Conference vmszoo::rc

    I have the SS-40 (with an old K&B 60 in it...  talk about performance!)
    
    My biggest hint for the SS-40 or SS-20 is to stay away from 4-stroke
    engines.  
    
    I tried to put an OS-61 4stroke in mine.  First problem is that
    it SERIOUSLY decreases the amount of room for fuel tank and radio
    system.  Makes for a tight fit!  Second problem was 1/2 builder
    error, 1/2 directions error...  Be VERY careful on the firewall
    alignment.  
    
    See, what happens is this...  The firewall is pre-cut and has a
    bevel for the chin block.  But you have to move it back to accomodate
    a 4 stroke.  Well, I moved it back, following the bottom contour
    which lowered the engine below the thrust line.  The directions
    should have pointed out that a space should be placed between the
    bottom of the firewall and the chin block.
    
    Once I got that all fixed, I finished up the nose.  I was again
    left with 0 (zero) room to get at the fuel line, carb, ect.  It
    was also incredibly hard to attach/remove the engine and mount.
    
    
    I finally gave up on it all and moved the firewall forward and
    installed the 2 stroke.  Flies GREAT now.  Pretty fast, too!
    
    Great Planes needs to improve their addendum to the instruction
    book for installing the 4-stroke.
    
    
    The only other problem is the same as many other kits, glueing the
    canopy on.  It doesn't quite fit right and as a result regularly
    comes loose.
    
    Overall though, a great sport plane.
    
    cheers,
    jeff
    

    Dan,
    	I have now built three Super Sportsters (20, 40, 90) without
    using a wing jig.  If you have a FLAT building surface, you don't
    need one since the wing is not tapered.  It sits on the main spar
    and they provide you a shim to place under the trailing edge to
    keep things straight.
    	The hardest thing to do well building the fuse is to get the
    rear section pulled together and glued.  You end up having a major
    bend right past the rear former right at the back of the cockpit.
    I think that excess CA in this area made the wood too stiff to bend
    well.  Keep that in mind when you glue the doublers on the fuse
    and use amonia to make the wood soft in this bend area.  Also, when
    you put in the turtle deck floor, remember that the fuse is UPSIDE
    DOWN.  Someone whos name I won't mention, put the turtle deck floor
    in the wrong place and had to debond it.  I might have done the
    same thing if I hadn't been warned.  For some reason, I kept forgetting
    that the fuse is built upside down.
    	One more thing I found is that you need to keep the tail feathers
    light or else have to add some weight to the nose for balance. 
    All three of my Sportsters came out slightly tail heavy even though
    I was warned to be careful of that.  I would suggest putting everything
    in place before covering and checking out the rough balance.  If
    it's going to turn out tail heavy, try to remove some weight from
    the back before covering.  
    
    You'll love how the Super Sportster flys!  Looks good too. (Don't
    use the Baby SH** paint on this nice bird)
    
    Charlie (Super Sportster) Watt
    

    Jeff,
    	I used RC56 to glue on my canopes and I have had zero problems
    with them comming loose.  I tape it in place first and then with
    the fuse upside down, I run a bead of RC56 along the edge allowing
    it to run under the edge a little.  This stuff is GREAT.  It stays
    flexable and dries clear and it doesn't attack the plastic at all.
    I then cover the joint with 1/4 inch trim tape.  After a season
    of flying, the trim tape is comming off the side, so I will have
    to replace the tape, but the canope to fuse joint is still solid.
    I forgot, after the glue dries, I remove the tape that was holding
    the canope on and add glue in those areas.  The only disadvantage
    to this technique is the time it takes for the glue to set.  Plan
    on taking a day to get the thing stuck on and ready for tape.
    
    Charlie
    

    Dan,
    
    Got yourself a real nice kit there...  One "problem" I've heard
    many people hem and haw about is that they(all too often) come out
    tail heavy.  Keep that tail *light*!
    
    /Brian

        Re:< Note 813.5 by WMOIS::JORGENSEN >



>    Got yourself a real nice kit there...  One "problem" I've heard
>    many people hem and haw about is that they(all too often) come out
>    tail heavy.  Keep that tail *light*!
        
                Put something  heavy  up  front,  like  a  Saito  80 four
        stroke.  I  didn't  need  to make any modifications and the 16 oz
        tank fits like a glove.

                      _ 
                     / |
        |  _====____/==|
        |-/____________|
        |    |        o \
             O           \ 
                          O
         Hang in there! o_|_
                          |
             Anker      \_|_/

        Re:< Note 813.6 by CURIE::ANKER >
        
>                Put something  heavy  up  front,  like  a  Saito  80 four
>        stroke.  I  didn't  need  to make any modifications and the 16 oz
>        tank fits like a glove.

 
The younger DECies can't afford *heavy* powerplants like those! :')  We just
have to keep our tails light....


Brian 

    I used RC-56 too..  Oh well, have to give it another try.
    
    re wing jigs..  If you have one, by all means use it.  It took me
    all of 1 evening to build the entire wing, dihedral and all (with
    the help of the owner of the jig.  I have never had a straighter
    wing.
    
    cheers,
    jeff
    

Dan,

        I glued mine canopy on with CYA, and its  never  come off
        or  even given a hint that it wants to.   I  painted  the
        interior with  black  epoxy  paint,  and let this overlap
        where the canopy will be mounted for a better grip.  Then
        I dyed the canopy a  light  brown  tint.    I used rubber
        molding and CYA'd it in place  all  around  the bottom of
        the canopy.  Once it dried, ran a bead of CYA  around the
        molding, positioned the  canopy  in place, and pressed it
        on.  I then covered  the  plane  with  monokote,  and  it
        leaves a real nice finishing touch.    I like to use this
        method on most of my planes, since the molding will never
        come off like trim tape. Its worked out real well.

       
        Steve
        
        BTW:  Mine is  also  non-standard  color  scheme.  I just
        needed to be different...
        

    
    Sportster 40 - three years old and still flies very nicely.
    Powered by O.S. 45 abc w/tp.
    
    /Brian

    
    
    
    Dave Hartwell wins the prize.... 
    
    w/tp = with tuned pipe
    
    
    Snowman,
    
    I think you saw the plane on the shelf when you came over. 
    
    /Brian

    I've flown my SS20 for a full season and love it.
    
    The SS40-Bipe is about to go on the bench as soon as I get
    it cleared and get a fresh piece of sheet-rock for the top
    (great surface to pin to). I'll probably put my .45FSR in
    it (thinking of using a .60, is that too much?). I also
    plan to install an extra piece of ply on the bottom behind
    the wing saddle to take screws for my floats - I want to
    try the Bipe off the water.

    Be careful if you dye the canopy, they say to "follow the
    directions on the RIT dye" but I got the water very hot
    and the canopy started to melt.  Next time, I'm going to
    use lukewarm water only, and also I won't cut out the
    canopy until after it's dyed, that will help keep it from
    curling.

    As Charlie said, the turtle deck goes on TOP of the fuse,
    which is built upside down on the plans. I don't think I'm the
    only one who put it in wrong and had to undo it, but I was silly
    enough to document this goof by trying out my new camera on the
    half-built plane just after I had mis-installed the deck.

    Another small mod I did in the 20 was a result of Bill Lewis's
    experience - I beefed up the landing gear mounts in the wings,
    bracing them against the leading edge. Bill managed to rip out
    his gear a couple times, and mine has survived some pretty hard
    landings with no damage other than bent gear wires. I don't know
    how applicable this advice is to the 60. The gear on the Bipe
    is mounted to the fuse just in front of the wing, and should be
    pretty strong.

    Dave

        Re:< Note 813.15 by LEDS::HUGHES "Dave Hughes (LEDS::HUGHES) NKS1-1/E3 291-7214" >

                I did the same thing with the turtle deck.  I would claim
        you haven't done it properly if you didn't!
        
                I endorse Dave's  suggestion  about  the landing gear.  I
        had to open my wing and redo them.  The trick it to make the thin
        ply doublers as big as possible (I made some new ones) and ensure
        that they are very snug against  the landing gear blocks.  It's a
        lot easier to do them right the first time!
                      _ 
                     / |
        |  _====____/==|
        |-/____________|
        |    |        o \
             O           \ 
                          O
         Hang in there! o_|_
                          |
             Anker      \_|_/

    Ditto the advise about the landing gear... I've now got my wing
    apart to fix um'
    

Just a note from a non super sportster owner.

Sure is obvious why you guys like this plane.  If you build according
to directions the turtle deck comes out upside down and the landing
gear don't hold up.  Seems like everyone flying has about twice the
recommended power plant.  It isn't scale and can't fly at Rinebeck.

Don't flame me - I'm just poking fun.

Speaking of Wing jigs.  I use mine all the time and really should
write to the company and order some more of those red plastic brackets.
I never seem to have enough.  Just worked on the BJ's 2nd bottom wing
last night and with 18 ribs per side I was several brackets short.

In a week or so I hope to start the top wings and they have 26 ribs per
side - anyone out there want to loan me a bag of rib brackets for a couple
of weeks.  Also I had the same problems with the fuselage brackets.
Every fuselage I have used them on I was short a few.

Oh yes - I have yet to ever use the dihedral capabilities of the Jig.
I tried a couple of times but it is almost impossible to set up the
correct angle and manage to get the center section lined up.  You usually
have to sand the center to get a good flat match and putting it on the jig
just makes that difficult.

Wouldn't it be nice if some of the kit manufactures actually put the wing
jig holes in the ribs and had alternate instructions in case you
have one of these (most popular) jigs.  About the only wing that I haven't
made on a jig lately was the Big Stick 20 cause I unconsciously pushed
out all the die cut lightening holes from the ribs before I was smart
enough to realize that I needed them to mount in the jig.  Some other wing
I drilled the wing jig holes and didn't think about where the spars and
webbing went so after getting it all set up there wasn't much I could do
except zap the spars and leading and trailing edges.  You really need to
get those webs installed on the jig - that is the insurance that after
you remove it from the jig that other things will not warp it too much.

Also those holes in the ribs are the cat's meow for insuring that you get
air flow from rib bay to rib bay and don't puff the wing up like a balloon
when you cover with MonoKote and an iron.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    A couple of hints:
    
    	On the gear blocks, before you glue any of the hardwood, make
    sure you sand them and get that shiny finish off of them or the
    epoxy won't bond very well.  Use the SLOW cure epoxy on all of the
    landing gear stuff.  THe fast 5 minute stuff doesn't bond to the
    hardwood well at all.  Remember that every bad landing is going
    to stress the landing gear blocks and do everything possible to
    get them in there solidly.  I use lots of epoxy and ply pieces
    and I don't worry too much about extra 1/4 oz of weight here.
    By the way, I have had my SS20 for 2 full seasons and my ss40 for
    1 1/2 full seasons and I haven't had a gear block failure.  I have
    had to remove the gear wires and straighten them several times on
    both planes due to landing mishaps but I have never had to go into
    the wing.  This is due to sound advice from Bill Lewis after he
    had this problem with his SS20.
    	On my SS20, I covered the wing after installing the gear.  This
    made a nice looking job, but I can't remove the gear wires without
    cutting the covering.  On the SS40, I covered the wing including
    the gear slots and then installed the gear.  I can remove it easily
    by just removing the little straps that hold the gear to the blocks.
    I would do it that way so that you can pull the gear for straightening.
    It's easy to rearrange the gear especially on bumpy landing surfaces.
    	I also have a suggestion to help shape the leading edge (a major
    pain).  I took a piece of 2 by 3 about 6 inches long and drilled
    a hole endwise all the way through it.  The hole diameter should
    match the leading edge curve.  Then cut the block down the center
    of the hole and glue on a piece of sandpaper.  THen rough shape
    the leading edger with a razer plane or a sanding block with 60
    or 80 grit.  Final shape using the special block and you will get
    a nice consistent leading edge.  It acts like a plane to get a nice
    true constant radius all along the wing.  I did this on both my
    SS40 and SS20 but my SS90 came with preshaped leading/trailing
    edges.
    
    Charlie
    

    Sheeze !  If your so worried, why don't you cut a lite-ply rib to
    replace the balsa one the gear block is glued to, and instead of
    glueing the block to the rib, you could use some small machine
    screws!

    
    I have an SS20 w/OS .25FP in the shop to be repaired/refinished
    and an SS40 w/OS .45FSR in active duty.  I have been very pleased
    with both.  I think I can take credit for bringing the SS enthusiasm
    to our group by demonstrating its great flying characteristics _AND_
    its ability to withstand major abuse (such as full throttle dives
    into trees) with minor damage.  A great bang-around sport plane.
    
    I learned (the hard way) not to put dope over super coverite without
    a good primer (epoxy sounds the best from what I've heard here).
    That's why the SS20 needs refinishing.  I may ultracote it like I
    did the 40 since it's a bang-around plane anyhow.
    
    RE: The gear block questions...  Charlie's advice pretty much covers
    it.  I'm not sure if he mentioned gluing the blocks strongly to the
    ribs but I would recommend that too.  The gear takes a lot of abuse and
    it's better to have the wire bend than to have the block break free.  Of
    course if you go in hard enough you're going to do some damage no
    matter how well you reinforce it; I split the _main_ block in half
    one time!  Charlie's gear has held up fine, but if you've seen the
    way he greases it in most of the time you understand why.
    
    RE: Canopy... I don't recommend using cya to put on the canopy,
    the fumes can permanantly cloud the interior.  I learned the hard
    way and now believe that RC56 and patience are your best bet.  I
    used Sig Epoxolite putty and made a small fillet around the canopy
    to seal it, then ultracoted around that.  Worked great.
    
    RE: Wing jig...  are you guys talking about the Great Planes jig
    that's in Tower for somewhere around $20, or is this a more fancy
    unit?
    
    RE: Shaping the leading edge...  I use a different technique.  Take
    a few sheets of 150 grit sandpaper and using rubber cement glue
    them down onto a very flat and smooth table, carefully butting the
    edges together and avoiding bumps at the edges.  Now hold the wing
    half with both hands and using uniform pressure sweep the wing side
    to side on the paper to get the leading edge close the the proper
    shape.  The final sanding is done using light front to back sweeps
    keeping uniform pressure and rounding to final shape.  When you
    do the other half of the wing keep checking it against the first
    half so they will mate properly.  I also use this "sanding table"
    to sand the wing ribs.  I like having both hands on the thing I'm
    sanding as opposed to using a T-bar or long sanding block.  I
    got nice results on my CAP 21 using this method.
    
    RE: Tailheaviness...  I echo the suggestions to keep the tail light
    and don't take too much material off the nose  - keep checking CG
    while you build.  Knowing this tendency ahead of time should keep
    you out of trouble.

    RE: Kay's mudball...  I think he's jealous that people are talking
    more about Super Sportsters than Berliner-Joyces.  Maybe we should
    put a few zingers into his topic guys !!! :-)
    
    Bill

    I didn't think anyone used the REAL jigs anymore ;')
    
    I've got the same setup (wing and fuse) and I'm not using it in the
    near future (house projects keeping me occupied).  Give me a call for
    arrangements DTN 235-8459 (DSG1 in Westford)
    
    I drive Southbridge (exit 9 Mass Pike) to Westford everyday so a 495
    belt dropoff isn't out of the way.
    
    Jim

    Dan,
    	I would use the 30 minute epoxy and sand the ply and hardwood
    well.  The slower stuff penetrates better.  I added triangle doublers
    to the sides of the torque blocks against the ribs.  That's the
    only additional material I added over that shown in the plans.
    When the gear block is stressed, most of the load is on the torque
    block where the wire is held from moving backward.  THat's where
    you want to add strength.  By the way, this is not really a weakness
    of the design but a shortcoming of any low wing sport plane with
    the gear in the wings.  It won't break under normal conditions,
    but given enough chance, we all make less than perfect landings
    on less than smooth surfaces.  I don't think that you will find
    a plane that is built to take abuse any better than this one.
    THat's not straight in crashes but just the normal knocking around
    that seems to happen if you fly it for a season or so.  (SH** HAPPENS)
    I've sheared wing bolts (1/4-20) twice with no wing or fuse damage.
    Any other planes I've had the mounts tore out before the bolts broke.
    
    Charlie
    

    Re .20, .22, .26, .27 (got all that??)
    
    I went back and looked and find that it's Kay that needs the jig not
    Dan Snow. The offer still holds, Kay, if it's an Adjusto Jig that
    you're using. I tried to mail directly to you but "K" wasn't a known
    node. I've got my jug set up on a board that I C clamp to my bench
    and/or move as needed. Easiest to just let you borrow the whole thing
    and you can swap the parts back and forth as you need. With 2 complete
    sets you might be able to use the remaining parts to do the fuse at the
    same time since there are fewer bulkheads. Let me know.
    
    Jim Reith (HANNAH::REITH)
    DTN 235-8459
    

>    I'm not worried about Kay, but I do wish someone would short out
>    the power leads to a humanoid lifeform sometimes referred to as
>    a Randy Cohen!  ;8^)


    Oh, Dan,

    You're still pissed about my comments Re. Cinder blocks and PT
    Electrics, aren't you ?


    Randy

    Dan,
    	I recessed the mounting screws through the fairing blocks as
    shown on the plans. (SS40,20,90) I assume that the SS60 would be
    the same.  The SS40 has one screw in front and two in the rear but
    the SS20 and SS90 have dowels in the front and two screws in the
    rear.  I guess either way is ok but the three screw method was easier
    to install.  I used a sharpened brass tubing punch to make the holes
    in the fairing blocks.  I installed the screws and then put the
    tubing over the heads and started the punching.  Then I removed
    the screws and finished the job.  I got it centered perfectly that
    way.  I then treated the holes with CA to fuel proof them since
    it is not really possible to cover the inside.  I also always use
    CA to add strength to the threads made in the ply hold downs for
    the wing.  I tap the holes, add thin CA, and then run the tap back
    through to cut threads in the CA.  I would recommend doing that
    to keep from ruining the threads if you take the wing off often.
    THe SS60 would be too big for me to handle with the wing on.
    	By the way, one of the tricks that I found to get the wing saddle
    fitting really nicely is to put a piece of paper on the wing center
    section and then put the wing in the saddle with a piece of sandpaper
    facing the saddle sandwiched between.  THen move the sandpaper back
    and forth in the saddle until the wing fits perfectly.  Make it
    a loose fit to allow for the layers of covering material.  It's
    easy to get it too tight!  I have been converted to using clear
    silicone sealer instead of foam tape to seal the wing saddle joint.
    I put a piece of saran wrap on the wing and apply a bead of sealer
    on the saddle and then install the wing.  After it sets, I reomve
    the wing and trim off the excess on the outside.  Works great!
    Remember to use the saran wrap or you have a permanent wing
    installation.
    
    Charlie
    

    Dan,
    	What kind of control rods/cables are you planning to use?  I
    used solid rods in plastic tubes on my SS90 and I am really happy
    with the lack of slop in the controls.  THese came with the kit
    and have one end threaded for a celvis.  I got some of those gold
    sullivan clevises that come with a jam nut and put a z-bend in the
    servo end.  Since this as a fairly fast flying plane, it is important
    to get the elevator and ailerons slop free to prevent flutter. 
    If you do use the rod in tube setup, make sure to anchor (Anker)
    them well at each bulkhead as shown in the plans.  Try to get as
    straight a run as possible and run the tubes up to within an inch
    or two of the servos.  Whatever you do, don't use the plastic rods
    that sullivan makes.  THey change length in a big way with temperature.
    I had to rip them out of my SS20 because they drove me crazy having
    to adjust rudder and elevator trim every time the temperature changed.
    You still want to have me cover your wing at the DECRCM meeting?
    I'm not very good in front of cameras, but I'll give it a go if
    too many people don't laugh or threaten to leave.  I hope someone
    else can be doing something else to give people a choice of what
    to watch.  Eric must have someting clever that he could demo like
    how to round the edges of control surfaces the way he did on the
    Panic. (Ha!)
    

    RE .35..... Charlie, can you explain what you mean by solid rods
    in plastic tubes. What are the materials, where can you get them?
    I'm building a Kougar, and do NOT want to use golden rods. I bought
    some wooden pushrods a while back, however I would like to understand
    what your doing better.
    
    
    							Dave
    

    Sure,
    	The solid rods are steel with threads that are compatable with
    the steel or nylon clevises and the tubes are plastic, the same
    as used with the golden rods.  Mine are red.  I think they are sold
    by dubro but I'm not sure since I haven't actually bought them.
    THe other alternative to golden rods (garbage!) is braided steel
    cable with soldered ends.  These come in several guages with the
    heavier stuff perfectly adequate for elevator and rudder on 40
    sized ships.  Another alternative that I may start using is pull-
    pull cables of the thinner braided type.  This is what most of the
    pattern guys use but it's hard to get them supported in glass fuses.
    Pull-pull cables can be quite thin and light since they don't have
    to work in compression.  The setup is just slightly tricker than
    solid wires because you have to get the geometry symmetrical on
    both sides of the control surface and going into the servo to prevent
    tension from increasing or decreasing when the surface moves.  You
    need two clevises on the surface end to allow for adjustment.  BY
    the way, Tower sells the solid rod in plastic tube setup.
    
    Charlie
    

    Dan,
    	I think that the blue outer tobe may be too large to confine
    the wire.  I would try to find the smaller red tube.  Otherwise,
    if the tube goes around any bends, the cable will slop in the tube
    and allow some slop in the controls.  I am sure that the whole set
    is available from Tower.  Ask for the ones that come with the 
    Sportster 90 kit.
    
    Charlie
    

    Concerning the discussion on pushrods, has anyone used composite
    pushrods?  It would seem that one could gain the benefits of different
    systems by combining them.  There was an article in RC Modeler (Jan
    '89) describing the mating of fiberglass arrow shafts and short pieces
    of Goldenrods with the idea that the fiberglass would be less prone to
    cause trim changes and control slop, while the Goldenrod would afford a
    smooth exit from the fuselage.

    A piece of stiff wire, bent in a U-shape is hot glued into the servo
    end of the arrow shaft.  Then a rod, similarly bent, and threaded at
    one end is screwed into an inner Goldenrod (no longer than 6") and hot
    glued into the other end with part of the Goldenrod positioned inside
    of the arrow shaft.  A 1/16" hole is drilled in the middle of the arrow
    shaft to allow heated air to escape, so that the glue won't run out. 

    An outer Goldenrod is used to guide the inner rod through the fuselage
    in the normal manner, with care taken so that no more than 3/4" of
    inner rod is ever exposed.

    Is this a viable solution that is worth the trouble?

    Later,

    Don

    RE: .39
    
    Dan,
                                     
    	Fisher RC (Framingham) carries the long length steel wire, with
    either one threaded end, or fully threaded. I've bought lengths up to 24".
    You might want to call them first, since I havent been by there in the
    last year or so (moved way up to NH).
    
    	Steve
    

    Dubro #102 is what you guys have been talking about. It's a steel
    pushrod inside a plastic tube. It can take gentle curves, but not
    nearly what a goldenrod or braided steel will do.

    I used them in my Kavalier and SS20 and plan to use them in the
    SS40-Bipe. I have had no trouble at all with them. In the SS20
    they were especially slick bringing them out the sides of the
    fuse. I used a sharpened brass tube the same od as the plastic
    tube's od to drill a hole at an extreme angle in the side of
    the fuse. Then I stuck the plastic outer tube through the hole
    and trimmed it flush with the fuse side.

    And, yes, because it's got some flex in it, you need to be sure
    to support it at each bulkhead back through the fuse. Do that
    and it is very solid with no play at all.

    Dave

    Okay, I'll admit it!  I have a Sportster .20 in my collection waiting
    for its queue on the assembly line.
    
    Has anybody noticed that there is a kit review of the .90/1.20
    Sportster in the Frebruary 1989 Flying Models.  Great review with a few
    notable modifications:
    
    1.  The O.S. 1.20 Surpass is mounted inverted.  Looks great! 
    Personally I'd side mount it and use cheek cowls like a 1/4 Midget.
    
    2.  Seperate servos for each aileron - great idea for models with large
    wing spans.
    
    3.  Color scheme based on a 1930's air racer.  Blue and cream with
    scalloped design on the wings!
    
    Just thought you midght like to know!
    
       --|--             Happy (con)Trails!
        (O)             
________/ \_______       Scott Cox
    

    Dan,
    
    	I also have a Super Sportster 60, and I was looking at making
    a modification to it(this is before I even opened the box). Since
    you've been working on yours, what do you think of installing 
    retracts? Would it be easy to do? The fuse looks like it could hold
    the extra equipment. What do ya think?
    
    
    Norm
    

    	I have never seen one with retracts, but I agree that there
    should be enough room to do it.  You would have to redesign the
    gear mount stuff in the wing to make room for the retract mechanism
    and wheels, but it's doable.  If you do it, I'd like to see how
    it works out.
    
    Charlie
    

        Re:< Note 813.50 by LEDS::WATT >

                I would  worry  about  reducing the strength of the wing.
        The bottom leading  edge  sheeting is what prevents the wind from
        folding up.  The  retracts  would  necessarily  have  to  be  cut
        through this sheeting.  Some strips of carbon fiber will possibly
        compensate for the holes. I agree there's plenty of room.
                      _ 
                     / |
        |  _====____/==|
        |-/____________|
        |    |        o \
             O           \ 
                          O
         Hang in there! o_|_
                          |
             Anker      \_|_/

        Re:< Note 813.51 by CURIE::ANKER "Anker Berg-Sonne" >

                Another idea  is to install shear webbing between the top
        and bottom spars.
                      _ 
                     / |
        |  _====____/==|
        |-/____________|
        |    |        o \
             O           \ 
                          O
         Hang in there! o_|_
                          |
             Anker      \_|_/

    I've never installed retracts, but if I were I'd replace the
    spars with harder wood like basswood or fir. The sheer web is
    a good idea. I'd make sure the boxes around the retracts were
    solid and didn't present any weak points.

    While building the top wing on the SS40-Bipe I put much stronger
    bracing around the cabane holders than called for in the plans.
    The plans show using 1/4" triangle stock around the ply strut
    holders, and on each side of the rib above the ply. This makes the
    ribs (and attached 1/16" sheeting) carry the entire load. I'm not
    worried about in-flight stress as much as hard landings (I've seen
    a lot of bipes cartwheel or flip on their back). Instead of the
    1/4" tri-stock I used 1/4 x 1/2 sticks as bracing all around,
    including 1/4 x 1/2 sticks as rib doublers on both sides of the 3
    ribs to carry the load from the rear strut up to the main spar and
    back to the trailing edge, and used 1/4 x 1/4 to fill in between
    the front strut and the leading edge, so both struts are solidly
    connected to the main structural members. I then used my dremel
    tool to cut the edges back to save a bit of weight, but it's still
    about 10x more beefy than the plans. In a powered plane I much
    prefer using a little more power to compensate for added weight
    for structural strengthening. It's all sheeted over so you'll
    never see it, so nobody'd know if I didn't confess it here!

    Dave

    Dan,
    	I can't wait to see your creation.  This pilot you discribe
    sounds a little like that Desert Rodent fellow.  Maybe we can have
    a joint maiden flight with your SS60 and my SS90.  I have been stuck
    at 99% complete since I brought it to the meeting in December. 
    I have to install the throttle linkage, onboard glow system, and
    my new PCM receiver.  I now have my old am airtronics receiver in
    there.  I've missed a couple of great opportunities for maiden flights
    in nice weather this past weekend.  I must admitt that I sort of
    expected to have to wait for spring to get a test flight.  Silly
    me.  If it really gets winter like this weekend, I will finish it
    instead of flying.  
    
    Charlie
    

    Well, Charlie, knowing you, I probably have a chance to get
    in on this multi-maiden-Sportster scene. I doubt you'll
    actually get around to finishing the 90/120 until about
    March. That will give me time to catch up with you on my
    40-Bipe.

    The top wing is built, no wingtips, no sanding. One bottom
    wing panel is built, the other just needs sheeting on one
    side. Since Mr. Weatherman is predicting Saturday to be
    a high of 17� with winds gusting to 50, I would venture to
    say I probably won't be flying tomorrow and can spend some
    time building.

    So, if you continue to hold off the maiden flights, maybe
    we can do a triple: SS/MiG60, SS90/120, and SS40-Bipe!

    Dave

    Dan,
    
    Hey! The Super MiGster sounds great and I can't help but feel a
    bit flattered at the many inferences to the ol' Rat.  I'd sure
    appreciate a pic or two, particularly showing the Rat-related details
    you described.  Gracias, amigo.  

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    I finished both bottom wing panels for the SS40-Bipe, and am
    ready to install the aileron horns (the last thing before
    joining the two panels). I found two left-horns in the bag
    of parts!

    After 2 minutes of careful self-deliberation, I took one of
    them, put it in the vise, and twisted it 180� with pliers.
    Minor straightening, and I now have a left and a right horn.

    Evenings this week are all booked until Friday, so I expect
    it to go pretty slow. That's ok, my fiberglass tape for the
    center joint should arrive later in the week from Tower Hobbies.

    But the good news is that it's a gorgeous day again, and I'll
    be taking the SS20 out at lunch time.

    Dave

>    By the
>    way, how does the gear go on on the bipe?  Is it on the fuse like
>    the Aeromaster?

    The gear goes on the fuse in front of the wing, probably like
    the Aeromaster. It is a double-wire gear, with a main wire and
    then a smaller brace wire tied and soldered to it.

    I'm going to take your advice and glass top and bottom. I'll also
    probably go the full 6" width instead of the 4" they recommend;
    I've had trouble cutting that cloth, the edge frays horribly
    if you cut it.

    I got the wing halves joined together last nite. There may be a
    temporary disruption of the build process due to an unplanned
    repair that needs to be made to the SS20, but you'll hear about
    that in another note.

    Dave

    Not much activity in this note recently. Here's a couple items.

    The CRRC meeting this month featured an SS40 and K&B 45 as the
    raffle prize. Another Sportster soon to be in the air.

    Repairs on my SS20 are going along smoothly. The Davis Diesel
    shock mounts are installed for engine mounting. These stick out
    about 1/2" behind the firewall, so tank mounting requires some
    thought.

    I got one of the Sullivan flexible tanks (just like their other
    tanks, but made of thinner plastic that can squeeze into tight
    places). I got an 8 oz tank in, without having to shave the
    bulkhead any thinner to make it fit (I did that that last time,
    and the bulkhead failed on impact). I glued a piece of lite ply
    to the front of the tank to protect it from being punctured by
    the engine mounting screws. I also have a piece of foam rubber
    between the tank and the firewall that covers over the screws.

    Then I'll get back to the SS40-Bipe. I'm seriously considering
    modifying the bottom wing for flaps. I'm thinking of cutting
    the ailerons about 1/3 of the way out from the fuse, using the
    existing aileron horns for a flaps servo, and using flexible
    steel cables (like throttle cable) for the ailerons.

    Any suggestions on the best way to do this? How much of the
    length of the aileron should I use for the flaps?

    +---||---+
    |___||___|
       |  |
       |  |
+------|  |-------+
|      |  |       |
|______|  |_______|
   *   |  |   *
    \ \|  |/ /         Dave "Spin-it-in" Hughes
---------------------

    Dan,
    
    You just jogged my memory that I forgot to give the MiGster pictures
    to Kay so I'll just drop 'em in the mail.    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    This I gotta see. I have practically a whole roll of film in my
    camera (35mm) that I'm perfectly willing to donate. I'll even pay
    for the developing. Should be able to get some real nice stills
    that you can have blown up. Please let me know when a time and date
    are set.
    
    
    Steve

    I know, it's kinda like "drop" zone. I'll also grab a couple
    of valium from the wife so your knocking knees won't distract
    Charlie.
    
    Steve

    Eric,
    
    	Don't worry about Mr. Snow. The second he gets there the truck
    will be stuck in the mud.
    
    Steve

    Eric,
    
    Sorry but I don't have a thing on tape of local flying...don't own
    a video cam, unfortunately.  However, a better bet anyway'd be to
    get a copy of Kevin Ladd's tape of the 1988 1/8 AF Spring R/C Scale
    Fly-In.  Only problem there is Kevin hinted he may've lost track
    of the tape while it was being distributed to interested noters.
    I'll appeal for him at this time by saying, if someone out there
    is in possession of this tape, you've certainly had it long enough...
    please return it to Kevin Ladd ASAP.  Thanx!	    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

re: a few replies back

Thanks for the compliments on the SS20 repair job, but I really didn't have
much choice, the nose was splinters and I had to rebuild it completely. You
can see the seams in the monokote behind the canopy and down the sides of
the fuse. The ply splints are hidden inside. I also got to improve on the
original model by correcting some of the mistakes I had made (like melting
the canopy during dyeing - the new canopy looks much better than the 
original).

And, just like the original, I decided I didn't like the placement of the
charging jack so I moved it and there is now a monokote patch over the
original hole.

As far as watching it fly, I've had 2 flights on the repaired model so far
and both of them were shaky shakedown flights. If that's all you've seen,
you haven't really seen it fly yet. I still had a problem with a kink in
the pressure line to the fuel tank, and I need a good day to get it in trim.
Hopefully next week will bring some good weather and I can get back in form
with it.

Now... back to the SS40-Bipe which has been on hold for 2 months...

Dave

    I'll be there with camera in hand. Have to get some good pictures
    for those "enlargements". You know.....MEMORIES!!!!!!!!
    
    
    Boy, I can't believe how cruel I'm being today. This isn't like
    me. I think I hung around with Eric too long Tuesday. Bloody awful.
    
    Steve

    Dan, Steve, Dave, etc,
    	Maybe I should bring my three sportsters and we could get a group
    photo.  Pappa SS90, Mamma SS60, and babies SS40 and SS20.  If Dave
    could get his Bipe done, we could redo the Great Planes ads.
    My SS20 hasn't flown in over a year.
    
    Charlie
    

    Well, the latest weather for Sunday is sunny, temp in the 50's
    and 60's. Don't know about the wind yet. Not sure what the field
    conditions will be either after all this rain. At least it will
    be good for pictures if nothing else. I'm open to whatever.
    
    Steve

It's probably going to be a bog on Sunday. I'll try to get out
too, if possible, my SS20 still needs a good shakedown cruise.

As far as a family portrait goes, the SS40-Bipe still has a long
way to go. I'm hoping for May, but it may be June (also hoping that
it doesn't get put on hold again in order to repair anything!).

Should I bring the floats, just in case?

Dave

    Oh well, you probably would have had to cancel anyway. The more
    the day goes on, the worse the weather reports are for the 
    weekend. The rain that was supposed to end late tomorrow morning
    is now predicted to go into tomorrow night.
    
    I'll bet there were several people who PURPOSELY went out and
    washed their cars.
    
    Steve

    Dan,
    	How come you didn't want ch 20?  If you got ch 20 everyone would
    land when you get ready to fly and you'd have the air to yourself.
    I guess I will spend tomorrow cycling batteries and playing with the
    'Streak.  I want to see what current I'm running.
    
    Charlie
    

    Just wanted to tell all of you Sportster Fanatics that Frank Benson and
    I saw a very nicely done Sportster last Saturday.
    
    We visited a club in PA and saw a Sportster 60 with an OS FS-61 four
    stroke in it.  That non-Surpass 61 seemed to pull it around with quite
    a bit of authority, I was surprised!  Anyway, thes bird had the engine
    mounted inverted and it was painted in WWII German desert camo - pretty
    neat!  The engine was actually lower in the nose than recommended so it
    had that dropped snoot look of a Bf-109.
    
                --|--             Happy (con)Trails!
                 (O)             
          _______/ \_______       Scott Cox
    

    Last night while cleaning my SS-40 up a bit, I noticed that the
    rudder seemed a little loose...
    
    To make a long story short, the gapless hinge that I used was pulling
    out (no, i did not glue the end).  I can't tell for sure that it
    was pulling out or stretching, but in any case I don't trust it
    anymore.  I will be replacing it this weekend with "real" hinges.
    
    (BTW - I am also adding an Afta-muffler to my K&B 60.  Currently
    it just has a Granite State "one size fits all .60 size engines"
    muffler and it is a little loud.  Somehow I don't think I will loose
    too much performance, afterall a 60 in the SS-40 is a little hot
    to start with...
    
    Perhaps some lunchtime I will come down and we can put the sound
    meter to it before and after..
    
    Hope everyone keeps dry this weekend!
    jeff

    Since I've received no knowledgeable advice about the subject, I've
    decided to scrap my idea of putting flaps on the SS40-Bipe. I was
    thinking of cutting the inner 1/3 or so of the ailerons and making
    them into flaps. But in the biplane configuration, I'm afraid of the
    implications of flaps on the bottom wing and not the top wing. I've
    seen bipes with flaps on top, but I haven't seen very many bipes and
    don't remember seeing one with flaps & ailerons on the bottom wing
    and no controls on the top wing.

    So, unless one of you is sure that it's something I should go ahead
    with, I'm going to stick with the stock setup.

    Dave

    RE: .112
    
    
    Pardon my ignorance, but wow what?????????????
    
    
    Steve

    Ya, I read it. Congrads. Whish I'd seen it.
    
    It's amazin what hitting the next unseen key will do fer ya.
    
    Steve

    Sunday flying was nice!!  Al Ryder once again learned it does not
    pay to believe the weathermen.  He did not finish his Kadet repairs
    as it was not going to be a good weekend to fly.  
    
    I got 3 flights in on the SS-40.  1 stunt really woke me up though.
    
    I was trying my hand at some knife edge flying.  I had not really
    tried it before with this plane.  I put it on its side and give
    it the rudder.  The rudder seemed to be in-effective and I started
    to lose altitude.  So I level the plane back out and give it some
    up elevator.  Problem was, I leveled out inverted and was now doing
    a split-S.  Not a big problem had I been up a couple of hundred
    feet.  Luckily for me there was a gap between the trees on the far
    side of the field and the woods as I pulled out of the bottom of
    my split-S!  YIKES!
    
    Anyway, this all leads to my question...  My SS-40 with the K&B
    .60 is "significantly" nose heavy.   In the knife edge, when I 
    apply rudder, it does not appear to have any effect...  ie I lose
    altitude.  Could the balance be that far off that the rudder has
    no effect??  
    
    To add to this confusion, when flying straight and level, I apply
    full rudder.  The plane does not turn but the nose drops!  At slower
    sppeds (t/o and landings) the rudder is effective.
    
    Comments/suggestions??
    
    thanks,
    jeff
    
    

re -.1
>    Anyway, this all leads to my question...  My SS-40 with the K&B
>    .60 is "significantly" nose heavy.   In the knife edge, when I 
>    apply rudder, it does not appear to have any effect...  ie I lose
>    altitude.  Could the balance be that far off that the rudder has
>    no effect??  
    
>    To add to this confusion, when flying straight and level, I apply
>    full rudder.  The plane does not turn but the nose drops!  At slower
>    sppeds (t/o and landings) the rudder is effective.
    
>    Comments/suggestions??

    Well, I'm no expert, but the laws of physics indicate that if you're
    nose heavy the plane will want to rotate to the nose down position,
    and you must compensate by providing opposite lift behind the C.G.
    I'm sure that will do something to rudder effectiveness on knife
    edge. How much rudder deflection do you get with full deflection?
    Sportsters I've seen (Charlie's and Bill's .40's for example) tend
    to barely knife-edge if you have enough power, but expect to see
    it with the nose REAL high (looks more like an X).

    For the second one, it's possible you're causing a stall. Sportsters
    tend to stall and snap easily, probably due to the large control
    surfaces and big throws that we use for snappy stunts. On my 20,
    full elevator causes a stall and/or snap roll. Rudder + nose heavy
    may lead to the same thing.

    I would suggest that you get the CG back where it should be and see what
    happens. I like to run it just a tad forward of the recommended position
    on my SS20. 

    I'm going to put a .61 in my SS40-Bipe, and was going to work on
    lightening the tail, but I don't think it will be necessary!

    Dave

    Re: .119
    
    Sounds like a classic case of pushrod flex with it being less effective
    at higher speeds.

     Thanks Dave...  That's basically what I figured too.  Just asking
    to see if I missed something...
    
    Full throw is to within 1/2" of the elevator...
    
    re .121, That's what I thought at first.  But it happens in both
    directions, and there can't be flex in the pull direction.
    
    cheers,
    jeff
    

    If you're going to knife edge, you're probably going to want the
    full rudder throw to almost touch the elevator! If you have a radio
    with dual rates, you can put the high rate on the full throw.

    I'd also like some of the other Sportster folks out there who are
    more experienced than I to give you their advice, too. Charlie,
    Anker, Bill, where are you?

    Dave    

    My first thoughts is that the super sportsters have a limited amount
    of fuse side area at the nose. They typically taper down to a spinner
    and the canopy is set back. This limited fuse side area at the nose
    isn't good for knife edge flight. Add to this a nose heavy condition
    and I can see where it might need a lot of rudder deflection.
    
    
    Tom

        Re:< Note 813.123 by LEDS::HUGHES "Dave Hughes (LEDS::HUGHES) NKS1-1/E3 291-7214" >

        Dave,
        
                I have  been  told, and have experienced myself, that too
        much rudder throw  causes  the  rudder  to  stall  with the exact
        opposite effect of what  you  want.   The tick is to find exactly
        the rudder throw that will give you maximum effect.  I belive its
        much less that full throw.
        
                      _ 
                     / |
        |  _====____/==|
        |-/____________|
        |    |        o \
             O           \ 
                          O
         Hang in there! o_|_
                          |
             Anker      \_|_/

    i found my p47 lost much less altitude during a slow roll when
    i moved the cg back.
    
    on a sig kobra i had a few years ago, i had the cg so far forward
    that it glided like a rock on dead-stick landings.
    
    so, i'd move the cg back (to where plans indicate) and see what
    happens.
    
    kevin

    My SS40 does not knife edge all that well either.  I have to enter with
    the nose up and use lots of rudder and FULL throttle.  It will then
    hold altitude but not climb in the least.  I have a Cap 21 that knife
    edges well after moving the CG back and cranking in rudder.  This plane
    will climb in knife edge.  Tom's comment about the nose shape has alot
    to do with the lack of lift and Dave's suggestion to move the CG back
    and add rudder is the right thing to do.  If you have a 60 on there,
    you should have enough power but you should get the CG where it is
    shown on the plan if you want good snaps and knife edge performance.
    You will find the elevator gets much more sensitive as you move the CG
    back.  Be ready for the reduction in stability.
    
    CHarlie (SS20,SS40,SS90)
    

    Eric,try this...
    
    One trick if your ship shows signs of to much dihedral is to install
    a small(and I mean small) finlet to the tip of each wing at the
    tip. Shaped kind of like a 20% semetrical airfoil with the high
    point at 15% of the length. You want a fin that will be about 4inches
    long and 7/8 inch high like half an airfoil. It can be made from
    ply. Slit the wing and glue in place. If after installation the
    plane shows signs of insufficient dihedral the trim off some of
    the finlet. Continue this process until the ship shows proper
    dihedral.
    Also if you think insufficient fuse side frontal area is your problem
    take a bubble canopy and install it to the front chin block on the
    ship and then go fly. See if it helps. It's a quick solution to
    find out if that's the designs problem. Understand also that what
    your asking of the design is pushing it's design criteria. I 
    personally like to keep a simple fixed geared muffled pattern ship
    around for fooling around.  I'm finishing up one now. Hopefully
    I'll have it for the May Fly-In.
    
    
    Tom

    In rereading my last reply I forgot to say that the finlet is only
    installed on the bottom of the wing.
              
    
    
    Tom

    I was talking to Harvey Thomasian last year about knife edge flight,
    and he suggested that adding small, fixed vertical fins on the nose
    will do a lot for knife edge. That makes sense to me. You need
    lift to fight gravity, and in a knife edge, it's mainly the fuse and
    the vertical stab giving you lift. Since you need to push it into
    a nose up attitude to compensate for reduced lift, the tail is
    actually giving NEGATIVE lift (ie, pushing the tail down to pull
    the nose up). Adding small fins to the nose will give positive lift
    at that time.

    I haven't tried it but would be interested to see if anybody has.
    I'm sure it looks a little strange, but if that's what it takes to
    add a new dimension to your flying, what the heck? It's sure a lot
    easier than building another plane!

    Dave

RE: .131

    Dave, what you say is true but, just be sure you don't make the
    vert. fins on the nose too large.  If you do, the plane will become
    aerodynamically unstable.  Imagine an arrow flying through the air
    backwards - that's not too aerodynamically stable.  :-)

                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |            Happy Landings!
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|              - Dan Miner
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |     " The Earth needs more OZONE,
                      |      /                       not Caster Oil!! "    
                      |_____/

    re -.1

    Right you are! Note the use of the word "small". I would think
    1" to 1.5" tall triangular fins top and bottom would help a lot
    and would not hurt stability significantly.

    Dave

    Dave,

    If you're gonna add verticle fins, why not do it at the CG instead.  The
    lifting effect there would be much more useful than having it out at
    the nose of the plane, and you wouldn't have to worry about instability.
    If the Angle of attack got too high, they would just stall.

re:                       <<< Note 813.135 by LEDS::COHEN >>>
                           -< alternate suggestion >-


    I think part of the idea is to counter/assist the rudder: Counter
    the rudder by providing up-lift to offset the down-lift of the
    rudder (for that, placement at the CG would be ok), PLUS assisting
    the rudder in keeping the nose up - that's where the fins should
    be in the front.

    Mind you, I've never done this, and probably never will, I was just
    repeating a bit of folklore I'd heard from an experienced modeller. 

    Dave

    I have to side with Eric (much as I hate to  ;b^} ); knife-edge
    flight is a function of airspeed/power and rudder.  No other wild,
    exotic mod's are necessary if both of these factors are available
    in adequate supply.    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    We're off the Sportster subject, but I put in the first flight of my
    Aeromaster since installing the round cowl that came with it.  I also
    added some tail weight.  Anyway, the knife-edge performance is greatly
    improved over what it was without the cowl and a tad noseheavy.  I
    think that the cowl ie helping the fuse act like an airfoil.
    
    Charlie

    Back to Sportsters - to follow up on the discussion that's taken
    the DECRCM note so far off the topic (Anker's abuse of his Aeromaster),
    Charlie pointed out that Anker has significantly over-powered the
    Aeromaster and that may have contributed to almost self-destruction
    when attempting a powered flat spin.

    Since I have a Super Sportster 40-Bipe under construction, and since
    I will be putting a Supertiger .61ABC in it, I'm taking to heart
    Anker's experience. I just discussed with Charlie means of beefing
    up the cabane, as well as other areas of the plane. I had already
    significantly enhanced the cabane mount in the top wing, so that
    should be ok. The mount into the fuselage is pretty skimpy, though,
    and I'll be looking to strengthen it. I think I'll also add a
    diagonal strut across the front and rear of the cabane (similar to
    the wire Anker broke but thicker wire. I'm also going to beef up
    the landing gear mount (which seems to be a bit beefier than the
    Aeromaster design, but still a weak spot). I've added a ply block
    behind the wing to take screws for a rear gear mount for attachment
    of floats.

    Dave Hughes

        Re:< Note 813.139 by LEDS::HUGHES "Dave Hughes (LEDS::HUGHES) NKS1-1/E3 291-7214" >

                I agree  with  Charlie's  and Dave's contention that I am
        overstressing a sound  design.    The  .91 may soon be moved to a
        plane with more basic  integrity.    How about a Panic with a .91
        attached to a tuned pipe!  The old K&B .61 could then be moved to
        the Aeromaster.  The only problem  is how to get the 1 lb of lead
        out of the tail!

                      _ 
                     / |
        |  _====____/==|
        |-/____________|
        |    |        o \
             O           \ 
                          O
         Hang in there! o_|_
                          |
             Anker      \_|_/

    Dave,
    		I'd opt for some interplane struts about one or two
    rib bays from the end of the wings. A simple set of ply modeled
    after Pitts struts might look quite smart and be very functional.
    With these struts I'd go with the std. cabanes that come in the
    kit.
    
    
    Tom

    The Super Sportster Bipe flew today for the first time. Details of
    the flight are in note 929.106. General comment is:  It flies like
    a Sportster. Snap rolls are a snap. 

    Here are a couple final details of the modifications I made, which
    were very few:

    The engine is a Super Tiger .61 ABC. This is pretty big for a plane
    designed for a 40. I moved the firewall back per the instructions for
    mounting a 4-Stroke, with little problem. I had to use thin stock
    for the cowl cheeks (I think I used 1/4" sheet stock, the kit included
    3/8" or maybe thicker).

    I used the Davis Diesel shock mounts. They seem to perform well here,
    the engine has a noticable vibration at idle, which the rubber mounts
    absorb and none of it gets transferred to the fuselage.

    I beefed up the cabane strut mounts in the fuselage. They give you these
    dinky plywood blocks, and I about doubled the size of them.

    I noted here earlier that I beefed up the cabane mounting blocks in the
    top wing. I also added lots of screws to the aluminum plates that are
    used to hold the top wing on. The way it's designed is that the cabane
    fits into two grooved plywood blocks recessed in the bottom of the top
    wing. There are then two narrow aluminum plates that fit over the cabane
    wire, and are flush with the sheeting on the wing. They use two #2
    screws in each end of the aluminum plates. I didn't like the idea of the
    top wing being held on with just eight #2 screws (two in each corner),
    so I drilled in more holes all along the aluminum plates, so there are
    now 20 #2 screws holding the wing on. I didn't know how I was going to
    get those inside screws installed, though, until yesterday I found some
    cute little #2 cap screws that were perfect. I sawed off an allen wrench
    and got the screws installed.
    
         ____________  original screw holes __________
        |                                             |
        |           --- additional holes ---          |
        |          |            |           |         |
        V          V            V           V         V
    +-----------------------------------------------------+
    |   o          o            o           o         o   | Cabane plate
    |__                                                 __| in top wing
     __|                                               |__  (2 are used)
    |                                                     |
    |   o          o            o           o         o   |
    +-----------------------------------------------------+

    I thought I would come out nose heavy with the big motor so I installed
    the battery in the back of the box - a big mistake. It came in tail
    heavy, so I had to move the battery up under the fuel tank and it is now
    in good balance.

    I used a 14oz Sullivan flex-tank, which squeezed into the tank
    compartment just fine (it may only hold 13 oz now!).

    The top wing is swept back and the bottom wing is straight. This looks
    a little strange in the air. It will take some getting used to looking
    at a biplane after flying the low-wing Sportster 20 for a year and a
    half.

    Now, we need another Sportster Family Portrait including the newest
    members of the family. I believe we can round up representatives of
    every size Sportster.

    I'm about to try floats on the Sportster Bipe - should be interesting
    with that bottom wing close to the water. I'll let you know how it
    works.

    Dave Hughes

    Well, I think that I can now safely rename my poor old SS-40.. to
    the "Super Gadget 40"...
    
    I started out with a SS-40 with a K&B .60 in it.  It is certainly a
    pretty hot plane and flies pretty well...  But then I got a little
    bored and wanted to try some other items....So...
    
    First I added a smoke system.  I had tried my "electronic switch" built
    from an old servo, but this didn't work very well.  I have replaced it
    with a servo and micro switch.  At this point, I am happy with the 
    mechanical setup, but I am still trying combinations of smoke fluid...
    
    The plane is now 100% full, there is no room left in it...  From the
    firewall I have.
    
       |Fuel tank|receive|1+3 servos|flight battery|smoke tank|smoke pump|
       ^                                           ^	                 ^ 
       |-firewall                         Trailing-|               Horiz-|
    	                                  edge of wing             stab
    
    There is not any more room, period...
    
    This thing glides like a rock at this point.  Landing speed is very 
    fast, I would need brakes if I ever flew off of pavement... And along
    comes this note on flaps; and I say to myself, that is just what this 
    planes needs!!!
    
    Installing flaps was a breeze.  I simply cut the existing ailerons
    for 1/3 for flaps, 2/3 for ailerons.  I then installed a mini servo in
    each wing panel and ran the servo wire back through the holes I had
    drilled for the wing jig.  I made a "Y" pushrod and connected it
    between the flaps and the old aileron servo.  Popped in my 7 channel
    receiver, recovered a few access holes and I was ready to fly!
    
    I got a chance to try it out yesterday.  Works like a champ!!  I need
    to add just a little more throw to the flaps.  Once I measure out just
    how much I have, I will report it here.
    
    I would strongly recommend building any SS with flaps for 2 reasons...
    
    	1. - With the aileron linkages outside of the plane (like a pattern
    		ship), they are VERY easy to adjust and are much more 
    		positive than the torque rods...
    
    	2. - Flaps are fun!  
    
    It is an easy modification that can be made quickly (2 evenings) to
    and existing plane or even more quickly to a plane that is not yet
    covered.
    
    cheers!
    jeff
    
    

    
    	Does anyone have experience with the new G.P SuperSporster 90/120.
    I am interested in how it handles and any comments on building.
    
    Regards,
    Bob G.

    Bob, 
    
      Charlie Watt has one. I'm sure he will have something to say about
    it! I think he has a OS 120 surpass in it.
    
    Tom

    
       HELP, we need some creative idea's to move the CG forward in a
    SS-40 a friend of mine is building. The plane has an FP-40 installed
    (very light). My solution would be to put a 70 surpass on the front,
    but he isn't interested in a large cash outlay.
      Things he has tried so far:
    
        - moved the reciever battery to the optional forward location
    
        - moved the servo tray forward 3-4 inches
    
        - added a 2 ounce higley nut to the front.
    
        - moved the reciever forward 2 inches
    
      The plane still comes out about 1" behind on the CG. The plane has 
    yet to be covered, and the tailwheel itself is not installed, so it
    will probably get worse than better.  I have even suggested putting
    lightening holes in the rear stabs!
    
       Any creative idea's from other SS-40 owners, or is he doomed to
    to a 5 ounce nose weight?
    
                                                    DW2

    
    Try using a metal engne mount instead of a fiber filled one. also
    use a metal spinner.
    
    Tom
    
    Do make lightening holes.

    Get a "longer" engine mount so that the engine can be moved further
    out.
    
    Use a Higgley's Heavy Hub under, or in place of a spinner. The hub
    alone is 2 ounces. I would think that that, along with being able
    to move the engine out should do the trick.
    
    
    Steve

    
    
    Already have a 2 oz. Higgley nut on the front. Eric has also suggested
    moving the engine forward. We will investigate that possibility. The
    nose on the SS-40 is closed in, so it may require some work. Eric also
    recommended a snuffler.
    
                                              Thanks for the ideas,
    
                                                               DW2

    I have a 4 ounce Higley humongous hub, but I hope I never have to use
    it.  I hate to think of the whipping loads on the shaft if an imbalance
    were to ever develop.  That sucker is _long_ as well as heavy.

    After several reworks and a stearable Tailwheel I had to add 1 pound (!)
    of lead to the nose of my SS60. It flew very fine afterwards, I even
    didn't notice any difference. Without the lead there was a BIG
    difference. 
    
    Meanwhile my SS is gone - tried a slow roll in 15 feet of altitude -
    couldn't wait for upside position when I pulled....
    
    
    	Bernd

    
       Thanks for all the help. By using all the suggestions given in
    this note, we should be able to get some kind of satisfactory result.
    If not, we may even resort to the idea's that Eric suggested!
    
                                                        DW2
    
                                             

    Dan,
    	The other thing you could try is cutting out some holes in the stab
    to lighten it.  This is where the most damaging weight is.  I sanded
    mine quite a bit because I expected it to come out tail heavy after
    several friends had that problem.  I also built mine with the engine as
    far forward as possible.  It is a bitch to move the engine after you
    have built the nose around it, so that's a painful option if he's
    already done with that.  If it still isn't covered, I would try to get
    more weight out of the tail.  Don't fly it tail heavy if you don't want
    surprise snaps!  I fly mine slightly behind (about 1/4-1/2 inch) the CG
    shown on the plans because I want better snaps.  I flew it for a year
    with more weight in the nose (Higley Nut) before I got dareing and
    pulled it off.  Knife edge and inverted flight improved with the more
    rearward CG, but it stalls more abruptly if I slow it down too much on
    landings.  By the way, it's still my favorite plane.
    
    Charlie
    

    
    
        Thanks for all the suggestions on getting the C.G. straigtened out.
    The plane made its maiden voyage yesterday. It flew great with a 2 oz
    Higley nut which put the C.G. about 1/4" behind the recommended
    location. The plane initially seemed nose heavy, put some elevator 
    adjustment took care of that. The owner is transitioning from a PT-40,
    and he felt that it felt just about right.
         Another (problem?) appeared occasionally during the flights. The 
    airplane would seem to ocsilate in the yaw axis during straight and
    level flight. We checked the rudder linkage, and there is some play at
    the servo wheel, but is seemed to be about the same as most other
    planes. He does have a fairly large gap between the stab and rudder,
    and I was wondering if that was a contributor. 
    
      - Questions: Is this commmon for Super Sportsters?
    
                   Has anyone else had a similar problem with other
                   aircraft, and how did you fix it?
    
    
                                   Appreciate any help,
    
                                                   DW2
         

    Dan,
    
    	Depending on the wind conditions, my Fiesta will do a little tail
    waggle. I think it's pretty common.
    
    Steve

    I experienced the same with my SS60 when I flew real fast. My HB60 PDP
    with tuned pipe pulled to much with full power and the plane got real
    nerveous. When throttling to 1/3rd it flew real smooth.
    
    
    	Bernd
    

    DW,
    	I never noticed a yaw wiggle on my SS40 except when I wiggle the
    rudder.  I'd look for a misbehaving rudder servo and try to seal the
    gap if it's more than 1/16 of an inch.  Any big gaps can cause
    instability.  At full speed, the rudder on my SS40 is not terribly
    sensitive.  I have had problems with one of my servos that caused
    hunting of the elevator - not much fun.
    
    Charlie
    

    Charlie,
    		I've seen this wiggle condition on a number of pattern
    designs. WHY????? beats me!  The tipo is an interesting candidate.
    Most every tipo I've seen fly wiggle at the top of a loop as they
    slow down.  I've also seen ships wiggle at the bottom of a split
    "S"  and in level flight. 
    
    
    Tom

    
         He does have a wide gap between the rudder and the fin. I also
      thought that may be the cause of the problem. We flew 3 flights on
      Sunday, and the wiggle didn't appear at all. 
         The wiggle wasn't occuring at full speed, so I doubt that we were
      fying too fast.
    
         Thanks for all the input, I will recommend that he fixes the rudder
      gap.
    
                                                     DW2
    
                                       

    Hi people,
    
    I am just progressing to my first low wing plane and wondered if the
    SS40 would be suitable ? If so, what size motor ie would a OS 46 SF be
    a bit over the top ?
    
    Also, are these kits easy to build, and good quality ?
    
    Any help would be appreciated.
    
    Thanks, Rob.
    
    P.S. Merry Christmas all.

    
      I will try to help with the engine part. The O.S. 46 would be a good 
    match for the plane. I am currently helping a friend with his SS-40
    (his first low wing plane) and he has a plain FP-40 in it. The
    plane has marginal takeoff performance, but flies ok at altitude. The
    other advantage of the O.S. 46 is the weight. It is a couple of ozs
    heavier than the FP-40 which helps correct the typically tail heavy 
    condition the SS_40's seem to have.
      There are several other notes dealing with other possibilities to
    correct the tail heaviness.
    
                                              Dan W.

    If it balances and the throttle works, go for it. You can always
    throttle back and the extra will be nice once you're comfortable with
    the plane. SuperSportsters are nice looking planes with good
    characteristics. An UltraSport 40 would be another good choice. LOTS of
    instructions and all the ones I've seen have been great quality. The
    two I've flown tracked beautifully and one had plenty of power (a .60
    ;^)

    The .46 is *not* overkill.  Mine flew great with a beat up k&b .60 in
    it!  Others at the field have various .45s that work really well.
    
    Great Planes makes very good kits.  Read through the last 163 replies
    ofr accolades and warnings..
    
    Have fun!
    
    jeff
    

    
    Thanks guys, looks like the way to go !!
    
    I've read ALL the other notes and it sure sounds like a great plane.
    
    Rob.

    Rob,
    	You'll love it!  The two weaknesses are the gear mounting blocks
    and the fact that they come out tail heavy 9 times out of 10.  (well at
    least 4 times out of 5)  I learned from a friend's experience on the
    gear mounts - they get twisted out of the wing if you don't secure
    them SECURELY on a hard landing.  You will be making a few of these if
    it's your first low winger.  The torque block that the gear wire goes
    through must be glued on with long cure epoxy and not the 5 minute
    stuff.  Also, I recommend adding some additional triangle stock
    supports on both sides of this block and to the main block and the
    ribs.  This worked perfectly for me.  I've bent the wire gear without
    damaging the blocks.
    	On the tail heavyness, replace any rear balsa that's too heavy and
    sand the tail surfaces liberally.  Think light in the tail all the way,
    and you will come out ok.  Also, put the engine as far forward as
    possible.  ALso, put the nicad under the fuel tank in the nose.
    
    Good Luck and Happy Flying,
    
    	Charlie
    

    Ok guys, now you have me hooked . I'm getting a ss20 in two weeks.
    had to order it from a local hobbie shop that matchs Tower prices.
    (not bad , Tower prices less ship&handle) Ok , cutting to the chase,
    What color schemes are you using on this bird. I was thinking of goig
    with a kinda PT14 pattern  , yellow wing , blue fuse , white rudder 
    with red stripes. 
    
    thanks
    
    Bob not in phila. anymore!
    

    Has anyone built the SS90-120?  Same as the other ones just
    bigger..(think)....any inputs on this bird?
    
    John

    John,
    	I have the SS90/120 with the OS120 on it.  It flies very nicely.
    The only thing I would change is the tail wheel assembly.  The one that
    comes with it is too wimpy for a 10 lb plane.  I broke mine making a
    quick turn after a too hot landing.  The performance with the 120
    Surpass is great.  I fly most manuvers at 1/2 throttle - more in the
    verticle and less comming down the back of big loops.  I did mine in
    red and white just like the Tower Catalog Ad.  Oh, the other problem I
    have with it is ground clearance for the big prop.  Great Planes
    recommends a 16-8 prop with this plane/engine combo, but there is not
    sufficient ground clearance to fly with it.  I'm now using a 14-11
    which works ok and has the needed clearance.
    
    Charlie
    

    Charlie,
    
    Did you use the two servo method on the elevator?  Have you had any
    trouble with the landing gear blocks breaking?  Did you use the
    hardwood motor mounts?  Any troubles?  Lastly, did you use the 3" main
    wheels or go with 3.5"?  Sorry one more,  did you counter balance the
    elevator?
    
    T'was a great Christmas at my house.
    
    John

    John,
    	I used two servos on the elevator (standard 42 oz-in).  I followed
    all of Great Planes' advice to avoid elevator flutter but I did not
    counterbalance the elevators.  I have had no problems with flutter.  I
    used my prior experience with Super Sportsters to make a couple of mods
    to the landing gear blocks in the wing.  I carefully sanded the
    hardwood pieces to remove the waxy finish so the epoxy would stick.  I
    used slow epoxy, and I added triangle stock on both sides of the torque
    block.  I have had no problems with the gear blocks on any of my
    Sportsters using this technique.  I've bent the gear wires on both my
    SS40 and my SS20 without damaging the wing blocks.  I've removed the
    wires and straightened them several times on my SS40.  I have not
    really tested the SS90/120 gear blocks with a bad landing yet.
    	I can't remember if I went oversize on the wheels.  I would do so
    though.  Prop clearance and ground handling would be improved with
    larger wheels.  I did use the hardwood motor mounts and they work fine.
    They end up very solid when built to plan.
    	The one weak point is the tail wheel.  They include the same
    assembly that comes with the SS40 and SS60 which is way too small for
    the 90/120.  This winter, I plan to replace it with a heavier unit with
    spring coupling to the bottom of the rudder.  I tore the assembly out
    of the fuse once when I tried to turn too quickly after a hot landing.
    
    Charlie
    

    Thanks, Charlie
    
    John

    
    
       I am entering this reply from Great Planes to a letter Doug Alden
    sent to them following an elevator failure on his SS-40. Hopefully
    others that build Sportsters can benefit.
    
         Dear Mr Alden,
    
        Thank you for your letter regarding problems with Super Sportsters.
     I was sorry to hear that your elevator horn had broken loose,
     resulting in a crash.
        Although we have had reports of several elevator and stabilizer
     failures over the years (there are a lot of Super Sportsters flying),
     the causes have been widely varied. Actually , the failure that you
     experienced is quite rare. It is possible that there was an unusually
     soft spot in the wood right around the horn mounting area.
        Your suggestion to apply thin CA in the area of the horn is a good
     one, and we have been recommending this in our newer designs for the
     past 3 years.
        One of the most common causes of stab failure is when the modeler
     trims his covering material by cutting through it and slightly into
     the stab. When he does this both on top and bottom, he can reduce
     the stab thickness by 1/16" to 1/8".
        Another suspected cause of stab failure is elevator flutter, which
     can result from a number of factors, especially from slop or
     elasticity in the control linkages.
        We have asked several modelers to ship us the "remains" of crashed
     models for study, and we usually have been able to determine the
     cause. In doing so, we have developed a pretty good sense of why some
     of these airplanes are crashing. Unfortunately, a high percentage of
     the crashes are related to builder errors or poor workmanship. Over
     the past several years we have been striving to remedy this by 
     incorporating more information in our instruction books that
     guides the builders to produce models that have good structural
     integrity and good aurodynamic qualities.
    
          Again, thanks for your input.
    
                                                 Sincerely,
    
                                                 James J. Schmidt
                                                 R and D manager  
     
    
         

    Bill Lewis (a fellow HTA) had elevator failure on his SS40.  I don't
    remember what caused it or whether it fluttered or not, but he lost
    elevator control and it went in.  I almost had elevator failure after
    three years flying my SS40.  Fuel got in under the horn and weakened
    the balsa.  A crack developed and spread until the elevator almost
    separated from the horn.  I noticed that I was having to use much more
    'up eleator' at the bottom of a loop than I should have.  I cut back
    the covering and made a ply splint over the damaged surface, 
    recovered, and it's still flying.  I was very lucky not to have a total
    failure.  We all have to keep our higher performance planes in good
    shape if we want them to last.  My SS40 has come close to failure
    several times due to lack of PM.  I crashed it once due to aileron
    servo failure and I had one aileron tear loose of the torque rod due to
    flutter.  Fuel soaking was the cause again on that one.
    
    Charlie
    

    A rare occurance indeed....I don't agree with his statement.  I had
    elevator failure on a brand new SS120.  This plane has split elevators
    controlled by two servos.  I built the plane with 4 hinges on each
    elevator because of the stress it would endure.  There was no flutter
    just a loud pop then total loss of control.  The wreckage was so
    extensive that only the tail section survived to tell the story.  It
    was an expensive 90 seconds.  I sympathize with your SS40 crash.
    
    John

    I've got lots of flights on my SS120 and I don't see a design flaw
    here.  Flutter is the only mechanism I can imagine that would cause
    structural failure of the stab if it's built to plan.  If the horn lets
    go, it will flutter and fail for sure though.  I probably have 500
    flights on my SS40 and I'm not gentle with it.  I do full throttle
    dives and high speed snaps with it.  I had aileron flutter once due to
    slop developing in the linkage.  It tore the aileron from the torque
    tube but I still had control of the other one and landed safely.  The
    damaged aileron was fuel soaked where the tork rod went into the
    aileron.  I blame this on my poor workmanship.
    
    	I would not hesitate to recommend any of the Super Sportsters to
    anyone!  I've got more stick time on my three than all of my other
    planes put together and they are all still flying after several
    mishaps.  Any plane that flies fairly fast is a candidate for flutter
    if things are not exactly right on the linkages.
    
    Charlie
    
    P. S.  I would take Great Planes up on their offer to analyze the crash
    remains.  I think they will give you an honest answer.  I talked to
    them when I heard of problems with the SS120 and they were very open
    about the potential problem and gave me several good tips to prevent
    it.  It's tough to sell kits and expect every builder to interpret the
    building instructions and execute them correctly.  Sportsters are
    fairly high performance planes if they have the largest recommended
    engine in them.
    
    

Just found out that Great Planes makes a wing kit for the SS40.
Just ordered it from Tower,$38. Just a little cheaper than a new plane at $63. 
Ldr

	Dear Super Sportsters

	Hi y'all from the UK,

	I've just picked up SS 40 kit, (winter
	building project)

	Any further observations from super sportster owners over
	there?..
	
	I've read the notes about beefing up the LG blocks.

	Any thoughts on mounting the engine sideways (probably be an ASP
	46) or inverted?  I've always had problems with upright mounts...
	Have you all mounted yours upright?
	
	The plan shows the rudder and elevator just rounded off at the 
	trailing edge, did you build yours this way?  or perhaps taper
	the surface somewhat?   with the tendancy to be tail heavy, how
	did you lighten up the rear end?
  
	Any help or hints will be very much appreciated!!!
	
	Cheers, Brian
    
                              

    I have also just aquired a SS kit (SS20) I would be interested in any
    responses also.  
    
    -Scott

    
    
    
    I will be getting a SS20 for Christmas and am thinking about making it
    into a trike landing gear. has anyone seen this or done if so do you
    have any suggestions!!??  
    
    Thanks
    Bruce

    
    WHY??   
    
    I think it would spoil the lines of the plane.  
    
    
    Tom

    
    	re .180
    
    	The ss40 I am building can be built as either trike or tail dragger
    	the plans detail both configurations.  If the plans only detail
    	tail dragger, I would stick to that.  btw my ss40 is being built
    	as a tail dragger.. as -1 suggests the lines of the plane do 
    	suggest this configuration.
    
    	Well as last weekend was out as far as flying (freezing fog), I
    	started the ss40.  So far the tail feathers and one wing panel are
    	complete.  I made sure to beef up the LG area!!
    
    	looks like I will stick to the ASP46 for power, time to start
    	thinking about covering and color schemes.  Any suggestions on
    	covering materials?
    
    	Brian
                           

    re.181
    < why trike landing gear because our field has a hot top surface and
    there are very few tail draggers. Just thought it might work.
    
    
    
    I have just ordered a SS20 has anyone seen a .40 in a SS20 I have read
    SS40 with .60 so i was wondering.....?? I have a .20 and .40. Thanks
    for the help.
    
    Bruce

    I don't know about a .40, but the OS .32 is a _HOT_ engine.  Just
    imagine one of these in a SS20...   Hmmm...  (Wheels are turning...)

                                - Dan

    Is the weight the same between a .32 and .40 both are of coarse OS
    
    Thanks 
    Bruce
    

    Check the Tower cat., but I think the .32 is MUCH lighter than the
    .40.  (The .32 weighs closer to a .25 FP???)

    
       I don't know the weight of a .32, but I have recently weighed a
    40FP which is about the lightest, best running, ( and wimpiest) .40
    around. Don't let the 8.5 oz advertised weight fool you, with spinner/APC prop/and muffler
    the forty weighs about 12 oz. Add a couple more oz. for the BB 40's.

    
      Last note should read: with spinner/APC prop/ and muffler installed

    Thanks, for the info.
    
    Let me rephrase the question. If you bought a SS20 and had a OS.20 and
    a OS.40 what or which would you use??
    
    Thanks again
    Bruce 

    
    
    They are both FP'S
    

  Based on comparisons with Gremlins, the OS 25FP and 40FP are just about
equal in level flight. However, the .40FP will easilly out climb the 25FP.
So the .40 should be even better compared to the .20.  


                Jim

    
     I believe "sportsters tend to come out tail heavy ( at least the 2
     SS 40's I've seen have), so that is to your advantage when sticking a
     heavier engine up front. The thing to remember when making
     modifications like this is that when you change one part, it effects the 
     whole system.
    
       Some things to consider in putting a larger/heavier engine than
     the plane was designed for, there are more:
    
        - Fuel Tank Size ( Larger engines are thirstier, and usually
                           require a larger tank. A larger tank may not
                           fit )
    
        - Wing strength  (  It may not go much faster straight and level,
                            but what about a dive, or during abrupt
                            manuvers? )
    
        - Prop ground clearance ( larger engine, usually a larger diameter
                                  prop )
    
        - C.G.            ( can you get it to balance fairly easy, or is
                            major work involved to offset the heavier
                            engine? )
    
        - Under Carraige    ( Can it handle the extra weight )
    
        - Cowling size      ( Will it fit )
    
        - engine mount      ( will the larger mount fit )
    
        - Wing loading      ( In extreme cases, the extra weight could
                              significantly increase the wing loading, 
                              changing a docile plane into a real handfull)
    
    
      Obviously, you can make anything work with enough effort, but the
    question really is: "What are the TOTAL changes needed to the system?
    After thinking that through, its personal choice based on effort, skill,
    etc.
      Please don't think that I am trying to talk you out of the .40, on
    the contrary, I would be thinking about the same thing.  I am just
    trying to get you to consider all the potential changes needed before
    proceeding. 
    
                                                  
                                                      Good Luck,
                                                       
                                                           Dan W.
                                          

    reply,.192+193
    
    
    That IS a lot to consider I guess I will have to think about it before
    making the move...
    
    Thanks again
    Bruce

	I got a SS40 kit for Christmas and I am currently trying to decide on
	an engine. I have three engiens to choose from, a 40 FP, a 40 SF,  and
	a 48 Surpass. I did a quick analysis using numbers from the OS spec
	sheet and came up with the following:

                    Wt oz      BHP   BHP/oz

       40 SF        11.510   1.220    0.106
       40 FP         7.974   1.000    0.125
     48 Surpass     13.246   0.800    0.060


	From a purely power to weight ratio basis, the 40 FP wins. The 40 SF
	will turn the same size prop a little faster and the 48 can take a 
	higher pitch prop. Would either of these facters overcome the weight
	disadvantage?


Jim

    
    
        I would recommend either the 40 SF or the 4 stroker. In my opinion,
    the SS-40 is marginal with the 40FP. The lightness can also work
    against you, as they SS-40's tend to be tailheavy in the first place,
    and may require weight up front to balance it anyway.  Because of this,
    the heavier 4 stroker's seem to work well. So at that point, it is really
    a matter of your preference of 2 stroke to 4 stroke.
        Another thing to consider is upgrading to a .46 SF. Its the same
    size and price of the .40 SF, but has more power. I have seen a SS-40
    fly with the .46, and it was a real performer!
    
                                                Hope this helps,
    
                                                           Dan

    
    
    What kind of performance can I expect out of a SS20 with a OS.20FP?
    This will be my first low wing plane but I do expect to fly it for
    a couple of years or till it meets Mother earth (rekitted).
    
    Thanks Again
    Bruce

    I can't comment on the .20FP but I did notice that the .25FP was
    slightly lighter and had the same mounting arrangement as the .20FP.
    This was why I picked up .25 for my P-38 (they also have slightly
    better performance numbers). Something to consider if you have a .20
    plane that needs a little more power.

I have an SS20, with a .25FSR, which has more power than the .20, and it
is more than adequate performance. Bill Lewis and Charlie Watt should be
commenting here too. They both used the .25FP in their SS20s and were
quite happy with them.

A bunch of us have gotten power hungry of late, but just putting a big engine
on a small plane isn't necessarily the best idea. As your first low-wing
plane, the 20 will have plenty of power. The Sportster can be a handful,
even after you've gotten very used to flying it. I really like the SS20,
and even after I finally totalled my first one after many hundreds of flights, 
I got myself another one.

So, if I had to choose between a 20FP and a 40FP, I'd probably go with the
20, but I'd also seriously consider something in between. If I were buying
a new engine in that range, and had the money, I would definitely get the
.32 - that has become popular with everybody who has seen it fly.

Sportsters don't need to be blinding fast. The only thing they really require
power for is knife-edge flight, but that's because it's not designed well for
knife-edge. Everything else it does very well.

One shortcoming of the Sportster design is that you have to build the nose,
including firewall placement, around the engine. To switch engine sizes
will probably mean rebuilding the nose. 

Dave

    My $.02 on engines.  I've owned both the .40 FP and SF.  In my opinion
    the FP's were designed to be cheap and you get what you pay for.  I
    found it unreliable and I was really able to hone my dead stick
    landing skills with it.  On the other hand, I've found the .40 and .60 SF to
    be very reliable.  I've never had a dead stick landing with an SF that
    could be attributed to the engine.  I had a spell of trouble with my
    klunk getting stuck at the top of the gas tank.
    
    Engines are one of these religious things.  For every statement I make
    here I'm sure someone has had an opposite experience.  The nice thing
    about notes is that you can add up a vast amount of experiences and
    decide for yourself.
    
    Loren (who has discovered that a new baby in the house has severely cut
    into my modeling time.  I can't even get a new ARF I bought started :<(
    

    RE. <<.199 >>
    
    Thanks Dave,
    You have  sold me on putting my OS.20 on the SS20 two things I can do.
    After I build and fly it I will know what to change or improve on. If
    I want or need something more I will know what to expect. This will
    help me decide on putting a OS.40 in my next SS20. And yes Dave I too
    would like to hear from Bill and Charlie.
    
    I have five engines a .15, .20, two .40's, and a .61 so buying a FSR or
    a .32 is kinda out of the question. Unless I can trade or someting.
    
    Thanks again Dave
    
    Bruce

    
    
    well, I got my ss20 home monday night and it's quite a kit. they did
    not scrimp on the wood quality wise. it can be used as a trike or tail
    dragger. I have chosen the t.d. I read all notes pre- and will beef up
    the landing gear. hear is what i have done... mounted the groved
    hardwood as dirrected, placed a 3/32 piece of ply ontop of hardwood
    which spans to the leading edge, bottom main spar and fits snug to each
    of the ribs. I also used 24hr. aircraft epoxy for this job and it should
    soak in real good. The wing is almost done going tonight to pick up the 
    covering. will be like the pictures as far as trim. colors will be cream
    with ins. blue for trim. only one problem i have seen so far and that
    is they gave me 4 right halves for my wheel pants or skirts.
    Im hoping i will have the wing all done and covered before the super
    bowl is over.
    I mentions in note .201 that I would put my .20 in the plane but i may
    be getting a os.30 if so iI will be putting that in instead. 
    
    One question will the .30 fit the motor mount that came with the kit???
    
    Bruce 

I just bought a SS 20 kit yesterday. It really looks like a neat little plane.
One of the modification I plan to make to the plane is the addition of flaps.
I use flaps on all my gliders and really like them. Anybody else added flaps
to a Super Sportster(any size?)

-Lamar

    Yup, I had them on my SS40..  I put 2 micro servos out in the wing for 
    the ailerons and used the center servo for the flaps..  It was fun to
    play with and it certainly made landing in Merrimack easier, but I am
    not sure I would do it again...  If your radio has the ability, perhaps 
    falperons is the way to go.
    
    I bet the SS20 would be fun with a .32 on the front!
    
    cheers,
    jeff
    

    Lamar
    
    I'd also look at drilling lightening holes in the rudder, vertical and
    horizontal stabs.  For some reason Sportsters tend to come out tail
    heavy.  WHY???  But I've seen a number of them.  I think Dave Hughes
    has written a number of notes on his sportsters and has commented on
    their tail weight.  
    
    
    Tom

RE: Jeff and Tom,

Thanks for the info on your setup Jeff. How's the Eindecker comming by the way?
I was thinking of using two mini servos or one micro and one mini(1 for flaps 
and 1 for ailerons) in my setup. Do you think a built up stab and verticle fin
would help lighten things up in the rear with out sacrificing strength too much?

-Lamar

    Lamar,
    
    If you trimed off an 1" from the rear of the vertical and horizontal
    stabs and then laminated a 1/2" stick at the LE and TE.  Then cut big
    lightening holes I'd think this would be quite strong.
    
    A light tailwheel instead of using a plywood block and the normal
    plastic bracket...
    
    Tack glue a 1" long piece of yellow nyrod to the rear of the fuse.
    Wrap a section of fiberglas cloth app. 2" long from one side of the
    fuse around the rear of the fuse to the opposite side.  This secures
    the nyrod to the rear of the fuse. Bend a 90 degree angle into a piece
    of 1/16 wire and then slip the wire down threw the nyrod.  Add a bend
    rearward are install the tailwheel.  In the rudder you install another
    short section of yellow nyrod to support the tailwheel wire.
    
    This is lighter than a normal set up.  I've used it on a number of
    small planes with great success.  Never had one fail.
    
    
    Tom

>   If you trimed off an 1" from the rear of the vertical and horizontal
>   stabs and then laminated a 1/2" stick at the LE and TE.  Then cut big
>   lightening holes I'd think this would be quite strong.

	What is the advantage of the 1/2" stick at the LE and TE? Do they add
	enough extra strenght to off set the weight of the the stick and glue?
	Also, how much of the stab area can be removed, 10%, 25%?


	I have a SS40 kit that I am going to start building soon and after reading
	through this note I was planning on some holes in the tail to reduce the 
	weight.

Thanks,

Jim

    Lamar,
    	If you build the SS20 stock and use an OS32 it won't be tail heavy. 
    I built mine for an OS25FP and it came out a little tail heavy - I used
    a Higley Heavy Hub on it to balance it.  The OS32 is longer and quite a
    bit heavier than an OS25FP.  I would not modify the tail section!  It
    works very well the way it is.  Just keep it light and it will fly
    great.  
    	One weakness in the SS20 is the landing gear blocks.  Make sure
    they are glued in well with SLOW epoxy.  Sand the hardwood pieces to
    remove the waxy coating before glueing them together.  Add a couple of
    extra triangle stock braces against the ribs.  I did this because I saw
    two planes have the blocks come loose on landing before I built mine. 
    I never had a problem with mine after doing this.  I helped a guy test
    fly his SS20 at CRRC and his gear came out on the first landing.  The
    landing was not a bad one either.  He had used 5 minute epoxy and it
    had not soaked into the hardwood at all.
    
    Charlie
    
    
    By the way, I still have my SS20 for sale.  It's Red and Yellow just
    like the one in the ads.
    

RE:                     <<< Note 813.209 by LEDS::WATT >>>
                            -< Balance is Relative >-
>>  If you build the SS20 stock and use an OS32 it won't be tail heavy. 

    I wish I could put an OS32 in it, but the ol' hobby budget is hurtin' now.
    Had to get a new two meter for competition next year! :-) I plan to put my
    FP25 in it for motavation. I started on the fuse this weekend and it's 
    slowly comming together. I wanted to do some more "investigating" on 
    flaps, before I started on the wing(maybe this weekend after watching
    the jets up at Orange on Saturday!) Thanks for the tips again!

-Lamar

    Lamar,
    	If you are using the 25FP, put it as far forward on the mount as
    possible.  That will help the balance and allow you to put in a
    slightly longer motor in the future.  I didn't do that and I would have
    to lengthen the nose almost a half inch to get my 32 in.  I flew mine
    with a 25FP and it did just fine.  It doesn't have great vertical, but
    it is not underpowered.  Keep the tail light and replace any wood that
    is too heavy and you won't come out too tail heavy.  ALso, put the
    nicad under the tank in the nose section.
    
    Charlie
    

    I had some problems putting my batteries and fuel tank (6oz.) in my SS
    20 so when I came in for a hard landing and re-kitted the nose I felt
    it time to do something different. I built a removeable lower deck so
    if I had anything go wrong in that compartment I could just remove the
    lower deck and fix the problem....works swell. I now this is not new
    tech. but has anyone else seen this to be a problem.? And anyone find
    the same solution????
    
    Bruce