Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    The new 3.9 litre engine is a revised version of the old Rover V8
    3.5 litre engine (which itself was a Buick design). The 3.9 is (I
    believe) equipped with Catalytic converters and (in Marcos form
    anyway :^)) produces about 170 bhp.
    
    Mark
     

I think there is some discussion of Range Rovers in the 4WD conference, no 
doubt Ian Philpott will confirm.

Dave.

    the power of the 3.9 V8 in the RR is 185bhp.  The quoted 0-60mph
    is around 9.5-10 seconds.  The only Range Rover I have been in was
    a new 3.5 SE and that was one nice car (too expensive though).
    
    Grant

re .2 Damn, same engine in the new TVR Speed Eight puts out 225bhp!!

    
    TVR told me that their engines were specially built for them.
    
    Obviously its to give them more power. Now 225 Bhp in a Mantula
    Spyder with the IRS, that sure sounds like automotive heaven to
    me!
    
    Mark

    It could have been an "overfinch" conversion, no details of the
    top of my head, but they put the bigger engine in, plus upgrade
    all the necessary parts to handle it.
    
    I will have a dig around for more details,
    
    mb

    re-1
    
    one of the Overfinch conversions juncks the RR V8 and puts in breathed
    on Chevy small block 5.7 Litre V8 (Non Injected) and this little
    V8 puts out 280bhp.  Overfinch claim a top speed on 125mph and 0-60mph
    in 7.7 seconds.  They do a range of engines upto 6.5Litres (all V8's).
    
    Grant

    Re: .7
    
    Can't find the article, but if anyone is staying in the Ramada,
    there is a 2 page promo in the "Isn't Reading a fab place to visit"
    magazine in the rooms.
    
    mb

    
    I'm a regular "500-miles on the M4 at weekends" man.
    
    Amazes me how many people have their own private oil wells. Range
    Rovers cruising in the high '90's for miles along the M4 are regular.
    Last one I drove like that got 12mpg - good view though. 

    
    re -1, my brother has a V8 Range Rover, and for this very reason has
    decided that it would be cheaper to run another car _as well_ ! 
    He's looking for an old Mini - far easier to park too!
    
    Elaine 

As well as announcing the 3.9 V8 Land Rover also announced the availability
of the 200 TDi diesel engine in the Range Rover.

For those who don't own private oil wells this will give about 35 mpg and 
deliver about the same torque as the old 3.5 litre V8 (at 111 bhp though), so
if you prefer to drive legally and want luxury and economy...

The 3.9 will also appear in the Land Rover Discovery next year.

/. Ian .\

Re: .11

do you think he'd fancy an "E" reg, high mileage mini in a few months time ?

    
>>do you think he'd fancy an "E" reg, high mileage mini in a few months time ?
    
  I think he's thinking more of an 'E' at the right-hand edge of the number
    plate! (but then if your's is going for about 75 quid, I'm sure he'd
    take it off your hands!!! :-)  )
    
    
    

This an "E" on the left side of the number plate....and I think Leasing will
want a little more than 75 squid !!

    I want to buy an 84 range and swop the petrol engine for a diesel.
    Currently I am being offered a daihatsu 2.8 4 cyl diesel for #1200.
    This came of of a scrapped motor. To convert/fit into the range, I am
    being quoted #800. Can any noters out there tell me if these prices are
    reasonable, or point me to garages/scrap yards etc where I can get
    quotes to compare? Reason for the swop is the range will be going to
    Africa and I am more interested in mpg than speed. (I know is probably
    sacrilage to put in a daihatsu, but thats a different story...). Any
    help will be appreciated.
    
    Eddie
    
    ps mod, fell free to move this to an appropriate place if you think
    this is the wrong place for this note.
    
    pps this note has also been placed in 4WD (twice by mistake!!)

I bought a BMC 1098cc A-series from a scrappie for 50 quid and it cost another
200 to put it into fully reconditioned state.  1200 sounds a bit over the top
and you should shop around.  Don't be afraid to go further afield either as
we found you could save hundreds on major items by travelling to Sheffield
for instance (my son knows *all* the decent scrappied there as he's a poor
student trying to keep a Maxi on the road!).

Personally, I wouldn't pay above 300-400 for a diesel engine from a scrap job.
Then another 1000 max for recon and fitting.  Especially if you go for the right
engine in the first place and forget the funny foreign stuff.

	� The 3.9 will also appear in the Land Rover Discovery next year.

	I understand LR have just announced the 4-door Efi version of
	the discovery (previous version was carburated)... still the
	3.5 block though. Having owned 2 * 3.5 Range Rovers and now a
	3.9, I honestly think the 3.5 is the better engine. Boring it
	out to 3.9 has produced a harsh, tinny sounding engine with
	only a marginal and irrelevant gain in high end performance.
	Wish I'd gone for the Discovery!

	Does the upmarket Discovery signal the end of the Range Rover?

	Jonathan.

Land Rover say the Range Rover will be replaced end of 1992...

The "up market discovery" (essentially a 5 door body, with the "Special Value
Pack" and extra seat modules as standard) is a competitor for the Mitsubishi
Shodun V6, and of course is intended for the American market in due course (they
wouldn't have got the carburetted version through US emission control regs, and 
US trade protectionism applies a punitive surcharge to 3 door vehicles of this
type).

/. Ian .\

PS: Land Rover are now offering a "contract purchasing" option to fleet buyers:
similar to Fleet Contract Hire except that the hirer notionally agrees to buy at
the end of the contract. This offers a substantial saving (about 10%) to the
operating company due to the different way the government views the tax
siuation. Perhaps in these days of cost saving within Digital it is time that
Fleet Admin looked at offering such a scheme to us poor company car drivers
(if half the saving to Digital were passed on to us, it would save about �300 a
year on the "lease" costs...)

    re last 2
    
    The new Range Rover will have a 4.5 Litre 32valve version of the Rover
    V8 and expected figures are 235-240bhp and a top speed of between
    130-145mph (dependant on odd-road tyre technology).
    
    Grant

    
    Re .20
    
    > (dependant on odd-road tyre technology)
    
    Can't it be used on ordinary roads then? :^)
    
    Isn't it a bit irresponsible to design a car with 130+ performance when
    it's going to be run around on tyres with a maximum speed rating well
    below this. Insurance companies are going to love this beast.
    
    
    Mark

	Re .20...

	Never heard of this one, was this news from Land Rover UK?

	I wouldn't have thought they'd be interested in making such
	a machine; it doesn't really fit into their product range
	very well, and there are enough conversions available for
	people who particularly want to drive two tons of steel
	around at twice the speed limit...

	As far as the insurance goes, it was bad enough trying to
	insure the 3.9... all the brokers insisted it was a "special",
	and even when I'd made them phone Land Rover they didn't
	really know what the premium should be as there were apparently
	so few of them on the road (not what Land Rover's sales figures
	suggest).

	Jonathan.

Land Rover UK have officially stated that the Range Rover is to be replaced in
1992.

Some of the motoring tabloids have shown "artists impressions" looking like
a Dodge Caravan.

Insider Rumours at LR(UK) indicate that (a) the new vehicle will be called a
"Land Rover <mumble>", not a Range Rover (ie they will follow the style of
the Discovery in naming it), and (b) it will be built on a longer wheelbase,
probably 120", rather than the present 100" (making it a competitor of the new,
big Toyota Land Cruiser, just as the Discovery is a competitor for the 
Mitsubishi Shogun).

A bigger engine is not out of court - especially if they build it as an 8
seater like the Land Cruiser. As for top speed: well Lamborghini make the LM02
which has a detuned version of the engine from the Countach...

/. Ian .\

    re-1
    
    It was on the cover of CAR magazine a few months ago.
    
    re the tyres
    
    The are no 130+mph off-road tyres availible at the moment for such a
    high speed but they are under development.
    
    Grant

    A question on Range Rover 'conversions' :
    
    Having attended at a couple of AWDC meetings, I noticed that quite
    a few RR's had been 'shortened' - intentionally.
    
    This conversion really suits the vehicle.  It basically entails
    removing the rear hatch(es) and chopping off the body from behind
    the rear wheel arches.  The original hatch end is then grafted
    back on to the rear of the vehicle, which results in a much reduced
    rear overhang (improving 'departure angles' when off-road, or
    'approach angles' if travelling in reverse).
    
    I would like to know if anyone knows any of the details involved in
    this modification.  In particular, where does the petrol tank go ?
    
    J.R.

    
    My brothers RR is still for sale, and he's the person who would be able
    to tell you exactly what is involved in a 'shortening' project. I
    believe he has thought about doing it, but has got too many other
    projects on the go!
    
    If you are interested in his RR, I can get more details from him,
    or mail you his phone number. 
    
    Elaine
    
    PS  the vehicle is in the Midlands, not down near 'sunny Reading' :-) 

Having recently bought a two year old RR Turbo Diesel, I'd be very
interested to get in contact with anyone with the same/similar vehicle.

Being very new to RRs, I would like to discuss certain things I have 
noticed about the one I have, just to see if it is normal/usual/common.

    You mean like:
    
    Rusty tail gate
    Rusty chassis member at the back ?
    
    I used to have one. (1982, 5 door, 4 speed, petrol engine with carbs).
    
    Paul

Not exactly. More like:

    - suspension 2cms or so lower on drivers side than the other
      (could this just be due to life spent with just the driver
       aboard ? )
    - feeling that the rear wheel is trying to dig itself into
      the road on "fast" cornering (fast to the right causes the 
      rear left to dig in and the right front wheel to lift. The
      effect is not so noticable when turning to the left ...

Is this normal, or should the springs/shocks be changed ?

I've only ever driven three RRs. One new demonstrator, one 3 year
old "dog" which I didn't buy, and the two year old "puppy" which I
did buy. All of them were the same model (4door, 2.5td) but all had
a completely different feel when driving.

	Well I've had 3... an 85 3.5 carb auto, an 86 3.5i auto, and
	a 90 3.9 auto. None of them rusted, but they all leaned to one
	side or the other (even when brand new), and I've yet to see one
	that doesn't...

	JJ.

    Mark,

        You're spring obsessive.  How many times did you change the springs
    on the MGB?  :-)

    Have you experienced the same feeling as the passenger?

    I have to admit that both the Healey and the Magna gave much the same
    impression.   I never did manage to discover whether it was "newly
    puchased car" neurosis or a genuine complaint.

    pip pip.

    (should have bought a Volvo :-) )

Must admit, the feeling is "similar" to the one I get when driving the MGB
hard, but I assume that it was due to the car being half an inch shorter
on one side than the other ...

Well, it's good to know that it is common for the RR to be lop-sided (or
is that lob-sided ?) ...

Is there any way to test the springs, just to see if they are right or not ?

Also, on "fast" cornering, I get the impression sometimes that the things is
going to roll. Can this happen, or do I just need to get used to it, like
I did when driving a Citroen Diane ?

    Re -1

    Cornering... RRs have incredible body roll compared to a normal
    car, you'll get uset to it after a while. I've only known one
    person to roll one (not me!).

    If you're really worried about the springs, get the local dealer
    to check them (unless you bought it from him ;-)... you shouldn't
    have any problems if the car's less than 100k miles old.

    Just out of interest, what mpg are you getting from your TD? I sold
    my 3.9 because 17mpg was just too low for 500+ miles per week; I'm
    fed up with its replacement (a Golf) already...

    JJ.

The MPG is around 30, but with Diesel being about two thirds the price
of petrol here in France, this gives me a petrol based MPG of around 45 !!!

Compared to the BMW I was driving before, this is a good MPG ...

Motorway cruising at between 150 and 170 kph is possible, although there
is a very noticable reduction of speed on hills ...

All in all, I'm well pleased with the TD

    A mate of mine who just bought a TDi Discovery is averaging 35+mpg on a
    'run', with around 30mpg in town, all "unrestrained" driving style.
    
    The new 6 gear Audi 100 TDi will pull 0-60 in around 10 secs, 120+ mph,
    and do 50+ mpg at a steady 70mph. It's *bloody* expensive though, 30K
    squids. I'd *lerve* the Estate.
    
    Laurie.

Well, it looks as though the rear dampers need replacing: one is at 40%,
the other at 50%.

I've been quoted UKl 60 per damper here in France. Is the price similar
to that in the UK ?

Also, they suggested swapping the springs over, side to side, to try to
level the car up a bit. Has anyone tried to do this themselves ? I would
imagine that the weight of the thing would make removing both springs at
the same time quite a difficult job. Do they need compressing, or can you
just take the weight off to get them out ?

           <<< WANLAD::DUA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY.GENERAL]CARS_UK.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -< CARS_UK conference >-
================================================================================
Note 1932.0                   Dead Range Rover ...                    No replies
AEOEN1::MATTHEWS "M&M Enterprises, the CATCH 22"     21 lines  27-OCT-1992 16:37
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    My Range Rover has died !!! :-(
    
    It's two years old, 75,000 kms on the clock, and the engine
    has bitten the dust !!!
    
    It's the 2500 TD, and according to the garage (who haven't
    yet taken the thing to pieces) has probably dropped one of the
    pre-combustion chambers onto and through the piston !!!
    
    This sounds VERY expensive to me ... UKL 2000 at least to fix.
    
    I had alwasy assumed that diesel engines were strong ... good
    for 200,000 without too many problems.
    
    Question: has anyone heard of this type of problem with the
    TD Range Rover before ? Why does the garage suspect this as
    the problem even before they have taken the thing to pieces
    if it isn't a known fault ?
    
    I'm in 'information gathering mode', to see if it is worth
    looking for some sort of 'assistance' from Land Rover ...

    Sounds to me like a feature, I have come across that with BMW where a
    problem sticks it's head in the frame , and you get a garage say 'Oh,
    thats the Blah!!!, that's quite common'. A friend of mine has a petrol 
    range rover , thats done over 100,000 miles, still sweet as a nut.
    Have you spoken to a real Land rover dealer??? To say that the problem 
    is Blah without looking sound like its common, or they are stringing
    you along. I'd get a second opinion, or wait and see what someone can
    turn up here.
    
    
    
          Garry

    This was the Land Rover dealer !!! 
    
    Turns out that a friend of a friend is an AR/Land Rover mechanic.
    I'm trying to find out from him about the 'feature' ...

    My father has 150,000 miles on his Range Rover TD, and nothing's ever
    gone wrong with the engine. Get a second opinion.
    
    Piers

    I assume this isn't the same engine ... the 2.5 has only been 
    available 2 years. Before that it was a 2.4 which has a reputation
    for having cylinder head problems !!! Unless your father has done
    150,000 miles in two years :-)
    
    Anyway, the engine should be apart soon, so I should be better 
    placed to know if this is likely to be 'bad luck' or not ...

�    gone wrong with the engine. Get a second opinion.
    
    Don't need a second opinion to say "It's broke !"...
    
    Finding out what's gone wrong shouldn't require too much 'opinion',
    just standard investigation.
    
    J.R.

    Spoke to my 'spy' at Land Rover yesterday. Tells me that there
    doesn't appear to be any known problem with this engine, although
    the Sherpa diesel has been known to drop the precombustion chamber
    through the piston.
    
    The engine is thought to have four heads, so with luck, the damage
    should be confined to one cylinder only ...

>   The engine is thought to have four heads, so with luck, the damage
>   should be confined to one cylinder only ...

Land Rover don't know how many heads?

Dave :-)

    Four damaged heads, one cylinder wrecked !!! Looks like the 
    damage to the heads caused one cylinder to fail. If left, 
    the other would too !!!
    
    They are checking the chassis number to see if this is a known
    fault with this 'batch'.
    
    I hope it is ...

    
    Mark,
    
    When you say four damaged heads, do you mean that the heads are
    seperate castings for each cylinder?
    
    Mark

    Exactly that. Each is cracked between the valve and pre-combustion
    chanber. On the cylinder which is 'dead' the crack became big enough
    to allow the pre-combustion chamber to fall onto the piston. This 
    has wiped out the piston, liner and who knows what else ...

Total cost estimated to be UKL 2200 !!!

I'm in discussion with Rover France ...

    Assuming your talks are fruitless, wouldn't it be cheaper to get a
    2nd-hand engine, or one from a scrapper?
    
    Laurie.

Factory exchange UKL 5500 !!!

From a scrapper: the problem is that this engine only came on line 3 years
ago. The previous TD was 2400, and known to be fragile (don't laugh !!!).

Anyway, Rover France just phoned. Looks like they are considering helping
me out ... 

    FIVE GRAND!!!!! Ye Gods...
    
    Have you tried getting a quote in the UK, in pounds? I'll bet it's much
    cheaper, even allowing for transport costs.
    
    Laurie.

Apparantly not, so my spy at Rover tells me ...

I could get 8 MGB engines rebuilt professionally for that !!!

Looks like one of the other six will have to go to finance this.

    Perhaps a copy of LRO and a phone call to an RR specialist would be a
    good idea. I can't believe it'll be that expensive.
    
    Laurie.

	According to my dear brother who's in the trade...

	Exchange price with injection equipment �2467

	Without injection equipment �1895

	Plus VAT and fitting of course...

	JJ.

Is that the price for a factory exchange ?

When you say injection equipment, does this include the turbo ?

Well, Rover France have agreed to pay the bill. I will have to pay
at most UKL 200.

Phew !!! So, not only are GM trying to improve customer relations,
but Rover too. Can't be bad, although it is about time really.

Got the RR back on Firday. Three months to the day after it blew up !!!

Initial problem was the cylinder heads, plus one piston damaged. On
replacing the heads and piston they noticed another little problem:
a hole in the block where the cam follower had come through.

Soultion: replace the block, remaining pistons, camshaft and followers.

(at the same time I got them to replace the clutch and oil pump)

Then, with the engine all back together again and running, the next
problem was discovered: not a lot of power. This was found to be the
turbo which no longer was working.

Solution: replace the turbo.

So, it's working. Rover have footed the bill for the mechanical parts
and I've had to pay the labour, plus the clutch and oil pump.

Total cost: UKL 2,100 !!! If you include the cost of the parts which
Rover paid for, the total bill must be in the order of UKL 6,000.

My theory is that it was the turbo which caused the problem in the
first place. I could never convince the chap at the garage that the
bits of metal in the piston were parts of a nut, and not just where
the valve had hit the piston. This nut I'm sure came off the end of
the turbo and found it's way into the cylinder, damaging the piston
and valve, and causing the pushrod to force the cam follower out through
the side of the block.

I'm not sure Rover will agree, but I'll give it a try.

What I don't really understand is that Rover, by accepting liability
for the presence of faulty parts in the engine causing the problem,
and paying for these parts, why I have to pay for them to be taken apart
and put together again. Surely, Rover should pay parts and labour ?

Since the things is well out of warantee, I'm sure I won't get Rover
to agree to this, and am even a little surprised that they agreed to
pay for any of it. Still, it's worth a try ...

Anyway, I'm glad to see that Rover no longer fit the Italian engine
to the RR. I also read somewhere at the weekend that the popular
conversion for the RR is to fit a Nissan 3.5l turbo diesel. Supposed
to be much more powerful, economical, and reliable. So why don't Rover
do a deal with Nissan ???

    
    
    You've only got to wait for another fault to be able to use your
    Workshop Manual ;^)
    
    
    Shaun.

Probably won't have to wait too long either ... :-)