Conference terri::cars_uk

 > 2) bans on unnecesary driving


Is having to commute 150 miles a day unnecessary ???

;-)

>>2) bans on unnecesary driving

fit dodgy clutch cables to all new cars



:-)

    
    How about a ban on WEEKDAY driving and forcing Digital to give us all
    terminals at home?
    
    Mark

Mark that thought had (almost) struck me.

I consider [in the context of a national emergency] my daily commute to work
to be unnecesary driving. I'd cheerfully forego it and keep my precious fuel
for visiting customers and going to the shops once a month.

Unfortunately my wife still needs to get to work so it probably won't help in
my case...

/. Ian .\

    
    Going back to how we'd cope with these, the speed limit would
    presumably be the easiest to comply with (average speed to Reading
    each day is about 25 mph!). Fuel rationing could be a bit tricky, 
    certainly for those who have to travel long distances (like Jane).
    
    Defining an unneccesary journey is totally impossible and unenforcable,
    so we needn't worry about that.
    
    As for a ban on weekend driving, I suspect that this would be the best
    way to loose support for a Gulf war amongst the general public.
    
    But anyway, John and George (pity Gorby's name isn't Ringo isn't it?)
    tell us a Gulf war would be over in days and we all know that they
    wouldn't lie to us don't we?
    
    Mark

    
>    Going back to how we'd cope with these, the speed limit would
>    presumably be the easiest to comply with (average speed to Reading
>    each day is about 25 mph!). 

I'd rather not....it takes me 2 hours + to get to the Solent as it is !!!

:-(

You wouldn't be saying that because you've just passed you bike test by any 
chance ?

  >       <<< Note 1338.7 by VANTEN::MITCHELLD "............<42`-`o>" >>>
  >                   -< Ban cars .... Go to work on Bikes >-
    
    Quite right, just think how fit we'd all be if we all CYCLED to
    work.
    
    However, would DEC be prepared to shorten my working day by 3 hours to
    allow for the extra time it'd take to get to and from work each day?
    
    Mark

>>   However, would DEC be prepared to shorten my working day by 3 hours to
>>   allow for the extra time it'd take to get to and from work each day?
  
And another hour to recover....plus all those extra showers :-)

Jc

    Dutch programme is ready at the Home ministery.
    
    Advise from government is order of impact:
    - Advise everyone to reduce speed to 100 km/h
    - Strongly recommend car pooling
    - Car - less sundays or even weekends
    - Fuel distributions system via coupons (X litre/coupon)
      We have had similar situation in 1973 when the first oil crisis
      was there.  At that time I had a Citroen 2CV, which did not consume
      a lot.  
    
    What preparation has been done in other EEC countries?
    
    Hans

>    What preparation has been done in other EEC countries?
    
As of this morning's news...nothing in Britain...

In the UK in 1973 petrol coupons were distributed but never put into use.

This was before the UK was self-sufficient in oil supplies.

jb

    New last night mentioned possibility of fuel-saving measures, which
    would be used if it appeared that the [several months worth of] fuel
    reserves were running low.
    
    First of these was a blanket speed limit of 50mph on motorways,
    possibly with a lower limit on lesser roads.
    
    The idea of fuel rationing, using coupons, has also been considered.
    
    
    Personally, I think that the government should ask for a 'voluntary'
    speed restriction to 50mph - rather than wait until petrol supplies
    are already low.  That way, it would not be illegal to drive at the
    existing speed limits, it would be a matter of the drivers' conscience.
    
    J.R.

�    re .13
� This was before the UK was self-sufficient in oil supplies.

    Alas, not true.  We export slightly more oil than we import, but ours
    is high grade "light" oil, useful for deriving aviation fuels etc. but
    not too good for petrol.

    Jonathan

Re: .14

Personally, I'd prefer fuel rationing....the lessening of speeds would come
as a matter of course as people find ways to make their ration go further.

�Personally, I'd prefer fuel rationing....the lessening of speeds would come
    
    How is a persons fuel ration calculated ?

    
    Oh yeah, rationing.
    
    As I recall that's the surest way to lead to a thriving black market!
    
    Mark (Who doesn't fancy paying 3 pounds a gallon!)

>>    Mark (Who doesn't fancy paying 3 pounds a gallon!)

If hostilities break out, I'd say �3 per gallon is highly likely,
and �5 not out of the question. It depends how many of the Saudi
oil installations the Iraqis take out.

Steve (who doesn't fancy paying it either)

>    Oh yeah, rationing.
>    
>    As I recall that's the surest way to lead to a thriving black market!
>    
>    Mark (Who doesn't fancy paying 3 pounds a gallon!)

That sounds cheap. With oil reckoned to be $60 a barrel the price is going
to be nearer �5. I'm willing to bet a tank of petrol on the outcome. Any 
takers?

As for who gets how much petrol, if and when we get rationing. Large engined
cars will get more coupons than small engine cars. This was the case in 1973. 

Dave

rat...


if oil does become really expensive will cars such as Ferraris become
dead cheap? (as happened at the last oil 'crisis')

...art

�As for who gets how much petrol, if and when we get rationing. Large engined
�cars will get more coupons than small engine cars. This was the case in 1973. 
    
    So, the trick will be to officially run a 'large' engined car, then
    drive a small engined car (with better economy).  That way, you can
    either do more driving, or sell any excess coupons...
    
    Is that how the black market works ?
    
    J.R.
    
    ps - I like the idea of decent cars getting cheaper, but don't like the
         fact that running them would be even _more_ expensive than now.

    I seem to recall that the coupons had the registration number on them,
    so you could only fill up the correct car.
    
    Doesn't stop you driving the big feller to the pumps, filling up, then
    syphoning the petrol into the little one.
    
    Steve

Re: .23

>    I seem to recall that the coupons had the registration number on them,
>    so you could only fill up the correct car.
    
That was the system in 1973.  The number you got was also increased if you 
could prove that you needed to use your car for business purposes.

>    Doesn't stop you driving the big feller to the pumps, filling up, then
>    syphoning the petrol into the little one.
    
That would no doubt be highly illegal.  It would have been in 1973 if 
rationing had been activated.

I tend to prefer to let the price rise until demand falls to equal the 
supply.

jb

    
    
    Was diesel going to be rationed in the '70s during the oil crisis? 
    
    I remember all the petrol rationing preparations. I think you
    needed a logbook + mot to claim coupons if memory serves.... or
    was it just a logbook?
    
    R.

    

    And what about foreign visitors needing petrol..... Both business and
    tourist.
    
    Laurie.

    Re .26
    
    Foreigners should take public transport or hitch-hike.
    
    Hans

    Quite right, Hans. There is only one thing worse than a foreigner, and
    that is a xenophobe.
    
    Steve :-)

   No need for petrol rationing, just raise the tax on patrol by
   between 300% to 1000%. I'm quite sure the demand would fall.

    
    What about the oil for my central heating !!

	Anyone want to buy a Ranger Rover?

Re .24
> I tend to prefer to let the price rise until demand falls to equal the 
> supply.

       ... i.e. only the rich and those who have company-paid-for fuel
       are able to use their cars.  It doesn't quite sound fair to me.

       Ian.

    On a similar line of thought as .26...

    What  happens to foreign cars in UK or  vise-versa???
    [ I have an English car and currently live Holland. ]
    
    If it came to it where would people like me get their
    petrol rations from????

    Sally (who-wasn't-worried-until-she-read-these-notes)

    RE .33
    
    My dear Sally, you seem to be a foreigner in Holland..........
    
    Re .28
    
    Steve, (Gottajob etc.)
    
    Gottajob outside DEC too.
    1st of March latest
    
    Hans

    According to this morning's Radio 4 news, the price of oil had it's
    largest ever swing overnight *DOWNWARDS*!
    
    North Sea Brent initially climbed from $29 to $33 a barrel - but on the 
    news of the success of the allied attack force, dropped to $25.
    
    Ian.

    My alarm radio turned Radio 4 on as this was being reported this
    morning.  For a few moments I had great difficulty in guessing waht
    could happen to have reduced oil prices so dramatically.  Had Iraq
    surrendered?  Tucked away in the following reports was the fact that
    Pres. Bush had released the oil reserve.  In view of the uncertainty of
    war reports (after the first few hours) I suspect that the oil reserve
    is the reason, not the early goal.
    
    I shall keep my tank full anyway.
    
    Rob 

Ration books were issued in the early 70's on production of a Road Tax License.

One way to get untaxed cars off the roads eh ?

:-)

After the Gulf war started, oil prices suffered their biggest ever one-day 
drop in prices, and most stock exchanges had a mini boom.

Just proves the world of high finance is beyond a simple north country
boy like me, I'spose.

Peter.

>After the Gulf war started, oil prices suffered their biggest ever one-day 
>drop in prices, and most stock exchanges had a mini boom.

That's because Bush released the Oil reserves onto the market....

The cause of the drop in oil prices is because people believe that due to
the initial success of the attacks on Iraq and occupied Kuwait, there is a
lower probability of disruption of supplies from the Gulf.  Remember that
the prices are for oil loaded onto tankers in February, the price had 
earlier (over the last couple of weeks) risen somewhat as the market
believed that there would be problems. 

The situation is very volatile, one setback in the conflict could have a
dramatic effect on the price.

jb

Oil price for Brent crude fell $4 overnight on the Tokyo market 
*before* Pres. Bush released oil reserves. On _that_ news, the
confidence was reinforced and the price fell further: at the
last count it was $5.75 down.

I read one report saying that the gasoline price per ton(ne) was
unchanged. This is apparently the main influencer of forecourt
prices.

Markets being what they are, I expect the price will yoyo for
some time.

Steve.

>Markets being what they are, I expect the price will yoyo for
>some time.

Well I have no doubt that, regardless of market prices, the price at the pumps 
in Britain, will rise sharply, rapidly, and keep on going... :-(

In the US, several oil companies said they would freeze the price of
gasoline to wholesalers. This in response to the condemnation they
got when prices went up by the hour in August. Of course now that the
market price has dropped you can bet the 'freeze' will not be lifed.

    Guess what, before the war started, the oil companies raised their
    prices enormously, but did not lower them yesterday, nor they will do
    it today!   Now it comes: They are complaining over the radio about the 
    fall of the market prices!!!!!   For me they are the biggest crooks
    on earth (except insurance companies maybe)
    
    Hans

    
    What? You missed Estate Agents surely?
    
    Mark

    
    And the Accountants, Solicitors... ;-)
    

	Used car salesmen, contractors...

    
    politicians, stockbrokers...
    
    Mark

    ... ratholers ...			:-)

Re: .44

The price of petrol is based on its own Spot Market price - not on the
price of crude oil.

jb

The price of petrol is based solely on what the unofficial cartel of oil
companies think they can get away with...

Scott

    reply .51
    
    Well said that man !
    
                          K.Raven
    P.S. Someone broke all the windows in my local Esso garage the other
    night .
    
    
    

    
    hang on ... according to my next door neighbour (retired stock broker)
    the big oil companies buy on the *futures* market. If they buy at $50
    and the price drops to $30 they are still required to pay $50 when the
    note comes due.
    
    That is why they complain when the price drops suddenly and massively -
    they take a huge loss.
    
    Only the little guys buy on the spot market and can get the best low
    prices...
    
    /. Ian .\

    
    > Only the little guys buy on the spot market and can get the best low
    > prices...
    
    Which is why you see these stories from time to time on the news about
    the one or two garage entrepreneur who drives his tankers to Rotterdam
    to fill up and sells petrol for 20p a gallon cheaper than the big boys!
    
    Mark

    re .53 FUTURES MARKET...
    
    Very true..
    
    The Futures market is kind of like an advance date market... 
    
    The 2 sides decide the price for 1/3/6 months in advance...
    
    Therefor todays price could have been made 6 months ago... of course
    this is all only relavent on paper... ;-)

When oil prices went up initially, the oil companies put up petrol prices to
compensate.  According to this "futures market" thing, they shouldn't have
done this as they'd already agreed to buy the oil at a lower price.  They got
a benefit then, buying at a lower price than "spot market buyers", so it's not
fair of them to complain now, and by their own arguments the price of petrol
should fall now, not when the big companies start buying oil at lower prices.

Scott

�When oil prices went up initially, the oil companies put up petrol prices to
�compensate.  According to this "futures market" thing, they shouldn't have
    
    But, when the 'current' price of oil increases, so will the 'expected'
    price on the futures market.  True, oil they are paying for now will be
    at the rate they 'gambled' on previously, but they are always going to
    be 'careful' in there future predictions.
    
    There is also the other consideration of thet fact that they are
    'companies', and must therefore conduct business in the interests
    of the shareholders.  I think that the earlier reply was correct,
    the companies will charge 'what the market will bear'.
    
    In my mind, this is another industry (such as insurance) which can
    charge what it likes, as the demand will always be there.
    (One hopes that the [oil] supply will be around too).
    
    J.R.

    The BBC lunchtime news reported that the major oil companies are to
    reduce the price of petrol by upto 9p a gallon from midnight tonight.
    
    The reasons given:
    
    1. The Gulf crisis has had no significant affect on the supply of crude
    oil to the West - tankers are queuing up to unload.
    
    2. The recession and a mild Winter have combined to make the demand for
    oil low.
    
    Ian.