Conference napalm::musclecars

    I'm looking for input into a plan that I have had in the back of my
    mind for quite some time (and now that the tax man has been paid off
    for yet another year, it's moving to the front of my mind!)

    Here's the scenario: Some of the regular readers may remember a bit
    about the ThunderTruck(tm). Basically, it's 4,500+ pounds of super duty
    4-wheel drive Blazer. The entire drivetrain has been *seriously*
    beefed. When it last was running, it sported a complete Tuned Port
    Injected '87 'vette engine. Ran great, but met an untimely death.
    
    The time is drawing near to revive the beast. The plan? To procure one
    of Chevrolets new HO 350 engines, and yank the cam, intake and
    distributor. The cam will be replaced by one of John Lingenfelters
    evil, wicked, mean and nasty TPI grinds, while the intake and
    distibutor will be replaced with the TPI and its distributor. The TPI
    setup is going to be massaged a bit, to allow it to breathe better.
    According to Lingenfelters literature, this should produce 350-375 hp,
    with torque nearing the 400 lbs/ft mark. Not too shabby for 350 cubic
    inches staying below the 6K rpm mark!
    
    So, any obvious flaws in the plan? I figure that I'll get one hell of a
    stout engine with the HO. But, at the same time I have to wonder if I
    couldn't pump up a stock 350 from a late model truck to near the same
    specs. I've still got the aluminum heads from the dead engine. A very
    low mileage engine could be retrofitted with the roller lifters (which
    I also have) and the JL cam and the 'vette heads. But, will the stock
    crank take the abuse? If so, I'm tempted to save quite a few bucks with
    this route. Any ideas out there?
    
    Harry
    

Because its got all the good parts to live in a wicked environment.
In the fullness of time, send your (current) heads to Lingenfelter for
a little massaging - and a bunch more torque.

Enjoy.

Bruce

    	Harry,

    	Did you ever think of contacting RHS? I know that they will build
    an engine to your specs, and you could probably have them build a short
    block, then you could use your present heads. I think they are owned by
    Competition Cams.

    	BTW they have a very knowledgeable tech called Donnie. You may want
    to talk to him. I talked to him about a SB 383 with 350 rods (higher
    RPM), and he gave me some good ideas. However, that project got
    back-burnered by the purchase of a house.

    	CB

    Yep, I talked to RHS a couple of years ago, before I ran across the
    'vette engine. It seems that they build a pretty good engine, but it's
    using run-of-the-mill remanufactured parts. The HO 350 has a stout
    crank that was taken from the 350 used in behemoth trucks, 'pink' rods,
    and marine pistons. (Chevy engineers found during a severe duty test
    that the stock 'vette pistons that they had planned to use in that
    engine couldn't stand up to long term abuse. I seriously doubt that RHS
    has the financial fortitude to perform such long term testing.) 
    
    Anyway, by the time RHS adds all those goodies, it would cost as much
    (or more) than an HO 350. :-( Plus, there's just something more
    appealing about having a 'factory fresh' engine. Another big factor is
    knowing that I can deal with a local dealer on the HO 350, while any
    problems with an RHS engine would require some serious shipping charges
    to get the engine back to Tennessee. 
    
    I kind of wonder how well RHS is doing these days? A while back, they
    were running two-page ads in all the motorhead rags. Now I don't see
    any ads from them at all. Maybe lots of other folks were concerned with
    ordering such an expensive item from a distant place?
    
    Harry
    

    Have you looked into getting a short blok version of the HO engine?
    
    If that's possible to do you can then go with Bruce's idea and get your
    heads redone to fit the profile of that wicked cam...even if you can't
    get the short block version get those heads matched up to that cam
    you'll have about all you can get out of the 350 for the price...and it
    will be plenty! (that's about what the Goose needs!)
    
    /tb/

    When the HO 350 first came out, I called several folks in Detroit to
    inquire about purchasing a short block version. "Not available" they
    said. But, perhaps they've had enough inquiries since then to change
    their minds... Maybe it's about time to make a couple of phone calls.
    
    It makes lots more sense, and would be tons cheaper. I've got the
    heads, intake, roller lifters, and distributor. A bit of work on the
    current heads and intake, then bolt them onto one of those blocks.
    Mmmmm, makes my mouth water!
    
    Harry
    

    When you reallythink about it...what would you gain but getting the HO
    short block?  If your going to put that killer cam, and I still think
    you should get the heads matched, (or maybe the cam matched to the
    heads? cheaper?), then all you really need to get is a short block
    4 bolt with the right bottom end.
    
    What's Summit getting for those?
    
    Will you have any probvlems using those roller rockers with a new cam?
    
    /tb/
    

    Harry, this motor project sounds interesting. Just some thoughts, as I
    was going to do something similar. I don't recall exactly, but doesn't
    the 350HO have a stock crank, ie.cast, but of the one piece seal
    design? Many of the people I talked to prefer the cast crank as they
    feel it is more forgiving of harmonics. Anyway, I planned to use a 350
    4 bolt block, the new Vette heads with 1.6 rockers on the intakes, and
    1.7 on the exhausts, to try to compensate somewhat for the small
    exhaust valves, the special pistons (Hypersomething) from Speed-Pro,
    Sealed Power rings, and a TPI setup, that we had discussed. The twist
    was that I planned to use modified deck height pistons, and 6" Crower
    Sportsman rods. Better piston/rod/crank angles=more torque/power less
    scuffing. A two part article I read in Circle Track, along with other
    sources, convinced me that this was the way to go. If i ever go back
    to building Chevys, I still might try this one.
    
    Lou
    

    Hey Harry...why don't you build a stroker 383 using a 400 crank etc.
    
    With the other goodies you have and probably a different cam than you
    were thinking of, you could pull, push or go over ANYTHING!
    
    /tb/

    I'm building a 350 for a friend .Its components consist of 10.25 to 1
    cr pistons ,edelbrock torquer cam torker intake 650 holley comp cams
    roller rockers 492 casting heads with 1.94 valves does any one a
    guestimet as to how much HP this motor will push.He wants to push low 
    to mid 13's  in a 78 z28 with 3.73 gears 2500 rpm stall converter.
    Idon't think there's enough to push low 13's but maybe 13.9s.
    whats your opinions. Does any one have the PV 2000 performance 
    computer .In the old File someone had it .if you sent them
    information like weight gears altitude they could compute your et
    tire size you should use etc.

I don't know what a PV 2000 performance computer is, but I have the QUARTER
and QUARTER JR software that can do some strip calculations, given HP,
gearing, tire size, altitude and the like. Send me mail at MR4DEC::Augenstein
with whatever data you have.

I have no idea what sort of power this engine will make.

Bruce

    what sort of camshaft does this engine have?

    the camshaft is the edelbrock torker lift is .497 .497 with 308
    diration.
    

    Time to spend some money. I've talked to the folks at RHS, and they can
    build me a 383 short block for $1745. It will have the 400 crank, 350
    rods, and forged pistons that will give me a compression ratio of 9.6:1
    with my Corvette heads (I think he said they have 58cc chambers). I
    also asked about a 400, but he said that the lowest compression stock
    pistons that he has would pop the comp ratio over 10:1. Custom pistons
    could be had for $400 to lower that. :-(
    
    I'm thinking of going with the 383. Gotta decide soon. I want to get
    the engine installed and broken in before a 4-wheeling trip to Colorado
    in August. But, that HO350 still looks good, except for the price. The
    best price I've been able to find is right at $2,700. I could sell off
    some of the parts that I take off, but that's a bit of a pain.
    
    Any RHS detractors out there? Speak up! Is the difference between the
    forged pistons in the RHS engine and the hypereutectic pistons in the
    HO350 significant enough to warrant sticking with the HO350? The extra
    torque from the 383 is attractive, especially in a 4WD. Come on guys,
    help me break the bank! ;-)
    
    Harry
    

    I think you've hit on the right answer with the 383. Stick with the
    forged pistons and 9.6:1 so's ya can still use pump gas. My 357cid with
    9.5:1 can run on 89 IF I get the timing set JUST RIGHT...I use 93 when
    I can affort it...
    
    You're gonna have a killer 383 with those heads! I agree about keeping
    the torque for the 4wd.
    
    Gees for the price of that HO350 you could get a NEW LS& with 500 HP!
    
    /tb/
    

      My brother picked up a small block Cevy intake yesterday for a
    good price, but we need some help in finding out what it is off of.
      It is aluminum, high rise dual plane with about a 1/4" notch cut out
    ot the plenum divider all the way across and single 4 bbl.  It has the 
    tube for the oil filler, and "GM" is stamped on it as well as firing 
    order and a large "W" .  There are some numbers stamped on it, but I 
    forgot them at home. I will post them tomorrow. 
    
    Any ideas?
    
    Rich 

    
    get the casting numbers, and I'll see what they are on my LT1 manifold.
    The plenum divider may have been machined on yours, so you can't go by
    that.  Is it the Holley 4 bolt pattern?  Is the water neck area
    centered on the manifold or offset to one side?
    Matt

    Sounds like the Z28 aluminum high rise used in the '60's.....it's about
    equal to an Edlebrock performer, I think.
    
    Cutting part or all of the plenum divider out is a trick to get some
    more HP at a higher RPM, like a single plane does.
    
    I use an open plenum 1" riser on a Performer to do the same thing.
    
    /tb/

      I have the numbers on the intake.  They are 3932472.
    What does the "W" stamped near #1 cylinder mean?  It is
    inside of what looks like a snowflake.  Does this mean it
    came from the Winters foundry and is an original piece?
      If this is from an LT-1 or early Z-28 is it worth using
    nowadays or are the aftermarket intakes better?
    
    Thanks for all the help,
    
    Rich

    
       68 was the last year for the oil fill tube in the intake manifold.
    69 and up had it in the valve cover. It cannot be a LT1 manifold
    because that did not come out until 70' Might be a Z28 manifold.
    
    -john

The '70 version had the oil hole cast-over but this manifold was the one 
used on the LT1.

The only other aluminum manifolds were in '78-79 for Qjets, a bow-tie that 
handled Holly carbs but fit just the raised intake ports on the bow-tie heads 
and was a single plane, and one like it that fit regular heads.

It's got to be the the Z28-LT1...hang onto it.  You might call your local GM parts 
store and ask the price on a new one just to see what it's worth.

This information is from the 1989 version of the "Chevrolet Small-Block V-8 
Interchange Manual."

Caption under a picture of the manifold....

" This early Z28 manifold is one of the best ever produced for the small-block. 
 It is easily recognized by the cast-over oil fill tube hole and W casting 
mark.  In the rear the casting number and firing order are present. A 1968-70 
choke-spring mounting boss is also visible."


From the text.....

"Special high-performance 302 ci and 350 ci engines came equipped with what is 
considered the best performance manifold ever built for the small-block.  This 
aluminum, performance four-barrel manifold has throttle bores of equal size to 
fit a square-bore holly carburetor.  It is the Z28 manifold, sometime called 
the LT1 manifold, and it is still available as an off-road part. The current 
part number is 14044836"


Caption under a picture of an Edlebrock Performer manifold...

"If you consider the expense of an LT1-Z28 manifold (part number 14044836) 
prohibitive, the next best choice is probably this Edlebrock Performer....."

From the parts list in the back...

"PN 1 14044836 Intake manifold aluminum, 1968-69 302 ci, 1970 350 ci W/S/H/P
Corvette, high rise, dual plane, for mounting Holly carburetor"

    

    Mid sixties vettes with 327's also run aluminum intakes that had
    the Holly bolt pattern......sooooo it could be one those and not
    a Z28/LT1!
    
    Peter

    ...those were not high-rise were they?
    
    /tb/
    

      This is getting real interesting.  Tom, everything on the intake
    seems to match up to what you are saying except that the firing order
    is stamped on the front.  It is definately drilled for a Holley and
    definately a high rise.
    
    Thanks for the info, and if you come up with anything more let me
    know.
    
    Rich

    yep, the mid sixties vette ones were also high rise intakes.
    
    Peter

    Rich,
    
     I checked an old Chevy Performance book I have (circa 1973) and the
    part # of the Z28/LT-1 manifold is 3972114 and it states "No provision
    for oil fill tube". There is no reference to the part # you have in
    the book.
    
    Chris

      Thanks for looking that up Chris.  It looks like I have some
    old 'vette intake???
    
    Rich

    Well, I finally did it. The boys at RHS Performance Engines in Memphis
    have their orders. They're to build one 383 cubic inch Chevy small
    block, balanced and complete with Keith Black hypereutectic pistons,
    and a Competition Cams TPI grind cam and lifters, and ship it to *ME*!
    
    They said that it should be here in about 3 weeks. One of their engine
    guys that has been playing with the TPI engines says that with the cam
    I selected it should have well over 400 ft./lbs. of torque at a peak of
    around 4,500 rpm, with over 380 ft./lbs. over most of the usable rpm
    range. Yeah! :-) The ThunderTruck(tm) will rise from the dead, at long
    last.
    
    I just couldn't justify the extra cash outlay for the HO 350,
    considering all the parts that I wouldn't use. I was also lured by the
    extra bottom end torque of the 383. I can hardly wait to get it
    installed!
    
    Harry
    
    

    It's about time....
    
    :-)
    
    The Mad Weldor....Jim

     Bruce thought I'd let you know the quater jr was right on.
    My friends Z28 did a best of 13.52 without the juice.
    he feels it can be improved .(with only 4 runs on it he better
    be able to) Any how I am building one now it WILL run high in
    the 12's but be a weekend driver as well.I have a n edelbrock
    victor manifold also a dual Quad manifold wich will work best.
    also how do you guys feel about the dartII heads are they as 
    good everyone says.I can print the cam specs if anyone wants
    to comment on streetability with it. I dont have them now.I
    know it will run a little choppy .As long as it isnt a total
    pain in the @$$.Any takers on this.Also look at note 55.1.

Well, it's only 3/4 of a 350 chevy but does anyond know of any magazine
articles or books that discuss the Chevy 90 degree V-6.  I am specifically
interested in the 4.3l (262) engine.

I need basic info (I think that it is substantially similar to the 350 V-8
minus 2 cylinders) as well as some How to Hot Rod your v-6 type info.

Thanks,
Mark

The Bow-Tie books supply plentiful data on the 4.3. One lists parts and
specs, while the other supplies how-to data re racing clearances, buildup
tips, etc.

They are both available from your local Chevy dealer parts dept.

Bruce

I have decided not to run a heater in the Vega.  Can I just plug the heater hose 
fittings on the water pump and intake? I don't need to run a hose between them
do I? 

Thanks,
Mark 

In an air-conditioned car the heater flow is shut off when the AC is switched 
on.  If the factory can shut off the flow, then you shouldn't have to worry 
about it either.

Plug the holes.

    Skip, this is a Chevy, not a Mopar! ;-) Chevies always have water
    flowing through the heater core. There's no water valve in the heater
    line. The heat is shut off by closing a door between the core and the
    incoming airflow.
    
    I'm not certain, but it seems to me that the heater circuit could be
    the bypass for the water pump when the thermostat is closed. Anyone
    know for sure? I don't have any water flow patterns handy.
    
    Harry
    

Perhaps I showing my ignorance here but, why would a bypass be needed for the 
water pump?  Wouldn't the pump just curculate coolant through the block when
the thermostat is closed?

Mark

    
         You should run a hose because that is the way chevy purges
    the air from the system. Its been that way since day one! I read this
    in How to hot rod Small block chevys...Written by Bill Jenkins.
    You get 2 engineering features for the price of one.
    
    -john

     
    	Hi Mark,
    		I just thought of something you mentioned before, you
    	talked about running hot. maybe you could run the hoses to a
    	fender mounted water cooler. that might help to bring down the
    	heat alittle. 
    
    	Jeff

Harry,

I have a CHEVROLET vacuum controlled heater inlet shut-off for an AC equipped 
car on my '34.  It was one of the few that fully shut off the flow.  Most just 
severely restrict the flow.  We grabbed a bunch off the shelf before we finally 
came up with one that actually shut off the flow.  It fits a Caprice or 
something on that order.

skip

    Skip, what year is it from? My '70 Impala, (2) '70 Novas, '73 Pontiac
    Catalina, '72, '75, '77, '87 and '91 Blazers all had straight hose
    between the heater core and engine, no water valve. The only place I've
    ever seen one was on a Mopar. :-) Maybe GM used them 'before my time'?
    ;-)
    
    Harry
    

    Harry, my 71 Monte Carlo has the heater cut off valve. It's like Skip said,
    it's screwed into the intake manifold and has a vacumm line to it. When the 
    A.C. is turned on it cuts the flow of coolant to the heater core. I've
    had 4 (70-72) Monte Carlo's with A.C. and they've all had it. 
    
     

    That's a new one on me! It's the first time I've even heard of a Chevy
    with a water cut-off valve! Now I wonder why some got them and others
    didn't...
    
    Harry
    

      I had a '73 Caprice with AC that had one.
    
    Rich

    Skips correct...again...if it's got AC it's got the shut off valve.
    The Goose has it cause it once had AC when the original BOP 350 was in
    it. That valve shuts the flow so I don't see why you couldn't plug it.
    I've never done that though...I always just run a hose between the two
    connections.
    
    /tb/

    Nope, that isn't the reason. Every vehicle I listed came with factory
    air. I don't how they decided which vehicles got one and which didn't!
    
    Harry
    

     My '73 ElCamino, and my '85 Chevy 4x4 both with air DO NOT HAVE heater
    water shut offs! I find it very hard to believe that ANY chevy made
    after about '65 have heater shut off valves. For one BIG reason;
    
    1. Water must circulate at all times in the heater core otherwise it
       will corrode and start leaking. This lesson was learned the hard way
       by the mfg's when after only a couple of years customers heater
       cores were leaking inside their nice new cars.
    
     Shut off valves were probably replaced by restrictor valves at one
    time to reduce the amount of heat let into the car until they figured
    out the correct method to gate or vent the airflow to the outside
    during summer shut off times. The water still flowed minimally to
    circulate the water to prevent corrosion.
     I always run the my '62 imapala with the circulation valve slightly
    open, but I can close off the vent to the inside so hot air doesn't
    come in.
    
     Try this test.......turn on the airconditioner in your car. It should
    be cold. Next turn the air temp selector toward the warm position. Note
    that the A/C pump still pumps but the air is warm. This tells you that
    the A/C switch does not cut the water supply to the heater core, but
    simply opens the gate or door to allow the cooled air of the A/C to
    pass over the heater core. This is how the Defrost position works.
    The A/C core cools the air from the inside of the cab condensing the
    water so that it is removed from the air and dripped to the drain hole
    in the firewall/floorboard area, and then the air runs through the
    heater core to the windshield.
     This vacuum valve you are seeing has nothing to do with the A/C being
    on or not. It simply restricts the waterflow to the heater core 
    which allows the engine to warm up quickly. Once the engine block
    recirculated water reaches a certain temp a sensor allows a vacuum
    switch to be opened, which allows the full flow of heated water to the
    heater core.
    
    Bruce
    

    >...........I find it very hard to believe that ANY chevy made
    >after about '65 have heater shut off valves. For one BIG reason;
    
    Believe it.....it happened and continues...apparently the wonders of
    GM technology must have solved the problem some way other than not using
    the shut off valve.
    
    I wonder why your vehicles don't have 'em?
    /tb/

    >     Try this test.......turn on the airconditioner in your car. It should
>    be cold. Next turn the air temp selector toward the warm position. Note
>    that the A/C pump still pumps but the air is warm. This tells you that
>    the A/C switch does not cut the water supply to the heater core, but
>    simply opens the gate or door to allow the cooled air of the A/C to
>    pass over the heater core. This is how the Defrost position works.
>    The A/C core cools the air from the inside of the cab condensing the
>    water so that it is removed from the air and dripped to the drain hole
>    in the firewall/floorboard area, and then the air runs through the
>    heater core to the windshield.

Nope, the temp control on MANY cars just regulates how long the compressor 
will stay on (how cold the evaporator will get).  If I never turn on the 
heat in the summer, there's no coolant flowing through my heater core at 
all.  I have to bring the temp control lever at least 15% of the way 
towards "heat" for the coolant valve to begins to open and allow coolant 
into the heater core.  This applies to "defrost" as well.   BTW, my heater 
valve is controlled by a cable.  The farther towards "hot" I move the lever
, the more coolant will flow through the system.  Once I move the lever 
about 30% of the way, the compressor will shut off.

Granted, SOME valves only restrict the flow of engine coolant but in most 
newer vehicles, in trying to increase fuel economy, the manufacturers have 
made it easier for the compressor to cool the inside of the car w/o having 
to overcome radiated heat from an adjacent heater core and they've shut off
, completely, the coolant flow.

BTW, if I turn on the heat after the AC's been running from the get-go.  
There's no heat in the heater core right away.  It's rather difficult to 
tell whether it's due to having to warm the evaporator of not UNTIL you go 
out and feel the hoses while someone turns on the heater.  The cold hose 
will heat up VERY QUICKLY to a point where you can't hold onto it very long 
(like the top of the radiator).  There will be appreciable temperature felt 
on the return line as well as the feed line up to the valve but after the 
valve, the feed line will be significantly cooler.  Once the valve is 
opened, the whole system of hoses will get significantly hotter.

>     This vacuum valve you are seeing has nothing to do with the A/C being
>    on or not. It simply restricts the waterflow to the heater core 
>    which allows the engine to warm up quickly. Once the engine block
>    recirculated water reaches a certain temp a sensor allows a vacuum
>    switch to be opened, which allows the full flow of heated water to the
>    heater core.

Huh?  a valve that won't let coolant into a heater until the coolant is up 
to a certain temp?  The only valve of this nature is placed in the top 
radiator hose and it's normally referred to as the thermostat.  All 
domestic heater systems will function as soon as the engine is started (as 
long as the temp selector is moved to the warm/hot position)  It may not 
feel like you're getting any warmer, but there's definitely warmer air 
coming out than if you'd moved the temp control to "cold".

The vacuum operated valve that's placed in the heater circuit on air 
conditioned cars is there specifically to reduce the heat inside the AC/
heater plenum to provide for more efficient operation of the AC.  As 
mentioned above, some are mechanical.

     You must not be driving a chevy? There are two plenums in the heater
    housing...one for heat and one for cooling. On all my chevy's the water
    circulates in the heater cores at all times. The heat cool lever
    operates the gate valve between the plenums.
    
     If what you say it true then obviously your defrost doesn't work!
    Because the a/c compressor MUST operate in order to remove the moisture
    from the air. Maybe there is a different circuit in the DEFROST
    position that won't allow the compressor to shut off?
    
     I happen to have the '62 heater housing sitting on my workbench at
    home...it operates just as I explained in 19.47.
    
    Bruce

    
    	Ok! so if what your saying is correct, then when I turn on 
    	the defrost in my 69 Chevelle with out air conditioning, it's
    	not working because I'm not removing the moisture in the air
    	so that the windsheild will defrost? and when in the summer,
    	when I'm driving around the heater is on? 
    	
    		By the way, I had the same vaccum operated control 
    	valve mentioned earlier.
    
    		When the control valve is shut nothing leaks thru.
    	
    		Jeff

     RE: 19.49
    
     I see a lot of things that you wrote in you note that simply don't pan
    out or makes sence at all. 
     I don't know how to extract info from someone elses notes and then use
    them in mine so I'll try to go from memory.
    
     You say that if you never turn on your heater during the summer, and
    when you have the a/c going if you turn the heat lever towards the warm
    side that the compressor stops at about 15% of the way over towards hot?
    But it takes a while before warm air starts coming out, because the
    heater is not on, it's just that the a/c core receives less freon vapor
    from the compressor therefor the air starts warming up because the core
    is less cool?
     
     As long as you have the selector lever in a mode that the compressor
    is running, it should only stop when the incoming air or recirculating
    air is too cold that the a/c core is in danger of freezing up with ice.
    This is controlled via a temp sensor located in the plenum with the
    core. The other instance in when the compressor gets too hot (low on
    freon), which can sometimes blow a fuse to "self" protect itself, or in
    newer cars just stop compressing until freon is diagnosed as being low.
    
     You should notice that when your a/c is running that if you grab the
    temp control lever and instantly move it toward hot, that the air will
    instantly be hot coming out. The gate closes off the a/c air flow to
    the core and switches it to the constantly heated heater core.
     This should happen reguardless of where the output selector is
    positioned at the time. Likewise if is freezing cold out and you have
    the defrost on (pump pumping) and the temp selector on hot....you can
    instantly have cold refrigerated air by instantly turning the heat
    selector to cold. EVERY defrost works like this EVERY one!
     It may be true that when tooling down the road in a big Caddy with the
    temp selector set at a cool 68 deg, the compressor only kicks on and
    off to regulate the air. But in the lesser equiped and cheaper cars
    there is a mixture of hot and cooled air via gating to maintain say 75
    degrees in you car. At 68 degrees that heater side is dampened out
    completely, and the a/c shuts on and off to keep the core from
    freezing. EVERY core has a temp sensor! 
     If you notice.....the force of the air coming out does not change when
    the temp lever is moved back and forth from hot to cool. This tells you
    that the air is gated within the heater a/c housing, yet you notice the
    air instantly changes temperature. The compressor does not change
    speeds to regulate a 75 degree temp in a car, it's either on or off.
     There probably is a switch built into either the gate assy or the dah
    lever that at some set point shuts down the compressor when in the a/c
    mode, but this is not true of the defrost mode. The compressor pumps
    reguardless of temp selector position.
    
    How can I remove parts from someone else note to use in mine as a
    guide?
    
    Bruce
    
    

     re:19.51
    
     Jeff, the answer is...we are talking about a/c controlled cars.
    
     A little different than your non-a/c car. When you are in the defrost
    mode you are not removing the moisture from you cars interior. You are
    turning it into smaller particals of water and spredding it all over
    inside the car. You are simply blowing warm air on the windshield. If
    you ever notice in the winter, you can tell the people without the a/c
    controlled defrost...they are rubbing the insides of the windows trying
    to see out with the defrost running full blast, while the guy sitting
    next to you with a/c cont defrost has a 360 degree clear view out his
    nicely defrosted moisture free windows. Also...well maybe you aren't
    aware...but if you get in you car (a/c cont defrost) after dashing
    through the rain and turn on the defrost that you dry out much faster
    than a non a/c defrost? Also notice that in your '69 chevell when you
    have a bunch of people loaded in there in the winter that the windows
    all fog up even with the defrost going it can barely keep the front
    side window clear?
    
     When driving in the summer if you turn the heater on...then the heater
    is on! The core is always hot or warm depending on if you have
    a restrictor valve or no valve. The gate is closed so you aren't
    feeling the heat coming in from the outside. This allows the heated air
    to escape to the exterior windshield vent system. When you turn on the
    vent system in your car this is where the vented air comes in at. You
    ever notice that when a d**n cat pisses on the windshield or vent area
    of your car that with the vent turned on you can smell it nicely?
    
    Bruce 

     Jeff, how many times have you had to replace the heater core in your
    chevelle?
    
     My guess would be problably never to maybe once in it's lifetime
    because maybe it sat around too long without being circulated. In cores
    the major problem was the the rust from the engine would settle in and
    corrode through eventually. This is why the heater core was added to
    the circulation loop in the mid '60's. 
    
    Bruce

    
    	Never, But I don't think it was because it sat around to long
    	without being circulated. I picked up the car about three years
    	ago from a freind who used the car for his winter driver, instead
    	of the Vette. In the winter the windows did not fog, even when it
    	was packed with people. front window defrost and rear window
        defrost.
    
    	Now what your talking about is relative humidity inside versus
    	outside. the airconditioner does remove some of the humidity,
    	only when it is running and cold enough to draw the humidity
    	out of the air. hot cannot remove humidity from a room, fact 
    	is it contributes to humidity. in an airconditioned car the air
    	will remain humid until your air conditioner is turned on to 
    	cool the air, and only when passed by the condenser. the air
    	conditioner does not run unless the compressor is actived.
    	that only happens in the air condition mode. if you are look-
    	ing at your controls you'll notice air is on one end add heat
    	is on the other. when the control is in the air position, the
    	compressor is engaged and running. not in any other position!
    
    	About the cores corroding away it the engine rust, like you
        mentioned, that corrodes them not the water or lack of. 
    
    	And as long as I'm now involved in this rathole, yes you can
    	plug off the heater, because the water pump on Chevy has
    	a built in by pass, that is what the second hole on one side
    	below the primary water passage is for.
    
    	Jeff

Most GM and Chrysler cars automatically engage the compressor when you
call for defrost. They *won't* engage the compressor if the outside air is
very cold, however.

Bruce

    
    
    	-Not-
    
    	Jeff

     Good Jeff, good, sounds like you're finally getting it! You've only
    repeated what I was telling you in the first place.
     I don't know where you pulled the "yes you can plug off the heater" idea..
    maybe some othe notes conference? It wasn't ever mentioned here in this
    file. 
         
     Why would someone want to do that anyway....unless of course your
    heater core corroded thru due to lack of circulation! :-) And you 
    need to plug it so you can drive it until you get a chance to fix it.
    
     You're right about the humidity but I thought I needn't explain that
    anyway. I figured people knew that one already. Don't forget that you
    breathe too! There is moisture there! Humidity can happen at a wide
    range of temperatures.
    
     I don't know what your controls say but my '73 El Camino, '85 chevy 4x4, 
   '86 Honda wagon, '89 Ford Aerostar, 91 Ford F150 4x4, '91 Ford Aerostar,
    ALL have the defrost position at the far end of the control slide
    switch (opposite end of the a/c position)! This is done to keep people
    from accidently activating the defrost when they want a/c.
    
     You better look at you car a little closer!!
    
    The compress kicks in in the defrost position whether its liquid
    nitrogen cold outside or hot enough to melt blue steel! There's nothing
    you can say to change this fact...sorry! Like I said there is a switch
    that is located in the defrost mode that allows this to happen.
    
     It's about 55 degrees out here today at lunch, and I checked all the
    controls on my '91 F150. Guess what? Yep, they all work exactly like
    I've been trying to tell you. With the a/c on (yes the compressor works
    at 55 degrees) it puts out very cold air, the tach drops when the pump
    pumps. I switched the temperature slide lever to hot as fast as it
    would go....and darnit if there weren't hot air comin outa them there
    vents! (compressor is still pumping, tach is still reading lower).
    Switched it to defrost (compressor still going...just like those damn
    battery commercials).....switched the temp slide back and forth....you
    guessed it...the air temp changed instantly! Boy I tell you..those
    Americans are smart aren't they?
    
    Like the previous noter Bruce wrote.. "A/C may be more that you think"!
    
    Thanks Bruce...but the compressor will come on in liquid nitrogen cold,
    how would you suppose the moisture gets cleared up?
    
     Jeff, I think you need to study your system a little closer! Have someone
    operate the controls while you watch the clutch engage and disengage on
    the compressor. If you have a tach this may not be necessary.
    
    Happy defrosting!
    Bruce    
    

    Since I am the one who started this string with my question...
    
    Why would anyone not want to run a heater?
    
    Because the car is a fair weather car and I deemed it to be not
    necessary.  It also removes a little weight, looks cleaner, and 
    removes a little more heat from the engine compartment by not
    having heater hoses running to the core.
    
    My heater core will not rot because it is no longer in the car.
    
    So far there are no ill effects from blocking the heater connctions
    with plugs.
    
    Mark
    

     For show and speed this is fine.....nothing wrong with that at all!
    Some people run without bumpers, ashtrays, radios, back seats, radiator
    fans (as long as you don't hang around draging main too long this is
    ok), and a wide variety of non-essential car parts to save weight so
    they can blow the doors off other cars.
     I don't think that removing heater hoses is going to save the engine
    compartment from much heat. I would bet that if you ran a temp gage in
    the compartment letting it idle in the hot sun, the you would see maybe
    0-2 degrees different as a whole under the hood. The color of the car
    would affect the heat more than heater hoses would. Also keep in mind
    that the heater radiator helps cool the engine as well. Having the
    heater hooked up will cut the engine compartment heat more than not
    running hoses. Also remember as long as you are moving the air under
    the hood is exchanged so hoses will have no effect on accumulated hot  
    air.
    
     Remember the ol desert trick or just plain ol emergency trick of
    running the heater on full hot with the fan going full blast to cool
    the engine in an "overheating" situation?
    
     The old rodders used to run without radiator fans (saved about 10-15
    hp..before clutch fans came out in '62) to get all the hp they could.
    They relied on the heater cores to get them around town, and when the
    engine would finally get to warm they just headed out to the country to
    cool them off (or highway for the city slickers).
    
    Bruce

    Re: 57, 58
    Fords also kick in the compressor with defrost, as well, based on
    looking at a couple of them this weekend...........
    
    Most compressors will *not*, repeat *not*, kick in when it's around
    freezing or below, because it takes a fair bit of power to run them
    when it's very cold, they can get into problems with freezing in the
    system, and, most of all, they don't *need* to kick in because heating
    the air up by more than 70 degrees causes it to become as dry as a
    desert. Your house is the same way in Winter, unless you have a
    humidifier.
    
    Bruce

             Do any of you small block builders out there have a 
    a motor combination you have put together and been so impressed with
    that you want to tell someone . If so I'd like to know. eg.
    
    You built a SB up and only ran a 600cfm vac sec with this cam, head and
    inlet manifold combo and you got rocket like acceleration or you have
    this secert cam grind you always put in the engine and it's only a mild
    hydrolic but you got 350 hp. on the dyno.
    
    So if you have a good combo you have had in a top street machine i
    would like to hear about it. 

    To end the "Water Valve" issue:
    
    Taken from '69 Chevy service manual page 1A-62
    "The water shut-off vavle is installed in the heater core inlet line.
    When vacuum is apllied to the valve, the valve is closed preventing
    collant flow to the heater core."
    
    Taken from '71 Chevy service manual page 15-53
    "The water shut off valve is threaded into the inlet manifold (except
    Corvette) in the heater core inlet line. When vacuum is applied to the
    valve (controls set at "MAX"), the valve is closed, preventing coolant
    flow through the heater core."
    
    There is no reference to a water valve in the 84 Camaro or 85 Light 
    Truck service manuals. 
    
    I spoke to a friend who is a former mechanic he he stated that this is
    a high failure rate item.

This is for friendly discussions with people who share some interests.
Let's try to not emulate the public nastiness of the 'buffs file.

Thanks.

Bruce

    
    
    	Bruce,
    		In all honesty and without sarcasum(sp), 
    	I apologise for what I said, I just lashed out without,
    	regard.
    
    		No hard feelings?
    
    	Jeff

>    
>     I happen to have the '62 heater housing sitting on my workbench at
>    home...it operates just as I explained in 19.47.
>    
>    Bruce
>

I think this is where you're being lead astray.  There have been 
SIGNIFICANT improvements in climate control in the past 29 years.  Using a 
'62 system for reference doesn't give anyone the impression you really 
understand HVAC at all.

Most newer vehicles run the air through the evaporator and the heater.  
If the defroster is used, the compressor comes on to dry the air.  If only 
heat is required, the compressor is left off.  If only AC is desired, the 
coolant flow through the heater is shut off.

There IS a separate plenum for each core and there's an arrangement of 
shutters that properly routs air for the application desired.  The shutters 
are arranged such that the warmed air can be fed to the outlets along with 
the cooled air in the higher priced cars to provide a more stable "climate 
control".  In less expensive cars the compressor just shuts off and lets in 
warm outside air until the temp rises and the compressor comes back on 
again.  The inexpensive system doesn't utilize engine coolant at all when 
the mode is AC.

This can be checked out in various AC flow charts should you care to study 
them.

skip

    
    	Skip!
    
    	Don't do this.
    
    	Jeff

    
This is probably your basic warmed-over Chevy Small Block.
It takes a 4300lb vehicle with a tired TH350 through the 1/4 in 15.28 just
shy of 91 MPH. That calculates out to about 260 HP (NET)

The biggest improvements have come from the exhaust and from the cold air
induction system. 

I plan to add a high volume fuel pump, and a new Edlebrock 750 CFM carb.

In the Block:
4 bolt mains
Forged crank
TRW forged pistons 9.5:1 compression ratio
Cam - General Kinetics C1H-270-S
	110 lobe centers
	mirror image intake and exhaust
		.454 valve lift
		216 duration @.050
		270 nominal duration
Melling high volume oil pump
 
Intake:
Home-made cold air induction air filter system.
750 CFM Q-Jet stock.
Edlebrock Performer intake manifold
Cast iron heads 1.94/1.50 - (882 castings...not the greatest for sure)

Exhaust:
Hedman Headers 1 1/2 primaries into 3" collectors
2 1/2" exhaust pipes connected with 2 1/4" equalizer pipe.
'72 Caddy mufflers - 2 1/2" in by 2 1/4 out.

Ignition:
GM - HEI distributor with modified advance weights and springs. 12 deg
initial with 32 deg total - 30 deg in at 3000 RPM.
Stock GM ignition wires
AC R44TSX plugs gapped at .045
    
    /tb/(who would like to see the discussion on AC out of the SB Chevy note!)

    19.67....Skip! Finally...someone that knows enough to confirm what I've
    been saying! That's exactly what I've been trying to tell
    everyone....but I guess they've got their own stubborn disbeliefs for
    what ever reason.
    
     Reason for the '62 input was that I was being beaten up for some
    reason ( I think because most of the repliers have older cars and not
    the new car versions of heat and a/c controls we see today), and I used
    that as an example for the older car buffs.
    
     You hit it right on the money on how the systems operate, as I also
    explained in a previous note. Let's see how long it takes for you to get
    beaten up too. As explained by another noter, heater valves went by the
    roadside a long time ago due to failures (corrosion). All plenums that
    house heater cores and a/c core have gates and seperate plenums as far
    as I know. They'd have to!
    
     Jeff, If you are really serious about being apologetic, I think you
    should remove your note of name calling. I don't think anyone likes to
    see accusations like this in notes intentional or not. There is too
    much evidence that supports what I've been saying as well as a few
    other noters for you to argue about anymore anyway. 
    
    BTW, I also checked (double checked) my 91 F150 again this weekend. It
    operates as stated with the either vacuum or solenoid operated water
    valve for the heater core located on the intake manifold up near the
    front. 
     As the smog laws have become tougher especially at startups with a
    cold engine.....the whole idea behind smog control is to warm up the
    engine as soon as possible on a cold startup. This done by running (in
    some cars) hot air from the exhaust manifolds into the air cleaner
    until the temp reaches a certain point. Also as stated the water to the
    heater core is shut down or resticted serverily until the engine
    recirculated water reaches a set point (educated guess set point is
    probably around 85-100 degrees) and then is opened to allow the heater
    core to come up to temp.
    
     Also noted after talking to a few people....those cars (all foreign so
    far) with a push button A/C don't kick in the compressor on defrost.
    American motor cars (AMC, JEEP) kick in the compressor.
    
    But this note is about muscle and domestic cars isn't it?
    
     No more from me ever on A/C is this notes file..enough said!
    
    Bruce B. 

|<<< Note 19.68 by BSS::PRIDDY "No sir, How Fast was I going?" >>>
|-< Please >-
|
|    
|    	Skip!
|    
|    	Don't do this.
|    
|    	Jeff

Huh?

I thought I was politely pointing out where he'd become confused.  I build 
and wire street rods in my spare time and fooling around with modified AC 
is one of the things that comes with the hobby.

I've also disassembled a lot of heater/AC units from cars I've stripped.

I was working in the HVAC industry when I got the hernia that sent me to 
college and eventually got me my job at Dec 19 years ago.

My intention is to point people in the right direction so they can find out 
more about the subject(s) being discussed.  (sorta like the "for more 
information about this broadcast read these books" messages at the end of 
TV specials)

Bruce and I are discussing this off line but I wanted to put in a technical 
point about AC that might clear up a bit of confusion for some folks.

There are two basic types of automotive air conditioning systems, those
that run the compressor constantly and adjust the level of heated air from
the heater to "balance" the output and those that cycle the compressor and
balance the output with the outside air.  The latter is the more efficient
method.  The former provides a more comfortable environment.

The "leave the compressor on all the time" systems provide DRY air all the
time, even if they have to heat it afterwards to maintain the desired
temperature.  This is the way most defroster systems work, BTW.  The 
constantly-running compressor is a power-robber.

Conversely, the cycling compressor method provides a substantially less 
power-robbing scenario.

To keep the cabin temperature cool, the hot engine coolant is kept on the
front of the firewall.  This reduces the demand on the compressor, thus
increasing fuel economy.  When the temp inside gets cool enough, the
compressor shuts off.  Air keeps flowing across the evaporator but the
evaporator gradually warms up.  When it reaches a threshold, the compressor
comes back on again.  This type of system alternately provides cool dry air
and warming, more moist air.  If you try and set one of these systems on 
anything but "cold" the oscillation between dry and damp air becomes a bit 
more apparent, especially when it's an Avis rental in Irvine, Ca in rush 
hour traffic.  :-(

    re..19.62
    
     I replied to your note requestiong info on small block hot engines.
    I built a 406 small block and a 302 small block with really good
    results, and gave all the info. But the system put them in a "temp
    file" somewhere. The system said to type "show error" and it said it
    was filed in this temp file. 
     Maybe the moderator can find it and post it here??
    
    Bruce 
    

    re 19.73
               I hope the info turns up as i am very thirsty for info on
    SB engines that are norminally aspirated that people have built up that
    really preform on the street without sacrificing reasonable idle and
    driveability. The reason i am after this is because i am about to
    embark on a rebuild of a SB. I have an 010 block , 186 cast heads with
    202 inlet and 1.6 exhaust with extensive port and polish work.110 lb
    on the seat springs. Port matched edilbrock preformer inlet manifold,
    600cfm vac sec holley carb. The distributer is a points job but i have
    built a transistor assisted ignition and the dizzy has been curved.
    The cam i am going to use is a speed pro grind that is one step back
    from the 327/350 hydrolic cam . It's specs are @50
    
                inlet   214     (advertised 288) total lift .442
                exh     224     (advertised 298) total lift .465
    
    By this cam you can see i am after low and midrange grunt with some top
    end. I have not gone into the bottom end much as it will have the
    required build to handle the horses. eg rollmaster double row chain,
    all balanced..etc
    
    My delemia is how big can i go on the cam lift without going to
    roller rockers as i already have a like new set of hardened long slot
    ball pivot rockers..still keep a good idle and low end torque. I am
    the sort of guy who likes rocket acceleration from the lights from
    idle. Should i go to a 750 cfm vac sec with this combo..should i go
    to a bigger hydrolic cam..The rest of the combo 's performance will
    depend on those two and that's where i can't quite make up my mind.
    Should i use that cam and carb or go bigger.
    
    Any input based on experience would be greatly appriciated.
    
                                     An anxious Small Block Builder
                                       brad.

    
      Brad,
    
    I think the cam you have picked out will do just about what you want
    it to.  Do you have to pass any emissions tests?  If so, you may
    want to go to a cam with shorter duration numbers.
    
    If you are considering a cam with more lift, you will probably need to
    have the heads machined for screw in rocker studs and guide plates.
    (If they don't already have them)  The long slot non-roller rockers you 
    have should be fine with more lift, however, I wouldn't use them if you
    go above about .530" lift.  My opinion is they tend to create to much
    valve guide wear with high lift cams.
    
    Whatever cam you use, be sure to check with the cam maker for their
    recommended spring seat pressures.  110 sounds right for the cam you
    gave the specs for, but might be a little light if you go with more
    lift.
    
    Tom
    
    

    Start with the 600CFM Holly and get yourself an adjustable secondary
    spring kit. You can play with the opening of the secondaries and get
    really fine tuned with that.
    
    You'll also want to get some additional primary jets to play with.
    I suspect you'll end up wanting to be a couple of sizes bigger than
    stock...around 69's if I remember right.
    
    The 600CFM should work fine for you up to about 6000RPM.
    
    /tb/

     I accidently lost the note I entered yesterday on the two small
    blocks. I tried to delete it and then reply/edit/last to add a couple
    of things to it and poof it was gone. So when I get some time I'll add
    it again!!###
    
     Also check out the specs for the mechanical cam for the older Z-28's.
    It's a really good cam! You can find a supplier in the Hemmings Motor
    news. For around $100.00 you get the cam and lifters. I bought the 350
    horse 327 cam from them and installed it in a 72 chev truck with a 350.
    I prefer the 327 350 hp over the 350 350 hp cam, and so do the
    mechnanic at the dealerships (for what ever reason).
    
    Bruce

It's doubtless that the old L-79 (350hp 327) and the 350/350 cams are good.  From
what I have been able to learn though there are alternatives out there that will 
produce the same or more power and are more user friendly to boot.  By user 
friendly, I mean better idle quality and more vacuum.

Most of the dual pattern cams work quite well.

Mark

    I've got to agree with Mark on the L79 (327 350hp) cam concerning idle
    quality and vacuum. I have this cam installed in my 71 Monte Carlo
    which has, auto, A.C. and power brakes. The vacuum is low and the idle 
    is rough. Of course this cam is for a stick car and not recommended for
    an auto. I made mine work better by installing it 4 degrees advanced 
    which brought the power band down by about 500 rpm and smoothed out the
    idle somewhat. Still, with a 4 speed conversion in the near future I'll
    be changing the cam to newer technology. A lot has changed in cam tech
    in the 26 years since the L79 cam was introduced.
     

    guys,
        I am enjoying the reading and the tips and comments.I am down in 
    Australia so REAL small block experience is short on the ground.I don't
    have any emmission control to worry about for what i am going to put
    the engine into so i virtually can do what i like. Except a blower..
    
        I agree with what you say about the 327/350 cam that it was and
    still is a good cam but technology has changed a lot since it came
    off the drawing board.
        My 600cfm has 66 primary jets and the next spring down in tension
    from the stock. I am going to put a SECONDARY metering block on it.
    Any one have a suggestion for the jet size for that. I THOUGHT 67 ??
    
       ANYONE have any really good buildup tricks for the motor that gives
    extra horsepower ??  As i want all i can get with the baby cam and
    carb. HAS anyone ever used a SPEEDPRO GRIND CS1013R which is what the
    cam is ? Also has anyone ever used a CRANE HMV272 CAM , if so what did
    it peak at and what was performance like.
    
       Should i stay with the cam i have got and plonk a 750cfm vac sec on
    top of it all. Please Keep the Good Info Coming.
    
                     brad.

Brad,

That cam that you gave the specs for 5 or 6 notes back sounds almost exactly 
(lift and duration) like the one I have in my 327.  The Schnider grind that I
have has 112 degree lobe centers and 56 degrees of overlap.  Check the cam card 
and see what your's is.  I'd be interested.

If the LC and overlap are close to mine, the cam should work really well.  With
the relatively mild overlap and the 112 degree LC, the cam idles decently.  It 
is not a real thumper at idle but it doesn't have a stock smooth idle either.
I have not run it really hard yet (only 350 miles on the engine) but it seems to
pull really strong through the mid range up to the 4800 rpm max that I have had 
it to.  Peak horsepower should come at around 5500 rpm.  I live at about 6600 
feet and it pulls 10.5 inches of vacuum at idle.

Running this much cam or more will work better if you run mid 3's or lower (I 
run 3.55) rearend gears and a looser than stock torque converter if you are 
backing it with an automatic.

Mark

 

     RE. .79
    Please let us know the details of the 4-speed conversion on your Monte.
    I am considering doing that to my Grand Prix, and I could use some
    extra info.
    
    Rich

    re: .80
    
    Brad,
    
    I wouldn't exactly refer to the cam you gave the specifications for
    as a "baby" cam.  If you go to a more radical cam grind, the 
    driveability of the vehicle will really suffer.  This isn't a problem 
    on a race only vehicle, as they are usually operated at wide open 
    throttle.  On a mostly street vehicle, a radical cam grind will make 
    the vehicle a chore to drive, instead of a pleasure.  You will have to 
    feather the throttle every time you start from a standstill, you will 
    have poor fuel economy, and lousy exhaust emissions.  Plus, any extra 
    power the engine develops will be at such a high engine speed that it 
    will rarely be usable on a public road.  
    
    I wouldn't consider using a single pattern cam grind that has any 
    more than 290 degrees of duration (advertised) in a small block engine 
    that will be regularly driven on the street.  Some people think even 
    that is too much duration.  A little more duration may be tolerable 
    with a dual pattern grind.  
    
    As far as lift specifications go, it again depends on intended
    application.  Racers are willing to replace worn and broken components
    on a regular basis, but most people would rather have longevity in a
    street driven engine.  
    
    Just to give you a little perspective,  As little as three years ago, I
    considered the above opinions to be "hogwash".  I've learned the
    hard way that it isn't.  (two cam and lifter changes, two sets of rocker 
    arms, and three sets of pushrods later... :-( )  What can I say, I'm 
    stubborn.  :-)
    
    Tom
    

    Guys,
        It's good to hear the comments from people that have been there.To
    answer mark's question the lobe centre is 112 degrees but the overlap
    on the valves is a whopper 69 degrees. About as radical as you get for
    the street as far as overlap goes.This cam is a class B speedpro one
    and they promise good idle so it should be interesting.I think the lift
    and the 50 thu (214) duration probably compensate ( I hope ) for the
    idle. This should keep the inlet gas speed up especially for a 350.
       This cam is certainly turning out to be an interesting one. Any
    educated guess 's as to how many horses i should get . Compression will
    be 10.2 : 1 or there abouts and i run on super grade fuel. 
       The exhaust is very restrictive on this setup, in fact it's woeful.
    due to space restrictions i can only have log type manifolds but have
    a straight through 2.5 inch system hence the pick of the split duration
    cam with the bigger exhaust. I am trying to get about 340 or better
    horses.
    
                                    brad.

Brad,

The combination that I have (I sent it to you in mail) puts out 315-325 hp on
the dyno.  I have about the same CR as you 10:1, and you have 25 or so more cubic
inches so I would guess that your combination will probably put out 325-340 hp.
You may loose some with out headers though.  Do you not have any room for rams
horn exhaust manifolds or shorty street rod headers?  What are you putting the
engine in?

I am not sure how much of a difference the extra 13 degrees overlap will make to
your 350.  I have a little less overlap, but I have the cam in a smaller engine
too.  Like I said before it idles fine and idles without a complaint in gear too.

When I put it all together, I did put in some extra parts for a hopefully long
lived , stable valve train.  For insurance I used screw in studs, guide plates, 
3/8" chrome molly push rods, and Comp Cams Magnum roller tipped rockers.

Mark

    mark, 
         How do you find the comp roller tipped rockers.Do they give the 
    results as i was thinking of putting them in this setup. Why i want the
    acceleration,idle,good low and midrange power for this setup and can't
    run headers is this motor, even though i have a v8 commodore over here.
    ( it's made by holden..a division of general motors) this 350 is in my
    centre mount ski-boat and has water cooled manifolds..yes a road toad..
    Now don't you guys go quiet on me because this one's for the boat as
    all motor tricks apply just as well and a torquey blast off the line
    setup is what i need as the gearbox (dog clutch) ratio is 1:1. Also i
    use it for the odd bit of ski racing.
    
                                    brad.

The rockers seem to be working fine.  A friend of mine put about 70k very hard 
miles on his and when we tore the engine down, they looked great.

I decided to use them because I liked the idea of the roller tip because it helps
reduce side loading on the valve which in turn makes valve guides last longer.  
They are also equalized at a ratio of 1.52 which gives a tiny extra bit of lift 
over stock.  Stock rockers have a tolerence of 1.46 - 1.52 (or something like
that).

It sounds like you are putting together quite the boat.  It ought to be a fun 
ride.

Mark

    You can also get them with a ratio of 1.6, which will give a higher lift
    to the valve. MR

    guys,
        I am getting very interested in these roller tipped rockers. The
    studs in my heads are pinned so i do not need screw in. Do the end of
    the studs have to be flat like you need for needle rollers or do you
    just need a pivot and ball setup.If the setup is standard pivot and
    ball then i think i'll get a set as i can get them mail order from
    PAW on the west coast to Australia at a good price.
    
       Also is it worth getting the 1.6 ratio with my cam or just stick to
    the stock 1.5. ANY IDEAS ?? please.
    
    When not on the sreet WET AND WILD is the way to go.
    
                                           Brad.

The CC Magnum roller tipped rockers do not need any kind of special stud. They
have rollers on the valve end of of the rocker.  They use a grooved rocker ball
and lock nut similar th a stock rocker.  They are not a full roller rocker.  I 
have read and heard that the 1.6 rockers work ok but put a much higher load on
the other valvetrain components than the standard ratio.  I would decide on a 
cam and then call the manufacturer of the cam and see what rocker ratio they
recommend for the cam selected and the CID of the engine.

Mark

    1.6:1 will add about .040 to the max lift...IF your cams lift + .040 is
    over about .470..you should check a number of things out.
    
    What's the new spring pressure going to be?
    Will the new lift clear the pistons?
    You may need to use guide plates.
    You WILL change the contact angle between the rockers and the valves
    which can cause additional valve guide wear.
    Will you need taller valve covers as well?
    
    I've been looking into 1.6:1's and I'm not ready for all the other
    things that I MAY need to do. From what I can tell this is NOT
    a "Bolts right up" add on. Look into it and read up on it...
    make a few calls before you spend $$$.
    
    Err on the side of caution and get the 1.5:1's to start...you make the
    other changes later if necessary.
    /tb/
    

    guys,
          Thanks for the info on the magnum rollers.I have another question
    that i hope someone will have the answer for.
    What are the spec's on the camshaft that edilbrock sell to go with
    their PERFORMER PLUS inlet monifold.?
                    ----
    
    That's right, the plus manifold that goes from 1500 to 6000 rpm.I am
    extremely interested to know.
    
                                   Brad.

    Re. Brad
    
     Ski boat/ski racing..I have friends heavily into ski racing in Calif.
    both in boat building and engine building..Ski racing puts a very heavy
    load on the engine and we are talking a bit different here than in
    street applications..Mainly the sustained high RPM's necessary..I
    assume you have a modified V hull with a turbo 400 and a V-Drive..
     In this application (if you want to be competitive) very few of the
    parts from GM will work..If you have to, you can use the crank, the GM
    racing rods, and the heads..Best check things often as they will
    break..The prefered method is an after market crank and Carello rods..
    Use plasma rings as they seem to hold up better at the sustained
    RPM's..If you go over 12:1 compression have the heads groved and wired
    or you will experience a severe case of blow by near the rear chambers.
    If you go 13:1 or better you will neeed to add another head bolt and
    modify the water jacket slightlyto stablize things..(I can send you 
    the info on loaction if needed)..Have the heads welded and get rid of 
    the press fit studs..Use screw ins and not the GM ones..Even with the 
    lift cam you have mentioned in here your valve train will break (when
    kept at 5000+ RPM for the sustained period of ski racing)..Use the good 
    Crane rollers (they have two grades availible), guide plates, and the 
    moley push rods (as the ends on the stock GM's will break off..Use a 
    good double roller timing chain with billet gears (we have found the
    crane unit the best) and not a gear drive as the gear drive sets up an 
    odd harmonic that in a boat will drive you nuts and cause some other 
    interesting problems.
     Enough for now, if you have any more specific question send me a
    note..
    
    Jim
     

    Jim,
       I would appreciate all you have on engine configerations for
    ski/racing. I race in centre mount class which is called lane racing.
    each boat has its own lane with 2 skiers behind and qickest between
    the two buys wins.The small block combo i'm putting together is as
    follows and i have no stepup the drive is 1:1.Straight dog clutch.
    
                1. 186 cast fuellie heads 64cc chambers ported and polished
                   with 2.02 inlet and 1.6 exhaust valves.Bronze guide
                   inserts.Heads skimmed for flat.
    
                2. 110 lb seat pressure speedpro lt1 springs. trw retainers
                   and valve locks. pinned studs (GM).
                 
                3. Edilbrock preformer inlet manifold with modified 600
                   holley.eg choke cut out and throats cleaned up.
                   secondary metering block. 66 primary jets and 68 sec.
                   vac sec spring tension spring one lighter than stock.
                   holley flows 700 cfm
    
                4. points dizzy but transister assisted ignition.max
                   advance 32 deg. all in by 3000rpm. 11 deg at idle.
    
                5. Speedpro cs1013r cam (see specs in previous note)
                   speedpro lifters and pushrods. TRW hardened long slot
                   rockers 1.5:1 ratio.
    
                6. 4 bolt block (010) 40 thu over gives 360 cubes. stock
                   crank. rods resized shotpeeened etc. forged trw pistons
                   flat top gives 10.2 :1 compression. Rollmaster double
                   row chain and steel gears.
    
     As you can tell this is no firebreather but should be good to 5500
     spinning a 12x15 prop. I have to stay fairly tame as most of its
     work is social sking with the odd day racing.
    
                                         brad.

A minor nit Brad.  A .040 over 350 Chevy gives you 357 cid.  A .060 over 350
gives you 360 cid.  :-)

Mark

    guys,
        The tension wrench has been clicking madly.The motor is abouut 2/3
    finished.Should have an interesting ride in about 2 weeks.
    
                            Brad.
    

    
    >>in How to hot rod Small block chevys...Written by Bill Jenkins.
                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Dumb question
    
    What ever happened to Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins???
    At one time, he WAS Pro-Stock, then I left the States for a couple of
    year, and I haven't heard of him since.
    
    JaKe
    
    
    

It seems to me that I heard that Grumpy is an engine builder these days.

Mark

    He's still involved in a pro-stock car (which one escapes me at the
    moment) and is also heavy into NASCAR engine building.
    
    Stan

    The reason I had asked is that before i went overseas, I had heard he
    had failing eyesight, not bad enough to go blind, but bad enough to
    force him to stop DRIVING.  I remember his cars being driven by another
    driver, but can't remember who.  Larry someone maybe???
    
    
    Thanks for the replies.
    
    JaKe
    

    I believe Joe Lepone had "da Grump" wrenching his car a while back.
    I visited Jenkins Competition a few years back while on a business trip
    to Pa. Grump says he's all done racing. Says it's gotten old. He
    enjoyed it back in the 60's and 70's. Now it's too expensive. Still
    builds engines though. By the way, he IS grumpy, literally........
    
    
    John

    hi,
       For anyone interested in what the 350 combination i have put
    together goes like.. It is extremely strong. Torque is downright
    incredible.I have not put my foot down to hard yet as i only ran
    it in the water last sunday. I'll have to let in run in a bit, but
    the throttle response is very good. I would love to get it dynoed on
    an engine dyno to see how many horses it has but that cost bucks and
    I'M fresh out of them. This combo would really make a good street
    engine and give economy as well. To say i am happy with my ride
    would be an understatement but... a big block would be the go.
    
                                    regards,
                                    brad.

Does anybody offer a good set of "street" valve springs in the proper
height for a late model, smog-legal small block?

Before you laugh out loud, consider that 1.70" springs won't cut it on the
exhaust side, since the stock valve rotators cut the installed height to
1.61". Chevrolet installs two different springs from the factory, but only the
intake is the standard 1.70" height.

The Bow-Tie book lists only 1.70" springs, with a stacked-solid height of either
1.15" or 1.16". With 1.6 rockers and a 1.61" installed height, the stock cam
will compress the exhaust springs to 1.159" - clearly a no-no, not even
considering the excess seat pressures involved at 1.61" with springs designed
for 1.70".

The Competition Cams people offer only 1.70" springs, with the "street" variant
specing out at 120 lbs seat pressure and 270 lbs @ .500 lift. My factory springs
call for 80 lbs on the seat, so 120 might be just a tad high, but OK with me.
110 lbs would be perfect, but of course the real issue is the 1.61" exhaust.

I know, I know, ditch the rotators. I will if I have to, but I'd rather keep
them.

Anybody have the straight skinny on this?

Thanks,

Bruce

    Bruce, what does Chevy use on the HO 350? Do those heads come with
    rotators? If so, then the local Chevy parts guy should be able to help.
    
    Harry
    

I recently picked up an air compressor and have visions of maybe doing some head 
porting on the Vega engine.  

The heads that I am working with are the 67 vintage "462" casting heads with 
2.02/1.60 valves.  They are mounted on a 331 (327 +.030).  The peak housepower 
occurs at about 5500 rpm and I typically shift when racing at 6300 rpm.

The question is, is it worth the time and effort to do port matching or any
other porting work?  What kind of gains could I reasonably expect?

Thanks,
Mark

    Hi,,,
    Smoothing out under the valve seat and knocking off the rough spots
    is supposed to be worth ~20 horse or so. All SBC heads I've ever seen
    have major ridges under the valve seat. I pocket ported my heads,gasket
    matched the outsides, and polished the exhaust ports. I don't really
    know what I gained, but I lost over a second in the quarter mile.
    That gain may have been from adding 50 cubes at the same time, under
    the ported heads though. (-:
    
    					Brian...

I'm looking for some help in determining the origins of the 327ci in the '55
Chevy I recently picked up.  As with most older cars with engine swaps, the 
seller says "yeah, it's a 327 'vette motor...at least that's what the guy 
who sold it to me said...blah, blah..".  My motivation for buying the vehicle 
wasn't for the motor and I would not be suprised it if were not out of a '62-
'68 Corvette (the 327 years, if I recall).  

I've checked my Corvette black book and can't seem to find any engine suffix
that corresponds to the "KL" on my block. The stamping is weird anyways, as 
there is some other, more crude, stamping over the factory one.  Does anyone
have any idea what vehicle this motor may have originally come in and/or the 
factory HP rating?  It's also got the camel hump heads but I'm not sure if they
have always been with the block.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide,

/jim

Jim,

I'll look it up in my motors manual tonight and see what it says.

Mark

    327's were '62 to '67.
    
    I'll see if I can find something in my ref books tonight if I remember.
    What are the head casting numbers? Might as well look those up too.
    
    /tb/

Also check the casting date codes on the block and heads.  It may provide more
clues.
Matt

rep .109

Nit alert.  :-)

327s were made through the 69 model year.  The 69s were the large journal 
variety.  I can't remember if the 68 were large or small journal.  67 and 
older were small journal.

    Re .107
      I like those 55 Chevy's.  What are your plans for it?
    
    Rich

Jim,

I could not find a "KL" in my manual.  The only "K" codes were "KH" (67 Corvette
327 special high performance engine, A\C, AIR) and "KE" (67 full size Chevrolet
with 4-speed transmission).

FWIW, the 68 327s were small journal.  I should have known that since I have one
in my Vega.  :-)

Mark

    ...that's what you get for looking in a book that was published in '67!
    Sorry 'bout that....I should have gone with what I knew rather than
    what I read.
    /tb/

    i found the KL code.  it came out of a 1967 full size chevrolet and was
    275hp.  the KL, KM, and KE codes only appeared in 1967 so maybe it was
    a california block with air pump or something else weird.  the block
    only indicates car body and accessory usage originally.  your engine
    may have been upgraded with corvette camshaft, pistons and heads
    therefore making it the same horsepower as a corvette engine. that is
    done frequently.

RE: -.1 thanks!
    
OK guys, sorry for the delay.  Here are the numbers.  I got all the ones I
could find just in case someone out there has a source for the others.

Block Casting # 3903852
Block Stamping  K0511KL
Block Date	D257

Head Casting #  3890462

Intake		3905383


As far as my plans for the car go....?  Well, it's a solid (no rust/bondo)
'55 2dr 210 sedan.  I'm pulling the doghouse off this weekend to begin the
front end rebuild (everything).  I plan on building a mild street rod - i.e.
due to finances I'm going to have to live with this motor and the factory
3-speed and rear.  With time and $$ I hope to get a 4-speed and a posi
rear in place.  I recently had to purchase a new family-mobile (Caravan) 
and that kind of wiped out my funds for this car.  Building on a budget will
have a whole new meaning.  Other things on the agenda are to lower the front
end the poor man's way (68 camaro springs will drop the fron end about 2 1/2"
at the expense of suspension travel) and I'm going the monochrome look on the 
front grille/bumper and rear bumper.  I'll keep the side moulding/headlight
etc..chrome.  The firewall with be smoothed - battery in trunk and wiper motor
under the dash.  I need advice on relocating the master cylinder...

I know you'll be getting a lot of questions one I'm into this thing a bit more.

Thanks for the help,

/jim           

    Jim, my next door neighbor just bought a lowered '55 in primo
    condition. (Rust isn't much of a problem in Texas). He hates the ride
    and is looking for a set of stock 55 springs. Perhaps we could work out
    a swap via UPS?
    
    Harry
    

    Hi Harry,
    
    Thanks, but I've already got the springs...He doesn't like the ride,
    huh?  Maybe I'll think twice about the quick and dirty lowering route.
    The right way is through dropped spindled but they get into a few
    bucks.  I mean, I don't *need* to do it, I just like the stance of the 
    car with the front lowered a bit.  I'll tell you what, I'll have no use
    for the stock (I beleive, heavy duty) springs so I'll unload them for
    cheap if he'd like them.
    
    /jim

    re:-1
    
    more info...
    
    the block is out of a '67 full size chevy,  275hp  327".   the date
    code is d= april; 25= 25th day; 7= 1967   so April 25, 1967 is the date
    the block was built.
    
    head casting was used on 300hp and 350hp engines (327) in 1967.
    
    the intake is not a corvette intake.  probably is 275hp if a 2bbl, or
    300hp/350hp if a 4 bbl.
    
    good luck on your project!
    
    steve

    Thanks, Steve et al (and Val for all the off-line info he gave me). 
    I'm looking forward to getting into the project...Looks like I'll 
    be pulling the doghouse this weekend and I'll be starting the front
    end work. Thanks again and I'll keep you guys posted,
    
    /jim

    I had two engines given to me one is a 350 truck engine.
    The other is supposed to be a 327.However I have my doughts.
    The casting # is 3956632 I can not match this up to any numbers
    in my books.Can anyone help.It has a points distributor and an
    aluminum intake(aftermarket?)

Hi Val,
Can you get the numbers that are stamped on the front of the block?
Matt

    Hi Matt ,
    The numbers on the font of the block are 632.The numbers on the back
    are. 618 and 632.
    
    Val

Hi Val,
Do you have the numbers stamped on the block?  (they would have been wiped out
though if the block had been decked).  They'd be just to the front of the pass-
enger side cylinder head, on the block deck, above where the water pump is.
Matt

It would include the VIN number.
Matt

    Matt,
    Those are all the numbers I found.I'll look again this weekend and
    see if there are any more I may have overlooked.
      
    Val
    
                               
        

    Matt,
    Those are all the numbers.I checked them again to see it I copied them
    correctly.They are correct,and I still can't find them anywhere.e

Lately, actually all along, I have been thinking about building a *real* engine
for the Vega.  The 327 that I have now is ok but, it's just not fast enough. For
the next couple of seasons.  I will continue to use the 327 to learn about 
timing, carb tuning, and starting line techniques.  Besides I still need need to
paint the Vega and do some interior work.

One thing that I have thought of is that I have a set of Moroso nodular iron
splayed 4-bolt main caps for a small journal SBC.  I also have a large journal
forged steel crank for a 350 that needs some welding on a rod journal or two.
The question is can I use the two together?  Instead of welding up the crank to
enable it to be used in a large journal application, why not just have the mains
turned down .100 and use it in a small journal block with the Moroso main caps.
Is this feasible?  

I want a the next engine to have a stouter lower end because It will most likely 
see 6500 to 7000 rpm shifts and I plan on having about 100 hp over what I have 
now.  Maybe just having the crank welded up and calling it done.  I am asking 
this now because I am going to be collecting the parts over time for the next 
engine as I come across "deals".

Also, how much of a hassle would it be to run methanol in a vehicle that sees
very limited street use?  How much more expensive is methanol over race gas?

Thanks,
Mark

    
        Mark...as a rule, drag racers do not want a large journal crank
    because of the higher bearing speeds. You might want to leave the caps
    alone and look for a forged small journal crank. If I were keeping the 
    engine speed under 6k it would not bother me, but 7k rpm is where 
    you start to see oiling problems on the large journals.  This is from
    the Bill Jenkins small block chevy book....fwiw
    
    -john

Thanks John.  Lanier told me something similar when he was doing the machine work
on my 327.  I have a forged steel small journal crank in my 327 now in a 2 bolt 
block.  I was thinking that if the I could cut down the forged 350 crank that I 
have, I could pick up the extra 24 cid basically for free on the next rebuild.

Mark  

    Mark,
    There shouldn't be any problems with turning down the crank.I know a
    person who has done this and had no problems in the past.My suggestion 
    however would be to can the 4bolt main caps,and use a 2 bolt main stud
    kit.It will save you ALOT of money, as align boring and taping the block
    is not a cheep and easy process.It will also eleviate the potential
    problems that will arise when align boring the block.You can use that
    extra money for a set of custom pistons.If memory serves me you will
    need them as with the new stroke you will be running a positive deck
    height(cant rember the exact #'s)But you'll be above the deck just the
    same.Unless you run more than 550hp the 2 bolt main will hold up
    just fine.As long as it isn't being used for a long distance endurance
    type stuff.I am sure that however will be a point of controversey.
    For a  bracket race motor 2 bolt mains will be just fine.

    
     I've been running two bolt blocks in my stock cars for the last two
    years without any trouble. These are run in an rpm range from 48-6300
    rpm. I would prefer not to, but with an engine claim rule over my head,
    I'm just not willing to give up a good four bolt block for chump
    change. Of course, those full rpm starts that drag racing induces are
    pretty hard on a bottom end. Probably much harder than sustained high
    rpm usage.
    
    TC
    

    
    I'd like some input from you Chevy people out there.
    I've got a 1979 Malibu with a 267 2V.  The car has single
    exhaust, a TH350, and gears in the high 2.XX's.  I recently installed
    a Competition Cams 252H, steel timing chain, and TRW hydraulic lifters.
    The car now runs very well, with a moderate power gain from stock.
    However, motorheads being as they are, I'd like MORE POWER!!!!
    
    Here's where it gets sticky.  I don't want to spend money - so headers,
    intake and 4V are out.  What I'm looking for are cheap mods that will
    wring the most out of the existing setup.  Stuff like recurved
    distributors, 1.6 rockers, rejet carb,etc.  Now I'm not looking to 
    run 13's, but have some fun and optimize the admittedly anemic 267.
    
    Any thoughts?  tips?
    
    Tom
    

    
      Tom,
    
    Install dual exhaust, using the stock manifolds, and a JY cat
    for the new side.  Or if the JY wants to much for the cat, try 
    some of the aftermarket cats availible by mail order.  Check the ads
    in the nut books for best prices.  
    
    While you're at the JY, price a differential.  Maybe you can find
    one that is geared in the mid to high 3's.  This won't improve the
    power, but it will seem that way.
    
    Tom
    

    I'd go with headers.  They can be cheap (in more ways than one), and
    for the performance gain you get, it is easily worth it.  You should
    be able to install headers and a full dual exhaust for $150.
    
    Call Summit Racing in Akron Ohio.  They probably have pre-bent pipes
    also.        

    
    Tom,
    
    Thanks for the tip.  I'd love to go duals, but this may not
    pass visual at the annual inspection -- even with the dual
    cats.  Also, this is slightly more money than I want to spend.
    I'd really like to mess around with ultra low buck stuff, things
    like lighter mechanical advance springs, rejetting, etc.
    
    My motivation for keeping it cheap is that this is a Malibu 4 door
    and any serious money spent hopping it up would be a waste.  However,
    I would like it to be entertaining to drive despite the two "extra"
    doors.
    
    Tom

    How low buck do you want to get?  The cheap stuff will hardly be
    noticable.  The mods you mention, i.e. super-tuning your car may be
    worth a few 10ths maybe,  barely noticeable.  Any serious gain (that
    you can feel via seat of the pants, or via a timeslip) will
    require hard parts (gear/headers/etc...).   
    
    Sounds like you also have to deal with those dreaded emissions
    inspectors.  What happens if you rejet your carb and fail the sniff
    test?  Recurving your distributor just makes the advance come on
    quicker. 
    
    If you want to stay emissions legal, go with the gear.  Now your
    talking about labor.  What's your budget?
    
    FWIW: I have a '74 chevelle.  350 2v, bone stock.  2.73 gears.  TH350.
    I wanted more beans, so I tossed on headers.  Instant improvment.  That 
    did the trick until the cam went.  Once I stuck the 454 in it, the gears 
    allowed the car to put-put along at 75mph.  The gear will get a heavier 
    car rolling QUICK, although it will cut your top-end.  
    
    (hmmm.  Since I converted most of my stuff to big-block, I got TONS
    of old small block parts.  Including the headers from the Chevelle).
    
    Mike                                 

    Tom,
    
     Why bother doing anything?? This is supposed to be a daily driver.
    Think about it. It's a 267 4 door Malibu, nothing special. Why waste
    any money? 
    
    Chris

	Thomas my son,



 Put collision on it, crash it, scam the insurance company and take the cash

and buy something with either a 350 or a 400 small block. Why waste any money 

on a grandma car?   Why, my defroster motor is bigger than 267CID.... :-)



						Your conscience.....

    
    Chris,
    
    You're a knucklehead.  Read the entire string.... I don't want to
    spend money on this, just optimize what currently exists.
    
    Mike,
    
    Whaddya think, I live in Lawrence or something????......... 8^)
    
    Seriously though Mike, I noticed your pickup has a lot more oomph than
    an emissions era 305 has a right to.  I also know you've monkeyed
    around with jetting and the mixture screws.  The Malibu still has a 
    slight lean stumble which I'd like to get rid of.
    
    Tom

Tom, Seeing how you're so proficient in taking off the intake manifold,
how about going to a quadrajet 4bbl? Also put on a freeflow muffler, larger
diameter pipe from the cat. back. A  used quadrajet setup is cheap.


Ross

      Tom, why don't you just leave it as is?  After all, it is
    a just a beater right?  I used to get tempted to squeeze
    extra power from my winter cars, but in the end, I had
    better ways to spend my time.
    
    Rich

    I'd have to agree with the muffler idea.                         
    
    Order one of those nasty sounding trumpet deals, along with a pair
    of fuzzy dice & the standard neon accoutraments.  
    
    Hey, if ya can't run like a badboy, at least you'll be _looking_ cool. ;') 

    
    Okay, okay.
    
    I give up.  Yes this is a driver, beater, etc. but I just can't
    help longing for some more power.
    
    Maybe my time is better spent elsewhere......
    
    Besides -- I can't take anymore ribbing from those Salem boys.  Hey
    Gilon, I saw the channel 9 news last night about an armed standoff on
    Ash St.  Thought it might be you........
    
    Tom

    
  >>>  Hey Gilon, I saw the channel 9 news last night about an armed 
  >>>  standoff on Ash St.  Thought it might be you........
    
       Nah, just some guy shot his sofa.... probably wasn't given him 
       the support he needed!!! 


	BTW does your Malibu feature the standard Rochester 2 bbl or the
	2 bbl Q-Jet? Either way, a slight performance tune/re-jet should
 	make the car run smoother. I have a tendency to beat cars that
	don't run smooth....kinda like a reaction to an irritant :-)

    
     Mopar performance recently did an experiment on the Jeep 360 engine
    that started out with what you are requesting. It eventually did get
    into some expensive and radical mods, but it started out innocently
    enough. I'll fill in some of the more basic stuff they did and what
    they results where. It was all dyno tested for actual numbers so what
    the feeling might be from the drivers seat is anybody's guess.
    
     The Jeep 360 test started witha totally stock engine with 8.25 to 1
    compression, 2bbl carb and peak HP of 175 at 3200 rpm. To establish the
    baseline for the tests a few changes we made. These were to install a
    low restriction air cleaner, change the electronic ignition module to
    the mopar chrome unit, advance timing to 37 degrees total advance,
    install low restriction mufflers with 2 1/2 inch head pipes to the
    stock exhaust manifolds, tinker with carburator jetting.
    
     These changes alone got the engine up to 220 HP and 324 pounds of
    torque. Not bad for a low compression 2bbl engine. Of course the
    article goes on, but then your talking about serious bucks with some
    internal modifications.
    
     So, if you can beg, borrow, or scrounge some things along these lines,
    you may be able to juice that cheesy little bow tie a bit. How much you
    will get is anybody's guess.
    
     Tony
    
    
     

    
    RE .145, .146
    
    Thanks for the constructive inputs.  My feeling was that there is
    more power lurking in this emissions era pig.  The car is really
    jetted lean, so richening it up some may help.  To help it flow
    better on the induction side I'll also kludge up a dual snorkle air 
    cleaner.
    
    The new cam added substantial power increases, perhaps there's 10-15
    more in richening up the mixture....
    
    Tom

Tom, you're almost definitely going to pick up a bit of power and driveability
by going a little (not a bunch) richer. The cat should be able to handle the
change, as well, since cats like the mixture a little on the rich side, and the
cam made the mixture leaner than stock.

Furthermore, since low speed cylinder pressures are down now (because of the
cam), you'd be wise to get a distributor weight and spring set (from Mr. Gasket,
Accel, etc), and mess with that a bit.

I'd start with a curve that gave full advance by, say, 2500 rpm, with a total
advance of 34-36 degrees, not counting vacuum advance. Play with just the
springs first. With the small cylinder bore and slightly hotter cam, you may be
able to get away with this on regular unleaded. If not, play with the curve
until you *can* run 34-36 degrees without ping - maybe all in by 3000 or so?

Your idea of opening up the intake path is a good one. You should think about
making cold air available to the engine as part of the deal, but don't defeat
the thermal valve on the air cleaner. Also look at the exhaust. If funds permit,
look at an inexpensive "turbo" muffler from any of a number of manufacturers,
and, if it were me, I'd be looking at a replacement cat, on the grounds that
it's an old car, and the cat is almost certainly not flowing as well as it was
when new. These new, low restriction replacement cats are pretty inexpensive, as
well. Keeping a single exhaust would be the hot tip, in my opinion, because when
more cylinders fire per pipe, the noise level is lower. You're likely to need
another slight richening of the mixture if you do this.

Holley used to make smog legal, bolt on replacement carbs that were a *bunch*
better than the stockers. I put one on a 250 stove bolt six in a '76 Nova, and,
magically, driveability, power and mileage all improved.

Note that all this can be done over time. Yours truly has been experimenting
with one or two things a year since 1985 on my old Bullet, and will be doing the
same on the Thing.

Get your bride to give you a stop watch for the holidays, so you can do some
measuring under more or less controlled conditions.

Bruce

    
    Thanks Bruce!  I knew that sooner or later you'd check in with
    some suggestions.
    
    Say, I have another question related to the manifold heat riser.
    The thermal switch that controls the application of maifold vacuum
    to the heat riser is broken.  The lines are currently plugged, so that
    the heat riser is getting no vacuum at all.  Just wondering how this
    setup is supposed to function.  As the motor heats up, the thermal
    switch applies/removes vacuum to the heat riser.  In the absence of
    a vacuum source will the heat riser stay open or closed?  I want to ensure
    I'm not driving around with a restricted exhaust.  If that's the
    case I'll bypass the thermal switch with a length of vacuum hose until
    time I get a replacement switch.
    
    I did a little testing, and saw that the riser is functional:
    
    Manifold Vacuum Applied:
        		     ____
      	       	    / 	    |    |   Riser linkage pulls In
          Exhaust  /________|    |
         Manifold /---------|    |     -----------> this direction
                 / Riser    |    |
                /  Linkage  ------
                            Riser Diaphragm
    
    
    No manifold vacuum:
    
    Riser linkage pushes "out" from riser diaphragm
    
    
    Which direction represents "closed" i.e. an obstructed exhaust
    manifold?
    
    Thanks in advance!
    
    Tom
    

    
    An interesting question occured to me this morning.
    Why is it cars feel so torquey first thing upon cold startup?
    On most of my vehicles, the first minute of morning driving seems
    to be when the vehicle runs best.
    
    A few of my own hypotheses:
    
    1. The oil is cold and thick, and the lifters don't bleed down 
       quickly, hence more lift at the valve (Rhodes lifter like)
    2. The intake manifold is cool, as is the carb, fuel pump, and gas in
       the fuel line.  Hence a denser intake charge.
    3. It's all in my mind....
    
    Thoughts?  
    
    Tom
    

    #2.
    
    Why do you think an "open" air filter, or ducted hood feeding outside air
    into the carb provides a power increase?
    
    Mike

    
    Yeah Mike, I know all that.  The power shot my 428CJ gets when
    the ram-air snaps open attests to the value of cold air.
    
    However, there's gotta be more to it.  Does my #1 hypothesis not
    hold water?
    
    Tom

    
    Well,
    
    Over the past few days, the SBC in the Malibu has begun acting up.
    Upon morning start-up the lifters clack pretty good, which a couple
    of weeks prior (even during *cold* weather) never occured.  Also, the
    motor is steadily loosing power.  I'll do a cursory diagnostic on these
    conditions, but I must think worst case scenario.  This motor could be
    unmitigated junk......
    
    Which gets me thinking.
    
    I may be interested in obtaining a 350 for this car -- which would ease
    my mind about the reliability of the current 267.  Given this is a
    beater/daily driver, i'm not looking for a full-boogie hipo motor. 
    Just a stock 350.  As low buck as humanly possible.  The way I see it,
    I'll swap over all the peripherals (intake, carb, distributor,
    manifolds, etc, etc. so all I'll need is to assemble a 350 long block.
    
    I've seen some very low prices out of PAW, Summit, etc, for unassembled
    350's, but I'm leery of their quality.  So, this leads to the question:
    
    How much would it cost to obtain a good 2 bolt main, 350 core, and
    rebuild it for passenger car use?  No balancing or fancy head work. 
    Just a driver.   For those curious as to why I'd bother, this car is my
    one and only driver, aqnd aside from these engine woes is very tight
    with a confirmed 40,000 on the clock.
    
    Anyone have a candidate motor in mind and some thoughts on what machine
    work is required and how much it'll cost?
    
    
    Thanks,
    
    Tom

Tom, they're a little pricey compared to a DIY job, but they're complete
engines, and, I believe they come with a warranty from the Chevrolet engine
plant.

I think they go for around $1100.00 or so, *complete*.

Anybody know for sure what the price is?

Bruce

    Ya, that's the target motor.  Carb to pan.  The cost is roughly $1250.
    You may be able to wheel and deal.
    
    Tom, didn't you just put the cam in that motor?  Didn't you just have
    to mess with the lifters?  HMMMMMMMMM......
    
    If, as you say, this car is a beater here's what I'd do...
    Look in the paper for cheapo cars, you know, Grandma's impala with the
    350 and 40K, rusted to junk.  Go check it out, drive it, if it's ok,
    buy it for $400.  When you get it home you have 2 options:
    
    a).  Pull the motor and stick it into your Chevelle.
    b).  Junk the chevelle and drive the impala (nova/chevelle/caprice).
    
    $400 either way... Your choice.
    
    Mike

    Tom,
    
     I don't know about in your area, but here in the Carolina's several
    autoparts stores sell remanufactured short or long blocks ( PEP Boys,
    AutoZone,...). I know you can get a long block 350 for $700 with a
    warranty. The reason for the suggestion is you will have much shorter
    downtime ( engine out/ engine in ) than running around getting the
    machine work done and picking up the missing parts, gaskets, ...
    Rebuilding would be a lot more fun and potentially a few $ cheaper.
     I'm looking at a long block 400 sb for my caprice and have
    been quoted $900.
    
     Chuck
    
     Chuck

Perhaps your rocker studs aren't adjustable.  If there isn't a lock-nut on 
the studs, they're designed to be cranked down until the nut bottoms on the 
shoulder at the base of the threads.

Your adjuster nuts may be backing off because they're designed to be 
bottomed out, not left part way up the stud.  i.e. they're not lock-nuts 
but just look like GM rocker lock-nuts.


Do they spin quite easily?  ...or do they screw on pretty hard?

    
    Hi Skip,
    
    The rocker nuts are the factory GM locknuts, which spin on to the
    stud with a suprisingly high level of resistance. I have them set
    at 1/2 turn of preload since the cam installation.
    
    I have not yet done any diagnostic on this condition, as I'm in 
    Maryland and the car is sitting in Logan central parking!
    However, I will pull off the valve covers and check for troubles.
    
    Tom

Maybe they need a bit more pre-load so that there's less slack to take up 
when the lifters bleed down overnight (only the ones under tension will 
bleed down, BTW) or maybe there's a stud coming out.

But you said they all made noise? That sorta rules out a stud pulling out.

Is the oil pump suspect?  What's the pressure?

The oil filter can't be draining, it sits upside down (or right side up if 
you look at it from a drainback attitude) so something's gotta be wrong 
elsewhere.

Is the oil too thick and not getting to the lifters right away when it's 
cold?  A worn oil pump won't help this condition.

    Tom, I think I just found an ad for the Targetmaster in the back of Hot
    Rod magazine. $1075 plus shipping.
    
    Assuming your engine really *is* on the way out, I'd worry about the
    ultimate cost and hassle of a 350 short block. Foe one thing, would the 
    heads on
    
    your engine be compatible with standard pistons on a 350, or would you
    have to go with dished pistons to keep a sane compression ratio?
    
    Another issue would be matching the carb and distributor settings with
    the new engine s cubic capacity.
    
    Bruce
    
    PS - Sorry for the typos, etc. This editor, combined with my home
    keyboard settings is a pain........

    As Bruce mentioned the head CC's will get you..The 305 has 58 CC heads,
    not sure of the smaller block, but it is a whole lot less than the
    350's..If you go with a complete 350 the other issue might be accessories, 
    that being, depending on the given year the heads might not be tapped 
    correctly.. 
    
    
    
    Jim

    
    Thanks guys,
    
    I will do some diagnostics on the motor when I get home (now in Dallas!)
    and report out on the findings.  If there's a big issue, I'll be buying
    a GM Targetmaster.  350 Longblock of course.... $1075 isn't too much
    for a factory fresh, warranted motor.
    
    Merry Christmas too all,
    
    Tom  

    Geesch Tom,
    You are "kinda" closer to Harry's.......why don't you just have him
    whip some umph into your engine.......  :-)
    
    
    TMW

    
    I actually was in Houston last night making a flight connection
    to Newark.  Now I'm in Parsippany, NJ.
    
    I'm also driving a rented Buick Skylark.  Ick!  What a piece
    of crap!  Is this really the same Buick that gave us the GS Stage 1,
    GSx, and gorgeous '63 Riviera?  Say it ain't so Joe......
    
    Tom (coming home tonight!!!!)
    
     

    Gee Tom, ya shoulda called. I'm sure we could have squeezed in a couple
    of drinks between flights! :-)
    
    Harry
    

    Harry,
    
    Sorry my friend, but the layover in Houston was short.  By the time 
    you drove from Missouri City to Intercontinental I would have been
    gone.  Believe me I thought about it though!
    
    Then again Harry, I know how you drive!
    
    Tom

    
    Well, I finally got around to fixing the Malibu.  The ticking sound was
    a combination of a bad pushrod and too little lifter preload on several
    valves.
    
    All is well again,
    
    Tom

    
    Hi All, it's me again.
    
    A question about GM adjustable rockers:  Mine do not seem to "hold"
    an adjustment for very long.  Adjusting the preload quiets them down
    for a few hundred miles at which point they begin making noise.
    Could the adjuster lock nuts be "worn" out?  Could the rockers,
    sockets,  or balls be worn out?  Summit sells a set of 16 1.5" long
    slot rockers for $49, inclusive of locknuts and balls (slotted for better
    oiling) 
    
    I'd probably spring for a new set of pushrods ($22) to ensure
    everything mated up happily....
    
    Would this be a good idea?  can these parts wear out to the point of
    preventing a stable valve adjustment?
    
    Tom
    
    For $49, the price is nominal, and the task is easy.

I was of the impression that all new small block engines, especially the 
baby small blocks, depended on the nut bottoming on the base of the studs 
and wasn't a "lock-nut" any more.  i.e. they're not adjustable rockers at 
all, just torque the nuts down.

I think the threads might be metric as well.

If you can easily turn them down with a stubby ratchet, they're either 
non-locking nuts or they're really worn out lock-nuts.

If the threads are SAE, try replacing all the nuts with honest-to-goodness 
lock nuts.

    The nuts on the '87 'vette heads on the ThunderTruck(tm) engine have
    lock nuts and are adjustable. I'm running the Comp Cams 1.6:1 roller
    tip rockers on it. I'm pretty sure that they came with new lock nuts
    (and the stock ones were also lock nuts).
    
    Tom, either the lock nuts aren't holding, the studs are pulling out of
    the heads, or the cam is wiping itself out. For your sake, I hope it's
    the first!
    
    Harry
    

    
        Skip is right.....sort of. The generation III small blocks that are
    in the new Vettes and cambirds do use a "net lash" adjustment. Read,
    non-adjustable. This is also true of the Big-blocks starting with the 
    1991 model year when they were completly re-designed.
    
    -john

I pulled this engine number from a small block chevy v8 last night to see if 
I could identify what the motor was, before I try to do anything to it, and
the number (to the best of my visual skills) appears to be:  TI2I7HC

I went through all the books I've accumulated, and I'm speculating that
the 'T' indicates that it was manufactured in Tonawanda. I believe the 
'HC' will tell the tale on cu. in. and what the block was originally built 
to be, and the characters in the middle tie to a date code. 

Any help figuring this out would be appreciated. 

Thanks,

Jack

Was this number stamped on the block in front of the passenger side cylinder
head?  Or was this a number cast elsewhere into the block?
Matt

>>Was this number stamped on the block in front of the passenger side cylinder
>>head?  Or was this a number cast elsewhere into the block?

This was the number stamped into the the block on a front pad just forward of 
the passenger side head. (near the water pump)


Jack

    I have an opportunity to buy a 350 Chev out of a 1977 Chevy Blazer for
    a reasonable price.  Is there a chance that this is a four bolt main
    engine and how can I determine this without pulling the oil pan?
    Thanks, Wayne

    All kinds of questions going on here!!
    
    I'm wondering if anyone out there knows if all '70 (approx) up blocks
    have both the "offset" and the "straight across" bolt holes tapped for
    the starter motors?
    
    I've got heat and clearance problems on my '62 starter.  The block is a
    '74 or so 350", and has the offset bolt (staggered?) mounting bolts. 
    It's a real hassle to get the starter out because of the headers
    (disconnect the exhaust, unbolt the headers, take off the fan, lift the
    motor, etc. etc.).
    
    I want to replace the low torque (or so I imagine) starter with one of
    those mini gear reduction hi-torque units.  This will give me more
    clearance, and allow the engine to restart on those summer days when
    the block temp gets over 200+ deg. for an extended period of time.
    
    All these mini starters have the mounting bolts straight across from
    one another (parallel to the flywheel).  Someone told me that ALL sm.
    blocks have both bolt holes present and tapped.
    
    	Anyone know for sure???
    
    			Thanks,
    
    				Steve

I think that the information on the bolt holes is correct.  The holes are there
and are tapped.  

The mini-starter should work great!  I have one on my Vega and it works perfect.
No matter how hot the engine gets, the starter never fails to spin the motor
right over.  I can even pull the starter off now without removing the engine
from the car.  :-)

Mark

    re .176
    
    If the block casting number ends with 70010 then the chances are pretty
    good that it's a four bolt main block.
    
    Peter

    To assist .176,
    
    I've always wondered myself.  Is the block casting number on the
    bell housing of the engine, or is it the tiny number stamped on the
    block just in front of the head?
    
    I never bothered to confirm which was which.
    
    Mike

    
        The casting number at the back tells info like: 4 bolt main
                                                        thin wall casting
                                                        casting material
                                                        tall vs short deck.
    The "stamped" number on the passenger side front tells what car it is
    installed in the range or years, performance equipment, manual or
    automatic trans, this stuff is ALL EXPLAINED in the chevrolet high
    performance parts book....Ist part #18 at the chevy dealer.
    
    -john

    One more question about Chevy 350's.  What's this I hear about certain
    year 4 bolt Chevy's being "high tin" content and how do you determine
    it?  This engine has "010" in the number by the bellhousing so we think
    it's a four bolt main.  Someone else said that it also meant it's one
    of the engines with a high tin content and is stronger than others.
    Thanks, Wayne

    
      I don't think a block with a high tin content would be all that
    desireable, but if it has a high nickle content it would definitely be
    a keeper...  Sorry, I don't know how to determine which is which.  I've 
    heard that marine engines are built with the high nickle content blocks.
    
    FWIW,  
    
    Tom
    

I'm in the process of going through a '63 Split Window Coupe I bought in 
December to make it reliable, and perform as well as it can on the road, 
given the things that were built into it by the previous owner.

What I know about it so far:

	'67 327 block, bored .060" over, domes turned off the pistons, 
	rebuilt to 10.5:1, balanced, crank turned .010", cam spec not 
	know yet, but presumed to be stock (similar to?) '63 Corvette 
	300 hp non-fuelie hydraulic, 3991492 (casting #) heads machined 
	for screw in studs, roller rocker arms, pushrod guides, stock '63 
	air cleaner, Carter AFB, tach drive distributor, hi volume oil 
	pump, non-stock aluminum intake, stock exhaust manifolds, 
	believed to be correct 2-1/2" -> 2" exhaust system, Accel wires
	with looms, and stock ignition shielding removed. 

It has been stored all winter and started/warmed to operating temperature 
periodically. Performance since I bought it and put on maybe 75 miles has 
been much less than expected. When I pulled a couple of plugs, I found them 
black, (not surprising given the storage) and when I crossed the Autolite 303 
number - I found that they were on the far end of the cold heat range (RJ6 
equivalent with no protruding electrode). Spec for early 60's vettes was RJ18Y 
which is MUCH hotter with a 3/8" protruding electrode. This weekend I will 
check, but I expect to find the timing significantly retarded as well. 
	
I plan to check plug/piston clearance this weekend with clay on the end of 
a non-protruding plug before I screw in 3/8" protruding plugs. If the 
clearance looks ok - I then need to choose a heat range. My preference 
would be to try to tune this for Sunoco Ultra 94 to be able to drive on 
pump gas. If that isn't feasible given 10.5:1, I'd be interested in 
recommendations on an additive. Fallback to that might have to be to buy 
a drum of 'real' fuel for the garage, to be able to set this up to the original 
specs and let it run like it's supposed to.

Any thoughts on:

	1) Plug recommendations
	2) Additives to Sunoco 94 to be able to run pump fuel
	3) Shelf life of high octane fuel in a drum 
	4) Fuel (in drum) recommendation, given compression ratio

	
Thanks,

Jack

I am running 10.5:1 in my 327 too.  I am also running 42 to 44 degrees of total
timing which necesitates the use of good gas.  You may be able to get by on the
94 octane if you back the timing down quite a bit.  When we dynoed my engine, it
started detonating using premium unleaded once we got to 38 degrees oth total
timing.  This at 6000 ft elevation so sealevel will be worst.

For plugs, I run the Autolite equivalent of an AC45, a non resistor plug.

For gas, I rin Philips 66 race gas.  It is 108 octane (R/2).  It is available
locally for $2.95.  You may be able to mix it 50% with that 94 octane gas to get
what you need.  You may also *need* the lead (or a substitute) if you have
non-hardened valve seats.

Mark

    To check your cam you should be able to map it out using a degree
    wheel.  I know my pop was into that sort of thing (tiny details) and
    graphed out the lift and such.  I bought the cam new so I already
    had the advertised specs for it.
    
    Mike

    
    My '67 SS 396 Camaro runs 10.25 : 1 and is use 92 octane pump gas for
    everyday use. If I plan on using the secondaries :) I will add a few
    gallons of 100 LL AVGAS available at your local airport for about
    $2.00/gallon. This is the same fuel that I run in my race car with 13:1
    compression.
    
    Don

What is the correct order when setting valve lash (mechanical) or lifter preload
(hydraulic) on a small block Chevy engine?  It's been some time since I did one
and I want to do it correct the first time.  

I will be doing an engine with a hydraulic cam in it and I know that I take up
all the slack by rolling the pushrod between my fingers until I just begin to
feel some resistance while tightning the adjusting nut.  Then crank it down an
additional 1/4 to 3/4 turn (acording to personal preference).

My question is waht order to do them in.  I have heard:

 - TDC on #1, adjust I,E on #1.  Then just follow the firing order until done.

 - TDC on #1, adjust #4E, #8E, #2I, #7I, rotate crank 180 deg adjust #3E, #6E,  
   #1I, #8I, rotate crank 180 deg adjust #5E, #7E, #3I, #4I, rotate crank 180   
   deg adjust #1E, #2E, #5I, #6I.

 - TDC on #1, adjust #2I, #8E, rotate crank 90 deg adjust #1I, #4E...and so on.

Which one is correct or are they all correct and yield the same results?

I know that its a brain-dead question, but I just can't remember for sure.  :-)

Mark, the last time I did this, I found TDC (compression stroke) on number one,
adjusted those two valves, then rotated a quarter turn of the crank at a time
for 8-4-3-6-5-7-2. I put a dab of white paint on the crank pulley at each of the
90 degree points for easy alignment with the timing marks.

In the chassis manual for my '85, they had a procedure for adjusting all the
valves with only two crank alignments, but I confess that I always tend to get a
little muddled right in the middle of things when I try to identify intakes and
exhausts on small-blocks. That siamesed center set gets away from me every time.

Don't tell anyone, OK? :-)

On the other hand, the firing order has never caused me even a moment's
confusion.

Go figure.

Bruce

With hydraulic lifters, any one of the approaches will suffice.

Once the engine is warmed up and idling, reset each one while the engine is 
running to get them spot on.  Clacking, back of a bit more, tighten slowly 
till clack stops, go 1/4 turn more.  Move to next stud and repeat.  When 
you've done a side, go down the row and add a quarter turn.  If you want 
'em tighter, go down the row again adding another quarter turn.  Go a 
quarter turn at a time and you won't stall the engine.


I adjust mine by simply rolling the crank by hand and watching the P & G 
valve gapper needle  :-)

I adjust the solid tappets in my '48 and my motorcycle by rotating the 
crank until the intake closes and adjust the exhaust on the same cylinder.  
Then when the exhaust is opening, I adjust the intake.

Thanks Bruce and Skip.  I don't do it often enough to remember the proper
procedure.  I'll write it down this time.

Hopefully I will be taling the car for a quick spin around the block this
evening to see what the supercharger installation has done to/for my engine.

Mark

Hey motorheads,

I think this is probably the best place to ask this question.

When I had my Chevy 350 built, I had the reciprocating mass balanced, and that
includes the flywheel, but not the clutch.  It is a stock 168 tooth flywheel.
Can I use a different 11" flywheel?  Will that cause engine problems?

The reason for this, is what I am calling the clutch job from hell.
It started off great, in about three hours I removed the shifter, driveshaft,
crossmember, muncie, bellhousing, pressure plate, disk, and flywheel.

I got the flywheel surfaced in five minutes at Auto Machine in Maynard.

It went downhill from there.  Putting the parts back together, I ran into 
trouble when putting the tranny in place.  The cause was that the disk was
not properly centered.  I wish I noted the warp to the cheap plastic alignment
tool I was using.  OK, I take care of that problem and center it.  On the 
retorquing of the pressure plate bolts, the last one snaps.

Taking the flywheel off, and using a drill press and spending a fair amount
of time securing the flywheel, I end up breaking off a drill bit and an ez out
in the bolt.  Auto Machine says that they are unable to remove the bolt.  They
have recommended another shop for that work now.  I'll follow up on that at
lunch.
Matt

>I got the flywheel surfaced in five minutes at Auto Machine in Maynard.

It'll have to be re-balanced if it's been re-suraced.

If you put on a different flywheel, take it to the shop that initially 
balanced your engine and they'll have records of how the flywheel was 
balanced  i.e. neutral or counterbalanced to compensate for crank imbalance
.

the only small block flywheels that are counter balanced are those used on 
engines with the one-piece rear main seal (because the meat's missing from 
the crank that would normally be used as a counterweight)

    Re -.1

    	And/or 400 SB Chevy. They require a 400 SB flywheel and harmonic
    balancer because this combo is "externally balanced"

Auto Machine sent me to Advance Machine of Stow, who sent me to Assabet Machine
of Hudson.  They got the bolt and ez-out fragments out easily with EDM equip-
ment.

I'd never heard of that before.  It is Electrical Discharge Machining.  With it,
they separated the core of the bolt from the threads, and got the thing taken
out.  It set me back $50.

The flywheel is for a 1970 350 engine.  It isn't counterbalanced like the ones
for the 400 Chevy small block, but had some areas where a 1/2" drill bit went
in about 3/8" to balance it.

That's at least how it was explained to me when I had Performance City of
Natick send it to Reid's Machine Shop about 9 years ago.

Matt

    	FYI an EDM is basically controlled "weld" burning. What they do is
    a precision burn of the area needed to be drilled (machined). Oil is
    passed through the electrode (cutter) and act as an insulator. It is
    pretty neat to watch.

    	CB

    
    
    Rob > Comet::Bussard
    CXO1-2
    DTN 522-2144
    
    Hey,
    
    What's the sccop on original engine paints for the '64 SS SBC.  I'm
    almost ready to put in the new Offy dual-port,  but the thing is 
    painted blue,  and there is no references to engine paints in any 
    of the three  hint/help books I have.  ( I studied like a good boy
    prior to taking on this rebuild,  having never done a SB 'afore )
    
    One of the books has the intake painted blue, (cover phot,  no text )  
    but I believe the block,  heads,  intake,  pan,  and  all covers were  
    originally painted the Chevy orange.   I've put a lot of work into 
    pumping up the low-mid torque whilst trying to maintain a stock
    appearance.  Includes .040 over,  hardened valves/seats w/the machine
    work,  slightly hotter than RV cam,  650 Carter AFB,  and the dual-port
    offy intake,  which I got for a song. (too bad I forgot my Mr. 
    Microphone... %^} )  Duals with a balance tube to finish it out with.
    No headers tho',  so I can retain the stock image.  What the hey,
    I even highly detailed the engine compartment to the low-gloss original
    black too.
    
    Also,  if anyone in the Co.  Springs area has suggestions on the exh.
    manifold coatings,  give me ideas/suggestions.  Powder coating seems
    awful expensive,  but I want to go that route if I find a place that'll
    be cheaper than the $65-75 I found so far.. (for both)  If someone
    has ideas/suggestions/experiences  on a really good high temp cast iron 
    looking paint,  I'll go that route.
    
    Thanks!
    
    Rob
    

    Rob, Eastwood has some nice looking cast iron paint. I don't know how
    well it holds up though.
    
    Harry
    

    
    
     I've used the Cast Blast on my exhaust system and manifolds....works
    great....it has held up for the 3rd year now....has not flaked or
    anything....some spots at the moment on the exhaust pipe are showing
    signs of needy touch up...The exhaust manifolds are fine.
    
     /Bob
    
     P.S.  I got the stuff in a pint can...$19.95 per can I think....2 day
       delivery.
    
    

    
    
    Thanks for the hints, re .1  &  .2,  where did you get the Eastwood and
    Cast Blast?  The 2nd reply for Cast Blast says two day delivery,  from 
    where?
    
    Rob

    
    
      RE -1
    
    
      Eastwood is located in Penn.  I live in SouthBridge, MA....I recieved
    my order in 2 days.  I ordered by phone using my VISA GOLD.
    
       /Bob

    Eastwood advertises in all the car mags...
    
    Harry
    

    To order from Eastwood call 800-345-1178. 
    
    Chris

    
    
    Thanks for all the replies!!
    
    I've called Eastwood,  ordered only a catalog 'cause they've no 
    cast iron colors,  only "stainless steel grey"  and  flat black.  
    So....,  I'll  go the search and destroy route @ the magazines, 
    collect phone  #'s,  etc.
    
    But,  don't let that stop you from replying with any other info....
    
    Update on the intake was I stripped/primered/painted it Chevy orange
    as I thought it should be.....,  and am almost done with the
    rebuild.
    
    Thanks!
    
    Rob

    Can anyone give me info on getting a bit more HP out of my 72 Vette.
    Its got a California smog'd L-48 which is stock. What bolt on
    components can I change on this lump to get more than the book 210HP.
    Is increasing the compression ratio from 8.5:1 the first thing to
    change, or can I do an induction/camshaft/headers change and get
    results.
    I sure hope someone reads this quick, Digital here, north London
    England is closing in a couple of days, and I'll no longer be able to
    talk to you guys.
    Later................................Col.

Hi,
I have a 76 that began life as a smog L48 350. Here is a list of what I did
and what it gained... All gains were verrified by 1/4 mile runs at the drag
strip in Pueblo Colorado, altitude 4500 feet above sea level.
Added hooker headers spliced into the stock exhaust. ~4 tenths
Better duel exhaust ,no cats ~2 tenths
Holly 750 and Edelbrock performer manifold ~4 tenths
K/N air filter Hard to tell if gains were that day or the filter.
Tuning the Holly over the course of a year playing with jets and springs. ~3
tenths.
Swapped the 350 for a decently built 400 ~1 second !!!
swapped 308 rear end for 356 rear end. NO CHANGE !!!

	Basicly I started with a car that would run low 17's and got it down
to 15.7's with the 350 and down to 14.7's with the 400...
Gas milage went from ~15 down to about 8 in the process, but the "fun per
gallon went up tremendously !!! The car is now retired from racing and back
to stock, other than the 356 gears...

					Brian...

    There are 2 schools of thought on this issue, and you live in
    England so I don't know what the rules are on screwing around with
    automobiles are.  I'll tell you what I did on my 1980 Z/28 which I
    bought stock with an LM-1 smogger 350 in it back in 1985.
    
    First thing I did was removed all the smog equipment, because I
    couldn't modify it easily since everything was related to every other
    system.  On your '72, you probably have an air pump and a PCV valve
    and that's about it.  No computer controlled stuff, so you may have an
    easier time.
    
    To get the most power out of the engine, you need to take it apart and
    put it back together with good stuff (better/improved heads, higher
    compression pistons/cam).  Or, you can start bolting some stuff on.
    Chances are, your all done bolting stuff on.  You've got a 4 barrel
    on it and some headers.  You may pick up a couple horsepower with
    a different manifold, but in reality most of this stuff is tuned to
    work together, for example, the manifold on your car now compliments
    the cam.  Goofing around without looking at the whole package may
    actually slow you down.  Your best bet then is simple to moderate 
    performance tuning, and optimizing your exhaust system.  
    
    If you want more power, and you want to go about it in an economical
    and efficient/calculated way....
    
    Pull the engine.  Raise the compression to 10.0:1, buy a matched
    manifold/cam combination for what you want to do, put in improved 
    parts when you put it back together (good lifters, push rods, timing
    chain, etc...).  The carb you have if you want to retain it will
    dictate what style (how radical/conservative) of an induction system
    you can purchase.  Port the heads and give them a 3 angle valve job
    prior to reinstalling them.  This way you'll wind up with an overall
    package which meets your specific needs.
    
    Bottom line:  Don't expect much performance gain by bolting stuff on.
    You'll probably get more of a kick in the pants by tuning the current
    combo.  To see any type of a kick in the ass, you need to rebuilt the
    engine with the proper components.
    
    After blowing up 4 small blocks, the final being a 450 HP LT-1,  I, and
    my empty pockets went the "Bigger is Better" route, and stuffed a
    moderately radical (?!!!) 454 into my car.  Now I worry about lossing
    transmissions and axles.  and my roof, literally. 
    
    Regards,
    MadMike

    To clarify .208, since I had a 1980 smogger, I removed the smog
    equipment and replace it with cheap headers, a Edelbrok Performer
    manifold and a cheap cam.  I had to remove the smog stuff to (easily)
    install the above components.  I also installed a Holley on it.
    I low bucked it, which was a major mistake.
    
    Since you have a '72, most of the stuff I had to deal with isn't
    on your car.  Plus you mention it already has headers and it probably
    has a holley carb on it.  Even if it has a Q-jet, those carbs are
    very good performance units so don't be quick to junk it like I did.
    
    Also keep in mind, as I moved up the scale of performance I had to
    change other areas of the car.  I had to install an electric fuel
    pump, and then a improved ignition system (MSD) to spark the whole
    mess up to 8500rpm, a 3500 stall converter, 4.11 rear end gear......
    
    MadMike

    Hi everyone,
    	My name is Cal and I would like some sugestions for my 84
    Monte CL it currently have a 305 4BBL in it but would like to see
    some more power The problem is not a lot of money to spend on massive
    motor jobs so this has to stay relatively low buck I'm thinking 
    1000 or less I live in Maine and the state hasnt decided yet weather 
    or not if its going to have emissions tests or not so I have that 
    kinda holding me up on what to do  Any suggestions or tips are 
    welcome Thanks in advance.
    				
    			     Later,
    				Cal.
    
    p.s. please excuse the spelling errors

    I'd spend the $1000 on a 350 and trash the 305.  Look in some of the
    want advertisers...I've seen some deals for less than that.
    
    You should be able to keep it smog legal as well.
    
    If you chose to modify the 305...
    
    1. Change the exhaust system to an after market free flow system.
    2. Get an aftermarket intake such as Edelbrocks Performer RPM.
    2a. MAYBE change carb....only if what you have is no good.
        Edelbrock makes a nice carb to got with the manifold.
    3. Upgrade the ignition system with something like an Accel coil, heavy
    plug wires (8 or 8.5mm) and probably put a set of lighter
    springs/weights in the distributor.
    
    That will get you started.
    
    Do not spend dime one on chrome/looks good/makes it heavier stuff!
    
    /tb/
    

    Can anyone tell me what year/style (truck?) four bolt main small block
    this is:  Stamped on right front pad:  K10 O3CNR
              Cast on left rear top of bell housing flange: 3970010
              Dip stick hole is on the left side, front and rear
              intake gasket surfaces have the gasket alignment holes.
    
    
    Thanks,
    
    John

	If I am remembering correctly, you should be able to look at the
	right rear top of bell housing flange and find the block casting 
	date. Based on that, you will know the probable model year. 

	There aren't too many sources that publish information that will 
	decode the 'CNR' from the front pad if the ehgine was used in a 
	truck application, but if you take the year and 'CNR' to a Chevy
	dealer they can look it up for you.

	I did that with the 3970010 motor that I rebuilt for my Suburban.
	Mine was a 1972 HD truck 350 cu in block originally sold on a 
	chassis to RV manufacturers.