Conference vmszoo::rc

	The CRRC has had intense discussion over the past couple of months
about the wisdom of sharing a flying field a flying field with full size
undisciplined barnstormers at Crow Island in Stow. Chris Schuch has written
a petition which I have hardcopies of which he would like to have supported
by the CRRC membership. I forgot to mention that he, and I, are of the
opinion that it is crazy and potentially disastrous for the club, and maybe
to the hobby in this area, if an accident happens. Any DEC CRRC members that
would like to support this petition please contact me for a hard copy.

Anker

    Over the last several months our club has had a dramatic increase in
    glider guiders, all of whom also fly power and often on the same trip
    to the field.  A very few also fly choppers.  About a quarter of the
    members fly powered gliders.

    We all fly at the same field(s), so we are now beginning to see in
    earnest the problems of coexistence --- problems in safety and in
    convenience and courtesy.  Jeff (the safety officer) and I (the
    newsletter editor) have decided to propose a set of field rules to deal
    with the situation *before* we have a serious problem.  We don't yet
    have an example of something that has worked (or not) at other clubs.

    If your club has dealt with this situation without setting up a glider
    only field, please tell us how.  We already recognize that a glider
    field would help (especially in field acquisition), but it would almost
    certainly split the club.  Besides, the powered gliders present some
    glider-type problems that would remain at the power field.

    Alton  who knows most questions and few answers

    Alton,
    I've never heard of any cases of mixed use fields actually working
    on a long term basis, at least not in an organized club setting,
    as opposed to a bunch of guys just showing up at a vacant lot.
    
    If you do come up with something workable, I and a lot of people
    will be interested in knowing how you did it.
    
    Your point about splitting the club is right on the mark.
    This is not necessarily the end of the world, we have a few cross-over
    fliers in our club, and our glider club has amicable, cooperative
    relationships with the several larger power clubs. Better
    relationships, in fact, than the power clubs have among themselves
    where personality clashes and power struggles (pun  ?) have caused
    them to form splinter groups.
    
    However, the bottom line is that we would never consider using each
    others fields.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Terry
    

Al,

As long as there are high starts, there will be conflicts with the power guys.
The power flyers can pretty much stand in one spot and fly their planes out in
front of them without endangering anyone. The glider guiders, on the other hand,
are all over the place, stretching out high starts, fixing broken lines, flying
wherever the latest thermal takes them, and just in general using up a lot of
real estate. I don't mind having the gliders buzzing all around me because I
consider them relatively safe, and easy to avoid (as compared to a 6 lb plane
rocketing along at 60 mph with a prop turning 15,000 rpm on the nose).

Gliders and power had coexisted somewhat peacefully at the CRRC field, but 
recently one of the power flyers expressed concern about the high starts
drifting into the pits, which they occasionally do. Even at that field, which is
pretty big, there is no easy way to fly gliders there without somehow getting in
the way of the power guys, or stretching the high start across a walking path.
I have come to the conclusion that if I want to fly gliders, it's a lot less
hassle to go down to Wayland, or to the St. Marks school.  It doesn't upset
me that I have to do that, it's just the way things are. Anyway, I get more
flying in at a nice quiet glider-only field.

Dave

    I have a friend that belongs to a club that had the same problem 
    you are talking about. They decided to use a gliders/nopowered 
    aircraft in the AM. till 1 PM. then the power guys could take the 
    field for the rest of the day. You could vary the amount of hours 
    in ratio to the number of participants who soar or power, this would 
    fair . As to the chopper guys/gals, sorry no comment here.
    
    Regards ,
    
    Bob D.

Since I'm currently the only active chopper flyer in my club this 
may not be worth much but here's how I handle it. The vast majority of the power
flyers in our club get out in the morning and tear up the sky. Since I don't 
drag out of bed till 10 am on the weekends, they never see me. By late afternoon,
the crowd is down to at most three other flyers. We just take turns flying. They
like to watch the chopper fly and I can use a long break after flying. 

I don't fly the same time a fixed wing ship is up. I have to keep the chopper in
much closer than the normal fixed wing ship flys and don't want to get in the 
way of our power flyers. However, thinking about it tells me that flying the 
chopper is not that much different than Eric, Dan, and Charlie flying the x-IM's
in close. How do the other power pilots deal with that?

    Ware is developing this problem also. We have a big enough field to
    stretch out the highstarts away from the power portion of the field.
    The problem we see is frequency control. Keeping both ends aware of
    people waiting for pins is a problem. (getting people to wander back to
    the board after getting it is the real problem) We have a power
    restriction on the field in the early morning. The glider guys aren't
    restricted (noise is the issue). There isn't a lot of thermal air
    before 10am. We may look for a glider only sight in the future if
    glider interest increases (just a few of us in a power club)

    
    
    I'm new at the flying field and have seen some accidents ( new people
    at the field learning to fly mid air colitions,etc.) Would it be
    wise to suggest a beginners day where all the beginners and instructors
    meet at the field weekly to learn to fly?? I find it difficult to
    take mine up with a crowd of people watching. I'd like to go alone
    when no one is around.
    
    Bruce

    CMRCM has a novice night on thursday's when instructor's are generally
    available. The club in Ware that I belong to use to use saturday and
    sunday mornings. We generally stay down out of the air when a brand new
    person is flying so as not to distract them but eventually they need to
    learn to fly in the clubs normally busy skies. Are you asking about a
    specific club or just looking for feedback on how other clubs do it?

    
    I'm intersted in how other clubs do it. I did ask the president last
    night and he said they used too but no one showed up. Usually Sat. Sun.
    and Weds. nights draws the most atendance and thats when all the 
    instuctors are there. Last night there were as many as on a Wed.
    I did fly last night for the first time flying time about 5-10 min.
    Instructor said I did pritty good for the first time, I only handed
    him the Tx once. He said I was a little nervice. That was an
    understatment. There was a Sig kadet senior in the air at the same time
    . The field I fly at is KVMA Kenebec Vally Modelers Asso. Its about one
    hour north of Biddiford Maine.
    lokking for more feedback
    Thanks 
    Bruce
    

    Well, it really depends on your membership mix. In Ware we had almost
    50% of our members as novices a year or so ago. People were constantly
    calling up to find out when people would be at the field. We set a
    specific day/time aside to cut down on the calls. Most of these people
    are now solo so we haven't reintroduced it this year. Publishing the
    instructors names and phone numbers in the newsletter helps. The down
    side of having novice night is that they all show up at the field at
    once and each get a flight or two over a 3 hour period. If you can fit
    it into the schedule more dynamically, there is more attention paid to
    the individual student. A few flights in a row can help set things into
    someone's mind. This is hard if there are several students waiting for
    that instructor.

    Being an instructor, I've found that the best thing for a student to
    do is to just go to the field. Get to know 2 or 3 instructors rather
    than trying to latch on to just one. If you know 2 or 3, there's bound
    to be one of them there when you are.
    
    Steve

    Well, I would say it is beneficial to latch on to one person until you
    know what you are doing. The advantages are that he knows how far your
    skills have progressed, he knows your planes condition, and you can
    proceed at an steady pace...
    
    On the downside, you don't get to fly if this one instructor is
    busy/can't fly etc.. 
    
    Then again, I learnt at a snail's pace :-). However, you do reach a
    point when it doesn't matter who is with you, so long as he can save
    your plane in an emergency. Next step, you need a "body" to be next to
    you for moral support, then near you, but not necessarily next to you,
    and finally, you are on your own!!!
    
    ajai

    I kinda agree on one instructor till you get some confidence. the
    reason I say that is talking to two instructors last night one doesn't
    use rudder when landing and the other uses only rudder for the
    exception of elevator so if you have one tell you to and the other
    tells you not to it can get VERY confusing...

    The problem your having Bruce is that the club does not have a
    standardized method of instructing. CMRCM pretty much does. All
    instructors have to pass a "test" before being considered to be
    a qualified instructor. The bottom line is, handle it whatever way
    is best for you.
    
    Steve

    Well it finally happened!!!! Last night was our first begginers night.
    We had a club meeting meeting and 1/3rd of the guys were beginers.
    The majority of the club was in agreement to try it one more time and
    it worked out very well. The club rules are ussually three Tx /planes
    up and one in the pits getting ready. Thursday beginners night only
    two up and two in the pits getting ready. The two in the air flys one
    north and the other south. We have about 400 acres of pure field no 
    trees just a crop of corn in the north. Believe it or not last night
    was the best turnout we have had in months. There were 12 planes
    three of those were not students they were the ones that voted agains
    Thursday being beginners night, and four instructors. And there wasn't
    any planes that were rekited. Even saw some faces I havent seen since
    last season.
    
    Bruce