Conference terri::cars_uk

Who is Jean Alessi's helmet a tribute to?

	A viking?

Well, seems like there's no market. Never mind!

For those that are interested, "Reginald Maudling" would have been close
enough!

:-)

Steve

RE: -.1

Thats even closer - want to set a question (I'll at least give it a go!)?


FYI, De Angelis was Alessi's boyhood hero. Makes you think - De Angelis only
died 3-4 years ago. My boyhood heros had names like  "Pryce", "Pace" and
"Nilsson" - they all died within the space of 18 months for various reasons -
Not suprisingly, I stopped supporting any particular driver...!

Steve

    I don't understand. Please explain what Reginald Slimeling has got to
    do with Jean Alesi or F1. 

      Who was the only person to win the world championship posthumously ?
    
    

    Jochen Rindt, the fastest ever Austrian.
    
    Now for my one.....
    
    Since shedding green & yellow for racing as a fast fag packet, Lotus
    reverted to British Racing Green for a season or so, who was their
    alcoholic sponsor?
    
    Paul

    
    Martini
    
    And which Oil Company then took over?
    
    Mark

    Essex
    
    And what colour were the cars then?
    
    Paul
    

Essex: Red, blue and silver?

    close enough, blue with red blue and sliver stripes,
    
    Over to you Steve

Following on the thread of Essex petroleum, name two individual sponsors who 
have had "significant legal problems" due to misunderstandings over their
financial affairs.

    
    Mr Van Rossem (?) of Onyx springs to mind, but I can't think of another
    of hand?
    
    Mark

    Probably not the ones but...
    
    Atlantic sponsoring Minardi for 500k and declaring 2m to the tax man
    
    "Mr Glas" disappearing with the money he owes Lamborghini for the
    Mexican car
    
    The guy who used to own Brabham last year but who's name escapes me.
    
    Paul

Lot of them, aren't there!?

Paul's given two answers, so over to you...

Steve

Onyx and Brabham have both had recent problems - I wasn't aware of Minardi.
The two most serious cases that I'm aware of were in the late 70's/early 80's 
- clues hidden in the note title, if you still want to follow it up!

    When Jody Scheckter wiped out a large part of the field at Silverstone
    in 197? (Sorry, can't remember the year, but the accident started at
    Woodcote, and Revson won), only one driver was hurt in the pile up. Who
    was he?
    
    Paul

It was in '73 (any marks there?!).

Don't know the driver though.  Peter Gethin?

    The year's OK, the driver was in a Surtees if memory serves me right,
    and his Christian name is a girls name in English - he was a Spaniard,
    
    Paul

	Andrea D'Adamich. Was it really as long ago as 73.

	Who drove the Brabham Fan car to victory, where and in what year?

	-John

Lauda blew the opposition off in Sweden, 1978.

Who was the only woman to score championship points in F1, and how many
did she amass?

Steve

    I think that it was Davina Galiza. I am not sure how many points she ot
    but it was in single figures.
    
    Jim

    I'll go for Lella Lombardi in a March, who scored 1 I think. The only
    woman ever to *win* an F1 race was Desiree Wilson at Brands.
    
    Galiza is back in motor sport BTW racing in Formula Renault I think.
    
    Paul
    
    ps sorry to switch Andrea'a nationality!
    

Jim, Wasn't Divina Galica. (BTW I see that she competes in the Trucks
competition as well).

It was Lella Lombardi, who scored � point in one rain shortened Grand Prix
(I think it was Austria '77?)

So, back to Paul...

P.S. Paul, I bet you're correct - for all I know de Adamich was Spanish.
I'd always assumed, without thinking, that he was Italian - so there was
no way I was going to get your question right!

    OK, here we go again,
    
    Who was the sponsor of Ronnie Peterson's March when he first drove in
    F1 and what were the base colours?
    
    Paul

Martini

Red white and blue (mostly red)

Even if it's wrong, here's my question:

Following the death of which driver (and a few financial difficulties), who did
Lancia sell their F1 project to in the 1950s?

OK, so that's two questions, but who cares?

Scott

    Sorry, wrong answer on ronnie, but Lancia sold out to Enzo Ferrari
    after the death of Alberto Ascari.
    
    Don't ya just hate a smart a*se!?!?
    
    Paul

Ronnie Peterson was sponsored by STP. The car was an orangy-red.

    Nope, sorry Steve, that was in his second season. The first season STP
    drivers were Amon & Andretti.
    
    Paul

As you're obviously old enough to remember the 1950s ;-) lets try going back a
bit further.

A motor race in France in 1895 is generally considered to be the "first"
official motor race.  Where exactly was it, who won it, in what car and at
what speed?  What was unusual about his co-driver?

Scott

    I can vaguely remember 1957, the world looks a big place from your
    pram! No idea on the question, but to kill off mine, Peterson raced for
    Antique Automobiles in a Yellow and Burgundy March 701.
    
    Paul
    

    Andrea de Adamich is definitely Italian. He currently writes in
    various magazines and he also covers motor racing for one of the
    Italian TV channels.

The driver killed driving a Lancia might have been Albert Ascari, around about
1954? Unfortunately a number of drivers got "topped" in the '50s - so, there's
quite a choice (especially when you haven't got a clue!).

Steve

P.S. The sponsors that did time that I was thinking of were:

- David Thieme, Essex Petroleum
- ? Ambrosio, founding sponsor of Arrows.

>>A motor race in France in 1895 is generally considered to be the "first"
>>official motor race.  Where exactly was it, who won it, in what car and at
>>what speed?  What was unusual about his co-driver?

Well, I'm not old enough to remember, but I'll try...


- Paris-Bordeaux 
- A. N. Other (Gordon Bennett :-) )
- Panhard
- 22 mph
- the co-driver was a dog

Any of them remotely close?!

Steve

A question to keep things flowing.

The name "ARROWS" is an acronym of the founding members names:

 A mbrosio
 R acing
 R **** (team manager)
 O **** (chief)
 W **** (designer)
 S **** (designer)

Fill in any two of the blank names

    R = Alan Rees (also part of mARch)
    O = Jackie Oliver (ex Lotus works driver, now with lots of yen from
                       Footwork)
    
    Don't know the WS bits though.
    
    Paul

Close enough.  The answers are:

The race was from Paris -> Bordeaux and back.  The winning car was a
Panhard-Levassor with a 1200cc 3.5HP Daimler engine.  The driver was Emile
Levassor, who averaged 14.9mph and won by six hours.

He was supposed to swap with his co-driver at Ruffec.  But he arrived so far
ahead of schedule that the co-driver was still asleep so Levassor carried on.
On the return leg he refused to swap with the co-driver and carried on to win
the race single-handed.  He drove continuously for over 48 hours, his longest
break being 22 minutes.

.36

Correct, the other two were Tony Southgate and Dave Waas.

Time for another obscure one from Mr. Pateman :-) !!??

Steve

    OK Steve, try this one.....
    
    Jack Brabham is not the only Australian GP driver to design & build his
    own car, who is the other one, and what controversial decision did he
    make in the 1989 season?
    
    Paul

	Ron Tauranac?

	-John

.39

Got me beat again!  I can only think of two Australian (non-Brabham dynasty)
drivers in the last 20 years - Alan Jones and Larry Perkins.

This is becoming like "What happened next?" on that TV sports program. Lets 
say that Jones designed and built a car for some local championship
(hill climb, touring cars?). As for the controversy, I can't even start to
guess!

Even though its not my turn!~

Which current F1 car has only 3 shock absorbers?

    The Australian is Tim Schenken, who built a Schenken-Ford. The
    controversy was that he was the clerk of the course at Adelaide who
    decided that the Ozzie GP should start (to quote Rolf Harris) in the
    wet.
    
    No idea on the shock absorbers, unless its the Williams .
    
    Paul
    

Not Williams.

Clue - which car "sits" in a strange way at the front? Now you know why!

Steve

    
    Tyrrell, Benetton? Citroen BX?
    
    Mark

    Tyrrell, AGS and Williams (only during testing at Silverstone, reverted
    to traditionnal system for the race) have 1 shock at the front end.

I assume the single front shock is mounted horizontally in the middle, connected
to both left and right suspension?

Scott

    re .47
    
    Correct for AGS and Williams. The Tyrrell 019 system is equivalent
    to a rigid axle (no roll).

    Which F1 car was referred to by some as the Lotus-Norton?

I was thinking of the Tyrrell, with its rather innovative setup. Didn't know
about AGS :-( ....

RE: -.1

Haven't a clue! How about the Lotus 72, when it switched from Gold Leaf to
JPS colours - if I remember correctly JPS were also sponsoring Norton
motor bikes at the same time?


Steve

This is a cheat question - saw it last night when I went to check up who did
get killed driving a Lancia (BTW, it was Ascari):

What did seven drivers, including Moss, Fangio, Ascari and Prince Behra
have in common at the 1954 British Grand Prix, held at Silverstone?

Another one, which anybody can have a go at...

What is the current F1 Ferrari's 0-200-0 m.p.h. time, to the nearest second?

Either they went to Silverstone, and the race was somewhere else, or they went
somewhere else and the race was at Silverstone?

Another wild guess...

Scott

    re .51 
    
    Prince Behra ?       Don't you mean Prince Bira (got confused with
                         Jean Behra probably)  ?

     Re -1 .... wasn't the chappies name Birabongse from (I think Siam)?
    
    I have vague recollections of pictures of Prince Whatever-his-name-was
    in the Boy's Own Annual circa nineteen-fifty-several along with the
    other heroes of the time.

re: .51  They all tied for the fastest lap of the race and came away with
1/7th of a point for their efforts.

Next Question:  What was the Prince's full name?


Dave

    answer in -1?
    

in .55 you got half his name (his first actually), but what was his last name?

Dave

re. 51

>>  Prince Behra ?       Don't you mean Prince Bira (got confused with
>>                       Jean Behra probably)  ?

No Patrick, it's worse than that! I meant Behra, and added "Prince" on the
front because I thought that I was being a know-it-all. At least I've been
educated... :-)

And no, I haven't a clue what Bira's full name was (won't even try).

As pointed out, the seven drivers shared fastest lap and got 1/7th point
each. This was later discarded from the final championship scores.

Steve

P.S. Any offers on the 0-200-0 m.p.h. time?

200-0 should take them 3 or 4 seconds, 0-200, maybe 15-18?  Total would then
be 18-22 seconds?

Dave

>>P.S. Any offers on the 0-200-0 m.p.h. time?

Slightly more than the same statistic for a McLaren?

-John

15 seconds??

Good enough - 14 seconds! Which is pretty darned quick...! 

If I remember correctly, that's the same time it took a Cobra 427 to do
the 0-100-0 test.

Any takers for "B Bira's" real full name?

Dave

Since no takers to .49, answer is the late 50s Vanwall.

Engine design based on Manx Norton, chassis sorted by Colin Chapman 
(ealiest example of "handling by Lotus" consultancy).

Another: Which two cars incorporated wood in their chassis construction?
(One F1, one F2).

This quiz seems to have gone dead so I'll answer my last question.

>Which two cars incorporated wood in their chassis construction?
>(One F1, one F2).

F1 - the first F1 Maclaren (M1?); it had a monocoque made from Mallite, an 
aluminium/balsa sandwich material.

F2 - Protos, in late 60s. Think it had a wooden monocoque a la Marcos.

Another: which F1 car had 3 brakes?

the 1960 BRM had a single rear brake on the transmission.

'B Bira's full name was Prince Birabongse Bhanuban.

Next: When was the last time that three cars of the same make scored points by
finishing in the top 6 of a GP?  Full details please (cars, drivers, ect).

Dave

BRM are the last team I can think of that had a squadron of cars (though
McLaren, Ferrari etc. very occasionally run a third for promising "guest"
drivers).

How about Monza, '72  Gethin, Ganley and ? in P153's?

Or alternatively, can we have a (cryptic) clue?!

My question - what did BRM make after the very wondeful Louis Stanley pulled
them out of F1?�

Steve

� My last update was circa 1980, so they may have gone down the tubes since 
then!

 .68 says same make rather than same team I notice. I would guess therefore
 that it'll date from the days of the Lotus 49 say when other teams could
 buy cars. 

 -John

    It happened in '66 at Mexico: Coopers of Surtees, Ginther and Bonnier
    It happened in '68 at Mexico: Lotus' of Hill, Oliver and Siffert
    It happened in '69 at Monaco: Lotus' of Hill, Siffert and Attwood
    It happened again in '69 at Watkins Glen: Brabhams of Courage, Brabham
    and Moser.....
    
    but the last time it happened was in '70....  does that help?
    
    Dave

RE: -.1 Not really!

Marches of Stewart, Peterson and ?

    Re -1
    
    Andretti? or Siffert?
    
    Paul

    Marches of Stewart (Tyrell entered), Amon and Siffert (both factory
    entered) ???
    
    Brands Hatch?

Since I'll be away on training all next week and you just about got it right:

'70 Spa, Marches of Stewart (1st), Andretti (3rd) and Servoz-Gavin (6th).

Dave

    When, where, how did HONDA enter F1 ?

	Honda in F1 ? Mexican GP mumble years ago, possibly driven by Richie
	Ginther. Colour was predominantly white.

	Or this could be a complete load of ..... !
	
	Gordon. 

    Close !
    
    August 1964, Nurburgring, German F1 GP, driver Ronnie Bucknum.
    Engine was a transverse mounted V12 (1500cc !)
                                                 
    Who (when & where) won the 1st F1 GP in a Honda ?

    Don't know where or when but my guess is that it would have been John
    Surtees around the Jim Clark era.
    
    Garry 

    John Surtees won at Monza in '67, after Clark ran out of fuel and he
    jumped out of Brabham's slipstream (Clark had already caught up a full
    lap after a puncture!)
    
    However, didn't Ritchie Ginther win a race before that? The Mexican or
    US in around 64/5 seems to be sitting in the darker sewers of my brain
    somewhere.
    
    Paul

Ginther won in Mexico in 1965, first Honda F1 win and only win for Ritchie.

Dave

    re .81
    
    What can I add ? Perfect job Dave.
    
    Interesting point about Honda in the 1500cc F1 class : when F1 changed
    to the higher capacity engines, Honda moved to F2 and scored MANY
    wins (particularly with Brabham). 

What three types of cars did Nelson Piquet drive in his first year in F1?

Dave

RE: -.1

An old McLaren, an Ensign, and a Brabham ?

BTW - answer to the question I placed a few weeks ago.

	When BRM quit F1, they concentrated on converting 40 ton lorries
into emergency operating theatres.

re: .84

You got it right!

(proper order was Ensign, McLaren and then Brabham if you really care...)

Dave

Finally got something right!

Trying not to be too obtuse with my question:

Where was Williams first Grand Prix victory, and what was special about the
victory celebrations?

Cheers

Steve

	How about -  Britain late 70's, Reggazoni and they had to
	drink orange juice to keep the Saudi sponsors happy.

	Well it must be close to this!

	-John

RE: -.1

Exactly right - British GP '79, Regazzoni, and the celebrations were as you
describe. 

    WHAT TYRE COMPANY ALSO WON ITS FIRST GP AT THE SAME TIME HONDA DID IT.
    
    MARK
    
     HI. JUST FELL INTO THISD NOTE.
    

Must have been Goodyear? I seem to remember a poster with the 'first century'
of Goodyear winners on it.

Who was the 100th Goodyear winner, and where (if you saw the same poster as me
then you'll know!)

Steve

BTW: RE .81 and Ginter's only GP victory. I remember reading an article where
several drivers of the time really rated Ginter, and reckoned that he should
have won many more races. His weakness, apparently, was that he was always
looking for a technological edge. He just couldn't leave his car alone - and
consequently it usually broke!

Steve

P.S. Who is almost universally acclaimed as the best driver never to win a GP
_(and no, I don't mean Andrea de Cesaris!)

      re:92
     If its a driver who never won a championship points F1 race it might
    be Chris Amon. I can't think of anyone who had worse luck or timing for
    changing teams.
    
    Mark
    
       OF all the world driving champions who has the best winning
    percentage. number of wins over starts?
    

    Juan Manuel Fangio - beats this Senna guy into a cocked hat...
    
    Colin

    Thanks for the good word Colin. How about a rathole stir-up comparison
    of Fangio, Moss, Clark?
    
    russ

RE. 92,
	Yes, I was thinking of Chris Amon as well - his luck was unbelievable.
I reckon the best example was when he was leading the French Grand Prix (Magny
Cours?), and ripped the tear away strip off the top of his visor - only the
whole lot came away. He had to pit to replace it....

    The following article appeared in the September, 1990 issue of the 
    Steeringwheel, the monthly publication of the Atlanta Region of the 
    SCCA.  It is reproduced here without permission (why break tradition??)

                     An Interview With Jody Scheckter
                              by Tony Fasola

    Jody Scheckter, one of the finest race car drivers in contemporary 
times, is South African by birth.  The son of a Renault car dealer, Jody 
started racing in the late sixties.  First Saloon cars, then on to Formula 
Fords.  In 1970 Jody won the "Driver to Europe" award for a season in 
Formula Ford in England.  In less than two years, he had his first Formula 
One ride with McLaren and was on his way.  Jody also competed in the United 
States in both Can-Am and F5000, becoming champion in 1974.  Rides with 
Tyrrell and Walter Wolf led to Ferrari in 1979 where he became World 
Champion in a close battle with teammate Gilles Villeneuve.  After a dismal 
1980 season, Jody retired from racing to Monaco until his founding of 
F.A.T.S. (Firearm Training Systems) here in Atlanta.

    As Jody is an intense, serious individual, I found it hard editing the 
following material to reasonable length from our two hour interview.  There 
was such a wealth of racing experience and stories waiting to be told!

    What brought you to Atlanta and why?  I'm in Norcross actually, about 
ten years ago now.  I started in Hilton Head Island.  Atlanta was the 
nearest technical place.  I mainly do business but I have a little farm now 
and I'm either there or the office.

    Explain F.A.T.S.?  I was living in Monaco and saw an advertisement for 
a British system in firearm training.  It was interactive - where you would 
shoot a live round into a piece of paper.  I did some research in America 
and found out that law enforcement agencies here would buy a similar modern 
system.  I had no background in firearms, law enforcement or electronics - 
all important to the system.

    I find it amazing that you have totally walked away from racing.  Was 
it easy?  Yes, actually.  I watch it on TV and that's about the extent of 
it now.

    Do you follow Formula 1?  Yes, I enjoy it more now then I did four 
years ago.  I don't know why.

    Was it a burn out?  I suppose I had done everything I had wanted to do 
in the sport, so it didn't mean much to win the World Championship 
twice...I knew I could do it.  I had done it...What was I going to gain and 
what was I going to lose.  That's how I look at life.

    Tell me about your start in South Africa in the late 60's?  I did two 
years of little bikes - 50 cc's and then on to karts, followed by Saloon 
cars.

    You went from Formula Ford to Formula One in two years.  Was it easier 
then?  It was never easy.  The guys coming up like I was had sponsors from 
their originating countries.  Anybody who was any good went to England to 
do Formula Ford.  I think it's changing now.  They do Formula 3 or what 
have you.  One guy from New Zealand was that country's champion and so 
forth.  I suppose I did it with no real sponsorship.  I was lucky, really.  
I used to go quickly, quickly.

    Were your aspirations always Formula One?  I always said, I'm here now.  
I knew I was good at what I was doing and I always asked myself what else 
is there, and that was usually the next Formula class car.

    Your first Formula One race was with McLaren as a perk to continue 
driving their Formula 2 car.  What was that like?  That first race was at 
Watkins Glen (1972) and I qualified third in my first Formula One race.  I 
spun off but still got the fastest race lap.  McLaren gave me the third car 
because they knew Lotus and Surtees had contacted me to drive for them.  I 
forced the issue and I stayed with McLaren.

    In 1974 you left McLaren for Ken Tyrrell.  What was the man and the 
team like?  Tough.  He lived in the Jackie Stewart era.  He was behind the 
times; he was left behind technologically.  He was a tough team manager.  
If someone died in the road in front of you, he'd make you drive harder and 
faster and not worry about anything else.  Formula One is wartime and you 
have to do some of that but for me, he took it too far.

    Is Formula One less competitive now as opposed to when you drove?  I 
don't think so.  Now there is so much more money then in those days that I 
think it's gone to a different level.

    McLaren was strong into the Indianapolis 500 when you drove for them.  
Why not Indy?  What meant anything to me was Formula 1.  In East London, 
South Africa they used to have the Formula 1 Grand Prix there.  Grand Prix 
racing was important to me and anything else would have been a distraction.

    Who were your favorite drivers, maybe who you respected the most?  
Lauda a Prost.  Prost was at an early stage, he certainly showed the signs, 
though I thought he would never be as good as he is.  They were both 
professionals.  You knew going into a corner that they wouldn't do 
something stupid.

    Who were the worst?  Jarier.  There were some drivers you knew would do 
something stupid and that was quite a bunch of them.  Then (J.P.) Jarier 
was even worse that that because you didn't know if he would do something 
stupid or not.  Clay Regazzoni used to always block in traffic.  I almost 
had a standing fight with him out of my car.  He would slow down on the 
track.  I hated that.  Lauda would make a point to get out of the way; he 
was a complete professional and wouldn't want to win a race that way.

    What about the revolutionary Tyrrell P34 six wheel car?  It was quite 
nice to drive.  It was a badly designed car.  You would have to align the 
wheels after every session.  My favorite racing story involves that car in 
Sweden.  The car had a little window because you couldn't see the smaller 
front wheels.  I looked down and noticed one of the wheels was gone.  So I 
drove into the pits and didn't say a word.  The designer, Derrick Gardner, 
started asking me about the car.  The mechanics were circulating around and 
nobody noticed the missing wheel.

    What about Wolf Racing in 1977?  I was ready to leave Tyrrell.  I felt 
we had gone as far as we could I talked to Ferrari, but didn't want to be 
number two to Lauda.  Walter Wolf was this man who had all this money and 
delivered what he promised.  We put it together and won first time out in 
Argentina in 1977.

    After two seasons with Wolf, you joined Ferrari and had Gilles 
Villeneuve as teammate.  What was he like?  We were good friends.  I tried 
to be that way with all my different teammates.  There no use fighting in 
your own house.  I signed with Ferrari as the number one driver, then he 
won South Africa and then Long Beach.  Regardless, I found myself getting 
into the number two position.  It was tough.  Gilles then made some 
mistakes.  I gained some points and then won the World Championship.  The 
next year, we lost ground while everyone else moved forward.  It was a 
dismal year and then I retired.

    Any racing since 1980?  The Mercedes 190 touring car and three practice 
laps in the Fabcar at Road Atlanta a couple years ago.

    What was that like?  I stopped after three laps because there was no 
point to it.  I don't like to do things in life with no point to them.  It 
did get my mind going though.  Days later I would wake up in the middle of 
the night and say if I had just adjusted the brakes or done this or done 
that.  The other thing I notices was that I couldn't drive slowly.  Once I 
got in, I was flat out.  I hadn't changed that much.  I used to go very 
fast quickly.  Within twenty laps at any new race track I was as fast as I 
was ever going to get.  I was also very competitive in changing race 
conditions, dry to wet, you know.

    Would you race today?  Maybe Saloon cars.  TransAm looked fun to me.

    Are you recognized here in Atlanta?  No, not at all.  People might 
recognize the name, but they don't associate me with the name.  Here at 
work they only know because people have mentioned it.  In Europe, the 
recognition is deteriorating, it's been ten years, you know.

    Do you miss the adulation?  Some parts of it.  Unlike many, I didn't 
need it.  That's where some get in trouble.  It's dangerous when you need 
that to survive.  They go back to racing to stay in the spotlight.  I've 
always downplayed the championship.  I never used it in business.  In fact, 
I hide it.

    Is the racing still fun today?  All sports have changed, the money, the 
business.  I don't knock that.  It was fun getting somewhere, whether it 
was building a Saloon car or getting into Formula One.  But it was hard 
work.  In Formula One the first year was fun, but then it was hard work.  I 
enjoyed it.  The fun was getting there.  I get more enjoyment in winning 
than anything else.  Achieving it.  As they say - the fun is getting there, 
not being there.

RE: -.1

You got half of my question (.91) correct - it was Scheckter who won the
100th Goodyear. Grand Prix at Monaco.

Steve :-)

Which British F1 car manufacturers, Lotus excepted, also made production
road-going sports cars?

    
    Lola?
    
    Mark

    Nope. T70 was a sports racing car, not a normal road car.

Matra is French, right?
(I just wanted to rule that one out...)

Dave

I would have to say Lister for one.

Dave

RE: Production cars.

McLaren are about to. Cooper? 

	Are we concerned specifically with Formula 1 here or are also looking
	back to "Grand Prix" cars, pre and post war ? 

	Gordon

Re last few:

- Matra is French
- Lister and Cooper: no, they made racing and sports-racing cars only
- McLaren: as you say, not yet.
- F1 or "Grand Prix" cars generally: I mean specifically F1.

    Aston Martin ran an F1 car briefly.
    
    Paul

    Aston Martin - yes!  DBR4 2.5litre front-engined, raced in '59/60
    seasons.
    
    That leaves one other I can think of.

    As I got the Aston one right........
    
    
    There is a link between the youngest ever GP driver and today's F1
    season - what is it?
    
    Paul

    
    He didn't drive in it! :^)
    
    Wasn't Thackwell the youngest driver? I think he drove a Tyrrell, but
    I can't think what connection you're looking for.
    
    Mark

    Was the youngest GP driver one of the Rodriguez brothers? Forget
    whether Ricardo or Pedro was the younger, but one of them was racing
    sports cars at 15.  Can't see the link though - unless there's a pair
    of brothers (eg Brabham) racing in F1 this season?

What about Frazer?

Dave

    Interleaved questions here. 
    
    Back to previous one - Ginetta & Chevron, no. Ginetta never made an F1
    car, and Chevron never made a real production road (as opposed to
    sports-racing) car. 
    
    Frazer (assuming you mean Frazer Nash) - no, they made an F2 car but
    not F1. 

    Clue: most significant year for the maker in question (and arguably
    for Britain in F1) was '55.

Let's see, British F1 cars....Connaught, BRM, Vanwall...but I don't think
any of them made road cars...Elva did but I don't think they had a F1 car.

	How about a wild guess, ERA.  British hope in the 50s in F1 and
	producer of the ERA mini conversion.  A bit lame, but I live in
	hope.

    Youngest driver and relation to current season.
    
     The run the Mexican GP on a track that is named after Rodreguez.
    
    I think.
    
    Mark
    
    And was Chris Amon Correct.
    
    And can anyone tell me which note is the F1  note.
    

The Rodriguez circuit has been used for a number of years...

If all the others have failed, how about Furgeson?

Dave

    Mark
    
    Thackwell was right - now what about the connection? There is also a
    link to the British Honda CRX Challenge.
    
    Paul

Checking my Georgano I read that Connaught made an Alta engined sports car.
Also Cooper made a sports car in the late 1940s using a 500cc engine. 
There are pictures of both in the book. 

I had never heard of the Cooper car so nor did the picture ring any bells.
May have been a one off.

In checking the 1955 season in an old book I have called something like
'British Green 1946-1956', Connaught seems to be the only choice for that
year. Mercedes was the dominant player that year.

    Significance of '55 was Syracuse GP win by Tony Brooks in a Connaught,
    which was first post-war GP victory by a British car.

    As I'm off for a couple of weeks, I'll answer my Mark Thackwell
    question - 
    
    His sister Lisa ahs just got engaged to David Brabham, she also
    competes in the Honda CRX Challenge.
    
    Paul

    
    Damn, I knew Lisa raced in the CRX challenge, but I didn't know
    she was engaged to David Brabham. Oh well.
    
    Mark
    
    PS Who's Mark Thackwell?
    
    

    Whoops,
    
    Pre holiday brain fade!
    
    Paul 

       WHO WAS THE ONLY DRIVER TO WIN THE BIG tHREE.
    
       THE World Driving Title
    
       The Indy 500
    
       and The 24 hrs of Lemans
    
         If anyone is out there anymore ?
    
    Mark

    
    The one and only.
    
    Graham Hill.

    .128 is correct it was Graham Hill, he won the World Driving Title
    twice in 1962 for BRM, and in 1968 for Lotus, the 500 in 1966 in a Lola ,
    and I believe also still the only driver to win Indy in his first attempt,
    and Not sure of the year I think it may have been 1972 or 73 he won Lemans
    in a Matra with Henri Pescirola (sp).   
    
      Does anyone know what Graham Purchased with the prize money he received
    for winning the 1966 Indy 500 ?  
    
    
    Mark
    

    
    Nit picking I know, but there must have been one other driver who won
    it at his first attempt. The bloke who won it the first time it was
    run! 
    
    Anyway, can anyone name the 2 6 wheeler cars which actually were used
    in Grand Prix racing (I think 1 was only practiced) and what was
    different about their format?
    
    Mark
    
    PS No, what did Graham Hill buy? A plane?

Hill was about 23 when he started racing - he was relatively old.

What did Hill buy with his prize money? No idea.

The two cars were the Tyrrell Project 34 (4 wheels at front), and the unwieldy
Robin Herd March, which had 4 driven wheels at the back.

    
    Not the March. 
    
    Perhaps I was misleading. I meant practiced for a Grand Prix rather
    than TESTED.
    
    Keep 'em coming.
    
    Mark

Seeing we're on Graham Hill...

At one motor race - there was confusion as to whether he had won or not.
When a journalist suggested to him that he might have been second, he said
"No way mate - I drank the milk".

Who can explain the significance of this, and say which race it was?

Steve

    That race must have been the Indy 500.  Tradition is that the winner
    gets a drink of milk.  Part of the farm ethic of the midwest U.S.
    
    
    Jeff

RE: .135

Yes, that's right. The winner of the '500 gets (or got) to drink a glass of
milk. Apparently there was a mix up concerning a yellow flag towards the end of
the race. Some people thought that Clark might have won. However Hill was in
no doubt - he had already accepted the victor's garland and drink - hence the 
comment.

    I watched the race on TV (French TV showed the Indy 500 almost entirely
    a few times, good old days !) and I was also very confused when
    they declared Graham Hill winner. I also thought Jimmy Clark passed
    the finish line one lap (almost) ahead of Graham. Anyway ...

    But what did he buy with the money ???
    
    Intrigued.

    re: earlier 'triple crown' answers
    
    Didn't Mario Andretti also win all 3 at different times in his career?
    
    	-Barry-
    

    
    Mario hasn't won Le Mans (to my knowledge).
    
    Mark

    
    Graham Hill Did Buy a plane. With his winnings from Indy.
    
    Mark
    

� Graham Hill Did Buy a plane. With his winnings from Indy...

Didn't do him a lot of good :-(

Jc

And when he crashed it he was flying without a certificate of airworthiness
and no insurance  :-(  :-(

       In the 70's there was another driver who showed promise, but like
    G. Hill also lost his life in a plane crash. Who was he ?
    
       Two G.P. pilots that managed to surive long racing careers only to
    lose their lives in street car accidents.  Who were they ?
    
    
    Mark
       

Carlos Pace died in aplane crash shortly (a few days) after Tom Pryce was 
killed on the track by a marshall running across the track with a fire bottle.
The marshall died too.

Road accidents:

Mike Hawthorn ('58), don't know the other

Dave

    
    Didn't Tim Brice (?) also die in the crash with Graham Hill?
    
    Mike Hailwood also died in a road crash (but does he count?).
    
    Mark

RE: -.1

Tony Brise died with Graham Hill - he was very promising; Charlie Pace (who had
just got his pilots licence) was an established star.

Can't think of any other drivers who lost their lives on the open road.

    Pace, and Brise, are both acceptable for question one,and Hawthorne,
    and Mike (THE BIKE), Hailwood are the two drivers that retired and
    lost their lives in street cars.
    
    
    Question:
    
     What feature Motion picture did carlos Pace appear in during his 
    Brabham Alfa days.
    
    
    Mark
    
     Has anyone in Europe ever seen the Documentry F1 Film called One By
    One. Filmed during the 1971-72 season. I've alway wished I could find
    it on video!
     

RE: -.1

A totally uninspiring flick called "Bobby Deerfield", starring Al Pacino.

    re. .150
       Correct, and I aggree not a great flick.
    
    Mark
    

I'm on holiday for the rest of the week, so I'll put in an easy one - so that
someone else can keep things going.

Earlier this season, Andrea de Cesaris took over the unenviable record of most
Grand Prix starts without a victory (130+). He inherited the mantle from
someone who Niki Lauda once described as the most dangerous, unpredictable
backmarker to pass. Who is this unhappy gentleman?

Steve

P.S. Just thought of another driver that died in an aeroplane crash. Aerobatics
job over the south coast of England. Anyone remember him - Nike Lauda was very
uncomplementary about him as well!

    
    Ricardo Patrese and David Purley.
    
    Mark

Purley - yes.
Patrese - no. He won for Brabham at Monaco in the early '80s - this was well
before his 130th Grand Prix.

    
    Brambilla?
    
    Mark

RE: -.1

Vittorio got 4� points for victory in the rain shortened 1975 Austrian
Grand Prix. The one where Lauda (the Asutrian national hero) was slipping 
backwards through the field, and the race was stopped whilst he was still in 
6th place....

Brambilla was so ecstatic, that upon crossing the finishing line he raised his 
arm in a victory salute - lost control of the March, and totally it into
the barrier.

Sums his career up really - an unbelievably brave driver; however a few
sandwiches short of a picnic in the strategic thinking area of driving...

Steve

How about JP Jarier?

Dave

RE: -.1

Correct - "Jumpers" Jarier - the fastest and most unpredictable of a long line
of mobile chicanes. He led several races in his career - and deserved to win
a Grand Prix or two. However the car never quite held together - he can best
be described as "mechanically unsympathetic".

Over to Dave for a question...


Steve

Which two drivers have won a GP at all three sites for the British GP, Aintree,
Silverstone and Brands Hatch?

Dave

    re: 159
    
    Sterling Moss, Jim Clark I'll quess.
    
    Mark
    

You got one right, but I won't tell you which one.......

Dave

I'd guess that Stirling Moss was the correct one out of two - Aintree was 
probably a bit before Clark's heyday.

The other driver? I'll try Fangio.

Steve

I reckon it was Clark - Brands being too late for Moss.  Other one is
probably Jack Brabham. 

.163 got it right, Clark and Brabham.  Your turn.....

Dave

When Pironi tragically lost his life power boating in 1988, his girlfriend was
pregnant - she later gave birth to twins.

The question is, what are the twins christian names?

:-)

Steve

    Didier & Gilles?
    
    Paul

       Who was one of Frank Williams First F1 drivers. I very fast fellow
    who had a name to match?
    
    Mark
    

    Piers Courage, one of the last "gentlemen" drivers, who died 20 years
    ago this summer?
    
    Paul

      .168 is correct I really liked Courage as well, he gave some good
    performances when frank Still had the Brabham. 
    
    Mark
    

    Paul
    
    I believe Courage died more than 20 years ago.
    
    It was he that the Beatles referred to in 'A Day in the Life'.
       ' ......he blew his mind out in a car.......'
    
    That record was on the Pepper album, in 1967.
    
    Of course, I might be absolutely wrong.
    
    Graham

I always thought the "he" in "he blew his mind out in a car" was James Dean..?

Puzzled of DECPark

    Sorry, it was 1970, Dutch GP. Don't know who the Beatles were singing
    about.
    
    Now a poser from me....
    
    
    The Australian GP is the 500th since the "official" championship
    started. Two countries have had races every year - which two?
    
    Paul

June 21, 1970 at Zandvoort.  So who were the Beatles refering to in that song??

Dave

So we've determined when Piers died and probably the Beatles song too...

I would come up with three countries as the answer to .172:

England (no doubt here)
US (if you count the Indy 500 races, which I'm sure are counted in the 500 GP 
    number)
Italy (if you count the '60 European GP at Monza and the '80 Imola GP)

Dave

RE: .166

Didier and Gilles it was.

    Re -2
    
    Italy and GB it is. The US counts too if you count Indy 500.
    
    Re -1
    
    Its a great shame that Villeneuve and Pironi never made up after the
    race - still, maybe the new Didier & Gilles will also be Ferrari team
    mates one day.
    
    In response to that one -
    
    Who was the last private owner to win a Grand Prix (Ken Tyrrell doesn't
    count), where was it, who was driving, and what was the car?

RE: -.1 (last privateer)

The last that I can think of is Lord Hesketh, James Hunt in the 308, at
Zandvoort 1975?

    He was a privateer, but I'd forgotten him!
    
    I'll give you that one but can anyone think of the one before that?
    
    Paul

      Rob Walker and Jo Siffert was his driver won the 1968 British Gp at
    Brands and almost the Mexican GP of the same year.
    
    Mark
    

Okay, now that we've had 2 or 3 questions answered correctly, who gets to pose
the next one?

Dave

    re -2
    
    Yup, that's the one I was thinking of. Somehow I never thought of Lord
    Hesketh as a privateer.
    
    Over to you
    
    Paul

    <<< Note 1178.181 by OASS::BURDEN_D "He's no fun, he fell right over" >>>
>>Okay, now that we've had 2 or 3 questions answered correctly, who gets to pose
>>the next one?

I'd suggest Dave Burden!

In the meantime, to keep things ticking over.

Name a four wheel drive F1 car which was this team's only F1 car design, and
which never made it to the start line.

Steve

    It was a racing driver who killed himself in a crash in Chelsea.  He
    was in line for a large wonger, being an heir to, I believe, the Guiness
    fortune.
    
    He had been a friend of John Lennon.
    
    Piers Courage came to mind, but the mists of time have probably
    confused me.  How about Innes Ireland?  When did he die?
    
    Graham
    

    Re -2
    
    I nominate the Cosworth F1 car, a really radical design!
    
    Re -1
    
    Innes Ireland had just celebrated his 60th birthday, so he would be a
    bit miffed to be dead!
    
    Next question -
    
    
    Jackie Stewart used an unusual helmet in the 1970 season before
    switching to a full face. What sort of transport was it designed for?
    
    Paul

Jackie Stewart's helmet.

Was it one of those aerodynamic ones used by racing cyclists?

    
    Or was it a riding hat?
    
    Bill.

    Na - neither of you got it right, keep guessing
    
    Paul

It had a tartan strip around it.

RE: .185

I was thinking of the Cosworth - is it still on display at Donnington?

Helmet - no idea. How about a military airforce bone-dome?

Steve

    I'll give you that one Steve.
    
    It was a military helicopter pilot's helmet, with sort of blisters over
    the ears.
    
    Over to you.
    
    Paul
    
    ps  The Cossie is still at Donington
    
    

Just finished talking to someone, done a 'next unseen' - and Paul's answered
already!

OK. Why was the non-championship F1 race at Brands Hatch in 1976 blacked out by
the BBC? And who won?

Steve

Did it have to do with the disqualification of Hunt in one of the races that
year (I think it was '76)?

I would guess that Hunt won it as well...

Dave

I can't remember who won, but I think the blackout was caused by LRC sponsoring
the "small family car"

Dick

Dick got the answer right - the BBC pulled out because of the Durex Surtees
TS16. Alan jones went on to win the race in this car.

To answer -.2, Hunt was indeed disqualified from G.P.s in 1976 - twice in fact!

The first race was the Spanish G.P. - a race he had won on the track. His car
was measured as being 216 cm wide, when the limit is 215 cm. An interesting
fact is that the McLaren M23 had, after 3 successful seasons become illegal,
due to the 'floppier' sidewalls on the  new construction tyres. In fact, if he
had driven, AT SPEED, between 2 posts 215 cm apart, he would have passed the
scrutineers' test because the forces involved would tend to pull the tyre wall
in. Later he was re-instated.

The second race was the British G.P, where the two Ferraris (Lauda and
Regazzoni) were on the front row. From the start Regazzoni dived down the
inside of Lauda (not totally disimilar to the carnage of aa couple of weeks
ago), and, in the ensuing mess the race was stopped. Regazzoni and Hunt stopped
before the race was red flagged and had to take out the T-cars.

During the re-run, Regazzoni quickly retired, and Lauda and Hunt were left
swapping fastest lap - which was incredibly much faster than the pole position
time. Ultimately Hunt won.

Ferrari got Hunt disqualified on the grounds that his car was not running when
the red flag was shown - this despite the fact that their cars had caused the
accident and that Regazzoni was in the same position (though his car didn't
finish). Hunt did not get re-instated for this one. 

Cheers

Steve

Which make of F1 car has used the most types (from different mfgs) of engines 
throughout their history?  Also, list the engines.

Dave

RE: -.1

Lets try Lotus.

In descending order ('cos that easier!):

- Lamborghini
- Judd
- Honda
- Renault
- Cosworth
- Coventry Climax
- (Did they try that horrendous BRM H16 thing?)
- Others...!

Steve

    I think Brabham at least matches Lotus.
    
    In descending order:
    
    - Yamaha (next year)
    - Judd
    - BMW
    - Alfa Romeo
    - Cosworth
    - Repco
    - BRM (I think - private entries in '61-65 formula)
    - Coventry Climax
    
    This gives one more than Lotus if you allow for next year.
    
    Maclaren and Cooper come pretty close - 5 for Maclaren, and probably
    6 for Cooper: BRM/Maserati/Climax/*Ferrari/*Bristol/Alta [*private
    entries - maybe there were some others of these in which case Cooper
    probably wins overall]
    
    Re .-1, Lotus did use BRM in F1 - the Tasman 2-litre V8, and the 3
    litre H16 with which they managed to win a GP ('66 USA?) which is more
    than can be said of BRM's own team using the same engine. 

    Which car [single answer] was:
    - the last successful supercharged (as opposed to turbocharged) car in
      F1? 
    - the last but one successful car in F1 with a straight eight engine?
    - not designed for F1?

DOOZER::PENNEY won by covering all the bases.  Lotus had 7 as did Brabham (8
including next year).  Cooper has 9:

Bristol
Alta
Aston Martin
Climax
Maserati
OSCA
Ferrari
Ford
BRM


Dave

    re: Penny question
    
    I'll try Bugatti in the 1930's. Not sure of the 'type' but 55 comes to
    mind.
    
    re: Cooper
    
    I know they used the Bristol engine in FII but wasn't aware they used
    in in FI. Live ans learn.

Re .-1, 

Not '30s Bugatti. "F1" didn't exist then...

    
    The Lancia (dunno what it was called) that was taken over by the Ferrari
    team?
    
    Mark

RE .198

A mid-50's Mercedes originally developed for sports car racing?

    re: Mercedes
    
    I don't think they were supercharged.
    
    Maserati 4CLTs were supercharged but they were 4 cylinders. How about Alfa?
    Type 158? (although I can't think of what the original use was)

    Yes - Alfa 158/159, the original "Alfetta".
    
    Introduced in 1938 for voiturette racing, the then-equivalent of F2,
    which it dominated for 2 seasons. Used again after the war to win
    the F1 championship in '50 & 51.

    1.5 litre, 430 bhp in final form (on extremely narrow tyres!). Also did
    only 1.5 mpg which is why Ferrari eventually beat it with a less
    powerful 4.5 litre unspercharged V12. 

    Your turn...    

    re: my turn
    
    My F1 knowledge is pretty limited so I'll pass for now. If I think of
    something maybe I'll jump in later.

Dick passed his turn so I'll jump in with a quick one:

What number was on the last F1 car John Watson raced? (and was he wearing a
beard at the time? :-))

Dave

    re: 207  McLaren  and nor Beard
     Mark
    

    	I'm not 100%, but I believe Wattie drove a Toleman in 1985, car
    number 20, without a beard.

Well Watson chopped his beard off for Roger Penske in the '76 Austrian G.P.
He was driving No. 27, if memory serves me right. He hasn't had a beard since
then - right?!

:-)

Steve

It was a McLaren, but what number was on it?

Dave

RE: -1

Oh, without a beard!

Was it #11 or #12? Lets see, Lauda had the other seat.... errr...

I reckon #11 - 'cos he was team leader over de Cesaris in the previous season,
and team leaders usually have the lowest number. BTW, was his last win that
stunning victory in Detroit?
        
Steve
who_was_hacked_off_with_F1_from_82_to_86_(thankyou_JMB_and_Ecclestone)_and_
doesn't_know_much_about_it

       I believe it was #11
    
    Mark
    
    

I'll leave it open until tomorrow morning and then I'll reveal the answer if
no one gets it.

Dave

    	Well, you said it was a McLaren, probably an MP4/1C, back when
    Piquet was champ.  So, since Lauda won the next year for McLaren and
    Brabham got numbers 7-8, Wattie probably drove (fifty-fifty chance)
    number 8.

    
    Watson had a one off drive (at Brands Hatch?) the year after he was
    unceremoniously 'dumped' by McLaren. I think the other driver was
    injured (not that I can remember who it was. Prost/Rosberg perhaps?)
    and Wattie got the drive. 
    
    I can't answer the number query, but I hope this clue helps.
    
    Mark

He didn't get the number, but got the correct circumstances.  He substituted
for Lauda at Brands Hatch in '85.  The car carried the number 1.

Over to you Mark....

Dave

ps - your guess is as good as mine about his beard

    
    Well what about my old question.
    
    Other than March, Tyrrell and Williams which team used a 6 wheeled car 
    and how was it different to the others?
    
    Mark

They had one with 'duelies' on the back, but I don't believe it ever raced.

Dave

Yes Ferrari did have a muletta with 6 wheels/tyres the same size, and the four
rear ones on the same axle. It didn't race...

    
    That's it.
    
    Used in a tyre testing session.
    
    Take it away.
    
    Mark

    What was the last F1 car to race with an air-cooled engine? 
    (2 answers, 1 facetious)

    Richard

I'd say the facetious answer is the Brabham 'fan' car of the late '70s.

Dave

    I forgot the Brabham! - but reckon it's wrong, unless it had a separate
    a/c engine to drive the fan (like a Chapparal did) - in which case
    congrats. Nice answer anyway. 

    Assuming cars with only 1 engine there are still 2 answers to go, 1
    being so facetious that it will probably ensure my forced ejection from
    this conference. 

Hmm, I seem to remember that someone (Archie Butterworth?) converted a
Styer engine and used it in a racing car...but I don't remember it being
a F1 car. It was called an AJB?

But then of course Porsche ran F1 didn't they?  Sort of backenders before they
became more competative.

    I thought Senna ran an air-cooled engine in his car earlier this year,
    since he got a holed radiator - which was not even noticed at pit-stop !
    
    That facetious enough ?
    
    J.R.

Here'a a three part question

Who won the 1970 British Grand Prix at Brands Hatch, who would have won this
race if it hadn't been for his race mechanic, and who was the mechanic?

(Hint for part 3 - he's quite well known now)

Dick

    	I would guess that Stewart won, but Brabham would hav won if not
    for his mechanic, Denis Hulme . . . ??
    

Brabham was the driver who should have won, but why didn't he, who screwed up,
and who won.

    I know we're in to multi-processing, but this topic d'narf get
    confusing.
    
    Does anyone else feel it would be nice to get one question answered
    before we move on to the next three ..........??
    
    JK
    
    (There, that's *another* question to be getting on with!!)

.225: 

>Hmm, I seem to remember that someone (Archie Butterworth?) converted a
>Styer engine and used it in a racing car...but I don't remember it being
>a F1 car. It was called an AJB? 

Elva-AJB, sports car. 

>But then of course Porsche ran F1 didn't they? 

Yes but they (63/64) weren't the last with an a/c engine. The one I'm after
was 1968 and a disaster. Manufacturer is currently extremely active and
successful in F1. 

.226: McHonda with holed rad. is not nearly facetious enough. 

I'll put the answers in tomorrow if noone gets them, if only to stop
multiprocessing. 

- Richard 

    	Upon further rumination, and believe me, my memory of these things
    stinks, I think it was Rindt that won at Brands in '70, and Brabham ran
    out of fuel.  His mechanic was Frank Williams??  [guessed on the Rindt
    and Williams part, but I'm pretty sure he ran out of fuel]

    Re British GP 1970
    
    The winner was Jochen Rindt in the Lotus 72. He passed Sir Jack Brabham
    on the last lap when Black Jack ran out of fuel. The reason he ran out
    was that his engine was running too rich, which also explained his
    performance advantage over Rindt. It was set rich in the morning
    because it wouldn't fire properly.
    
    The lowly mechanic who did this, and forgot to re-set it was..........
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Ron Dennis. 
    
    Now we know why team perfect are the way they are!
    
    
    Anyway, another teaser...
    
    I should save this for Valentine's Day but never mind. Name two drivers
    with amorous surnames who ran private entries in the 60's. One was S
    African and one American. And, what did one of them nearly do in 1967?
    
    Paul

Re .-1

Spot on Paul, but did you know that in post race scrutineering the rear aerofoil
on Rindt's Lotus was deemed to be too high and Brabham was then declared the 
winner. An irate Colin Chapman then took the scutineers to the cleaners and got
the decision reversed, when he pointed out that the bends in the aerofoil 
support arms were part of the design.

Dick

    
    Re last few.
    
    Are you sure it was the British GP?
    
    I seem to remember it being a street circuit, probably Monaco .....

    Re -2
    
    Yup, I did honest guv! But it wasn't in the question ;->
    
    re -1
    
    No, in Monaco, Brabham drove into the barrier on the last corner when
    being harried by Rindt to let Jochen win in the ancient Lotus 49.
    
    Paul

    Cheek! It's all in my head!!!
    
    
    
    After reading 40 Years of The Bitish GP! Excellent book, but not in the
    office.
    
    Seriously, I knew the basics, but not the Ron Dennis bit. I started
    getting seriously interested in F1 around 1967, and after Jimmy Clark
    died, Rindt was my next hero. I never could warm to Graham Hill for
    some reason.
    
    After Rindt died, it went -
    
    Peterson
    Andretti & Villeneuve
    Rosberg
    Mansell
    Senna
    
    Lots of Lotus stars there until the "prostituted" themselves by signing
    Piquet & Naka.
    
    Paul

    Last air-cooled engine to race in F1 (answer 1): Honda R302, 3litre V8.
    Appeared I think once only, at '68 French GP at Rouen. Crashed and
    killed its driver Jo Schlesser - mechanical failure was suspected. Car
    reckoned to have been a real dog. Rumour has it that air-cooling was
    insisted on by Honda's marketing dept to boost image of the weird Honda
    1300 saloon which was also air-cooled. 
    
    (answer 2): every car at the last GP, or indeed any other GP.
    
    New qn: 
    3� American engines (that I can think of) have competed in F1; which?
    

3� American engines.

Several when the 3 litre regulations came in (1967?) because there were not
many engines available - Lotus had exclusive use of the new Cosworth.

Now, being a mere youngster at the time, I don't know this period very well;
however lets go for:

Buick
Chevrolet
Repco

The Scarab F1 used a Meyer-Drake/Offenhauser design I believe. And then
maybe they designed their own?

At one time (maybe still) the Indy 500 was a F1 event wasn't it? If so
a number of US engines were used....Ford being one that stands out.

    .240: Repco - yes, this is the "�" (Buick bottom-end with Australian
    Repco top-end) 
    
    .241: Scarab - yes.

    Indy 500 is excluded. It was never exactly a F1 event - construction
    regs. being very different - though it did count to world (drivers'?)
    championship for a number of years. 

    Is the third the Weslake?
    
    BTW - anybody any ideas on the amorously named drivers?
    
    Paul

    Not Weslake - that was British designed & built. 
    
    Amorous names - I'd say John Love (S.African, campaigned a 2.7 litre
    Cooper Climax 4cyl, then I think the ex-Rob Walker Lotus 49) and Pete
    Lovely (US - also Lotus)
    
    What one of them nearly did in '67 - John Love nearly won S.African GP?
    (can't remember the circumstances) 

    Re -1
    
    Right on all counts. Love was leading the S A GP until a few laps
    before the end when he had to dive in for fuel.
    
    Paul

    The other 2 American engines in F1: one was in a Mclaren, the other
    in a Lotus.

    re: last
    
    McLaren ran a destroked Indy Ford V-8 sometime in the 1960s, and the
    Lotus 56B 4WD turbine car ran a Pratt & Whitney gas turbine (last
    appearance in 1972).

Was that the de-stroked Indy engine or something else?

Dave

    George Allegrazza got it - destroked Indy V8 and Pratt & Whitney
    gas turbine.  Over to you...

>At one time (maybe still) the Indy 500 was a F1 event wasn't it? If so
>a number of US engines were used....Ford being one that stands out.
                                       ^
                                       |

Don't I get partial credit...:-)

    Reckon you already got partial credit for the Scarab, but have some
    more by all means!
    
    Quickie - what engine design feature did the Scarab share with the
    1954/55 Mercedes W196 F1 car of a few years earlier - and with a
    current Italian motorcycle? 

    Desmodromic (sp) valve-gear ?

To keep things ticking over....

What do Australians call the sand traps/run-off areas that are present at most
corners of modern day circuits?

Steve :-)

Apparently Australians call the sand traps/run-off areas "Kitty litter" -
who but an Oz could have come up with that one!

Steve

but just useless trivia:

I've done a quick calculation of all the points won by drivers in the following
makes of cars.  If you'd like to see other teams, let me know and I'll add them
up as well---

Ferrari		2607.27
McLaren		1634.5
Lotus		1504
Brabham		990
Williams	927.5
Tyrrell		669

(Ferrari's total includes 128.5 points from Lancia)

Dave

    Re .257
    
�Ferrari		2607.27
    
    How did they get the .27 points ?
    
    Or the .77 (less the xxx.5 from Lancia)
    
    J.R.

It was from a few 1/3rd, 1/7th and a 9/14th of a point from the 50's.  Don't
remember the exact combination, but I can look it up if you really want to know.

Dave

    Re .259    Ferrari xxx.77
    
�It was from a few 1/3rd, 1/7th and a 9/14th of a point from the 50's.
    
    Not too interested in the exact combination, but intrigued as to
    how points were awarded to result in these fractions...

    	In the 1980's there were two "photo" finishes, where a matter of
    inches was the margin of victory.  In three parts, which races were
    these (year and venue), who were the drivers involved (winner and
    almost-winner), and what did the winning drivers (and for that matter
    the runners-up) have in common???

In the 50's (and into the 60's?) they awared 1 point for Pole Position and 1
point for the fastest lap.  They also allowed drivers to share cars and split
the points.

The 1/3rd came from one race (Brazil?) where everyone but Juan Manuel Fangio
was swapping cars and 2nd through 4th, I think, all had 3 drivers by the end of
the race.  To complicate matters, some drivers drove more than one car so 
received partial points for more than one position!

The 1/7th came from one race where 7 drivers all tied for the fastest lap so
they all got 1/7th of a point.

Dave

Can't recall all the information, but I believe one of the races was the '82
Austrian GP where de Angelis won.  I can't recall the 2nd place driver, but it
was Elio's first GP win.

Then again I may be all wrong....

Dave

In Austria de Angelis just beat Rosberg. I guess that what they had in common
was that they were both looking for their first Grand Prix victory - I think
Rosberg got his first a few weeks later at Dijon and went onto be World
Champion.

The other Grand Prix? Dunno. How about the '82 Spanish Grand Prix train - with
Villeneuve defending his lead to the end despite having 5 cars in a procession
on his tail?

Steve

P.S. The 1/7th point for fastest lap at a British G.P. was discussed earlier in
this note.

    	Re:-1
    	I forgot about Villeneuve, although he was clearly blocking for the
    lead in that race, and it wasn't quite a "photo" finish.  The face that
    Rosberg and de Angelis were looking for their first win is something
    shared by winner and runner up, but I'm looking for what the two
    winners had in common, and what the two runners-up had in common.
    	de Angelis' win over Rosberg in Austria '82 is correct, though.

    How about Mansell and Senna at Jerez in 87 or 86? Mansell beat Senna by
    a whisker.
    
    I reckon it was Mansell and de Angelis's first wins, and Senna and
    Rosberg both won championships. Also, Lotus and Williams were the cars
    both times.
    
    Paul

    	Elio de Angelis won by a few inches over Keke Rosberg in Austria,
    1982, and Ayrton Senna won by a similar margin over Nigel Mansell in
    Spain, 1986.  Both de Angelis and Senna, the winners, won for Team
    Lotus, while Rosberg and Mansell nearly won for Williams. 
    Incidentally, Austria was de Angelis' first win, his only other career
    victory being in San Marino, 1985 when Prost was DQ'ed.  Mansell's
    first win was in 1985 at the European Grand Prix at Brands Hatch.
    	Next question please . . .

    How about this Italian GP at Monza where a pack of about 6 cars led   
    most of the race and only in the final lap (at the end of the
    Parabolica) could we see the eventual winner : Peter Gethin. I seem to
    remember that the first 3 cars passed the finish line in the same half
    second. That was in the 70's.
    
    Back to next question.

    I suppose its sort of down to me..........
    
    
    OK, 
    
    After his great years with Lotus, Mario Andretti drove for two more F1
    teams in the mid 80s. One on a regular basis and one on a 1-off. 
    
    Who were the teams, and why did he come back for the one off?
    
    Paul 

    	Andretti won the title with Lotus in 1978, then suffered through
    two dismal seasons with Lotus, eventually leaving and being replaced by
    Nigel Mansell.  Andretti drove for Alfa-Romeo for a couple years, then
    I guess he called it quits after some more uncompetitive seasons.
    	Andretti later drove a one-off for Ferrari in 1982, the year when
    the team won the constructors' championship, but failed to clinch the
    drivers title because the points were divided among Villeneuve, who
    died mid-season, Pironi, who suffered career-ending injuries a few
    races later, and Tambay, who stepped in for the last few races and
    gained enough points to clinch the constructors' title.  I believe that
    Andretti drove in Monza, put the car on pole, and was a big crowd
    favorite.  Unfortunately, I can't remember if he won.

    Re -1
    
    Yup - on the money. Andretti had various problems in the race and ended
    up finishing 4th if memory serves.
    
    Over to you.
    
    Paul

    	In the past few years, a Honda hat-trick has been nothing uncommon. 
    Which races (year and venue) formed the first turbo-age Honda
    hat-trick, and what was/were the driver(s)/team(s) combination(s)?

If you mean a Hat Trick to be three wins in a row, then it was the last three
races of '85.  Mansell won 2 and Rosberg won one.  Piquet also won the first
race of '86, so that really makes 4 in a row for the Williams-Honda.

Dave

    	Forgot about Piquet; I guess the first race of the next season
    doesn't count, but the Mansell/Mansell/Rosberg Hat Trick was the first
    demonstration of the Honda juggernaut.  Anyway, you have the floor. . .

During the 70's there were 6 teams that carried the name of a Formula 1 driver.
Only 5 of these had the namesake as driver.  Who were they?

Dave

    Brabham, Hill, McLaren, Schenken, Surtees and  ????????????
    
    
    Paul

    	McLaren, Brabham, Embassy-Hill (Graham's team), Surtees, and . . .
    Fittipaldi!

McLaren, Brabham and Surtees

Hill didn't drive his own car (corrections accepted of course)
Fittipaldi was too late, didn't appear until '80.

Still missing two....

Dave

    	McLaren, Brabham, Surtees, + Amon, and Merzario?

    McLaren, brabham, Hill, Surtees, Amon and I'd go with Fittipaldi too. I
    thought it was before 1980 (it was certainly a Copasucar before then!)
    I'm also convinced on the Schenken one, although I was in too late last
    night to check.
    
    If none of the above is the last one, it must be a privateer from the
    early 70s, someone like Silvio Moser or Francois Migault?
    
    Paul

It was Copersucar in the '70s and then Fittipaldi in '80, that was the 'trick'
part of the answer.

I might have done a diservice by stating there were only 5 teams, when there
could have been more.  Anyway, according to my list we have 4 of the 5 so far:

Brabham
McLaren
Surtees
Merzario

A hint for the last one.  It was around during the same time the Merzario was
racing.

Dave

       Was it the LEC Team, not sure how to spell it but it was an English based
    team and I'm not sure they even raced it or not.
    
    Mark
    

Since I'm leaving ina few hours and we have tomorrow and Friday off, I'll
give the answers and let someone else post the next question.

The 5 are (according to me, anyway)

Brabham
McLaren
Surtees
Merzario
Rebaque

It's either over to Paul P or Yen for the next question...

Dave

    I'll pitch in with a couple of questions on Gilles the magnificent -
    
    When was his first GP?
    What car drive?
    What other type of motor sport was he a champion at?
    What musical instrument could he play?
    
    Paul

    
    He was snowmobile champion. I think he first raced for Mclaren (but 
    whoever it was rated Tambay higher).
    
    This guy always struck me as seriously unbalanced and I was not
    surprised that he eventually had the BIG accident that he seemed
    certain to have. His on-track behaviour made Senna look like a boy-
    scout (anyone remember the time he drove a car crabwards around
    the track dropping debris everywhere?). 
    
    Maybe if Senna dies he'll be adored, but then maybe Gilles was just
    a much nicer person.
    
    Mark

    Mark,
    
    2 bits right, yes it was a McLaren, and he was a snowmobile champ, but
    where did he race the McLaren and what did he play :-)
    
    Reading his biography, he wasn't unbalanced, just in love with speed.
    One thing to remember about a lot of his antics is that he was in a pig
    of a car - the early turbo Ferrari. He also had the "winning is the
    only thing" mentality, that meant he lost a few races. However he did
    play the dutiful teammate to Schekter when he had to. That's what upset
    him most about Pironi at Zolder, and caused him to do one fast lap too
    many. That was the last day I cried about a racing driver.
    
    Paul

He drove a McLaren at the British G.P. in '78
I didn't know he played a muscial instrument. Piano?

Steve 

    Got the race right but not the instrument - its a bit odd-ball to suit
    his character.
    
    Paul

    To close this one - Gilles was a trumpet player, and one was placed on
    his coffin.
    
    Over to you Steve.
    
    Paul

What is the connection between UK politics and the tricky corner at the end of
the main straight at Zandvoort, Holland - where there were many "incidents" in 
F1 over the years?

Is the corner called 'leadership challenge' by any chance?

Steve ;^)

    
    
    Nobody has turned left in eleven years.

	Tarzan ! A well known bend for sliding off when it got a bit too sandy
	at Zandvoort. Tarzan, aka Michael Heseltine, known for causing Mrs T.
	to have a 'power slide' straight into the weeds !

	Gordon

RE: -.1

I forgot that we had Dutchmen reading this notesconference :-).

You got it one - your turn...

Steve

    	In the last two decades, two Ferrari drivers have won on their
    maiden drive.  Who are they, and what races were they?

    Andretti at Kyamlami in 197? 
    Mansell at Rio in '89.
    
    How's that?
    
    Paul

Mansell yes, Andretti no. The other was Baghetti, '61 or '62 - Monza?

It was also Baghetti's first ever F1 drive; nonone has ever matched this.

Here's one - name a couple of factory entered F1 cars that doubled as 2 
seater sports cars. Actually one was a F2 car, but ran in the early 50s 
in the period when there was no suport for the official F1 regs. and GP 
races ran to F2.

- Richard

    	RE -2 Baghetti did win, as did Mansell on their first Ferrari
    drives.  ANDRETTI ALSO WON ON HIS FIRST FERRARI DRIVE, at Kyalami,
    1971.  So that actually makes three drivers who will become immortal to
    the tifosi.
        RE -1 The postwar mercedes W196 was transoformed with some
    modification into the mighty 300 SLR gullwing.  Does this count?

Re -.1, not Mercedes W196/300SLR. The ones I'm looking for actually doubled 
as F1 and sports cars, being convertible between the two.  One was English, 
the other French.

English = Connaught?

Frence = Talbot?

(I could look them up but it's more fun to guess.)

Connaught no, Talbot yes - the 4� litre Talbot-Lago that was in both F1 
and sports car races (winning Le Mans in 1950).

The British car was one in which Stirling Moss had some early success. 

Vanwall?

Dave

    	Aston-Martin ran some F2 events with modified sports cars, I think. 
    They may have run a handful of F1 races, too, back when F2 cars
    regularly ran in F1 races, maybe???

Well I'll take another stab at it:

HMW - although I don't recall Sterling driving them

By any wild chance was the Cooper Monaco ever used in F1??? I only say that
because I saw Moss's personal Monaco (and him driving it as well) last year
at a vintage race in Ct.

Pretty sure Moss did race one successfully (British Empire Trophy '51?). 

Your turn Dick, let's have a nice one on which to ponder over Christmas..

    Lets start this up again now the season is off and running....
    
    Which drivers born since 1960 have won Grands Prix?
    
    Paul

    Ayrton Senna ?

    Yup, Ayrton it is. Unbelievable but true.
    
    Now a question from Patrick?
    
    Paul

In which year did four people of the same nationality finish in the first four
places in the world championship, and what nationality were they?

    1966?
    
    Surtees
    Clark
    Hill
    Stewart
    
    All British
    
    How about that?
    
    Paul

Yeah, but when he lost, I bet Stewart was 'Scottish'....:-)

Dave

.311

Paul,
	Didn't Surtees win in '64 and Clark in '66? Anyway, the year is wrong -
though the nationality is correct. The were quite a few Antipodeans (Brabham,
Hulme et al) mixing it at the top of the championship.

From memory, the results for 1958 were:

1 Hawthorn
2 Moss
3 Salvadori
4 ?-Evans (I always forget the first part of this guys double barrelled 
           surname!)
5= Collins 
5= ?Some American with a German name 


NEXT QUESTION THEN:

What was the fourth placed finisher's surname (and no, I don't have the
answer!)

Steve

Actually, the top 5 in '58 were British:

Hawthorn
Moss
Brooks
Salvadori
Collins
Schell (USA)

Stuart Lewis-Evans was 9th that year

More Trivia, but not questions:

Senna broke the 400 point barrier with his win in Brazil.  Only Lauda, Piquet
and Prost have more.

8 drivers have won the first two races of the season (prior to 1991), the first
4 times this happened (53, 54, 57 and 69) the driver went on to be Champion.
The last 4 times it happened (73, 76, 79 and 82) the driver did not become
Champion.  Does the cycle go back to winning the Championship or does Senna
continue the current trend?

Also, when Senna won his first GP, Prost had 17 victories.  Now, Senna has won
28, but Prost has 44.  Guess what?  We're back to where we started, Prost is
still 16 wins ahead of Senna!

Dave

RE: -.1

Thanks for the CORRECT answer - proves that I don't look things up in a book!
Though I'm sure Schell and Collins were 5th equal...!

Cheers

Steve

    ... Senna is now No 2 in terms of GP wins. Jackie Stewart is now 3rd
    with 27.

    For those of you who obtained this weeks Autosport(11-apr),there is a
    picture on [ages 56/57 of some of the worlds top drivers,in "cartoon"
    form.I have been trying to identify all the faces in the picture,can
    soem of you help fill in the gaps and also put me right on the ones I
    may have wrong.
    Here goes starting from the front row left,the driver sitting on the
    wheel of the Alfa:
    
    Alan Jones;?;man in car ?;john surtees;giles villeneuve;nelson
    piquet;?;graham hill;michele alboreto;nigel mansell.
    
    middle row:
    
    gerhard berger;niki lauda;jochen rindt;alain prost;?;emerson
    fittipaldi;john watson;clay regazzoni;keke rosberg;carlos reuteman;jim
    clark;ayrton senna;ronnie peterson;mike hawthorn;mario andretti.
    
    back row:
    
    jodie scheckter(sp.);mike hailwood;ricardo patrese;denny hulme;?;didier
    pironi ?;rene arnoux;jaques laffite;bruce mcclaren ?;jack brabham
    ?;phil hill ?;?;jackie ickyx;james hunt;jackie stewart.
    
    
    
    steve.

RE: -.1

Any chance of 'scanning' the page and maiking it available across the net -
then I could join in!

Cheers

Steve

    re .last
    Steve,if you send me a mail with an explanation of how to scan it I
    will see what I can do.I'm not sure how it will turn out as the picture
    is in colour and many parts of it are dark.
    
    For anyone who has seen the picture,I assume Fangio must be there
    somewhere but I cannot figure out which driver it is.
    
    
    steve
    

    Try faxing the page to me at [33]92956922. I'll see if I can be of any
    help.

If you haven't got a scanner then fax me aswell on
010 41 38 220 500 (Digital Neuchatel).

Cheers

Steve

    Well I found a scanner,and after recieving some quick tuition I scanned
    the pages.I'm afraid it comes out as a black smudge,so I doubt if a fax
    is going to be any different.
    I have not brought the magazine into work today,but I will try again
    tommorow.
    
    steve
    

    Steve
    
    Some thoughts to fill in the blanks/???
    
    Front row:	next to Alan Jones - Bruce Mclaren; man in car - Jack
                Brabham; next to Nelson Piquet - Fangio.
    
    Middle row: next to Alain Prost - Farina?
    
    Back Row:   next to Denny Hulme - Phil Hill; next to Jaques Lafitte -
    		Stirling Moss; then Ascari; Phil Collins & Dan Gurney.
    
    
    Sue
    
    (Info courtesy of my other half)
    

    re.last
    
    Sue,
    thanks for the input,I think that just about completes the picture.Is
    your "other half" certain about Ascari ?,and is the driver next to him
    meant to be Peter Collins rather than Phil.
    
    cheers
    	steve
    

    Steve
    
    You're probably right about it being 'Peter' Collins - Mike's not too
    good with first names.
    
    He also thinks your Mike Hailwood should be Chris Amon (?sp).
    
    Ascari was a definite, though.
    
    Cheers
    Sue
    

Ascari for Ferrari - '53
Fangio for Maserati/Mercedes - '54
Fangio for Maserati - '57

No one has won the first 4 races of the season......yet.....

Dave

ps - these facts discount the Indy 500. If you insist on including them, then
Senna is the first driver to win the first 3 races of any season.

I have just managed to find 3 more Tamiya 1/12th scale kits:

Wolf-Ford WR-1
Texaco Marlboro McLaren-Ford M23
Tyrrell-Ford 002 (1971 season)


Obviously the Wolf with have Scheckter's name on it.  The Tyrrell can be either
Stewart or Cevert and the McLaren can be either Hulme or Fittipaldi.

I'm leaning towards Stewart for the Tyrrell, but am open to input on the 
McLaren.

Dave

    
    Got to be Fittipaldi. He got the results.
    
    Mark

    Don't you mean 1/20 ?
    
    My McLaren has got Hunt's name on it. Sentiment I suppose.
    
    Have you seen the latest new ones?
    
    Williams FW13
    McHonda MP4/6
    Leyton House CG901
    Two versions of the Ferrari 641
    
    Beatties in London have also resurrected the John Surtess F1 Honda in
    1/12 scale, to go with the Scheckter/Villeneuve Ferrari, the Renault
    RE20 and the Lotus 78.
    
    Paul

    Re -1 
    
    I haven't got the Tyrrell, thought you meant the 6 wheeler 'til I
    re-read the note. I've never seen the 002.
    
    Paul

    re.last few
    Have you made the Leyton House or seen a completed kit.I was wondering
    what the quality and detail of the kit was like.
    thanks
    steve
    

    
    How easy is it to get the right colour paint?
    
    It could be a nice little sideline for the Leyton House team. 
    
    Mark

    The quality of the 1/20 series generally is very good. I haven't
    tackled the L/House yet, as I've still got a Brabham BT50 and a McLaren
    MP4/? (Honda turbo) to finish. The LH is moulded in Miami Blue so it
    may be possible to just varnish the raw plastic. However, I would guess
    that Tamiya have brought out a paint to match.
    
    BTW
    
    Have you seen the 1/12 Tyrrell 020 High Nose, and the 1/12 Ferrari 641?
    
    Paul

I haven't done any of the 1/20th kits, just concentrating on the large 1/12ths.

My collection so far is:

Honda RA-273 (Surtees)
Lotus-Ford 49 (Clark)
Matra MS-11 (Beltoise)
Ferrari 312B (Ickx)
Tyrrell-Ford 002 (Stewart?)
Texaco Marlboro McLaren-Ford M23 (?)
Ferrari 312T (Lauda)
Tyrrell-Ford P34 (Scheckter)
Lotus-Ford 78 (Andretti)
Wolf-Ford WR-1 (Scheckter)
Ferrari 312T4 (Villeneuve)
Renault RE-20 (Jabouille)

Marlboro McLaren-TAG MP4/2C (Prost) - Protar kit
Ferrari 126CK (Villeneuve) - Protar kit

Still missing:

Lotus-Ford 49B
Lotus-Ford 72D
Yardley McLaren-Ford M23
Martini Brabham-Ford BT44B
Ferrari 641? (hasn't hit the US quite yet)

I'll also keep a look out for the new Tyrrell, but having just bought 3 kits,
it'll be tough to get the okay to buy any more very soon......

Dave

This list is complete (including Spa) up to Gerhard Berger and then only 
lists the current F1 drivers.  If you are interested in the entire list, 
send me mail.

                           Career Points Totals:

Name		     Wins  Points     WDC Points Dropped
Alain Prost           44   660.5      ***    27

Nelson Piquet         23   478        ***     4
Ayrton Senna          32   458        **      4
Niki Lauda	      25   420.5      ***

Jackie Stewart	      27   360	      **      1
Nigel Mansell         19   337                2
Carlos Reutemann      12   310	      	     12

Graham Hill	      14   289	      **     23
Emerson Fittipaldi    14   281	      **
Juan Manuel Fangio    24   279.64     *****  32.64
Jimmy Clark	      25   274	      **     19
Jack Brabham	      14   261	      ***     8
Jody Scheckter	      10   255	      *	      9
Denis Hulme	      8	   248	      *
Jacques Laffite	      6	   228	  
Clay Regazzoni	      5	   212	      	      3
Alan Jones	      12   206	      *	      7
Ronnie Peterson	      10   206

Gerhard Berger        5	   190    
Riccardo Patrese      4	   183    
Michele Alboreto      5	   179.5  
Thierry Boutsen	      2	   130    
Stefan Johansson            88    
Andrea de Cesaris     	    50    
Jean Al�si            	    35    
Ivan Capelli          	    28    
Saturo Nakajima	            16    
Stefano Modena        	    15    
Roberto Moreno        	    15    
Mauricio Gugelmin     	    10    
Pierluigi Martini     	     9    
Aguri Suzuki                 7    
Alex Caffi            	     6    
Eric Bernard	      	     6	  
Jirki Jarvelehto             4    
Bertrand Gachot	             4    
Emmanuele Pirro	             3    
Mika Hakkinen                2    
Olivier Grouillard    	     1    
Gabriele Tarquini            1    
Julian Bailey                1    
Martin Blundell	             1    

RE: -.1

Didn't Stewart get 3 World Championships - '69, '71 and '73 ?

Cheers

Steve

    re .335   Good job !
    
    Same comment as .336 (Stewart) + I did not see Rosberg (1 WDC title)

    And I though Mansell was on 20 wins ? But what do I know ??? 8-)

Jackie Stewart does have 3 titles, '69, '71 and '73.  I've corrected my list.

Rosberg does have 1 title, 5 wins, but only 159.5 points so he was chopped from 
the list I included.

Here are all of Nigel's wins:

1985:
Sep 22	Brands Hatch, GP of Europe    Mansell	1     Williams-Honda FW10B
Oct 19	Kyalami, South Africa	      Mansell	2     Williams-Honda FW10B

1986:
May 25	Spa-Francorchamps, Belgium    Mansell	3     Williams-Honda FW11
Jun 15	Montreal, Canada	      Mansell	4     Williams-Honda FW11
Jul 6	Dijon, France		      Mansell	5     Williams-Honda FW11
Jul 13	Brands Hatch, England	      Mansell   6     Williams-Honda FW11
Sep 21	Estoril, Portugal	      Mansell	7     Williams-Honda FW11

1987:
May 3	Imola, San Marino	      Mansell	8     Williams-Honda FW11B
Jul 5	Le Castellet, France	      Mansell	9     Williams-Honda FW11B
Jul 12	Silverstone, England	      Mansell	10    Williams-Honda FW11B
Aug 16	Zeltweg, Austria	      Mansell	11    Williams-Honda FW11B
Sep 27	Jerez, Spain		      Mansell	12    Williams-Honda FW11B
Oct 18	Mexico City, Mexico	      Mansell	13    Williams-Honda FW11B

1989:
Mar 26	Jacarapagua, Brazil	      Mansell	14    Ferrari 640
Aug 13	Budapest, Hungary	      Mansell	15    Ferrari 640

1990:
Sep 23	Estoril, Portugal	      Mansell	16    Ferrari 641

1991:
Jul 7	Magny Cours, France	      Mansell	17    Williams-Renault FW14
Jul 14	Silverstone, England	      Mansell	18    Williams-Renault FW14
Jul 28	Hockenheim, Germany	      Mansell	19    Williams-Renault FW14

    Martin Blundell!!!!
    
    Must be some kind of mixture of Mark Blundell and Martin Brundle ... or
    had you just run out of room?? 8^)))))))))))

    
    
    	NO ....... What about the obvious. the Honda mechanic
    
    
    	Martin Blundle and Mark Blundell
    
    
    	Garry

When was the last time a 'great' F1 driver came onto the scene?  In looking
for that answer I decided to see how the best came to be:

The first column is the driver, the second is how many years in F1 before he
scored points and the third is when he scored his first win.  It's tough
to say, by looking at lists of numbers, when a driver is tagged as being 
a future star, but maybe winning is a good indication.

Stewart	   1st	1st
McLaren	   1st	1st
Ickx	   1st	2nd
Prost	   1st	2nd
Senna	   1st	2nd
Fittipaldi 1st	2nd
Clark	   1st	3rd
Surtees	   1st	4th
Rindt	   1st	5th
Hulme	   1st	5th
Patrese	   1st	6th

Villenueve 2nd	2nd
Piquet	   2nd	3rd
Lauda	   2nd	3rd
Andretti   2nd	4th
Peterson   2nd	4th
G Hill	   2nd	4th
Mansell	   2nd	6th

Moss	   3rd	5th

Brabham    4th	5th

Dave

    re. .342:
    
    Interesting info, but statistics don't say enough. Villenueve was
    obviously a slow learner. And that Moss guy took a long time to learn 
    how to drive an F1 car.   ;-)
    
    russ

What happened to Fangio???

    
    I think he's retired.
    
    Mark

	What do Rindt,Andretti and Rosberg have in common apart from
	being champions that is.

    
    They are all foreigners !!!!

    
    Their names all begin with R, except Andretti's! :^)
    
    Mark

.346

Umm... They didn't win another Grand Prix after their championship winning
season?

    
        They all have 's' in their name except for Rindt and Andretti.

    
    none of them come from Bradford.

    
    Re .351
    
    Are you SURE?
    
    Mark

    
    Re:-1
    
    Ok, they all wouldn't admit from coming from Bradford.

    Would *anyone* admit to coming from Bradford !
    
    
    Jerome who isn't from Bradford.

    Lotus ?

	Some ingenious tries. Would you believe that the one about 
	coming from Bradford is much the closest!.

	Must be trickier than I thought. Here's a better clue.

	.347 and .353 combined could lead to the answer

    
    They're all foreigners who won't admit to coming from Bradford?
    
    Mark

    re .342
    
    Thanks for the list Dave. I thought Fittipaldi was the quickest from
    start to winning a F1 GP. Didn't he win his 4th GP or someting close ?
    

    
    They're all foreigners in their own lands.
    
    i.e. They are all nationals of countries other than that which they
    were born in.
    
    Mark
    
    PS Add Cliff Richard to the list?

    
>>    They're all foreigners in their own lands.
    
>>    i.e. They are all nationals of countries other than that which they
>>    were born in.
    

	Correct, and well done that man.

	Andretti (USA) was born in Italy and moved to US as a teenager.
	Rindt (Austria) was born in Germany went to Austria age 1.
	Rosberg (Finland) was born in Sweden but became a naturalised Finn.


	-John

    How many GPs were won by cars powered by the 3 litre Cosworth-Ford V8?
    
    Also, when were the first and last victories, in which cars, driven by
    whom? 

Victory #1: 1967 Zandvort, Jimmy Clark, Lotus 49
Victory $155: 1983 Detroit, Michele Alboreto, Tyrrell 011


Non-F1 question, but when did Ford make a V12 for racing?  (this may not be
a very good question because I just recently saw a picture of one, so they
may have made others in previous years....)

Dave

Ford? V12? For racing? 

The only thing that comes to mind is some Lincoln V12s that were used in
early Allards. Not really racing engines at all.

    
    They built one for sportscar racing back in the early 70s, I believe.
    
    For the GT70?
    
    Mark

Yup, for sportscars in the early 70's.  I'm not sure what cars it
was put in though.

Dave

    This isn't really a trivia questions but I do beleive it's F1 related
    and it is a question so here it is.
    
    I was looking through some pictures I took in the back garages of a
    Ferrari dealership I visited recently and I noticed an a F1 car (I
    think it's F1 and not Indy) in the background.  It's number 23 it has
    Alfa Romeo on the side and is painted in the Marlboro red and white. 
    It has a rear wing that I would put it as a mid seventies car.  the
    driver name looks like BRUNO with a small green then red stripe just
    after the name.  Does anybody out there no when it raced and if it ever
    won anything.  It also has Goodyear tires and an AGIP sticker on the
    back wing (That sticker is why I'm almost positive it's an F1 car).
    
    Any info out there.
    Regards,
    JP

It was an Alfa-Romeo F1 car, from either '80, '81 or '82.  Bruno
Giacomelli was the driver and from the name you can guess he is
Italian and hence the Italian flag after his name (red and green stripe.)

In 1980 Bruno finished 5th in the Argentine and German GPs
In 1981 he finished 4th in the Canadian and 3rd at Las Vegas
In 1982 he finished 5th in the German GP

The only model numbers I have are for the '82 season and Alfa 
started with the 179D, then used the 181 and 182.  Bruno had the 182 model
for his 5th place finish in Germany that year.

But I'm not sure if the Alfas carried the Marlboro colors all those years
or not.  That may further narrow the search.

Dave

BTW - Protar makes 1/12th scale kits of the Alfa F1 cars if you're
interested.......

    Chaps,
    
    Here's another one to which I don't know the answer, but it must
    certainly belong in a trivia section.
    
    Why does the steering wheel on an F1 car need to vibrate so much. It
    must be a major contributor to driver fatigue and hence must cost time,
    etc.
    
    a) Is it caused by the road surface, air turbulence, or something else?
    
    b) is it made worse by lack of suspension, or something else?
    
    c) What are the real problems with putting a damper in the steering
    mechanisms?
    
    Peter
    
    
    

    
    If you mean it turns a lot, that is due to the directness of the 
    steering, which makes the car a lot easier to accurately position.
    If you mean that it shakes, that is due to the fact that there is
    virtually no 'suspension' in an F1 car due to the very hard springs
    which make the whole car ride very roughly.
    
    Presumably damping the steering would reduce the ability to place
    the car accurately on the track and would greatly reduce the 'feel'
    transmitted to the driver.
    
    Mark

    Mark,
    
    I did mean the vibration
    
    I don't really see how having your fillings shaken out gives optimum
    'feel' 
    
    ;-:
    
    Peter.

    
    Well you certainly 'feel'!!!! :^)
    
    The vibration is because of the stiffness of the suspension, which is
    'neccesary' to keep the aerodynamic aids at a consistent(ish) angle of
    attack and to ensure that roll, which somehow (no doubt someone else
    can explain exactly the problem) affects the handling and grip, is
    absent.
    
    When F1 designers design cars the last consideration is the driver's
    comfort :^)
    
    Mark

    Dave, re:368.
    
    Were the F1 cars back in the early 80's the same as they are now in
    respect to putting the entire name on their F1 cars.  If this is so
    Then only the last name could be Bruno.  Not doubting your answer, just
    wondering why they would only have his first name on the car.
    
    Regards,
    JP
    BTW I'll check the hobby store up here and see if they have it.

    
    Re .373
    
    Maybe it was common in the early '80s. I saw one of Ricardo Patrese's
    Arrows racing a few weeks ago in its original colours and the name on 
    the car was just 'Ricardo'.
    
    Mark

    Well then maybe when someone on the public market offers a pre-owned
    racer they do just put the first name on.
    
    another small mystery solved.
    Thanks all.
    JP

>>    The vibration is because of the stiffness of the suspension, which is
>>    'neccesary' to keep the aerodynamic aids at a consistent(ish) angle of
>>    attack and to ensure that roll, which somehow (no doubt someone else
>>    can explain exactly the problem) affects the handling and grip, is
>>    absent.

I'll take that cue. Chassis roll affects several things which affect a cars
handling.

As a chassis rolls, the weight is transferred from the inside
tire to the outside tire. This decreases the amount of grip on the
inside tire. You may see pictures of cars like old Porsches and Alfas with
an inside tire in the air. That is an extreme, but the point is that the
inside tire is not providing the same amount of grip when the weight is
reduced.

Next is camber angles. The exact camber angle which provides the most grip
is dependant on the tires construction, for example sidewall flex. A cars
camber angle is affected by two things while driving, suspension travel due
to chassis roll and suspension travel due to up/down chassis movement
caused by going over bumps, hard acceleration and braking. Each one produces
a change in the height of the suspension points relative to the tires and
causes a change in camber. If you alter the suspension to minimize the 
camber changes due to one type of motion you will increase the camber 
changes in the other. If you stiffen the car, the movement of the
suspension points is reduced and the camber changes are minimized for all
cases. 

If anyone finds this interesting, let me know, I could probably manage to
enter some graphs of camber curves for my car showing some of the
differences.

In the early days of putting names on cars (late 60's) it seemed common to place 
just the last name in large letters.  Maybe this was so actual spectators would
be able to read the names as the cars sped by.

Nowadays, the cars are going so fast and the spectators are so far from the
track, you have no hope at all of reading the name on the car.  With a good
still picture, you can make it out, however.

It does seem that in the late 70's some drivers just had their first name.  I think
some of the Ferrari models I have are just that, 'Niki' and 'Gilles'.  Since the
spectators can't read them at speed, does it really matter what's on their.  Also,
the average person attending a GP (and able to get into the pits) might actually
be able to recognize the drivers just by first name......

What's the point of all this?  I don't know...  but just having the first name on
the car doesn't seem uncommon.  Besides, there were no F1 drivers in that era with
the last name of Bruno.

Dave

    
    Re .377
    
    An increasing sight in saloon/sportscar racing these days is the sign
    of the driver's names in large writing so that the spectator's can
    tell who is who. I believe this originated in the States, possibly in
    NASCAR (where the driver's personality appears to be more important
    than his driving ability!).
    
    Mark

What was 'unique' about the the top 3 finishers, pole winner and fastest
lap winner of the Australian GP of '86 and the Brazilian GP of '87 (last
race of '86 and first of '87)?

Dave

Or just bored....

The answer is that the top 3 drivers, pole winner and fastest lap winner for
the '86 OZ GP were the same ones as for the '87 Brazilian GP.

Here's some more trivia - Top 10 lists of Winners, Pole Winners, Fastest Laps
and Points.

Wins:
Prost	    44
Senna	    33
Stewart	    27
Lauda	    25
Clark	    25	    
Fangio	    24	    
Piquet	    23	    
Mansell	    21	    	
Moss	    16	    	
Hill	    14	    
Fittipaldi  14
Brabham	    14
	    
Poles:
Senna	    60
Clark	    33
Fangio	    29
Lauda	    25
Piquet	    24
Prost	    19
Arnoux	    18
Andretti    17
Mansell	    17
Moss	    16
Stewart	    16

Fastest Laps:
Prost	    34
Clark	    28
Piquet	    24
Lauda	    24
Fangio	    23
Mansell	    22
Moss	    20
Senna	    16
Stewart	    15
Regazzoni   15

Points:
Prost	    673.5   +27
Senna	    483	    +4
Piquet	    482.5   +4
Lauda	    420.5   
Stewart	    360	    +1
Mansell	    360	    +2
Reutemann   310	    +12
Hill	    289	    +23
Fittipaldi  281	    	
Fangio	    279.64  +32.64

    This one may be easy to you F1-freaks. I do not know the right answer,
    but I need the info, so I thought this topic could be the most proper
    place to ask this.
    
    How many times and when has the Championship been won with Honda
    engines?
    
    - Jyri -

    I think...
    
    1991	McLaren	Senna
    1990	McLaren Senna
    1989	McLaren Prost
    1988	McLaren Senna
    1987	Williams Piquet
    
    
    I think that's all. Prost won for McLaren in '86 but I think that was
    the last TAG Porsche year.
    
    Paul

  -1 is right, but Williams-Honda also won the Manufacturers championship
  in '86.  That makes 5 straight Driver's Champs and 6 makes for Honda. 
  Bested only by Ford when they took 7 of each from '68 to '74 when Lotus
  was the dominant make.
  
  Dave

    More trivia
    
    On this side of the Channel, Philip Morris France (Marlboro) are, once
    again, offering a Ferrari 348tb to the winner of the 1992 game. All you
    have to do is answer the following questions to participate in the draw
    
    - Jean Alesi and Ivan Cappelli have in common:
    
    	1. they have both won the F3000 championship
    	2. they have both won Monaco F3
    	3. they have both won the european F3 championship
    
    - in 1991, McLaren have won
    
    	1. 6 GP
    	2. 8 GP
    	3. 9 GP
    
    - 1st F1 World Driver Championship won by a McLaren driver was
    
    	1. Fittipaldi in 1974
        2. Hunt in 1976
    	3. Lauda in 1984
    
    - Marlboro-McLaren was created in 1974 and has received the
      Constructors title several times. In 1991 they got
    
    	1. their 3rd title
    	2. their 5th title
    	3. their 7th title
    
    If you wish to participate you have to send 1 answer per person before
    May 4th. The winner will be drawn on May 25th. Participants must reside
    permanently in France. Coupons can be found in shops. Answers can be
    given on audiotex 36652244, on minitel 3615 MRS and by post (postcard)

    How long must one actually live in France to be considered living in
    France.  ;-)
    
    regards,
    JP, Who wants a Ferrari reaaaaaallllll bad.

1. a guess of #2?

2. #2

3. #1

4. #3

Dave

ps - JP, just move to one of the islands off Newfoundland.....

    Thanks Dave, I never would have thought of St Pierre and Miquelon.  Alas
    by the time I got my Citizenship someone else would be driving around
    in my 348.  
    
    PS. Dave have you gotten the VW back into any rallies lately?

No, actually trying to sell it.  I'm concentrating on getting my 1924 Studebaker
Special 6 touring car on the road.  Big old 4 door phaeton, 3300 lbs, straight
6, 289 ci, wooden wheels, the whole bit.

After a year or so of playing with the Stude, and getting it nice and reliable,
I plan to buy a newer Golf 16V (or something similar) and get back into rallying.

Unless of course, the antique car bug completely takes over and I go off that
deep end for awhile...:-)

Dave

    Last night I watched some of sundays procession on Eurosport again.
    Still as boring. However there were some intresting interview with
    drivers and Patrick Head. Stangly enough Mansell only had praise for
    williams , renault and just about every other person involved. More
    intresting was the interview with Senna. He basicly said that he was
    11/10 all the time and found it a very difficult race. He went on to
    say that he didn't see Mclaren beating williams for some time and even
    with the new car. Mclarens strategy at the moment is to do the best
    they can in terms of points to hopfully minimise the effect later in the
    season. He considered williams to have the edge at the moment.
    
    	Garry

No other team has started off a season as strongly as Williams this year, at
least if you factor in the drivers.

In 1953, Ferrari started with 3 1-2 finishes with Ascari winning all 3, but the
second place finishes going to Villoresi (2) and Farina (1).

To carry over a trivia question from usenet:

Has Senna ever not DNQ for a race?  If yes, when and where?

Dave

<--double negative?

Sorry.....  Did Senna ever DNQ for a race?

Just found out over the usenet that the Marlboro McLaren transport lorries are..
......


Renaults!!!

Dave

    
    	Ha ha ha!!!!
    
    Like it.....a classic!
    
    
    Tony

    Does that mean the Williams cars are transported by Hondas
    
    Do they make a Honda that big :-)

Saw an interview with Jacques Laffite last night... So, today's trivia question
is this:
	When Laffite had his F1 career ended crash at the start of the British
Grand Prix, how many seperate fractures did he suffer?


Steve

...and how long did it take to cut him out of the car/barrier?

Meanwhile, Perry McCarthy now has his superlicence.

/Dave.

RE: -.1

I have to admit the Laffite didn't offer that snippet of information. I'll
guess at 90 minutes?

:-)

Steve

    
    And whose (and what) record did he fail to beat due to his crash?
    
    Mark (Laffite's greatest fan in the Ligier days).

re.40:

Greatest n� of GPs? held by Graham Hill at the time but now held by Patrese?

Re: Time to cut

I don't know for sure, but I was a short distance away and watched the whole
thing, I remember it being 40 minutes.

/Dave.

Yes, equalled Hill's 175 starts

BTW, The answer was 116.

Just ran across an interesting bit of history.  I didn't realize Frank Williams
was the entrant for the De Tomaso-Ford team of Piers Courage and Tim Schenken
back in 1970.....

Was this his debut as a team owner?

Dave

	Piers Courage, now there was a driver to watch...What a waste of talent.
I can still remember him rounding Paddock Bend at Brands in an F3 (Lotus?)...
perfect line.

Pick one - which one is correct?

Senna
Prost
Capelli
Piquet
Warwick
Cheever

-or-

Senna
Prost
Boutsen
Nannini
Capelli
Piquet

Different sources list either result so I have no idea which is correct!

Thanks
Dave

    The second of the 2 sounds more likely.

    
    Was Francorchamps 88 the year and the Grand prix where Boutsen was
    disqualify ?
    
    Boutsen may have finished in third place and went on the podium, 
    but due to some rules not followed (benzine not correct ?), he lost
    his points only at the end of the year.
                    
    You may find then two results : one with Boutsen and one without. 
    But this doesn't explain the other mixtures.
    
    Philippe

RE: .408

According to the discussion on the Internet, that's indeed what's responsible
for the two conflicting sets of results.  Boutsen and Nannini finished 3rd
and 4th, but they were disqualified for illegal fuel.  That moved up Capelli,
Piquet, Warwick, and Cheever.

--PSW

Yeah, looks like we have it sorted out.

Senna
Prost
Boutsen
Nannini
Capelli
Piquet
Warwick
Cheever

Remove Boutsen and Nannini for illegal fuel and we have the top 6.  Someone
(on the Internet) placed Warwick-Cheever in front of Capelli-Piquet, but I 
don't think that's right.

Thanks for the help,
Dave

Prost	673.5
Senna	501
Piquet	482.5
Mansell	426
Lauda	420.5


Dave

Here is a list of the numbers of WDC that have driven for each make, either 
before, during or after winning the title.

If you want to combine Ferrari and Lancia, then add only 1 to Ferrari because 
Fangio was the only Lancia driver (and WDC) not to drive for Ferrari proper.

If we *assume* Mansell manages to win the title this year, the numbers to the 
right are the revised totals:

McLaren	      10
Ferrari	      9		10
Lotus	      9		10
Brabham	      7
Cooper	      6
BRM	      5
Maserati      5
Lancia	      4
Williams      4		5
Alfa	      3
Lola	      3
March	      3
Wolf	      3
ATS	      2
Fittipaldi    2
Shadow	      2
Surtees	      2
Tyrrell	      2
Arrows	      1
Benetton      1
Copersucer    1
Ensign	      1
Hesketh	      1
Hill	      1
Honda	      1
Matra	      1
Mercedes      1
Parnelli      1
Renault	      1
Theodore      1
Toleman	      1
Vanwall	      1

It's interesting to note that Tyrrell only has had 2 WDC drive for him.  With 
the knack he has of attracting young and promising drivers, you'd think more 
would have made it to the top.

I can supply the names to go with the numbers if you'd like.

Dave

Senna has 7 out of 34 wins in the wet
Prost has 2 out of 44 wins in the wet
Boutsen has 2 out 3 wins in the wet (!)

In fact, Lauda. Prost and Senna all won their first race in the wet.

I probably am missing some wet races so my numbers may be low.

(w) means basically wet the whole race
(.w) means dry at first and ending wet
(w.) means wet first and then ending dry(ish)

Any corrections are welcome.

Dave

-----------

1968:
Jun 23	Zandvoort, Holland (w)	      Stewart	      3	    Matra-Ford
Jul 7	Rouen, French (w)	      Ickx	      1	    Ferrari (Jo Schlesser)

1974:
Jan 27	Interlagos, Brazil (w)	      Fittipaldi      10    McLaren-Ford M23B
Apr 28	Jamara, Spain (w)	      Lauda	      1	    Ferrari 312B3

1976:
Oct 24	Fuji, Japan (w)		      Andretti	      2	    Lotus-Ford 77

1977:
Jun 5	Zolder, Belgium (w)	      Nilsson	      1	    Lotus-Ford 78
Oct 2	Watkins Glen, USA (w)	      Hunt	      9	    McLaren-Ford M26

1981:
May 3	Imola, San Marino (w.)	      Piquet          5	    Brabham-Ford BT49
Jul 5	Dijon-Prenois, France (.w)    Prost	      1	    Renault RE-32
Sep 27	Montreal, Canada (w)	      Laffite	      6	    Talbot Ligier-Matra JS17/05

1984:
Jun 3	Monte Carlo, Monaco (w)	      Prost	      12    McLaren-TAG MP4/2

1985:
Apr 21	Estoril, Portugal (w)	      Senna	      1	    Lotus-Renault 97T
Sep 15	Spa, Belgium (from 6/2)(w)    Senna	      2	    Lotus-Renault 97T

1988:
Jul 10	Silverstone, England (w)      Senna	      10    McLaren-Honda MP4/4
Jul 24	Hockenheim, Germany (w)	      Senna	      11    McLaren-Honda MP4/4

1989:
Jun 18	Montreal, Canada (w)	      Boutsen	      1	    Williams-Renault FW12C
Aug 27	Spa-Francorchamps, Belguim(w) Senna	      19    McLaren-Honda MP4/5
Nov 5	Adelaide, Australia (w)	      Boutsen	      2	    Williams-Renault FW13

1990:
Jun 10	Montreal, Canada (w.)	      Senna	      23    McLaren-Honda MP4/5B

1991:
Nov 3   Adalaide, Australia (w)	      Senna           33    McLaren-Honda MP4/6

1992:
Jul 5	Magny Cours, France (w.)      Mansell	      27    Williams-Renault FW14B

    Didn't Brambilla (the "Monza Gorilla) win a wet Austrian race in the
    mid 70s? Just after crossing the line he threw his arms in the air and
    piled into the Armco. It may also be the race where the late Lella
    Lombardi scored the only point (half-point in fact) ever scored by a
    woman.

RE: .414,

Yes, Vittorio did just that in a rain-shortened race. Next season ('76) John 
Watson won his maiden GP in the Penske in another very wet race. Ronnie
Peterson won a re-started wet race at the �sterreichring in '78.

I think that Lombardi got her half point at the tragic Spanish GP at Monjuich
Park  - where Rolf Stommelen went off into the crowd whilst in the lead in his
Hill.

Cheers

Steve

	Just an observation, but I was in a doctor's waiting room this week
and picked up an old copy of Autosport for March this year. In it was a nice
article on Eddie Jordan and it said that his original GP car of 1991 was
going to be called the 911 (presumably the year followed by the model index)
but he was persuaded to change it to 191 when Porsche found out. However,
the deal was that Porsche loaned him a real 911 for 12 months to keep him
happy!...

1 (the easy one): Which driver was capable of winning the WDC in the last
race of two different seasons, but did not - and he never won the WDC.

2 (a bit more difficult): Name the drivers who have come soooooo close to 
winning the WDC, yet never have.  This is determined by finding drivers who 
could have won the title in the last race of the year, but didn't.  Also, 
don't include any driver in this situation who had a previous WDC title or 
won it later on.  (Hint: there are 9 different drivers)


Dave

    Reutemann
    Regazzoni

Guesses:

1) Stirling Moss


2) Moss
   Reutemann  |
   Regazzoni  | Cribbing here!
   Ickx
   Peterson (a bit 'iffy' - was he ever a CLOSE second in the championship?)
   von Trips
   Brooks
   Farina
   Villeneuve?

1) Moss is correct

2) Correct so far:
	Moss
	Reutemann
	Regazzoni
	Brooks
	(need 5 more)

Dave

1950 - Luigi Fagioli
1951 - Jose Frolian Gonzalez
1956 - Peter Collins*
1958 - Stirling Moss
1959 - Tony Brooks/Stirling Moss
1974 - Clay Regazzoni
1981 - Carlos Reutemann/Jacques Laffite
1982 - Didier Pironi**/John Watson
1983 - Rene Arnoux*

* I missed these on my first calculation....
** Practically he was not a factor, but mathematically he qualifies

Dave

Saw some interesting signs on the broadcast of Monza:

Ford Fiesta Boston
(Is Boston a version of the Fiesta?)

Diesel Jeans
(this name actually *sells* jeans?)

Dave

    
    Weren't there "Digital" signs up everywhere at Monza last year... in
    almost every camera shot?

re.423:

Yes, for the last few years. There was also a Digital hospitality area. All part
of the Digital Italy sponsorship of Ferrari.

Dave.

    .423�    Weren't there "Digital" signs up everywhere at Monza last year... in
    
    Was it at Monza ? I thought DEC Italy chose to have signs and
    hospitality at Imola.

re.425:

Yes I remember signs at Imola too, maybe not in the same year? 

Dave.

    Now that Mansell has a World Championship title, how many years is it
    before we can expect him on the Beeb (a la Hunt-The-Shunt) ?   ;-)
    
    J.R.

re.427:

Errrr, no thanks. Isn't Jonathan Palmer bad enough?

Dave.

    
    Here Dave,
    
    Leave JP alone! He's a personal friend of my mum!!!!!!
    
    Mark

    A few F1 questions to ponder.
    
    1) With the US poised for considerable success in F1 with Michael Andretti
    next year, can you name, in terms of points, the five most successful
    American drivers. (Number one should be easy)
    
    2) Michael Schumacher became only the third German to win a Grand Prix.
    Who were the other two ?
    
    3) And finally, only three Germans scored points in the 1980's. Who
    were they ? 
    

    
    re 1 I'm not so sure he will be successful but.
    
    	 Mario is first. then err um err..
    
       2, Wolfgang Graf Von Tripps , Holland and England 
    	  Jochen Mass Spain 75
          
       3 Manfred Winkelhoch 2 points
         Stefan Bellof 3 points
    	 Christian Danner 4 points
          

    .430�    next year, can you name, in terms of points, the five most successful
    .430�    American drivers. (Number one should be easy)
    
    	Andretti
    	Cheever
    	Sullivan
    	Gurney
    	Ginther
    
    	Bucknum
    
    .430�    2) Michael Schumacher became only the third German to win a Grand Prix.
    .430�    Who were the other two ?
    
    	Von Trips
    	Rindt
    
    .430�    3) And finally, only three Germans scored points in the 1980's. Who
    .430�    were they ? 
    
    	Winkelhock
    	Bellof
    	Mass

    US Drivers (assuming that Indy's daysof counting for the w/c are
    excluded)
    
    Andretti
    Phil Hill
    Pete Revson
    Dan Gurney
    Eddie Cheever
    
    but maybe Mark Donohue is there somewhere too.
    
    Paul

Mass and von Trips were the German drivers - Rindt was Austrian.
                                  
I believe that the most drivers who have scored the most points were:

Mario Andretti  (12 victories)
Richie Ginther 
Phil Hill    
Dan Gurney	
Pete Revson  
Harry Schell

Steve

Question #1:

Depending how you classify them.  By points, Revson drops off the list,
but by victories Cheever is excluded.

Name                 Wins  Points WDC

Mario Andretti        12   180    *
Dan Gurney            4    133
Richie Ginther        1    102        
Phil Hill             3     94    *   
Eddie Cheever               70
Peter Revson          2     61
Harry Schell		    27
Masten Gregory              21
others.... (less than 10 points each)

Question #2:

as answered before, Wolfgang von Trips and Jochen Mass

Question #3:

Combine the previous answers and actually we have 4 Germans who finished in the
points during the 80's:

Jochen Mass (4 in 1980)
Manfred Winkelhock (2 in 1982)
Stefan Bellof (4 in 1985)
Christian Danner (1 in 1986 and 3 in 1989)

Of course, we don't have to remind anyone what happened to Manfred, Wolfgang and 
Stefan.... :-(

Dave

    Answers:
    
    The last note summed it up, although I make the points totals slightly
    different.
    
    Question 1:
    
    1 M.Andretti	180 pts
    2 D Gurney		133 pts
    3 R Ginther		107 pts
    4 P Hill		 98 pts
    5 E Cheever		 70 pts
    6 P Revson		 61 pts
    7 H Schell		 30 pts
    
    Question 2:
    
    Wolfgang Von Trips and Jochen Mass
    
    Question 3:
    
    M Winkelhock (2)
    S Bellof (4)
    C Danner (4)
    
    I'm not so sure about Mass scoring in 1980.
    
    dave.
    
    

	Not sure where else to put this, but thinking about active
suspension, I presume that hydraulic rams are used to work the
suspension arms instead of springs. This would allow the car to
ride at a constant height at any downforce. But the suspension
has such a small amount of play it is still usual to see the wheels
off the ground if the car goes onto rough terrain or into the sand
trap. This usually means retirement following one minor transgression
because outside assistance is not allowed to put the car back on
the track.
	Is it outside the realms of ingenuity to build active suspension
which allows the car to rise onto "tiptoe" to get back onto the
track after such an event? (A bit like the suspension on a Citroen).
	Answering my own question I suppose that it would be a bit
like the need for a reverse gear on an F1 car which, apart from being
mandatory, must see very little use unless your name is Mansell. But
if it makes the difference between retirement and a few place-points,
surely it must be worth it?

I think there is a regulation which says something about ground clearance.
Back in the early '80's when skirts where banned (on F1 cars) everyone had
"lifts" which allowed them to meet the ground clearance rules.  It was 
humorous to see the cars race, sides touching the ground, and then on the
cool-down lap come around with the required clearance (about 5 cm.).  The
cars would be measured coming into the pits by a marshall who had a block
of wood attached to a long pole the would push under the car.  I seem to 
recall someone losing points because their hydraulic system failed and
did not allow them to pass inspection.

Jeff

More of a history question than trivia, but....

I have a model of the Lago-Tabot GP car from the late 40's
and early 50's.  It's a remake of an old Heller kit and
now produced in Prague, Chechoslovakia.  It's nothing 
great, it cost only $6, but I'd like to do as much proper
detail to it as possible.  I know the body color is
blue, but I'd like to get colors for the engine block,
valve covers, seat, dash board, stuff like that.

They mention a few general colors in the directions, but
they didn't see fit to include an english (or american...)
translation.

Does anyone have a picture of this car from some vintage
meet in Europe that could help?

Thanks
Dave

    Dave,
    
    There's a couple of these still racing over here. They come from the
    Totnes Motor Museum (which I've visited). I'll see if I can find their
    address - maybe if you write they'll actually look under the hood for
    you!
    
    Nigel

	Jean-Pierre Jarier was generally considered to be in the 
	mobile chicane category, however on one occasion he not
	only qualified on pole but led for most of the race until
	mechanical failure stopped a certain victory.

	Where?
	When?
	Car?
	Car Number?


	-John

    .442� Jean-Pierre Jarier was generally considered to be in the 
    .442� mobile chicane category, however on one occasion he not
    
    I challenge this. Jarier was called 'godasse de plomb' (heavy right
    foot is the best translation). He did not have many opportunities to 
    play in the F1 field but when he did have a good car he did brilliant 
    things. He surely wasn't gonna be a F1 world champion, but he was
    definitely not slow.
    
    .442� only qualified on pole but led for most of the race until
    .442� mechanical failure stopped a certain victory.
    
    .442�	Where?		Brazil ?
    .442�	When?           197?
    .442�	Car?            UOP Shadow
    .442�	Car Number?     ?          	
               

    My best guess is Patrick's as well:
    
    Brazil, Interlagos
    1975
    Shadow-Ford
    Pole and Fastest Lap by Jarier
    Winner - Pace
    
    Dave

	Ho Hum, well this isn't the race I'm thinking of. Are you sure he
	was around in 75?. The mobile chicane label that Jarier received in
	GB was based on several incidents where he caused problems by not
	realising that he was about to be lapped, in the race in question 
	he fairly left the opposition for dead so to speak.

	-John

    Jarier's first year in F1 was 1973.  His last was 1983.  He had three
    poles:
    
    Argentina 1975 (Shawdow-Ford)
    Brazil 1975 (Shadow-Ford)
    Montreal 1978 (Lotus-Ford 79)
    
    He took fastest lap in three races too:
    
    Brazil 1975 (Shadow-Ford)
    Brazil 1976 (Shadow-Ford)
    Watkins Glen 1978 (Lotus-Ford 79)
    
    
    So, which one of the races was it?  By your comments I would have to
    guess you are referring to the '78 Montreal race, right?
    
    Dave

�    Montreal 1978 (Lotus-Ford 79)
 
I think the Canadian race would have been at Mont Tremblant in '78.

							Mike

    1978 was the first Canadian GP in Montreal.
    
    Dave

    
    	This isn't really meant to test anyone it's just for my curiousity
    as last night when I was at the indoor Karting club I bought two
    posters,both of Benneton F1 cars,one was Teho Fabi's(sp?)and the other 
    I assume was Alisandro Nannini (sp?) (I only know this by the names on
    the side of the car).Can any of you that have followed F1 longer than
    my couple of years tell me how long ago this photo was taken?
    
    
    	Andy.
    
    Bracknell Karting double booked so I couldn't race last nice.What a
    pain in the preverbial.
    

    I can't remember all the years, but Fabi was there in 86 - that was the
    year Benneton first won (Berger in Mexico) and they also got a couple of
    poles (Fabi in Austria at least).
    
    Nannini was certainly there in 89. That was the year he picked up his
    only win in Japan (following the Senna/Prost altercation and subsequent
    Senna disqualification). Not long after that Nannini lost (but later
    regained) his lower arm in a helicopter accident.
    
    I'm sure Dave Burden can give you the full details!
    	

  Thanks for the lead-in Nigel...  Nannini and Teo Fabi were never teammates 
  at Benetton, although they came very close.
  
  Fabis' rides were:
  
  1982 - #36 Toleman-Hart TG181
  1984 - #2  Brabham-BMW
  1985 - #19 Toleman-Hart TG185
         #19 Toleman-Hart TG185T
  1986 - #19 Benetton-BMW B186
  1987 - #19 Benetton-Ford B187
  
  Nanninis' rides were:
  
  1986 - #24 Minardi-MM M185B
  1987 - #24 Minardi-MM M186
  1988 - #19 Benetton-Ford B188
  1989 - #19 Benetton-Ford
  1990 - #19 Benetton-Ford
                              
  From this information I would guess that both cars were #19 and they were
  taken between the 1987 and 1988 seasons.
  
  Dave

I seemed to have fallen behind in my data gathering.  Can someone fill in these
bits for me?

Thanks
Dave

-------------

Silverstone 93:
pole winner
pole time
fastest lap driver
fastest lap time

Fastest Lap driver and times from:
Monza 92
Estoril 92
Suzuka 92
Interlagos 93 (time only)
Monte Carlo 93
Montreal 93

    There's an "ask your fellow readers a sports trivia question" in the
    Independent on Sunday. Someone recently asked "when was the last time a
    driver won the world championship in a car that clearly wasn't the best
    car?". The reply they printed was from a guy who was going on about
    Hawthorn in 1958 and then one of the early 60's ones. 
    
    I'd have gone for Prost in 1986 (year of the Mansell blow-out when he
    and Piquet conspired to let Prost sneak in). Senna in 1991 is
    debatable as I reckon the Williams and McLaren were pretty well
    matched.
    
    This week there was "why is pole position so called?".

Good question and I bet it comes from horse racing, although I still can't
explain it.

Dave

How about Scheckter in '79 - that bathtub clearly was not the class of the
field? Prost was down on power on the Williams; however the MP4 chassis was at
least its equal.

-Steve

    How about in 84 when Brahbam(Nelson Piquet) stole it away from Renault
    (Alain Prost)?
    
    Dale
    
    

I disagree with .456 - Jody and Gilles finished 1-2 in the championship and
Ferrari won the constructors cup - hardly an indication of a 'bad' car.

My vote would go to the Williams-Ford FW08 in 1982 - 1 win all season.

Dave

Which drivers have logged Fastest Laps in 4 or more consecutive GPs (within or
across seasons.)

Dave

    Probably Jim Clark and possibly Prost (has the most FLs of any driver).
    How far back do you go - Ascari???

Sorry Nigel, both Clark and Prost are wrong.  I'm going all the way back to
Silverstone 1950 (skipping the Indy 500s of course.)

Dave

    Fangio?? Ascari?
    
    I guess JY Stewart or maybe Jochen Rindt?
    
    Just for you Dave - who filled up his F1 car at a regular gas station
    rather than the pits during a world championship GP (who, when, and where)?

I know! I know!  I just can't remember......:-) - Moss?

Fangio, Ascari and JYS are correct - 2 more (much more recent)

Dave

It happened to Jack Brabham in the 1957 Pescara GP when he was driving an 
early F1/F2 Cooper. This was a long (15 mile plus) circuit over genuine 
roads on the Adriatic coast of Italy. On his last lap JB ran out of fuel 
when he was coasting through a village (times have changed!). He spotted a 
small filling station and drifted in. The attendant was suitably surprised, 
but pulled himself together and sloshed a few pints in. This enabled Jack to 
drive on and finish 7th and last. He didn't say whether he paid for the gas.

 

  Of course that was it.... I knew it... :-)
  
  Since you gave your answer - the other two on my list are Mansell and
  Schumacher.  JYS. Nigel and Michael have 4 fastest laps in a row, JMF has
  5 and Alberto had 5 with one of those shared.  Lots more have 3 in a row.
  
  Dave

Ronnie Peterson - 1978
Jochen Rindt - 1970
C____(?) and M____ B_____ - 1933
(I just read about them last night in Grand Prix Requiem, but can't recall their
names.)

Dave

Senna has not been on the podium for the last 6 races.  This has not happened
since *1985*.

Dave

    Re .466
    
    C----- was Campari and B------ (I think) was Borzacchini - I think 3
    drivers were killed on that day after oil was spilt on the circuit. The
    drivers protested but the organisers persuaded them to race and avoid a
    crowd riot.
    
    In the same vein, Wolfgang von Trips was killed early in the Italian GP
    on Sept 10th. 1961. This effectively handed the world championship
    to his team-mate Phil Hill.	

It was von Trips, not Rindt, although Rindt did die at Monza, it wasn't on Sept
10.

Grand Prix Requiem said that 4 drivers crashed on the first lap of that race in
1933.  Two of them walked away, but Campari and Borzacchini both died.

Dave

To re-phrase the same trivia, in a more morbid way.

Two American driver's have won the World Championship in it's 44 year history -
Phil Hill and Mario Andretti. They both won it at Monza, on 10-Sep. Going into
this race, the only person who could beat them was their team mate (Von Trips
and Peterson respectively). Both team mates lost their lives on this day.

So, if in 6 years or so time, Michael Andretti is running in for the World
Championship at Monza, a suggestion. Give his team mate the day off...

-Steve

re 1830.1589

> Here's a teaser: when was the last time that the World Champions decided to
>    quit F1 in two successive years?
    
The 'last' time?  There wasn't one.  Here are the times (counting this year)
that the reigning WDC did not compete the following year:

Mike Hawthorn - WDC in 1958, died in Jan 1959 in road accident
Jochen Rindt - WDC in 1970, postumously
Jackie Stewart - WDC in 1973, retired
Nigel Mansell - WDC in 1992, moved to IndyCar series
Alain Prost - WDC 1993, retired

If I've missed one, let me know.

Dave

RE: .471

Note that Mike Hawthorn had announced his retirement from F1 before his fatal 
road accident.

--PSW

 > Fangio won the championship in 57 and then retired. Hawthorn won the
 >   championship in 58 and then retired. 

Fangio did win the title in 1957, but he raced in the 1958 Argentine and French
Grands Prix (3rd and 4th respectively) before retiring.

Dave

    I stand corrected. I did not know that Fangio raced in two GPs in 1958.
    
    Edward.

    Just to try and get my own back...
    
    Two GP drivers have taken a swim - with their cars - in the harbour at
    Monaco. One - Ascari - is famous. The other, much less so.
    
    Who, when, and driving what? Further, what became of him?
    
    Edward.

Paul Hawkins?  1965 or before?

Dave

    
    Wasn't one from the film Grand Prix, was it the guy who played Rocky,
    from the Rockford files ?
            

I believe the crash in the movie was based on Hawkins crash....

Dave

    It was indeed Paul Hawkins driving a Lola (I think) in 1964 or 1965.
    Hawkins died at the wheel of a Lola T70 in the 1970 Gold Cup at Oulton
    Park.
    
    The crash in Frankenheimer's Grand Prix was a reconstruction, but it
    might have been inspired by Hawkins' accident. The driver involved was
    indeed played by James Garner of The Rockford Files fame. It's a pretty
    crummy film, but some of the race footage is excellent, particularly
    the in-car shots at Spa, telegraph poles, bored cows, and Post Offices
    and all. I've got it on tape.

	Particularly the Ferrari bits, now who was the Frenchman
	playing the too old driver who wanted the world championship
	but ended up hanging from a tree?  Plus what make was Garner's
	car?

	Dave

    Yves Montand played Jean-Pierre Sarti, who went over the banking at
    Monza. Did anyone ever really do that?
    
    Unless I'm mistaken, Garner and the slimeball Scott Stoddard drove
    Jordans. How topical! But I can't remember the name of the driver
    played by Garner.
    
    Motorsport films have tended to be trashy and very Hollywoodesque in
    terms of plot, but some do include great racing scenes, "Le Mans" being
    another good example. I also once saw a film called "Winning" with Paul
    Newman and Robert Wagner. It was all midgets and Indycars.
    
    Salut,
    Edward

    By the way, if anyone has a copy of "Le Mans" on tape, I would be
    willing to pay large sums of money to get my hands on it.
    Alternatively, has it ever been released on tape?
    
    Salut,
    Edward

	I wish I had stereo on my TV for that one.  If they'd have
	filmed it the year before they could have had the crash scenes
	for free.  As it was, they had to restage them with remotely
	controlled cars.

	Dave

I have Le Mans on tape - a real copy, not taped from the TV.  I'll post the
'part number' in a day or two if I remember.  I also have the Grand Prix sound
track on vinyl, but no the movie.

Dave

    The last time two brothers took part in the same GP.
    
    Who, where, and when?
    
    Salut,
    Edward

    
    Wilson and Emerson Fittipaldi?
    
    Mark

I'd guess Jody and Ian Scheckter, but I'd have to check my records for the exact
date and race.

Dave

    Jody and Ian Scheckter is right. In 1976 (or 1977).
    
    Next question please.
    
    Salut,
    Edward

I think the full answer is Canada 1977, Ian was in a March and Jody won the race
in the Wolf.

A question?  Of the top of my head?? :-)

What the details of the first Ford/Cosworth victory (who, when, where, type of
car) and the last, before they outlawed turbos?

Dave

    .490�What the details of the first Ford/Cosworth victory (who, when, where, type of
    
    Lotus 49 at Monaco ?

    Holland 1967. Jim Clark. Lotus 49. It was also the Lotus 49's first
    race.
    
    The last? Michele Alboreto in a Tyrrell at Detroit, but I'm stumped for
    the year.
    
    Salut,
    Edward

Correct on the first win and good enough on the 'last' - the year was 1983.

Next?

Dave

    Mike Hawthorn started his championship-winning season with two team
    mates, neither of whom made it to the end of the year.
    
    Who were they, what happened to them, and where?
    
    Salut,
    Edward

Peter Collins and Luigi Musso - both died during the year, but I don't recall
the details.  von Trips also drove a Ferrari that year (1958).

Didn't Collins die at Monza trying to forstall a track record attempt by another
team?  Or was that Ascari.....

Dave

    It was indeed Ascari.
    
    Luigi Musso died at Rhiems in the French GP following a collision
    with...Hawthorn.
    Peter Collins died in the German GP when in close company
    with...Hawthorn.
    
    Long live Ferrari.
    Salut,
    Edward

Going back a bit to the film Grand Prix. The "accident" coming out of the old
tunnel (before Loewes made it several hundred yards longer) was created by
firing a car out of a big cannon, you know, the human cannonball type. Here's
the interesting bit, the car did the wall of death hit all sorts of things on
the way down and then the director decided it wasn't mangled nearly half enough,
so the used crowbars to make it look more realistic!

On the Monza race, the cars on the banking are all fakes. Look closely, they are
mostly F3 or Fjunior with stuck on exhausts.

The BBC did a documentary on the making of the film which was as interesting as
the film itself, especially some of the stuff they didn't show which pure racing
fans would have been left rather wide eyed but it was felt the Joe public would
have thought boring! Pity.

All too many people went over the banking over the years at Monza.

After driving for Jordan, Rockford went to Honda.

I saw the film in a cinema in Manchester, the only one at the time with wrap
around screen, super wide something-rama. It was awesome! I remember seeing a
lot of races that year and the BRM's turned up at Oulton Park still with the
Jordan stickers on.

The story wasn't great, but now as historical archive footage it is
irreplaceable, there is far more in that film that meets the eye first time
round, things like Graham Hill hamming it up dreadfully. The one thing that was
missing was Jimmy Clark. I believe there was some kind of dispute with Colin
Chapman (what a surprise) and thus Lotus gets very little coverage.

I could go on and on and on..

There was also a film on the making of Le Mans which was equally crazy, but that
is another story, and yes you could get it on video. Try the company on the Isle
of Man, back page of this weeks Autosport.

Mike

>>> The story wasn't great, but now as historical archive footage it is
>>> irreplaceable, there is far more in that film that meets the eye first time
>>> round, things like Graham Hill hamming it up dreadfully.

I couldn't agree more, especially as it dates from what I personally consider
to be a "golden age". It's also curious to see REAL drivers in walk-on parts.
Some of them even get a few lines!!! Graham and Phil Hill come to mind.

The in-car shots from Spa are simply breath-taking. Somehow, it didn't look the
same from behind the wheel of my Austin Metro.

Thanks for the info about the "Le Mans" film.

Salut,
Edward

During part of the film (think it might have been the finale) James Garner goes
on to win after his engine granades on the last bend. To get the right reaction
of "shock horror" from the crowd of extras, after many lukewarm reactions,
Frankenheimer told the special effects crew to wire up the tea truck and
blow that up, off camera, at the strategic point. So the crowd reaction is not
"wow, what a hero", but "bugger me, there goes my bacon sarnie!"


T.


(Urban legend, Hollywood branch, #452)

Absolutely true, there were many such stories like this because the guy couldn't
get enough gore into it, and even when they did people in those days were so
used to it that there reaction was more of resigned acceptance that yet another
driver had gone. Remember at that time there were rather too many drivers
getting killed. At some points it seemed to me that it was nearly every week
that another of my childhood heroes had gone. I too am guilty of thinking, s--t
another one and continuing on as if nothing had happened, not good.

    Just got back and missed all this trivia.
    
    Easy one - what was the first F1 car that Senna drove? Ditto
    Villeneuve?

    Wasn't it one of the Wolfe cars.
    regards,
    JP

And from a Canadian?? :-)

Gilles' first F1 drive was in the #40 McLaren-Ford M23 at 1977 British GP
(Silverstone)

He did do some FA(?) races in a Wolf that was terrible before he made it into F1.

Senna's first F1 race was in a Toleman-Hart (#19) in Brazil, 1984.

I'm pretty sure that the only testing Gilles did in an F1 car before his first
race was in a McLaren.  I don't know if Senna tested in any other F1 car before
his debut.

Dave

    Hey come on I was only 14 yrs old then, I was more interested in girls
    than Ferraris at that time.
    reagrds,
    JP

Suprised no one got the Senna half of the question, it was, of course, a 
Williams.

Dave.

    <<< Note 1178.505 by VANGA::KERRELL "The first word in DECUS is Digital" >>>
    
>>    Suprised no one got the Senna half of the question, it was, of course, a
>>    Williams.
    
    I didn't know this. When and where?
    
    Salut,
    Edward

    Senna - yes, it was part of his prize for winning the British F3 series
    in '83 (after a battle with Martin Brundle). Frank was impressed but
    decided to keep an eye on him for the future rather than sign him for
    '84. Looks like it took him 10 years to get his name on a contract. 
    
    Gilles - he had one test session in the McLaren and then drove it at
    the British GP meeting of 1977.
    
    Anyone know what other significant "first" happened at that same
    British GP?	

    The turbocharged Renault made it's debut with Jabouille at the wheel.
    It piddled about midfield before retiring. Hardly indicative of what
    was to follow...
    
    Salut,
    Edward

    That was quick off the mark, and correct of course. I think it was just
    about 3 years before they won with it - France 1980, wasn't it?
    
    

    France 1980 it was, again with Jabouille at the wheel on that silly
    circuit at Dijon.
    
    More Renault trivia, but only tenuously related to F1...
    Just about one year after the R101's debut at Silverstone in 1977,
    Renault finally won at Le Mans after losing to Porsche on countless
    occasions.
    
    Who drove the winning car?
    
    Salut,
    Edward

    .511�    Just about one year after the R101's debut at Silverstone in 1977,
    .511�    Renault finally won at Le Mans after losing to Porsche on countless
    .511�    Who drove the winning car?
    
    1978 Didier Pironi and Jean-Pierre Jaussaud

And on a rather sad note.....


	Where did Pironi's F1 career end ?

	and under what circumstances did he meet his death ?

Rob

    Hockenheim practice in 1982. This was the incident that made Prost very
    aware of the risks of driving in dangerously wet conditions as it was
    his car that the unsighted Pironi ran into.
    
    Perversely it was later a real power boating crash that killed him off
    the Isle of Wight a few years later.

    1982, a black year...
    
    Rosberg won the championship under unique circumstances. He holds an
    unenviable record amongst World Champions. What is it?
    
    Salut,
    Edward

I think Keke won the championship with only 1 win (or was it
no wins?)

Jeff

    Indeed, Rosberg won the championship with just one victory. The lowest
    number of victories ever for a championship winner. I think he won the
    Swiss GP, which was held in France.
    
    In response to the question about Le Mans, the winning car in 1978 was
    driven by Pironi, Jaussaud and (I think) Jabouille.
    
    Salut,
    Edward

Erm, without my ref books I'm lost, but didn't Hawthorn win with just one
victory to Moss's 3?
I'll look it up when I get home

    Re -.1
    
    No need to look it up, Hawthorn just won the French. He beat Moss with
    4 wins, and Brooks with 3, mainly by racking up the seconds while the
    other guys won or bust.
    
    Rosberg's one win championship really stands out in recent years
    though. I think there were about seven winners that year. I bet in
    twenty five years time people won't look back and say "wasn't 82 a
    fantastically open year", but they will say "remember how Williams stuffed
    everyone in 93".   

changing things slightly -

	in which year(s) did a driver compete for different constructors and go 
	on to win the world title ?

	who was he ?
	who were the manufacturers ?

Rob

    ....it's not that much of a change because in the year we were just
    talking about, Moss won races with 2 different cars (Cooper and Vanwall).
    
    I guess the one you're after is Fangio in 1954 racing for Maserati and
    Mercedes.
    
    Going back to Rosberg, his other claim to fame is that in 81 he did a
    full season and scored 0, then next year he was champion. I always
    liked Keke, and I reckon if he'd stayed with Williams in '86 then
    Mansell would never have happened.	

    Sorry chaps. I didn't realise that Hawthorn also won the championship
    with just one GP victory. I think that Pironi or Villeneuve would
    certainly have won in 1982, if only...
    
    In response to the question, I guess at Fangio, but I'm stumped for the
    year and the constructors.
    
    Edward

    .522�    with just one GP victory. I think that Pironi or Villeneuve would
    .522�    certainly have won in 1982, if only...
    
    Pironi almost won the championship with the points he had scored until
    Hockenheim.

>	in which year(s) did a driver compete for different constructors and go 
>	on to win the world title ?

Correct of course Nigel
	
	The year ...1954
	The man.....Fangio
	The cars....Maserati.....followed by Mercedes W196 Streamliner..

Incidently I believe the Merc is the only car driven to a championship which has
had covered wheels. 

Rob

    Re the Mercedes streamliner. Fangio won first time out in this at
    Rheims (French GP), which was a very fast circuit highly suited to the
    car. However, at the next GP (Silverstone) it flopped simply because
    Fangio found it very difficult to place the car precisely as he
    couldn't see the wheels - it ended up covered in dents where he
    clobbered the marker barrels (!). So they dropped the streamline body, 
    switched to a more conventional layout, and started winning again. I
    think the only time they used the streamliner after that was for a
    non-championship GP at Avus, another flat out circuit.

    I have a photo from the Silverstone GP taken in practice of Hawthorn
    and Fangio. Interestingly the dents were already there as was the dent
    in Hawthorns "boot" Fangio apparently used Mike's extra visibility to
    get his own lines and got a bit too close hence the bump. They didn't
    run together during the race.
    
    No I don't remember it though I was there being indoctrinated by my
    father!!!

    The previous replies reminded me of Rosberg at Monaco.
    
    Does anyone remember Monaco the year Rosberg won ('83 ?)? 
    
    The track was wet and verryy slippyy. Almost eveyone started on wets. 
    Rosberg lined up at the start with slicks!!!. Somehow Rosberg held on to 
    the Williams. Glorious to watch. 
                     
    After a couple of laps all turbo cars dived into the pits for slicks. By
    then they had lost time on the road to Rosberg, and the pit
    stops lost everyone even more time. Anyone remember it better?
    
    Gabriel
     
                                                   

I have this race on tape, or at least the highlights, in the words of Maurice
Chevalier.."I remember it well" 

Jonesey had a similar style. I can remember a 5000 (although I think it was by
this time called something else) race at Silverstone where Jones was in the
Thursdays/RAM March and was a full second quicker than anything else through the
chicane. I sat there the whole race mesmerised by the control..........
And then there was Bellof in a 962 at the 1000K having been severly delayed and
no hope of winning, proceded to drive flat out everywhere. I tell you, standing
on the exit of the old Becketts was REAL scarey, I'll never forget that sight.

    Another memory of Keke,
    
    I was at Woodcote (the old-style chicane) in  practice at Silverstone
    when he did two 160+ laps on a still damp track. I remember he went
    "through" the chicane at the end of one of the laps with pieces of
    rubber flying off his rear tyres in all directions. As he himself once
    said "my b*lls were bigger than my brain on that lap!".

    .529�    Another memory of Keke,
    
    Similar impressions at Paul Ricard, still on the long original circuit,
    Keke going through the high speed esses on a fast qualifying lap ... !!
    How he managed to keep the car on the track makes me think that there
    is a mysterious adhesion phenomenon that works sometimes for some
    drivers.
    
    The difference between Keke and Senna/Prost is very visible: you knew
    that he was on a record breaking lap. Not that I don't appreciate the
    clean/cool way Senna/Prost manage their record breaking laps ... 

    The renowned photographer Klementaski related a story that he could put
    a penny on the track and lap after lap after lap Moss would put a wheel
    over te penny. Prost's style isn't so new. Someone in Autosport this
    week said that in the days of Stewart the style was called "artistry".
    
    Methinks that because the "racing" of the last few years has been thin
    on the ground the criticism has been misdirected at the likes of Prost.
    No I'm not a particular Prost fan, he doesn't give me the buzz that
    Villeneuve, Bellof, Jones, Rosberg, Stuck, Bandini, Hunt, Amon, Hulme..
    
    Even Derek Bell in a 917 sans brakes of any kind at Silverstone in the
    not too recent past was something to behold.

    Since this is the trivia topic and we're talking about him, here's some
    Keke trivia....
    
    1. What's his real first name?
    2. What was he driving when he won his first F1 race, what year, where?
    3. What happened when he got his first pole (Brands Hatch, 1982)?
    4. What was unique about his Marlboro McLaren at Austria 1986?
    5. What did he try to register the name of his power boat as (it was
       refused by the British authorities!)? 	

>1. What's his real first name?

Kejio or something like that

>2. What was he driving when he won his first F1 race, what year, where?

Williams-Ford FW08/5
Swiss GP at Dijon-Prenois, France 
Aug 29, 1982

Dave

    .533�>1. What's his real first name?
    
    Keijo

                    <<< Note 1178.532 by IOSG::DUTT "Nigel Dutt" >>>
                    -< More than you wanted to know about Keke... >-
    
>>>     2. What was he driving when he won his first F1 race, what year, where?
    
    It was a filthy Sunday afternoon at Silverstone in April, 1978. The
    race was the dear old International Trophy. Keke was driving, of all
    things, a Theodore. He stayed on the track when others spun off and
    just kept ahead of Fittipaldi in the Copersucar.
    
    Edward.

    2. Theodore, Silverstone International Tourist Trophy, 1978, debut of
    the Lotos 79. It was VERY wet, I got soaked.
    3. Fuel Vaporisation, he didn't make the parade lap so started from the
    back. Patrese also on the front row stalled at the start and Arnoux hit
    him (what a surprise)
    4. I can only think it was yellow and white, but the only immediate
    record to hand shows this colour scheme at Estoril, otherwise I would
    have to dive into past volumes of Autosport.
    

    Ed got in just before me, also who took the lead at the end of the
    first lap at that race and in what?

    Correct answers on Keke trivia 1-4, and even a correction to my
    question about the Austrian GP. Anyway, you're right he ran in
    Marlboro Lights colours - yellow rather than orange. 
    
    And the name of his boat - "Wet Dream".
    
    

    answer to my addition was Derek Daly in a Hesketh.
    Ed will probably agree that that day whilst thoroughly miserable was
    fascinating to watch the normal also rans giving the big boys a real
    hard time. Motor "sport" is the only sport that doesn't have all the
    best sports people at the top, you have to have money, millions of it

    <<< Note 1178.539 by WARNUT::ALLEN "It works better if you screw it in.." >>>
    
>>>        answer to my addition was Derek Daly in a Hesketh.
    
    A Hesketh in 1978? The Hesketh teal folded at the end of 1975 and was
    bought by Walter Wolf. Frank Williams had a disasterous year in 1976
    with the Hesketh 308. I didn't realise that there were any Heskeths
    knocking about in 1978. Are you sure?
    
    Edward

    Here's one for Friday afternoon, or even the weekend...
    
    Chris Amon was one of my boyhood heroes. He's often said to be the
    unluckiest F1 driver ever, mainly because he never won a GP even though
    he deserved to win half a dozen.
    
    He did, however, win two F1 races. Where, when, and driving what?
    
    Salut,
    Edward

    .541�    He did, however, win two F1 races. Where, when, and driving what?
    
    Argentine, non-championship F1 event, in a Matra MS120 ?

    ...and I think he won a British F1 race in a Ferrari, but can't
    remember when or where.

    The first bit is right.
    
    He won a non-championship race in Argentina in 1971 (or 72) at the wheel
    of a Matra MS120.
    He also won the 1970 International Trophy at Silverstone in a March
    701. He only just beat Jackie Stewart, who was also driving a March.
    
    The first GP I ever saw was the British race in 1968 at Brands Hatch.
    He should have won, but was handicapped by a slow puncture and
    eventually was beaten by Jo Siffert.

    Re -.1
    
    Talking of which, I was looking at that very Lotus driven by Jo Siffert
    at that 1968 British GP at the historic meeting at Silverstone in July.
    It was still in original (i.e. slightly tatty) condition. Rob Walker,
    its entrant, was alongside it signing copies of his new book. Of
    course this was the last occasion when a true private entrant one a GP. 
    
    Rob was most famous as the owner of the cars driven by Stirling Moss to
    a few GP wins, aided and abetted by his (in)famous mechanic, Alf
    Francis. He had the money because he was Walker as in "Johnnie Walker
    Whiskey". Anyone remember who else won a world championship GP in Rob's
    colours? 

RE: .540

After Lord Hesketh ran out of money, the effort sort of split into 2 pieces.  
Frank Williams ran and continued development on the Hesketh 308Cs, and Bubbles 
Horseley and the remainder of the original Hesketh team continued a separate 
development program that resulted in the 308D and 308E (if I recall 
correctly). Horseley's effort lasted a season or two and then ran out of 
sponsorship and folded.  There were still Heskeths kicking around amongst the 
privateers in 1978.

--PSW

                    <<< Note 1178.545 by IOSG::DUTT "Nigel Dutt" >>>
                                 -< Walker's runners? >-
    
    Something tells me that it was Stuart Lewis-Evans. I'll check this
    evening.
    
    Edward

    No - I'm confidently expecting Patrick to supply the answer (a clue
    there).

    Curses, wrong again. Unless I'm mistaken, it was Maurice 'Le Petoulet'
    Trintignant at Monaco in 1958. I cheated. I had to look this one up.
    
    Edward

    While on the topic (that's a clue), who scored the first ever GP
    victory for Lotus? And slightly more obscure, who scored the first ever
    GP victory for Team Lotus?
    
    Edward

    That must have been old Stirling Moss himself (Monaco 1960) for Lotus
    and then Innes Ireland (US 1961) for Team Lotus.
    
    Another piece of trivia re Rob Walker and Stirling Moss. Enzo Ferrari
    rated Moss (alongside Nuvolari) as one of the two greatest drivers ever
    and was always trying to get him as a driver. However, back in 1951 he
    greatly upset Stirling by promising him an F2 drive and then handing
    the car over to someone else at the circuit. At the end of 1961, Moss
    finally said he'd drive an F1 Ferrari as long as it was handed over to
    Walker for him to race under his own colours. Somewhat surprisingly,
    Ferrari agreed to this and it was all set up. Then Moss had his
    career-ending accident before the GP season started in 1962 and so the
    dark blue and white Ferrari never happened. Ironically this was exactly
    the moment when Ferrari stood still for a couple of years and the
    British cars started to dominate.
    
    Follow up trivia question: So when did a works F1 Ferrari race in a
    world championship GP in a blue-and-white colour scheme?

    Spot on Nigel.
    
    The works Ferraris ran under NART colours at the Amercian or Mexican
    race in 196blahblah. I'll go for 1965.
    
    Edward

    OK, except it was 64.
    
    Ferrari threw a tantrum with the Italian authorities because of some
    sports car homologation problem and, not for the only time, he withdrew
    from racing. This was bad timing because John Surtees had a chance of
    winning the world championships. In the end a compromise was reached
    where NART entered the Ferraris in their name and under their colours
    for the last two races of the season (US and Mex), which enabled
    Surtees to clinch the world title, but still meant that Ferrari didn't
    lose face.

    .548�    No - I'm confidently expecting Patrick to supply the answer (a clue
    
    I really didn't know the answer. Well, you always learn ...
    
    On the Rob Walker subject, I know (very well) a guy who owns plenty of
    used racing cars, among which several Lotus and Walker's cars ... if
    anyone happens to travel by Geneva ...

    Still on the Lotus theme, what remarkable feat did the Jim Clark/Lotus
    49 combination achieve in 1967/68? I'm not sure if this is a record or
    a unique achievement, but it's remarkable all the same.
    
    Patrick, would your friend be willing to lend me one of his 'used'
    racing cars?
    
    Salut,
    Edward

    Won its very first race, straight out of the box, no testing, never
    run, brand new engine?
    
    The Lotus 49 with Jimmy Clark was the car that really got me switched
    on the F1 at the age of 10, although I had been interested before. I
    still remember crying my eys out when he died - and cheering at the TV
    watching the 1967 Italian GP. Somehow fitting that Clark's last win was
    the last race for Team Lotus in Green & Yellow.
    
    Paul

    I think the other unusual thing about the Clark/Lotus 49 combination
    over 67/68 was that when they finished they only finished 1st (5
    times).
    
    It certainly won its first race and, although Hill had done extensive
    testing, Clark never even saw the car until the first day's practice at
    Zandvoort.

    Paul's answer is correct, but that also applies to other cars (Brabham
    BT33, Wolf). I'm not sure about Nigel's answer. He may well have
    finished 1st or retired every time.
    
    What I had in mind was the fact that the Clark/Lotus 49 combination led
    every GP it entered.
    
    Ah, memories of the 1967 Italian GP...
    I can still vividly remember watching it on a clapped out TV with the
    venerable Kenneth Wolstenholme (sp?) commentating. I remember being
    heartbroken when Hill and then Clark conked out. One of my indelible
    motorsport memories.
    
    Edward. 

Ed

Are you sure it wasn't Raymon Baxter?

Mike

    You're absolutely right Mike, it was indeed Raymond Baxter. I watched
    very brief edited highlights I have on tape last night. Now, if you
    think that Murray Walker is bad, then you have clearly never suffered
    Raymond Baxter...
    
    Edward

You should try the moron on Eurosport (English) the guy has has much personality
as a dead slug. The F1 reports aren't too bad, at least Wattie and Allard have
some life, but why oh why they insist on using this cretin for everything else
is beyond me. There MUST be better presenters around who have some knowledge.

Mike

    .555�    Patrick, would your friend be willing to lend me one of his 'used'
    .555�    racing cars?
    
    You can certainly try. The last car he has prepared is a Lancia Aurelia
    B20 (racing version) for the Carrera Panamericana. Unfortunately the
    driver (a wealthy mexican) is out with a broken leg.
    
    Apart from the Rob Walker cars I've also seen several Ron Harris green
    and yellow cars.

    re .558
    
    I was wrong, of course the very race you were talking about (Monza 67)
    was the one time the Jim/49 combination finished but not first.
    
    Another Rob Walker trivia question - one of his cars was (I'm pretty
    sure) the only 4-wheel drive F1 car to win a race. Who, what, when,
    where? 

I was there stood on the inside of Lodge corner (my dad was boring and always
went there!)

and I can still see in my mind the effortlessness of Moss.

Oulton Park Gold Cup, can't remember which year, I could look it up tonight but
guess at 64. 

I've even got photos of that day.

It was a damp day rather than streaming rain, but Moss's style and the traction
afforded by the Freguson was far superior to anything else. The other thing I
remember was that it was significantly quieter than anything else. 

Also don't forget that this was a front engined car when everything else had
long since reverted to rear (mid) engine. 

A special day.

	Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know that you will) but I once saw
	a program with the said Moss where he said that he'd copied his
	relaxed style from Nuvolari (sp/name).  He said that this was an
	attempt to put other drivers off, viz: "look at him he's passing
	me and hardly working at it...".  Did he drive with his elbow's
	out?

	Dave

    Stirling's career ended with an accident at Goodwood early in 1962. So
    it can't have been 1964. Mind you, I haven't got a clue when it was.
    
    Edward.

    re -.3
    
    Of course you're right - except you're even older than you think
    because it was 1961 (I think), certainly not '64, which was a couple of
    years after Moss retired (as Edward said).
    
    re -.2
    
    According to Moss, he adopted his "long arm" style from Farina (the
    inaugural world champion of 1950). I think as you were suggesting that
    he was intially impressed simply because it looked so good.
    
    In fact Nuvolari was the total opposite as he had a sitting forwards,
    manic, elbow-waving style. He didn't have much option though as they
    tended to sit the drivers right up against the wheel then in order to
    be ably to apply maximum force to the steering, although having said
    that, he still stood out with his particular style.

    Innes Ireland died of cancer on Saturday. He was 63.
    
    Edward

    
        Re Innes Ireland
    
    Coincidentally  we were just mentioning him in here as the first driver
    to win for Team Lotus back in the US GP of 1961 and the title of my
    last reply here was the title of his autobiography ("All arms and
    elbows"). 
    
    After that one GP win in '61, Lotus promptly fired him and elevated Jim
    Clark to #1, which made Innes somewhat bitter and twisted about Jim for
    several years, although he finally accepted that it wasn't Clark's
    doing. He was one of the "old school" (or should I say "old
    schoolboys"?) like Mike Hawthorn who mixed his racing with some very
    serious hedonism. As a result he could be brilliant but also awful.
    Given some of the crashes he had he was very lucky to have survived in
    that era of racing. Recently he was president of the BRDC, and
    successfully led the campaign to stop Tom Walkinshaw diversifying
    Silverstone's activities into car dealing businesses.

    Changing teams rather, here's one for the weekend.
    
    Nigel Mansell drove a works F1 Ferrari in 1989 and 1990. Who was the
    last British driver to race for the works Ferrari team in F1 before
    him, and when?
    
    Salut,
    Edward.

Derek Bell, 1968, Italy and Watkins Glen
Jonathan Williams, 1967, Mexico
Mike Parkes, 1967, Holland and Spa

Or was it John Surtees since those mentioned above might not have been works
drives?

Either way, it's been a long time.

Dave

    Derek Bell was indeed the man I had in mind. Did you look that up in a
    book? Your encyclopedic knowledge impresses me. I'll have to make them
    harder.
    
    When was the one and only time that JY Stewart drove a works Ferrari?
         
    Edward.

    .572�    When was the one and only time that JY Stewart drove a works Ferrari?
    
    CANAM race ?

    I forget when but I was just looking at pictures of it last night, I'll
    post monday if someone doesn't beat me to it.
    regards,
    JP