Conference vmszoo::rc

    Sounds like something I was thinking about just the other day. Soon
    as I find the time I work up some stuff to put in here. Meanwhile,
    shoot your questions in here and we'll see what kind of answers
    we can come up with.
    
    Dan

	Let's talk about tools. Pick up an artical on choppers and somebody 
will start telling you about the evils of unbalenced heads, clutch shafts, 
you  name it. Vibration really is a bug-a-boo for RC copters. Dang things will 
shake themselves to death. It's not that hard to avoid vibration though. It
just requires a lot of patience and a couple of tools.

	The first tool to get to know is a dial-indicator. Physically, the tool
looks like a round base topped by a dial that usually reads off in .001 or .0005
increments. Sticking out of the side of the base is a shaft. Sliding in and out
of the outer shaft is an inner shaft that connects to the dial on one end and
a round ball on the other. By pressing the ball up against a rotating object you
can meassure how much run out the object has. On an engine/fan/clutch set-up
like the Cobra uses, anything over .002 is considered bad.

	Dial-indicators are handy little beasts but they do cost a bit. If you'd
like to see what one could do for you without spending the bucks, take your old
field service buddy out to lunch. Ask him about checking out either the RM03 or
RP06 carriage way alignment kit overnight. Both kits have dial-indicators in 
them. The one in the RM03 kit is just about the ideal size for the things we 
need to do. The one in the RP06 is larger and a bit more clumsy to use but it
will do the job. 

	If your copter has the engine/fan/flywheel/clutch/starter cone set up
like the Cobra, there's a little tool that cost nothing to make and comes in
very handy. Take a piece of bar stock as wide or wider than the fly wheel.
Now mark three holes. The first hole is in the center of the bar and should 
have the same diameter as the inside hole of the fly wheel. The other two
holes should match up with the mounting holes in the fly wheel for the clutch.
Assemble the engine/fan/fly wheel assembly and mount the tool on the flywheel
with the screws normaly used to mount the clutch. Now when you go to tighten 
down the prop nut you have something to hang onto. Beats wrappin a wrag around
the fan and trying to hold on.

	Last tool for me to mention is the Hy-point balancer. When I started
out, I would get the blades all balanced out like the book instructions said
and then throw them on the head. I could see the copter shake when it was in
the air. I tried a lot of different ways of blade balancing  and finally
was shown how to use the hy-point balancer. The key to the whole procedure is to
balance the entire head assembly instead of just the rotor blades. I've got
a hy-point balancer now, but I use to just take a mason jar and level it out.
Then I'd use a spare main shaft across the top of the jar with the head on
one end a counter weight on the other. There's been some good articals in past
issues of RCM on this procedure. The only other thing  I can add is to double
ckeck that not only are your rotor blades the same length, but also check that
the flybar is equal too.

Dan
                                                            

    You really don't need a full-blown dial indicator.  From what you
    described you have a $100+ indicator, measures from 0 to 1" at about
    .001" accuracy.  Well, there's an even better tool made just for
    that purpose, called a runout indicator.  
    
    A runout indicator has a dial about 3/4" in diameter, and does not have
    a plunger. Instead, it has a body about the size of a pinky-finger,
    with a small probe extending from the end.  The probe isn't a plunger,
    it doesn't slide in.  Instead it is pivoted up and down, and can
    measure only about +- .050" displacement.  A little lever under the
    dial changes the spring from push-up to push-down.
    
    Runout indicators are a LOT more accurate than dial indicators,
    dollar for dollar.  I bought a cheap $18 Fowler indicator, and it
    is rated at .0005" gauranteed.  It actually is considerably more
    accurate, not being worn out and all...  .0005 is on the order of
    the bending induced in a 1/2" steel shaft by the warmth of your
    hand on one side.
    
    A runout indicator also can fit a lot of places that the dial indicator
    won't fit.  This may be very handy on a crowded copter.
    
    Remember- you can measure runout by turning the shaft slowly with
    your fingers, and you can also measure bearing play (or wear) by
    pressing the shaft laterally.  Be careful not to confuse the two.
    
    Some people call runout indicators "center finders".  They're often
    used on lathes for this purpose.  
                    

    Forget that nonsence stuff. This event deserves  a hearty
    congratulation! I'd like to do that figure 8 with my Cobra except...
    the sun don't shine, the wind do blow, and the rain's been fallin.
    If the weather ever cooperates long enough for me to get some more
    practice flights in I'm not that far off from doing it myself.
    
    Dan

    Congratulations Bob.  I do the figure 8 but I only get 75 to 100
    feet away at the most.  I do somewhat better with my Champion than
    I do with the Scout, but that is because I haven't put the first
    scratch on the Scout yet, and am reluctant to do so.  
    Ken

	There seem to be 4 main actions in performing a circuit.

	1. Grit your teeth.
	2. Clench you buttocks.
        3. Open you wallet.
	4. And go for it......


	   The transition back to a hover is a real bitch. I don't have
	   autorotation on by Bell, does that make it easier?. I didn't
	   have Idle-up on either, I guess that would help....

	   Is that the Scout 60 you've got.. I've read some good things
	   about it.... What do you think of it.... I was planning a 
	   Schluter as my next Heli, well I was till I comitted myself
	   to the Bell 222....  I think the appearance of a scale heli
	   coming in from a long circuit to a close in hover takes some
	   beating.... 

	  cheers

	 bob                                                    

	Has anybody managed to master nose-in hovering?....
	I started to turn mine around and suddenly my brain
	ceased to control my fingers... it stayed in the air
	for nose in for aproaching hmmm 2 seconds... Another
	new pair of blades... I haven't tried it again...

	One trick sems to be to trim in some backwards cyclic 
	so it flies backwards, then follow it.... Similar principal
	to forward trim when you first start out....

	cheers

	bob

    Hearty Congrats!!
    
    
    And by the way....
    

    WHAT'S A BICYCLE CLIP???

Ok you rotating knuckle heads, impress me with sustained knife edge flight.

Get out of that one Bob.

Seriously I am impressed and would love to give it a whirl myself but the $$$$ 
and more $$$$$ puts the meager Digit family man off.

John.

	re .-1




			Smartarse!!!!!!

    bob,
    
    I would like to remind you the props are cheaper than egg-beater
    blades. 
    
    Me, i'm gonna stick to fixed wing type of flying machine.
    
    BTW, what are u doing up so late ??
    
    md

    re .15
    
    Do Sustained knife edge landings count?  :-)
    

    re: .14
    
    Go on Frank, I'll bite...even if you are kidding!
    
    Just in case you're not, it's a bit of sprung metal you wrap around
    your leg to stop your trousers getting into the chain of a push-bike.

    
    Chadd, How about something hard. How about doing a 540 stall turn
    with your plane.
    As far as cost they don't cost any more that any competition set
    up be it racing,pattern or scale. The radios are about the same,
    The engines are about the same, and if you added up all of the 
    goodies that go into a plane the total cost would be about the same.
    One thing I've noticed is that with the .28 sized choppers a crash
    is actually cheaper that a crash with a trainer. You simply disassemble
    the chopper and buy the bent/brakes parts. Usually about the price
    of the trainer kit. One good thing however is that every time your
    forced into a rebuild the chopper comes out better because you have
    gained in knowledge and it doesn't weight any now that it did when
    it was new.
    On a serious note I brke the rear tranny off mine sunday. Trying
    to walk the dog with the tail into the wind I got balloned up about
    three feet just as I had added back cyclic. Then in an instant the
    gust was gone and I didn't get on the forward cyclic fast enough.
    Price one rear gearbox and a set of rear rotor blades. I ordered
    the gearbox from Circus Hobbies and hope to get it sometime next
    week. I also ordered a set of rear and main blades from Tru-spin.
    I figure that if I have to replace the plastic rear rotor blades
    then I'd just as soon go to the wood blades. Perhaps I can get the
    tail to be more responsive.
    
    						Tom
    
    Dufresne,  Interested in choppers?? I have a Shuttle for sale.
    
    
    						Tom

    Bob,
    That is a Scout 60 that I have.  I have found it to be much more
    sensitive than my Champion.  I would recommend it but would also
    recommend that it have exponential settings on the pitch and roll
    since the mixing for the collective does not have provisions
    for adjusting the sensitivity.  It is extremely responsive, probably
    at least partially due to its light weight.  It is about 1 pound
    lighter than the Champion.
    
    Ken
   
    

    re .-1: Choppers? Moi ?? Hell no!! I've got my hands full and besides,
    I prefer jets. With my habit/prpensity of having things break all
    around me and the fact that there are more moving parts in a
    helicopter, this sounds to me like a garanteed path to finacial
    ruin. I'm already close to the edge (remember my son's latest ?)
    
    md

	re .20


		I dissagree... A competitive helicopter cost an
	extrordinarily large amount of money.... Fibre Glass blades
	are in the region of 60+ pounds.. A bent tuned pipe some
	50 pounds.... Giro, lots of pounds.  Then you need a decent head.
	The heli versions of engines are normally more expensive than
	their fixed wing counterparts, similarly heli radios....

	The learning process with a heli is more expensive, once you get
	past the initial hovering stage. it's not till you start flying
	around that the real crashs start... 

	Certainly in the UK most of the top fliers are connected with the
	model trade/manufacturers. Crashing's a lot less painfull when
	the parts are supplied.... "oh dear i've crashed, let's start up
	another one and try again" 

	
        cheers

	bob                                                      
	

    I am about to mount the servos in a Schluter HeliBoy and would
    appreciate any words of wisdom as to initial adjustments, ammounts
    of 'throw', whatever. I seem to recall reading such a note within
    the last yesr or so, but all attempts to locate it have failed.
    I tried dir/title=heli/copter/chopper/etc and dir/author=<anyone
     who seems to have a copter>. No joy. I remember it was a fairly
    lengthy note (reply?) of the form (a) adjust things to these initial
    states, (b) operate/observe whatever, (c) adjust this-or-that, etc.
    
    Anyone remember seeing it, or better, authoring it who could give
    me a pointer??
    
    Tnx, Jimi.
    
    p.s. If it was my imagination, would you experts care to shed some
    light on how I can best set it up initially so I can fire it up
    and begin blade tracking/balancing/etc?? Similarly, any info regarding
    initial settings for the 1001 adjusters/trims/mixes on the
    transmitter???
    
    Tnx again...

    Jimi,
    
    Try searching for dir/author="day".  If memory serves, Bob Day once
    authored a lengthy diatribe on chopper setup some time ago.  I could
    be rememberin' wrong but it's worth a try.    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Well, the HeliBoy is coming on real good. I am now in the final
    stages of mounting the servos and the control rods. One departure
    I made from the plans was to utilize a separate (5th) servo for
    the collective, rather than the original Schluter design of 1 servo
    controlling both the collective/throttle. As the Century VII radio has
    lotsa mix/tweak capability between gas/collective I figured I'd
    use it.
    
    I also put in an order to Robbe for a buch of parts/tools (e.g.
    pitch gauge, balance weights,etc) and a BELL 222 fuse kit. The latter
    will stay inits box until I've gotten good enough at flying the
    thing to chance putting a real sharp boby on it!
    
    Anyhow, a coupla (very novice) questions if I may...
    
    1) The gyro instructions say to put it 'as close to the CG as
    possible'. It seems to me the best place would be directly under
    the main rotor shaft, maybe taped underneath the frame. Any better
    idedas?
    
    2) Where to 'put' the RX antenna? Some pictures I saw show it coming
    out of the 'cockpit', down underneath the frame and then out back
    to be secured to the end of the tail boom. Seem right?
    
    3) I am unclear as to the best minimum M/R pitch setting. On a 'real'
    one it is set slightly negative so as to permit autos. (In fact
    it is set such as to give a 1500 fpm descent with about a 300lb
    crew load. I assume it needs to be slightly negative, but how much?
    Trial and error? Any ideas?
    
    4) Re the engine. Does it simply 'suck' fuel from the tank, or does
    the tank need to be pressurized in some way (say from the exhaust)?
    Unfortunately, my engine user guide is written in French/German
    (no English) so the starting/operation of the engine is somewhat
    mysterious to me so far...
    
    All info much appreciated, Jimi.

>    1) The gyro instructions say to put it 'as close to the CG as
>    possible'. It seems to me the best place would be directly under
>    the main rotor shaft, maybe taped underneath the frame. Any better
>    idedas?
    
My friend Cam took a GMP gyro and mounted it on a simple test rig. To find
out where the gyro was most sensitive. The results surprised me. For the 
GMP gyro to work best, it needs to be mounted 3 inches away from main shaft.
You might consider testing this out for yourself, its easyto do if your 
interested.

>    2) Where to 'put' the RX antenna? Some pictures I saw show it coming
>    out of the 'cockpit', down underneath the frame and then out back
>    to be secured to the end of the tail boom. Seem right?
    
Take some 12 gauge coper wire and strip the insulation off carefully. Now
take the insulation and mount it to the bottom of the copter some how. On my
Cobra I lead the antenna out the bottom of the canopy, thru the insulation which
is mounted to the skids, and then tied it with a rubber band to the tail skid.
Makes for a neat application and the rubber band breaks it you somehow snag the
antenna.

>    3) I am unclear as to the best minimum M/R pitch setting. On a 'real'
>    one it is set slightly negative so as to permit autos. (In fact
>    it is set such as to give a 1500 fpm descent with about a 300lb
>    crew load. I assume it needs to be slightly negative, but how much?
>    Trial and error? Any ideas?
    
Set it the pitch to zero. You don't need to worry about auto's yet. With
negative pitch a beginner tends to slam the copter into the ground when he
cuts power. 

>    4) Re the engine. Does it simply 'suck' fuel from the tank, or does
>    the tank need to be pressurized in some way (say from the exhaust)?
>    Unfortunately, my engine user guide is written in French/German
>    (no English) so the starting/operation of the engine is somewhat
>    mysterious to me so far...

Run a line from the muffler preasure tap to the tank. The tank will have three
connections. A fill line, a preasure line from the muffler, and a feed line
to the engine.

                                                        /     \ /
Dan Eaton - Demented                                   /      / \ 
            Dragonfly                                 /       #  
            Pilot                                    /        #
                                                    /        #
                                                   \       # 
                                                  //@@@ #
                                                 / l @##  .  
                                                /   #@   .
                                               /        .
                           @                  /       \.
                          _/\
                            /\_
                            l 
                                                       
    

    Understood -- many thanks!
    
    Jimi.

    Jimi,
    I agree with most of Dan's comments.  However, I don't think I would
    worry about the most efficient place to locate the gyro, since you
    can very the sensitivity to have it react like you want.  On my
    antennae, I run the lead through the back of the bulkhead, on through
    a piece of nyrod that is mounted in 2 ball link connectors that
    I use for a guide.  On the exit of the nyrod, I tie a small knot
    in antenna to prevent it from comming out.  I have had the antenna
    get caught in the main rotor of my mini-boy once and it really made
    a mess.
    
    I didn't see any reply for the main rotor pitch or tail rotor pitch.
    They both depend somewhat upon engine speed, but a good ballpark
    to start with is 4-5 degrees for the main rotor at half throttle
    and probably about 8-10 degrees for the tail. (The tail also
    varies according to the length of the tail rotor, how much tail
    fin obstructs the tail rotor, etc.
    
		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    Things continue to progress well. Most of the (6) servo rods are
    now connected to their appropriate places. I'm taking my time with
    it so as to try to get it right first time. While connecting the
    throttle linkage I hit what I thought might be a problem -- so I
    figured I'd ask...
    
    I cannot find any combination of rod length/servo arm hole/whatever
    that lets me get exactly 0 and 100% throttle, given the servo travel.
    Equally, I cannot find a range/trim for the throttle on the
    transmitter. Accordingly, I have adjusted the linkage so as to ensure
    I can get exactly 0%, but with this adjustment I can only get approx
    85-90% throttle at max servo travel. Is this a problem (i.e. will
    I need more throttle to fly it OK)?? I assume it isn't, as hovering
    (theoretically) takes the most 'power', and hover power is at about
    50% (right?)...

    Tnx, Jimi.

	You should aim for a 60% throttle 40% collective at lift off.
	This should correspond to half stick...

	You'll probably never need full throttle...

	cheers

	bob

    
    	It should be a simple matter to make a servo arm out of one
    of the "wheel" servo arms that come with any radio. This should
    yield as big an arm as you would ever need. I kind of disagree
    about the power. I'm a beleave that power + light weight make any
    aircraft better flyers. 
    
    	Do you have any training gear??  Have you bench run the engine??
    Did you dial indicate the fan,clutch,starter shaft assemble? Did
    you balance the rotor and tail blade heads??
    
    						Tom

    
    	Last night when I got back home I way delighted to find a package
    for me from the up'sman.  It was my new Scoot60 from Robbe hobbies.
    As I had mentioned in another note I had won a 33% off value from
    Robbe and had sent in my money for the Scout. No Scoot is not a
    typo. Seems that this is the name given to a Scout by those that
    are flying them in the area.  So I checked it over and read the
    assemble instructions while I watched the Bruin's game. "GREAT GAME"
    The assembly of the head,tail servos and collective is nearly identical
    to the Junior I presently have. The frame set up is a little different.
    	Well, after the game was over at 10:30 I had to start with the
    assembly. I worked until about 20 of 12:00 and have the side frames
    together. The langing gear assembled and installed and the tank
    mount installed. Following the instructions anyone with a limited
    mechanical aptitude can assemble this new generation of chopper.
    The next step is to assemble the main shaft and it's bearing guides
    and then install this into the frames. I would enpect that this
    chopper will be ready for paint in about 8-10 hrs.  I'm still waiting
    for the engine and I have to drop off my fam to a mechinist buddy
    of mine so he can open up the hole from 1/4" to 8mm. I am then planning
    of Hi Pionting the fan,clutch bell,main gear,rotor head and taol
    rotor. I have learned that eliminatin of vibration starts in the
    building of a chopper similar to trimming in a plane starting during
    building. I will build evenything I can prior to the engine coming
    in. I know that the wood part of the kit alone will take me 2hrs
    to complete and then it will have to be painted. I think I'm going
    to opt for a clear on the wood.  
    
    						Regards
    
    						Tom

    re .31 (Bob)
    
    OK, I'll try 60/40 at 1/2 stick as the initial setting. Maybe testing
    will dictate slight changes. That should be easy with the pitch
    curve adjustments on the Century VII.
    
    re .32 (Tom)
    
    I'd like to get full throttle travel -- however, every combination
    of arms/holes/etc I've tried so far either gives me fractionally
    too much travel (hurt servo or bent rod), or fractionally too little.
    I opted for the 'too little' and made sure that zero throttle was
    at zero stick. Max servo travel gets me about 90% throttle.
    
    Training gear? Yup -- assembled it last night. A nice w-i-d-e set
    for 061 motored copters.
    
    Bench run engine? No.
    
    Dial indicate clutch/shafts/etc? Yup -- max variation over a full
    rotation was 0.002 in (2 thou) on the outer clutch can.
    
    Balance M/R & T/R. Not yet. Various 'tools' are due from Robbe via
    UPS today (balancer, pitch gage, flybar weights, etc), so that sould
    be tonite's job(s).
    
    All servo rods are now connected and initial center point/range
    adjustments made, so bar the above jobs it's about ready for fire-up
    and blade tracking checks...
    
    Tnx again guys for all the advice.
    
    Jimi.

    On a lite note, a short story. It concerns a student copter pilot
    (who shall remain nameless) during his early days of training --
    around the time that he could recognize a swashplate 2 times out
    of 3. On a good day. The early training sylabus calls for lots and
    lots and lots of hovering practice. Until that skill is mastered,
    the fledgling pilot cannot proceed to more interesting maneuvres.
    There comes a time during these early practice sessions that the
    instructor allows the student to 'have' all 4 controls (cyclic,
    pedals, collective, throttle) and attempt to juggle them in some
    coordinated fashion, with a view to "hovering" the ship for more
    and more extended periods of time. Our student (who we shall call
    Jim) has just finished his first such practice session and is sitting,
    sweat-soaked, in the copter during the engine cool-down period.
    
    His instructor congratulates him...
    
    INS: That was real good
    
    JIM: What do you mean? Hovering implies staying in one place. We
         visited both taxiways, the ramp and just about every corner
         of the field!
    
    INS: That's OK, I have a proven training method
    
    JIM: What's that?
    
    INS: We'll just keep practicing in smaller and smaller fields...
    

    Jimi, If I understood you correctly your getting .002 inches of
    runout at the clutch. did you check for runout at the top of the
    starter shaft?
    
    Frankly .002 at the clutch isn't good enough. Try for less.
    What we have found is that measuring at the fans edge and the clutches
    edge indicate amounts of runout. Measuring what you would think
    is runout at the top of the starter shaft is really an indication
    of how flat the fan/clutch is sitting on the engine. It's wobble.
    Like a worped platter. The last EXcell we put together has .00085
    runout at the clutch and .001 of wobble at the  top of the starter
    shaft. Needless to say the chopper is smooth.
    
    
    
    						Tom

    Sorry Tom, I missed a zero out. I will re-check my dial gage
    graduations and re-measure (and also check the starter shaft). Anyways,
    max difference over a full turn was 2 small graduations on the dial;
    where 360 deg on the dial has 10 big ticks with 5 small ticks in
    between each big tick (technical huh?). So I guess (and will re-check)
    that means 0.0004.
    
    Re your question concerning engine bench test. Is it a problem if
    it has not been run prior to installation? As far as I know, nothing
    has been adjusted since the motor came out of the box.

	re.34


	Throttle should close at zero stick and the trim right back.

	
	bob

    
    I usually like to run the engine on a tand for a couple,three,four
    tanks of fuel. Then it's ok to set the highand low idles and work
    on the settings for a smooth throttle transition.
    
    
    
    I worked for a short time late last night again on the Scoot 60.
    I assembled the main gear and hogh pointed it. No problems what
    so even. It's now installed in the chopper. Along with this I got
    the power takeoff for the tail completed,installed and the boom
    on. I don't have my engine as of yet so I haven't set up my fan/clutch.
    
    On the Heliboy; Is the clutch bolted to the fan and is the clutch
    seperated from the fan like a Miniboy?
    
    Tonight if I get the time it will be spent on the tail gearbox and
    tail blade assemblies.
    
            						Tom
    
    P.S. I'm thinking of paintng it "Red" like the one on the box.

    The HeliBoy appears ready to go! For the curious, the cost to date
    (original prices) is about $1400 -- there again, this is not a small
    copter. The Robbe Jet Ranger fiberglass body (to be fitted at a
    suitable time later) adds another $260. I also got a couple of spare
    pairs of True Spin M/R blades "just in case" :-) . At this point
    I would appreciate some of your collective wisdom (no pun intended).
    
    1) Is it 'safe' for me (a total novice) to fire-up the motor with
    a view to breaking it in (nothing more); or should I wait until
    the whole thing has been checked out by an expert? [ I am trying
    to hook-up with Ken Colby ]. I am quite prepared to wait and be
    safe.
    
    2) If it is safe (or just to satisfy my yen to learn), what is the
    best way to fire up one of these motors? [ I have read every note
    I could fine on 'engines', including #178 concerning break-in ].
    Do I just apply power to the plug and spin the starter with the
    throttle closed? Does it need priming, and if do how?
    
    3) Do I need a tach to set the idle, or to help find the best mixture
    setting (after the initial rich break-in ?
    
    Sorry if these are dumb questions -- I could setup the 4bbl Holleys
    on my 455 ci Pontiac real good, but I've never run one of these
    'little' nitro motors before...
    
    A few details, if they help:-
    
    Engine is a Hirtenberger HP61F with a Heloball muffler that I have
    added a presure fitting to. Glowplug is type 4520 w/ idle bar, with
    a head lock (remote connector) fired by a Ni-starter. Fuel is K&B
    500H (colored heli fuel).

    Tnx & rgds, Jimi.

    I cannot suggest that you start the engine up without anyone else
    there. Not that you're not capable but rather ther engine uses a
    fan to blow air over the cylinder. I'd like to see the helo hovering
    to assure myself that sufficient air is flowing to cool the head.
    
    There is a big difference between a helo that is set up dry on a
    bench and a helo that is set up and hovering. Your first sessions
    will be taken up with fine tuning the throttle/pitch relationship
    to get sufficient power and pitch to hover. Also there is trimming
    the tail rotor, cyclic and tracking the blades. All of this should
    be done by someone experienced before the helo is turning over to
    the novice chopper pilot. Without this being done you're just putting
    yourself further behind the eight ball.
    
    Starting procedure for me is typically;
    
    	1,Turn on transmitter,receiver and gyro
    	2,Spin over motor for app 15 sec.
    	3,Choke engine by spinning over engine while covering the exhaust
    opening in the muffler. This takes app 5-10 sec. Until a fine mist
    can be seen when your finger is removed.
    	4,Attach glow driver to engine and spin engine over. Make sure
    that the high idle/idle hold switch on the transmitter is in the
    off position. Also have a firm hold of the main rotor head. I have
    found that using a remote starter glow jack has required a variable
    glow driver system on my powerpanel. I take it this is due to the
    resistance of the wire used.
    
    
    
    							Tom

>< Note 366.40 by TWOMCH::IBBETT "B/OIS Performance Group" >
...
>    Engine is a Hirtenberger HP61F with a Heloball muffler that I have
>    added a presure fitting to. Glowplug is type 4520 w/ idle bar, with

How did you add a pressure fitting?  Can I buy a pressure fitting at my
local hobby store?

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    Kay, yes you can buy a pressure fitting at the local hobby shop.
    
    
    Scoot 60 update........................................
    
    Spent most of my free late hour time over the weekend working on
    the Scoot. Presently I have the frames all done,tank installed,
    rear rotor and rotor drive complete and temp. installed. Main
    gear installed,Cyclic and head assembled and installed. The head
    will have to be removed and have the baldes installed and high pointed.
    All of the wood parts were cut out last night and sanded. I still
    have to cut out the inside sections of a couple of the wood parts.
    This should happen tonight and I should get the wood assembled.
    I have two grips with this kit. One is a general grip about all
    chopper kits and the second is a problem I've found. My first grip
    with all chopper kits is that it seems that chopper kit manufacturers
    need to talk to aircraft kit manufacturers to learn how to cut wood
    parts. They all require you to either cut out the parts completely
    or finish the job they have started. In the Schluter kits the wood
    parts are die cut but only 3/4 of the wood has been penetrated.
    Your required to use an exacto knife (very difficult) or a scroll
    saw to complete the cuts. Choppe maunfacturers should get their
    shit together on the wood parts or subcontract them to an aircraft
    kit manufacturer who can hand cut and sand the parts.
    The second grips and a problem I've found with this particular kit
    is that when I inspected the blades I found that both are bowed
    about 1/3 from the blade holder. I called Robbe today and Vince
    the chopper manager was more than helpful. He indicated that they
    (Robbe) expected a shipment in on wednesday and that he would Blue
    Label a set of blades to me. So if everything workd out I may just
    fly this chopper this coming sunday. Cross your fingers.
    
    						Tom 

    Re .41 -- Tnx for the info Tom. I will wait for some help before
    trying anything...
    
    Re .42 -- Sure Kay, I got mine at Hobby Emporium in Nashua NH, although
    I guess any well stocked store would have them. The Heloball muffler
    has a 'flat spot' which is perfect for mounting the pressure fitting.
    Cos I couldn't get a spanner inside I had to carefully drill a hole
    to the right size so I could just thread the fitting into the muffler
    and get a tight fit. If you can't get a fitting locally I wuld be
    glad to pick up 1 or 2 for you and mail them. They cost around a
    dollar each...
    
    Jimi.

    Re .36
    
    Tom, your advice re the runout 'provoked' me into tearing down the
    engine/fan/clutch/etc and trying again. It was good advice. I had
    figured that 0.002 was good enough (the instructions said max runout
    of 1/10 mm (approx 0.0039), but it stands to reason that the least
    runout achievable must be for the best. Anyhow, about 3 hours effort
    last night yielded a max runout of less than 0.001 at the fan, clutch
    and the entire length of the starter shaft. A lot of effort, but
    *well* worth it. I appologize for writing eroneous info in .37.
    Next time I will keep my mouth shut until I am sure of what I'm
    talking about...
    
    As an aside, I learned a real good way of re-inserting the whole
    assembly back into the copter, getting the right alignment and the
    right gear backlash. I bought a casette tape titled "Setup for the
    HeliBoy" by Walt Spinard (sp?), who I believe is/was something to
    do with Minature Aircraft Supply. Very good tape, full of personal
    experience which, at times, conflicts with the instructions in the
    assembly manual. I used his sugested method which worked perfectly
    first time. Although it is somewhat HeliBoy specific, I will precis
    it below, as it may well apply to other copters...
    
    Having setup the runout, re-attach the engine mounts to the engine,
    but leave them loose. Insert the assembly back into the frame
    (carefully, so as not to bang anything and ruin the setup). Slide
    the 6mm washer and upper/lower bearing blocks onto the start shaft
    and pass them down into the frame. Insert the bolts loosely through
    the frame/blocks. Attach the starter cone to the shaft and pull
    up the cluth/fan/motor assembly as far as it will go. The 6mm washer
    ensures that the outer clutch can will not bind on the main shaft
    drive gear. Secure the cone with the 2 socket screws. The assembly
    is now hanging in place supported by the cone resting on the top
    bearing block. There is *no* stress or tension anywhere. Now insert
    the bolts through the engine mount to the frame. Leave them fairly
    loose. Now move the assembly fore/aft as needed to setup the gear
    backlash. Carefully tighten the top/bottom bearing block bolts and
    re-check backlash. If all is OK, finally tighten the motor mount
    bolts through the frame. All is now installed, adjusted and tight.
    There is/was no stress or mis-alignment anywhere.
    
    This method works great! Everything now spins freely and feels real
    good. Incidentally, re your question in .39, yup -- the HeliBoy
    has the same engine/fan/clutch connection/setup as the MiniBoy.

    
    One other notable suggestion Walt makes concerns throttle/radio
    adjusment, which I would appreciate you folks opinion on...
    He sets up his radio/throttle link such that at low collective and
    high trim the motor starts and/or the blades just start to spin.
    At lo coll/mid trim the motor idles and the blades stop. At lo coll
    and lo trim the motor stops. His 'argument' is that you should have
    *total* control over the copter from the radio, including the ability
    to stop the rotor (appropriate idle speed) and stop the motor (throttle
    totally closed). Seems good to me -- what do you think??
    
    He also suggests a number of other things for 'beginers' :-
    
    1) Set the max fore/aft swashplate movement to +/- 5 deg (Schluter
    says 10 deg)
    2) Set the max lateral to +/- 7 (again, Schluter says 10)
    3) Balance the ship to be nose heavy -- back of skids lift off about
    1 inch before the front with full fuel tank.
    4) Adjust the M/R to have the leat possible coning angle.
    
    The above should make things easier for novice pilots (?).
    
    Again (Tom), thanks for all the advice...
    
    Jimi.

    
    I would agree with number 3 if your fuel tank is mounted in front
    of the main shaft. What I have heard and seen is that if you pick
    up a chopper from the main shaft and the tail hangs low the chopper
    is more stable. Opposite from an airplane.
    
    Glad to hear you got the clutch/fan alignment better. Make sure
    you Hi point the main and tail rotors. In the scout I have even
    Hi Pionted the man gear and clutch bell.
    
    Monday night I ordered a muffler for my Enya 60 XF III. I got the
    new semco muffler. Supposed to be much better quality that previous
    one assembled. Has anyone heard that Semco was bought out and is
    now run by some other individual?
    
    						Tom

    Re: .-1, Tom,
    
    Hadn't heard about the Semco buyout but that sorta' thing seems
    to happen all the time so I don't doubt it.
    
    Example:  John Tatone no longer has anything to do with "Tatone."
    John's _new_ company is called "J-Tec."  CB Associates was recently
    bought up by "Tatone" (not J-Tec) and Great Planes and Dyna-Flite
    (formerly Mark's Models) have bought up virtually every independent
    kit manufacturer there was, JEMCO, Andrews and [the old] Bridi among
    them.  Keeping track of all this would be a full-time job!
                                     
      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    [ A little levity... ]
    
The thing is, helicopters are different from airplanes. 

An airplane by its nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too
strongly by unusual events, or by a deliberately incompetent pilot -- it will 
fly.

A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of 
forces and controls working in opposition to each other. If there is any 
disturbance in this delicate balance, the helicopter stops flying. Immediately 
and disastrously.

There is no such thing as a gliding helicopter.

This is why being a helicopter pilot is so different from being an airplane 
pilot and why, in general, airplane pilots are open, clear-headed, bouyant 
extroverts.

Helicopter pilots are broody, introspective anticipators of trouble. They know 
if something bad has not happened, it is about to...

					(Harry Reasoner)

    
    Yesterday I brought in my engine,fan and clutch to work. I used
    the surface plate we have to check the runout.
    
    So last night was a light building session. I ran into two problems.
    The first was that the engine mounting plates supplied with the
    kit did not fit the Enya XFIII. This really steamed me as Robbe
    markets the Enya XF 60III as the engine to be used in the Scout.
    The second problem was that I was missing twelve 3M x 10M bolts
    required to hold the started shaft baring blocks. I'll go to the
    hobby shop and pick up some bolts from the car department tonight.
    I primed and painted the horizontal stab. It came out great. The
    red Formula U really covered well. I got three UPS orders in yesterday.
    The muffler,antenna,Rotor sport Blades and my 4001 servos. Tonight
    I hope to sand the canopy,glue it, prime and spray it with red.
    I also need to do the vertical stab. 
    One modification I have done is to use steel balls in the ball links
    rather than the brass that is supplied in the kit. The Semco muffler
    look of exceptional quality. It is predrilled in two locations for
    a pressure tap. The give you a pressure tap and a bolt to be used
    to seal one of the predrilled pressure tap holes.
    
    Has anyone ever used a base loaded antenna? Comments?
    
    
    						Tom

>< Note 366.48 by CRAZY8::IBBETT "B/OIS Performance Group" >
...
>An airplane by its nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too

Not mine.

>There is no such thing as a gliding helicopter.

What about auto rotating - what about auto gyros - what about that guy
in California who made an model auto gyro glider?

>This is why being a helicopter pilot is so different from being an airplane 
>pilot and why, in general, airplane pilots are open, clear-headed, bouyant 
>extroverts.

Actually most non military pilots are Doctors and Lawyers who don't now
hot to check their oil.

>Helicopter pilots are broody, introspective anticipators of trouble. They know 
>if something bad has not happened, it is about to...

Perhaps but the accident rate for Helicopters is much better than fixed wing
aircraft both in terms of hours/crash and hours/death.  When planes crash
(or land badly) they do so at 100 MPH plus with lots of people on board.  When
helicopters crash they usually auto rotate down with very few folks on board.
I used to read the U.S. Navy accident reports every week.

I do agree however that helicopters are more difficult to fly than fixed wing
aircraft and that they are MUCH less stable.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    to quote a friend a couple offices over who has flown choppers for
    the army, reffering to fixed wing aircraft pilots: "yeah, the're
    the ones with the restricted license... They get to do everyting
    a chopper does except hover !!!.  This apparently steams the hell
    of the poor buggers..
    
    md

    Chuck,Kay;
    
    		I think it might be off of the subject matter to continue
    the discussions between the two of you in this particular note.
    Perhaps a note dedicated to your common subject is in order.
    
    						Tom

    better still, move to SOAPBOX or FLYiNG conferences..

    
    You'll get a lot of action there
    
    
    md

    Sorry if I provoked anything -- maybe I forgot the smiley face.
    Anyone who knows me also knows my total alegiance to rotorcraft.
    Besides, anything that relies on forward motion to keep it in the
    air makes me nervous... :-)
    
    Anyhow, the 'Baby should get her maiden flight (most likely just
    tuning and trimming) early this week if the weather is kind.
    
    Now lesee, what haven't I checked at least 10 times...
    
 ------+------
    (Z[]>=====*  Jimi.
  `--'-`---  

    
    I'd planned on flying the Scoot 60 yesterday. This did not happen.
    Saturday threw a wrench into my plans when I spend the entire day
    getting and replacing a hot water heater. Woke up saturday to the
    sound of leaking water. All is OK now. Yesterday I balanced,cut
    and finished my Rotosport blades. I purchased a set of these blades
    when I found that the kit one's were bowed. I should have a set
    of stock blades coming from Robbe, but as yet have not seen anything
    from UPS.  Rotosport really seems to have their shit together since
    a problem a year or so back. They seem to be the olny manufactured
    who is pushing blade technoligy ahead. Everyone else seems content
    to sit and wait. I really did like how the new blade holders went
    together......
    
    The new blade holders and molded from a reenforced plastic material
    similar to most of the plastic parts you see today. They are of
    two piece construction. The modeler is to spread CA glue on the
    inner surface of the male section and then press this into the blade.
    There are three bosses in the blade holder that engage the blade
    threw three holes. The fit is tight. Next you install the female
    section of the blade holder from the opposite side. This too is
    CA glued and the resulting blade holder fits tightly together. A
    small clamp can be utilized to squeeze the holder together until
    the glue sets. Add to this two bolts and a bushing for attachment
    of the blade to the chopper and your on your way. The blades are
    sold with a weight kit to get proper cord balance. Following the
    instructions I had no problem with this. They are covered with a
    shelf paper like material. The only think I have to do is install
    the radio. I'll do this over the next two nights and hopefully take
    the Scoot 60 for a test hop after golf on wednesday.
    
    
               
    						Tom
    					

Re 366.56
    
    >>  I'll do this over the next two nights and hopefully take
>>    the Scoot 60 for a test hop after golf on wednesday.
 
GOLF? The man has a new copter and is going to wait till AFTER golf to test
fly it? Sir, some might question your priorities! 8^)

Dan Eaton

    Flying AFTER golf AFTER work???
    Obviously a 2:30 quittin' time!!!
    I gotta get outa sales and into whatever Dan does for the company :^)

                             |                      
   \	       	         ____|____                      /   Regards,
    \________________________O_________________________/    Frank.
    

    Well wednesday may even have to wait. I got nothing accomplished
    last night. I'll have to get real dedicated to have the bird ready
    for wednesday.   Oh well.
    
    Ship looks real good in red and black...........
    Didn't get my Robbe blades yesterday. If they aren't in by wednesday
    I'm going to fire off a nastygram to Robbe.
    
    					Tom

    Tom,
    
    Ordered the Baron 28 from Circus. Just wanted to thank you and Dan
    for the help in my selection. Looking forward to getting started.
    
    Mike

    Well, after a lot of sweat, care and some good fortune we finally
    got the 'Baby in the air yesterday evening. I say 'we' because this
    success wouldn't have come about without the help, patience, skill
    and good humor of Ken Colby. My copter & I thank you, sir. I just
    hope I can become skillful enough to help someone else one day and
    'repay my debt'.
    
    The first test 'flight' was last Tuesday, however a number of things
    weren't right and we aborted -- Ken giving me a list of 6 or so
    things to fix/adjust/improve. No flying done, but much learnt. 
    
    Last night all was well. All it needed was minor tweaks to the rudder
    and a little more collective pitch and it flew real good -- at least
    Ken flew it real good. Hands-off hovering!?!?!? Nice & stable and
    no noticeable vibration (your alignment tips paid off, Tom).
    
    I had a day off today and ran about 4 tanks of fuel through it.
    Surprise! It is _just_like_hovering_a_big_one_ -- except I notice
    I am tending to forget the rudder on account of all the gryo and
    transmitter magic handling the correlation and tail compensation.
    The cyclic response seemed a little sluggish, so I tweaked the rates
    up until it felt right, i.e. I wasn't getting too far behind it.
    The first to 'flights' I just scooted it around on the ground getting
    the feel of the controls. The wide training stand is invaluable.
    Third time I put it on the grass and had enough nerve to git it
    a touch more pitch and lift it -- r-e-a-l g-e-n-t-l-y. Again, just
    like a big one in that I 'felt' it into the air, continuously
    correcting the cyclic to keep it level. Probably over correcting
    now I look back on it. By the end of the 4th tank I found I could
    keep it in the air (about a 3" hover) for maybe 30 secs until I
    got tired, and my cyclic control was much smoother. Coupla shakey
    moments, but I didn't panic and the wide stand saved me a few times!
    It took me 8 flight hours to get to hover a big one OK and I figure
    it'll be at least that many with this one. I'm gonna take it very
    slowly and try not to bend it.
    
    There is an almost indescribable feeling in having built something
    and seeing it work. Thanks to the help of some great people I got
    that feeling.
    
    Well, I'm gonna go get the tractor out now. I noticed that the 'hover
    patch' needs cutting :-) , then off to the hobby store for another
    gallon of fuel...

 ------+------
    (Z[]>=====*  Jimi.
  `--'-`---
   

    Re: .61
    Jimi,
    Congrats on your hovering.  Great feeling isn't it.
    Ken

    Things are progressing well -- I have put about a gollon of fuel
    through it by now and the motor seems nicely run-in. Hovering has
    improved such that I am now at a 3-4 foot hover (just in ground
    effect) and can keep it in the air for a good while. Still visiting
    most parts of the back garden on occations, but definite progress.
    
    Well, I knew it was only a matter of time before a crunch occured.
    Sunday, as you will recall, was 'a bit breezy'. On sober reflection
    I should have realized my limitations. A big gust caught the copter
    and changed a 3' hover into a 15' high rearward flight. To cut the
    story short, I got it mostly under control, but the 'landing' was
    kinda hard and it hit right skid first, bending the skid mounting
    bars. Nothing that couldn't be fixed fortunately. No other damage
    and nothing broken(!). Without the training stand I woulda certainly
    lunched the main blades...
    
    While I was checking it over I noticed some of the spring stel 'quick-link'
    ends were kinda sloppy, so I am now replacing all of them with ball
    links. Plus a new 'more performance' muffler is on the way from
    Robbe...
    
    This is getting to be fun!
    
 ------+------
    (Z[]>=====*  Jimi.
  `--'-`---


    p.s. Hey Tom, how goes the Scout??    

    
    The Scoot is coming along OK. I'm having a little trouble with the
    engine. I need to go to a cooler plug. Perhaps a Rosie #5. 
    
    I'd lower the hover height to 12 inches if I were you. You will
    find it harder at this height but you'll be better off. Stick with
    the 12 inch hover until you can place the chopper at will withing
    a five foot circle. Then pregress to the 2-3 ft. hover. Remember
    to hold a little forward cyclic into the head when trying to hover
    into the wind. If your hovering in gusty conditions then also be
    prepared to get off if the forward cyclic.
    
    
    
    						Tom

    Building the Baron 28 has been proceeding along nicely up to now.
    I had some minor problem cutting the tail rotor drive wire to short
    because I followed the directions but a side trip to one of the
    local hobby shops and I had another wire to try on. This time I
    think its about 1/8 of an inch to long, but I leave it for now.
    
    I still have a problem with the engine/clutch/fan that I could use
    some suggestions about solving. I have the engine in place as low
    to the ground as possible. It still causes the fan to hit the shroud
    above it and the clutch has no free movement. Thinking about it
    I could move the engine down 3/8 of an inch to another  set of holes
    in the mounting bracket and then the holes on the main frame are
    slotted 1/4 of an inch and I'm presently at the bottom. Maybe that
    will allow me to move down but not to be too low. At the same time
    it may solve my clutch sticking problems. Anyone got any thoughts?
    
    Mike
    

    Mike remember that your trying to put that .25 in so thing may not
    be perfect out of the box. Often I have seen where some slight mods
    are required. Case in point is my Scoot. I had to open up the engine
    mount holes to get the enya in. I have seen where parts of a main
    frame of a Cobra had to be ground off to get the muffler on a OS
    61. Just make sure that the final arangement all lines up true.
    
    					Tom

    I understand what your trying to say Tom in as far as other Copters
    and engine combinations are concerned, however the OS .25 is the
    recommended engine for the Baron 28. I guess its is actually called
    the Baron 20.
    
    Mike
    

    	Well I've reached a point in my construction where
a little advice could go a long way, so I hope you guys can spare it.

	I have been trying to figure out what channel on my 6FGK radio
I should use for pitch and throttle. I know the ciclik (sp?) will go 
in place of ailerons and elevator and the tail rotor will replace
the rudder, but I wonder if I should put pitch where throttle came
from and use one of those middle of the box potentiometers for thottle
or maybe I should stick to the opposite method. By opposite I mean
thottle on throttle and pitch on the potertiometer. There is one other
possibility that I can think of and that is simply running four channels
and mixing pitch and throttle at the servo. I in fact was planning to 
do that and have neutral pitch at 1/2 full throttle but thought some
advice would be helpful.

	One more thing. I know that it would be better to buy a helo
radio would be the best alternative but since at the moment that's 
not a possibility I'll save someone a responce it I mention that fact.
	
	Just to let you guys know when I put the proper connector on
the 1200ma battery, (which I have) install RX off/on and Gyro off/on
switch, throttle pitch linkage at servo, foam wrap RX and Gyro control
my baron will be ready to fire up. I'm not sure yet what I will do
about a check out but I don't have to worry about that right this second,
maybe only this weekend. 

Thanx
Mike

    Mike,
    
    
    	Realize that the rudder servo will plug into the gyro and then
    the gyro into the RX.
    
    	If you are using two servos,(one for throttle and the other
    for collective) I'd suggest that you use a "Y" aileron cable the
    connect the two and to plug it into the throttle locatio on the
    RX. An alternative would be to use one servo and run two pushrods
    off of it. One rod for throttle and the secont to the collective
    arm. You would want to adjust the rod lengths so that when the 
    tX throttle is set in the middle that the servo opens the carb us
    1/2. At this very same setting the servo also must move the collective
    arm so that you get 4.5 degrees of pitch in the main blades. In
    this way as you move the TX throttle level and change the carb setting
    to similtaniously(sp) are changing the pitch setting of the main
    blades.
    
    If you go the two servo way you must also set up the throttle to
    pitch relatinship in the same manor.
    
    						Tom

    Mike,
    I would opt for using two servos with a "Y" harness.  That way,
    if you do spring for a heli radio at a later date, you will have
    the servos and linkages all set up and it will only require having
    to plug them into a different receiver (assuming the same brand
    and possibly same type).  

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    Well, I knew I was about due for one. The 'baby is currently on
    the workbench following an un-scheduled "landing" in some long grass.
    I was down at Tewksbury on Sunday with the "copters only" guys (where
    did you get to Ken?). I had taken off the 'training gear' and was
    using the Schluter wide skids (these have almost the same footprint
    as the rods 'n' wiffle ball gear). This was a step forward -- I
    had been carefully practicing take-offs and landings and am now
    confident in using 'real skids'. Anyhow, to keep the story short,
    the ship was light on the skids and about to liftoff when a bad
    gust of wind hit. Instant 15' high rearwards flight. The next 10-20
    seconds comprised various over-corrections to a (now) nose-in ship;
    and finally an unintended impression of a weed wacker. And an
    experience to learn from.
    
    Damage looked far worse than it was -- main blades trashed, flybar
    pretzelled around the shaft, and all the swashplate-to-head links
    broken, a bent skid...and bits of grass *everywhere*. All else was 
    OK though (e.g. tail boom not bent).
    
    I have stripped and re-built most of it, including checking the
    runout on the start and main shafts, new links and new blades. It
    should be flying again tomorrow night (just have to balance the
    blades and head). Total cost was a few bucks for new links (I had
    some spare blades) and about 6 hours work.
    
    All part of the learning process, I guess... :-)

    Jim,
    Too bad about the crunch but as you said, that is part of the learning.
    My Champion is grounded for now.  I kept losing power and finally
    traced it down to stripped glow plug threads in the head.  I just
    gave up trying to get a new head or a local machine shop to insert
    a heli-coil in it.  I even tried to get the right heli-coil and
    tap from Heli-coil, but the expense is not worth it, since I would
    not save any time since I have to order it through a distributor.
    
    I sent it to Clarence Lee to have a heli-coil inserted for $7.50.
    I hope the turn-around is quick.  If anyone is interested, i will
    let them know what I think of the service.  I did try to get a
    new head from Minature Aircraft (this is the Schluter modified
    Weber), but they were on back order.
    
    As far as going to Tewksbury, I saw that it was blocked off for
    the fireworks this weekend, and I did not want to take down the
    rope and I was afraid that my car would get hung-up going over
    the curb like some of the trucks did.  
    

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    Given that I was forced (!) to re-build the head and blades, I decided
    to pay more attention to balancing this time around. Reading Mr
    Schluter's excellent book, I learnt about checking and adjusting
    the blade CG's (lengthwise and chordwise). They are now within about
    0.5mm as close as I can measure. Also the blade weights (measured
    by homebrew beam balance) are the same. I had also sanded the blades
    and applied a coat of clear poly varnish. Then successfully covered
    (again following Dieter's instructions) such that the join (overlap)
    was on the underside near the back edge. So far so good.
    
    I have also setup the flybar such that (i) the lengths are equal
    either side of the head, and (ii) the bar is balanced by adjustment
    of the position of the "stabilization" weights.
    
    Now, what all else should I do before spooling it up to visually
    check for "wobble" or un-balance? I suspect that Tom would suggest
    use of a hi-point with a heli shaft...
    
    Other than these final checks (and final tracking check) all else
    seems ready (coning angle done, pitch angles set, etc).
    
    So, is what I have done so far correct? Have I missed something?
    
    Rgds, Jimi.
    
    p.s. Ken, how's the Champ's head? All fixed??

    Jimi,
    
    	Yes your right. I'd highPiont the head. What I've been doing
    of late and it's worked slick is to highpoint the head first with
    the flybar horizontal. I adjust the weights until it balances. I
    the set the blades horizontal and find the light blade. To this
    blade I add the color strip and then again set the blades horizontal.
    I then add a piece of covering to the bottom surface of the light
    blade at it's lengthwise balance point. If the colored blade was
    the heavy one I would first try and remove some of the color strip,
    rather than add tape to the other blade. When the head balances
    I then move the weights out to the paddles and install the head.
    So far this has worked mint.
    
    I had the scoot 60 working great. I flew it wednesday night after
    golf and was very impressed. Then practicing hovering side to side
    with the chopper's side paralleling me I goofed up and stuffed it
    in. retty bad. From app 10 ft. the chopper rolled while in a hover
    to inverted. Then went in nose in. Hit, tore off the bladea and
    flipped over. Hit the tail and then rolled and landed on it's gear.
    Sacraficed was the wood cabin,canopy,antenna,boom,main shaft, blade
    holder shaft,blades,tailblades,and the collective pushrod. I have
    the boom out and the cabin section out. I took the main out last
    night. Should take a few nights to put back together.
    
    
    
    						Tom 

    Jimi,
    I do have the Champion back in the air, although I did have to change
    the engine to do it.  I got the Scout nose in and managed to crunch
    it up a little. At that time, I was trying to get a heli-coil and
    tap to replace the threads in the head of the Weber that was in
    the Champion.  I found out that Heli-coil does not make the 1/4-32
    Heli-coil as a standard product, and were not sure if it was in
    stock.  I got sick of waiting for an answer, so I finally sent the
    head to Clarance Lee.  (Service was excellent.  Head was only gone
    six days and the work looks very good.)  Since the Scout was broken
    and the engine in the Champion was sick, I have changed the engine
    in the Champion and it works fine now.  I also replaced the GMP
    gyro with the Futaba 154 mini-gyro, and it seems much more stable.
    I received the replacement parts for the Scout (blades and landing
    gear parts) and will be getting that back in the air this weekend,
    so by then I will be back up to two machines.  First you, then me,
    and then Tom.  It must be the high humidity and temperature that
    is causing the crashes of the helicopters.        

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    Ken, Jimi, Tom,
    
    C'mon, guys, be honest; you _know_ choppers don't _really_ fly anyway.
    They just make such a peculiar racket that they scare the ground
    away!  ;B^}    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Ah ha, Mr Casey, you may have something there. Maybe the new, more
    efficient muffler I had fitted lowered the 'scare' effect :-)
    
    Seriously, I agree with Ken's comment about the lousy air we have
    had of late. It sure has been harder to 'beat it into submission'.
    The poor air affects mixture requiring tweaks to the needles and
    maybe the hover throttle setting; the hover pitch also needs tweaking
    on account of the lower air density. The result on my last (crash)
    flight was that the ship didn't react to the controls as I expected,
    and my gross inexperience caused me to lose it. I am now *far* more
    careful about (i) setting my expectations as to how the ship will
    behave,and (ii) ensuring the hover pitch/gas trims will get me the
    right hover characteristics (e.g. liftoff at half stick)...
    
    Tom, thanks for detailing your hipoint procedures -- I will give
    them a try. Did you notice that hi-point now sells a long head shaft
    that removes the need for a counterweight? I got one on order...
    
    Jimi.
    
    p.s. MAN has a special copter issue this month (AUG issue, now on
    sale).

Where do you chopper folks get together and fly.  A friend and I are interested
in learning more first hand about RC choppers and would like to see them in
action and talk in realtime with RC chopper enthusiasts. 
(We both work in Maynard).


-peter

    I know of a real good place in Tewksbury MA that Ken Colby introduced
    me to. All (yup, *all*) copter activity. Best time is on the odd
    Sundays each month from about 10am until we all get fed up (about
    2pm). There's some *real* nice ships get down there (mostly Schluters)
    and a couple of the guys can _really_ fly them!
    
    Send Ken some mail (SALEM::COLBY) and I am sure he will fill you
    in on the details...

    Jimi.

    Well, the 'baby' is back in the air, complete with a new head, rods
    and blades. Still a slight shake, so I broke down and ordered a
    hi-point (yuou win, Tom!). Should arrive tomorrow, along with a
    new Futaba 'mini' gyro -- the Kraft gyro I have is not quite enough
    for the task.
    
    Also very successfully got rid of my occational radio glitches --
    replaced the antenna with a Deans base load, mounted so as to point
    out the front of the cabin (just pretend its a pitot tube!). This
    antenna works *real* well. No noticeable servo chatter anymore and
    hovering is much more stable. Once I get the hi-pointing done and
    put in the new gyro I guess I will have run out of excuses for
    any sub-standard hovering :-) -- it's hard to learn/practice when
    you are fighting the ship...

    Well, I guess that I will get my Champion back in the air in about
    three days.  I should have a new set of rotor blades in the mail
    tonight.  By the time I get the frame straightened, a new front
    landing gear strut put on, the cross shaft straightened, and
    the linkages cut and adjusted, the blades should be painted and
    covered, balanced and ready to mount.  Needless to say, the ground
    came up and smacked my chopper.  That happened Sunday at Tewksbury.
    
    Jimi, you should have seen it.  The new Futaba gyro works much better
    than the GMP/Kraft gyro worked.  Instead of crashing straight into
    the ground, this time I skidded along the ground about 30 to 50
    feet.  Thats what I get for watching the helicopter fly instead
    of controlling it.  DUMB THUMBS.  I guess that is part of the game.
    Until that point, it was my most enjoyable and successful time out
    so far so I really don't feel too bad.
    

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    Ken,
    
    At the risk of pushing it too far, I just have ta' ask:  What was
    the matter?  Wasn't yer' chopper makin' enough frightful racket
    ta' keep the ground scared away from it??  ;B^}  ;B^}
    
    BTW, Just how old _are_ you???  :B^)  

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Hey Al, does that mean if I fit a _tuned pipe_ that I can hover
    at a precise altitude?? (groan)
    
    Ken, got my Futaba mini gyro fitted-in this evening. Tnx for the
    info -- boy, is it ever sensitive compared to the Kraft. Test flight
    expected tomorrow...
    
    Jimi.
    
    p.s. appologies to the glider folks for infringing on their note,
    however I plead that an engine-out autorotation *is* silent flight...
    
    :-)

	Well it's been several weeks so I thought I'd let you 
guys know what's been happening. I had a friend at my club field
in Ware MA, do the initial test flight on my chopper only to find
that both of the cyclic servos were set in the wrong direction
for my initial flights. I then proceeded to teach myself to hover
only to reach a point after about four tanks of gas where I could 
for 30 seconds hold it in a 3 foot circle. Unfortunately after finding
out about the cyclic problems it was just like starting from scratch
again. OK. So after only 3 more tanks of gas and one day at the 
field I'm back to where I was. 
	That was all 2 weeks ago. Last week I got in a night before
supper of 3 tanks and a Sunday of 3 tanks. By the way I figure the
way my gyro hunts and the fact that that hunt translates directly
into current draw that thee tank fulls is all I dare try on an 
overnight charge until I get an expanded scale voltmeter and do
a chart of my batteries. One of those last tanks of the day
had a tail boom strike in it that was fortunately not fatal. My 
tail boom is a Fiberglas tube and it simply crushed the top 
slightly, with insignificant structural damage. I have ordered 
a new one and am awaiting its arrival.
	Last week I brought my Baron 20 to work and flew it at lunch
time on Friday. All went well except that I noticed my plastic hori-
zontal stabilizer had several crashes in it from being banged on the 
ground. I can take off OK but my landing suck. Oh well more practice.
So time to order again. Also forgot to mention last week I noticed
that all the sliding on the ground has wore out my landing gear and
I had to order 3 sets for future needs. That is clamps and the runner.
	Well that sort of bring me to date. Except to say that the
stabilizer problem may, if it doesn't take epoxy or zap, keep me
grounded until I can get replacement parts. I called Circus only
to find out that since the parts are so cheap ( $3.00 a set for 
vertical and horizontal stab kit) that even though I wanted a couple
of sets I couldn't order them because they have a $25 limit on master
charge orders. So I guess I'll either do C.O.D. (yuk) or wait.
Hope the glue works while I decide. 
	It's been fun learning however and I can now after the
first tank, hover respectably.

Mike

    Al,
    In response to your question about what happened, I am not quite
    sure, but I was in a knife edge making a turn and I was too low
    when I tried to roll out.  ( A chopper doesn't knife edge quite
    like a plane.)  I think the real problem is that I was so busy
    enjoying watching it that I didn't concentrate enough on flying
    and waited too long.
    
    As far as age, I have a couple on you.  I will hit the big "50"
    this fall.  However, I really don't feel it.  I also don't mind
    it, so I guess it is OK.

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    Mike,
    
    	Hello this is Tom Tenerowicz. I'm back from PA. but then that's
    another story.
    
    	Rather than put stock gear on the baron I'd suggest that you
    buy a set to Tuff Strut's II. They are a fiber reenforced plastic
    strut with an aluminum skid. They sell for about 25.00 a set.
    It will be a long time ebfore you wear them out. Also a stab can
    be made from some Bass wood or aluminum.
    
    	Got to go, meetings..........
    
    						Tom

    While flying the Champion on Saturday, after repairing it, I trimmed
    it out and on the second flight, I noticed that the tail was acting
    twitchy.  I would give it input and it wouldn't move, then it would
    go all of a sudden, and it just didn't act right.  After the flight,
    I checked the servo, etc, and found that the front of the rudder
    servo was floating.  The servo tray had broken and when I gave inputs,
    the front of the tray would sometimes move and sometimes it would
    just stay put, so any reaction was somewhat random.  I was thankful
    that I didn't lose the rear of the servo at the same time.  That
    would have been messy.  It is now repaired and I expect that after
    trimming the tail rotor again, that it will fly like it should.
    Hopefully not into the ground.  All's well that ends well.

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    
    I've had a problem with a part sent to me by a distributor so I've
    had to shift gears. I've stoped work on the scout 60 and turned
    my attention to the Junior. My issue is with a main shaft. Seems
    that I ordered a mainshaft and didn't get original equipment but
    rather a substitute from Yale. It was out of round and hence has
    cast me the staft,main gear,bearings and ratchet clutch. I've 
    reordered the necessary parts direct from Robbe. 
    The Junior is almost ready. Sunday night I got the head rebuilt
    and the landing gear done. Last night I finish glueing the canopy
    and the installation of the blades. I also stripped the vertical
    fin using thinner. Tonight I'll prime the anopy and fin and maybe
    even get a color coat on them. I'm changing colors to red.
    One thing I did on the canopy is to change how I reenforce the
    center seam. Typically they say to use a piece of the canopy material
    and glue it over the seam. This has always seemed a little shakey
    to me. So I tried something different and it worked. I bought some
    1 1/2 fiberglass cloth and cut a piece to size. I then ruffed up
    the canopy and then applied a little CA to the end of the fiberglass.
    This was then tacked the the inside of the canopy over the seam.
    I then applied more CA. Using a plastic bag some parts had come
    in I pressed the CA into the cloth and the cloth against the canopy.
    I then sprayed the CA/Fiberglass with accellator. Boy did that make
    a solid seam. I did a section on the top and the bottom about 4
    inches long. I think that when I do the Scoot 60's canopy I'm going
    to do the entire seam this way.
    The Junior should fly this sunday.
    
    						Tom
    

    Tried the new gyro (Futaba 154 "mini") over the weekend -- definitely
    a difference over the Kraft version. A little more tweaking and
    this baby's gonna hover without me touching the sticks :-) . It
    was so much better that I got into some "walk the dog" exercises
    after 5 mins or so hovering and felt *real* comfortable with it,
    even though I hadn't flown much in the last 4-5 weeks.
    
    However, I do have a problem and would appreciate some ideas...
    
    I am shearing the bolt that holds the main gear cog to the main shaft.
    This has now happened 4 times (both before and since the crash).
    It is, of course, a "special" M3 x 23 bolt. I therefore have had
    to "make" new ones by cutting down M3 x 30 bolts. It has to be 23mm
    long cos (i) a 20mm is to short to get a nut onto, and (ii) a 25mm
    or 30mm is too long to clear the flange on the gear cog.
    
    When fitting the latest bolt last night I noticied that the bolt
    seemed a little sloppy in the shaft hole, although an M3 bolt is
    clearly specified in the instructions. Tightening the nut compresses
    the gear hub around the shaft and all appears well.
    
    I guess that the various accelerate/decelerate actions of the shaft
    during flight may be causing the cog to slip on the shaft and
    ultimately be causing the bolt to shear...? I don't notice any
    vibration that could also be causing it.
    
    Any ideas as to how I can prevent this? It isn't expensive to fix
    each time, but it shouldn't be happening!
    
 ------+------
    (Z[]>=====* Jimi.
  `--'-`---

    

    Jim,
    I suspect that because the heli-boy doesn't have a auto-clutch,
    and is direct drive from the main shaft to the main gear, that you
    get much greater forces on the bolt holding the main gear.  There
    are two options that could help.  The first would be to check into
    the autorotation clutch (it was sold as an option for the heli-boy,
    if i remember correctly) and the second would be to try an M4 bolt,
    cut down.  If you go the second route, select a drill size that
    fits snug on the M4 bolt.  That will prevent the gear from starting
    to rotate on the shaft.  If it doesn't start to rotate, the shear
    force on the bolt will be much less.

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    Right Ken, that's the conclusion I was reaching. I'm gonna order
    the auto parts from Copters Unlimited tomorrow -- new main shaft,
    sprag clutch and main gear cog. (That'll give me a spare main shaft
    to use on the hi-point too!). The way it is now I am sure to be
    getting "shear forces" on spool-up and spool-down, so to speak.
    I am now also being real gentle with throttle changes, i.e. winding
    it up to hover power slowly, to reduce the chance of breakage until
    I fit & try the auto clutch...
    
    Tnx, Jim.

    I'd also call Robbie and ask to talk to Vince. He's the chopper
    guy.  Be careful when your installing the new main shaft. Make sure
    it's OK. I had a prblem with the replacement I got and it's cost
    me extra money. 
    
    Painted the Junior last night. Need to paint the window of the canopy
    tonight. I set the pitch curve up also. Batteries are charging.
    
    
    							Tom

    Yes, I know this is the 'egg whisk' note, but I need some info from
    our 'silent power' brethren...
    
    I noticed a gizmo advertized in this month's RCM that detects thermals
    and down drafts. It is installed in between the RX and the appropriate
    servo. It will (in its intended glider role) put in right rudder
    if a thermal is detected or left if a downdraft. Both movements
    are proportional to the magnitude of the up/down draft.
    
    My question(s) are these:
    
    Have any of you used this gozmo, or a similar one? Does it work
    good? How sensitive is it, i.e. will it notice a change in height
    of, say, a foot over a few seconds?
    
    The reason I am interested is I have this crazy idea of incorporating
    it into my copter in the collective circuit to act as kind of an
    altitude hold function. e.g. if it detects descent it will add
    proportional up collective to correct it, and vice versa.
    
    Is this too crazy? Will the device need to be sheltered from the
    downdraft generated by the main blades?

 ------+------
    (Z[]>=====X  Jimi.
  `--'-`---

    

>    Have any of you used this gozmo, or a similar one? Does it work
>    good? How sensitive is it, i.e. will it notice a change in height
>    of, say, a foot over a few seconds?

I saw a guy using one at a contest.  I couldn't tell he had it on
and he didn't win anything.  I'm quite sure they work the same way as the
Ace Thermic Sniffers except use the output to modify servo position instead
of transmitting a tone.  That being the case then they will recognize
changes in height of a foot - but the output is instant - no few seconds
delay.  At the contest this last weekend one fellow had a thermic sniffer
that was on a ham band and he was receiving it on a large radio with
a real speaker - point was you could stand next to him and listen to
the output throughout the flight.

>    The reason I am interested is I have this crazy idea of incorporating
>    it into my copter in the collective circuit to act as kind of an
>    altitude hold function. e.g. if it detects descent it will add
>    proportional up collective to correct it, and vice versa.
>    
>    Is this too crazy? Will the device need to be sheltered from the
>    downdraft generated by the main blades?

I think you would be disappointed.  They are only useful when the
glider so too far way to trust your eyesight.  If you get your heli
that far away I suspect you will have other major problems.  But
all of us would be interested if you decide to try it.  This hobby
thrives on experimentation.  Maybe you could have it do automatic
auto-rotations.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    Thanks for your comments, Kay -- maybe I'm not as crazy as I thought
    (?)
    
    For my application, it would need to be pretty sensitive and fast
    acting. The ad also said it was controlable (on/off) from the TX
    via an extra channel, and I got a few spare channels...
    
    Given it costs about $45, I think I'll get one just to see what
    it will do. If it's no good for what I want I can always sell it
    cheap to one of you 'silent' folk. Hey, maybe Willie could use it
    on his Tycho to detect steep grades... :-)
    
    Jimi.

    Sure, just tell Tycho to find the top of the hill....  :+)
    
    Someday soon (when I get a spare minute) I'm gonna work on an
    artificial horizon.  Now that the Amiga Genlock works.....
    
    Willie

RE : < Note 366.96 by TWOMCH::IBBETT "Born to hover" >
                      -< Attention silent ower folks!!! >-

>    The reason I am interested is I have this crazy idea of incorporating
>    it into my copter in the collective circuit to act as kind of an
>    altitude hold function. e.g. if it detects descent it will add
>    proportional up collective to correct it, and vice versa.

    You might try looking into the ultrasonic ranging module that
    Polaroid uses in their autofocus cameras. A development kit & spec
    sheets are available from directly from Polaroid. The unit should be
    good out to about 30' or so and it wouldn't be affected by the
    downdraft from the blades. One of the guys down the hall from me has read
    specs. Appearantly it's not just a simple pulse echo system. It sends out
    ultrasonic pulses at four freqs and does something with the different
    returns to get a better measurement. I haven't got the foggiest idea what
    the price would be.

                     !
                   --+--
G. Schrader     o___<0>___o
                  *  *  *

    I think that the variometers designed for gliders would not work
    well for your chopper application because they are easily effected
    by temperature changes and I would GUESS the wind from the chopper
    blades would screw them up.

>    You might try looking into the ultrasonic ranging module that
>    Polaroid uses in their autofocus cameras.

    Now THAT'S a good idea!!  A guy that I work with bought one of these
    experimenter's kits and I took it home to play with for a few days. 
    It's really neat!!!  However, unless you're very experienced in
    electronics design, don't bother to go out and buy one.  (I think
    the price is $100. to $125.)  This will NOT be a plug-and-play unit
    for your chopper.  You would need to built a circuit to convert the
    range finder's output to control the servo's pulses - not a trivial
    thing to do but, not too difficult if you're into these types of
    circuits.  If you're into microprocessor programming, it would be
    really easy to do with a simple micro.  (As I recall, the Polaroid
    unit puts out a digital BCD code in inches - something like 6.0 to
    99.9 inches.  Before the BCD coding circuit, the data is available
    as the time delay between two pulses.)

    What do you chopper guys think:  Would there be a market for a device
    like this that would stabilize the altitude?  You could think of it as
    a gyro for the altitude instead of one of the other normal axis.  It
    could have a varying amount of sensitivity: from "auto-hover" to
    "disabled".
                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |            Happy Landings!
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|              - Dan Miner
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |     " The Earth needs more OZONE,
                      |      /                       not Caster Oil!! "    
                      |_____/

    Oops - I forgot to mention that there are also a few commercial
    units being sold as "electronic tape measures" or some such thing. 
    You can find them in department stores or building supply houses and
    they cost about $30. (I think??)

    Based on the descriptions I've read about these, I'd guess they are
    based on the Polaroid circuits.  Once again, you'd have to be a
    circuit hacker and figure out how to convert their signals to the
    appropriate servo commands.

                                    - Dan Miner

    Shouldn't really be that difficult to hack something up that would
    hold your altitude.  Since the altitude comes from the rangefinder
    as a pulse width and the servo is controlled with a pulse width,
    you could either do it in the analog domain with integrators and
    such (with another channel for 'desired altitude' input) or digitally
    with a couple of counter chains.  A micro would probably be easier,
    but be heavier and use more battery power....
    
    Willie

    re .102
    
    I saw one of those electronic measuring tapes..real neat.. even
    double as a calculator.

    
    md

    The polaroid sonar unit would probably be a suitable hover altitude
    sensor for a hover control system, but it would be a very tricky
    control system to design.  I have played with the Polaroid kit and
    it does come with the necessary info to make it useful.  However,
    there is excess baggage on the pc board since it was originally
    designed for a camera.  You would have to vibration isolate the
    transducer to prevent it from being damaged as well as to make it
    work reliably.  By the way, an altimiter based on this stuff was
    used on the man powered flight across the English Channel.  I believe
    that a guy at Polaroid built it for them.
    	You will need a very responsive and well behaved control system
    to control hover on a chopper.   
    
    Charlie
    

    Also, you should study up on your servo mechanisms. With a closed
    loop ( as in classical servo mechanisms ), if you have gain greater
    than unity at the crossover point at the frequency where your servo
    inputs are 180 degrees out of phase with your outputs, it will induce
    oscillation and instability. Most servo application require a carefully
    designed low pass filter.
    
    						John.

Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Path: decwrl!labrea!rutgers!mailrus!uwmcsd1!uxc!uxc.cso.uiuc.edu!a.cs.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!irwin
Subject: Re: first time out with a shuttle (heli
Posted: 13 Sep 88 21:19:00 GMT
Organization: 
Nf-ID: #R:sun.soe:1342:m.cs.uiuc.edu:40800006:000:1985
Nf-From: m.cs.uiuc.edu!irwin    Sep 13 16:19:00 1988
 
 
Rob, I have been flying choppers since 1972, and a test rig that I built
early in those years, low cost, is still of much use to me today, when
it comes to trimming a new machine.
 
Get a board, 3 feet long, 1" X 8" in thickness and width. Get two pieces
of 2" X 4" about the same length (3'). Lay the two by fours on edge
and nail the 1 X 8 to them, forming a capital H. Now get an old bicycle
front wheel, shift the axle off center in the wheel, as far as the bearing
nuts will allow. This will provide enough axle on one side of the wheel
to allow it to be connected to the 1 X 8 platform nailed to the 2 X 4s.
Place the wheel in the center of the H platform, after having drilled
a hole the diameter of the axle, in the center of the 1 X 8.
 
Now you can secure the machine to the flat wheel, using rubber bungee
cords and you are ready to start the engine. The wheel will allow the
machine to spin around, while you check the tracking of tail rotor trim
at all throttle settings. You can check the gyro operation, and can check
main rotor blade tracking, can move the main rotor via cyclic control and
watch the plane of rotation of the main rotor shift as you do so.
 
You can also set the engine mixture to what you want, both at idle and
under load of rotor RPM and pitch.
 
Doing the above allows a good check out, gets you used to the feel of
the tail, etc, before you connect the dowels and balls. There will be
no surprises when you get to that stage of trying the machine.
 
By the way, when you secure the machine to the wheel, be sure the
rotor shaft is exactly over the axle of the wheel, things work much
better.
 
 
Al Irwin
 
 
           ~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      / \
   \_______________---------
    \   /_/       /      ***\___
                  \          **/ 
                   -----------'
                    |      |
              -------------------'
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]

    
    Well, it fly's,hovers....
                 
    
    As some of you my know I had been flying a Schluter Junior 50.
    This had been the chopper that had taught me the most about choppers.
    Earlier this summer I bought the brother to the Junior the Scout
    60. Although I liked this chopper I for lack of flying time and
    a dumb streak ran into some problems. To start I rushed the flying
    of the scout and got disoriented and crashed. I then put the junior
    together only to fly on a windy day with insufficient rudder and
    crashed. WELL the scout and the junior were to be banged up twice
    more each. Needless to say it's been expensive. I have yet to rebuild
    the scout for the third time.  What in hell is he leading up to
    you must be asking......      This weekend was the first flight
    of rebuild three of the Junior. I had,had some ideas on making some
    changes to the chopper as kitted and thought that in this rebuild
    process I'd might as well try out my ideas. You have to understand
    the junior..... in a left turn, as kitted it needs power added to
    keep at a constant altitude no matter what the angle. Also the tail
    effectiveness isn't what it should be. So my idead were to add to
    the rotor span and boom length. I feel safe in that the head for
    the junior is identical to the scout and the boom are the same except
    for the added length. So the rotor span has been streached to 50
    inches and the boom lengthened to assure clearance.
    I have to say that it hovers and flies better than it ever has.
    It doesn't seem to need any added power in left turns and has become
    more stable in a hover. I'd suggest these changes to anyone who
    might be in the refit process with the junior. Oh, I almost forgot.
    I'm running scout 60 blades cut down.
    
    						Tom

    Tom,
    
    	What engine are you using in the Junior ?
    
    Regards,
    
    	Allan.

    
    I'm running a stock OS50H with a Heliball muffler. Glow fuel
    is 12.5% S&W. I don't know the all up weight of the chopper.
    A couple of other comments are that I'm running a rudder push
    rod that is silver soldered into one solid length. I've omitted
    the plastic link. Also as of monday I'm using 60 sized wood
    (yale) tail blades. Rudder effectiveness has gotten much better.
    The tail blades now extend below the vertical stab so I have
    added a wire stinger to help protect the tail blades.
    
    I want to reHipoint the tail assembly. I'm seeing a very slight
    vibration. This is due to my not Hipointing the tail when I 
    changed blades. I know, I know........  I was in a hurry.
    
    One other point is that I always use stick on covering but for
    these tail blades I used shrink. After trimming I CAed the ends
    and they are working quite well. The shrink holds up in the
    grass better than stick on. 
    
    
    						Tom

    Well, I had the twin star out to the field on Sunday, and other
    than the tail rotor servo and gyro being reversed, everything was
    set up reasonably close.  However, for some reason the collective
    was ultra sensitive.  This is quite puzzling, since this was not
    the case with the champion in its standard configuration, just
    prior to putting it in the twin star.  We only hovered it real
    close to the ground, since it acted so skittish.
    
    When I got home, I made some minor adjustments, and tried to
    free up the collective linkage.  I don't think that it was binding,
    but I then brought it out in the back yard and it did seem much
    more solid, however, there was no wind and that may have been the
    difference.  Time will tell.
    
    I also noticed a glitch in the tail rotor and I am not sure if this
    is due to radio or gyro.  The gyro switch could be giving me a slight
    problem, and this did seem to be the case when I first tried the
    twin star on Sunday.  I have to check the switch cutout to make
    sure that it is getting turned on all of the way.  

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\>
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    I got out with the Twin Star on Saturday and was very pleased with
    the results.  The first flight was uneventful.  There was little
    wind, and it flew nice and smooth.  I guess the problem with vertical
    sensitivity was caused with the radio pitch curve adjustment.  It
    was now very docile.  The second flight, there was some wind and
    it still flew very well.  However, as I was in a very low hover,
    the set screw for the tail rotor drive wire worked loose and I lost
    tail rotor control, causing the chopper to spin.  I set it down
    and had minor damage to the tail feathers.  However, all has been
    fixed, and I expect to have many hours of enjoyment on the Twin
    Star.    

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\>
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    Ken, This weekend's flying session was good and bad for me also.
    I was rippen when I got to the field. WHY?? Anyways in my anger
    I took off and lost all inabition(sp) I was flying the hell out
    of it. So I did it. My first loop with a chopper. Then another.
    Then one of the other flyers called out for a roll. I said "I
    don't know how to do a roll" Simple, fly level and move right stick
    to right. So I did it again. I rolled the chopper for the first
    time. The flight ended with a total of at least six loops and three
    rolls. Felt great. However before the flight had started my clutch
    had been sticking so I proceeded to pull the engine out of the 50
    to see what was up. What was up was a broken clutch. Must have
    overheatedsince I put in the new clutch lining. Oh well the first
    flight was a great flight. Ordered part last night. should have
    it today and have the chopper back together for tomorrow. Tomorrow
    is our monthly club meeting. Maybe I'll leave from work and put
    in an hour of flying before the meeting. Lets see not how about
    a 540 stall turn. I bet'ya even Al's Mig can't do that.....:-)
    
    Tom

    Tom,
    
    Congratulations.  Looks like you've reached "Chopper Puberty"! 
    
    
    Also, add me to the Chopper Jockey Club.  Looks like a part of my
    anatomy is growing too...
    
    Chris
    
    Yeah, do a 540 stall... I know Al won't try that!

In the DEC-88 issue of Model Builder the Chopper Chatter column by Dick 
Grossman.  He said he finally had an answer for the question "What's the 
best helicopter for a beginner?".

And he went on to describe the Kalt Cyclone.

The really interesting part came when he talked about boom strikes and
the auto-rotation clutch.  Now I'm quoting from the article:
================================================================================
Another thing missing is an autorotation clutch (though this is available
as a fairly expensive option).  Again, for the beginner, an autorotation
clutch does nothing good.  How many times have you seen someone put a 
helicopter down a little hard or a little crooked; and just when you think
they got away with it, that rotor blade comes around and wacks the tail boom.
In the learning phase, you'd like to be able to make that rotor head slow
down and stop as fast as possible.  That's the exact opposite of the 
freewheeling rotor you want for autorotations.  Add to that the fact that those
Torrington bearings are relatively fragile and quite expensive, and you can
see why you're better off without one until you're into forward flight.
================================================================================

See I've always felt that Helicopters were like arcade games.  You had to 
already be an expert if you don't want to loose all your quarters.

If your an expert then you can fly the cheap helicopters without gyros
and with standard 4 channel airplane radios.  If your a beginner you need
the easiest helo to fly - that's the most expensive helo and it's set up
by an expert.  Sort of catch 22.

Sooooooooo

How about you helicopter experts explaining what causes this boom strike seconds
after I land hard?  I thought boom strikes were something that was a design
deficiency of the aircraft?

What is a Torrington Bearing?

Do you agree that it would be good for a beginner not to have autorotation?

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

>How about you helicopter experts explaining what causes this boom strike seconds
>after I land hard?  I thought boom strikes were something that was a design
>deficiency of the aircraft?

    Boom strikes are the result of a landing that is so hard that the
    blades, unsupported by sufficient lift, and bent by inertia at
    their ends, bow downward, allowing the blade tips to strike the
    boom. 

    Another reason for boom strikes is that as the blades slow down,
    they are no longer "flying".  They are essentially stalled.
    
    But- they're still turning plenty fast enough to precess!  So, that
    wobble on the rough set-down causes the blade disk to precess around
    and whacka!, you get a boom strike.
    
    Try giving it throttle on a rough landing, to keep the rotor RPM
    up (but don't give it up collective, or you'll take off again!)
    That way, the blades will continue to "fly" and track the way the
    swash plate is asking them to track.
    
    -----
    
    Does this model use a flybar-type head, or is it swash-plate only?
    If it's a flybar type, then you'll have even worse times with low
    RPMs because the flybar will precess from the rough landing too.
    
    	-Bill (lusting after a few hours of time in a _REAL_ chopper)

    Hi Bill (lusting after a few hours of time in a _REAL_ chopper),
    
    	I decided to give it a try the last time I was in the states,
    and I have attached a note I put in the Euro_flying notes conference.
    Hope you find it of interest.
    
    Regards,
    
    	Allan
    
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    

          <<< RDGENG::CRASH_DUMPS:[NOTES$LIBRARY]EURO_FLYING.NOTE;1 >>>
================================================================================
Note 160.1        Pat your head, rub your tummy and tap dance..           1 of 5
AYOU35::ALLAN "Allan Johnstone - 823-4006 @AYO"      77 lines  11-JUL-1988 17:03
                              -< Defying gravity >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


	Recently, a couple of friends and myself thought that we would like to
get a CPL(H) (we have always loved helicopters). A PPL(H) would have been of
little use as we could not afford to keep up the hours without help. 
	I have found note 162.n very interesting since we found problems
with the conversion for the CPL(H) (glad we checked before we spent the
money !).

	So, during a recent trip to the USA, I decided to check out the
'school' (one guy and a dog) and have a trial flight to see I could hack
it.
	As some of you may already know I have some, if limited experience
in gliders, and some even more limited experience with my radio controlled
Helicopter.
	Armed with this knowledge, and having watched the Biggles film,"If
you can fly a Sopwith Camel, you can fly anything", I arrived at Lawrence
Municipal Airport. and booked a flight for the Saturday afternoon.
	Saturday arrived, weather fine, wind light North-easterly. Checked
in with the instructor and after the small talk and a precautionary visit
to see a man about a dog, we walked out on the apron and over to the R22
that I was going to 'attempt' to fly.
	I was given a brief demonstration of the pre-flight checks, during
which Rod explained the major things to look out for, since if we fell out
of the sky, that was probably what had gone wrong.
	We climbed into the cockpit and to my surprise we both fitted. Rod
did the difficult bit of starting up and told me that as soon as we were above
800' he would give me 'full' control. The take-off was perfect and on reaching
800' those imortal words, "you have control".
	I must admit, that if you ignored the noise and the vibration, the
flying straight and level was a piece of cake. I had a few problems with
the turning since as a glider pilot, I am used to using the rudder in the
turns, and on this machine almost no rudder (torque pedals) was required.
	We headed out towards the coast and Rod demonstrated the Auto-rotation
and recovery procedures, the glide angle was no more severe than a full
airbrake approach in a glider with good airbrakes. We continued out toward
the coast and he told me to make an approach to a small airfield while he
handled the RT. On finals Rod took over and took us over to a far corner
of the field. We were now going to try a hover.
        First we hovered at about 5-10 feet then using only the pedals and I
was told to do a smooth 360 degree turn. Tricky, but relatively smooth on
the second attempt.
	Next, the pedals and collective and try and do a smooth 360 at approx
the same hieght. Even more tricky and I couldn't tell what the variation
in hieght was, but he seemed satisfied for my first attempt.
	Now came the moment of truth, would I go to pieces, surely he woudn't
ask me to turn it as well !!!. Phew, Rod told me to take the pedals, collective
and cyclic and try to hover pointing into what wind we had (less than 5
knots). I took the controls and "you have control". The concentration was
quite extreme, I could hear Rod counting me down, 15 seconds, 30, 45, 50
seconds, "come on give me a minute". I think it was that that finally broke
the concentration, because I don't think I ever made the full minute. We
left the airfield and headed back towards yet another field further inland,
back towards Lawrence. 
	You have just had an engine failure, now get out of that ! With a
little help,( ok a fair amount of help), I managed to take the aircraft down
in the autoration until about 100' when I said, "you have control" I was sure
I didn't want to be any shorter than I already am.
	Ok, next the take-off. 70 Kts. and started to climb. I was beginning
to get the hang of it and if I had the money, I might even get hooked.
	Back to Lawrence where again I was to complete the circuit while
Rod gave me encouraging remarks and handled the RT. Final approach, to about
40-50' over the end of the runway when "I have control" and Rod taxied to
the Apron and shut down the machine.
	I would not have missed that experience for the world, when I got
out it reminded me of when I sat my driving test. I was sweating like a
pig and was sure that the backside of my trousers must have had a damp patch
that everyone could see.
	Hope I haven't bored you all too much, but I thought I would try
to share the flight. I would recommend it. For $125 it was a fantastic 1
hours flight. Not to be done every day unless you have lots of bucks.

       I think I will go back to my 1947 vintage glider. Happy flying !


	Allan ;^)

    

    
    

     I guess I didn't make myself clear: I _have_ 7 hours of
    PIC/instruction time in real chopper.  I _lust_ after more!  
    
    ---------------------
    
    The feeling when first trying to hover is as Allan describes it:
    _intense_ concentration.  Too many things to do at once.  I was
    unable to hover for more than 5 seconds at first.... and indeed
    you _do_ sweat like a pig in the hover.
    
    My hover didn't calm down enough for me to consider that I had it
    "under control" until I had about 6 hours of stick time...
    and then (due to work) I had to stop for a month... back to square
    1.  (well, maybe square 2...)  GRUMPPPP.
    
    But once you "get it nailed", hovering is like flying in a dream.
    You can fly forwards, backwards, sideways, turn in place, go up
    and down.  It's really great.  
    
    I just wish I had the 
    	1) time                  
    	2) money
    to keep up with it.  :-)
                            
    
    	-Bill
    

    
    	Sorry Bill, I misunderstood you.
    
    	I will give it another shot some time though, it gave me an
    insight into the model and vice versa.
    
    Regards,
    
    	Allan.

    Hello All...
    
    	I have just read through the replies and find this all very
    interesting.  Two questions...
    
    
    	Could someone (Ken Colby?) give me directions to the Tewksbury
    field, and are you guys flying yet?
    
    
    	Mike Gallant, was the Baron 28 expensive and where did you buy
    it from?   
    
    					Thanks,
    
    
    					Al (Maybe Thinking of Starting
    a new Hobby)

    I can't speak for Mike, but Kalt the manufacturer of the Baron 28
    has stopped production of this kit. I guess they can make the upgraded
    kit, the Baron 30 cheaper than the 28 was. I take it your looking
    for a "First chopper"?
    
    Good luck with the choppers. Any experience with other RC crafts?
    
    
    
    
    Last night I ordered by engine for a new chopper. A went with a
    Webra. Can't wait. I'm having it blue mailed. Started the EXCEL
    last night about 10:30. I got through step one which assembles the
    head. The last part of step one is making the blades. I'll wait
    to do this until the end. Tonight starts the main frame assembly.
    
    
    Tom
    
    P.S. The Excel uses ball links that thread into the reenforced plastic
    head parts. I was a little skeptical when I heard of this but since
    seeing several Excel's fly (get beat) and assembling the head I
    can't see any problem wit this system. Boy, there's a lot of Barings
    in that head.
    
    
    

    re. -2
    
    Like Tom said, the Baron 28 is no longer offered by Kalt. I believe
    the Baron 30 or Baron 30MX is the replacement chopper. Whatever
    its designation I believe Kalt found the same problem I did and
    decided to solve it the same way I did. 
    
    The Baron, although an inexpencive chopper, was reliable but
    underpowered with an OS 25. I believe that onece I get the OS 32
    in it I am looking forward to an exciting summer with it.
    
    Mike
    

    forgot I got it from Circus Hobbies out of Las Vegas, Nevada.
    
    	800-782-0022
    
    Mike
    

    This note has been quite since march.
    
    In the past month I've been finishing up the EXCELL 60 and getting
    ready for my club's Chopper meet. I'm the CD. The event is coming
    together. Last night I pulled together the last few open items.
    Well that's another story...
    Yesterday I painted the second color on the EXCELL's canopy. So
    far it's major color is red with two bold white stripes on the side.
    I'll be going to the shop today and picking up some more paint for
    the window section of the canopy. I'm looking for a somewhar dark
    blue metalic but I don't think they make such a paint in spray
    bombs. I'll probably have to opt for my second choice which is black.
    I also comleted the radio installation installing a new Futaba G154
    gyro. So into the back yard for a test hop. Everything went well
    and I got it hovering. I have to work on the throttle curve.
    Additionally I have to give the engine some time before I lean it
    out at all. The Webra came with a fan installed so I couldn't
    run it up on a test stand. The other item is trying to learn the
    radio. I have the JR PCM 10 in the EXCELL. It's a quick radio but
    I'm still learning the functionality. I'm not sure if the radio
    comes with an anti torque system.  More status reports to follow.
    
    
    TOM
    
    P.S. The Helo FLY-In is MAY 7. One week from this sunday. Hope to
    see some of you noters there.
    
    

    Just an update on my activity over the winter.  I was lazy and did
    little over the winter.  I did get the chopper out once, but that
    was it.  I have started to rebuild the Aerospatial Twin Star.  I
    have been doing some modification of the fiberglass, and also have
    rebuilt the landing gear.  The Kit uses standard Schluter Champion
    gear which has no relationship to the real landing skids, except
    that both are on the underside of the chopper.  I have made gear
    up from 3/8 aluminium rod (thanks to a suggestion by Dan Eaton.)
    I will not have the Twin Star completed for the May 7 fun fly, but
    I am planning to go there, weather permitting.  However, Tom, I
    doubt that I will be there in time for the pilots meeting. Will
    that be a problem?
    

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\>
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    As long as you talk the event up and get others in your area to
    come I'll agree to let you in after the pilots meeting:-)
    
    Really,no problem. I have covered most of what I'm going to talk
    about at the pilots meeting in a cover letter of a package every
    entrent will be getting. In the package is a layout,fun-fly
    rules,safety rules and again the cover letter.
    
    Glad to hear your coming. I called Ernie Huber last night for about
    the fifth time and finalized if he was coming. He check his schedule
    and having nothing planned he committed to come. He will be giving
    a clinic during the meet. On what I don't know. i'm leaving this
    up to his discression.
    
    Also I talked to a group out of Conn. and they're coming with some
    supprize. I think they'll have the new Schluter Magic with them.
    
    Last thing is that there will be coffee and doughnuts in the morning
    and starting around noon hamburgers,hotdogs and soda. Also a
    chemical toilet will be at the field.
    
    
    
    Hope to see you and your friends there.
    
    
    
    Tom

Hmmm. Maybe I'd better give a little update. On the bad side, I haven't had
much time lately to fly my Cobra. I did take it to Colorado Springs with me
but it was way too windy all week. The trip was still a success 
because it proved out my traveling arraingments for the Cobra.

On the good side, the reason I haven't had time to fly is because I've been 
working on the Jet Ranger.  The JR is all painted now except for some touch up
and a final coat of K&B clear. I'm waiting on finishing up the lettering before
finishing the painting. I ended up using Scenic Woodlands rub on lettering. The
stuff is great. The holdup I have is that the hobby shop ran out of the color-
style I need and it won't be in till next week. Hopefully, if nothing else comes
up the maiden flight should be in about two weeks. I'll video tape it and send
a copy to Eric for editing into the DECRCM tapes.

Since the JR is stalled I'm going to spend the time sharpening my flying skills.
I want to work on nose-in hovering. Everytime I've tried learning before it's
cost me a set of rotor blades. This time's going to be different. I'm going to
borrow the training stand my friend Cam built last summer and strap the Cobra 
to it. I didn't really care for the feel of the training stand when I tried it
out last summer so I'll let you know what I think after I learn nose-in on
it.

                                                        /     \ /
Dan Eaton - Demented                                   /      / \ 
            Dragonfly                                 /       #  
            Pilot                                    /        #
                                                    /        #
                                                   \       # 
                                                  //@@@ #
                                                 / l @##  .  
                                                /   #@   .
                                               /        .
                           @                  /       \.
                          _/\
                            /\_
                            l 
                                                       
 

    I spend a few minutes last night on the choppers. The new Xcell
    is all cleaned and ready for the fly-in this sunday. I hope it
    doesn't rain. Forcast is for possibility of showers. 
    
    At the last DEC Fly-In I had lost throttle on my junior. It was
    diagnosed as a broked throttle arm on the carb. OS 50's are known
    for this. The arm is made of tow pieces. One being a collar similar
    to a wheel collar. The other being the arm stamped out of sheet
    stock. The arm is placed over one end of the collar and swedged.
    The problem is that this swedge comes loose. I had tack soldered
    the two parts to guard against loosing the arm but it still broke
    loose. <the fix for me was to remove the collar and sand the 
    anodizing off of the arm and collar swedge. They silver solder the
    two parts together and reinstall on the carb barrel. I put the junior
    on change and will test hop it today in the back yard to verify
    the throttle curve is ok.
    
    I'm also looking at buying a Baron 28 kit from a modeler in my club.
    I'd like to use this to learn noe in hover. We'll see how the finances
    go...
    
    Also talked to the boss today and confirmed the vacation day for
    the 18th. I'll have the Junior and the Xcell 60 there unless something
    happens to either one of them between now and then.
    
    
    Tom

    Well most of my Baron parts came in yesterday, and last night I
    went at the repairs. The servo tray is now built and instaled,
    all servos reinstalled and the radio and gyro installed minus
    the foam padding (10 miniutes). 
    
    I have ran five tanks throught the 32-H and it runs fine even 
    leaned out for a couple of miniutes so it can now be installed.
    That will take the better part of one evening as the fan shroud
    will have to be trimmed to accommodate the helo engine cooling
    head that the 25-FSR did not have.
    
    I put the canopy halves together and now need to cut the excess
    plastic off and install the windshield, drill the mounting holes,
    install the gromets and then install the two swithes. All this
    should take three hours at least.
    
    If I get it all put together before sundays fun-fly I may be to
    tired to fly it, we'll see.
    
    Mike
    

RE:366.128
    
>    Also I talked to a group out of Conn. and they're coming with some
>    supprize. I think they'll have the new Schluter Magic with them.
    
Tom,
There's no mention of Schluter Magic in your fun-fly report. Know anything
about it other than the name?

Dan Eaton

    Dan,
    
    	I have no idea what they have, except that they look a lot like
    a legend. I did however see three of them at the fly-in before I
    left. 
    
    Mike
    

    I looked at a couple of magics at the fly in. Basicly think of a
    Schluter scout60. At the front keep the plywood baffle that seals
    off the canopy from the outside and install their new plastic
    frame work. This looks like it's made of 5 pieces that are screwed
    together. It seemed rigid. Next the canopy is a little longed in
    the nose and in the rear. The head is the same as the Scout. The
    tailboom is longer. Longer rotor blades. Disengageing starter
    start. My thoughts about this are still out. I've heard of
    disengagementproblems and breakage. The tail gearbox looks the 
    sam as the scouts The tail rotor hub is pinned to make a delta hinge
    and the control system is like a Heim,Xcell. That's about it.
    
    I do think it is over priced.
    
    
    Tom

RE:366.134
    
>    tailboom is longer. Longer rotor blades. Disengageing starter
>    start. My thoughts about this are still out. I've heard of
>    disengagementproblems and breakage. The tail gearbox looks the 
>    sam as the scouts The tail rotor hub is pinned to make a delta hinge

How's the disengaging starter work? Although it be nice not having the starter
cone sitting there vibrating it sounds like this might add weight for little
gain.

Dan Eaton

    The whole mechanics are much more complex.  There is the disengaging
    starter shaft that engages with the fan.  At the underside of the
    fan, there is a gear that drives another gear that is on a shaft.
    At the other end of that shaft, there is a gear that drives the
    tail rotor shaft.  I don't remember what drives the main rotor,
    but that was on still another shaft.  I felt that the machine was
    not only overpriced, as Tom said, but would also be very expensive
    in the event of a repair.  Also, major rework to get at all of the
    mechanics.  The one other distinction of the Magic is the orange
    anodizing of all the frame, tail boom, and tail feathers.  It does
    make it stand out in the sky a little better.  It is supposed to
    fly even better that the Champion and Scout.  (I think the larger
    tailboom and longer main rotor would account for that.)

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\>
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    
    I need some information from anyone who has attended or participated
    in an AMA helicopter event.
    
    In the Intermediate section on choppers there is a manuaver called
    a Chandelle.
    
    one flyer at the club says to execute this manuaver one;
    
    	Pitches the chopper into 1/4 loop. At the end of this you roll
    the chopper to the right and give it left rudder. The roll is not
    fast but slow for app. 1/4 loop. The chopper comes out the top .
    
    The AMA book describes something different. The drawing of the
    manuaver shows that the chopper is put into a high degree banking
    loop for 1/4 loop. Then aileron and rudder are applied to pull the
    chopper out. It ends up a min. of 20 ft away from you inward line
    parallel going away.
    
    
    Has anyone seen this manuaver performed? Need help with what it's
    supposed to be.
    
    
    Tom

    Re: .137
    
    Tom,
    
    I believe a chandelle is the rotary winged equivalent of a fixed
    wing stall turn.  (You can't stall a rotor disc - as long as they're
    spinning!)
    
    To execute one fly straight and level and pull the stick back -
    the model should climb with a steadily increasing nose-up attitude.
    When she stops moving forward, ideally with the nose pretty high,
    kick the boom around with a short pulse of either left or right
    tail rotor and bring the stick forward.  The boom will flick round
    quite quickly and the model should head toward the ground.  As forward
    speed is gained, pull back to level out and she should be flying
    in the opposite direction from when you started the maneouvre.
    
    The main thing to watch out for is not pulling out too quickly.
    I've seen numerous smashed rotor blades from pulling back too hard
    as you see your pride and joy heading straight for terra firma!
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    
    Graham

    re: .136 & .137
    
    Tom,
    the times I've seen people perform the chandelle it's been just
    like out of the book. You fly down your base line and then do a
    climbing turn which ends up with the copter being much higher and
    headed back parallel to the baseline. 
    
    To quote the book:
    
    Pilot announces start of manuver with helicopter flying straight
    and level along the baseline and into the wind, and then executes
    a maximum power transitional climbing 180 degree turn. The banking
    angle of the turn must be noticable but must not exceed 60 degrees.
    The manuver is complete when the helicopter is at a level attitude
    heading downwind parallel to the baseline and at a significantly
    higher altitude.
    
    That came from the AMA's 1988-1989 Competition Regulations Book
    on page 85. Over on page 86 is a picture illustrating the maneuvers.
    If your version (I thought you had this book?) doesn't have the
    illustrations, let me know and I'll copy them and send them off
    to you. By the way, for reasons I don't understand, I've been told
    the Chandelle is one of those maneuvers thats easy to do ok but
    difficult to do well. 
    
    .138 describes a stall turn. They want you to pull the nose up into
    a quarter loop, swing the tail 180 degrees, and go back exactly
    the way you came.
    
    Hope this help,
    
    Dan Eaton

Last night I ordered a new helicopter. Not that I really wanted to order one
but I find that if I want to fly helicopters I need to buy a new one. Its 
been difficult to get parts for my GMP Cobra's all summer. I ended up rolling
into the corn field from 50 feet up yesterday (I must be getting better, the 
crashes keep getting further out in the corn) and I'm out of parts. I tried 
calling around but no one has parts. The story I got from Dr. J's on the 
West coast is that Hirobo and GMP are having a spat. Since half the parts in
the Cobra are Hirobo and GMP is their authorized distributor that leaves me
up the creek without a paddle. The guy at Dr. J's also said that Hirobo and
GMP are still talking and may come to an accord but in the mean time GMP is
going to start making their own parts. That's the good news. The bad news is
it may be six months before they have things in production. 8^(

Faced with the prospect of not flying for six months (I'm not holding my 
breath on that either) I decided to get a 30 sized copter so I could keep
working on my flying skills. After weighing a lot of factors like parts
availability and chances of continued parts availability I decided on a 
Concept 30. Hopefully by Saturday I'll be back in the air (and please, please
not in the corn field).

The Concept takes care of me flying for now but without a 50/60 size machine
my scale efforts are grounded. As far as that goes, the best solution is really
to get the Cobras back in the air. GMP may eventually come thru with the parts
but in the mean time I'm going to start investigating other makes of helicopters
with an eye to seeing what can be adapted to work on the Cobra. The parts
that every Cobra owner in the country need are:

Autorotation main gear - I may be able to bore the center of a standard main
gear out if I can find one. I'd like to find another vender's gear that could
be modified though, just so I have a second source.

Blade holders - this piece of cast aluminum has a arm that sticks out for the 
pitch ball to screw into. The arm always breaks. Somebody, I think it might be
Kalt, makes a blade holder with the arms as separate units that are attached
with screws to the blade holders. I need to see if I can mill off the broken 
arms and then attach their arm units. 

Hub holder - this piece holds the head on the main shaft. Not much can be done
other than machine a piece out of solid stock. Not fun and pity the poor guy
who doesn't have some form of access to machine tools. 8^(

                                                        /     \ /
Dan Eaton - Demented                                   /      / \ 
            Dragonfly                                 /       #  
            Pilot                                    /        #
                                                    /        #
                                                   \       # 
                                                  //@@@ #
                                                 / l @##  .  
                                                /   #@   .
                                               /        .
                           @                  /       \.
                          _/\
                            /\_
                            l 
                                                       

Dan, I am here in the Santa Clara office for a meeting and last night I
stopped by a place called Helicopter World in San Jose. They seem to have 
a large stock for all machines. Phone (408) 436-1025/1029. I will put a 
note in the Hobby Shop note when I return but I'd thought you may want to
check out this source. BTW I ran my HeliStar into godd ole mother earth
last week what a mess!

    I was just on the phone with Rave's RC and the story from them is
    tha Gorham owes Hirobo a rather large sum of money. GMP continueing
    to handle Hirobo is no longer a question. The answer in NO. I wouldn't
    doubt that you'll see Tower or some other outfit coming out with
    the entire Hirobo line of choppers.
    
    Chris, The Xcell is quite a bit similar to the GMP If ya have a
    damaged main gear handy send it to me and I'll do a comparison.
    Maybe you can used the Xcell gear?
    
    
    Tom

    RE:.142
    Hmmm, interesting. Hirobo does have a nice line of copters that
    seem to sell well outside the US. They have a number of good scale
    ships with limited availability in the US. Gorham may be (or have been)
    their distributor but they don't really push the Hirobo line much
    unless its been Gorhamfied like the Stork vs the Special Edition
    Stork. Both Kalt and Hirobo seem to be hampered in their efforts
    to reach the US market by their distributors. You may well be right
    in your prediction about Tower or another outfit coming out with
    the Hirobo line.
    
    Dan Eaton

    I looked over a buddies Legend yesterday. It's like a Cobra but
    not. They are somewhat different. I've also seen the new Rebel.
    Note that with the Legend the main gear is simplified and that
    the top bevel gear is not used. Also note that on the Rebel the
    main gear is completely different from most main gears. I could
    see Gorham producing these gears alone in the US. The only problem
    parts I see are the rear gearbox housings and the blade holders.
    
    Dan, If you have trouble getting a Cobra gear ask if they have a
    Legend gear. Right now they are the same thing.
    
    
    Tom 

>    I looked over a buddies Legend yesterday. It's like a Cobra but
>    not. They are somewhat different. I've also seen the new Rebel.
>    Note that with the Legend the main gear is simplified and that
>    the top bevel gear is not used. Also note that on the Rebel the
>    main gear is completely different from most main gears. I could
>    see Gorham producing these gears alone in the US. The only problem
>    parts I see are the rear gearbox housings and the blade holders.
>    
>    Dan, If you have trouble getting a Cobra gear ask if they have a
>    Legend gear. Right now they are the same thing.

>    Tom 


Tom,
there are a number of parts on the Legend that share their Hirobo heritage
with the Cobra. I've noticed in pictures of the Legend's flybar-less head
that the blade holders are the same Hirobo parts as used on the Legend. I
got a feeling there's some P.O.'d Legend owners out there also. I thought
of another interesting twist this whole thing might take. Depending on how
much GMP owes Hirobo, how long it takes to get parts in production, ect, I
could see Hirobo offering to buy Gorham out. 

Dan Eaton 

    
    	This past wednesday my club the PVRCC had it's monthly meeting.
    We did something different and had a "Chopper" night. Eleven
    guys brought in 17 choppers. It was quite a showing. In attendance
    were, kalts 30 & 28's, Concept 30,Cobras,Legends,Junior 50's,
    Shuttles,Rebels and Xcells. The topic of discussion was then choppers.
    
    	Yesterday we saw two new chopper novices at the field directly
    attributed to the chopper night. One guy had a Junior 50 that he
    had bought a year or so ago and crashed (Badly). It's been rebuilt
    now for at least a year but he's been uneasy to fly it. The past
    meeting got him going again and he's back trying to hover. The
    other guy went out and bought a new shuttle,radio,engine and gyro
    thursday night and had it all done for sunday. The guys at the field
    spend an hour or so setting it up correcting some adjustments and
    then he was off and running. That brings my clubs chopper owners
    to a toatl of 19 guys. And to think that only three years ago there
    were only two guys flying choppers. They have come a long way.
    Having a sizable number of guys at different stages in the learning
    process makes learning easier. There are now guys in the club that
    can fly anything and help with the set up. A lot can be said for
    having a trimmer chopper to learn with.
    
    
    Tom

    
    	I;ve been quiet about choppers these past two weeks because
    I've been in the process of assembling a GMP Legend with an
    Elite head. This is a stock Legend identical to an other
    Legend except for the rotor head. Instead of the Flybarless
    head seen on most Legends this chopper sports an underslung
    flybared head fron the UK. One interesting difference is that
    as the cyclic moves up the mainshaft the blades are deflected
    negative. This is opposite all other designs. Why it's done
    this way i don't know. How is simple. This design has the pitch
    change arns off of the blade holders in the front of the blade.
    All other designs are in the back of the blade. I don't know if
    it matters but of notes is that doing the pitch change this way
    utilizes a "Pull" force for increasing pitch apposed to a "Pushing"
    force on other choppers. This equates to an elimination of any possible
    flewing of the rod when a pitch increase is requested.
    
    I didn't like the magnelite tail surfaces so I've fabricating my
    own out of 1/8" plywood. I plan to put the PCM 10 in this chopper.
    I have a Webra in to for power. 
    
    
    Latter,
    
    
    Tom

    Yesterday saw the first flights of my new Legend Elite. The Webra
    was giving be a little problem but we cleared that up. I got
    three hovers and one forward flight out of it yesterday before I
    called it quits. I figure I'll go over the entire chopper to check
    each bolt. The pitch curve need a little work and that will be delt
    with during the check out.
    Last night after getting back to the field I tore the Xcell 60 apart
    right down to the side frames. I'll start the cleaning and rebuild
    this week. This will get my new Enya 60 XF IV helicopter engine
    and a magnapipe.
    
    
    Tom

From: [email protected] (Rob Logan)
Subject: helis in chicago (long)
Date: 8 Nov 89 21:38:30 GMT
Sender: [email protected] (Rob Logan)
 
> The Chicago Model Hobby Show was held November 2-5 at O'Hare
> Expo Center in Chicago. The show is an annual event sponsored by
> RCHTA, Radio Control Hobby Trade Association, and  MRIA, the
> Model Railroad Industry Association. Nearly 400 suppliers of
> radio control cars, boats, planes, trains, plastic models, games
> and other hobby accessories were present to meet with hobby
> professionals and consumers.
 
> The next Chicago Model Hobby Show will be held from October 18-21, 1990. 
 
As a heli nut I saw the show a little differently...
 
There was a cricket size electric heil in the static display with two
540 sized motors. 
 
I saw my Aisonic eh-550 fly on video tape.  (.5m long electric heli)
They added fatter (cricket) blades to it..  I know that pilot was
working very hard...  The aisonic swang 180^o many times before he got
it in fast forward flight.  The tail rotor is uncontrollable.  It didn't
even have enough power to flair on landing... they even showed the crash
landing on tape..
 
Century Import & Export was selling a modifyed version of my electric
heli (yea...  I order one..  $230) with a much longer tail boom,
stronger landing gear, new batterys and the fatter main blades.  The
person at the both flew the model every 4th hr on thur and friday... 
remarkably stable for its size..  He was also selling tuned pipes for a
side exhaust legend that bends back and up for a good cg..  I ordered
one and a whispertek header for my legend. 
 
I met L.H.  Kunin (Vice Pres) and Harvey Dorfman (Tec sales rep) from
UDISCO (called QNYN in the US) that are importing the Hirobo line of
helis to Canada.  He is the "gray market" that GMP has been complaining
about.  Paul, from Heli Unlimited, got his shuttle Zs from them.  QNYN
just got a shipment of shuttle ZXs this week.  Paul is also getting the
new ZXs too.  Dorfman has the full line of Hirobo including the Vertol
and Eagles.  Dorfnam works 1.2hr from Clarkson so I plain to check out
his place some time.  Kunin is convinced that he will get the importing
rights of Hirobo in the US.  I have also heard roomers that Hyatt
(largest seller of Hirobo helis in the US) and Hobby Dunamics (current
importer of Hirobo cars, but sells Kalt helis) are in the running for
importing rights.  (I got this idea talking to others, not Kunin or
Shimohira).  For right now Hirobo will sell to anyone who faxes them an
order (except GMP). 
 
I also met Kanji Shimohira (Assistant Manager of Overseas sales section)
from Hirobo.  He was here checking out the American RC industry and
didn't have a both.  I got the impression that GMP really has them
scared, and they couldn't have a both.  He wasn't very good at English
but I got the new 1990 Hirobo catalog.  He was very concerned that I
hide the catalog at the show.  Harvey Dorfman claims there are only 3
Hirobo catalogs in the states, Paul's, Hyatt's, and mine. 
 
Hirobo has two new big heads out, the FFZ and SSZ.  The FFZ is a cheaper
version of the FFZ swing under head..  These new heads are used in the
condor and eagle that won the F3C worlds.  The heads in the Hirobo line
are: shuttle FZ (new swing under) shuttle MRB III (three bladed
flybarless used in the Vortol) DDF, SSR, FFZ, and the SSZ. 
 
The new shuttle ZX looks great.  It has a longer tail boom, weighted
main blades, larger gas tank, new tail rotor linkage (better response)
cg corrected main blades and fly bar paddles, 20 BB, all metal clutch,
and stronger landing gear.  The new FZ swing under head can do +12 to -8
so you can fly inverted with no modifications..  It's awesome...  I
bought one for my self and some for my local hobby shop (and lots of
spare parts, blades, tail boom...) I could mail you a shuttle ZX with a
os32 recoil pull start engin installed for $399.  That good considering
the engin is $130 and an old shuttle XX is $260.  Also if you need ANY
Hirobo part my local hobby shop has it. 
 
Hirobo also has a cute .10 powered heli called the bk117.  It has a belt
driven tail rotor and a swing under head.  Its very cute in its fully
inclosed body...  I ordered one ($260 with engine) and expect it in feb. 
 
Nick Nicholas (marketing director) from TSK had some very nice stuff... 
A new baringless head, carbon fiber tail and main blades...  He also has
stainless steel ball joints..  very nice.. 
 
X-cell was there with a 30, 40, 50 and 60 sized helis..  There were lots
of hop-up parts.  The one hop up part that stuck out was a "delta"
conversion kit.  This provided a fully symmetrical linkages and a 10^o
offset bell system.  I was told it helps with windy hovering and fast
forward flight.  I also saw a skytack.  You look through the hole in it
at your friend's heli and push a switch until the blades stop, then read
off the rpm...  Miniature Aircraft also had lots of tools and header
pipes.  (the headers look exactly like the ones from Century Import &
Export)
 
I also saw an Excalibur heli for the first time.  Its a very clean
design that was free of slop.  The collective pitch comes up through a
hole in the main shaft the swashplate doesn't move.  This addes a little
to the complexity compared to a shuttle/legend but its not too bad.  It
also uses reinforced nylon-plastic side frames (like the shuttle).  I
would rather have 6061 or 5052 AL that I can bend back rather than just
shattering.  Kalt also has a new 30 sized heli.  The one I saw didn't
have enough collective (through the center shaft again) for inverted but
it looked easer to modify than the concept 30 or an old shuttle. 
 
Also at the Hobby Dynamics both I played with the JR10 touch screen
radio.  It took me over 1.5hr to go through all the menus and fully
understand every function..  It's more powerful that I thought.  It's
still doesn't have as many functions or is as versatile as the Futaba
9vhp but is easer to use.  oh...  airtronics is comming out with a new
radio..  It's going to be in a fancy black box with finger holds and a
large touch screen.  The thing that impressed me was that you can type
in what channel you want and the receiver will match it! You will never
be left without a freq pin!!
 
I saw Robert Gorham fly on friday..  He is good..  His transition from
normal to inverted flight are done 1' off the ground and in a small spot
extremely smoothly..  There was also another GMP "kid" there that had to
have just 12 years old..  he could dust me without any problems.  They
were all using the new elite head..  I have never seen more BB in a head
in my life!! its a work of art..  I also saw a version of the legend
that the servos fit in the side frame.  They claim they will not sell a
pod and boom version of this, it is for the scale buff.  They also had a
new tail rotor gear for use with a shaft drive (and a driven tail rotor)
Its totally slop free.  The new Rebel was also a surprise..  I thought
it was going to be just a big cricket but with the new nylon head its
remarkably stable.  It hovers just as well as a concept 30!
 
I need an Atari ST computer...  There was perfect heli simulator. 
Honestly, if someone has an old ST computer that they are willing to
part with, pls mail me what you want for it..  I need one for this
simulator.  its great!! complete with an invert switch, idle up and thr
hold..  Its $200 but I think it will make anyone a better pilot, and you
can keep your fingers worm in the winter!
 
Rave's was there showing off its 5 bladed head for the concept 30.  Also
there were some magics.  The one interesting thing about the magics I saw
was they were mounting the tail rotor's servo on the tail boom..??
 
The show was very large.  There were lots of little mfg that sold one or
two little car parts..  Tekin has a new 'soft pulse' charger that gives
batterys a - charge one in 10 pulses..  Lots of new parts for my YZ-10,
2 speed transmissions, trains that are programmable to go different
directions and speeds on the same track........  wow.. 
 
now if on can only recover in time for the Ohio show. 
 
			Rob

    re:....Airtronics is coming out with a new radio that has a large touch
    screen and you program what channel you want.....
    
    This is made possible I believe by Tom Mroz and Gene Engenglau for
    Control Systems Labs, they are the two guys that brought to sailplanes
    the ATRCS which went on to be the Airtronics VISION.  Keep a eye on
    these guys, and start switching all of your stuff to Airtronics......
    

Here are some Helo articles from the UUCP net.
Mostly centered around electrics.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

Article         2063
From: [email protected] (Ted Goldstein)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Electric Helicopters
Date: 7 Feb 90 19:53:43 GMT
Organization: Purdue University
 
 
     My father and myself have been considering getting into RC
Helicopters for some time now, but have been put off by the high
levels of cost, complexity and maintenence of the models. I recently
saw for the first time a new electric helicopter kit which seems
smaller, cheaper and possibly easier to keep running. I would like to
know if any experienced RC helicopter pilots have any recommendations
or information about this kit:
 
     Aisonic EH-550
     Length: 19.2" (480mm)
     Rotor Dia: 20" (500mm)
     Motor: 280 x 2
     Weight:19.25 oz. (550g) (w/ battery)
     Power: 8.4v/600mA Ni-cad or 9VDC hardwired
     Radio: Futaba 4NBL
     Servo: FP-S133
     Speed Ctrl: MCR-4A
     Price: $395 w/ body and nicads - no radio
 
They also have some kind of trainer attachment available, and will soon 
have a mini-gyro available. The price list includes many replacement parts.
 
Does this sound like a reasonable way to get into RC helicopters? I was
attracted by the low price, small size, and quiet indoor operation. Is
there something else I should be condsidering? Has anyone out there flown
one of these, or seen one fly?
 
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
Ted Goldstein
[email protected]

Article         2065
From: [email protected] (Rob Logan)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: Electric Helicopters
Date: 7 Feb 90 22:51:20 GMT
Sender: [email protected] (Rob Logan)
Organization: Clarkson University, Potsdam, NY
 
From article <[email protected]>, by [email protected] (Ted Goldstein):
>      Aisonic EH-550
I own one of these.  It's the hardest thing I have tryed to fly.  And it
only hops.  I can cut the grass inverted with my legend (still can't
hover nose in :-) but these little electrics are too hard for me. 
 
I will give you a great deal on mine EH-550, but I wouldn't wish it on
anyone.  Get a shuttle ZX with engine and recoil starter from Horwood
Hobby 315-353-6621 for $390. 
				Rob

Article         2072
From: [email protected] (From: [email protected] (Steve Stansbury))
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: Electric Helicopters
Date: 8 Feb 90 18:16:44 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: Data-IO Corporation; Redmond, WA
 
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Ted Goldstein) writes:
>
>     My father and myself have been considering getting into RC
>Helicopters for some time now, but have been put off by the high
>levels of cost, complexity and maintenence of the models. I recently
>saw for the first time a new electric helicopter kit which seems
>smaller, cheaper and possibly easier to keep running. I would like to
>know if any experienced RC helicopter pilots have any recommendations
>or information about this kit:
>
>     Aisonic EH-550
>     Length: 19.2" (480mm)
>     Rotor Dia: 20" (500mm)
>     Motor: 280 x 2
>     Weight:19.25 oz. (550g) (w/ battery)
>     Power: 8.4v/600mA Ni-cad or 9VDC hardwired
>     Radio: Futaba 4NBL
>     Servo: FP-S133
>     Speed Ctrl: MCR-4A
>     Price: $395 w/ body and nicads - no radio
>
>They also have some kind of trainer attachment available, and will soon 
>have a mini-gyro available. The price list includes many replacement parts.
>
>Does this sound like a reasonable way to get into RC helicopters? I was
- Don't be fooled ...
 
>attracted by the low price, small size, and quiet indoor operation. Is
- you can get a sixty sized bird for that price !
 
>there something else I should be condsidering? Has anyone out there flown
>one of these, or seen one fly?
>
>Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
>
For $249.00, you can get a Shuttle.  The advantages are :
---------------------------------------------------------
- easier to fly -> hence you'll learn quicker (LESS frustration).
- parts are readily available (you WILL NEED parts).
- cheaper ($69 for gyro, $275 for radio, $100 for engine) -> $693.00
  (eh-550 more for mini gyro, $50 for charger, $60 for battery packs, $169
   for radio, another $60 for additional mini servo) -> $814 ($80 for gyro).
- longer flights (15 to 20 minutes), the electric only flys for 4-5 minutes.
- more power, better error margin !
- won't have to wait for batteries to charge.
  can use a tether, but then is it really R/C ?
- able to auto in an emergency condition.
- easier to resell (oh yeah, DO KEEP this in mind !).
- the eh-550 is small, won't be doing forward flight, easily loose orientation.
- lots of them around, easier to get help getting it setup (trimmed out).
- I have seen it fly, it's a bit "squirrelly" in the air.
  And it was being flown by an experienced pilot.
- would hate to see someone get off on the wrong foot (this is one of the most
  opinionated hobbies, everyone has one, and opinions are FREE).
 
Disadvantages:
--------------
- cleaning after flying each time.
  put papers down where you store the chopper, leaks, oil drips, etc.
- harder to start in cold weather, overheating in hot weather.
- bitch to replace the glow plug.
- more power, more damage to chopper.
 
      I too would like to try an electric.  Maybe when the battery technology has
  caught up (like the 1000 milliamp packs that are the same size as the standard
  500 packs !).  I considered the Hirobo MH-10, which is said to be able to be
  converted to electric.  However Greg M. from GMP said it has 2 degrees of slop
  in the head, so I've given up on it.  Instead, my newest ship will be a Legend 
  Elite ... 
                                                                           - sos
                                                                           N7OAS

From: [email protected] (Norm Brososky)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Heli chat...
Date: 8 Feb 90 20:03:31 GMT
Organization: Computing Systems, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
 
I posted a message for Ted Goldstein and all and if it didn't get posted
I hope 
this one will.Here goes,this is about the EH-550 electric RC heli.I have
all the
equipment you listed and all I can do with it is hop around the living room and
scare my cats to death...Save your money and buy one of the name brands,such
as Schluter,GMP etc...I have found it easier to hover a Cricket without a gyro
then the EH-550,in my opinion it's a nice novelty to take to the field and when
someone asks you to fly it you can kill an hour or so chatting and laughing 
about it...I fly a Schulter Junior 50 and Champion.I also have a pussy cat to
hover around called a Hirobo Iama,what a machine.I started four years ago with
a Cricket,Heli-boy and Baron 20.I like the Schluter line and my next kit will
probably be the Magic by Schulter...Good luck Ted it's a great hobby..
Happy Hovering...Norm

From: [email protected] (Ted Goldstein)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Thanks for electric helicopter information !
Date: 9 Feb 90 16:34:09 GMT
Organization: Purdue University
 
I have received a number of replies to my posting about the EH-550 and
they all said the same thing: don't buy it; it's very hard to fly.
Well, based on these answers I certainly will not be buying an EH-550:
learning to fly a helicopter at all sounds hard enough without
starting out on one that even the experts can't fly. I will however be
investigating the recommended gas models further. The models that
people suggested I look into are the Concept 30 by Kyosho, the X-Cell
30 from Miniature Aircraft, and the Shuttle. Does anyone have any
comparisons or recommendations concerning these 3 models? And once again,
THANK YOU very much for all the information, boy am I glad I didn't order
the EH-550 on a spur-of-the-moment splurge as I was momentarily tempted
to do after reading their slick ad.
 
Ted Goldstein

From: [email protected] (Rob Logan)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: Thanks for electric helicopter information !
Date: 9 Feb 90 19:17:53 GMT
Sender: [email protected] (Rob Logan)
Organization: Clarkson University, Potsdam, NY
 
From article <[email protected]>, by [email protected] (Ted Goldstein):
> people suggested I look into are the Concept 30 by Kyosho, the X-Cell
> 30 from Miniature Aircraft, and the Shuttle. Does anyone have any
 
The best heli in my humble opinion is the Legend..  I love mine so much
have have two, one for parts :-) 
 
But if you are looking for a cheaper starter heli, the shuttle ZX with
21 ball barrings, larger gas tank, weighted blades, CG corrected flybar,
swing under head, medal clutch and longer tail boom makes it the clear
choice..  Plus you can get one with an OS32 with recoil starter
installed for $390.  General I don't like ARFs, but when you are
starting out with helis, its a lot easer to trim when it comes built. 
 
				Rob

From: [email protected] (Jack Gregory)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: What's wrong with electric choppers?
Date: 9 Feb 90 14:34:58 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: ICAD Inc., Cambridge, MA
 
 
I have read with interest the repeated threads on Electric
Helicopters.  The conversations sound vaguely familiar.  Electrics for
Helis are at an early stage.  When they first came out, electric cars
were criticized, but they have come to dominate the car end of our
hobby.  Every kid worth his salt wants or has one.  Gas is a minority.
The availability of batteries, engines, and hardware is amazing; a
large market really helps.  The availability of hardware has led to
viable electric boat racing, that is really not at all toylike or
juvenile; it is just clean and quiet.
 
When I started RC, electric planes were a joke (some would say they
still are); but the benefits are there.  Flying vehicles have a much
bigger hurdle to cross than surface vehicles: weight.  But electric
planes are here to stay, and helis will follow.
 
Rather than have all this religion batted around, I would like to hear
what the real issues are, and some analysis on how close they are to
being solved.  I haven't heard anything that sounded insurmountable.
Yes, they may have lower performance and shorter running time, but the
benefits of electrics should not be dismissed.  I personally will not
get into any gas hobby.  I have been there, and I just don't want to
deal with it.  I am literally waiting for electric viability in Helis,
which I have always wanted to work on, but don't want the gas engine
blues.
 
So let's be more constructive, and maybe we can help improve the
situation.  I have some ideas, based on my own desires.
 
1. How about leaving the batteries on the ground?  That gives plenty
of power (could even plug a transformer into the wall outlet), and
removes a major weight problem.  The chances of getting tangled up in
your own cable is large, but tethering methods have been around for
years.
 
2. How about trading off running time for performance?  What kind of
power can be generated in 3 minutes?  I personally would think that
sort of tradeoff to be acceptable.
 
3. What about new batteries?  I heard rumors of a Japanese battery
system which had a much higher power density than even akalines.  Has
anyone else heard or seen this?  I wish I could remember where I saw
it.
 
4. What are YOUR ideas?
 
--J Gregory

From: [email protected] (From: [email protected] (Steve Stansbury))
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: What's wrong with electric choppers?
Date: 10 Feb 90 22:44:05 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: Data-IO Corporation; Redmond, WA
 
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Jack Gregory) writes:
>
>I have read with interest the repeated threads on Electric
>Helicopters.  The conversations sound vaguely familiar.  Electrics for
>Helis are at an early stage.  
Primordial, or primeval, which ever you prefer.
Electric helis are as far down on the evolution scale as electric planes were
three years ago.  There are many electric airplanes now, and many still do not
fly well straight out of the box.  I have yet see a close electric compromise.
The Shuttle with an Astro 40, on a tether was the first electric I saw two
years ago, available from Hyatt Hobbies.  Next came (four so far) the 05
super mini electrics, that do not qualify "... as fliers".  I have considered
an electric cricket, but the weight/storage to flight time ratio is not good
enought to make the investment.  The best flying electric heli I have ever had
was a small plastic one on a flexcable.  Cost $10.00 (w/batteries), and lasted
for hours on two batteries.  I too, am eager to get an electric, but I don't
think is will happen until GMP or Hirobo (a real heli company) designs one.
Rumormill has it that Hirobo is working on one, will release it soon.  It's
not the MH-10.
 
>When I started RC, electric planes were a joke (some would say they
>still are); but the benefits are there.  Flying vehicles have a much
>bigger hurdle to cross than surface vehicles: weight.  But electric
>planes are here to stay, and helis will follow.
I built a twin electric, and it too, was a joke.  Built an Electra, it flew
(still flies).  Maybe after a few more years.  Gas is evoluving too, the Elite
is as far from the old Mantas as the Shuttle is from the Cricket !
 
>Rather than have all this religion batted around, I would like to hear
>what the real issues are, and some analysis on how close they are to
>being solved.  I haven't heard anything that sounded insurmountable.
>Yes, they may have lower performance and shorter running time, but the
>benefits of electrics should not be dismissed.  I personally will not
>get into any gas hobby.  I have been there, and I just don't want to
>deal with it.  I am literally waiting for electric viability in Helis,
>which I have always wanted to work on, but don't want the gas engine
>blues.
>
>1. How about leaving the batteries on the ground?  That gives plenty
>of power (could even plug a transformer into the wall outlet), and
>removes a major weight problem.  The chances of getting tangled up in
>your own cable is large, but tethering methods have been around for
>years.
This is R/C isn't ?  I have heard if u-control choppers, have yet to see one.
You could use the two control lines as + and - leads.  All I can see is hovering
while on a cable.  I did that for a year, now its time for forward flight !
 
>2. How about trading off running time for performance?  What kind of
>power can be generated in 3 minutes?  I personally would think that
>sort of tradeoff to be acceptable.
When you have to wait an hour for the channel "pin", do you want to only fly
for three minutes ?
 
>
>3. What about new batteries?  I heard rumors of a Japanese battery
>system which had a much higher power density than even akalines.  Has
>anyone else heard or seen this?  I wish I could remember where I saw
>it.
No.
 
>4. What are YOUR ideas?
Wait for the future, ".. neccessity is the mother of invention .."
 
                                                                       - sos
                                                                       N7OAS

Article         2088
From: [email protected] (Dana Eckart)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: What's wrong with electric choppers?
Date: 10 Feb 90 22:08:44 GMT
Organization: Radford University
 
 
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Jack Gregory) writes:
>
>I have read with interest the repeated threads on Electric 
>Helicopters.  
>	...  I am literally waiting for electric viability in Helis,
>which I have always wanted to work on, but don't want the gas engine
>blues.
>
>4. What are YOUR ideas?
 
Hmmm, I've been wondering why we don't see multiple main rotor designs.
These could be either front-and-back, egg-beater, or perhaps coaxial
designs.  Are these just to complex (and thus weighty) to really be 
possible?  I would think that if more of the energy was put into lift 
as opposed to anti-torque perhaps larger machines would be possible
(this goes for gas AND electrics).
 
Another thought has been that perhaps an electric gyroplane/gyrocopter
might be more efficient than the electric helicopters.
 
What do others think?
 
--dana

    In the UK there have been two such artf kits. The first some 8 or so
    years back was by Ishimasa. It was a conventional pod and boom. Drive
    came from two geared 550s. Flight from the internal pack (9.6V) was
    marginal, ok if the wind was blowing to give you some extra lift,
    although you needed to hand launch it. Usual use was via an umbilical cord,
    connected to an automobile battery. The cord drop with the current (20
    to 30A) reduced the motor voltage to around 10V. This was better, and
    useful in some ways for training, but of course you had to do the
    difficult thing straight off of hovering reasonably stationary because
    of the lead length. Unfortunately Mr Ishimasa the founder of the Japanese
    company died, the son apparently wound up the r/c operation as he
    wasn't interested in that side of the business.
    
    The latest one is by some company from Honk Kong, it's marketed in the
    UK as the Honey Bee. This sounds similar to the one described, although
    I can't remember if it's got two or one motors (I thought only one -
    I'll check). Again it's a pod and boom and very small and very expensive,
    and you also need buy the fet speed controller that's too is expensive.
    As for flight, I've seen one in action if you can call it that. They are
    really only suitable for indoors. Power is even more marginal, I think
    it managed around a half inch off the deck. After a few minutes use, it
    tipped back, catching the tail rotor - which promptly stripped the main
    power take off gear - from the owners comments it wasn't the first
    time.
    
    Another article I read was a guy who scratch built a 4 rotored (not
    overlapped) electric chopper. Had 4 geared 540s arranged in an X.
    Directional control was by altering power to the motors (i.e. forward -
    increase power to rear so it tilts etc) this was done electronically
    using signal mixing. I didn't see the follow ups.
    
    Certainly the calculations indicate it's possible, but the rotor has to
    have quite a large diameter and rotate slowly. Doesn't bode well for
    stability for pod/boom bell/hiller setups.
                                                
    Mark

More electric Helo stuff from the UUCP net.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

Article         2099
From: [email protected] (Jack Gregory)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: What's wrong with electric choppers?
Date: 12 Feb 90 13:56:53 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: ICAD Inc., Cambridge, MA
 
Steve Stansbury writes:
 
   I have considered
   an electric cricket, but the weight/storage to flight time ratio is not good
   enought to make the investment.
 
What do you mean by weight/storage here?
 
   I too, am eager to get an electric, but I don't
   think is will happen until GMP or Hirobo (a real heli company) designs one.
 
Exactly.  If all we have to judge on is junk, how can we make a judgement?
 
   >1. How about leaving the batteries on the ground?  That gives plenty
   >of power (could even plug a transformer into the wall outlet), and
   >removes a major weight problem.  The chances of getting tangled up in
   >your own cable is large, but tethering methods have been around for
   >years.
   This is R/C isn't ?  I have heard if u-control choppers, have yet to see one.
   You could use the two control lines as + and - leads.  All I can see is hovering
   while on a cable.  I did that for a year, now its time for forward flight !
 
Getting power from the ground doesn't preclude RC.  I meant to try
this as a first step.  To learn about all of the problems that will
need to be solved in addition to the power density, like cooling,
size, etc.  I think with a good arrangement you could do more than
hover.  And certainly it would be a useful training tool.
 
   >4. What are YOUR ideas?
   Wait for the future, ".. neccessity is the mother of invention .."
 
Why wait for someone else to do it?  I know I too said I was
"literally waiting" for electric helis, but there are a lot of
experimenters out there.  I just want to encourage constructive
innovation, instead of broadcasting to everyone that electric helis
are a bad idea.
 
--J Gregory

Article         2100
From: [email protected] (Jack Gregory)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: What's wrong with electric choppers?
Date: 12 Feb 90 14:01:26 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: ICAD Inc., Cambridge, MA
 
 
In article 742 Dana Eckart writes:
 
   Another thought has been that perhaps an electric gyroplane/gyrocopter
   might be more efficient than the electric helicopters.
 
I think the thing that helis have is hovering.  There is something
almost magical about hovering and slow manuevering near the ground.
Gyrocopters, despite their physical similarity to helicopters, always
have to move to stay up.
 
--J Gregory

Article         2101
From: [email protected] (Eric C. Garrison)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: What's wrong with electric choppers?
Date: 13 Feb 90 04:45:09 GMT
Organization: Purdue University
 
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Jack Gregory) writes:
>Gyrocopters, despite their physical similarity to helicopters, always
>have to move to stay up.
    Actually, an autogyro can be designed to lift vertically, but it cannot,
by definition, use the main rotor for movement.  This does simplify design
quite a bit.  I have been thinking about designing an electric autogyro.
The best thing about an electric one is that the horzontal motor can be shut
off completely.  Without this feature, it is nearly impossible to design an
autogyro that can hover.
    Thinking about it, useing an gas engine for vertical lift, and an electric
motor for horizontal control would work nicely, if you could get around the 
need for two seperate throttles.
Hmmm.
 
A. Hasara
[email protected]

	Not being too familiar with helicopters...

	A friend of mine is getting a severe wobble at the tail end when he 
	starts to pick up speed. When hovering or moving slowly the tail 
	seems happy - but once a little speed is picked up the tail behaves
	real funny. I don't fly these $ machines - my only thought would be
	his gyro (guess from notes read) is incorrectly setup. I have little 
	details of the the of heli. 																						


	Any thoughts ?

	Eric();

    Some items to check.
    
    	First make sure the main and tail rotors have been staticly
    balanced. This need to be accurate enough so that you can turn the
    rotor to any angle on the balancer and the rotor will remain
    stationary.
    	Next is dynamic balance. Put the chopper into a hover. Then
    set it back down and let it idel down until the main rotor stops
    spinning. Look from one blade tip to the other. You can usually
    see if the tip of one blade is ahead of the other. If the forward
    tip is ahead of the blade holders this blade is said to be "leading".
    If the blade look to be behind the blade holders this blade is
    said to be "lagging". Most times one blade is dead on and the other
    blade either leads or lags. If the blade leads then adjust the 
    flybar weight in front of the leading blade by moving it app 1?
    away from the paddle. Put the chopper into a hover and see if the
    tail shakes more or less. If less the move the weight in further
    and repeat the process. Do this until the shake comes back. Then
    reposition the weight where the best results were noted.
    
    
    Latter,
    
    
    Tom

    
    
    	To carry the "Lead/Lag" dynamic balance a little further...
    
    If it is observed that one blade is OK and the other "lags" then
    you adjust the weight behind the Lagging blade inward, similar
    the the "leading" blade. 
    
    Now I can see someone asking ""WHY"" ?????
    
    Dynamicly you have to think of the blades and the head as being
    divided into two halves. If you were to draw a line from one blade
    tip parallel to the leading edge of the blade, threw the two blade
    holder bolts and on out to the tip of the other blade you would
    be able to divide the head in a right and a left side. When a blade
    leads or lags it throws off the tip to tip balance causing one side
    of the head to weight more than the other side. By adjusting the
    weight on the end of the flybar you ar in essence making the two
    halves weight the same. 
    
    In most cases a shake in the tail will be seen. Adjusting the head
    for lead/lag will reduce the majority of this shake.
    
    Getting back to the problem within not .153 ... the speed of the
    rotor disk shouldn't change when the chopper goes into forward
    flight. If it does speed up the pitch curve is off and needs to
    be worked on. If the rotor speeds up and stays rotating faster 
    at full pitch then the engine can pull added pitch and the pitch
    curve should be increased to add pitch.
    
    What chopper is your friend flying???
    
    
    
                 Tom

    Why do blades Lead and Lag?
    
    
    Lead and lag are a function of the blades "span wise" balance. In
    making a set of blades I mark this balance point when then blade
    is new/sanded. This is done by placing a round rod/dowl on a counter
    top and then the blade onto the rod at app. a 60 degree angle. By 
    rolling the rod with your finger you can zero in on the balance point. 
    When the blade balances mark the location of the rod on the leading
    edge and the trailing edge of the blade. Now trun the rod 60 degrees
    in the opposite direction and repeat the process. When the blade
    balances the second time mark it at the leading and trailing edges
    of the balde. Connect these marks. Where they cross is where the
    span wise balance is. Using a square transfer this point to the
    leading edge of the blade. Repeat the process of the other blade.
    Now put the blades together leading edge to leading edge. See how
    far off these marks are. If they are with 1/32nd of an inch then
    your ok. next thing to do is to weight the blades. Blades are balanced
    in Grams. If you can measure in grains then more power to you.
    Mark on each blade their respective weights. If your span wise CG
    was off and the lighter blades CG is closer to the bolt pivot than
    the heavier blade then your in luck. If the span wise cg mark of
    the light blade is closer to the tip that the cg mark of the heavy
    blade then you have only one recourse. THROW THE BLADES AWAY.
    
    I am assuming that you're going to run weighted blades. If so then
    now is the time to fix the weight difference and the cg difference.
    Your trying to add as much weight as you can to the blades and 
    get the blades to weight within 3 grams of each other and get the
    span wise CG within 1/32nd of an inch. It's a balancing act :-)
    but one that can be done and yields positive results.
    
    Once you have weighted the blades you again check the span wise
    cg as detailed above. Then you cover the blades and again check
    the span wise Cg. If all checks out Ok your ready.
    
    
    Tom

    RE: .154
    
    Eric, 
    please define 'the tail behaves real funny'. From your description I'm
    going to guess that there's no vibration evident in the tail at hover
    or in slow forward flight. If the funny behavor in forward flight is
    the tail starts hunting from side to side then have your friend turn
    down the sensitivity of his gyro slightly. Having the gyro turned up
    too high can cause this problem in forward flight because the tail
    rotor produces more thrust due to the forward airflow traveling over it.
    What worked fine in a hover now oscilates in forward flight.
    
    
    Hope this helps.
    

    I could use a little help with a problem. My Concept 30 has screws that
    hold the body on and these screws go thru a grommet in the body. My
    problem is these grommets have deterioted(sp) into mush and fallen out.
    Can I live without these? Can they be replaced with something better?
    
    Ben

    Ben,
    	I'm sure that towers will sell you replacements. They should
    fit the best. I don't see any problem with omitting these excepting
    that the canopy will probably vibrate a little more and you could
    wear the hole in the plastic canopy. You could try two fauset washers.
    They make some with a bevel on one side. I'd guess a flat one on
    the inside with the beveled one (bevel pointed into the canopy)
    on the outside. A little CA might even hold then together.
    
    
    Tom

    RE:-1
    
     Sounds good. Thanks.
    
     I thought of filling in the body holes with silicone, then make a hole
    in the silicone to fit the screws thru. How's that sound?
    
    Ben

    I think silicone will end up being to soft.
    
    Tom

			
	     			Third Annual
			  New England Helicopter
	       			  Fly-In
			
    
    
Sponsored By:      Pioneer Valley Radio Control Club
		
		           May 5th & 6th,1990

    		Registration opens at 8:00 A.M. Saturday & Sunday
	

Awards: 	   "Best Scale"  &  "Best Pod and Boom"


Prizes:		   "Plaques", "End of Day Raffle" on Sunday
		  

Format:		   OPEN Flying, Three Flight Zones


Directions:	   Take route 91 to Enfield Ct. exit #48. Turn onto route 
		220 east. Travel 3.5 miles east on route 220.   The field 
		is on the right, directly after a set of railroad tracks.

		   Free parking. Food and refreshments at field.


Format:		   For   every  flight  recorded  you  will  receive   an 
	  	"End of Day"  raffle ticket.  On  Sunday  a  raffle  will
		be conducted to award prizes.   You must  be  present  to
		receive a prize. In addition a number of "SPECIAL" prizes
		will be awarded.



Information:	Contact, Tom Tenerowicz
			 167 Ely Ave.
			 West Springfield, Ma.
						01089

			 Contest CD, AMA Sanctioned

	  		 1(413)732-9713

    
    
    
    
    	Just a reminder to those chopper pilots or readers in the local
    New England area. This event is this coming weekend. So far the
    weather reports have been changing for the good. They are now
    prediction that the rains of thursday and friday will clear late
    friday night into sat. morning. Hopefully should be a great two
    days. I'll probably be out until tuesday. 
    	For thise that don't make it but do fly at their home fields
    have a good weekend of flying.
    
    
    						Regards
    
    
    						Tom

    I need some help from our friends across the pond. I have found out
    that there is a magazine named "Radio Helicopter USA" that comes from a
    distribution house in England. I tried to get in touch with this
    distribution house but the operator said I did not have enough numbers
    for the phone number. Here's what I got....
    
    Shelley House
    104 High St.
    Steyning West Sussex BN4 3rd. England
    Phone# (0903) 815622/816111
    
    This is just the way it reads on the brochure so I don't know what the
    problem is. Any help would be welcomed.
    
    Ben

        Ben,
        
        The number you quote here looks ok as a UK number, but my guess
        is that you  kept  the  first  '0'  in  the  area  code.    For
        international dial-up, you have to drop the leading '0'.
        
>    Phone# (0903) 815622/816111
             ^
             |
        drop this
        
        From the US, you'd dial:
        
        011 44   903  815622   OR   011 44 903 816111
        ^^^^^^   ^^^ 
        UK code  Area code in UK
        
        Hope this helps - let us know how it goes.
        
        Andy
        

    
    
    	This past saturday my club did a benifit rc demo for MIlton
    Bradley. The game makes. They have a large facility in East Longmeadow
    Ma. and were sponsoring a walk/run for their employees to raise
    money for the Childrens Miracle Network Telethon. Because of the
    area we only flew choppers. The day worked out great with seven
    guys showing up to fly and display aircraft. I had a problem with
    the webra 60 motor in my King Cobra so was grounded. The throttle
    arm on the carb is swedged to a collar. This came loose (again).
    I did get in one hovering flight with a buddies Excell 40. For
    taking part we each recieved a "T" shirt with the Childrens Miracle
    Network Logo, Food, beverage and at the end of the demo we each
    got one beer from the beer wagon they had. The employees of Milton
    Bradley raised over 10K in this run/walk. I talked to the organizer
    of the event and she was quite pleased with the response we got
    with the demo. I hink they may ask us back next year.
    
    
    						Tom

    Flying helicopters has a very big disadvantage.  I have had two
    crashes that can be blamed on radio failure.
    The first one was after a very minor crash.  After I replaced the
    main rotors and a few other minor repairs, I brought the chopper
    up to the field and range checked the radio.  It range checked
    very nicely.  I then started the chopper up and placed it in the
    field to prepare to take off.  I just started to give it some
    gas and collective, and the thing went full throttle and full
    collective.  It performed about 7/8 of a loop from takeoff.
    (My first and last loop).  The chopper crashed in the pits.
    I then took the receiver out and found out that the previous
    crash had broken a wire in one of the IF cans.  I could not
    order just the can, so I sent the radio into JR and they replaced
    the can for me.  (That was the only problem).  If this had been
    a fixed wing, I could have done some range checking with someone
    holding the plane and applying throttle at the same time.  It would
    have probably showed up the problem.
    
    The second radio failure I had was a servo that quit.  This was
    the cyclic servo for a roll.  The servo went to one extreme, causing
    the chopper to do 2 1/2 rolls.  (These were the only rolls I have
    done to date.)  I doubt that a range check with full throttle would
    have found this since I had flown 2 or 3 flights that day before
    the problem hit me.  
    
    Moral:  If you can, not only range check, but range check with the
    engine running while cycling the throttle.
    
    Ken

    
    	Ken, One of our chopper pilots donated a "Run Up" stand to our
    field. It's made of a tire rim that has a steel post welded in the
    center and then the top of the rim is filled with cement. On the
    top of the post is a flat section of steel. Weights about 100 lbs.
    The top steel plat has a series of holes drilled in it for securing
    the chopper with Tie wraps. We've had the stand about three months.
    So far it's found one cracked crystal.
    
    
    
    						Tom

    I was in the AMA conference on COMPUSERVE last night and came across
    and interesting note. The 1991 AMA Helicopter Nationals will be held
    at Lawerenceville, Ill again. Not sure what that means for the rest of
    the Nats. I thought they were shooting for Chicopee (sp), MA again.

    
    	For those within and outside of the chopper world... It's been 
    reported that GMP (Gorham Model Products) in under a restructuring
    effort.  This is no doubt in part responsible due to their debt
    with dealing with Hirobo.  There was a split of Hirobo and GMP 
    app. 1.5 years ago spurred on by GMP problems paying their bills.
    	The lattest rumor I've heard is that GMP has sent out a flier
    that basicly says that they are out of business.  I do know
    that parts are very limited. 
    
    
    						Tom

I got home last night and found a big white envelope waiting for me. Inside was 
a complementary copy of the magazine Heli Scene. Nice magazine with a very 
familiar look. The magazine is being published by Collin Camerron-Tough who used
to publish RC Helicopter that went under about two years ago. 

The editorial column gives all of the sorry details of what happened to him in 
the past two years and explains the effort he went thru to make sure that all 
accounts were settled from the old magazine. In fact, he says if the old 
magazine still owes you money, you need to contact this other company for a 
refund. 

The rest of the magazine looks ok with lots of color pictures. In fact, there's
an introductory article by Terry Cook (I think???) that explains that the 
magazine will print color photes exclusively. One negative thing I did notice 
was the magazine was a little out of date with regard to the happenings at GMP
and Miniature Aircraft.

They want $36 for a US subscription. Currently, I can't find any exclusively
helicopter magzines locally so I'll probably subscribe. Collin Camerron-Tough
did act honorablely about making sure his debts got paid and I did get my money
back from the old mag when it went under. I figure he deserves another chance.

Anybody got some documentation with a Hughes 500E 3-view in it they could copy 
and send to me? I haven't been able to hunt one down on the E model. The 500E
has a pointy nose as compared to the older round version.

Thanks

Anyone out there actually watched a scale helicopter competition run by 
AMA rules?

What I'm curious about is how you fly the events. The events listed in the AMA 
rule book seem to flow into a continuous sequence, ie.. 30 second hover, 45 
degree climb out, rectangular flight pattern, circular flight pattern. Are they
actually flown in a continuous sequence or are they flown sequencially in the
setup, call maneuver, perform maneuver, call maneuver finished format?
                                                        /     \ /
Dan Eaton - Demented                                   /      / \ 
            Dragonfly                                 /       #  
            Pilot                                    /        #
                                                    /        #
                                                   \       # 
                                                  //@@@ #
                                                 / l @##  .  
                                                /   #@   .
                                               /        .
                           @                  /       \.
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                            l 
                                                       

    RE: .174
              I'll look thru the mags I've got and see what I can find.
    
    RE: .175
              The last one I went to was call pattern, fly pattern.

    RE: .174
    
     Sorry, I could not find the "E".

RE: .177

Thanks for looking.

It looks like it's a moot point anyway. When I asked I was planning to try my 
luck in the scale contest at the Kyosho Fly-In  June 8th. Then work went 
berserk and all the time I thought I had to prepare went out the window. 8^(

It's been so busy my wife complained that our present relationship is based 
strictly on sex (that's news to me! 8^)  ). She says I get up and kiss her
good morning, get ready for work, and kiss her goodbye. Then I come home late,
kiss her hello, she gets ready for bed after an ehausting day with the kids, and
we kiss goodnight. Nothing but sex, sex ,sex. 8^)

I bought another helicopter last night. Actually, just most of a GMP Competitor
for $50. For that price, I got everything but the swashplate and head. I also
got numerous spare parts, must be about 4 main blade sets and 6 or 7 tail rotor
sets, a couple of main shafts, and 3 fin sets. 

I had stopped by the local helicopter shop last night to pick up a servo lead 
and got to shooting the breeze with the owner. A friend of mine had picked up 
a complete Competitor with OS61 engine for $150 a month ago. I had told the
owner I was interested in finding a deal on a used Cobra for parts so when I
came in he said he had a box for me. He said he's been seeing a lot of GMP 
copter's come in for sale dirt cheap. He said its mostly a psychological issue
since parts are readily available from Tech Specialty (though at higher prices).

I took it home and told the wife I had solved the problem of what the kids 
should get me for Father's Day. That got me out of trouble for spending the 
money but ment I got the stuff taken away from me so it could be wrapped up to
'surprise' me Sunday. So I went down to the shop and spent some time masking
off the Hughes 500 fuselage for my Concept in preparation for painting. Hope 
to get the first color on tonight. This projects been sitting on the shelf
for about nine months now so its time to get this baby out the door.
                                                        /     \ /
Dan Eaton - Demented                                   /      / \ 
            Dragonfly                                 /       #  
            Pilot                                    /        #
                                                    /        #
                                                   \       # 
                                                  //@@@ #
                                                 / l @##  .  
                                                /   #@   .
                                               /        .
                           @                  /       \.
                          _/\
                            /\_
                            l 
                                                       

    
      I think I have finally made headway on getting the Shuttle back on
    track. I was having problems with a sticky collective mechanism. Last 
    Thursday night, I disassembled the componants on the main shaft, removed 
    the shaft, and then used 1000 grit paper to lightly sand the shaft to
    remove any slight irregularities.
    
      Then I reassembled everything, and noticed two things:
    
      1. The pin on the washout assemble was slightly bent which created
         some friction as the collective was cycled, so I straightened the
         pin.
    
      2. The yokes that screw into the bell mixers where too tight, which
         caused them to bind as the collectice was cycled. A slight turn
         outward, and the collective really smoothed out! I think this was
         the major cause of my problems. (Wayne, if you are having problems
         with a sticky collective on your Shuttle, go back and check these 
         out )
    
     After reassembling everything, I went back and reset the pitch curves.
    For the first time in a long time, the pitch curve remained stable, and
    would return to the same settings each time. The problem seems 90%
    cured, but I will probably change the servo back to a 4131 to get the
    servo slop out of the mix.
     
         
        Yesterday, I got to get 3 flights in. It was very windy, but the
    Shuttle was flying pretty well. The collective problems seem to be
    gone, and after fine tuning the pitch/throttle, I spent most of the 
    session fine tuning the engine needles. Now I am just going to wait for
    a calm day to get the revolution mixing, stunt trim, etc dialed in. 

    
    
     Wayne,
    
         The class I manuvers gave me trouble because I was not used to
    hovering with the skids at eye level. It created disorientation
    problems for me. As I have got more used to hovering at that level,
    the manuvers are starting to look better. It was frustrating at the
    contest, because I can do a fair amount of things with a chopper,
    but it was clear that hovering with the skids at eye level was NOT 
    one of them! :)
    
         The performance problems I am having do not show up all during
    hover, but rather at full power, especially at high speed pull ups
    where the engine tends to lean out.
    
         I will keep you posted on my fuel trials. The other thing I am
    starting to wonder is if my pitch guage is inaccurate, and I am setting
    too much pitch in? An interesting note is that we are both using S/W
    15% fuel, and we have both had to decrease the pitch at full power on
    the Shuttles, and me on the X-cell. A Shuttle should be able to handle
    8 1/2 - 9 degrees of pitch, and the X-cell should be able to handle 9.
    
         Time for the .46 conversion for the Shuttle. They climb REAL well
    with 11 degrees of pitch! :)
    

Currently the biggest problem I am having with my XCell is that I
occasionally will get a severe twitch on the aileron channel of my JR
XF622. When it happens in flight it causes the XCELL to make a VERY
noticable jump. At first I thought it was outside interference (the
field I fly at has had interference problems in the past). Now I don't
think so. I have 2 of these radios and both have lots of flights on them
and I have never had a problemm in the past. The problems started when I
put the radio in the XCell. I also noticed the problem on the bench last
night when I was making some pitch adjustments. There is a used Futaba
gyro in the XCell, it is the low end model with bushings instead of Ball
bearings. My current thinking is that the motor in the gyro is producing
some type of localized interference. I have another gyro and am going to
put that in the XCell and see if things improve.

Wayne  

Might want to swap out the Rx as well to verify that it isn't a cold/bad solder
joint on the connector for that channel on that Rx.

(it's a plus that it can be observed on the bench)

Might want to swap out the Rx as well to verify that it isn't a cold/bad solder
joint on the connector for that channel on that Rx.
>
> Actually I have 2 JR XF622 radios and I have already swapped
> everything except the gyro. Both radios exibit the problem to an
> extent, but one is much worse. Also both radios have seen extensive
> use since I got them at the beginning of the summer and I've never had
> the slightest glitch from either radio until I installed them in this
> particullar helicopter. To try and verify that the gyro is causing the
> problem, I was planning to install the receiver that exibits the
> problem the most, and then change the gyro. Since the problem shows up
> on the bench, it should be pretty easy to tell if it is fixed or not.
>

    
    Wayne,
    
      When my Futaba (bushing) Gyro went:
    
         a. I fell down a lot
    
         b. The rudder response was erratic, with the chopper performing
            an occasional instant 720 degree turn (unintentially).
          
         c. All of the above
    
    
      NO, the answer is NOT a. (or c. :)
    
         Sounds like the gyro could be the problem. Just unhook it (on the
     bench), and see if the problem goes away. Another possibility is a
     bad bearing somewhere else in the chopper ( controls, mainshaft, etc )
                                      

Speaking of  "Futaba (bushing) Gyro"

I took my Concept 30 out for a bit Monday night. When I turned on the reciever I
noticed the Gyro was making more racket than normal. A quick flight attempt 
confirmed that something was wrong with the gyro. I took the heli over to the 
workbench at the field and pulled the gyro out. Taking the case off revealed 
that one of the centering springs had jumped off its post. I reset it and 
put the case back on. When I powered the reciever up things sonded much better.
I was holding the gyro in my hand so I started moving it around to make sure 
things were responding correctly. All of a sudden it starts making a lot of 
racket again. I opened the case up and found the other spring had jumped off.
While I was fiddling with the spring the right flywheel slid off the shaft and 
dropped to the bench. Must have just decided to let go. I'm going to put it 
back on with some lock tight and see if the springs stay put then. 

    
      When my Futaba gyro started screwing up, I also suspected the springs,
    but unfortunately, they were fine. Something else just let go.
    
      
     

Well I replaced the gyro in my XCell 50 and have been able to put in
about 6 flights without any glitches. It looks like that problem is
probably solved. I have now turned my attention back to finishing my
XCell 60 kit. I spent all last night (and I mean ALL) installing the
cooling fan and clutch on the OS 61 SX. What a nightmare. When I first
installed the fan, there was about .010" of runout (should be < .002").
After dissasembling and re assembling the thing about 5 times, the best
I could get was .005" runout. I refaced the engine drive washer and
then was able to get the runout down to .001". That solved the first
problem. Then when I mated the clutch to the cooling fan, there was
almost .040" of runout (almost off the scale on my dial indicator) afte
playing with losening and tighening a shifting things around. the best
I could get was .015" of runout (still way too much). So I removed the
clutch and reversed it. After much more losening and tightening, and
fiddling I had the clutch shaft running with less than .001" at the
base, and no measurable runout at the tip of the shaft. From then on
everything went smoothly. I guess the bottom line is that it took 6
hours to assemble 3 parts and get them running true. 
     

    
       Wayne,
    
          I was luckier ( and I cheated :). My fan came in perfect on the
    first try. I have heard the collets vary widely, and sometimes you
    need to try several before one will work.
    
          On the clutch, I decided to forgo the hassle,and just bought
    a Bergen self-adjusting clutch. It was great, just toss it in, and move
    to the next step! The minus side is it was $35
    
          Good luck on the assembly.
    
                                                         Dan
    
    

    Eric and I had the pleasure of meeting Wayne at the Loopers field last
    Friday. Wayne seems to be an accomplished heli pilot. Eric and I
    were commenting on how windy it was and we were flying GREMLINS, yet
    Wayne put a couple of flights in regardless.
    
    I didn't hint around for any stick time as we had just met. Give me
    time.......8^)

    
       Yesterday, I decided to head to the Merrimack field and take advantage
    of a nice November day. Before leaving, I decided to take an hour and
    re-tune both my choppers in my backyard.
       I clamped the X-cell to my workmate and attempted to fuel it up.
    This is where I ran into my first breakdown. For some reason, I had
    forgot to install a diode in the plug that leads from my new Hobbico
    charger to the 9.6 volt pack I have installed on my fuel pump. The pump
    was dead as a doornail. As a precaution, I checked the X-cell RX pack
    and the 12v Gellcell that I also charge off this charger, but they were
    fine ( they have diodes installed). I quick charged the fuelpump
    battery enough to get me going again, and then put it on charge at
    250mah for an hour while I was fooling with the helis.
    
        Then, it was back to adjusting the X-cell. I found I had to lean
    out the high end needle about 6-7 clicks due to changing to Cool Power
    fuel. I also ended up significantly reducing the high end pitch to
    get the rotor speed up to where it belongs. Another problem I found was
    the tracking was out on the main rotor, so I readjusted that.
        After I was done with the X-cell, it was the same routine for the
    Shuttle. The Shuttle didn't require any high end need changes, so all
    I ended up doing was some fine tuning of the rotor speeds on the idle
    up. 
    
        At the field, The results were mixed. I flew the Shuttle first, and
    found it idled better than ever, but the midrange was very erratic. I
    think the problem is that is isn't on the high end needle at hover, and
    keeps switching back and forth between the high and low end needles.
    The top end performance seemed about the same ( as I would have
    expected).
    
        The X-Cell on the other hand wouldn't idle worth sh*t, the mid
    range was rough (same problem as the Shuttle), but the high end is
    working great! It now has very good vertical acceleration when you
    "punch it", and the forward flights speeds and climb are significantly
    improved. For the first time, it has the performance where I would 
    consider doing aerobatics with it. I probably attribute most of the high 
    end improvment to adjusting the pitch curve down vs. using the new fuel, 
    but at this point, its hard to tell.
    
         Now, If I can just get the midrange  (and the X-cell's idle
    settled down ) Arrggh! :)
    
                                                  Keep 'em spinnin!
        
      

I finally finished my XCell 60 and test flew it over the weekend. The
only problem was getting the OS .61 SX to run well enough to actually
lift it off. It took almost a full tank of fuel spent fiddling with the
idle adjustment to get it to run smooth enough that I wasn't afraid it
was going to shake itself to pieces. I couldn't beleive how rough the
engine was running at first. Just sitting at a high idle without the
rotor spinning the tail fins were shaking up and down almost a 1/2".
After many small adjustments to the idle screw I finally got the low
end adjusted so that the engine was running smoothly (still on the rich
side).  I brought it up into a hover, and everything was finally was
running nice and smooth so I just spent a couple of tanks of fuel
hovering. I finally got up the nerve to try some forward flight, and
was very pleasntly surprised at how smooth (and how fast) it goes. It
still has a long way to go to perfecting the mechanical setup, but the
initial flights are very promising.

Dan,

I noticed you have been setting up your machines on a test stand. I have
a couple of questions.

Do the settings really work out the same with a static load verses an
actual in flight load?

Do you actually know your rotor RPM, or are you setting things up by ear ?

I considered setting my machines up on a stand and adjusting my pitch
curves based on a tach, but was concerned that things would be
drastically different in flight, so far my machines are just tuned so
that they seem to fly well.

I have considered getting a SkyTac so that I could really fine tune my
pitch setups, but the expense has put me off so far.

Wayne.

    
    
    Wayne,
    
      The static settings seeem to be pretty close to in-flight loads. I
    have been treating it somewhat like an airplane, and assuming the
    engine will lean out in forward flight, so I find the optimum RPM, and
    then back off a few clicks. It gets you in the "ballpark and section",
    but you still have to fiddle to get "row and seat". I would not
    bother with static setups unless you can't get it to run right using
    flight testing ( which was my case).
    
       I do not have a Skytac, but I don't plan to be without one for
    long. Right now, I am just going by "what sounds right". The
    interesting thing is when I had the X-cell originally set up at hover,
    and we checked it with a Skytac, it came out at 1500, which is just
    about where I wanted it. 
    
       I also have had vibration (tail shake) problems with the SX at low
    end. It seems it is very easy to set it too rich at the bottom, and the
    symtoms I had were similar to having the gain cranked up too much on
    the Gyro. Yesterday, I started having vibration problems at the low end
    and hover again, so I need to do more adjusting. I had it all working
    pretty well at the low end and hover before switching fuels, so I am
    not sure what is causing the problems.
    
                                                      Got to go,
    
                                                            Dan
    

    
    This note is a follow up to the X-cell Crash I posted in note 1639.0
    "Lunchtime Excitement"
    
      This weekend I got a chance to dig further into the X-cell and start
    the re-build process. The bad news is that as I continue to dig, I am
    finding additional damage.
    
      I have basically rebuilt the rotor head ( but haven't installed the
    flybar yet). In addition to the parts listed in the base note, I had
    to replace (3) blade holder bearings, and additional Delta III offset
    plate, guide pins, the static tracking hardware, and another piece
    inside the yoke ( can't think of the name, but 2 bearings attach to
    it ).
    
      I removed the mainshaft and swashplate, and found another bad bearing
    on the mainshaft. It also looks like the bearing in the swashplate may
    be junk, neccesitating replacement of the swashplate.
    
      I came across an interesting observation when I was checking out the
    swash plate that may point to the cause of the crash. In addition to some
    twisted linkage, I discovered the entire anti-rotation link missing. This 
    is significant because the antirotation link bolt goes through the rear 
    elevator linkage and then attaches directly to the swashplate. Since the 
    ENTIRE linkage (including the bolt) is missing, it is unlikely it came loose
    in the crash, but more likely vibrated loose in flight, possibly
    causing the crash due to limited/no elevator control. I haven't
    had a chance to really check it out yet, but the "NTSB" is now leaning
    toward mechanical failure as the cause of the crash. This type of
    thing would NOT cause a problem on the Shuttle, but the pull/pull
    linkage on the X-cell is different.
    
       In taking with Bob Brodeur and Charlie Watt, they both reminded me
    that since I was flying PCM, I shouldn't have had an abrupt directional
    change if it went into failsafe ( I have the failsafe set to "Hold" ).
    I did have an abrupt directional change, follwed my more changes. It
    could be the initial "pitching down" of the chopper was due to the
    link popping out.
    
       All in all, I would be very happy to find out it WASN'T a radio
    failure that caused it. If that is the case, I could still feel
    comfortable about flying at Merrimack in the future.
    
        The other parts I ordered should be in tommorrow ( tail boom, drive
    shaft, tank, etc ). I will make my daily trip to RC Buyers today to pick up
    the linkages, bearing, and anti rotation link. Luckily, they are close
    by, otherwise I would be in a real mess! :).
    
                                                            DW2

    Dan, that's interesting.  In other words, your current theory points to
    a mechanical failure, instead of a radio hit.  You must be getting real 
    good at this kind of detective work.
    
    Re, your daily trip to RC Buyers:  Why not just go on-line so you can
    order everything electronically from the comfort of your workshop.  
    We have the technology ....  
    
    Regards,
    Joe

    
       Joe,
    
         I won't know for sure until I get the new parts and re-assemble
    the swashplate and linkage. Then I can disconnect the part that was
    missing, and check the effect on the controls. I think the two radio
    hits on Saturday "spooked" me, and I initially headed off on the wrong 
    track diagnosing the crash. 
    
         Re: ordering online.
    
             It is faster to order on-line, but delivery takes longer. It
     is far more efficient to go the 1 mile out of my way on the trip home,
     and have the parts in hand a few minutes later :). I hope RC Buyers
     doesn't go out of business ( I know I am doing MY BEST to make sure
     they don't :), otherwise I would have to start being planful about
     these re-building processes :).
    
          
    

Is there someone online that we can order through? 

    Yes, I believe that Towers has a compu-serve internet address and will
    take orders via email...
    
    Now, in general, I know that credit card security is a myth, but I 
    am not so sure I want my mastercard number going through god only
    knows how many systems, each one with the ability to log every
    character....
    
    cheers,
    jeff
    

I'd be more interested in a procmail service that allows you to check
availability given actual catalog numbers. I wouldn't mind a browsable catalog
either 8^)

Actually, I did already know about a battery company with these capabilities.
I'll drop a reference in the battery and manyfacturer's topics.

                                                  
       Just when I thought it was safe to stop the crash diagnosis, and get
    on with the rebuild process, a get another couple of curve balls.
    
       I talked to Doug (?) and Wally (?) down at RC Buyers last night when I
    went in to pick up my daily bag o' bits. They both have experience with
    helis, and Wally has been flying RC helis for 14 years and has a lot of
    X-cell experience.
    
       I talked to them about my theory of the anti rotation link pulling
    loose in flight and casuing the crash. They both said that they had
    seen bolts/ball links get torn loose from the swashplate on impact on 
    several occasions. The shear force of the crash can rip them from their 
    threads. They also said that I should still have had elevator control 
    even if the rear linkage fell off. I went home, checked the swashplate and
    linkage, and it basically confirmed what they had said. So, the
    mechanical failure theory again seems takes a back seat. 
     
        At this point, I resigned to needing to purchase a new swashplate
    due to the loose threads and a  bad bearing in the swashplate.
    
        I went back down to RC Buyers to get the swashplate, and ended up
    talking with them some more. When I mentioned that it was an X-Cell
    PRO, Wally immediately informed me that there have been more than a few
    unexplained PCM "lockups" with X-Cell PRO helicopters using PCM 
    recievers, several causing crashes. The regular X-Cells don't seem to 
    have the problem, so either the Carbon Fiber or the linkages (unique to
    the PRO ) might be causing the problem. They said they had witnessed a 
    couple unexplained PCM "lockups" on PROs, and that usually if you have 
    sufficient altitude, it will recover.
        This information was interesting, if not conclusive. I had an
    unexplained "glitch" with the PRO at the C-MASS field a couple months ago 
    where it looked like it was SURE to crash, but  recovered at the last 
    second. I attributed the "glitch" at the time to the new Sundance Gyro I 
    had installed, but haven't had any problem with that gyro since 
    installing it in the Shuttle. Combining that incident with last week's
    crash has me thinking (and worried).
    
        Sooo, at this point, the Crash diagnosis road is turning back 
    towards radio interference, more specifically interference being 
    generated by the heli itself, and not an external souce ( of course, 
    there is really NO way to know where the interference may have come from ).
    
        At this point, I will just continue the rebuild process, and MAY
    consider using an FM reciever ( if only for a test period) to see if
    I can unearth any minor interference (ie; bad bearing) before it
    becomes a critical problem.
    
    
        I hope 1995 is a better year for me with RC, it has been, and
    continues to be a VERY frustrating 1994 season! 

I think you need to build another dozen Gremlins!

Seriously, I was warned with my fun-fly plane to keep the Rx antenna away from
the CF boom. It acts as a pretty effective sheild so depending on the
orientation of the chopper and antenna, you could have blanked out part of your
signal.

Go through the exercise:

Where is the antenna routed?
What pieces are CF?
What was the orientation when control was lost?
How did these pieces line up at the time?

Going into failsafe with hold last would make it appear to have lost control and
I believe it needs a few good frames before it comes back out of failsafe. Did
the orientation get "better" during the dive?

Jim (playing suppose)

                                                                       
    
        This weekend, I finally got around to building a new set of rotor
    blades for the X-cell. I went with the original 690mm "Pro" blades. The
    interesting thing is this set seems to be symetrical, where as the
    original set were semi-symetrical. The instructions still refer to them
    as semi, but if they are, they are barely semi. This is all fine
    anyways as I prefer the fully symetrical blades.
    
        At this point, I have all the mechanicals rebuilt. The only work
    remaining is to cover/balance the blades, attach the tail boom, cut out
    / tint a new canopy window, and do a slight repair/repaint the canopy.
    The repainting will be the toughest to get done, as the weather needs
    to get a bit warmer :). Among NUMEROUS other parts, I ended up replacing 
    9 different bearings throughout the chopper that were either worn out or 
    rusted from its "bath" in the creek.
        Another point of interest is I mounted the Gyro on the front of the
    radio try (instead of right behind the main mast where it is usually
    located). Curtiss Youngblood has his gyro mounted on his Futura in
    this location.  I asked him why he did it that way, and he said he 
    believes its more important to place the Gyro in an area of minimum
    vibration vs worrying about if its close to the CG ( But what does HE
    know :). It will be interesting to see what the difference (if any) it
    makes.
    
    
        I have been taking my time doing the rebuild, as I don't plan to
    fly it again until spring (At this rate, I will finish my BOXER a day
    AFTER Jim C. completes his! :). Between now and then, I am  going
    to send my TX module/reciever out to JR to do a frequency change. I
    will probably end up dropping it from 41 to 33 to get free and clear
    of the problems that seem to be showing up at Merrimack in the 40
    range. It may have nothing to do with the crash, but I am trying to
    cover ALL possible bases.
                            
                                                                    Dan
    
                                                          
    

    
    
        Over the X-mas weekend, I finished the X-cell rebuild including
    covering/balancing the rotor blades. This was the first time I used an
    adhesive covering on the blades and it was a bit tricky, but the
    results came out satisfactory. I ended up using self adhesive
    Monocote because I wanted gray blades instead of the standard white
    color provided with the blades.
    
        On Tuesday, I spent about 1 1/2 hours sanding down the Canopy to
    prepare it for repainting. I was able to remove several layers of the
    Century 21 Black, but a few layers of the black remained.
    
        Yesterday, I tried to take advantage of the relatively warm weather
    to paint the new set of fins, and repaint the canopy. The paint scheme
    I chose was Orange for one side of the Vertical fin, White on the other
    side. The horizontal fin will be Orange on top, and White on the
    bottom. The Canopy will be Orange on Top, and White on the bottom.
    
        I was able to successfully paint the fins White and Orange, and the 
    bottom of the canopy, White. The White covered the remaining
    Black with no trouble. The problem came when I tried to paint Orange
    over the Black, NO WAY! I now need to sand the orange off, paint over
    the Black with White, and THEN apply the Orange.
         At this point, I am considering building a small paint booth in the
    basement. I am tired of waiting for the weather to be perfect outside.
    Its even a pain in the summer, with wind and insects. I have started to
    sketch out a 4 by 8 foot booth. Now, all I have to do is clear an area
    that big in the basement! :)
    
       Last evening, I removed the radio and Gyro and sent both of them
    (along with the TX module) to JR to be checked out. I am also
    requesting JR to change the frequency of the RX and TX to channel 31.
       
       At this point, the rebuild is complete until I get the radio stuff
    back, and can paint the canopy. Its time to finish off the Gremlin I
    was building before the crash!
     
                                                          Dan

Dan,

I was wondering if you had made any further progress with your XCell. I
was also wondering what exhast system you have been using on your Xcell.
The reason I'm asking is that I have been having severe interference
problems with my XCell 60, and I think the problem is caused by metal to
metal noise inside my KSJ machined muffler. I plan on replacing the
exhaust system, and was wondering if you had any recommendations.

Wayne

    
    
         I finished re-painting the canopy and last night I cut out the
    lexan window, tinted it, and installed it in the canopy. At this
    point I am just waiting for JR to return my radio/gyro ( hopefully
    by the end of this week) and then I will do final setup.
    
         I am using the Minature Nitro-pipe thats made for the PRO. I
    am not real pleased with it ( I think it is robbing power ) and will 
    probably switch to a Hatori (606?) when I get the chance. I originally 
    wanted to install the KSJ, but it won't fit the PRO. I would recommend 
    the Hatori ( about $100 ). Its funny you are having problems, as one
    of the main selling points of the KSJ is "one piece" construction

        <<< Note 366.205 by WMOIS::WEIER "Keep those wings spinning!" >>>
                                  -< Hatori >-

    
>    
>         I finished re-painting the canopy and last night I cut out the
>    lexan window, tinted it, and installed it in the canopy. At this
>    point I am just waiting for JR to return my radio/gyro ( hopefully
>    by the end of this week) and then I will do final setup.
>    
>         I am using the Minature Nitro-pipe thats made for the PRO. I
>    am not real pleased with it ( I think it is robbing power ) and will 
>    probably switch to a Hatori (606?) when I get the chance. I originally 
>    wanted to install the KSJ, but it won't fit the PRO. I would recommend 
>    the Hatori ( about $100 ). Its funny you are having problems, as one
>    of the main selling points of the KSJ is "one piece" construction
>
    While the KSJ doesn't have any of the silicone couplers that most
    helicopter exhast systems have, it is made of several
    pieces. The outer shell  is made of 3 pieces
    which thread together and are locked together with set screws.
    It also has internal baffles which are not permanently attached.
    What I suspect is happening is that the baffles are vibrating inside
    and are causing metal to metal noise problem.

    At this point I have replaced everything else I can think of. I have
    swapped out ALL of the radio gear including the gyro. I have also
    gone through the mechanical setup, and have the chopper running VERY
    smoothly. At this point, if it isn't the muffler, then I'm pretty well
    out of ideas. I have an old Heli-Ball muffler sitting in the parts
    box, and I'm going to try putting that on the XCell and try it out.
    If it seems to solve the problem, then I'll probably shoot for a Hatori

   Wayne

    Well it looks like the rebuild of my XCell is complete also. I painted
    the fin set last night, and finished covering and balancing the blades.
    All that is left to do is paint the Canopy and it is ready to go.
    
    This is the first time I used the Koll rotor Pro balancer in
    conjunction with a precision scale for blade balancing. The scale
    really helped speed up the blade building process alot. It is now
    almost trivial to get a set of blades that are the exact same weight,
    and also have identical spanwise and cordwise CGs.
    
    When I rebuilt the XCell I upgraded to the Graphite frame set. It
    didn't cost much more that a new set of aluminum side frames, and the
    graphite frames are much more precise.
    
    At this point the Xcell is built as close to perfection as I am able to
    get it. Hopefully the combination of all the parts I replaced and
    moving to a PCM receiver will eliminate the radio problems I have been
    having.
    
    Wayne
    

    When I got home last night, it was not quite dark yet, so I took the
    Xcell out into the back yard for a quick "test flight". Well it passed
    with flying colors. All of the extra attention to balancing everything
    really paid off. There isn't the slightest hint of any vibration, and
    it locks into a hover solid as a rock.
    
    As for the radio problems of the past, only time will tell.
    
    Wayne

    
    Wayne,
    
         Glad to hear everything is working with the X-cell! It brings us
    one step closer to flying together sometime!
    
         I got the radio and Gyrop installed in my X-cell, so all thats
    left is final set-up.
    
                                                        

    Well must not be any NASCAR fans with the chooper folks.  CBS
    experimented with a camera mounted in an RC chopper Sunday during the
    Daytona 500.  Seems the ceiling was too low to allow the blimp or a
    full scale chopper (used to relay pictures from cameras mounted in the
    race cars to a satelite and then back to control room) to fly.  They
    showed pictures of the chopper with the camera basically taped in place
    between the landing rails.  The chopper was limited to pit row and the
    front straight away going into turn 1.  Pictures from the chopper were
    definitely interesting and provided a different aspect view of the
    race.  As usual, no comments were made about the person doing the
    flying and the chopper itself.
    
    Robert

    
      Not true, there are NASCAR fans in this file. see note 771.890/891
    
      They did do a short blurb on the chopper and flyers during the
    rain-out portion ofthe coverage. I just caught the end of it as I
    was channel surfing between the race and the basketball game.    

    I was in R/C Buyers the other day, and I noticed that Bob had one of the
    Lite Machines LMH 100 .049 powered helicopters in stock. Bob had a demo
    video that he played for me and I must say this little machine is
    pretty impressive. The video starts off with a guy just flying around,
    and it looks like the machine handles pretty well, it looked nice and
    stable, and had good tail rotor responce. That is another interesting
    thing about this machine, it doens't use a tail rotor gyro. It has its
    own built in mechanical gyro.
    
    At the end of the video, I guess they where trying to demonstrate how
    tough the little beast is, because they showed a few pretty good
    crashes, after which they just straightend out the blades and flew it
    again. No damage. I wish my XCell could stand up to the kind of abuse
    they were giving this thing. All in all it looked like a pretty neat
    little helicopter, and it seemed to fly much better than I would have
    imagined possible for a machine it's size (24" rotor diameter).
    
    Wayne

    What was the price tag on this little machine???????????

In talking to Wayne, it was about $180 (if I remember correctly), required 4
S-133 servos and a special .051 with throttle for $35. It does sound interesting.

    LIke Jim said. The Kit is $189, and they have a TD .051 that Cox makes
    for them which costs $35. It uses a regular 4 channel radio with S133
    sized servos. No special heli radio, and no tail rotor gyro.
    
    Wayne

                       
       There was a discussion about this chopper in the RC newsgroup on the
    net. Basically all commentswere positive from a couple people who bought
    one. Their only complaints were that it couldn't be flown in ANY wind.
    and the canopy was easily prone to damage. 
    
       The manufacturer added a reply in the newsgroup saying they purposefully
    selected a "cheap" canopy that would be "cheap" to replace instead of
    the alternative canopies that would have cost about 5 times as much. He
    also said that it sounded like they weren't flying with enough rotor
    speed, so that was why they were having problems with the wind. He
    claims that they have flown them successfully in 25 mph winds, although
    due to its very light weight, it does not handle the wind as well as a 
    larger chopper ( simple Physics at work )
    
        It's kind of a neat concept ( no pun intended ), and is meant to
    offer an alternative to the small electric choppers (overall, its about
    $150 - $200 cheaper ). Other than the canopy, it seems to have excellent 
    durability ( including bouncing off a bridge in the video :).  I haven't 
    heard about its potential as a trainer, but based on the small electric 
    choppers, a person can learn on them, but they don't tend to be the best 
    trainers. The only other question I have is the noise, I HATE the noise
    a typical .049 engine makes. My guess is it is quieter in the chopper
    application due to the lack of prop noise.
    
       
        
    
       
    

    The LMH-100 does seem to be a good alternative to the small electric
    choppers, and I think it flys alot better.
    
    Jim Reith, Dave Walter and myself went out for a quick lunch time
    flight. Jim and Dave wer tossing their hand launch gliders, and I
    brought my electric chopper along. I put in two flights, but the EP
    Concept just doesn't seem to be up to snuff lately. It has developed
    are real bad case of tail rotor hunting. I'm not sure if there is some
    binding taking place which is causing a lot of change in the torque
    reaction or what, but I have played with gyro gain and such and nothing
    seems to help. I think I'm going to try a full sized gyro in it,
    just to see if the problem is in the gyro or the machine itself.
    But other than the fact that Jim and Dave kept asking me 
    "Is it supposed to do that ?" I managed to get in a couple of flights
    and bring it home in one piece.
    
    Wayne

Yeah, the electric did fly. Wayne made it look easy and you'll note that we
didn't say "oh, no" but "is it supposed to do that?".

I'm intrigued by this little .049 chopper. I'd love something to fly in the yard
and durable better be it's middle name. I'd better not take my check book up to
R/C Buyers when I take those Gremlins... 8^)

jim

If, hypothetically speaking, someone ("this friend of mine") were thinking 
about considering an R/C helo, is there somewhere he/she could go to watch 
skilled (ok, any) pilots fly these marvels and try to learn something from 
them?  Are there groups that get together regularly to fly?  When?  Must one 
purchase a kit to get started?  Or are there complete, ready to fly helos 
available?  What's it going to cost?  Are the operating costs significant?

This hypothetical person would be in the Boston / Nashua (ZK) area...

Thanks,

   - Ford

><<< Note 366.219 by TAMARA::ACRO::RACKEMANN "Ford Rackemann - XANADU::RACKEMANN" >>>
>               -< Where to go to see R/C Chopping in action... >-
>
>
>If, hypothetically speaking, someone ("this friend of mine") were thinking 
>about considering an R/C helo, is there somewhere he/she could go to watch 
>skilled (ok, any) pilots fly these marvels and try to learn something from 
>them?  Are there groups that get together regularly to fly?  When?  Must one 
>purchase a kit to get started?  Or are there complete, ready to fly helos 
>available?  What's it going to cost?  Are the operating costs significant?
>
>This hypothetical person would be in the Boston / Nashua (ZK) area...
>
>Thanks,
>
>   - Ford

You are close to a good spot.  The 495th club has a field in Tewksbury that
flys Heli's on even or odd days.  For details and directions see Tom's
Hobbie Korner in Chelmsford.  Tom is a member of the 495th club and
can give you directions to the field and more info.

I believe this field is not normally accessible in the winter but this
being the kind of winter it is you may be able to see some fly this weekend.

So start by going to Toms or call his shop at (508)251-4576

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

>
>If, hypothetically speaking, someone ("this friend of mine") were thinking 
>about considering an R/C helo, is there somewhere he/she could go to watch 
>skilled (ok, any) pilots fly these marvels and try to learn something from 
>them? Are there groups that get together regularly to fly?  When?  Must one 
>purchase a kit to get started?  Or are there complete, ready to fly helos 
>available?  What's it going to cost?  Are the operating costs significant?
>
>This hypothetical person would be in the Boston / Nashua (ZK) area...
>
>Thanks,
>
>   - Ford

As far as purchasing a kit goes, most of the .30 sized helis are available
    as either a kit or Almost Ready to Fly model. Both the Hirobo Shuttle
    and Kyosho Concept can be purchased as a complete kit, or as something
    that you simply have to bolt together a couple of major assemblies ans
    install your radio equipment. The decision as to which heli to get is
    probably best based upon what other people in your area are flying. If
    they are familiar with your type of helicopter you are more likely to
    be able to get help.
    
    Check out R/C Buyers Warehouse in Nashua NH. R/C Buyers stocks
    and fully supports (parts, expertise, etc) The Hirobo Shuttle and XCell
    helicopters. They have lots of helicopter experience and can answer all
    your questions. Their prices are also pretty reasonable.
    
    Wayne
    

    Gee Ford, I thought you were saving your pennies to buy that Pitts with
    John!! :-)
    
    

                                                   
    
         Saw another entry on the .049 Chopper in the RC Newsgroup. One
    owner has been using it to practice nose-in hover and low altitude
    pirouettes. He claims it has survived 6 solid crashes ( including one 
    from 50 feet when the engine quit ) with only minor damage to the canopy. 
    Seems like this little bird is durable!
    
          I still think the easiest way to learn nose-in hover and other
    manuvers is with a simulator, but if you don't have a PC/Simulator this 
    ain't a bad way to go.
    
          Forgot to ask how noisy it is though.....

>>   Gee Ford, I thought you were saving your pennies to
>>   buy that Pitts with John!! :-)
 
Jeff,
    Sadly, we can't beat up on him cause he's not here to defend himself! :(  
I'm ready to get the Pitts, I'm just waiting for him. I'm all set to start 
doing more tail slides and lomcevaks... :)  Besides, what leads you to 
believe these helo questions are for me? ;-)  

 - Ford


 

Took three more Gremlin kits up to R/C Buyers at lunchtime and watched the video
of the little .049 chopper. It does look impressive. I also noticed that they
wore ear protectors and had a music soundtrack for most of it. I wish they have
given a closer look at the state of the chopper after flying it into the bridge
so you could really see that it was just in need of a restart.

Hmmmm.....

    
    
         Took the afternoon off yesterday and spent it working on
    Helicopters. 
    
          A stop at RC Buyers got me all the parts I needed to repair the
    Shuttle. The only bummer was having to purchase a complete $18 "Wash
    Out" set, when all I needed were $2 worth of control arms ( Thats Hirobo 
    for you, X-Cell sells every single itsy bitse part seperately. ) About 3 
    hours of work and it is all repaired ( minus rotor blades ). Should be no
    problem having it finished by the weekend. Hopefully within a week, I
    can purchase/install the new OS .32 SX for a MUCH needed performance
    boost.
    
    
          After getting the Shuttle done, I turned my efforts to final
    setup on the X-cell. A couple hours later and its all set to fly again.
    I chose not to run it up / fly it because I think I still want to 
    add some decals to the canopy/fins and clear coat them. I didn't
    want the fuel residue on the paint.
    
          In the evening, I removed the reciever /engine from the Demon
    but didn't have time to install them in the Gremlin ( thats my job for
    tonight, along with the the Shuttle Blades ).
                                          

    Now that you have your Shuttle all back together, lets go flying.
    I figure be better be quick about it while it still in one piece :^)
    
    Wayne

    
     Sounds good! Lets g...... OOPS. too late! :)

                                                               
      Friday night I completed the static set up on the Shuttle.
    
      Yesterday, I took it out into the back yard, strapped it my
    "Workmate" and proceeded with final adjustments.
    
       The "tracking" was right on, and I spent the next  1 1/2 tanks of
    fuel getting the pitch /throttle curves basically set up.
    
       I encountered a couple problems while performing my "run ups":
    
    First, the tail rotor belt kept loosening to the point it was slapping
    around inside the tail boom. The reason it was happenging was that I
    was trying to adjust the belt tension by moving the tail case out on
    the boom slightly instead of loosening the boom at the side frames and
    making the adjustment there. I was trying this because with the side
    frames I have the front of the boom barely fits in the front most
    attachment point when the belt It tight. I finally resorted to making
    the adjustment at the front, and the problem went away. When I have
    time, I will re-drill the side frames and move the boom clamp back a
    bit.
    
    Second, two of the bolts on the engine mount virated loose. When I went
    to start the engine the third time, it was definately loose, thats when
    I discovered the bolt problem. I found one bolt, but the other one
    was missing in action. Back to the cellar for a replacement. After
    lock tighting the bolts and cranking them back down, that problem 
    settled down. 
    
       After that, I unclamped the heli and set it in the back yard. When
    I throttled up, I found I needed much more pitch and throttle than I
    had set in, so another round of adjustments was in order. After
    trimming the controls, and doing a bit of hovering, I loaded it in
    the van with the Gremlin and headed to Merrimack.
    
        I put in one hovering flight, but the wind made it a real
    adventure. I ended up increasing the overall rotor speed and the
    throttle at 3/4 stick to give me the control I needed to combat the
    wind. I am still having problems with intermittant minor tail rotor 
    swinging which could be due to a number of things including: the engine 
    running rough, the belt slipping, the gyro, or the clutch shaft bearing. 
    This  will be the next area I will focus on to get it straightened out.
       It is also still experiencing poor climb performance. I am planning
    to pull the .32 out ,take a peak inside, and run it up. I plan to 
    upgrade to the SX, but I want to check this engine out
    anyway.
    

    
        Last night I finally took the plunge and purchased an OS.32 SX from
    RC Buyers for the Shuttle. This engine is advertised as having an 18%
    power increase over the "standard" .32 . This should equate to removing
    about 1 pound from my Shuttle in climb performance! It is not a
    reworked version of the .32, but in fact an entirely new engine
    including a new carb, larger cooling fins on the head, etc. Can't
    wait to fly it! The only initial disadvantage is that its an ABC engine and
    REAL tight! Its going to be tough to turn over with the belt start until 
    the engine gets broken in a bit. I plan to put a prop on it and run a few 
    tanks through before installing it in the Heli. It is also a bit
    heavier than the old version ( about 8/10 oz).
    
        When I removed the "old" .32, I think I also found the cause of the
    problems I have been having regarding the intermittant tail movement 
    (and reduced power for climb). The bell housing shaft was worn down
    where it went through the bearing AND the bearing was totally junk! I
    am suprised it flew at all, and I am probably lucky the bearing didn't
    seize! In addition, the bearing in the center of the clutch shoe was
    slightly rough, so I decided to replace it. 
        The problem was my fault because according to the Hirobo Rep at the
    Shluter Cup who examined my Shuttle, I had the belt adjusted WAY too
    tight. Since then I have been running it much looser, but I think the
    damage was already done.
        Sooo, it was back to RC Buyers for a new bell housing and clutch
    shoe bearing ( I already had a "spare" bell housing shaft bearing, so
    that took the edge off the purchase ).   
         
        Hopefully, I can run a couple tanks of fuel through the engine
    tonight, and then get everything installed and ready for the weekend.
    Can't wait to fly it, it should fly like a whole new Heli!

    Dan,
    
    You may already have this upgrade in your Shuttle, but just in case you
    don't, you should look into the upper clutch shaft bearing block. If
    bolts between the side frames just above the bell housing. I had one on
    my Shuttle, and it did a very nice job of supporting the cluch shaft
    during starting, etc. I think it would go a long way toward preventing
    a similar failure in the future. Especially with that .32SX. Mine was a
    REAL BITCH to turn over with that stinking belt. While your at it you
    could add a top start, and a ... :^)
    
    

    The clucht shaft bearing block is made by Hel X.
    
    Wayne

    
     Wayne,
    
        I have the complete Hel-X side frame kit on my SHuttle. It came
    with the second clutch bearing. I originally installed the second
    bearing, wasn't happy with it, and took it out. Again, it could have
    been that I was previously ruinning the belt too tight that the
    second bearing didn't work well. I may try it again, but if you run the 
    belt loose enough, the wear factor on the bell housing shaft/bearing
    should be significantly reduced (or disappear).
        I am not sure the second bearing will offer much help with the
    starting, the engine, mount, and sideframes take the majority of the
    load from the starting belt. As long as everything is tight, is is more
    a matter of belt slippage. One thing I have recently discovered is that
    after I added the rubber pads to the skids, starting is much easier
    because the heli doesn't slide so easily when you put tension on the
    starting belt.
         
        Last night, I ran 22 oz of fuel ( 2 tanks ) through the SX. I used
    a 9/8 prop and a .32 airplane muffler ( with extension) for the run-in.
    Like almost all O.S's, it started right off, and with a bit of tweaking
    was running very strong and smooth by the end of the second tank. It
    is noticably easier to turn over now, the question is, will it be easy
    enough for the belt? 
        At this point I have the .SX on the mount, and have the fan/pulley 
    mounted. Now I need to remove the clutch shoe bearing, replace it,
    press the new bellhousing shaft bearing in, glue in/sand the clutch 
    lining in the new bell housing, and then I will be ready to have the
    .SX move into its new home :).
    
        As a side note, I took a peak inside the .32 I removed from the
    Shuttle. No bearing rust at all. I ran the fuel out, lubed it up, and
    put it away for now. The good news is that the FAI "after run" fuel
    seems to be doing the trick!.
        
        

    
     How NOT to "break-in" a Heli engine!
    
       This was passed on to me recently. Although it had a humorous aspect
     to it, I am entering it as a safety warning to any current/future
     Heli pilots as to how NOT to "break-in a Heli engine.
    
       This new Heli Pilot purchased a new Heli and an OS.32 SX engine
     When it came time to break-in the engine, he was confused as to
     what process to use. What he decided to do was to bolt the engine
     to a test stand and start the engine with just the (expandable)
     clutch shoe bolted to the front.
       He used a starter with an old rubber cone, and managed to get the
     engine started. With virtually no load on the engine, it immediately
     started screaming, the metal clutch shoes kept expanding, and both
     shoes broke off and flew through the air. I would hate to think of
     what would have happened if he ( or anyone else ) was in their path!.
     
       He said he knew the shoes expanded, but seemed stiff enough to handle
     the load (they weren't, they didn't). Without the bell housing to
     restrict the expansion and put some load on the motor, the shoes
     were easily overstressed.
    
       In hindsight, the danger seems obvious, but may not be immediately
     obvious if not thought through up front 
     
           Disclaimer: ( NO, it wasn't me - this time :)
                                                    
                                                    

    
    Well since last week was school vacation, I decided to take some
    vacation time myself.  I managed to get out and do some chopper flying
    almost everyday last week. I spent most of my time trying to get my
    machines tuned for maximum performance, I now have my Concept 30 flying
    absolutely beutifully. I think it is even ready for inverted flight,
    but I'm not sure that I am :). Once I had the Concept going the way I
    wanted, I proceeded to start working on my XCell 50. I managed to get
    it flying smoothly, and get the tail rotor mixing just right, but all
    of sudden, the XCell has very poor vertical performance. This is very
    unusual for this machine because in the past it has always wanted to
    climb out like a rocket. Now I am finding myself running at full
    collective most of the time in forward flight. I have checked the pitch
    setup, and that all looks good. The only thing I can think off, is that
    I have a problem with the throttle linkage and that the carb is not
    opening all the way. But all and all, I got in about 25 flights this
    week and everything is still in one piece :^).
    
    Wayne

    
       Yesterday I had the pleasure of attending the "Lazy Loopers" first
    heli "fun fly".
       The weather was picture perfect and it was REALLY neat seeing only
    helicopters at a field for a few short hours. Being able to talk and
    mingle with other heli fliers was as neat as the contest itself.
       I initially chose just to observe because my SHuttle wasn't running
    well and the X-cell needed some engine adjustment, but Wayne Field 
    coerced me into flying :). We took the X-cell over to the hover pad and
    had it running pretty well in a couple minutes.
       I chose to fly conservatively because I really didn't fell like
    banging an expensive heli around. 
    
    
       The contest consisted of three events:
    
     1. Timed event. Spin a spinner and fly aound flags in the direction
        indicated. There were two flags, one to your right and one to the
        left about half way across the runway. If the spinner said "two
        right", you had to take off, fly a right turn around the flag to
        your right, then fly a right turn around the flag to your left,
        return to the takeoff area and shutdown. This event, as all of them
        were, was a combination of luck ( what you spun ) and skill ( how
        fast you could complete the task). Unfortunately, the only crash
        of the day came when a relative "novice" lost control around the 
        first right turn and crashed into the bushes.
    
        ( In hindsight, all the turns should have been away from the pits
          for safety. Maybe an upgrade for next year?)
    
 
     2.  Baseball
    
            There were 4 bases ( including "home plate" where you took off
         from. The three "bases were squares of carpet about 4 by 8 feet
         on wooden frames (sounds big, but it ain't from 80 feet away! ).
            Timed event, you spun then flew over each base until you
         reached the base you spun ( ie; if you "spun" a "double", you
         would fly over "first" and land at "second"). Once you landed,
         you would spin again and repeat the sequence until you made two
         trips around the bases and "spun" the exact number needed to get
         home.
            This was an interesting event, but unfortunately the carpet
        "bases" didn't work well and caught a couple of helis, stripping
         the tail rotor gear on one. Next year it was just suggested that
         they just "lime" out the bases to minimize damage.
             I chose to semi-follow the chopper around the bases when I
         flew so I could see the landing sites better. This cost me a few
         seconds as I ran back to spin the spinner, but made landing much 
         easier.
    
    
     3.  Take off, fly around the right flag and then land in a "grid of
         4 by 8 "boxes" limed out on the field. Each box had a "secret"
         number which multiplied the number of seconds you flew using
         a formula. This one was LARGELY luck and helped equalize the
         field.
    
         
        When the contest was over, I managed to tie for first ( largely
        due to the equalizing effect of event 3). We did a fly off by
        repeating event one. My opponant managed to complete the course
        in 41 seconds and I took 42 seconds so I ended up second.
    
        Improvement suggestions for next year:
    
        1. Rotate starting order for each event. Poor Wayne had to be the
          "guinea pig" by going first on each event which turned out to
           be a definate disadvantage
    
        2. All turns away from the pits.
    
        3. Move the take off box further out on the runway ( we did this
           for safety after the first event )
    
        4. Make the Bases out of "lime" instead of carpet 
  
    
     As I said above, it was a great time and I am looking forward to
     next year 

    At lunchtime I picked up a Shuttle ZX. Wayne already has 3 flights on
    it 8^) I'll let him fill in the details since he's more familiar with
    it.

    That pretty good huh, I've already got 3 flights on your heli and you
    haven't even got your radio in it yet ;^).
    
    Actually one of my helicopter students lost interest and decided to
    sell out. I mentioned it to Jim and he decided to jump on it. It seems
    like a nice package, a Shuttle ZX with OS .32SX engine and a JR gyro.
    All he has to do is install is radio gear and he should be in the air
    in no time! Let me know when you have it ready to go and we can get
    together and check it out.
    
    Wayne

    Yeah, it seemed like a real good deal. The price was good due to it
    being used but it had only been flown by the instructor! I'll let you
    know so we can get the radio programmed for it.
    
    ChopperMan

    This chopper revolution is starting to get downright scary!
    

    At least we know better than to attach streamers!

    Welcome to the world of "fling wings". I think you'll have a blast.
    Just keep the bottle of Excedrin handy cause getting it set up and
    learning to hover it will hurt your brain. 8^)
    
    So tell us more.....What did ya get with it?????? Is it the one that
    Wayne was telling me about at the Gremlin contest?????? The guy was
    supposed to be selling that one radio and all. Did it come with any
    goodies like pitch guage, training gear, etc???????
    
    Looks like I'm DEFINATELY going to have to have a heli funfly next
    year. 
    
    Let's see, if me, you, DanW, Wayne, and Charlie all went down to the
    CMRCM field at the same time, we could REALLY piss Ray off by having 5
    heli's hovering around the runway at the same time. 8^)

    And George Dainis has a Concept.
    
    I pissed Harvey off enough with the .049 one. It's got training gear
    and a JR gyro. I just need to drop in servos and I'm there. I think I
    heard it had the new SX motor as well. I hope some of the .049 work
    will transfer over. I got to hover that one pretty well and started
    nose in without the training gear. Lamar has one of the .049 ones as
    well. There's a fair number of us now. maybe we can get TomT to come
    out 8^) 8^)

Speaking of choppers and Dan Weier, has anyone heard from Dan lately?  I 
haven't seen him at the Merrimack field for months, and he's been 
conspicously absent in here lately.

Dan, are you listening??  Please report in.

Regards,
Joe

><<< Note 366.237 by MPGS::REITH "Jim (MPGS::) Reith - DTN 237-3045 SHR3-1/U32" >>>
>                    -< I guess I'm officially 30-something >-
>
>    At lunchtime I picked up a Shuttle ZX. Wayne already has 3 flights on
>    it 8^) I'll let him fill in the details since he's more familiar with
>    it.

What do you think gang?  Do you think I should ask him to borrow it
for a flight?

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Kay, I owe you that one. Perhaps you should stop down some day while
    Wayne is showing me?

    Dan W. is alive and well. He was at the CMRCM meeting this past Monday.
    
    I suspect he's realy busy.
    
    
    Steve

    re .245
    
    Yeah Kay, I think you should borrow it and see how it does in combat
    :^).
    
    Wayne

    (oh yeah, I midaired the instructor too...)

    
    
    
    Starting to think that maybe you should get into RC Boats or Cars or
    plush stuffed animals...
    
    

    Now, now, activities with plush toys wouldn't be appropriate for this
    conference (would it Teddie?) 8^)
    
    In looking over the wreckage this morning, I believe I have 2 opposite
    intact panels from this years midairs. I think I'm going to splice them
    together and give people something to REALLY worry about 8^)
    
    Jim (working a 7 day week this week)

    
          Reporting in as requested! :)
    
    
          I have been very involved in Pattern flying this year and ended
     up doing 90% of my flying at Litchfield in the past several months
     ( and the other 10% at Central Mass ). This is basically due to the
     facilities ( and not the convienence/crowd ).
          I have also been doing some heli flying and have been helping
      Steve and Charlie get launched on their Heli exploits. I was hoping 
      to do much more once the pattern season ended a couple weeks ago, but
      the weather hasn't been cooperating!
         
            Hopefully I will get up to Merrimack one of these days :)
    
                                                  
                      
     

Hi Dan.  Glad you checked in since we hadn't heard from you in a while.  From 
the sound of it, you have been _real_ active in RC lately.  By all means, 
stop by Merrimack when you get a chance.

Regards,
Joe

Yesterday was interesting. I managed to get my March flight in before the last
day of the month. Met Wayne field and George Dainis at Lazy Loopers for some
Gremlin and chopper flights. It also happened to be the Lazy Loopers frozen
finger fun fly. AND... Wayne took 2nd place... WITH HIS CHOPPER!!!

It was a one minute timed flight followed by a timed segment of loops (number
determined by a roll of the dice). Wayne said he entered to see if they'd
allow a chopper to compete. Boy was his face red when they said yes! (speaking
of red faces, I got a heck of a sunburn)

Wayne did a great job and really impressed the peanut gallery with the
negative pitch at the top of the loops. Some of the other flight attempts were
QUITE amusing 8^)

    So what kind of shape is the Loopers field in, anyway.
    
    The last two days were ideal for getting the chopper out and blowing
    the dust off. So did I?????? NO............ Heli isn't charged, flight
    box isn't charged and memory lapses keep them that way. I thought I
    heard something about near 50 tomorrow, so I'll have to put them on
    charge so I can do some flying when I get home. There's still a good
    hour of light left by then.
    
    It's been about 4 months since I've flown the heli, so the first few
    "attempts" should be quite amusing.
    
    
    Steve

The loopers field was snow covered so I don't know the actual field conditions.
The snowmobiles have been pretty active and I was able to pick a crossing point
of several trails to the left of the pits as a hover site. I still have the
training gear on the Shuttle so it was fine in the snow. I'm not sure simple
skids would be a good choice other than for the experienced pilot. Wayne did
sink in each flight and in at least one case I was sure he was going over as he
powered it off.

I've been getting in early enough that I've considered flying after work. It's
still light until 6pm+ and the equinox is in about a week.