Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    In Car CD-Players are very expensive compared to the home ones.
    
    Personally I can't believe that a Mazda (or most other cars for
    that matter) would be quiet enough to justify all that money on
    trying to achieve a pure sound (not to mention all the  clutter
    ruining any decent acoustics in any car).
    
    Still, if you want to spend 800 quid on an in car gadget I suppose
    there's not a lot of choice!
    
    Mark
    
    PS Why not true the Audio conference?

Get a radio/cassette with an auxialliary input jack and buy a portable "Discman"
type player that you can plug into the jack to play through the car speakers.

/. Ian .\

I've a Sony Discman CD player (ala walkman) and it works fine in the car. Its
designed to be carried around so doesn't seem to mine the bumps. I drive with
it on the parcel shelf with a gadget that feeds from the CD output into the
car cassette player (in the dummy casset is a write head that sits next to
the read head in the cassette player). It sounds OK to me... 

It only jumps if I do some fast vertical motion such as real hump-back bridges,
normal bumps don seem to be a problem.

Jc

(and it cost around $200 in the US two years ago - less than �700 by a long way!

2 and 3 collided ;-)

re.last
	I've done that using  Pioneer in-car radio/cassette, & plugged a 
SONY discman D-100 in using a jack, the result was quite good, very very few
skips on 200 mile long trips. 
	You can also get special casette shaped adapters to plug into the car
stereo if it hasn't a jack.

...Art. 

    >>ADAPTERS..
    
    You can also get brackets/adapters which will hold the portable CD player in
    any possition, near the stereo, by using the cigarette lighter socket
    as a secure base,
    
    good idea, although from some angles it can look like a triffid or
    something!

    
    OK, I'll admit it. I use a Clarion portable in the car, with no problems
    from skipping. It plays through the tape deck, which isn't ideal - I'd
    second the recommendation of a installing a tape deck with CD/Aux in
    socket. The other problem is the difficulty of changing the CD - it
    can't be done on the move.
    
    All in all, I like it but I'll sell it with the car and can't see myself
    replacing it with another portable.
    
    Bi||.

The discman is the way to go!  I've had no problems with mine during the years
that I've used it in the car.

    I don't mean to be negative about this but...
    
    Is a Clarion Multi-play CD player such a clever thing to install in
    your car?? I mean .. You're in the middle of London (Any city will do)
    and you realise you need to stop for a minute...so you park the car and
    nip into McDonalds (Any restaurant will do). Along comes your regular
    tea-leaf (who can get a radio out of a car in somewhere around 30
    seconds flat!!) sees this nice CD player and a golden opportunity!
    
    Right...so he's not only nicked your 800 quid unit, but another 100
    quid's worth of CD's !!!!
    
    Sounds a bit daft to me. If you must then I would go for the portable
    and just the one CD in it. Your insurance company will go through the
    roof otherwise!
    
    
    Just an opinion...
    
    Mark.

    
    
    
    	Re .9
    
    	The expensive CD players for 800 quid or so have only the selecter 
    	unit in the dashboard for volume/disk selection etc, The cd player
    	and disks are located in the boot ( locked ? ) along with the pre
    	amp etc. If a thief wants it they will get it but i will take a bit
    	longer than 30 seconds. One benifit of this is that it doesn't look
    	like you have a CD from the outside, but you do loose quite a lot
    	of boot space.
    
    	Garry
    
    
    
    	

    re.0
    
    I suggest you get a good radio cassette player and use your home
    HiFi to Record your CD's onto CHROME cassettes.  It is a lot cheaper
    than a ICE CD unit.
    
    Grant

	�800 ! - I can get a years supply of petrol for that.

	And I couldn't afford the disks to put in it anyway.

	Prefer the radio myself.

	-John

	Re: .1

	I own a mazda 323F 1.8i coupe and believe me it is quiet (quite fast)
	enough to justify a cd player. In fact in recent tests it has
        been proved that 8 out of 10 owners who expressed a preference......

	I got a portable CD player and tape connection ($200) in the US 
	which works very well. 

	It helps to place the CD player in an upright position 
	to reduce the number of skips from bumpy roads which we have 
	here in the West of Ireland.

	There is a knack in changing CD's while on the move.

	Sheoige

 begorrah! 

    Re. .11
    
    Isn't that illegal?

    RE-1
    
    NO
    
    If it was then no manufacture would sell blank tapes.
    
    Grant

Re: .15

It sort-of illegal to tranfer records from one medium to another.  It is
breach of copyright and the copyright holder can sue you for making the 
copies.

Re: .16

Blank tapes are sold for you to record sound from sources that you have the 
right to record from.  Unless you have some sort of arrangement with the 
copyright holder this does not include copying other recordings.

A similar situation is that while it is perfectly legal to manufacture and
sell radio transmitters, it is illegal to operate them without a licence. 

jb

    I had a demo of a multi-play in-car CD player in Motorlec, Reading
    the other day.          
                            
    It sounded very good, none of the treble nastiness that you would
    get from a portable CD player, especially if you used one of those
    electronic dummy tapes to feed it's output to your Cassette/amp
    (which will probably remove all bass below about 60hz and treble 
    above 12khz; about the range of a 'normal' cassette through a 
    CHEAP deck).
                               
    Unless you already have a collection of CD's which you wish to play
    in the car, I wouln't use a portable (which could probably be nicked in
    24 seconds).            
                            
    However if you do have such a collection, then the multi-play could
    be a sensible option.  Easier (no tapes to fumble with) and you
    can probably remove the control panel from you dash (and keep it
    in your handbag or whatever).  
    
    For your �800, it would expect some meaty back shelf speakers 
    (probably worth about �140), partnered with a beefy amp 
    for them (at least 30 watts total RMS, not for loudness 
    but just a full range low down in the scale, value around �80).
    Probably �40 worth of front door speakers to keep things placed.        
    The CD changer and controler/front amp/radio are probably costing 
    about �300, and the dealer charging �40 to run wires and cut a 
    bit of trim while putting the stuff in.

    Note:
    This assumes that your Mazda would not have any radio/cassette as
    standard.  If it does, then distribute it's value to my example
    figures.
    
    It would have to sound VERY good indeed, for me to want to spend
    that amount of money.
    
    You should remember that in-car CD is still a very specialist market,
    and is for those who cannot live with the quality of a very good
    in-car cassette deck.  It has not moved down for those who merely
    wish to listen to their CD's (for convenience) regardless of whether
    they sound better than some good tapes.

    It might be wise to have a listen to �300 worth of cassette/radio
    in order for you to decide if you really want CD or just good sound.
    
    Nice problem you have here though Rich, I'm jelous!
    
    Rob "Mazda dealership UK sales and marketing".

    I saw one of those "take your CD walkman output and bung it into
    your cassette deck via a dummy cassette" thingies in the latest
    Radio Shack Catalogue for about �16.........
    
    I still think that the car is about the worst place to want to
    listen to high quality music reproduction. Why are so many people
    hell bent on spemding enormous amounts of money on this gizmology
    when the return can be so small?
    
    Any answers out there?     

Whats a CD player got to do with high quality music reproduction??

Best to use a good pre-recorded tape, most of them are better than CD's anyway!

Mark.

    
    Pre-recorded tapes? Yuk!
    
    Mark

    >  Best to use a good pre-recorded tape, most of them are better than 
    >  CD's anyway!

 	AARGH - Sacriledge !
    
    
    BTW - heard an in-car CD player in a friends open-top TVR. Had to
    be heard to be believed !

Re. .21,.22

I maintain that a good pre-recorded tape is better than a CD. I must admit that
I don't use them much myself, as I make my own tapes for the car from vinyl
records which *DEFINITELY* sound better.

I heard an in-car CD player in a Renault 11-Turbo, wasn't too impressed when it
jumped.

Mark.

where does one buy a good (better than CD) pre-recorded tape then ???


...Art.

re .22 Had one in a loan TVR we had for a couple of weeks, it was so much better
then the radio/cassette player that was the alternative, both equilavent Alpine
systems, the advantage of the CD was that you could crank the volume up enough
to be heard at ridiculous speeds with the roof off, and still keep wonderful
clarity, as .22 said, had to be heard to be believed!

RE .17
I assume that the laws, in Britain, regarding copywrited material are similar to
those in the US. As I understand the US rules...If I purchase a copywrited 
material (such as music) I am allowed to make as many copies as I want FOR MY
OWN USE.  That is to say that I am not allowed to give away or lend out copies.

RE pre-recorded tapes.

Pre-recorded tapes are horrible.  They are made on low-quality 120� tape and are
high speed dubbed.  This high speed dubbing looses the *details* of the music.
These two factors put together spell poor clarity.


-Al

Your presumption is incorrect.

It used to be possible to purchase a licence for a small fee to produce such
domestic copies, but "they" (the performing rights society) discontinued them 
some years ago.

You now require explicit written permission from the copyright owner to make 
such copies, and in general such permission will not be given.

/. Ian .\

    Explicit Written permission,,
    
    Can you show me someone who wrote off to the performing rights group,
    the last time that they made a copy of Maddona's latest for their best
    friend?
    
    �����***ed if I can!
    
    Carl
      

RE: 28 
I have to agree with you there, I can't think of anyone who blinks an eye at
making a copy of a record.

RE: 27
Thats wild, unless I am wrong about the US rules too.  I would have thought that
the rules would be about the same.  It may be the case that you require written
permission in both the US and Britain - but how could they enforce the rules, 
unless you are selling bootlegged copies.  They would have to go to every home
in the respective countries to find the personal copies that people have.

-Al

Well, alright then, I don't really think that Cassettes are that much better
than CD's.

However, this clarity when you turn the volume up is probably because the
Radio Cassette unit isn't very good quality.

A good cassette unit is much more practical, and usually a lot less tinny than
CD players I have heard. (Hitachi in-car, Phillips & Technics home ones).

Cheers.

Mark.

      Does anyone know how easily CDs warp in the heat ? I heard some
    horror-stories about them warping in the heat inside parked cars.
    Sounds expensive !!

    re .20 .......
    
    Mark I meant to be less specific than my comment purported to be:
    delete derogatory comments about "CD" players and substitute a more
    general comment about anything that costs more than a decent radio
    that plays pre-recorded music in a car. I am of the opinion that the 
    bodies of this world that spend enormous amounts of money on ICE are 
    deluding themselves about the acoustic environment that they are 
    listening in. Most, in my experience, then try to overcome the 
    shortcomings with the overuse of excessive numbers of watts.
                                    
    
    It's only a personal opinion, but I think that ICE is in the same
    area as "Radion" ..... you know the stuff that we are told we have
    to buy to get rid of something we didn't know we had. 
    
    I heard the story the other day of the man in Newbury that had over
    �18,000 worth of ICE in his car. That man is definately short on
    the 'ol marbles. But then IMHO, so is anybody that spends more than
    I would which is about �200 on a decent radio/tape which will probably
    play about 10 tapes/year.
    
    Just a personal opinion .....

re .32		At last, a voice of reason!

    One of the biggest plusses I found when I got a CD player (NOT in car)
    was the ability to get to the track I wanted immediately. Try doing
    that with a cassette tape. Still... �800 for in car CD player sounds
    steep... I'd buy a walkman style CD, then you can carry it anywhere!
    
    Pete.

	Well I certainly wouldn't fork out �800 or so for an in-car CD
	system. Mind you I did spend about �400 on a radio/cassette system
	for my own car which some people might find excessive !

	I guess it's really down to whether you WANT to spend that kind of
	money. I know of a person who's just spent over �2000 for a pair
	speakers (NOT for his car !), which is double my self-imposed budget
	for my entire home hi-fi system. 
	
	As an aside, I really wonder about people who play their car radio/
	cassette/cd at such a level that it's quite audible 50 yards away they
	have their doors, windows and sun-roof closed. Not a good way to
	concentrate on driving never mind driving 'deaf'.

	Gordon

if you spend a lot of time in your car, then spending a lot of money on ICE
is justified 

i.e. you may spend more time in your car than at home (awake) per day
therefore it makes sense to spend extra in the car than on home hi-fi



...Art. (who NEVER uses the in car stereo)

    
    I can understand someone spending a couple of hundred pounds to get 
    goood quality equipment, particularly if you listen to the radio alot,
    reception quality can be important, but surely a car is not the ideal 
    'listening' space, and above a certain level, you would not be able
    to detect any further improvement. 
          
    Elaine

    re .33
    
    Thank you, Brian, I'll put the cheque in the post.

    re .36
    
    As I said my comments were a personal opinion. I also doubt whether
    that many people spend that much time in the car that they could
    justify the expenditure some people make on ICE.
    
    I was doing a job for Digital for three years in which I clocked
    up >60,000 miles/yr and that meant 5 hrs/day in a tin box. Even
    under those circumstanbces I would need putting into a straight
    jacket before I shelled out �800+ on ICE. I can find better things
    to do with that much money. In fact after about a year of that kind
    of time in the car even the tape player hardly got used and most
    of the time the radio wasn't on either.
    
    So the voice of reason and experience ..... ?          

    Re .36 (Part 2)
    
    IMHO, if you are spending that much time in the car, I would humbly
    suggest that you need to appraise the priorities in life : for sure
    you are spending too much time and money on moving body+pieces of
    metal around. Thera are better things to do with time than chase
    rainbows.... or money.....or unrealistic goals. No amount of ICE
    can replace lost time......
    
    Why can I say this?
    
    Going back to Part I, at the end of that period I was close to a
    divorce and a coronary at the same time. 
    
    Now that's a sobering experience .......

   These days, you don't get much car for �10,000 and most of the newer
   vehicles parked outside are moving towards the �15,000 bracket. 
   This is a lot of money. And judging by the number of GT's, Turbos,
   XRs etc extravagance seems to be the order of the day.
   As most of these cars leave the showroom their value drops by at least 
   the cost of a great sound system.

   Bearing this in mind, it seems strange that people who spend more
   than about �200 on ICE are considered to be wasting their money.
   For me, I'd rather have a good sound system in the car than most of
   the "additional cost" options such as metallic paint, or electric
   rear windows or whatever. 

   �800 of decent ICE will outlast any car and will definitely be worth
   transferring into the next.

    
    
     Re .41 	Exactly
    
     re others a few back.
    
     		What and how much you spend on ICE is presumably what
    you ( or the company ) can afford and are prepared to pay. Just because
    YOU wouldn't spend that much doesn't make it wrong or unjustafiable
    (sp) for those that do. I would like to have a CD in the car because I
    only buy CD's now, and it makes life much easier to have a system with
    10 CD's in the boot instead of having to change cassetes at 145 mph
    :-).
    
    Also with a good one you can save money on massages cos if you turn
    the knob to *LOUD* you can have on whilst you drive. :-)
    
    
     

    Music in your car ??  =  essential !
    
    Music has proven theraputic benefits. Try something nice and soothing
    after a hard days coding/support/management or whatever. Or if you
    feel run down stick something LOUD on.
    
    Rich.
    
    NB Certain tracks can have a dangerous effect on ones driving
    	eg:
    		Meatloaf - Bat out of Hell !

    I place a lot of value on ICE, and will definitely order something
    better in my next car. However, I consider RDS radio tuning to be much
    more useful than a CD player. I have about 99% records, 1% CD's, and a
    car CD player would only encourage me to waste money buying the
    horrible silvery things.
    
    Mark (Glad that he's only borrowed the CD player he's using!)

    
    	I must admit I have the most outrageous Sony CD system installed in
    my Spider, and it gets my vote any day. Since I installed it over a
    year ago I think I have only listened to two cassettes in the same
    unit...
    
    	One of the greatest benefits is that you do not have to mess about
    swapping cassettes which can be distracting and dangerous at times !
    Combined with the amp/speaker choice I made the CD demonstrates
    exceptional sound clarity and range, more so than a Dolby C cassette in
    the same unit could ever do...
    
    	Of course with the roof down, and 180W at your disposal it can also
    entertain a reasonable sized bus queue...:-)
    
    	Rat says it beats busking...!

    RE : .27
    
    It is perfectly legal to record onto 'personal' media any 
    copyrighted material you have purchased.
    
    When you buy copyrighted material, you 'buy' the right to
    record from it, the copyright for this item has been paid
    for!
    
    That is how people can make money from copyrighting. Take
    for example buying/selling a song. You don't sell the song
    you sell the copyright!

re .46 by BONNET::MARTIN 
    
�    	I must admit I have the most outrageous Sony CD system installed in
�    my Spider, and it gets my vote any day. 

   And mine....
    
�    	Of course with the roof down, and 180W at your disposal it can also
�    entertain a reasonable sized bus queue...:-)
    
Even if the car's in France and the bus queue is in England.

   R. 

    Well I've ordered a Mazda 323 with a clarion multi-change CD player.
    
    I've listened to a few Cds in other cars and have been impressed.
    
    Rich
    

    Just bought a CD cartridge for the car, and must say that it was
    definatley worth it !
    
    Lewis.

    
    Lewis,
    
    	Do you mean that the CD player is good, or that the CD player
    is worth as much as the car ?  :-)
    
    Nigel
    

    Nigel,
    
    Both !
    
    Lewis. 
    
    PS If you havent got a CD in the car come and listen and then you'll
    but one. It makes a world of difference.

.52�                                                         then you'll
.52�but one. It makes a world of difference.

    I'm sure it does, but I bet it hurts the head!

    Martin.

    
         Could someone please recommed a good place to get a C.D unit
          for the car I.E. Not crazy prices & a good make,around �350/450.
    
                        Thanks in 
                    advance  Cameron

    Check out the APLINE 1 disk range... they've come right down in price
    recently... you can call Conrads Car Radio and ask to speak to James.
    They have the whole Alpine range... a 6-disk changer system can be
    had for around �550-�600.
    
    If you mention my name you may get a discount (but i doubt he'll even
    remember me! ;-)).
    
    Although, please note that Kenwood are doing this deal, where you can
    get a tape player/controller and 6-disk system for �450... �400 if you
    give them your old radio. Can't really beat that. Contact Bromley Car
    Radios for details... sorry don't have the number.
    
    Their number for Conrads is 081-684-3163 and they're in Thornton Heath.
    
    
    					Lewis.

    
    Re.55
               Thanks i'll try giving them a call.
    
                 

    
    Naive question: can the Sony 12V -> 9V power adapter (the cigarette
    lighter type of adapter that the Sony Discman requires) be used in 
    US cars? I remember something about US cars using 24V...
    
    Thanks,
    
    -maarten.
    

    re .57
    
    All US cars I have come across are 12V. You may find 24V on some
    exceptional vehicles (just as you do over here).
    
    Andrew

    
    That's good news... Have I got it right that the cigarette 
    lighters are "cross-pond compatible"?
    
    Thanks,
    
    -maarten.
    

    re .59
    
    Yes.
    The same plugs fit both US and UK lighter sockets.
    
    Andrew