Conference terri::cars_uk

re< Note 1120.0 by CHEST::BURRELL "Live long/prosper-live short/enjoy" >

>	Wonder if we can get one on the Lease scheme, and given the length
>	of time you have to wait for a bog-standard Cavalier - I wonder how
>	long it would take to get a Calibre.

    Don't go for a bog-standard Cavalier. I got my SRi less than three 
    weeks after ordering it.
    
    Andy

    
    Quote from Vauxhall salesman this lunchtime
    
    "Delivery on 8 Valve version less than 6 weeks, 16 valve slightly
    longer. If you want either in red, they gave all those to the dealers as
    demos and there ain't any left so, I don't know"
    
    I have just asked for lease scheme quotes on 8 valve and 16 valve.
    
    I await the lease companies quoted delivery time!
    
    Geoff
    Who_is_p****d_off_waiting_8_months_for_a_Ford

    Interesting - re .2;
    
    I was told by a Vauxhall garage in Cambridge last week that they
    were on "allocation" to garages until at least the end of year,
    and that there wouldn't be any discounts to anyone, and he reckoned
    the lease companies wouldn't get many for some time to come.

    According to Autocar & Motor  they reckoned that the Calibra was good-
    but not that good.
    
    They suggested that it was a GSi cavalier in sporty clothing
    they said it was nippy, nice engine but shame about the handling
    
    they were comparing it to other sports coupe's  such as the Nissan
    200SX which in their opinion had far superior handling.	
    
    They said it was a comfortable 4 adult car   more than a 2 + 2.
    
    the article then reminisced about the Capri which wasn't the class
    leader in terms of performance and handling but still sold well; and
    with a good image and astute marketing they saw no reason why the
    Calibra shouldnt sell well.
    
    Huw. 

    Bought What Car? today.
    
    Comparative between Calibra, sx200, volvo 480 and some others.
    
    Haven't read the article yet, but Calibra came second to Nissan.
    
    Steve

 	This months CAR magazine has a failrly lengthy article on the Calibra.
	Lots of photographs and some initial impression after a couple of
	hundred miles driving. They seemed quite enthusiastic about the car,
	the styling of which they were very enthusiastic. 

	It does seem to be a Calivier dressed up, albeit quite nicley, as a
	sports coupe, but the 16v version seems reasonably priced and should
	sell well.

	There is also a couple of pages on how the design was formulated and
	for people who are seriously thinkink of getting one it's worth buying
	of borrowing a copy of CAR.
	

	Gordon


	As a 200SX owner I'm quite happy about all the comparisons to date :-)

    I've been thinking of this one as my next car, so all info. would
    be useful.
    
    ( I was originally set on the MR2, but I read a really awful review
      criticising the handling characteristics of the new ones, and
      the Celica and Supra and � 19 and 23 K are too expensive for
      something that's just a car. )
    
    -Shantanu

    I read the review (see earlier note), but apparently other magazines
    apart from CAR have liked the MR2. In fact one of them said they
    got as lateral g-force of about .9g when cornering (supposedly very
    good).
    
    Tony
    

    Lots of quoates today on VTX.
    
    16V about 2100 to a supplement holder
    8V about 1400 to a supplement
    
    Rich
    

>      the Celica and Supra and � 19 and 23 K are too expensive for
   
    	Shantanu, which Celica are you quoting here !!!! ??? They, except for
        4WD Turbo, are a lot cheaper then that .


	Gordon

    The 1990 Celica starts at about �19K on the road.
    
    Tony

    Gordon,
    
    I'll have to grab a motoring magazine from a collegue to get the
    quoted figures. Is Tony's assurance enough ? The thing is I really
    like the car ( and the Supra ); admire it often at the local Toyota
    garage just by Decpark, but paying that much for a car seems 'wrong'.
    Maybe I'll persuade myself that inflation means I should uprate
    what the "fair" price for a car is.
             
    Sorry, mod, all this is totally off the subject.
    
    -Shantanu

	Shantanu,

	I have'nt got the magazine with me, but, the CAR magazine did a 
	comparison page between the Calibra and its rivals. The Celica 2.0 GT
	was one of them and I'm sure it was around 17K. The 200SX is only 
	18.5K, so 19K for the non-turbo Celica sounds a bit much.

	Mind you I haven't bought a car in the U.K for over years so perhaps
	the "on the road" price (delivery, plates etc.) may push this up
	to 19K, its still sounds too high though.

	Gordon

	FWIW I had a Celica 2.0 GT (previous model) until the end of last year 
	and liked it a lot.

    Terribly sorry chaps, Ive just looked at the Toyota proce list.
    
    Celica GT		17300.89p
    Celica GT 4		22380.15p
    
    Supra		20470.20p
    Supra Turbo		23526.32p
    
    On the road is about �416 extra.
    
    Wish Id engage eyes before typing :-)
    
    Tony

.14�    Celica GT		17300.89p

    and the Calibra (which I think is what this note was originally
    about!!??) is 17250 on the road. Seems remarkably similar pricing!!
    
    But on the quotes, the Celica is 2300 to 3200, while the Calibra
    is 2136. (MR2 is 2300 to 2900).

    
    Where the Calibra appears to be oddly priced (on the quote scheme)
    is in comparison with the Cavaliers.
    
    		8v Calibra	16v		CD Cavalier	16v GSi
    On road	  14.7k		17.2k		  14.7k		  16.7k
    Quote	  1456		2136		  1145		  1554
    
    Maybe it is something to do with the delivery (Calibra in 8 weeks,
    Cavalier in 4 months) or the limited number, and so no discounts
    available??

    And me. I've just checked the May '90 edition of What Car, and the
    prices quoted in .14 are pretty much right..
    
    Mmm, now my choices expand.
    
    -Shantanu

Re: .15

The price differences could be due to lack of discounts, but the following
could also be factors:

	higher cost of maintenance
	higher depreciation
	lease company profits getting thin

jb

    seen in the Sunday Times:
    
    Article about very fast (150mph+) cars (Ferrari's mainly) and how
    these sort of speeds used to be only for this type of car..it then went
    on to mention how the emergence of the "hot hatch" (130ish mph)
    has brought fast cars into the reach of the "average Joe Bloke"....
    it then went on to talk about the new Vauxhall Cavalier..powered
    by Lotus..!!..which attains speeds of 170mph+....and how "Joe Bloke"
    can now drive a very very fast car without spending the sort of
    dosh reserved for Ferrari's etc etc...
    The car itself looked mighty mean...lots of spoilers and skirts
    etc etc...but not TOO over the top...and got a fair write-up 
    regarding handling etc etc...
    wonder when these will start appearing in DEC car parks..!!
    (can't remember how much they cost..sorry..)
    The article also mentioned that (I think it was Wiltshire) police
    have got a bit "miffed" with the Vauxhall sales dept because they
    have just purchased the super fast Senator that does 150mph...and
    now the Lotus Cavalier will be leaving it in the dust..!!
    now...where did I put my cheque book....???
    
    Paul
    

I'd heard about the Lotus Carlton with that kind of performance, and that was
going to cost in the region of �40k ... so not necessarily within the reach of
Joe Average still!!

    
    I've read similar stories in last sunday's newspaper. I saw the
    Lotus Carlton at Motor Show (Olympia) 2 years ago. Basically 170
    mph is indeed accurate and priced I believe at 50K+ !!!
    
    The Car is simply amazing !
    
    For the police to complain about the speed is daft. Okay, 170
    mph is fast, but with a car developed to handle this kind of
    performance is far different than that of a hot-hatch with 
    mega-chip conversion etc. (which could be viewed as within
    reach of many) is more of a hazard. 
    
    Unless I mistaken, 50K+ is still out of reach of Joe Average.
    
    Just my opinion...                                   
    
    Later.
    
    -fv
                  

Love to meet this Joe Average. :-)

    
    Someone with a relative within GM told me that the Lotus Carlton COULD
    be on the market for under �20k, but GM thought they'd have trouble
    shifting them at that price.
    
    Will anyone REALLY pay �40k for a Vauxhall even if it does have Lotus 
    in the name? After all a 4x4 Cosworth is only in the mid-20ks with more
    than enought performance for the road.
    
    Mark

    re the topic subject, anyone actually driven one of these 'ere
    calibri's ? 
    
    I was suprised to see MAVIS had a load of them at Heathrow when
    I was there in July. Unfortunately they may not "have had a category
    'A' sir" but DEC clout was not enough to get a play in one of the
    Kaliber's 
    
    AMS
    

    My Red 8 Valve Calibra arrives next week (Nov 2nd). It's costing me 1395 on
    the scheme as a supplement holder. I ordered it on Aug 22nd so thats
    just over 2 months to get it which isn't bad. Current quotes are
    showing deliveries in Feb/Mar '91 and fleet won't place the orders 'cos
    the lead time is too long. Once I've had it a week or two I'll write up
    a review. I HOPE I'm going to like it.
    
    Richard Bell

    I ordered my Calibra on June 26th. "Suggested delivery" was 4th
    October.
    My friend (I no longer talk to him!!) ordered his on the same day. His
    delivery was also suggested 4th October.
    
    The two cars are planned for delivery on the same day, from the same
    garage. Andrew got his red one on October 5th. My silver one isn't due
    till "Possibly the first week of November".
    
    Suggestion - order a red one!!
    

    Well the car arrived dead on time on Friday Nov 2nd. Verdict ? I am
    well pleased, lots of envious glances from people, source of great
    interest by the other dads at the football club etc. It's fast enough
    for me, compared to the Carlton I had before it is much more responsive
    to the throttle, gear change is very nice and slick and it feels like a
    sports coupe with the smaller steering wheel and laid-back driving
    position.
    
    Haven't done any long distance driving yet to judge regarding fatique,
    the Carlton was effortless in that respect, but overall I am a happy
    driver.
    
    Richard Bell

    
    I've been trying to find a dealer with an 8 valve demonstrator, but
    have had no luck at all. 
    
    As you may know, I'm a contractor, so I don't quite know what DEC's
    insurance situation is, but is there anyone in DEC Park (or the
    surrounding sites) who's got an 8 valve they'd be prepared to let me
    try, just around the block?
    
    Mark
    
    

Anyone can drive a leasemobil


Jc

    There are a couple in Hampshire House, Bsingstoke...
    
    Try me or Andrew Norton... but we are "customer facing", so you may
    have to find a time when we are available.... E.g. I am out in 10
    minutes for the next 3 days.
    
    Cheers, Chris

Phoned Vauxhall/GM distribution centre at MK - 0908 691777

Said "I can't get any of your dealers to give me a test drive on a Calibra 16V"

Reply "Sorry about that Sir, we'll E-mail those dealers in your area who our
 computer says should have one and ask them to call you - could I have your
 Phone number and location"

I had two calls from not-too-distant dealers within the hour, offering test
drives.

I have had occasion to phone GM customer relations before (trying to get a 
F/I module when there were non available for 6 weeks - they found one in 2
hours and biked it to the garage). It was their suggestion to call MK, and
they gave me the number - service eh! (it's 0582 21122 BTW)

Dave
    

    
    I picked up a copy of the American Road & Track magazine at lunchtime
    in the Reading reference library (ah, That's Smiths to you and me).
    
    They had a test on the Opel Calibra 16 valve. Apparently they'd flown to
    Munich to test one at the Hockenheim circuit. They commented on the
    fact that they hadn't driven an Opel since testing a Monza a number of 
    years before.
    
    Anyway, the point is the performance figures which R&T got (0-60 7.6s) were
    much better than GM claim (8.5) or Autocar & Motor achieved (8.1). Are
    R&T tests reknowned for being unreliable or do 16 valve Calibras really 
    vary that much? 
    
    They were very enthusiastic about the car's looks and dynamic qualities
    (unlike some of the British press).
    
    Does the 16 valve engine really improve after a few thousand miles
    perhaps?
    
    Mark

    My engine felt smooth and free revving from new, though I kept to about
    4,000rpm for the first thousand miles or so.  I'd say it pulls better
    now in third and fourth, but I'd expect that after 10,000 miles.  
    
    I'm not surprised at the variations in acceleration times. I remember
    reading somewhere (in this conference perhaps) that Porsche engines
    (that are, I assume, built to high standards, may vary up to 10% in
    power output for apparently identical units.
    
    John
    
    
    PS  There is a Vauxhall dealer called Courtenays (in East Anglia
    somewhere) who offer a 16V turbocharged 4wd Calibra with a handling
    kit, for about �24k.  Quicker than a standard Cossie and better looking
    too.  Courtenays occasionally advertise in What Car ?

    Road & Track are notorious for getting the ``best'' 0-60 times. I've
    never seen them beaten yet !
    
    They roadtested the old 911 turbo a few years back and got 0-60 of 4.1
    seconds !!! (Porsche quote 5.5'ish)
    
    As for Porsche variance, 911s tend to be within a few %, but I have
    heard of 10% on old 2.5 litre 944s.

    
    Re The Courtenay Calibra.
    
    I dread to think what insurance would be like on such a machine, the
    standard FWD 16 valve model is a high premium machine, so slapping all 
    these goodies on would push it ski high. Still, it would make
    interesting transport! :^)
    
    Courtenays have made quite a reputation out of turboing GM products as
    I can recall a Manta GT/E which did the rounds of the rags about 5
    years ago which was generally well received.
    
    I've test driven a number of (low mileage) 16 valve Calibras and they
    all felt a bit unwilling (which I put down to their young age - the
    newest hadn't done 100 miles!). Obviously, from the figures given in
    various tests, the car doesn't lack get up and go once the engine is
    loosened up a bit.
    
    Mark

    
    There was a report of a planned 4WD 200 bhp (for the road) turbo
    Cavalier in A&M yesterday. This car will be built in sufficient numbers
    to qualify for Group A (min 5000) as it is intended to be used on GM's
    return to World Championship rallying.
    
    What makes it significant to this note is that the running gear and
    engine are expected to be transferred into a Calibra in 1992. It sounds
    great, but how much will it cost, given that the 4x4 is already about
    �19,500? Top speed for the Cavalier is rumoured to be 145 mph, so 150
    mph might just be possible for the Calibra.
    
    Mark
    
    PS Mr Mod, can you change the title of this note and perhaps write-lock
    the other Calibra note, or maybe lock this one and put a pointer in the
    other.

    
    What's this about a turbo?
    
    I thought they were planning on upgrading with the V6!

    
    I doubt they'd get as much power out of a V6 normally aspirated engine
    as they will out of a Turbo 16 valve 4 cylinder (same sort of spec as
    the Cosworth Sierra), which is what they need for World Championship
    rallying these days.
    
    Mark
    

I read (somewhere) about Lotus involved in turbocharging the Vauxhall 16v
Calibra (in the same way they did the Carlton), but it implied a production run
and not homologation/racing use for the car...

    
    The Merc 3 L straight six gives ~220 ps, can't see why a 24 valve V6
    couldn't beat that.......

    
    Well, the report specifically mentioned that the Cavalier was being
    built for rallying (it also specifically stated that this would not 
    be a Lotus Cavalier/Calibra). The car is being developed in Germany by
    the GMES (Euro Sport) part of the company.
    
    There was a lot of talk of a Lotus Calibra when the car was first
    released, but I've not seen any confirmation of such a car anywhere.
    It seems a logical progression though.
    
    Mark

�    The Merc 3 L straight six gives ~220 ps, can't see why a 24 valve V6
    
    But in Group A rallying you are 'allowed' to develop 300 bhp.
    
    With a turbo, it is much easier to get *big* increases on that
    without too much extra work.  Try starting with a 300 bhp V6,
    normally aspirated engine and getting another 150bhp out of it.
    
    J.R.

    
    Remember something that the Rover Group rallied Rut?

    
    Biggest problem with the 6R4?
    
    Lack of power!!!!!!
    
    Mark

�    Lack of power!!!!!!
    
    Other versions have been created since, designated 8R4, but I think
    this was for cost rather than power.  Not enough in either case.
    
    At least in Rallycross they stick turbo's on them...
    
    J.R.

 The 8R4 is basically a 6R4 with a Rover 3.5 V8 in the back. By all accounts, 
the original V6 was in fact just a cut down version of this, but was used due
to the amount of space.

		 Alan
		~~~~~~

�the original V6 was in fact just a cut down version of this, but was used due
    
    I also think that this was the case, although the engine was then
    modified somewhat following this.  (was it then made as an [D]OHC ?)
    
    I know that there were different 'stages of tune' available too,
    but this centred around the induction system and the strength of
    the internal components used ('Clubman' and 'International' spec.)
    
    Sorry about continuing this note under the Calibra (Calibre/Kalibur)
    topic - it's not even a GM product !
    
    J.R.

    
    We ought to move the rathole, but the V6 in the 6R4 was not a 
    derivative of the Rover V8 at all. It was an entirely new engine
    designed by AR for use in the 6R4. It's best features were lots of 
    low down torque and good fuel consumption, which AR thought could win
    them international rallies. Unfortunately they were wrong.
    
    Mark
    
    PS And this same engine also won the WSPC for C2 cars one year,
    mounted in the back of an Ecuire Ecosse.
    

    
    So you all missed the point!
    
    It did however produce more than the 300 ps cut-off point that is
    current.

>>   <<< Note 1120.45 by KERNEL::SHELLEYR "RS with the RS (Spanish tin can)" >>>
>>                               -< C A L I B R A >-

>>What's the chance Mr Mod(s) of correcting the title of this note from Calibre 
>>to Calibra. (Sorry but it bugs me and doesn't help if you are searching by 
>>directory).

Done !
    

    
    Re .49
    
    But the AR V6 engine was a highly specialised engine developed for the
    Group B rally cars, such an engine would be too expensive to produce in
    a Group A form (requiring 5000 to be built rather than 200!).
    
    Perhaps another reason GM are talking about a turbo 16 valve is that
    it'll be easier to install in the Cavalier/Calibra than the new V6 (all
    new mounts, etc) and is available NOW. Where is the V6?
    
    Mark
    
    PS Thanks Mr Mod!
    

    The 6R$ V^ produced 450BHP in Group B form.
    
    re 4 rather than 6 cylinders
    
    If 4 Cylinders are better then why are BMW ditching the 2.5 4 and using
    a 2.5 6?
    
    Grant

    The 6R$ V6 produced 450BHP in Group B form.
    
    re 4 rather than 6 cylinders
    
    If 4 Cylinders are better then why are BMW ditching the 2.5 4 and using
    a 2.5 6 in the next M3 ?
    
    Grant

    
    I don't think anyone was saying that 4 cylinders were neccesarily
    better than 4 (I don't believe that for one second :^)), just
    hypothising on the reasons why GM are developing a turbo 4 rather than
    producing a V6.
    
    Mark

    For road cars a straight 6 is better than a straight 4 (BMW) in terms
    of balance (vibrations). For race cars things are different. A V6, like 
    for the F1 turbo days, has the definite advantage of being short and 
    low. Otherwise the V6 is inherently unbalanced. 
    
    The really good engines are the straight 6 and the V12.

Had a ride in one of these Calibra things yesterday, and the car has risen in my
opinion as a result.

Impressed by build quality, etc.
Comfortable seats, comfortable ride, although pootling around Reading for ten
minutes wasn't really a good enough test.

I say "pootling", but was alarmed to glance at the speedo and see we were doing
60 on a narrow 30mph residential road (I wasn't driving!)

This was bad... the car being quite large, and very quiet, the speed wasn't
at all apparent (when I'm doing 60 in the metro, you know about it... I don't
use the speedo, just count the frequency of rattles and things falling off! :-)

I felt that the car's ability wasn't obvious enough to the occupants, but I
suppose it's something you get used to... maybe there's more obvious "feedback"
to the driver... I'd like to drive one to see... some chance!

The engine pulled very smoothly, I liked it from a mechanical point of view.

But I still say it's damn ugly, and now I'll extend that to the interior...
didn't like the dash layout much, or the very shallow windscreen angle.

Oh yeah, mentioning interior, forget it if you're > 6' (like wot I am)...
Why the hell are so many cars made for midgets when so many people are tall???

Scott

    �Oh yeah, mentioning interior, forget it if you're > 6' (like wot I am)...
    �Why the hell are so many cars made for midgets when so many people are
    �tall???
    
    Have to disagree here Scott.
    
    I drove one of these "Calibra thingys" when they first came out and it
    impressed me how much headroom there was. This was because the sunroof slid
    back on top on the roof instead of underneath it like most cars which
    really robs your headroom.
    
    It remains one of the few cars I've driven (with a sunroof) where I
    don't have to recline and slither down in the seat to avoid be jammed
    against the roof.
    
    - Roy (6' 5")

    
    Hello Scott,
    
    Ugly indeed! Sure you weren't in a Celica !!!!!
    
    The performance isn't that obvious to the driver. 90 mph seems like
    crawling on a dual carriageway and 50 is un-noticeable in town. Of
    course you get used to it after a while. The ride can get quite bumpy
    at low speeds, but is better a higher speeds.
    
    If anyone mistakes the Calibra for a 90's Capri they'll soon be
    suprised, but it isn't a sportscar. If you think of it as that you'll
    be dissapointed, but as a GT (in the literal sense) it is a great car.
    
    If you are over 6' the front should be fine. The seats adjust for
    height a lot. In the back the roofline will no doubt cause you
    problems, not so much for the way it slopes towards the back as the
    way it tapers when viewed from above.
    
    Mark

Hi again,

About the headromm issue... no point arguing over this, as we'd both need to sit
in the same car and compare seat position/recline angle, etc to solve it, but
there was definitely not enough room for me to sit up straight in a position
that I found comfortable.

>> but as a GT (in the literal sense) it is a great car

I'll agree with that.

>> The seats adjust for height

Ahhh, maybe this was the problem... wasn't in it long enough to be worth playing
with the seat positions...

Didn't mean to upset anyone by calling it ugly, it's just that it's not my
style... maybe I'm just jealous 'cos I haven't got one :-)

Scott

    
    
    Do both the front seats adjust for height? 

    

    
    I'm wating for a 16v to arrive in a couple of weeks or so - new
    lease car.
    
    Do we know which garage Hertz prefer to get their Vauxhalls from ??
    
    I assume it's from a garage in an area where the reg letters are TAK as
    there are a number of Vauxhalls in the car park with these letters.
    
    Rich
    

    I was in the back of the Calibra that Scott mentioned - his hair was
    indeed sticking out of the sun roof :-)
    
    Also, I agree about the look of the car - YUK, looks like a maggot on
    wheels (especially the white ones!).
    
    Scott, I am sure Vicky will let you have a test drive if you ask her
    nicely - I won't tell her what you said about her driving ;-)
    
    Lisa.
     
    

    
    Here Lisa, you're really pushing your luck now! Maggot on wheels! :^)
    
    Anyway, in my WHITE CALIBRA (!!!!!) both front seats are adjustable for
    height. Like Autocar & Motor said, if this car had a BMW roundel or an
    Audi badge on it no-one would bat an eyelid at coughing up 20k+ for it
    (more like 25+ if it was a BMW!).
    
    Mark
    
    PS Like it or loath it, but there can't be many mass production cars
    which attract the attention that the Calibra still does.

    RE: a few
    
    I am 6'6" and I find not too many problems when sitting in the front or
    driving - but I wouldn't like to be in the back!
    
    I have had mine for 10 months now - and I think it is a fantastic GT
    type car - ideal for long journeys and  arriving  fresh and happy at
    the end of them. The best journey I had was 1.5 hours of 60 mph approx
    over the hills in North Wales at 9.00 at night with no other traffic
    about - great fun.
    
    
    I (and  many other colleagues) got my Calibra from Hartwells in
    Southampton - 0703-226492. I rang them on the off chance - gave them
    the DEC order number, and they confirmed delivery times about 2 or 3
    weeks before Digital fleet contacted me....
    
    
    If you want a test drive of an 8v silver model, then I am based in 
    Hampshire House in Basingstoke. Spend most of my time with customers,
    but if I am in, then I am happy to lend it.... so far that has meant
    Mark Saxby, Andrew Norton and Rich Morgan have all ordered Calibra's...
    I wonder if Vauxhall will pay me commision??
    
    Cheers, Chris

Some *&^%$#@ tried to nick mine from a car park in Windsor the other week!

They ripped out the horn wiring (not a lot of good cos the alarm is separate),
and then PUNCHED the WHOLE passenger door lock assembly back inside the door
shell - it's metal on the inside, but only held in by the plastic edge molding
on the outside, so one good whack and ..... (I expressed my opinion on this
shoddy bit of design/construction to the garage!)

Fortunately, I had the deadlocks on and none of the operating rods that this
action exposed actually opened the door - the deadlock mechanism seems to be
built into the actual catch and disables all access. 

If they'd done the same on the drivers side, I guess they could have defeated
the deadlock by operating the microswithes.

Repair bill was �53. Next time I park there, the EMS is coming out!

Dave

    Re: .58
    
>>>    If anyone mistakes the Calibra for a 90's Capri they'll soon be
    
    
    I think they meant a 60's Ford Consul Capri. Now there *is* a 
    similarity! (-:
    
    JK

	If the deadlocks are the same on the Calibra as they are on the
	Cavalier, then punching in the lock on the driver's side wouldn't
	have helped.  That happened to my wife's car, the deadlocks stopped
	any further access...

	Dave

    
    That is good to hear. My Renault's radio was nicked using this
    'punch-in-the-lock' method. I wonder if they were trying to steal the
    car or merely get to the radio?
    
    Mark

Old Bill reconned they were after the car!

Dave

 Had a chance to do a 1000km in the Calibra 16v this weekend.

 I was impressed with the general shape, its not as ugly as a Celica,
 and did not remind us of a Capri!  The twin exhaust looks good, and 
 the car looks good head on (or in peoples rearview mirror!), with
 the neat front lights. Inside is well shaped, seats comfortable (nice
 to be able to adjust up/down as well as back etc) , and quite alot of 
 space allround.
 
 Straight line performance was better than I expected, I managed at one
 point to get 235km/h (140mph?) on an empty autobahn without too much
 effort, and surprisingly little noise. Cornering ability must be in
 question though, several times it felt as if it wanted to step out
 when taking tight corners.  The power-assisted steering maybe giving
 too little feedback to feel safe.  Brakes were adequate, but I felt 
 they should have had better bite, I think ABS is an option? 

 Overall though a car I could live with.  Ideally a few more horses,
 ABS brakes and a stiffened suspension. 

 Can someone note the UK prices.

    
    Price is about 18.5k nowadays and, in the UK at least, ABS is standard.
    
    Mark

    
    CLAANNNNNNNNNGGGG! :^)
    
    Mark

    Read in this weeks Autocar and Motor..
    
    2 litre 16v turbocharged Calibra out early next year - about 200 bhp,
    0 - 60 in 6 secs, about �25,000.
    
    Standard Calibra body, just different badging.
    
    Rich
    
    

    
    But 25k!!!!!!
    
    Mark

�    2 litre 16v turbocharged Calibra out early next year - about 200 bhp,
    
    I read that the release of this car has been brought forward to this year.
    
    At the price, it definitely isn't worth it, though.
    
    J.R.

  I wonder if a kindly soul, who has a Calibra at DECpark and would be
  willing to let me take a peek - other than thro' the windows. Most of the
  local dealers don't have one in stock and I really would like to be able
  to check one out to see that it'll fit me :-)

  Cheers
  Andy

    Calibra 2.0 16v TURBO
    
    Went to the Motorshow Saturday and the Turbo was on show...No date
    given other than 'spring 1991' and price yet to be announced.
    
    Details:	204PS @ 5800rpm
    		206Lb/ft. from 2400 to 4200rpm.
    		0-62 in 6.8secs
    		Top speed 152mph
    		6-speed manual gearbox
    		4x4 steering and ABS braking 
		Fuel consumption, urban: 24.3,  
    				  constant 56mph: 41.5 !!
                                  constant 75mph: 31.7
    
    And if you want a better interior, then Tickford do an excellent job
    for any Calibra (�1500-2000), although the show car looked good.
    
    For such a jump in performance the car must be �25k+, in the same range
    as the big Audis (S2 is �30k), Carlton 3.0 24v, BMW 325i, Merc 190 16v.
                                                                   

    
    I couldn't see why you'd spend money on the Tickford meself, just a 
    pose factor I suppose.
    
    As for the Turbo, it looked very unusual in it's pale metallic blue and
    with big 16" wheels. Inside the upholstery is very impractical looking
    grey leather with a trip computer the only obvious extra over the 16v.
    
    Most noticeable thing, to me, was the lack of a sunroof. The people on
    the stand couldn't confirm or deny this would be the UK spec, but it
    seemed an odd omission for a car of this class, especially as it's a 
    standard fitting on the lesser models.
    
    Mark

�    given other than 'spring 1991' and price yet to be announced.
    
    Bit late then  ;-)
    
    I'd still prefer the latest (or even an older) incarnation of the integrale
    but then - I would say that, wouldn't I ?
    
    J.R.

    
    They had a NEW Integrale on the Lancia stand. It looked very good.
    
    I don't think you'd buy a 4x4 Turbo Calibra instead of an Integrale,
    but the Calibra is likely to be more economical, reliable and
    practical... :^)
    
    Mark

So what is the new integrale like? And what are the differences between it and
the old one???

    Turbo Calibra with 6 speed box? Must be one of the few production cars
    with that many to choose from! Suppose that boosts the fuel
    consumption. Some drivers of "performance" cars never get out of third
    now.
    
    Andrew

�So what is the new integrale like? And what are the differences between it and
�the old one???
    
    This is still based on the old (current) Delta.
    
    Externally, it has larger arches, different bonnet, small rear spoiler.
    Inside it has slightly different dash layout (still a spirograph exercise).
    
    Where it counts is with further uprated suspension components and changes
    to the 'black box' programming.  This results in 210bhp instead of 200
    as on the previous 16v integrale, with improved response lower down in
    the rev range (although torque is not increased).
    
    There is a write-up in the latest CAR magazine if you want to know more.
    
    J.R.

    JR, I must admit the Integrale looked good - if not the obvious "Ive
    got a tin-can but it will beat the s**t out of ya 911 "... What was 
    the cost?
    
    Mark, I think your right, the show Calibra did not have a sunroof, I
    would expect one in a �25k car.  I asked about the interior, they
    said to me it would be the same as the 16v, i.e. the dead-skin option
    was an extra. I like the 16v setup, and I think by getting the turbo
    your just buying performance.
    
    I received a Tickford brochure today.  Alloys with 16v tyres, seats
    retrimmed/piped, new gearknob, retrimmed/piped dash and doors, badge
    sides and back, chrome sill plate with Tickford logo, footwell lights
    ..Cost is �2500 for 8v, �2000 for 16v. Turbo will probably be �2600.
    Quite expensive, looks nice though, and will make the car sellable in
    the future (not �2000 more though!).

    
    
    If the turbo is going to cost 7k more than the standard 16v, that
    seems an awful lot. 

    

>>    JR, I must admit the Integrale looked good - if not the obvious "Ive
>>    got a tin-can but it will beat the s**t out of ya 911 "
    
    In what way ?
    
    The new 911 Carrera 4 is a 4x4 and a 0-62 time quoted as 4.8 seconds.
    
    Shaun.
    

�    JR, I must admit the Integrale looked good - if not the obvious "Ive
�    got a tin-can but it will beat the s**t out of ya 911 "
    
    One of the good things about the integrale is that it has got
    plenty of performance but looks like 'just another hot hatch'.
    
    Not sure you can really say it will 'beat the s**t out of a 911',
    but from A to B it would be down to the driver(s), not the car(s).
    
    J.R.

Just read the CAR magazine 'review' and they say that the Integrale handling
has been improved as well! Last time i caught a lift in this thing, i would
have sworn handling could not be improved... guess i was wrong! ;-) Wouldn't
mind taking one out for a test drive though... now where can i find a dealer
willing to let a scruffy 21 year old take out his new 'baby'? ;-)

�mind taking one out for a test drive though... now where can i find a dealer
�willing to let a scruffy 21 year old take out his new 'baby'? ;-)
    
    Don't fancy your chances much on that...
    
    J.R.

    
    The handling was a bit odd (switching from understeer to oversteer),
    but on the road the enormous amounts of grip and traction available 
    rather negated the effect.
    
    I suspect the rally drivers are going to be the only people really
    appreciating the improved handling of the new car.
    
    Mark (Frustrated-Integrale-Driver)

    Back to the subject..
    
    I'e had my Calibra about a month now and there are three things bugging
    me.
    
    1. Should the warning light indicating a bulb failure in the brake
       lights only go off when I use the brakes for the first time after
       starting up ?
    2. Should the rear wiper clear all of the rear screen and not leave a
       small section on the passenger as it reaches the end of it's sweep.
       I assume here that the blade can't flex enough to cope with the
       curve in the rear screen.
    3. The handbook says that the interior light should stay on for a while
       once the door is closed. I don't count about 2 nano-seconds as a
       while. Is this adjustable somewhere ?
    
    Rich

    
    Hello Rich,
    
    Couldn't have RTFM too well. :^)
    
    1) The brake warning light stays on until you test the circuit by  
       pressing the pedal!
     
    2) Not sure what you mean here. Mine seems to reach to the bottom of
       the screen on the passenger side, but the top is unswept as the
       blade is too short to do it all.
    
    3) The light seems to go straight out on mine too. I've neve found a  
       way to adjust it.
    
       Mark
     

re .96;

usually the interior light goes out when you turn the ignition key... is this
what's happening? At least, that's what the Cavalier and BX lights do.

And re the sunroof on the Turbo; maybe they don't want to cut a hole and
possibly weaken the roof - you're better off if they fit air con, anyway
(esp. in the Calibra)

Peter.

    
    I wondered if the idea was to strengthen the shell, but air
    conditioning isn't a substitute for a sunroof in my books.
    
    Mark

    
    Asking the rep on the Vauxhall stand, they said that the spec for
    the Calibra Turbo was undecided, but they expected that it would
    include a sunroof.
    
    William.

    
    Just goes to show what a lot of rubbish (polite version) the people 
    at these shows talk. Someone told me that it was difficult to put a 
    sunroof on a car with such a small roof! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    It looks increasingly likely that the next GM rally car will be the
    Calibra Turbo and not a Cavalier based model.
    
    GM are entering a number of 16v FWD Calibras in National championships
    throughout Europe next season, while in the UK a 4WD Turbo version is
    tested. If the RAC agree the Turbo Calibra (as well as the Cosworth
    Escort) may also be seen in the UK Open championship, running in a 
    'To Be Homologated' Class.
    
    This could make rallying interesting! :^)
    
    Mark

>>    GM are entering a number of 16v FWD Calibras in National championships
>>    throughout Europe next season, while in the UK a 4WD Turbo version is
>>    tested. If the RAC agree the Turbo Calibra (as well as the Cosworth
    
    I can see the logic of using 16v Calibras in rallying so far as getting
    competition experience with the model is concerned, but surely the
    Astra will beat the pants off the Calibra version using the same engine ?
    
    Perhaps a 16v Calibra 4WD might be a more suitable start, although that
    may be expected to perform less well (with weight a common handicap).
    
    The Turbo version would promise to be a very potent machine.
    It would also make a pleasant addition to the top-of-the-line motors
    seen in National rallying.  In the International scene, they may get
    the right vehicle sorted out, but team management is possibly more
    important.  Are GM going to be able to cope ?  They don't seem to
    have to much a history as a factory rally team (then again, nor did
    Peugeot and look how they got on in Group B).
    
    J.R.

    
    I guess there is a lot of Astra 16v technology which can be bolted
    straight into the FWD Calibra for a quick start. All Calibra shells
    are suitable for 4WD so they can sort that out without worrying too
    much about the mechanical side. Even in road trim the 4WD version
    suffers noticeably (I'm told) in performance terms compared to the 
    FWD version, so I guess they don't want to be too handicapped. It'd
    be interesting to see how much a Calibra does weigh compared with an
    Astra in Group A trim. Maybe it won't be that much? Other than in 
    weight the Calibra may well make a better car being longer in the
    wheelbase and therefore more stable at speed. 
    
    I seem to remember the GM team with Ascona and Manta 400s being pretty
    capable. Since then they've not had a car to compete with the best, but
    still history counts for nothing; look at the hash Ford are making of
    their comeback!
    
    Mark

>>    I seem to remember the GM team with Ascona and Manta 400s being pretty
>>    capable. Since then they've not had a car to compete with the best, but
>>    still history counts for nothing; look at the hash Ford are making of
>>    their comeback!
    
    These cars were certainly *quite* good in WRC terms.
    
    Unfortunately, there were basically of Group 4 design, but were
    competing in the Group B era.  They were great at National level.
    
    As for these cars in WRC events, was that actually a GM factory effort,
    or was it a Rothmans team ?  Probably somewhere between the two.
    
    Similar for Rothmans-sponsored 911's, they were run by Dave Richards
    and not the Porsche factory (not true of all Rothman's Porsches though).
    
    J.R.

    
    The Rothmans backed cars were factory produced at Russelheim.
    
    The Ascona, particularly, had a very successful life, but the Manta
    suffered, as you say, from being a Group 4 design in a Group B era.
    They did win a number of rallies at WRC level, though.
    
    Mark

0-60 times of cars like the Calibra 16V are worse than the
Astra, but I wouldn't expect the Calibra to be significantly
slower than the Astra 16V going from A to B

    
    I thought the Calibra was Cavalier based.
    
    

    
    Yes?
    
    Mark

    Which Astra would they use? The one with the Maestro bodyshell or the
    one with the Alfasud?
    
    JK

    
    Sorry - comment about Calibra nearly equals Cavaliar was response to
    .102 -- "GM will go rallying with Calibra, rather than Cavalier-based
    bolide".
    
    Note to me -- must learn how to cut & paste in Notes ......

    
    Ah.
    
    I really meant to imply that the Calibra shell rather than Cavalier
    shell would be used. The floorpan and lots of mechanicals and trims 
    are common, but the shells are totally different.
    
    Mark

RE: .109

I'm not absolutrly sure that the new Astra is modelled upon the Maestro....




....there is also more than a hint of Seat Ibiza in there.

:-)

Steve

    
    Well I've just had a poke around under the bonnet of my 16v Calibra -
    filling up water bottles etc.
    
    Good job I checked the oil as well as it was just on the minimum.
    Assuming that the oil was indeed on MAx when the car was delivered some
    5,500 miles ago is it reasonable to expect the car to burn a litre of
    oil per 5,000 odd miles.
    
    I did have a 16v Mazda afore the Calibra which used to get through oil
    at about a litre per 5,000 so maybe it's just the fact that it's a 16V
    engine.
    
    Comments anyone ??
    
    Rich
    

.113>  Assuming that the oil was indeed on MAx when the car was delivered some

 Ah, but was it?  

    
    re 113
    
     I don't think that 16v engines generally drink/burn excess oil. My 16v
    1000 always seems to have more oil come out every service than I put
    in. I do however use Silkoline synthetic oils and 'plastics' can
    stretch under heat and duress.
    
    
     Alan
    

    
    I think the handbook says that high oil consumption is to be expected 
    in the first x,000 miles, but I certainly don't suffer from such
    consumption in my car (never seems to need any!). However, as my car 
    was 7,500 miles old when I got it, the high wear period was probably
    over.
    
    Mark

    Other "sporty" Vauxhall's I have had in the past have all used up oil
    until the first service.... At that stage I normally remember to buy a
    bigger can, so that I am ready.... and then I use the can for the next
    Vauxhall.... as they don't seem to need oiling again.

  Re .11

  Mine too... I checked after 600 miles and the thing had used a litre, but it
  seems to be using less now. I'm glad I did check under the hood tho', the
  headlamp washer bottle was incorrectly fitter causing any added liquid to pour
  out over my boots :-)))

  I can't remember the precise details in the handbook (what a joke!!!) but it
  does suggest keeping a close eye on oil usage for the first few thousand
  miles, by which time it will have settled down.

  As an aside - I heard a story off my bro'-in-law who is 'in the trade' about
  a metro that was using a pint every 200-300 miles. After much investigation
  and limited success he got in touch with the bods at Austin-Rover who told
  him that the kind of consumption experienced was acceptable - beats the
  c**p out of my sierra that had no noticeable oil usage at all.

  Cheers
  Andy

Ahhh Gi'day...�

    Me new  Audi  is using it too.  First service was supposed to be Km 15K
    (?),  and I've already put 2 litres in it in Km 6K.  Maybe the Turbo is
    eating it :)

    
    Well, we took the Calibra to St Anton.
    
    Top speed on the Autobahn was...
    
    well, it's difficult to say, but the speedo goes up to 140 mph and we 
    were still accelerating after it had gone past that. Suffice to say
    it was adequate.
    
    On the way to St Anton we covered around 550 miles at speeds between
    100 and 120 mph (plus the above noted burst.). No problems, the car
    was quiet and refined, but our return to Britain did require a bit
    of readjustment. In Belgium/Germany we were the slowest car on the 
    road at 70 mph (in fog!!!). In Britain (same conditions, but at slower
    speeds) we were the fastest and had to make a real effort to adjust our
    speed downwards. Them Europeans drive like nutters!!! :^)
    
    Mark
    
    PS We didn't need the chains! 

    Interesting.
    
    Traffic here on the motorways runs at a steady 80-90 MPH, with many,
    many cars doing 100+ The speed limit is 120KPH, or around 75MPH. It,
    like the 50KPH limit is town is largely ignored. In town, the average
    on the freely flowing roads is 60-70MPH, and often I'm passed by cars
    that must be doing significantly more. Deep inside town, it's
    pandemonium, with all traffic laws seemingly optional.
    
    On my return to England, I have a *real* problem keeping my speed down,
    AND, sitting fuming behind some dodderer, it is somewhat of a shock to
    realise we're doing 40 in a 30 limit! The traffic move soooo slooowly!
    
    Laurie.

    
    Well the Calibra 4x4 Turbo has been announced and looks like a winner
    to me.
    
    Top Speed 152 Mph
    0-60 6.4 seconds!
    40mpg at a steady 56 mph.
    
    Price 20,950!!!! About 4,000 lower than the forecast price.
    
    Only 500 a year will be sold (I think in the UK, or is that total).
    
    Trim includes the leather seen on the Motorfair car last year and a
    trip computer (as used in the GSi Cavalier). I didn't notice if there
    was a sunroof or not (Anyone got A&M to check?).
    
    Insurance? Well Land Rovers don't cost much to insure and they're 4WD
    so it should be cheap! :^( Expect it to be in the stratospheric region
    of the Sierra Cosworth.
    
    Now there's a Calibra with enough poke not to be embarassed by the 
    Clios and RS Fiascos of this world and handling and traction to make
    sure they don't get catch up on the twisty bits!
    
    Next question is how will it fair as a rally car? The FWD 16v model has 
    already shown quite a lot of promise in Belgium (finished 5th on the
    recent Ardennes Rally setting times faster than the top Group N cars
    in the dry and on a par with some of the Group A cars), so maybe we'll
    see a new force in rallying soon. Good to see, also, that GM have
    resisted the temptation to bespoiler the Calibra Turbo. It's definitely
    a car which looks best unencumbered.
    
    Mark (Off to check my Piggy Bank!)

    
    If you intend to drive a right hand drive Calibra on the Continent this
    year you don't need to stick any black bits of plastic over the lights
    to deflect the beam.
    
    Each headlight unit has a switch which enables you to adjust the lights
    for either continental or u.k. based driving.
    
    Neat.
    
    Rich
    

    
    The black sitcky bits block the beam. The see through orange prism type
    deflect the beam.
    
    Chris
     

    
    Re .123
    
    When are you getting yours then Keith?
    
    Mark
    
    PS DEC are unlikely to buy me anything!
    
    

    
    re: .125
    
    >                        -< Pedantism rules OK. >-
                                ^^^^^^^^^
    Chris,
    
    The word you were looking for is:
    
    Pedantry.
    --------
    
    
        Super-pedant.
    

    
    Mike,
    
    That was there for Laurie. Feeble excuse I know but what do you expect.
    
    Chris
    

.126�    PS DEC are unlikely to buy me anything!
    
    As a full-time contractor in Notes all day, you're getting everything
    from Digital and giving nothing, I suspect.
    
    Keith [no smiley]

    
    The fact that I'm here (during lunch now) still, suggests that the
    people I work for feel I earn my keep.
    
    Mark

re.129:

That's a good one coming from you Keith. Or are you now the full-time notes
police?

Now back to our regular scheduled programme...

/Dave.

  I saw my first Calibra Turbo last week... niiiiice!!!

  We approached the Hockley lights, heading north, side by side - me none
  the wiser in my trusty 16V. Once we passed the lights a clear section 
  opened up, so we started to drag. As a socially minded person I did
  the right thing and eased off aound the speed limit (who knows where
  they've hidden those cameras). This other chap wanted to carry on
  dragging, so hung around for a few seconds, before lighting the blue touch
  paper... gone!!!! As he silently passed by I saw that magic word...
  'Turbo'... I consoled myself with the thought that mine was weighed
  down from all the weeks accumulated dirt :-)))

  Any verdicts from anyone who's driven one????

  Cheers
  Andrew

    If any one needs to know the quote for a Calibra Turbo 4*4 with no options
    is:-
    
    #3049.
    
    Has anyone driven one of these ?
                                                           

    The Calibra 16v is on my shortlist as my next lease car, to be ordered
    about now. Anyone in the Basingstoke/Newbury/Solent area that would let me 
    drive one for an hour or so I would be grateful.
    
    Please reply or mail me Dave white @ucg 7781-1455
    
    thanks
    Dave
    
    
                                                   

    Re: .0 (Vauxhall Calibra Turbo)
    
    Can you please advise the quote number and expiry date.  Also are there
    any extras that can be put on this machine?
    
    
    Thanks
    
    Nig.

    I test drove one of these beasties when they first came out at
    J Davy in Basingstoke.
    
    Their number is 0256 840540
    
    Roy

24000 miles and my cat's dead - not awfully impressed!

Has anyone noticed the 'bug' in the EMS where the engine idles at 2500-3000
rpm with the throttle closed, slowly returning to normal over 10-15 seconds?

Seems to happen often when stopping at lights - declutch at 1200 rpm and the
revs shoot up. That seems to indicate the the EMS is injecting far too much 
fuel  - not supprising the cat is ****** if neat petrol is getting into it!

Dave

    
    What're the symptons of a dead cat? (Other than it going stiff and
    lying on its back with its legs in the air! :^)).
    
    Mark

To start with, the engine warning lamp would come on intermittently, for
anything up to 2 minutes. This might happen on and off for a couple of days
and then not happen again for weeks. Later this symtom went away. At the time
the garage couldn't find anything wrong.

Next, I began to notice that the exhaust note had changed - I thought I had a
leak, but couldn't find anything. This got steadily worse over about three
month and the car now sounds like the all the baffles in the silencer are 
loose.

Also, over the last few weeks, performance has begun to drop off and there are
more bad-egg smells.

The final test is to put the car on ramps, get underneath and shake the
exhaust system - the cat has basically disintergated inside and you can hear
it all rattling about. ****** LET IT COOL DOWN FIRST!!! ********

Now I just have to wait to see how long it's going to take to get a replacement.

Dave

    You didn't bung any lead in it did you? :-)
    
    Gary.

    
    Re .139
    
    Sounds like I need a trip to the garage. I've had similar symptoms, and
    NIM said they couldn't trace the cause of the warning light and dying
    engine at the last service - It went away ok, but the engine note is
    definitely different!
    
    Mark

Re .14 the first - 

You don't seriously expect me to answer that, do you?

Dave

    The symptom you describe where your engine revs go way up if you
    de-clutch at around 1200 rpm, is evident in other Vauxhalls!  I have
    had the same problem with my GTE since day one.
    
    I phone Vauxhall to ask what the problem was and was advised that this
    was a "feature" of the EMS, to "save" the driver from haveing to
    feather the clutch between gear changes.... My personal thoughts on
    this is that godd ol' Vauxhall are full of BS!
    
    I have to say that the first time my car did this it scared the cr@p
    out of me....
    
    I hope you have more luck with your EMS than I have had....
    
    
    Bob

    
    	Not just a Vauxhall problem, my XR3i did this for ages. The problem
    	was intermittent and has now vanished!
    
    	Tony

    A  colleague  of mine (drives a Cavalier GSI) remarked recently that 
    his local garage did a `mod' to  the  Injection  system.  Apparently 
    the  boss  of  this  particular garage had been to some GM outlet in 
    Holland, and got wind of a `tech-tip' which involved  adding  a  330 
    ohm  resistor  somewhere.  The  idea  was  that  it  gave  increased 
    performance and better consumption!! Reports  so  far  suggest  that 
    the  mod  *HAS*  indeed  given  better consumption, but not a *VAST* 
    improvement in performance.

When did the cat die?

How do you know it didn't die when you opened the box?

You picked the wrong one here!

I can tell the cat is dead as i am able to observe it continually (using sound
and also the effect its death has on the world outside - ie poor performance).
Therefore, its multiple possible futures are continually being collapsed at 
infinite number of times per second! 

If the cat was in an opaque, sealed & soundproof box I probably couldn't tell.
But then, did you really type in that reply, or are you a figment of my
imagination?

You read my note!

	I'm uncertain if I want to talk philosophy, I'll make my decision
	when the probability wave front collapses...
	
	Dave

�                <<< Note 1120.137 by SEDDFS::KORMAN "tgif!!" >>>
�                              -< My cat's dead! >-


�Has anyone noticed the 'bug' in the EMS where the engine idles at 2500-3000
�rpm with the throttle closed, slowly returning to normal over 10-15 seconds?

The same thing happened to my mum's mazda, particularly for the first six
thou' miles. To prevent the engine soring into the zenith part of the 
rev' range and eliciting angry glances from fellow traffic light visitors,
she (the cat's mother :-)) engaged first gear and let out the clutch until
it had just engaged. The revs then came down and mumsiegot back into neutral
to avoid jumping the lights :-). Seriously though it did work.

Mike.

    More on another dead cat....
    
    I had the engine monitoring light coming on for a few seconds every 2
    or 3 days.... (the book says if it comes on, and then goes off again -
    don't worry. But if it stays on, then it is dealer time).
    
    The 36,000 mile service seemed to make no difference, but from 38,000
    onwards it was coming on more and more - especially when travelling at
    70 on a motorway, and accelerating to overtake or go up hill.
    
    Cold / cool days - it didn't come on at all.
    
    Ralph Motors (near The Crescent) couldn't diagnose a fault with their 
    normal equipment - but could with a special tool..... The sensor in the
    exhaust was going AWOL. �100 pounds, or so to fix, but it had to be
    done by a dealer, 'cos PHH said so.
    
    Took the car to Newbury Instant Motors, who couldn't diagnose the
    problem at all - but DID notice that the engine management sensor was
    telling them that it had had a problem in the past!!....
    
    
    They put in a new sensor, and at the same time said the cat was
    "noisy". They replaced that at the same time. 
    
    Petrol consumption had dropped over the last few months from 35 down
    to 33. It is now back up to 36 or so, so they must have done some good
    somewhere (or else I am driving slower to avoid all these nasty
    cameras that people keep talking about).
    
    Cheers, Chris

Car is in the garage today for a new CAT.

The one thing that IMPROVED when the cat dies (in my case), was the fuel 
consumption. I estimate an improvement of about 10%. It will be interesting
to see if it drops back when the new one is fitted.
.
.
.Your MILEAGE may vary (groan........)


Dave

    If the mpg was better with a "dead" cat, could you not carry on and
    not bother getting it replaced ?
    
    Roy

    I wonder if an ignition cutout form of rev-limiter is bad for cats ?
    
    Surely this would result in unburnt fuel going through the exhaust
    system, which I thought was not good for car converters ?
    
    I gather that the ignition system on the Calibra has a rev limiter.
    Have you been using it a lot ?
    
    J.R.

The mpg is better - but it stalls when cold, power is down and it's very noisy.

It's all better now tho!

Rev limiting on an electronically managed engine is done by NOT injecting fuel
whilst the engine is above the limit - so no problem there. Anyway, I don't
over-rev my cars - you getter better performance driving on the top of the
power curve, by changing gear at the correct time.

�Rev limiting on an electronically managed engine is done by NOT injecting fuel
�whilst the engine is above the limit - so no problem there. Anyway, I don't
    
    I thought that this would be the case, but have a feeling that it is
    not necessarily done on all systems this way.  If the injection system
    is not 'sequential' - where fuel is injected to each cylinder on the
    intake cycle only - then cutting delivery would work fine.  If it is
    of the more simple form, where fuel is injected to all cylinders at
    the same time (with the pulse length being controlled), wouldn't a
    cut-out result in a lean mixture, which isn't good for the engine ?
    
    Just pondering.
    
�over-rev my cars - you getter better performance driving on the top of the
�power curve, by changing gear at the correct time.
    
    Agreed.
    
    J.R.

    re .156
    
    I would expect that cutting the fuel supply would result in a mixture
    which is essentially all air and no fuel. This will not result in
    preignition or other symptoms of an over-lean mixture. Of course there
    may be a couple of cycles when the mixture is changing and is too lean.
    
    In any case a little preignition does not damage the engine. It is
    sustained preignition which will cause overheating and burning of the
    cylinders/pistons/plugs/valves.
    
    Andrew

I had my EMS going on and off for a while (Vauxhall EMS warning lights have to 
stay on for at least 1.5 minutes for the fault to register, says the dealer)
the registered fault was that the switch between leaded and unleaded was going
wrong... Now as that has never been touched, I don't put much faith in the
fault diagnostics of the Nova EMS... 

At least I don't have a CAT to put up with as well :-)

  RE: Noisy cat (alytic converter :-))

  Anyone care to comment on the fact that Calibras suffer from noisy cats by
  default??? My 16V has gradually got noisier over the past few months or so,
  and it's usually very noticeable after a (relatively) high-speed drag before
  entering urban traffic conditions, and then when the engine in 'under load'
  ie pulling away, I hear a clattery/rattly noise. I haven't had any experience
  of catalytic converters before, and the only thing I can liken it to is noisy
  tappets - or low oil level in the sump (which it isn't).

  At the last service I pointed it out, and they told me that there were no
  unusual noises detectable... which may be true, since I've seen and heard many
  a Calibra making the same rattly noise.

  Cheers
  Andrew

    For what its worth, over the last month or so, my 16v has begun to
    occasionally rev at 1500 when pulling up. It also now gets comments
    that it sounds a bit like a diesel at times.
    
    When it was serviced (54000 a few weeks back) the garage said there was
    nothing wrong. Consumption is still good (mid 40s mpg when I control my
    right foot) and performance is still fine.
    
    Guess it could be the cat?
    
    Clive

I've had my Calibra 16v for almost two years now, and I've had an
intermitant fault with the EMS light coming on, at which
point the performance dies (which I know it's designed to do!).
The symptons are this :-

1. EMS light comes on (normally on a journey >20 miles)
2. EMS light stays on until the engine is switched off
   then on again.
3. EMS light normally comes on again within 5 miles of
   doing no. 2
4. Nothing is ever recorded in the EMS system's  memory
   when taken to a Vauxall's service centre for diagnosis
   on the computer!

I've lost count how many times it's been in the garage,
and how many vauxuall service centres I've used!
I've suggested that as soon as the EMS light comes on,
they put it on the computer with the engine running, 
but they all said "Sorry sir, we can not plug the computer
in while the engine is running".

In the end I complained to the Vauxhall customer 'care'
department in Luton, and after giving them alot of abuse ,
they agreed to change the EMS system. A few days after the
system was changed the bl__dy EMS light came on again.

A month ago I was recommended another Vauxuall Service Centre
in Southampton (Hartwells) .
The forman at Hartwell's told me that the next time the
EMS light comes on to bring it in with the engine still running.
I did this a few weeks later, and they hooked the computer
on  WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING, and diagnosed the fault within two
minutes. Problem was the KNOCK CENTRE LOOM, and there was a 
modified version out. They have since replaced it, and touch wood
I think the problem is now fixed!!

Andy Wright
with his first and probably last vauxhall car.

    
    I've had an Astra 16v for 18 months or so now (same engine). The EMS
    has been replaced twice, several sensors and various other bits.
    It's still $hit. You still have to turn it off sometimes just to
    cure a 3000rpm idle or that wonderful experience of involuntary
    throttle opening. I will never have another have another.
    
    Richard.

Let's all phone up GM and moan about these EMS bugs! Last time they said it
was supposed to do the fast idling thing, but couldn't explain why!

That said, I have had no other engine problems with my calibra other than the
CAT going at 24000 miles - which GM replaced FOC, even though the car was 18mth
old.

Dave

re .-1
>	CATS replaced after 18 months FOC

I was led to believe that the CATS on GM cars are guaranteed for the
life of the car, unless you put leaded fuel in it.

    
    Sounds like the cat on my Calibra has died. The car sounds like a
    diesel at the moment and examination reveals that the contents of the
    catalytic convertor rattle around inside it!
    
    Going in to NIM on Tuesday.
    
    Mark

Re: .165

Nah, it sounds more like your exhaust is dragging on the ground :-)

    
    Must be them low profile tyres then! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    Took the Calibra in yesterday for a replacement catalytic convertor
    (replaced under warranty, c.170 quid otherwise - plus fitting I
    suspect). However, on the way to work, I stopped at Thatcham level
    crossing and the damned thing wouldn't restart (apologies if you were
    stuck behind me and many thanks if you were one of those who pushed me
    off the road). The RAC reckoned it was charging, but the battery wasn't
    holding the charge.
    
    The garage reckoned the same and told me it  would cost 35 quid + VAT.
    As the battery was at most 2 years old, I rang GM to see what the
    normal warranty was on an AC DELCO battery. Without any prompting, GM
    offered to pay for the battery, despite (they said and the warranty
    docs agreeing) it not being covered by the warranty.
    
    GM have been getting some bad press in here recently (true or false,
    no-one knows, but we shouldn't re-open that can of worms at the moment),
    but at least it seems that GM themselves (if not, very often, their
    dealers) are keen to keep customers happy.
    
    Mark

Well, after a new front-end wiring harness and a new EMS, my Nova has learned 
to fly....it's great to be able to put one's foot down hard on the accelerator 
and the car leaps forward, instead of saying -
well_let_me_think_about_that_request_for_a_minute_or_to :-)

�Well, after a new front-end wiring harness and a new EMS, my Nova has learned 
�to fly....it's great to be able to put one's foot down hard on the accelerator 
�and the car leaps forward, instead of saying -
�well_let_me_think_about_that_request_for_a_minute_or_to :-)
    
    Have you had a Calibra body kit fitted as well Jane ?
    
    Shaun.
    

    
>    Have you had a Calibra body kit fitted as well Jane ?
    
Nah...wouldn't fit in my drive way then would it....

:-)

I couldn't do that to dougie....create a note just for the Vauxhall Nova...
could I ?

There are more than enough topics in here without adding another Vauxhall note, 
this one will do...

�                     <<< Note 1120.170 by MANWRK::LEACH >>>
    
    Hello yet again Shaun.  We're both *still* here then (at the moment) !
    
    Send me a mail from an account I can reach you on, please...
    
    J.R.

    Same thing happened on my DOHC 2.0 Sierra.
    
    The supposedly 'maintainence free' battery was knackered after 2 years.
    ATS supplied a new one and charged PHH.
    
    I had the alternator charging current checked and it was withtin
    specs.. 
    
    So,  Not limited to Vauxhalls....
    
    Huw. 

 >>   The supposedly 'maintainence free' battery was knackered after 2 years.
    
    Isn't 'maintenance free' a euphamism for Can't fix it when it goes
    wrong? 
    
    Mark

    Ha ha, Could well be,
    
    I always thought  it meant you didnt have to top it up,
    
    However, mine had boiled dry..
    
    Huw.

   <<< Note 1120.171 by MAJORS::ALFORD "lying Shipwrecked and comatose..." >>>

>I couldn't do that to dougie....create a note just for the Vauxhall Nova...
>could I ?

Am I missing something? Is there another?

Dougie

Well, the joyriders had another go Saturday night!

Broke the drivers �ligth - couldn't get in. Tried to force the locks - no luck.

BUT - they damaged the driver's door lock so much that I couldn't get in 
either. More to the point, I couldn't open the deadlocks or deactivate the 
alarm, so even tho I got in via the tailgate, I couldn't start the car - until
a friend was towing me home and I thought I'd try slipping into 2nd and lifting
the clutch - started 1st try!

SO now I know how to steal a deadlocked Calibra!

    
    Calibra 16V   1200 miles on the clock 
    
    Car has started making a rasping noise from the exaust at around 3.5 to
    4 thou RPM, this sounds similar to the effect of there being a hole
    in the exaust the fault happened after leaving the car parked for 4 days. 
    
    The explanation from the dealer is that there is something trapped in 
    the CAT possibily a piece of carbon, and that this will soon clear.
    I find this hard to believe. 
    
    When the ultrasonic is switched on the LED in the passenger side
    detector flashes. The manual says this is a fault condition but the
    dealer reckons that some flash and others stay off
    
    Any comments or experience on the above ?
    
                                         
                                         

    
    What do you mean by flashes?
    
    I believe it SHOULD blink a couple of times and then go off and I've
    seen the light flickering (at a lower intensity) in my car and,
    especially (it seemed brighter to me) in my father's Cavalier. 
    
    I've not encountered any problems with the alarm, although I've not had
    the car broken into either (Thank God!).
    
    Mark

    
    
    Re .179
    
       on off on off on off on off on off
    
    
    

    
    Re .181
    
    Rapidly? 
    
    Continuously?
    
    Normal brightness or dull?
    
    Mark

    
    Spratleys in Mortimer have a Calibra 8v in at the moment,and i've
    managed to con my way into a drive in it tonight.Are there any phrases
    which I can use to describe the mechanics of the Calibra,which may
    reinforce my story as to why I want one?(I'm not going to buy one
    yet,not for another 3 years,but i'm dying to drive one)
    
    	Andy..I..Love..test..drives.....
    
    

A friend just faxed me an article from some anonymous motoring mag which 
describes an interesting version on the Calibra. 

"Calibra Thunder

 Vauxhall has a history of sucess in heavy metal Thundersaloons. John 
 Cleland and Vince Woodman took the title twice back in the late '80s. then
 Pete Stevens took the same Carlton V8 to victory last year.

 And now for 1993 there's a sensational new contender to wave the Vauxhall
 flag. Based on the smart Calibra Coupe, this stunner is propelled by a 
 550bhp Pontiac V8. Driving duties will be shared between AC Cobra racer
 Bill Shepherd and former BTCC man Nick Whale."

The picture is of a Calibra with a front airdam which almost scrapes the
ground, flared wheel arches with cooling ducts (both front and rear arches),
huge wheels at the back and a spoiler which looks like it was nicked off of
a Ferrari F40. I suspect that this is a case of "who needs back seats, let's
shove an engine in there instead."

Over the top and I love it...

Clive

    
    Clive, 
    
    This car just won its first race, and the Calibra V6 4x4 has just had
    it's first outings in the German Touring Car Championship and was well
    up amongst the fastest Mercs and Alfas. 
    
    Personally, I'll take the GTCC car. :^)
    
    Mark

>Personally, I'll take the GTCC car. :^)

No accounting for taste (or in my case, lack thereof) :-) Besides, who 
needs rear seats and subtlety?

Clive

PS Am I unique in being the only Calibra owner to reach 100k miles on the 
   original cat. It is being replaced today after 100,400 miles.

>Personally, I'll take the GTCC car. :^)

No accounting for taste (or in my case, lack thereof) :-) Besides, who 
needs rear seats and subtlety?

Clive

PS Am I unique in being the only Calibra owner to reach 100k miles on the 
   original cat. It is being replaced today after 100,400 miles.

    The recent Calibra bill board posters show one in canary yellow.
    
    Is this a special colour for top of the range (4x4 or V6) or available
    thoughout the calibra range as the colour certainly isn't in the
    '94 colour brochure.
    
    Royston

It's the Calibra 16v SE2. The former SE is now the 2.0i
8v.



	Ian

    I am considering a Calibra as my next car but I have heard one or two
    comments from other drivers that the seats are none too comfortable.
    Is this a general problem with Calibra's?
    
    The drivers I spoke to had the leather seats option.
    
    I'm considering the 2.0 SE3.
    
    Frank.

I find the seats uncomfortable, but only for long journeys - over 1 1/2
hours. The most annoying things are the very poor reception on the 
radio and bad door hinges. those doors are heavy and the hinges don't
always hold them properly. having said that, I think the 8v is great.

    At 6'6" I found the standard seats on my Calibra 8V very comfortable. I
    used the car for work (1.5 to 2 hours each way to customer site), and 
    pleasure (4 hours each way to parents, boat and other enjoyments) -
    over 24,000 miles a year.

I've had my 16v for just over two years now, done about 90,000 miles in 
that time. It takes a bit of time to get a comfortable driving position,
but I find it fine for most journeys including the weekly run from 
Barnsley to Fareham and back.

If it was for the lack of space, I'd have another (tho' probably a V6 or 
Turbo).

Clive

    I had an early 16v, and for the first coule of months I had to
    stick foam pads at the base of the seat back! I found them comfy
    but by back took a long time to adjust to the strange curve of
    the seat back. After the hour's slog into work I couldn't get 
    out of the car for a minute as it was so painfull.
    Probably due to my lazy posture, but two Car mags reported
    simmilar feelings on long tests. I got used to it after a
    couple of months and it was fine.
    Previous car was an Astra GTE, I thought the seats MUCH better in
    that, and current car is Cav Sri 16v again seats are better.
    Other people in the office got Calibra's and had no trouble so
    I'm probably just strange.....
    
    Matt

    Took me two weeks from new to find a comfortable seat position on my 8v. 
    Once you have found it, MEMORIZE it, since the back never stays in the same
    place after you raise the seat.
    
    I've driven some longs stints >8 hours and had no problems at all.
    
    The general 'expert' opinion is that you should sit so that you can
    press the pedals comfortably, and that the back of your thighs are 
    supported by the seat. Your arms on the wheel should have slight bend
    to them, and the seat back should be so that you're not quite upright 
    (so that you don't compress your abdomen) nor should it be so far back
    that your shoulders are not supported by the seat back.
    (source: an orthopaedic surgeon in a car mag article)
    
    Huw.     

I don't know why everyone is debating the comfort etc ..etc..

I've had mine for a year..and I suggest you don't:-

1) get Air Conditioning
2) Leather seats are nice but the bar holding the leather keeps coming out
3) Radio has broken
4) Sensors such as Break pads/Washer bottle keep malfunctioning
5) The doors never stay open once opened

Apart from that they're not too bad..

My advice is ...Don't bother

Tony 

    RE .-1 In  defence:
    
    >Air Conditioning
    >Leather seats
    >Break pads/Washer bottle Sensors
    
    Don't get these on an 8v, so they cant go wrong :-)
    
    >Radio has broken
    
    Not on mine it hasn't
    
    >doors never stay open
    
    Yep. Fixed under warranty.  
    
    Damn fine car.
    
    Huw. (2yrs 38,000 miles)
                  

re -last couple

    >Air Conditioning
    >Leather seats

Didn't have these on my 16v.

    >Break pads/Washer bottle Sensors

Only ever lit when pads were nadged, or washer bottle was empty.

    >doors never stay open
 
Mine do.

I guess you got a friday afternoon calibra.

Clive (137000 miles)

    re >doors never stay open
    
    Park sideways on a hill.
    
    But seriously :-
    
    	Maybe some models had sprung doors but others didn't?
    Early/late model differences etc or is this a common problem
    on Calibras? They look like heavy doors.....

    
    My front and rear window wash systems failed on the same day (well, the
    rear one could have failed earlier, but I don't use it that much).
    
    The front one had a broken wire and the rear a broken pipe.
    
    Funny that..........
    
    Ian.

	I'm considering buying the V6, leather and all.  Does anyone have any
worthwhile experience of the V6?
	My friend, and Vauxhall dealer has kindly managed to obtain a V6 which 
he is giving me for week.  It's an automatic, but I'd asked for this since I've
driven the V6 Cavalier with the manual.  If anyone gets a chance to drive this,
take it.  The experience of the power is worth the new pair of underpants.
        Just a note of interest on insurance.  Admiral quoted me an annual
    premium of 481 pounds (200 pounds excess) with bonus protection.  This
    was the best by around 450 pounds.
	

    
    re:.201
    
    Definitely a decent car.  I had one for a few days and was well
    impressed.  It seemed to handle much better than the 2.0 8/16v, must be
    due to the traction control - 'cos it's a nightmare to drive without
    it.  I don't know what the auto box is like on these, it might not feel
    quite like the same car the manual is; it didn't seem to really move 
    until the revs reached > 5000.
    
    I did a few 900 mile round trips and about the only thing that I
    didn't like was having to change the single-play CD every hour or so...
    
    Chris.

    My friend has the V6, nice and quite and very powerful.

    	Day 2 of the V6 trial period and I'm very impressed so far.  The
    car is as powerful as I'd hoped (left my friend trailing in his 16V)
    and is very quiet when cruising.  One interesting thing - when I'm
    accelerating hard, it seems as though the music system adjusts the
    volume at the same time (or maybe it was the lager shandy I had) - at
    least at high speed.
    	Many gadgets including heated front seats, which are more use in
    Scotland than air conditioning; electric sunroof, mirrors and windows,
    traction control, low torque control for driving in snow and sports
    mode on the automatic gearbox, which makes acceleration quite
    frightening.
    	Looks like I'll be ordering one of my very own - a christmas
    present to my wife, but if she doesn't want it, I'll have it. 

Auto volume adjust?  Sounds like it ain't as quiet as expected.  I've heard that VW 
had this, but then in a VW you proberbly need it!

    
    ....the volume-compensation thingy, is a feature on the Sc804 stereo,
    which (I think) is standard on the V6 - this is the same SC804 which I
    have in my Frontera Sport which doesn't work because theres nothing on
    the engine to fasten it to.... shame they didn't publish that in the
    brochure %^/
    
    Graham
    
    BTW, the amount of compensation can be adjusted using one of the little
    knobs above the volume control - if you want to know which one you'll
    have to wait 'til next week and I'll bring the handbook in.
    
    

    Yep, the V6 has volume comp.

    re .207. 
    
    It is the one on the top left.  You pull it all the way out and if it
    didn't come off in your hand you turn it clockwise to make the
    compensation greater, you can feel little clicks. 
    
    It is possible to overcompensate so that you can barely hear the stereo
    when stationary but get deafened whilst driving :-)
    
    tmp

    
    	The Headlamp units on the Calibra look as though they could be the
    same as used on the Xantia.  does anyone have a definitive answer on
    that question please?
    
    	The reason for asking is that those on the Xantia are appalling to
    put it nicely.  On dip beam, one is almost blind on an unlit road when
    someone comes the other way.  Not only that, main beam leaves the dip
    beams on which diminishes the effectiveness since there is too much
    light coming back at you from close up etc.
    
    	Anyone know, if the Calibra Headlamp units are good, if they will
    fit the Xantia?  This is my only real complaint about the Xantia.
    
    				Malcolm.

    It know it natty and very cheap looking, so I take it you don't want
    any additional lamps such as driving lights or spot lights?
    
    Unless Vauxhall & Citreon get their lights from some 3rd party, I
    strongly doubt the two units are directly interchangeable. Subtle
    differences in the shape of the unit might mean the lights foul the
    panels when taken from a Calibra and put into a Xantia, but (if they're
    better) I guess it might be worth trying.
    
    Regards,
    
    Dan

    
    The lights on the Calibra are not terrible (my old Cavalier Coup� was 
    the one for that!), but they're not a patch on the lights on my Rover
    (especially on full beam). They also get dirty very quickly, which 
    dims them dramatically.
    
    Mark

Re.211
			 Citro�n!
>>>    Unless Vauxhall & Citreon get their lights from some 3rd party, I


	I don't know of any Motor manufacturer who make their own lighting units
today.  They all buy them in (to their own spec maybe), I imagine that it is
possible that both Citro�n and Opel might use the same (Bosch?) supplier.

				Malcolm.

    The Xantia is only sold in UK, Ireland and Japan with RHD lights.  SO
    they used the same light units for all three countries.  This means
    that we get stuck with the very restricted light output demanded by the
    Japanese ministry of transport.
    
    People have tried putting higher wattage bulbs in the existing units,
    but the bulb-life is a matter of a few hours.
    
    Now, I understand that Citroen have had enough UK and Irish customers
    complaining that they've introduced a new design of lens.  The new lens
    is a direct replacement for the old one and a pair is somewhere under
    �100.
    
    Otherwise make sure that the headlamps are adjusted whilst the engine
    is running (to get the suspension at the right height), and get them
    set slightly high.  It's not perfect, but it is an improvement.
    
    Nick

Thanks for that Nick.  I've done all the set-ups 'cos the Garage couldn't or
wouldn't do it properly after three times of asking - bought myself an extra
long Allen Key for the job.

				Malcolm.

    If anyone finds a garage with a SE4 that includes a CD player, can you
    let me know asap.
    
    I've ordered one as a lease car, and they haven't found one yet!
    Apparently a certain percentage of the SE4's have CD players.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Greg

    
    Greg, it might be easier to have a CD dealer fitted, it'll cost
    another couple of hundred quid a year, but you can have a better
    quality 6 CD changer fitted for that price.
    
    Chris.

    re .217
    
    Chris,
    
    To dealer fit, just the single CD player is 350 quid! On VTX the list
    price to add this is 38 quid a year, hence the reason I'm anxious to
    find one! You can't add options to the SE4 apart from dealer fit.
    
    Greg

    
    Greg,
    
    If you can't get one, why not just nip down to Leeds Car Radio (or
    whatever the equivalent is in your neck of the woods) and have one
    fitted out of your own pocket? You can always remove it and put it in
    your next car and it may even work out cheaper over a couple of
    vehicles!
    
    Mark (No, I've not got a CD player).

    Anyone got a Calibra with car phone?
    
    A friend has his aerial in the left hand corner of his back windscreen,
    which is really bad for people in the back.
    
    Some people seem to have the aerial in the middle of the back screen,
    but does this get in the way of the back window washer? Do you need one
    of the small aerials?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Greg (SE4 arriving on Friday)

    
    	In the middle of the back screen, Greg, about 6" down from the top.
    	No problems whatsoever.
    
    	Andy.

    Wot size aerial Andy?

    
    	Massive ;-) I only use the short stubby one on very cold days...
    
    	Andy.

    Err, serious answer needed as well ;^)
    
    Greg

    
    	I told you - the big 1
    
    	What else do you want? Actual dimensions? I use the long aerial
    	that came with the phone from Panasonic.
    
    	Andy.

    Cheers Andy,
    
    But you actually said:
    
    >> Massive ;-) I only use the short stubby one on very cold days
    
    Which didn't make it clear wether you had the long or the short one!
    
    Cheers anyhow!
    
    Just gotta make sure the Mercury guy fits it properly now!
    
    Greg

    
    
    Recieved my SE4 last Friday.
    First impressions....looks the mutts nuts, very comfortable, easy to 
    drive, handling not too bad but nowhere near as good as the 19 16v,
    could do with more poke, i'm sure i'll be able to live with it !
    
    
    		Nick.

    
    >>handling not too bad but nowhere near as good as the 19 16v
    
    Sorry to move this conversation to Cavaliers, but the Cavalier I
    received a few weeks ago seems to handle a lot better than the
    older Calibras I've driven (excluding the V6 & turbo obviously).
    I heard they'd uprated the suspension for the latest model before they
    phase this one out, so has this suspension change (if any??) been
    transferred to the Calibra?  You'd think it would be...
    
    (and no comments about nothing handling like a company car!)
    
    Chris.
    

    
    	re. the suspension change, i believe the 8v and the SE4 are
    basically a 16v with an 8v engine, which means that it would have 
    uprated springs and gas shocks, it also has exactly the same gearing
    as the 16v.
    
    		Nick
    

    Be honest Greg, I think the SE3 was a rogue quote as its cheaper
    than the 8V on the PCL and they have the same list price.
    
    Royston

    Dunno Roy, ever SE calibra has been a bargain, according to others in
    the office, who have the SE3.

    Yep, every SEn I have seen has been cheaper than the PCL 8v.
    
    Roy, I agree with you, it still surprises me that people think cars not
    from Vauxhall should have comparable prices. Like you said we've had
    the Vauxhall scheme for quite some time. Perhaps these 'surprised'
    people are just changing their cars for the first time under the new
    scheme. I haven't changed mine yet under this scheme, I just got under
    the wire last time, but I think the prices are favourable on the PCL,
    but then I like Vauxhalls.
    
    I still think it would be a good idea for the fleet VTX pages to show
    the list price of the cars. Saves us the job of going to the dealer and
    asking for a price list.
    
    Would anyone be interested in me putting up a WWW page with all the
    Vauxhall list prices on it, options as well?
    
    In fact would it be easier if I just allowed you to select fro a list
    of cars and options, like filling in a form, and then returning the
    calculated list price?
    
    Let me know, if there is enough interest I'll have a go, but it'll be
    in my spare time!
    
    Cheers,
    Stuart

    And add really nice piccies of the cars, interiors etc Stuart ;^)

    Is the SE3 8v and the SE4 16v???  :kevin

    
    I think the SE4 is 8v.
    
    Chris.

    whats the difference between a SE3 and SE4  :Kevin

1?

Mathematically,
Matt.

    
    SE3 was a special edition 8v, cheaper than the standard 8v, one colour,
    alloys, that sort of thing (but I found out about it too late and
    couldn't find one anywhere!).
    
    SE4 is a special edition 8v, one colour, cream leather hide, alloys...
    
    Chris.

    SE1 was a black (I think) 8v with alloys and black leather seats.
    SE2 was a yellow 16v with different alloys and black leather seats
    SE3 was a purple 8v with alloys
    SE4 was a metalic blue 8v with alloys and white leather seats
    
    SE4 is also Lewisham.
    
    Clive

    
    I think the SE1 (only called the SE) was actually metallic blue.
    
    Mark
    
    PS Tell me they didn't make a Calibra in that purple they make the
    Corsa in!!!!!

They made one in "British Telecom Van" yellow, so it wouldn't surprise me.  
However, I think it was the dark metallic purple.

    Yup, the SE3 is in incredibly boring dark metallic purple. The least
    sporty looking Calibra I have ever seen. And can anyone explain what
    Vauxhall have put in the steering wheel? I guess it is an airbag, but
    the steering wheel bulge seems big enough to take an infaltable
    matress.
    
    Clive

>>> but
    the steering wheel bulge seems big enough to take an infaltable
    matress.

Aaah, that'll be the Calibra "Camper", you were looking at.  It is indeed an 
inflatable matress.  On the other hand, it could just be an abominable design 
nightmare, perpetrated by the GM "designers".

    
    rathole (continued)
    
    
    Yep, all the Calibras with airbags seem to have a really high steering
    wheel for the driving position.
    
    Notice the good marketing effort of not putting the new 2.0l 16v engine
    in the Calibra as they have done with the Cavaliers.
    
    C.

    >>infaltable matress
    
    I 'aint saying a thing! :-]

    Mind you, in an accident I'd rather headbutt the 'infaltable' mattress
    supplied by Vauxhall as opposed to the inflatable crisp packet that
    Rover provide.
    
    SE3 owner
    

    
    >>    Mind you, in an accident I'd rather headbutt the 'infaltable'
    >>mattress
    
    Not the one in Dan's car you wouldn't!
    
    C.

    *ahem*
    
    Nice bit of fibreglass never hurt anyone :-)

    re .71
    
    You're more likely to have an accident in the Calibra because the
    inflatable matress holder obscures your view out of the windscreen,
    thus preventing you from seeing oncoming vehicles, the road, or
    anything other than the steering wheel in fact.
    
    re .72
    
    Oooeerrr....
    
    Clive

    Guys, this is turning into a Calibra discussion in the quotes note!
    
    Come on Mod move em to a new note string.

    � Notice the good marketing effort of not putting the new 2.0l 16v engine
    � in the Calibra as they have done with the Cavaliers.
    
    What does this mean? Is there a VERY new 2.0 16v engine? Last I heard
    they'd dropped the 150 Bhp 16v 2.0 (as seen in the Astra GSi) from the
    Calibra (pity really, 'coz it's a nice engine, if a little peaky).
    
    Mark

    
    >>What does this mean? Is there a VERY new 2.0 16v engine? Last I heard
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Just that the 8v Calibras are still around when it appears Vauxhall
    have dropped the 8v engine from Cavaliers.
    
    The new 16v ECOTEC engine in the 2.0 Cavaliers does about 138 bhp I
    think.  It's geared a lot different to the old 2.0 engined models as
    well, presumably 'cos it's got more torque.
    
    Chris.

    Calibra 16v has the new Ecotec engines, so I guess it's the new one!

I recently took delivery of my new Calibra SE4.  Okay, it's got the bog
standard 8v engine, so it's not the fastest thing on 4 wheels, but the
performance it still perfectly acceptable.  I like the leather seats,
although the cream colour is already starting to pick up the dye off
my jeans so I guess it'll need regular cleaning!

It's also got the trendy white instrument dials (to match my socks, yes
I watched top gear last night too), and a couple of extras for battery
charge and oil pressure (is it *really* supposed to be running at 5
atmospheres?!)

More comments when I find something to complain about (!), but my first
impressions of the car are very good.

Chris.

    I am in the midst of lookingfor a Calibra and was setting my sites on a
    16V when a couple of poeple said that i should not get the 16V and
    should stick with the 8V version as :-
    
    	a) The 16V engine gives a lot of problems i.e revving up and down
    and not being very reliable and
    
    
    	b) not being that much faster than the 8V ????
    
    
    			Could anyone shed any light on this subject please
    as I am getting different opinions from every other person I ask. I
    really had my eye on the 16V version you see!!!

    8-valve engines in general have always produce more torque than their
    16-valve equivalents or, failing that, at least lower down the rev
    range.
    
    There's also the arguments of less complex, less things to break, etc!
    
    As for Vauxhall-specific engines, I can't really tell you... I have no
    experience with any except the 2.0 8v fitted in my dad's Cavalier but,
    for what it's worth, that's a crackingly driveable and nice motor, even
    if the gear change is disgusting.
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    re .255
    
    I had a 16v calibra and never experienced any engine problems apart
    from the occasional revving, courtesy of the ECU. Certainly it was a
    very reliable engine, and the car was still going strong after 140k
    miles in 4 years.
    
    With regard to performance, get the 16v. It's a lovely revvy, thrashy
    engine and is a lot more fun than the 8v.
    
    Clive

I currently drive an 8v Calibra, which is a nice torquey engine and
pulls well even at high speeds.  Although it has respectable
acceleration, the power doesn't seem to come in at higher engine
revs like I would've expected, so the performance isn't astounding,
but it'll do.

The only 16v Calibra I've driven was the 4x4 Turbo.  That thing was
just ridiculous, I was glad to get shot of it (and that was only after
a week!)

Chris.

    Hi,
    
    I've got an SE3 8v Calibra and have also driven the 16v Ecotec Calibra.
    There is a noticable difference in performance, however it's not as
    much as I expected. It all depends on how much spare cash you have.
    In my case I was saving 1000 pounds a year by going for the 8v so I
    didn't even consider the 16v. However if cash is not an issue, then go
    for the 16v. However, I think you'll be please with either engine as
    they both perform well. The 16v also uses less fuel.
    
    Eric
    
    P.S. Don't get a Massey Cavi rep mobile :-)
    

    I test drove the 8v and the 16v Calibra, I now own an 8v for the
    following reasons:
    
    The 16v is a very noisy engine, I've been in quieter diesels
    The 8v is cheaper!
    
    
    However the 8v did have less performance than the 16v and I also
    believe the 16v suspension is stiffer.
    
    The 16v seems to have the following technical add-ons which the 8v
    doesn't:
    
    Integral front fog lamps
    Different dash electronics (you get more 'check' lights)
    
    
    If money is not an object, and it has to be a Calibra, check out the V6
    (lovely quiet engines, very powerful) or the 16v Turbo 4x4 (incredible
    car, 6 forward gears)
    
    Or if it doesn't have to be a Calibra why not check out the Mazda MX-6.
    
    Greg

    
    If I had a choice between the 8v and the 16v Ecotec, then the 8v would
    probably be OK 'cos there isn't as much difference as there used to be
    between the two engines performance-wise.  The 16v Ecotec needs revving
    up to 4.5K and beyond before it pulls with any more noticeable force
    than the 8v.
    
    The 4x4 turbo is just too much; although having the sixth gear helps 
    fuel economy, when you put your foot down the juice still seems to 
    disappear at an alarming rate.  The 4x4 turbo is also not that much 
    fun to drive, although it is reasonably fast and cornering is good - 
    when the front wheels start to lose grip you just floor it a bit more 
    and the rear wheels push you round quite well.
    
    If you have a choice of any Calibra then the V6 is probaly the best out
    of the four.  The traction control works very well and as such it's a
    much more driveable car than the 8/16v 'cos the wheels stick to the
    road better when accelerating through corners (e.g. they don't lose
    traction so the front end doesn't go out of line so much).  The V6
    sounds good for a Vauxhall engine too...
    
    Chris.

    
    I never found lack of traction to be the big problem with the Calibra,
    it's  understeer. The things a barge on twisty roads, but great on
    motorways (when it's not breaking down or bits are falling off), quiet
    and very economical.
    
    I drove an 8 valve and it seemed pretty nippy, but settled on a 16
    valve as I couldn't convince myself that I would stay happy with the
    performance of the 8 valve over a prolonged period.
    
    I wouldn't consider another one, unless they mate the V6 engine to the
    4wd system, but then again, there're better cars around for what that
    would probably cost.
    
    Mark
                        

    
    	jmo, of course...
    
    	I've driven and "lived-with" all four, although not long with the
    	4x4 turbo - I valued my licence too much!
    
    	8v: nice, better low-down torque than 16v, but not great at 85+.
    	Gets noisy and sounds rough past 5k.
    
    	16v: current lease car, nice motorway cruiser, more than enough
    	performance for me, extra toys, great acceleraton - better than
    	the V6 up to 90-ish, but then loses out ;-)
    
    	V6: over-rated. Lovely quiet lump, nice 6-sounding roar when
    	you ask it to bark, but sluggish low-down - this seemed strange
    	to me. Traction Control is good. Acceleration is not as good as
    	16v.
    
    	4x4 Turbo: breathtaking performance - and fuel consumption.
    
    	None of these should be considered if you want to belt along
    	twisty country roads. They're suited for comfort and long-distance
    	touring.
    
    	Andy.

    
    
    Anybody had any towing (caravan approx 17cwt) experience with the 
    8v Calibra?
    the engine/gearing sounds okay what about the suspension?
    
    Richard(young@wlo)
    
    ps.I noticed the earlier comment about dye from jeans on the se4's
    cream leather what about kids muddy feet etc?
    

Yes,

I've towed a bike trailer and a caravan with my 8v Calibra. No problems at all. 

The close ratio box makes short work of towing, and you can cruise all day at 
60-70 on Motorways in top gear.

Suspension's Ok too. I tend to put heavy stuff in the boot anyway, to lighten
the 'van (awning, spare wheel etc.), and the car wasn't resting low. I needed 
plenty of air in the rear tyres though.
 
Furthest I've been is to Holland, three up.  
  
Huw.

    
    
    Thanks for that Huw.
    
    Richard(young@wlo)
    

    Could someone with an SE4 let me know what tyres are on it?
    
    Mines just come back after having it's wheels nicked and I wondered if
    they had replaced with a different model/make of tyres.
    
    Greg

>    Could someone with an SE4 let me know what tyres are on it?
    
Mine's got Continental 205/55 R15's on it...

Chris.

    
    
    Well my order is in for an SE4, but it was not all plain sailing, first
    I was told there were no more available but I found a dealer who had
    one and put lease plan on to them, long and short of it is they are
    prepared to get it from there but as they won't match Wadham Kennings
    discount I've got to take the financial hit so it comes out at �3,600
    instead of �3,446 but its still �100 cheaper than an 8v off the list.
    
    Can't wait to get it now but I can't take 1/aug delivery as I'm on
    holiday that week and the week after 8*(
    
    Richard(young@somewhere_otherthan_wlo_as_it_don't_exist$anymore)
    
    P.S. Who said only 5 dealers can supply Vauxhalls
    
    

>    Richard(young@somewhere_otherthan_wlo_as_it_don't_exist$anymore)

well I moved out of sunny Welwyn 6 months ago, and I still haven't heard
anything substantial about WELCLU moving anywhere...

Back to the subject, I've had my SE4 for a couple of months now (and have
only done 2.5 thousand miles - pitiful!) and have thoroughly enjoyed it
(despite some idiot arsing about today), I think it's a very competent car
even with the nasty corporate logo that has invaded the air intake!

Chris.

    
    Chris, thanks for the feedback on the SE4.
    The Welwyn office closed last friday, and I am reliably informed that
    Welclu will be moving (along with a lot of other ALL-IN-ONE systems)
    and there will be 2 super clusters one in basingstoke one in warrington
    running ALL-IN-ONE for the whole country, and september has been given
    as the date.
    
    My SE4 has been moved out of the showroom, and was parked in the
    garages yard this afternoon.
    
    
    Eichard

    
    
    Of all the things to spell wrong I made a typo on my name! it should of
    course read:-
    
    Richard

    
    I have just put a quote for the new Calibra SE5.
    
    Standard Specification
    
    o Cream leather seat trim
    o Grundig 4870  radio/cassettes player with 10 disk CD-autochanger
    o Black paint
    o 6j X 16 Champagne  multi-spoke alloy
    o Lowered sports suspension
    o 2.0,115ps engine
    o Drivers air bag
    o ABS
    o Ultrasonic alarm system
    
    500 to be made
    
    Available late November
    
    I have no other information but will put the quote in 2290 when I
    receive
    it.
    
    Araz
    

    re .273
    
    Add on locking wheel nuts asap.......
    

I wonder why they keep fitting the `Special Edition' models with the weedy
8v engine?  It must cost Vauxhall more to produce two types of 2 litre engines
than they recoup by selling the 16v one at an inflated price!

Chris.

    I'd guess that the 8v is quite a bit cheaper to insure and may appeal
    to the young(er) private buyer. Rather like the 328i Sports appeals to
    people who can't afford an M3.
    
    Rik

Yeah, but 8v vs 16v isn't exactly in the same league as as ...i vs M whatever!
...And, wasn't it the insurance companies who, when questioned about the
outrageous quotes for diesels a few years ago, said `well, a 1.8 is a 1.8,
whatever fuel it uses'?

Chris.

    I find my steering is a bit strange on the SE4, my wife describes it as
    fighting the car. I've had the tracking checked at the last service,
    but I've got it booked in again on Wednesday, as it's still no better. 
    
    It has Uniroyal Rallye tyres on it, and we find that it gets knocked
    off course by bumps very easily under braking and cornering. It also
    seems to get 'tracked' and follow something on the road, not
    necessarily where I want it to go!
    
    Anyone got any tips I can point the garage towards?
    
    Greg

    
     I dont know about the car wandering across the road but i definately
    didnt like the handling of my SE4. After 20,000 miles i had the
    Uniroyals on the front changed and now have Michelins, its like 
    driving a different car, the handling has changed dramatically.
     I'd get new tyres asap, the Uniroyals are crap.
    
    
                        Nick.

    Mine wasn't an SE4, but I had similar problems with Uniroyals,
    paticularly with white/yellow lines which caused significant lateral
    movement. I changed to Pirellis with similar improvement.

    Did any of you have company cars and manage to get the tyres changed?
    Will Leaseplan change tyres if they make the car unsafe to drive, or do
    I have to wear some rubber down ;^)

    I only changed mine when they were due anyway. It was actually a Hertz
    car, and they didn't seem to mind what type of tyre was fitted, despite
    the fact that the tyre place tell you its a problem, probably just
    trying to sell the brand with highest margin.
    
    Derek

I'm not sure what sort of tyres my SE4 is fitted with (and I'm not going out 
in the rain to have a look!), but I find that the car reacts badly to camber 
changes, which cause it to wander a lot.  One confusing example is along a 
stretch of the A120, where you have to steer to the left even though the road 
bends to the right!

Chris.

You've got a REAL problem. No car should be that bad

Alan

Sound pretty bad. I did 95K miles in my 16v (purchased with 45K on the
clock, pxed with 140K miles) and it never behaved like that. I originally
ran it with Pirellis (P600 I think), but changed to Goodyear Eagle NCT2s.
The Eagles certainly improved the handling, but it was never as bad as you
guys seem to have experienced.

Clive 

    Err...my Astra does that!  Even on level roads...
    
    
    mikef

    
    Are these Uniroyals directional by any chance ? putting one or more on
    the wrong side of the car might do that - it would make stopping a bit
    interesting too....
    
    G.

 I have Uniroyal Rallye ( 440 I think ) on my Renault 19 and have noticed no
discernable difference in the handling of the car from the Michelin MXV 2s that
were fitted origionally.

 I dont think the Uniroyals are directional.

 Barrie.

    Problem with comparing tyres on the same car is that you are replacing
    worn out tyres which have more than likely lost most of the grip and
    stability they had as new, with brand new tyres which are as good as
    they will ever be and are only going to deteriorate. 
    
    So matter how good your original tyre - it is quite easy to be
    convinced that whatever the new brand you've fitted to your car is
    better than the previous set, since you are effectively comparing old
    with new.
    
    On my Pug 205 GTI 1.9, I had Pirelli P600's on the front and rear,
    because of my 'enthusiastic' driving style the front tyres lasted
    14,000 miles where as the rears where still pristine. I replaced the
    fronts with Pirelli P5000's which I thought where amazingly good,
    much better than the P600's. It was only after a couple of weeks that I
    got bored and swapped the tyres round did I notice how much better the
    P600's actually were in comparison with the P5000's.
    
    Oh - the P5000's where directional, whereas I dont think the P600's
    where ( may be wrong ! )

Re: my real problem!

I don't think it's the car that's the problem (my previous car, a Rover 214, 
acted the same way on that stretch of road), I think it's just the comedy road 
layout!

Chris.

Maybe you'd better stick with moderating. Driving us up blind alleys 
doesn't do any of us any good :-))))))))))))))

Alan

    Well, mine's in the garage, they are going to do a full geometry check,
    so we will see what happens!
    
    Greg