Conference vmsnet::car$note:carbuffs

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in "Rules of the Road", but I
decided the, um, spirit of this note is more suitable.  In other words,
this is a bit of a flame.

What's up with drivers who crowd the double yellow, often to the point of
being on or over the lines?

I'm not talking about "cutting" the inside of a curve.  That is almost
universal, and I can't remember a time when it wasn't so.  But it seems
that in the past few years of driving in Massachusetts, it has become
commonplace to see an oncoming vehicle ON A STRAIGHT ROAD being driven
perilously close to, or over, the center lines.  It seemed to start with
pickup trucks, but has now spread to all sorts of vehicles.  Perhaps the
worst thing is that seeing it gives me the urge to respond in kind; to
protect my territory, as it were, via a game of chicken.  Not exactly a
survival instinct!

Do others perceive the same trend?

Does it happen everywhere?  (My experience is mostly in MA "Metrowest".)

Is this some reason this is happening?  Pothole avoidance?  Jogger
avoidance?  Some psychological phenomenon - self-esteem boosting or
full-time road rage?

Perplexedly,
Chuck

    Can't say I mind that trend too much as a bicycle commuter...
    on the other hand, another common thing I see is drivers
    giving me the whole lane while going around blind corners,
    even when I'm plastered all the way to the absolute rightmost
    side of the road.  (In other words, they're essentially driving
    British style around a blind curve).  Yikes!
    K
    

    
    	Some people do it to avoid debris on the side of the road.  Espec-
    	ially on crested roads, the debris [glass/nails/etc] tends to be
    	towards the edge.
    
    	However, crossing the double yellow line is never a good idea when
    	cars are coming the opposite way.  People think nothing of swing-
    	ing around a utility truck, even though they should at least look
    	first and make sure that, possibly, the vehicles that are coming
    	the other way and who have the right-of-way since it is their lane
    	are at least aware that an idiot is cutting into their lane and
    	that someone had better think about moving over or slowing down.
    

i've been here in eastern mass. for almost 20 years and it has
been going on all that time.  i even remember noticing it when
on trips here before that.  i attribute it to incompetence because
i've not been able to think of a better reason.  i wondered if it was
the "famous" old yankee cheapness, driving on the paint to preserve the
road. :)  drive behind one for a few miles and you'll see it also get 
close to the right edge.  the debris or sand on the right usually
wakes them up faster than the center line.

i share the concern about people that pull around a utility truck or
a bicycle.  many seem unable to think about more than one thing at
a time. "how could i be in a headon collision while on the wrong
side of the road? i was leaving lots of room near the truck or bike."

I agree with .409.  I used to be very diligent about staying
as far right as practical but after getting 3 blowouts one
winter from hitting hidden potholes at the side of the road
I changed my attitude.  Now if you are talking about when other
cars are on the road then I drive accordingly.  but otherwise what
difference does it make where on the road you are?  And being 
on the crest of the road means you have more wandering room and
therefore a wider margin of safety.  Then again there
are some that just follow the yellow line because it is easier,
a common malady these days evidenced mostly by people refusing
to change lanes on the expressways, but I digress.

Bob...

    What difference does it make?  It is a great way to invite unwanted
    questioning by the police for one.  Crossing the center line is illegal
    unless you are turning.  Other than that, I see this occur mostly in
    neighborhoods or secondary roads where a line may not exist.  I
    attributed it to just plain rudeness.  

I see it happen alot when ther are bikes on the road. I think it is just because
the drive of the car/truck/van can't judge how far away he/she is from the biker
and give them as much room as possible. I used to bike to work (not this job)
and I quite often saw cars swaying WAY over to the other lane to avoid me.
Believe me, I had plenty of room, probably more than was necessary.

Jim

    it's just lazy drivers.  If ya use the hood ornament like a gun sight,
    just put it in the middle of the double-yellow line and go!  :-)

    
    I think many drivers here are so damn lazy and have no idea how wide their
    cars are or where they are in their lane(s) at most times.
    
    If people can't follow simple rules like "STAY IN YOUR LANE" and "KEEP
    RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS" then they shouldn't have a license.  Noone can
    honestly say that they have to travel anywhere else but the center of a
    lane because of potholes or whatever.  Some people in this area seem to
    think that driving is passive, not active, and they try to put their
    car in whatever place will require the least interaction on their part
    over the course of the trip.  
    
    Ridiculous.
    
    -Mike
    
    

    
    	Yes, I've noticed the lack of judgment ability also.  And not just
    	relative position of their own cars in the lane, but also no concept
    	of closing speed or their own vehicle's ability to merge into traf-
    	fic.
    
    	I'm not saying that everyone should buy Ferraris so that they can
    	merge into traffic easier, but geez, think a little.  That car that
    	is travelling at 50MPH and is now 50 yards away from you will be
    	even with your front bumper by the time you pull across the street,
    	so don't pull out yet.  But the car that's 100 yards away is not
    	close enough to keep you from going now, as long as you accelerate
    	a bit faster than 1MPH/S/S.
    

	I see this type of driving mostly from pickups, because they are
 bigger, and would win the game of chicken especially against the small
 foreign commuter car. Another reason may be because they pay taxes on both
 sides of the road?? ;-)

	I usually give bikers ample margin of safety, because no matter if
 the biker is wrong, swerved in the lane, etc. the driver of the car is at
 fault (remember the always in full control of the car while driving rule),
 plus the biker gets hurt pretty bad.......

        Something that gets my goat is, move to the right when taking a left
 turn, no turn signals, and when people get on a highway. They do not YIELD,
 even if the car in the right lane cannot move over because they have a semi
 next to them..... And if you crowd them they flip you off, or scream colorfull
 language at you.......

	Must be the that's why I have insurance, this car is leased
 mentality, or no common sense/courtesy........

	Enough rambling here.....

	Norm

    
    	Remember that a bicyclist is not a pedestrian, and they don't
    	have "special" rights like pedestrians do.
    
    	If a bicyclist swerves into the side of your car it's not your
    	fault.  If he swerves into the front corner of your car then it
    	could get tricky, just like a multi-vehicle accident.
    

>>    	Remember that a bicyclist is not a pedestrian, and they don't
>>    	have "special" rights like pedestrians do.

Bicyclists *are* considered pedestrians in Massachusetts, that is until a
bicyclist tries to use a "pedestrian-only" sidewalk. 

Jim

    
    	Are you sure about that?  I thought a bicyclist became a vehicle
    	operator once [s]he got onto the bike, and that a bicyclist who
    	is walking a bicycle was a pedestrian.
    

    You are correct Shawn but incorrect in the swerving thing.  If you
    overtake a bicycle travelling in the same direction, it is your
    responsibility to pass safely.  If they swerve into you in the process,
    it's your fault. 

    The law and reality are often two different things... a bicyclist
    in Stow was killed near the airport a few years ago by a gravel
    truck that was passing; no charges filed.  A driver pretty much
    has to be drunk in Mass before any charges are brought.
    .02 K

Re. 421

Probably no charges were filed because it was determined that the 
truck driver did nothing wrong.  There seems to be an implication
in this note that no matter what the circumstances if bicyclist
is hurt then vehicle driver is at fault.

Good point. Of course, I'm sure most of us have been 
forced off the road or have had stuff thrown at us by
motorists more than once. There are a lot of idiot
motorists out there.
 On the other hand, I constantly
see bicyclists doing stupid things:

- Riding on the wrong side of the road (into traffic)
  Mostly kids, but some adults, too.

- Weaving from the center line to the side of the road
  again, mostly kids (and they don't seem to care that
  there's a car behind them, either...)

- "Pack mentality" - Certain groups seem to think that because
  they're on a club "training ride" that they can blow
  through stop signs and traffic lights. They also seem to think
  that their 20-rider pace line has the right to ride in the 
  center of the travel lane and hold up traffic - even though
  they're riding 15 to 20mph below the speed limit (25-30mph
  on a 50mph road).

re .422

       Hey Kratz, get the story straight eh???   The kid 
(Environmental engineer about 22 years old) who got run over 
worked with my wife.

      When he got run over, he was riding with 2 buddies from 
ESNR corp in Acton. One guy went to pass the lead biker. Then 
this guy tried to pass both without looking to see if maybe 
something else was coming up from behind.

       There just happened to be a Mass State trooper behind the 
truck who said there wasn't a thing the trucker did wrong. Nor 
did the any of the family members of the deceased (who was a 
local boy) even try to sue. 

    re .last
    >Hey Kratz, get the story straight.
    
    If you reread my two sentence entry (.422), you'll notice absolutely
    nothing that disagreed with your assessment.
    Kratz

    
    	Well, you certainly made it sound like you were taking the side of
    	the bicyclist.