Conference terri::cars_uk

    		RE- .125
    
    	It is not wise to put tubes in tubeless tyres. If you do get
    a puncture and you have to have a tube put in your tubeless tyre,
    use it as a spare. If you are like me and zoom at motorway speeds
    you will find (I did) to your cost that your tyre will go down.
    This happened to me twice on the same tyre and the puncture was
    in the sidewall and there were no metal bits anywhere. 
    	Apparantely, tubeless tyres flex more in the sidewalls and also
    run hotter which causes extra stresses on the tube and cause it
    to go down. (And there is also the possibility of those rough bits
    coming through). Since then ANY puncture which required a Tube,
    I threw away and got a new one or used as a spare for emergencies
    only.
    
    	Happy Unflat Motoring.
    
    			Chris_I_dont_use_tubes_in_my_tyres_Tyler.

    Did you know that you can't get a tube to fit low profile tyres?
    I have tried before, as it seemed a waste to throw away 2  pirrelli
    195*15 low profile tyres in the space of 2 weeks!. They had only done
    5000 miles!!
    
    Carl_who_does_not(cant_afford_to_at_that_rate)_use_Pirrellis_any_more!

Re .133

Well, I've run with tubes in tubeless tyres many thousands of miles after
punctures and have NEVER had a problem with them.  In fact I've got one in/on
right now and ran the length of the M6 at 70 - 80 mph last week without any
loss of pressure.

However you should *not* run with tubes in a steel belted radial as water will
get in between the tyre and the tube and the sidewall *will* rot.

/. Ian .\

Really?  Well the Goodyear stell belted radial in question is fine after about
15,000 miles so far, and a previous Pirelli steel was also found to be in
fine condition when the tread eventually wore out and I replaced it.

Amazing that air stays in tubless tyres of all kinds, but water can get in too!
Suggest you change your puncture repairer Ian!!!!!!  8-)

	I've run tubes in tubeless tyres for years on end in the
	past with no problems whatsoever.

	If you left the tubes out then the tyres would go down
	though!.

	I think that tubeless tyres/rims are much better nowadays,
	since I don't seem to have to attend to tyre pressures at
	all.

	-John

I just realised - my E-type has tubes in tubeless tyres.  It has to - it's got
wire wheels!

Brian

In this case I am merely reporting what I read.

I use tubes on off road tyres - but the tyres are designed for the tubes.

Sorry if information is duff.

/. Ian .\

    Ah ha, what ?
    
    Could you please explain to me, a complete novice obviously, why you
    need tubes in tubeless tyres, if you have wire wheels. This could be of
    interest to me, as I fancy buying a little sixties "sports"car, and
    there is a fair bet that it would have wire wheels.
    
    Colin

    
    WAG!
    
    Because of the holes where the spokes go into the rim?
    
    Mark

>>Because of the holes where the spokes go into the rim?

Right!

The need for tubes could be the case with any *vintage* auto.  Just because it
has steel rims, doesn't mean they're air-tight.  Most steel rims I've seen that
are designed for tubless tyres have some sort of stamp on them indicating that
that is the case.

-Al

    
    The Marcos magnesium wheels I have are obviously not airtight either
    as I have tubes! It came as a bit of a shock actually when the tyre
    fitters gave me back the tyres with tubes in them!
    
    Mark

    Sorry if this has been asked before.....
    
    What is the procedure for changing ALL the tyres on a fleet car.
    
    My RS turned up with UNIROYALS which have the same friction
    co-efficient as greased butter. The bloke at my local garage (who
    specialise in racing rallying etc) says what I need is a set of
    YOKAHAMAS.
    
    Do I need to attempt to get all four tyres to wear out at
    the same rate.??                                                 
                               
    When I want/need them replaced can I get what I want or what PHH
    say I should have.         
                               
    Does this cost me dosh ????
    
    Regards
    
    
    Bruce (going for a spin)

Sensible answer #1 :  suffer until they wear out and then change them.

Sensible answer #2 :  put forward an exraordinarily strong case to fleet and
                      get their agreement to have them changed before their
                      end of life. 

Notso Sensible answer #1 :  Stick a knife in all four and destroy them.

Notso Sensible answer #2 :  leave the car in Brixton over night and claim for
                            new wheels on the insurance.


Sensible Answer #2 is the recommended course of action :-)

as regards which tyres you can get on a PHH card, it's up to you to be sensible.

Don't spend any more on your card than you could justify spending if you were
paying out the dosh then and there.

If Yokahamas (or whatever) are what is recommended for the car and are not
too over the top, then that is what you get put on the car.

The garage/tyre place has to clear it with PHH anyway, so it may be wise to
forwarn them as well before getting the tyres fitted.  PHH is very reasonable.

Re -.2

Leave the car in Brixton overnight, and you'll need a new car !

Iain

    I think the limit on a PHH card is �50.
    
    Grant

no....it's not the limit.....

50 squid is what a vendor can put on the card without authorisation from PHH.

over 50 squid....they have to ring PHH *before* accepting payment using that 
card.

sorry, that "accepting" should have been "finalising"...

    Both PHH and Hertz get a little upset if you try to replace all
    4 tyres in one go, even more so if you have rotated them and want
    a new spare as well.
    
    Nevertheless, if the tyres really need replacing, they can't refuse
    because they would be forcing you to comitt an offence. Thus they
    tend to let you change them after a bit of a fuss. I wouldn't be
    surprised if they sent an inspector around to the garage if things
    looked a little suspect though!
                          
    Depending on the car, why not replace the tyres in pairs - it may
    change the handling slightly, but perhaps for the better eg. Grippy
    front and not-quite-so-grippy rear makes cornering more fun (at
    least in a front wheel drive)!!!!
                                     
    I very much doubt that you can ask fleet to change them "'cos you
    don't like them much".
    
    mb
    
    p.s.
    
    They get upset if you change them at 11,000 miles n'all!

    
    Replacing all four in one go:  depends on the mileage. I had a new set
    of four at 33,000 with no problem from PHH.
    
    begin_rathole {
    
    Since then I have suffered three punctures, ALL of which resulted in
    the sage at KwikFit saying "...can't mend that pal, too near the
    shoulder...can't fit inner tube..." and a replacement tyre.
    
    It appears KwikFit's unbiased view is that any nail penetrating a tyre
    within 5 inches of the edge of the tread is a selling opportunity.
    :-)
    
    } end_rathole
    
    Brian

When trying to replace a blown tyre recently I discovered that the tyres fitted 
to my vehicle were "light duty" tyres and ATS declined to replace them with the
same "as the insurance company won't let us".

Hearing this I felt I had an excellent case to have all tyres replaced with
safe tyres.

PHH do not agree. they will not authorise replacement until wear reduces the
tread to below 2.5mm on a tyre or it blows.

So you may be driving on dodgy tyres but PHH won't let you put on decent ones
until they are actually worn out.

/. Ian .\

    
    I had a tyre which had a nail right through the shoulder re-vulanised
    for about �8.50 last year. I can only imagine this was safe as the
    tyre fitters (not a Kwick-rip place) could easily have told me that
    I would need a new tyre and taken about 10 times that off me!
    
    Mark

    re: .156

    Have you considered that perhaps the #8.50 goes straight
    into the fitters pocket, where as the #85 would go to the
    company. I doubt they are on commission ...

    Mark

    
    Re .157
    
    You sceptic ! :^)
    
    While that may be true in some cases, the fact that they had to
    send the tyre away to another company to do the work suggests it
    wasn't in this case.
    
    Mark

    
    
    
    Re: PHH, tyres and replacements.
    
    I've now twice replaced all four tyres using PHH with no
    problems. The tyre place suggested though that all five would
    be near impossible.
    
    PHH only do authorisations on Monday to Friday, as they close at the
    weekend. But I know you can still use your PHH card at the weekend -
    and buy more than �50 worth..... Another way to get 4 new tyres???
    
    I thought that there were speed resrictions on vulcanised tyres?
    Does anyone know?
    
    Richard.
    
    

    on the question of tubes, I use tubes in my rally tires (Michelin) so
    that if I happen to pop a bead then the air won't go rushing out and
    leave with a dead tire.  It's cheap insurance at about $8 per tube.  I
    haven't blown a Michelin in the 2 years I've been running with them.
    
    Dave

    re -  the discussion on tyre repairs, can anyone reccommend somewhere
    in the Reading/Newbuy area which will do it, one of our winter tyres
    has got a nail through it, and we want it for the spare for our
    forthcoming trip to the (hopefully) snowy mountains!
    
    Elaine

    re .155
    What are "light duty" tyres?? I've not heared this phrase before and
    can't imagine how it applies. (only allowed two passengers/drive less
    than 40MPH/ only drive on single carriageways for less than 50 miles??)
    
    Can someone enlighten me please?.
    Richard

Tyres are rated by speed and load.

The tyres fitted to my Espace are rated for use at speeds less than 85 mph only 
and for "light loads" only.

The recomended ones are rated up to 130 mph and for the full load of the 
vehicle.

So the prospect is that if I carry a full load and travel at motorway speeds the
tyres may fail because I am exceeding the design loads. Not a happy thought.

/. Ian .\

    Does anyone know if you can tell PHH or Hertz what brand of tyres you
    want on a given vehicle - Dealers have told me that they can ask for a
    preferred brand at no extra cost to the purchaser.
    
    
    john

What will the difference in handling be between fitting 185/70 tyres on 13"
rims and 185/60 tyres on 14" rims?

Can I fit 185 tyres on 5.5" wide rims?
What about 4.5" wide rims?  Will 175 tyres fit these or would I have to use
narrower ones?

Assuming I can use 185/60x14 HR tyres, what's the "best" tyre under �50?  Or
should I spend more than that?

I want them to be long-lasting (20k+ miles?), with excellent roadholding in all
British weather, all year round.

Ordinary road use only,"spirited" but sensible driving style.

They're going on wire wheels, so I'll be using tubes, if that makes a difference
(looking through earlier replies suggests it probably won't, though...).

Goodyear or Michelin seem very good, but there are so many brands these days
it's hard to know what to choose!

Confused of DECPark.

    
    Try Super Contact by CONTINENTALS. - The local coppers use them on
    there high persuit(spl) cars. So they must be good alround tires.
     

I had Super Contacts on two SRi's a few years ago. They hold the road very well
but I wore them out in 10K miles (I can usually manage 15k on a set oof MXV's!)

Rgds, 

   Dave

    
    Has anyone else had Eagle NCT2's fitted to their car ?
    
    Those are the ones that look as though they may be directional (but are
    not) because the tread pattern is at an angle of 20 degrees or so.
    
    Since having them fitted i've noticed two things :-
    
    1.	The car shakes like mad at 60, is ok at 90 and it not to bad at the
    limit.  I suspect this is down to the balancing, as i've had a
    computerised tracking check done, and will be looked at in a weeks time
    at its next service.
    
    2.  Cornering power is down, but only (subjectively) in one direction. 
    Turning left seems to be ok, but turning right does not feel to
    brilliant (although it seems to have go slightly better over the last
    1500 miles.     Any ideas anyone ?  It's all very strange.
    
    The treads all point in the same direction.  is this wise ? or should i 
    ask the garage to have them all pointing out (or in) ?
    
    And the third thing is that they are EXPENSIVE.  I think i should have
    got a new set of continentals on reflection.  22500 miles and still
    going well.
    
    Nigel

    
    Having had a puncture on Thursday, I had to replace the rear right
    tyre on the MR2. As it was running NCTs, which suited it very well,
    I shopped around for the best price for an NCT and decided to go
    to Tyre Sales in Abingdon.
    
    Having gone to get the tyre fitted, I found they only had NCT2s;
    so I've got a car with 3 NCTs and 1 NCT2 on the rear right. On
    the road the car felt different, rather more nervous than before,
    but the real eye opener was yesterday, at RARDE. RARDE is a
    military test establishment at Chobham, with various facilities for
    testing anything from lorries to tanks to rally cars.
    
    One of the most useful facilities is the handling circle (a wide expanse
    on tarmac with circles marked on it) where you can put the car under
    pressure by driving quickly in a circle. Any tendency to understeer
    or oversteer is evident as you try to keep the car tracking on one
    of the marked circles, and it highlighted the difference made by the
    new tyre rather dramatically...
    
    Circling to the right, and gradually increasing speed the car showed
    the normal tendency to understeer, changing predictably to oversteer
    if you unsettled the car. Managable, fun, and predictable.
    
    Circling to the left, with the new tyre playing a more major role,
    the initial understeer was almost non existent. Instead the car would
    circle up to about the same speed and then fall very quickly into oversteer.
    Severe, adrenalin pumping, arm flailing, oversteer. If you lifted as
    it began to slide, then generally the car would spin. It all happened
    rather too quickly for me, and only after spinning several times was I
    beginning to recover the car.
    
    Its hard to describe how dramatic the difference was, but suffice to
    say that Reading Toyota are now checking that the suspension isn't at
    fault. I don't think it is, so the next step will be to voice my
    concerns to Goodyear (The NCT2 is a pretty big step back from the NCT,
    in fact its dangerous in this set up). I expect I'll end up having to
    live with the tyre, in which case it'll go on the front axle - I'd
    rather a bit more understeer than the current situation!
         
    Bill.

And you shouldn't mix tyre types on the same axle at all; I'm not surprised
things went wrong.  I doubt if it's because NCT2s are bad, it's just a bad
combination.

But if you insist on keeping the one NCT2, leave it on the back.  You must
have identical tyres on your steering axle (ie the one at the front!)

Scott

(PS The tyre place should be jumped on for fitting it in the first place!)

	
Bill,
	I hope that this spinning habit of yours is not adictive...

Dave

    
    Bill, 
    
    	Why don't you use the spare instead ?  Presumably that is NCT, or
    	is it the original continentals.
    
    	As someone who has all 4 on NCT2's i'm also not happy.  See my note
    	a few back.  It seems to me that it has less lateral grip than than
    	the continentals, but that is purely subjective.
    
    	Nigel

    
    Thanks for the comments, guys. Obviously it wasn't my intention to
    mix tyres, I was too happy with the original NCTs to want to switch,
    but the garage lead me to beleive I'd be buying an NCT...
    
    The spare is a Continental, they're OK but I preferred the NCTs. Don't
    really want to use it as its on a clean wheel.
    
    So, currently the car goes round right hand bends well, but not round
    left hand bends. Will buying a new NCT2 to even up the tyres on
    the rear axle make the car handle better, or will it just mess up
    cornering on right hand bends as well?
                 
    Bill.

If I were you, I'd take the car back to the tyre place and insist that they
fitted the tyre you asked for.

    
    I intend to take the matter up with the Tyre Sales place, especially
    having spoken to Goodyear's helpful Techies who said that the pairing
    was legal but ill advised. (They were impressed that I managed to get
    the car to drive in a circle at speed!)
    
    So, I'm going to need a new tyre. In fact, preferably two, as I'm far
    from convinced that the NCT2 is a good tyre choice for the MR2.
    
    Bill.

    
    Well, the saga draws to a close. Tyre Sales Abingdon were courteous
    and helpful when I spoke to the manager (who also fitted the tyre),
    and explained the problem. 
    
    I went down to Micheldever, bought a Continental to match the unused
    spare tyre, and let Tyre Sales Abingdon fit it. They took the NCT2
    back, giving a full refund. 
    
    So, I now have a properly handling car - 2 Contis on the front axle
    and the NCTs on the rear. I'll move back to Contis now that Goodyear
    are abandoning the NCT.
    
    Oh, by the way, I know this is the wrong note but its worth mentioning
    that Esso, 4 star, at Esso Tyre Sales Abingdon was 1.80 when I was in
    yesterday... 
    
    Bill.        

>> Goodyear are abandoning the NCT

What are NCT2s like in comparison to NCT?  I assume these are the replacement
for NCTs.  How do they compare to Michelin MXZ (at least I think it's Z...)

Scott

    What's all this about NCTs being withdrwan? My Frogeye has got those
    fitted, and I'm VERY pleased with them. *Are* they being replaced? Does
    anyone know with what and why?
    
    Laurie.
    

    
    Its just my understanding, based mainly on a chat with a Goodyear
    distributer, and the fact that nobody I asked could source one...
    
    The NCT2 is the replacement, supposedly quieter and offering better
    wet weather performance.
    
    I was after a 185/60 R14 - not sure about what's happened with other
    sizes.
    
    Bill.

    
    That's wierd.  A month ago, in the Coventry area, everyone had NCT's
    and it took 7 or 8 rings to locate NCT2's.  
                                        
    Nigel

Time to come out of the closet - I've got NCT-2's fitted on the front of my
Golf.

I've only had them 4 weeks, so I can't comment on wear n' tear.

Rain and dry grip in all conditions is excellent. I can tear up the
mountain to work significantly faster than before, without losing any
confidence handling. Mind you, the thing originally came equipped with 
Uniroyals, and people may comment that this is not a valid reference point....!

Steve

    On the subject of 'performance' tyres, there is an article
    in one of this months magazines which ran a detailed set of
    tests on 7 or 8 of the leading tyres.
    
    I bought the mag. for this article, but cannot remember if it
    was "Fast Lane" or "Performance Car" - neither are regular reads.
    
    I was particularly interested as not only did the test the tyres
    which I am using, but on a four-wheel-drive turbocar (the Ford).
    
    The overall results rated the Dunlop (D3?) tops, Yokohama AVS
    (intermediates) second.  The others, I forget.
    
    A point that I do remember is that during their testing, wear
    was measured.  On the better (for wear) tyres, this came out at
    approx 0.4 millimetres, but the Bridgestones (RE71's) it was 2mm !
    
    Any interest out there ?
    
    If anyone would like to know more, I could bring the mag into
    work and enter the remaining contenders and scores...
    
    John

 I swapped my tyres from the front to back and vice versa on my RWD escort, and
it handled so much worse for about 2 weeks that I was desperately tring to work
out what had broken, although it probably has extended the life of the tyres.

 They are now fairly equally worn front and rear (almost bald!!!!) but I doubt
I will try this again !! 

	 Alan
	~~~~~~

In the Renault Owners manual, it specifically tells you NOT to swap tyres
around.

    
    Re .189
    
    Does it?
    
    Funny, I suggested that maybe I should do that when I was at the 
    dealers and they said I could, but it probably wouldn't make a 
    LOT of difference to the wear rate (one set would wear out
    eventually!). As the tyres aren't especially expensive I didn't
    bother.
    
    You only really notice a big difference in road-holding when you
    put less worn (or new) tyres on as the gradual effect of the tyre
    wearing is compensated for by your driving (although they do squeal
    more as they wear out!).
    
    Mark

What about doing a 5-tyre swap, including the spare, ie:

left rear -> left front -> right rear -> right front -> spare -> left rear

This way you don't get a spare sitting in the boot rotting for years (by the
time you need it the rubber may have perished too much to be usable).  Also
you can renew all five tyres at one time, ensuring the spare is always of the
same type / age as the rest, so won't cause handling problems by being a
mis-match.

Yes I know you have to shell out for five tyres instead of four, but only 4/5ths
as often as if you didn't use the spare...

Scott

Personally, I replace the front 2 every year, and the back 2 every other year.

Usually at the start of winter, so I get maximum tread for snow etc...

    
    Re .193
    
    Is this an observation of wear rate, or do you do it regardless of 
    wear?
    
    Mark

    Re .191
    
    	I have found that my tyres squeal nore when new, perhaps due to
    	deeper tread depth, tread blocks get more distorted ?
    
    Re. 187
    
    	I don't rotate my tyres regularly to even out the wear.
    
    	On my car (integrale) the front tyres were noticeably quicker
    	than the rears.  I blame this mostly on my driving style, as
    	I often throw the car a bit too hard into bends/roundabouts,
    	which puts the car into understeer (yuk).
    
    	Since they wear quicker, I replace tyres in pairs, rather than
    	swapping them round and buying a full set each time.
    
    	In doing this, I do put the newer tyres on the front, as that
    	seems to give me better 'feel' than running half-worn tyres.
    	As for whether I get less grip 'in extremis' this way, I do
    	not know - but I do get both understeer and oversteer according
    	to the way I drive (and the bend being encountered).  In this
    	case I do not know if improving grip at either end would help
    	the handling overall.
    
    
    As for my choice of tyres, I have used Yokohama's of various types and
    sizes over the years.  On a Cavalier Coupe (old Manta), I had A001 HFR's
    in 205/60 x 13 size.  I tried both 'hard' and 'soft' compunds, much
    preferring the latter (they gripped more, didn't squeal and lasted
    almost as long).  On my Manta GT/E (still old), I have had some A001's,
    then a set of A008's.  These felt great in the dry, but left something
    to be desired when trying to pull out of wet junctions in a hurry.
    
    I now use Yokohama AVS tyres (205/50 x 15) and am pleased with them.
    Initially, I had a set of 'dry' compund tyres.  The front pair of
    these lasted about 8 months.  I then put on two 'intermediate' spec
    tyres.  A few months later, these went to the rear and a new set
    (intermediates again) put on the front.  I expect to buy more again
    soon, partly due to incorrect wheel alignment (integrale bug-bear).
    
    Forgot to mention, the car when delivered had Michelins of some sort,
    in 195/55 x 15 sizing.  These squealed under the slightest provocation,
    slid around frequently (especially in the wet) and felt insecure
    under hard braking.  I changed these within one month, doing a form of
    'part-exchange' for the above-mentioned tyres.
    
    Well, that was a bloody long note wasn't it ?
    
    I shall have to control myself - the same applies to my driving !
    
    J.R.

    Re .195
    
    �	I have found that my tyres squeal nore when new, perhaps due to
    �	deeper tread depth, tread blocks get more distorted ?
    
    See Derek for details of 'scrubbing tyres in'.
    
    �   On my car (integrale) the front tyres were noticeably quicker
    �	than the rears.  I blame this mostly on my driving style, as
    �	I often throw the car a bit too hard into bends/roundabouts,
    �	which puts the car into understeer (yuk).
    
    This doesn't sound unusual. On RWD cars the fronts still wear out
    quicker than the rears, with all the power and steering going on 
    at the front of an Integrale I'd expect prodigous front tyre wear.
    
    I doubt you could improve the relative wear rate of the front by
    changing you driving style.
    
    Mark

    Re .192
    
    If I had five 'usable' tyres, I would think more about swapping
    them all around.
    
    Trouble is, my car has a 'space saver' in the boot.
    If it did not, there would be no boot !
    
    J.R.

    
    On the subject of tyre tests.
    
    How valid can a tyre test be? It's a fair comparison of various
    tyres on one type of car (in this case a Sierra Cosworth), but it
    seems unlikely that the tyre which suits a Cosworth 4x4 would suit a 
    2WD Cosworth as well, let alone an MR2 or a Renault 5 GTT.
    
    The trouble is, of course, that carrying out you own tyre tests on 
    a particular model is an expensive and/or long-term occupation!
    
    Mark

    Re .196
    
�    This doesn't sound unusual. On RWD cars the fronts still wear out
�    quicker than the rears ...
    
    Is this so, I would expect rear tyres to wear out first, on a
    powerful RWD car.  But yes, the front tyres do have a lot to do
    on my car, even though the rears are trying to help.
    
    J.R.
    

    Re .198
    
�    How valid can a tyre test be? It's a fair comparison of various ...
    
    The tyre tests concerned were very extensive and were a *comparison*
    so any conclusions should be relevant in most applications.
    
    It could be that a tyre found most suitable on a Cosworth 4x4 is not
    THE most suitable on an MR2, but if it is found that one tyre does
    not grip so well in the wet, or wears out sooner, wouldn't that
    still apply - whatever the car ?
    
    Personally, the tyre that grips the most and doesn't wear out TOO
    much quicker than another will be top of my list, whether it is to
    go on a 4WD, RWD, or FWD, front-engined, mid-engined, rear-engined car.
    
    J.R.
    
    Others may prefer a quieter tyre, or one that last longer.
    The tyre tests will still indicate these parameters.

    
    Sorry to disagree, Mark, but on the Toy the fronts always outlast
    the rears. After all, in a RWD car the fronts wear due to braking
    effort and cornering (which will wear the shoulders); the rears
    wear under acceleration.
    
    If your rears are outlasting the fronts, it would seem to indicate
    that you use the brakes more than the power?
    
    Bill.  

    Re .203
    
    I find rear tyres wear quicker on Manta GT/E, but that does not
    have surplus horsepower !
    
    Agree with your point on braking putting more load on the front
    tyres - on almost all cars.  Whether that sort of load should
    make a tyre wear more, I'm not so sure.
    I would say that gentle load would not wear the tyres out much,
    but any form of slipping/sliding certainly would.  As tyres are
    under duress more often due to power or steering excess, what
    do you think will wear out most then ?
    
    Also agree that integrale is based on 'conventional FWD' car,
    but driven rear axle also receives power according to 'central'
    diff and then apportions it according to rear diff.  As these
    both incorporate slip-limiting devices, the rear does do a bit
    more work than a 'simple driven axle'...
    Further problem when 4WD car is understeering, extra power both
    makes front want to go wider, and rear forces the front in the
    dead-ahead position as well - increasing understeer.
    Lift-off at this point can have remarkable change in stance of car !
    
    J.R.
    

    
    Ok, maybe on toys the rears wear out faster, but on MOST
    RWD cars the fronts still do the most work. Also the weight
    in conventional front engine/RWD cars is biased towards the
    front therfore making steering and (even gentle) braking harder
    on the front tyres. Surely a great deal of tyre wear is due to the
    scrubbing at low speeds caused by parking, etc. This must be greater
    in a Front Engined car than a mid-engined toy, mustn't it?
    
    The Integrale is a conventional FWD car with a driven rear axle
    (essentially, I know it's one hell of a car!) so the bulk of the 
    weight is still over the front wheels (certainly compared with the
    23 or an MR2).
    
    Mark
    
    PS What do Beetles and 911s wear their tyres like?
    
    PPS Most of what I'm saying here is conjecture. I'm quite happy to 
    be proved wrong. Maybe my RWD cars have not had enough power to wear
    the tyres out! :^)

�		Whats low speed mean?
    
    Remember Pembrey?
    
    Mark 

    
    No.
    
    I know what you drive like on the road!!!! :^)
    
    All you really need to do is forget you're on a race track and
    those Ultimas will be eating dust! :^)
    
    Mark

    .195�    	I don't rotate my tyres regularly to even out the wear.
    
    Interesting.... my tyres rotate regularly whenever I take the car out
    for a drive.....
    
    .195�    	On my car the front tyres were noticeably quicker
    .195�    	than the rears.
    
    Interesting... I find that all my tyres go at the same speed - although
    just accasionally, on very slippery roads, the back ones do try to
    overtake the front ones...
    
    :-)
    

    
>    Is this an observation of wear rate, or do you do it regardless of 
>    wear?
    
This tends to be the wear rate, I'm doing approx 36,000 miles a year at the 
moment.

Changing them at the start of winter is just convenience, for maximum tread 
when I need it most.

If I switched the tyres round, I'd probably end up changing all four every 
year...

:-)

Anyone know anything constructive about those German tyres - Continental
(I think that's the name) ?

    
    Re.205
    
    911 rears,  9,000 miles
       
        front, 18,000
    
    Spacesaver spare, and larger rears than fronts. Anyone tried to rotate
    these?

    I have just replaced the front tyres on the Golf.  I had Goodyear Eagle
    NCT's (175/70 HR13), which have lasted only 13k miles.
    
    I have now gone for Goodyear NCT 2's on the front.  They are marketed
    as transmitting less road noise and as being better in the wet.  They are 
    the same price as the original versions.  The best price I managed was 
    �44 each, fitted (unbalanced as requested, with new valves) from 
    Wheelgame, Tadley.
    
    I think the cause of the poor wear was the tracking being out (literally) 
    since before I had the car (over a year now), and the garage air hose under 
    reading the psi pressure (which I thought was 26 psi).  The tyres were 
    badly worn on the inside tread, and in the middle (over inflation). The 
    outer edges which I regularly glance at were like new.  8*(
    
    One of the tyre dealers said this was only a few thousand miles under
    TYPICAL front wear for soft tyres on a fwd Golf GTi.  8^o
    
    I have sinced had the new tyres balanced, after driving about 150 miles.  
    I only recently heard that you should let new tyres bed into the rim 
    before balancing.
    
    So, the moral I just learnt is: 
    	get tracking set at about 4 month intervals (�10), 
    	buy an accurate tyre pressure guage and 
    	get the wheels balanced after driving a few days on the new tyres.
    
    Does anyone have any further advice or wear rates?
    I would like reduce personal expense in future!    8-)
    
    Rob.

I have 185 60 HR14 NCTs on my GTI and they last about 25-30k miles.  They wear
more in the middle than at the edges, even running at the right pressures.
Maybe I don't go round corners fast enough.  I do rotate the tyres front to back
but keep them on the same side of the car so they always rotate in the same
direction (except when reversing, to forestall the obvious comments). 

Mike.

    Hello Mike,
    
    185/60 HR14 NCTs on the Golf, is that your MK1 or MK2?  My MK1's alloys
    (the thick spoked ones) take 175/70 HR13's according to the VW Owners
    Manual.  Are these on Pirelli alloys (a la A-reg Campaign GTi)?
    
    Some tyre dealer was trying to sell me 195/50 tyres, telling me they
    are perfectly safe!
    
    Rob.

    My Mk2 GTi has different reccommended pressures for half-load or
    
    fully loaded, the tyre wear in the middle would indicate over
    
    inflation. Maybe you used the fully loaded pressure and are driving
    
    around mainly only � loaded.
    
    Jeff K. 

Hi Rob,

I have the "coke bottle cap" alloys on my Mk1 GTI (we've sold the Mk2) as 
fitted to the 16V GTI and previously to the Scirocco Storm.  These are 14 inch 
6J rims.  Although 195/50H13 would fit I think, the rolling radius is less 
than 175/70H13 so your fnal drive gearing is lower and your speedo will read 
high.

Cheers,

Mike.

�fitted to the 16V GTI and previously to the Scirocco Storm.  These are 14 inch 
�6J rims.  Although 195/50H13 would fit I think, the rolling radius is less 
    
    How would you get 13inch diameter tyres on 14inch wheels ???

>�fitted to the 16V GTI and previously to the Scirocco Storm.  These are 14 inch 
>�6J rims.  Although 195/50H13 would fit I think, the rolling radius is less 
>    
>    How would you get 13inch diameter tyres on 14inch wheels ???
>
Well, read the context.  Rob Screener was asking about the safety of using 
195/50H13 tyres on his 13 inch wheels.

re.-2, I am aware of the different presssures for car loading and speed and I 
use the correct pressures, measured with an accurate gauge.  I could reduce 
the pressures obviously, but how much and would it have any detrimental 
effect?  As I mentioned before, I get 25-30k miles from a set of tyres so this 
is not a big issue.

Mike.

    I used to swap front-rear pairs: when the rears got thin, I bought a
    new pair for the front and moved the half-worn front pair to the rear.
    It seemed to me (technical term) that the half-worn pair then wore down
    very quickly. Local tire dealers (two) told me that a particular wear
    pattern (or rubber stress pattern) was established on the tires while
    they were on the front; when they were switched to the rear, the
    stresses/wear-pattern changed and they did wear down much quicker.
    
    russ

    Re .186 'tyres tests' .187 'yes, please'
    
    Well, here is some information extracted from the article.
    The results were described over about ten pages, quotes here
    from the conclusion only.
    
    The tyres tested :-
    
    Bridgestone ER 90  205/50ZR15
    B F Goodrich Comp T/A 205/50VR15
    Dunlop D40 M2 205/50ZR15
    Firestone Firehawk 205/50VR15
    Goodyear Eagle 205/50VR15
    Michelin MXX2 205/50/ZR15
    Yokohama AVS (intermediate) 205/50ZR15
    
    Overall scores (highest points = best score) :-
    
    Dunlop	8836
    Yokohama	8725
    Goodyear	8523
    Michelin	8147
    Bridgestone	8078
    Firestone	7637
    BF Goodrich	6903
    
    Comments in the text stated that minimum score any tyre could
    get would be around 6000, maximum possible would be 10000.
    
    Comments on the tyres :-
    
    Dunlop 'worthy'
    
    shortest dry braking distance
    runner-up in all wet-track disciplines
    fastest avge lap time on high-speed circuit, but with
    lowest average and lateral 'g'.
    rated highly for turning, grip and stable braking, most 'confident' tyre.
    
    
    Yokohama 'noisy'
    
    performed well in dry braking test (like the Dunlop)
    stability and adjustability in the wet praised
    recorded highest dry track lateral 'g', but with modest lap times - and
    did not impress testers, thought it was 'out of its depth'
    an accomplished road tyre, with proviso that commendably low wear rate
    is at the expense of constant road roar (the noisiest tyre on test).
    
    
    Goodyear 'solid'
    
    most 'rounded' (pun excused) tyre.
    strengths of this tyre : hardwearing and quiet, handling admired on
    both circuit and road route.
    
    
    Michelin 'dry belter'
    
    Kevlar-belted tyre most advanced design
    Best dry track tyre - but in the wet it skittered and skated to
    6th (out of 7) in performance, last in testers opinions.
    consistent dry track times, wet times improved, but comments on
    nervous responses showed dislike.
    2nd noisiest tyre, road performance no more than average
    praised for sharp responses in tight, low speed corners (esp. slalom test)
    
    
    Bridgestone 'unloved'
    
    technically among the best, but woth wear and opinions taken into
    account 'it dropped out of contention'.
    2nd on lap time, high speed circuit.  1st in rate of turn-in and avge 'g'.
    on wet track, recorded fastest lap time and highest peak 'g'.
    rated for grip and adjustability, but warned of sudden breakaway.
    Wear rate of 2mm after 57 very hard miles, against 0.3mm on Yoko's !
    on road, equal lowest with Firestone for feel, confidence and stiction.
    lowest of all for tracking and stability under braking
    
    
    Firestone 'merit-less'
    
    didn't generate much noise - 'or much of anything else'
    shortest wet braking distance
    lack of grip the main shortcoming
    
    
    BF Goodrich 'dull'
    
    beyond 2nd fastest slalom time, little else to commend it
    last in wet track disciplines
    very noisy
    described as sloppy, ill-defined and dull, although
    it was preferred to the Firestone
    

    Michelin just announced that 1990 financial results will show a
    2.3 billion FF loss (to be confirmed at end of year) due to the recent
    acquisition and integration of Uniroyal and BF Goodrich.
    
    They will shortly introduce a "green" tyre with cleaner environmental
    characteristics.

    For the record I have just completed 55,000 miles in my Peugot 205GT
    on one set of Michelin tyres (although I've just replaced the front
    axle tyres now) !!
    
    Regards,
    
    Stephen
    

    Hi,
    
    I am looking at replacing my front set of tyres currently NCT's.
    
    I have been offered a really good deal on some AVON Turbo steel's.
    BUt unfortunately I don't know whether these will be good or NAF on my
    car. Do any of you use these tyres currently on your cars, if so what
    are they like ?
    
    Thanks for any help or advice.
    
    Regards
    
    Jon
    
    p.s.. FYI motorway are offering these 185/60/hr14 at 39-00 plus VAT.
          The cheapest I have managed to find NCt's in 46-00 plus VAT.

    I used Turbospeed (b == not so hard) on a 900cc Polo for a while
    (165's). This may seem a funny combination but it gives a car capable
    of going round any corner at (almost) any speed - especially impressive
    in the wet when it could out corner my parents race prepaired 911 SC
    (Running turbo size P7's)
    
    But as my dad was in the passenger seat at the time this is maybe not
    too surprising ie ``tail in cornering''.
    
    PS. You may gather from this that the Polo was not entierly standard -
    an interesting `Q' car.

                       ****PRIVATE CAR OWNERS*****
    
    If you have ever had rude Tyre fitters from the large type suppliers
    who treat you like a slightly lesser person, then I"ll tell you where
    you can get the best service & advice and pay really good prices.....
    
    It's at THAMES VALLEY TYRES LTD in Reading.  The guy there was full of
    honest advice for my sister's new car and my husband's motor bike.  We
    saved pounds seeing a chap called John Preston who owns the company. 
    He spent time explaining where a tyre wears, why & how & was very
    friendly.  
    
    It wasn't the best place for comfort, but we preferred to be given good
    sound advice on how long a particular make of tyre would last, and what
    would be best on front & rear etc.   
    
    He operates from a yard near Zenith (that was), off Craddock road, turn
    right down a pot-holed drive & on the right on the corner....Unit 2,
    Tunbridge Jones ltd, Reading.  His number is 0734 753158.
    
    Regards
    ALEX

    Re. note in KITCARS topic :-
    
�        <<< Note 576.257 by VANTEN::MITCHELLD "............<42`-`o>" >>>
�                             -< Autosport 91 show >-
    
�8)Yokohama ( A008R is better than A001 HFR)

    In what way ?  I presume you are mostly concerned with the compound.
    
    I have used both of these tyres in the past (on the road).
    
    The A008 has less tread pattern, in a *very* assymetrical pattern.
    It resulted in frequent loss of traction when roads are wet, but
    does grip well when pushed in the dry.  The A001 seemed more
    'progressive' (again, only as far as road use can show).  I did use
    both HR and HFR compounds of this tyre.  Strange thing was, I think
    I could tell that the softer tyre gripped better, but it did not
    seem to wear any quicker.
    
    I expect the A008'R' is a softer compound - for racing, is that so ?
    
    Anyhow, what information did you get on the tyres ?
    
    J.R.

>>A001,A001HFR,A001R,A008R.

In the U.S. we also have a A008R TU which is a better race tire than
the A008R. One person told me that the R TU had a softer compound than
the normal R. Another person told me that the TU was only a shaved version
of the R.???? I never did a side by side comparison but I did run better
times with the TUs than the Rs.

�The tyres rotation arrow is forwards on the driven wheels and backwards on
�the non-driven wheels.
    
    I can see some logic in this, if you consider the stresses between the
    bead of the tyre/wheel rim and the tread surface.  On non-driven wheels,
    the tyre is only asked to do a _lot_ when braking.  Then again, tyres on
    driven wheels are usually worked harder by the brakes than the engine...
    
    Whatever, I would expect (if I think about it) the directional arrow
    to indicate the designed direction of travel for the tyre.
    Wouldn't this have some bearing on the angles/relationships of the
    underlying tyre construction, such that the tyre will flex more or less
    according to the way (direction) in which the tread meets the road
    surface ?
    
    So, Joe Public, Yourself and Myself are all wrong.
    
    Where did you glean this latest piece of information, also from
    the 'motor show' ?
    
    Whatever solution is correct, what matters most is that besides
    Joe Public - the tyre fitters should know the answer...
    
    J.R.

    
>>Tyre fitters knowledge : At one place they put one of the tyres on back to
>>front!!!
    
    
    And then had the cheek to treat me as "stupid b***dy woman" when I went
    back to ask them to put the tyre on the 'right way round' !!!!
    
    This was on the Landy where they all should point forward.
    
    Elaine
    
     
    

    
    perhaps they thought you only put assymetric tyres on sports cars?
    
    /. Ian .\
    who wishes they made SATs in a version rated for motorway speeds...

    Re. .233 & .235
    
    This is also fairly well known here in the U.S.A.  Someone has them on
    that way said it is a Yokohama recommendation.
    
    Note that this is for the A008* only, and it is related to the
    construction of the tyre, as oppose to something like a Bridgestone
    RE71, where it is related to the tread design (for wet surface) and
    should always be mounted in the direction of travel.
    
    -=Chong=-

Hello pannel

	I have just ( this lunchtime ) found a nail stuck firmly through the
tread of my rear nearside tyre. I immediately took the car down to National
Tyres on the Basingstoke road and asked them to check it out for me. Sure enough
the nail had gone all the way through. National tyres have repaired this hole
with a plug patch ( a cross between an innertube patch and an air bed bung ).

	The question I want to ask is do you think that this will be a safe
repair ? The car is a Renault 5 GT Turbo, which is driven with enthusiasm, I
would hate to crash the car because this repair let me down. The tyre itself
has covered about 1700 miles. The patch is on the flat part of the tyre that
makes contact with the road.

	Thanks in advance

		Barrie.

    
    Barrie,
    
    I ran my Renault with a repaired tyre for about 10k miles without any
    problem. Unfortunately the same tyre suffered another (seemingly
    unrelate) puncture and run flat on it caused the sidewall to be
    damaged.
    
    I would feel happy driving it in this condition.
    
    Mark

    I respect Mark's comments as he speaks from experience.
    However, I would consider the 5GTT a performance car and as such
    I would would be unhappy running on a repaired tyre.
    
    - Roy

    So interchange it with the spare ...
    

    Do you think a tyre company would let you out on the road on a dodgy
    tyre?? They would advise you to get a new one if it was dangerous.
    A. Because there reputation is at stake.
    
    B. Because they could make more money out of you.
    
    
    Ian.

    
    Exactly.
    
    Mark
    
    PS The 5 GTTs spare wheel is a steel wheel so you'd have to swap the
    tyre from one wheel to another.

    Well my father-in-law had a similar thing happen to his SAAB Turbo
    (Pirelli P700's) and they patched the tyre ... it lasted 5 miles. So be
    carefull.
    
    	Rik.

 As the car is a fleet car I shecked with them, they would like me to change the
tyre.

	Thanks for all your replies.

		Barrie.

    re .245
    
    Is the Renault spare still steel on all R5 Turbo's? 
    
    
    Greg (who's never looked at his, and hopes never too!)

�    Greg (who's never looked at his, and hopes never too!)
    
    
    Naughty, Naughty.
    
    You mean you don't check the pressure of your spare tyre ?
    
    Here's hoping that you won't ever need it.
    
    J.R.

FWIW, I had a chunk of glass in one of my tyres (Michelin MXV).  The mechanic
literally dug it out with a gouge and put in a plug repair.  He told me to run
the tyre hard for a few miles to amalgamate the repair - and 10,000 miles later
it's still running fine, although there's only 2mm of tread left now and I'll
have to replace the tyres by 55,000 miles.  Shame, as they're guaranteed by
Sears to do 50,000 :-(

    
    Think this is an old subject, but I ran a repaired tyre happily until
    it wore out, often at 150+ mph, no problems ....

My spare tyre SHOULD be checked at each service!!!!!



Greg

    Has anyone any expierience of Yokohama AVS151 tyres, I've just ordered
    a set to try them???
    
    Simon
    

�    Has anyone any expierience of Yokohama AVS151 tyres, I've just ordered
    
    I've used the AVS tyres on my integrale, size 205/50x15.
    
    Can't remember offhand whether they were 151's or 153's, if I'm
    correct this relates to dry/intermediate use - on the road !
    
    Personally, I think they are good tyres.  They give extremely good
    grip in the dry and are still reasonable in the wet (although my
    car obviously helps here).
    
    I have entered details from a 'tyre test' in this conference, a
    couple of months ago.  If I can find it, I'll post the note number.
    
    J.R.

    Anybody heard owt about TOYO tyres? (205/50*15) - can't remember the
    model number. They seem pretty cheap compared to Pirellis/Goodyear and
    in their advertising they quote a german test that rated them above
    Pirelli (p600), Goodyear (eagle) and Dunlop (d40).
    Any advice?

�    model number. They seem pretty cheap compared to Pirellis/Goodyear and
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    That's the only thing I know about them.
    
    Doesn't mean that they are bad tyres though.
    ( But they cannot be among 'the best', surely ? )
    
    J.R.

    Like I say, according to this ADAC (German equivalent to AA) report,
    they scored very highly. I'd have thought beating Dunlop D40s, and 
    Goodyear Eagles must put them up there among the best.
    The price worried me too though...
    Alan.

    
    What did the report test for? Ultimate grip or grip in the wet and
    long life?
    
    What makes a tyre 'the best' depends on your (and in the case, the 
    test's) viewpoint.
    
    Mark

�    What makes a tyre 'the best' depends on your (and in the case, the 
�    test's) viewpoint.
    
    How about a tyre which squeals a lot, generates lots of tyre smoke
    and leaves large black marks when wheelspinning away from the line ?
    
    One specially generated for the Furry Dice/Bolt-on Goodies crew   ;-)
    
    J.R.

    
    Re .259
    
    Where can I get these tyres? Are they really only available to makers
    of American crime series?
    
    Mark

�    Where can I get these tyres? 
    
    In my experience, Michelin have managed to make tyres that seem
    to foot the bill on two out of the three requirements   ;-)  ;-)  ;-)
    
    J.R.

    So any way, I've owned both Toyo and Yokohama.  The Toyo was reasonable
    sticky and lasted longer than any other tire I've had.  The Yokohama's
    were stickier, but didn't last as long.  I would recommend them both if
    they fit your needs.
    
    							-chuck-

     Gooday,
     
     I am in the fortunate position of needing a pair of rear tyres for my 
     Golf.  The wheels are 5�J + 13.
     
     I currently am on standard size 175/70 HR13 tyres (Goodyear NCT II's 
     front, Pirelli P5's rear)
     
     I would like to put bigger tyres on the rear to give a little more 
     traction, then replacing the fronts with the same size when the current 
     NCT II's wear out.  I do not want to change the external diameters, my 
     spedo is about 10% fast.
     
     Campaign MK1 Golf's and the MKII's now use 185/60 HR14 tyres.  Note 17.31 
     mentions that 185/60 and 175/70 have similar radius, but these wheels are 
     an inch bigger in diameter than mine.
     
     My question is the same old chesnut, how does one calculate the external 
     radius of an inflated tyre?  I presume that for simplicity we can leave 
     tyre pressure out of this equation.
     
     I remember seeing somwhere here about the /70 denoting sidewall height as 
     a percentage of tyre width.  The formula and any advice will be much 
     appreciated.
     
     Cheers,
     Robert.
     
     p.s. A discussion on the difference between 70 and 60 series tyres and 
     their differences is welcome too.

The rolling radius is:

- half the wheel size (eg 6.5 inches for a 13" rim)

- plus the tyre sidewall height.  This is the tread width (in millimetres; the
  175, 185, etc bit of the tyre size) multiplied by the tyre profile (eg the
  /60 or /70 bit) divided by 100, then divide by 25.4 to get it in inches.

Deduct about 1/4" for tyre "squashing" under load.

People may argue that the tyre wall overlaps the rim, and that the
measured tread width overlaps the sidewall, etc, but I've always found the
above calculation accurate enough for all practical purposes...

Scott

PS This may be stating the obvious, but if you want it all in millimetres,
multiply the half-wheel-size by 25.4 instead of dividing the sidewall height
by 25.4.  For centimetres then divide it all by ten...

    Putting bigger tyres on the back won't give you better traction.
    
    Mark
    
    PS Might work on a BMW though! :^)

	It might give better traction, in some circumstances.  However, 
	unless you're playing with a surplus of power, better tyres rather
	than more tyres is the rule.  Large tyres are heavier and need more
	driving (increases inertia), they also increase the sprung weight
	and can give a lumpier ride.  The biggest improvement would come in
	dry conditions, but you may find yourself skating in the wet.

	Having said all of this, the Marlin has 15"x7" compomotives (lightweight
	alloy) with vreidersteins (cheap Skandinavian, but pretty good).

	Dave

    
    How can putting bigger tyres on non-driven wheels give better traction?
    
    Mark

	Loose terminology - rat hole alert - I understand traction to mean
	general grip.  Perhaps I ought to use the term to mean the ability
	of a driven wheel to drive (put power down).

	Dave

�Deduct about 1/4" for tyre "squashing" under load.
�
�People may argue that the tyre wall overlaps the rim, and that the
�measured tread width overlaps the sidewall, etc, but I've always found the
�above calculation accurate enough for all practical purposes...

    Not too sure of the validity in deducting the quarter-inch.
    
    For comparison purposes this should have no effect.
    
    It would go wrong if you then work out the 'revs-per-mile'
    of the wheel, as the circumference will not be directly
    affected by the 'tyre squash'...
    
    J.R.
    

    I currently have 185/55 HR15 tyres on my Pug 205 GTi, I was thinking of
    replacing them with 195/55 HR15.  Question is: What noticeable difference
    will there be (if any), ie. grip, handling, acceleration etc?
    
    Thanks, Craig.

    
    Probably very little. You might do better to switch makes to get
    a tyre which suits your requirements better (do you want more grip,
    less road noise, better wear, what?). 10 mm is not a lot at all, but
    you will find your speedo will be slightly affected because, obviously,
    55% of 195 is more than 55% of 185.
    
    Mark

    I was thinking of changing makes as well to either Pirreli(sp) P600 or
    Good Year NCT2 (any recommendations?), but I thought a width change
    might help as well (for grip).  Road noise or wear is a low priority
    for me (lease car), but if like you say, the size won't make much
    diffrence I'll stick to the 185s.
    
    Thanks, Craig

When my Michelin MXVs ran to the limit (fronts at 45,000 miles, rears at 41,000)
I replaced them with Firestone F560s - special deal from the Goodyear dealer!
The Firestones give MUCH better grip in the wet (not that *that* matters much
around here) but squeal more on dry roads.  So far, no complaints except that
the n/s/f threw one of it's balance weights .....   If wear patterns are
anything to go by, I should get around the same mileage from the Firestones,
although the fronts have only done 5,000 so far and it's hard to tell how much
has gone to date.

Brian

FYI - New MXVs were $96 each (plus tax, plus fitting, plus balancing, plus $1
for them to get rid of the old carcass!) whereas the Firestones were on offer
at $35 (plus all those extra bits).  The whole set, fitted and balanced, came
around $220.

....I haven't yet found one type of Pirelli tyre that is not lethal in the 
damp/wet...I shouldn't have thought that the P600 is any different.


Great in places like Italy were it "doesn't rain" !


mind you, they are fantastic in the dry :-)

I've just fitted the new Michelin MXV-2's to my car.  I'd recommend them to 
anyone wanting up to 130mph rating...

Quiet, good road holding (wet & dry).  


There's also the MXT's, don't know about them though.

I'm onto my second set of MXV's for my 1.9gti. Reason for sticking with them 
was their excellent performance in the dry (braking and roadholding). Little
disappointed with them in the wet though. Didn't change to another tire
because a tire "stalling" (understeering) early in the wet makes me keep my
speeds to a sensible limit where in the dry anything goes... 

Ahhh Gi'day...�

    I've P-600's on my M3.  They are VERY temperature sensitive, every time
    the  clouds go away (not very often at the moment), you have to recheck
    the  pressure,  or  the oversteer gets a bit violent at the edge.  On a
    hot day it's tail out everywhere.

    In rain  or  snow  -- forget them.  I must admit I did get about 21,000
    miles  out  of a set of 225's which is more than I've ever got out of a
    set of tyres.

    re: MXVs
    
    I actually have MXVs on my car at the moment, its mainly the terrible
    grip in the wet (it rains alot here in Manchester!) that has made up my
    mind to swap to another.  
    
    I've been put off the P600s now so it looks like Good Year NCT2 it is.
    Still don't know whether to go for 195s yet though!
    
    Thanks, Craig.

    
>    I actually have MXVs on my car at the moment, its mainly the terrible
>    grip in the wet 


Can't agree there....my MXV's are pretty good in the wet.  

How on earth do *you* drive when it's raining ??????  ;-)

    
    The MXVs on my Renault were pretty good in the wet. The Renault/MXV 
    combination in the wet was better than the Calibra/P600, but obviously
    it's unfair to directly compare. I'd say, subjectively, that the MXVs
    DID have better grip in the wet than the P600s, but they are probably
    on a par in the dry.
    
    Mark

    
    Right, my Pirrelli P600s have worn out on the front, so I'm in the 
    market for some new tyres for the Calibra. The P600s don't seem to
    grip as well as they could, so I decided to ask Micheldever for some
    recommendations.
    
    They suggested the following :-
    
    Yokohama A008s (I think) as giving the best grip, but I understand
    these don't wear very well, as I do 60 miles a day I don't really want
    to be replacing tyres every 3 or 4 months.
    
    Goodyear Eagle Directionals as a good second choice with better wear
    characteristics.
    
    Any comments on these tyres (especially from anyone with a big FWD
    car), especially the Eagles, which sound very 'sexy'! :^)
    
    Mark

you can get Pirelli P Zero tyres (as fitted to F40s etc) in sizes to fit cars
down to GTis etc etc; they'd be even sexier than the Eagles...


...art

    I still like my NCTs.....
    
    Laurie.

    
    Re .285
    
    And no doubt a lot more expensive! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    re .284
    
    Mark, Did they say what sort of wear you'd get out of some A008s?
    You mentioned 3+months @60 miles per day = approx 6,000 miles? 
    
    Someone also mentioned A001s in here as well? Anyone with any
    experience of these?
    

    Richard.

    I'd be interested to know about Yokos too. I currently have Goodyear
    Eagle NCTs on my Escort RS Turbo and was considering Yokos as 
    replacements. Anyone got them on theirs (or for that matter does anyone
    still have an Escort RS, and if they do will they admit to it :-) )
    
    Gary.

    
    
    
    17.224 (Report on different tyres) says the Yokos were really
    noisy. Is this true for all Yokohamas or just that sort?
    
    

    
    My comments on the wear were a guess (more of a generalisation really),
    but from everything I've seen and been told the Yokohama's are built
    for grip and not for wear.
    
    Thanks to Micheldever tyres, the Calibra is now shod with a pair of 
    directional Goodyears. Obviously it's too early to say if it feels
    better, but I'll put in some comments once they've bedded in a bit
    and I've given them a try. On first acquaintance the car seemed less
    prone to tramlining (following bumps in the road), but that may simply
    be because I've got more tread.
    
    Mark

    I have had yoko A008s on my BMW since new, and so far I have covered 
    20,000 miles (80 miles a day, 50 motorway and the rest on normal driving).
    
    So far the front ones look as though they will cover another 20,000 no
    problem, but the back will need changing in the next 2,000 miles or so.
    
    I've been very happy with them, I didn't notice any extra noise, when
    I changed to them from some michelin tyres, that the car originally
    had, but the extra grip in the dry and wet was much much better.
    
    The only negative point, is that they were completely useless in the
    snowy whether we had recently. I locked the car away during this
    period ! this was more likely due to the extra width (205/55), than the
    quality of the tyre itself.
    
    I'm considering some AVS replacements, does any one know how these
    compare with the A008s on price/performance, etc.
    
    Raj

�                             -< A vote for A008s >-
    
    I had a set on my Manta and thought they were great on dry tarmac.
    In the wet, the rear was particularly easy to break traction, but
    this is mainly due to the car being rear-wheel drive with most
    weight over the front wheels.
    
    Other cars would probably find less of a grip problem, since
    the Manta suspension is quite old-fashioned.
    
    On this car, I think I preferred A001's (these were also cheaper)
    as they seemed well suited to the power and the suspension.
    A better car might find other tyres more suitable.
    
�    I'm considering some AVS replacements, does any one know how these
�    compare with the A008s on price/performance, etc.
    
    Had these on the integrale.  No complaints.
    
    I felt that they were better both in the wet and the dry, but
    that was comparing the Lancia with the Manta.  No matter how hard
    you try to view it, this cannot be an accurate comparison.
    
    On that car, I needed to replace front and rear pairs within 6 months.
    Front tyres wore out sooner than they should due to tracking going
    out of alignment (and caster + camber).  Rear's wore out due to
    [relatively] hard use.  Mileage about 15K miles p.a.
    
    As for cost, they are a fair bit more.  On the Lancia I think it
    was worth paying the premium, as this gave me outstanding grip.
    (price in comparison with other Yoko's, but check sizes too)
    
    J.R.

    Re: .278
    
    I thought P600's were a VR tyre?!?  I'm running P700-Z on my M3, and
    they're finished on the rears tread-wise after 10K miles!  The real
    problem is that all four have cracked on the sidewalls, all need
    replacing - even though there is still some tread on the fronts.
    
    Re: .285
    
    Yup, you can get P-Zeros in loads of sizes now, but be careful... on
    the F40, SZ etc, each of the three different tread patterns on the tyre
    is made ina  subtly different rubber compound (hence the silly cost). 
    On the 'production' P-Zeros, even though the pattern is the same, the
    whole tyre is in one compound.  They still have the kevlar belting and
    so on though.  In fact, I've just ordered a set of four in 225/45 ZR 16
    size for me car (see above).
    
    
    Dave.

    I think you will find P-Zeros and M3's go well together :-)
    
    After a lot of trial and error with P-7's and P-700's on the Snail, I
    finally laid my hands on some P-Zeros and it completely transformed the
    roadholding.
    I found the P-7's offered more grip than the P-700's, especially in the
    wet, where the 700's were useless. The P-Zeros allowed me to use all
    available power in overtaking on a wet road without fear of sideswiping
    the vehicle I was overtaking.
    Wear rates I found to be about the same, 10k per set, but with the cost
    of not much change out of �1k per set, and a mileage of 40k per year,
    I must have been either dedicated or just plain daft :-)
    Amad�n
    

�    problem is that all four have cracked on the sidewalls, all need
    
    How come ?  London roads causing you grief ?
    
    J.R.

    Re .296
    
    �1K!?! What size are you running? I'm paying �700.00 inc VAT, fitting
    etc for a set of four P-Zero 225/45 ZR 16's.
    
    Re .297
    
    No, not London roads.  I have AC Schnizer suspension and front strut
    brace on my car, together with the Hartge front mounts to give some
    extra camber on the front.  Together, they drop the car by about an
    inch, and the only body roll is from tyre flex!  As such, the lateral
    forces on the tyre cause it to wear evenly across the whole tread, and
    put undue stress on the sidewalls (I tend to drive rather quickly, you
    see).  I hope that the P-Zeros will help, as I believe they have a more
    advanced sidewall (unlike the RE-71s, which are just plain rigid!).
    
    
    Dave.

    I *was* paying approx �225 each for 225's and �275 each for 235's for
    the rear. The last set I bought was almost a year ago, maybe they have
    come down in price since then ?
    
    Amad�n

    Yes, they're �150 each plus VAT now, including fitting etc. 
    Incidentally, I'm buying them from you local BMW dealer!  They were
    able to match the best price I got from a local tyre discounter, and
    I'd trust them a lot more with my car!
    
    What car are you running, Amad�n, that uses mixed sizes?  Porsche?
    
    
    Dave.

    Dave,
    	I am 'between cars' at the moment, (one motorcycle and two
    puchbikes...). The 'Racing Snail' was a B.B.R. Sapphire Cosworth, with
    a stage two engine and all the suspension mods. Initially I had 225's
    all round, as I was a bit nervous of rubbing the wheelarches (standard
    cosworths do this under what I think of as quite mild cornering, and
    with 205 tyres). I found that it was not always possible to transmit
    all of the available energy into forward motion, so I upped to 235 on
    the rear. That worked fine for me.
    Amad�n

    Ah, all becomes clear.  Was it a Mogul 440?  And did you have any
    problems with P-700Zs, akin to my own?  I guess our cars are broadly
    similar (yours probably had more power, mine more chassis balance etc)
    so it might be a desgin fault in the P-700Zs if you did...
    
    
    Dave.
    
    P.S. The cracking is not visible from the outside - it's only on the
    inside of the tyres!  As such, it's pretty dangerous, as it could cause
    a blow-out under repeated hard cornering!

    Ok then, simple question....
    
    Where's the place with the cheapest 155 R 12 tyres around here in
    Reading...any makes considered. I just want the cheapest tyre available
    (no part worns/remoulds though!) as my car is not really worth spending
    any substantial amount of money on.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Dale.

    Just rang around.....cheapest quote from a company called Welserv in
    Caversham. Undercut nearest (SMC) by 3 pounds.
    
    Anyone ever been to them....any good?
    
    Dale.

    Dale,
    
    Try Micheldever Tyres
    They are just a junction along the M3 from Basingstoke, near
    Micheldever Train Station.
    
    They also perform Hunter Optical Wheel Alignment, which is a must at
    least every few years.  For the cost of about �14, I now seem to get 
    double the life from my front tyres.
    
    Tyre prices are down with the best.  A real Tyre Specialist.
    
    Regards,
    Robert.

    Hi,
    
    I've seen this question being asked before in this conference but
    didn't see any straight answers.
    
    Are 195/55-13 tyres SAFE on 13 x 5�J rims ?
    
    Anyone out there using this combination ? 
    
    I seem to have read somewhere that this is still permissable but am not
    sure....
    
    
    Seow-Hurn

	Can anybody tell be the depth of tread on new MICHELIN MXV2's ?
   
	I'm trying to estimate how long the ones I have will last on
	my ASTRA SXi. Astoundingly (to me anyway), they've covered 
	20,000 miles and still look to have 5-6mm of tread left.


Paul.

Re: .307	(MXV2)

The rears will last you at least 60,000 miles, the front about 25,000

(if my Nova GTE was anything to go by, same power in a lighter car)

    I hope my new MXV2's don't last 60,000. 6,000 would be too
    much for me !! 
    
    The MXV2's have completely transformed the handling of my Rover Gti.
    If you want more understeer and more body roll fit these tyres
    to a rover. Wet or dry they aren't a patch on the p600's.
    
    My advise if your Rover's due some new tyres don't fit MXV2's.  
    
    Has anyone else fitted MXV2's to a Rover and had a dsimilar experience?
    
    
    
    

    
    Are you sure it's the tyres? I can't imagine how a change of tyres
    would lead to body roll!
    
    Mark

    Mark,
    
    The increased body roll is probably just a sensation. Basically I don't 
    feel confident about these tyres. Matched to the Rover the performance
    is at best poor. 
    
    
    

    
    Perhaps they've a less stiff tyre wall?
    
    The Pirelli P600s on my Calibra were horrible! I've not used MXV2s, but
    MXVs were brilliant on my Renault.
    
    What pressure have you got the tyres at? Maybe it'd be worth talking to
    someone like Micheldever Tyres about the pressure that these tyres work
    best at on a Rover? 
    
    Of course, they may just not suit the Rover!
    
    Mark 

    
    
    I'm running with more pressure than I did with my p600's to compensate. 
    32 psi. 
    
    I guess I'll just have to live with them.
    
    

    
    Umm.
    
    Maybe more pressure's the wrong way? I used to run my Renault's MVXs at 
    23PSI, but Derek Mitchell hated his (on a Maestro) at 32, until he
    lowered the pressures.
    
    Might be worth trying, if you haven't already.
    
    Mark

    
    Well, my experience with these tyres was with a 205 (knicked in
    Brussels) Gti.
    
    Got the car with worn P600s all round. Changed front tyres for NCTs,
    great grip, wore out in 7,000 miles. Put MXV2s on, still great. 
    
    Tyres and wheels got knicked (Brussels!), put MXV2s all round.
    
    Hopeless, didn't give even vaguely the same feeling. Don't know if the
    part worn P600s on the back just suited the car.
    
    Michelins do tend to be harder wearing tyres, perhaps the Rover is as
    light as the 205, and that they need softer tyres?
    
    
    
    Anyone got any experience of Continental Aqua Contacts? I'm planning on
    buying some for the rear of my car, which I feel could be over-tyred in
    the wet - 245/45 16"
                                                                         

    
    Mark,
    
    I'll try lower pressure but I'm not hopeful! 
    
    Regards,
    Jonathan 
    

    RE: .315
    
    VW/Audi Car mag tested some Continental Aqua Contacts.  I think they
    were quite impressed with dry performance, and amazed with the grip in
    wet conditions.
    
    I'll try to dig the article out.
    
    Rob.

    
    Cheers, Rob.
    
    They are getting fitted this weekend, will let you know. The comments
    are pretty much the same as I heard. I also read that they work better
    as the size goes up .... funny being here in Switzerland where the
    original idea of the two bike tyres on one wheel, which spawned them, 
    came from!
    
    Didn't Patrick see this note, or has he not tried them yet?
    

    .318�    Didn't Patrick see this note, or has he not tried them yet?
    
    I did use various brands of Contacts in the 70's when I was living in
    Switzerland. I liked them, very effective on ice and on wet roads. One
    year I decided to keep them all year round. I think those were Conti's.
    
    It was actually a better idea than unmounting the tyres after winter
    and storing them in the basement. Next winter the magic had disappeared
    ....

    re the Michelins.
    
    I read in a car mag this month (cant remember which on but it had a
    mean 309 on the cover) about somebody writing in with a query on MXV2's.
    The guy said after having them fitted to his Pug 205 the handling was
    terrible and worse still in the wet than his previous tyres (cant what
    they were) their reply was that there should be no problem fitting
    these tyres to the Pug, that they were compatible etc etc.
    It just seems from what has been mentioned about these tyres that they 
    are a load of s*?t.
    
    Nick

The MXV2's are the best tyres I've ever had on both the Mini and the Nova.


The P600's both the Mini and the Nova started out with were totally useless in
the wet. 


The are a lowish pressure tyre...pump them up too much and you loose all the
good things about them.

    I have MXV2s on my Golf Gti.
    
    They last for ever, grip well and hold their grip in the wet quite well
    (at least, better than I expected).
    
    But then, when I put P6s on a Manta GTE I once had, the wet handling
    was similar to ice dancing (yet when I had similar on an XR3, it was
    lovely).
    
    All I know is I'm happy with what I got - especially since I expect
    them to last for 60k miles.
    
    
    Tony (the wimp) Orchard

�    But then, when I put P6s on a Manta GTE I once had, the wet handling
�    was similar to ice dancing (yet when I had similar on an XR3, it was
�    lovely).
    
    Then again, the Manta is renowned for having poor wet-weather grip,
    being rear-wheel-drive but having no [substantial] weight at the rear.
    The poXR3 doesn't suffer from that particular handicap, no matter
    what tyres you would choose to use.
    
    J.R.

    Keep in mind that every manufacturer designs a car with a tyre
    manufacturer. It is therefore normal for car X to work well with tyres
    Y.
    
    If you look into most cars operations manual you'll find the list of
    tyre manufacturers and the list of tyres that have received the car
    manufacturer's official homologation.
    
    I can very well understand that the 205GTI won't work well with certain
    tyres if the suspension geometry, springs, shock absorbers have not
    been designed for these specific tyres.
    
    Be very careful with cars that have great cornering capabilities. They
    need specific tyres to work well.

    
    How about MXV3 ?
    
    Anyone tried these ?
    
    They seem to be standard issue on the Audi 100 here.
    
    
    Seow-Hurn

    Hi Colin,
    
    �    Well, my experience with these tyres was with a 205 (knicked in
    �    Brussels) Gti.
    
    Have you tried paper tyres?? ;-)
    
    John W.

    I was told by a local tyre firm that the Goodyear Eagle NCT have now
    been replaced by the GSD.
    
    I figure they must be as good and have just had four 225/50VR16's 
    fitted to my Supra Turbo. Too early to tell what they're like 
    though.
    
    Anybody else have any experience of the the GSD's
    
    Paul.

    
    Anybody care to comment on the Goodyear Eagle NCT2? 
    
    I'm especially interested in any cases of people using them on Calibras
    or Cavaliers. My Eagle ZRs are just about worn away on the front and,
    although I've been very pleased with them, they're a bit dearer than
    the NCT2s, so I'd be interested in any comments on the grip and wear
    rate of NCT2s.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mark

I wore my NCT2's on a Golf GTI inside 14,000 miles. I was not impressed!
This figure was only achieved by running them real low, and swapping front and
back a couple of times to even things out. Maybe they've improved - I bought
these two years ago?

I've replaced them with a Uniroyal model that came out late last year.
So far these have done 14,000 miles, and there is probably 4-5,000 miles left
on them. They are the equal of the NCT in the dry, and are superb in the wet -
never any worries. Mind you, I've only got 115 horses under my foot - so
"Your mileage may vary" as they say.

As I get older, more responsible and meaner, I may buy some ever-lasting
Michelins next time & blow the lack of grip!

Cheers

Steve

I've used NCT2 on a Cavalier SRi and CDi. I'm getting 16000-17000 on the fronts
and 35000-40000 on the rear (that's based on three front pairs and current rear
pair).

Dave.

    
    Ummm, 14000-17000 sounds poor compared to the 24000+ the Eagle
    Directionals are giving me. Maybe it'd be a false economy to buy
    the NCT2s? 
    
    What're the grip, road noise and ride like?
    
    Mark

    I'm told by a local tyre company that the NCT2s has been replaced by
    the GSD, which is what I've just had fitted to my Supra.

>  What're the grip, road noise and ride like?

I don't have problems with any of the above but that's all very subjective
unless we set up an extended test trying out different tyres.

Dave.

 I got 17000 miles and wasnt impressed with the mileage.

    
    The car came with P600s and they do not suit it at all!
    
    Mark

Re: P600's

Ah yes, Vauxhall have a nasty habit of using that tyre on their new cars...

I learnt my lesson from the last one, and specified that this latest one be 
delivered with MXV2's (I know they aren't GSD's or N(whatever's) but they suit
the car) fitted, P600's are 'orrible... :-) 

    
    Get some Conti Aquacontacts ...

    
>    Get some Conti Aquacontacts ...

Aren't those very soft...i.e. wear out very quickly ?

    I've used NCTs' twice. Once on a Scirocco GTI and on a BMW 325. Both
    times they showed very poor grip, wet or dry, raod noise - generally
    rubbish. I think NCTs' are all hype. In fact on the 325 I managed to
    get them to change them after a weeks use. The dramatic reduced grip
    was dangerous even a medium speeds - especially in the wet.
    
    Try Michelin MXVs'. They don't push them as boy racer tyres. But I've
    found them to be the best sporting tyre/wear rate compromise by a mile.
    
    Rupert

    I've got NCTs (the old type) on my Frogeye. Damned good tyres I think.
    
    Laurie.

I get no road noise whatsoever from my NCTs.

Dave.

    
    My NCTs were noiser than :  
    		-	Michelins
    		-	Uniroyals
    		-       Klebers
    
    on the *same* car.
    

    
    
    	MY michelin MXV2's are very noisy when compared to NCT2's and the
    NCT2's provide better grip in the wet.
    
    	Wear is the same between the tyres.
    
    	Chris.

I've just returned a hired Rover 214SLi with Pireli P2000s. The noisest tyres
I've ever heard or was it the car?

Dave.
PS What lousy brakes, I'll be careful next time one of those is behind me!

    
    Thanks for the input everyone.
    
    I plumped for the Eagle Directionals again. The old pair had done
    24,000 miles, which I considered good and, as I commented on buying
    them, the Calibra handles a lot better on them than on the P600s.
    
    Micheldever tyres suggests the Bridgestone S01 as an alternative, but
    rated the Goodyear as being just as good on grip. Given that I knew the
    Goodyears wear well, I decided on another set of them.
    
    Still, I've a 197 pounds (Sterling) lighter wallet as a result!
    
    Mark 

    
    Just had Hertz on the phone, asking us to get the cars down there
    quickly, so that they can fit the winter tyres. Apparently Hertz HQ had
    told him to do it.
    
    Seeing as this is Switzerland, one could assume that the snow is on its
    way!

    Colin,
    
    Sounds like they just want to beat the rush-buy of winter tyres that
    happens as soon as it snows... you know... �cm of snow and the prices
    double...! ;-)
    
    
    					Lewis.

    
    Whatever you do Lewis, DON'T buy your tyres in France!
    
    BTW, got 30% off mine from the dealers .....
    
    Cheers,
    
    Colin

    	Care to give some names and address??? Oops is this CARS UK?
    
    Ok, can you send to me, Lewis Bishop @FYO or RUTILE::BISHOP?
    
    Cheers,
    
    					Lewis.

    
    Well the MXV's on the GTT have just covered 25,000 amazing when you
    consider I used to get about 10,000 out of P600 on my previous GTT but
    are becoming quite lethal with 2mm of tread left so its time to change.
      But does anyone know or tryed any different rubber for the renault?,
    I did hear that continental were making tyres in this size.
    
    
    
    Regards Martin

    Question:
    
    I've been quoted identical prices for the following Contact Tyres for
    winter use here:
    
    Michelin XMS100
    Goodyear UG
    
    Anyone know which is the better tyre? (The seller said take the
    Goodyear -- maybe they're on commission?)
    
    Thanks,
    
    Piers

Having just taken my car in to get the front wheels balanced, and them advising 
me to change the tyres......yes I know, but...

PHH did their level best to try to get me to accept Dunlop or Pirelli instead
of MXV's, this is despite the fact that I have MXV's specified in my lease
contract. 


They really are penny pinching these days,   Hertz are *SO* much better, at 
least they understand concepts like "safety"...

Don't be too sure about Hertz being better.

When i took my car (an MR2) in for its 12000 mile service, i also
requested a new pair of rear tyres, but Hertz refused to authorise
the work "because my car was front wheel drive, and it didn't matter".

After informing them that my car was actually REAR WHEEL DRIVE, they
accused me of damaging my front tyres at an earlier date, and swopping
them to the rear. I had to explain that the car had 195 tyres on the
front and 205 on the rear, so this could not be done, and besides,
where was the evidence that i had damaged the front in the first place?

The problem with both PHH and Hertz is that the first-line person that
you deal with is usually a fobber-offer, to deter the all too common
rip-offs that some garages try to pull.

If you have any problems, ask to speak to the Digital representative
at PHH or Hertz directly, and explain the situation. Every time that
i have has problems, the representative has been polite, helpful, and
authorised my requests.

If you get problems with the rep, call Car Fleet (or the Internal
Vehicular Transaction Processors or whatever they are called this
week) because they too are helpful in situations like yours.

Let us know how you get on!

mb

Well, I rang PHH and got a "yes you are right, I'll sort it out" answer, now 
I've just got to see whether that was just fobbing me off or, it really does 
get sorted !

    I today had similar problems with PHH.
    
    2mm left on front tyres and they really needed persuading to change
    them. Then, once they had agreed to change the tyres, they wanted me to
    go down a speed rating.
    
    Not only are they tight fisted but they are prepared to compromise my
    saftey.
    
    Ian.

The lease on my BX was up on Feb 1st, as it was just over 60K miles. My
new car (Cavalier 2.0 LS) isn't being built until next week, so I had
to get it serviced. The garage said it needed two new tyres (the tracking
had been out)

So I took it to ATS, who said it needed 4. They called Hertz who said OK!
No hassles. Even though the car was past the end of lease date....

Peter.

    I just replace the back tyres on my 91 J reg. MR2 coupe. It was fitted
    with Bridgestone RE71's all round. (rear - 205/60 r14 v88) 
    
     Unfortunately it looks like these wear really fast, so does anyone
    know of a cheaper substitute which will not significantly affect the
    wet/dry handling and braking.
    
     I have heard that the handling of the coupe could become much worse
    when substituting other tyres. Also given that the RE71's are
    directional, how much effect would shifting to a non directional tyre
    have?
    
     The one thing I will say is that the RE71's are excellent, they just
    wear fast and cost a lot.
    
     Robin.

    Bridgestones RE71 wear fast you've got to be joking they are as hard
    as nails. BTW I've got 4 off 185/60 R13 RE71  only done about 150 miles
    no significant wear and havent been kerbed 50quid the lot?

    The RE71's come in three flavours, HR=pretty hard, VR=not very hard,
    and ZR= down right soft.
    
    I have used the HR for over 5 years and would get about 50,000 KM per
    set of two.
    regards,
    JP

Hi,

>
>    The RE71's come in three flavours, HR=pretty hard, VR=not very hard,
>    and ZR= down right soft.
>    

I thought HR/VR/ZR means the maximum speed which is 'allowed' to do with the 
tires.
Something like:	HR - max speed is 180 kph (110mph)
		VR - max speed is 210 kph (130mph)
		ZR - max speed is above 210 kph


/-/	Henk.

    This is very true, and you usually get more grip going from HR to ZR
    because usually the ZR tires go on very high performance cars.  But the
    compounds also get softer as you go from HR to ZR.  At least that's
    what was explained to me the first time I bought my RE71's.
    regards,
    JP

    < Note 17.359 by GIGHA::RSOMERVILLE "Competitive Teardown >
                      -< Substitute tyres for MR2 Coupe. >-
    
    >Unfortunately it looks like these wear really fast, so does anyone
    >know of a cheaper substitute which will not significantly affect the
    >wet/dry handling and braking.
    
    As we would say in 'DEC speak' sorry thats not supported in that
    configuration!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Check out note 359.5 to see what happens when incorrect tyres are put
    on. Also look in note 1410.116-118 to see Toyotas' policy on tyres for 
    the MR2.
    
    POL (who has 400 miles left on this set before the 10,000 mile limit
    is reached -and gawd do I need a new set!!!!!

    Thanks for the info. Looks like I am stuck with the RE71 Potenza's.
    
    At least the handling with them on is good. Oh well, looks like I
    had better start saving for the front tyres :^)
    
    Robin.

                    <<< Note 17.365 by GIGHA::RSOMERVILLE >>>
    
    >Oh well, looks like I had better start saving for the front tyres 
    
    If my experience is anything to go by, I'd save up for a new set of
    front disks first!!!!!. I had the front disks replaced at 22,000 and
    the front tyres at 24,000.
    
    POL. (Who had 5 sets of front disks on his Sierra )

    becareful out there...
    
    Wet performance of tyres is mainly down to the tyre compound and
    the degree of inflation.
    
    A difference of only 2 psi can make a tyre in the wet go from nasty
    to OK. 
    
    Tyre compounds for wet use the softest possible. So all you safety
    /wouldnt bet the kids life types/ best not try for tyres which give
    30 000+ miles. Long wearing tyres do not grip in the wet!!!!
    
    The differences between tyres in the wet can be extreme!!! i.e. 
    25% difference in braking distances easy in some cases 50%
    
    Also remember tyres get harder with age, so those 3 year old tyres
    you have on might just not grip as well as new especially in the wet.
    
    Remember the wet is probably the only time joe blogss ever get near
    performance envelope of his 
    
                                                  tyres
    

I'm considering buying Bridgestone RE71s (ZRs). I currently have Dunlops. I
want something with some serious road holding especially in the wet - not
impressed with the Dunlops at all (but then again they are somewhat bald).

I've been given the choice of SF350 VR or the RE71 ZR - the RE71s being 30 quid
dearer. Anyone got strong opinions on these?

	jf

    IMHO the RE71's are probably the best tires for grip that I have ever
    ridden on, however it is a limited opinion.  To save yourself a few
    bucks buy the same size in VR configurations instead of ZR.  I know as
    soon as my all-seasons that came with the car are worn out I will be
    moving right back to the RE71's.
    regards,
    JP

    Hi
    
    I've just had a set of Bridgestones fitted to my Celica.  These are the
    new Bridgestones that have suceeded the RE71's.  I think they are
    called Evolution  902's,  they are uni-directional.  They stick 
    like **** to a blanket.  However I must admit that I never ever 
    drive fast enough to really test them.
    
    Fitted by Micheldever Tyres.  
    
    Bruce
    
    PS:  Yep it's a Hertz car and they didn't hassle me.

    Now you've got me thinking...
    
    How do the Michelin MXV2s compare with the Bridgestone 71s' or their
    successor? I use Dunlops at present on my BMW318is, which are "OK" but
    I planned to move to Michelins - based on passed experience.
    
    Any experience of these combinations ....

    
    I was a real fan of the RE71, but Bridgestone have surpassed themselves
    with the new S01 Expedia. Brilliant, especially with the flood
    conditions we've been experiencing ober here. Have tried the MXV2,
    seemed OK, and the Conti Aquacontact, to replace P700s which aquaplaned
    a first hint of rain.
    
    Go for the S01s ...

    
    	Beware of fitting lower speed rated tyres than the originals.  I
    think that you'll find that the law requires that a vehicle MUST be
    fitted with tyres of a rating suitable for its maximum speed - even
    though that is illegal anyway!
    
    	I'm not for one moment suggesting that anyone in this Conference
    would try to save a few quid by buying a lower rated tyre than the
    original manufacturers, but it is one of those things that the local
    friendly 'bules would "get" you for if they can't find anything else,
    or if they want to "throw the book" at you they would add this to their
    list for you.
    
    	It just seems oportune to mention this in a discussion about tyres.
    
    				Malcolm.

re .-1,
	does VR go to 150mph and ZRs above that?
	The supra is rated at max 147mph and hence the VRs should be ok?

	jf

Bridgestone RE71 s are junk!!!! imho,especially in the wet. Avon Turbospeeds
are much much better at least by 15%. And it isnt just my crap driving
either. Both me and another guy could dice with each other (both RE71) but were
being lapped by a guy on turbospeeds who aint faster just cos he had some
grip!!! Next wet race I bought turbospeeds and was as fast.

....just as I was convinced to go get them.... 8^(

any other takers?


	jf

    Ref .79
    
    Since you're so well informed. Do you have a view on how the MXV2
    performs? Perhaps they don't use them for racing...
    
    Actually I found the Goodyear NCTs the biggest wind up. Big marketing
    hype about how good they are, sporty image, macho, technical etc. Reality =
    sh*te. Useless/danngerous in the wet and tended to drift off line in
    the dry with very little chance of pulling it back in.
    
    Just IMHO of course....

    
    S01s boys, stop playing around!

    nodbody uses Goodyear or Michelin for road racing unless you are in a 
    slicks and wets... i.e. their road tyres arent rated as much good.
    
    The tyres rated are Avon Yoko and for larger sizes BF Goodrich.
    
    Avons turbospeed go for 15sec a lap in the wet
    yokos A008R are better by 2 to 5secs

    
    Derick,
    
    Road cars! I think they might be a little heavier than the skateboard,
    huh?
    
    Have you tried the S01s yet?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Colin

    Yoko 008P are standard equipment on the Porsche 928GTS which is a
    little heavier than Derick's "skateboard". Mind you the Porsche may not be
    as overweight as the Toyota Supra(s) - old-or-new model.
    
    	Rik.

    And I believe the RE71's are standard equipment on the Ferrari 348's,
    512TR's and are co-standard equipment on the F40's.  Everything i have
    read said they vastly improved the wet weather performance on all the
    above mentioned cars.
    Please note however that some tires don't work well on some cars yet
    work great on others.  
    reagrds,
    JP

    
    I suppose we'll get there, eventually ...
    
    The Bridgestone S01 Expedia is the direct replacement for the RE71. ie
    newer, latest technology. Having experienced BOTH, I can say that they
    are far superior to the RE71.
    
    Is it coming through yet? BTW, in our local Porsche dealer, some new
    cars have yokos, but the majority have the S01.

    I am curious now do the make the S01's in 185-60 sizes
    regards,
    JP

Does anyone know what tyres are recommended for the 4x4 Sapphire Cossie, or 
have any other recommendations for suitable tyres?

Cheers,

Faz.

    
    JP, I'll check at lunch time ... but which Toyota uses tyres that
    small?

    I never said I had a Toyota, all I said was that I prefer RE71's.  I
    actually own a Mazda Protege GT SE
    regards,
    JP

Does anyone have any good comparison data between the P6 and P600?  I'm thinking
of upgrading our '85 Jetta to the P600s.  I'm looking for better wet handling
than the P6s but also very good dry handling.  You might say the car is driven
'spiritedly' on the street so only getting 15k-20k miles out of the tires isn't
a problem.

They'll be 185/60HRx14 in case you need to know.

Dave

Come take a ride with me sometime..... (next time you're over in the states)

Dave

    Re .385
    
    	BBR and a certain Mr Lewis both recommend Pirelli P-Zero's. They
    wear quickly (10,000 miles would be all but impossible) but seem to do
    the business.
    
    	Rik
    
    PS If you haven't already done so put some Mobil One in - your engine
    will love you for it.
                    

�    	BBR and a certain Mr Lewis both recommend Pirelli P-Zero's. They
�    wear quickly (10,000 miles would be all but impossible) but seem to do
�    the business.
    
The way Rob drives, he's lucky to make it to the end of the driveway on a set of
tyres! :-)
    
�    PS If you haven't already done so put some Mobil One in - your engine
�    will love you for it.
                    
Wouldn't leave home without it!

I imagine Pirelli P-Zero's are not a particularly cheap tyre?  Mind you, over 
here in France they wanted �150ish for a pretty much bog-standard Dunlop!!

Cheers,

Faz.

    
    Faz,
    
    Thought I'd told you guys somewhere not to buy tyres in France, nip
    over to Switzerland where they are much cheaper. 225/50 16 MXV2 ~�300
    in France, 245/45 16 Aquacontact �250 in Switzerland, depending on
    current exchange rates which I have no idea about because Evry hasn't
    heard about newspapers for Brits yet! For me though, last set I bought,
    I saved money by going back to the UK rather than buy them here ....
    
    Haven't found the advert for 185 S01s yet, so next week?
    
    Colin (doing the weekly return to CH this evening and the weather as
           usual is sh%t!)

    Faz,
    	I found the best tyres for my Cossie were 215/50 front + 235/50
    rear P-Zeros. (�1,000 for the set 3 years ago), and yes, I did manage
    to get a good 10,000 miles out of them. The Racing Snail was chucking
    out over 300bhp though.
    
    	I wouldn't touch Bridgestones with a barge-pole, but then I am
    biased against them (the same as every other motorcyclist who has had
    their life endangered by that companies tyres!).
    
    Rob

    Rob,
    	What are you doing @ SBP ?
    
    		Rik

    Everybody got to be somewhere !
    
    Rob

>>>    to get a good 10,000 miles out of them. The Racing Snail was chucking
>>>    out over 300bhp though.			^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	I always thought that "Racing Snail" was the name for the Citr�en 2CV!
Always was where I come from.

		Malcolm - who's wife has a 2CV! (and I'm driving it today).

    Must admit I have never known anyone with a 2CV to know what they
    called them.
    
    I named the "Racing Snail" because of the number of times I would get
    folks glance at it, and see a Ford Sierra, and assume it was going to
    take a long time to get wherever we were going.
    Until we started.
    Just like in the filum.

Apparently, they run all sorts of racing events for Racing Snails, including a 
24 hour race!  This is all to be found through the 2CV club.  I gather that it is 
imperative for 2CV drivers to wave to each other when passing on the road too.
The club runs events such as "Fill a Ferry," meaning to fill it with 2CVs of 
course.

				Malcolm.

Huntingdon 2cv club run 2 hour convoys!

    
    There is a 24hr 2CV race at Spa which has an international entry.
    

    Just changed the front tyres on my Bitsofsushi Spice Wogan
    - 45062 miles !
    
    Is this a record?
    
    Mike.

    
    
    
    What is the Maximum tyre size that I can put on my 5 x 12 Minilites
    
    
    GaH
    

I'd say up to 185 or 195 and still have relatively straight sidewalls and all 
the tread fairly flat on the road.

Dave

    Anybody know anything about the new Michelin Pilot Series. I was going
    to fit MXV2s. Are they still current?
    
    Rupert

    Has anyone had experience with A4 Tyre Centre, Beresford Rd, Reading.
    
    I've got to replace a couple of wheels on the old car and they've come
    back with the best price so far.
    
    Angus

I use National and Motorway, they've always been prepared to beat A4s price on
an all-in basis (valves, balancing, VAT), and they give better service.

Dave.

AH! YES!  A4 tyre centre - the mob that fitted a milk float tyre (rated not to
be used above 45 mph) to the spare wheel on my van. I only found out a year
later - which was bit late....

Yes, I've used them.

-Steve

    I eventually went to National, just up the Basingstoke road. They were
    a little bit more expensive than A4 tyres, but alot cheaper than ATS.
    The waiting room was very civilised and the service very good. I also
    didn't fancy fighting the traffic to get to A4 tyres just off the
    Oxford road. For the record I bought 2 Uniroyal 195/65 R14 TRs for my  
    Espace. Prices were
    
    ATS	     �64.95
    A4       �55
    National �58.5
    
    Angus

        ATS on the Basingstoke Road give 10% discount to Digitals 
        employees.
        
        Sorry Angus if you didn't realise.
        
        Simon

 (12 inch wheels)  
             80      75      70      65      60      55      50 (aspect ratio)

    145 21.1339 20.5630 19.9921 19.4213 18.8504 18.2795 17.7087
    155 21.7638 21.1535 20.5433 19.9331 19.3228 18.7126 18.1024
    165 22.3937 21.7441 21.0945 20.4449 19.7953 19.1457 18.4961
    175 23.0236 22.3346 21.6457 20.9567 20.2677 19.5787 18.8898
    185 23.6535 22.9252 22.1969 21.4685 20.7402 20.0118 19.2835
    195 24.2835 23.5157 22.7480 21.9803 21.2126 20.4449 19.6772
    205 24.9134 24.1063 23.2992 22.4921 21.6850 20.8780 20.0709
    215 25.5433 24.6969 23.8504 23.0039 22.1575 21.3110 20.4646
    225 26.1732 25.2874 24.4016 23.5157 22.6299 21.7441 20.8583
    235 26.8031 25.8780 24.9528 24.0276 23.1024 22.1772 21.2520
    245 27.4331 26.4685 25.5039 24.5394 23.5748 22.6102 21.6457
    255 28.0630 27.0591 26.0551 25.0512 24.0472 23.0433 22.0394
    265 28.6929 27.6496 26.6063 25.5630 24.5197 23.4764 22.4331


(13)
             80      75      70      65      60      55      50
    145 22.1339 21.5630 20.9921 20.4213 19.8504 19.2795 18.7087
    155 22.7638 22.1535 21.5433 20.9331 20.3228 19.7126 19.1024
    165 23.3937 22.7441 22.0945 21.4449 20.7953 20.1457 19.4961
    175 24.0236 23.3346 22.6457 21.9567 21.2677 20.5787 19.8898
    185 24.6535 23.9252 23.1969 22.4685 21.7402 21.0118 20.2835
    195 25.2835 24.5157 23.7480 22.9803 22.2126 21.4449 20.6772
    205 25.9134 25.1063 24.2992 23.4921 22.6850 21.8780 21.0709
    215 26.5433 25.6969 24.8504 24.0039 23.1575 22.3110 21.4646
    225 27.1732 26.2874 25.4016 24.5157 23.6299 22.7441 21.8583
    235 27.8031 26.8780 25.9528 25.0276 24.1024 23.1772 22.2520
    245 28.4331 27.4685 26.5039 25.5394 24.5748 23.6102 22.6457
    255 29.0630 28.0591 27.0551 26.0512 25.0472 24.0433 23.0394
    265 29.6929 28.6496 27.6063 26.5630 25.5197 24.4764 23.4331


(14)
             80      75      70      65      60      55      50
    145 23.1339 22.5630 21.9921 21.4213 20.8504 20.2795 19.7087
    155 23.7638 23.1535 22.5433 21.9331 21.3228 20.7126 20.1024
    165 24.3937 23.7441 23.0945 22.4449 21.7953 21.1457 20.4961
    175 25.0236 24.3346 23.6457 22.9567 22.2677 21.5787 20.8898
    185 25.6535 24.9252 24.1969 23.4685 22.7402 22.0118 21.2835
    195 26.2835 25.5157 24.7480 23.9803 23.2126 22.4449 21.6772
    205 26.9134 26.1063 25.2992 24.4921 23.6850 22.8780 22.0709
    215 27.5433 26.6969 25.8504 25.0039 24.1575 23.3110 22.4646
    225 28.1732 27.2874 26.4016 25.5157 24.6299 23.7441 22.8583
    235 28.8031 27.8780 26.9528 26.0276 25.1024 24.1772 23.2520
    245 29.4331 28.4685 27.5039 26.5394 25.5748 24.6102 23.6457
    255 30.0630 29.0591 28.0551 27.0512 26.0472 25.0433 24.0394
    265 30.6929 29.6496 28.6063 27.5630 26.5197 25.4764 24.4331


(15)
             80      75      70      65      60      55      50
    145 24.1339 23.5630 22.9921 22.4213 21.8504 21.2795 20.7087
    155 24.7638 24.1535 23.5433 22.9331 22.3228 21.7126 21.1024
    165 25.3937 24.7441 24.0945 23.4449 22.7953 22.1457 21.4961
    175 26.0236 25.3346 24.6457 23.9567 23.2677 22.5787 21.8898
    185 26.6535 25.9252 25.1969 24.4685 23.7402 23.0118 22.2835
    195 27.2835 26.5157 25.7480 24.9803 24.2126 23.4449 22.6772
    205 27.9134 27.1063 26.2992 25.4921 24.6850 23.8780 23.0709
    215 28.5433 27.6969 26.8504 26.0039 25.1575 24.3110 23.4646
    225 29.1732 28.2874 27.4016 26.5157 25.6299 24.7441 23.8583
    235 29.8031 28.8780 27.9528 27.0276 26.1024 25.1772 24.2520
    245 30.4331 29.4685 28.5039 27.5394 26.5748 25.6102 24.6457
    255 31.0630 30.0591 29.0551 28.0512 27.0472 26.0433 25.0394
    265 31.6929 30.6496 29.6063 28.5630 27.5197 26.4764 25.4331


(16)
             80      75      70      65      60      55      50
    145 25.1339 24.5630 23.9921 23.4213 22.8504 22.2795 21.7087
    155 25.7638 25.1535 24.5433 23.9331 23.3228 22.7126 22.1024
    165 26.3937 25.7441 25.0945 24.4449 23.7953 23.1457 22.4961
    175 27.0236 26.3346 25.6457 24.9567 24.2677 23.5787 22.8898
    185 27.6535 26.9252 26.1969 25.4685 24.7402 24.0118 23.2835
    195 28.2835 27.5157 26.7480 25.9803 25.2126 24.4449 23.6772
    205 28.9134 28.1063 27.2992 26.4921 25.6850 24.8780 24.0709
    215 29.5433 28.6969 27.8504 27.0039 26.1575 25.3110 24.4646
    225 30.1732 29.2874 28.4016 27.5157 26.6299 25.7441 24.8583
    235 30.8031 29.8780 28.9528 28.0276 27.1024 26.1772 25.2520
    245 31.4331 30.4685 29.5039 28.5394 27.5748 26.6102 25.6457
    255 32.0630 31.0591 30.0551 29.0512 28.0472 27.0433 26.0394
    265 32.6929 31.6496 30.6063 29.5630 28.5197 27.4764 26.4331

    I'm taking my wife's car for MoT shortly and am concerned that the
    tread on the spare is borderline. What is the min legal tread depth ?
    Is it 1.6mm or 2mm ?
    
    Is it right that the car doesn't have to have a spare wheel for MoT
    purposes but if its there they check the tyre ?
    
    The bottom line is that I don't want to shell out for a new tyre for
    the spare as I may be selling the car later in the year.
    
    Royston                                                 

    My understanding was, if you carry a spare, then it has to be in good
    condition. If you don't carry one, then that's your choice, and there's
    not a problem.
    
    Dan$correct_me_if_I'm_wrong

    Does anyone know of a mega chunky tyre... size 195/70 14" ?? Something
    along the lines of a snow tyre for my dearest and nearests 505 estate?
     Being rear wheel drive and as long as a hearse makes the standard
    Michelins a tad hopeless in the snow... mud.... in fact anything that's
    not dry tarmac!  I need some brand names etc 'cos kwik fit are
    incapable of any kind of intelligent action.. and always try yo flog me
    a V rated somethingorother... 'cos its a GTI.!
    
    Dave
    
    
    Ps ta in advance.
    

    What tyres are on it now?

    Bit of a mixture actually, 3 different Uniroyals and a michelin mxv
    The spare is also an mxv, and they are the most worn ones.. I'd like to
    get the same kind on the rear axle at least.. makes me feel a bit
    better!  The three uniroyals are all different! One is an R180, one
    looks like the R180 but isn't reinforced .. and the other one is a kwik
    fit cock-up... My wife went in and said "I want another one like THAT"
    pointing at the R180.... so they fitted an H rated Uniroyal......
    
    But try getting them to give you a list of tyres of the size you want>>
    that are available!
    
    Dave
    

    Well, what size are on there at the moment?
    	       ^^^^

    195/70 14"
    

    OH right, sorry! I thought you wanted to put a BIGGER tyre on! Oh,
    right, well..... umm.... uhh.... sorry, no, I don't know of any winter
    tyres of that size. You could always try looking in one of the
    Kevin-esque Car Catalouges from RipSpeed, Demon Tweeks, etc. they offer
    a wide range of tyres and sizes (usually). Or else buy a mag like Car &
    Car Conversions, Fast Car or (dare I say it) MAX Sadness... umm, sorry,
    MAX Power.... there are normally adverts off places with a humunous
    selection of tyres (and wheels).
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    
    Presuming that the original noter is in the UK, I'd doubt _real_ snow 
    tyres are what is required, as they are usually softer than 'summer'
    tyres and also much noisier.
    
    Probably the best bet would be to talk to a tyre place which specialises 
    in tyres for 4WD vehicles (like the Frontera).
    
    However, for good wet weather grip maybe you could consider those tyres
    with a single massive groove down the middle. Continental have made
    them for a while and I saw an advert for a similar Goodyear recently.
    They usually have a name like 'Aquaspeed' or 'Aqua..something or
    other'.
    
    Mark

    So,  what is the minimum legal tread depth ?
    
    Royston

    Ahh.... errm... I think it's 1.6mm over a 2/3rd area of your tyre. Not
    sure about the depth bit, though. Sorry :-s !
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    Royston,
    
    
    	I've just replaced both front tyres on the 205, the guy said that
    there must be 1.6MM of tread on 75% of the tyre. Personally if the
    tread is below 1.6MM, on any part of the tyre, replace them. Remember 
    there only 4 tyres and 4 brakes between you and the car in front 
    - you have only 1 life.
    
    
    Norm 

    re.-1
    
    	Very good advice. I wouldn't settle for anything less than mint
    condition tyres on MY car (within reason).

    re.425
    
    Trouble is PHH/Hertz don't seem to care about safety and often won't
    replace a tyre until it gets to the legal minimum.
    
    In the past I have had to argue with them on the phone whilst at the tyre
    fitters.
    
    Ian.

          Can you buy the Nokia Hakkepallitta tyre over there? I'm using
     them, and they are one great tyre. The tread is very robust for
     snow or mud, really plows through water as well. They are T speed
     rates and 5-ply, handle like a dream at all speeds, and can use up
     to 44 psi of pressure. They are made in Finland, and if we can buy
     them in the States, you sure ought to be able to buy them in your
     country. I ran some year 'round on the front of my Taurus, and they
     are a great tire for any season, although they are mud and snow
     tires. 

          Mike

    re.423
    
    ahem... the UK is a big place and that noter lives in one of the, shall
    we say, less weather friendly places,than the rest of it. So I would presume
    that snow tyres are what he's after! :>)
    
    Bill

    Thanks Bill, for spotting the fact I live North of Watford!!8-))
    
    Snow tyres may well be a good idea, what sort of lifespan do they have
    ? They would end up on the car all year round (keep finding 13" wheels
    on the beach, but never 14") as I don't have a spare set of wheels to
    use for winter only.
    
    What about off-roadie type tyres? I don't suppose thet get made in a
    size as weedy as 195/70 14" !!? 
    
    I mayhave to splash out on a glossy mag and read the ads....
    
    Talking of the frozen North.. as you were Bill, we've had a TON of snow
    this week... Glenshee on Saturday was quite incredible... I had 2-3
    inches of snow on the car yesterday morning... and about the same in
    frost today!!
    
    I'm on standby this weekend... boo hoo!!!   Still, I have to work
    sometimes to be able to afford expensive things like tyres and trips to
    Glenshee!!
    
    Dave
    

> What about off-roadie type tyres? I don't suppose thet get made in a
>    size as weedy as 195/70 14" !!? 
    
Sure they do.  Check out some rally tyres.  What you'll find, though, is that
some are made for mud and are terrible in the snow and the snow tires just slide
around in the mud.  You'll have to do some asking to get a type that will suit
the conditions you expect.

The brands I remember are Colway (usually retreads, but very good), Michelin and
Pirelli.

I used to run Michelin X rally tyres on my rally car and found them basically
indestructable, great in dirt, fair in mud and absolutely miserable in snow.

Dave

    
    From what people say here (Munich) snow tyres have a limited life span
    compared with summer tyres as they are a softer compound (So I'm told).
    
    They certainly work well in giving extra grip in snow (although only
    studded tyres would help on ice - saw a car with studded tyres in Soll
    yesterday) and are what Dave described, ie Mud and snow tyres. The
    Colway remoulds may be a suitable and affordable choice for the car you
    talk of.
    
    Mark
    
    PS I thought everyone in 'the frozen north' had a Subaru Justy?!?! :^)

    Thanks for the tips guys....
    
    
    Although I think I could get a Subaru Justy in the boot of the 505!!
    8-))
    
    Dave$still_looking_for_ads_about_tyres!!
    

    
    
    I've had a bit of time on my hands today so I've been catching up on
    notes, the question on legal tyre limits never got answered, the
    concise answer is:-
    
    1.6mm min. over the central 75% of the tread area with the other 25% (12.5%
    each side) showing visible tread.
    
    Richard (young@wlo)

    Thanks Richard for the answer.
    
    Good to see you around in notes again.
    
    Royston

I'm about to buy a set of alloy wheels for my Mondeo from a specialist supplier. 
They also stock Yokohama tyres which, as far as I can tell, are not generally 
available from regular tyre stockists such as National Tyre Services.

These tyres are pretty cheap too:  �70-00 for a 205/50HR15 against nearer
�100-00 for a more well known brand such as Goodyear.

The question is, what are they like?  I know a few racing teams have used them
in the BTCC series, but I want to know why they're so cheap.  Is there a catch?

Anyone have any information?

	Bob

    
    Yokohamas are available from 'better' stockists. They tend to me for
    sporty vehicles, though, so Qwik Fit may not stock them (no demand from
    Volvo drivers! :^)).
    
    Generally, they are very good, but have a limited life due to the soft
    compound which gives them their impressive grip. If you want ultimate
    grip at any price, they're good, but you find that 1 set will be enough
    to convince you (and your wallet) that those expensive Goodyears were
    not such bad value after all.
    
    Mark
    
    PS I'm suprised they are cheaper than Goodyears. My experience is that 
    Goodyear and Yokohama are similarly priced a little below Pirelli and 
    Michelin, for 'sportier' tyres.

    
    I've been using Yokahama tyres on a golf gti for a couple of years.
    Initially that was the A008 tyres, now the 512(?) which has replaced 
    them. I had been finding wear rates to be a bit high, (around 8000 miles
    a pair at the front), but I then went for a pair of mitchelins which
    cost 20 quid more, and only got an extra couple of thousand miles wear.
    
    As for grip, the yokahams's do everyting that I need, and dispite an
    initial worry about the large inthreaded area on the A008, I had no
    problems in the wet.
    
    I'd be interested to hear other people's experiences of front tyre
    wear. I do not circulate the tyres between back and front, and have
    had 60000miles from one of the rear tyres.

    Yoko's are good - sticky, but wear quicker than 'your average' tyre.
    
    Considering the miles I do, I'd rather have the Yoko's (I'm fitting
    them to my new car) but you know what they say - YMMV !!
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

RE:                        <<< Note 17.439 by IE::MCCABE >>>
    
�    I'd be interested to hear other people's experiences of front tyre
�    wear. I do not circulate the tyres between back and front, and have
�    had 60000miles from one of the rear tyres.

    On my Pug 405 TD Estate my tyre wear is like this (Goodyear NCT2):
    
    Front: replaced at 16K
         : replaced at 48K
    Rear : 56K and still legal (just)
    
    Note that I don't pussyfoot about, but I never spin the front wheels.
    
    Laurie.

Does anyone have any experience with the P600 versus the Dunlop D60/M2?  I'm
only concerned with dry and wet weather handling.  Noise and winter traction
don't matter and tread life is of some concern, but if they last 20-25k miles
that's fine.

Thanks
Dave

    No experience of P600's , but if they're anything like P300's the
    Dunlop's would be a safer bet.
    I had some P300's on the front (very) briefly, and they felt like
    it was wet when it was dry, and WET when it was wet. Supposed to
    wear well which suggests a hard compound. I'll never have P-anything
    willingly again.
    
    They were the best looking and least grippy tyres I've every had
    FWIW
    
    Matt.

No, the P300s and much different than the P600s.  The P600 is like a cheaper
P700, sort of.  Better than the P6, maybe on par with the older P7.

I know the D40/M2 is a real sticky tire, but they don't make it in a size I can
use right now.  The D60/M2 is supposed to be the next step down, but I want to
make sure it's at least as sticky as the P600.

Dave

    
    I'd agree with the earlier note - The P600 is a style tyre - looks
    sporty, grips like a bar of soap!
    
    � make sure it's at least as sticky as the P600.
    
    Tractor tyres would probably suffice.
    
    Mark

Well, Mark, I have to defend the P600s a little bit.  They have worked quite
well on the Jetta, but not as good as the set of P7s I put on it once in awhile.
I'd probably 'stick' with Pirellis, but I'd need to jump to 15" wheels to get a
good selection of tires again, like the P700.

I wonder if they market different compounds for the UK vs the US?

The D60/M2s will be on the car early next week so I'll report back how they
handle.

Dave

ps - we just passed 140k miles on the Jetta.

    I was checking the tyres of our Mondeo last night and I noticed that on
    the rear set the tread is [slighty] more worn on the inside. Any
    suggestions as to how/why this has happened [I understand how you get
    uneven wear on the front set but not on the rear]? 
    
    Dave

    They haven't been swapped with ones on the front that were unevenly
    worn (but not noticeable) and now it is ?
    
    That's whats happened to mine (rear on a Mondeo).
    
    Graham

    RE: .448
    
    ## They haven't been swapped with ones on the front that were unevenly
    ## worn (but not noticeable) and now it is ?
    
    No I know this for sure because when we came to replace the 2 front
    tyres [after ~17,000 kms :-(] we took the one from the boot and bought
    1 new. 
    
    Dave

    re .447
    
    My Calibra used to exhibit the same tyre wear pattern that you
    describe. It was related to the rear suspension geometry.
    
    Clive

    RE: .450
    
    Clive,
    
    ## It was related to the rear suspension geometry
    
    Not sure if you mean that the wear can be as expected with some cars or
    that the rear suspension needs re-alignment?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Dave

    re .451
    
    It was expected due to the geometry.
    
    hth
    
    Clive

    You might ask to have the rear tracking checked, I had an escort
    once and didn't realise that they could set the REAR tracking!
    
    Matt

I finally had the time to have the Dunlops mounted on the Jetta and they really
do perform quite well.  The cornering traction is better than the P600s and the
acceleration and braking is as least as good.  The steering is also a lot
lighter, but then they run at 44psi instead of 35psi like the Pirellis.

The tread pattern (unidirectional) should also give me better wet traction, but
it hasn't rained since I had them mounted.

The price wasn't bad either - $311 including mounting, balancing and all the
disposal charges for the old tires.

Dave

    What is the conversion factor between BAR & PSI ?
    
    Rik

    pretty close to 1:15
    
    C

    For my own + other people future reference try :-
    
           http://www.bridgestone-tyres.com/charts.htm
    
    or in text format :-
    
    	http://www.bridgestone-tyres.com/chartxt.htm
    
    Rik
    
    Which gives :-
    
    
    Here are a few charts you may find handy. Why not print this page off
    and keep for future reference? If your browser can handle tables,
    try this page instead. 
    
    Speed ratings
    =============
    
                    Type            Max Design/Test Speed
                                    MPH      KM/H
                    -------------------------------------
                    J Rating         62       100
                    L Rating         75       120
                    M Rating         81       130
                    P Rating         93       150
                    S Rating        112       180
                    H Rating        130       210
                    V Rating        150       240
                    Z Rating        150+      240+
    
    NB: HR = H rated radial; VR = V rated radial; ZR = Z rated radial
    
    Tyre Pressures
    ==============
    
                            BAR     PSI
                            -----------
                            1.5     22
                            1.6     23
                            1.7     24
                            1.8     26
                            1.9     28
                            2.0     29
                            2.1     30
                            2.2     32
                            2.3     33
                            2.4     34
                            2.5     36
                            2.6     37
                            2.7     39
                            2.8     40
                            2.9     42
    
    Load Index Ratings
    ==================
    Motorcycle owner's handbooks often list load index ratings. The load
    carrying
    capacity of a tyre should be sufficient for the intended application
    when
    properly inflated. Listed below are load index ratings and capacities
    in kilograms.
    
            LI      Kg      LI      Kg      LI      Kg      LI      Kg
            -----------------------------------------------------------
            0       45      25      92.5    50      190     75      387
            1       46.2    26      95      51      195     76      400
            2       47.5    27      97.5    52      200     77      412
            3       48.7    28      100     53      206     78      425
            4       50      29      103     54      212     79      437
            5       51.5    30      106     55      218     80      450
            6       53      31      109     56      224     81      462
            7       54.5    32      112     57      230     82      475
            8       56      33      115     58      236     83      487
            9       58      34      118     59      243     84      500
            10      60      35      121     60      250     85      515
            11      61.5    36      125     61      257     86      530
            12      63      37      128     62      265     87      545
            13      65      38      132     63      272     88      560
            14      67      39      136     64      280     89      580
            15      69      40      140     65      290     90      600
            16      71      41      145     66      300     91      615
            17      73      42      150     67      307     92      630
            18      75      43      155     68      315     93      650
            19      77.5    44      160     69      325     94      670
            20      80      45      165     70      335     95      690
            21      82.5    46      170     71      345     96      710
            22      85      47      175     72      355     97      730
            23      87.5    48      180     73      365     98      750
            24      90      49      185     74      375     99      775
    
    Tyre Size Conversion Charts
    ===========================
    
                            Street Front Tyres
                            ------------------
                            Metric  Imperial
                            80/90   2.50/2.75
                            90/90   2.75/3.00
                            100/90  3.25/3.50
                            120/80  4.25/4.50
                            120/90  4.25/4.50
                            130/90  5.00/5.10
    
                            Street Rear Tyres
                            -----------------
                            Metric  Imperial
                            110/90  3.75/4.25
                            120/80  4.50/4.75
                            120/90  4.50/4.75
                            130/80  5.00/5.10
                            140/80  5.50/6.00
                            150/80  6.00/6.25
                            150/90  6.00/6.25
    
                            Off-Road Front Tyres
                            --------------------
                            Metric  Imperial
                            60/100  2.50/2.75
                            70/100  2.75/3.00
                            80/100  3.00/3.25
    
                            Off-Road Rear Tyres
                            -------------------
                            Metric  Imperial
                            80/100  2.50/3.60
                            90/100  3.60/4.10
                            100/100 4.00/4.10
                            110/100 4.00/4.50
                            120/100 5.00/5.10
    
    
    PS Thanks Laurie.

    I'll soon be in need for a couple of new tyres for the front end of the
    car due to standard wear and tear. And now a third after my wife drove
    a little too close to a kerb while trying avoid a dipstick who decided
    to cut a bend.
    
    Come to think of it this will probably mean we'll have to change all
    four, and have the remaining good rear tyre as the spare, as the tread
    height could be slightly different on the rear end :-(
    
    Basically I'm planning to drive over to the UK mid July and so I'm
    wondering if it's worth replacing the tyres then rather than getting
    them over here in the Valbonne/Antibes/Grasse area - maybe they're
    somewhat cheaper in the UK!
    
    I've currently got Firestone Firehawk 690 - 195/60 R14 [86V] radials
    fitted. 
    
    Does anyone have any idea as to their approx cost over in the south UK
    area say at one of these quick fit type places?
    
    Also if you do change all four in one go do you get any form of price
    reduction or do you have to ask before hand and see what they say...?
    Does Digital have any discount deals with any of these places...?
    
    Thnx,
    
    Dave

    Dave, for the best prices around contact Micheldever Tyres (see 359.*).
    
    Their number is (0)1962 774437
    
    I use Kwit Fit for tyres and exhausts and they always match
    Micheldever's prices.
    
    Royston

    Re:.459
    
    Royston,
    
    Thanks - I'll give them a call.
    
    Dave

>.458   due to standard wear and tear.
    
    More tear(ing around Valbonne) than wear Dave? :-)
    
    Martin.

    Ahh Martin - it's Rosie not me that mostly drives that motor