Conference terri::cars_uk

Have premiums increased excessively over the winter?

At the start of October I was quoted �412 for 3PF&T for a renault 5GT turbo,
(after shopping around- quotes ranged from over �1200 to �412), that was with
a compulsory excess of �100.
Asking again this week, the cheapest quote was �589 (without an excess). 

An increase of almost  �180!! 

Why the big price increase???


...Art.

    Make sure you get the quote with the excess - it can make alot of
    difference. My excess is #150, but my group 6b GTI is #280 fully
    comp.
    
    Ric

apparantly the ins. companies don't care much for excess 
they would give me a �4 discount if I return when I'm 22 years old tho'.

I suppose the high premiums effectively keep young drivers off the road...
except for the ones driving around without insurance.

...Art.

>I suppose the high premiums effectively keep young drivers off the road...
>except for the ones driving around without insurance.

	High premiums keep young drivers in less sporty cars.

Richard.

s'what I meant



Swintons rang back earlier & said that a cheaper policy (�480) if it was an 
older 5GTT 115bhp. therefore does 5bhp=�100 ???



...Art

    Willis Faber gives discount for Deccies, I get 30% off. See a note
    near the end of the conference which gives details.

Hi,		(wow, its a long time since anyone notes in this topic)


	Its that time of year again, time for me to dig deep in my pocket
and insure my car for another year.   And of you guys got any suggestions 
of places to try for a good value insurance policy....


Here are some details.


Age 		25	(in theory should mean cheaper insurance than last year)

NCB		FULL	(5 or 6 years can't exactly remember, its full and
			 protected at the moment)

CAR		Opel Manta Berlinetta 1.8S


I want a Full comp policy with protected no claims. with a company that will
pay out if the worst should happen.


			Any Suggestions on whom to try.

�Age 		25	(in theory should mean cheaper insurance than last year)
    
    As you say 'in theory'.  Does anyone remember their premiums ever
    going down from one year to the next, due to NCB discount etc.
    
    
�			Any Suggestions on whom to try.
    
    Do you mean insurance brokers ?
    
    It is they who SHOULD find the best deal available for you.
    Whether they cover enough insurance companies or not will
    really determine what options they can provide (logical ?).
    
    On a 'normal' car such as your Manta, I would expect *most*
    insurance companies to be reasonable.  What you may find, though,
    is that as the car is prefixed with the 'Opel' name, it may be
    classed one group higher than a 'Vauxhall' (Cavalier Coup� as was).
    
    This, because "Opel is a foreign car, Vauxhall is not" !
    
    
    I am insured with Norwich Union, because they were recommended
    by my brokers - I hope that they would pay out if the worst
    were to happen.  Whether they would or not, I hope that I do
    not have to find out.  I am under the impression that they can
    be classed as a 'reputable' company - if that term exists within
    the insurance market...

    Well, assuming you work for Digital and ain't one of those hasty
    Contractor types why not use the Digital/Sun Alliance scheme ? I do. -
    It saved me �100 (300 -> 200) off a AA (and RAC) quote.

    Not sure where to look it up (VTX - Emp Benefit ?) as its done through
    my wife who does work for Digital (You see I AM a contractor...).
    
    If your interested I'll talk to here and find who she contacted.
                                                                    

	I'm interested


	I'm interested


			Mike who is not a contactor...

i found that the 'swinton ins. co.' to offer the cheapest quote for me
they were as low as some specialised companies (sports, young, etc)

they were quite friendly, took credit cards & allowed me 2 months to pay in the 
first place

...art

�i found that the 'swinton ins. co.' to offer the cheapest quote for me
    
    I am under the impression that Swinton are a 'franchise' name,
    which can be 'bought into' by any insurance broker.  This gives
    whatever benefits apply to larger company backing etc.
    
    This only bothers me because there is a local insurance broker
    who I would not deal with (again - that's right, I did once),
    which now proudly displays the Swinton banner.  I do not know
    what sort of checking Swinton do when issuing franchises, but
    I would hope that anyone trading under this name would have to
    follow certain company (Swinton) rules.  If this is correct, then
    you should have nothing to worry about.
    
    When I used the afore-mentioned broker, my policy was with GRE.
    That turned out quite cheap, but I had lots of trouble getting
    any money out of them following a claim.  This was some time ago,
    so I would hope that things have improved since then.
    
    
�they were quite friendly, took credit cards & allowed me 2 months to pay in the 
    
    I think the option of paying over 2 or 3 months is common nowadays.
    (It is provided on Norwich Union policies).
    You do, of course, pay an interest charge, but this will often be
    easier than paying the whole lot in one go.

  I just recently took insurance from 'The Insurance Service' - loadsa ads
  in the papers - and they took my AA quote from 350 -> 215 guaranteed for
  two years. You have to satisfy 6 points - over 25, 50% NCB, 3 years without
  claim, 5 years without accident, and sumfink else which I can't remember.

  Certainly worth a try - you get a 10 pound M&S voucher if you take up their
  offer :-) - also discount for National Recovery and free windscreen cover.

  Worth a try???

  Andy

    re .61 GRE
    
    About 10 months ago I had an accident. The bill went to GRE and that
    was it!!! No hassle whatsoever.
    
    Cheers,
    Flying Dutchman

    Re. .58
    
    I lied, its not Sun Alliance - in fact I don't know who it is (Though I
    will find out). The info is in VTX under Reading Eng (But VTX is down
    at the moment).
    
    The person I spoke to (at the brokers) was John Condon (sic) on
    0245-351515 he was VERY helpful as as a said easlier beat all other
    quotes by about �100.

    Try MGI in Guildford:
    
    Wey House,
    Farnham Rd,
    Guildford,
    Surrey.
    
    0483-571713
    
    Ask for motor dept.
    
    I've found them to be friendly, courteous and helpful. The service
    is spot on. I phoned for a quote, was offered the option of paying
    by instalments which I wanted to do..!!..paid the first instalment by using
    the flexible enemy, and was covered straight away, the forms were
    with me the next day, and once completed and returned the certificate
    (not a cover note) and policy were back to me within a couple of
    days. As I pay by standing order, when the policy came up for renewal,
    a new certificate was mailed to me with no prompting on my part
    and the payments remained the same. 
    
    As for what they are like when making a claim I cannot say as I
    have never had an accident. But judging by the service so far I
    would not anticipate any probs.
    
    Give them a call....nothing to lose...
    
    Paul

Athough I am a member of the AA I have always found their insurance quotes to be
far higher than going through a broker - the last time I renewed my insurance 
the AA quoted �100 higher for their policy through Norwich Union than the price 
I got through my broker !!!

I have used "Mercer Jones & Co" on 0782-202-007 for the last seven years and
they haven't been beaten on a quote yet (Volvo 120, XR3i and Golf GTi in this
time). 

�they were quite friendly, took credit cards & allowed me 2 months to pay in the 
    
>    I think the option of paying over 2 or 3 months is common nowadays.
>    (It is provided on Norwich Union policies).
>    You do, of course, pay an interest charge, but this will often be
>    easier than paying the whole lot in one go.


no the way I did it was by forgetting to give proof of my no claims discount
so they didn't actually forward my visa slip for payment until a couple of 
months after cover started, so i possibly saved a few pence in interest while 
I still had the money in my bank account for 2months; they just seemed quite
flexible when it came to paying up time
they did send a letter threatening to levy a handling charge if i was 3 months
late in paying...


...art

�no the way I did it was by forgetting to give proof of my no claims discount
    
    That was a 'good deal' then, you must have been lucky.
    
    I thought that if you had not provided proof of NCB, then
    you had to pay the full amount - with the proviso that you
    would get a refund when proof was provided.

    
    If the UK ever joins Europe, you guys better rethink your budget for
    insurance!

I have had very good experience of A-plan insurance brokers in Newbury (also 
Oxford etc).  I have found it extremely difficult to contact the AA by phone
as they are either engaged or don't answer, and I don'r fancy trying to persue
a claim under those conditions.

Mike.

    I also found A-Plan (Basingstoke) very good, they got my money from my
    claim very quickly. Now I'm with CIS due to the fact they 500 notes
    cheaper than any other insurance company when I last renewed.
    
    (��)Munce.

    
    I can also vouch for the fact that CIS are effective as well as cheap.
    
    Mark

GRE proved slightly cheaper than Norwich Union for a group 7 car, though
a number of other companies were cheaper still, but without no claims
discount protection (St Catherines 399, GRE 535, NU 582).

I'm impressed with GRE's valuations of used cars.

Steve

    
    I know I'm not alowed to say anything bad about a compnay - but...
    
    I have just cancelled my insurance which was taken out through the AA,
    and have sent back 7 or 8 cover notes! they have agreed to my demand
    that I should get a pro-rata refund for the rest of the insurance
    period.......
    
    They may be able to cope with the simple things, - but whaever you do,
    don't try changing vehicles!
    
    If you want details, send mail!

    
    Re. Changing cars. I've had the same trouble with the RAC!
    
    Ian.
    
    

    
    Me thinks these Insurance Companies/Brokers have become painfully
    strict ever since "devious insurance fiddles" were disclosed.
    
    Some clever people were taking out full-cover insurance on a Mini 
    and a month later informing the Broker that they had changed "it"
    to a <enter bigger and expense vehicle here> !
    
    In one case a change from a Mini to Rolls Royce was quoted ! It was
    apparently legal !!!
    

    
    yes, but the premiums are increased accordingly, aren't they?! 
    
    Whenever I've changed vehicles thay always have been, or am I missing
    another fiddle?

    I have just received my insurance renewal form General Accident.... the
    new quote registers a 71.6% increase on my last premium.
    
    The reason... General Accident has had four price increases in the last
    year !!
    
    You have been warned...

Re.78:

Can we assume you will be shopping around?

/Dave.

	My insurance, when renewed a month or so back, was up some
	23%, and I did investigate alternatives but to no avail.

	Insurance, particularly captive insurance such as cars and
	houses, is a wonderful business where no matter what the
	market conditions you just up the price willy nilly.

	I am suspicious that big companies tend to milk car and
	building insurance when trade in the more optional types
	drops off.

	-John

My last renewal (end of March) was down by ~10% on last year.

I had 10% more NCB this year, so there was no increase through inflation
or other price hikes.

The company is NIG.  Check them out...

    My wife's insurance (mine's the company car) has always been
    reasonable, it's The Insurance Service. First year, fully comp for the
    Visa was �98, second year the saem (part of their deal) this year was
    �106, and it went up to �125 for the AX. Seem reasonable to me.
    
    Richard

    
    
    RE .81,
    
       National Insurance and Guarantee, is owned by the 
       one and only Gerald Ronson, Heron corporation.

>            -< Atleast it was when i worked for them 7 years ago. >-

ummm, How long for ? and is that Tim Lacey ?

    
    
    Sure is.

    
    Well, my insurance is due at the end of this week, and the renewal form
    dropped into the letter-box at the week-end.
    
    One MR2 T-BAR, over 2 years old, estimated Value 7000-7500. Full Green
    Card. 60% NCD (was 50%).  Clean driving license.
    
    What do you think ?
    
    
    � 1340.00     :-(       
    
    
    
    I think i may investigate 3rd party.
    
    Nigel
    

>    I think i may investigate 3rd party.

Check other companies also. What can happen is that an insurance company /
syndicate may decide it is loaded too heavily in that particular area. Therefore
they may load this area to lose business, but still remain competitive in all
other areas.

The point being, you can't judge a company's price economy in one area by it's
performance in another. Some companies have trends; like the Norwich Union
doesn't mind american cars, and the NIG is ok for young women on large cars, but
even these can change.

Go to a good broker and ask them to find out.

M.

    is that with a Full years Grean card ? if so,  I think that quite a
    good price.
    

    Nigel,
    
    That's fairly reasonable for a years European driving. Most people have
    to pay an extra �25 a week/2 weeks for a green card.
    
    Why don't you try to insure it here? There must be some imported ones
    in France?
    
    				Lewis.

    
    Lewis,
    	�25 for 2 weeks for a green card would be a bit of a bargain....  :-(
    
    	I know that a year ago the difference between a UK only rate and
    full year green card was over �800.
    
    I've tried to insure it here.  They don't sell them, and presuambly
    insurance companies don't touch cars that can't be repaired in that
    country.
    
    Nigel
    
    p.s.  Just 3 along from me Graham has managed to insure an Elan SE
    turbo for ~7000 francs.  Makes you sick dunnit.
    

    
    What annoys me, is that insurance companies in France are 50%+ cheaper
    than the UK.  Why ? 
    
    re .87
    
    There is still only GRE doing a full years green card (unless you have
    an existing policy with NU).
    
    Unless someone knows different.
    
    
    Nigel

Dunno what it would cost, but the AA do a green card that is seperate and in
addition to your normal car policy. Might be worth asking them.

    Yes Nigel,
    
    Remember my XR2? I had that insured with the AA and it cost �1200
    TPFT. This was for a 19 year old, with 2 years NCB and a nearly
    clean license... only a parking offence, and before anyone says it,
    i know it was the law but it wasn't fair ;-) Oops wrong topic ;-)
    
    Regards,
    
    				Lewis.

    Have you tried Halfords Motor insurance it gives 30% of for dec's
    I saved �120 whith them.Their tel.no. is in these notes under
    insurance.
    
    

    Nigel,
    
    I've just had a quote from St. Catharine's *with* 1 year green card.
    No, I'd never heard of them before either, but they do offer rates
    competitive with GRE and NU. Mail me if you need details of how to get
    to them (ie. my broker's number).
    
    Laurie.

>    I've just had a quote from St. Catharine's *with* 1 year green card.
>    No, I'd never heard of them before either, but they do offer rates
>    competitive with GRE and NU. Mail me if you need details of how to get
>    to them (ie. my broker's number).

I have, St Catherine's Motor Policies at Lloyds. A fair policy, slow claims
service and no leeway with policy cover.

	I've been insured for St Catherines for 3 years, made one claim
	(they paid in 8 weeks), and think they're ok. They are also
	v. good for those with DR convictions btw (like me)...

	JQ.

>	v. good for those with DR convictions btw (like me)...

You get convicted for being a Doctor ???

    
    I've just had a quote from this St C* company mentioned a few replies
    back and i'm astonished :-
    
    �786
    
    Shurely shome mishtake ?
    
    
    
    Nigel
    
    

>    Shurely shome mishtake ?

Prob. not. In a composite company they tend to be very stable and don't change
their market particularly from one year to the next. A Lloyds syndicate tends to
be more volatile in what it wants to accept, is allowed to accept and does
accept.

If a Syndicate decides that it's business in Market X (young drivers, say) is
too high, they will instantly double their rates for anyone under 25. This will
mean that they will get no young driver new business and very little young
driver renewal. If they do get it, they don't mind because their premiums are so
high, it is worth their while. It also works the other way. If there is an area
of business that the syndicate feels it can make loads of dosh at and in which
it is not particularly heavily loaded at the moment, then it will halve it's
rate.

This has always been one of the difficulties for a broker and a large reason for
the survival of all the computerised quotation systems. It is very difficult to
keep a handle on the market with the speed with which the Loyds part changes.

The effect as far as your concerned is that this year it is a very economical
premium, by your next renewal it could be the worst premium on the market.

M.

I have just had my renewal in. One years no claim bonus, Third Party, fire and
theft. The princely sum is �208. Not too bad for a V8 Landy. I will ring them
and find out what group it is in.

Simon

>and find out what group it is in.

It doesn't matter. The group changes from organisation to organisation and the
difference between each group alters greatly.

I realise that Mark, thanks. My brokers said that they had found another 
insurer (sp?) that put the Landy into a group 2 (or 1 even ?), currently it is
a group 4. They are currently looking into this and will ring me back. I wonder
how much less it will be if they do drop the grouping.

Simon

>I have just had my renewal in. One years no claim bonus, Third Party, fire and
>theft. The princely sum is �208. Not too bad for a V8 Landy. I will ring them

Try the RAC in Soton 0703 335361, they've just given me Fully Comp on
my Sierra (Group 4) 1 year NCB, with me driving and wife(provisional license) 
for �290.

They were the lowest by far, most around �350

Alex

My brokers have just phoned me back. Still group 4, but could put it to group 2
which would increase my premium :-} due to their rates. The current insurer
(NIG) have now said that the �208 is high and in fact should be �169 :-).

It pays to phone up. I could have paid the �208 and been none the wiser. I 
wonder how many people just pay, and how much _profit_ are the insurance groups
making this way.

Simon

    Every year, when the time comes to insure my wife's car, the renewal
    notice drops through the door.  I always ring my broker, and several
    others, in order to get a cheaper quote.  When they ask the cheapest
    I always tell them a figure that is about 80% of the lowest figure I
    have actually been quoted.
    
    For the last three years, my broker has always been able to get me
    insured for about 70% of the original quote.  If you dont ask, you dont
    get.
    
    FWIW, we pay �145 for a group 2 car, fully comp, protected NCD, no
    excess, with legal cover and a hire car if needed.  This is with the
    Minster insurance Co, through Endsleigh.
    
    I'm about to find out how good they are, since someone drove into the
    car in SavaCentre car park yesterday.
    
    
    John

    Re -1
    
    Have you tried the lease scheme?
    

Look for any broker that is advertising a Lloyds contact and they should be able
to help you. As a guide, most of the Bennetts offices should be able to help.
Also people like Sheltons, JW Francis used to be able to help.

Bennetts would be your best bet though. They'll screw you for evey penny they
can get form you, but they do know what they're talking about.

M.

    
    Off the beaten track a small tad, but my parents have just had a garage
    in Barnsley on the phone, asking what they should do about a certain
    MR2 parked there  !!
    
    It would appear that it has been there from Nov '88, has accumulated
    over �1000 of storage charges and the Norwich Union (insurers) have no
    record of it.
    
    I have disclaimed all ownership etc.  I don't suppose there could be
    a grands worth of parts in a recoverable state.
    
    I wonder what it looks like now ;-)
    
    
    
    Nigel
    

>>                 <<< Note 16.110 by RUTILE::GUEST "Someone" >>>
>>                          -< Takes me back a bit.... >-
    
>>    I wonder what it looks like now ;-)
    
    If you want to remember what it LOOKED like, Martin Smith say's he
    still has the pictures!.
    
    Richard

    
    I've still got a dozen or so piccies, including some that Martin hasn't
    seen (discovered in an old film).
    
    Also 2 18 inch pins and one or two scars.
    
    It's just the thought of it covered in rust and falling apart.  :-(
    It deserves better than that.
    
    Nigel

I've just had my renewal notice...

What used to be a 6300ffr policy turned into a 4146ffr policy (not bad for 1
years extra NCB! ;-)) and it's been described as a "Fully Comprehensive Policy 
with Natural Disaster on Only Driver" cover.

The actual premium is 11462ffr with 5043ffr reduction for "Only Driver" and a 
further reduction of 3338ffr for 4 years NCB.

The car is a 2.5i Jeep Wrangler Sahara Soft Top (extra high security model ;-))
and i'm a very happy 20 going on 21 year old. Anyone have any ideas on what the 
premium would be in the UK? I daren't call any brokers... ;-)

Regards,

				Lewis.

    My first quote (when I was finally able to find a company that would
    give a quote) for my '87 Cosworth was #8600.00.  I am 26, had a minor
    nose to tail last year and only arrived in the UK 3 months ago.  My
    mkII RS2000 which is considered a high risk vehicle back home cost
    A$220 for a years comp.  It seems car theft is one of the UK's major
    industries.
    
                                Raymond    :^(

    What are you going to do ? Sell the Cossie ?
    
    Gary.

    A US ex-military chum of mine has just been requoted for his Porsche
    944 S2 (turbo version). �250 fully comp with trimmings... He lives in
    London, and in his mid thirties.... How does he do it? Well it's the
    ex-military bit; his insurance is arranged through an American company
    and which does a special deal on customers who wer/are in the US
    military.
    
    Not only that, last year he received a "rebate" of $50 because his
    insurance company made big profits on their "investments" and it is the
    company's policy to share (some of) this profit with its customers.
    
    

    I'm currently in the process of getting insurance quotes for my car,
    and have come across a new feature in all the insurace quotes that I
    have had so far. You now have to pay to have your car nicked!! 
    Insurance companys in a moment of wisdom have decided to place a
    excess of approx 100 pounds to apply to all Fire or Theft claims. This
    seems redicules to me, who in thier right mine wants to have their can
    nicked, and why should I pay for having the hassels of my car being stolen,
    when I left it lock, etc in a security monitored car park. Seem like a
    rip off to me. But what do you think?
    
    Neil

We've just come across this too. I believe some Insurance Companies are
intending to waive this if the customer has a car alarm fitted. Does anyone
know any more?

dougie

>    seems redicules to me, who in thier right mine wants to have their can
>    nicked,

A little naive ? How about anyone (criminally minded) who was crashed their car
and written it off. Unfortunately with TPF&T cover they will not get it repaired
or payed for, unless of course it was "stolen".

Or someone who blows an engine or can't afford the repayments etc etc etc.

I would imagine that this would represent quite a saving for them. Lloyds
syndicates have been applying All Sections Excesses for years.

M.

    Someone in our project team currently drives an Alfa Spider, but
    is soon to purchase a TVR Griffith (b*st*rd ;-), so he got some
    insurance quotes.
    
    Most companies wanted a number of thousands (more than one), but
    upon speaking to a 'TVR Specialist', he got a quote of about 900 quid.
    
    Since the car isn't due for a couple of months and his Alfa insurance
    is up for renewal, he called the broker as he thought it would be
    easier to insure the Alfa through them and subsequently change the
    car on that same policy.  This involves two months cover on the Alfa,
    with the remaining 10 on the TVR.  The premium ?  1300 pounds !!!
    
    BTW, best quote for a year on the Alfa was just below 700 pounds.
    
    What would you rather drive ?
    
    J.R.
    
    PS reason for higher premium is that the company has 'offers' on
       TVRs (as they claim to be a specialist with the make of car),
       but don't get these discounts for Alfas...

    Out of interest, I checked on an insurance quote for the kit car that
    I am soon to build, just to get an idea of what I will have to pay.
    
    For those that don't know of it, it is a two-seater with a spaceframe
    type of construction having fibreglass bodywork and will have a
    3-litre V6 engine from an Alfa Romeo 164 (exec motor) fitted midships.
    This particular kit is more commonly fitted with a 2-litre engine
    from a Lancia Beta, so I am looking at considerably more performance.
    
    So, the quote that I got was ?
    
    Five Hundred and Seventy Five Pounds, fully comp, no limited mileage.
    
    That is a good thousand pounds less than I'd expected !  Great, eh ?
    
    J.R.

    
    You sure that wasn't for a day?
    
    Mark

>>                     -< Maybe we should all get one! :^) >-
    
    Only if I get commission on your purchases  ;-)
    
    I must say that I would expect insurance for the Alfa 164 to cost more
    than I was quoted for this kit.  Only makes me wonder if it is a 'good'
    insurance policy, or one which is only useful from a legal point of
    view, perhaps being of no use if a claim arose ?
    
    J.R.

    
    Most of the quotes I got for my 4 pot GM repmobile were more than that,
    so I'd be AMAZED to find a V6 Alfa being cheaper, so I reckon you're
    getting cover for much less than a 164.
    
    I suppose they consider the average kit builder will take more care of
    his car than Mr Maestro-Escort-Astra man, but it doesn't sound
    incredibly cheap. Read the small print carefully, but if it looks ok,
    you'll be a fool to refuse it! 
    
    One thought, is it an agreed value cover?
    
    Mark

    
    I got some premature kit car insurace quotes in the early days of
    building my Mirage Countach.  (V8, + funny cams, carb etc etc).  Can't
    remember exactly what it came to, but I was pleasantly surpirsed; it
    cost only a little more that it costs me to insure my Audi. (about 450
    quid.)
    
    Martyn.

	NG TC 3.5 V8, fibreglass on MGC running gear


	250 quid for Dave and myself.

	0-60 in about 3.5 seconds

	limited 7,500 miles

	Heather

>>    One thought, is it an agreed value cover?
    
    I didn't think to specifically ask for this, but I was asked for
    the value of the completed vehicle and put it at over 30,000 pounds.
    
    I asked as to the possibility of cover for the kit during the
    build stage, as this is offered by some companies.  First question
    then was how much the components would be worth.  Upon answering
    that it would start at about 8 grand, increasing with time, I was told
    that this cover would not be readily available.  This is because
    'build insurance' is usually sold on the basis that the insurance
    company will get the subsequent vehicle insurance.  The company
    which provide the quote of 575 pounds did not provide this extra.
    
    I'll just have to put better locks on the garage, and look into the
    wording of my house contents policy ! (fat chance there I should think)
    
    J.R.

RE: Lancia Stratos V6 kit, wow, that is a low figure...

I recently looked at changing for a newer Golf, so I asked for an 
up-to-date quote from my brokers against that expected for my renewal:

   Risk: under 25, 50% NCB.  Car not garaged, in Reading area.

 '83 MK1 Golf GTI 1.8, value �2000;  TPF&T           �400-�500    22%
 '89 MK2 Golf GTI 1.8, value �6000;  Comprehensive  �1000         16%


The percentage is the premium as a percentage of total value. 

Looks like the premium on my old MK1 has gone up about 30% over last 
year (ignoring the effect of the NCB discount).  Not good, but then 
again, not as bad as some rumours I have heard.

I'll leave the MK2 for now, didn't want to sell my current car 
anyway!  Four figure insurance is getting silly money.

Rob.

    
    I got build-up insurance for my heap.  I just got the renewal notice
    today - 150 quid just to sit on its arse in my garage.
    
    Depressed of Camberley.
    

>>    I got build-up insurance for my heap.  
    
    I guess I could find out what 'heap' you are building by reading
    through the kit car notes, but save me the trouble, what is it ?
    
    J.R.

	It's a Countach,

	anyhow, I pay 180 pounds a year, fully comprehensive, milage limited
	to 6000 (easily enough, but extensible anyhow) on the Marlin
	(1.6 GT, decent exhaust, ignition, Weber).  I've no idea how
	fast it is 0-60, but it's quicker than the XR2 I had and handles
	much better.  (Or will again, once I replace the front springs
	and shocks)...

	Dave

	Oh, I'm 34 and married.

    Well this looks to be as good a place as any. Has anyone done a
    "DIR/TIT=Insurance" :-) ?
    
    Insurance companies are putting certain performance cars in much higher
    groups than that recommended by the Association of British Insurers
    (ABI) in its new 20-group system.
    
    The switch has seen most cars' ratings double but there are some
    insurance companies who are using their own rules to group some cars
    higher still :-(
    
    				ABI	EAGLE STAR	GENERAL ACCIDENT
    Vauxhall Calibra 16v	14	  16			16
    Pug 205 1.9 GTi		14	  18			14
    VW Golf GTi 16v		15	  18			16
    BMW 318iS Coup�		13	  13			13
    
    BMW says the low rating accorded to the 318iS is due to the more
    'responsible' drivers who buy it. 8-\
    
    All info supplied from an article in this weeks Autocar & Motor and the
    above examples are all that are quoted.
    
    Dave

    
    More BM Bullshit! :^S
    
    Mark
    
    PS As usual, though, the groups don't mean much. The RS 2000 Escort is
    in a higher group than the Sierra Cosworth (?!?), but the latter costs
    double to insure! Again these details are from A&M - Last weeks, I
    guess.

    I recommend my insurers.  When I got quotes on my Senator 3.0 CDi Auto 
    the highest was #999 the lowest #472.  So I picked the lowest (!) which
    was from:-
    
    Preferred Direct of Camberley.
    
    If you want a no obligation quote from them then phone 0800 850 750
    
    it will not cost you anything except 5 minutes of your time and it
    might save you money (as it did me).   
    
    Please quote my name as your referral 
    
    	A. MACMILLAN  Policy No. 137 273   (I will get an acknowledgement)
    
    

    Whats an acknowledgement??  Cash? Gift?
    
  
    Xtine

>    Whats an acknowledgement??  Cash? Gift?
>   
>
>    Xtine

A discount when you next renew.


Preferred also prefer vehicles with no more than 5 seats.

Dave (7 seat Espace owner)

     I have 5 penalty points for undue care and attention.My Insurance cost
    400 quid (fully comp) with direct line.So I thought I'd phone
    Churchill and omit my points just to see what sort of quote I'd get.

    Info I gave
    Car:1.0 88 Metro
    Age 24
    Driving for 5 years
    2 years no claims
    Value of car:1500

     Quote they gave me.....
    
     623 quid !!!!   Who's there chairman....Dick Turpin


     SCott

    
    I rang up and asked for a quote on a car and they said they would call
    me back. They didn't. I waited two days and rang them again and they
    said "Sorry, we won't insure a 22 year old in that car".
    
    It was only a Frontera; Not exactly a boy racer mobile.

    
    Anyone got any experience lately of trying to get a 1 year green card
    out of the insurance companies ?
    
    Who's looking the cheapest ?
    
    It would be for Germany, where apparently you cannot insure a UK car
    without first registering/taxing it.  Unless anyone know different.
    
    
    Ta,	Nigel
    

    
    
    My experience was to get a 3 month green card through Norwich Union
    and then keep renewing it. I ended up keeping my car in Germany for
    18 months that way. I paid �10 per week, but I think it was the
    cheapest option for me (�520 for green card + �330 for insurance
    = �850 for a year).
    
    - Jonathan Stubbs
    

My dad works in Germany, I can find out who he deals with if you want.

The deal with a car in germany is thus :-

It used to be that if you had a British registered car, you could
keep it in Germany for 6 months, after which you had to import it
or else buy a German registered car.

Thankfully now this has changed slightly. Provided you have a
permanent residence in the UK, you can keep a British registered
car in Germany for as long as you want.

I will try and find out about the green card business when he
next phones!

Dan.

    
    I also would have thought that being in the EEC, EU or whatever else
    you want to call it, would mean that requiring you to have a green card
    when you travel to a foriegn country was illegal, since other countries
    insurance companies do not require you to have them. This I know cos
    I had both UK and German reg'd cars at the same time, for conveniance
    sake I had German & UK insurance, Germany didn't require Green cards to 	
    travel abroad.
    
    Garry, who's six months ran out about 6 years ago ;-)

    My experience was the same as Jonno's - renewing the green card every 3
    months at the rate of �50 per month.
    In the end I switched to third party only cover, which you get
    automatically without requiring a green card.
    
    There were no questions asked with the car renewing ad-infinitum, but
    after 6 months, the UK insurance company refused to renew the green
    card for the bike.
    
    Rob

    RE: .141
    
    Dan,
    
>>Thankfully now this has changed slightly. Provided you have a
>>permanent residence in the UK, you can keep a British registered
>>car in Germany for as long as you want.

    Is this a European directive or just for Germany?
    
    Dave

    Nowadays, one automatically gets the local legal minimum insurance by
    virtue of being insured in the UK. That means that if you drive a
    fully-comp-insured car in say Belgium, you get third-party only whilst
    there. A green card means that you can enjoy home-cover, abroad; there
    is no requirement for a green card. However, local plod *expect* to see
    one, here in Europe it's used as a certificate. GRE and Norwich Union
    do it, and St. Peters (used to be St. Katherines) are still doing it.
    
    Laurie.

Hi,

I have owned two cars while living here in France, the first a 1.6L 
Cavalier (Sold to Gary Vipond a few notes back, the poor fool) which
was insured with Guardian Royal Exchange, for 3rd Party, Fire and theft
with a years green card cost 411 UK pounds (160 without card), the newer
car, a 2.0Ghia Sierra was over 1000 pounds (250 without card). Does anyone
no of a better deal ?

Graham N (for now without a card).

    
    Well, here in Switzerland you have to go to your insurance agent in
    person and say "Please can I have a green card" (in German preferably)
    and......
    
             ......they give you one - at no EXTRA COST. Of course, the
    insurance costs an arm & a leg anyway!

    Laurie,
    
    Do you have the number of St Peters (nee St Katherines) ?
    
    Ta
    
    Nigel

    Sorry Nigel, no. but you could ring my mate Robin Belsom at Colin Ryan
    on 0473-232277. It was he who arranged the insurance for me in the
    first place, and who has subsequently arranged insurance for quite a
    few ex-pats.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    
    Ta,  St Katherines has now apparently turned into St Pauls.

Okay I've found out a bit more now.

If the rules I stated previosuly (16.141) apply to
you, then you do not need green card insurance ie.
you have a permanent UK residence.

My dad says he only knows of one place that'll do
green card insurance, I think he said it was
Guardian Royal ? Hmm, can't remember, I think that's
who he said.

Hope this helps.

Dan.

    You're correct about not *needing* a green card, *but* over here, the
    local plod want and expect one. They're a normal part of insurance
    here, not an expensive extra (thank goodness!). They are, in effect,
    an insurance certificate. Besides, if your UK Ins Co finds out that
    you spend 90% of your time abroad, they'll decide it was an
    undeclared material fact. Betchalife on it.
    
    Laurie.

    Hmm, better warn my dad then!
    
    Or maybe he's just one of thos ignorant sods who thinks he's not going
    to have a smack!
    
    Cheers,
    
    Dan.
    

    
    More help required i'm afraid !
    
    Does anyone have a non freephone number for Churchill (their
    advertised number is 0800 200 300 which doesn;t work to well overseas).
    

    Many thanks
    
    
    Nigel (Due to cluster rebuilding noting from a non-personal account)
    

    Switchboard 081 313 3030.

    
    
    Well, I have just discovered the real reason for inflated insuance
    premiums - INCOMPETENCE & SHEER WASTEFULNESS.
    
    Severel weeks ago, my wife was involved in a small collision which
    slightly damaged the rear of her car.  Had it not been for a neck
    injury, she would probably have let the matter be settled by the third
    party directly.  However, because of this we decided to go through
    solicitors & insurance co's.  We got the requested 2 quotes for damage
    repair (123 & 149 quid) and passed them on to the 3rd party's insurers
    (Eagle Star).  Not happy with this they told us to go to their own
    repairers (Gowrings body shop in Wokingham) who subsequently carried
    out the repairs for a total of...........
    
    FIVE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY SIX POUNDS STERLING !!!!!!!!
    
    Yes - 586 pounds
    
    
    Is it any wonder we punters are subjected to such outrageously inflated
    premiums.......
    
    
    Nev.
    

    
    Go back to 'em and query why your premiums are at the level they are
    when they waste cash like that...
    
    Chris.

I read a report in the Independent at the weekend on motoring insurance
premiums.

One statement actually said that premiums were actually raised a certain
percentage because of the increased competition between insurance companies !

The reason for this was that, on average, only one in every 10 quotes to
prospective customers ends up with an actual motoring policy being issued. The
argument being that the actual punters accepting the insurance quotes, pay for
all the quotes that fail to be taken up.

:-o

    I'm sure I remember reading something recently about how insurance
    companies can no longer insist on you using a 'recommended repairer',
    and that they have to actually tell you that you can use another
    repairer, if you wish. 
    
    Graham

    I wasn't too bothered about who did the repair as long as it was to an
    acceptable standard as it was the 3rd party's insurance that was
    paying.  What amazed me was that they elected to spend 450 pounds more
    on the repair than the quotes I had submitted.
    
    
    Nev

> What amazed me was that they elected to spend 450 pounds more
>    on the repair than the quotes I had submitted.

That could be possible if they discovered more damage once they started
repairing the car.  However, if the repair sheet only lists the items on the
quote, then something is wrong...

Dave

    I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra on premiums if you get a good deal
    when you make a claim. My wife's car has just been written off (through
    no fault of her own - the police are doing the other driver for
    careless driving) and the amount they have offered her is about �1,000
    short of what it will actually cost us to replace the car with one of
    the same model, year and mileage. This is the second offer they came
    back with, after we rejected the first. Most people we've spoken to
    (garages, solicitors, friend who used to work at a brokers) tell us
    this is pretty much standard behaviour for any insurance company.
    Glass's guide shows the car at what they've now offered us, but you
    can't actually buy one for that! Furthermore, they will only pay for a
    hire car for 1 week after they make the offer. They consider 1 week to
    be enough time to find and buy a replacement car (after coming up with
    the grand shortfall of course). 
    
    Tony I
                                    

    Tony,
    
    I've been through this scenario a couple of times - both with 2.8i
    Capri's - in both cases the offer they came up with was well short of
    the replacement value. What I did was to point this out them in a
    letter (which had very little effect), finally I said if they weren't
    going to increase the offer then I wanted the car back as well. This
    resulted (in both cases) of �200 being knocked of the offer, which I
    could get by selling two of the tyres. The first one of the two Capris
    I kept, as it was repairable, the second I have stripped for spares and
    made a few hundred quid back selling the bits I don't need two of.
    
    not an ideal solution I know, but when you consider that they will sell
    your wifes car to breakers yard to off-set the pay-out to you it makes
    any offer they've made you even worse.
    
    Graham

    Graham, 
    
    thanks for that idea, it's worth thinking about. 
          
    However the biggest problem I would have with doing that is that the
    car has been taken away to 'storage' somewhere. It's not drivable so I
    would have to find a way of trailering it home. Then I don't really
    have anywhere to put it!
    
    I think we'll end up just putting up with it, like everyone else seems
    to!
    
    Tony I

Repair quotes don't normally include labour costs - just a +labour 
entry.

Could this explain the discrepancy ?

Alan

    Tony,
    
    if it's 'in storage' it'll be in the Isurance compound at a breaker's or
    recoverer's. If you take the money from the Insurance company, the
    recoverer or breaker or perhaps a salvage yard, will buy the wreck from
    the Insurance company and then either repair it, sell it complete, or
    strip it for parts. What you could do is ask where it is now, and find out
    how much they'll pay you for it - look in Autotrader or Exchange & Mart
    for an idea of how much these things fetch, you'll be surprised ! 
    
    I've recently been told of a Brooklands Capri in a salvage yard, low
    mileage, rear offside damage only (which in reality means it should be
    re-shelled, to keep it mint) for �2500. The guy who wrote it it off
    prbably got less than half of that from the insurers, whereas in the
    'real' world it would cost �3 - 4k to replace.
    
    Graham

    re: .162
    
    >careless driving) and the amount they have offered her is about �1,000
    >short of what it will actually cost us to replace the car with one of
    >the same model, year and mileage. This is the second offer they came
    >back with, after we rejected the first.
    
    Tony 
    
    A few thoughts not even advice really.
    
    Perhaps they could find you a replacement car? As they're only offering
    you trade price and you, Joe Punter, don't have access to trade
    channels how do they reasonably expect to replace you car at main
    dealer prices? Even private sales expect more than trade value.
    
    I really think its about time insurance companies woke up to the fact
    that trade prices of out of order. Some (smaller) companies don't even
    offer replacement cars if they're written off in the first year.
                                     
    If all else fails I'd write to the Chairman stating the above and
    politely point out their currents tatics will cost them any further
    business unless they make a fairer settlement. I'd be specific and say
    what you what "not �1,500 but �2,500 etc etc." 
    
    Try statements such as "if you take the obvious course of action open
    to you and ignore these comments then I will have no alternative other
    than to see if this matter warrents media attention". 
    
    Dave  
    
    
    
     

    Hi Dave,
    
    It did cross my mind to ask them to find us an exact replacement,
    but then when you think about it, a second hand car is really something
    you want to choose for yourself. What we did do was send details of a
    number of cars nearly identical to ours from the Auto trader and the
    local Ford dealer, basically saying we want to be given enough to buy
    one of these. The trouble is the insurance company hides behind the
    report of the valuer, who seemed to work for a different company. All
    they are tasked to do it seems is report what the car would fetch if we
    sold it.
    
    We will be writing to the manager of the insurance company,  maybe if
    everyone complains they might do something about it. The problem is
    that most people I speak to that have been through this seem to have
    the same experience. I don't think our insurance company is any better
    or worse than any other in this respect. In fact apart from the bottom
    line amount they're giving us we're quite happy with the way they've
    dealt with the claim. 
    
    What we've decided to do is put the money towards a much better car, so
    that at least we feel like we're getting something for the money it's
    costing us. To spend out a grand and just end up with the same car
    would have been too depressing!
    
    cheers, 
    
    Tony I

    Stretch,

	220 quid seems reasonable to me too. I have two cars, bith cost me about
	220 quid, one is a c reg 2.5litre gti turbo, the other a g reg 1.4 orion.
	
	I get my insurance through Bennetts in Coventry (not part of the 
	Bennetts chain). Their quotes where were almost half the price of the
	direct line insurers.
	
	If you're interested I'll see if I can dig the phone numbers out.

R.

    Thanks for the advice, I've got so hacked off with this that I've
    gone back to Endsleigh (�220). 
    
    The thing that really hacks me off is that I was paying �160 last year
    for, what is effectively, an older reg of my current car. Even taking
    into account the change of details I would expect a slight rise, not �65!!!
    
    
    
    			
    				Stretch.  
    
    PS - If you can find the numbers I will add them to my list for next
    years bout of calls.

    Stretch,
    
    if it's not already too late why not try the Owners Club ?
    
    Graham$ex_Manta_owner

    Graham,
    
    I think the guy who runs the club has moved as I have tried the listed
    phone number, and directory enquiries have no record of anyone of that
    name at the address. If I had thought about this a little earlier I
    would have written to him. I just wasn't expecting my insurance to
    rocket...at least Touchline gave me a little more warning than most. 
    
    
    
    			Stretch.