Conference vmszoo::rc

    The last 2 issues of RCM had a multi part series on a Tx modified
    by some guys at MOTORALA. They used one of Motorala's new CMOS 
    micros that has 8 channels built-in. You might wnat to look them
    up for more info. They modified 3 or 4 different transmitters
    andding all sort of bells & whistles ..
    
    md

    I ordered one of the last two Airtroinics MD7SP radios that were
    available in the Country from Tower last week.  This is the first
    radio that I have every ordered brand new.  Boy I cant wait.  
    
    I am looking forward to doing just about everything possible to
    any type of Sailplane that I should buy with this radio.  Including
    alot of the stuff that Chris talked about in his prev. note.
    
    There is a mod to this radio called a ATRACS converion that makes
    it similiar to new computer controlled radios that are comming on
    the market.  The probably most complex task to be done on a sail
    plane would be a crow type configuration that Chris kinda led to.
    This is Flaps down, Ailerons up and then throw in a dash of up elevator
    to keep things on the level and all of this while maintaining
    diferential movement on the ailerons for control.
    
    
    Anyway, I cant wait for my MD7SP to get here, in fact I just called
    Tower and they said it was shipped on the 22nd of Oct.  I wanted
    to call because I didnt really believe they had it in.  I just wish
    it would have been avail on 50 mhz.  oh well

    Tycho has had that for a while, but it's not too portable.  See,
    the 21-slot S-100 machine (can you say boat anchor?) reads the
    joysticks, performs various mixing and matching, then writes the
    relevant output voltages to the 7-channel encoder which in turn
    drives the RF module in the transmitter.  Now if I could only get
    some time to write some C code to make some different look_up_tables.
    
    Willie

>< Note 737.0 by CSTEAM::HENDERSON "Mode-1 for Ever" >
>                        -< Programmable Radio's Forum. >-

Was reading Larry Jolly's Helicopter column when I came across this
interesting tidbit. 

Airtronics had Bob and Tim Renaud showing all their neat new ideas
in radio and kit technology.  Besides showing their popular PCM radios,
i.e., Spectrum, they also discussed a Helicopter computer system due next
year.  It will be similar in layout to the new Vision system for Sailplane
applications. ...

Never heard of a Vision system - anybody know something about it?
There is a reference to the RC Soaring column in MA but I don't remember
seeing it there?

I saw an add for a CS7HS AM Airtronics for $179 so I called Airtronics
to see if it could be made 1991 compatible - for $79.00 they would convert
it from AM to FM and replace the receiver.  I asked if there were any
new Single sticks coming down the pike - he said in 1990.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    Does anyone else in noteland (maybe Europe) use Multiplex radio
    gear? It is made in West Germany and I was converted to it by my
    club about five years ago. Currently, I use a Royal Expert transmitter
    which uses a PROM or an EPROM for programming.
    I am building my first delta plane and would like to know how to
    mix the M1 module to provide elevon controls. The summary in the
    handbook says it can be done for this module, but the individual
    module instructions give no hints.
    There are so many combinations of switches and functions, that I
    would appreciate any guidance that would save some time.
    
    Tony
     

    A good friend of mine uses MULTIPLEX radios flying his F3b planes.  But
    he does not use the M1 module and I think this may be key.  He uses I
    believe the M3 and the M6 modules.  I take it you want to know how to
    do the elevons.  I can check with him on that and let you know.
    
    

    Mark
    
    I believe that both the M1 and M3 modules can provide elevon mixing,
    but there are no detailed instructions. Last night I checked and
    I think that using the V-tail mixer plus the coupled aileron-rudder
    mixer would provide elevons. I would be very interested in what
    knowledge your friend has.
    
    Thanks
    Tony
     

    Is anyone using or got any information on the Futuba Field Force 7
    radio gear ? All the info I have been able to get is the single page
    advertisment in the magazines - no a whole lot of detail on what can be
    done in terms of programming. So anyone got any better information ? 
    
    Regards,
    
    Eric();
    
    
   

Hi Eric,

	Are you talking about the aircraft or the heli set ? 

	I plumped for the FF7 Heli set when I bought my Concept and am very 
pleased with it. I have no idea what the diference is between the fixed wing 
version and the one I've got, but I can tell you a bit about the heli set if 
you are interested. My only complaint (sort of) is that a couple of weeks 
after I bought it, JR brought out a new set for around the same sort of price 
with (presumably) much the same features but with the added benefit of a 4 
model memory. Having flown the Concept with the FF7 programable set and also 
resurected the old Mini Boy with old standard 6 ch. Sanwa Custom gear, I have 
been very tempted to go out and get a second Rx etc. for the Mini Boy but then 
I would have the problem of resetting all the bits and bobs when changing 
between the two choppers.
	Apart from that, I havn't found anything that I can't get it to do, 
but then again I'm still getting to grips with simple flying and havn't even 
read up about the INVERT switch and the other advanced stuff.

	If you want to know more drop me a mail and I'll try and get the 
manual copied if you like.

	Cheers,
	Ken Lee.

    Hi Ken,
    
    If you didn't get my mail could you pop a photocopy of the FF7 manual
    in the mail. Thanks.
    
    Eric Cullen
    GAE 1/22 ESASE Galway Ireland.
     

Al Ryder did something interesting.  He called Airtronics and asked
for a Vision manual.  So I asked him to send me a copy.

OK - now I would like to see why they think that the Futaba PCM9
and the JR MAX-10 are not capable of controlling a complex
sailplane - so - does anybody want to volunteer to send me a copy
of the manual of a MAX-10 and/or PCM-9.

Here is an unspecified spec we should all care about with these
fancy new radios - Airtronics (ATRCS) claim a very fast sample
rate (I don't know if they spec it) and Futaba claims a large
word width for D to A conversion (10 bit) but...

Airtronics doesn't mention their word width and Futaba doesn't mention
their sample rate.  Seems like there is a trade off here.  If you
have better resolution but a slower sample rate or vice versa
then I would like to see someone with a huge rudder throw (like
Eric's Panic) and very slowly move the stick to see if I can see
the sample rate or resolution become visible.

Any comments?

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    When I was at CSL who manufactures the ATRACS and the guts inside the
    VISION they had a PCM 1024 on the bench, reverse engineering it you
    might say.  And while they spoke high of most parts of it they weren't
    that impressed over some others.  Things that seem to stand out (its
    been a while):
    
    Plus:
    The touch screen
    The graphs used when modifing a throw or something (ATRACS uses
    percents)
    
    Negs:
    No Servo Centering
    and some others.
    
    Maybe I shouldn't have put my foot in my mouth.  But call up either Tom
    or Gene at CSL and ask them "Why should I NOT by a PCM 1024, why should
    I buy a VISON/ATRACS"  They would be glad to tell you!
    
    

 
    Here is a description of the Futuba Field Force 7 - part manual part my own.
    
    Regards 
    
    Eric();

    
    
Futuba Field Force 7. 
---------------------

Set Contents.
-------------


Transmitter:
------------
FP-T7UAP (FP-T7UAF) 2 sticks, 7 channels, PCM or FM transmitter.
Tx Freq:            72 MHz,50 MHz, 35/36 MHz, 40/41 MHz or 29 MHz band. 
Modulation:         FM-PCM/PPM Selectable. 
Power requirements: 9.6 Nicad battery pack. Current drain: 200 mA.


Receiver:
---------
Receiving frequency:    same as Tx. 
Intermediate frequency: 1st IF 10.7 MHz, 2nd IF 455kHz. 
Power requirements:     4.8V Nicad battery pack. 
Current drain:          35mA (R129DP), 
                        26mA (R128DF), 
                        25mA (R137GP). 
Dimensions:             63.0 x 37.8 x 24.1mm (R129DP), 
                        63.8 x 35.4 x 20.3mm  (R128DF), 
                        57 x 42 x 24mm (R137GP). 
Weight:                 45g(R129DP), 
                        40g(R128DF), 
                        45g(R137GP). 
Receiving range:        500m on the ground,
                        1000m in the air.


Servos:
-------
FP-S3001                4 off.
Control system:         + pulse width control.
Operating angle:        Rotary system, one side 45 degrees or greater (inc trim)
Power requirements:     4.8V or 6.0V (shared with receiver).
Current drain:          8mA at 6V ( at idle). I measured about 80-100mA when 
                        moving servo (or thrashing at end of travel).
Output Torque:          3kg/cm.
Operating speed:        0.22 sec / 60 degrees.
Dimensions:             40.4 x 19.8 x 36mm.
Weight:                 45.1g, 1.59 oz.


Transmitter Battery
-------------------

NT-8LP
Voltage:                9.6V.
Capacity:               500mAh.


Receiver Battery
----------------

NR-4J
Voltage:                4.8V.
Capacity:               500mAh.
Dimensions:             51 x 58 x 15mm.
Weight:                 95g, 3.35oz.

Accessories
-----------
Charger.
Receiver switch.
Extension cord (200m).
Servo horn packs.
Servo tray.
Tx hook band.
Frequency Flag or ribbon.

Crystal
-------

72 MHz: TYPE 72-10 Dual Conversion.
50 MHz: TYPE 50-10 Dual Conversion.
40 MHz: TYPE 40-10 Dual Conversion.
35 MHz: TYPE 36-10 Dual Conversion.



Display:

Normally the following is displayed in the LCD.

    1. servo reversed or normal.
    2. PCM or PPM.
    3. Tx Voltage.
    4. Elapsed time.
    5. flashing bar @ second.
    6. flashing bar @ minute.
    7. RF indicator.
    8/ Mixing indicator (snap roll button or 6->2 mixing).

Altering the settings is obtained by pressing both mode select buttons.
pressing the - or + mode select button scrolls through the 16 programmable
functions available:

ATV - D/R - EXP - REV - F/S - PMX1 - PMX2 - 2->6 - 6->2 - SNP - DIFF -
FLPR - FLTR - STRM - COMB - MOD.

After power on the first function is the ATV function else it is the last used 
function.

Other display modes:

    LBAT - tx batter low (<= 8.5V), buzzer sounds continuous, characters flash.

    BKUP - backup battery low, characters flash, continuous buzzer.


THE PROGRAMMABLE FUNCTIONS:
---------------------------

ATV (Adjustable Travel Volume)

This adjusts the servo left and right throw. Throw is adjustable  from 30% to
110% in plus or minus 1% increments for _BOTH_ directions for servo. (Nice to
have been able to go to 0% !). Display indicates side being adjusted and %. Each
Channel can be adjusted by moving the cursor right or left.


D/R (Dual Rate)

Dual rates can be set for Ch1 (aileron), Ch2 (elevator), and Ch4 (rudder).
D/R can be set for each direction of the D/R switch ( ie you can select which
switch position you want for the high rate and the low rate). The rate setting is
range again is 30 - 100%.


EXP (Exponential)

This function modifies the operating curve so that operation is easy when the
movement of the servos becomes sluggish or sensitive near the neutral position.
EXP can be set for Ch1 (aileron), Ch2 (elevator), Ch3 (throttle) and Ch4
(rudder). The rate can be set for each direction of the rate switch (no D/R for
throttle !). The rate setting range is -100% (slow side) to +100% (quick side)
in 4% steps. 

In English ! -100% means that near the stick centre position servo
movement is less and and the end of the stick travel the servo response is
greater. +100% is the opposite.


REV (Reverse)

All servos can be reversed.


F/S (Fail Safe)

F/S and HOLD Functions. These can be set for all channels. These can be
selected for all channels. HOLD - When interference makes reception impossible,
the servos are stopped in position just before erroneous operation was
performed. When the interference ceases the HOLD mode is released. F/S - When
interference makes reception impossible, the servos move to the position set at
the transmitter. When the interference ceases, the F/S mode is reset.

The F/S set data is automatically sent every minute (PPM mode does not have the
F/S function).


PMX1 (Programmable Mixing 1)

This mixing is useful in correcting bad tendencies of the aircraft and making
operation more pleasant - according to Futuba.

Basically it allows you to mix any two channels. Setting one of them as the
master and the other the slave. The left and right (up and down) mixing rate can
be set independently for both master and slave. The Programme mix switch
activates the mixing.

For example I programmed in throttle as the master channel with the elevator as
the slave. So that by reducing the throttle stick I get about +5% up elevator
for the up side of the throttle stick and +20% up elevator after the throttle
stick was on the down side of centre position. Anyway its very useful. One
could use it to land on a restricted runway where you can't land into the wind,
by mixing aileron and rudder.


PMX2 (Programmable Mixing 2)

This is the same as PMX1.


2->6 (elevator->flap mixing) 

This is used to apply mixing from the elevator to the flap. Mixing is usually
used so that the  flaps are lowered when the elevator is raised. It makes
circular manoeuvres with stunt aircraft smoother. The rate range is between 0
and +-100%. 


6->2 (flap->elevator mixing). 

Use this mixing when an air brake is necessary when landing or diving, etc
during flight. The rate range is between 0 and +-100%.


SNP (Snap-Roll)

This mixing allows 'avalanche' and other snap rolls to be performed. A switch
on the top left involks the programmed settings of the surfaces. Up / Down
being selected by a switch below the elevator stick. Right / Left again is
selected by another switch.

So there are 4 combinations of the UP/DOWN, RIGHT/LEFT switches and each of
these can be setup separately. Channels 1,2,4 and 5 can be mixed at will. Again
the rate % setting is adjustable between 0 and +-100% for both up/down or
right/left stick throws.

Channel 5 (landing gear) can be used to qualify the snap roll in that the snap
roll function can work with the gear up or down. If the SNP is programmed to
work only when the gear is up then the SNP switch won't operate and visa versa
with the gear up.

So summarising for each of the 4 types of SNP (depending on U/D, R/L switches)
you can mix 0 to +-100% of Ch 1,2 & 4 for each direction of the stick.


DIFF (Aileron Differential)

A left and right differential can be applied to the ailerons. This is effective
in roll axis correction. One snag is that you need a servo for each aileron.
The function expects Ch1 and Ch7 to be used. Aileron differential and flaperon
cannot be on simulaneously. The rate setting is 0 to +-100% for each direction.


FLPR (Flaperon)

This is a mixing function which gives the ailerons a flap function. The
ailerons can be raised and lowered simultaneously. Aileron operation is also
performed. The operating channels are Ch1 and Ch6. The rate setting is 0 to
+-100% for each direction.


FLTR (Flap Trim)

Flap Trim (Ch6) lever operation. This function limits the throw of the flaps.


STRM (Sub Trim)

The stick channel (Ch1-4) trim lever operating position can be adjusted. One
notch of the physical trim level is the same as a sub trim of about 6%.

I used this function to give me some right rudder to offset the engine torque.
It allowed me to leave the trim lever in the centre position - giving me full
trim with the lever.


COMB (Combination Switch)

Other D/R switch functions can be combined withe the aileron D/R switch...
    Mode 1  - AIL only.
    Mode 2 AIL,ELEV.
    Mode 3 AIL,ELEV,RUD.


MOD (Modulation)

the modulation setting can be switched between PCM and PPM.




Other notes:
------------

All of the programmable functions / mixing etc can be inhibited so that you are
operating a plain vanilla set. I like the easy changing of the Tx battery.
Another nice addition is the little covers that go in over the charging socket
and trainer cord socket when not in use. Sticks are length adjustable as well
as the stick tension. One addition that I have not come across before was a
note on the servo horns and which side to use to shift the servo neutral
position.

Preliminary Airtronics Vision SP Review
=======================================

Summary

Things that are better than other computer radios:
    Cost 
    Special Sailplane functions (such as reverse aileron differential in Crow)
    Receiver specifications
    
Things that are worse than other computer radios:
    Less model storage
    No Clock
    Ergonomic Engineering not up to competition
    No Failsafe (other than hold last)

Details:

As most of you know from previous notes I have had the hots for an Airtronics
Vision Sailplane radio for some time.  Since Santa is bringing me a Dodgson
Lovesong I felt that I could take advantage of some of the special features
offered in the Vision.  I had purchased the cheapest compatible Airtronics
for my Sagitta (the Vanguard 4 ch) and although I like the receiver I hate the
transmitter.  Without dual rates and end point adjusts I felt that I could
never use the transmitter after I get a vision.  If I had to do it over again
I would have ordered the 6 channel Vanguard FM instead (about $30 more).
That way I would have a better radio for a backup.  On the other hand I have
since determined that the nothing backs up a Vision except another Vision
or newer radio - because of the channel swapping that occurs.  That is
in order to run my Sagitta on the 4 channel or 6 channel Vanguard I have to
get at the receiver and change the servo connections.

Anyway I had the Sagitta with an Airtronics FM receiver and am building
a Thermal Charger (hope to finish tonight or tomorrow night) and plan
to install another Airtronics FM receiver in it.  I also have a Hobie Hawk
on the bench and plan to install an Airtronics FM receiver in it.  With
the pending Lovesong that makes 4 sailplanes - exactly the capacity of
a Vision radio.  That is a Vision can store setups for up to 4 aircraft
in it's memory.  This is the lowest of the top of the line computer radios
by the way.  The Futaba PCM9 and the JR PCM10 can store 6 and 7 aircraft
respectively.  So I placed an order with Sheldon's for one Vision SP and
two additional Airtronics FM receivers a week or so ago and they had to 
back order it.  As it turns out since I was working on the Thermal Charger
I was starting to get really frustrated with radios.

First I was going to put my old Futaba gold 5 channel AM radio in it.
The 5 channel didn't have V-tail coupling so I purchased a Dubro coupler.
As I stared at the setup tho I convinced myself that if I put the coupler
in I would have problems with the linkage if later I was to remove the coupler
because the cable shields would be too short.  Also I had three MRC micro
servos with Futaba AM plugs but I couldn't put the Dubro coupler on the 
micro servos.  I didn't really want to use bigger servos to save weight.
So I figured I'd use my Futaba Gold 7 channel FM radio.

So I stripped the Cirrus receiver out of one of my Berliner-Joyce's
and started putting it in the Thermal Charger when I discovered that the
V-tail coupling of the Futaba didn't work the way I thought.  That is
you really don't have general purpose V-Tail Coupling.  What you have
is strictly Rudder/Elevator coupling - which for all the world looks
like V-tail coupling if and only if you also have ailerons.  Since the
Thermal Charger doesn't have ailerons I would have to fly with the Rudder
on the left stick and the Elevator on the right stick with a 3 channel
plane.  I figure I can't and won't do that.  Of course I could change the
wires to the gimbals to make it a mode III transmitter but this transmitter
also is used for my Aeromaster.  Sooooooo

I decided I really have to get the Vision even if I have to not fly the
Thermal Charger till it arrives.  So last Thursday I started calling
Airtronics and everybody that they ship large quantities of Visions to.
I found lots of Vision SPs (including at Sheldon's but I needed one on channel
34.  I was just starting to give up and consider switching to another channel
so I started asking all the vendors what channels they had (and along the same
lines what channel extra FM receivers they had).  This was always disjoint.
Nobody seemed to have a set that matched and nobody had channel 34.  Plus
I didn't like the idea of sending my brand new this summer Sagitta receiver
in for a frequency change.  

But - I figured I'd give the ATRCs folks a call and maybe they might
have a Vision or perhaps an upgraded MD7SP on their bench that they
could put a channel 34 crystal in and ship to me.  I was hoping that they
had some experimental transmitter that they would sell me!

They had some Visions and some transmitter modules so they said if it was
OK with Airtronics they could ship me one.  By now I had been badgering 
everyone who would answer their phone and had called Airtronics several times
so after a couple quick calls they shipped one to me Next day air.  

So Friday it arrived at work and Al Ryder came over to check it out with
me.  Naturally they had put a transmitter module in a brand new Vision
and sent the system so the transmitter was on channel 34 but the receiver 
was on channel 54.  No problem the other receiver is suppose to arrive today.

Am I rambling - you bet - anyway I had a chance to play with it a bit so here
is some preliminary review stuff.  First there are several professional
reviews in several magazines so I'll only mention the stuff that they
don't.  

1.  It is cost effective.  The radio with 4 servos and a PCM receiver = 520
    Now add the cost of $65 each for 3 additional 6 channel FM receivers
    and you get a system cost of $715.  The total cost per plane = $178.75
    Now this assumes that you already have batteries and servos from your
    years of RCing so that your goal is to upgrade to 1991 and do to it
    with minimum cost and the minimum transmitters.

2.  The Vision SP (SailPlane) has more and better sailplane functions than
    any other existing radio - example:
    The left stick throttle function is the flaps.  You can set it up so that
    the top several notches of the ratchet have no effect (landing threshold)
    and as you pull the stick back the flaps come down and the ailerons
    go up (crow landing) and the aileron/rudder coupling goes to the highest
    rate and the differential on the ailerons reverses and some down elevator
    is feed in.
    
3.  The Vision understands (in a somewhat perverted way) V-tail coupling.
    In order to get the rudder on the right stick you still have to convert
    the transmitter to mode III but this is only one bit in the setup for
    this specific airplane.  To adjust the travel limits of the V-tail
    you have to refer to the rudder and elevator but they can be called
    left and right V-tail in the menus if I am willing to pay for a ROM
    upgrade (I'm not yet).
    
4.  One of my pet peeves with the Vision is it's lack of a clock.  I have been
    given the lecture from Airtronics and ATRCs folks that there was a trade
    off so keep the cost down.  But that argument doesn't carry much weight
    cause clocks and model airplanes go together - especially sailplanes.
    I told them they just sold me 500 dollars worth of radio and I'm suppose
    to then go purchase a $5.00 timer at K-Mart and glue it to the side!

5.  The new ergonomic engineering of the case one the Futaba and JR transmitters
    is outstanding.  Airtronics hasn't changed the shape of theirs yet.
    After talking to them - we can expect to see new cases within the next
    year.

6.  The Vision SP does not have failsafe.  The receiver is the same PCM
    receiver as the quantum so the default "hold last" works.  Frankly
    I can't think of a failsafe setting that I like except "hold last"
    for a sailplane.  But the Vision P (Pattern) also doesn't have failsafe
    and I can think of good failsafe settings for power planes.

7.  The Vision SP does not have any exponentials.  The Vision P does.
    I would like to also have exponential but not at the cost of only
    holding 3 planes and not 4 as the Vision P does.  If I get a ROM
    upgrade I can pick up to variable rate with threshold settings
    (almost exponential).

8.  There is no digital read out of battery voltage.  At first I thought
    that I would want this but I can live without it because:
    The battery warning implementation is pretty neat.  Probably not any 
    different than the other computer radios but since several professional
    reviewers have commented negatively on it I will elaborate.
    
    According to the specs the battery Audio Alarm will sound when ever
    the transmitter batteries drop below 9.59 volts.  The reviewers have
    all said that they would have preferred that this be higher.  I first
    agreed with them - but I tested it last night.  With a full charge 
    I turned on the transmitter with the antenna up and started a timer.
    The batteries are 700 mah and require 17 hours of charge.  It took
    1 hour 49 minutes before the audio warning went off.  It is real loud!
    Then I turned on my Sagitta and collapsed the antenna and stuck the 
    transmitter behind the furnace and started wiggling the sticks.
    18 minutes later the receiver got it's first glitch.  2 hours 7 minutes
    total on time for the transmitter.  I then extended the antenna
    and thought I would see how long it would run with the antenna up but
    after a couple more minutes I got tired of that and shut everything down.
    It is interesting to note that the little RF power output meter started
    out high in the silver region and went thru a yellow region and was
    exactly at the beginning of the red when the beeper went off.
    18 minutes later when the range test finally failed the needle had
    been right on Zero for a few minutes.  Although I would agree if the
    warning goes off you should land right away it is reassuring to know
    that you have time to make a nice safe landing and have time to go around
    one more time if your not setup right (assuming power or electric).
         
Well - perhaps more later but I can't think of anything at this time.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    I've been reading rc notes for several months and thought it time to
    reply with (hopefully) useful info. regarding the Airtronics Vision,
    I've been using one installed in a Bob Sealey "Pulsar", since June,
    5 servos (flaperons,rud,elev,spoilers). The ability to program two
    entirely different setups and then switch between them while in
    the air helps a lot in quickly optimizing your controls. Even so,
    I've reprogramed 4 times. Also the rock solid RF performance is
    appreciated when flying in known glitch-inducing conditions that
    have my two Futabas screaming for mercy.(Actually it's me doing
    the screaming). I haven't used the crow capability yet since I don't
    have separate flap surfaces, but my next project will have 4 servos
    in the wing so will be looking forward to how crow compares to drooped
    ailerons and spoilers.
      
       Also have just completed "Tremolina" (whirlwind), own design
    112" electric boosted sailplane. S3021 airfoil, flaps, speed
    controller, running 7 cells with Graupner Speed 600, 11-7 Scimitar
    folding prop, 3 t0 1 belt drive reduction. This set up worked very
    well on my previous "Top Quark", own design 125", flat bottom E-193.
       Been enjoying the notes a lot. Hope to contribute more in the
    future.
                 Terry
     
    
    
     

Preliminary Airtronics Vision SP Review - part 2
================================================

Summary

    The PCM receiver is compared with a vanilla FM PPM receiver
    in a rather unscientific test.
    
Details:

    Well my PCM receiver arrived the other day so I plugged it in
    last night for the first time.  At first it didn't work.  So I 
    tried every channel and both positions of the on/off switch.
    Then I figured that the new (uncharged I believe) receiver battery
    was dead - but it checked OK.  I was starting to get desperate
    when I realized that I hadn't changed the Transmitter setup to
    this plane - so it was running in PPM mode.  So I toggle a bit
    in the EEROM and success - the receiver works.  I have to mention
    that on some radios you might need to check the manual to do this
    but the menus on the Vision make it easy to find things and change
    them without any manual.  

    So first I tried some failsafe tests.  I turn off the transmitter
    and watch the servos - they stay put.  I try to turn one and it 
    won't let me - they are really locked on the last valid signal.
    
    Then I dig out two other channel 34 transmitters - one FM Airtronics
    and one AM Futaba.  All three transmitters have gold stickers.
    Now with the antennas collapsed on both Airtronics radios I turn
    them both on and...

    The PCM receiver listens to the Vision PCM transmitter and ignores
    the FM PPM transmitter as long as the Vision is closest to the Rx.
    As soon as I move the FM PPM Tx closer to the Vision it failsafes
    into "hold last".  OK - now I hook a servo to each of the 8 channels
    one at a time and make sure that (1) my V-Tail works as expected
    (it did) and (2) that I don't have one channel that failsafes to
    a fixed location (ala throttle off failsafe as in some receivers).
    Well no channel would failsafe into anything except hold last.  

    Al Ryder - you will be glad to know that the Aux channel knob on the
    right of the transmitter ran channel 3 on the 8 channel PCM receiver.
    This was not documented.
    
    Now I have to pause here to tell about a little anomaly that I found.
    While doing the previous test I had one channel that wasn't analogue
    from the transmitter (the landing gear channel).  I found a combination
    of switch throwing (not always repeatable) that would throw the
    Receiver into infinite failsafe.  That is with two switches - the landing
    gear switch on the transmitter and the power switch on the offending
    radio (the FM PPM Transmitter used to force a failsafe) I was able to
    cause the receiver to failsafe such that when I turned the offending
    transmitter off the receiver still would not come out of failsafe!
    I did this a couple of times and decided to hook another servo up and see
    if only the gear channel was effected.  Nope - both servos went to
    "hold last" and didn't come out after I turned the offending transmitter
    off.  But with two servos hooked up this only lasted about 5 seconds
    after the PPM was turned off before they started functioning again.
    
    Before we jump to any conclusions remember how unscientific this test
    was.  Both antennas were collapses.  The receiver battery is in an unknown
    state of charge.  I was doing this in my workshop with lots of metal
    around to reflect signals.  It is certainly possible that the receiver
    was working under the worst conditions before I forced it into failsafe.
    
    Anyway I took the two transmitters over to my Sagitta with a channel
    34 FM PPM receiver in it and turned them all on.  The PPM receiver worked
    just like the PCM in that it would receive the signal fine when the
    intended transmitter was closest to it.  As the two transmitters crossed
    such that the PPM was closer to the Receiver it would start to fail.
    Since it does not have failsafe "hold last" it would start jittering.
    The interesting thing is that the jitter was always centered around the
    intended setting from the PPM Transmitter.  That is I could leave the
    PCM set next to the Sagitta and walk across the room with the PPM Tx
    and the further I got away the more "Freight Train" noise the servos
    made BUT - the elevator and rudder setting corresponded to my stick
    positions.  That is instead of failsafe it still functioned.
    
    What does this prove - probably not a whole lot because the test is 
    too limited and not very scientific.  But I stand my my original theory
    that in some noise environments PCM will failsafe where PPM will just
    jitter a little and keep on working.

    Did I stop here - no way - I also have a Futaba AM channel 34 radio.
    Now the tests really become unscientific because the Futaba has a removable
    antenna.  Since the Airtronics antennas collapse into the cases they
    would always be putting out more energy than the Futaba without an antenna
    but when you screw the Futaba mast into the Tx case it stands much higher
    than the Airtronics antenna so the Futaba would have much more RF power
    out.  Anyway with the antenna off the Futaba radio the PCM receiver worked
    fine while both transmitters were turned on.  If I put the antenna on
    the AM Tx the PCM receiver goes into failsafe and it didn't matter where
    I placed the Transmitters.  There was always too much AM energy for the
    FM PCM Receiver to get a valid checksum.
    
    So I took these two transmitters over to the FM PPM Sagitta.  Similar
    results.  With the Antenna off the Futaba the FM PPM worked fine and with
    the Antenna on the Futaba the FM PPM went crazy.  Much worse I must add
    than the failure when listening to PCM noise.  The servos were all over
    the place.
    
Conclusion:

    If somebody turns on an FM Radio of the opposite variety you have
    (that is if your are flying PCM they turn on PPM or vice versa)
    you may survive with little yelling.
    
    If somebody turns on an AM Radio - you will crash.
    
    We can protect against adjacent channel interference with narrow band 
    dual conversion receivers.  We can and must protect against ourselves
    with good frequency control systems and impound areas.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    
    Kay, just a word of caution - I think you can damage your Futaba
    transmitter if you operate it with the antenna removed.
    Interesting tests - thanks for the info.  
    
    Bill

    FWIW- Most(dare I say all?) transmitters can be damaged by transmitting
    without an antenna or by poor antenna matching. CB'rs and Hams are
    familiar with SWL and the effect it has on transmission range.
    
    -j

    Re: last-2,
    
    Then how do I (we) rationalize range testing with the Tx antenna
    collapsed/disconnected??    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

According to Fred Marks in How to Get The Most From Your Radio
Control System, and also the building instructions from the Ace
S7 receiver, it will not harm the output transistors if you run
them for a *short time* without the antenna.  The key word here
is short time.

There is a matching circuit on the output of the final amp that
isolates the transmitter load.   This goes for when the antenna
is fully collapsed or when its removed. This is the same circuit
that allows you to get away with extending the antenna while the
TX is on; something that is commonly done at every field.

I'm surprised that you hams don't know about this, since this
circuit has been virtually standard since the mid-sixties. 
Despite my Futaba bashing, I believe their transmitter circuit
contains the same isolation components, at least I can see some
stuff that looks like that circuit on the board.  I've run my old
Futaba without the antenna for up to 5 minutes while tuning my S7
receiver.

I'll guarantee you this, if you are using your transmitter to
alingn your receiver, you will need to remove the antenna to
get a low enough signal to tune the first rf stage.  I put the
transmitter about 30 feet away in another room for this -- with
the antenna collapsed, you cannot get a low enough level signal
needed to do the tuning.

Gotta go back into the S7 this week.  Son of Quick Stick suffered
a terminal crash Saturday, and I lost about 6 inches off the end
of the antenna.  I'll have to install a new one and touch up the
cans in the process.

About a month ago I promised to write a report about a demo our local 
hobby shop gave with GRAUPNERs computer radios and Franz Weissgerbers 
electric planes. I'll try to write the computer stuff here and the 
electric stuff to the electric note.

GRAUPNER never manufactured radios themselves, but they do their own 
development. Radios are built by JR. This means that they can react 
to the special requirements of European RC guys and field conditions 
and have the power of one of the leading manufacturers too.

They claimed that during the last competetions their systems (mc-18) 
proved to be the least susceptable to interference in the very hard 
conditions at Phoenix. Can some of you US guys second that? They 
tried to explain it with two features (not very technical, more for 
the many laymen attending): 

1.) If their PCM receiver recognizes bad signals, most times only one 
bit is bad. This receiver does not only check the whole word length 
(all channels), but cuts the string into four pieces and only throws 
away the bad one(s). This lowers the chance to go fail safe on all 
channels (with the widely discussed disadvantages).

2.) When the receiver gets a real strong signal (near the TX), it 
reduces it's sensitivity and therefore gets less susceptable to 
interference. Can someone tell me why this helps? If it's far away, 
it has the good sensitivity and I feel that this is the situation 
more prone to interference.

I understand that these features are common in JR radios, too. Do you 
know if there are other methods on the market to improve failsafe 
abilities (error correction codes or something like that)? 


Most interesting was the part Franz Weissgerber held. He currently 
holds at least 4 world records for F3E planes and they showed an 
impressive video of his latest record flight (over 250 km/h with a 2m 
glider). His rados (mc-18, of course) did not show any of the common 
knobs and switches you usually have on computer radios. He says they 
only confuse in contest situations. He has the two sticks and two 
3-point switches - that's it. All the rest IS DONE BY THE SOFTWARE!!!
With the sticks he controls ailerons (mixed to flaps), elevator 
(mixed to flaps), rudder (in some planes only, mixed with ailerons) 
and break (crow landing: flaps down, ailerons up). He has one switch 
for the flaps (clean, start and landing position, mixed to elevator) 
and one for the motor (off-half-full power, stop watch coupled, 
mixed with flaps and elevator so that the flaps retract when you 
switch the motor on). In this case the flap servos run with reduced 
speed (is it true there is no other system on the market with this 
ability?). Reason: When he switches the motor off, the plane is 
usually a lot faster than 200 km/h. If the switch is still set for 
flaps down, and the flaps would deflect suddenly, he always had to 
grab the plastic bag... His demo was quite impressive. I'm one of 
those guys who thought they never needed a computer radio. Well, I'm 
thinking about it...

Is it possible to set up an easy to understand chart that compares 
the different PCM techniques (failsafe conditions) on the market with 
their pro's and con's? For example: What does a higher resolution 
(Futaba) buy me? Can I use it? What about the sample rate? Are there 
advanced error correction techniques available? Just trying to 
understand what goes on in the market... Would be happy if one of you 
computer radio experts could try something like this.

Regards,
         Hartmut

    Several of our club members went to Calif. this past weekend to
    attend the annual Pasadena Hobby and Trade Show. Their main purpose
    was to introduce Max Mills' line of sailplane kits to the industry,
    but while there they picked up several interesting tidbits.
    
    Airtronics had a prototype radio at the show which was a mind blower.
    The xmtr is a rounded, organically shaped thing with a built in
    scanner that tells you what freqs. are in use. Also, it has the
    capability to be programmed to any one of 15 !! freqs. in the 72
    Mhz band. After programming the xmtr. you plug into the programming
    port of the rcvr and program it to match. I don't believe there
    is any xtal swapping involved. It's "all in the software", but must
    be using some sort of phase-lock loop scheme to accomplish this.
    Actual specs are still closely guarded.
    
    It has all the usual programmable bells and whistles too, including
    a large LCD screen to present all the information, among which is
    a constant real-time read out of the control surface deflections
    in degrees.
    
    Don't know when this pup will hit the market and Airtronics is tight
    lipped at this point. Imagine the contest xmtr. impound problems
    and general field freq. control hassles that this thing will open
    up ! 
    
    Terry
    

    Again, this new Airtronics transmitter is brought to you by the dynamic
    duo at Control Systems Labs, Tom Mroz and Gene Engleglau, and to think
    I got to go slope flying with them last year.  Great guys!!!
    
    I would suspect you should see something on this new xmitter before the
    end of the year.  Also all programming entry will be made via the touch
    sensative LCD front panel.
    
    I had my first oppurtunity to fly my MD7SP/ATRCS (Vision lookalike)
    this weekend in my new F3b plane a Mueller KING.  Boy is it great. 
    Even to the point I was up in the air in a Thermal and wanted to
    increase the Camber to Up Elevator mixing, so I flipped down the front
    pannel, bounced down through the menus and increased the mixing from
    20% to 30%, flipped the panel back up and continued flying. (I did have
    someone watching the plane to make sure nothing happened) 
    
    Boy is this radio GREAT!!!!!!!, The plug is the same for any.  Sell all
    your stuff and get a programmable (computer controlled) radio and start
    buying flight packs.  
    
    Anyone had any yeas or nays on Sheldons $59.00 FM PPM receivers?
    

    Since we're heavily into Vision programming here, try this on for
    size:
    Over the last several weeks I've been programming and refining the
    programming on my Vision after installing it in a new 6 servo
    sailplane;rud, elev, one on each flap and aileron. I've got full
    crow, full camber control, launch presets, etc., but am not using
    flap and aileron mixing when doing normal aileron turns. 
    
    Non-Vision owners please bear with me now; what follows is essentially
    incomprehensible to normal human beings.
    
    I have camber control on the left side lever. Crow works off the
    left flap stick. Full up stick is neutral. Full down is max crow.
    The flight mode switch is on the top right rear of the xmtr. It's
    a 3 position toggle sw. Center is off, allowing flap stick to be
    active. Front position is launch, flaps and ailerons drooped slightly
    and flap stick disabled. Rear position is reflex, flaps and ailerons
    both raised above neutral. Servo travel and pushrod geometry
    allows about 10 degrees max up travel, more than enough.
    
    My problem is this :
    
    I can get as much droop on the flaps and ailerons as I want, from
    the flight mode switch launch position, but when I go to the reflex
    position only the ailerons go above neutral. The flaps stay put.
    When I manually position the flaps to their max reflex position
    then switch the radio on, they immediately return to neutral,
    so it's obvious they are being told to do that. I assume I've
    got a wrong or incompatible program value somewhere up, down, or
    sideways in the menues, but have tried everything I can think of
    and just can't get the flaps to respond to the reflex setting.
    Also, when setting the +/- flap travel under the surface adjustment
    menu, the flaps will not rise above neutral.This is an important
    clue, but the fact that the servo and linkage have the necessary
    travel available, and still won't do it is baffling.
    
    Terry
    

    
    Psuedo Vision owner.......
    
    I am having trouble programming my ATRCS (pre-vision).
    
    When I place the flight mode switch into launch mode, I droop the whole
    trailing (aileron and flap) edge but the problem is that it feeds in a
    little bit of down elevator.  If I take out the Up elevator to Camber
    mixing (Up elevator mixes in down flap and aileron) it works OK.  For
    the life of me I cant figure it out.  I will call ATRCS people today. 
    Anyone (Kay, Terry) have any ideas?  I will post my results.  I brought
    my Radio in today so I can follow along when I get them on the phone
    

    re .29
    
    Thanks for your suggestions Kay,
    I have freeze flap "yes" and have it set so that nothing happens
    until the flap stick has gone down about 1/4 of its total travel.
    
    I have camber disable function set to "no". Tried it both ways but
    prefer to zero the camber manually before pulling in crow on the
    flap stick.
    
    Actually I did discover the problem over the weekend. It has to
    do with the left side rotary lever. The instuctions tell you to
    center the lever in its travel range before setting positions in
    the intial setup. I didn't do that, I had the side lever pushed
    all the way to the rear, so that I would have max travel on it when
    pulling forward for the camber function implying that I also had
    it set "side lever rev. "yes". Anyway, the available rearward travel
    of the lever, after the trailing edge reaches neutral, dictates
    the amount of reflex available not only from the lever its self
    but also from the flight mode switch. When I reset the side lever
    so that it had some travel on both sides of neutral, then the flight
    mode switch was also able to both droop and reflex the flaps.
    The interaction isn't intuitively obvious (to me) and it's not spelled
    out in the manual.
    
    On the swamping problem, more experience has shown that it really
    wasn't selective to only the right aileron. all channels are affected
    to vatying degrees depending on a lot of variables that I won't
    bore you with. I'm pretty convinced that the servo leads are cross
    coupling as antennas some way, probably the aileron and flap leads
    especially, as they run parallel to each other, actually on top
    of each other, for about 6-8 in. from the flap servos inbd. The
    aileron servo leads are about 24 in. overall. Interestingly, I just
    read in the latest issue of RC Soaring Digest that Airtronics does
    not recommend "interference filters" in PCM systems that have servo
    leads shorter than 4 ft. I was planning to try ferrite beads, but
    am spared that task because yesterday we all got caught in a massive
    and sudden wind burst (lasted over 5 min.) and I was the only one
    in the air at the time. I immediately turned on base leg to get
    it down as quickly as possible, got turned on final ok, but after
    descending below 10 ft. realized I was still 20 ft. behind the chain
    link fence bordering the field. Not thinking, I gave it a little
    up to flair over the fence, and thats all she wrote. The wind caught
    the wing from underneath and blew the plane over backwards,
    cartwheeling and and ripping off one wing beyond practical repair,
    ditto both stabs. In the meantime everyone is scambling in the pits
    to grab planes most of which were blown against the fence with minor
    damage.
    
    So I won't get a chance to experiment further with that set up,
    but the fuselage came thru unscathed so new wings and stabs will
    be built in the future, It was a tip stalling fiend anyway so I
    don't feel too much loss.
    
    Meantime I've got the Vision installed in the Rieti and will fly
    that at the SWR. The Vision gives it almost as much capability,
    except full crow, since I it only has one aileron servo.
    
    Re .30 
    
    Mark, I've noticed that same elevator interaction but never got
    around to worrying about it before solving the reflex problem.
    Tonight I'll be finalizing the set up on the Rieti and will experiment
    to see if I can figure it out too. Will let you know what I discover
    if anything.
    
    Terry
    

    Terry, OK let me know how you make out.  I talked with Gene at CSL (Oh
    yeh the number that someone posted for CSL was really for Bob Martin
    RC, CSL starts with a 408 area code)
    
    Anyway Gene didnt realy have a finger on it.   He said to try to remove
    the Uelev > Camb and put it back in with Elev > Camb and see what that
    does. 
    
    I am going to try to go flying right after work.  Shoot with the SWR
    comming up I need to do some more flying but it will probably be too
    windy.  I am also clamering to get stuff ready for the Big Auction in
    Denver on Feb 3rd.  
    
    I also need to get some backup servos wired up and ready and my 1200
    mah battery installed in place of the 500 mah.
    
    Let me know how you make out trying to remove the down elev in launch
    mode.
    
    See you at the SWR
    
    Mark Antry
    
    ps.  I talked with Tommy Thompson on the phone while he was up here.
    

    Mark,
    
    I spent 3 hours last night programming and deprogramming, and made
    a slight, very slight amount of progress. Concerning your (our)
    down elev in launch problem, I noticed it was there under virtually
    all conditions all the while I was attacking my own flap travel
    problem. The elev. movement on my system seems to minimize at a
    few percent of total elev. travel and moves that amount whenever
    the flap stick, side lever, or flight mode sw. are moved.
    
    What I'm going to do tonight is zero everything out in that particular
    set up, return TVs' to 66%, go back just like it was out of the
    box.
     
    My flap travel problem is taking a slightly different form now that
    I have the Vision installed in a new plane. Its latest version is
    to give me about 10 degrees of flap, both sides of neutral, but
    only when the flap stick is in the center of its movement range.
    As soon as the stick is pushed toward full up or down positions,
    the flaps don't follow the stick position.
    
    In desperation before giving up last night, I got out my 6 chan.
    radio and hooked up the rcvr. to the servos from the Vision.
    Then using the 6 chan. xmtr. I was able to get a full range of flap
    motion to the mechanical limits of the setup. The flap servo is
    mounted upside down in the tray, the tray has to be pulled out to
    mechanically adjust the linkage, but at least now I'm sure that
    it will do what I expect from it. So now it's back to struggling
    with the programming. Wouldn't it be ironic if I show up at the
    contest with my old 3 chan. Graupner Cirrus controlled with a Cox
    Cadet, with dry cells of course ! Hang in there.
    
    Terry
    

>    yeh the number that someone posted for CSL was really for Bob Martin
>    RC, CSL starts with a 408 area code)

You're absolutely correct - I goofed.  But like all R/Cers Bob Martin
is a real nice guy to talk to :-)

CSL (the ATRCS folks) = (408)946-4142

and Bob Martin R/C    = (602)855-6900

and Airtronics        = (714)830-8769

Thanks for catching that - I will delete the note with the
incorrect phone number.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Well Terry after getting all my goodies together for the Denver RC
    auction I drug the King up on the bench to look at the mixing and some
    other stuff.  
    
    I first pulled the 500 mah battery and the 3-4 oz of lead in the nose
    out and replaced it with my 1200 mah battery and guess what the CG was
    after that.  Perfect it was right were I had it.  It is nice to take
    out that lead and replace it with usefull battery.
    
    I then started looking into the mixing problem.  I FOUND IT!!!!!!!!!
    
    There are 3 Elevator mixing options:
    	CAMB -> ELEV
    	FLAP -> ELEV
    	GEAR -> ELEV
    
    The Flap to Elevator I had set to a negative number because when I
    bring in crow to land using the flap stick I want some down elevator to
    compensate.
    
    I had Camb to Elev set to a negative number for reasons I dont know.  I
    talked with Gene from CSL and he said that this is to trim the plane
    whenever changes are made to the airfoil and that you should want a
    very little amount of Down Elevator when you reflex the wing and a very
    little amount of up when you increase the camber.  So I made this
    number positive (about 15%) and presto.  Put the flight mode switch in
    Launch and it gives a minute amount of up elevator which should help. 
    I also noticed that you can have both camber and flap on launch.  So
    that the ailerons are drooped a little and the flaps are drooped even
    more.  This may help keep the wing from tip stalling in launch.  To do
    this set the Camber launch to what you want the ailerons to be, the
    flap will also move with the ailerons and then when that is set go to
    flap launch and dial in the additional flap that you wish.
    
    Alright, Now I need to get flying the thing before the SWR, I hope to
    go tonight after work, but they are talking snow on the radio.
    
    Mark Antry
    

    Mark,
    
    Glad to hear you got all your mixing problems worked out.
    I too finally got things set up properly last night. First,
    I used my 6 chan.radio, unmixed, and got all surfaces moving like
    I wanted. Then I installed the Vision rcvr. and returned all program
    settings to out-of-the-box conditions. Then turned everything on
    and...voila !.. everything worked almost like I wanted. I'm not
    using camber control at all, have full flap travel from the stick,
    full up stick is neutral flap, then I run the flap trim lever full
    up to give me reflex. The flight mode switch is set to give me some
    down flap for launch with a little up elev. dialed in. The reflex
    position of the switch is inactive. Ailerons and rudder are coupled
    at 70% and 50% at the moment, this may change as I experiment.
    
    I'm also using a 1200 mil pack. It's flyable without additional
    weight, but I put in 1.5 oz. because it seemed a little squirrly
    without it. Tonight I'm building new lighter weight stabs so may
    be able to pull the lead back out. The stock stabs are pretty fragile
    and after ripping out twice on hard landings are also pretty full
    of epoxy and heavy.
    
    Weather here looks unpromising until the weekend so maybe I'll get
    a day or two of testing before leaving for Tucson next wed.
    When I get there I'm going to look up a flying field and get some
    more practice before the contest.
    
    Terry
    

Well after many many notes about Airtronics and Futaba I just
got a Futaba 9VAP from America's Hobby Center.

I thought I should share the reasons behind my decision.

There are 4 generally available top of the line programmable radios 
to choose from.

1. ACE forgot what they call theirs.
2. JR PCM-10
3. Airtronics Vision
4. Futaba 9VAP

I didn't choose ACE because they are AM and low tech cases and I have
no other ACE equipment (servos or receivers).

I didn't choose JR because I only have one JR receiver and more
JR receivers and Servos cost a lot more than equivalent Futaba or
Airtronics equipment.

So to me the choice was between Airtronics and Futaba.

I choose Futaba in this case because

1.  It stores info for 6 airplanes (the Vision P only does 3)
2.  It has a built in clock
3.  It has a built in tach
4.  I already have 3 Futaba compatible receivers (one Cirrus
    and one Futaba) and lots of servos.

My major concern was Futaba's marketing approach to the AMA
certification program.  From several phone conversations
with Futaba, Airtronics, and the AMA and from spending some
time observing AMA frequency testing in action I am convinced 
the top of the line Futaba systems are 1991 systems.

One more thing I must add.  I intend to use this radio for power
planes.  If I didn't already have a Vision SP I would want one
real bad.  For sailplane applications I think Airtronics is ahead
and if you can get one of the old MD7SPs with the ATRCS mod
you have a built in clock also.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Re: .-1, Kay,
    
    I should say that all the legwork/research you've done confirms what I
    _hoped_ and truly felt was the case and I feel the better for all your
    work to confirm it.  I've believed all along that the AMA certification
    issue was largely one of politics.  Look at the other reputable
    manufacturers/distributors who have yet to be AMA certified, e.g. ACE, 
    the Korean Challenger 720/World Engines Expert and more, all of whom
    advertise 1991 radios with dual conversion receiver systems.  I can't
    believe all of these folks are trying to pull something.
    
    When Cliff Weirick visited my shop a few weeks ago, I asked him some
    pointed questions regarding the controversy but he took a hard company
    line and wouldn't comment on anyone elses equipment...all he'd say was
    that Airtronics gear meets or exceeds FCC and AMA specs.
    
    If Futaba is hedging their bets in order to clear their inventory of
    systems that will _not_ be useable in 1991, I find this distasteful, to
    say the least, and can't rationalize such behavior on their (or
    anyone's) part, however, that remains to be proven.
    
    Like you, I have a shop full of Futaba radios, servos, chargers and
    accessories of all sorts and my luck with their radios is unblemished
    over 10-years and 3-generations of radios.  That was reason enough for
    me to want to stay with Futaba and my new 7UAP has continued the
    'tradition' into the 4th-generation of their radios I've owned...I'm
    tickled to death with it and only regret that I reneged a bit and did
    _not_ get the 9VAP while I had the chance to get it REAL cheap. 
    
    I'm confident you'll enjoy yer' new radio and get lots of good service
    from it.  

      |     
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

>    Like you, I have a shop full of Futaba radios, servos, chargers and
>    accessories of all sorts and my luck with their radios is unblemished
>    over 10-years and 3-generations of radios.  That was reason enough for

Speaking of chargers - I found my first incompatibility last night.
The charger for the 9VAP Transmitter uses a 5 pin DIN style connector.

Also the 9 channel receiver is interesting in that it only has
channel 1-8 plus battery.  You have to buy (or build) an adapter
to use the 9th channel.  As most of you already know the battery
connector can actually be plugged into any hole in most (do not
try this unless you are sure and have a reason to do so) R/C receivers.
In the case if the 9 channel they bring all 3 wires from the battery
connector and use the moral equivalent of a Y connector to split the
battery and 9 channel.

Probably not to clear but the bottom line is the unused pin on the battery
position is actually the 9 channel signal.

On a more positive note I found a feature that is modestly interesting.
If you don't touch the sticks for 30 minutes the transmitter turns itself
off.  So if you forget your transmitter on it won't kill the battery.

Speaking of America's Hobby Center.  On the phone they told me $607.20
for the COD and to get either a money order or cash.  My wife couldn't
get that much cash from the DCU so she got a money order.  When UPS
showed up with the box they wouldn't take the money order for two
reasons.  (1) They would only take a certified check or cash and (2)
It had to be for the exact amount and the bill was $606.20 so I had
a dollar too much.

So I drove to DCU and cashed the money order and had to catch the
UPS truck in route.

It's interesting that DCU has a limit to the amount of cash they
will give you yet you can cash the money order there.

A little off the subject but in case anybody is interested.  I have only
purchases one item (the above radio) from America's Hobby Center but
the price was right.  For what it is worth here are some of their WRAM
show sale prices that are suppose to be good for 14 days after the show.
The show was Feb 24th and 25th so I interpret this to mean the prices
will be good until Sunday the 11th of March 1990.

Airtronics Vision VS8P 8 channel PCM ---------------- $ 489.95
Airtronics Vanguard 6 channel PCM ------------------- $ 214.95
Airtronics Vanguard 6 channel FM  ------------------- $ 154.95
Airtronics Vanguard 4 channel FM  ------------------- $ 114.95

Futaba 9VHP 9 channel PCM (Helo)--------------------- $ 709.95
Futaba 9VAP 9 channel PCM --------------------------- $ 594.95
Futaba 7AUP 7 channel PCM --------------------------- $ 345.00
Futaba 7AUF 7 channel FM ---------------------------- $ 250.00
Futaba Conquest 6NFK 6 channel FM ------------------- $ 164.95
Futaba Conquest 4NBF 4 channel FM ------------------- $ 119.95

OS FS-120 Surpass with pump ------------------------- $ 289.95
OS FS-91 Surpass ------------------------------------ $ 219.95
OS FS-70 Surpass ------------------------------------ $ 184.95
OS FS-48 Surpass ------------------------------------ $ 149.95

YS-Futaba 120SF ------------------------------------- $ 302.95

etc...

It's not listed in their flyer but I know they are selling
JR PCM-10s for $650 and someone we all know just ordered one.
I won't say his name but he flys a BIG P47 with the devil
on the cowl.

America's Hobby Center, Inc.
146 West 22nd Street
New York, N.Y. 10011

Phone (212)675-8922

Wow - was I humbled last night.
I read (attempted to anyhow) the rest of the Futaba 9VAP manual.

I guess you can do just about anything in the world
regarding mixing.  If anybody fully understands their
concept of Xon and Yon please elaborate.

I admit I was tired when I read it but after a first pass it
seems like they have embraced the UNIX concept of pipes and
if you Xon some mix that says that the input will come from
whatever pipe is Yon'ed.

Example (theirs)

3 mixing circuits are required to mix
Aileron to Elevator AND rudder 
and
Elevator to Rudder as follows

MX1 Ail->Elv
MX2 Elv->Rud
MX3 Ail->Rud

Which gives a second display of
              Ail->Elv
              Elv->Rud
              Ail->Rud

OK then they say you can save 1 mixing circuit when
Xon and Yon functions are used.

MX1 Ail->Elv
MX2 Elv->Rud

While your programming the MX1 slave position to Elv hit the Yon key.
While your programming the MX2 master position to Elv hit the Xon key.

Which gives a second display of
              Ail->Elv->
            ->Elv->Rud

Interesting hey!

So is their any Xon Xoff, Yon Yoff experts out there that can
elaborate on this?

=============================================================================
I also found that when I changed from PCM to FM that it really didn't change
the RF out until I cycled power.

The model name wouldn't change even tho the owner did until I first
selected a model - so for an instant in time I actually had 7 models
programmed in (6 defaults plus one working).  Of course if you ever
access any of the other 6 (the defaults) you will loose the 7th model
forever and you will never see over 6 models again (initialization
anomaly).  Who cares - well I did cause I must have typed in the model
name a half dozen times before I could make it sticky.

For you chip chasers I took the back off and poked around.  Unfortunately
there are two circuit boards and I didn't dare disassemble any further to
get a look at the bottom circuit board.  I forgot the list I made at home
so I will post it later but there were definitely some large chips on the
bottom (hidden) circuit board.  The RF shielding is done not as extensive
as Airtronics (The back cover is chrome plated plastic - does that stuff
conduct?) and the RF module removes easier than Airtronics.  The battery
is a 500mah pack whereas the Airtronics Vision is a 900mah pack.  But it
is super easy to get at and if there are any diodes in the circuit it wouldn't
matter because it is too easy to pop the back off and get directly at the
battery - whereas I had to short out a diode on my Vision in order to
use it on my Cycler.

I have been collecting Computer radio manuals in my research and as soon
as I get a hold of Kevin's I will make copies of them available to everyone.
The interesting thing about reading the 9VAP manual is it gave me some great
ideas of things I want to try in the Vision!

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Well Kay,
    
    
    My LOW end 5UAP 1024 comes with the HIGH end R?129DP (same as your
    radio) RX. So, Now I also feel ok that mine is 1991 safe.......
    
    
    							Dave
    

    Dave, Kay,
    
    Re: .-1, all three Futaba PCM's, the 5, 7 and 9 channel models come
    with the same 129DP receiver.    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

I need a better radio this year but have been putting it off due to maximizing 
the features I want. This comment lets me get a 5 channel PCM now (which is all 
I really need at the moment) with the understanding that it will be the same 
flight pack for my wishlist PCM 9ch!

Thanks for the info Al!

Chip chasers:

IC1 = Flatpack with 19x13x19x13 pins.
      It has an 8MHz xtal glued to the top so I
      can't read the markings.  It does have a stick
      on label tho so I would guess it is either a ROM
      or a combination ROM/CPU.

IC2 = NEC Japan
      D4364G-15L
      8749MYO11
      28 pin (14 each side) flat pack

IC3 = NEC Japan
      D7004C
	  8814E3001

But as I said I couldn't get at the bottom circuit board and there
were some large chips on it.

================================================================================

I moved a Futaba FM receiver into my Thermal Charger last night
and it was much easier to set up the V-Tail with the Futaba 9VAP than
it was with the Airtronics Vision.  Mostly because of the Vision's
concept of flap stick trim.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

extracted from the very long Note 1047.7  on Airtronics incompatibilities 
    
    1.  Airtronics makes four 1991 listed receivers:
        
                        6 channel     8 channel
        
            FM/PPM        92765         92785
        
            FM/PCM        92965         92985
    
        The FM/PPM receivers are compatible with all of the transmitters
        considered (Vision, Quantum, Spectra, Module, and Vanguard).
        
        However, the 6 channel PCM receiver is compatible *only* with the
        Vanguard transmitter and conversely.  So the Vanguard PCM receiver
        cannot be controlled by the fancy Vision transmitter or the
        upgraded MD7 transmitter.  This was a surprise.   Evidently they
        blew it on the protocol with the six channel protocol being
        different from the eight channel protocol instead of being an eight
        or ten channel protocol with null slots.  This was especially
        surprising in that the eight channel came first; the six channel
        product was designed later. 
            
        So a second receiver for the Vision can be an FM receiver or a
        second eight channel Vision receiver, it cannot be one from a
        relatively inexpensive PCM system.  So much for compatibility.

    Kay, with your new 9AVP what servos did you get? The 5101,9101 or
    the 9201?
    
    
    Tom
    
    
    P.S. Thinking of buying a 9AVP for pattern
    
    
    

>    Kay, with your new 9AVP what servos did you get? The 5101,9101 or
>    the 9201?

5101s and they seem real nice.  One click of trim causes a very small
yet positive movement.

In response to Al's note about Airtronics PCM compatibility
the Spectrum, Quantum and Vision all share the same PCM receiver.
Only the inexpensive Vanguard PCM is a maverick.
If fact if they do what they said they would at the WRAM show
the future new series of Airtronics will all be compatible with
the Spectrum, Quantum and Vision.  

It looks to me like they had a third party design the Vanguard for
them.  I wouldn't worry about support or anything but you can't
expect to purchase a bunch of them to run with a new computer radio.

But - since Futaba wants $189 (Tower price) for a 9 channel receiver
I think most of the computer radio receivers will continue to be
the $60 dollar vanilla FM variety.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################
    

Re: .48

>But - since Futaba wants $189 (Tower price) for a 9 channel receiver
>I think most of the computer radio receivers will continue to be
>the $60 dollar vanilla FM variety.

But didn't Al report that this is the same Rx as the 5 & 7 channel PCM models? 
I thought that the 5ch price was in the $200 range in the last tower flyer (or 
was that a 6ch and a different Rx) Don't ya like extra servos?? ;^)

I've been very confused WRT radios recently...

Jim (but I'm feeling MUCH better now ;^)

>         <<< Note 737.43 by PNO::CASEYA "THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8)" >>>
>                            -< that's a roger..... >-
>
>    Dave, Kay,
>    
>    Re: .-1, all three Futaba PCM's, the 5, 7 and 9 channel models come
>    with the same 129DP receiver.    
>
>      |
>      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
>    |_|_|      ( >o
>      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

I was just puzzled by Jim Reith's question about receivers and tried
to look up the Futaba receivers in a Tower flyer.  Unfortunately
it is only a flyer and doesn't list all receivers.

But the 129DP is what comes with the 5UAP, 7UAP, and 9VAP just
as Al said.

But be warned - Futaba is not as compatible as that - they still are
selling 8 channel PCMs which are not the 1024 bit resolution (they are 512)
and the 8 channel PCM receiver (R118GP) is not compatible with the 1024s.
Nor is the 5 channel PCM receiver (R105IP) - I don't know what transmitter
that came with.  If you bought Futaba state of the art PCM systems two
years ago you cannot use the PCM receivers with the new 1024 system.

Soooooooooo

The price anomaly is standard operating procedure for Futaba.  When my
Gold Futaba was new it was always cheaper to purchase a $99.00 cheap
system just to get a receiver than it was to purchase a receiver, battery,
power harness, and heaven forbid - servos.  Lots of folks have extra
transmitters from the $99 deals for this reason.

I don't recall EVER seeing a sale on flight packs from ANY vendor.

But it is not quite as bad as you think.  If the Futaba 129DP receiver
cost $189 and the 5UAP transmitter cost $200 you would purchase the $11
transmitter with 4 servos!  But the 5UAP actually cost $250 (from AMC 
last week).  So the cost of a Transmitter and battery and switch harness
and 4 each 148 servos is $61 if you are going to buy a 129DP anyway.

The reality is if you are hoping into the computer radio business
because you're being forced to re-evaluate your position because of 1991
then you probably have a basement full of servos and batteries and
power harnesses.  

I asked Vendors before (Sheldon's and Tower and Airtronics) why
they don't go big time into selling flight packs.  The bottom line
is with all the frequencies (add soon the odd numbered ones) they
have too much of an inventory problem to attempt to make flight
packs available at a reasonable rate.  If our technology was a little
more advance so that Xtal swapping worked reliably or if they
had a simple test procedure to verify correct receiver tuning or
if the programmable frequency receivers were common... then
we might finally see bargains on flight packs.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    The Tower ad on page 42 of the February 1991 issue of MAN has these
    items listed under Airtronics:

    MA1006**  IN600A 6Ch FM/4 102 NiCd ...... 599.95    349.99
    MA1007**  IN600A 6Ch PCM/4 102 NiCd ..... 649.95    379.99

    I haven't yet seen tiddly info on the Infinity, but if one wanted to
    buy a pig-in-a-poke, here it is (for sale, but perhaps not yet for 
    delivery).


    So the price will be below the current x347 price, albeit for 6
    channels, not 7 and with frequency agility.  Let us pray that they
    haven't screwed it up the way they did on the Vision.

    I've been doing some more thinking about the x347 since reading
    Aberle's article in the January 1991 FM.

    We know it is single conversion.  I was told by JRA that it was very
    narrow band, and I take that at face value.  

    Aberle states that "it exhibits no 2IM problems", and goes on to cite
    some 23 channel separation tests he and Myers ran.  Horse manure!  If
    the IF is not 455, then 23 (= 22.75 rounded up) is not the magic
    number.  There is nothing much special about 455 except that there are
    commercial components well established on the market for that IF
    frequency.  The X347 could quite easily use a different IF frequency;
    it is not a big deal.  A different IF would simply move the potential
    interference sources to combinations of other frequencies.  It may be
    that the TV4/RC20 problem for the X347 has simply moved to TV5/RCxx or
    some other TV channel.

    I'm not saying that what JR (or Hobby Dynamics) has done is bad.  After
    all, an IF over a MHz would help the image rejection problem, and a
    bandwidth approaching the application requirement would always be
    helpful.  If the IF is high enough, filtering in the RF stage can cut
    down the external 2IM threat as well as the image.  I'm not close
    enough to circuit design to know, but I would guess that the common
    10.7 MHz IF frequency would be sufficient. 

    I'm just criticizing Aberle's tests and conclusions.  He also tested
    the RC50 X347 with a close by RC27 since "single-conversion .... prone
    to interference from signals exactly 23 channels away", a test
    recommended by Steiner.  That's mixing a single foreign transmission
    with one's own signal --- not the same as mixing two foreign signals,
    neither of which has the desired modulation --- and it doesn't apply if
    the IF is not 455.  Aberle's basic problem is that he equates single
    conversion with the 455 IF, and JR isn't giving him any guidance.

    I guess I'm just frustrated; until I know the IF and the bandwidth, I
    cannot understand the potential interference threat.  I wish that the
    marketing smoke screen were not an emotional issue with me.  Otherwise
    I like the X347 a lot.

>    I guess I'm just frustrated; until I know the IF and the bandwidth, I
>    cannot understand the potential interference threat.  I wish that the
>    marketing smoke screen were not an emotional issue with me.  Otherwise
>    I like the X347 a lot.

I'm sure we're talking about JR's ABC&W receivers but...
JR also makes real Dual Conversion receivers.
R U sure that they are not shipping real Dual Conversion Receivers with
the X347.  I'd be real surprised if they are not.

About the Infinity radio from Airtronics.
I saw the add myself in the last tower flyer.
It was my understanding that the new Infinity was to be
an entire family of products and I suspect that the
one advertised is not the one that will give you frequency synthesis.
Too cheap and too quick.  But I must add that is shear speculation
on my part - there was nothing written about functionality in the 
brief add and I have not seen any reviews.

Note also that Airtronics was offering two new receivers in the tower
flyer.  One Dual conversion 4 channel micro receiver (Cheaper than
RCD) and also a new 7 channel Dual conversion (the one they are shipping
with their new 7 channel Vanguard) that is also competitive with RCD.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    re. .51  ..."let us pray they haven't screwed it up the way they
    did on the Vision." 
    Al, what does this statement mean? I'm happy with my Vision.
    Am I missing something? 
    Amongst competition oriented glider types, Visions have about a
    5 to 1 popularity.
    
    I'd be surprised if the Infinity is available before Jun-Jul.
    The freq. synthesis model is supposed to be an 8-9 channel.
    Probably even later delivery on it.
    
    Terry

re Note 737.53    by Kay Fisher about JR's ABC&W receivers 

>> sure that they are not shipping real Dual Conversion Receivers 
>> with the X347.  I'd be real surprised if they are not.

    They are not.  I believe I was told this explicitly by the tech at JRA,
    and Aberle said it outright in his article.

    What they are shipping with the X-347 is a level of marketing BS that
    would make Futaba envious.  The transmitter seems great, and the owners
    love it.  It is just that the marketing guys are fouling the air with
    their position on the receiver.  I'm beginning to think the techies
    screwed up the receiver and the marketing guys are waving hands.  The
    Spartan specifications printed by JR in their X347 manual ("Selectivity
    8 KHz/50 dB") seem to barely meet the AMA guidelines of 60 dB at +- 8.5
    KHz.  In comparison, the published Airtronics specification for the
    92765 and 92785 receivers is "better than -69 dB @ +/- 8.5 KHz."  We
    don't know the JR selectivity at 8.5 KHz (It will be better than -50
    dB.), but a difference of 19 dB is almost a factor of one hundred in
    power.  Note that your surprise at my statement indicates that the
    marketing guys are succeeding at covering up the deficiency.

    Incidentally, the same spec sheets indicate that the Airtronics
    receiver is more sensitive than the JR (although I don't think I care). 
    I do care about image rejection and 3d order intercept; the Airtronics
    numbers are good; JR doesn't mention theirs.  On the other hand, the
    Airtronics receiver (2.0 oz) is heavier than the JR (1.55 oz).

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    I called Airtronics this evening and asked them to send me the manual(s) 
    on the advertised PCM and FM Infinity models.  Also the spec sheet on
    the new 92745 receiver.  That receiver will be on my next Tower order.

re Note 737.54 by Terry Tombaugh on my Vision sniping

>>  I'm happy with my Vision.  Am I missing something? 
>>  Amongst competition oriented glider types, Visions [are very popular.]

    You are almost certainly justified in liking the Vision; from what I
    know of you, the match might be perfect.  Considered in isolation
    exclusively for glider guiding, the Vision is very, very nice.  But I
    did a lot of homework when I was planning to invest in the Vision, and
    I became disillusioned. The reasons, detailed in 1047.7, are: 

    1	Incompatibility with the 6 channel PCM receiver (92965).  I wanted
        to invest in a compatible family, not a fortune in replicated
        Visions or the very expensive receivers.  The  Vision receiver now
        sells for $120 in today's Tower Talk; it used to be much more if I
        remember correctly.  For just $70 more than that I can buy the VG4R
        system and get the (needlessly incompatible) 6 channel PCM receiver
        (also with FAILSAFE)  plus full NiCds, a secondary transmitter, a
        harness, a charger, and three ordinary servos.  More important, the
        circumstances of the incompatibility made me distrust what they
        might screw up next; their product planning seems happenstance.

    2	Omission of transmitter support for FAILSAFE (It's in the receiver, 
    	but they didn't get that feature debugged in the transmitter
    	microcode in time to meet their schedule.  Sounds familiar. :-) )

    3	I wanted a multipurpose system, not exclusively a glider system.
    	In particular, I wanted both a throttle channel and a flap channel.
    	My primary pleasure is glider guiding, but it isn't exclusive.

I'd like to hear your opinion on the JR X-347.   The transmitter seems to
be very, very nice, and the servo-check-without-RF feature is desirable. 
Airtronics used to have that feature in a product, but features seem to
come and go willy nilly.

Alton the so-hard-to-please-it-isn't-worth-it product planner/manager

    Al, 	
    	One comment on the Airtronics Infinity pricing vs the X347:  The
    102 servos are not even close to the JR517's that come standard with
    the X347.  The 517's are their better quality Ball Bearing output
    servos.  Jr's lower priced systems come with 507's that are probably
    equivalent to the Airtronics 102's.  I am not very happy with the
    102's.  They have too much deadband to be precise in a performance
    plane, and the output will quickly develop slop without a better
    bearing.  This is probably worth at least a $40 difference in price
    assuming you would even want to use the 102's.  
    	I also share the common concern expressed here about the JR
    Receiver that comes with the 347.  It is NOT dual conversion and I
    would feel better if it was.  I'll try to check the crystal frequency
    to determine what IF they're using.  I have two JR PCM receivers but I
    have not flown either one yet.  I was sold on the TX features and the
    very attractive price.  I also bought an RCD receiver with Airtronics
    connectors to use with my X347 TX.  I have installed it in my SS40 and
    it works fine on the bench.  I hope to fly it this weekend after a
    careful range check.  If it works well, I will be getting another one.
    I have decided against upgrading my old Airtronics equipment.  I will
    probably sell it instead and use the RCD receivers with my old servos
    and my X347 TX.  I've gotten a solid five years of service out of my
    older Airtronics gear.
    
    Charlie
    

    Al,
     I can agree with your point about the Vision being primarily a
    glider radio. 
    There is a set up mode however, that lets you use the left side
    lever as a flap control, which then frees up the left stick for
    other purposes, even a throttle, gasp ! Although the original intent
    was to use the left stick for flaps and the side lever for t.e.
    camber changing, i.e. moving both flaps and ailerons together, in
    the same direction.
    I've heard about the rcvr. incompatiblity but have muddled through
    without experiencing it. I have a 6 ch. FM Airtronics rcvr. that
    I bought as a backup to the Vision rcvr. and also have a 6 ch. Vanguard
    PCM rcvr. Can't recall their model numbers, but both work fine with
    the Vision. Of course, forgetting to change the xmtr. mode from
    PCM to PPM or vice/versa often has me indignately bellowing ,"Whats
    going on here ?" when first switching on after a swap.
    Don't know anything about the X347 other than what I read here.
    The HTAers seem to have found gainful employment programming and
    cross-programming them.
    
    In my latest wings, I'm using those new Airtronics side mount servos
    for aileron control. 92141's I think is the number. They're noticeably
    tighter and smoother than 102s but aren't all that thin. I wound
    up not using the side mount ears, as I devised a screwless retaining
    system.
    
    Terry

>   <<< Note 737.58 by ELMAGO::TTOMBAUGH "20/20 Vision&walkin'round blind" >>>
>                   -< How about a heated xmtr ? I need one. >-
...
>    without experiencing it. I have a 6 ch. FM Airtronics rcvr. that
>    I bought as a backup to the Vision rcvr. and also have a 6 ch. Vanguard
>    PCM rcvr. Can't recall their model numbers, but both work fine with
>    the Vision.

Argggggg - Terry, Airtronics has been telling us they are incompatible.
A guy on the use net claims that the Futaba non-1024 PCM receiver works
with the 1024 transmitters also.  

I really wonder just what is incompatible with them.  Maybe the vanguard
has built in throttle fail safe and in a Vision context it might (would)
be going to some other unexpected servo?

P.S.  I tried to run an electric off the vision using the flap stick as
      a throttle.  Drove me nuts.  It won't allow you to trim only the
      low end (like normal throttle trims).  I like the Vision P for power
      but with only storage for 3 planes - for get it.

P.S.S.  I would dearly love to send my Vision off to someplace and have
        a clock/timer installed to the unused snap roll button.  I've been
        on the look out for a really small LCD timer that I could hack up
        and install (someplace) on the Vision - but haven't found just the
        right unit yet.  I would just like stop/start on one button (the
        unused snap roll button) and reset on some other button.  Yes - I
        wish now I had purchased a MD7SP and gotten the ATRCS mod.  If the
        new Infinity doesn't have a build in clock I'm going to scream.
        ACE is the only vendor that is correctly supporting the build in 
        clock timer - but you have to believe in AM modulation to support 
        ACE today.
 
Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Kay,
    
    From the several X-347 demos I've recieved, I've been shown a count up
    and count down timer with beeps at 30, 20, and count down from 10
    seconds. If I remember Eric's demo, you could program it onto ANY
    switch on the case. It's nice to be able to move it around and tie it
    in to other things (like towline release ;^)

    Kay,
    I never use the failsafe function on the Vanguard, so if that's
    the source of the incompatibility, I'd never notice it. 
    If there is an RF incompatibility, which I doubt, it must be pretty
    subtle. I have both units , mixed and matched, at the limits of
    visibility all the time and nary a glitch.
    I keep a Lorus timer hung around my neck at all times (remove
    when bathing ;^) ) and find it handier than a xmtr mounted timer.
    
    Terry

    The FM compatibility is expected; the use of the Vanguard PCM receiver
    with the Vision is the surprise; we had been told we couldn't.  It
    wasn't an RF matter; it was supposed to be a PCM encoding difference.

    If they were trying to get me to buy expensive receivers from them,
    they failed;  they instead got me interested in switching to JR.

>>  around my neck at all times (remove when bathing ;^) 

    It is possible for both of these phrases to be true.         :-)


Alton     who finds this dialog valuable

Coupla comments:  I tried ordering the Vanguard or the new VG7
receiver from Tower just a couple of days ago, and they were
backordered from Airtronics with no delivery date.  I wanted
either one on channel 42, or one on the new odd channels to match
with a new tx module for my MD7.  BTW -- the MD7 is out of
production because they cannot get the clock chip any longer.
This is maybe why its not available on the new radios.  I really
like the feature.

But the Spectra or Vision modules will fit the MD7 and should be
available on the new channels.

I notice that the new VG7 receiver is not AMA approved as of the
February issue of MA.  I will still jump at it, knowing
Airtronics reputation for quality and conformance with the AMA
guidelines, unlike some other manufacturers :-).  Its $10 cheaper
in Tower than the Vanguard rx, and the final list price is higher
than the VG.  

    	I finally got a chance to fly my SS40 with it's new RCD receiver!
    I got an RCD FM receiver with Airtronics connectors and I'm using my
    X347 Transmitter with it.  It range checked great and it flew fine
    yesterday.  I'm not going to bother to send my Airtronics systems back
    for upgrades when I can get RCD receivers without waiting.  I can
    program my X347 for four planes, so I can just replace my old AM
    receivers with the RCD Dual Conversion FM ones and use one transmitter
    to fly four planes.  (Not at once though)  As it was stated somewhere
    in here, the Futaba FM receivers will NOT work with the JR X347 or with
    Airtronics FM Transmitters, so order the Airtronics version of the RCD
    receiver if you want to use it with JR.  They are comming out with one
    that has JR connectors, but I wanted Airtronics anyway since I have
    Airtronics servos in all of my existing planes.
    
    Charlie
    

    re .58, .61
    
    After reading the most recent entries and thinking about things,
    I apologize if I've mislead anyone.
    
    It is correct that the Vanguard PCM rcvr. is not compatible with
    the Vision xmtr. when running in PCM mode. 
    
    The Vanguard FM rcvr. is compatible with the Vision xmtr. when
    the xmtr. is set to PPM mode.
    
    The Vanguard PCM xmtr., when set to PPM mode, is compatible with
    a Vanguard FM rcvr.
    
    I think I've got it straight now, and having said all that I ran
    into a situation yesterday, that makes me wonder if I have a incipient
    malfunction or just a tuning problem.
    I nearly lost an airplane while flying with my Vision xmtr. set
    to PPM mode, using a 6 chan. Vanguard FM rcvr. The rcvr. was bought
    separately about a year ago and has never been bench tuned to my
    xmtr. The range was only ~900 ft. and I started noticing elev.
    glitches. I ran toward the plane ~150 ft. and got it back under
    control, and landed. Everything worked fine as long as I was in
    close. A ground range check with collapsed antenna, the tail of
    the plane pointed at me, the xmtr. antenna pointed away from the
    plane and held at ground level, showed a range of 60-80 ft. before
    hunting and jittering of all surfaces would set in.
    Swapping in the Vision 8 chan. PCM and resetting the xmtr. to
    PCM mode, showed a range of +150 ft. under the same test conditions,
    which is the usual result.
    So now I'm trying to remember if this same rcvr/xmtr has given me
    short range problems in the past and why I didn't notice it. I can
    think of one possible occurance last summer.
    I don't mind sending in the FM rcvr. to have it checked for problems
    or tuning tightness, but I'd like to avoid sending in the Vision
    xmtr. merely as a tuning reference. What is the collective wisdom
    on having to send in the xmtr. too ? 
    
    Terry

    
>>    It is correct that the Vanguard PCM rcvr. is not compatible with
>>    the Vision xmtr. when running in PCM mode. 

    This is in agreement with what I had been told, not what I wanted to
    hear.  You are the only person I know who is in a position *to* verify
    it, let alone to have already done so.  

    What happens when you try?  When all channels have a servo? (to check
    on possible re-ordering in the encoding)  Can you put both videos on a
    scope and backwards engineer the encoding algorithms?

    Al,
    When trying to use the Vanguard PCM rcvr. with the Vision xmtr.
    set on PCM 8 chan. (the only PCM setting it uses) there is absolutely
    no action on the servos; not a buzz, a twitch, nothing. The most
    servos I've had plugged in at one time is 4, and I haven't
    tried a systematic swapping to see if maybe there is one combo
    that does anything. I might try it but doubt that it will reveal
    anything different.
    Your idea of investigating the code reordering is interesting.
    If only I had a scope, logic analyzer, and Vision prom code
    listing at home; and sufficient motivation to wade through such
    a project....
    
    Terry

    Maybe the Vision PCM is compatible with Futaba.  
    
    Re -.2:  It sounds like you have a tuning problem.  The fact that you
    have different range with the same receiver and two transmitters either
    means your TX power is different or your frequency matching is off
    on the poor range combination.  Either your TX or RX is out of spec. 
    You could check the TX on a spectrum analyzer if you have access to
    one.
    
    Charlie
    

    Hobbies Plus in West Nashua near MKO will sell JR X-347 systems at
    $399.  And that, being in New Hampshire, is free of any sales tax or
    shipping/handling charges.  This is the glider or pattern package; the 
    heli package is more expensive, but I didn't ask how much.

    It seems that the distributor has dropped the price for this month, so
    Preston can still make a sufficient profit.  Sigh.  This is the radio 
    I'd like to buy, but even at $400 ......

    I think I now understand what it was like to have been a eunuch in a
    harem .... surrounded by desirables without the wherewithal to benefit.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
	  Hobbies Plus                Preston Heller
	  Greystone Plaza
	  650 Amherst St              11-9 T-Sa  x M & Su  
	  West Nashua, NH             603-882-9200
 
	     south side of Rt 101A, across from Wendy's, in the corner

    
    
          Tom's Hobby Corner in Chelmsford is now carrying the JR-347
     He actually had at least one in stock when I stopped by on Tuesday
     night. The price he quoted was $415 + tax. This price is not the
     best around, but is competitive with mail order, and potentialy
     offers immediate availability.

    the $399 price at Hobby USA INCLUDED the $15 JR rebate so their over
    the counter price was $414 + tax so the difference is smaller than it
    initially appears.

    What is this rebate matter?  Do I send in a coupon and get $15 from JR?

    Preston didn't mention that, so maybe I get both the $399 price *and*
    the $15 credit for a net of $384.

    I can't stand this any longer.  I hope Betty doesn't mind bread and
    water for a few weeks --- I'm going to buy the radio unless I get a
    reality attack between now and tomorrow noon.

    On the negative side, I called JR and asked if there were differences
    between the previous packages and this promotion.  Affirmative.  The
    standard packages, which are still available at the standard prices,
    have the expensive servos in them --- 901's in the glider package and
    517's in the pattern.  The promotion systems have 507's, the utility
    servos.
    
    Alton who really doesn't need a third manufacturer's stuff in the shop

    I picked up my JR X-347 PCM radio this afternoon, and I'm pleased.

    For $400 I got the glider package with two good [mini 901] servos.
    Inasmuch as this is the standard package, there was no rebate coupon.

    This price, which carries NO sales tax, is a good 10% below what one
    would normally expect.  I could not afford it, but at this price ...

    Now to put it into a PT-40 when I get back from a trip.

    Alton

    A friend of mine is having trouble programming his Futaba 7UAPS
    in his Legend glider.
    He can't program the travel on the left aileron and flap. Both
    left surfaces travel at 100 %  regardless of what he programs in.
    The right surfaces are ok. He can set them at whatever % of throw
    he desires.
    Left aileron on chan. 2
    right   "         "   4
    
    Left   flap       "   3
    right   ".        "   7
    
    
    The same thing happens when trying to program full span camber
    changing. He hasn't attempted programming for crow yet, and isn't
    sure if this radio is capable of it.
    He says the manual is vague and skimpy on details and he's about
    ready to ship the whole thing back to Futaba.
    
    Any of you Futaba freakazoids out there know what he needs to do
    to get this thing playing on all cylinders ?
    
    P.S. This ISN'T me having the problem. My Legend will use a Vision,
    and besides its still in the box.
    
    Terry

    What mode is he using???
    
    
    
    						Dave
    

    re.75
    I don't know what mode he's using on the 7UAP, but on his simpler
    radio that he uses for two channel flying he has rudder on the right
    and elevator on the left. Is that mode I? I'll ask him tonight.
    
    Terry

    Beats me! At any rate I find mine very easy to program and the
    directions easy to follow. Whatever mode he is using is not the
    standard mode flown in the US. Everthing discussed in my book
    talks about aler on ch1, elev on ch2, thr on ch3, rud on ch4, land gear
    on ch5, flaps/spoilers, on ch6, and whatever on ch7 (2nd aler)...
    
    
    
    						Dave
    

    The manual talks about master/slave channels. Can it be assumed
    that if one channel, eg, #3 is designated as the master, and another
    say, # 7 is designated slave, and the left flap is on #3 and the
    right flap is on #7, then...will #7 always duplicate the direction
    and % travel of #3 ? 
    
    The radio in question is not doing this. Is there something else
    that needs to be done in setting up the master/slave mode?
    
    Also, the manual states that any two channels can be mixed. What
    happens when two channels such as flaps are mixed with a third channel
    such as elevator, in order to get elev. compensation when the flaps
    are dropped? This function isn't working either, and taking the
    manual literally, it would seem beyond the scope of the radio.
    
    I took a look at the manual last night, and I'll have to agree it's
    mighty vague compared to the Vision manual, which is a veritable
    Encyclopedia Britannica in comparison.
    
    Terry

    I don't know squat about the Futaba, but both Airtronics and JR have a
    wing type parameter that selects flaperons or elevons when using two
    aileron servos.  The Futaba must have something similar to select what
    kind of mixing you get.
    
    Charlie

    Yep, I'm familiar with the Airtronics template system, but this
    guy's problem is that he can't get both flaps to travel the same
    amount when using them simply as flaps. One side always has 100%
    travel, while the other side follows the % programmed in.
    
    Terry

>          <<< Note 737.80 by ELMAGO::TTOMBAUGH "A Fistful of Epoxy" >>>
>                        -< Will look for a local guru >-

Don't torture yourself - call Futaba.

P.S.  Let us know what they say.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Since it's not my radio, I won't call Futaba, but its owner may
    call them, or maybe just box the whole thing up and send it back
    as he has threatened to do.
    I'll let you know what happens.
    
    Terry

    Al,
    	You can get in deep Doodoo if you make "drastic" changes in your
    settings between flights.  Make them gradually next time and don't rely
    on changing programming while you're airborne.  Use the dual rates and
    set the low rate about half the high rate.  I like to have the high
    rate set for too much control for test flights in case I need it.  With
    computer radios, there is an additional thing that MUST be on your
    preflight checklist:   Check the PROGRAM.  Don't take off with your
    Panic with your TX set to the Gentle Lady program.  At least one
    control will be reversed and  you will SPLAT.  Also, it's very possible
    that the throttle could be reversed.  You could think you're starting
    at idle and really be at full throttle.  That'll give you a real shock
    if the engine is a 1.20!  (I've seen it happen)
    
    Charlie
    
    
    The price of technology is more things to go wrong! (or more things to
    check)
    

    Is it possible to program an X-347 to give full span camber changing
    with up elevator ? ie, anytime up elevator is given, the flaps and
    ailerons droop a small amount.
    
    I was looking through the X-347 manual at the hobby shop yesterday
    and this particular function wasn't spelled out explicitly, but
    it looks like you could mix the flaps and ailerons, then mix in
    the elevator. Am I right ?
    
    Infinity delivery is "realistically, August if you have your order
    in now." Info second hand from a guy that talked to Jack Albrecht
    at Airtronics.
    
    I saw the RCD micro FM rcvr. at the hobby shop, $80 here. Not yet
    available with Airtronics connectors, but will be soon. I ordered
    one for my HLGs. It is smaller than the Airtronics micro that I've
    only seen in pictures, it's nearly as small as the old Futaba micro
    AM.
    
    How small are JR 901 servos, compared to standard size or Airtronics
    831 minis ?
    
    Terry

>    I saw the RCD micro FM rcvr. at the hobby shop, $80 here. Not yet
>    available with Airtronics connectors, but will be soon. I ordered
>    one for my HLGs. It is smaller than the Airtronics micro that I've
>    only seen in pictures, it's nearly as small as the old Futaba micro
>    AM.

My RCD micro arrived last week - it's in an electro-streak waiting for
it's first flight now (perhaps at lunch if the motor noise doesn't
interfere with the rx (it did before in a different plane)).
Anyway my price was $65 and I had previously called RCD and Airtronics
to get quotes on size and weight.  Then I made up a scrap balsa shape
for each rx.  I wouldn't say that the Airtronics is larger.  Alto
I must admit my balsa receiver (real one on back order from tower)
does not match the magazine pictures I have seen.  But the RCD is
just a hair larger than they quoted.  Both weigh right around 1 oz.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Can anyone get a copy of the Futaba FC-28 manual ?
    
    Eric.

>      <<< Note 737.86 by GALVIA::ECULLEN "It will never fly, Wright !" >>>
>                              -< FC-28 manual ? >-
>
>    Can anyone get a copy of the Futaba FC-28 manual ?
>    
>    Eric.

If an FC-28 is some sort of Transmitter then we don't have them
in the States or if we do it is called something else.  

Give us a hint - how many channels, features, etc.
Then perhaps we can send you a copy of the US equivalent.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Kay,
    
    The FC-28 is the latest in computerised RC tx. It is similar to 
    the PCM 1024 but with more features.
    
    These include :-
    
    	9 channel
    	Large LCD (same as PCM 1024)
    	Tacho
    	DSC connection to Rx
    	CAMPac - removable model memory cartridge (16K)
    	Helicopter/Aerobatic/Glider support in one box
    	Expandable to (I think) 24 channels.
    	
    If you had a copy of a PCM 1024 manual it would help
    me.
    
    Regards,
    
    Eric
    

>    If you had a copy of a PCM 1024 manual it would help
>    me.
>    
>    Regards,
>    
>    Eric

All the modern Futaba Radios are 1024 so I assume you mean the 9VAP
which is presently the top of the line Futaba Tx in the States.

A copy of this manual is in the mail to you at ILO/PTG.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################
    

    Kay,
    
    Yes I meant the 9VAP.
    
    Thanks.
    
    Eric.

    Al Ryder mentioned the other day that there is an ATRACS conversion
    for the Airtronics Vision radio...  Highlights he mentioned:
    
    	Futaba setup - Use your futaba rx! (BIG one for me!)
    	increase to 8 stored planes
    
    Boy, this would be a great step for me.  Maybe I will have to ask for
    it for Christmas!
    
    Does anyone have any more information about it??
    
    thanks
    jeff
    

    For the Programmable radio guru's....
    
    I have a JR 347 and was wondering if the following set-up would
    be possible.  Any help is most appreciated.  
    
    I'd like to set-up the landing mode switch so that when flipped to 
    landing mode the rudder is mixed with the throttle.  It gets more 
    complicated.  i'd lie to use this on a twin and use two throttle
    servos.  This would require that I mix the throttle channel with 
    one of the auxillary channels to actuate both servos. However
    when the switch would be in the landing mode setting I'd like to mix
    right rudder with left engine throttle and vice versa.
    
    Is this possible? What are the mix settings/Channels used?
    
    
    Tom

    I'll take a stab at it...
    
    You need three free mixes. There are four in the 347 but the 4th is
    dedicated to rudder/aileron. You need two of them to be activated by
    the same switch. Mix the throttle to opposite throws using those two
    channels. The third mix is to link the two throttle servos to the
    throttle stick and should use the ON switch(less) position.
    
    Ability to do it really depends on what else you need mixers for.

    RC Buyers Warehouse in Nashua, NH has the X347(fm) for $369 (and no
    sales tax).  Sorry, I did not ask what the PCM price was..
    

    OK, I called CSL and talked to them about the latest upgrade..
    
    This upgrade is V3.0 of the ATRCS and sells for $95 + shipping.
    
    It may be applied to your MD7SP/ATRCS or Vision radios.
    
    It provides:
    
    	Futaba compatibility (he said this was in the original 7SP upgrade)
    	8 plane memory
    	Naming ability for the 8 planes
    	Launch switch disables landing mode setup (avoid going into crow
    		on launch)
    	Failsafe - freeze controls for time period then goto presets
    		PCM rx - will remember failsafe after power down
    		PPM rx - needs failsafe reloaded from Tx at power up.
    	Gear travel endpoint adjustment on PPM
    	Flying wing setup fixed
    	Reverse Flaps stick
    	Cross trims
    
    
    We talked some about the flap/throttle switch.  The "feature" that the
    trim on the flap/throttle control is in effect for the entire travel
    and that the flap control is not more sensitive at low settings like a
    throttle control would be on a power plane radio.
    
    
    I also asked what the future holds..  Well, Airtronics is discontinuing
    the Vision line!  He said that if I don't have a Vision radio soon,
    then I can forget about their upgrade as they have not worked out an
    upgrade for the Infinity.  
    
    He made another interesting statement that the Vision was going into
    the Infinity box and that their upgrade would not go in an Infinity
    Tx.  So it sounds like the low end Infinity will really just be a 
    Vision..
    
    Oh, and for you people looking for items for your Christmas list... 
    The 10ch, frequency agile Inifinity should be available in December. 
    They didn't know the list but had heard that you should be able to buy
    one for about $900...  They joked that there will also be a 3 year
    payment plan avaialable...
    
    They currently have no plans for an Infinity upgrade, as they say it
    will have it all...  Then I asked, even Futaba compatibility??  "No.
    Maybe we will do an upgrade after all!"
    
    cheers,
    jeff
    

    Thanks for the info Jeff.
    Sounds like it might be worth $95, at least the 8 plane memory,
    names, failsafe, and flap stick disable at launch. I assume that's
    how they get the crow lockout.
    
    What's the "flying wing problem"? I've never used that template
    but am planning to when I get around to building the Cortina.
    
    If the Infinity will be a Vision in a new box, then I assume he
    means the 8 and 10 chan. Infinities, not the 6 chan. for <$400,
    unless they've made quite a price/performance breakthrough.
                                  
    I assume they send you a new ROM. 
    Haven't looked inside my xmtr. case lately, but I don't recall
    that the ROM is in a socket. That could cause some problems as
    people attempt to de-solder the old one.
    
    Terry

    I didn't ask about the flying wing problem...
    
    He said the Infinities was a "family" of radios...  So I suspect
    that the Vision in the Infinity box will be one of those members.
    
    No, you send them the radio and they replace the ROM and send it back.
    
    cheers,
    jeff

>>    I assume they send you a new ROM. 
    
    No, you send in your transmitter, less antenna and battery.  You don't
    have to re-enter your current set-ups; they will extract, [convert?,]
    and reload the settings in the upgrade for you.
    
    
    They say these upgrades will work with RCD and JR  FM-PPM 4 to 8
    channel receivers.
    
    I don't know if Jeff mentioned their phone number, 	408-946-4142.
    

>    What's the "flying wing problem"? I've never used that template
>    but am planning to when I get around to building the Cortina.

I had a Genesis for about a week before I wing walked it.
Talk about frustration - this would be more common than
you think because V-Tail 2 channel gliders are actually
flying wings.  That is you want rudder on the right stick
and if you tell it that it is in V-Tail mode - it thinks you
have an aileron ship ...

Anyway back to the Flying wing problem.
The dual rates did nothing.
The flight mode switch (Reflex/Normal/Launch) did nothing.
Perhaps other stuff was broke as well.  Anyway I needed full
down on launch and needed to take it out as I pitched over
from a hand launch and the darn Launch switch was being ignored
by the vision so I had to hold the right stick full down as I
threw - I was so angry I could scream.

Result - I convinced myself I would never have another flying
wing or V-Tail 2 channel glider - because of my the radio.

I assume this is the problem they alluded to.

So - somehow I gotta talk my wife into this upgrade.  Was kinda
hoping they would drive LCD display with a clock and run it
off the snap roll button - too much to hope for I guess.

Still angers me to no end that you spend $500+ on a radio
and you have to glue a Kmart timer to it.


Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Jeez, I have a v-tail glider still in the box too. So I had
    two set-up problems just waiting to grab me if youse guys hadn't
    spilled the beans.
    Guess I'll have to send for the upgrade if I want to use half my
    inventory.
    
    The lack of a clock doesn't bother me too much since I hang a Lorus
    stopwatch around my neck, which works better for contest timing.
    
    Terry
    

    Having the Tx clock on my 347 tied into my trainer switch (when not
    training) gives me instant access on release (left hand index finger is
    right there) and lets me hold the Tx in two hands at the critical few
    seconds after launch (zoom). I used to time myself with a watch around
    my neck but it was always a hassle. When I fly my son's plane with the
    Attack, I don't bother timing for myself. I do like to time each flight
    because it give me a reference as to how well I flew that flight, even
    for fun at lunchtime.

    On my latest marathon programming session on the Vision, I noticed
    two oddities;
    
    #1: If you have the landing mode set at 0%, ie, flap stick full
    up, and landing mode is entered on initial stick movement,
    then you might notice that your flaps and ailerons will not couple
    if you are set up for full span ailerons. If you hold pressure
    against the flap stick, against the upper stop, then the flaps and
    ailerons will couple correctly.
    Since entering the landing mode normally disables flap/ail. coupling,
    what seems to be happening is that the flap pot resistance is read
    ambiguously when at its full upper limit, and the CPU thinks you're
    in landing mode.
    
    The simple fix for this is to put the flap stick down 2 or 3 clicks
    before setting the landing mode range. Now, when the stick is full
    up, the pot resistance is read correctly and flap/ail. coupling
    is present.
    It says to do this in the manual (5 clicks) but doesn't say why,
    or what the symptoms may be if you don't.
    
    #2:
    
    On my latest Legend setup, I used the alternate setting for the
    first time, since I wanted to switch between two crow and elev.
    compensation settings while in the air to see which works best.
    Normal mode is setup #1, alternate is #3.
    
    This in itself works ok, but when I switched the location of the
    flight mode switch from right to left in setup #1, then
    tried to do the same in #3, it gave me a "alternate-access level
    3-denied", message. 
    Since access level 3 is the "change anything" level, and levels
    2, 1, and 0 are progressive more restrictive, this doesn't seem
    right.
    As is, I can fly with the flight mode switch on the left in setup
    #1, but must retain it on the right in alternate setup #3. This
    is asking for trouble, so I went back to the right side for both
    setups until I can find out what's going on. It seems like a software
    glitch to me.
    
    Any ideas ?
    
    Terry

    Those of us who work in anti-static mode, shoes, smocks, etc. take
    ESD for granted sometimes, but a little story told by Phil Renaud
    last night at our club meeting shows that it is out there lurking.
    
    He was packing up his equipment on his carpeted living room floor
    getting ready to go to Munich for the big F3B contest later this
    month.
    
    He has a large ply and metal box that he built to safely transport
    his stuff on the airlines.
    
    He had one hand on the box and picked up his Omega fuselage with
    the other, the palm of his hand over the wing root area.
    As he swung the plane through the air toward the box, he felt a
    static discharge between his palm and the female servo plug imbedded
    in the fuselage.
    
    He thought. "Naw, that didn't do anything, but I'd better check."
    
    Sure enough, the Airtronics PCM rcvr. was zapped dead as a dodo.
    He swapped rcvrs. and the new one was okay.
    
    So the moral of this story is that ESD will zap you at the least
    expected times, and always have as many $120 rcvrs. on hand as
    possible. ;^(
    
    Terry 

>      <<< Note 737.95 by N25480::FRIEDRICHS "Keep'm straight 'n level" >>>
>                          -< V3.0 ATRCS upgrade info >-

Well - the last contest of the season was Saturday so yesterday
I send my Vision to California for the CSL upgrade.

I can't tell you how excited I am.
Can't wait to get it back.  Also can't (won't) be flying any
sailplanes till it gets back - sigh.  I just called and they are
running at 1 to 2 day turn around so it shouldn't be long.

Anyway - I've never been able to use the alternate setup switch because
I only had enough memory for 4 planes till now.

Sure have been having a hard time turning the Lovesong during landings.
I decreased my reverse aileron differential by 50 percent and that seems
to have made it worse.

I wish there was a way to automatically increase my aileron throw during
crow?

Anybody else having turning (wing leveling) difficulties during landing?

Now if only I had been smart enough to put my power planes on the same
frequency the vision would have another bunch of receivers that
it could talk to.

With these upgrades it looks like the Vision is becoming the 90s version
of the Kraft.  I'll probably have this one radio forever.

I was at Acton last week and walking with it and the neck strap came
loose and it fell all the way to the ground.  Landed on the sticks - no
damage.  Fortunately this was in grass and the ground wasn't frozen yet.
I have had that darn neck strap come loose several times on me.  Usually
when I'm hand launching and I have a death grip on the Tx anyhow - but
still...  Anybody have a good fix for that or should I switch to my
Futaba neck strap?

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

Kay,

	When I first started flying, one of the things I wanted to get was
a neck strap. However I couldn't see paying the prices that the catalog's
wanted. Now, I have a nice heavy duty neck strap that has never given me a 
problem. Comes in a variety of colors too. What did I do?????????

	Went to the local music store and bought a saxaphone strap for 4 bucks.


Steve

>              <<< Note 737.105 by SNAX::SMITH "I FEEL THE NEED" >>>
>                                -< Neck strap >-
...
>	Went to the local music store and bought a saxaphone strap for 4 bucks.

Steve, do they all say "Boots Randolph" on them? :-)

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Kay, glad to hear you'll be the guinea pig on the CSL upgrade.
    
    Oddly enough, I called CSL yesterday to ask about the turn around
    time. I may be sending mine in shortly since the next contest won't
    be until early Dec.
    
    My neck strap did the same thing until I slipped a piece of fuel tubing
    over the area where the spring blade meets the fixed portion.
    
    re. Lovesong aileron response- have you tried increasing up aileron
    travel ? Are your flaps coupled with ailerons at all times ?
    Both methods helped the Legend.
    
    Terry

    Re. .106
    
    >>>>Does your neck strap say Boots Randalph on it??????
    
    
    
    Ya it does, but it's on the inside so it lays against your chest
    and no one can see it. 8^)
    
    Steve

>    <<< Note 737.107 by ELMAGO::TTOMBAUGH "Janine T., come fly with me!" >>>
...
    re. Lovesong aileron response- have you tried increasing up aileron
    travel ? Are your flaps coupled with ailerons at all times ?
    Both methods helped the Legend.
...
Terry, I only have one flap servo in the fuselage so I don't use them
for roll control.  During crow my up aileron is almost 90 degrees up.
But there is never much travel - so it is real gentle turning normally.
So in crow I have 100 percent negative differential.  That is one aileron
moves down and the other stays fully up.

Wish I had exponential or could select a higher aileron rate or more
travel during crow.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Now I get it, you're having problems in directional control when using
    full crow. Welcome to the club.
    The Lovesong and Legend may be different enough that no comparisions
    are meaningful, but with nearly 90 degrees of up aileron I congratulate
    you on not having stuffed it good before this.
    I've noticed that anything above ~45 degrees aileron in crow mode
    pretty
    well puts you in set-and-forget mode during landings.
    
    I started out with about 30 degrees and gradually cut back to 10-15
    without affecting descent control but improving roll control a lot.
    
    Oddly enough, this winds up being about the same amount that Tim Renaud
    was using on his Legend in Az. last winter, and when we asked him why
    so little crow ? he says , "don't need it", we heard it, ignored it,
    paid for it.
    
    Terry

    Kay,
    
    Have you tried the other stick? On my RB when I'm landing with my flaps
    fully deployed I still have good control with my rudder. I don't know
    how this compares to ailerons since I only have rudder/elevator/flaps.
    
    I can still pick up a wing but it's pretty roll-coupled anyway. I'm
    hoping that with the flaperon wing that's half built I'll be able to
    program away the roll coupling and use the rudder to simply yaw flat
    when that's what I want. Some of the power guys program in
    rudder/aileron mixing when landing to give better low speed response.
    That's on the 347, maybe Vision owners need to fly both stick 8^)

    In the Merlin instructions, Frank Weston says to not bother with
    crow as the roll response is terrible.  Sound familar? :-)  Instead,
    he suggests using simple flaps and claims that a vertical dive with
    full flaps will not overstress the (Merlin) airframe or cause flutter.

                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |            Happy Landings!
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|              - Dan Miner
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |     " The Earth needs more OZONE,
                      |      /                       not Castor Oil!! "    
                      |_____/

Book says that with flaps deployed, you can put it into a straight down dive
and not exceed VNE (structural failure point).

Steve

    The thing about using crow is that it "locks" the wing tips level, in
    the roll axis, so that on spot landing approaches it grooves in without
    trying to fall off the bubble of lift generated by the flaps in the
    center of the wing.
    Most people using crow are looking for this effect rather than quick
    descent from altitude which flaps alone will do, as previously
    stated.
    
    The trick is to get it to lock the tips without getting too much
    spoileron action or losing roll control. The Legend happens to do
    this with relatively little crow, but not a particularly steep
    descent.
    
    The Dodgson designs I've seen using crow, can come down really steeply
    without gaining speed but are pretty well committed to the chosen path.
    
    Terry

>   <<< Note 737.111 by ZENDIA::REITH "Jim Reith DTN 226-6102 - LTN2-1/F02" >>>
>               -< How effective is the rudder during all this? >-
>
>    Kay,
>    
>    Have you tried the other stick? On my RB when I'm landing with my flaps
>    fully deployed I still have good control with my rudder. I don't know
>    how this compares to ailerons since I only have rudder/elevator/flaps.
>    
>    I can still pick up a wing but it's pretty roll-coupled anyway. I'm
>    hoping that with the flaperon wing that's half built I'll be able to
>    program away the roll coupling and use the rudder to simply yaw flat
>    when that's what I want. Some of the power guys program in
>    rudder/aileron mixing when landing to give better low speed response.
>    That's on the 347, maybe Vision owners need to fly both stick 8^)

I have full aileron/rudder coupling on so when I bang the sticks left I
am giving full left rudder and dropping the right aileron.  The left aileron
stays up.  That is 100 percent reverse aileron differential.  I have very
little roll coupling with the rudder so I start to panic when I can't get
the wings level.  The last few notes have opened my eyes a little and
I am most anxious to play with the crow percents as soon as I get my
radio back and ...



Spring returns!

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    THoughts from a layman...   it seems that the deflection of the
    ailerons full up si allowing the lift generated from the flaps
    to spill out on the outer sides of the flap.  This is what might
    be locking the tips in.  It sounds like if one were to develop
    a seperation between the inner edge of the aileron and the outer edge
    of the flap the spilling could take place when the flaps were deployed 
    without having to deflect the ailerons.
    
    
    Tom

Well - my Vision is back from the CSL upgrade.

I wish I had tons of nice stuff to say about it but I'm
not overjoyed.  They did exactly what they said they
would (including 24 hour turn around (UPS took another
week getting it back)) but I guess I was secretly hoping
that in addition to what they advertised that I would
find tons and tons of subtle little changes.

I was looking forward to setting down and re-reading a
new user manual.  They send 3 page single sided addendum
to the manual.

1.  8 setup memory.  But we knew about that.

2.  Setup Names.  But we knew about that also... It limits you to 7 
    characters (all upper case) and some symbols.
    If you don't name something the numbers still work.

3.  Launch switch disable on landing option.  But we knew about that also...
    This allows you to be in launch mode and use the flap stick to add 
    additional flap without introducing any of the landing type mixers or 
    options.  Hmmmmmmmmm

4.  Enable Failsafe.  But we knew about that also...
    They use the OLD Airtronics method of implementing this.  You have to
    take the active part is sending the failsafe data before the receiver
    has it.  The receiver will remember it until powered down.  If you
    have the PCM wire harness (I don't and don't want one) then power
    remains on a portion of the Rx to hold the failsafe info.  Guess the
    CSL guys didn't look at what the other vendors are doing.  If they
    would just memorize the failsafe setting and re-transmit it once every
    30 seconds or so you wouldn't want or need a special power harness or
    have to explicitly send the failsafe setting.  As it is what you do
    is enable it and place your transmitter in the settings you want the
    receiver to failsafe to and hold down the two enable keys to transmit
    it.  Then you have to cycle power on your Tx if you want to test it.
    Do this before every flight (or during if you dare) if you don't have
    the PCM harness - hokey at best.  Fortunately if you don't select it
    the PCM receiver will still be working in Hold-Last mode.

5.  Reverse Flat Stick.  But we knew about that also...
    What you didn't know is if you select this for one plane you have
    selected it for all planes.  I have to admit I can't think of
    a reason why I would not want it for all plans unless you were
    using your Tx for some other guys Rx one day - a possibility.  
    Say your buddies Vision dies - you say - no problem - pull your
    Tx module and battery and use mine when I'm not flying.  Just
    re-program one of my unused 8 plane memories.  So he does and when
    you get it back and select your plane the flap stick is reversed.
    Oh well - I like it in the normal directions and don't know anybody
    that want's it reversed.

6.  Cross Trims.  But we knew about that also...
    Useful I'm sure and some day perhaps I will see the wisdom of this
    method.  For one thing with a hand full on a first flight you
    shouldn't have to reach across for the elevator trim and accidentally
    turn off your power switch!

7.  VTR Elevator to Camber Mixing.  But we knew about that also...
    I would like to have seen VTR on Ailerons, and rudder.  They did this 
    for the F3B guys so that they have low rates on flap changes with 
    elevator but when they really yank it around the pylon the flap 
    suddenly wakes up and gets more sensitive.  

8.  Futaba Receivers.  But we knew about that also...
    They had this in the MD7SP with ATRCS mod all along but didn't
    put it in the Vision for political reasons.  Now if only my Futaba
    receiver had an Airtronics/JR mode.  This also means that my Vision
    can talk to the RCD receiver that Lamar has to sell because his
    JR 347 can't talk to it.  But he wants too much.  R U listening Lamar?

9.  Gear Travel Endpoints.  But we knew about that also...
    The interesting thing here is that they are non functional on the PCM
    receiver.  The assumption on my part is that the 8th channel is not
    treated as a normal variable but rather just as a binary switch.
    Guess if we looked at the PCM demodulated on a scope we may find that
    the channel 8 byte might in fact be a channel 8 bit.  Hmmmmmmmmm
    Well 8 channel PCM receivers are for the birds (Lovesong's actually)
    anyway.

So there you have it.  I haven't actually had a chance to see if they
fixed the flying wing problems yet - but I assume they did since they
said they would.  Was it worth it.  

I feel that I had no choice - I've been up against the 4 plane limit
for over a year.  I would have thought that they would have made it
more like a Infinity but they didn't.

So if I was buying a new radio which one would it be?  



ACE - they just announced FM Tx modules and Receivers.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    I should be getting my Vision back from the upgrade next week.
    
    I'm confused about some things Kay mentioned:
    
    Launch sw. disable--I guess this means that if you're not
    in launch mode, ie, switch in center position, then crow, etc
    will NOT be disabled when flap stick is moved. In other
    words, you must be in launch mode ONLY to select the disable function.
    
    
    Reverse flap stick mode affects all set ups?
    In the stock Vision all servo travels can be set independently
    from each other and from other setups. How else could you have
    a throttle control on the flap stick in one set up, whose
    travel is normally opposite that for flaps in another setup ?
    
    VTR flaps--This could be useful in MTS sportsman type flying. I've
    had occasions where it would be an advantage on the Legend.
    It is falling out of favor somewhat in F3B, as the newer designs
    are slowed in the turns too much by the extra drag. Still useful
    on the older designs such as the Comets.
    
    Futaba/RCD receiver mode--My stock Vision, set to FM, was already 
    compatible with my RCD rcvr. Is there an RCD PCM rcvr. too ?
    
    I assume the Futaba compatibility refers to Futaba PCM rcvrs.
    
    Terry

    Airtronics and JR have the same FM pulse modulation. Futaba FM is
    incompatible. I believe the pulse amplitude is reversed. RCD doesn't
    mention that the Rxs differ more than just the connectors...

>    <<< Note 737.118 by ELMAGO::TTOMBAUGH "Janine T., come fly with me!" >>>
>                        -< Vision upgrade..questions. >-
>
>    I should be getting my Vision back from the upgrade next week.
>    
>    I'm confused about some things Kay mentioned:
>    
>    Launch sw. disable--I guess this means that if you're not
>    in launch mode, ie, switch in center position, then crow, etc
>    will NOT be disabled when flap stick is moved. In other
>    words, you must be in launch mode ONLY to select the disable function.

Now you've got me confused as well.  If your not in launch (you are in
normal or reflex) then when you pull back on the flap stick you will
also pick up your hi aileron-rudder coupling (if you had it selected).
Clear?    
    
>    Reverse flap stick mode affects all set ups?
>    In the stock Vision all servo travels can be set independently
>    from each other and from other setups. How else could you have
>    a throttle control on the flap stick in one set up, whose
>    travel is normally opposite that for flaps in another setup ?

Well - you can still select servo reverse on any channel.
By the way - I read this but I never tried it because I like my
flap stick normal.

...
>    Futaba/RCD receiver mode--My stock Vision, set to FM, was already 
>    compatible with my RCD rcvr. Is there an RCD PCM rcvr. too ?
>    
>    I assume the Futaba compatibility refers to Futaba PCM rcvrs.

No, No, No, a thousand times no.

PPM (FM) only.  The difference between Futaba and JR/Airtronics is
only which side of the carrier they modulate.  This allows you to switch
the FM modulation to either side.  There are no RCD PCM receivers available
for Airtronics or Futaba or JR (yet).  The Vision will never be compatible
with Futaba PCM.  Not now, not ever, never.  They couldn't even get it to
work with Airtronics till this rev.    

A good computer hacker could make it so but I don't see that in our future.
If ACE ever releases their instruction set and ROM listings then we may
see some hacker make a version of ACE that can talk to various vendors
PCM receivers.  I'd love to do it myself - but on the other hand I wouldn't
want to have written code that had a bug in it that causes the CPU to 
hang and crash a plane!  But I wouldn't mind taking a stab at adding
clock support to a Vision!  Since the Vision-P can use the button for
snap roll we know the micro processor can sense the button and we could
use the LCD display for a count up/down clock.  Just have to have enough
ROM and RAM.  With listings we could even remove functions we don't need
like reverse flap stick!

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    just warn me if you're debugging ROMs when I'm at the field 8^)

    If after upgrading I'll be able to:
    
    Pull the flap stick back (when in the launch sw. disable mode)
    and have only the flaps extend without getting crow or any other
    surface movement that I may have coupled in, then I'll be happy.
    
    Reverse the direction of flap stick movement in one setup, so that
    it can function as a throttle stick, ie, down is low/off throttle,
    up is high throttle, while still retaining normal stick movement
    in other setups, ie, down is extended flaps, up is retracted flaps,
    then I'll be happy.
    
    Use the Vision xmtr. in FM with my RCD rcvr., which I can do already so
    I should remain happy.
    
    Not worry about F-word compatibility because such a possibility
    will never arise, making me extremely happy.
    
    Are you sure that ACE is such a panacea? (beginning to sound like
    the Marketing notesfile) From what I've read, Edberg, et al, some
    sailplane mixing versatility isn't as good as the Vision or 347.
    The one guy that I know who bought one for glider use, showed up
    later with a Vision.
    
    Terry
    
    
    
    

    I know some of these questions have been asked before. But prices and
    features have change a lot recently. So What programable radio should I
    buy.
    
    All I need today is airelon and elevator mixing. And prefer one
    compatible with my airtronics recv that came with my vangaurd. And
    compatible with my mix of airtronics and futaba servos. Price around
    $400.00. I really don't care about PCM today but I may want it tomorro.
    Are the FM versions of these radios just a different recv or are radios
    different also.
    
    Infinity 600
    JR-X347
    Futaba 7AUSP
    
    What is so magic about the vision the makes it's price so much higher
    than these. Why is everyone picking the JR as opposed to the others
    when it tends to cost ~50+ more.
    

    George,
    
    The FM 347 only differs in the Rx. Lamar just got his for $329.95. It
    is compatible with Airtronics FM Rxs and, by trimming the plugs, will
    accept Futaba J series connectors (S-148, S-133 servos). The Max4 FM
    comes with a 7ch Rx that works with the 347. I've done the servo and
    Max4 stuff and I believe Charlie Watt is using his airtronics flight
    packs. Futaba Rxs are the only thing to be avoided with the 347

RE. George -

I picked my 347 up at Hobbies Plus for $329.95(as Jim has said.) I've got it
installed in my Spirit which has Futaba servos(s148 and s133) installed. For
some reason(had my head in the sand??), I thought JR and Futaba RX were
comapatible. :^( Oh well, now I got to see if I can sell my RCD 535 Futaba
compatible micro receiver and pick up a JR compatible version. (No Kay, I'm
not listening...yet!)

-Lamar

    In the price/perormance range you're looking at, I'd say the 347 is
    your best bet, followed by the Infinity. I say this based partly
    on price, and partly on the greater number of channels on the 347.
    
    The Infinity still wins on support from Airtronics, ie, help with
    problems over the phone, etc.
    
    Terry

    My Vision with the CSL upgrade arrived friday night, 9 days turnaround,
    almost all of that time consumed by UPS.
    
    Like Kay said, it does everything CSL said it would.
    The flap stick reverse is independent on all 8 setups, as would be
    the only logical way. Also the cross trims are cute. I can now control
    the flap trim with the right hand elev. trim, and the elev. trim
    with the left hand flap trim. The most useful thing about this
    would seem to be having some elev. control with the left hand while
    your right hand is busy launching, as on a maiden flight.
    
    The select flap only mode is useful if you have crow but want only
    flap movement when the flap stick is moved. Previously this could
    only be done with a switch preset or with the flap trim tab, or you
    could get full span camber with the side lever. 
    
    Being able to punch in and display the names of each plane, will
    prevent that syndrome where you get to the field and everthing is as
    dead as a doornail, and you say Oh....whatever, then discover that you
    have one plane selected while trying to fly another.
    
    Terry

    
    Why is vision better?
    
    Are not futaba recv. compatible with airtronics? If airtronics can be
    used why not futaba?
    
    Why is the price difference so high between PCM and FM on JR
    and so low on infinity?
    
    If you think vision has such great support why not recommend infinity
    since it will probably get the same support?
    
    Wow 329.00 sounds like a great deal.
    I propabably will get the 347 but I just want to be sure I won't want
    some new feature I don't have a year or twop from now.
    

>                      <<< Note 737.128 by CSOVAX::MILLS >>>
>                              -< More questions >-
>
>    
>    Why is vision better?

I'm not convinced it is unless you are targeting solely at hi-performance
sailplanes.  The reason the cost is noticeably higher is because it was
one of the first computer radios and the technology wasn't there enough
to lower the price like it is now for the 347 and Infinity.
    
>    Are not futaba recv. compatible with airtronics? If airtronics can be
>    used why not futaba?
    
They modulate on the opposite sides of the carrier.  Trust us - they are
not compatible - but as evidenced by the the ATRCS upgrades it is within
the power of all vendors to offer both methods of modulation at the transmitter.

>    Why is the price difference so high between PCM and FM on JR
>    and so low on infinity?

Marketing.  Same reason it is usually cheaper to by an inexpensive system
for a flight pack then just a receiver, servos, charger, harness, etc.

>    If you think vision has such great support why not recommend infinity
>    since it will probably get the same support?

Support ain't everything - ever see an unhappy 347 customer?
    
>    Wow 329.00 sounds like a great deal.
>    I propabably will get the 347 but I just want to be sure I won't want
>    some new feature I don't have a year or twop from now.

I think it is a great deal and if I were you I would go for it.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################
    

    PCM is only $50 more on the JRs when I was pricing them. The big
    difference in JR's prices is what servos you'll be getting. I didn't
    want to spend the money so I got the cheapest (507) and will use them
    on power planes and Jimmy's gliders 8^) The Rx battery is the 550ma
    flat pack which doesn't fit in too many gliders. Again, I had a bunch
    of s-133 servos and some 250ma packs so I went the cheap route. I also
    got PCM by using my Max6 Computer Rx that I already had.

    If your main or only use will be on high performance gliders, 6 servos,
    multiple esoteric mixing, etc. then the Vision is still the radio
    of choice.
    
    If you don't need that much stuff then the 347 looks to be the most
    cost effective to me. The Infinity is somewhat compromised for
    glider use by trying to be all things to all people, saying
    that based on what I've seen in local use in recent weeks since
    the Infinity has been available. 
    
    Terry

    The latest hot set-up for Vision users is to disconnect the three LEDs
    on the front panel. This extends battery life ~30 minutes.
    
    Terry

        Re:    <<< Note 737.132 by ELMAGO::TTOMBAUGH "Naked in a cave in the Jemez" >>>

                I finally  got  the  last  component  of  my Micropro8000
        upgrade.  With  this  I don't believe any programmable radio gets
        close.  This last  piece was the software and cable for the RS232
        connection to a PC.   Its really fascinating to play with because
        the  radio  continuously  sends setting information  through  the
        connection.  You can see the numbers  change  as you move sticks,
        flip  switches  etc..    It  can save and  load  the  transmitter
        settings  in  disk files, so its possible to have  a  library  of
        airplanes,  plus  a history of mixing from earlier flights.   The
        other  features in the upgrade are alternate aircraft, crow, even
        more unlimited  mixing  capabilities.  This radio is pure fun.  I
        sure wish it was prettier!
        
        Anker

    Ray of Worcester hobby shop fame, is very happy with his Micropro too.
    At the recent CMRCM Mall show we discussed various mixes for gliders
    and how easy/difficult they were to do. The RS-232 sure is a nice
    option and I wish my 347 had some reasonable way to offload the setups.
    I have 4 model memory and between gliders and power tend to swap
    through 7-8 planes. Wish I had a port or plug in setup memory modules
    to be swapped around. Transposing to/from paper copies is prone to
    error. 
    
    Re: pretty...
    
    Ray says that at least he can spray it with 409 cleaner after a session
    and not have to worry about it deteriorating the stick gimbels.
    Something to be said for that.

    I've moved the sticks on Ray's radio and i'm NOT impressed.  The lowest
    cost major brands have better sticks.  When they package it properly
    they might have a winner, but by then the other guys will have all of
    the good features.
    
    Charlie
    
    By the way, I also like modern features like PCM and failsafe.
    

    Apparently the FC28 has a means of downloading via the DSC connection
    to a remote computer. I have not seen it done though. Anyone got any
    contacts to get more info ?
    
    Regards,
    
    Eric.
    
    PS: Wouldn't it be nice to hook up a DEC notebook and have a neat sort of
    Black Box ! 
    
    

    Hi All from down under!
    
    I stopped by a Canberra hobby shop yesterday to find where they fly
    and in general look around.  Got talking about radios and such.  Catch
    this...  A JR X-347 costs over A$1000!!!  (that's about US$750)!!
    
    An OS 40FP is A$120, which isn't too much more.  Kits were generally
    pretty pricy as well.
    
    Hopefully Sunday I will get to see their local field and kick some
    tires with the folks.
    
    Cheers,
    jeff
    

	Hello,

	Is failsafe programable on JR X-347 ?
	Is it possible to have a pre-recorded position for failsafe ?

	thanks,		Jean-claude.
 
   	

If you have a PCM Rx, failsafe can either go to a preprogramed position (low
throttle, flaps, gentle turn...) or can hold the last valid frame/position.
You can also program in the amount of time before it takes effect.

	Thank you,

	It' the Tx i'll buy for my new tail-less electric glider !

	Have nice flight.
 

I just received a Sailplane Computer Radio Comparison Table
from Dynamic Modeling, 4922 Rochelle, Irving CA 92714.

Unfortunately it says right on it "NO reproduction".
So if you want your own send $2.00 or 7 1st class stamps to the
above address. 

Even if you aren't interested in sailplanes but just investigating
the new computer radios I would recommend looking thru this chart.

I'll keep mine in the office if anybody want's a free look.

The bottom line is...

I will quote Don Edberg's last paragraph in the cover letter.

"So what to buy?  Get a Vision if you can afford it.  But, if you can wait
a little... Futaba is supposed to be revision its Super 7 to be a sailplane
radio, with all the faults corrected.  If true, it could be a cheaper Vision.
Futaba is also coming out with its 9ZAP and Airtronics has its Infinity 1000.
Both will blow the Vision out of the water, but will be very expensive 
(>US$1000).  I'd wait for the new cheap Futaba."

Don't flame - that was Don's conclusion.
From reading the chart the JR 347 still ranks up as good as anything
that can only deal with 4 plane memories.  That is if you can live
with only a 4 plane memory I think the 347 is the most cost effective
radio (Sailplane or power).

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Here's a problem maybe someone has run into before. I notice on the
    Saber that the flaps do not drop evenly. The left flap will start to
    move just before the right flap. At about half extension, they are
    about a quarter of an inch off. At full extension, there even.
    
    I've been through the radio a dozen times and can't find any reason for
    it. The servo's are fine and are set up the same way meaning center is
    the same on both.
    
    Anybody got a clue???????????
    
    Steve

    Are the flaps on separate channels or "Y"ed to the same channel??
    
    If on separate, my first check would be the "proportional/linear"
    settings.  If they start and stop at different points, it sounds like
    they are getting there along different curves...
    
    cheers,
    jeff
    

I had a problem like this on the Pulsar. I had to play with the exponential
settings on each channel to get the flaps in sync. 

-Lamar