Conference napalm::musclecars

To kick this off, I'll document the Plastic Bullet - an '85 TPI Vette
with 4+3 trasmission.

This car first ran at Epping in early '86, and went mid 14s and about 97
mph (bests of 14.42 & 98.25) while bone stock. Since then I've made and
rescinded a number of changes, and the car is now edging down toward the
mid 13s (13.61 best), at around 102 mph (103.19 best). Note that the current
best speed equates to just under 104 mph in 1986 terms, because of a change
in the way 1/4 mile speed is currently measured. The car is still smog legal,
with a completely stock exhaust system, and the engine and drivetrain are
still completely stock as far as hard parts are concerned, with the exception
of a Centerforce Dual friction clutch & pressure plate.

Changes from Bowling Green Standard are as follows:

INTAKE
Center section of filter lid cut out.
*K & N air filter element
Screens removed from mass airflow sensor.
Throttle-body airfoil from TPIS.

IGNITION
Jacobs high-dielectric distributor cap and rotor with brass fittings.
High performance plug wires (spiral wound) from TPIS
Bosch Platinum plugs (HR9BPY) gapped at .060".
Plugs indexed, with side electrodes aimed "straight up".

FUEL
TPIS adjustable regulator - pressure set at stock '86-'88  Vette settings of 
about 43 lbs at engine shutoff, and 45 lbs at idle with vacuum disconnected.
Sunoco "Ultra" gasoline - 94 octane.

ENGINE SETTINGS
*Hypertech Stage II ("Thermomaster") ECM replacement chip.
8 degrees initial spark advance (6 is stock).
*160 degree thermostat.
Throttle position sensor at .60 v (idle), and 4.49 v (full throttle).

MISCELLANEOUS
*Crank pulley (22% underdrive) from Auto Specialties.

LUBRICATION
Engine oil - Mobil 1 (4 qts 5W30, 1 qt 15W50).
1 application of Slick 50.
Red Line synthetic lubricants (75W90NS in transmission, 75W90 Gear oil in
the differential, with no GM friction modifier).

DRIVELINE
Centerforce Dual Friction clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing.
GM "Bow Tie" pilot bearing (needle bearing from GM diesel applications.

SUSPENSION/TIRES
Koni shocks.
*Michelin XGT+ sneakers - size 315/40ZR16.

*These items are the changes which made the most obvious differences when
installed.

In any event, the current mods are in the car because they seem to work, and
the car routinely shows very low smog numbers, while averaging 21.2 mpg for
the last 51K miles, including Epping time. Most of the mods are worth very
little by themselves, but they collectively add up. I have tried other mods,
inluding ignition and exhaust changes, but found them to be either
non-effective, or they weren't effective enough for me to put up with side
effects such as elevated cockpit noise, or lean low-speed running.

Most of these changes will work well on nearly any TPI vehicle.

Bruce

OK, the Augenstein clan is new to the Ford camp, and others (particularly
Eric Goehl) know more than I do, but here are some starters.

ENGINE
Fenderwell air horn removed.
K & N filter element.
Ram air kit (?).
Initial timing at about 13 degrees BTDC (up from 10), or whatever it'll
take without ping.
Indexed plugs at stock or near-stock gap.
Synthetic oil.
3-way "street" engine pulleys.

CHASSIS
Sub-frame connectors.
Shock-tower brace.
G-brace.
(All this improves handling, ride, and off-the-line traction.)

DRIVETRAIN
Synthetic lubricants.

I'll probably learn some more over time, but that's it for me at the moment.
Eric may want to share some secrets, though :-).

Bruce

    
    
    	Let's make sure that the subjects addressed in this note deal with
    cars that are undeniable muscle. Not to say that hasn't happened so
    far, lets just keep it that way.
    
    	Just so far as the cars discussed are at least as muscular as Randy
    SKAGIT::ELLISON's '85 Capri. (WOW!)
    
    	Keep the spirit!
    
    	Dave

    If we use Ellison's '85 Capri as a baseline cutoff for late model
    muscle, there won't be anybody left to "discuss" thangs; I beleive
    we are talking a 13.63 ET in street trim.  Now instead of an unofficial
    Bruce Augenstein monologue, we'll have the official Bruce Augenstein
    monologue :-).  If fact, why not change the name of the note - say,
    "The Bruce Augenstein Note - One man and his Late Model muscle."
    
    Actually, I'm pretty confident a 13.63 cuts out 90% of the older muscle
    too.  Of course, we will never know for sure because the real muscle
    cars never go to the strip and put honor on the line (starting line).
    Actually, had it not been for the couple hundred timeslips I have, I'd
    be 100% confident that I owned a 13.00 second quarter mile pony :-).
    
    Eric

Just so you understand, Dave. We've debated long and hard in the previous
file about what a musclecar actually is, or is not, without any serious
agreement. Opinions ranged from Skip's idea of incredible low-end and mid-range
grunt (of course he'd say that, with his 440 Mopar :-) ), to others saying
it had to be '60s or early '70s (thereby neatly getting 'round the hot 283
and 348 Chevies, among other things, of the '50s), to an opinion shared
by many in the old note 42. Namely:

Anything with a sea-level timeslip of 15.5 or below is muscle.

That includes little-wienie 2.0 turbo Eagle Talons, as well as 5.7 IROCs
and 5.0 Mustangs, plus a *bunch* of other cars that may not have big engines,
but which will run heads up with most of the musclecars of the '60s and '70s.
That's what we have concentrated on in note 42 of the old file, and what we'll
concentrate on in this note.

Agreed?

Bruce

PS - Randy's Capri will blow away most of the cars spoken of in this file.

     We've allowed notes on 340 Buicks and other iron not generally regarded
     as musclecar material. I believe that to be OK, since there is a body
     of knowledge that the participants have that embodies the right "spirit",
     whether it be around 340 Buicks or Hemi "Baccarudas" (sic). We're in
     this file because we tend to be "doers" more than talkers, even in
     comparison to file members with traditional iron. WE'LL KEEP THE SPIRIT
     WITHIN THE BOUNDS STATED.

    Time slips with an ET 15.5 or less...I love it!

    /tb/

     
    
    This isnt exactly a musclecar,
    
    I got to take a drive in a 91 Gmc Cyclone Pickup this Week
    
    This thing is an animal
    4.3 liter supercharged V-6
    Computerized all-wheel drive w/ 16 in wheel
    
    A friend of mine works at a GMC dealer and got to take it overnight
    before it was put on the showrroom floor. I hear it will do high 13
    quarters straight from the factory. The all wheel drive system will not
    let the tires spin off the line ( We sure tried though )
    
    
    sticker price of 26,000...Ouch!!..........................Dennis

And it goes right here in this note, unless there is enough traffic for
a "Late Model Muscletrucks" note.

Bruce

    
    
    	I was kinda kidding when I used Randy's Capri as a cuttoff. But I
    think you get the idea.
    
    	No Wimp Cars! (Of course 'Wimp' is a subjective term...)
    

We use that term a fair bit (amongst ourselves) when looking at some
examples of that '60s and '70s iron :-).

Bruce

    RE: .7
    
    It's SYCLONE.  And yes it breaks all the rules for MUSCLECARS (and this
    notesfile) 
    	  i.e.  NO BIG BLOCK, NO NOISE, IT HAS OPTIONS-a/c,ps,pb,pw,pdl,etc
    		NO 4 SPEED-manual, NO HEADERS, NO BIG HORSEPOWER RATINGS, 
    		NO BIG TORQUE RATINGS, NO BIG DIEHARD FAN FOLLOWING, NO
    		BIG CARBURETOR, NO BIG GEARS
    
    except it drives in off the street and runs very low 13 sec quarters 
    (COMPLETELY STOCK) and Twelves with a "chip" change.  Uh oh that dirty
    "c" word.
    

    You say that you'd like to have a Syclone, but really need more
    seating? Hold onto your hat, there's a new ride coming to town!
    GMC will offer the Syclone drivetrain in the S15 Jimmy for '92. It's to
    be named 'Typhoon'. I haven't seen the price yet, but I'd guess it will
    be near $30K juding by the difference between the pickup and Jimmy
    prices now.
    
    I also read that the standard 4.3 V6 is being upped from 160 to 210 hp
    for 92! It'll still use 'central fuel injection' (GM's terminology for
    TBI) but the intake manifold is changing, as well as the exhaust system.
    Them's pretty impressive numbers for a stock 262 cid V6!
    
    Harry
    

    I can't wait for them to drop that drivetrain into a ponycar body
    with a small block in it...what ride that'll be!
    
    /tb/
    

    Just a little update for those interested in the relationship between
    performance and a clean environment.
    
    I had my car inspected yesterday - a 1988 Mustang GT with speed density
    air measurement (not Mass Airflow).  It measured 0% for both Hydrocarbons
    Carbon Monoxide.  This is with the car in full race trim; which also
    happens to be everyday trim too.  I know the car is in good tune, however I
    was concerned about a couple of timing and mixture tweeks.

    Initial timing is at 14 degrees, up from 10.  The running fuel pressure
    is up from 39 PSI to 43 PSI.  And I am running underdrive pulleys that 
    slow the air pump 15%, among other wonderful things.  I also have a 180
    degree thermostat, down 13-20 degrees from the stock 193-200 degree
    thermostat.  I'm using 1 step colder spark plugs which might have caused
    a little more carbon buildup at low RPMs and idle.  Apparently not.
    The car has 76,000 miles on it, with the catalytic converters
    having less then 10,000.  Its nice to see that closed loop operation and
    the oxygen sensors are doing there thing.  Even though the above
    modifications have probably hurt WOT cleanliness,  its not all that
    significant.  99.99% of the time, the car is operating in closed loop mode
    and is keeping the mixture tuned by feedback from the oxygen sensors.
    
    Eric

    If someone has the time and patience, I would like to know what the
    difference is between closed loop and open loop for a TPI.  Some of
    the aftermarket chip makers cite their chips as operating in one or
    the other.  Is there a big deal for a chip to operate in closed
    loop or open loop?
    
    Ken P.

During normal operation, you want closed loop. What "closed loop" means
is that the computer is using feedback from various sensors (particularly
the oxygen sensor) to continually adjust the mixture and timing for most
efficient and "cleanest" operation. "Open loop" means the computer is
going strictly by a lookup table in ROM that the factory thinks will
fairly closely match the engine's needs, based on the input from fewer
sensors. For example, every cold start results in open loop running until
the oxygen sensor gets hot enough to light off and supply a reliable voltage
back to the computer.

At full throttle, the oxygen sensor is screaming "FULL RICH!" at the top of
its ability to do so, so the computer can't use it as more than a reliable
check for rich mixture - which of course is *needed* at WOT. Under those
conditions, the computer goes back to the lookup table. It's *that* area of
operation that many of the aftermrket chips concentrate on, with more
aggressive spark advance settings, and generally slighter *leaner* fuel
values.

The factories generally run *very* rich at WOT, even though some potential
power is lost, because it's safer that way in this day and age of extended
warranties. Running on the ragged edge of lean will give more power, but
one can run into detonation because more heat is generated than with a
richer mixture.

Late model musclecars are just as "dirty" at WOT as the musclecars of the
pre-smog equipment era were.

You didn't ask the question specifically, but I would absolutely avoid any
chip that ran open loop during normal operation.

Bruce

Well, my son and I have been messing about with his Saleen lately. This car
has a stock Ford engine and drivetrain, with the exception  of a 3.55
gearset that the vehicle was delivered with.

So far, we've pulled the air silencer from the fenderwell, installed a
K & N air filter and Kaufmann underdrive pulleys, replaced the engine
and drivetrain lubricants with synthetics, and fooled with initial timing.

It's this last that prompts my note.

Late-model 5.0 EFI Mustangs are said to run best with 37-38 degrees spark
advance total, which is the maximum one might expect on highest-octane
unleaded premium while avoiding detonation. Typically, one gets to this
figure by setting the initial timing at 13-14 degrees, with an idling engine
at normal operating temperature, and spud connector out. The Ford EEC-IV
module will then kick the timing up by another 23-24 degrees as engine speed
climbs, and all the advance is in by about 3000 rpm or so. If you've read this
paragraph so far while nodding to yourself, you're someone I'd like input from.

The problem is as follows:

With initial spark advance set at 14 degrees BTDC, our car shows a rapid
spark advance (spud connector *in*) to 37-38 degrees by roughly 1500 rpm.
At somewhere near 2000 rpm, the spark begins to *retard* slightly, and, at
around 2800 rpm, retards more rapidly, so that, at 3000 rpm and up, we're
running at about 30 degrees total. Setting initial advance at 22 degrees
gives about 46 degrees at 1500, retarding to 38 degrees at 3000 and up. With
22 degrees initial using Mobil Premium, the car pings moderately in 3rd and 4th,
starting at around 3900-4000 rpm. In 3rd, the car will stop pinging by around
4800 or so (haven't taken 4th that high). At 20 degrees initial, there is light
ping, and at 18 degrees (about 34 degrees total), there is no ping at all.
I don't know of anyone else who can run 18 degrees initial with impunity in
these cars.

We have conducted these tests with two high-quality timing lights, and have
compared the results with Eric's '88 speed-density car, which shows a smooth,
progressive advance to 38 degrees total (at 3000 rpm) with 14 degrees initial,
and which runs on the marginal edge of pinging at these settings. As far as we
know, the only difference between the '88 GT and our car is the airflow sensing
paraphernalia.

Our dragstrip results tend to support our no-load timing observations, inasmuch
as the car doesn't seem to run as freely to 5500 rpm as most 5.0s, and the
quarter-mile speeds tend to be lackluster, with 95.5 mph being the best with a
short serpentine belt, and 94.5 with the normal belt. We have not raced the car
with anything more than 13.5 degrees initial, since we just discovered the
problem over the weekend, but will run this week with 18-20 degrees and Sunoco
Ultra, just as a check.

A call to Ford Motorsports brought a directive to bring the car in to our
dealer, and we will do so, but we'd like as much data as possible beforehand,
and the shop manuals haven't arrived yet.

Has anyone checked total timing on a mass-airflow ('89 or later) 5.0? If so,
how did the advance curve look? Any other input? Why is it retarding, and
screwing up high-rpm punch?

Thanks,

Bruce

    re: 58.1
    
    how is the centerforce dual friction clutch holding up?  i am
    contemplating one for my 67 vet 427 as i need much more clutch.  is the
    centerforce really 90% better than stock as advertised?

    Well, it's been replaced by a stock Vette setup, since there was a
    problem from day 1 with clutch chatter. The Centerforce guys have
    looked at the components, and have stated that the clutch disk was
    contaminated with lubricants - most likely from the installation
    process. However, they're refunding the purchase price anyway.
    
    Go figure.
    
    Other than the chatter, the clutch was a dream. It felt much more
    positive than the stock components, without any significant increase in
    pedal pressure.
    
    Bruce

Well, it's too soon to *really* tell, but the Distant Early Warning radar
net here in wintry New England has picked up a blip on the screen in
Marlboro, Ma.

Cock an ear out the door in the vicinity, and you can hear a muted V-8 rumble,
combined with the sibilant ticking of a modified valve train.

Yup. Time to issue another Eric alert :-).

I'll let Eric give all the good data [you will, won't you? :-) ], but that
Mustang is making me nervous. It still feels very strong on the bottom end
(Eric reports noticeably stronger acceleration in 5th @ 2000 rpm), but now,
with tailbone set on sensitive, it tells me the torque just keeps building
through at least 4000 rpm before reaching what feels like a gentle peak,
starting to fade slightly only when you pass 4500 or so. This is in marked
contrast with the previous curve that, although strong, clearly peaked
somewhere in the mid-3s, with everything downhill after that. The current
curve might be extended even a bit more when Eric gets the new fuel pump
installed. Ford Motorsports says you must run the 110 GPH pump with his
current combination, since the stock (88 GPH) pump won't feed more than
around 265 HP without going lean at high rpm.

Gulp.

For that reason, we didn't take it higher than 4800 rpm while messing around
on Saturday. However, I can report that the car now pulls pretty much like
mine in second gear, whereas it always felt a bit weak to me before. It'll
have at least another 1000 rpm to play with over the Plastic Bullet, as well.

The damned thing is still certified smog legal, too.

Looks like I'm going to have to go to DEFCON 1 this spring :-).

Bruce

I'm pretty excited about the way the car is running.  As Bruce mentioned, I
stopped by his place this past weekend to show off my new masterpiece to him
and his son Richard.  I put a hundred miles on the newly assembled car during
the beginning of the week, and spent Friday taking the manifold off to fix a
nasty leak at the rear manifold-to-block mating area.  This gave me a chance
to check to new valve-train was still correctly aligned and such.

Put it all together, changed the oil, flushed the coolant, checked for leaks,
then off for the road test.  Not wanting the car to grow up a sissy -upon
arrival at the Augenstein household, I handed the keys to Bruce's son, Rich,
and sent him off on a solo flight.  Frankly, I was afraid to open the car up,
as I couldn't handle the thought of any more down time.  Seeing as Richard is
training to be a pilot, I figure who better to see if all is as it should be.
He seemed quite appreciative upon return, and that's the sign I was looking
for.  

Here is what I did:  The car start as an internally stock 1988 Mustang GT. 
I converted to Mass Air fuel management this summer with the intention of
doing the work I just finished.  Using basic less-restriction-is-better logic,
I went for the full boogie, best available, Pro-M 77mm Mass airflow sensor. 
The stock unit is 55mm.  I also changed my throttle body from 60mm to 65mm, 
and the EGR spacer from 62mm to 67mm.

My winter plan has gone through several revisions in the past weeks, and I feel
the current package is less my doing, and more a result of fate.  However, I'll
skip the long tale of endless letdowns from vendors on the West Coast who were
paid immediately, and somehow determined this was all the involvement they
were required to grace me, so really had no intention of sending the agreed
upon goods this week or any other, but weren't going to say so, because...etc.

Anyhow, I now have the Ford motorsport GT-40 emissions certified kit, as
listed on page 11 in the 1992 motorsport catalog, installed and running like
a dream.  I made a couple substitutions that I believe have no affect on
emissions which I'll list.  Here are the parts as listed in the catalog.  I'll
"***" parts I made substitutions for.
                                     
	PART NUMBER 	COMPONENT    
	M-6049-L302	GT-40 Cylinder Heads
	M-6090-L302	GT-40 Valve Train Kit
   *1*	M-6564-B351 	Roller Rocker Arm (1.60:1 ratio)
        M-6001-A50	GT-40 Intake manifold kit.
      			  	- upper/lower intake manifold
      			  	- all gaskets.
        M-9E926-A302	65mm Throttle Body
        M-9H474-A50 	Throttle Body EGR Spacer
        M-9A407-A50	EFI Electric Fuel Pump
   *2*  M-9430-SSC	Shorty Headers, 1 5/8" primary tube diameter.
   *3*	M-4209-F327	Ring and Pinion Gear Set (3.27:1)

*1* - substituted Competition Cams Pro Magnum 1.60:1 roller rockers, used
	in conjunction with a Crane Cam guideplate conversion kit.  This
	converts my bolt-in non-adjustable rocker arm fulcrum to a stud 
	and guideplate with Teflon inserts.  The idea here was use a
 	chromemoly steel roller rockers for durability, and adjust them for 
	perfect valvetrain geometry and quiet operation.

*2* - substituted MAC 1 5/8" primary equal length shorty headers.  They are 
	wrapped in Thermo-Tec and painted black.  BTW, as mentioned elsewhere
	in this notes file, that stuff is great.  It quieted down the engine
	bay, and drastically reduced the heat coming off the headers while the
	car was running.  Before wrapping the headers, it was downright
	uncomfortable standing on the side of the car with the hood up and 
	the engine running.  Lots of heat transfer from the primary tubes.  
	With the Thermo-Tec wrap, I don't notice any of the previous waves 
	of heat coming from the headers.  Also, any header "tick" is
	eliminated. 
*3* - Just by accident, with my smaller-then-stock tire diameter, I effectively
	have a 3.23:1 rearend.  I figure SVO wanted the most aggressive ratio
	they could get, and still pass emissions.  3.27:1 is probably the	
	highest they could go.  I'm pretty confident that using anything
	numerically lower then 3.27:1 would help emissions.  Though swapping
	a ratio would technically violate the certified package, I think 
        such a swap would certainly preserve the intention and spirit of the 
	EPA dudes and mother nature et al.

Eric

    Sounds like NED is going to be some fun this year!
    
    Eric, I wanna ride!
    
    /tb/

Whooo...you spent some bucks in the past few weeks!  Sounds impressive, you 
should be SOLIDLY in the 13's for evermore with that setup.  

Rich

I got a chance to get some data last night and I'm happy.  Given the air 
density was in the 110% range I expected the car to be fast - but it was 
even faster then that!  My standard test is going from 30 to 60 mph in second
gear at wide open throttle.  Under similar air, previous data was said it took
about 3.8 seconds, 250 feet, peak G's of 0.420, and a peak rear wheel HP of 
about 185 HP.  Last night it took 3.24 seconds, 215 feet, 0.488 peak G's, and
220 rear wheel HP!

Better yet, it looks like my gas mileage is at least as good as it used to
be - 23-24 mpg with mixed highway and around town mileage.  I'm itching for
an all out full boogaloo powershifting 1320 feet blast; with timeslips.

Eric

I'll list my experience with larger primary shorty headers - in case someone is 
considering a change in search of more thrust.  

I found NO extra power when switching from the stock 1 1/2" primary headers
to MAC 1 5/8" primary equal length headers.  In fact, the car felt a bit slower
and it seemed to run less smooth on the street.  The only data I have is one
trip to the strip, in which the car ran slightly slower.  A side by side 
comparison of the MAC headers against the stock unit would seem to make this 
impossible.  The stock headers have sharper bends, and pinched tubes for easy
bolt access.  Apparently this doesn't matter when the heads are stock.

My car has run a best of 13.86 at around 99 mph, which would indicate 240 to 
250 HP.  So it would seem that unless you're making more power then this, a 
change of headers isn't the hot tip.  Also, its difficult to swap those little
suckers, and *NO* aftermarket header is going to fit as well or have the same
quality.

If you're looking for an easy 10 to 15 HP, underdrive pulleys are the way to
go.  I've been using Auto Specialities 3-Pulley street set for about 2 years.
So far, I'd say this is the 3rd easiest, no penalty, permanent modification.
Of course, removing the intake silencer and putting in the K&N air filter being
number 2, and setting the initial timing to 13 or 14 degrees number 1.

Synthetic lubricants are a must also.  Doing the engine, the transmission, and 
the rear-end will net a hair over 1 mph in the quarter mile.

Eric

    Eric,
     A friend of mine is a Saleen dealer and put a set of MAC equal length
    shorties on one of his Saleen Mustangs. In fact he redid the entire
    exhaust. Other than a much throater sound, he noticed no real
    improvement in performance. With this in mind he is removing them from
    his drag car that he installed them on and replacing them with MAC full
    length headers. The only shorties that seem to make a difference and
    match factory quality are JBA, plus they are C.A.R.B certified.
    

Yeah, the stock Mustang intake/exhaust is all pretty well matched. 
You have to change pretty much all of it to get a noticeable difference
(which Eric just did!).

Rich 

    Eric,
    I picked up the specs on the 5 sp. that I want to mate up to the 5.0
    for my 62 Falcon, they appear to be stock. 
    
    1st. 335
    2nd, 193
    3rd. 129
    
    5th. 0.68 does that sound right?
    
    Now I have to deside on what tires and find out what ratios will go
    into my 9" rear. Looks like I'll be gathering parts for a while longer
    before I actually start building this thing.
    
    The Mad Weldor....Jim
          

Man, are there ever some fast late model Mustangs.  I went down to the strip
in Pueblo (evel. 4500 ft) and there were 3 late model Mustangs running.  All 
were street legal and had emissions stickers on them.  One (an 85 or 86), ran
a 15.57 which is about what I expected.  The other two were later model cars, 
one of which ran a 13.8 and the other one ran (on slicks) a 12.8.  I didn't make
it down to see what tweeks had been made to the cars.  Put those suckers down 
near sea level and the numbers would be even better.  Most impressive!

Mark

I'm in the heart of Tokyo right now, and I have to tell you
the Japanese like muscle too, they just take a different approach.
Honestly, there is some stuff here that any serious buff would
die for.  It really seems Japan is keeping the best for itself!
Now before anyone starts seeing red  - don't worry - I still love
the American stuff....

Tom

   " I think I'm turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese I really 
    think so.."
    

    Yeah, sure Tom.....muscle cars in Japan.?
    
    
    The Mad Weldor....Jim
    
    hope you brought a camera so you can show us! or are you going to move
    there and own some of that "muscle"?  :-)

Hi All,

	I'm looking for some advice on changing gear ratios on my more or less
stock '91 Mustang. It has the stock T5 transmission with the 3.35 1st gear
ratio and a 3.08 rear end. I'm thinking about changing the rear end to a 3.55
gear. My main motivation is to hopefully improve my 1/4 mile performace a
little and to up the fun factor by making 4th gear usable duing 1/4 mile runs.
Currently I'm running in the 95MPH range with a trap RPM around 5100 in 3ed
gear. 3.55 gears sound about right to me for my car today, and should still be
good if I ever go crazy and start messing with heads,intakes, whatever. 3.27
gears don't seem like a big enough jump to make the change worth doing. 3.73
gears seem like to big of a jump, putting my highway cruise RPM higher than
I'd like. 

	So, any comments from the Mustang fanatics out there? In particular -

- Will a 3.55 gear make getting a clean launch impossible w/ street tires?(I
  figure it's bad enough now, so how much worse can it get?)

- Assuming good short times, would a 3.55 gear ratio have a positive
  or a negitive effect on ET/MPH over a 3.08 gear ratio?

- Would a 3.27 or 3.73 gear ratio make more sense for some reason?

thanks
/Mike

I believe that 3.55s are the ideal gears for the late EFI Mustangs - but
only if used in conjunction with the "world-class" Borg-Warner T5.

The reason is that this combination has almost exactly the same overall
first-gear ratio (10.47:1) as your current 3.08 combo (10.32:1), and you
don't have to put up with that huge rpm drop on the 1-2 shift that you now
have. Also, the world-class box has a higher OD (.63:1 as opposed to .68:1),
in fifth, so engine speed on the highway only goes up around 100 rpm or so.
In fact, for another $50, you can get a .59:1 OD with the new box, which
will get you the same overall gearing in 5th that you now have.

Believe it or not, your current gearing is nearly ideal for launching with
stock tires, and the 3.55s are a definite overkill with your 3.35 1st. Down
track, the 3.55s will net you several hundredths of a second, so, assuming
you can control the launch, you will gain less than a tenth with the new
gears. You'll also lose mileage and gain noise out on the highway on the way
to and from the track. Finally, you'll find that the 3.55s make your 1st gear
feel useful for only getting the car rolling during everyday driving, as it
will feel as if it's running out of rpm very early.

My son has 3.55s with the stock box in his Saleen, so I can speak from actual
experience. He has run 14.3s at 96+ in his car, with a best short time of 2.09
or 2.10, on 225 tires. On the other hand, Eric has gone 2.0s with a stock motor
and 3.08s, and I personally have watched a stock-motored, factory-Goodyeared LX
go a 2.07 and 14.0 with 2.73s out back. The only magic with launching a Mustang
is experience. You have a low 14s car pretty much right now. Believe it. Go on
up there on a Saturday and have at it for 25 or 30 runs, while varying your
technique. You'll be going 2.0s, given a decent starting line. Or, give Eric a
shot in the driver's seat, and let him advise you. There is a bunch more you
can learn and do before you should make this change.

On the other hand, if you'd rather bail out and go for slicks, the 3.55s (or
even 3.73s) are the hot tip. Of course, you'll need to keep saving your
pennies to pay for broken driveline components :-(.

Bruce

Bruce,

Thanks for the comments. I agree that the 3.55s would make more sense
when used with the "world-class" T5. I had thought about the effect the
3.55s would have on highway driving and was not too concerned. But I never 
thought about 1st gear in normal driving. From a stop I shift out of 1st 
very quickly now, with 3.55s I'm sure it would be a real pain.


>On the other hand, if you'd rather bail out and go for slicks, the 3.55s (or
>even 3.73s) are the hot tip. Of course, you'll need to keep saving your
>pennies to pay for broken driveline components :-(.

Nope, after already having some problems with my T5 I'm definitally going
easy on it....

/mike

I figured I'd toss a note in here so there is public record of my disease -
Automobilia paranoia.  Perhaps future generations will benefit from these futile 
exercises.  I don't know.

I'm taking out my transmission, clutch, and flywheel for inspection.  I need
to measure the clutch housing bore and face runout.  I also need to replace my
pilot bearing.  I can't identify *exactly* why, but I still need to do it :-).
I want to measure crankshaft end play too.  The vibration at torque peak and 
WOT is pretty significant.  I can feel it in the clutch pedal and the shifter
when shifting.  

I'm going to put in my old T-5 transmission with the 3.35:1 first gear - 
the current T-5 is a Ford motorsport jobber with a 2.95:1 first.  Somehow - in
complete opposition to advice, knowledge, and previous experience - I've 
convinced myself that this will be easier to launch.  

I'm going to try the no catalytic converter H-Pipe that I have lying around.  
This is purely for data aquisition.  Several magazines have posted losses from
20 to 50 HP(!) by using the stock H-Pipe over after-market smog-legal and non-
smog-legal systems.   I'd be thrilled if I noticed a 15 HP increase.  Running 
the 2 1/4" H-pipe without converters should tell me if this area is worth 
pursuing.  The engine is now around 300 HP net, so the stock converters must
be close to there usable limit.  

BTW, my car tested out at 76 PPM HC's and 0 CO's at inspection today.  The 
HC's are higher then normal.  This makes some sense because I'm running 16
degrees initial advance (stock is 10), 1-step colder plugs, and a 5 psi 
increase in fuel pressure (44 from 39).  Advancing the timing tends to lower
CO's and raise HC's.  The why of it is unclear to me.

Eric

I'm thrilled.  I measured a T.I.R clutch runout of 0.017" for the bore, and 
0.012" on the face.  Ford specifies a maximum of 0.015 bore, and 0.010" face - 
the Clutch and Flywheel Handbook say 0.010" and 0.006" should be the maximum.
I may have located the real cause of my dissatisfaction with clutching and 
shifting on my car.  

This stuff is really subtle; but I beleive the condition existed for the last
40,000 miles or so.  The engagement range for the pedal has been too long for
my taste.  Especially with my new clutch that has a slightly thinner disc for
quicker engagement.  Its always felt to me that the clutch engages right off
the floor, but doesn't really bite hard until halfway, then is perfectly
linear for the next 1.5" of pedal travel.  I like the linear portion of pedal
travel, but the slight engagement off the floor has been a constant nuisance.  
Pedal adjustment isn't the problem.  Its also been difficult to get into 
1st gear on occasion.  I've suspected excessive disc spin-down for about 6
months.  Movement in the shifter upon engagement is another subtle indicator 
that the transmission input shaft, or pilot bearing, is not aligned.  Pedal
scrub and vibration has increased lately too.

I'm hoping that all this stuff will disappear once I get the bellhousing shimmed
into perfect alignment.  I'm replace the pilot bearing for good measure too.

Does anybody have firsthand experience with the cause/effect relationship to
bellhousing to transmission alignment?  Skip, am I on the right track?

Thanks,
  Eric

    Eric,
    Do you have a written procedure detailing how to check this runout
    for a small block Chevrolet? I'd be interested in checking (and
    setting) the proper alignment of my 350 to the Lakewood blowshield.
    I wondered how to center the bellhousing bore to the crank. It sets on
    pins on the rear of the block, so I wasn't sure how you would move it
    the align it. Are you saying that you shim it away from the block
    where ever necessary to align the bore to the trans. input hole in
    the crank? or? 
    
    Thanks,
    John

John,
  Its a little tricky to actually measure it.  The idea is to get the 
transmission hole concentric to the crankshaft, *AND* the mounting face
parallel to the rear of the engine block.  The pins in the back of the block
are supposed to locate the bore inline (concentric) to the crankshaft.  That's
why those pins fit so tight - thus making getting the bellhousing on and
off a pain if there is the slightest corrosion on the pins.  The bellhousing
is ground flat with the face parallel to the block mounting surface side.

I'm not sure how it gets out of whack, but apperently is does because the
procedure is mentioned in any complete description of a clutch job I've read.
Anyhow, you can supposedly fix misalignment, with shims, if the greatest 
variation, in dial indicator readings is within 90 degrees of each other.  This usually
means that the face and block sides of the bellhousing aren't parallel.  Using
2 shims on the bellhousing bolts nearest the maximum negative face runout is the
fix.  The shims should be 1/2 the thickness of the face runout because the 
housing essentially pivots on the block.  

The aftermarket also sells replacement dowels with specific offsets.  This 
would be used to correct a bore that isn't inline with the crank.  Before 
using offset pins, though, you must get the face parallel to the engine block.
Otherwise the bore will appear eccentric with the crank, when it actually isn't.
Thats why using shims might correct both problems if the greatest variations
happen at the same spot.  

The check the alignment, you need a dial indicator and some way to fasten it
to either the flywheel/flexplate, or the clutch/converter.  I rigged up 
a threaded pole with a large 2 large washers and nuts to clamp the clutch 
fingers, and provide a stem for mounting the dial indicator.  You rotate the
engine while noting the indicator readings on the bellhousing.  Make a couple
of revolutions so you're sure crankshaft endplay didn't enter into  things.
Measure the bore runout by positioning the indicator parallel to the face (90
degrees from the crankshaft) running along the smooth machined surface of the
transmission mounting bore.  Measure the face runout by positioning the 
indicator parallel to the crankshaft (90 degrees from the face) running along
the smooth lip along the face bore.

I was messing with shims last night, and reduced misalignment to 1/2 its
original value.  I'm going to finish up tonight, and I expect it to turn
out near perfect.

Eric
                                 					

    Eric,
    I understand now. I thought I had to enlarge the dowel pin holes to
    "twist" the bell housing to make it concentric. I guess the offset
    pins would do the trick, then possibly having to slightly enlarge
    the bolt holes.

    I installed my 2 1/4" motorsport H-pipe in place of the stock 4
    catalytic converter system exhaust.  I'm going to try to get some more
    data, but initial Vericom runs indicate that the change is only worth
    1-2% increase in power - about 3-6 HP.  This is completely contradictory 
    to several magazine articles that say a 20-30 HP gain is "in the bag".
    I'm planning on heading up to Epping tomorrow night for some early data
    aquisition runs.
    
    Besides no real power increase, the deletion of the cats. has turned
    the exhaust sound from pleasantly mellow to obnoxiously loud.  Way past
    my tolerance limit for noise.
    
    Eric   

Well I've decided it's time to start getting serious with my Mustang. Rather
than start with the various bolt-on's available, Saturday I pulled the heads
and they are at the machine shop. The plan is to get them ported and machined
for larger valves. I'll be running 1.7 ratio roller rockers with the stock
CAM. Everything else(intake manifond, throttle body, headers, etc) is staying
stock for now. Even so I'm hoping to see a nice improvement in my ET's when
the car is back in one piece, but only time will tell. It will probally be a
couple weeks before it's back on the road. My best run to date has been a
14.47 at 95.8 with a 2.201 60' time(and yes Bruce I know my 60' times could be
better).


/Mike

So Mike, what size valves are you using?  What are you having done to the 
cylinder heads, specifically.  Are you just getting bowl work done, or full 
porting?  Who is doing the work?

Mo' power - Mo' power - Mo' power! :-)

Eric 

>>>> Mo' power - Mo' power - Mo' power! :-)

My thoughts exactly!

Eric, I'm using 1.90/1.60 valves. I'm getting them fully ported. Bowl work,
gasket matched and the ports cleaned up, not real wild but it should be good. 
The work is being done at D+D Machine in Easthampton(western Mass). Since my
father has a repair shop in that area I had him find a place for me. Also, I
pulled the heads at my fathers shop since I really don't have a very large tool
collection at home. 

I do have a question for you Ford guys out there. It has to do with the 
"thermal humps" in the heads. They are going to just cut them down about
1/2 way and smooth them out. They were concerned with the car not warming
up in the colder weather if they cut them all the way down. I don't drive
the car in the winter(unless my beater dies or it's real nice), but do keep
it running thru the colder weather in the fall. So, what do people think?
Is this the best thing to do, or should I have them cut down all the way?? 
(the car is a late model 5.0L fuel injected Mustang)

thanks
Mike

re: .44

Mike,
	I can't recall exactly what year those bumps were introduced
but it was late 70s early 80s when FoMoCo used the Thermactor air injection
system to reduce pollutants.   Some applications used an air
pump and *used* to have external plumbing. The newer heads had a bump
cast into the exhaust port which was drilled to supply the post-combustion
air right near the valve heads. The air pump fed the pressurized air right
into the heads and into each exhaust port.

If your 'stang's got an air pump, I'm not certain exactly how the system will
work if they're smoothed down or eliminated but left open.  If there's no air
pump, then I don't think there's a problem looming in the near future
for you.

I've got two sets of 'mid-80s heads, one set from a 302 truck motor the other
from a 351 police cruiser.  Both have the bumps, neither had the air pump.

Chris

    Hi,
    
    RE:194,160 valves, Why do ford guys always have to make their motors
    more chevy like to go faster ??? (-:
    
    As far as the thermactor bumps go, I had a 76 351 that had the bumps.
    Just bumps, no air pump. I ground them out completely, and started
    and ran well all winter... As far as I have been told, the bumps were
    only added to slow the exhaust down, so that it would stay hotter and
    burn more completely...
    
    
    			Brian...

.......but I'm pretty sure that the hot tip is to actually leave those
bumps in there. They probably *do* cut top end power a tad, but, no
kidding, these EFI cars don't *have* any top end to speak of, anyway.
They're all torque, and the only reason you go 5500 in first is because
you have that Grand Canyon drop to second gear.

I have read that those bumps improve low end and mid range power - pretty
much like those odd looking areas in the Bow Tie "W" port heads for the
rat motor.

Bruce

    Mike...when are your heads suppose to be done? The only good machinest
    that Dick has at D&D is going on vacation next week....
    
    TMW...

Jim,

	
	Dicks son, Brent, is doing them for me. He's been doing this kind
of work after hours for a while now. He's done a number of Ford heads and
seems to know what he's doing. 

Everyone else, thanks for the info on the bumps.

/Mike

The stock 5.0 heads have a thermactor bump that protrudes into the exhaust port.
The GT-40 heads have the thermactor bump countersunk into the exhaust port.
I don't really know what to conclude from this.  The stock exhaust ports are
very small, and have a peculiar shape where they meet  the exhaust flange.  I 
beleive the purpose of this shape is to counteract reverberation.  Its a square
port with one corner that has a larger radius then the others.  The point is, it
may be designed to work with the thermactor bump.  The GT-40 heads have 
symmetric rectangle ports.

I'll look up information tonight, and get back to you.  In any case, a reputable
machine shop with *experience* is the best bet.

Eric

    ?? Why not just pick up a better set of heads to work with!
    I mean your reworking the worst heads for power, so why
    not start with better heads now while its easy!
    
    jmho
    
    re

This is key - heavy work to the intake valve bowl area.  A good 3-angle valve
job for the larger 1.94" intake valves but leave the entire intake port 
*as is*.  Don't port match it, don't polish it, and above all don't port it.
The stock intake port on the 87-up 5.0 heads match's the lower manifold very
well.  It has plenty of area to flow for your needs.  It's the stock valve
size and bowl area that needs help.

The exhaust ports are pretty pathetic.  Full porting is in order - but leave the
shape.  Have them fully ported, just short of matching the size of your header
exhaust flange.  The exhaust port should have a smaller cross-sectional area
then the header flange - this will keep in line with the designed-in anti-
reversion properties of the exhaust *system*.  As with the intake, careful and
thorough bowl work with a 3-angle valve job is needed for the larger 1.6" valves.

I don't know what to say about the thermactor bump.  I would smooth and port it
the same relative amount of the whole exhaust port, but preserve its shape. 
Maybe the machine shop has real-world experience with this.

Get a 59mm bored out MASS airflow sensor.  $49.00 with exchange from Anderson
Ford, Rt. 10 West, Clinton, IL 61727, (800)234-3106.  You won't need an 
adjustable fuel regulator or recalibration up to this size.  The ECU has enough
gain adjustment to tune the air/fuel ratio with this incremental change.  
Besides, the car runs 10% rich as is for safety/longevity reasons.

Eric

    Eric,
    What about using/adapting a 60+ mm from a 351 or 460?
    
    
    TMW

Eric,

	That's exactly what he doing, guess my first note wasn't too clear.
Bigger valves, bowl work, and 3-angle valve job. Fully port the exhaust side.
The intake ports he is leaving alone except to smooth it out just a little
bit right at the port opening - not ported. As far as the bumps go, his
original suggestion was to just cut them down a little and smooth them out.
I went with his advice, but wanted to ask here for options since I had no
idea what was best. On the rest of the stuff I had read enough to know what
I needed, but this part messed me up a little. He did say that when he
does 351 "race" heads he cuts then all the way down, but suggested against
this for my car.

RE:        -< 351W/GT40/AR/TFS/WP ? >-

I did think about just going for a set of aftermarket heads. For my car
the GT40 and WP Windsor Jr. were at the top of the list. But it seemed to
me that for my car and what I want to get out of it the price was better
to port the stock heads. Also, I think the ported stock heads should give
as much or a little more power than a set of stock GT40/WP heads. 

/Mike

Number 1 son has just gotten the Vortec blower kit for his Saleen, and is
taking time off from his loops, dives, Immelmans, split S's, and half Cuban
eights (whatever *they* are) down at Pensacola to ship me a copy of the
instructions. He says that there is a *bunch* of stuff in the kit.

Anybody have any experience with the Vortec installation? I'm worried (and
so is he) that he could end up with a blown (literally :-) ) Saleen.

Thanks.

    If he needs to have it field tested he could ship it to Houston. I'll
    install it on the ThunderTruck(tm) for a year or two, just to make sure
    it won't damage anything. ;-) I'm sure I can figure out some custom
    brackets.
    
    Harry
    

Well, my GT is back in one piece. The heads were done in 2 weeks but I had
problems with the roller rocker arms and problems finding time to get
everything back together. But I made it to the track last night and am pleased
w/ the results. I ran a best of 14.218 at 97.79, which is about a 3/10 second,
2MPH improvement. Once I get a few more runs in on it I think 14.1's are
doable. This is only about a 20HP improvement, but given that the rest of the
intake and exhaust is stock I wasn't hoping for much more(well I was but knew
I probably wouldn't see it). But, when I find the cash for a few more goodies(
larger throttle body, headers, exhaust, etc..) I think the head work will pay
off even more. 

Now for the really big news. I entered the street bracket race last night and
went all the way to the final round!! I usually don't do the bracket thing,
but by 8:30 the track was packed and I figured it would be a least an hour
before I could get in another run. So, I lined up for the bracket race knowing
I could get a run in quick. I figured I'd lose first round and then call it a
night. Well I learned bracket racing requires luck(which I had) not just
reaction times(mine suck) or consistency(I'm not). First round I line up
against a bike w/ a 13.2 dial in, I dialed in at 14.2. I miss 3ed, he blows by
me and shuts down, I find 3ed and sneak by him for the win. 2ed round I get a
bike w/ an 11.95 dial in. I spin the tires real bad and he goes storming past,
but I win because he red lighted! 3ed round I get a 15.5 second mustang or
capri, he cuts a bad light, I get my best light(.733), blow by him and lift
near the end of the track and win easily. 4th round there are only 3 cars left
and I get the buy run! For the final I changed my dial in from 14.2 to 14.3
since the car was real hot by this point. I was racing a slower car(16.98 dial
in), caught him close to the end of the track and lifted at the first timing
light since I thought I had him. But he was still there when I crossed the
line. I had no idea who won until I saw the timing slip. I had lost by .042
seconds. If I had stayed on it I think I could have won. But, it was a fun
time anyway. None of my runs were that good but it was fun winning a few races
and having some close races. Trying to chase down someone with a few second
head start and actually catching them is pretty neat. Plus I got in 5 runs
when I would have been lucky to get in 2 if I hadn't entered. 

I'll have to give this a try again another night. 

/Mike

    ACHTUNG!!!! YOU VILL MARTCH TO YOUR CARS, LINE UP, UNDT HAFF TO
    DO VELL, OR VE HAFF OUR VAYS, YOU SEE. YOU *VILL* ENJOY ZIZ!!! :-)
    
    So I show up at Epping on Friday night in the Bride's Teutonic Terror,
    ready to take on the world in this 4.2 liter, 4000 pound (with me and
    that slice of pizza), 2.24 rear-geared wonder machine. It's a Mercedes
    400E, built to fight the hordes from Lexus and Infiniti, and it
    actually goes pretty well for a luxury sedan with autobahn gearing.
    
    People don't seem to be running in terror, though. Maybe if I put
    slicks on it? :-) In fact, everybody's chuckling a bit. "Where's the
    Vette"? I hear maybe a dozen times. "Did you trade it"?
    
    I explain that my Bride, in a moment of weakness, has foolishly given
    assent to the curious idea of painting numbers on a Mercedes and going
    drag racing with it.
    
    For it's maiden pass, I line up against an LX 5.0 automatic. The young
    man driving the white hatchback has never made a pass at a dragstrip
    before, so we go up to the starting line and I show him how to line up,
    avoid the water, leave on the last amber, etc.
    
    The lights start their run down the tree and we launch. Very
    appropriate term, in my case :-). Launch, in the sense of somebody in
    charge breaking a magnum of champagne against the bow of the QE2 or
    somesuch, and the ship slo-o-w-ly begins moving down the ways, maybe
    reaching the water around 10 seconds later. That's about how long it
    took for this stately machine to get to the tree :-).
    
    This is even a bigger problem, since the kid in the 5.0 has cut a .518
    light, against my .640. Funny, it *felt* as if I had punched at at
    somewhere *before* the last amber. That's the last time you'll find *me*
    coaching somebody :-). Once well underway, however, I stop him, and, as
    we get past the 660 foot marker, I actually begin pulling him back a bit.
    He's got around a car length at the line, though, and the timeslip shows
    a 15.47 at around 91 mph for the Mustang, and a 15.53 at 92.38 for me.
    
    HEY!! THAT'S NOT TOO BAD!!!!
    
    Five runs in all show a spread from 15.45 at 92.69, to the
    aforementioned 15.53, with an average short time of 2.46. Along the
    way, I collected a 5.7 IROC *twice*, although she did manage a 15.33
    later in the evening. The first time we ran was fairly close, since the
    IROC smoked 'em off the line, enabling my humble short time to actually
    give me a small lead at the tree. It was nip and tuck for awhile, but,
    at around the 660 point (and well into second gear), I started to
    actually *pull* on the Chevy. Hot damn!!
    
    All in all, the car did about what I expected it to do. Plugging the
    numbers in, I could expect 15.3s at 93 on a "Standard Day".
    
    The novelty was fun, and surprising the starter at Epping ("Hey, that
    thing realy flies!") was worth a grin or two, as was collecting the ears
    of that IROC. I must say that it seemed like a long, thoughtful trip
    down the quarter-mile, though. Later in the evening, someone asked
    me, and I quote, "Are you using full throttle off the line?" :-)
    This car has traction control, so you can't even squeal a tire with it,
    much less worry about feeding the right amunt of gas out of the hole.
    It's just stab it and steer it, and wait for the finish line.
    
    I think my Bride was worried that I would take an interest, and
    begin screwing up her wheels. Nope. It was fun, but I think the Merc
    has dusted its first and last IROC at Epping. :-)
    
    Bruce
    
    PS - BTW, Dave, that *was* a 15.45 best, so the car is a qualifier for
    this note :-).    

    :-) I love it! :-)
    
    Wish I'd been there with the Goose - the crowd would have loved it!
    
    /tb/
    

    Hey Mike, I never realized that you were a fellow motorhead! Looks like
    your having lot's of fun. I used to run a G-stock 69 roadrunner with
    a 383 auto at Epping years ago. 2'nd time out we were running 12.2's
    with the beast. We were just a couple of 10'ths of the national record
    at the time. Lots of fun but little money to be spent at that time in
    my life. (Schooling required $$$)
    
    
    						/Dave
    

    
    RE .58
    
    Bruce,
    
    You are truly a man of great zietgiest to bring a 400E mit all the 
    options to the Drags.  15.4 @ 93?  Nicht so Schlecht!  Apparently
    the folks at the Daimler/Benz Gesellshaft are doing a good job
    beating back the likes of Lexus and Infiniti.  What's next?  A 
    Lambo LM002?  How bout a Silver Wraith?
    Incroyable!
    
    Du Bist mien neues Gott of Drag racing,
                                       
    Tom
    

re:         <<< Note 58.60 by TARKIN::HARTWELL "Dave Hartwell" >>>


Hi Dave,

	I never really used to be much of a motorhead,but once I hit 30 
something clicked and I felt the need for speed.....
So, what are you driving these days? Anything you would bring to the track?

I won't be up for awhile. I'm in Korea this week with your friend Bob Willard
and have a trip to the west coast soon. 

Well the net is dieing so I'm off...

/Mike

      I watched a video over the weekend about a road race in Utah
    where a section of highway was blocked off and a bunch of top
    end racers got to stru their stuff.  There was many Porsche's,
    BMW's, 'Vette's etc., but there was an '88 Mustang GT there that did a
    top speed of 160.  The driver said that except for the exhaust
    and the air filter that the car was stock.  What gives?  Can the
    late model Mustang really go that fast?
    
    Rich
    
    P.S.  The fastest car in the event was a heavily modified '69 Camaro
    that hit 220!                              

He forgot the 8 psi Vortech, amongst other goodies :-).

The Vortech folks have used this car in their advertisements. They claim
that theirs is the only bolt on blower that will live under these
conditions, etc., etc.

Bruce

    BTW, that event is held in Nevada, not Utah. Hot Rod Magazine has
    highlights of each event. I think they're trying to hold them twice a
    year now. I'd love to go watch, I'd *REALLY* love to get to banzai down
    that stretch of road! :-)
    
    Harry
    

I think that it is called the Silver State Classic.  There was a show on 
the tube many months ago about it.  The show that I saw had them running
some of it on wet roads as it had rained.

Mark

      Yes, that's it.  The Silver State Classic.  I am not sure if the
    video I saw was from this year, but one of the cars crashed and the
    co-driver was killed.  Since we are on the subject, what is the top end
    of a late model 'stang?
    
    Rich

    
    Rich,
    
    My 1987 5.0 LX coupe was good for a few ticks under 140 MPH, though 
    I have seen top speeds as high as 148 MPH for a "stock" LX hatchback.
    As I recall, this was in a Car and Driver top speed shootout.
    
    Hey, at least I didn't say 160 MPH 8^)
    
    Tom
    

      Thanks Tom, I had no idea those cars were so fast on the top
    end.
    
    Rich

When my car was stock engined, with several external mods - timing, intake ram
air, mufflers, etc. - I was able to creep up to a tick over 140.  Took 3 miles
on a flat to get there.  The speedometer was measured dead accurate at 60 mph
and 80 mph using measured miles and a stop watch.  

BTW, the car as a 14.2-14.5 second 1/4 miler at the time.

Eric

    FYI... Ya like ta go fast? Then go out and buy a STOCK Kawasaki ZX11.
    Motorcycle magazine clocked this beast at 176 MPH several years back.
    They stated that it was rock solid at this speed. 
    
    							/Dave

#1 son finally made it to a local dragstrip for his first clocking of
the Saleen with the 5 psi Vortech kit, along with a set of 245/50ZR16s
from Goodrich on the back.

13.6 @ 102 plus, shifting at 55, 58 and 58. He took it this high because
it still seems to pull well at that rpm with the blower.

Running the software, I show an even 103 correcting for weather conditions,
but, assuming an unchanged torque curve (except for *height* :-) ) from
3000 up, he's well over the proper shift points. The model shows a gain of
1.7 mph by shifting at 55, 5250, and 5 even, giving him just under 105 mph on
a "standard day", with whatever ET is possible with this traction-limited
combo.

Anybody know what these blowers do for the high rpm torque curve, and the
"proper" shift points?

Thanks.

Bruce

Bruce,

	what was his baseline before the blower?

Rich

The car has gone 14.3s, at better than 96 mph, without the blower. However,
it did this with a pulley set, and running the short accessory belt that
eliminates power steering, etc. Although I think one can get a pulley set
that works with the blower, he is currently running the stock set, and didn't
run a short belt at the track.

So, a stock pulley and belt baseline would likely be 14.50 @ 95.5 or so, as
near as I can estimate.

There *isn't* a new baseline as yet, but a 13.60 @ 103 is as close as I can
get to one, with a possible (I think *likely*) benefit from shifting earlier.

Bruce

PS - He also has the timing back at 10 degrees initial, compared to 14 degrees
sans blower, but I don't think that should be factored in at all, since the
blower, by nature, makes the combo more prone to detonation.

not bad at all!   Thats about 60-65 hp increase from my thumbnail calculations...
and thats before "Big Daddy":-) gets his wrench on it to tweak things for
number 1 son:-).

R

The days are getting longer, and the smell of spring is demanding attention.
Here is how I passed the winter in preparation for summer racing revelry.

Old engine out, new engine in - well actually not yet, but soon.
The configuration with be very similar to last year - that is
        
	1988	Mustang GT
	5.0 HO shortblock with GT-40 heads
	GT-40 Intake manifold and plenum.
	Converted to "Mass Air" type mixture control.
	Pro-M 77mm airflow piece.  Blueprinted and documented work of art.
	3.55:1 8.8 Auburn differential.
	Either a close or wide ratio T-5 depending on my mood. I swap
	  transmissions like its reasonable - its not.
	245/vr60-15 Michelin XGT rear tires.  Front meat is incidental.
	

From the above I made what I hope to be important tweaks.
       o New Engine...:-)  Actually a remanufactured 0.030" over 5.0 shortblock
	 	with the above GT-40 heads. 
       o The heads were fitted with new guides, light bowl cleanup, milled
	  for trueness, given a 3-angle valve jog, magnafluxed, and the  
	  spring heights shimmed for business.  All work was performed with
	  soft classical background music to perpetuate harmonious parts
	  mating.  Really.                                     
       o New roller camshaft - Motorsport E303 emissions legal thumper.  
       o New clutch - replacing the centerforce Stage I jobber I was
	  using because I never really achieved oneness with centrifugal 
	  assist and redline power-shifting. 
       o A new hot-damn prototype catalytic converter manufactured by
	  yours truly.  Gains proved *significant* with previous testing.

I'm within a week of initial test drive.  I am so excited.

Eric

    
    I've been following the latest generation of concept cars rather
    closely and Chrysler seems to be leading the pack with the "Prowler"
    which is an aluminum bodied roadster strongly reminscient of a '32
    Highboy.  Wow!  There's some talk of Chrysler taking this into
    production with a glass body and V-6 from the LH vehicles.
    
    Let's hold our collective breaths and hope Chrysler does it.  After 
    making the Viper happen, they sure seem on a roll!
    
    Tom

         They showed the Prowler along with some other new high-tech
    cars on Motorweek (PBS) this past Sunday.It looks great and most of 
    the hardware is borrowed from the LH cars (Intrepid,Concorde), so
    production may not be far off. They also highlighted the new Mustang.
    From what I saw,I wasn't very impressed ...at least with the styling.
    
                                                    Rich
    

    
    Rich,
    
    For the longest time I've wondered WHEN Detroit would capitalize 
    on it's own experience when developing concept cars.  Rather than 
    following the European/Asian jellybean approach, the big 3 seem to
    be invoking their own history with cars like the Viper, Prowler, etc.
    
    These cars take styling cues from 100 years of American car building
    experience and apply the newest and best technologies to make the idea
    feasible.  All Caddy has to do is develop a downsized `58 Eldorado
    Biarritz, equip it with the Northstar V-8, Independent rear suspension,
    a modern automatic, and ABS and they'd have a concept car to get people
    talking!  The opportunities are limitless.....
    
    However, If Chrysler would only re-introduce the Road Runner in 90's form.
    No power windows, cruise control, etc.  Just the latest engine
    technology, suspension technology, safety technology all hung on a
    simple, yet beautiful and solid body....Yikes, I'd buy one tomorrow!
    
    The Roadrunner was truly a pioneer in the sleeper category, and set the
    standard for affordable performance.  It's a concept that's as relevant
    today as it was in 1968....
    
    Tom
    
    
    

    re: .79
    I've often wondered about that type of thing myself, the 
    factories re-introducing an older, successful design with
    updated drivetrains and suspensions.
    
    How about a 1965 Mustang fastback, with a 302 H.O., 5 speed,
    modern suspension, updated interior and seats, etc. Even a
    knockoff that looks like the off-road bumperless front valance 
    could probably be made to withstand a 5mph impact.
    
    Or how about a '57 Tbird with all the same equipment.  Think
    Chevy could sell a few copies of a '53 Corvette body or a '64
    Nova with ZR1 running gear and suspension?  How about a '71 
    Cuda with a V10 from a Viper?
    
    The technoloy is all there, it's just a matter of mating the 
    bodies with the modern running gear.
    
    Rick

    
     I hope to god they let the Road Runner name rest in peace unless it
    is resurected it as a V8, all wheel drive number that is TRULY affordable.
    However, I feel that the chances of that happening are slim to none as
    the big trend in cars these days is more doo-dad add ons than any sane
    person needs.
    
    Tony
    

    
    My cousin restored a '55 Crown Vic to its original two tone colors. It
    looks stock/mint but when you open the hood...it has a Mustang GT 
    drivetrain and AC power accesories. He wanted a modern, reliable 
    drivetrain for reliability/power/economy. Sure it is far from original, 
    but suits his needs better than a original setup. I heard he might tub 
    it..now that's going to far!
    
    Gary
              

    At least he put a Ford engine in it, and not a SB Chevy.
                                                    John M.
    

In .76 I ran down my then-latest creation.  It just didn't work.  The car
idled like a top fueler, and ran like an over-cammed low compression wheezer.
I delayed and suffered until about 2 weeks ago, when I went to Epping for a
friday night blast, and I turned a best of 14.1 @ 101mph.  Down 2-3 mph from
last year.  Mike Callander was kind enough to let me make a couple of passes
with his mildly modified mustang.  His car ran beautifully - smooth idle, nice
throttle response, good throttle control at steady speeds.  It reminded me of
how my car almost used to work before I spent all that time and money to slow
it down.  Enough was enough.

So, off came the cylinder heads.  I had a leaking exhaust valve fixed, and
milled the heads.  Make that MILLED the heads.  The combustion chambers ran
from 63.8-64.5 cc's.  Now they are 56.8-57.4 cc's - that's a healthy 0.040"
from the deck.  This was the most aggressive car decision I've made so far; but
the thing wouldn't run right, and I needed to fix it.  I figure I changed the
compression ratio from  8.6:1 to about 9.3-9.4:1.  With the cam I'm using, I 
figure its OK, and could go higher ;-).  

Anyhow, it runs alot better.  Still more ragged then last year, but acceptable 
if it runs hard.  I figure that 105mph in the quarter will suffice.  106 would
be better, but traction already  limits my speeds a bit so I'm trying to remain
flexible.  

We'll see what happens this week.  I'm figuring a trip to New England Dragway
this Saturday.  

Eric  

Last year I popped a set of roller-tipped, 1.6:1 rockers on all 16, and
went slower. Replacing the valve springs cured the valve float incurred as
a result of the rocker change, and appeared to have restored performance,
but I was never able to "prove" it, since the October tests resulted in an
inability to use full throttle in first gear (AKA "The Mustang Problem" :-) ).
Therefore, I didn't get any time slips that matched the seat of my pants
feeling of extra torque.

So, what the heck. Time to escalate again. :-)

I've got a set of Lingenfelter/Accel headers on the bullet, and, after doing
some ball peen and hacksaw surgery on the air pump to cat tubing to cure some
interference and resultant noise, I've got a quiet car (only slightly noisier)
that *may* go faster.

Saturday may tell the tale.

Bruce

    Bruce,
    
     was nice to finally meet you when I was back that way..I would like
    to know just what performance difference you will see with the headers.
    I am redoing my exhaust system on the T/A..I am going custom headers,
    high flow cat. and low restriction muffler..The car ran consistant in
    the 13.80's again this spring at Firebird so I have a good base to see
    if I really get much improvement..Due to the heat here I most likely
    will not run at Firebird again till this fall..
    
    Jim

........on my wienie engine that was making no more than around 270 HP or so.

This should translate to around 2 tenths and about 1 1/2 MPH. Although the
Lingenfelter folks mentioned something to the effect of 25 HP, when pursued
for 1/4th mile data, they gave me the 2 tenths and 1 to 2 mph figures. I
figure the headers probably *do* make 25 more HP, but probably at 5500 or
some such, where I never venture except when missing shifts :-).

As it turns out, they're right. The car went 13.59 at Epping Saturday, with a
best speed of 102.61. As near as I can tell, the weather conditions would
have dictated 13.8s at about 101 MPH for me, without the headers.

BTW, I pulled a 1.96 short time on that 13.59 run! Unfortunately, that was the
run where I tried 5000 rpm shift points, and the MPH was off a tad. There were
possibly another couple of hundredths to be had on that run with my "normal"
4750, 4750 and 4600 rpm shifts.

I've never had a perfect run, but that was the only perfect start I've had in
7 seasons of occasional racing with this car. For the first time ever, I
analyzed the start while on the way back to the staging lanes for the next pass
(which is my habit), and couldn't think of a single possible improvement. Yeah,
I know the guys with slicks are snickering, but this street-tire-and-big-torque
puzzle is a tough one. :-)

Bruce

I've had it with slip-sliding all the way to the 330 ft. mark.  

Saturday's best was 13.41 @ 103.85.  I was wildly inconsistent, and I absolutely
could not powershift due to traction limitations.  I beleive I'll be running in
the 12's with decent traction.  Time will tell.

Eric

Wait a minute here. I thought you guys were just street weenies. Bruce
puts headers on the plastic bullet, Eric buying slicks! How's a poor
guy supposed to keep up!  I guess I can understand Eric's motivation for
the slicks, my mustang is a lot slower and I have traction problems too.
But Bruce, I've never heard you say a nice thing about headers on a street
car. Well, as you two race towards the 12's I'll still be poking along on
my way to the 13's. 

I have made a few changes to my mustang since last year and have made a few
trips to NED this month. I added a set of MAC 1 5/8" equal length shorty
headers which gave only a very very slight improvement. I also had the
stock 55MM MAS AIR sensor body bored to 60MM. This brought me up to
14.202 at 98.93MPH. The larger meter gave me about a 1MPH improvement in
the 1/4 mile. Best $35 bucks I've spent on the car in a long time! I've
also added an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, but I haven't reallly
messed with trying different pressure at the track yet. With a little
more practice I should be able to hit 14.1's with the car as it is.
Also, I'm starting to look into subframe connectors and better suspension
parts for the rear end to try and improve traction. I'll probally add the
subframe connectors and a set of the motorsport HD upper control arms sometime
in the near future. I feel I should be able to get close to 13.99 if I can get
my 60' times down from the current 2.2 second range. 

/Mike

    
    Well Boys, It looks like Bruce and Eric have fallen into the
    musclecar truism..  If'n ya wanna go fast ya gotta swap the hard parts!
    
    You know it's sad really.  Used to be that the 60's muscle was
    the only game in town, but no longer. I shudder to think that somewhere
    down the road my kids will watch me tinker with my 1960's big blocks
    and mumble to themselves about how Dad loves the antiques.  Kinda the
    same thing I do now when I see someone messing about with the flathead
    Ford....
    
    Nice going guys, that's serious performance for any musclecar, never
    mind a sub-400 cube musclecar.
    
    I can't wait to get the Cougar back to Epping.  With the ignition and
    carb woes ironed out, and a 3:50 ring and pinion planned sometime
    soon I'm looking forward to some solid 14 second timeslips, with 
    traction problems...
    
    Tom

Mike, I beleive you're car is in the 13's as it sits today.  The track hasn't
been very good so far, and you simply need more traction.  Short times in the
2.2 second range aren't where you're at.  Actually, I think that you are
capable of running 13.7's without any more modifications to your engine!  
With a month or so of super-tuning, and a different h-pipe, 13.9's will seem
mundane.  Really.

BTW, what are you running for initial timing?

Eric

Eric,

	Initial timing is at 15degrees, This is where it ran best last year.
I haven't played around with it yet this year. I agree that the car can run
better than 14.2. I ran 14.2 last year and the changes I've made have
given me more power. But, both my short times and ET's are about the same
as last year. With a little more practice and better track conditions I
think I can get close to 13's now, but only time will tell. Don't think
I can get to 13.7's though, but we'll see. 

/mike

P.S. Anyone going to the track tomorrow? I'm going to try and make it up.

    re: .90
    Tom, I'm surprised that you're expecting only 14's from your
    Cougar.  I would expect a good runnng 428 to be into the 13's.
    
    I ran a best of 13.43 with a basically stock 428, 3.50 gears,
    mufflers, and Radial T/A tires.  'Course, that was in a '69
    Falcon, probably a few hundred pounds lighter than a Cougar. 8^)
    
    Let me know when you're heading up to NED, I'd like to see you 
    run the Cougar.  It's been about 12 years since I've made a pass
    down the 1/4 mile, but I'm expecting high 16's from my '92 Nissan 
    pickup (134hp, 2500 lbs.), and may give it a try! 
    
    Rick

...........not the destination. :-)

>   Wait a minute here. I thought you guys were just street weenies. Bruce
>   puts headers on the plastic bullet, Eric buying slicks! How's a poor
>   guy supposed to keep up!  I guess I can understand Eric's motivation for
>   the slicks, my mustang is a lot slower and I have traction problems too.
>   But Bruce, I've never heard you say a nice thing about headers on a street
>   car. Well, as you two race towards the 12's I'll still be poking along on
>   my way to the 13's. 

Yeah, well we're still wienies. Believe it :-).

We just feel the need (like yourself) to go a bit quicker than before. Y'know.
Like Eddie Hill wants a 4.6 :-).

Eric has been putting up with the tiptoe-thru-first-gear syndrome for a *bunch*
longer than I'd be willing to put up with it, and, I personally have run out
of the "psychological speed equipment" changes I've been making since 1986.
Mike, you're right about my general feelings regarding headers, and I must
admit to being a little nervous about the results. However, I'm pretty pleased
with them. They're a little (a very little) noisier than stock, but you might
not notice if you weren't the owner. The car has always had a little
ring-a-ding sound from the stainless steel (not cast iron) headers, and now it
has a little more. In addition, I can't tell from inside, but, outside the car,
the exhaust sounds slightly more authoritative than before, with a slightly
deeper tone. These are full length headers, BTW, with the ceramic/metallic
coating for rust resistance and less heat loss.

I'm looking for a 100% "standard day" to see if I can do a 13.499 with another
perfect launch, plus my old "aim to the right" starting line position, which I
abandoned for my Saturday testing.

Friday?

Bruce

      Anybody out there know anything about the fuel pumps used on GM
    Tuned Port V8's?  My wife's '85 Trans-AM runs fine, but there is a
    distinct sound of compressed air leaking when the engine is running.
    The sound is originating from the fuel pump area in the gas tank, but
    it does not seem to be coming from any of the fuel lines or the vent.
    Also, removing the gas cap does not affect the noise, so I don't think
    it is a problem with the tank.  The sound occurs with a full tank of
    gas or when it is nearly empty.
    
    Is this sound normal for the Tuned-Port cars?  If not, do you have any
    idea what the problem could be?
    
    Thanks,
    Rich

The pump on my car is moderately noisy, and has been so for 4 or 5 years. I
wouldn't describe it as a hiss, though. I have heard a variety of sounds on
TPI cars, including what sounds like a hiss. My son's Shadow turbo has a
definite hiss, although the Daytona we had was nearly noiseless.

I think what really matters here is whether the Trans Am sound has recently
changed significantly. A new hiss may mean escaping gas from either the fuel
or return lines, a bad check valve (at the pump), or mild cavitation.

Going through the shop manual's recommendations for pressure and volume may
tell you whether or not you have a "real" problem.

Bruce

      Thanks Bruce.  I will hook up a pressure gauge to the Schrader valve
    on the fuel rail to see what is going on.
      
    Rich

I'm up for Friday night at Epping.  I have a strong suspicion that traction
is *not* going to be the problem it was last week.  He He He, Ha Ha Ha,
Ho Ho Ho :-).

Eric

>                        <<< Note 58.98 by JOAT::GOEHL >>>
>                  -< Crossing one line and drawing another. >-
>
>I'm up for Friday night at Epping.  I have a strong suspicion that traction
>is *not* going to be the problem it was last week.  He He He, Ha Ha Ha,
>Ho Ho Ho :-).
>
>Eric
>

If this means what I think it does I'll try my best to be there.

/mike

I think I may show up Friday too


Rich

I now own a set of Mickey Thompson 8.5"X 26" drag slicks mounted on centerline
wheels.  I figure that as long as the car runs lousy on the street, it might
as well run good at the strip.

Messing about last night with the computer, I was suprised at the level of
work I would have to do to get into the 12's.  I currently have a 2.95:1 first
gear, 3.55:1 rear, and a powerband in the (EFI comparative) stratosphere.  If
Shiftmaster is correct, I need to launch at 5,000 rpms by sidestepping the 
clutch, then powershift second at 5800, granny shift 3rd at 6100-6300 rpms, and
powershift 4th at 5800.  This should put me in the 12.9 range.  My poor car.

Sometime this summer I'll sway in the 3.35:1 first T-5 I have, and I should
be able to launch at a more reasonable 4500 rpms and still knock a tenth off
my ET. 

As always, talk is cheap.  We will see what happens on Friday. :-).

Eric

    Can you say "Broken parts"
    
    
    
    
    							/Dave
    

Eric,

	you're welcome to borrow my broom and dust pan:-)

Rich

Pretty neat.

Mike Callander got a run in, shortly after they sprayed the track, and
laid down a 14.14 - his best ever. Of course, Mike is at the point now where
he is making more torque than his tires can take, under normal circumstances.
He needs artificial devices now in order to hook up. :-(

Speaking of which, I got up there late, well after they sprayed, and of course
they're not going to spray again, due to the fact that there aren't a bunch of
cars up there on Fridays, and also because it tends to be ineffective when the
sun goes down and the dew comes up :-). The Bullet wouldn't take full throttle
in 1st without breaking loose, and even granny-shifting second gear brought
out the wheelspin demons. Result: 13.8s at 102 and change. :-(

On the other hand, Eric had some interesting times :-). 13.1s at 103+ (with
short times in the *1.8s*), to be more precise. That wasn't the whole story,
however.

Somewhere around 8:30 or so, we (Mike, Eric and yours truly) were bench racing
near the food stand, and no less than 3 people came up and offered suggestions
as to how that Black Mustang should be launched - *including* the starter :-).
He told me (a few feet away), that "Your friend needs to run more air in those
slicks, or else take it a lot easier on the burnouts, 'cause I'm seeing
*clutch smoke* as he's coming to the line". Eric was launching at *5500* or so,
and *bogging*.

Gulp.

After the parade of people (including Mike and myself) had offered their
comments, Eric went home :-).

I have zero doubt that he'll be in the twelves this year - and that will be
an official smog legal 12 second car.

Not bad, guy. Just make sure your piggy bank has some funds in it, since I
*know* there will come a time when the red mist rises after you've run a string
of 13.0s, and you'll either make it (the 12s), or break it :-).

Bruce

Ater 4 summers drag racing using steel belted radial tires exclusively, 
the switch to drag slicks  proved to be even more different then I had 
anticipated.  There is more to slicks then a simple increase in traction.

My head is still swimming in all this new data, so I need a bit of time before
I come to any conclusions.  In any case, I caried out my intended plan as
best I was able.  With a total of 12 runs, 10 of them were made with
starts that consisted of simultaneously dumping the clutch and flooring the car
from a starting rpm of 4000-5500 rpms in 500 rpm increments.  I bogged in every
case.  *WoW*! :-)

On the advise of several truly "Hot Shoes" at the track, I ran tire pressures 
ranging from 12 to 16 PSI.  The 12 PSI ride was my first run, and was the
singularly most wild ride I've ever had in a pseudo-straight line.  The car
squirmed so bad in third gear that it took my full concentration to keep from
hitting the wall; well, at least thats how it felt at the time.  New sensations.

"Fun" would be understated.  It was a wonderful new discovery.  New enough 
that even not getting into the 12's wasn't all that disappointing.  I'll write
more when I have the time later this week.

I feel fulfilled.  Its been a long time.

Eric

    
    db
    

My electric fuel pump is getting annoyingly noiser(now that I went back to the 
stock exhuast system...:-).  I am about to have it replaced and want to go 
to a higher flow pump, not that my engine needs it now but to help build my
foundation for future mods(maybe a stupid charger someday...dream...).  
I was thinking of the 110 lph units I see mail order for 79 bucks.  I will have
the work done by a mechanic(my condo doesn't like me to spill my car's precious
bodily fluids on the pavement).  Will this pump work fine with the stock fuel 
system or will I need to replace the fuel pressure regulator too?  Anyone know 
if these are noisy too?  Anything else I should be aware of?


thanks

Rich

      As far as noise goes, the fuel pump on my wife's '85 Trans-Am is
    very noticeable inside the car.  It is working fine though, and fuel
    delivery is not a problem, so I am going to leave it alone for now.
    
    Rich

On or about July 7th, 1993, at about 7:30 pm, whilst plodding home from
sun-filled, fun-filled MR04, with 574 miles on the Thing's clock, I did
endeavour to seek the redline in the most active gear.

Verily, I found it :-).

This morning, at or about 7:55 am, on Route 20 in Marlboro, I did endeavour to
seek the redline in the second most active gear.

Verily, I got within shouting distance, before an 18-wheeled knave interrupted
the festivities by churlishly refusing to pull onto the shoulder so I could get
that last 500 rpm :-).

Bottom line: This car will run a bunch more like my old GTO than like the
Bullet. The Bullet would run a lot like those old Chrysler 440s, meaning, you
got it all done with a sterling launch and a frenzied beating down of the tach
needle with the shift lever routine, and you essentially were all done but the
shouting (except for the last shift) at not much over 60 mph. If you weren't out
in front by a reasonable margin at that point, you were looking at some
potential trouble against cars that made some real horsepower.

With the GTO, if you were within a car-and-a-half at the top of first against a
good-running 440, *he* (or she) was looking at some potential trouble. In
second, you'd stop the Mopar and begin pulling it back, and in third, you'd
start to walk. Third seemed to be the Goat's best gear, and fourth was a good
puller as well.

The Thing has a fairly unimpressive first gear, compared with the fierce,
torque-inspired lunge that the Bullet would give you, but who-eee, second gear
feels like a good 'un, alright alright.

Can't wait for a shot at third, and, in a month or two, going through all four
at Epping.

Bruce

PS - Yeah, I knmow this is mere prattle, but, it's the first time in 8 years
that I get to figure out and mess with a new challenge, so I'm pretty up about
it. :-)

...:-)...


Glad you're havin' fun Bruce!

/tb/

I've mentioned that my old L98 absolutely gave you a bigger belt in the back
than the new LT1, and therefore *feels* faster. This is the same issue that
helps fuel the old-vs-new controversy that goes on from time to time, in this
file and elsewhere. Those old musclecars had (have) that mountainous torque
curve, compared to the new ones.

So I'm at NED a week ago Friday, the car feels like a slug, and it's clear from
a couple of tries on the way up that I just can't shift. I'm hoping to be able
to squeeze into the high 13s if God smiles at me, but it ain't no sure thing at
all. First pass gets a huge bog out of the hole, which nets me a 2.21 short
time. I don't powershift until the 3-4, but the timeslip says 13.88 at 101.08.

Hmmmmmm.

I get a couple of missed shifts out of the way (from firing old Plastic Bullet
synapses that cause me to push hard right on the 2-3, getting me hung up on the
gate between 3 and 5), then go 13.86 and 13.84, with the short time coming down
to 2.11. However, after several runs in immediate succession, the mph goes down
to 99, so I park it for awhile to let it cool.

Back out on the track, a no powershift run nets me a 13.79 at a bit over 100, so
I determine to be a bit more aggressive for the last pass of the night, and 
powershift. This run netted me the 13.66 @ 102.42, with a 2.08 short. I was
ecstatic.

OK, this past Wednesday I was up there with Eric and #1 son, and happened to
notice an LT1 Z28 Camaro, with 6 speed. The gentleman tells me he went 14.0 when
box stock, but has just installed a chip and 160 thermostat, somebody's muffler,
a pulley, a K & N filter, and a 4" hair dryer hose in place of the factory's
convoluted intake tube.

I watch the first pass. He drives through the water :-(, does a short burnout,
burns and bogs on the launch (2.31 short), seems to run into the rev limiter
just before the 1-2 shift, and doesn't powershift.

13.84 @ 102.42. Holy sh*t!

I figure it's a 13.4-.5 car, *probably better*, given the 96%  air density and
his driving. Maybe 104-105 mph on a good night, driven by somebody experienced.

OK, this past Friday, I show up late due to my D.C. trip, and I figure I'm going
to work hard on the start technique. The air is better at about 97%, and I am
heartened to see #1 son go 13.50, at near 103.

First pass, the revised start technique results an a decent lunge for the first
5 feet, followed by a pretty noticeable bog. I powershift all three, and the
timeslip says 13.591 @ 105.30, with a 2.02 short. The ET just happens to exactly
match my best ever with the Bullet, but 105.30? Where the *hell* did that come
from?

Second pass, I bump the start rpm (from around 23-2400 to 2800), and the car
goes 13.44 @ 105.68, with a 1.95 short(!) This time it went about a car length
before bogging a bit.

I park it, 'cause I just don't understand, and I'm fulfilled, for the moment. I
also determine that I'm going to make 1 more run after it cools down (I've seen 
just under 200 degrees at the line for both passes), and I'll either light 'em
up, or I'll *really* get a short time.

90 minutes later, I'm at the line at 3200 rpm, with the temp reading 188, and
the air density nearing 98%. Due to starting line conditions, I'm not lined up
as well as I'd like to be, plus I've rolled another inch or two into the beams
from where I'd like to be before stopping, as well. What the heck, though. I'm
here, and I'm going for it against a Syclone in the other lane. I launch *hard*
(the 1.96 short time would've been better by a few hundredths except for my
sloppiness in the lineup), and the car is still working on relatively cool water
from the radiator as the thermostat does its thing, so it feels pretty healthy
as I beat the tach down with the shift lever. The Syclone has gotten a very late
start, so his 1.80 short is to no avail. He pulls me a bit in the midrange, but
I know there's no way once I'm well into 3rd, and he just fades away.

13.35 @ 106.21.

And it *still* doesn't feel very fast :-).

Assuming this night was not an abberation of some sort, I think the car may have
another tenth in it at 100% air density. 13.2s at near 107? We'll see.

This car is still exactly the way it was shipped from Bowling Green, and it'll
stay that way for awhile, until I'm sure of the baseline.

I'm having some trouble believing all this, but I sure ain't complaining :-).
Meanwhile, if you're in the market for something current, run, don't walk dwon
to your Chevrolet or Pontiac dealer, and pick up something that says LT1 on it
somewhere.

You'll be glad you did. Even if it feels like a slug, it won't be :-).

Bruce

Yup, 
I used to be under the impression that newer cars were slow... They don't
feel fast... Time slips don't lie...
	I watched a new firebird run Friday at PMI (4500 feet above sea level)
he was running mid 14's quietly. Blew away quite a few loud ,nasty looking
60's iron...

					Brian...
					11.90@118 so far...

13.35 @ 106.21! Wow! Good driving Bruce. At 106 MPH it looks like you might
be able to give Eric a run for his money, slicks and all. 

As usuall my Mustang simply refuses to run in the 13's. I had a good night
friday, four runs - 14.13, 14.07, 14.06, and 14.04 with speeds from 98.4 to
99.0. Short times ranged from 2.17 to 2.13. As long as the track is good
and the weather is OK I can seem to run 14.0's+14.1's consistantly. But
that 13.99 timeslip allways seems just out of reach. Then, on those hot
nights when the track is slick I go back to running 14.2's and 14.3's. This
is really getting to be a pain. 

Maybe I should just break down and buy slicks, but I'm waiting to see how long
it takes Eric to really start breaking parts now that he's running 12's in
his car....

/Mike

I'm looking for some help re #1 son's car, which has an EEC4 problem of sorts.
Last Friday, it went pretty consistent 13.50s at just below 103 mph, with 2.0
short times - but both of us (especially *him* :-) ) were disappointed.

Awhile back, it went 13.60s at 102.3, in similar air, but with only the Vortech
to distinguish it from stock. Since then, it has gotten a set of Ford
Motorsports coated 1 5/8ths shorty headers, a MAC 2 1/2" cat-back exhaust, plus
a C & L 73mm mass airflow sensor, with a 12" K & N filter element that appears
to have surface area measured in *acres* :-).

The C & L guys advised us that the stock (Vortech) filter element was very
undersized for the application, and after seeing it last week, I heartily
concur; It's smaller than the stock element! Their advice was to get the mammoth
K & N, and mount it in the fenderwell. In fact, they mentioned that the only
reason the Pro-M unit outperformed theirs in a recent magazine test was that the
Pro-M guys supply their unit complete with a properly sized K & N, while theirs
was tested with the stock element. At the time, they also mentioned that some 
cars with the 12" K & N in fenderwell combo would show a check engine light at
the very top (maybe 5000 rpm and up) of third and fourth gears. Turns out that
as a result of the increased airflow capability (and with the blower, of
course), you could get a mass airflow signal to the EEC4 up near 5 volts, which
the Ford guys determined would never be reached - even in Death Valley at 20
below zero :-). When the computer sees something over 4.9 volts, it assumes
you've got a short in the mass airflow sensor, and sets an error code.

What *else* it does is the question.

We're getting the check engine light at the top of second, and starting in third
gear at around 4300 rpm, that stays lit from then on. C & L says that this
particular error code won't mess up fuel delivery, since the computer will stay
at full rich settings, and, with the blower, you need that, along with the
return line block that Vortech supplies to automatically bump the fuel pressure
under boost.

NED results lead us to believe that we may have an air turbulence problem in the
fenderwell (maybe because it's a Saleen, with its revised front end spoiler),
and we think the computer may be pulling the timing back, or, in fact, messing
with injector pulses as a result of the "false" (turbulence-induced) reading
from the mass airflow sensor. Timeslip analysis shows the car to be really quick
at the low end (allowing for Mustang traction woes), and pretty much dying as
the speeds rise.

Even our resident EEC4 expert (Eric) hasn't been able to get the straight scoop
from anyone on what the computer may be doing under these circumstances.

Does anyone have a pointer to somebody who really knows what's going on here?
Ford Motorsports, C & L, etc. don't appear to have the knowledge.

Thanks.


Bruce

>Meanwhile, if you're in the market for something current, run, don't walk dwon
>to your Chevrolet or Pontiac dealer, and pick up something that says LT1 on it
>somewhere.

>You'll be glad you did. Even if it feels like a slug, it won't be :-).
    
       I know if you have to ask, that you can't afford one ;^) , but
    just how much did the new 'vette set you back?
    
    
                                                      Rich
    

Rich,

If it helps on the Vette cost, my dad recently bought a 93 Corvette LT1 Coupe 
and got what seemed to be a decent deal.  His stickered at $42k and he paid
about $8k less than that for it.

Mark

Mine stickered at $37,654, less $7k, less the trade. I admit that that's a bunch
of money, but from my viewpoint, it was certainly worth the extra $4,204 over
the $26,450 I paid for the Bullet, just for the extra features. I.E. - 6-speed,
anti-lock, traction control, bigger brakes, wheels and tires, etc.

On the other hand, well equipped  LT1 Camaros and Firebirds are around $20K
list, and you can bet that discounting will be the normal rule come this Fall
and Winter.

BTW, Mark, what kind of times and speeds did your dad come up with in that
rarefied air?

Bruce

I was afraid that'd you ask that, Bruce.  :-)  I can't remember for sure. 
My dad ran at Bandimere (elev. 5800ish) and he ran (I think) low 15s but
I can not remember the mph.  I think that it was mid 90s.  I just sent
him mail via the Internet to ask him the ET/mph.  I'll post the answer
when he gets back to me.

I do remember that the car had 3600 miles on it at the time and that he
did the runs with ASR off.  

    Bruce, if the Ford behaves anything like the GM's, here's sorta what
    happens: When the engine sets an error code on any sensor that it
    considers 'critical' to operation (ie, TPS, MAP, MAF, OXY), the
    computer goes into 'limp home' mode. The timing gets backed way off and
    I think the fuel curve reverts to look up tables rather than measured
    values. Max power is no longer the main concern. It's main purpose is
    to keep the engine running.
    
    Harry
    

We're pretty sure that the Ford computer does something nasty under those
circumstances, as well. When we covered the bottom 6" of the air filter with
aluminum foil, the check engine light came on late in *1st*, and stayed on all
the way through the traps. Result: 13.8 @ 99. Covering the *top* 6" of the
filter with foil resulted in the "usual" light at the top of second, lasting
through the traps, which is the same as what it does if the full 1 foot element
is exposed. The ET went back down to 13.5, at just under 103 with the rear half
covered. From this we infer that we have a turbulence problem, and we further
infer that the EEC4 is doing something serious about it.

Given time (he is back down in Mississippi playing Space Invaders with the Navy
:-) ), Rich will reinstall the stock Vortech element and give it a go at some
local track, assuming he can find one. Then, the plan is to either fasten a 3 or
4 inch piece of tubing to the front of the C & L unit (same diameter), sticking
out into the center of the K & N, or to mount the C & L inside the engine
compartment, with tubing leading out to the K & N in the fenderwell. In either
case, we figure on getting a straightened shot of air into the mass airflow
sensor, thus avoiding the turbulence problem.

Bruce

Bruce,

Where in Mississippi is your son?  If he happens to be on the coast, there is a 
dragstrip in Gulfport.  I used to go there on Sundays during my highschool daze.

Mark

He's stationed in Meridien, about 3 hours north. I believe that the one time he
raced it down in that area was at Gulfport, when he was stationed at Pensacola.

Bruce

Bruce,

Since you have experience with a Vortech, I have a question for you.

My dad, who I mentioned has the 93 Corvette, has ordered a Vortech supercharger 
and Borla exhaust system for it.  The guys at "the shop" tell him that this will 
raise the horsepower level of his car to 500 horsepower.  This sounds a litle bit 
optimistic to me.  My guess is that these two mods (and a chip too) will raise 
his horsepower from the stock 300 to about 425.  What do you think?

"The shop" is also trying to tell him to change the rear end gearing from the 
stock 3.45s to 4.10s.  I think that he should stay with the 3.45s.  Again,
what's your opinion?

Also, he's considering having some Extrude Hone work done on the runners, etc.

Oh, in answer to your previous question about what he ran at Bandimere on the 93,
he replied and said it was mid 15s and mid 90s.  It was his first ever time on a 
dragstrip and now he's hooked.

Thanks for any input,
Mark

P.S. If you'd like to contact him directly, you can reach him at the email
     address: decwrl::"[email protected]".  His first name is Jerry.

    I'm not Bruce, but I'd second the gear suggestion.  4.10 is right
    where you want it for serious street performance.  If pop likes
    top end, don't do it, but if he's into getting up and going, 4.10
    is about as low as he wants to go.  If he has a six-speed tranny
    he may be able to go lower (4.56).
    
    Mike

Although I'm nervous about the supercharger with such a high compression ratio,
it certainly would be worth a bunch of power and torque. My (non-complete)
understanding is that you pretty much need extra fuel capability (over and above
what the standard injectors can deliver) above 5000 rpm, and a fair bit of spark
retard as the boost comes up. On the other hand, if the car is routinely
operated at high altitudes, it's probably dead safe. He's getting the kit from
either Carroll or Vetticola, right? If it's somebody else (other than the
Vortech folks themselves, if they've developed a kit), then I'd *really* be
nervous.

With a properly done kit and exhaust, I'd figure something over 400 HP - maybe
as much as 425, maybe not. Figure on another 10 MPH in the quarter, with
whatever ET he can make with that. I'd be looking for something approaching 1
full second.

With the extra torque, the car will be somewhat traction sensitive in first gear
with the 3.45s, and will be pushing fairly close to redline in fourth as it
clears the traps in the quarter mile. I think they'd be damn near the perfect
gear.

Big gears work well when you've pushed the torque curve well up the scale, but
that will not be the case with this car. If you analyze the torque available at
the drive wheels during an acceleration run, you will quickly realize that the
advantage of big gears comes in the 0 - 25 MPH area, and after that it's pretty
much a wash. If you're at the limits of traction anyway, then the gears will be
of minimal help, although acceleration from highway cruising speeds in 6th gear
will be noticeably improved.

John Lingenfelter puts 3.73s in his LT1 packages, but the power and torque peaks
are raised nearly 1000 rpm over stock, so the car goes through the lights in
fourth at about the 6000 rpm HP peak. He puts 4.09s (I don't think a 4.10 is
available) in his ZR-1 packages, but they don't make the torque of the 383 LT1s,
and the curve doesn't peak until well into the 5000 range, with the power peak
somewhere near 7000(!) Again, the car will clear the lights up near the (new)
power peak in fourth.

Extrude honing the intake will be of relatively small value unless he has the
heads done. He should also look into extrude honing the exhaust manifolds while
he's at it, or get headers from SLP or whomever.

Bruce

    Thanks a bunch for the information.  I will pass it along to my dad.
    FYI, he currently lives in San Jose so the car will be operated near
    sea level until he and mom move to Colorado in another year or so.
    
    Thanks again,
    Mark

Since I asked some questions here about installing a Vortech on my dad's 
Corvette LT1, I thought that I would post an update.

The car is done.  It now has a Carrol Vortech supercharger system, extrude honed
exhaust manifolds, Comp Cams valve springs and Comp Cams 1.6 rockers.  He did 
stay with the stick rearend gearing.  Dad has only driven it a couple of times 
so far since the work was finished (on Monday) but, hs is real imressed.  We will
be doing some "testing" when I go out there for a visit next month.  I can't 
wait!

I was also telling dad what Bruce has his "stock" LT1 running.  Dad was most 
impressed that Bruce could do that with a "stock" car.

Thanks to all of those who took the time to post answers to my questions.  Dad
and I both appreciate it and all the information was valuable.

Mark

>  I was also telling dad what Bruce has his "stock" LT1 running.  Dad was most
>  impressed that Bruce could do that with a "stock" car.

OK. In reference to Mark's use of quotes around the word "stock", I confess.

I've disconnected the CAGS (Computer Aided (HAH!) Gear Selection) "feature",
which gets you fourth gear (at light throttle) when you thought you were getting
second :-( , AND, I've replaced the 5 quarts of Mobil 1 5W-30 oil that the
factory put in with 5 quarts of "aftermarket" Mobil 1 5W-30 oil :-). So, it
ain't stock, I guess. It's technically "stock" :-).

Come to think of it, the plastic connectors I used to plug the original CAGS
plugs weigh *at least* another quarter-ounce over stock, so I'm *sure* the car
would be in the 12s without all that extra weight :-).

Bruce

    Weight problem...............Yeah Right!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    TMW

The way I hear it, Jimmy, just before my birth, God appeared, and said to my
parents:

"You have a decision to make. Would you like your child to be handsome,
intelligent, knowledgeable, skillful in his piloting of late model musclecars,
happy ---- and fun to be with? ----

---- Or do you want him to be SKINNY?"

:-) :-)

Bruce

PS - GOOD CALL!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks, mom and dad! :-) :-) :-)

    
    I believe it was the great cooking by your lovely bride......
    
    
    TMW
    
    btw....I suppose your hoping for a low 12.XX now.....just like a 
    29 inch waist ......................  :-)

>    btw....I suppose your hoping for a low 12.XX now.....just like a 
>    29 inch waist ......................  :-)


A low 12? Maybe, but it'll take a long time, given my rules of engagement. I got
a full second out of the Plastic Bullet, but it took eight years.

A 29 inch waist?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've got 25 years of marriage into development and maintenance of these 42
inches of girth. There ain't a hope in hell of anything below maybe a 38 - and
then only on a cyclical basis :-).

Bruce

    I have an '85 Mustang GT, 107K miles, no problems so far until
    Tuesday night.  It has run 14.8 and 14.9 in the quarter mile
    so I though this notes file would be ok to ask my question in :-)
    I put this in dloact::carbuffs also.

    I was accelerating onto the highway "petal to the metal".
    At about 3500 rpm the engine just died, no power.  I shifted
    into neutral, rpm dropped to 0.  I tried to start it up again
    but it had problems cranking over, like the battery was dead.
    (I'm still coasting about 40mph).  eventually it turned over
    and I went home (about 1 mile) but it ran really rough.

    Yesterday morning it started no problem.  About 20 miles into
    my commute it just died again.  Shifted into neutral and was
    unable to start engine, it could hardly crank over.  I was
    still going about 45 mph and shifted into 4th and "jump started"
    it.  I went another mile and lost power again, 0 rpms, tried
    to start car but it would not crank over.  coasted into breakdown
    lane.  tried starting again but wouldn't crank over.  walked to
    the nearest gas station to get help.  the alternator was charging
    ok and fuel pressure was ok (6 pounds).  they recharged the battery
    and it started ok.  I drove to work (another 5 miles).  on the
    way home, after 10 miles it stalled again on the highway.

    At this point I think it's the battery, because after it stalls
    it won't even crank over.  However why would it just stall going
    down the highway after 10 miles if the alternator is ok??  unless
    the battery is "shorted out" somehow?? I also have a new ignition
    module so I don't think that is the problem.  Problem appears using
    both the old and new module.  I have fairly new plug wires, spark
    plugs, distributor cap, rotor also.

    I don't think it's bad gas or some kind of carburator problem
    because after stalling it should still crank over.  At this point
    I'm going to get a new battery, the original one lasted 4 years
    and this one now had 4 years on it so it's probably time for a
    new one anyways.  Any other idea's, like maybe the regulator??

    thanks,
    ken

You could have a broken or loose post on the battery, which would cause a
changing amount to be available to the engine.  I'd start with a new battery.

A friend of mine, however, did vaporize his '88 Mustang alternator while racing
a Corvette.  In his case, the car immediately lost power halfway thru the race, 
and the headlights got dim.  I think he was able to nurse it home.  Ford 
covered it under warranty.

Steve

    This is an update to 58.134 for those interested.

    1985 Mustang GT, 5.0 liter, 4 barrel carb, 107K miles.

    Problem:  After about 5 miles it stalls.  Normal idle is 750 rpm,
    idle now is about 500.  After about 5 miles it has trouble idling.
    Have to keep rpms up to prevent it from stalling.  Eventually it
    just stops and can't get it going again.  If you wait 30 minutes
    or 1 hour for it to cool down it starts up again no problem and
    goes another 5 miles or so.  However, if you just let it sit in
    the driveway and idle (rpms varying) it will keep idleing for over
    20 minutes and I can only duplicate problem while actually driving
    it for several miles.  When it "dies" it does crank over.

    History since last week:
    The battery was very weak, I installed new battery.
    The alternator was putting out 20 amps initially but after 
    warming up it fell to -40 amps.  Now has new alternator and
    regulator.  A gas station, where I originally stalled, put
    in a new ignition module.  I was thinking the bad alternator
    fried the ignition module but a mechanic over the phone said
    probably not.  Historically these Ford ignition modules are
    suppose to be realiable.  After engine was warmed up I checked
    out the coil with an ohmmeter and it appeared ok.   From routine
    maintenance it has new plug wires, spark plugs, distributor cap,
    rotor, and fuel filter.  I took out the EGR valve and it looked
    ok, no carbon buildup noticeable, and it appears to function ok.
    FWIW, last year I put in a new thermostat.

    At this point I think it's some kind of carb problem or fuel
    problem or vacuum leak. I inspected all hoses and couldn't find
    any potential vacuum leaks but have not ruled that out.
    It goes into the shop tommorrow.

    ken

    Ken, how long has it been since your oxygen sensor switch in your
    exhaust manifold?  Ford's are supposedly good for about 50K.  I
    had one go bad on my truck.  Gas station told me it was a plugged
    catalytic converter.  ($250 lighter in the wallet).  Two weeks
    later truck did the same thing.  It would run ok for 5 or 10
    miles then start doing exactly as you describe.  Shut it off for
    ten minutes and it would be fine for another 5 or 10 miles.
    I guess the defective sensor was telling the computer that it
    needed to make the carb run richer which then caused the plugs to 
    load up.  I was getting a load of black smoke out the tailpipe
    when it was acting up.  BTW, I have a '83 Ford Ranger with carb
    and computer module so it's probably not that different from your
    carbed Mustang.  (Ok, maybe you can go a little faster)
    Wayne

My guess is its not.  I think you are still on the original problem.  That is,
somewhere you have a massive short.  There ain't that many wires that will run
with 40 amps without melting and breaking the connection.  

I think you should start by folling the heavy black cable from the starter 
relay to the starter; perhaps its touching a header.  From there follow the
thickest wires coming off starter relay.  Headers and exhaust are the only
thing hot enough to melt insulation, but anything else with a sharp corner 
could wear through.

Eric

    I brought the car to Pynenburgs Service Station in Merrimack NH.
    During initial diagnosis they found the dwell on the distributor
    was delivering an unstable signal, and replaced the pick-up coil,
    although that was not the cause of the problem.

    The fuel pickup screen in the gas tank was full of dirt and sludge!

    They cleaned it out and installed an in-line fuel filter.  Just as
    well because I only have one rule when working on cars, I don't do
    gas tanks!  I drove for about 20 miles and it seems ok.  It pulls
    to 5000rpm like it used to.  It does stall a few times when not
    fully warmed up, but starts right up again.  I feel this is some
    kind of carb problem.  It still has trouble holding idle when
    coming to a stop (in neutral, brakes on).  They told me the
    secondary fuel system (4 barrel) was siphoning fuel and I should
    rebuild the carb.

    ken

So Mark, have you driven your dad's car yet? Gotten any numbers on it?

How about an update? I'm very interested in how it *feels*. As I've mentioned, a
stock LT-1 doesn't pull very hard, but another 100 ft/lbs or so ought to be just
the ticket!

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

I did not get a chance to drive dad's car but, I did ride in it.  When I drove
it in it's stock form, it seemed to run pretty good but, the Vega would have
undoubtedly toasted it in the quarter mile.  That just ain't so any more!

Unfortunately, when I was out in San Jose in November, all of the strips were
closed for the season.  Dad tried to line up a Vericom for the week that I was
out there but, that did not work out either.  We don't have any hard numbers on
the car yet.

The seat of the pants pants feel of the car is outstanding.  We went out and
found some roads with no traffic so that we could "play" some.  He made some 
1-3 gear runs with the ASR on.  First gear and second gear push you back in the
seat harder that I have ever experienced.  Just from the feel of it, I'd say
that with some driving practice (and slicks maybe), the car may touch the high
11 second mark in the quarter, maybe.  Low 12s are a certainty.

That Vortech has the most pleasant whine to it.  Kinda subtle but, loud enough
to let the competition know that all may not be as it seems.  The Borla exhaust
system also has a nice mellow sound to it but may be too loud for some people's
taste.

I'll post the numbers when I get some.  The only number I have is that the car
has seen an indicated 157 mph.  If you would like to contact my dad directly, he
can be reached at decwrl::"[email protected]".  His name is Jerry Forbes.

Mark

I've been thinking about what I can do to reduce the flex of my '88 T/A GTA.
Unfortunately it is a T-top.  It doesn't leak (yet), but the creaking drives
me nuts.  Given another chance, I would not buy a car like this with a T-top.

Subframe connectors seem like a good place to start.  I've read that welding
is preferred over bolt-ons.  Also, would a role bar help?  Anyone know a shop
that specializes in this type of work?  I live in Hudson, MA. 

    Re-1
     I have an 86 IROC without the T-Tops and the car is still solid, and a
    friend has an 89 with T's and his is like yours. The subframe
    connectors are probably not going to help, these cars do not have a
    subframe, they are unibody types. The 67-69 and 70-81 Cambirds did have
    a seperate subframe and these cars benifit from the welded in
    connectors. A roll cage will help to stiffen the chassis, but will cut 
    into interior space, and you will not be able to run the bars forward of 
    the rear of the door, unless you don't mind it showing through the
    T-Tops. A roll bar that runs from side to side and anchors behind the
    rear seat probably won't help much, you need to bridge the gap left
    when the roof was cut for the T's. Hope this helps.
                                                              John M.
    

It has been my experience that today's performance cars have been very highly
optimized by the factory, and it's not easy to find some major secret weapon
that will straighten out some factory "problem", and give you magical speed.

An exception may be in the intake path and tuning specs of the last-generation
5.0 Mustang, which would respond with something like three tenths of a second in
ET when you removed the air horn, popped in a K & N, and bumped the timing by
about three (or maybe four) degrees.

However, I remain convinced that the Mustang *is* an exception, and that those
easy tenths are getting harder and harder to come by.

Having said that, I believe that the recent minor mods I've made to the Thing
*may* be good for something near a tenth of a second, which, coincidentally, is
what I was hoping for.

I've installed a K & N, hogged out a replacement filter lid so that its opening
matches the full size of the filter, and installed an "airfoil" (originally in
the Plastic Bullet) in the throttle body.

I would provisionally recommend these changes for LT1s, and definitely for L98
cars.

On a similar note, I must say that I don't plan any exhaust changes yet, based
on my previous L98 experience where a major sound increase was party to a very
minor power increase, and also based on a recent article which stated (without
mentioning the actual name) that a complete Borla system on an LT1 was good for
only *9* horsepower. Since I regard Borla as being pretty much the best thing
out there, I don't think I could expect any more from anyone else's stuff.

9 horsepower would likely be good for around a tenth of a second, which seems
like a poor return for one's money at a cool grand for the package.

Hypertech claims 3 - 3 1/2 tenths from their chip package, which is why I'm
hoping for 2 :-).

As with the Bullet, I'll be trying out a number of things over time, but I think
my experience of a less than 50% hit rate on changes will be true with this car
as well.

As always, if anyone has some ideas, I'd be really pleased to listen :-).

Bruce

    Most "quick and cheap" improvements include changing the pulleys.  Does
    it really help and are there any major drawbacks?  I would assume that
    heating and charging would be effected.  How about power steering? 
    A/C?  If an engine has an air pump, does a pulley change cause a
    problem at emissions inspection?
    
    Wayne (who lives in NH where we don't (yet) have our tailpipe "sniffed"

Mustangs and L98 cars generally will get a tenth from a pulley set. What you
give up are the margins that the factory builds into their combinations. At
idle, for instance, you'll likely be in a discharge condition when using any
significant electrical power. This is important only if you've got the killer
stereo, or if you spend a bunch of time in stop and go traffic.

I have not heard of any problem with cooling, power steering or AC effectiveness
with a set of street pulleys, but, theoretically, you would overheat a hair
sooner, etc., in really murderous conditions.

I can't imagine that a pulley set would be very useful on LT1 cars, since the
water pump is shaft driven on those motors.

Bruce

Re: Chris

>						It has the 2.73 axle in it,
>    and I wonder how much difference the 3.08 would make ??

Not much. Maybe a tenth, *tops*, assuming you can hook up for the first 60 feet.
That 3.35 first gear means you can pull the long final drive gearing off the
line without a problem. I have run against a stock (K & N filter, horn removed,
timing advanced, pulleys) 2.73-geared LX hatchback that pulled a 2.07 short time
against me, and ran a 13.9.

I also know of an LX sedan with 2.73s that has a best of 13.84 @ 101+, with the
aforementioned mods and a ram air kit.

Once you start getting into more serious modifications, or you get a pair of
slicks, steeper gears can be of use.

If you're thinking of steeper gearing for more responsiveness in all around
street driving, you might want to find an AOD driver who's gone for the
replacement axle setup with 3.55s or 3.73s, and buy his/her 3.27 axle.

Bruce

    
     Bruce,
    
          Thats true, traction problems would probably hinder getting much
    out of it. So, without improved traction would 3.27's help much ??
    
          Maybe nitrous ! I wonder what kind of gain I should expect from
    say a 125 hp. set up ?
    
    
          Chris

Chris, as I said, if you're looking for more responsiveness on the *street*,
consider 3.27s, because you're likely to find an axle assembly just as cheaply
as a 3.08.

I am not a nitrous fan.

Bruce

    re: Note 58.150 by WMOIS::WHITE_C 
    
    >So, without improved traction would 3.27's help much ??
    You'd probably feel the improvement in your rear end (not the one on
    the car).  I'd bet a good sticky set of street tires would be able
    to handle the additional gear.  I think you'd run into problems going
    to anything higher due to the cam.  I went from 3.42 to 4.11 and the
    car gets up and goes.  Traction _is_ my problem though because I'm
    sporting a big block chevy in a camaro.  This means I have to adjust
    my driving style (i.e. don't stomp on it real quick).  (FWIW: I was
    able to increase my above gearing because I went to a big cam and high 
    stall among other mods). 
    
    I don't recall from your origonal note if you have a stick or automatic 
    trans.  If you have an auto you may want to check your torque converter 
    stall speed and see if it's compatable with a 3.27 gear.
    
    Re: Nitrous
    I believe the 125 kit would be good for a 1 second cut in et.  It's
    difficult to say because it could (will) cause the car to be tempermental 
    in the traction department, thus it would be inconsistant when you're
    bracket racing if used improperly.  I believe Bruce dislikes Nitrous 
    because it tends to turn your engine into a pile of goo when 
    mis-used.  You need to have a 100% reliable ignition/fuel system.  Screw 
    up in either department _once_ and you're gonna be walking home.  A
    125 horsepower shot is the MAX you should use on a well maintained
    STOCK engine.
    
    I've been in a nitrous car (Buick GN) which had 100K miles on it and
    the car ran - very well.  The trick is how you use the nitrous when
    driving.
    
    Mike

    
     Thanks Bruce,
    
       Maybe I will look for a 3.27 set up.. The car now has 126,000 miles
    on it, but it still seems to run strong.
    
       Just last night it developed a vibration, and started to make a
    little grinding noise from the rear of the car. I think its a 
    U-joint. Would an aluminum drive shaft ofer ANY performance gain ?
    
       Mike,
    
       The car is a 5 speed, so torque converters are not a problem :^)
    
       Looks like I may not make it to NED friday night :^(
    
    
       Chris
    

Some recent, unrelated facts have been coming up that support my contention that
the LT1 is absolutely the hot tip in today's street-wienie pure-stock wars.

Item: "Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords" just tried to do a shootout between an LT1
Z28 and the new Mustang Cobra. They couldn't actually pull it off, since it
began snowing and didn't stop on the day the cars showed up at Atco (January
3rd), but, they did get in two passes (perhaps at another date) with the Camaro.
Results were a 13.59 and a 13.67, I think, with both runs at over 105 mph.
Admittedly, they were running at very high air densities, but this was also an
*automatic* Camaro. One thinks they may have glommed onto the automatic in the
hopes that the Mustang might be in the ballpark, but regardless, for a
vociferous Ford publication to print these numbers makes me believe they were
absolutely for real.

Item: A gentleman in a Formula Firebird automatic went a 13.70 at 101+ up at
Epping a couple of weeks back, with no changes (as yet) from stock.

Item: Rick Nelson (the gentleman with the red '89 Vette with various
Lingenfelter pieces, running low 11s at 120+ through the mufflers) recently
bought a '94 Vette coupe with automatic, and laid down the maiden passes last
Wednesday night. He began with a 13.75, and worked his way down from there. Best
was a 13.48, and, according to Rick, there's a 13.3 in the car. I tend to
believe what Rick says, having watched him make a bunch of passes in his '89,
and he's been at this for a long time. Of course, Rick will almost undoubtedly
get the most out of a particular car, but the '94s have that electronically
controlled 700R4 that shifts at the perfect rpm *every time*, so the only thing
remaining is the launch, which means he didn't actually perform magic to get
that 13.48.

Item: The Swamp Thing *averaged* 13.23 during the month of October '93, with a
best of 12.97 (perfect pass, perfect day), while 100.00% stock. This year, it
has averaged 12.99, with a best of 12.87 (another perfect pass, perfect day)
with only the intake mods. Latest results have me believing that the Hypertech
chip and thermostat are good for a solid tenth, which, combined with the K & N,
filter lid and airfoil's addition of a tenth, gives me in the vicinity of 25
hundredths over stock, as near as I can tell. I haven't put together a perfect
pass with the chip yet, but I expect to in the fullness of time :-). If I can
find a way around the 1-2 whelspin problem, I'll get yet *another* tenth, I'm
sure.

I mention this last to illustrate my current belief that the aftermarket has
delivered, and will hopefully continue to deliver items that can really help the
various LT1 combinations. Of course, I don't expect the LT1 stuff to match the
incredible array of smog legal stuff currently available for the 5.0 Fords, but,
over time, it may come close.

These are the best of times :-).

Bruce

    
    Just got a ride in "Swamp Thing"  Aside from the fact that it's
    beautiful to look at, and clean as an operating room -- this car flat
    honks!!  Bruce ripped off one decent 2-3 powershift which sent the
    speedo needle hurling towards 85 MPH in a blink.  Then we pulled out of
    the MRO4 lot.......Just kidding...
    
    Hey all you wienies out there.  Stop trying to get a monitor induced
    suntan.  It's a beautiful day outside!  Get outta the dammed office!!!
    
    Bruce, it must be the MSG, honest.....
    
    Tom

    Thanks Tom,
    When ever I get out of the office....it starts to rain! Plus a little
    thunder/ lightn'g and hight winds.......... we even had a power outtage
    and I stayed in so it would not rain.
    
    TMW....who wants to go play with the Falcon.....

>        Bruce ripped off one decent 2-3 powershift.............

Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to enlist your judgemental aid, here.

Roll tape.

OK. Notice how the tach is climbing into the 5s, and moving fairly smartly. Note
that the gentleman on my right appears to have a good grip on the passenger door
handle as we approach the correct rpm for our next cockpit activity.

THERE!

Oh. Wanna see it again?  :-)

OK. Slow motion this time.

Note that the tach needle has just eclipsed the 5500 hash mark on the dial face,
and that it barely jumps as the clutch is dabbed and the lever suddenly
*appears* in the third gear slot, all movement apparently happening between
video frames :-). Note also that the engine note barely climbs as the shift is
made, even with the new 6200 (up from 5850) cutoff that the chip provides. You
can see that the hood hasn't appeared to move at all during this entire
endeavor, and, although you can't feel anything through the magic of videotape,
let me assure you that there is no unseemly lurch as a result of this process,
and you can hear that there isn't any scotch-tape-off-a-roll rubber being
burned, either.

I guess that DECENT (sob!) is the best I can do.  :-)

You're a hard taskmaster, Tom. Next time I'll try to avoid using the clutch
altogether :-).

Bruce

PS - Don't forget. I tanked up on MSG, too :-).

    
    Okay, okay, it was better than decent.  It was...pretty good.  No, I
    really meant it was good....  Alright.  It was a great &^^(($@&$*(&$
    shift.  In fact probably faster than Mr. T. Hydromatic could have done
    himself.  
    
    Although I take exception to the "didn't feel a thing part"  From my
    cowering perspective that shift felt pretty darned *HARD* Granted the
    car didn't get outta shape or smoke the hides, but I certainly felt
    something.  (Aside from the pure shock of seeing a big guy like Bruce
    actually move that fast....)
    
    Neat....
    
    Tom

OK. Now that I've gotten Tom to lie, I'll swear to it.

It was a great &^^(($@&$*(&$ shift.

:-)

Bruce

PS - Now I'm gonna try and learn a new word:

con-sis-tence: n., 1. Agreement or compatibility between things or parts.
2. UNIFORMITY.

Someday.  :-)

    You guys crack me up.....
    
    
    TMW

re: a few back on the Camaro/birds

I test drove a Z28 a few weeks back.  I must say...IT WAS FAST...and I think it 
only had the 2.73 gears too.  Ditto Bruce's comments on the Mustang rags reports
on the Camaro....every one I've read likes the car...thats unheard of given the 
typical chest beating that goes on in those publications!  
	The things I didn't like about the car was the low seating position and 
low hood line(you can't tell where the nose ends).  Also, this one didn't have 
the GS-C tires...it had an excellent, smooth ride, but I wonder if it has a 
governed top speed in this trim...the speedo only read to 110
(others I've seen say 150+...which the car can hit).  There is quite a bit of 
distortion looking thru the front windshield near the corners.  This is due to
the slope of it and the way it curves.  I got used to it by the end of the ride 
though.  The engine doesn't idle as smooth as my GT.  It definitely felt "loppy"
a minor nit given the power it makes.  
	I just drove it a few miles around Fitchburg.  I got about half way into 
the throttle at about 10 mph at on point...I think any further would have lit 
up the tires from the seat of the pants feel...WOW!
	They were REALLY anxious to make a sale this day too.  They already were 
$2k off of sticker as I kept trying to leave with out the usual sit down.  Luckily
the Mustang was still in hibernation and not available for trading:-).  I kept
telling them I work for DEC this week but....
	

Rich

    a ways back there was a discussion on performance one can expect from
    minor adds such as exhaust..I agree with Bruce A. etc. that on the
    newer LT1's and perhaps the relatively new Z's and T/A's there is not
    much to gain however; on the older ones exhaust can make alot of
    difference..The mid 80's Z's and T/A's had quite restrictive exhaust
    systems..I can use my 84 T/A as an example..It is a 305 H.O. with auto
    and 3:73 rear..Out of the box it was a very dissapointing 15.4..My
    first step was to redo the entire exhaust..I went with headers (smog
    legal), high flow cat., high flow muffler and larger diameter
    pipes..With just this change it went 14.85..Big time improvement..Plus
    the exhaust was now capable of flowing the air if I made additional
    changes (which I did)..Unfortunately from that point on I cannot single
    out what each modification added as I did mass changes..
    
    Jim

Took a Z28 6-speed convertible out for a ride on Sunday. My bride has made some
noises about getting something sportier when it's time to replace the Teutonic
Terror, so I stopped by the local dealer when I spotted a black Z28 coupe in the
showroom.

With auto and T-tops, it was pushing $22K, but would be just under $21K with all
the right stuff - sans T-tops, of course. The eager sales guy offered a ride in
the convertible when I explained the situation.

What the heck. :-)

I picked up the bride, and ma and pa kettle go cruising for awhile around the
streets of Acton. :-)

Nope.

The exhaust makes all the right boy-racer sounds (louder by a fair bit compared
to the Thing), and the Borg-Warner T6 is definitely a slicker unit than the ZF,
but there was a bunch of cowl shake over bumps, and some annoying resonances on
the overrun when decelerating down through around 2000 rpm on the tach - at
least with the top down. In this particular example, the driver's door panel was
loose and rattled around a bit as the body snaked its way over the bumps.

All in all, ma and pa vote no. Ma actually voted "no way" - even with the
locally installed leather interior.

I guess our profiling days are pretty far behind us.

Sigh. :-)

Bruce

Last week, I installed a new clutch and flywheel.  The old clutch has been 
done for a while, and the flywheel was covered with heat cracks.  This scared
me a bit as I don't use a blowsheild, yet I powershift at over 6000 rpms.

So into my modified 1988 Mustang GT, with the titatium lower facia, went a 
ford motorsport billet steel flywheel, and 10.5" centerforce pressure plate
with a ford motorsport clutch disc.  This flywheel weighed 20 lbs., compared
to the 17 lbs for the original.  But due to the shape of the new one, the steel
flywheel packs more rotational inertia.  It was obvious after driving it.

So off the Epping on Saturday - the 28th.  First run was 12.79 at 106.5mph.
Great! I thought becuase I launched from only 4750 rpms; 1.81.   However,
that turned out to be my best run of the day.  Even with another 10 or so
banzai passes.  I was getting 12.85's average - now at 105.5 mph.

On the way home I noticed that I had a severe drivetrain vibration coming in
at 80 mph and getting worse with increasing speed.  At 95-100 I get this
wonderful harmonic oscillation superimposed on the base vibration. Neat. :-) 
WaaWaaWaaWaaWaaWaa with the Waa's at 1 per second.
It wasn't present on the drive up.  From the feel, I'm pretty sure its a 
twisted axle or U-Joint.  I could be the transmission though, because the 
lever transmits the vibration perfectly.

Anyhow, the 31 spline axles and Auburn differential are on their way.

Eric

Eric,

	maybe you should put a Tremec 5 spd in.

rich

Rich,
    
    If Fortes Parts Connection offered a trade-in for my T-5(s), the Tremec
    would already be installed :-(.
    
My left side stock 28  spline axle had a slight bow.  That was likely causing
the high speed vibration.
                         
The beefcake 31 spline Motorsport axles are installed - along with 
complementory 31 spline Auburn Differential unit.
                         
These new axles look much much stronger  then the stock 28 spline axles they
are replacing.  The narrowest part of the new axle is thicker then the widest
part of the stock axles. 
                         
The down side, however, is that it *sounds* like I have a truck rear end 
installed.  The bearing drone is noticeable.  5500-6000 rpms and 3  lbs. less
psi in the slicks.  Combined with a shorter accessory belt, I'm looking for
a 12.6 in this heat. :-).

Eric

"Ah - so, Grasshoppers. And what is the lesson we have learned today?"

"We have learned, oh Buddha-bellied master of the launch, that we have only to
listen to you, and we shall be rulers of all the fiberglass realm."

I show up for Vette day at NED with the SUPER STOCK (wienie) DODGE, 'cause the
Thing is *still* in the shop, being repainted to eliminate some acid rain
etchings that appeared to be getting worse over time. On my one and only pass
with the now stock-computered Dodge (15.91 @ 85.62), Paul (the starter) walks up
to the car and says "Of all days, today is the day you bring *THAT*?" I explain,
and then get to make a long, thoughtful pass down the 1320 :-).

I'm here because the bride gave me one of those looks after The Week From Hell
at Digital, and said "You should go up there anyway. You need to." I wasn't
really up for it, what with losing some close colleagues on Friday, but you guys
know what I'm talking about when I mention "one of those looks".

Still in all, it's not a bad day, and there's a fair amount of interesting iron
in the staging lanes. Best of all, being unencumbered by thoughts of my next
pass, or what I should dial in for the afternoon Vette-only bracket race, I'm
free to roam the pits and staging lanes, inflicting the Augenstein litany of The
One True Quarter Mile on any poor unfortunate who gets within range. :-)

The first victim is Charlie, who has a '90 six-speed coupe, with chip,
thermostat, etc.

"Hi! How's it run?"

"Pretty good. I got a 13.9 out of it once, but it's not doin' so well, today."

"What kind of short times are you getting?"

Etc., etc.

I give him the L98 litany, along with all my normal patter about starting
*exactly* the way you do it on the street, only on steroids :-). "2500 rpm. Full
throttle almost right away. Hold the rpm steady by riding the clutch." etc.

Click. 13.67!

I've got a friend for life. :-)

Later, Carl walks up, saying "I've been looking for you for weeks! They're
telling me you're running bottom 13s bone stock! How're you doing it? I can't
get below 13.5. Today, I've gone 13.54 and 13.57"

I've known Carl for years, since he was running an '86 4+3 coupe that would go
13.9s. I know he had a big block back in the '60s, and, since the '86, he's had
a GNX and ZR1 (12.6, stock), among other things. Now he's got a '93 40th
Anniversary six-speed convertible, as yet unchanged from the way it came out of
Bowling Green. You should know that Carl knows exactly what to do with a shift
lever and clutch pedal, so that part is OK.

"What kind of short times are you getting?"

Etc., etc. :-)

I give him the LT1 litany, along with the normal patter :-). When I tell him
32-3500 at the start, to match today's good traction, he says "You're kidding!"
"OK", sez I. "3000 rpm and no less. Full throttle *instantly* and hold the
rpm......" etc., etc.

On his next pass, he forgets the part about riding the clutch. YEEHAH! Roll down
the right window so you can look downtrack! :-)

"Yeah yeah. Sorry. It's hard to unlearn what you've been doing for years."

Tell me about it. :-)

The next time Carl lines up the maroon convertible, I'm in the staging lanes,
and I'm looking at the tail at launch, hoping to *not* see it drop suddenly by
an inch or two, which is what happens when you're sudden with the clutch. Sure
enough, the car just eases out. Carl, you devil, you've got it!

I run down the staging lanes, abandoning some earnest kibitzing with a Mustang
pilot :-), to get an angle on the finish lights for the right lane.

Click. 13.32!

Carl is ecstatic, and he can't believe getting two tenths out of a little clutch
feathering, but frankly, I feel vindicated. I've been looking for somebody
else's six-speed coupe to take for a run, because I've been convinced that
although the Swamp Thing is a healthy specimen, it simply isn't a freak. The
Thing would've run 13.0s on Saturday, and, with my feeling that my current mods
are good for two tenths, that would put Carl's rig right in the ball park. Given
100% air, that convertible would be going 13.2, which is maybe a tenth off a
good run with a bone-stock Thing at 100%.

Yup. These smog legal fiberglass machines are faster than ever.

Bruce


PS - The other thing to learn, Grasshopper, is that when you can't get out there
and rule on the 1320, being King Of The Staging Lanes is an acceptable
substitite :-).

Once again, my bride was right.

    Questions for the day:
    
    (Insert reminder here)
    I've got an '87 Mustang GT that's (as far as I can tell) stock.
    
    In these hallows sectors-n-cylinders, (and in Mustang Montly) it has 
    been discussed that one should immediately remove the silencer portion 
    of ones airbox to produce a little better breathing.  Seems quite
    logical to me, actually (thats scary).
    
    So, I go home last night and pull apart my airbox, and all it is is a 
    box.  I didn't see anything in any fender.  Where is this cork located?
    Perhaps someone already removed mine - it DOES 'sound' like I have an
    'Electrolux Induction System" under my hood.  Can someone tell me where
    this silly thing is??  If mine is already gone, does anyone have the
    piece, so I can put it back in and see/feel the diff??
    
    On another subject, while I was cleaning my aircleaner, I was dorking
    around with the throttle body.  I open up the throttle plate and stick
    my finger in the hole, and it comes out with carbon all over it.  Is 
    it normal for there to be dirt in the throttle body??  Seems like it 
    ain't.  Whats wrong here?  If it's all dirty, I'd bet thats my the car 
    gets a little wheezy at 4K-rpm.
    
    jc (Who doesn't want to be beaten by any Helmreich-driven
        stock-antiques :=)

>    So, I go home last night and pull apart my airbox, and all it is is a 
>    box.  I didn't see anything in any fender.

Somebody has removed it already. If you replace it, you may hear a difference,
but it's unlikely you'd feel it. The combo of air horn, K & N, and timing is
generally held to be good for around three tenths in the quarter, which is a
perceptible difference, but not a major one.

>    On another subject, while I was cleaning my aircleaner, I was dorking
>    around with the throttle body.  I open up the throttle plate and stick
>    my finger in the hole, and it comes out with carbon all over it.

That's normal. It's caused by reversion in the intake manifold ("standoff" for
old-hand carb guys). Some of the intake mixture gets pushed back into the
manifold at low engine speeds due to the intake valve being open after bottom
dead center. You get a certain amount of coking due to heat. If the carbon
buildup is *thick*, then that isn't normal. Generally speaking, the throttle
body and EGR passageways should be kept clean. Some "smog legal" (safe for
sensors) gumout type stuff should be sprayed around the throtttle plate and EGR
passageways - just as if you were cleaning a carb.

You should get somebody familiar with 5.0 Mustangs to drive your car, to
determine if you really have a performance problem or not.

Have you taken it to the strip?

Bruce

    Nope - no trip to the strip - although Pueblo is calling out to me...
    I wanna see if my new centerforce clutch can handle it.  :-)
    
    I will get the can of carb-type cleaner and clean it out...
    I'm gonna do plugs and wire tonight also - just for grins.
    
    I'm also looking around to see if there was a recall on '87 Cats -
    I understand they can get clogged up and wreck performance too.
    Do you know of any??
    
    You say K&N - Good stuff on bikes, so it must be good for cars too.
    The one picture I saw came off the throttle body and was just hangin'
    in mid-air under the hood.  That obviously isn't the one you're
    talking about, hm??  I wonder if Widners here in Colorado has 'em
    stock?              

    Another annoying thing about cats - there is this rattle coming from 
    under the car...  I thought I'd read that the cats were known to 
    rattle - so I called up Academy Ford in Colo. Spgs (Thanks Steve), and 
    they said bring it down - we'll replace your cats for ya - FREE!
    The guy said they are known for rattling and clogging.  :-)  :-)
    
    Hmm, I wonder if they'll put a pair of hi-flow cats instead of stock?
    :-)
    
    Anyway, I've never done this recall thing...  Is there any gotchas
    I should know about??
    
    Thanks!                                                         
    jc

    More questions:
    
    FWIW - I checked the initial timing on the 'stang last night.  It was
    at 16 degrees btdc without anything 'unplugged' from the distibuter, so 
    I left it (the car doesn't ping).  Does that sound about right (I'm at
    6500ft) ??
    
    - What thermostat shall I put in the car without wrecking the heat?
    
    - Where is this silly air-silencer on the box?  This thing DOES have a 
      snorkel arrangement that pokes thru the radiator support (presumably
      to pick up cool air) is THIS what I should remove?
    
    - I've heard about people having their throttle bodies bored out...
      Is this a budget way to get some more horsepower, or would I be 
      wasting my efforts?
    
    - Is it cool to run synthetic oil in the motor after 69K miles or
      who_knows_what?  Tranny?  Rear end?
    
    I should plug my new clutch and rebuilt T5 here as well - The clutch is 
    a centerforce unit.  It's got a much nicer feel than the stocker and
    is a LOT firmer on engagement - I don't feel any vibrations or anything
    either.  Also, since having the tranny gone thru (the 1-2nd synchro was
    fried), it shifts a LOT nicer too - real positive stops and that.
    
    More on the clutch - I'd thought that the clutch I had before
    (presumably stock) was too firm, engaged too close to the floor, and
    slipped all the way up until my knees were in the steering wheel.
    The new clutch grabs at about 1/2 way thru the travel of the pedal, 
    and is fully engaged at 3/4 the way - it's also got a MUCH lighter
    feel than the stock.  I'd recommend it (fwiw).
    
    jc (Who's sportin' a woodie to go to PMI for a timeslip!)

    Update!:
    
    'Allisyn' and I went toy shopping last night.  The intent was to
    purchase a K&N 'Filter Charger' for her  (Umm, thats "Allisyn Hell"
    :-).  
    
    So, we head down to Widners (local speed shop), and he has 'em in
    stock.  I'm ready to clunk down my $44 (12oz can of oil and filter),
    when he brings out this HUGE element.  I say "Gee, man, thats not the 
    right filter - mine is 1/4 the acreage of that monster".  So he double
    checks, "Nope, thats the right one".   
    
    Not one to take this abuse lying down, we grab a screw driver (hint) 
    and head out to remove my aircleaner.  He agrees - it'll never fit.  
    So...  I say why don't you look up this FRAM number and see what it 
    fits in.  Hey!  This is NOT a 4cyl. Mustang - but it appears to have 
    the 4cyl. airbox in it.
    
    Editorial comment:  I guess this is why I couldn't find this ellusive
    air silencer, hmm??
    
    So, off to the bone yard we go (Allisyn and myself).  I find an airbox
    from an '87 T-Bird 5.0L ($20).  This thing is HUGE in comparison to the
    one Allisyn has.  Guess what?  The car I yanked from had just arrived
    in the yard, and it had a K&N in the box.  I'll be going to Widners
    today to get cleaner and oil to 'revamp' this one.  
    
    So for $20, I got the correct air box, the silencer, a good-condition
    K&N.  Plus while I was there, I picked up sound deadener and carpet for
    the hatch area, ash trays, jack, hold-down, etc...
    
    Anyway, I get home and rip out the itty-bitty airbox, and lay the new
    one in place, hose-it-up, and go for a little bomb...
    
    Lemme tell ya what guys, this car is now a rocket ship in comparison!
    Also, that annoying whine I mentioned is GREATLY reduced, being
    replaced by the '4bbl howling-sound'.  There is now longer that 
    "shouldn't this thing REV a little more?" question in my mind.  I hit 
    third gear, and the speedo is buried.  I also have to keep an eye on
    red-line, because 1st and 2nd feel like they'll bury the tach as well
    (that wasn't the case with the old airbox).  I just can't put into 
    words what a difference this box makes - it's like someone put a 
    supercharger in there!
    
    Editorial note 2:  Steve Helmreich drove Allisyn the other night (with
    old airbox).  Today at lunch, he'll drive it again.  I expect he'll
    notice a spectacular increase as well.  :-)
    
    All this, coupled with the new cats that get installed tomorrow, and
    I'm a very happy camper.
    
    What I expect happened is that the previous owner stuffed the front,
    and replaced the whole front clip from a 4cyl mustang, and kept the
    airbox as well.  I will also have to cut a hole where the silencer 
    goes, as the 'new' airbox sits against the fender wall, and there is
    NO hole there for it.  The good news is that the weld job is not real
    noticeable from the clip replacement; at least the repair person did
    a nice job (except for his parts choice).
    
    jc
    
    PS - Now I'm REALLY wanting to run to Pueblo this weekend!!  *Now* this
         car feels like that 14-15 second machine.  We'll see.
    
                                               

    
    
    Hey Coop,
    
    Check out Widners for the larger throttle body,  they might have it. 
    Just for fun I called America Speed for 'ya,   Gary at 597-3033 is
    ready to answer your questions.  He has a 65mm throttle body for $275,
    (not MY money   %^)  )  which is 10% over stock,  which your 5.0 can 
    handle w/no probs... He also has an 85mm,  but many mods.  must  take
    place prior to installation of that one.  I also asked him about 
    a Street-Strip chip,  he has an upgraded chip by Hypertech for about
    $249,  which will get you 10-15 hp.  Both items can be had in 2-3 days
    after ordering.
    
    Hey,  'ya gonna follow the lead,  like I said,  I've got my own money
    to burn on the 64' SS,  but I'll help you spend yours!
    
    Rob	

    They tell me the chip is in stock over at Widners...  But now that 
    I have my induction working right (wow!), stick with it and enjoy...
    When I get bored, I'll add something.  :-)
    
    I think the next thing for Allisyn would be a chip, or a throttle
    body set up...  I understand you can have your bored - Any info
    on that??
    
    Well, Steve and I went and painted a reasonably long pair of stripes 
    up the West exit hill at lunch...  I hate these tires - they don't even 
    squeel.  :-(
    
    jc (Havin' fun now... :-)

    
    Hi Jc,
    
       Try a set of underdrive pulley's and an MSD ignition box. Two
    simple mods that offer increased performance.
    
    
       Chris
    

    Oh!  Yeah, I meant to mention the pullies - inexpensive and easy,
    as I understand it.  :-)
    
    Thanks for the feedback!
    jc

Hi,

JC tonight is the last Friday night down at PMI in Pueblo. There is at least
3 Decies headed down. Why don't you take your car down and get some real hard
copy numbers on what it will run in the 1/4 ??? To run time only is only $3.00.

					Brian... B766

    I'm there!

    RE: jc 
    
    Its good to here that you got the intake sorted out.
    
    Here's what you do now - in order.
    
    Buy, beg, or borrow a timing light.  Locate the spout connector.  Take
    whatever means necessary, but do *nothing* with timing until you locate
    the spout connect.  16 degrees of timing at idle with the spout connector 
    in place is reasonable. 35 degrees at idle is also reasonable. I have a
    Crane Interceptor that allows me to watch the ignition timing as  I
    drive.  The timing varies based on engine temp., air temp, air
    pressure, time since startup, etc..  Its futile to try and make timing
    modifications under these circumstances.  Pulling the spout connector
    removes all these timing variations and fixes ignition at its initial,
    mechanical setting.  10 degrees BTDC is stock.  You should set initial
    somewhere between 15 to 20 degrees BTDC.  That sounds like a lot, but
    it is *the* key to making your mustang fast.  If you are getting ping,
    you should lower the initial timing or run higher octane.  Since you're
    at 6500 ft. I expect that its possible you could run as much as 24
    degrees initial, and never here ping.  Don't bother though; not until
    you change the heads and/or cam :-).
    
    Meticulous care when setting the timing will get you *all* power that a
    chip could offer - for free, and its safer then tampering with an iron
    clad engine control system.
    
    Underdriver pulleys are great.  Buy them.  Make sure you get a setup
    that turns the alternator fast enough to keep a charge.  This is going
    to dependent alot on your driving habits.  In general, the sizes used
    by ford motorsport, and auto specialties are perfect for daily drivers.
    Kaufmanns set with the big aluminum alternator will give you charging
    trouble.
    
    The K&N is essential, and the intake silencor is helpful.  Hold off on
    the ram air.  I did alot of experimenting with this, and ram air is not
    always equal to more air.  In fact, ram air for most cases, hurt low
    speed airflow to a very very small degree.  I finally saw some
    independent confirmation of my findings a couple months ago in a
    magazine test.  They tryed allo the popular ram airs and had similar
    results to mine.  For static filtered flow, nothing could match the K&N
    with the silencer removed!  All ram air kits tested should some losses
    due to tubing, funnel, filter, whatever.
    
    Eric

    >Its good to here that you got the intake sorted out.
    
    And what a diff it made.  Suddenly, I've got lots of performance,
    and my daily-driver mileage went from 15mpg to 19 (around town),
    and 25mpg out on the highway (Pueblo - see next reply).
    
    >Buy, beg, or borrow a timing light.  Locate the spout connector.  Take
    >whatever means necessary, but do *nothing* with timing until you locate
    >the spout connect.
    
    Is that the 'plug' in the front of the distibuter with about 5 wires
    coming out??  I did borrow a timing light and set the initial timing
    at 16BTDC.  And I did unplug that thing with now change to the
    timing...  So, maybe I should crank it up some more, hmm? (With the
    spout connector out?).
    
    >Underdriver pulleys are great.  Buy them.  Make sure you get a setup
    >that turns the alternator fast enough to keep a charge.  This is going
    >to dependent alot on your driving habits.  In general, the sizes used
    >by ford motorsport, and auto specialties are perfect for daily drivers.
    >Kaufmanns set with the big aluminum alternator will give you charging
    >trouble.
    
    These will be my next purchase, for sure.
    
    >The K&N is essential, and the intake silencor is helpful.
    
    Done!  And no silencer.
    
    Thanks for the tips!!
    jc

    Oh, I did say to read here, didn't I?
    
    I actually drove Allisyn to Pueblo Friday only to be rained out.
    Bummer...  I was anxious to get a couple of time slips (benchmark).
    It's safe to assume I'll be there again Friday.
    
    Actually, it worked out well:
    
    - I met Brian and a gang of other guys down there.
    
    - There were a couple other 5.0L mustang owners there, and I listened
      intently to what they had to say.
    
    - Saw a chevy-chassis VW bug bodied machine that had a MENTAL cam in 
      it...  Wow.  The ground shook when this guy fired the thing up...

The SPOUT (Spart OUTput) connector is just a jumper in series with the SPOUT 
wire on the TFI module.  The TFI module is connected to your distributor with 2 
screws, is grey, and has 6 wires coming out of it.  One of those wires is
the SPOUT control - I beleive its the 2nd from the top.  Follow that wire about 
a foot or so, to a black plastic connector.  That is the SPOUT connector.  

sorta looks like this.
              _________
      wire   | base of |____|   Pull this piece out 
=============|connector|    | <--------------------
=============|         |____|
             |_________|    | 

You need to set the static timing with the jumper pulled out. After setting
the timing make sure you put the jumper back in. Otherwise you'll get no advance.

Eric

    Excellent!  Thanks!!
    
    BTW - I'm gonna head back to Pueblo again Friday - Anyone wanna go?
    I've got one fellow who wants to go with his '70 Mach I (351C)...
    I might have to line up against him.  :-)

I think you're taking the right path here, in terms of getting everything "right"
with the car, then taking a baseline, etc., and you've gotten good advice from
Eric.

I've got the impression that your air filter and housing are sitting under the
hood, and your engine is breathing uderhood air, since you don't have the
obligatory hole in the fenderwell yet. If that is so, then getting this item
squared away will make another significant difference in power, since the stock
factory setup gets cold (dense) air from the fenderwell, instead of warm
underhood air.

Every 7 - 8 degree drop in temperature gains about 1% in power.

If it's inconvenient to make a factory-sized hole in the fenderwell, then you
might consider a smaller hole that you can run 3" or 4" tubing through, and
connect that to a conical K & N filter mounted inside the fenderwell. My son has
this setup on his Saleen, and it flows more than enough air to feed a
Vortech-inspired (5+ psi) 5.0. The 5.0s have an inspection/work-through port in
the right fenderwell, near the strut tower. It has a plastic plug/cover that is
easily removed. We used that port to route the tubing. If you have that port, it
might be more convenient for you to use that port than to cut a new one.

Re the advice to get a larger throttle body and an MSD ignition:

As mentioned, a stock motor is a very well balanced design, and these mods are
unlikely to show any significant power gains. The factory made sure that
everything works well together on the stock setup. Re the chip: As Eric
mentioned, going with extra initial spark advance gets you pretty much the same
extra snap as a chip would, so save your money.

If you decide to build a really strong runner, then going with a larger throttle
body will make sense at some point along the line, as will an MSD.

If it were me, I'd go with a mass air conversion kit as my first investment, *if*
I were planning on building a runner. Mass air buys you smooth running with
numerous mods, while your current speed density setup buys you driveability
problems when you change things. On the other hand, going with mass air and *not*
changing things means you'll probably slow down a tad.

Bruce

PS - I ran short of time when I replied to you in .169 re the buildup of deposits
in the intake manifold. In addition to reversion, you've also got *exhaust* in
the intake, due to exhaust reversion during overlap at small throttle openings,
and due to the EGR. At small throttle openings, you've got high vacuum in the
intake, so when the intake valve opens just before top dead center (and the
exhaust valve is not quite closed yet) you'll get some exhaust pumped back into
the intake manifold, since the cylinder is at above atmospheric pressure due
largely to exhaust back pressure.

The EGR also feeds exhaust into the intake at "middling" throttle positions.

Bottom line: Your intake is a pretty crazy place to be, almost anytime :-).

    Bruce - 
    
    Thanks for taking the time to reply.
    
    RE: The airbox...  It was definately WRONG, so I picked up the correct
    box (or close anyway - from an '87 5.0L T Bird).  What a diff.  Anyway,
    I also borrowed some really good snips from the neighbor and cut "as 
    close to factory" looking hole and properly mounted it.   As long as 
    you don't remove the airbox, you'd never know it was a driveway hack...
    I think Steve will back me up here... :-)  While I was at the boneyard,
    I also picked up some other stuff to continue with the "make it correct
    first" phase.  It's pretty darn close.  I have a rear hatch window seal
    that needs replaced (it leaks a little).  I also had brandie-new
    factory CATS installed.  There were some after market cats on there 
    (Ya know, the CAP specials?), and they were hacked and leaking a
    little, PLUS rattling...  So...
    
    I think next on the list would be street pulleys and a cat-back system.
    Man, is BORLA stuff REALLY that good!?  $800 for a CatBack?!?  Yike!
    
    New question - whats up with 2 and three chamber mufflers?  Since this
    is a daily driver (racer fashion perhaps?) I'd like to keep the noise
    down, but would really get off on the nice low-key growl that these 
    systems seem to inspire...  :-)  So, should it be FlowMaster or ??
    Two or Three chamber?

I think the Borla system may be the best, but not worth the money - even if you
go the catalog route (Summit, etc.) for maybe $500 or so.. I am not a Flowmaster
fan, but I know a number of folks like them.

I'd go with the MAC system. My son has the 2 1/2" MAC setup, and I think it was
somewhere in the $200s - mail order, of course, from Tommy Vaughn or somebody.
You can find dozens of ads in any of the Mustang magazines.

Eric thinks the MAC system is too loud, and he has switched back to his
Flowmasters. On the other hand, Eric has both headers and a very trick dual cat
setup in his car, so your mileage may vary, as they say. The MAC system doesn't
seem to be too loud in my son's car, which has headers, but stock cats. A friend
of his has a Flowmaster 2 1/2" setup that seems to me to be louder than the MAC
system, although car to car variations might affect that result.

I should mention that I am not a fan of LOUD, having gone through both Borla and
Flowmaster setups on my old Vette before switching back to stock. That brings up
another point, though. On the Vette, as on the 5.0 Mustangs, you will *not* get a
very significant power increase (with a stock engine) by switching mufflers.
Maybe 5-7 HP, and less than a tenth in the quarter mile. In my case, I didn't
think the extra noise was worth the very small performance gain.

Bruce

    Thanks for reminding me that you don't get a big increase in power
    on the 'stang/cat-back system...  I should say that I consider it
    a building block for the motor.  Ergo, a Cat back may not shine now
    (but I'll get the TONE), but as I continue to add little tricks in 
    the future, they will start to pay off...
    
    Other things I'm thinking about (future) at Mass Air, heads, roller
    rockers, intake stuff, etc...
    
    I may rip the motor apart this winter and replace all the stuff from
    the heads up, and see what I get.  :-)
    
    Ya know, it was a lot more affordable to modify a bike... Especially
    the two-strokes that I loved so much... :-)
    jc
                                           

>    Thanks for reminding me that you don't get a big increase in power
>    on the 'stang/cat-back system...  I should say that I consider it
>    a building block for the motor.  Ergo, a Cat back may not shine now
>    (but I'll get the TONE), but as I continue to add little tricks in 
>    the future, they will start to pay off...
    
Don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wait until you've done some serious engine mods before going with an
aftermarket exhaust. I have the 2 1/2" MAC system(with dynomax mufflers)
and even with a good deal of engine mods I gained no measurable improvement at 
the track. From idle to 1600 RPM's and from 2000 on up it sounds nice, but
from 1600 to a little over 2000 RPM's its really LOUD. Where does your car
spend most of it's time? I bet it's between 1600 and 2000. The damb thing has
changed my driving style just to avoid that RPM range. With 3.55 gears I now
cruse at 70 instead of 65 on the highway to keep above 2000 RPM's. I lug
around town at 1200 RPM in 5th. All this plus keeping the tunes louder just to
avoid that noise! I think Eric went back to the flowmasters for this exact
reason. I guess overall the flowmasters are louder, but not as bad as the
dynomax mufflers within that key RPM range.

/mike

    More good feedback...  I'd like to have the sound without 
    'the loud'... with my upgraded, CD based 800wt stereo, I 
    have enough noize in the car.
    
    Well gang, I did it.  My first trip ever to Pueblo Motorsport
    Parks 1/4 mile.  I did six runs total, and I'm a little disappointed
    with myself and my car - you tell me if I should be...
    
    I had a best of 16.40 @86mph, and a best R/T of .700.  I seemed
    consistant enough, as my worst of the night was 16.58  @84mph...
    
    Shouldn't a stock stang do better?  All the other stangs there were
    blowing my doors off - sort've embarassing...  
    
    I will say I had a great time overall, and realize now that I need 
    to practice this 1/4 mile stuff...  I'm also gonna get Mark Forbes
    help me go over my motor...
    
    FWIW - It didn't run badly, it just got beat.  Maybe it's the driver?
    
    

    I should also say that maybe the other stang owners were messin' 
    with me...  See, they all had "stock" mustangs and were running 
    mid-14's...  Course, when I'd go over and look at their cars, they
    had headers, pullies, short belts, MSD ignition boxes, rear-gears,
    empty gas tanks, no spare tire... Mass Air, throttle bodies...
    
    I had a full tank (mistake), and ALL my stuff in the car, anna K&N.
    
    :-)
    

    The other folks have been at this deal for longer than you apparently.
    They've got their rides tweaked.  You'll get there too.
    
    Do you have big sticky tires on your car?  How about the air pressure
    in your tires.  You know 100 lbs = .10th of a second in the 1/4 mile.
    
    The real trick, is on the bottom of the slip where it says WIN.
    This is what you want. (During eliminations.  Getting "beat" in time
    trials isn't a major deal.)
    
    If I run 11.3, 11.4, 11.24, 11.5... and you run 16.6 all day long, you
    will kick my a$$ in competition.
            
    MadMike

I think the 86 mph figure is not too far off where a stock Mustang should be,
depending on the altitude, of course. If Pueblo is 5000 feet up, add six to
seven mph to correct to sea level. This is still a little low (I'd be looking
for something around 95 - 96 mph, corrected, or 89+ mph at Pueblo), but in the
ballpark.

A quarter tank of gas will help, as will getting rid of your "stuff". I have no
idea what your stuff weighs, but lighter is better. Maybe 89 + mph is within
reach, particularly as you gain expertise.

Speaking of gaining expertise, that is what you need to do - simply by making a
bunch of runs, while trying different techniques. A reasonable rule of thumb in
quarter mile racing with street tires (particularly at these reduced power
levels) is to divide your mph into 1353 in order to get an ET to shoot for.
1353/86 = 15.73. That shows you need to practice your launches, and study the 60
foot times, assuming Pueblo has 60 foot lights.

I'd definitely be looking for 2.2s, or possibly even 2.1s with your car, and
I'll bet at least a nickel that you're well off that pace.

It's been my experience that, with street radials, the hot tip is to ease into
the clutch while feeding gas (just as if you were in traffic on the street but
on steroids) to avoid any and all wheelspin. It feels funny (and slow), but
that's the way to get the quickest timeslips.

Good luck.

Bruce

Hi,
PMI should have 60 and 330 foot times, but Friday they were out to lunch.
They have been having trouble with their system and have been robing parts
from the 60 and 330 gear to make the 1/4 mile stuff work properly. This is
a VERY lame operation down there.... Most of the stock to slightly modified
mustangs I've seen at PMI were in the 15.0 to 15.8 range, so Bruce's numbers
are right on... Like he says ,,,practice practice practice....

				Brian...

    Yes, I'm SURE my lauches need a LOT of work...  I was either bogging, 
    or spinning tires until you couldn't see the back of my car.  :-)
    FWIW - I practiced a little before I got down there - and in comparison
    to the street lights, I might as well been on ICE at PMI.  All the snot
    on the line was pretty click...
    
    I don't have the time slips here, but I'll check 'em out - there WERE 
    a couple that had 60 foot times.
    
    Thanks again guys, you're making me feel better.  :-)
    jc
    
      

>     FWIW - I practiced a little before I got down there - and in comparison
>     to the street lights, I might as well been on ICE at PMI.

Only if you break the tires loose. The starting line at the strip will give you
*better* traction than on the street, measured in terms of how much forward
thrust you can get before lighting 'em up. However, *once you break loose*, the
combination of your street rubber and the deposited rubber/traction goop at the
starting line *will*, in fact, feel as if you're driving on ice.

Don't break 'em loose.

Don't bog.

Feather the clutch.

This sounds, and is, a little tricky. As I said, you've got to start the way you
do in everyday traffic, but put it on steroids. That is, it should take you
roughly a second and a half until your right foot is all the way down, and the
clutch is completely engaged only at that moment.

Remember: A second and a half. Once you are successful in this, a light bulb
will glow over your head, bright enough to match your grin, and you'll be saying
to yourself, "So *that's* how it's done!" :-)

Bruce

PS - With street tires, avoid the water as if you were the wicked witch. If you
get your tires wet, water from between the treads will settle on the starting
line, even after you've done a burnout, and you'll slip slide away. Just pop the
clutch (with dry tires) before the starting line for a half second or so, to
clean any dirt, pebbles, etc. off the tread.

    re: Note 58.196 by SANTEE::AUGENSTEIN
    > Listen up...........
    
    Most definitly.  
    
    You may look like a moron driving around the water
    box, but those other guys who like to do smokeshows don't buy your
    tires.  The object is to KICK BUTT :^) NOT look like a moron (to
    people who know what's going on).
    
    You heat up slicks to make them STICKY.  You heat up street tires to
    look cool (like the "big guys").
    
    Like I said... head games.  If I line up with you and play with your
    head (because I know I can't run my number), I may beat you.  If you
    take the "screw you" attitude, ignore me, pay attention to the tree
    and run your number, I'm goin' home.
    
    MadMike

    Well, FWIW, I did drive around the water box (good advice), except for
    once simply cuz I wanted a pal to take a picture of the car with smoke
    billowing outta the wheel wells.  My mentality is; Now I've got the pic, 
    and I don't need to do it again.  :-)
    
    Great advice - I guess I just need to practice all this...
    
    ...and while I'm at it, I'll put synthetic lubes in all right places,
    and diddle my timing some more. :-)

I can't complain really. My current short block is a generic (Recon engine co.)
remanufactured  late model (>1986) 302 Ford.  Nothing special - and I mean that
in strictest sense.  I can't recall for sure, but I think I paid $900 for it, 
without having to give them my original shortblock for a core.

At the time of purchase I was peaved that the shortblock lacked a double-roller
timing chain and forged pistons.  My stock block had them and I figured the
replacement should also.  Tinkle in the wind - but I took the engine anyway.

Swapped in a new double roller timing chain, slid in a new cam, and called
it a race-ready 7000 (or bust) rpm street/strip engine.  I figured it would 
last about 6 months.  In the meantime, I've rebuilt my stock shortblock - it 
looks to be in prefect shape with only bearing and pistom ring replacement.

To date, I've exceeded the stock 5800 rpm redline (by > 500 rpms) 12,423 times -
the vanilla shortblock just keeps coming back for more.  I've never had
to add oil between 3500 mile changes.  Big change for me -  the stock 302 with
the forged (read flap in the bore) pistons drank at least a quart every 1500.
And after  the proper 6 month thrashing period, its making good power - pushing
my 3300 lb daily driver down the quarter mile in under 13 seconds on a routine
basis.

I think its gonna self destruct.  The last 3 oil changes have provided 
increasing samples of metal on the magnetic drain plug.  Not bite size chunks, 
mind you, but slivers large enough to have names. :-)  Its also been sounding
unhappy at two distinct rpm zones on its familiar journey to the 6400 engine 
kill imposed by the ford engine computer (EEC-IV).  Lately, I've been lead to
spontaneous utterances like "she's breaking up - she's breaking up".

My stock harmonic balancer has seen alot.  Its slightly askew on the hub, and
seems to be pushing the rubber layer from its home.  I ordered a Fluidampr - but
its probably too late.

I guess its time to build the 11 second emmisions legal daily driver! :-)
Forged pistons, 8-10 PSI boost, 8.5:1 compression ratio, aluminum heads (maybe),
and my current cam with a powerband from 4000 to 6000 rpm.  That should do it.

Eric

    Put a 460 in it.  Fake exhaust.  Good way to make extra pocket money
    on the weekends.  :^)

Or how about a stroked 351(like 377CI or more) with aluminum heads, full
lenght headers, and a big CAM.....who would know it's not just another 302?

/mike

Well, now you have the three major choices we talked about...........

I personally vote for the 351 (with stock displacement) option, with the GT40
lower, and maybe your current cam if it and roller rockers will work in that
motor. If not, the factory cam is probably OK.

This will work for the '95 and '96 seasons, whereupon you yank the thing from
the smoldering, twisted GT that will be begging for some junkyard rest at that
time :-), and throw the thing into a good used LX - plus blower, of course.

Bruce

    How about that blown 351 in the "Home Improvement guys'" car??
    
    Slobber.
    

    Maybe the 351 is the way to go.  I offer the following story:
    
    The guy who built one of my old motors told me about a kid who had him
    build a bad boy 460.  He tossed it into a Mustang II.  This was all
    financed with the kids parents spare change.  The kid came to pick up
    his machine.  Paid the balance and as the guy was waving bye-bye to
    the kid, the kid hammered it, tore ass out of the parking lot and did
    2 360's and slammed into the guard rail.  It twisted up the kids car
    so bad they totalled it.
    
    Ha Ha..
    
    When my pop dropped me and my future wife off to pick up my Z I was
    "nervous" (the friggin hood & dashboard were vibrating for one thing).
    After I dropped off my girl, I continued to rumble around like an
    old lady until the car started spitting and popping.  So I put my foot
    into it.
    
    THAT BABY PULLED UP TO 8 GRAND.... YEEE-HAAAA.  (Pardon me, I'm
    sounding like John Force now).

      I am in the market for a 5.0 Mustang to do some racing
    with next spring.  Somewhere in here I remember seeing a
    breakdown of what are the better years to buy as far as
    performance is concerned, but I cannot find it.
    
    Since the '83-86's are pretty cheap, what kind of performance
    can be expected from them?
    
    Should I just forget those years and go with an '87+?
     
    I am planning on the car being a daily driver that I will take
    to the track once a month.
    
    Thanks for any info you can lend,
    
    Rich

Buy a couple copies of Mustang Monthly and see for what year cars the hop-up
parts are sold.  The power-chip stuff will apply to newer cars, for instance.

Note that the LX 5.0 is lighter (300 lbs, supposedly) than a GT, so if you 
want to skip the 'ticket me' looks and go for ultimate performance, consider 
this.


steve

The 5.0 HO fuel injected motors went into production in essentially its best
trim in 87 and on.(86 had FI but was rated much less in HP).  I think it was in 
89 that the mass air flow meters were phased in...these allow the EEC-IV to handle
mods better than the speed density units.  I think the hardest part will be to 
find one that hasn't been beat(i.e.  there are tons of mustangs for sale from 
Brockton if you check the want ads...stay away...there are many waste-o types 
street racing there:-):-)..what was someone in here said...the typical
Brockton 5.0L driver has a backwards baseball cap, an earing and a gun:-) 

Rich

      I have been doing a bit of research lately into which year
    is right for what I want to do and how much I want to spend.  
    It looks like an '85 is hard to beat for the money as it has 210 HP,
    roller cam, good flowing heads and no computer management of the fuel 
    system.
    
    The 82-84's seem to be way too low on HP, and while the '87 and up
    have higher HP, they are complex (to me) and more expensive.
    
    Anybody out there have any negatives to add regarding the '85's?
    
    Rich

    85' was the last year for non injected Mustangs. It had the good heads,
    pistons, cam etc. etc. Because of all these features they are getting
    scarce and expensive. You could always consider an 85' Capri 5.0. They
    don't seem to hold their value as well as the Stang. I am looking for
    a 80's Capri myself. Drivetrain is not important, but body must be
    perfect and not reworked, must be an AIR car, and must have solid roof.
    

      Thanks for the info.  I have looked at a couple within the last
    2 weeks, but they were shot.  The trick does not seem to be finding
    one, but finding one that is not destroyed.
    
    I had not considered the Capri, maybe I'll look into those.
    
    Rich

    Now that the NED season is over, I've taken the opportunity to play
    supernerd, and studied the ol' spreadsheet that serves as a record of
    all my runs with the Thing for '94.
    
    Bottom line: Near as I can tell, the mods I've made this year (K & N,
    cut out filter lid, airfoil, Hypertech chip and 170 degree thermostat) are
    good for a little less than two tenths in the quarter mile. This year,
    the car averaged 13.09 @ 107, with average air densities at just under
    100%. Last October (with the car fully broken in and driving style
    fully honed) it averaged 13.23, with air densities averaging just
    *over* 100%.
    
    12.9s were available any time the air density was at 100% or greater,
    but only if this occurred during daylight hours. I've never gotten
    into the twelves at night.
    
    The single most effective modification was the 170 degree thermostat.
    With the car running in the 170s, I'm figuring at least a tenth,
    compared to the standard 190s. Of course, hanging around in the staging
    lanes gives you a cool engine even with the standard thermostat, but
    the 170 thermostat means it's easier to control all this from run to
    run.
    
    Even with the cooler engine, consecutive runs without cooldown cost
    about a tenth of a second - probably due mostly to increased underhood
    temperatures (no ram air), but also due to the engine control computer
    pulling timing back a bit (10.5:1 compression) with the warmer engine.
    
    As for the rest of the mods, the chip feels as if it's a bit quicker
    than the stocker, but run to run experimentation shows it's less than a
    tenth of a second, due largely to increased wheelspin on the one-two
    shift (rev limiter up from 5850 to 6200), so any significant
    advantages are eaten up at this point.
    
    I got into a discussion with the Callaway folks one Friday night (they
    were doing testing on some of their Camaro mods), and they say that, on
    a Vette at least, the dyno doesn't see any improvement with the K & N
    and airfoil installed. My own testing shows that the filter lid cutout
    doesn't make any difference that I could measure, so, on balance, maybe
    a K & N is the only smart move on these cars, what with its better
    filtering and, presumably, less effect from dirt buildup.
    
    So how does this translate to your LT-1? Well, directly if it's a
    Vette, and fairly straightforwardly if it's a Camabird.
    
    Cooler is better on any LT-1 (more than on many engines), so a
    thermostat or plenty of cooldown between runs is the hot tip. Unlike
    the Vette, however, intake (and exhaust) mods will tend to be
    reasonably beneficial on a Camabird. The Callaway people were adamant
    that there really *is* a 25 HP drop compared to the Vette (something
    I'm a little skeptical of), and it's clear that these cars will benefit
    from both intake and exhaust mods more than the Vette will. Somthing
    from either Callaway (expensive) or C & L (reasonable) is what I'd get
    for an intake fix if I had one of these cars. As for exhaust, headers
    and a cat-back system would be the way to go.
    
    That's all I know for now - and, as always, all suggestions will be
    gratefully received :-). At the moment, I'm considering a ram (and
    cool) air package for the thing, but after that, I'm at a loss.
    
    Bruce  
         

    Bruce, page 42 of the December issue of Car Craft has a quick rundown
    on a new gadget from Hypertech that allows reprogramming the "chipless"
    '94 LT1's. The results seem pretty abysmal. On a '94 TA, the difference
    between stock and using the 'reprogrammer' and a 160� was only .184
    seconds and .83 mph in the quarter. 
    
    It would seem that GM does indeed have the computer algorithms tuned
    extremely well right from the factory. 
    
    Harry
    

    I agree. GM (and Ford, etc.) have gotten pretty close as is. The
    Hypertech guy told me that they were getting 20 HP, 15 of which came
    from the thermostat, and the other five from chip settings. I don't
    necessarily believe 20 HP, but I think the proportions are about right.
    
    Bruce

    "Hello, doc? I won't be needing to set up that session with you after
    all, but thanks for the offer. What? No, it's just that I've gotten a
    couple of sessions with Mr. Bow Tie this week, and now everything's
    just peachy."
    
    I come off the 495 loop onto route 20 east this morning at around 50
    mph in second gear, and hit the floor at the merge, exhausts yammering,
    drifting a bit to the outside, and swallow up a Mustang and pickup as I
    let the Thing take its course into the left lane. We're at 70+, still
    in second (well into that colored area on the tach) when I let off and
    let compression braking slow me as I pass the hotel driveway on my
    left. The exhausts are crackling, and I'm grinning like a fool as we
    slow for the upcoming traffic.
    
    Last night, I hammered it in first gear on route 111, and, wouldn't you
    know it, the old "ASR Active" light flared on the dash, as the GS-Cs
    began howling. The old Plastic Bullet would light 'em up routinely
    under these conditions, with its surplus of low end torque, but I'm not
    used to the Swamp Thing behaving this way. Ain't it grand?
    
    I tell ya', I'd recommend 110 percent air densities to *anyone* :-).
    
    OK, OK. This is socially reprehensible. What's your point? :-)
    
    Bruce

I figure its your duty as a citizen to let off steam. It keeps us from, shall we
say, slipping off the edge.

There's proof too. Postal workers. Constantly getting passed by other vehicles.
Day in, day out. Driving those dog slow tin cans. Its like a time bomb. Tick
Tick Tick. Wham, the postal dude runs out of fruit loops, and decides the kill
his family. 

Sad - I know. You'll never catch me going more then a week with doubling the
limit at least once.

Eric

Well I guess I've been in need of some therapy these days myself. I keep
looking for sand free spots of pavement near stop signs/lights. The ride my
car gives on the street when hammered from 1st or 2ed is pretty wild. It just
refuses to go straight until I let off:-) This is something I don't do very
often, but since the track closed I've noticed the frequency has gone up quite
a bit. Other recent behavior includes down shifting into 2ed on highway
on-ramps so I can merge into traffic at full throttle, down shifting into 3rd
on the highway for passing and other equally childlike behavior.... 

105 more long days before Epping opens for the 95 season...


/Mike

    Hello Everyone,
    
    I've been the owner of two Mustangs (1983 GT, & 1988 LX 5.0). I'm now
    in the process of buying an emerald green 1991 5.0 LX. This will be my
    first automatic Mustang. My previous LX had 3.73 gears with the one of
    many Borg-Warner T5's in front of it! I would like a rear gear
    comparable to the 3.55.1 or 3.73.1 when behind the 4 speed automatic in
    this 5.0(in other words,I should pull about the same or less rpm's on
    the highway as my old Mustang). I heard that I should go with 4.10.1. Does 
    anyone else have a 5.0 with an automatic and a different final gear ratio?
    
                                                            Thanks,
    							    Travis

    If you'd like the same (or lower) rpm out on the highway, then go with
    the same (or lower) final drive. I believe the AOD has a .70 fourth
    gear, which is nearly identical with the .68 fifth gear in the standard
    T5. Therefore, a 3.73 gear would give you roughly 2100 rpm at 60 mph,
    with the T5 coming in just under that with the same gear.
    
    Bruce
    

    WOW! What a quick response! I appreciate the help, I like to do things
    once and right. I'm a little new at the notes files, how did you find
    out I made a recent entry way up in note 58? Is their a short cut? 
    							
    							       Travis  

    Travis, at the "Notes>" prompt, type "open sample". This will open the
    sample conference that gets created the very first time that you run
    Notes. Read and follow the directions in each topic and reply. It only
    take a few minutes and will teach you a lot about how Notes works.
    
    Harry
    

    Well hello everybody I'm Larry My wife and I just brought a 92 LX 5.0
    convt. We are planning on doing a little drag racing and maybe a little
    autocrossing. I read a lot of the notes in this conference so before
    making any changes to the car I'll be going to the strip for some
    baseline runs and to get me acclimated to the process as well. I'll be
    back with times. Probable date 4/7 probable Capitol raceway Bowie MD. I
    believe they have a test & tune on Fridays...
    
    							Larry & Alpha

    Mustangs RULE!
    :-)

    #       <<< Note 58.222 by KDX200::COOPER "Revolution calling!" >>>
    #
    #Mustangs RULE!
    #:-)
    
    Well now, that's all based on your point of view... I would not
    be inclinded to buy it :^)
    
    rich
    

    Wanna put that up against a 1970 440 GTX and see who rules?
    
    
    
    
    					Heh, Heh
    
    
    						/Dave
    

I'll give it a go.

    
        I'd like to go up against one of the new twinke mustangs with my
    brothers rolling toilet 1980 camaro with the 530 cube BBC engine
    under the hood....Now that would be a trip!
    
    -john

    ... or maybe my '67 Camaro!!!
    
    Don

                        <<< Note 58.223 by BSS::BOREN >>>

    #       <<< Note 58.222 by KDX200::COOPER "Revolution calling!" >>>
    #
    #Mustangs RULE!
    #:-)
    
    Well, I was going to hold back some. But thanks to the Mopar and Chevy 
    fans....
    
    
    I've got this little 70 Challenger.....and well I think, nuff' said :^)
    or a 57' Chevy BelAir even.  Actually more than just a few Mustangs on
    video running against the Challenger.... all they saw was tthe Dodge
    License plate on the rear.
    
    One dude had a one of the new 5 kazillion liter Mustangs, headers,
    dominator, and this huge bottle in back... I think I was on the way
    back when he got to the line :^)
    
    as the hardcore Mopar fans say
    
    It's MoPar or NoCar :^)  - can't remember where I stole that little
    saying from...
    
    rich
    
    

    
    
     Mopar....Please excuse me while I laugh....Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 
    :^)
    
      I'll race my Boss 302 against a Poopar anyday ....Well, OK.  I give
    you Mopar guys a chance and head start, tell you what.
    
     I'll race you with my Kid's Mustang Pedal Car....I'll still beat you
    in a � mile !!!
    
      Mustangs Rule....or any FORD for years 1955-1973
    
    /Bob (alias-Sax)
    

    
    
    hi bob,
    
   re:  >> Mopar....Please excuse me while I laugh....Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 
    
    what ever it is your taking; I'd like some - or cut your dosage in �.
    I got tired of spanking the Mustangs.... no Challenge :-) to bad there
    is so much distance physically even though the e-distance is short
    maybe exchanging time slips perhaps as an alternate?
    :^)
    

The following article was posted on Compuserve and subsequently posted in 
the F-body newsgroup. I though it would be of interest to the notesfile. 
This guy really wnet to the extreme on modifying his Impala SS.

Chris


This is a file which explains in more detail several modifications I have
made to my Impala SS. One of my "specialties" would be the addition of
factory items and options that were not spefically available on a
particular vehicle, but which were available on other models of the same
vehicle, or other similar vehicles. For example, the primary changes I
have made to the SS have been to add all of the Police hardware and
options that were not already a part of the SS package, as well as several
factory Export options. Most of these additions really have nothing to do
with engine performance, but instead add to the appearance, functionality,
uniqueness, and capabilities of the vehicle in total.

Last October in stock form my SS ran a 15.1 @ 90 MPH at the Union Grove
dragstrip in Wisconsin. Since then I have installed a full 2.5" stainless
dual exhaust (with factory export pipes), and I may be able to hit the
high 14s. There was another SS at the strip the night I was there who ran
14.9 @ 92 MPH with the exhaust completely disconnected after the cats, but
otherwise in stock trim.

Besides the exhaust, most of my mods have to do with adding missing
factory options (mainly Police) or factory upgraded components that were
not even available on the SS. Some of these are detailed as follows:

 -Corvette Engine Dress
 -1LE F-car Intake Elbow

I have changed the engine dress to that of a Corvette, by installing the
Corvette fuel injector covers and plastic valve covers. This totally
changes the appearance of the engine and makes it look like a REAL LT1.
For a unique touch, I installed red Chevrolet "SS" emblems on the fuel
injector covers. These emblems are factory original on the doors of '95
Chevy S-10 "SS" model pickups.

Besides changing the look of the engine to a factory Corvette LT1
appearance, I also removed the unsightly and restrictive triangular air
resonator that sits on top of the engine! I installed a '95 F-car 1LE air
intake elbow, which is both wider than the B-car elbow for better air
flow, plus it does not have the large hole in the top for the resonator.

One non-factory mod I made was to install an 8" cone type K&N air filter
in place of the stock filter. It actually fits perfectly on the MAF, and
sits right in the stock air filter base. It fits so nice it almost looks
factory!

 -Factory Thermostatic Fan Control Switch

Although the SS uses a standard 180 degree thermostat, the PCM program
turns on the electric engine cooling fans (V03 HD cooling package) at 226
degrees (150-watt low speed fan) and 239 degrees (240-watt high speed
fan). This is way too hot, and allows the engine to heat up excessively in
slow moving traffic, and then rapidly cool off when the vehicle is moving.
To eliminate this temperature cycling, I installed a factory thermostatic
switch in a pre-existing (plugged) water jacket hole in the LH cylinder
head, which I have wired through a hidden toggle switch (mounted in the
under-hood relay box) to the high and low speed fan relays. This will turn
on either the low or high speed fans (selected by my hidden switch) at 203
degrees, instead of the standard 226 or 239 degrees as controlled by the
PCM. The thermostatic switch is wired in parallel with the standard fan
relay circuit so the PCM can still control the fans as normal. BTW, the
thermostatic switch I used is the same one installed in the intake
manifold as the high speed fan switch in the GN and TTA. I can also
disable this function completely by the hidden switch.

Some of the additional factory RPO (Regular Production Option) and SEO
(Special Equipment Option = Police or Export) features I have installed on
my SS are:

 -1T1   Hose, Radiator and Heater, Silicone Rubber (SEO)

These are green silicone radiator and heater hoses that directly replace
the factory hoses. They replace all of the black rubber hoses between the
radiator, engine, heater core, overflow tank, and thermostat housing.
These hoses are made from 100% pure silicone rubber and will last the
entire life of the vehicle, they never need to be replaced. They are
installed with 100% stainless steel (including the screw) worm gear clamps
(as used in the factory Police package) instead of the standard squeeze
clamps for additional durability and reliability.

 -6H6   External Trunk Opener, RH side of Radio (SEO)

This is a dual switch panel that replaces the cigarette lighter outlet to
the right of the radio in the dash. The switches are backlit and match the
shape and size of the dual switch panel to the left of the radio. The top
switch is an on-off switch that is normally wired to cut off the
speedometer and radio display in Police vehicles. This was designed to
eliminate any interior light with the car running for surveillance
purposes. I have this switch wired to enable or disable the signal to the
power antenna relay, thus allowing me to play CDs (or tapes) with the
antenna remaining down. With the switch on, the antenna will go up and
down when the radio is turned on as normal. The second switch is a
momentary contact power trunk release button, which functions in addition
to the one inside the glove box. The cigarette lighter itself is relocated
to a hidden blank area in the dash, which is visible only with the ashtray
pulled out, as per the SEO Police package.

 -7L9   Cooler, Power Steering Fluid (SEO)

This is a tubular metal loop cooler that crosses the front of the vehicle
from side to side directly under and behind the radiator. This is standard
equipment on Caprice police package vehicles and is used to prevent the
power steering fluid from overheating during spirited driving sessions. It
serves as the fluid return line between the power steering gear assembly
and the fluid tank, cooling the fluid before it returns to the tank.

 -7P8   Cooler, High Capacity Engine Oil (SEO)

This is a heavy duty external oil-to-air aluminum plate cooler, similar to
the external oil-to-air trans cooler, which is mounted on the LH side of
the vehicle directly in front of the radiator. This cooler is standard on
all Caprice police package vehicles, and replaces the oil-to-water cooler
inside the LH radiator tank on civillian LT1 Caprices. It includes all
aluminum pre-bent lines from the oil filter adapter and replaces the
lighter duty oil-to-water cooler located in the LH radiator tank which is
standard on the SS.

 -8X3   Shock Absorbers, Front and Rear, HD Bilstein Gas-preloaded (SEO)

These are very stiff, large diameter, high pressure Bilstein gas shocks
that are a special order option available only on Caprice police package
vehicles. They are significantly thicker, stiffer and better damped than
the de Carbon shocks included in the Impala SS package. In addition to
these extra HD shocks, I have also installed the higher rate rear springs
from the Police package. These springs also lift the rear of the car about
1/2", giving it a slightly raked appearance instead of the somewhat saggy
appearance of the softer stock springs.

 -B48   Mat, Heavy Duty Rubber Trunk (SEO)

This is a heavy rubber mat factory cut to fit the trunk floor, and is an
option on Caprice police package vehicles. I have installed it to protect
the carpet and for further sound isolation. I also installed 1" thick foam
padding behind the carpet on either side of the trunk, which eliminates
"out-dings" from objects careening around in the trunk during high G-force
maneuvers <g>.

 -DD7   Mirror, Inside Rearview, Electrochromic w/Digital Compass

This is a direct replacement factory rear view mirror that includes a
digital electronic green LED compass display in the upper right hand
corner. It is a self contained unit, with a fluxgate sensor mounted inside
the base of the mirror where it attaches to the windshield. This mirror
also includes a built-in electrochromic feature, which causes the mirror
to automatically darken at night when headlights shine brightly from
behind. Both the electrochromic and compass features can be turned on and
off via a switch on the bottom of the mirror. This mirror is the same unit
which is used on the '95 Eldorado TC, and is also available from the GM
accessories catalog.

 -N65   Wheel and Tire, Space-Saver Spare

This is a space saver wheel and tire package, including a shorter carpeted
cover, that is normally standard on the Caprice. I installed this in place
of the semi-full size spare included standard on the Impala that wastes
additional trunk space, and is not truely full size anyway.

 -NM8   Exhaust System, Export Leaded Fuel

These are factory stainless steel pipes that directly replace the
catalytic converters on vehicles built for shipment overseas. They do not
include stainless steel bungs for the oxygen sensors, which I obtained
separately and welded on with stainless steel welding rod in the same
locations as on the standard US pipes. Another alternative would be to
remove the exhaust manifolds and tap the already present O2 sensor bosses
for the sensors. The F-cars use the same manifolds as the SS (with minor
heat shield differences) that already have these holes tapped. Note that
these pipes are for export and off-road use only.

 -T84   Headlamps, Export, RH Rule of Road

These are export headlamp capsules that directly replace the standard US
lamps. They are made of glass instead of plastic like the US versions, and
have a much better light pattern including a very sharp cutoff. They also
include additional "positioning" bulbs which are designed to come on with
the parking lights for use in certain European cities that do not allow
headlights to be used even at night. The positioning bulbs are mounted in
the parabolic reflectors such that they make the reflector look as if it
is lit, even though the main headlamps are off. I replaced the standard
white bulb with a blue one, which makes the reflector glow blue, and even
adds a "blue dot" effect while the main lamps are on. The T84 lamps also
feature H4 halogen bulbs, which I have replaced with 80/100 watt versions
for increased brightness. The very sharp light cutoff insures that no
light is directed into oncoming vehicles, so nobody is blinded. One
interesting feature of the T84 lamps is that the headlamps are moved
inboard towards the grille within the glass capsule, and the turn signals
are outboard, which is exactly opposite from the US spec. lamps. This
gives the car a totally unique front end appearance, and the clear glass
lenses add to the effect.

 -UA1   Battery, High Capacity 770 CCA (SEO)

This is a heavy duty Delco battery that is included as standard with the
Caprice police package. It is physically larger than the battery that is
included with the normal Caprice or Impala SS, and also includes a foam
surrounding insulator. It fits perfectly in the large battery tray that is
standard in the SS.

 -UN0   ETR CD player with Speed-Compensated Volume (from '95 models)

This is the new CD player available on the '95 model Impalas. It includes
a Speed-Compensated Volume (SCV) feature that increases or decreases
volume with speed. The SCV feature is controlled by the VSS (Vehicle Speed
Sensor) signal that is available via a jumper wire from a connector
directly under the radio.

 -Police Package Aerodynamic Wiper Blades (SEO)

Police package Caprices get a unique LH wiper blade, which includes a
special airfoil that keeps the blade on the windshield at high vehicle
speeds. I have installed these unique blades on both the LH and RH arms in
my Impala. They are black in color and simply snap on to the stock wiper
arms.

 -Gas "bib" Factory Installed on White Caprice Vehicles

White Caprice vehicles get a special rubber "bib" that is installed behind
the license plate bracket. This bib prevents fuel from dripping on the
rear bumper during refueling, and is installed on white vehicles because
gasoline can cause the paint to yellow. I feel that this is a worthy
feature no matter what the color, so I have added it to my Impala.

 -Factory appearing digital Tach and Temp gauges (Cyberdyne)
 -Installed directly into the stock instrument cluster bezel

This is a non-factory modification, but it looks factory! Cyberdyne gauges
are digital, featuring red LED displays. They have no logo of any kind,
which contributes to the "factory" look, and are completely dark when the
vehicle is off. These are 2-1/16" round gauges with black bezels and I
have installed directly into the black dashboard instrument cluster bezel
on either side of the steering column. This black plastic surrounding
bezel is only a $15 part from GM, so I ordered a new one to install the
gauges in, and kept the original. They fit like they were meant to be
there, and do not interfere with anything behind them in the dash. I have
the two digit (reads hundreds of RPM) tach mounted in the left side, and
the three digit temperature gauge (accurate to 1 degree), mounted in the
right. The wires for these gauges were inserted inside of factory ribbed
conduit, and passed through a pre-existing hole in the firewall. The
temperature sender is mounted on a brass "T" fitting along with the
factory temperature gauge sender in the RH side of the block. The
tachometer takes its signal from the coil pack on the front of the LH
cylinder head and the wire is passed through the factory wire loom conduit
and cannot be seen.

Another gauge modification I have made is to install the Police oil
pressure gauge sending unit. The stock SS oil pressure gauge is completely
bogus, since it actually does not use a sending unit but a switch instead.
The oil pressure switch is mounted on the back of the engine behind the
intake manifold, and is calibrated to close at 4 psi. When the switch
closes, it grounds the stock oil pressure gauge through a 68-ohm resistor,
which causes the gauge to read 3/4 scale at all times. Factory SEO
(Police) cars get a real sending unit calibrated to show a resistance
between 0 to 88 ohms depending on actual oil pressure. I ran a jumper wire
to bypass the 68-ohm resistor and installed the factory sending unit in
place of the switch. The wiring harness plug for these is the same, so no
wiring changes were required under the hood. My oil pressure gauge now
gives actual (true) readings, instead of a constant (bogus) 3/4 scale
reading.

 -Factory 2-switch panel in LH dashboard hole (Caprice Station Wagon)
    -1st switch operates hidden FM radio RF pre-amplifier
    -2nd switch operates custom Pass-Key II security enhancement

This is a backlit dual switch panel that is used on Caprice station
wagons. It is factory installed in place of the cavity (coin holder?) in
the RH side of the non-wagon Caprice or Impala dashboard. The top switch
is an on-off rocker switch labelled "R. Wipe Wash" that is normally used
to turn on the rear window wiper and washer. I have wired this switch to a
hidden FM radio RF pre-amplifier. This preamp dramatically improves the
signal to noise ratio and stereo separation of FM signals, not to mention
making weak stations listenable. The unit is hidden inside the dash behind
the radio. The second switch is a momentary contact rocker switch labelled
"Rear Window Release" which is used to pop the rear window in wagons. I
have this switch wired into the Pass-Key II security system. This
momentary switch must be depressed simultaneously when turning the
ignition key to start the car. If not, the starter enable signal will not
be sent from the Pass-Key II controller to the PCM, thus disabling the
starter motor and ignition circuits. The purpose and function of this
factory stock appearing switch would never be guessed by somebody trying
to steal the vehicle, thus offering an additional measure of security over
the Pass-Key II system alone. additional security relay will not recieve

Besides adding these factory options, I have also made many other subtle
performance, handling and appearance modifications to my vehicle. Some of
them are as follows:

 -Larger front and rear anti-sway bars (Herb Adams)
    -Front bar is 33mm (vs. 30mm stock)
    -Rear bar is 38mm! (vs. 26mm stock)
    -Front bar has solid tierod ends, no end link bushings
    -Both bars coated with ceramic-aluminum compound (Jet-Hot)

Well, these are not so subtle if you could see and experience them
firsthand! The rear bar is as large as some vehicle exhaust pipes, and the
handling with these bars installed is absolutely unbelieveable. The front
bar is attached to the stock control arm hole via solid tierod ends, and
has absolutely no rubber or even urethane bushings, so its effect is
immediate. The tierods have grease fittings, which allows them to be lubed
along with the steerign linkage so there is no noise or wear. The front
bars are attached to the vehicle frame via 36mm factory rubber bushings
with fiberglass linings as used on '85-'92 F-cars. These bushings are very
stiff and do not squeak, unlike aftermarket urethane ones. The rear bar
attaches to the lower control arms using longer grade 8 stainless steel
bolts in the stock control arm brackets. I have both of these bars coated
with a cast-iron color Jet-Hot coating, which gives them a permanent, non
corrosive factory appearance.

These monster anti-swaybars, combined with the killer 8X3 Bilstein shocks
and Police springs, make this car feel about as much improved from the
stock SS in handling as the SS is improved from a base Caprice!

 -Custom dual exhaust
    -2.5" diameter tubing
    -304 grade stainless steel (stock is 409 stainless)
    -Walker Ultra-flo stainless steel mufflers (straight through design)
    -No resonators
    -All stainless steel clamps and attaching hardware
    -Fits in stock hangars and has stock tailpipe exit configuration

The stock exhaust is extremely restrictive (and heavy!) due to the use of
small 2" piping at the rear, and the inclusion of both mufflers and
resonators. This mod is worth nearly 20 HP alone, and the sound is
absolutely awesome, better than a stock 'vette! Another exhaust
alternative would be the Borla system, but the Borla exhaust uses smaller
diameter tubing in the rear section, and includes resonators as well. This
system will outflow the Borla system, but is also somewhat louder,
especially when combined with the NM8 Export exhaust pipes (for off-road
use only).

I have been studying the B-car (and F-car) lines for several years now,
and have experience with many of the special factory Police and Export
parts available for these cars. I also have an '88 Caprice 9C1 (Police
package) vehicle as a daily driver and winter beater. If you ever have any
questions on the new B-cars, I can probably help!

Scott Mueller
Mueller Technical Research
21718 Mayfield Lane
Barrington, IL  60010-9733
(708)726-0709
(708)726-0710 FAX


    

    Between the actual performace changes he made and the weight he added
    it will be a close call on his getting into the 14's.
    
    /tb/
    

    ...........how fast do you want to go? :-)
    
    While experimenting with a variety of launch techniques on the Swamp
    Thing, I've done some rather severe clutch slipping off the line
    (particularly last Spring), resulting in some pungent toasted clutch
    aromas on more than one occasion. In November down at Atco, there was
    some of that wonderful aroma after every pass, due to the need for a
    couple of burnouts before each staging because the track folks made you
    drive through the water on your way to the line :-(, followed by clutch
    slipping (more than I'd actually like but hard to control) on the launch.
    
    I could feel a slight difference in clutch action all year, but there
    was a noticeable difference at Atco and afterword. Nobody else driving
    the car could feel anything, but I could feel the telltale signs
    (slightly less crisp on disengagement, and more slip-slip-then-grab on a
    hard launch) that told me I had significant clutch wear. Since I am going
    for that last hundredth or two when powershifting, the non-crisp
    disengagement sometimes resulted in a missed gear, and if there's
    anything I *don't* want to do, it's damage my ZF made-of-unobtanium
    gearbox.
    
    Thus, I went to Chevy and told them to replace the clutch, which they
    said was going to cost around $750. Since I no longer have any
    inclination to replace a Corvette clutch myself, I said go ahead.
    
    Midway in the job, the Chevy folks called, and told me they had to
    replace the flywheel. Seems as if the manual says, in capital letters:
    
    "DO NOT RESURFACE THE FLYWHEEL. IF THERE IS ANY DISCOLORATION OR
    MARKING OF THE FLYWHEEL ENGAGEMENT SURFACE, REPLACE IT." Or somesuch.
    
    Now, this is a "dual mass" flywheel, according to Chevrolet, which they
    went to because of a gear rattle problem at idle with the massive (145
    pounds) ZF box. "Dual mass" is marketing talk for "twice as heavy" (the
    damned thing weighs 35 pounds), but it's also *two* flywheels, fastened
    together at the hub with a connection that allows around ten degrees of
    rotation between the two, with increasing resistance as you turn one in
    relation to the other, until at around 10 degrees they're essentially
    locked up. It's pretty neat, actually, but it cost Colonial Chevrolet
    $600 from Chevy, which is what they charged me, instead of the $850
    list price. Gulp.
    
    All in all, although I'm a believer in the phrase "If you want to play
    you've got to pay", I'm certainly glad I've worked out a more effective
    launch technique since last Spring :-).
    
    The experience also makes me regard all those Mustang pilots and their
    dirt-cheap parts with a certain amount of longing :-), and it's also now
    clear why this car feels like such a slug in first gear compared to the
    Plastic Bullet, with its 16 pound wheel.
    
    I've got the old flywheel stuck up on a wall of my garage, with a sign
    that says: "The price of speed." :-)
    
    Bruce
    
    PS - If you've got an LT1 Camabird and are getting a little worried, I
    believe they use a more or less standard flywheel with the Borg Warner
    T56.

    I keep a melted set of pistons as ashtrays, and a cam with piston
    rings welded onto it as "the price of speed".
    
    Of course, I also have a $4500 table (454 model) in my garage that's
    all covered up which is a constant reminder of "what it costs".
    
    Sounds like it's rather expensive to beat on these new fangled cars
    with their wiz-bang special, must use only this part stuff.  Hell,
    if I blow up my transmission I can call summit and have em send me
    a TCI TH400 for ~$600.  $1300 for a clutch job?  Yeow...  

    I think that most any new-fangled car may cost more to repair, simply
    because there's more stuff in there, what with electronics and
    such.........
    
    However, it has *always* been true that if a part was "Vette only", it
    was at least double the price, and maybe more. In contrast, late model
    Mustang (and generic Chevy) stuff is dirt cheap.
    
    Bruce

    Well I'm Back. All stock Mustang LX 5.0 conv. best et that night
    14.7666 @92.2021 with a (yawn....) 1.1887 rt.. just call me sleepy ok :)
    I had another run 14.7876 @93.0382 with a (yawn....) 1.2403. Yea yeah I
    thought you were supposed to go when the last yellow light went OFF not
    came ON. Anyway I've added a conical air filter just like my bike has.
    I'm really eyeing one of those *competition pipes* to loosen-up the
    breathing. Does anybody know if they heve fittings for O2 sensors? I
    know they are for off-road use only but hey one can ask. 
    Help me!!! I am now hopelessly hooked..looking for that perfect run and
    dreaming about speeds in excess of 100 in the 1/4 mi.  I'm having a
    4-point roll bar and sub-frame connectors installed this week..Soon
    I'll do the exhaust, then the intakes and maybe heads. All it takes is
    money....sigh
    
    							Rikuo

    Oh yes I forgot. I went back the next week with my T-bird SC just to
    see what it would do and to try to cut a better light. The bird did a
    best of 15.4421 @88.8783 with a rt of .6129. I played around with gear
    selection going through the traps the above run was in 4th. I did a run
    with  a 15.4588 @91.2392 when I went through in third. I had a pretty
    hard time getting that big car off the line. It would either "shake" or
    bog and I couldn't heat the tires because of the same shake. It has
    liquid-filled motor mounts and they are a little old (6 yrs and 111,000
    mi) after repairs/update I'll report back. I'm looking for some solid
    mounts. By the way, in hte Washington D.C. area we have a local track
    called Capitol raceway located in Crofton MD. For $10.00 you can run
    all night on Fridays. Expect wait-times between runs to be about 40-45
    mins. I'll be there this Friday 5/12 maybe running the LX..Gotta plead
    with the wife.
    
    
    
    							Rikuo

    Rikuo,
    
    You may want to check out "drag_racing" for some starting line
    technique tips.  I hold the car with the brake, keep the rpms up a
    little and take my left foot off the brake when the last yellow
    flashes.
    
    Of course, when I get some of that money your looking for as well,
    I'll install a line-lock and rev limiter in my car so I can floor
    the car and launch it by taking my finger off a button.
    
    Regards,
    MadMike 

    Rikuo,
    
	If your headers don't have an O2 sensor fitting option, you can
	take the sensor to a place that sells specialty nuts and bolts.
	They should be able to find a nut that will fit it.  My AC sensor
	took a M18-1.5p nut.  I had to grind it down .250 to get the
	sensor into the exhaust flow.  I bored a hole a little larger
	than the sensor into the collector and welded the nut in place
	over the hole.  Worked fine.  Good luck.  Oh yea, be sure to put
	anti seize on the sensor threads before you leave it in there
	and run with it.  You will trash the nut trying to get the seized
	sensor out if you ever need to replace or remove it.

    Gordon

    Made it up to NED on Saturday, and got to watch some *very* impressive
    Mustangs. As it turns out, both were '93 (last generation) Cobras. A
    black one went 12.00 @ 123 mph, while the green one went 11.7x @ 127.
    
    The thing is, these cars were on street tires.
    
    Until late last year, when the very same green one blew me away with a
    12.33 @ 114+, I would've bet some reasonable money that a Mustang
    couldn't get well into the twelves with street tires. Now, I'm not going
    to bet any money on any Mustang street-tired timeslip.
    
    The black car has a Saleen intake, Edelbrock heads, headers and a
    Vortech set up for impressive boost (owner said he didn't know how
    much), along with Goodyear VR45 tires with full tread. The green car
    now has a B-trim Vortech, also making impressive boost.
    
    In my opinion, these are streetable cars (may or may not be smog legal)
    that are not really one-trick ponies, which is what my feeling has been
    about a lot of these Mustangs. My hat is off to the owners/drivers!
    
    Smitty was up there with his '85 Camaro for his first passes this year.
    Over the winter, he put a set of 6" rods in the small block, with a
    "high compression" piston set. Mechanical compression is up from 7.5:1
    to 8.5:1, which is a considerable increase, in my opinion. A couple of
    checkout passes with 10 psi blowoff valve activated netted an 11.67 @ 116
    (soft launch) and 11.50 @ 116 (hard launch) with a 1.57 short time.
    
    With blowoff valve screwed down (meaning 18+ psi) and a soft launch,
    the car went 10.95 @ 127.85(!), with a *1.81* short time! Smitty said he
    never felt the one-two shift because the DOT legal slicks just smoked
    all the way through first and part of second. On the next pass, he did
    a very smoky burnout in preparation for a hard launch. At the line,
    when he gassed it a bit on the first yellow (to get some revs and
    therefore boost against the 2600 rpm convertor), the car just pushed
    across the line, fouling and starting his clocks. Smitty waited until
    an approximate green light time (Mistake: He should have gone right
    after fouling) before actually launching. The car still smoked the
    tires on its way to an 11.25, but he was at least three car lengths up
    on the other car, which went a 10.94!
    
    Tell ya what. That Camaro is going to be going 10.4s or better with
    real slicks (10.6x best last year) and through the (quiet) mufflers, and
    he still drives it around all the time. Unbelieveable.
    
    Bruce
    
    PS - Oh, right. The Swamp Thing went 13.05 @ 107.99 at 98% air density,
    into a quartering headwind at 15-30 mph. I'm happy but getting bored.

    >I'm happy but getting bored.
    
    Uh oh! Here it comes boys and girls....
    
    Harry
    

    Mr. O2 sensor,
    	
    	Unless your getting full length headers on your car the sensors are
    located on your stock H-Pipe along with your "cats". Most aftermarket
    H-Pipes come with provisions for the O2 sensors, if you look under your
    car you can see a hose wich runs from your smog pump to your crossover
    pump on your H-Pipe, a lot of manufacturers have added a tube on the
    aftermarket pipes so you can plug this in instead of hack it off!
    	A little advice, pick up a mustang magazine and look up M.A.C.,
    they make some pretty good exhaust parts for mustangs. Shorty headers
    are much better to install(otherwise you will find yourself removing
    part of the stearing column and possibly the engine with full length
    headers). On my second mustang I had install a set of M.A.C. equal
    length headers. I had some promblems with my plug wires resting on the
    odd shaped headers, but the biggest problem was changing plugs. I
    recently purchased another about three months ago which I have added a
    2 1/2" H-Pipe and 2 1/2" Dynomax mufflers with 2 1/2" mandrel bent
    tailpipes. I plan on going with J.B.A. un-equal length headers because
    they flow about the same as the others and are much less of a hastle.
    Don't forget to check out those magazines like SuperFord, 5.0, or
    Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords for your late model mustang. Hope this
    helps a little, sorry It was so long! Trust me I coulda' kept goin!
    
    								Good Luck,
    								Travis
    

    Travis, you are right about the tube on the crossover pipe. I just
    didn't know if the comp. H pipes came equipped with fittings for O2
    Sensors. I was anticipating dojng the work myself and since my welding
    and torching tools are non-existent I need the H pipe to have the
    fittings already there. I've since checked with a guy that does custom
    work in this area (Balt/Wash) and he has given me two prices for the
    same stuff. The stuff (Shortie headers JBA, H-pipe with high flow cats
    and Dynomax rear section all 2 1/2 was originally quoted at $650
    installed..Well yesterday I talked to him and it was more like
    $1100!!!! Needless to say I am doing further investigating, including
    doing it myself. Are air tools and absolute for removing exhaust
    manifolds and old tailpipe?
    After I do the exhaust it'll be back to the strip !!!!!
    
    
    								Rikuo

    Rikou,
    The part that is costing you so much is the H-Pipe with high flow cats.
    The use of an air gun is nice but not necessary. Although a 1/2"
    breaker bar might be useful for some of those bolts. Also a long
    extension, and don't forget that neversieze. I use that stuff on almost
    every bolt I take out except on items like driveshafts etc. If you dont
    have cutting torches a better idea might be a sawsall, I've found these
    make short work of those puney stock pipes. The exhaust should bolt on
    to your stock hangers (ask before you order) take your time on those
    tail pipes, you don' want those to rub on anything, and don't forget
    the car is going to sit different on jackstands as opposed to tires.
    
    some prices you might be interested in:
    MAC Exhaust Parts:
    H-Pipe with cats  469.50
    H-Pipe without cats  159.50
    
    You should also be sure to get some kind of protective coating on those
    headers like nickel/industrial,jet coat,aluminizing etc. Any other
    questions just ask.
    							
    Good Luck,
    Travis
    

    Yeah Travis, I'm picking up a slightly used comp. H pipe from a guy who
    just brought long headers for his 5.0 . I'll keep you posted
    Time for the super tune H pipe and the strip.
    
    							Rikuo

The engine, she is toast.  It took roughly one week after installing the new 
supercharger. 1 cylinder is gone; I'm not sure of the cause yet.  

Not completely unexpected, but I bum nonetheless.  :-(.

Eric_made_a_milkshake_Goehl

    Too much compression?  Was your timing off? Did you melt a piston(s)?
    Bummer just the same.
    MadMike

I have pulled the heads, and the offending cylinder (50PSI
compression-100%leakdown; compared to all others at 155 PSI and <10% leakdown)
looks fine. No holes in the piston, and *no* evidence of a leaking head gasket.

BTW, the way I found it was the car blowing excessive amounts of oil out of the
crankcase vent and dipstick tube after pushing the dipstick out. This resulted
is bright flash of light under my hood at speeds well into 3 digits.  The smell
was really strong of oil and something else. The was my only exciting moment of
the whole project; so far.

The valves look good in the offending cylinder. I'm confused; it must be an
utterly broken ring to leak blowby so badly. 

Won't know any more till I pull the block and remove the piston. That sould
happen over the weekend.

Eric  

Well,

	I haven't put anything in here about my car all year so I figure it's
time. Like Eric, I've added an 11PSI ATI supercharger to my Mustang. Prior
to this the car would run 13.2's at about 102. The supercharger has been
on about 2 months and I'm still debugging it, but haven't broken anything yet!

	Best time so far is 12.57 at 108, the car has gone as fast as 110.5.
After finally screaming at Mike Forte(who sold it to me) and ATI(who made it)
I'm finally getting some halfway decent tech support and hope to improve these
numbers soon. Eric had helped me chase out all the driveability problems I
started with but getting the thing to really get up and go at the track has
been a real pain. I'm hoping to run in the low 12's at 112 or so consistantly
with the current setup once a few more bugs in the system are worked out.
Then it's time to bolt on the 17PSI pulley and go looking for a roll cage :-)

/mike

    Eric, sorry to hear it. On the other hand, you've been betting that
    each application of full throttle would be the last for what, two years
    now? :-)
    
    May we assume that the original short block will be going back into the
    car, now?
    
    WAIT! That *was* the cheapie rebuild that blew, right?
    
    Bruce

You are correct Bruce. The original short-block (with its forged pistons) will
be going back in.  It was the cheapee rebuild that lost a cylinder.  I'll feel
much better after inspecting the piston of the failing cylinder.

Sort of ironic that shortly after I got used to referring to this engine as an
engine (not a POS) that it gave up the fight.

Oh yeah, I threw together an engine with parts I had lying around the garage.
I'm sticking with the GT40 heads, only I've spent about 12 hours
enlarging/polishing the combustion chambers. I figure, using a standard (0.042")
thick head gasket I should end up with a 9:1 compression ratio.  The failing
setup used a 0.022" thick gasket.  For anyone interested a 0.042" installed
gasket boasts a volume of 9.1 cc's when installed.  The 0.022" was about 5 cc's.

BTW, even with only 7 functional cylinders, this beast hauled ass. I mean -- I
was getting downright silly running it threw third and fourth.

Eric

I did indeed have a cracked pistion.  The part of the piston that separates the
top compression ring from the middle compression ring had a section that was no
longer attacked to the piston proper. Other then this 1/3 diameter section that
was broken off,the piston looked otherwise fine.

I knew those POS pistons would cause me grief.  The rebuilt stock engine is in
the car and running. I haven't yet had the courage to put in the blower belt. I
only have about 10 miles on it since installation. I figure I need another 4-7
miles before she's totally broken in :-).  I should be blown by midnight.


Eric

    Hi,
    
    I may be heading up to N.E.D tommorow night and I wanted to make 
    sure that it is a regular test session night. Does anyone know ?
    
    Anyone else heading there ? I'd like to see Eric's car....sounds
    interesting.
    
    Chris

In a straight pull in third gear, during lunch today, the transmision
morphisized into an apparent marble blender. I broke third gear :-(.  The noises
coming through the shifter knob were impressive.

The state of the new engine I put in this week is also in question. It might
have blown a head gasket.  It seems I have been running the car up to peak HP
and leaning out because the stock fuel lines and in-tank pump are too small.  
The subsequent popping and following bog, and a suspicious rise in the coolant
overflow container are telltale signs that a head gasket is giving up the fight.

On the good side, it means I'm making big horsepower; 450-500 HP specifically!

Alas I won't be driving my car for at least another week.  If the engine is
blown I might just buy an economy car and give this pursuit up.  


Eric

    I have nice chevy SB 4 bolt 350 I'm thinking about selling...:-)
    
    /tb/
    

	Here's an update with the good and bad news about my supercharged
Mustang. The car went 12.32 at 111 a week ago Saturday during the Fun Ford
Weekend at NED. This is getting real close to what I was looking for when I
installed the supercharger back in June. If we had not been rained out Sunday
I was looking for a 12.2's. 

	But, just when things are looking up parts start breaking. I was back
at the track Wednesday. Traction was really poor and on the last run the tires
broke loose right at the line and the RPM's when through the roof. With a 5000
RPM launch its really hard to get off the gas fast enough when this happens.
The REV limiter in my MSD, set to 6200, or the factory limiter should have
stopped it and probably did at some point before I got off the gas.  But, it
was not soon enough. After this run the car felt like it had a serious miss,
but no nasty sounding noises. Later on pulling the plugs showed #6 was
not firing. Swapped plugs, went for a short drive and the car still seems to
be missing some, but is still nice and quite. Another short drive, shut it off
and restart and then all I hear is rap-rap-rap......OK, let's look inside....
One rocker from #6 is just sitting in there, the bolt sheared off in the head
and the push rod nicely bent. The second rocker from #6 is askew with the
push rod way to far into the engine. Looks like the lifter for this one is
totally destroyed. 

	I haven't pulled the head off the car yet, but I'm hoping there is
no more serious damage that just isn't visible yet. Hopefully a few push
rods, lifters, and probably 2 valves will be all I need. This does sound like
a good time to get rid of the stock CAM and put something a little more
serious in there and to upgrade the valve train so this doesn't happen
again anytime soon.

/Mike
 

	When the car goes back together it should only take 1 or 2 runs before
they kick me out for not having a roll bar:-)

	The heads were in worse shape than I had hoped and really need a
rebuild. So, to save some $ I went out and picked up a set of aluminum
Edelbrock heads:-) The big plan for next season was aluminum heads and
more boost, but my wife was kind enough to understand my logic on how this
will save me $ in the long run. Her exact words were "if you ever plan on
getting into the 10's you'll need them." Now I have never said anything about
running 10's with this car. You got to love a woman who can read minds and can
somehow deal with me running up the credit card bill again just after it's
paid off. 

	A motorsport E303 and 1.6 roller rockers are the other important
new parts going in. Now all I have to do is find time to put it all together.
Given all the other stuff I have going on right now it will probally be a
couple weeks before its running again. Assuming all goes well I figure
this should put me into the high 11's without too much tweeking. Or this
will just screw up the Procharger setup more that is was to begin with
and I will go through hell again getting it sorted out.....


/Mike

My 9.5:1 iron headed motor just can't cut it under boost. I wasted, at least,
another head gasket.

The TFS Aluminum, 7/16" studded, 1.72:1 rockered, CNC ported, 2.02" valved, flow
monsters are being worked as I type. :-)

If I can't make this combination work I'm giving up drag racing. 

Eric

Hi,

	The Mustang is back together again with the new heads and CAM. It took
all of September to collect up the parts and find time to put everything
together. With about 400 miles on it I headed off to Lebanon Valley Saturday
morning. The weather looked too bad to bother with NED and I really needed to
get a few runs in. I hadn't been to LVD since I was in High School(when I was
living in western MA). In the end we got rained out, but I did get 3 runs
in during the morning. Since I'm always paranoid when I do this much work
myself to the car all runs were made with the supercharger disconnected so
I could acutally hear the engine. Overall things went fine, ie: nothing broke!

	I was disapointed in the performance, 13.3's at just under 102(101.7,
101.8,101.9). This is about what the car ran before the supercharger with
the stock(ported) heads and stock CAM(w/ 1.7 rockers). I was really hoping
the speeds would be up in the 104 range. I have come up with lots of
excuses why it wasn't faster(air quality, traction, I was driving like a
wimp) but no real answers. I know by now that it's never as simple as just
bolt this on and the car get's lots faster. One thing that Eric mentioned
is possibly break-in on the springs? He mentioned that when he first put
the E303 cam and GT40 heads on his car it didn't really pick up much at first.
But, it finally started to really move without any specifc changes. So,
is there horsepower there just waiting to release itself, or am I dreaming????

	In anycase I'll be at NED friday night with the supercharger ready to
go. I was amazed at how uneventful runnning low 13's feels like compared to
the 12's I had been running with the supercharger. 

/Mike

	The Mustang is really moving now! 12.1 at 116! Yes, 116MPH. That's
5MPH over my previous best. So, it looks like the heads and CAM were worth
the $. So why is my ET so bad given the speed? My trac-loc differential is
dead! One wheel burnouts don't make for very good launches.  This probably
explains why I lost traction so badly the night I broke the engine....

	I went up to NED Friday night and Saturday. Friday I got 4 runs
in with the supercharger. They all were pretty bad(intercooler tubes blowing
off, missed shifts, horrid launches, etc..). But I did at least verify that the
differential was dead. Saturday was a much better day. I played around with
shift points and launch techniques. I was just starting to remember how to
slip the clutch and feather the throttle when we got rained out. I'm pretty
sure 11's should be no problem once the rear end is back in shape. 

	So Bruce, still want to hop-up your son's Mustang? This stuff sure
gets expensive fast once you reach a certain point!

/Mike

    Mike, I have zero plans to go as far as you guys are taking it.
    Aluminum GT40 heads and the GT40 intake, along with roller rockers and
    the Vortech at 8 psi will be pretty much it, unless I decide on the
    E303 while I'm at it.
    
    There was a guy up there Friday with this configuration (except 9 psi
    SVO (Powerdyne) blower, and he went 111 plus on his first checkout
    pass. I didn't see any more passes, but 111 would be ballpark for where
    I want to take that Saleen.
    
    Oh, yeah. The M3 went 14.08 and 14.07 Friday night, at around 98 mph,
    so I guess I'm gonna take it up one more time, in an effort to get my
    rightful :-) 13.XX, at 100% air density. It was running around 98%
    that night.
    
    Bruce

Finally. I made it to the dragstrip this past Wednesday. On pump gas, and
requisite conservative timing, I went a best of 11.93 @ 116.12 mph.  Mike
Callander is faster at 116.13 mph; I'm quicker.  No breakage, grannied all
gears. 

It is downright exciting to drive this thing down the strip. Pretty much have to
steer the whole way.  It has potential. 

My engine destruction was due to lack of fuel. I've crossed the line for in-tank
pumps. I added another feed tube in parallel to the in-the-tank jobber.  The
auxiliary line is hooked to a monster external high-pressure pump. Fuel flow is
around 80 Gallons/Hour.  This seems to be barely enough. Right now I'm using the
stock headers (I'm serious). The motor bottlenecks at about 5000 rpms; airflow
never increases after that.  

Aftermarket headers will have to wait until I have a margin of safety with the
fuel delivery.

Eric

At which point I was stopped on the return road and was told to slow it down
since I do not have a roll bar! Finally!!! We agreed if I ran another 11.x I'd
stop for the day. The next run I got too agressive on the launch and ran a
12.11. And then: 

11.902
116.29MPH
1.689 60' time

So, for the moment I'm faster AND quicker than Eric, sorry Eric! I don't
expect this to last long once Eric finishes sorting out his car.

Now I won't feel like an idiot putting a roll bar in this winter, I was
having a problem doing this on a car that should run 11's but couldn't.

/Mike

    Wow! You guys are obviously working it out.
    
    Mike, have you done anything "special" with fuel delivery?
    
    How do your respective setups differ?
    
    I was up there on Friday. With the no-name ("Silver Streak"? (color)
    "Hans"? "Dieter"? (origins) "Buffy"? (yuppie car)) Bimmer, searching
    for the elusive 13 second time slip. Finally, at around 9:00 PM after a
    couple of 14.1s (in 98% air, and with rain delays) and running out of
    time, a pretty good launch (2.035 short) made for an on-the-spot
    decision to powershift. Result? 13.99 @ 98.41. Just as well. The rains
    came yet again and they called it a night - and a year, for me.
    
    OK, OK. It ain't 11s :-).
    
    There were a couple of the new 4.6 Cobras there. One was going 12.9s at
    111 mph, with nitrous and a cat-back exhaust. The other did a 13.4 with
    I don't know what.
    
    Both drivers reported 13.7s at 102+ mph while bone stock, so it appears
    these 305 HP cammers can run with the Camabirds - at least. I know one
    of the drivers, and can verify that he knows what he is doing behind
    the wheel. He said that conditions on Wednesday were poor for traction,
    and he felt that the car was good for another tenth, at minimum.
    
    As far as I'm concerned, that's terrific news. Parity brings more
    effort from both sides.
    
    I may head back down to Atco if the local Buick nuts decide to do it
    one more time, but otherwise, that's it for me 'till Spring :-(.
    
    Bruce
    
    
    
    
    
    Meanwhile, the Vette guys have not been sleeping. Rick Nelson's '94
    auto coupe has been going 13.0s with chip, thermostat and K & N, while
    another auto (a '95) has been running consistent 13.3s with only a
    thermostat change. The owner is not a fully crazed drag racer, but he
    listens hard :-).
    
    Bob Cristiano (ex-Deccie) has been running 13.3s with his '93
    six-speed coupe, with my old chip, thermostat, K & N and airfoil. Bob
    typically launches at a 2.1X pace, so he's got a bottom 13 second car,
    in my opinion.
    
    Another gentleman with a '94 six-speed with chip, etc., and Borla cat
    back system has been running 13.0s and .1s.
    
    On the Camabird front, a '95 Firehawk auto has been running pretty
    consistent 13.4s. Chip, etc., but stock exhaust.
    
    There are a number of Vortech-inspired Camabirds up there, and they are
    typically running mid twelves at up to 113 mph, with sticky recaps or
    slicks. 

Hi Bruce,

	I'm running the fuel system more or less as delivered. My
110liter/hour pump in the tank and ATI's 2ed pump in-line. This delivers about
1/2 the volume of Eric's current setup(yes we measured it). I'm also running
24lb injectors along with ATI's FMU that bumps fuel pressure up to about 80PSI
under boost(although pressure drops in the higher RPM range since the pumps
can't keep up). There really isn't too much different right now between
the 2 cars. Eric has a larger intercooler with 3" tubing vs. my  2 1/4"
tubing and he is now running 36lb injectors. Why his car seems to need so
much fuel and requires such a small plug gap(.25 vs my .38) is beyond me at
this point. I'm really wondering what's going to happen once he get's rid
of the stock headers. His car is either going to scream, or start blowing
up again.

	Great job on the 13.99 in the M3. I knew you'd be powershifting the
thing before too long! If you make the trek to ATCO again this year let me
know, I had a good time last year. I'm actually considering heading down
there this weekend, they are having a Mustang vs GN race and open time
trials on Sunday. If I hadn't hit 11.9's this weekend I'm sure I would be
heading down, now it might just be pushing my luck.


/Mike

	I was wondering what anybody thinks about the "93" TAURUS SHO.  if any
body has any good or bad points about the car I would appreciate it.  Also I
heard that the 96 SHO is going to have a 4.5 litre high output engine made by
yamaha.  I think that the "96" SHO is going to be a little out of control!

I have a '93 SHO and its runs great.  No problems.  It is a 5sp and stock.  I am almost
at 36K miles.  I run synthetic oil all around.  The only quirk is the occasional difficulty
to engage reverse.  

I have not read anything real recent on the new SHO, but I remember it was a 3.4l V8
Yamaha that wasn't too far off the V6s performance.  

-Ken P.

    I have a '94 with 27K miles. Loaded with all the toys and a 5 speed. I
    love it. I would never classify it as a musclecar, but it does have
    good performance for a sports-sedan. I had to agree to sell my '79
    L-82 4 spd Corvette in order to get the SHO. With two little boys at
    home the Corvette wasn't practical anymore. The SHO is fairly quick
    once you get it wound up above 4000 rpm and keep it there. It doesn't
    have the low end torque of a small block V8, it's only 183 cu in (?).  
    I recall one auto magazine saying it was quicker 60-100mph than the
    Mustang GT. I've never been able to find a GT doing 60 to try it. Off
    the line the GT is quicker. 
    
    The '96 is not any quicker than the earlier versions with the V6 due to
    the slush-box only transmission and it's extra weight.It's got to be
    getting pretty cramped under the hood with a V8 in there.
    
    ~jeff

Thought I'd put in a brief update on my '91 Mustang. After letting
the car sit all winter I had a roll bar installed by Dan Page. Dan used
to work for Marc Rowe and Mark recommended him since Mark didn't have time
to do my car. Dan is located in Beverly MA and seems to do very good work.

Next up was the fuel system. Huge CarTech external pump, in tank pick-up,
-8 feed and -6 return lines, 1/2" fuel rails and 42# injectors. The FMU is
gone and I'm just using a nice adjustable regulator. With 42# injectors
the car still idles(most of the time) and I don't need the FMU to jack
fuel pressure to 80PSI to keep the engine feed under boost.

Like this the car ran 12.0/11.9's the first few trips to the track this year.
Basically where I was last year - which is good.

I ended up walking home from the track(acutally Bruce gave me a ride home,
thanks Bruce) on my second outing of the year when the oil pump
seized...ouch.... Fortunately I shut the car down right away and no real
damage was done to the engine. I've put about 1000 miles on the car, and
about ten 1/4 mile runs since and all seems well. 

With the fuel system sorted out I then pulled the 11PSI pulley off the
supercharger and put on the 17PSI pulley! On May 25th Eric and I took a
trip out to Lebanon Valley since the Super Chevy guys were at NED. I had
a rough day being fairly inconsistant but managed a best of 11.69 at 
119.85MPH with a 1.76 short time. I'm thinking low 11.5's with better 60'
times and 120MPH+. I know the Supercharger belt is slipping so maybe even more
when I get that straightened out. All of this is making me very nervous
expecting to have the car drive me to the track AND drive home again. So, I'm
now in the market for a car trailer. If anyone knows of any used trailers
around let me know. 

/Mike

    Yeow! 120 mph? I'm thinking maybe 11.3s when you get the perfect air
    pressure in the slicks, and sidestep the pedal at around 5K.
    
    Yup. A trailer is definitely the hot tip :-). When Rick Nelson ('90
    Vette, Lingenfelter stuff) got to running 11.0s and breaking halfshafts
    like toothpicks, he got himself an enclosed trailer and has slept better
    ever since.
    
    Of course, when he switched to a 700R4, he only broke one more halfshaft
    (one that already had plenty of passes on it when the car was still a
    six-speed), and now he's going 10.9s with the auto.
    
    Food for thought, Mike? A C-6, maybe?
    
    Bruce
    
    PS - This makes my 13.90 pass last Friday seem just a wee bit tame :-).

    Having a trailer handy will help you drive better too.  You won't
    have to worry about getting stuck, walking, leaving car at track, etc...  
    
    Quick ideas could be a tow bar (naw)
    Dolly (naw... both of these require drive shaft to be dropped before use)
    
    Trailer: What I do, rent it from y'all-haul.  $40/weekend.  A "good"
    trailer costs $1200.  That's 30 weeks of rentals.  If you are racing
    for money, expense the trailer.  Also, get yourself a come along.  The
    trailer is useless if you can't get your car onto it.
    
    U-haul trailers are HEAVY, 2500#'s.  There's a place around here
    that had a new flat trailer, 16 foot, no options for $950.  When you
    start putting options on it (brakes, steel box/cabinets, etc...) the
    price goes up accordingly.
                                                   
    What are you going to tow with?
    
    Regards,
    MadMike

                     <<< Note 58.271 by MROA::AUGENSTEIN >>>
                              -< Gettin' Serious >-
    
>    Food for thought, Mike? A C-6, maybe?
>    
>    Bruce
>    

I'm waiting for Eric to make a few passes on his new C4 before switching.....
Given I'm running a stock T5 that has not broken in 2 years I'm seriously
overdue.....Also I hate to think what my stock(original) clutch looks like
right now, after 45K miles and around 500 1/4 runs....

The biggest concern I have about switching to a C4 is picking a convertor 
that will launch hard but not burnup if I'm out driving around town. I've
given up thinking the Mustang is an everyday car but still like to bomb
around town. I'm thinking of a 4000-4500RPM stall convertor. Given where
my car makes power this is what I want for the strip. Anyone have any 
comments on the streetablility of a setup like this? My main concern is
will this live on the street, not how nice it is to drive or what my
gas mileage will be.

thanks
/Mike

    
    re: -last

    mike, my 2� worth. I drive my '57 on the street a lot with a 3500
    stall...and it's a bit of a problem...lot of slack between idle and
    movement in first gear... But, it's been in almost two years (but only
    about 400 miles) and still going strong after the street and now I've
    got the car on the strip every chance I get (only about 40-50 passes to
    date). I don't know if all of this makes for a 'great comparison
    to your project...

    It might be the quality (B&M HoleShot) or it might be how I somewhat
    pamper it...I don't know. TCI makes a good converter (5500 in my V8 Vega
    almost 300 passes - before sending it in for refresh...tested OK but I
    had them put new bearings in anyway)

    I'd only suggest you get the best converter you can afford ( you might
    look at getting or installing a drain plug keep the fluid clean and
    fresh) and go for it - adjust your street driving habit as
    necessary....  
    Oh, and don't forget to get a tranny shield and fly-wheel shield ;^)
    if the tranny you get is not SFI rated

    rich                                  

    IMO you want to be looking at the TCI 10" "street fighter" converter.
    It produces 3000-3500 stall, which is a vague guideline.  Behind a
    dreamers mustang, it may actually work at 2800, while behind your
    engine it might stall at 4500 rpm.  The actual stall speed of the
    converter is determined by the amount of torque your engine makes.
    The more torque fed in, the better the converter works.
    
    10 inches is as low as you can go and still drive around town, to
    some degree.  Your main problem will be *HEAT*.
    
    Do absolutetly everything you can to cool down the transmission.
    Huge cooler, aluminum cooling pan, etc...    
    
    I run a TCI TH350 which has been hammered, but it's been in there
    for over 7 years and it works fine, still.  My converter is a
    Dynamic 3500 stall converter.  Back when this thing was put
    together, "certain other companies" stuff was considered junk, in the
    torque converter dept.  So a Dynamic converter (who I'd never heard of)
    went in.  TCI stuff is good.  I don't know about B&M, I just have one
    of their shifters.
    
    Regards,
    MadMike

    <<< Note 58.272 by VMSNET::M_MACIOLEK "Four54 Camaro/Only way to fly" >>>
               -< Not only sleep better, but drive better too. >-

>    Having a trailer handy will help you drive better too.  You won't
>    have to worry about getting stuck, walking, leaving car at track, etc...  

I agree, I've been leaving the line like a wimp since the end of last
year out of fear of breaking....
    
>    Trailer: What I do, rent it from y'all-haul.  $40/weekend.  A "good"
>    trailer costs $1200.  That's 30 weeks of rentals.  If you are racing
>    for money, expense the trailer.  Also, get yourself a come along.  The
>    trailer is useless if you can't get your car onto it.
    
Trying to rent a trailer around here isn't that easy, at least not on
short notice. When my car broke at the track this year I spend over an
hour on the phone trying to find a trailer within a 100 miles the next day.
Ended up borrowing a trailer from a friend of a friend.... Given the
amount I like to race(2-3 times per month) buying seems to make sense.

>    What are you going to tow with?

I finally got rid of my rusted out 86 Escort winter beater and got a truck

/Mike

    If you decide to run the rental deal, what'll happen is a trailer
    will be moved into your local area for you to pick up.  Then when
    you return it, it'll sit there, and you'll rent it again.  Get
    friendly with the person who owns the shop and let them know you're
    going to use it regularly, and he'll sit on it.  He may even give
    you a better rental price since you'll use it each week.  Say
    $100/month.  Assuming you race each week into november, that's
    $600.  
    
    Right now renting works for me cause my car never works.  When I get
    serious, I'm going to have to decide wether a friend will build me
    a trailer, or I'll buy one from a trailer place.  The trailer place
    is affiliated with an RV shop, so shop around at RV centers.  You
    know those people with the $200,000 bus need a car trailer to tow
    the mercedes around...  :^)
    
    Regards,
    MadMike

    Also keep you eyes open at the track. My brother bought his trailer
    from a guy at the track that decided he wanted to get an enclosed one.
    Ask around at the track, my brother's deal surfaced when a bunch of
    guys were just shooting the bull and he mentioned he wanted to pick up
    a trailer.
    
    		Dave

    
    
    Well, I'm mostly a read only person..but I love 5.0 mustangs, and miss
    my 88 GT....with a few minor things like pulleys and K+N filter etc..
    it would run low 14's at around 98 on street tires.
    
    I've been looking to see how Eric and Mike are doing with their Stangs
    this year now that they have the ATI pro chargers...so guys, whats the
    latest update ? Any new exciting e.t's to report ??
    
    Curious,
    
    Chris

Hi Chris,

	I'm still here...I ran 11.63@119MPH at the end of June, then
proceded to burn out my clutch on the next launch. I'm sure that was
going to be an 11.5 run if the clutch held up. As I was doing my burnout
the starter was spraying taction compound all over the starting line in
my lane. So I launched harder than normal, the car hooked for a second and
then just started slipping and all I could smell was smoke from the
clutch..... 

	I can't complain, it was the original clutch, 45K miles, and over 500
1/4 miles on it! I figure it's been slipping for awhile and was probably the
only reason my stock T5 hasn't broken in a last couple years. 

	Eric has been having some good luck with his C4, and there is now
a C4 and 9" converter in my garage waiting to go into the car. I probally
won't be ready to race it this weekend but will be the week after. 


/Mike


(hey Bruce do you have your son's Saleen yet?)

    Yup, got the red critter back in early June.
    
    My son pranged it a bit while running it back east - in a blizzard
    whilst crossing the Rockies in Colorado. It's been in the shop since
    then, until last week.
    
    Now, it's installation time for shocks, brakes, clutch, blower bearings,
    et al, before I get it up to NED for a shakedown pass or two.
    
    It's got about 91K on it, but looks good and runs well.
    
    I'm forecasting 10s :-).
    
    Bruce

    
    Hi Mike,
    
      Thats pretty impressive ! Must be quite a rush..
    
      How well is Eric doing with the auto ?? Has he had much
      chance to make some runs with it ?
    
      Well, a friend of mine just got another Mustang, 88 GT..so
      I think we might be at Epping this weekend to get some times
      for it being stock....then over time I'm sure it'll get quicker.
    
      Fun Ford weekend is coming.....can't wait !!
    
      Chris
    

My best run to date is an 11.462 at 118.93 mph. It felt like I was 
really haulin'.  This happened last Saturday at Epping.

The short update is 11 PSI procharger, TFS high port heads, C4 automatic,
8-inch converter that now stalls at around 4600 rpm. 

I need to write some stuff up. A lot has happened and I having been properly
noting. I'll try to finish an update for tomorrow.

Eric

    I've got a '87 Mustang GT with stock wheels.  Here's what I'd like to
    do, and need someone to confirm that this is true:
    
    The stock wheels are 15" "turbine" looking aluminum wheels and have
    some dings from curbs and such.  I'd also like to go to a 16" wheel
    without going after market.
    
    I'm told that from '91-'93, GT's came with those 16" 5-spoke "star" 
    wheels, which I think  look totally cool.  :-)  I'm also told that they
    should fit on my 4-lug pattern with no problems.
    
    Secondly, since my stock tires are 225vr60, I thought I'd best go with
    a vr/zr 50 to clear the wheel-wells and other front-end components.
    
    So, what I want to do is:
    
    A) Buy (from a bone yard, or someone here who might have 'em) a set of
    four, stock 16" wheels from a '91-'93 Mustang GT.
    
    B) Buy four 225zr50's from BF Goodrich (or something similar).
    
    Can anyone verify that these years' GT's did in fact have a 4-lug
    pattern and that the wheels should bolt right up??
    
    Thanks!
    jc
    
    
      

>    Can anyone verify that these years' GT's did in fact have a 4-lug
>    pattern and that the wheels should bolt right up??

Yep, they have the standard 4-lug bolt pattern. 

/Mike    
    
      

    YES!!
    
    (Insert picture of jc jumping with joy HERE)
    
    Now, does anyone know of anyone who wants to unload a set of stock 
    wheels??
    
    :-)

    
    Hi,
    
    Well, Fun Ford Weekend at N.E.D is this coming weekend....anyone
    going this year ?? Eric, Mike ???
    
    I'll be there...maybe camping out at Pine acres in Raymond...
    
    Chris

>    Well, Fun Ford Weekend at N.E.D is this coming weekend....anyone
>    going this year ?? Eric, Mike ???



This weekend! ARGHHHHHHHHHHH...... I'm so stupid, I just pulled the converter
out of my car and sent it back for them to tighten up, it's stalling
to high, I won't see it until next week!

I'm thinking of a backup plan now(putting the T5 back in is not an option).
I was thinking of a cheap converter, Mike Forte suggested a stock C4 
converter. It will be slower, but shouldn't break. He thought I had a good 
chance of blowing up a low end street/strip converter considering I'm making
about 450 ft/lbs of torque. For $100 bucks I think I might try it. Does
this make sense to anyone out there who knows transmissions, I'd hate to
trash my new C4 by breaking the converter!

thanks
/Mike

    
    Hi Mike,
    
     Yup, this weekend.......so, sounds like you WANT to go ! :^)
    
     A friend and I will be there in a stock 88GT...Don't know if
    it would make sense to even run it or not...
    
     Sorry, don't know about the converter question ! Hopefully someone
    does though...
    
     Chris

    11.40 at 120 mph. What a ride. 
    
    I was so inspired that I ordered new  10" slicks with associated rims.
    Right now I'm using a pair of beat 26X8.5" MT's and traction is a real
    problem if I launch at anything over 3000 rpms. My short times are in
    the 1.65 to 1.75 range. That isn't impressive. Hopefully, with the 10"
    slicks, I should be able to bring the short times into the 1.50 range.
    
    Basically I'm seeking two things -- Air under my front wheels, and a
    10.XXX timeslip :-).
    
    Bruce A. was also in attendence this past Friday at New England
    Dragway. He ran a 1.94 60' time with his radial tire equipped manual
    transmission BMW! This is the single most impressive act I've ever
    witnessed while at the dragstrip. Amazing. He was duly rewarded
    with 13.76 @ 100 mph timeslip.
    
    Way to go Bruce!
    
    Eric

    
     Hey Eric,
    
       Are you going to put a bigger drive pulley on the ATI to go with
    the new slicks..??
    
       Hmmm...when will you be going up there next ?
    
    
     Chris

    
     ooppppsss, I think that shoulda been smaller drive pulley :^)
    
    
     Chris
    

    Chris,
    
    The smaller pulley is in the back of my mind; for now. I'd like to get
    there by squeezing what I have. The day I feel this car doesn't have
    another 2 tenths is when I'm calling ATI. 
    
    Figure 2-3 weeks from now. :-)
    
    Eric

    Well, the Saleen is starting to shape up nicely.
    
    I got it from Rich (my older son) back in June, and promptly sent it
    to the shop to get some front end damage (courtesy of a Colorado guard
    rail during a late May blizzard on the trip from California to
    Massachusetts) repaired. I got it back two months later (delay on
    Saleen parts) in very fine shape.
    
    Since then, this 90K mile car has gotten new Racecraft shocks all
    around, new sneakers (225/50ZR16 Eagle GS-Cs), a new Centerforce Dual
    Friction clutch, new front brakes including new (Lincoln Mark VII $$)
    discs, a reinstalled stock Ford upper intake, Goehl castoff 24 lb.
    Motorsports injectors and Pro-M 77mm mass air, an Accel adjustable fuel
    pressure regulator and a Motorsports aluminum driveshaft.
    
    Still to be installed are the rebuilt/modified Vortech, now configured
    as an S-trim unit, an FMU air bleed screw (for backing off the ultimate
    pressure this 19-lb.-calibrated FMU will inflict on the fuel pump), a
    compressor bypass kit (recommended for S-trim units), new plugs, and the
    final installation of the massive Pro-M in the right fenderwell.
    
    On order are the Motorsports 190lph fuel pump and a custom set of
    eight-rib, five-psi (6.00" drive, 3.33" blower) pulleys, which ought to
    be good for around seven psi or possibly more with the S-trim and
    increased belt traction. I figure I'll be close to the limit of the
    190 lph pump at that point.
    
    (Still up in the air is some way to keep track of blower and fuel
    pressure, since I haven't yet seen any gauge package I actually like.
    I believe they'd be really useful right now, but with a future "Phase
    II" on this car (ported TFS Twisted Wedge heads, Edelbrock Intake,
    E303, 7" drive pulley and T-Rex), they'll be mandatory.) 
    
    As far as Stage I goes, with the previously-installed 65mm throttle
    body, 1 5/8" Motorsports shorties and MAC cat-back exhaust already on
    the car, I'm forecasting around 325 HP (100 over stock), and low 13s at
    107-108 mph, assuming the original cats haven't sh*t the bed, and
    assuming I can use full throttle in first gear. Rich went bests of 13.31
    and 106.05 mph with the blower in A-trim at 5 psi, and without the MAC
    cat-back.
    
    Talk is cheap, of course :-).
    
    Speaking of ETs and such, thanks for the plug, Eric, but as I told
    you, my mind is made up. There's a 13.6 in that 182 cubic inch, six
    cylinder, normally aspirated, 56 pound flywheeled, 3445 pound (with me
    aboard) bimmer, and it's my God-given right to extract it :-). I can
    even visualize a .58 or so, given one of those perfect October Saturdays.
    
    Talk is cheap, of course :-).
    
    Film at 11, as they say.
    
    Bruce  

    
    So Mike,
    
    Have you started getting another motor together yet ? Any plans on what
    the next one will be etc.. ??
    
    Can't wait for N.E.D. to open !
    
    Chris

Hi Chris,

	I haven't made much progress. I finally pulled the engine this
weekend. The damage was pretty impressive - the crank snapped in 2 places,
the webbing for the 1st 3 main caps just ripped away from the block, lots
of twisted rods and broken metal everywhere. I was sort of hoping the
heads were ok, but as expected I have a bunch of bent valves.

	I think I'm going to be dropping a used late model 302 in there
for this year and will just cross my fingers and hope it holds up. I've
looked at building something a lot stronger but don't have the $ to do it
this year. Hopefully next year I can do it right.

/Mike

    
    Hi Mike,
    
        What will you do for heads ? Are they fixable ?
    
        Got a pair of GT40's I'll sell ya :^)  
    
        Just kidding !!  I actually can't wait to get a chance to put them
    on my car.
    
    Chris

The heads themselves are fine, just need valves and maybe guides.
/mike

I've posted pictures of the damage to my old engine after the crank broke on
my web page. If you want to take a look go to - 

http://www.ultranet.com/~mikec1/car.shtml

/Mike

    Impressive.  I like the leave (to Z28.com)  :^)
    
    MadMike

>    Impressive.  I like the leave (to Z28.com)  :^)
>    
>    MadMike

Well I don't want those Chevy guys hanging around making fun of my car.
I much rather meet up with them at the track.......

Looks like I'll have to find another page to link to since z28.com doesn't 
seem to be active anymore.

    Wow! Most impressive! I stand in awe.... :-(
    
    Harry
    

    re: mike
    
    On the contrary... linking to a chebby spot that says "sorry, due
    to lack of sponsorship I'm shutting down".  That's the rock&roll camaro
    guy, or wuz...  made me chuckle.
    
    MadMike

    
    Wish I could see the pics, I'm on a VT1200.....
    
    Oh well !
    
    Chris

Hey Bruce,

	So is the Saleen ready for Epping to open? Can I expect to see
ET's posted April 3ed? 

/Mike

    I've got a day's worth of work to do on it, hopefully sometime between
    now and the end of the month. Crane Hi6-TR, Kennebell Boost-A-Pump, and
    some slightly different PVC plumbing to better route the intake air
    from the Pro-M inside the fender to the Vortech.
    
    Oh, yeah. It's got a minor oil leak which I think may be PCV-related,
    so I'me routing the breather tube to the new PVC pipe......
    
    And then there's the......
    
    Nope. It ain't ready. :-)
    
    I'll be there in April, though - skating on 225/50s all the way.
    
    Bruce 

    
    Opens on wednesday huh ?...hmm, maybe I'll go. Anyone else up for it ?
    
    Eric ? You must have the itch to make a few runs....
    
    Chris

    
    Wow, kinda dead in here lately...Everyone getting ready for the
    season ?
    
    Mike, hows the motor coming along ?? Is it going to be ready soon ?
    
    We should get a group from digital to head to epping soon. I plan
    on going on the 2nd.
    
    Oh yea, another question I had maybe Eric or Mike would know..If I
    switch to an E303 cam, will I notice much of a loss in gas milage ?
    
    The car is a daily driver, getting 700 miles a week......
    
    Chris
    

>    Wow, kinda dead in here lately...Everyone getting ready for the
>    season ?

yes
    
>    Mike, hows the motor coming along ?? Is it going to be ready soon ?

Not sure about how soon, I move slow.... The block is now clean and has
nice new cam bearings. I should have the crank back by tomorrow. It needed
to be ground. Then I can start puttings things back together.

    
>    We should get a group from digital to head to epping soon. I plan
>    on going on the 2nd.

I'm up for a group thing once I'm up and running again
    
>    Oh yea, another question I had maybe Eric or Mike would know..If I
    switch to an E303 cam, will I notice much of a loss in gas milage ?

Gas mileage? Guess I really don't remember, and with 42# fuel injectors
and a C4 with a high stall converter I don't ever bother checking my mileage
anymore...

    
    Seems to me a couple years ago, Epping allowed passengers on friday
    night...anyone know if they still do at all ??
    
    Thanks,
    
    Chris

    
    Anyone else heading up to Epping tonight ?
    
    Chris

    
    First time ever bringing the car to Epping last night.
    
    Best run 13.82 @ 101.74 !
    
    Better then I expected !
    
    Chris

Last Saturday, I packed up Ol' Red (the Saleen) with timing light, distributor 
wrench, tire pressure gauge and helmet, and sallied forth to New England 
Dragway to do battle. I never *did* get to install the HI-6 TR or the 
Boost-A-Pump, but I met up with this '97 Cobra out on 495 while airing the 
Saleen out on Patriot's Day, and I got the bug for some NED action :-). (Yeah, 
took 'im from a 65 roll, three times, but he ran really well from those 
speeds, and it wasn't by much.)

I started off by adding two gallons of Sunoco 94 to the slightly-less-than 
quarter of a tank while still in Acton, to make sure I got up there with the 
proper level of gas when I arrived.

I had a plan, you see.

The first thing I did after checking in was to head over to the gas shack and 
add two gallons of leaded (gasp) 108 octane rocket fuel. Then I let it cool a 
bit before......

What's that? You wanna get to the bottom line before I go on forever with my 
story?

OK. The bottom line is 13.44 seconds.

You're not thrilled by that, since it went 13.31 back in '93, with Rich 
aboard? OK. BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

Starting in second gear(!)

NOW HOW MUCH WOULD YOU PAY? BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

106.71 mph, at a total vehicle weight of 3610 pounds!

*NOW* HOW MUCH WOULD YOU PAY? BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

Now can I tell my story?

On the first pass, I line up in the right lane after a short burnout, and 
settle in at 1500 rpm. I figure I'll be easy on clutch and throttle, and just 
ease out.

Right. The car doesn't even honor me with a decent screech. Just sort of a 
WHIZZZZZZing sound as the tach heads for the big numbers. I back out of it, 
and gently squeeze the right pedal back down. At maybe three-quarter throttle, 
the tires instantly go WHIZZZZZZ again, so I go for second gear, and the tires 
immediately go WHIZZZZZZ again! Undaunted, I back out of it and then gently 
squeeze back down, and now it hooks. Of course, we're at maybe 2000 rpm in 
second, and *well* down the strip by this time.

I am now somewhat daunted :-), but we soldier on to a fantastic 16.16, at 
100.90 mph, with a 2.75 second short time. Cool.

Since traction is simply unavailable today, and trap speeds will tell me what 
I want to know about power (which is what I'm here for), I make the second 
gear decision. What the hell. It'll be slow but measurable.

The next pass, I launch at 3000 rpm in second, bog down to maybe 1000, and 
slowly roll out (2.38 short) as the boost starts to come up. There just ain't 
anything wrong with how the car runs when we get out past the 60 foot mark, 
though, and two lift-the-gas 5500 shifts later, I'm across the line at maybe 
5200 rpm. The timeslip says 13.98 @ 104.85. Hmmmm. Pretty good, I'd say. Air 
density was just under 100% on Saturday, and the best the car had ever gone 
before (back in '93) was a 106.05, at nearly 102% air density, and at maybe 
3520 pounds or so. I am heartened.

Now for phase II of the plan.

I bump the timing from nine degrees to twelve degrees initial (remember the 
racing fuel), and, using the same launch and shiftpoints, the car responds 
with a 13.86 @ 105.57, with a 2.32 short. Allright! Nearly three quarters of a 
mile per hour better. Now we're startin' to cook!

Phase III is to back the FMU bleed screw all the way out, and see if the car 
likes it leaner.

It does.

I complicate matters a little by getting an *insane* launch, starting at 3000 
again, but feathering the clutch so that rpm flares to around 3500. I slip 
that sucker out to about the 60 foot point, holding it at 3500 until car speed 
catches up to engine speed, and the car responds with a 13.48 @ 106.45, with a 
2.21 short! This starting line technique is one I've used often (with both 
Vettes and with the M3), but *never* in second gear. You have to slip it *so 
long* compared to first gear, and back in the staging lanes I can smell clutch 
even before I stop the car. Paul (the starter) later tells me he saw clutch 
smoke coming out from under the car during that launch, so I clearly did it 
right :-). As a bonus, the clutch engagement point, which was a little too 
close to the floor before, is now perfect :-). Far be it from me to actually 
turn the little Forte's doohickey on the firewall. It's easier to just cook it 
down to where you want it. :-).

Ah well. The speed is the important thing, and I've gotten nearly a mph by 
simply backing out the bleed screw, which delays the fuel pressure hit from
3 1/2 psi to about 4 psi.

As luck would have it after that pass, I drive into a staging lane that is 
already being directed out onto the track, and they direct me forward. I'm not 
thrilled by this, since the engine is dead hot from the last pass less than 
five minutes ago, as is the clutch. I don't feather it on this launch for fear 
of clutch meltdown, and the resulting bog gets me back to a 2.32 short, and a 
13.92 timeslip. I make a spur of the moment decision on this pass, though, and 
hold third gear until 5900 rpm. The car responds with a 106.71 trap speed. 
Hmmmm.

Phase IV is 14 degrees of initial timing. Gulp.

I get out pretty well with clutch slip for around two and a half car lengths, 
followed by a mild bog. The launch is actually better than expected, however, 
netting me a 2.14(!) short time. The bog costs me in the 60-330 foot area 
though, since I carried less speed at the 60 foot point. Not to worry though. 
I get a 13.44, at 106.33 mph. Hmmmm. The 660-1320 time was the best of the 
day, but the mph wasn't up. Hmmmm.

The last pass is mildly hurried, without much cooldown, since it's getting 
late and I don't know when they'll block the staging lanes.

Phase V is 5900 shift points, but I don't know how a warm engine will affect 
my times. I dutifully launch with mild aggression, and net a 2.25 short time 
on my way to a 13.73 @ 105.50. Hmmmm.

I assume the warm engine meant I was losing time with the aggressive 14 
degrees of timing, and I can't tell whether 5900 shift points are worth 
anything or not. That was the last pass for the day, so a question or two will 
still be unanswered until another time. Oh well.

So what's the REAL bottom line?

There are several points to it. The first is that, calculating from trap speed 
vs car weight, Ol' Red is making 97 more horsepower than it did last October. 
A basic calculation showing that it made 253 horsepower last October (with 
Pro-M, 65mm throttle body, 1 5/8" coated headers and Dynomax cat-back), shows 
that it is making 350 horsepower now. Calculations are just that, but even if 
the car was making somewhat less than 253 horspower last October, it's still 
making a *ton* now. I would estimate absolutely no less than 325 horsepower 
already. More on that in a minute.

The second point is that it appears to be making at least 15 more horsepower 
than it did when it ran its best speeds back in '93. At least 20 horsepower if 
you factor in air density on both days. This proves two things: The S-trim 
really works, and the 92K mile engine and catalytic converters are still in 
*excellent* shape.

The last point is that there is definitely more power to be had from this 
combination. Judging by the response to that FMU air bleed, this car wants a 
good deal less fuel. I have a feeling that the 6:1 FMU kit and appropriate air 
bleed fiddling will get us maybe another 10 horsepower or so, and there will 
be more from the Crane HI-6 TR, as well. I'm setting my sights on 108 mph on a 
good day with me aboard, and more than that with my son in the saddle. He not 
only weighs less, but he powershifts as well, which I won't do on his car.

And that 13.44, backed by a 13.48, starting in *second gear*? Who'd a thunk 
it?

I'm a happy guy.

Bruce

    Bruce you never stop amazing me!
    
    Fry-it-to-adjust & grind-it-'till-it-fits!  :-)
    
    
    /tb/

    Reminds me of a couple of my favorite sayings.
    
    Beat it to fit, paint it to match.
    
    Then there's the US Government way of doing things:
    
    Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a piece of chalk and cut it
    with an axe. :-)
    
    Harry
    

>I'm a happy guy.
>
>Bruce


Whyzzat?  'cause your inspection of the flywheel didn't reveal any cracks 
or the spring tester said the pressure plate springs didn't melt too bad 
and still have enough tension to hold up under a 5900 rpm powershift into 
top gear?

> Whyzzat?  'cause your inspection of the flywheel didn't reveal any cracks 
> or the spring tester said the pressure plate springs didn't melt too bad 
> and still have enough tension to hold up under a 5900 rpm powershift into 
> top gear?
> 

Nope. I'm just naturally happy. :-)

Of course, there's also the fact that I've been doing this on the edge stuff
with street-weinie cars for a long time now, and my experience is that as 
long as you don't do repeated shennanigans, all you'll get is accelerated 
wear. Subsequent driving has shown the clutch springs to be fine - which of 
course they should be, if they're only as good as factory stuff. Their 
reputation is better than that, though.

Flywheel cracks? Possibly, but I've never had that problem. Just between you 
and me, I've done worse things than this to my own cars, and never had more 
than mild blueing.

On the other hand, if ya wanna play, ya gotta pay :-), and that's fine by me.

Bruce

PS - Skip, you should see what these guys do up there - with stock clutches 
and flywheels. I've been amazed at what this stuff can take. 

The LX now has a best time of 12.87 @106.8. Things are looking up. 
Should be in the 12.5 territory with some good air and traction.

Rikuo 
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

So what's in that LX?

It's clearly hauling some ET butt for that speed......

Bruce

Well my Mustang is alive again finally. I finally got it running again
yesterday. It's running a more or less stock '87 short block with my
Edlebrock heads and GT40 intake. I re-built the '87 block myself
so I was a little nervous about starting it up, so I bugged Eric
to come over and watch. It was pretty uneventful - started up easy and
no major problems yet. I put about 20 miles on it last night. I'll
re-torque the heads tonight and I need to mess with the rocker arms - 
it's a little too nosiey. The plan is to put some miles on it quick and
make a few trips to the track as-is to get a baseline ET. Then the
supercharger goes back on.....

/mike