Conference terri::cars_uk

	 SAY I'M driving along the road, seeing as this is
	 the usual place to drive, and I'm in, for the sake
	 of argument, fifth gear - and, this is the
	 interesting bit, I take my foot of the accelerator
	 pedal - how much petrol am I using?

	 If I now change down to second (I don't have a
	 rev. counter so there isn't any problem with
	 over-revving), and take my foot of the gas, but I'm
	 still at the same speed mind you as I was when I
	 was in fifth, the engine will be revving a lot
	 faster, but I won't have my foot on the gas. Am I
	 still using the same amount of petrol, or, (as I
	 suspect), more? If I'm using more, how does that
	 work then? Are there extra jets in the
	 carbubigwordthatIcan'tspellor which is giving more
	 petrol to the engine?

	 Imagine I'm going down (an incredibly long and
	 mysterious) hill if you like so that I'm going the
	 same speed as I would in fifth.

	 Its a funny old life

	 Dougie
	 

    Dunno, but if I coast in gear in my Grandad wiv the fuel computer
    set on "instant MPG", it tells me that I am doing 99mpg, which is
    the nearest it can manage to infinity, and a little better than
    heavy overtaking/hard wellie/kickdown, which tends to show about
    3mpg. BTW, it is an auto with converter lockout in top.
    
    This would seem to indicate negligible consumption. If you want,
    I will try a downhill coast in second, but I think the converter
    will simply let the engine idle, which would not help a lot.
    
    Find someone with a fuel computer and a manual box.
    
    Steve 

 
�    Find someone with a fuel computer and a manual box.
 
These gadgets have more sense than you would expect...

In the Audi, running downhill in gear with you foot off the gas shows --- mpg
(--- = floating overflow I guess)

Doing the same but with the engine idling in neutral shows around 300 (yes,
no dot) MPG. 

Both are probably meaningless, but still, it is the silly questions topic...


Jc   

I see no reason why you can't put SLICK-50 in an engine converted to unleaded.

For a given (constant) road speed, you will use more petrol in second than in
fifth.  The "gas" pedal doesn't control the petrol flow at all.  It controls the
size of hole through which the air is sucked into the engine.  The speed of air
flow determines how much petrol enters the engine <insert lots of horribly
complicated physical laws on aerodynamics and presure above an orifice, etc,
if you feel like it>.

With your foot off the accelerator pedal, the hole is almost totally shut, hence
less air (hence less petrol) gets to the engine, hence you normally slow down.
But while you're at this mythical constant speed, if the engine's going faster
(ie when you're in second gear) it will still suck more air through, hence more
petrol, hence higher petrol consumption.

Now my own question: why do fuel computers give such silly readings?  Surely if
they measured the petrol flow into the carb and the road speed, averaging over
a couple of seconds, you'd get a reasonable "instant" mpg.  Average for longer
and it would be more accurate.  It seems to me that the situations in which
fuel computers give up are precisely those in which you would most want to know
how what you are doing affects fuel consumption.

Scott

    < Note 1063.2 by SUBURB::PARKER >

>    Dunno, but if I coast in gear in my Grandad wiv the fuel computer
   
    Not wishing to ask an incredibly stupid question, but how did your
    Grandad feel about this? :)
    

	 And I'll tell you another interesting thing. When
	 I've been trucking long and hard in my Ford Fiesta,
	 and then park outside my house, I have been, off
	 late, sitting quietly in contemplative mood with
	 the ignition on (but the engine off), watching the
	 temperature gauge rise. Often, when the sun is hot,
	 the fan will come on after a few minutes as the
	 engine heats up. (As an interesting aside - well I
	 think its interesting, my clapped out and now
	 deceased VW 1978 Golf switched on the fan
	 automatically if this happened - but my E-Reg Ford
	 Fiesta doesn't; even though its got green stripes
	 down the side).

	 So, why does the temperature gauge continue to rise
	 after I've stopped? I mean, where is this heat
	 coming from? I know that when I'm storming along
	 the motorway at 134mph, there is the wind through
	 the radiater, which cools things down a bit, and
	 when your stopped, it can't, but when I'm stopped,
	 I shouldn't be creating any more heat. Or am I? I
	 think I should be told.

	 BTW - thanks for all the answers. I'm still
	 undecided whether or not to Slick my car or not.
	 But a decision is imminent.

	 Dougie
	 

As a rough answer to why the temperature goes up and the fan comes on...

Not all parts of the engine will be at the same temperature.  Those nearest the
waterways, where heat is being extracted, will be the coolest.  Other parts of
the engine will be hotter.  After you stop and heat is no longer being taken
away by the flow of water, the temperature will even out; the hotter bits get a
bit cooler, and the cooler bits get hotter.  Obviously after a while everything
gets cooler as the heat is absorbed by the surrounding air.

But initially the water heats up a bit, and so the temperature gauge rises.  As
the fan is thermostatically controlled, it will (unnecessarily, I think) come on
as this initial heating occurs.

The reason I think the fan is unnecessary is that all it does is cool the water
in the radiator, which is probably the coolest part of the engine anyway.  As
the water is no longer circulating, it doesn't benefit the hotter engine.

Scott

    But the water still should be circulating a little bit if the fan
    cools off some of it, it'll tend to gravitate downwards and the
    hotter coolant will float upwards.  It might not be a lot of flow,
    but there is some.
    
    Dave

    Re: .4
       
> For a given (constant) road speed, you will use more petrol in second than in
> fifth. 
    
    In my old BMW (sniff sniff), if you are doing 30mph and take your
    foot off the throttle in 5th gear you will actually use more fuel
    than the same speed in second gear.
    
    Thats because the engine management system would cut off fuel to
    the engine on no-throttle when the revs were above 1500.
    
    Of course you wouldn't continue at the same speed for quite as long
    in second gear!!!
    
    mb
    
    p.s.
    
    I didn't have any stripes on my old car, anyone know why not?

      <<< Note 1063.9 by BREW11::BELL "Martin Bell, EIS Birmingham, UK" >>>
                                -< Topsy-turvy >-

    
    p.s.
    
    I didn't have any stripes on my old car, anyone know why not?

Look Martin, if you don't have any stripes on your car, you might as well just
throw in the towel now. Anyone who hasn't got the odd stripe or two, is
obviously suffering from deep-seated personal anxieties and feelings of
inadequency. Me, personally, well I've got a nice greeny/bluey one on each side
and this got me up to 100mph the other day with my foot superglued to the
accelerator and a lead-weighted shoe.

Dougie

    
    I did a 100 the other day and my car doesn't have any stripes....does
    mean that if I do put nice greeny-blue stripes on it, it will go even
    faster ?

    The only stripes your likley to see will be the ones on the police
    sargents sleeves.
    Another question ; I have a 3.0S capri and was wondering if I took the
    'S' stripes off the side of the car would this make it go slower ???

re.12:

>    Another question ; I have a 3.0S capri and was wondering if I took the
>    'S' stripes off the side of the car would this make it go slower ???

Yes. Even more effective is keeping your ski rack on 365 days a year.

If I stick "Jaguar", "E-Type", "V12", "4.2" badges (nice chrome shiny ones, of
course) on the back of my Metro:
    a) Will it make a thunderous roar and go a lot faster?
    b) Will I be able to sell it for �20000+?

Scott

    Hmmmm,
    		I've just had an Aero-dynamically hand painted British
    Racing Green stripe painted onto my RS (see smokey exhaust note).  This
    is not a Starskey & Hutch style stripe (I couln't afford that much
    paint).  The stripe is approx 1/16th of an inch wide, and complements
    the Carlos Fandango wheels, whilst blending beautifully with the puce
    coloured furry dice and 10.000 watt stereo system.  All in all the car
    now looks like it is doing a hundred miles an hour when it is standing
    still.  
    
    		Thinking about it though I now think that my exhaust
    started to smoke about the time that the stripe was added.  Should I
    use some old "Pug' 1.9 GTI"  brochures to mask out the stripe and see
    if this helps the cars smoking habbit.  Will letting all the air out of
    the tyres make my wheels look even wider, without detracting from the
    drag co-efficient created by my Driving Gloves and Sun glasses.
    
    Bruce..
    
    My mate reckons that if you really want speed then you have to sew an
    "MG" owners club badge onto your anorak before setting of on any
    journey.  Unfortunately I am unable to verify this at present as my
    anorak is in the rally shop having some additional stripes added to the
    drivers side sleeve, this will improve the handling when my arm is
    balanced on the open window....
    

     <<< Note 1063.14 by IOSG::MARSHALL "A m��se once bit my sister..." >>>
                              -< Get rich quick >-

    a) Will it make a thunderous roar and go a lot faster?

Only if Johnny Fartpants is driving it.


Scott

>If I stick "Jaguar", "E-Type", "V12", "4.2" badges (nice chrome shiny ones, of
>course) on the back of my Metro:
>    a) Will it make a thunderous roar and go a lot faster?
>    b) Will I be able to sell it for �20000+?


Of course not. Whos heard of 4.2 V12 Metro? Only 5.2's

Now if you can get the 5.2 V12 engine into a Metro let me how it was done :-) 

Dave

    re-1
    
    You can stick a Rover 3.5 V* into a Mini van!!!!!
    
    OR a Porsche 3.3 Turbo engine in a VW Golf!!!!
    
    Grant

	For a scientific answer as to why a car will use more fuel
	in say second gear than fifth at the same speed (when in theory
	the same amount of energy is required to propel it), you
	could refer to Monsewer Carnot's exposition, circa 1850.

	Carnot was a very bright chap who managed to derive the 
	mathematics of internal combustion efficiency before such
	things existed.

	-John

    

>>Now if you can get the 5.2 V12 engine into a Metro let me how it was done :-) 
    
    fold down the back seats..........

    re-1
    
    It has been done before (The 5.3 V12 in the back where the rear
    boot + seats would normally be).
    
    Grant

Yes I've seen one with a big engine in the boot, and a big space under the
bonnet.  It looked very unstable with all the weight at the back, as though it
were about to tip up.  Maybe the driver's large ego in the front reduces the
problem.  Or perhaps the enormous wheel arches are actually ballast tanks full
of water to hold it down...!

Scott

    I get the impression that someone in here is not in "Incredibly
    Stupid" mode.......
    
    Ray ;-)

It's the right inner engine, of course!  The right outer engine is set further
back than the inner (if you stand beside a 747 you can see this), so the outer
one would protrude too far back into the passenger compartment of the Capri.
The inner one sits further forward so does not cause this problem.

Some Car magazines really don't know their stuff!

Scott ;-)

>Q. Can i get the right engine of a 747  into a '76 Capri
>A. IS this the right outer or inner engine?

Nah! wrong again. Shirley you mean "..'a 76 Capri into the right engine of
a 747?"  Then start the engine :^)

Dave

     Another question:

     I've noticed (while the sun was hot, and my window was open)
     that there is a ticking noise when driving at low speeds (a
     few miles an hour). I've been assuming that this is the fuel
     pump ticking away, but I'm suprised that I could hear it.
     The ticking slows down as I slow down. If this isn't the
     fuel pump, what could it be and do i have a problem?

     Manual Choke. Is there anything to the belief that it is
     best to use the choke as little as possible? I tend to shove
     the choke in as soon as possible once i get going. Does it
     make any difference to the engine apart from the issue of
     fuel economy? And why is it that sometimes (e.g. going up
     hill) you get a better response if you shove the choke in?)

     Ok, that's two questions, but its thge thought that counts.

     Dougie
     

    Re -.1
    
    The ticking noise that you can hear is probably your tappets. At higher
    speeds the ticking is probably drowned out by general engine and tyre
    noise.
    It could also be something stuck in the tread of your tyres (Like a pug
    205 gti.  oops, sorry wrong note, I thought I was in 1050) :^)
    
    							Geo.

    re ;-1
    
    I get this noise as well, and thought it was something wrong with
    the engine. Recently my cam belt snapped and i had the valves replaced
    and this noise just started. Knowing nothing about cars i thought
    it was something serious. ;-) (is this serious?). The car is a XR2.
    Any hints on this would be extremely welcome.
    
    I know its in the wrong place, or is it a stupid question ?

    
    Pushing the choke in also lets the engine run more efficiently, and
    should decrease wear, tear and fouling.
    
    Bi||.

If it's a ticking coming from the dashboard, then it's probably just the speedo
cable.  Nothing to worry about really, until it snaps (which it may well never
do), at which point you buy a new one.

If it's a tapping noise coming from the top of the engine (near where you put
the oil in) then it's rocker problems.  They may just be badly adjusted, or
might need replacing.  It could also be worn valve guides if it's a high mileage
engine.  If you've got an OHC it could be worn camshaft bearings, and if the
noise comes from one end of the top of the engine then it's probably a worn
timing chain.

If it's a loud knocking then your big end bearings are on the way out, and a
loud rumbling means your crankshaft main bearings have seen better days.

If it's a rhythmic tapping coming from the footwell, stop tapping your feet in
time to the music...


Re: choke problems, I usually leave the choke control pulled out until the temp
gauge has visibly moved, usually after a couple of miles.  Problems going uphill
could be due to an overrich mixture flooding the engine.  Try adjusting your
carburettor before worrying about how long you leave the choke out.

(I've given SU adjusting advice elsewhere; Weber / Ford downdraught carb advice
available on request!)

Scott

Perhaps I ought to start a new topic with this one.   However, here goes.  I
had a tapping noise.  Tappits, I thought?  Ridiculous, I've only just adjusted
them.  The worry started.  Maybe I didn't tighten up the locking nuts correctly.
A strange thought as I used a torque wrench, but worrying isn't always logical.
So, off comes the rocker cover and out come the feeler gauges.  No, nothing
wrong there.  As an aside, I'm glad that I've just got the 8 valves, this job
is a pain.  I put the cover back on and stand scratching my head.  So far, I've
spent about an hour playing.  Maybe, just maybe, I'll be able to spot where the
noise is coming from if I start the engine.  So, that's what I do.  More
scratching of head.  There's definitely a noise.  But where from?  Bugger.
Then something catches my eye, number 2 spark plug is rocking gently backwards
and forwards in its hole.  I tighten up the spark plug and, hey presto!, no
more "tappit" noise.  Slink back into house and open can of beer.  Maybe I 
should stick to software engineering...

Dave

    All these rattles are really insignificant, when compared to my
    problems...
    
    How can I stop my FURRY DICE knocking against my MINATURE FOOTBALL
    boots when I go round corners.  This is a really irritating problem,
    and is made all the worse by my recent discovery that not only are they
    knocking together, but I am begining to suspect that they are rubbing
    against my GO-FASTER stick on SUN-STRIP, causing it to fade right in
    the middle of my name.  Last week in a desperate attempt to resolve the 
    issue I moved my Harlfords STICK ON DASHBOARD COMPASS to a different 
    location,  it's now located adjacent to my Roger Clarke MAP READING LIGHT. 
    
    This happens at all speeds,  even when I'm doing 500mph sideways at
    full lock, left hand down, whils't toe and heeling the pedals.
    
    Any sensible suggestions greatly appreciated.
    
    
    
    Regards
    
    
    Bruce

I think if you add a nodding dog on the parcel shelf, a waving hand on the back
window, a Garfield on each rear side window, blinds on the back window and dark
tinted glass elsewhere, you'll be too busy trying to peer out and check your
street cred is being noticed by passers by to worry about the furry dice.

Scott

    
              
    Anyone know where I can get one of those "display" signs that 
    display a moving message and flashes etc and that runs on 12volts?
    
    RD displays in Fulham were quite helpful, but could only supply
    240volt signs and they didn't have a long enough lead :-(
    
    "Flasher".
    
    

    Sorry but I have to disagree with .34 .........
    
    The critical element in solving the noise problem is either a set
    of fingers "trapped" in the bootlid or a 10 terawatt audio system.

    I did very carefully consider the fingers sticking out of the boot lid
    theory.  But had to disregard this option, as anybody who knows
    anything about cars (like me) smug smirk.. knows that it is essential
    two have at least three I Love NY.... I Love My Ford... I Love Me
    stickers across the rear of the car.
    
    As for the stereo option I have already got one of those mounted next
    to the car notepad holder which also holds my Jackie Stewart Driving
    Gloves, and they aint got fingers either...
    
    
    ????

I'm sure you can get 12vDC to 240vAC transformers.

Alternatively, the 240vAC sign probabaly has a transformer converting the supply
to something not far removed from 12vDC anyway, so you may well be able to run
one directly from the battery (with maybe a voltage divider or something...)

While we're at it, where can I get a device which measures how close a car is
behind me, and flashes lots of lights and "You're too close" messages if someone
tries to get a bit too friendly?

    I am in the process of developing a neat little gadget, that when
    fitted, detects if a car is too close to your rear bumper. When
    this occurs, your boot lid, or hatch, automatically opens, and a
    sign appears saying "Do you want to get in ?"
    
    I am having a few problems with it though. The device activates
    at inopportune times, like in traffic queues, Car parks, and even
    when people walk by.
    
    Also, I get some funny looks when I drive past schools !!!
                     
    Does any one have any suggestions ? Shall I patent it ?
    
    Wayne

    re .33
    
    You don't drive an XR3i by any chance do you????  
    
    Craig.

    re.40
    
    According to the stickers that I have recently fitted from the
    Harlfords "this will make it faster shelf"  I drive a ..........
    
    Turbocharged_fuel_injection_popular_ohc_I_Love_Me (insert space for 
    aerodynamic boot lid spoiler, that would look good on a space ship) RS
    Turbo.
    
    Any more rude suggestions and I will zap you with my dash mounted space
    zapper......
    
    Yours
    
    A Serious Motorist

aaahh!

BUT have you a garfield half sticking out of your grill ??

    That would look silly... Wouldn't it ??

    ......only if the fingers are on the boot lid 'cos everyone knows
    Garfield's arms aren't that long......

.42�BUT have you a garfield half sticking out of your grill ??

    Where can one buy these from? (this is the Incredibly Stupid Question
    topic).

    Martin.

	On the radio recently  caught an advert where some guy had modified
	  his 1970(?) mini into a 1982 metallic Avocado Ford Granada
	  machine with twin turbos, - one for his 27 litre engine and the
	  other for his stereo.

	I havn't seen any turbo stereo's around. Anybody have any experience
	  of one or know how they work ?

	Is it just a case of go-faster stripes or souped up chips ??? 
	

>>	I havn't seen any turbo stereo's around. Anybody have any experience
>>	of one or know how they work ?

dunno 'bout turbo stereos but...
my turbo hair drier exploded last week...


...art

    ..art 
    
    This can easily be explained. Due to a mis-print on the packaging,
    serious confusion has ensued....
    
    Your turbo hair dryer is meant only for the drying of turbo-hair,
    which is wetted by sitting on the dashboard of topless TR7 in a
    severe gail while cruising through an ESSO station car wash (with
    hot wax option enabled). It was felt by the manufacturers that the
    power imparted to the street cred more than sufficiently made up
    for the unfortunate disability of owning a TR7. It should also be
    stressed that in no circumstances should the turbo-hair dryer be
    used upon hairpieces. Another soon to be released, gel-injected
    Triumph TR7 Toup� HD-1000 will satisfy such requirements.
    
    Always a pleasure being informative.
    
    Richard 

>>    which is wetted by sitting on the dashboard of topless TR7 in a

>>    severe gail while cruising through an ESSO station car wash (with
	     ^^^^

should be topless Gail in my TR7 with *hot* wax!

...art

    Going back to some of the original points raised in the begining of the
    note,
    
    SLICK 50....
    Treat your engine to some of it!
    I treated mine to it, and I have been pleasantly surprised, It is a bit
    smoother,and seems to give a bit better mpg. But, the best thing it
    gives me on an engine that has done 102,000 miles is peace of mind, ie,
    no more little idiosycracies likesuddenly decing to misfire, or not
    start in the morning, it is largely a prevention rather than cure!
    Proof?;
    
    > I ran the oil level down to off the bottom of the dipstick once, and I
    contribute the fact that it didn't drop a valve or anything nasty like
    that(through lack of lubrication) down to slick50, it didn't even
    overheat!
    
    >The fan belt snapped going up the M6 at around 80mph, on an aircooled
    engine, that is THE only form of cooling there is!, The estimated time
    to danger point/ siezure in this particular occasion is according to
    the manual approx. 60 secs! It took me around that time to get from the
    fast lane through 3 lanes of traffic to the hard shoulder!!. This was
    about 6000 miles ago, and no ill-effects so-far.- again, I reckon
    slick50 helped my bank manager out again there!
    
    So mr Nisbet, if I were you I'd buy some, certain manufacturers are now
    treating their cars with it/equivalent at production stage.
    
    See you at the next "it" bash then,
    
    Carl.

    Oh yes, the Metro with the mid-mounted 3 litre lump was called the 6R4,
    If I remember rightly, it was a rover v6 3.5 lump, with 2 cylinders
    literally chopped of the end,reworked, and then bored out to 3.0litres.
    The body was of glass fibre, and hinged on the roof in the middle,
    raising each end of the car up like 2 enormous bonnets!
    
    Carl
     

C'mon Carl - where's your street-cred man? Whoever heard of an IT who could
afford a car capable of going 80mph? 

I slicked my old Golf (removes hat in sign of respect), and jolly good fun it
was too. I'm not sure if it acheived much, though. 

I think I'll slick my current car, (its not mine, you understand, its my
feeonsies; see street-cred above), partly because I like the box the Slick-50, 
er, (racks brain for Bathroom Tissue alternative, - nope) , comes in. I can see
it working out expensive; SLICK-50 + oil + oil filter. 

Dougie

ANY other suckers for wonder potions out there?

I rememeber my old Golf (I had a Golf once, just in case this point was escaping
you), and liked to try out various potions in it. My favourite one was the
stupendously useless Gasket-Sealer. I can't remeber what it was called, but it
claimed to cure oil leaks by kicking your Gaskets up the bum and giving them a 
new lease of life.

Perhaps these wonder potions should have a label warning;

	"It is scientifically impossible for this product to do what it says it
	  does - but go on, buy it anyway. Just out of curiousity. I mean,
	   imagine if it DID work, you'd be chuffed to bits wouldn't you,
	   and if it doesn't (which it won't), you'd be too embarresed to 
	   admit buying this kind of rubbish"

Needless to say, it didn't stop my engine leaking oil like an obscure and
incredibly witty analogy which I can't think of at the moment.

Any other suckers out there? Please tell me I'm not the only one! Don't tell
me you've never bought a tin of "Put this in Your Petrol and You Will Go 
Dead Fast" before?

Dougie

       One of the things we turned out from my Grandfather's garage when
       he died was a can of fluid (full) that claimed to repair cracks in
       engine blocks. All you had to do was empty the tin into the
       radiator and Robert's your Aunty's husband!

       Now although I wasn't the one who bought it, and in fact I'm not
       even sure that Grandad parted with money for it - I will admit
       that I was naive enough to keep the can in case I ever needed it
       sometime.

       Ian.

    re -1;
    
    a few weeks ago I went to a motor-factors wholesale store where you
    could buy lots of really useful things cheaply and lots of really-really
    useful things very cheaply.
    
    In the really-really useful section I got the following in the does
    everything to everything class;
    
     - A replacement boot for a cv (or steering) joint that can be put on
    without stripping the whole front suspension. This is especially good
    because my own boot split only a few weeks ago and the CV joint was
    destroyed. I've now got new cv plus cover on car and instant, no bother
    replacement in cellar. So if, in 10 years time you need one, just call
    me.
    
     - A tool for picking up dropped washers etc from boy scouts feet and
    other awkward places. Plus a magnet on a piece of wire for the same
    purpose. Since I've bought these I've suddenly lost the knack of
    dropping washers down between the alternator and the block.
    
     - In line with -1 a tube of instant gasket (orange variety) which 'is
    now being used by major producers in the original manufacture of
    engines; resists water, oil, etc even under pressure'. Just the job to
    fix the oil leak between the block and the petrol pump. I've still got
    the leak (after 2 attempts) but a least the orange ring around the pump
    enables me to see it in the dark
    
     - A pair of universal Paddy Hopkirk bicycle carriers to fit any roof
    rack. Only problem is that they don't fit my Paddy Hopkirk roof rack. 
    
    Still, the only mildly useful section of parts, tools, and bulk
    supplies filled up the rest of the trolley and emptied the bank
    balance.
    
    Peter
     

    I had a curry the other night ... Could I borrow a couple of gulps of
    that stuff....
    
    
    Bruce

Going way back through the mists of time to .27 on Wednesday,

> I've noticed (while the sun was hot, and my window was open)
> that there is a ticking noise when driving at low speeds.

> The ticking slows down as I slow down.

I'm amazed nobody suggested the obvious.  The ticking is clearly the clock!  The 
apparent slowing down of the clock during deceleration is a relativistic effect
predicted by Einstein.  Clearly your car must have been travelling at close to 
the speed of light.  You must have some *serious* go-faster stripes!

Jon

I'd stopped at some Motorway Services the other day there, and when I got back
into the car, I had a lot of trouble starting the car (with or without choke).
My woman turned to me and said (is there a song coming here?), "Oh, when that
happens I pump the clutch" - "you pump the CLUTCH say I, don't be rediculous!",
but needless to say taking my foot of the clutch and depressing it again, now 
that's a thought, when you shove the clutch pedal down are you presing it or
DEpressing it? Anyway, that isn't the point, the point is that when I jabbed
the clutch a couple of times the bloody car started. Is this just because I'd
delivered a length, an impressively scathing explanation to my woman that no 
dear, pressing the clutch will have no effect on starting the car and it
was just starting out of spite? This has happened several times and I'm
sure it isn't fluke.

Note; when I attempted to start the car the first time, I had the clutch pedal
PRESSED DOWN (like what the handbook suggests), and it was only when I
disengaged the clutch that the engine fired. Why?

Dougie

    Don't wish to panic you here Dougie,
    
    But my mate who's a mechanic and goes by the nickname clutch....
    
    No No I'm way of the mark.
    
    
    Bruce

"Press" and "depress" have almost the same meaning.  I always thought "depress"
suggested more movement in the thing being (de)pressed: you would depress a
clutch but press a touch-sensitive button.

Anyway...

I too have heard that cars are easier to start with the clutch depressed; maybe
the strain of turning the gearbox shaft is too much for the starter motor?
Can anyone give a sensible reason why this is the case?

Re. -2:
>>I had the clutch pedal PRESSED down, and it was only when I disengaged the
>>clutch...

err, the clutch is DISengaged when you press the pedal, and engaged when you
release it.

    When I depress my clutch, I find it is a lot easier to change gear..
    
    Is this a normal occurence..???

    does this happen in anybody else's car..??
    
    yours
    
    Paul Ford Xr(mumble mumble) owner

    Re: .61
    
    I too find it much easier changing gear after pressing the clutch,
    but don't forget to release it again afterwards otherwise no matter
    what gear you select you eventually come to a halt.
    
    mb
    
    p.s.
    
    I also find that pressing the clutch causes other drivers to dip
    their headlights, but that was another topic!!!!!

    Thanks Martin...I'll remember that..
    
    Does anybody know if Halfords sell the "shields" kit as shown on
    the Batmobile (in the Batman film with Jack Nicholson etc etc.)
    I think this would be an ideal addition to any car, No more expensive
    alarm systems needed..just the phrase...
    
    
                           "Shields On"
    
    good huh..??

	Who remembers the good ol' Moskvitch ??....whenever you changed
	gear the reversing lights would come on. Other vehicles would		
	always travel at least 10 yards behind...I wonder why ??

	P1

    Still see this on cars, noticeably Maxi's!.
    
    Richard

As the topic has got round to gear changes, and it's a silly questions topic,
is it true that DAF Rubber-Band drive (aka CVT, I believe) is making a comeback?

If so, who is making it and what's it being fitted to.  I'd like to know so that
I never inadvertently buy a car with it...

How does reverse work with such a system?  Fish around under the bonnet and put
the band on a different spindle, spinning the opposite way?

I think we should be told.

Scott

    
    and on Escorts !
    
    Does anyone know the reason behind the Escort wiring feature that
    results in both the brake light and the indicator lights on that side
    of the car flash on and off if the brakes are applied when the
    indicator is switched on ?
    
    The alternate wiring feature is for the Brake Light on that side to go
    out completely when the indicator is on.
    
    Is this another undocumented feature to help cars go round corners
    faster ?

    >> 	always travel at least 10 yards behind...I wonder why ??
    
     ... I am surprised that there _were_ any cars behind a Moskvitch!
    
    :-)
    Ray.

    re .66
    
    I know Ford now make the CVT system and use it on Fiestas.
    
    Don't know how it works though! 

> re. Note 1063.68 by CRATE::STREET "Tapestry? OK by me, OK Bayeux?"
>    
>     ... I am surprised that there _were_ any cars behind a Moskvitch!

	Too true !!! Four of us used to hire one each weekend to joyride
	around the country. The rental rate was a third that of sensible
	cars and this including unlimited mileage. The rental garage only
	had two of them, so we got to know both and all their problems
	very well !

	Plus Point
	----------
	The Heater (this could heat up a giant size aircraft hangar in 
	about five minutes !) and nifty radiator blind operated from
	inside the car.

	Minus Points
	------------
	Reversing lights lit when changing gear.
	'Gate' between first and second gears.
	Main driving lights had a tendency to cut out totally !
	Interior trims and knobs rattled off after a few miles.
	Acceleration akin to a knackered 2CV.

>>            <<< Note 1063.67 by OVAL::ALFORDJ "Ice a speciality" >>>
>>    and on Escorts !
    
>>    Does anyone know the reason behind the Escort wiring feature that
>>    results in both the brake light and the indicator lights on that side
>>    of the car flash on and off if the brakes are applied when the
>>    indicator is switched on ?
    
>>    The alternate wiring feature is for the Brake Light on that side to go
>>    out completely when the indicator is on.
    
>>    Is this another undocumented feature to help cars go round corners
>>>    faster ?

    Sorry to be sensible: This is as a result of bad earthing on the light
    assembly in question. The indicator can't earth on it's own side,
    therefore as it's shares it's ground with all the other lights it feeds
    "backwards" through wherever it can to find a ground. Usually through
    the stop light down the common wire and back up to the other light
    assembly, through that light and down to ground. Just shows poor
    construction.
    
    Richard
    

Re my note a bit back ...

I could understand it if the engine fired with the clutch engaged, and 
therefore driveshaft diesengaged. This is a serious (albeit incredibly stupid)
question.

i.e

1) Stop at Motorway services

2) Eat drink etc

3) Get back into car. Engine is still warm.

4) Switch on radio. Fasten seat belt. talk about the pratt with furry dice
	in the XR3i parked opposite.
5) Switch of car alarm which forgot had switched on before going into services.

6) Notice that XR3i driver is looking at you with "Look at that pratt in the
	Fiesta who can't even switch a car alarm off"
7) Put Key in ignition (now we're getting there)

8) Press and hold down clutch pedal. (IMPORTANT)

9) Turn key.

10) Car doesn't start. CXR3i driver playing with his furry dice and sneering
at you.

11) Pull choke out since its worth a try.

12) Press and hold clutch pedal down.

13) turn key.

14) Passanger suggests that if you let the clutch pedal come up and press it
down again while trying to start engine then engine will start.

15) Sneer patronisingly at passenger but try it anyway.

16) Car starts.

Now, answer my question? Read the note! The car STARTS when I take my foot
OFF the clutch pedal. This is the opposite of what I expect.

Dougie

    
    If it's any consolation, my Land Rover is the same, it doesn't like to
    start with the clutch pedal depressed.
    
    (ps, if you get a Land Rover, you just have to drive over the furry
    dice, and threaten the owner with the bull bars..........)

    
    
    Do you remember when drivers used to use indicators?
    
    

    re last, anybody remember driving in cars fitted with the old semaphore
    indicators ? They, err had a charm of their own !
    
    
    Also, are the old dip and blink headlights still legal today ?
    
    DejW

I'm always moaning at my fiance for resting her foot on the clutch pedal.
All the books so "God! NO! DOn't do THAT! The car will blow up!!" and stuff
like that. Is it really that bad? If you rest your foot on the clutch pedal,
and only take up the play ... is there really any chance of this wearing out 
the clutch?

Dougie

Re: .66

The Van Doorne continuously variable transmission currently exists in two
forms.  One, the original type, with rubber-based drive belts, is used on
the Volvo 340.  The newer type uses a steel drive belt in an oil bath and
is available on the Ford Fiesta and Fiat Uno.

Reverse works very simply by changing the rotation of the input shaft.

I can't understand why you would want to avoid this type of transmission.
When it was originally introduced by DAF it was used very successfully in
several rally cars, it was also very successfully used in Formula 3.

jb

To start with, there still seems to be some confusion about what is engaged and
when, so:

Clutch pedal pressed  ->  clutch disengaged, hence driveshaft into gearbox
                          disengaged from engine
Clutch pedal released ->  clutch engaged, hence driveshaft into gearbox
                          engaged to engine

Why pressing or releasing the clutch pedal should make any difference to
starting at all is beyond me though.  If it is changing the load on the starter
enough to cause the engine not to fire, then I'd investigate the general
condition of the electrics and particularly the battery condition.

Turning off the 4000 watt radio while starting may be prudent, as it allows
some electricity to get to the engine instead....

Resting one's foot on the clutch pedal is not to be recommended, as:
1) You'll wear out the clutch release bearing.  Although the bearing itself is
   quite cheap, it's not the most accessible of parts to replace.
2) If you rest a bit too heavily, the clutch will slip a bit, which you may not
   even notice, and so the friction linings will wear out sooner than they
   should.
My advice is keep your foot well away from the clutch, except when changing
gear of course!

Scott

Pressing the clutch whilst starting means that the starter motor is only
turning over the engine, not the cogs in the gearbox.  So it makes life a little
easier for it.  The car tends to start more quickly too.

Dave

Re: last couple ...

Clutch Pedal Pressed, clutch disengaged. Starting motor & battery healthy and
engine turns rapidly but does not fire. 

WHile doing above, Release Clutch pedal (clutch engaged, in NEAUTRAL!). Engine 
fires.

This is not fluke. It only seems to happen when the engine is warm; say after
stopping for half an hour or so. As I say, its the opposite of what I expect.
I would expect it to be more likely to fire when the clutch is disengaged.

Re Cluctch Pedal foot-rest. I hadn't considered that there was another 
component vurnerable apart from the clutch plate itself. This puts a new slant
on things. 

Thanks for the feedback and answers. its all appreciated.

Dougie

re: starting with clutch pedal pressed

Contrary to common wisdom, this isn't a good idea as doing so puts extra
pressure on the crankshaft and the thrust bearing/surfaces at the front.
Starting with the clutch pedal not pressed and the gearbox in neutral puts
minimal extra load (main shaft in gearbox and oil drag) on the starting
system. Unless you are in artic climes the starting system should be
healthy enough to start this way.

	I've decided my car is lonesome as it doesn't have a toy, but...
which toys do cars like best?

	Do I get it a stick-on Garfield, fluffy dice, a point-anywhere compass,
or even an inclineometer.

	Suggestions appreciated.

...to keep the first one company!

    
    I think the first thing you should get is a sun strip with 
    "KEV and JULIE" on it...

    RE: Engine won't start unless clutch is dipped, then released while
    cranking...
    
    I've had a similar thing happen to me with a FIAT 127 (don't laugh).
    Things went as follows:
    
    1)	Turn ignition on: everyhing as normal (battery & oil lights
   	on).
    
    2)	Turn key one step further to crank engine w/ starter: starter
    relay goes click, starter motor turns v. slowly.
    
    3)  Thinks: My battery must be low, I'll try again with the clutch
    dipped to give the starter some relief.
    
    4)  Try the above: Starter now turns engine very rapidly, engine
    fires up, clutch cable snaps (????).
    
    5)  Ring up garag, garage says: Check your battery-to-starter ground
    braid (????)
    
    The explanation is as follows: Electricity follwos the path of least
    resistance. In my case (loose ground braid), this was the clutch cable,
    which snapped as a result of being overheated by 150-odd amperes racing
    through it.
    
    Your problem might be similar. I suggest that you check all your
    electric connections to & from the starter, or, alternatively, look
    under the bonnet for low-flying sparks when starting the car in
    a dark garage...
    
    /Ben

Re .82

>	Do I get it a stick-on Garfield, fluffy dice, a point-anywhere compass,
> or even an inclineometer.

Garfields - real Garfields� are expensive but I have a `Garfield clone' which 
was a lot cheaper.  If you look closely you see that it is actually a tiger so 
it obviously doesn't infringe copyright but it has a similar `look and feel'.  
(How long do you think it'll be before Xerox start sueing anyone producing
anything small and furry as it has the same look and feel as the original
mouse?)

Compass - I got an excellent one from Halfords.  It only cost about two quid and
it always points exactly towards the enginge...


Jon
 

The compass sounds useful, I always wondered where the engine was....

>    RE: Engine won't start unless clutch is dipped, then released while
>    cranking...

You should try the effect of pressing the clutch pedal when the engine is 
idling and the gear lever in neutral.  

With some cars I've had this slowed the engine, i.e. drag of clutch release
bearing exceeds internal gearbox drag.  Reasonable to expect easier
starting if clutch pedal left alone. 

On others it has speeded it up. Opposite true.

Think these characteristics tend to apply to old and modern cars
respectively. 

    I have found that with my '76 MGB.  When I press the clutch pedal down 
    whilst idling over, the engine definitely runs slower (I sometimes
    think its going to stall!)
    
    Kris.

    RE: CVT transmissions,
    quote; " They fit it to Fiesta's and uno's now."
    
    I recently hired a G reg (delivery milage only) Ford Orion, this was
    automatic with the CVT gearbox, and a 1.6 litre engine. I believe fiat
    now fit the similar gearbox to their Tipo aswell. For the original
    enquirer's benifit of "I'd like to know which cars have one so I don't
    buy one",
    a) The car went like **** off a shovel.... V.quick!
       it felt like it was in the same class as a sierra 2.0 ghia auto
       which avis supplied me with about a month ago.
    b) The new CVT gearboxes are made with METAL bands which are
       ingeniously designed not to stretch, but instead they add sections into
       the band rather than stretching.
    c) There is a small lag, rather like a turbo lag of about quarter of a
       second which you have to get used to, after that, it is a doddle to
       drive!
    
    Carl.

    The CVT gearboxies are actually made by FIAT....

What's a gearboxie?

    It basically the same as a gearbox, only spelt differently.
    
    ..Craig

    
    it's that cute little lump of lots of bits of metal that has lots of
    unnecessary washers in it....

    Re: -.90
    
    This can be caused by worn crankshaft thrust washers. Depressing the
    clutch pedal generates an axial force on the crankshaft that tends to
    move it forwards. If the washers are worn then it will succeed. This
    then causes all kinds of friction as big end and small end bearings get
    pulled out of true, with the result that the engine slows down. The
    only solution is to re-shim the crankshaft with new washers to produce
    the correct end float.
    
    Dick

    RE: Clutch
    
    Could it be the clutch cable moving the HT leads around?  Or is
    this really silly?

    
    
    Do you remember vinyl roofs? 

    And stick-out sun visors, like a leaked cap for the car?.
    
    Richard

    ... and doors that opened forwards....
    
    Ray.

I saw a Vinyl roofed Granada at lunchtime; looked rather grubby.  I suppose it
was just one of these passing trends, like 205GTis, R5GTTs, XR2s, etc

Cheeky git

       Re .100
>    ... and doors that opened forwards....
    
       Actually, there is still one car produced in this country that
       has forward opening doors.

       This conference ought to have a Trivia note!

       Ian.

    Re .101 and .98
            
    ...... certainly do remember vinyl roofs...... I can see one every
    time I look out the back door at home on a '77 Granada. This one
    was a factory fit option put on in Germany complete with factory
    slide/tilt sunroof. When the vinyl's been cleaned and buffed up
    with polish it looks classy, but I agree that it can look tatty
    in between times....
            
            
    Tell me.... does JUNO::FROST drive a Granada? Or am I getting confused?
    

    Re: .104: You must mean London taxis?
    
    Jeff.

Re. .105

Fraid not. JUNO::FROST is a dedicated member of the Fluffy dice, Sticky Garfield
Kevin and Sharon, go faster stripe 205 GTI squad.

Woz

    ...and this really is an incredibly stupid question.....
    
    ...where do you put the vinyl roof on a fluffy dice, or a Garfield
    or even Kevin or Sharon come to that?

    Re: .106:
       >  You must mean London taxis?
    
       Congratulations Jeff, you are today's winner!

       Now it's your turn to ask one.

       Ian.

    Not to ask one, but to explain
    
    SET /MODE=CLEVER_CLOGS
    
    The reason is so that the cabbie can lean out and open the door for
    the customer.  There is no truth in the rumour that it's so they can
    scoop up fares during slack periods.
    
    Jeff.

.110�    The reason is so that the cabbie can lean out and open the door for
.110�    the customer.  There is no truth in the rumour that it's so they can

    Do they have to have very long left arms?
    
    Ian.

Yeah, but it's compensated for by the equally short right ones!

    I remember all sorts of dramas about a year or so ago, 'cos a baby or
    young person opened a door in a taxi slightly on a motorway, the wind
    ripped it fully open, out fell young chap and was no more.
    
    Now they have the door which auto lock when the beast is moving..
    
    
    Clever or dangerous??
    
    Greg

.112�< Note 1063.112 by BRIANH::NAYLOR "12 cylinders gone (sob!)  Only 4 left." >
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    

.114>> Title:  Did you sell it?

Yup.  Tis gone to a new owner, for what I consider to be a VERY high price
(25% over appraised value).  but then I'm happy!!   Anyone got an aeroplane
they want to sell?

Brian	F*rting on all 4 cylinders	(=Volvo!)

my car suffered a small dent & large paint chip (size of 5p coin- 
down to bare metal) in the car park (behind decpark 1/2)

this occured some time during/after the fire alarm practice...

the car was OK when I walked past it away from & back to the building during the
drill...

only noticed it when leaving yesterday evening (its quite noticeable)

looks like someone 'accidentally' smacked the corner of a briefcase (maybe) into
the door leaving the dent

I'm pretty sure that it isn't a knock from someone opening their door into mine
because it was parked nose-to-tail with other cars (rather than alongside 
others)

what I want to know is if I can get any compensation from DEC for it 

(don't all laugh at once)

I don't think that the person responsible is going to own up to doing the 
damage...

cheers...

...art

Couldn't think where else to put this, but I'd like some sensible answers if
possible!!

In terms of fuel injection equipment, what's a Blenheim / Plenham (not sure of
spelling) chamber?

In terms of crankshaft / clutch / gearbox connections, what's a spigot bearing?

Ta,

Scott

As I understand it:

  - the crankshaft is bolted to the flywheel
  - the flywheel is held in contact with the clutch plate by the diaphragm
    spring in the cover plate
  - the clutch plate connects to the first motion shaft via sliding splines

which gives all the necessary connections to get drive from the crankshaft to
the gearbox.  So...

what's the point of the spigot bearing connecting the crankshaft to the 'box
first motion shaft?  Is it just to provide a mounting point on the end of the
gearbox shaft to stop it wobbling around?

Scott

Sorry, I suppose that should read:

the diaphragm spring holds the clutch plate in contact with the flywheel

and not the other way round!

The spigot bearing also stops the oil leaking out of the engine into the 
clutch bellhousing.  This bearing tends to leak on old Pinto (Cortina, Capri,
Sierra) engines.

The clutch release bearing is the one that wears if you ride the clutch, but
it's easy to replace, if you can get at it.

I'll have to look at my photographs, after all, I only put the bits together,
I didn't need to replace the bearing.  Is there an oil seal behind the spiggot
bearing?  Pinto's definitely leak oil there.

Dave

    The oil seal which leaks is the crankshaft oil seal. The spiggot bush
    on the BMC A series engine infact fits into the end of the crankshaft
    and not the flywheel (for Ford engines, I think it fits into the
    flywheel).

    I fitted a 1275 A series engine to a Moggy 1000 van I used to have
    and smashed three or four gearboxes before I realised that the spiggot
    bush was missing !!!

    The spiggot bush keeps the first motion shaft in line with the crankshaft
    when the clutch is disengaged. If you try engaging the clutch at high
    revs in an attempt at a "boy-racer" start, the first motion shaft tries
    to move out of line with the crankshaft. Without a spiggot bush, this
    movement causes the primary, secondary and layshafts to move out of
    line, and lots of the teeth drop off ... or they did in my case at least.

  Mark

A question about torque and horsepower.

What factors (eg engine size, valve size, etc) affect the torque and power
figures for an engine?

What's the difference between BHP and HP?

How do power and torque figures relate to:
 - acceleration
 - maintaining constant speed up a steep hill with a heavy load?

Anything else the panel can think of?

Scott

    From my limited knowledge ...

    All engines produce torque and power; the important features appear
    to be where the maximum of each is achieved with respect to engine
    revs. This appears to a certain extent to be related to engine "shape".

    "Shape" for me, means the relationship between bore and stroke of the
    engine.

    If the engine has a larger stroke than bore (under square), maximum torque 
    is produced at lower revs than for and engine which has a larger bore than
    stroke (over square).

    Having maximum torque at low revs is good for pulling heavy loads op hill.

    Maximum torque at high revs makes for better acceleration (I think).

 Mark

Reason I ask is that I rear-ended someone in my Avis car the other week and
the Datsun in front was totally wrecked at the back but the Avis car showed
only a bent front number-plate!  At 2-3 mph too!!  Or maybe Japanese tin
boxes really are made out of tin?  The front of the Datsun was in bad shape
too after running on into the car in front (a Cadillac, which had one scratch
on it's paintwork to show).  The insurance companies will never believe it.

    This is a really daft question, but I'd like an answer please...
    
    Could someone with an Escort MkII measure the *compressed* length of
    the front springs, with the car unladen and on level ground.
    
    I'd go and find one in the car park and do it myself, but people might
    get the wrong idea...
    
    Scott

    
    Two daft questions :-
    
    1. Why do hitch-hikers sometimes hold up license plates (usually red
    letters on white background) - especially on motorway slip roads ???
    
    2. Do left-hand drive cars have the foot pedals in the same order as
    right-hand drive cars (i.e. clutch on the left and accelerator on the
    right) ???
    
    
    Karen
     

    1. These are not strictly hitch-hikers, well yes I suppose they
    are. They are vehicle delivers, ie from the manufacturer to the
    car showroom. They are allowed to drive on red "trade-plates"
    whilst delivering new (un-taxed) cars. I suppose the idea of hitch
    hiking is to have some company or save expenses !
    
    2. yes.
    

	Re .13

	I know the answer to the first question; they're not *real* hitch
	hikers, they're professional delivery drivers who are trying to
	save a few quid by getting a free lift home instead of using the
	travelling expenses they've been given to go on the train... the
	red & white plates are the trade plates they use when thrashing
	your brand new car to it's delivery point...

	Jonathan.

Assuming I haven't been blacklisted in this conference...

How much does a Ford Cortina weigh?

(And don't say "depends how much of it has rusted away"...)

Scott

    
    Re. .131 .132.... Thanks ! now I won't have to give a ride to one
    of these hitchers just to find out what his number plate is for.....
    
    Karen
    

    	Re the subject of pedal layouts (!) I think it was Maserati (some
    years ago in Formula One racing) who had a pedal layout with the brake
    on the right and the throttle in the middle! It caused all manner of
    problems when the "automatic reaction" is to stomp on the middle pedal
    to stop!!
    
    	On the other hand, the Lotus mechanics played a trick on Colin
    Chapman, the now-deceased founder of Lotus Cars, on the press-day
    launch of a new model. They "tweaked" the steering so that the car
    would turn left on right-hand lock and vice versa. Colin was due to
    take the car onto the test track at Hethel and give it a bash. When he
    discovered the trick, to his credit, he went right out and did it!!!
    
    Colin

    RE .130
    
    1 I suppose they are Belgians.........
      Or want to go to Belgium........
    2 Yes the pedals are in the same order.
      Funny however with English cars:
      My MGB GT has the handbrake on the right hand side of the driveshaft
      tunnel.  Most handbrakes are on top of the tunnel.
      I have driven a .... Hunter (Rootes Group product), where the
      handbrake was located right of the driverseat. (RHD)
      The latter was quite difficult to handle.
                                                        
    
       Hans
           

A lot of cars used to have the handbrake to the right of the driver's seat (in
RHD cars!).  I suppose it was "standardised" in the middle because people kept
tripping over it getting in and out...

The positioning of the handbrake relative to the tunnel depends on the angle of
movement.  Levers which move from horizontal to 30� tend to be on top.  Those
(often in sportscars) which move to a steeper angle tend to be on the side of
the tunnel, as it's easier to fit the mechanism there, and stops the lever being
up too high...

Scott

    I would suggest .136 is actually referring to a handbrake to his right,
    in the CENTRE of the car (i.e. left hand drive). 
    
    I think generally they were moved to the centre as it makes lhd to rhd
    conversion easier. I know a lot of cars have the handbrake "tailored"
    to suit the home market. e.g. the BX, it's to the left hand side of the
    centre console, the cavalier has the cutout in the console for a hand
    tailored to suit lhd not rhd. I used to have a mirrafiori, the
    handbrake was right next to the passenger seat, a pain for the  driver
    as the resulting pull was at an awkward angle!.
    
    Richard

RE: handbrakes.. When I learnt to drive (at a very early age!)
I started out in the family car.. which had the handbrake
on the drivers side.. thus my dad had _no_ braking control
over the car at all..

It made for 'tense' driving lessons...

	I used to have a Porsche 924 (alright Audi 924 then), which had
	the handbrake to the right of the driver's seat (in a RHD car).

	I once got stopped by the police on Christmas eve at about midnight,
	and as I was getting out of the car caught the end of my trouser
	leg over the handbrake, and promptly sprawled across the pavement
	in front of the policeman.

	The expression on his face when I passed the breathalyzer had to be
	seen to be believed...

	I think handbrakes should be in the middle.

	Jonathan.

    
    Isn't it old Mercs which have a foot operated 'hand-brake' which you then
    release by pressing a button - makes for interesting trips when you
    borrow someone elses car, and they forget to mention how it works...

>>Isn't it old Mercs which have a foot operated 'hand-brake'

its on new ones too!

    Funny handbrakes.....
    In my second 2CV (1970) the handbrake was mounted under the dash.
    The release button was on the lever, but was able tobe turned
    one quarter. After that nobody was able to release the handbrake.
    Nice protection against theft!
    
    Hans

            <<< Note 1063.143 by HOO78C::DUINHOVEN "Dutch treat" >>>
                          -< Another funny handbrake >-

.. and the CITROEN XM ?

    A foot-pedal operated "handbrake" with a hand operated release was
    and still is as far as I can remember common to most American designed
    cars..... or at least it was when I was living out there. 

    Still is over here, they refer to them as 'parking brakes' or
    'emergency brakes'.  On some of the more expensive cars they are
    released automatically when you slip the automatic tranny from Park
    into any gear.
    
    Dave

    On the subject of handbrakes, does it do any damage to rely on just
    putting an automatic selector into Park, and ignoring the handbrake?
    I got into this habit driving automatics on US trips.  Now I have one,
    and it doesn't go back to Avis after a week, I'd like to know :-).
    
    I'm particularly thinking of the effects of parking on a slope.
    
    Jeff.

Doesn't "Park" lock the driveshaft by putting a pin through it, � la steering
locks?

Whatever it does, I wouldn't rely on it to hold a car; use the handbrake.

Scott

    RE .144
    
    << .. and the Citro�n XM?>>
    
    I have driven this car only once ('Allo?) and did not watch
    the parking brake system.
    I have a suspect this car has the USA foot lever adoption.
    Adjustment of suspension by flicking the switch to 
    "Sporty" has influence on motorway travel. Makes ride firmer, but
    not uncomfortly hard.
    Brakes are hazardous! Just a slight touch will put this car into
    a standstill in no time.
    Others should keep their distance, like to do with every Scorpio
    (or should I still say Granada in the UK?)
    
    The two litres engine is very noisy and ruines the car's concept.
    The rear view is very poor, but one should think: 
    "This one is for driving in the fast lane, so rear view is
    not really needed......
    
    Hans                     

Re .147>                       -< Is Park enough? >-

>    On the subject of handbrakes, does it do any damage to rely on just
>    putting an automatic selector into Park, and ignoring the handbrake?

       I don't know what it does to the car, but it's actually illegal.
       The Construction & Use Regs state that you "must set the brake and
       stop the engine before you leave the vehicle".

       Ian.

Re: .150

Right!  and if the car has an automatic transmission it must be placed in
the Park position.

jb

    You really ought to set the parking brake before placing the tranny in
    Park.  If you just slip it into Park, the car will roll a bit once you
    let off the regular brake.  This can make it very difficult to pull it
    out of Park once you want to leave.
    
    Dave

I was in my local Ford garage this morning, trying to buy some Escort MkII 1600
engine mountings (as one does on a Wednesday morning...)

There are two mountings, one each side at the base of the engine, consisting of
a metal bracket which bolts to the engine, and a rubber block which sits between
the bracket and the "chassis".  The rubber blocks are the same both sides, but
the brackets are a slightly different size.

The rubber blocks and the nearside bracket are readily available, but...
Ford no longer produce the offside bracket...?!

I said I thought this was a bit silly, but the parts salesman said it sounded
typical Ford to him...

Scott

    ...and a few ( Stupid Questions that is ) I've come across :
    
    Whilst demonstrating one of those wall-mounted, movement detectors,
    which are ideal for detering criminals or as courtesy light outside
    the garage :
    
      MAN #1: It will detect movement within <mumble> feet in *ANY*
    	      direction within 180� view

      MAN #2: And behind it as well ? =8-0
    
    Overheard in a spares shop :
    
      MAN #1: I'd like a replacement fluorescent tube for the garage.
      MAN #2: Is that a SINGLE or DOUBLE, Sir ? =8-0
    
    

  Did anyone ever hear about a survey conducted in Sweden to do with
  fast drivers.

  Apparently, and I just heard this OK, some genius scientific type came
  up with the idea that the size of the male sex organ was related to the
  speed at which men drive (not women).  The belief was that the smaller
  the p*nis the faster the driver.  Apparently the authorities were
  conned into cooperating with the survey.  Speeding drivers were stopped
  and informed that they could take part in the survey (i.e. drop your
  trousers so we can measure your willy) or pay the normal fine.

  Don't know if the survey was a success, or if it even really happened.
  But, according to a friend of mine who lived in Sweden for some time,
  Swedish males do tend to drive extremely fast.


GAZ who_normally_drives_a_little_faster_than_he_should *8^).

PS.  Does this mean Nigel Mansell hasn't got one?? 

    
    Why are UK number plates yellow at the rear and white at the front ?
    
    Raj

    
    
    re -.1
    
    White   -  you see someone coming
    Yellow  -  you see someone going
    
    Apologies,  had to be done ;-)
    
    Nik 

Also, cars aren't allowed to show a white light to the rear.  Number plates are
reflective, so a white one at the back would contravene this rule.

Scott

    Ive never looked at the rear  of my number plates!
    
    Tony

Does anyone have some useless statistics along the lines of:

Number of "car-miles" travelled per single-car accident
Number of "car-miles" travelled per two (or more) car accident
Number of "car-miles" travelled per fatality in an accident
Number of "car-miles" travelled per "serious" injury in an accident

and so on...

Just curious,

Scott

RE: -.1

The only useless statistic that I have along these lines is that Luxembourg
has the largest number of accidents per road mile travelled of any OECD
country. So, contrary to what you might think from reading this notesfile, it
is NOT Portugal!

Cheers

Steve

	Anyone expert on London traffic?

	Every Friday night I drive from Reading to Woodbridge (in Suffolk),
	to do this I end up on the M25 in the 5mph queues for hours on end...

	The question is, would I do better ignoring the M25 and carrying
	on down the M4 into the centre of London then out again on the
	other side on the A12? This is assuming I leave Reading at about
	6.30, so would maybe miss the worst of the town centre traffic?

	Jonathan.

    If I am travelling that way on a Friday night.... I normally don't
    leave Newbury until 8.00 or 9.00. Then the journey is not too bad...
    
    Once I left at 7.00.... saw what the M25 was like near Heathrow,
    and so continued into London. Getting into London was not too bad;
    but along the embankment, and out again through the edge of the
    City, and Wandsworth and out on the A12 to the M25 again was VERY
    busy. 
    
    We made the journey through London possible by stopping at a drive-in
    MacDonalds... the price of the full meal (!?) being about 1/3 what we 
    would have paid for a snack at the service stations on the M25 or A12.

    Cheers, Chris

I travel back from Reading into Fulham every night - 
a) If you leave Reading at 16:50 then you usually miss the queues getting off
the M4 onto the Chiswick flyover. Otherwise leave it till at least 18:45 or 
you risk a long queue (usually before Heston Services) all the way in.
b) I usually find that traffic better if you leave the A4 at Hammersmith, go
over Hammersmith Bridge, and join the South Circular by Putney rather than going
down the Fulham Palace Road to Putney - this is usually better than embankment 
as you are still going against most of the traffic - cut across Tower Bridge to
then join everyone getting out of London !
As long as you are going into town there are few problems (Marble Arch about 60
minutes from DEC Park if you leave at 16:50 or earlier). BUT to get out of town
again you need to be more sneaky - if you do use the embankment go south across
Chelsea bridge to miss Parliament Square and then cut across Southwark or Tower
Bridge to get out to Wapping
which usually has ok traffic all the way to the North Circular junction which
meets a few miles north with the M11 and A12. At about 18:30 it takes me 35
minutes to get to Wapping from Fulham and a further 20 minutes to the M11 - but
your journey time will be influenced far more by the M4/A4 traffic before you 
get to the embankment.
If you hang around till 20:30 the M25 is almost worth it.

Nigel

Why do diesel cars have rev limiters ?

    
    probably for the same reason the Injection model Vauxhalls have
    limiters :-(
    
    The revs just go on up until the engine blows without them !

    How do the rev-counters in racing cars work ?
    
    I've noticed that the 'blip' to the engine speed, rather than 'sweep'
    round the dial like ones on your average, family, box.
    
    Are they more accurate (i assume so) ?
    
    Are they mechanical (I thought this was outdated?) rather than
    electronic ?
    
    Curious,
    
    AMS

	How long will it take someone who knows nothing about cars, spanners
	and monocoques, to learn about her kit-car?

	I'm taking bets on:

	1)   2 months

	2)   9 months

	3)   18 months.


	I am NOT taking bets on     4)     never.

	Heather

    
    If you're serious about learning how it all goes together, next time
    your mechanic friend is working on a car, offer to help. If he's
    anything like my teacher (my Dad) he'll readily hand over all the dirty
    jobs... "just get underneath and remove the oil filter....", you soon
    learn that oil filters are full of oil!  (my excuse is I was only 12,
    my Mum was _not_ impressed! )
    

It depends on what you wnat to learn and how much time you can spend learning
it.  I'd go for the nine month option.  Buy an MGB Haynes manual (for the
suspension et al) and a Rover one (for the engine).  There are probably several
Rover ones, so check exactly which type/year of car your engine is from first.

WH Smith probably also have some car books that will explain all the basics that
Mr Haynes assumes everyone already knows...

Alternatively, get someone to go round the car explaining it all to you.

Even better, get someone to go round the car doing it all for you.

Scott

    
    Or try your local nightschool for a Car Mechanics course.
    
    You can normally get find courses at two levels (theory and changing 
    plugs/oil and a more technical checking timing/adjusting tappets type
    level). I did one of the latter courses years ago and it was money well
    spent in my mind (shortly after I did the course I successfully rebuilt
    an engine, using just a Haynes Manual for guidance!).
    
    Mark

    Re: .168
    
    If the "rev counters" on racing cars 'blip' on a change in engine
    speed then return to zero, then they are measuring something different:
    i.e. rate of change of rpm.  Since they are different instruments, you
    can't compare them for accuracy or anything else with a normal rev
    counter.
    
    Jeff.

	I'm not going for the option of helping out, do you really think that
	someone who has built that car, will let me anywhere near the bonnet?

	The bloke who built the car is an engineer, he modified the engine -
	rover/buick 3.5 V8 to fit it in the bonnet, so it's not standard.

	My current course of action is to listen to things he says whilst 
	we"re in the pub.      Then see if I can remember and understand them
	the next day.

	Did you know that I don't have holly"s?

	I have learnt the techi difference between chassis, running gear and 
	mono whatsit, what I need is to look at cars that are built like this 
	so I can see the difference.

	If you see me crawling under cars in the car park, you"ll know what 
	I"m up to!

	Next, I suppose, is a basic understanding of standard engines, and
	the way cars are constructed.
	
	If I get that far, I'll celebrate with a bottle or six of champagne.

	The NG will have to wait for a few(?) months.

	Heather    Who will practice on the land rover and montego first

    
    The Landy is a good place to start - you don't need to jack it up to
    get underneath! The best way to learn, though, is to work on the car
    yourself, and with someone else if you don't have the confidence to
    tackle the job on your own. It's all very well learning the theory, but
    seeing all the bits for youself, especially the bits that have 
    failed :-)  is a great aid to understanding!   

>>What are "hollys"?

Holly= expensive american carbs as fitted to big block muscle carbs 
(& buick/rover V8's occasionally)


...art

>>Holly= expensive american carbs as fitted to big block muscle carbs 
								^^^^^^

meant cars


...art   #-)

	Holly is a tree with prickly leaves.
    
    	You mean Holley

    Back to .168 and .173,
    
    nope, they don't return to 0, but when the engine speed changes
    they flick down/up then settle on the new speed.
    
    Derek - doesn't the 23 have a tacho like this ?

    No... Holly's are those things you go on to get away from work for
    a week or two.

    
    I reckon the reason the rev counter on a race engine flicks from 0-
    8,000+ rpm so quickly is because race engines actually do go from 0-
    8,000+ rpm so quickly.
                               Dougie

I think I know what you're asking about.  They jump between rev settings and 
stay there for a second or so and then jump to whatever the engine is doing now.

I believe they are called sampling tachs and were mainly used in race cars.  It
enabled the driver to look at a stationary needle instead of a moving one
which supposedly made it easier to read.  The big problems were, it was
difficult to get a feel for how fast the engine was accerating and if you
missed a shift or something, chances are you would never see the needle
up in never-never land (who looks anyway?).

Does this help?

Dave

    Another dumb question, that I thought had been raised somewhere, but I
    can't find it....
    
    My new BX has a Clarion radio fitted, but the user guide isn't very
    good. It has auto-search, and you can switch it between "Local" and
    "DX" mode, by pressing the search button twice, while on one of the two
    FM bands.
    
    What is the difference between "Local" and "DX"? It doesn't tell you,
    and as far as I can see, it makes no difference...
    
    Peter.
    
    
    

    My Clarion had automatic switching between local and DX mode when in
    search mode.  It would scan first in Local mode, stopping on only the
    strongest stations.  If it failed to find a station above the 'Local'
    threshold, it would then switch to DX mode for a further scan, thereby
    increasing the sensitivity and picking out the weaker stations.
    
    Jeff.

    Oh, as simple as that...
    
    Thank's a lot, Jeff.
    
    Peter.
    

    Do I detect a teensy note of sarcasm? :-)
    
    Jeff.

    Certainly not!!
    
    As if I would....
    
    (well, usually I would, but I wasn't on this occasion!)
    
    Peter.

    Here's a stupid question.
    
    What is it which makes the inside of your windows covered in a thin
    film, which when you driving into the sun etc stands out and reduces
    vision alot. I clean the inside of my windows by wiping with a dry
    cloth, which get's rid off this, but it's back again very soon. I don't
    smoke so what causes it??
    
    Greg

	I always put that down to static (I don't smoke either and, in
	summer, there's no condensation to blame.  There are liquids that
	claim to be anti-static, maybe one of those would help...

	I always thought it was the screen demister blowing dirty 
	exhaust from the car in front over the inside of the screen.

    Mark

	I get it in the Marlin and that takes the air for the screen 
	demister from the nearside of the car, so it can't be the 
	exhaust from the car in front...

    Just leaving the windows open increases the rate at which this film
    forms.  During cold but dry weather (windows closed) I find the film
    takes a long time to become noticeable - recently with the sunny hot
    weather I've left the windows open and the film is noticeable within 24
    hours - just think - we're breathing this s**t.  BTW when cleaning it
    off it is brown in colour.
    
    Dave.
    

    I, too am a non-smoker and get this film on the inside of windows. It
    is noticeable on the windscreen of my 5 day-old car now!
    
    I have rigorously enforced on myself and others that drive my car the film
    stays there until it all gets cleaned of with one of the proprietary
    window cleaners, so that means in winter, no smears and no clearing of
    the windscreen except with the demister.
    
    IMHO the film is due to all the microparticulate matter kicking around
    in the air as I still experienced this phenomenon in three SAABs which
    have filters that will take out even some pollens. Where does this come
    from? Pollen is one source, but the majority is solid material ejected
    into the atmosphere by infernal combustion engines. It is the fine dust
    that you can wipe off the inside of your exhaust system spread in a
    very, very thin film plus the other bits and pieces flying around. The
    disc factory at Colorado Springs (and probably Kaufbueren) has a "Clean
    room that is "Class 1" clean (I think....) which means that there is i
    particulate matter per cu. m. of free air. An operating theatre is
    about "Class 100" (you can guess what that means) and countryside air
    is about "Class 10,000,000" ........... 

And I always thought that someone sneaked into my car in the middle of the
night, and fried chips!

	As I understand, this film is mainly due to diesel.


		 Alan
		~~~~~~

    to clean the inside - permanently (almost) I use the vdu cleaner
    stuff which you polish off with the white cloth.
    
    Rich.

    
    The film is actually (to the best of my knowledge) due to something
    given off by the plastics from the dash etc... The hotter it gets,
    the more film collects.
    
    Bill.

    I second the solution in .200, I too have heared this expounded as the
    cause. 
    
    P.S. I drive a diesel, so all the fumes are behind me andyet I still
    get it, so it can't be diesel :-)
    
    Richard

    re .201

   I drive a petrol car, and get it, so it doesn't matter . Its not your car 
causing it, probably all these nasty lorries. 
   Anyway, it was CCC that reckoned it was diesel, so make of that answer
what you will !!!!!

	 Alan
	~~~~~~

	Well, I get it in the Landrover and the Montego, but NOT in the
	NG...............................

	Heather

    RE .204 ......
    
    
    
    Mike, I have temporarily misplaced my encyclpoedic(sp?) version of
    "Languages of the distant parts of the Galaxies"........ could you
    translate 'fnarr fnarr', please?..................{8^]
    							^
    							|
    						me with furrowed brow

    err...catch up on a copy of Viz, and all will be revealed.
    
    Finbar

    I think a quote from Roger Mellie would be deleted...
    
    :-) :-) :-)

    I've always said MGs are too small.  ;-)

Re: .200

This is correct.  The stuff is the plasticiser in the PVC.  To make PVC
flexible, it contains as much as 50% of chemicals called plasticisers.  
These are things like di-octyl oleate.  At high temperatures (and drk 
coloured PVC can get *very* hot in direct sunlight) the plasticiser tends 
to sublime and it condenses as a whitish film on cooler surfaces such as 
the glass.

jb

    Re:  This horrible filmy stuff on everyones windscreen (inside that is).

    I have found that the best way to clean it off, and keep it clean for a 
    while, is to use cool water with vinegar added (not too much or it is
    very smelly).  This really rakes it off.



GAZ

	How the hell do I stop my driver's seat from squeaking when
	I go round bends/over bumps/accelerate/brake/ect???

	It's driving me nuts!

	Jonathan.

    RE: .211
    
    Perhaps you could sit in the passenger seat?

turn up your stereo louder

    What were you doing in the seat when it squeaks?  How many people?

	Now that _would_ be telling...

	Ignoring all the wonderful things said about women drivers, I have a
	question:

	This morning, my hubby drove the landrover out of the drive, and left 
	it running for me, whilst he got the montego out to go to work.


	So, I drove it to work...............with the handbreak on.


	Now, I know handbreaks work differently in landrovers than in cars.


	What have I done, or potentially done to the Landrover  

	It's an petrol R reg, 2.25L, with no sync. between 3rd and 2nd.


	Heather    It's been one of those days

    Well assuming it's the same as the Range Rover, I think it's just a drum
    brake on the rear propshaft, so probably it's no worse than driving
    an ordinary car with the handbrake on. Now someone tell me I'm wrong.

    Jonathan.

.-1; You're wrong.

Because it acts on the input side of the diff, it exerts much more influence 
than a normal handbrake which operates on the rear drums. Handbrakes are not
really emergency brakes on Landrovers because if you were doing 30mph and 
pull it on hard, you'll leave your diff in little bits scatterred on the
road. Not to mention your (notoriously brittle) half-shafts (unless you've
got the Salisbury diff fitted).

So, you've probably :-

o Cooked your handbrake drums
o Changed your diff pre-loading
o Laid a smoe trail from home to work - so no-one could see your husband driving
  his Montego ;-)

Seriously though, I would get your diff looked at during the next service.

-Dave.

ps (tell me you knew you were doing it, you just wanted to test the brake pad
    formulation...)

If its still running you probably haven't done anything, but doing this to a
Landy is a good way of breaking the prop-shaft.

You may have also burned out the linings of the handbrake - get them checked
before relying on the hand brake to hold the vehicle on a slope...

/. Ian .\

Did you smell any burning (remember the Ridge Way Ian?). If not then you may 
not have done much, if any, damage. How 'good' is (was) the handbrake before?

By that I mean how much 'pull' before it engadged.

Buit don't worry moi dear you're not alone in this little trick. ;-)


Simon

	Well, hubby said there was some brown smoke coming from the landy, but 
	he didn't pay much attention to it.


	It's being checked over tomorrow.

	It definately did hold, 'cause it was quite difficult pulling away at 
	roundabouts - Dave had driven with me the day before, and told me I 
	treated it to carefully, and that I should give it more revs when I
	pulled away and changed gear, or I'd never go anywhere.


	So there's me thinking it was my driving, and I wasn't giving it enough
	revs - why don't I trust my instincts??????????????????


	Heather........................never again

	Oh yes, I did smell something, however I was following a haulage
	truck that was spewing out wonderful fumes, so I assumed the smell
	came from there.

	It may have, on the other hand..............


	I really don't believe I did this, I must have switched my brain off.

	update on Monday of the damage.


	Heather

    Hmmm.  I've learnt something today.  I often drive a clapped-out old
    Land Rover retrieving cables at my gliding club.  I thought it stopped
    quickly when I pulled on the handbrake at 5mph :-).
    
    Jeff.

	My tyre pressures have to be checked cold, so it says.

	The incredibly stupid question is, how long does it take them
	to cool down after driving, and how quickly do they warm up?

	Jonathan.

	Ok then, how long in Reading on September 20th 1990 at
	whatever the current outside temperature is?

No need to worry JJ, the way you drive , your tyres are always cold.

Dave :-)

	You're surely not suggesting that my driving might
	be a little on the _slow_ side, are you??? ;-)

	Jonathan.

	I'd wait about an hour, most times.  If the tyre feels no warmer than
	the ground, then they're cool.  Mind you, I usually check my tyres 
	when I set off, not when I get there...

	Mostly it depends on how hard you take the corners and how
	high the pressures are. Low pressure, heavy cornering =
	very hot tyres very quickly.

	-John

    .236 has it.  Why not check them before you set off in the morning, or
    before you leave work for home in the evening?
    
    Jeff.

    Re: .236 "... I usually check mine when I set off ....."
    
    Sounds dangerous to me. How many times have you run over yourself?
    
    JK feeling_pedantic,_but_will_apologise_if_you_think_I'm_rude (-:
    

	I've never managed to run myself over but I once neatly rolled my
	car onto my own foot whilst trying to set up the timing...

	Dave

      re: .240

      Me too !!!

      Mark

    Toyota recommend at least three hours after last major vehicle movement
    and not more than � mile driven in that three hour period.
    
    Dave.
    

    well, not so much an incredibly stupid question, rather an incredibly 
    stupid questioner!
    
    Any (reasonably acurate) ideas of the mileage between UVO and WLC
    (that's Viables and Winnersh)?
    
    I *will* remember to note the mileage on business journeys...I *will* !
    
    Thanks for any help....
    
    Mike
    
    

�    (that's Viables and Winnersh)?
    
    I take it Viables is in France - in which case, what port was used ?
    
    It would be easy enough to get mileage figures from Winnersh to the
    port, but you'd have to get the other portion from another source.
    
    I could check the mileage using Autoroute on my PC tonight, but
    I don't have the French version for the other part of the trip.
    
    BTW, I think the AA use Autoroute, so perhaps a call to them may get
    you the answer (they would probably have French version too), unless
    you can get a correct figure from someone else...
    
    J.R.
    

    
    GOOD ONE, JOHN! :^)
    
    Viables is in exotic and interesting....
    
    BASINGSTOKE! :^)
    
    Mark

    Thanks for the replies.... 8 miles further on than DecPark seems not
    unreasonable. Wishful thinking as far as crossing the channel is
    concerned! Basingstoke is more Boring than Ken Barlow!
    
    (loads of :-)s, before Basingstoke and Barlow fans start shouting at
    me!)
    
    Mike

�                          -< Dreaming of the sun.... >-
    
    Yeah, a bit of wishful thinking.
    
    J.R.

    re .247.
    
    There's a writ in the post.
    
    Ken.

	It's 15 miles from Deathpark to Viables........do you go past
	Deathpark from Winnersh-->Viables?

	Heather

    Autoroute gives anything between 23 - 28 miles. Depending on whether
    you go by the slow, very slow, or very very slow routes. It knew where
    Winnersh is, but not Viables.
    
    Gimme a couple of postcodes and I'll do a more accurate one tonight if
    you like.
    
    Dougie
    

    
    Within a couple of miles maximum Basingstoke should be enough.
    
    The 'Smoke isn't THAT big!
    
    Mark

        <<< Note 1063.249 by SPARKY::BARLOW "Have you seen my Randy?" >>>
                                -< Yawwwwnnnn. >-
    
    
    
    Sorry Ken, I should have put "more bored" rather than "more boring"!
    
    Don't you just *love* it when your namesake hits the headlines....just
    think how long I've had to endure the "Michael row the boat ashore"
    line....
    
    :-)

    Mike,
    
    You always seem to be phoning me up.
    
    The phone rings and its "Mike Roe Response"
    
    You must of heard that one before.
    
    - Roy (what's the weather like up there?) Shelley.

    Those milages don't seem right...........
    
    
    Lets see: Winnersh, A329(M), M4, M25, M3, Basingstoke, Viables.
    
    (-: (-:
    
    JK (Who once had a Rally driver take him from Bedford to Swansea via
    the M1, M6, M5, M50, etc, etc. *Really*)

    I guess this is covered in a topic somewhere, but I can't find it, so
    here goes...
    
    About a month ago, the Reading Evening Post had an article on a Rally
    School somewhere near Reading/Basingstoke - ish.  You know, thoses
    places that do day long intro sessions, etc.  Does anyone know the
    address or number of this place?  Or even still have the article? 
    
    TA!
    
    Mikef 
    

    
    This question may have been raised before but...
    
    Does anyone know the location of the site where Hertz sell off thier
    ex-rental cars and/or have any experience of dealing with them.
    
    The reason for asking is that I will be looking for a "well priced" 
    '91 H Escort 1.3 LX or Fiesta 1.1 LX early next year and want to
    compare quality and prices.
    
    Thanks for any pointers.
    
    Andy
    

>    Does anyone know the location of the site where Hertz sell off thier
>    ex-rental cars and/or have any experience of dealing with them.
    
As far as I know they just get sent to one of the local car auctions.  This
for the south region is usually in Reading....which one I don't know, but
bribing/cajolling it out of a Fleet rep may get you the information :-)

    I saw a transporter collecting cars from DecPark last week and
    thought it said Bristol & Avon Car Auctions.
    
    Would a call to the auctioneers provide any answers ?
    

OK, here goes...

Blue flashing lights indicate emergency services, right?

Orange flashing lights are for breakdown trucks, road maintenance
vehicles and basically anyone else who wants to make you aware of their
prescence but isn't allowed to use a blue one.

The stupid question is: who uses green flashing lights?

I saw an unmarked white car with a green flashing light pushing through
the queues of traffic at the M4 Junction 11 roundabout about a month
ago.  I've been meaning to ask what it was ever since but I can't
recall doing so.

My only guess was some branch of the military.  I didn't notice whether
the car had military or civilian plates.

Jon
 

is the meaning of green flashing lights.

On a stationary vehicle, it's used as a radio control point for some
civil thingy or other.

Peter.

    re: last 2:
    
    Wasn't that question in one of the daily papers last Saturday. The
    daily Mail I believe. Not that I read it, you understand...
    
    Andy

Isn't green flashing light for a doctor type?

Thanks for your quick responses.

If it's for a Doctor, it seems I was right to get out of his way!

Re .262,

I refute any implication that I have ever read the alleged newspaper in
question - my query sprang purely out of ignorance.

Jon

  Also nurses and ambulance personnel, etc. 
    i.e. Medical rather that Doctor-specific.

    Being part of a medical family, I can attest that a green flashing
    light, attached to any part of a cars anatomy, indicates that it is
    being used on medical emergency business. There are no mandatory laws
    about getting out of its way, however it is hoped that the nearness of
    green to blue and common courtesy will be sufficient to achieve the
    desired result. As with Ambulances and Fire Engines there is no
    statutory right to avoid traffic signals.

>        -< or exceed the speed limit, or break any other traffic laws! >-

Unless escorted by the police...of course...

Yesterday evening I saw a beautiful cream-coloured Mercedes 300 SE convertible.
I'm no expert on cars, but the style looked at least 20 years old, but the
car had a 'C' (1986) plate. 

Can anyone explain how an old car can have a new plate ?

Karen

> Can anyone explain how an old car can have a new plate ?

because it's a total rebuild with a new engine ?

    RE: .269
    
    Imported?
    
    I moved from Germany to France and brought my car with me so now it has
    plates with nnnnXB06. Therefore it "looks" as if it is only 4 years old
    where it is 7. 
    
    Same situation goes for someone moving within France and Germany, you
    have to re-register your car.  
    
    Dave

>    Imported?
    
I think imported cars are given Q registrations, if they're not new when
imported.  I'm not certain though!

Chris.

    I don't think so...I`ve see lots of American cars without Q plates.
    
    I thought Q plates were for cars that aren't quite all one car, 
    i.e Kit cars and accident damaged reshells??
    
    
    Ian.

    Q plates are handed out when the exact year of manufacture or is it
    registration cannot be determined. Like if you've got a car thatis
    actually two cars welded together then how would you know what plate to
    give it.
    
    Andy.

    Saw two Ford Vans driving up the M6 today, sporting L reg plates.  They
    had trade plates hung about half way up the back doors.  
    
    Mikef

    Tony, good to see you noting in CARS_UK again. 
    
    I'm nit picking I'm afraid. 20 years ago would give you the old 'L'
    reg. You'd have to go back 30 years to get regs with no year prefix.
    
    This 'C' reg car. Are you sure the C was at the beginning and not the
    end of the reg ?
    
    Royston (Hey maybe we should be getting a life :-) )

Yes, the 'C' was defintely at the beginning. I only asked the question, because
I thought you couldn't make a car look younger that it actually was ? For example,
you couldn't put a personalised plate starting with a 'K' onto a 10 year old car.

Karen.

	As I understand it you can move plates around at will (you now don't
	even need a car to put them on).  Maybe the driver needed the same
	plate on each of his/her cars 'cos they could only remember that
	one number plate?

	Dave

	Q plates are now given for imports.


	Once you have a Q plate, you can onlt change it for another Q.


	Heather

    Re not changing a Q plate..
    
    I'm sure I read about a company that will change it for you,
    
    
    
    Ian.

    
>    I'm sure I read about a company that will change it for you,
 

	We talked to the vehicle registration people.

	They say, once a Q, always a Q.

	Have checked this with the NG owners club (kit-car club) who confirm 
	this.

	If you do know anyone, plese let me know.

	Heather   
    

	There was a company that claimed that they could give you
	a non-Q plate.  However they did it by exporting the car
	to Eire and back again and I'm not sure that (a) it was
	strictly legal and (b) they are still in business.

	The usual way to avoid a Q is to either:

	(a) Dupe the inspector when he/she calls (Oh, yes, it's
	built directly onto a Cortina chassis) or

	(b) Use the registration document of the donor car and
	send it away for incremental changes you build the car (ie
	4 to 2 seater, change of engine, change of colour)

	Both work but I personally would worry about an insurance
	company (mine or the other party in a crash) quibbling about
	this if they found out.

	Dave

    In the mondeo ad' they say that it has anti-submarine seats.
    
    What are these?? Does this mean it they can withstand a torpedo attack
    by U-Boats???
    
    
    Ian.
    

    
    I wondered about that as well - I tried to convince myself that he
    wasn't saying "anti-submarine seats", but if it's not that, I don't
    know what he is saying.

I think the term should be anti-submaring seats. They stop you sliding under the
seat belt when stopping a bit quick.

Simon

    sounds better -
    
    and more comfortable, I wonder what a seat with depth charges either
    side would be like in an accident :-)
    
    Paul

nah, if a submarine gets too close when you are indulging in water sports with 
your mondeo, the car will leap to your defence and bite it on the nose...

    I'll have a pint of what Janes drinking!

    To be boring:
    
    "Anti-submarine seats
    Front and rear seats incorporate anti-submarine `ramps' designed to
    complement the effectiveness of the seat belts and prevent occupants
    sliding forward under the impact of a crash."
    
    There is also a picture which I can't reproduce here.
    
    And as there appears to be no copyright, I am not required to tell you
    that the above is extracted from the Ford 1993 Edition One Cars
    brochure, wittily entitled "Featuring Mondeo".
    
    Jon
    
    
    whose anti-submarine seats arrive as soon as Ford can work out how to
    predict when they will be building a car!

I've got a FIAT Tempra for the day while my car's being serviced. After
driving in today with the side-lights on, and having switched them off 
on the stalk, I got out of the car to see that the side-lights are still on.

Is this a fault, or does the Tempra have some sort of parking lights that I
haven't discovered ?

Paul (who doesn't want a flat battery this evening)


[The Tempra manual didn't give me any hints...]

    Could it be the position of the ignition switch when you removed the
    key ? On some units if you turn the key to a certain postion before
    removing it, it will leave parking lights on.
    
    Just a thought
    
    Royston

    Excuse me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs.......
    
    Are all four lights on, or just the two on one or other side?
    
    If the latter, then it may be due to the position of the indicator
    stalk.  A number of cars will illuminate the side lights on one side of
    the car when the ignition is turned off with the indicator left on.
    
    Personally, I hate this feature, and will seek to have it disabled on
    my next car.
    
    - Chris -
    

Thanks for the swift response...

Royston hit the nail on the head - if you turn the ignition key right the way
back you're in PARK mode. So you have to turn it back two clicks only to leave
everything off. (I would have had the park position between OFF and ACC myself,
but then maybe that's just one of the quirks of Italian cars that supposedly
make them so appealing to the Jeremy Clarksons of this world !)

Paul.

My Tipo has the same feature but you have to press a buttom to remove the
ignition key. I like this feature mainly because you conciously have to leave
your lights on.


/Paul.

    What is the name given to the type of gearbox layout found is Ferrari,
    BMW M3 and some other race cars. This is where reverse is where 1st
    'should' be and 1st where 2nd etc.
    
    	Rik
                :
    ie          : Optional 6th for owners of 456GT's
                :
    	R  2  4 : 6
    	|  |  | : |
    	+--+--+ :-+
    	|  |  | :
    	1  3  5 :

    A:  A Bedford CF diesel van gearbox, in my experience....
    
    Richard 8*)

    I've heard this type of arrangement referred to as 'dog leg' first.
    
    Is that the expression you are looking for ?
    
    Royston

    You could be right, I always thought `Dog-leg` 1st was slighly
    different but I and probably wrong.
    
    	Rik
    
    What I thought a dogs leg was...
    
    	1    3
    	 \   |
    	  +--+...
    	  |  |
    	  2  4

It's the old 2CV box with an added 5th !

This is brilliant. Now I know I will have absolutely no problems trading up to
a Ferrari ! I'm always wanting to change up to 5th on the motorways.

But does a Ferrari have that same minimalist approach to interiors ? Nothing
there if it dosn't add to the performance ? (When I saw the interior of a Group C
sportscar I thought how much better appointed it was than the tin-snail !)


T.

    Steve Croplin (?) the ex CAR Mag editor use to have a 2CV turbo (yes)
    and a 308 GTB - so it has been done.
    
    As for minimalist you could always get a 250 GTO LM :-)

I have a 2cv6 special and a Ferrari 308 gt4, gear shift similarities was one of
the reasons I got the 2cv.

Tony.

    Yes its known as Dog leg 1st
    and it takes ages to learn properly... in racing
    it is used when the 1st gear is only used to start and thus allowing
    the driver to drive a normal H pattern... but its difficult if you
    are used to a normal 5 speed. Its taken a bout 300 laps for me to get
    used to it

>    Yes its known as Dog leg 1st

great set up for back/forward manouvering - especially when there is no gate on 
reverse !

But the gate in going to be installed!!!

	Derek who was not in gear when the light went green!!

�	Derek who was not in gear when the light went green!!
    
    Still a better idea than that which 'that Frenchman' came up with !!!

    Hi,
    
    	I have just purchased (well about 6 weeks ago actually) a
        Ford Orion 1.6 Diesel for the wife.
    
        The wife is enjoying her freedom from the public transport
        system and all is well with the car, except.....
    
        ...... it makes an awful noise when you start it up.
    
        If it was a petrol car I would simply (ha!) replace the
        starter motor.  My stupid question is .... do Diesels have
        starter motors?  If not, what the hell is making the noise?
    
        Any and all help gratefully received.
    
        Thankx
    
        Mick - who_knows_sfa_about_diesels_cars

    re .308
    
    Yes, diesel engines have starter motors. In fact they need more
    powerful starter motors, as the engines have much higher compression
    than petrol engines. So it may be normal to make more noise when
    starting.
    
    Also diesel engines do make more noise when they are cold. There is
    sometimes a special cold start procedure - you should read the manual
    to find out how you should start it when cold.
    
    Perhaps someoneelse with the same engine can say if it is particularly
    noisy when starting.
    
    Andrew

ref 308

	Yes, the Diesel cars do have a starter motor; perhaps a bit more powerful
	than the petrol ones due to the higher Deisel engine compression.
	
	As for as the Ford Orion 1.6 Diesel is concerned it does make a little
	more noise than a petrol car but not unduly high. I have had mine now
	for 5 years and the noise is comparable with other diesels on starting.

	Only one thing is that on starting from cold you should wait for the
	amber light (cold start light) on the RHS of the dash to go out before
	actually turing the key to turn the motor. That is to say, insert the
	key, turn it slightly so that the oil pressure and cold start indicator 
	lamps light up. Wait a while (norm approx 30 sec) for the cold start
	light to go out and then turn the key further to actually start the
	motor.

	Hope this will help

	/KSD

    Thanks for the information.
    
    Yes, I do wait for the little light to go out and I do follow the 
    cold start procedure.
    
    The noise is not as bad when the engine is warm, however the worst bit of
    the noise seams to happen after the engine has fired up (ie when you let
    go of the key). 
    
    Thanks again
    
    Mick.

    I had to strip down my starter motor on an ordinary petrol engine a
    couple of weeks back due to the noise it was emitting after the engine
    had started it. From what we worked out it wasn't recoiling
    properly/fast enough, so after a good clean and a dab of oil in a
    couple of places it now seems to work okay.