Conference terri::cars_uk

Yesterday I made what will probably turn out to be a costly mistake, I went 
out for a test drive in a 350i, needless to say I now would like one.

The beast in question was 1986 C reg. 29K miles seemed in V. good condition.
The garage, in Fernhurst, were asking #14750 for it.

Do any owners/devotees have any comments on the price or cost of similar from
a private vendor?

Any guidance on recommended insurers would also be welcome.

Nigel.

PS any comments on generic problems and things to look out for with used models
would also be welcome.

    Anyone heard anything about the forthcoming Griffith. I've seen a few
    mag articles about it and the conclusion is that it looks *nice* and
    goes PDQ.
    
    However, pragmatist that I am, I'd like to know a bit more about the
    build quality and depreciation of TVR cars. Have they got any better
    over the last few years??
    
    Does anyone know the nearest dealer to Cambridge??
    
    Thanks, Paul. 

If you want that sort of car, buy a Marcos instead...

Scott

    
    I didn't prompt him, honest!
    
    Mark
    
    PS Quality of build is better, but still not great. Fibreglass is often
    rippled (I've never seen a Sn with a smooth bonnet) and the paintwork
    is often not as good as it could be, but then again the Griffith does
    sound like a very nice car, and I wouldn't turn one down. :^)

    There was an interesting article in one of the Classic mags a while
    ago doing a comparison of a 60's TVR and Marcos.

    Not a lot in it really, but the reviewer would have kept the Marcos
    given the chance ... just his personal preference.

    Personally, I prefered the look of the TVR and the spec of the Marcos ...

  Mark

	I saw one at the motor show and it looked very nice.  It was very
	well finished in a lovely deep blue.  From where I was stood, the GRP
	was ripple free and well finished.  Much better than the somewhat 
	ropey finish of the Ginettas.

	Dave

Re. TVR dealer near Cambridge, I recently discovered a pretty good one at a
place called Needham Market which is on the A45 between Bury St Edmunds and
Ipswich. Follow the A45 towards Ipswich coming off at the Needham Mrket juction,
head for the town centre and it's on the LHS disguised as a BL dealer, the TVR
showroom is over the road. Their prices seemed pretty reasonable. While I was
there the salesman said that the new model is due Jan. 1991 with a price of
about #22K I think, wasn't paying much attention!

Nigel.

    
    Re TVRs VS Marcos.
    
    Back in the 60's the TVRs were generally lagging behind the Marcos' in
    terms of power (The obvious exceptions being the much sought after
    V8s, with Cobra-like performance).
    
    Nowadays both make produce cars with Porsche and Ferrari squashing
    acceleration for a fraction of the price (Of course, if you fancy a
    Porsche you probably wouldn't dream of buying a nasty kitcar anyway)
    and the quality of both is now very good (as I said TVR fibreglass 
    quality is still not brilliant, on the lesser models anyway).
    
    Having sat in a number of TVRs (Sadly I've not driven one), I would
    suspect that a TVR would make much better day-to-day transport with 
    a much higher driving position and a dumpier shape making judging the
    corners a lot better. Presumably the TVR's higher ground clearance 
    makes for less nerve-wracking driving on bumpy roads, a problem which
    even the newest Marcos' suffer from.
    
    The Marcos is a much more charismatic vehicle (most road tests tend to
    end up favouring the Marcos for undefinable reasons, so I feel this 
    bears out my biased opinion) having that outrageous (but very
    comfortable) layed back driving position and the tremendously posy
    adjustable pedals. The handling is reported to be better (although 
    TVRs are excellent too) and you do get that 'What is it?' factor, even
    with people who consider themselves knowledgable about cars.
    
    The ideal of course is to have one of each. I'd have a Marcos
    Mantula Spyder given the choice, but I could easily understand why
    someone would choose a TVR instead (for instance they do have a 
    dealer network - Although whether that's good news or not may be 
    judged by this note! :^)), and I suspect most people would feel 
    more at home driving a TVR within a few miles than they would a Marcos.
    
    Mark
    

    The ground clearance on the TVR 3500S is nothing to write home
    about. A neighbour of mine used to have to take a special route
    to get get to his house in his TVR just to avoid the local speed
    ramps.

    Overall clearance couldn't have been more than 4 or 5 inches.

    My impression of the 3500S is that it is well put together, but
    lack the obvious touches of a mass produced car ... it's still
    a bit tacky in places.

  Mark

�    The ground clearance on the TVR 3500S is nothing to write home
    
    Isn't that the 3000S ?
    
    I thought that 280/3000 numbered cars had Ford V6 engines
    and that 350/390/400/420/450 numbers related to Rover V8 engined cars.
    
    Whatever, the 'S' is the rounded sportscar,
    the SE/SEAC big-numbered cars are the wedge-shaped ones (named?).
    
    CAR magazine certainly liked the latest version of the 'S' (S3?),
    but did comment on low ground clearance of exhause system.
    
    The Griffith is the latest offering from TVR, which includes a
    hot V8 - giving 0-60 times (quoted) below 5 seconds and
    standing quarter less than 14 seconds, that's fast...
    
    Is it this car that is supposedly based on the race-series TVR's ?
    (TVR Tuscan challenge ?)
    
    I would like to know what build quality is like on these cars,
    as I know that they are capable of going fast and handling well,
    but for a price of over 20 grand, you expect good quality too.
    
    J.R. (or is that too much to ask - quality AND performance ? )

    My neighbour has the latest version of the S. Infact, his very car
    was the one reviewed in FAST LANE (I think).

    I didn't pay too much attention, but thought that it was the 3.5
    Rover lump under the bonnet. Suppose it could have been the Ford
    V6 ...

    The only problem he has had with his so far is a leaking roof ...
    so, whats new !!!

    The glass fibre body is very well made, very rigid, and even the
    doors have a nice feel when you close them (there is a metal door
    frame covered with glass fibre).

    The only bit I didn't like about the car was the dashboard ...
    very cheap and home-made looking, despite being trimmed in leather.

 Mark

    The TVRs on display at the PARIS CAR SHOW last October looked very
    well built and finished.

    re.55
    
    I forgot to mention one other important detail : I'm 6'3" (1.90m ?).
    Still I suppose I'd better just go along and drive one to see what I
    think. I've contacted a dealer who said that nearly all their 1991
    slots had been taken (maybe just sales speak for "sign on the dotted
    line, Sir"). Thanks for the info on the dealer near Cambridge. I'll
    contact them this w/e to see what they've got to offer. 
    
    Paul.
    
    BTW. The quoted cost of a Griffith on the road, with leather upholstery, 
    was #24,500 and could rise further. 

I currently run a TVR S2. This has the ford 2.8 litre "Cologne"  V6 engine. The S3 has
the 2.9 litre version of the same Ford engine, a slightly redesigned interior and about
1.5 inches better ground clearence. I must admit that I get slightly irate at
with people that class TVR's as kit cars. They are Not. They are made in
Blackpool. I am reluctantly forced to agree that the finish on the production
cars is rarely as good as the "Motor Show" models, however they are just as fun to
drive. Well enough of my soapbox. The major point of my reply was to tell
Paul(.-1) that I have the seat fairly far forward and I am 5'9" so I don't
think that he would have a problem driving one.

Jim

    
    Jim.
    
    The problem with people thinking TVRs as kitcars is that for a long
    time that's just what they were. The thing people don't understand is
    that at that time some of the very best British sportscars were kits
    (TVRs, Marcii and, of course, the Elan) and essentially the only reason
    they were sold as kits was to dodge Tax.
    
    The kits sold in the 60s equate more to the way Caterham sell some cars
    these days. You got a fully assembled body and chassis and brand new
    running gear. You essentially just bolted the two halves together and 
    drove off in your new car (incidently, such cars these days are classed
    as new cars, incur Car Tax and carry current prefix number plates).
    
    Nowadays the factory show TVRs and Marcii are of excellent quality
    (with my proviso about TVR S bonnets, what's yours like?) and Lotus
    have moved up a notch (although they still seem to suffer from quality
    control problems according to road test's I've read - Sadly I don't
    own an Esprit HC at present :^(). Quality may not be that associated 
    with mass-production sportscars, but it is certainly leagues ahead of
    the original 60s cars.
    
    It's also worth noting that TVR and Marcos are both member of the motor
    manufacturers association (SMMG?) and both have very strong export
    sales. TVR's are no longer sold as kits and, while domestic market Marcii
    are usually sold in this form, export models are factory built.
    
    Mark

For info: SMMT = Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders
          SCMG = Specialist Car Manufacturers Group

There's no such thing as SMMG (to my knowldeg!)

I think it would be fair to call TVRs "componenet cars" rather than "kit cars".
They use components from other vehicles/manufacturers, such as Ford/Rover
engines, which were not designed for the purpose.

Kit cars are DIY component cars.  Marcii fall in between as they're a lot better
than your average kit car.

I mentioned Marcos in the first place, as I feel the cars are of comparable, if
not better, quality than Lotus/TVR, but may not be considered by some people
due to the company's low profile.  So someone who thinks TVRs are nice might
think Marcii are nicer, if only they knew the car existed!

Scott

    In the 'January' issue of Performance Car, they did a simple
    sort of comparison test to find 'Performance Car of thte year'.
    
    Contenders (in their finishing order, winner first) were :-
    
    	Audi quattro 20V
    	Alfa Romeo SZ (Il Monstro)
    	TVR S3
    	Lancia Delta integrale 16V
    	BMW M3 Sport Evolution
    	Mercedes 500SL
    	Lotus Elan SE
    	Land Rover Discovery V8 
    
    Comments of note :-
    
    	quattro - beautifully built, doesn't depreciate with undue vigour
    	          not the fastest car in the world but awesome nonetheless
    
    	SZ - Alfa's no-frills, bad-boy-Tonka-toy coupe
             ... if I'd wanted a limo I'd have been a businessman
    
    	TVR - latest is best yet ... One day I'll buy one
    	      but many of you could do it now.  Do it.
    
    	integrale - never failed to thrill ... over-riding impression being
    		understeer of a huge 'Hello Mr Sheep' style loss of traction
    		however, great fun.  Sheds value like a stallion with VD.
    
    	M3 - miles of understeer followed by sudden oversteer ... wayward. 
    	     an SZ behind one on a track could comb his hair waiting to get by,
    	     whilst BM driver would fight to keep wheels in the right direction.
    
    	Mercedes - an old man's car
    
    
    	Elan - headlights refused to go down after an hour, squeaked and rattled
    	       woeful reliability, drivers went fasted and enjoyed it least.
    
    	Discovery - don't know why it was in here, best dual-purpose car
    
    
    J.R. (I'd like the SZ...)

    
    The BARC are to organise a championship for 'Classic' TVRS.
    
    Any Pre-1980 TVR will be eligible and the races will take place at
    circuits around the country including Thruxton and Oulton Park (only
    ones I can remember).
    
    Does this exclude the early angular models, like the Tasmin?
    
    Mark

                                 
    I remember reading last year about 2 forthcoming TVR models the
    "Speed-eight" and the "Grffith" but have since seen no trace of
    them in any car magazine...
    
    Anyone know what happenned to them ? Any test reports ?
    
    From the pictures they both looked attractive and both were powered
    by a much modified Rover V8.
    
    Cheers Jon
    
    BTW. The German Car lobby won here again a couple of weeks ago - a
    proposal to bring down the German speed limit to 120 km/h was 
    overwhelmingly rejected.
    So it looks like we'll be able to continue to enjoy unrestricted
    Autobahns for some time to come. Well at least until the Eurocrats
    enforce some standard... :-(

�    I remember reading last year about 2 forthcoming TVR models the
�    "Speed-eight" and the "Grffith" but have since seen no trace of
    
    I haven't seen or heard anything of these in recent months, but
    someone who worked here about a year ago was vaguely interested
    in buying one and found that any of the TVR dealers were quite
    happy to take a deposit on them.
    
    On this subject, I noticed that the Alfa dealers in (near) Fareham
    are now also a TVR dealership, anyone care to call them and ask ?
    
    (that's Monzasport on 0489 577944)
    
    J.R.

    They are currently listed in current price lists.  The 'Speed 8' has
    now been re designated as the 'Speed 398' (3.9 Rover engine) and the
    'Speed 438' (4.3 engine - don't know where from).
    
    Griffith	:	25,795.00
    Speed 398	:	25,028.00
    Speed 438	:	28,093.00
    
    Shaun.

    
    The Griffith and the Speed 8 were both on the TVR stand at Motorfair
    (about 4 Griffiths as I recall). I didn't take a good look at the 8,
    but the Griffiths on the stand weren't finished! (No interior door
    trims or door glass) They looked a great shape, though, being more
    modern than the S, but retaining the classic curves that a good
    sportscar should have (IMHO). All this combined with very good
    performance (0-60 in about 4.8 seconds as I recall).
    
    Mark

what does the Speed 8 look like?

is it angular and ugly like the 420 SEAC etc etc style or is it more
in the vein of the Griffith?

...art

    
    It's very like the Tuscan in appearance. Like a big S.
    
    Mark

    
    re .
    
    Mark i was at the Motorfair on Sunday and went into the TVR stand,
    i sat in a Griffith and this car was definately finishedi was even
    playingh the electric windows, and it stunk of leath !}ier ! (lovely)
    
    Did you notice the Cavalier back lights though.                      

 Re .75
    
    The 4.3 engine is a even more heavily modified Rover engine (I think).
    
    	Rik

    
    sorry about the awfl grammar its this bloody modem link
    
    Nick

    
    Which one did you sit in? I didn't look at every one, but at least 2
    were as I described.
    
    Mark

    Re .79
    
    What's the cockpit like ?
    
    I sat in a 390 at a motor show 4 years ago and was put off by the
    claustrophobic cabin, the screen seemed to be so raked it nearly 
    touched my forehead and there was a really anti-social distance between
    driver and passenger.

     Well the one i sat in if my memory serves me correctly was at the far
    side of the stand and was a metallic burgundy colour with a cream
    leather interior.
    For a small(ish) car it felt enormous. The screen was definately 
    nowhere near my forehead although i am fairly tall and had the seat
    quite well back. As for the passenger i guess they would be a fair
    distance away from the driver as the tunnel is quite wide.
    Definately not a car to drive with your hand on your girlfriends leg!.
    Still i could put up with it.
    
    Nick

    Heard a radio advert this morning going on about the 'sound of thunder'.
    
    It was put out by Monzasport, the Alfa Romeo and TVR dealer down here.
    
    They now claim to have the Griffith available for test...
    
    Who's going to get on the phone about that one then ?
    
    J.R.

Hi there,

a frind of mine is the proud owner of a TVR 2800 S(1). He is looking for a kit
which boosts the power of its motor (2800 ccm Ford, german production).
Are there some kits available in UK? How much they are? What is the gain?

thanks in advance

Klaus 

    Try Specialised Engines
    	Manor Way Industrial Estate
    	Curzon Road
    	Grays
    	Essex	
    
    Tel:	0375 378606
    
    They specialise in rebuilding and tuning bith the Essex 3.0L lump and
    the later German derived 2.8L engine.
    
    

    
    
    	   Can anybody tell me if there's a TVR sales/garage in the
    	Mid Scotland area.
    
    
    
    						
    

    The only Dealer I know of in Scotland are :-
    
    Glenvarigill
    Cupar
    Fife
    
    Tel No 0334 53346
    
    I believe they also deal in Ferrari's.
    
    Chris
    

    
    Eck,
       Sure I saw one in Callander,
                                   Doogz

    
    
    I think I might have back you up on that one Dougie
    
     and aggree with you as well.......ooooeeerrrr
     it is down at the bottom end(opposite end of the town if you
     go in from Stirling) next to the shell garage...me thinks??? 

    Can anyone out there in carland tell me what TVR stands for, if in fact
    it stands for anything. A reply before 1730 would be appreciated as
    there is money riding on the outcome.
    
    Thanks in advance
    
           Andy.

�    Can anyone out there in carland tell me what TVR stands for
    
    How about "TreVoR" ?
    
    And what's up with replying in the TVR topic, number 61 ?
    
    J.R.

    When was the last time you read topic 61? I know I haven't read it for
    months!!

    � When was the last time you read topic 61? 
    
    	The last time a new reply was added!
    
    	The SAMPLE_CONFERENCE gives details on how to use notes,
    	this may help:
    
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>How about "TreVoR" ?

Isn't is TreVor R(whatever-his-last-name-is)?

Dave

    What does .4 mean? 

    Trevor Wilkinson founded the company in 1947.
    
    The initials for the company supposedly come from his first name.
    
    J.R.

    Is the Chimerea (sp!) going into production and does anyone know about
    this new engine being made by TVR - how could they develope it without
    millions worth of investment?
    
    Matt.

�    Is the Chimerea (sp!) going into production
    
    Write-up in this month's CAR magazine.
    
�    does anyone know about this new engine being made by TVR 
    
    Write-up in CAR magazine one or two months ago.  Also an article on
    the design of the Chimaera - thanks to the dog who bit a Griffith !
    
�    how could they develop it without millions worth of investment?
    
    'Cos that's how TVR work !
    
    Aston Martin recently sent some people to look around the TVR factory
    to see how they do things.  Not much chance of them managing to do
    things that way themselves (even less now that they have a *big* owner).
    
    J.R.

My local TVR garage, reckons on getting a test drive Chimaera sometime 
this/next month...

There's about a 6 month backlog on ordering TVR's at the moment.

The nice bit about that 6 month backlog is that the car is built for *you* and 
you can interfere almost as much as you like, they measure you and build the 
seats and controls to fit you :-)

I've got a picture(s) of it at my desk if anyone's interested (Newbury).

�				Chimaera
    
�I've got a picture(s) of it at my desk if anyone's interested (Newbury).
    
    But W.H.Smith is nearer for many people...  As is my desk.
    
    
    Or look in the SBP car park for a [Rover V8-based] Griffith.
    
    J.R.
    
    BTW, the article on 'owning a Griffith' in CAR magazine is a load
         of 'old tosh' (IMO), it should have been entitled :
    
    	"Talking about buying a TVR, which costs more than a Ford Escort
         and aren't I wonderful 'cos I've got dinky blue harnesses fitted
         to the car that I've bought and I don't like metallic paint ???"

    Does anyone know if TVR will again be available in the US (we are
    starved for interesting cars here).  I used to know a TVR dealer in 
    New York, but he dosn't carry the line anymore (hasn't for years).
    
    Jeff 
    
    

    
    What's happened to all those TVR enthusiasts lately, this note has been
    very quite?
    
    Did anyone watch Top Gear last night? They featured quite a lengthy review
    of the new TVR 2+2 Coupe, the TVR Cerbera. To say that Jeremy Clarkson
    liked the car would be a major understatement, still you can hardly
    blame him, the figures speak for themselves...
    
    360 Bhp
    320lb ft of torque
    0-60 in  4.2 seconds
    Top speed 160+ mph
    
    want one....
    
    Graham
    
    

re.105:

...and it was a very good looking car. 

Dave.

    I liked JC's comment regarding the back seats being suitable only if
    your offspring were hamsters.
    
    Clive

What a beautiful car.....I am green with envy !!

Met some English blokes on holiday in France this year who were touring France
in a TVR Griffith. I fell in love immediately (not with the bloke).....so from
now on my ambition is at some point to own a TVR Griffith !!

Regards

Barry

    
    
    The trouble with TVR's from a purchasing point of view is that they
    seem to hold their value extremely well. Even the older TVR 2.9 S' are
    still selling for around #12 - #14,000, with early J plate Griffiths
    going for around 23-25,000, which is amazing as I believe the first J
    plate Griffiths could be bought brand new for around #23,000. It even
    makes finance/hp so commonly offered nowadays sound feasable as you can
    offset some of the cost of HP against the extremely low deprieciation on
    the cars (provided the mileage is kept low).
    
    
        Graham

    Graham,
    
    Put your calculator away :-)
    
    Jonathan

Does anyone have any views on the practically of running a modern TVR (Chimaera
or Griffith) as an everyday car. I've checked out things like insurance (which
surprisingly isn't too bad), but one thing that worries me in particular is how
watertight the hood is. I don't have a garage, so it would be exposed to the
elements all the time.
Any comments or experiences most welcome!

CTW

    RE:-1
    
        I don't have any personal experience of the cars from an ownership
        point of view, however I have spoken to a number of dealers who all
        say that both the Griffith and Chimaera are practical everyday cars
        and are now very well sorted.
    
        I believe the problem with leaky hood's was well and truly banished
        with the arrival of the Griffith and hence the Chimaera, both cars now
        have the solid single piece centre section which is stored in the boot
        when removed, a very practical piece of design work.
    
        Infact the only negative comments I've heard regarding the recent
        cars is to do with the heating and ventalation system not being up to
        the job of supplying the cabin with warm air on a cold day.
    
        Apparently it also tends to get a bit stuffy with the roof up, but
        you don't buy a TVR to drive with the roof up do you!!
    
        Graham
            

    Top Gear reported they have very little depreciation.
    I have a recent Top Gear review in the mag, if your interested.

I would be interested in ANY review material. The more information I can get
before "taking the plunge" the better!

CTW

    RE: Ventilation.
    
    I have also heard that it can get really hot in the cockpit due to the
    location of the exhaust pipes and the transmission tunnel.
    
    Another owner also warned me that the air-conditioning (if fitted) is
    near useless.
    
    Apparently, you do want to drive with the hood up on a really hot
    summer's day to avoid heatstroke!
    
    From my own experience of a test drive they do seem a bit stuffy inside
    despite 2 large "holes" behind the seats that open out onto the road
    (and let in a lot of road noise!). I think all this mumbling about 
    practicality is missing the point of this kind of car.....buy it
    anyway, its tremendous performance for the money.
    
    One thing I'd be wary of at the moment is the high prices due to the
    long hot summer and a high demand for these cars which are in short
    supply. In the peak of summer there were hardly any in the papers but
    now there are quite a few but at high prices. More competition has
    got to mean lower prices surely? As soon as winter hits I reckon the
    prices will drop a couple of thousand. If you look at current prices
    the new Chimera (about 28000) looks more favourable than a 2 year old
    at 24000.
    
    Cheers,
    Barry.

    re .115
    
    Where do you want the report sending CTW?
    
    Greg

    
    Re:-1
    
    Could I have a copy as well? My mail address is Graham Boxall @NEW
    I've also got a far bit of info on the cars at home, I'll see if I can
    dig it out tonight.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Graham

my internet mail address is :
[email protected],
or internally :
chefs::warne_c

paper mail address is 
G6 @REO

cheers,

Chris Warne

    
    Have any of the TVR owners out there managed to cure the leaky roof
    problem that seems to trouble a number of the cars?
    
    During any periods of heavy rain (i.e. over the last week) my 'S3' seems
    to end up resembling a swimming pool rather than a car! The result is
    soaking wet carpets and damp seats. I have checked door seal's, 
    waterproofed the hood etc but it still seems to be coming in from somewhere.
    
    I can appreciate that the car is never going to be 100% watertight
    however any advice would be gratefully received.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Graham 

    Graham,
    
    Have you tried putting the roof *up* when you drive through the car
    wash ?
    
    Helpfully,
    Jonathan
    
    P.S. The roof doesn't leak on my MGF :)

Aha, but your MGF is not a TVR (Vroooooooooooooooooooom!!)   :-))

Craig.

    True,
    
    But at least I don't have to get mine serviced every 5 miles and it's
    body isn't as soft as butter and it's not a...wait for it...KIT car :-)
    
    Oh, the ultimate insult, eh ?
    
    Only joking, Grahams TVR is wonderful, but a bit wet I guess.
    
    Jonathan (Who *is* considering a Cerbera to replace the MGF in a future
    life)             

    Jon,
    
    
    Thanks for your advice regarding the car wash, i'll try to remember 
    next time! TVR do actually say in the owners handbook not to take the car
    through a car wash as the door/hood seals aren't designed to withstand the
    force! Says a lot doesn't it...
    
    
    Graham
    
    
    P.S The MGF's not a bad car - if you are a hairdresser :-)
     
    

    

    Hi,
    
    Can anyone help me ?  I'm thinking of buying a second hand Griffith 500
    and would appreciate any advise on know problems with the car or things
    to look out for when buying.  
    
    Thanks in advance
    
    Iain