Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    Midas are apparently in rather hot water financially at the moment
    with a rescue plan being put together to prevent this 1980s Mini
    Marcos (:^)) from disappearing.
    
    The kit car market appears to be in a state of panic at the moment
    with Ginetta changing hands (the Walklett brother's finally
    relinquishing control after over 30 years in control) and Brightwheel
    and Dutton closing down as well.
    
    What's happening? Is it just that there's more competition and that
    the weakest are being killed off in true 'jungle-law' style or is
    it a case that the seemingly bottomless demand for kits is beginning
    to dry up?
    
    Obviously it will need more than just the loss of a few manufacturers
    to sound the death knell of the genre, but seemingly few kit cars
    these days are built for daily use and they are probably one of
    the first luxuries to be given the boot when the mortgage rate rise
    begins to bite.
    
    There has been talk in the press recently of Westfield moving out
    of the kit car market and becoming a low volume producers (a la
    TVR). Are the first signs of a repeat of 1971 (when many kit car
    manufacturers disappeared) there?
    
    Mark
    
    PS Anyone know much about the Costin Amigo? I saw a picture of some
    in one of the classic car mags in Smiths and it looks great.  It
    was a bit like a Marc%s in appearance (guess what?), but with Vauxhall
    (I think) powertrain. Performance is mentioned as 137mph and 0-60
    in 7.6 seconds - Pretty impressive for the early 70s. Anyone know
    how common they were/are?

�	What will the constructional non-conformist motorist do then?

Build off road racing machines perhaps?

A quote I heard from a friend (a senior police officer) recently on the subject
of kit cars: "they are as lethal as firearms, and a darned sight less 
controlled" - he also offered the gem that he had heard that moves were afoot
to prevent *any* vehicle being registered for road use unless it was either
type approved or an agricultural machine. His closing remark was : "if you want 
to build a car fine; but drive it on private ground - preferably a race track"

/. Ian .\

    
    Oh good, yet another chance to stuff the motorist!
    
    Basically it doesn't matter how safe a kitcar is proven to be by
    accepted methods they're all deathtraps , right?
    
    What a load of cr*p!
    
    Many of the major kit car manufacturers have had their cars tested
    by the TUV (German MOT equivalent) and passed with flying colours,
    but your "Senior police officer" friend considers them as dangerous
    as firearms (yet another sweeping generalisation!).
    
    Ian, I'm not getting at you, for passing on this quote, but this
    type of prejudice is totally unjustified. I bet he'd be hard pressed
    to produce evidence to prove that kitcars are 'as lethal as firearms
    , and a darned sight less controlled'.
    
    Mark
    

    
>>    but your "Senior police officer" friend considers them as dangerous
>>    as firearms (yet another sweeping generalisation!).
    
      As with so many things the 'danger' is all to do with the person in
    control (or otherwise)

I entirely agree: I only passed it on for information. Now you know how at least
one officer thinks (do you call this thought? I know he's a friend but sometimes
I think Bill & Ben had more nouse than this guy).

However I suspect it may become a real threat to the home constructor: it 
matters not that examples have been tested and proven safe - that's akin to
a "el cheapo" type approval. These boys in blue will still say that you can't 
prove that *your* kit car is safe. Perhaps they'll insist on you having 
credentials similar to those required to get a firearms manufacturing licence -
prove you are technically competant, pass an exam, get your premises and tools 
inspected and licenced and then they'll let you build a car...

Or perhaps they'll only agree that they are safe if constructed by specialist
assemblers - but doesn't that mean they have to be type approved to be 
registered for the road. Which is where I came in of course...

/. Ian .\

    A WHILE AGO, I HEARD RUMOURS...
    Of the immenent 1992, That they were thinking of baning production of
    fibre-glass kits,without approval, and the use of old cars with
    Cable-only brakes.
    I think it was in a VW motering discussion page or something..
    
    Any truth in this rumour?
    
    Carl.

what does my police friend base his remarks on?

On cars that thieves use that are faster than police cars (remember the argument 
about crooks outgunning the cops?) and that kit cars are essentially race cars, 
which have no place on the roads. That cars are only safe when made by 
professionals, and that cars should only be licenced for the road if they are 
of known quality.

H**l I don't agree with him but this is what he is saying. viz:-

If you want a car to drive on the road then buy a Ford.

If you want a race car then buy a Noble 23 or Caterham 7. But then you 
should only drive it on a race track.

/. Ian .\

Not all kit cars are race cars, the Marlin is quick, but has no track 
pretensions.  The same logic could be applied to any of the powerful production
cars.  They're too fast, keep them on a track.  Other notes in this notes file
have explored why the danger factor of a car is directly related to the driver
and very little else, so I won't go into that now.

As for safety, the type approval scheme does imply safety, but
the tests are not exhaustive (for example; side impact is hardly considered).
The police do not collect accident statistics relating to the types of vehicles
(why not, I ask?), but the insurance companies do.  The fact that I can get
much cheaper insurance on my Marlin than on a Cortina with the same extras 
(branched manifold, Weber carb) is based on hard statistics and not on romance.
A cortina is more likely to have an accident then a Marlin.  Am I likely to
be more dead if I have an accident? The only Berlinetta in any serious accident
wrote off a Volvo estate and was itself repaired, so, maybe I'm safe.

1992 - no one knows what is going to happen, so there are rumours.  If all of
Europe is required to have the same legislation, then what should that be.
European laws relating to kit cars vary from very loose to very tight.  The
French and Dutch have it sewn up very tight, the Germans less so.  Their mini
type-approval does sound very useful and a number of British kit companies
(Westfield spring to mind) have found that it makes comercial sense to put their
cars through that approval scheme.  And don't think that the government don't
know about kit cars - Butcher has just ordered one...

Dave

    Hope YOU can help..
    	.. like the author of note 606, I'm looking for a local (Reading
    area) exhaust/pipe bender who can make me a one-off in stainless
    steel. I already have a stainless side pipe made by Pipecraft in
    Lancing (South Coast), which I have taken off my crunched Dutton
    Pheaton (woooops...)
    	.. any names and addresses would be appreciated
    
    Cheers... Guy   [:-)

how much does the insurance cost then?

I've been quoted #695 for a lotus 7 /caterham 7 1600cc

and...

#400 for a renault 5 GT Turbo

-both third, fire & theft


...Art.

    
    Art,
    
    I believe Derek has a limited mileage cover so that isn't a true
    comparison. I assume the �695 is for an unlimited mileage cover on
    the 7 and the Renault.
    
    I don't know how old you are or what your driving record is like,
    but I pay about �280 for a fully comprehensive cover on the Renault
    and �62 for comprehensive/3000 mile limit cover on the Marcos.
    
    Mark

The Marlin is just under �200 fully comprehensive and no milage limit.  That's
not untypical, I know of two other Berlinettas with insurance of around that
price.  My no-claims is 60%, so that helps.

Dave

    
    
    The Seven is insured for �12,000 replacement value, with a limit of
    3,000 miles. Its TPF&T only, and costs �100 pa, with max NCB and I'm 31
    years old.
    
    I got a quote via the AA from GRE, which was �865 pa, fully comp, no
    mileage limit, with the full NCB.
    
    David.
    

              
    I am looking into making a porsche 356 speedster kit car, There seem to
    have been 4 different kits sprung up in he past 6 or 7 months, ranging
    from 4000 pounds to around 1300 pounds, the later being German TUC
    approved, and British Standards approved, and as it is nearer than the
    rest to my wallets pain barrier, this eems the one I may go for.
    
    Mechanically, they are all based on shortened VW pans and mechanics, so
    this poses not too much problem, as I am fairly confident in this area.
    What I would like to know, is; Has anyone seen in the flesh, any 356
    kits?, or know about the build quality etc of them..etc.
    
    Carl.
    

    re-1
    
    WOW you can get a german TUV approved kit car for �1,300
    
    Grant :-)

At the Sandown kit show last August I saw 3 manufacturers of the speedster kit.
They all looked good, however, I can't remember who made what and I gave all 
my magazines that relate to these kits to a friend who's looking into building
one himself.

One of them offered both a shortened VW base and a chassis option, the chassis
option looked better.

Not much help, sorry...

Dave

    There was a 365 speedster kit at the Crescent one day late last
    year. I don't know whose it was though!
    
    Mark

    Where Mark, where, perhaps we could camp outside a certain Renault Garage
    and wait for it turn up for a service..........~-)
    
    You see.. I have a VW Variant sitting in my drive, not being used...
    looking for a repair on its gearbox(auto-drives but slips a bit) or
    waiting for a kit!
    
    Carl.
    

    
    
    It's nice to see so much activitey in this notes file, I haven't
    contributed for the last few months and haven't had time to read
    whats been going on.
    
    Some of you may remember me, I was building a Cobra replica, the
    kit was going to be by...guess who ?
    
    
    Brightwheel.......
    
    I guess I am one of the lucky ones I was just about to send the
    check in the post when i discoverd thay had gone broke !!!!
    
    I am now in a bit of a quandry...firstly I have to decide wether
    to try and pick up a Viper kit from the for sale ads and try to
    complete it..or wether to switch to another manufacturer...DAX or
    LR
    
    Or wether to change kitsa completley...
    
    I must admit I was a bit shocked to discover thay had gone under,
    i remember reading rave reports about the company, quality of product
    etc...  Does anyone now why they went under ??
    
    More importantly does anyone have any suggestions as to which route
    I should take now....
    
    I might add that I have a completley rebuilt Rover V8 and 5 speed
    manual G.Box, and a complatley refurbished set of Granada running
    gear !!!! plus a few other bits and pieces in the garage...
    
    Anyone got any suggestions for a completley disillusioned potential
    Cobra driver ???
    
    Thanks..Tom

    
    Brightwheel seem to have disappeared under a cloud. There are lots
    of half veiled comments about them being crooks and swindlers, but
    I don't think the truth has surfaced fully yet.
    
    Right, let's see. You've got a Rover V8 and a 5 speed box. Sounds
    look a good basis for a Mantula to me! No danger of them disappearing
    even if the company go bust as there are two healthy clubs to back
    you up (witness how many healthy wooden chassis cars there are)
    and I suspect that Jem Marsh won't make the mistake of over-expanding
    twice.
    
    If you must have a Cobra I'd suggest you pick one of the companies
    that have been going for a long time (even if it does cost you more)
    because they will hopefully have a fairly sound financial base (not
    that it seems to have done the now defunct Midas much good!). 
    
    My advice is to forget buying an old Brightwheel kit, you'll never
    be able to get any backup for it!
    
    Forget the Cobra and invest in a classic in its own right. :^)
    
    Mark

I too was surprised when I heard about Brightwheel.  How was the poor punter to
anticipate that sort of thing.  At least you hadn't parted with money.  I don't
know that much about the different Cobras around, but I would have thought that
the DAX (Tojero) would be the best on the market - and it does seem stable.  I 
also believe that it will take the Rover V8. 

Dave

    
    
    Thanks for the thoughts....I've just mailed a chap in Bolton who
    is advertising in Kit Car (FEB), he says he has a kit using granada
    running gear and Rover V8, he then goes on to say that all deposits
    paid will be kept in a Nat West bank account until kits are collected,
    rather a strange statement to make I thought ???...maybe he was
    involved in the Brightwheel collapse.
    
    I have also contacted a chap who has a Brightwheel kit in his garage,
    he says he is going overseas and has to sell, he wants 1900.00,
    I told him I'd call him back next week...i wanted some time to think.
    He said he had received a letter from Ken Cook..was he ex-Brightwheel
    ?, Ken claims he left Brightwheel to go out on his own to sell the
    accessories for Cobras, he didn't mention the company collapsing
    at all....strange eh ?
    
    My last lead at the moment is the Dorset Car Company ?, recommended
    to me by Kit Car magazine, the editor there suggested that they
    have some of the brightwheel kits and the backup aswell....I phoned
    the chap this morning, he says he does have body/chassis
    kits..identical to the Viper, but it is designed to take cortina
    running gear, he went onto say it can easily be modified to accept
    Granada and Rover parts...all sounded dodgy to me....any body heard
    of this firm ??
    
    Oh yea, tha chap in Bolton is called ;
    
    Mark Phillips Auto Services
    
    
    Does this ring any (alarm) bells for anyone.
    
    
    
    I think I'm going to sit tight for a month at least and see what
    develops, I can potter about in the garage for another month or
    so without getting too frustrated, then I think I'll go and look
    at the LA RAM and the DAX...you see I STILL WANT A COBRA...even
    though Mark keeps trying to put me off. The thing is I don't just
    want to build a kit car..I want to own a COBRA...see, but seriously,
    thanks for the advice, I guess there must be a moral here somewhere
                                                       ..maybe..
    
    I'll let you all know how things progress, meanwhile, If anyone
    hears of any possible solutions to my problem..i.e. any news about
    what happened to all the brightwheel people and parts etc. , please
    post it here...
    
    
    Thanks Tom.

    
    Except my car isn't a kit... 
    
    although it is rapidly becoming one!!!
    
    :^)
    
    Mark
    
    

	Surely it's your lucky day. If you've all the bits
	for the Brightwheel thingy and they've gone bust
	you'll be able to buy one of the existing kits for
	a song. 

	Go to the man with one and offer him �500. He won't
	take it but make sure he knows your number and then
	he'll change his mind.

	Nobody seriously thinks that kit car companies provide
	real backup, so what's the matter they've gone bust!.

	-John
	

Whether or not kit car manufacturers provide back up, depends on the
manufacturer.  Marlin have been around 12 years, I can still ring them up 
and ask questions.  The same is true of many other manufacturers (ie Marcos).
I didn't need much help during the build, but when I rang them up, they were 
very helpfull.  As well as help during building the car 

	However, the best people to ask for real techy details are 
people who have built the car - and you can usually find them through the 
owner's club.  The problem with the high price replica builders (almost by
definition a replica costs more) is that they sell fewer cars to more discerning
people, if they fail to sell one, they're in trouble.  

    
    Nah! Half the fun is finding out where the bits originated from
    and then hunting round scrapyards for replacements!
    
    Mark
    
    PS The wheels are looking great!
    
    

In bumph sent out by Westfield. A report of a comparison by CAR mag of a
Ferrari F40 (Nick Mason's) and a Westfield SE.

Power to weight ratio for:

Lotus Turbo Esprit 160Bhp/ton
Ferrari 328 204Bhp/ton.
Westfield SE 310Bhp/ton. Big 8-).

The only problem the driver had was getting the power down through the
narrow tyres. (185/60 x 13) a sub 6 seconds 0-60 mph time quoted. 

Dave (whos_got_the_Westfield_kit_prices_today. 8-) )

    
    I've come to yet another 'interesting' bit on the Seven. One of the
    options I bought for the car is a black vinyl cover for the boot space.
    The cover is nicely cut and stitched to shape, and comes with a little
    plastic bag full of press studs (the 'female' half). There is also a 
    tool for attaching them. It comes in two parts, one part having a small 
    concave surface, the other an attachment that looks like the 'male' half 
    of the press stud. It does not come with instructions.
    
    I've looked at the ones fitted to the hood, and I'm none the wiser as
    to how they are fitted. Anyone (eg Marlin builders) know how? Do I need
    to cut small circles out of the cover? They need to grip the material
    somehow.
    
    I've fitted the rear wings, the boot carpet and the roll bar to the car 
    now, so I want to fit the boot cover to finish that end of the car.
    
    Next job is to carpet the interior and fit the seats.
    
    Regards, David. 

    
    Carpet? In a Seven? What is he saying!?!?
    
    Mark (2.5 days to go!)
    

    
    Yup. It was another option (what isn't). They are cut to shape and
    trimmed round the edges with vinyl. Very smart.
    
    Tha car also has a heater (yes, another option) and a heated
    windscreen.
    
    David.
    

    
    I don't believe it! I almost typed in "He'll want a heater next"
    as a joke!
    
    They obviously don't believe that all the 7 drivers like to rough
    it anymore. It should make the car a somewhat more practical
    proposition for a long journey too.
        
    Mark

    There are two types of pairs of studs that need to be inserted in the
    bodywork and the cover cloth.
    
    The bodywork should have the male type of studs fitted to it.  Allong
    the leading edge of the boot space the male studs (a single piece)
    should be rivited down holding the cover down (this makes the cover
    part of the car and not removable on mine - yours may be different
    though). Decide where you want the studs, drill holes for the rivets
    and rivet away!  Also - these studs are used to hold down a tonneau
    (sp?) so bear that in mind (put two close to each other in the middle
    for fatening each side of the tonneau).
    
    The rest of the female studs go round the outside of the boot space as
    required - same procedure as above - position/drill/rivet.
    
    The female studs (which are in two halves) are attached to the cover
    itself (match up the positions carefully and take your time to get the
    tension even over the whole cover).  When I fitted these studs I put a
    hole in the cover before inserting the dome part of the stud.  Once
    through the hole, put the other side of the stud on the bit sticking
    through and use your special tool thingie to splay out the tube in the
    middle to joint the two parts of the stud.  The concave bit should fit
    on the outside (dome) and the other bit should fit on the other side to
    splay the tube - apply pressure and there you have it! 
    
     Good luck - Rob

    *WAIT*
    
    Oops - I've just reread your origial note and notced that you already
    have the male studs arround the outside of the boot for the roof, so
    ignore the bit about fitting them.                               
    
    Sorry,
    Rob

    
    I'm always amazed at the speed of response to really obscure
    questions..thanks Rob.
    
    When you say 'apply pressure' do you mean hand pressure, or hitting it
    gently with a hammer?
    
    I won't be making the cover a permanent attachment. I have some 'male'
    studs which will be attached with self-tappers to the leading edge of
    the boot.
    
    If you buy the tonneau cover these days, they supply you with female
    studs with another male bit on the back, so that the tonneau can be
    fitted over the boot cover, or just on its own. I haven't got the
    tonneau, I decided that I'd use the hood if I left it parked somewhere.
    
    Thanks, David.
     

    
    
    
    
    
    
    I've got a tonneau which fits from the base of the windscreen to the
    front lip of the "boot" (Ha Ha - boot!) which also covers the "door"
    openings (so the tonneau covers everything except the boot even without
    the doors off).  If you put female studs on the rear cover (the ones
    with the two parts & dome) and make it replaceable any future tonneau
    won't have anything to clip onto at the back when the boot cover is is
    place - this is OK as it can be clipped down at the sides, but stops
    you from using the half tonneau with the boot cover on.
    
    About the pressure - I would not recommend hitting it with a hammer as
    you can't control the pressure; you can damage the studs fairly easily. 
    If you can put the whole lot in a vise or use a plummers wrench (large
    adjustable pliers, for those who can afford to use a plummer) this would
    probably be safer.
    
    Good luck
    Rob
                      
    

    
    re:.-1 
    
    (Note to other noters, unless you find press studs riveting (ha!) skip
    to NEXT UNSEEN, as its another press stud reply :-)    )
    
    I'm confused now. I thought the female part (ie the bit on the boot
    cover) was made up of just two parts ie the 'dome and tube' which goes
    on the outside, and the insert (with the little metal ring inside)
    which goes on the inside.
    
    I had another look at the 'tool' last night and I can't see how it
    works. There is the concave bit, which acts as a former (no problem)
    and the other part which has a protrusion at each end, labelled 'A' and
    'B'. The end 'A' is a 1/4" high cylinder with a hole through the
    middle. This hole is just the right size to slide over the 'tube' on
    the 'dome and tube' bit. Then what?
    
    The end labelled 'B' looks a bit like the male part of the stud. When
    this bit is placed against the 'tube' it does look like it would cause
    it to collapse and turn outwards if pressure was applied.
    
    So, do I ignore 'A' and just use the concave former, the two parts of
    the female stud, and end 'B' ?
    
    Thanks, David.
    
    PS To use the tonneau cover there are some special female studs with a
    male part, not a dome, on the back to attach the cover to.
    
    
    

    Where are you based - I think it may be easier to have a look.
    
    Rob

Oh for vision, that would be worth a thousand words...

The Marlin's soft top, very soon to be reinstated, the end of February counts
as spring - I can't stand to drive the car with a hard top on and the sun out.
I suppose it was safer during the gales.

The Marlin's studs came in three parts.

The first part, the nipple, fitted into the GRP via its self tapping screw end.
I glued some small pieces of wood behind the GRP and glued the nipple in.  It
hasn't vibrated out in 13K miles.  Still, you say that this is already done for
you.

The next act is to make holes in the right places.  I started in the center at
the back and worked left and right one hole/stud at a time.  This was so that
my hood was nice and taut.  You have to make a hole in the cloth/vinyl.  I did
that by pulling the cloth over the stud and, using a sharp stanley knife, cut
a very small hole using the nipple as a guide.

Having made the hole, you need to fit the female part of the press stud.  Mine
may not be like yours, so bear with me.  There are two bits to thisd and they
fit either side of the cloth.  Squeeze with a pair of pliers (they are close 
enough to the edge) and away you go.

Dave

    I'm trying to remember,but I recall that,having marked on the
    fabric where I wanted the press stud to go,one end of the tool is
    to punch the hole,then use the other end to burr over the centre
     holding the two parts of the studd together(you push them together
    through the hole).I did use a hammer,but GENTLY!
    
    This is difficult to describe,hope it helps.
    
    John
     

    David,
          If it's any use,I could send you a copy of the instructions
    on how to use the tool Caterham give you - it even has pictures!
    What's your mail stop?
    
    John
    

John,
	my mailstop is REO2-G9H, send away.  Actually, the weather (apart from
huricanes) is looking pretty good, maybe you'll get away without needing any
covers...

Dave

    		-< Kit registration..HOW/WHAT/WHERE??? >-
    
    I'm currently building a Sylva Striker kit car (Lotus 7 look-a-like)
    using a Fiat 124 sport twin-cam as the power plant,and thought the
    car will not be completed for a month or two, can anyone give me
    advice/hints/tips on getting it registered?
    
    I understand that the car will have to be 'looked over' before it
    is M.o.T'd, but who do I contact/pay/bribe?
    
    Any advice would be appreciated..
    
    Guy    [:-)
    
    P.S. Have found someone who will make a one-off stainless exhaust
    for the Striker in the Reading area (well Woking actually). I have
    been quoted 380-450 pounds for a 4 into 1 manifold connected to
    my existing stainless side-pipe. It is expensive I know but...
    
    they are..
    			Cheeseman Products,
    			Monument Way,
    			West Ind. Estate,
    			Woking, Surrey.
    			(0483) 768188
    
    All I need now is a method of getting the kit to Woking by 23rd
    April..
    
    Anyone know of a car transporter firm/recovery firm who can help?
    Cheap if possible.. I will then have the exhaust to pay for!!

    
    This has been discussed quite recently, - anyone know which note it's
    in? 
    
    Elaine

    re. 198
    
    Have a look in Note 448 for tips on registering cars.
    
    
    
    T
    

    
    re .198
    
    I'm still going through the process (see note 448.last few) After
    sending all the paper work of to the LOCAL Vehicle registration office,
    I got a letter back enclosing my cheque, MOT and insurance stating that
    they were not needed until after the vehicle had been inspected and
    that the Police (agghhhhh!) will be contacting me shortly to arrange
    for an inspection.
    
    That was on the 20th March. I've still not heard from the Police. I've
    phoned the Vehicle registration office and they've said there's no more
    they can do, I just have to wait.
    
    The Seven is now up on axle stands in my garage and covered over with
    dust sheets. Its so frustrating as I've had to pay to insure it and the
    weather the last few weekends has been ideal for driving it. At this rate 
    I won't get to bring it in to the office before I leave DEC in a fortnight.
    
    I don't know if the inspection is a 2 minute glance by the local plod
    to check the chassis / engine numbers (as suggested by the Vehicle
    registration office) or a visit by someone with a full working
    knowledge of the Construction and Use regulations.
    
    If you need any advice on filling form V55/3 in, give me a call.
    
    David.
    

    
    When I got my 7 registered (on Q plates) from the Reading office they
    said that either I could wait until an inspector visited the area or
    take the car to them - they didn't even metion the police.  Is this a
    new way to improve 'community policing' ??
    
    Rob

I registered the Marlin in Reading, the inspector came from the vehicle
licensing centre.  No police involvement.

Dave

Anyone going to the Stoneleigh show at the weekend want to share car / petrol
costs?

Does anyone know *exactly* where it is?

Scott.  7 830 6896

Yes, I'm going, but there will not be room (the Marlin isn't very big).  I'm
also not sure which day I'll be going.  As for the route, check out a kit 
magazine.  Personally, I go via Oxford...

Dave

No, I'm not trying to scroungs a lift, I'm offering one.  Anyone who wants to go
to Stoneleigh is welcome to come with me, leave early Sunday, come back late
Sunday.

Scott

    is stoneleigh near coventry?
    is it at the royal showgound there ?
    
    ...art

This is a confusing show.  It is called the Stoneleigh show, but is held at
Kennelworth.  That is, the Royal Agricultural Showground just near Coventry.
I will be going on Monday, look out for a cream Marlin Berlinetta (Q 906 WRX)
in the Marlin Owner's Club area.

Dave

Can anyone suggest a good route from Reading?
Particularly *exactly* where the Showground is, as I don't know that part of the
country at all.

Scott

            <<< MARVIN::DISK$ROBIN:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CARS_UK.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -< CARS_UK conference >-
================================================================================
Note 1061.0                    here goes.........                        1 reply
YUPPY::MCINTYRE                                      28 lines   4-MAY-1990 13:26
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    Well..some of you may remember me, I was building a Cobra last year
    (actually only assembling all the donor parts etc.) with a view
    to using the Brightwheel Kit, as most of you know Brightwheel went
    broke around christmas and left me in a bit of a quandry...there
    aren't too many kits based on Granada running gear....ayway back
    to the point...I said I would update this conference when there
    was some development and there has been,
    
    I have just secured an Granada based Cobra kit for 1600.00 from
    a kit dealer in Bolton. I believe the kit to be the same (or almost
    identical to) the Brightwheel. 
    
    I spent a lot of time searching for second hand kits, but had no
    joy, so I have opted for a new kit.....I expect to pick it up in
    8 weeks...the company has a good build manual and can offer most
    (probably all by the time I need tham) of the accessories necessary
    for the build and at prices cheaper than most other I have come
    across...I have also managed to get hold of some kit owners and
    one chap in particular who builds these for a living, he has been
    most helpfull. The kit I tried was Rover powered and immaculatley
    finished..all in all the kit appears to be a goodun'...
    
    I'll be updating you further as things develop..and no doubt I'll
    have some more questions for the experts in this conference....
                                                           
    Speak to you all soon.......

    If you're looking for a wiring loom for the 'Cobra' an old friend
    of mine used to make them up.
    
    I'll see if I can dig up his number.
    
    
    Tony

    
    
    That would be very useful...I might be able to put some more work
    his way if he is interested, the kit manufacturer is looking for
    a supplier for these items aswell...
    
    Thanks

    
    
    Just a couple of quick questions...
                                    
    Does anyone out there have any recomendations regarding tools,
    particularly socket sets....i.e. which make
    
    
    In recent months I have broken most of my old sockets...they were
    varying makes..nothing special, I have been buying odd sockets to
    replace those broken.....again nothing special..these haven't broken
    yet...so is it just age that breaks sockets..or is there real value
    in the brand names...??
    
    One last point...what size drive would you buy..i'm thinking of
    getting inch or half inch sockets from now on...but am wondering
    if there is a real advantage to this ???
    
    Any advice..suggestions ???? 
    

Regarding sockets, �-inch drive ones are the heaviest-duty.  Also torque
wrenches use �-inch sockets.  Also, you can get adaptors to let you use 3/8 and
� inch drive sockets with a �-inch ratchet / torque wrench.  But I haven't seen
any the other way round.

Concerning which make, get a good brand name.  Stanley and Draper spring to
mind.  Or try the Halfords range.  They do two types: 1-year and Lifetime
guarantee; the latter look good value.

What I did with tools was to buy a bulk set quite cheap.  90% of the tools are
used 10% of the time, so will last for ages.  The other 10% of the tools are
used 90% of the time, so will break, at which point I replace them with good
quality ones.

This way I don't waste money on high-quality tools that I hardly ever use.

If you go to the right place, you can get brand-name tools quite cheap.
Accessory stands at car shows (particularly kit car shows) for example.

Hope this helps,

Scott

My old socket set was a cheapo 1/4" drive that I used on my motorbikes.  When
I built the Marlin, these rapidly fell apart (anyone want some perfectly round
sockets), as did the original socket drive.

So, I bought a nice 1/2" set of draper sockets plus the odd big one that I 
needed.  These were perfectly adequate to dismantle a Cortina and build a 
Marlin.  Oh, and maintain said Marlin for nearly 3 years.  This includes using
them with my impact screwdriver and large torque wrench.

As for general advice, well, you asked for it.  Buy a trolley jack and some
stands.  They're worth their weight in gold.  Much better than messing about
with scissor jacks and safer.  I hired any specialist tools that I needed
such as hoists and spring compressors.  Buying cheap tools is not on, hire
the right gear, it's much better.

Good luck,		Dave

PS Was it you that one of my colleagues found under my car one lunchtime?

    I like Draper socket sets as well - mine has been used on many a
    rebuild, with not a single breakage.  Get 1/2 inch drive 3/8 drive isnt
    up to repeated heavy loads.
    
    For ultra high quality (but very expensive) try Britool sockets.
    
    
    John

    Useful piece of advice
    
    A. don't buy a tool unless you need it
        
    B. If you need it buy it.
    
    ( addendum  for the big expensive ones....)
                                               
    B. If you need it hire it                  
                                               
    C. Buy it after you have hired it twice    
                                               
                                               
    DejW                                       
                                               

    
    Personally I swear by Snap-on, tough, well made and have a *genuine*
    lifetime guarantee.
    
    They are a wee bit expensive though, and can only be bought from the
    travelling vans...

...can anyone recommend a *cheap* place to hire portable generators.  The best
I've found so far is �38 per day.  It has to be 13A @ 240V AC.

Scott

re .220

50 Hz? or will 60 do?

/. Ian .\

    Sockets and spanners ?
    
    Buy Britool.
    
    I can honestly swear (and often do) that my sockets have never rounded,
    my jaws have never spread, and if the nut is 8mm and the tool has
    8mm stamped on it then thats what's going to fit - first time,
    everytime !
    
    T

     Buy the better quality, and save yourself from damaged limbs and
    skinned knuckles, which will be the result when your el-cheapo's let go
    under heavy load. (I speak from experience - once is enough!!)
     As far as 1/2 drive or 3/8 drive goes, I have found, having both, that
    I preferentially use the 3/8 drive, (Stahlwille made) because they are
    much handier in use. However, the 1/2 drive is best for bigger jobs.
     Never use ordinary sockets with impact drivers, even the best will
    break.
    Regards, Ray. 

Putting things on and off many times?  Good heavens!  I will admit that my
car is a hobby as well as transport and that I do play, but I doubt if I 
dismantle mine as often as you do yours.  However, back to the point.  To save
nuts vibrating loose, I use a torque seal (BL/ROVER/AUSTIN).  This is good
stuff and seems to work.  I've only just started to use this since one of the
two nuts holding the rear of my (new) stainless exhaust vibrated loose and
fell off.  This wouldn't have been so bad, but the exhaust waving about sheared
the other bolt.  Result: one dent in the heat shield (I wondered what that 
loud thump was) and a rattly exhaust that need re-hanging.  The nuts are now
glued on.  By the way, you can get them off, they're not super-glued on!  
Despite some press-on driving to and from the kit show (say 200 miles) nothing
fell off.  I've now gone around the rest of the car and glued sundry nuts
that have had a habit of working loose.

Dave

PS  I know that you shouldn't use a socket with an impact screwdriver, but I
was desperate.  You know the way it is, all the nuts but one come off, but the
last one is stuck.  Despite overnight soaking in plus gas and heating it with
a hot air paint stripper, nothing.  I even had a large spanner attached and
my full weight, ie feet off the ground, on it.  This was a good trick as the
nut was the last one holding some bit of rear suspension on.  The car was on 
its side at the time.  So, I snapped and used my impact on it, its got a 
half inch drive too.  I won't do it again, honest.

Dunno if 60Hz will do, I'll check.
I need it to run a MIG welder and an electric drill.

Scott

    
    
    Two things.......
    
    one thanks for the tips about tools..seems like inch drive might
    be overdoing things a bit.....and only buy what you need..when you
    need it. Any one got any tips for removing a hub nut from a rear
    suspsnsion arm..when the arm is not attached to anything ???? I
    have seem people use scaffold poles to get extra leverage...good
    or bad????
    
    second thing
    
    can you buy large quantities of lock nuts/bolts fasteners etc. ???
    anywhere in London/SE England......only I want o make sure I use
    the correct bits when assembling the kit...
    
    Thanks

or accessory stands at kit car shows
or the Part-X catalogue, also advertised in kit car mags.

Scott

     re: .216
    
    No Dave.. it was me..
    
    Like the stainless rear pipe.. have just got the Striker back from
    Woking with a full stainless pipe.. looks damn mean.. (should do
    at the price..)
    
    Guy 	[:-)
    

Guy (and anyone else),

	Guided tours are available on request.

Dave

PS	I've found other people under my car too.  Once found a bus load of
Spanish tourists queuing to have their picture taken sat on my running boards.
Oh, and I was once photographed by a pair of Japanese tourists as I came off
the roundabout outside DEC Park.  It's a funny old world.

how much is 'new car tax' as applied to kit cars? 

(ie. to register them as a new car)


...art

To register a kit car as "new", and get current plates rather than Q plates
will cost several hundred pounds.  The car has to be built from *ALL NEW* parts,
and you have to have the receipts to prove it.

This makes the car more expensive to build than if you pick up sundry bits
from scrapyards, or use recon engines, etc.

Why worry about a Q plate?  The car will attract attention anyway.  If it really
bothers you, you could register it with Q, ship it to Ireland and re-register it
there, then ship it back and register it in England with a "proper" number
plate, which would probably be cheaper than new car tax.

Scott

i wanted to know 'cuz i'm thinking of buying a new (nearly built) caterham 7
& they state that a current reg is available if i pay this 'new car tax' so i 
needed to know how much it would add to the cost of the car...

...art

ps. i guess things would be *much* cheaper if i built the car myself... wonder
    if i could join some vehicle repair type class somewhere in Reading...?

Is it a Caterham 7 De Dion?  This is a kit supplied by Caterham containing
*EVERYTHING* to build the car, and all brand new.  That costs �7500 + VAT, I
think.  Don't know how much you should expect to pay for a part-built one
though.  New car tax is approx. 10% of the car price.  There's also the
registration fee, about �85, I think.

This poses a problem.  Would the price here be the price Caterham sold the
original kit for, or the price you pay the current owner?

As there has been an intermediary are you sure you can still register it as
*NEW*.  I know there are funny rules that prevent kit car companies selling
ready-built cars unless they are already registered.

I would check with the LVLO where you would register it (as each one seems to
have a different version of the rules) before buying...

A word of caution.  If you don't have a garage, don't waste your time
thinking you can rent one to build the kit in; I've tried and failed.  On the
other hand, if you have a garage, can I rent it to build a Moss Roadster in?

Hope this helps,

Scott.

    
>>    can you buy large quantities of lock nuts/bolts fasteners etc. ???
>>    anywhere in London/SE England......only I want o make sure I use
>>    the correct bits when assembling the kit...
    
    
      Derek has found a company in Newbury who supply all sorts of
    nuts/washers etc - in any quantity you like.  I'll get him to add the
    address/ phone number.

completely knocked down kit (70hrs build time)

				price    VAT      car tax  total
ford 1600 GT 	(84 bhp)	8344.00  1251.60  700.33   10295.93
1600 GT sprint  (110 bhp)	8806.00                    10865.73
1700 super      (135 bhp)	9376			   11565.73

component (20hrs build time)

1600 gt 			9144.00			   11282.60
1600 gt sprint			9606.00			   11852.40
1700 super sprint		10176.00		   12555.40

seems to cost ~1k for caterham to build the car for you...


...art

�1000 for 50 hours labour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think I'm in the wrong business!

.239>>�1000 for 50 hours labour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seems pretty cheap to me - 20 pounds per hour.  Work out what your own fully
loaded labour rate is and then figure that these guys aren't as expensive as
they seem.

    re: .237
    
    Buy stainless.. may cost a little more but considering the total
    outlay of the kit.. !!
    
    Place in Brighton (124 Portland Road, Hove, Sussex, BL3 5QL..
    0273 - 779864) will have any size/shape/thread of zinc plated/
    steel/stainless nut/bolt/screw/fastner/washer/grommet available..
    
    I have found them very useful during the previous build up of my Dutton
    Pheaton, and the current Sylva Striker.. (bumper mixed pack of
    stainless nuts'n'bolts for 20 quid)..
    
    Have a mail order catalogue in return for a 6x9" SAE..
    
    Guy 	[:-)

    Try Hampshire Nut and bolt company in Basingstoke they have an
    INCREDIBLE selection of High Tensile, SS, UNC, UNF, Whit, metric
    etc.....
    
    Also Newbury Fastenings in Thatcham......
    

    HELP.. I've got no loom..
    
    	The build up of my Sylva Striker kit is grinding to a halt..
    due to the wiring. Engine/gearbox/alternator/starter/clocks are
    all Fiat 124 Sport.. ignition switch is an after-market Lucas 4
    position switch..
    
    	The Haynes manual wiring diagram is very comprehensive and I
    can successfully trace all the necessary wires (fuse box/alternator/
    starter/coil..isn't that it!!), back to the usual Fiat ignition
    switch. All wires are labeled either end, but the problem lies with
    inter-connecting the Lucas ignition switch with the Fiat circuit.
    
    	The 4 terminal Lucas switch has 4 positions..
    
    Position 1.. (for stationary lights I think.. won't use this)
    
    		Terminals 1 and 4 are connected.
    
    
    Position 2.. (only position when the key can be inserted/removed)
    
    		Off.. all terminals isolated
    
    
    Position 3.. (presumably ignition circuit on)
    
    		Terminals 1,2 and 4 connected
    
    
    Position 4.. (momentary position - starter motor engaged)
    
    		Terminals 1,2 and 3 connected
    
    
    	Basically, what I would like is help on what wires from
    alternator/starter/fuse box go to what terminal on the ignition
    switch! (Haynes manual wiring diagram available through internal
    mail).
    
    	Any help appreciated, I may even learn something!!
    
    Cheers..
    
    Guy		[:-)

    Dave..
    
    	I have no loom.. tried to find one from a breakers, but trying
    to find a loom for a 20 year old car ain't so easy.. will just wire
    it up muself (HOPEFULLY!!)
    
    	Not got an Autolec cut off switch yet.. will consider this at
    a later date..
    
    	Have checked out your recommendations for the switch and it
    looks right (as far as I can tell).. I'm nearing that stage where
    the initial fire-up will take place.. can't wait..
    
    	Cheers for the speedy reply..
    
    Guy 	[:-)
    

Umm, I haven't answered yet, but thanks for the thanks.  What I did was to
take the old 'tina loom (carefully labelled on dismantling) and modify it as
I went along.  Many hours spent replacing burnt out fuses and burning myself
with a soldering iron.  Anyhow, that's not much help to you, is it?  However,
I have a friend who is currently building a Sylva Clubman, also for racing and
also with a fiat 1600 twin cam in it.  It seems like you two should get in
contact.  He lives in High Wycombe, not too far.  So, if you want his number,
then give me a buzz on 831-4380.


Dave

    Dave/Derek/onlookers..
    
    Woooooopppps!!
    
    Guy		[:-(

Amazing wondrous joy and happiness, I've found a garage in which to build a car.
The car in question is the Moss Roadster, which for those who don't know looks
a bit like an MG TF or a Morgan.

"Donor" componenets can either be Ford Escort Mk II, with Cortina front
suspension, or Triumph.  The question is, which should I choose?

The problem with Ford is: (a) it's Ford, (b) the way the chassis is arranged I
can't fit an anti-roll bar (unless I have one custom made)

The problem with Triumph is (a) price, (b) availability.

So questions to the panel:
Are triumph parts (engine 1500cc spitfire) going to be much dearer overall than
Ford.  I'll be buying recon engine/ gearbox, etc, not using worn out units from
a donor car.

Do spitfires have anti-roll bars?  Or are they easily available?

In ten years time, which of Ford and Triumph parts are going to be easiest to
get hold of?  I suppose there are more Ford parts around now, but more Triumph
enthusiasts to ensure a continuing supply.

Finally, any comments on which would be the better (mechanically and ease of
maintenance) components to use?

Scott

Is this a sensible idea:

Take a cortina anti-roll bar, cut a section out of the middle, and weld the
two halves together (it would then be the right size for the Moss).

Or would it be likely to snap at the weld?  I'm not sure whether welded joints
like torsional stress.

I agree with the comment that Ford bits are a bit agricultural, yep, they're
definitely sturdy.  The Marlin (all Ford 'tina) doesn't have the front roll
bar fitted.  The springs are lowered (either lose the first two coils or
buy some specially).  The one thing the front end doesn't do is roll.  The
roll bar was needed on the Cortina because of the whole rubber mounted front
suspension assembly, once it is solidly mounted, it's not neccessary.

As for parts availability.  I would have thought that Triumph parts are 
starting to only get available through owner's clubs and the like.  Cortinas
can be got in scrappies and dealers.  However, once the Ford supplies dry up,
will the owners clubs supply as well as the Triumph owners clubs do?  As far
as engines go, the last Ford with a Pinto was built only last year, so the
bits for one of those should be around for quite a while.

Maintainance, very easy with Ford bits, and the bits are cheap.

Good Luck,

		Dave

I rang Moss; answerphone!  Hopefully they'll be able to give some advice when
they're in.

Problem now is loads of places can supply Triumph engines and Ford suspension,
but Ford engines don't seem too thick on the ground.  I intend getting a recon
unit outright; does anyone know a supplier.  (Other than Ford, 'cos they're
expensive!)

Also, how reliable are Triumph overdrive units?  They're not cheap s/hand, and
I'm wondering if / how much maintenance they need.

Scott

    
    I have front hubs/disks/calipers/top and bottom wishbones from a
    Spitfire/Herald Vitesse which used to keep the front of my Dutton
    Pheaton off the tarmac.. also a steering rack and perhaps front
    shocks and springs..
    
    .. no guarantee given but you can have the lot if any use..
    
    Guy 	[:-) 

Thanks, Derek,

But as far as I know the names you give specialise in high-power (hence
high-price) versions of the Kent engine.

If you know of somewhere that will sell me a standard recon 1600 engine block
for about �300, preferably in the Reading / Wokingham / Slough area, that would
be more useful.

Ta, Scott.

	I thought there must be something somewhere about kit cars.

	I've just bought an NG TC V8, and as I don't know much about cars
	- well, I can usually find the petrol tank - the guy who's sold it
	to me has volunteered to to the servicing, or any work, for free.
	(Just parts cost).

	He is quite a good friend, and lives just around the corner.

	I'd never thought of buying a kit car before, but this looked so
	cute I just couldn't resist it.

	I 'spose I'll join the NG owners club if there is one. Is there anyone 
	else around DECpark that has one of these?

	Heather

I don't have an NG, there sure is an NG owners club (see some kit mags, the
seller should have the odd hundredweight spare).  However, I'll show you
my toy, if you'll show me yours.

Dave	(DEC Park II, I use my car for work, so any day'll suit me).

	I'll have it on the road at the end of this week, or the begining
	of next - I hope. We have managed to get it to a
	garage for the MOT, thence to Minster st. to get the thing inspected, 
	(and that's a whole story in itself) however, they are now using the 
	postal service to get the paperwork to Swansea, so we can get a number
	and officially registered.............I'll never understand this!

	It will be on display in the Red Lion in Theale, along with the owners
	own red one - which is for racing. I think there's going to be a few
	people there with NG's on Sunday 3rd June (Tho not me 'cause I'm going 
	to a Christening-just my luck).

	So, I'll show you mine when I can get my little pinkies on it - I have a
	photo which I've shown Guy, he's shown me his photos too!

	Heather

	NGs
	---

	I knew a man who built up a couple of the original NGs. These
	were based on MGB coponents. The first one he put up for sale
	and got a very good price for it, so he decided to build the
	later TF model. This one however he couldn't sell at all. He
	must have been lucky with the first one since the second was
	much better.

	I hope they've improved the kit, it was terribly crude originally.
	A V8 one sounds quite swish, not heard of them before.

	Suspension bits.
	---------------

	I'd go for the Triumph bits. They're much better supported on
	account of the very wide useage in sporty type cars. Apart from
	the Triumph sports models, many others used them ie. Most Lotus
	models, Marcos and other similar ilk cars. I'm mystified that the
	kit will use either since the Triumph stuff is double wishbone
	whereas I thought the Ford was McPherson strut.

	-John

Thanks for the Triumph advice, but it's too late.  After much deliberation,
I've ordered a chassis for Ford bits (picking it up in 4 hours!).  These days,
s/hand triumph bits, although maybe more "sporty", are showing their age.  Also,
I know Ford bits from my Escort days and they're cheaper.

Yes Escorts are McPherson strut; the kit uses Cortina front suspension, which is
wishbones.

Re: NG. Yes the early kits were very crude, didn't even have doors.  The kit
side of NG has been taken over by Pastiche Cars, and they seem to be doing very
well.  I don't know if NG (Nick Green, the original designer) still exists as
a company.  For a while they were offering part-built cars, but I have heard
nothing lately.  Does anyone know what became of the NG Sedan?

Heather, which model is the "TC"?  I thought there were only two styles; the TA
with bicycle-wings and the TF with long wings / running boards.

Re: Moss answerphone.  No-one was at the factory yesterday morning because half
the full-time staff had his appendix out rather suddenly at the weekend!  I hope
he's back at work soon to lay-up the kit I've ordered!

Scott

     Has anyone heard of the "METRINCH" range of sockets. These are
    supposed to fit all sizes of metric and imperial nuts with each socket
    fitting two or three nut sizes. The driving part of the socket pushes
    on the flat parts of the nut, not the corners. Supposedly rounded and
    butchered nuts are no problem. Just one problem - they seem quite
    expensive.
    Regards, Ray. 

What is the general opinion of the Diahatsu Sportrack? I have put a quote in 
for teh DX (soft top) and the EL (hardtop luxury version).

Does anybody in DEC have one, I havn't seen one in DECpark, but if there is
can I have a test ride please?

How do these things handle on and off road?

Simon

    A friend of mine has on order a Lotus 7 look alike from Robin Hood
    Engineering (Notts).
    
    He has dismantled a Dolomite Sprint for the neccessary bits.
    
    Any advice??
    

    help!!
    
    
    	.. I started up the Striker over the weekend.. it works.. drove
    it up and down the road minus bonnet/screen/etc with wires hanging
    all over the place..
    
    	.. but I need your help.. re: alternator/voltage regulator..
    
    	.. the alternator has 3 outputs.. 
    
    		o	positive (labeled 30) two wires.. one to battery
    and one to ignition.. I assume this is how the battery gets charged..
                                               
    		o	another (labeled 67) goes to no.67 on voltage
    regulator other terminal on v.regulator (labeled 15) goes into fuse
    box.. WHY/WHAT for please explain how the alternator and v.regulator
    works...
    
    		o	sense wire for ignition warning light.. I think
    I'm OK with that one..
    
    Regards..
    
    Guy			[:-)
    

Is it a Lucas 3 terminal alternator?

If so, the way I've always seen them wired is: one wire to battery ignition, one
to ignition light, no connection to other terminal (which is actually connected
internally to the first terminal).  Was it connected to the voltage regulator
when you started?  Or have you done this?

Is the voltage regulator for the fuel / temp gauges (follow the wires from the
fuse box and see where they go)?  If so it's nothing to do with charging; see
note 966 for details.

Lucas alternators have an internal voltage regulator for charging.  Femsa/Bosch
ones have an exteranl regulator, with three further terminals on the alternator
connecting to it. (ie the first three terminals are the same as the Lucas one).

Hope this helps,

Scott

What's the difference between UNF and BSF bolts?

Scott

    Basically, the thread, although the relationship between the diameter
    of the bolt and the size of the head may differ as well.
    
    I used to work at an agricultural engineers that sold everything from
    nuts and bolts to combine harversters.
    
    UNF stands for Unified Fine
    BSF stands for British Standard Fine
    
    (Extra useless info follows)
    
    UNC stands for Unified Coarse.
    
    Whitworth has exactly the same thread as UNC (ie nuts will fit bolts
    and vice versa) - apart from the 1/2" size. However, the size of the
    head on Whitworth nuts/bolts was larger than the equivalent UNC ones.
    
    A 3/4" Whitworth spanner was a spanner to fit the head of a 3/4"
    Whitworth bolt, not 3/4" across flats.
    
    Whitworth was sometimes known as BSW.
    
    
    Graham

>Re: NG. Yes the early kits were very crude, didn't even have doors.  
	
	Nope, no doors, makes life interesting climbing in and out........
	especially with the soft-top on, and a tight skirt....

>Heather, which model is the "TC"?  I thought there were only two styles; the TA
>with bicycle-wings and the TF with long wings / running boards.

	No long running boards............I have it with me today if you want
	a look,   I know that the design of the engine was done by the guy who 
	built it, with no help from Nick Green. When it was completed, and
	beating Nick Greens own cars, he had a few snoops look around, and 
	started to send out info to people who wanted a V8, to base it on this 
	design ..................didn't know people were so funny!
	(The guy who built it is an engineer).

	Alan said it is a Rover 3.5 V8 engine, he also metioned Buick. (Does 
	this make sense?)

	Heather..............who had loadsa fun this weekend with the new toy!

    Re .273 ......
    
    I have a little book with all the thread details that you could
    want in it. Covers BA (British Association), BSW (British Standard
    Whitworth), BSF (British Standarad Fine), ME (Model Engineers),
    UNF (Unified National Fine), UNC (Unified National Coarse), ISO
    Metric (Fine and Coarse). Gives all the clearance and tapping sizes
    for holes and details of the thread forms too. Also has a handy
    conversion scale that accomodates all the "Standard" metric and
    imperial sizes manufactured.
    
    Mail me if you want a copy.

        hi

        Being dutch, and living in Paris for 3 years now, I reckoned
        it was time for me to get out of the every-day-car, and
        to try something different - like a Cobra replica.
         
        After some initial research, and a loss of L3 to the 
        then dying Brightwheel, I've found a dutch firm importing
        the Pilgrim Sumo's (yes - I'd like a left-hand drive).
        They seem to be nice, especially the Sumo Mk2, using 
        Ford Granada running gear, and the 2.9i Ford Scorpio
        engine.
        They can provide me the kit, all parts needed and if wanted 
        also other services like delivering a roling chassis or
        even a complete build-up.
        They already have managed to get a type-approval for the 
        Sumo Mk1, and are going to try to get it for the Mk2.

        I would like to know if anybody has any experience, or heard 
        of such, regarding the Sumo. If so, I would greatly appriciate
        any info. Or if someone could give the address of the UK owners
        club ...

        Thanks in advance,
        Ruuf Vandenberg @ evt
        dtn (7) 858 5779

>Heather, which model is the "TC"?  I thought there were only two styles; the TA
>with bicycle-wings and the TF with long wings / running boards.


	Aha, I have no answers, but Alan has loads.........

	There was a TC.

	Standard engine is 1.8.  (The 3.5 goes like a bat-out-of-hell)

	20 kits sold, and less than 10 completed, two by Alan, who sold me
	this one. If anyone knows of a part-built NG TC kit that someone wants 
	to sell, then Alan is looking. (That didn't take him long - must be 
	addicted :-)  ).

	The TC was discontinued when Pastiche(?) took over from Nick Green.
	- It was considered to difficult to be built as a kit, and therefore
	not too saleable. (As above sales figures bear out)

	They still do one - to order only - and is called the Gladiator.

	Heather  (who might even be knowlegeable about this after a while)

Are Sierras rear wheel drive?

As early Sierras had the Pinto engine, can you bolt the Sierra 5-speed box
(assuming it's a conventional box for RWD) to the back of one?

What engines do Sierras have now?  Is it the same size (external dimensions) as
a Pinto.  Anyone have the spec on it?

Scott

    I get the impression that the Sierra gearbox is just that. The 
    bellhousing is a seperate unit. What you would need to do is find
    a bellhousing to mate up with the engine you choose.

    I know that the Sierra box is maked up to the Kent engine (assuming
    it is a Kent engine) for the Cateram 7.

  Mark

The bell housing can be used to mate a Sierra gearbox to a pinto.  They're the
same engine as the OHC Cortinas, just more electronic bits.  The later Sierra
engines are not radically different.  Mainly the head.  It's certainly been
done, I've seen several Marlins with 5 speed boxes from Sierras.

Dave

    
    
    Has anyone out there got any recomendations regarding the treating
    of sandblasted components (wishbones, crossmember etc.)...??
    
    I want to make sure that these bits are properly protected after
    blasting..I don't want to see any rust for at least 5 yrs....
    (optomistic???)....
    
    Anyone know of a wonder spray/paint ???
    
    Regards
    
    Tom

    Don't know where.. or how.. but..

>>    Has anyone out there got any recomendations regarding the treating
>>    of sandblasted components (wishbones, crossmember etc.)...??
    
	Bondaprimer is very good. Use as a base for whatever final finish
	you want.

	I wouldn't recommend the famous "Hammerite" because it cracks
	off too easily.

	-John

Powder coating or zinc plating work a treat (however, I've no idea where to
get such things done).  My chassis is hammerited (under- and top- coat) and
then liberally coated with underseal and/or waxoyle.  After 2.5 years and 3
winters, it's certainly not rusty.  Hammerite is brittle and will chip and
crack (if your chassis flexes, which mine doesn't), so, no doubt powder and
zinc coatings would be better.

Dave

   I used "red lead" as a primer/undercoat and a paint recommended for 
   use on wrought iron gates as a top coat. This was for the back axle
   of the MGB. It looks OK and appears to be lasting well.

  Mark

What about "epoxy coating"? 
Is it a plastic covering like you find outside buildings on railings and 
stairs? 
I got a catalogue from Westfield and they give this as a option when you
order. Extra �175. If it protects the space frame chassis for up to five
years, it must be worth the money. 

Has the panel any comments on this treatment?

Dave (Whos_wife_says_the_house_extension_comes_first)

I'm using Comma "Stop Rust" primer on the Moss chassis and other bits.

It's a non-lead, non-acid paint that reacts with existing rust, converting it
to Magnetite, and provides a base for most top-coat paints.  They give you a
five-year written guarantee that it won't crack or flake or allow new rust to
form.  Sounds good to me.

On top of that I've got three coats of Dulux "Weathershield" undercoat, and two
coats of gloss topcoat.  When the car's finished I'll underseal the whole thing
with Wax-Oyl, or that other paint containing Wax-Oyl whose name I've forgotten.

But at the end of the day nothing's perfect and some malicious stone is going
to chip its way through whatever finish you use.  Regular inspections and
touching-up of damaged areas are the only solution.

Opinions of Hammerite / Smoothrite vary.  Some people love it, some hate it,
depending on personal experiences.  I think its biggest downfall is it's not
flexible.  I wouldn't use it on a car, because however rigid your chassis is,
there's a lot of vibration and slight flexing which could stress it...

Scott

    What about stove enamelling? Particularly if you are going to coat
    the bits with a nice thick layer of underseal afterwards as that
    would absorb any impact damage from stones etc. 
    
    Cost obviously varies with area to be coated but I had half adozen
    small bits and pieces (probably about 1/2m2 surface area) stoved for
    less than �20 recently. That was two coats of primer and then enamel 
    to my choice of colour.  
    
    Person to contact is Richard Bloxsom in Newbury (0635 32697).
    
    He does all the stove enamelling for the chap at inkpen that is
    buiding replica Manx Nortons and Tridents from scratch ....... so
    he is good and knows all about wierd shaped bits and pieces.
    
    He did a set of wheels for me a while back for �18 each including
    shot blasting clean.

    re .288 .....
    
    I have had problems with Comma Stop Rust bleeding through cellulose
    primer and crazing top coat recently.
    
    Anybody else the same?

Re -1:  >> Anybody else the same?

I hope it doesn't!.


Quick question: having never picked up an engine block, I don't know how heavy
they really are.  Could two people carry one between them?

BTW, I mean a 1600 water-cooled Ford block, before some VW owner points out you
can carry a Bug block under each arm with ease!

   Two strong people should be able to manage it. The only problem
   usually is finding some way to get a good hold on it.

   Mind you, I wouldn't suggest you try to carry it by hand very far
   (10 yards max)...

    And dont try and lif it into the engine comaprtment :-)
    
    
    CRACK!
    
    Tony

Fitting it is no problem; the chassis is a few inches off the ground, and
there's no bodywork (yet) in the way to lift it over.

Still, might be worth hiring a crane though, just to keep things easy!

    Re: .287
    
    My newly acquired, but 2 year old, Westfield SE has an eepoxy coated
    chassis. The process is to shotblast the chassis and prime, then the
    two part expoxy treatment is sprayed on (I think). The result is a 1mm
    thick black shiny coating on the metal, which on mine seems extremely
    impervious to imapct damage, although eventually some malicious object
    will find a way through.
    
    The big advantage is that it bonds to the metal, yet remains flexible
    enough to absorb any flexing.
    
    OK - it costs �150, but the alternative is about 2 weeks worth of
    evenings, wire brushing, sanding, priming, and painting. Before I
    bought the Westfield, I was seriously considering building from a kit,
    and for my money the epoxy treatment was a good investment in time.
    
    Dick

If you're swinging engines about, hire a hoist.  I've met a couple of people 
at kit shows that have done it by hand (or rather back), they both spent
the next 3 months unable to lift anything.

Dave

Wot, another kit, a Westfield.  That makes, a 23, a Marlin, a Westfield, an NG
plus a few in the making.  Shouldn't we start a registry?

            <<< MARVIN::DISK$TOOLS:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CARS_UK.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -< CARS_UK conference >-
================================================================================
Note 1098.0                      Davrian Help!!                        4 replies
UBOHUB::TILLING_S                                    16 lines   7-JUN-1990 13:33
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Can anybody help me ?
    
    I have become the proud owner of a 1980 Davrian sports car.
    Once I get all the grass and birds nests out of it (it's been
    in someones garden for seven years !!) I intend to restore it
    to its original condition so I can get back out on the tracks
    again.
    
    What I need is any information or photos of Davrian T8s to help 
    me put this one back together.
    
    I'm also looking for a Hewland Mk9 gearbox and a crossfow Ford
    engine.
    
    Simon                                        
    

    
================================================================================
Note 1098.1                      Davrian Help!!                           1 of 4
VANTEN::MITCHELLD "23=>42|skate=>Answer"             18 lines   7-JUN-1990 13:46
                         -< But I know some who does >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Davrian is a kit car so this should be moved to the Kit Car note
(Mr MOD please)

Come to Mallory on July 8th and see Lots of Davrians racing
the guys there will be able to tell you everything!!

IF you are going to race it, Why not join the 750MC if you havent already

BTW  A crossflow and hewland I dont think will fit it

IT originally had an Imp engine and transaxle and was based on 
IMP bits.
With the right imp bits it does see off most x-flows

If you manage to fit a hewland you wont be able to race in the kit car
races.

I thought only the Darrian T9 could take  that Transaxle.

================================================================================
Note 1098.2                      Davrian Help!!                           2 of 4
SHAPES::STREATFIELDC "VW Beetle.. IOSG::AIR_COOLED"    1 line   7-JUN-1990 13:50
                                    -<  ? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What does it look like?

================================================================================
Note 1098.3                      Davrian Help!!                           3 of 4
UBOHUB::TILLING_S                                     7 lines   7-JUN-1990 14:30
                               -< SEE YOU THERE >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ta for the info, I'll see you at Mallory.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Simon.
    
    PS This car was modified to take a Hewland and a Crossflow.

================================================================================
Note 1098.4                      Davrian Help!!                           4 of 4
RUTILE::SMITH_A "No-one puts baby in the corner"     20 lines   7-JUN-1990 17:48
                         -< The original hot-hatches >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    IT originally had an Imp engine and transaxle and was based on 
> IMP bits.
> With the right imp bits it does see off most x-flows

    
    The man speaks true...
    
    When I had my Sunbeam Stilletto (production Imp variant, with 'hot'
    875 engine) I had loads of fun surprising X-flows away from the
    line, espicially 1600E's.
    
     It's all in the whizzy bits. The engine was really free-revving
    and pulled all the way through the range.  Past 60 mph the bigger
    engine would start to show but up to that the SS was brilliant.
    
    Davarian used to take those engines and 'boxes and then breath on
    them. Very successful racing cars.
    
    
    AMS

Any recommendations please for "type of", "price of" and "source for", bearing
in mind I want reasonably spirited performance without losing too many mpg.

- Exhaust manifold for Ford 1600 x-flow
- Inlet manifold for same
- Twin vent carburettor for same (any comments on Phegre in Hartley Wintney?)
- Distributor for same

Also, how much is a flywheel new (other than paying rip-off prices from a Ford
garage)?  Would Mr Scrappy be a better idea?

Scott

This is getting **very** complicated.

Does anyone know if the "XR2" 1600 engine will fit in the same space as a 1600
x-flow engine.

Note that "XR2" is just the engine designation, I don't think it implies a link
with the Fiesta XR2, although it may be the same engine.  Apparently the engine
links to the Sierra box.

Following the advice in -1, I've found a place that does a rather good deal on
these, and it seems like a good option if it will fit!

Scott

PS I tried asking Moss, but answerphone's don't give very good technical
support!

Apparently this engine is the one Westfield use; any Westfield owners who can
let me see one today?

I think the XR2 (the cars) engine is the 'CVH', westfields take these as well
as the Kent x-flo  so it probably will fit

(however the westfield will also take the ford 2.0 sohc whereas a caterham 
doesn't have the space)

methinks caterhams will take a cvh too

...art

    
    	Can anyone recomenyd a good garage in the Reading area who are
    willing to perform mobile crypton tuning on twin Weber 40 carbs?
    As the LVLO in Reading cannot get to inspect my kit until 29th June,
    I think I should get someone to have a look.
    
    	What the carbs are off, I don't know.. but when I put them on
    the kit with no air filters, the engine ran reasonably well. I was
    advised to put K&N air filters and ram pipes on the car by Formula
    One (Brighton). To do this I had to slide out things called 'aux
    vents' from each barrel of the carbs, enabling the ram pipes
    to be slid in..  since this was done.. the engine running really
    rough.. it will idle OK but when I press the loud pedal the engine
    splutters and coughs VERY badly. The aux vents I removed look like
    a toilet roll tube with a smaller one inside. The small tube has
    some sort of vent, fed via an outlet from each barrel. The new ram
    pipes have sealed this outlet (I think!). The carbs will probablyu
    need some re-jetting also.
    
    Thanks in advance..
    
    Guy 		[:-)
    
    

None of the mobiles that I've heard of specialize in anything in particular,
they're pretty good at standard cars.  Mind you, I got some good advice from
Hometune.  He was tuning a neighbours car and popped over to see mine... If
you can get it running at all well, get it to Phegre in Hartney Whitney.
The Webers that I've got needed re-barrelling and re-jetting before they ran
at all well.  Maybe Hometune would get you running well enough to get to
Phegre.  Maybe Phegre can be persueded to do house calls.

Dave

	You're pretty well certain to need the appropriate sized 
	chokes and jets for your engine. I would imagine that this
	would have to be done on a rolling road.

	-John

Thanks Derek.  Actually, when I recommend Phegre I usually mean the 
ministrations of Tony Saunders who sub-contracted himself to them (ie used
their rolling road and his expertise).  Anyhow, next time I feel the need for
a rolling road, I'll look elsewhere.  Shame, I used to enjoy looking at the
Lagondas...

Dave

    
>    	Can anyone recomenyd a good garage in the Reading area who are
>    willing to perform mobile crypton tuning on twin Weber 40 carbs?
>    As the LVLO in Reading cannot get to inspect my kit until 29th June,
>    I think I should get someone to have a look.
 

	I have just the bloke for you, Guy,

      Paul Lucas does Mobile Crypton Tuning, his company name is Engine Clinic.

	Reading (0734)  323007, or on the mobile, 0836 534020.
 
	He has tuned my NG TC wonderfully, and he has a kit car of his own, one
	of those cute Duttons - in red.


	Good luck, if you get really frustrated with those people in Reading,
	I'll help you strangle them......................

	Heather

	Hi,

	I see that some of you are suggesting a get-together/race/meet for
	people who have, are building, or are interested in kit cars.....

	What about a chat in the pub about what we may be able to set up?

	If enough people are interested we might be able to set up a sub-club
	with the sports and social club...................unless the red-tape
	is too long!

	We could at least get together and have a browse at the results of
	all that labour (in my case, someone else's labour!)

	..............................what does the panel think?

	Heather

The spirit is willing, but the flesh...

 Yes, I'm quite happy to sit in pubs and discuss kit cars, even to spend
time in the pub car park peering under mine or anyone elses bonnet(s).  
Trouble is the time.  Just not enough hours in the day, or night.


However, to be more positive.  I have been known to go to the pub on a Friday
lunchtime.  So why not just pick a pub for one Friday lunchtime and go there?


My usual pubs:

	The George and Dragon, Swallowfield
	The Old Bell, Grazely Green
	The New Inn (In the woods somewhere...)
	

Dave

PS I'll even give a lift to an enthusiast.  However, if it isn't raining, my
top isn't up.

    I'm game for a lunchtime pub meet, but in the interests of sump safety,
    and I know Derek will agree with me here, how about a pub with a
    decent, flat, and preferably tarmac'd car park.
    
    Dick_who'd_also_prefer_dry_day_'cos_the_hood's_a_p*g

	My car gets over the bumps in Deathpark, so I don't tend to notice
	these things.

	I'm game for Friday, anywhere................

	Does anyone know the state of the carparks in the previously mentioned
	pubs?   (and how crowded they get?)

	Heather

If you set off bang on noon, or even 10 minutes before, then you'll have no
problem.  The George and Dragen car park is quite small (12 cars?) but they're
friendly and serve a good pint.  The Old Bell has a large car park, but its
a large pub, so it's full by about the same time.  The New Inn (on the back
road to Hook) has a reasonable sized car park too.

Dave

As there's a fair dip between the road and the car park at the George and
Dragon, then Derek's car would be a disadvantage, so maybe he would prefer
the Old Bell?

The New Inn (I'm not keen on the Old Bell, myself, too many people), then?
Or some pub between here (Dec Park) and Newbury, on the A4?

Dave

>Or some pub between here (Dec Park) and Newbury, on the A4?


	The owner of the Red Lion in Theale has an NG TC V8 himself, though I
	would think he'd be too busy serving beer/food on a Friday lunchtime
	to participate much.

	I'm not too keen on the Old Bell on a Friday, it gets very crowded very
	quickly.

	New Inn looks a possibility.

	What of the 6 Bells.......left at that mini roundabout in 3 Mile Cross

	The Royal Oak (Shinfield) also does excellent food/beer

	Shall we start to take votes?

    Just to upset all the planning so far, how about the Fox and Hounds at
    Theale this Friday? It's got a large gravel carpark (flatter than the Old 
    Bell), the beer's not bad,  it's sort-of between Reading and Newbury, and 
    it's close to Derek's "racetrack" !
    
    How's about 12.30pm
    
    Dick

    
    STOP IT! STOP IT!
    
    STOP making arrangements for pub lunch meetings! I FEEL LEFT OUT!
    I won't be able to do anything until the start of July (at the
    earliest) due to the LVLO's inspection date (June 29th). The Striker
    is sitting in the garage polished just begging to be driven.
    
    Brings me to a question. As I've nothing else to do but polish,
    how can I clean the ally side-pannels and protect them from corrosion?
    I've used T-Cut which seems OK, but is there anything which will
    protect the ally after its polished?
    
    Heather, thanks for the tuning contact.. Paul is coming this Saturday
    to have a look at the motor. He has a 2 litre Fiat T/C in his Dutton,
    so he will be familiar with my 1438cc Fiat T/C. He can perform any
    re-jetting or adjustments necessary with his mobile equipment.
    
    Cheers..
    
    Guy 			[:-)

is the striker a 7 look-a-like?

...art

	Seen in autosport last week, for the ultimate kit car -

	A Cosworth DFZ 3.5 ex F1 engine. With 600hp it should see
	off the Gtis and it'll fit in a Lotus 7 type chassis.

	All you need is 40 grand to buy it.

	-John

	I'll give you a lift in my car if you'd like Guy,

	If the weather is like today the soft top will be on - getting in
	to it is VERY cosy if there's two of you!

	Votes please,

	my votes - if it's Theale, the Red Lion   (Only 'cause I know the owner
						    and he has an NG TC too!)
			   second      Fox and Hounds
			
	anywhere else is fine by me.

	Decision has to be made before we leave tomorrow lunchtime, unless we
	drive in convoy around Reading!     :-)

	Heather.		

	PS, I'm still open to offers for strangling the Reading Licencing place

	The story of how to (or how not to) register a car.

	
	1st May. Phone up the licencing place in Minster Street Reading.

	They tell us we need an MOT before anything can be done (this later was
	uncovered as a fib).

	Booked in MOT, the guy came to collect and deliver. have to stand 
	beside him and talk him through it 'cause he's not used to 
	non-standard cars.

	Filled in the forms and took them to Minster Street.
	Talked to the lady behind the counter - someone will come when they're 
	in your area. We can't get a date from them, or even a month. This 
	procedure confirmed by her manager.
	Oh, and by the way, why did we have a MOT - we didn't need one yet!

	Won't let us bring the car in on a trailer, they don't do this anymore. 

	Phone up five more times with same results.

	On the fith time, at 3.30 in the afternoon, the inspector happened 
	to be in the office.
	He said if we could get the car to him on a trailer before 4.30pm he'd
	inspect it. (Decided not to argue about "procedures" above).

	Hire a trailer, hitch it to the back of the Rover, and rush the car in. 
	He checks the chasis number and engine number, making copious complaints
	that they are not easily accessable takes 3 mins. - AND THAT'S THE
	INSPECTION GUYS!

	But now we have problems - we already have a chasis number - he dosen't
	like this 'cause he wants to issue us with one - half an hour to find 
	out he dosen't have to give us one, he can accept the number that's
	already on the chasis.

	Says we will get the registration number only when Swansea OKAY it.

	The clarks have to re-check the documentation, and send it to Swansea
	- no electronics, not even a fax, but ROYAL MAIL!

	Swansea do their bits, and mail it back. THEN we can then have a number.

	On the way home the oil pipe on the Rover breaks - black smoke and
	oil everywhere, trailer with kit car and Rover abandoned in road
	whilst get friends to rescue.

	Perform the rescue, and get the trailer back to the renters.
	Have to fix the Rover.

	A week later and more phone calls we are getting slightly annoyed.
	Eventually manage to get the inspector who still tells us to wait.

	Drive into Minster street with money in hand to pay tax, and start to
	kick up almighty hell. All of a sudden they don't need the paperwork 
	back from Swansea, they give us a number straight away (4.30 pm again).

	Manage to find a garage that will do us a numberplate that day, so we 
	can drive it over the bank holiday weekend.
	
	May 25th evening - on the road, and 3.5 weeks after our first contact.

	If you're not prepared to keep hastleing and pushing I'd think that
	it would be two months at least - halfway to building another!

	So Guy, if you're having problems with the officials in Minster Street,
	I am open to offers!

	Heather

    I've just caught up with this notes file for the first time in ages
    - I can't make the pub at lunchtime today,but I'll try to make a future
    meeting and bring my Caterham 7 along.I'm always happy to stand
    around in pubs discussing REAL cars!
    
    Cheers,John
    
    
    
    

Heather,
Thanks for the tips about Reading VRO; I think I'll go in there waving a large
axe, should help things along...  I agree they don't seem to know the
procedures very well; on my first visit they gave me the wrong forms!!

Everyone,
So is anything happening at lunchtime?  I don't mind where, most of the pubs
round here are new to me anyway...

Scott

Avoid the George and Dragon today... there's an IOSG "Business Lunch" there...

Scott

	Okay,

	Time someone made a decision:

	6 Bells,	12:10


	From Death park, over the M4 roundabout and go left.

	Left at the mini roundabout

	Its just round a bend, so don't go too quickly.

	If you reach the Shinfield road, you've gone too far.

	
	Any takers?			Heather

Yes, I'll be there.  I'll be bring Chris (and the Marlin)

Dave

	Well, there'll be a couple of us anyway.......anyone else?


	Heather..............PS, I'm the one bending double to get out of the
	NG , with the soft-top on!

As everyone knows, the Walklett brothers have sold Ginetta to Martin Phaff.
His official comments on the future of Ginetta:

"We want to get the image of the company really away from the kits"   ;-(
although they will "support" the owners club...

His emphasis seems to be to provide high-price specials for lucrative foreign
markets (particularly Japan, where a G12 is expected to sell for �35000).

This is a sad day for Ginetta kit owners; the "enthusiast" approach of the
original owners has been bought out by capitalism.  The current owner seems
interested only in making lots of money real quick.  Martin Phaff didn't buy
Ginetta because he loved the cars; he wanted a new "project", and after looking
at several companies thought Ginetta would be a nice little earner...

Let's hope he doesn't sell out to a PLC like he did his last "project", a
plastics firm.

Let's hope he doesn't turn his eyes on Morgan...!

Scott

	Well folkes,

	I've put in the form to take the NG around the race track at Castle 
	Coombe in September, both me and Dave will be driving it, 6 laps
	each......................

	..................that's if I've got the form in early enough!

	
	I'll let you know if we get acceptance/refusal!

	Heather      

	PS, Shan't be in here for a couple of weeks, off on hols.

    
    
    Just a quickie......anyone got any suggestions as to the best way
    to transport my kit from Bolton to Kent.
    
    I was going to hire a flatbed transit but thought I'd run it past
    some experts first...
    
    Or even better..is someone in the Bolton area prepared to hire me
    a suitable vehicle ???
    
    Any suggestions welcome
    
    Tom
    
    PS for sizing purposes the kit is a cobra..just chassis and bodywork.

    If you're buying from the kit supplier, then they're usually pretty
    helpful (Westfield recommend a Luton bodied Transit) regarding the
    transport of the bits. If the kit is part complete, say in a rolling 
    chassis stage, then a four wheel trailer might be the best bet. This 
    though would depend on you having a tow hitch on your car.
    
    Whichever way, go for something that's got a low platform height, to
    avoid lifting heavy objects large distances.
    
    Dick

When I fetched the Marlin, I hired a large flatbed trailer.  The trip down to
Plymouth was tedius, but nothing could dull the excitement of fetching my kit!
However, what with the hire of the trailer and the one-off one day insurance
of the trailer's contents (not covered by the car's insurance) and the petrol,
it cost me more than it would have done to have it sent.  At this end I 
organised some friends to pop round and lift it off the trailer and into the
garage.  All this cost me was some beer and pizzas.

Dave

    My name is Tom and i am at dec @SQF and i am thinking of building or
    buying a ready built kit car any good suggestions most welcome.
    
    
    
    
                                             thanks in advance
                                                                    TOM

    
    No contest!!!!! :^)
    
    Mark
    
    Seriously though, we'll need some more information about your
    requirements and personal circumstances (will it be a daily use car?
    Can you afford �1200 a year insurance?) before we can give any 
    sensible suggestions.
    
    

    Im looking for something that is upto two litre engine size and not too
    exotic more of a marlin style or a dutton melos something like that.
    As for cost im not too sure on that on that point.I can pick up a
    dutton melos for about 1500 POUNDS it a 2.0l supercharged.
    
    
                                                               tom
    

    sorry forgot to say it would be used under 3000 miles and i can go
    about 3500 puonds but the cheaper the better i think.
    
    
                                                      Tom.

Ah-ha!  Marlin, eh.  Given your budget you'll be a bit stretched.  The basic
Berlinetta kit is around 2.2K and the Roadster about 1.4K.  Although I do know
someone who put a Berlinetta on the road for around 3.5K, that is the low end
of the range, mine cost around 5.5-6k (I stopped counting!).  Roadsters do
seem to be cheaper to build.

However, how much depends on how much expertise you have.  If you're good with
engines then rebuilding one is better than buying a new one (mine cost around
700 pounds for engine , clutch and gearbox).  I tended to buy new rather than
spend too much time in scrappies - although 20 versus 110 for an inlet manifold
does rather make you more prepared to visit your friendly scrap dealer!

One way of getting off to a cheaper start is to find a semi-built kit or even
a fully built kit.  A second-hand Berlinetta tends to sell at between 4.5 and 7.5 
depending on the condition etc.  Roadsters are anywhere between 2.5 and 5K.
I've seen part builds offered for less than the kit price, including most of
the donar bits - the only problem would be if something has been botched, but
you could always replace that bit.  There are usually some roadsters for sale
in the kit mags, although never many Berlinettas.  If you're interested, I
can bring in my last owner's club mags and copy the for-sale ads.

Be warned!  It is the little bits that add up, some swiches here, some carpet,
some funny aluminium bits, etc.  Also, note that Marlins require painting, if
you're good you can do it yourself, if not it can cost an awful lot - it 
depends on who you know!

Dave

Tom,

I strongly advise reading some kit car mags and one of the kit car guides, to
give you a feel for what is involved in building a kit.

Then you must decide whether to build or buy ready-made, as you will follow a
totally different path in each case.

If you just want an "unusual" car, then buy ready made; don't undertake a build
unless building a car for its own sake is really what you want to do.  Also, on
a budget of �3500, you'll be hard pressed to build a decent quality kit.

But for that money you'll get a good ready-made one (assuming you aren't after
a V8 Cobra...), as there isn't much demand for them.

Alternatively, buy a part-built "abandoned project", often available cheaper
than the price of all the bits, and finish it off.  See the ads in the back
of the kit mags for a good selection.

Also, the car manufacturers and owners clubs will know of second hand cars for
sale, and may be able to advise on the quality of individual cars.

You say you want it for 3000 miles.  Do you mean you just wnat the car for a
single 3000 mile trip, then sell it again?  If so, the time involved in building
it isn't worthwhile: definitely buy a built one.

But perhaps one of the first things to decide is which kit!  There are, as I
said before, over 120 available, covering a wide variety of styles and an
even wider price range.  You should be able to cross off 100 of those in five
minutes, but ideally you want a short list of half a dozen.  Get the
manufacturers literature, which will give accurate price breakdowns for
different kit variants, options and extras, plus a list of exactly what comes
with the kit.

Don't forget that most kits are just body and chassis, with a few special parts
you can't get elsewhere.  Engine, gearbox, suspension, steering, seats, lights,
instruments, etc (the list is endless) you need to buy separately.  If you're
lucky, the kit is designed to take most of these from one car (the "donor"
vehicle); you buy an MOT failed cortina (say), strip, clean and service all the
parts, then reassemble them onto the kit chassis.  Other kits need parts from
a wide variety of cars, some of which may be hard to find...

If you do decide to build, have a long chat with the manufacturer and owners
club to assess just how much work is involved; you'll need to spend at least
250 hours to make a decent job of it.

Scott

    Scott
         Thanks for that advice i think i will buy a ready built car.
    if anyone knows any good, ones let me know .
    
    
    
    
                                                                cheers
    
    
                                                                      Tom
    

Had the first major breakdown of the 7SE yesterday, when the brake master 
cylinder seized (I don't count the silencer falling off as major). Had to go
and rescue the car after Shirley had dragged it unwillingly to the side of the 
road using brute bhp. 

Released the pressure by opening the bleed valve on one of the front calipers,
and drove it the 2 miles back home on the handbrake. A desperate call to 
Westfield just before 5.30 resulted in a replacement unit being despatched today
via Securicor. 

Looks like Monday night will be spent surrounded by plastic tubes, jam jars, and
tins of brake fluid. And this would be the first hot weather for months!

I should have known that booking an MOT on Friday the 13th was asking for 
trouble.

Dick

    
    
    Re .351
    
    Have you tried using one of those hydraulic brake bleeder
    
    I bought one a year or so ago when the Beast consumed its pipes leading
    to the servo.
    
    For the MOT this year I needed a new pipe across the back axle and I
    thought that two of us bleeding the brakes in the time honoured way
    would work better. After 4 abortive attempts to get the brakes right
    I resorted to the hydraulic thingy again and in 10 seconds (literally!)
    the brakes were fully bled.
    
    You might think that at 8 or 9 pounds there a lot of money, but I won't
    waste time trying to bleed brakes the old-fashioned way again!
    
    Mark (I hope the weather lasts till you're back on the road!)

When my wife got fed up of pumping the brake pedal as I lay under the car
opening the bleed nipple, I bought a set of nipples with a built in valve, 
straight replacements for the original set.  You just loosen them by half a 
turn and, hey presto!, fluid pumps out and air doesn't get sucked back in.

I tried one of the automatic brake fluid delivery kits, but nipples with 
valves are much easier.

Did it pass the MOT, though?  Mine just sneaked through its last one with
a warning about the rear lower bushs, so I spend 3 hours last night 
dissembling the rear suspension and replacing all four bushes with solid ones.
The rear end doesn't waggle around as much as it did.  However, I may still
fit a rear anti-roll bar.

Dave

That's a good idea. I'll see if the local goodies shop has one when I pop in 
tomorrow for the quarts of brake fluid. It's such a long time since I bled any
brakes (the idle rich with their company cars!), that I havn't even got any
plastic tubing. I don't think Shirley would take too kindly to my stealing the
tubing that she uses for wine making.

Ain't life fun

Dick

Dave 

I though it better to hold fire on the MOT until I got the brakes working again.

Asking the tester to leap out of the car with a spanner and let out the pressure 
every time he presses the brake pedal, is perhaps pushing your luck a little too
far.

I'll keep you posted

Dick

Got home last night, open large parcel containing shiny new master cylinder -
great. Also contained strange piece of metal made from three pieces of one inch
strip welded together flat in a U shape, with holes drilled at the top of the 
arms - Hmm, not sure about this.

Out into garage where Westfield has been awaiting transplant, pump brake fluid
out of lines, and remove old cylinder - 10 mins. Now we're moving.

Hang on - this new cylinder is not the same as the old one!!!!!!!

For a start the mounting flange is vertical (old one is horizontal), the holes
in the flange have a different spacing, the push rod is different, and the 
tapped female union for the rear brake line is smaller. Start thinking
unspeakable thoughts about Westfield's part dept whilst stomping round garage.
I think I know where to put that funney shaped piece of metal!!!!!!

Calm down, go indoors, make coffee, and go through Yellow Pages for Motor
Factors to call tomorrow. Make note of part and assembly numbers from old
cylinder. 

Go back out to garage to tidy things up a bit - there's that funny piece of 
metal again. What is it for? Now that's strange, the holes in the two arms have
the same spacing as the mounting flange holes on the old cylinder - and the 
holes are the same diameter. That means that it can fit over the mouting studs
on the front face of the pedal box. Hey - look at that, it effectively extends
the front face of the pedal box downwards so that there is now something to bolt
the vertical flange on the new cylinder to.

It's an undocumented FCO!!!!

So now we have a way to mount the new cylinder, but I've got one brake union the 
size. Two phone calls later, have tracked down pipe flaring tool and what sounds
like the right size union (thanks Brian).

Back to the garage, drilling holes (rear carb's a bit in the way), sawing bolts
to the right length. Have to modify new push rod and yoke - old one won't fit 
new cylinder, couple front brake union, reset brake switch, and fit new 
connectors on fluid level wiring. 

There - all we have to do now is change the rear union, flare the pipe and 
connect, and bleed and test. But that's tomorrow night's job.

Dick

Collected brake pipe flaring tool from work, then home in the evening to finish
the job. Removed old flare from master cyl union on rear brake circuit, fitted 
new union of correct size, re-flared pipe, and conected up to master cylinder.

Then it was bleeding time, and a right b$%^^&*g time it was too! Connected the
Eeze-Bleed bits together, pressurised everything from the spare wheel, 20 psi,
no leaks, fill with fluid, open the bleed valves, and away we went. Worked 
round the car, starting from the wheel cylinder with the longest pipe run,
blasting out the air, until clean fluid emerged with no bubbles. Made a second 
circuit of the cylinders just to make sure - no bubbles. Try brakes. Pedal went
down to the floor!!!!!

More bleeding - pedal getting harder, try pumping pedal as well while the system
is being bled. Hmmm, a bit better. Open bleed valves on front and rear circuits 
simultaneously, no improvement.

It's now 11.15pm, I'm running out of brake fluid, and the system still doesn't
feel right, but it's getting a bit late for a road test (I live in a cul-de-sac).
Pack it in, try it tomorrow morning. Maybe I'm relating it too much to the 
brakes on the Citroen, where the pedal hardly moves at all.

Time to clean up, and watch the new video of the 1987 F1 season. Magic stuff, go
to bed at 1.45am.

This morning, get Westfield out for test drive. Roar down road, declutch at 45, 
and hit the brakes.!!!!! Well it certainly stopped OK. Try a couple more times,
increasing the pedal pressure, until I locked the fronts with plenty of pedal
in reserve. Perhaps I was getting paranoid, but I'll give a another bleed 
tomorrow night just to make sure.

Next job is steering. Noticed that the rack was slightly off centre, so one lock
is smaller than the other. This would explain slight front end twitch on fast 
bumpy corners, but it's going to have to wait until after the hols.

Dick

When I first did my brakes, I couldn't believe how soft they felt, compared to
an XR2i.  Only when I sat in another Marlin did I realize that they were normal.
In my case, the Marlin brake pedal has a longer travel than the 'tina, this
contributes to most of the soft feel.   Also, I left the servo in, so the
brakes really require almost no effort.  What improved mine was the addition
of Goodridge pipes, but I expect that you've got those already.  

Dave

     Please excuse my ignorance, but what are Goodridge pipes?
    Yours in confusion, and regards, Ray.

Goodridge are a company who specialise in high-pressure pipes and hoses.  In
car terms, this generally means brake and clutch pipes.  Goodridge hoses are
braided steel over rubber, and they are a lot better than "standard"
hoses (both in performance and longevity).  I shall be putting them on the Moss,
as they only cost the same as ordinary hoses.

Re: Marlin.
Dave, don't you use the standard cortina pedals?  Any particular reason why not?

Scott

	Goodridge pipes (or should I say hoses?) are flexible brake pipes
	that are metal bound, rather than rubber bound.  The rubber bound
	ones are the default Ford bit and they tend to expand slightly 
	when you press your foot on the brake, thus loosing some brake 
	pressure.

	The metal braided ones don't bulge and, so, transmit more of the
	pressure to the brakes, thus improving the feel.

	As a side issue, RAC regulations say that all flexible pipes must
	be metal braided and run inside (not underneath) the car.

	Dave

	Scott, Marlin include their own pedal box and two pedals (clutch and
	brake), the 'tina accelerator pedal is used, though.  The spindle
	that all of the pedals swivel (hinge?) on is taken from the 'tina.

	The standard pedals won't fit.

>                   -< Yes - all flexible pipes are Goodrich >-


	Aeroquip, are, or used to be the top quality braided metal over 
	whatever, the most commonly used type in Sports cars, F3000 anf F3
	to my knowledge.

	Gordon 

What I meant to say was all the flexible pipes on my Westfield are Goodrich.

Dick

Isn't English a rich language for misunderstanding.

    
    
    Although much of this topic is concerned with finished
    cars..meets..problems etc., I still have some questions for those
    of you who have/are working down there at component level..
    
    I am still awaiting delivery of my chassis, to kill some time I
    have been preparing in detail all components from my donor vehicle,
    I have been advised to use a metal primer with 'zinc phosphate'
    or some such in it after the sand blasting and before the hammerite
    or whatever I choose as a final coat..
    
    Does anyone have any knowledge of this type of primer..will it work
    with hammerite etc ???
                 
    Just in case some of you are wondering why this project is still
    at this stage..I know I am !!!!..it's mainly because I have been
    let down with delivery times for my chassis/body. I'm going to pick
    it up from Sandown during the show, the manufacturer has promised
    me a pass for my flat-bed transit so I can use his parking area.
    
    For those of you interested I will be there on sunday afternoon/evening
    and will be collecting the kit at 5pm from Mark Phillips Auto Services,
    maybe I'll meet a few of you there ??
    
    I have the engine/gearbox and running gear all ready and waiting,
    and hope to have a rollinig chassis for a trial MOT by Christmas.
    All the expensive bits will be added over the spring/summer and
    I hope to be using the car regularly during Autumn next year.
    
    Any help on the zinc phosphate most welcome...
    
    Tom
    
    PS I've got loads of Waxoyl aswell (a present would you believe)
    which layer should this stuff be...last ???
    
    Thanks
    

	I've no experience of zinc phosphate, I've led a sheltered life.
	Put the waxoyle on last, it is what it sounds like.  A mixture of
	wax and oil - paint doesn't stick to it.

	As for Sandown, I'm still undecided on the day, but I favour 
	Sunday.  

	Dave

Why not go for an epoxy powder coating. There were discussions about this in 
.280-300. It won't be cheap, but it has good abrasion resistance, and will 
flex with the chassis. Try Yellow Pages under Powder Coatings.

Dick

when's the show at sandown?
how far away is sandown?

ta...


...art

	
	Sandown is about 70 miles from Reading, it's the racecourse.  The
	show is in August, 11th and 12th.  It has a fair sized manufacturers
	area, but a very large clubs area.  It is usually well attended and
	on a sunny day I can think of no finer place to go...

	Dave

    
>>	Sandown is about 70 miles from Reading, it's the racecourse.  The
>>	show is in August, 11th and 12th.  It has a fair sized manufacturers
    
    Sandown is 37 miles from Reading (I live just down the road) -
    M4  -> Bracknell -> M3, turn off at junction 1, take the A308 to 
    Hampton Court, turn left at roundabout and follow signposts.
    
    

    
>>    Hampton Court, turn left at roundabout and follow signposts.
                          ^^^^
    
    Sorry, turn RIGHT

	37! I wonder what route I take!  Quite right, Stoneleigh is the
	further away.  I normally troll off across country, which lengthens
	the journey, mind you, it cannot double it.

	Dave (my lack of sense of direction is a legend amongst my friends)

"Sandown" kit car show is at Sandown Park Race Course, Esher, Surrey.
"Sandown" is on the Isle of Wight...
Be careful you don't follow the wrong signs!

Scott

    .. DEC Park car park
    
    .. SYLVA STRIKER
    
    .. BRG and silver
    
    .. Q 922 YRX
    
    
    
    
    ... zippedy doo daa,
    ... zippedy day,
    ... my oh my what a wonderful day....
    
    Guy_Cheshire_Cat_Malcolm		[:-)
    

Guy,
	well done, now can we organize a kits only parking area?

Dave

>	well done, now can we organize a kits only parking area?


	The bike shed?????????





	No, I didn't mean it, honest arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    
    Whats the best place for new ford spares ?
    
    Ford tend to be expensive..and have to order everyhting I've asked
    for so far..
    
    any suggestions ?
    
    Tom

If you want genuine Ford parts, then you're stuck with Ford dealers.  But for
"critical" parts (eg rubber bushes) it's worth getting the genuine part as
they're (supposed to be) higher quality.  Unfortunately higher price too.

For other bits, motor factors will be cheaper.  As an example, a bolt which
cost �2 from Ford was 30p in a hardware shop...

As long as you get "brand name" parts (eg Moprod) you should be ok.

Also, for miscellaneous non-wearing parts, try a scrapyard.

Scott

	I usually try somewhere like the parts shop opposite B&Qs on the
Basingstoke road first (sorry, I forget the name, something catchy with
"part" in it).  Failing that, some of the mail order places are quite good.
For example, the Piper Distributor for the Ford OHC is a Ford part, but costs
54.45 as against 90.odd for the Ford label.  Once I've fitted it, I'll let you
know if it improves performance.  Obviously, be beware of cheap imitations.
You could try asking for a discount at Ford, don't laugh, I got 15% off when
I bought my engine, clutch and gearbox...

Dave

    
    
    Scott..you mention motor factors..do you have any names/numbers..or
    know where I can get these...
    
    Thanks..Tom

In Reading, there's a couple on the Basingstoke Road between DECPark and the
town centre, Les Smith in the town and at Cemetery Junction, and Halfords.

Try yellow pages under "Car Accessory Dealers", etc

Scott

    Thanks..its nice to get such prompt replies
    
    By the way...
    
    
    
    A Few notes ago I raised the subject of tools..which were best etc..
    
    I have now started to buy ELORA (West Germany) sockets..mostly 3/4
    inch drive...I find these very durable, they have a lifetime
    guarantee..and they don't cost the earth (4.50 for a 19mm 3/4 inch,
    16.00 for a T-bar)..I would reccomend these tools to anyone..
    
    Does anyones else have experience of ELORA ???
                                 
    
    Tom

I thought sockets came in 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 inch drive...

Sockets come in 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4 and 1 inch drives.  Probably even bigger 
for trucks and commerical applications.

Dave

       re 366.383
       
       I just worked out that I've had my Elora Socket Set for 18 years! 
       It's served me well all that time. The ratchet handle et al still 
       function well. 18 years is a long time in the history of the 
       British car industry... Subsequently I've had to extend the 
       Whitworth and A/F capacity of my trusty socket set with metric 
       sockets brought from Halfords about 10 years ago.
       
       BTW, they get used "frequently" too.
       
       IMHO, ELORA (if the quality is still there) are a good buy.
    

	Well, I fitted the Piper distributor (well, to be more honest, Heather's
tuning chappie did) and it does make a difference.  Not that radical, but 
before I fitted it, when I pressed the accellerator smartly to the floor in
relatively low revs, there would be a small moment whilst the engine gathered
itself together before setting off into the sunset.  That has now gone, 
the response is immediate at any revs.  Also, there is more response in the
middle and higher rev ranges.

	It might have made more difference if I didn't already have electronic
ignition fitted.

Dave

    
    Re several back.......
    
    "Socket" tools can be had in 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 11/4, 1 1/2,
    and 2" inch drive if you know where to look. You got to be ***REALLY***
    serious about the larger sizes as a 2" drive socket for a 5" nut
    will set you back the best part of �400.........
    
    Ex WD tools are usually a good buy as they are always made toa quality
    and not a price. If you want good hoists, wrenches, stands and other
    tools try Hurst's scrap yard at St Mary Bourne......
    
    Elora has a good name and the quality to back it up as does Kamasa.
    
    Draper are OK as are Stanley.
    
    You'll know when you've got a poor quality socket when it splays
    open as you try to undo a nut...... unless of course it was a nut
    on a left hand threaded bolt that you were trying to undo the wrong
    way........ 8^(

    Hi,
    
    Does anybody drive or have any information on the GTM rossa soft top...
    
    I saw one advertised the other day looks really smart....Based around
    the Mini/Metro chassis I think !
    
    Has anybody ever built one of these, cos I would like to build one but
    my knowledge with cars is fairly limited..  I wouldn't like to purchase
    something that I have no hope of putting together.
    
    Thanks
    
    Jon 

1) Read reply .349 to this topic - written by a very nice chap ;-)
2) Go to Sandown kit car show and have a good look round
3) Talk to owners clubs to find out all the sordid details
4) Buy kit car mags and kit car guides to get a feel for the whole subject

Scott

    Note for the guy building the Cobra replica...
    
    A friend of mine in Leigh-on-sea, Essex, makes up looms for Dax Cobras,
    so could be a useful contact when you come to that part. Havn't
    got his number unfortunately, but his name is Tim Lane and his company
    is called Tri-line.
    
    He's very enthusiastic about cars and in the past built a chopped,
    lowered, supercharged, Morris 1000 from the ground up. He has loads
    of contacts and will tackle any electrical probs.
    
    Hope he's of some use.
    
    AMS

    
    
    Harping back to paints/undercoats etc......
    
    I recently spent the best part of an afternoon discussing my
    requirements with an 'expert ' from my local hardware shop....to
    be fair he has got himself a reputation as someone who 'knows his
    paints'...!!!
    
    Anyway he recommended using zinc chromate or zinc anything primer..this
    stuff forms a really tough undercoat, and bonds itself to the metal
    (I have already used this stuff after sand blasting and rust converting
    some hardware). 
    
    As a top coat he recommended Signpost Plant,Machinery and Maintenance
    paint (sprayed if possible) This stuff goes on JCBs etc. and has
    an extremly durable water resistenet enamel finish. I have bought
    some of this paint and an electric sprayer so I will post the results
    here when I have finished the job. 
    
    I will top coat the whole thing with wome waxoyl..also
    sprayed..hopefully this will keep out the damp till I can afford
    to build a GT40. (about 10 years at my present level  :-[ )
               
    Anyone have any previous experience with this paint ???
    
    Tom
    
    
    PS Where is that scrap yard mentioned a few notes earlier for tools
    etc...i.e. where is it in the country.
    
    	

    
    he probably is the type to object to being overtaken by women drivers
    as well...

	I had something similar happen to me, mind you, only once in 3 years
	and that incident has been outweighed by all of the (usually) nice
	responses that I get from people.

	Still, sounds like you did the right thing...

	Dave

I'd have taken his number and reported him for "obstruction" and anything else
I could think of...

    Contgratualtions on not losing your temper. 
    
    These kind of idiots infuriate me, and i would have driven behind him 
    with hand on the horn. Then he would have felt a real jerk.
    
    It's nice to know that kit car drivers are not the lunatics they
    are made out to be.
    
    Lewis. Yet_to_meet_a_kit_car_driver_who_takes_it_slowly!

.397�                      Then he would have felt a real jerk.

    But would he? He'd probably revel in the fact that his actions were
    having the desired effect.

    Martin.

    I know if i do something silly (which is not often ;-)),and someone
    drives for miles and miles behind me i soon get fed up with the
    noise, and when i do it to other people, they soon get fed up too.
    
    Lewis.

    Re .401
    
    Yes, Lewis, but _you_ have a brain. The kind of folk that veer across
    the road and back just to block somebody they have never seen before
    but whom they decide they don't like can only have vacuum between the
    ears.
    
    Do not tap them on the head; they might implode.
    
    Steve
    

	Since driving the kit car, I have noticed that there are MANY more 
	cars that try to race with you, block you, or are very discourteuos.

	Getting around the roundabout at the end of worton grange takes
	nerves of steel, with knowledge that the guy who built it can also
	repair it!.

	I go around, and have right-of-way, I usually let a car in, on a
	1-1 basis. This causes no problems when I'm in the Montego, or the
	land rover, but in the kit-car, they cut me up, try to force me around
	again, and anything else to get in front of me.

	I guy opened his window and gave me a V sign last week, I shouted
	back that if he left them there I'd break them off and stuff them up 
	his nose.....he forgot he was trying to carve me up, and stalled.
	
	And another point is that it's always men that do this.    

	Heather
	

           <<< Note 366.403 by BIGHUN::THOMAS "The Devon Dumpling" >>>

>	I guy opened his window and gave me a V sign last week, I shouted
>	back that if he left them there I'd break them off and stuff them up 
>	his nose.....he forgot he was trying to carve me up, and stalled.
	
I like it! I like it!!

	Now Heather, threatening discourteous drivers with removing parts of 
	their anatomy and then inserting them into certain bodily orifaces is
	no way for a young lady to act. Shame on you. 

	Shocked of Delft

    Returning to the Mitchell experience. No one seems to have considered
    the possibility that the other driver had in fact 'met' the 23 on
    some previous occasion, and remembered it well.
    
    -John

	Ah, is this implying that a certain "23" is driven in such a manner
	that certain road users met out revenge on their next meeting ?

	Gordon 

	What you must remember about the Worton Grange roundabout at home
	time (5-6.30 say), is that most of the people (men) in their cars
	are half crazy by the time they reach it.  They've just queued all
	the way down the Basingstoke road, or just struggled off Junction 11.
	You can see it in their faces (poor things).  Luckily I turn up the
	Basingstoke road and then right again opposite the playing fields.
	I never have trouble turning right there, someone always (cheerfully)
	waves me across.

	Anyhow, back to the point, what I do if someone is attempting to
	annoy me is to wave cheerily whilst grinning.  Annoys the hell out
	of them.  If they're behind me I drive more slowly, if they're ahead
	of me, I wait until I can either box them in and leave them (watch
	the traffic lines...), or pick any exit at the last minute.

	Dave

Anyone with a kit car that has a Escort Mk2 steering rack may be interested to
know that were are 2 types of rack fitted to this car, they changed design in 
'78. I found this out yesterday when I went to get a new pair of rack gaiters
for the Westfield, and guess what...they changed the gaiter design as well, and
they're not interchangeable. So it's down to Gowrings with the Westfield this
lunchtime to make sure that I get the right ones.

Knowing my luck, neither of them will fit!!

Dick

RE: .357

Had a few more goes at bleeding, subsequent to the replacement of the m/cylinder
but no real improvement. Pedal still felt squidgey, but further investigations
halted by need to go on holiday. So last Sunday, suitably refreshed, it was back
under the bonnet again.

Removed m/cylinder and dismantled to check for defects etc. Nothing noticeable,
no machining burrs, assembly errors, or damaged seals, so back everything went
and we tried again with another litre of brake fluid. First, used the EeziBleed
to get most of the air out, and then got Shirley on the old foot pumping. Lots
more air bubbles popped out, and the pedal feels much better now. Still has 
slightly more travel than the old one, and braking is more "progressive" than
before, probably due to the fact that this cylinder isn't seizing up!

Now for the steering rack (see .411)

Dick

   re. .410 
    
    as a non-kit-car owner, i'd miss the kit-car-owners contributions.
    Stay in the fold.
    
    AMS

    
    I vote Stay.
    
    Mark (Whose Marcos hasn't seen the light of day for over 2 weeks!)

I think a kit-car conference would be too specialised, and have too limited an
appeal.  Most of the notes pertaining to kit cars are of interest to general
car-noters.

Maybe having more than one topic in this conference would be better; eg a topic
for model info, one for donor info/queries, one for recounting interesting kit
experiences, and so on.

If MGBs can have n different topics here (a separate one for every MGB related
note almost ;-), I don't see why kits should be any different.

Or as a substantial number of carsuk noters are kit owners / enthusiasts, why
not rename this conference kitcarsuk, and make the 205 XR GTT BX GTi owners
start their own conference, and leave this one for *real* cars...

Scott ;-)

    Re: Seperate Conference for Kit-cars
    
    Why don't you guys join up with another existing car-based conference?
    I moderate the air_cooled conference, if someone puts a note asking the
    views of the contributers of that conference, if they would mind, then
    you may well find yourself a home!.
    Seems a fairly good idea, as the birth of Kit-cars took place with 90%
    of them using VW Beetle parts anyway!
    
    Carl - (who would not mind, but doesn't know about the other noters
    views)

  re:  Why don't you guys join up with another existing car-based conference?
    
	They already have:  CARS_UK
    
    Chris

	Stay in the fold.  Mind you if you leave; make Marlin a seperate
	topic!

	Staying on the subject of Marlin (and why not?).  I got the owner's
	club magazine last night, it mentioned some poor unfortunate who
	had rolled his Berlinetta.  It didn't mention how, but I would imagine
	that it took some provoking, they have a wheel at every corner, a
	low center of gravity and a 50/50 weight distribution.  However,
	he was unhurt and the car is being rebuilt.  The roll impact was
	taken by the windscreen surround come roll-bar; apparently, the
	windscreen didn't even smash.  Oh, and he had the soft top fitted,
	so he didn't even get any help from the GRP hard top.  So, the
	roll bar does help!

	Dave

I am impressed by the usefulness of the roll bar / windscreen.
I am amazingly impressed that he managed to roll it.  From my experience the
only way to roll a car like the Marlin would be with a chassis tilter ;-)

Scott

>    I moderate the air_cooled conference, if someone puts a note asking the
 
	My car's air cooled, it has no roof or doors, so I 'spose I
	qualify anyway!

>    Seems a fairly good idea, as the birth of Kit-cars took place with 90%
>    of them using VW Beetle parts anyway!
 
	'scuse me,          PAH!
   
      As mine's based on an MG chasis, I could always infiltrate those notes.

      Why is it, that when I join a conference, people want to get rid of me?

      Aren't you afraid of loosing your fingers?

      Heather

    
    Anyone else off to Sandown Park NEXT weekend?
    
    I'll be there again (on the Sunday) with the trusty Beast (yes T-RUSTY
    not just RUSTY!), probably with the Club Marcos International (if
    they're going - I must find out), but certainly somewhere amongst the 
    Marcos fraternity.
    
    Mark
    

    
>    Anyone else off to Sandown Park NEXT weekend?
 

	It's a 50/50 decision at the moment, go and watch the sprints in
	Southampton on Sunday, or go to Esher the weekend after?   

	Southampton was winning hands down, until the weather forcast
	predicted 99F for Sunday, all that traffic to get there-and-back, and
	standing in 99F heat is not that appealing.

	Looks like Sandown will win.    

	On a separate topic,

	Hats: I have long hair, and even when I tie it back, the top gets
	so tangled I can't get a comb through it, if I'm not careful I'll
	be bald soon!

	Baseball caps, even when worn back-to-front, just don't stay on, 
	neither do woolly hats.
	Even square scarfs become detached!

	The brown leather flying helmet does the job vey well, however it's not
 	quite the colour or materiel to wear this weather, has anyone seen 
	either light coloured leather/cotton flying helmets, or anything else 
	I can use?
	
	Heather

>>    As mine's based on an MG chasis, I could always infiltrate those notes.

by this you mean you've a kit car built upon a genuine MG chassis?
what a waste...


...art

    re: .425

    There is a shop in Cannes which sells white silk flying helmets.
    I'm there next week and could check out the price if you are
    interested...

 Mark

I'm off tomorrow for 3 wks canal cruising on my narrowboat. The steering rack,
and all those other little(?) jobs on the Westfield plus house, garden, work, 
etc, will have to wait until September.

Dick

	Art, Heather's car is based on MG running gear, MGs (not the latest
	model, anyhow) don't have chassis.  Before MGs moved into cherished
	car territory, they were thought good donar cars.  Beetles have gone
	the same way.  Looking at Heather's car, it is not a waste...

	Heather, I've seen the cotton flying helmets at the kit shows, I'm
	definitely going to Sandown, probably Sunday (12th August), if you're
	not going, let me know your head size.  My wife generally puts her
	hair into a french plait and adds a scarf for good measure; me, I 
	just keep my hair short, but my clip on sunglasses do flap at speed...
	
	Sandown, I will be there, on Sunday 12th, in the Marlin Owners Club
	area.  All are welcome, I'll have my picnic hamper and a few beers...

	Dave

>    There is a shop in Cannes which sells white silk flying helmets.
>    I'm there next week and could check out the price if you are
>    interested...

	Ohhh yes, now couldn't I pose in that!

	If you could find out the name /address of the shop too, then
	I'll write and see if they'll do mail-order or something.

	Thanks

>	Art, Heather's car is based on MG running gear, MGs (not the latest
>	model, anyhow) don't have chassis.  

	Opps, one day I'll understand................

> 	Looking at Heather's car, it is not a waste...

	Thanks, I will now purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr with pleasure

>	Heather, I've seen the cotton flying helmets at the kit shows, I'm
>	definitely going to Sandown, probably Sunday (12th August), if you're
>	not going, let me know your head size.  

	This looks like another good reason to go to Sandown....I could get
	a collection.

	I'll take you up on this if we don't go, and if we do, then I'll
	swap sandwiches and beer/cider.............and anyone else who
	comes along.

	I'll be the dumb blonde next to the NG TC, who thinks MG's have
	chassis!      :-)

	Heather	

The low down on chassis:

The MGA has a chassis.  The MGB doesn't.  It was one of the first monocoque
production cars.  Instead of a chassis providing the strength, with the body
being largely cosmetic, a monocoque has a strong body shell which provides
the strength and mounting points for engine, suspension etc.

Now a fibreglass body, although strong, isn't suitable for fixing engines to,
so most kit cars use a custom-made chassis to which fits the running gear from
the donor, in Heather's case an MGB.

Clear as mud...

Scott

	Great dumb sayings heard when folks are confronted with a Marlin:

	Is it a Morgan/Riley?

	I had one of those in the 30s.

	Has it got a Cortina chassis?

	Is it based on a beetle?

	My friend's got a Dutton...	

	All this, plus advice on all topics relating to cars from people
	who can't put shelves up and don't know which end of a spanner to
	hold.  

	Dave

    
    Re Chassis
    
    Pah! Many kitcars have a fibreglass monocoque which is as strong or
    stronger than a steel one. Examples of this are the GTMs which
    are true monocoque cars and the Mini Marcos/Midas which mount
    the mechanicals on subframes but rely on a fibreglass 'chassis'
    for their strength.
    
    Mark

Re -1.  OK, I knew someone would point out the exceptions.  I was just trying
to give the general picture.

The GTM monocoque is of "composite" construction", so has more than just GRP
holding it together.

My point was that if you take a piece of GRP, drill some holes in it and bolt
your engine to it expecting the GRP to take all the weight, your GRP will snap
and the bolts will be pulled through the now-much-larger holes.  You need at
least a large steel (or other material) backing plate.

Cars that use mini subframes have all the weight and stress taken by these
metal subframes.  The GRP body just keeps the two subframes the right distance
apart, and provides a floor to keep the driver off the ground.

I'm not trying to knock GRP; I love it and am looking forward to still having
a nice shiny car while my neighbours' rust away!  But I also like strong steel
chassis (covered in lots of rust-proofing paint, of course) to hold it all
together.  That way I get the best of both worlds...

Scott

PS Who's going to throw another spanner in and bring up Morgan wooden chassis?

>> which end of a spanner to hold

What's a spanner?

Scott ;-)

    a sort of bent bit of metal that's handy for knocking in nails..
    :-)

    Sorry but GRP is quite strong enouh to be a chassis in it's own
    right if needs be.
    
    The original Lotus Elite had no metal chassis, or subframes. Subsequent
    Lotus cars ie. Elans etc. do have chassis however. The reason being
    that whilst GRP was strong enough there were advantages to having
    a separate chassis ie.
    
    1. Less noise. The vibrations travelled through the GRP rather too
    easily.
    
    2. Equivalent cost. Accurately bonding mounting points to GRP was 
    expensive.
    
    3. Easier to assemble.
    
    4. Easier to maintain.
    
    -John

> PS Who's going to throw another spanner in and bring up Morgan wooden chassis?
    
  Not me
    
    
    But what about the Marcos plywood chassis? :^)
    
    Mark

    I seem to recall that the Chapparal racer of about 20ish years ago had
    a GRP monocoque; seemed to stick together alright.
    
    It also had a two speed automatic gearbox. How many kit cars have
    autos? How many can?
    
    Steve

Auto transmission should be easy on most kits, as the gearboxes are roughly the
same size and designed to fit in the same space.  I've got manual because I
prefer it, but auto would have been just as easy.  Would have cost a bit more
though...

Scott

 

	Well, now I've read all about running gear, chassis, and the
	monocoque"s, I was wondering,

	1) are we allowed to say monocoque

	2) what is it?


	Heather Who_knows_she_will_regret_asking

    All I can say is that in the case of a small commercial vehicle
    you can say Monocoque au Van if you like.
    
    -John

		:-)

"Monocoque" refers to the method of construction.  Instead of having a separate
body and chassis, monocoque cars have a single structure which provides the
strength, mounting points for runing gear et al, and body shape.  The body shell
of (most) modern production cars is an example of monocoque construction.

It first appeared in early 60s racing cars, as a way to reduce the car's weight,
hence increase its acceleration.

The advantages are lightness, cheapness, ease of assembly.  The problems are
that each and every part is crucial to the rigidity of the structure.  Being
made of thin (aka cheap) metal, they tend to rust through sooner than we would
like, and one hole in one piece can mean an MOT fail and expensive repair bill.

Scott

    Before racing cars, it was seen in WWII military aircraft.
    
    Who knows where it was before that?
    
    Steve

 re: .431

 I'll check the prices and let you know ...

Mark

    re .448
    
    Insects use Monocoque Chassis!
    
                    Chris

	Thanks for checking the prices Mark,

	and thanks for the mono-coque instruction.


	Heather

    Looking for a respray?
    
    Just had the Grannie (Ford variety) resprayed by Newbury Autobody shop
    (Call 0635 47045 and ask for Brian Buckle) in this new two part
    non-isocyanate catalysed paint.
    
    ***** Wonderful *****
    
    Cheap, too!

    re: .452

    Report back in six months time. They ALWAYS start off looking
    good, shame thay don't always stay that way !!!

  Mark

    
    Re .455
    
    Getting the bodies to stay together.
    
    Ever looked at a non-restored Elite? The whole body is likely to be
    crazed and cracked as the stress resistance of fibreglass wasn't really
    understood enough at that time to make a true monocoque car out of the
    stuff.
    
    Still a lovely looking car though. :^)
    
    Mark

	It was also noisy, the windows and doors leaked, the engine 
	overheated and the body and chassis had some difficulty remaining
	together.  Quality wise, it was a nightmare.  Chapman had to sell
	it as a kit (not his original intention) in order to break even.
	As for body shape, it was awful.  Now the Elan, that's another
	story...

	Dave

    
    I'd rather have an Elite rather than an Elan myself, talking purely
    about the shape. The Elite was MUCH sleeker.
    
    Mark 

I always thought the Elite a bit ugly.  Agree original Elans are very nice.

Getting back to the topic (sorry to be a spoil-sport) are the suggestions of
getting together for "Sunday afternoon tea" at Sandown serious?  If so, where
and what time?

Scott

    
    Could somebody post directions to Sandown, or are they already here
    somewhere?
    
    Bill.

	I'm afraid Sunday is off for me, I'm going on Saturday.  That's
	when all my kit making/owning friends are going.  As for the route,
	I usually go across country (far prettier than the motorway), but
	I haven't looked at the map yet to draw up a list of towns and
	roads (to stick on my dash, so I know where to go).

	Dave

This is from memory, so no guarantees:

By motorway:

M4 (East) -> M25 (South).  Leave M25 at junction 11 and head for Weybridge.
Get on the A317 and you should find the racecourse on your left as you enter
Esher.

There are loads of cross-country routes.  I'll be starting from Ascot, then
Sunningdale -> Chobham Common -> Addlestone -> Weybridge -> A317

Unfortunately there isn't a cross-country route from Reading to Ascot...

Dave: re: meeting Saturday:

See you at the Marlin Owners Club stand sometime on Saturday then!

Scott

    
    I presume .462 missed a smiley on th bit about no cross-country route
    from Reading to Ascot? If not, you can go down through Wokingham and 
    Bracknell.
    
    We'll be there on Sunday. Come along and say hello to the Marcos
    people. Mine will probably be the oldest car and definitely the
    tattiest!
    
    Mark

	We'll be there Sunday, ours will be the best two NG's 
	(well, that's what I think!)

	I'll be the tall blonde, with the "prompt" cards for any questions
	you may have!


	Heather

	How do you get the two old (+60) pistons into the new block?

	Easier to say a new engine really.

	-John (being pedantic)

    
    
    First off...anyone who wants to see my Cobra (well the kit anyway) have
    a look on the Mark Phillips Auto Services stand. He is using my kit as
    his 'demonstrator' on Saturday and Sunday. It should have been primer
    grey but he has offered me a deep blue badyshell NO EXTRA CHARGHE instead..
    actually I think I might have made one of my rare good decisions in
    deciding to pick the kit up at the show because the manufacturer has to
    show his best work..so I should get a perfect body and probably a very
    neatly welded chassis !
    
    On the down side some berk will probably sit on the shell and distort the
    whole thing !!!!
    
    Anyway, if you see two people struggling with a Cobra Kit and a trailer
    hooked to a Range Rover late on sunday..the one with black curly hair
    is me.
    
    Secondly...is there any point bringing my wife and daughter to the
    show..my wife is NOT a kit car fan though she does enjoy a stroll on a
    sunday afternoon...what else will be at Sandown with the Kits ?..Fun
    Fair etc.
    
    Any answers before 3:30 MOST welcome..
    
    Maybe see some of you there..
    
    Tom

I don't think there's a fun fair at this one.  There is the racecourse, though,
which she might like a stroll round.

She also may like to see kits in various stages of build to realise what she's
going to have to put up with for the next few months: or maybe you'd prefer
her not to know?

The current "Which Kit?" comes with a free Show Guide, so you can see in advance
exactly what's going to be there...

An extra pair of hands would also be useful for lifting your kit around!

Scott

    If that's Sandon IOW ... I'll give you a flypast! but you can
    keep the wife in the boot!
    
    *8^)

I read a lengthy article on kit cars, replicas and copyright recently.
Basically the law is as follows:

If fewer than 50 cars of a particular design were made, the manufacturers can
claim "artistic" copyright, which lasts for 50 years after the designer's death.

It is this law which Ferrari used to get GTO replicas stopped (only 34 GTOs
were made).

If more than 50 cars were made, then "industrial" copyright applies, which only
lasts 15 years from the date the design was originally registered.  After that
time anyone is free to copy the design.

A Japanese company used this law to flood the market with cheap "Lego" bricks
three or four years ago, when Lego's copyright on the brick design expired.

Now I suppose if a car varies slightly in design throughout its production run,
the manufacturer's can re-register the design, thus pushing the date of
copyright expiry forward to 15 years after the end of production.

So when were the last P4s and Lotus 23s made?

It is interesting to note that Ford have officially announced they do not claim
any copyright on the Cobra body shape, so Cobra replicas are safe.  But the
name "Cobra" is copyright, which is why the cars are called all manner of odd
names...

Scott

	Unless you like cars, Sandown is not much fun, no funfare etc.
	However, any wife who's got a kit builder for a husband must show
	bags of patience, support etc.  (Goes for the husband of a kit
	builder too).  Questions to a kit builder on any subject usually
	get the response "if I remove the bracket and file it, then maybe
	it'll clear the...".  You get the picture.

	However, I'm taking my wife plus daughter (2) plus son (6 weeks).
	We're all having a picnic and meeting friends.  I gives me a chance
	to pose, meet other Marlin owners, see other kits, see the manufacturers
	and to buy obscure bits of car.  All in all, a good day out.

	Dave

    I was married, and then built a Kit airplane (2 actually). I now have
    two beautiful airplanes, and no wife.
    
    Moral .... sometimes you have to chose!
    
    Paul

;-)

    Maybe they would be if there were such a thing as a 'kit baby'
    around!  It's the female build, I guess. Enough of this rathole.
    
    Paul

>             -< Why aren't women more understanding and tolerant? >-


	I'm very understanding and tolerant.


	Heather

    Darling Devon Dumpling .....
    
    
    	With the greatest of respect (you know when someone opens like
    	they are going to say *something* obnoxious), NO woman can ever
    	be underastanding and tolerant about something that they have
    	no interest in. Kit cars/planes is just one example.
    
    	Why should they? I have no understanding or tolerance for female
    	things.
    
    	3 major means of communication:
    
    		Telephone
    		Telegram
    		Tellawoman
    
    	Paul

    
    I don't really want to go off down a rathole, _but_ a serious reply to
    your comments, people (men and women) can only take a real interest in
    something they understand, and become involved in. If you take the
    trouble to explain something to someone on an equal basis rather than a
    patronising "you won't really understand this anyway" attitude, I think
    you'll find quite a lot of women far more interested than you seem to
    be giving credit to. There have been times at race meetings when I've
    felt like just packing up and going home because people (men) heve just
    excluded me from the converstions about the car. They've asked a
    qustion about some technical detail of the car, I've answered, and then
    they've asked Derek exactly the same thing! That is hardly the way to
    encourage anyone to take an active interest in what is going on. More
    examples of such behaviour on request! 

    
    Re .479
    
    Quite right Elaine. To say that women (or men) can't understand
    something which isn't in their normal sphere of interest (as perceived
    by bigots) is ridiculous (a bit like saying white people can't like
    reggae music! :^)).
    
    My wife pushed me into buying the Marcos (I'll never forgive her for
    that) and is quite happy to help out on the car whenever it needs
    mechanical repair.
    
    Certainly not all women are interested in cars, but then neither are
    all men, and I know some men who think babies are wonderful (Now is
    that sick or what!!! :^)).
    
    Changing the subject what did you lot think of Sandown?
    
    To my eyes there seemed to be a lot more people on the Sunday than
    there were last year and there seemed to be more cars to me as well.
    
    My favourite car was the RAM XKSS replica on the RAM stand, but at 
    �28,000 for the one on the stand or �19,000 approx to build one from
    a kit it will have to remain a dream.
    
    Other than that the Cobras were disappointing (nothing really exciting
    on display) and there were a lot of boring 7s (sorry guys, but once
    you've SEEN one you've seen 'em all!IMHO).
    
    In my totally biased opinion the MOC club stand was a roaring success
    with 7 or 8 cars on Sunday (one left, one arrived). Unlike last year
    most of the cars were the old ones with 2 3 litre Volvo cars, 3 3 litre
    Fords. In addition there was a Mantula Spyder (my favourite car on
    display this year) and a Mantula Coupe. If anyone saw them mine was the
    metallic red one and it was the oldest (but not quite the tattiest!).
    
    I enjoyed Sandown more this year than last, but still think it's a
    racket to ask the passengers in kit cars to pay (after all without the
    cars there wouldn't be much of a show!). Maybe they'll review that for 
    next year, but I doubt it.
    
    Mark
    
    PS I did buy some nice black carpet for the Marcos for �6 for two large
    sheets, which Mandy is now going to cut to shape and fit. Who said
    women can't have an interest in cars?

Went to Sandown... spent a month's wages... went home again.

This car's getting expensive!

...and I still haven't got a set of ******** Smith's instruments!

Tom: was that really your "deep blue" Cobra on the Mark Phillips stand?

Scott

	Elaine, I know what you mean, one of the funniest examples of 
	surprised macho male was when I visited the Marlin factory.  Paul
	Moorhouse (designer) wasn't there, but his wife (Su) was.  Several males
	run about looking interested and desperate to ask questions, but no
	man to ask.  In desperation they approach Su, who, apart from a 
	degree in engineering knows all about Marlins, and are utterly 
	surprised when she can help them.

	Actually, it works the other way too.  I've been told that I cannot
	possibly know things about my children (one of each) because "only
	a mother...".  I grit my teeth; however this sort of insult is very
	rare for a man, women get to put up with it all the time.

	Climbing down off the soap box;  I went to Sandown on Saturday and
	had a loverly day out picnicing and chatting and buying.  I did see
	Scott (just before he went and spent his life savings), and my wife
	fell in love with the Pilgrim Family Tourer, so maybe I'd better clean
	up my spanners...

	Dave

    
    
    Scott..you noticed that the car was bright orange (yuc !)....actually
    my kit was on a trailer a small distance form Sandown...
    
    After a lot (I won't go into them) of hassles..not from Mark Phillips
    but from my transport..I finally got the kit home at 9ish Sunday
    night..shoved it all in the garage for playtime tonight..all the bits
    are there..the body has no ripples..though it does have some scratches.
    small chips etc which will need filling..the chassis looks correct and
    I'll check it for alignment tonight.
    
    All in all not too bad, I didn't manage to get to the show until
    5ish..I wanted to but some parts but had no time..when is the next show
    south of Manchester ?
    
    Tomf

No, the body I saw on the Mark Phillips stand was definitely blue, but it was in
a pretty grotty state.  Didn't think much of all the filler around the joins.
This was on Saturday, so might it be yours?

Scott

    
    
    Scott..it might have been mine, but by the time i saw it on Sunday all
    the filler was removed..though the body was still very dirty...but that
    doesn't matter too much to me, as long as the surface is smooth and the
    fibre glass thick, the rest is pretty irrelevant as I have to fill and 
    prime the body regardless, so any small cracks/scratches don't bother
    me at this stage of the build.
    
    I think that overall the quality is good though the presentation did
    lack that final touch. If I wasn't going to spray the car (and some
    people don't !!!) I would not have taken the body when I saw it.
    
    Tom

Someone's loaned me a very interesting book, the "Ford Special Builders Manual",
published c.1960 by Haynes (no, I didn't know Haynes had been going that long
either).  It's essentially a manual for stripping a donor Ford and building a
kit on it, such as a Rochdale, Speedex, Falcon Caribbean or Concord.

It has some great bits, such as "if the hinges show any sign of being difficult
to remove, break them with a sledge hammer"...

It recommends using any post-1938 Ford 8 or 10 as a donor (these were apparently
still in production in 1959?).  My question is: what is a Ford 8 or 10?  I think
they were precursors to the Popular / Prefect, but I'm not sure.  If anyone has
any pictures, I'd be interested to see them...

Scott

    I believe the shape of these cars is known as Sit-Up and Beg.
    But don't quote me on that.
    
    I used to own a 1960 Ford Pop with a side valve engine, If it has the
    same suspension, brakes etc. it would make a very sturdy kit.
    
    Jason.

Pictures of the rolling chassis in the book reveal a transverse leaf spring
front and rear, with a live rear axle and beam front axle.  Looks quite a solid
arrangement...

Scott

    
    
    Who can help with this...when I was dissembling (?) the Granada rear
    suspension arms I managed to confuse the two hubs (left and right). 
    
    One of the hubs is threaded the normal way, the other is
    counter-threaded (left handed?). I presume this is to stop the nut
    coming undone during use .if this is the case should the
    counter-threaded hub be on the left or right..I think it's the left but
    would appreciate a second opinion. (Whish the haynes had mentioned this
    when I was wrecking sockets trying to undo it!)....
    
    Tom

    thats what I thought ...so I 'll put it on the left rear.
    
    Thanks

	What a note to come back to from hols..........just make my day!


>    	With the greatest of respect (you know when someone opens like
>    	they are going to say *something* obnoxious), NO woman can ever
>    	be underastanding and tolerant about something that they have
>    	no interest in. Kit cars/planes is just one example.
 
	In fact, I'm so disinterested, I go and buy myself one!

	I'd put some mittens on if I were you, they protect the fingers!
   

>    	Why should they? I have no understanding or tolerance for female
>    	things.
 
	That, is obvious.
   
>    	3 major means of communication:
 
	........... 	Telegram
    
	Ah yes, I should think your means of communications should be updated
	to todays world.

	Heather

	And on to kit cars and Sandown:

	It was hot on Sunday.


	I bought a white leather helmet, but still in the market for cotton 
	ones.

	The guy on the stand said that, as it took the same amount of time to 
	make a leather helmet, or cotton, they'd be the same price,  and he 
	couldn't understand why anyone would then want cotton.
	- so they didn't make cotton ones.

	I asked him if he could make one out of gold threaded silk for the 
	same price - he face went blank!

	An NG won the best of show.................it did look wonderful.

	I discovered that Alans car isn't a 3.5 V8 like ours, but a 3.9 V8.

	I also discovered that the hose on the water pump was perished, just
	as well we went with Alan, I do believe I could replace it again
	myself if it goes in future (with a few body-building classes).

	We bought claxons for the landrover - and then fitted them to the
	NG - in addition to the sqeezy horn we have.

	We have brouchures for new leather seats, brasscraft screens, and
	for harnesses (for the passenger seat).

	AND, a little metal circle for the tax disc, much better than sticking 
	it on the windscreen.

	A great day out, I never knew there were so many kit cars around, I
	sometimes wonder how many of them are hidden in garages for most of 
	their life!

	Heather	

    
    
    
    I have been using an electric airless paint sprayer for the past couple
    of months with no problems (apart from my lack of skill!!!) I am
    thinking of using it to spray the chassis of the cobra with WAXOYL. In
    the instructions for the spray gun it advises not using any materials
    with a FLASH POINT above ?? degrees C.
    
    Does anybody know what the FLASH POINT is ?
    
    Will WAXOYL work in this gun  ?
    
    Thanks 
    
    
    Tom

    
    
    Second question of the day......
    
    
    A friend of mine helped me re-assemble the rover V8 for the cobra, he's
    a qualified mechanic..but has not had much experience of these types of
    engine. At present the unit is nearly full assembled, all that remains
    is to fit the inlet manifold gasket, manifold and carbs..the bottom end
    is finished..or so I thought !!
    
    I have been having second thoughts aboput starting the engine without
    re-assembling the bottom end, the reason is that my assistant insisted
    that there was no need to use plastiguage on the crank/main bearings,
    his reasoning was that the crank had been reground to a known tolerance
    and the bearings were of a known tolerance so it should all work first
    time.
    
    When I think back I recall that the crank was very stiff to turn (with
    pistons connected) and the end float on the crank was also the bear
    minimum !!!
    
    Should I re-assemble the bottom end, mating each shell to each journal
    as the manual recommends, or was the mechanis right and it will "be
    alright on the night".
    
    I want to have the engine for more than a week, but I don't want to
    re-do all this work if it is not justified...
    
    
    Many thanks in advance  
    
    
    Tom

The flash point is the temperature at which the substance may spontaneously 
ignite, I think.  I can't imagine why a high flash point should be a problem 
as you can spray water quite safely!  It's more likely to have a minimum flash
point as the airless gun might just cause a spark which could cause an
explosion.  I admit this seems a little implausible.  I would have thought that
you would be OK with good ventilation.

Specifically, Waxoyl will be OK to spray but you might need to thin it, either
by heating it (not too much!) or with white spirit.  The flash point of Waxoyl
must be quite high.

Mike.

ps, on your second question, I would not risk starting the engine if it was
stiff to turn when only moving the crankshaft and pistons.  It is natural
for it to be fairly stiff once the camshaft etc is connected.

    Re .497
    
    There's a Kit Car Show at the East of England SHowground, Peterborough
    on 15/16 Sept. 
    
    AB

Apparently it's THE place to get ye-olde-style car accessories...

Scott

    >  Anyone going to Beaulieu on Sept 8/9?
    
    I'll be there on Saturday. My original plans to camp overnight, and do
    Sunday as well, have been scuppered by my wife who insists we celebrate
    our first wedding anniversary somewhere else!
    
    I've been every year, except last year (work out why!), virtually since
    it started. If you can't find the part you want at Europe's largest
    autojumble, you won't get it anywhere!
    
    Ian.

    where is THE autojumble ??
    
    Peterborough or Buleau (sp) ?
    
    

Reputedly the largest autojumble you'll ever see.  Apparently it takes two
days just to walk round every stall...

I assume it's at / adjacent to the museum; anyone know the location more
specifically?

Scott

    That's the catch. It's *IN* the museum grounds (in the fields behind
    the abbey). You have to pay the standard entrance fee.
    
    If you're going on both days this year *and* next, it works out cheaper
    ti become a member - a year's membership bought on the day will still
    be valid next year.
    
    Ian. 

So what is the entrance fee?  How much is membership?  What does membership give
you (other than entry to the museum)?

Is the place well sign-posted?

I think we should be told...

Scott

       At a rough guess, I'd say the entrance fee would be at least �5 by
       now, but then it's been a long time since I paid it. I'm afraid I
       don't know the current membership prices, you'll have to do some
       sums on the day. There's normally a discount for a two day ticket.
       My 3 year membership has now lapsed, so I'll be queuing up with
       the rest this year.

       Membership gives you unlimited free access to the museum for the
       member, plus any number of guest at a slightly reduced cost (about
       �1 off). You also get a regular newsletter.

       Beulieu is well signposted. Follow the brown National Motor Museum
       signs, or the yellow AA autojumble ones. Access is easy from the M27.

       Ian.

>       Beulieu is well signposted. Follow the brown National Motor Museum
>       signs, or the yellow AA autojumble ones. Access is easy from the M27.

 

	So, is this the museum, and autojumble?


	Is there anything else, is their a kit-car/vintage car....etc.
	display too.


	Heather - considering going on Saturday - Sunday we're  going to Alton 
	for the sprints (just watching folkes)


	Heather

    
    Heather,
    
    Are you going to the HILLCLIMB at Rotherfield Park, Nr Alton?
    
    If you are you'll realise it's quite a bit different to sprints
    (usually held on nice wide race circuits or airfields!), as the
    track is VERY narrow and twisty. I went to the last climb there
    and it was quite enjoyable for a sunny Sunday afternoon, there were
    also quite a number of kit/classic cars there so it's interesting
    just to look around the car park.
    
    The barbequed food is good too and reasonably priced.
    
    Can you post the dates of next years event (assuming I've got this
    right and am not talking complete rubbish :^)) as I thought I
    might even have a go sometime.
    
    Mark 
    

	Well, It could be a hillclimb, I'm going to see Alan, who has a place
	as 1st reserve - so he's hoping one person won't turn up.

	Yup, it is Rotherfield, and it's on Sunday.

	I'll see if I can get the dates for next year - I don't know if they're
	settled yet.

	Alan's not too happy, two weeks ago someone (yes, I admit it was a 
	woman) reversed 16 YARDS into the front of his car.

	He's lucky the radiator isn't 3" behind the grill in his car, like
	it is in ours.

	He's fixed it enough to drive, but it still needs bodywork and extras
	done to it.(Pastiche have been on hols for the last two weeks too).

	AND, although the woman admits its her fault, because his insurance 
	premium is due in 2 weeeks, he has to forgo his no-claims, and pay
	the higher amount.
	If, subsequently, her insurance pays up, then he'll get a refund.

	But still, you must really want to "get" a car, to reverse for 16 yards
	in a straight line, just to  hit it!

	Amaized of reading.


	PS, any more info on Bealieu (sp?)

Beaulieu Motor Museum is apparently worth seeing if you're into that sort of
thing.  As far as I know the only "extra" this weekend is the autojumble,
although I think there will be loads of "classic cars" there as a consequence.

Highlight of the weekend will be a frantic kit car builder rushing around
trying to get a matching set of genuine Smiths instruments...

(No prizes for guessing who ;-)

Scott

My starter motor mounting has three holes, at roughly 1, 4, 7 o'clock
positions.  Would just bolting through the holes at 1 & 7 be strong enough
to hold the starter?  (The mounting at 4 conflicts in space and time with the
chassis, so will be relocated with a hacksaw... ;-)

Scott

   You can get starter motors held on with two bolts, but usually they
   are at 12 and 6 o'clock.

   I agree with -.1. Don't try cutting off one of the three...

  Mark

	For what it's worth, never miss out a bolt on a major component.
	Especially the starter motor, those things have terrific torque.
	How does bolt at 4 O'Clock conflict with the chassis?  Is it a)
	just won't fit, b) will fit but only if fitted to the engine before
	the engine is fitted?  

	Dave

    
    On the subject of Autojumbles, there is one at Kempton Park race course
    on (I think) the 30th of September. Apparently it is being run in
    conjunction with a classic car show.
    
    Beaulieu is the biggest, but if all you need is instruments it's a 
    mighty busy place (I'm told, not been there) to try and get what you
    want.
    
    Beaulieu Motor Museum is pretty interesting, although I find cars
    more interesting when they're moving, and it makes a good day out
    (The Mitchell's and Mandy and I went at Christmas and I think we
    all enjoyed the day), but with all the EXTRA people there for the
    autojumble it might just be a pain!
    
    Mark

Why the starter motor won't fit:

There are two main chassis rails running front to back.  The gearbox sits
between them and slightly above centre; in plan view:

1: Gearbox              ||     |  1  |      ||
2: Bellhousing          ||     |     |      ||
3: Clutch lever         ||    /       \     ||
4: Bulge in bellhousing || 3 /    2    \    ||
   for starter          || =/           \ _ ||
5: Lug on bulge for     ||  |             4|||
   starter fixing bolt  ||                 =||   <***** 5
                        ||                  ||

I can't move the gearbox to the right 'cos then the clutch lever won't fit (also
the carburettor woudn't fit inside the engine bay).  I can't move the engine up
'cos then the air cleaner won't fit under the bonnet.  Can't move down 'cos then
the "pre-engaged" actuator on the starter would hit the chassis...

I'm the first person to fit this engine/gearbox, so there's no previous builder
to ask for a specific solution in this case.  I know one person who cut a
section out of the main chassis rail (and welded a tube on the outside instead)
to get his cortina starter to fit, but that seems a bit drastic.

The lug is hard up against the chassis (ie I can just fit the gearbox) so if
three bolts are essential I can try filing � inch off the lug to give a bit of
clearance.  I'm not sure how much movement there would be though, so how much
clearance is needed?

Never a dull moment with a kit car...

Scott

If the mechanical bits that you are trying to shoe horn into your chassis are 
Ford, of the 1.6 - 2.0 litre variety, bellhousings/starters can come in 2 or 3
hole styles. As they are interchangeable, you could try getting hold of the 2
hole style.

However, if the bits aren't Ford, ignore this useless info.

Dick_who_got_this_info_from_the_Westfield_build_manual

    
    
    Hi Mark,
    
           With reference to reply .515 in this note, is this autojumble at 
    "Kempton Park" a definite event on the 30th of Sept.
    
    
           If it is could you please let me know where it is and if its
    worth the trip south to attend it.
    
                               Alan.
    

    
    Hello Alan,
    
    I'll check the date tonight (assuming my sieve-like brain allows me to
    remember! :^)), but I can't take any responsibility for the value of 
    a long trip to it as I've not been before. I hope to go myself (as it's
    just down the M3 from my home) so I'll be able to recommend it (or not)
    for next time, but if you've got to go a long way to get there perhaps
    it would be worth perusing a few magazines in Smiths to determine
    whether there will be enough there to make a journey worthwhile.
    
    Mark

    
    Re .519 & .520
    
    Isn't that an AYR node? I can't imagine ANY autojumble/car show would be 
    worth a journey that long! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    My brother is looking at the possibility of building a Lancia Stratos
    Transformer kit. He intends to use the Lancia beta 2000 engine with a
    few modifications. He has got in touch with the company Transformer and 
    he's got a test drive this weekend. 
    
    Firstly, has anyone had any first hand experiance with this particular 
    kit or anything similar, who would kindly give any advice or things to 
    look out for? And secondly, where would be the best place to pursue 
    Lancia Beta 2000 engine parts, second hand interior items and 
    particularly X19 headlight motors. He lives in Reading but doesn't mind
    traveling.
    
    Any ideas would be much appreciated.
    
    
    

     Try looking in fast car about june/july issue, they had an article
in there about someone who had done this.


	 Alan
	~~~~~~

    
    A friend of mine is organising an evening at Strand glassfibre to grasp
    the basics. We need a total of 12 people to make it worthwhile. I don't
    have a date yet. Anyone want to make up the numbers ? It doesn't cost
    anything but you may be asked to cough up the price of a pint or
    contribute to a bottle of something .... Mail to Chris Gale @RDL if
    interested. First come first served.

    
    Yes, very interested. Where would it be?
    
    (Count me in if it's in the Reading/Basingstoke/Fareham areas, Ayr
     might be a bit too far! :^))
    
    Mark

    Another call for help/comments. I'm thinking of building a Merlin -
    anyone built, owned or passed one in the street? I was considering JBA
    or Marlin as alternatives but my wife liked the look of the Merlin
    so....    Anyway before I commit my life savings are there any horror
    stories that I should know - any help would be appreciated.
              
    Bill Ashby

    Hi Mark,
    
            Well its like this Mk1 Mini spares are a bit thin on the
    ground up in this area. Even seem to be a bit hard to get at the places
    that actually advertise these parts. An autojumble seems to be the
    perfect place to find the off side rear light cluster for the car. 
    
            Autojumbles seem to be "as rare as hobby horse S**t!!" up here 
    in the Scotland.
    
            There might be a couple of us making the trip. What the hell
    it's only petrol! ;^) Might be the last chance I get to make such a 
    frivolous(sp) journey!!!
    
            On another subject is anyone who reads or takes part in is conf
    going or thinking about going to the Mini Owners Club gathering at 
    Lutterworth on the 16th of Sept, I intend to be there everything
    permitting.
    
              Cheers.
    
                             Alan.
           
    
    

    
    Right Alan,
    
    The event is 'The Grand London Autojumble Incorporating The London
    Classic Car Show' on the 30th September and there is a contact phone 
    number for more information, which is 09274 29547.
    
    Best to give them a ring before deciding to come ALL that way.
    
    Mark

    Hi Mark,
    
            Thanks for the info, I will give them a ring and find out a 
    bit more. As you say it is a bit far if its not going to be that good.
    
    
            Thanks.
                     Alan.
     

	Bill,
	
		my original list was Marlin, Merlin and JBA.  Merlin were
	going through financial difficulties at the time (4 years ago) and
	so were dropped.  The Marlin had the edge over the JBA in a number of
	ways, apart from being prettier.

	However, back to Merlins.  I've seen a lot at the Kit shows and they
	all looked very nice and built to a similar standard, which was very
	high.  I did chat to owners about how easy they were to build and
	none commented that they were hard, but maybe I just met the optomistic
	ones, maybe the others were too depressed to go to the show.  Only
	kidding.  As far as I remember, they have a simple ladder chassis with
	a bolt on fibre glass body tub and wings, bonnet etc.  I cannot 
	remember if they're self coloured or not.

		They have a choice of two rear axle arrangements one for the
	2 seater and one for the 2+2.  The 2+2 version offers better location
	of the Cortina axle; certainly a good thing.

	That's all I know.  I suggest that you contact the owner's club and
	find a local owner to talk to.  Of course, you should visit the 
	factory and drive their car(s).

	Dave

Have you tired Austin-Rover ?
Or what about one of the mini owners clubs?

I'm sure you can get these lights (or look-alikes) from at least one of:
    Speedex, Merlin Motorsport, Europa, Part X Discount.

Seems a long way to travel just for one light.
Check if T&J Enterprises are going to be at the autojumble; they specialise in
obsolete Lucas lighting, so may have what you want.

Scott

    Dave,
    
    	Thanks for the info,  sounds like Merlin weathered the storm if
    they are still around now - from what I gathered after I visited them
    it sounds very much like a sub-contract operation now. I'll be talking
    to the owners club, if there is one, but from what I know and looking
    at the operation I think I'll probably take the plunge and order the
    beast. Now all I need is a nearly dead 2 litre cortina and some
    time.....
    	
    	Cheers, Bill

    Greetings
    	I am about to part with some of my ill gotten pennies on a deposit
    for a Westfield Seven kit. This is my first foray into the world of
    building kits, so I am obviously a little aprehensive. Before I sign my
    name on the dotted line has anyone out there owned, or built this
    particular kit? I am planning on the live axle version and fitting a
    two litre pinto engine. Any words of wisdom, or things I should watch out
    for? What about Westfield themselves? From my visit to their site they
    seemed to have a profesional attitude and to be planning to be around
    for the long haul. How is their after sales service for spares, advice
    and so on?
    
    	All thoughts gratefully received,
    
    		Jeremy

    
    Most of the specialist kit car press (and some of the mainstream
    motoring press) see Westfield as leaders of the new wave of kit
    manufacturers. The quality of their kits is very good (frankly it's
    beyond me why anyone would pay twice as much for a Caterham, but what
    do I know!?!) and they have sold enough now for you not to worry even
    if they did go bust, such is the support available.
    
    Buy it and enjoy it, I doubt you'll regret buying a Westfield, and
    remember Lotus started off building kit cars!
    
    Mark
    
    PS Marcos are about to unveil their 2 litre DOHC (Ford) powered
    Mantula. For sale at around �17,000 it's cheaper than a Calibra,
    Celica or 200SX, faster than any of them (less than 7 seconds 0-60)
    and infinitely more interesting. Now if I can only persuade the wife 
    that two Marcii in the family is a good idea! :^)
    

Westfields are now made to take the 1600 XR2 engine, with a Sierra 5-sp box.
If I was buying one that's the engine I'd use.  More up-to-date than a pinto,
and more HP in its standard configuration (110 v. 70-something for a 1600 pinto
and 90-something for a 2000).

Apart from that, it's the second best Seven kit around.  As his already been
mentioned, the best isn't really worth paying twice as much for (sorry Art...)

Go for it!  I'm having great fun building mine (well, some of the time), and
the satisfaction when you've finished makes all the niggles and curses
worthwhile (well, I hope so...)

Scott

    
    Why do people pay more for a Caterham? Because its the original,
    and the best!
    
    (Compare a Rolex and a Rolex imitation, they both tell the time
    but only one is the real thing!)
    
    Bill.

	I'd go for the more modern engine too, however, both the 2l and 1.6l
	pintos are highly tuneable (the 1.6 more than the 2l).  At the last
	rolling road session I had, after fitting a racing distributer from
	Midac, measured peak horses at 97/8.  That's from a 1.6 GT Pinto.
	Note that the engine is unmodified (standard cam); but it has a decent
	exhaust, carb and electronic ignition.  
	
	In a car that weighs around 800Kg, that gives respectable performance.
	The Westfield weighs less, so even better performance can be expected.

	Westfield have, deservedly, got a very good reputation in the Kit 
	world.  They offer a very good package at a very good price.  If I
	were building one, I'd be tempted to fit the independent rear 
	suspension package.
	
	I don't want to get into a Rolex versus Timex debate, but you pays
	your money and takes your choice.  Both the Westfield and the 
	Caterham are worth building.

	Dave

    
    
�    Why do people pay more for a Caterham? Because its the original,
�    and the best!
    
    If you're going to get purist about 7's then really the Caterham is 
    a non-starter. They basically are updated copies of REAL 7's, which
    of course varied wildly in their motive power and design.
    
    There's only one reason to buy a Rolex at 200 times the copy's price
    and only 2 to buy a Caterham at twice the price of a Westfield (the
    second being that other people are daft enough to pay for a replica
    from one company rather than from another!). If you really think the
    Caterham is worth twice the price in it's ability on the road then it
    may be worth buying, but buying it for it's originality is a waste of
    time, as, unlike a LOTUS 7 it will not appreciate.
    
    Mark

	The Caterham 7 will, and does, appreciate in value.  It is also 
	welcomed by the Lotus Owner's Club and regarded as a real Lotus, 
	although not as valuable as an original Lotus 7.

	Dave

  I am considering building myself a kit car, but cant seem to find anything 
that fits what I want.
  I am looking for somthing that has a reasonable amount of space (as I will 
need to transport all of my stuff up to Poly and back in it), but dont want
on of these Geep kits that seem to be getting popular.
   I will be using RWD escort bits, initially a 1300, but upgrading eventually.

   Does anyone have any suggestions ???

	 Alan
	~~~~~~

    
    The Caterham is a development of the Lotus 7 (S3), not really a copy
    (which the Westfield, et al, obviously are). That said, I've nothing
    against the Westfield, it is accessible to a lot of enthusiasts that
    can't afford 'the real thing'.
    
    Bill.
                                                                

    Ok, well I obviously upset the 7 lovers here, but in reality in what
    ways (and to what degree) is the Caterham better than the Westfield?
    
    I don't mean "it's original and best", because that's debatable, but
    is the Caterham that much (any?) better a car on the road than a
    Westfield? Would Mr Average 7 driver (note not Mr Average :^)) really
    be able to appreciate/achieve/notice the differences?
    
    Mark 

    
    Bear in mind that the Seven was a car you could drive to a race, race,
    and drive home; so road comparisons don't tell the whole story. But, I
    wouldn't suggest you buy the Caterham if you can't tell the difference
    between them.
    
    Maybe its worth considering how the car can handle its power. Can you
    stick a 200 BHP Cosworth BDG in a Westfield? Will it cope? A Caterham
    can.
    
    On the track, I've heard the Westfield isn't a patch on the Caterham
    (but I'm sure a lot depends on the owner/builder's ability to set the
    car up).
    
    Bill.

    
    Maybe you've hit the nail on the head here, Bill, the Caterham may have
    better ultimate ability, but for most buyers the Westfield would be
    more than they could exploit. Also, as you say, a great deal of a
    car's ability on the track is down to the setting up, so you would
    probably find Westfields which could outhandle Caterhams and vice
    versa.
    
    Unfortunately some cars are sacred cows and can't be judged
    objectively, in the same way as others are damned without good cause,
    and the only comparative test I've ever seen between the two top 7s (if
    you exclude THE original) was written by a Caterham owner who
    announced at the beginning of the article that he knew he wouldn't like
    the Westfield before the test started! Hardly objective journalism as
    the Westfield would have had to be a much BETTER car to overcome his
    prejudice.
    
    Mark
    
    

	The Caterham 7 strikes me as being a good deal overpriced.
	There is after all virtually nothing to it in comparison
	with a regular car with proper seats, doors, carpets, heating,
	stereos etc etc.

	One reason Lotus 7s are so expensive, irrespective of condition, is
	that they're so easy to restore -  even complete alloy rebodying
	is viable, some friends of mine have done one this way.

	-John

	The Sylva clubman is no more a day to day car than the 23 is.  Both
	make the Westfield (and Caterham) look incredibly practical.  The
	Clubman is a racing not road car.

	The Sylva Clubman is, more or less, the same as the Leader, but with
	a different body shape.  It's somewhat remincsent of an Elva.  However,
	building one of these is an order of magnitude more difficult than
	building a Westfield or a Caterham.

	Dave

As the owner, but not the builder, of a Westfield 7SE (it's my wife's car 
actually), I'd say that if what you want is a two seater that puts the FUN
back in driving, then it takes a lot of beating.

Construction is pretty straightforward, with no special tools needed, assuming
that you've got sockets, spanners, axle stands, rivet gun etc. If you take 
your time over the build, you shouldn't have too many problems, and Westfield 
are very helpful. If you can find another pair of hands to help with the heavy
and awkward bits, this can stave off an imminent rupture.

They also have a good spares dept, and can express bits to you for next day 
delivery. And they take Visa and Access. I've found them very good. 

The only word of warning, and this applies to any kit car - you never actually
stop working on the thing. Even driving it to work in Newbury every day, 
there's still the "well supposing I did ......, and if I fitted a ......" 
temptation. I know, I'm off for a complete engine rebuild as soon as the 
weather deteriorates.

So now's the time to start building; it'll keep you occupied during the winter
months, and come the Spring......

See you on the road.

Dick

Sat in a traffic jam at the end of the M3 for � hour
Sat in a traffic jam at the A33 roadworks for � hour
Sat in a traffic jam outside Lyndhurst for � hour
Sat in a traffic jam outside Beaulieu for � hour

Eventually got in, and paid �20 for 3 year's "membership", partly to avoid
having to queue up and buy a ticket (which are �6 per day, incidentally).

The jumble was *big*, and it took all day just to walk round it, noting which
stands had what.  By the time I'd done that, I'd forgotten where the stands were
that I wanted to go back to!

But I managed to get what I went for, plus a couple of bits I'd given up hope
of finding anywhere.

I'd recommend it to anyone trying to find elusive bits, but use a different
route to the one above!  Also, look around before buying, as there are a mixture
of rip-offs and bargains; it's so big you'll probably find what you want at a
price you want to pay.

On the way back, I tried to avoid the A33 South of Winchester by going through
Romsey, and got stuck in traffic leaving a large fair being held that day.  I
think the trick is to arrive at 6am and not leave until 10pm!

Scott

    
    Hmmm.
    
    Got there at 12.00 without any problems.(M27, M271, then signposts all
    the way).  Coming out though....
    
    Bit disappointed by the museum itself, but the rest made up for it.
    
    Nigel
    
    Be interesting to know whether anyone does buy any of the cars for sale
    there and then.  Was tempted by a few, but kept my hands firmly in my
    pockets and left the chequebook at home !

>>    Be interesting to know whether anyone does buy any of the cars for sale
>>    there and then.  Was tempted by a few, but kept my hands firmly in my
>>    pockets and left the chequebook at home !

what sort of cars were for sale?

cheers...


...art

    
    About 60+, and there seemed to be a few changes during the day
    
    The 'ring' is next to the museum, and i presume that the owners pay a
    not insubstantial charge to hire a space in it.  They are all supposed
    to be classics or veterans, and there was a wide variety.
    
    TR5's, TR6's, Daimler Limo (at 6,000), Jensen's, Corvette, Jaguar
    MKII's, and older varieties (1910's) including one on a trailer that
    required a total rebuild.  A 1961 Lotus Supersprint (?) for 20,000. 
    Even a Capri MkI RS3100, a moggie convertible etc etc.  A number of
    one offs that had been built by companies to order.  
    
    Many of the cars seem to have had total rebuilds and will come
    with complete documentary evidence and pictures.  One TR6 came complete
    with it's last 50 bills !
    
    Nigel
    

    A comment on the previous debate as to which is "better" - Caterham or
    Westfield.I think this was nicely summed up in a magazine article I
    read a few months ago:-
    
    If you want what a Caterham has and does and is - then you buy a
    Caterham.
    
    If you want a two seater fast/fun sportscar - then you buy a Westfield.
    
    The cars are not seen as competing for the same customers/markets.
    You choose what you want and you pays your money!!
    
    I chose to build the Caterham ! - I think
    of it as the developed Lotus seven,and that is what I wanted.It's not a
    copy of anything-if Lotus were still building it today it wouldn't be
    the same as a series three,so why expect the Caterham to be.I've
    ridden in a Westfield and it was great.I wouldn't know how to choose
    one above the other - you can't - they are just different!!
    
    On the question of value,I had mine 'valued' by Caterham for insurance
    purposes.The value was about what I expected from reading the
    press/adverts etc. and was about 15% more than it cost me just over a
    year ago.I didn't buy it to make money,but it's nice to know I could
    get my money back - more fun than leaving it in the building society!!
    
    Cheers,John.
    
    
    

	The kit-car is poorly...................


	We were going to Rotherfield park to watch the sprints on Sunday.

	Decided we'd taken the wrong turning, and wanted to turn around.

	A right-hand juction approached.


	We indicated, slowed down, changed to third, were half way across
	the road when...


	Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech from behind, then    Thump.

	A cavalier rear/offside ended us, spinning us around to face the way 
	we were coming.    

	
	The nearside rear tyre also hit the bank.

	We're all OK, apart from Dave, who's back has decided it's going to
	screem.

	The cavalier was a mess - front caved in, and bonnet would not close.
	The side was rippled, and the driver could not open the drivers
	side of the door.

	The kit had a flat nearside rear tyre, and some damage on the bodywork.
	The exhaust is out of place - the brake pipes were split.

	Not sure of what damage may or may not have been done to the axle
	etc.

	We were lucky, he really hit us at speed, and managed to hit the 
	strongest part of the car. A second earlier, and he would have hit us
	in the middle, and Dave would have been mincemeat.

	Our first question to them was to ask them if they were OK.
	They never asked us, but shouted we were on the wrong side of the road
	(how you turn right without crossing the road mistifies us! also,
	to hit us on the rear/offside if we were on the wrong side of the
	road is also a puzzle - they must have been up the hedge!)

	Anyway, they said we were in the wrong - we said that we just wanted 
	the details, and would not discuss it (the two blokes looked as if they 
	were spoiling for a fight)

	I happened to have my camera, 'cause we were expecting to take piccies 
	of the race. I took pictures of the accident - much to their annoyance.

	The worst thing about it (as we were all up and walking about) was the
	agression from the two blokes in the other car. I thought they were 
	actually going attack us at one point - then people came out of a house
	from along the road.

	So, I'll let you know what happens - but it doesn't look as if we'll 
	be able to get the assesors out, and the bits fixed before castle coombe
	in a couple of weeks - we're keeping our fingers crossed.

	Heather

	Opps, I forgot about Rotherfield...........


	Alans first sprint, and he was second in his class, and has a little
	trophy.     28.77 seconds.

	
	The third run was abandoned, when a bloke lost the back end just
	after the start.


	He went through the fence - which was wire.

	The helmet was the thing that stopped the wire getting to his throat and
	decappitating him. He went to hospital, he was OK to go home - with
	a neck brace.

	The fence will be removed next time - July and September next year.

	We had loaned Alan the landrover, and he had hired a trailer.
	Alan drove his car home, and we put our kit-car on the trailer and
	drove back on the landrover.


	A very strange Sunday

	Heather

    RE: .558
    
    
    Oh Heather....... what can I say?
    
    Laurie.

	Sorry to hear about the accident, glad that you're both ok.  If it
	were me I'd probably have cried.

	Dave

Sorry to hear the bad news.  That's the third accident I've heard about this
week... hopefully there won't be any more.

Scott

    
    RE .563
    
    Hopefully the saying about bad news coming in 3s is true.
    
    Sorry to hear about the car Heather, it must have been heartbreaking.
    
    I hope you get it back on the road soon.
    
    Mark

    
    Poor car, but glad to hear you're OK. Pity it wasn't the Landy they had
    a go at! 
    
    Good luck with the insurance claim.  We found the assessor really
    helpful, and interested in the 23 when he came to look at our fire
    damage. Hope you get someone as good. 
         

	The assesor's going to think he's hallucinating.


	A woman reveresed into Alans NG TC 3.9 V8 (whilst it was parked outside
	his mothers house) a couple of weeks ago.
	Alan had it assessed, and made enough repairs for it to race Sunday.
	He still has to have the body work done.

	As Alan will be doing our car, the Assesor is going to have to come to 
	the same pub - this time to inspect the rear end of an NC TC 3.5 V8.


	Alan will do most of the work (you don't think he'd let us touch it!!),
	the bodywork (if it's repair and not replace) and spraying will be done 
	at the local garage. (where the spraying was done initially).
	
	Whilst we're at it, we'll order and fit the new seats we were eyeing 
	up at Sandown............one winter job done early!

	Well, that's the plan anyway.

	Sorry Laurie, you'll have to wait a bit longer.

	Heather   

	PS I'll now have to wear that leather helmet when driving the landrover

Heather: I presume the seats you saw at Sandown were on the Corbeau stand?

Cobra and Corbeau seem to be the two biggest players in the car seats market
(excluding specialised racing seats).  I found Cobra far more helpful, better
organised, cheaper and (if they deliver on time!) a lot quicker.  As the two
companies' ranges are very similar, I'd recommend Cobra over Corbeau...

Scott

	Thanks, we have the handouts at home, I'll check

I'm planning some major engine work on the Westfield this autumn, to produce a 
little more power (120-130bhp at the flywheel) and to make the engine more 
reliable. There appear to be two ways to do this.

1/Take the old engine to someone like Oselli and get them to do the work in 
  exchange for something like 1200 notes, or

2/Buy a kit of bits from someone like RJD at Sutton Scotney for about 600 notes
  and do all the assembly work myself.

From a purely financial point of view, 2/ would appear to have a lot going for
it. It would also mean that the Westfield is only off the road for the time it
takes to swap the engines over. But the big question is "how good are the kits 
that RJD and others supply"?

Oselli are a known quantity and will stand by the work that they do, the same
may not be true for the engine kit suppliers. Does anyone out there have any
experience of buying a X Flow engine kit, what's the quality like, and how did
the suppliers perform.

Dick

you can buy the whole engine (in bits) fom RJD for �600; 
their x-flows are used by some people in the CCC caterham race series;
and lap records have been set using their engines (so they claim).

SPR probably do the highest quality x-flow engines (according to Caterham
salesmen).

but do you really need a complete new engine for the extra power?


CCC had a long article a couple of issues ago about tuning the x-flow which
would probably be useful to you.


...art

The current engine is bog standard Ford 1600 but with twin 40DCOE's and the 
4-2-1 exhaust. Now this motor looks as if it has been around for some time, and
although it's not consuming vast quantities of oil, making dubious metallic
noises, or distributing it's component parts over the Berkshire countryside, it
is a bit tired now, but still throwing out about 104 bhp at the flywheel.

To give it a new lease of life, make it stronger and fitter, + a bit more power,
the plan is to rebore, balance/toughen crank and conrods, new Hepolite pistons,
port and gas flow the head, bigger valves, stronger springs, new HP oil pump, 
etc. This will give around 125 bhp which is nice, but more importantly it will
make the whole engine stronger, smoother, and less likely to break.

Dick

    
    How much would a new and/or second hand Westfield 7 cost me to buy? 
    I wouldn't be interested in building one myself, but would certainly
    like to have one as a second car.
    
    Any details or ideas would be appreciated.
    
    Thanks,Tony 

Westfields, being kit cars, have specifications that reflect the needs of their
owners and builders. Prices/costs therefore vary accordingly. You might be able
to pick up an oldish SE model for as little as �3500, but you might also spend a 
time looking. At the other end of the spectrum, you could go for a wide bodied
SEi with 180-200bhp for around �10000.

A reasonable budget figure for a fairly "normal" car would be �4.5-6-5k.

I paid �5k for my two year old fully trimmed SE with a standard 1600 X-Flow with
twin 40DCOE's, alloys, etc.

Dick

    
    Thanks for the info, I was looking at probably spending about 4.5k.
    
    Cheers
    Tony

    Dick,
    
    I used the RJD kit in my Caterham.They are not noted for the 'personal
    service ' touch,you place your order,they give you a number,when its
    ready you collect it - thats it! In my case (2 years ago) I had to wait
    an extra few weeks because their 'head' expert was off sick!,but when I
    eventually got the kit it was fine.The 'detailed build manual' they
    provided was a Haynes manual for an escort mexico - "it tells you how
    to re-build a mexico engine" they said - and it did too,so no problem.
    
    It was complete for what it was,but I still needed to source the
    anciliaries,brackets,pulleys,etc.If you are starting with an engine
    already in the car,you'll have these bits.
    
    I'd never built an engine before,and mine was fine first time.I used 
    Caterham manifolds,twin DCOE40s,and on the rolling road at Phegre
    Engineering,at Phoenix
    Green I got 118bhp at the wheels,which is something like 135/138 at the
    flywheel.
    
    So,I have no complaints about RJD.I'd use them again,but they were a
    bit short on the personal service,though they did answer a couple of
    build queries I had,I recall.
    
    Good value for money - you could get more done for you by some of the
    others,but it costs more.
    
    Cheers,John
    

    John
    
    Thanks for the info. I think I'll give them a call, or maybe pop down
    to see them this weekend. As you say, you pay for what you get, and for
    that price there has to be something missing.
    
    I've built or rebuilt a few engines in my past, so I don't have too
    many issues on that front. It was really more a question of the quality
    of the bits that you get, and whether it all goes together properly.
    I'd also like to know what happens if something breaks, like a con rod.
    What kind of warranty, if any, could you expect. I assume from your
    note that you havn't had any problems in that area.
    
    Well it looks like RJD winning over Oselli at the moment, on the basis
    of both cost and time off the road, so if you fancy getting involved in
    another "build", you only have to call.
    
    Dick 

    Just for my own edification...
    
    On the subject of motors-
    
    A number of years ago, Burtons was one of the 'hot' Ford engine
    builder/tuners.  How are they considered today?
    
    	-Barry_who_sold_the_Cosworth_1300_with_his_Lotus_7-

    Barry,
    
    I looked at the Burton literature when I decided on RJD.Technically
    they seemed to be much the same offering,so I picked the one I could go
    see - Burton are up north somewhere,RJD in Winchester.
    I've read a write up a few months ago on a Burton powered 7 with a
    steel bottom end engine,which got a good review,so they are still
    about.
    
    Cheers,John
    

    
    
    BURTON
    
    623/631 Eastern Avenue,
    Ilford, Essex. IG2 6PN
    
    081-554-8507
    
    Mark

  I bought a Burton cam for my 1300 xflow about a year ago. They were helpful,
seemed to know what they are on about (but maybe that was just because I wasn't 
sure about it before they told me !!!!!). The cam they recommended was a good
fast road cam, which gave definite gains, but needed no excessive setting up
(although I would like to put offset dowel on if I can sus-out how to get the
old one out without having to remove the engine!!! Some hope!) and hasnt given
any trouble yet. And still cheaper than Kent/piper .

  Alan
 ~~~~~~

How about you guys with weird and wonderful cars scanning in some piccies, and
entering them in DECW notes, so that we can get an idea of how they look. 

(Mr mod, please remove this if you fear for your disk space !!)

Warren

	Sorry, no scanner, no DECw notes, and a VT241


	Heather

    
    The quality of motoring journalism has come in for a lot of stick
    in this conference, especially the impartiality and objectiveness of 
    road testers.
    
    However, I can't help but think that 99% of kit car journalists
    wouldn't now oversteer from a powerslide! Every article I've ever
    read about a new kitcar praises it's 'wonderfully neutral handling'
    and 'lack of body roll'. Many of these cars have bog standard Escort
    or Cortina suspension! While the handling may be ok for such saloony
    type machines, most kit cars make some allusions to being sportscars.
    
    Do kitcars all have fantastic handling (Dave Rusling mentioned that
    his Marlin understeers - I've never seen an article which mentions
    this even in passing) or are kitcar magazines just a load of pretty
    pictures joined by lists of donor parts and the life stories of the
    people who make the cars?
    
    Mark

	Mark,
		I've said it before too.  In the main, the kit car articles
	are not very critical.  Of anything.  Now, this varies from magazine
	to magazine.  I did once read two articles about the same car where
	one magazine thought that it was great and the other thought that it
	was rubbish.  I've even read descriptions of real safety problems
	that dismissed them with lines such as "of course, this will be 
	fixed on the production car...".

		In general, the kit magazine writers are enthusiasts who
	don't know too much about the driving characteristics of a given 
	car.  They, in my opinion, tend to be uncritical of many things about
	a car.  To be fair, this is a fairly common attitude towards kits by
	their owners.  Usually, there's a hard-core of kit owners looking for
	more power and better handling, but the rest are perfectly happy 
	with their odd-shaped family saloons!

		However, perhaps this is better than the know-it-all cynical
	attitude of some journalists in the regular car press.  Perhaps worst
	of all is watching Top Gear.  It makes me grind my teeth to watch
	the way they drive...

	Dave

    	In the US we have a publication called Kit Cars, put out by
    Peterson, who also do Hot Rod. You would think the quality of Hot Rod
    would lap over to Kit Cars, but...!  It was so bad, I canceled my
    subscription (a major reaction for me). They were technically inept and
    had little knowledge of the cars that the kits replicated. They
    evidently did no research (like reading '50s articles on Jag 120/140s)
    but relied on often flakey second hand information. Gaaaah! - Chris

Most kits have a much lower centre of mass than the donor from which suspension
et al was taken.  Hence less body roll.  They're also lighter, so the springs
appear stiffer, hence even less body roll.  Joe Average will assess the
"handling" of a car by how much it throws him around, and how much it throws
itself around, hence kits appear to have excellent handling.  Also, being
that much lower, any roll is far less noticeable.

Engines will seem more powerful as they have less weight to pull.  Brakes will
seem better as they have less weight to stop.

Engines usually sit behind the front wheels in kits (they're directly over them
in production cars), giving a better weight
distribution; coupled with lack of roll, this keeps the wheels in better
contact with the road, improving steering.

So for ordinary use (if such a term can be applied to kit cars ;-) a kit car
will (at least appear to) handle better than the Euro Rot Box from which it is
derived.  As Derek, says, take it to the limits and who knows what might
happen.  If Dave ever drives the Marlin slow enough, the understeer might
go away ;-)))

Back to the subject of kit car mags, my main gripe is they can't write
grammatically correct sentences like what I can...

Scott

	Yes, the understeer is only apparent in certain circumstances and
	presumeably after you'd get it in a Cortina.  All your other remarks
	about a kit's handling better than its donor are correct; you wouldn't	
	believe how well a Marlin Roadster based on a Marina handles!

	Don't you need to soften the springs in most kits to compensate
	for the reduced weight ??? I remember when I took the back of
	my Moggy van, the lack of weight and standard springs made the
	back end hop about all over the place. I did intend to fit radius
	arms (or trailing arms, or whatever that are called) and coil over
	shocks to replace the cart springs, but like all good ideas, it
	came to nothing and I just took out a few of the leaves ...

   Mark

	Yep, re-rated springs are usually used.  However, to some degree,
	the original springs are usually too soft, so leaving them alone
	gives about the right rate.  The Marlin has down rated front
	springs and 1300 rear springs (softer than the 2000/1600) on the 
	back with re-rated shocks front and back.

	Dave

Re .569

I've ordered the 1700 xflow kit from RJD, with a 285 Piper cam. They are also 
supplying a Piper distributor to match the cam, a steel crank pulley to replace
the 'flyapart' standard pressed one, and a h/duty clutch cover and plate.
With the twin 40's and the 4-2-1 manifold, this should give around 135bhp at the
flywheel, and a useable rev range from 2�-7k.

Everything should be ready for collection from Sutton Scotney in about 4 weeks
time, so it looks like November is going to be 'engine building month'.

RJD were very helpful on the phone, so it looks like times have changed from 
when John dealt with them 2 years ago. They are also in the process of moving
back to Hanwell from the Winchester area, although it will be the end of the 
year before they finally give up the premises. If anybody else is thinking of
an RJD engine, lead times could be extended from Saturday if they win some
championship or other - I think it's the Caterham 7 races.

I'll post a few notes to let you know how I get on with the build.

Vrooooom.......Dick

Further to my comments umpteen replies ago, I  strongly recommend
Cobra Supaform.  My seats are really nice, excellent quality and finish.
They're a small, very friendly company (husband + wife + 30 employees) and take
a lot of trouble to ensure customer satisfaction.

Also, they originally designed the "Sportscar Recliner" seat.  It has passed
the relevant European tests for safety, etc.  All others (eg Corbeau) are
actually copies of this design, and I don't think they have been tested in the
same way.

Scott

PS I've just discovered that Panther cars are Korean; not a lot of
people know that!

	Yes, I knew that Panther Cars were owned by a Korean company, they're
	still made here, though.  Although I did hear two rumours about them,
	(1) they've stopped making the Kalista, and (2) they've gone bust.

	As for Cobra; yes, my seats are Cobra Narrow Backed Sports recliners.
	They're very comfortable and the company is extremely helpful.

	Dave

    Anybody having info on the Auburn speedster replica, where is it made
    and sold ? Seen one recently in a magazine article, sounds terrific !
    A roadsters lover,
    Chr-Jacques

    For all you kit car buffs......
    
    I have a friend who has a brand new Cortina Servo and master cylider
    gathering dust in his garage. If anybody wants to mail me I'll give a
    phone number that he can be contacted on...... don't know how much is
    wanted for it.

    Re -1 .....
    
    Cylinder has gone servo still available to anybody interested.

The 7 fractured its exhaust manifold on Saturday, probably caused by a previous
owners "ex-works" mod which involved welding a stay bracket onto the end of the 
pipe. Should have the manifold welded back together again tonight, and needless
to say, the mod will have to be modded.

Now where did I put those rubber bobbins........

Dick

    
    I am currently building a cobra replica..have been for some months now.
    Recently I managed to get hold of a pair of side pipes (I haven't
    decided wether to use underfloor or side pipes yet)...however, the
    baffles are completly shot and need replacing.
    
    Does anyone know if you can get replacements and where ?..or are these
    items beyond renovation (If the price for new baffles was reasnoble I'd
    opt for the side pipes..if not I'll probably but underfloor exhaust
    system)
    
    Just to update you on the build (for those who are interested). I have
    completed the rebuild of the front and rear suspensions and have bolted
    them to the chassis (not too much trouble). The springs and shocks are
    on order from the kit manufacturer so the kit should be rolling with
    brakes rebuilt by christmas. Engine and gearbox are still on stands
    waiting fittment and wiring loom is also on order...I'm hoping the
    engine will be running by end of FEB and the body fitted by end of
    April.  I'll keep you all updated..in the meantime anyone know about
    side pipe baffles ????
    
    Tom 

Look through kit magazines and CCC for specialist suppliers who stock side-pipe
exhausts.  A couple of phone calls should tell you whether it's possible and
cheap enough.

Scott

If anyone's wondering what's happening on the Westfield's engine build, then 
the answer is ....... not a lot. RJD have been having problems getting hold of
suitable blocks to re-engineer, which means that their delivery times have gone
out from 4 to 10 weeks. Still, I'm hopeful that by the end of next week I'll 
have a delivery date.

In the meantime, I've had all this spare time to build an electrically powered
Jeep for my seven year old daughter.

Dick

    Freelance design or to plans. Any chance of a looksee if you worked to
    plans, Dick?

The kit is by Real Time Toys in Sheffield. For �20 they will sell you a build 
manual and a set of full size paper plans. You then cut the tub out of �" ply or
MDF (cheaper/easier/better) and glue/screw it all together. How you build the
rest depends and the facilities that you have and/or the amount of time/money
available. The manual has drawings/dimensions/b.o.m for all the metal parts
needed, but they also supply the built assemblies. The only things that you
really have to buy from them are the motor (special 200 watt 25:1 gearbox) and
the wheels, although you could use other wheels and redesign the brakes.

The whole thing runs off a 12v battery, with a top speed of 6mph. It's suitable
for 4-10yr olds, although I have managed to get in and drive mine!

Cost varies according to how much you build yourself and the specification 
(L/GL/GLS/CD). Cheapest would be aroun �150 - I've spent a bit(!) more than
this.

Further details by arrangement at Newbury, or viewing in my garage at Tilehurst.

Dick

ps. they also do a vintage car kit

    The only people that I can think of that would get as far as to want to
    do this kind of thing are those that build kit cars, so I'll ask it
    here. I'm not building a Kit car, but doing an off-car renovation of
    the major bits of a '77 Granada (front cradle/suspenders/brakes/steering 
    first, then rear subframe/brakes/diff/suspenders, then engine/trans)
    and I was wondering how anybody had dealt with the question that's
    bending my mind at the moment. I am reluctant to hang a couple of
    really rusty looking disc rotors (apart from the friction surfaces!) on
    the end of a new-looking assembly and wanted to know if anybody had
    ever considered painting that particular piece of metal after derusting
    it. Does the rotor get hot enough under normal driving conditions to
    burn paint? Would a hight temperature paint for exhausts be suitable?
    Same question, too for the calipers.

Given the choice, I'd leave these bits as bare metal. But if you really felt 
that you had to paint them, then I'd go for something like Sperex HT. Surfaces
would need to be scrupulously clean, but you'd always run the risk of paint 
flaking off and getting somewhere it shouldn't be, like on the friction 
material.

You'd also need to be very careful of the rubber bits on the calipers as the 
paint solvents may attack them.

Unless you are into F1 Granada racing then Sperex should be able to take the 
brake temperatures. It did a very good job resisting an arc welder on my 
exhaust manifold a couple of weeks ago!

But basically - I wouldn't bother.

Dick

    They get hot enough to burn the skin, so I assume any 'normal'
    paint wouldn't last long.

    I used high temperature paint on the rear drums on the MGB
    (ooopppsss, wrong Note) and it has lasted well ... two years
    and still going strong. The paint I used was one for use on 
    cast iron stoves and ovens.

 Mark

    ....I kind of thought that's what would be recommended. I'd thought of
    the rubber bits on the calipers just after i put the question in and
    had pretty much decided that I wouldn't be painting them, just giving
    them a good clean up with a wire brush. But the rotors....... it seems
    a shame to have such a tatty bit of metal on a new looking subframe!
    Sperex might just be the answer, though. What's a spraycan cost these
    days?

	Err, I have a little problem.


	The montego's having it's rear-end fixed, so I'm driving the NG to work
	Yup, along from Theale to DECpark at 8.30ish.

	Well, as you can imagine, it's stop-stop for most of the way.

	I was wondering what to do to occupy my time, and decided to watch the
	gauges.

	I started to worry.

	The water temperature was rising VERY quickly.....190....200.....
	210....220....

	230 was the max on the dial. I had just started to indicate to pull 
	onto the hard shoulder - the next time the Queue moved forward enough 
	for me to do this - and the temperature started to drop.

	We sarted to move then too, about 5mph.

	Well, the temperature cmae down very fast, to 180.

	Then I started to wonder why the gauge was marked in a funny
	way - 130-150-170-190-212-230.

	why was it 212, not 210...............then the hammer thunked.

	opps, 212 is that old number for boiling water temp........and the 
	gauge had been at 220+	    

	So, have I done any nasty damage???????? would this perish my hoses? 
	and why the increase and then the sudden drop?

	Stuck fan? air bubble?

	Any help appreciated - I'll get it checked out at the weekend - after
	I drive it home the back-way tonight(I hope).

	Heather - who's brain must have toddled off, never to return.

    The car cooling system is pressurised, so the coolant boils at > 100�C
    (or 212�F...).  It is perfectly normal for the temp to be (a bit) higher
    than the "normal" boiling point.
    
    If you have an electric fan, check its thermostat is set properly.  The
    fan should cut in before the temp gauge reaches 230�F.  Or maybe the
    gauge isn't accurate!
    
    Scott
    
    Scott

    
    Is the anti-freeze mixture ok? I had a similar problem on a cold
    morning some years ago with my Cavalier.
    
    Basically the radiator froze at the bottom and the water stopped
    circulating and the engine got hot. I stopped for a few moments and
    started up again and the water had melted the ice and the temperature
    dropped back again.
    
    Not VERY likely, but worth checking it out.
    
    Mark

    I would agree with the last few comments - if you can't smell the
    anti-freeze and the temperature doesn't go completely haywire there is
    nothing to worry about.  I had a problem of the radiator cap pressure
    release spring being too soft - the radiator would empty enough water
    prevent the electric fan temperature sensor (mounted right at the top
    of the cooling system) to switch the fan on - so everything got a bit
    hot before I could limp to a source of water.  So much for pressure
    testing!
    
    Rob

	Well,

	I can't smell anti - freeze, I was just worried about going up to
	220, when the gauge itself only went up to 230........

	and then when I clicked about 212.......

	The car hasn't been run anywhere for the last six weeks, so something
	sticking seems the best bet.

	I'll print the suggestions and get Alan to check-it-out over the weekend

	Thanks,

	Panicky of Theale

    >>> BTW you let your valuable kit car stand for 6 weeks and did you
    >>> check the water oil air pressure and engine mounting tightness
    >>> before setting out?
    
    
    	Aaargh - are you serious ? Do you really check the engine mounts
    when you take the car out ? You do don't you ?
    I understand that your car is a little exceptional, but as a means of
    transport it has to be totally impractical if you do this after a short
    lay-up.
    
    Sorry, I flipped :-)
    It's just that ever since I had the Stiletto, which used to surprise me
    *every* time I drove it (from boiling the rad, to switching on the
    windscreen wipers to have one of them fly off the spindle - guess which
    one) and which I was constantly checking and constantly being caught
    out, now all I look for in a car is something that starts first time
    every time, gets from A to B with no problems on the way, behaves in
    heavy traffic, cruises on motorways, and dosn't cost a fortune to buy
    or run.
    
    AmS
    
    oh, nearly forgot, it has to go like stink too. 

    
>>    It's just that ever since I had the Stiletto, which used to surprise me
    *every* time I drove it (from boiling the rad, to switching on the
    windscreen wipers to have one of them fly off the spindle - guess which
    one) and which I was constantly checking and constantly being caught
    out, now all I look for in a car is something that starts first time
    every time, gets from A to B with no problems on the way, behaves in
    heavy traffic, cruises on motorways, and dosn't cost a fortune to buy
    or run.
>>
    
    BORING .... :-) :-) 
    
    (but it is nice to have a car like that as well as the 'interesting
    ones' )    
    
    And yes, everything is checked on the 23 before any outing. 

    Part of the fun of owning a kit car is to keep having to fix it :-)
    
    But I'm glad that I've got a backup car...
    
    Rob

    Understand that you racing types do a lot more than us mere travellers 
    in terms of checking out the vehicle before taking it on the track, but
    then you're putting it to a lot more stress and strain than "we" do. If
    you think that your checklist is long..... think about the pre-flight
    checks done ona a Tornado before Biggles takes it into the air.
    
    I am interested in your comments as we all probably take out vehicles
    for granted and don't do much in the way of preventative maintenance or
    problem spotting...... we just wait for something to break. 
    
    But...... aren't you confusing "development" with "maintenance" in your
    comment in .622?
    

    Taking ther car out on the road for the first time SHOULD lead to the
    behaviour you describe, Derek. Safety would demand that. But you
    infer that every kit car driver should do the same for every journey.  
    
    At regular intervals, yes, and they might even be weekly. That might be
    construed as maintenace. Re-organising the cooling system to cope with
    an overheating problem that a change in driving style has allowed to
    develop is more development than maintenace, though, surely?
    
    Critical areas will no doubt use the correct fasteners such as split
    pins, tab washers and Nylocs so major bits can't/shouldn't fall off.
    The bits that will fall off due to vibration will be things like
    windscreen wipers etc......... where the fastening may not be up to the
    increased level of shake rattle and roll.
    
    P.S. Can you drop those nuts that you want thinning down into my house
    next Monday sometime?

    Derek, I am still somewhat confused about whether you are talking about
    your experience of keeping the Noble on the racetrack (mechanically
    speaking!) or whether you are talking about experience of building and
    running a kit car as regular transport. I am still of the opinion that
    a car put together with a the appropriate stance to sensitivity to
    torque used to tighten things up and the correct use of fasteners
    should perhaps be a bit more trouble free than you suggest, but am
    open to correction. Do any of the "regular" drivers of kit cars care to
    add their two penn'orth? Dave Rusling..... are you still there.....?

    I tend to agree with Derek about having to check things regularly (and
    finding things that need work).  The kit that I've got (Caterham 7) was
    post-build checked by them and there were still little problems that
    surfaced days/weeks/months after that.  If you're serious about not
    spending huge piles of money on replacing damaged comonents and time
    fixing things when a bit of PM would have found the problems then
    dont't treat a kit like any bog-standard car.  Also it's probably going
    to be you that suffers when something does go wrong - it might have the
    most serious outcome...
    
    Rob

	I take the advice of the guy who built the car. He has a very similar 
	one himself still, and as he is our local landlord, then he has a 
	vested interest in the continuance of our health, and therefore visits 
	to the pub!      :-)


	It was checked over every month during the summer, and just before we
	drove it for the last time. 

	He couldn't look at it this weekend, but will be looking at it during 
	the week. We're back in the Montego and Landrover now.


	Thanks for all the advice,

	Heather

    Perhaps this "avenue of exploration" (fancy name for a rathole) is coming
    to a close......
    
    I don't have a problem with regular mechanical checks for a car,
    especially one that's not had as much testing as others, but lets
    agree that we shouldn't go overboard and make the checking commensurate
    with the use.  

re:

>>    23 does it all the time. Quick burn along the road and then
>>    idle starts to send the water temp up regardless of the fan.
>>    I just raise the RPM to 2K from the idle at 850 and the temp comes
>>    down in about 20 seconds.

   And does it stay down, or do you have to keep the revs up ??? The
   reason I ask is that I have the same overheating problem with my MGB.
   Since the engine and radiator are fairly recent, I couldn't think
   what could be causing this problem. Since all the bits are standard,
   (no possible pully size problems) all I can assume is that the water 
   pump isn't doing its job very well (this item is not so new).

   Can't this method of getting the temperature down be counter productive
   since increased revs must lead to increased heating.

 Mark

How useful / important / essential is an oil cooler for "ordinary" road use?
Are the benefits worth all the plumbing nightmares of fitting one?

Scott

    How hot does your oil get?
    
    Rob

    That all depends on whether your kit car has a 911 flat 6 or not...

The engine is a Ford 1769 CVH (ie Sierra 1800 lump).  It is standard, and will
be pulling less weight than a Sierra, so the oil will presumably not get as hot
as the manufacturer's allowed for  It has no oil cooler on the Sierra.

But MGB 1800 engines did have coolers.  Was that because of the engine type,
or because of the type of use the car was expected to get.

I don't know yet how hot the oil will get; the engine doesn't have any in at
the moment (well, a bit, just to stop things going rusty...).  I was just
wondering whether an oil cooler was worth considering...

Scott

    In general, I would say that an oil cooler is not required on a
    'standard-spec' engine, in 'normal road' use - unless one was
    fitted in the donor car.
    
    You may require one in a kit if the engine receives less cooling
    air than it did in the donor.  Note that there is actually a very
    large space for air intake in the front of the Sierra.
    
    Engine cooling is achieved by both the water radiator and the oil -
    either from airflow over the sump, or through an oil cooler.
    Only way to find out if you *really* find is to fit an oil
    temperature gauge when the car is running.  Of course, this is
    not the easiest time to fit the cooler...
    
    J.R.

Scott, does this mean that you're not even considering a gearbox oil cooler?

One thing that you have to remember with production cars, is that the engine 
is usually designed in as part of the overall package (Mini's excepted). The kit
car designer usually is limited to what's available "off-the-shelf", but 
ultimately has no control over what the builder actually installs. He also 
doesn't have the sophisticated test facilities available to the big 
manufacturers for airflow and heat dissipation.

The nature of the kit car is such that the underbonnet space is usually far more
cramped than the engine bay of the car that the engine originally languished in.
This means that heat isn't removed that well. A lot of kit cars sport bonnet
louvres or various other holes in the bodywork that help to get rid of the 
heat (or look trendy!). Some additional slots may prove useful to improve 
matters, coupled to baffles in the undertray to better direct the airflow. I'm
probably going to slot the bonnet on the Westfield as soon as I can work out a 
way that lets the hot air out without letting the water in!.

Above all, fit the biggest radiator that you can in the space available, plus
an oil cooler. If the coolant is getting hot, then the engine is getting hot,
and if the engine is getting hot, then so is the oil. 

Anyone wanting to gain a practical insight into oil cooler installation should
visit my garage shortly. The mounting hardware is in place in the Westfield, and
the cooler will be fitted when the new engine goes in (engine kit should be 
available for collection tomorrow!!)

Dick

    Things certainly get hot in a kit car! A few weeks ago I was rebuilding
    the passenger footwell in the 7,and had to drive a short distance with
    no footwell in place - the heat coming into the car was unbearable - it
    certainly shows that the airflow clears a lot of heat.
    The 7 does not have an oil cooler,and runs a standard radiator - there
    is a larger capacity unit available - and for road use the water
    temperature has never been a problem,rock steady on the gauge.There is
    an electric fan fitted,louvres in the bonnet,and reasonable space
    around the engine,so I'm sure that helps.
    If I ever decide to race it,an oil cooler would go in,but for road/fun
    use,it seems OK as it is.
    
    Dick,let me know what you think of the RJD engine kit when you get it.
    If you had to wait,does this mean that the seemingly endless supply of
    Ford 711M blocks is starting to dry up? Should I get a spare block in
    store now,ready for the day I blow mine up!!
    I read somewhere that Hot Rod / Stock Car racers can get through
    several blocks a season - the supply has to run out one day.
    
    Cheers,John.

    Any views on what sort of fire extinguisher I should carry in the 7?
    
    Hand held,plumbed in,mechanical,electric/electronic?,2.5k or 5.0k,
    BCF?,buy a kit,have it fitted,how much to pay,where to get it
    from,where to put it,anything else I should know?
    
    John.

�    Any views on what sort of fire extinguisher I should carry in the 7?
    
    Wouldn't that depend on whether you do race it or not ?
    
    If you are going to race it and you are going to fit
    extinguisher(s) in the mean time, you may as well fit
    whatever is required by the rules.
    
    J.R.

    
    Fit a plumbed in one! - Somewhere, probably in the Noble 23 note is a 
    description of the fire that we had in the engine compatment. If we had
    had to use a hand held one, I'm sure the damage would have been much
    greater. By opening the bonnet to use a hand held extinguisher, you
    risk injury to yourself, and you allow more oxygen into the engine bay,
    so  allowing the fire to spread. We have a 5Kg bottle, with 'plumbing'
    which goes to the back - under the carbs, and to the front, where all
    the electrics are. Come and have a look at the 23 sometime if you are
    interested.
    
    Elaine

1) Get a 5kg one.  Fire extinguishers only last a few seconds (the big CO2 ones
around DECPark are less than a minute!), so you want to fit the biggest to be
most effective.

2) Have it plumbed in.  Otherwise, by the time you've found it , got it out,
got out of the car, found the fire, opened the bonnet (which in itself will
cause an explosion, damaging the car and you!), pressed the lever...  it will
be too late.

3) BCF (ie Halon) is best.  Powder is effective but very messy; it will solidify
on all the hot bits and you'll never get it off.  CO2 is bulkier than Halon
for the same effect.  Note that BCF is *toxic*.  The Halon used in computer
room flooding isn't, but there's a lot more of it.  As there's a limited supply
in the fire extinguisher, they use the most potent stuff available.  Once you've
released it, *get out of the car quickly* (if the presence of fire hasn't
already persuaded you to do this!)

Speedex Autospares (Westbury) sell DIY plumbing kits, for about �100, including
the extinguisher, two release cables and miles of pipework.  I have a credit
note for about �25 from them which you can buy at face value if you do go there,
as I'm not sure when I'll next need something from them...

Scott

� -< 5kg plumbed-in BCF >-
    
    Would this be used in saloon cars (either racing or rallying) ?
    
    If so, would it's toxic nature be more of a problem ?
    
    J.R.

    Re .647
�    Toxic? only in that it displaces oxygen.
    
    I based my question on the statement in .645
    
�for the same effect.  Note that BCF is *toxic*.  The Halon used in computer
    
    
    I was under the impression that BCF was used as extinguishant
    in rally cars, hence my question.
    
    As has already been said, if your car is on fire, you
    should get out of it a.s.a.p. - regardless of what your
    extinguisher may be doing.
    
    J.R.

    Thanks for all the advice - plumbed in 5k BCF sounds like the answer.
    
    I'm not planning any race use in the near future,it's just that someone
    I know had his seven burst into flames when a petrol pipe union came
    lose just driving along,and as was said in the earlier notes here,you
    have to be that much more careful about these sort of things in a kit
    car,things can shake lose etc. ever so easily.
    
    At about 100 pounds I'll add it to my christmas present list,but if
    Santa doesn't cough up and I need your voucher,I'll give you a call -
    thanks Scott.
    
    John.

    Thanks Derek - I'll check those banjo bolts again tonight - I have twin
    Webber side drafts!!
    
    John.

    Well, I am now the proud owner of about 99% of all the bits that you
    need to build a X-Flow engine (the other 1% are the tab washers and
    bolts). This means that I collected the RJD engine kit yesterday, an
    activity not without it's interesting moments.
    
    When I got there, everything was ready except the head. A final QA
    check had revealed minute imperfections around one of the seats, so
    they had to scrap it and start again. They were still doing the final
    machining when I arrived, and the head needed cleaning and a coat of
    paint before any assembly.
    
    No problem, so I load everything (except clutch cover and plate - still
    on backorder) into the back of the Citroen, and head off back to
    Reading. Once back home everything gets unloaded into the previously
    cleaned garage, and it's time to have a really good look at all the
    bits that will keep mw busy 'til the New Year. Oh no - the block has no
    camshaft bearings!
    
    Phone up RJD - humble apologies, there were two blocks in the
    collection area, one complete and one without camshaft shells - he'd
    picked up the wrong one. So it was back to Hanwell to do a swap. Good
    job I don't live in Manchester.
    
    I am still in the preliminary stages of the build at the moment. The
    head has been cleaned and painted, and I've also painted the block to
    match. Final coat should go on tonight. The block oilway plugs have
    been fitted, along with the rear core plug, and I've fitted a new
    spigot bearing on the crankshaft (your trick with the 8mm Rawlbolt
    didn't work Derek - I had to resort to a cold chisel!).
    
    Next stage is to fit the crankshaft rear oil seal, crankshaft, conrods
    and pistons. By then, hopefully, Anchor Ford will have the canshaft
    thrust plate and tabwasher, so I can then get the camshaft installed.
    If not, I'll divert to the head and do the valvegear.
    
    More reports as the build progresses.
    
    BTW John, I'm going to fit a plumbed in extinguisher to the Westfield
    next year, before the first sprint, so what I discover from that
    installation may be of use to your Caterham.
    
    
    Dick

My son is is in the process of modifying the front of his Clan Crusader to 
have smoothly faired in headlamps instead of the standard protuberant pods. 

He'll need different lamps though - somewhat shallower (top-to-bottom) than
the originals, so as to fit beneath transparent covers flush with the
bonnet. Anyone know of a suitable type?  They'll need to be about 75% max. 
of the depth of the originals which look about the same height as those
fitted to Mk.1 Ford Fiestas. 

He's wondering if it would be feasible to fit twin-filament main/dip bulbs
to a pair of accessory spotlamps, many of which are a good size for what he 
wants; any comments on this? 

Thanks,
Richard

	Well guys, my heating problem was a sticking thermostat.

	It's OK now, and Alan's said we should run it for 10 mins a week, to 
	ensure everythings running smoothly (rather than letting it sit for 6 
	weeks at-a-time).


	Heather

Re: .653

> He's wondering if it would be feasible to fit twin-filament main/dip bulbs
> to a pair of accessory spotlamps, many of which are a good size for what he 
> wants; any comments on this? 

Unless the spotlamps are type-approved as headlights (which is extremely
unlikely) it would be illegal.

All lights must be type-approved for the purpose that they are being used for,

jb

	I've been away in Bournemouth on a course, so no noting...

	1.  Now it's been on the road for 3 and a bit years, the Marlin
	gets about as much care as an ordinairy car should from a 
	conscientious owner.  Regular fluid level checks, tyre pressure
	checks.  General inspections (nothing loose, lights work).  Service
	at appropriate intervals.

	2. Oil cooling.  The Marlin doesn't have it, and its oil doesn't
	get too hot.  The engine doesn't overheat too, the fan rarely cuts
	in, even in the hot, dry, summer (remember that?).  Most kits that
	suffer overheating do so not because the engine bay is constricted,
	but because there is little air flow *out* of the engine bay.  A 
	friend cured his by cutting vents at the back of the side engine covers.
	The Marlin has a lot of side vents and plenty of frontal area onto the
	radiator.  

	Dave

John,
	have you checked what Caterham offer in the way of plumbed in systems?
I know they sell some plumbing & nozzles that "effectivly disperses halon in 
the confines of the 7's engine bay"



...art

	When I first put the car on the road I did the following:

	1. drive around the block, check and tighten everything.
	2. drive to the MOT, fail, fix loose wire, drive to MOT and
	pass.
	3.  go on a trip, come back, check all suspension bolts very
	thoroughly.  Tighten those that have mysteriously loosened.
	4.  increment trip length and do 3 until holidays.
	5.  go to the Lake District, drive around (including up Hard
	Knott Pass, 1 in 3 with snakes).
	6.  check everything again and then take it to a rolling road.

	It was about a year before I settled into my current routine.  Also,
	whenever I change anything (eg new exhaust) I carefully check that
	for a while.  I try not to change anything before a long trip.

	I suppose most kit owners are keener than most average car owners at
	maintaining their car, but a good kit should require no more work than
	production car.  For example, it should fall apart at the same rate as
	a production car if treated as badly.  It's hard to say if that's true
	for the Marlin, I'm still improving it and playing with it.  But it is
	a hobby as well as being transport...

	Dave

Re: .658

You could end up paying a lot more by going to Caterham - it's simply the nature
of the beast. A more cost effective approach would be to go to Merlin at Castle
Coombe, or buy a copy of CCC and ring around the advertisers.

A basic cable operated 5kg plumbed in system made by Lifeline or Erskine would
set you back about �70-80, and think of the fun you can have working out where
to put all the bits. If you go for the "dumpy" container, you should be able to 
mount it transversely on the floor in the passenger footwell, just forward of
the seat.

Dick

    Thanks Dick.I got a price of 120+ for a 2.5k system from a guy who
    advertised in the 7 owners club mag. �70-80 sounds better - I'll get a
    few more quotes.
    
    John

    Dick,I checked the prices quoted - for a 2.5k system,lifeline is
    �121,erskine is �76,both plus tax etc. - any idea why the price
    difference? is it quality?
    
    John.

John

I'd have said the same as Derek. The Erskine system is just as good as Lifeline,
so why pay the extra to support an expensive marketing programme and dealer's
margin.

If it fits and does the job, then go for the Erskine system.

Dick

ps. have now fitted rods and pistons in Xflow block. It's the camshaft tonight.

Tried to install pristine Piper BP285 camshaft in block last night - it wouldn't
fit!!!!!

Close examination showed that the rear camshaft journal was distorted, probably
from what looks like a sharp blow with a blunt heavy object on the rear journal
face. This must have happened before it was packed, as the packaging was 
undamaged and I haven't dropped it.

So it's back to Hanwell and RJD - yet again.

Consoled myself by grinding in the valve seats and fitting the valves in the 
head.

Ho hum......

Dick

	A general question here.  Does anyone know of an algorithm for 
	working out the correct tyre pressures given weight of car, drive
	line type, tyre size?

	With the Marlin, I find 24 all round a little hard.  It tramlines
	a little, but the turn in is fine.  23 at the front and 24 at the
	rear is ok, but a tad hard at the back.  23 at the back feels sloppy,
	but more comfortable.

	Dave

What's tramlining?

Re: tyre pressure
I suspect it's the same answer as for every other aspect of a kit car: try every
possible combination until you find the best one.

Scott

    
    Tramlining is the car's desire to follow irregularities in the road's
    surface (repairs, ruts, white lines etc). Its prevalent in sports cars
    shod with low profile tyres.
    
    As far as the tyre pressures go, it seems that the Marlin is very
    sensitive. I wouldn't have expected a 1 psi change to alter the car's
    feel from hard to sloppy.
    
    I think Scott's solution is reasonable - do experiment, trying
    to keep other parameters constant (tyre temp, and road conditions
    will affect the results), but don't go too far from your current
    settings. Remember that by altering the tyre pressures, you will
    affect the slip angles (and hence any tendency to under or oversteer).
    
    Have you asked other owners what they run?
    
    Bill

	Bill,
		I have asked other Marlin owners and between 22 and 25 is the
	usual answer.  Most are shod with the Vreiderstone (spelling?) tyres
	that I have.  These are a fairly high profile hard compound.  I'm 
	currently experimenting and have settled back to 24-24.  I have also
	been meaning to fit a rear anti-roll bar to see what effect that would
	have.  

	Dave

    I've got 13" 175/70 NCTs on my Healey Frogeye, with Spax adjustables at
    the rear. I've tried all sorts from 25psi downwards. I've settled on
    18psi all round as best so far, but I still try different combinations
    occasionally. It's well worth investing in an accurate and 'proper'
    tyre pressure gauge, and always using only that one. The car weighs
    650kg, incidentally.
    
    Laurie.

    
    I run the Marcos on 175/70 Avon Turbosteels (Original Equipment, but
    presumably not the original tyres!) which are set at 24 psi all round
    as listed in the 1969 Motor road test.
    
    The car is a little tail happy under power on a greasy road, but
    handling is about as neutral as you could want usually. Ride comfort on 
    the other hand is non-existent! The car has adjustable Spax shock
    absorbers front and rear, but I've not got round to playing with them
    yet.
    
    Mark

The new cam is in and timed (much to Derek's disgust as he missed it!), cylinder
head fitted, valve rockers assembled and installed,and valve clearances set. RJD
were amazed at the condition of the defective camshaft, but even more suprising
was the discovery of minor pits on the journals of two further camshafts that we
inspected. They were going to have words with Piper on Monday!

Most of the major assembly work is done now, and I've been collecting the odds 
and ends that will be needed to complete it, including making a plate to blank
off the fuel pump mounting. As soon as the new clutch has been
delivered, it will be time to get ready for the swap. In the meantime the 
Westfield has been keeping me busy with a defective alternator (broken lead
on the rectifier block), a fractured alternator stay, and a leak from the top
radiator hose jubilee clip (to be replaced with stainless this evening).

In the New Year I will be acquiring the oil cooler sandwich plate and pipework,
the electronic ignition, and maybe a new sump, and then we should be set to 
install the engine around the end of Jan. Then all I need to do is buy a new
set of tyres and fit a new roll bar, and we're ready for competition.

    Dick,
    
    "blanking off the fuel pump mounting"
    
    What sort of pump are you going to run,and why?
    
    I have used the mechanical standard pump,but I do have to pump the
    carbs to start if it has been standing for a long time.
    
    John.

The Westfield has a Facet electric pump, but the existing engine still has the
old mechanical pump bolted on the side. The only useful purpose this serves is
to cover the hole in the side of the sump. Rather than bolt a useless mechanical
pump on the side of the new engine, I've made a blanking plate to cover the
hole, made from that nice thick ally they use to blank off spaces in 19" 
instrument racks. Now I wonder where that came from?

Dick

ps. as Derek_not_Dick said, an electric pump gies better performance than a 
mechanical one.

    Another item for Santa's list - one electric fuel pump!
    

    Santa failed to deliver!
    Which one do I need? - they come with different pressures don't they?
    

    At last!! I've found the Kit Car note.....
    
    Has anyone else out there got a Davrian?? If so what engine are you 
    running in it? I am looking at various options at the moment but cannot
    make come to a conclusion...
    
    1. Imp engine and box. It will put ther car in the correct class in the
       Forwell Gp K races but Jack Knight "dog boxes" are like rocking
       horse ****
    2. 1600 Cross flow and Hewland MK9. Plenty of parts available but
       where to race it? also not much room in the middle for me(I'm 6'4")
    3. Renault 25 engine and box (or similar eg Espace etc). Smaller
       installation than above but same problems with championships to
       race in.
    
    Time is getting short for the start of next season! Has anyone
    got any ideas or even any of the above??
    
    Cheers,
    
    Simon.

    
    Do those cr***y looking Davrians in Group K REALLY have 5k engines?
    (This bloody workstation won't do composes!) It would seem as if the 
    car was worth about a 10th of the value of the engine in that case!
    
    You could pick up a Hartwell tuned Imp engine secondhand for a lot
    less than five grand (Check out Motoring News if you are interested).
    
    Mark

    
    Too true about them racing and not looking pretty.
    
    No-one could say that those Davrians aren't very effective, but
    I think race cars should at least look presentable.
    
    Mark

    And the fire extinguishers should work.......

    Hi all,
    
    one of my friends is looking at selling his kit car and would like to
    get some kind of evaluation done on it, so he knows how much doscha to
    charge for it ... Does anyone have any bright ideas as to where he could 
    get this done !!
    
    Thanks and regards
    
    Jon

    
    What make of kit is it?
    
    Most owner's clubs will have some facility for valuing a completed kit
    and  if one exists this has to be the best place to get an accurate
    value for a kit. Failing that, he could check the classifieds in the 
    kit car magazines, but the problem there is judging what condition his
    car is against those described (it's hard to be impartial about your
    own car).
    
    Mark

    Mark,
    
    as far as I know it is a Dutton Phaeton.. I think 1.3 litre with recon
    engine. So you think the best bet is to take it to Eagle cars (the New
    Dutton Company) ?
    
    I will let him know Thanks ! 
    
    Jon

    
    He could try the manufacturers, but I suspect the Owner's club would
    be a better place to try. As a rule Duttons aren't worth a lot, so I
    hope he isn't expecting a fortune.
    
    Mark

	I have seen megabucks in cash changing hands at kit-car shows, so if
	he does find out it's apporxamite worth, it may be worthwhile to
	take it to a kit-car show , and put a notice on the window.

	The reason that this is popular, is because you can see the car 
	alongside others, and so judge how well the kit is built.

	However, if the kit isn't too hot, maybe the classifieds in the kit mags
	would be better!.

	Heather

	

If you give me �50, I'll tow it away for you...

Dutton's aren't worth a lot, 'cos they have a poor reputation.  However, many
have been built to very high standards, and the Phaeton is the most popular
model, so if this is a good one it may fetch �2000-�3000.  Age is important too,
as early Dutton chassis weren't very good.  You could apparently lift a Dutton
at one corner, and the other three wheels would stay square on the ground...

Scott

�	You could apparently lift a Dutton
� at one corner, and the other three wheels would stay square on the ground...
    
    You can do this with Citroens as well - but I wouldn't buy one of those
    either... :-)
    
    I thought the whole idea of chassie design was to keep the wheels on
    the ground ;-)
    
    	Rik

    I must admit I will be surprised if he manages to get his expected
    amount for the car - (around 2500 pounds).
    
    Age = 6 years old
    Engine = 1.3 ford escort mark one donor vehicle
    Condition = Fairly Tatty with Orange respray.
    
    I wuld think more like 1500 tops myself.
    
    regards
    
    JoN

    There are a lot of Duttons for sale all the time.
    
    He'll be VERY lucky to get anywhere near 2000 pounds.
    
    Your figure sounds much better for a maximum, but it only
    needs one uninformed person and he's laughing all the way 
    to the bank!
    
    Mark

Hmmm, from your description �1500 sounds more realistic...

Scott

    	A question for drivers of Westfields, Caterham 7's and other cars
    of similar type. I am at the point of ordering some tyres for my 
    Westfield. Does anyone have any reccomendations on make and type of
    tyre for one of these, or any types not to use. The car will be live axle
    and I intend fitting 185/70 tyres on 13" wheels to try and save my
    back from the battering it would get with a lower profile. As I live in 
    Scotland I am going to need tyres that behave themselves on damp or wet 
    roads.(The condition they are in for all except two weeks in the year!) 
    
    	Westfield themselves supply Avon Turbospeed and Caterham use
    Goodyear NCT's as original equipment. Comments? 
    
    		Jeremy

    
    I've got similar Avons (Turbosteels?) on the live axled Marcos and they
    are very progressive and  fairly quiet, although they really aren't up
    to the standard of the cars grip in the dry. 
    
    They were original equipment though, so must have been state of the art
    then!.
    
    Presumably Turbospeeds are of a superior construction to give better
    ultimate dry weather grip.
    
    Mark

    I've got the recommended Goodyear NCTs on my live axle Caterham and
    I've not had any problems in road use - racing is something else!!
    
    Caterham are using a lower profile tyre on the new larger wheels,but I
    believe they are still the NCT.
    
    John

I've got some pretty awful 185/70 13 Goodyear GT70's which came with the 
Westfield 7SE when I bought it last year. These are a pretty hard compound and
will probably rot before they wear out! Roadholding is not brill, and in the wet
positively interesting.

I'm changing to Avon Turbospeed CR28 185/60 13 with the A30 compound next month,
in preparation for the insertion of another 30bhp and some sprint and hillcimb
activity this year. These are reputed to be demon on the 7 in the dry, and 
pretty d*mn good in the wet as well. The small change in profile doesn't make 
the car any more uncomfortable to drive (it's not too good to begin with), and 
tyre wear won't be excessive. They should be good for about 7k miles.

If you want to throw tyres at the car, Avon do a softer compound (A27) for the 
Turbospeed, but this is more for competition use.

Don't forget that changing from 70 to 60 section will cause your speedo to read 
about 10% faster than your true speed, so it will need recalibrating. Your ride
height will also be lowered slightly.

I'd go for a 60 section tyre, the Westfield is quite happy with them, and the
roadholding is much improved. And who ever bought a 7 to be comfortable in!

Dick

The model number for the 185/60 13 CR28 is 3413 and the price quoted by BMTR is
�52.40 + VAT, although you should be able to get them cheaper if you hunt 
around.

Dick

    I was just skimming this note (one never knows when a dream might come
    true 8'), and noticed the references to Westfield with a 7** model
    designation.  What is that?  A Seven derivative?  Here in New England,
    we have a Westfield (from the MA town of the same name) which is an 11
    derivative - or rather knockoff.  They purportedly have the original 11
    body molds, and primarily suggest a BMC A block, tranny, etc.  It is
    done in glass, with tube(?) frame, etc.
    
    Thanks...Gary

    	The Westfield is a Lotus/Caterham 7 sort of lookalike. Originally
    they where almost exact replica's, but after legal action from
    Caterham, who own the rights to that design they were altered. The 11
    was, I think, the first model that Westfield made, and was derived from
    the Lotus 11. The 7 models are offically called the SE and SEI. The I
    stands for independant rear suspension. They also do a stretched
    version of the SEI for six footers. Westfield don't use the word
    "Seven" at all, presumably to avoid upsetting Caterham again! Hope 
    that gives a clearer picture.
    
    		Jeremy

    
    I hate to disillusion you Gary, but the Westfield 11 is made by the 
    same company who make the Westfield 7.
    
    I think the Westfield name comes from the bend at Silverstone, although
    I stand to be corrected.
    
    Mark

>> Westfield 7

... no such car, or so Westfield are legally bound to say ;-)

>> Westfield 11

... Westfield's first car I believe, dropped in favour of the 7, sorry , SE.
    Production of the 11 recently resumed, although I doubt whether they have
    the original moulds.  They may have made their own moulds from an original
    shell, though.

Scott

    re .704
    
    Hmmmm.  No disillusionment, but I will have to go back and find the
    articles in question (which, of course, can be wrong).  There IS a 
    town named Westfield in MA, USA.  AND there is a Westfield dealer or
    distributor or manufacturer there.  I had recalled them being
    manufacturers, but senility may have struck again.  I hate it when that
    happens 8')
    
    Thanks...Gary
    
    P.S. Are the 11s still available?  Pricing?

To the best of my knowledge Westfield (UK) no longer supply kits for the 11, 
although if you had one and wanted some bits, they would probably oblige. Their
production is concentrated on the SE, SEi and the Widebodied SEi (3" longer and
wider in the cockpit, although when I called in to the factory two weeks ago
there was a very strange looking SE with side fairings and a rear wing lurking
in the far corner of the workshop.

I never did get an explanation of what it was, although it also sported a
non-approved roll bar, so perhaps it's a "designers play thing".

Westfield are also very busy at the moment supplying completed cars (in BRG with
yellow nose cones) to the Japanese. A spin off from this is that they can now 
offer in the UK an "almost complete" kit. It's only lacking essential fluids,
but because it still requires a minimum of 4 hours to complete, it can still be
classed as a kit, although all the parts are new and assembled. This means that
you don't have to pay UK Car Tax.

Dick

    
    Re .707
    
    Presumably you can pay car tax and get a coveted H plate?
    
    Mark 

If you want to donate money to the Government.......

Yes

    re .709
    
    Certainly an H-Plate will cost you more and if you are intending to
    keep the car a long time and/or are not worried about a residual value
    and/or have a very sought after car (eg a Caterham 7) then a Q plate
    will perhaps be worth the saving, but in the long term an H-plate would
    be a good selling point as it 'proves' that the car is all-new and
    gives confidence to a buyer in the condition of the car.
    
    When I bought my 1969 Marcos I went to see a car described as a 1984
    car for about the same price. It had a Q-plate and for the life of me
    I can't understand what they thought was 1984 about it! The condition
    was terrible with torn interior trim and tatty paintwork.
    
    If I was buying another kitcar, I'd be happier buying one with a 
    'real' plate than a Q. In fact, I may well not even go to see a Q plate
    car, due to the feeling of uncertainty over what I might find.
    
    Mark

    
    I think that it would not be worth spending the money to get an 'H'
    plate - particularly on a 'real' kit car. Maybe a 'Q' plate on a
    'done-up' Cortina might put people off, but anyone buying a
    non-standard car would be foolish to just look at the registration to
    decide on when/how well/source of bits etc that the car was put
    together with. How many cars are running round with bits from a scrappy
    which may be older than the car itself? 
                                                   
    The old Maestro we had was imported, but had a 'D' plate, but no
    guarantee of age etc, and my Landy is on an 'X' plate, but I know when
    it was built, and no-one would pay extra for it just because it wasn't
    a 'Q' - because it is so obviously a 'one-off'. 

    It truly is hell getting old.  Especially when you had an excellent
    memory, and it starts to go.  Now, what was I talking about... 8')
    
    I have looked at three articles about the Westfield.  None of them have
    a clue as to why I thought the car was manufactured in Westfield, MA,
    USA!  Two of them point out the Midlands factory location, and the
    fact that there is/was a distributor in Florida somewhere.
    
    Sorry for the jabbering. I still think it's a great idea for a kit car.
    I will now return to my gruel...yum, yum.
    
    Cheers...Gary

	Actually, I've always liked the Q plate and it wouldn't put me off
	going for a car with one.  It says "look, I built this!" and gets you
	out of that terrible snob thing of driving around in a car that is,
	effectively, labelled "look I'm only n years old".

	Mind you, the replica makers hate the Q plates...

	Would it affect the price of two otherwise equivalent Westfields or
	Caterhams?

	Dave

    	Thankyou everyone for the advice. I reckon I'll go for the Avon
    Turbospeed CR28's. I spoke to Westfield concerning the profile to use.
    They reccomended 70 for a live axle car, as there is a risk of higher
    wear on the tyre edges with a 60 profile. Something to do with the
    geometry of the axle putting the weight on the edge of the tread during
    cornering. This seemed to make sense, so I'll be getting 185/70 x 13".
    
    	For competition I'd imagine the better cornering of the lower
    profile would outweigh the increased wear, but this is going to be a
    road car so...
    
    		Jeremy

	Well, Feb's WHICH KIT has a long article on Pastiche's Gladiator.

	For those of you who don't know - it's the new name for the NG TC V8.

	Says how wonderful it is, - I already knew that! , it does 0-60 in 
	under 4.5 (I can't  change gear quickly enough to do this!) - BUT, the 
	exhaust is alongside the car - not underneath like mine - it could 
	cause mega burns, just think of those stockings being burnt to my 
	leg - ouch!

	Also, I hear the liquidators are being called in - can anyone confirm?

	(where will I get spare bodies when people run up the back?).


	Heather

	Oh yes, it said they would cost about �13,000 to buy a current one, and
	about �14,500 to build.

	It said they were "average" on the difficulty ratings for building.


	DON'T BELIEVE IT.


	And if anyone is thinking of doing one - come and look under my bonnet 
	first, you may change your mind.


	Heather

Side exhausts: these must by law be covered so that you can't accidentally
touch the hot bits.

Liquidators: for NG or Pastiche?

Scott

    re -1 
    
    They may have to be covered...  But they still burn you!  (I personally
    know four people who have been burnt by covered side pipes on two
    different cars).
    
    So watch out when you're getting out!  Rob

	All kit reports tend to under estimate the skill and time required to
	build a given kit.  I took 3 times the time given by Marlin to build
	my Berlinetta not counting playing with it since putting it on the
	road.  (1000 hours versus 300-350).  Maybe I'm just slow, Gill reckons
	that I spent 1/3rd of my time making the car, 1/3rd of my time looking
	for tools and 1/3rd of my time looking at the car...

	Dave

	PS I'd be very surprised if Pastiche has gone bust...

    
    >>	road.  (1000 hours versus 300-350).  Maybe I'm just slow, Gill reckons
	that I spent 1/3rd of my time making the car, 1/3rd of my time looking
   >>	for tools and 1/3rd of my time looking at the car...

        The time spent building is in line with the estimate then.... :-)
    
    
    
    
    

	I suppose that you could be right, but why do screwdrivers mysteriously
	move?  There you are lying under the car, you put down the screwdriver
	with your right hand, just by your right knee.  You need it again and
	it's moved to the other side of the car by your head?

	It also didn't help that I built the car, dismantled it and had it
	sprayed before rebuilding it to have it MOT'd before slightly
	dismantling it to have the spray fully finished before completing
	it.

	Dave

>	All kit reports tend to under estimate the skill and time required to
>	build a given kit.  I took 3 times the time given by Marlin to build
>	my Berlinetta not counting playing with it since putting it on the
>	road.  (1000 hours versus 300-350).  Maybe I'm just slow, Gill reckons
>	that I spent 1/3rd of my time making the car, 1/3rd of my time looking
>	for tools and 1/3rd of my time looking at the car...

	Yup well, the engine had to be re-designed, and a special guy came and 
	did the work (I can't remember who, Alan would).
	Alan himself is a mechanical engineer, and he had a few problems with
	some bits - like I said, come an look under my bonnet if you're even 
	thinking of it!.

	3 times is probably about OK, but the skill level - average???????

>	PS I'd be very surprised if Pastiche has gone bust...

	Yup, I did mean Pastiche, and not NG (He was taken over by Pastiche a 
	while ago).

	Rumour has it, the guy who owns Pastiche, his wife and the chief
	mechanic are now a couple, and he needs a divorce settlement.

	However, as I said, this is rumour..............


	Does anyone know how I'd get spare body-bits if they did go bust, and 
	I subsequently had an accident?

	Heather

    > Rumour has it, the guy who owns Pastiche, his wife and the chief
    > mechanic are now a couple, and he needs a divorce settlement.
    
    Is an example of the legendary British understatement? Over here, we
    would call that at least a trio 8')
    
    Cheers...Gary        

Well, I think your body's fine Heather, but if you mean the NG... ;-)

You could buy the moulds from Pastiche yourself (expensive!), or keep track of
who does buy them.  Maybe someone will take over production of the kits (� la
Brightwheel saga).

Best advice is don't break the car in the first place...

Scott

>Best advice is don't break the car in the first place...

	Ah well you see, hubby drives it sometimes..............


		Heather

� Q:        -< How can you be rear-ended in a car with 0-60 in 4.5 secs >-
    
    
    A:	When the VW beetle based 959 behind you at the lights turns out to
    	be the real thing ;-)

�         -< How can you be rear-ended in a car with 0-60 in 4.5 secs >-

�         -< How can you be rear-ended in a car with 0-60 in 4.5 secs >-
    
    By performing this feat whilst negotiating a tight, slippery bend -
    the result being an about-face in the car's attitude, but not in
    the direction of travel ?

    re -1 etc
    
    By having a twit behind you who tries to catch up, without thinking
    about the fact that you have breaked to go round a 90� bend!

    Re .729,
    
    I had a twat in an RS turdo do that to me once
    
    Picture this.......A windy backroad in Scotland me travelling at a
    reasonable rate of knots with an RS turdo on my butt...........
    
    I slow down for a hairpin bend.......
    
    Twat pulls out and attempts to overtake
    
    Twat realises what a twat he is being and slams on the brakes.......
    
    Skids along the road head on into a dry stane dyke straight out the
    other side in lands in the middle of the field.     
    
    I stopped and went back to see if he is o.k. Luckily for him he was but
    there was one less Turdo on the road!!!
    
    After i had checked i buggered off and left him to walk the 4 miles to 
    the next village!!

    re. 728
    
    I did this *exactly* and hit the rear of a Transit van parked on the
    opposite side of the road.
    
    The insurance inspector was very amused (in a tolerant sort of way)
     
    "I see, rear-end damage. Did you get the details of the vehicle that
    hit you ?"
    "Well yes, but I hit him"
    "So he has front-end damage ?"
    "No, I hit his rear bumper, and broke his light cluster"
    "Why were you reversing so fast"
    "I wasn't, the car was going forwards - but facing the wrong way"
    "I see..."said he blind man who couldn't see at all.
    
    AmS

>    re -1 etc
>    
>    By having a twit behind you who tries to catch up, without thinking
>    about the fact that you have breaked to go round a 90� bend!


	Well, 99% true, we were half-way through the right-hand turn.


	............and he hit us on the offside rear!!!!!!!!!!!


	Heather

    
      I thought a quick update on the funny green car may interest a few of
    you as well as a reguest to borrow a brake pipe flaring tool.
    
      I sent the chassis of to a company called Metalising who grit blasted it,
    zinc sprayed it then etch primed it for �130. Its now had a couple of
    coats of silver paint to cover up the bright green primer.
    
      In addition I had the exhaust manifold blasted and aluminium powder
    coated. This gives a blue finish which withstands the heat and doesn't
    discolour. 
    
      I've run the brake lines down the inside of the centre rails which
    includes going through the gearbox crossmember.
    
      The front suspension is partly in place. I'm waiting for the lower
    wishbones to come back with the new trunions I had to have made.
    
      I've got an overdrive Spitfire gearbox into which I've got to try and
    fit the GT6 gear set to get the closer ratios.
    
      Another member of the owners club photocopied all the BL Special
    Tuning build sheets for the 1100 Triumph engine. I'm saving up to have
    it built.
    
      I had a new loom made the last time I rebuilt it so the electrics
    should be OK. This is partially in.
    
      Once its a rolling chassis I'll get the rollbar installed. I'm
    working on the priciple that its easier to fit the cage whilst you can
    still lift the rear bodywork on and off.
    
      Does anyone have a brake pipe flaring tool they'd be willing to lend
    me over a weekend ? I need to flare 3/16" and 1/4" pipes. I work in Queens 
    House and live in Basingstoke.
    
      As for the fibreglass course, the offer still stands if we can get a
    total of 12 people. 
    
      Chris.
     

With the temperatures plummeting to -10C and 2" of snow forecast, it's obviously
the time to get into the garage and rip the old x-flow out of the Westfield,
replacing it with newly built 1700 version! I'll be starting this evening by
ripping out all the ancilliaries, ready for the arrival of the engine crane
tomorrow morning.

Then it's engine out in the morning, and new one installed in the afternoon.
With a bit of luck, and if I can keep the frostbite at bay, I should have the 
new engine fired up and running on Friday.

Dick

    
    Place hand on valve on Propane cylinder. Grip handle. Turn. remove
    hand, replace hand on valve on heater, twist control. Press piezo
    igniter button/remove match from box, strike apply to gas*. Retreat to
    kitchen to drink cup of coffee. return to garage this time not wearing
    just about everything in your wardrobe but a pair of Toetectors, shorts
    and Hawaiian shirt. Exchange engines in relative comfort.....
    
    There, wasn't that easy!
    
    ;^)

    Haven't you realized yet that all jobs on cars (of any sort) take at
    least twice as long as expected and often longer - Best of luck!
    
    Jeff

    Wrong. They don't take twice as long. Three times as long AND twice as
    much...........8^(
    
    Dick_who_speaks_from_bitter_experience_and_never_seems_to_learn_the_lesson

...for a job that "should" be finished in 1.

Only �100!  Wish my motoring mistakes were that cheap!

Scott

PS Dick - have you allowed time for extracting the bolt you're bound to drop
in one of the exhaust ports ;-)

>>
        <<< Note 366.739 by VANTEN::MITCHELLD "............<42`-`o>" >>>
            -< Why do you find out a better way to do things when >-

>>You just spent a �100 doing it the wrong way.... 

    
    !!!!!!!!!!!WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!     You never told me! :-)
    
    Elaine

    Poorly planned tasks take 3 times as long as planned.
    
    
    Well planned ones only take twice as long.
    
    	-Barry-
    

    Westfield engine swap went OK without any major probs, but I couldn't
    get it to start. Finally fired it up at 7.00pm this evening, and there
    appears to be nothing wrong that some running in and a rolling road
    won't cure.
    
    Off to clean up now - will enter a full report when I'm back in the
    office on Monday.
    
    Dick
    
    ps. I'm open to offers for a 1600 xflow, in working order but ideal for
    rebuilding - buyer collects.

Firstly, if you're going to do an engine swap, pick a time when the temperature
stays below freezing point for days on end, and snowfalls make the roads
impassable. These two factors make you work faster to keep warm, and ensure
that you don't pop out to buy something unless it's absolutely essential!

Started on Wednesday evening by firing up the engine to warm the oil so that
it would drain in less than 4 hours, and turning the car round so that it was
pointing into the garage. This would make it easier to work on (huh!), as I
have a 30ft long garage and the work bench is at the back end. Drained the oil,
lit the heaters in the garage and retired until the temparture had risen to a
point where the spanners didn't freeze to my fingers. Then it was on with the
overalls and away we went.

Removed the nosecone, Drained the antifreeze (keep), disconnected the battery,
removed the silencer and manifold and starter motor, and took off the
alternator to give more clearance between the engine and the chassis rails.
First problem - the bottom front mounting flange on the alternator had sheared.
Solution was a TIG welder or a new alternator. Added alternator to tomorrow's
shopping list.

Then it was over to the other side of the engine to disconnect throttle and
choke cables, and remove manifold and carbs complete. Lastly, removed breather
pipes, hoses, clutch cable, and numerous electrical cables, and we were ready
for the lift.

Engine crane was delivered at 8.30am Thursday morning (Hire Corp), and
fortunately as it turned out, it was the type that dismantles into a number of
component parts. Assembled crane in front of car and fashioned a rope sling
round the engine. Chocked the bellhousing, removed the engine/gearbox bolts and
the engine mounts, and out she came - no trouble. Lowered engine to the floor
in front of the car and rolled it on to its side to remove the sump and pickup
tube. At this point remaining coolant pours out of the water pump along with
some oil that was still in the crankcase and oil galleries. Build dam from old
rags to mop up gooey mess on garage floor. Fit pickup tube, sump, and rocker
cover to new engine that is reposing on Workmate, and fit new clutch release
bearing - it doesn't! Hole is too small to ft over gearbox input shaft. Take a
break here and dash off to Anchor to change bearing. They have the correct
part, mine is a 1600GT gearbox, but they also have a new computer system that
doesn't want to accept the old bearing back into stock for a refund. Fixed it
eventually, calling in for an exchange alternator on the way home.

Back in the garage again, fit release bearing OK, but dipstick adaptor tube
wont. Hasty mods with electric drill and hammer and in she goes. We're now
ready for the new engine. 

Problem - new engine is in the wrong place to be picked up by the crane, and is
too heavy to move with one pair of hands. Solution - drag old engine to side of
garage, dismantle crane, move crane components behind new engine on Workmate,
re-assemble crane, lift engine off Workmate, remove Workmate, and push crane
and engine back to the car - brill!

The new engine went in with only the usual pain of trying to get the splines on
the input shaft in line with the splines on the clutch friction plate, then it
was tighten the bolts and fit new engine mounts. Aaargh - the mounts are too
small!! Discovered that the original builder had used the wrong MkI Cortina
mounts (the long ones), and positioned the supports accordingly. The correct
ones are the short variety, so the new mounts left the engine floating in mid
air! Had to go back to the old mounts, and added a new set of these to the
shopping list.

With the engine back in place, the crane was dismantled and prepared for
collection, and then it was a matter of replacing the ancilliaries. I had
decided to leave the oil pump off until the engine was installed to avoid any
risk of damage; this was a mistake as there is not enough room between the 
bottom chassis rail and the engine. So it was loosen the engine mounts and 
jack up the engine to get the extra � inch clearance. On went the starter motor,
alternator, waterpump pulley and fanbelt, exhaust manifold and silencer, water
hoses, water temp sender, and clutch cable. That was enough for the day.

On Friday I fitted the electronic ignition (Lumenition) and timed the
distributor - wrongly as it turned out! Fitted new plugs and plug leads, the
inlet manifold and all the remaining cables, wires, etc. Filled the cooling
system with the saved antifreeze, and put 4l of Duckhams in the sump. That's
the lot.

With the plugs out she turned over on the starter, and full oil pressure came
up in 3-4 secs. Plugs back in, prime the Webers, and start her up - she won't
turn!!!!!! The new engine is so tight, its so cold, and the compression is so
high that the starter stalls. Spend the rest of the day alternately trying to
start the motor and recharging the battery. About 4.00pm decide to check
ignition system as I can't even get one cylinder to fire. Somehow, in spite of
all the checks on assembly, I'd managed to time the ignition 180 degrees out.
Twit!

Reset the timing, and try again. Just as the battery dies for the nth time, I
get one cylinder to fire, but the rest don't pick up. As it's getting late now,
we'll resume the attack on the morrow.

Saturday is spent coaxing the engine to life, and recharging the battery after
each failed attempt. Eventually, around 6.00pm I decide to bake the plugs in
the oven for 30mins at 150C as a last try. Geronimo!!!! she fires up. Within
seconds the garage is full of paint and exhaust fumes, but everything looks and
sounds OK. I run her for 20mins at 2k rpm to bed in the cam lobes and get
everything up to normal working temperatures. The slow running needs resetting
but apart from that, there's nothing that running in and a rolling road can't
cure.

I know that I wouldn't have had half the fun if the weather had been warmer!

Dick

 Seems like it is th etime to be xflow building. I have got most of the way to
finishing off my 1300 example, just need to go and get the remaining circlips 
for the little ends as they were not with the new pistons !!! Ah well, at least
nos 1 & 2 are installed, as is the cam, followers, crank and other such things,
obviously the ancilliaries will be put on when it goes back in. Now, that is 
the part that could be fun, as I will have to remove the old engine, remembering
to undo all bolts, including the little 3/8" one on the o/s of the engine, which
I have been known to forget in the past(!!!!), without yet knowing if we can get
hold of a hoist !!! Last time was fun as we only had a weekend to swap engines 
in, and no way of getting a hoist, so there were four people two cars, two 
engines a limited amout of rope and a long peice of thick wood, never again, I 
could hardly drive the next day as my shoulder was in agony, but I did manage
it by waiting a bit.

		 Alan
		~~~~~~

    Congratulations Dick.
    
    It was winter two years ago that I built mine, but not REAL winter.
    'aint it great when it at last fires up !!!!!!!!!!
    
    John.

    
    
    Just a quick question....is 45 pound per shock ex VAT expensive ?
    
    My supplier wants to charge me this for the shocks for the cobra..I'm
    begining to wonder if I can get something to do the job at a lower
    price...
    
    Thanks
    
    Tom

    That depends...
                                           
    What type are they (adjustable damping/preload or not)?
    What do ther suppliers charge for them?
    
    Rob

    
    
    All i know at present is that he has to import the shocks from abroad,
    they are 24 position adjustable shocks (if that means anything to you).
    He's being a bit coy about his supplier, thought I haven't asked him
    outright if I can buy them direct..
    
    While I'm on....anyone know where that note was about wiring looms for
    kit cars..wasn't there some one offering to build looms for Cobra's
    for 100 quid....??
    
    

    
    
    While I'm talking..again..I need the following:
    
    Marina/Ital
    
    Servo Unit
    Master Cylinder
    
    
    Rover SD1
    
    Fuel Pump
    
    Anyone help ???
    
    Save me getting dirty at the scrappie..
    
    Tom

    Probably a silly question , For the shocks have You looked at someone	
    like Demon Tweeks. They stock a large number on struts, springs ,
    dampers and the like for all sorts of vehicle. They tend to charge but
    will help is asked.
    
    
    	Garry

    Hi, Tom, I'm back in circulation again. If you are interested the
    latest copy of the Granada Owners Club Gazette had (I think) standard
    Boge shocks on offer for about �20. I'll did the details out and if I'm
    right mail them to you, If wrong I'll do a bit of 'umble pie
    munching........ My local parts place wants about �25 a piece as does
    the local Ford dealer. If you want different characteristics or
    adjustables, you're gonna pay more........

    
    re .747
    
     I drove up to SPAX in Bicester and told them what I wanted and they
    made up four shox for me. Mine had adjustable damping rate and spring
    pans.
     
     They also gave me an excellent guide on how to work out spring rates
    required.
    
     Unfortunately this was five years ago so my prices will appear more
    than reasonable !
    
     As an aside, I invested in a brake pipe flaring tool and will start
    fitting all the new ends. I have bought all the nults, bolts,fittings 
    etc from Namric and have no hesitation in recommending them.
    
     Chris
     
    

    
    
    Do you have the address and phonenumber for Namric ??
    
    How much were the bits (I already have the flare tool.)
    
    Tom
    

    Automec also do bits and pieces for making up brake pipes. They also do
    "kits" ie collection of all the bits you need to do specific cars.
    Individual nuts are about 50p ea, male ends about 75p, tees anout �2
    and 4 ways about �3.50. Copper pipe is about �8-9 for a 25m roll.
    
    I'll try to mail you the copy of an ad next week, but they advertise
    in Practical Classics.... and elsewhere, no doubt.

    
    
    The shocks and springs turned up..the shocks are AVO...anyone have any
    horror stories about these ???..any good points ?
    
    
    BTW...
    
    Is Crank Shaft end float measured as a movement of the crank within the
    main bearing shells..i.e. a movement of the crank relative to the crank
    case ? (and the same for big ends only relative to the crank ?)
    
    Tom

    
    Hi Tom,
    
     Yup, I'd agree with your thoughts on endfloat. I've been trying to fit
    the thrust washers into the Spitfire engine I've got, both on the end of
    the crank instead of one either side of the rear main bearing ! 
    
    re a few back Namric are on 0273 779864
    
        Chris.

    
    Does anyone know how easy it is to replace an ignition switch (the key
    bit), as I would rather like a more secure iginiton switch on the
    Marcos than it currently has.
    
    FYI, the bit where the key goes is not mounted on the steering column
    but on the dashboard, so I don't have to worry about it fitting the
    steering lock.
    
    I'd guess that any 12v negative earth switch would fit, but am I right?
    
    Mark

    Does the Marcus have a seperate starter button ? 
    
    Easiest way to make this set-up more secure is to wire in a discreet
    dead-switch, the theory being that it would deter would-be thieves if
    they can't immediately start (or attempt to start) the car.
    
    T.

�    Easiest way to make this set-up more secure is to wire in a discreet
�    dead-switch, the theory being that it would deter would-be thieves if
    
    I would think it quite likely that 'would-be thieves' would try to
    hot-wire the car rather than try the ignition anway.
    
    Here's hoping they do neither.
    
    J.R.

    sorry...back to end float...
    
    
    problem is, I can't get any (at least not measurable), no matter how
    loose the bearing are the crank will not shift a thou in any lateral
    direction..even though it rotates quite freely...am I being
    silly..should I just assemble it and see what happens....
    
    please advise
    
    
    no one ever heard of AVO shocks ????
    
    Tom
    
    

    Tom, remind us again where you are trying to measure this clearance. If
    it's at one of the inner main bearing caps (I forget how many bearings
    on the Rover V8 I am surprised that you can't get a 1 or a 2 thou
    feeler guage in between the cap shell and the main casting web. How
    much does the manual say there should be? 
    
    I thought AVO made multimeters...........

    
    The Rover has 5 main bearing caps. Only cap number 3 is a thrust
    bearing (has a flanged upper and lower edge)..all the others are normal
    bearings.
    
    the manual suggests an end float of between 10 and 15 thou !...I'm
    trying to measure the end float between one of the crank webbs and the
    main thrust washer...I can get the feeler guage in ..but should the
    crank move laterally in the bearings..i.e. allow me to measure the end
    float at one position and absorb all the end float when moved inthe
    bearings (slip forwards and backwards in the main shells basically)...
    
    
    Any ideas ???

    I may be wrong,Tom, but if you can get 15 thou of feeler guages into
    the gap between the main and the adjacent conrod bearing with the side
    thrust face, haven't you got the end float that you need?

    
    
    maybe..but it's a static measurement..surely the crank should move 15
    thou....??
    
    
    confused
    
    

    Aren't we talking about the float of the crankshaft? In which case, if
    you can get the feelers in the gap, yer as yer end float.....

    
    
    Well it's assembled now and the crank rotates freely...the big ends
    however do move on the crankpins..this is what I expected of the main
    bearings....
     
    
    8-{...who knows...
    
    I'll let you know if it explodes....
    
    

    Ok all you troops that have been messing around with Cortina/Granada
    front suspender assemblies, I have a question for you.
    
    I spent a most frustrating week-end trying to get the mounting bushes
    into either the mounting rings on the ends of the anti-roll bar or the
    mounting bracket that bolts to the lower suspension arm. 
    
    I tried lubricating it with fairy liquid.
    
    I tried pulling it through with a Void bush kit.
    
    I tried warming it in hot water to make the rubber softer.
    
    I tried every trick I know and I still haven't got any of them in the
    right places.
    
    Short of taking the offending bits to a Ford dealer and paying
    (heresy!) them to do it for me.... anybody got any ideas?

	I'd love to help, but I don't have a front anti-roll bar, just no
	roll at the front.  In other words, I've only ever dismantled that
	bit.  I had a hell of a job getting the bump stops on the back until
	someone told me to dip them in petrol first - it softens them up.
	They become hard again later.  However, since the front anti-roll bar
	has to take a pounding (unlike the bump stops, hopefully), this 
	doesn't sound like a good plan...

	Dave

    When I changed the anti-roll bar bushes on a Capri I was able to press
    them in with a bench vice, once I'd taken the lower suspension arm off.
    
    As an alternative you could try doing the same with a large G-clamp,
    with a plate behind the lower-arm and another over the rubber bush the
    clamp down on.
    
    Loads of detergent too.
    
    AmS
     
    (As I had a ball-joint splitter is was easier in the long run to
    dismantle the lower suspension arm and do the job on the bench than
    struggle with everything in-situ.)
    

The 'tina anti-roll bar bushes don't get squeezed through or into anything.

There is a long bolt, onto which you thread a number of parts in order,
something like:

Top washer, bush 1, washer, anti-roll-bar-end-eye, washer, bush 2, washer,
spacer column, washer, bush 3, washer, hole-in-tie-bar, washer, bush 4, washer,
large nut.

There may not be as many washers as that, I can't remember.  You then just
tighten the nut up, squeezing the bushes against the eyes in the arb and the
tie bar.

Well that's how it worked on the 'tina arb I had...

The bushes (all four) are cylindrical, with a hole in the middle to put the
bolt through, and one side rounded to suit the eye in the arb/tie-bar.

    Thanks for all the info. The bushes that I replaced in the upper and
    lower arms (this is a Mk1 Granada that I'm dealing with) were rubber
    and had steel sleeves down the middle. The lower fitted OK with just
    detergent for lubricant and a selection of bits of tubing of various
    diameters and some 10mm studding/nuts/washers. Cheaper than a void bush
    remover, too. The Upper were squeezed in via the use of a large bench
    vice and some tubing as they also had a metal flanged tube that was
    pressed into holes in the upper arm.
    
    These bushes are different in that they look like rubber cylinders
    with a waisted portion. They fit onto a small bracket that is bolted
    onto the lower arm on top of the anti-sway bar and also to the anti-
    roll bar. The bracket and the bar have loops forged into the ends. A
    long bolt passes through these bushes with a washer either side of the
    bush and a spacer tube in between the two bushes to keep them far enough
    apart to allow the tie rod to reach the stubaxle casting steering arm.
    It's getting these rubber bushes (they are a hard, black rubber)
    through these forged loops that's the problem. 
    
    Re -1 (I think)
    
    The anti sway bar (goes between the lower arm and the front extension
    to the cradle) has two rubber blocks on each side if the cradle member
    that you describe. The original ones were cemented to flat metal plates
    that were rivetted to the cradle to keep them in position. Ford specify
    the plain unplated rubbers as the correct replacement (ie, they don't
    make the old type any more), so I cut out new plates the same shape as
    the old and superglued the rubbers to them before rivetting them to the
    cradle. By the time the adjustment nuts are home tight, they won't be
    moving.........

    
     The Fairthorpe has very tightly wound coil springs that I need to
    compress to fit the replacement shock absorbers to. I'm having great
    difficulty geting hold of either a suitable spring compressor or
    somebody willing to do the job for me. 
    
     All the compressors I've seen are too large to fit between the gaps.
    The local Lotus dealer couldn't help. The springs are too big for any
    bike dealer I've tried. Does anybody have any ideas ? 
    
     The latest suggestion is the Rolls Royce Dealer in Slough !!!!
    
            Chris. 

    
    
    Dick...re: the bushes..I know what your on about..and I know the
    problems your experiencing, I replaced all the bushes onthe grannie
    front suspension...as you know.
    
    I did all the bush insertion out of the car, I also took all the
    components to pieces to do it. I managed to get hold of a 6 inch
    engineers vice with a deep throat (no jokes please) (14inches). I
    inserted the bushes you mention in the following manner:
    
    find a piece of tube that is the same width (or a few mill. larger) than
    the bush, and about 1 inch longer. Put the bush in the tube after
    oiling the inside. Place a washer(s) the same size as the tube, on top 
    of the bush. Select a spark plug socket or similar deep socket as near
    to the diameter of the tube as possible. Support the roll bar (or
    bracket) in the vice with wooden blocks etc. I used two sockets to
    provide rear clearance (one on either side of the hole). Turn the vice
    and the bush slips in....ha ha ha ...no actually it took me at LEAST
    three attempts to get the bushes in..but it was the only method that
    worked, don't get frustrated when the whols assembly slips just as are
    about to apply the pressure...persevere..they do actually go in. Also i
    used the replacement bushes from Ford for the sway bar front
    mountings..they are very rigid when compressed but I'll let you know
    how they perform once I'm driving the car (199something at the rate I'm
    going !!)
    
    While I'm on:
    
    I need to use 3 inch bolts to mount my shock absorbers on the car. the
    bolts have to pass through the mounting bracket, through the tube on
    the shocks and finally through the other side og the mounting bracket
    (i.e. horizintally through the shock). I have been advised that i need
    high tensile strength bolts for this job..and that they should be a
    very tight fit to minimise vibration and movement (makes sense)..who
    can confirm that high tensile is essential..
    
    I have some stainless steel M10 bolts with the following on the head:
    
    K18-8  AS-70
    
    Are these suitable ??.. (strength wise) can I extend the thread with 
    a normal die if the shank is too long ??
    
    Many thanks in advance
    
    Tom                 

    Sounds like you used a variation on one of my methods, Tom. My front
    cradle is also off the car (pics will be taken when all is finished....
    I have the "befores", all I need now are the "afters" for a complete
    set). I was thinking of compressing one part of the rubber bush with a
    jubilee clip to make it sort of squirt into the loop on either the
    bracket or the anti-roll bar as it was pushed down the tube with the
    bolt. I like your suggestion of using the socket to drift the bush down
    the tube as perhaps the draw-bolt is stopping the bush compressing
    enough to fit into the loop.
    
    Back to the workshop tonight.....
    
    I managed to reclaim the bolts from the cradles that I stripped down
    but bought new nylocs for them.
    
    I don't think that there's any advantage in going for high tensile
    bolts there as they aren't under too much tensile stress. I think that
    the torque figure for that bolt is only about 35 ftlbs and with the
    nyloc nut that shouldn't come loose. You only need thread for the bit
    going through the nut, best keep the bit that passes through the top
    mounting tube on the top of the shock plain. All the stress is taken by
    the hoile in the top extension of the cradle, so I made sure that there
    wasn't any slop in the fit of the bolt through those holes. 
    
    
    If you want to recut a thread on the bolts use a decent die, plenty of
    cutting lubricant and make sure that you clear the chips frequently.
    It'll be hard work and you'll find it easier going if you do it in more
    than one pass, i.e. set the die to cut a greater diameter than the
    nominal thread diameter, run that down, then close the die up for a
    second pass.

    
    
    Sounds sensible...I wasn't aware that die's could be set wider than
    nominal..if you know what I mean..I always thought they were fixed
    diameter and therefore guaranteed to do what they claim ...
    
    If the bolt is slightly sticky would you advise reaming the hole ?..
    
    tom

    Small dies (below about 2mm or 2 BA) tend to be what's called 'Button"
    dies abd they aren't usually adjustable. Most dies of the size we deal
    with have a slit in between two of the webs: die holders take three
    screws, two with rounded ends to keep the die in place and one with a
    point which can be used to adjust the opening. careful use of the two
    fixing screws (to close the gap against the adjuster) or the adjuster
    (to open the gap against the fastening screws) allows a small amount of
    movement. It doesn't take much to make a thread a sloppy fit.
    
    Don't worry about reaming, just run a drill of the right size through.
    
    Reamers come VERY expensive........
    
    P.S. if you want a source of cheap drills, reamers, taps, dies etc drop
    me mail.

    
    Another silly question for the panel....
    
    I was re-assembling the rover the other night at about midnight when I
    got to the bit about setting the timing if the engine has been
    disturbed (which mine has)..the book says...rotate crank 'till number
    one is on TDC. Install cam and cam wheel but no chain..rotate cam wheel
    until timing mark on wheel (small hole in one spoke) is at 6 O'clock
    (assuming engine in normal position).
    
    Then..romove cam wheel without disturbing cam, align timing marks on
    cam wheel and crank timing wheel (marks should be in line with cam at 6
    o'clock and crank mark at 12 o'clock). install timing chain and offer
    wheels up to the shafts...
    
    now there are keys on both the cam and crank (only one keyway per
    shaft), when I have done as above the keyways don't line up with the
    slots inthe chain..so it is impossible to install the timing gear..I
    can rotate either the CAm or Crank through 35 degree to get the marks
    to line up but this doesn't strike me as the right thing to do...
    
    it has occured to me that maybe the book was wrong and number one
    cylinder is the front right not the front left (in fact with the front
    left at TDC it all seems to fit !!!)...so in summary should I assume
    the leading piston on the right bank is number one and work from
    there..or am I doing something slightly stupid ???
    
    any comments most welcome...
    
    tom
    
    

    
    
    sorry..just to clarify..with the FRONT RIGHT piston (looking from the
    rad) at TDC the keyways line up...          

Tom, remember that the front right cylinder looking from the rad is actually
the front left cylinder if you're looking "forwards"...

"Left" and "right" in car manuals usually assume you're looking "forwards"...

Maybe that will help...

    
    Most Haynes manuals have a little diagram showing which cylinder is 
    which.
    
    Mark (I wish it'd stop raining and I could give the Beast another run!)

    
    
    Good point about the looking forward bit..as I said it was late at
    night and I probably got it wrong..haven't had chance to re-read the
    books yet
    
    cheers..tom

    
    As you probably know there is a replica of the Lola T70 in production
    (this month's Kitcars International features it), but lurking in the
    back of last week's Autosport I find a report that Lola themselves are
    planning to build exact replicas (from original tooling) of the car!
    The cars are planned to have 5.7 litre Chevrolet V8s (like many of 
    the originals) and the first could be ready in the early Summer.
    
    This follows on from Ginetta's decision to build G12s and G4s
    (predominantly for the Japanese market) and I also read of another 60's
    sportscar (damned if I can remember what it was though, a bit like a
    Lotus 23 in size and layout) going back into production.
    
    It looks like REAL replicas are BIG business!
    
    Mark

    
    
    While i remember...back in note 366.212 a chap named TONY offered the
    services of an old friend who made CObra wiring looms...IS TONY READING
    THIS ???..if so post a note cos I want a loom...
    
    thanks
    
    Tom

    Re .769 and ff discussion on suspender bushes.
    
    I finally did it by heating the bushes up in boiling water for about 20
    minutes, applying copious amounts of liquid detergent ant then pushing
    them through the aperture in either the connecting link or the
    anti-roll bar end using the plunger in a tube method.
    
    Hooray!
    
    I now have to by my wife a new saucepan as the kids complain that their
    baked beans taste funny.
    
    Not-so-hooray.

flicking through a few car mags in WH Smiths this lunchtime...

a factory 3.5 V8 (rover) Westfield 7 - with large bonnet bulge!

power to weight ratio of 474bhp/ton

0-30  in 1.9 secs
0-100 in 8.7 secs (FastLane test)

and all for ~�16k


...art

    
    Yeah, I saw this too.
    
    The article says that for 10 grand you can burn off any ordinary
    Ferrari, but you'll need to spend the extra bit to be able to humble
    F40s! :^)
    
    Mark

    Anyone out there interested in a Davrian T8 Modsport that I have 
    lurking in my garage??
    
    If so give me a call 'cos I need to sell it to make room for another
    toy.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Simon.....844-3232

    
    Sorry, can't help with the Davrian, but what's the new toy?
    
    Mark

    	Another MK111 Escort for the Road Saloon Championship. I
    	havn't got enough space for both of them.
    
    	Simon.

    
    Wish I had room/funds for the Davrian, my latest CMI magazine contained
    details of a historic modsports series for next year. Oh well.
    
    Anyway, back to the Beast. The time has come to start thinking about
    overhauling the braking system and I know some of you have Aeroquipped
    your brake hoses. What I was wondering was, where can I get hoses made,
    how much do they cost and is there anything special I need to do/know
    about Aeroquip type brake hoses?
    
    Mark

Speedex (on the West Wilts Trading Estate, next door to Marcos cars and owned
by Jem Marsh) make Goodridge braided hoses to order.  I've always found them
very friendly and competitively priced.  And for your car they're probably the
most "patriotic" company to use!

    
    They might even do a complete ready made set. Any idea on price?
    
    Mark
    
    PS Speedex are an even older company than Marcos. They used to make
    Fibreglass bodyshells to fit onto old Ford Chassis.

They were ~�8 each.  They make all hoses specially, but have lists of the
sizes and end-fittings for "standard" hoses so can make these up and sell them
as standard sets.

I just said I wanted hoses x inches long, with such-n-such end fittings, and he
did them while I waited...