Conference terri::cars_uk

    Just to brighten things up a bit more on Le Mans. During the christmas
    break I got the yearly copy of chequers travel bumf through. I as
    usual advertises Le Mans, and with it a covering letter. The covering
    letter states that Le Mans is on ,put your orders in now. 
    
    
    Garry

    
    And Chequers know something we don't?
    
    Anyone got any firm news on Le Mans? Ceefax is still carrying a
    calendar with a 24 hour race at Spa in late May/early June.
    
    Mark

   My understanding of the Le Mans situation from the most recent press
   coverage I have read is that as far as FISA are concerned there will 
   be NO Le Mans unless the "new" safety standards are implemented. 
   Local French politicians are very excited.

   I think that the Ceefax calendar is the latest version and from the
   three week gap between the dates of the proposed 24hr at Spa and the 
   next race (during which time Le Mans would be due to take place) FISA
   would seem to be doing their utmost to make a non-WSPC race at Le Mans 
   an impossibility.

    
    Le Mans has a reprieve. The traditional June date is to be held
    free by FISA (Aren't they kind) until the end of January. The ACO
    are expected to make an announcement on the future on the 10th of
    this month.

    The calendar NOW looks like this :-
    
    
    April 8 - Suzuka, Japan
    April 29 - Monza, Italy
    May 13 - Silverstone, GB
    June 3 - Spa, Belgium
    June 24 - Spain (presumably Jerez)
    July 22 - Dijon, France
    August 19 - Nurburgring, Germany
    September 2 - Donnington, GB
    September 23 - Canada (Montreal?)
    October 7 - USA (Road Atlanta?)
    October 21 - Mexico City, Mexico.
    
    All these races will be over 480 kms like last year. Sadly FISA's
    desire to rob the World Championships of interesting circuits which
    attract good crowds means that Brands Hatch is missing, but Silverstone
    is back which is at least easy to get to, if not worth going to!
    
    Expect the calendar to change repeatedly before the start of April,
    especially the Spanish race IF Le Mans is reinstated as it would
    be hard to imagine that many teams would bother with a race just
    1 week after Le Mans.
    
    Mark
    

   Isn't the Spa race going to be a 24hr thrash? Does this depend on Le
   Mans? 

   R. 

    Hi Richard,
    
    I've been extended here 'till end of June. Ya comin to visit?
    
    Colin

   Hi Colin,

   How's your transport these days. Last time we met you'd just lost an
   M3 and it hadn't been stolen :-) 

   I imagine I shall be taking in a few rounds of the championship
   this year.... Although at one time, when there was talk of 300km
   rounds and one driver, I wasn't thinking of venturing outside the UK.

   If the calendar stays like it is, I would hope to make Silverstone,
   (groan), Spa (where it will rain of course), Dijon (shall I bring the
   portaloo or will you?), Nurburgring and Donnington. But most of all
   I want Le Mans re-instated. 

   The way things are turning out I shall be watching fewer races. 
   The calendar this year is much tougher than last when there were only
   two rounds outside Europe. Even the races in Europe are further away.
   Monza's not exactly an easy drive for the weekend and I know from
   bitter experience that Jerez is about the last stop before eternity.

   And you? Any plans? You'll be in the right place if the Spa date stays 
   at June 3rd. 

   R.
   

   Jean-Marie Balestre announced yesterday that all discussions with the
   organisers of Le Mans (The Automobile Club De L'Ouest) about this
   years race have been stopped.

   He went on to say that negotiations will only be re-started when the 
   ACO officially withdraw the "defamatory statements about FISA".


   Obviously the truth hurts.....

>   Jean-Marie Balestre announced yesterday that all discussions with the
>   organisers of Le Mans (The Automobile Club De L'Ouest) about this
>   years race have been stopped.


I to think I had a late pass from the wife to go this year. JMB is ganging
up on me.

Paranoia <sp?> rules today 8-).
Dave

	I don't follow the WSC, so really don't know the detailed
	issues but would guess it's really a money/power struggle
	between the Le Mans people and FISA.

	However not being a follower means I can attempt an outsiders
	view.

	Le Mans is infinitely more well known and prestigious than
	the WSC. Hardly anyone knows what the latter is and practically
	everybody the former. Consequently I would have thought that
	the WSC needs Le Mans far more than vice versa. Hence I can't 
	see FISA winning this one.

	I would also agree that putting chicanes in the mulsanne is
	pointless and silly.

	-John

    
    What do you mean 'test the tyres' ?
    
    I know in the past there have been cases of tyres exploding on the
    Mulsanne through overheating, but how would a chicane (which would
    require braking and steering forces being put on the tyres as well
    as another set of acceleration forces) help that?
    
    Mark
        
    

   I think the friction in the tyre causes the heat build up. The higher
   the speed, the greater the friction, the greater the heat. 

   Putting the chicane into the Mulsanne won't reduce the maximum speed
   reached, but it will significantly reduce the average speed.
   A sustained burst of high speed would cause a much hotter tyre
   temperature than building up to high speed, slowing down, increasing
   speed and then again slowing down. 

   The Jags have temperature sensors on all wheels and big red warning
   lights come on if a certain temperature is exceeded.

    Well I really find all the drose that FISA are pushing out at the
    moment too much to consider. Someone earlier hit the nail on the
    head POWER AND MONEY, Probably Money first . You can BUY POWER 
    with money. The whole situation with Le Mans and Senna saga ,to
    me, show just what a plonker JMB is. Since when does JMB have the
    right to tell people what opinions they can have and what they can't.
    To my way of thinking Senna's statement to the effect "the 1989
    championship was fixed" unless that statement is true, in which
    case I can understand JMB wanting it withdrawn but surley it would
    be better done in private than in public. If it wasn't true I feel
    sure that JMB would be quick in making a reply discounting it. Unless
    I missed it ,I didn't see a press release in any of the motoring
    press outrightly saying , not true , no it wasn't. As for the Le
    Mans saga. I guess little needs saying about that in the light of
    the Senna saga. In all arguments there are 2 sides and things would'nt
    be normal if both sides gave the exact version of the story, but
    in amongst the smoke lies the truth. When both sides of the story
    seem to differ so much ,someone is telling porky pies. I'll leave
    that up to you to think on , I may get banned from going to watch
    motorsport for making my opinion public.

    On Teletex on saturday there was a quick bit from Ron Dennis saying
    that Senna would be racing this year but didn't give any deatils,I
    guess that the civil case that Mclaren are bringing against FISA
    , they expect to be a resounding success , dispite JMB pointing
    out quite graphicly that nobody has ever taken them to court and
    won. Isn't there some sort of saying that says ' there's a first
    time for everything'.

    
    
    The Bottom line has to be that age old saying "there's no smoke
    without fire" and "if you can't stand the heat , get out of the
    kitchen". Will JMB please get out the kitchen or change the menu.
    Is this the last dictator to take a fall ????? We can only hope
    That it happens sooner that later.
    
    
    Garry
    

Garry,

	I believe a committee makes the decisions, JMB is only the 
spokesperson.

Dave.

    
    Re .237
    
    I suppose you believe the same about the British government too
    , Dave?
    
    Mark :^)
    

    It's as maybe that world and his brother get a vote and that nice
    man is just the mouthpiece but, when the question is weighted in
    favour of the answer he wants or put in such a way the the answer
    is envitable who, says he's just a spokesperson. A reported rule
    that was agreed by committee was the mulsanne straight 2 km rule.
    The question put the the delegates ,according to autosport was
    something like " are you ( the delegates ) going to be responsible
    for an accident on the Mulsanne at Le Mans this year?" Not supprisingly
    all said no, would you accept resposibility. Nevertheless I don't
    care what his role is, He's the president , someone has to bear
    the pressure generated by Fisa ( Delegates or president ) rulings.
    If he can't take the heat he should get out or think twice before
    pursing Fisa's current issuses. If the fans go away, the money goes
    with it so who wins in the end . 
    
    
    Never if the field of motorised conflict, have so few ruined so much
    for so many.
    
    
    Garry
       

    re. some last:
    
    So, here comes a F1 driver who did get himself (and many others) off
    the track every other race, and the reason why he didn't win the
    championship is because it was fixed. Sure thing. Talk again about
    being unable to take the heat, etc... Senna should try next year to
    maybe see the final flag a bit more often, shouldn't he?
    
    On top of that, FISA is recommended to just shut up after such
    allegations, and it's FISA's duty to prove Senna is wrong? You must be
    joking? It's like the accused having to prove he's innocent. Strange
    concept, wouldn't you agree? Balestre or not: in NO national or
    international sport organisation that I know of such comments are left
    undisputed and without disciplinary action on the offender (see
    Maradona's fine because he said the WC draw fas fixed, which probably
    has more to it than Senna's allegations).
    
    On top, if Senna believes he's had and seen it all last year, with
    "whining" (or was that "winning"?) Prost as partner, he might just be
    out for some surprises with Berger.
    
    Adjustingly yours,
    
    Chris
    
    

	"Apparently the Automobile Club de L'Ouest [Le Mans organisers]
	regards itself as being 'beyond the jurisdiction of the FIA', and
	it is small wonder that many entrants are disgruntled, year after
	year, by petty decisions and curious interpretation of regulations".



	Familiar, maybe, but....



	This comes from Autosport, June 1962, and an editorial surrounding
	the way the Lotus'es were bannned. "I'll never go there again" -
	Colin Chapman - and he didn't.



	Incidentally what's FIA. I always say FISA, this being 'Federation
	Internationale Sport Automotive' (or it's french equiv).

	-John

   A report in today's Times:

   Jean-Marie Bal*sup has suggested that the French Government should
   pay for the modifications needed to make Le Mans a completely private
   circuit with no "public road" sections.


   Some a while back asked what the initials FIA stood for : well, I'm
   not sure of the French but the English translation is "International
   Automobile Federation". 

   I think the French might be "Federation International Automobiliste"?

   Richard.

    Forgive me for asking such a silly question, but what difference
    does making the track private make??????? Is there some difference
    between pubic and private straights?????
    
    
    Would it be unfair to assume that this is straight Fisa logic.
    
    
    Garry

    I lead to believe ( source unknown )  that Martin Brundle signed a
    full contract with TWR yesterday.
    
    
    Garry
    

    re 244   Yep got the same announcement from Tom W himself.
    
    re Balestre ... I'm starting to think that LeMans + Senna may be
    too much for him. They may be hope that the above combination will
    lead to farewell Mr JMB.

   I hope Brundle has signed for TWR - best news so far.

   On the Le Mans front : (from The Times)

   The ACO have capitulated to the demands of FISA and will build two
   chicanes into the Mulsanne straight. The ACO have announced that Le
   Mans will definitely take place on 16th/17th June.

   But the story is not over.... FISA representative Yvon Lyon (sp?)
   said that just because the ACO were building two chicanes, the
   licence would not necessarily be granted. (how petty can you get?).
   Competitors will be barred from competing until the licence is granted.

   Richard.

    re 246
    
    on ceefax last night it stated that Le Mans was cancelled, according to
    fisa. This was due to the ACO not appologising for the defanatory
    remarks made about the FISA and also that no assurances had been
    made to get two chicanes on the Mulsanne by June. 
    
    
    The other bit should be in 837 but it may just as well be here too.
    Again on ceefax according to FISA Mclaren have until today to
    pay Senna's $100,000 fine or be suspended from this years championship.
    The logic behind that is that the team are resposible for the drivers
    and if they get fined and don't pay up , the team have to.
    
    
    Garry
    

   Re .last

   The ACO made the "Le Mans ok" statement on Tuesday evening...
   FISA made the "race cancelled" statement in Paris yesterday....

   Aston Martin have disbanded their sportscar effort!

   They cited several reasons why they have decided not to continue
   their involvement in the coming year :

   1. They had no particular interest in participating in all rounds of
   the WSPC.

   2. Their main reason for entering the WSPC last year was because they
   wanted to take part in Le Mans. But when it was known that this years
   Le Mans would not be part of the WSPC they not to enter the
   championship but just enter Le Mans.

   3. Now Le Mans is very doubtful, they've decided to call it a day.

   4. Ford were known to be unenthusiastic about a direct Aston/Jaguar
   confrontation, but the Aston boss - whose money was paying for the
   team - said that Ford had no part in the descision. He said that if 
   agreement on Le Mans had been reached they would have participated.

   5. He also said their order books were full up till then end of 1992
   and didn't need the publicity. 

	And by the way they weren't going to win either!

	-John

    
    No, of course they weren't Jaguar were going to!
    
    And as if to prove it they won Daytona at the weekend!
    
    Mark

    They say a change is as good as a rest. It would appear that Jaguars
    change to BBS wheels and Goodyear Tires has had the required effect.
    
    Jaguars stormed home to finish in a commanding 1 2. The winner was
    driven by Jones, Lammers and Wallace while the second car driven by	
    Cobb, Brundle and Neilson finished some 4 laps behind.
    
    
    
    
    	Garry

Were the competition at Daytona - Sauber et al? 

    
    Nope, it's the IMSA championship.
    
    Competition includes Nissan (the front runners at the moment), Toyota,
    many of the Porsche teams seen in Group C plus some US based teams,
    Buick, and some other teams. At present Mercedes don't race in the
    US, but I suspect that that will change in time.
    
    Marrk

    Will sauber be able to keep up in IMSA?????? I'm not that familiar with
    all the rules with IMSA but I do know that there are engine size
    restriction, hence Jaguar only run a 6 litre engine and not 7. Maybe
    someone who knows can say if there is a turbo engine size restriction.  
    I personally don't think Sauber are so wonderfull, it took them long
    enough to get the engine and the car together, and in any case isn't
    using 5.0 litre twin turbo a bit like putting together a turbo charged
    GT40 , If you make the engine big enough it's bound to go fast. Before
    anyone says 'hey what about Jaguar then' , don't forget that turbo has
    a boost control and fuel injection you only get whats there. Next years
    WSPC will sort the men from the boys ,when you get 3.5 litres and thats
    it you can't put a turbo on to makeup for what the engine don't have. 
    
    
    Garry

   Congratulations to Jaguar ! Fabulous result.

   Some snippets:

   The lead Jaguar finished some four laps ahead of the second placed
   Jaguar. Porches finished 3rd,4th,5th and a Mercury Cougar 6th. The
   Jaguars were designated XJR-12s and ran with the 6 ltr n/a engine.

   TWR chose to run the 6 ltr in preference to the 3.0ltr turbo.

   The engine of the favoured Nissan blew after only 327 laps. 

   Derek Bell crashed out during the night - the car cartwheeled
   end over end but he escaped unhurt.

   (I think the IMSA restriction is 3.0 litres for turbos)

    Its off , Its on, Yes , No. According to a report on teletext last
    night FISA has resumed talks with the ACO with a view to putting on a
    championship race THIS YEAR. 
    
    
    
    Garry
    

    Yes, officially FIsA and ACO seem to be in agreement. The race will
    definitely take place this year. It will probably be part of the
    championship. 

    Which race? Not the incredibly, suicidally dangerous 24 hour 
    sportscar race?
    
    I won't be convinced either way until June 16th!
    
    Mark
    

    Would it be over stepping the mark in thinking that this sudden about turn
    is the result of a swift nudge in the flies with the rough end of a
    yard broom for that nice kind, understanding president of a well known
    international motor sport organisation by person or persons unknown. Or
    would it be that someone realized that this was not the way to promote
    group C, or just a straight forward sudden attack of guilt.
    
    
    Garry

This ACO/FISA show will run and run (maybe not this year - but continuing next
year) until FISA get a good share of the apple pie. Its all about money - 
forget the Mulsanne straight, its just a device.

   The FISA safety sub-committee will today inspect the plans for the
   chicanes in the Mulsanne. What chance it'll be cancelled again by
   tomorrow?

    My feeling is that Balestre showed this winter what will happen
    in the near future. He obviously was not too serious about Senna,
    McLaren, ACO this time. But the warning is clear : next time driver
    X will be banned, manufacturer Y entry will be refused, circuit
    Z will not be accepted. 
    
    On French TV recently Balestre was explaining that the whole auto 
    sport and F1 in particular were living in paradise an that in 
    football or tennis similar attitudes (to Senna, McLaren, ACO) 
    would trigger far more serious actions than what FISA was doing.
    
    On this last sentence I agree with JMB. Now, extending football rules
    to F1 may not be applicable.

I read in a Brit magazine last night that something called the World
Motor Sports Council had ruled that no circuit could have a straight
longer than 2km....hence the flap over Le Mans. Has that been mentioned
here? Did I miss it? Who are they and what os their relationship to
FISA etc.?

    I know this is past hstory but, re mercedes at daytona. The 5th place
    car was a MERCEDES COUGAR. 
    
    
    
    Garry

   re .last

   "The Times"  definitely said it was a Mercury Cougar....

   

   But who cares - Jaguar 1&2 and then the "also rans"....
    

    Ah!!!  I could swear that I read Mercedes but never to mind. If it was
    it just goes to show that without the 5.0 twin turbo (IMSA 3.0 turbo
    ???) brut force, it all falls a bit flat.
    
    
    
    Garry

    
    Certainly not a Sauber Mercedes anyway.
    
    I think it was a GTO class winning Mercury Cougar as well.
    
    Mark

	I'd suggest that the 'World Motor Sports Council' is an
	english description of FISA.

	-John

    
    I think it's a sub-group of FISA.
    
    Mark

    In the States we abbreviate Mecury, Merc. The same way in Europe
    Mercedes is abbreviated.

   Ok - tricky question time. I'd like to find out the postal addresses of 
   the following racing circuits (and organising clubs names) for the
   forthcoming WSPC rounds: 

   Monza - Italy
   Nurburgring - Germany
   Dijon - France
   Spa - Belgium
   Jarama - Spain
   Jerez - Spain

   Any help greatly appreciated.

    
    Got a Yellow book? That'll tell you.
    
    Unfortunately my newest one is now 7 years out of date, but I'm
    loathe to spend 32 quid on a new one!
    
    Mark

   Thanks Mark - hadn't thought of a yearbook - is it sold in ordinary
   bookshops like WH Smith,  or is it "specialist".

   Richard. 

    
    Smith's can order it for you, but like everything to do with FISA
    it's always out late! I did read somewhere that the latest issue
    was just arriving in the UK.
    
    Failing that I could bring in my old one, but the foreigners might
    change their addresses more than we do!
    
    Mark
    

    I saw one at a model shop over here in Atlanta, tha 1986 edition, for
    $38.  It's still sitting on the shelf in the store.  I'm not going to
    pay that much money for such a short book.  Wonder if Bernie had
    anything to do with designing the size....:-)
    
    Dave

    How about your friendly local public library? If they haven't got
    it, they can either get it lent by a library which has, or buy it
    themselves.
    
    Steve

    I have a ATLAS of the racing curcits of the world if anyone is
    intrested.
    
    Grant

    This is probably out of date now but, on Mobil Motorsport news on
    Eurosport there was mention of the resolve of the Le Mans saga. It
    appears that the safety council are off down to Le Mans to survey the
    site for the chicanes and then who knows. The ofter bit of information 
    , made less significant, was that the latest news was that Sauber are
    unlikly to enter Le Mans even if the race goes ahead, no other details.
    
    
    
    Garry
    

    
    A lot of teams have pulled out of this year's WSPC, at least in
    part, because of the FISA-ACO dispute.
    
    Aston are probably the most significant loss (they may not have
    won anything last year, but against the competition they had a
    pretty impressive first season), but Mazda have also withdrawn their
    works team (a loss if for no other reason than the fantastic noise
    they make! Anyone else remember the wail of the new car testing
    on the Le Mans airstrip on the Friday night before the race last
    year?) and a number of the privateer teams have also pulled out.
    
    The work's teams may be the excitement in the WSPC, but it'll look
    a very sparse field without these teams (including two Spice equipped
    teams). FISA seem to have shot themselves in the foot again!
    
    Mark

    Here's a quick run down of who has register for WSPC for this season.
    
    
    
    Team				Car			   No of Cars.
    ----                                ---                        -------
    Team Sauber Mercedes		5.0T Mercedes C9/C11	   2
    Silk Cut Jaguar			3.5T Jaguar XJR11	   2
    Nissan Motorsport			3.5T Nissan R90C	   1
    Toyota Team Toms			3.2T Toyota 90CV	   2
    Joest Porsche			3.0T Porsche 962	   3
    Brun Motorsport			3.0T Porsche 962	   3
    Equipe Almeras Freres		3.0T Porsche 962	   1
    Konrad Motorsport			3.0T Porsche 962	   1
    Obermaier Racing			3.0T Porsche 962	   2
    Porsche Kremer Racing		3.0T Porsche 962	   1
    Richard Lloyd Racing		3.0T Porsche 962	   1
    Swiss Team Salamin			3.0T Porsche 962	   1
    Team Davey				3.0T Porsche 962	   2
    Courage Competition			3.0T Courage/Porsche C24S  2
    Spice Engineering			3.5  Spice-Cosworth SE90C  2
    Chamerlain Engineering		3.5  Spice-Cosworth SE89C  2
    Alba Formula Team			3.5  Alba-Subaru AR10	   1
    The Berkeley Team London		3.5  Spice-Cosworth SE89c  1
    GP Motorsport			3.5  Spice-Cosworth SE90C  1
    Louis Descartes			3.5  ALD-Cosworth	   1
    
    
    As aready mentioned Mazda and Aston Martin have pulled out. Other teams
    that had been expected to enter ,PC Automotive and Team Mako. All 4
    teams have cited the uncertainty with the Le Mans situation being the
    reason for then not entering. 
    
    
    Peugeot Last week announced thier intention to make a hit on the WSPC
    with a new car ( presumably not WM ) . It sounded like a completely
    a new car. 
    
    
    
    Garry
    

    
    Anyone else think that the new Peugeot owes more than a bit to the
    WM-Peugeots raced at Le Mans?  The front especially is highly
    reminiscent of those cars.
    
    Le Mans is now (after much bowing and scraping by the ACO - 'We think
    JMB is a lovely person, and makes Mother Theresa look like a selfish
    sadist'!) back on. It still isn't clear if the race will be a round
    of the WSPC or not. My guess is it will be so that FISA can spite
    those teams who want to do Le Mans, but gave up on the WSPC as a
    whole.
    
    Meanwhile, Onyx's fat tramp owner has stated that he wants 'nothing
    to do with Balestre with his Nazi past' and that 'Balestre was 
    elected democratically like Hitler'! I hope he's got his cheque
    book open!
    
    Mark

>    Meanwhile, Onyx's fat tramp owner has stated that he wants 'nothing
>    to do with Balestre with his Nazi past' and that 'Balestre was 
>    elected democratically like Hitler'! I hope he's got his cheque
>    book open!

	Oh my gaaawd !, did he he really say that. Well that's Onyx out
	of the WSPC and every other FISA controlled series. That kind
	of comment will cost a visit to the Vatican for absolution, a 
	public apology over every major TV network in the world and 
	a mega-buck contribution to the FISA presidential retirement fund.

	He'll have to have nore than his cheque book open !

	Gordon

RE: -.1,-.2

And you'll NEVER guess who the most prominent person on the podium during
the TV clip I saw of the Peugeot presentation was....

Here's a few clues:

It wasn't a director of Peugeot.
It wasn't the director of Peugeot Sports.
It wasn't the engine designer
It wasn't the chassis designer.

    re-1
    
    JMB!!

    Grant

    In that case re:-2 you missed
    
    He dosn't know anything about sports car racing.
    He's not of sound mind.
    He's not normal.
    
    Possibly even :-
    
    	He is an overweight,garlic eating,spitefull dictator
    
    			or simply
    
    
    	A nasty fat smelly french hitler.

    On monday nights BBC World Service Sports Special, the subject of Le
    Mans was discussed. By making the event non-championship, it seems that 
    FISA is putting the squeeze on the smaller teams who are now faced with
    a 24hour race one week before a round of the championship. As one team
    manager said, it's alright for Jaguar who have sprint and 24 hour cars,
    but ours have to do both. Will the smaller teams be able to do both, or
    will they be forced to stick with Championship races? Thoughts anyone?
    

    
    Monsieur, if you ever call me an overweight, garlic eating thung
    again I will personally insurt le yellow burk into yur derriere.
    
    You are suspended frum le uk_cars, ( it this should be culled le
    Francais_cars) until a full apology is furthecomeing .
    
    J. M. B.
    

    re .282
    
    This info has been relayed by the french newspapers too. JPVR has
    declared all this, in flemish (his mother tongue) about 10 days
    ago on the belgian TV - on prime time - He really said that he would
    not show up to any F1 race while JMB is president.
                                                       
    I wonder what is going to happen to Moneytron Onyx. If nothing happens
    should we say that JMB has got something against MM Dennis and Senna?

It's on , that's official. According to Autosport this week FISA confirm that 
that they have visited Le Sarthe and ok's the planned circuit changes. The
Man himself stated to Autosport last week "Now we are waiting for the work 
on the chicanes. If the result is good we mus replace Le Mans into the 
international Calender. After that , we must discuss on March 14 if it is in
the world championship or not".


There is a down side, fisa this week said that it was going to be a non
championship race. I guess that is just Fisa making a point. Nevertheless
, the ground requried for the chicanes has already be secured and work starts
on 1 march. That give the ACO a month and a half to get the job done and the 
modifications approved before mid april whenit must be done. 

Mercedes have stated that they will not race at Le Mans if it is non 
championship . 

Johnathan Palmer has been testing a factory Porsche.


Kremer have a composite 962 chassis for this season. 


The Race calender has changed:-


	April 9 	Suzuka
	April 29	Monza
	May 20		Silverstone
	June 3		Spa


******	JUNE 16/17      LE MANS  **********

	July 1		Jarama/Jerez
	July 22		Dijon
	August 19	Nurburgring
	September 2	Donnington
	September 23    Montreal
	October 7	Mexico City


And last but not least , The Peugeot looks a whole lot like the
WM , slight change of shape and colour. It's got a 3.5 V10
	


Garry (banned)

    
    Well as I leave I'll enter a final note about Group C.
    
    1990 is going to be a great year (especially if Le Mans IS a WSPC
    round), and I'll be trekking up to Silverstone (crap circuit though
    it is) and I might even get to Donnington (finance permitting :^)).
    
    Le Mans is a definite, but I'll have to give Spa a miss again.
    
    Forecast? Well I reckon Nissan will win at least one race this year,
    and that Jaguar will bounce back after last year's disaster to be
    World Champions again (I can hope).  Mercedes will again be strong,
    but they won't have it all there own way, and after last year's 
    beginners luck (:^)) won't come anywhere near winning Le Mans this
    year (unless it's a championship round!! :^)).
    
    Enjoy your racing all.
    
    Mark 

    
    Mercedes have announced that they won't be taking part at Le Mans this
    year. 

    Well I've taken the plunge, today I ordered the Le Mans Tickets from 
    chequers. Gone the whole hog and got pit balconey tickets. Who else
    am I going to bump into at Le Mans or is this too early for a definate
    move on the ticket front.
    
    
    	Ps. They claim to refund if in the end it all goes nasty and the 
    	    race ends up being off.
    
    
    	GARRY

    
           
    
    I hear TWR have a V12 3.5 litre that can be Jaguars' just as soon
    as Sir John Egan or his puppet replacement from Ford sign the cheque.... 

    Sniffer.
    

    I read in Fast Lane that TWR are thinking of selling 35 Group C
    Jaguars as ROAD LEGAL CARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    �800,000 a car!!!!!!!!!
    
    Grant

    Sound's a over the top to me , expensive, would need virtually
    redeveloping. That rumour can't have much depth, although the car has
    the right lights would it all conform to con and use regs????? 
    I guess that you could go on and on with surelly this won't be legall 
    and that would need changing. Very ambitious.
    
    
    Garry

    According to Autosport this week the farsical motorsport people have
    confirmed that Le Mans will go ahead as a nonchampionship race subject
    to the track modifications being completed on the Hunaudieres straight
    before the mandatory inspection of the circuit in april. A small b&w 
    picture shows that the work upto that point is quite extensive and      
    ACO have again guaranteed that the work will be done on time.
    
    
    
    
    GARRY

    FISA have also extended the use of turbos for an extra year.
    
    Full details in Motoring News.
    
    I bet Spice are peeved.
    
    Ian.

    Yes, that was also reported in autosport . However it suggested that
    there would be a but, reading between the lines it was suggesting that
    the but would be to make the turbo a less favourable option. There were
    not suggestions as to what the but would be but, I can only assume that
    it would be something like F1 with a fuel penalty for the cars running
    turbos.
    
    
    Not only but also a bit about the world's most popular president, I
    wonder who that could be?? The FIA had its spring/whatever meeting, and
    from the little bit I read ( Jees that man make me wanna puke) it would
    appear that the FIA fully support his action in the closed season
    ( Le Mans & Senna ) and disproved the long established fact that sun 
    rises in the east and sets in the west , it would appear that it now 
    shines from a part of JMB's anatomy.
    
    
    	Garry

    Well folks round one is not far away , Haven't seen the runners and
    riders for Sundays race but I guess that your Nissans and Toyotas will
    be fancied on home ground. Jaguar seemed to be fairly pleased with the
    testing that they have done at the Suzuka circuit and seem to think
    that are in with a shout with the XJR11 , although the official 1990
    XJR11 will not be out to play for real until Monza ( end of the month
    ). Mercedes will be running all sorts of things , or at lease that was
    indicated by a Mercedes bod in an interview at the Zurich motor show.
    It sounded like they will be running the new chassis and maybe a 3.5
    job too, that was a bit scratchy.
    
    
    The other main topic coming up soon, Le Mans. I noticed tucked into a
    little corner in autosport last week, that Mazdaspeed have indicated
    that they are going to field a team as the race is a non championship
    round. Le Mans wouldn't be Le Mans without the Screeming Mazda's on the
    track or the odd spot of last minute testing on the airfield late
    Friday night.
    
    
    Garry

    Finishing off reading throught the small article in autosport I noticed
    that Mercedes have changed tyres for this season. Mercedes have gone to
    Goodyear , one of the porsche teams have picked up the Michelins and
    the rest of the teams seem to be staying with tyres they had last year.
    I looks like Dunlop are loosing customers although Nissan are still on 
    dunlops.
    
    
    Garry
    

    
    
    Jaguar have gone to Goodyear as well......
    
    Mercedes having been knocking down the WSPC lap record at Monza
    - they reduced it by 3 seconds during practice and rumour has it
    that was on race tyres!  The C11 must be good.

    Suzuka at the weekend....
    
    I predict (sadly) an easy win for Mercedes, probably followed home
    by Merc jnr, Nissan, Joest Porsche and hopefully an XJR-11. 
    
    Driver.

I saw Mauro Baldi waxing lyrical about the Merc. He said that outwardly it
looked similar but that really it was like a new car because so much had
changed. He was particularly impressed with suspension modifications.

Hey, Rupert Murdoch does have his uses - I get Grand Prix's piped in "live",
full coverage of Group C, German Touring Car, UK Touring Cars, World
Championship Rallying, various US races and motor racing bulletins. Shame
that they show each program 10 times though.

    Well the start of the season, no big supprise. Mercedes won , Jaguar
    blew out. Not sure of the result passed the winner only looked very
    quickly at the result. Jaguar were 2nd until lap 77 when it is
    suspected that the turbo threw an fit. The other Jaguar retired much
    earlier with what was also suspected as a turbo failure. Is this season
    going to be another silly season????
    
    
    
    Garry 

               
    Silly season has certainly started....
    
    Result was, I think: 
    
    Mercedes (Schlesser)
    Mercedes (Mass)
    Nissan
    Toyota
    Porsche
           
    Schlesser raced in the C9 coz he crashed the C11 in practice, he
    still won by over a minute so one is tempted to wonder what would
    have happened if he'd had the C11. One has to be thankful for small
    mercies.
    
    With that sort of form, I'm grateful the Mercs aren't competing at 
    Le Mans.  

    

    The oil pumps blew on both Jags ; the Brundle car was leading with 5
    laps to go when its went!!
    
    Colin

    I see that Mercedes are trying to capitalise on the world championship
    win last year. I was on ITV last night and advert for merc saying that
    this wonderfull car was based around a production  engine that is in
    whatever the car they showed was . Unless I missed it they never
    mention  the fact that the C9 was the sledge hanger to crack the nut
    with the 5 litre twin turbo and the fact that the nornal road car
    dosn't even get a sniff of a turbo.
    
    
    
    Not impressed , wouldn't buy one
    
    
    Garry

    
    
    The car they show when talking about the engine is the 500SE. To
    be fair to them, except for the turbos it is a standard engine
    even down to the crankshaft.
    
    Still, I'm no lover of Mercedes, so I'm happy to agree that not
    mentioning the turbos is taking a liberty.  
                                              
    
    But, I won't complain to the ASA if they give me a new 500SL.
     

    
    
    The Silverstone WSPC race ticket details:
    
              General Enclosure     Centre Transfer     Grandstands          
               
    Saturday, �8                        �5               Free
    Sunday    �15                       �10              �10-15
    
     
    Only the first 2000 Centre Transfer tickets sold will admit
    the holder to the Pits Walkabout on Sunday. Silverstone have
    said they expect to sell these first 2000 by the end of the
    week.
    
    No details of weekend tickets or camping etc.
    
    Postal bookings close on the 10th May.
    
    Telephone bookings on 0327-857273

    Geez, you can tell that FISA have got thier teeth into WSPC for sure.
    From memory the last couple of meetings that I have been to in the UK
    centre transfer has been a couple of quid. #10 to go and look at the
    cars and maybe get some autographs ,talk to the odd driver, whatever
    people do when they go pit walkabout is quite simply taking the pee.
    I can't remember for sure the cost last time I went pit walkabout but
    nevertheless 10 quid has to be a 3 or 400 percent increase. Are the
    ticket prices the price on the day or the early booking price??? Even
    the entry fee has gone up 3 quid . 
    
    
    
    
    Garry

                           
    
    Early booking prices - it will cost more on the day!

    Damed liberty. That is just another case of screw the punters coz
    they'll pay that kind of money. Next weekend at Silverstone there is a
    Firestone Race day , Formula Renault, Firestone prduction Saloon Car
    etc. The entrance price is #5 and the centre transfer is #1.50. A
    bloody big difference to #10. The only reason I can think that the cost
    is going up is to do with the per capita payment to the RACMSA and FIA.
    I cannot remember the in's and out's of the per capita and what this
    cost is but I remember reading , may have been in autosport or the
    RACMSA year book, if not it must have been in  Karting
    magazine. I realize that this is getting abit off the beaten track but
    the nuts and bolts of it were that the cost for a driver  used to be
    sensible amount the cost has doubled or more , have they hit the
    circuits too and in turn the punters get it passed on.
    
    
    Garry

    
    
    
    April 8th    Suzuka
    April 29th   Monza
    May 13th     Silverstone
    June 3rd     Spa
    June 16/17   Le Mans (not championship, but who cares)
    June 24th    Jarama
    July 22nd    Dijon
    August 19th  Nurburgring
    Sept 2nd     Donnington
    Sept 23rd    Canada
    October 7th  TBN - USA
    October 21st Mexico City
    
    
    

Rich,

Silverstone is on MAY 20th

Ian. c u there

    On Ceefax last night there was a bit about Jaguar at monza. Martin
    Brundle was saying that the team were hopfull with the car and hoped
    that the oil pump problem was resolved. We'll have to wait and see.
    
    
    
    Garry

    
    
    Lets hope so. I think they get a new gearbox for this race as well?
    
    Anyway, another prediction:
    
    Mercedes 
    Mercedes
    Porsche - Joest
    Nissan
    Toyota
    Jaguar   
    
    Wish I was going to be there.....
    

    Very brief results, I looked V. late last night just before ceefax
    shutdown. From the times and laps it looked as thought it might have
    been  a good race. The first 3 cars were on the same lap and the times
    wern't that far apart.
    
    	1. Mercedes    Schlesser/Baldi             83 laps.
    	2. Mercedes    Mass/?
    	3. Jaguar      Brundle/Ferte
    	4. Jaguar      Lammers/Wallace             82 laps

    
    
    Yup, Ceefax says it was a great race, both Mass and Lammers started
    from the back of the field after being involved in an accident 
    going into the first corner. After changing nose cones they were
    30th and 31st. But overtook all to finish 2nd and 4th respectively.
    
    The Schlesser/Baldi Mercedes and the Brundle/Ferte Jaguar were front
    runners the whole race, Brundle being overtaken on the last lap
    by Mass, as his Jaguar was running short of fuel. At least two
    of the first four ran out of fuel on the slowing down lap.

    I think the Nissan was 5th. The Wayne Taylor Spice was 6th, which
    is a fantastic result on a fast circuit like Monza.    
    
    Both the Toyotas crashed, Dumries spectacularly, during practice.
    No Toyotas finished in the top 10.

    Looks promising for Silverstone on the 20th. 
    
    Richard.
    

    Looks like the opinion that Brundle put over on ceefax last week was
    well founded. I'm really pleased to se Jaguar getting back in there and
    giving the silver arrows a run for their money. When I was speaking to
    Andy Wallace late'ish last year he was optimistic then about this year
    ,at that point they had really only had a good trash round with eagles.
    I hope that Silverstone is as good as Monza. I wonder if Sauber will
    find it a little bit tougher going this year. I also wonder if Jaguar
    will have a repleat of 88. They've won Daytona, Ok not done wonderfull
    in Wspc so far ,but not to shabby, I guess they have got to be a fair
    bet at Le Mans next to Joest.
    
    
    
    Garry

    Well here's the bad news about next weekend at Silverstone. Much as I
    dislike the circuit this likly to do nothing to improve the situation.
    Not sure who but someone put the prices for the weekend in sometime
    ago. Well it looks like they've changed. Here we go with the prices.
    
    
    	Saturday is #10 to get in and #5 centre transfer. They've been
    	extra nice and th granstands are free. I can remember the last 
    	sportscar meeting at silverstone they were free on race day.
    
    	And the really shocking news race day entrance to the circuit is
    	#20 and centre transfer #10 ( as already stated ). Grandstand
    	seats are #10,#12,#15.
    
    
    	If prices keep going up at silverstone like this it'll be that last
    	race I go to there, I just wonder what the price will be in
    	september at donnington. I personally think the price is far too
    	high, #12 was enough, the race is shorter for a start off. Its not
    	as if there is a great deal of expense, They own the track, no fees
    	to pay there, the teams must pay an entry fee to the circuit, money
    	coming in, no fees for marshalls. Who's got enough land to build a
    	circuit ?? this is a good money spinner as far as I can see.
    
    
    	Garry ( Who only pays #15 per day to practice on a circuit)
    

    
    
>>    	Garry ( Who only pays #15 per day to practice on a circuit)
    
    
        Which circuit is this? - _what_ can you take there? 
    
        Elaine

    Ah !
    
    	I think I have a wee idea why you ask and the answer is no!!
    	Lucky for me but unlucky for you its Rye House Kart circuit.
    
    	The name should answer the rest 
    
    	Garry

    
    re -1,
    
    Thanks, - I had my suspisions that it might not be for cars :-)
    
    Elaine

    Well, what a race. Forget all the pre-race goings on with mercedes.
    They don't write the rules for the big teams ignore to. It's tough. 
    
    For those not present Jaguar 1 - 2 with spice in 3rd. The 2 spice cars
    were going like stink. Very impressive. The merc just clapped out. 
    
    A long awaited result for Jaguar and maybe the break in mercedes armour 
    required.
    
    
    Garry
    
    

    
    
    
    Yup - Brilliant result, great race.

    
    Roll on Le Mans.

    With regard to Le Mans the runners an riders were listed in autosport
    last week. Jaguar are running the XJR12, this is basiclly the chassis
    that won Daytona but in group c trim with the 7.0 litre V12. There are
    still a few riders that have not been named but they seem to be
    trickling through now.
    
    
    Last night on Ceefax , Mazda have name Stephan Johansson as a driver
    in one of 787 mazda's and I think it was Mazda have named Jacky IIckx
    as a consultant team manager.
    
    Now to put the cat amongst the pigeons can I pose the question who is
    going to win???? My thoughts on the subject are that Mercedes will not
    win, Jaguar have got to be in with a very good shout, having won ,
    Joest have also got to be in with a shout and the rest must rate as
    also rans. Teams like Nissan and Toyota I think will be on the
    pace early on but will they Last?. Nissan's drivers have a habit of
    breaking the car or worst still they run out of petrol or just plain
    give up the ghost. Toyota either blow up or the right 'orrable Earl
    will bend it to make sure.
    
    
    Garry
    

    
        
    I agree with Garry - I don't think the Mercs will win either :-):-)
    
    It'll be tough to bet against the Wolleck/Stuck/Bell Joest Porsche
    both because of the experience of the drivers and because Joest
    have a good record at Le Mans.

    I don't think either the Nissans or the Toyotas will be posing much
    of a threat after midnight. I expect the Nissans to last longer
    than the Toyotas but driver reliability, engine problems and fuel
    consumption worries will probably be enough to end their races long
    before 16:00 hrs on the Sunday.
    
    Jaguar must reckon on a good showing. Having won Daytona, fitted
    an improved gearbox (which hopefully won't break - unlike last year)
    and having a well tried and tested car they could well finish with
    two of the top four places?
    
    Simply becuase of the number of Porsches participating, it won't
    be a suprise if they also pick up places.
    
    
    I wonder if JMB will get any complimentary tickets this year?

    

Here's that latest from the world of sportscar racing and in particular to 
do with the runners and riders at Le Mans.


	Jacques Laffite has been offer a drive with Joest but as yet 
	has not commited to drive. He has already commited to 
	drive for BMW in a touring car race the same weekend
	as Le Mans. It looks more likly that Ligier driver
	Phillipe Alliot will take the seat and partner Bob
	Wolleck and Johnathan Palmer in the Joest.


	Jacky Ickx is confimed as the consultant team
	manager for Mazda at Le Mans.


	Touring car driver Jerry Mahony looks set to
	drive the ADA at Le Mans.


	Paul Stott who drove for Team Davey at Silverstone 
	has been talking to Richard LLoyd and may partner
	James Weaver in the RLR at Le Mans.


	And last but not least. Tim Harvey will not be driving 
	the works spice at Le Mans although Firmin Velez has
	confirmed he will be driving.
    
    
    
    	Garry

    
    Here we go again ........
    
    OK, who's coming this weekend?????
    
    Where are we meeting?????
    
    Got some spare beds in Brussels if anybody wants one. (1 hours drive)
    
    Any takers?????

    
    
    
    Unfortunately, for the first time in three years I won't be going to 
    Spa. The effects of this will probably be, it won't rain and Jaguar
    will win.
    
    Prediction: Jaguar, Mercedes, Mercedes, Jaguar, Spice, Joest Porsche.
                   
    
    Le Mans meet?  Champagne Umbrella: Sat, @23:00hrs?
    
    

    
    I guess I'll be supporting Porsche as usual, even though they're
    probably not in with a chance.
    
    Should be an interesting Jag/Merc dice though.
    
    Wish Porsche would bring their 1992 program forward .....

    Well yet another race over and another Mercedes win. I only know what
    was on ceefax so here's the results.
    
    
    	1	Mass/Wendlinger		Sauber Mercedes	2:42.54
    	2	Wallace/Lammers		Jaguar		2:44.25
    	3	Baily/Acheson		Nissan		2.44.51
    	4	Harvey/Velez		Spice		69 Laps
    	5	Larrauri/Hugsman	Porsche		69 Laps
    	6	Reuter/Andskar		Porsche		69 Laps
    
    
    	Fastest lap went to Schlesser at 2.06.11 mins
    
    	I have no idea what happened to the 2nd Sauber and Jaguar 
    	but looking at the times between sauber and Jaguar it looks to
    	me to have been fairly close and the spice again getting up there.
    	Did anyone go?? does anyone know the missing bits.
    
    
    
    	Teams championship points
    
    	1	Sauber		27
    	2 	Jaguar		19
    	=3	Nissan/Spice	 8
    
    
    	Drivers championship
    	
    	Mass/Wendinger		21
    	Schlesser/Bald		18
    	Wallance/Lammers	15
    	Brundle/Ferte		13
    
    
    
    	Next stop Le Mans - its only a week and a bit before practice
    	starts.
    
    
    	Garry

Rich,

You will be pleased to hear it rained at Spa.

Ceefax didn't say if they opened the toilets before 13:00 this year :-)

Ian.

    Not having never been to spa, the loo's bit missed me. Is the situation
    anything like at Le Mans?????
    
    As for the rain, when was the last dry race at spa???? The rain must be
    pre-requisite.
    
    Garry

    
    �The loo bit missed me....
    
    Yeah - it missed us to. Last year, on the Saturday at Spa they didn't
    open any of the toilets 'till 13:00. Still Ian, even though we didn't
    go the weather and result were the same...
    
    
    A few other bits I've heard/read...
    
    The Brundle Jaguar was in the lead (90 secs) over the Mass Mercedes
    until the Jaguar was forced to retire when the electrical system
    burnt out.
    
    The Spice of Tim Harvey and Fermin Velez started 21st on the grid
    and finished 4th.
    
    Oscar Laurrari/Harold Huysman Porsche was 5th.
    
    Andskar/Reuter Porsche was 6th.
    
    

    
    Richard, it wasn't wet last year was it, at least not for the race?
    
    For the weekend befores lasts Ferrari meet, it was even sunny.
    
    
    But last weekend for the group C race, miserable, wet, windy and cold!
    I'm still shivering .....
    
    So who's going to Lemons?

    I'm going:-
    
    	3.30 on thursday from Pompey travelling in a mustard coloured 
    	range rover gym ???w.
    
    	Camping in Maison Blanc trackside site in a trailer tent.
    
    	going down the hypermarket friday for the beers.
    
    
    	
    	Garry
    
    	

    Here's one for the melting pot. The Le Mans ticket in 88 had a Jaguar
    on it , they won. The 89 ticket had a merc on it and they won and this
    years ticket has a Nissan on it , that has got to be pushing it a bit.
    
    
    
    Garry
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    A thought...
    
    last year, after the race, wasn't there the rumour that a french
    manufacturer was going to re-enter Group C racing ?
    
    The name Peugeot leaps at me, but as a lot of time was spent at
    the Mercier stand last year this could all have been an alchoholic
    blur ?
    
    AMS
    
    p.s. sadly missing Le Mans this year, wouldn't have been the same
    driving 'up' the country anyway. Half the fun was the journey to
    and from the race rubber-necking all the cars on the road between
    the course and the port.

Re: -.1  See note 957 for detail

    
    Help requested --- have just been conned into taking my sons to
    Le Mans.
    
    Currently booked out Portsmouth/St.Malo Fri night, arrive 0930 hrs.
    Returning Cherbourg/Poole Mon am, dep 0730hrs.
    
    Anyone know :-
    
    	a. what the various admission tickets cover, eg Welcome, General
           etc                    
    
    	b. do we need to find some secret route to avoid being in traffic
    	   jams until halfway through the race?
           
    	c. is there a best entrance to avoid/minimise jams?
    
        d. anywhere best for camping, or do you just stay awake all
    	   night? 
    
    	e. any preferred spots for photography (have a full set of lenses
    	   up to 300mm)?
    
    	f. any important tips for a first-timer?           
    
    Still not sure of my sons motives - at 21 & 26, think they are mainly
    interested in weak French beer & strong women - any nationality.
    They've never shown any serious interest in motor sport 'til now,
    so could be a fraught few days ........
    
    Would it be worth gaining time by going out on Friday early morning
    over Dover? I've testing all alternatives further west, but no space
    available out of anywhere. How long to drive Bolounge/Le Mans on
    Friday? Come to that, how long St.Malo/LM on Saturday?
    
    Any hints & tips much appreciated,
    
    Thanks
    	

    Check out topics, 58,522,865 and 1016. They have specifics on Le Mans.
    
    For my two-penn'th
    
    Arriving 09:30 you should be ok to get to Le Mans by midday. I've
    always driven from the North (Cherbourg and Caen) but it looks as
    if you'll approach from the west. Can't give much info but expect
    heavy traffic approaching the track.
    
    Buy you tickets at the roadside boots you should find on your way
    into Le Mans. Type to get are "Tribune" - I think (?) This should
    give you access to the main stand area by the start/finish and also
    the Fairground area, past the Dunlop bridge. Also they give you
    access to the spectator area above the pits , after 18:00 on Saturday.
    
    Try to get into the large car-park between the airstrip and the
    race track. The past two years this has been 50f for the whole weekend.
    If you've got a 'pup' tent take it. They don't mind you putting
    those up overnight in the car-park. But don't bother with a major
    12 man frame tent 'cos these have to go into camping areas - costs
    extra, *if*you can get in. Personally I've always slept behind my
    car on a ground sheet.
    
    Best places for photos - If you've got a small step-ladder and don't
    mind carrying it about then take it. There is wire-mesh catchment
    fence around most of the track, plus they are putting more, and
    more concrete barriers around. (Best results I've seen were taken
    with a 400mm lens, but I got some good shots with a 200MM so your
    300mm should do the trick.) Take some very fast film (1200 asa)
    for twilight shots. 
    Locations  1. In  the fairground area, on the downhill section from 
    the Dunlop bridge. The S-bend at the bottom of this section is very 
    good for night-shots, look *into* the wheels and try and capture the
    brake discs glowing red-hot. 
               2. Good for night shots too, when everyone is sleeping,
    drinking,partying (horrible americanism but describes the activities) 
    go to the terrace over the Pits for shots of crews working on cars, 
    also go to the terracing opposite the pits for same sort of thing.
               3. Mulsanne corner. You need extra tickets for this,
    but this is the corner at the end of the Mulsanne straight. You
    can't see the Mulsanne straight at all - no official specator areas
    - so this is the closest you can get. You get good shots of cars
    braking hard, lots of turbo-flameouts from Nissans and Mazda's.
    Also this is where the drivers get their pit signals so good for
    activity shots.
              4. If you brought your stepladder - the esses, just before
    the start/finish straight. Cars are quite slow through here so you
    get the chance to photograph them.
    
    Tips for 1st timer - Get all your picnic stuff (Beers) in a hypermarket
    before you get into Le Mans. Plan on being in the track area the
    whole time, trying to get between the track and the town is a dag.
    You can get food, and drink all around the track so don't feel you
    have bring your own, it's cheaper obviously but then you have to
    carry it around. Go to the Mercier stand on the paddock side of
    the track, and buy by the bottle. Have one for me 'cos I can't get
    there this year. 
    
    Most important tip - There are no 'facilities' so avoid your high-fibre
    diet ! Seriously, there are a few porta-loo's around the track and
    under main stand, but nowhere near enough to cope, so beware.
    
    Enjoy.
    
    
    AMS
    
    

    
>>        Buy you tickets at the roadside boots 
    
    s/be
    
    	Buy your tickets at the roadside booths
    
    AMS

    
    Thanks for the speed of reply - all good stuff. Would have forgotten 
    the stepladder -- very useful tip!
    
    Will imbibe a glass in your honour,
    
    Many thanks
    
    Colin

    Here's my threpence worth.
    
    Quick correction on the tickets.
    
    Tribune ticket gets you into the main spectator areas around the 
    start/finish line. Thats it . I think I'm right in saying that 
    its does not even get you down to Tetra rouge.
    
    The best ticket to get is the general entry ticket. Its by far the best
    value, it gets you into all the genral spactator areas in every public
    view point on the circuit. It does not however get you into the 
    spectator areas above the pits. Thats a seperate ticket. The cost of a 
    general entry ticket costs about #30 ( baring in mind that silverstone
    was #20).
    
    Additional tickets cost less, I think the pits ticket is about 20 but
    you need a general entry ticket to complement that. I personally have
    bought all mine via Chequers Travel, Its a bit more expensive but your
    certain to get what you want. I payed #53 for a general entry and pits
    ticket. Comparing that with the price of a ticket for a grandstand
    ticket at the british GP at silverstone even that is very reasonable.
    
    As for the journey, I have traveled from Caen and by train. The Journey 
    from Caen is very easy N158 and the cut on to the N138, Mulsanne
    straight here we come. St Malo looks is to be a fairly easy journey,
    but to get near the track saturday morning is the same as any circuit
    on a major race day.
    
    Other little do's and don't.
    
    Unless you really want to ,don't bother to go to Mulsanne corner. You
    can't see much , the cars are moving slow and its not really worth the
    effort. Most of all you can't see the cars at full tilt, they are
    probably moving faster down the pits straight or at esses. Do get near
    the finish line at the end , its a fantastic feeling being there when
    the winner comes over the line, especially if its a Jaguar. Its
    incredible if jaguar win , the french love it , the british go mad ,its
    brilliant. I can speak from the experiance of Jaguar winning in 88.
    Probably the 2nd most inportant thing , have a radio or a radio hat
    tuned into 100.6 Fm , Radio Le Mans. It's an english language radio
    station that gives a comentary, race updates and just about anything
    you want to know about who's doing what, who's winning , who's off etc.
    
    
    Have a great time.
    
    
    Garry

    
    So is it to be the Champagne Umbrella Sat @23:00?
    
    Pink Carnation? Orange Manual? Porsche T-shirt? Jaguar Mascot?
    
    Hands up who's going?

    Yep ,
    	
    	count me in , its got to be the orange manual, everyone has got one
    of those spare. I will be with 3 other non decies but will have either a
    silk cut Jaguar flag or an enormous green Jaguar flag or failing that
    if anyone is in the Maison Blanche camp site , look for a mustard Range
    Rover GYM 649W and a brown and white trailer tent. We're be getting the
    beers in friday so drop in (if we'er there that is. 
    
    Cheers and beers
    
    Garry

    
    OK, add me +2 (assuming I can drag them from the bar).
    
    Don't own an orange manual - will bring a suitable DEC logo & will
    wear a Classic Bike baseball hat ...........
         
    Thanx for the useful clues,
    
    Colin
    

    Another thing that is of great value is a clear plastic ticket holder 
    so that you can put the thingie round your neck and pop all the tickets 
    in it. Take it from me , if you have a general ticket , you will be
    collecting tickets and disposing of them every time you go from 1
    encloure to another.
    
    
    Garry

    
    Thanks for all the advice. Now travelling Fri 0900 ex Dover, returning
    Mon 1030 ex Calais.
    
    Last question - Where's the Champagne Umbrella, so I can buy my round?
    
    Colin

    
    You've missed your chance. Leaving @ 0500hrs tomorrow, so off to
    pack. Don't know where Champagne Umbrella is, so will have to rely
    on discovery learning .........
    
    All of you have a safe trip - see you at the circuit.
    
    Colin

    
    Richard,
    
    Seems we missed Colin, but I'm sure he'll find it, I presume you mean
    the Champagne Umbrella just near where Derek Bell went on fire last
    year, near the Dunlop bridge? (Was it Dunlop, seems nearly every
    circuit has one?)
    
    Aiming to leave a 4:00 am tomorrow, so should be there by 10:00, wanna
    meet earlier? Is Ian coming with you?
    
    Colin_see_you_at_11:30_if_not_before

    
    Jag - 1 & 2, Porsche 3rd, were running 2nd until 15 minutes before the
    end!!
    
    Well done Jaguar, but I still reckon Mercedes will take the
    championship.

	Yes, I saw the ( recorded ) last 10 minutes or so on Beeb 2. A very
	nice parade lap that was ! Walkinshaw even made sure the Jags
	were as clean as possible for the camera's. 

	Congartulations to Jag, financial commiserations to Nissan, who spent
	mega bucks on pre-race advertising and even paid for part of the chicane
	in the Mulsanne strait !

	Does anyone know if, Eurosport for instance, will showing the race in 
	more detail during this week.

	Gordon

    
    Just back @ 1600hrs Monday. Great time, great result. Suspect we
    went to the wrong Mercier brolly ....... just one other Deccie there,
    & in all the hub-bub I've forgotten his name (splendid EIS chap
    from Dec Park) -- apologies, especially as he was good enough to
    top up my sons & I. No gratitude, some people!
    
    Many impressions, some learning. Will give more feedback soon as
    time available
    
    Colin (who_arrived_at_Calais_just_as_his_boat_left...........)

    
    Ok - a bit more re Le Mans, for the benefit of next year's visitors.
    
    
    - don't use the Le Mans/Paris autoroute after the race. 3 hours just to
      Paris...
    
    - Compiegne is a good break point on the way home. We found a small
      hotel above a great Chinese restaurant - cost us �20 total for 3!
      
    - �160 for the car + 3 pax is a rip-off for a 75 minute crossing.
      I'd explore alternatives in advance next year (we only booked
      the week of the race this year). From Reading, Portsmouth/St.Malo
      seems to get the popular vote, with Truckline Poole/Cherbourg
      as a good alternative.
    
    - we got to the circuit at approx 1800hrs Friday. Stumbled on a
      super camp site by accident -- a small field designated at Vert
      S. Loads of room, convenient for a splendid view point, & far
      enough from track that sleep was no problem at night (rather noisier
      in the day -- next to the heliport). We started with 4 loos for
      about 20 tents, but that changed to 1 loo as the population went
      up to 50 tents. Still much better than most of the circuit
      facilities!
      
    - many people paid nothing for this site, as there was only one
      visit from the authorities. Needless to say, we were there at
      the time. Cost us �18 for 1 car, 2 tents.
    
    - we bought a general ticket but, in all honesty, it gave us little
      benefit & cost us a great deal of money (not just for the ticket 
      -- for steins at �9 a go in the bierkeller...)
    
    - the best vantage points I found were both available for nothing.
      One was 100 yards from our tent, just on the exit from the Porsche
      curves. Cars in sight for 800 yards or more, through a series
      of bends & up to the pit chicane.  
    
      The other was at the pit turn-off, where you had a great view
      over the chicane & the pit lane -- good for photographs. Only
      room for 3 people, but I had it to myself for ages.
    
    Impressions -
    
    - the sound of the Mazda's -- awesome
    
    - being in the scrum on the track from 1605hrs Sunday. The third
      rendition of the National Anthem was better than most rugger crowds
      manage 
    
    - the bierkeller
    
    - the Jan Lammers fan club -- bunch of huge Dutchmen, including
      one all rigged out as a Viking. I suspect Kodak made more out
      of him than they did from the cars... All were tattooed, & covered
      in slogans that made you know they were part of the brotherhood.
      Suspect many would be frightened to death by just seeing them
      roll in on their Harleys!
    
    - a '60's Triumph twin that was on our ferry, was in the next field,
      & returned at the same time. All decked out in period style -
      high pipes etc. Nice to see it being used, rather than locked
      away in a heated garage.
    
    - trying to decide which Mercier umbrella I was supposed to be at...
    
    
    Greatest pressure on conscience -
    
    - not knowing whether to cheer or cry when the Brun Porsche failed
      after 23hrs 46mins. Great for Jags, but I raced cars, karts &
      m/c for some years so empathised with the despair the Brun team must
      have felt.
    
    - justifying to myself that the �250 a head we spent was worth it!
    
    BTW, highlights on Grandstand on Saturday 1310/1340. Should see
    us hanging over the 12 foot wire fence as the lead Jags went past
    on the last lap ......... hope the wife doesn't recognise a fat,
    bald, old fool who should know better !!
         
    Thanks for all your advice,
    Colin  
                               

    Well I have just got back, I must have missed everyone. I got the the
    champagne brolly about 11.20 ( the one behind the pits ) I even had a
    little digital flag on the antenna on me hat. Never mind fantastic
    weekend. 
    
    The bit that topped it for me was seeing tom appear with a bucket of
    soapy water and a sponge when No 3 was in for the last real stop
    ,washing the front of the car.
    
    
    Garry

    re: -1
    
    	Thanks, you jogged my memory, I noticed that a lot of the areas
    that last year required general entry didn't this year. For those who
    attened for the first time this year , to get the other side of the
    dunlop bridge on the funfair side required general entry to get there
    and on to Tertra Rouge and also the other side of the track. I needed
    the general entry to get into the pits area with my pit balcony ticket.
    For me it was worth all the extra expence. The Bogs in the paddock and
    pit area were clean , useable and worth all the extra just to be able
    to use the toilet without having to hold your nose or using one of the
    corks from the many wine bottles to put off the requirement.
    
    As for the beerkeller, I was stunned at the cost of 3 stiens and 1 jug.
    Did anyone get share certificates for the place, 9 quid a pot must sure
    be a buy in. With no offer of the certificate I assumed that we had
    payed for the stiens, needless to say I have the little chappie at home
    all washed and clean. 
    
    
    Garry
    

    Now that Le Mans is over it would appear that some teams have a
    somewhat bitter taste left.  A statement issued by none other than FISA
    ,was released on the 14th cancelling the race this weekend at Jarama.
    Fisa reportedly say that safety changes to the circuit that had been
    impossed had not been completed and therefore have no option. This has
    upset some teams who have had to prepare 2 sets of cars and take them
    to Le Mans because of the logistics involved in returing home between
    races. The report goes on to say the there is increasing unrest among 
    manufactures and others involved with the WSPC with FISA's efforts to
    promote and administer the series.
    
    Along with that there are a couple of reports in Autosport this week
    about the ACO's position with the circuit and the race. The ACO's
    president is reported to have said in last fridays pre race press
    conference that the ACO want the race to be championship next year
    but are not prepared to lose money to Fisa and themselves make a
    financial loss on the race. They consider that seeing how they put all
    the effort in and have all the expense, they should get the biggest
    slice of the cake. Seems fair to me, after all if the aco get more
    money then they should be able to provide better facilities. Fisa don't
    really go overboard , they make the rules, arrange the fixtures and
    take the spoils. Anyone know where I can get one of these highly paid
    jobs that involve other people doing the work. There's also a picture
    that shows the proposed new pits complex.
    
    
    Garry

    

    An earlier note talked about the cost of ferry tickets. Ouch.
    Probably the best deal for ferry tickets can be had through the
    XJR travel club, which have a special deal with P&O for the Dover
    to Calais/Boulogne/Zeebrugge routes. Admittedly its only good
    if your prepared to go by these routes....
    
    They charge �49 per car and �15 per adult (return fares). To qualify
    you have to depart any sailing Thurs - Sat and return any sailing
    Sun - Mon. You are also supposed to be a member of the XJR travel
    club, but although I am, I've never been asked to prove it when
    purchasing the tickets.
    
    These fares are available for all the European rounds of the WSPC
    and Le Mans. (Up till this year, It was only �30 per car and you
    leave from Tuesday onwards).
    
    XJR magazine carries details of these offers, but if anyones interested
    I can post details of subscription addresses and the travel agent
    that deals with these offers.
    
    Back to some thoughts of Le Mans....
    
    I thought the prices in the Bierhall were ludicrous and for the
    first time at Le Mans I didn't go in. I'd have wanted the tent as
    a souvenir at those prices!
    
    Colin and I did meet at/near the champagne umbrella (sorry didn't
    know there was more than one) and I think its fair to say we supped
    a couple of glasses? Eh Colin? Is your offer to let me 'test' the
    944 round the Nurburgring circuit still a runner? Have you had any 
    of the 'pictures' you collected on the way down returned yet? ;-);-)

    This was the first year I driven out to the more distant parts of the 
    circuit during the race. Well worth it and much easier than I imagined.
    
    And the result? It speaks for itself....
    
    Richard.
    

    Sort of "Seen in passing" but more relevent here.
    
    On French T.V. last week, coverage of the Pug 905 unveiling.
    
    Sedate sort of drive, around meandering test track. Didn't seem
    to be pushing anything very hard.
    
    Body style was very flat with small, single, driver cabin (thought
    there was supposed to be 'room' for the 'mechanic')
    
    Providing that there isn't another debacle between FISA and ACO
    Le Mans next year should be very interesting.

    
    A great race this year.
    
    The result was terrific, but if you weren't there in 1988 don't kid 
    yourself that the atmosphere was the same this year.
    
    I, too, had the distinctly mixed feelings about the demise of the 
    Brun Porsche. Jaguar 1-2 was great, but who would have wished engine
    failure on anyone so late in the race?
    
    The performance of the Nissans impressed me. I expected them to be
    fast initially, but they lasted longer than I expected. Don't discount
    them next year, it took Jaguar and Mercedes 3 years to crack Le Mans
    too!
    
    I refused to squander 20 quid on a visit to the blandest circuit in
    the world this year, but have decided to give Donnington a look in
    September. Here's hoping for another Jaguar victory there.
    
    Mark

    result from Dijon.
    
    
    
    1.	Sauber Mercedes		Mass/Wendlinger
    2.  Sauber Mercedes	        Schlesser/Baldi
    3.  Nissan		        Bailey/Blundell
    4.  Jaguar		        Lammers/Wallace
    5.  Jaguar                  Brundle/Ferte
    6.  Spice                   Taylor/Salazar
    7.  Porsche 962             Wolleck/Jelinski
    8.  Porsche 962             
    9.  Porsche 962
    10. Porsche 962
    
    
    I can't remember the rest of the cars drivers were, but
    Pescarolo was amongst them. There swas something like 3 seconds between
    the first 2 saubers and quite a gap between them and the nissan. From
    the report on ceefax Jaguar were pushing the nissan but were having
    problems with grip. Alain Ferte said in an interview that after a tyre
    stop the jaguar was going great guns for about 5 laps then the grip
    went making it very difficult to drive. Dijon does not seem to favor
    the jaguars,I think that I'm right in saying that the have not gone
    very well on the previous 2 outing at this track.
    
    
    Garry

   <<< Note 446.367 by COMICS::COOMBER "It works better if you plug it in" >>>
                            -< Dijon - The result >-

Also, for anyone thinking of visiting Dijon ... don't bother. It's hard to find
(the only signpost we saw was a rusty one about 2 km away), its expensive
(150FF to get in ,150FF again for  the almost emppty stands), facilities are
virtually none-existant (well, ok, you can buy a cold can of coke but that's all).

The race had two starts, an accident after the first formation lap at the back 
took out a Porsche, also a Spice retired before the start. The Mercs were well in
front even halfway round the first lap, and the Jaguars started dropping back
straight away. The Toyota was ahead of the Jags but blew its engine after about
half an hour.

Graham.

    Item of French TV last night...
    
    Keke Rosberg has come out of retirement to drive the new Peugot
    905.
    
    Unfortunately my aged, failing memory, and lack of grasp for the
    french language prevents me telling you the name of the other driver,
    or what sort of flag waving is going on with this new 'national'
    re-entrance to motorsport, but at least the car is getting lots
    of tv coverage.
    
    Roll on Le Mans 91
    
    AMS 

    Yeh , there's a report in autosport this week, JP Jab(however you spell
    it) is also driving for Peugot.
    
    Garry

    Just a few snippets from autosport.
    
    
    
    Birmingham courts group c.........
    
    Birmingham city council have had talks with Bernie Ecclestone with a
    view to staging  around of the 1991 WSPC ( or what ever they choose to
    call it next year )
    
    
    
    Spice ride for Pesca..........
    
    
    Henri Pescarolo is expected to drive for the spice team at the
    Nurburgring  partnering Jean-Louis Ricci.
    
    
    Obermaier spice deal........
    
    Obermaier have taken delivery of a spice se90 for its 1991 wspc game
    plan. They will be using the new spice dfr's.
    
    
    Nissan contemplates group c future...........
    
    Nissan are expected to make a decision on its future plans .As yet they
    have not confirmed an entry for 1991. Nissan lag behind in the 3.5
    litre engine programme and have yet to extend its deal with lola.
    
    
    March touts group c car............
    
    March engineering have confirmed its plans to produce a customer car
    for the 1991 wspc season.
    
    
    Courage .............
    
    Yves Courage is in japan dicussing engines for next year.
    
    
    
    
    Garry

Just to complete the spiel on the 905.

Peugeot (Rosberg and Jabouille) will compete in the last two WSPC events
of the season (Canada and Mexico?). Full season next year.

Mansell was offered �3.5m to drive for them - "No, I can't put my family
through the agony again" :-) .....

    
    Nissan to pull out of the WSPC in 1991?
    
    That appears to be the suggestion at the moment as they consider that 
    the weight penalties applied to turbo cars next season will make their
    cars totally uncompetitive. MN has an editorial this week in which they
    question whether anyone will finish Le Mans with 3.5 litre cars! There
    is apparently growing feeling that Le Mans should be left out of the
    WSC (as it is to be known from next year) or be treated as a special
    race in terms of what teams are allowed to race there (presumably 
    suggesting that they be allowed to race turbo cars with no weight
    limits).
    
    On another track, as a Jaguar fan of some zeal, I can't help wondering
    what the 3.5 litre car is actually going to owe to Jaguar. I mean
    TWR build the cars (and presumably could turn them into Lotus/Toyota/
    Lamborghini cars with relatively little work) and now Ford are going
    to provide the engines! Sounds more like the return of the C100 than
    the Jaguar. What a pity that FISA are dumb enough to insist on this
    'pure' racing 3.5 litre rule and are scrapping all the road car
    developed engines.
    
    Sadly FISA has nothing of an eye for history. If they did they never 
    would have proposed Pro-car (The disasterous Group 5 by another name)
    or the Grand-Prix derived engine regs they have now (Also tried in the
    seventies and leading to the slippery slope for sportscars which was
    only escaped from when IMSA and the ACO started promoting the GTP 
    category, which led to Group C).
    
    Mark 

    Further to the nissan story its looks like there maybe a few more to
    follow. The Nissans will be made by NPTI and not the current builder
    , Lola, in the states but are way behind with the new V12. Other teams
    that are possibly going to leave WS(P)C are Joest and GP Motorsport.
    
    	There is also a suggestion that FISA should relax the the deadline
    	for 1991 and allow teams to join the championship when they are
    	ready , like peugeot this year. With all these rumblings in the
        ranks, I wonder who long this championship will last. How many 
    	teams will dump ws(p)c and go to imsa where they can use the 
    	cars that will be historical junk next year.
    
    
    	Garry
    

    

    
    Porsches will certainly suffer next year. The new weight regulations
    for the turbos will seriously hamper an already slow car. This
    seems rough justice for Porsche who just about kept the WSPC alive
    during its leaner years.
    
    I would be surprised if a number of the Porsche teams don't pull out. 
    Some like Obermaier Racing(?), who I believe have bought Spice SE90s,
    may switch to other manufacturers but they won't all be able to
    do that. Porsche are the major customer supplier in the WSPC. Half
    the competitors in the last round at Dijon were driving Porsches.
        
    The other little annoyance is that there is absolutely no provision
    for any other normally aspirated cars apart from the 3� litre ones.
    This effectively knocks out the Jaguar V12 from Le Mans if its part
    of the championship. The last thing I read said Tom W. was going
    to appeal.
    
    Still no doubt JMB and his sidekick are happy about this state of
    affairs. After all, Peugeot will be competing, which will more than
    make up for the loss of Porsches, Nissans and others. 
    
    Richard.
    
    

    
    Re Porsches
    
    
    The Porsche factory has advised runners of their 962C model not to race
    in the WSC next season as they feel they cannot guarantee the safety of 
    the design (now VERY old) with the extra weight. Presumably this
    doesn't apply to those teams with non-factory chassis, but it wil
    certainly thin the field dramatically if the teams heed the advice.
    
    Mark

    re .375
    
    >>  I would be surprised if a number of the Porsche teams don't pull
    out. 
    
    Does anyone know what has happened to Richard Lloyd Racing ? I used
    to follow them because of a friends contact with the team, but since
    moving to France I've lost touch.
    
    They used to use Porsche engines, and were doing so last year at
    Le Mans, but were not happy because they felt that they weren't
    getting a good deal from Porche. There was talk of using Mazda engines
    this year. 
    
    Anyone got any gen. or have they not competed this year ?
    
    
    
    AMS
    

    
    RLR are alive and racing with their 962 based cars.
    
    It is sad to see the team which once led the way in terms of Porsche
    based cars (and composite chassis and enclosed rear-wheels) having to
    scratch around in the middle of the pack, but since they lost their
    (presumably substantial) Canon backing they seem to have been on a 
    downward slope. Maybe they'll be able to team up with a major
    manufacturer to build a 3.5 litre car.
    
    Mark

    Did anyone read the interview with that nice man bernie last week in
    AUTOSPORT????? I must confess I havn't still read it end to end yet,
    but the way it read was that he was outright saying that it was never
    going to be on a par with F1. What really miffed me was that he
    suggested that the lower end of group C , pesumably the teams where
    money is tight, was amatuerish and wouldn't mine if they wern't there.
    Maybe I missed something there but surely its good for motorsport to 
    have the not so well off teams, if they really are useless they they'll
    drop by the wayside anyway, and in anycase if the team was that
    amatuerish they'd never get good drivers. My racing effort is amatuer,
    but that does not stop me from putting a lot effort in to try to
    compete with the big money. Someone has to make the field up and
    provide what they do is done in a professional manner, surely the
    fact that the smaller teams don't have the 3 transporters and the
    mandatory winniebago dosn't make a blind bit of difference.
    
    
    I would be only to happy if Fisa went away and left sportscar racing
    alone . It was allright before they stuck thier unwanted oar in . I can
    see next season being a big flop, it will probably have the opposite
    effect on the meetings, if the racing gets boring the crowds will
    disappear, the tv companies won't want the coverage ,good night vienna.
    
    	The prospects of this kind of sorry situation makes me wonder
    	why they bothered in the first place.
    
    
    	Garry
    
    

    
    Yet another Mercedes Steamroller in Germany (still even Jaguar managed
    a home win - maybe another one at Donnington?) with the two C-11s
    lapping the entire field and the Jaguars two laps ahead of the 5th
    place car.
    
    Perhaps the most impressive thing about the weekend (if Ceefax is to
    be believed) is that Jaguar changed an engine in 10 minutes and still
    got their cars home as best-of-the-rest.
    
    Mark

    That was pretty damed impressive. I like the McMercedes, does so much
    remind you of the honda turbo before f1 when normal.
    
    Back to Donnington, anybody know what the camping is like in/close to
    the circuit?? I plan on going up saturday so I don't have to get up at
    the crack of dawn on sunday.
    
    Garry

    
    Camping? Not for me. Me and the misus are going to have a warm
    comfortable bed for the night just a few miles down the road from
    the circuit and a cooked breakfast included all for less than a fiver!
    
    How?
    
    We're going to a Youth Hostel!
    
    Mark
    

    Well , caravaning comes under that umbrella. I'll get a cooked
    breakfast sunday and loadsa beers saturday. What else could you want???
    
    Well apart from Jaguar trouncing Mercedes.
    
    
    	Garry
    

    
    Beer, breakfast and a Jaguar victory? Purrfection!
    
    Mark

There is a campsite on the circuit - from what I can remember there is water
available and loos (although I think they were portaloos).

It is at the opposite site of the circuit to Redgate.

CU there.

Caroline

    

    Not really much of a race, more of a procession. Mercedes dominated
    not ony the race, but the practice sessions and the qualifying.
    Schlesser set a pole time of 1:20 on Friday and this was never 
    bettered. Jaguar conjured up 1:22s and Toyota a 1:23. 
        
    Saturday afternoon qualifying was a bit of a wash out. It 
    started at 13:30 but by 14:00 most of the teams had given up.
    The rain was coming down hard and no-one seemed to want to do
    any wet weather testing. A sole Porsche trundled round for some
    twenty minutes but as the rain became harder that too headed for
    the pits.
    
    Apart from thick fog early on Sunday morning, the day was bright
    and sunny and the rains of the day before were long gone. Sunday
    warm-up was uneventful apart from the blown engine/turbo of the
    Jaguar. Mercedes turned in lap times considerably quicker
    than the rest of the teams. 
    
    The 106 lap race started on time. There was a minor inicident on
    the first lap with the Nissan(24) getting tangled up with one of
    the new formula C1s. 

    From the start, the Schlesser Mercedes drove away from the field.
    By the time the second Mercedes had discovered a slow puncture and
    stopped  early for tyres (lap 25), Schlesser had built a 45 second 
    lead.
        
    By lap 30, the Mercedes had lapped everybody upto the 3rd and 4th
    placed Jaguars and at just past the halfway point no-one was left
    on the same lap as the two Mercedes.
    
    Mid race tedium was enlivened by a battle between the two Mercedes.
    Schumacher, who took over on lap 25 must have decided to burn off
    some fuel. He lapped upto three seconds a lap faster than the leading
    Mercedes and by lap 60 had built a 12 sec lead.  Either the no 1.
    Mercedes didn't mind or could not respond. 

    The final pit stops of the two Mercedes seemed to tell their own
    story. The Schumacher car spent 15 seconds longer in the pits than
    the Schlesser/Baldi Mercedes and so after both had stopped the
    no 1. Mercedes was back in the lead. A lead it continued to extend
    for the rest of the race.
    
    Jaguar raced each other for most of the 106 laps. They never really
    challenged the Mercedes, but neither were troubled by any of the
    rest of the field either. It seemed at one stage that the Spice 
    would mount a challenge but after improperly fitting a new nose it 
    was never in the hunt.
    
    The Jaguars finised 3rd and 4th a lap behind the two Mercedes. Not
    good but considerably better than anyone else. 
    
    Although Nissan finished fifth they were never even near the pace.
    They ran the race in laps of about 1:31 and spent most of the race
    outside the top 10 places. But problems with the Joest Porches,
    the Toyotas (probably fuel five laps from the end), the Spice and
    the Brun Porches all contrived to help Nissan to a respectable
    race position, even though they finished three laps behind the Mercedes.
    
    The Joest Porsche (7) finished sixth, but had spent the final three
    laps running in "economy mode" just touring round the circuit. Like
    the Nissan, three laps (but very nearly four) behind the Mercedes.
     
    Mercedes are rumoured to have built a "flat 12" for the 3.5n/a car
    next year. In the interest of good racing, I hope that it is not
    as good as their current set up. 
        
    I think the Ceefax was a bit optimistic on the Jaguar engine job!
    Jaguar blew a turbo/engine (don't know which) during the warm up
    on Sunday morning but they worked on it for several hours (8:45
    - 11:30 ish) before it ran again. Still impressive but not exactly
    10 minutes. Maybe it was finished before and the just didn't run
    it, but it seems unlikely.

    Richard.
    
    

    re:-1
    
    	If the loos are even a slight improvment on Le Mans it can't be
    that bad. I could suffer that for 1 night.
    
    
    
    Garry

    
    Correction to Ceefax.
    
    The Jaguar engine change took 2 HOURS AND 10 minutes.
    
    Pretty impressive, but not quite the same as 10 minutes!
    
    Mark

    
    Shall we try to arrange a meet at Donnington then ?
    
    Nigel

    
    Come on then...
    
    Who is going to Donnington on Sunday ?
    
    Anyone ?
    
    No one ?

    
    I'll be there! 
    
    
    We're taking the Mean Machine this weekend!
    
    Mark
    (Hopin_for_rain_just_like_Spa_go_for_it_Brundle_While_I_join_all_my_Words_
     together_in_one_long_stream_seperated_by_underscores!)
    
    

MX-5's!?
does anyone have the full programme of events handy?

...art

    Well I'll be there,
    
    
    	going saturday, staying in the campsite.
    
    
    Hoping_for_a_jaguar_win_with_no_rain_and_loads_of_beers_saturday.
    
    
    Garry

    
    Sounds good... how much is entry? Any plans to meet (either there or
    before going up?). If I go, I'll have to be there for the MX5s, I'd
    like to see John Lyon racing.
    
    Bill.
         

    
    My original plans having dropped through, 
    I'm certainly on for a meet, before, during or after.
    
    Currently at nearly sunny SBP, which gives me most of England before
    Donnington.
    
    Nigel

    
    Good, good. Only problem is, I'm not sure how to get there (I know
    roughly where it is, and can probably find it on a map), and I don't
    know what I'll be expected to pay or be able to watch...
    
    Bill.

    donningtion is basicly east midlands airport. find that and you found
    donnington. Its junction 23 or 24 on the M1 . My guess is that it will
    be signposted from there. Last year the police were directing traffic
    off the M1 to the track. Price is �20 for the general track entry
    ticket. 
    
    Garry

    
    Well Donnington turned out to be a disaster for Jaguar with both
    cars being disqualified for using too much fuel (about 1 litre
    each apparently although car 4 apparently had 3 litres left in it
    at the end of the race).
    
    The Mercedes steamroller just rolled on as usual with car number
    1 winning as it pleased despite a smoking turbo  which left a 
    trail of smoke every time it went through the corner before 'The
    Old hairpin' from as early as lap 5. Whether it could have lasted a 
    1000 km race is debateable (unlikely I'd say judging by the way it
    was smoking on the straights by the end of the race), but then again
    sportscar racing (with the exception of Le Mans) isn't about endurance
    any more.
    
    In second place was (guess what?) Number 2 Mercedes which survived a 
    spin at that same corner, only luck keeping the car out of the sand
    trap and in the race in the hands of Frentzen (who showed well at 
    the Brum Superprix), but really Mercedes deserved to win, so dominant
    were they and they had the luck to take the win too.
    
    Third on the road was Brundle, driving alone, for a long time it
    looked as if he would split the Mercs (or even win if No 1 expired
    as it seemed certain to do eventuallt), but by two-thirds distance
    he had dropped to a safe third, only to be robbed of it after the
    race.
    
    The Spices were impressive with Harvey picking up 3rd (4th on the
    road and picking of all the lower placed runners as he chose) and 
    Van Der Poele driving really well after the number 21 car had been
    delayed with some problem early on to take 7th (I think?). Highlight
    for the Spice fans had to be the moment when Harvey passed the No 1
    Merc at (that bend), although without a radio I was unsure if he'd
    taken the lead or unlapped himself, anyway it didn't last long and
    within two laps No 1 was back in front.
    
    Donnington is a pleasant circuit (suprisingly narrow in parts) with
    plenty of contour changes and good spectator banking, making the
    flat lifeless Silverstone look bloody awful, I'd go to Donnington again
    but you can keep Silverstone from now on. The PA was also good enough
    to make a radio only an advantage rather than a neccesity.
    
    The support races were ok (not as good as Brands last year though) with 
    the MX-5s (not a car with a straight panel when the race STARTED!) and 
    Supersports (great dice between the Can-Am cars at the front and
    another between the T70s further down) being the highlights and the 
    Vauxhall Lotus the low-light.
    
    All in all a good day, but a sad end for Jaguar fans (myself included),
    but as for the M1 coming home...
    
    Mark

    well shiver my timbers!!! Like yourself I had a long journey home via
    cambridge to london. When I left I knew nothing about the
    disqualification. Not impressed ,  1 Litre. I find that a touch
    strange, It's way out of character for Tom. As for Merecedes, bloody
    lucky. How that No. 1 car managed to keep going beats me, and who ever
    was driving no. 2 when it spun at the old hair pin what very lucky.
    
    
    Mark, If you didn't go to the museum, you missed the best bit of the
    weekend. If you ever go there again its weel worth a visit.
    
    
    	Peeved_of_London
    
    	Garry

    
    The museum appeared to be closed on Sunday.
    
    Mark

    Ho hum, I'll pass on that . Due to the long journey I was up there
    saturday and well it was open then. Lots of new cars and a big change
    round. Disapointed to see the Rothmans 956 just inside had replica
    plastered on the name tag. As for sunday I don't know. Last year it was
    open on race day up till quite late.
    
    
    	Have Jaguar appealed against the 1 litre over the top or just 
    	swallowed it?????
    
    
    Garry

    
    Apparently Jaguar have decided not to appeal against the
    disqualifications, although they can't have gained any REAL advantage
    by using so little extra fuel.
    
    I suppose they feel they'll gain nothing and perhaps tarnish Mercs
    Championship victory by appealing (there is still SOME sense of fair
    play in Group C, I wonder how long it will last), but after all if
    you are talking about REAL sportscar racing (ie ENDURANCE racing)
    Jaguar have had a good year with 1-2 at Daytona AND Le Mans, and for
    anyone who reckoned Jags victory at Le Mans was hollow without Mercedes
    there just look at the state of No 1 on Sunday and tell me it would 
    have lasted 24 hours! :^)
    
    Mark

    In away I am pleased that Jag have not appealed, in my mind group c had
    got to the same point that F1 got to a few years back. I have a bias
    towards Jag but my opinion I think is shared by many. I don't think
    that mercedes winning is popular with even the germans, If porsche won
    that would be a different ball game. Since the race lenght got changed
    from an endurance to a dash mercedes have produced a car that is only
    for sprints. Sunday I think merc were very luck, 1 that the no. 1 car
    managed to finish and 2 that the driver of number 2 was lucky no to get
    stuck in the kitty litter. Would merc be in the same position if the
    race lenght was still 1000k ?? Just look at how many cars break when
    pushed at the pace of a 480k race.
    
    
    	Wait to next year , that will sort the men from the boys.
    
    
    
    	And hey, Sauber are swiss , yes????? how comes they play the German 
    	national anthem some time and the swiss others???
    
    
    
    	Garry

    Tom Walkinshaw blames the overfuelling of both his cars (by no more
    than 1 litre each!) on the press!! It put his boys off, he said! What a
    load of old brake fluid....
    
    Colin

   According to L'Equipe...
    
     Jaguar are expected to use a derivative of the V8 F1 Ford engine for 
    Group C racing next year. Ross Brawn and Cosworth's Dick Scammel and
    Geoff Goddar have been working with the Tom Walkinshaw team. Goddar has 
    responsibility to get the engine into Group C trim, while Ross Brawn is 
    currently at work designing a new car which is said to be radically 
    different from the XJ11. The car, designated "Jaguar, powered by Ford" is
    expected to be unveiled in january 91.
    
    Meanwhile, TAG Electronics have signed an exclusive deal with Mercedes.
    TAG wil be working on the fuel injection for a new "flat" V12 engine. 
    Mercedes have also gained a number of Porsche engineers for next year and 
    they expect to have an electronic gearbox (like Ferrari) ready for next 
    season. They have tested the Porsche PDK system, which in road-going
    form gave us the 911 Tiptronic.
    

..and Mercedes have dropped Sauber. I hear they're having the chassis
designed and built in the UK (where everyone seems to come these days!).

Steve

    What you me that it will be Mercedes Benz and not sauber mercedes???	
    
    If the chassis is being built in the uk ,will they play 'god save the 
    	queen ' when the car wins.
    
    
    
    	Anyway back to a more sensible note, watching Eurosport today,
    	they reported that jaguar were not even a litre over but .8.
    	I know rules are rules but .8 of a litre how far is that going
    	get you if a gallon is only a couple of miles.
    
    
    	GARRY
    	
    
    

    
    As a matter of interest, when does a Jaguar cease to be a Jaguar.
    
    The V12 powered cars obviously had a derivative of the road V12 engine
    as could be bought by Joseph Public in the XJ12 and XJS and even the
    V6 Turbo engine was developed by Jaguar Sport (partly owned by Jaguar),
    but when TWR are building the cars and Ford/Cosworth are powering them
    what is left to call a Jaguar?
    
    Mercedes, Nissan and Toyota build their own engines, Porsche build cars 
    AND engines and Peugeot are to follow the same route, but the XJR-14
    will be a Jaguar in name only. MN had a report that Jaguar Sport were
    developing a 3.5 litre V12 for the 1992 season, I hope this is true as 
    it will be hard to think of the XJR-14 Cosworth as a REAL Jaguar.
    
    Mark
    

    If we allow free market forces to prevail, what can you expect?  And
    where did all those original REAL Jaguar engines come from ..... ????
    
    Brian

    
    Hello Brian
    
    I hope the E-Type made the journey ok. Are you US based now?
    
    Anyway, I didn't quite understand your point about where did the
    original Jag engines come from (Jaguar I guess, the V12 and the 
    XJ engine directly from sportsracing cars), but the whole thing
    about Group C is that it creates a perception of a marque (ask
    Merc and Jaguar about market perception of their products before
    and after Group C involvement) and I can't help but think that a
    Jaguar with no JAGUAR parts is not really a Jaguar but a Ford.
    
    I can't think of any other case where a production car manufacturer
    has run a Group C car into which they have no actual input (although
    I expect someone will be able to!). It all sounds a bit fraudulent
    to me, I mean Skoda could roll into the market with a Honda engined
    Lola chassised machine and dominate the series, but what would it
    really say about the engineering that goes into making a Skoda. Not
    a lot. At least with production derived, or internally developed,
    engines you got the feeling that the company had the engineering
    ability and integrity to develop a racing machine.
    
    As you say this is probably the ultimate result of the market economy
    as far as motor racing goes.
    
    Mark

    Bit late but, better late than never. Reading last weeks autosport dear
    old Tom don't seem too please with the fuel monitoring in the pit lane.
    The long and the short of it seemed to be that TWR have litres and
    tenth's on the flow meter from the fuel tower where as most of the
    other teams only have whole litres . Well there's something, Tom seemed
    miffed at the fact that someone with the whole liter gauge could put
    45.9 litres into the tank and only get 45 register on the gauge. I
    guess he's infering that other teams could be as much as 3 litres over
    at the end of the race and no one would be the wiser. A valid argument
    but I suppose that tom will change flow meters and join the rest.
    
    
    Garry
    

    re .410:
    
    Where did you get the info on the up-coming Skoda group C entry? I
    thought they were keeping that secret, at least until the Trabant F1
    project was officially announced.
    
    russ

    
    Re .412
    
    Ah, we have our contacts! :^)
    
    Anyway, lots of silly Group C stories in MN this week, only they
    probably aren't silly at all!
    
    First is that Mansell is rumoured to be lined up for a Peugeot Group
    C ride. It would certainly be interesting to see a Formula 1 front 
    runner in a Group C car.
    
    Second is that Pug have pressured FISA and J-M Ballsup for even SHORTER
    WSC races! (God, the 8 lap clubbies as Thruxton will be billed as
    Endurance events soon!) The idiotic Frenchman seems to have decided
    that for the Gloire-de-France (read lots of Peugeot wins for a super
    fragile car) it would be a good idea, despite opposition from virtually
    every other team (including Mercedes, who seem to have gained most from
    the reduction to 480 km races). Will someone in France please do the
    decent thing and blow up the FISA HQ, making sure, of course, that both
    JMB and MGB are both there at the time!
    
    Mark

    
    Rumour had it, that the V6 Jag engine was really a development of the
    AR 6R4 engine. A Jag mechanic, when asked, said he couldn't comment.
    
    A straight six could have been more believable .....

    
    No, I think that's wrong, TWR bought the rights to the AR 6R4 engine
    about the time that the Jaguar V6 engine appeared, but for other
    purposes (eg supplying all those rally cars). I think the Jaguar
    V6 has a different V-angle, amongst other things.
    
    Mark

    And there's more (wonderfull phrase)
    
    	I'm still catching up on last weeks autosport. Phuh!! what a laugh.
    I was reading through all the cobblers that JMB was spouting forth at
    Donnington the other weekend. Well , laugh I nearly cried. The stupid 
    person is talking about making all international races with group c
    cars have to conform to fisa regulations. The article infered that the
    silly daft nelly was going to have a bash at sat1 supercup ,the
    group c series in japan and also mention of maybe Imsa. Who the dickens
    does he think he is , God???????? At this point words fail me. Lets see
    what tomorrows autosport has in store.
    
    Garry
    
     

    Well I've just booked the holiday for Le Mans next year. According 
    to Autosport this week Le Mans is back on the Calender, Fantastic. The
    report says that the ACO has given up the TV rights but retain every
    thing else. The aggreement is that Le Mans have a Guaranted 5 year
    contract for a race (apposed to the F1 deal where the guarantee is no 
    guarantee , beats me) . It would appear that Fisa want to plug all the
    possible holes in the "law" to prevent other non WSC races. The date is
    set for 16 June 1991. Also the weight regulation for the turbo cars is
    to remain unchanged.
    
    Garry 

    
    Anybody got a detailed report to hand on yesterdays race in Canada.
    
    Mercedes won, with a Nissan second and Richard Lloyd's Porsche third 
    (well deserved, if a little fortuitous). Both Jaguar's retired early
    (Brundle having led for a while early on) and the Peugeot didn't last
    long in the race either after an uninspiring practice (but it is a 
    VERY new car still).
    
    The second Merc was 9th (result of a unfortunately timed stop?) after
    the race was stopped after a manhole cover (!) flew out of the road
    and caused a very bad accident in which Jesus Pareja's Brun Porsche
    was turned into a 'fireball' (CEEFAX's word). He escaped unhurt, the
    report on ceefax said, I hope it's true.
    
    Mark

    I watched some of it live but recorded it to watch later. I'll probably
    have a watch later and report back tomorrow.
    
    
    Garry

    
    According to the Telegraph, both Jaguars retired with broken
    driveshafts, indicating that the gas/electricity/telecom people may
    well have been doing some last minute repairs just before the race
    started.  :-)
    
    Nigel

    RE CANADA.
    
    	I watched the race last night on the tape I recorded. To be
    honest it was a boring race.  Martin Brundle's overtaking of Schlesser
    was an gap well filled. At the 180 Hairpin Schlesser left a gap
    wide enough for a bus to get through , Brundle nipped down the inside
    and started to go way from the merc. The Jag look fast and seemed
    to have no trouble leaving the merc until the first pace car. That
    was due to a momentette at the hairpin requiring a tow truck to
    get the junk out of the way. The field bunched up untill the green
    flag. The Jag again pulled away from th merc until the next pace
    car. The pace car was out twice in the first 31 laps. The 2nd time
    really stunned me, some loo loo spun his porsche an left it perched
    on the apex of a bend, not a good place to park, but the really
    stupid thing was that no one bothered to try and move the car. After
    a few laps they pushed the pace car out which picked up the 2nd
    place car and left brundle out on his own. After pace cars, pit
    stops etc the the Primagaz porsche driven Harold Grohs lead for
    about 8 laps ,the nissan nipped past the primagaz car and that was
    really . The places changed around a few cars dropped out, the pace
    car was out again, the Brundle jag dropped out on lap 59 and finally
    the race was stopped on lap 63. This was for the brun car accident.
    The accident wasn't televised so I knon not what happened but it
    involved 3 cars , the Hydro aluminium car, the Courage cougar porsche
    and the repsol car. The tv coverage was looking at a bridge just
    before the section where it  all turned nasty , first there were a
    few wispers of smoke then clouds of it covering the track. Then
    they switched to a helicopter camera for a better look, that car
    was sure on fire but it appeared that all was in good hands. The
    race carried on for a couple a laps or so before the red flag was
    put out stopping the race.
    
    Its difficult to make guess at what happen , the cars were fairly
    spread out. The repsol porsche seems to have had a leakage of some
    sort as there was a trail of what looks like it may have been oil.
    The trail started just before the bend and follows the line the
    car must have taken , straight on at the bend and down the escape
    road and into the type/retaing wall at the end where it burst into
    flames. The car /wreck was very much a write off , even a touch
    difficult to know what it was to begin with . All the drivers were
    ok , they wanders accross the track back to the pits.
                                         
    
    Verdict : Dead boring race full of accidents, pace cars and  dying
    cars. The track seemed more suited to monster trucks that sports
    cars. Yes it did look very bumpy and to some extent a typical
    state side track. Very little run off , concrete retaining walls
    right on the edge of the track and high fences.
    
    
    Garry

    
    Well, 
    
    Brundle finally broke the Mercedes stranglehold on pole position (Jags
    first turbo pole since Brands Hatch 1989), but come the race we had the
    same old Merc 1-2 until...
    
    Schlesser and Baldi were disqualified for using 0.1 litre too much
    fuel!!!
    Ok it's even handed (given Jaguar's disqualification at Donington), but 
    how far can a C-car go on 0.1 litre of fuel. Surely some kind of time 
    penalty would have been better in both cases.
    
    Anyway, Mass and itenerant team mate (Schumacker?) were declared the
    winners with someone else 2nd (was it the Nissan?) and the Jones 
    Jaguar giving Jaguar something from the race. Porsche's filled the
    supporting cast positions as usual (if the 962 doesn't race next year
    the grids are going to be VERY empty!).
    
    There seemed to be a lot of cars on the winning lap, but I don't
    know how exciting a race it was or what happened to the Brundle
    Jaguar. No news on CEEFAX on the Peugeot at all. I presume it raced.
    
    Rumours are suggesting that Jonathan Palmer may move to Peugeot or 
    Jaguar next year. Personally I reckon he's one of the top 2 or 3
    sportscar drivers of the C-car era and would love to see him in a 
    Jaguar - Not sure I could muster much enthusiasm for a Pug though! :^)
    There is also talk of Brundle returning to the Brabham F1 team - sounds
    like another case of retreading old, barren ground.
    
    Mark

    The Mercs finished two laps ahead of the field, with the Nissan
    and the Jag on the same lap.

    I only saw the closing stages, in the rain, and didn't hear anything
    about the disqualification, or what happened to the other Jag.

 Mark

    
    Ah, so much for a hurried look at CEEFAX over breakfast! :^)
    
    Thanks Mark,
    
    Mark

    Disqualified!!!!! I watched it live and there was no mention of that. 
    Anyway the result was :-
    
    
    	Mercedes  - M.Baldi, JL Schlesser
    	Mercedes  - J.Mass, M. (on eurosport) Shunacker
    	Nissan    - M.Blundell, J.Baily
    	Jaguar    - A.Wallace, D.Jones
    	Nissan    - K.Acheson, Someone
    	Porsche   - May have been, Wollock or Palmer.
    
    I guess the result must be now:-
    
    	Nissan    - M.Blundell, J.Baily
    	Jaguar    - A.Wallace, D.Jones
    	Nissan    - K.Acheson, Someone
    	Porsche   - May have been, Wollock or Palmer.
    
    
    Jaguar stole the Mercedes thunder buy taking pole and for the first
    few laps on the race. Jaguar lead the first few laps followed by Mass
    and then Schlesser. Brundle rubbed wheels with Mass and swapped places
    serveral time is the first laps until an intresting bit of over taking
    round the wiggly bit . First Mass passed Brundle then Brundle passed
    Mass and then Brundle spun the Jaguar. Brundle picked it up without
    loosing a place but gradually dropped down the order. The car had been
    putting out some blue smoke but was finally retired with electrical
    problems. The race seemed to go the way so many have before with the
    silver steam roller doing the normal ( well maybe not so normal )
    until around 12 laps from the end.  The rain came down in bucket loads
    causing a few excursion on the grass by several drivers. Until then
    Mass was leading but cleaver manovering got Baldi in front of Mass at
    the tyre change to wets. 
    
    
    As for the .01 litre I tend to aggree ,How far is that going to get a
    car that does 3 or 4 miles to the gallon. Maybe that's the difference
    between starting the car and not. From what I remember Walkinshaw was
    complaining that his gauges on his fuel system were too acurate ( read
    10ths) and no one else had fuel gauges that registered 10ths . If
    mercedes have changed then it's just tough. I guess next year this will
    not be a problem .
    
    
    Garry

    Re .425
    
    Only the Schlesser/Baldi Mercedes was disquaified.
    
    Mark

    Ah!! Well Jaguar snuck in and got a place on the rostrum anyway. 
    
    	Ah, something I forgot to mention. For those who didn't notice the
    No4 pairing was somewhat different to normal, the story goes that
    Martin Brundle has had a word with Tom Walkinshaw because he felt that
    Alan Ferte was loosing martin 3 seconds or so a lap. To resolve the
    problem , Jan Lammers was paired with Martin  and to fill the gap left 
    by Lammers moving in with Brundle Davey Jones was recruited into the
    Wallace car. I can only assume that Ferte was put on the side lines.
    Brundle also is reported to have said that if he can't get a good F1
    deal for next season ( Pesumably better that Brabham ) he will continue
    to drive for Jaguar.
    
    
    
    	Garry

    I think the spice was about 8th or round that , bearing in mind the
    altidude the spice was very much down on power. Firmin Velez managed a
    nice gentle spin in the rain. Also I notice they were running without
    wheel spats.
    
    
    The pug sounded more like an F1 car that a sports car but it finished.
    
    
    Garry

    
    Has anyone else seen the Group C calendar on VTX?
    
    The thing which stands out for me is that they seem to have finally
    got rid of the BEST circuit of all (the second best, Brands was lost
    this year). Where is SPA!?!? If it's good enough for the girly F1
    circus (with their spindly, unsafe cars - compared to a Group C) why
    not for the WSC?
    
    Hoping it's merely an ommision.
    
    Mark

    The latest from this weeks Autosport..
    
    
    ** Mercedes as yet have not finalised the team for 1991. JL Schlesser
    wants sole number 1 status and the team want to keep wendlinger and
    schumacher. The upshot of that is that if JL gets his way and Mass may
    drive with schlesser.
    
    
    
    **The date for Le Mans is set for the 22/23 of june and not as originally
    set for the 16th.
    
    
    
    **Nissan have finally pulled out of groups c leaving Blundell, Bailey and
    co without a drive.
    
    
    **Dumfries quits toyota but does not have a drive for next season as
    yet.
    
    **Scott Pruett and Wayne Taylor have been tested for the Twr imsa team.
    It is not yet known if that are candidates for the Sebring/daytona
    team.
    
    
    **Mercedes Benz north america are rumoured to be intrested in Imsa GTO.
    
    
    ** The spice Lamborgini is currently put on hold while the company try
    to secure finances for the project.
    
    ** The 1991 Jaguar has been designated XJR15 and not 14 as expected.
    
    that all for now.
    
    
    
    Garry
    
    

    
    As reported by Garry, Nissan have abandoned plans to race in the WSC 
    next season and it is looking likely that Toyota will follow suit,
    meaning no Japanese teams in the WSC next season. Like 'em or not they
    have added greatly to Group C in the last couple of seasons. Presumably
    neither team will be able to race at Le Mans either.
    
    Mauro Baldi has been 'released' by Mercedes and rumour has it that he
    may be planning to race with Peugeot next season (F1 noters :- If you want 
    a whiner listen to Keke Rosberg's complaints about the Pug ALREADY!).
    
    Mark

    re. .433

    
    Mazda haven't been in the WSPC THIS year! Le Mans was their only 
    race because Le Mans 1990 was outside the championship.
    
    The ACO/FISA battle appears to be resolved, so Le Mans will be back
    in the WSC next year and (presumably) only championship registered
    cars will be allowed to be raced, unless FISA make an allowance for
    the 24 hour race.
    
    Mark

    RE-1
    
    	Yes that would appear to be true. I did read somewhere , probably 
    	autosport, that it will be championship entries only but teams would	
    	be allowed to enter more cars than registered for the championship
    	for Le Mans only
    
    Garry
    .

I guess the years delay gives Nissan and/or Toyota the chance to get their
3.5 atmo engines sorted out...

    
    Re .438
    
    That's the reason that Nissan have given.
    
    Apparently they will still contest the Japanese championship with 
    a version of this year's car, so if the Le Mans entry list is opened
    up they would have cars suitable to race.
    
    It sounds as if there will be an awfully high number of good drivers
    without drives next year.
    
    Mark

All gleaned, without permission, from Motoring News.


The peugeot driver line-up seems to be,

Yannick Dalmas,
Philippe Alliot,
Keke Rosberg and
Mauro Baldi.

Mauro obviously thinks the car is a winner.

Mentioned eariler Toyota are to take a years sabatical, but still keen
to run at Le Mans.

Lola and Judd are to produce a customer Group C car for 1992.

Franz Conrad and Walter Wolf are creating a new team for '91 with
a new composite chassis and Lamborghini engines.

Obermaier's new Spice may have to be sold after the Lamborghini engine
deal fell through.

Mercedes in trouble ???? (don't all cheer at once)
Development of the flat 12 3.5 engine may be in trouble. Hence they could
start '91 with an updated Turbo C11 cos the new chassis won't take the
Turbo engine.

Ian.

    Yes, Peugeot 905 lineup is firmed up.
    
    Mercedes have decided to build a "Sports Car" by themselves rather than
    using the Sauber team. Maybe the Swiss are too good (or too expensive).
    Strange decision ....

    well that is nice of mercedes. Peter sauber has done all the hard work
    and got mercedes a name in sports car racing and now they dump him.
    This is a rumour that I had heard but unconfirmed. I hope they get
    nowhere.
    
    Anyone know where or what Saubers plans are.???????
    
    
    
    Garry

RE: -.1

Doesn't anyone read what I write anymore?!!!

Sob, Sob :-(

Steve


<<< Note 446.406 by NSDC::SIMPSON "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..." >>>

..and Mercedes have dropped Sauber. I hear they're having the chassis
designed and built in the UK (where everyone seems to come these days!).

Steve

    Confirmed by Ken in today's VNS : Max Welti, Sauber team manager is
    leaving take a similar position at Footwork F1 team.

From the pop songe "Whatever Lola Wants"

shouldn't this be in the trivia topic?

Scott

    Looking a bit further ahead , well next year. I was toying with the
    Idea of going to Daytona (wonga permitting). I Watched some of it live
    this year but I guess its a bit like watching Le Mans on the goggle
    box, It seems to loose that little something. Anyway folk like Tee mills
    and Chequers seem to do a package but I was wondering if anyone had
    ever been and had any comments , polite of course.
    
    Looking even further ahead, it will soon be the time for all the merry
    go round trying to book the ferry for Le Mans. Well I'm going to get
    exactly what I want next year , it's already provisionally booked.
    
    I missed all the goings on last week and autosport, I was off on a
    course. I sat and wondered who's going to provide a good field with
    Nissan,Toyota, Some or all the customer 962's. Real works Teams will be
    Jaguar , Mercedes????, Spice, peugoet. The rest of the field this year
    would have been made up of customer or private entries but seeing how
    many of then were Porsche 962's , it seems to me that there is going to
    be a small field. If merc are going it alone one would assume they have
    something up their sleeve or if they don't think the c11 will still
    compete with the extra weight. My guess for the Merc tub would be
    march. If Lola are putting thier own car out in 92 it would seem
    unlikly they would do it, Spice,money would do then good but could they
    do it , toms ??? who know. March must be favourite , have had a very
    succesfull chassis in the nissan and at the moment don't have a chassis
    on the go.
    
    
    Any offers on of information for Daytona accepted.
    
    
    Garry

        
    
    Garry, there is a note in the RACERS conference with suggestions
    about Daytona. There are quite a few replies giving info on 
    airports, car hire, places to stay, nearby towns etc. 
    
    Sorry I can't give you a KP7 but I've no idea where RACERS is as
    I don't read it any more.
    
    I thought Spice beacame doubtful starters for next year as when
    they failed to secure the Lamborghini deal?
    
    A friend tells me Jauguar and JMB have agreed a handicapping deal
    for the V12 for next year. Maybe a few cars will finish Le Mans
    after all :-)?

    

    It's on TIGEMS::RACERS
    
    Outlaw

    Well I fancy going to Le-Man this year.  Anybody know of a good cheap
    way to get there (and back)  I will probably go down in a group (four
    of us, plus two tents one car).
    
    PS: I live in Basingstoke (just in case they charge extra for that)

     Bruce,
    
    
    	Take a walk round the corner.
    
    
    
    	Garry

    I went to the Christmas Grand Prix show last friday,( waste of time and
    money) . Any way I passed a black car , looked like a 962 so I assumed
    it was the alpha porsche. Wrong !!!! A carefull look at it reveled it
    was covered in portman Lambo stickers. It was infact the spice lambo. 
    It has a staggering resemblance to the 962 .
    
    
    Garry

    
    Was it the OLD Spice-Lamborghini? This was a project instigated by the
    Portman Lamborghini importers. The old style Spices did look a lot like
    a 962, but all the photos of the new one show a car more like the
    current like Spice.
    
    Mark

    In that case it must have been the old one, I must admit I didn't read
    the blerb on the car . I was probably too stunned at its resemblance to
    the 962. Still they were obviously hard pushed to get anything there ,
    there was a Rothmans 956 and a whole area on mini racing.
    

      Re .454
>     Was it the OLD Spice-Lamborghini?
    
    Is that a sponsorship deal?
    
    :-)
    

    
    Could be.
    
    It was described as a BRUT'l car! :^)
    
    Mark

    Looks line Fisa have seen ,or at least half admitted thier mistake with 
    GpC for next year. The weight limit for certain cars has been dropped.
    the 100KG limit put on the porsche has been dropped to 950kgs from
    1000. That is making some teams reconsider the option of using the 
    962 with the extra weight. Also the MAZDA 767b with its rotary turbo
    has had its weight limit dropped from 880 to 830kgs.
    
    
    The new pits at Le Mans are well under way and looked to be finished on
    time for the race in June. 
    
    
    
    Jaguar has sorted out sponsorship for the imsa team , the car is a
    nice red and white paint job with BUD LITE sponsorship.
     

    Some Porsche teams (backmarkers mainly) have admitted that their 962
    was already weighing 950kg this year ... hence the interest. They won't
    be able to compete with the works cars obviously.

    Suprise, suprise.

    not enough cars = change of weight restrictions.

        
    Fancy entering a privateer C11?????    

    Well that was my thinking to start with , if you read the mazda article
    in autosport I think ip points more to Le Mans being very short and
    also the fact the people like Joest have ignored the championship.
    
    
    There is another reason, maybe, But I did hear rumblings that Tom
    Walkinshaw had had a chat with JMB about using the V12 at Le Mans
    with some sort of restriction, I know nothing else.
    
    
    Garry
    

    
    Re a few back
    
    	The TSC ssc have aranged a trip to le mans lasting 4 days
    	1 day in paris before the race and 1 day /night in paris after the
    race and the coach to the race which will stay open all night for aprox
    #70 uk per person
    
    		Trev.

    Shock , horror......
    
    
    	Jan Lammers and Andy Wallace going to drive for toyota next
    season..
    
    Although the cars is not going to be ready for the start of the season 
    there was some mention of the 2 of then doing some IMSA racing for Dan
    Gurney.
    
    
    	Who is driving for Jaguar?????????????????

    Derek Warick is!
    
    

    From L'Equipe -
    
    BRM are to return to motor sport with a Group C car. The BRM P351 will
    be ready to race in the last two rounds of the 1991 championship
    (Mexico 6/10 and Japan 27/10).

    catching up on things after the new year , I noticed in autosport that 
    MAZDASPEED will be racing in this years wsc ( or whatever ) . That is
    great news,I don't suppose for one second that the little 1300 4 blade
    twin turbo rotary will do very well ,but I would hate to miss the
    screem of that engine and the bright CHARGE paintwork. And for those 
    who have been to Le Mans for the last 2 years the screem of the little
    chappie down the runway on the friday night.
    
    
    	Garry
    
    
    
    
    

    
    Acheson will race for Jaguar at Daytona.
    
    Jonathan Palmer is expected to drive for Jaguar in the WSC this
    year.

    

    IS ANYONE OUT THERE INTERESTED IN GOING TO LEMANS, WE HAVE 2 SEATS
    AVAILABLE IN OUR LUXURIOUS TRANSIT.  WE WILL BE LEAVING DEC PARK ON 
    THURSDAY NOON, RETURNING MONDAY NIGHT.
    
    FOR FURTHER DETAILS PHONE EITHER TOM (830-3326) OR  MYSELF (830-6341)
    
    CHEERS IAN...