Conference vmszoo::rc

    
    If you really must have the slats I would think that a mercury
    switch could be used to actuate a servo. The landing gear can be
    done using air retracts and two air valves. one actuated by a servo
    and the second by a switch actuated by the retracting mains.
    
    						Tom

    re slats: Ya, that could be done...The only snag is that on the
    proto, their deployment was determined by airspeed, not the pilot.
    They are used to generate extra lift.
    
    md
    

RE: .0

>    1. The wing was designed with AUTOMATIC leading edge slots that
>    extend at low speed or during a climb. Messerschmidt has bought
>    the license right for this device from Handley-Page and used also
>    on the Bf 109. It'd be real cute if this device could implemented
>    on the model.. Anyone got any ideas on how it works on full size
>    planes and how it could be made to work on a model ???
    
This sounds NEAT! A mercury switch wouldn't work. The mercury will slop around
due to normal in-flight accelerations/decelerations and cause the slats to
extend/retract erratically. What the slats do is to delay the stall so that the
wing can work at a higher angle of attack. Since the elevator controls the
angle of attack and the wing stalls at a given angle of attack ... use a cam
(or whatever) on your elevator servo (hitting a switch to control another
servo??) to make the slats extend somewhere between the level flight and
stalled elevator positions. In level flight the slats will be retracted. During
either a hard turn/pull-up or when you slow down to land the change in elevator
position will cause the slats to extend. Don't know of anybody who's tried
this but it sounds like it will work.

I seem to recall that the full-scale auto slats worked by reacting to changes
in the air pressure difference between the top and bottom of the wing.
The wing loading on our models is so light that there may not be enough
of a pressure difference to make them work like the original.

G Schrader

    Their are many ways to actuate/activate a device such as SLATS on
    a model, but remember what the original intent was and the problems
    that occurred because of them and, perhaps, the answer becomes more
    obvious. Probably the most famous use of the SLAT was in the F-86
    fighter of KOREAN WAR fame. The AIR FORCE wanted an aircraft that
    could move out fast and furious and still have decent TAKEOFF and
    LANDING characteristics, i.e., low airspeed lift offs and landings
    with subsequent use of short runways, and ability to lift heavy
    loads at takeoff, fuel tanks, lots of ammo, etc. The SLAT fit the
    bill nicely, EXCEPT.........! The F-86 SLATS were aerodynamically
    actuated; LOW AIRSPEEE equals SLATS DEPLOYED; great for take off
    and landing, but YOU WERE A SITTING DUCK for a MIG-15 if you tried
    CLIMBING with him or TIGHT TURNING with him. In these cases, when
    airspeed bled off, the SLATS would AUTOMATICALLY DEPLOY, suddenly
    putting the anchor out and the F-86 would come to a stop! The MIG
    could now pick off the F-86 at will. The only recourse for the SABRE
    pilot was to immediately dive to get airspeed back up so the SLATS
    would retract; no dive, no airspeed, no SABRE! Darn hard to dive
    when you might already be right on the deck. The SABRE pilots had
    to be very careful that this "Great, automatic device: didn't kill
    them in combat. In KOREA, there was the idea that mechanical pins
    should be actuated by the pilots after takeoff SLAT retraction to
    "HARD-WIRE" the SLAT to a retracted position. This KLUGE didn't
    work and the final answer to the problem was to bring to KOREA a
    "HARD WING" F-86; IT HAD NO SLATS AT ALL IN IT'S WING!
    
    The answer to this problem, both for real airplanes and models is
    to MECHANICALLY ACTUATE THE SLATS by DIRECT LINKING WITH THE FLAPS;
    FLAPS DOWN FOR TAKEOFF AND LANDING - SLATS DEPLOYED FOR EXTRA LIFT
    FOR TAKEOFF AND LANDING! Look at ART JOHNSON'S F-100D in RCM; I
    believe that's what he does. The reason that he modeled this "DASH
    MODEL" of the 100 is that the F-100A and C did NOT have FLAPS; the
    "D" model DID! The only real place you NEED all that extra lift
    is for takeoff and landing and, perhaps, for slow flybys.
    

    I couldn't agree more with -.4.  This aircraft is going to be com-
    plicated and treacherous enough "without" some automatic (pronounced:
    un-controlled) device which might very easily deploy at "just" the
    wrong time and spill ya'!
    
    I agree that, if you feel you absolutely "must" have slats, put
    them on an auxilliary channel where "you" can select when to use
    them and how much you want to use. Linking them to the flaps "sounds"
    reasonable but I think I'd still prefer to be able to "control"
    the "when and how much" as opposed to being locked in by another
    function.
    
    I still hope you're approaching this project from a "5-years in
    the future" sort of perspective and plan to get yer'self LOTS of
    jet experience in the interim.
    
    Adios,	Al

    Hello Marc,
    
    Just as an aside, I noticed in one of the recent RC mags over here
    a report on a model show somewhere in Germany. One of the 'planes
    on display was a kit of a ducted fan ME262. There were precious
    little details, but I can try and dig out a bit more if you want...
    
    In the same vein, I'm pretty sure I have a three-quarter view, cut-away
    poster of a ME262 some where at home. I'd be happy to send it over
    to you via "snail mail" if you'd like a look at it. If you do, let
    me have your mail stop. Snail-mail is taking about 2 weeks from
    the UK to the US I understand, so it may be a while before you get
    it!
    
    I'm still at the "re-learning to fly" stage (10 year layoff), but this
    project sounds great (I drew some rough plans of a ME262 from an Airfix
    1/72 plastic kit once upon a time) and certainly stikes a sympathetic
    chord with me! I wish you all the luck you need. Keep us posted with
    the results. 
    
    Keith.

    Keith, I'll take anything you can dig up. A kit would be a good
    way to go. If you dig up the mag trygetting in touch with the guy
    that wrote the article or the editor. You may get a pointer to the
    guy who organized the show....etc.. 
    
    I'd love to see a poster.. I got a book written by one of the guys
    who worked on the restoration of the Me-262 at the National Air
    & Science museum in Washington. It had a double page spread cutaway
    and a couple of rather detailed blueprints(detailed enouhg to give
    wing airfoil measurments relative to wing chord). 
    
    Im givng serious thought in attempting to digitize the plans I get
    into a Mechanical CAD program. (we have a demo place right he in
    MRO). That way, if I have to diddle, life is lot easier.
    
    md

    Marc,
    
    I'll dig out the poster and send it on. I haven't checked into the kit
    yet, but will do in the near future. I contacted Dennis Bryant who is a
    respected scale modeller and designer here in the UK (do you design
    scale models??) about ME262 plans. He doesn't do a set and doesn't know
    of anyone else who does. Looks like I'm going to draw a blank on the
    plans side. However, one glimmer of hope is that the Areomodeller Plans
    Service do scale drawing sets with various amount of detail about the
    subject and they do have drwaings of the ME262. If you like, I can look
    into that one too. 
    
    Keep the details coming! The way my enthusiam is being whetted,
    I'll be looking for some plans myself soon!! (not until I've sorted
    one or two problems however - see 321.0)
    
    CU,
    
    Keith.

    You can plans from a German publisher:
    
    	Verlag Fur Technik & Handwerk
    	Postfach 1128
        7570 Baden-Baden
        Germany                  tel 011 49 44 71 826 34
    
        Attn:   Herr Weicking
    
        Plan # MT 358    Price 39 marks + 5 marks handling
    
        Scale: 1/6.2
    
        Wing airfoil is half-symmetrical. Designed for propellers. Engine
        size 1,4-2,6 HP. Other details on model are in .1
    
        I've gotten in touch with Mr Weicking & he sez that modifying
        the plans for ducted fan would easy. I'm trying to get them
        to do the mods for me (preferably at their expense).
    
        He mentioned to me that a pair of fans generating each 3.5 -
        4 Kp (I think he meant Kg) of thrust would OK. A Kress 740
        or an Dynamax 003 with a .45 would apparently do the trick).
    
        This last statement was however contradicted by stating that
        mods would be done for a fan with a 65-80 motor.
    
        Oh yes, the model is designed for the following:
    
    		Throttle
    	 	Rudder
    		Elevator
    		Ailerons
    		Retracts
    
    	Apparently Flaps can be also installed.
    
        No mention of the Slats.
                  
        (That's 7 channels so far. ). I think I'd also consider brakes
    	so that the engines can revved up on take-off. 
    
        No. I don't do plans. I'd rather build. I have a sneeaky suspicion
    	I may have to do substantial work on the  wing if I want slats
        and flaps... BTW, the airfoil on the proto is symmetrical. 
        
    
        AT the moment, my thinking is to build the model as the plans
        calls for. Then look into redoing the wing so that it's closer
        to the proto.
    
    
        md   
                     

    re .-2 and Aeromedeller Plan Service: Is that the same stuff that
    Argus Pubs advertives in RCM&E. If so, I'm already getting what
    they have (Me-262 A-1a). If not, more details pls...
    
    BTW, if you know anyone in Germany, ou may want to see what they
    can glean from german language modeller press. My german has almost
    20 years of rust on it but I think I could deal with that.
    
    md

    Seen in Model Aviation, Nev 87 issue, p 185:
    
    Twin Sync System: Maintains perfect sync of engines over entire
    RPM range. Use two servos (but only needs 1 channel).
    
    Ok, so how does it work: Two magnets are mounted on the spinner
    of the engines. Use Hall effect sensors and a comparator, one engine
    is defined as the master, the other as the slave. The comparator
    adjusts the throttle of the slave using the master as a reference.
    (from a quick conversation with the guy who designed & sell this
    garget)...  Cost: 67$. 
    
    There is a ducted fan version that uses a optical sensor instea
    of a magnet.. That's 10$ extra..   Been on the market for at least
    4 years.. 
    
    
    ANyone care to commment on what kind of grief (if any) is likely
    to come from installing such a device .
    
    I can see on big benefit: The RPM on both engines is gooing to be
    the same. Also, is the master cuts out, the slave is going to do
    same. (nice safety feature to prevent the dive that Al described)
    
    md
    

    Seems to me that Byron has a sequencing system for retracts that
    is used on one of their jets.
    

    What do you do when the slave cuts out?  
    

    Work like hell to save the plane...
    
    The ME262 1:1 was controllable by jusdiscious use of the rudder
    to compensate for the thrust moment so far out on the wing.
    (this i got from reading flight reports/instructions from german
    and allied pilots. Probably easier said than done)
    
    My guess is one would want to throttle back in a hurry and
    basically "dead stick" it down. Premise here is that the plane has
    the ground clearance and a flying attitude that will permit that.
    
    Otherwise, you end up doing the same thing the 1:1 version did:
    Crash due to uncontrollable dive..  
    
    md

>    What do you do when the slave cuts out?  


  It was entered as 'when the master cuts out'...    

  When/if the 'master' engine fails (out of gas, stall...), the slave
engine will also stop (IE: you are in for a dead stick landing).

    Yup.. Master goes and slave goes also and you dead stick. The good
    thing is that is the slave goes, you *know* which engine is still
    running and therefore hopefull will have the time/airspace to 
    react appropriately.
    
    md

    Got more info in the mail about the motor sync gadget.
    
    Seems if the master quits, it uncouples the slave so you get at
    least one engine. This leaves the pilot to guess which one is dead.
    
    I'll have to investigate if it is possible to modify the thing to
    behave the way I would "like" it too: If master quits, you dead
    stick (ie slave quits too). If slave quits, you still have the master
    available and get to work some to get the plane back on the ground
    in one piece
    
    BTW, there a 4 motor version available 
    
    md
    

    Al's comment in an other note about fuel consumption got me thinking
    about some of the weight budget.
    
    OK, so we have two engines & fan. I figure about 16 oz apiece.
    You also have to allow for fuel. Figure two tanks (placement probably
    for & aft of the cokpit, like the proto) each 16 oz capacity. That's
    another 32 oz in weight. Now we have the flight pack (servos, battery
    pack, Rx).  
    
    Figure a potential for eight channels.(rudder:1 servo,
    elevator: 1 servo. throttle: 2 servos. flaps: 1 servo. ailerons:
    1, maybe 2 servos,  retracts: 1 servo, Slats: 1 servo. Brakes:
    1 servo. These last two option will probably left out but one
    should plan for it anyway). Count on 2 battery packs to service
    all that. Figure 40 oz.  (For those who wonder whether this will
    all fit, let me mention the the fuse is about 10 inches in diam
    at the cokpit). That gives about 4- 4.5 lbs and still no airframe.
    
    Count on at least 10 pounds for the airframe. Now this subject
    (airframe) brings to mind what materials to use. I got a recommendation
    to use Carbon fiber 'cause this plane is going to be able to hit
    150 mph with no problem. Thing need to be rigid to hand the stresses.
    I can see more $$$$ flying away. 
    
    I would tend towards wood (ply for formers, balsa for sheeting..)
    (i know how deal with that. Carbon fiber would entirely new to me)
    
    
    Anyone got any input on this ??
    
    tx,
    
    md
    

    After some old gumshoe work & a tip, I now have hard info on a ME-262
    ducted fan kit.
    
    I got a note from Tom Sprecher telling me that he had run across
    a "how to do it" mag on ducted fans. In this mag, there was was
    a reference to a ME-262 kit. I got him to get me a copy of the mag
    (after appropriate cajoling & offers of suds money).
    
    As mentioned previously, a company called Air Flair builds such
    a kit. Now I was a bit concerned 'cause the mag said the info
    on ducted fan kit manufacturer went back to 1981. The mag also
    mentioned the model had been designed by one Tom Cook (shown in
    the mag with a nice F4 Phantom).
    
    hey, what the hell, so I fired off a letter (the address listed
    is in Kansas City) since ATT has no phone number under that name.
    
    Last night, I got home and had this letter waiting for me containing
    kit complete specs:
    
    Scale: 2" = 1' - wingspan: 84", fuse length:69"
    Flying weight: 15 - 19 lbs (15 optimum)
    Power: Dynamax unit with .60 size engine
    
    Kit contains:
    	- fiber glass fuse with molded vertical stab
    	- left & right engine nacelle matche to wing plan form
    	- 2 cowlings & cowling liners (fiberglass)
    	- 2 DF tail pipe
    	    (All part made of polyester resin & 2 layers FG cloth)
    	- .40 canopy
    	- 3 sheets (36X48) full size plans. Shown on plan are all ribs
    	  dihedral braces, bulkheads, bellcrank mountlayout for flaps,
    	  ailerons. Engines, & detail drawing of landing gear doors,
          etc.
    	- 2 sheets factory drawing package, one sheet showing camouflage
    	  layout.
    	- 3 sheets of stencil layouts
    
    Price: $295. shipped vie freight line collect.
    
    All wood parts for wing, rudder, stab etc not included in kit !!!

    I tyhnk I'm going to try to buy the plans only, so I can get an
    idea of what I'm getting into !!

    
    Oh! Almost forgot the address:
    
    	Air Flair Mfg Co.
    	Box 11702, 
    	Kansas City, MO, 64138
    	tel: 816 353 7854
    
    (BTW, there is an other Air Flair Co in the model plane business.
     They are located in Fairborn OH. See ad on page 4 of RCM, Jan 88)

    Marc,
    
    Please believe that my purpose for reiterating the following statement
    is not to discourage you but to, again, urge the utmost caution
    in approaching the ME-262 project.  Like you, I've always been
    fascinated by the -262 and count it among my all-time favorite WW-II
    aircraft but I'll never build one.  The large investment of time/ 
    effort/expense versus the high potential for losing the ship to
    the deadly assymetric thrust of an engine-out situation simply cannot
    be balanced in my personal ledger...and that's with considerable
    twin recip-engine time in my R/C log book.
    
    I applaud yer' dedication and wish you ultimate success pursuing
    the -262 project.  I feel I'd be less than open with you if I didn't
    offer for your consideration the fact that Tom Cook discontinued
    personally kitting the -262 after losing 3-consecutive Masters-quality
    ME's to the dreaded assymetric thrust syndrome.  On the occasion
    of our first meeting, I asked Tom about the -262 as I was interested
    in it myself and he warned me off saying that if it "ever" became
    a truly successful model, it'd do it "without" him.  He said he was
    thoroughly disgusted with it and had washed his hands of it "forever." 
    These thoughts/impressions came from a highly experienced jet modeler
    who ejoys the earned reputation of being one only 3 modelers considered
    to dwell on the leading-edge of jet technology.  I respected his advice
    and took it!
    
    Please go into this project with eyes "wide" open and honestly consider
    and appreciate all the possible ramifications.  
    
    Adios and, sincerely, best of luck,		Al

    I was going to prefix my last note with:
    
    "I can hear Al from here: Don't touch it, you'll be sorry".
    
    but I decided to leave him the privilege..
    
    I can only answer this: Just because there have been many failures
    doesn't mean one should not try again. Eventually, sufficient knowledge
    will be gained that allows to deal with the problems. As an example
    that why I got interested in the engine synchronizer to try to 
    address the 1-engine out problem.  Besides I'd like to given the
    opportunity to fail.
    
    At the moment, it's not built. And its not likely to be built soon
    'cause of budget consideration. My disposable income has suffered
    major trauma due to the fact that my mechanic found a way to
    dump my TV, VCR & tape deck on the floor (climbed on rocking chair
    to reach cable TV converter, rocking chair went dragging mechanic
    holding to converter for dear life, converter is attached to TV
    that is attached to VCR that has tape deck on top of it.). Alles
    kaput... 
    
    I also need to complete my RC training program. That is going to
    take a while too and more $$. I will in all likelyhood build other 
    ducted fan models before the ME-262 to find out if I really want 
    to go forward into that area of RC.
    
    AL, the advice is well taken and I understand very well the risks
    and consequences. I'm trying my damnest to minimize/reduce them.
    
    TTFN
    
    md
    

    RE:-1
    I just have to ask. Is "my mechanic" another name for you? 8^)
    
    Dan Eaton

>    'cause of budget consideration. My disposable income has suffered
>    major trauma due to the fact that my mechanic found a way to
>    dump my TV, VCR & tape deck on the floor (climbed on rocking chair
>    to reach cable TV converter, rocking chair went dragging mechanic
>    holding to converter for dear life, converter is attached to TV
>    that is attached to VCR that has tape deck on top of it.). Alles
>    kaput... 

Check out your household/renters insurance.  You would be surprised what
they cover.  I have had my sliding glass door replaced because it
fogged up inside and my freezer replaced because it burned up.
In the first case glass breakage.  The insurance rep said there must be a
crack (even tho hidden under an edge) or else it wouldn't fog up between
the thermo panes.  In the second case since the motor actually had caused
flames it was covered by fire insurance.  Sounds like a household accident
to me.

              _!_      
Bye        ----O----   
Kay R. Fisher / \     

================================================================================

    re .-2 Mechanic is 5 yr old son.
    re .-1 Already did. Insurance covers 17 "perils" (war, flood, malicious
           damage, fire, etc.) and damage to stucture (like son putting
           rocks through windows). This case not covered. Now if my
    	   father had tripped and done all this, I'd be all set. His
           insurance would cover that.
    
    md

    Ok.. I ordered the plan set from Air Flair. Got them Friday. 
    
    There are a number of deviations from the prototype. 
    
    First the nacelles or 1/2 inch bigger in diam (this was done to
    accomodate the dymanax unit). The VIOJETT will fit is a scale sized
    nacelle (6 inch). Also the engine opening is 5 inches (dynamax fan size).
    If the opening is scale it should be 3 inches. Now this may not 
    be feasible if one wants to get good performance. I have to 
    contact Bob Violett on this one.
    
    This wing airfoil is Semi-Symmetrical and much fatter than the
    original.A quick measurment showed that the lower half of the airfoil 
    appears to be close to the proto's airfoil. The wingtips also are not
     scale. It makes the wing look funny. The incidence is 0 deg. 
    (not suprising is airfoil is different). Proto had +2 deg.
    
    The elevator hinging is done straight. On the proto, the hinging
    line was almost parallel to the stab leading edge. 
    
    The rudder hinging line goes the full length of the fin. This is
    not the case for the proto.
    
    The main landing gear does not appear to be located properly (wider
    track)  I'll have to look at this one in more detail.
    
    The fuse outline looks on the money. This is difficult to judge
    cause the  kit has a fiberglass fuse. There are no fuse details
     in the plan set 
    
    (Hey, Al: Did Tom Cook make a built-up fuse (formers & sheeting)
     in his first versions or did he go to a fiberglass fuse directly ??
    If he did the former, I'd love to get my hands on the originals)
    
    I think I'm also going to get the version from the outfit in germany
    & compare the details. 

    Marc,
    
    Tom built a plug and pulled a fiberglass fuse from it for the prototype
    and subsequent models.  To the best of my knowledge, he never had
    any drawings for a conventional built-up fuse.
    
    Adios,	Al

    I must admit I'm not too suprised given the size of the model.
    
    A couple of other things I forgot to mention: The stap airfoil
    is also thicker than the proto.. The flaps are shorter (that because
    the nacelles are bigger. The ailerons are somewhat longer and 
    
    
    The wing is well designed for rigidity with a laminated former running
    just about the whole length of the wing. It also builds the dihedral
    right in. Save on grief...

    md

    Marc,
    
    The differences [departures from scale] yer' noticing are not in
    the least unusual for a jet.  As you've correctly surmised, the
    DF unit "requires" certain concessions be made to such things as
    nacelle diameter, air-intake area, etc. and these concessions "can"
    "domino" into other deviations, vis a vis the smaller flaps.
    
    Also, aifloil sections are frequently changed to make them more
    suitable/safer than a scale arifol might be to model application.
    Even Cooks F-4 has many small deviations such as larger air intake
    scoops to enhance the operation/reliability of the DF unit(s).
    
    Correcting hinge-lines, minor outline corrections, etc. won't cause
    any grief but I'd be careful of altering airfoils, areas, moments, force
    arrangements [incidence], etc. cause there's most likely a verrry
    good reason they're the way they are, no doubt arrived at the "hard'
    way, i.e. by trial [crash] and error.
    
    Adios,	Al

    no debate form me on these, especially the wing airfoil mods.
    
    At the moment, the only things I'd even consider changing would the
    nacelles outer diameters (make them smaller) to fit the VIOJETT
    with a straight-through air flow, adjust the flap size to match,
     rework the wing tips and rudder/elevator hinge lines to have 
    "more scale" appearance.
    
    AIrfoil re-do, leading edge slats and scale engine inlet/outlets 
    would be left for evaluation for a follow-on version.
    
    Btw, an other interesting oberservation: I recall plan locations
    for servos & Rx but nothing for fuel tanks. This was most noticeable
    'cause rudder & elevator servo are mounted right against the back
    of the cokpit bulkhead. That where the fuel tank is located in the
    proto. Anyone got any ideas on this one. A pair of 11cc (.77) engines
    of going to require a fair bit of the stuff and that takes up space,
    not to mention weight. (Under the cokpit is out of the question,
    thats where the main gear is stored in flight.
    
    md

    Marc,
    
    The "saddle" tanks commonly used in jets where engine(s) is/are mounted
    conventionally in the fuselage are probably out of the question owing
    to the restricted available space in the nacelle(s)..."unless" you
    could go to the smaller Viojett DF units and, by retaining the larger
    [non-scale] nacelle intended for the Dynamax, have space to mount
    a pair of saddle tanks in each nacelle.  To me, this would be ideal,
    though the additional weight out in the wings might be undesireable
    from a stability perspective.
    
    Most likely, Tom used a main tank(s) in the fuse with (ARRRGGGGGGH!!)
    pumps to provide the necessary fuel draw to the engines.  Gawd! I'd
    hate to add one more potentially unreliable factor to an already
    tenuous setup!  Fuse mounted tanks would also necessitate some sort
    of coupler/decouplers in the fuel lines, another potential problem
    area...air leaks would "literally" kill you with this bird.  Only
    other thing I can think of is mounting the tank(s) on or in the
    wing.  Kent Walters uses sort of a "wet-wing" setup in his 13' B-17
    in that he built fuel-bays right into the wing, into which he inserted
    plastic hospital IV bags which feed small header tanks in each
    of the four nacelles via a Robart (ARRGGGGH!!) pump on each O.S.
    .90.  The system is far from proven at this stage as it's only been
    tried once during the [so far] sole flight of Kent's beauty.  Kent
    "did" run exhaustive tests of the system in an Ugly Stik prior to
    installing it in the "Fort," however, and it "seems" to work OK.
    Kent's concerns about building a vacuum as the IV bag is pumped
    out "seem" to have been unfounded though he/we don't fully understand 
    the why of it.  My advise, once you've progressed to that stage,
    would be to get plenty of input from the likes of Larry Wolfe, Bob
    Violett, Tom Cook or, you've got a real good jet jockey reasonably
    close to you (New Jersey) in Bob Fiorenze.  You certainly can't
    afford any half-assedness in this vital/critical area.
    
    Adios,	Al

    For what it's worth: I vaguely remember seeing a plan for an ME-262
    driven by a single .40 (prop) with a span of about 1.4m. 
    
    This might be an interesting hack model to learn a little about
    the flying charateristics, assuming that it's reasonably close to
    scale etc. etc.
    
    Let me know if you are interested and I will research the source.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Tony

In the December 1987 issue of Model Builder there is an article
on Jets At The Belleville Fly-In, which mentions Dr. Jack Tse's
fleet of planes: "In addition to the SR71s, F-18s, and ME-262s
that Jack brought last year...."

Jack Tse is well known for showing up with a large fleet of
planes. The article states that he produces "fiberglass, foam,
and machined specialty parts for his designs on a custom basis."

I even have an address and phone, from the mag:

Dr Jack Tse
Suite 102,
3040 Palstan Road
Mississauga, Ontario Canada

Phone: (416)275-7256

This information was printed on pages 85 and 86 of the mag.

    re .-2 : one engine in the nose would not be cheating all: The me-262
    V1 had just that configuration. They had the airframe ready before
    the engine. Henschel was having a devil of a time getting the power
    up to spec so the engineers decided to test the airframe.
    
    re .-1 I'l gert in touch with him. tx for the tip.
    
    md

    
    I'm new to DEC and to notes, but have a interest in RC in general
    and ducted fans in particular. My father has a close friend who
    has been building ducted fans for 25 years. His name is Mike Kulczyk
    and he now calls Austin, Texas home. He wrote a ducted fan column
    in one of the magazines, but I'm not sure if he still does or which
    magazine it is/was. Anyway, several years ago, he built a Me-262
    which flew very well. I'm not sure the engine size, but it had 
    retracts, flaps, etc. If your interested, I'll be glad to get you
    his address and phone#. Mike is a very nice person who is a long
    time addict to this, and I'm sure he would be more than happy to
    talk to you.
    
    					Jim		
    
    
    

    Hey, I'll take any help I can get and any possible source for Me-262
    designs.  
    
    tx in advance
    
    md

    Marc
    The Autumn 1986 copy of the English magazine Radio Control Scale
    Aircraft Quarterly has a design for 262 driven by a single OS40 with
    prop. The plan is available from the publishers:
    Plan number RSQ 1525 
    ASP Plans Services
    PO Box 35
    Wolsey House, Wolsey Road
    Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 4SS
    U.K.
    Price is #6.25( pounds sterling)
    
    The same magazine has a description of the prototype and a part
    view of their scale drawings. These are sold as plan number 2891
    price #1.80.
    
    Please send me your mail address if you want a copy of the (brief)
    construction article.
    
    Tony
    

    	while visiting the local pusher at lunch today I saw a 262 Master
    Scale kit in plastic 1/32 scale for 60US. It was/is put out by a
    Japanese outfit (Hegwa I think) and looks like it has details up the
    .... You might want to look into it as a reference for you project.
    Maybe use it to see what details you want or can include and which
    to leave out to make room for the radio and related gear.
                                                      

    $60.. yeech.. They don't give that stuff away, do they ??
    
    Last time I built a plastic (loong, long, log time ago), prices
    were aroung $5.
    
    md

    re: .37/38  It's made by Hasegawa/MiniCraft. REAL superdetailed
    stuff, not one of those Monogram jobs where the pieces don't fit,
    and the decal patterns are molded in the body, etc....
    
    DT

    	The $60 one is a 262 B. I also saw today a $25 version by the
    same company (hasegawa) of the 262 A. It wasn't labeled super scale
    but I would assume its as good outside as the other but with less
    detail parts. I believe these were 1/48 scale. The Hobby Emporium
    in Nashua has both kits; low on the shelf in the back left corner
    of the store should you wish to find them 8^)

Isn't that a little expensive for 1/48 scale?

    a 1/6th scale flying version will set you back about $2000.00.
    
    It's a matter of perspective.
    
    md

    Judging from the photo in the new Hasegawa catalog the 
    $60 dollar job has hatches that open to reveal the
    cannons, jets, etc and it also has a highly detailed 
    cockpit. (They also describe the landing gear detail as 
    being razor sharp or some such thing, which is of little 
    interest to myself as I haven't shaved for 2� years. :^)

    DT

    ..and I haven't had a razor to mine for over 15.
    
    I guess I'll have to look the plane up once I get the stuff on the
    bench out of the way.
    
    md

    Ok, we have two more sources for models:
    
    Tony Brown send me a extract from RC Scale Aircraft (Autumn 86)
    that describes a prop driven (single engine in the nose) model.
    
    Engine size is .40. wing span is 1.3 m. Scale is ok. Fixed gear
    or none (ie hand launch).
    
    (Tony: I tried to send you mail to tell you everything came through
    but NMAIL gave up after 3 days with node unreachable msg)
    
    
    The other is a german kit. To quote Bob Day:
    
     	    "There was a feature (bob: In RCM/E ?)
            on the Nuremburg show this month... There it was, another
            me262a. This time they said it was produced by Bauer Modelle,
            and was 1/6 or 1/8 scale, I can't remember which, but it
            was 2085mm span.... Designed for 2 x .60 fans...... "
    

    I hope to get more details shortly.
    
    md

    Marc
    
    Glad to see that you received the plan OK.  Can't understand why
    you had electronic mail problems, but I'm a little busy to investigate
    at the moment.
    
    Did you see the review in RCM earlier this year on the engine
    synchronizer? Sounds like an essential item.
    
    Good luck
    Tony
    P.S. To all you graphics fiends, I've just had a chance to catch
    up after a few hectic months and I feel a little left out without
    a logo. Is this mandatory for one's self esteem? Perhaps mine should
    be:
    
          +
    ------|------
    
    Tony
    

    Marc,
    
    Look inthe latest (June) issue of either M.A.N. or M.A. in the coverage
    of a foreign (German?) tradeshow and you'll see a nice pic of a
    framed-up ME-262.  The manufacturers name (which I forget) is given
    but no other details appeared.  Still, maybe it's another _lead_
    for you.   

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Marc,
    
    Re: .-1, the article I referred to appears in the June issue of
    Model Airplane News.  The article by Chris Chianelli, titled "Nurnberg
    Mission," covers the Nuremberg Tradeshow in West Germany.  The author
    states that all the merchandise pictured _would_ become available
    in the U.S. which would lead ont to believe that the ME-262 will
    be available here someday.
    
    As I said, details are sketchy at best but, from the picture of
    the unfinished airframe, the model appears to have a gel-coated
    glass fuse and straight glass nacelles with, most likely, balsa
    sheeted, foam-core flying surfaces.  No dimensional information
    is provided but the kit comes from Bauer and is intended for twin
    Bauer fan units.  If you have any idea what size a Bauer fan is,
    you could guesstimate the size from there.  

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    ok, that's that same kit the Bob Day refered too. Now, I guess it's
    a simple matter of finding out who imports Bauer models into this
    country !!.
    
    anyone care to try to find out or has any pointers ?
    
    md

    
    A long time ago since the last reply !
    
    What is the status of a dual Ducted Fan ME262 kit ? (I have some interest
    in building one). 
    
    Gilbert

The last two years have not been the best for me, personally. This has caused 
havoc with my plans. 

On this front, I have focused on getting background info on the Me-262 and 
keeping an eye out for models, since I plan to build an FAI quality version,
probably 1/6th or 1/5th scale.

I've also moved to Europe. I can now access documentation from local sources.
And can track the development for the new JPX mini-turbines.

On the more practical side, I focusing on getting "my wings back" and re-tooling 
my workshop. I don't expect to get a model going for at least 18 months.

md