Conference terri::cars_uk

    I agree with Richard as I'm a qualified guy as well.
    Similar situation in Holland.
    I used to have a BX RD estate at my previous job at DG.
    I'm driving now a Peugeot 505 1.8 on LPG, but due to TAX changes,
    I have to change car. I have ordered a BX estate 1.6 model TGI.
    This is the followup of the BX 1.6RS estate, but with fuel injection.
    For a little more money you have 12 HP more, rev counter, height
    adjustment for driver seat etc.
    Due to tinted glass order: 3 months lead time!
    
    Hans Duinhoven Holland Utrecht

    Hans - the "height" adjustment is in fact a tilt adjustment. If
    your head hits the roof, it will still hit the roof whatever the
    tilt adjuster is set at, unless you allow the back to be raked more
    in relation to the absolute vertical. In my GTi, if the backrest
    is set so I can reach the wheel, the tilt does not help at all with
    my head impcting the roof. The rake adjuster is on the seat frame,
    so if you tilt the seat up, the backrest will tilt back as the seat
    tips up.
         
    Steve

The reason I ask is that I ran out of fuel yesterday evening on the M1.

I had only doen 540 miles on a tankful, and it only took about 12 gallons or
so to fill it.

It's supposed to be a 14� gallon tank, according to the handbook...

I thought the fueld gauage was just under-reading, and was getting it
checked at the next service...

So a question for other DTR turbo drivers; how big is your fuel tank....


Peter.

    I understand that DERV can foam as you fill up, and that the tank
    can thus appear to be full of fuel when it is in fact full of bubbles.
    This is particularly true if you fill up at commercial pumps, which
    run at a prodigious rate to brim the 60 gallon tanks.
    
    Steve

re .352; thanks for that, but I tend to use the car pumps, which don't
go at anything like that rate, and I let the foam settle, so I'm certain
I haven't got 2 gals worth of foam in there!!

I never had this problem with my previous DTR, which had the 11� gallon tank.

Peter.

    This morning I saw a  >>BX  TGD turbo <<< not sure which model it
    replaces but following logic it's the RD turbo.
    
    However the "of interest" was that the rear lights were of the smoked
    variety a la the new 16 valve. Also, the stop light is the long
    vertical light, in the place formerly taken by the rear fog light.
    
    I'm speculatinog if this is the new light cluster across the range!.
    
    Richard

    
    TDG and TZD are the new model types for the old DTR and RD (I think).
    amusingly, PHH just rejected a quote - on the basis that the model
    name had changed while the request was in the post.
    
    (for further thoughts on lease car operators, see notes.... Oh,
    most of the rest of the conference!)
    
    
    Ian
    

In the recent change of names for the BX we have the announcement of the 4x4 
versions of both car and estate.

Any thoughts?

My own initial reaction was that the variable height suspension was impressive 
but the absence of a two speed transfer case and the inability to use sensible 
tyres (a minimum of 7.50x16 or 235/85R16 is required) prevent me from taking it
seriously.

/. Ian .\

    
    Re .356
    
    It really depends on what you think they intend the 4WD to do.
    
    From what you've been saying recently you are looking for a serious
    off-road vehicle. I doubt very much that Citroen are aiming the
    4WD BX at that market. It's just a competitor to the 4WD Cavaliers
    and such like that  have come onto the market recently and any
    advantage that they have is SUPPOSED (I have no experience) to be
    on the road.
    
    Mark

Where did you get the info on the 4x4? I was in the dealer in Speen at lunchtime
and they didn't mention it when I asked about top of the range BXs.


Jc

the 4x4 car/estate are listed in this month's "What Car?" as new releases.

Yes I admit they probably aren't in the market I'm looking at (the French 
Auverlander is closer to what I'm looking for), though with the BX suspension 
it is a pity - since they easily could be. This is not a foreign market to 
Citroen who market the Mihara (sp?) in this space very effectively.

Subaru and others have proven that you can sell a good general purpose 4x4 
station wagon quite effectively, and with a markedly superior suspension it 
seems a pity that Citroen are missing the boat.

/. Ian .\

    
    Surely the Mehari is closer to the Mini Moke market? Or am I confusing
    it with something else?
    
    Mark

       Is the Citroen suspension REALLY suitable for 4WD? I seem to
       remember that one of the reasons for the failure of the Austin
       Gypsy (Land Rover lookalike) was its 'comfortable' suspension. In
       off-road situations the absence of a kidney jarring ride resulted
       in owners pushing the vehicle to beyond its limits.

       Ian.

       P.S. I hope the BX is more sophisticated than the 2CV implementation
       of 4WD (the Sahara?)  That achieved power to all wheels by putting
       a second engine in the boot!

Well yes (though I'd prefer to equate it to the Suzuki SJ410/413 than the two 
wheel drive Moke), but my point is that Citroen understand the 4x4 market (which 
is more than can be said of Vauxhall). The BX would make a good platform for a 
real general purpose 4x4 station wagon, but I fear that what they have actually
produced is yet another yuppie-mobile boulevard cruiser.

/. Ian .\

just to close down confusion:

the Sahara had two engines (crude!)

the Mehara has one engine, and a seven speed gear box and three speed transfer
box - it is a very competant, though somewhat limited - off road "buggy" style
vehicle.

The BX suspension is somewhat soft, but the related XM proves that you can 
stiffen up the suspension when you need to - perhaps with a Daihatsu style 
lever rather than the XM style computer. Take out the anti-roll bars, replace 
the road tyres with Michelin 7.00x16 mud & sand off road tyres, give it a 
(Citroen) centre diff and transfer case, and you are well on the way to having
a practical off roader. Reduce the rear over-hang, and the rake on the tailgate 
and it'll help more at modest loss of internal capacity.  

/. Ian .\

    RE New model type indicators.
    
    I'll receive my new BX Break 16 TGI next week and my room-mate will
    have his (still old 16 TRI)
    To clear misunderstandings about model types, I'd like to present
    this in a table:
             
    For all versions: No carburettors available anymore
    
    Old  |New
    ----------------------------
    RE   |TGI I=injection
    RD   |TGD
    TRS  |TZI (S version is obsoleted per 1-1-1990)
    RS   |TG           same issue
    TRD  |TZD
    
    For the simple versions the injection will be monopoint, while the
    TZI versions will have multipoint injection.
    
    N.B. lets stick with the BX topics please and stop 4 X 4 issues
    
    Hans
                               

       Re -1
       >   N.B. lets stick with the BX topics please and stop 4 X 4 issues

       I knew as soon as the discussion started, that it wouldn't be long
       before someone said that. (See previous notes in this topic on reverse
       gear).

       Is there something about the temprament of BX owners that makes
       them resist any deviation from the discussion of their cars? Or
       should I raise that in the CARISM note! :-)


       Ian.

>>                    <<< Note 37.364 by HOO78C::DUINHOVEN >>>
>>                   -< Revised modeltypes; Let's stop 4 X 4 >-
    
    I detect your not noting from the UK, we usually have a different range
    of models to other countries (e.g. we have DTR not TRD), therefore I'll
    try to get the UK answer over the weekend.
    
    
    Richard

re lets stop the 4x4 issues:

Citroen introduced the 4x4, not me.

The fact (or at least some people's opinion) that it is totally useless for 
anything other than boulevard cruising is surely relevant to the discussion of 
the BX as a marque.

I reiterate: Citroen have introduced a model of BX (the 4x4) that is a total 
aberration, a waste of money, and, in that 4x4 induces driver confidence which 
isn't warranted, it is positively dangerous.

/. Ian .\

    Checked out the new models
    
    Comment about no more carburettors DOESN'T apply to UK. Smoked rear
    light cluster standard across range. New bumper trim and colouring. 
    
    In summary TG replaces R, TZ replaces TR. 
    
    TG(S,D) get tacho, tilt seats, lights on warning.
    
    TZ(S,D) get electric adjust passenger mirror, IR remote central
    locking, interior light delay, one-shot drivers window, GTi style
    wheels.
    
    GTi get electric adjust & heated drivers mirror, new wheel trims.
    
    Don't know about any new interior trims.
    
    Richard (who wants to know what else they can possibly add in the next
    set of changes due before I order in late August :-) :-)  )
     

Interestingly it appears that the two 4x4 BXs have a different philosphy: to
whit the hatchback 4x4 is a variant of the GTi, with ABS standard etc.

The station wagon however is much more basic, and ABS is not only not standard
but according to "What Car" (not the best source, but the only one to hand), not
even available!

So, I'll reserve further judgement till I have more data.

(Still think the rear overhang is excessive for a 4x4 though :-)

/. Ian .\

    Yes,
    
    I'm Dutch......
    
    My TGI Break has arrived at the garage, I'll report the details
    when I have received it
    
    Hans

    Oh dear,
    
    just when I had decided on a Fiat Tipo TD, they up the spec on the BX
    again . . now what do I do???
    
    Peter.
    
    P.S: re a couple back - Ian Preece - you're not due a replacement
    already, are you??

    Got it now!
    
    Last Thursday I picked up my BX 16 TGI Break (estate)
    It immediately had to suffer the havy storm (forces 12 on the Dutch
    coast) and at the following night take my wife to hospital in this
    storm to have our family expanded with a daughter!
    
    All is well.
    
    About the 4x4: This is not yet introduced officially in Holland,
    so I did not know. The BX note seemed to drift in the direction
    of Mehari's ....; sorry for this Ian & Richard.
    My TGI does not have a rev. counter....
    It has tilted seats, rear seats are possible to fold in left and
    right sections. Engine is lively & not noisy!
    
    Being migrating from a Peugeot 505 to this one: I can recommend
    this BX!

    Does anyone have a new price list for the latest BX's, including
    the 4x4? A colleague has the shiny brochure on the 4x4 GTi, and
    it only mentions the 4x4 estate in passing.
    
    It does mention "position the ride control to high, engage the
    differential lock, and the car is transformed into a veritable mountain
    climber."
    
    It's fitted with MXT4 all weather tyres, whatever they are...
    
    The 4x4 GTi has 4 wheel drive with TORSEN differential Torque split
    53:47 Front:rear.
    
    The estate just has 4 wheel drive...
    
    performance	GTi	Estate
    0-60	9.7	10.4
    Max speed	119	112
    Urban	23.7	26.9
    56 mph	39.8	42.2
    75 mph	31.7	32.5
    
    The GTI is to full GTI spec, including ABS, etc.
    The estate seems to be at TRS spec (or it's new equivalent)
    
    Peter.
    

From February "What Car?"

	BX 14 TGE		� 7758
	BX 16 TGS		� 9249
	BX 16 TZS		�10416
	BX 17 TGD		� 9120
	BX 19 TGD		�10100
	BX TGD Turbo		�10950
	BX 19 TZD		�10950
	BX TZD Turbo		�12149
	BX 19 TZS		�10899
	BX 19 GTi		�12350
	BX 19 GTi 4x4		� ?
	BX 16 Valve		�14549

	BX 16 TGS Estate	� 9700
	BX 19 TGD Estate	�10550
	BX TZD Turbo Estate	�12441
	BX 19 TZS Estate	�11350
	BX 4x4 Estate		� ?
	BX 19 TZi Estate	�12750

/. Ian .\

    Thanks a lot, Ian... shame about no 4x4 prices yet!
    
    Peter.
    
    (who definately won't be ordering an estate, if it makes your wife
    have a baby the next day like .371!!! - congrats by the way!)
    

    Just visited the Basingstoke dealers, Hadley's, for a BX brochure.
    
    The price for the GTi 4x4 saloon is �13,899

    Have you a full brochure? does it mention whether seat trims have
    changed??
    
    Richard

>   Have you a full brochure? 
    
    There's just an open out 3 page leaflet thingy with some advertising
    blurb and a list of features on the back.
    
>   does it mention whether seat trims have
    changed??
 
    No, just mentions velour upholstery standard on hatchback and not
    available on the estate.
                            

I picked up the latest BX brochures last week - there is a 20 page (approx)
glossy on the range, and extra (smaller)  ones on specific
models. I got the 8 page TZD Turbo one.

Some seat trims have changed; the TZ's have new tweed trim.

Do you have a specific question that I may be able to answer?

(ooops, I slipped into car salesman mode there..)

Peter

    Just picked a brochure up, The tweed's not actually new. These were the
    original type fitted to the TR range. They are a light mottled-grey coarse
    wool-like tweed, and it's the coarseness I can't stand.
    
    For a while they changed to the type (I think) you have peter, a
    grey/blue stripe, much finer material much more comfortable. However,
    they then went BACK to the tweed, and have carried it over to the TZ
    spec.
    
    Thus I'm contemplating the turbo for the better shaped and velour
    covered seats.
    
    Richard

    This topic has been quiet for a bit, so I thought impart some
    information to those owners of leased BX 16V's who might be needing a 
    new exhaust component.
    
    Now both Hertz and PHH have recommended suppliers for things such as
    tyres, exhausts, and batteries, and do not allow garages to fit these
    items even if found to be defective during a service call. This is
    because the lease companies believe these outlets are cheaper. No problem
    usually, just pop along to ATS/Kwik-Fit/etc, and get then to fit a
    replacement. The problem is that the companies, and there are only 2 or
    3, that supply these outlets, do not make exhaust components for the BX
    16V.
    
    I am just about to take my car back to the garage for a second time to
    fit a new rear box (loose baffles), because when they found the problem
    at the 36k service, Hertz made them take off the new box that they
    fitted. It was then, by doing the rounds of the approved suppliers, that 
    I found out that only Citroen garages supply 16V exhausts, and it took 
    three phone calls and two days to convince Hertz too that this was the 
    case.
    
    You'd think that three years after a model had been introduced, a leasing 
    company would know by now where their customers can obtain the parts
    that they need to keep their vehicles on the road. I think it's highly
    unlikely that I will use their services again.
    
    One small recompense is that the garage charged for removing the new
    box, and Hertz have now got to pay a second day's relief car hire. So
    much for saving on operating costs!
    
    	Dick

    Had the same problem with my Pug 205 1.9 - Peugeot refuse to endorse
    pattern exhaust parts and say that engine damage may result.  A phone
    call to PHH led to some umming and erring but in the end they agreed to
    use a Peugeot part for the exhaust.
    
    
    John

Any comments on head room in the BX (GTI) ?

I've not got around to a test drive yet.. but just sitting
in it (at the showroom) showed that there seems to be only about
an inch of head room available for me (and I'am only 5'10)

I took a test drive in one - I kept banging my head against the roof (which
is lower where the sun roof goes). 

Jc

    RE HEADROOM PROBLEMS:
    
    Why not changing to the BX "Break" estate car.
    I'm quite happy with the car and nobody had problems with headroom
    problems. At the rear seat, there is even more room, while the roof
    is a bit higher there.
    
    Hans

I'm 6'5" and I had a test drive in a BX with a sunroof.  I was quite close but 
not hitting the roof!  I had another test drive in one without a sunroof and 
that's fine - I'm getting one!

I suppose it depends what proportions you are - I generally find legroom much 
more of a problem than headroom.

Jon

RE: -1 We must have different proportions. I'm a smidging taller than you
(6ft 5"+ = 1m 96cm for the continentals) and found a BX 16V test drive a 
disaster from head room point of view - second only to a Bee 'eM 3 series.
I kept knocking the indicator stalks with my knees as well (may be I should
have put the seat back fully? :-) ).

    I ordered and took delivery of a BX GTi in September. I swapped
    it for a Ford in February, for exactly this reason. I had the seat
    cushion out three times to see if there was some way I could modify
    it; I have correspondence with Citroen in Slough, who could only
    suggest cutting the mountings off the floorpan and welding in new
    ones. I couldn't face another two years of a bent head, so I got
    rid of it.
    
    Shame really that a basically terrific car is let down by detail
    design; I also could not reach the heater or radio controls from
    the drivers seat without leaning forward and taking my eyes off
    the road, the fog lamp switch is not visible (at my head height)
    from the drivers seat, the quirky single wiper left about one third
    of the view of the road unswept.
    
    I loved the car, but couldn't stand it. I hate the ford, but I can
    stand it.
    
    Steve

    re -.1 did you order one 'sight unseen'?. Didn't you ever sit in one?,
    did you never have a test-drive?.
    
    For a start, I know as a driver of two 'lesser' models ('R' spec), the
    seats with the tilt option do sit slightly higher up than the 'fixed'
    variety. Now, unfortunately for you tall people, these ase appearing on
    these lower models too.
    
>>    Shame really that a basically terrific car is let down by detail
>>    design; I also could not reach the heater or radio controls from
>>    the drivers seat without leaning forward and taking my eyes off
>>    the road, the fog lamp switch is not visible (at my head height)
>>    from the drivers seat, the quirky single wiper left about one third
>>    of the view of the road unswept.
    
    Come on now, you can't blame the car for this!. This is not a fault
    with the CAR. It's a fault with your view from the car. The only one
    on the list I agree with is the radio position, I can adjust the heater
    controls whilst maintaining a view of the road, and without leaning
    forward. I can see all the indicators, and I have an unimpeded view of
    the road.
    
    Richard

    Good luck, Richard, you manage to fit this car.
    
    I don't. I took a test drive, but had to do the usual selling job
    to get a five minute run. The bumf said there was a height adjustment;
    I should have checked further that it is in fact a tilt adjustment,
    which is no use to me.
    
    I accept that I should have tested further, but I was (and still
    am) surprised and disappointed that Citroen cannot fit someone of
    my stature.
    
    My stature? 5'11.5". Not vast by 1990 standards.
    
    BTW, I forgot to mention headlamps with no discernable beams. I
    couldn't check those in a test drive.
    
    If I could only have fitted it, I would have kept it, remaining
    warts and all.
    
    Steve

                      <<< Note 37.390 by SUBURB::PARKER >>>

    
>    I took a test drive, but had to do the usual selling job
>    to get a five minute run. 


I think if you contact fleet admin they can contact
citroen fleet.. and arange for a test drive of about
a week (I think there's a note about it in this topic
somewhere)

donknow if you can still do this.. I may give it a
try later on

    As a 5'11�" owner of a BX (now my 2nd) I agree that a few silly,
    relatively minor details let the car down - from being superb to being
    very good. The wash/wipe arrangement is, my opinion, the single biggest
    "annoyance factor" with the car. Other quirks of mine are either
    addressed in the new models (eg one-shot electric front window buttons)
    or I can live with (eg placement of radio).
    
    I have an estate with a manual sunroof and have my seat pulled a little 
    further forward than I would in an upright position and tilted back quite 
    a way. I have no trouble at all with headroom.
    
    Sorry about the Ford. Lots of guts but no refinement at all!
    
    Colin

.392�    I have an estate with a manual sunroof and have my seat pulled a little 
.392�    further forward than I would in an upright position and tilted back quite 
.392�    a way. 
    
.392>>    I have no trouble at all with headroom.

    I can't see how these 2 statements fit together - one says I have
    to alter the seat until it is uncomfortable before I fit - and the
    other says I fit.
    
    Personally I like to drive in a comfortable position, and still
    not hit my head - and at 6'5" that is not always easy...

    I admit that I had to fiddle with seat positions a bit but at 6'3"
    I don't have any real problems apart from the daft position of the
    Radio - hence thats being replaced by a CD on a stick (multi changer
    in the boot, control unit on a gooseneck next to the steering wheel).
    No more waiting for a straight stretch of road before changing tapes.
    No more  tapes!!!
    
    An aside, any problems with sunroof rattle?
    
    Nigel.

    re -2
    
    I LIKE it that way! I find it the most comfortable compromise between
    legroom without stretching too far.
    
    re -1
    
    The roof does rattle a bit over bumpy roads - annoying but not
    intolerably so.
    
    Colin

    I had a screw fall out of my sunroof after a couple of months, but
    I did not see that as a problem. It was fixed at the next service.
    
    Anyway, on French cars I thought it was a design feature :-)
    
    Steve

    Had a BX 19 GTi for 13 months, and the sunroof blind (not glass!) has
    been open for the full time. My 6' 2" only in fits if I have the extra
    inch up to the glass available.
    
    The only noise I get off the sunroof is wind-noise, which can be
    annoying and is part of the reason I fitted two extra speakers into the
    rear pillars.
    
    In order to get comfortable my knees are fairly close to the steering
    column and stalks - I worry a bit about if I'd still have kneecaps
    after as head-on collision. Likewise the head-restraints are very low
    (previous chariot was an XR3 with excellent restraints), and my neck
    may not survive a rear-end collision.
    
    Reading this I wonder why I still have the car! - but I like it.
    Jay

    >>                    <<< Note 965.39 by NEARLY::GOODENOUGH >>>
    >>                               -< It's arrived >-
    
    >>    Took delivery of my new R21 yesterday.  I'm very pleased with it. 
    >>	The suspension is a dream compared with the BX, and I thought *that*
    >>	was good.  
    
    
    interesting this, I've had problems with my suspension of late, tending
    to have a lateral roll. i.e. unpredictably, and even on roads you
    wouldn't consider uneven you find yourself being jerked from side to
    side. Got so bad I realised that it was getting a bad back with it.
    
    The dealer kept saying "no-problem" so in the end I got Hertz to try it
    out. They agreed and agreed to pay for whatever work. I booked it in at
    a time when the Citroen rep happened to be at the garage, he tried it
    and recommended replacing both front suspension spheres. This has cured
    the roll, but I still feel the suspension is not as good as when new.
    
    Your comment rather suggests that this suspension, whilst good when new,
    does tend to fall off in quality through age. Anyone else notice this?.
    
    Richard

    Havn't noticed any deterioration on the suspension of my 16V, although
    after 2 years of hammering to work along some pretty awful country
    lanes it's got a few more clonks and rattles then when it was new.
    However, I've always felt that the car could do with a little more roll
    resistance and slightly stiffer suspension. Even some decent lateral
    support on the seats (or decent seats!) wouldn't go amiss.
    
    Having said that, I may still go and get another one when the lease
    runs out in 4 months time.
    
    Dick

Just a BTW.. my 'my' TZD TD (I've got the demo car till
tomorrow (sob! I dont want to let it go!!) the following
does't seem to work.. any ideas ?

(PS: Its a great car !.. I'am ordering one)


  <<< Note 37.239 by HEWIE::RUSSELL "BX Turbo drivers do it with woooosh!" >>>
                      -< How to adjust a BX handbrake.
 >-

With the engine running, and the car stationary, leave the handbrake off.
Press very hard on the brake, and keep pressing.
After a second or two, you'll feel the pedal "give" slightly.
Engage the handbrake to you preferred level. Leave the handbrake there,
and release the foot brake.

Voila!

The handbrake is now adjusted exactly where you want it.

Hmmm, that sounds a bit more advanced than Moss's suggestion for handbrake
adjustment:

Mount the handbrake in slot-shaped holes in the floor.  When it needs adjusting,
just remount it a bit further forward in the slot!

>>   <<< Note 37.400 by VANDAL::BAILEY "BX Turbo drivers do it with woooosh" >>>

>>Just a BTW.. my 'my' TZD TD (I've got the demo car till
>>tomorrow (sob! I dont want to let it go!!) the following
    
    
    I got a call this morning: " Mr Davies, we've called about collecting
    the BX turbo youve got on demo"
    
    Me "That's good, but can you deliver it first!" 
    
    I'm due to get it next week, they seem to think I had it monday, was
    that you?. If so please give it back, I want it :-).
    
    Richard 
    
    P.S. dunno about setting the handbrake where you want... but usually
    you can get the adjuster to step on (it's on the front discs!) by
    pressing harder than normal on the pedal.
    

    re .400;
    
    maybe they've changed it, but this process still works on my current
    DTRT, with ABS fitted....
    
    What happens when you try it? Is the pedal "solid"? You do have
    to push     pretty firmly - you think something will break, but
    it doesn't!
    
    Peter  (looking forward to my TZDT on August 1st, with ABS and AirCon,
    	    and hoping it's a very hot August in the West Country!)
    

         <<< Note 37.402 by UKCSSE::RDAVIES "Live long and prosper" >>>
                        -< After you with the wellie! >-

    
>    I got a call this morning: " Mr Davies, we've called about collecting
>    the BX turbo youve got on demo"
    
>    Me "That's good, but can you deliver it first!" 
    
>    I'm due to get it next week, they seem to think I had it monday, was
>    that you?. If so please give it back, I want it :-).
    

That was me!  .. I got a phone call from Citroen fleet
this morning.. during which they said about the "confusion"
.. and that it was going to DECpark next week

Enjoy it! its a damn nice car

(quick review follows)
Seats ..firm but not hard.. drivers seating position is a
'strange'... either I'am just to far back for comfort..
or my knees are too close to the dashboard.. lots of
'elecie bits'.. sunroof is a bit noisy (so close the
blind).. storage space is limited (small drivers & passengers
door bins.. small dashboard bin (i'am going to have
to cut down on the number of casettes I carry around))
.. boot space  LOADS! .. plenty of space for rear
passengers

Performance: This is a car with a split personality.
.. at low revs (less than 2,000) its a nice flexible
engine..but get over 2,000 revs and this becomes
a car with a message.. and the message is 
GET OUT OF THE WAY...COMING THROUGH
its got loads over power all the way from 20 (ish)
to 90 (maybe past that too) .. I've no
idea what the 0-60 or 50-70 (or whatever) times
are.. buts this is a car able to (at least) keep up
with fast traffic (and its great at somping over
the pseudo 'hot hatch' crowd).. overtaking
is a dream.. and even on the motorway at 70+
in top (5th) overtaking without changing down
is no problem at all 


in brief: its a nice comfy car .. and its fast



(My quote should be back in the next few days..
so I can get an order in.. wonder what the delivery
times are ?)

    I read in the press over the weekend that the BX TZD and the other BX
    diesel model ( ?? ) are both now available with an automatic gearbox
    as an option.
    
    R
    

    re .405;
    
    according to this weeks Autocar, auto is an �814 option on the TGD
    and TZS diesels (yes, they printed it this way...)
    it didn't say whether the turbo was included. This is the
    same price as the petrol option.
    
    Oh, and there was a 3% price increase as well...
    
    Peter
    

    >>Note 1105.29  VOGON::DAWSON "Turn ignition on - Turn brain off!"   <<
    >>                         -< Rear wheel drive problem >-
    
    >>I have had a hire Sierra (GLS - 2 litre, I think) while my BX is in for
    >>major heart surgery. 
    
    Yes I've noticed it there when I've had to call back a couple of
    times. What happened?.
    
    Nosey of DECpark (Richard)

    Dear Nosey,
    
    I heard (from said horse's mouth) that it was a head job - got warped
    by the steam when the gasket went.  About �1K's worth. V::D is v glad
    it's a lease car, needless to say.
    
    Jeff.

    Quite right Jeff! It started blowing water out when it cooled down but
    it turned out to be a little more than just the gasket. I'd be might
    peeved if it were my car just 18 months old....
    
    Colin (who doesn't rev his turbo more than 6500 in ANY gear....!!!!

Well, they say that insanity is inoperable...and to prove it I've just gone and
ordered another BX 16V, but this time with aircon. The reason is that inspite of
the niggling problems that I've experienced over the last couple of years, 
there's still nothing that I can find that gives the same package of performance,
load carrying, and extras, for anything like the same price. And this time I 
have a lease from the company that isn't No 1!! (never have been in my books).

This one's in red this time, and hopefully will arrive at the beginning of Oct,
(just the time to get the aircon going!).

Will let you know more when it arrives.

Dick

Concerning delivery times.. I've been told that "the Citroen
factory will be closed all August for a holiday" thus pushing
out delivery times

Is this right?  A whole month shutdown ?

>> <<< Note 37.411 by VANDAL::BAILEY "Whats this concept called "Spare time"" >>>


>>Concerning delivery times.. I've been told that "the Citroen
>>factory will be closed all August for a holiday" thus pushing
>>out delivery times
>>
>>Is this right?  A whole month shutdown ?
    
    
    Normal as the whole of france will be shut for the month!. 
    
    This does seem a little lame though as these cars are imported, thus
    there will be a healthy stock in the country. It's more likely to
    affect deliveries a couple of months on by which time demand will have
    fallen off.
    
    Richard

If Citroen are shutting down during August, and that's highly likely, then they 
are no different from the other major manufacturers. As far as I know, all car
plants shut down during summer from 4-6 weeks, so the workers on the line can go
on holiday. After all, you try running a production line with 60% of the staff 
at the seaside.

Since running a line is an all or nothing affair, you might as well close the 
factory and get everybody to have a holiday at the same time, rather than 
staying open and having intermittent production for a 12 week period when staff 
are off on holiday.

Makes sound economic sense to me.

Anyway, I can't take delivery until October since the lease on the current BX 
16V doesn't run out until Sept 30th.

Dick

    re the last few;
    
    another reason for the shutdown may be to implement the changes for the
    new model year cars; i.e., change the trim, etc, for the '91 models.
    
    I don't mind; my new BX is being delivered on Friday, so I'll test out
    the air-con, and let you know whetehr it was worth ordering!
    
    Peter.
    

    
    Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
    
    Now I know what all you middle-aged Mutant Hero Turtles rave about!
    
    Citroen sent me a card telling me that I could have a free book of
    country walks if I just test drove one of their cars. Sounded too good
    to be true and as the Renault is due for replacement in February (well
    it'll be paid for then :^)) I though I'd give a BX GTI a spin.
    
    The garage didn't have a 16 valve knocking around, but handed over the
    keys of a E reg 8 valve with about 40,000 miles on the clock. 
    
    The first thing I noticed was that the car doesn't have the old CX 
    seasick inducing ride. The ride is quite firm without being harsh
    and it corners very impressively (if not with quite the assurance
    of the Renault 5 GT Turbo). It is a pretty spacious and large car,
    but with its excellently weighted PAS it feels like a much smaller
    and extremely nimble car.
    
    Performance, too, was impressive with only a little roughness from
    the engine spoiling the overtaking that I soon felt confident enough
    to undertake on single carriageway A and B roads.
    
    With ABS, electric windows and sunroof the BX is also 'well-stacked'
    for the money.
    
    I shall certainly be back at the Citroen dealer in February for a test
    drive of the 16 valve model, which promises acceleration in the
    Renault's area to go with the 5 doors and greater space.
    
    Mark 

    Seen today in Ormsby Cars showroom in Reading.
    
    Exterior paintwork and trim same as 16/19TZS. Seating not as nice
    as GTI - maybe between TZS and GTI in quality.
    
    Me: "What's that?  Haven't seen one of them before."
    
    Salesman: "Beautiful car sir!  Absolutely super, it's got fuel
    injection, it's got..."
    
    "Yes, yes, I know it's fuel injection but what's the difference between
    it and the GTI?  This one isn't in the current brochure" 
    
    "Ah yes sir, well it has a new fuel injection system with twin
    carburettors, whereas..." 
    
    "!"
        
    ...worried huddle with colleague...  
    
    My final interpretation: it probably has single point fuel injection, a
    catalyst as standard, isn't a GTI replacement, and is unlikely to have
    "just about exactly the same performance as the GTI, sir". I didn't
    bother asking for a look under the bonnet. 

    I took delivery of my new TZD Turbo last Friday, and am very pleasantly
    surprised with it.
    
    This is my third BX; I started with a DTR, then got the DTR Turbo, and
    now the TZD Turbo.
    
    The best thing I did was order Air-conditioning; it costs about �250 a
    year on the scheme, and you can't put a value on it on a hot day. I was
    sitting in a jam on the M25 last friday, and all around me were people
    sweltering and suffering. I was sitting in *cold* air.... It's not just
    cool, but cold. Really comfortable.
    
    I've got no idea what impact it'll have on consumption; I'll do a check
    in September. It does make the car a bit noisy on the outside, as it
    uses an extra fan to cool a small radiator at the front, and with two
    fans, my wife said it sounded like a jet engine pulling up!
    
    The rest of the car? very comfortable; the radio and the six speakers
    are better than the old two speaker set up. The electric passnger
    window is a nice novelty, for two minutes... and the car itself looks
    really good in black, with the GTi front and rear spoilers.
    
    I hope it's as reliable as the last two - 100,000 miles with no
    problems.
    
    Peter.
    

    > The electric passnger window is a nice novelty, for two minutes... 
    
    Mirror, did you mean?  I miss having that on my cheapskate new Renault
    21 - either you have a passenger who can work out up, down, left,
    right, or you perform impossible contortions.
    
    Jeff.

    re .419;
    
    oops, yes, sorry, I did mean mirror.
    
    Peter.
    

    DON'T LOOK AT PAGE 4 OF THE CURRENT ISSUE OF AUTO-EXPRESS!!!!!!!!

    Why not?

    There's a BX folded in half (literally) around a lamp-post: folded with
    wheels closing together in a line between centre pillars. How the hell
    she did it I don't know, must have slid on the side, underneath first,
    into the lamp-post at a hell of a speed!
    
    Apparantly the driver crawled out, and has only sustained a broken
    wrist and some bruising.
    
    Richard

    
    She ????????

    
    
    
    I'd like to circulate a note of caution, and solicit input from other
    BX owners about the handbrake. (there's a good alarmist opening for
    you....)
    
    On Friday, my DTR Turbo took a stroll across the car park at SBP and
    parked  itself neatly in the back of a very new Astra (Sorry, Rod....).  
    The handbrake _was_ set at the time, and the car had been parked quite
    contentedly for at least half an hour before it started to move, all by
    itself.
    
    I've since spoken to two other BX users who've had the same thing
    happen.   Anybody else got any experience of this ?  Are we talking
    design faults here ?
    
    Mine is due in the workshop on Wednesday, for a thorough looking-at,
    and I'll be interested to hear what they've got to say.  In the
    meantime, I'm carrying a couple of bricks around with me, to put under
    the wheels when I stop.
    
    
    Ian

Leave it in gear when you park, but don't forget to put it in neutral before
starting!

Scott

Had the same thing happen to me a while back at SBP, it was for a service that 
week so I got them to tighten it up again. I'm at SBP as well, I've got into the
habit of parking in a bay with a drainage channel behind it. Luckily the only 
thing mine hit was the raised edge of the car park, it was parked side on to the
slope. I'm sure it only moved after some time (about 15 mins), someone who'd 
been chased by it came and told me.

Nigel

    Funny this - we had a secretary who had a 2CV which did exactly the
    same thing. 
    
    The handbrake on the car was still in the on position when it was
    recovered from it's new parked position some way away.
    
    I''ve also been told of a Citroen Safari that went walk about in the
    same way through a shopping precinct after deciding to do its own
    thing. It too had its handbrake firmly in the on position at the time.
    
    Maybe it's a generic Citroen problem ??
    
    Rich
    

	Never have this kind of problem in Holland :-)


	Gordon

    Never had this problem with either of the two I had, nor of the ones
    colleagues have got. 
    
    Richard

This brake "funny" happened to my new BX a few nights ago. I parked in the
office car-park in the evening (with fortunately very few other cars about)
and wandered into reception. When I looked out of the window about 10 mins later
my car was not where it had been parked.

I assumed that I hadn't put the handbrake on tight enough, but after reading 
the previous entries .......

Steve (who now puts the handbrake on HARD)

.431� (who now puts the handbrake on HARD)

     Steve,

     Why should you put your handbrake on HARD, especially as it is a new
     car? Surely, if there IS a genuine problem, you should get it looked
     at? Oui ou Non?

     I put my handbrake on just enough to prevent the car from rolling.

     Martin.

Don't they have some weird handbrake adjustment mechanism?  Something to do
with pressing the footbrake real hard?  Maybe these cases of failing handbrakes
are just because it isn't adjusted properly?

Scott

              <<< Note 37.433 by IOSG::MARSHALL "Harry Palmer" >>>
                       -< Funny things, French cars... >-

>Don't they have some weird handbrake adjustment mechanism?  Something to do
>with pressing the footbrake real hard?  

note 37.239

    The BX has disc brakes all-round. The handbrake works on the front
    brakes (reason see below), and is a self adjusting variety. Other than
    that it's no different from other handbrake-on-disk mechanisms, only
    the presure it's driven from is higher. 
    
    Richard
    <reason see below> follows
    
    The rear suspension is trailing arm and as the suspension rises and
    falls the distance between the front and rear wheels varies slightly.
    If the handbrake were on the rear wheels, and the front wheels were
    locked by the gearbox, then as the suspension sank nothing would have
    any 'give' so strain would be felt somewhere. 
    
    By leaving the rear wheels free to roll you eliminate this problem.
    Next time you see a BX rise/fall watch the rear wheel roll!.

    
    Well, the local dealer just got through with mine..... they fond
    nothing wrong with it, apart from the _rear_ brakes (nothing to do with
    handbrake, as already noted)  needed greasing.  I'm not convinced the
    rear brakes ever move....
    
    When I pointed out that a _lot_ of people had had the same experience,
    they were politely surprised and said they had _never_ heard of such a
    thing before.
    
    I'm not entirely convinced that the self-adjuster, does.
    
    Interesting to see what they say to colleague, who's taking his in
    Monday, with the same problem.......
    
    watch this space......  [ ]
    			     ^
    			no, _this_ space
    
    
    Ian
    (now parking in gear, so the next accident is hitting the wall...)

    How`s the dent Ian??

    I had the same problem a couple of times with my previous BX.
    
    I've just taken delivery of a new one and wonder if they've changed the
    mechanism.  Previously, if the h/b needed adjusting (lever came up a
    long way before biting) the statutory couple of to-the-floor footbrake
    applications (stationary!) restored it.  With the new car, although the
    lever comes up quite a long way before biting, the afore-mentioned
    method doesn't change anything - the h/b lever travel stays the same.
    Not to worry - the h/b seems to work ok. 

    re self adjuster in -.2(?)
    
    Even if it doesn't work it just means the lever comes up further.
    However, as the handbrake works on disks, maybe it requires to set HARD
    on to grip properly (as opposed to drum brakes which have an element of
    increasing grip if rolling occurs[leading shoes]) 
    
    I have noticed you can set it, release(or is it press? can't remember
    from my desk) the foot pedal, and then you can set it further. However,
    prior to this I have NEVER heared or experienced one going walkies
    without it's master.
    
    moral: set it hard on AND leave in gear.
    
    Richard

    This problem would occasionally happen on a Rover 2000 I owned. Upon
    investigation the handbrake operated a separate caliper on the disk.
    
    Eventually I decided that if you set the handbrake after a long run (or
    heavy braking, or hot weather), the disk would cool down after half an
    hour, and the "hard" setting of the handbrake was now insufficient to
    grip the smaller, cooled disk......
    
    JtheK

Got a call from a garage in Swindon this morning - can we deliver your new
shiny red 16V with aircon on Monday sir? Unfortunately the answer had to be no
as
	a/ I'm not in on Monday, and

	b/ The lease on the current 16V doesn't expire until Sept 30th

Ain't life a b...h!

Dick

    re .442
    
    You think thats a b***h - A few months ago I had a guy from Hertz call me 
    saying they had my Corrado outside and did I want to come and sign for
    it - I would have done except that they had also delivered me a R5 GTT
    a month earlier.
    
    Now thats what I call a B***H!!!
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

re: .442

Just think of the miles they'll put on it by the end of September letting every
Tom, Dick(!) and Harry have a test drive :-)

Colin (whose new vehicle had 600 miles on it).

    .442�	b/ The lease on the current 16V doesn't expire until Sept 30th
    
    As it is September now, I think that this one should not stop you... I
    heard from someine who had heard from someone that someone in car
    fleet said that unofficially you could take the new car in the same
    month as the old one expired....

    
    RE .442
    
    
    I heard the same thing as Chris. The lease on my Golf expires on the
    1st Nov and the delivery date for my Mazda is 15th October. Fleet said 
    that wasn't a problem.
    
    Go for it
    
    Andy

     rep -1
    
    Andy,
    
    You are getting a japanese car???? Must have been thinking of waitress
    when you ordered it.
    
    Ton_

Re the last few

I called Fleet - not a trivial task in itself - and they saw no reason why the 
new car could not be delivered even though the current lease doesn't expire 
until the end of the month.

It's being delivered next Wednesday.

Thanks guys.

Dick

    Now I've had the new car (TZD Turbo) for a month, I reckon the air-con 
    is costing me about 2mpg if I run it continuosly.
    
    So this means I'm down to 45 or 46 mpg, at �1.79/gallon.
    
    I can live with that!
    
    Peter

    re .447
    
    Ton_
    
    How are you my boy yesp my gleaming black Mazda 323f will be delivered
    some time in October. Hows your little Renault 5 ?
    
    ANDY

            <<< MARVIN::DISK$TOOLS:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CARS_UK.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -< CARS_UK conference >-
================================================================================
Note 1217.0                  Mine went walkies too!!                     1 reply
RDGENG::WILKINSON                                      1 line   7-SEP-1990 15:34
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    

    rep -2
    
    Andy,
    
    Now I know why hit Marcel with JD's cars when you were in Holland,
    you've got eye-problems, I haven't got a R5 but a, now don't laugh,
    Fiat Panda 1000CL IE. I bought it because my Opel Record caravan (you
    call it a Vauxhall Carlton) got too expensive. Awell I can always say
    I've got a european car :-)
    
    Ton_
    
    BTW I'm doing fine Andy, how about you?

My new 16V arrived this morning, and apart from the missing drivers handbook,
everything appears to be fine. But I haven't driven it home yet!!!!!

The weather is still warm enough to make the aircon useful at the moment, and it
seems to work pretty well. Not too sure about the reg no though, H672 WAM - does
DVLC know more about my driving technique than I thought they did????

All I've got to do now is fit the phone, mudflaps, and all the other bits that I
took off the old 16V last night.

BTW - does anyone know why Citroen chose to fit a non-standard 12V power socket
on the rear of the central console? Probably so that they could charge you �15
+ VAT for a special plug.

Time to Vrooooom


Dick

Gave the car a good going over last night, and apart from the missing drivers
handbook, the only thing I could find wrong with it was the stereo headphone
jacks on the rear of the centre console. Plugging headphones into the jacks
switches off the rear speakers, but nothing comes out of the headphones. Still,
this can wait to the first service to be fixed.

My wife obviously likes it, 'cos I've got the Westfield today whilst she plays
with the aircon and hopefully remembers what I told her about the new location
of reverse gear.

Dick

    OK Dick, try this:
    
    Put it in fifth, lightly move the gearstick slightly forward, towards
    the right, and back. You'll now find it in 'neutral', but won't move
    left!!! ( a problem I've reported with ALL BX's and 405's with the new
    box).
    
    To get back to normal, reverse the sequence.
    
    Richard (who found it doing 35mph, and trying to change down)

      <<< Note 37.454 by NEWOA::VANDIK::HENNEMAN "Westfield VAN Driver" >>>
                             -< Got it ! - update >-

>Gave the car a good going over last night, and apart from the missing drivers
>handbook, the only thing I could find wrong with it was the stereo headphone
>jacks on the rear of the centre console. Plugging headphones into the jacks
>switches off the rear speakers, 

How do you switch off speakers ?



Peb (Future TZD TD driver!)

    > How do you switch off speakers ?
    
    Presumably the rear speakers are wired through the n/c contacts on the
    jacks.  This is how most earphone sockets on portable radios etc., are
    wired.
    
    Jeff.

That's correct

Dick

    rep -2
    
    Hai Jeff,
    
    How's live, still on the Grolsch???
    
    Ton_
    
    PS Do you remember me?

    Natuurlijk.  Well, not really.  Haven't had a Grolsch in years :-(
    
    PS: Natuurlijk.  Kom je nog op bezoek?

    
    rep -1
    
    Jeff,
    
    In november ben ik in Londen en maart volgende jaar in Basingstoke
    dus misschien kunnen we wat afspreken. In Basingstoke gaan we
    voetballen met de lads van BA en aangezien we met de boot komen kan ik
    wel wat grolschjes voor je meenemen. Voor meer info zie BALZAC::
    FOOTBALL topic 699 of 698.
    
    Cheerio,
    
    Ton_ 

    Asl u in een engelse conference geschreven, kunt u ook in het englese
    taal geschreven alst-u-blieft.  :-)
    
    Richard (showing off !)

    Sure Richard but it was kinda personal :-) and i guessed nobody would
    be able to read or even understand exept me and Jeff but you seem to
    have found your way in dutch. Next time i'll have to use the Utrecht
    slang but then i will be the only one understanding it, agterleke
    dakhaas.
    
    
    Ton_

    Thank you, Mr. Moderator - there has been a lot of flak in another
    notes file about one-to-one "chat" notes, and I apologize!!
    
    Ton - you would be surprised at the number of Deccies outside NL who speak
    and/or read Dutch.  For the rest, Ton was basically saying that he
    plays football and drinks a lot :-).  He also drives a car, which makes
    it OK for this conference ...
    
    End of chat!
    Jeff.

    
    If have got a car yes, but it's not BX but my neighbour (SP??) has got
    one so can I stay.
    
    Ton_
    
    PS Let's go on with the real subject here ie BX

    RE: .462: WELL DONE Richard!
    Sometimes they need some steering...... in order to remain on the right 
    track.
    
    RE: .463: Ton, You're not correct; I have seen this and ready to xlate
    for those who are interested.
    
    I've a BX, so Ton it's o.k.
    Make a wave from the other side of the corridor.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Hans
    

Remember the correspondence about BX handbrakes, which came undone by 
themselves ?  (See a few notes back, just before the language lessons...)


Well, following visits by two of us (at least) the final pronouncment 
from the local Citroen dealer is .......
(May I have the envelope, please..?)


"It's your fault. You're putting the brake on too hard."


Presumably, he means that we're pulling to hard on the bit of string that 
joins the lever to the works, and stretching it.  But that sounds like a 
pretty poor excuse to me.

IanP

    Previous replies have adumbrated the adjustment by applying the
    footbrake until it seems to "give", and then pulling the handbrake
    lever to the point when you want it to bite. It is then "adjusted" to
    that point.
    
    At some later stage, you pull up outside the house you are visiting,
    and with your foot on the brake peer through the gloom to cjheck the
    house number. Having identified the number you want, you finally pull
    the hand brake on, select neutral, and release the footbrake, get out
    and socialise.
    
    Without realising it, you have just re-adjusted the handbrake to the
    last notch on the ratchet.
    
    Steve

    
    
    Re.409...Sorry to go back so far but I have just experienced the same 
             problems ie, new cylinder head.
    
             I drive an '89' DTR Turbo, this car has been the most reliable
             car I have had, not a problem since new, apart from the brake
             pad wear indicator not working(and finding out the hard way).
    
             During a trip abroad I noticed the water was low and
             consequently checked it daily, having to refill every other
             day. At no point did the car overheat, and not a flicker from
             the water indicator. 
    
             On arrival back in the UK I booked it in for a 38k service,
             and water leak? When driving to the garage the water indicator
             did flash a couple of times during the 2 mile journey (so it
             works!).
    
             Anyway I finaly recieved my car three weeks later,together
             with a new radiator, cylinder head, injectors(suffered heat
             dammage),water hoses and clutch cable.Boy was I glad Hertz
             were picking up the tab, price? didn't quite get a figure
             but a "few grand" was quoted.
    
             Reason? I was told was due to a blocked radiator.....
             I now have a paranoid retired father in law who religously 
             checks the water level of his pride and joy (19RD).
    
             Is this just a coincidence???
    
             Regards Kev.. 

    re .469;
    
    Gee, I thought diesels came "sealed for life" - I've never put
    any oil or water into my BX's, and I'm now onto my third, having done
    100,000+ miles in the previous two...
    
    Re .468; you've gotta press *really* hard to get the handbrake adjuster
    thingy to activate, so I reckon that's an unlikely scenario.
    
    Peter.
    

    RE .454
    
    Fixed the headphone jacks in the 16V last weekend.
    
    The problem was in the 5 way plug/socket that connects the headphone
    jack wiring into the main loom. Whoever made up the plug had inserted
    the pins into the wrong reptacles in the plug shell. Fortunately, it
    wasn't too difficult to remove said pins, but it took about 45 mins to
    sort out what the wiring was supposed to be doing.
    
    Has anyone else with a new BX with these sockets had the same problem,
    or was I just the unlucky one.
    
    Dick

    re .469
    
    	I have heard several times recently of Citroens and Peugeots having
    problems with (semi-)blocked radiators which, in the most severe cases,
    have caused head gaskets to go (as has happened to you and I both).
    Unfortunately, it would appear that this effect causes all manner of
    nasty problems to the Citroen cylinder head.
    
    	The man at Speen Garage in Newbury swore that this had not
    happened before but I can't believe I am the first! I would have been
    really miffed if I had owned the car (it was just out of the year full
    warranty) and been faced with the bill. I would expect Citroen to do
    something about it quickly....
    
    Colin

  <<< Note 37.471 by NEWOA::VANDIK::HENNEMAN "Reality? - not today thanks" >>>
                           -< It's all in the loom! >-

>    Has anyone else with a new BX with these sockets had the same problem,
>    or was I just the unlucky one.
    
no!  In my BX TZD TD with ABS (more TLA's) the sockets work correctly
(I tried them last night)

but..

Does anyone else same the same problem with the fuel indicator
that I do ?

I'am only on my 3rd tank of diesel but for each tank I've seen the
same behavior..

at an indicated 3/4 of a tank I've done X miles
at an indicated 1/2 of a tank I've done Y miles

so given that I'am doing the same trip each time.. with
(nearly) the same driving style I should be doing about
the same mpg per mile

so the total miles per tank should be (in the area of) 4 times the miles
at the 3/4 indication

or

so the total miles per tank should be (in the area of) 2 times the miles
at the 1/2 indication


but its not even close! if I work it out as above I should be
getting  4*250 = 1000 per tank! or 2*300=600 miles per tank
(figures only aproximate)

but at fill up time its only 550 miles per tank

Is anyone else fuel indicator this inaccurate ?

    
    Re:472
    
    My car was also taken to Speens of Newbury, There was no mention of
    them having seen the problem before.
    
    I first recieved my car back after only three days, I was very
    impressed. unfortunatly I couldn't drive it because the engine was 
    miss fireing badly. Speen use an independant diesel specialsts for
    injection work, and had to take it back to them three times before
    they got it right. No disrespect to Speens though, they were very
    helpful and apologetic.
    
    I was and am still shocked at the amount of dammage the engine
    suffered, especialy when I was not aware of any real problem.
    
    Kev 

    
    � miss fireing badly. Speen use an independant diesel specialsts for
    � injection work, and had to take it back to them three times before
    � they got it right. No disrespect to Speens though, they were very
    � helpful and apologetic.
    
    It's still their problem. Didn't they check the car out when it was 
    returned. You can bet that Speen took a profit on the cost of the
    work by the independent 'specialist' and for that you should have
    expected them to return the car to you in a drivable state.
    
    Perhaps having to pay for car servicing/repairs out of your own pocket
    hardens one's attitude to this kind of thing.
    
    Mark

The fuel gauge is not an accurate representation of the level of fuel in the
tank, just a rough guide.  It certainly isn't (in the vast majority of cars)
a linear scale.  You can't use it to work out MPG figures.  You just have to get
used to different scales on different cars, and use them to give you a rough
idea how soon you need to fill up again...

Scott

  <<< Note 37.476 by IOSG::MARSHALL "Why can't a woman be more like a car?" >>>
                           -< Fuel gauge not linear >-

>The fuel gauge is not an accurate representation of the level of fuel in the
>tank, just a rough guide



very rough  :-)

    
    Re.475
    
    Mark don't get me wrong they didn't get an easy ride, but I have a
    lease car for an easy life.....
    
    I do agree with you, however the leasing co's do seem to leave
    themselves wide open to exploitation...I spoke to Hertz regarding
    the amount of parts used and work done, basically they were not
    interested,this attitude will hit the paying customer sooner or later,
    through high prices and appathetic garages.
    
    I had a similar problem when I replaced the front tyres,the original
    MXL's were slipping badly at 24k. They were replaced with MXV's,after
    12k large chunks were falling away from the tread(I'm talking 3mm
    deep holes)on both tyres.I called Hertz and explained the tyres were
    faulty, when I mentioned only 12k miles travelled I expected a
    response, but all I got was fine, heres an order number!
    
    I questioned Motorway tyres they said they would get them checked
    for a manufacturing fault, but suggested I had been using them too
    hard,too fast!!!!  *^&**@#*s
    
    Kev

    RE 472:
    Since 1983 I have driven Peugeot 505 and BX estate.
    The first 505 (1983) suffered of a rusty radiator, where the wavy 
    parts tend to fall off, so reducing the cooling capacity. This
    happened after 1.5 years already.  (MG B's with rubber bumper
    have similar problems)
    My later 505 had a final solution for this: radiator was alloy made.
    1987 make.
    
    Cooling problems BX:
    One of our support engineers had several times cooling problems,
    because the cooling fan did not work. The cooling fan is
    capable to work in two speed variants. This is done by switching
    a serial resitor, when the fan is spinning at low speed.
    This resistor tends to burn out, so creating not cooling by fan at all.
    
    Second what I think is really bad in the BX: there is not temp gauge,
    but a light only. Having had serious problems in my 1978 VW Golf
    diesel, where this light went on with cold engine and did not work,
    when the heat came on, I think the best is to have a real working
    gauge, where you can see, the engine gets warmer.
    
    RE 473: My previous and current BX have the same rough indicator.
    	This device stands still at max for a long time, runs down to 
    	almost empty quit fast and than still the car is able to go for
    	100 miles or so. The French way.......
    
    
    Hans

    Re:-) a few back et al
    
    If any of you with BX's with 6 speaker stereos have tried to get hold
    of the power plug that goes in the 12v dc socket between the two
    headphone jacks, you will have found them unobtainable. Since I could
    really make use of this socket, this is a real pain. 
    
    Therefore I wrote to the sales manager of Citroen UK to find out why
    they'd used this kind of socket, and what they intended to do about
    making it useable in the UK. For what it's worth, I got a "thanks for
    your letter" letter from the SM today, informing me that he'd passed it
    on to the Replacement Parts Dept, whatever that is!
    
    Further updates will be posted here. Of course.....if anyone's managed
    to get hold of one of these plugs, then I'd love to know where.
    
    Regarding the debate of BX gauges; apart from the rev counter, most of
    them are of little use for accurate reading, including the speedo.
    
    
    Dick

    My BX runs for about 100 miles before it drops off the first thick bit
    of the full tank indicator, thereafter it is roughly 100 miles a
    segment for about 500 miles a tankful. It's OK when you get used to it!
    
    Colin

I expect Maplin will have a plug to fit.  Tell me what size it is and I'll find
out if they stock it, its price, etc.

Scott

I've already tried Maplin, and RS. Neither has anything that remotely fits.

Dick

Remove the socket from the dash, connect a "standard" socket to the wires and
mount it back in the dash...

Scott

    1, the socket isn't on the dash, it's on the back end of the centre
    tunnel.
    2. What's a standard socket?. Do you mean a cigarette lighter type?,
    wrong size I think. I agree, there are lots of ways round it.... but
    why don't the distributors carry the pucker article?. I got fed up of
    this with Citroen when my car was deliverded with one original (black
    plastic handle) key, and one cheap and cheerfull locally cut jobby
    (plain and nasty). I COULDN'T get an 'original' from Citroen. 
    
    Richard

I'd already looked at the possibility of replacing the socket with one of the
'cigar lighter' variety. This however is a non starter as there is not enough
space behind the maonting panel. However, you could re-design and build a new
centre console, move the console body mounting points accordingly, and modify
the wiring loom.....that would make enough space!

But, if Citroen provide a non standard 12v socket as a feature of the car, then
they b*&^%y well ought to provide the plug to match.

Let's see what the Replacement Parts Dept come up with.


Dick

No, I didn't mean a cigarette lighter socket.  I was thinking of the sockets
you get on "Walkmans" for connecting them to external power supplies.  They're
available in several different sizes, so you're spoilt for choice...

Scott

Aha. I missed your point.

The problem with those types of socket is the power they can handle. The largest
shouldn't really be pushed beyond 2-3A @ 12v dc, with the miniature Walkman type
being rated at 800mA max. The Citroen socket is rated at 10A and some of my
kit draws 5-7A.

I'd also need to make up a blanking plate to mount this much smaller socket in 
the large hole left by the old socket.

Dick

High current, not very bulky.  Should do the job fine...

Scott

    I wanted to fit a socket to a car a few years ago. I was looking for a
    robust socket capable of carrying more than a couple of amps. I found
    that the car parts shop in Caversham (near the Waitrose) had several
    types I had never seen anywhere else. Maybe they would have one to fit
    your socket. (The one I used had a socket that looked a bit like a
    small cigarette lighter socket, with a cover that would block the hole
    when not in use).
    
    Andrew
    

Sounds pretty much like the one the Citroen use in the BX. I'll give them a
try this weekend.

Thanks for the info

Dick

    six entries about replacing a BX DTR turbo moved to 327 (Turbo diesels)
    as they are of a more general nature and more relevant there.
    
    Richard

    Thanks boss, nice to see you're still looking after us!!!
    
    Colin

    Re several back......
    
    What on earth are you powering up that needs 10A, Dick? Or have you
    built the ultimate "Walkman"?
    
    Curious_of_Queens_House .......

Dear Curious

I run portable video kit and 12v battery chargers of the car supply. This lot 
can draw 5-7 amps easy. Sony recommend to keep the engine running!

Dick

    I used to be proud of the old footprints on the windscreen - but videos
    too ? Wow that really take the biscuit !
    
    
    Or should I say Oscar ?
    
    
    AmS

Got a reply from the Replacement Parts Dept. this morning. According to one
Paul R Marsden, Technical Analyst, the dc power plugs are available from "any
Citroen dealer (?)" at a cost of �2.60 + vat. The part no is ZC 9865 891U.

So I rang up Speen garage just now and ordered two of them. Time will tell
whether Paul R Marsden was telling the truth or not!

Dick

ps. heard the one about the BX 16V that was delivered with a punctured tyre.
This amazing feat was carried out by the delivery driver from Murray and 
Whittaker who couldn't reverse the car off the low loader. In his enthusiasm
to play with the power steering, he fouled the front offside wheel on the edge
of the steel ramp and tore a hole in tyre. Kevin was annoyed.

After explaining that this was the second time he'd done this in the three
weeks that he'd been working for the garage (the other was a V6 XM!), he then
had the cheek to ask Kevin to sign for the vehicle.

    
    Does anyone have an answer to this?
    
    I have been driving a BX (19TRS and, curently, a 19DTR) for three years
    and this has only just occured to me. "Roadcraft" recommends that you
    do a "static brake check" before driving off - makes sense - and a
    moving brake test once in motion. Is the static test valid in a BX?
    With a "normal" hydraulic system the brake peddle is a pump, so
    pressing it with a stopped engine and feeling the pressure build up is
    a valid test of the basic operation of the braking system and if the
    peddle went straight to the floor one would know not to drive off.
    However, the BX system, as I understand it is very different with an
    engine driven pump supplying pressure and the foot brake control is
    just a valve, so pressing this with the engine stopped is going to feel
    the same whether the system is working or broken making a static test
    invalid.
    
    Any ideas?
    
    Ian_who_has_already_waited_13_weeks_for_a_BX_TZD_Turbo.
    
    
    

    
    How about starting the engine, before doing your brake test? (still
    done before moving off).
    
    Bill.

I can now report that I am the proud owner of 2 dc accessory plugs of the 
correct type to fit the socket on the rear of the BX centre console. Speen 
Garage obtained them in 2 days.
However, Citroen don't know the price of their own parts, as the price was twice
that previously quoted. Not even the Government can match that rate of 
inflation.

Dick

    
    Bill,
    
    re .-1 & 2
    
    Still not a valid static test, me thinks, because the feel of the
    brakes will be the same if they are good or bad. In aeroplane speak
    this is called "artificial feel".
    I used to fix aeroplanes in the RAF and an aeroplane has a similar system
    to a BX i.e. a pressurised hydraulic system with the pressure  to the 
    brakes controlled by a foot operated valve (actually connected to the
    rudder pedals). The only way, I believe, to test the operation of the
    brakes on the BX is the same as is used on an aircraft and that is, after
    starting the engine and checking that the hydraulic pressure is normal
    (warning light out in the case of the BX) the vehicle (BX or aircraft)
    is made to start rolling and then, before sufficient speed is built up to
    cause any damage if the brakes do not work, they are immediately applied.
    If said vehicle stops, test complete. Then in case of a car, do a propper
    moving brake test - 30 mph and, after checking mirrors etc, apply
    brakes checking for normal brake operation or pulling to one side or
    the other, then, when down to 15MPH, pulling up sharply to test that the
    seat belts lock up. You may have noticed such a brake test as mentioned
    above when on an aircraft.
    
    Ian.
    
    P.S. When I do my RoSPA advanced test I want to impress the examiner by
    telling him all this!
    
    
    

Re a few back; I've got the same problem with my TZD Turbo.

The fuel tank is supposed to be 14.5 gallons (same as GTi), but my
warning light comes on after approx 450 miles, and I can't squeeze
more than 11 gallons or so into the tank. (The ordinary BX's have 11.5 gallon
tanks).

It was in for the 6,000 service a couple of days ago, and discussed this with
them. They can't drain  the tank, to see how much is left, and they
reckon fuel gauges either work or they don't; they can't re-calibrate
them. The only option left is for me to fill a spare can with a gallon,
and drive until it runs out.

Since I'm getting about 45 mpg, I should be able to do about 650 miles,
which is much betterthan 450 miles! I won't have an opportunity to try
this for a couple of weeks, and I'll post the results then.

However, at this stage I reckon the Turbo does have the 11.5 gallon tank,
and not the 14.5  one advertised!

Peter.

    
>>them. The only option left is for me to fill a spare can with a gallon,
>>and drive until it runs out.
    
    I wouldn't run out of diesel - I've been told that the only way to
    restart the car is to take it to a garage (something about bleeding the
    system).
    
    Karen
    
    

              <<< Note 37.503 by SYSTEM::BOOTHE "Karen Boothe" >>>
                          -< Don't empty a diesel ! >-

    
>    I wouldn't run out of diesel - I've been told that the only way to
>    restart the car is to take it to a garage (something about bleeding the
>    system).
    


in my last car (205 diesel) the handbook said that if you
ran out of fuel the system would need to be bleeded.. but
I did run out of fuel (only once!) and the car started ok
after that.. and the garage told me that there would be
no need to drain the system
    

I concurr with .504; it's not a problem if you run out of diesel - you
simply press a plunger on the fuel pump and it bleeds itself.

(As it's a mechanical fuel pump, you'd flatten the battery before it
primed itself if you left it for the engine to do it for you)

I know, 'cos I also ran out and had to get the very nice man from the AA
to bring me a gallon!

Peter.

<<< Note 37.505 by HEWIE::RUSSELL "Middle-aged Mutant Hero Turtle (UK option)" >>>

>I concurr with .504; it's not a problem if you run out of diesel - you
>simply press a plunger on the fuel pump and it bleeds itself.

>(As it's a mechanical fuel pump, you'd flatten the battery before it
>primed itself if you left it for the engine to do it for you)


.. sorry.. but all I had to do when I ran out of fuel was
walk 5 miles (  :-(  ).. put some fuel in and then fire
it up.. no messing with that large lump under the front
lid

    
    
    I ran out of diesel after doing only 20 miles with the red warning
    light on, even less amuseing was trying to manouver the coasting DTR
    Turbo without powered steering!
    
    I did use the fuel pump plunger before starting and had no problems,
    however a colleague ran out of diesel in a 19RD, he started the engine
    on the battery ok.....but could not get more than 8 gallons in the
    tank. Citroen found the fuel tank had partially imploded(think the tank
    has a double skin). Citroen Slough had seen this problem on numerous 
    occasions ("mechanic").
    
    Never realy noted the max amount of gallons my Turbo takes(more
    intrested in the �'s) but shall take note next full fill.
    
    Regards Kev..

<<< Note 37.502 by HEWIE::RUSSELL "Middle-aged Mutant Hero Turtle (UK option)" >>>


>The fuel tank is supposed to be 14.5 gallons (same as GTi), but my
>warning light comes on after approx 450 miles, and I can't squeeze
>more than 11 gallons or so into the tank. (The ordinary BX's have 11.5 gallon
>tanks).

I have on one ociosion only managed to get 55 liters (=12.1 gallon)
into the tank on my TZD TD

(but this was only a "once off".. normaly the best I can do
is 50 liters = 11.00 g)

>>> Citroen found the fuel tank had partially imploded(think the tank
>>>    has a double skin)

Imploded ???

They didn't happen to say what had caused it, did they ?

I'm reasonably sure the fuel pump isn't _that_ good !!!!


IanP

    The usual reason for tank implosion is a duff filler cap.
    Using the wrong one (no breather) or one with the breather clogged.
    I had this happen on a Cortina years ago. Can happen ! Most
    embarrassing running out of petrol with the indicator registering
    a quarter of a tank. Dangerous as well if the tank actually ruptures.
    
    Mike Day
    

    I am currently driving a Volvo 740 SE Automatic, which takes unleaded.
    The lease expires in February.  I have now placed an order for
    BX 19 TZD Auto.  I asked for the following options :
    Metallic
    Auto transmission
    ABS
    Air conditioning.
    
    The least cost is �4934/�1376
    
    I have been quoted a delivery date of 1st December.  Two months before
    the lease on the current car expires.  Car Fleet say that I can accept
    early delivery as a window of 2 months is allowed on either side of
    the expiry date.
    
    Now I have been told that Air Conditioning can not be fitted, and that
    they would reduce the cost by �18 per month.  The brochure says that
    Air conditioning is available on this model on special order.  Any way
    I have asked Car Fleet to order the car anyway, without
    airconditioning.
    I will be seeing a major saving in fuel costs.  My current Volvo gives
    20 mpg.
    
    The December delivery date has come as a pleasant surprise.  I am glad
    that I started the re-order process so early.  Reading about the BX
    in this conference, assures me that I will be happy with the new car.
    Although it will be quite a change from big Volvo to a small car.
    
    Girish

>>         <<< Note 37.511 by CHEFS::NAIK "Man with the Eastern Charm" >>>
>>                             -< I am getting a BX >-
    
>>    Now I have been told that Air Conditioning can not be fitted, and that
>>    they would reduce the cost by �18 per month.  The brochure says that
    
    �18 * 12 * 2.5 = �540 I thought air-co was more than this. Sounds like
    your being done to me.!
    
    Richard

    Residual value?

The lease cost of the air-con on my BX was about �250 a year, so I reckon
it's close enough. I think its about �850.

BTW - I reckon this must be a "marketing" decision if Citroen won't put
it in the TZD, as it is fitted to my TZD turbo, which has a lot
more plumbing fitted than the TZD! Unless it's the auto option that
makes a difference...

Peter.

    There are a lot of replies in this topic about MPG but I think that the
    main object is how much motoring actually costs (When did you last buy
    a gallon of fuel (or as litre, come to that)
    
    In the summer of 1987, I was working in Fareham, living in Plymouth,
    and travelling up on a Monday and back on a Friday. In those days, for
    various reasons, I was driving a Volvo 345 - hardly a boy racer - and
    my monthly petrol bill came to #140/#150.
    I have now come back to Fareham, still live in Plymouth but drive a BX
    DTR Turbo. The car is comfortable, is far, far quicker and the last
    months diesel bill was #98. So I'm saving #45 per month without even
    allowing for inflation.
    
    John Foulds - A Diesel Fan 
              

    What sort of economy do owners of the BX 19 TGD Estate get ?
    I do a 45 miles each way journey to work on A Roads and M4.
    
    Tim (who's thinking of getting one)

    My 19 RD (what they used to call it!) gave me never less than 43 MPG, I
    could have got more if my right foot had been less heavy!. A roads are
    the best, the roads that used to make most impression were slogging
    along at top speed on a motorway (whoops, honest officer I mean top
    legal speed don't I)
    
    If your more caring, expect considerably more (45-55 MPG are not
    unreasonable!)
    
    Richard
    

    I could never get more than 43 CONSISTENTLY out of my 19RD although
    there were the occasional tankfuls that gave me 45 or 46, as Richard
    says. It's definately the M-way stuff that does it in.... It's
    interesting that I get almost exactly the same overall consumption out
    of my DTR turbo estate although I generally drive it in much the same
    manner (except for the occasional blast and using the power for
    overtaking safely).
    
    Go for it!! I have just done an analysis on four diesel alternatives
    (Passat, Renault 21 Savanna, Montego and Peugeot 405 ; for the money I
    pay and the overall package I get I am sticking with the BX for the best
    overall value/performance/features.
    
    Colin

    OK, all you BX-ers.....
    
    Having run a BX 19 DTR for a few weeks last year, I'm a tentative BX
    convert, and am seriously thinking of replacing my lease car (when it
    expires) with a BX 19 GTi. What I'm doing is to create a shortlist
    of 'possible replacements', and then eliminate them one by one, till I
    have only one left!
    
    What I'd like to know is, has anyone successfully had their BX GTi (not
    16V) converted to run on unleaded fuel, and if so, does this result in
    excessive fuel consumption or performance loss? If not, the BX will
    stay on my shortlist....
    
    
    SD

All the current range of BX petrol engined cars will run on unleaded including
the 16V. However, since the 16V requires a minimum 98 RON octane fuel you can 
only use the "super unleaded" or ordinary 4 star.

Dick

    Re .520   BX 16V
    
�only use the "super unleaded" or ordinary 4 star.
    
    Does this mean the 16V doesn't have a cat ?
    What about other BX's ?

    I had my BX 19 GTi converted to unleaded immediately after delivery,
    only doing about 1/2 tankfull of driving on leaded.
    
    Conversion cost me nothing, but had to ask three garages if conversion
    was possible before I got a majority "yes".
    
    It's now 19 months and 38,000 miles older.
    
    Performance is acceptable to me, (most people tell me I drive/fly like a
    lunatic!).
    
    On a careful run down the motorway at about 60 - 70, trying to be
    economical I measured the consumption at 31point something (miles per
    gallon) a week ago. My 'normal' driving gives me 26 - 28 mpg.
    
    I'd recommend the car. (funnily enough I'm wondering what the TZD would
    be like to drive for my next car - could I live with only 90 hp?)
    
    Have fun choosing,
    Jay

�    (most people tell me I drive/fly like a lunatic)
    I get similar comments to that on various occasions.
    
        
�    On a careful run down the motorway at about 60 - 70, trying to be
�    economical I measured the consumption at 31point something (miles per
�    gallon) a week ago. My 'normal' driving gives me 26 - 28 mpg.
    
    
    Using leaded 4-star in my integrale, I get 25mpg in 'usual' driving.
    
    I went through a tankful last week (2 1/2 days actually) being gentle,
    avoiding full boost, changing up earlier etc. to try and see what I
    would get in 'economical' mode.  The result, 25.5 mpg !
    
    I am obviously incapable of driving economically, although in the
    past I have been able to lower the consumption to 20mpg on a tankful...
    
    J.R. (car performance acceptable, capable of improvement
          - same goes for the driver)

    My BX GTi was delivered converted to unleaded, and went satisfactorily
    (ie, like s**t off a shovel). I never had any issues with the running
    gear.
    
    It was just the rest of the car...
    
    Steve

I've been running my GTI on superunleaded for over a year now (28000 miles) 
having had it converted back from the normal unleaded setup. I was getting
about the same fuel consumption as you are (25-27 mpg). Now I get 34 on average
at motorway speeds going from Reading to Solent everyday - so I'd say run on
super since the consumption outweighs the additional cost, and better performance
too.

Nigel.

ps. only one niggle with the car, the rear wash wipe won't wipe sepatately 8^(

You can now get some BX's with cats; as far as I remember there is a TZi
(I think) that has the GTi engine, with TZS trim, and the cat as standard.
I think there it may also be an option on some other models now - 
check with a Citroen dealer.

Re a few back; The TZD Turbo gives very nearly the same performance as
the GTi, up to approx 90 mph, costs a little more (as it doesn't
have ABS as standard, but is much more economical - you pays your
money, and takes your choice). The turbo gives the diesel a thumping
134 lb/ft of torque, which is more that the 16V (which only gives
133!)

And of course, The diesel's don't need a cat anyway . . . 

Peter.

Can anyone advise on how to remove the oil filler cap on the 16v BX - without
breaking anything !

It seems to be connected to at least 2 other pipes, presumably something to 
do with anti-pollution devices etc..

I've tried twisting/pulling (not too hard), but no joy. 

Or is it that the driver is not even supposed to perform this task any more ?

    Don't know this one specifically, but the one on my visa looks like a
    plastic cap, but with two pipes coming out like a tee.
    
    After it's been in a few weeks it's as stiff as hell, but with
    judicious twisting and simultaneous pulling it finally pops out. It's
    held in by a rubber 'o' ring half way down the neck.
    
    Doesn't the handbook say anything?. or does it have a vague drawing of
    a vague engine bay, with a vague arrow pointing at a vague something?.
    
    i.e., I never thuoght much of the BX handbook :-).
    
    Richard

Yes - the oil filler cap on the 16v is just a push fit, with 2 O-rings providing
the seal. Having said that, the cap on my previous 16v was an absolute b@#$%^d
to remove - just like yours by the sound of it. The trouble is that the whole
thing is so fragile-looking that large amounts of force look as though it will 
smash the whole lot to pieces.

If you persevere, gently rocking and twisting the cap whilst holding the filler
neck with the other hand, eventually it *WILL* come off.

Fortunately, my new 16v doesn't suffer from this problem anymore. I thought that
they'd fixed it - obviously not!!!

Dick

Thanks for the info on the oil-filler cap.

I'll have another go this evening, secure in the knowledge that it WILL come
off eventually.

Quite right about the manual; pictures , arrows , but no information really.  

    I've never, ever had to put oil into either of my BXs - hence no
    problem with the oil filler caps!
    
    Colin (who puts his in for service when it needs more oil)

    Colin I don't want to put oil in. I just want to fiddle with it.

    It's gone awfully quiet in the BX note.......
    
    I took delivery of my BX19 TGD Estate last week and so far I am
    very pleased with it. My main motivation was economy so I have to
    be careful not to compare the BX dis-favourably with my previous
    Renault R25. My Kids always christen the Decmobile. They call this
    BX19 "Greaseball". This is not disparaging as anyone who has seen
    Starlight Express will know.
    
    Anyway, one feature which is obviously worse than the R25 is the
    radio quality. Apart from no "bass" at all, the kids in t'back can't
    hear anything. Does anyone know if the wiring loom for the rear
    speakers is pre-installed in the BX19? If it's not a major job I
    will invest in a couple of rear speakers. If I have to start hacking
    the car apart to install wiring, I'll buy them a walkman instead.
    
    Ian
    

    Buy them Walkmans, that way you won't get your eardrums insulted by
    "their" music........... all you'll get is the tympanic hash of the top
    5KHz of the sound that escapes from the earphones........
    
    Dick_who_has_four_kids_who_all_insist_on_listening_to_different_tapes_
    at_the_same_time.........

Re .534

Best way to find out if you've got wiring for the rear speakers is to look 
behind the trim panels on the 'C' pillars. This is where Citroen put the 
speakers on the 16V. Another clue might be found in the wiring at the rear 
of the centre console. Remove the small tray on the rear face of the console by
pulling it backwards and upwards. If the speaker wiring is in place, there will
be a five pole multi connector just inside the opening.


Dick

re .534;

on the estate th extra speakers are in the little shelves on the sides
at the back that the load cover/shelf rests on - have a look and see if
there are any spare wires.

I think you might be unlucky, as the radio pre-kit is a factory fit option.

Good luck!

Re BX's in general; I saw a couple of adverts last night on EuroSport
for the BX Turbo diesel and GTI 4x4, so maybe another campaign is starting
up.

Does anyone have a GTi 4x4? I'm considering getting one next time round,
so if you have any comments, please post them here.

I'm not due to replace until October, but you can't start day-dreaming
too soon...

Peter.

    The time has come to put new tyres on my BX GTI and I was wondering
    what other people have found to be good on this model. They're
    currently MXVs I think, anyone any better suggestions.
    
    Nigel.
    
    p.s. is 35,000 good or bad on a BX for MXVs?
    

re .538;

I reckon 35,000 is good for a GTi - I knew a guy with the 16V, and he went
through a new set every 10,000 or so at the front.

I usually manage about 50,000 or so on the deisel turbo on the front;
the back ones never wear out!

Peter.

    I took delivery of my new BX19 TZD yesterday.
    First impression brilliant.  
    Can anyone recommend the best garage in Reading for service?
    
    regards,
    
    Girish

    
    C'mon Girish - it's supposed to last more than 2 days before it needs a
    service.........
    
    Not Reading, but Wokingham Motors are Citroen main dealers.
    
    Colin

    The best garage in Reading for Citroen is in Newbury!! Speen Motors in
    Bath Road on the A4. I wouldn't touch the local lot with a barge pole.
    
    Colin

Re .-1 by Colin

> I wouldn't touch the local lot with a barge pole.

I use Ormsby Cars and haven't had any problems with them.  Have you had
a bad experience with them that you'd like to share?

Jon

    re. 541
    
    Thanks Colin....  The 1000 mile service should be soon.  I have
    already done 400 miles in 3 days.  

    I've got a problem with the clutch of my BX Gti,the symptoms being
    slipping when pulling away in first from standstill and when changing
    down. It's done nearly 40,000 now, nearly all motorway (120miles a
    day), so is this a case of a new clutch, if so does anyone have any
    comments about non Citroen place (eg the ones along Basingstoke road)
    fitting clutches?
    
    Nigel

    The handbrake lever on my BX 19 estate seems to become slack quite
    very soon after the service, thus increasing the distance one has to
    pull the brake lever to stop the car running backwards on a hill start, 
    or when parking on a hill.
    Has anyone else had the same problem ? Can it be fixed easily, as it's
    due for its 12000 service soon?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Tim

which I put in here quite some time ago.

You press *very* hard on the footbrake, and then pull the handbrake up to
the correct position. However, this doesn't seem to work on the new ones
too well. So I guess it's just make surethe garage adjust it at the service.

I presume they have changed the design sometime in late 89 or early 90.

Peter.

    Hi All,
    
    I've recently been given a BX 19 16V and was wondering what use the little 
    lever is that is located next to the hand brake. I know its great for 
    posing at traffic lights when it turns the car into a hovercraft. But I 
    guess it has some real purpose in life too. What position should it be in 
    for driving - I've left it in the middle since I was given the car but
    it tends to be really soggy round corners. If I push it forward so that
    the car lowers will it make the suspension stiffer and stop it rolling
    around so much - or is that just so you don't have to lift your shopping 
    so high to get it into the boot? 
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

    Well congratulations, you've discovered it's connected to the
    suspension, and is a good pose at traffic lights :-)
    
    First, there's no 'middle', there are four positions.
    fully forward	- No suspension, used for service, or picking up on
    			the towing hitch if your lazy, or for loading heavy 
    			items off the ground. NEVER DRIVE LIKE THIS (above
    			e.g 5MPH)
    
    on the corner 	- NORMAL
     (Thick white line)
    
    next notch		- Higher clearance, rough ground, you can drive on
    			this, but the car will be a bit bouncier
    
    Fully back		- Tiptoe, suspension on full limits, car as solid
    			as a rock and you feel every pebble on the road. 
    			Again  NEVER DRIVE LIKE THIS. Useful for replacing 
    			rear wheel, loading/unloading without bending over, 
    			clearing a DEEP ford (water type not sierra!).
    
    It does not change the firmness of the ride, it just offsets the height
    sensing lever, and the car rises till the height is 'sensed' as
    neutral.
    
    Richard

    Nostalgia, Richard?  Have you changed brands too, then?  It's odd, but
    I was driving in this morning and every other car on the M4 seemed to be
    a BX.
    
    Had my R*n*lt 21 for just a year now, and keep thinking of the old BX
    19 GTi and the extra finishing touches I'm missing (like an engine that
    would pull away up the slope northbound from the Robin Hood in Newbury -
    most embarassing these days when the car in front doesn't accelerate away
    smoothly.  Takes forever in the R*n*lt to recover lost momentum.)
    
    Jeff.

    Yes, I went to a Rover 416 GSi. In my case the change from regular
    diesel to 16valve injection was almost frightening. I miss the economy,
    but love the performance.
    
    My main reason for abandoning BX's was I didn't want another estate,
    and the BX hatch had too little headroom in the rear for adults. (my
    first BX was OK, but this is a combination of the sunroof and the new
    split seat squab being thicker)
    
    Richard

Ok all you BX owners, what's the headroom like in a BX ???? Can the sunroof be
deleted ?  I tried an XM on Saturday and was disappointed that my head was 
wedged against the roof (I'm 5'10").  Who do they make these cars for - midgets
?


Thanks,

Karen

    just read backwards.... no the headroom is a common complaint about the
    BX's, and NO I don't think you can 'delete' the sunroof, unless you
    order a very humble model.
    
    The cars are made for frenchmen, not known for being tall. I have a
    colleague who has a BX, he has no problem, yet he is over 6ft.  This is
    because sitting down he is the same height as me (I'm 5' 8" standing)
    his height is all in the legs.
    
    Richard

    Re 37.552
    
    I'm 6'1" and have no difficulty in my BX, though the drier's seat is as
    far back as it will go.
    
    The BX is available without a sunroof, though the catalogues didn't
    show it as an option.  Because of my height I wasn't too keen to have a
    sunroof remove an inch of head clearence, so I was delighted when PHH
    managed to find a car without a sunroof.
    
    The moral is that if you want all of the standard features then you
    should specify them when filling out the request for quote form.
    
    Greg.

    �The moral is that if you want all of the standard features then you
    �should specify them when filling out the request for quote form.
    
    Greg, should that read 'if you DON'T want...' ? Because you don't need
    to specify standard features on a quote.
    
    Also when you say they managed to find a car without a sunroof, was it
    a model that didn't have one as standard or was it a special with a
    'delete option' ?
    
    - Roy 
    
    PS Rover don't mention the sunroof 'delete option' either.

    Re 37.555;-
    
    "you don't need to specify standard features on a quote"
    
    Not true Roy !
    
    I ordered a car assuming it to have the standard features, yet the car
    that arrived didn't have one standard feature (the sunroof). 
    
    In my instance I was pleased as I got the car that I really wanted but
    hadn't ordered as I thought it was not available.  
    
    As cars exist that don't meet the standard specification my advice is 
    that you specify everything that you want, even if it is a standard 
    feature - that way the lease company can't get away with delivering 
    anything less than the car you want.
    
    Greg.

    Thats news to me.
    
    It would be quite rediculous to specify all the standard features on a
    car.
    
    The whole idea of a particular model (ie L GL GLS GLSXGTi) is that they
    has different level of equipment.
    
    I  would think you would be quite within your rights not to sign for a
    car on delivery if it did not have all the standard equipment. In fact
    the lease company wouldn't want you to, unless of course you specified
    a 'delete option' that had previously been agreed.
    
    It always made me smile whern looking at quotes in vtx where loads of
    standard features were listed as options. I thought that the reason was
    the person obviously hadn't bothered the check the latest brochure.
    
    - Roy 

>>                      <<< Note 37.556 by MALLET::MARTIN >>>
>>                                -< Correction >-

>>    Re 37.555;-
>>    "you don't need to specify standard features on a quote"
    
>>    Not true Roy !
    
>>    I ordered a car assuming it to have the standard features, yet the car
>>    that arrived didn't have one standard feature (the sunroof). 
    
    
    Can you be specific about what model you got?, As with other replies,
    I'd refuse to accept a car that didn't have ANYTHING listed in the
    brochure as standard!. (though I doubt I'd refuse it if it had more
    :-) )
    
    
    Richard

    There is also a difference with the sunroof in that it may not be a
    factory-fitted option ; ie the "manual" roof is fitted by a local
    carosserie during pre-delivery checks, not by Citroen. The electric
    roof may be a different matter.
    
    I was peeved when I ordered my latest car, TZD turbo estate, to find
    that, with the inclusion of the infra-red option, you cannot have a
    sunroof (electric or manual) on the car!!
    
    Colin

Citroen have never fitted the factory electric sunroof to the BX estate;
the shape of the roof prevents it sliding back.

I'm intrigued the garage couldn't fit a tilt/remove one though; I didn't
think the overhead console in the estate was very big.

Peter.

    Re 37.558
       
    The car in question is a BX19 TGD Estate, ordered March/April 1990.
    
    I'd been to dealers and got the brochures.  Nowhere did I find a
    reference to such a car without a sunroof, so I presume that the lease
    company got this one on a special deal.
    
    If I was buying then I would have not accepted the car, but I was
    leasing and I didn't want the sunroof anyway.
    
    Greg.

    Ah! that explains it.
    
    Correct me if I'm wrong but the TGD _ESTATE_ does not come with a
    sunroof as standard.
    
    - Roy

    re .561
    
    NONE of the estates have a sunroof, It DOES state in the brochure (I
    can bring it in and tell you if you like) This has been the case since
    the existance of the BX estate (late 1985).
    
    Also the estates are higher, not only where it kicks up at the rear,
    but also at the front. Compare an estate above the front windscreen and
    a hatch, you'll see what I mean.
    
    So it is not a non-spec, but a misunderstanding.
    
    Richard

    Re last few;-
    
    Ahah !  I feel happier now that the situation has been explained.
    
    Looks like I need to read all of the small print in the
    brochures next time.
    
    Greg.

    I just can't get over the fact that the panel on which the front doors
    are hinged is made from such thin, flexible metal.
    I oiled the hinges, but the creakes seem to be coming from the panel as
    it flexes!             
    
    No wonder I get such good fuel economy from the BX 19 TGD!
    
    Tim
    

    AAAAAAAAaaaaagggghhh !
    
    Currently driving/being driven in a BX hire car.
    
    Why would anyone part with any money to be the owner
    of one of these vehicles ???
    
    J.R.

    	I parted with money (well, lease money, anyway) to have a total of
    three of these things! I like 'em!
    
    	Mind you, I had a test drive of a ZX last evening and was *very*
    impressed at what a solid "little" car they had made it. No body
    squeaks or rattles, very little wind noise, nice solid steel (or
    double-skinned fibreglass) body panels, a solidly-mounted dash (!!),
    etc. Some nice features, too, such as the sliding rear seats with
    adjustable rear squabs. 
    
    	Beats an Escort into a cocked hat, methinks!
    
    Colin

�    	Beats an Escort into a cocked hat, methinks!
    
    I can certainly believe the ZX is a much better car than the Ford product,
    since I had the misfortune to drive a Ford Onion recently (also a hire
    car) and didn't find that a particularly enjoyable experience...
    
    J.R.

    ....but maybe not as good as the Rover 214/6 still...
    
    Tim

>>                       <<< Note 37.565 by DUCK::GERRYT >>>
>>                              -< CREAKING DOORS! >-

>>    I just can't get over the fact that the panel on which the front doors
>>    are hinged is made from such thin, flexible metal.
>>    I oiled the hinges, but the creakes seem to be coming from the panel as
>>    it flexes!             
    
    
    Have you tried lubricating the door stay pivot, and where it dissapears
    into the door?. It could be that that's making all the noise!.
    
    Richard

    Another couple of comments on BX's
    
    
    In the sun, they don't half get hot inside !
    
    The BX 14 doesn't have enough power to allow left foot braking
    to get the back out (well, not quite).
    
    In Belgium we see a lot of BX's badged up with 'TRD' suffix,
    is that meaningful ?  (sounds like Turd to me !)
    
    The radio is positioned to be as awkward as possible to use it.
    
    Not having central locking, it is extremely inconvenient that
    you cannot lock the passenger door using the inside button
    before closing it.  It means that the driver must get out last
    (or passenger unlocks back door before getting out, then locks
     front and rear doors from the inside and shuts the rear door).
    
    Finally, the highest setting for ride height is not enough to get grip
    at the front wheels when the gearbox is driven onto a concrete block !
    (No, I wasn't driving it - but I was laughing, lots)
    
    J.R.

    
>    In Belgium we see a lot of BX's badged up with 'TRD' suffix,

Isn't that the Turbo Diesil ?

    
    Yep, I think so. Known as a DTR here...not much difference really! :^)
    
    Mark

In the UK, the TRD was badged as a DTR; the explanation was Citroen didn't
want people calling it "Tardy" (as in slow....)

Now they use TG and TZ as model derivatives, the top range diesels are
now called TZD both in the UK and abroad.

It's only a turbo if the badge includes turbo.

So; in summary...

RS - mid range petrol, RD - mid range diesel. - now TGS / TGD
TRS = high range petrol, TRD/DTR = high range diesel - now TZS / TZD

Peter

   Has anyone  any  experience of the quality of the air
   conditioning unit factory-fitted to certain models in
   the BX range?

   How cold?
   How reliable?
   How good for rear seats?


   Tim...

    There is a note for BX topics. Note 37.
    
    In there you will find air conditioning (around 37.294).
    
    I believe that Air Conditioning can now be fitted in this country (from a
    factory kit) rather than being a factory fitted option. This means
    delivery can be from stock already in the country, rather than a
    special order from the factory (the Citro�n dealer who told me this
    said they would charge more than the list price for it though !).
    
    Andrew

but not very controllable.

I have it in my current BX, and used it to great effect both last summer
and this. I reckon it's a really good option, and has joined ABS and
central locking as "must haves".

It pumps out a lot of very cold air; the only problem is there is no
temperature/thermostat control, so you can't "dial" a temp and leave it.

You have to switch if off yourself if you get too cold.

My kids found it penetrated to the rear of the car quite effectively in
France a couple of weeks ago.

Re .578;

I'm not sure how easy it would be to dealer fit, but I've got a 
diesel turbo, and there is an awful lot of pipework under the bonnet....

Oh, and it really affects fuel consumption. It got as low as 40 mpg
when I was cruising at 90 mph with the a/c on for three hours last week!

(I reckon it costs about 2 or 3 mpg in normal conditions)

Peter.

    re .579
    
    If its too cold then you can turn the heater up ! This seems a silly
    way of doing things, but it is useful when you want to reduce the
    humidity (The A/C chills the air and dries it, then you heat it up to
    the temperature you want. This removes more moisture than just cooling
    it to the desired temperature. If humidity is not a problem then it is
    more efficient just to cool the air to the desired temperature).
    
    Has the installation changed in the last 4 years ? When I had A/C the
    control was a slide lever, which could be set in intermediate positions
    (the A/C lever moved about 4cm, whereas the recirculation switch only
    moved about 1.5 cm). I am considering getting a new BX, and would be
    rather dissapointed if the A/C control was inferior to the previous one.
    
    Andrew

re .580;

my BX has two extra switches, on the top of the centre console.

They are both sliders; the left hand one moves about 3 or 4 cm's, but only 
has an on-off function (at least as far as I can tell!), and the right hand 
one controls the recirculation.

You're right about the dehumidifying effect, but I feel a little guily
if I switch on the heater and thge a/c together, so I don't normally do it.
(mind you , it's a very effecient way to demist the windows!)

Peter.

    
    
    Hello!
    
    	I have a BX TZD Turbo - with a/conditioning. The controls
    for this option have not changed since its inseption. The description
    of the controls in the handbook, however are worse than useless! After
    much experimentation I am convinced that the controls work as follows:-
    
    The left hand (slider) control- Fully left - a/c OFF
    				   Sliding control to the right- a/c ON and
    				   it is a "thermostat" control i.e. the
    				   further to the right the cooler the
    				   output, (and the more the fuel consumption
    				   is effected). It is only necessary to
    				   slide the control a few millimetres to
    				   get some cooling (it is possible to hear
    				   the pump cutting in and out and feel the
    				   effect on the throttle - additional load.
    
    The right hand control- This is an on/off switch. It controls air
    			    circulation via a motor controlled flap valve.
    			    Try operating this control with the engine stopped
    			    - to hear the motor running, and/or raise the
    			    "bonnet" to watch it.
     
    			    Switch to the left - air comes from the outside
    			    of the car by "ram" effect caused by cars
    			    motion and/or by fan boost. This is the
    			    "normal" driving postion.
    			    Switch to the right - air is recirculated, that
    			    is, outside air is cut off and the only air
    			    coming out of the vent is that driven by the
    			    fan. This is for use if , no when, you want to
    			    cut out outside smells and polution.
    
    Note that I found that the system was much less efficient in the
    recirculation mode when driving at speeds above 50 mph. This is
    because, in this mode, there is no "ram" air entering the car and so
    limiting the throughput. Nor any "freash" air. Also, if left in recirc.
    mode and the a/c is OFF the car fuggs up very quickly. Using the a/c to
    dry the air and the heater to warm it is sometimes usefull.
    
    
    Apart from the comfort angle I found that I could drive for longer
    periods in high temperatures without feeling tired. On one occation I
    deliberately turned the a/c off to see the effect. Within a minute the
    rear seat passengers were complaining!! I hope this answers any
    questions.
    
    Hope for another hot summer,
    
    Ian.
    
    So to summ up - if you are too cold slid the left hand control to the
    left and visa-versa. To cut out smells slid the right hand control to
    the right, but for normal use leave it to the left. 

re .582;

It looks as if I need to do some experimenting.

With the changes in the lease scheme, I've now got this car for an extra 21
months, so it gives me plenty of time to play with it....

Peter.

    �an extra 21 months
    
    I thought the changes meant we have the car for an extra 6 months.

re .584;

when I leased my current car I was doing 40,000 miles a year, and so 
understood I would have it for 15 months.

Howver, I relocated last December, and my mileage has dropped considerably,
so I probably won't exceed the standard mileage limits.

Since I was doing a high mileage, I chose a relatively expensive, well
equipped economicial car (BX TZD Turbo, ABS, Air Con) knowing that when the
lease was up, I could change it for something much cheaper on the scheme.

I'm now left with a superb, economical, high speed cruiser for a 3.5 mile
daily commute, which I can't change until 21 months after the time I was
told I could change it.


 And I'm almost a grand a year out of pocket now.

So statements like "you only keep the car for an extra six months" are plain
wrong. No matter who makes them.

Peter

�                          -< THE option for the 90's >-
    
    Is 'ecologically sound' refrigerant used, in these 'green-minded' days ?
    
    
    Then again, the car looks like a fridge, so why not make it work like one !
    
    J.R.

Any suggestions for improving the success rate in using the supplied
"plip" infra-red remote control to lock/unlock my car?

The normal situation is... walk up to car, point the control
at the sensor (by the roof controls) and press button
no response
re-aim the control, press button
no response
re-aim the control, press button
no response
.. but finally I get in (would using the key be quicker?)

Now is there something wrong with my control? would removing
the transparent window on the corner of the unit help?



(and yes, I have replace the batteries)

    One of the remote control units I had with my Piranha alarm
    did not work as well as t'other.  When I queried this with
    the supplier, he said that I should open the unit and adjust
    the 'pot' inside it, whilst checking its operation.  He said
    it was probably a slightly incorrect frequency being generated.
    
    J.R.

I noticed this insensitivity, trying out a Citro�n
ZX Volcane (incidentally, a gorgeous car - never
thought I'd say that about a Citro�n!).

Never had the problem on my Renault, but on the
Citro�n, I gave up, and used the key!

Mark.

I/R bippies are often simply not man enough for the job, not generating
enough power to wake up the sensor unless you actually bang them on the window!

"Adjusting the frequency" sounds more like something you'd do for a *radio*
control unit, JR ?


Me, I disconnected mine and went back to using the boring, 
old-fashioned-but-reliable key, after I found out how easy it was to fool it, 
got fed up with it not working and found out how much it would cost to 
replace the zapper after somebody smashed it for me !

Ian

�"Adjusting the frequency" sounds more like something you'd do for a *radio*
�control unit, JR ?
    
    I had a Piranha unit, which had a 'plip' control. 
    This didn't need to be pointed at the vehicle to work.
    The sensor was, I think, mounted in the under-bonnet area, so
    I guess it was not infra-red.
    
    I did fiddle with the adjustment as instructed,
    but didn't really work out if this helped, since
    I still used the other unit (I adjusted the spare).
    
    J.R.

    
Re .589 

�                                           Citro�n
�ZX Volcane (incidentally, a gorgeous car - never
�thought I'd say that about a Citro�n!).

    Mark, I don't believe you're saying that about a Citro�n either!
    
    The ZX is not a Citro�n. It's a Peugeot in all but badge. Jacques
    Calvert has killed Citro�n. He may have retained the name, but the
    innovation, ingenuity, engineering and eccentricity that for so many 
    years were hallmarks of Citro�n have now been completely banished.
    
    For the average buyer who is happy in a world of mediocrity, Citro�ns
    regressive step provides just another choice in the eurobox brand war.

    But a company that provided us with such design classics as the
    2CV the DS and the SM deserves a better fate than simply becoming
    Peugeot face make-up.
    
    Richard.
    

�    But a company that provided us with such design classics as the
�    2CV the DS and the SM deserves a better fate than simply becoming
�    Peugeot face make-up.
    
    The same can be said of the Italian Marques, which are now all part
    of the Fiat empire.  But without these changes, they wouldn't survive.
    
    I wonder when we'll see a Ferrari based on the Tipo floorpan ?   ;-)
    
    
    And what of Jaguar, Aston Martin, Lotus ... ?
    
    At least the owning companies in these three cases appear to be
    concerned with maintaining the original company image.
    
    J.R.

    
    � I wonder when we'll see a Ferrari based on the Tipo floorpan ?   ;-)
    
    Or a Lancia based on a Dino or a 308? :^)
    
    Mark

    FYI,
    	There already is a Lancia based on the 328 engine but then I assume
    you already knew that :-)
    
    	Rik

    
    Indeed I did.
    
    Mark

Regardless of who it is owned by it seems a damn fine
car!

    re a few back
    
    The Lancia Thema 8.32 uses a de-tuned Ferrari 308 engine producing
    215BHP (de-tuned from 270BHP) & driving the front wheels :-(
    
    Grant

    Minor nit pick,
    
    	The Thema use the 328's 3.2l engine. The 308's 3.0l engine in it's
    non-QV form produced about 220 bhp - but Ferrari claimed 250bhp - you'd
    never catch Porsche doing that :-).
    
    As this is the BX note and were discussing Lancia's what do the pannel
    think of the new Audi Quatro Spyder (sp?) I like it - also the A??? W12
    supercar 500+bhp, 400+lbf in a car which weighs less than an NXS� - and
    it looks that part.
    
    �See I even mentioned Honda.

    � As this is the BX note and were discussing Lancia's what do the pannel
    � think of the new Audi Quatro Spyder (sp?) I like it - also the A??? W12
    � supercar 500+bhp, 400+lbf in a car which weighs less than an NXS� - and
    � it looks that part.
    �
    � �See I even mentioned Honda.
    
    Presumably you mean the Hodna NXS? :^)
    
    Mark

    I can't help it if I'm dislexic - but thats another conference.
    
    	Rik

    	To go back to the "original" note that sparked off this little
    arthole :-) (ie .587) I too think Citroen have the worst infra-red
    device going. In my humble opinion, it is the location of the sensor,
    buried deep inside the car on the roof, that is the main culprit.
    
    	The only real use it has is when you want to get into the tail (I
    have an estate - this may be different on a hatch) - previously you had
    to walk round to the door to unlock the tailgate, walk round to the
    back to unlatch it and then walk round to the door to lock it again!!
    
    	It also messed up my plan to have a sun-roof fitted to my estate -
    the coachbuilders couldn't do it because the sensor was in the place
    they wanted to fit the roof. I have heard since that it is possible to
    move the location somewhat to allow a roof to be fitted but it was too
    late by then.
    
    Colin

providing I keep the windows clean!

Seriously, it sometimes takes two or three pushes, for no apparant reason.
It's better if I angle it up slightly, pointing at the sensor.

The cover of my original sender broke, so I ordered a replacement (which
Hertz wouldn't pay for, so my boss did...) and the new one seems better
than the old one.

So, you could always get the garage to order you a new one up and try that.
Is it a lease car? still within warranty? If answer to either is yes,
then do it.

After all, we pay a lot of money for our leases... oops, sorry, wrong note.

Peter.

    The case of the sender is badly designed, and often breaks. Mine was
    broken when delivered. Apparently they cant supply the case as a spare
    part, only the whole unit. Of course the whole unit has to be coded to
    match your receiver so there is a long delay getting one.
    
    I believe they have now changed the design of the sender, and
    replacements are the new design, though I dont think this will improve
    things.
    
    There are a couple of things to think about when using the sender.
    
    1) Hold the sender low down, so the beam just clears the bottom of the
    window. Dont hold the sender near the top of the window. The receiver
    has a field of vision which does not include the top of the windows.
    
    2) The sender only sends a short pulse when the button is pressed, and
    then stops sending. Dont think you can hold the button in and wave the
    sender round like a torch - it stops sending, even though the red LED
    is still glowing !
    
    I'm thinking of getting an alarm with radio remote, mainly for the
    convenience of not having to point the sender in a particular
    direction. The plastic bonnet should mean that a radio remote would work
    well (with the receiver in the engine compartment).
    
    Andrew

    	Thanks for the tips, guys. I feel it's a shame that Citroen let
    themselves down (my opinion!) in the little things (such as this, the
    complete front wash/wipe assembly, no height adjustment on the driver's
    seat, the location of the radio and near-side mirror adjuster, the
    crummy "glove box", the location of the rear wash thingy on the roof of
    the estate, to name but several). Basically, I like the car very much
    and these items spoil it rather than make it untenable but for a
    serious motor car costing some �13K I wish they would do something
    about it (several of the points mentioned should be cleared up in the
    new BX but that's still 12/18 months away).
    
    Colin

    OK, so I took the bait and bought the wife a BX 14TGE.........
    
    Not bad, really, except that its an absolute bu**er to start,
    especially these cold mornings. It seems to be very sensitive to the
    choke and very prone to flooding. Also the battery seems to be a bit on
    the weak side..... but it's a new one or at worst only 2 yrs old. The
    car is a 'G' plate with 27,000 miles on the clock. 
    
    Goes well once there's life under the bonnet......;-)
    
    Anybody any comments? Or even suggestions of a positive nature?
    
    No, I don't want to replace the carburettor with fuel injection!

Re .606,

I know this reply is late but...

I have a 14TGE which is almost identical to yours in age and milage but
have no problems with starting in the cold.  I just pull the choke
fully out and it starts first or second time however cold it is.  

Starting after it has been standing for a couple of hours can be a
little tricky though as I have to judge the amount of choke just right
- too little or too much and it won't start.

Maybe you have a dodgy battery or something.  My experience would
suggest cold starting problems aren't generic on this model.

Jon

    The car got progressively worse during the ensuing week and finally
    gave up completely, much to the annoyance of SWMBO who was now going
    somewhat frantic. 
    
    I ran all the usual checks and concluded that it was a fuel starvation
    problem (first mistake) and that to try to get the thing to fire to get
    some decent "suck" going through the carb to try to dislodge any grit
    or whatever I'd have one more final try. So charge up battery over
    night, reposition my car next to the Citroen, install jump leads and
    start cranking over. Almighty bang from under the Citroen. Stop
    cranking. Find end to end split in exhaust box caused by humungeous
    backfire.
    
    Give in. Call Speen garage. "Can you tow me in? The car you sold me
    with a standard Citroen extended warranty has  decided to expire"
    "Sure, but since we don't have a tow truck, it'll cost you about �30"
    "Forget it" Persuade friend to tow me to said garage. Mechanics push
    car onto ramps and there is an 'orrible graunching noise from under
    the car and the fellows are laughing all the ways to the parts store as
    they watch the exhaust fall off and fall into the pit. They try to
    start car. Fail. "Sorry sir, but your car doesn't appear to want tio
    start" I bite my tongue and say "How strange, It started two weeks
    ago. Fix it and call me when it's done". A few hours later a phone
    call: "We fixed your car, Sir. That'll be �90" "Hand on a mo, it's got
    extended warranty" "We know sir, and we aren't charging you for the bit
    that's covered by the warranty" "So what the **** are you charging me
    for?" "We found a crack in the distributor cap which we replaced. That
    and the new leads we put in and the labour for it are covered. The new
    silencer isn't and you can't have your car back 'till we gets yer dosh"
    Call the contact number given on the warranty form. Explain situation.
    Say things like "If the bit that had failed hadn't failed the exhaust
    wouldn't have gone. Don't you accept the idea of consequential
    liability?" "Pi$$ off" they said...... so I paid up.
    
    I still quite like the car, though. 

    	That's the problem working on these "modern" thingies. It was all
    so much easier in the Moggie Minor days - you could get at everything
    easily, it was all dead crude and simple so that even I could
    understand it and you could get spare anything from breakers yards.
    
    	Nowadays it's all computer-controlled mumbo-jumbo, hydraulic
    whatsits, turbo dodahs, electronic thingamies and you don't know which
    way to turn even for a simple little problem like starting (and they
    don't give you a handle these days...)
    
    	I give my cars (incl wife's BX) to the garage and let them get on
    with it, despite the pretty awaful bills you get these days - yes,
    that's another thing..........
    
    Whinger Colin

    Talking to the salesman in Speen(Newbury) at the weekend he gave me a
    few 'futures'
    
    	New BX due out at the end of this year
    
    	It will have a turbo diesel, but it will be the 1905cc engine not
    	the present 1769cc.
    
    	This turbo will also go in the ZX. There's a ZX turbo diesel due
    	out in about 6 weeks time, but I wasn't sure if this would be the
    	1905, or whether this would be added later.
    
    Richard

    I currently own a BX 14E Leader. I am wondering if any of you BX
    owners/drivers have ever come across the following problem.
    
    Since we bought the car in March 1989, the gears have always been petty
    awful and the handback always ended up in your face when operated. On
    service visits (various Citroen garages, Speen once and the one in
    Wokingham once) I would mention the problems. It would come back
    adjusted (Clutch and handback) and all was well. This problem slowly
    returned on several ocassions until I started using a non-francised "one
    man and lockup" ex-Citroen mechanic. He diagnosed the pedal box spot
    welds coming adrift and the whole box was parting company with the
    bulkhead. 
    
    Solution: He seam welded the whole box and now the gear change and
    handbrake characteristics have been transformed.  
    
    I can recommend this persons services. He picks up the car and drops it
    of at no extra charge and his prices are reasonable (I think). An
    example is the welding of pedal box cost #40 + VAT. When a core plug
    failed it cost #20 + parts (.28p core plug and anti freeze + vat. He is
    based in Finchampstead Nr Eversley. Please mail me if anybody is
    interested.
    
    Dave 
    (Who realises I have now forgotten the compose key keystocks)
    

>>    man and lockup" ex-Citroen mechanic. He diagnosed the pedal box spot
>>    welds coming adrift and the whole box was parting company with the
>>    bulkhead. 
    
    Did you report this back to any Citroen dealer garages for comment ?
    
    I have heard of similar problems with fwd Cavaliers, in that the
    bulkhead cracks around the pedal box area.  This relates to the earlier
    models, not necessarily the new ones (too soon to know).
    
    This sort of problem sounds like a design fault to me, but do the
    dealers acknowledge this ?
    
    As for the BoX, is this corrected/improved on newer models ?
    (they do still sell those things, don't they ?)
    
    J.R.

    >This sort of problem sounds like a design fault to me, but do the
    >dealers acknowledge this ?
    
    >As for the BoX, is this corrected/improved on newer models ?
    >(they do still sell those things, don't they ?)
    
    I was told that Citroen admit to a design fault. It is a combination of
    using a thick steel frabrication for the pedal box and then welding it
    using three (3)! spot welds to a very thin bulkhead panel. The result
    is the bulkhead flexes everytime you press on the clutch or break.
     
    The problem still exists in newer models (mine is a 1988 on an 'E') 
    and will not be fixed as it affects only RHD models. This accounts
    for only 7% of BX production and hence Citroen feel its not worth the
    expense and a new model is due soon I think.
    
    My mechanic said he does about three a month. Anyone else had the
    problem?                       
    
    Dave

    When I had problems with the clutch on my BX back in 1988 this was one
    of the first things Speen checked, they must have forgotten since then ....
    
    I don't understand one thing (apart from your typing :-) )
    
>>    Since we bought the car in March 1989, the gears have always been petty
>>    awful and the handback always ended up in your face when operated. On
>>    service visits (various Citroen garages, Speen once and the one in
>>    Wokingham once) I would mention the problems. It would come back
>>    adjusted (Clutch and handback) and all was well. This problem slowly
    
    The handbrake is between the seats, there is no connection with the
    footbrake, except at the wheels. The problem with the pedal box may
    affect the footbrake and clutch, but the handbrake would have to be
    adjusted either at the lever, or at the brakes (front on the BX).
    
    Richard

    P.S., there's an entirely new BX due out end of 92/beginning 93.
    
    Fixed in future release??.
    
    Richard

    
    Re .614 I don't understand one thing (apart from your typing :-) )
    
    I must admit I always assumed there was a connection with clutch and
    handbrake. They always came back better after a service and after the
    pedal box had been welded.
                 
    Dave (Trying_not_to_look_too_embarrassed)

    
    Has anyone had any problems with wheel trims falling off of BX TZD
    Turbos or GTi's?
    I have lost three. What happens is that the plastic clips that connect the
    outer hub to the black plastic ring that fits in the wheel wears due to
    vibration eventually allowing the outer hub to come off. Hertz wont pay
    unless you can present both bits to the garage. I know of one other BX
    TZD Turbo to have suffered this problem. I am interested to find out if
    there are any more. I suggest you check your hubs and if they rattle
    about take your car in and get them replaced. Also if you have a Hertz
    car tell Barry Pollard on 081-847-6000.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Ian.
    
    

Ian,

I noticed a Calvalier owner had used a pair of nylon cable ties to 
secure the trim to each wheel.  I guess thay can be pulled tight to 
reduce pressure on the standard clip and can quickly be cut with wire 
cutters if the wheel need to be changed.

I have only seen such ties in jet black and clear/white.

I could pop a handful of long black ties in the internal mail, if you 
would like to try this.

Rob.

    Hi,	
    	Dont know whether anyone will see this... But on a 19RD what is
    over the top milage...  ie is 110,000 Okay on an 1998 F...
    
    Stu.
    

Cross-posted eh?

>>Note: 37.619                         
>>    Hi,
>>        Dont know whether anyone will see this... But on a 19RD what is
>>   over the top milage...  ie is 110,000 Okay on an 1998 F...
 
 
Wow, 1998 that young eh! :-)

Assuming it's a dislexic keyboard and you meant 1989, that's about 30K a 
year. Not too much really. It's a late model so it should have all the 
'fixed-in-future-release' mods.

Suppose it depends now on how it runs. You might expect some smoke on a cold 
start, and maybe on a boot-down takeoff, but in normal running it should be 
clean running. 

How quickly does it rise to final position on startup, jack up to full 
height, engine running the float on top of the hydraulic chamber (driver 
side wing front) should be above the lower red mark.

How smooth is the clutch, and is there any graunching of synchro on fast 
changes?. 

That's all I can think of for now.

Richard

    Richard,
    	
    	Thanks for the info.. Is the Bodywork Fiberglass compound baised,
    or like a normal car Tin/metal... What sort of Radio is there or shall
    we just forget that point....
    
    	Final question, Fuel ecom. What could we expect with 110k clocked..
    
    Cheers,
    
    Stu.

-.1

I think that the BX has a normal steel body, but that certain panels - such as
the bonnet - are made with a Kevlar like material?

Anyone confirm this?

Steve

�I think that the BX has a normal steel body, but that certain panels - such as
�the bonnet - are made with a Kevlar like material?

      When the BX first came out, I saw a demonstration of the toughness of
      the bonnet at the Earls Court Motorfair. Citroen had an apparatus that
      would drop a solid steel ball on the bonnet every few seconds from a
      height of about 3 feet, for the entire duration of the show - without
      either denting the panel or damaging the paint.

      The material felt like plastic, but I don't know exactly what it was,
      or whether the current production models use it.

      Ian.

    
    I think it's straight forward plastic. Kevlar is much too expensive and
    complex to work for use in a mass production vehicle like the BX, as it
    is actually a woven fibre.
    
    Mark

    I have a '87 BX diesel and it has the plastic panels. The bonnet is
    plastic, the between the bonnet and screen, the tailgate and the 
    panels between the back passenger doors and the tailgate also.
    I get about 43 mpg general driving and have got 105k miles clocked.
    I have no problems with it but find the regular oil/filterr changes a
    bit of a nuisance.(2.5k oil and 5k oil and filter).
    Only gripe I have is the plasticky feel of the interior, the interior
    lights are delicate, the sun visors creep down infuratingly and the 
    dipper switch has been replaced three times, keeps overheating and 
    melting, pity about the finish, I like the car.
    

    Most of the previous are correct, some (but not all) the bonnets were
    plastic (my first BX was metal). The tailgate is also plastic. But the
    majority of the body is metal.
    
    From feb 88 a radio/cassette was fitted standard, normally digital,
    display but not necessarilly auto-reversing, choice was up to dealer,
    normally phillips or blaupunkt. Front door speakers standard.
    
    Don't know if diesel economy suffers with age, I used to get 43+ really
    wellying it. Treated more gently others report up to 50+ mpg.
    
    
    re .625:
    >>  I have no problems with it but find the regular oil/filterr changes
    >>	a bit of a nuisance.(2.5k oil and 5k oil and filter).
    
    Eh?. The service intervals on both my '85 and '88 19RD's were 5k oil
    and 10k oil & filter. Later (around '89) they made it 6 & 12
    respectively.
    
    Richard

At the moment, I've got an Orion 1.6i Ghia (I am allowed to mention Fords here
aren't I? 8-] ), but due to the fact that I'm doing at least 400 miles per week,
I thought that diesel was the way to go! I like a car that shifts a bit, so the
BX Turbo diesel looked perfect.

Having just driven a BX TZD Turbo for the weekend (thanx Pete), I was very
impressed. Nice inside (complete with air-conditioning), and it's perfect for
motorway cruising at the wrong side of 70!

I've got a few questions for you BX owners out there.

1) Why is the radio is such a b****y stupid position?!?!

2) The fuel gauge seems a bit strange. Is it a linear readout? The gaps between
4/4 and 1/2 are a lot bigger than between 1/2 and R ( I think it's an 'R'). 
		 _
		| | R	   1/2		4/4
		| | |	|   |	  |	 |
		    ----------------------

Does the gap between 1/2 and R really represent 1/2 a tankful of fuel, or is
this the gap between the 1/2 and the end of the bit with the red light in it?

How much fuel does the red-light section mean? Knowing this car, it's probably
something like 'Caution, you only have 300 miles of fuel left!

The fuel gauge needle seems to wander a lot when it's in the last 1/4 or 1/3
of a tank. On the way home last night, it went anywhere from 1/3 to empty when 
cornering, or braking.

3) The adjustable suspension is 'interesting', and people don't seem to know
whether it's a car or a hovercraft! What I want to know is what setting do you
leave the car in when parked, and why? I've seen them left on the lowest
(scraping the floor) setting, and also on the normal ride height. Which is best?

4) Can you really not leave the rear windscreen wiper on all the while? The one 
I was driving would only wipe the back screen if you kept the buton pressed down.
Is this the way it should work?

5) The speedo needle shakes a lot around 30 to 50. Anyone elses do this? 

Almost 500 miles of not too careful driving saw the fuel consumption dip to
40 mpg. With more careful driving, I would expect that to be nearer 50, so with
the price of petrol seemingly going through the roof, it diesel for me!

Apart from some minor blemishes, it's the perfect car for me, and I'm just
about to put a couple of quotes in now. Air-conditioning or not, that is the
question?!?!

Steve.

>>>I've got a few questions for you BX owners out there.

>>>1) Why is the radio is such a b****y stupid position?!?!


It's French.... :-)
(This was the one big complaint I had about mine....)

>>>2) The fuel gauge seems a bit strange. Is it a linear readout? 

No.  It's an odd-shaped tank, so the bottom "half" disappears a lot quicker than 
the top.

>>>How much fuel does the red-light section mean? Knowing this car, it's probably
>>>something like 'Caution, you only have 300 miles of fuel left!

Depends how you drive, but it's actually only about a gallon, so you're down to 
your last 40-50 miles or so....

>>>The fuel gauge needle seems to wander a lot when it's in the last 1/4 or 1/3
>>>of a tank. On the way home last night, it went anywhere from 1/3 to empty when 
>>>cornering, or braking.

Funny-shaped tank (If you stop suddenly and switch off, you can also hear it 
going "slop, gurgle", so I suspect it isn't well baffled, either.)

>>>3) The adjustable suspension is 'interesting', and people don't seem to know
>>>whether it's a car or a hovercraft! What I want to know is what setting do you
>>>leave the car in when parked, and why? I've seen them left on the lowest
>>>(scraping the floor) setting, and also on the normal ride height. Which is best?

Once you get over the irresistible urge to play with it, you leave it in 
"normal" most of the time.  The only use for the "ground-scraper" setting that I 
ever found was making it easy to wash the roof.....;-)
Do watch out for parking close to high kerbs, leaping out and dashing away before 
the car has "sunk", and getting back to find you can't get the door open!

>>>4) Can you really not leave the rear windscreen wiper on all the while? The one 
>>>I was driving would only wipe the back screen if you kept the buton pressed down.
>>>Is this the way it should work?

This is the way it *does* work.  Whether it *should*, is another issue ....


>>>5) The speedo needle shakes a lot around 30 to 50. Anyone elses do this? 


yup.  Had to have mine fixed twice.


>>>Apart from some minor blemishes, it's the perfect car for me, and I'm just
>>>about to put a couple of quotes in now. Air-conditioning or not, that is the
>>>question?!?!

If the weather's going to continue to warm up, it's going to be a must !
I shouldn't be surprised to see a/c becoming a standard item on a lot of cars
soon.   Citroen's sister, Peugeot, just announced it on a number of the 405's,
so we may well see Citroen do the same.

Watch out, also, for the self-unadjusting handbrake  (It tends to let go when 
the discs cool down) and the fact that the handbrake works on the front wheels.
Never, ever, attempt a handbrake turn in a BX !   Unless, of course, you're
going backwards......


Ian
(I'd still have another one, though)

>>>>>4) Can you really not leave the rear windscreen wiper on all the while? The one 
>>>>>>I was driving would only wipe the back screen if you kept the buton pressed down.
>>>>>>Is this the way it should work?

>>This is the way it *does* work.  Whether it *should*, is another issue ....

    They originally had a latch-on-for-intermittent switch, but I think
    they cost-cut with a cheaper switch, removing the relay and less
    wires!.
    
    I've always thought this hold in to wash was stupid.
    

>>>>>>5) The speedo needle shakes a lot around 30 to 50. Anyone elses do this? 


>>yup.  Had to have mine fixed twice.

    Mine used to untill just before the lease expired, and one day the
    speedo cable broke. They had to replace the whole cable and this
    TOTALLY cured it!. So much for we've changed the cable sir!. 
    
    The problem is the cable comes off the gearbox just in front of where
    the french driver would be. In LHD it enters the car straight and has a
    relatively easy path to the speedo. In RHD form it does a sharp
    right-angle along the bulkhead, then anoher sharp right-angle to turn
    into the bulkhead.
    
    The later models (90?) had the cable routed to go straight into the car
    (a al LHD) then turn inside the cabin, giving the opportunity for an
    easier bend. This is suppose to have helped them.
    
    
    Steve, Note that the turbo's are presently 1.7 (1769cc) but
    in August/sept they are going to 1.9 (1905cc) these changes usually
    occur just after the french August holiday, so if you can wait till
    september you'll get a more powerfull engine.
    
    Note the peugot's (certainly the 405) are also getting this 1.9 turbo.
    
    
    Richard
    
    

	I am on my second BX GTI and I just love them. The radio is in a very
awkward place and there is nowhere to rest a cup of coffee but otherwise....

	The suspension really is interesting. I always leave mine in the
standard position when parked unless I am sitting in the car waiting for 10
or 15 minutes, when I will let it down to the bump stops. This is because
the car has a tendency to sink slowly and various bits of the mechanism
creak and groan rather annoyingly. When driving through floods, or over
farm tracks I pump the suspension up to the next notch and if I go through
a car wash I pump the suspension right up so that the wheel wash brushes
can do a better job.

	The funny thing with the suspension is that it continues to work
somewhat even with the engine switched off. When I am filling the tank with
petrol the BX, like all cars, tends to sink with the added weight of the 
added petrol. But, when the tank is nearly full, the suspension will suddenly
pump itself up to compensate. When the car is left for long periods it will
tend to sink and will go right down if you leave it for a couple of days.
But, if left for a few hours it will tend to sink at the rear making the car
look quite ungainly. But if you load the boot with bricks or paving slabs at
the local DIY you really get to appreciate the BX!

    
    I have a 1990 BX19TGD with 39,000 on the clock I find the performance
    of the 19 diesel(non-turbo) quite acceptable under most circumstances
    although it can be a bit lacking in certain over_taking conditions. my
    car returns 50 mpg with no real economy effort. and burns hardly any
    oil between services (6,000 miles). interestingly though it did burn an
    awful lot during running in up to about 10,000 miles(anybody else
    noticed this?).
    I agree with all the other comments Ive read i.e. non-linear fuel
    guage,radio awkward,nowhere to put coffee.
    
    I think the suspension and brakes are excellent,in fact the brakes can
    be so sharp that it is very easy to lock all four wheels in panic mode
    and I would like anti-lock.
    
    The points I would like to add are:-
         restricted headroom in rear seats for people 6' plus
    
         the hinges/retainers for the parcel shelf fell off mine(pop
         riveted back successfully)
    
         plastic sidepanel trim in boot seems to come adrift at the
         slightest touch
    
    However I consider these minor agrevations rather than major problems
    and my overall rating of the car is excellent, it is also very good
    value on the lease scheme and very well equipped. It also has a very
    good boot size which is very useful because of its squareness ie. flat
    bottom and sides and relatively upright rear seat.
    
      My car has never had any work done apart from normal service items
    and has never let me down. My previous two cars were Fords and one had
    had three total breakdowns and a new gearbox by this mileage the other
    had an annoying and dangerous intermittent misfire problem that my
    local garage took more than a few attempts to fix(turned into a real
    saga)
    
    In summary I would definitely recomend the bx diesel, and would
    definitely go for another myself without hesitating.
    In my opinion CITROEN sets the standard and other manufacturers would
    have to convince me they could match it for
    comfort,reliability,economy-for-performance,and practicality.
    
    ps. my stereo is lousy I think its the speakers let it down(optional
    blaupunkt melborne)
    
    
    Richard Young(welwyn gdn city office, living in essex) 

    The secret reason why the radio is in such an awefull place:
    
    The original BX's had the ventilation fan built into the heater unit.
    With quite a large blade size this resulted in quite a large box which
    sits behind the middle of the dash. 
    
    I don't know if they had reliability problems, but the one went on my
    BX and it was a day's job to replace (complete dash out). Consequently
    in later models this fan was removed and they put it where the extra
    air-conditioning fans would be, under the bonnet in front of the
    windscreen (I believe if you have airco it has two, normally however
    there's only 1). 
    
    When they redesigned the dash they COULD have redesigned the heater box
    to make it smaller, but I guess they didn't bother to spend on
    something that wasn't visible.
    
    
    Re the suspension. I agree that there's no need to ever move the lever
    at all. It is quite happy to stay in the postion with the thick mark.
    
    However, low is usefull for loading, and cleaning the roof, high is
    usefull for unloading, cleaning the wheels, and looking past traffic
    :-).
    
    Richard

    
    	As an enthusiastic Deisel BX'er, being on my third (19DTR,
    DTR Turbo and currently TZD Turbo), I'll enter some of my experiences.
    
    	On the BX 19DTR, I did about 55,000 miles and the only problem was
    the high pressure hydraulic pipe between the pump and the hydraulic
    reservoir split.  The first I knew was when the "fluid low" light came
    on as I went round a bend.  I drove straight to West Heath Garage at
    Cove, Farnborough (Hants) who had me back on the road within an hour! 
    I normally get my BX's serviced there.
    
    	On the BX DTR Turbo, I did about 55,000 mile again (both times in
    the 2 years of the lease) and had one problem where the front
    suspension would only assume the fully up or fully down position. 
    Speen Garage failed to find the problem on 2 or 3 visits, but West
    Heath Garage traced it to dirt in the front height sensor.  No other
    troubles except the usual details of Brake Pad wear warning coming on
    (correctly!) and wobbly speedo reading (cable replaced) and that sort
    of thing.  We bought a Timeshare near Marbella whilst running this car
    and did 2 trips out there in the June each year at about 2,500 and
    2,800 miles each trip.  On the way back each time, the temperature in
    central Spain was 38 degrees Centigrade (!!!) in Madrid at about 17:00
    on the Saturday and we resolved that the next car WOULD HAVE
    AIRCONDITIONING!!!
    
    	The TZD Turbo came in August 1990 which has only done 28,000 miles
    so far (I moved from Field Service a couple of months before to DMO),
    but the Head Gasket failed at about 5,000 miles and being at Qeens
    House, took it to Ormsby Garage.  I think that they knew that they were
    soon to loose their Citroen Franchise and were in the hands of the
    Receiver anyway, 'cos their service was less than fulsome.  I now go
    back to West Heath Garage where I have for six years now always
    received excellent service.  On our trip to Marbella last year (we've
    swapped our timeshare for one in America this year in the Autumn), the
    airconditioning was brilliant, but could barely cope with the heat on
    the way back which this time was no less than 43 degrees Centigrade at
    17:00 in Madrid!!!!!!!!  The heat coming in through the glass was
    searing!!!!  We could see our breath just about and yet we were soaked
    in perspiration at the same time!  When I first received this car, it
    was very humid that August and coming out of airconditioned Queens
    House into an airconditioned car was brilliant!  All my windows closed,
    could see every one else with theirs open, gasping for breath -
    absolute luxury really.  Since then, I've found airconditioning to be
    invaluable many times when it is difficult to get the windows to
    demist, even using it with the heater on occassions in the winter!
    
    	I heard from a mechanic at West Heath Garage on my last visit (yes,
    I do heartily recommend them if that is your area) that one should run
    the airconditioning at least once a month year round to re-pressurise
    the system for optimum reliability.
    
    	Fuel consumption?  I found that my overall consumption usually
    works out to be the same as the official 75 MPH figure and certainly
    this was true on the first 2 cars.  My driving style has changed a lot
    with this latest car (Don't get done for low flying so often - "having
    trouble taking off are we sir?) and, of course, the airconditioning
    gets used quite often, especially this last month, but I'm trying to be
    much more economical and nearly achieve 50 MPG some tanks full and once
    exceeded that.  I never did achieve 50 MPG on the first 2 cars although
    I did occasionally try.
    
    	Head room?  Well, I'm 6'0" but have a long body and usually have
    headroom problems - Ford Onion 1.6i Ghia, Renault 18 Auto etc. being
    previous cars, but in the BX's, as long as I have the Sunroof Blind back,
    my hair just touches the glass roof.  I find the BX to be a competent and
    comfortable car.  The TZD Turbo having a superb combination of
    performance and economy.  The ability to raise the suspension up to the
    wheel change position is VERY usefull for my wife who has an Arthritic
    hip, as it makes entering and exiting the car quite easy for her.  I
    look forward to this new BX Turbo deisel that some have mentioned.
    
    	Hope that wasn't boring - my next car will be a BX deisel turbo
    WITH airconditioning and maybe ABS too since I modified my front by
    using the car in front to stop when he "failed to shoot the lights" at
    the top of the M4 slip road (A33 junction) one wet morning a few months
    ago.
    				Malcolm.

    >hip, as it makes entering and exiting the car quite easy for her.  I
    >look forward to this new BX Turbo deisel that some have mentioned.
    
    >	Hope that wasn't boring - my next car will be a BX deisel turbo
    
    Hi Malcolm
    
    Don't get too excited because the old BX with not be getting the 19
    turbo diesel engine that is found in the ZX. It will certainly be in
    the next BX replacement mid '93.
    
    A new 17TZD comes with ALB as standard but you can not specify air
    con any more. It would have to be an after market option from Alpine or
    some such and at a cost of �1750. I know I have just asked. Mind you it
    might be a better model than Citroen fitted in the past. 
    
    I had a Pug 505 family estate in the middle east (Oman) and temps often
    hit 45-49c (it never offically reached 50c :-) because we could all
    leave work and go home) and I found the air con very effective, it
    never failed to cope. It failed one day though dumping out all the
    freon from the compressor. The cabin temp shot up and the next visit
    was the garage.
    
    Dave

    
    	Wonder if any of you more knowledgeable people can help me out
    here. 
    	I had a couple of instances of one of the wee bleed (?) pipes at
    the front of the car popping out and leaking lovely green hydraulic
    fluid all over a)my driveway and b)work's car park. After securing this
    (fitting a jubilee clip) I realised that at times, the front of the car
    wasn't being raised by the suspension. 
    	I sent the car to the garage and they gleefully informed me that
    the suspension controller (?) was duffed andneede replaced. They did
    this and adjusted the new one. Now the suspension comes up fine but I
    have a small problem. If I leave the car for a small time when warm
    (say 5 mins) and then start the car, the suspension begins to rise
    almost immediately. The revs haven't settled at this time and the
    engine cuts out. Is there any way of adjusting the amount of time
    between ignition and the suspension starting?
    
    	Yours in hope,
                     John A.
    

    re .636
    
    I doubt it. The suspension will start rising as soon as the pressure in
    the hydraulic system gets high enough. The hydraulic pump is
    mechanical, driven by the engine. You could try putting your foot on
    the brake - there seems to be some valve which gives the brake system
    priority over the suspension. Or you could try completely lowering the
    suspension before starting the engine.
    
    May be your engine needs adjusting, so that it can cope with the load
    imposed by the hydraulic pump.
    
    Andrew

    I agree, it's more likely the engine idle needs fixing.
    
    Richard

This month's CAR magazine (with the Jag XJ220 on the cover) has photos of the
new BX, due for announcement at Geneva next spring, and due for sale in
the UK next summer.

It's bigger by 5 inches than the current model, and will start with bigger
engines than the current one, as the ZX takes care of the lower segment.

It looks like an XM at the front; the rear looks like saloon, although it
is a hatch. It will have the same suspension as today, with the possibility
of semi-active ride.

Inside looks much better, with the radio at the *top* of the centre console!

My car is due for replacement on AUgust 3rd next year....

Peter.

I had my BX serviced last Friday, and picked up the current brochures and
price list when I picked it up.

The BX range has been reduced dramatically, and shows all the signs of starting
to run down, ready for replacement.

There are no BX 14's any more, and only about three or four petrol models
now. The 4WD models have gone. The options list is shorter (air con has
disappeared completely).

I only looked at it over the weekend, so I didn't ask whether it's available
to special order even.

I guess there will be more 'special editions' in the next few months.

Peter.

    
    The black plastic "windows" just behind the rear side windows on my BX
    are badly scratched... Looks like the previous owner has tried to clean
    with steel wool or worse. Any recommendations on how to get them into a
    somewhat better shape?
    
    Thanks,
    
    -maarten.
    

    Well re last of the plastic windows on BX models, I dont think any
    cleaners will help.
    
    If the windows are crazed or the plastic looks naff this is the result
    of an aging process in which the UV in the sun breaks down the plastic.
    
    Other than buying some new ones (ouch! leave my wallet along) or
    trying a scrap yard. I don't see the answer.
    
    Dave
    

    
    Re the scratched windows:-
    
    I had this problem on my last BX (19DTR). After a time whole areas of
    the plastic started to flake. I found that I could peal off the top
    surface in thin sheets. I came to the conclusion that the plastic
    windows had been coated with what looked like varnish and it is the
    varnish that was breaking down. On one window I managed to peal off
    most of the coating which left the plastic looking dull. I had ment to
    try recoating with a clear varnish but never got round to it.
    
    Ian.
    
    

    
    Thanks - recoating might be a solution... If I 
    ever get round to it I'll post the results ;-)
    
    -maarten.
    

        Is there any real difference in the engine oil for deisel or 
        petrol? I have a container of deisel engine oil, can I use that 
        in the 3.5 Lt V8 low compression engine or should I fork out 
        for the real stuff?
        
        Simon

    
    I gotta a problem with the fan heater on my BX. 90% of the time it's dead 
    at other times it works for a few minutes up to a few days. I could only
    think of a bad connection, but as the heater is difficult to get at, I 
    only checked the wires at the lever connection ( the one that sticks 
    out of the dash.) 
    
    Is there something else that could be causing this problem ?
    
    What would be the esiest way to isolate the fault ?
    
    thanks for any help ....                                 

What year is your BX?, if it's the old dash the fan is built into the heater unit. 
However, if it's the more modern models, the fan is incorporated into the scuttle under 
the bonnet, between the screen wash reservoirs.

However, the control is a continuosly variable reostat, so I'd suspect this first.
You could try Removing this and fitting a simple on/off switch to test.

Oh, and mine went once with the clip that holds the knob to the shaft splitting, so the 
knob would go round, but the switch wouldn't.

Richard

    Mine had a problem with the switch. Pressing the knob would make the
    fan work. It was worst at the '8 o-clock' position of the knob.
    
    I had this fixed - apparently there was some bit of the switch loose.
    It is not too difficult to remove the panel to get at the switch. You
    need to remove the coin box, door open lights etc. and the fresh air
    vents (If I remember right there are 2 screws in the air vents holding
    the top of the panel - lever out the moving bits in the vent to get
    access to the screws).
    
    My previous BX had a total failure of the fan. This was due to a bad
    transistor which supplied current to the fan.
    
    The electrics are not a strong point of the BX.
    
    Andrew

How much will a 16V (the black one with the very chic body work) cost me
on the old used market. 

Also what's the insurance (TPF&T bien sur) like for us young'nes [circa 22].
Just give me an example of some bloke living wherever, paying whatever if 
you would.

Mike.

p.s. Opinions on running this 158bhp Q car on a budget would be appreciated.

    Thanks for the replies, 
           
    It's an '84 BX and there's no switch or knob just a sliding lever which 
    moves across 3 metal plates to make contact for positions 
    I, II, III. I've had the front part of the facia off and the wires
    from the plates go behind the unit with all the heater contols and I 
    guess the heater and fan lie behind there somewhere. When the fan is 
    blowing theres plenty of heat, and when the fan is working it works 
    normally in all three postions - although it's been dead for the 
    last couple of weeks.   I'll have a look in the Haynes manual to see 
    exactly where this fan is located, then maybe I can
    feed it directly without removing all the heater controls ....

    I'm having this problem with my cold fan at the moment, and the problem
    appears to be the bushes being worn out and a worn bearing.  If you
    switch the heater on it doesn't always work, but if you tap it ...
    
    Might be worth checking.
    
    
    Shaun.

    RE                    <<< Note 37.650 by ESSB::SGREEN "Jambo" >>>
    
    Oh dear, the fan on these is mounted in the heater assembly behind the
    dash, it's a dash out job to replace.  I know this because on my first
    (old style) BX the heater fan bearings were noisy and it was a day and
    a half for the garage to replace it.
    
    I can't remember, is the slider also a continous variable?. If it is
    that only leaves the fan, though you could try connecting the wires
    (there should therefore just be two) together.
    
    If it's got discrete speeds, and there's more than two wires then the
    likelyhood is the resistor is inside the fan body. My AX had this and
    it burn't out (luckilly under warrantee), this believe it or not is a
    fan replacement job as they don't supply the resistors by themselves!.
    
    Richard

    
    Yep that fan is buried beneath the dash and like you say it ain't no 
    small job getting at it. After pulling out the dash and various odds 
    and sods you got to "drill out x and buy replacement parts y" and thats 
    before you even get to looking at the fan itself.                       
    
    Guess I'll live without it 'till I get a dry weekend with nothing 
    better to do.
                                                       
    Thanks fo the empathy %^) 

    If I may say so, this whole fan business is typically Citroen, and one
    of the many reasons I've never bought one or wanted one, and am never
    likely to either.
    
    Laurie.

    I would take issue with the last note.  I'm on my second fleet BX,
    before which my wife and I had an AX, before which we had a 2CV.
    
    Admittedly as you can see I'm a Citroen fan (no pun intended) so I'm
    fairly biased. 
    
    I've never worked on the BX (never had to - its a fleet car) but the AX
    and especially the 2CV were a joy to work on.
    
    The 2CV has to be about the easiest car to work on. You can unbolt the
    wings to give access to the engine from almost 360 degrees. All bolts
    were 13mm, also the size of the wheell nuts, so you could dismantle the
    engine with one spanner and/or wheel brace !
    
    The oil sump plug was magnetized so all the fillings that accumulate in
    the engine oil eventually stuck to it. When you changed the  oil, tou
    wiped the plug et voila. No nasty bits of metal still left clinging to
    the walss of the engine.
    
    The AX was pretty easy, also.
    
    It's horses for courses I guess , and Citroens can be 'eccentric' at
    times - which is why I like them. They're a bit different (or at least
    they were) from the rest of the cars you see around
    
    IMHO

    I too would take issue, whilst the 'mk1' BX's were not so easy to ework
    on, they have made steady and continual improvements to remedy this.
    One example was removing the fan from the heater box and placing in a
    very easy location under the bonnet.
    
    I also find my wife's AX easy to work on, and what I've seen of the ZX
    it's even easier.
    
    Richard

	re .649
    	My advice would be to invest in a subscription to National
    Breakdown or somesuch as my BX 16valve has been towed back to the dealer at
    least 5 times (i've lost track) in the 2.5yrs/60,000 miles I've had it.
	The problems were
	1)Hydaulic fluid dumped on the road when a seal failed.
	2)Elecrical fault resulting in non-charging of the battery
	3)The gear lever became disconnected from the gear box.
	4)The distributor cap developed a big hole.
	5)The clutch failed.Luckily,if thats the word,this happened only 100yrds
    from the Citroen dealer who service the car so I didn't need a tow,I just
    coasted down the hill into the forecourt.However thats where the luck ended
    as the mechanic while fitting the new clutch had an accident resulting in a
    hospital visit,stitches in his hand and 2 weeks off work!This car is jinxed
    methinks.
	6)The big ends went.New engine fitted total bill was #3.2K.
    .
    However if you want one with a new engine,clutch,battery,distributor cap and
    bloodstains all fitted in the last 6 months,mine should be available within
    the next few months once I've decided on what's to replace it.I don't think
    PHH can have made any profit on this car.
	Not to put you off too much my previous car was a BX19 GT which had no
    problems during the 3.5yrs/80,000 miles I had it,so they are not all lemons.
                                          

Jeezz, after that litany of disasters I'll forget all about buying one. It's
just that my AX has done 70K, never broken down, and has kept its looks pretty
well. I thought if this was indicative of Citro�n build quality post '88
then maybe a 16V BX of that vintage would be all right. I'm an admirer of 
Citro�n but I won't patronize you by suggesting it was a rogue car. Even my 
spectacles aren't that red.

Pity really, the car's a flyer (when it's going...) and I like the looks of
the [properly] body-kitted version. 

I'm sure there are happy owners out there, but whenever I here "Engine Rebuild"
I tend to get cold feet. Thing is, I thought that the engine would be the most 
reliable bit of the car since Peugeot use it for there performance 405's.

Cheers for the advice,

Mike

    
    	I get the impression that the experiences of a couple of replies
    back are distinctly non-typical!
    
    	It would therefore be unwise to let that greatly influence ones
    buying/leasing decision.
    				Malcolm.  8-) (BX driver) 

    
    It would also be unwise to keep this topic as a shrine to the BX, as
    some of us want to discuss the cons, as well as the pros, of the car
    and most of us [stop me if I'm going to far ;-)] are intelligent enough
    not to form a opinion solely on the basis of a few negative replies.

    As someone in SOAPBOX would say, I thank you.

    Mike.
    

    Whilst I agree with the previous reply that pros & cons should be
    discussed, unless both parties are allowed free expression a biased
    veiw will be percieved.
    
    For my tuppence worth I have a BX Diesel with 49,000 miles on the clock
    and my Dad is on his second petrol BX on the one hand I must praise all
    three I have knowledge of in that neither of us have ever been let
    down. Which is more than can be said for my previous fords. On the
    negative side mine has just had to have a new clutch which I've never
    had to have on a ford of this mileage, but having said that the total
    bill came to #94.50 at a citroen dealer, which doesn,t sound bad for a
    clutch to me. This is the *only* job I've had to have done apart from
    routine service items!! which I think aint bad!(my previous Ford had
    been towed in 3 times with engine probs and a new gearbox by this
    mileage)
    I know GM lovers out there are going to say my GM's better than
    that.....but I can tell you a tale or two about them as well.
    
    Richard
    
    P.s on a negative note I am not impressed with some of the trim or the
    scuttle shake

    In order to balance my general euphoria for the BX I should add that
    the radio/cassettes are usually not very good. the unit itself is
    Blaupunkt (is that good !?), but I think the problem is in the speakers
    and the amount (or lack) of wadding in the doors. Mine is the 2 way
    version (speakers in front doors only). As it's the diesel you need to
    crank up the volume a bit more than usual, but it's still only average
    compared with other cars I've driven.
    
    A small price to pay though, especially if all you listen to is R4 LW,
    though that is going , but thats a whole different issue :-)
    
    ho-hum

    <<< Note 37.662 by LARVAE::IVES_J "One i-node short of a file system" >>>
                   -< cest tres bien auto/cest merde radio >-

>    A small price to pay though, especially if all you listen to is R4 LW,
>    though that is going , but thats a whole different issue :-)
>    
>    ho-hum
     ^^^^^^
I think you mean Rumpty Tumpty tumpty tum? I hope we don't have French
moderators...

Dougie
           

    One of the mags has pictures of the new BX in it (forget which one).
    
    For a start it's no longer to be called a BX it now has a name (can't
    remeber what so it can't be THAT good)
    
    From the photo it looked like an XM< with a boot , except that it is a
    hatch back cunningly desguised to look like it has a boot. with me !?
    
    It looks a bit of a euro-box from the picture but I'll reserve
    judgement till I see one. IT definitley WILL feature hydro-pneumatic
    suspension AND be available with Diesel and Turbo Diesel options.
    Estates scheduled for 94 at the earliest.
    
    From the point of view of my next fleet car, I was somewhat
    disheartened to read that this is a more 'up-market' car than the BX.
    I read that as 'the quote will cost more'.
    
    guess it's the ZX for me then.

    Jonathan,
    
    I think the pics were in Autocar. The car is to be called 'Xantia',
    which sounds pretty naff to me. Seems like an attempt to be like Mazda
    with their Xedos, which is apparently pronounced "Kerzeedos"...
    
    Like you, I reckon they're just using a new model as an excuse to put
    the model more upmarket = more profit.
    
    Still, at least the Xantia will have 'proper' suspension (!). You're in
    danger of talking to a Citroen convert!
    
    
    
    Cheers,
    Stephen

    Saw Details of the Xantia on the the Telly the night before last.
    
    It wasnt a full road-test, it showed Citro�n's promo video for the car.
    It looked like a ZX from the front. 
    
    Apparently it's to come with 1.8, 2.0 & 2.0-16v petrol engines.
    onsale in France in the Spring and in the UK in the Summer
    
    Huw.

    So how do we pronounce "Xantia"?
    
    "Kantia" or "Zantia"? Or ...?
    
    Whats wrong with DX or FX ( to much like a PC or an Apple?)
    
    Dave

    If anyone has lost a BX wheel cover (The type used on my J reg 19GTI
    8V) there is one in the DEC Park overflow car park - on the grass near
    the steps. Its been there some weeks.
    
    It seems these dont stay on very well. I have lost both my rear ones a
    few times (until I put tie wraps to hold them on). The rear right cover
    came off once taking the retaining ring with it and again leaving the
    ring behind. Each time I managed to find them with only slight scuff
    marks. It seems to be associated with driving through deep puddles -
    presumably the water pressure forces the cover off.
    
    This also happened with my previous BX, though that time it was a front
    one. (In a ford. I discovered it was gone when I stopped some 10 miles
    later. On may way home I stopped in the ford leaned out the door and
    recovered the cover, much to the surprise of everyone else !)
    
    Other manufacturers seem to have similar problems (judging by the
    number of wheel covers you see on the roads, and the number of cars
    with covers tied on). Why cant they make them to stay put ?
    
    Andrew

    Well, the covers on mine have stayed put through 125K of violent abuse. 
    The covers on the GS stayed on with a wheel bearing like a hex nut. 
    The covers on the GSA stayed on when I wrote it off...
    
    Mind you, the last two had bolts to hold them on.....8*)
    
    Richard
    
    
    

    re: -1
    
    Well, I've written the BX off.
    
    But the hubcaps stayed on!  8*) 8*) 8*) (?)
    
    Richard
    
    
    

    
    I've just had my BX estate MOT'd and it failed for half the hydraulic
    pipes being corroded. Apparently a very common problem. All the pipes
    at the rear and the pipes running from the front to rear were replaced
    with pastic coated ones �320+ VAT It's put me off BX's for life
    especially as the cars only 4 years old.I'll be cleaning up the front
    pipes and painting them with rust preventative before the next MOT.
    
    Dave

    I had all the pipes from the bulkhead back replaced a couple of years
    ago.  The guy that did it wrapped a cable tie round them just about
    where they bend round at the nearside rear swinging arm pivot, with the
    result that the lowest pipe in the bunch was rubbing on the pivot...
    It took a few months to go through.
    
    Your next MOT rust failure will be holes in the front subframe rear
    mounting points...8*)
    
    Richard
    
    

	How about copper pipes?  They don't go rusty...

	Dave

    Yeah, that's what I had.
    
    Don't want to worry you, but once the water gets under the plastic...
    
    Richard
    

    Bloody good cars, these BXs...
    
    Laurie.

    Well, yes, they are, actually.  I smashed mine up just after Xmas and I
    miss it badly.  This old Renault just isn't as good.
    
    Richard
    

    ...and don't forget the binding front discs you have to replace the
    calipers to cure.  Ever burnt your finger on a front wheel nut?
    
    8*)
    
    A. Masochist
    

> Bloody good cars, these BXs...

Unless (or until) you're in an accident in one.

Dave.

    Rubbish.  The poor thing was dogfood from the firewall forward.  I
    hardly felt a thing.  The doors opened without a squeak when I stepped
    out.
    
    And it started and drove off the road onto the bank afterwards, despite
    there being a twenty-yard streak of LHM up the road behind it.
    
    Bloody good car.
    
    Richard
    
    PS in terms of things going wrong with it, I'd like to point out that
    it did have 125K on the clock....