Conference terri::cars_uk

Does anybody out there know of somewhere local to Reading that
imports alfa Spyders on a regular basis?  I've only ever seen
2 spyders (one in the car park here in the Crescent), and I
want to test drive one and find out a lot more about it generally
before deciding whether its the car for me.

I've seen Bell & Corvill mentioned in previous notes.  Does
anyone know where they are?

I'm particularly interested in the 1600 spyder, mainly for
insurance reasons (only group 6, versus group 7 upwards 
for the others).

Carol Levell
The Crescent, Basingstoke

    

   Bell & Colville (sp?) are in EAST or maybe WEST HORSLEY (on the road 
   between Guildford and Effingham). 

   R.

    
    	How urgently do you want to test one ? I'll have my LHD Spider
    2.0 back in the UK for a few days within the next couple of weeks
    if you fancy a thrash in that...
    
    	Do NOT go for the 1.6 version, it is completely gutless and
    comes without some of the nice extras like alloy wheels etc... How
    much do you want to spend on the car ? Remember that they are not
    cheap to run, and repairs are astronomically expensive. You will
    be very lucky to get a group 6 quote on a 1600 Spider, mine is
    a 8A car, the most expensive Norwich Union could find ! They work
    on th basis that it is a "sports" car , "convertible" and "foreign",
    it is therefore only slighly less dangerous than walking around with
    Semtex strapped to your body while holding a few live grenades with
    missing firing pins...
    
    	If you want any advice on what to look for, and experiences
    of and owner then drop me a mail,
    
    	Rat (Hezbollah al Semtex on wheels...)

    I am glad to see new interests for the marque.
    
    It's about time people get more serious about this special section of
    the conference :-)

    re -1
    
    Couldn't agree more. I've recently taken delivery of a 2.0 Twin
    Spark and am absolutely besotted after only a month and 1700 miles.
    
    The only slight criticism is that even a short-*rs* like me has
    slightly too long legs for the driving position. But I love the
    sound of that engine, and after a 205 1.9 GTi its all so quiet and
    refined.
    
    Paul

    re: -1
    
    I suppose you were refering to the 75 TS.  There is a ALFA 164 (LHD
    version) model with the same Twin Spark engine.  Also, there was news
    about new Spiders with the same engines.  Wonder if they have hit the
    road yet.

Re: .31

Don't you try before you buy?

An expensive mistake!

Dave

    
    Australian MOTOR magazine has voted ALFA 164 as the best luxury car
    of the year, winning 117 points as compared to runner-ups BMW 535 that
    got 95 points and Jaguar XJ 4.0 that got only 88 points from the
    judges.
    
    Also, British PERFORMANCE CAR magazine has named the same car to have
    the best styling.  (The 3.0 litre V6 engine was named best engine.)
    
    These are moments I believe all Alfisti should be proud of.
    

    The Alfa 33 Boxer 16v QV (Quadrifoglio Verde) has been announced, and on
    paper looks a good peformer. Top speed is 206km/h which compares well
    with the Tipo 16v, Gof 16v etc. Of all the "hot" 16v's, it is the only
    one with ABS as standard. Price in France is FF113500, slightly more
    than the Tipo, considerably more than the Mazda 323 1800GT but less
    than the rest.
    
    Ken

I have just test-driven, and ordered, the new 33 QV in Holland.  There is a 
5 month delivery delay, but still.  I am currently driving a Peugeot 205 1.9
GTI, which, I might add, I have had for over 3 years and am thoroughly 
pleased with.  However, the addition of a new family member forces the
need for a bigger car with 4 doors.  As my company are buying me the Alfa, 
I will probably keep the Pug a bit longer too, just for the wife to run around
in *8^) .

Anyway, on to the Alfa.  I gave it a test drive of about 100 km, in town, 
country, motorway and traffic jams.  All-in-all it proved to be almost as
much fun to drive as the pug, even with the smaller engine (1712 against 1915).
It was not as quick as the 205 on start, even thought the makers give a faster
time 0-100.  The guy at the garage said this was because it would take a while
for the 16 valves to settle down (2000 km or so he claimed).  I don't know
whether to believe this or not as he was a bit of a smarmy type, who probably
knows less about the workings of a car than I do (which is zero).  Still, it
is not an important point as it is quick enough for me anyway.  Sitting
in the car, visibility to the rear is poor, especially with the rear
mounted (redundant) spoiler.

Seating position is poor, the seats are too low and the steering wheel,
though it can be adjusted, in relation to the floor pedals means you are
stretching either your arms or your legs.  The gearing is stuck together
with knitting needles and is spongy to boot.

OK.  Thats the bad stuff out of the way, now heres the good stuff.  Start the
engine, growl, growl, a beautiful sound full of promise.  It delivers.  Start 
off and, surprise surprise, power steering (after the pug that is a boon).  So
the power steering will make up for the poor visibility when parking, great.
Moving off into traffic was easy, keeping it in first and revving it through
to around 5000 before slipping (bad way to describe the gear movement) into
2 nd, oops missed and got it in 4th.  No problem, the pick-up was immediate.
In town it was a dream, much quieter than the 205 and no 'almost stalling'
when allowing the engine revs to carry the car forward in 1st.  In the country
it takes bends with the same alacrity and fervour as the Pug and feels more
stable even on the sharpest bends.  Overtakes in no time too.

On the motorway it does quirk a bit at 130 km, must be a bad speed for it, but 
under and over these speeds it feels very tight.  The noise level again is 
much more bearable than the 205, but if you wind the window (electric) down
you can listen to the throaty roar of the engine with a smile.  Looking round
the car, the dash is not as exciting as the Pug but it is OK.  The interior
is very nice, the seats, though low, hold you very firmly even on wide
bends.  The rear seats too look comfortable and the colour a subtle grey.
Heating and ventilation is infinitely better than the Pug 8^).  Boot is
opened from the inside of the car, great.  Central door locking which
works from both doors (doesn't on the 205).  A wierd thing, which I 
believe is peculiar to Alfa, the ignition is on the left of the steering
column instead of the right.

On the Dutch version, ABS is not fitted as standard and costs an additional 
3,500 guilders (about 1200 pounds) and there is no sun roof which I think
should be standard.  I am also annoyed that you have to pay extra for Alfa
Red paint job, as in my opinion a paint job is a paint job.  However.....

I could say a lot more but I have to go home now.  Suffice to say that I am
looking forward to getting my new Alfa in 5 months time 8-( and am sure
that it will be as much fun to drive as the Peugeot.  It certainly gets
as many admiring looks as the Pug did when I first got it.

Garry

Have there been any reviews of the 16V 33 in any of the car magazines? 
If anybody in DECpark has a magazine containing a review, I'd appreciate
borrowing it.

Adrian

    There's a 2 page review in the June copy of Autocar (I think). When I
    went to the local Alfa dealer in Newbury, all they had was a photocopy
    of the article. Their demonstrator and the glossies are late arriving
    from Italy.
    
    I can put a copy in the internal mail when I'm back in the office on
    Monday, but it basically says the same as .36. Incidentally, there is
    no ABS option in the UK, neither will factory fit sunroofs be available
    until early next year, and then they'll only be simple glass tilt jobs.
    The Sportwagon version will not be out until Feb '91 at the earliest.
    
    Dick

Thanks Dick, I'd appreciate that.  Shame about the sunroofs.  I'm trying to
arrange a test drive with the Alfa dealer in Thatcham -- this is the
nearest Alfa dealer now that Kennet Motors have switched to Suzuki (!).

Adrian

    You could also try Black and White at Cold Ash. Their demonstrator is
    arriving this week (hopefully), and should be on the road by the middle
    of next. They should be giving me a call when it's available - I'll
    keep you posted.
    
    Dick

I should have said Cold Ash rather than Thatcham -- I also have a test
drive booked next week!

Adrian

Re .41, and everybody else who is going to test drive the QV.

I wish you luck, it is a great car and I really enjoyed my little jaunt.
The great thing was that the garage simply gave me the keys and left me to
get on with it (non-accompanied test drive).  Do they do that in UK too?

Because it is an operational lease, I am getting a Toyota Celica for next
week, thereafter I will get a Alfa 33 1.7 ie, to keep me happy until my 
QV arrives.

Incidentally, I will have ABS fitted and an electric sunroof, but it cost...

Garry (who is glad that he won't have to put up with the 205s suspension on
       the streets of Brussels anymore)

    For anyone living in the Surrey/south London area TW Whites at Bookham
    are having an open day on 7th July 10am-6pm,where the new Alfa's
    are going to be available.They are also selling cheap petrol for
    the day.
    
    steve
    

    The new ALFA got pretty good comments from "AUTO EXPRESS" magazine.
    
    It seems like a bargain (at least in U.K.) compared to BMW 318iS and
    some other continental cars.
    
    My local ALFA sales person told me that the car will be launched in
    Singapore in first week of August.  I shall go for a test drive, you
    bet.

    Switching the subject to another new ALFA, the 164 Twin Spark.
    
    I heard it's being launched in U.K. by now.  Has anyone test drove one
    yet?
    
    Here in Singapore, we would not have any chance to touch one until the
    end of this year, probably at the local auto show.

re .44
>    The new ALFA got pretty good comments from "AUTO EXPRESS" magazine.
>    
>    It seems like a bargain (at least in U.K.) compared to BMW 318iS and
>    some other continental cars.
    
    Might not seem such a bargain when you come to sell the Alfa....

    re .46
    
    Should everyone who buys a car be concerned about resell value of the
    car?  Or better yet, is resell value the only criterion for buying any
    car?  At least I can say that most people who are ALFA enthusiasts do
    not necessarily concern just about the resell values.
    
    Anyway, I would like to switch the subject to ALFA's engineering brio.
    
    When I look at the latest version of 1.7 litre 16-valve engine that
    powers the new ALFA 33, I can't help but to believe that the Italian
    marque manufacturer has something different to offer.  If anyone is
    familiar with the "boxer" engine development, he could well remember
    that it has come a long way since the first 1.2 litre engine was
    produced.  Those were the days when the engine produced a mere 86bhp. 
    Today, we are talking about the same engine capable of producing
    137bhp.  Isn't that the result of a well architected product?
    

    Just popping in here to say I'm back in the CARS_UK notesfile, but more
    importantly I'm now driving an Alfa.  I've had Alfas in the past and
    must say I'm happy to be back with the breed.  For info, the car is a
    1985 Alfa Romeo Graduate Convertible, and for the few Europeans in this
    file, it is basically a Spider without the air conditioning, power
    windows and power mirrors.  Oh yes, no power steering either.  Engine
    is 2 litre injected with VVT.  Exhaust is controlled to the limits!  It
    still has that wonderful Alfa roar though.  I have no idea on
    performance, but it's pokey enough for commuting around the Beltway in
    DC and holds it's own against all but the big beasts.  Took it up to 95
    on a freeway in northern New Hampshire before I saw the fuzz in the
    distance .......  Real fun car.  No E-type, but definitely an Alfa!
    
    Fuel economy is averaging about 30-31 around town (that's US gallons,
    which means nearer 43 mpg in the UK) and 35 on the highway.  I did get
    it down to only 22 mpg one day when in a hurry around town, but that
    was exceptional.
    
    Cost?  Well, how much would you pay for a Spider with 38,000 miles on
    it in immaculate condition in the UK?  The price over here was less
    than half that!  But I did have to pay 5% registration tax in Maryland.
    
    See y'all around in the file!		Brian (From hot & humid DC)

    Anyone know if there are after-market suppliers of Spider/Graduate
    hard-tops?  I ot an official quopte from our local Alfa dealer and he
    reckons around $3000  (Yipes!)  "but it does come with rooflining, rear
    de-fogger, lighting, and we fit it sir".  However, he did understand
    that I wasn't going to pay *that* much!
    
    So, the search is on for a hard-top in Europe.  Anyone with a copy of
    CCC or similar and could look through for me?  Anyone actually bought
    one?  I'm prepared to pay up to, say, #350 including shipping.  It
    doesn't have to be fancy or colour-keyed or anything like that, as long
    as it has the window fitted and comes with all the seal and mounting
    hardware.
    
    Thanks in anticipation,	Brian
    
    PS - please reply to  DCOPST::BRIANH::NAYLOR, not the address on this
    note which is a pass-through node for accessing notes from my hidden
    node.  Of course, you could just post a reply ...

    Any luck yet on the hard-top? Here are a couple of UK addresses that
    might be worth checking out. It's not first-hand info; a friend has
    more Alfas than I do now and has been to these places.
    
        BENALFA Performance Cars
          Washington Road,  West Wilts Trading Estate,
          Westbury, Wiltshire  BA13 4JP
          Alan Bennett proprietor
          (0373) 864 333
          * I believe this guy is pretty good. A real Alfa nut himself.
    
        E.B. SPARES (The Italian Connection)
          2 Washington Road, West Wilts Traiding Estate,
          Westbury, Wiltshire  
          (0373) 823 856   Fax: (0373) 858 327
          * this place is pretty big, have ads in some of the mags.
    
       No, it's not a typo: the two places are side-by-side (or one behind
       the other or something).
    
    russ
    

I phoned them and the word is that the hard-tops are generally less water-tight
than the soft-tops!  They both also said they didn't know of any, and that
the thing would probably be very expensive anyway.  Ah well, at least my local
friendly backstreet garage (EEC Cars - work only on Porsche, BMW, Merc, E-types
and, now, Alfas) think they can get me one off a scrap job from California.

Anyone got any experience of setting up the injection system on a Spyder?

Brian

Hi,

	I just wondered what a V reg' (~1979/80) alfa GTV6 2.0 would fetch 
	these days.  How much for one with poor bodywork (well it is an alfa)
	and good mechanicals, and how much for one with pretty good body work
	and good mechanicals.  Does anyone have any - even vague - ideas???


		Steve 

    
    Are you buying or selling ??
    
    
    
    
    Jeff.

    
    Ad in last weeks Classic Car Weekly showed an "immaculate & completely
    restored" '83 GTV6 for �5k. Trade ad, so buy-in price for top condition
    would be around �3k to give margin/advertising costs/warranty cover --
    last named very important on any Alfa .....
    
    Recent prices I've seen range from �500 to �6k. All depends on
    condition (especially bodywork -- do not touch anything with rust) --
    year much less important.
    
    One of the Classic mags has a comparitive test this month of Lancia
    HPE, GTV6, & Fiat Abarth. GTV6 wins, but not by that much. Splendid
    car & a really good one will be a sensible buy, which will keep its
    value. My own Alfa experience tells me to leave anything less than 
    A1 well alone.

Until March 10, the Design Museum, Butlers Wharf, London, is showing 
"Sport through Design" an exhibition of classic road and racing Alfas from the 
Junior through to the SZ. They have about 6 cars, several models and various 
design drawings, sketches etc. Not a big display, but probably very interesting
to the Alfa fanatic. I certainly enjoyed it. There is a smart poster that 
accompanies the exhibition.

- Scott

    Hi,
    
    Does anyone have a workshop (or even Haynes ...) manual to hand and
    able to tell me :
    
    The gear ratios and diff ratio used on a 1500 5-speed Sud and same for
    the 4-speed .... was it 1200 ???
    
    Also kerb weight in kg's for the above
    
    Finally, the battery and alternator ratings ???
    
    Many thanks
    
    Mark
    

    Anybody have knowledge/experience of Autodelta Services (Wembley) for
    tuning or upgrades? They advertise various engine size upgrades,
    including V6-2.5 to 3.0 or 3.3.
    
    Any experience with other garages that do Alfa "tuning"? Since my GTV6
    is now making smoke (about 120k km), it's time for an engine rebuild
    anyway, so I'm interested in some "creative" rebuilding. 
    
    I'm going to contact Autodelta and Benalfa directly, but it would help
    if any of you had information.
    
    Cheers,
    Russ

    
    	I've never used either of the two garages above, but for a not
    entirely unbiased opinion try calling Ramponi Rockell (71 262 2448)
    and asking Alex what he reckons to them... He'll be honest, and I think
    he has done some work on bored out engines in the past, including a
    2.5 V6 Spider... Or ask Alex what he would charge...:-)
    

    I have been reading this note with interest and I would like to add
    some more info on this great marque.Over the last seven years I have
    had the pleasure of owning four Alfas.The first was an Alfasud 1.5Ti 
    G/C which I had for two years,the body-work was A1 and it had a full
    service history as you would expect buying from my local dealer.I sold
    the car to a Ford mechanic! and he was enthusiastic about the handling
    and engine as compaired to an XR2 and XR3i.
    
    The second car was an Alfa Sprint G/C 1.5Ti 1983,same runing gear as
    above and handling a little better due to being lower suspension.I
    traded in an XR3i for this an instantly found it to be streets ahead in
    road-holding.When it came to selling it was advertised in the Auto Mart
    16 people came to veiw and the second bought proving that Alfas are
    starting to shed there image as rust buckets.
    
    The third was 33 but I did'nt have this long so I am unable to comment.
    
    Finally I have at last got myself the car I wanted, a GTV6 2.5 in Alfa 
    red.This has the speedo fitted in the usual position and the rev
    counter in the centre in line with the gear stick.The car is a 1981
    with full service history and bought from the same dealer as the above 
    3.
    I would appreciate any info or opinions on the GTV.
    
     PS. The dealers are  Fishers of Edinburgh.
     
    
    
    

�    Finally I have at last got myself the car I wanted, a GTV6 2.5 in Alfa 
�    red.This has the speedo fitted in the usual position and the rev
�    counter in the centre in line with the gear stick.The car is a 1981
�    with full service history and bought from the same dealer as the above 
�    3.
    
    What a surprise, I've just gone and bought myself one of these,
    a 1982 model, also in red...
    
�    I would appreciate any info or opinions on the GTV.
    
    I was going to ask the same sort of question, any pitfalls to look
    out for, besides the dreaded tin-worm ?
    
    I bought the car on Saturday and on Monday I saw a copy of CAR Mechanics
    magazine on the shelf at the newsagent.  It has an article on buying
    GTV6's - I bought it and was glad to find it didn't have any real
    horror stories.  It does caution about buying a car with poor trim,
    since it is difficult to get nowadays.  Mine has cigarette burns in
    most of the seats, so I may get them recovered (depends on cost).
    Other than that, slightly noisy exhaust, some ghastly side stripes,
    a bit of smoke from the tailpipe and a dodgy main beam switch are
    the only faults that I have spotted so far.
    
    Rust is almost non-existent on the car, a major surprise !
    
    J.R.

    
    John,
    
    There is a upholsterer in Hook, who do good work at a reasonable
    price.
    
    Mark

    
    	GTV 6s are very nice cars, but watch out for the clutch going,
    its a double plate job, and will cost a fortune to replace...! Would
    you guys like to say how much you paid for the GTVs ? I was considering
    one myself, but may decide to make the third Alfa in my set a GT
    Junior...

    
    Re : .59
    
    I had a later model of the GTV6 - silver, '86 and perfect condition.
    It had a far more sensible dashboard than the early models but was
    essentially the same car. My impressions :
    
    Driving : Very much a grand tourer, felt rock solid at 160/180 km/h
    on the Autobahn but rather unwieldy on twisty mountain roads. The
    balance/handling was nowhere near as sweet as on the Bertone GTV
    although the roadholding was far superior. I suspect however, that my
    car was overshod with 225s allround (from the previous owner) and this
    I would certainly have changed if I'd kept it.
    
    Engine : A real gem, nicest sounding engine I've ever driven behind,
    silky smooth and a wonderfull rasp above 4000. BUT let down by a dog of
    a gearbox situated in the back (for better weight balance). It was
    "clunky" with a nasty feel and changing down to 2nd, even
    double-declutching was always an adventure !
    
    Reliability : With the exception of the brake lights going (faulty
    sender), I never had any problems at all. Service bills were always
    steep but they are for all cars here in Germany. The only sign of rust
    was on the boot lid though mine came with a 6-year anti-rust warranty
    (albeit with loads of fine print). The previous owner said the things
    to look out for were the headgasket (he said needed replacing after
    every 50,000 kms) and the camshaft belt.
    
    General : Despite a few warts (gearbox, non-folding rear seats -
    despite being a hatchback...) I really liked this car : stylish, fast
    and a lovely engine. It was unfortunately stolen in Verona last year
    and was never recovered... 
    
    
    Still have the 2000GTV (Bertone) though, and have yet to drive a car
    that I enjoy as much as this one. I will post the details of it's
    2-year (still not finished) rebuild in Milan if anyone's interested.
    Would be interested on others' opinions on these 2 cars.
    
    Cheers Jon
    
    

My Spider was laid up for a few weeks recently - the clutch fluid all leaked
away somewhere.  I got that fixed (after much consternation because there is
NO bleed nipple on the slave cylider!), but now she's exhibiting a reluctance
to start.  No particular reason found, same whether she's hot or cold, or even
warm.  When she's running, she's as sporty as ever, although she did backfire
a couple of times I noticed.

One strage thing happened - the second time I started her up after being quiet
for 5 weeks was that she ticked over but wouldn't respond to the throttle,
just coughing a spluttering when depressed, but settling back to a smooth
tick-over when idling.  This disappeared when I switched off and immediately
restarted, not to be seen since (yet!).

Without resporting to replacing the ECU in the fuel injection system, anyone
got any less than obvious suggestions?  (I've checked all the obvious things
already and they're fine.)

Brian

    re .62:
    
    There is apparently a large single-plate clutch available to replace
    the double-plate version. The single-plate is supposed to be better and
    cheaper. 
    
    russ

    Re. double-plate clutch and single-plate replacement
    
    This was mentioned in the CAR Mechanics article, the replacement
    costing 220 pounds, coming from the 3-litre 75.  I don't know
    what the standard one costs, but mine is not perfect, so I
    guess I'll be finding out sooner or later.
    
    Re. gearbox.
    
    Again, the article mentions that 2nd gear synchro tends to go,
    but using a synthetic gear oil helps somewhat.  Another thing
    I will probably have to see to, but since I double-declutch
    most times when I change down to second it isn't a problem
    (at least not yet).
    
    Re. dashboard layout.
    
    Mine was registered in December '82 and has the dash layout
    with all dials in front of the driver.  I believe that earlier
    models had centrally-placed instrument pods.
    
    
    Seating position does require me to sit with legs bent up
    quite a bit, with my arms fairly outstretched.  This isn't
    uncomfortable, but doesn't seem ideal.  At least a footrest
    is provided next to the clutch pedal.
    
    
    Engine, certainly sounds wonderful and pulls quite nicely.
    Question is, how should I change the plugs, with the engine
    hot or cold (with alloy heads).  Actually getting a plug spanner
    that reaches the plugs wasn't too easy either, of the five different
    spanners/sockets I have available, only one socket and extension
    fits all plugs, with a spanner that fits four of them, if only
    there were room to turn it !
    
    
    Re. price
    
    I paid 2200 pounds for mine, with no apparent body rot, seems like
    a good price for this particular car in this condition.  I am sure
    it could be sold for something like 3000 or more as it stands.
    
    J.R.

    re. synchro:
    Since I've been driving Alfas for many, many years, I've learned to
    live without synchro ;-)  The GTV-6 is the worst though, compounding
    the problems with the linkage to the rear. Double-clutching is
    necessary when _up_-shifting into second if you're trying to move away
    quickly.
    
    The engine is a beauty, though. Rev limiter is important until you get
    used to the car: the engine sounds smoother and smoother as you rev
    higher and higher. 
    
    russ

    
    >> Oh for a road car with a Hewland or a Staffs?
    
    Sorry you lost me, what are these ??? Gearboxes from a tank, boat...?
    
    Confused 
    Jon

�    >> Oh for a road car with a Hewland or a Staffs?
�    
�    Sorry you lost me, what are these ??? Gearboxes from a tank, boat...?
    
    These are fitted to racing cars, of mid- or rear- engined formats.
    (he's not allowed to use this sort of gearbox in his car unless
     it is fitted to a 'production road car', I believe).
    
    
    Going back to Derek's comment on Alfa 'boxes, are they actually robust ?
    
    With poor, or non-existent, synchro - will the gearset still last ?
    
    J.R.

    
    I've heard of Hewland (of course), but where do Staffs come from and
    what are/were they fitted in?
    
    Mark

    Company called "Staffs Silent Gears" if memory serves me right.
    
    Based in Staffordshire ?
    
    I think their product is used by some F.Ford competitors
    and is similar in nature to smaller-spec hewland boxes.
    
    Other than that, I can't really tell you much.
    
    J.R.

>>    Company called "Staffs Silent Gears" if memory serves me right.

Also used in Swift DB4 Formula Atlantics (between a F3 & F3000) in the
U.S. When they originally were put in the F.A.s they were unreliable.

�    Any experience with other garages that do Alfa "tuning"? Since my GTV6
�    is now making smoke (about 120k km), it's time for an engine rebuild
�    anyway, so I'm interested in some "creative" rebuilding. 
�    
�    I'm going to contact Autodelta and Benalfa directly, but it would help
�    if any of you had information.
�    
�    Cheers,
�    Russ

    
    Did you get any information, or prices, on V6 tuning ?
    
    J.R.

    I got prices from outfit in the UK. I haven't got around to contacting
    the other references there yet, or the one place in France that might
    do Alfa work. If anybody is interested, I'll post the price list I
    received -- and you'll see why I'm not in a big hurry.
    
    russ

�    I got prices from outfit in the UK. I haven't got around to contacting
    
    I'd like to see these figures, if only for a shock - or a laugh !
    
    In the CAR Mechanics article, the following prices were listed :
    
    	Part:				Main Dealer:	Specialist:
    
    	Damper				36.40		80.00 (set, Sachs)
    	Bottom balljoint		23.35		na
    	Upper arm complete		82.45		na
    	Upper joint			na		12.50 (early car)
    	Track rod end			20.50		na
    	Single plate clutch kit		na		220.00
    	Exhaust				na		260.00 (Ansa)
    	Front wing			217.00		117.00
    	Door shell			400.00		na
    	Sill				40.95		na
    	Front bumper			155.00		na
    
    Prices are in pounds sterling.
    
    Also mentioned in the article is the fact that you could fit the
    2.5 or 3.0 litre V6 engines from the Alfa 75, or the SZ.
    The 3 litre engine is quoted at 3000 pounds plus VAT.
    Exchange gearbox 995.00 plus VAT.
    
    Having spoken to an Alfa specialist (Ken Bell, Fleet), he said
    that is is not worth fixing the synchro since it only lasts for
    about 14000 miles.
    
    I phoned an Alfa dealer (Monzasport, nr Fareham) to see about the
    price of a clutch.  The reply came with a warning to sit down first,
    coming to 581.70, of which 503.50 was the cost of parts !
    When I asked about fitting of a later model clutch (as CM article
    said that the 75 unit can be installed), he said it was the same price.
    
    
    I've had the car in at Ken Bell's for a new clutch slave cylinder
    which went the other night and a general check-up.  This found that
    rear brakes needed replacing, so that is being done today.
    Then it should be back to some happy motoring, for a while at least.
    
    J.R.

    
    The SZ engine is the same as the 3.0 litre V6 of the 164
    (also fitted to the 3 litre 75, I think). That said, the
    engine does sound better when fitted in an SZ (I'm still
    grinning from bringing an SZ down from Manchester, early
    this morning).
    
    William.
         

    
    Isn't the SZ a pretty highly tuned version of the V6? 
    
    Mark

    
    Actually, I can't be sure either way, but I seem to remember that
    its a standard engine. I'll ask. For the record, its quick; but
    the most memorable aspects of the car are its handling and sound.
    Even the outrageous exterior, and beautifully sculpted interior,
    pale into insignificance when you hear the car... If you saw
    'Shrink wrapped classics', you'll know what I mean.
    
    Maybe this ought to be a nomination for the best two seater. Then
    again, I think I still prefer the 911 RSR.
    
    William.

    
�    The SZ engine is the same as the 3.0 litre V6 of the 164
    
    I thought that it had slightly different injection/ignition
    mapping to produce a bit more power, and maybe different cams...
    
�    grinning from bringing an SZ down from Manchester, early
�    this morning).
    
    How do you put an envious face into a note ?  (coloured green)
    
    J.R.

    
    "Bringing an SZ down from Manchester."
    
    You jammy sod. How did you manage that.?

    re SZ engine.
    
    
    The engine is indeed similar to the 3.0 Litre in the 164,75 but the SZ
    version produced around 24BHP compared to 192BHP for the standard
    engine.
    
    Grant

    
    It feels as though its got more than 24BHP, but I'll take your
    word for it Grant.
    
    The car belongs to a friend, it was up at Mangoletsi's for a
    service.
    
    William.

    
    Nah, rubbish, my wife's got the real mean machine. 
    
    Her Fiat Uno's got 45 BHP!!!!
    
    Mark

    
    I remembered to ask about the SZ engine. It is a slightly
    modified version of the 3.0 litre V6, producing about 210bhp
    (maybe more, as this one has a special exhaust with no cat).
    
    William.

�    modified version of the 3.0 litre V6, producing about 210bhp
    
    That's the figure I recall seeing quoted for this model.
    
    I guess there must be some internal changes too, since I thought
    that the Autodelta advert listed against the SZ engine a 3.5 litre
    version, with the 164 engine only going up to 3.3 litres - although
    that is from memory, which is known to play funny tricks at times :-)
    
    J.R.

    
    
    Alfa did build a 3.5 litre engine for the very successful prodrive?
    series that Ballestre masterminded. The series was, of course,
    cancelled before a single race had taken place in true JMBall$up
    style.
    

    Question :
    
    Should I change spark plugs on the GTV6 with the engine warmed up first ?
    
    J.R.

OOOPS!!

	That should have been 240BHP.  The standard engine produces 
around 210BHP,  There is actually a version of the 164 that has the 
240BHP engine (from the SZ 30 ).

Grant

    FWIW -- Recently spoke to the local Alfa dealer, having just put the 
    Spider in for a service, and got some bits for the GTV. News is the new
    Alfa 155 will be availble in France from January. 
    
    Front wheel drive (or 4x4), there will be five variants:
    
    	1.8 Twin Spark
    	2.0 Twin Spark
        2.4 V6
        2.0 16v Turbo (Lancia engine i think) 4x4
        2.0 Turbo Diesel

�    Alfa 155 will be availble in France from January. 
    
    If it's available that soon, shouldn't they have it at the motorfair ?
    
    What size vehicle is it, Tipo-based again ?
    
    J.R.

    Yes, it is Tipo based.
    
    >> shouldn't thay have it at the motorfair ? 
    
    Just guessing, but as there usually there is a gap of 5-6 months
    between European and Uk release - that would make it about ready for
    the Birmingham show. 
    
    
    Ken

    I also bought a GTV6 a couple of months ago. I knew that the car would
    require a bit of work (6 years and 180000 kliks), but I must say that
    I was surprised at the amount of rust that I found in difficult to
    access places. Specifically I am speaking of the ventilation channels
    beneath the windscreen and the inner mudgaurds at the rear. At the
    local Alfa specialist they stated that the ventilation channels are a
    known weak spot, and that the worms have usually had a specacular feast 
    before the results of their foray become visible. GTV drivers beware!
    
    On the whole I must say that the car is special, though, and well worth
    the trouble of keeping in good shape. I think that a car like a Spider
    is more fun to drive (oversteer and solid changes), but although the
    potential of the GTV makes it a lot more serious (high speed four wheel
    drift) it is also more practical and more fuel efficient.
     
    A weak point not mentioned by anybody yet is that of cracking master 
    cylinders. The early models sometimes had this flaw, but I presume that 
    it was solved later becaue of the possible consequences.
    
    Right now I am busy replacing the gearbox with one from a 75 3-litre.
    This box features the single-plate clutch, higher ratio's and a limited
    slip diff. I hope that something has been done about the synchro too,
    but I suppose this is wishful thinking.
    
    By the way, does anybody know if the block of the 3-litre engine is
    different. I have heard that it has been strengthened, and is therfore
    more reliable than a stretched 2.5-litre.
    
    Andre
                    

�    access places. Specifically I am speaking of the ventilation channels
�    beneath the windscreen and the inner mudgaurds at the rear. At the
    
    Just so I can check the condition of these, can you explain just where
    to look for the ventilation channels.  I guess you mean the ones on
    the outside of the car, would I have to remove the plastic grilles
    to be able to spot any rot in them ?
    
    
    BTW, if anyone wondered why the GTV6 has plastic panel on the top
    of the bonnet hump, I think I've found out why :-
    
    It's so that the neighbour's cat has a comfy seat when the engine's warm !
    
    ;-)
    
    J.R.

�                          -< source of Alfa-sud LSDs >-
�
�The 23's box is nearly Ex-
    
    Not sure about limited-slip diff's, but for any Alfa spares,
    you may find it worthwhile to ring Ken Bell to see if he can help.
    
    He is an 'Alfa specialist' and gets a number of parts from ex-alfas,
    so might possibly have a spare box to suit your application.
    
    He is based in Fleet, just round the corner from the train station,
    phone number is (0252) 629159.

    re .95
    
    There are two ways to check for rust in the ventilation channels of the
    GTV6.
    
    The easy way: Take a torch and check under the bonnet in the corner as
    far back as you can right next to the inner mudguard (in the neighbourhood
    of the wiper motor). What you then see is the the underside of the
    ventilation channel. If you see any blisters or anything, you can be
    sure that it is rusted right through from inside.
    
    The difficult way: Remove the dashboad, and then remove the plastic
    ducts that lead to the side air-outlets in the dashboard. You can then 
    see the channel, which runs right across the car. If you choose this 
    approach you can also take the opportunity to treat the inside of this 
    channel with protective compound. While you are at it, you can remove 
    the spats behind the front wheels to improve access and illuminate the 
    problem area.
    
    Judging by the condition of these areas in my car, I can't advise you
    strongly enough to do treat the ventilation channel and in particular
    the extremities. Keep in mind that whenever it rains all the water that
    pours through the entry grid has to be drained, either through the central
    drain or through the apertures in the problem areas at the extremities.
    
    Good luck and kind regards,
    Andre
            

     RE 60
    
    
     I've now had the GTV6 for 500 miles,the low milage is due to the
     dealers fixing bits and pieces I was not happy with.
     The car is fine,it handels as I thought but I found that when going
     slowly ie.through a car park that you keep a firm grip of the wheel
     because any pot holes encountered tends to try and wrestle the wheel
     from your hands this could result in an expendsive repair.
     The gear box is fine except when changing from first to second there
     is a feeling that there is a slight obstruction there, maybe it is not
     a straight h box and first to second  is a slight dog leg to the
     left.One way I have got round this is to pause before engaging second,
     but when changing down from third there is no problems.
    
     PS one tip the dealer gave me was before high revs was used wait till
     the engine has reached it's proper temp and pressure,if mnot it could
     result in blown gaskets.
    
    
                          Cheers Andy.
     
     
     
     
           
           
           
            
            
     
     

�                              -< Dog leg or Not? >-
    
    Not as far as I can tell.  It's just bad at going into second,
    since the synchro is poor.  Delaying the shift will help, but
    on the way down from 3rd, double-declutching may be required.
    
    Making fast gearchanges always results in some noise of complaint
    (at least on my gearbox).
    
    This problem is also much worse when the gearbox oil is cold.
    
    At some point, I'm going to change the box oil for some synthetic
    and may even consider putting some additive in there, but I am
    wary of things like that.
    
    Re. firm grip of the wheel / potholes
    
    Generally when driving, I have developed the habit of holding the
    steering wheel rim with my fingertips, not wrapping my fingers/thumbs
    around the spokes.  This is a good way of saving fingers from damage
    when driving off-road, not a real requirement on the road in a GTV6.
    
    Take caution if driving through potholes, I bent a Lancia alloy in
    the past and don't wish to repeat the experience.
    
    
    Re handling
    
    The GTV6 doesn't seem to hold on so well as the Manta in simple
    cornering forces.  It slides (all four wheels) and uses more road,
    but overall it does handle more 'nicely' (what a subjective term !).
    
    Better tyres on the Alfa (it's got P6's at present, bloody noisy tyres
    when you push it) should get it out-handling the Manta all round.
    The softer suspension on the Alfa also affects the handling somewhat,
    but does lead to a much smoother ride.
    
    
    J.R.

    I've now had the following jobs done on my car :
    
    	Clutch slave cylinder replaced.
    
    	New rear brake discs and pads (old ones worn to the metal).
    
    	Second-hand, reconditioned, rear brake caliper fitted.
    
    	Full service, including new front disc pads.
    
    	New clutch !   Fitted version from an Alfa 75
    
    	New 'doughnut' from propshaft (old one split)
    
    	Fitted stereo - very important !
    
    	New oil pressure sender unit
    
    	Fixed main beam part of lightswitch
    
    	Removed ghastly side stripes
    
    	New set of keys cut - why do you only ever get one set ?
    
    Not bad for a few weeks ownership, eh ?
    
    Not all of these jobs *had* to be done right away, but they would
    have needed to be sorted out some time over the winter, so the sooner
    the better.  I just hope I don't get any surprises in the near future.
    
    Known jobs that will need seeing to next year :
    
    	Rear tyres will need replacing (although I'll probably get a
    	complete set of something worthwhile, Yokohama I expect)
    
    	Exhaust system, centre and rear sections.  Rear box had been bodged
    	by previous owner, I may re-do the bodge to last a while yet.
    	Price quoted from local exhaust centre is �250, but I may go
    	for an alternative exhaust (perhaps ANSA).
    
    	Valve guides need replacing, currently smokes quite a bit at idle.
    
    Other items 'for attention' :
    
    	At service, it was reported that front bearings had become
    	contaminated with water and should be replaced.
    
    	Rear-view mirror wobbles about like crazy.
    
    	Door mirror shell badly rusted.
    
    
    Other 'wishlist' jobs :
    
    	Replace dampers and possibly springs with stiffer versions.
    
    	Retrim seats and interior panels.
    
    	Have alloy wheels cleaned up professionally (not too bad for now).
    
    	Make the engine produce more power (and more power, and more power...)
    
    	Fit Aeroquip flexible brake pipes.
    
    	Get onto a race track   ;-)   :-)
    
    
    And all because ???
    
    		J.R.

    
    RE -1.
    
    Where did you have the work done ??
    
    JN.

    Ken Bell's in Fleet, Hampshire.
    
    Address + phone number listed a few replies back.
    
    He gets most of his parts from the suppliers in Wiltshire (with the
    option to get them same-day using a courier, �6 extra), so works
    out substantially cheaper than an Alfa Dealer.
    
    He has a couple of mechanics, does a lot of work on Sud's and 33's.
    He also has a mobile 'hometune' operation running from the premises.
    
    His company has also been involved in preparation of cars for the
    AROC race series (and possibly other championships).
    
    J.R.

    
    The engine in my Guilietta needs some work and a tune up.
    
    I'm a member of AROC and I've learnt quite a few things
    about the twin cam engines. I've been advised that the 
    head gaskets should be renewed at about 50,000 miles 
    or sooner depending on how you drive.
    
    I also wish to refresh the oil in the gearbox/diff but I'm
    not too sure what to use, sythetic or otherwise.
    
    I also have a suspicion that the bearings in the bell housing
    drive train are starting to make some noise although I'm not
    totally convinced.
    
    Still, its jet black, its a Y reg, its only done 56,000 miles
    and its in bloody good nick and I enjoy driving it. Needs a 
    clean though.
    
    JN.

    IS IT POSSIBLE TO UP-RATE THE TERRIBLE DIP AND MAIN BEAM ON THE GTV.
    SINCE THE WEATHER HAS GOT WORSE THIS PROBLEM HAS COME TO THE FORE,
    AND IS A NIGHTMARE TO DRIVE AT NIGHT.

>>    IS IT POSSIBLE TO UP-RATE THE TERRIBLE DIP AND MAIN BEAM ON THE GTV.
    
    I believe that sealed-beam units are used, so it isn't going to be so
    simple in uprating the lamps on this vehicle.  What's the chance of
    finding a better unit that actually fits ? 
    
    If not sealed-beam, then of course higher-rated bulbs could be fitted.
    (but may not be legal if you increase the rating of the dipped beam)
    
    
>>    AND IS A NIGHTMARE TO DRIVE AT NIGHT.
    
    Have you tried setting the beams up differently ?
    Mine are not in the 'correct' position, but do at least show more detail
    in the approaching left-hand verge.  Can't set up dip beam to do the
    same for the r.h.s. without dazzling oncoming vehicles, but the main
    beam shouldn't be such a problem - so long as they still light up the
    centre of the road ahead.
    
    J.R.

    
    I think you'll find both Cibi� and Hella do conversion kits for
    sealed beam -> halogens.... and you would probably only need to
    do the outer (dip/main) lights.
    
    Richard. 

    Well, I've now found out that my GTV6 has not got sealed-beam units,
    it has bulbs, one of which decided to go last night.  I've already
    put in a replacement, but would like to know if I'm allowed to
    uprate these bulbs.  They are 55W for the dip beam.
    
    Can anyone tell me if this is the maximum legal wattage ?
    
    J.R.

    
    Halfords have a book on headlamp bulb upgrades....
    
    The book says the following upgrades can be performed legally.
    
    60/55   can be uprated to 100/55, 100/80 or 130/80
    
    55      can be uprated to 100 or 130.

    
    Richard.    

   
>>    Halfords have a book on headlamp bulb upgrades....
>>    
>>    The book says the following upgrades can be performed legally.
    
    This lunchtime, I had a look in Halfords myself.
    I see that they have a list of bulb upgrades, as you've pointed out.
    
    Trouble is, if I try to look up Alfa Romeo in their book, I find
    that they start with Audi...  I'll have to compare the old bulb
    type (or read any inscriptions on it) to find out which fitting
    my car uses.
    
>>                       -< Beware the alternator/battery >-
    
    Thanks for the warning, but I reckon I'll be alright unless I
    also use heater fan, h.r.w., wipers, and stereo+amp at once
    for a reasonable length of time...
    
    J.R.

    
    If anyones interested.
    
    I have a review article on the ALFETTA which includes the 
    GTV. The other article I have is for the Giulietta.
    
    The ALFETTA article dates fron AUTOCAR 11 April 1981 and the
    Giulietta from AUTOCAR 26 Feb 1983.
    
    Both make interesting reads. The Alfetta article is now over 
    ten years old.
    
    If anyone would like a copy of these articles please send a mail
    or phone 4138 DEC park.
    
    JN.

    Again, if anyone wants a copy of the [fairly recent] review of the
    GTV6 (in CAR Mechanics), please mail me, giving your internal address...
    
    J.R.

    
    In case anyone is interested, I saw an advert in "De Telegraaf" (Dutch
    newspaper) last Saturday (11 - 1 - 92), for an ES 30 ("Il Mostro!") NEW
    for only 195,000 Hfl (guilders).
    
    Perhaps one of you rich guys would fancy it!
    
    I'd like it, only there's not enough room in the boot :-)
    
    
    Mike H.
    

RE: -.1

What's that in real money (i.e. Matabele gumbo beans)?!

    
    
    re: .116
    
  > What's that in real money (i.e. Matabele gumbo beans)?!
    
    I don't know about beans, but in Sterling that's about 62,000 pounds,
    
    or in Belgie Franks about 3.3 Million !
    
    Mike H.
    
    
    
    

     Does any one know if there is a problem with the oil consumption
     on the GTV.I have noticed that when I have just stopped there is a
     smell of burnt oil present.The car has done 80thou and has been 
     looked after,but I would like to know if this is common on this
     type of engine or is this the sign of impending doom.
               I have also noticed that there is some oil scum in the 
     header tank for the radiator,there is no smoke coming from the exhaust
     when started in the morning or when driven hard and over 800 miles
     the level on the dipstick has gone down by about 5/8th of an inch
     but I don't know the capacity between min and max to gauge it.
     

>>     Does any one know if there is a problem with the oil consumption
>>     on the GTV.
    
    On mine, it's caused by worn valve guides.  Engine at 93000 miles.
    
>>               I have also noticed that there is some oil scum in the 
>>     header tank for the radiator,there is no smoke coming from the exhaust
    
    But I can tell the engine is burning it by the smoke from the exhaust.
    
    Oil in the water ?  That sounds suspiciously like a head gasket problem.
    They are known to go on these engines, aren't they ?
    
    Not sure you would smell burnt oil though.  Can you see any around the
    head/exhaust area.  If the gasket has gone it could perhaps be leaking
    here and burning up on the manifold, as well as getting into the
    coolant.  Is there any sign of oil in the water [on the dipstick] ?
    
    J.R.

     >> signs of water on the dipstick?
      
        after a quick look none was found,but whilst looking noticed
        that there is some oil leaks,I will investigate further when
        I finish shifts on Monday.Will also find out how much the 
        damage is if this is not under warranty.
    
        
    
      

     
    
    Head gaskets can be a problem on these engines. Also look at
    the inside of the oil filler cap "olio". Is there a creamy
    substance. ?
    
    Oil in the water is a sure sign that the head gasket is on its
    way out so John is correct. Get it sorted quickly, alloy
    engines do not like over heating.
    
    BTW. I have a "Focus on Alfa Romeo" report from CLASSIC car magazine's
    Decmeber 1983 issue. It covers the ALFA history plus old and current
    vehicles and lots more. Put it this way CLASSIC car went to town on
    this 21 page report which includes some loverlee photos. Let me know
    if you want a copy of this rather collectable piece.
    
    JN.

    On my days of I will be trying to find out the problem,and I'II
    let you know what happens.When driving at seventy or so the temp
    gauge is in the middle of the scale and the oil gauge is I think
    about 70/80 psi I have no hand-book so can't check it.
    
                                   Cheers Andy.
       

    I saw a left hand drive S.Z. in SGT Performance Cars at Maidenhead on
    Tuesday. What a weird-looking car! Do these things go or are they built
    for posing outside the pub on a Sunday afternoon? It looked like it
    would ground itself on most sleeping policemen!
    
    Barry.

    
    How dare you.!
    
    The ALFA ROMEO SZ COUPE was launched in April 1989.
    
    The basic spec is as follows :::
    
    V6  3 litre fuel injected engine. Same engine as 164 but tuned
    slightly.
    
    Top speed 152 MPH. 0 - 60 in 7 seconds.
    
    Leather upholstery and air conditioning standard.
    
    Only available in RED.
    
    Only available in LEFT hand drive form, from the factory. I do not
    know if there is a third party conversion. I seriously doubt it very 
    much.
    
    Factory price �44,000.
    
    Hand built at 2 or 3 a month.
    
    Orders were taken at the cars launch and then swapped hands like 
    betting tickets. One chap paid �80,000 for another chaps order
    before the car had even left Italy.
    
    There are only a few in the UK, very few of which are in private hands.
    
    They can be bought privately for about �60,000.
    
    JN.

    
    
    
                                                                 
    It may look odd, but I've grown to like it. Its not a pretty car,
    but it does have a real presence. Grounding isn't the problem it
    might appear, as it has electrically controlled ride height with
    two modes (max pose and normal, if you like). The lower setting
    is really for smooth road and circuit use - reports claim that
    the car will pull over 1.3 lateral G. The higher setting doesn't
    affect the car's road manners, but stops it grounding cross country.
                                                                 
    William.

>>    It may look odd, but I've grown to like it. Its not a pretty car,
    
    Which is why it's been named "Il Monstro"...
    
    The local Alfa dealer down here often has one outside (not for sale).
    
    I'd love one.
    
    J.R.

    
    re: .126
    
    "Il Mostro" actually.
    
    I saw one at Badminton in July '90, when the EuroTrophaeum visited
    Bath.
    
    Did any other Alfisti reading this conference get there that day.
    
    An absolutely FANTASTIC array of Alfas there, of all types and ages,
    including a display of Jano 6C and 8C machine from the Alfa Register of
    the VSCC. My absolute favouite was an 8C2600 Monza, in beutiful
    condition (apparently raced regularly). Oddities included a 1950'ish
    6C2500 'Ministrale' a HUGE 8 seater open car used to carry ministers
    round Rome, and 2 Polizia cars, one a 75V6 and the other a Giulia 
    Berlina (both crewed by real Italian police!).
    
    In all I counted over 300 Alfas, I am sure I missed some!
    
    Mike H.
    
    

    
      I have now investigated the leaks etc on my gtv,and have found that
      the head gasket is gone and that is not covered in the useless 
      warranty.
      I've been quoted 150+vat for a gasket set alone,and completly seal
      the engine costing only 650+vat from the dealers.
      I've told them to get stuffed and I'II get someone else to do it,and
      fortunately I've found someone local.He is looking at it this week
      so I should know the worst soon.
    
      A different problem now,my wife has an Audi 80 coupe with 90,000
      miles on the clock.When the car turns a left hand corner[all the 
      weight goes onto the front drivers side wheel]there is a knock
      just the once not continuous.I've replaced the bottom ball/joint
      and there's no play on the wheel top and bottom and left to right
      and my pocket is limited  because of the gtv.
    
    
                                     Cheers Andy.
      
     

>               <<< Note 557.128 by KURMA::AMCKAY "Andy Pandy" >>>

Your CV joint has had it.

>>      I've been quoted 150+vat for a gasket set alone,and completly seal
>>      the engine costing only 650+vat from the dealers.
    
    'Completely seal the engine' - what do you mean - just the gasket swap ?
    
    Re price of gasket set
    
    Try E.B.Spares for a better price.  If you are having the work done
    by someone other than an Alfa Dealer (a *much* cheaper option, usually)
    they are quite likely to get their spares from this source...
    
    
    BTW, I have been told that the left-hand head (from the drivers seat)
    is a real bu**er to remove, since it involves dismantling the brake
    servo, which is also hard to get at, requiring removal of dash trim etc.
    
    J.R.

Well, I've seen two Alfas here in France recently that I wouldn't have
recognised as Alfas if I hadn't been stuck behind one of them and seen the
badge on the back.

They are probably from the 60s or 70s, and look a bit like the Datsun
Z240 (is that the name). A sort of 2+2 sports coupe, with quite a long
bonnet ...

Any idea which Alfa it is ???

    
    RE -1.
    
    Could have been a GUILIETTA SPRINT SPECIALE. They have headlights
    that sort of stick out and the middle of the grill comes to a point
    where the badge is.
    
    Along the Guilietta theme it could also have been a Berlina, Sprint
    Veloce or the Sprint Zegato.
    
    Any other ideas.
    
    JN.
    
    

It wasn't a Zegato. The bonnet did come to a sort of point where the badge
is, but I don't remember the sticking out headlights.

The back panel was sort of oval and flat, with Alfa written on the right
hand side, but no indication of type ...

    Is there a Haynes Manual or something similar available for the Spyder
    
    ????
    
    (preferably including spec differences between U.S. & European cars..)
    
    K.
    

    RE: 131 
    
    Could be the Montreal.

Could be. 

Being that I am also considering buying a 60's Alfa at some stage,
can anyone recommend a good book (with photos) which can give me
some info on Alfas, and that might help me identify the one I saw ???

I decided to share with other ALFA owners my feelings about my car.

First of all the decision of buying the car was perhaps one of the most 
difficult ones. I discovered there are two distinct types of people. Those 
who love ALFAs and the others who say there are only two good moments 
with an ALFA. The moment one buys the car and the moment one 
gets rid of it!...

Most of the people say the cars are unreliable and even the magazines 
don't pay much attention to the cars. This varies with the nationality 
of the magazine. Some just ignore them. On the other hand there are 
other people (owners) who say things like "Only those who don't have an
ALFA hate them". 

The desire of owning a ALFA started the moment a friend of mine bought 
one and I had the opportunity to see and experience the kind of drive
of these cars. The first was a Giulleta and the the last one a 1.5 33.

My head and colleagues were saying I should buy a GOLF or ASTRA. But I 
soon discovered the ALFA I wanted (33 1.5 I.E.) was cheaper, had more 
power (98 BHP), was delivered with a standard PAS, 5 alloy wheels, 
electric windows, central locking and velvet seats. I also think 
that ALFAs are very good looking.   

So, after a lot of thinking I decided for the ALFA. I got a 7% discount, 
and bought a red 33. It was cheaper than a four door CL golf. The dealer 
was kind enough to change the tires at my request. The car was fitted 
with NCTs and I asked for the MXV2. Pirelli was also an option. The interior 
of the car looks a bit out of date, but it's pleasant. One of things 
that was criticized by car mags and noters was the driving position.
I had no problems to find a comfortable position (the steering wheel
is adjustable). The room inside the car isn't comparable with a TIPO, but
4 adults can find plenty of room.  

So far I have covered 2400km and I enjoyed every moment... The sound of 
the BOXER engine is just great. The car is fitted with a JETRONIC injection 
system and because of that (my opinion) the engine sound is different from the 
carb version. The engine revs quite easily and it was hard not to push 
the car. The box is probably one of its "weak" points. One has to be very 
gentle with the first gear and reverse. The kind of performance the
car delivers is above average, I think. The PAS is also adequate. The car is
going for its first service today. Among three or four minor details, I hope
to see corrected, there is one that is upsetting me a bit. A noise every time
I depress the clutch with the box in neutral position. The dealer said this 
noise was normal and that would be diminished after the service.  

Two other negative things. Someone bumped against the rear left door of 
the car leaving a strong mark and no notice, and the front badge was stolen.

This reply is already too long... I'll post any more details if anyone is 
interested (which I doubt ;-))

RUI
                

    re .136
    
    "Illustrated Alfa Romeo Buyer's Guide" published by Motorbooks should
    be a good reference.  Of course there are many other good publications
    about the marque.

    re .134
    
    "Alfa Romeo Giulia 1962-78" by Motor Books is the workshop guide for
    for all Giulia sedan, coupe and spiders of the stated period.
     

    
    re .91
    
    Heard that UK will get AR 155 (2.0 TS and 2.5 V6 only) by June '92.  I
    expect to see the cars in Singapore around the same time.
    
    Has anyone seen the actual cars (LHD) anywhere in Europe yet?
    
    The press seems to be fairly impressed by the new cars, particularly
    the one with V6 engine.  Looked like Alfa has a good replacement for AR
    75.

    
    re: .140
    
    I was passed by a 155 on Thursday last on the E40 westbound near Gent.
    
    Unfortunately it was dark, so by the time I had realised what it was I
    couldn't see any detail. 
    It was quite distinctive tho' and looked quite nice.
    
    Mike H.
    

    This morning I got my car back from the garage, having had some
    much-needed work done to the engine, plus a service.
    
    It is once more a GTV6 and not the GTV5 that it was when it went in...
    
    Having been driving my [wife's] Manta GT/E, it is really good to get
    back to a *decent* car.  The engine sounds just wonderful,  I even
    drove to work with the stereo off so I could hear it.   :-)
    
    Goes back next week to re-torque the head, and to have a pair of
    Koni's fitted to the front (the current shocks are 'shot', which
    I find very apparent, coming from the Manta - which corners better
    than the Alfa at the moment).
    
    I also had a pair of Advan (Yokohama) A008's fitted to the rear,
    since the old tyres (P6s) were well past their best (and never as good
    as Yoko's anyway).  I went from 195/60 section to 205/55 and the
    grip now is *very much* better - at the rear.  The front tyres will
    have to be replaced soon (when I've paid for current bills), but
    handling will benefit from the shock change planned for next week.
    
    J.R.

Well, I made it to Goodwood last Sunday for an A.R.O.C. 'Practice Day'.

Had a bit of trouble finding the place, as I assumed I would get there
by following signs for 'Goodwood'.  These got me to the racetrack alright,
the one used by horses !  Knowing it was definitely in that area, I
drove around until I spotted a sign for the aerodrome.  That was what
I wanted and I soon got to the right place...

First, the formalities involved signing-on and paying the day's fee (40 quid).
Then some scrutineering, basically checking that the vehicle is sound, and
that the driver has a legal crash helmet and flameproof overalls.  Since I
don't own any of these, a hire scheme was available at the completely
reasonable fee of 1 pound - for use of new overalls for the day.
Between sign-on and scrutineering I got the chance to drive around the
circuit, which I found *extremely* helpful, as I had no idea of what
bends there were, which way they went, or anything else about the track.

The running of the day was along the lines of a 'sprint', but due to the
use of road cars the event is non-competitive.  Times are taken for the
cars, but are not published, to keep within RAC (MSA) requirements.
Four cars at a time line up at the start, each being started a number
of seconds after the previous car.  The driver then has three continuous
laps, for which the total time is recorded, plus a 'slowing-down' lap
to allow the car to return to the paddock.  Once all four cars have crossed
the line and are on their finishing lap, the next four cars come out to
the start line.  This was all managed quite well, with the plan being for
each driver to get two morning sessions and two, or more, in the afternoon.

Soon enough, my car is in the next batch to go out, I get my overalls and
get all kitted out, then am pointed to the start line.  This is the time
for nerves to start working overtime !  Lined up on the 'grid' were two
GT Juniors, an Alfasud and my GTV6.  I was to be second away (the Sud was
to go first), and am sitting there feeling more and more tense.  It really
is a strange (unfamiliar) feeling to be in a car with crash helmet, overalls
and gloves ready to rush off on a race track.  Nerves, nerves, nerves.

The Sud is flagged away, with plenty of revs and wheelspin.  The start
marshal comes to my car, waits for the Sud to get near the first bend and
then counts down for my start.  Three,  rev the engine a bit. Two, rev it
a bit more, getting ready to make the getaway.  One and I lift the clutch,
maintaining decent revs, but not too many as I don't want to bother with
wheelspin off the line.  Quite quickly I change into second, without
reaching the red line in first.  I get the customary scrunch of the
gears (Wot, no synchro ?) and am moving up the track and up through
the gears.  Going reasonably quickly in fourth gear as I approach the
first bend.  Now, how sharp was this bend ?  I brake and turn the first
part of the bend, then decide to take a different sort of line for the
rest of this corner, knowing that it consisted of more than one actual
bend, but not knowing where I should be on the track.  I can see a part
of the inner kerbing painted in white, so guess that should be used as
the apex of the bend.  Brake a bit harder, change down and settle the
car into the corner.  I get to the white kerbing and try to work out
how much more of a bend there is along here.  Then I notice the final
section of the corner has another white-painted kerb.  Seems that I
should probably make a line that uses the two kerbs as apexes, with
the car going wide in between them.  Who knows ?

Coming out of this set of bends, change up a gear, then wonder where the
track goes next.  There is a marker board coming up, but I can't be sure
if it is a right or a left-hand bend.  Oh well, head for the centre of
the track until I can make it out.  Looks like a left, so I move to the
right, oh no, it is a right hand bend, change sides again.  Have a guess
at where the apex may be, get through that bend, then yet again wonder
what comes next !  A little bit further round is a bend which seems quite
sharp.  Lots of black marks where people have obviously got it wrong, I
hope that I'm not going to.  Brake and change back down to third for this,
yank the car through the bend, then try to line up for the next corner which
goes the other way.  Another bend coming up, which changes line into another
bend, also forming one long corner.  Out of this one, which has a lot of
gravel on the track (but off the 'racing line', if I can tell what that is)
and it is a fast straight.  A slight kink on this part of the track poses
no problems in fourth gear, then it approaches yet another double bend,
where the proper line would make a single corner out of it, and then
up to the chicane.  Ah, the chicane should be easy to deal with.  Fly up
to it, positioned on the left of the track, brake, change down to third,
brake some more, heel and toe down to second (scrunch goes the gearbox),
then fling the car right, unsettling the rear.  Get a line near the
right hand cone and then switch the attitude of the car the other way
to come out of the chicane and back across the start line, through the
gears up the main straight.

Well, that was the first lap over, the car ahead of me is out of sight,
but the car which started behind me had certainly got closer to me.
Whatever, another two laps to go and I try to concentrate on remebering
where the corners are, trying to drive smoother on the fast bends and
not worrying about the car behind (it was not a race, after all).
On the third time through the complex of bends that made of the first
corner, I got to feeling a bit brave.  I turned the car in without
slowing down so much as before, the line appeared great, near the first
white kerb.  The corner continued round, with the car still keeping on
the right sort of radius but going wide.  Without changing the attitude
of the car, the steering started to get really light around the middle
of this bend.  Rather than do anything drastic, I just let the car stay
on this trajectory (since it didn't feel as if it would tighten it's line
even if I had tried to do so) and sure enough it came back across the
track to the second white kerb, giving me quite a high speed on the
way out of the bend.  This may have been about the right line for this
bend (but if anyone does know better, can you please explain) but I did
feel that the car would not have coped with the corner any quicker than
this, without involving a lot more effort/skill/bravery/risk from the
driver.  Subsequent laps I went for the same sort of line, but at a
slower entry speed.  It didn't get me out any quicker, but it did leave
me a better margin for error.

When my wife (spectating) commented that at the chicane, it looked as
though I wasn't going to turn at all, with really late braking, I made
an effort to try driving that complex in a much smoother fashion, which
even left me time to accelerate between the bends.  As a result, the car
would actually drift wider on the exit, with me letting the wheels get
up to the kerbing, but it didn't feel so good.  This particular style I
would put down to the fact that I am a rally-person at heart, and not
a racer.  Hence almost everything I have read, watched and discussed on
driving technique tends to depend on 'unsettling' the car to allow for
much quicker changes in direction (as you would want in a chicane).
Of course, most people also know than any sort of sideways action is
likely to be much slower (on a racetrack) than a smooth high speed line.


So, that's enough to bore you with what I felt it was like to drive the circuit.

I would recommend it to anyone, to go with their owners club for a 'play' on
a race circuit, just to see what it is like.  I'll definitely go back again...

Other info - my times for three laps went down in the first three sessions,
but went up on the last (maybe because I was braking more severely, but as
I result I usually cornered at too slow a speed).  The circuit is about
2.3 or 2.4 miles long, the times were taken from a standing start (which
I generally did quite gently, as my gearbox doesn't like abuse), and
were stopped as the car crossed the line at the end of the third lap.
I found that my top speed on the track was about 110mph, but that I did
go through some of the corners in excess of 80mph (plus the kink taken
'flat out', but that was after another bend anyway).  My times were :-

	1st session	6 mins, 11 seconds, 86

	2nd session	5 mins, 59 seconds, 36

	3rd session	5 mins, 44 seconds, 17

	4th session	5 mins, 51 seconds, 01

Other cars on the day (besides *loads* of Alfasuds) included a Golf Gti
(Mk2), which I was quicker than - note that the Suds were often quicker
than me...  A Ferrari Dino - didn't get the times, but it was treated
*ever so* gently on the track... A Cobra replica, with a Rover V8.  This
had lots of trouble getting the power down, and also spun on approach to
the chicane.  There were a few Fiat Stradas, including some race-prepared
models, a rally Opel Kadett GT/E, some Alfa Spiders, a few GT Juniors, a
V6 Alfa 75 (which was driven rather quickly), a single GTV 2000 (which
broke down on the track), a Lancia Beta HPE (which cruised the track in
first gear after screeching off the line and having a gearchange problem)
and two other GTV6s.  Of these, one was race prepared and the other had
been built up with a Cosworth gearbox (no synchro problems) and a 2.5 litre
V6 fitted with a row of three downdraught carburettors (sounded great).
Oh, I almost forgot, a race Renault 5GT Turbo and a Frogeye Sprite...

All in all, a very enjoyable day.  The sun shone and I managed to drive
my own car home undamaged.  Things don't get much better (but the cars do).

J.R.

    When I read note 1784.0 about places to go, I thought about Alfa
    Romeo's magnificient museum at Arese, close to Milan.
    
    In the five-storey modern building, about 100 different models which
    Alfa have built over the last 80 years as prototype or production cars
    are displayed.  Admission is free, but you must make an appointment by
    writing to (or telephone) the museum office.
    
    I visited the museum several years back, and thoroughly enjoyed that
    'pilgrimage'.
    
    

    
    National Alfa day is this Sunday at Stanford Hall between
    Lutterworth and Coventry.
    
    Over 2000 people plus about 800 Alfas were present last year. 
    Nice location plus many trade stalls for those elusive bits
    at cheap prices. Cars for sale plus this year they hope 
    to bring along the new Alfa 155.
    
    JN.

    Judging from the progress of this section of notes file dedicated to
    ALFA, I can savely say that there aren't that many followers of the
    marque out there.  Or have I drawn a wrong conclusion?
    
    Anyway, would any of you own the new 1.7l A33 sportswagon care to share
    your experience with this particular car?
    
    Regards,
    G.G.

�    Judging from the progress of this section of notes file dedicated to
�    ALFA, I can savely say that there aren't that many followers of the
�    marque out there.  Or have I drawn a wrong conclusion?
    
    It certainly seems that there aren't too many 'Alfisti' in Notes.
    
    I've not got much to say about my GTV6 at present, other than that
    it needs new pistons and liners sometime.
    
    I'll probably take it back to Goodwood for a thrash on the next
    club practice day in September.  Dunno if I'll do the engine before
    then (it'll need to be run in if I do), or after (which may be too
    late if something lets go !).  At least my times should improve if
    I do get the engine work done soon enough - but the Stratos kit
    (which will have 3.0 Alfa V6 power) has first claim on my dosh...
    
    J.R.

    I am coming to the end of my three year term with a 75TS and have
    enjoyed the driving of it no end. After 15k miles or so the engine
    started to loosen and now, after 35k it is a dream. However, I can't
    take much more in the way of bent-leg driving style and detaching bits
    of car, so I'm deserting to a BMW 318is. The style of the new 155
    hasn't helped matters.
    
    Still its been fun while it lasted.
    
    Paul

    I knew I was wrong in saying that there aren't many ALFA followers out
    there :-)
    
    GTV6 is one car which I would like to own after my experience with
    GUILIA GTV, SUD TI, A33, 75TS and 164TS.
    
    In certain way, I regret about buying the TS version of 164.  But at
    that point in time, I was concerned about having to pay for much higher
    road tax and motor insurance if I bought the 3.0V6 version.
    
    I am able to enjoy the 75TS after these 4 years of ownership.  Though I
    have been comtemplating to change that to another car such as the 155
    but I doubt I will ever get to do that.  Partly because I'm not
    impressed by its styling (which I agree with Mr Pateman in .148). 
    Partly because I'm looking for a stationwagon instead of of a saloon
    now.

    
    Re.146
    
    Some of us are still here, ref .4 and .9, but we just moved on to
    better things .......

    re-1
    
    Alfa is not exactly everyone's cup of tea.  Either you grow to like it
    or hate it.  I presume the later could be true for you.
    

    
    Autorcar & Motor gave Alfa 155 (2.5 V6) an overall rating of two stars
    (out of five) :-(
    
    Looks like Alfa Romeo/FIAT couldn't keep up with the A164 success.
    
    Anyway, has anyone seen or driven one yet?  Would you agree with the
    poor rating?
    

    
    Alfa was planning to introduce a face-lifted version of 3.0litre 164s
    which likely to be renamed as A166.  Has anyone heard about its
    schedules yet?  Please advise.
    

    I recall that an earlier reply in here mentioned that someone was
    fitting a gearbox from an Alfa 75 into their GTV6 (but I haven't
    looked back to find out who/when).  Was that ever done ?
    If so, what problems were encountered (if any) ?
    
    On the subject of the rear gearbox/transaxle in the Alfa 75,
    does it have synchromesh that lasts more than a year ?
    
    Is the gearchange any better than on the GTV6 (if any different) ?
    
    J.R.

    
    I'm usually a read-only noter but since there's probably very little
    Alfa 75 experience out there I'll give you my views.
    I've had an Alfa 75 Twin Spark as my company car here (Portugal) for
    the last 2 years. I would say the most irritating problem has been the
    gearchange (my tennis elbow has definitely got worse). From new it has
    been intermittently very difficult to engage 1st and reverse and 2nd is
    guaranteed to "snick" on all but the slowest gearchanges. I've driven
    one or two other 75's as replacements during services and irrespective
    of mileage the problem is the same. I'm not convinced the synchro wears
    out - I believe it is just poor from day 1.
    Needless to say, I'm returning to BMW this time.
    
    Rgds John

    
    I'm amazed at the price of the 164 in Germany compared to UK, eg. 
    
    	Twin Spark - less than 13,500 sterling
    	V6         - less than 17,250    "
    	Cloverleaf - less than 20,000    "
    
    Does anybody have any info on 164s (like reliability!!, performance..
    etc.), and do you think the low prices might be due to the up-coming 166??
    Is the 166 going to be more expensive? 
    
    Cheers, Al.

    Basically, all versions of the 164 appear to be 'good cars', until
    you look at their resale value.  Being Italian, they depreciate fast !
    
    I'd quite like one, but they are front-wheel-drive, not my preference.
    
    As for the newer model, I think that is now going to keep the 164 title,
    as it is something of a facelift exercise anyway.  I doubt that Alfa
    would drop the price of 164s in the light of a new model on the horizon.
    When the 155 was on the way, dealers kept *very* quiet about it, in the
    hope that some people would still buy the 75 which they still had...
    
    J.R.

    
    The dealer here quoted 3 months delivery for a 164 with the options I 
    wanted - he didn't mention the new 164S (or 166). I wonder what I'd get 
    if I took him up on the offer - old or new? By November I would have
    thought the dealers would have the new ones in the showroom, I'd be a
    bit p****d off if I got an old one. I think I'll hang on for a couple
    of months...

    	I have an early Alfa Duetto.  I restored it to near show room (the
    appraiser said I needed Itailan Leather and wool carpets).  Since doing
    all the work 5 years ago I had my first problem this summer.  The "Lock
    Plate" broke on the exhaust cam and allow the cam to wonder.  As far I
    can tell Alfa has NEVER had strong gear boxes.  The 2nd gear synchros
    are a weak link in the earlt alfas and from what I read it only
    continues.  In the US they did not import dual spark (except in early
    GT Juniors?) but I can imagine the added performance.  Can anyone give
    me the going price for an earky 67 Duetto( original Dunlop brakes) in
    Europe?

    re -1
    
    I doubt you will get the new model by Nov.
    
    The new 164 Super will be officially launched during the Paris Show in
    mid-October.  I heard it will only be available in December for UK
    market.
    
    Also, the 3 litre V6 will be 4-valve/cylinder and produce
    230bhp. Headlamps will be same as the 155s.  Likely the new model will
    cost more.
    
    Speaking of the 155s, I was impressed by its press kit.  All the
    detailed specs and photos of the whole range, plus write-up in the
    various PC and MAC word processing format readys to be used by the
    press people.  This is something our Marketing people could learn a
    thing or two about communications to the press.

    As already mentioned, I went to Goodwood this Sunday for an AROC
    'Practice Day'.  Run on similar lines to a sprint, with four cars
    on the track at a time.  Each is started with a 10-second gap to the
    next, timed from the start-line to the end of the third lap.  The
    fourth lap is for slowing down (well, at least the last bit is ;-).
    
    I went to this track for the same sort of event earlier in the
    year (March, I think).  There is a note in here describing how
    I got on then.  My best time for the standing lap plus two flying
    laps was 5 mins, 44 seconds (track length 2.4 miles I believe).
    
    Back then, my engine was smoking badly, the front tyres were none
    too good (although plenty of legal tread left, old P6s don't come
    very high in my estimation), gearbox synchro not at all good, and
    I didn't know the shape of the track at all.
    
    This time, I found that there was one 'map' of the track displayed
    on the wall at the tunnel entrance on the way in, with another on
    the side of a portakabin near the 'paddock' area.  Just seeing a
    picture of the track layout is a major benefit...
    
    The engine on the car had recently been re-built, so should be
    putting about much better power figures (with an absence of smoke),
    plus I had just put a pair of Yokohama tyres (A008) on the front.
    
    As the weather was dry (which it was last time), I was looking forward
    to seeing how much I could improve my times - with a better car and
    with experience mounting on each lap.
    
    First time out, my group of cars consisted of my GTV6, a Lotus Elan SE,
    a lovely-looking (blue) Ferrari 328 GTB and [I seem to recall] a Sud.
    
    The start-line marshal chooses the order so that the fastest car goes
    first, down to the slowest being last, with the intention being that
    no overtaking is required in the three laps that follow.  For the first
    session, they have to guess which cars may be faster than others, which
    is generally quite obvious.  In another of the groups there was an
    immaculate GTV6 which had lowered, stiffend suspension, special set of
    wheels and tyres for track use and an engine running high-lift cams.
    That upset the form book and overtook the two cars that were set off
    before it from the start-line.
    
    Anyway, my first session was led off by the Ferrari, then the Elan,
    followed my GTV6 and then the Alfasud.  The 'reverse handicapping'
    was correct on this run, with no catching up or overtaking to worry
    about.  I enjoyed myself, taking the first lap to get 'into the flow'
    and then pushing the car quite hard - for a time of 5 mins 36 seconds.
    
    That was already better than my fastest time from my previous visit.
    
    My next session came around after a while, when the group had the
    Ferrari first off the line, with me in second slot, plus two other
    cars after that (both of which were of lesser performance).
    
    So, sitting in the car, I watched (and listened to :-) the Ferrari
    take off down the straight.  Then it was my turn, counted down and
    OFF WE GO.  Scrunch the gearbox into second (that hasn't been fixed),
    up the straight, into third, then fourth gear.  Approaching the kink
    before the large pair of bends at the end of the straight, brake - not
    too hard - change down to third, turn gently through the kink, then
    get the line right for the next two bends to be taken together, drift
    across the track after first apex, start going wider, power on, same
    steering angle, come in across the next apex, then out to the far side
    of the track on the way out.  Don't fight it, let the car use all the
    road, change up to fourth again, keeping to the left for the next right
    hander which is taken with just a slight lift before turning, then
    across the track towards marker board for yet another right hander.
    
    Brake hard for this one, change down, turn in, try to get the right
    apex and avoid going too wide on the exit, in readiness for the next
    bend, which is a left-hander, change up to fourth, then brake and
    change down again - braking quite hard here - before pulling the car
    over to the apex of the left bend.  Power on through the bend and
    up to fourth at exit, get the line right for the next two bends,
    both right handers, again to be taken as one bend.  Slide a bit too
    much on the first of these two bends, carry on with full throttle to
    maintain line I want through the next part, onto a fair straight.
    Past a slight left kink, reaching 6000 rpm in fourth, coming up to
    a pair of slower right-hand bends and then the chicane.  Doing over
    100 mph, it still seems a long time to the right handers.
    
    Keep the power on until I think "I really SHOULD be braking now", then
    hold off a bit longer.  Onto the brakes really hard, changing down the
    gears, car not too stable, ease off the brakes and set the car up for
    the first bend of this pair.  Through the bend, too fast for the next
    half, so brake in a straight line, choose the line for the next bend,
    turn in, drift wide to the kerbs with the power on.  Then the right/left
    chicane is looming up.  At [seemingly] the last moment, slam on the
    brakes, scrub off a lot of speed, snatch second gear (big double-declutch
    but still graunches quite often here), sling the car right, so the
    back end swings out.  When the front points the right way through the
    chicane, power on for a quick burst, then swing the car back the other
    way, trying to get the back around the cones without understeering too
    much on the way.  Ride up onto the kerbs, snatch third gear when the
    engine rev-limiter comes into play (think, must try third gear there).
    
    Onto the main straight, past my wife (quick, give a wave and a grin !)
    across the start-finish line, up through the gears to the end of the
    straight, then through all those bends again.  Hey, I look a bit closer
    to the Ferrari now than I did on the first lap !!!  Concentrate, try to
    keep a smooth line, use all the road, power on as much as possible...
    
    After the sequence of bends to the back straight I am definitely nearer
    to him.  Reach the back straight and he makes some distance on me, but
    then I gain again through the bends and the chicane, losing out some
    of that on the main straight again.  Avoid knocking too much speed off
    under braking for the bends, I get closer still.  He must have seen me
    now, his car is moving about a bit on the bends, he's trying harder now.
    
    I can definitely get through the corners quicker than him (I do only
    have to worry about a couple of thousand pounds value - if you don't
    consider the safety aspect), but obviously cannot touch the Ferrari
    when he gets onto the straights.  During the final lap I get the
    feeling that I could actually close right up on to him if I had
    'just one more' lap to do it in.  Having a car (especially that sort
    of car) ahead of you really gives you that extra push.
    
    Anyway, I crossed the line not all that far behind him, with a grin
    that split my face from ear to ear  :-)  Then I realised that we had
    almost one full lap remaining, I had eased off and noticed that he
    had not (why not, it is another paid-for lap ?), so I tried to get
    back up to him.  I didn't manage that, but it was GREAT FUN...
    
    My time for that session was 5 minutes, 27 seconds.
    
    The next session for us both came around after lunch, when I was set
    off first, with the Ferrari second !!! (as I had set a faster time  :-)
    
    This time, I had to use my mirrors as he certainly tried harder and
    made up some time, whereas I tried too hard and lost speed through
    sliding in many of the bends.  I tried using third in the chicane,
    which meant that handling was totally different under [less] power.
    I went into fifth on both of the straights, took nearly all of the
    bends (other than slow ones/chicane) in fourth gear.  In all of this,
    he closed on me, but didn't get within the same distance that I had
    when following him.  My time for that session - 5 mins 31 seconds.
    Trying too hard had cost me time.  I wasn't so smooth and it showed.
    The Ferrari driver then ended up going before me on out next session...
    
    My final session put up a time of 5 mins 31 seconds, with the Ferrari
    going faster still (as it should).  I was amazed at the number of
    people that had noticed by 'battle' in the second session, as lots of
    comments were made as to 'I saw you catching the Ferrari', 'What engine
    have you got in there?', 'Those tyres good?'...  It made my day :-) :-) :-)
    
    I was on the 'grid' for a fifth session just a few minutes before the
    end of the day (track closes at 5pm) waiting for the previous group to
    finish their winding-down lap only to be told that there was a delay
    as a car had gone off.  Then, we were informed that it would be a long
    delay, the car could not be moved easily (the driver was unhurt).
    
    Unfortunately, this put the time after 5 o'clock, so I could not get
    a fifth run (after I had psyched myself up to drive as smoothly as
    possible to try and get a better time still).
    
    Still, I got to drive my car home in one piece.  The wreck was towed
    back around the track (which most people, myself included, waited to see)
    and it looked very bad.  It was the once-immaculate GTV6, which now had
    a boot that started by the near-side rear wheel and went in a triangle
    across to a point somewhat closer in than the rear quarter used to be.
    The wheel/suspension was bent, all of the rear end was wrecked and the
    front panel/wing/bumper were also smacked up.  A very sorry sight.
    
    I did consider offering money for the parts I required, but decided
    that the owner might not have appreciated that at the time  ;-)
    
    No idea when the next track day will be (next year sometime), but I
    will be sure to go back again.  Certainly recommended.
    
    J.R.
    
    PS I think that the Ferrari set his best time of 5 mins, 14 seconds...

    How much did that cost you then ??
    
    Barry
    

�    How much did that cost you then ??
    
    Besides membership of the AROC, it cost forty pounds, plus another
    fiver for the RAC MSA for non-holders of RAC Competition Licences.
    
    Apparently, fifteen pounds of that entry fee goes to the RAC, who
    have to have an official at the circuit to oversee the event.
    
    Other points from the day :-
    
    	An Alfa SZ turned up and went out on two sessions.
    	Love it or hate it, the looks are 'something else'.
    	It appeared to be going really quick round the back bends
    	and out of the chicane (but couldn't break the 5 minute time).
    
    	The fastest time recorded by each driver gets listed in the club
    	mag when the report is printed.  I compared mine with those from
    	the last event and I came out really well.  Then again, it could
    	be that there were a lot of faster drivers there this time, so I
    	may not show so well.  (Note, this is not competition - but it
    	certainly involves a lot of competitive rivalry...
    
    	One of the guys there (a mechanic with his own business) had an
    	Alfasud he bought for 75 pounds, 9 months ago.  It's still going.
    	He goes to a lot of these type of events.  When at Snetterton, he
    	took along a spare engine 'just in case'.  He ended up having to do
    	an engine swap at the circuit to be able to drive back home again :-)
    
    	Ken Bell (who I use for servicing work) was there with two of his
    	mechanics.  They have just got a Sud with which one of them will race
    	next year.  One of the mechanics shared the drive of the racer with
    	Ken (who had never tried this sort of event before), the other was
    	playing around in his own Sud Ti.  They had plenty of fun, with the
    	racer being spun by Ken and Adrian (the mechanic).  No damage though.
    
    	Ken will have his name on three different Alfasuds racing next year,
    	with a chance that I may be able to get some form of 'sponsorship'
    	in the way of discount for parts on the Stratos kit if I put his
    	name on the outside (as I intend doing some form of competition).
    
    J.R.

    .161�    My time for that session was 5 minutes, 27 seconds.
    
    Congratulations. Very interesting report.
    
    Have you had a chance to lap with just yourself on the track ? I always
    find that concentration is better when alone on the track.

�    Have you had a chance to lap with just yourself on the track ? I always
�    find that concentration is better when alone on the track.
    
    Thanks for comment, Patrick.  I haven't had a chance to 'play' on a
    track with no other cars around.  I would like the opportunity to
    try something like 6 or 10 laps in a row.  That way, I think I would
    be more able to work out the best line to use, correct gear, etc.
    
    With just 3+1 laps at a time, you are just getting into it and have to
    stop.  There is then a considerable delay before you go out again.
    
    Makes you think about the difficulties of doing a hillclimb...
    
    Something I intend to do when I get the Stratos Replica together.
    
    J.R.

    Hi, I'm contemplating a trip to London in the near future.  And I hope to
    be able to take a good look at the Alfa 155, particularly the 2.5 V6
    model.
    
    Could some one please point me to one or two place in London, or not
    too far out, where I can do that?
    
    Regards,
    GG

    Re: .166
    
    I recently bought a second hand Alfa 164 from Ramponi Rockell in
    Lancaster Mews, on the North side of Hyde Park. It's broken down twice
    in the first 500 miles but that's another story (which I may tell in
    here, if I get the time). Phone number: 071 262 7383.
    
    You could also try the Lombarda Carriage co. - 01 (?) 243 0636. I have
    never been to this one.
    
    The 155 has not proved very popular in the motoring press coming out
    very low in a number of recent back-to-backs. You can get a good deal
    on the 75 at the moment - with the V6 again. Last of the rear wheel
    drive Alfas too.
    

     FOR SALE.     Alfa GTV 6, red, in very good condition with
                   an alfa fitted sunroof and a new r/cass.
                   It has one years MOT with good tyres on alloy
                   wheels.
                   The interior is in excellent condition with
                   an original dash board.The speedo being situated
                   behind the steering wheel and the rev counter etc
                   in the centre of the dash board.
                   The car is an X reg and has done 84 thousand miles,
                   at 83 thousand the engine was completely stripped,
                   and all new parts were fitted at a cost of �1000.
                   Receipts available.
    
                   Price �2700 ono but willing to haggle.
    
                   If you are interested phone 031 331 4413 after 
                   7:15pm                                
                   	

    According to the news, ALFA will be launching its face-lifted version
    of 164s next June.  Among the models to be available are 210bhp 164
    Super and 230 bhp Super Green Cloverleaf.  These are 24-valve and
    quad-cam 3 litres V6.  There will also be the 2 lite twin spark
    catalysed with only 143 bhp.
    
    What could be more exciting is the four-wheel drive 155 V6 homologation
    special in late 1993.  ALFA w homologate 2500 for racings such as the
    1994 British Touring Car Championship.
    
    There will even be a new Spider by 1994 Spring.

I recently purchased an ALFETTA SALOON. Its a 1985 model and is of
the Gold Cloverleaf variety which is to say it has a 2 litre fuel
injected engine which is controlled by a Motronic engine management
system.

The car needed some attention underneath as the gear box was making
contact with the undercarriage whenever the rear wheels went over
a pothole or cats eye. For those unfamiliar with the layout of the
running gear the gearbox/axle and clutch are over the rear wheels
as one unit.

I employed the services of a garage who specialise in ALFAs and the
following is the rather unhappy story of the past four weeks.


The first time the car went in was for the following after inspection.

o Clutch

o Front prop coupling

o Gear box seals

o Clutch slave cylinder

o "A" frame bush (de dion rear suspension)

o Gear box mounts

When I got the car back it was vibrating like crazy and it still felt
as if the gear box and prop was going to drop off. I only had the car
back for three days before taking it back for it to be sorted.

The only plus point was that as the "A" frame bush had been replaced
the gear box had stopped smacking the undercarriage every time I hit
a bump or cats eye in the road.

For the second visit to the garage the whole clutch assembly was sent
away to be balanced and the middle and rear prop couplings plus the 
prop center bearing were also replaced.

I also asked for the engine to be given a full service which was to 
include adjusting the valve clearences.

Anyway the car was there for two weeks almost but this was due mainly
to the delay in getting the clutch unit back. The car, and you won't
believe this, was actually worse than what it was before ANY work
whatsoever was undertaken. The vibration was still there, it still felt
as if the prop and gear box would drop off and the engine was as flat. 
I was so disgusted that I left with the car ASAP. 

What you need to bare in mind is that before any work was done at all
the engine, for example, was smooth and responsive and MPG was about
33 to the gallon. All that has been done to the engine is change the oil
and air cleaner element. He hasn't changed the plugs, leads, distrib cap
or the rotor arm. Apparently the valve clearences have been done but the 
engine sounds no different. The only problem with the engine before this 
was (maybe) a faulty injector and the cold start was a bit naff but now 
using the words of a guy I took it too last Wednesday its "Friar Tucked".

Basically the people I have spoken too and explained to them my dilemma
have not had anything positive to say about the work done on the car and
the guy whose services I employed to fix it. The garage is supposed to
specialise in ALFAs.

Most of the work done has been inspected and amongst other things there
are bolts and washers missing and the wrong bolts have been used on the 
prop shaft. If the garage in question didn't put these on then why did 
he not pick up on them in the first place ?

Also Eddi, the guy I saw on Wednesday, at present cannot understand what
has been done to shag the engine. The timing was set up at 26 degrees
before TDC and it should be seven. Now because the ignition is determined
by the Motronic engine managment system there is no adjustment on the timing.
I phoned Eddi today as the idea I had was that in order to adjust the shims
the cam shafts have to come out and its possible that they have gone back
in incorrectly by a tooth or two which has altered the valve timing. The
engine is the first thing he wants to sort out. The car will not be going
back to the original garage and there will also be discussion as to paying 
the bill.

What redress do I have from a legal point of view ? I know that the original
garage is aware of my opinion on the work done and I haven't received the
second bill yet. I should have had it by now.

Cheers,

JN.

    Glad to see you have avoided mentioning the name of the company in your
    note, P & P and all that...  (although with this sort of incident, it
    would seem that they deserve being pointed out)
    
    All a shame really, as the guy concerned is certainly both friendly
    and helpful and appears very knowledgeable on Alfa's (especially
    where Sud's and V6's are concerned, apparently not hot on twin-cams!)
    
    
    Anyhow, my comment is with regard the vibration that you mention.
    Is this being caused by the engine running very poorly, being of
    some sort of misfire, that carries the vibration through the
    transmission and driveline (note that prop-shaft is at engine speed) ?
    
    I do wonder if fixing the incorrect engine tuning might result in
    the vehicel running smoothly again.  Can you determine if the
    vibration is in the transaxle itself (perhaps by pressing the clutch
    pedal right down whilst travelling along) ?  This sort of investigation
    may help you determine which component(s) are at fault - driveshafts
    and/or final drive pinion, gearbox (any certain gears), clutch assembly,
    propshaft fittings, whatever...
    
    J.R.

    
    JR.
    
    In fact one of the most annoying things is that the chap in
    question is easy to talk to and is both pleasant and appears
    to know what he is talking about.
    
    Anyway, the vibration.
    
    Eddy, the chap who inspected the car last week is certain that 
    the vibration is being caused by the slight misfire in the engine.
    
    He has checked the prop and the gearbox and says that the vibration
    is coming from front to back. Having said that, once he has sorted
    the engine if the vibration remains then he will look elsewhere.
    
    After speaking with him for 1.5 hours I am certain he knows what he 
    is on about and his company have involvement with AROC. Another good
    thing is that he has a perfect example of the Gold Cloverleaf model
    which he will use to aide in his fault finding exercise on my car.
    
    I still have nagging doubts though as my confidence in garages et
    cetera has taken a severe knock. I always performed my own mechanical
    work but since owning ALFAs, especially the Alfetta, I choose to trust
    specialist attention, wrongly in the first instance I now believe.
    
    
    JN.

    
    Would anyone be able to tell me where I stand in this case
    with regard topating for the work done ?
    
    The first bill was �522 and I've paid �200 when I picked up
    the car. I have not yet received the second bill. Somehow I
    don't thing I will.
    
    Can I refuse to pay the remainder of the bill on the grounds
    of poor workmanship AND actually making the car worse ?
    
    Where do I stand.
    
    JN.

�    the car. I have not yet received the second bill. Somehow I
�    don't think I will.
    
    Jeff, I've no idea how you stand with regard non-payment, but
    you *may* receive the second bill through the post.  I do know
    that this company do not always send out bills promptly...
    
    Then again, they may hold it back due to your complaints.
    
    J.R.

    
    Today is my last day as a DEC employee. I am one of the
    unfortunate/fortunate who have been cut down to size.
    
    I would just like to say tutty bye to those that know me
    and those that don't. There have been some interesting
    discussions in this conference over the past 6 years 
    that I have enjoyed during my time with DEC.
    
    Mark Saxby. I cannot drive behind a car now without thinking
    of the discussion some months ago about you know what. 8-).
    
    Anyway take car everyone and may all of your motoring ailments
    be cured no matter what they are.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Jeff.

    
    Bye Jeff,
    
    Good luck and keep those blinds up! :^)
    
    Mark

    I was bored at lunchtime so I took a trip to the local Alfa garage to
    look at the new 164. The only one they had in was a dark metallic green
    V6 which looked very nice, apart from the alloy wheels it had on which 
    looked so much like wheel covers that I don't know why they bothered with 
    alloy at all. The car is much the same as the old one apart from :-
    - The power is up to 210bhp (230 for the cloverleaf)
    - It has better (and better looking) headlights
    - The facia is slightly nicer, the instruments have been re-arranged and
      the central mish-mash of buttons has been re-designed (supposedly to
      make them clearer, but I'd question that).
    - I don't think the V6 has as much standard equipment, I noticed the seats 
      didn't have electric adjustment - although the manual adjustment was
      very good, you don't have to fiddle about under the front of the
      seat - all the controls are at the side and include height adjustment.
    The price (in Germany) has stayed the same, which considering the power
    increase seems pretty good value (but, like I say, I think you loose
    some electrical goodies).
    I sat in it, and messed around with all the bits that would move
    without the aid of a key (until the salesman got annoyed), and it seems 
    very well put together. The plastic looks much better quality than the 
    previous model and the doors close with a nice 'clunk' sound.
    If I'm bored tomorrow lunch I'm off to annoy the Maserati salesman :^)
    Al.

    Chris Knott Insurance Alfa Romeo Championship Dates for this year :
    
    		March 6th		Silverstone
    		March 21st		Brands Hatch
    		April 12th		Mallory Park
    		May 3rd			Oulton Park
    		June 5th/6th		Donington GP
    		June 20th		Cadwell Park
    		July 18th		Brands Hatch
    		July 25th		Pembrey
    		August 7th		Castle Combe
    		August 30th		Snetterton
    		September 11th		Castle Combe
    		September 25th		Castle Combe
    		October 24th		Mallory Park
    
    J.R.

    An update on life with my GTV6.
    
    When I last had major work done on the engine, I was told that one, or
    more, of the injectors were blocked.  This was causing poor tickover.
    
    To take these out, have them checked/ultrasonically cleaned (?) would
    take up to one week.  Since I didn't wish to be without my car for
    that long, I put this off.
    
    Two weeks ago, I put the car in for a service.  Luckily for me, the
    garage had a write-off GTV6 for spare parts.  The injectors were taken
    from the engine in this car and checked/cleaned beforehand.  Then, when
    my car was serviced, these injectors were put into my car.
    
    The ones that came out were checked.  Two were giving a very poor fuel
    spray pattern.  A third was putting out hardly any fuel !
    
    A compression test on my engine then showed that the cylinder which
    was not getting a fuel supply only registered about 50psi.  The initial
    verdict was that I must have a burnt out valve on that cylinder, caused
    by running extremely lean.  So, the car goes back the following week
    to have the head taken off and the problem resolved.
    
    Sure enough, one of the valves was burnt.  A large chunk is missing
    from this valve - surprising that there was *any* compression on that
    cylinder, really.  Fitting a new valve required that the seat was re-cut
    and a new valve guide fitted too.  The engine had new guides fitted
    late last year, as well as valve seats being cut then.
    
    The engine is now back and in fine working order.  Throttle response is
    much better than it has been for some time (since I bought it ?). I hope
    that economy will also prove to be better, but that isn't a major concern.
    
    Hopefully, the engine can stay intact for some time to come.
    Goodwood times should improve too !
    
    J.R.

    Would there be any problems fitting 15inch tyres 185x60's instead of
    the normal 195x60's on a GTV 6.
    
                               Andy. 

    185/60 tyres will have a smaller rolling raduis than 195/60 tyres.. so
    your speedo will read incorrectly..  The 60 figure is a ratio.. of tyre
    wall height against tread width.
    
    So to fit a narrower tyre you would need a higher sidewall...
    
    I think 195/60's and 185/65 have the same rolling radius
    
    
    Dave B

    Can anyone give me any info on Guiletta's (1.8) as I might be getting a
    cheap one to do up.
    	Cheers
    
    PS Yes I do know I'm sick to even think of doing up an old Alfa.

    
    Best handling motorcar I have ever owned or raced .....
    
    Tremendous -- able to go round tight bends with power on or off, &
    always be totally safe. Shame Vauxhall couldn't have learnt from Alfa
    before they designed the all-time bad steerer they call Calibra.
    
    Only serious problem is rust, rust, rust & rust....
    
    I've still got a set of 5 Campagnolo alloys wheels for an Alfa, not to
    mention twin choke carbs & a set of camshafts. Mine went to the great
    scrappie in the sky when I couldn't be bothered to work on the rust any
    more ... apply here for spares. 
    
    Engines etc very straightforward, & reliable. Gearboxes in rear axle
    which helps weight distribution (& helps the above steering quality).
    Gearchange can be less than absolutely crisp, but normally OK. Sounds
    lovely, & a typical Italian car built for people who want to drive
    hard rather than to be transported. 
    
    I'd still have a GTV V6 any day, but that's not quite a Guilietta. 
    
    
    Colin

    
    Well I have finally got my hands on an Alfa and maybe soon wish 
    that I hadnt.
    
    The car is an Alfa Romeo Sprint Veloce 1.5 P2. It is one of a special 
    series of which there were only 1000 produced. Inside, on the passenger
    side is a badge figuring the number in the series. If I remeber this
    one is number 852. The car has 115000 Kms on the clock and was built 
    in 1982. From the looks of the car it has a sprint body, GTV interior
    and the rest I cant say, any enthusiasts hazard a guess ?
    
    Having had a very brief glance at it heres what I found,
    
    x Front tyres need replacing, ones worn down to the metal !!!
    
    x One rust hole in the offside wing (out with the plastric metal). 
      Severaql other rust areas on the body work but not that bad. The 
      car has permanently been in the South of France where we are not 
      plagued with rain like some other areas I have lived.
    
    x Brake fluid resevoir is empty. The owner tells me that one day he 
      went to drive the car and the brake pedal just went to the floor 
      with nothing happening.
    
    x Accelerator pedal stuck. Looked under the bonnet and found one of 
      the carbs was siezed. (have to inspect this)
    
    x Oil filler cap had a small amount of gunge (oil water mix) in it, 
      looks like a head gasket but where the hell this is and which one 
      I have no idea of telling, anyone know ?  On this subject I will 
      have a look at the dipstick for the extent of the problem.
    
    Now, why am I buying it ? Well im NOT I have been given it for free.
    Now for the all important question can anyone hazard a guess at the 
    value of this car (after the problems are rectified and a respray is
    attempted :-)
    
    Will let you know of my progress/other problems as I find them. 
    Towing it home tonight will be somewhat interesting......  

    Last night, after having spent the afternoon with a customer in
    Lausanne, I went to visit Pierre de Siebenthal.
    
    The 1st "thing" I saw in his workshop was a 33TT12. Car fully restored
    painted AR red with the real flat 12 3 litre engine ... Pierre had to
    leave and I stayed for a while in the garage, but we have arranged for a
    test drive one of these days ... This was really something and I
    thought I would not see one of these cars anymore as they have all
    found a home into private collections. Pierre has built this one from
    scratch and out of the stock of AR Autodelta parts that he has kept.
    
    Other things present in the De Siebenthal Garage yesterday:
    
    - Porsche 907
    - 3 (yes three) Mercedes 300SL gullwing
    - 2 (yes two) Ferrari 275 GTB (actually a GTB and a GTB/4)
    - a 4 cylinder Ferrari Testarossa
    - a V12 Ferrari 225 racing barchetta
    - original Bizzarini race car (similar to Bizzarini Stradale or Iso
      Rivolta)
    - a Lotus 23
    - Lamborghini Countach and 2 Lamborghini Espadas
    - a few modified Lancia B20 (for the Carrera Panamericana)
    - a couple of Aston Martin DB4 (one for historic racing)
    - .... + plenty of other things as usual ....

    
    Patrick, 
    
    
    I've always suspected you mixed with a richer type of person than the 
    rest of us ....... :-)
    
    
    Colin

    .186�    I've always suspected you mixed with a richer type of person than the 
    .186�    rest of us ....... :-)
    						    RICHER ????
    
    If only you were right !
    
    Seriously, this guy apparently has confidence in my driving. So he lets
    me drive some of his cars occasionally. I'm really looking forward to
    drive the Alfa ... real endurance prototype with a slightly detuned F1 
    engine + big titanium discs (my number one priority with these cars).
    
    If you want to see all that, give me a call with some advance notice
    when you know you travel to Geneva. 

    
    Now I have had some time to check out the Alfa I have here's what 
    i found;
    
    The cars model number (versione) is 902 A5, engine type 30128, 
    whatever these figures mean.
    
    Last night I dismantled investigated the drivers window being 
    permanantly down, after somewhat forcing open the winder mechanism 
    found a broken cable. Unfortunatly the cable will need to be 
    replaced 'on-site' as the crimps (one of them a special shape) do 
    not come out of their respective guide paths. Suppose I will have to 
    unbolt the door and take it to a friendly garage. Anyways the window 
    has now been permanantly jammed closed with a screwdriver !
    
    Got the engine running all be it on three cylinders. There is current
    getting to the plug but thats about it. Plug removal tonight.
    Engine ticked over at 1000 rpm, as per the manual, water temp got up 
    to the 90's when the fan kicked in, as per the manual. Oil preassure
    was in the mid of the range, all looks OK. 
    
    Rust, Rust and more Rust particularly on the rear wheel arches, some 
    of which maybe completly rusted through.
    
    Chassis very clean, exhaust system looks new. Clutch OK, getting into 
    1st gear was a bit iff'y but thats Alfa.
    
    Prime problem to solve now is sticky carbs, they appear to open OK 
    then refuse to close. Maybe due to all the gritty, oily gunk on the 
    return springs.  
    
    Enough for now, but would still be interested on what type of
    car/engine I have actually got here, 
    
    Mark.

    
    I have found the cause of the 1 cylinder misfire.nonfire and the 
    reason for the gunk at the top of the oil filler cap and the reason 
    for the engines aparent thirst for water in one foul swoop !
    Removal of the sparkplug brought forth a pouring of water from the 
    sparkplug hole !! Now there appears to me, anyway, to be a couple 
    of reasons;
    
    1. The left hand side head gasket has GONE in a MAJOR way.
    
    2. One of the manufacturers waterway plugs has come out.
    
    Hopefully its one of these two and nothing more serious like a worn
    out water path. 
    
    Taking the rocker cover off from the other side of the engine resulted
    in the finding of more oil/water mix.
    
    I would like to aske 'the panel' what to do next. 
    
    1. Leave everything alone till I get the workshop manual and get the 
       engine apart (complete gasket set �40) or,
    
    2. Drain of the oil and the water and leave standing till I get a
       manual, or
    
    3. Immeadiatly get the engine apart, clean everthing in sight and
       rebuild the engine once I do get a manual.
    
    Whats the reckoning out there ?
    
    Mark.
    
    PS: Is there a FIAT topic in this conference? I had a test drive of 
        the all new FIAT COUPE yesterday. If anyone wants to know more 
        drop me a mail. (If you take a test drive in France it appears 
        that the demonstrators/sales people do NOIT like you dropping 
        down a cog and 'flooring' it !!  

    Though I am most likely never to live in a country where I can get hold
    of one, I have this affinity(affliction) for Fiats, so what you have to
    say is interesting (as long as it's good :) ).
    
    dir/tit=fiat gives me
    
    
    Created:  6-MAR-1994 10:36                   2272 topics                 
    Updated: 14-JUN-1994 05:26
                      -< 4-sale 4, Wanted 5, Takeovers 1070, Swaps 1781,
    Quotes 2120 >-
     Topic  Author               Date         Repl  Title
    >  282  ZPOV03::SEOWHURN     22-AUG-1988     8  OPINION WANTED ON FIAT
    X1/9
       570  SHAPES::ALFORDJ      27-APR-1989    25  Fiat Uno ???
       677   URIAH::PETTEFAR     12-JUL-1989     2  Fiat 131 Kit?
       824  CCIIS1::ROGGEBAND    30-OCT-1989     7  Fiat Uno Turbo i.e.
       881  SHAPES::MCGINTYJ      4-DEC-1989    13  Fiat Uno - Timing Belt
    Replacement
      1129   YUPPY::FOX           4-JUL-1990    29  Fiat Tipo
      1738  NZOMIS::TURRELL       3-APR-1992     3  Fiat 1.8i twin cam??
      1826  UPROAR::WATSONR       8-JUL-1992     9  FIAT 124
      2182   LEMAN::CHEVAUX      29-NOV-1993     2  New FIAT Coup�
      2222   LEMAN::CHEVAUX       9-FEB-1994    11  Peugeot-Fiat Monospace
    Car
     
    PHil
    

    Is there any way of improving the braking of a GTV6,I've checked all
    the pads,discs etc and they all look to be in working order.
    I once heard that the braking system worked on the principle that
    the more you depressed the pedal the harder the brakes worked,eg
    progressive braking system.

    
    
    After various expendsive repairs and the dreaded red peril appearing
    all over the interior of the GTV's boot and the need for two inner
    wings and sills,I have decided to finally put to rest my affection
    for alfas.
    They are great cars to drive and look the bizz but when it comes to
    parts for the gtv I think porsche could be cheaper.I have spent 1k to
    re-build the engine after two of the liners cracked and it started
    drinking water.Then there was mis-firing caused by nackered h/t
    leads which were to cost 96 quid,then to sicken me,not one but two of
    the expansion bits of the exhaust fell off costing another 240 quid.
    So enough is enough,I've managed to get a gullible garage dealership
    to take it off me even though I'll lose a lot.
    May-be later I might go for the new gtv after they have ironed out
    the running in problems.
     
                               

    The new Spider and GTV really look the business, and according to
    Autocar they drive superbly. The steering and new 4-cyl engine came in
    for particular praise. Here's to a new generation of Alfas.
    Shame about the old GTV. My mechanic recommends sticking with a 4-cyl 
    to keep costs down.
    
                  Richard Griffiths (an Alfetta and ex-Sud owner)

    Both the new gtv and spider looks very good and it seems that the 
    driving position is o/k on the left hand side,but it could be go
    back to the problems experienced before on the right hand side,
    namely the ape position.
    Also the head lights look neat and are al-right for europe but the
    output would need to be upped a bit for our dark winters in Britian.
    Anyway I hope the cars are a great success for the marque and the 
    customers,and hopefully they may start a trend of exciting cars and
    eventually rid the roads of dull and boring shapes on wheels.
    
    Well this is my last note[we have been sold down the river by Digital]
    so take care and I hope that all your alfa probs are small ones.
    
    
                                  Andy.
    
            
    
    

    Best of luck Andy - I am reverting to Alfa with my next car, a revamped
    155 2.0TS. My local dealer already has orders for Spiders & GTVs. It
    looks like Alfa might finally be getting to be great again.
    
    Paul

    I spent a day with Alfa Romeo yesterday at Brands Hatch. My local
    dealer asked me along, having just got an order from LeasePlan for my
    new 155 2.0TS 16v. Excellent event!
    
    The morning was filled with driving skill events -
    
    Defensive Driving
    ABS Use
    Lane Changing
    Formula Finesse (tennis ball in bowl on bonnet through slalom)
    
    And a few laps round the Brands Indy circuit with Gianpiero Simoni, ex
    of the Alfa BTCC team - boy can he drive!
    
    After lunch it was try any Alfa time, round the Indy Circuit,
    accompanied by a racing instructor. In my cars were people like Terry
    Kaby (ex Rally driver) Jason Plato & Johnny Mollem (?) of the British
    F3 Championship.
    
    They had the full range there (as at today so no GTV or Spyder :-( )
    and I had circuits driving the 145 & 146 1.7TS, 164TS, 164 V6 and 155
    2.0TS 16v (twice!) Unfortunately Simoni stipped the tread off the V6
    155 before I had a chance to drive it!
    
    All of the cars were great to drive, the little ones being very
    chuckable and solid, the v6 feeling incredibly powerful (I hit 115-120
    coming into Paddock Hill bend before jumping on the brakes) and the new
    155 was superb, really made me feel comfortable with my choice and
    eager to get delivery. The only slight downer was having to swap cars
    every three laps or so meant that just as you got used to one car you
    had to learn the style of another.
    
    I will also never belittle the Indy circuit at Brands. It was very
    difficult to get a smooth, consistent line for a fast lap. The run out
    of Surtees, through McLaren & Clark and onto Clearways and the start
    straight is very difficult to get right, while Paddock Hill bend is
    awesome, it falls away so fast.
    
    Anyway, I would recommend any of the Alfas on driver enjoyment and if
    you can - test a new 155, you won't be disappointed.
    
    Paul

re.196:

>(I hit 115-120 coming into Paddock Hill bend before jumping on the brakes)

Obviously too slow out of Clearways ;-) Or did they limit your revs?

Dave (ex-Brands school).

    No - I just limited my brain!
    
    Paul

    
    Can anyone attempt to explain what it is about Alfas?
    
    Some of their cars are quite nice looking (especially the new GTV and 
    Spyder), but my (admitedly limited) experience of them didn't suggest
    what it is that inspires such loyality. I don't know anyone who would
    swap a BMW coup� for a FIAT Tipo, but Paul is obviously enthusiatic
    about his forthcoming 155.
    
    I'm not knocking Alfas, but I'm genuinely interested in what it is that
    inspires such enthusiasm for them.
    
    Mark

    In simple terms, my other half describes it as the BMW (or Audi) as
    having class, but the Alfa as having style & soul.
    
    The 155 is far from a Fiat Tipo. The Twin Spark engine (new version) is
    unique to Alfa, the suspension is that developed for the various
    Touring car championships, and the general style of the car is designed
    for driver fun. They generally have the most wonderful exhaust notes,
    (whilst my current 4 cyl BMW sounds like a sewing machine on a bad day)
    and just seems so responsive to what you want them to do.
    
    When I had my 75, I just wanted to drive it for fun. If they had got
    the 155 right from the start, I would probably not have gone for a BMW.
    When Alfa gets it right, like I'm told they did with the Sud (pre my
    driving days!), and certainly seem to have done with the GTV & Spyder, 
    they are cars that seem part of you. BMW calls it self the driving
    machine and that seems to sum it up. 
    
    My BMW has been almost faultless, safe, secure, fast and satisfying.
    But it does have the feel of an Alfa - maybe its just because they're
    Italian!
    
    Paul

    
    Paul,
    
    Thanks for that. I wasn't comparing the Tipo with the 155 (although the
    latter is based on the former and they seem to fit into a similar part
    of the market), but wondering why an Alfa had more alure than a FIAT 
    (not that I doubt, for one second, that, for most people, they do).
    
    Mark
    
    PS On the other hand, FIAT seem to be muddying their own water, with
    the FIAT Coup� and Barchetta straying into, what would seem to be,
    the natural Alfa sector of the market.

    Mark,
    
    The 155 is getting good reviews in the car mags I read whilst on
    holiday, reviewers are recommending it over Laguna's, Mondeo's,
    Cavaliers etc etc.
    
    Greg

    
    It's good to see Italian cars getting interesting again (if you exclude
    the obvious exotica). We'd never have bought FIAT's by choice in the
    past (price, economy, etc played there part in the Uno purchase and the
    Tipo was considered simply because we expected a better trade in for
    another FIAT), but I'm seriously considering a FIAT Coup� as my next
    car, although the GTV looks good too (albeit a little dearer),
    primarily on the strength of the driving appeal of the Tipo.
    
    The Barchetta is a lovely little car - prettier, in my eyes, than even the
    MX-5 (although that's no discredit to the MX-5), too.
    
    Mark<

    I took delivery of the new 155 2.0TS 16v last week and have done around
    250 miles of mixed motoring so far. First impressions are excellent. It
    seems much better screwed together that the 75 I had three years ago,
    but still not upto Bavarian standard. However, there are no serious
    squeaks or rattles. The seating position is much better than of old, if
    a little "Italian-esque", but no problems for someone of 5'9" with
    normal proportions (ooh-eer missus!)
    
    The engine makes the usual Alfa rasp when you rev it, and despite
    sticking to 4k revs at the moment its gots lots of go. Fuel consumption
    seems OK too, with the tank reading half full (30ish litres used) after
    200-220 miles. 
    
    The Sports Pack with low profile tyres & dark grey alloys make the ride
    a bit bumpy on London streets but doesn't cause any problems when
    cruising on motorways. The wheels themselves have had mixed reviews,
    Alfa-isti seem to love them while my other half asks why we paid extra
    to have the hub caps stolen!
    
    The old Alfa quirks are still there, the stereo is mounted far too low
    (at least Kenwoods come with optional remote controls), there is no Aux
    position so that you have to have the ignition on to play the stereo,
    the switch for the electric mirrors is the "wrong"  way round, and
    there is no push button to open the boot, only via the key or the
    button in the glovebox. 
    
    So, its a bit of a culture shock after 3 years in a BMW, and also after
    6 years of RWD and no torque steer, but its a pleasant shock and one
    that looks like being fun.
    
    Paul

    What are the seats like Paul?
    I was wondering about one of the old Q4's last time I replaced my car,
    but the seats were about the worst I've ever sat in, with horrible
    plastic headrests. Have they put better ones in now or what?
    
    Al.
   

    The seats are very good. Recaro style with solid, fabric headrests. 
    Adjust for back rest, back & forward, lumbar support and a sort of ski 
    slope style up & down. My wife rates them much higher than the BMWs for 
    comfort. 
    
    Paul

    I've had a 75 TSpark for the past year and thouroughly enjoy driving
    it. During these cold mornings though i'm finding that when first
    started from cold it just will not go into second but when it warms up
    a bit then its fine apart from a little clunk now and then when going
    into 2nd or 3rd. I've read most of this string and have heard from
    others that the gearbox is generally crap, am I starting to see signs
    of gearbox problems?  Any kind of preventative maintenance I can
    do to fix this, like put oil in it?
    
    In the summer i'm thinking selling it and going for the 75 V6...anyone
    got any useful information on this range? In particular, I think there
    was a new model released around 'J' reg which had alloys, leather trim,
    new bodykit etc etc...any info would be greatly appreciated!
    
    Cheers,
    ADy