Conference vmszoo::rc

    Okay, I'll take a whack at answering your question. First
    I would not recommend trying to learn a large number of
    manuvers all at once. Pick one such as an axial roll and practice
    it until you are real comfortable with it then move on to the next.
    Your plane may not be able to do a real good axial roll, but
    it should be able to a decent job. To learn to do a roll I'd
    start heading into the wind, when ready to roll bump in a little
    up elevator to raise the nose a few degrees, then release the elevator
    and hit the ailerons. When you are inverted blip in down elevator
    to raise the nose again. I would not bother with the rudder.
    You will have to experiment with your plane to get a feel as to
    how much elevator you need and when to apply it. When done
    correctly your rolls rotate smoothly, and hold a constant heading.
    As for knife edge flight, it is mainly a matter of rolling the plane
    into the verticle position and applying top rudder to hold the nose
    up, you'll also need to play with the ailerons and elevator to keep
    it flying in a straight line and from rolling out into level flight
    again. Knife edge is not easy, and your plane is probably not up
    to the task. At first stick with simple manuvers like loops and
    rolls till you have then down perfect, that should keep you busy
    for a while. Good luck
    Wayne

    You scared me off when you said "expert pattern fliers", I don't
    even have a true pattern ship yet.  I was hoping this note would fill
    up with advice from experts, but here comes my $.02...
    
    Inside loop : fly straight, pull back on the elevator and pray.
    	Just kidding!  Actually a good inside loop should be as round
    	as possible.  Don't overdo it with up elevator, especially at
    	the top of the loop.  Keep the wings as level as possible
    	throughout the loop using aileron (or rudder if that's all you
    	have).  Oh yeah, start it into the wind.
    
    Straight-ahead stall : straight and level into wind, back off on
    	throttle and pull nose slightly up until the plane stalls and
    	pitches forward.  If one wing drops first level it with rudder
    	while nose is down, then pull up to straight and level flight
    	(feed in throttle).  You should end the manuever in the same
    	direction as it was entered.
    	
    Barrel roll : from straight and level flight, give a little up
    	elevator to get the nose up a bit then neutral elevator.  Now
    	give full left or right aileron (no rudder).  When inverted,
    	feed in a bit of down elevator momentarily (push forward on the
	stick) to keep the nose slightly up and then go neutral on elevator
    	again (keep full aileron).  When back to upright and level go neutral.
    	If done properly the plane will not gain or lose altitude and
    	will stay on the same path.  Don't overshoot the roll.
    
    Snap roll : start with some up elevator to get the nose up, then
    	full left or right rudder and full elevator (no aileron).
    	If the plane isn't too nose heavy and you have enough throw
	on the rudder and elevator it should snap rapidly with a nose
    	high attitude.  When it gets to upright again, go neutral. 
    	Once again the plane should not gain or lose altitude.
    
    Spin : get good altitude, back off on throttle and keep nose high
    	until plane stalls.  Give full up elevator and full rudder
    	(sometimes full aileron helps too) and spin straight down.
    	To end spin point nose downward, use aileron to straighten to
    	original heading and pull up to level flight.
    
    Inverted flight : half-roll to inverted, feed in enough down elevator
    	to keep the plane level.  Aileron still works the same, elevator
    	is reversed.
  
    Outside loop : same as inside loop except start and end from inverted
    	flight.

    That's all I'm willing to do tonight, time to watch the fourth quarter
    of the Celtics game.  Let's get some real experts involved in this,
    even one maneuver per response would be fine.
    							Bill

If all else fails; read the instructions.

That is the instructions in the Rule book. The AMA rule book has two sets of 
maneuver descriptions, one in the AMA Pattern Judges Guide (page 44); and 
second in the F3A FAI rules section (Page 102); well that is according to my 
1984/85 copy. The Pattern Judges Guide is very good and gives a lot of good 
hints.

John

    Try looking at the latest issue of RCM (JULY 1987), under the section
    entitled "HotDogging".  The respective stick positions are displayed
    in the article too...
    

    A few years back when I started flying, I purchased 2 books from
    RCM ( Flight Training VOL I AND II).  The first vol deals with all
    phases of building, covering, trimming, radio installation, first
    flight and basic maneuvers.  Vol II describes all maneuvers and
    more trimming hints.  Checkout a copy of RCM for current prices.

	

		To start off I think a philosophy statement might be in
order.  Define to yourself if you want to know what the maneuvers are 
and do them or know the maneuvers are and do them well. Anyone can do an
aerobatic maneuver, but few can do them well.  I shall assume that you 
can handle a low winged ship with moderate proficiency and want to do
the maneuvers well.


		We shall start with the basics, and I mean BASICS.

1, Coordinated turn.   Using aileron, elevator and rudder (YES rudder)
  do turns both to the left and the right. 

   Continue these reducing speed until your comfortable with this turn
even at slow speeds. You will find that the application of rudder 
smoothes out the turn and if done correctly make the turn flatter.


2, The second step is actually three maneuvers combined into one.

   It consists of a "Straight flight in", "Procedure turn" and "Straight
flight out". Sounds simple but in reality it is one of if not the 
hardest maneuvers to do.

   To start you set a heading parallel to the landing strip, flying into
the windward direction (the same direction as take off).  You should fly
straight and level not loosing or gaining altitude, or changing your
heading for 3-5 seconds. At this point in time you should be just to the
side of center (center is directly in front of you). Bank the wings and
do a 90 degree turn away from yourself. When the plane is flying directly 
away for yourself bank the wings opposite of the first turn. 

	ie, If the first turn was initiated by a right bank, then the
second turn is initiated by a left bank.

Proceed in doing a 270 degree turn. This turn should put you at center
directly in front of yourself. Now fly straight out along the same flight
past that was flown on the way in. 

   Through out the maneuver there should be no loss in altitude. Once 
you bank the plane to turn there should be no perceived deviations from 
this bank angle. BE SMOOTH. SMOOTHNESS COUNTS.


		Next time we will cover a short note on trimming and 
then the stall turn.

						Tom

		Well where did we leave off?? Oh yes, it was the
procedure turn.  You may think that the last enter was rather basic
but it was meant to be. To often I see fliers that forget how to
use a rudder or never learned to use it in the first place. When
you get into flying the maneuvers you will see how important the
rudder really is. The "Procedure Turn" teaches many things. One of
the major one is "Patience".  It's this patience and smooth flying
that will be a benefit throughout all the other maneuvers you will be
doing. I said I would cover a little trimming so lets get started.


	Trimming 102

		Trimming of a progressive process. What I mean by that
is if done correctly you continue from one step to the next until some
trimming of  the ship is required. When this adjusting happens you go
back to zero and start over again. So on and so forth until the plane
is flying like you want it. 

	To start trimming begins on the building board and in fact never
end when you decide to retire the ship. Build straight.


	To begin take the plane off and trim the elevator and ailerons
for level flight( at the normal flight speed).  Now land and set up the
surfaces so that you can return the trims to the neutral point. Again
take off and retrim for level flight. Now fly the plane past yourself
and as it passes pitch the plane up into a 45 degree climb and note
if the fuse is pointing to one side or the other. If it points straight
up your in luck. If the fuse is pointing to the right add left rudder.
If it points to the left add right rudder. Now go back and verify
level flight. Adjust if required and the go to the 45 degree pitch
step. continue this until the plane will fly level and the fuse points
straight. The 45 degree pitch should be done into the wind. Land and
adjust the surfaces and the takeoff and verify your adjustments.
	Next comes the aileron setting for adverse yaw during a roll.
Begin by flying level and roll the plane up side down. Add elevator to
fly level but don't add rudder or ailerons. Note if the fuse is pointing
to the right or left. If it points straight forward no differential
aileron throw is required. If you roll to the right and then the fuse
points to the right adjust the ailerons so that the deflect more up
than down. If when you roll to the right the fuse points to the left
you adjust the aileron deflection so that the aileron moves more down 
than up. This adjustment is done on the ground.  After the adjustment 
go back to the start and verify all the process steps. Adjust where
needed and continue until you get back to verifying the aileron
differential and the plane is solid. It's a lengthy process but one
that is most rewarding. The last step I'll cover on trimming this
time is knife edge flight. Roll the plane so that the right side is
on the top and see if the plane pulls towards the canopy or the landing
gear. If it pulls towards the canopy the reduce incidence in the wing.
If it pulls towards the landing gear the add incidence. If you have
an adjustable stab then all the better. For pulling to the canopy 
add incidence to the stab. For pulling to the landing gear reduce stab
incidence.


						Tom

    
    	No one has talked about maneuvers for a while so I guess I'll
    keep this note going. If there isn't any interest let me know and
    I'll stop.
    
    	The next maneuver is the "Stall Turn". The maneuver is done
    into the wind or when there is a crosswind done in the same
    direction as the takeoff. 
    
    	One point I want to make at this time is the pilots position
    during all maneuvers. One should be standing facing parallel to
    the takeoff/landing strip. Plant your feet apart from one another.
    To close a stance will cause you to waiver back and forth. Also
    you don't want to turn your body from side to side, rather turn
    your head. Keeping your chest parallel to the flight line will help
    you fly straight parallel passes adjacent to the takeoff/landing
    strip.
    
    	The stall turn is just that, a pivot of the plane via rudder
    input at the point of stalling the plane in a vertical climb.
    You fly straight and level and pitch the plane up into 90 degrees
    of a loop. The start of the 90 degree loop is directly in front
    of you. This means that the vertical climb,stall turn and vertical
    decent will be to the side on "center". You want the plane to climb
    vertical for a good period of time to establish a true vertical
    flight path. On days where there is a tail or nose wind you will
    have to add or subtract elevator input to keep the vertical line.
    On days when there is a crosswind you will have to add rudder input
    to keep the vertical line. Once you have established the vertical
    line begin to reduce speed until the plane almost stops. At this
    moment add rudder. Once the plane has rotated 90 degree to one side
    reduce the rudder input. You should turn the plane within one wing
    span of the plane. Travel down the vertical line and begin the pull
    out at the same place that you entered the vertical climb. You should
    strive to make the verticals up and down abd the two quarter loops
    identical.
    
    						Tom

    I'm still having trouble doing a barrell roll!  Let me tell you
    how I do it;
    
    I put the plane in level flight, nose up a hair, and then apply
    full right rudder and right aileron......
    
    Results: a very wide roll with loss of altitude!
    
    What am I doing wrong?
    
    I'd really like to get it where I can roll the plane right on its
    axis two or three times without loss of altitude.

    If your trying to do an AXIAL roll, DO NOT use rudder!  To string
    2, 3, or more AXIAL rolls, pull the nose up slightly, apply right
    or left aileron (I prefer to roll to the right) and hold it.  As
    the bird approaches the inverted, apply enough DOWN elevator to
    hold the nose up then release as it rolls past the inverted and
    apply UP as it approaches level flight again...repeat procedure
    for subsequent roll(s).  During a string of AXIAL rolls, you will
    be holding a fixed amount of aileron while "pumping" the elevator
    DOWN-UP-DOWN-UP-DOWN-UP, timing the elevator the the inverted and
    upright attitudes of the airplane.  NO RUDDER IS REQUIRED NOR SHOULD
    BE USED FOR "AXIAL" ROLLS!
    
    A BARREL-ROLL is a completely different animal requiring a totally
    different technique as the plane will actually divert from its heading
    a full 90 degrees and return in the course of a correctly executed
    maneuver.  The maneuver is more difficult and (my opinion) is not
    nearly as pretty as properly performed AXIAL rolls.
                          
    Hope this helps...adios,	Al

    Do the ailerons have to have a good amount of throw in order to 
    rotate quick enough so as not to "bank" away from the axis?   I
    seem to remember trying it the way you explained it, but the plane
    started banking before it went inverted, then banked back before
    it became upright!  My plane is a Eaglet 53 w/.025 in it, and my
    brother has a Cardinal II w/.35 in it.  What could I be doing wrong?
    Thanks for the help.....
    
    Ken
    

    
    OPEN "SOAPBOX"                                                            
    
    What airframe are you flying?  Are you interested in doing "Hot
    Doging" or "Pattern", there is a difference. Hot Doging is like
    going out to a bar dancing for the night. Pattern is like studying
    the ballet.  What's your bag? I guess what I'm trying to say is that
    hot doging is unchanneled energy that soon becomes boring. If your
    asking how to improve the manuavers then I would hope that you
    would channel your energy towards pattern. I'm not saying that you
    go to contests, contests aren't for everyone but I am saying to
    become a proficient flyer.
    
    CLOSE "SOAPBOX"
    
    Al gave a good description of what to do. Realize that CG is one
    governing factor in how hard you have to work at axial rolls. A
    CG set at it's optimum produces a ship that rolls with little
    elevator inputs however this plane will be difficult to stall
    turn.
    
    						Tom   

    Your asking to much of the airframe your flying. The engine thrust
    line, wing and stab relationships are to far apart to produce good
    axial manuavers. Also your flying a trainer, not an aerobatic ship.
    What planes do you have on the board? How often do you fly? Is there
    someone at your field that fly's low wingers?
    
    To improve your axials for now, the deviations from heading are
    produced by elevator inputs. Just like when you carve a turn.
    Your problem is that your inputing elevator at the wrong times.Wait
    until the plane is almost upside down until you add down elevator.
    How is the hinge gap on the plane? If there is ANY seal the control
    surface from the bottom using clear packing tape.
    
    					Tom

If its any consolation, my instructor does pretty sloppy rolls
with my Eaglet, so you're probably getting as good a roll with it
as is possible.  Tom's right, you need a ship designed for such
maneuvers.  In fact, the Eaglet is designed to *prevent* such
things!

P.S. He does a pretty bad Immelman with it too.  Though it does
seem to loop nice.

    Ken,
    
    It definitely makes a difference what kind of airplane yer' flyin'.
    Trainer types with flat-bottom airfoils, lotsa' dihedral and "slow"
    ailerons can be infinitely more difficult to perform aerobatics with,
    and rightfully so.  The FIRST priority of their design criteria is
    to be as inherently STABLE as the laws of aerodynamics allow and,
    for an aircraft to be REALLY aerobatic, it actually HAS to be UN-
    stable...that's why aerobatic ships are so "slippery" in the hands
    of the novice and PRECISELY why they're NOT recommended as trainers.
    
    The problem you've encountered is EXACTLY why, when asked, I always
    recommend ALL the airplane I think the student may be able to handle
    (within reason) right from the beginning...something like an Ugly-Stik
    for examle.  This kinda' ship can be set up gentle enough to get
    the new student through the initial throes of learning, then can
    be "tightened-up" (increase control-surface throws) when the fledgling
    aviator wants, indeed NEEDS, to try his hand at aerobatics.  There
    is no better teacher than aerobatics when it comes to KNOWING what
    to do in unusual attitudes and emergencies...it's the difference
    between being a mediocre model airplane driver and a PILOT!
    
    As regards your particular difficulty, an Eaglet CAN be rolled but
    you'll NEVER get a nice clean string of axial rolls like you'd like
    to...only a higher perfomance model will buy that for you.  I had
    a student last year flying an Eaglet (personal opinion: I'd never
    recommend this or a similar performing aircraft as a trainer) on
    rudder and elevator only.  I COULD roll this bird, with great dif-
    ficulty, but had to reverse rudder after the plane was inverted.
    Think about it...the rudder is backward when the plane is inverted.
    All I can recommend to you (after a new airplane) is to increase
    the throw on your ailerons a little at a time and keep trying. You
    'MAY?" finally achieve an acceptable roll but remember, you're trying
    to FORCE the bird into an attitude it was SPECIFICALLY designed
    to resist so you're gonna' have to FORCE the roll. 
    
    What I said earlier about NO RUDDER in an axial roll still goes...
    The syndrome you're witnessing where the plane rolls over and dives
    toward the ground is being CAUSED by the rudder being deflected
    full-right when the bird is on its right side.  Again, picture it
    in your mind...in this attitude, the rudder is now controlling the
    pitch axis (normally the function of the elevator) and you are ef-
    fectively applying FULL-DOWN ELEVATOR.  However, if you find that
    you can't get enough aileron throw to do the job, you may have to
    "help" start the roll with the simultaneous application of aileron
    AND rudder...*BUT* get off the rudder as soon as the roll develops
    or you'll dump the nose!!!  If none of this works for you, I'm afraid
    your doomed and it's time to graduate to a Stik or similar plane...one
    which has higher performance but is still relatively friendly.
    
    As a parting shot, lemme' defend my remark about not recommending
    the Eaglet or similar birds as trainers by saying that ALL the Stik
    moved right on from primary instruction into aerobatics, their learn-
    ing curves near vertical, and became competent pilots in relatively
    short order.  My Eaglet student is STILL trying to learn to fly
    an Eaglet!!  What more can I say?  Graduate to a better airplane
    and REALLY learn to fly.
    
    Hope I've been of some help,	Al

    Thanks for the info.  I understand your reasoning for not wanting
    a trainer that is only limited to training, but it IS a good bird
    to learn on.  As you said, it is a very stable flyer.
    
    But I guess it's time to move up to a better, more agile plane.
    
    Thanks for the info!
    
    Ken

    
    Al, what control movements do you use to perform a Lomcevak?
    I always thought you needed a snappy little biplane like Charlie
    Nelson's OMH scratchbuilt to do those things, now I'm starting
    to wonder.  Anyhow, it would be nice to add that maneuver to this
    topic (unless it's too difficult to describe).  Thanks in advance-
    
    Bill
    
    P.S. you have until next spring as far as I'm concerned.

    Bill,
    
    Actually, any airplane that is capable of a snap roll _may_ be capable
    of a Lomcevak.  I say "may" 'cause some other little understood [by
    me] factors may prevent the maneuver from being sucessfully performed.
    
    There are two major methods of entry to the maneuver, from upright
    or from inverted.  Since I'm familiar only with the former, I'll
    describe the upright-entry method.
    
    The object is to get the aircraft into a near vertical snap, then
    cause it to tuck the nose under and carry right on through into
    a nose-over-tail tumble, almost as though the ship were suspended
    by the wing tips and rotated nose-first through 360-degrees.  Try
    to visualize this as I describe the inputs.
    
    From level flight, begin an approximate 40-45 degree climb, holding
    the right wing slightly low.  Now, leading slightly with the rudder,
    apply full left rudder and aileron with simultaneous full up elevator
    which will produce an inside snap-roll to the left.  As the nose
    becomes nearly vertical (in 3/4 of one rotation or so), hold every-
    thing you have but go from full up to full DOWN elevator.  If
    everything's right, the rotation should stop and the nose tuck under
    into a tumble; holding everything may produce more than one tumble
    depending upon the airplane.  To recover, simply let everything
    return to neutral, pulling the throttle if necessary, allow the
    plane to pick up a little airspeed, then pull the nose up and resume
    level flight.
    
    Climb angle, airspeed, timing and direction of snap may need to
    be be varied to finally achieve the tumble and some aircraft just
    flat refuse to do it at all....the only way to know for sure is
    to try it.  My MiG goes through the motions beautifully to the point
    of tucking its nose under but there the rotation just stops and
    I'm left just hanging in space inverted with the controls all crossed
    up; for some reason I can't get it to follow through back to the
    upright.  I believe it's because I'm too heavily power-loaded and
    simply lack the beans to forcibly pull the airplane through from
    the inverted as my grossly overweight Yeller' Peril behaves almost
    identically.  Bob's overpowered, lightweight P-47, however, does
    it almost automatically (though Bob missed it three times consecutively
    last Saturday).
    
    Hope that helps explain it for you.  It's definitely an attention-
    getting maneuver once you find a plane that'll do it and work out
    the mechanics.

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    
    Al,
    	Thanks for the clear and thorough answer, I can envision the
    control movements as you described them.  Is it possible that you
    don't have enough _down_elevator_ throw to get the Mig all the
    way through the maneuver?  Maybe if you could kick it a little harder
    to start the forward tumble it would continue through???  It seems
    that the initial kick would be critical, since the elevator probably
    doesn't do much once it's tumbling.  Only thing that surprises me
    is that you say to hold full left rudder and aileron during the
    forward tumble - I would have thought these should go to neutral.
    Maybe it doesn't matter because those surfaces aren't flying at that
    point???

    I can't wait to give it a try. Maybe I'll get the Super Sportster out
    of mothballs this sunday.
    
    Bill

    Bill,
    
    All yer' suppositions are correct in theory.  Yes, a bit more down
    elevator or a more aft CG might help.  I tried it again this weekend
    with lower fuel level and it was better but still no ceegar.  I
    can't explain further than what you've already surmised but, yes,
    tou hold all inputs (except for reversing the elevator) throughout
    the maneuver, then let go of everything to recover.
    
    If all else fails, try entering from inverted, starting with an
    outside-snap....all other rules remain the same.  I've seen full-scale
    pilots enter from both attitudes.

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    I still don't seem to be able to pull off a nice roll!  It seems
    as soon as I hit "right aileron" to do a roll to the right, the
    plane starts to turn right.  End result is a wide roll.  
    
    How do you keep the plane on a level axis?  Maybe its just timing
    and coordination.  Can this maneuver be done at a slower speed?
    Guess I'm just nervous when I put the plane in anything other than
    a normal flight pattern.  My plane is a high 6"wing, no dihedral
    pulled by a OS.90FS.
    
    Ken

    I most cases you won't get an axil roll out of a high winged
    aircraft. Matter of fact most ships period don't roll around
    the spinner. Rather they roll around the wing. Viewing a roll
    this way is really nerve racking. You'd have to see a pattern
    bird to understand. To get something of an axial roll you'll have
    to really work the controls. You may have to have a slight up nose
    attitude just prior to the roll with heavy application of
    down elevator while inverted.
    
    Tom

    Ken,
    
    It'd be dangerous/hazardous to the plane's health to attempt beginning
    rolls (and/or most other awerobatics) at slow speeds.  BY ALL MEANS
    keep the speed up!  Fact is, the faster the airspeed, the nicer,
    AND EASIER, the roll.
    
    I suspect yer' unconciously applying and holding some up elevator
    when you crank in the aileron; otherwise, aonly a bank, NOT a turn
    would develop...which is what you want.
    
    Try this:  From straight and level flight at a safe altitude, raise
    the nose visibly then apply full right (or left) aileron while simul-
    taneously releasing all back-pressure (up-elevator) on the stick.
    Hold the stick full over as the ship rolls and apply enough down-
    elevator to keep the nose from dropping while inverted.  As the
    roll continues past the inverted, release the down elevator.  When 
    the wings are level again, release the aileron and apply some up-
    elevator to resume level flight.  
    
    The roll described will describe a gentle arc from beginning to
    end which is as most full-scale aircraft (except for the sophisticated
    world-class aerobatic ships) perform rolls.  The pattern guys want
    the roll right down a wire with no gain or loss of altitude but
    the roll I described is plenty acceptable for starters.
    
    Yer' observation is correct that timing and coordination are key
    to a well flown roll but the only way to acquire these ingredients
    is to practice, practice, practice, practice..................

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Thanks Al, but what about 4 point rolls?  Do you let off the aileron
    when the wing is perpendicular to the ground and add in a touch
    of down elevator to keep it from banking around? (on a right roll)
    And maybe even add a little left rudder to keep the nose up....and
    just hold it there until you are ready to go to the invert?
    
    Ken

    Ken,
    	To do point rolls, you need to use top rudder to keep the nose
    from dropping too fast at the 90 and 270 degree points.  When I
    started doing these, I left out the rudder and started nose high
    and did them sort of fast.  Feed in some down elevator at the 180
    degree point and you get an acceptable beginning 4 point roll. 
    After you master actually stopping the roll at the proper points
    (actually this is the hard part for me) you can work on keeping
    more on track during the roll.  If you are doing it to the right,
    you need left rudder at the 90 degree to hold the nose up, down
    at the 180 degree point to hold level, and right rudder at the 270
    degree point to hold the nose up and back to neutral at the finish.
    You should not have any elevator at the 90 and 270 degree points.
    
    
    Charlie
    

    Ken,
    
    	The best thing I have found with a new manuaver or new ship
    is to break down the manuaver into smaller parts. by this I mean
    Take the four point roll. start by only trying to fly the ship on
    a knife edge. Roll the ship onto it's right side(left wing pointing
    up) and add left rudder. Do this at a rather high altitude. What
    your after now is to see what the ship does when you roll it onto
    it's side. When the wings are verticle obviously you bring the ailerons
    to neutral. The ship may dive,roll right,roll left, turn towards
    the canopy (pull towards the caonpy) or turn towards the wing
    (pull towards the wing). What your after is to see what happens,
    recover and then while you just flying around think about what 
    you will have to do with the other controls to keep it on it's side.
    You repeat this process for both sides and inverted. I have seen
    sport ship that required rudder,elevator and aileron inputs all
    at the same time just to keep the ship flying on it's side.
    
    EX.  While on it's right side left rudder was used to keep the
    ship up and flying. Right aileron was needed to eliminate the
    roll problem caused by the deflected rudder (left rudder tried to
    make the ship roll left). Down elevator was needed to keep the
    ship traveling in a straight line.
    
    Granted this wouldn't be a ship that someone would like to take
    to a pattern contest but it is possible with some sport designs.
    
    Once you know what the ship is going to do while it's on it's right
    side your ready to progress to flying a right side knife edge and
    then from this add right aileron and reduce left rudder until your
    into inverted flying. From here you again see what is needed in
    inverted flight. ? down elevator,left rudder? whatever is needed
    you learn and as you learn the manuaver looks better.  Before you
    know it the manuaver looks OK and your on your way. There are ways
    to trim out problems but that's another topic.....
    
    
    Tom 

    
    
    Kay,
    
      I will try to explain the "falling leaf". It is somthing like
    a descending "dutch roll". A roll is started in one direction, then
    stopped and started in the opposite direction while descending in
    a 45 degree? angle.
      I don't see any reason that a model aircraft could not perform
    the maneuver.
      I have a video with the 1983 hilton masters competition on it,
    and Gene Soucy performs one. If you would like to borrow the video,
    send me mail. I will be on vacation until next Monday, but let me
    know.
    
                                     Dan Weier
    

    Since my questions involve a scale model, and I couldn't find a note on
    aviation terminology, I'll ask them here.
    
    In correspondance with a friend who's just completed and flown a 
    1/5 scale Fokker DVIII, he mentioned that it has a severe case of 
    "Dutch Roll" that disappears completely when he cuts power.   
    
    My questions are: what is Dutch Roll, and what are the typical causes 
    and cures?  Less importantly, does anyone know how the term came to be?

    Bob,
    
    Technically (and correctly), "Dutch Roll" refers to a maneuver used to
    develop aileron and elevator coordination.  Viewed from ahead or from
    behind, it looks like a series of alternating left and right ~30-degree
    banks almost like the pilot starts a horizontal roll, gets about an
    eighth of the way into it then changes his mind and changes to a roll
    in the opposite direction but, nope, changes his mind about an eighth
    into it and changes directions again, etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum.
    Sounds easy but I can speak from experience and tell you that if you
    don't have the rudder and ailerons perfectly coordinated, the maneuver
    goes to Hell in a hand basket in one helluva hurry.
    
    More frequently (and less correctly), Dutch Roll is used to describe a
    full scale aircraft's tendency to "hunt" (or fishtail) in the yaw axis.
    The Beech Bonanza is notorious for this as I can attest having flown
    one to the Reno air races in September 1975.  
    
    Most often, the cause (as in the case of the Bonanza) is insufficient
    vertical/side area and the cure is to increase side area or vertical
    stabilizer/rudder area.  Frequently, a ventral fin is added to the
    bottom-rear of the fuse to help this condition.  
    
    If yer' friend is truly experiencing Dutch Roll and not some other
    condition being called by the wrong name, I suspect the reason, again,
    is marginal side area as the Fokker D-VIII has a very slender fuse and
    small vertical stabilizer.  However, I've seen numerous D-VIII's fly
    and can't say that any of them displayed any such characteristic so I'm
    not quite sure what the real trouble could be.  It could certainly be a
    case of one problem compounding another, i.e. wing has a twist so we
    crank in some aileron trim..., but this causes the airplane to skid due
    to the assymetrical drag so we crank in some rudder trim to correct. 
    Now we have forces fighting each other and things like Dutch Roll or
    large trim changes at varying throttle settings.  If everything is
    arrow-straight, sometimes Dutch Roll can indicate tail-heaviness (very
    common with short-nosed WW-I aircraft) and moving the CG forward can
    have a positive effect.  Bottom line is that this condition can be
    _very_ difficult to pin down and, if it results from misaligned or
    warped structure, it may be impossible to correct without major
    surgery.
    
    BTW, I have _NO_ idea where the name "Dutch Roll" came from but would
    be interested in knowing if one of our noters can supply the answer.
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    I heard that the Super Chipmunks can do just about any trick in the
    book.  Has anyone seen a MUNK do a Lomcevak?
    
    I was talking with the owner of Peanuts Hobby shop last weekend and 
    he says the MONK does a great Lomcevak.  Here is how he described it
    to me;
    		Put the plane into an inside loop and when the nose is at 
    about 2 o'clock cut the engine, full up elevator and watch it fall all
    over itself.  
    
    Too me something is missing here!  Maybe he was just giving me the 
    condensed version of it.  I'm trying to imagine the plane going head
    over rudder, but what would stop the plane from going into a dive once
    the nose is down?  In other words, what makes the tail come over the 
    top?  He said it will continue rolling all over itself.  Sounds neat
    and I'm going to give it a try once the winds get under hurricane force
    up here in the Nor'east.
    
    But Al has mentioned earlier using full rudder and aileron....what is
    the purpose of this?
    
    Ken

    Ken,
    
    I've gotten my Munk to do just about everything.  The only exception
    being a knife-edge loop.  Not balanced well enough to accomplish.  My
    understanding of how (and this is the way I do it) to do the lomcevak
    is to, pull full up with full aileron and rudder...at 1-2 o'clock,
    switch to full down elevator...keeping full rudder and aileron.  I've
    done several and timing is critical for looks.  The plane does appear
    to be "falling" all over itself.  It's even more difficult to do it
    inverted.
    
    Hope this helps ya,
    
    John...the Colorado Springs Munker

    I also did a little expirementing with my flaps on the MUNK.
    
    Since I don't have flap/elevator mixing, I tend to have a problem when
    I make my landing approach.  If I crank in too much flap, the plane 
    balloons upward.  So I tried holding the nose up close to stall point
    and then cranked in flaps.  The plane seemed at that point to just
    float and came down at a very steep angle.  It was kind of neat.
    
    The one thing I noticed is that it gets very unstable at such a slow
    speed.  I got it on the ground and got it to lift off again without
    adding any power.  Flaps are neat.
    
    Ken

    Ken,
    
    One thing that I find that helps any maneuver I try, is to visualize
    the control commands while at home sitting on the couch.  Just do the
    maneuver in your mind first.  You'll be less nervous when you finally
    attempt the maneuver.
    
    I let ya know what I've been up to in the Munk file.
    
    Laters
    
    John
    

When I want to learn a maneuver (such as level flight) I can go one better than
visualization. I have an RC flight simulation program that runs on my Atari ST.

Although it cannot reproduce the feel of real flying, it is excellent in showing
how your typical (and not so typical as all parameters are adjustable) model 
plane will react to various inputs. The control is actually a gutted radio, with
both sticks intact. I believe that practicing using this program let me solo
many hours sooner than I would have ordinarily, and I have successfully mastered
several manuevers on (almost) the first try by practising on the computer first.

Steve

    
    Deep breath. Do I want to do this to myself?
    
    I've just acquired a new kit, designed by my club chairman. It's a high
    wing aerobatic job, with a (just) semi-symmetrical section. I'm going
    to use it to brush up my aerobatics. And this brings me to my question.
    
    How do I do an (intentional!) inverted spin. And how do I *stop* it?
    8^)
    
    Guess 1 would be:
    
    Roll to inverted, bring the nose up, reduce power, and then chuck in a
    handful of rudder/aileron, pause, go pick up the pieces?
    
    I'm just idly curious, is inverted spinning particularly dangerous? I
    know the full-size guys are wary of it, but is this because of the
    danger of disorientation?
    
    Cheers
    
    Nigel
    

    It is not dangerous. It is just that a lot of us pull up to get out of
    things. When you come out of an inverted spin, usually by just letting
    go of the controls, you need to decide what to pull. 
    
    Up elev. is usually the long way round. That is when most folks get
    into trouble.
    
    EVL-1 

  Gee...I figured Erics first suggestion would be to get a Kadet Senior!  :^)

    With an asymetrical wing set up - or not enough rubber holding it on.
    
    E.

    
    Thanks Eric,
    
    Keep an eye on the "Crashes" note for updates as they happen! 8^)
    
    BTW did you get anywhere with a date for the ToC? (nag nag nag....) 8^)
    
    Cheers
    
    Nigel