Conference terri::cars_uk

    Hello Porsche fans, 
    
     Just read in my favorite auto mag that Porsche should be showing
    their new 965 (replacement for the 911 Turbo) at the Geneva Motor
    Show 8-18 March). The new car will be using the new shell developped
    for the 964 (Carrera 4) as well as its suspension, steering, gearbox
    and will also use the new 3.5 ltr engine in turbo version, fully
    compliant with worldwide emission control regulations. Max power
    quoted : 330 bhp. No max torque figure (600Nm?).
                 
    One of the reasons for dropping the 911 Turbo model last year was
    competition from the new Carreras (Carrera 2 has comparable top
    speed and acceleration figures). The 965 should set new standards.
    
    To be confirmed next week.                                        

    Patrick,
    
    Where is the show to be held? How much is admission cost? How do
    you get there?
    
    I would be intersted in going. Please (if you can) supply some
    more details...
    
    Thanks in advance...
    
    Lewis.

    
    Lewis,
    	You can't miss it.  It's at Palexpo ( just across the border).
    
    	Car parking isn't bad ( forget the cost now).
    
    	I hope the Cizetta is there again ... ( drool !)
    
    Nigel

    Erm, Patrick, arn't we up to 3.6 l now? Or is it 3.5 for the turbo?

    Just thought I'd write to see whether anyone else has a BROWN
    Porsche 911 SC (yes, don't all laugh!)
    
    I've only heard of one other in this country (I regularly go to
    the PCGB meetings, which, by the way, if you haven't joined yet,
    is very worthwhile for finding contacts/parts when things go wrong
    - you can tell I'm not very technical!) but would be interested
    to hear of any others (its Cockney Brown by the way and I call it
    the Flying T***).
    
    Joking aside, I've driven quite a few so called "performance cars"
    and can honestly say that I'm hooked (and yes, the rear has flipped
    a couple of times - very unnerving but entirely my fault I'm afraid).
    It's a 1980 model and completely original (and it concours condition
    - it was placed last year - not at the National I must admit). 
    One thing I would be interested in, if it's not too nosey, is the
    price people have paid for similar cars, because it would seem that
    mine has doubled in value in the 2 years I've owned it (I paid just
    under #11,000.
    
    That's all for now I think.
    
    Happy Porsching!
    

    
    We've got a friend with a brown Porsche - it 'lives' in this country,
    but is left hand drive - is that the one you know about? 
    
    Elaine

    Elaine
    
    No, I'm sure this one was RHD.  So perhaps there are 2 now!
    
    Thanks for answering.
    
    Katie
    

my old neighbours (in Coventry) had a chocolate brown 911 with a white 
Carrera sticker across the door, they traded this in for a choc. brown 928S...
the taste of some people eh?

...art

    Just read another article.
    
    Launch will take place on 6 March at 11h30. Max power 320bhp. Will
    look like a Carrera 2 or 4 with wider wings. 17" wheels. Only in RWD
    coup� version. No cabriolet, roadster, or 4WD (the latter point
    is only to keep it FUN to drive ie Carrera 4 too boring). It will
    use the new 5 speed gearbox.
    
    Only 2 finished cars exist today and they're hidden in Weissach.
    
    Production will start in October. 

>> Launch will take place on 6 March at 11h30. Max power 320bhp.
							 ^^^^^^

the current (or recently deceased) one has 330bhp (in the UK anyway)

...art

    Auto Motor & Sport were quoting 370 ps, seems more likely somehow.

    re .72
    
    As noted by .73 it's at PALEXPO located just across the motorway
    from the airport. There are zillions of car parks with shutlles
    driving towards the show. Entrance fee usually around Sfr 10. I
    dont have anymore details. The show opens around 9 or 10am and
    closes at 7pm except on certain days (Wed , Sat ? not sure) where
    it remains open till 10pm.
                       
    re .73 
    
    I've just been contacted (they left a note) by Cizeta probably for a 
    test drive. I'll keep you informed.

    re .80
    
    The standard 911 Turbo had 300bhp and the Turbo SE (With popup
    headlights) had 330bhp.
    
    Grant
    
    P.S The old 330bhp 911 did 171mph!

    
    re .82
    
    How do you do it !!!!
    
    And how much are they.... ;-(
    
    Nigel
    

    This time Auto Motor & Sport are quoting 320 ps for the Turbo, with a
    3.3 l engine, same as last time. Photo still had old style front, also
    with Turbo wing.
    
    I wish they would all make their minds up!

    Seen two 964's now, one parked in Geneva, one motoring out of Grenoble,
    so I've seen the 'wing' up and down.
    
    How does it work ?
    
    Does it pop up automatically or is it controlled by the driver ?
    
    Intrigued.

    re-1
    
    I think it automatically raises above a certain speed.
    
    Grant

    re; -a couple
    
    I don't think this is the answer. I've seen it raise itself as the
    guy was slowly pulling away from traffic lights. 
    Maybe it's at a certain rev count. Or maybe it's temperature 
    controlled,... voice activated,... fingerprint coded,... ;-) 
    
    Lewis.

    There is a switch just in front of the gearlever to raise or lower the
    rear tray. I would imagine it is electrically operated.
    
    
    
    
    
    
  

There's a special PF Sensor Chip that works out when to raise and lower it...

Where PF = Pose Factor

Dave

    
    re .90
    > I would imagine it is electrically operated.
    
    What !  You mean the passenger doesn't have to manually wind it
    up and down ?  What will they think of next :-)  I remember when....
    
    Nigel
    

>>There's a special PF Sensor Chip that works out when to raise and lower it...

>>Where PF = Pose Factor
	     ^^^^


sure its POSE factor and not ....



		;-)




...art

    Thought this was a more appropriate note to put this in;
    
    In front of me in the queue today to join the M4 at Newbury, 
    
    PORSCHE 944
    
    Registration No:    94 FOR
    
    NEAT!
    

    That reg. (94 FOR) featured in a CAR magazine article from a few
    years ago. Believe it or not, I was only reading the same article
    last night.
    
    Billy

Try looking at the Porsche office car park in Theale (at J12). Lots
of "porsche" numbers, most on the "right" car to!

Jc

    A friend has a 911 with the reg A911DJW, his initials being DJW. All
    part the local Porsche dealers service.
    

    As promised the 965 has been publicly launched. It's called ....
    
    Carrera 2 Turbo

    I thought it was coming out in December this year, still if it's out
    already, then maybe the dealers will stop asking crazy prices for the
    old turbo, so that us plebs might afford one. BTW, 320 ps is with Kat
    whereas the old 300 was without.
    
    Colin (who missed a very interestingly priced 81 turbo last week) 

They have catalytic 911 turbos on show at the Geneva Motor Show at the moment,
I guess this is the one you mean. There are two there, one behind glass (with 
a selection of colours available so you can choose which one to order :-).

Graham

    Colin,
    
    You don't want to drive a Turbo ! They're extremely heavy to handle
    on anything other than motorways. At Le Castellet, which is not
    a slow circuit, I could easily stay infront of them with my 2.7
    Carrera. At Ledenon I was faster than the Turbos with a 928S4 !
    Weight and turbo lag are the real issues.
    
    Now I haven't tested the new one so I can still change my mind ...

    Hi Patrick,
    
    Guess what, I've done it again. 944 with one of those little spinning
    things connected up to the exhaust this time. Picking it up in a few
    weeks, couldn't afford another 911 at the mo. It's an '86 with 44000
    kms and seems very clean. Hope it runs ok.
    
    I didn't stay away for long did I?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Colin

    Picked the car up the weekend before last. It certainly goes, I would
    say generally quicker than a 911. Two problems so far, speedo packed
    up, restarted, generally mucking around. Got under the car, took out
    the sender, and found the connections full of water. Has worked all the
    time since cleaning it.
    
    Second is not a problem as such, really a question. One of the front
    dipped beam bulbs had gone, I replaced that and decided to replace the
    rear fog light which I knew was not working. Took the panel out, no
    bulb there, also no connection for a bulb. There is only meant to be
    one rear fog light. Seems strange, as British versions get two? Must
    admit though that the 911 only had one, had the other fitted by the
    garage I bought it from. I have the lense, but no light, what a bunch
    of cheapskates!

    >> I have the lense, but no light, what a bunch
    of cheapskates!
    
    I have the same set-up on my Golf. Going to buy the neccessary loom
    extentions and lamp holders next trip to Uk. 
    
    Must be teutonic penny-pinching.

    T

	Also applies to Nipponese penny pinchers, my 200 SX only has one
	rear fog lamp, but there are two lenses !

	Gordon
	
	P.s. Have you got an "all singing all dancing alarm" in this one
	     Colin ?

    
    Yup, alarmed and now garaged. Seems the main thing I have to do now is
    nip down the scrappy and get the central locking bits off a wrecker.
    
    Did you know that the 944 Turbo is referred to as the 951? Also, no
    problem to up the power by 60-80 ps. Could be interesting!

>    >> I have the lense, but no light, what a bunch
>    of cheapskates!
>    
>    I have the same set-up on my Golf. Going to buy the neccessary loom
>    extentions and lamp holders next trip to Uk. 
>    
>    Must be teutonic penny-pinching.
    
    Not penny-pinching, it's to do with safety.  One off-side fog is
    thought to be safer than two.  Two lights can lead to confusion, is it
    one or two cars (remember this is for really bad weather only)?  Also,
    probably more importantly, is that by not having a blazing fog light in
    the vicinity of the near-side brake light, a following driver has a 
    chance to spot when the driver in front brakes.
    
    I wouldn't fit a second fog light.  

    I have a Polo, with a fog light on one side and a reversing light
    on the other.  Several people have told me that one of my reversing
    lights has gone.
    
    Ian.

>>             <<< Note 50.107 by WOTVAX::MEAKINS "Clive Meakins" >>>
>>                        -< Safety, not penny-pinching >-
>>    Not penny-pinching, it's to do with safety.  One off-side fog is
>>    thought to be safer than two.  Two lights can lead to confusion, is it
>>    one or two cars (remember this is for really bad weather only)?  Also,
>>    probably more importantly, is that by not having a blazing fog light in
>>    the vicinity of the near-side brake light, a following driver has a 
>>    chance to spot when the driver in front brakes.

    I dispute this, seeing one light your more inclined to believe it's a
    bike. Seeing two you NATURALLY assume a wider vehicle and can judge
    it's dimensions. Some people say that you can confuse them with stop
    lights if you just briefly glance at them: agreed, but that goes the
    same for a single light as well.
    
    As for being near the stop lights: there are rules about how close they
    can be. In practice in fog, I find them fine. The only problem is when
    they're used at other times.
    
    Richard
    

    I think the point is not to make assumptions in bad weather,
    
    What are the rules for fog lights and stop lights?  I was once behind
    someone on the A-whassit going into Reading in fog, and the whole back
    of his car seemed to be lit up red.  There were huge red lights on his
    back window-sill, and jumbo-jet landing lights hanging on the back of
    the car. 
    When he slowed down, there was no way I could tell his brake lights had
    come on.  I just had to judge that I was closer because the red haze
    was brighter.
    
    Sorry if this is a rat hole
    
    mikef

    Re .-1 
    > and jumbo-jet landing lights hanging on the back of the car.
                                                

    Are you sure you weren't going up the M1 at the time ? 
    
    

    I _think_ the rule is that visibility must be less than 100 metres
    (English translation: 109.36 yards) before fog lights - front or
    rear - can be used.
    
    They never seem to prosecute, though. Carelessly used rear fogs
    can be lethally dazzling.
    
    Steve

This is the law:

-If one fog light fitted, it must be on the offside or in the centre
-If two fitted, one each side
-Fog lights must be >100mm from any brake light.
-They must be >200mm from the ground.

-There must be a brake light each side of the car, between (I think) 350 and
1200mm from the ground, and within 400mm of the car edge.

I don't know the rules for extra "high level" brake lights.

The lenses for lights must be approved for a specific purpose.  So, for example,
a lens approved only as a fog light could not be wired up as an extra brake
light (unless it's also an approved brake light...)

So a car with a blaze of red lights is probably breaking some law.

Scott

    
    RE. last few
    
    The point was that the lense was there, just the wiring wasn't.
    
    
    BTW, you cannot have the rear fog(s) on unless you have the front ones on
    as well. Seems sensible to me.

    How cheaply can one pick up a 10 - 15 year old 911 & in what condition
    
    does the bodywork tend to be?
    
    Is this an expensive rebuild?
    
    Robin_S.

    I would say that about �9-10k is about the cheapest of any car in
    reasonable condition. Less than this would probably be in poor
    condition bodily and mechainically.Of course repairable but all
    911 restoration is expensive. Go for a post '75 as these have more
    galvanised body parts, not to say its immune from the tin worm but
    should be ,in the main, structurally good.
    
    Mechainically not a simple or easy car to work on , however once you
    get things in good order they do tend to be be very reliable.
    
    Best advice is join the PCGB cost �20 (gets you 10% discount off parts
    at most parts centres) ,talk to members, see the ads in the clubs
    Advertiser mag. sent out bi-monthly I think.
    
    good luck
    
    Dave
     

    Thanks Dave.
    
    Sounds beyond my means at the moment but maybe in a few years.
    
    Robin.

    
    Anybody care to enter some details of the 911 3 litre RSR? I
    had an all too brief look around one on Saturday. Anyone
    driven one?
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    Bill.

    Bill, do you mean the RSR of 1973-1975 timeframe ?

    
    Sounds about right. This one is right hand drive, and N registered.
    
    Bill.

I am putting a Flatnose 911 body on my (1/10th scale electric) racing car 
and I want to paint the (small) nose badge in more or less the right colour.

My son has a book full of pictures of 911s but he has taken it to University
with him.

The bodyshell is being sprayed tonight so I need to paint the badge.  (The body
is lexan and you paint the inside so the surface detail has to go on first.)

Can someone describe the badge and its colours ASAP?  In these impoverished 
times we don't have any Porsche cars in the car park!

Regards,

Rob

PS there are extra points if you can do this from memory, without looking at 
one first!

  From memory ... isn't it gold and red quadrants. Red top right and
  botton left, gold top left and botton right.

 Mark

   The basic shape is similar to a "shield" and the colours, Red and Gold 
   dominate. A little detail ( EDT permitting ;-) might enhance...


			 ---------------
			! P O R S C H E	!
			 ---------------
			! \\\ 	!=======!  Stripes of	
			!  \\\ 	!=====<--- Black and Red
			!   \\\	!=======!		
			!      ---======!   "STUTTGART" and Horse		
			!-----!  <--------- emblem inside box 		
			!===== --- \   	!		
			\=======! \\\	/   Arched "branches"
			\=======!  \\\<---- with 'thorns' on
			 \======!   \\ /    them
			  ` --------- '
    
    
    Hope that helps you put the "finishing touch" on ;-)
    
                                                 

    Why not get a brochure from your friendly Porsche dealer? It is bound
    to have the badge on it, which you could lift off and laquer in place.
    
    Steve

	I'm looking for some advice on the question of a 2nd hand 
Porsche purchase.  The two models I have in mind are a late 1970's 911,  
or a 924 Turbo (prob. 1982).    Anyone with any info on either of these two?

	I'm not looking for comparisons between the two,  but suggestions on 
what to look for/expect in the cars.   The sort of things I have in mind 
are reliability,  cost to run,  corrusion hotspots - under and on top,  
models to avoid,  performance  etc.

	I've heard the second-hand 911 market is a minefield,  any 
comments?    Are there any reasonable garages near Reading who will
checkout a 2nd hand 911?

	I ran a 1980 924 Turbo for 5 years... absolutely great car,
	real hot-hatch beater (even now), but there are a few things
	to look for...

	The turbos don't last long. I went through two in 70,000 miles.
	They are also expensive (especially if you go to a main dealer).
	The tyres don't last long (15,000 miles) and they are very
	expensive (�100 per tyre in those days, P6s I think).
	The engine is producing something like 250% of the power it was
	originally designed to produce, so don't expect to get more than
	60,000 miles out of a head without a rebuild, or 100,000 miles
	without a rebore etc.
	Maintenancewise, they have interesting little idiosyncrasies
	like the necessity to remove either the engine or gearbox to
	replace the clutch, but they're basically an Audi, so reasonably
	"standard" mechanically.

	Great car to drive, but lethal in the wet when the turbo cuts
	in. If anyone tries to sell you a red one with the licence
	plate JFC 212 W, don't buy it. It was mine, it isn't straight
	any more.

	You should be able to pick up a good one for �7500 upwards,
	go for lowest possible mileage and insist on a service history,
	avoid a/c, it eats power. Be prepared to spend money maintaining
	it, but on the plus side they're currently going *up* in value...
	the best place to buy is through the owner's club, I can post
	the address if you want it.

	911? That's that squashed VW Beetle isn't it? Engine's at the
	wrong end. You won't get much of a 911 below �20k these days.

	Jonathan.

    Re 924 Turbo
    
�	Maintenancewise, they have interesting little idiosyncrasies
�	like the necessity to remove either the engine or gearbox to
�	replace the clutch, 
    
    I thought it was quite normal to remove engine *or* gearbox
    to replace the clutch - unless you have transverse/front-ending setup.
    
�	but they're basically an Audi, so reasonably
�	"standard" mechanically.
    
    I though they were basically an Audi coupe design, using VW van engines...

    Recent issues of classic car mags are talking about good
    condition 911s from the early to mid seventies going for
    between 10K and 20k pounds, depending on model.


    re: .-1

>	Maintenancewise, they have interesting little idiosyncrasies
>	like the necessity to remove either the engine or gearbox to
>	replace the clutch ...

    What is so special about that ???

  Mark

	Well the engine was taken from the old (60s) Audi 90,
	originally an 1800cc 70bhp unit. Don't know where it
	came from before that, could have been VW for all I
	know... the 924 body shape was designed for Audi by
	Porsche, using as much of the Audi/VW parts bin as
	possible. Audi didn't make it because they thought it
	wouldn't sell...

	Jonathan.

    My parents run a 1979 (? T) 911 SC - Martini stripe - White.
    This looks and runs like new (53,000 on the clock). It's had various
    engine mods and now runs at about 220 - 230 bhp.
    
    Valued at about �17,000 - 18,000 BUT it is in VERY good condition.
    
    There is an awful lot to buying a 2nd hand 911. My fingers would wear
    out typing it all in.
    
    If you want a 5 minute (well � hour) chat on the subject give me a bell
    (7782 2238)
    
    	Rik Watson

    
    Cliff, are you trying to keep up with the Jones's ????  ;-)
    
    Nev.

    Look in this months Performance Car.  They have and article on buying a
    second hand 924/944.
    
    Grant

 This months CAR magazine has an article on buying second hand 911's

	Barrie

re .118
    
    It all started in 1972 with the 2.4 911S. Customers wanted to have a base
for a race car allowing engine capacity to go over the 2.5 class maximum.
Porsche responded with the 2.7 Carrera RS that quickly turned into the 2.7
RSR, 2.8 RSR and 3.0 RSR. 

The new 2.7 allowed Porsche to compete in the 2.5-3.0 class. 3 series of
approw 500 cars were built around end of 1972 early 1973. Certainly one of
the most desirable road Porsches.

2.8 RSR

F series base
Engine: 2808cc, re-bored to 92mm, standard stroke of 70.4mm, Valves 49mm
for inlet, 41.5mm for exhaust.
Peak Power: 308bhp @8000rpm (very flexible engine)
Wheels: 9" front and 11" rear.
Brakes: 917 4 piston calipers.
Lateral acceleration (end of 1973): 1.259g

1st overall 24h of Daytona in early 1973 (Gregg/Haywood)
1st overall 12h of Sebring a few weeks later (same drivers)

At the end of 1973 Porsche decided to produce a new road Carrera 3.0. Only
109 units were built. Arguing that this was a simple evolution of the 2.7
RS (more than 1000 units already built) Porsche got the new 3.0 RS into 
the Group 3. For the 1st time in Porsche history the factory built race 
cars directly for customers instead of delivering a road car that they could
modify. Approx 50 race 3.0 RSR were built.

3.0 RSR

G series base
Aluminium engine (changed from the 2.7 Carrera magnesium engine and gearbox)
re-bored to 95mm, stroke unchanged 70.4mm, capacity 2994cc, twin ignition
system
Peak power: 315bhp @8000rpm (official Porsche figure, only 7 bhp more than 
2.8 RSR engine, original quote)
After modification of the inlet manifold, pael power 330bhp @8000rpm, peak
torque: 32mkg @?rpm.
Wheels: 10.5 J 15 front and 14 J 15 rear, 9 J 15 and 12 J 15 for wet.
Weight: 925-950 kg

Many class victories.

Drivers: Gregg, Haywood, Juergen Barth, Kelleners, Heyer, Wollek, Evertz,
Kinnunen, Ballot-Lena, Schikentanz, Mueller, Van Lennep, Follmer, ...

The 3.0 RSR is the end of a development cycle. The next Porsche race car
used the 2.14 turbo engine. Only a number of years later did Porsche return
to normally aspirated engines for rally cars with the 3.0 SC RS (for team 
Rothmans among others).

    
    Bill,
    
    If you want to know more about 911s I recommend reading 2 books:
    
    The Porsche 911 by Paul Frere
    Porsche Story by Juergen Barth and Lothar Botschen
    
    If you want to hear those formidable engines J. Barth produced for the
    factory a superb record containing most engines sound and the voices of
    Prof Porsche and of his son Ferry.
    
    Good reading,			Patrick

    
    Thanks, Patrick. Hopefully I'll be able to give my impressions of
    this example after next weekend...
    
    Bill.

    Thanks to those who provided the details or the Porsche badge.
    
    The bodyshell was painted and I spent saturday night mounting it on the car,
    beefing up the suspension (thicker oil and spacers to lower the
    chassis, together with stiffer springs).  Because the the bodyshell sits
    over an open chassis it tends to fill with air and lift the rear wheels
    resulting in handling problems.  I drilled some holes in the rear
    window and under the wing.  By the time I finished it was 3am!  I
    should say that I was expecting Sunday to be damp so I set the car up
    for Intermediate rubber tyres.  When I gort up on Sunday at 7am (yawn)
    it was fine and dry so that meant foam tyres!  Unfortunately they were
    catching on the suspension so I quickly fabricated a lathe out of my
    drill and turned them down (the neighbours must have loved an electric
    drill at 7:30am on a Sunday).
    
    Th object of Sunday was to get the handling right.  Saloon bodies have
    a reputation of handling like sheds.  Handling was suburb, despite a
    very strong cross wind, capable of putting a car on its roof on a tight
    bend!
    
    Now I can put the horsepower in and hopefully get competitive.
    
    The paint job looked very nice.  White with a green arrowhead, starting
    just below the badge and opening to just under wing width at the rear, 
    with an orange wing.  Black wipers and window surrounds.  By the time I
    get some sponors stickers (Tekin, Demon, and bbk Racing) on it should
    start to look OK.
    
    I have always wanted a Porshe, now I have one, and I'll get a winters
    fiercly competitive racing (7 meetings) for next to nothing!  I support
    my "habit" by selling spares etc so I buy my cars etc. at trade, run
    them for 6 months and then sell them nearly new for a little less than
    I paid for them!  The only real cost is the tyres, probaly about 30
    pounds for two sets of foams, the intermediate rubbers last forever (on
    hard suspension and damp tracks).
    
    Thanks again for the help.
    
    Rob

    Re .137 - racing a Porsche
    
    sounds interesting.
    
    info available on this in another conference ?

    Re: .137
    
    This is a model car, right ??
    
    I honestly didn't believe that there could be so much to it !!
    
    Rich
    

 I used to race a boomerang on carpet, and sometimes carpet/paving stones.
Great fun it was. Which kit was it you used, and which make of shell ?

		 Alan
		~~~~~~

?

    
    Can I jump on the bandwagon, esp with Christmas coming up?
    
    Anyone want to but a 'Tamiya' ('cause I don't remember the make), 
    Porsche 959, chassis built (a few years ago), with unpainted body, and
    remote control, but might well need a new battery, charger included
    though ..... Any reasonable offer considered ....
    
    Very quick, they claim 60 mph for this one  ... was in between
    contracts when I bought it ... BTW it's the 4WD version ..

    Yes, it is a Radio Control Model.  The Radio Control notes file tends
    to be very much planes and US based.  Rather than clutter up the
    Porsche note I'll start another for Model car racing.
    
    Regards,
    
    Rob  

    Hello from the otherside of the Atlantic,
    
    I've owned by 1982 911SC for about three years now.  A couple weeks ago
    I had a little "fender bender".  Consequently, the car is in the body
    shop (repairs are covered by insurance).  
    
    Since they have to paint back to the doors, to allow room for paint
    blending, I've asked the body shop to remove a couple door dings.
    
    I expect to have the car back in two weeks.  
    
    

    Welcome !
    
    Is your car a 3ltr, 204bhp DIN engine version ?

    My car is a 1982 European specification 911SC.  I bought it about 3
    years ago.  The previous owners did not use 94+ octane fuel (it has the
    204bhp DIN engine).  Because of this inattention, two of the pistons
    cracked.  
    
    I had a place called "IXXI {911} Enterprises" perform a total engine
    rebuild.  We replaced the pistons, rings, fuel pump, some internal
    gearing, etc.  The new pistons are the lower compression U.S. version. 
    I decided to go with the U.S. pistons because I drive the car daily and
    searching for 94+ octance fuel, or adding a fuel additive, is not
    practical.
                  
    The average fuel in Europe is of higher quality than the U.S.  If you
    run a 911SC with European compression pistons at high RPMs (400K+ RPM),
    detonation of the fuel will occur.  Higher octane fuel burns and
    presses the pistons downward.  Lower octane fuel detonates and smashes
    the pistons downward (for a 911 I guess I should have said "inwards"
    instead of "downward"}.
    
    I've driven the car about 6,700 miles since the engine rebuild.  Other
    work has included:
    
     	- new distributer cap
    	- new altenator
    	- miscellaneous screws and seals 
    	- duplicate keys
    	- new hood shocks front and rear
    	- glass tinting all around (I used to live in Dallas, Texas
	    				    this helps one survive 104 degree F
  					    days)
    	- Engine rebuild which included:
    		o pistons and cylinders
    		o head set
    		o bearings
    		o chains and rails   
    		o carrera chain tensioner kit
    		o washers, nuts, gaskets, locktite
    		o clutch disk and plate
    		o cam sprocket
    		o air box pop off valve
    		o fuel pump  (the car sat for nine months until I could get
    				the cash for the engine rebuild, so the 
    				fuel congealed and froze the old pump)
    	- New Pirelli P700 tires (I bought three because the car had
    				one good one)
    	- I've attempted numerous time to get the air conditioner up to
    		par. One day I'll either have the entire unit removed or
    		I'll have a rotary compressor put in and a additional
    		condenser under the front of the car.
	- Replaced the hoses to the windshield washer.
    	- Replaced the alternator belt pulley.   The old one fractured.
    	- Now I run with Mobil 1 15W50 synthetic oil.
    	- Had a 4 wheel alignment performed.
    	- Had brake pads and brake fluid replaced.
    	- Had the turn switch signal replaced (could no longer use bright
    		lights)
    	- Replaced wiper blades and airbox straps (the old straps were
    		rotting)
    	- Installed McGard wheel locks
        - other interior and exterior details
    
    Presently the car is in the shop because of a fender bender.  Before
    the accident,  the body was in excellent shape.  It is a metallic
    pacific blue.  The shop is repainting the hood, fenders, front bumper,
    and is blending the paint halfway into the doors.  They're using a
    Porsche factory paint and clear coat.
    
    The work was slowed becase of the Christmas holidays, but I hope to
    have the car by the week of 7 January.
    
    Overall owning this car has been a fun, but expensive, experience.  It
    is very, very fast and over a period of time I was able to put it in
    excellent condition.
          

    I understand the problem of using inadequate octane rating ! You
    certainly made a good move with the low compression pistons. How do you
    like the suspension ? (torsion bars and schocks). I remember mine was
    very soft. I had Bilsteins fitted all round but I did not touch the
    torsion bars. Standard antiroll bars also. I have friends who saw me on
    3 wheels a number of times ....
    
    My experience of the 911SC was pretty good. Service every 10K kms,
    nothing more. Of course I had the adequate octane rating. Absolutely
    trouble free everyday use for 3 years.
    
    Happy New Year !!!                   

    re .146
    
    400K RPM; now that is impressive!
    
    Scott ;-)

    Today I took my first look at the ongoing body work.  Among other
    things, I noticed the following:
    
    -  A new right front fender will be installed.
    -  The front windshield was temporarily removed.
    -  Two door dings were fixed.
    -  New nozzles for the windshield and headlight washers must be installed.
    -  A new model 5 mile per hour bumper piston will be installed.
    -  The paint shop has a sophisticated paint machine.  They will use it
    	to match the existing color.
    -  After the body shop and the insurance company representative talk
    	one more time, the shop will paint the car and turn it over to me!
    
    re: -2
    No, I haven't performed any modifications to the suspension.  If I
    perform a mod in the near future, it will be a new exhaust system.
    
    re: -1
    four thousand revolutions per minute     *8^}
    
    Later dudes,
    
    P.S. I got hooked on Porsches when I lived in Frankfurt during the
    early seventies.                                         

    Right now I'm running "Mobil 1 Formula 15 W-50 synthetic" oil in my
    911SC.  The owners manual has the following to say about the
    temperature range.
    
     4 deg F to 105+ deg F  ===     SAE 15 W-40 / SAE 15 W-50
    -4 deg F to 90   deg F  ===     SAE 10 W-40 / SAE 10 W-50
    
    Right now in Virginia, USA the temperature gets down to +10 deg F at
    night.  In the summer the temperature will surpass 100 deg F on several
    occasions.
    
    Should I change to a SAE 10 oil now and revert back to a SAE 15 oil
    this spring?
    
    
    This question is cross noted in...
                    DLOACT::CARBUFFS   note 185.*
                    MARVIN::CARS_UK    note  50.*
                      IOSG::AIR_COOLED note  22.*

Is Mobil 1 different in the States to what we use in Europe ?

I use Mobil 1 in the Cosworth and the CBR, and it is definitely 5-50 not 15-50.
It also states on the label that it flows down to -54 degrees C ! (I hope whoever
takes them up on that claim has got good antifreeze)

I wouldn't worry about it, I have left the Cossie parked out in -20 here in
M�nchen with no ill effects...

Rob.

    
    I agree with the Racing Snail, should not be a problem.
    
    I had to change my oil, when starting was becoming sluggish (couldn't
    help that Rob), in Sweden, from 20-50 to 10-30, when temperatures were
    dropping to -20, even -30. That cured the starting, but the gearlever
    took a good few miles before it would shift easily.
    
    Unless it gets a lot colder, I'd leave it.

    
    
    Can someone tell me how the 944's pistons are coated and with what, 
    I've be told that they may be a problem if a car has been left standing
    for a long time, and there may be piston scoring. How long is long ?
    
    Thanks Garry
    

    I'm not exactly sure what the bores are coated with. Some form of low
    friction (al'la PTFE / Silicon) substance. I think 3-6 months is
    considered a long time.
    
    	Rik

    
    
    If the bores are coated with silicon or whatever, why doesn't it get
    washed out during normal running, I do not see how leaving the engine
    standing unused, would be more harmfull then actually running it.
    
    Would it be sufficient to run the engine for a couple of hours every
    month or so to get around this problem ?
    
    Garry.
    

    Running the car up to temperature every fortnight will be fine - but
    watch for a discharded battery !

    .155�    If the bores are coated with silicon or whatever, why doesn't it get
    
    It's called NIKASIL (NI = Nickel, CA = Carbon, SIL = Silicon) and it is
    a very thin layer (micrometers) absolutely rustproof. Pistons should be 
    no problem. Rings ? I don't know what rings are mounted in the 944.

    My 911SC stopped running the other day.  It was wierd, it ran very
    rough and wheezed.
    
    Took it to the shop.  It was a bad catalytic convertor.  The mechanic
    put a new one on.  The car runs great now.  It even has a
    significant increase in horsepower.
    
    Apparently, the degradation in power occurred slowly over a long period
    of time.
    

    The catalytic stuff is a feedback loop between the exhaust (lmabda
    probe) and the fuel injection system. When the probe breaks ... you
    have all chances to be left with a leaner and leaner mixture. Which
    explains the very rough engine. Note that a lean mixture does no good
    to the pistons and valves. Did you notice an engine oil temperature 
    higher than normal ?

    I did not notice a higher than normal engine oil temperature.
    
    I noticed I had a  problem when the engine ceased to run properly. 
    Inside the convertor, the catalyst material was in chunks.  With the
    new convertor in place, I notice a 20-30% difference in the performance
    of the vehicle.  
    
    The shop, AutoAuthority, sold me a used convertor for $300.00. US.  It
    came from later model Porsche which was converted to a race car.
    
    
    Charles   *8^)

    	I picked up mine on Thursday. It's a 1985 944 LUX I. Model 94413F
    	if that means anything to anyone. First impressions are "Wow"! ;-)
    
    	It's a very heavy, solid car, accelaeration is not fantastic, but
    	there again i haven't got really used to the clutch enough to try!
    
    	Motorway driving is such a pleasure, and it excells in this. Which
    	is good, because that is what i bought it for. From 110kph to
    	200kph is no problem, and makes overtaking a pleasure.
    
    	Only problem encountered so far, is the fact that the rear-right 
    	side wheel bearings have/are going. It's going back to the garage
    	today. Oh yea, the AC doesn't work either. No real pain yet, but
    	in the summer...
    
    	Overall i'm chuffed. All these planned long-trips are starting to
    	look attractive now.
    
    	Cheers,
    
    					Lewis.

    Very good Lewis!  Way to go.

    I recently bought a PORSCHE 911 E 2.2 litres, year 1970.
    
    I am currently investigating the level of restoration it should be done
    and of course the spare parts procurement is very critical, especially
    in Italy.
    
    I know that there should be a SPAREPARTS CATALOGUE, with prices,
    available in UK or in US.
    
    For example, I am looking for SAFETY BELTS and SHOCK ABSORBERS.
    
    Is anybody aware of such a listing ?
    
    Thanks
    
    
    

    .163�    For example, I am looking for SAFETY BELTS and SHOCK ABSORBERS.
    
    Shock Absorbers should be no problem. Porsche don't manufacture any.
    Depending on the sort of ride you want you may have soft or hard ones.
    On the 3l 911SC I used Sachs ones which were OK with the Dunlop D40
    tyres. On the 2.7 Carrera I preferred to use Bilsteins which were
    working beautifully especially with the Bridgestone RE71s on 7 and 8"
    wheels.
    
    On the 911 subject: be careful with rust. Cars produced before 1975 are
    subject to rust (starting in 1975 they used galvanised steel all
    round).
    
    Spare parts may be a problem. Sometimes the Porsche dealers don't sell
    parts outside their network (France was such a case several years ago)

    
    Think I've mentioned this before but ....
    
    There is an American magazine available, called Excellence, devoted to
    Porsche, which has many parts advertisements. There are also two other
    magazines, namely the British 911 quarterly, and I've also seen a
    French magazine called Flat 6.
    
    I would recommend Excellence, and most advertisers supply Europe.
    
    There is another American magazine with a name something like VW & Audi
    which runs Porsche articles quite regularly.
    
    I usually pick up my copies of these magazines at the Airport .....

    Colin,
    
    Whatever magazine you read, Porsche spare parts remain expensive and
    sometimes difficult to find. The best thing to do is find the garages
    that do (or did) prepare rally Porsches. These guys usually have loads
    of spares.
    
    I know a german guy called Jurgen Brecht, who lives near Dijon
    (Salmaise). He is very well connected to a number of german garages and
    to the factory. He has the whole catalog of spares available at
    reasonable prices.
    
    I can find his full address and phone number if you're interested. 

    
    Handy tip.
    
    The best way I find to save money on Porsche spares is not to buy
    a Porsche. I find that by doing this I have managed to save thousands
    of pounds on repairs et cetera.
    
    JN.

    I'm bored checking '50' and finding no new Porsche talk, so maybe this
    will start some off.  I've noticed an apparent increase in the Reading
    Porsche population, judging by DECPark's Car Park ..... at least four
    or five 944's, two 924's besides my own and the two beautiful 968's
    that have appeared recently.
    
    It seems like the ideal time to buy at present, with quite a few used 
    cars offering amazing value for money by the standards of recent years.
    I've had my 924 for about 18 months (a 36K miles (when bought) '82) and
    have enjoyed just about very moment of owning it ever since.  It's
    build quality is fantastic and I find it very involving to drive - it
    makes every journey interesting. It is so much more practical than any
    sports car I have owned and gives every indication of lasting forever
    if well maintained.
    
    I've been lucky to find Russell Lewis at RSR Engineering in Bagshot,
    who has previously won the 'Porsche Technician of the Year' several
    times and worked with Derek Bell in Porsche teams in the past. He is
    very friendly and helpful and incredibly knowledgeable and best of all,
    he doesn't turn his nose up at 924's .... better than that, he has one
    himself and is full of praise for the car's handling, safety and VALUE.
    
    My 2 cents worth
    
    
    		Mark
     

    
    All time Fav' car of-all-time [mate] : Porche 956 Speedster
    
    Mike.

    
    
>>    All time Fav' car of-all-time [mate] : Porche 956 Speedster
                                                    ^^^
    
    Shouldn't that be 356 ?
    
    Shaun.

    
    I will enter my '30,000 miles with BRPY' soon (when I have finished it) 
    which should be enough to bore you all on Porsches for another year or
    so ;^)
    
    Shaun.

     
    No; it shouldn't.

�    I will enter my '30,000 miles with BRPY' soon (when I have finished it) 
    
    So BuRPY still lives then ?  (got my mail, Shaun?)
    
    On the subject of this marque (not my favourite, but not to be ignored)
    any comments on the 'Boxster' ?  An entry-level Porsche, with styling
    not unlike the old Speedster (also not based on another marque).
    
    J.R.

    Did you clock the detailing inside ?. Those air vents/fans on the
    transmission tunnel, aft of the hand-brake, are exquisite.
    
    M.

>>    On the subject of this marque (not my favourite, but not to be ignored)
>>    any comments on the 'Boxster' ?  An entry-level Porsche, with styling
>>    not unlike the old Speedster (also not based on another marque).
                         ^^^^^^^^^
    
    Once again, shouldn't this be Spyder (ala Jimmy Dean) ?
    
    I think it looks fantastic.  The interior reminded me of the TreVoR
    Griffith (but perhaps that was just the colour !).  I was also very
    impressed with the price, but as that was for the 4 pot engine, I think
    I would be tempted to pay more (30k ?) for the V6 (water cooled)
    version.
    
    Shaun.
    
    P.S.
    
    Yes, BuRPY is still alive and well (and apparently better than last
    year if the M.O.T. test was anything to go by).
    
    I did get your mail on Tuesday (I've been in sunny Preston by the sea !)
    and I didn't get a place (vastly over subscibed so it seems :^( ).  I
    shall just have to wait and see what my Birthday brings again.
    

>>          -< addendum: although I used to think it was called a 356 >-
>>
>>    No; it shouldn't.
    
    What did you find out to alter your beliefs, and from where ?
    
    Shaun_the_curious
    

    ��What did you find out to alter your beliefs, and from where ?
    
    From the back-page of Performance Car magazine (which, I might add, is
    getting steadily worse - almost Fast Lane-ish !) where there's an ad'
    showing a die-cast model of the hallowed charge; the same one thingy
    drove in "Top Gun" & yer man drove in "Doc. Hollywood". 
    
    Now any 'pink-pages' adverts I've seen are always for 356's but they
    must be different; also you'd expect the company to know what they're
    modelling.
    
    If anyone knows exactly what the 1956 speedster is called, let me know
    before I order the wrong poster ;-).
    
    Mike_the_spurious (but not this time)
            

�>>    not unlike the old Speedster (also not based on another marque).
�                         ^^^^^^^^^
�    
�    Once again, shouldn't this be Spyder (ala Jimmy Dean) ?
    
    Wasn't the Jimmy Dean Porker a '550C', I seem to recall ?
    
    J.R.

>>                     -< Reckon the new one's any safer ? >-
    
    Only if you put your lights on when driving along the opposite
    carriageway in the dark.
    
    I think that was a '550 Spyder' he drove (but then again I'm not
    *always* right :^)
    
    Shaun.

    re. last few
    
    In the early 50's the Porsche 356 was offered in 3 different formats
    
    	- coup�
    	- cabriolet (chopped-off coup�)
    	- speedster (2 seater, low rounded windscreen)
    
    James Dean was driving 'liitle bastard' a Porsche 550RS spyder

One of my childhood dreams was to own a Porsche 911.  A little over a year ago
I was in a position where I could fulfil that dream in the shape of BRPY.

BRPY is a 1985 911 Carrera (B399 RPY).  I took charge of it in August 1991 with
32,018 miles on the clock and between then and now have increased that figure to
67,800 miles.  During that time, the only maintenance costs have been for
services every 12,000 miles, 1 clutch, 2 sets of rear tyres and 1 set of front
tyres (did I say ONLY ? :^).  As BRPY came with a full Porsche service history I
continued to get it serviced by the local Porsche dealer which has cost on
average #500.00 per visit.  I know I could have had it serviced cheaper but with
the amount of miles I do I feel happier having it checked over thouroughly every
12,000 miles.

BRPY was shod with Pirelli P600's when I first had it which I found to be
*extremely* dangerous.  Within the first few weeks of ownership, negotiating
roundabouts in anything other than bone dry weather was like driving on ice !
After fitting Yokohama's all round, I have only had one incident of losing the
back end (it did cost me a new Alloy though :^( ).

It was only the Porsches relatively economical running costs (for a car with 230
bhp !) that convinced me that I could afford to run the car.  With services
every 12,000 miles, an average of 27 mpg (worst = 23, best = 31 !) and notorious
reliabilty (200,000 miles normal for engine) I was easily convinced ;^).

The first few weeks of ownership were taken up with blasting off from every
junction, traffic light etc. just to feel the acceleration and hear the engine
screaming !  I didn't even turn the radio on for 2 months :^)

This phase does, however, pass and I now drive the car slower than I used to
drive my Rover (214 SLi).  Even when not screaming around the car is extremely
competent, quite happily plodding around at 30-40 mph.  It is very comfortable
to drive and doens't leave you feeling like a physical wreck after long
journeys.  The only time it becomes wearing at all is sitting in long traffic
jams, having to continually engage and disengage a fairly heavy clutch (I can
now be identified as the person with the leg like Arnie's :^).

I have had a number of close escapes since buying the car, which never happen
when driving the Rover.  I don't know why, but there seems to be a *lot* more
people who pull out on me, cut me up in traffic,  accelerate as I start
overtaking, stick their fingers up as they overtake, or while I'm overtaking,
not notice me braking etc.  I am, however, determined not to be intimidated by
these petty minded neanderthals, and will continue to enjoy driving BRPY.

Shaun.
    

    
      re .168
    
�    It seems like the ideal time to buy at present, with quite a few used 
�    cars offering amazing value for money by the standards of recent years.
    
     Conversely now is definately the "wrong" time to sell, as witnessed by 
    the poor loved, but unwanted example sitting in my garage. Prices here 
    in Germany have slumped greatly in just the last few months, you can now 
    pick up a 91 944 Cab with 10k (Kilometres) for around 40k DM thats �17k
    
    If only I was buying instead of selling, if only I was 'actually'
    selling, still summers coming... he says looking outside at the snow
    falling. 

    REF -1
    
    In which case is it possible/cost effective to buy a Porche in Germany
    and import into the UK and have converted to RHD?
    
    I used to own an '87 911 Carrera and would love to get a newer Carrera
    2. I was told the old 911 is like a "go-kart" compared to the much
    better Carrera 2. Anyone any first hand knowledge? 
    
    Rupert

    
    re Cost effective, the new 968 CS costs 75K Dm here at the moment,
    in the UK you can get it for �25k, both figures assume no discount
    freebies etc. At that cost its better to buy in the UK even before
    having to pay for conversion to RHD. The depressed state of the market
    means a cash buyer in either market really is king at the moment, I
    heard reports of 5 figure discounts on new 928's from dealers in the
    UK. I've never driven an old 911 but the Carrera 2 is a very nice car,
    I had one with Tiptronic (automatic) and it was very easy to drive and
    not slow at all, my wife prefers the 911 to the 944 because its easier
    for her to see the extremities, also it was easier to get the baby seat
    fitted in the 911. Its a harder ride than the 944 Cab but nowhere near
    as much scuttle shake can be felt although the 911 was a coupe, but i
    would imagine the 911 cab is better madde than the 944. 

    
    In some ways, its hard to compare the 911C2 with the Carrera. The
    C2 is really a new 911 (you won't find a 911 logo on the car), as
    opposed to a development.
    
    First hand experience? Its more powerful, quicker, more manageable
    and a far better day-to-day car, with improved gearbox and ABS. 
    Build quality? I believe Porsches aren't built as well as they used
    to be - the SC and Carrera win in that respect. Also bear in mind
    that C2 suspension isn't as smooth as the trailing arm setup on
    Carreras (so expect more rattle and shake). I've also heard
    that C2s can suffer from problems with oil leaks around the head
    (only a �3K job...)
    
    Summary? The C2 is a fantastic car, but if you are a 911 bigot, then
    you may find it slightly 'dilute'. This can be cured, though - 
    my criticism of a friend's C2 has been dispelled since he
    had RUF suspension fitted - the car is lower, stiffer, exhibits
    minimal understeer, and can frighten the driver silly in a
    cross wind...
                                                              
    William.
    
    PS. Is that the right price for a 968CS? I've heard �30.5K for
    a CS with sport suspension, LSD and 6 pot brakes (ala RSL);
    �29K for a base spec car. BTW, I was amused to discover that the
    968CS weighs more than a 944S2, but regardless I'm thankful
    that Porsche are getting their act together - building cars
    for enthusiasts again.   

    
    
    The 968 CS has a �28500 list price in the UK.
    
    Richard.

    Ref the Carrera 2. When I was last looking into it, I was told that
    people were only getting circa 20,000 miles per clutch (around �800 a
    time). Which is a lot worse than my old 911 Carrera, which lasted
    40,000 (if the odometer was correct - I've heard there are quite a few
    clocked ones around).
    
    Rupert

    My only concern with the new Carreras:
    
    - the C2 (RWD) weighs 1350kg
    - the C4 (4WD) ------ 1450kg
    
    The good old 2.7 Carrera weighed around 1000kg. Race versions were all
    under 1ton.

    If you really are that bothered about weight (and hence pwr/weight)
    then you could always buy one of the C2 specials (Not the ``new''
    RS/CS). These were built by Porsche for ``their friends''. Its
    basically a C2 cutdown in much the same was as the Turbo-S (Glassfiber
    bodywork (?), no A/S, nothing much electric, fixed rear wing,
    easily removable cat ...)

    
    Porsche do gain weight as they develop - a 911 Club Sport (light weight
    Carrera) is heavier than an SC; the 968 Club Sport is heavier than a
    944S2. I don't know how the 911 RSL weighs in, but they really went to
    town with that car; even down to omitting the underseal and using a thin
    aluminium bonnet (every new one I've seen has shown the finger marks of
    ham fisted salesmen).
    
    William.

    Porsche have developped 2 cars for all sorts of national sports cars
    championships and for the newly created GT championship.
    
    911: not sure about the real final name, somethingh like 3.8 Turbo RS
    The car has been tested for a full month at Paul Ricard by Walter Rohrl
    himself. Factory will enter one car in the GT category at Le Mans 24h
    for Rohrl, Haywood and 3rd driver whose name escapes. 100 cars will be
    produced for customers (racing teams).
    
    968 Turbo S and 968 Turbo RS. 968 Turbo S is a road going turbo charged
    968 (much like the follower of the 944 Turbo series). The 3 litre
    engine produces 305bhp peak and a lot of torque. The 968 RS is the
    racing version with minimum peak power around 340bhp.
    
    This sounds like Porsche have finally corrected their strategy and will
    be back to the basics: racing.

    Tell me what you think of the following:
    
    	I have an opportunity to be involved with the purchase of a 928S.
    The chap wants to get rid of it 'cos his (ex)business partner did a
    runner with a load of dosh, resulting in his business going bust!. The
    only problem is that it hasn't been driven in 18 months. The reason for
    this being that the auto gearbox is in bits around the garage!.
    
    	Bodywork wise, the car is fine. The interior is damp and mouldy,
    but it's full leather and would probably clean up a treat. The engine
    has done 103,000 miles and was running fine when it was last driven.
    The wheels and tyres look good and that's about as much as I know, (I
    haven't seen the car yet, but will do so soon!).
    
    	The car is probably dated around 1980-81. The present owner is
    awaiting the return of the log book from the DVLC, so until he gets
    this we don't know it's exact date of registration. It also has
    personalised plates, but these look odd, i.e. 2 numbers and 5 letters.
    
    	The chap wants to get rid of it and so is prepared to let it go
    cheap!. We're thinking of buying, restoring it, and then selling it.
    The problem is, we don't know how much one of these things will go for,
    especially bearing in mind there's no service history with the car.
    
    	Any comments?. Should I say 'Thanks, but no thanks' or is it worth
    a look?. And if I do have a look, what should I look out for?.
    
    	Dave.
    
    

    I don't know much about 928s', but I would have thought only the rarer
    911s' are worth restoring. There are loads of 928s' kicking around for
    10-20K pounds.
    
    Rupert

	Take a look at the AUTO TRADER, I think you'll find yo can pick up a high 
mileage 928 for about 1500 quid from that era. I'm no expert but unless he is 
nearly giving it away I wouldn't bother.

	On the other hand if you fancy a stab at fixing an AUTO box good luck !

Andy

    .192� I have an opportunity to be involved with the purchase of a 928S.
    
    I have owned a 928. It is a truly excellent GT car and very worth
    keeping. Everything is well designed and designed for reliability. Also
    the 928 is a real Porsche in every detail, EXCEPT the auto gearbox
    which (I think) is a Mercedes (?) design. A very good GT car without
    any known flaws/bugs.
    
    However Porsche parts are expensive. Depending on price asked ... this
    could be a real opportunity or (as previous noters have recommended) a
    real trap.

    
    Sadly my 924 is being sold due to the arrivel of a Merc estate for my
    wife, so if you're into Porsches, need a robust, reliable
    almost-like-new car that can be used regularly without mega servicing
    costs, parts costs, insurance costs etc etc .... read note 4.714
    
    Value for money Porsche fun !!!!
    
    
      Mark
    

    Just found this in VNS
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    15. Porsche and IBM form joint venture 
    
    Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG, Stuttgart, will bring its computing centre 
    into a common company with IBM Deutschland Systeme und Netze GmbH from 
    October 1.
    
    Handelsblatt. German. 1993-09-23. Size: 1 c
    									   

    Any 944 owners out there with some tyre recommendations. I have an 87
    944S with 215 60VR15 Dunlop D40's which are getting close to the
    minimum and are extremely slippery in the wet.
    
    Suggestions please.
    John

    Yoko 008P
    Pirelli Pzero
    Dunlop Performa P8000
    
    	Rik

Depending on how you drive, the Pirelli P600s might be better for you than 
the Pzeros.  They work very well in the wet.

Dave

    .198�    944S with 215 60VR15 Dunlop D40's which are getting close to the
    .198�    minimum and are extremely slippery in the wet.
    
    .... if you find the D40's 'extremely slippery in the wet' .... then
    you'll have trouble finding a better choice. Avoid the P0 and the
    Yokos, as well as all high perf. Michelins (MXX2/MXX3), they're only
    good on a perfectly dry surface. Have you ever tried the Bridgestones ?
    Goodyears ?

    I read .198 to imply that his D40's were getting low on tread and hence
    a bit more fun in the wet - not that the D40's were too slippy to start
    with.
    
    	Rik

    Thanks guys. 
    In fact I was convinced by Micheldever tyres that my problem was near
    illegal tyres at the front and that D40's were the best combination of
    grip (particularly in the wet) and mileage. Their price, by the way, 
    was �78+vat - about 25% lower than any other quotes in the Reading area.
    
    Rgds John

    I've read somewhere that Porsche and BMW will jointly produce a road
    going version of the Boxster (you know, the beautiful 2 seater that
    Porsche have shown at various auto shows).
    
    Anyone can confirm this ? 

    
    Any idea of the price ? will it be a limited run as was the Z1.
    
    wouldn't mind one.
    

    I hadn't heard of BMW's involvement but I know that deposits have been
    taken for the Boxter in the USA for a price just below a 968 CS.
    
    Also was an aricle in CAR Mag [I think] about the new Carrera n�e 911
    (993 ?) which mentioned that some of the technology (lights + rear
    suspention) where from the still born 928 replacement and would also
    see action in the upcomming Boxter which would be priced at around
    �27->28K here in the UK (Just below the 968 CS - so it's consistant).
    
    	And yes, I do want one.
    
    		Rik

    .206�    Also was an aricle in CAR Mag [I think] about the new Carrera n�e 911
    .206�    (993 ?) which mentioned that some of the technology (lights + rear
    .206�    suspention) where from the still born 928 replacement and would also
    
    True. The multilink (6) rear suspension comes from the 4-door saloon
    defunct project. According to several test drivers that I know, the 993
    is a totally different car due to this improved rear stuff. Given that
    because of the rear engine architecture the car has a fantastic grip in
    acceleration this new Porsche seems to be a real beast. I look forward
    to drive one ... 

    re a few back on tyres (sorry, I was asleep).
    
    P-Zeros work extremely well in the wet. Far better than anything else I
    tried, and certainly the only tyre that made it safe for me to overtake
    quickly in the wet without fear of 'fishtailing' and side-swiping the
    vehicle I was overtaking.
    
    Don't be fooled by the tread pattern, they are very soft rubber.
    
    Rob

    Hi,
    I'm a bit new to this notes game, but here goes. I've got a 911 Carrera
    Sport (84), Ray Northway has always looked after it since I purchased
    it. He would, I am sure offer his advice as to the worth of the 928. You
    can contact him on 0831 424911 or at his workshop on 0734 714333
    
    Regards
    Steve

    Anyone had problems with radio reception from the front windscreen type
    aerial? I have an '87 944S with a good Panasonic stereo but appalling
    radio reception. Should I be looking for a bad connection or is it a
    known problem (and is there a fix)
    
    Rgds John

    
    I had no problems whatsoever with mine so its proberbly not a known
    problem.
    

    As drivers of what is possibly the best sports cars available, are you
    aware that the Thames Valley Region of the Porsche Owners club meets on
    the 1st Wednesday of the month at Kirton's Country club.
    
    It seems that there are a few of us Porker owners still around in
    Digital, so why don't we make a go of it and meet at Kirton's on
    Wednesday 6th July ?
    
    Who's game on ?
    
    Regards
    Steve K 

    I'll try and make it....
    
    John Gray ('87 944S, POC member but not attended a meeting yet)
    
    PS maybe we should have a "dry" run at the Old Bell to introduce
    ourselves!

    Where is the nearest Porsche dealer to SBP ? I have tried yellow pages,
    talking pages, dir 50.* /tit=dealer, all to no avail ?
    
    I am in the market for a 928, but I want to seek some advice, and I
    want to know how far afield I have to go for servicing.
    
    A previous note asking for advice on 928s seems to have had its replies
    set hidden, so apologies for me asking again :-
    
    1990ish 928S4 Auto with 50kish on the clock - anything to watch out
    for? One I have looked at has the laquer flaking off below the
    passengers door sill and around the wheel arches. The dealer says this will
    be put right, but is it an indication of more trouble to come ?
    
    I haven't found one with a *full* service history - is that a major
    problem if I get a warranty and get it in to a Porsche dealer for a
    full service ?
    
    Any other info would be most welcome.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Rob
    

    To answer some of my own question, it finally dawned on me to call
    Prosche, and in case any one else ever want to look it up:
    
    Chapel Gate, Wimborne 0202 897688
    AFN, Guildford 0483-60666
    
    Rob

Servicing by Porsche dealers costs 2 arms and a leg in the UK. Check out the
costs before you buy. The paintwork doesn't normally flake off. Dodgy repair
perhaps?

I wouldn't go near a Porsche without being certain of its history.

Finally, there are dealers in Guildford, Reading, Hove and Bournemouth.

Dave

    The paint on the one I looked at seems ok, it is just the laquer. My
    guess is that some stone chips have punctured the laquer which has got
    water behind it.
    
    AFN have one same age, same mileage, FSH, but asking 3k more.
    
    I have been told that the engine is virtually unbustable, but what
    about the gearbox - is the Automatic ok ? Patrick mentioned in an
    earlier note that it isn't Porsche, but Mercedes, maybe that is no bad
    thing ? 
    
    Rob

    
    Servicing anywhere cost 2 arms etc, If your looking for a 90's model I
    would have thought the actual purchase price would have dissuaded any 'boy
    racers' who cant afford to run them properly from being the previous
    owner. However if something does go wrong its going to be expensive, so
    its worth the extra to have a full service history, if its from a Porsche
    garage its also more likely that the previous owner looked after it
    better. If your going to buy one though its no good thinking that once
    you've paid for it you stop paying, thats only the start, if you accept
    this you'll not be disappointed. 
    
    
       

    AFN have quoted �700 for a full 48k ervice, �448 for normal 'major'
    service.
    
    They have one with 51k on the clock that still needs the 48k service
    plus needs another �1500 spent on it...
    
    Thankfully their labour rates are lower then mine ;-)
    
    Rob

    Bloody Hell.  They must be cheap !  :-)
    
    N.
    
    There was an article in Car last year, comparing what porsches you get
    for 10K.  A 924, 911 or 928.  It went into servicing,reliability and
    the rest(how fast from a to B), and it worked out that value for money
    wise the 928 won hands down.
    
    
    

    Good news :-)
    
    Actually, servicing is not bad - my last service on the Capri was �330!
    
    Rob

    .217�    I have been told that the engine is virtually unbustable, but what
    .217�    about the gearbox - is the Automatic ok ? Patrick mentioned in an
    .217�    earlier note that it isn't Porsche, but Mercedes, maybe that is no bad
    .217�    thing ? 
    
    Let me just restate that a 928 is one of the best engineered cars ever
    produced. I haven't been able to touch a BMW850 so I can't really
    compare. 
    
    If the car has not been driven every day on a fast race circuit by a 
    F1 driver it should last for ever. Look for body damage, as this is a 
    high cost item. Mechanically everything is sound. Other part that may 
    need replacement is the exhaust (and that's bloody expensive) system.
    Normally, this is a car that won't cost you in terms of servicing: just
    oil changes. It's true that the tyres are expensive and they quickly
    wear depending on how fast you drive, the brake pads need to be changed
    quite often for the same reason, ... etc ...
    
    Once you have found a good 928 you'll find yourself with the car of
    your life !

    Thanks, Patrick.
    
    Yes, AFN gave me a breakdown on what they were spending to get their
    928 up to scratch, and it was mostly tyres and disk pads, and a couple
    of small oil leaks.
    
    Interestingly they told me to watch out for cars with just over 50k on
    the clock, as the owners tend to get faced with a big bill at the 48k
    service, and bottle out and sell the car. Then the new owner gets hit
    with the bill soon after they buy it.
    
    Rob

    A good source of information for Porsche are the following;
    Porsche Club GB on 0451 860792 (A must for reduction in insurance
    premiums).
    911 & Porsche world magazine out every two months. July/August just
    out.
    If you are looking to buy other than from an Official Porsche Centre I
    would strongly recommend that you get the car checked out first. You
    will see from 911 & Porsche world mag that a large network of ex
    Porsche specialists exist. One such guy is Ray Northway on 0734 714333
    I guess a little out of your way in Reading !
    
    Happy hunting, but remember your licence is always at risk when driving
    a Porsche !!!!!!!

    Just been up to Reading to see the one AFN have to offer.The one
    noticeable difference between that and the non-official dealer's was
    the smoothness of the kickdown. The first one I tried gave quite a jolt
    when it kicked down, and this one changed much more smoothly.
    That makes me a little wary.
    
    I shall give the club a call, the best quote I have had for insurance
    is �650 so far (which isn't anything like as bad as I expected!)
    
    Rob

    And through Porsche club, all I got was the standard N.U. �761 :-(

    Two more insurance co's.
    Verral & Co 021 355 8933 you will need PCGB Membership for club
    discount.
    Also Peart Associates 0539 730666.
    
    It's worth joining the club before purchase as monthly you will receive
    the Trading Post with Cars etc advertised, plus quartly the Porsche
    Post mag.
    
    In case you are wondering I'm not on Commission for new members.
    
    Regards,
    Steve Killoran
    

    Hi Steve,
    	Yes, I did join. (I'll have to buy one now ;-)).
    The number they gave me was 021-355-0325 though.
    I said I was from the club, but they didn't ask for my number, and
    quoted me the standard price. I shall try the other numbers tomorrow.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Rob

    Hello 
    I have used RS enginneering at Bagshot. What they don't know about
    Porsche isn't worth knowing.
    
    They would give you a good assessment for a fair price, but don't rely
    on their punctuality.
    
    Cheers Nick

    The deed is done.
    After all the advice I received, I decided that buying from AFN with a
    full service history and a full Porsche warranty was the best bet.
    I take delivery of G719CLC, a Slate Grey 928 S4 a week on Friday.
     Now, how do I concentrate on work in the meantime :-|.
    
    Rob

    Rob - How much did you pay for it? I've always fancied the 928.
    
    paul

    �22,750. That includes one years Porsche warranty and one years tax. I
    can extend the warranty for a further year subject to servicing being
    kept up.
    
    I gave Pearts a call yesterday for insurance with the club discount,
    and they quoted me �791 for N.U. - �30 more than everyone else quotes
    without the club discount !
    
    And I belatedly thought to measure my garage doors last night to make
    sure she will fit. She will, just, but it will be a close run thing.
    
    Rob

    
    Re Garage Doors, When you first drive it home I think you'll find that
    the roads have suddenly shrunk and it'll take you at least an hour to 
    get it in the garage, you'll need help from the wife who will have to 
    stand between the car and the end of the garage in order not to damage
    the car (oh and maybe the wife).
    
      

    Hang on, I don't remember this being part of the deal.
    
    Since Rob has already managed to scrape my Calibra on bits of the
    garage twice I think the roles might have to be reversed in this case.
    Now where's that blindfold got to?
    
    Cheers,
     Diane

    Just a wee pointer for future replacement of exhausts.. When I replaced
    the exhaust on our Pug 505 estate I was quoted about 275 squids for the
    full thing from kwik-fit. However the man said that if I bought a
    "Lifetime Gaurantee" for 25 quid, that would cover EVERYTHING that
    could go wrong with it.... even rust.. driver damage etc.. etc... 
    
    So far, we have had one and a half new exhasts out of kwik-fit for
    nothing!! Best 25 quid I ever spent on a car!!
    
    Definitely worth it for the expensive ones!
    
    Dave
    

    1 long lunch later, all I can say is :-).
    
    Rob

    1 longish lunch latter, I agree.
    
    Rik

    Err... can I have a long lunch too?
    -paul-

    Any time.
    
    Rob

    
    I understand that the motorway police now have a 968 in their fleet.
    
    Jonathan
    

    There was a note in Porsche post to the effect that the Met have bought
    a 968. I can't temember the details, but it didn't give the impression
    that it was for motorway work.
    
    Rob

    
    I spied said car on the M25 going through the roadworks near the A3 
    on friday.It had the stripes down the side but cant remember if it
    had lights on the roof.
    
    Malcolm

    Just to make Nigel feel less hard done by, I thought an update on the
    Porsche saga was in order.
    
    So far, I have only noticed a few little niggles with the car, which
    was otherwise fully meeting expectations. The nearside headlight was
    pointing at the floor and wouldn't adjust (AFN had told me that the
    adjuster was inoperable, but not that the light didn't point the right
    way), the boot release has an intermittent fault where it won't stop
    releasing (the boot release is electrically operated from a button
    beside the seat), and there was a small oil leak, which caused a smell
    of burning oil when the car was driven enthusiastically (AFN had told
    me about three oil leaks, which were going to be fixed before the car
    was handed over). One of the oil leaks they listed was the front
    crankshaft oil seal. Now it didn't occur to me at the time but this is
    a fairly major job to replace quite a small item. 
    
    I booked the car in three weeks ago to have these jobs done, and when I
    picked it up, I was told that the headlight hadn't been fixed because
    they didn't have the parts (I had booked it in two weeks before!), the
    boot release had been fixed, and the oil leak was caused by the front
    crankshaft oil seal leaking - which I needed to book the car in again
    to have fixed because it is a three day job.
    
    When I complained that the oil seal should have been fixed before I
    picked the car up, the service dept. denied all knowledge of it.
    
    Anyway I took the car back last monday to have the work done. The first
    time, I was given a courtesy car in an absolutely filthy (internally)
    condition, which I had complained about, and they had promised me 'the
    turbo' next time.
    
    Well, I was there at 10 to 8 in the morning, aiming to get back to SBP
    by 9, but no courtesy car. They were expecting it at 8, so no problem.
    By 8:30 I asked if they could chase up whoever it was had the car. It
    turned out it was loaned to a new salesman who was starting that day.
    He was late in on his first day. He cheerily arrived at 8:50 - which
    meant I had been waiting an hour and was that much late for work!
    Outside - no turbo, a Golf CL Auto...
    
    On Wednesday I called to see what time I should collect my car. "Oh
    yes, we were just going to call you"...
    They had found some bits of broken bearing in the sump.
    They thought it was the crankshaft thrust bearing (keeps the crank from
    moving end to end) that had collapsed - that would explain the oil seal
    going. They had never heard of it happening before (just my luck).
    So, they had to wait until the following monday (yesterday) to get the
    assessor from the warranty company to look at it.
    Ok, so I can live with a golf for a few more days (I have left the golf
    on my driveway and used one of my bikes anyway).
    However, I called last night and was told, we can't start work yet as
    we have to hear back from the warranty company for authorisation.
    This gave me the horrible suggestion that they were going to bill me if
    the warranty company didn't play ball..
    So, I rang the sales person, who agreed that yes, she had promised that
    the seal would be fixed before I got the car, and yes, they would have
    found all this out before I bought the car *if* they had done the work
    they agreed to, and she promised the branch manager would call me.
    He called this morning, full of apologies, yes they would start work
    straight away, no I wouldn't get a bill.
    I then afterwards called the service dept. to see how long it was going
    to take. I was told that they had decided to offer me a Subaru turbo
    instead of the golf, as a gesture of good faith. That will be ready for
    me to collect on Saturday.
    
    HOW LONG IS THIS GOINGTO TAKE ?????
    
    Oh, well, we are waiting for the warranty company...
    
    I explained that this was not my problem.
    
    Ah, well, we won't have the parts in until the end of the week, and
    then it is 30 hours work...
    
    I have to admit it. I am a wimp. I gave up.
    
    Enter Super-Di stage left.
    
    Diane makes a list of all that I shoudl bill them for.
    Cleaning my suit of the dog hairs from the first courtesy car.
    two round trips to Guildford at 50p per mile.
    several hours of my time at �** per hour.
    two weeks finance refund.
    two weeks insurance refund.
    etc etc
    
    She then called the branch manager, told him she was my secretary and
    that I had 'lost patience' with them, and that if they didn't do
    something 'right now' I would consider taking action.
    
    They just rang back. The service manager is coming here tomorrow, in
    person, to deliver a 968 for me to use until my car is back on the
    road.
    
    Moral(s) of this story?
    a) Porsche servicing isn't necessarily what it is cracked up to be.
    b) Hire Diane next time you have a problem with a garage.
    
    Rob

    Rob,
    	You forgot to mention what Diane's hourly rate is.
    
    		Rik

    ...Sad but true  I get the same level of service from Nissan delaer
    Davenport Vernon - however when paying Porsche prices one does expect a
    high quality of customer care.
    
    
    My 300zx goes in for it's 18,000 miles service next week so I guess
    I'll be getting mt dose soon. Any chance they'll give me a comparable
    curtesy car? Probably not ;-)
    
    -paul-

    
    THAT'S why you got married rob :-)
    
    This doesn't sound like good summer for buying a car :-(
    
    Good to see they are going to pay for it all.  Bet the bill would make
    interesting reading !
    
    
    Nigel
    
    
    

Think yourself lucky you weren't paying for the work. UK prices for Porsche
servicing are extortionate. When I was working in Antwerp, I used the main
VAG/Porsche dealer. The work was excellent and cost (for a 924) about 10% more
than for a Golf.  On returning to the UK, I actually considered having the car
serviced in Belgium. The price difference would have more than paid for the
ferry.
    
The attitude in the UK towards servicing upmarket cars seems to be that the
more the customer is charged, the more he likes it.

Dave    

    Normal servicing doesn't seem to be too much more expensive, I have
    been quoted �340 for a 12k/annual service.
    
    This job, however will be quite expensive - the warranty company only
    send an assessor for claims over �1k.
    
    As to luck, well, its hard to say. If I had bought the other 928 I was
    looking at, I would probably have ended up footing the bill *if* it
    went wrong. On the other hand, it probably wouldn't have gone wrong...
    
    Rob

    
    How many miles has your porsche done ?
    

    Hi,
    	It had done 51k8 when I bought it. Now showing 53k4.
    
    
    The 968 is outside. I am off for lunch.
    
    Had a bit of a panic when my insurance company nearly refused to cover
    it though!
    
    Rob

I am interested in buying a 1970's Porsche 911. I'm not sure of the model
changes through this decade, but would appreciate some help on 2 fronts.

Firstly, does anyone have any information on what the model changes were.

Secondly, I have been told that it is always best to buy from a main dealer.
Therefore can you help with dealers/contacts and telephone numbers round the
country, that could get me going on the right track.

Thanks, Jonathan.
    

    You may get more replies by joining the porsche mailing list.
    
    Send your request to: [email protected] there are
    lots of people there who can advise on what to buy and where.
    
    Also, there a couple of books that you should look at.
    
    The first is by Paul Frere and is called something like:
    "The 911 story"
    
    The second is a huge (2 large volumes) detailed catalogue
    of all of the company's products. I cannot remember the
    author and I have only ever seen it in German bookshops
    but it is very detailed and will tell you exactly what is
    available.
    
    John O'C

    Re 911
    
    Check out note 22 in IOSG::AIR_COOLED
    
    There is a lot of good info there.
    
    If you get one and don't knock up too many miles be sure
    to get low mileage 'classic' insurance as it will be a lot cheaper.
    
    Keep us informed of your progress.
    
    Royston

    
    Re 911
    
    I won't pretend to be a Porsche expert, but I'd doubt that main dealers
    are neccesarily the best place to buy a car of 70s vintage. I doubt
    that many end up with main dealers or if they do, it's probably through 
    a third party. In fact is probably the case that unless the car is an
    _exceptionally_ good example that a main dealer wouldn't want such an
    old car cluttering up their showroom anyway!
    
    If you were looking for a mid-late 80's car the case would probably be
    different.
    
    Assuming you're in the UK, the Classic car press will be full of people
    who deal in 'classic' Porsches (after all, they're ten a penny! :^)).If
    you're elsewhere (US/Europe) there are similar publications.
    
    Mark
    

    There are 2 specialist I know of, both I would recommend
    
    Francis Tuthill - 0295 750514 
    	He imports, restores, repairs, and races vintage Porsches.
    
    Russel @ RSR -0276 453333
    	Very good porsche specialist, don't talk to him for too long because
    I'm waiting for him to finish a job for me :-)
    
    Cheers Nick                                           

    Thanks for the info so far.
    
    I considered signing up to the porschephiles, but the traffic through
    the mailing list is meant to be massive, and I have had problems being
    flooded in the past with the Vintage VW list.
    
    Thanks for the pointer to the note in air_cooled, it's a starting
    point.
    
    I have to agree with the last reply about porsche main dealers, but I
    am extremely wary of diving into the Classic Car classifieds. I'm not
    too sure on the best course of action. I don't want to be stung, and
    left with a wreck - I've lived and learnt that lesson when I got my
    Beetle!
    
    Maybe if I got in touch an owners club. Does anyone have information or
    ideas on this, or possibly a reputable Classic car dealership.
    
    BTW, yes I am in the UK, in sunny Newbury for my sins.
    
    Jonathan

    Something I've always heard is to be more careful of cars which don't 
    have the galvanized metal in the rear subframe.  I'm not sure if this 
    story is true.  I seem to recall that 1976 was the year the 911
    received this treatment.
    
    Jeff

    You may want to look at the books in the first place. The Paul Frere
    911 is THE reference. It has model numbers, part numbers, production
    figures, etc...
    
    Then you may want to look at the car mags and the Porsche adds. You may
    want to look at Porsche clubs as well.
    
    FYI: there are a few things you have to know about the 70's Porsches
    
    - the most interesting models are:
    
    	Carrera 2.7 (rare and expensive, the best)
    	2.4S (good sound base for the 2.7 Carrera above)
    	2.2S (still good)
    	Carrera 3.0 (still good)
    
    - If you have to choose between the coupe and the targa, pick the coupe.
      It's lighter and more solid.
    
    - in 1975 (fall) Porsche switched to galvanized steel. Prior to that
      the 911s rust just like any other car. Then you have to watch for
      rust under the body, the wings and all important places like where
      the torsion bars fit. A complete body rebuild is an expensive job
    
    - many engine parts are interchangeable, so watch for a perfect match.
      It is not unusual to find cars with a complete mix of parts. I saw a
      2.7 Carrera engine with 1 camshaft from a 3.0 US model ! It works,
      but not if you want to get the most out of it (like every 911 driver
      does ...)
      
    - you can always get more out of your 911. By changing the camshafts
      and the ignition you'll get more horsepower. You can find specialists
      who will make your 911 a real racer. A 2.8 RS or RSR does not cost much
      and the result is impressive.
    
    - best price/performance ratio ? I would look for an original 2.4S
    
    - worst model in the 70's ? the 930 (3.0 Turbo), it's heavy and really
      NOT nice to drive except perhaps on motorways.

    Hi patrick,
    
    	It may be because I got one of these that I disagree totally with 
    your feeling about the 3.0 Turbo.
    	It's not heavy, it's even the lightest Turbo model (1240Kg -
    compared to the about 1500kg of the latest)
    	I owned a 2,4S before and can say that this was a difficult car to
    drive, I find the Turbo far more safe (did you ever drive one?)
    	And it is reliable, I've bought it 10 years ago, and never broke
    anything, it has just been tuned once in 10 years and still going
    strongly (mine is a 76 model).
    	Accelerating in 2nd gear after 4000 rpm is like riding a Kawasaki
    H1...  
    
    	Anyway, it's honest to recognize that the 911 concept has been improved
    year after year, but if we compare 70s Porsches, I think this one
    is a very good compromize between cost and fun.
    
    Regards,
    Jean-pascal

    "Trading Post" comes with Porsche Club GB's magazine and has a good
    selection of used Porsches with reliable history. Worth joining the
    club before buying a Porsche.
    
    Northway at Beenham (0734 714333) are good Porsche specialists and a
    bit closer than RSR. Both do pre-purchase inspections.
    
    Also try the magazine "911 and Porsche World" - bigger newsagents only.
    
    Rgds John (87 944S)

    RE .251
    
    	Jonathan,
    
    	I've made a small compilation of 911 models from 1970 to 1980:
    Not all models are there (i.e. US,Japan,Targas).
    (Source: Paul Frere's book)
    
    			Liters	Power	Weight (kg)	Ratio HP/kg
    1970	911T	2.2	125	1020            0.12
    		911E	2.2	155	1020            0.15
    		911S	2.2	180	1020            0.18
    
    1971	911T	2.4	130	1050            0.12
    		911E	2.4	165	1050            0.16
    		911S	2.4	190	1050            0.18
    
    1973	RS	2.7	210	1075            0.20
    
    1974	911	2.7	150	1075            0.14
    		911S	2.7	175	1075            0.16
    		Carrera	2.7	210	1075            0.20
    
    1975	911	2.7	150	1075            0.14
      		911S	2.7	175	1075            0.16
    		Carrera	2.7	210	1075            0.20
    		911/3.0	3.0	200	1120            0.18
    		930/3.0	3.0	260	1140            0.23
    
    1976	911	2.7	165	1075            0.15
    		911S	2.7	165	1100            0.15
    		911/3.0	3.0	200	1120            0.18
    		930/3.0	3.0	260	1140            0.23
    
    1977	911	2.7	165	1120            0.14
    		911S	2.7	165	1120            0.15
    		911/3.0	3.0	200	1120            0.18
    		930/3.0	3.0	260	1195            0.22
    
    1978	911SC	3.0	180	1160            0.16
    		930/3.3	3.3	300	1300            0.23
    
    1979	911SC	3.0	188	1160            0.16
    		930/3.3	3.3	300	1300            0.23
    
    1980	911SC	3.0	188	1160            0.16
    		930/3.3	3.3	300	1295		0.23			
    

    How much does the panel think the following car would be worth ? It's
    my mum's car and she's whats to sell it. She's been offered 6�K (GBP)
    for it ... I tend to think it's worth more.
    
    	The car is a 911 SC Targa in white with Martini strips. Its done
    less than 60K miles (58k I think) and is in very good condition. There
    is no rust except for a slight bubble near the fuel filler cap.
    
    			Liters	Power	Weight (kg)	Ratio HP/kg
    1979(T)	911SC	3.0	188	1160            0.16
    
    I'm pretty sure it's '79, it's definatly the 188bhp model and is 100%
    original.

    .259�    	It may be because I got one of these that I disagree totally with 
    .259�    your feeling about the 3.0 Turbo.
    .259�    	It's not heavy, it's even the lightest Turbo model (1240Kg -
    .259�    compared to the about 1500kg of the latest)
    
    My statement about the heaviness of the 930 is not only about the dry
    weight. As I said I appreciate driving it on a motorway, but on twisty
    country or mountain roads the 930 is a dog. The turbo lag is terrible,
    meaning that you will almost never be able to power steer the car
    through corners.
    
    The 2.0, 2.2, 2.4S and 2.7 Carreras are so much more nice and fun to
    drive (and efficient) ! You can get very late and hard on the brakes
    into the corner and immediately jump onto the throttle (kart driving).
    
    When I was a member of the Geneva Porsche Club I remember a week-end at
    Ledenon. Ledenon is a very 'technical' driving circuit. Most normally
    aspirated cars were faster than the 930s. 
    
    Of course that does not apply to fast circuits like Paul Ricard, but 
    even there I could go faster with my 240bhp 2.7 Carrera for most of the
    track except the far end of the long straight where the 3.3 Turbos
    could pass (of course I would regain my position in the double right
    hander following the straight ...)
     

    re:262
    
    I haven't seen one at less than �8k. If it's got full service history,
    I'd expect closer to �9k.
    
    All the ones in the recent club "Trading Post" are over �10k (mostly
    1980 models)
    
    Rgds John

    
    FOR SALE:
    
    This is really unique. We (a good friend of mine who runs a vintage
    Porsche garage here in holland) and I found recently a model '74 911 E
    coupe which originally has run only 30k kms. Never has been driven in
    bad wheather like even rain!!! 
    It is really like new. We found it in Germany and imported it to
    holland.
    
    Prev. owner sold it because he bought a new one (one every twenty
    years?) 
    It the first of the new bumper models, color orange with the optional 
    cibi� lamps on the front hood (very rare, I'm looking for a pair of 
    those myself).
    
    Anybody interested?
    
    Frits.

    .265
    
    And how much buys this dream???

    re .265 �model '74 911 E
    
    The list in .261 shows the last year they made 911E was 1971.
    
    Royston

    re .-2
    
    This 'dream' is sold for Dfl. 60.000,--, what is about 21,500 pound.
    
    re .-1
    
    According to your interpretation of this list in '73 only the carrera
    RS was made. Well, this is absolutely not true. 
    
    b.t.w. sorry for the late reaction, i've been on vacation.
    
    Frits.
    

    
    Hi,
    
    I'm currently restoring an '68 911 Targa. It was equiped with a hard
    (glas) rear window. When I striped the whole body I discovered that it
    has originally been a "soft window" Targa. I would like to bring it
    back to it's original state, so...
    
    I'm looking for:
    
    A soft window equipment for a SWB Targa (911/912), doesn't have to be
    perfect but complete would be nice (also parts are welcome ofcourse).
    
    Anybody who has seen something like that or knows somebody that has it,
    please let me know, this kinda stuff is hard to find here in Europe,
    most Targa's are sold in the US.
    
    Any info is welcome.
    Thanks 
    
    Frits.
    

    
    Frits.
    
    Do you mean the rear 'window' was like a cabriolet hood? I've never
    seen a 911 Targa like that, but it seems a good idea!
    
    Mark

    Yep,
    
    That's the one. The side at the Targa Bar can be release with an zipper
    and the window can be folded inside behind the two backseats. And a small
    tonneau can be put over it.
    
    The first two years of the Targa ('66 & '67) the targa was only
    available with an soft rear window. In modelyear '68 a hard window was
    optionally available. For modelyear '69 (when starting with the longer
    wheelbase) the softwindow was dropped and only the glass window
    available. 
    They are quit rare.
    
    Frits.
    
    
    

    I remember these things very well. Did not last. The thieves were only
    too happy with the soft rear window.
    
    Have you asked your favorite Porsche dealer ? Porsche factory ? Porsche
    club ? Porsche specialists ?
    
    Many cars were sold in the US but many were sold in Europe as well, so
    there should be spares around.

    
    I have asked my Porsche Dealer, and Dutch Porsche Clubs (there are 3
    different clubs only for the 911 model!), but nobody has anything of
    these stuff.
    
    I have to make some calls to some 'older' Porsche Dealers, I heard a 
    lot of these Soft Windows are changed to hard windows in the '70's. 
    There is almost nothing available new from the factory of these parts.
    
    I found out there are only 3 more of these Soft Windows in Holland.
    
    But I keep looking.
    
    Frits.
    
    

    Hi,
    
    Have you considered trying Porsche cars themselves. Over here in the
    UK, Porsche cars GB run a classic section specifically run for the
    purpose of getting those hard to obtain parts. AFN Porsche who share
    PCGB building can be contacted on 0 734 303911.
    
    Regards,
    Steve Killoran
    84' Carrera Sport 
       

    
    Hi,
    
    Do you know if this is a section of Porsche Classic GmbH or is this 
    an own Porsche cars GB company? 
    Porsche Classic GmbH doesn't have much of these parts.
    
    Frits.
    

    Hi,
    
    I belive that Porsche Cars GB run it. Contact Steve Kevlin on 01734
    303666. You might also like to try AFN at Isleworth London.
    
    Regards,
    Steve

    I saw a rather remarkable looking car on the road the other day;
    (I was behind and to the right of it at a stop light).
    
    The emblem/label said it was a Porsche 917.
    
    I'm not a car buf, but neither the appearance nor the number was
    familiar. Anyone know anything about it?
    
    Curious,
    	Dave

    
    On the road?!?!?
    
    The Porsche 917 was a flat 12 sportscar (in the raced at Le Mans sense
    of the word) built by Porsche to fill a loophole in the sportscar
    racing rules at the end of the 60s. Basically, the rules said you could
    use an engine up to 5000cc if the car was a production GT, so Porsche
    productionised their race car, but really only as a customer race car.
    
    It was a highly successful car and even made a brief re-appearance in
    the early 80s, just before Group C came about, in the form of the
    Kremer 917K, which had a revised chassis, but was essentialy still a
    917.
    
    However, I've never seen or heard of one on the road, however, I
    believe there's a firm in the US who make a (not too accurate)
    'replica' as a roadgoing kit-car - PERHAPS, this is what you saw rather
    than the real thing. A genuine 917 would be scraping along the road,
    the kit version looking like a slimmer version on road wheels.
    
    Mark  
        

    Yes, the 917 was the endurance race car produced when the FIA decided
    to move to a 3litre engine limit. They forced the 5litre category to
    produce at least 25 cars, which in their opinion was a major blocking
    factor. 
    
    Porsche had then a very weak flat-8 3litre engine mounted in the
    various 908 versions and they knew they could not fight. Instead they
    decided to go for the 5litre category, at the expense of building 25
    cars. I remember the famous picture of 25 917's lined up in the Porsche
    factory for the FIA inspection.
    
    The 917 was entered at LeMans with the usual Porsche drivers team
    (Siffert, Stommelen, Elford, Larrousse, ...). The 1st version of the
    917 was terrible. At top speed it required the entire track width and
    the drivers quickly became scared of driving it. Siffert, who by no
    means could be called a coward, refused to drive it at LeMans 1971.
    
    Various aerodynamic modifications were tried in order to improve the
    stability of the damn beast. Initially the Porsche works team decided
    to add some movable stabilizers at the rear end. The ACO finally
    refused to enter the cars with those little movable wings arguing
    (rightly) that in case of failure the driver would have no chance to
    escape a high speed cornering accident. Porsche threatened to remove
    their entries but finally made the necessary mods and took the start.
    
    Porsche had entered the cars under their own name as well as under 
    Porsche Austria. They then recognized they should also sell the cars 
    to other competent teams, which was their best idea.
    
    Gulf team, led by John Wyer, bought a number of 917 chassis and fixed
    the aerodynamics problems by cutting the rear end and making look like
    a big wing. This time they had enough downforce to keep the monster on
    the track. The 917 then began a successful career either with John
    Wyer's Gulf team or with the Martini team. Ickx, Redman, ... etc
    ... drove it to victory.
    
    Aerodynamics studies had made a lot of progress by then and the 917 got
    back its long aerodynamic rear end with much more downforce than the
    initial version had.
    
    The 5litre engine was a flat-12, initially producing around 400bhp.
    Several modifications raised the power to around 500bhp. Torque was
    enormous. One of the problems often encountered with the race Porsches
    was unnoticed breaks in the tubular frame. With its enormous power and
    torque the 917 could instantly become very dangerous. Porsche had all
    917s equipped with a simple device: the tubular frame was always
    pressurised and a manometer was mounted on the dashboard. In case of
    pressure drop the driver knew that a crack had appeared in the tubes
    and he had to stop immediately. 
    
    One fatality however was to be registered with the 917. At the start of
    the LeMans 1971, driver John Woolfe (sp?) probably did not lock the
    gullwing door of his 917 properly. He lost the car at high speed in the
    very fast and tricky section of Maison Blanche during the 1st lap while
    holding 3rd position. Next year the ACO decided to change the start
    procedure. From then on, the driver starts seated and strapped in the
    car rather than running across the track, jumping into the car, etc ...
    as had been the case for decades at Le Mans.
     
    At the end of its career, the 917 went into 2 directions: to the USA
    were a turbocharged version was made for the CANAM series and later
    back to Europe in the Interseries races.
    
    Some of the 917 parts and lessons are to be found on todays cars: the
    brakes of the high end 993 and Turbo come from the 917 as well as many
    parts inside the gearbox and final drive. Several museums have 917s, I
    think the N�rburgring has several, Porsche have kept at least 1, Le
    Mans has 1, Rosso Bianco has 1, etc ...
                                           

    Well done Mark, you win by 1 minute !

    Thanks for the info...
    
    It did have a huge (pardon my terminology) sculptued rear; my initial
    reaction was "plenty of downward thrust there"; it did have (US) road
    tail-lights, and a normal license plate; now that you mention it, I
    remember thinking the doors must open upwards. It was extremely low to 
    the ground; as the guy went across the intersection (with the normal 
    tire wear depressions in the asphalt) I thought it was going to scrape.
    The engine was deep/throaty, but it was obvious that he wasn't pushing 
    it at all when he left us behind :-) Can't remember about the tires.
    
    'twas a remarkable sight  :-)
    
    (Actually, it was almost as interesting watching the reactions of other 
     drivers as they went by us at the light as it was looking at the car.)
    
    	Dave

There were a couple of road registered 917s - one in California, and one in the
Channel Islands. So it COULD have been the real article. However, more likely
to have been a replica. Doing an engine rebuild every couple of weeks would be
enough to try anyones' patience!

The Gulf 917s were the featured car in the Steve McQueen film "Le Mans" (a film
with scarcely any recognisable plot, but great shots of Porsches and Ferraris).

-Steve

    
    Who needs a plot with pictures like that :^)
    
    Mark

    Le Mans a film in which Derek Bell had great fun taking Paul Newman
    into a corner rather faster than Newman expected !
    
    Steve

    The Thames Valley region of the PCGB is holding it's annual Concours
    thsi weekend (11th June) at Basildon Park near Pangbourne. 
    
    Judging starts at 2pm, however if you want to enter your Porsche into
    the contest, entry can be gained at 12 O'clock giving just enough time
    to get that layer of fly squash removed (Unless you are one of the
    cling film brigade !). If you are intending to enter please ring Duncan
    Samual on either 01865 61956 (eves) or 01865 66241 (office). Oh, by the
    way entry to the concours is �7 per car, this also gets you access to
    Basildon House.
    
    See you there.
    
    Steve (84 911 Carrera sport)  
    

    Seen a programme on satelite last week on classic cars and the one that
    they were doing was the porsche 911.
    One of the snippets was that it was originaly to be called the 901 but
    Puegot had the franchise that all their cars middle model number had
    a zero in it.They complained to porsche and it was changed to the 911.
    The designers were also saying that the latest model is in their 
    opinion the best and there is not much further that they can go with 
    it.

    .286� One of the snippets was that it was originaly to be called the 901 but
    .286� Puegot had the franchise that all their cars middle model number had
    .286� a zero in it.They complained to porsche and it was changed to the 911.
    
    This story appears in many books, including Paul Frere's. True, Peugeot
    have secured all 3 digit numbers with a zero in the middle. Original
    911 drawings were actually labeled 901-xxxx. OK for Porsche but then what
    about Ferrari and their various 206, 308 GTB, 308 GTS ?

    Hmmmm,
    
    What about the Rover '100' ???
    
    Jonathan

    re .288
    
    �What about the Rover '100' ???
    
    Hmmm, let's see
    
    Rover 111
    Rover 114
    
    Nope, no middle '0' there.
    
    Clive

There's no middle '0' in the Rover 200, 400 and 800 either, but that's what the 
series' are called...


helpfully,
m.

    
    
    	My friend is thinking of buying a 944 Turbo (think it's an SE)
    	1987 model. The car looks OK and has a service history. It has
    	82k on the clock.
    	Is there anything he should look out for ?
    
    	Graham.

    Graham,
    
    Joining the Porsche Club (of GB) would be a sound investment, at 
    around �35/year.   He'd then have access to technical experts
    who could certainly advise on things to look for, as well as to
    a registry which would show previous owners of the car in question if 
    they'd been Porsche Club members. 
    
    Porsche Club GB, Ayton House, West End, Northleach, Glos,. GL54 3HD
    Tel: 01451 860792  Fax: 01451 860011
    
    Cheers, 
     Diane

    
    Insurance for one thing, also if he wants to maintain its value he will
    also have to keep up the service history, and serviceing these cars are
    not cheap. Go into the purchase with the understanding that paying for
    it isn't the end of the expense and it'll be a nice car to have.
    
    What year is it and how much os it, I've seen ordainary 944's for under
    5k and theres a 90 on a G, Turbo for 9K in the E&M, now thats cheap
    motoring.
     
    
    

    
    
    	Dianne,
    
    	Thanks...he has contacted the club who were VERY helpfull.
    	They have given him the name of a local garage that will inspect
    	the car for about �40 (significantly better than the AA who want
    	�250!)
    
    	Regards,
    
    	Graham.

A small question for the Porsche anoraks out there.

About two years ago, whilst driving up the A1, I was slowly overtaken by a
white 928. As it passed me, I noticed that it had a "Sport" logo along the
top of the left front wheelarch (ala. 944 Turbo LE and 924 GT). As it passed,
I though that it had larger (but still original design) rear wheels (by about
10mm ?) which filled out the rear arches. Odd I thought, but it looked better
than the S4.

Then, late last year, I was at a Porsche rally and, amongst all the 911s, I
found a black 928, which had larger wheel arches. These looked 'factory' but
the wheels were of the modern 911 style - almost certainly added later.

Anyway, I have concluded that these 928s were the elusive 928 Club Sport. The
CS was (I understand) a lightweight 928, with more power and the manual
gearbox. It didn't sell well, and the UK importers had the factory put back
in the electric windows and seats, plus the air conditioning and other luxury
bits and bobs. They kept the box and the engine and used the S4 bodyshell, but
the weight was back to almost that of the S4. Hence the 928 GT was born. I
didn't think that the CS was ever imported into the UK, but these two cars were
RHD.

Now... am I correct ? Does anyone else have any info on what was, and became of
the 928 Club Sport ?  How does it compare to the later 928 GTs (bearing in mind
that the GT had two engine specs - the latest being more pokey) ?

Thanks,
Ross

    I thought that the CS was imported into the UK - with the extras as you
    stated. The GT came a year or so latter. As for their comparative
    performance I've no idea. Mind you the whole concept of a 928CS seems a
    bit odd to me - the GT and GTS are about as "crude" as you'd want to go
    in a 928 (IMO). If you want a balls out racer then go for one of the
    much lighter Porches that are about (924 Carrera, 911 Carrera 2.7, 911
    Carrera 3, 911 CS, 968 CS, that new 1.5M DM 911 for designed for next
    years LM, etc). The 928 is designed and the ultimate autobarn stormer
    with the added advantage that it corners well - not something for the
    track - though I have seen brave people try (with some success).
    
    Rik
    
    PS What the going rate for a 924 Carrera these days ? I would still
    quite fancy one.

� What the going rate for a 924 Carrera these days ? I would still
� quite fancy one.

    Er... dunno, but I suspect that about #15,000 and upwards would see you
    with one. I know where there's a red one for sale (but it's been so for
    so long now it's almost definitely suspect).

    They are simply the most wonderful drivers cars. My best drive EVER was
    driving mine back from Geneva at about 2 in the morning, in the rain.
    Ah... what memories. Who needs video games with cars like that.
    Must dust it off one day.

    Still... as I'm unlikely ever to get a 924GTS CS, I might settle for
    a matching black 928 CS.

Ross

� What the going rate for a 924 Carrera these days ? I would still
� quite fancy one.

    I know of a couple for sale, one for 11k.

    I went to the Porsche National day on Sunday and was talking to Derek
    Bell about his GTS. Apparently, it has about 300bhp and was good for
    an indicated 170mph ! He had it there (but hidden away) and was good
    enough to open the bonnet so I could have a look. I was surprised at
    how different the GTS engine is. It certainly isn't a "tweaked" GT 
    motor (and I suspect that his was in a higher state of tune than the
    "standard" GTS).

Ross