Conference vmszoo::rc

    Tom,
    
    Nice topic!  I must agree with you on flying well.  I just had my
    3rd flight and have already formed an opinion on where I want to
    go with my flying skills (did I say skill, Heck I'm just tryin'
    to stay in the air).  I have already decided on the SIG KOUGAR or
    KING KOBRA.  Any comments on this choice of aircraft, yes I will
    learn to fly my trainer well before I attempt this daring feat.
    
    Chris Spohr

    Well Chris, I think you had better be able to fly the pants off
    of your trainer before attempting to fly one of these birds. If
    your mind is made up I would suggest one modification to both
    ships. The Kougar and King Kobra both run a solid elevator with
    rudder above the stab. I suggest hat when you build this ship you
    move the vertical stab back to the elevator hinge line and then
    split the elevator and run a full rudder from the bottom of the
    fuse to the top of the vertical stab. This mod. will improve the 
    planes ability to fly on it's side and improve the stall turns.
    One other note would be to mount the engine on it's side as apposed
    to the 45 degree angle that they show.  This will allow you to install
    a pipe at a later date. Finally install the most power you can and
    keep the ship light.
    
    					Tom
    
    P.S. stay away from retracts
    
    

    To continue on the line of Chris's thought what really make a good
    entry level pattern bird.  To start I think we need to look at what
    will be asked of this first pattern bird. 
    
    The plane will be a (pattern) trainer.
    It must loop/roll track well.
    It must fly straight.
    It must stall turn well.
    It must land/take off well.
    
    Nowhere in the rules does it state a minimum size of ship or engine.
    
    
    	I have found that adherence to a few simple rules can make the
    difference from being in the running and on the outside looking
    in.
    	The first of which is "BUILD STRAIGHT". Not enough can be said
    for this. A straight trainer type aircraft will fly the pants off
    of a bent pattern bird.
    	The second is "BUILD LIGHT". A light sleak ship will penetrate
    the wing as good as a heavy ship yet will be much less of a tiger
    to land than the heavy ship.
    	The third is "KISS"= "KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID" Complexity in the
    beginning stages only causes ulcers.
    	The fourth and final is "HORSEPOWER". A throttle can only go
    so far forward. It can always go backwards.
    
    
    	At eveny contest I have attended I have seen what should be
    winning designs in the novice pattern event yet they aren't even
    in contention. The problems are two fold. One being that the ships
    were often underpowered for the size of the manuavers that were
    being flown. Secondly there was a definately lack of stick time
    demonstrated by the pilots.
    
    	Any sport/pattern low winger can be successful in novice given
    that it prescribes to my four rules. Designs that come to mind are
    the SIG KOUGAR,KING KOBRA, Great Planes SUPERSPORTSTER 40 or 60,
    Balsa USA SMOOTHIE or MOONRAKER, Johnie Casburne LUCKYFLY 40 or
    60.  The list goes on and on. If the documentation for the plane
    indicates that it will take a 40-45 size engine install at a minimum
    the .45 sized engine. The engine is one place that you cannot be
    budget poor. If the design is 56 inches or larger and can fit a
    .60 sized engine then that's what needs to be installed. The radio
    need to be a good quality unit. Realize that I said Good not great.
    You don't need a Futaba PCM. What you need is a reliable unit.
    
    						Tom

    Tom,
    
    I definitley will not try anything until I can "Fly the pants off"
    of my trainer.  In talking to my instructor, he said "most people
    fail because they try to force themselves to learn at too fast a
    pace".  My instructor believes in K.I.S.S. training.  Right now
    I am only allowed to do left hand ovals, when I do them picture
    perfect I can move onto right hand ovals.  I believe this approach
    will actually make a better flyer of me sooner than if I tryed every
    thing I thought I could do.
    
    As far as Pattern Flying, I plan to build now and fly later (much!)
    B.T.W., A guy had a Kougar with a .60 in it last night that was,           
    to quote a valley girl, "Totally Awesome!"
    
                                                          
    L8R,
    Chris Spohr
    

>    	Any sport/pattern low winger can be successful in novice given
>    that it prescribes to my four rules. Designs that come to mind are
>    the SIG KOUGAR,KING KOBRA, Great Planes SUPERSPORTSTER 40 or 60,
>    Balsa USA SMOOTHIE or MOONRAKER, Johnie Casburne LUCKYFLY 40 or
>    60.  The list goes on and on. If the documentation for the plane

But Tom - in a previous note you didn't like the rudder on the Kougar
and King Kobra.

I guess some time this winter I want to build a pattern ship.
I'm open to ideas as to which one.  I don't want to have to deviate
from the planes as per your suggestion on the SIG kits.
So which ones do you suggest that don't need any mods and build straight
and can take a beating!

              _!_      
Bye        ----O----   
Kay R. Fisher / \     

================================================================================

To put pattern flying into some perspective you should also know the negatives
of the activity. I speak only from experience in FAI aerobatics, however at
least some of the comments must hold good for any Aerobatic event. I saw the 85
Nats in Chicopee so I know they do at least in the USA. 

1. Aerobatics is a subjectively judged event unlike glider and Pylon where the 
Judge is the stopwatch. As such it is open to the "Halo Effect" off the "Known" 
Pilots scoring better than the up coming champions. What may appear a 
contradiction to the above is when a "Name" flier wins the grumbling's from the 
back bench say he only won by the "halo effect". YOU CAN'T WIN. Not until we 
have a tracking radar with computer control and scoring will this problem be 
over come.

2. It's a bore to watch. Every body does the same thing in every round. You've
seen one; you've seen them all. 

3. Its a bore to practice for reasons as in 2.

4. It is stifled by bureaucratic meddling. The seemingly annual rule changes
(ie. 1st Jan 88 another change comes into effect) serve to upset the continuity
of competition. (May be they need the changes to over come the boredom). I met
the FAI Sub-Committee chairman during the 1985 Nats, he was the most self
opinionated obnoxious individual I have ever had the miss fortune to meet in
Aeromodelling, totally out of character with everybody else I met at the
Nats. His attitudes must obviously influence the running of the Subcommittee.

5. The noise ruling in FAI means little. At World Championships it is 
blatantly violated yet at small contests it may be enforced. Q! where do you 
stand?. Also on the noise readings; one day your model can be legal, the next 
day without any change to the configuration it can fail. The position of a car 
or spectator, the density of the air, the engine performance differences caused 
by temperature, humidity or altitude change, and the moisture content of the 
grass on the day/time can all change the reading by several db.

I concede that Aerobatics is a good training ground for teaching the discipline
of flying, it serves well as an introduction to the stresses of competition.
The models are easy to fly, they track well and are stable. It is a way to 
start competition flying. 

Go for it Guy's; I must have lit a few flames out there, don't disappoint me.

John.

    Kay,
    
    	It really depends on what you have to spend.  If money is no
    object then I would suggest one of the FK Models (sold through
    Mutchler's)brand of 40-45 sized pattern ship. They are a fiberglass
    fuse with presheeted foam wings. They build straight and fly well.
    On the other hand the Great Planes Super Kaos .40/.60 are also
    excellent. However I don't like their building technique on the
    fuse. One excellent ship is the Jonny Casburne Lucky Fly .40/.60.
    They feature a jig built balsa fuse with a presheeted foam wing.
    If your hot to get into the air the Royal Telstar .40 with a .60
    sized engine is one way to go. the Ideal formula is;
    
    	56 - 62" wing span semetrical or semisemetrical airfoil.
    	Fixed gear
    	Built straight.
    
    The more building you have to do in the kit the more potential you
    have of not building it straight.
    
    	I particularly don't care for the Kougar. Most one's that I've
    flown aren't "Smooth". "Smooth" is something difficult to describe.
    
    	The Kougar was designed for sport flying not pattern. The change
    in rudder position helps the plane. I guess we're getting to the
    bottom line. 
    
    If I had to suggest a way to go that was moderate in
    price I would go with a Johnny Casburne Lucky Fly .40 with a
    COMO .51 or Supertiger .45 or a Picco .45 engine.
    
    If you can spend the money then I would suggest an FK Skyleader
    with the above listed engines or the FK Jetstar with a .60.
    
    If time is short then go with a Telstar .40 with a .60 or the
    Telstar 25 with a hot .40 in it.
    
    Other than the Kougar what has your heart on fire?
    
    
    						Tom
    
    
    
    
    
    To comment or Mr Chadd's reply. What you say about subjectiveness
    of judges is true at the large contests. Not representative of the
    local/regional events.  As far a FAI goes these guys have a long
    way to go before they are subject to these rules.  Noise, I think
    it's a good thing to check for. Even if they haven't got all the
    bugs out. It's a start. (Noise is only checked at the FAI level
    of competition). As far as your inpression of the subcommittee
    chairman, well I don't know the gentleman. As far as him being
    opinionated well you know what they say about opinion!
    
    
    							Tom 

    
    From the limited replies to this note I am getting the feeling that
    at least a couple of flyers are interested in getting into this
    phase of the hobby or at a minimum flying these type of planes.
    
    One comment I haven't responded to yet but feel must be addressed
    is that a pattern ship is "easy" to fly.  I must disagree with this.
    For most of the RC public they are quite a bit to handle. I think
    however that i understand what prompted the statement. If I may
    I would reword the statement to say that they "fly true". You see
    to me to say that something flies easy means that a limited skill
    is required. With a pattern ship this is far from the truth. To
    say however that they fly "TRUE" means that they are very precise
    in their ability to stay on heading and they respond to control
    inputs correctly with no or minimal adverse effects. This is what
    I think was implied. You see, when you have progressed past the
    learners stage of this game you will understand exactly what each
    control input should do to the plane. With trainers they are designed
    to help the student by flying themselves.  With a pattern bird the
    ship does only what you tell it. No more no less. Put it in a one
    degree decending angle and it will stay that way until it hits
    something.bank the wings 30 degrees and it will fly the entire length
    of the field that way. Most do this even in moderate wind.
    
    					Tom
    
    I'll continue at a later time.

Re:.9

>    One comment I haven't responded to yet but feel must be addressed
>    is that a pattern ship is "easy" to fly.  I must disagree with this.
>    For most of the RC public they are quite a bit to handle. I think
>    however that i understand what prompted the statement. If I may
>    I would reword the statement to say that they "fly true". You see
>    to me to say that something flies easy means that a limited skill
>    is required. With a pattern ship this is far from the truth. To
    
Easy is a relative term, to suggest that a person would enter competition with
a high wing trainer is absurd. The text in question was referring to
competition flying so I stick by the statement that Aerobatic models are easy
to fly in comparison to other competition aircraft. 

re:.7    
    
>    To comment or Mr Chadd's reply. What you say about subjectiveness
>    of judges is true at the large contests. Not representative of the
>    local/regional events.  

Getting a bit formal a Tom!. Unless you have some infallible machine to do the
judging I don't see your point. Aerobatic judging is subjective in all cases as
the performance is scored by a judge on the basis of his PERCEPTION of
perfection compared to the competitors performance. 

>    Noise, I think
>    it's a good thing to check for. Even if they haven't got all the
>    bugs out. It's a start. (Noise is only checked at the FAI level
>    of competition). 

If the jobs worth doing do it properly. The half harted piece meal procedure 
presently adopted by the FAI is ludicrous. I believe it is the Jan 1 rules 
change that gives bonus points to a competitor if the judge thinks the model is 
quiet. C'mon is this what our sport is all about.

>    As far as your inpression of the subcommittee
>    chairman, well I don't know the gentleman. As far as him being
>    opinionated well you know what they say about opinion!
    
                        No; tell me.

    
    	Good John,  If you author a note on this subject I'm willing
    to give you my inputs.......:-)
     					OK??
    
    
    					Tom,(thanks)

    Getting back to the subject matter, I think that a novice's selection
    on what to fly in pattern is colored by the higher level pattern
    flyers. Typically the equipment that a novice ends up with is more
    than what was required to get into pattern competition. Hence I
    want to caution all those would be pattern flyers that you probably
    have some if not all of what you need right now. Lets look at what
    will be asked of you.
    
    The novice pattern si designed to show the judges if you know how
    to fly. By that I mean that it will demonstrate if you have full
    control over your plane at all times, know what control inputs to
    input to correct deviations and most importantly; it will show them
    if your familiar with your plane. The pattern is as follows;
    
    	1, Takeoff
    	2, Straight Flighth In
    	3, Procedure Turn
    	4, Straight Flight Out
    	5, Stall Turn
    	6, Emmelman(sp)
    	7, Three Inside Loops
    	8, One Horizontal Roll
    	9, Landing
    
    
    	These are the manuavers that you will be judged on. In the future
    I'll go into each one, one at a time(per AMA Rules Book). When you
    get to the contest the director will ask you to fill out an entry
    form. This will ask what pattern class you are entering, name, date,
    AMA number, Frequency, ect.(weather you beleave in God :-) not really)
    At this time they will probably tell you how many judges forms you
    will need for a flight. By this I mean that your are responsible
    to give the judges score cards each time (round) that you fly. Best
    thing here is to grab 18 copies on the novice score cards. Usually
    there are three judges scoring a flighth and through the course
    of a contest you will usually fly six rounds. This way you don't
    have to keep going back and forth to the entry table. Fill out these
    forms NOW, that way your ready. They usually ask your class(NOVICE)
    name, and frequency.
    	Boy, now that we're signed in the next thing to do is to get
    ready. SET UP CAMP. It's a good idea to bring some kind of dinning
    fli, (tent with no walls) to protect you from the elements. Pick
    out a spot and set up. Unload the car, plane flight box fuel
    ect,ect,ect.Take your radio to the impound and then return and put
    your plane together. It's also a good idea to bring a white large
    towl or something to cover the plane. The sun can really cook
    batteries.  Now that all the bull shit is done you can get ready
    for the contest. sit down and relay for a few minutes. Have a coffee.
    	Now that we're calmed down and the blood pressure is below 200
    it's time to start looking for a helper. At this point in the day
    quite a few people will have there stuff out so go take a walk and
    see what in the future for you. the planes will probably all be
    bigger, prettier and in the air faster than your but don't worry
    you're not competing against them. Strike up a conversation with
    anyone you can. Tell them that this is your first contest. When
    you find someone that is in a higher class than you and they seem
    friendly enough ask if they'll "call" for you.  they may be flying
    at the same time as you but on a different flight line so be prepared
    to ask more than one. BUT DO HAVE A CALLER WHEN IT"S YOUR TIME TO
    FLY. Most flyers are more than willing to help.
    	Well your all set now, wait for the pilots meeting and listen
    up!
    	I think I should tell you what a caller does. He/she will tell
    you ahead ou time what is your next manuaver. You then will outloud
    tell the judges so that they can get a picture on the manuaver in
    their minds and be ready for your presentation. The caller is also
    your pit person. They will carry your plane out to the runway for
    you so you can take off the plane.
    
    	We have so much more to talk about, I'll be on vacation as of
    3:00 EST today so keep the questions comming. I'll get to them today
    if possible and when I get back. I'll be gone for two weeks. If
    anyone has anything that can't wait call me at home (413)732-9713
    as for Tom T. (there's two toms in the house).
    
    
    						Tom

  
  re .6	

       Nice one John. They say the truth hurts......

  re -.lots

		Aawww sodit, missed a good row here. I s'pose 
	it's too late to put my tuppence worth in....
       


	bob

    Can any one explain the difference between AMA, FAI and turn around
    pattern, or isn't there any difference.  The novice pattern has
    just been described by Tom, should one start at the novice level
    or isn't there enough participation in that class?  Other than looking
    in the contest section of the AMA mag, where can one find out a
    schedule of pattern meets.  There must be more than whats listed
    in the AMA mag.

    Hello, back from vacation.
    
    
    Well to answer the last question...........
    
    FAI and Turnaround are the same thing. AMA is the older style of
    pattern flying. A little history is in order.
    
    The present AMA patterns used to be practiced through out the
    world. FAI is the world governing body. A few years ago the
    FAI began to trend towards a style of pattern flying that was
    in line with full scale aerobatic flying. There were many reasons
    for this, noise being only one. Most of the world has to date
    followed suit and adopted this style of flying.
    The re are one main differences between FAI and AMA style pattern.
    One being that in FAI once the plane is airborne and begins it's
    first manuaver the entire flight is judged. The FAI style of
    pattern makes the turns at either end judged manuavers. In AMA
    the turns at the ends are not judged. Hence the name"Turnaround"
    pattern. Turnaround is like figure skating. Once the routine starts
    it's judged from begining to end. AMA pattern would be like only
    looking at the spins and jumps of figure skating and not judging
    the skating that happens between.
    If you look at the FAI pattern schedule in the book you will notice
    that it's pretty intence. Other countries have adopted easier schedules
    for less advanced flyers. IE, in canada there is three classes.
    The top of course follows the FAI schedule. The middle flies a
    continious pattern like the top flyers but the schedule is easier.
    The lowest class flies an ammended AMA/FAI schedule. By this I mean
    that the fly into the prescribed box. Do the manuaver, do a turn
    and then fly out of the box. The flying that was in the box is
    judged. This makes the pattern less stressful to fly and gives the
    beginner in pattern a change to regain his/her composure.
    
    Now you must be asking why doesn't the US fly this way. I'll cover
    that later.
    
    As far as events go, what I've found is that once you go to one
    you hear about all the unlisted events.
    
    						Tom

    Well it's later so I guess I'll give you what I see as the reasons
    why the US has yet to adopt the FAI style of flying. From what I
    can gather when the new FAI rules were encated they met with a great
    deal of opposition from Masters grade flyers in some parts of the
    counter. Most the west coast from what I've heard. These flyers
    like the present AMA form of flying and hence don't want to change.
    AMA faced with this problem adopted a new class "FAI". In this way
    they hoped to give the new FAI style some exposure and still allow
    a competition forum for those that wished to persue world class
    competition.  If one were to look at the entries into pattern contests
    by geographic sections you would see that the "Masters" class has
    seen a decrease in the US except for the west coast. This has lead
    to an increase in flyer flying the FAI style of pattern. 
    	I for one would like to see some for of pattern class development
    that allowed for and prepared one for a "top" level of pattern class.
    If this top level be FAI than so be it. Unfortunately what will
    probably happen due to politics is that a totally seperate pattern
    styled event will be added to the AMA having multiple classes of
    FAI pattern and a second event for AMA style. The hope being that
    eventually the AMA pattern loosing participation. This is my own
    opinion of what will happen and has not been substanciated. I say
    this because in most political forums logic is thrown to the wind.
    Oh well that for the politician to determine. I have to focus on
    practicing the present pattern.
    
    						Tom

    Anyone reading PATTERN???
    
    Whats happened to this discussion? I'm just a "dumb-thumbs" (thanks
    Al - I LOVE the description and thought it applied to me!!) and
    probably will never have the skill/determination to fly pattern
    correctly, but there must be lots of hints and tips the pattern guys
    take for granted (both building and flying) which would be really
    useful to us lesser mortals.
    
    *	What do you (the pattern flyer) consider when designing a new
    	ship?
    
    *	What areas (ratios) for the flying surfaces do you use?
    
    *	How critical are the incidences (wing/tail/engine) and what are
    	the best to use?
    
    *	How do you trim that brand new model?
    
    *	What radio gear do you consider necessary to fly competetively?
        (ie what functions are considered essential?)
    
    I may be out of line here and addressing my beginners question to
    the wrong forum. If so, I'll ask elsewhere.
    
    Details, details, details!!
    
    Ta ta,
    
    Keith.

    AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH a breath of fresh air.
    Finally a responce... Thank You Keith in advance. 
    
    
    1, Most pattern guys don't design their own ships. That is until
    they reach the top classes and feel that the designs available
    aren't what they are looking for. There are however a few that do
    design at all levels.  
    
    	A rule of thumb for Novice,Sportsman and Advanced pattern flyers
    is that any solid pattern design has the capability of winning.
    It's the flyer and what he puts into it that is in most cases the
    deciding factor.
    	As one starts you look to see what manuavers you'll be flying
    in your particular class and tailor your choise of ship accordingly.
    Some ships roll and loop better than others. As an example for a
    flyer in novice or sportsman there are no extended manuavers that
    require knife edge flyght so you may choose a design that loops
    and rolls well but doesn't have exceptional knife edge qualities.
    
    
    3, As an example to answer your question on incedence; lets assume
    that you drive a front wheel car. How do you think the car would
    perform if: the transaxle were 10degree off,one front wheel were
    toed in and the other toed out and the rear wheel both 10 degrees
    out to the right. Now knowing this would you be comfortable to drive
    this car for an extended period of time with your foot to the floor
    through down town Boston? (I know that tere are some out there that
    do do this already:-)).  
    	The answer to this silly example is NO, you wouldn't feel
    comfortable.  It's the same thing with an (ANY) rc bird. The straighter
    you build them the straighter they'll fly.
    
    
    	I have to run but will continue later.
    
    						Tom

    To continue with your question of incedences; the best incedences
    to start with for your particular ship is the one's listed by the
    kit or plan manufacturer. From here you can adjust as your flights
    progress.
    
    		Again have to go.
    
    						Tom

    Tom,
    
    This is the sort of stuff I was after. I tinkered with design before
    my enforced absence from the hobby and remembered one or two tit-bits
    of information. One thing for sure was that few modellers designed
    and "tuned" their flying machines more than the pattern guys!
    
    In most designs for the "average" (whatever that might be!) flyer,
    wings are set at funny incidences and most are built with wash-out.
    What I was getting at was: how vital is all this wash-out/diherdral
    etc? I have in the back of my mind the formula of zero incidence on
    engine/wing/tail combined with a symetrical wing section and "sensible"
    wing loadings/C of G was almost bound to fly! Questions: Is that true?
    Would such a beast fly? Is it also true that wash-out is there to
    prevent the beasts snap-rolling at low landing approach speeds? Enough
    design. 
    
    What about trimming? As a non-pattern flyer (previously and now
    for sure!) I'm facinated by the process of trimming a pattern ship
    and how much of that can/should be applied to more humble 'planes.
    What do you (the pattern flyer) do to the 'planes set-up BEFORE
    the first flight? This info. could be of serious use to all modellers,
    not just pattern!
    
    I read an article once which talked about small metal "pointers"
    being inserted into the control and flying surfaces to assist in
    the the trimming process (I beleive they were used when neutralising
    the trims on the TX by adjusting the pushrods etc). Lets have the
    innermost secrets of pattern trimming!!!
    
    Keith

    
    	First off to finish with your original questions, Trimming look
    to be needing a full topic. What do you think?
    
    	The radio is really up to the individual and her/his flying.
    For sport and non competition scale and radio will do that has
    sufficient channels to handle the required control functions.
    For novice pattern the same radio specs hold true. For competition
    you are looking for servo speed, centering and radio adjustability.
    It's critical to get the control input to the surface ASAP and to
    assure that the identical inputs result in identical surface
    changes. Also it's critical that the servo goes back to an exact
    neutral every time. If not then the trim of the ship will severely
    change.   I'm not trying to be vague but you need to determine what
    your needs are.  Realize that any compertition requires precision.
    Precision in equipment and the abilities of the person.
    
    
    
    					Tom 

    Keith,
    
    Just to sneak in on Tom's topic (and area of expertise), allow me
    to comment that a 0-0-0 degree incidence/decalage setup will, indeed,
    fly in almost any application.  There are, however, occasions where
    this may not be ideal, i.e. a bi-plane where the top wing should
    be setup slightly negative to the lower wing to insure that it (the
    top wing) stalls "last."  Many scale birds are setup with the wing
    slightly positive to insure that the plane's attitude in level flight
    will be slightly tail-high (nothing looks worse than a high performance
    fighter-type flying along draggin' it's tail).  Small amounts of
    down and/or right engine thrust "may" be adviseable to make a tail-
    dragger (conventional landing gear [U/C]) more well behaved/predictable
    on the ground.  Washout is primarily used  to assure that the wing
    tips stall "last," giving you "some" insurance against snap-rolling
    at low/slow/nose-high attitudes and is widely used in scale
    applications, maybe not so much in pattern as you want the ship
    to fly the same right-side-up AND inverted.
    
    These are just a few of the uses for incidence/decalage setups.  As
    you can well imagine, there is no "perfect" force arrangement setup;
    this will vary greatly according to application.  I won't presume
    to speak to what's best for pattern as, for starters, I don't pretend
    to know and, besides, that's Tom's specialty.  Tom, the ball's in
    yer' court, mah' friend.......
    
    Adios,	Al

    
    	Al I agree with what you said except for the biplane. The thought
    is right but I think your logic has a bug in it.  I have seen and
    set up bipes with the top wing at a higher degree of incidence than
    the bottom wing. Here is how I see it. Most bipes CG is at the leading
    edge of the bottom wing. When a plane stalls you want it to rotate
    forward and dive. this way you get increased airspeed and regain
    lift. If we were to set up a bipe as you indicated and the lower
    wing were to stall I see the following happening.
    
    	1, 0 lift from bottom wing.
    	2, Plane will revert to the aerodynamic center of the lifting
    	   wing which is now the top wing. 
        3, With the CG set at the leading edge of the bottom this
    	   would create an aft CG situation resul;ting in a tail
    	   heavy set up.
    
    
    	If on the other hand the top wing stalls first the lift now
    comes from only the bottom wing. Aerodynamic center is shifted
    behind the CG of the plane and creates a nose heavy condition.
    This condition rotated the plane forward hence increasing airspeed.
    
    
    
    						Top         

    
    This for all noters and readers of this note. The intent of this
    note IS NOT to develop pattern flyers. What it is for is a forum
    for the improvement of all flyers abilities in flying,building,
    practicing,trimming ect. I wish more would reply. I'm no expert.
    
                      				Tom

    Tom,
    
    Looks like we'd better agree to disagree on the point regarding
    incidence of the top wing of a bipe.  I see what yer' saying but
    the point, at least as I've always understood it, is that, when
    landing, let's say, with the nose already a little high during the
    flare, we want the bottom wing to stall (stop flying) first so the
    ship will "hang on" from the remaining lift of the top wing (usually
    the larger of the two wings), thereby preventing an undesireable (and
    usually fatal) snap near the ground.
    
    Those model bipes I've seen where the designer "does" include incidence
    settings (frequently, this info is NOT provided), have all called
    for the top wing to be ~ 1-degree negative to the lower wing.  Also,
    most full scale bipes are set up in similar fashion...the ones I
    can speak to from recent experience are the Beech Staggerwing and
    the Bucker Jungmeister, both of which had negative incidence in
    the top wing relative to the lower wing.  The logic of wanting to
    transfer lift to top wing in near stalled attitudes seems very sound
    to me...I imagine it as if I were going to transition from a bipe
    to either a high-wing monoplane with more than half the normal lift
    or a low-wing monoplane with less than half the normal lift.  In
    terms of stability, I'll opt for the high-winger every time!
    
    Adios amigo,   	Al

    I forgot to make one more point.  Remember that, once the lower
    wing has stalled, it's contributing a considerable amount of drag
    which tends to rotate the nose down through the pitch axis, thus
    keeping things in balance while the top wing hangs on.

    Well Al I read what your saying....... kind of like the question
    of what fly's better, a scale bird or a pattern ship. Depend on who
    is do'in the flying.....
    
    					Tom

>    					.......kind of like the question
>    of what fly's better, a scale bird or a pattern ship. Depends on who
>    is do'in the flying.....

	*  Agreed!  Again, it's a matter of application, or even personal taste.
	My opinion is that a pattern ship probably flies better in terms of con-
	trol response and neutral stability in "any" attitude than any other 
	type of R/C ship.  You just can't beat a thoroughbred which has been
	painstakingly refined over the years to fly exactly yhe same, inverted 
	or upright, stay precisely where you leave it and go exactly where you 
	point it.  However, few full scale aircraft fly with the same degree of
	precision as the average pattern ship.  Therefore, if realism, i.e. 
	similarity to full scale behavior/performance is yer' bag, you have to 
	lean towards scale...again, simply a matter of personal opinion/pre-
	ference.

	I'd like to second yer' statement regarding the fact that this pattern
	topic "should" appeal to virtually anyone, regardless of their partic-
	ular personal interest within the sport of R/C.  The skills developed
	in building/trimming an aircraft are directly transferrable to ANY fixed
	wing aircraft, trainer-to-racer-to-scale-to-sailplane.  Additionally, 
	regardless of whether an individual "ever" intends to fly pattern com-
	petition, he should at least learn and practice all the pattern maneu-
	vers his skill will permit.  Not only will he get a heckuva' lot more 
	fun out of every sport-flight he makes, but he'll learn what ALL the 
	controls are for and the capabilities/limitations of his aircraft (and
	himself) in the bargain.  The beauty of R/C (I crashed EVERY U-Control
	airplane I ever built) is that you can go waaaay up to a safe practice
	altitude to learn/practice maneuvers with little/no risk to the air-
	plane.  This SHOULD be the most active topic in the conference since
	EVERYONE can learn from it!

A thought occurred to me that a lot noters, newer to the sport, may not under-
stand the "incidence-ese" we're speaking in the last several notes so I thought
I'd provide a glossary of terms that will, doubtless, appear frequently in any
discussion relative to trimming:

THRUST DATUM LINE:  A line drawn down the longitudinal center of the fuselage
		    as viewed from the side or the top of the aircraft.

INCIDENCE:  The positive or negative angular variance of the wing or horizontal
	    stabilizer measured from the thrust datum line as viwed from the 
	    side of the aircraft.

DOWN-THRUST:  Similar to incidence; the negative angular variance of the engine 
	      thrust line measured from the thrust datum line as viewed from the
	      side of the aircraft.

RIGHT-THRUST:  The angular variance of the engine thrust line measured to the
	       right of the thrust datum line as viewed from the top of the 
	       aircraft.

DECALAGE:   The angular variance between the wing and horizontal stabilizer,
	    irrespective of the thrust datum line. Ex: 2-degrees positive in-
	    cidence at the wing and 1-degree negative incidence at the stab = 
	    3-degrees decalage regardless of the wing's, or the stab's, rela-
	    tionship to the thrust line.  Similarly, 1-degree positive wing and
	    1-degree positive stab = zero-degrees decalage.

That's enough for now.  Hopefully, these discussions will be kept simple enough
for these terms to suffice and enhance understanding.  If we get too "hairy" in-
to the aerodynamics, I'm afraid we'll lose a lot of people (including yer's tru-
ly!).

Adios,	Al

    PATTERN's gone dead again - wot's happening out there?? Do we have
    any contest pattern flyers in the audience (we've got a Scale genius
    after all, why not pattern?).
    
    Anybody prepared to comment on how a beginner should start to learn
    to fly "good" pattern? I'm assuming basic competence with a second
    or third four function 'plane. What's the next step (assuming you
    have a machine capable of pattern flight)?
    
    eg:
    
    (i)   What are suitable maneovers to start with?
    (ii)  How are they performed?
    (iii) What levels of competition are held?
    (iv)  What are the measures for success?
    (v)   What practice techniques do the serious pattern flyers use?
    
    Even if you don't want to be World Champion, most "Sunday Flyers"
    (like I was and am trying to get back to be!) indulge in mild
    aerobatics - why not make them the best you can? Comments?

    Hi Keith, 
    		I guess I must assume responsibility for the slump being
    the originator of this note. Problem is that I've been busy with
    MAXCIM and it seems that few are interested enough to keep up a
    consistent dialoge.  Let see if we can light some fires.
    
    
    
    		To start what are your plesent planes? most times you
    can start with what you have to begine practice and if you like
    it at all then can determine what you would like to build. 
    		Realize that in NOVICE pattern there are limitations.
    Those bing that you must fly with fixed gear or fly with the retracts
    down. The second being that you must use a muffled engine. My
    suggestionis to build a triked geared plane with a good .61 in it
    with fixed gear. You could fly novice and transition into sportsman
    and still be competitive. The key is also to build strong but LIGHT.
    I cannot stress the LIGHT part of the equation.
    
    	Plane suggestions,      Super Kaos .60
    				Johny Casburne Lucky Fly .60
    				FK Speeda .60
    				MK Curare 60
                		
    
    	What your looking for is a good airfoil with between 625-700
    square inches of wing that can be build under 7 lbs. An example
    is a sport scale/pattern ship I'm playing with called a DALOTEL
    625. It from a company in the US caled Zimpro. It's a .45 sized
    pipe ship or a .61 muffled ship. Wing span is 62 inches and all
    up weight ready for flight with fuel is 6lbs. It does manuavers
    as big as a piped .61 sixed pattern bird an I still haven't tweeked
    out the engine. My engine is a HB .61PDP Blitz running 12.5% nitro
    and a JR Century VII radio. Fixed gear. 
    
    						Tom
    		

    Hello Tom,
    
    At present I'm in the "doldrums" so to speak. I broke my old radio
    gear recently (can't get the spares) and I'm looking around for
    some new stuff (see note 344). The current plane is a semi-symetrical
    sectioned 4 function aileron trainer - not exactly about to set
    the world on fire...
    
    I'm taking a close look at a plane called the WOT4 - does this one
    sell in the 'States? It's high-wing but really flies with the right
    engine - certainly capable of most of the maneovers in "the book".
    
    I get the message about power-to-weight ratio - you can't have too
    much power if you've got a throtle, right?
    
    What's your opion on slightly smaller pattern ships? I've seen a very
    nice 54" .46 powered pattern ship (ANTARES, fully symetrical section,
    around 4-5lbs) fly and it seems pretty good to me. Yet you never see
    the experts fly these small birds; is this on the principle of a "good
    big 'un beats a good little 'un"? 
    
    Have you ever taught someone to fly pattern? It seems to me that
    once a flyer gets to the "take-off and landing" stage, he's pretty
    much on his own. Does anyone instruct pattern? If so what are the
    steps followed?
    
    Finally, what about you pattern flyers giving a set of "DO's and
    DON'Ts" regarding good and bad habits when performing various
    manoevers?
    
    Keith.

    
     The plane;
    		40-51 sized
    
    		Fully symetrical airfoil sections. Duel tapered. 550
    to 600 squares.
    		Low winger, wing and stab as close to the thrust line
    as possible but don't have both on the thrust line. This causes
    dampening problems.  Long tail moment. Trike gear (fixed gear for
    beginning pattern flyers)don't bother with retracts. Small frontal
    area a plus however viewed from the side you want a good portion
    of fuse area in front. This adds to the planes ability to fly on
    it's side.
    		Engine 7.5cc or larger. Good dependable radio with
    dual rates. No other bells and whistles required. 
    
    	If your in a club and or belong to a national organization
    inquirs as to the list of manuavers that are required of the novice
    pattern flyer. List them here and I'll try and help you with them.
    
    
    	One phylosophy statement I want to make is that what ever bird
    you choose this bird will be your pattern bird. Not a ship that
    is tossed around the sky like most sport ships. It will have a 
    purpose and should be flown and used for only this purpose. This
    is the mental attitude that you must instill in your practice. Each
    flight has a purpose. You will find that you will be bringing two
    ships flying. One, your pattern bird and a second being a sport
    plane for boring holes in the sky.
    	When you build this ship nothing else but perfect alignment and
    building techniques should be your goal. Any misalignment can in
    most cases be corrected with trim however there is no substitution
    for a bird biult straight.
    
    						Tom

		Hya Tom


		How's your chopper

		
		cheers

		bob

    
    	Hi Bob, I'm ordering the radio for the chopper today. JR
    Century VII. I'll be running two bateries. One for the radio
    and the other for the gyro. I ordered a Futaba mini gyro
    yesterday. All I need to do is trim off the orientation tab
    and I'll be able to fit the connector into my JR radio.
    	Speaking of choppers and seeing as this is a pattern forum
    I guess an explanation is in order. The reason I'm going to
    learn how to fly a chopper is to improve my motor skills in my 
    left hand. Flying choppers requires constant inputs with both
    hands and a much larger use of the left hand than an airplane.
    
    
    					Tom

	I have noticed in several pattern articles that all pattern 
planes are in some way compromised, ie; some are designed for good roll 
characteristics, some for large high speed maneuvers and others for 
good knife edge etc.  Can some of you pattern flyers comment on 
different designs and there characteristics.  Planes like the Super 
Kaos, Phoenix, Curare, Dirtybirdy etc.

	Also what are the major design factors that affect those 
characteristics.   What about materials to build the pattern ship.  Does 
it really make a difference whether it's foam, balsa or fiberglass, if 
it's straight and true?

	Lets get some more activity going with this aspect of the sport.

					Tom from PA

    
    	To start the discussion and to use the ships that you have listed
    lets put them in the order that they were designed.
    
    	Kaos, Dirty Birdy, Curare, Pheonix VIII (there was a series
    of these) 
    
    
    	If memory serves me the kaos was designed in the sixties. This
    is when proportional systems were just coming into their own. The
    plane is manuaverable yet falls into todays standards of a sport
    ship. In it's day it was one of the hottest ships going. Built true
    it will loop and stall well and is an acceptable rolling ship. Realize
    that when it was designed these charactoristics were of major
    importance.The maunavers done were largely looping with less to
    do with rolling.
    	The Dirty bird was the next major step. It is sleaker and has
    an improved forward fuse surface area. This lends itself to improved
    rolling and easier to fly on it's side. The wing is also closer
    to the thrust line which enhances the rolling of the ship. History
    tells us that the pattern was also changing at this time to add
    more precision rolling manuavers.
    	The Curare came out in mid 70's. It was designed with even more
    fuse area to help it fly on it's side and an anhedral (drooped)
    tail to improve it's looping charactoristics. Anhedral gives the
    stab the ability to keep a protion of the stab directly out of
    the airflow off of the wing at any one point in time. 
    	The Phoenix was in development at the same time as these three
    ships. It has had to date nine versions. The most popular was the
    Phoenix VIII.  This ship exhibits many design traits that the others
    have but it is styled to be sleaker. It also utilizes a swept back
    wing which has the effect of adding dyherdal to the wing yet doesn't
    produce as great a pitching effect as dyhedral does when rudder
    is applied.
    	One thing that may not be noticed is the increases in wing area
    and changes in plane weight over the years. Initially weight was
    low at about 6-7 lbs with wing areas of 625-675 sq. in.  As more
    power became available the wing area was increased and was the weight
    of the ships. In the late 70's and early 80's it was typical for
    a pattern ship to weight 9-11 lbs.
    
    
    			I have to go now so we can continue this latter.
    
    
    							Tom

    
    	Well, to continue.........  You next asked about materials.
    NO. it doesn't matter what it's built out of, provided that it's
    strong,light and is limited in the amount a flex under stress.
    You quite a bit of fiberglass because from a manufacturing and
    general public (pattern public that is) it's easier to reproduce
    the suttle curves of the fuse. They are also for the most part
    truer that built up fuses. Again I'm not talking a built up fuse
    from a master builder but one from the general modeling public.
    A fiberglass fuse is not in most cases the lightest way to go.
    A built up fuse is usually lighter. As far as wings go I don't
    think that you can get a truer wing than from a good set of foam
    cores and the correct building techniques. Good foam cores covered
    with balsa give an excellent ripple free surface. 
    If you can find a glass dirty birdy kit that would be a great plane
    to start pattern flying with. If I were to suggest starter planes
    the list would look something like;
    
    	Dirty Birdy, Super Kaos 60 (replacing the built up wing with
    a foam core wing) 
    	FK Models SPEEDA, CURARE,  JETSTAR, SKYLEADER
    	Johnny Casburne Superfly .60
    	Hobby Barn Minare
    	
    	If you could swing it I would lean towards an FK kit.  They
    all run just over 100.00 but they come with presheeted wings and
    stabs. They have the most solid fiberglass fuse I have seen. The
    beam engine mount comes installed and the hardware pack is good.
    They also built straight. One nice thing about the wings is that
    they use epoxy to adhere the wing skins to the foam core. 
    	I strongly suggest that you but a fixed gear bird. By using
    Kraft slim line wheels there is almost no adverse effect to having
    the gear down.  For the novice and sportsman the reduced possibility
    of damage due to a gear problem greatly enhances the flying time.
    	When you consider an engine go with one the has a muffler.
    Plan for the possibility of a pipe but start using a muffler. In
    novice the use of a muffler is manditory but by planning the use
    of a pipe you will be able to use the ship in the next higher class.
    This will help the consistance side of the winning equasion. It
    will also buy you time while you ready the new bird you may have
    been planning for.
    	When you finish your bird note that you can mix plastic covering
    with paint. As an example, you can cover the horizontal stab up
    to where the fuse attaches to the stab. run some masking tape on
    the plastic covering app. 1/4" away from the fuse. Scuff this plastic
    film with 400 paper and then apply a thin fillet of Painters puddy
    or if a larger filler is wanted use EPOXYLITE from sig. Remove the
    masking tape and allow to dry. Light sand this fillet. Mask off
    the entire stab covered with plastic film and then prime the fiberglass 
    fuse. Sand,paint and then remove the masking. 
    
    NOTE that the fillet should contact three different materials;
    
    	the fiberglass fuse, a small section of the sheeting and a small
    section of the plastic covering.
    
    
    						Tom 
    

	Hey! That info on the progression of pattern planes was really 
neat.  I can see that major changes have occured with the design since 
proportional gear has come out.  I wonder though if most of the current 
new designs really fly that much differently.  When I was reading the
latest World Pattern results in the AMA mag I got the impression that 
you get extra points if you fly your own design.  Is this true?

    	I currently have a Super Kaos with fixed gear, built up wing and a 
K & B pumper.  Hope to get in some practice this winter and try a couple 
of contests next spring.  I have a name of a local pattern flyer and will 
try to get a couple of instructional sessions under my belt before 
trying a meet.

    	I also found your theory of treating your pattern bird differently
and only flying the pattern and developing a mind set with that bird an
interesting idea, then using another plane to bore holes in the sky.  I think
I will try it and see how it helps in my pattern flying.

    
    					TOM from PA

    
    Gee, I really can't give you any definitive reply to your question
    on having to fly one's own design.
    
    I can add some comments heard.
    
    1) Rubbermaid pattern ships aren't looked upon to positively by
    most diehards.
    
    2) One's own desgin may in fact exhibit one's total competence.
    
    I think that it's more personal opinion that anything else. I know
    that from the guys that used to fly CL pattern it's almost taboo
    to fly someone elses design. They also are used to being judged
    for workmanship so an ARF would also be Taboo.
    
    
    						Tom

	I have a question regarding the novice pattern.  The first three 
maneuvers, takeoff, straight flight out, and procedure turn, are these 
flown in separate passes or do you combine these right after take off.  
It would seem that the aircraft would be far off from the side of the 
judge if #2 and #3 were combined with the takeoff.
	I know, it's sounds like a dumb question, but I don't want to 
start out practicing the wrong maneuvers.

				Tom from PA

    As I understand it, you have an option here.  You can string the
    takeoff (up wind) straight flight out (up wind immediately following
    the takeoff) and the procedure turn immediately following the straight
    flight out.  You also have the option of taking a trim lap after
    your takeoff and comming around to do the straight flight out followed
    by the procedure turn.  After the trim lap, all passes must contain
    a judged manuver.  The AMA rule book has a section on judging and
    on the rules as well as the description of the manuvers.
    
    Charlie
    

    
    I think it's great that your getting ready to start the novice pattern.
    
    
    
    	This is a quick note on how to fly the novice pattern.
    
    
    1, Model is ROG on the runway.
    
    2, Announce to the judges the takeoff will commence. Wait a couple
    of seconds and the start takeoff. Wheel should break ground in front
    of you. plane rises and when it is as far away from you flying as
    it was in the ROG the plane should be only 6 - 10 feet off of the
    ground. Announce to the judges "manuaver complete". 
    
    3, Gain altitude and turn away from the flight line.
    
    	Fly downwind past yourself and then do a turn around (split
    S ).
    
    4,  These next three manuavers and chained together.
    
    	Straight Flight In,Procedure Turn, Straight Flight Out.
    
    	You will be flying straight in paralleling the flight line app. 
    200-300 feet away from yourself app. 100- 150 ft. in altitude.
    	    
    	 During the turn around you announce to the judgees that 
    "The  next manuavers will be , startight flight in,procedure turn
    and straight flight out" 
    	When the plane is app. 500-700 feet away from you flying IN
    you announce " manuaver begining now". At this point you are being
    judged for a straight flight in. As you come to center you initiate
    a 90 degree turn away from the flight line so that when the turn
    in complete the plane id flying directly perpendiculat to your self
    and flying away. At this point to commence a 270 degree turn to
    bring yourself back to the place where you entered the 90 degree
    runs and you should be flying downwind. You again fly straight parallel
    to the flight line out. When you get to the point where you had
    called "beginning now" you announce " manuaver complete" and continue
    out the another turnaround to get ready for the next manuaver.
    
    Next time the stall turn and emmelman turn.
    
    						Tom

    Charlei,   There are NO options here. Manuavers flown out of sequence
    will be judged as zero....
    
    
    All pattern classes have three passes in front of the judges that
    are not judged.  This may not be written in the rules book but it
    is what happens. The first free pass happens after the completion
    of a takeoff. the plane is up wind seeing as how you took off into
    the wind. You fly past yourself parallel to the flight line and
    the turnaround for your second judged manuaver (takeoff was the
    first).  Most pattern manuaver schedules end with a downwind manuaver
    so that in order to get ready for a landing you turn around and
    fly upwind. turn away from the flight line into a traffic pattern
    (ubjudged) and then fly again past yourself downwind. There are
    two valid reasons for these passes. The first reason is that the
    first upwind pass getting ready for the traffic pattern is used
    to slow the plane down and to check that your retracts (if you have
    them) are down. Typically (even though it's not asked for) the pilot
    will announce that" gear are down " or " got three down" or something
    similar. The second reason is to get used to flying the plane at
    a reduced speed.   After the downwind pass of the traffic pattern
    you make a 90 degree turn, fly baseleg and the another 90 degree
    turn setting up your approach for the landing.
    
    							Tom from Ma.

    Tom,
    	If you read the AMA rule book, you are allowed a trim lap after
    takeoff.  At our field, some people do the straight flight out
    immediately following the takeoff and some go around and do it
    more like you described.  Our judges say either way is ok.
    By the way, the sequence is :
    
    Takeoff
    
    Straight flight OUT
    
    Procedure turn
    
    Straight flight Back
    
    
    ect.
    
    
    Charlie
    

    
    
    	Yes my wording was incorrect but the three chained manuavers
    all hinge arount the procedure turn. This manuaver is centered at
    where the end of the 90 degree turn and the beginning of the 270
    degree turn intersect. Note also that this manuaver must fall into
    a 120 degree window. Understanding that this window is centered
    on the judges would indicate that the window is 60 degrees either
    side of center;
    
    			\      |      /
                         \     |     /
                          \    |    /
                           \   |   /
                            \  |  /
                             \ | /
                              \|/
    
    
    				there is no way that a flyer could place
    the center of his/her takeoff in front of the judges and then after
    climbing out do a straight flight out and then follow this with
    the procedure turn. it just doesn't fit that way. The sequence is
    
    ROG
    1,Takeoff------upwind
    (turnaround)
    Free pass,trimming pass---downwind
    (turnaround)
    2,Straight Flight Out----upwind
    3,Procedure Turn
    4,Straight Flight Back---downwind
    (turnaround)
    5,Stall Turn-----upwind
    (turnaround)
    6,Immelmann Turn---upwind
    (turnaround)
    7,Three Inside Loops---upwind
    (turnaround)
    8,One Horizontal Roll--downwind
    (turnaround)
    Leg one of a traffic pattern,Free pass,Upwind parallel to flight
    line,reduced speed.
    90 degree turn away from flight line.
    Leg two of traffic pattern,(this is short.
    90 Degree turn brings plane parallel to flight line.
    Leg three of traffic pattern, Free pass,parallel to flight line.
    fly past yourself in preperation for landing.
    90 degree turn,towards flight line.
    Base leg.
    90 degree turn onto final.
    9,Landing---upwind
    
    
    
    					Tom

    
    Charlie,   YOU READ THE AMA BOOK!!
    
    
    	Pg. 44 section 14
    
    	" Flight Pattern. The maneuvers in all classes must be executed
    during an uninterrupted flight in the order in which they are listed.
    Each time the model passes in front of the judges a maneuver must
    be executed except after takeoff and before landing, where in each
    case a maximum of two passes may be made."
    
    	       section 14.1
    
    	"In the maneuver lists that follow,(U) and (D) denote manditory
    maneuver orientation. The sequence must be followed in accordance
    with the direction of takeoff and landing as specified by contest
    officials."
    
    	       section 14.3
    
    	"If an ilegalpass (crossing a line perpendicular to and centered
    on the judges)is made the maneuver which should have been executed
    shall be scored zero"
    
    
    
    	       section 15 Novice Pattern Maneuvers
    
    		1 Takeoff (U)
                2 Straight Flight Out (U)
    		3 Procedure Turn 
    		4 Straight Flight Back (D)
    		5 Stall Turn (U)
    		6 Immelmann Turn (U)
    		7 3 Inside Loops (U)
    		8 One Horizontal Roll (D)
    		9 Landing
    
    
    
    
    
    						Tom from Ma.

    
    	Normally one pass is used after takeoff and two prior to landing.
    The reason why two passes might be used after takeoff is in the
    event of a change in traffic pattern you would have to pass by the
    judges twice to get the orientation correct. I have actually seen
    the traffic pattern change in the middle of a guys flight. He finished
    and made three pass bt the judges, Landed asked for a refly and
    he got the refly. It actually hurt the guy as he didn't fly as well
    be in the interest of fareness they were willing to grant the refly.
    
    	ONE comment I really want to stress is that judges and CD are
    really tolerant of novice flyers. They understand the limited 
    exposure that these flyers may have seen and are willing and able
    to help. When you transition from novice to sportsman you may fly
    exactly the same as you did in novice but your scores are usually
    lower. This is because the judges figure that you should know your
    shit by now and be competent to fly and know what is expected.
    The tolerance is reduced. As I stated before it's good to hook up
    with a seasoned flyer even if he is a sportsman flyer. They know
    what your going through.  You will find that a lot of people want
    to help you when you go to a contest. They want you to have fun,succeed
    and become one of the ranks.
    
    							Tom from Ma.
    

    Tom,
    
    I just ordered my Christmas present, a FK Aeroplane "Jetstar". 
    I was wanting to put an OS .46 in it.  Can I expect reasonable verticle
    performance or is a .60 a must.  Also, ordered it without the optional
    manifold because it was out of stock.  Is it necessary?  One last
    question.  I had to order the retract version, they are not getting
    non-retracts for 3 months.  Do I purchase retracts separately, I
    forgot to ask the gal?
    
    Thanks,
    Chris
    
    Also, project "Kougar" is 50% completed.

Chris,

What engine/power range is recommended by the mfgr.?  Kit makers are always a
little optimistic regarding the power range and if, say, .45-to-.60 is the rec-
ommended range, performance is almost guaranteed to be disappointing if you use
anything smaller than a .60.  Always use the top of the power recommendation
range or you're leaving yer'self open for a big disappointment.

Except for the E-Z type ARF/RTF kits and some verrry deluxe kits, retracts are
always a "buy it yer'self" item.  Personally, I'd recommend the Rom-Air system 
as they're small, light, strong, easy to install/setup and require little main-
tenance.  Also, they require no special 180-degree servo and, since they come 
with everything needed to install them, they are also one of the cheapest setups
going.  (If you go with Rom's, I recommend using a hand air-pump [like the one 
sold by Sonic-Tronics.  Freon tends to be verrry temperature sensitive and dries
out the O-ring seals in the gear...besides, air is free.)

However, if someone in yer' area has a preference for some other brand/type [and
has been demonstratably successful with `em], by all means go with his recommen-
dations as he can answer questions and help you over any rough spots you may en-
counter installing and using the gear.  Retracts aren't that tough and you'll 
love flipping that [thus far impotent] switch atop the Tx and watching the gear 
go away, then fly by looking fast, clean and nasty.

Adios,	Al

    Well Chris..... as far as the engine goes it depends on what you
    expect out of the plane. If your intent is for a good sport ship
    then the 40 -51 engine range will do well for this ship. If
    however your interested in making this a competetive machine
    then I would opt for a .61. It will fit into the engine mounts
    in the plane. I would suggest an OS 61 FSR, Supertiger S61 (not
    the small case) or an HB 61PDP Blitz. I'm having excellent luck
    with an HB in one of my ships. 
    As far as retracts go Al is right. Except for the EZ's retracts
    are a seperate item. Be careful when you order the retracts.
    The FK planes only fit a couple of brands. They don't fit the
    brand Al suggested.  If you really wanted a fixed gear version there
    is a simple way of mounting fixed gear. The retracts aren't really
    necessary.
    You'll find that the fiberglass is excellent. We should talk,there
    are some things you should do in the building process to assure
    that the ship comes out straight.
    Call me if you like  243-2506.
    Start now thinking about hos to keep this ship light. I'm convinced
    that a strong,light stiff structures with good horsepower fly better
    than any other combination.
    
    						Tom 

    
    Sorry Chris, Forgot about that manifold. To answer your question
    all I can say is that you'll know if you need it once you have the
    plane and engine combination at home. My first guess wi=uold be
    that you would need the manifold or else why would they sell them.
    Certainly not for a tuned pipe. When you go to buy a tuned pipe
    there are all different lengths of tuned pipe header that can be
    purchased. However don't worry, you cna probably make your own muffler
    extention if one is required.
    
    						Tom

    Re. .52
    
    Al,
    
    Thanks,  The manufacturer recommends 40-45 engines.  According to
    Tom's response in .53 the Rhom-airs won't fit.  I'll see what the
    maker recommends when it gets here.  There are only 2-3 people at
    our field who use retracts.  The DF guy uses the Rhom's and I was
    not elated to see them collapse on several harder than average
    landings. Well only nose gear in all fairness.  It did'nt seem to
    bother him that it happens, but I would'nt want $1000 worth of plane
    scraping down grass, God forbid, Asphalt.  
    
    I was going to stay away from them, but could not get a non-retract
    version.  I have thought about installing fixed gear anyway, but
    you have got my attention with the flyby-raise the gear-look bad!
    
    
    Re .53
    
    Tom, 
    
    I'll be calling you.  The gal at Mutchlers said the Manifold was strictly
    optional, and you could use any normal engine/stock muffler setup.  I
    just got a "Tower Hobbies" catalog and they have tons of pipes/adapter/
    make your own parts.
    
    Thanks again,
    Chris Spohr

    Hello, there, Pattern Flyers!
    
    What happened to all of you? Not flying no pattern no more?
    
    Well, I'll tell you what: Since I got involved in precision aerobatics
    all the rest seemed to pale by comparison (except maybe for some
    heavy duty scale building).
    
    I'd really like to have some talking going around this note.
    
    Let's go,Pattern flyers, say something.
    
    I, for myself, just finished my second season at RC. After I tasted
    pattern late last year, I was hooked. This year I started the
    Intermediate class which is the entry level "turnaround" in the
    FAI set up. Been to four contests this year and won first place
    on the last one.
    
    I find this kind of flying extremely difficult. I can fly just about
    anything else pretty well. Including Cap21 at low speed for landing.
    But precision aerobatics is where the rubber meets the road. Doing
    those manoeuvres precisely, elegantly, with or without the pressure
    of the contest is a REAL challenge. I know a lot of people who can't
    stand the dicipline or don't have the talent who don't like it...
    (I am hoping to get some reaction out of this one)
    
    Anyway, I am fortunate to belong to the same club as Ivan Kristensen,
    Canadian champion and vice in the world. The guy is right up there
    with Hanno Pretner and all those guys who make it look so easy.
    
    Well, let's see if there is anybody still alive out there!

    I plan on getting into pattern in the next year or 2 but have a
    number of other projects in the queue first.

                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |            Happy Landings!
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|              - Dan Miner
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |     " The Earth needs more OZONE,
                      |      /                       not Caster Oil!! "    
                      |_____/

    Hello fellow patterns,
    
    	I'm interested in getting into pattern flying. I have a SIG
    KOUGER built already. I tried flying it before I was really ready.
    Ended up crashing. Nothing major. I'm working on getting as
    much time on my trainer(Fancy Stick40), and I am also working on 
    a low wing, .25 powered bird that should help to give me some 
    more training.
    	What I would like to know, is if there is some publication on
    how to do some manuvers. Ya know, at what point you are to do what,
    I have a picture of some of the FAI Aerobatic Schedule. I would
    like to know how it is done. Now, I know that having an instructor
    would be great, but it helps me a lot if I could see what has to
    be done. Not just be told.
    
    Any info would be great.
    
    
    Norm
    

    Norm, I'd suggest that you reread all of the replies within this
    note. Much of what your asking for has already been covered. I'd
    also suggest that you contact AMA and request a rules book and start
    with the novice pattern.
    
    
    Tom

    Norm,
    	RC Modeler Magazine had a continuing series of articles on
    aerobatic flying last year.  These articles went into how to learn
    many manuvers from simple loops to inverted stuff.  I would suggest
    that you borrow some of these back issues and read up on them. 
    I learned several new tricks from them.  I still can't do a
    Lomchevak (sp?) though.
    
    CHarlie
    

    CHARLIE,
    
    Don't despair; even knowing _how_ to do a Lomcevak is no guarantee
    you'll get one when you try.  It's more up to the airplane than
    anything else whether a tumble will result from the control inputs.
    The terrible part of it is that, 'til you at last fly a ship that
    _will_ do the maneuver, you have no way of knowing whether you know
    how to do it or not...real Catch-22 there.  Ask ol' Dan Miner; he's
    seen me attempt the Lomcevak with at least three different birds,
    none of which would perform the maneuver...fact is, I came closer
    to getting one with his .40-size Stik than with either my MiG-3
    or the Yeller' Peril.  Yet Bob's Holman P-47 does the maneuver with
    ease so go figger'....we've yet to determine just _what_ to do to
    a ship to get it to do a Lomcevak - some just seem to do it and
    others don't.    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

        Re:< Note 279.61 by PNO::CASEYA "THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8)" >

                I tried  with the Aeromaster and couldn't make it.  I did
        throttle back and will try gradually higher throttle settings.  I
        am certain I threw the stick forward at the right moment.

                      _ 
                     / |
        |  _====____/==|
        |-/____________|
        |    |        o \
             O           \ 
                          O
         Hang in there! o_|_
                          |
             Anker      \_|_/

    Anker,
    
    I've had the best luck obtaining a Lomcevak at high throttle...I
    believe a good blast over the full-down elevator is necessary to
    pull the plane over the top of the tumble.    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

        Re:< Note 279.63 by PNO::CASEYA "THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8)" >

        Thanks Al,
        
                I'm just a tad worried what a blast from a .91 will do to
        a ship designed for .45 to .61 engines.  I'll work on it and keep
        increasing the throttle.   Do you punch the throttle as you throw
        the stick forward, or do you do it at the start of the snap?

                      _ 
                     / |
        |  _====____/==|
        |-/____________|
        |    |        o \
             O           \ 
                          O
         Hang in there! o_|_
                          |
             Anker      \_|_/

    Anker,
    
    I enter the maneuver in about a 45-degree shallow climbing turn to 
    the right at full throttle.  Then, leading slightly with the rudder,
    I snap to the left and, just as the nose passes through vertical,
    I go from full up to full down elevator, holding everything else
    as is.  What _should_ happen at this point is that the nose tucks
    under and follows right through to the upright like a fuselage-length
    outside loop, appearing to tumble as though suspended by the wingtips.
    A really good Lomcevak will continue to tumble as long as the controls
    are held.  Full power is held throughout the maneuver.
    
    To recover, simply let go of everything, allow airspeed to build
    and recover the dive with up elevator...just like recovering from
    a spin.  You may wish to retard throttle during the recovery.   

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

        Re:< Note 279.65 by PNO::CASEYA "THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8)" >

        Thanks Al,
        
                I was  doing  it  from  level flight and pushing the sick
        forward when the  nose  passed  though 45% up and wings level.  I
        can see that the  maneuver  will  work much better with the plane
        pointing straight up.
        
                I'm interested in the  fact that you snap to the left.  I
        almost always snap by applying right stick, simply because that's
        most confortable to me.  Are  you  a leftie?  I can theorize that
        left snaps should be easier because the prop is helping.
        
                I can't wait to try it.
        
                An interesting question that you  may  be able to answer:
        I have experimented a lot with  spins on high wing, flat bottomed
        trainers.  Most of them won't, they  just spiral.  I would assume
        because  there  simply isn't enough elevator to get  the  outside
        wing  into  a  stall.    The real question is  why  Bill  Clark's
        flat-winged PT  40  stalls  and  spins  beautifully when OPPOSITE
        rudder is applied.   It refuses to stall and spin with the rudder
        applied to the same side as the ailerons.

                      _ 
                     / |
        |  _====____/==|
        |-/____________|
        |    |        o \
             O           \ 
                          O
         Hang in there! o_|_
                          |
             Anker      \_|_/

    Anker,     In most cases your probably seeing the effects of adverse
    roll. Lots of dihedral and a rudder on only one side of the horizontal
    stab will often times give you this effect.
    
    
    Tom

    Tom, the PT40 Anker is talking about (mine) has absolutely NO dihedral.
    It's flat as the board I built it on. There is ome rudder, maybe
    20%, below the stab.
    
    It also flys beautifully inverted, with very little down elevator
    required. This surprises me, I expected that the airfoil (this is
    a flat bottom wing) would suck the plane down when inverted, requiring
    lots of elevator correction.
    
    The thing this plane won't do, at least for me, is knife edge. Maybe
    it needs some dihedral for knife-edge?
    
    Bill

    How spins _really_ work...
    
    Assume you're into a situation that airspeed is very low... almost at
    the stall point, but not quite.  Then, turn to one side (roll with
    ailerons, then up the elevator, and kick the rudder inward too, a
    maximum-performance uncoordinated (skidding) turn). 
    
    Now, the inside wing is below stall speed, and stalls, while the
    outside wing is still above stall speed and lifting.  The inside wing
    falls, and you can't bring it up with aileron, because application of
    aileron makes it see the airflow as an increased angle of attack, which
    makes the inside wing stall worse.  This is a full spin scenario. 
    
    To get out, neutral the elevator, use reverse rudder+throttle to kill
    the rotation and get both wings either flying/stalled, then dive to get
    airspeed. 
                                                       
    ...or so one book on aerobatic flying says...
    
    	-Bill

    Anker,
    
    Nope!  I'm not a leftie...just the way I learned, I guess: I always
    roll to the right but snap and spin to the left.  I think you _will_
    see some difference in the maneuver when entered from a nearly vertical
    attitude.  Sometimes you may miss the Lomcevak but enter a tight
    inverted spin following a really exciting entry.  :B^)  This is
    nearly as spectacular as the Lomcevak itself!  Don't panic; just
    pull throttle, let everything go and recover as you normally would
    from a spin, letting the airspeed build up a bit, then applying
    elevator.   

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Norm,
    
    RCM magazine has been publishing a series of articles on aerobatics
    over the past year.  They are well done and contain diagrams of the
    manuver, how to practice and diagrams of the stick positions as well.
    If you can't locate them I'd be glad to send you copies (someday we'll
    all have workstations and scanners!)
    
    I draw the diagrams on 3x5 cards and take them to the field with me.
    
       --|--             Happy (con)Trails!
        (O)             
________/ \_______       Scott Cox
    

These notes were moved by the moderator.
    
                      <<< IOALOT::DUA3:[NOTES$LIBRARY]RC.NOTE;4 >>>
          -< Welcome to the Radio Control Conference Home of DECRCM >-
================================================================================
Note 1063.0                Aerobatics/Pattern(AMA,FAI)                 4 replies
SA1794::TENEROWICZT                                  14 lines  31-JUL-1989 07:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    
    	Looking back at the notes I can't seem to find any of the Aerobatic
    or Pattern notes. So if this note is inappropriate then,moderator
    please move. If it's OK then lets make this the official note on
    aerobatics/pattern.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
     
================================================================================
Note 1063.1                Aerobatics/Pattern(AMA,FAI)                    1 of 4
HEFTY::TENEROWICZT                                   18 lines  31-JUL-1989 09:04
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    	To start things off I flew the first flight on a new bird saturday.
    It's a Speeda 60, an FK kit I've had for a couple of years. It has
    an OS 61 Longstroke in it with fixed gear and a Davis Desiel muffler.
    I choose this muffler because I wanted to keep the ship simple and
    there was a noise complaint at our field. it is supposed to increase
    the RPM by app. 900 over a stock muffler. I haven't verified it
    but on the test flight the muffler sounds like a piped engine. The
    flight went well with only a broken nose wheel stearing arm. I had
    noticed that the arm was flimsey but used it anyways. It's since
    been fixed with another arm. I'll still fix this one last time when
    I buy and install a goldberg nylon arm. The ship is fast even without
[A    a tuned pipe. I hope to fly her tonight if the rains hold off. Further
    reports to follow.
    
    
    
    Tom
================================================================================
Note 1063.2                Aerobatics/Pattern(AMA,FAI)                    2 of 4
SA1794::TENEROWICZT                                 142 lines   1-AUG-1989 08:03
                      -< Section 1-4,AMA Novice Pattern >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


NOVICE AMA PATTERN
------------------


		I'm writing this assuming you want to start learning the 
AMA Novice Pattern in the hopes of attending a pattern contest. First a
little bit about that first contest. When you arrive and you should plan
to arrive a minumum of one hour prior to the start, inform the contest
director that this is your first event and that you would appreciate it if he
would place you in the middle or near the end of the flight order but not
the last. This is to give you some advantage to allow you to watch those 
ahead of you to help get a idea of what is expected. OK, you've entered.
Now go set up. get the plane all assembled and fueled and your dinning
fly put up to keep you in the shade. Get the chairs out and have a coffee.
After all of this is done you can take a walk down the flight line and
look at all of the pretty ships. Understand that looks mean nothing. They
judge you on how you fly not how the plane looks. Stop, say hi and in
general see what class the others are flying. Don't ask a lot of technical
question yet just say hello. If one of the contestents hits up a conversation
and he is in a higher class feel free to ask him to call fou you. Even if
you go to the contest with a buddy (assuming your buddy isn't some Masters
class flyer). OK, finish the tour and then attend the pilots meeting.






OK, enough of that lets get on too the manuavers...




FLIGHT SCHEDULE
------------------


					Wind
			     	     Orientation
------------------------------------------------
	1) Takeoff.			  U
	2) Straight Flight Out		  U
	3) Procedure Turn		  U
	4) Straight Flight Back		  U
	5) Stall Turn 			  U
	6) Emmelman Turn		  U
	7) Three Loops			  U
	8) One Roll			  D
	9) Landing			  U






1) TAKEOFF


	The caller positions the plane down wind of the judges. Your standing
along side the judges. While the called is still holding the plane run it
up to max revs to blow it out. The caller now comes back to you. The plane
is sitting idleing on the runway. You announce to the judges " The first 
manuaver will be TAKEOFF",pause  "Beginning now". As you say "now" you smoothly 
advance the throttle keeping control and gaining speed for liftoff. One
key is to position the plane far enough down the runway so that the wheels
break ground directly in front of you and the judges. Now the climb rate
is also important. If the plane was positioned on the runway app. 100ft
from you when you anounced "Beginning now" then the manuaver is finished
when the plane is 100ft away from you flying away. At this distance the plane
should only be 6ft off of the ground flying parallel to the flight line.
If the plane is disturbed by any winds respond quickly and crisply with a
correction and you won't be downgraded. Above all other things make sure the
wings are parallel to the ground when you call" manuaver complete"

		OK, you've called complete and continue to climb out. It's
very important to call each manuaver "Beginning" and " Complete". If you
don't these are deductions. You should climb to an altitude of app. 150-200ft
and do a gentle 180 degree turn. Fly parallel to the flight line past yourself
down wind. This fly by (which is free) should be app 400-500 ft away from 
yourself and dead parallel to the flightline. Do a gentle 180 degree turn
so that the plane is now traveling upwind parallel to the flight line app.
250-300 ft out and app. 1000-1500ft down wind. Your now in position to call 
the next manuaver but lets talk a little about this positioning. At this point
the distance the plane needs to travel before it gets in front of you is
important. I like to be able to count 15-20 seconds before the plane gets
to center stage. This seems to be enough time to call the next manuaver and
give a few seconds for set up and the a few more seconds  to call the
"Beginning Now" for the manuaver. Depending on how fast or slow your plane
travels will lengthen or shorten how far down wind or up wind you travel to
get ready for a manuaver. Also one other point. You'll see many flyers flying
big manuavers that cover a lot of sky. This isn't important. Don'e try and 
fly manuavers any bigger that your plane and it's power are capable of.
A goo round loop with a diameter of 100ft centered looks better than a mishapen
300 ft loop.


2-4)

	Manuavers 2 thru 4 are flown as a sequence of three manuavers chained
together into one long manuaver. It is perhaps one of the most difficult
manuavers to fly well.

	Straight Flight Out, Procedure Turn, Straight Flight Back.



	We pick up the action after our 180 degree turn positioned 1000-1500
ft down wind and 250-300 ft out. You call "The next manuaver will be STRAIGHT
FLIGHT OUT,PROCEDURE TURN,STRAIGHT FLIGHT BACK",pause ; during this pause 
you want to make any corrections to heading (Parallel to flight line)distance
out (app 250-300ft) and make sure the wings are level. When these have been
done and the plane is now app. 8 seconds from center stage you call "Beginning
now". You fly smooth, straight and as level winged as possible for app. 5
seconds. At this point the plane should be just to the down wind side of center
stage. Bank the wings hard and do a 90 degree turn away from yourself so that
the plane is now traveling perpendicular to yourself directly at center stage.
Once it is perpendicular you bank the wings opposite of the first turn and fly
a gentle 270 degree turn all the way around back to center stage and parallel
to the flight line. It's very important to keep the corrections of bank angle,
elevator and altitude smooth and gentle. The plane should be in a bank all
the way around until it is exactly at center stage. Exactly at center stage you
level the wings and proceed to fly parallel to the flight line and back out
down wind for 5 seconds. At the end of this time you call "Manuaver complete".

	
	OK you've completed the second thru fourth manuavers and it's now
time to get ready and set up for the next manuaver. To set up I prefer to 
pitch the plane up into a climb a few seconds after I call "complete" at
app. a 45 degree angle. This gives me a better look at the plane as it flies
away. You should climb to app. 400 ft and then roll the plane inverted. Once
inverted you apply elevator and do a half loop to get the plane flying up wind
and again 250-300 ft out and 1000-1500 ft down wind. Your now heading upwind
and ready to call your next manuaver.

		I'm going to end this note here and continue latter. Good
flying and practice.


						Regards

						Tom

================================================================================
Note 1063.4                Aerobatics/Pattern(AMA,FAI)                    4 of 4
SA1794::TENEROWICZT                                 172 lines   1-AUG-1989 11:06
                      -< Sections 5-9 AMA Novice Pattern >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




		Getting back to the Novice pattern flight maneuvers
we left off with the set up after completing the Straight Flight Out,
Procedure Turn,Straight Flight Back. We're now flying up wind at app.
250-300 ft out and app. 1000-1500 ft down wind. It's time to call
"The next maneuver will be , STALL TURN",pause. Again during the 
pause you want to make any corrections to altitude,heading and level 
those wings. One point is that the altitude of each maneuver flown
should all be the same. You don't want to fly maneuvers 2-4 at 100ft
altitude and the fly a stall turn starting level at 300ft. Keep the
altitude constant for all of the set up's.


5) STALL TURN


		You have announced the maneuver and are flying up
wind. As the plane reaches center stage to call"Beginning now", and
begin to pitch the plane up for 90 degrees of a loop until the plane
is vertical. It's important to make the arch of the quarter loop
the same as the arch used for a 360 degree loop. When the plane is vertical
you should continue to fly the plane up for app. 100-200 ft. I say
"fly the plane up" because you do exactly that. You add or take out elevator
to keep the plane vertical and you add right or left rudder to keep the
fuse going straight up. Now is the time to back off of the throttle to
idle and watch the plane slow down. Understand that the stall turn is a
balancing act. as the plane slows you should add a little throttle.
VERY LITTLE, just enough to keep an airflow going over the rudder.
Just before the plane comes to a stop you add full rudder. You'll have to
work of this technique and timing. It's important to stall turn into the wind.
By this I mean to rotate the nose of the plane into a crosswind. As the 
fuse comes parallel to the ground you need to get off of the rudder and 
allow the plane to fall towards the earth. If you don't get off of
the rudder the plane will wiggle. As the plane flies vertically down to add
throttle and pull the plane out in an identical arch as used in the UP
section of the maneuver. Your attempting to rotate the plane on a wing tip
and have it travel up and down on identical paths. You pull out horizontal
to the ground and flying downwind at the same altitude that you entered
the maneuver. As the plane passes center stage your call"Complete" and
fly out to again set up for the next maneuver. The set up process should be
identical to that covered before so I won't retrace the same steps.

	Assuming you have successfully turned around again and are traveling
up wind your positioning should be 250-300 ft out and 1000-1500 ft downwind
flying upwind towards center stage. You announce " The next maneuver will be
an Emmellman Turn",pause.



6) EMMELLMAN TURN

	Again use the pause time to correct for direction,altitude and level
the wings. As the plane enters center stage you announce "Beginning now" and
begin by pulling the plane up into a loop. The arch of the half loop should
be identical to the arch used for the quarter loop in the stall turn. For
clarity sake I'm now going to assume that your flying left to right. Think
of the half loop as a face of a clock. You enter the half loop at 6 O'clock
going counter clockwise. As the plane reaches 3 O'clock you ease off of the
elevator to keep the arch constant. At 1 O'clock you should perform a half
roll and come off of the elevator. Your trying to get the plane to come 
upright at the 12 O'clock position. Now fly out straight for a couple of
seconds and then announce "Complete".


	Because this maneuver is one that gains altitude the set up for the
next maneuver isn't identical to previous set up's. Normally a simple half
roll and a pull out using elevator will get you flying up wind and correctly
located. You'll need to practice to see if any pitch up before the half roll
is required to get you into position. Again we're looking to be set up at
app. 250-300 ft out and 1000-1500 ft downwind traveling upwind ready to call
our next maneuver.




7) THREE LOOPS

	I assume now that you know to announce the maneuver and correct
the plane and are ready to perform the next maneuver.  As you come to center
stage to call "Beginning now", and begin to pitch the plane up into a loop.
Again for clarity sake we'll assume we're flying left to right. Remember that
clock face. As you come to 3 O'clock you begin to back off of the elevator
to the point where at 1 O'clock your almost completely off of the elevator.
You allow the plane to fly over the top and let gravity do it's thing until the
plane reaches 11 O'clock. At this point your beginning to get on the elevator
harder and harder until at 7 O'clock your using app. 75-90% of the elevator
travel you have. You never want to get to 100% use. As the plane flies the loop
you need to keep the wings as parallel to the ground as possible and use the
rudder to correct for tracking, keeping the plane flying parallel to the
flight line and correctly spaced out 250-300 ft away from the flight line. A
well balanced,straight ship will allow you to do this. As you come around
the bottom of the loop at 6 O'clock you again pitch the plane up into the 
second loop and so on until your coming down the back side of the third loop.
As you reach 6 O'clock on this third loop you want to come off of the 
elevator smoothly so that the plane exits the loops at the same altitude that
it entered. Wait a second and the call "Complete" and fly up wind to do a
turnaround to prepare for the next maneuver.



		The only change now is that as you come out of the turn around
your flying downwind and you should be 250-300 ft out and 1000-1500 ft upwind.
Announce "The next maneuver will be ONE ROLL",pause. Correct the plane,make
sure those wings are level.




8) ONE ROLL

		One roll should be performed in about 2-3 seconds. It's not
a slow roll. When the plane is 10 seconds from center stage you call" Beginning
now" and roll the plane over. Try not to pitch the nose up. You want to 
position the roll in such a way so the the plane is inverted at center stage.
Continue the roll, as you go inverted add elevator to keep the nose from
dropping and as you roll to upright get off of the elevator. Done smoothly you'll
find that no rudder application is necessary. When the plane rolls upright
and the wing is level stop the roll and fly level for a second or two and then
call "Complete". 

	
	
		OK, Great!! You've scored 10's on all of the maneuvers and
your almost home. You need to turn yourself around. Most times this is best
done by reducing speed to 75% and doing a 180 degree turn to position yourself
100-150 ft out and 1000 ft down wind. At this point your going to get ready
for your landing. You will be doing what is know as a Traffic Pattern. You 
should fly past yourself (be smooth,it impresses the judges) upwind app.
500 ft and turn a smooth 90 degree turn away from the flight line. Fly
out away from the flight line and then turn a second 90 degree turn placing
the plane flying downwind app. 500 ft out.  As the plane flies past yourself
the second time traveling down wind reduce speed getting ready for the landing.
Fly downwind app.500 ft and then turn 90 degrees towards the flight line.
Fly this until you can make the final 90 degree turn that will align the
plane with the runway. At this point you will announce "The next maneuver
will be LANDING", pause.



9)  LANDING

		OK, your all set up for the landing approach. As the plane
settles you want to call "Beginning now" when the plane appears to be app.
6ft off of the ground. Make sure that the wings are level when you call the
beginning. You want to fly the plane all the way to the runway. The perfect
landing being perpendicular to yourself at center stage touching the main
wheels down and rolling out a short distance before the nose wheel touches.
Technically the landing is called "Complete when the plane has traveled a
distance equal to that when the plane was 6ft off of the ground. However
most guys call it complete when the plane is under control after a little
roll out.








		Well, those are the Novice AMA Pattern maneuvers and
some flight tips I hope will help. Lets here for anyone interested is 
aerobatics. Maybe we cane get Mr' Henderson to get active again and spread
some of his wealth of knowledge around?




						Regards

						Tom

Attn other (2 I think) Oz noters.

Ron Chidgey from the US is coming to Australia in November to run his Judges
School for Aerobatic and Scale judges. He ran this course for the F3A judges
just prior to the World Champs in  Virginia. The courses will be held in
Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne. All welcome to attend. 

Give me a call if you want more details.

John

I've been bashing my Panic around the sky and flying other "real" pattern ships 
and was hoping someone could go into reasonable detail about the controlled way 
to enter a flat spin (how entry differs from a regular spin) and how to get out 
;^) I assume that it differs from plane to plane how many revolutions it takes 
to recover and that needs to be practiced in order to get exit in the desired 
direction.

I'm interested at the level of "bang the rudder to the stops while..."

NOVICE AMA PATTERN
------------------


		I'm writing this assuming that you have wanted to go to a 
Pattern meet for awhile.  You may even have gone to observe yet still
never made the plunge into competition.  SO as an introduction into what
to expect...
                First a little bit about that first contest.  When you
arrive and you should plan to arrive a minimum of one hour prior to the
start, inform the contest director that this is your first event and that
you would appreciate it, if he would place you in the middle or near the
end of the flight order but not the last.  This is to give you some advantage
to allow you to watch those ahead of you to help get an idea of what is
expected. OK, you've entered.
		Now go set up. Get the plane all assembled and fueled. Make
sure that you use some type of fuel clamp to keep the engine from flooding.
Ask if it is OK if you test run your engine. If yes run it up and adjust the
mixture. Then shut it down and reinstall the fuel clamp. Make sure the tank
is full. Then  take your transmitter to the impound. Get your dining fly set
up to keep you in the shade.  Get the chairs out and have a coffee.  After
all of this is done you can take a walk down the flight line and look at all
of the pretty ships.  Understand that looks mean nothing.  They judge you
on how you fly not how the plane looks.  Stop, say hi and in general see what
class the others are flying.  Don't ask a lot of technical question yet just
say hello.  If one of the contestants hits up a conversation and he is in a
higher class feel free to ask him to call for you.  Even if you go to the
contest with a buddy (assuming your buddy isn't some Masters class flier).
OK, finish the tour and then attend the pilots meeting.
		It's important to be observant.  A lot can be learned by 
watching.  I mentioned that a "caller" is used.  This person is your helper.
They take the plane out to the runway and assist you is reading off what
the manuavers are so you can tell the judges.  The only other item to take 
care of is the score cards.  they are usually at the scoring table. Find out
how many round (flights) they expect to run for the contest and take twice
as many score cards.  Most times the care has a place for your name.  Take
two cards and fill in your name and mark the #1. These are for the first round.
Take the remaining cards and write your name and mark them for the other
rounds #2,#3 etc.  It's good to have these made up ahead of time.  You don't
need to rush around filling out cards when they are calling you to the flight
line.





		Enough of that, lets get on too the maneuvers...




FLIGHT SCHEDULE
------------------


					Wind
			     	     Orientation
------------------------------------------------
	1) Takeoff.			  U
	2) Straight Flight Out		  U
	3) Procedure Turn		  U
	4) Straight Flight Back		  U
	5) Stall Turn 			  U
	6) Emmellman Turn		  U
	7) Three Loops			  U
	8) One Roll			  D
	9) Landing			  U






1) TAKEOFF


	The caller positions the plane down wind of the judges. You're standing
along side the judges. While the caller is still holding the plane run it
up to max. revs to blow it out. The caller now comes back to you. The plane
is sitting idling on the runway. You announce to the judges " The first 
maneuver will be TAKEOFF",pause  "Beginning now". As you say "now" you smoothly 
advance the throttle keeping control and gaining speed for liftoff. One
key is to position the plane far enough down the runway so that the wheels
break ground directly in front of you and the judges. Now the climb rate
is also important. If the plane was positioned on the runway app. 100ft
from you when you announced "Beginning now" then the maneuver is finished
when the plane is 100ft away from you flying away. At this distance the plane
should only be 6ft off of the ground flying parallel to the flight line.
If the plane is disturbed by any winds respond quickly and crisply with a
correction and you won't be downgraded. Above all other things make sure the
wings are parallel to the ground when you call" maneuver complete"

	IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO CALL "BEGINNING NOW" AT THE BEGINNING AND
"MANUAVER COMPLETE" AT THE END. THIS DEFINES YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THE
START AND THE FINISH OF THE MANUAVER. IT ALSO GIVES THE JUDGES THE IDEA
OF WHAT IS THE BEGINNING AND END.

   SET-UP 

		OK, you've called "complete" and continue to climb out. It's
very important to call each maneuver "Beginning" and " Complete". If you
don't these are deductions. You should climb to an altitude of app. 150-200ft
and do a gentle 180 degree turn. Fly parallel to the flight line past yourself
down wind. This fly by (which is free) should be app 400-500 ft away from 
yourself and dead parallel to the flightline. Do a gentle 180 degree turn
so that the plane is now traveling upwind parallel to the flight line app.
300-400 ft out and app. 1000-1500ft down wind. You're now in position to call 
the next maneuver but lets talk a little about this positioning. At this point
the distance the plane needs to travel before it gets in front of you is
important. I like to be able to count 15-20 seconds before the plane gets
to center stage. This seems to be enough time to call the next maneuver and
give a few seconds for set up and the a few more seconds  to call the
"Beginning Now" for the maneuver. Depending on how fast or slow your plane
travels will lengthen or shorten how far down wind or up wind you travel to
get ready for a maneuver. Also one other point. You'll see many fliers flying
big maneuvers that cover a lot of sky. This isn't important. Don't try and 
fly maneuvers any bigger that your plane and it's power are capable of.
A good round evenly paced loop with a diameter of 100ft centered, looks better
than a misshapen 300 ft loop.


2-4)

	Maneuvers 2 through 4 are flown as a sequence of three maneuvers chained
together into one long maneuver. It is perhaps one of the most difficult
series of maneuvers to fly well.

	Straight Flight Out, Procedure Turn, Straight Flight Back.



	We pick up the action after our 180 degree turn positioned 1000-1500
ft down wind and 300-400 ft out. You call "The next maneuver will be STRAIGHT
FLIGHT OUT,PROCEDURE TURN,STRAIGHT FLIGHT BACK",pause ; during this pause 
you want to make any corrections to heading (Parallel to flight line)distance
out (app 300-400ft) and make sure the wings are level. When these have been
done and the plane is now app. 5 seconds from center stage you call "Beginning
now".  Another guage in determinimg when to call "Beginning Now" is to position
the plane so that it's 45 degrees to your side. This can be learned by wearing
a collared shirt with the collar unbuttoned. Turn your head to either side
so that the end of the collar (where the top button is) is directly under your
chin. This is app. 45 degrees.  You fly smooth, straight and as level winged
as possible for app. 10 seconds. At this point the plane should be 45 degrees
to the up wind side of center stage. Bank the wings hard and do a 90 degree turn
away from yourself so that the plane is now traveling perpendicular to the 
flight line app. 500-700 feet upwing of center stage. Once you complete the 90
degree turn and are perpendicular to the flight line  bank the wings opposite 
of the first turn and fly a gentle 270 degree turn all the way around back to
where you initiated the first 90 degree turn. At this point level the wings
and fly parallel to the flight line. It's very important to keep the 
corrections of bank angle, elevator and altitude smooth and gentle. The plane
should be in a bank all the way around until it is exactly at the point where
you initiated the first 90 degree turn. Now you fly straight and level parallel
to the flight line past yourself until the plane is app. 500-700 ft. downwind of
center stage. This should be the same point where you first called "Beginning
Now". This is the time to call "Maneuver Complete".

	
	OK you've completed the second through fourth maneuvers and it's now
time to get ready and set up for the next maneuver. To set up I prefer to 
pitch the plane up into a climb a few seconds after I call "complete" at
app. a 45 degree angle. This gives me a better look at the plane as it flies
away. You should climb to app. 400 ft and then roll the plane inverted. Once
inverted you apply elevator and do a half loop to get the plane flying up wind
and again 300-400 ft out and 1000-1500 ft down wind. You're now heading upwind
and ready to call your next maneuver.


	We left off with the set up after completing the Straight Flight
Out, Procedure Turn,Straight Flight Back. We're now flying up wind at app.
300-400 ft out and app. 1000-1500 ft down wind. It's time to call
"The next maneuver will be , STALL TURN",pause. Again during the 
pause you want to make any corrections to altitude,heading and level 
those wings. One point is that the altitude of each maneuver flown
should all be the same. You don't want to fly maneuvers 2-4 at 100ft
altitude and then fly a stall turn starting level at 300ft. Keep the
altitude constant for all of the set up's.


5) STALL TURN


		You have announced the maneuver and are flying up
wind. As the plane reaches center stage you call "Beginning now", and
begin to pitch the plane up for 90 degrees of a loop until the plane
is vertical. It's important to make the arch of the quarter loop
the same as the arch used for a 360 degree loop. When the plane is vertical
you should continue to fly the plane up for app. 100-200 ft. I say
"fly the plane up" because you do exactly that. You add or take out elevator
to keep the plane vertical and you add right or left rudder to keep the
fuse going straight up. Now is the time to back off of the throttle to
idle and watch the plane slow down. Understand that the stall turn is a
balancing act. As the plane slows you should add a little throttle.
VERY LITTLE. Just enough to keep an airflow going over the rudder.
Just before the plane comes to a stop you add full rudder. You'll have to
work on this technique and timing. It's important to stall turn into the wind.
By this I mean to rotate the nose of the plane into a crosswind. As the 
fuse comes parallel to the ground you need to get off of the rudder and 
allow the plane to fall towards the earth. If you don't get off of
the rudder the plane will wiggle. As the plane flies vertically down you add
throttle and pull the plane out in an identical arch as used in the UP
section of the maneuver. Your attempting to rotate the plane on a wing tip
and have it travel up and down on identical paths. You pull out horizontal
to the ground and flying downwind at the same altitude that you entered
the maneuver. As the plane passes center stage you call "Complete" and
fly out to again set up for the next maneuver. The set up process should be
identical to that covered before so I won't retrace the same steps.

	Assuming you have successfully turned around again and are traveling
up wind your positioning should be 300-400 ft out and 1000-1500 ft downwind
flying upwind towards center stage. You announce " The next maneuver will be
an Emmellman Turn",pause.



6) EMMELLMAN TURN

	Again use the pause time to correct for direction,altitude and level
the wings. As the plane enters center stage you announce "Beginning now" and
begin by pulling the plane up into a loop. The arch of the half loop should
be identical to the arch used for the quarter loop in the stall turn. For
clarity sake I'm now going to assume that your flying left to right. Think
of the half loop as a face of a clock. You enter the half loop at 6 O'clock
going counter clockwise. As the plane reaches 3 O'clock you ease off of the
elevator to keep the arch constant. At 1 O'clock you should perform a half
roll and come off of the elevator. Your trying to get the plane to come 
upright at the 12 O'clock position. Now fly out straight for a couple of
seconds and then announce "Complete".


	Because this maneuver is one that gains altitude the set up for the
next maneuver isn't identical to previous set up's. Normally a simple half
roll and a pull out using elevator will get you flying up wind and correctly
located. You'll need to practice to see if any pitch up before the half roll
is required to get you into position. Again we're looking to be set up at
app. 300-400 ft out and 1000-1500 ft downwind traveling upwind ready to call
our next maneuver.




7) THREE LOOPS

	I assume now that you know to announce the maneuver and correct
the plane and are ready to perform the next maneuver.  As you come to center
stage to call "Beginning now", and begin to pitch the plane up into a loop.
Again for clarity sake we'll assume we're flying left to right. Remember that
clock face. As you come to 3 O'clock you begin to back off of the elevator
to the point where at 1 O'clock your almost completely off of the elevator.
You allow the plane to fly over the top and let gravity do it's thing until the
plane reaches 11 O'clock. At this point your beginning to get on the elevator
harder and harder until at 7 O'clock your using app. 75-90% of the elevator
travel you have. You never want to get to 100% use. As the plane flies the loop
you need to keep the wings as parallel to the ground as possible and use the
rudder to correct for tracking, keeping the plane flying parallel to the
flight line and correctly spaced out 300-400 ft away from the flight line. A
well balanced,straight ship will allow you to do this. As you come around
the bottom of the loop at 6 O'clock you again pitch the plane up into the 
second loop and so on until your coming down the back side of the third loop.
As you reach 6 O'clock on this third loop you want to come off of the 
elevator smoothly so that the plane exits the loops at the same altitude that
it entered. Wait a second and the call "Complete" and fly up wind to do a
turnaround to prepare for the next maneuver.



		The only change now is that as you come out of the turn around
your flying downwind and you should be 300-400 ft out and 1000-1500 ft upwind.
Announce "The next maneuver will be ONE ROLL",pause. Correct the plane,make
sure those wings are level.




8) ONE ROLL

		One roll should be performed in about 2-3 seconds.  It's not
a slow roll. When the plane is 5 seconds from center stage you call" Beginning
now".  Try not to pitch the nose up.  You want to position the roll in such a
way so the the plane is inverted at center stage.  Continue the roll, as you
go inverted add elevator to keep the nose from dropping and as you roll to
upright get off of the elevator.  Done smoothly you'll find that no rudder
application is necessary.  When the plane rolls upright and the wing is level
stop the roll and fly level for a second or two and then call "Complete". 

	
	
		OK, Great!! You've scored 10's on all of the maneuvers and
your almost home.  You need to turn yourself around.  Most times this is best
done by reducing speed to 75% and doing a 180 degree turn to position yourself
100-150 ft out and 1000 ft down wind. At this point your going to get ready
for your landing. You will be doing what is know as a Traffic Pattern. You 
should fly past yourself (be smooth,it impresses the judges) upwind app.
500 ft and turn a smooth 90 degree turn away from the flight line. Fly
out away from the flight line and then turn a second 90 degree turn placing
the plane flying downwind app. 500 ft out.  As the plane flies past yourself
the second time traveling down wind reduce speed getting ready for the landing.
Fly downwind app.500 ft and then turn 90 degrees towards the flight line.
Fly this until you can make the final 90 degree turn that will align the
plane with the runway. At this point you will announce "The next maneuver
will be LANDING", pause.



9)  LANDING

		OK, you're all set up for the landing approach. As the plane
settles you want to call "Beginning now" when the plane appears to be app.
6ft off of the ground. Make sure that the wings are level when you call the
beginning. You want to fly the plane all the way to the runway. The perfect
landing being perpendicular to yourself at center stage touching the main
wheels down and rolling out a short distance before the nose wheel touches.
Technically the landing is called "Complete when the plane has traveled a
distance of app. 15 meters, however most guys call it complete when the
plane is under control after a little roll out.


		Well, those are the Novice AMA Pattern maneuvers and
some flight tips I hope will help. Lets here form those interested in 
aerobatics and pattern.  I have typed most of the AMA manuaver
schedules into the system.  I have access to a laminator. If you would 
like a laminated (wallet size) copy of an AMA manuaver schedule let me 
know via VAXMAIL.



						Regards

						Tom

    Grreat stuff, Thommasini. Now I have something to try out instead of
    moping around the sky in my jalopy. OK, I'll confess that I do carry a
    photocopied set of maneouvre diagrams from the RCM flight training
    course...
    
    ajai

    Whow, this is what I'm looking for quite a while. Because I like to
    learn how to fly pattern "like_the_book_says" this is great stuff !!
    Thanks alot, Tom, and if you'll come up with more manoeuvers, you'll
    shure have several carefull readers....(and fans)
    
    
    Bernd

    FLYING STRAIGHT
   =================


	One of the finer points to be practiced is simply "FLYING STRAIGHT".
Sounds simple,
			 IS VERY DIFFICULT.

	 What you should do is spend a number of tanks of fuel flying parallel
to yourself up and down the flightline back and forth.  Practice flying 
straight at a constant altitude on a constant heading from one end of the field
to the other.  Do this and only this until you can fly back and forth up and
down the field completely comfortable with the plane.  Do this in calm and in
windy weather.  Yes it is boring but FLYING STRAIGHT WILL WIN YOU VALUABLE
POINTS AT A CONTEST.  Sometimes it is all that is the difference between wining
and coming in second.  Flying straight is an optical illusion.  When you are 
actually flying straight the plane will appear to fly coming in towards you 
and then as it passes it will appear to fly away from you at a very slight 
angle.  If you could stand at the end of the field and look down the flight
path of a plane you would probably see that the plane flies on a slight curve.
Most pilots do this initially until they understand what is happening versus
what their eyes see.  It's important to use the rudder to move the plane in
and out as it flies straight. Try to minimize the use of ailerons and elevator
to keep the plane flying straight. 

     AMA Novice Schedule			 SPORTSMAN
==============================	        ===================================
1.  Takeoff		  (U)		1.  Takeoff			(U)
2.  Straight FlightOut	  (U)		2.  Double Stall Turn		(U)  
3.  Procedure Turn	 		3.  Cuban 8			(D)
4.  Straight Flight Back  (D)		4.  Immelmann Turn		(U)
5.  Stall Turn		  (U)		5.  3 Inside Loops		(U)
6.  Immelmann Turn	  (U)		6.  Straight Inverted Flight	(D)
7.  3 Inside Loops	  (U)		7.  One Outside Loop		(U)
8.  One Horizontal Roll	  (D)		8.  3 Horizontal Rolls		(D)
9.  Landing		  (U)		9.  Landing			(U)

(U) means upwind 			(U) means upwind
(D) means downwind			(D) means downwind
=============================		===================================


 ADVANCED				 MASTERS
=================================	=======================================
1.  Takeoff		     (U)	1.   Takeoff			(U) K-1
2.  Non Rolling Figure-M     (U)	2.   Figure M with 1/4 Rolls	(U) K-5
3.  Cuban 8		     (D)	3.   Four Point Roll		(D) K-4
4.  Double Emmelmann	     (U)	4.   Triangle Rolling Loop	(U) K-4
5.  Four Point Roll	     (D)	5.   Square Horizontal Eight	(D) K-5
6.  3 Reverse Outside Loops  (U)	6.   Six Sided Loop		(U) K-4
7.  Slow Roll		     (D)	7.   3 Outside Loops		(D) K-3
8.  3 Inside Loops	     (U)	8.   Top Hat			(U) K-3
9.  3 Horizontal Rolls	     (D)	9.   Slow Roll			(D) K-3
10. Square Loop		     (U)	10.  Square Loop with !/2 Rolls (U) K-5
11. Knife Edge Flight	     (D)	11.  Reverse Knife Edge Flight  (D) K-4
12. Landing		     (U)	12.  Landing			(U) K-1

(U) means upwind			(U) means upwind
(D) means downwind			(D) means downwind
==================================      =======================================
                                 

    It's nice to see this topic revived after lying dormant for so long. 
    I'm not a pattern person myself but I did fly in a few competitions
    back in the late 60's and can highly recommend it from a couple of
    perspectives:
    
    1. learning/practicing pattern will teach you MUCH about, not only
    flying aerobatics, but flying the airplane PRECISELY at ALL times.
    This forces optimum coordinated use of all flight controls and instills
    that intimate "FEEL" of the airplane so necessary to excell in almost
    any other facet of RC flying...including sport/Sunday flying.
    
    2. Pattern competition forces discipline, i.e. putting the airplane
    _precisely_ where you want it at all times.  It also gets you used to
    the competition regimen which stands you in good stead for _any_ other
    type of competition, even fun-flies.
    
    3. Pattern also teaches you consistency, the ability to repeat a good
    performance time after time.  This is one of the most important skills
    any competition flier can have...and it's probably the hardest to
    acquire.  I _still_ have a problem with it on occasion.
    
    Even if you don't care to become a serious pattern competitor, I
    recommend learning it and entering a few competitions as the things
    learned are directly applicable to any other facet of RC you might
    prefer, even (as I said before) sport/Sunday flying and fun-flies.
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    
    
    	I've been building a pair of LA-1 pattern ships this winter.  I'd
    had a note detailing their progress in the other file but it's been
    deleted so I figure I'll now post updates in here from now on...
    
    
    	It's been awhile since I'd worked on the LA-1.  I'd left the plane
    with the fuse almost complete only requiring installation of the
    horizontal stab, control cables and fuel system.  The stab,elevator and
    rudder had been completed except for fiberglas reenforcements to the
    dowl hardpoints.  The two wing panels were sheeted with the retract
    blocks installed and one LE and TE installed but not shaped on one
    wing panel.  This past week I finished moving back into the newly
    redone hobby room and pulled the LA-1 out of storage.  This weekend
    afforded me some long lost time to build and I took full advantage ot
    it.  To date I installed the LE & TE on the other wing panel. Shaped
    both of the LE & TE on each panel. Installed a sheet 1/4" wing tip,
    cut holes for the aileron servo boxes and installed them. I then
    marked out where the ailerons are cut from the wing panels and
    proceeded to cut into my clean sheeted panels.  It always takes a 
    little courage to cut into the panels but measuring twice and cutting
    does help.  I then took a ride to the hobby store with scale in hand
    and located the two lightest 1/4 x 2 x 36" sheets of balsa they had.
    This was stripped into sticks to be used as facing for the ailerons and
    the TE cut out in the wing.  Thises were then gluded and shaped.  The
    LE of the ailerons carved to a bevel and hinged.  Last night I took
    another trip to the store to buy some epoxy.  When I got home I set up
    the core saddles to glue the wing panels together.  This done a buddy
    showed up with his bike and we shot the shit about planes.  He's in the
    process of finishing two scratch build pattern planes from a local
    pilot and designer called "Foxfires".  They are beauties!!!!  If not
    for all of the added work I'd have considered building them but...
    After a hour we checked the wing only to find I'd goofed and glued the
    panels together with anhedral instead of the dyhedral.  Seems I'd
    placed the sheeted panels in the core saddles upside down.  A little
    work with an exacto knife and some tape and epoxy and the sheeted
    panels were back in the core saddles this time right side up.
    
    BOY THAT WAS CLOSE!!!
    
    Lated in the night I installed fiberglas hard points for the wing hold
    down bolts and fiberglased the bottom of the center section with 6"
    cloth and thin UFO.  I had to stop because I didn't have enough thin
    uFO to complete the top.  Today I'll stop by the store again and pick
    up a bottle on thin UFO to completed the fiberglasing.  I should also
    get to bolting the wing to the fuse if thinks work out.
    
    
    Tom

    
    	Last night was a bussy one and I dodn't get much of anything
    accomplished.  I went to the hobby store expecting them to be on
    their summer hours only to find that they start their summer hours
    June 1st.  Oh well...
    	Last night ended up being mow the lawn and house cleaning night
    so I didn't get to the workshop until 10:00 and really didn't feel
    like doing much.  I did get the top center section fiberglas installed
    using what I had left of the thin UFO and then finishing up with some
    thin ZAP.  It worked well without any compatability problems.  Other
    than that O broken off the belley pan hold down dowl for the fourth
    and final time.  I'll be installing a 1/4 turn fastener and wire hold
    down in place of the dowl.  Hopefully tonight will see the drilling
    of the wing hold downs.  This will leave the horizontal stab ( which
    is adjustable) and the radio left before finish.
    
    
    Tom

    OK,
    	Yesterday afternoon I got a call from my brother to play golf.
    Seeing as we don't get out all that much together I accepted and
    found myself on the first tee at 4:30 .  By the fourth hole we 
    could see lightning coming out of the clouds over the adjacent
    mountains.  By the next hole we decided to pack it in as conditions
    weren't getting any better.  Good thing, as western ma. was treated
    to 3" of rain over a two hour period.  Made getting home fun.
    
    	After cleaning up and such I retired to the hobby room to work on
    the LA-1.  In two hours I'd made five different hold down wires for
    a quarter turn hold down screw and none of them fit.  The sixth was
    a charm and that task was over.  I still need to remove it and secure
    the screw with CA to make sure it doesn't back out.  I then turned my
    attention to the wing mounting.  THis required me to remove some
    fibergals lay up from the LE of the wing saddle and after spending an
    hour measuring and remeasuring I was ready for the drill.  The one
    front hole drilled, the wing removed, the hole threaded and the wing
    reinstalled I was ready to pilot the second hole. This followed the
    same process for the front hole and I was on my last bolt hole. However
    I'd miscalculated and required that I relocate this through hole in the
    wing. This done I piloted the last hole and threaded it.  Trimmed the
    belly pan to miss the bolt heads and the job was finished.  All in time
    to watch the replay of the first round of golf at the Kemper Open shown
    at 11:00 PM.  Elapsed time was 4 hours.
    	Next is the horizontal stab.  Maybe tonight. However if it is
    tonight it will only get tack glued in as I always like to go back and
    check this at a later time before locking it in for good.  Then the
    radio gets installed and then finish.  I'd been debating what colors to
    finish this shipi in. I liked Pink and white and yellow and purple.
    I think I've settled on Pink on the bottom,LE and tip of the stab and
    wing. A white fuse with a pink stripe that flares at the tail into a
    fan and a three stripe accent of purple.
    
    
    Tom

    Last night after golf I got the 3ft ruler out and layed out the
    locations of the control wire exits on the fuse.  I'm using a
    pull/pull set up on the rudder and the two elevator halves. It's
    expected to reduce the overall weight and more especially the
    tail weight by 4 - 6 lbs.  I located where the elevator and rudder
    servos are planned for installation and the transfered th locations of
    the control horns. Using a straight edge I drew a line on the fues from
    the control horn to the servo.  The exits ended having to be moved
    slightly to accomidate some CF I have glued into the fiberglas fuse.
    I then used a dremel with a cut off saw to cut a 1 1/4" slot wide
    enough to accept a piece of the yellow inner pushrod material. Three
    inch pieces were cut and a 1/16 piece of music wire installed.  The
    tube was then fed into the slot until the outed end of the plastic came
    to rest at the edge of the cut slot.  The 1/16 wire was then pulled out
    until it reached the inside end of the plastic tube and then the wire
    was allowed to rest free handing off the end of the fuse.  This allowed
    me to apply pressure to the plastic tube to get it as straight against
    the inside of the fuse as possible.  The tubes were secured with thick
    UFO an kicker,  Then a fillet was formed using automotive puddy.  I
    left this to dry and will sand it tonight.
    
    
    
    Tom
    
    P.S.  Should start covering this week.
    
    
    

    
    THat should read   ( 4 - 6 oz.)  sorry :-)
    
    Tom

    
    
    Last night I got the puddy fillets to the cable exits sanded and
    smoothed out into the fuse.  I scrubbed the fuse and belly pan in the 
    bath tub ro remove some mold release that was still on these parts
    and then sanded the entire outside surface with 220 grit paper.
    This prepares these parts for the primer coat.  I'm going to make a
    rack set-up like Eric's (in one of the DECRCM videos) and then will
    get to priming the parts. Then it's puddy time to fill in any holes
    I may have missed. 
    
    I got an early Father's day present.  Even though we haven't got 
    kids we still exchange gifts on mothers day and fathers day.  I 
    got the X347 FM I'd been looking at these past few months.  It was
    really a big suprise.  I guess we both enjoy these holidays now
    seen as when and if we have little one's we probably won't have the
    time or money to enjoy them.
    
    This will go in the LA-1.  Hopefully it will fly later next week.
    
    
    Tom

    
    
    
    
    		I just got off of the phone with another noter and thought
    the conversation warranted typing.   We were talking about the fuel
    system I'm running in the LA-1 I'm finishing.
    
    
    		To start, I'm running a yS61 Long Stroke motor with a
    Performance Specialties piston and cylinder.  The YS is offen refered
    to as a "pumped" engine.  It isn't.  Rather it's a fuel injected
    engine.  The engine produces pressure that is sent to the tank. This
    pressure forces the fuel to the carb/injector where it is metered.
    The fuel set-up I'm using is as follows;
    
    	Starting at the fuel line exiting the tank, this line runs to one
    side of a Dubro fuel filler valve.  The other side of the valve runs to 
    the carb.  From the pressure side of the engine a line rund to a check
    valve.  From the check valve to a second Dubro fuel filler valve. Then
    from the second valve to the pressure side of the fuel tank.  To fill
    one first inserts a filler nipple (supplied with the valve) into the
    pressure side valve.  This nipple has a length of fuel line attached to 
    keep any fuel residue off of the ship.  This effectively purges the
    tank of any pressure within.  YS's run app. 10 PSI in the fuel tank.
    If you were to insert the fuel filler nipple/line into the fuel side
    valve you'd get a spray of fuel all over everything.  Once the pressure
    is exhausted the fuel filler valve is engaged and fuel pumped into the
    tank until it comes out the pressure valve side.  The pressure side 
    nipple is then removed followed by the fuel side nipple.  A couple of
    flips add some pressure to the tank and you're ready for a restart.
    
    That's how the system works. Some of the guys are attaching a small
    bottle to the pressure side nipple line to capture any over run of
    fuel when you're filling the system.
    
    
    Tom 

    Last night saw limited progress.  I used most of the time programming
    the 347 into the Calypso I was flying last year.  This plane had had
    a Galaxy 8 radio installed. Over the winter I sold the TX, keeping the
    RX,servos and RF module.  I intended to buy a 347 and didn't know if
    the Rf modules would be the same.  They are. 
    
    I did do some work planning where the charger jack would be installed
    into the side of the gals fuse and cutting a hole.  I also decided to
    install the switch by mounting it to a wood piece and glueing this to
    the underside of the pipe tunnel in front of the wing. It will be
    truned on and off with a wire.  This results in only a 1/16" hole in
    the glass fuse.  Today is PRIMER day.  Tomorrow should be COLOR
    (white) day. Sat. should be trim day with Sunday being used to mask
    off the canopy and paint it.  That will finish the fuse except for
    radio installation.  
    
    Tom 

		Well, It's been awhile since my last update on the LA-1
I've been building.  I was planning to be flying this bird today but
that didn't work out.  I got tied up getting ready for last weekend's
motorcycle races and had a problem with the fuse.  
		About two weeks ago I started the painting process. I'd
completed the priming and filling of any pinholes. Sunday I broke down
and painted the belly pan two coats of white.  Then I moved onto the 
fuse.  I got one thin coat on and left to play golf while that coat
dried.  Returning I found the fuse had fallen into the grass and was
covered.  I'd failed to make a rack like Eric's and now was paying for
it.  Well like I said last week I got side tracked making sure the bike
was ready for the ride up to Laconia.  Tuesday night I broke out the
electric sander and some paper and went to town on the fuse.  I ended
up sanding app 80% of the paint off of one side and 50% off of the other.
I then needed to redo some of the putty work and let it dry.  Last
night I finish sanded the putty and made a  rack something like Eric's.
		The rack is inspired by Eric's but a little different.
As space is an issue around my shop I made this rack so that it disassembles
in about thirty seconds so that it fits into a thin space in the closet.
I also have a different set-up for attaching the pivot points.  In the front
I's made a wooden duplicate of the plate type engine mount typically used with
the Loyd's rubber mounts and attached the dowl to the center of this.  In the
rear I've made a tongue set-up that attaches to the adjustable stab mounting
plates.
		With rack in hand I proceeded to the back yard and then
re-primed the fuse.  Originally I'd used lacquer as  primer and then sprayed
one thin coat of white Formula U so I needed to use another Formula U as
the new primer or else I'd have a compatibility issue on my hands.  I ended
up using some flat white Formula U I had.  This dried to a touch in about 30
minutes and I was able to add some spot putty to a few areas I'd missed.
Late last night these areas were sanded.  Hopefully tonight will be calm and
I can get the shinny white coat applied.  I should also start the covering
operating tonight. Maybe next weekend will see the first flight.  That is
if my 9601 servos came in for the ailerons...



							Tom

    
    
    Last night when I got home I was able to get one good thin (but
    covering) coat of shinny white Formula U on the fuse of the LA-1.
    It was then taken into the shop to dry without the help of the little
    flying critters that seem to love fresh paint. Latter in the evening
    I was able to mask off the canopy and paint it black. I then proceeded
    with making my decals.  To match the colors on the wings (Circus Pink
    and Plum Crazy monocote)  I've been dabbling with making trim decals
    from Trim monocote.  I have to say that so far they are working out
    great.  I have the main pink stripe added to the fuse from the spinner
    ring to just behind the TE of the wing.  This is a 5/8" stripe that
    starts as an arrow head in the front.  It goes from a 3" arrow head
    to a 5/8" shaft.  To compensate for the fact that trim monocote comes
    in only 36" lengths and my fuse is 56" long I've incorporated a set 
    of three purple racing stripes into the color scheme.  They are set up
    as a 1/2" stripe with a 1/2" space followed by a 3" stripe and the
    a 1/2" space followed by another 1/2" stripe.  These form a three bands
    that run around the fuse on a slight angle.  The fuse stripe of pink
    will be picked up after these racing stripes and run until about the
    LE of the horizontal stab.  At that point it will fan out over the
    vertical stab/rudder TE.  A few accent stripes, decals and some
    striping around the canopy and then I'll spray a light coat of clear
    Formula U to seal everything in.  This should serve to make them
    semi-perminant.  
    	
    The wing and horizontal stab will follow similar scheme's so I'll only
    describe the wing.
    
    The bottom of the wing and aileron will be covered in Circus Pink
    monocote.  The top of the aileron and most of the wing sill be white.
    A border of pink will surround the whits at the center section, Leading 
    edge and tip of the wing.  A similar racing stripe detail will be
    carried onto the wing about 2/3 out on each wing panel.
    
    
    
    Tom
    
    PS. I hope to finish the fuse striping tonight and start covering. The 
    plane could be finished by the end of the weekend.
    
    
    

    	I worked on the LA-1 again this weekend.  I was able to finish
    cutting all of the decals I'm making for the fuse.  These were then 
    installed.  It looked OK but was lacking something.  My lady took
    a peek and thought it looked "unfinished".  I pulled out the striping
    tape and ran a 1/16" blue stripe aroound the pink stripe on the fuse.
    I tries to keep a 1/16" gap between the two stripes so that the white
    would show in between.  Then I framed the black canopy with a 1/8"
    yellow stripe.  This greatly improved the finished look of the fuse.
    I still have to add my AMA number to the rudder or vertical stab and
    then the fuse will get a thin coat of clean to seal all of the decals
    onto the fuse.
    I also got one elevator covered and the entire stab covered.  This
    includes three racing stripes and the 1/16" blue pinstripe detail.
    All together there will be a total of 24 different pieces of monocote
    on the horizontal stab to make up the design.  I should get the second
    elevator finished tonight.  Then it's on to the wing. There will be
    24 pieces on that also. Maybe this weekend will see the maiden flight!
    
    
    Tom

    
    Last night after work,  Golf  and a meeting I had all of 30 minutes
    until the midnight bell rang and I had to get some shut eye.  I did
    manage to get the other elevator covered and finish, including the
    1/16" blue pin stripe.  She sure is looking fine.  I have a lodge
    meeting tonight so I don't expect to get more than 30 minutes on
    the plane.  I'll probably finish the prep work on the wing by painting
    the wheel wells and retract locations with black "Plastenamel".  If
    you've never tried this product I can recommend it. It does work great.
    Is compatable with all paints.  Even Formula U.  I just may make
    this sunday.
    
    
    Tom

    
    After a night off with other business I was able to get back to the
    bench if for only 1 hour.  I got the TE cut outs covered and one 
    bottom wing panel finished.  I still need to remove the covering from
    the retract location.  I then started to wonder if I'd have enough
    of the pink covering to finish the wing.  So I broke out the remaining
    roll and did some measuring.  I need three pieces 16.5 x 32.5 x 9 to
    finish the three remaining wing panel surfaces.  At first I thought 
    I didn't have enough but then I measured again. If you subtract the
    clean border on monocote the color measures exactly 25.75" in wided.
    16.5 + 9 = 25.5"  just enough for my needs with a safety margin of
    one additional panels just incase I make a mistake.  Hopefully tonight
    I'll be able to put in a few good hours on the covering of the wing.
    
    
    Tom

    LAst night was HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Boy,  Have to get the air conditioner installed...  I worked of the
    LA-1 wing getting the bottom completed.  Then I turned my attention
    on the top.  This begins with making a card stock template of the
    white inlay.  This done the inlat is cut.  You have to make sure to
    add app. 1/4" arount the perimeter of the inlay so that there's 
    something to overlap on with the next color.  I usually draw the
    template with the inlay size exact and then redraw the design with
    the border.  Then cut the template as redrawn with the border and
    then cut out the inlay for each wing panel.  Once the Inlays are
    installed it's safe to recut the template to the exact inlay size.
    This then is used to cut the border piece of covering with the
    appropriate overlay at the seams.  I was able to get onle panel 
    done to the point of having the inlay and the border pieces of covering
    installed and the other inlay on the other panel installed.  Then
    I had to break because of the heat.  I still need to finish the
    second wing panel and the ailerons, the racing stripes and the
    striping tape.  Looks like Sunday may not happen.  We'll see?
    
    
    Tom

    I worked on the LA-1 this weekend,  completing the wing covering and
    clearing the fuse.  The last item will be to finish covering the
    ailerons and then installing the control horns.  I need to pick up some
    of that coated kevlar cord if anyone knows where to buy it!  When I
    purchsed the horns fron tetra I thought cable came with them.  I found
    the horns sunday to find that cable was not included.  Oh well...
    
    
    Tom

    I took the afternoon off yesterday and put four good flights on the
    Calypso.  I met two of my pattern buddies up at the hadley Ma. field
    and se had an afternoon of pattern.  I had been having a pitching
    problem when I applied rudder. I'd thought it was to much dyhedral
    but found yesterday that I'd routed one rudder cable around the
    elevator pushrod.  This was giving me mixing of elevator and rudder
    each time I moved the rudder or elevator stick.  I'll be rerouting this
    tonight and this should help eliminate one issue.
    
    I worked a little on the LA-1 hinging the elevator and installing the
    hinges.  I still need to spend some quality time on her.  I think
    having to wait for the cable materials has cooled my "jets" a bit.
    Maybe I'll be able to get them restarted this long weekend.
    
    
    Tom

    
    This past week and one half has been a modified vacation.  I'd planned
    a few activities all of which were changed.  We ended up going away
    and as such I dod little to the LA-1.  I did get some work done.
    Presently the radio is 60% installed with the switch, charging jack,
    throttle servo, aileron servos, retract servo, rudder and elevator
    servos installed.  I have the tank rough installed and this will be
    finished once the battery and RX are in place. The engine had been
    mounted.  I still need to get back to the ailerons and cover them.
    I also need two Futaba FM extention cables for the aileron servos.
    I'm running Futaba 9601's in the aileorns.  Because the RX will be 
    secured in front of the tank under the pipe tunnel it became necessary
    to use extention cables on the rudder and elevator cables along with
    the aileron cables.  The servo tray for the elevator and rudder is
    actually make like two seperate servo trays.  Perhaps a bit more
    heavy than a side by side installation this split level set up allow
    all of the control cables from the tail to be routed to the center
    of the fuse.  I thought this would be better than having the cables on
    an angle.  No data to substanciate this, just a gut feeling. This tray
    is mounted into the fuse with silicone.   I also found some insulating
    tape made for hot water pipes.  It's an adhesive layer with a 1/8"
    foam backed by an aluminum facing.  App 2" wide.  A friend has
    installed it on his new ship which was having a heat problem.  To date
    the faom has held up to the heat.  He's  got it affixed to the wing
    with the aluminum surface facing the hot pipe.  No melting or
    discoloration.
    
    
    Tom

    
    This past weekend I got some finifhing time in on the La-1.  The radio,
    fuel system, and all of the control ste-ups are installed.  I only have
    one aileron to cover, install nad then connect to the servo.  I'll then
    spend a few nights setting up the plane to make sure the two aileron
    and then the two elevator halves move with equal throw.  This and a
    rough set-up for dual rates on the 347 and she'll be ready for a test
    flight. 
    
    I pulled out the bathroom scale.  I'm not sure of this scales accuracy
    but I weighted myself and then myself holding the plane.  The
    difference was 8 lbs.  Boy I hope that the scale is working correct!!
    
    
    Tom 

    I was able to put in a little work late last night.  I managed to
    finish covering the second aileron.  That finishes the covering task. 
    Probably the task I hate most!!  I could have stayed up and hinged the
    aileron to the wing but then, that's such an important item I thought
    it was best to wait until tonight.  Maiden flight may be wednesday
    after work. We'll see. 
    
    
    Tom

    
    
    
    
    
    
    
	I did something different with this building project.  I did a
    Kay Fisher and tried to keep track of what this plaen was costing me.
    Now granted there are a few I tems I had to buy or had tha didn't
    cost me any out of pocket expence at the time or are not yet completely
    used up but... it does give some indication as to what we have tied up
    in our "Toys":-)
                                                                      
    
    
    
    
	Listed below is a detailed listing of the items and quantity
required to complete construction of a new pattern ship the "LA-1"



	Item #		Description	Qty	Est. Cost    Purchased[?]
=============================================================================

	1	Basic Kit (RC City)	1	$ 240.00	Recieved
	2	Engine YS 61 LSRE	1	$ 267.00	Recieved
	3	Performance
		Specialties
		 Piston and sleeve      1	$  92.50	Recieved
	4	Vibra-Damp mount	1	$  20.00	Recieved
	5	1/4 x1.5 x 4 Ply mount	A/R			On hand
	6	Pair 2" light wheels	1 PR	$   8.00	"
	7	16 Oz fuel Tank		1	$   6.00	Recieved (MK)
	8	Pair Main retracts	1	$  40.00	"
		 B & D,Royal, ?
	9	1/8"dowl or brass tube  1	$   3.00	Purchased
	10	1/16 balsa  4-6#	20	$  20.00	Recieved 
	12      3/4" tail wheel		1	$   2.00	Purchased
	13	Hatori (Aurora)header   1	$  20.00	Recieved
	14	Hatori 650 tuned pipe	1	$  59.00	Recieved
	15	Tru Turn Spinner 2.5"   1	$  24.00	Recieved
	16	3/32" Plywood or CF	A/R	$   N/A		On Hand
	17	Ply Mounts 1 x1 x 1/4	3	$   N/A		On Hand	
	18	Small cable ties	A/R	$   N/A		Recieved
	19	Fiberglas CA glue	1 btl.	$   8.00	Purchased
	20	Flexable Pipe mount	1	$   7.00	"
	21	3/32nds music wire	A/R	$   2.00	"
	22	5/32nds wheel collars	2	$   1.00	On Hand
	23	4-40 x 3/4 bolts	1pkg	$   1.00	"
	24	1 x 3 x 12" 4-6# balsa  1	$   1.50	Purchased
	25	Formula U paint		1	$   5.50	On Hand
	26	Monocote		3	$  30.00	Purchased
	27	Monocote trim sheet	6	$   9.00	"
	28	Pin Striping		1	$   2.50	On Hand
	29	Dubro Fuel fillers	2	$  21.00	Purchased
	30	Prather Fuel Tubing	4'	$   6.00	Purchased
	31	APC Props 12/11		2	$  13.00	Purchased
	32	JR 347 Radio		1	$ 350.00	Gift
	33	Hinges			2pkgs	$   2.50	On Hand
	34	Control horns		4pkgs	$   8.50	Purchased
	35	Kevlar cord		10'	$    ?		On Hand
	36	Plastic Enamel 		1	$   3.50	"
						----------
				Total to Date  $ 1182.50

    
    	Last night was a real killer.  I was determined to get the lawn
    mowed and started when I got home. I broke (thankfully) for dinner and
    then proceeded to fight to get it finished (the AC felt so good !!!).
    Afterwards I was treated to a cool ice tea and sat down in the living
    room to cool down.  Next thing I knew it was 10:00 PM. It took me an
    good hour to clear the cobb webs from my brain. I was determined to get
    something done on the LA-1 so I proceeded to hinge the remaining
    aileron and connect the servo.  This done I was faced with having to
    start the set-up by balancing the plane side to side.  Without any
    help I decided to leave this till tonight.
    
    
    Tom

>>  balancing the plane side to side.  Without any help ...

    Tom, if you use the pendulum method of checking the balance, the
    side-to-side location of the CG is located at the same time.  The
    method is accurate and very, very easy.  See 547.*, especially 547.5 

    I have "recycled" my old pencils-on-a-board-with-knife-edge-erasers 
    rig that I used to use to find the CG.

    Alton who will move most of this to a building-the-LA-1 topic someday
    
    p.s.  Turn off the air conditioner fan while using this technique.  
          It is so delicate that any breeze screws it up.

    Thank's for the pointer.
    
    Tom

    
    	Last night I had an executive committee meeting to discuss our new
    field at Palmer so little was accomplished with the LA-1.  I did take a
    side trip on my way to the meeting and picked up two aileron extentions
    for the dual aileron servos I'm running.  These were installed late
    last night when I got home and the JR 347 set-up for the dual servos.
    I also ordered three exhaust extentions from Radio South out of
    Florida.  They're blue mailing them to me so hopefully I'll have them
    for the weekend.  If the weather clears up late Sat. or Sunday, maybe 
    I'll get in a few fligts on this new bird. 
    
    
    Tom

    
    Late friday night I got around to finishing up my LA-1.  The task at
    hand was to balance the plane.  I rigged up a set-up and found that she
    balanced side to side without any added weight. I checked this three
    times with the same result.  I then covered the wing tips that had been
    left exposed to facilitate the installation of some lead weight, hooked
    up the charger and retired for the night.
    
    With plane in hand and 2 hours to spare I hade it to a local field from
    which we do a little flying.  I then found that I'd hooked up the
    pressure and fuel line backwards.  With that fixed I fired up the YS
    and set the high speed needle.  I flew one uneventfull flight and then
    had to make an apointment.
    
    Sunday I made it back to the field for some trimming flights.  I put in 
    two good flights setting the rudder and finding that I have a bit too
    much right engine thrust.  This plane flies better than any other plane
    I've ever had.  This week will see some additional trimming flights and
    then some serious practice can start.
    
    I disassembled her last night and checked her out 100% for anything.
    Everything looked good and she's back on the charger.
    
    
    Tom

    I put three flights on the LA-1 yesterday.  I still have to seal 
    the ailerons and then bump up their throw.  Roll rate is a little
    slow.  I had to lean out the pump about 1/16 turn to keep the engine
    from loading up.  Now there's a smooth transition from idle to full
    throttle.  This plane stall turns about the best I've evern seen.
    It's really difficult to miss the stall turn.  When the timing is off 
    and you get on the rudder early or late an application of down elevator
    keep her from floping over. Done right the stall is on the wing tip
    with good straight up and down verticles without needing any down
    elevator in the down verticle.  My hang up is inverted manuavers.
    Flying inverted is one thing, but flying inverted manuavers WELL
    is an entirely different ball game.  I'm going to switch to an APC
    11/12 prop and see how the engine runs.  See if I can get a little
    (500) bit more RPM's.  Should be ready for a pattern contest in two
    weeks in Easton Pa.  Any noters from that area?  I'd appreciate
    directions from CT through NY,NY and into Easton Pa.
    
    
    Tom

    With one of my LA-1's flying it's time to start bringing some attention
    to the other airframe.  Actually when I stopped working on this kit
    it's really more of a kit than an airframe.  SO, I'm in the planning
    stages trying to figure out how to take 6-16 ozs. out of the
    construction of the second LA-1.  I flying LA-1 stands in at 8 lbs.
    dry.  
    
    To start I've decided to try coring out the foam wing cores for the
    wing, stab and rudder.  This should yeils app. 5 ozs. of reduction.
    This also takes into account a different mounting method for the 
    retracts and some carbon fiber for the wing stiffeners.  The landing
    gear are going to utilize Magnalite half ribs to secure the mounting
    rails for the retracts.  This will replace the std. 1/4" plywood
    landing gear plates and 1/4" dowl supports.  I'm going to spot
    installing adjustable stabs and go back to a fixed stab.  I've found
    that unless your planning to do some travel in airliners the flying
    stab isn't necessary.  If you do your homework when you're installing
    the stab you end up never changing the stab incidence.  So the only
    advantage of the adjustable stab becomes on of being able to remove it
    when your crating the plane for travel.  The next idea concerns
    sheeting the cores.  I plan to eliminate the epoxy from the sheeting
    under the cored wings.  No sense puting epoxy where nothing is being
    glued to it.  I'm toying of going with a 1/8" plywood firewall and
    using the Magnalite for servo trays. 
    
    Tom

    
    Well I'm off...  that is to say I'm heading down to Lakehurst NJ
    tomorrow morning at 4:00 AM to attend a Pattern Contest.  This is 
    a one day event so I should be back late Sat. night to get some sleep 
    so I can be awake for the airshow in Westfield on Sunday.  I've
    never been to lakehurst so I as yet cannot comment on the flying site
    or how they'll run the contest.
    
    I'd hoped this would be a goot year for pattern with the LA-1 but
    things didn't work out.  I'll post a report monday with details.
    
    If anyone's interested there will be one more contest this year in the
    area flown out of Westover in Chicopee Ma.  Next yeras Nat's site.
    If anyone from the area decides to attend to spectate bring a plane
    any plane anad your AMA card.  That way you'll be assured of getting 
    on the base.  If they ask, you're competing PERIOD.  In the past
    they've gotten strict about letting people in to spectate.
    
    
    
    Tom
    
    Good flying this weekend and keep them in one piece

    Tom, just don't think about the Hindenburg while your there at
    Lakehurst. 8^)
    
    steve

    
    Thank's Steve for the helpful hint...
    
    
    When I got home on friday I found a note from the contest director
    in the mail with instructions how to get to the site.  I packed up
    the van with sun cover,chair,and flight box.  I made sure that the
    two glow drivers and the RX/TX batteries were on charge.
    
    No bright but definately early I awoke to the alarm at 3:00 AM and
    proceeded to get ready and finish loading the van with the plane 
    and a collor of coke.  I was off...
    
    Four and one half hours latter I rolled in the site at Lakehurst NJ.
    The club flies off of an abandoned landing zone in the south west
    corner of the base.  Once I unloaded the gear I was off to McDonalds
    for some breakfast and then back for the pilots meeting.  I later met
    one of the local flyers from Orange Ma. and we agreed to make the
    next trip down here together.  That done we agreed to call for each 
    other.  His first flight placed him in solid third.  Mine placed me in
    fifth out of eleven.  KNowing that we were going to fly 5 rounds I
    knew there was a change for improvements. The weather was overcast with
    lots of haze.  A hanger app 1/2 mile away was becoming lost in the
    haze. The contest director made a judgement to fly round two and then
    see what happened.  We flew round two with improving scores but no 
    improvement in the standings.  Then during the end of the round the
    CD got a call from a tower warning of thunderstorms in the area and he
    decided to call it a meet. By the time everything was settled out and
    the scores tallies and the winners determined and the raffles run it
    ended up we could have flown a third round. By this time the
    Thunderstorms had passed (without showing up) and the haze had cleared
    to the best fly of the day.  It was now 3:30 in the afternoon and the
    awards began.  For fifth place I won a box of 5 minute epoxy. Better
    than going home empty handed. We hit the road for home about 4:15
    and reached the Tapenzee bridge in time to get log jammed with traffic.
    I ended up getting home after a stop for a bite to eat at 10:30 sat.
    night. Boy a long day.  
    
    It was fun and they are planning another contest for September 21st.
    Probably will go.
    
    
    
    Tom

    
    
    	I sat down with a fellow flyer this past sunday evening and during
    the evenings discussions he brought up the subject of some carbon
    spars the guys are making to reenforce their Q500 races.
    
    	What they are doing us cutting 1/8" balsa into 3" x 3" squares.
    these squares are then glued edge to edge recreating the original
    sheet but transposing it into a 36" sheet of end grain balsa. Then 
    the image of the spar is drawn on the sheet to indicate it's height.
    A piece of carbon fiber is then glued alond the upper edge of the spar
    and the bottom edge. The spar is cut out and a second layer of CF is
    glued to the opposite side. 
    
    	Their spar shape is a little different to accept the dyhedral of
    the wing. the spar is a constant height for the 24" of the panel and
    then the bottom edge tapers upwards to accomidate the other wing panel 
    and the dyhedral angle. The slots cut within the foam cores are offset
    by 1/8". The slot is also 1/4" wide for the first 12 inches and then
    stepped down to 1/8" for the remainder of the core.  One spar is then
    glued into each foam core and then the cores sheeted. WHen the two wing
    panels are joined in the center the 12" tapered stub of each spar
    slides into the corresponding slot in the opposite panel.  They end up
    with a full length spar and an added thickness of 1/4" of spar at the
    center of the wing.  He commented that using this spar then have never
    folded a wing in a corner.  Even with the newer more powerful Nelson
    engines.
    
    
    Tom

What?

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    
    
    
    
    
    
		Listed below are the 1992 pattern flight schedules
    for the Novice,Sportsman and Advanced classes.  to the side of
    each maneuaver is a (U) or (D) indicator to specify an Upwind
    or Downwind flight direction.  Also listed is the (K= ) K-factor
    for each maneuaver.  This is used during the scoring tabulation
    to add weight to the more complex maneuavers.
    
    		If anyone wants a copy of this laminated, just send me
    a vaxmail message with the class you want and a return address.
    
    Tom
    
    
    
    
 NOVICE		            1992
=========================================	
 1.  Takeoff			(U) (K=1)
 2.  Straight FlightOut	  	(U) (K=1)
 3.  Procedure Turn	 	    (K=2)
 4.  Straight Flight Back  	(D) (K=1)
 5.  Stall Turn		  	(U) (K=2)
 6.  Immelmann Turn		(U) (K=1)
 7.  3 Inside Loops		(U) (K=3)
 8.  One Horizontal Roll	(D) (K=1)
 9.  Landing			(U) (K=1)

(U) means upwind 		
(D) means downwind		
=========================================		

    
 SPORTSMAN	            1992
=========================================
 1.  Takeoff			(U) (K=1)
				(E)
 2.  Double Stall Turn		(U) (K=3)  
 3.  1/2 reverse Cubin 8	(T) (K=1)
 4.  Cuban 8			(D) (K=2)
				(E)
 5.  Immelmann Turn		(U) (K=1)
 6.  Split "S"			(T) (K=1)
 7.  3 Inside Loops		(U) (K=3)
				(E)
 8.  Straight Inverted Flight	(D) (K=1)
 9.  Stall Turn			(T) (K=1)
10.  One Reverse Outside Loop	(U) (K=3)
				(E) 
11.  3 Horizontal Rolls		(D) (K=3)
				(E)
12.  Landing			(U) (K=1)

(U)upwind   (D)downwind    (T)turn around  
(E)exit and/or enter scoring box
=========================================

 ADVANCED		     1992
=========================================	
 1.  Takeoff			(U) (K=1)
     Enter Box			(E)
 2.  Double Immelmann		(U) (K=2)
 3.  Half Reverse Cuban 8	(T) (K=1)
 4.  Slow Roll			(D) (K=3)
 5.  Stall Turn			(T) (K=1)
 6.  Top Hat with Half Rolls	(U) (K=3)
 7.  Humpty Bump with Options	(T) (K=1)
 8.  Four Point Roll 		(D) (K=4)
 9.  Stall Turn with Half Rolls (T) (K=2)
10.  Cobra Roll with 1/2 Rolls	(U) (K=2)
11.  Immelmann Turn		(T) (K=1)
12.  Three Inside Loops from
     the top			(D) (K=3)
13.  Split "S"			(T) (K=1)
14.  Square Loop		(U) (K=2)
     Exit Box			(E)
15.  Landing			(U) (K=1)

(U)upwind   (D)downwind    (T)turn around  
(E)exit and/or enter scoring box
=========================================

From the usenet today.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Gi Kim) writes:
|> Is there anybody out there who built Summit III and/or MK's Aurora 60?
|> I am considering to build a patternship and narrowed down to the above
|> two kits(Summit III is from R/C Cities).  If you've built and flown either
|> one of these, I would like to hear about your likings and dislikings on it.
|> If you have suggestions on other pattternships, I will gladly consider your
|> advice.

I have built and flown both of these airplanes and my choice is:

		The SUMMIT III!

It is a much better flying airplane than the Aurora.

In terms of easiest to build, both airplanes are difficult.  In
general, the Summit III is easier except for the plug in wing.  The
Aurora is more difficult to build straight because of the built up
wing.


|> Also, I have a lot of curiocities on the process of building, finishing, 
|> configuring the radio channel mixings, and etc. for patternships, and 
|> it has not been easy to get detailed info. on it.  If you know of any
|> publications, magagines, or video tapes, I will appreciate it very much if
|> you let me know how to get them. 

I recomend joining the NSRCA (National Society of Radio Controlled
Aerobatics.)  To join send the following information: Name, Address
(Street, City State, Zip), AMA Number to:

			Suzi Frohreich, Treasurer
			P.O. Box 41310
			Pheonix, AZ 85080

Include $20 for dues.  The best thing about joining NSRCA is the
monthly newsletter, K-Factor.  The newsletter includes tips on
building and flying pattern planes.  If nothing else, it can get you
pointed to people who can help you build a pattern plane.
_________________________________________________________________
 Mike Walpole     |      This space       |      [email protected]
 Mead Data Central|     accidentally      |...!uunet!meaddata!msw
 Miamisburg, OH   |      left blank!      |
(513)865-1086     |      AMA 273066       |


++++++++++++++++++++++ The full NEWS header follows +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
News Article 17384
Path: nntpd.lkg.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!uunet!meaddata!msw
From: [email protected] (Michael Walpole)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: seeking advices on choosing pattern kits
Date: 1 Sep 1993 19:43:29 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Lines: 75
Distribution: na
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: daedalus.meaddata.com

From the usenet today.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

For '94 - '95 the Novice, Sportsman and Advanced Patterns have
changed.  If you're interested in Pattern and want to give it a try,
the Novice, Sportsman and Advanced patterns are listed here.  Even if
you never intend to compete you might still want to try the maneuvers
listed here.

All of thse maneuvers, except takeoff and landing, are flown in the
box.  The box in Pattern isn't really a box, but it's a 120 degree
triangle with a center line.  It looks sort of like this:

         \           |           /
            \        |        /
               \     |     /
                  \  |  /
                     x

You stand at the x with the judges directly behind you.  Center
maneuvers are aligned on the centerline, turnarounds have to stay
within the box.  The farther away the model is flown from the pilot,
the bigger the box is.  But, be careful, too far out and it's hard to
see the model.  How far out to fly is really a function of the size
and speed of the airplane.

Anyway, enough of that.  The new sequences are as follows:

Novice:
#   Maneuver              (U)pwind/
                          (D)ownwind
                              K-Factor
1.  Takeoff               (U) K=1
2.  Straight flight out   (U) K=1
3.  1/2 Reverse Cuban 8   (U) K=1
      (scored turnaround)
4.  Straight flight Back  (D) K=1
5.  Stall Turn            (U) K=2
6.  Immelmann Turn        (U) K=2
7.  Three Inside Loops    (U) K=3
8.  One Horizontal Roll   (D) K=1
9.  Landing               (U) K=1
		       Total K=13

The only changes here are that the procedure turn was changed (# 3) to
a 1/2 Reverse Cuban 8 and that all maneuvers, except takeoff and
landing, are now done in the box.  There are unscored turnarounds
between maneuvers 4,5,6,7 and 8.


Sportsman:

1.  Takeoff                               (U) K=1
2.  Double Stall Turn                     (U) K=3
3.  1/2 Reverse Cuban 8                   (U) K=1
      (scored turnaround)
4.  Cuban 8                               (D) K=2
      (unscored turnaround between 4 & 5)
5.  Immelmann Turn                        (U) K=2
6.  Split S                               (D) K=1
      (scored turnaround)
7.  Three Inside Loops                    (U) K=3
      (unscored turnaround between 7 & 8)
8.  Straight Inverted Flight              (D) K=1
9.  Stall Turn                            (D) K=2
      (scored turnaround)
10. One Reverse Outside Loop              (U) K=3
      (unscored turnaround between 10 & 11)
11. Three Horizontal Rolls                (D) K=3
12. 1/2 Cuban 8                           (D) K=1
      (scored turnaround)
13. Square Loop                           (U) K=2
14. Landing                               (U) K=1
                                       Total K=26

Maneuvers 12 and 13 are added over the existing '92 - '93 pattern.


Advanced:

1.  Takeoff                      (U) K=1
2.  Double Immelmann             (U) K=2  Center Maneuver
3.  1/2 Reverse Cuban 8          (U) K=1  Scored Turnaround
4.  Slow Roll                    (D) K=3  Center Maneuver
5.  Stall Turn                   (D) K=2  Scored Turnaround
6.  Top Hat w/ 1/2 Rolls         (U) K=3  Center Maneuver
7.  Humpty Bump w/ Options       (U) K=2  Scored Turnaround
8.  4 Point Roll                 (D) K=4  Center Maneuver
9.  Stall Turn w/ 1/2 Rolls      (D) K=2  Scored Turnaround
10. Cobra Roll w/ 1/2 Rolls      (U) K=2  Center Maneuver
11. Immelmann Turn               (U) K=2  Scored Turnaround
12. Six Sided Outside Loop       (D) K=4  Center Maneuver
13. Split S                      (D) K=1  Scored Turnaround
14. Avalanche                    (U) K=3  Center Maneuver
15. Top Hat w/ 1/4 Rolls         (U) K=2  Scored Turnaround
16. Triangle Rolling Loop        (D) K=4  Center Maneuver
17. 1/2 Square Loop w/ 1/2 Roll  (D) K=2  Scored Turnaround
18. Three Turn Spin              (U) K=3  Center Maneuver
19. Landing                      (U) K=1
                             Total  K=44

Maneuver 12 changes from 3 Outside Loops (from the top) to a Six Sided
Outside Loop (from the top.)

Maneuver 14 changes from a Square Loop to an Avalanche.

Maneuvers 15 - 18 have been added.

Masters:  The pattern hasn't changed it is still the '88 - '91 FAI
pattern.

FAI:  For '93 - '94 the "B" pattern will be flown for preliminaries
and the "C" pattern flown for finals.

In all cases, except Novice and Masters, the patterns have been made
harder.  Advanced slightly more so than Sportsman.  In fact, what's
happened is that the gaps from Sportsman to Advanced and Advanced to
Masters have been closed.

If you've read this far and you are thinking about competing, but
don't know what to build and fly, then this section is for you.

For Novice, just about anything that flys well and is aerobatic in a
40 - 60 sized airplane will work.  This includes planes like Sweet
Sticks, Ugly Sticks, Kaos (any in the series), and Ultra Sports.  A 60
sized airplane will be a little better than a 40 sized plane because
it can be flown farther out and will be easier to keep in the box.
(Of course the only place the box really matters in novice is with
maneuvers 2,3 & 4.)

For Sportsman, a Super Kaos 60 or Ultra Sport 60 will do.  In fact if
you plan only to compete at the local level, you can be quite
competitive with one of these.  If you plan to go to the Nationals and
be competitive, you'll want to have an LA-1, LA-2, Desire, Nemesis,
Jeckyll or Summit III, or something like it.  These are all 60 sized
pattern planes and you'll want to soft-mount the engines and use a
muffled tuned pipe.  (If you go to the Nats, everyone in Pattern must
be below 96db at 3 meters.)

For Advanced, the Desire, Nemesis and Jeckyll will be OK.  However,
more and more 4 cycle airplanes are showing up.  I just came from a
contest where there 6 out of 11 airplanes in Advanced were 1.20 4
cycles.  By the time a pattern competitor gets to Advanced they will
probably have a good idea of what they are looking for in a pattern
airplane.  From here on up, the competition gets real tough, so it's
important to fly a plane you are comfortable with.

Sorry this is so long - I just got a little carried away.
_________________________________________________________________
 Mike Walpole     |      This space       |      [email protected]
 Mead Data Central|     accidentally      |...!uunet!meaddata!msw
 Miamisburg, OH   |      left blank!      |
(513)865-1086     |      AMA 273066       |


++++++++++++++++++++++ The full NEWS header follows +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
News Article 17383
Path: nntpd.lkg.dec.com!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!meaddata!msw
From: [email protected] (Michael Walpole)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: New sequences in Pattern for '94
Date: 1 Sep 1993 19:06:53 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Lines: 150
Distribution: usa
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: daedalus.meaddata.com

    There may be enough interest in pattern for our club to have a pattern
    presentation done within the next few months.  I approached Bob Broeder
    about doing something, and he sort of agreed.  But I think when I say
    pattern, I'm looking for an introduction to the subject more than an
    in-depth nitty-gritty analysis.
    
    Our membership is mostly sports flyers who seem glad to get to the
    field as often as possible and just bore a few holes in the sky.  But
    when you think about it, many pilots would benefit from a kind of
    proficiency program that helped them improve their skills.  So what
    we're thinking about is the idea of using the concepts and precision of
    pattern as a model for even newcomers to use to improve their flying
    skills.  If we have a pattern presentation, it might be positioned as
    something every pilot should think about as a way of improving skills
    even if one never goes to a pattern competition.
    
    If anyone is willing to come to one of our meetings to discuss
    this, let me know.
    
    Thanks,
    Joe

    The whole idea behind pattern is control and precision.
    
    Even if your just boring holes in the sky, control is no less
    important. Look at it this way, there are many clubs that have a
    PRE-SOLO "test" that comprises about 75% of the novice pattern routine.
    This is PRE-SOLO mind you.
    
    I guess what I'm saying is that there IS a benefit to being able to fly
    a pattern routine even for people that have no interest in competition.
    A LOT of people that think there pretty decent pilots would be VERY
    surprised at the trouble they had doing the novice pattern routine.
    The benefit is that you learn control and become a better pilot.
    
    Besides, sport flyers still like to go up and do "maneuvers". So it's
    fun learning how to do a stall turn, an outside loop, and a cuban 8 
    among others.

    Re: -.1
    
    Right!  That's it in a nutshell.  So I believe that by giving pilots a
    vision of being able to execute that perfect maneuver they always do in
    their mind, they will want to get more instruction on how its done. 
    And that's pattern training.
    
    I really want to move ahead with this for our club.
    
    
    -Joe
    

    Joe,
    	The Wring-it-Out tapes by Dave Patrick are a source of good
    material.  They are well done and go into Plane Setup as well as the
    How To of many basic Pattern manuvers.  I would recommend that anyone
    interested in pattern should go to a good contest and see what it's
    like.  It's much different than any other RC event.  The equipment is
    different and the precision flying is really very different than sport
    flying.  It isn't for everyone but it teaches discipline and really
    improves your flying skills.
    
    Charlie
    

>  Similiar/same planes are being advertised in K-Factor 
>  for $1800 or more. Asking price for either of the above 
>  is $1100 firm.
> 
> Reason for selling.......Owner is getting out of pattern.
> 
> Contact Sonny Martel at.........

Just saw this go by on the rec.models.rc.air list/file. Did Sonny get the
glider bug that bad this summer?

    Gliders and heli's I guess. Actually, Sonny is one of those guys that
    is into a little bit of everything.
    
    He apparently is getting out of pattern, but still has the gliders,
    heli's, and a couple or 3 giant scale planes. He was telling me about a
    big Byrons corsair he just flew for the first time recently. I think he
    said it had a Sachs 4.2 in it or something like that.

Rumor has it Jim C was in Charlie Watt's basement working on his Boxer two
weekends ago...

And there I thought he had perfected Balsa-Stop 8^)

    Jim C. does in fact, have a Boxer 60 sitting in Charlie Watt's work
    shop that is well along in the building process. In fact, you can
    probably say that all of the major construction is done and the plane
    is into it's finishing work.
    
    I do believe though that Jim can retain his patent on Balsa-slow/stop.
    You see, he shows up at Charlie's with a 6 pack which seems to be the
    key to putting "Charlie" into building mode. 8^)
    
    Plus, even when it's completed, there's still the problem of getting
    Jim C. to FLY the thing. 8^)
    
    
    Steve

I find I get better results going into building mode WITHOUT the beer 8^)

Maybe he can get Charlie to fly it too??

    
      Bottom line, its a win for Charlie. What he really did was build
    himself a backup pattern plane that Jim C. financed!  AND he gave
    Charlie beer to do it!
    

    Charlie's also building an AcroWot. Think he'll let me "try it" ?????

    
       He will probably let you try it before he lets ME try it! :)

    Just got off the phone with Eric H. (the Evil one). He's up in the area
    this week to take his citizenship test. Yes, lord help us, Eric
    Henderson is going to become a US Citizen. Now I'm convinced they'll
    let ANYONE into this country. 8^)
    
    Anyway, on the way up, he stopped off at Pete Francis's field in 
    Connecticut to visit and do some flying. He had put about 4 or 5
    flights on the Griffn (his 120 pattern plane that he's been winning
    contests with all season) and was also doing some "relaxation" stuff
    (as he put's it) like doing rolls on takeoff. Seems that it was getting
    late in the afternoon and he took off, did a roll, and all of a sudden
    realized that he was flying directly into the sun. Not across it, but
    directly into it. The only time he saw the plane after that was just
    before it crashed. Wing is broken in half. Bottom of the fuse is all
    torn out, basically it's dead.
    
    Being a little further south than us, he's got 3 more contests to fly
    in. He figures he'll have to put the SC into the old 11 pound Dalotel
    and use that.