Conference napalm::musclecars

    
    I currently own a 1969 Mercury Cougar "CJ Hardtop"
    
    The CJ hardtop package specified a base (not XR-7 or
    Eliminator) Cougar equipped with a 428CJ.  Mine has 
    the following factory options:
    
    o HD C-6 trans
    o Traction-Lok differential with 3.00 gears, nodular case.
    o Ram-Air
    o Power steering
    o Power disc brakes
    o Rally wheels
    o Air Conditioning (3.00 ring and pinion mandatory with A/C)
    o AM/FM stereo
    o Shoulder belts
    o Courtesy light group
    o Floor mats
    
    I also have all the documents on this car, including window sticker,
    invoice and warranty card.  The smog system is gone, I sold it to
    AJ Sanclemente who needed it for his '69 GT500 Shelby.  Frankly, I
    had no use for it anyway....
    
       
    Tom

    
    Question for you resto fanatics:
    
    My Cougar still wears the original Medium Gold Metallic
    paint.  I'm not at all wild about this color, even in a modern
    Base/Clearcoat mix.  I'm strongly leaning towards Black.
    Any thoughts as to how this will affect the;
    
    1. Value
    2. Saleability
       
    of the car?  Feedback appreciated.
    
    Tom

    Tom,
    
     I own two '68 Cougars, one dark metallic blue the other gold.  Both
    have 302's in them one being the 2v the other being the 4v with duels
    and traction lock.  Both Cougars are in excellent shape and kept in my
    three car garage next to my Black turbo Buick GN.  If your car is close
    to original specs KEEP the gold even if you don't like it.  It will
    match you're color code which people do look at.  I went to the Cougar
    nationals in Ohio the summer before last and I noticed a look of
    metallic Cougars they don't look as good as black but they still look
    good.  There was even a '68 XR-7 G in gold (under 500 G's made).  Keep
    the color, with that 428CJ the car will look good no matter what the
    color is.
    
    
    Fellow Cat owner,                     
    
      Jim 

           
    Authenticity is important to me, but I do plan on
    keeping this car forever.  I realize the data plate
    won't match paint color, but I would rather love the car
    100% then worry about resale.  Besides, I could always 
    paint it the Med. Gold in the unlikely event I decided to
    sell.  
    BTW, the car is original, with exception of the engine internals.
    However, it still idles like a stocker, and I have retained
    the original intake, exhaust manifolds, carb, and distributor.
    
    Tom

    
    Tom,

	Hows about selling me that s-tube and shield, eh,eh,eh.

	The paint question is an intersting one. My Shelby is
	white/white with the blue stripe. I would much pefer
	grabber blue. I have agonized over this much, and have
	finnally decided it was more important to have the car
	original in the event of resale. The things you want
	to consider are as follows:

	1. On resale you will take a hit for the wrong color
	   on a condition 1-2 car. It will be alot more for 
	   a #1 car.

	2. A repaint prior to resale is not a viable option on
	   a #1/2 car for the following reasons:

		1. People paying the bucks now regularly gauge
		   the paint thickness. The paint life degrades
		   based on thinkness and for big bucks this is an
		   issue.

		2. A truly quality paint job will have the right
		   color under all the chrome and in all those tight
		   spots you can only get to when the car is completely
		   stripped. I don't think you would want to do this
		   kind of job just to get the color right for resale.


	3. If you truley believe you will have the car forever then
	   paint it what you want, and enjoy it. If you ever do sell
	   then you will have to take a certain loss but at least
	   you will have enjoyed it fully. 

				- A.J.

    
    AJ,
    
    Good points, but let me assure you I would NEVER consider
    painting a car without completely stripping it down of all
    chrome and trim.  Also, the old paint would be fully removed
    as well.  After spending a couple of years under the body and
    paint tutoring of Chris Roche I am well aware of the difference
    between doing it and doing it RIGHT.  If you see his work you
    will understand what I mean.....
    
    Tom
    
    PS. Forget the other stuff - no way am I letting it go!
    
    

Hey Tom,   wanna get real depressed?  I was thumbing through a want-ad
last night which was about a week old. I had already read it once when
it first came out. I noticed an ad I hadn't seen the first time. 
	
	1969 Cougar Convert. Q-code. (yep thats the 428CJ). All original
	documentation, complete car with original motor (out). It was
	loaded too, Air etc. Mint interior, solid. 4500 bo.

Of course I called but I knew it would be gone, which it was. I figure
I could have used it for parts on my Shelby :-).

				- A.J.

    
    AJ,
     You bet I saw it, and I started foaming at the freakin' mouth.
    That is a serious high dollar car, though it would be more 
    valuable as an R code.  I didn't have the scratch, but I did
    call Ken Wells (of Ken's Cougars) to see if he was.  Unfortunately
    it was gone, but I'm sure it will turn up in Hemmings for 30k or
    so........
    
    Tom

Hemmings came in yesterday and I immediately studyied the mustang section.
It was my lucky day! I bought a set of 69/70 Shelby Mags for 450 bucks.
The going rate for these wheels is generally 200-240 per wheel for nice
ones. I already have four but one is in rough shape  so I have been looking
for one to round out my set. Now I have eight. These are the only wheels
in creation not being reproduced, Tony D. Branda was going to reproduce them
but the deal fell through. 

Now all I need is that heat shield and s-tube. Tom, where do you park your car?


				- A.J.

    A.J. I happen to have the keys to Tom's garage. Cut me a good deal
    and maybe we can talk. Then again Tom knows where my vehicles are.
    
    Chris

    Chris, sounds good!

I think I'm gonna cry.

A buddy of mine just got back from a trip to North Carolina. He went
down for ten days to take in the races and to check out this car a
friend of his told him about. It was a 69 BOSS 429. No rust. 95% complete
but in boxes. My buddy bought the thing for 5 Grande. Yep 5K !!!!!!
He turned around and sold it 2 days later for 10K.  I really wish
I had gone down there with him, I would have given him the 10, easy.


			A.J.

         Over the long weekend I put KYB gas shocks in my '71.  I also
    replaced the stock front 3/4 " sway bar with a 1" unit and added
    poly hardware.  WOW what a difference the ride is much firmer and 
    the when compared the ride before its nothing short of incredible.  
    I also have a 3/4 " rear bar that I didn't have time to install.  I 
    wouldn't say it'll corner as well as the new generation muscle cars 
    but the handling has been greatly improved.  If anyone wants more details
    just send me mail.
    
                    Dean 

    Well I kept busy again this past weekend.  I had to work on my
    fathers Cutlass for a while ;-(, but when that was done then the
    fun started.  
         I put a lower numerical power valve in my 3310 and added the
    quick change vacuum secondary kit.  While I was messing around with 
    it I pulled the carb off added a 1" aluminum spacer between the carb
    and manifold, and put in new carb studs.  Once I had this done I could
    add the 2 3/4" ? drop base air cleaner that I've had hanging around cuz
    it wouldn't fit without that 1" lift. Now with that drop base on there 
    I could finally fit a 4" air cleaner under the stock hood with no clearance
    problems. Now once I had this stuff together I remebered that old K+N
    stubstack I hadn't been using because I didn't have a 4" air filter,
    because I didn't have a drop base air cleaner, because I didn't have... 
    while you get the picture.
         So I put it all together and the result is a noticeable gain in 
    low end.  The idle 'seems' a little rougher at the same RPM, but
    other than that I pretty happy with these mods...so happy in fact that
    I spent the rest of the day shining my tailights ;-) in hopes that some
    one would be getting a birds eye view.
         Heres a trick I used to check the hood clearance; slam the hood
    if no dents show through from the inside you're all set...:-) just 
    kidding.  I used a dixie cup on top of the air cleaner and lowered the
    hood VEEERRy gently till I was sure there wouldn't be any contact.
    
                    Dean
         

    
    
    Hey Guys,
    
    	I've got a 71 Mustang Conv I'll be looking to sell in the next
    	month or so (yeah, I know spring would be better). I know what
    	book is, 6800.00 condition 3 - which seems kinda high to me. This car
    	is is actually better than 3 although I would hesitate to call
    	it a 2. I'm taking the number values for there real meaning ->
    	1 is trailered 99.0 point show, 2 is driver/show, 3 is nice.
    	The car has nice paint,interior,top,engine. Solid underneath.
    	It's got original 302 auto, console/buckets, good rubber, 72K original
        miles, new exhaust, runs real nice. What could I resonably expect
    	to get for it in the current market? I probably could keep it
    	till spring if would make a significant difference but if we're
        only talking a few hundred bucks difference I'll unload it now.
    
    
    					- A.J.           
    

    It's value is very dependent on geography.  I've seen some places that
    you could get $6800 for it easy.  I've seen others that you might get
    $4000.  Also, you have to be willing to wait for the person that wants
    that model instead of just any conv.  Good luck.
    
    I have a '69 coupe I picked up last Oct. for $2200.
    

    The other day I saw this guy cruising around in his cherry looking
    65 fastback. I think to myself I hope he's just moving it or something.
    My friend says he saw hima couple days later, car covered with salt
    still just driving around. This isn't some kid its a guy about 35-40.
    Won't stay cherry looking for long ;-(.
    
           Dean

    
    Dean,
    
    Don't feel so bad - last month I was in Texas, and on a drive
    from Dallas to Houston in the pouring rain, mud, etc. what should
    appear on Interstate 45s but a *mint* Shelby GT500.  Now *that's* a
    true lunatic!
    Guy was really making time too....
    
    

    But Tom, at least those water spots will wash right off. ;-) That stuff
    on the roads in New England starts eating into the metal as soon as it
    hits. You wouldn't believe some of the vehicles that I see being used
    as daily drivers around here from time to time.
    
    Harry
    

    
    
    Anybody out there ever put a convertible top on a car? I bought one
    from the Paddock for my 71 along with the well. The car has been
    jammed and its time to put the top on. Any advise? Pointers? Somehow
    I don't think this is going to be easy.
    
    	thanks A.J.

    
    
    
    
    I developed this 428 Cougar/428 Cobrajet engine spotter's guide for the
    Cougar Club newsletter.  Much of this info also applies to Mustangs.
    Enjoy,
    
    Tom
    
    ******************************************************************
    

VIN Number:   

The 5th VIN character should be "R" for Ram-air CJ 
cars, and "Q" for non Ram-air cars.
 
Radiator: 

All big blocks recieved the 24" wide 3 row radiator

Brakes: 

Front disc brakes were standard on all factory 300+ Horsepower Fords.
Consequently, NO 428CJ Fords should have four wheel drums.

Transmission:   

Automatic: C-6 with cast iron tailshaft. ID tag #'s PGB-AF1 (1969) or 
PGB-AF2 (1970)
Manual:  4 speed, short tailshaft, coarse spline Toploader. 
ID  tag #'s RUG-AE2 (1969) or RUG-AZ, RUG-AZ1 (1970).  

Sway bar:  

All 428CJ's recieved a unique 15/16" front sway bar.  
390 cars equipped with competition suspension recieved a 
7/8" bar (same as Boss 302 Eliminators) Base suspension 
390 cars recieved a 3/4" sway bar.   

Rear Springs: 

428CJ Cougars had 4 leaf springs identified by  2 brown and 2 
yellow paint stripes.  (Some cars may have springs with 2 gold 
stripes and 1 violet stripe)  

Shocks:   

4 speed cars should have staggered rear shocks.

Hood:   

Original R code cars will have a functional fiberglass scoop 
embossed "Short Boss" with Ford part # C9GB-16C664-B and Mercury 
Part # C9WB-16C664-B on the underside.   Hood ribbing will have 
a centered round cut-out to accomodate the Ram-Air seal.

Drag-Packs:

Drag pack Cougars may be either "R" or "Q" codes and 
are distinguished by:

External Oil cooler mounted on the driver's side radiator support.
Both horns located on the passenger side radiator support.  
Horn jumper wire to accomodate the relocated horn.

Gears should be 3.91's or 4.30's, Detroit Locker differential, 31 spline.
Axle tags for 3.91 gears should be either WFD-B or WFD-D 
4.30 gears should be tagged WFD-C or WFD-E

NOTE:  Do not be mislead by the presence of a 9" differential.  
All Cougars were 9" equipped regardless of drivetrain.  Also, 
there is a major misconception about so-called "Nodular" center 
sections identified by the large "N"  All this "N" denotes is 
that the center section was a Ford Service Replacement!  

Other:  

Original big block cars will have a bolt-on heat shield designed 
to protect the heater motor from underhood heat.  428CJ Cougars 
also had a plastic shield to protect the battery from intense 
underhood heat.  Few are still around, but the part number is 
C7OZ-10682-B, (Engineering part number  is C7OB-10682-B)


 
428 Cobrajet Engine Identifier:
 
Valve Covers:  

Factory sales literature lists Cast Aluminum "Powered by Ford" 
valve covers, but a number of cars (mine included) were 
delivered with stamped steel, chromed valvecovers.  Either is correct.

Heads: 

Part number C80Z-6049-K, Casting # C80E-9080-N with horizontal 
bolt pattern for exhaust manifolds (all other FE Ford engines use 
a vertical bolt pattern)  If heads are off the block, Intake Valves 
should be 2.09", exhaust valves should be 1.65"

Intake Manifold:  

Intake manifold should be a cast iron, high riser, dual plane, 
part # C80Z-9424-B

Distributor: 

For automatic equipped cars, a single point with vacuum advance, 
part # C70Z-12127-F.  4 speed cars had a dual point with vacuum 
advance, Part #

Carburator:  

Automatic:
Holley model 4150, list 4280, 735 CFM, center pivot floats. Ford 
part # C9AF-9510-N  stamped on airhorn

Crankshaft:

CJ crankshafts are tricky, as there are 4 different versions.  
Some 1969 CJ's used 1968 cranks marked #1UB, while later 69-70 CJ 
cranks were marked #A.  Early 1969 SCJ cranks were marked #1UA, 
later 69-70  SCJ cranks were marked #B.  

Connecting rods: 

Drag-Pack engines use the 427  "Lemans" rod with 7/16" cap screw 
bolts, part # C9ZZ-6200-A.  Standard CJ rods have 13/32" rod bolts 
with broached heads, part # C6AZ-6200-C.  CJ rods are all of the 
bushed design.

Fan:

The 428CJ used a unique clutch fan, identified by 7 blades, 18.25" 
diameter and 2 5/8" bolt spacings.  Part number is C9ZZ-8600-C

    I made an interesting discovery this weekend...I was at the JY
    finishing off a Torino (just fender chrome left on it John) when
    I noticed a 65 Fastback that I hadn't seen before. So I go over to
    see whats what when I notice the center emblem on the wheel is still
    in nice shape (three spoke with three spoke horn) Well I like to 
    collect the emblems so I thought I'd pop it off, when I did under
    neath was a perfect (covered up for 27 years) Falcon Sprint emblem
    with the checked flags and Falcon above and Sprint below...So
    being a bit of a purist at heart I took the whole wheel :-) and
    for you C word guys see Ford really does use interchangeable parts ;-).
    
    
               Dean

    Hummmmm...... Not to many guys around here really OWN Falcons....
    
    
    TMW....Jim
    
    :-)

    Re last 
    
     Jim I don't own one yet but I've got a start...I've got the 
    steering wheel :-).
    
            Dean
    
    P.S. I liked the VW p name better :-)

    Dean,
    So you don't own one.....Hummm..., wanna buy one....?
    
    TMW...
    
    ps actually the three that I have left I really don't want to part
    with....

        I recently purchased (more like stole) a 1972 Mustang Mach I.

    It's a T-5 (Export only).  I'm trying to ID the engine, it's a Q code.

    The large Chiltons Manual lists it as a 351CJ or GT.  The Chiltons manual

    for Mustangs/Cougars does not list a Q for '72 ('71 is a CJ, '73 is HO).

    I spoke to the Ford parts man, & gave him the engine code and carb. #.

    He went to look it up on the microfiche, came back shaking his head, saying

    "Looks like you've got a monster there!".  Apparently the carb was made

    for the 429/460 engine.  He could not confirm what the engine was (GT,

    possibly CJ).  My question is, is there a difference, if so, what/how can

    I identify it?

    
    
    I believe Q in 72 was the 351.
    
    The 429 was not available in 72. It was an R in 71.
    
    	- Al

        Yes, the Q code is a 351, my question is which one.  I know its a
    high performance cleveland, but is it a GT or CJ, or is there a difference.
    I don't think it's a HO, as those were not in automatics (C6).


                          John

    
    I will look up the data on this engine tonight in my omnipotent
    Ford Parts Manuals.  Boy I love this stuff!
    
    Offhand I'd say that the Q code 351 is a high performance motor, so
    that much you should count on. 
    
    Tom

    
    The motor is likely the 351 CJ.
    
    In `71 the high performance 351 was the Boss
    In `72 the Boss 351 was dropped (as were 429's) and top `o the line
    hot motor was the lower compression 351 CJ.  Still a Cleveland, though
    no 4 bolt mains, 11.3:1 squeeze, etc. as per the Boss 351.  Power was 
    SAE rated at something like 266 net, good for nearly 300 gross HP, 
    similar to the 4v Cleveland of 1970.  
    In `73 the 351 CJ moniker was dropped, substituted for the 351 HO. 
    Again, a cleveland motor, but I'm not sure how it is distinguished from
    the `72 351 CJ.
    
    My Ford manuals lists the `72 Q motor as the 351 CJ, and indicates
    availability with Automatic and Manual Trannies.
    
    The block part number for a `72 351CJ should be D2ZZ-6009-C
    The heads for that motor should be part number  D1ZZ-6049-C
    
    That's all I had time to look up last night, I'll post more info
    tomorrow regarding intake manifold #'s, distributor #'s and any other
    identifying info.
    
    Hope this helps.
                                   
    Tom

    the Q motor is definately a 351.  there were two 351's available in the
    mustang (177hp-2bbl, and 266hp-4bbl).  according  to my 1976 motors
    manual the Q is the 266hp version.  the motors manual also lists a "cj"
    motor but only on the torino at 248hp. there is a "R" motor listed also
    as a 4bbl high performance but shows no usage or horsepower.  seems
    like there is a lot of mystery around these motors.  i'm sure there is
    an expert out there somewhere tho...

    Re: .30

        Thanks Tom.  BTW, Where are the #'s on the block & heads?  I had one
    source tell me the block # was in front by the water pump, another said
    it was on the side by the oil filter, and still another that it would be
    on the passenger side, below the manifold.

        Also, one of the previous owners replaced the distributor.  Since this
    is a "High Performance" engine, would I be safe to assume that it should
    have a dual point set up?  The distributor he put in is single point, and
    180 degrees out.



        Thanks,


                            John

    
    Truthfully i can't tell you where to find the numbers on a 
    351, but I'd guess you will find it in one of the locations you
    mention.  On the heads, the numbers will either be between exhaust
    ports or under the valve cover somewhere.  Also, the numbers I supplied
    may not actually appear on your motor.  They were part numbers, while
    it is usually casting numbers that appear on Ford motor parts.
    
    The confusion on this motor grows daily! One of my Parts manuals lists
    the `72 Q code as a 351 CJ, whereas the other refers to it as a 351 HO.
    Bottom line?  BOTH are very desireable, possessing such features as:
    
    1. 4 bolt main bearings (yes, I thought those ended on the `71 Boss 351)
    2. High nodular crank
    3. 2.19" intake valves
    4. Forged rods
    
    I'll post more information tomorrow.  
    
    Tom
    
    

My '66 289 Mustang has a strange pulsing problem (for lack of a better term)
at speeds over 30 or so.  It surges slightly as you drive it (at speeds from
30 up to 70).  The car has all new Ford/Autolite ignition parts, and a Holley 
OEM 2-bbl replacement carb (not a performance series carb).  Dwell is right
on, and the runout on the distributor doesn't seem excessive.  Compression is 
fine, and the car starts/idles flawlessly.  The fuel filter is new.  

It felt like an ignition problem, so I re-routed all the wires so they were 
not parallel to each other.  No difference.  I put on a Holley electric choke, 
but it opens fully, and shouldn't be causing the problem anyway, unless the 
plate was flapping shut, but it is damped.  I've tried different brands of 
leaded gas, and found no difference (gasahol or MTBE).  

It just struck me that it could be a minor transmission slip (C4 auto), and
that I should attach my digital tachomoter and see if I can watch a slight RPM
increase.  The trans bands are adjusted and I have no reason to think it is
slipping.  It shifts fine.


If the jets were semi-plugged in the carb., could that cause this surging? 
The car doesn't feel lacking in power, and will blast right up to 90 without
any problems.  

Where do I go next?   Does this sound more carb. related or more ignition 
related?  


Thanks for any advice,


Steve

    Could the needle & seat in the float bowl be leaking! Overflowing
    into the throats every nth second! 
    
    Probably wouldn't be noticeable at idle, "steady overflow condition">
    
    But at speed, the first overflow would cause the car to surge forward
    and dump more fuel from the float bowl. Once that fuel it consumed and
    the speed levels out, it would take a little time to overflow again as
    the level is lower.
    
    Keep us posted!
    
    Good luck|!
    Randy

>    Could the needle & seat in the float bowl be leaking! Overflowing
>    into the throats every nth second! 
    
>    Probably wouldn't be noticeable at idle, "steady overflow condition">
    
 >   But at speed, the first overflow would cause the car to surge forward
 >   and dump more fuel from the float bowl. Once that fuel it consumed and
 >   the speed levels out, it would take a little time to overflow again as
 >   the level is lower.
  

Good point - I adjusted the needle/seat several months back, and found that the 
bowl level was a bit too low, according to specs.   Perhaps it was low 
because that's where it should have been!  I was adjusting to combat a different
problem. 

It's an easy adjustment on the Holley, so I'll give it a shot.


Thanks,


Steve

Well, I checked the fuel level in the float bowl yesterday, and it was low
by 1/8+".  I raised it (by adjusting the needle/seat position) and now the 
surging is the same or worse.  

I'm wondering if the needle/seat aren't worn out.  Since I have to special order
the rebuild kit for this Holley (and it's $30 or so), I may just rebuild the 
OEM carb. I have, and slap it back on.  The Ford/Autolite carb looks 
suspiciously like a Holley, anyway, and the kit is $11-17 depending on the 
brand.

Steve

	Well, I gave up temporarily on the Holley, and rebuilt an OEM '67 Ford/
Autolite 2bbl.  It idles fine, but runs rough under no-load conditions as you 
rev it up around 2000 rpm.   I can't tell whether it is running rich or lean, 
but the float level is at factory spec.  On the road, it does fine - 
no surging, and a more linear throttle response than the Holley replacement.  


	The jets in this Ford carb. are labelled "45-F" - and the dealer can
get me 43-F, 46-F, 47-F, or 48-F jets.  They have no idea what jet was supposed
to be in there, and consequently no idea what a good higher-altitude jet might
be.  The dealer surmised that the "-F" suffix referred to something other than
the number-size of the jets.  I'm wondering if the carb. needs slightly smaller
jets to handle the 6200 ft. of elevation.

	Does anyone know what jets should have come in a 2bbl. factory '67 carb.
for a 289 Mustang?


Steve

    
    Last night, while poking around underneath the Cougar I discovered
    what I hope isn't a problem.  On the front frame rails, directly 
    under the upper control arm where the shock tower and frame meet
    appears to have cracked about 1" on drivers and passenger sides
    Visually, like this:
    
                    /----\ <------ Shock tower
                   /      \
                  /  .  .  \     . . denotes upper control arm bolt holes
                --***--------
    		-------------    *** denotes location of crack
                       ^   
                       |----- Frame rail
    
    2 questions;
    
    1) if this is a stress crack, is it a common and easily remedied
       problem?
    2) Are these not cracks at all but some type of designed in drainage
       hole?
    
    I'd appreciate any feedback.
    
    Tom
    
    

While in Australia last month I was looking at a RHD conversion of one of 
these cars.  Seems the gummit requires a steel plate be welded over this 
area if the Yankee vehicle is to receive an engineer's approval (necessary 
for registration of any car with modifications) as it's a known weak spot.  
Since Victoria doesn't allow LHD vehicles, everything must be converted and 
pass an engineer's scrutiny.  Conversion equates to modification.  
Modification means an engineer's certification.  W/o the reinforcement, it 
won't pass.

    
    Hi Skip,
    
    I spoke with Mustangs Unlimited this AM and they concurred is
    is a common stress crack which is easily repairable with a weld
    bead.  However, on the inside of the shock tower is a 1/4"
    plate designed to reinforce the shock tower where the control
    arms mount.  The fellow at Mustangs Unlimited suggested a beefier
    export brace as a future remedial measure,
    
    Thanks for the prompt reply,
    
    Tom

    
    Be careful welding the high aloy steels used in todays unibody cars. If
    you do not use proper welding methods, you could make the situation
    worse. (Mad Weldor ???)  TIG welding is the prefered method I believe. 
    
    Don B
    

    OK......It's my turn. Actually the area that is cracked was MIG welded at
    the factory. Ford Motor Co. has been using Linde #83 welding wire in
    the manufacture of their cars for many years. It has good elongation
    and a tensil strength over 120,000 psi. Also the steel used in that
    area is nothing real special, just 1010 hot rolled steel. The part is
    fixtured and welded at the factory, the problem is that no one figured
    it would be an area that is slightly flexed and it cracked. The area
    was meant to take the power weight and torque of a six cylinder... when 
    the V8's were used and drivers "used" there cars....well you know.
    
    That's all I can relay to all of you, from a former welding engineer
    from Ford. The fellow passed on about a month ago, after 40 years
    with the company.
    
    TMW...Jim
    
    ps the reason I had contacted this fellow was that we, here in WFO
    manufacturing, will be welding preplated steel in many of our new
    enclosures, and I needed some info.

Hi,

	I have a '76 Mustang II Mach I with a 302cu in it.  I recently
had a valve job done on it.  After replacing heads and intake and
connecting all the vacuum hoses together I found that I could not remember
where the vacuum line from the modulator connects to.  I know it uses vacuum
from the intake manifold but I be darn'ed if I can find the hole it goes into.

The steel vacuum line from the modulator has a short rubber tube connected to 
it at the back of the engine compartment, connected to this was another steel
tube that connects somewhere.  The problem is I can not figure out where it
goes.  Consequently, the car idles like it has a race cam in it ( it does'nt)
and I have to manually shift the C4 and I can't get into third.

Anyone out there with words of wisdom willing to help my short term memory?

Thanks,

Jerry Lowry

    Jerry,                                                         
    I believe on most 302's the line connects just under the carb. into the 
    manifold. There is a tapped hole into the manifold in the rear.
    
    TMW,
    
    Hint: I liked to use a clear heavy plastic hose on the connection at
    the manifold. I then could tell if the modulator goes bad...you can see
    tranny fluid in the hose. For some reason or another I ruined several
    new modulators with the hi-po that I had in my 64 Ranchero. This method
    is not a "must do thing" but it worked in my application, maybe cause
    I was a little hard on both trans. and the engine....   :-)

Thanks,

	My short term memory was really short term.   What I thought connected
to the modulator line really connected to the exhaust manifold for the electric
choke.  The modulator tube was connected where the choke connect should have
been.  Runs great now that the vacuum is not in my brain.  


Jerry

    	I'm in the process of buying a 5.0 Mustang.  I have about $5-6K to
    spend.  I would like to get a solid car that I could commute about
    40 miles round trip to work each day.  I would also like to get a bit
    more performance without giving up a lot of drivability.
    
    	Can anyone give me some tips?  What should I look for and
    especially what should I watch out for!  I'm somewhat mechanical and
    like to do my own work.  Based on my budget and what I've been seeing
    in the wantads a ragtop is out but I could swing something in the
    1986-88 range.  Are there any pro's and con's that I should know about
    in these specific years?  
    
    	Thanks in advance for your help.
    
    	Tom
    
    

    What do you think a fair price for a '70 Mach I is??
    
    The car is in pretty primo shape, 351C 4bbl, shaker hood,
    interior decor group (dash-clock, auto-flipping-seats etc).  
    It's stock.
    
    Comments?

    
    Hi Tom,
    
    Try Menard Motors in Chester N.H.  He advertises a lot in Auto Hunter
    and specializes in late model Mustangs (LX's, GT's, SVOs) Some of his
    cars are recovered thefts, rebuilds, or insurance wrecks, but I think
    he does sell some just plain used Stangs.
    
    5-6K ought to buy a pretty clean 87-89 LX.
    
    Tom

    	Tom,
    
    	Thanks for the note, I'll check him out.  Any reason for the LX
    comment?  I was kinda leaning toward the GT becuse of the looks.  I
    thought the LX was basically the same car without the nice groung
    effects? Are there any other major differences?
    
    	T.C. 

    The LX is generally 300 pounds lighter than the GT.  300 lbs in the
    1/4 mile is 3/10ths of a second.
    
    The LX is considered spartan compared to the GT, but then most of the
    GT's options don't increase performance.  
    
    It depends what your looking for and how the car is optioned out.  The 
    GT is still a quick car considered to what else is available today.

A friend and myself were perusing the Auto Hunter a few weeks back looking
at Mustang GT prices(I am contemplating selling mine...but I want a lot more than
what you want to spend).  We noticed a lot of 'stangs from Brockton, but having
grown up in the south shore area and knowing what we know about the Brockton
Street racing scene...every time we saw a GT with a Brockton address we
immediately dismiss it as having been beat by some Waste-O(tm) types...oops 
another Brockton car... forget it:-):-)

    
       Re : -1
    
        No rust...decent shape, needs minor restoration, not a 100% point
    Car....
    
               $7K to $9k    depending on options and stuff....
    
       Prices have gone down lately, but a NICE mach 1 can go for $12K
    
    /Bob
    

    	Watch that stuff about Brockton! I was born and raised there. 
    Check out my log in note.  Only kidding!  I am from there but cringe
    every time I go back.  You're right about the street racing, at least in
    the "old days"  it was hot! and I was really into it.  I made hundreds
    of passes down Manley and West Chestnut st.
    
    	When I go there now I always see a lot of cruddy, beat cars with
    all sorts of junk accessories.  They usually have more money into the
    sub woffers then the engine and the kid driving has a backward baseball
    cap and an earing (and a gun!)
    
    	I agree that generally it isn't a good place to be looking for a Stang.
    
    
    	Thanks for your inpt.
    
    	Tom

    As I understand it, a 5.0L LX is *the* Q-ship of choice.  The GT's are
    badd-ass, but everyone KNOWS that...  The LX almost looks like my 
    fathers oldsmobile...'Cept for the duals poking out the back.
    
    I want one.

I don't think I've asked about this in this file, so here goes:

	My '66 Mustang has the original (as far as I can tell) C4, an early 
one, with a green-dot shifter (where the shift pattern is PRN2D1).  I had 
the trans. rebuilt at a local shop because it dumped all its fluid on the 
floor one day, and had worn clutches.  The transmission always had a problem 
with leaking when it was parked. 

	The rebuild shifts very well, and I am pleased with it, except for this:
Initially, every 12 days, the torque converter would drain back enough to 
overfill the trans, and dump fluid on the floor.  Now, it's more like every 8
days.  So, since it's not a daily driver, I find that it has leaked every other
time I go somewhere.

	The shop can't explain why, and claims that early C4s have a problem 
with this.  

	I've thought of simply extending (upward) the vent tube with a piece 
of hose, although I suspect the fluid will just seep from another place.  



	Is anyone aware of older C4s suffering from perma-leak conditions?



steve

    Gang,  help me out here...
    
    I've got some dough burning a hole in my pocket, and I would like to 
    purchase a late-model mustang with it.
    
    Basically, what I'm looking for is a '87 or better (injected), LX or 
    GT, 5.0L, 5spd.  Other than that, I'm not too fussy.
    
    Can someone summarize what to look for in one of these beasts, what
    model years had what features, and what options are nice/handy to have?
    Also, any typical mustang 'non-features' I should be on the look out
    for.  ...And of course, what prices look like 
    
    Tanks!
    Jeff

    Well, I did pick up the car I was looking for in (-.1).
    
    Anyway, we were talking about headers and removing corks.
    
    I understand that there is a doohicky in the airbox someplace
    that I an remove to let the motor breath a little better...  I'm
    told that removing that cork from the intake, and slapping on
    a (new) pair of larger-toob headers brings on the revs...
    
    This makes sense to me - I always did these tricks on my motorcycles,
    and it always made a difference at the expense of a little more
    induction noise and such... 
    
    Can anyone tell me where this baffle is located?
    jc
      

Jeff, late model Mustangs (and other late iron) are discussed at length over in
note 58. This was done in an effort to keep the conference more or less "pure"
from the standpoint of '60s and '70s musclecar worship :-). There's a bunch of
stuff already in that note about what to do for your mighty steed..........

Bruce

    Lookin' at getting any feedback on a '68 Mustang Fastback. Ground up
    restoration, original 4 speed 289 ci, new quarters and fenders with new
    crome. Interior is all original and re-done to Ford specs, all
    replacement parts are Ford. Car drives and looks like new. Asking price
    is 15,000 which translates into $9,0000 U.S. 
    
    Regards, 
    
    
    Sean
    
     

    Sounds like a lot of money to pay for a "new" but standard Mustang.
    I suppose if it's documented and you really want the car and are
    willing to spend the money (or make an offer)...
    
    9 grand is steep.  I wouldn't think of it as an investment. 
    I don't think the car is collectable, but I'm not a ferd guy.
    
    MadMike

    Would offer $12,500... Not the full $15,000 big ones. Have talked to 
    people up here and they said around the $12,000 mark would be a good
    deal, but not a great deal. That would bring it down to about 6-7 grand
    U.S. Was thinking of going to Arizona or North Texas to get a rust free
    car, but with the exchange and the cost of going down...I have to weigh
    all the factors. Also, I do want a 289ci with 4 speed. That is a must
    for me. Don't like the colour of this one much, Orange w/black GT strip 
    on the side, but it suits that particular car. Have driven that car and
    now I got the BUG!
    
    It's a lot of money for a weekend toy...
    
     

    
    The fastback standard engine in 68' was 302 or 351  for the fastbacks
    same for '69.  289 I believe is the incorrect engine, may have been
    swapped out.
    
      I can tell you for sure if I know the VIN tag #.
    
    /Bob

	Speaking of Mustangs.... A guy I know is interested in selling
a pretty unique one... It's a 1970 fastback, it was a 302 car, but is now
a 428(argh or is it 429?) car, it's a very clean car, although not all
original. For instance, its got "Grande" bucket seats, that, of course,
it shouldn't have. It's been repainted several times in it's life, and
that monster engine that's stuffed under the hood.

	He want's 7500 bucks for it...

Rick

    Ah, y'all want those mustangs that were rental cars and when you
    roll back the carpet, *whoops-dey-it-is*, roll bar brackets! :^O 
    
    Sean, here's your delima.  No doubt the guy spent a lot of $$$$ to
    put the car together, but is it worth it or not, that's the question.
    If you were to re-do the same thing, would you spend more/less/same
    amount than this particular car?  Is it cost effective, if you
    really really want a mustang.  Any mustang.  Or, do you want
    a SPECIAL mustang (Boss, Cobra, whatever), or do you want a
    351 BLUE one as opposed to Orange.  It's almost always cheaper to
    buy something that's already done.  Let this guy absorb the cost
    of the restoration.  Since it's nothing collectible, it's not in
    demand.  If it were collectible, there'd be no room to bargain on
    price.  "Here it is, here's what it'll cost you."  
    
    Get the VIN as a previous noter suggested, but I think that this
    is a nice, standard car, not even origonal.  Hell, even if it
    is origonal, 9 grand, or even 7 is A LOT of money for a '68 stang.
    I think my friend has a '68 in his driveway, still sitting there
    filthy with an Arizona tag still on it.  I could probably buy it
    for $1000.  Paint it ($1500) rebuilt 289 engine ($1000), clean it
    up ($2000) mechanical stuff ($1000).  $6500 (+/- $10000)  and I'm 
    stylin'.
    
    There were TONS of mustangs made over the years.  IMO: I think you 
    should get this car for a steal, or keep looking.

    A Quick re-read
    
    .60> Ground up restoration, original 4 speed 289 ci, NEW QUARTERS and
    fenders
    
    I'd be looking for photo's as well.  New quarters will rot real
    fast if done incorrectly.  Your in Canada too, where cars are
    known to disolve.  Check the floor, put it up on jacks, scrutinize
    photos, use a magnet all over the place.
    
    When I redid my Z/28 I took a lot of photos.  Sure I can say 
    "new this, or new that" but are you going to believe me?  Maybe
    this is why I'm skeptical.  Spend $9000, and in one year the
    molasses trick is up, the motors junk and the body's rotten.  Hey
    man, the interiors lookin fine, but you got an expensive pile of
    CrAp in your garage.
    
    Regards,
    MadMike

    
        12 years ago I ended up getting a 67 mustang GT fastback from a hic
    town in Arizona for only $400. I was not looking for one; My only
    priority was a fairly light, RWD car with a large engine compartment.
    I got it cheap cause there was no engine or trans but the body was dent
    and rust free. I dropped a 460 and a toploader in it and had years of
    fun in the New england area with this car.
    
         I think the point I am making is that there are still tons of cars
    in the extreme southwest that have rust free bodies wearing the
    original paint even, and you needent screw around for years welding in
    repair panels.  All it took for me was a 2 week vacation to drive
    around the southwest and when I found that car I rented a towbar and
    took it home to Boston.   Doesn't anybody do this sort of car hunting
    anymore?
    
    -john

    
    
    ....I went to Denver, Co. for my Mustang.  I wish I had the money to go 
    down South, like South Carolina or Georgia, even Florida.  My
    girlfriend was down in Tampa for 2 weeks and said there were many nice
    Drivers down there in very Good condition and the dealers even had some
    cheap prices....But, anyway.
    
         When buying a Mustang the buyer should have Knowledge of what
    to look for, and know how to Decode the part #'s  ect.... original
    equipment in good condition is worth something, but then again
    if you like Chrome, Fuzzy Dice, Stickers, and Womanizing airfresheners
    then you pay what you think its worth to you.  But the Rule to remember
    is
    
      Mustang Buyer  ....BeWaRe....
    
    /Bob  :-)
    
      

    
    
    	I have gone down South several times to purchase classic cars 
    	(Alabama, Tennessee) and am tentatively planing another trip in
    	the late June/July time frame. I have a couple of contacts that
    	may be able to assist in locating a vehicle.  I also may be
    	willing to get it to Massachusetts depending on the driveablity/
    	towability.
    
    	Send me mail off line if interested.
    
    	/andy
    

    Thanks for all the replies, as this is a LOT of $$$ and I want to be
    sure. Only thing hurtin' me now is the exchange from U.S. to CDN about
    40%-45% right now.
    
    
    Sean
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Hi, 
        anyone out there have any tricks to set up the throttle linkage
    from the original 302 4v to a 351c w/ a holley 750dp.If not what have
    some of you used aside of spherical rod ends? The ride is a '68 Cougar.
    
                                                   John

    It has been some time since an update, I've been thrashing wildly for
    the last 10 months to get the Cougar running, finally last Sunday,
    after 8 years on the engine stand the 351-C came to life for the first
    time :) in the garage through open headers no less :) :),fired on the
    first shot, had a trans fliud leak but that was it,broke in the cam,
    then fixed the leak(lousy flair on the supply line to the cooler).
    Pulled the rear end out Monday for a freshening,cleaning,and painting,
    the last greasy, nasty,job on the car.   
       Some of the recent goodies in the last 10 months inclued a fresh
    gasket set for the engine less rear main and heads,a fresh paint job
    for the same in IMRON light grey,same for the tranny,valve covers,oil
    pan,trans pan and bell housing done in black wrinkle, weiand aluminum
    water pump,motorsport chrome molly oil pump drive,B&M trans cooler,
    fairbanks shift kit,pro torque 2000-2500 rpm converter,carter electric
    fuel pump preceded by one of those fram hp trash can type filters,new
    fuel tank (stock), a motorsport/msd ignition module and coil w/a later
    model hei distributor,and a high torque gear reduction starter from 
    fomospo.  
            Painted the thing last Feb with Dupont `93 corvette forest
    green, added a `70 Boss Mustang 429 hood scoop and `69 Mach 1 rear
    wing,all painted the same color. The under carrage was shot with 
    Dupont Black Imron along with all the related suspension parts.
            Also finished up the custom dash with all auto meter,speed-o,
    tach,coolant temp,trans temp,oil press,fuel level,volts,and vac.
            Still waiting on the rear end bearings and seals,both bumpers,
    F&R seat upholstry,once the rear is back in and the breaks hooked up
    it needs to be wet sanded and then final assembly of the trimmings.
            Hopefully it will hit the HLO parking lot before the first snow
    fall but with a wedding and honeymoon comming up next month its gonna
    be close.  She does however keep asking when the back seat will be pu
    in.!!! :)
    
                                   ...........John