Conference terri::cars_uk

Most insurance companies give cheaper premiums for women than men.  They say
this is because statistically woman are better drivers*.

Is this sex discrimination, and hence illegal?

Why not split drivers into blue-eyed, brown-eyed, etc, groups, then give
cheaper premiums to whichever group drives the safest?

It may well be the case that women drive more safely, but the fact that
insurance companies chose to make this distinction is surely in breach of
the current law?

How about if they said Asian drivers aren't so good so we'll charge them more?
There would be uproar!

How about if I sued an insurance company for libel, as they are stating that
because of my sex I am not as good a driver?  (Note I don't really intend
trying to do this.  Well, not today anyway...)

What does the panel think?

Scott

* Translation: give rise to the least insurance pay-outs, which in the end is
all the insurance companies care about.

>Most insurance companies give cheaper premiums for women than men.  They say
>this is because statistically woman are better drivers*.


	Well, I agree.........   :-)


>Is this sex discrimination, and hence illegal?


	Isn't it only sex discrimination if it's not true, and the only 
	disriminatory factor is the sex.

	for example, if the statistics were the same, then offering women 
	cheaper insurance would be wrong.

	Another example of this is:

	If a male and female aged 63 had the same amount of money to
	buy a pension, the woman would get less per month than the man, as
	women, statistically, live longer than men.

	Heather

	Oh, and I have just had to claim on the insurance.

	I've never been involved in an accident.

	It just so happens my husband was driving the car - and the insurance
	is in my name!  (he was a named driver).

	Heather

I reckon that in men the extremes of driving style are more noticable. Men
tend to be more aggresive drivers which can manifest itself as positive 
driving or screaming psycopathism.

Women tend to be more boring, dithery and unexciting drivers. On balance,
they are slower and safer. 

These are generalisations. Insurance companies deal with generalities.

Dougie

    
    Women Drivers, I come across :
    
    i)   They distract your attention. 
    
    	You've stopped at the traffic lights and one siddles up on 
    	the nearside. A flutter of eye-lids and "come-change-my-oil"
        glint in the eyes and... TOO LATE -- The lights have turned 
    	Red again   8*(
    
    ii)  They distract your attention. 
    
    	You're booming along in the overtaking / fast / for big cars 
        only lane doing much more than 56mph, in your Fiesta 1100 GLX 
    	Special Edition, 8v, Thompsons Garage Portsmouth, with a Baby 
    	On Board sticker on the back ;-) when you SUDDENLY notice the 
    	Blonde on the hard shoulder. SCREEEEEECH. TOO LATE -- The guy 
    	in front of you noticed her too !  8*(
    
    iii) They distract your attention.
    
    	You're sitting in the passenger seat and there's no arm rest !
    	8-)
    

>Women tend to be more boring, dithery and unexciting drivers. On balance,
>they are slower and safer. 



	Well, I've never been called this before, is it a complement?


	Heather

	Men Drivers, I come across :
    
    i)   They are easily distracted.  
    
    a)  You've stopped at the traffic lights and one siddles up on 
    	the nearside. A green glint of the eye, whilst they contemplate
	what is under the bonnet of the open-top two-seater. They become 
	completely mesmarized by the soft tones of my engine, and miss the 
	lights changing.

	I, in the meantime, have pulled away, and am in the stream of traffic
	ahead.
    
    b)  You're going along the motorway at 55MPH in the landrover. The pass
	you, and notice in the rearview-mirror that a woman is driving it.

	They slow down, and I have to pull out to overtake, or go up their
	backside............one day I'll just keep going !   :-)

    ii)  They distract your attention. 
    
	(I've written this somewhere before in here)

	You are going around the roundabout at the end of DECpark, and
	they pull out in front of you, trying to cut you up, with
	two fingers stuck out at you.

	You have to break to avoid hitting tham, and you shout, if you keep
	them out there, I'll break them off and stick them up your nose.

	They then stall, and you drift easily past.


	Ah, that's better,         Heather       :-)

>And of course you arent allowed a passenger so that will stop you nattering
>as you drive.


	Do you really think that not having a passenger is going to curtail
	my nattering.


	I don't know, men don't know anything!


	Heather

< .25

>Women tend to be more boring, dithery and unexciting drivers. On balance,
>they are slower and safer. 



	Well, I've never been called this before, is it a complement?


	Heather


A bit of selective cutting and pasting there Heather, methinks. I didn't call
you boring, dithery and unexciting. I'm not into sweeping generalisations
and absolutes. In fact, I'd go as far as saying I NEVER deal in 
absolutes.

Dougie

>A bit of selective cutting and pasting there Heather, methinks. I didn't call
>you boring, dithery and unexciting.


	Aha, gotcha,.........so I'm rousing,conclusive and similating..



	Heather


	:-)

Something like that! what are you similating by the way?

Dougie

    
    
    >>>	Aha, gotcha,.........so I'm rousing,conclusive and similating..
    
    
    ... and just _what_ are you "similating", Heather ?
    
    .....and here I thought you were the Real Thing !!!!
    
    
    Ian
    ;-)

	I'm similating being a dumb blond who drives a landy with a handbrake
	on, ignoring all the signs that shout out there's a problem.


	This , of course, was a planned experiment.    


	I shall now return to being stimulating.



	Heather

	Insurance companies are in business to make money, they judge 
	risk, and, if they didn't get it right, they would go bust.
	So, looking at the claims statistics, they judge women drivers less 
	risky than men.  Does this mean that women are safer drivers than men?
	Well, here we juggle criteria such as accidents per thousands of miles
	driven.  My opinion, for what it is worth, is that women are, in
	general safer.  If I see an act of particular stupidity such as
	someone driving up my chuff box or speeding in town it is invariably
	a man.  On the other hand, I've only once seen someone combing their
	hair in the outside lane of the motorway and that was a woman.  So 
	what's wrong with that I hear you cry?  She was using *both* hands! 

	Dave

    
    Women don't seem to need to let you know they're so important they've
    got a car phone in their car, either! The number of men I see
    travelling fast in heavy traffic with one hand on the car phone and the
    other somewhere only they know! Why don't they have a hands free phone?
    
    Obvious isn't it? If they did that we couldn't see how important they
    were!
    
    Mark
    

RE: .-1;

I just sing a lot in the car to make people think I've got a car phone!

;-)

Mark.

Re .35.

I saw a man combing his hair on the motorway last week.  He was using both
hands, straddling the centre and right hand lanes, at about 65mph...

Scott

	Things to avoid:


	Drivers who wear trilbys

	Drivers who wear caps

	Drivers with blue rinses

	Drivers with Baby-on-board stickers

	Anyone doing under 30 MPH, and over 100MPH
	
	
	Heather

	Steady on Heather, I've been known to wear a cap!  A flat cap keeps
	the sun out of my eyes!  My clip on sunglasses flap above 80...

	Dave

    
    
    I say, just a mo, Heather....
    
    those of us with the,  err, wide parting, sometimes _have_ to wear
    something to prevent sunburn on the top of the head......
    sporty baseball caps seem to be favourite, these days.
    
    'course, if you want to be _reeeely_ trendy, you can always wear them
    backwards......
    
    Ian

    
    No, no Ian, you're behind the times!
    
    They're worn sideways (a la Bash Street Kids?) NOW!
    
    Mark

	Well, you could always blue-rise the scalp - less reflection then..




	Heather



	PS,    there's no smoke without fire

           <<< Note 173.39 by BIGHUN::THOMAS "The Devon Dumpling" >>>


	Things to avoid:

	Anyone doing under 30 MPH, and over 100MPH
	
What?! At the same time? 	

	Heather

Dougie

    
    
    Oh, no, Heather, I never smoke while I'm driving.
    
    
    ... and it's not the reflection tha's the problem... it's the
    absorbtion.....
    
    
    Ian

    
    
>    Oh, no, Heather, I never smoke while I'm driving.
 

	Pah!             :-)   
    
>    ... and it's not the reflection tha's the problem... it's the
>    absorbtion.....
 
	well, at least it's not you coming their hair.........



	30 and 100....................well they looked confused anyway.


	Heather

	Ops,     comBing


	sorry

    
    I noticed an article in the Daily Mail (which prides itself on being
    a "Woman's" paper) a couple of days ago which stated that women drivers
    are more easily distracted and less able (as a generalisation) to cope
    with spatial manouevering (whatever that is!).
    
    This was the result of scientific studies carried out on volunteers at 
    a University in this country (so it wasn't the usual crackpot US
    report!).
    
    The article finished by stating that while women were more likely to
    have an accident they were less likely to have a serious accident then
    men, who are supposedly more aggresive.
    
    None of this suprised me in the slightest (although my wife does take 
    on the persona of Ayrton Senna once behind the wheel!), but it was the
    first time I'd actually seen it in print as opposed to the usual "Women
    are better drivers, coz their insurance is cheaper", it makes more
    sense to charge women less for insurance if their accidents are likely
    to be less costly (although personally I think it's almost as unfair as
    allowing women to retire 5 years earlier than men!).
    
    Mark

    Statistically women probably do have less accidents than men, however...
    
    [disclaimer - these are all generalisations]
    
    1. There are fewer of them on the roads than men.
    2. The average woman drives considerably less miles pa. than the
       average man.
    3. When they do drive, they drive more slowly, and less assertively.
    
    From personal experience, I'd say the following, another
    generalisation:
    
    Most women drivers I have known lack the inclination, concentration and
    talent to ever become 'good drivers'. Where these three facets exist,
    women displaying them have them to all in abundance, and make superb
    drivers. Men on average, have lots of the first, less of the second,
    and even less of the last. Most importantly, women are much more aware
    of their personal limitations with driving, mainly because they lack
    the inclination to take driving as a serious pleasure. Many men with a
    high inclination factor make up for a lack of talent by behaving like a
    Capri driver from Basildon.
    
    However, that said, it's becoming difficult to generalise because the
    standard of driving is falling so fast, even good drivers are being
    caught out by the plonkers. The standard of motorway driving in this
    country is bloody appalling, the lack of common courtesy on town roads
    is worrying. The sheer lack of physical car-control many drivers
    display is frightening. Something really should be done to tighten the
    test up.
    
    Laurie.

�                    -< To most women, driving is a *chore* >-
    
    To back this up, when you see a 'couple' in a car, who do you see
    driving - more often than not - the male ?
    
    This probably goes in with your statement of 'inclination', in that
    more men 'prefer' do drive and more women 'prefer not to'.
    
    True, all these statements are generalisations, but I think it shows
    the 'norm'.  There will always be exceptions, even in large numbers.
    
    FWIW I would describe my partner is quite a good driver, but when we
         both go out in the same car, she requests that I drive as she
         doesn't particularly enjoy it.
    
    J.R.

    
    Re .51
    
    Maybe the reason you see mostly men driving couples around is that men
    like to drive and don't make good passengers (certainly true of me!).
    
    My wife likes to drive (especially my cars) and if we are out together
    she drives almost as often as I (certainly as often as I let her!).
    
    Mark

    I'd like to think that I fit into Laurie's category of a 'good' woman
    driver ... certainly my hubby says my driving is 'as good' and probably
    'safer' than his .... I like driving and certainly enjoyed blatting
    about in the Rx7 with the top down when I was able to prise it away
    from Peter !!
    
    Having said all that, when driving home in the wet/dark/mist etc given
    the choice I _always_ let Peter drive cos to me that is not fun -
    that's a real chore and if I can get out of chores ... :-)
    
    Generally I would agree with Laurie that woman probably have fewer
    accidents cos there are less of them doing less miles - the rest of the
    women in my family are pretty appalling drivers - but then they don't
    like driving at all and only drive when they have to ... I s'pose it's
    like most things  - you get good at what you enjoy ... more men seem to
    'enjoy' driving.
    
    Just my humble thoughts
    
    Jane

    
    re men always driving the couples around (except on the way home from
    the pub, or a night out, of course... :^) 
    
    It's probably also to do with the fact that it easier to be driven
    around than having someone say "you can go faster than that" or "I'm
    fed up looking at the boot of the car in front" or "you could have
    overtaken then"...... 
    
    It's also more likely that when the couple go out they take the 'main'
    car - ie bigger and faster, which the man probably ususally drives, and
    is therefor more familiar with.
    
    Another factor is that women (well, if we are going in for
    generalisations, might as well continue...) are often more considerate
    to their passengers, ie, don't do their best to throw them out of the
    window on bends, so not many people actually see them driving fast and
    'agressively'. I know I drive a lot faster when I'm on my own, and tend
    to enjoy it more.

    � It's probably also to do with the fact that it easier to be driven
    � around than having someone say "you can go faster than that" or "I'm
    � fed up looking at the boot of the car in front" or "you could have
    � overtaken then"...... 
    
    It certainly is, but I'm damned if I'll let Mandy do all the driving!
    :^)
    
    Mark
    

    Re.49
    
    Laurie,
    
    If you're worried about Brit standards of driving, better get a tank
    for this place!
    
    Must admit though, it's much easier to move along the motorways here
    than England ( at least they get out of your way here!).
    
    Colin

> (although personally I think it's almost as unfair as
>    allowing women to retire 5 years earlier than men!).
 

	Well, this is almost dissapearing today - it is not the case if you
	work for Digital, or if you work for the health service, or if you
	take out your own pension.

	Aren't you lucky!

	Heather

    
>    [disclaimer - these are all generalisations]
 
	Laurie................I suppose this means it's untrue........
   
>    1. There are fewer of them on the roads than men.

	I beg to differ - I go past a school on my way to work, I see many cars,
	but seldom see a man driving.

>    2. The average woman drives considerably less miles pa. than the
>       average man.
 
	Well, some of us can afford chauffeurs.

>   3. When they do drive, they drive more slowly, and less assertively.
 
	Aha, well, I would say less agressively, but not the rest.

>   Many men with a
>    high inclination factor make up for a lack of talent by behaving like a
>    Capri driver from Basildon.

	did you use to live in Basildon laurie    :-) 
   
>   Something really should be done to tighten the test up.
    
    Here here

	Heather

>    Maybe the reason you see mostly men driving couples around is that men
>    like to drive and don't make good passengers (certainly true of me!).
 

	I certainly agree with the lousy pasenger bit, and they're also lousy 
	map readers - whats a passenger for if not to read the map!

	If we go anywhere, I always drive the first strech, and Dave drives the
	second - so I can map-read him around unfamiliar territory.

	Heather

>>    1. There are fewer of them on the roads than men.
>
>	I beg to differ - I go past a school on my way to work, I see many cars,
>	but seldom see a man driving.

Beg away. I'm afraid it's true. Although I can't remember what the proportions
were in The Road Survey progrom under the section entitled "How many male
drivers Big H sees on her way to work (late)"

>>           <<< Note 173.60 by SUBURB::THOMASH "The Devon Dumpling" >>>


>>	I certainly agree with the lousy pasenger bit, and they're also lousy 
>>	map readers - whats a passenger for if not to read the map!
    
    I refute that, I'm a superb map reader, and I have intuitive direction
    ability!.
    
    Richard

    >>    1. There are fewer of them on the roads than men.
    >
    >	I beg to differ - I go past a school on my way to work, I see many cars,
    >	but seldom see a man driving.
    
    If today's kids and their mothers were less soft, and the kids discovered
    what their legs were for and could manage to walk a mile to school like
    wot I had to do, then we'd halve the term-time traffic in towns in the
    morning and solve the traffic jams at a stroke.
    
    So there.
    Jeff.

	Parents take their kids to school for a couple of reasons.  The first
	is that they have transport available.  When I was a nipper I very
	rarely got a lift to work in my dad's sidecar (on a BSA 650 Gold
	Flash).  The second is safety.  The roads are busier and so parents
	worry more - this is ironic, 'cos most of the traffic around schools
	is parents dropping off kids.  The current accident statistics say
	that the rate of accidents involving school kids is dropping - not 
	because the roads are safer, kids are staying off the roads.

	Dave

    
    Not to mention the perverts luring kids away...
    
    Mark

    
    
    
    	People dont take thier kids to school in the car to save the
    	poor kiddies having to walk, they take them to show all the over
    	parents how much money they have spent on the new Volvo or BMW.
    
    	People shouldn't have kids if they dont live close enough to a
    	school so that the kids can walk there, a bit like not letting people
        buy cars in Japan unless they have somewhere to park off the main 
    	highway.
    

>>                      <<< Note 173.66 by UFHIS::GVIPOND >>>
    
>>    	People shouldn't have kids if they dont live close enough to a
>>    	school so that the kids can walk there, a bit like not letting people
>>        buy cars in Japan unless they have somewhere to park off the main 
>>    	highway.
    
    I've got somewhere to park my car off the road, but why on earth 
    would I want to buy a car in Japan?. :-)
        
    If your going to legislate about kids like that then, conversely local
    authorities should be forced to build a school near you if you have a
    child!.
    
    Now, what was this all about?, oh yeah, well my kids walk to school,
    even though I drive straight past it on my way to work (and yes they do
    leave at the same time as me).
    
    Richard

�    	People shouldn't have kids if they dont live close enough to a
�    	school so that the kids can walk there, 
    
    Trying to develop another rat-hole ?
    
    Personally, I am annoyed at the increased traffic due to parents
    (yes, nearly always the Mothers) taking their kids to school
    BUT, when my daughter is old enough, I will prefer to know that
    she has made it to school each day.  The earlier reply which mentioned
    the 'dirty old man' problem is THE MAJOR CONSIDERATION !
    
    J.R.

    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Firstly I deleted .69 because .68 had got in before me and i wanted to
    reply to that. what was .69 is attached at the bottom.
    
        
�    Trying to develop another rat-hole ?
    
    
    I'll leave that up to you. my note was accompanied by a large smile,
    it was meant as a bit of light hearted relief. If you are not going to
    take note of the full contents of a note before you reply then dont
    bother repling at all.
    
    
�    
�    Personally, I am annoyed at the increased traffic due to parents
�    (yes, nearly always the Mothers) taking their kids to school
    
     Why are you annoyed ? does it prevent you from speeding past schools
    and therefore lessen your driving enjoyment., or is the school you
    drive past on a boat ? why should other mothers not take thier kids to 
    school but you can ?
    
�               <<< Note 173.68 by CRATE::RUTTER "Rut The Nut" >>>
    
    Says it all really.
    
    
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    	.69
    
    	� If your going to legislate about kids like that .. authorities
    	  should build schools near the kids.
    
    	Dont be silly, if the authorites were to do that you would have to
    	inform them when your wife etc was pregnant and they still wouldn't
    	have finished the kindergarten when your sprog had left university.
    
    	Another smile just to be sure. :-)
    

    > �    
    > �    Personally, I am annoyed at the increased traffic due to parents
    > �    (yes, nearly always the Mothers) taking their kids to school
    >
    > Why are you annoyed ? does it prevent you from speeding past schools
    > and therefore lessen your driving enjoyment., or is the school you
    > drive past on a boat ? why should other mothers not take thier kids to 
    > school but you can ?
    
    I know your reply is directed at another noter, but I am also
    inconvenienced (and often annoyed) by the school-run traffic.  I have
    to drive past a school near my home (I have no inclination to speed
    past it, nor I would guess has the other noter), and you wouldn't
    believe the jungle of momentarily parked cars I have to negotiate, as
    well as traffic coming the other way on a road that is far from wide.
    The general traffic in Newbury where I live is noticeably heavier
    during term time, with far longer jams in the morning.
    
    As for the comments about the problem with child molesters - I agree
    that is more of a problem these days.  So I'm all in favour of the
    parent walking to school with the child if they can't go in groups.
    But why take the car?  Laziness?
    
    Before the obvious comeback, I will walk in preference to driving
    anytime, but Newbury to Reading is a little too far.
    
    Jeff.

    
�    parent walking to school with the child if they can't go in groups.
�    But why take the car?  Laziness?
    
    I dont think people are lazy, one thing I have noticed recently is
    that more and more people are cycling, surely not a sign of laziness.
    I think you answered your own question really, you live in Newbury but
    work in Reading, do you have kids ? where is thier school located ?
    when I was at school I lived 10 yards from my primary school, 1 mile
    from junior high and about 2/3 miles from high school, The catchment
    areas for each school was organised in such a way that noone ever
    really had to walk far (In those days before the car was invented they
    thought about these things :-) ) Now its not unusual for kids to have
    to go a long way to junior school, especially in purpose built areas
    such as the housing estates around Reading/Basingstoke.
    Anyone live in Lower Earley how far is the nearest schools for each age
    ?
    
    

    
    Isn't this in danger of becoming a political discussion?
    
    I mean, I might not want my children to go to the most local school?
    Maggie says I have a choice and I'll damned well exercise it! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    Apart from showing off the new Volvos, Jags, Range Rovers and other 
    assorted toys and celluar phones, the people who drive their kids to 
    school have somehow got the strange notion that its safer for the kids.  

    What a load of codswalop.
    
    How people reversing cars blind, stopping without warning, pulling
    out into traffic without looking, doing u-turns, failing to signal,
    and generally reducing vision can be considered as anything other 
    than profoundly unsafe just illustrates their complete lack of
    imagination. 

    Maybe, if you're lucky and young Johnnie does get dropped off by the
    school gates... but what about all the other children who don't come 
    by car and have to avoid all the idiots.
    
    Pah...
    

    Before everyone starts hitting everyone else in the parts that will
    ensure that there are no new children starting school in six years
    time, here is a true story from our village near Valbonne. (I know it's
    not UK but it's going in anyway).
    
    The road outside the local infant/junior school is one way but can be
    accessed by driving past the no-entry signs and going against the
    traffic for about 100 yards. It is just wide enough for 2 cars to
    pass.
    
    As summer approaches the number of tourists coming down the right
    (tourist) way just about equals the number of parents going up the
    wrong (local) way. As the parents abandon their cars to go and get the
    kids (infants must be collected inside the school), chaos reigns.
    
    The local policeman is on duty each day outside the school and uses
    this as a good opportunity to keep up with local gossip. One day, one
    of the few parents who approaches the school from the official
    direction got so fed up with the mess that she rushed up to him ann
    screamed 'look at this.....why don't you do something about it'.
    
    His reply was perect, ' I am doing something about it.....I'm watching
    it'
    
    Peter  

    
�    True, there was a 'smile' (how do you make it large ?), but the two
�    paragraphs in your reply were in a different vein.  Going by the
�    attitude of recent replies, your second paragraph was not necessarily
�    intended to be taken as humour.
 
    No they were not, both paragraphs were in the same vein hence the
    smile for the title rather than just after one line. This was my first
    reply to this or any other topic for quite sometime, just because you
    or others have been argueing in this conference dont assume others
    enter notes for that purpose, the first reply to my note seemed to
    realise I was not serious and responded accordingly. Replies like yours
    will only persuade others not to enter replies and restrict what is
    otherwise an interesting notesfile. there is no smile with this note, 
    mainly because I find your attitude boring and objectionable.
    
    Garry.  
                                                                 
     

    trying hard to salvage a non-contentious thread here.......
    
    It's "Let's have a go at the local authorities" (of whatever sex) time!
    
    
    Where I live, there's a convenient "rat-run", avoiding a particular
    bottleneck by slipping down a back-street, turn right about  100 yards
    before you get to the school, then rejoin the main road.
    
    "I've got a jolly wheeze", said some prat in the "highways depratment
    for the county (they live in a differnt town, by the way), "let's make
    part of the route one-way, so they can't turn right before the school"
    
    Fine.  So, now, all the impatient b*ggers who use this trick can't turn
    right there, so they carry on _past_ the school, in a bad temper 'cos
    they can't turn right and then take the next right
    and double-back to where they were before.
    
    Add to this a new ruling from the education dept that says children may
    not arrive at school more then ten minutes before the start of classes,
    and you have a recipe for total carnage.     A hectic melee of cars
    dropping off kids all at the same time, right in the path of impatient
    and frustrated rat-runners......Grrrrrr !
    
    Sometimes, one wonders if road planners (HA!) actually know how to
    spell "car" !!!!!
    
    Ian

>>   <<< Note 173.78 by SWEEP::PREECE "Who do psycho-analysts complain to ?" >>>
>>                         -< I wish to complain...... >-
>>    Add to this a new ruling from the education dept that says children may
>>    not arrive at school more then ten minutes before the start of classes,
>>    and you have a recipe for total carnage.     
    
    
    WHAT!!! I'd play merry hell about this if our local authority tried to
    do it. Does this mean they lock the gates?, and leave dozens of kids
    hanging around the streets waiting for them to open and being prey to
    the raincoat brigade?. 
    
    We all leave the house at around 8:00 am. My wife and I go in opposite
    directions to work, the kids pick up friends and wander over to school,
    getting there about quarter/twenty past. The school begins around ten
    to nine. If I couldn't be sure they could go in the playground and be
    same I'd be VERY worried.
    
    Richard

 >>> WHAT!!! I'd play merry hell about this if our local authority tried to
 >>> do it. Does this mean they lock the gates?, and leave dozens of kids
 >>>hanging around the streets waiting for them to open and being prey to
 >>>the raincoat brigade?. 
   
Ratholing just a smidgeon here, but no, they don't lock the gates, (what gates?)
the kids are allowed in the playground, but there's no teachers present until 
8.30.   ... and we ARE kicking up merry hell about it !


Ian

	Well, one day, either me, or someone coming the otherway, are not going
	to be able to avoid the cars that suddenly swreve and pull in, or swerve
	and pull out, or double park, or open their doors on the road-side.

	It also means that the lollypop lady is quite a long way from the school
 	- to avoid the children having to put up with the hasstle and confusion.
	So, many children don't cross where the lollypop lady is!

	We have had two nasty accidents involving children in the last 3 months,
	and I'm just surprised it's so few.

	Maybe a "park and survive" course should be mandatory for any adult
	who wishes to stop outside the school to drop the kids off.

	Heather

    
�               <<< Note 173.77 by CRATE::RUTTER "Rut The Nut" >>>
�                               -< Bitch, bitch >-
    
    A subject suitable for humour Hmmmmmm
    
    
    There I was speeding along this country road when I came upon a bend,
    just before the bend was a sign saying 'School Crossing ahead'
    Driving towards me was a women in a Volvo, she was flashing her lights
    and blowing her horn at me, as she approached she leant out of the
    window and shouted "PIG PIG", so I shouted back "BITCH BITCH.....".
    I speeded up again and drove around the bend where ...
    
    The road was full of children crossing the road, 
    
    luckily I had ABS brakes so I managed to avoid them all.
    
    What a pleasant little story that was.
    
    

    
�               <<< Note 173.83 by CRATE::RUTTER "Rut The Nut" >>>
�                                 -< Puzzling >-
    
    
    Wouldn't have been if you had a brain.
    

�    Wouldn't have been if you had a brain.
    
    should'nt that be if you *HADNT* a brain ?
    
    Nobody else here seems to understand either.
    
    
    Shaun.

    
    
    Surely you can recognize when someone is taking the pi$$.
    

re.86:

You just can't get staff nowadays can yer?

/Dave.

     
 �                  -< IF wit was sh$$ you'd be constipated >-
    
  	

    I agree - as before let's keep it reasonably polite and civilised.
    
    You wanna take pots shots at one another then do it via mail please.
    
    Rich
    

    Well, I'm still puzzled by the pig reference.  Anyone understand it?

    That's my first and last entry in this topic!
    
    Ian.

>>                    <<< Note 173.94 by NEARLY::GOODENOUGH >>>

>>    Well, I'm still puzzled by the pig reference.  Anyone understand it?

    Old joke:
    
    Man driving along aproaches car who's driver leans out and shouts
    "PIG!". Man turns head, shouts back "same to you", turns back in time to
    drive into pig crossing the road.
    
    Laugh NOW.
    
    Richard

    At the risk of re-awakening a corpse, I read about one woman driver who
    was dangerous in a way not possible for a man :-
    
    She was driving along a (fairly crowded) motorway in rush hour, at
    about 60 mph.  Baby in back cries.  Woman WITHOUT STOPPING turns round,
    unstraps baby from baby-seat, and procedes to breast-feed.
    
    
    Comments, anyone?
    
    	Ian Gordon

    
    From what I remember reading, breast feeding is best. :-)

    Certainly less dangerous than warming a bottle, dripping on elbow and
    bottle feeding, then winding over shoulder. I think this should be
    encouraged.
    
    Andrew
    

    Seen this morning heading southbound on the M11
    Woman in a Land Rover Discovery at 80 MPH with  
    curling tongs in one hand steering in the other looking
    in the rear view mirror to make sure all her curls
    were even for that important morning meeting!!!!!!@#
    
    Cheers
    
    Mark 

    I saw a guy recently on the M4 exit 11 roundabout with his phone tucked
    between shoulder and ear (somewhat limiting his ability to look round -
    because he shot onto the r'bout in front of me) and SHAVING too.