Conference vmszoo::rc

        Re:< Note 951.1 by THOTH::SNOW >

        I promise too!
        
                      _ 
                     / |
        |  _====____/==|
        |-/____________|
        |    |        o \
             O           \ 
                          O
         Hang in there! o_|_
                          |
             Anker      \_|_/

    Eric,
    
    I'm sure it's been described earlier somewhere herein but, for the
    record, would you mind giving us a description, dimensions/specs,
    characteristics, etc., etc., ad nauseum??  Gracias......    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Eric,
    	Put me down for one.  I need another plane like a hole in the head
    but it looks like a fun plane.  Maybe we can have panic races straight
    up and with square corners.
    
    Charlie
    

    I'll take one.  Let's see now...  If I strap 2 battery packs on the
    top wing, then 2 more under the bottom wing and then put lightening
    holes in the fuse...

    I just might be able to squeeze in that Astro Cobalt 60.  :-)

                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |            Happy Landings!
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|              - Dan Miner
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |     " The Earth needs more OZONE,
                      |      /                       not Caster Oil!! "    
                      |_____/

        Re:< Note 951.0 by CSTEAM::HENDERSON "Mode-1 for Ever" >

        So when are we going to get them? I want mine NOW.
        
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        |-/____________|
        |    |        o \
             O           \ 
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         Hang in there! o_|_
                          |
             Anker      \_|_/

>    I am placing the order tomorrow, if my credit card payment made
>    it in time.

Wait - not so fast - hundreds of us in the silent majority are
still thinking about it - how about a one week wait for everyone
to get caught up and read the note?

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
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        Re:< Note 951.10 by K::FISHER "Stop and Smell the Balsa!" >

                The silent  majority is there to be ignored!  Speak up if
        you want one and don't hold him up.
        
                      _ 
                     / |
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        |-/____________|
        |    |        o \
             O           \ 
                          O
         Hang in there! o_|_
                          |
             Anker      \_|_/

    Eric,
    
    I want one also!
    
    
    I'm in St. Louis and can be reached at 314-991-6577 or 445-6577.
    Let me know when and where to send the money.
    
    Also, how are the flaps coupled - electronically I assume.
    
    Chris Spohr

    Eric has pulled up stakes and is moving to MRO4 and his terminal is on
    a truck.  He asked me to pass some Panic info along to all of us
    interested soon to be panic owners:
    
    The Panics are on order as of today!
    
    Delivery in a couple of weeks.
    
    Price:  1000# (just kidding)
    
    
    Eric's new DTN is 297-6180 and his mail stop is MRO4-2/G6
    
    
    He will be off the air until tuesday so let's give him plenty of SH*T
    to read when he gets his terminal back.  
    
    By the way, if you haven't seen the Panic in the air, you're really
    missing a show.  If you want to see Panic, wait until we all get ours
    built and show up at the field together.  Bring the Video Camera!
    
    Charlie For Eric 'Panic' Son of Hender

    I can hardly wait for mine to get here.  I was sold by what I saw
    the plane do in the videos.  We're even considering adding the "Triple
    Thrash" to our next Fun Fly schedule of events.
    
    Also, I swapped engines with a buddy. I now have a Webra .61 Rear
    exhaust with Perry Pump, Carb, and a muffled tuned pipe to power
    the beast.  It oughta really be a handfull...
    
    Chris (the infamous)

Eric,
    What I would like to know is, can a set of rotor blades be added
    to the Panic so it can fly like a real aircraft?  (That should
    stir up something.)

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\>
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

RE:951.15
    
    ALRIGHT! Who's imitating Chris Spohr? I know Chris is toooooo bussyy
    to read much less write notes. Why would Chris buy yet another airplane
    when he couldn't possibly have enought time to fly the planes and
    helicopter he's got now? Fess up and we'll go easy on ya.
    
    
    Dan Eaton

    Ref -1
    >Dan Snow - Delivered last night - probably built by now.
    
    You forgot to add " Will probably be sold by next week. :-).

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\>
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    ERIC,
    
    I'M BACK IN TOWN.  TRYED TO RETURN YOUR CALL, BUT NO ANSWER.  I'LL
    TRY AGAIN LATER.  
    
    IF NO ONE HA JUMPED ON THE 2ND ONE YET, I'LL TAKE IT.
    
    CHRIS

    Well,
    
    I have'nt had much time to work on it, but I have started.
    
    So far the Fuse is built and ready to cover/glass.  One gotcha that
    Dan Snow and I have found is that neither of us thought to drill
    and install the blind nuts in the firewall before assembling the
    fuselage.  And this is I think step 2 in the instructions.
    
    The Stabs are built and ready to cover/glass.
    
    The wings are joined, cap strips on, and trailing edges installed.
    Ready for the wing tip/snap (press studs for you Eric) assembly
    to be put on.
    
    So far it is a quick builder.  As it takes shape, I'm actually starting
    to like the looks of the thing.
    
    My only concern is that I have a Webra .61 Rear Exhaust engine,
    with a pump and tuned pipe for it.  I'm  afraid that the tuned pipe
    may make it difficult to CG since the plane has almost no nose moment.
    
    Anyone out there have a 90 4-stroke that they would be interested
    in swapping engines?
    
    Chris

I'm also using the Black Baron "epoxy".   I've been less than
pleased with it; its been hard to control -- I have an overspray
mess in the garage, it covers poorly, and it takes at least 2
days to dry tack-free.

On the coverage, I sprayed two coats on a Pactra Primer/Surfacer
base and it looks like it needs at least 5 to do the job.  I
wetsanded it last nite and will try again this week.  Could this
be because I shook it for a minute or so, as I would do for
regular spray paint?  Heck, I coulda done a better job with good
ol' Pactra dope, and I could have done all 5 coats in one
session.

    Hmmmmmmm, wonder who you might find who'd be qualified to test-hop
    it for ya'?.  :B^)    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

Dan, please make a product report on the Vanguard PCM when you
can.  That radio is at the top of my list right now.  My wife
even offered enough to get the FM Vanguard at tax time (a miracle
in itself), and I decided to hold out for that one, even if it
means next year. 

    What kind of wing area does a Panic sport? I've had an eye on a
    .60 sized bipe but it's in the 850Sq inche range. How about
    weight?
    
    Tom

    
>>    pack. I'm checking out another pack, and will call Airtronics today
>>    to pinpoint whether it is a bad pack or a problem in the switch
    
    Dan, how is Airtonics gonna help pinpoint the problem any more than
    a voltmeter would?  Am I missing something?
    
    Bill
    
    P.S. GOOD LUCK with the Panic!

    1. The Fuselage is painted Sky Blue, no trim colors yet.  All tail
    feathers, including rudder and elevator are hinged and installed.
    
    2.  Both wings are now covered and servo boxes installed.  Ailerons
    and Flap (yes, 1 big one) need to be covered or painted as of yet.
    
    3.  It looks good so far.  Oh, the wings are covered with Orange
    Econocote.  This plane is so Ugly that it's pretty. AKA "FUGLY"!
    
    4.  Need to purchase a motor mount still.  The RED DOT motor mounts
    have arrived.  Thank You Eric Henderson.  Just what the Doctor ordered.
    
    5.  Eric,  How do you keep the wing incidence the same everytime
    you put the plane together without dragging your incidence meter
    to the field?  Any special tricks?
    
    6.  Hope to have it completed in the next week or two.  Building
    time is limited right now or I'd really dig in.  I can't wait!

    That's fine if you own a truck like you two do. Us others poor folk
    are gonna have to make it fit in a four door sedan
    
    
    
    				Dave .... Who must disassemble
    

    It is starting to look really good now.  Due to rain most of this
    past weekend I got the following completed:
    
    1.  Ailerons and Flap painted and installed. Outer cabane struts
    painted but not fitted yet.
    
    2.  Engine mount installed on the "Red Dot" rubbers.  They are fairly
    firm, which they need to be for the Webra .61 and pipe.
    
    3.  Engine mount has been drilled to accept the engine.  I put in
    2 degrees of right thrust.  I did not measue it, but the kit appears
    to have some built-in down thrust.
    
    4. to complete the plane; I need to: get curved header pipe (the
    I have is straight and misses by a mile), install same, install
    radio, install fuel tank, finish outer cabanes, add a tail wheel,
    and paint some strips on the wings to help on orientation.
    
    5. I plan to send some pictures of it when completed to Eric Henderson.
    
    Chris

    I got my Panic!  After flying Dan,s (I could never fly Eric's due to
    the mode language barrier) and loving it, I plan to build ASAP.  I had
    to give it over to Dan way before I found out what it could do, but he
    gave me a little stick time on the next flight.  The 91 Surpass is a
    good match to the Panic and the reduced fuel consumption over a 60
    2-stroke will come in handy due to the small space for fuel tank.  A 12
    oz tank is about all that will fit.  
    	The sky will never again be safe with the large number of Panics
    that have recently been introduced to the area.
    
    Charlie
    

    Dan,
    	Your Panic's hesitation to snap is probably due more to less than
    required up elevator than to the rudder pushrod deflecting.  This is
    still consistent with the better snaps at lower speeds.  All planes
    snap easier at lower speeds.  Some snap at will when you slow them down
    too much.  (remember the mustang)  Eric's Panic will snap without even
    touching the rudder.  Usually, the rudder helps the snap though.  I had
    to go to more elevator on the Aeromaster to get it to snap properly.
    	The other thing that will help is to move the CG slightly further
    aft.  This will reduce the overall stability and make snaps occur at
    higher speeds.  Be careful if you do this and check the slow speed
    behavior with lots of air between you and the ground.
    
    Charlie (Soon to be with a Panic)
    

    Dan,
    
    	I've always found a piece of fiberglass cloth wrapped from trailing
    edge around the leading edge to the opposite sides' trailing edge
    really helps to stiffen the rudder and support the control horn.
    If the wood crushes I suggest that you cut a hole round in the rudded
    to fit a piece of a Dave Brown fiberglass pust rod. Then take a
    piece of the pushrod and hammer into it a large piece of balsa.
    What happens is that a core developes that goes into the fiberglass
    rod and the remainder of the balsa splinters to the outside. From
    this a section of rod can be cut that is then glued into the rudder.
    Once glued the fiberglass cloth goes over the adjacent surface as
    discribed above. Here then you have a solid attachment point that
    is reenforced and will not crush when the rudder horn is attached.
    
    
    Tom

    To add to the last reply...   To install a pull/pull cablr system
    on the rudder is substitute a hardwood dowl for the balsa and glue
    the dowl into a piece of the fiberglass pushrod. This then is installed
    in the ruder and reenforced with the fiberglass cloth. Then a hole
    is drilled into the hardwood to allow a 2" long 4-40 threaded rod
    to be installed. The cable attachments are then secured to this
    rod.
    
    
    Tom

    As per Erics recomendation I used 4-40 wire for the rudder pushrod.
    plenty stiff enough but it's heavier than the fiberglass pushrod.
    I'm somewhat concerned that it will throw off tail weight enough
    to have to add nose weight. I'm going to try 5-56 rod and see how
    well it works. Perhaps if I strengthen the bends it will suffice
    Any words of wisdom out there????
    
    
    
    						Dave

    Gee why not install a pull/pull cable system?  I'm doing just that
    with a Speeda pattern ship I'm building. I'm trying the new sullivan
    Kevlar cord instead of cable. I also treid something different with
    the control horn. I opted for a new Dubro control horn that uses
    a bolt for fine adjustments.
    
    I started by drilling a hole through the rudder to allow the 2"
    bolt to pass through. Then within the kit from Dubro are some plastic
    bases. They have a cup molded into them to recess the bolt head
    on one side and the nut on the other. I was using the kit in a
    differentmannor so I needed to cot off there cups. I then cut off
    the bolt head and ground it smooth so that I could thread a not
    over it. 
    
    Assembly.  The bolt goes through the rudder with a base and a bnut
    on each side. The nuts are tightened and the bolt is measured so
    that equal ammounts of the bolt protrude from each side. I had to
    cut the cups off so that I could fully tighten the nuts. Once tight
    the plastic clevis recievers can be threaded onto the bolt.
                       
    
    The hottest set up in pattern seem to be cable systems on both the
    rudder and the elevator. Lightest and most positive system going.
    
    I'm working (in my mind) on a tiller system that would mount at
    the back end of the radio compartment. Run Kevlar cables from there
    to the control surfaces and then a short push rod from the tiller
    bar to the servo.
    
    
    
    Tom

    Well, looks like it's up to me to stop the Snow man from stealing
    all the glory!
    
    The Midwest (no hyphen Dan) Panic has flown (about ten flights).
    In a word it could be described as AWESOME, INCREDIBLE, FANTASTIC,
    AND SO ON....
    
    This plane is so user friendly with such a wide speed envelope plus
    aerobatic capabilities too match, that it is hard to believe.
    
    Only a few club members have seen it fly and the word is out that
    it is phenominal.  Several people have expressed a desire to own
    one of these ugly things.
    
    I'll enter more comments in the future as I get some stick time
    on the plane.  Oh yeah!  I think it might be capable of a 540 stall
    turn.  I'll keep you posted.
    
    I'll end by adding that this is such a great plane that even our
    own "Dan Snow" appears to be a proficient flyer.  
    
    "Is it live, or is it Dan?!"   ;-)
    
    Chris
      

    I too have been bitten by the panic bug.  Mine is in mid stages of
    assembly with the wings almost ready to cover and the fuse assembled
    and rounded.  I plan to put my OS 91 Surpass on it so I can chase Dan
    around and be evenly matched.  I flew Dan's panic on it's first test
    flight and I was really impressed.  It was the easiest test flight I
    have had in a while due to it's good nature.  With this plane you can
    have a stable flyer that can still do all of the fun stuff if you want
    it to.  It's much more forgiving than my Aeromaster which requires one
    to stay right on top of it, especially landing in a cross wind.
    
    Charlie
    

    
    	Well, I finally put some faces to some names from the notesfile.
    While in MRO yesterday I managed to hook up with Dave Hughes, Charlie
    Watt, Eric Henderson and Ajai (didn't talk to Ajai, but I know what
    he looks like).  My first impression was....."What a bunch of nice
    guys"!  My final impression was....."What a bunch of nutty guys"!
    A special thanks to Dave for taking me to the field over lunchtime
    and bringing me back to MRO-1.   It was a pleasure meeting all of
    you.
    
    	Anyways, this is the PANIC note and I have to reply to this.
    
    			I SAW THE PANIC FLY!!!!!
    
    	Eric Henderson puts a new meaning to the word FLY!  I've never
    seen a plane do what he makes that PANIC do.  I've also never seen
    a plane withstand that much abuse.  Talk about twist and shout.
    That plane rolled inside and outside, snapped, twisted, spun, flat
    spun, looped, went vertical, horizontal, inverted, extraverted,
    perverted, you name it...it did it and all in the SAME MANEUVER!!!
    
    	I've never seen such things.  Kinda makes normal flying look
    boring.  But I enjoyed seeing it.  Thanks guys.
    
    Ken

    This might sound stupid ..... but .... what is a PANIC???
    
    Forgive me if this is stupid but I have never seen a picture of
    a PANIC. I live in Europe, and fly since quite some time, all kinds
    of different things in all sizes from .10 to 1.20. I also buy US
     magazines from time to time but I do not know what it is.
    
    However by reading all the comments in this note, I got very intersted.
    
    Could someone make a short descritpion of what IT is?? Are there
    kits available, what price, where.??
                                     
    
    Regards
    

    Another Panic will take to the air soon. The fuse is completed and
    glassed with 3/4 oz cloth and CyA. Tailfeathers on, wings built
    complete with those studs. Servos for flaps and alerons installed,
    servos installed in fuse. All Control surfaces hinged. Getting ready
    to prime the fuse, and cover the wings. OS .61 pumper ready to be
    fitted. Can't wait.
    
    
    
    							Dave
    

    My Panic is proceding slowly but surely. (mostly the former)
    The wings are done except for ailerons, flaps, servos and covering.
    The fuse is built and the motor mount is on.  I have the tank
    installation to do next.  Then on to the stab and fin.  Dave will have
    his done long before mine at the rate I'm going.  
    
    Charlie

    Ciao a tutti! ( Hi to all..)
    
    Fus built, tail and wings built (but not covered). Thanks Eric for the
    kit and instructions. Some questions in general, as I am new to this
    business:
    
    Re flaps; I plan to set them fixed and as I progress add servo. Is this
    reasonable?
    
    Re ailerons; Eric, you suggested putting 2 servos in wing. I have never
    done this. Do I just cut away the foam and build a box for the servos
    and then cover as usual? Or can I get away with one servo per 'plans'?
    If I go 1 servo route, how do I attach the damn ailerons to the control
    rods? Do they run inside the ailerons and just epoxy in place? Do they
    need differential throws? Recommend linear of std servos? Are the micro
    servos sufficient if I go the 2 servo setup?
    
    Re power; I plan to use the 4 stroke OS61 I bought from Dan S. Is this
    enough power for a beginner? For the plane (ie. will it fly ok)?
    
    Thanks. Best regards, Ed

    Getting closer.... Both wings covered including flaps and 1 aleron.
    Fuse and tail feathers primed and ready to sand. Speaking of paint
    what does one fill the balsa grain with. Don't say primer, cause
    that is a big waste of paint. I tried something different with the
    aleron torque rods this time. Due to the way they mount. I installed
    the torque rods into the aleron before covering. this made for a real
    neat monocote job that should also help in keeping any castor out of
    this critical area.  I do not get much time to work on it since I'm
    trying to keep peace with the other half. Seems that she prefers me
    sitting with her than hiding in the basement.
    
    
    
    						Dave
    

    
>>    Fuse and tail feathers primed and ready to sand. Speaking of paint
>>    what does one fill the balsa grain with. Don't say primer, cause
>>    that is a big waste of paint. I tried something different with the
    
    I assume you aren't monocoting the fuse/tail feathers.  If that's true,
    I'd glass them with half-ounce cloth.  If you just want to paint the wood,
    you can use sanding sealer to fill the balsa grain and then finish sand.
    I think you'll end up doing a lot more work (fill, sand, fill, sand,
    etc) than just glassing it though.
    
    Bill

    Dave,
    	What did you use to cover the wings.  I'm debating trying monocote
    even though I'll have to be careful not to melt the foam.  I've been
    told that it's possible with sheeted wings if you're careful.  I refuse
    to use Black Barron.
    
    Charlie
    

    Ok all you panic-ers, I have a question on weight: I loaded the
    semi-complete package (Fus, wings,metal parts, tail, engine,
    batts,servos, rec, etc etc ) onto my pasta-scale and come up with a
    weight of approx 2.2 lbs. Is this in the ballpark? I guess with
    finishing etc I'll add a # or so. Trial balance indicates nose
    heavy. 

    Against Erics recomendation I used monocote. What I reasoned was that
    IF I could set the iron to the temp I was going to use to shrink the
    film, and if by placing the iron on the foam it did not melt, then I
    should be home free. Well, I did, and it did'nt so I used it!!!. I
    do not believe that any of the foam suffered from this. What I did do
    was to pull the covering rather tight as I tacked it down. This way I
    had to apply only small amounts of heat for short periods of time to
    shrink the film.
    
    Gottch'as:
    
    On my first wing I used RC56 to glue the cap strips. This seemed ok
    untill I started to shrink the covering. Since I did not use UFO CyA
    to glue the ends of the cap strips to both the wing sheeting and the
    TE. I found that when I shrank the film, the TE would compress against
    the cap strips which would compress against the sheeting. This would
    result is a little pucker in the film where the cap strip met with the
    TE or sheeting. Got most of it out but lesson #1 learned. On the
    second wing I used UFO Cya and kicker to both glue down the cap strips
    and to glue the ends. Works much better. I find that where it is not
    sheeted the wing is rather flimsy.  I wonder if it would be worth the
    weight to sheet the rest of the wing with balsa. sure would strengthen
    it.
    
    According to Eric everything should be set up 0-0-0. I find that the
    engine has some down thrust built into the kit. I am going to shim
    the engine mount (rubber studs) to get me zero thrust.
    
    I'm painting the beast and already I can't see what people see in
    painting. Maybe that's due to the fact that I'm using spray bombs.
    Guess I should invest in a small spray gun. Perhaps that will change
    my mind.
    
    Somebody asked me (from Italy) about the aleron torque rods (sorry I
    tried to reply, could'nt get through, then mistakenly deleted the
    message. At any rate I kept the rod straight for 1 1/2" into the
    aleron. I then put a 90 degree bend in the rod so that I could insert
    it into the aleron width-wise. After grooving out the 1 1/2" area
    at the LE of the aleron, I installed the torque rods and CyA'd them
    in place. This worked real well.
    
    
    
    |       ->| 1 1/2" |<-
    |
    |__________________ ------------------------------------------.
              |        |                                          |
              |        |                                          |
              |        |           ALERON                         |
              |                                                   |
              |                                                   |
              `---------------------------------------------------'          
    
    
When I bent the torque rods I set them on a flat surface to make sure
    that when the end that goes into the aleron in flat on the table
    the other end to the servos was perfectly verticle, and that both
    rods matched. This will insure that I get no differential throw
    out of them that is not wanted.
    
    
    
    Progress report::
    
        All (most) of the darn primer is sanded off. Why did'nt I read
    that note from the desert rat BEFORE I primed the everloving heck
    out of the beast. Should be ready to start painting tonight. (If
    I can convince my wife to let me play planes 2 nights in a row.)
    Both wings completed with flaps and alerons hinged and glued in place.
    Aleron servo installed and control rods hooked up. Need to buy a
    servo for the flaps, but since I have a 5 channel radio not intended
    for flaps I may just fix the flaps with a control rod to a mock-up
    servo made of light-ply and balsa. I glassed the end struts on the
    outside, but I have to wait till the planes painted and the wings
    are installed before I install the snaps into the end struts. 
    
    Getting closer............
    
    
    						Dave
    
    

    Well, Dave and I compared fuses yesterday and he is way ahead of me. 
    I got the pushrods done and the elevator and rudder servos in.  I
    am almost ready for finish sanding and ding filling before glassing.
    If it rains, I'll get that done this weekend.
    
    Charlie
    

    Panic progress report............ 
    
    What's left.  Install radio, one servo, install pushrods, balance CG,
    bolt on engine, check control surface throws, add fuel, get used to a
    tail dragger, and watch it soar.....
    
    
    							Dave
    

    Sounds like you're slightly ahead of me still, Dave.  I just primed my
    fuse with K&B so I have to sand and paint it.  I have already
    completely finished my wings except for the end struts.  I have mounted
    all servos but not the receiver and switch.  I also haven't drilled and
    tapped the engine mount since I want the capability to adjust CG
    slightly by front to back position of the engine on the mount.  
    	We'll have to plan a Panic fly-in and warn all spectators to stay
    away!  The scene could be 'bloody awful'.  I can't wait to take part in
    this madness.  Dan's right about not to worry about it being a tail
    dragger.  Just point and shoot.
    
    Charlie
    

    Dan, Charlie, Dave, Eric, Chris (who?),
    
    Would one of you guys kindly fire me a pic of a panic, pulleeeeeze?!
    I find it's beyond my comprehension to put an image to this marvel;
    could anything as ugly asdescriptions indicate _really_ be such
    a virtuoso?  Apparently so but my curiosity is piqued to the pain-level
    regarding its _actual_ appearance.  Someone take pity on the Rat
    and fire a Panic pic to PNO/E4.   Muchicimas gracias.........   

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    MAYBE we can do better than that. I'm planning on meeting Eric and
    Dan S. at the CMRCM field tomorrow for some flying. That means
    two Panic's. If I can get Eric to bring his video camera, I'll
    donate a tape and we'll get some "talkies" of the Panic's doing
    their stuff. You won't be dissapointed.
    
    Steve

    
    Believe me Al, they're UGLY.  But they do fly nice.  I too find it
    hard to understand the Panic panic, but it sure is happening around
    here.  I'd like to have one as a fun fly plane but I'd really rather
    have someone else build it for me.  Then I could say that I had nothing
    to do with building that ugly thing.  Well, they really aren't _that_
    bad...  or are they?  Anyhow, I think I'll avoid the club field when
    the four of 'em get together.  Not only are they ugly but they seem
    to bring out insane tendencies in their pilots.  Even mild mannered
    Dan Snow is affected by it.  Gotta run now, it's cool, dry, sunny and
    calm and time for some afternoon flying.
    
    Bill
    
    P.S. Once the film gets developed I'll be sending pics of the SS20
         paint job so you can see how not to do it :-).

    Bill, That's probably because the panic looks wild while flying
    like a plane that's had it's transmitter turned off :-)
    
    
    Tom

    Well Dan,
    	Mine ain't quite ready.  It's so close I can taste it though.  I
    wet sanded the primer (K&B) and it's ready for color coat.  Wings are
    done complete with ailerons, flap, and servos installed.  For me, the
    painting step is a big hurdle since I don't like to paint and I don't
    really have a place set up to do it.  I may throw some plastic up in
    the garage and shoot in there.  The lighting there is the pitts though.
    I'm not really going for perfection. (What? an imperfect Panic?)  I am
    trying to learn how to do glass/epoxy/paint finishing though.  I'd
    rather learn by screwing up the paint job on a Panic.
    	Dan, your job (and Eric's and Dave's) is to make sure that your
    Panic survives until we get to do the 4 panic trick.  We might even be
    able to sell tickets to that show.  The final stunt will be a 4 Panic
    inverted flat spin with full power on.  I wonder how many will pull
    out?
    
    
    Charlie
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Inverted spins then pull out... sounds like PANIC INTERRUPTIS. Sounds
    risky for a least a couple of weeks worth of training.
    
    
    							Dave
    

    Cmon Dave,
    	Where's your spirit of adventure?  
    
    Bill Lewis helped me spray my fuse tonight so I'm another step closer
    to being done!  It's all white now, waiting for a little color tomorrow
    night.  I'm not going to get fancy, just add a little red to the tail
    feathers for visibility.  Then if all goes well, I'll spray clear Epoxy
    of the K&B variety on Wed evening.  That will do it for painting the
    fuse.  It's possible that it might be flying by friday.  (but I
    wouldn't lay odds on it quite yet)
    
    Charlie
    

    
    We had some interesting paint scheme ideas for the Panic.  I think
    Charlie's was the best one - to have a spray gun fight with the panic
    in the middle.  But we wimped out and just painted it white (there's
    still time though, Charlie!).  I was trying to help Charlie with his
    spray technique and did one spot on the fuse, which I put on too heavy
    and caused a sag.  Some help, eh?  I think it was because he had more
    air pressure than I can get out of my cheap pump/tank compressor system
    and his paint went on faster.  After I left him alone he did fine.
    At this point it looks too good for a panic, so Charlie had better do
    a real bad masking/paint job tonight to do it justice.  I hope he
    leaves the sag instead of sanding it off so I can say I left my mark
    on it!
    
    Bill

    Bill,
    	Don't worry, I screwed it up pretty good.  First off, the white
    paint didn't dry properly probably due to our putting too much
    plasticizer in the paint.  I wanted a rubber panic anyway.  Turns
    better that way.  I waited a day, masked and sprayed the red last
    night.  The red went on nicely and it even dried properly in about 15
    minutes.  The white still was tacky and you could leave finger prints
    in it.  I tried leaving the thing out in the sun hanging on my
    clothsline.  Fortunately, the thunder storm missed and it didn't get
    waterlogged.  Still Sticky!  Then I tried wet sanding.  THis didn't
    work too well because even with water, the sandpaper clogged with the
    sticky paint.  Since the red went on well over the sticky white, I
    decided to go for it and spray the clear over the sticky white.  
    (K & B) I just got done doing that.  The clear went on real nicely! 
    I'm sorta wishing I had done the whole thing with K & B after spraying
    the clear.  The other problem I had was spraying in the garage. 
    Tonight, since I was doing the last coat, the moths showed up and did a
    dance on my clear coat while I was spraying.  
    	The next panic will get Bill and my paint fight color coat.  What
    we need is a stand that spins slowly and three people with fully loaded
    spray guns all aimed at the panic.  If that doesn't work, we could use
    paint darts and shoot the thing a few dozen times.
    	Anyway, barring any other difficulty, the panic is now done with
    the part I hate - the painting.  Tomorrow, I can get back to the fun
    stuff like mounting the engine, radio, and landing gear.  Then, I only
    have to mount the wings and do the end struts.  I don't think I'm going
    to enjoy that one either.
    	Yesterday, I witnessed three - count em 1 - 2 - 3  Panics in the
    air at one time.  Dan and Eric managed a scare over the runway, one
    going east, the other west at the same altitude.  Fortunately, they
    were not in exactly the same place but it looked pretty close from my
    vantage point.
    
    So long for now
    
    Charlie

    Dan Snow.......You have gone mad... Charlie I suggest the following for
    the next panic paint job. Have Eric, (with his OS engine, not that
    nasty WEBRA) go verticle and hover holding the panic fuse as steady
    as possible. (no problem right Eric!) Then Dan, and I will
    strap spray cans of the appropriate colors onto our panics. Using the
    sixth channel we will proceed to paint the fuse in mid air. When Eric
    runs low on fuel, it will be necessary for you to refuel him with your
    panic in mid-air. This way he can continue to fly around with the fuse
    trailing behind until it's dry enough to land. 
    
    
    						Dave
    
      

Actually Kevin is into these "Capture the Flag" games where everybody
has goggles and guns that shoot paint pellets.

You could take the Panic to a Fun Fly and arm the audience with
paint pellet guns (we could even charge them to take shots like
the politician in the dunking tank) and Eric could make low passes
over the crowd.  

Warning - try to arm the audience with the same color!

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

RE : back a few.

>    	Yesterday, I witnessed three - count em 1 - 2 - 3  Panics in the
>    air at one time.  Dan and Eric managed a scare over the runway, one

     For those who didn't/couldn't attend the Sandown Model Fair (that's here
in the good ol' U.K.) this year, or have not had any other opportunity to
experience the incredible antics of the _Official_ Panic Display Team (them
guys what can be blamed for its conception)... you wanna see 6 (SIX!)
tooled-up Panics (all running mean motors with meaner tuned pipes) attempting
formation frolics. These guys are *MENTAL* (with a capital 'Crazy')! 

    The display begins with what they call the Mass Panic, which involves 6
pilots, standing about 4 or 5 feet apart holding their mean machines by the
top wing, nose pointing skywards, apply full welly, and just let go all at
once. Twelve wings are hauled vertically into the air to perform a succession
of formation manoeuvres (the best RC formation flying I have seen) including
lots of loops, stall turns, high speed inverted low passes, knife-edges,
touch an' gos, prop-hangs et al (you name it - they dood it). It was too long
ago to recall the full spectrum of their efforts, but I will always remember
the last one down :- This chap made quite a few attempts at a vertical
descent from a prop-hang, but (due to the extremes of the power band with the
tuned motor) was, only just, unable to bring his plane back to earth
backwards in a controlled manner, so instead he just pulled out of the
prop-hang, did a small tight circuit, shut off the motor and glided gently in
towards himself, then calmly reached out one hand and plucked the Panic out
of the sky by its nose (to tumultuous applause). 

    So keep at it lads, I expect to see some Inter-continental Panic Team
Championships announced by the end of the year :-)

Ken (if I could _really_ fly, I'd Panic!)

    That will take a LOT of practice to pull stunts like that. This sounds
    like an incentive to "practice.....practice.....practice!
    
    
    						Dave
    

    Well, I saw it with my own two eyes (several times), but I will
    be available Saturday, Monday, and Tuesday if we can hook up with
    Eric.
    
    Steve

>    or the CMRCM field with a video camera?  I have run into a couple
>    of doubting tom's that refuse to believe the Snow-Turn is possible
>    until they see it.

    Sorry to rain on the parade, but...

    If you check out the article on the "Swingee", I think it's called,
    forward swept wing plane featured in the August 89 MA, they describe a
    stunt that seems very much like the independently developed, but
    lamentabley not patentable, Snow-Job, er, uh, Turn.  They called it a
    "Yaw Turn", I think.

    

    
    
    I think what they are talking abou in MA is a turn with the wings
    parallel to the ground. Not seeing it but reading the accounts
    Dan's turn in from a knife edge using rudder to reverse direction.
    is this correct dan?
    
    
    Tom

    
    
>    Dan's turn in from a knife edge using rudder to reverse direction.
>    is this correct dan?
    
    


    Tom,  Dan's turn is not from knife edge.  His wings are level with the
ground.  Quite impressive.



		Jim

    OK, My Mistake.
    
    
    Tom

    I'd like to publicly than Dan Snow, Dave Hartwell, Steve Smith and,
    especially, Eric Henderson for taking the time/trouble to put together
    and send me the great video on the Panic.  I _thoroughly_ enjoyed it!!
    Was impressed to see Dan, who was a struggling newcomer when I first
    discovered the notes_file some 3-years back, fly the Panic with such
    self confidence...way to go Dan!  (And I'm terribly sad to hear you
    lost the bird to such an unfortunate circumstance as a mid-air.)
    
    Steve, yer' lookin' mighty good for a mere rookie :B^)...keep up the
    _good_ work!
    
    Eric, thanx again fer' yer video efforts.  Actually, I didn't find the
    Panic _quite_ as ugly as described though I'll admit it's no beauty
    queen.  It's certainly no worse than an Ugly-Stik.  It certainly is
    capable of some astonishing performance; I'd wager you could fly an
    entire aerobatic routine "inside" a silo!  ;b^)   

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

Re: .105

>>I'd wager you could fly an entire aerobatic routine "inside" a silo! 

I thought that was what we did up here in the crowded, heavily treed northeast
(by desert rat standards ;^)

    As stated in the engine note, I got to the field just as Charlie,
    Eric and Bill were packing up to go back to work. I was by myslef
    for awhile then Mo (don't know the last name) showed up with his
    Sig 1/4 scale cub. He put three or four flights on the cub when
    Harvie T. showed up. On the subsequent flight, Harvie was flying,
    doing some gentle manuevers when all of a sudden the right wing
    detached itself from the fuse. Needless to say, the cub spiraled
    straight in. Surprisingly, the only damage was from about the leading
    edge forward. Unfortunately, the engine was totally destroyed. There
    wasn't a part on it that wasn't broken. Building a new nose, and
    buying a new engine should get him back in the air. The screw holding
    the strut to the bottom of the fuse came out which caused the wing
    to just snap.

    
    What, no notes about Charlie's Panic?  Jeeze, you guys must be working
    too hard or something!  Well, now that I'm on vacation...
    He flew it today but I think it's a little sick.  It doesn't fly
    anywhere near the typical Panic insanity with Charlie at the sticks.
    It actually was flying like a _real_ airplane!  Goes good with
    the 91 surpass he put in it.  Boy, now that a sane and reasonable
    person like Charlie has a Panic I'm going to have to really start
    thinking about building one :-)!  Hey Eric, good to see you end your
    hiatus from RC notes!
    
    Bill
    
    P.S. Al, you shouldn't have been so nice to the Panic people
         re: their appearance, it will only encourage them more!
    
    P.P.S.S. Dan, mind if I ask how you talk your wife into all
    	those RC expenses?  Can you teach me how?  PLEASE????
    	I want a PCM and a real good engine:-)!  Sorry about the demise
    	of the Snow Panic, I never got a chance to see it after the
    	first repair.  What do you have in mind for the Super Panic
    	aside from the 120?  Any structural changes?

    If there ever exists such an animal, then Charlie's Panic is the best
    lookin' I have ever seen, with a groovy paint job to boot.
    
    When Charlie first announced he would build a
    Panic, I told him that it would be the best finished one in this part
    of Mass, but he said no, this one would be slapped together.
    
    Figure I know Charlie better than himself. :-)
    
    ajai

    
>>    I didn't have to talk the wife into anything! It was simply
>>    a case of selling two radios, two engines and a plane. ;8^)
    
    Thanks Dan, I'll have to try that!  Now if I can just find something
    to sell...
    
    Looking forward to seeing the new Panic.  I expect it will be the
    talk of the club, which will induce Eric to try something new, which
    will in turn get you going, which...  boy, what a monster this
    could lead to!  I can envision Eric trying to fit a Volkswagen engine
    on that nose!
    
    Charlie gave me some stick time on his Panic yesterday.  It was a lot
    of fun, I was really surprised that virtually _no_ down elevator
    is required to keep it inverted.  I was doing rolls at a ridiculously
    fast rate when Charlie said "wanna try high rate aileron now?"!!!
    Looks like a good fun-fly plane, which may talk me into scratch-
    building one this winter (if Charlie decides to do it).  
    
    Has anybody noticed the awesome weather all week?  Cool, dry, sunny -
    amazing that it happened while I am on vacation.  Oh well, time to
    get back to work on the basement and airplanes.
    
    Bill

    A tardy update on my Panic:
    
    The maiden flight was Wed at lunchtime.  I felt terrible from working
    all night the night before to finish it.  I still had a couple of loose
    ends at checkout time.  The control throws weren't set up right so I
    did that at the field.  Also, I hadn't even turned over the new OS91.
    The weathere was perfect for test flying so I only ran the thing for
    four minutes before putting it up.  It flew fine but I wasn't feeling
    up to really sorting it out.  The spectators were complaining that it
    wasn't flying Panic-like enough.  I saved that for Yesterday afternoon!
    	Thursday afternoon was again perfect!  I ran a half gallon of fuel
    through the Panic and I started having fun with it.  What a Blast!
    I still need to do a couple of adjustments, but It now is behaving like
    a Panic and my smooth flying skills are going out the window.
    
    Charlie

    Dan,
    
    Is the misspelling of vertical intentional??  ;b^}    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Al,
    
    	It is incorrect, but I think worse than you suspect. It should
    say vertiGO.
    
    Steve

    Ready to test fly my PANICO this weekend! Question to PANIC-ers:
    How many rubberbands on each wing? Have a 4stroke OS61 in front.
    
    Grazie mille for all the direct and indirect help, Ed
    

  Dan,
  
  Regarding your statement....

    "While a Panic is very
    solid and predictable in the air,..."

  ARE YOU KIDDING???!?!?!?!!

  The Panic is THE MOST unpredictable plane I have ever seen! 8^)  The only
one I have seen that was the least bit predictable was Charlies.  But as 
soon as he did a few high-G maneuvers with it, it was warped pretty bad and
now it won't fly in a straight line no matter what!  8^) :^)

  Give me a gentle Kadet Sr.!  You can predict its flight path 10 mins in
advance!




			Jim

    
>>    ...I'm trying the new Loc-Tite Epoxy Finishing
>>    resin on the plane, and the stuff is great!
    
    Dan, how about some more details on this stuff?  Does it
    need to be thinned?  How fast does it cure?  How well does it
    sand, etc???  Come to think of it, please respond in the
    "Let Us Spray" note.
    
    Bill

    No luck on maiden flight due to the local airport where the club has a
    small field being used for a full-scale airshow. Did get the engine and
    controls sorted out on the ground and convinced a local aerobatic type
    to take it up first chance. May miss next weekend due to the Schneider
    Cup in'tls, since all will be spectators; at the nearby lake.
    Incidently, any thought re. putting pontoons on a Panic? All up weight
    is right at 6 pounds (without fuel). Are there stock/all purpose
    pontoons avail. in the U.S.? 
    
    Many comments from the members and they just can't wait to see it
    fly. I tried, in my halting Italian, to explain some of the antics
    discussed in this file but they just shook their heads and said
    'vedremo' (We'll see..). All controls at set for minimum throw and
    I have the flaps mechanically connected to the elevator servo al la
    C/L. Covered the wings with 1mm birch and the fuse with
    nylon/dope.
    
    Soloed my first 2 powered gliders last month. I was so busy sorting out
    conflicting 'helpful' shouts from the other flyers, translating what
    they were saying while figuring out my own right/left, coming/going
    that I landed before I had the time to worry! Managed 3 more flights
    then got smug and managed to stall on takeoff my 2nd plane and plowed
    into the ground. Not too much damage and it gave me an excuse to buy
    a fancy aluminum motor mount.
    
    Will be back and thanks for all the help and advise. Ciao, Ed

Does this mean that we should get our bids into RC_SWAP now for next wednesday's 
posting? 

			~   ~
			'   '
			  @
			\___/

    Ain't it great having Eric "the bard" back?  Welcome back, amigo...I've
    missed this stuff!  :B^)    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    I have been reading the PANIC notes as they are posted for the last
    month or two.  Could someone give me a description of a PANIC or
    who makes it, where I could see one etc?    Is there a note that
    explains it?  Sounds like an interesting plane - I'd like to find
    out more.
    
    -JR

    No Eric Dave is still alive and well. Been busy lately so it's been
    short on the flying. I'm still up on OS. My .61 runs real fine thank
    you. If I read Tom T's note correctly, I have the newer version of the
    .61.  One nice thing about 2 strokes. If ya don't like the performance
    then add nitro. Perhaps some 35% nitro will tame those terrible power
    to weight ratio 4 strokers.
    
    
    						Dave

    Oh boy, here we go. Another reveloution. Let's all meet at CMRCM
    this Sunday. I'll bring the tea.
    
    Steve

    Dan,
    
    And to think you only had to DOUBLE yer' displacement to show them
    thar' "pesky" .60 2-C's where to get off.  Maybe Dave and Chris should
    go to .90 or 1.08 2-C's...whatcha' gonna' do then, amigo?  Do they make
    a 2.16 4-C??  ;b^}  ;b^}
    
    But seriously, sounds like yer' gonna' have a fire-breathin' ship
    there.  Best of luck with the maiden flights, par'ner.   

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    
    Yes, and please try to keep all your fingers, Dan.
    
    Bill
    

Dan, I am using Hobbypoxy, which Phlyin' Phil says is so
compatible with K&B that both color and hardener can be used
interchangeably.

Just wanted to comment that I sprayed my AMA numbers on a new
foam wing for Son of Quick Stick and used contact paper for the
mask.  I learned this one from our Spray note...its easily the
best and cleanest mask I've ever used, with very sharp lines.  I
didn't even go around the edges with the opposite color like you
need to do with tape, etc.

Also, there was no lifitng of the under color when I pulled the
mask.  

Interesting that you were able to spray over so quickly.  I had
to do it in two sessions because I was getting runs (no
wisecracks!).  Epoxy is pretty wonderful stuff, now I have a
small collection of Aerogloss dope bottles to dispose of.

BTW -- Its beginning to look like I'll be doing pennance for
disparaging the K&B name -- the blasted thing is running like a
watch.  Ashes and sackcloth are standing by.

After viewing the June 89 DECRCM video tape last night I have to comment about
the misconception that Panics are ugly.

Panics aren't ugly, certain implementations are ugly ;^)

Now that I've made several new friends...

1) Where does one get a Panic? How Much? (I'm tired of waiting for Dan's RC_SWAP
					entry for Super Panic ;^)
2) engine requirements? (could I use my Webra .61 2 cycle?)
3) Are flaps part of the general design?
4) Are they suited to rough fields?

Having heard (in here) of Eric's wing bending performances, are you within reach
of shedding/shredding major surfaces? I had this plane once that was somewhat
hotter than my flying and I decided (while at about 500') to make a full throttle 
flyby. I came screaming down and the wing pulled out (in more ways than one) and
the fuselage buried itself. Right before this I stated "Watch this!". All the
kids watching cheered at the great show ;^)

Inbetween watching Dan do his thing with the new SPII, I put in two
    flights on the Train-Air. It was again one of those days when the
    wind was testing you every step of the way. On several passes over
    the field, the train-air was doing a shake, rattle, and roll routine
    as it went by. The first landing was challenging, but uneventful.
    The second landing was a heart stopper. Due to the direction of
    the wind which was about 45 degrees across the field, the landing
    pattern was coming in over the "point". You basically extend your
    base leg and make your final on a diagonal approach across the field.
    Just after turning onto the final approach, I got caught in a down
    draft which was more like wind shear. I got sucked down about 50
    feet before I could recover with not a whole lot of room to spare.
    Coming out of a situation like that your generally all discombobulated
    so the next 50 yards or so of the approach was spent recovering
    from that. Once that was straightened out, the wind saw fit to hit
    me a couple more times before I finally managed to set it down on
    the field. I love being challanged like that and coming out a winner.
    That's why I immediately put everything back into the car and hung
    up flying for the night.
    
    The SPII looks great and will definately be a screamer. Even flying
    through the air, it looks like a drag car sitting at the lights
    reving the engine and jumping forward little by little. This thing
    just wants to break free and go.
    
    I'll be facing a similar situation in a couple of weeks when I
    transition from the Train-Air 40 to a Super Kaos 60. This will be
    Dan's opportunity to get me back for all the jabs he's been getting
    from me lately.
    
    Steve

    "Truly like a ballerina"! 
    
    The Panico di Italia flew (and flew, and flew..) this weekend! At first
    the folks here were unsure and I finally had to pursuade a member (who
    flies WWI scales, Schneider cup racers etc) to take it up. After the
    initial shakedown he went up again and started doing (from what I can
    gather for this file..) Panic-type things and laughing all the time! He
    suggested a few minor changes (limit the flap movement a bit, lower the
    slow engine adjust) and went home. Later (Sat.) my instructor arrived
    and looked somewhat amazed that I wanted to semi-graduate from my motor
    gliders to this non-scale two winged probably difficult to fly
    appropriately named aeroplane. However he was game and after a ground
    check shrugged his shoulders and we walked to the pavement, I put it
    down and he gave it some gas and, quick as bob's your uncle it was up.
    Then he started playing, doing slow manuevers, wide loops, outside
    loops, stall turns and all sorts of things I can't name. He was
    laughing and the folks in the club were cheering him on. Then he gave
    the box to me. Oh god! However he talked me through the slow stuff and
    told me to remember how the gliders felt and to think further ahead.
    Well, what a blast! I was most assuredly 'over-flying' my capabilities
    but waas at least 2-3 mistakes high but nothing bad happened! He talked
    me through a few practice passes and took over for landing. Well,
    rather than continue this blow-by-blow, suffice to say we flew some
    more and then called it a day. Sunday two other guys showed up who fly
    in pattern contests and had heard all about the Panico and asked for
    some time! So they (and I, when I could get the box back! I may just
    have to get another for a club plane..) flew and flew and then flew
    some more! They were all laughing and having a ball. Me too!
    
    My instructor, an old time full-size bipe flyer, summed it all up with
    the 'Ballerina" quote. Truly an amazing plane and, with the OS FS61,
    a gentile flyer. I bet it flew a total of 2-3 hours those days with
    zero problems. And Dan S, your (ex) engine runs perfectly, In fact there
    were several other 4 strokes there but this was the only one that
    started within 2 flips and continued to run throughout the flights
    without missing a beat. 
    
    Thanks to all in this notes file for the guidance, direct and indirect!
    
    I am laughing even as I write this! I think everyone should fly a Panic
    for mental health.
    
    Best regards to all. Pleasant flying and good landings!
    
    Ciao, panic-ED
           

    A couple of comments and questions: 
    
    On one grass-landing the plane flipped and the vert stab came forward
    (ie. ripped out). A field fix, which remains, was to add a triangular
    piece of ply to form a gusset, inlet into the fuse and fit against the
    stab. Also, against Eric's recommendation, I have tapered the after
    parts of the flying surfaces. This was strongly recommended by the
    locals, even after I tried explaining Eric's message about efficiency
    etc. Will give it a go this weekend and report results.
    
    Regarding the flaps: I have them mechanically coupled to the elev. and
    the recommendation is to limit their movement to about 1/2 that of the
    elev, which I have done as it was simple and quick. The problem stated,
    as best as I can translate, was that in landing at slow speeds the
    plane tended to bloom-up too much, making landing somewhat difficult
    for a beginner. Perhaps I should have added that additional servo.
    We'll see. One comment was that the landiings seemed a bit 'hot' but
    this may have been caused by the idle speed not being low enough.
    
    Comments/ideas?
    
    Ciao, Panic-ED

    Oh! Me-oh-my...! I suspect their real reason for tapering was more on
    the aesthetic effect (Italian designs and all that) rather than other
    more scientific aspects. They even tried to convince me to add a
    cowling..!!! However, when in Rome... If there is a problem it is a
    pretty easy fix to add on a piece of square stock...and it gives me
    something to do in the evenings...
    
    Dan, I'm running on 10% nitro with a 12x6 nylon. Is this about right?
    Re the 4-owner engine: The first three must have taken good care of it!
    
    Ciao, Panic-ED

>    Re the 4-owner engine: The first three must have taken good care of it!

Thank you - just squirt a little Reslone in the carb when it's running and you
will get all your compression back for another week! :-)

Bye          
Kay R. Fisher
(Engine Care Consultant)
================================================================================

    Got my first taste of a Panic going vertical from essentially a dead
    stop. Comming in for a landing in yesterdays gusty winds was both
    fun and challenging. Fun in that if careful, you could hover it like
    a helicopter. Challenging, in that the wind was gusty and changed
    directions often. At any rate, I was hovering in for a landing when
    the wind died, and I was about to drop from 10 feet or so. Nailed
    the throttle and pointed it staight up. I was surprized to see it
    simply start climbing relatively straight. This was fun but not that
    easy, as I very shortly needed to use the wings to keep it up as
    I found it to be a challenge to fly without wings. Eric makes it
    look so easy, it's not.
    
    PS: Almost got it to fly backwards yesterday, but not quite. Still
        about 1/2 MPH forward airspeed t'aint bad.
    
    
    
    			Love that OS .61 Pumper........ Dave
    

    Gee Eric, it sure must be tough to land on *those* wheels!
    
    I'm surprised it flies so well with a flat bottom and FLAT TOP wing!!
    But I guess if you put a big enough engine on anything, it'll fly!
    
    cheers!
    

That's why the vertical performance is so important!

Eric,

Would it be possible to get a set of plans? This really sounds like a plane I'd
enjoy. I really like heavy-duty sport flying (I haven't ripped the wings off my
Aerostar yet, but I'm trying) and this sounds like a great plane for it. I don't
want the kit (at least not yet), and the plans would let me build it when I get
around to it without laying out for the kit right now.

Thanks,
Randy

I asked the same question of Dan Snow off-line and was told that they didn't
come with any. After seeing SPII up close and personal, I understand why. Slab
tail feathers and fuselage sides, no formers in the fuselage other than the 
firewall, sheeted and cap stripped foam core wings. I looks like something you 
could put together in an afternoon and fly the next day.

951.56 has the Canada distributer info which I've given to my wife for her
Xmas shopping list. I'm going to the fun-fly sunday so I can see one in the
air. 2 straight wings and a box fuselage with rectangular, unrounded tail
feathers wouldn't be hard to copy. Dan Snow even went with plate aluminum
landing gear due to attachment constraints. I've been considering scratch
building one from some rough dimensions from one of the ones that exist. Might
be a little lighter with built-up wings too!

Anybody else interested in trying to put together a "Panic Too"?

I've done foam cores that way before and find that 1/64th" ply makes a nice 
contact cement covering. My only concern is the cost of the kit for the amount
of material it really involves. When you look at some of the available 
pre-constructed planes in Tower Talk at close to the same money it seems high.

I feel I could grab most of the materials piecemeal and get it built from
scratch without the large single impact on the checkbook (Gee, honey I just
need... to finish it). If the design isn't copyrighted and the patterns (or
even the dimensions since everything is square) are available, I'd like to
try it.

As one of the others mentioned about "fun fly" airplanes, I've got 2 Webra .20's
that might make for an interesting "Panic Jr."

    Well, I finally solo-ed the PANICO! However the pilot would have been
    killed in the landing! Those wing end pieces really work! After my
    first landing many heads were shaking in anticipation of the rebuild
    I would be facing; however all were amazed (me too!) that the only
    evidence of the landing was the end panels flew off and a slightly
    bent uc. So I tried again and this time the pilot -may- have survived
    the 'landing'. Takeoffs were easier than I anticipated, probably due
    to the lack of wind. So, never satisfied, I changed from mechanical
    linkage to servo on the flaps. Coupled they acted the same but...
    
    There was an guy there who flew pattern contests and, after some bi-lingual
    discussions, he convinced me to change all the throws from beginner
    (ie. move very little) to regular and to test out the separate
    flap function now available. MY GOD! was the comment of the day. For
    laughs there was another guy with a Bucker Jungmeister/OS90 there
    and they put an a pretty good dog-fight, albeit the PANICO was slower
    but could confuse the enemy no end... and could almost hover on
    landing. The throws are back to normal until the pilot can survive
    a few landings. I ordered another kit and will pickup an OS90 when
    next in US.
    
    	Ciao, Panic-Ed

    re -.1:
    	It sounds like the Panico is tearing up the skys (and the terra
    firma).  You mentioned picking up an OS 90 (4-stroke, I assume) and I
    just wanted to recommend that you make sure you get the OS91 Surpass
    which is the newer, improved version.  I am flying my Panic with this
    engine and I like it very much.  It has much more power than the old
    OS90 and it is very easy to run as well.  You can go vertical right
    after takeoff but the 1.20 powered Panics go by in a hurry. 
    Performance with the 91 is more than adequate, however.  One nice
    feature with a 4-stroke powered Panic is that you can get long flights
    with the supplied 10 oz tank.  It's hard to fit anything bigger without
    doing some mods to the fuse.
    
    Charlie
    

    ok boys,i find it hard to belive any bipe flys better than a
    aeromonster but i,ll bite.can i get one in the states or do
    i have to call England ? MR Snow was nice enought to give me
    the number for a hobby shop there,but i hate to spend this
    months hobby money on a phone call.
      doe,s it build easier than an aeromaster?
    
                                        happy flying
    
                                          paul morin
              

>      doe,s it build easier than an Aeromaster?

My lord yes - it builds much easier than an Aeromaster.
It has no cowl!
It has no ribs!
It has no wheel pants! (I must admit I never built mine).
It has no tail wheel!
It has rounded edges! (well a few)
It has no open structure!

The Aeromasters look scale.
The Panics look fun.
If Aeromasters were easy to build Kevin wouldn't have kept his
in the box for over a year.  If he had a Panic it would be flying
in two weeks.

Bye
Kay R. Fisher
Who just finished painting his Aeromaster Cowl (again).

    thanks kay,you and Dan sold me.
    

    Problem you will have is that once you fly the Panic, you will end up
    puttin yer aeromaster away.. The darn thing is just so capable of so
    many differnt things that you never get bored, you can show off, and
    have a blast all at the same time.
    
    
    						Dave, who knows....
    

        Re:            <<< Note 951.176 by TARKIN::HARTWELL "Dave Hartwell" >>>

        Bull, bull, bull, bull,
        
                Some people  are  going  to  prefer  Panics,  others will
        prefer  Aeromasters,  just  like  some  people  like  to  grossly
        overpower their planes and  others  fly gliders.  The trick is to
        think a little about what  it  is  that you enjoy and then decide
        what plane best matches your desires.
        
        
                      _ 
                     / |
           _----____/==|
         /__====------- 
             |-          
            /              
           /               
         Hang in there!      
                           
             Anker           

    ok boys and girls,who do i have to kill to get my hands on a
    deluxe panic kit???????? I wrote a note to Harry brooks at
    Sussex England,and never got a answer,and all this good building
    time is going to waste..any idea where i can get one.
    
    
    
                                                   thanks  
    
                                                   paul
      

    RE: .183 
>    For those of you that can't quite bring themselves to build a Panic
>    there is an alternative. The Chris Foss "WOTS-WOT". 

    OK, I'll bite.  What's a "WOTS-WOT" and how does it look and fly?
    What sized engine is required?

    Is there a kit that flies like a Panic using only a .45 engine?

                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |            Happy Landings!
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|              - Dan Miner
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |     " The Earth needs more OZONE,
                      |      /                       not Caster Oil!! "    
                      |_____/

Re: Note 951.184 by ROCK::MINER "Electric = No more glow-glop" >>>

>    Is there a kit that flies like a Panic using only a .45 engine?

After seeing Eric's Panic on video I suggest that Don Muddiman's Flying
Machine will come very close. I think the Hot's series may be similar; any body 
got one.

I have a Flying Machine and it is does everything, YEERRRYYY quick.

John

    Hokay,
    
    My super-complete do-it-yourself Panic kit arrived Monday. I've got
    wing cores, a plan sheet for all parts, a set of instructions, and
    a list of helpful hints from good ole Evil E. After reviewing the
    plans and hints and this entire note I still have a few questions.
    
    Here goes:
    	1. Wing sheeting. Normal procedure is to sheet and then join. I am
    	   thinking of joining the foam halves and then sheeting the
    	   leading edges with a single four foot piece of 1/16 balsa. Any
    	   comments? 1/16 x 1/4 for cap strips.
    
    	2. Wing attachment. I hate rubber bands (elastics to those of the
    	   English persuasion). I have no trouble figuring out how to mod
    	   fuse and cabanes for bolts, but how does one strengthen the wing
    	   for them?
    
	3. Power. Hows about a SuperTigre 74 sound?
    
    	4. Tail treatment. I intend to reshape the fin and rudder, extend
    	   the fin so I can have a steerable tail wheel and split the
    	   elevator to accomodate it any words of wisdom?
    
    Now for a progress report:
    
    The first order of business is to create router templates for all the
    major parts. With this done I can re-create any part exactly and
    quickly. I am going to do this because the Panic looks like the type
    of plane that I'll always want one of. I'll also make wing templates
    so that I can cut cores as necessary. Once this is done its building
    time. I expect to have the first Colorado Panic flyable in 3 or 4
    weeks.
    
    Bye,
    Randy

Well, I got the Panic fuse built over the weekend, and I have one thing to say:

	THIS IS A JOKE, RIGHT!?

What person, in his right mind, would cram a 120FS in a petite little plane
like this? Why? All I can figure out is that it is some ego-boosting-macho-
phallic-thing. Or maybe Dan S. simply played a cruel joke on me and sent me
a half size set of plans. A 120 in a 34" fuse?  Well I'm stuck now cause my
firewall is drilled, blind nutted, and installed for a motor mount sized to
fit the Super Tiger 75. I guess I'll just have to join the club of obviously
deranged Panic Pilots and I suspect, with the purported power of the ST,
I should have no trouble out ego-boosting-macho-phallic-thing-ing the best of
them. That is, until Eric shoe horns a Panic onto the back of the OS120FS w/
integral Roots blower that I'm sure he has ordered for just this purpose. 

On a more serious note (the previous paragraph was humor for those with a
stunted sense thereof) the real progress.

The fuse is indeed together, it needs some work with sandpaper. I'm now in the
process of re-designing the tail surfaces. With complete disregard to Eric's
admonition not to split the elevator I'm going to do it. (I respect Eric's
obvious expertise, but I just gotta be me)  I'll then extend the rudder and
drive a CB Associates steerable tailwheel from it. I want to retain the 
relative surface areas of the original while providing some steering. I also
want to save some weight so I'm going to frame up the tail from 1/8 balsa and
sheet it with 1/16 to the final 1/4 dimension. This should actually be stronger
that 1/4 sheet and a good deal lighter.

Power will be supplied by the ST75. My local pusher is now stocking them and
his everyday price of $144.00 is about $5.00 less than in the last Tower Talk.
Not a bad price for a monster of an engine. This brute should put out lots of
torque. I have a question on props. I don't really want this plane to fly fast,
just climb forever. Am I correct in assuming that to do this I use a relatively
short, high pitch prop? If I'm wrong would someone please put the difference
between and climb and a speed prop in here? Also, whether right or wrong,
please feel free to recommend good prop sizes for the engine/characteristics
I am trying to achieve.

Some miscellany: 
The fuse will be glassed and painted after I get the tail feathers attached.
I haven't come up with a paint scheme yet, but its gotta be bright due to the
small size of this plane.

The radio will be an Airtronics VG6DR. Aileron servos (2) outboard in the wing.
Will an electronic mixer let me couple the flap servo to the elevator channel
sometimes and direct to the flap channel others? If so who makes a good
inexpensive one? If this won't work, or can't be done cheaply I'll simply
dedicate the flap to the elevator channel via a Y connector.

Landing gear will be aluminum from my late Trainer 40. Wheels 2 or 2.5 inch or
whatever is needed to give prop clearance.

Thats about it so far. I'd like to get it looking like a plane for a mall
show our club is putting on this weekend. More later.

Randy

    

I have drawn up a NACA0018 wing section on the same cord as the Panic. I
compared the 0018 with the sample sent to me by Dan and it is close except it
is thicker aft of the maximum thickness. The NACA0018 is the closest
symmetrical zero camber wing section I have. 

I would guess the difference will shift the CG slightly aft of the plan so some
adjustment may be necessary. 

Copy the postscript file from STRINE:: with:-

	$ COPY STRINE::STRINE$DUA0:[EPSF]PANIC.TEMPLATE []/log

John

John, what's the best time (referenced to east coast) to do this?

> John, what's the best time (referenced to east coast) to do this?

John,  If you have the Data Interchange Utility (DIU) it's not really an issue 
as it uses a low priority and any spare net time. First thing in your morning 
is our time for shuteye (ie. 0900 Sydney is 1700 Boston).

To use DIU the command is:-

	DIU COPY/DEF STRINE::STRINE$DUA0:[EPSF]PANIC.TEMPLATE []

John

Hi Eric, (without a K)

I figured the performance of the 0018 is close to the requirement of the
original hand drawn Panic and it would definitely have a better boundary layer
performance so it was worth a try. It is going to have better lift but not be
too slippery. I have used the 0015 on a CAP21 and it proved very forgiving. The
0015 if the 15% version of the 0018. I am going to try building one with the  
section and will report back in the notes. 

Moving right along...

I bought the ST75. The hobbyshop owner was pleased. The hobbyshop crowd was
dismayed. They fear that the newly elected club VP (moi) is terminally deranged
and will have to be replaced. Heavy sigh. Hopefully the first few flights will
show them that I'm still in posession of most of my faculties.

Anyhow,
the fuse is complete but for a final sanding and the application of the glass
cloth and polyesther resin. The wings are joined. Leading and trailing edge
sheeting has been applied and the aileron servo cutouts and wire tunnels have
been carved. I used a router bit in a Moto-tool to carve out the foam. It worked
real well, but has one serious drawback, little flecks of foam - everywhere.
Some I fear are permanent. 

Final sanding and glassing of the fuse begin tonight. I need to go to the hobby
shop and get some balsa for the leading and training edges and some UFO for
gluing them and the cap strips on.

More later,
Randy

When I went into the shop on Saturday, Phil was smoking a big
cigar and looking at a Cadillac brochure...do you think this is
significant?

Yeah, it was probably me that did it to 'im.

    
                      Panic Wing question
    
     Dan / Eric,
    
       I have been putting together a raw materials list (Ply and Balsa) to
    start work on my Panic. I have 2 questions regarding the wing sheeting
    material:
    
          What is/are the preferred material for sheeting the wings?
          (I was thinking of using 1/16 balsa.
    
          Is it worthwhile sheeting the entire wing for simplicity sake,
          or will the added weight cause problems?
    
                                                Dan W.
                                     (The first ElectroPanic?)
    
    

    
    	Hey Randy, where'd ya go? Any more saga's to tell about the  
    Coloraddy Panic????
    	
    	SP3 flew this past Monday, (twas a holiday here in Taxachussetts)
    as is even more impressive than the first 120 powered SP2! Why? Not
    sure, though I know I spent more time setting it up as this one is
    scratch built, not kit built. I haven't put it on an accurate scale, 
    but I guess flying weight is about 9.5+ pounds. Even so I was able to
    hover it in 15 mph winds, and it landed as slow as you'd expect a Panic 
    to land. Take offs are the real crowd pleaser as the the muted roar of
    the YS120 has a lot authority in it! Loops are interesting to watch, as
    you can actually see the plane sliding down as the nose comes up on the
    recovery!
    	It's still balanced rather mild for my Panics, right on the
    recommended CG. I plan to add a .5 ounze weight to the tail to see if
    I can reduce the couple of clicks of up trim I dialed in before the
    first flight. Should help with inverted flight if I can do that.
    Initial flight required only a couple of clicks of left aileron to trim
    for straight and level! Next step is to start wringing it out and
    trimming the rudder for loops. Does the 3 speed spin just fine, with
    the slow speed flat spin being rather impressive.
    	Of the four Panics I've flown, I feel that this one flies the best.
    Not as nimble as the Anxiety, but then it's 3+ pounds heaver! Maybe
    after four tries I finally got it right!
    	
	                
      "The Sno-man"			

   *            .------------. 
        .---.   |  Can You   |   *                 *            *
        |120|   |    Say     |       *        *          *
    * __|___|__ | BALLISTIC? |   *   .--.
  *    .'* *`.  `----..------'.======|YS|======.
   *   |  ^  |   *   ||       |     .'  `.     |
       `.`-'.'       ||       |     `-..-'     |           *
       'It's `       ||       `================'   *
     / Just A  \+++++||    *         /  \
    /   PANIC,  \    ||           |_/    \_|  *         *
    \    Mate!  /    ||   *       |        |

I went out and flew my Panic at lunch. I'll give my version and I'm sure Eric,
Charlie and Steve (among others present) will give their version soon.

(Sure, go ahead now that I've found the topic for ya ;^)

My Panic flew and the engine was marginal as explained in one of the engine 
notes. The general comment was that it was possibly the 1st UNDER-powered Panic
flown. I've got a little work to do before the next session but I'll outline 
what happened (my version ;^)

I got to the field and set up and Charlie got in a flight on his Panic before
checking mine out. We got the engine running as well as we could and Charlie 
limped into the air. He brought it around an landed it and we readjusted things.
Taking the air filter off improved the power and away we went again. The plane
is tail-heavy and the elevator/flaps are VERY sensitive. I got some stick time
in and managed to land it without incident (even taxied back to the pits which 
was rare today ;^) I took a break and then went up again. I got in near Charlie 
as he was doing "backwards" flying and managed to slow it down enough to back 
up a little myself. Got a little more familiar with the handling and after 
everyone else was down I set up a landing approach. I came in and was over the 
field but not very happy with my heading so I kicked some rudder and went almost 
knife edge and caught the left wingtip, bounced, went 360 degrees around 
horizontally and then settled ;^) onto the landing gear. Cracked the vertical 
fin, popped the bottom rear decking and ended up with one of the aileron torque
rods sitting outside the fuselage with no connector on it. I didn't pull the 
wings at the field but it didn't go through the side so I doubt if there is much 
damage. There was NO linkage still attached to that torque rod so that was why 
my ailerons were both up after landing.

I like it even unbalanced, underpowered, and touchy elevatored. I'll love it 
when I get everything worked out.

Let the other opinions come forth!