Conference vmszoo::rc

		Slope Site: Bose Mountain
		-------------------------

	LOCATION: Framingham, Mass. (Headquarters of Bose Corporation)

	DIRECTIONS: Physically, it is located at the northeast corner of the
	intersection of Rt. 9 and the Mass Pike, behind the Sheraton Tara,
	in an industrial park. From Rt. 9 travelling west, go under the Mass
	Pike bridge and take a right at the first set of lights (next to the
	Ground Round). Follow this road over the tracks til it curves right
	and comes to a T intersection (about .2 mile). You are now looking
	at the slope from the bottom! Turn left, follow the mountain road
	up and park at the back of the parking lot. From the Mass Pike, get
	off at the Framingham exit, get onto Rt. 9 west and follow above
	directions. From Rt. 9 east... well, there's a back way too involved
	to describe here. Give me a call.

	WIND DIRECTION:	Ideal is a west wind. Less ideal is a south wind, but
	I've never tried it off that slope. Southwest wind is murderous; use
	caution! 

	LANDING AREA: When using the west-facing slope, there's plenty of
	landing space, mostly tall grass. From the south slope, you might land
	on hard parking lot. The grassy area tends to stay wet, watch your
	step.

	OBSTACLES: This is an industrial park, so there are plenty of 
	buildings, roads, and power lines around, although none of them are
	higher than the slope. The major obstacles in the landing area on the
	hill top are the many kite flyers who also inhabit the place!

	SLOPE DIMENSIONS: The west-facing slope is approximately 50 feet
	high, maybe 30 degree incline (pretty steep), and 200 yards wide.
	The south slope is roughly the same, but has more obstructions in 
	front of it (buildings), so maybe less useful area. The slope is
	mostly tall grass, bushes, and small trees. Not too hazardous for
	planes.

	HOURS FOR USE: Anytime, far as I can tell. I have flown there weekdays
	at lunch, and all day weekends. No one seems to mind. 


	GENERAL COMMENTS: This is the best site I know of in the West Suburban
	area of Boston. When the wind is directly from the west, it is GREAT!
	With 10MPH of wind or less, bring your 2 meter floater or any hand
	launch. For >10MPH, a faster and more maneuverable plane is preferable,
	although you can still ballast the floater. I wouldn't advise bigger
	sailplanes unless you really know what you're doing. 
		When the wind is from the southwest, it is still flyable, but
	much more challenging, and it seems to create a great deal of
	turbulence in the landing zone. Wind from the northeast around the
	compass to the south I consider not worth flying in.
		For you nature lovers, twice now I have been confronted by a
	Red Tail Hawk from about 20 feet away. He hovers right at the edge of
	the slope, looking me dead in the eye as if to say "let's see you do
	THIS!". Sunday I had my camera with me and got a couple shots of the
	superior little beast.
		And if you own a kite, bring that too! 

    I flew at Bose with Dave this summer. At times I couldn't ballast my
    Gnome enough to comfortably fly. I'm looking at a specific model for
    slope soaring next year and was wondering what people recommended. One
    guy was out there with a Dodgeson Orbiteer that flew nice. I've looked
    at the Sig Ninja and a few otheres but was wondering what other, more
    experienced slopers found to work well. (I know pretty much anything 
    can be used but what are people actually flying?)
    
    I'm looking for something durable, cheap enough to be expendable, and 
    snappy enough to keep the Panic flier in me amused.

    Well, although I have yet to do any slope soaring, I am in the
    process of building a sloap plane. Namely the Sig Ninja. It should
    be ready to cover in about a week. It will be available for inspection
    at the DECRCM meeting next Tuesday.
    
    The Ninja has a 58 inch foam wing sheeted in 1/16 balsa. A single wing
    hold down dowl in the front, and bolted down in the back. Center
    section is reinforced with 2 inch fiberglass. Wing section is the
    Eppler 374. The entire fuse is lite ply. It makes for a very strong 
    structure which I'll probably need. Total weight is estimated at 30 to
    32 ounces. It a 2 channel ship (elevator and ailerons) with the option
    of putting in a third channel for rudder. I'm keeping mine 2 channel.
    
    Construction is fairly straight forward with the typical Sig tab/notch
    construction method. Die cutting was fair and wood was good overall
    with a couple of not so good pieces. For example, the bottom fuse
    piece, which is full length, was twisted. That gave me fits keeping the
    fuse straight.
    
    It looks like it's going to be a very fast flying airplane both in it's
    ability to fly fast, and the NECESSITY to fly it fast. I'm planning on
    covering it per the picture wich is all black with color trim on the
    wing tips and horizontal stab tips.
    
    Steve

    Steve,
    
    A couple of questions. Are you installing/do they show a tow hook 
    position? How's the fuselage size for radio installation. Do they 
    recommend standard/mini/micro servos?
    
    This kit was pretty high on my choice list. I'm looking forward to 
    seeing it next week.

    Jim,
    
    	The kit will accept standard size servo's (according to Sig). All
    the electronics and the elevator servo go in a compartment forward of
    the wing. There appears to be plenty of room. The section under the wing 
    is empty. They show the alieron servo mounted upright in the wing but I 
    have my doubts. It might fit, but I'll have to see. You can always lay it 
    down if it doesn't. I havn't even looked at the plans in so far as tow
    hooks go because I wasn't considering it. It does, say in the
    instructions that you can put it up on a high start. It STRESSES
    however that your flights will be SHORT. I also remember reading
    something in the instructions about being able to thermal is EXTREAMLY
    STRONG thermals. In other words, the Ninja is STRICTLY for slope
    flying.

    That's pretty much what I expected for "thermal performance". Put in
    the tow hook. A high start launch will allow you to trim it out without
    the turbulence of the slope initially and get you three mistakes high to 
    get used to it. They glide like bricks but you can have a LOT of fun from 
    that height.
    
    I'm making my Xmas list and I want a reasonable chance at stuff getting 
    ordered before the rush.

    I flew my Graupner CIRRUS, an ancient 3 Meter thermal glider on slopes
    with  s t r o n g  wind (maybe 20 knots and above), it flew great. I 
    missed manoeuverability though (2-channel). 
    Currently I'm flying my 3.5 Meter (138 inch) ASW24 from ROBBE, it
    accepts winds from almost zero (see Note 'Winter gliders') up to
    high winds (maybe 20 knots or more). It looks very realistic and even
    arobatics are a thrill to do. The rolls are slow and somewhat
    realistic, inverted flight is possible (if you have the guts to do).
    
    I'd say you can fly every glider at the slope, my friends from the PPSS
    are flying everything from Gentle Lady to Mueller KING and the ICON.
    It always depend what Wind there is (as the limiting factor) and what
    you expect from slope soaring. If you like to PANIC, this small gliders
    might be perfect, maybe not in light wind. If you like it scale, voila.
    
                      \\
                       \ \                    __
                        \  \                  \ \
                         \  \                  \ \
                          \  \                / \_\
                           \  \              /LO |
		       .o^^^--------==========___/
		      <      \  \-''
		       '-___-'\  \            
			       \  \
                                \  \          Holm- und Rippenbruch,
                                 \ \
                                  \\                          Bernd

    SLOPE NAME:  Carnival Hill = Whiting Hill

    LOCATION:    Wilton, New Hampshire,   35 minutes west of Nashua
                 The slope is about 800 yards behind and above the town hall.

    WIND DIRECTION:  From the east by southeast      +- 45 degrees?
                     If the wind is from the west, use your Hi-Start.

    DIRECTIONS:  From Milford (Rt 101, Rt 13, Rt 122, Rt 101A) take 101
                 west past, and south of, Wilton village.  At the flashing
                 yellow light (Abbot Hill Rd) take the side road north and
                 down a few hundred yards into the west end of the village. 
                 When you get to the village center, before you turn onto
                 Main Street,  the town hall will be to your right on the
                 north side of Main Street.  There is a small street before
                 it, angling off to the left behind it and upwards. Take
                 that road and immediately at a cross road turn left. 
                 After a couple hundred yards this road will bend up and to
                 the right at what is technically a cross road.  Another
                 hundred yards past a private garage, then past the highway
                 department garage, and two another hundred yards to the
                 base of the slope.  Park on or near the road.

    DESCRIPTION: Facing this road, the slope is in a very large hayfield
                 with a flat at the base and the hayfield continuing behind
                 the slope.  It is essentially free of trees and shrubs ---
                 just open grass.  The field is about 1/4 mile wide and 1/3
                 mile front-to-back, the flat is about 200 feet deep, and
                 the slope is about 25%, rising about 80 feet in 300.  The
                 launch point is roughly near the center of the field.  

    CONSTRAINTS: The field belongs to the town and is intended for public
                 recreational use.  Under the control of the Selectmen, the
                 field is hayed by a local farmer; that's why it is clear
                 of rocks, weeds, shrubs, and trees.  Nothing is permitted
                 to mess up the hay crop, so you should stay off it when
                 the hay is high and soon to be cut.  No vehicles allowed.

                 The radio situation is pretty good.  Although there are
                 several pilots in the area,  there are no organized R/C
                 fields for many miles.  But, as always, caveat aviator.

		Slope Site: Tufts, Westboro
		---------------------------

	LOCATION: Westboro, Mass. (near Tufts University Veterinary School)

	DIRECTIONS: It is located on Rt. 30 approximately 2 or 3 miles
	west of the rotary in Westboro center. The slope is on the north 
	side of the road, just before you reach the university buildings.
	There is a large cow pasture on the south side of the road.
	
	WIND DIRECTION:	Ideal is a north/northwest wind. Any other wind 
	direction is probably unflyable (for slope, anyway). 

	LANDING AREA: Lots of room to land on a very gentle slope. Go too
	far back and you are either on the road or over the barbed wire
	fence and into cowpat territory.

	OBSTACLES: This is a pretty open area. Again, too far back and there
	is a road, trees, and cow field. At the bottom of the slope is a 
	small corn field (cow fodder?) then the woods begin. 

	SLOPE DIMENSIONS: The area is quite wide, maybe 300 yards. The slope 
	is gentle, maybe 30 feet of vertical over a 200 foot distance. The
	steepness and extent of the slope varies across its width. You can
	land anywhere on the slope; it is mostly covered in clover (right 
	now, anyway).

	HOURS FOR USE: Anytime I would suppose. Seems to be an unused piece
	of land, with the exception of the corn field.

	GENERAL COMMENTS: I flew here once on an EXTREMELY windy day. It was
	flyable, but most of the lift zone seemed to be "blown away" by the
	strong wind. Just guessing, I would say it's a good site for light to
	moderate wind, using a lightweight thermal ship. I don't imagine it
	would be good for fast slopers because it isn't steep enough.

    I have successfully flown the following gliders from various ridges
    in upstate NY: Oly650,Gnome,Gemini,Paragon,Elekto-Uhu,Scale BG-10,
    and 2-meter Sagitta.  The only ship I was never able to keep up was
    a Pierce-Aero Ridgerat, regardless of wind strength.  I do not think
    that the ridges I fly are steep enough to keep a true slope glider
    up.  So before you waste time building a slope only glider, make sure 
    you have a placew to fly it.
    
    Regards,
    
    Jim

    Just out of curiosity, has anyone checked out any of the local ski
    areas as possible slope sites?????? Anything worth while????
    
    Steve

I went up Mt. Wachusett once this summer. There really wasn't any place to fly
at the peak, but on the way down the road cut through a ski run that looked 
just barely wide enough to slope. I tried a couple flights and found that it 
was just a little too narrow for comfort, and landings were kind of tough. The 
big problem is that there isn't enough open space there, too many trees. (For
those who don't know, Wachusett is in Princeton, Mass.)

I also checked out Nashoba Valley in Littleton, and it's pretty much the same
situation, too narrow. It would be a lot better if they didn't have those 
blasted chairlifts running right up the middle of the slope! 

By the way, most ski slopes have northern exposure (to minimize melting and 
maximize frostbite), so you need a north wind.

Dave

    
    
Well, I finally got out to test fly the Ninja this Sunday. It was plenty
windy (at least 20 MPH) so I figured it would be a good test. The site
I chose for the test flight was the Lancaster conference center. This
site was chosen for 2 reasons. First, it's only about 7 minutes from home.
Second, there were two potential hills. One fairly steep hill overlooking
the building site for the proposed Lancaster plant, and the second a
more gentle slope directly at the back and sloping away from the conference
center.

I arrived about 12 noon and, not having a key to the gate, had to park down
at the bottom of the hill and walk up to the top. The first thing I discovered
was that the nice steep slope off to the side had sprouted trees everywhere.
Flying there was out of the question. The back slope, however was mostly
open and the wind was blowing right up the hill. There was a hawk effortlessly
soaring above the hill squawking away as though I had invaded his territory.

I put the Ninja together and checked out all control surfaces. Everything was
ready. Standing about 50 feet out in front of the house, I gave the Ninja
a mighty heave and immediately hit myself in the back of the head knocking
my hat off and sending the Ninja into a flat spin about 10 yards out in
front of me. It settled gently to the ground and I, grateful that I was
alone, picked up my hat and plane to try it again.

This time, I got a clean launch and the Ninja darted out into the wind and
headed down the slope. Not having flown for about 3 weeks, I had a
tendency to over control and the ship is very responsive on its own. I got
nervous as it started to fly down the slope and turned back into the hill.
At this point with my jittery fingers and a tail wind, the Ninja just did
a vertical (flat) landing into the hill. The first flight was a little shaky 
but otherwise uneventful and short. The second flight was pretty much the same
as my fingers were still calming down and I was not letting plane soar out 
over the hill.

By the third flight I had managed to get the Ninja stable after the launch
and tried making turns into the wind flying back and forth across the slope.
This worked pretty well although the plane really tends to loose altitude
in a turn. By the time I made my second turn it was too low to do anything
but land. The third landing was in a small tree. I was able to reach it
from the ground.

The forth flight saw me giving the sticks a break and getting some decent
launches. The Ninja would go straight out from launch and suddenly go
vertical about 30 feet. It seems as though that as far as the lift went
however. I could make a couple of turns and then with down drafts and
general buffeting, my altitude was once again gone. Forth landing was in
a small bush.

From that point on, it seems that on about every other launch, the Ninja would
hit that monster lift and then as soon as it found it, forget where it was
and start on its way down again. On the last landing, which wasn't meant
to be the last landing, it speared into the hill like it was going for
landing points and broke the wing hold down bulkhead that the wing dowl
goes through. This is not a weakness of the airplane, but rather a mistake
in building. The bulkhead is supposed to be one piece, but because I goofed,
was two pieces and it broke along the glue joint. I didn't have it reinforced
enough. Now I do.

My overall impression is that it's an excellent slope plane. Being a highly 
aerobatic ship, the wind has no trouble picking it up on it's side. There's 
no inherent stability fighting the forces of the wind. It recovers very 
quickly though. Although it looks fast and performs best at speed, it will 
also slow right down. It penetrates very well. Even a bit too well maybe. 
With todays strong winds, it still would have gone out much further if I had 
let it. In fact, that was one of the problems. I was always trying to keep it 
close and never went looking for any lift further down the slope. In trying to 
keep it close, I never let it get up to speed and generate any lift of it's 
own, which also meant making alot of turns costing altitude. I think the Ninja 
would be a poor performer in anything less than 10 MPH winds. It's just not a 
floater. It's meant to fly. Today (Sunday) was NOT too much wind for the Ninja. 
If you can find a good slope with a decent updraft, this plane would be a 
fantastic performer. I think the Lancaster house is an adequate site and I'll 
try it again now that I'm more familiar with the ship.

For those who might wish to build one, I would recommend the following.
First, build it with the rudder option rather than just two channel. Anyone
who fly's gliders knows that the ability to make nice flat turns is practically
a must. I find that it is no different with a slope ship. I lost most of my
altitude in the turns having to bank the plane with the ailerons. Second, build
it with a finger hole in the bottom of the fuse for launching. I plan on
making this modification. Although I got good launches, they would have been
much better and much more powerful with that added leverage. Finally, set
the control throws to "at least" the manufactures specs. Both my aileron and
elevator throws were short but I figured that would be good (kind of like
low rates) for getting used to the ship. When I got home, I increased all
the throws.

It's not very forgiving and it keeps you honest, but I really like the
Ninja and look forward to many more hours of sloping.

All right, Steve! We have another sloper. Good to know about the Lancaster site,
I've never checked it out.

You don't know HOW relieved I was to find I'm not the only one who has clocked
himself in the back of the head on a hand launch. I did it again yesterday at
Bose. Damn, that's embarrassing. My first reaction was to look around hoping 
nobody saw me do it, the next reaction was to start looking for the plane, which
luckily got up 30 feet or so, with the wing apparently in no worse shape than
my head.

John Blaser was at Bose with some sort of Bob Martin creation. It had a 65" flat
wing with ailerons and a standard tail configuration. I was impressed. The turns
were very tight and immediate, and it out-soared the Flinger in the lift. Not 
quite as agile though. I think I'd like to get an aileron slope ship next.

About that finger hole in the Ninja: If you cut through the fuse bottom, I 
recommend also strengthening that area with ply. I found that to be a 
significant weak spot on the Flinger, and it's now "reinforced" with Duct tape.

Dave

    Dave,
    
    	The Bob Martin ship sounds like it might be the Talon. Looks like
    a mover.
    
    	On the finger hole, the bottom of the fuse on the Ninja IS plywood.
    As a matter of fact, the whole fuse is ply. The plan is to cut the
    hole, put in the former, bulkhead, thing your finger goes on, or 
    whatever you want to call it and put triangle stock on the 4 corners
    for reinforcement. Depending on how it looks (feels) I may also
    reinforce around the hole with triangle stock. I was also considering
    putting a cover (internal) over the hole that would be hinged. That
    way when you push your finger in you push the cover up and throw it.
    When the plane takes off, the cover drops back down filling the hole
    and keeping the fuse streamlined. I wanted to make it spring loaded but
    that sounds like too much work.

    Making it spring loaded would be a breeze....

    just take a piece of small music wire and and make a couple of wraps
    around, say a 1/4" dowel, leaving a long tail off each end.  Bend one
    tail about an inch from the coil, so that it is parallel to the axis
    of the spring.  Then mount the spring in the fuse, with the spring as
    close to the hinge line as possible.  Anchor the unbent tail to the
    fuse.  The bent tail should go across the hole door.  Push on the
    door to open..  When you remove your finger, the door should move
    back in place...

    If someone wants to try this, and can't visualize what I have 
    described, please feel free to call or write!

    cheers,
    jeff

Re: -.2
	No, it definitely was not a Talon, it was much bigger than that. 
	Dimensions more like a 2 meter plane. He told me the name but I hadn't
	heard of it before.

	On the spring loaded hatch: don't forget rubber bands as a possibility.
	Cheap, easy to replace, lots of sizes available. Or, just leave the hole
	open. I don't think it seriously compromises the plane's performance.

Dave

    
    
       As the title states, I am considering coverting my damaged
    Electrostreak into a slope soarer. During its last fight, the wing bolt
    broke loose, and the wing seperated from the plane in flight. What was
    left was an intact wing, and a fusalage that was disintigrated from the
    nose to the back of the wing. 
       I was planning on rebuilding it as an electric. In the mean time,
    all the talk about slope soaring has got my interest. I was thinking
    about building a Bob Martin Talon, as it has always looked like an
    interesting plane to me. The thing I wasn't crazy about is the expense
    of an extra reciever and micro servos. I also am not looking forward to
    the immediate expense of rebuilding the Astro cobalt motor that was
    damaged in the Electrostreak crash.
       This got me thinking about a comment the Evil One made when he
    originally saw the Electrostreak- gee, that would make a good slope
    soarer. My thought was to kill two birds with one stone ( or build
    2 airplanes with one wing).
       My plan is to rebuild the fuselage of the Electrostreak, but
    streamline the nose. I would add a finger hoe in the bottom of the
    fuselage, bolt the wing back on, ballast the pane as needed, and I am
    off and sloping. At a later time, I will rebuild a stock Eectrostreak
    fuselage, and use the same wing. This will delay additional expense,
    and more importantly, not bring another kit into the house to be built.
       I feel a slope soarer would be a better plane to add to my current 
    inventory than an electric pattern ship (Electrostreak).
    
       Any thoughts about the viability of this conversion?
    
       I believe the weight without the 1200MAH bATTERY PACK /SPEED
       CONTROL/ MOTOR would be about 15 - 16 oz.
    
                                   Any help would be appreciated,
    
                                                        DW2

    I think the 'streak would make an excellent slope soarer.  (Call it
    SlopeStreak???)  In fact, in the original construction article, Tom
    Stryker (the designer) mentions that it would probaly fly very well
    as a slope soarer.  You should also see the article in the newest
    RCM.  A guy built a 2 meter glider wing for his Electrostreak so he
    could have a nice electric glider.  You could do the same so you
    would eventually have a pattern wing, 2 meter glider wing, a glider
    fuselage and electric fuse.  You would get FOUR planes from 2!!!

    I also was thinking of flying the 'streak on the slope.  I planned
    on leaving in the motor and spinner (minus prop) and just leave out
    the motor battery pack.  I would just have 7 oz. of cobalt "nose
    weight".  :-)
                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |            Happy Landings!
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|              - Dan Miner
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |     " The Earth needs more OZONE,
                      |      /                       not Castor Oil!! "    
                      |_____/

At 16 ounces I bet the Streak would be great on the slope! That's a good idea.
Now all you need is a nice 20 mph westerly wind that's warmer than 40 degrees.

Another suggestion: extend the nose a bit so you don't need quite so much weight
to balance it.

DW1

    Same thing I'm planning on doing with an Ace GLH II (.049) that I'm
    building over the winter. Like Dave mentions, just lengthen the nose so
    you can move the Rx battery pack forward to help balance it out.
    
    Dan, I'd be careful with that expensive nose weight. Slope ships have a
    tendency to land hard and I don't think I's want MY cobalt motor
    leading the way. Sounds like a good way to bend the armature.

                                        
          
          I have finally finished the work to convert my Electrostreak to
     a "Slopestreak" (I am adopting Dan Miner's name suggestion).
          I extended the nose a couple of inches while rebuilding the
    fuselage from the trailing edge forward. Initially I thought I would
    still have major balance problems (tail heavy), but it worked out
    fairly well. I chose for simplicity sake to keep the elevator and
    rudder micro servos in their original location (at the wing trailing
    edge. This required about 2 oz of lead in the nose, and a 500 mah
    square pack right behind the nose to balance everything off. In the
    future, I am thinking of building a differnent shape 500 mah pack that
    would allow be to put it right at the nose, and therby possibly
    eliminate another 1 oz.
          As it came out, the plane weighs 21 oz. It had a wing area of 340
    sq inches, for a wing loading of 8.999 oz/sq ft.
          I was anxious to try it out, so I solicited some over the phone
    coaching from DW1 (Dave Walter). After about a 20 minute conversation,
    I felt comfortable enough to give crashing a try. I went out yesterday
    to the Gardner RC field to relook at a couple of possible slope sights.
    The wind is usually always blowing up there, so of course yesterday it
    was almost still. I still tried a couple of short flights.
         
         Results: 5 flight averaging 10 sec apiece.
    
                  Didn't hit myself in the head while hand launching,
                  although the other guy there with me said I narrowly
                  missed a couple of times.
    
                  Spend a lot of time retrieving the pane after it landed
                  on the slope and proceeded to slide to the bottom on the
                  ice covered snow (Lucky I was using the short hill)
    
      It seems as though the plane will do very nicely when I get a
      chance to fly it in the wind. It seems very responsive, and launches
      and glides fairly well. 
    
               Can't wait to really give this a go!  

	Good goin', Dan! If you want a real rush, wait for a day when the wind
	is screaming up the slope so hard you can't keep your hat on, and you
	have to lean forward during gusts to keep from being pushed back. A 
	day when you find it difficult to simply hold the plane in one hand
	while preparing to launch. That's good for a squirt of adrenaline!

	Can't wait to see it fly.

	DW1

If you feel like the plane will come out of your hand and you are wondering
about which direction it will go when released, IT IS GOING TO BE A GREAT SLOPE
DAY.  If the wind is really howling, take a step or two down the slope to launch
so you stay out of the transistion area right at the top of the slope.  Also I
have notice there are times when the wind is blowing strong enough that you 
dont get as much lift because the wind that should be having a verticle 
motion as it goes up the slope gets sheared off at the top by the force of the
horizontal wind.  Hows dat for some theory....

Mark Antry

>  Also I
>have notice there are times when the wind is blowing strong enough that you 
>dont get as much lift because the wind that should be having a verticle 
>motion as it goes up the slope gets sheared off at the top by the force of the
>horizontal wind.  Hows dat for some theory....

Yes! This I have noticed too. When it seems like there should be monster lift,
the plane just won't climb above a certain height. There seems to be a moderate
wind speed that is optimum, at least for the hill I've sloped.

Dave

    
    
      YES, I was crazy enough to try sloping again today. It was
    quite a learning experience.  
      I took my Slopestreak up to the RC field in Gardner again during
    lunch time. The winds were easily 30 +, blowing out of the NW. The
    small hill heads West, so I knew I would not get optimimum conditions
    off the hill, but I tried anyway.
      I only did 3 (quick) flights. I parked the car into the wind so I
    wouldn't damage the plane when removing it from the hatch. It was
    already assembled, so all I needed to do was turn the reciever battery
    on. It was quite a trek just to get to the launch point and not have
    the wind damage the plane.
      On the first launch, the plane was literally sucked out of my hand. I
    was able to get it to penetrate into the wind for a few seconds, and 
    managed to fly across the slope twice before landing on the slope. The
    plane immediatey began to slide on the ice to the bottom of the hill,
    so I got my exercise retrieving it. As I was climbing back up the
    hill, I had to keep myself between the wind and the plane to prevent the
    wind from damaging the plane (It was windy!).
      The second flight was short, the plane simply rose verticaly 30', and
    was unable to penetrate the wind, so it just landed next to me.
      On the third flight, I was able to cross the slope 4 times before
    landing again on the slope. Apon landing, the wing bolt hold down again
    ripped loose, and the wing came off, but the plane was not damaged.
    However, I was now faced with chasing a 5 oz wng blowing up the hill in
    a 30 mph wind, and the fuselage sliding down the hill. I managed to get
    the wing, fuselage and radio back to the car without damage, but when I
    reached the car, the hatch had blown shut. This required me to put the
    radio on the ground, and loop the neck strap over the fuselage so it 
    wouldn't blow away. I then took the wing around to the side door, put
    the wing in the car, and hit the hatch release. I finally got
    everything in the car. I noticed that the aileron tip had been badly
    scraped from sliding down the hill, but otherwise, no damage.
    
        I think I need to add ballast to the plane before attempting to
    fly again in such a strong wind. The original Electrostreak had a wing
    loading of about 16 oz/sq ft, and thats about what it would need for a
    day like today. At 9 oz/sq ft, It just couldn't penetrate the wind.
        I will strengthen the wing bolt hold down before flying again. I
    also confirmed my thinking that the wind really has to be blowing
    directly up the hill for maximum results.
        Despite all the hassle, I figure it was worth it, and besides, how
    many other HTA'ers flew today!
    
                              

	DW2: Brave man, flying today! Congrats getting it down in such good
	shape. On days like this I would end up snapping the wing 1 out of 
	2 times.

	On the wind direction: I found that if the wind is more than 45 degrees
	off the slope, it's virtually unflyable, and landings behind the slope
	seem to get particularly tricky. Like there's more turbulence back there
	than when the wind hits the slope dead on.

	Wasn't it awful cold out?

	DW1

    DW2 and I took advantage of the weather and met at Bose on saturday.
    The wind was coming at the corner (from the SW) but we still got
    airborne and had fun. The SlopeStreak flies fins and really darts back 
    and forth. Plenty of throw. I flew my Gentle Lady with Flaps and had a 
    lot of fun. I found that I could control my penetration with the flaps 
    (on the throttle stick) and got up pretty high a couple of times. I 
    ended up landing on a tip panel and snapping it but it was fixed in about 
    1/2 an hour last night. Dan found out why you don't want to get too far 
    to the left of the corner but the plane didn't look too bad. A very 
    exciting time and lots of fun.

    
    
       As Jim Reith mentioned, I finally was baptized to slop soaring this
    past Saturday. When I arrived at 2:30, Jim was already airborne. After
    consulting with Jim, I decided to try my Electra for the first flight
    to get the hang of it. When removing it from the car, the rudder broke
    loose, but Jim's ZAP saved the day. I launched it back on the flat, 
    away from the turbulance of the slope. I then headed over the slope.
    I used intermittent electric power to save my A*@ several times. I was 
    able to land back on the top of the hill in the only bush in the field (go
    figure!).
       It was time to bite the bullet and fly the Slopestreak. The first
    flight went very well, and the plane flew very nicely for about 3 - 4
    minutes. It is very responsive and I was pleased at its flight
    characteristics. I was able to execute a normal landing back on the top.
       The next three flights were not so good. On the second flight, the
    wind blew it to the left. I tried to clear the trees at the top of the
    slope, but missed by inches. The plane tumbled to the ground, but the
    only damage was ripped monokote on the wing. The wind was becoming
    lighter and more intermittent by this time, so on the third flight, I
    ended up dumping the plane in a small tree. The vertical stab broke
    this time, but Jim's ZAP again saved the day. On the last flight, we
    were trying to decide if the wind was still strong enough (It wasn't)
    , but I threw caution (Streak) to the wind, and tried again. This time
    I had pressed my luck too far. After a couple of passes across the
    slope, the plane got caught in the wind on the left side of the hill.
    It was behind the small trees when it finally hit on the slope about
    75' to the left. Damage: The fuselage cracked where it had been
    weakened from a previous crash, the Wing had leading edge damage, and
    several holes punched in the monocote. I figure about 3 - 4 hours of
    work, and I will be back in business.
        Unfortunately, by this time, Jim was also out of business with 
    a damaged wing. He also just missed the top of the slope by inches when
    trying to land. I was very impressed with the lift he could generate
    with the flaps on the Gentle Lady, a couple of times he really got some 
    altitude
        I tried the Electra one more time. I pointed it into the wind about
    30' above the slope, cut the motor, and essentially had a kite without
    a string. WHen landing back on the field, I needed to use the electric
    power to just keep moving forward.
    
    
        Summary: I had a blast despite the damage to the plane. I chalk it
                 up to being low on the learning curve in a new aspect of
                 the hobby. I am hooked, and will be back to try again.
                 However, I think I will only fly at Bose "mountain" when
                 the wind is strong, and from the West. The Southwest corner is
                 just too small and tricky. I will also arrive earlier in
                 the day when the wind is usually stronger.
    
       P.S. Steve, I see why the Ninja is built with plywood, and has
            sheeted foam wings, these things really take a pounding!       
    
    
                            Jim, thanks for the coaching,
    
                                                       DW2

	Conditions looked good for sloping Sunday so I went over to Bose to
	see what was up, even though I had no plane of my own to fly. There
	were two people there when I showed up, and by the time I left there
	were 5 planes in the air! I never saw that many during the summer, yet
	here it was Feb.3 with temps in the 50's and a nice 15 MPH wind right up the
	the west face. And me planeless. Arrrrggghhh!

	There was a nice variety of models in the air and I thought I'd comment on
	on how they flew (from an observer's perspective, that is):

Gentle Lady
	The old standby. Not particulary fast or nimble, but it easily out-
	climbed all other planes there. The guy flying it was somewhat new to 
	slope flying, but he had little problem with it, and only needed help
	with the landings. I'm convinced that virtually any 2M floater can be
	flown at this slope.

Bob Martin Bobcat
	This plane was built with the polyhedral wing option, and the pilot
	(Doug) added around 25% to the fin and rudder area. For a 2M, it was
	very maneuverable, and this guy was a pretty aggressive pilot. He didn't
	have any qualms about doing loops at eyelevel, or even below the lip of
	the slope. This plane also climbed very nicely.

Wristocrat
	This is a handlauch glider that the pilot modified by adding flaps. He
	was the only one there brave enough to offer to let me fly his plane. It
	was unballasted, and didn't penetrate very well with the flaps in the 
	normal position. Then, while I was flying, he trimmed the flaps into the
	reflex position and it completely changed the way it flew! It was like
	shifting from low gear to high gear on the fly; suddenly I was able to
	move around the slope quite freely, although I had to pay more attention
	to altitude since its lift went down. I didn't land the plane myself, 
	but I watched his landings, and with the flaps it came in much slower
	than the other gliders. I was impressed.

Sig Ninja
	Something was wrong here. Either the plane had problems, or the pilot
	did. I suspect some of both. This guy must had crashed on the slope at
	least 6 times while I was there. He fiddled with noseweight and seemed
	to get it to his satisfaction, but to my eye the plane still wasn't 
	flying right. He was flying it quite slowly, and lost a lot of altitude
	in his turns, which frequently left him stranded below the top of the
	slope. The plane didn't feel particulary heavy, so I don't think that
	was the problem. I hope Steve Smith's flys better than this one did.

Bob Martin Talon
	A gent named Wolfe brought this plane, the oldest surviving ship in his
	hanger. First time I've ever seen one. It's pretty small, has a one-
	piece built up wing with the canopy integrated into it. The split 
	stabilator is mounted low on the tail. He didn't know what the airfoil
	was, but it was flat on the bottom up to the spar. Looked like a thin
	E205 (anyone know what airfoil the Talon uses?). The glider is aileron
	controlled with no movable rudder. This thing was like a little
	barracuda among goldfish!  Very fast, and quite nimble, it needed a 
	moderate amount of wind to fly well. No floater, this. Had the turning
	radius of a Bumblebee. Landings were a bit exciting, and more than once
	the pilot almost clocked a kite flyer. I think he could have built it
	lighter, then added ballast if necessary for a better flying plane, but
	it still looked very enjoyable. Also challenging, not for a beginner.


Dave
    

    If you're serious about using it at Bose, too much rudder is never
    enough.
    
    Seriously, to pull those wings around quickly enough to keep it in the
    slope lift, you'll need all the rudder you can get. Don't forget you've
    got to push that wing tip down when the breeze gets under it.

    Don't run away yet, Dan. You're in the right note but Kay's confused again.
    Kay, Dan is building the Spirit to fly at Bose but he will be test
    flying it and trimming it in Acton this friday, weather permitting.
    
    I think this is the right place for the questions he's asked since
    he'll soon find out how much rudder throw he needs to dial in. The only
    better place might be in the "So you want to fly gliders" note in 399.*
    I'm very interested to see how the differential spoilers work in
    thermal turns and coupled on the slope.
    
    I guess I (and others) just got swept up in the building frenzy Dan's
    been in for the last week.

    Well, today was a gorgeous day for March in New England. The radio
    claimed 77 degrees as I drove back from Bose. I just wanted to say that
    the Ninja is a VERY sturdy model and even with the incredible winds,
    penetrated and flew quite well. Kay and I flew and Dave Walter got in a
    flight on the Ninja. We gathered quite a crowd at one point. My day
    ended in one of those rare events that you wish you had on video tape.
    My front hatch is held down by an internal rubber band. The band isn't
    as snug as it should be. I tossed it off the hill and about 30 feet out
    the wind gave it a good shake. It must have been violent since my
    battery decided to bail out. Hanging out the side of the plane it only
    took a couple more bounces to free the connector. Al would have been
    proud. I dutifully flew the plane all the way to the ground bending the
    sticks in hope that the capacitors would hold a second longer ;^)
    
    The interesting thing is that the plane kept flying with it's nose into
    the wind and blew back over the top of the hill where the rotor placed
    it firmly down on the ground. Very little damage. Removed the front
    wing holddown former and loosened the elevator servo. Broke the aileron
    servo arm as it tried (and lost) to exit the fuselage sideways. I've
    still got to check everything out but the wing and fuselage are
    otherwise undamaged. This is one sturdy plane.
    
    It flew very well and I got way up several times and did some loops and
    rolls. The roll rate is lower than I want but I've still got one more
    notch to move it out. The elevator is still very sensitive and I think
    I'll back off on that another notch also. I resisted the inverted
    flying due to the turbulance and orientation problems. The twin fins
    disappear behind the stab when you are flying directly away from you
    and that made me think twice about sustained inverted flight.

Bose was a humbling experience today.  The wind varied about 3 speeds -
WOW, OK, nil.  When the wind let up we would start coming down and because
of fear we would get back close to the top of the slope then BANG - wind
gusts like you couldn't believe and we would be making a controlled
crash on the back of the hill.  

Two flights - two broken nylon wing bolts.

It was really hard to carry the plane over to the edge because of the
high winds in the parking lot.  Difficult to get your plane out of
the car with out wind induced hanger rash.

Now about Jim's last flight - I almost died laughing.  The battery pack
leaving looked just like a pilot bailed out and got his parachute caught
in the canopy.  But he was able to reach back with his survival knife and
cut then line.  Then without a pilot the plane made a great emergency landing
in the parking lot behind us.

Next time it is that gusty I'll just take pictures and watch.

Back to the Zero (or Genesis).

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    The wind was southwest today and it really would have been better if it
    had been directly from the west. If it's blowing like that again...
    I'll be back! (ha ha ha ha ha ha!)

    Jim,
    
    	Glad to hear everything worked out ok. This is one of the great
    things I like about the Ninja. On a day when most people wouldn't
    think about flying, the Ninja just takes it all in stride and flies
    anyway. That front wing hold down former is a weak spot. I mentioned
    that in one of my earlier notes. I broke one too.
    
    I gave up on the stock hatch hold down method they give you in the
    instructions and just inserted a dowl. One rubber band over the top
    and that hatch aint goin nowhere.
    
    I'll look up the recommended throws tonight and post them tomorrow.
    I know I already told ya I'd do that once, but I really will tonight.
    
    Steve

    What's really nice is that it even took the uncontrolled landing in
    stride. I won't call it a crash because it remained stable all the way
    down to the ground. I just wasn't controlling it ;^)
    
    I could have been back up in the air in about 15 minutes with some 5
    minute epoxy and another servo arm. I just didn't think to bring a
    servo arm in my box of goodies. You'll have to stop down with yours
    some windy day and we can compare notes. I'll bring it along to the
    April DECRCM meeting.

Thanks for the stick time, Jim. Boy, are you brave! I'm not sure I would have
handed over a new plane to someone else on a day like this!

I felt like such a wimp, but there was no way I was going to launch my 14 oz
Predator into that gale. "A man's got to know his limitations." But I must say, 
the Ninja and the Chup performed much better than I expected. Those were pretty
nasty conditions. 

I just wish I was there to see the battery bail out. Sounds like it had quite 
enough of this flying stuff, thank you.

    Just wanted to return the favor for letting me (and my son) try the
    Predator on it's maiden day. You didn't say that you hadn't flow
    ailerons on the slope very loud ;^) For someone that was concerned, you
    managed a pretty fair loop, roll, and landing in that initial flight
    before heading back to your meeting.

    
    
    INITIAL FLIGHTS (less experienced slope flyer)
    
    		* Ailerons   1/2" up   7/16" down
    
    		* Elevator   3/8" up   3/8"  down
    
    
    
    ACCOMPLISHED PILOT (or ALL OUT aerobatics)
    
    		* Ailerons   9/16" up   1/2" down
    
    		* Elevator   1/2"  up   1/2" down
    
    
    
    C of G
    
    		INITIAL FLIGHTS    30% OR 4" back from the leading edge.
    
    		EXPERIENCED PILOT  35% OR 4 1/2" back from L.E.

    While heading down to Mansfield MA on 495 south for our Easter visit, I
    noticed what looked like an established slope site. It's off to the
    left from 495 heading south just after exit 14 (about 2 miles north of
    exit 13 - the junction with Rt95). Nice wide, clear northwest facing slope
    with what appears to be a flat top and a telltale windsock planted at
    the top. Anyone familiar with the site?

I entered a similar note in the DECRCM notesfile. The article list 5 sites on
the outer portion of the Cape. The author makes the comment "...I've flown at 14
slope soaring sites in New York and New England. Five of the best are on Cape
Cod." Each site listed has brief directions to site, which side of the Cape it's
located on, and common wind direction. My list only contains location name,
side of Cape located on, and wind direction. Here's the list:

	White Crest Beach - Ocean side, east wind
	Longnook Beach - Ocean side, northeast wind
	Head of the Meadow Beach - Ocean side, north/northeast wind
	Fisher Beach - Bay side, west wind
	Seascape Motor Inn - Bay side, southwest wind

Dunes at these sites range from 200 feet(Longnook Beach) to 75 feet(Seascape
Motor Inn) in height. If anyone wants a copy of the article, send me mail 
offline(ESCROW::PHILLIPS).

-Lamar

	Now, I don't want to start a panic, because I haven't verified the
	following information, but the word is...

	We may lose the Bose slope soaring site in a year or so. A member of
	the Charles River club called me last night and mentioned that Bose
	is planning on putting up a 6 story building right by the west slope.
	Construction supposedly begins in late '91 or early '92. He said the
	information was in one of the local newspapers. 

	It's really too bad. That's one of the nicest slopes around, and we
	don't have many of them here in the east. I'll try to get confirmation
	of this story and report back here.

	If you want to fly Bose, don't put it off until next summer!

	Dave

    
         Maybe it is early enough that we can still meet with the Bose
      architect. We could have them design the west face of the building at
      an angle. Then we would just need an elevator to the roof, and a
      sufficient roof size for landings :) :)

    When I drove up to Bose on Sunday I saw a large number of cars. I was
    out there to fly kites, but the wind was so light and kept changing
    directions that flying kites was difficult. The glider guiders were
    having a blast.
    
    There were small pockets of lift everywhere. I could tell the better
    pilots, there were several that had 10 minute flights hand launched. On
    occasion, the wind would steady out and folks would work the slope.
    
    I had mixed feelings about the large numbers. On the one hand, it was
    nice to see everyone having a good time and the conditions were such
    that the kite flyers couldn't really use the field. On the other hand,
    there really aren't that many places that kite flyers can go and not
    have to deal with other people trying to use the field.
    
    The members of Kites Over New England have worked hard to make Bose a
    reasonable place. One of the members got permission from Bose to fly
    kites (it would probably be a good thing politically for some one from
    the glider community to officially get permission from Bose too), and a
    few members spent days out there cutting down the brush.
    
    So part of me says that if there is a choice between kites and gliders,
    that the kites should win, after all, we were there first!
    
    Another part of me realizes that if I had a glider yesterday, chances
    are good that I would have had a lot of fun flying rather than watching
    people flying...
    
    	Marty Sasaki

Last Friday, I got to the Bose slope at about 6:15.  I walked over to
the lip and the wind seemed fast enough for my Ninja.  

I took it out of the car, bolted on the wing and heaved it ever the
edge.  After a few quick passes back and forth, I got too low and
disappeared behind a bush.  I tried using "The Force" to fly it while
out of sight, but managed to smack into one of the power wires down near
the road resulting in a spin and then a SPLAT onto the asphalt road
below.  Fortunately, the one car that drove by saw the pieces and drove
AROUND the wreckage instead of over it.  

I scrambled (almost tumbled) down the hill to find the damage wasn't
that bad, only a broken fuselage.  Easily field repariable.  So back to
the car where the ZAP was waiting.  After a 15 minute climb (yeah, I
know I'm too fat and out of shape) and 5 minutes with the ZAP, the Ninja
was ready to attack again.

I tossed it over the edge and again, it steadily lost altitude until I
un-intentionally caught a wingtip in the side of the hill and
cartwheeled it in the deep grass.  Nothing SHOULD have broken, but the
weakened nose broke off again.  Back to the ZAP in the car.

While I was repairing for the second time, a hawk shows up and just
parks about 50 feet above the lip.  He gets bored and starts doing
S-turns, trying to say to me: "Hey you dummy, you're flying BELOW the
lift zone - come up to where the LIFT is!".

Well, you don't have to wack me on the side of the head with a kevlar
fuselage more than once.  I toss the Ninja for the 3rd time and
concentrate on staying at or above eye level.  Hey!  It's actually
flying and not loosing too much altitude!  I'm finally getting the hang
of this slope soaring "thing"!  Then the wind let up just long enough
for me to get too low and center-punch an unsuspecting bush.  The nose
broke off AGAIN.  This time, I figured I'd go to the car and bring the
ZAP to the lip to avoid future exersize back and forth to the car. 
(Hey, I don't want to get in too good of shape - I might actually be
able to walk up those hills without stopping 7 or 8 times.  :-) 

But by now, there is so much ZAP around the broken area that the new ZAP
won't kick and I don't have any kicker with me.  After 5-10 minutes of
frustration, I decide that the wind is too light anyway and I should
give up.  Off to the hobby shop to buy a refill for my ZipKicker bottle.

I need to watch someone else do this so I can get the feel where the
lift zone is and I need to get a lighter slope ship (maybe a Chuperosa). 
I don't want to tempt the Slope Gods with the Olympic II since it's my
only "contest ship" right now.

                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |            Happy Landings!
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|              - Dan Miner
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |     " The Earth needs more OZONE,
                      |      /                       not Castor Oil!! "    
                      |_____/

    The one thing I found with my Ninja was that you needed to keep it
    flying fast. It will slow down but then the tail drops and it mushes
    along. A little down elevator picks up the speed and it glides fast and
    flat. I tried my lighter one at lunch and it definitly flies different.
    I think I might ballast it up a little and try to tune it. I may give
    it a try tonight also on the way home.

    	Most of the hills I fly on, you need to keep above horizon level, 
    and ahead of the lip of the hill. Anywhere from 0 to 80 degrees from
    the horizon is about right. About the worst thing you can do with a
    'true' slope soarer is fly too slow - the airfoil gives up, with
    predictable results. This point has been demonstrated dramatically on
    more than one occasion with my fifth scale Slingsby Dart 15.
    
    	I have to ask - what IS a Ninja?
    
    Malcolm

    The Ninja is a slope soarer kitted by Sig Manufacturing and it's a
    tapered leading edge E214 airfoiled (I think) 2 pound plane with a lite
    ply fuselage and sheet tail surfaces. Wingspan is 59 inches I believe.
    Just uses aileron and elevator for controls. This is all from memory but 
    you get the general picture. Turnabout is fair play... What's a fifth 
    scale Slingsby Dart 15?
    
    I stopped at Bose with Dan Miner last night but the wind had all but
    died. We flew the Gnome a little bit but the conditions were so light
    we never got high enough to have any aerobatic fun. Dan did seem to
    feel that he had been flying too low in the lift zone. 

    	Thanks. Now when I see a Ninja mentioned, I can picture what it
    looks like.
    	A fifth scale Dart 15 is a fifth scale (no surprises so far) model
    of a 15 metre single seat sailplane dating from the mid-sixties. The
    model is a conventional layout 118 inch span glider, with aileron,
    rudder, all-moving tailplane and airbrakes. It has a fibreglass
    fuselage with a fixed landing wheel, and obechi covered foam 2 piece
    wings with a pine leading edge. The latter gives a feeling of
    confidence in a crowded sky.
    	It's a nice flying glider that looks very realistic in flight, but
    you have to keep it moving. If you don't, most of it keeps flying but
    one or other wingtip goes on strike.
    	I'm hoping to fly it after work tonight, wind permitting.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Malcolm

    As Jim has already mentioned, I went to watch him slope soar last
    night and learned that I was basically flying below the lift zone. 
    No wonder the Ninja wasn't going up!  :-)

    My main problem was that I was taking Dave Thornberg too literally
    in his description on how to slope soar.  He says that you need to
    give your ship a good shove downwards (at a 10 degree angle or so)
    so it will get out into the lift.  Jim Reith threw his Gnome hand
    launch ship UP as if he were standing on flat land and was going for
    a high hand launch.  The Ninja will require something in between, I
    think.  Better yet, maybe I'll get around to mount a tow hook on the
    Ninja and use my upstart to get it out over the lift.  (Thornberg
    did suggest that too, but I chose to ignore this advice...)

                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |            Happy Landings!
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|              - Dan Miner
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |     " The Earth needs more OZONE,
                      |      /                       not Castor Oil!! "    
                      |_____/

    	If the plane is big and/or heavy, you need to launch slightly
    nose-down to ensure that flying speed and control authority are not
    lost during the first few seconds after launch. With an HLG, they are
    light enough to give a good hard chuck, maintaining speed at the start.
    Just remember to get the nose back down before getting into a stall.
    Once clear of the hill, you can think about getting up into the lift
    zone.
    	Now I know what a Ninja is, I should think you could give it a good
    hard Level throw.
    	It's the old glider rule - forward stick = down, back stick still =
    down.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Malc  

    The Gnome likes to pull up when it gets going too fast so even though I
    throw it slightly up, it will pull up into a stall if you don't catch
    it. A blip of down elevator tops it off and you have some height to
    trade off for position. When I flew the 42oz Ninja in the 25+MPH winds,
    I threw it pretty much straight out and it ended up about 20 degrees up
    in front of the hill. The new 32oz version should do better in light
    conditions and the section under the wing is open for ballast as
    needed. I must agree with the down = both stick directions. My Ninja
    has very gentle stall characteristics and the more up I pull, the more
    it just mushes along. I find that I have to keep the nose down and the
    speed up to keep it flying efficiently. I might get a chance to stop
    down again tonight if the wind looks good when I get through up
    north...

    	Most of my aircraft do the same. What I tend to do is put the
    elevator trim forward for launch - the amount depending on the plane in
    use  & the wind speed. Once I'm clear of the hill (after all, that's
    the bit that does all the damage), I return to normal trim. I also trim
    slightly forward for landing, to maintain a bit of a safety margin
    speed wise when you go into the reduced windspeed behind the lift area.
    
    I'm now off to put theory into practice: my wife's got a meeting at
    home, I've got to keep out of the way, and there's a breeze blowing.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Malcf

    Ajai, Steve Smith built mine from a kit - then I bought it from him.
    Jim's is scratch built from the plans.

    Yep, Dan's right. I've got wing templates for those who'd like to cut a
    set of cores. I might extend the wingspan a little to bring the heavy
    fuselage down to normal wing loading and have two complete slope ships
    to mix and match.

    Whew ! Just in time, youse guys get me fired up to repair my Ninja.
    I was going to anyway, before the 13 July contest at Springerville,
    Az. We will be flying off the fabled Greens' Peak, where a landing
    at the bottom of the hill (>1000 ft., how's that for a workout, Dan
    ?) means dodging the resident elk herd. Thermal contest on 14 July
    at Springerville airport. This is the resurrection of the old C.A.S.L.
    (Central Az. Soaring League) vs. A.S.A. contest series. When last
    we did this, in the 70's, we were known as the Arses. Albq. Radio
    Soaring Enthusiasts.
    
    Terry
    

    No flying reports lately, so I thought I'd add one.
    
    I went flying after work yesterday, on a west facing site we have
    nearby called Ladle Hill, the site of an old incomplete iron age
    fortress (they probably couldn't get the budget to finish it...). 
    	Conditions were really great: a clear blue sky, nice and warm, with 
    just my scale glider and some birds sharing the lift. No-one else was
    on the hill. And the lift was sooooo smooth - er, actually it was a bit
    rough, but I didn't want to spoil the picture. The rough patches
    actually seemed to be caused by thermal activity where the sun was 
    heating the hillside.
    	A friend of mine arrived about 15mins later & suggested I land as
    he'd brought a couple of cans of beer (The sort of friend you really
    appreciate). A nice square approach, final leg into wind, airbrakes out
    and managed to slide straight into the ditch of the earthworks. Thats
    what comes of being in such a hurry to get down.
    	One can of beer later, and back into the air, now in the company of
    a 3 meter Algebra. About a 3/4 hour flight, alternating between
    climbing in the now weak thermal lift, exploring along the ridge a
    little way and a few high speed low passes just for fun, and it was
    time to go.
    	All work days should end like this.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Malcolm

    Work and family keep getting in the way. The wind has been right for
    our Bose site lately but I've been too busy to enjoy it. I tried to get
    down there last night but the wind had died down too much by the time I
    got there and I couldn't sustain myself (with the Ninja) in the 10mph
    winds. The Gnome that I flew the last time sits awaiting repairs from
    my son's efforts this past weekend. Anothe typical novice session where
    they keep flying as long as the plane allows. Minor damage to the Gnome
    but no time to repair it yet.
    
    I need to get to the hill during the day so I can enjoy the mid-day
    gales we've been having.

    At our Az. contest last weekend we were supposed to have a slope
    fun fly on saturday, but the winds were 180 degrees out for flying
    off of Greens Peak. 
    
    Some of us wandered around the area late in the day looking for
    possible alternatives.
    Bruce and I decided to take a look at Greens Peak just to say we'd
    been there, but got on the wrong road and spotted a nice ~800 foot
    conical hill (all hills are conical around Springerville since they
    are all volcanic in origin). An open gate off the hywy. and a
    convenient road to the base, soon had us slogging up the slope.
    The loose lava cinders underfoot and the 7200 ft. altitude convinced
    us that maybe halfway up would be just fine.
    
    The Ninja had never been flown since repairing the fuselage-in-four-
    pieces incident on the hi-start. In fact it had never been on a
    slope before.
    Bruces' Southwind was a veteran.
    
    Off they went into 15-18 mph breeze. Wow ! it flys. Other than needing
    full up trim to fly level, the Ninja was doing great but it would
    have been happier in 20+ winds.
    The lift zone was far out in front of the hill, but extended several
    hundred yards to the right and half that to the left, where piles
    of tailings from a pumice mine messed up the flow.
    
    I had to land once, several hundred feet down the hill when I got
    in too close and dropped out of the lift.
    
    Got in two flights for 30+ minutes, then Bruce begin to worry about
    his rcvr. batt. so we packed it in and headed back to town.
    
    Green's Peak is ~1000 ft. and you can drive near the top, so if S-SW
    winds are assured some time in the future, we might consider the
    3.5 hour drive worth it again for a weekend of sloping.
    
    Terry

    We had 10 kids round our house on Saturday for a birthday party, & my
    wife suggested I go flying. Seemed like a good idea to me. The hill
    used was Beacon Hill, the site of another of the local iron age
    fortresses.
    	I'd been flying on and off for about an hour with my
    aileron/elevator controlled Mustang P51C when Disaster - no response.
    The plane was flying straight and level, and I could see that no
    surfaces were moving. Suddenly response came back, it rolled inverted
    and in it went. Damage was fortunately limited, and it's nearly fixed
    already.
    	The place the problem occurred has a bad reputation. At this spot
    on a fenced off part of the hill is the burial sarcophagus of Lord
    Caernarvon, the guy who opened up Tutankhamun's tomb, and was reputedly
    cursed as a result. This curse sems at times to radiate from the spot,
    as a number of aircraft have trouble here. About 10 minutes earlier a
    MIddle Phase piled in at the same place.
    	Alternatively it may have been battery trouble?
    
    Malcolm

	I hadn't done any slope soaring in a while, so I took a run down
	to Bose hill this weekend. Even though the weather forecast was
	for southwest wind (a treacherous direction), I decided to chance
	it. Heck, they could be wrong.
	
	They weren't wrong. It was mostly from the southwest, with some
	tremendous gusts shifting to the south. I decided to try the
	south slope for the first time. The south slope is far less
	desireable than the west for several reasons. There are more
	buildings immediately in front of you that churn up the air.
	There's mostly parking lot behind you to smash the plane on in
	landings. And if you are lucky enough to hit the tall grass area,
	you are likely to have to walk through water to get the plane.
	
	I decided to give it a go anyway. Well, while I'm setting up, a
	lovely couple who arrived before me seemed to have solved the
	mysteries of the modern kite and finally got it airborne. But
	they were far enough back I figured there would be no conflict.
	Ha. So I throw the Predator off the south face and immediately
	have a tiger by the tail. It's REAL windy. And, as predicted, the
	air here is extremely turbulent. But in the interest of honing my
	reflexes, I stick with it. 
	
	Then, I hear talking behind me. A quick glance back reveals that
	the female half of the lovely couple has backed up so that she's
	only about 10 feet behind me. That wouldn't be too bad, except my
	car is back there, and her kite lines appear close to snagging my
	antenna. Luckily, she isn't disturbed by that fact. She shouted
	over her shoulder "Nice day for things that fly!". Right, I
	think, but what about things that roll... are you about to turn
	my car into a ball of twine? But she was nice and all I said was
	"Yep."
	
	A few minutes later, the female was replaced by the male, who was
	having less luck getting the kite up. (This puzzles me; in such
	strong wind I would think it hard to get it DOWN.) He keeps
	backing up, pulling on the kite lines to get it aloft. 
	
	Now, here's the interesting part. You see, there's a guardrail
	just at the edge of the slope, probably put there to prevent Bose
	employees from screaming out of the parking lot, over the
	precipice, and down to certain death. It's at knee height. And
	this gentlemen is just inches from it. As I hovered the Predator
	over the slope, I watched this guy do what slapstick comedians
	have done for years: he took one more step back and flipped right
	over the guardrail, landing flat on his back, the kite lines
	still gripped tightly in his hands! My, God, I think, what a
	Rube! I hope all kite flyers aren't like this.
	
	After that, I decided anything else would be anticlimatic, so I
	packed up and went home.
	
	That was Saturday. Sunday afternoon, a line of thundershowers
	marched through, leaving lower temps and a more manageable 10 MPH
	wind from the west. Or so the Weather Channel said. So, I went
	back down to Bose. They were wrong. It was STILL from the
	southwest. But the air was much smoother and worth another bid. 
	
	So, when I show up, there's a white Toyota parked by the south
	slope. It's empty. Where are the people? I get out and look out
	over the slope... there are the people. Three oriental women are
	picking through the trees halfway down the slope. I could swear
	they are foraging. Thinking there must be a more plausible
	solution, I conclude one of them must have accidently dropped her
	baby over the slope and they're looking for it. 
	
	Whatever, I can't fly with them on the slope, so I go to the
	corner where the south face meets the west face. Bad move. Two
	throws, two hard landings into the vegetation. Jim Reith once
	told me it's impossible to fly that corner. I certainly didn't
	disprove his theory.
	
	Back to the south slope. A second car has shown up, a friendly
	oriental family. I ask them what the first group is doing, they
	reply that they are eating the crabapples on the slope. They
	appear to be relishing them. Funny, back when I was a kid and
	throwing crabapples at cars, it didn't even occur to me to eat
	them. The nice family carefully descended the slope and began
	foraging. 
	
	I packed off once again and got some real food: MacDonalds.
	
	
	Dave

    We often get 'lovely couples' and generally nice people getting in our
    way when we fly. They're really interested in the gliders and want to
    get a nice close look. This usually means standing in the landing area.
    They often have nice dogs as well. These also seem to be fascinated by
    the gliders, and want a close look - and taste. I guess they see them
    as manoeuverable sticks they can chase.
    
    Question - does anyone else indulge in the silly game of 'coke
    canning'? First drink your coke, then stand the can on the edge of the
    hill. Then try and hit it with the glider. The plane has to keep flying
    afterwards to count. If you're not feeling too brave, you can put a
    small stick in the ground and put the can on top to give a bit more
    room.
    
    This game is normally played by everyone at the same time, which can
    get quite exciting.
    
    Malcolm

    Admit it Dave, you pushed him! Bose seems to attract kite fliers to the
    edge of the ridge. I've flown there a couple of times and ended up back
    to back with what appear to be kite novices. The good kite fliers
    appear to be rooted in place and simply, fly the kite(s). Nothing quite
    as disturbing as flying for 15-20 minutes only to find that your
    landing area is now occupied (while you're heading downwind for it).
    
    Malcolm, I haven't personally, but it sounds like fun. Bose has a lot
    of tall grass and bushes at the top of the ridge so you'd have to use a
    stick. Some of us just chase geese and hawks but he already admitted to
    that earlier 8^)

    I've put this here as I'm a slope flier, but it applies equally to 399.
    
    It seems to me that lately at least there is a definite bias of new
    notes & replies in favour of gliding in its various forms. Does this
    mean that:
    
    	1. There are more glider pilots?
    
    	2. There are less glider pilots but they do more?
    
    	3. Glider pilots just talk more?
    
    	4. None of the above.
    
    	5. Anyone else's opinion.
    
    
    Malcolm

    Obviously, # 3 explains it all.:-)
    
    It seems to me that:
    
    With the departure of Al Casey a notes void was left in several
    categories, scale, trivia, ramblin' , etc.
    
    Many very active power fliers note in DECRCM, rather than R/C notes.
    These are the (apparently) 3 hour lunch guys. ;^).
    
    The remainder of us (1/2 hour lunch guys) that note frequently,
    are solely, primarily, or occasionally glider fliers. Add it all
    up and you come up with what looks like a lot of glider notes
    but is more like just filling a void.
    
    Yup, definitely # 3.
    
    Terry

    John Chadd, the engine wizard, is also gone. I think people are being
    more selective with their noting also in order to keep a lower profile.
    
    Having put my emphasis on gliders this season, I don't mind 8^)
    
    Questions drive the topics and we either don't have many novices and/or
    they're shy.
    
    The file has been a LOT more active this week than in the past and I'm
    glad to see some activity in the electric and trivia topics recently.
    Being in the northeast, I tend to split myself between the two files
    and have tended to put my power notes into DECRCM since most of it is
    lunchtime/evening comraderie. I'm not doing any big power projects at
    the moment so things are quiet. 90% of my building time this year has
    been gliders.

    Hi Mike,
    
    Welcome to the world of RC. I notice by your cluster that you're in the
    LJO area. There's a group of us that go down to a soccer field in Acton
    to fly gliders at lunch. If you'd like, we can add you to our email
    distribution list.
    
    To be honest, sloping probably isn't a great beginners environment. You
    really have to be on your toes to deal with the turbulence of the slope
    and you don't generally have the altitude to make mistakes or pass the
    Tx back and forth. You might do better putting a tow hook into the
    plane and getting familiar with it on flat land. The other choice would
    be to get a "disposable" glider to learn on and save the expensive one
    for when you have more experience.
    
    Re: Bose
    
    This sight is tough because you want the wind directly from the west to
    northwest. As Dave Walter confirmed, southwest is very limited. I've
    been there alone on PERFECT evenings. It really depends on what
    people's schedules are. I haven't been there in over a month myself.
    
    Re Full-scale experience...
    
    Well it might help some but then again not. You'll know what to do to
    make things happen but without looking out the front of the plane,
    you'll still get disoriented as you turn in different directions (left
    is right and right is left coming towards yourself) You'll also lack
    the "seat of the pants" gut feel for what's happening around the plane
    (lift).
    
    There are several glider pilots in the Littleton/Boxboro/Acton area
    that fly together at lunchtime

What do you guys say to taking a day off and hitting some of the slope
sights down on the Cape(just like the NSP guys!) Looking at the article in 
Model Builder(May 91), there are 4 prime sights on the ocean side and 2
sites on the bay side.  The wind direction range from east to northeast on
the ocean side and west to southwest on the bay side. What do you guys
think? Are you up for it????

-Lamar

    Bose is building on the mountain. Over the summer, more and more
    surveyers stakes have shown up and I've heard a rumor that kite flyers
    have been chased off of the hill. I don't know about slope soarers, but
    don't be surprised if you are asked to leave, it is private property
    and there is a sign which says, "No Trespassing".
    
    	Marty

    
    
       Sorry, I forgot, there wouldn't be any propellers to cut the
    streamers. Besides, they would probably add too much drag. The
    alternative is much simpler. We could just go for each others planes!
    
                  Dan, who has lots of recent experience with mid-airs!

    Well, the kite club had it's monthly fly at Bose this Saturday. A chat
    with the guard on duty seems to indicate that things are still friendly
    at Bose. Ground hasn't been broken and there aren't any new surveyors
    stakes.
    
    It won't last forever, but for now, it looks like Bose is still a place
    for flying...
    
    	Marty

    Hi All,
    	
    	I've noticed a lack of references to what are known here in the UK
    as P.S.S. (Power Scale Soarer) models - i.e. a glider model of a
    powered aircraft. I fly a P51C Mustang, had a failed (so far) attempt
    at a Dassault Mirage 2000, and now plan to try an Armstrong Whitworth
    Seahawk. Other local planes include an ME110, A10 Thunderbolt, Stuka,
    BF109(2), Vulcan and, until recently, a Spitfire.
    	Does anyone else fly such things?
    
    Malcolm

    The biggest problem in the New England area is that we lack sites with
    sufficient lift to handle these bigger, less efficient ships. Hard to
    justify the effort for something that the conditions might be right
    only once a year. Most of the ships flown double as hi-start/up-start
    ships.
    
    I'd be interested in hearing more about it though. My only source of
    info is the NorthEast Sailplanes catalog.

    Hi Jim,
    	The majority of these types of plane are not that big. My Mustang,
    and the majority of similar type designs are mainly around the 50 - 60
    inch span mark. The Mustang uses a Selig S3021 thermal section with
    good penetrating ability, to help keep it in the air. It flies in
    surprisingly light lift, although obviously not to the same extent as a
    purpose designed ship. It's of conventional balsa/ply construction,
    with an obechi veneered 1 piece bolt-on wing, using servos on
    aileron/elevator only.
    	The above is the way most of them are built. We're just getting
    into blue foam fuselages as well though - one guy's trying it on his
    new BF109, and I want to try on my Seahawk.
    	The sights we use locally are not very big, only around 400ft high
    or so, and they cope quite well. Things like B52 bombers are quite
    popular over here. With a suitable airfoil and the nice high aspect
    ratio wings they're surprisingly efficient.
    	I don't think thermal turns are a recognised B52 scale manoeuver
    though.
    	Any slope that allows a 'Ninja' type plane to fly should be OK I
    would think - certainly for my Mustang style of plane. The Mirage 2000
    however is (was?) another story.
    
    Malcolm

    The majority of the available sites are 40' high and we're lucky to
    find a few 150' high sites. My Ninja is a 4 days per year plane so I
    stand corrected 8^). We've had articles in the states about the B-52
    slopers and most of them are out on the west coast (generally
    Washington state). We'd have a lot more slopers if we had 400' high
    sites in drivable distances (I drive 2.5 hours each way to the
    Biddeford contests so drivable is relative 8^)

    As Jim says, the majority of sloping activity is on the west coast,
    Calif. has a fair amount of PPS activity.
    
    Here in N.M. we have one really good site 15 miles from town, but
    being on Indian Pueblo land, its useability depends on who is on
    guard duty at the time. Some guards will let you use it, some won't.
    Also the winds are suitable mainly Mar.-May.
    
    In northern N.M. , between Tierra Amarilla and Tres Piedras there
    is a ~2000 ft. high west facing mesa (all potential slope sites must
    be west facing) which is excellent in the summer, but is 180 miles
    away.
    
    On the immediate south side of Albuquerque there are several ~150 ft.
    sand hills that are flyable in the spring, but are suitable
    mainly for expendable type slopers.
    
    A 200 mile drive to Springerville, Az. will bring you to Greens Peak,
    a 2000 ft. conical hill which with S-SW winds is quite excellent with
    a grassy landing area and usually enough wind velocity to keep up
    most slope types.
    
    Without coastal winds to rely on, most areas of the U.S. where R/C
    soaring is popular simply don't have winds strong enough or consistent
    enough to make slope soaring practical enough to attract many devotees.
    
    Terry

    My father called last night and mentioned his NSP Swallow kit had
    arrived.  The Swallow is NSP's slope ship that looks a lot like a
    Swift 400.  His initial impression was favorable.  The ship uses
    V-tail elevator only with ailerons controlled by a single servo
    embedded in the wing.  The cross section of the fuselage is minimal
    and the SD7080 appears to be a semi-symmetrical wing.  The nice thing
    about this ship is it's light weight(advertised weight 23 oz.) and
    foam and glass construction(less broken fuselages and ripped monokote).
    Our slopes in Upstate NY are not real steep, so I believe a light, 
    maneuverable, ship is necessary.  I was never able to fly my Pierce-
    Aero Ridge Rat on the local slopes.  I think it was just too heavy.
    My slope ships for the coming year will be my electric powered Robbe
    Arcus and a 3-meter Multiplex Fiesta which will be popped up with a
    short "slope" highstart  to give me a chance to turn back if the
    slope is not "working".  I am debating about going to Richland,
    Washington this may to watch the mid-Columbia slope fun fly.  I really
    envy those West Coast slopes.  We Easterners really have to look
    hard to find even a marginal hill.  Also I like sloping in the winter
    because you don't have to lay out a high start or rely on thermals.
    
    
                                                    Regards,
    
                                                    Jim
    

    I saw the Swallow kit at my father's house yesterday, and it is a
    nice kit produced by Culpepper models.  The pink foam wings are sheeted
     with balsa by the builder, then balsa leading and trailing edges are
    glued on.  The ailerons are just trailing edge stock cut away to the
    proper length(not full span), they are activated by torque rods, driven
    by a single wing mounted servo which protrudes into the fuselage.  The
    V-tail is solid balsa sheeting which is connected to a single servo
    in the forward fuselage, providing elevator only control.  The wing
    has no spar and is attached by two nylon bolts.  This should be a super
    low drag ship, the glass fuselage is the narrowest I have seen, and the
    SD7080 wings are very slim.  With an advertised all up weight of 23 oz.
    (approx 9 oz wing loading) this should be a good eastern slope soarer.
    It should be very hard to damage because it is so light, yet should 
    penetrate due to the tiny cross section. I think any dissatisfied Ninja
    owners should take a look at this ship, I think the Swallow will fly
    much better on our "modest" slopes.  I will report how it flys when it
    is done.  BTW the kit is $99 from NSP.  Also for my birthday yesterday,
    I received a JR 3141 micro servo - Expensive but very nice(light, with
    strong gears and ball bearings), it is about $45 from Weston
    Aerodesign.  I will buy another and will use them in the wings of my
    Multiplex Fiesta.
    
                                                   Regards,
    
                                                   Jim
    

    
    
    Well,    I'm writing as a pure novice to slope soaring...   It looks
    like my club will have access to a land fill that is ( at this moment)
    being capped off.  The location is on the south east side of Westover
    AFB ( not on the base).  Elevation is app. 100ft verticle and about 
    four football fields in area on top.   Three slopes will be available.
    West,East and South.  There are houses to the east and west app. 1/4
    mile away.  Does this sound like a site that will efficiently produce
    lift for slope sailplanes?  Also what's a good first slope ship?
    
    
    Tom
    
    P.S. I was looking at a Ninja.

    Sounds like a nice area. It might be worth me giving it a look and
    possibly heading out there for a slope fix now and again.
    
    The Ninja is a nice plane but I'm not convinced it's the best beginner
    plane for learning sloping. I've walked up and down the hill several
    times with mine and still haven't gotten an "outstanding" flight out of
    it. A HLG size poly ship with an enlarged rudder would be a good
    initial ship. I've flown my Gnome and Predator with good success. I've
    also flown my modified Gentle Lady and seen others fly. You want
    something that you can turn quickly and can penetrate the winds that
    you'll be flying in. A cheap HLG or 2 meter ship would be where I'd
    start. I'm not convinced we get enough "Ninja" days out here. The Chup
    is another possibility. Kay's had some luck with his.

    A Ninja is a good first slope ship for someone who already has 
    a fair amount of R/C experience. A typical 2 meter floater type
    glider is good on slopes in light winds.
    
    Sounds like your site is pretty good.
    
    Terry

    I am new to this conference but ive had a scan through this topic(very
    quiet lately) I do thermal flying regularly but have not yet been
    sloping as we have no good slopes locally nearest 75 miles away. but I
    have built a flair hawker hunter and hope to slope off this friday with
    som pal's from our local club.
    
    I live in essex uk. are there any other uk. slopers out there?
    
    Richard

    Hi Richard,
    
    		I'm a UK sloper, living in Basingstoke and working in
    Newbury. The hills we use are about 1/2 way between the two, around the
    Kingsclere area. There's at least one other Digital sloper in the same
    area (where are you Brian?).
    	
    		Have fun this Friday. If you (or anyone) ever want to fly 
    in this area mail me on MAJORS::WINSLADE & I'll give you directions.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Malcolm

    Welcome Richard,
    
    ( here I am Malcolm! ).
    
    I live in Newbury and usually fly at Combe Gibbett a few miles to the
    west. We have a small club ( Inkpen Model Soaring Association - 30 members
     ) and pay to use our site which has a beautiful east-west slope - great 
    north face ( long and gentle at the top ) - the south side is not so great
    - it will only play SOUTH not much either way and gets a bit bumpy!
    
    There ia also a great hill at Devizes ( Roundway ) which flies every
    direction from SSE thru' W to N.
    
    I fly a Great Planes Spirit ( super!! 2 metre trainer ) - I also have a
    Chris Foss Middle Phase ( ailerons, rudder and elev ) flying and am
    building a 1/8th scale ASW 19, an Algebra 2.5M and have several other
    kits in various states!
    
    I work in DECpark, Reading ( DTN 830-2372 ) and can be contacted on
    CHEFS::WARWICKB if you would like to get together sometime.
    
    Good luck
    
    Brian
    

    
    Great to hear from you malcolm & brian,
    
    I'm coming down to highfield soon for three days perhaps we can get
    together one evening?
    
    Richard

    It's me again,
    
    Do either/both of you (Malcolm &Brian that is) have all-in-one
    addresses I'm "YOUNG@wlo" I don't think I can mail a vms account? maybe
    somebody can enlighten me.
    
    Richard
    

From within notes you can do a send/author while reading one of their notes.

    As Jim says, you can get me via notes. I can also be contacted on
    MALCOLM WINSLADE @NEW.
    
    Highfield's not far up the road - I'm sure we can arrange something.
    
    Cheers
    
    Malcolm

    Let us know when you're coming down - let's meet.
    
    Brian
    

    
    
    	Hiya guys,
    
    	This is another Brian here,  I work in the CSC in Basingstoke.
    	I've never seen or done any PSS'ing !! but I'd sure like to
    	come and watch.  (or even try!) 
    	I fly power sports aerobatic type models with the Fleet club.  
    
    	I live about 15 mins drive from Highfield,  if you do meet
    	there I'd like to join in and  say hello.
    
    	Brian    KERNEL::ANTHONY    or  BRIAN ANTHONY @UVO

    
    
    Hi Bri,
    
     watch this space we'll keep you posted, we've been in touch "off air"
    and it looks like it mightjust be!
    
    Richard
    
    P.s. I didn't get to the slope today cos' it P***'d down.

    
    	Thanks, hope to meet up at Highfield,
    
    	Brian

While most RC types were at the NATS in western Massachusetts, I was already 
committed to a family get together in eastern Mass, Cape Code to be specific.
I lugged down two gliders hoping to test out the slope sites that have been
popularized by the Northeast Sailplane Products guys, Stan and Sal. 

Of the four days I visited the Cape, one day was terribly windy and I spent
the time playing golf, and the other 3 days there was virtually no wind at all! 
Bummer. But I did travel up the arm of the Cape and at least look at several of
the sites. A few hints on flying there in the summer season: Get to the area
early; the parking lots fill up fast. And bring money; it's typically $10 per
car, and there's nowhere else to park but where they can charge you for it.

Here's are the hills I checked out:

White Crest Beach
	This is on the ocean side with an east-facing slope. And what a slope
it is... it extends for miles, with the vertical drop anywhere from 50 to 
150 feet (my estimate). For those of you who have visited Bose, it's up to
3 times Bose high, and about as steep a slope. Public parking, $10. You can
also park a mile down at Cahoon Hollow, same price.

Fisher Beach	This is on the bay side, west-facing. Minimal parking, and it's
only for those with parking permits. (Parking tickets are $20. Several cars
there had already started sprouting tickets on their windshields...) The slope
is really just a couple of small hills facing the water. I'm sure you can slope
soar off it, but it's not as impressive as the other sites.

Long Nook Beach
	This is very similar to White Crest Beach, probably an extension of the
same ridge. Also facing east. Public parking, $10. I tried flying my Predator
off this slope with a very gentle breeze quartering the hill. I gave up after a
couple flights due to lack of lift. It has a reasonable landing area (where I
climbed up, anyway) but you don't want to land on the slope... you might be
able to go down it without tumbling, but I seriously doubt you could climb back
up it. I learned something else about flying at the Cape: make sure there are
no, and I mean NO, holes in your covering! A couple of landings on Cape Cod
dune sand and your plane starts to sound like a baby rattle. I had just a few
tiny holes in my monokote, and I'm still trying to shake the sand out.


Dave

    

    From my experience the other place the sand gets in is the transmitter.
    
    Have a look in yours - I can't remember why I took the back off mine,
    but I was shocked at all the sand in there.
    
    						Malcolm

    
    
    Well, my HAWKER HUNTER has now been off the slope but there wasn't
    enough lift. Try again huh!
    
    But my balsa cabin fantasia flew a treat!
    
    Richard
    

    Hi Richard,
    
    Wait for the next gale & try again. BTW, I've flown by 2ft(!) wingspan
    Folland Gnat at last. Very -er- exciting. Certainly needs good lift,
    but it's pretty quick, and the roll rate...
    
    See you for another beer soon,
    
    Malcolm

    This weekend (Oct. 24-25) is the annual occurance of the NSP Slope
    Soaring Debacle at Cape Code, Massachusetts. I intend to go down there
    for at least Saturday, and maybe Sunday too if I don't break every
    plane I bring. I think they meet at the Seascape (?) Motel in Truro, or
    was it Wellfleet? As you can see, I'm really prepared for this.
    
    Anyway, does anyone else plan to go? There might be a chance to car
    pool (although not in my sardine can!).
    
    Dave
    

RE: Note 1261.130 by QUIVER::WALTER

    It's the Eastgate Motel in North Tauro (508-487-1225) and I'll be
    there for the whole weekend!!!!  (the wife thinks this is an
    "Anniversery Get-Away Weekend".  Snicker, snicker :-)

    Directions: Rt.6 to Tauro.  After entering North Tauro, 5-10 mins.
    later you will see a sign "Shore Road, Rt.6A".  Bear left on 6A.
    Look for Easgate Motel sign on right side of road, turn left into
    driveway.

    Now, all I've gotta' do is get some gliders ready...  I can't wait!!!

                                - Dan

Well, I finally went slope soaring at the Cape this Saturday. Hoooooo-weee! 
What a ball!

The NSP guys had already checked into the Seascape Motel the day before, and by
the time we got there they already had two planes in the air, and more lined up
and ready to fly. Boy, do they come prepared.

Here's a capsule review:

THE LOCATION:

The Seascape is located in North Truro, on the west side of the Cape facing 
the bay. Immediately behind the motel (and I mean RIGHT behind it!) the land
drops off for 60 or 70 feet to the beach below. It's about a 45 degree slope
facing the southwest. To the right, the slope tails off pretty quickly, so
that's no-man's land. To the left, it continues for maybe 200 feet, eventually
dropping off as well. For any of you who have been to Bose "mountain" in
Framingham, it's dimensions are nearly the same as Bose, maybe even a little
smaller. At first you would think "So, what's the big deal". But then you have
to take into account...

THE WEATHER:

Wind. We're talking stiff breeze here folks. Like the American flag out front
was trying to rip itself to shreds. Like when you stand on the lip of the 
hill (assuming for now that hills HAVE lips) you have to lean forward slightly
to avoid being blown off balance. Not the strongest wind I've ever flown in,
but by far the most consistent. It kept up for the entire day without a moment
of letup, and most of the time it was no more than 10 degrees off the
perpendicular. Matter of fact, it was so steady that Lincoln Ross was able
to satisfy his LSF Level IV slope flight of 4 hours duration! (Boy, was he
bored.)

THE ATTENDEES:

    I rode down with Meg Pash. Between the two of us, we stuffed 7
    light-wing- loaded fun-but-slow gliders into my car. We managed to fly
    just one of them (see "The Weather" above, subheading "wind"). More on
    that later. Lincoln Ross also showed up, anxious to rid himself of the
    4 hour flight. Dan Miner showed around lunchtime with his wife in tow .
    And of  course, there were the die-hards of NSP, Sal and Stan (and some
    family members). Three other pilots showed up from Connecticut and
    Vermont, and there were a few watchers with video cams.

THE PLANES:

	Predator: The only plane in my car I felt comfortable flying in 
	these conditions was the Predator. We jammed in what balast we 
	could and hoped for the best. I'm happy to say it flew just fine 
	(with about 14 clicks of "down" dialed in!) But of course, it 
	couldn't compare with the thoroughbreds, like the...

	QuickSilver: I think I want one of these. It's kitted by Douglas
	Aircraft and flew beautifully. One guy was doing surgical 8 point
	rolls with one. It's not too big, flies great.

	Cheetah: This is a swept wing glider with one of those unbreakable
	fuses, and cardboard sheeted wings. Also flew nice, although not
	as crisp as the QuickSilver. Very rugged. Dan Miner suffered a 
	mid-air with a Cheetah that karate-chopped his Ninja into the sand;
	the Cheetah kept flying (I think its wing spar got broken tho').
	Dan can fill in more detail.

	Ninja: Dan's plane. Doing just fine until Ninja met Cheetah.

	Talon: This old Bob Martin design can stay right with the best of
	them. It too is very crisp and quick, doing some beautiful 4 point
	rolls. Probably the best bargain on the slope.

	Sparrow: NSP's own design (sort of), it's a V tail with fiber fuse.
	A good flyer, but it didn't distinguish itself from the other planes.
	Looked nice in the air.

	F14 PSS: This beauty had the top honor for fastest and most axial
	rolls. I was amazed at how smoothly this scale entry flew. The 
	pilot loved to do high speed passes across the slope about 3 feet
	in front of our noses. I tried the same with my Predator. He was
	not impressed.

	Contender: Unfortunately, this ship had a mid-air soon after we got
	there, but it appeared to be the star of the show. Looked to be a
	2 meter or Standard size, used wingerons, and retained tremendous
	speed in the turns. This baby was fast! But it was downed before I
	could get a close look at it. I don't believe it has appeared in 
	NSP's catalog yet.

	(Combat model): Don't know the name of this little beastie, but it's
	strictly a combat plane, designed using the same philosophy as the 
	Gremlin: Make it cheap, durable, and as ugly as sin! These things
	were a gas!

THE FLYING

So THIS is real slope soaring! I think I had the most fun zooming  along
parallel to the slope, making tight, fast turns at the ends. You didn't dare
get behind the lip of the hill because the lift ended abruptly and you had to
fight a 25 knot wind to get back in the lift zone. Many a plane ended up on the
roof of the motel. I tried a loop once too close to the slope, and nearly ended
in disaster. My plane just isn't fast (read: heavy) enough. But I did enjoy
swooping down from 100 feet and pulling back up to a stationary hover.

Landings were VERY interesting. There is essentially nowhere to land behind the
slope; the motel is back there. The best best was to come up the slope at a 45
degree angle, hugging the surface, make a quick turn when you reach the lip
and JAM that elevator down. The plane zips into the high grass on the top
of the slope, hopefully with no damage. It was a maneuver that took some
practice (and guts) to execute correctly.

Or, you could land on the beach, an unconvenient 70 feet below. One time I did
just that. Regretably, I didn't actually see the Predator land on the beach
because in the chaos of slope flying I had somehow shifted my gaze to the wrong
plane! By the time I woke up, the Predator was down on the beach with its
tailfeathers raised skyward, the nose buried in the sand up to the wing. The 
fuse was OK, but the wing dowel broke. So I just put wing #2 on and continued.

The most enjoyment of the day was watching the combat activity. If you have
seen the famous tape of the first flights of the Gremlin, imagine that kind of
utter chaos going on for 10 minutes at a time. These little slope planes are 
ABOMINABLE gliders, about as stable as a BB on a pin. They are all foam and
roughly as stiff as undercooked spagetti. But given enough wind, ANYTHING will
fly, and fly they did! Combat consisted of 5 planes trying to take each other
out of the sky. After contact, you do a roll to show you still have control.
1 point for contact, 2 points if you put a guy into the ground, -2 points if
you go down yourself. Keeping track of scoring was nearly impossible.
Spectators and pilots alike were in abject danger of being assaulted by an
out-of-control hunk of styrofoam. Throw a pizza box into the wind and you will
see the same level of flight worthiness. I was gratified to watch Sal, flying
all alone, pancake one of these beasts right into his chest, nearly knocking
him over (an amazing thing to see, considering Sal's low center of gravity).

CONCLUSION

I gotta get a REAL slope ship. That's all there is to it. Even if it sits
without a flight pack for 363 days out of the year, it'll be worth it for
the 1 or 2 days it does fly. Boy, do I wish we had a slope like this a little
closer to home.

Dave

    
                                           

WOW!

You know I'll be saving brownie points for next year!

It still seems to be blowing. Want to try Bose tomorrow?

RE: Note 1261.132 by QUIVER::WALTER

    First, my apologies to those who took my directions seriously.  I
    had the hotel and town name wrong - but hey, the phone number and
    "directions" were correct.  :-)

    Dave already did a good job of describing the location and most of
    the events, so I won't repeat those here.  I will say that the
    location IS worth the 2.5-3 hour drive.  (In my opinion.)

    I brought the Ninja (built by Steve Smith) and a 2 meter Spirit
    (built by George Mills) and a Skeeter handlaunch (built be ME! :-).
    The Skeeter had never flown (and still hasn't).  Only the Ninja flew.

    I had tried to fly the Ninja at Bose hill before, but there was not
    nearly enough wind so I broke it a few times.  The fuselage would
    break cleanly just in front of the wing.  So, before going to the
    Cape, I used 8 oz. fiberglass cloth to re-inforce the fuse from the
    nose to roughly the CG.  (and removed some lead.)

    It was incredible to see 5-10 like design gliders buzzing around
    like a flock of mosquitoes!!!  Kinda' like a Gremlin all-up
    formation fly!  :-)  It made me wish that I had one of those.  One
    time, while they were flying combat, I repeatedly flew through the
    group.  Once, the larger and heaveier Ninja took out one of the
    lightweight combatants and didn't even wiggle.  It went down to the
    ground but was quickly back in the air without damage.  These things
    are so light weight that saftey is there by default.  You can be hit
    in the head with one and not even realize it.  Well, almost...  :-)

    Anyway, my first flight lasted 35 minutes!!!  I was psyched!  I
    consider this my first "real" slope flight since my Bose attempts
    were probably only 2 minutes or less in duration.  It was fun but
    after watching real slope ships in action, my respect for the Ninja
    soon dwindled.  

    Thus, for my second flight, I challenged Stan to a "real" combat
    session.  Ninja vs. Cheetah.  Little did I realize that the
    Cheetah's fuselage would survive being run over by a tractor
    trailer!  :-)  After about 5-10 minutes of near misses and taking
    some breaks to free fly, SMACK!  One plane falls straight down and
    the other flies away.  I couldn't tell which went down, so I assumed
    the one flying was mine.  However, it didn't respond to my radio. 
    The Ninja was down.  Stan landed shortly after and discovered that
    his Cheetah was flying on borrowed time.  The Ninja had fractured
    the wing spar.  I considered it a double kill.  :-)

    We must have hit in the famous "X-on" formation.  The Ninja's
    fuselage broke just behind the wing.  The wing had a cosmetic 1/8"
    ding in the leading edge.  Stan's Cheetah was the opposite:  not a
    scratch on the fuse, but the wing had a 1" or 2" gash and a broken
    spar.  The ideal combo would be a Cheetah fuselage with a vacuum
    bagged wing.  I have also concluded that the Ninja's "light-ply"
    fuselage is _VERY_ fragile.

    I came away most impressed with the Bob Martin Talon.  Only $25. (I
    was told) and it few as good as any of the others.  I have to build
    a couple of these.

    Oh, yeah - Since this was a "Anniversery get-away weekend", my wife
    and I stayed there at the hotel.  The weather co-operated and it
    rained all day Sunday.  I say "co-operated" because if it wasn't
    raining, I would have been slope flying then too and would have been
    divorced by Monday morning.  :-)

                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |            Happy Landings!
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|              - Dan Miner
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |     " The Earth needs more OZONE,
                      |      /                       not Castor Oil!! "    
                      |_____/

                Fritz Bien is organizing a CRRC slope soaring trip to the
        Cape on Saturday the 7'th.  Fritz lives in Concord if you want to
        give him a call.
        
        Anker

I've been talking to Dave Walter about tagging along. I've gotten permission 
from my wife and I'm hoping to caravan down with Dave/somebody since I 
typically avoid the cape and don't know where you'll be heading.

    Wow! This is the most exciting glider note I have read in a long
    time!  Thanks Dave Walter for a great report of the equipment
    and how it flew.
    
    BTW- The Contender is a California slope design using the S2016
    airfoil.  It is advertised frequently in RCSD.  I think it is
    $99.
    
    If you want to see some awesome and I mean "AWESOME" high wind
    slope ships, send for VS Sailplanes catalog(advertised in RCSD).
    VS is owned by Ken Stuhr who is an Aerosoace engineer at BOEING.
    I saw some of his ships at the Mid-Columbia funfly I went to
    this spring in Washington.  Ken works for Boeing in Seattle.
    His fuselages use Kevlar and are the toughest I have ever seen.
    Many of the designs(most) use wingeron control and have  incredible
    speed and energy retention.  He advertisews a roll rate of 3 rolls
    per second for his rotor design.  It sounds like the wind at the Cape
    could support these ships.  As one flyer at Columbia described the
    VS XICA- "It's like having a tiger by the tail"  These babies move!
    
    To reflect- the two sites in Washington(Eagle Butte, Kiona Butte)
    are 600 ft and 1000 ft respectively above the valley, 60 degree
    slope, no trees, probably a mile of ridge and strong wind.  SLOPE
    HEAVEN!!!!!!!  Anything will fly here in a 30 mph wind.
    
    I would like to come to the CAPE for a slope fly in.  I can't come the
    7th because I just took a week's vacation.  But I would like to come up
    sometime.  Keep us posted on any events you want to organize.  The NSP
    event is a must next year. I'm psyched!
    
                                                Regards,
    
                                                Jim

        Re:                      <<< Note 1261.137 by UNYEM::BLUMJ >>>

                We will  meet and depart for the Cape in the Hudson plant
        parking lot at 7:40AM on Saturday the 7'th.
        
                The meeting place on  the Cape is at Helmut Lelke's house
        at 10AM.  I have  directions  at  home  and  will  post them here
        tonight.
        
                Helmut will let us stay overnight  at his place so we can
        make it a two day event.   If  you decide to stay overnight bring
        your sleeping bag.  I'm going to call  Halmut  tonight to ask how
        many he can acommodate. I plan to stay over.
        
        Anker

    I plan to go down Saturday and just stay for the day. For any of you
    planning to join us, bring LOTS of warm clothes. They're talking 40
    degrees this weekend. Couple that with a stiff 25 mph breeze and you
    need all the insulation you can get. A thermos full of hot coffee
    probably would help too.
    
    After drooling over those slope designs two weeks ago, I felt compelled
    to build a real sloper for this weekend. I skinned some old Ninja wing
    cores that Jim Reith donated to me a year or so ago, and built a very 
    simple box fuse. It's a low wing design, and it attaches with two
    dowels in front and two nylon bolts in the rear. The wing has about
    0.002 degrees of dihedral (stability? Who needs stability?). I'll throw
    on some 1/8" slab stock for stab and fin (no rudder), and this baby
    can't help but fly! If it lasts for one day I'll be happy.
    
    Dave
    

                For those  of  you who may miss the convoy, or can't keep
        up with the  leader,  here  are  the directions to Helmut Lelke's
        place in Brewster:
        
        Ont the Cape take  route  6  to exit 12.  Take a left at the exit
        and go west on 6A for about a mile.  Go down Holley Avenue (there
        is a red sign with Robinwood).    Follow  Holley Avenue for about
        1/2 mile and go right at fork  on  Cedar  Lane.  Helmut's is #10.
        We meet there at 10AM. Helmut's number there is (508) 240 1760.
        
        See ya!
        
        Anker

Dave,

You sheeted the wings? You BUILT? Gawd you put in a lot of effort. I'll bet 
you even monocoated in more than one color! 8^)

I have a 3" square foam log with embedded radio gear and a corrogated 
cardboard tail with a raw blue foam wing with cardboard ailerons tape 
hinged. Now you know where I get the name Ugly As Sin 8^) 3 hours to 
build two! If I had a driver for the trip down, I could build two more! 8^)

I'm bringing a Ninja, Predator, and Gnome also with several wings each.

I'm hoping to get my 2 hour LSF level III flight while there. I hope frequencies 
work out.

    Boy, I really would like to come this weekend!  I have never had the
    opportunity to fly with more than 1 other person(my father) who
    wanted to fly gliders.  It sounds like it's going to be a lot
    of fun.
    
                                                       Regards,
    
                                                       Jim

    
    What an absolute Blast!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    I met Jim Reith and Anker at HLO Saturday morning and rode with Jim as
    we headed down to the cape. We arrived at Helmuts place in Brewster
    around 10, and after most of the rest of the gang arrived headed of to
    the beach. First stop was at the Head of the Meadows beach, but the
    wind was a cross wind. A note was left for Dave Walter, Meg, and Art
    Faria who were arriving later, and off we went to Race Point. 
    
    Upon arriving there, planes were quickly unloaded, including Jim's Ugly
    As Sin, and before you knew it there were gliders in the air! After
    seeing that Jim's ungainly creation really did fly, I was back in the
    parking lot installing a radio in the second UAS that Jim had brought
    with him. A few minutes later and I was radio to learn how to slope
    soar! A few tips from Jim and some of the other guys there and I was
    soon flying back and forth along the dunes! It was great!! :-)
    
    Even with a completly flat 3" square nose, all the radio gear hanging
    out in the breeze, and flexible wings flapping, I was able to get in a
    couple of 8-10 minute flights on the thing. Everyone there was amazed
    at the way they flew, and getting a charge out of listening to the tape
    hinges creaking and popping as the surfaces moved.
    
    After an hour or so of flying these, I pulled the crystal from my Rx
    and put it in the rx in Jim's Gnome so I could try that plane. That's
    when things started getting wild. With only light to moderate wind, and
    6-7 planes in the air at a time it got a little crowded at times. Jim
    and I tapped wing tips passing in opposite directions, with neither
    plane sustaining any damage. A few minutes later while flying slowly
    about 5 feet off the beach John Blazer and I swapped wingtips, with
    John slowly flat spinning his 6' something glider to the beach while
    the gnome continued merrily on its way! A quick check with John
    revealed no damage and he was quickly backin the air again!
    
    While flying at one point I was at the top of the dunes and Jim was
    flying from the base. I landed near him, about the same time he landed
    near me. We picked up each others planes, and I looked at Jim and
    called out "wanna try a simultaneous launch?" "Why not?" he replied.
    On the count of three we each threw a plane, and it was weird to
    concentrate on the other plane rather than the one we threw, but it
    worked without a hitch!! :-) Much better than another launch attempt
    Jim made later, but I'll let him tell that story! :-) :-)
    
    After about two hours of this the batteries were getting low. And yet I
    was having so much fun I really didn't noticed the cold! We took a
    lunch break and quick charged the batteries. I was reading 9.2 volts on
    the X-347 when we stopped, and the rxs were low as well. But about 30
    minutes later we were ready to go again.
    
    The wind had shifted a bit more to the northwest, so a small cliff a
    hundred yards west on the beach had become a better flying site. Jim
    and I moved down there and joined Anker who was flying his legend. We
    lanched, and began what ended up being a 31+ minute continious flight!
    During that flight Jim and I would end up mid-airing with gentle wing
    taps a good half dozen times!! In every case we'd lose a bit of
    altitude, recover, and continue to fly. Flying the same course up and
    down the ridge we would get next to each other as  we turned into the
    wind and hovered, tap wings, recover, and head down to the other end of
    the pattern. It was great! 
    
    The sun was setting as Jim and I finally landed, fingers and toes
    numb, legs tired from trudging thru the dunes, and deliriously happy
    from the most fun I've had flying in a long time!! A stop at Friendly's
    with the gang for dinner and a good deal of re-hashing the day's
    events, and we were headed home, very tired and very satisfied with the
    way the day had gone.
    
    I want to thank Jim Reith for letting me fly his planes, and for
    letting me ride down and back with him. And I want to thank the rest of
    the group for their helpfulness, for great companionship, and just a
    damn good time. It was really great to participate in an outing like that
    with 10 other pilots without anyone caring what you were flying, what
    the planes looked like, or how you flew, as long as you were having a
    good time!! I look forward to doing it again!!!! 

Saturday I woke up early and excited. I was afraid to go back to sleep for
fear of missing the meeting at HLO for the caravan to the cape. I had 
everything in the car by 6:15 so I had about 1/2 an hour to kill. I watched 
the weather channel and everything seemed fine. Met Dan Snow at about 7:20
and we waited. About 7:50 Anker pulled up behind us AND THEN DROVE AWAY! After
calling to him he stopped and we made our way to the highway for an uneventful 
trip to Helmut's. After accumulating about 10 flyers and almost no frequency 
conflicts we headed out the cape. We left a note for the others following 
behind. The primary beach proved to have a crosswind so we continued out to
Race Point Beach. If Cape Cod is the "arm" of Massachusetts, we were on the 
finger nails. I'd never been slope soaring out on the cape so I wasn't really
sure what to expect but I had Torrey Pines in mind 8^) I should have remembered
when one of my friend had referred to a 5 foot rise as a hill when giving me 
directions to his wedding. The "cliff" turned out to be a 15-20 foot dune. The
tide was out so we got another bubble off the high tide mark. This gave us 
about a 30 foot deep lift zone and the constant wind made it easy to work the 
slope even though we never got over about 30 feet high (other than a few brief 
moments where a thermal seemed to pass through and raise everyone). The initial
plane out of the car was my (built two in 3 hours) "Ugly As Sin". Everyone
had a comment about it when I brought it out but it was the first plane in 
the air and it proved itself. Soon several other planes joined and outclimbed 
it but I was flying. After seeing that this ungodly think actually flew, Dan 
headed out to put his gear in the second one. Art Faria found us shortly after 
this and since he only had one plane and it was on my UAS frequency, I changed 
over to my Predator. The HLGs seemed to do real well in the light lift. I 
never did take the Ninja out of the car. Art's Lumina and Anker's Legend really
tooled along the slope and seemed to outlast us when the wind eased up a bit
but they really cruised through the pack when they made a pass. I think the
2 meter Alcyone would have been perfect. The Gnome and Predator really flew 
pretty well and the quick charger that I borrowed from Hartmut (thank you VERY 
much) allowed us to head back out for our final assault on the hill after the
ESV showed 4.5 volts. When we packed up, it read 4.5 volts again and Dan Tx 
was down to 8.9 volts. We left with the sun setting, the batteries drained, 
the day to day stress relieved, and a smile that still hasn't worn off.

The high points:

Flying for over 1/2 an hour on the slope while tangling with Dan half a dozen 
times. Tangled wings at 30 feet and a brief dive with a recovery and back into 
it. None of it was intentional but it seemed that everytime I got to my right 
hand turn point, Dan was there doing his left hand turnaround. The lift zone 
was such that you were "in the corridor". We pulled this off several times 
and just kept laughing. Dan wasn't worried, they were both my planes!

Flying the UAS-1s and actually having them fly "ok". The wing twisting and 
the large fin seemed to make them turn reasonably flat and tight. For a plane 
with just aileron and elevator, they crabbed along the slope pretty well.

Having all the other flyers around and so few frequency conflicts. Lots of 
people on one channel would have been a bummer but the frequencies seemed to 
sort themselves out pretty well. The people with conflicts had other 
planes/channels to fly.

The Lows:

Getting hit in the back of the head with Dave Walter's new low wing ship. No
damage to me or the ship but the real low point was that I was launching it 
at the time!

Anker's carnage. He seemed to have more than his share of bad luck. When he 
decided to land his Legend, he caught a wingtip and did some damage. I was
flying at the time and all I could tell was something let go. I called to 
Dan and he said that there was damage and it wasn't until later that I found 
out it was just the wing holddown. He also broke his Oly and afterwards he 
mentioned he had gone 3 for 3.

The afterglow:

It was a great day on a slope that I wouldn't have given a second look if I 
hadn't spent 3 hours getting there. It was just what the doctor ordered in 
stress reduction and I'll be going back as soon as possible. It also proved 
to me that small hills on constant wind days can be fine. I'm going to go 
back and look at some of those "Not as good as Torrey Pines" hills with a 
different perspective. A long clear slope is just as good as a high hill.

One other point that Dan brought up was that the Predator finally lived up 
to it's name. After the last flight we fond that it had taken a "bite" out 
of the Gnome on one of our "love taps". There was a piece of yellow monocoat
stuck into the nose of the Predator (grey and red) and a matching "hole"
on the wingtip of the Gnome!

Total damage was a broken wing dowel on one Predator wing and the fin on the 
Gnome was cracked (same place I repaired friday night)

I shall return to the "mountains" of Cape Cod in the future!

    Jim, don't feel bad about your "hat removing" launch! :-) 
    
    Don't forget the one I had where I managed to throw the gnome straight
    up about 20', only to have it stall out, flip over, and bury itself
    nose first in the sand about 3 feet behind myself! I was sure I was
    gonna be pickin balsa outta my teeth on that one! :-) :-) :-)

At least you saw the one that ALMOST got you!

        The planes I brought down were:
        
                OLY II at 32 OZ!
        
                2 meter Accipeter II.    Full  function aileron/flap with
                3021 airfoil.
        
                Airtronics Legend with 120 inch custom 3072 airfoil.
        
                The first plane up was  the  Legend.  Haveing never slope
        soared  before  I  was  really worried  about  throwing  my  5LB+
        airplane into the air currents from the  "cliff".    It just flew
        wonderfully, but as Jim mentioned, most of the  other  ships were
        polyhedral  floaters and the Legend would be ripping through  the
        pack on passes.  The floaters were just hanging pointed  into the
        breeze.
        
                Next I tried the Accipeter.  Everything went well until I
        suddenly lost  control  and  it  disappeared  in  a dive into the
        parking lot.   There  was  no  KABOOM, so I knew I had missed the
        cars.  But when  I got there I could see it was not by much.  The
        damage was minimal, a crunched leading edge and broken holddowns.
        The reason for the crash was  a  dead  battery  pack.   I ha been
        suspicious of the pack for a while  and  now  its  going directly
        into the bin.
        
                Next I flew the OLY.  This ship  is  perfect for the kind
        of soaring we wre doing.  With plenty of down trim it has enopugh
        penetration.  For a long time I was sloping off  the  high  water
        mark, which is about 3 feet high.  The OLY would  stay up in this
        indefinitely.
        
                Then  I saw Jim Tyrie having piles of fun off the "cliff"
        further to the left which is  about 15' high , grabbed the Legend
        and threw it off.  This was  really  the  best, simply fantastic.
        The Legend would cruise back and forth at  a  good  rate of speed
        stable as a rock.  After about 30 to 45 minutes of this I decided
        it  was time to warm my fingers and landed on  the  beach  below.
        The problem was that I landed it 6 inches above the beach and had
        a wing tip tough. Wing holddown broken and the T tail damaged.
        
                I  then got the OLY, my only remaining airplane.  After a
        short while  this was too tame for me and I tried a loop.  2/3 of
        the way through  I  could  see  I didn't have enough elevator and
        would auger into the  top  of the "cliff", so I put in full down,
        discovered that I didn't have  enough  of that either and made an
        ungraceful, upside down, 45 degree landing  in  the  sand.   Both
        wingtips were damaged, so it was time  to throw all the pieces in
        the car and head for home.
        
                Overall  the  damage to all three planes was  slight  and
        well worth the experience.
        
                Slope soaring is more fun and easier than I had expected.
        Use any plane, the experience will be different, but real fun.
        
                The funniest part of the day was to see Lincoln  Ross try
        to fly another one day foam jobbie.  This thing flew  like  sh...
        He almost talked me into spending an evening doing my own.   Glad
        I didn't!
        
                I'll be there next year!
        
        Anker

    With all the sudden interest in slope, I am going to make a pitch
    for attendance at the '93 Mid-Columbia slope race.  Yes I know
    Washington is a long way to go, but it IS worth the trip and could
    be combined with a West Coast trip/vacation which is what I am
    planning to do.
    
    The organizers secure rooms at a VERY nice local hotel which is
    a scant 8 mile drive from the slopes.  The hotel($50/night) has
    a nice outdoor pool, sauna, good restaurant and is close to all
    kinds of malls, movie theaters, etc.  The city of Richland is
    a desert environment, so wives who don't enjoy R/C can get great
    tans by the pool, while we enjoy ourselves on the best slopes in
    America!  With any luck this year, not only will America's best
    compete, but hopefully some of Europe's F3F hotshots will come.
    
    I am planning on spending the weekend at the race's and then
    backpacking the following week in the Cascade mountains.  The
    scenery is AWESOME!
    
    If you decide to go, seriously think about bringing a ship.  Free
    flying is allowed before and after the races.  When you see the
    slopes you will be sorry if you don't.  
    
    RCSD will probably post the details in a future issue.  I really
    hope to go!
    
                                               Regards,
    
                                               Jim

I forgot to mention Lincoln.

He has a little "combat" ship that looked like an F-15 PSS plane. It flew but 
only made single direction passes at a distracting "belt" height. I mentioned 
that I didn't round my UAS-1 noses so I wouldn't poke an eye out... I would 
have felt better if Lincoln had been at eye level 8^)

He spent most of the day down at the high water mark with his HLG. He called 
it a micro slope and he did quite well. You have to fly very precise on a 5 
foot bubble and I found that I didn't have enough rudder to get positive 
response when I wanted to turn.

I think the 2 meter flat winged high performance gliders were the ship of the 
day yesterday. The way the Legend and Lumina tooled back and forth really made 
me wish I had brought something like that. An efficient aileron ship was just 
the ticket. I will bring one next time! (my Ninja would have been too heavy)

    I agree with Jim: I would have thought that slope was virtually
    unflyable. But with steady, smooth wind, it was actually quite
    enjoyable! 
    
    I had a ~20 minute flight on the Predator that ended abruptly when I
    flew too close to another transmitter when I was a good distance away
    from the plane. The Predator got captured by the other transmitter and
    augered into the sand, wiping out Wing #1. On goes Wing #2. Then I let
    Helmut get his paws on the sticks since he didn't seem to have anything
    to fly. Of course, he ended up flying it for a good half hour. When I 
    mentioned he was having no trouble keeping it airborne, he replied 
    "It's very smooth. It has good characteristics." I was absolutely
    bowled over. From Helmut Lelke, that is excessive, gushing praise!
    
    So, I get the transmitter back from Helmut, fly it for about 2 minutes,
    and Jim R. T-Bones me with his plane. I don't have enough altitude
    to recover, and the resulting drive into the dune breaks the wing bolt 
    and dowel. Sheesh! Down one Predator.
    
    I then pulled out the sloper that I had spent the last two weeks
    feverishly building for just this weekend. It's built around Ninja foam
    cores (supplied by R.A. Cores) and a simple box fuse that I slapped
    together. Didn't even have time to cover it, so I flew it in it's
    virgin balsa state. It flew OK, but didn't turn very crisply at all.
    Anker suggested that I seal the aileron hinge line and try again. I
    hope to do that soon and try it again at Bose before the REAL cold
    weather shows up. I also noticed a lot of up elevator trim, so my
    0-0 incidence needs to be changed. But clearly, it would need more
    wind to really shine. Saturday was ideal for handlaunch/2-M planes.
    
    It's worth mentioning that I finally saw a Klingburg Wing fly. John
    Blaser, one of the better craftsman in the CRRC club, brought his new
    Wing to the slope. It was very awkward to launch, but once airborne
    it flew beautifully! It didn't look like a glider so much as a stunt
    kite with no line attached. It appeared pretty stable. I found it
    difficult to see its orientation at times, but I guess it's OK if
    you're on the sticks.
    
    Definitely a good time. I'd love to try it in the (warm) summer, but
    it's not an appropriate activity when the beach is busy with people.
    
    Dave
    

    Have any of you New Englander's heard about potential slope sites
    in Maine?  I have visited a few times and it seems there were cliffs
    facing the ocean.  Can't remember where, however.
    
    There are incredible slopes all around where I live, unfortunately
    nearly all are tree covered.  The full scale gliders routinely
    cruise for hours on these slopes.
    
    I have spoken with a few of the glider guys in the area about
    organizing another slope fly at Harris Hill, Elmira, NY.
    This is a wonderful slope and has the National Soaring Museum.
    The last time this was done-about 3 years ago, it was in November
    because it is hard to get the field from the full scale guys.
    It worked well because there is a pilots lounge(heated) with
    coffee, soup , sandwiches, etc.  When this slope is working
    its a real winner.  The down side is it probably is a six hour
    drive for you guys. It would be a good chance to visit the museum,
    and get some flying in at the same time.  We had some New Englanders
    at the last event, and it was an AMA sanctioned event.
    
    
                                                     Regards,
    
                                                     Jim 

Flew at a new slope site this weekend! It's in West Roxbury, Mass. Here's the
particulars:

	Location:	W. Roxbury landfill
	Access:		Park at the gate, walk in 1/4 mile.
	Wind direction:	Southwest (I think)
	Slope incline:	Moderate. Generates relatively gentle lift.
	Terrain:	Mostly tall grass, very open, lots of room to land.

	Directions:	From Rt. 128, take 109 East to Rt. 1 (intersection is
			NOT well marked. It's immediately after crossing a
			bridge over the river.) Turn left onto Rt. 1 North,
			about 1/8 mile turn left at Hunan Pagoda restaurant
			into industrial park. Park at gate, walk in to the
			landfill and take the road that forks left, staying
			high. The slope overlooks the river, railroad tracks,
			and marshy land. Lots 'o ducks.

This is a capped landfill, so don't worry about tripping over any tomato soup
cans. Lincoln Ross organized this little foray. There were about 7 of us there:
Lincoln, Dan Ross, Alex Lob, Meg Pash, Ruane Crummet, Rick Penzik, and me. The
weather was a little drizzly, but the air was pretty smooth so we hung tough.
On a sunny day this place would be ideal because it's so open, you can search
all over the sky for thermals and ride them way back behind you because it's
very flat back there. We probably had about 6 mph wind today, so it was perfect
for HLG's and 2 meter floaters. 

This combat stuff is really sinking into people's blood, because there was a
lot of contact up in that sky. Occasionally the lift would die a bit, so we
would entertain ourselves by trying to clip the tops of a big clump of tall 
grass (sort of like cat-o-nine tails) and still keep flying. Even if you went
into the clump at full clip you wouldn't injure the plane. Great fun.

Not a bad site. It would be exceptional if you could drive right up to it. But
it's an easy walk. We stomped out of there at about noon when the rain came
down in earnest. On the way out, we spied a hawk sitting a low branch of a tree
close to the dirt road. It had some sort of small animal in it's talons and was
contentedly snacking on it. Payed us no attention whatsoever. Closest I've ever
been to a wild hawk. Nasty eating habits.

Dave

Couldn't agree more about the  table manners, however I was flying my local 
slope a while back, and really starting to think I'd got the hang of this game 
when a hawk arrived and flew right next to me for a while.

Boy! those guys fly well!

That's the difference (I guess) between doing it for fun and doing it for a 
living.

Nigel.

    I to inspected a "new" slope this week.  It is 5 miles from where I
    work and 31 miles from my house.
    
    It is a nice slope which is used by beginning hang glider pilots
    and RC slope soarers.  It is not as big as my local slope, but
    it is steeper and very acceptable.  I need to visit it again with
    a compass to see which way it faces(I got confused geting there
    and lost my bearings).
    
    When the wind blows from the west, I am set on my local slope which
    will support any thermal ship and mild slopers like the NSP Sparrow.
    If the component shifts even slightly, a great deal of the slope
    lift is lost.  The slope is about 600 ft. above the valley, but
    not real steep.  The Landing area is very nice.
    
    If we had consistent westerly wind, I would never have gotten into
    electric flight!  As it is, I get about 4 days a year on this slope.
    I usually have to work when the slope is working.
    
    
                                                  Regards,
    
                                                  Jim

    Is anyone else still flying slope this time of year? I was out last
    Sunday morning, temp -5C, frost over everything, frozen coffee dregs in
    the cup etc. But the sun was shining, the wind was blowing (albeit from
    a not very good direction) and a good time was had by all.
    
    A belated Happy New (Flying) Year,
    
    Malcolm

Yes Malcolm, I am!

Whaddya know, two twits in one country! My only problem in flying in this neck 
of the woods is persuading my car to get up the hills to my favourite slope!

Cheers

Nigel

    Hi Nigel,
    
    	That hasn't been a problem yet. Seeing anything in the fog has
    though. Surprising how quickly a silver Mustang can disappear.
    
    Where do you fly?
    
    Cheers,
    
    MAlcolm
    

    Malcom/Nigel,
    
                I have written Modelhaus for information on the Trabi
    F3E fuselage I have seen in their advertisements.  They have not
    written back.  Do either of you know anything about this offering?
    Maybe they do not want the bother of shipping to the USA.
    
                                                   Thanks,
    
                                                   Jim

    Jim,
    
    	Can't help offhand, but the name sounds familiar. I'll see what I
    can find out tonight from the mags at home.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Malcolm

Jim,

I'll look too, you never know!

Malcolm,

Most of my sloping is done in Haworth in W.Yorks, flying from a place called 
Brow Moor. I should point out that I don't fly very well, but this is an 
interesting place to crash. The lift seems to be extremely unpredictable. 
Prevailing winds are onto the slope, and there's a dirty great wind turbine up 
there to give a subtle hint as to direction/strength. The odd thing is that the 
lift available appears to have no relation to the wind speed. Sometimes you get 
a nice gentle breeze, and the lift nearly tears your wings off. On other 
occasions there's a hooligan blowing, and you sink like a stone. Then the next 
day it's the other way round......

I'm sure that this is nothing to do with my (in)ability!

My club also flies at Baildon Moor, but I've not made it over there yet.

By the way, my flying is restricted by not having a model that can cope with a 
really good blow. I've had the "Phase 6" recommended, any comments?

Cheers

Nigel

    Nic Wright (English F3B/F3F star) mentioned that he might be 
    attending the big slope race this year in Richland, Washington(USA).
    
    It would be fun to see him compete with America's best - Joe Wurts,
    Daryl Perkins, etc.
    
    Have you ever seen him fly at any of your slopes(not sure where he
    lives).
    
    Do you know of any slope races(F3F) scheduled in England this year?
    I need to use some frequent flyer tickets and would like to see
    an international glider event.
    
                                                               Thanks,
    
                                                               Jim

    Jim,
    
    	I couldn't find anything on the fuselage, but the UK agent for
    Modellhaus is:
    
    		MODELLHAUS
    		5 Wootton Rise
    		Wooten Wawen
    		Warwickshire
    		B95 6BJ		Tel: 0564 792784
    
    	- but I'll keep looking.
    
    Nigel,
    
    	We've got a couple of slopes like that down here in Hampshire as
    well. They certainly keep you on your toes. One of them has the grave
    of Lord Caernarvon on it (the guy who opened up Tutankhamun's Tomb).
    All I know is that the curse of the Pharoahs is alive and well!
    
    	A few people I know fly Phase 6's to good effect, both the
    Professional and Sport versions; they cope with a good blow well. The
    Middle Phase flies in surprisingly high winds as well.
    
    Cheers All,
    
    Malcolm

    Malcolm,
    
    Is that the Beacon, just off the A33 near Kingsclere?
    
    Angus

    Angus,
    
    	Re .-1. The very same. You know it?
    
    Malcolm

    Malcolm,
    
    I climbed to the top once a few years ago on a weekend. There were
    quite a few guys soaring (and crashing) up there.
    
    I've been toying with the idea of patching up a glider/soarer I crashed
    years ago (Ridge Recruit I think its called) and taking it up the
    beacon one day during the week and having a bash at flying it. I
    figure that mid week there wont be so much competition for air space and
    there'll be less spectators when the thing crashes.
    
    Its a fair slog to the top though. I have an electric glider (still in its
    box after three years daring me to find time to build it) which I thought
    about flying somewhere near the bottom of the Beacon. Saves on the hard
    slog and I can use my car (parked in the car park at the bottom of the
    hill) to recharge batteries.
    
    Angus
    I still have the Black Magic to complete.

    Will you guys stop giving me flashbacks! :-)
    
    I used to fly there regularly. I well remember walking/climbing up
    there a few weeks after major abdominal surgery. The wags at the top
    were placing bets on whether I would make it or by what hour I would
    make it.
    
    I best remember the old celtic ditch/dyke around the old settlement,
    that allowed you to stand out of the wind while you flew in some
    pretty super lift. The last two planes that I flew there were the
    Chapter-2 and my early PSS rendition of a Vickers Valiant V bomber.
    Boy have things progressed in PSS since then.
    
    I well remember irritating the scale slope contingent by entering the
    Valiant in their Meon Valley slope competition. They didn't want me in
    but as the Chairman of the MVSA and a well established troublemaker,
    they had little option. I received zero points for static because the
    plane was not a scale model of a glider but I finished up 4th out of 8
    in my class after the flying component was added to the scale score!.
    
    Thermal turns with a V-bomber would have thrilled the Russians at the
    time! :-)   The scale stall turn had them rolling/diving into the bushes. 
    
    Where was I?, oh yes Marlboro, surrounded by trees....	
    
    Watership Down was a lot easier..............
    
    Regards,
    
    EVL-1
    	
    
    

Malcolm,

Was that a hint that the Middle Phase would be better suited to one with two 
left thumbs ??! I'm looking for something to keep me in the air when it gets 
blowy, without giving me too hard a time. My durations are pretty pathetic right 
now, without making life any harder! (Practice man, practice).

Jim, 

I'm going to see a mate in Germany soon, I guess this is where Modelhaus are 
based? If that's the case, if you'll give me their address in Germany, and what 
details you're after I'll get my friend to write to them in German, maybe this 
will encourage them? If not they don't deserve your business! 

Meantime I'll check on F3F stuff for you. (When I typed that the first time I 
held the shift down too long. This produces a British pound sign instead of a 
"3". Now I know why the called it that!).

Cheers

Nigel

    EVL-1
    
    You're a brave man. I hope your mates on the top of the beacon had
    oxygen, adrenelin and a call to the helicopter ambulance set up for
    you.
    
    Angus

    
    It was close, but not as close as when I competed in the MVSA
    cross-country event two weeks later.........
    
    E. 

    Actually, we were wondering about campaigning to the local authority
    who manage the hill for a chair lift...
    
    As far as the Middle Phase is concerned, it's an easier plane to fly
    than the Professional Phase 6. I've never tried the Sport version so I
    don't know. The Professional is optimized for pure aerobatics, and has
    neutral stability in both roll (normal) and pitch (feels strange). If
    you dive it and release the elevator, it carries on diving at the same
    angle until corrected. Inverted performance is identical to
    right-way-up of course (provided you remember to move the elevator the
    other way!).
    
    Jim,
    
    	Sorry, I can't find anything further on the fuselage. I'd go for
    the other offer. By the way, as per a previous note, I've never seen
    Nic Wright fly, but if you're over here there are various F3F events
    around the country, usually publicized in the various magazine
    'diaries'.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Malcolm
     

    I have flown all of the 'phases and I lke the 6 the best. I think I
    still have a plan in the attic somewhere. Chris Foss flies his planes
    extensively before they make it to us. The P6 has been around quite a
    while and suits my style of flying.
    
    I found them hard to land, read easy to break, unless you add flaps. 
    The plane stays up in suprisingly light lift and will thermal. It is 
    best, however with a pound of ballast, in the fuselage, and a good 
    20mph wind. I well remember doing consecutive outside loops at will on 
    the Long Man, Sussex. (Those darn flash backs again!) :-)
    
    I heartily agree that it is a neutrally stable plane. The best one that
    I had used a .6oz glass covering on the fuse. This seemed to keep it
    all together much longer. An intermediate to expert plane, IMHO.
    
    Regards
    
    EVL-1.
                            

    Hi patrons on Beacon Hill..
    
    Strange.. Very strange !   this is my first read of this notes file 
    for about a year and.. low and behold I was up on Beacon on 31-Dec-1992 
    (my first time for years and its seems to have grown in height) 
    and and..  tucked under my arm my trusty phase 6... 
    
    .... the conditions were awfull, I was on my lonesome, neither the P6 
    nor my Algebra got above head height, if they had I couldn't have 
    seen it due to the drizzzle and mist... 
    
    In hindsight I'd have been much better off doing a couple of
    hours building or gathering browny points...  	
    
	Nice to hear from the UK locals and past locals (Eric EVL-1)
    
    Trev.

    Also...
    	about the F3F.. The good news.. 
    I have all the dates that were booked todate but as yet unpublished. 
    John Conway-Jones, a fellow member of MVSA, is/was slope CD for BARCS 
    and gave me a copy.
    
    The bad news... I didn't bring them into work.. I'll try to remember
    for tomorrow.
    
    Trev. 

    OK I found them.... F-Free-F 
    
    
      	    Please note the UK time difference, if phoning personal home 
            numbers ensure the time is between 18.00 - 21.00 UK  
  
      	    I have asked Gregg to contact me regarding International dates.
  
    Regards Trev.
    
    
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
      	    UK   F3F Competition Dates 1993	Version  Dec-92
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------  
      	                             UK Co-ordinator - Gregg Lewis
  
    
  DATE      WHAT                CONTACT	           UK HOME PHONE
  ------    ---------------     ---------------    -------------
  MAR 28    Huddersfield F3F  	Dave Beanland	   0924-280467
  
  APR 25    Meon Valley F3F   	John Conway-Jones  0734-340366
  
  MAY 1-2   BARCS Slopeglide I	Keith Nicols	   0656-667375
      	    F3F & Aerobatics
      	    South Wales
  
  MAY 15-16 BMFA Championships	Nick Wright
      	    F3F & Pylon 60" 
      	    Hole of Horcum    	
  
  JUN 13    (West Mendip F3F) 
  
  AUG 22    (Ribble Valley
      	    F3F & Aerobatic)
  
  SEP 12    Guisborough F3F   	Mike Roberts	   0287-639433
  
  SEP 26    South Wales SA F3F	Keith Nicols	   0656-667375
  
  OCT 3	    Hole of Horcum F3F	Chris Dawes	   0642-471419
  
  OCT 17    Meon Valley       	John Conway-Jones  0734-340366
      	    Slope pylon
  
  OCT 24    South Wales SA    	Keith Nicols	   0656-667375
      	    F3F	    
  
      	    ( ) = provisional
    

    Trevor,
    
          Can you tell me where the Hole of Horcum is located?  What
    is the nearest City?
    
                                                    Thanks,
    
                                                    Jim
    

    Jim,
    	Hole of Horcum is Yorkshire, nearest city is York. I flew there
    many years ago, its a realy goodie. If I recall corectly it will fly any
    direction except North - North East. Its a very big bowl shaped from 
    plan view like a horse shoe.
    
    Trev. 

    RE: -1
    
    Trevor,
    
          Thanks for the information.  I spent a week in York 4 years
    ago on my wedding trip.  I loved it!  The "dales" is certainly one
    of the most beautiful spots I have visited.
    
    I am entertaining the idea of coming to England instead of going to
    the slope race in Washington this year.  My wife will be accompanying
    me, and I know we would enjoy another vacation in Northern England.
    
    Thanks again for the info. 
    
                                                          Regards,
    
                                                          Jim

Jim,

If you're going to be in this area, let me know. Maybe we could arrange a 
meet/beer? I live about an hour's drive from York, in "Beautiful Bronte 
Country!". There's plenty of scenery, to keep those of a non-flying disposition 
happy, and quite an active club!

Cheers

Nigel

    Nigel,
    
    Beer? Healthy outdoor slope flying types don't drink do we? I'll have
    to go to the pub & think about it!
    
    
    Malcolm

Malcolm,

Take a few cans to the slope, you crash more but care less!


Cheers!

Nigel

    A neat game is to stack a couple of cans at the edge of the slope and try
    to knock them over!.
    
    The only hard part is to find a loonie who will put them up again while
    you are still flying :-)))
    
    More slopesick than ever...
    
    
    E x E.

    We do that, except we put the can on a small stick stuck into the
    ground. Makes for exciting flying, especially when 2+ aircraft arrive
    at the can together.
    
    What a mature, sensible sport this is.
    
    Malcolm

    Malcolm,
             I'm glad to see that there are still real slope pilots over 
    there. 
    
    While I am at it, F3F is for whimps!. Don't worry about it though, I 
    always get like this when its 5 dgrees F outside!.
    
    Give me a figure-8 race with four planes in a heat, any day....
    
    
    Regards,
    
    EVL-1.
           

    Evl-1,
    	Here 'ere.
    
    	At MVSA we still hold the traditional Open pile-in (oops.. Pylon)
    	It forces much more blood to flow.
    
    trev

    Trev,
         next Time you are in So'ton give my regards to Ian Stockdale of Solent
    Hobbies. He was the guy who gave me my MVSA farewell tankard that is
    enscribed "Evil Eric".
    
    I well remember my last pylon race in the UK. I was over there on two
    weeks vacation. It at Butser hill on the South end of the Northern
    slope. It was in the spring of 1993. I had managed to win all of my heats 
    with a borrowed plane - from Mark Passingham. I was saving my sceamer for 
    the RCME tropy races two weeks later. 
    
    Seeing as how I was in the semi's I decided to race my own ship. 
    It went like a rocket right up to where I lapped a guy. Well, lapped 
    is not the quite the right desciption, "Rammed" would be a better
    description. As we separated I, unfortunately, flew the wrong plane for a
    few seconds and mine hit the hill. OOPS!. 
    
    The reason that I mixed the planes up was that the other plane had a 
    wing on it that I had made. The damage was fortunately minimal and I 
    could still fly in the up and coming RCME trophy race, or so I thought.  
    
    The race two weeks later was called off but not after I had climbed all
    the way to the top of those hills near Bristol; Crookes peak is it?.
    More Oxygen again... :-) 
    
    I packed my planes into my wooden crate and headed back to the USA. The
    result was not what I wanted but I still had a lingering memory of the 
    patchwork quilt fields and the "Whoosh" of four racing birds in the 
    race-commencing-sail-boat-start-dive.
    
    [I don't know if you guys can take any more of these flashbacks??? :-)
    but bear with an old man and his memories,,,,,,,]
    
    I did manage a couple of outings with the US guys in California. Their
    International slope races are the best I've ever seen. I managed a 6th
    and a 10th out of fields of 40 plus. Their technology was way ahead of
    me by then. Joe Wurts, Rich Spicer, Don Edberg, just to name a few were
    guys that I flew with. 
    
    I have not flown slope sine 1985 but I live in hope.
    
    End of flashback!.
    
    
    Regards,
    
    EVIL ERIC!.
    

    EVL-1,
    
    	It WAS in the spring of 1993 eh? Perhaps it's a prediction!
    
    Malc

    Ooops!, I meant spring of 1983. See what happens to the mind below
    freezing???.
    
    E x 2.

Actually, he's got a pact with a horned being, and uses time travel to get to 
decent flying weather! :^)

Nigel.

Just wanted to mention that the article I wrote on the trip to the Cape 
and the "Ugly As Sin" ships I built in a single night, is in the May 1993 
RCSD on page 26. The tiny picture included will show myself, Dan Snow, 
and Anker Berg-Sonne as well as other names mentioned in the glider notes 
from New England.

This plane and the trip are discussed in this topic back around reply .140

Here is an interesting exchange about helicopter slope soaring going on
in the rec.models news group.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################


I'm trying to figure out how to slope soar with my Hirobo Shuttle ZX
R/C helicopter, and figured some of you out in netland would find my
experiences to date interesting.

I live in San Pedro, which is just south of Los Angeles.  San Pedro is
on the south side of the Palos Verdes peninsula.  The Palos Verdes
peninsula extends into the ocean, and has cliffs overlooking the beach
all the way around the peninsula.  There are a number of little bowls
and coves that catch the sea wind, funnel it, and shoot it straight
up.  So, the slope soaring is AWESOME.  In fact, it's almost boring
because there is so much lift almost every afternoon.  The site is
shared by R/C glider enthusiasts and paraglider guys.

Anyway, I've taken the engine out of my Shuttle to make it lighter.  I
hold it in my left hand and stand at the edge of the cliff, right over
a little bowl that gives a `sweet spot' of really high lift.  I switch
my radio to idle-up 2, and go full negative on the collective.  This
gives me a pitch of negative 7 degrees on the helicopter blades.  I
have to hold the helicopter about 60 degrees nose up (almost vertical)
so that the rotor disk is perpendicular to the wind.  The blades start
to rotate, and build up speed sort of slowly.  In this mode, the blades
look about like a window fan that is turned off but is rotating lazily
because of the breeze blowing through the window.  The blades gradually
speed up.  At some point, a huge transition takes place, and the blades
ramp up dramatically in speed.  The helicopter wants to leap out of my
hands!  There's a HUGE amount of lift being generated by the rotor
head, and it appears to be spinning substantially faster than when I
have the engine on and am hovering!  The blades make an intense humming
noise at this point, and I really have to hold onto the helicopter.

I had tried to get the blades going at negative 3 degrees (the right
ballpark setting for a standard autorotation), but it took quite a long
time for the wind to get them turning fast enough to make the
transition to really fast high-lift rotation.

As the blades rotate faster and faster, their angle of attack
decreases.  This is because the horizontal component of the wind
direction vector gets larger.  (When the blades are not rotating, the
angle of attack is about 83 degrees.  The wind is coming at 90 degrees
to the plane of the rotor disk, and the blades are at negative 7
degrees.  As the blades start to rotate, they introduce a `horizontal'
component to the air they are seeing.  They are traveling through air
that is coming at them from below and in front of them.)

I'm certain that what I'm seeing at the point of the transition
described above is the moment the blade angle of attack descends below
the stall angle of attack.  Prior to this point the blades are
stalled.  After this point the blades are not stalled, and the lift
increases dramatically.

When the blades get past the stall AOA and really start to scream, I
switch out of idle-up 2 to normal flight mode.  The low-end pitch in
normal mode on my helicopter is set to negative 3 degrees of pitch.  I
also dump in full forward cyclic, and rotate the helicopter from a
nose-up attitude to a level flight attitude.

I hold the helicopter aloft in the wind with my left hand, and fly the
cyclic with my right hand.  I can manipulate cyclic to move the
helicopter nose up and nose down, and left and right.

I've found that the head speed varies substantially with nose-up or
nose-down attitude.  In a level attitude, the wind is blowing at the
blades at maybe a 30 degree angle, and the head speed slows down quite
a bit.  If I pitch up from level and increase the angle at which the
wind is hitting the rotor disk, the head speed increases fairly
dramatically.  Since I'm holding the helicopter with my left hand, I
can feel how much lift is being generated.  With the nose up, a ton of
lift is generated; far more than the weight of the helicopter.  If I
let go of it, it would go up and backwards really fast.  On the other
hand, when I have the helicopter level it reaches a steady-state head
speed that is quite a bit lower.  At that head speed, it doesn't quite
generate enough lift to sustain its own weight.  At this point, I'm
playing around with pitch settings to see if I can increase the lift
the rotor disk is generating when the helicopter is in a level flight
attitude.  It appears that I maximize the lift in level attitude at a
pitch setting of about positive one.  At this pitch setting the rotor
head speed is pretty slow, but the lift is higher than at a pitch
setting of negative 3.

A couple of days ago I went to the slope site with my helicopter, and
found several glider guys there.  One of them happens also to be an R/C
heli pilot.  He offered to hold the helicopter, so that I could stand
back and fly it with both hands on my transmitter.  He would briefly
let go of the helicopter, and see how it wanted to fly.  We talked for
a while, and he kind of egged me on.  We decided to have him let go of
the thing and let it fly.  My initial goal was to simply get it down on
the ground in one piece.  He would let it go, and I hovered the heli in
the wind some.  It really seems to want to fly!  Anyway, after a few
seconds I would use cyclic to move the heli back over the edge of the
cliff and set it down on the ground.  The landings are kind of hard at
the moment.  It's like trying to learn how to do auto-rotation landings
all over again.  The heli may be three or four or six or eight feet in
the air, lose all head speed, and kind of bonk down onto the ground
fairly hard.  I have metal landing gear, and they tend to get rather
splayed!

Yesterday, I went out to the glider site, and there was a lot of great
lift.  I'd stand at the edge of the cliff in my `sweet spot', and the
wind would feel like a gale.  I held the helicopter aloft a couple of
times and `flew' it with cyclic, tethered by my left arm as it were.
The third time, I felt I had to go for it.  So, holding the heli aloft,
I pitched it back to ramp up the head speed, pitched it level, and let
it go!  It went straight up three or four feet, and I stepped back
maybe fifteen or twenty feet.  I tried to hover it in the wind and then
land it.  Again, I ended up playing it in the wind for several seconds,
losing head speed at a height of several feet, and bonking it onto the
ground rather hard.  Nonetheless, I suffered the old R/C-induced
ear-to-ear grin disease!  I did this three more times, each time with a
hard landing.  My heli was getting a bit banged up at that point, and I
was getting into heart-pound/knee-knock mode, so I called it a day.

What I really want to do is get the thing in a sustained hover over the
edge of the cliff in the high wind.  It would be awesome to be able to
stay out there for 10 or more minutes, and then come back over the edge
for an auto-rotation landing.  Then, maybe move the thing laterally
back and forth over the edge of the cliff.

Greg Johnson
[email protected]


++++++++++++++++++++++ The full NEWS header follows +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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From: [email protected]
Subject: slope soaring a helicopter (long)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Originator: johnson@charming
Lines: 126
Sender: [email protected] (Usenet News Manager)
Organization: Northrop Research & Technology Center, Palos Verdes, CA
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 18:18:09 GMT


It sounds like the minimum sink rate of your helicopter in autorotation
is too high. Here is a simple formula (based on actuator disc momentum
theory) that predicts the minimum possible equilibrium sink rate for a 
helicopter in autorotation: 

Vsink=sqrt(2*weight/(ro*A)) 

Where:
Vsink is the still air minimum sink rate in ft/sec
ro is the air density, .002377  slug/ft^3 @ sea level
A is the disc area (pi*radius^2), ft^2
weight is the total vehicle weight in pounds

Here are my guesses for the Shuttle w/o motor:

weight=4lbs
A=8.8ft^2

Vsink=19.6 ft/sec or 1176 fpm!!!

This is a very high sink rate for a soaring aircraft. You will need
a very steep hill with 20+ mph winds to stay aloft. Your actual sink
rate is most likely higher than this theoretical minimum.

To reduce the sinking speed the disc area must be increased. Longer blades
are the obvious solution. For a more reasonable sink rate of 500 fpm, a 
disc area of 48.5 ft^2 is required. This means a rotor diameter of 7.9 ft!

Hope this helps


Steve Morris
Stanford, CA
 




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From: [email protected] (Stephen James Morris)
Subject: Re: slope soaring a helicopter (long)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Sender: [email protected] (Mr News)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 93 16:34:20 GMT
Lines: 36


In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Stephen James Morris) writes:
> It sounds like the minimum sink rate of your helicopter in autorotation
> is too high.

> Vsink=19.6 ft/sec or 1176 fpm!!!
> 
> This is a very high sink rate for a soaring aircraft. You will need
> a very steep hill with 20+ mph winds to stay aloft. Your actual sink
> rate is most likely higher than this theoretical minimum.
> 
> To reduce the sinking speed the disc area must be increased. Longer blades
> are the obvious solution. For a more reasonable sink rate of 500 fpm, a 
> disc area of 48.5 ft^2 is required. This means a rotor diameter of 7.9 ft!

To put this in perspective, a slope-soarer flying at about 40 mph with a
glide ratio of 6:1 will sink at about 500 fpm - and 6:1's probably not
particularly impressive even for a slope-brick...

Another area you'll lose out on with a chopper is penetration. If you
get winds strong enough to provide enough lift to stay up, you'll probably
find your model being blown backward. With enough speed to make headway
against the wind the sink rate would probably be spectacular!

Sounds like a fun thing to try though, just keep those landings gentle :-)

Chris Kaiser

Postgrad, Elec. Eng. Dept.
University of Canterbury
Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND




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From: [email protected] (Chris Kaiser)
Subject: Re: slope soaring a helicopter (long)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: betelgeux.canterbury.ac.nz
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of Canterbury, New Zealand
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 10:15:35 GMT
Lines: 32


>> It sounds like the minimum sink rate of your helicopter in autorotation
>> is too high.
>> Vsink=19.6 ft/sec or 1176 fpm!!!
>> 
>> This is a very high sink rate for a soaring aircraft. You will need
>> a very steep hill with 20+ mph winds to stay aloft. Your actual sink
>> rate is most likely higher than this theoretical minimum.

>To put this in perspective, a slope-soarer flying at about 40 mph with a
>glide ratio of 6:1 will sink at about 500 fpm - and 6:1's probably not
>particularly impressive even for a slope-brick...

>Another area you'll lose out on with a chopper is penetration. If you
>get winds strong enough to provide enough lift to stay up, you'll probably
>find your model being blown backward. With enough speed to make headway
>against the wind the sink rate would probably be spectacular

Don't forget about "translational lift", however.  A helicopter in forward
(or any other direction) flight requires a great deal less power to generate
the same amount of lift.  I presume that it works the other way also; a 
heli in forward flight, with the same amount of power, would have a lower 
sink rate.  

From the original post, I'm inclined to believe that the poster's helicopter
had it's blades accelerate quickly when it reached the point of translational
lift.

Does that make sense, or am I dreaming?

It seems like the translational lift would provide enough help to allow this
thing to fly the slope.  I'm not going to experiment with mine, however.
To the original poster:  Why not experiment with the engine in?  Fly the 
thing normally, and use your throttle hold switch along with a stunt
switch to be able to recover under power if necessary...

   -swb-  ([email protected])


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From: [email protected] (Steven W Bixby)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: slope soaring a helicopter (long)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 09:37:21 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[email protected]>  <[email protected]>  <[email protected]>
Lines: 36


Steve Morris writes:

>It sounds like the minimum sink rate of your helicopter in autorotation
>is too high. Here is a simple formula (based on actuator disc momentum
>theory) that predicts the minimum possible equilibrium sink rate for a
>helicopter in autorotation:
>
>Vsink=sqrt(2*weight/(ro*A))
>
>Where:
>Vsink is the still air minimum sink rate in ft/sec
>ro is the air density, .002377  slug/ft^3 @ sea level
>A is the disc area (pi*radius^2), ft^2
>weight is the total vehicle weight in pounds
>
>Here are my guesses for the Shuttle w/o motor:
>
>weight=4lbs
>A=8.8ft^2
>
>Vsink=19.6 ft/sec or 1176 fpm!!!
>

My blades are about 3 feet long (give or take a few inches).  Using
a radius of 3, I come up with a rotor disk area of about 28 square feet,
rather than the 8.8 square feet you mention.  Using your formula, this
gives me a sink rate of 10.96 feet per second, or about 657 feet per
minute.  This comes out to a wind with a vertical component of about
7.5 miles per hour.  I figure the angle of the wind I'm flying in at
the top of the slope to be about 30 degrees, so I need a wind of about
15 miles per hour.  This actually corresponds pretty well with my empirical
observations.

A couple of problems:  I'm pretty sure my Shuttle is more like 7 or 8
pounds even without engine than 4 pounds.  This comes out to a wind
requirement of about 19 miles per hour.  Still pretty close to what
I'm observing.

How does the above formula vary as the rotor disk varies from
perpendicular to the airstream?  Can I just take the component of the
wind that is perpendicular to the rotor disk and use that?

>Hope this helps
>

Extremely helpful and interesting!  Thanks!

Greg Johnson
[email protected]


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From: [email protected] (Greg Johnson)
Subject: Re: slope soaring a helicopter (long)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Followup-To:  [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: Northrop Research & Technology Center, Palos Verdes, CA
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 17:00:28 GMT
Lines: 49

    			Slope Soaring, Anyone?
    
    This weekend, Oct 16 and 17, is the annual Northeast Sailplanes
    pilgrimmage to Cape Cod. It's a weekend that guarantees lots of fun,
    flying, and utter destruction (mostly of Sal's planes, I hope). Sal
    and his friends stay at the Seascape Motel (in Wellfleet? or is it
    Truro?), then decide where to fly that day based on the wind direction. 
    If the wind is from the west, they fly right behind the hotel. If it's
    from the east, then they go to the huge slopes on the ocean side of the
    cape for what must be absolutely phenomenal slope soaring.
    Unfortunately, the wind rarely blows from the east, and when it does
    we generally end up waist deep in snow.
    
    I have a conflict with the CRRC Auction on Sunday, but I plan to make
    a day trip down there Saturday. I will be traveling down 495 early in
    the morning, around 7:30 or so, and welcome anyone who wants to car pool
    or caravan. My hanger will include a Scooter derived, Ninja winged,
    homebuilt sloper, and a new light weight Predator if I finish it by
    Friday night. 
    
    If you choose to come, pray for wind and DRESS WARMLY. It ain't summer
    anymore, and leaning into a stiff 30 mph wind in 40 degree weather
    wearing only a lightweight jacket will suck the energy out of you
    before you know it. Thermals are not out of the question (the kind of
    thermals you wear, not fly in...). Send me a note if you want to get
    together.
    
    Hope to see you there.
    
    Dave

I'll touch base with you on friday. It's looking more and more like 
I'll need saturday in the shop so I might be doing the same trip on 
sunday if anyone is interested. I WILL make it down this year 8^)

Dave, have the CRRC guys planned another day at Helmut's?

    Haven't heard anything about another Helmut day. I'll ask around.
    

The red head that brought the auction flyers to the Billerica 
fun-fly mentioned it so you might start by asking him on sunday.

    
				Soaring at Cape Cod

	Dan Snow and I were the only locals to show up at the Seascape this
	weekend. We headed down Saturday morning, and most of the way to
	the Cape we were hacking our way through pea soup fog. Not a good
	sign. Once we got over the Cape Cod Canal, the sky cleared up, but
	there was barely a wisp of wind. 

	Arriving at the Seascape, we took note of the American flag out 
	front hanging placidly limp. The NSP guys were standing around by
	the slope, drinking coffee and staring out at the glass smooth bay.
	There was a very gentle breeze quartering the slope. A few of us
	tried sloping our very lightest airplanes, but it was hopeless.

	Dan and I sat down and had some lunch, then we were entertained by
	some rube who had built an experimental flying wing powered by an
	Astro 05 with 7 cell pack and pusher prop. There was absolutely no
	way to hold this thing and get a proper handlaunch, so the first
	few tries looked sort of like a pizza box thrown over the slope. At
	one point Dan picked up the wing, looked over at me, and mouthed
	"This sucker is HEAVY!". It never did fly, but it sure was rugged,
	must have survived a half dozen hard landings, sometimes with the
	motor still going full bore.

	Dan and I finally decided to look elsewhere, packed our stuff back in
	the car, and were about to leave... when we noticed someone sloping
	a plane and keeping it up! The flag... it's moving! Back out come the
	light planes (we each brought a Predator). At first, there was just 
	enough wind to keep the planes aloft, but it slowly picked up to 
	around 10 mph or so. Certainly not a gale, but sufficient lift to 
	sustain the true slope ships.

	By 2:30, the wind was strong enough for any reasonable sloper (though
	still not enough for the R/C gulls, I never did see one of them fly).
	The most popular plane by far was the NSP Sparrow. It's a pretty 
	simple 65" span sloper with a V tail, and it flew beautifully. So
	nice, in fact, that I plan to order one from Sal this week. My Ninja-
	winged, Scooter derived plane had a headon mid air with a Sparrow
	that knocked off my fin and took a gob of foam out of my wing... and
	his Sparrow had a slight rip in the covering. I was impressed.

	Other planes flown:
		* Coyote - Pretty fast, nice axial rolls. Has one of those
		  unbreakable plastic fuse's. Not as pretty as the other
		  planes.

		* Renegade - Nice performance, but not a standout.

		* Shredder - Wow! This is a pylon racer from the Left Coast,
		  and its pedigree showed! It's slender wings pivot for roll
		  control, and the long tail moment makes it fly reeeeeaaaal
		  smooth. Probably the fastest plane there.

		* Sparrow Hawk - This is a bigger, 2 Meter version of the
		  Sparrow. Also a good sloper, though not so nimble.

		* Dodgson Pivot - Dennis Phelan let me fly this plane for
		  a while. For some reason, I was not at all comfortable with
		  it. It initiated turns quickly, but then it lost "authority"
		  coming out of the turn, I'd have to use full opposite stick.
		  Other than that, it flew well.

	There were also a few full size (like 120") sailplanes there flown
	by some of the better pilots, like Bob Powers, Mike Lachowski, and
	Dennis Phelan. The wind was light enough that they could come in 
	with full flaps and catch the plane.
    
    	And we even had one guy show up with a para-sail. He would inflate
    	it while on the top of the slope, then kind of walked over the side
    	and was airborne. Unfortunately, there wasn't enough air to sustain
    	him, so it was a gentle sink to the beach below. The 'chute was a
    	multi-colored beauty, very stylish.

	So, a good time was had by all. I'd like to go down again this year
	before the weather turns real cold, but it doesn't look like there
	will be too many free weekends.

	Dave

                                           

    RE: -1
    
    Dave,
    
        I have flown my father's NSP Sparrow numerous times and concur
    that it is a nice ship.  One of the few that truly does fly well
    on our modest inland slopes.  If you buy the kit be sure to beef
    up the fuselage in the wing saddle area with carbon or kevlar.
    They are notoriously weak in this area!  Wish I could have been
    there!
    
                                                     Regards,
    
                                                     Jim

Family problems prevented me from going (again). Some of us are planning 
a saturday at an earthen dam site in Otis (near Mass Pike exit 3) in 
early November. As was last year, I'll now get the incentive to get 
stuff done. Doesn't sound as if "anything would fly" this year.


Jim Blum: Is it too far for you to head out to Westfield MA to join us?

    RE: -1
    
    Jim,
    
       Westfield is about a 5-6 hour drive for me.  I would like to
    attend but most of my weekends are spoken for this fall due to
    facility downsizings in Upstate New York.  I had planned to go
    to the Cape Cod fly, but work nixed it(voicemail install in RCO).
    
                                                     Thanks,
    
                                                     Jim

Actually, I talked to the guy that mentioned the site last night and he 
said that it didn't work out as well as hoped. During high wind sessions, 
the lift bubble was compressed to an almost unusable size. He recommended 
the use of a site on Rt2 in North Adams MA that is used by hang gliders. 
3000' to the valley below gives great lift all day long with a westerly 
wind. Turns out the Otis site might be usable on light lift days with 
thermal/HLG ships rather than flat out slope ships. From your direction 
this is about 20 minutes south of Exit 2 (Lee).

I didn't know where in upstate NY you were so I figured I'd ask. Doesn't 
sound like a day trip.

Sal and Stan keep talking about some great sites up near them but that's 
about 3-4 hours from here for us.

	Well, I took the plunge, I ventured into the Great Unknown, I cast
	my money into the void. Yes, you guessed it, I just ordered a plane
	from NSP. 

	After a short discussion with Sal, punctuated by frequent interruptions,
	I decided to get the Sparrow with the prebuilt wings. The wings are
	white foam reinforced with FG and carbon, covered with a veneer (some-
	thing other than obechi). I'll build the version that uses just 
	elevator for the V-tail, with a separate servo in each wing. Sal has
	found that spoilerons is the best setup. I was going to get Airtronics
	141 servos, but Sal says they're too big to fit in the wing, so I'm
	ordering Hitec HS80-M servos, which he swears by. They're also metal
	geared, but in a more compact package.

	The plane is $160, the servos $40 each. Add to that a new receiver
	at $60 or so and it comes to a bit more $$$ than I had planned on
	(so what's new?). This is my first order from Sal. I start the clock
	today, let's see how long it takes him to deliver. He claimed the
	fuselage is backordered and he expects them by the end of the week.
	Does this sound familiar to anyone?

	Dave

    

    Also, keep track of what he charges you for shipping, then look at the
    label on the box when it comes in. He charged me $20 bucks for the
    Saber and the actual UPS label was $3 bucks.

The box costs something. I'm paying almost $5 for a large glider wing 
length double wall box (on a onesy basis)

    
    Dave,
    
        If you paid $160, what was the $106 price for that was listed
       in NSP ??? Was the $106 just a bogus price for the finished wing
       or did we interpret wrong ??
    
    George

The $106 priee is just a set of wings. This is for the person that 
trashes his or the kit buyer that reconsiders after he runs out of 
"spare time". The price right above it is the prebuilt full kit, the 
$160.

    Yeah, I interpreted that $106 the same way that George did, but Sal set
    me straight on that real quick! It's just the replacement wings.
    
    As for charging extra for a box, over and above the shipping fee, that
    just isn't done! When you buy a kit, the box is obviously included!
    Sheesh.
    
    Dave
    

Sal's S&H fee seems to be $7 recently. DCU does the Sparrow fuselage 
for him.

             <<< Note 1261.201 by SNAX::SMITH "I FEEL THE NEED" >>>
>    Also, keep track of what he charges you for shipping, then look at the
>    label on the box when it comes in. He charged me $20 bucks for the
>    Saber and the actual UPS label was $3 bucks.

Steve - R U sure it only cost $3.00?

That seems too good to be true.

I have never seen a price on any box I receive from UPS but
I have shipped many things via and $3.00 seems more like
the insurance charge.

I wish they would put the price on all the boxes and that
we could hold retailers to exact shipping cost.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

Well, I can tell you that recently I shipped a 15lb box to Sal 
for $13. The problem was that it was oversized (wings) and they 
charge at a set weight density with a minimum weight of 25 lbs. 
A typical 3 lb Gremlin package shipped UPS ground within New 
England costs me $3-4. It's possible you missed the leading $1x.xx

You pay for oversized if the length + girth is over 84" so you'd 
have to be 4"x8"x60" or less to make the normal ground charges 
(assuming 10' wingspan)

    There's usually a paper stamp on the box with the "cancel" stamp on
    it and it shows the price. The box was not oversized as it was only the
    length of the fuse or one wing if you want to look at it that way. You
    know my red wing case/bag, it was just slightly longer than that. When
    I bought the Pulsar, it was the same situation.
    
    My son lives in Nevada and I ship stuff out to him on occasion. I can
    ship a pretty good size box that weighs a good 10 to 15 pounds for
    around 5 to 7 bucks.
    
    That's ok. Dave can verify it when he gets the package. 8^)
    
    Steve

Yup, I know your bag size 8^)

10' wings gives a bag length of 60+" by 10" wing chord give a minimum 
girth of 20" with zero height. Figuring this back to the 84" total 
length/girth says that if the package was thicker than 2", it was 
oversized and charged at 25 lbs minimum. This doesn't include any 
insurance charge for over $100. Yes, I'll admit to my $13 package being 
insured for $680 but you'd be surprised how quick it adds up. I know I 
have been. If it's under 84", no problem. If it's over (and they charge 
O/S), triple the charges (really 25/weight is the multiplier).

They usually mark oversized packages with an O/S on the face with the 
label.

    Congrats on the Sparrow purchase Dave, I think you will like it.
    
    The first time I flew my father's "standard"(SD6080 w/ balsa sheeting)
    Sparrow last year on our slope, I was so excited I immediately
    tried to order the prebagged SD8000 version.   They were not
    available at the time(forgot the reason) so I never did get one,
    but I WAS that excited.  The speed and roll rate made it a fun
    plane coupled with the fact that you could leave it all assembled
    and throw it in the car.  
    
    As a point of reference on shipping cost, my Surprise II(75" one piece
    wing) was about $25 to ship UPS 2nd day air from Wharton, NJ to
    Springwater N.Y.
    
    Gee if enough interest gets built up over the next year, maybe we
    could hold our own "Fall Speed Festival" at the Cape next fall!
    
    
                                                  Regards,
    
                                                  Jim

	I got the Sparrow kit via UPS yesterday. Actually, they tried to 
	deliver it to me Friday but there was no one to accept it, so I 
	had to pick it up from UPS in Chelmsford. Considering that I ordered 
	the plane Oct. 20, that's pretty good delivery time! Sal gets an
	"A" there.

	There isn't a whole lot to this kit. The fuse seems to be a standard
	Leroy Satterley design, very similar to the Alcyone. It has a big 
	opening under the wing (which is top mounted, single piece, bolt on)
	and of course the opening up front for the canopy. This makes me a 
	bit suspicious of the strength of the fuse in the vicinity of the
	wing. I might add some formers to help stiffen it and resist buckling
	forces. I'm not impressed by the fit of the canopy. It just sort of
	plops on the fuse. It isn't self aligning like the one for the Falcon
	(which was a beautiful fit). Two strips of Kevlar run the length of
	the fuse. In the very back, the two halves weren't joined properly
	so I'll have to reinforce with FG. And the lengthwise seam on the
	top and bottom will have to be smoothed out. 

	The wings are presheeted with something similar to Obechi, and the
	ailerons are prerouted but have to be detached. I'll have to route
	the servo holes myself. The wings are very clean, but I wonder just
	how much carbon reinforcement is in there. I couldn't see any fibers
	from the root end. It's an SD8000 airfoil, looks very slippery and
	fast. 

	Sal's write up for the Sparrow says that the tail and wingtips are
	precut, but he doesn't say anything about pre-sanded. They're just
	1/4" blocks cut to shape. There's LOTS of sanding to be done. Kind
	of reminds me of Sig kits. (Here's a solid block of balsa; cut away
	everything that doesn't look like an airplane...) Am I asking too
	much of $160 to get presheeted foam stabs? 

	There are several long pieces of basswood, used for leading edge
	and facing. (That's why the Sparrow that collided with my sloper
	cut through my wing like butter; my leading edge was balsa.) The
	control rods are very thin piano wire, already Z bent at the ends,
	that slip through slender tubing. A bag of hardware provides you
	with plywood mounting blocks, aileron torque rods (which I won't
	be needing), clevises, etc. Looked pretty complete to me.

	Rounding out the package is the instruction sheet and full size
	blueline plans, which are somewhat amateurishly drawn. 

	I think this will be a good flying plane that will also look nice.
	But when I compare the kit to the kind of product you get from,
	say, Great Planes, it does seem a bit overpriced. But I'm willing
	to give NSP the benefit of the doubt; the plane is still in it's 
	infancy, and the kit will probably get better if they continue to	
	sell.

	So, like, am I out of whack on this $160 thing? It's possible. I
	went looking for a new vehicle this summer and found that a sport
	utility (i.e. a stupid TRUCK) goes for $22K, so maybe $160 for 
	a simple kit is reasonable.

	Dave

If you read the directions, You'll be hogging out the top of the 
fuselage tailboom for the stabs to be mounted. The BLOCK stabs and 
tips are disappointing as is the canopy lip being missing. They 
did a better job on the SparrowHawk fuselage I used on the Alcyone 
2M. These fuselages come from DCU which is just getting it's act 
together on doing them. They don't compare to the Steve Schommer 
weight.

    So what did you get charged for shipping, and what does the box
    actually  say??????????

    Didn't check the box, but Sal charged me $6 for shipping. I have no
    complaint with that.
    
    The rear of the fuse doesn't mate properly on the bottom, which doesn't
    get removed for the V-tail, so I still have to fix it.
    

    In conversation with Jim Reith last night, he let it slip that he too
    bought a Sparrow kit. That slippery character, he was going to try to 
    surprise me at the slope with it some day! But he just couldn't keep it
    secret, especially when I kept hitting him with questions about the way
    the wingtips are attached, and he seemed to know an AWFUL lot about
    the kit!
    
    So, now there's two of us. I wonder who will finish his first...
    
    By the way, another interesting tidbit about the presheeted wings: in
    the catalog it says they are reinforced with carbon fiber, and Sal also
    told me that, but holding the wing up to a strong light, I can't see
    the shadow of any reinforcement fibers. Hmmmmmmm.
    
    Dave
    

    I wish that you guys could find a real slope. I have several aerobatic
    slopers that have been gathering dust for over 11 years!. Boy would I
    love to fly them again?.
    
    I need the kind of lift that would keep a Ninja airborne.
    
    
    E.

    
    No problem Eric, bung your 'planes in a suitcase and come on over to
    Yorkshire! We have slopes here that'll get the pilot airborne, never
    mind the plane!  8^)
    
    PS> Don't forget your 35Mhz radio gear!
    
    Nigel
    

    I have a full compliment of JR 35 Mhz radio modules and receivers, as well
    as a quite a few sets of xtals. I even have some 27Mhz radios....
    
    The last time that I flew was at Crookes Peak, near Bristol? I think.
    The week before was at Butser Hill in a pylon race, the week before was
    The Long Man, the week before was Eastbourne, and before that Devil's
    Dyke..........flashbacks all over the place....get the picture.
    
    I flew Phase-4's, Avengers, Scale Vickers Valiant, Scale BAe Hawk,
    Tangents, Mark-1's (Pylon racers), Middle Phases, chapter 1-2-3 and
    4's, Algebra's. Sorta low key like my power flying today. 
    
    Come to think of I still have a pewter tankard fron the Meon Valley SA 
    with "Evil Eric" on it!. It was presented by Ian Stockdale, the chappie 
    who is importing those jet turbines in S'oton.
    
    I had a plane published in RCME called the Chapter-2, low wing symetrical
    jobby. Used to see quite a few, not quite as many as Gremlins. Had a
    "Gremlin day" with them once. I was at Beacon hill, near Newbury with
    my buddy Mark Passingham. Four Chapter-2's took-off only mine came down 
    in one piece.......
    
    This was over 11 years ago....sigh...
    
    e.
    
                                    

    Evil,
    	I remeber the "Chapters" (I think I still have the plans somewhere) 
    but what's this Chapter IV..?
    
    	I also have an Old MVSA newsletter with some strange scribblings of
    yours (some which were admitted to and some signed annon..)
    
    TRev

    I remember using a pen name of "BIG STICKMAN". What did I use back
    then???.
    
    E.

    Yes E. now you mention it that rings a bell.
    I don't think I was a member while you were in the Club but I think I
    got a back issue from Lee Wheeler of the Alton club. Didn't you have
    some involvement there for a short time.. ummm this is probably 10-12
    years ago?
    
    Trev

    By the way Eric I am in the chair as Editor for MVSA.. if you want to
    start writing an expat's column I'll be very happy to publish..(VERY
    'APPY) You know the Ed's material gathering problems..!
    Trev

    The Alton club was formed by the result of an ad. that I put in the
    town Newspaper. It invited folks to meet in a local hostillery. (Pub to 
    our USA friends).
    
    We had about a dozen folks show up and after several beers the club was 
    born. I took the usual ego trip of being member #1 and President and a 
    few other jobs. I left the club when I left the UK.
    
    The club only had three officers. Chairman (president), Sec. and treas.
    The rest of the committee was comprised of a representative from each
    interest group. E.G. Power, Gliders, Boats, Cars, Steam engines, Trains
    etc. Fair representation and all that. I remember club nights with
    indoor flight demos, cartwheel construction and "Beam" steam engine
    demos. Rich stuff with lots to borrow and add to my own modeling 
    techniques!. 
    
    The charter that I drew up said that we were a club that promoted ALL
    forms of model construction and operation. I still wonder if that
    charter survived?.
    
    I believe that I remember a Wheeler, thick set about 5' 6" dark hair and 
    glasses. He was into powered RC flying. I believe that I made him some 
    obeche covered wings one time?...
    
    Going home tonight..........bye for now.
    
    or Turrah!.
    
    E.
      

    E,
    	Yes Lee Wheeler became the chairman and is as you describe. The
    Club still supports all aspects as far as I know. I will see if I can
    find out more.
    Trev

    Here's an update on my Sparrow:
    
    It's completely together now, and I'm just waiting for warmer weather
    so I can use my garage to spray paint it. I'll be using regular 'ol
    Krylon paint, which gave pretty good results on the Falcon.
    
    My initial impressions of the kit haven't changed. The presheeted wings
    are top quality. The root was even beveled perfectly so I didn't have
    to sand in any dihedral, just cap it with balsa and glue the two halves
    together. The leading and trailing edge spruce should give the wings
    some extra strength, and help prevent leading edge dings.
    Unfortunately, a spruce spar leading edge that I glued to one my
    ailerons must have been warped, because now that aileron has a serious
    bend to it. I think I'll make a backup aileron out of normal trailing
    edge stock.
    
    The fuse did present some problems because they did a bad job of
    covering the seams inside. There were strips of fiberglass separating
    from the fuse, and the globs of glue made it impossible to get the wing
    bolt blocks mated properly to the fuse. Oh well, just use lots of
    epoxy. 
    
    I attached the V-tail first with epoxy and micro-balloons. It's a
    fairly solid joint, but I think it added quite a bit of weight. Next,
    the directions say reinforce by wrapping fiberglass around the bottom
    of the fuse, overlapping both halves of the V-tail. So, I mixed up my
    30 minute epoxy, wet out the fiberglass, started spreading epoxy on the
    fuse and V-tail... and noticed that the epoxy was kicking awful fast.
    Matter of fact, it's getting tacky already. So I look up at the epoxy
    bottles I used: aha, I grabbed 5 minute epoxy, not 30 minute!  Darn!
    I decided to go for it anyway, and worked feverishly to get the glass
    on and spread smooth before it became totally unmanagable. It actually
    worked out pretty well, except for a few spots where the glass is not
    in contact with the fuse. But..., boy is this thing tail heavy now! I
    don't think I'm going to make the suggested 21 ounces.
    
    I have white, blue, and red paint. Any suggestions for a color/pattern
    scheme?
    
    Dave
    
    PS: Hey, Jim, open that box and get cracking!
                                                 
    

Yeah, Dave... I've been meaning to open the box a third time 8^)

Once the foam cutter is under control, I'll have some time. (yeah, right)

>                     <<< Note 1261.226 by QUIVER::WALTER >>>
>                             -< Sparrow progress >-
...
>    I have white, blue, and red paint. Any suggestions for a color/pattern
>    scheme?

Yes - throw away the Red and White and just paint the whole thing Blue!

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Last night at the Charles River RC meeting, a guy named Dan Ross
    brought in his newly built NSP Sparrow. He covered the wings and tail
    with monokote, and the fuse is as yet uncovered. He ended up drilling
    eight 1.25" holes in the V tail to lighten it up so he wouldn't need a
    ton of lead in the nose. The result is a Sparrow that feels several
    ounces lighter than my own, which I painted.
    
    For its maiden flight, Dan took it with him on a trip to Michigan and
    brought it to a slope on the west coast of the state, looking out due
    west over Lake Michigan. He said as he approached the ridge above the
    beach, he spotted a sign that said "Going down this slope is easy;
    climbing back up is extremely fatiguing. It is a 60 degree slope of
    more than 400 feet." He said that with a 8 - 10 mph breeze, the plane
    climbed up 50 feet in seconds. He spent 45 minutes doing high speed
    passes 300 feet below him then climbing out over his head, aerobatics,
    the usual stuff. It sounded like an absolutely ideal slope site. 
    
    A park ranger came by and commented to Dan "That's really neat. What is
    it?" Evidently, no one has ever flown a glider there, and the ranger
    has been patrolling the area for many years! Gad, what a waste!
    
    Why don't WE get a site like that?
    
    Dave
    

    
         If we had a hill like that, maybe I could develop my
    "potential" glider pilot skills! :)

    It's time! I feel a slope session coming on!
    
    When I walked into the CRRC board meeting Tuesday, Dan Ross pulled me
    into the corner and said one word..."slope". He got the bug when he
    took his Sparrow to a cliff in Michigan this summer, and he's been
    dying to go down to the Cape. Fritz agreed, it's time, and suggested
    next weekend, Oct 8-9. I don't know if Helmut will be offering his
    house to put people up, but there's always the Sea Scape motor inn.
    I'm psyched. I only flew my Sparrow that one time earlier this summer,
    and I can't wait to get it into a stiff breeze. I might even bring the
    Spectrum... Lord knows, it's heavy enough to do some serious sloping!
    
    I'd like to go down Saturday morning, and maybe stay through Sunday
    (kind of depends on the weather). Anyone who wishes to caravan or car
    pool down to the Cape, send me a note.
    
    And don't forget to pay your wind bill.
    
    Dave
    

    From what I understand, this past weekends slope soaring session at the
    cape was rather interesting to say the least. Care to update us
    Dave????
    
    
    Steve

    Gee, who've you been talking to Steve? Either Eric or Jim.
    
    Yeah, we had a little incident on the Cape. And frequency control (or
    the lack of it) was at the heart of the problem. We did end up at the
    Seascape hotel with southwest winds hitting the hill almost dead on.
    Besides Jim, Eric, and I, there were 5 others from the Charles River
    club that joined us, and when we showed up at the motel, we found
    another 5 or 6 pilots who had already checked in and were flying. With
    that many flyers, we really should have set up some kind of frequency
    board. Instead, we just polled everyone on the slope before turning on.
    
    At one point, I was flying an Anabat on Ch. 34 when we were all asked
    to land briefly to allow a hang glider to take off. I landed, watched
    him fly off and eventually land on the beach below us, then I turned on
    again. (This is where I should have again checked channel usage). 
    Apparently, the other guy with Ch.34 turned on at about the same
    time and threw his plane over the edge. He lost control almost
    immediately. He had some sort of sloper that appeared to have a plastic
    fuse. Not light. By the poorest luck imaginable, the plane evidently
    went screaming right into the Doppler brothers, Bob and Paul, one of
    whom was operating a video camera. BOTH of them were hit in the head.
    Bob ended up with 8 stitches in his ear, Paul had a major welt on his
    temple. I think Jim Reith could give a better description of what
    happened; he was watching the guy launch, I was flying my own plane at
    the time and didn't really know for sure what happened until I landed
    and went over to investigate the commotion.
    
    I felt really bad for the Dopplers, and I was shook up enough that I
    didn't want to continue flying. It was an awful way to end a really
    superb day of sloping. The conditions were just about ideal. Jim was
    having a ball with his Sparrow (built in 11 hours), and Eric hadn't
    flown slope in many years and actually seemed to be enjoying himself
    flying a glider!
    
    My biggest worry now is that the Motel owner will reconsider the
    practice of flying on his grounds. He knows there won't be any problems
    from the Doppler's, but I imagine a whole lot of "what if's" are
    circling around in his head right now.
    
    Dave
    

    It is interesting that two pattern flyers Eric and Todd Sheehan from
    my club both flew slope on the same day.  Todd, an accomplished pattern
    flyer, just completed his first slope ship - Hobby Shack Super Ridge
    Runt and flew it for the first time, yesterday.  He was so excited
    when he told me about it.  He definitely is hooked.  His enthusiasm
    has reignited my interest, so I am going to try to adapt the 65"
    RG15 wing from one of my electrics to a WACO 550 fuselage I have lying
    around.

    Eric started his career in RC flying slope in England. You should see
    some of the pictures. Now THAT'S what I call slope flying. Probably the
    only reason he doesn't do much around here is the lack of slope sites.
    
    Before he left DEC, he would regularly fly slope out in California on
    "business" trips.
    
    I was interested to hear if his EVL ways were brought to the cape.

    Eric had a ball at the Cape and so did I. I did see the incident in
    question since I was talking to the guy as he set up to launch. The
    plane got about 20 feet away and locked up and went straight down the
    slope and nailed the brothers. There wasn't time to yell or react. It
    really blindsided them.
    
    I got a 44 minute maiden flight on my Sparrow which included the first
    of three mid-airs I had. I was doing aerobatics with it right away and
    it flew GREAT. My biggest problem (which I didn't figure out until the
    end of the day) was doing rolls and giving down elevator compensation
    with the flaperons enabled. The down flap cancelled one aileron
    deflection and increased the other, making the plane yaw around the
    deflected wing and get out of shape. This caused me to get behind the
    ridge a few times. My mid-air was with another Sparrow and I took a
    notch out of his wingtip and came away with some paint and a piece of
    his tip balsa stuck into the wing. The next mid-air was with Dennis
    Phalen and he flew THROUGH my Ninja, shearing off a wing. VERY
    impressive and we both laughed and shook hands. I had spent a few
    minutes hovering it so Eric could try "docking" with it (not the term
    HE used 8^). I had to put almost a pound into it to get it to fly well
    (the Sparrow flew unballasted all day). The last mid-air was at the end
    of the day when Eric and I were making passes up and down the slope
    together. His old slope racers were competitive with the new ships. In
    one opposing pass you heard "snick" and something fell away. I was
    still flying so I said "sorry" to Eric... He didn't understand since he
    was still flying as well but upon closer inspection, his fin was
    sheared completely off. He flew the plane for another 10 minutes before
    figuring out how/where to land. I went back to the car to recharge and
    the hang glider launched. We were about to restart flying when the
    accident happened. It was REAL scary the way the bump popped up on the
    guy's head. Dave told me the ear took 8 stitches.
    
    I'l be heading down for the weekend of the 21st/22nd and renting a room
    at the Seascape if anyone is interested. My wife will be down with me
    which is a story unto itself... The NSP guys are going down this
    thursday for the annual slope session. I'll be trying out a bunch of
    Anabat type planes that weekend so there's a feww one to anyone that
    wants to fly and give me comments on them. I'm probably going to offer
    them as kits real cheap in the future.
    
    Great week of vacation. I flew and busted more planes in a week than I
    had all season. The cap of the week was finding a site 10 minutes from
    my house, last night, that allows both power and gliders and has a
    landfill, gravel pit and highway as the nearest neighbors! If I find a
    slope on the site (I think there might be a face that coule be used)
    I'll be in heaven.

>>    Anabat type planes that weekend so there's a feww one to anyone that
                                                   ^^^^


  A true business man....just can't bring himself to say "free"!!   :^)



                 Jim

    Free! Free! (opinions are always FREE! 8^)
    
    It's tough typing with ten thumbs... Give me a break...
    
    I'll be making about a dozen up and if people want to try one, they can
    have one. I need some feedback to see if I should bother.
    
    Jim

I was inquiring recommendations for a slope sailplane. After examination
of my Divine Wind lead to no result _WHY_ it didn't like to fly, but 
nonetheless it does not fly, i was looking for something similar: cheap, 
easy to build & repair, good sloper. I got two recommendations, one for the
Sig Ninja, the other for the Spirit. The first recommendation is from
David Garwo, known author of MAN:


The Sig NINJA is a "must have" slope soaring sailplane for me.  It's
easy to build and it flys so well, that even when one gets too beat up
to repair, I build another.  I got my 2 hour LSF slope flight with the
NINJA, and learned to fly inverted with it.  My 14 year old son learned
rolls with his NINJA.

The NINJA has a foam core wing, Eppler 374 airfoil, covered with 1/16
inch (2 mm) balsa.  The most serious problem with the kit is the fuselage
is made of what we call "light ply."  This is 1/8 in (4 mm) 3-ply plywood
made from poplar wood.  It die cuts well but does not crash gracefully -
it crumbles rather that splitting like balsa, so it's tougher to repair.

This is not a major problem, or a reason to avoid the kit.  The wing
lasts longer than the fuselage, so just make another fuselage out of 
1/16 (2mm) spruce plywood, or out of 1/4 (7mm) balsa and big triangle
stock and sand it round; either method is better than the original.

I have no hesitation on recommending the NINJA on flight performance.  The
kit hardware quality is below average, but not horrible, and the fuse may
not last as long as a balsa fuse, but it's not expensive either.  It's
a good sailplane, Joe.  I reviewed the model in the June 1991 issue of
Model Airplane News.


The second recommendation is from our old friend Mark Antry:

From:	VBORMC::"[email protected]" "He's dead Jim...You grab his
wallet, I'll get his tricorder!"

As far as recomending a good slopeplane.  I think if you build a Spirit or 
Spirit 100 and built it with the thiner airfoil(I think give you two) and also 
built it as an aileron version it would be a good airfoil for both your slope 
needs and any thermal flying that you want to do.  The Spirit 100 would be 
better although a little bit bigger.  Remember you can fly any plane off the 
slope you want.  If it is a high drag floater then you may have to put some 
ballast in it to up the wing loading.  I have flown my gentle lady off of the 
slope with 40 mph winds, I had about 8-10 oz. of weight in it but I had a blast!

I don't know why someone would say that the spirit 100 wouldn't stand up to the 
hard landings.  It wouldn't be much different than any other wood plane. If you
want, lay a light layer of fiberglass over the entire fuse, but you'll be adding
weight.  I would also put some of spoiler or flap on the plane.  That will help 
with landings.  Maybe go with spoilers and flaps.  Spoilers for loosing lift and
flaps for landing.  I really like the Spirit series.  They are easy builders, 
offer you many options (2 dif airfoils, poly-hedreal wing or di-hedreal wing), 
spoilers and/or flaps, two piece wing for easy transport (really pay attention 
building the wing joiner/spar box, I had a friends fold the wing on the second 
flight because he didn't build this area properly.

I guess again, I would recomend the Spirit or Spirit 100, I think you would like
to plane and it would be easy to fly and also give you a plane you would be 
happy with on the slope as you get better slope flying.  Build it with ailerons 
though.

If you would post my new info in the notes file I would appreciate it.  I don't 
have any old DEC'ies address around.

Mark Antry
Still working for the goverment, still wish I was back at DEC
[email protected]   from easynet decwrl::"[email protected]"
(801)831-5441 (work)

    Here's my strategy when I go sloping: Bring a light plane, relatively
    small (like 2M or smaller) that you feel very comfortable flying. Bring
    a straight wing moderate speed sloper that needs a decent hill and
    windspeed to really fly it right. And bring your hottest high-tech
    thermal soaring monster (this will stay in your car all day because you
    don't dare put it on the slope).
    
    I use my handlaunch Predator as my light plane. It's perfect for
    testing a new site, it'll fly on the smallest slope, in the lightest
    wind, and it's nimble enough to land almost anywhere. You could also
    use a Gentle Lady or Spirit to fill this role, although they are a bit
    more ponderous.
    
    The slope soarer is for REALLY flying the slope. I can fly in pretty
    stiff winds with the Predator, but it can't possibly keep up with the
    slick straightwing models. The Sparrow I picked up this summer is ideal
    for moderate winds. Everyone I know who has one loves it. Fly's like
    it's on rails, and really slices through the wind. I don't think a
    Ninja will have the same speed and grace as a Sparrow, but the Ninja
    should be more maneuverable (smaller wingspan) and it definitely costs
    less. If you want a cheap, nimble little sloper, try a Talon. They fly
    surpisingly well. I think the kit is only $30 or so.
    
    Just one opinion.
    
    Dave
    

    
    Joe,
    
    My opinion on which glider to choose would be based on the slope
    you intend to fly it on.  The slopes in California allow a very broad
    range of gliders to be flown, especially the hot rods.  The slopes I fly
    on in New York generally will not support the California style pivot
    wing ships and the heavy, thin winged racers.
    
    For slope soaring in general, I recommend sheeted wings otherwise you
    will be patching holes in the covering after every flying session.
    V-tails are in vogue, and seem less prone to landing damage.
    
    The Ninja seems like a good choice if you have a fairly steep slope
    with wind 10+ mph.  I own an NSP Sparrow and have been very pleased
    with it.  It will fly in lighter wind than the Ninja and looks way
    cooler, plus it is quite aerobatic.
    
    The Robbe Arcus would make a very nice slope ship, much smoother and 
    more refined than either the Sparrow or the Ninja.  The Graupner Cherry
    alos comes to mind.
    
    Overall I would recommend the biggest ship you can transport with RG15
    or similar airfoil.  The longer wings/aspect ratio will allow flying in
    a much broader range of conditions.  If you will fly in higher winds
    the smaller 60 inch ships will probably work OK.
    
    Joe- what is your intended application for this ship?  Speed,
    aerobatics, light wind soaring ability, amount of money you wish to
    spend, etc. Knowing this will narrow down the choices considerably.
    
    Best regards,
    
    Jim  
        

I agree with Dave other than I didn't set up my light plane. I started the day
with the Sparrow and flew it 98% of the time. The other 2% was flying my Ninja
which was marginal (compared to the Sparrow) and ended up getting cut in half in
"traffic". The only problem I see with the Sparrow is that it doesn't hold a big
enough battery so I only got about an hour per 270mah pack. I had a 1000mah pack
in the ninja and was going to try for my 2 hour LSF flight when it got cut in
half. The Predator or Chup would be good planes for light conditions. I think
the important point Dave makes is to fly something you're comfortable with
initially. It's tough when you're trying a new slope with a plane you have to
work to fly. I instantly fell in love with my Sparrow (right from the 44 minute
maiden flight) and it felt comfortable right from the start. Dave has an
impression of the Predator in his hand and can fly it with his eyes closed (and
thermal out). There are a lot of different opinions about "light lift". Out here
where slope sites are scarce, light lift means that you're flying HLGs on a
slant... some places consider it light lift if you have to fly unballasted!

My recommendation for an affordable sloper is a straight wing Chup with
ailerons. I think the Ninja is to clunky for a good general purpose sloper. I'm
sold on the Sparrow in any case and with the lack of ballast, it'll fly down
into the HLG range of conditions. My other suggestion is to get a reasonable
field charger and/or lots of packs. You don't want to be on the ground when you
find a good slope with good conditions. I have a Talon kit and will build it at
some point. I'm still looking for a small ship that can be packed in a suitcase
and brought along on trips. A two piece wing Chup with a servo in each wing and
removable stabs might be the answer.

>some point. I'm still looking for a small ship that can be packed in a suitcase
>and brought along on trips. A two piece wing Chup with a servo in each wing and
>removable stabs might be the answer.

My Pivot Plus packs pretty small.  A little known fact is that the tail
comes off with one screw and the completed kit fits in the box it was
shipped in.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

>A little known fact

I didn't know that 8^)

    Course it's not supposed to.............

    We are actively slope soaring here in upstate N.Y.  Our resident
    hot-shot pattern flyer wanted to try it after reading accounts of slope
    soaring at the World Soaring Jamboree in MA.  
    
    He built a 50" E374 Super Ridge Runt and was pretty excited with how it
    flew.  Wanting to build his own design, I cut him a set of 62" RG15
    cores.  The maiden flight of this ship was on Sunday and lasted for
    1 hour and 20 minutes!  It was landed only to check the batteries. 
    Todd was very excited as he was able to do consecutive rolls, inverted,
    outside loops, immelmans, etc.  Another staunch power flyer who
    witnessed the flight immediately requested a set of cores!
    
    The simplicity of throwing a completely assembled 60" glider in your
    car and toosing off the hill is apparently more attractive than the
    hassles associated with power flying in the winter.  The aerobatic
    capability of theses gliders really surprised these guys.
    
    So even cold weather can't quell "slope fever".  Once you try it your
    hooked.
    
    I am anxious to see how Todd's design stacks up against the NSP
    Sparrow.  Mine should be flyable after this weekend.
    

You'll love the Sparrow (I love mine) but I'll be interested in hearing about
the comparison and maybe some design specs to try something similar if it's
"hotter". I wasn't impressed with the roll rate on the 60" Sparrow.

    re: -1
    
    Jim,
    
       I'll let you know how the two designs compare.  Todd's glider
    reflects his power background.  He asked me for an airfoil
    recommendation, and I though RG15 in a 60-65" would provide better
    light air performance and penetration than the E374 on his Runt.
    I also had templates for this airfoil from a previous electric I had
    built, so cutting the cores was relatively easy.
    
    He proceeded to bastardize the RG15 cores I cut by sheeting them with
    3/32" balsa(standard pattern construction).  The wing is thicker and
    lacks the undercamber in the aft portion of the airfoil when compared
    to my obechi sheeted wing of the same span.  The wing has no dihedral,
    squared off tips, and is flown with the CG at 50% of the MAC!  The
    cruciform  elevator is huge, at least 4 times the area of the
    Sparrow's.
    
    I think the great roll rate of Todd's plane has a lot to do with the CG
    being set at 50%, along with the 0 dihedral wing.
    
    The wing is definetely no longer RG15 profiled.  But from the sounds of
    it he was delighted with the performance.  I can't wait to see it fly!
    I love experimenting with new designs(esprecially when I don't have to
    build them!).
    
    BTW- the day Todd flewthis plane, it was blowing a gale(20 mph).  I am
    psyched to fly the Sparrow again.
    
     

Can you fly that sparrow as a thermal ship? i.e. high start it, and
winch it? Or is it strictly a slope ship?

Dave

     

    Dave,
    
        I have flown my Sparrow in light slope conditions and it requires
    a lot of attention to keep it flying.  It is my opinion that the
    Sparrow would be a difficult ship to thermal from a high start.
    
    Regards,
    
    Jim

Tere's two versions of the Sparrow wing. The stock 60" wing would be tough to
thermal too much. I do have two servos in the wings and a flaperon program
enabled but I wouldn't expect much luck. There's also a 70" wing available that
some of the people at the Seascape were using that might have better thermal
capability. I tried my Alcyone 2M when the slope conditions got light and was
most unimpressed so I really believe you need specialized ships for better than
average performance. The Alcyone couldn't turn without losing most of it's lift
inthe turn. There's nothing to stop you from putting a 2M thermal wing onto the
Sparrow fuselage and flying thermal in that configuration but I don't think the
stock configurations will be very satisfying thermal soaring.

Jim

Dave Walter and I headed down the Cape this weekend with a group of CRRC guys
and flew at Wellfleet. The wind on saturday was from the east and started off
at about20 with gusts to 25mph. We shared the slope with 8-10 hang gliders and
a couple of parasailers as the day progressed. We had a few frequency
conflicts but my channel was clear so I flew a three battery pack rotation and
kept the Sparrow going for a total of 3+ hours of flight time. People started
heading home about 3:30 and Dave and I headed back to the Seascape (where I
was staying over) about 4:30. Saturday's flying was pretty uneventful except
for one guy that clipped his own car in the parking lot and smashed a vintage
Oly-II. I tried flying my Predator at one point but it just wasn't the same so
I put that battery into the Sparrow as well.

I was the only one that stayed overnight so I headed back to the same location
sunday about noon and the wind was more quartering from the north and had
dropped to 10-15mph. I could have found a better facing slope but the kids
were in swimming (brrrr) so I contented myself with having the slope to
myself. The guy from Springfield with the Soar-Ace stopped by and joined me
and we had a good time. Headed out about 2:30 for lunch and the trip home VERY
relaxed.

Jim