Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    The Jaguar XJR-14 has been unveiled and very different it is too!
    
    The car is ALL purple (yeuk!) and inside has a left hand (ie central)
    gearchange (just like a REAL car!). The engine is a version of the
    Ford HB used by Benneton and Jordan in F1. The rear end has a very
    large wing set low and a windscreen/door glass area like the Peugeot 905.
    It looks more like an enclosed F1 car and apparently has set times at
    Silverstone only .5 second off the Jordan's F1 times.
    
    Jaguar have also announced that they will be racing V12's at Le Mans,
    so the howl will be heard again and of course Mazda will be racing 
    their rotary howlers and Merc (probably) their rumbly V8 turbos. 
    Ah, happy days will be here again!
    
    Mark

    Thanks for the info Mark. So the list of entrants for this year's
    championship is complete : 2 Jags, 2 Mercs and 2 Pugs. :-)

    Ah don't forget the 1 ALD and 2 Cougars!
    
    Mark

    
    Some US company has taken over Spice Engineering and called it
    Spice Prototypes. Spice were heavily in debt. All Spice contracts
    for the coming season will be honoured, so I think that means that
    Obermaier will be racing two Lambo-Spices in all rounds.
    
    One of the German manufacturers, Kremer, is building roading going
    962s this year and they are apparently going to enter two at Le
    Mans, based on the road car.
    
    Toyota will contest the last two races of the season using the new
    Tony Southgate designed car. Jan Lammers and Andy Wallace will drive
    for Toyota. 
    
    Nissan also are testing a 3.5 engine in an Indy'! car.
    
    Jaguar will use only Derek Warick and Teo Fabi in all the 'sprint'
    races this year. 
    
    

    
    I thought the Lambo-Spice deal was dead and the Franz Konrad's and 
    Walter Wolf's team would have the Lamborghini engines in their new car.
    
    I think it is Schuppan who are building road going 962s and planning
    to enter them at Le Mans (or at least, they are too!).
    
    Mark

    I have also got confirmation that the Spice Lambo project was history.

    I seem to think I read that the Franz Conrad team had gone down the
    tubes, and It isn't entered on the official entry list. I don't recall
    any cars using the Lambo engine. 
    
    	As for the 962 on the road , it is schuppan and there was a write
    	up in autosport a couple of weeks ago with a picture on it in
    	a nornal filling station with a normal pump in the filler
    	cap just behind the drivers door, nobody with a vent bottle though.
    
    Garry 

    

    I thought the story with the Lambo engines went something like...
    
    "Spice wanted them for the works cars, negotiated and didn't get them.
    Obermaier negotiated and got the use of them but didn't have chassis.
    Obermaier tried to modify Porsche chassis which didn't work.
    Obermaier then bought two Spice 91s to fit them in."

    Whatever, there are only seventeen entrants :-( for this years WSC. 
    Only Jaguar and Peugeot will enter two car teams for all races.
    First race is Japan on April 14th.
    

    Whatever the story is I think your title to the last reply spells it out
    clear as a bell, 'Empty grids'. I think I will only be going to 1 round
    this year, and that is Le Mans. I think that is , or at least could be 
    a boring race.  A lot of people I know don't like sportscar because it
    is so long and drawn out, what will be the effect if the grids are
    small ??? I suspect this will be the begining of the end.  If people
    didn't turn up in hords before what makes FISA think that it will be 
    any different now.
    
    
    
    Garry
    

    
    If you were at Brands the last time they held a WSC race there you'd 
    remember that people DO turn up in hordes for sportscar races.
    
    
    
    The trouble is FISA then send the race to circuits which people don't
    want to go to! 
    
    What people want to see is entertaining racing. Not everyone gets
    excited about the technical aspects of cars and most can't relate a 
    Mercedes C11 to a 190E! If the racing is good (and people get to know
    about it) then people will go to watch, but FISA seem intent on killing
    sportscars (despite their protestations). I mean, what has the 3.5
    litre championship achieved? Nissan and Toyota out, most of the
    privateer teams out, 6 potentially race winning cars instead of a dozen!
    F1 cars with perspex lids!
    
    International motor racing is at an all time low at the moment and
    being controlled by money mad amateurs who haven't got a racing-fan bone
    in their body.
    
    Methinks MGB and Napoleon won't be happy until F1 is the only
    championship in the world and the races are held in walled enclosures
    with spectators paying �200 a piece to watch the races on TV!
    
    Mark

    Yup , I agree with that. I was at the last round held at Brands Hatch,
    but I seem to remember that the year previous that addendance was
    somewhat  less. But you are right about the circuits, look at rounds at
    Silverstone , I have never seen what can be classed as a big crowd
    there or for that matter at Donnington. I do think that the crowd at 
    Le Mans will be big whatever this year but next year will realy tell.
    
    
    If as you say money becomes the No 1 factor in motor sport and F1 is
    the only thing the FISA is intrested in , It would seem that the 
    time is right for WEC,WSPC,WSC call it what you will , to become a
    championship on its own away from FISA. The Surfers Paradise cart race
    went ahead with no real problems, not that I have seen published. 
    Although I can't say that I enjoy Cart or Nascar racing but they do
    seem to have it sorted and have very few real problems. From what I 
    can see racing comes first and albeit lots of money is involved it is
    not the most important thing. 
    
    I won't be going to Silverstone this year ( Racing an 24h enduro that
    weekend ) but I suspect that a lot of other people will not go . As
    there is not another round in the UK, it would seem that the intrest
    that will be shown fron the UK will be low. Apart from Le Mans I have 
    never been to another round outside of the UK , do other rounds have
    small attendances ???? Without Nissan and Toyota in the championship 
    will Japan have much intrest in the championship , We will soon know.
    
    
    
    
    Garry

    
    Garry,
    
    I've only been to Spa other than British rounds and Le Mans, and that
    had very small crowds the 3 years I attended, although I seem to
    remember them getting bigger each year. Of course FISA has dropped Spa
    too (much too interesting a circuit! :^().
    
    You are right about crowds at Donnington. Thruxton gets much bigger
    crowds for an F3 or BTCC meet than Donnington had for the WSPC race
    last season. One reason might well be the crud support for WSPC race,
    I doubt it was a coincidence that 'that' Brands WSPC race had a BTCC
    round as a support race.
    
    Mark

    I'd never thought about that. The boosted crowd at brands may have been
    the btcc support race but I suspect that it was the fact that the
    public awareness of wspc with the rise in intrest in Jaguar and the
    fact that Aston Martin had returned to sportscar racing was more likly
    the reason.  I rarely go for the support races so I never really think 
    about whats on with the main race. In the past it was so long that any
    support was really just a time filler. What I would hate to see is the 
    support for wsc or whatever dwindle to the level I saw at the last SAT1
    supercup meeting at silverstone. I was supprised at the weekend with
    the amount of support for the british thunder saloons at brands.
    
    
    Garry

    
    Re .13
    
    I bet a lot of people at Brands Hatch went to see the BTCC and
    thought that the WSPC was the support race! :^)
    
    What I was really getting at was that the WSPC races usually have a 
    very weak support line-up and it's difficult to encourage the general
    public to part with 20 quid a piece(!!!!) to go and see a race they've
    never seen the like of on TV and which has a load of 3rd rate support
    races. That race at Brands Hatch had about 4 support races including
    the Soper/Rouse battle in the BTCC race, all were fairly entertaining.
    I suspect a lot of people went home looking forward to visiting their
    next WSPC meeting at Brands only for FISA to shift it to Donnington and
    give us Mazda MX-5s and Formula Vauxhall Lotus (ok support for F3, but
    not for an international meeting) as a support! I like Donnington,
    but I'm not sure I'd bother going to watch another WSPC race there
    unless I felt I was going to get VFM out of the whole meeting.
    
    Maybe one reason Le Mans is so popular is that it only costs about the 
    same to get into as a 3.5 hour race does at other circuits!
    
    Mark

    
    
    JMB threatened that any teams/suppliers that contested The Surfers 
    Paradise race would be banned from F1. He looked pretty stupid when
    he found out that Goodyear were participating, Alfa Romeo (nee FIAT,
    nee Ferrari) were there and others of a lesser calibre. F1 without
    Goodyear would be pretty stupid.
    
    Having seen a good number of WSC races at various European and other
    circuits, it certainly seems that WSC is not as popular (Le Mans
    and Suzuka excepted) as some other forms of racing. It certainly
    went through a very bad time in the late 70s and early 80s and
    even now could not be regarded as thriving. However, both Japan
    and Germany run better supported sports-prototype series than
    the International version.

    But is this suprising? Publicity for any race is miniscule, even in
    the country where the race is happening. Considering FISA charge
    some �600k to host a round it strikes me they do bugger all to
    publicise the events.  Compare this with F1, where stories hit
    newspapers daily and the build up to each race runs for several
    days.

    Of the seventeen race entrants, only 7 (yes seven) will run the
    new 3.5 na formula. 1 Mercedes, 1 ALD, 1 Spice, 2 Jags + 2 Pugs 
    The other ten will be overladen turbos. Promises to be an
    exciting series doesn't it?
    
    Mercedes have also confirmed that if the flat 12 proves good enough
    they will go into F1 next year or the year after. Nicki Lauda will 
    be team supremo and Mercedes themselves (presumably Daimler-Benz) 
    will be the main sponsors.
    
    Richard.
      

    Oh my god !!!!!
    
    
    
    	Whatever next .......
    
    
    	I have just got back from sodden basingstoke town having got
    	this weeks autosport.
    
    	Fisa have open the entry to Le Mans to all anyone who has a
    	car that conforms to this year technical specs. I have not had time
    	to read all the bit about whats happening but Jaguar and Merecedes
    	are really miffed and there's talk of a withdrawl from the
    	championship including just madits like kremer and Mazdaspeed.
    
    	There is also an article which points out that fisa's sporting code
    	66 basiclly says that no regulation changes may be made without
    	a unanimous agreement of all the competitors. It is beleived that 
    	maybe peugoet were consulted but non of the other competitors were
    	consulted. It appears that Jean Todt (peugeot) has indicated 
    	that he would be in favour of the idea.
    
    
    	Words fail me past that.
    
    
    
    
    	There is a picture of the xjr14 in autosport . It a bit different
    	init.
    
    
    
    	Garry

RE; -.1

Garry,
	Your note left me confused - perhaps its because I'm not up to date
on the politics ?

>>    	Fisa (sic!) have open the entry to Le Mans to all anyone who has a
>>    	car that conforms to this year technical specs. I have not had time

Why should anyone be upset if a car which matches the 1991 regulations
is entered at Le Mans - I'm missing something subtle, aren't I?!!

Cheers

Steve

    
    The problem is that everyone wants to win Le Mans, but couldn't really
    care less about the WSC. FISA insisted that to race at Le Mans the
    teams had to commit to racing in the whole series. Jaguar, Mercedes
    and Mazda did so (as did Pug, but with little chance of winning Le Mans
    they don't seem too bothered about Nissan's arrival), but now FISA are
    letting Nissan (the biggest loss to the WSC) race just at Le Mans.
    
    You can see why Jag, Merc and (the impoverished) Mazda are a bit miffed
    about Nissan being let in the back door, when they have agreed to do
    all the rounds. Presumably the danger is that Jag, Merc and Mazda will
    pull out of the WSC and leave Peugeot (with a car that seems unlikely
    to last even the 480 kms!) and a handfull of privateers to contest a 
    farce of a championship.
    
    Of course Balestre only asked Peugeot, Mercedes and Jaguar aren't
    French! :^)
    
    Mark

    ooops , yes I was in my normal 3 things at once mode.
    
    
    	To clarify , the entry has been opened  to anyone not registered for
    	WSC but with a car that meets the technical spec for this year.
    	Many of the big teams (jag, merc) are a tetch miffed at the thought
    	of spending lots on money on a new car to meet the regulations and 
    	enter Le Mans when private porsche teams, Joest etc, can come along
    	and just race at Le Mans without all the effort required by the
    	teams entered for the championship. The other point being  that 
    	FISA's own rules say that they can't do that without the consent
    	of all entered, not all the competitors got a say.
    
    
    
    	Thats another fine mess Jean M B
    
    
    	Garry

Thanks, now all is clear...

    
    Ok, we can all calm down now! :^)
    
    FISA have U-turned and Nissan CANNOT race at Le Mans. So either they'll
    be a very small field at Le Mans or they'll be lots of Porsches and
    Spices (as well, it is rumoured, as a 3rd and 4th Jagwar!)
    
    Anyway, additional MN sourced stories this week are that Brundle will
    drive for Jaguar in Japan this coming weekend (alongside both Warwick
    and Fabi), Franz Konrad is to race his Porsches in the WSC until the 
    supposed Wolf-Lamborghini cars appear at Silverstone (believe it
    when/if you see it), and a XJR-11 is to be raced by a Japanese team in 
    the Japanese Group C championship with a couple of drivers I've never
    heard of (One Italian, one American) who are the leading lights in 
    early Japanese F3000 testing.
    
    More later.
    
    Mark
    
    PS and Jaguar won the Miami GP in the IMSA series with an XJR-10 turbo
    car.

    what, you mean that jmb ( ok the other bod put his name to the press
    release) has actually stopped and listened to the opinion of those
    concerned or had pangs on guilt over thier own breaking of the rules.
    
    
    
    	must be the 9th wonder of the world.
    
    
    	GArry

    
    I think he crumbled when he realised that the Big 2 (Merc and Jag)
    could probably beat him in court...
    
    Mark

Today April 11 at 18h00 (Tokyo time !) is the deadline for registration to
the WSCC.

At present we have:

 1 Team Sauber Mercedes	 Jean-Lois Schlesser/Jochen Mass	MB C11 (turbo)
 2 Team Sauber Mercedes	 Michael Schumacher/Karl Wendlinger	MB C291 (3.5)
 3 Silk Cut Jaguar	 Derek Warwick/TBA			Jaguar XJR14
 4 Silk Cut Jaguar	 John Nielsen/Teo Fabi			Jaguar XJR14
 5 Peugeot Talbot Sport	 Keke Rosberg/Yannick Dalmas		Peugeot 905
 6 Peugeot Talbot Sport	 Mauro Baldi/Philippe Alliot		Peigeot 905
 7 Louis Descartes	 Philippe de Henning/Luigi Taverna	ALD Cosworth
 8 Euro Racing		 Charles Zwolsman/Cor Euser		Spice SE90C
11 Porsche Kremer Racing Manuel Reuter/Harri Toivonen		Porsche 962C
12 Courage Competition	 Pascal Fabre/Michel Troll�		Cougar Porsche
14 Team Salamin Primagaz Antoine Salamin/Max Cohen-Olivar	Porsche 962C
15 Veneto Equipe	 Marco Brand/Andre Filippini		Lancia LC2
16 Brun Motorsport	 Jesus Pareja/Walter Brun		Porsche 962C
17 Brun Motorsport	 Oscar Larrauri/Massimo Sigala		Porsche 962C
18 Mazdaspeed		 Maurizio Sala/David Kennedy		Mazda 787
19 Team Davey		 Tim Lee-Davey/TBA			Porsche 962C 
20 Team Davey		 TBA/TBA				Porsche 962C

    VTX is reporting that the ACO (who run Le Mans) are considering not 
    running the race unless they get at least 40 runners. This follows on 
    from FISA's decision NOT to allow teams not registered for the SWC to
    compete at Le Mans.
    
    I suspect (and certainly hope!) that this is bluffing and that Le Mans
    will take place, and probably with a large (if not very high quality
    field). Anyone else wondering if works Porsches might be dusted off?
    They must stand a pretty good chance if they could find some
    semi-decent drivers and a half decent budget.
    
    Mark
    

WSCC 1st round - Suzuka 14 April

1. Alliot/Baldi		Peugeot 905	2h25'01"688
2. SChlesser/Mass	Mercedes C11	1 lap behind
3. Reuter/Toivonen	Porsche 962	2 laps
4. Zwolsman/euser	Spice		2 laps
5. Fouche/Anskar	Porsche 962	3 laps
6. Sala/Kennedy		Mazda		3 laps

    Any idea what happened to the Jags ???

    Warwick lead for most of the race but got stuck in the pits with about
    12 laps to go with a starter motor failure. Brundle was up to second I
    think before fuel pressure problems got him (again, I think)
    
    Paul

    
    Brundle out on lap 4, Warwick had a 29 second lead prior to retirement.
    
    Sounds like Jags are the class of the 3.5s, but they really should do 
    some more testing! :^(
    
    Mark

Warwick was cross - I saw the closing laps where he 'unlapped' himself from the
leading Peugeot by doing a bit of bodywork bashing - he decided that the corner
was his - and that was that!

The Mercedes of Mass had some damage above the front-right wheel - it was all
taped up. Looks as though something broke (oil cooler?) and necessitated
hurried repairs. Anyone got any more information this?

Good for Peugeot to have a debut win; however it looks as though things will be
tougher next time. 5 different makes in first 6 cars.

    � Good for Peugeot to have a debut win; however it looks as though things 
    � will be tougher next time. 5 different makes in first 6 cars.
    
    Debut, of course, only in the sense that it was their first win. They
    raced in 2 races at the end of last season.
    
    Mark
    
    PS Do you know what happened to Rosberg?

    Bit of a disapointing result for Jaguar but I think it in itself makes
    a point. The pole of Warwick also made a statement. I don't remember
    the exact times but it was arount the 1.48 mark, that was considerably
    faster that the peugeot and some 3 to 4 seconds faster that the 1st 
    merc .
    
    
    
    	On the subject of the Jaguar , a friend of mine works with a chap
    who has a testing contract with Derek Warwick's Honda crx's. Recently
    he was testing at silverstone and derek was there with some top
    johnnies for either Ford or Jaguar.  Derek  feeling good willed
    squeezed the test driver into the passengers seat ( Well, space ) and
    got taken for a 3 lap in an XJR14 . The guy explained that it was not
    very comfortable but it was quick with a capital Q. It would appear
    that TWR had been testing the 14 and had completely blown the lap
    record for the new circuit out of the water, not even a F1 is near it 
    in testing to date.
    
    Garry
    

    .32�    PS Do you know what happened to Rosberg?
    
    Clutch failure. A major problem that Peugeot has been concentrating on
    for several months already.
    
    The 3.5ltr Mercedes C291 driven by the 2 German teenagers caught fire.
    
    The Jags appeared to be very quick.

    I think Jags were 1-2... I don't know if I translated the (German) TV
    report right. Its a holiday in England today. No doubt we'll find
    out for sure tommorrow.

    
    Brundle/Warwick first
    
    Fabi/Brundle second.
    
    Some silver car third and then a load of no-hopers.
    
    :^)
    
    Mark

Has anyone been to Silverstone since they re-vamped the circuit ?

I've got tickets for Sunday and wondered if anyone could recommend any good/
favourite viewing spots.

General Info:

Silverstone, 0327 857273

I paid for Sunday,  13 Trackside, 10 Grandstand, 8 Centre Transfer.
Bloody rip-off.

Sundays programme, (Slightly garbled as I could write fast enough)

	 9:30 Warm Up
	10:20 Porsche race
	11:15 Vauxuall Lotus
	11:50 Dunlop Rover GTI
	12:30 Lunch
	13:30 Pit lane opens
	14:00 WSPC
	16:30 Approx finish
	17:00 Stunt driving
	17:30 Saloon cars (not sure)

Ian.

    At least at �13 its cheaper that the �20 last year. Damed inconsiderate
    that to put the FA cup and a wsc race on the same weekend. But worst
    than that I can't go cos I'm racing somewhere else... 
    
    
    Garry
    
    (will make Le Mans)
    

    I'll be there, as a guest of Jaguar Sport 8-).
    
    What it is to have friends in the right places.......
    
    Nev.

    
    
    	Kept that quiet , I'll be in company of Scot Stringfellow and Wendy 
    	Barbham , if only racing against them at another track. 8-(
    
    
    
    	Garry

    
    Ian,
    
    Isn't the WSC race the first race on the new format GP circuit?
    
    The Vale (coming up from Stowe) is supposed to be good. If I go,
    I hope to be able to wander around the circuit a bit and watch from
    various places.
    
    Anyone know how long the race is in Sunday (in terms of Kms, rather
    than laps)?
    
    Mark

    
    
    Think its 500km.
    
    
    Nev.

    Normal race distance is 430km (except Le Mans ...)

    Well, I went to Silverstone yesterday.
    
    It wasn't the most exciting race I've ever seen, but you've got to hand
    it to Jaguar, that XJR-14 is in a different sport to the others, let
    alone different league!
    
    Fabi lapped the entire field and Brundle made up 4 laps to be placed
    3rd after losing 6 or 7 laps having his throttle cable replaced.
    
    The normally aspirated Merc must get the award for the best sound
    and it's obviously an improving car, easily getting the best of the
    Pugs (Who win noisiest cars of the weekend award with their ear
    splitting howl) after an early tussle.
    
    Did the commentator REALLY say Jaguar are entering 6 cars at Le Mans?
    
    Result :-
    
    1st  Fabi/Warwick Jaguar XJR-14
    2nd  Schumacher/Wendlingler Mercedes C291 -1 lap
    3rd  Brundle XJR14 -2 laps (or was it 3?)
    4th  Mass/Schlesser Mercedes C11 -2 (or 3) laps
    5th  Alliot/Baldi Peugeot  ) Not sure about these positions as they both
    6th  Euser/Piper  Spice    ) made a late stop. They could be reversed.
    .
    .
    .
    
    A blunder on TWRs part meant that Warwick was not eligible for any
    points. Jaguar are now 2 points behind Merc in the Championship, with
    Fabi 2 points adrift of the Turbo Merc drivers.
    
    Mark

    The 6 cars at Le Mans might be true, I think Jaguar were talking about
    running 4 XJR12's . To make the number up to 6 I believe it was a
    couple of weeks ago I read in autosport that twr were thinking of
    putting 2 XJR14's in the line up in an effort to take the pole but did
    not expect them to go the distance. I think from the article it sort of
    suggested that they would run for so long and then pull out, leaving
    the job to the XJR12's with the race proven ability to do the job.
    
    
    
    	On Sundays race, I watched a short bit of the highlights on sky
    sport . Fabi's jaguar was going like stink , I couldn't believe how
    quick he was disapearing. I saw Brunle go into the pits but didn't 
    know why. As for the Jags being in a different league, Provided the cars
    keep going, there does not seem to be anyone capable of getting near
    them let alone challenge them.
    
    
    
    Slight change of, Le Mans 91 is fast sneaking up ,Just over a month
    away. I suppose that a new entry in cars Uk is in order so we can all
    argue over who is going to win....
    
    
    	Garry 
    

    Sorry guys, rather than have a storm of replys for the note pointer to
    the entry for this years Le Mans I'll do it myself. Its note 1330 .
    I'll tender the excuse that I am a physical wreck today.
    
    Garry

    
    There WILL be 6 Jaguars entered for Le Mans due to a ruling by FISA
    that all teams entering a N/A car in the rest of the championship must
    also enter those cars at Le Mans (In addition to others e.g. XJR-12s).
    
    Mercedes will also be obliged to enter a C291. Apparently the French
    version of the Le Mans regs makes this clear, but the English
    translation didn't.
    
    This should mean a battle for pole. Or, if Le Mans isn't a freak, a
    Jaguar XJR-14 on pole. TWR have said that the XJR-14 will be withdrawn
    early on from the race and the second XJR-14 on the entry list will
    only be presented at scrutineering and will take no further part in the
    event.
    
    TWR/Jaguar are to appeal against Warwick's exclusion from the points 
    at Silverstone on Sunday. Tim Lee-Davey is to return to the WSC at Le
    Mans and plans to do all the races after it with a Porsche in readiness
    for a full N/A season in 1992 (possibly with a March?).
    
    Mark
    
    PS The full Le Mans entry list is in MN this week. If I get time I'll
    type it in.

    I am lead to understand that the Warwick appeal will not be lodged. I'm
    not sure but I think Fisa has indicated that the will not entertain the
    appeal. I hate to agree with that but it does sound reasonable. Warwick
    was not entered as a driver in the car he drove, whereas Brundle was
    entered in both. IF Warwick had started the car , with the driver
    arrangement they had the problem would not have arrisen, or for that
    matter if the throttle cable had not broken there would not have been a
    problem. 
    
    
    
    	Garry 
    
    
    	( 1 month and counting ) 

Re 1387.50

>    not sure but I think Fisa has indicated that the will not entertain the
                                                  ^^^

Is that THEY or HE ??? :^)

Alex

    Whats the point of entering a car you don't intend to race ? And whats
    the point of entering a car yo intend to withdraw ?

    
    Re .52
    
    None at all, but that's FISA's silly rules for you. No doubt it also
    allows them to claim a full(er) field for the 24 hour race.
    
    Still, the first � hour should be pretty exciting! :^)
    
    Mark

I don't think that FISA's ruling is unfair, in fact I have always wondered why
the teams weren't being forced to run the 3.5 litre cars at LeMans. Peugot
are going to be doing it aren't they? Why should it be impossible for Jag
to run a 3.5 litre formula car for the full duration? Done properly, this
could make for a very interesting tortise and hare race......

One way or another I'll go watch them, but I think Jag are overly keen on
working both sides of every rule this year.

Terry 
a disappointed ex Nissan supporter :-(  

    
    Peugeot don't have any choice but to run 3.5 litre cars. They haven't
    got a turbo/V12 big capacity car. However, given Pug reliability it is
    unlikely that the Peugeot drivers will  need to keep the 23rd June
    free!
    
    Personally, I think it's good that the teams are having to enter 3.5 
    litre cars (after all, they should have to run ONLY them next year),
    but obviously the teams are going to conform only to the letter of the
    rule rather than the spirit as they feel it will impact their chances
    of success with their older design cars.
    
    Mark
    
    PS Yes, Nissan are a big dissapointment! :^(

    So long as Fisa won't admit to being a bunch of nerds and get the rules 
    sorted, forget about making megabucks , organise motorsport for
    motorsport , it will always be a farse.
    
    This year in WSC was always going to be silly. As long the rules are
    airy fairy, teams with real money will take advantage of the silly
    rules. I can't say that I agree with TWR putting 4 XJR12's in for Le
    Mans , They must have a better chance that the V8 XJR14, well proven
    design and all that, but the rules allow it. What about all the private
    Porsche teams that are piggy backing on teams that have entered WSC, is
    that fair or what.
    
    
    A silly world and fisa created it
    
    
    
    
    	Garry

    
    re .54
    
    It seems ridiculous to criticise Jaguar for racing according to
    the regulations.
    

re .57

Interesting how their position on rules is so fluid when contesting the
decision not to award points to Warwick on Sunday. 

Not that I can blame the teams for trying to exploit the situation, when FISA
has drawn up such a flakey rulebook for the WSC this year, but a series marred
by conflict over the rules, and behind the scenes legal wrangling benifits
nobody. This will be the second year that the Le Mans race will not reflect 
the true contest in the WSC (it wasn't an event in the championship, and Merc
weren't there last year). Next year what is going to happen? There isn't going 
to be enough 3.5 litre equipment to fill the grid..... are they going to drag
out a few 962s out of retirement to pad things out again?

All very disheartening....

Terry

    
    I think we can all be gratefull that Le Mans didn't represent the 
    true competition within the WSPC last year (There was no competition
    as I recall, but Le Mans saw a good Nissan/Jaguar/Brun Porsche battle).
    
    The same may well be true this year, either the XJR-14 would last and
    walk away with the race or it'd fail and a slow, but reliable car would
    come through to win (maybe some would say that's the nature of a 24
    hour race, but then why not have all slow(ish), but reliable cars and
    make a 24 hour race of it?).
    
    As usual, Le Mans is the race everyone wants to win. Like it or not, it
    isn't just another round of the championship, it's one of the world's
    top 3 races. Without Le Mans the championship is nothing, without the
    championship Le Mans can (and has) survived.
    
    Mark

�    isn't just another round of the championship, it's one of the world's
�    top 3 races. Without Le Mans the championship is nothing, without the
    
    What would you say are the other two top races ?
    
    J.R.

    
    Exactly those two.
    
    Mark

    What about the Daytona 24hr ?
    
    Or the famous Spa 2CV 24hr 8-)

    Sitting here reading Autosport, it would seem that it don't end there.
    Races have already be cancelled due to finacial reasons, probably the
    circuit was not going to make sufficent out of the race. Well the
    Nurburgring race looked to be a a faller. The ADAC had talks with the
    Farce and some sort of arrangement has been reached saving the race.
    
    Back to Sundays , on the bear face of the facts what happened is fair.
    But not being an owner of a copy of the Yellow book ( only the Blue
    Book ) I can't argue the toss on the WSC rule relating to drives and
    nonimations etc. In an article in autosport they are going on about
    only driving in 1 car. Now the way I understood that was that you could
    be nonimated to x number of cars but could only drive in 1. But
    thinking about the winning car at Le Mans last year that was not the
    case, Brudle was named in car 1 , car 1 broke and Brundle changed to
    car 3 inplace of, I think , Sala. Unless I missed something , Brundle
    has driven 2 cars ( ????) and was only named in 1 . I think there is
    some other rule about the lenght of time the driver must do in the car
    to be classified , pass on the figures. Nevertheless does that no
    amount to much the same thing. 
    
    There are comments from Jochen Neerpasch ( merc ) and the FISA steward
    Alain Bertaut ( do do who put the spanner in the works). Neerpasch 	is
    agreeing with Tom Walkinshaw as the rules ( certainly last year )
    allowed that. What chummie from Fisa is saying is , sure last year you
    could have done this but this year NO.. He quotes article 27e as the
    rule that covers situation. The rest of the article  from the man from
    fisa seems to suggest that , the rule might have been the way you
    though last year but not now.
    
    
    
    Garry
    
    
    

    Re .62
    
    True.
    
    
    
    Scrub Indy and add the Spa 2CV race! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    Re: .62 + .64
    
    
    Hey you lot, less of the :v)s about the 2CVs - I've paid to watch
    that race!
    
    
    Has Paul Ricard been canned for this weekend? 

    
    Re .65
    
    Presumably you missed out the word "been" from your last note? :^)
    
    Mark

    Paul Ricard was still reserved and was used by all 3 major teams to do
    some 24hr testing. Local press described the Peugeot efforts : lots of
    technical problems with engines, gearboxes, and minor components. Merc
    and Jaguar are reported to be running smoothly but only during daytime.
    
    All teams are convinced that this year Le Mans will not go to a 1991
    car (3.5 normally aspirated). Interesting thought : why not let the
    24hr races into their own class ? 2nd thought : do we really need those
    430km modified F1 (F1s with a body) races at all ?

    
    Only the Jaguar XJR-14 fits the F1 with body description, even the
    Peugeot is a generation behind the Jag! 
    
    F1 style sportscars are nothing new. There was a brief spell of 
    successful 3.0 litre sportscar racing in the 60s, but the expense
    soon pushed everyone out and eventually sportscar racing fell into
    the doldrums of Group 5, which was only alleviated by Lancias cheeky
    playing of the rules (don't beat the Porsches, just win the other
    class!) and, eventually, pressure from Le Mans to return to closed
    purpose built sports-racing cars.
    
    Mark

    Well, dispite last week it appeared the Twr were not going to appeal
    against Warwick loosing the points at silverstone . The appeal has been
    lodged throught the RAC MSA along with the 30,000ff. Tom is pointing
    out in the appeal that the 28 day before race nomination bit has been
    waived , or at least appears to have been so far this season. But more
    significantly they point out that they have the right to appeal. This
    is because TWR requested a hearing with the Fisa steward at the race
    who informed that he was not intrested in what they had to say and if
    they didn't like it appeal to Fisa via the RAC MSA. Although the fisa
    bod could not authorize such an appeal , the lack of a hearing is a
    major breach of the sporting code as laided out in the yellow book, TWR
    have really got the ike about that. They also go on to mention about
    rulings for reserve drivers and the points rulings.
    
    
    
    Off that subject, Walter Brun still has his court action outstanding
    from last years ws-pc race. The way I read the article in autosport
    this week suggests that it is possible that injunctions could be placed
    during the course of the Canadian GP. I can see some pretty heated
    arguments if that does happen.
    
    And last but not least , the Le Mans entry is 46. 2 late entries, 1
    from courage competition adding a 6th car, an Almeras run 962. The
    other is a 2nd car for Chamberlain engineering , a spice driven by Nick
    Adams,Richard Jones and Robin Donovan.
    
    
    
    Garry
    

    
    Re TWR appeal.
    
    MN says something about claiming that Fabi HAD to come in due to
    fatigue and therefore a substitute driver had to be put in the car
    (Warwick)...
    
    Dunno...
    
    Mark

    I guess that could be possible, it sounds to me that the FISA steward
    do twr a favour. In any case I guess the substitute driver rule applies
    to the driver swap.
    
    Garry

It is Nurenberg on Sunday, isn't it?

    
    Yes.
    
    The Jaguars still seem the car to beat, but Peugeot have revised their 
    car and gained 1.5 seconds a lap at Paul Ricard in testing. The Pug now 
    looks more like the Jaguar, with a full depth rear wing at the back.
    
    Mercedes have got a new engine in their car and have implemented some
    detail changes. Whilst hoping that Jaguar scoop the championships this
    year, I certainly hope that the changes that Merc and Pug have made
    will bring them closer to the XJR-14. The difference between the Jag
    and the rest at Silverstone was laughable.
    
    Still, Walter Brun is planning to debut his Judd powered 3.5 litre car
    and Franz Konrad's Lamborghini powered car MAY be ready. The Spice has 
    a new factory suspension to try out and the Porsches will be trying
    their best too.
    
    The best thing about this weekend's race is that I can watch it on 
    Eurosport, thanks to my newly acquired satellite system! :^)
    
    Mark

re .last

It's at the N�rburgring (nr Koblenz).

The place you mention is about 100 miles north of Munich. They have a 
famous street race circuit there as well, but I can't remember what its
called (Norisring?). I've seen pictures of the place when they've had
rounds of the German touring cars/German sports prototypes and the place
was full of people. In contrast, the N�rburgring this weekend will be empty.

I imagine that, like Silverstone, this race will be a bit of a procession.
Peugeot have a new car, Mercedes have done some development but I can't
see anyone beating the Jags.

I think Silverstone was the first time the 3.5 Merc had beaten the turbo
Merc, so it will be interesting to see which car Schlesser chooses. Up
till now, he's always been in the turbo. 

I presume Jaguar must be close to winning the constructors championship?
A 2-3-4 at Le Mans (and still triple points?) should have just about
put them beyond reach?

Richard.

Sorry, last note was in reply to .72

    
    Richard,
    
    I believe that Mercedes have now dropped the C11 and are only using
    the 3.5 car in future races.
    
    Mark

    Yep, I think there was mention of that in autosport sometime back . I
    think it basicly said that Schlesser and Mass had given up hope on the
    C11 and moved to the 291 or what ever the 3.5 is designated.
    
    
    	Garry

I have a schedule published early this year which shows a couple North 
American dates in late September and early October.  I haven't heard 
anything else about theses dates.  Last year one of stops was the infamous 
"flying manhole-cover" at Montreal.

What is the remainder of the schedule?

    
    I think all the US dates are off...
    
    There are three European rounds left at Nurburgring, Jerez and
    Magny Cours (or maybe Paul Ricard) and the final round is in
    Japan at Autopolis.
    
    Richard.

    
    It seems Jerez is off to now (I heard on Saturday on the radio)
    
    Some world championship.... looks like JMB has protected the F1 sacred
    cow from another racing formula.
    
    Any results yet? BBC don't seem to have these yet.
    
    Terry
    

    
    A Jaguar 1-2. Warwick leading Fabi's car (both co-driven by Brabham)
    over the line by 2 seconds at the line (for advertising reasons
    obviously. The Kremer Porsche finished a respectable (albeit 6 laps
    down) 3rd.
    
    However, this wasn't the walkover of recent races. Both the Mercedes
    and, more noticeably, the Peugeot teams have worked their cars into
    a much higher state of performance. At one point Alliot had his
    Peugeot ahead of Brabham (in Warwick's car) and seemed to be able to
    maintain his lead fairly easily.
    
    What both Mercedes and Peugeot seem to have sacrificed for performance
    is reliability. While both Mercedes finished well at Silverstone, they
    both retired before the first round of pit-stops this time, and
    Peugeot's challenge was severely blunted by a spin into the gravel
    by Rosberg early on (something may have broken, but Brabham commented
    after the race that the track was very oily in the early stages) and
    Alliot's impressive run ended in a very oily bang from the engine (the 
    engine was so badly damaged that it dumped enough oil onto the track to
    cause many Porsches to spin, and almost took out Warwick's closely
    following car too. The pace car was sent out until the oil could be
    cleared).
    
    With the failure of both Peugeot and, more significantly, Mercedes,
    Jaguar now lead the drivers and makes championship by hefty margins,
    but there seems little doubt, based on yesterday's race, that we won't
    be seeing the Jaguar walkovers of the earlier races again.
    
    Mark

    Well done TWR !
    
    I've had a chance to see a view of the Mercedes flat-12 engine. It has
    both inlet and exhaust on the top of the engine making the bottom
    absolutely flat and allowing a VERY low position into the chassis and a
    very low C of G at the rear end. Now, this is OK for weight balance but
    what about engine performance ? The answer is : Mercedes (and Peugeot)
    engines are probably 100+bhp under the Ford HB Series 5.
    
    Peugeot (according to Jean Todt) have worked very hard on 
    
    1. fixing their gearbox reliability problems
    2. getting slightly more horsepower/torque from their V10
    3. improving the aerodynamics of the body
    
    in that order.
    
    Mercedes (not Sauber) are definitely in trouble with their engine.

    Not a walkover in that jaguar went away from the start and stayed out
    in front , but 6 laps is a fair way infront in my books. I didn't watch
    all the race so I didn't see how the Peugeot passed that Jag, but its
    one thing being fast , and another one finishing. 
    
    I was in and out yesterday so as I mentioned didn't see all of the race
    but the jag seemed to be catching the peugeot  like there was
    no tomorrow.  The next time I watched a bit more there was oil all over
    the bend at the end of the pit straight. Can I assume that the peugeot
    slowed before it clapped out , or did it just let go?
    
    Nevertheless more points in the bag.. 
    
    	Wonder how is going to win the championship.... with the
    reliability of the merc and the peugeot 25 points would seem to be a
    tall order. Still best not count eggs.
    
    GArry

    
    Garry,
    
    The Peugeot was in the lead for quite a few laps and the Jaguar didn't
    seem to be able to close up for many laps (of course, he could have
    just  been running to a plan), but quite quickly the Jaguar closed up
    (the commentary suggested the Pug was slowing) and then BANG! it was
    gone (just after a pitstop). In practice the Jaguar was well under a 
    second ahead of the first Peugeot.
    
    However, as you said, being fast is one thing, finishing is another.
    Ask the Kremer Porsche drivers! :^)
    
    Mark

    hum.... 
    	intresting that the 3rd place car was a cat 2 car. Just think how
    miffed merc must be . I suppose they could have been in the points if
    they had run the C 11.  One thing I didn't understand , I caught the
    end, the commentator way wittering on about the fact that Merecedes had
    taken the option to run the 2 291's and now they have to run them for
    the rest of the season and no going back to the C11. Perhaps I missed 
    something but if Merc can't go back how come jag used the XJR12 at Le
    Mans , or was that just one of those strange rules that fisa seem to
    the masters at.
    
    	Garry

    
    When/where is the next round?
    
    Mark

    Magny Cours ... dunno when.
    
    Steve

    seeing as how I have the F1 and wsc fixture list on my terminal, I'll
    put the rest of the season up.
    
    
    	1st september should have been Jerez.
    
    	15th september		Magny Cours
    	
    	6th october		Mexico City
    
    	27th october		Autopolis

    
    A proposed 1992 calendar is in this  week's MN.
    
    It is :-
    
    Eastern Creek (AUS)	22/3/92
    Suzuka (J) 12/4/92
    Monza (I) 26/4/92
    Silverstone (GB) 10/5/92
    Jarama (E) 24/5/92
    Le Mans (F) 25/6/92
    Brands Hatch (GB) 26/7/92
    Nurburgring (D) 23/8/92
    Spa (B) 3/9/92
    Mugello (I) 27/9/92
    ??? (MEX) 18/10/92
    Autopolis (J) 1/11/92
    
    It'll be interesting to see which races are on the final calendar.
    
    If it stays as shown, next season could be expensive! :^)
    
    Mark
    

    
    �    It'll be interesting to see which races are on the final calendar.

    They'll probably finish up with 8 or 9 again like this year....
    still it would be great if Brands was back on the agenda.
    
    Richard.

    based on the fact that there are possibly some more teams joining the 
    frey next year I bet jmb in his infinate stupidity has assumed that 
    the support from tv and fans will come flooding in. 
    
    At his age he should know better.
    
    Garry

    
    Well I'll be watching EVERY race (either on TV or at the circuit!).
    
    Mark

    
    Did anyone read the little snippet in autosport about Allard. I don't
    know about any one else but it seemed to me that someone has just
    revived then name. The chassis will be for customers with I beleive a 
    cosworth DFR, somes alot like this BRM that is supposed to put in an
    appearance. What worries me about all this is ,
    with the exit of porsche for wsc at the end of the season, will all
    these name revivals fill the gap. Intrestingly enough also in this weeks
    , I think, These was a little bit that said JMB was going to make a
    statement about WSC a Monza and his support for it.  
    
    
    Will WSC survive??????
    
    
    
    

        
�    Will WSC survive??????

    Perhaps, Garry, the question should have been....

        "Will WSC survive JMB ?????"
    

    
    Well, if yesterday's race is anything to go by the competition is
    hotting up in the WSC.
    
    The result was another walkover, with the leading team 2 laps ahead of 
    everyone else. However that leading team weren't Jaguar!
    
    Peugeot use Magny Cours for testing and their experience (and maybe
    Michelin's even more) showed as the team wrapped up the front row
    and then strolled to a 1-2 in the race. Mercedes were closest to them
    in qualifying, but never showed strongly in the race as Schlesser and 
    Schumacher both retired early on.
    
    Jaguar were way off the pace all weekend, with the fastest car in
    practice only 4th. The team complained of an inability to set the car
    up properly for Magny Cours, so Mexico and Autopolis (in Japan) could
    easily see a return to form for the TWR/Silk Cut team.
    
    Fabi/Brabham salvaged a distant 3rd with Warwick/Brabham an even more
    distant 5th after a refuelling fire, behind the Euroracing Spice which
    ran well all race, albeit a good few laps down by the end. The Jaguar
    was visibly unhappy on the Magny Cours circuit, but Fabi's 3rd makes
    Jaguar's lead assailable only by optomists and mathematicians. Jaguar
    now have 87 points with Peugeot 18 behind and Mercedes 15 behind. With
    only 20 points left to be won, that would mean one of these teams
    scooping both victories with Jaguar scoring virtually no points at all.
     
    Next race, Mexico, October 6th.
    
    Mark

    Peugeot (Jean Todt's team) have done a pretty good job. 
    
    They've had a good deal of luck when they won the 1st race in Suzuka.
    Magny-Cours  was their real 1st success.
    
    If you consider that the car (and the team) really debuted a year ago
    they have worked hard and done a very well planned development work on
    car, engine, pits, etc ...
    
    I have a lot of respect for people like Jean Todt, Tom Walkinshaw, etc
    ... as much as I have for Ron Dennis etc ... 

    
    And again.
    
    Rosberg and Baldi took another 1-2 in Mexico to prove that the
    home advantage of Magny-Cours wasn't all they had in their 
    favour. However, it could have all been so different...
    
    From the start Peugeot took the lead and started to pull away.
    Schumacher starred again, but eventually Mercedes' engine let them
    down (what a sorry season they've had this year) and both Mercs
    retired.
    
    I missed the first 10 laps of the race (Live on Eurosport), but I
    never saw Fabi at all. Warwick, on the other hand was a star of 
    the race.
    
    While the first 2/3rds of the race were held on a dry track the 
    Peugeot's appeared to have a huge power advantage over everyone
    else. Mexico is very high and the V8's of the Jaguars and the flat
    12s of the Mercs were struggling to pass Porsches on the straights
    (A good time for Joest to reappear under the guise of Salamin). but  
    the Pugs had the legs on everyone.
    
    However, when it started to rain, the Peugeot advantage evaporated.
    
    Alliot span away the lead and Warwick was taking 2-3 seconds a lap
    away from the Rosberg and was clearly in striking distance, until 
    backmarkers, a quick spin and the drying track all conspired to
    allow the Peugeot number 6 to get away again.
    
    All looked good for a Jaguar second place to allow them to clinch 
    the championship for teams, but with only 11 laps to go there was
    real drama to come.
    
    Warwick was presumably suffering with his wets on a drying track and
    came in for slicks. The change went smoothly, but the car refused to
    start. A slave battery appeared, but made no difference. Off came the
    bodywork. Surely Jaguar couldn't be robbed of those crucial 3 points
    at this late stage. A couple of laps went by and the car had dropped to
    6th (6 points), maybe it was all over? But, then, with 3 laps to go the
    Jaguar returned to the track (seemingly as healthy as ever) to take
    sixth and secure the World Championship for Jaguar. 
    
    However, the Peugeot 1-2 means the Driver's championship is still wide
    open for the last race in Japan on October 27th.
    
    Result :-
    
    1) Peugeot 905 - Rosberg/Dalmas
    2) Peugeot 905 - Alliot/Baldi
    3) Joest Porsche 962 - Schneider/?
    4) Euro Racing Spice - Euser/?
    5) Joest Porsche 962 - Bell/Moretti (Old men back in the points!)
    6) Jaguar XJR-14 - Warwick/Brabham.

    What was the problem with the Jag????? I didn't hear a a reason during
    the race. 
    
    
    	Any Offers
    
    
    	Garry

    
    Which one?
    
    Fabi never appeared while I was watching, but they kept saying he was 
    there. My guess is they could only see our pictures.
    
    Warwick (I'm guessing) had a starter motor problem. Either that or 
    his electrics were water-logged, but I would have expected that to
    happen on the track rather than in the pits.
    
    Mark

I've not watched a lot of Sports Car racing this year, but at the beginning
of the season the Jag appeared to be streets ahead of the rest.

What has happened since ???

>> What has happened since ???
    
    They've been bought by F*rd  :-) :-) :-)
    
    Stevie.

    
    Well, not quite true! :^)
    
    At a guess I'd say it's two things.
    
    One, Peugeot have ploughed a lot of money into their car. Remember the
    car winning NOW was supposed to be NEXT year's car, but the Jaguar was 
    just too good. They've now found the reliabilty that they lacked in 
    early races with the Bis.
    
    Secondly, the Peugeot seems to have a LOT of power. Certainly more than
    the gutless V8 in the Jaguar. Just as in F1 where the HB is a good Div
    2 engine, I suspect it fulfills the same role in Group C. Peugeot had 
    home advantage in France and Jaguar have proved many times just how
    usefull that can be by turning the results upside down at Silverstone.
    In Mexico the Jags and the Mercs were unable to pass the Joest Porsches
    and Cougars on the straights, and even the Pugs had trouble, such was 
    the power deficit of the N/A cars at that altitude. Only the Pugs had 
    the power to 'compete' on the straights which left them well ahead of
    the other N/A cars. Another hint that this might be the reason for
    Jaguar's apparent downturn was that when the track got wet the 
    Jaguar was suddenly the class of the field again.
    
    Obviously this is greatly conjecture (The Pug MAY just be a brilliant
    car), but if true, TWR are going to need to find some more power for
    '92 if they're not to be outgunned next season.
    
    Mark

Anyone know the development path of the Ford HB engine in the Jag ?

Is Jag just getting the latest m,ill from Ford, or do they have their own
development program using the base HB unit ?

Either way, it augurs well for Peugeot's F1 aspirations (if any) ?

    Going back to sundays Water polo match. On ceefax last night it said
    that Warwick's car had a jammed starter motor and the other car failed to
    start because of an oil leak. I thought this starter motor thing had
    happened before ant that TWR had nailed the problem, strange that it
    should happen again.
    
    
    Garry

    
    Re .105
    
    Maybe Uncle Tom is spreading TWR resources too thin these days?
    
    Mark

    I don't get it.  When the Jag blew folks away at the beginning of the
    season it was a gem.  No one was close.  All that good stuff.  Not that
    the Pugs have come good the engine is a slug and the car's second
    class.
    
    Could it be that Tom underestimated Pugs determination and resources? 
    
    Paul
    

    
    The Jaguar is still (I THINK) the best chassis, but the engine IS
    below par (anyone care to disagree that the HB is a second-rate engine
    in F1 form too?). While Peugeot couldn't got around corners at anywhere
    near Jaguar speed there wasn't a problem. Now they can, the straight
    line speed is a handicap.
    
    The revisions to the Pug were enormous (as I mentioned it was SUPPOSED
    to be NEXT YEAR'S car) and Jaguar do NOT have the budget available to
    bring development forward a year (assuming Ford refuse to bankroll the
    project).
    
    The Jaguar has been, on the whole, very consistent this year, which is a 
    lot more than can be said for Mercedes who have a bottomless pit of budget.
    
    Jaguar have won the World Championship, a Jaguar driver will PROBABLY win 
    the driver's championship, and they came close to winning another race
    last sunday (albeit fortuitously).
    
    
    The last 2 races MAY have flattered the Peugeots (home advantage and
    altitude), but there can be no doubt that their new car IS close to
    the Jaguar in terms of chassis performance (as is the Merc while it
    goes). However the clues SEEM to point to a Peugeot power advantage
    being the real clue to their new found dominance.
     
    Mark

        
    
    Mark, don't Jag run a detuned HB? 
    
    The Pugs have done well in the last two races, but they've spent
    a fortune getting there. And as a factory team, like Mercedes with
    an almost unlimited budget, they should be doing well. Unlike Mercedes
    of course, they are!
    
    Jaguar Cars never spent much of their own money (�1m out of a �15m 
    budget) supporting the team, so even if Ford are miserly, the impact 
    should not have been great. 
    
    I think Peugeot have just come good at the right time and Jaguar
    have been unreliable at the wrong time. Next season and a new car
    for Jaguar will prove wether Peugeot can maintain their advantage.
    
    

    
    Yes Jaguar run a recammed HB (for greater reliabilty), which produces
    less maximum power.
    
    The comment about Ford wasn't supposed to imply that they were cutting
    back, merely that Ford don't have much interest in Group C. You are
    right in that Gallaghers (Silk Cut) cough up most of the funds for the
    Jaguar racing operation. To combat teams like Mercedes and Peugeot
    really needs greater funds than Silk Cut provide. The only way Jaguar
    SHOULD be able to compete with Peugeot and Mercedes (and the Japanese
    if they ever get serious about the WSC) would be with official Ford
    backing. Without that they will ultimately be overwhelmed by the
    financial muscle of their competitors. 
    
    Of course, Mercedes have done their best to blow this theory to pieces
    this year by producing a slow and reliable or fast and unreliable car,
    but never one which could go fast enough for long enough to win a race.
    
    Mark

    
    Teo Fabi won the World Sportscar Drivers Championship at Suzuka
    at the weekend. Fabi finished third behind the other Jaguar
    and the 'junior' Mercedes.
    
    The Mercedes of Wendlinger and Schumacher won the race in one of
    its few finishes this season. Derek Warwick was second just under
    a minute behind. 
    
    The Geoff Lees/Andy Wallace driven, Tony Southgate designed Toyota 
    came sixth in its first outing of the season.

    Result:
    
    Mercedes  Schumacher/Wendlinger
    Jaguar    Warwick/Brabham
    Jaguar    Fabi/Brabham
    Peugeot   Alliot
    Mercedes  Schlesser
    Toyota    Lees/Wallace
    
    Drivers Championship
    
    1. Fabi
    2. Warwick
    3. Alliot
    4. Baldi
    
    

If only we could have had a result like this at the beginning of the season
rather than the end. Looks like there were 4 teams with first class 3.5
litre formula cars..... will they have races to run them in next year?

Hands up who thinks the SWC has been killed by this season's performance?

Terry

    For me sportscar racing started to go down a very slipery slope the day
    that 3.5 litre was suggested. I have never seen WEC , WSPC  or WSC as a 
    glamour sport . It has never had a big following , the only race apart 
    from Le Mans I have been to with a big crowd was the 88 brands hatch
    race, I wonder why????   Another thing that will have helped is the
    cost of entry for the spectator, Who can remember when entry was #12
    and centre transfer was #2 or #3. Is it any wonder that the racing
    going public look at the cost, Now #20 , and they know that is a 2
    horse race with a load of no hopers. If Bernie and JMB thought they
    could make a killing out of sportscar racing the same as they do for
    F1 they though wrong. The only killing they made was the sport.
    
    Did anyone read Autosport a few weeks ago, there was a big article on Max
    Mosley. He did not have too many good words about what JMB done to
    sportscar racing and the fact that some of the dissions were made
    without consultation. I personally think that F1 does not need Fisa
    Fisa Needs F1 and I also think the same would have been true about WEC
    before fisa screwed it up. All the top teams are highly
    motivated, well financed, very well organised and very well supported,
    what do they need from Fisa, a chapionship and rules. Well I'm sure
    that the rules are no problems and as for venus, who would say no to
    holding a round. As for saftey , I think most of the drivers in F1 ans
    sportscar racing are more than sensible and vocal enough to shout when
    things are not safe. I circuits don't or can't change the answer is
    simple, no change no race. It doesn't tahke an economist to work out
    what effect that has. Why don't fisa talk to the people who runs the teams
    and findout what they expect or want. Max Mosley seems to see to
    suggest that the racing is for those who compete and not to make Fisa's
    or anyone elses wallet fat, He also seems to have Identified that Le
    Mans race with a lot of history behind it and so far as possible must 
    continue.
    
    
    I hope Max does something positive to address the situation .
    
    
    
    Garry

I do agree that the invention of the 3.5 litre class was a bad idea, but surely
one of the main contributions to the poor racing this year has been the 
inability of the "top" teams to finish races. It seems to have taken a full 
season for them to learn how to keep a car running for the full "sprint" race
distance, was it really so bad when F1 dropped the turbos and went to 3.5
litre?

I agree with you 100% about the entry price to circuits. 

I hope that Mosely can fix things, and I know that he has set himself a 1 year
deadline to make things better, but I can't help but feel that there is
going to be a lower cost formula invented to replace the SWC, and that the
class as we know it today is dead.....  

Still, we live in hope,

Terry

    Just read/heard a note on Mercedes deciding not to compete in 1992
    sports car championship.
    
    Has anyone read/heard same message ?
    
    Reasons given: WSPC does not help sales, F1 program will eat all
    resources, might even start F1 in 1992 with Ilmor.

    I don't totally agree with the 3.5 litre idea taking so long. Look at
    what was there before and what the teams had to change too. Look at
    Jaguar and the 3.5 litre turbo, That took best part of a year to get it
    working right, Sauber took longer to get the merc really running. I
    think the real problem is being caught between 2 worlds. WEC or
    whatever has always been a long distance race requiring an engine with 
    plenty of power and capable of lasting the distance. Whereas now the
    race is much shorter and they are using F1 type engines designed for
    all out speed and to last a much shorter time. To add to that you have
    a car that produces much higher downforce than an f1 car which needs a
    fine balance between engine and chassis.
    
    Taking all that into consideration and that fact that last year all the
    top teams were still running turbos or big stock blocks, This year is
    like a totally new formula for most of them. No excuse as spice , gp
    motorsport, Argo and anyother C2 car has run a 3.5 engine for ages, but
    when you look at what they have done in 1 year its not so bad. 
    
    Garry

    Jochen Neerspech is quoted in todays paper as saying that the result 
    (Autopolis) won't influence their decision regarding 92. They will be
    working on a car for next year, and that they are studying the F1 side
    of things. A case of "Watch this space..."
    

    
    If Mercedes withdraws, then I think Jaguar might go the same way.
    Racing against Porsches, Mercs and Astons is one thing. But      
    I don't believe that Jaguar sales or kudos would be enhanced by
    racing against the likes of Peugeot, Nissan, Toyota and Mazda.

    Re : 3.5 litre reliability.
    
    It's hardly surprising that the major teams have had reliability
    problems - an eight race season doesn't allow for much development
    and one of those was Le Mans where no-one used (Pug apart) 3.5 cars.
    
    Its also not fair to compare F1 reliability with WSC. WSC isn't run 
    on F1 budgets and obviously couldn't afford to lash out on endless 
    testing and modification.

    Richard.    

    
    Re .118
    
    I'm not sure about those budgets Richard. I remember reading how much
    Jaguar spent each year and, although I can't remember the exact figure,
    it suprised me by how much it was!
    
    Mark

    Whatever happens , so long as they don't close the champagne umbrella's
    or put the price of a bottle of champers up to high or cancel our
    annual week of total drunkeness , I will still watch sportscar racing.
    
    
    To put thing back into prospective, I'm far to young to remember but
    was there not some sillyness with engine sizes back in the GT40 era
    when they cut the maximum engine size to 3.5 litre . As far as budgets
    go I guess you merc, pug ,jag's of the field will show better than you
    shupan's and you kermers or brun. The mere fact that they are
    manufactuer supported means that there is more money in the pot , also
    the development and production costs must be higher. More car for
    starters.  Whilst the sums of money may appear to be high I bet they
    are a fraction of the real cost of a top F1 team. And as I think
    Richard says F1 is NO comparison to WSC, F1 is pure speed, with
    sportscar as it used to be before it got screwed , speed was just 1
    element of a good car. So long as wsc is Seen to be F1 with full
    bodywork it will fall flat on its face.
    
    
    Slight change of subject, WHAT happended to the race on Eurosport
    yesterday. It was listed in autosport and in saturdays paper. Yeterday
    I turned the tv on expecting to see sportscars and there's golf
    (pheh!!!!). When I looked in the paper no mention of it. What's
    Happening???????????
    
    
    Garry

    For those who remember : in the late 50s and across the 60s the real
    attraction was the sports cars especially Le Mans. Reasons to that:
    
    F1 was not stable. 1500cc engines meant low power and low acceleration.
    It's only when they agreed on 3000cc that F1 really took off. F1 was
    confusing: some cars looked like F1s (single seaters with outboard
    wheels) while others looked like sports cars (covered wheels). Also the
    difference between F1 and F2s in terms of shape and performance was
    minor.
    
    At the same time the battles between the Aston-Martins, Ferraris,
    Jaguars, Fords was truly exciting. The cars were going fast. The
    drivers were famous. There were 2 sorts of races : the long distance
    ones (12h, 24h, etc) and the short runs. The endurance races (Le Mans,
    Sebring, Daytona, etc) attracted huge crowds, while the short runs were
    available almost everywhere across the world.
    
    As mentionned above: when F1 moved to 3000cc the interest grew very
    fast because of the performance of these cars (even if they would not
    even compete with todays F3000). At the same time the interest for high
    performance sports cars disappeared gradually for several reasons:
    
    - the big WAR (Ferrari-Ford or Europe vs USA) was over
    - Ferrari and Ford stopped racing
    - Porsche started winning everything (it was truly boring to see
      Porsches racing against Porsches after several years)
    - CSI and then FISA did not come up with any creative idea other than
      "let's reduce the cars performance" while the general public was
      looking for extraordinary monsters
    
    Interest shifted towards F1. F2 was popular too, surely because, like
    with F3000 today, one could see future stars at work; and also because 
    the - then - current F1 stars liked to compete (and for $$$).

    
    Interesting that someone mentioned the 3.5 (I thought it was 3) litre
    formula introduced in the early 70s to pull sportscars in line with F1.
    
    That failed miserably too! The only solution to the flagging state of 
    sportscar racing is to get more manufacturers interested (as the old
    fuel related formula did) and make the races more interesting. Ok,
    maybe you won't get the kind of crowd you would at a GP, but real
    sportscar racing fans will enjoy a 1000 km race a lot more than a nimno
    sprint race. The old fuel formula also had the advantage of being
    easily justifiable as producing a benefit for Mr Average-Motorist. What
    possible advantage can a free formula have? The old formula wasn't
    perfect, but we had 5 teams with cars capable of winning races (all
    from major manufacturers) and big fields. Nowadays it seems that
    the only manufacturers in Group C are using it as a stepping stone to 
    F1.
    
    Mark

    
    
    Jaguar, Peugeot and Mercedes will meet with Max Moseley next Monday
    to discuss the future of the World Sportscar Championship.
    
    'from Teletext'

    There is quite a bit about the state of wsc and what the teams are
    going to do, plus an interview with Tom Walkinshaw. The future does not
    sound good. Twr are testing the water by offering the xjr14 and 16 to
    customer.Tom says that a lot of noise has been made about customer cars
    so now he's seeing if it is all just hot air. As far as the
    chamopinship in 92 goes then from what I read it's all up to the
    meeting with max. If they come up with the right answers to boost the
    grids and make a championship worthy of being called a championship then
    I think you will see the big teams Jaguar, Merecedes and peugoet in the
    frame, fail to do that an the way I read it the thats bye bye sportscar
    racing as a serious championship. 
    
    Its a very uphill struggle for Max Mosley on this one with a
    championship at stake and a formula already in tatters.  The general
    feeling seems to be that if nothing constructive comes out of this
    meeting then the big noises are off. It would be a great shame to see
    that happen as there can be no doult in anyones mind why its in the
    state its in. It seems that only something very special will straighten
    the mess  out.
    
    
    Garry