Conference napalm::musclecars

    Well after a discouraging search for a pre 71 fastback Mustang in need 
    of a good home I bought a Torino.   The new ride is a 70 and originally
    was a 302 car.  This car has been worked on quite a bit but still needs
    some serious TLC.  There is no rust whatsoever and it does have a few
    essential goodies; ie B&M ratchet shifter, Traction lock 9 inch with
    370 gearing, 2�" duals, a engine and a driver :-).
         The car seems to run well and should be able to dust the '71
    Stang  I just sold (maybe a future musclecar story in the making).
    I'll probably meet up with the lad this weekend so we'll see.
         If anyone has spotted any of these in a JY I'd appreciate the
    lead as I will be needing a few items.
    
    
                     Dean
    

    Tom,
    
         I tried repeatedly to reply but couldn't get through to you.
    The Torino is a coupe and is sporting a reworked 69 429.  It was 
    treated to all the standard stuff plus, dual ignition, Milodon
    10qt oil pan, 460 crank and pistons :-) efectively bumping the
    displacement to 460 ci.
         Well I'm in here does anyone know what what years/parts are
    interchangable with the Mustangs and Torinos...I have the old F. sway
    bar from my '71 and it looks like its the same as the CJ sway bar on
    the Torino now.  What I'm really getting at is will the rear bar be the
    same?
    
    
                            Dean

    re -.1
    
          should read dual point ignition....
    
    
    
                         Dean

    
    Dean,
    
    The node I'm on (FROSTY) is possessed. Send mail to AKOV13::TFISHER
    Your Torino sounds awesome, I've always had a thing for the 70-71's,
    particularly with 429's!!!!!
    
    Nice find - keep it on the road
    
    Tom

    RE. from the Ford small block note.
    
         Chris sounds like a nice car. I'd like to see it sometime.
    Mine is fitted with a 69 429 with 460 crank and rods bumping
    the displacement to 460 CI. It performs suprising well right 
    through to 5000 ( the highest I've revved it). Its got a Holley
    750 Vacuum sec., CJ guideplates and rockers and a few other goodies.
    It also gets � decent mileage considering the power source, around
    10-12 with the foot in. 
         The car is a medium blue w blue interior (bench seat but I have
    a pair of blue Mustang bucket seats). It has the factory hood scoop
    and the hidden headlight grille. There is no rust on the body and only
    89000 original miles. I know the last two owners, the most recent of
    which put in the 460 and rebuilt the front suspension and upgraded to
    disc brakes. (I think from a Mustang, I can find out if you want to
    know).
         The car is a real ball to drive but its really not my style of
    transportation. I will most likely put it for sale in the spring and 
    head south in search of another Mustang. Rest assured though I will
    be driving it when the weather gets nicer at least until it sells.
    
                Dean

re: .5

Dean,
	What I like best about the Torino is so different looking.  I thought
about trying to get my hands on a late-60s Mustang, but they're too common
for my taste.

	Nothing feels better than tooling around town and have heads
turn to look.  The Mustang and Ford Buyers Guide seems to have a fairly
good selection of '70 and '71 Torinos for parts, etc. and there's a
dealer in PA, I believe, that specializes in Torino NOS parts and used
items.

	I'm at ZKO, in Nashua. Where are you?  Maybe we can hook up
this spring.

Chris

    
    
     Hey,
    
     I just bought a '69 Torino 4 door with a 302 V2.  The car is okay, I
    bought it so that my brother could go to the car shows with me.  it 
    is different Only because most of the Torino's Rotted out Big time.
    
     I also have the '69 Mustang, which I have been Winning many trophies
    with over the Last Summer...The car is appraised at Big $$ .  I love
    the Style of the '69 Mustang....Perhaps becuase of the Major changes
    that FORD did that year to the Mustang Line.
    
    /Bob
    
     Hey Dean...I'll take the 428 off your hands... :-)
    

    
    Chris,
    
         I like being different too thats what first atttracted me to this
    car. Then one ride later I was ready to purchase...the sound of that
    big 460 burbling through 2� duals was just a bit to much for me. Not
    to mention the *mild* chirp of the tires at anything over � throttle
    on the 1-2 shift. But alas and alack I like a bit of handling to and 
    the Torino w BB will never handle as well as I want so set mode=search. 
         I work in Hudson Ma and live in Baldwinville (next to Gardner Ma.)
    Maybe we can meet at a Carbuffs Confab sometime...the spring one is 
    probably only a month or two away.
         Re 428 Bob its a 429 bumped to a 460 in the car.
         I really can't stand it when you're cruising in your (insert fav
    orite muscle car here) and then some ube pulls up in one the same/very 
    similar. Happened to me once in the Mustang some guy from NY. Happens
    to my buddy regularly in his red Camaro though. So I hope to find maybe
    a 67 Fastback in decent shape ...we'll see if not I'll just keep the
    Torino.
    
    
                Dean

    Whoops forgot to ask last reply Chris what size tires do you
    have on your Torino.
    
         Dean
    
    

In '71, Ford produced two types of power steering gear.  One type is the
external power (non-integral) steering gear, the other is the integral
power steering gear.

My Torino has the non-integral power steering gear and I'd like to convert
it to use the integral power steering gear.

Under normal circumstances, I wouldn't care, however, I'm running headers
and need to use an extender bracket to lower the power cylinder enough
to clear the tubes.

The original bracket, of cast iron, was bolted to the frame with 2 3/8" clinch
nuts and one bolt thru the frame to add stability.  The cylinder bolted
to that bracket with a rubber-bushed arrangement much like a shock
absorber attachment, positioning the cylinder about 1-1/2"  away from the frame.

The new bracket drops the cylinder mounting point by almost 5".  Besides
reducing ground clearance, this also gives the cylinder a longer lever
arm to work against the frame with.  I'm concerned about the long term
effects of the tortion working against the frame and bracket  and wish
to come up with a better solution.

My question is this:  Would the integral steering gear from, say, a '72 or
later mid-sized body, fit reasonably well?  I am aware that things like
pittman arms, center links, etc, may need replacing as well.

Chris

re: .8, .9

Dean,
	Handling was not the mid-sized Ford's forte, that's for sure. I
suspect that one could stiffen things up a bit, but I doubt you could
ever get rid of the famous  'Rock N' Roll' 'round the corners.  Mine
leans a bit and scrubs the tires some (215/75SR14s).  What I noticed
most was how sensitive the front end is to engine weight.  I pulled
the iron manifold and replaced it with  an aluminimum one and it seems
lighter now.  Maybe it's just me.  Probably is.

	The springs are tired in the back end, and there's a pair of
air shocks helping to keep my ass from dragging.  So many things to do
and so little time...

Chris

    I need some advice from the Ford experts out there. This weekend I am
    going to look at a '70 Torino GT for a project car. What should I be on
    the lookout for as far as rust areas. I know the Mustang has a problem
    in the shock tower area, does the Torino share this problem? Also, what
    makes a GT a GT? The car has all the right trim, and has the bucket
    seat interior and console with floor shifter, but has drum brakes up
    front, is this correct? The car also has a 2 BBL 302 and C4 tranny, the
    current owner "thinks" it was a big block car, but is not sure. Did a
    GT come with a 302? I will probably buy the car anyway, as it looks to
    be in very good shape, it has been garaged for 5+ years, and the owner
    has lost storage and must sell fast. If I do get it, I plan to drop in
    a 429 or 460 and a C6, has anyone gone from a small block to a big
    block, and if so what should I expect. 
     This will be the first Ford resto project I have tried, if it was a
    Chevy I would know what to expect, but I don't know the Fords well
    enough yet. I have been debating about getting another Camaro or
    Chevelle, but they are so commen that I want to try something
    different, and I like the looks of the Torino. Any advice would be
    appreciated.
                                                           John M.
     

    John,
    
      This doesn't happen to be the orange one in Nashua? If so I think
    Tom Fisher looked at it last fall.
    
    Chris

    
    John,
    
    	I don't believe you mentioned what year. The original engine
    	displacement can be determined from the VIN over the drivers
    	side dash. It's the 3'rd letter I believe, or at least it's
    	the first alpha character that is not an "F".  For a 69/70
    	a "R" or a "Q" would mean 428. A "S" is a 390. I believe R and
    	Q mean 429 for 71/72.
    
    
    				- A.J.

    RE last 2
     The car is located in Rhode Island, and is a 1970. It is also black
    with a red interior, so it is not the same one mentioned in .13. I will
    check the VIN for the codes when I see the car, but I doubt it is a
    former big block. Of course, if it is in good enough shape, it won't
    matter. 
                                                            John M.
    

    
    John,
    
    If the car is a `70, engine choices were 302 2v, 351c 2v, 351c 4v,
    429 4v (360 HP) 429 CJ 4v (370 HP) and the 429 CJ 4v Ram-air (375 HP)
    
    The GT was primarily a sports appearance package comprising 14' wheels
    with stainless hubcaps and trim rings, honeycomb tail panel,
    non-functional hoodscoop (which obviously changed with shaker equipped
    351c 4v and 429 CJ) GT emblems, and I believe, bucket seats.  Most
    buyers who elected the 429's stepped up to the Torino Cobra model which
    offered the 351c 4v as standard with the three 429's optional. If this
    car is indeed a 429 car, it is a worthwhile purchase.  I think all
    Torinos got the 9" differential.
    
    Check it out, and let us know - nice looking car regardless of
    powertrain!
    
    Tom

    
    John,
    
    Sorry, I forgot to answer your question in its entirety.  Like all
    unit bodied Fords, look for rust in the torque boxes (just behind the
    front wheels)  This is a main structural component and if badly rusted
    must be replaced at significant expense.  Also, look at the front frame
    rails especially under the upper control arms. Theres a little lip
    there which is prone to collecting dirt and moisture.  If this area is
    rusted, you loose structural integrity of the shock towers.  Examine
    the shock towers themselves, especially at the upper control arm
    mounts.  look for any evidence of metal fatigue  and stress cracks. 
    Look at the top of the inner fender aprons (where the hood bumpers are)
    and look for excessive rust.  Most Fords do get rusty up there.
    Examine the battery box  - is it rusted along with the inner apron?
    On the rear frame rails look for rust particularly where the shackles
    mount.
     
    The Ford suspension design puts undue stress on upper ball joints and
    control arm bushings,  check for wear.
    
    Other than that, look for the usual.  Parts are hard to come by for
    these cars, not like Mustang/Camaro etc.
    
    
    Tom

John,
	The '70 and '71s shared a lot of parts and there's the Ford Buyer's
Guide that lists a fair number of sources for Torinos.  I've gotten parts
from Auto Krafters (mostly soft goods) and their latest catalog even carries
rebuilt steering boxes. Their address:

Auto Krafters, Inc.
South Main Street, P.O. Box 8
Broadway, VA 22815
(703)896-6412
Toll-free orders	: 1-800-228-7346
FAX number		: 1-703-896-6412
Customer service 	: 1-703-869-5910
Mon-Fri	8AM-8PM, Sat 10AM-2PM

Goldcoast Performance carries suspension parts as does Kanter Auto.  Their
addresses are:

Goldcoast Performance, Inc.
Dept. MF
20251 Prairie St.
Chatsworth, CA 91311
(818)349-0576

Kanter Auto Products
76 Munroe St.
Boonton, NJ 07005
(201)334-9575
(800)526-1096 (orders)
Suspensions, brake & engine parts, etc.

And for the really wierd parts, you can try:

Obsolete Ford Parts, Inc.
6601 S. Shields
Oklahoma City, OK 73149
(405)631-3933
Parts for big Fords, Fairlanes and T-Birds.

Body parts, original and repros can be obtained from:

Autobody Specialties
Rt. 66
P.O. Box 455
Middlefield, CT 06455
(203)346-4989
Reproduction and original body parts
for FoMoCo, GM & ChryCo

So, I think with this list, you can pretty much build a Torino from the
ground up!   ;-)

Chris

    Thanks everyone for the replys, it will make the search a lot easier. I
    am looking at another '70 GT tonight, it has a 351W and front disc
    brakes, so it might be the one! I will look at the other one Friday
    night as Rhode Island is a 1.5 hour drive from home. At any rate I will
    keep all informed of my project car search. 
                                              John M.
                                           (future Ford owner?)
    

    
    Do not, repeat DO NOT, order parts from any aftermarket vendor
    without doing your homework.  In collecting parts to finish my
    `69 Cougar I have discovered about 80% of what I needed is still
    available new through Ford.  I have the parts manuals for the Torino
    and would be more than happy to do some research if you supply a list
    of needed parts.  I guarantee substantial savings.
    
    Always happy to help out a Ford guy (hey, with the parts interchange 
    nightmares Ford subjects us to, we need all the help we can get!!!)
    
    Tom 

    Well I went and did it! I looked at the Torino GT in Cambridge and
    bought it.  Here is the story.  Its a 70 GT, originally a 302 car, now
    a 351. It is from Arizona, and has NO frame or body rot at all, none. I
    looked everywhere and could not find any filler or rust, except on the
    left rear quarter where it has a dent and surface rust. The interior is
    rough, some tears and it needs a new carpet. The floors are excellant.
    The previous owner switched from a floor shifter to a column shifter
    (he wanted tilt, sheesh) but the old shifter is in the trunk. The car
    has front disc brakes, power steering, AC (it doesent work, but all the
    parts are there) a C6, and a non-posi rear. It needs tires, a water
    pump, and rear springs to be drivable. The engine was rebuilt 5000
    miles ago, and there is a 6 month old dual exhaust with Blackjack 
    headers. It is currently Dukes of Hazzard orange (yuck) but was
    originally Grabber Blue.  The current owner was very desperate to sell,
    he needs $900. by next week or he goes to jail for non-support. So,
    $900. changed hands and the car gets towed home Friday. 
     The car in RI turned out to be an original 302 car. I called the owner
    and asked about the VIN, none of the numbers matched for a big block.
    and a friend of mine who knows Fords says that no big block came
    through without front discs, which this car did not have. It also had a
    rot hole in the floor. 
     I will do an inventory on the car when I get it home, to see what I
    will need. Thanks for the info, Tom, I will send you a note when I
    figure everything out. If anyone can tell me where to look for the
    engine ID number I will try and find out exactly what it is. 
     Well, thats about all for now, I will post more information after this
    weekend. It feels great to have a project car again!
                                                       John M.
     

    
    John,
    
    Congrats!!!!  Nice find at a seemingly nice price.  Is the interior
    white by chance?  I had a friend from Arlington years back that sold
    a `70 GT (orange) to a kid in Cambridge or Somerville.  At the time it
    was a 351c 2v with a column shifted C-6....
    
    The motor data will be found in one of two places, on an aluminum tag
    bolted to the ignition coil bracket or on a sticker on the passenger
    valve cover.  I think in 1970 or so Ford switched over to the valve
    cover location, but not 100% sure.  Read the small block Ford note
    regarding visual differences between the 351w and 351c.  If you are in
    need of cleveland engine parts don't sweat it - I know of lots of
    clevelands in local Junkyards.
    
    John, I'll be honest with you - Fords can be exasperating to work with
    so adjust your GM oriented parts interchange mentality.  However, with
    a little practice you'll get the hang of it.  I look forward to helping
    out in any way possible.  Let me know if you need help getting the car
    home - I can be reached at DTN 223-7048
    
    Tom 

    
    
     I saw a FORD Falcon this week, and the guy wants $700. Bucks.  The
    car from far doesn't seem bad, except for one fender which is Blue, the
    car is White.
    
     I have'nt stopped by to really look at the car.  I will this weekend,
    my Question is ...Is this Price fair...or is he asking too much ?
    
     

    
    It all depends - what year?  2 door?  Six or eight cylinder?
    Futura?  Sprint? Panel/Delivery? Ranchero? We need more details!
    
    Jim Koehler is the resident Falcon expert in this forum - perhaps
    he can lend an opinion.
    
    In the heirarchy of Falcons, `63 Sprint V-8 ragtops fetch the most,
    particularly with manual trannies.  The `63 Sprint V-8 sportsroofs are
    next.  In general all V-8 equipped Falcon 2-doors are desireable, made
    more so by ragtops, or Sprint/Futura trim options.  Of course, if the
    car is one of the ULTRA RARE `70 (Torino Bodied) 429 SCJ's you are
    talking mega valuable!
             
    Tom

    re.23 Try to get the year and any info you can about the Falcon.
    Like Tom said, the 63 with a V8 are fetching the higher amounts of
    money. I have a 64 convt. 6 auto that could fetch in the 2k+ range
    and a couple of others that I might get alittle more for..(but they are
    not 4 sale, yet) I did sell a 64 convt. and 64 fastback for some good
    coins not too long ago. So even if it is a 60-63 6 auto and is still
    somewhat solid, $700 might not be too bad.
    keep us posted.
    
    The Mad Weldor....Jim

    
    
     The Falcon is a 2 door I think, and the Model year is 1960.  Will look
    at it this weekend.
    
    

1960 was the first year for Falcons. I don't think they made a pick up
that year. No V8's, and the base 6 was 144 cubes. Not sure if the 170 cube
was an option. 

    Yup, just a basic model. An 80 hp. inline six 144 cu.in. The 170
    101 hp. was offered in 61. The Ranchero was resurected in 61 on the
    Falcon station wagon platform. I remember seeing a 60 Ranchero at a 
    auto show but found out that is was a sheetmetal change, and it was
    really a 61. 
    
    The Mad Weldor....Jim

    
    I had a friend with a 144 CID Falcon.  What a SLUG!
    Still a nice looking car nevertheless.
    
    John - How are you making out with the Torino?  
    
    Tom

    
     Well, I checked the car out !
    
      it is a '64 not a '60.  it has a 200 CID Engine.  White car with
    Red interior.  Interior is in excellent shape, except for the original
    radio being replaced with an audioVox.
    
     Talked to the people who are letting the Owner store his car on their
    property, she would not give me the owners Phone Number !  The keys wer
    in the ignition, and she said me and My Girl could take it for a
    Ride...Well, I could'nt get out of the Mud...and it was on Empty !
    
     However, the car did start up without primmingg the accelerator pedal,
    the car at one time had been Done over...Trunk,Body, and Interior
    panels, they did an Amateur restoration.  There is some bondo, but
    not much...
    
     The car has a green fender on it, which is not the correct fender with
    chrome molding, So it needs a New front fender, needs a front Grill, an
    exhaust, battery tray, shocks, and possibly a new paint job within the
    next year or so.
    
     I don't think this car is worth the $700.00  he's asking, Plus he
    didn't even Call me yet !  I'll offer $350.00 , and that's it !
    
    /Bob
    

    If you can get it for under five it wouldn't be a bad deal.
    
    The Mad Weldor....Jim
    
    the 64 is one of my favorites. up untill two weeks ago I owned 4 of
    them.

    Well, after a false start Saturday due to weather, and a real bad cold
    on my part, I got the Torino home Monday. Here is what I have. The car
    is an original Arizona car, sold to an Air Force officer from Maine who
    drove it home in '84, it sat in a garage untill 88, when he sold it to
    the previous owner. The car has a 351, definately a Windsor, but I can't
    find any tags or labels, has Ford ever heard of stamped numbers?  It
    has a C4 tranny, and a white and black interior. A friend of mine
    flatbedded it home, he was amazed by the lack of rust on this car, it
    is unheard of for a Ford of this vintage. One thing I learned getting
    it home, these things are hard to back up! Talk about blind spots! The
    main problems appear to be a screwed-up shift linkage, there is
    currently a column shifter in the car, and it does not work correctly.
    I have the old floor shifter, and I think I can rebuild it, but I don't
    have the floor shift linkage. The tranny also has a leak, possibly the
    rear seal. How difficult are these to replace on a C4?  Other than
    that, the car needs a water pump and battery to be roadworthy. I
    sprayed the engine bay and undercarriage with engine degreaser and
    cleaned it. The car was not undercoated, but the metal is perfect. I
    know I keep saying that, but you just don't find that many 22 year old
    cars, especially Fords, around here without body rot. 
     Thanks to everyone who sent advice, and as the rebuild progresses I
    will comment, and ask for more advice (lots and lots of advice).
                                                           John M.
         

    
    John,
    
    Your Windsor will have ID numbers cast into the various components.
    On the intake, look between the distributor and carb on one of the
    runners.  The heads should have cast numbers under the valve cover
    reading "351"  (I think)  Not sure where the block numbers are found.
    If it's a `69 or `70 Windsor, hang on to it, particularly if it's a 4v 
    motor.  The heads are fairly desireable.
    
    Tom

    
    
     Are the VIN codes on the Torino's the Same as the Mustang ?  I looked
    at my VIN tag...and didn't make too much sense to me. !@#$@!$
    
      Does anyone have the breakDown.  Thanks !
    
    /Bob
    

I've the shop manuals for a '71 Torino.

Post the number and I'll try to decode it.

Chris

    
    Ford VINs are very simple;
    
    I'll use my Cougar as a example; 9F91R550854
    
    Character 1     = model year (1969 in this example)
    Character 2     = Assembly plant (Dearborn MI in this case)
    Characters 3-4  = Body type code (2 door coupe in this case)
    Character 5     = Engine (428CJ 4v Ram-air in this case)
    Characters 6-11 = Consecutive unit number, beginning with 500001
    
    Other important data (transmission code, axle code, paint code,
    District Sales Code, and trim code will be found on the driver's door
    tag)
    
    The color of the door tag has some significance.  Gray tags signify
    vehicle was originally painted in laquer, a black tag, enamel.
    
    If you provide the data, I can help.
    
    Tom                    
    

    Hi all,
     If anyone can decode the following VIN, I would be most gratefull.
    0A35F1648837
     The Torino has been cleaned off and checked out, so far so good. I
    have been spraying the seat bolts with WD-40 in preperation to pulling
    them out. The floor shifter that came in the trunk (the previous owner
    could not fix it in the three years he owned it) has been fixed. All it
    needed was a teardown, clean, lube and reassembly. I will be hitting a
    local junkyard Friday to try and find a floor shift linkage, supposedly
    a linkage from a 71-73 Cougar or Mustang will fit, we shall see. I need
    a battery tray (OK so something is rusty!), does anyone know if a
    Mustang one will fit?  Well, thats it for now.
                                                               John M.
    
                           

    RE. 37
    
      JOHN,  Are you familar with Tosey's Mustang Farm in Taunton ????
      They are right off of Rt. 495.  There phone number is in the book.
      
      FYI, from what I saw at a recent trip there, they have lots of 
      parts/stuff that would suit your needs.
    
      Hope this helps, David 

    
    John,
    
    Without my manuals to go by I can only tell you the car is;
    
    1) a 1970 (thus 0 in the 1st VIN spot)
    2) Built in assembly plant "A" 
    3) Body style 35, (which I assume means GT Sportsroof)
    4) Engine was originally a 351c 2v, factory rated at 250 BHP.
    5) Your Torino was probably the 48,837th unit built in 1970
    
    It seems Ford modified the VIN scheme in 1970, as your VIN has an
    additional character (the "1") preceding the consecutive unit #. 
    Probably some type of control character.
    
    I will verify the plant code and body code tonight.  Perhaps you can
    supply the data from your door tag as well - then I can give you data
    on the axle ratio, transmission, paint code, and trim code.  Given the
    car was originally from AZ, the DSO code should support this.  I
    wouldn't be suprised if the plant code turned out to be San Jose,
    California - I know San Jose was a Cougar plant as well for west of the
    Mississippi DSO vehicles.
    
    Tom

    re .37 .39 
    
    F engine code is a 302 2V.
    
                      JL

    
    Jim,
    
    Ouch, a little morning brain fade - it's H for the 351 2v, right?
    
    Need more coffee!
    
    Tom

    RE-last 3
     David, I have heard of Tosy's Mustang Farm, but have never been there.
    How are they price-wise? Do they have a yard you can walk through, or
    do you have to tell them what you want and they get it for you?
     Tom and Jim, thanks for the VIN info, unfortunately the door sticker
    is gone, apparently the door latch area needed some repairs in the past
    and the sticker got ruined. Tom, I sent you a mail message last week,
    did you recieve it? Let me know, if you did not I will re send it.
                                                            John M.
    

    .42, 
    
      John,  I have only been there once.  They do let you walk thru
    its a fairly big yard,  but like anywhere else they also want to
    know what your looking for.  Prices, not too sure, it depends on 
    how bad you want what you find I guess.    
     
      Its a very interesting place, like a walk back in time.  Watch
    out for the goose at the entrance, they seem to love snapping at
    your butt.
    
     Enjoy, David 

    John,
    
         I was just at Toseys over the weekend. More accurately they are
    located on rt 1A in Wrentham. Take a left on 1A if you come from 495 
    south. They are about � mile from 495. As far as their prices I don't know 
    how they are for parts but their car prices appear to be resonable EX. 
    66 fastback V8 mostly there but in need of total resto $800. They have 
    two coupes both 68s out front now and a 65? galaxie too. They 
    have let me wander through their yard before without complaint. They
    are not a high bucks outfit and I think their prices reflect that.
         I don't know thier phone number off hand but if you look in 
    Auto hunter they usually list a Stang or two with a Wrentham number.
    
           
    
                     Dean

    
    John,
    
    Yes I did get your message, did I forget to reply?  Man I must 
    be losing it!!
    Without the door tag there's still hope of learning a thing or two
    about your Ford.  On the rear end there should be an aluminum tag 
    attached to the third member.  It will have a codes on it that follows
    this format;
    
    WXX-X  This code will tell;
    
    o Ring and pinion ratio
    o Vehicle make
    o Ring gear size (8", 9", etc)
    o Axle spline type (28,31)
    o Bearing type  
    
    Below this code you will also find the ring and pinion ratio which will 
    read (for example)
    
    3.00  For a 3.00 non-locking
    3L00  For a 3.00 locking
    
    Also on the tag will be your date code and plant code.
    
    All this talk about "Nodular" rear ends?  Forget what you have read.
    If the third member has a large "N" weld beaded on it, it means the
    third member was a Ford service replacement.  It doesn't mean you have 
    some rare Ford ultra performance piece as some of the self-professed
    Ford "experts" would have us believe!
    
    I'd love to see the car, where do you live John?
    
    Tom
    
    
    Let me know what the code reads and we can ID your differential.

    
    
    Tom,
    	you forgot to mention the best place to get info. Unless
    	the rug has been out of the car, which is rare, your build sheet
    	should be somewhere underneath. Becareful when you pull the 
    	rug, they are usually fairly brittle.
    
    	- A.J.

    Re last few,
     I will have to check out Toseys soon, it sounds like it could be a
    great place to shop. I plan on pulling out the seats and carpet this
    weekend, so I will look for the build sheet, thanks for the pointer. I
    will check the diff for the tag, but I doubt its there, I tried to find
    the tags on the carb and the coil bracket and they are both missing. 
     Tom, I will resend the message, I live in Malden Ma, to the out of
    Mass noters, that is a town about 10 minutes north of Boston.
     This notes file is a great way of passing information on to others,
    thanks to everyone and keep it up.
                                                         John M.
    

    re. 47.
    
      John,  On my '67 Mercury, I recently found the build sheet under
    the front seat between the cushion and the springs.  Look carefully
    and if its there, remove it carefully.  If your taking ou the seats
    soon, it'll be a lot eaiser.
    
      The next time I get to my parents in Everett with my '67, I let you
    know and look you up.
    
      David  

    Re-1
     Thanks, Dave, I had heard about the build sheet being stuck in the
    back seat, but not the front. I am always happy to meet fellow
    musclecar fans, so look me up, my number is listed in the book. I live
    off of rt 1 and 99, Everett is right down the street.
                                                             John M.
    

    Well I did not get time to pull the seats this weekend, but I did learn
    a few things. After cleaning the engine off with some degreaser, I
    found the aluminum tag on the coil bracket. The tag reads as follows..
    _________________________
    | 351  W         70   5 |
    | H19           K205-A  |
    |_______________________|
     
    I figure the 351 W is for 351 Windsor, and the 70 means its a 70 model
    year engine, as to the rest, if someone can decode it, please do.
    
    I also found the tag on the differential, so if Tom wants to crack it
    here it is..
    ________________________
    |DW-B             9LC  |
    |008            825A   |
    |______________________|
     The first line might be DW-8, its kind of hard to tell due to its
    position, and dirt. 
     I also heard of a place that might be a good source for parts, A and H
    used auto parts (junkyard) in Salem Ma. A freind has been there, and he
    says they have many old cars on the lot, he just got some parts for a
    70 Chevelle, and saw some older Ford Falcons while he was there. I plan
    on checking them out next weekend.
                                                     John M.
    

    
    John, 
    
    To summarize what we now now about your Torino;
    
    It was assembled at Ford's Atlanta, GA. Plant
    It has an 8", non-locking (open) differential with a 3.00 ring and
    pinion
    It was originally a 302 2v 
    Body series 35 equates to 1970 Torino/Fairlane 2 door sportsroof
    (fastback)
    Body type code is unknown (a more specific sub-set of body series) but
    I would presume it is 63F designating Torino GT
    
    I am still looking up the shift linkage data, will post it later.
    
    Tom

    Thanks Tom, did you find out anything about the engine codes?  I am
    curious what it came out of.  
                                                           John M.
    

    
    John,
    
    Your tag will only tell you the engine displacement, mfg plant, date
    of manufacture, and revision level (for ECO's).  You do indeed have 
    a 351 Windsor (the W denotes the Windsor, Ontario plant)
    
    I really couldn't tell you what vehicle it originally was installed in.
    
    Tom

    Made a little progress this weekend, mainly in the parts search. I am
    looking for a Holly 600 carb and Edelbrock Performer intake for my 351W. 
    Indy Auto Parts in Peabody is having a great sale for the month of April, 
    a Holly 600CFM single feed, single pump, vac. secondaries is only $135.00
    or $155.00 with electric choke. The intake is $185.00, I may try to
    find one in the Want Ads or a swap meet rather than spend that for an
    intake, its not like they have moving parts or anything. They also had
    front and rear sway bars for the Torino, 1,125" front for $140.00 and
    3/4" rear for $119.00. If anyone has a four-barrel intake for the 351W
    that they want to sell, let me know.
     Tom, did you have any luck looking up the shifter cable part#s etc?
                                                              John M.
     

    John,
    
     Tom is in Tokyo for 5 weeks, won't be back until May 9th. He may not
    have been able to find out your info before he left.
    
    Chris

    Thanks Chris, that explains why I didn't hear from him.
                                                       John M.
    

< ESKIMO::MANUELE �ˤ��Ρ��� 73.56 >
                                  -< Ah, So! >-

    Thanks Chris, that explains why I didn't hear from him.
                                                       John M.

Hello Gentlemen,

I am here - had to get my daily fix!  John, go for the Eddy
performer intake, its a good one for your windsor.  If you
have an urge for a factory cast iron dual plane I may be able
to help on my return.

Tom    

    Greetings to Tom in the land of the rising sun.
     Thanks on the intake, I may take you up on it, but I will probably go
    with the aluminum Edelbrock, any weight savings on a beast like this
    can't hurt. One question, is the 302 intake the same as the 351 W
    intake, or am I letting my Chevy interchange bias show again?
                                                  John M.
    

A 302W intakes and 351W intakes are not interchangable.  This is due to the 351W
having a 1 inch higher deck height.

Mark

    Thanks Mark.
    

    FWIW. The distributors/crank/rods/pistons don't either. Although
    heads/cams/w.p. and bellhousings do. There are some rare exceptions
    to this too! AKA old 289's with the five bolt BH.
    
    Re

    Well, I made a little progress over the weekend. I went to a salvage
    yard in Salem that had a "70 Torino Cobra" in the yard. I found a '71
    Torino fastback with a straight six and no options at all. I could not
    find a thing worth taking. But I did sort out a little of my shifter
    problem, it seem that when the previous owner put in the steering
    column, he misaligned the linkage. When the shifter is in park, the
    trans. is in reverse, and all the other positions are off also. The car
    has to be started in reverse or drive due to the neutral safety switch,
    so I will attempt to remedy this ASAP. I need a shifter cable to hook
    up the floor shifter, so I will attempt to find one at the Ford dealer,
    I figure its worth a try. Is anyone going to the fleamarket in Shirly
    this weekend? I am thinking of going, but wonder if there will be many
    Ford parts, anyone know?
                                                           John M.
    

    I forgot to add a few questions to my last note. Does anyone know how
    the inside of the trunk is supposed to be finished? My car cussently
    has the inside finished in body color paint. Is this correct, or is it
    supposed to have spatter paint or some other color? Also is there a
    trunk mat for these cars, the floor of the trunk is the top of the gas
    tank, is there supposed to be a cover for this?  Thanks in advance for
    any info. 
                                           John M.
    

    RE.62
    
      JOHN,   I spoke to the person handleing the phone calls for Sunday 
      at Shirley, BilL somethingorother.  He's a Ford man and from what he 
      said it sounded like there will be 180 booths for vendors mostly 
      Ford.  The rest will be a car show. If you go, look for me, I got 
      me and my Mercury going there.  $ 3.00 a person and car. 
    
    FYI, David  

    
    
    John,
    
     I have a '69 Torino 4 door Luxury Sedan.  I went to Stafford Springs
    this past weekend , and there were absolutley no Torino parts to be
    found...Nothing.  I asked many ford part sellers, and 4 people were
    also looking for Torino Parts.
    
     I did see my friends car at the show there...beautiful, Mint Green
    Torino Cobra...427 I think it had.
    
     Anyway, I believe the Trunk of the torino's were indeed painted Body
    color paint.  As far as the Trunk Mat...I do not really know because
    I do not have one in my car.
    
     /Bob
    
    

    John... et all
    
         Where in Shirley is this event ? This could be the only show
    I can attend this year due to softball conflicts. If it is feasible
    I will attend with my Torino. FWIW my trunk is body color and unpainted
    on top of the tank. 
    
          Dean

    I got the answer to -.1 in Carbuffs  note 8.244 I will try to
    make it there. Anyone else that goes I will have a blue 71 Torino
    coupe somewhat disassembled...
    
             Dean

    
    
    Re: -1
    
      That is correct...Trunck painted body color, except fot the Gas tank. 
    I assumed that no one would paint the top of the gas Tank, but I should
    have mentioned it...Thanks Dean.
    
      I'd attend the Show with my Mustang, but I really have to get the
    torino SandBlasted, and ready for Paint...not to mention Road Worthy.
    
      /Bob
    

    Thanks for the fast replies on my trunk question. This confirms what I
    was hoping was not true, the cars painted in the original color,
    orange (yuck). I am trying to find out if there is a trunk mat to covor
    the gas tank, it just looks unfinished the way it is. For those of you
    who have Torinos, I found out about a couple of car clubs that may be
    helpful. There is an American Fairlane and Torino club, located in Iowa
    or someplace out thataway, that is open to Fairlanes, Torinos,
    Rancheros and Montegos of the 1963-1971 era, and The New England
    Mustang and Ford club, located in North Attleboro Ma. If anyone wants
    the adresses, let me know and I will post them.
                                                           John M.
     

John,
	Please post them. Getting on another mailing list dedicated to FoMoCo
products is always useful.

On the trunk mat.  Mine's original and is a dark grey rubberized vinyl. The
wheelwells are covered with a thick cardboard material that has quickly
given away under any weight at all.  I believe the cardboard 'flooring'
was there just to support the trunk mat which goes from fender to fender,
and from rearmost to over the axle hump.


Chris

    I will post the club names and adresses tomorrow. Thanks for the trunk
    mat info. I had a little luck getting some parts this week, Ford still
    makes the battery tray, so I ordered one through York Ford. They don't
    make the floor shifter linkage anymore, nor the fan-shroud or wheel
    well chrome (the parts counterman laughed when I asked for the last
    one). I plan on going to Tosy's Mustang farm this weekend, has anyone
    been there recently, and if so did you see any Torinos or Montegos?
    If anyone happens to come across any of these parts, let me know!
    If any of the out of state noters finds any, I will pay to ship them.
                                                          John M.
    

John,
	Send me your mailstop and I put a copy of the aforementioned
magazine in there for you.  The rag's mostly mustangs, but there are
a fair number of mid-sized entries for full cars for sale as well
as places that offer NOS parts.  I seem to recall a fellow in the
mid-west  someplace that has these huge classifieds with tons of NOS
and used parts for 70-71 Torinos.

Chris

    Chris,
     Thanks a lot, my mailstop is HLO1-1/S04. The two clubs that I found
     out about are...
                        The Fairlane club of America
                        11 Lakeview Ave  RR 1
                        East Peoria  Il. 61611
        Approx. 950 members, Bimonthly newsletter, dues $20.00 a year
    
                     Mustang and Classic Ford club of New England
                         PO Box 963
                         North Attleboro Ma, 02761
        Approx. 350 members, Bimonthly magazine, dues $15.00 a year.
    
                                                    John M
    

    Chris, I got the mag. in the mail today, thanks a lot. I am already
    ordering several of the catalogs. 
     I called Tosy's to find out what hours they are open on Sat.
    (9:00-5:00) and ask a few questions. They seem very helpful so far,
    there are "at least 8 or 9 Torino's out back" so I will be heading down
    Saturday. They also said that the shifter linkage for my car is the
    same for 68-71 Torino's, 71-73 Mustangs and 71-73 Cougars. They have
    many of these parts in stock, so hopefully my search is nearing an end. 
     On the road by June!    (I hope)
                                                            John M.
    

Glad I could help.  I'd have sent a later issue, but I want to keep the
Project '47 articles in the most recent ones.  They're building a '47
Ford tudor and are documenting the work.

Good luck, and hope to see you and your project in June.


Chris

    I made it to Tosy's this weekend am I impressed. Wall to wall Mustangs!
    I managed to get the shift linkage out of a 71 Mach 1, after putting a
    floor jack through the frame and floor of a 71 Cougar. (a very rusty
    Cougar) I also found a leather wrapped shifter handle to replace my
    broken one, and a rubber shifter to floor seal from a 68 Fairlane. All
    this cost $15.00 so I am pleased. They seem very helpful, and I could
    have spent all day poking around. They had a 71 Mach 1 with its
    original Q-code 429 in very restorable condition. They are restoring it
    to sell, so don't bother trying to buy it. (my brother-in-law came with
    me and I had to drag him away from it, he kept saying "I want, I want"
    :^) )  All in all it was worth the trip, I will be going back in a few
    weeks to get a steering column and radiator shroud and possibly a set
    of bucket seats, mine need to be redone, and its cheaper to buy a good
    set and redye them. The only bad part was that there were only 4
    Torino's, 3 were 73 or up, and 1 was a 70 2 door coupe. There was a 70
    Montego and a couple of older Fairlanes though. 
                                                          John M.
    

Hi John,

Nice find - I've always heard that Tosy's was a crook but
apparently that's not the case.  Say, did you see any `69-70
Cougars?   If so, maybe I'll join you on my return from Tokyo.

Tom

    Hi Tom, hows Tokyo?
     There were quite a few Cougars, and I did see some 69-70's in fairly
    good shape.  There were even some 67-68's and 71-73's, including the
    one I put the hole in. I may take you up on that Windsor intake
    manifold when you get back, I hate to spend almost $200 for a piece of
    aluminum that never wears out, but I can't seem to find a used
    Edelbrock anywhere. 
                                                     John M.
    

    Tom,
    You back stateside yet? I enjoyed your "Japan updates", looking forward
    to the American versions!
    
    Ahhh, wait a minute, I remember your list of things you missed, and we
    weren't at the the top!  Say hi to Laura for me, and I assume we'll 
    hear from you when you get "caught up"?   8^)
    
    Rick

    Tom's in California until May 9th. He called me last Saturday from
    the airport in San Jose while waiting for Laura's flight to arrive 
    to say how good it felt to be back in the land of big blocks and
    Dunkin Donut's "Big Ones". Tom being himself is doing a little salvage
    yard searching while out there.
    
    Chris 

    
    
     Yo !
    
      I am in the process of detailing the under carrage of my '69
    Mustang.  My drive shaft has 3 bands of color at the rear of the
    shaft, approx about 1" wide.  Any reason for this ?  Is this shaft
    the "Original" ?  Did ford use color codes to determine sizes of the
     shafts ?
    
    
      I do not want to paint the drive shaft completly Black, until I find
    the answer out...Thanks !
    
    /Bob
    
    

    -1
     Yes, Ford did use color codes to denote different parts on the
    assembly line, most (if not all) manufacturers did. I have no idea what
    the codes may mean, however. 
     My Torino project has been moving slowly of late, due to installing a
    swing set and pool in my yard, and the rotten weather we get on
    weekends around here. I have made some progress, the floor shifter has
    been repaired and repainted, as has the center console. The seats, door
    panels and kick panels have been pulled, and I will be repairing and
    dying them soon. I have been working on the interior, as the body work
    is best done in slightly less wet weather (I do have the car in the
    garage, but it still damp in there) I have also started to unscramble
    the wiring from under the dash. The previous owner must have had a J.C.
    Whitney fetish, as I am removing a poorly installed delay wiper box and
    radio.  I painted the new waterpump this weekend, hope to install it
    next weekend, and have a Holly 600CFM 4-bbl (thanks Tom B.) but still
    need a 4-bbl intake. If Tom Fisher is back from Dai Nippon, I am
    interested in the factory one you have. Also I am making another trip to
    Tosy's Mustang Farm this Saturday, if Tom (or anyone else) wants to
    acompany me. Well its lunchtime (I just LOVE eating lunch at
    0300....NOT) so thats all for now.
                                                  John M.
    

    
    John,
    
    No can do on Tosy's this weekend. BUMMER.  
    
    About the paint codes on the driveshaft, yes, John is right,
    they are assembly codes for quick production line reference.  I will
    look up the paint code tonight and report tomorrow,
    
    Tom

    Two questions for the experts...
     1, What color black is correct for the grill and tailight trim on the
    '70 Torino GT? By this I mean should it be Flat, Satin, or what? 
     2, This should probably be directed to Dean, Is the center section of
    the grill attached to the support that holds the hood latch striker in
    any way?  I ask this because I removed the grill ass'y from my car (boy
    is that thing HEAVY) and it was attached by 8 bolts, 2 on each end, and
    2 inboard of the headlight buckets. The latch support has 4 holes that
    look like they could be for the grill, but I don't see how they can
    attach. 
     On other subjects, Tom F. is right about the Rustoleum Satin black
    being perfect for the engine compartment, I sprayed a few brackets over
    the weekend and they look great. I hit Tosy's over the weekend, got a
    few of the small pieces that I need, especially the rods and small
    plastic bushings that I needed to get my drivers door to open, its nice
    to be able to open both doors. He had a pair of white buckets out of a
    71 GT he wanted to sell, but they needed almost as much work as mine.
    He also had a perfect grill ass'y, but the 71 grill is different than
    the 70. One thing I am going back for is the intake manifolds, he had a
    nice aluminum one for $125, but it had a carb, on it and he is not sure
    he wants to split it up. He had a stack of steel ones in the $70 range,
    so that looks to be the best bet. Is there any special year intake that
    is best in terms of performance? This is for the 70 351 Windsor engine.
                                                   John M.
    

    John,
      Until recently 69 was the only year for a 4V 351W manifold. I've
    heard of real late 351Ws coming with aluminium intakes but they would
    have EGR ports etc.
    
                                  Jim

    Re-1
     Well I guess that narrows the choice down, thanks Jim.
     Another question concerning my grill. The main portion of the grill is
    a large metal casting, and it has a pair of breaks in it. The metal is
    approx. 1/8" to 3/16" thick by 5" at the point of the break, with the
    break being 3" long. Is it possible to weld this break?  Are you out
    there Mad Weldor?
                                                 John M.
    

    John,
    
         My hidden headlight grill has a bracket that mounts to either
    side of the assembly the hood latch attaches to. On the grill I  
    took off these brackets were missing and they broke cleanly off so
    it wasn't obvious they were gone. With out these the old grill was
    bouncing up and down due to lack off support. I think this metal is
    not a kind easily welded but I'm sure Jim can let us know for sure.
         I fired up my Torino for the first time this year and took it
    out for a spin...it started almost immediatly and then when going thru
    a pre flight check I noticed gas spitting out of a 2" rubber line that
    connects the fuel line to the carb fuel line, a quick replacment and
    all is well...chirp vrrrm chirp vrrrm shift kit doncha know :-) very
    satisfying.
         Well I'm in here there is lighter green colored GT Torino for sale
    in Gardner... if anyone wants any info send me a line it looked pretty
    clean FWIW I have no affiliation with the sellers.  
    
                Dean

    I figured something was amiss with the grill, I will start a search for
    the brackets ASAP. When I pulled the grill apart I found 4 of the 6
    tabs that get screwed to the grill surround broken cleanly off, looks
    like time for fiberglass resin to be broken out. About the only other
    things I have had time to do is degrease the undercarriage, the tranny
    area was a mess due to a leaking rear seal, and take the console apart
    to clean and repaint it. 
                                                  John M.
    

    re Welding of grills. I never have had much luck with "pot metal"
    grills. There are some real masters out there somewhere, but I will
    admit that I'm not one of them. I have been able to stick a few pieces
    of the "pot metal" type back together with some "aluminum" rod that
    I bought at a swap meet. The stuff melts at a very low temp. (propane
    torch) and it did stick. I even was able to "braze" a brass radiator
    filler neck to an aluminum expansion tank once, using this rod.
    Maybe one of the guys that does the "antique, total restoration" work
    could help you. Myself...I'd try to find another grill first.
    The Mad Weldor....Jim

    Thanks Jim, I figured as much, but I thought I'd get an experts opinion
    anyway.  It seems that this problem is fairly commen, all the grills I
    have come across in the JY are broken in the same spot. I may have to
    resort to a brace that I can rivit to the grill, I think I can hide it
    fairly well. Tosy's has a grill from a 71 GT, but it is nothing like
    the 70, and he won't seperate it, as I only need the outer grill, which
    is the same on both years. 
     I will try to make the Topsfield show this weekend and maybe luck out
    up there.
                                                     John M.
    

    
    John,
    
    I'll be traveling south of the Mason/Dixon line for the month
    of July.  Perhaps I'll come across a decent grille in my junkyard
    expeditions....
    
    Tom 

    John,
    If tom ever makes it down to the Fantasy Factory, have him bring it
    down. I'll try to braze it with the aluminum rod. You might want to
    pick up another one in case I melt it..  :-)
    
    re: Mason/Dixon line....yup, I was there last Fri....lots of cars down
    there rusting from the top down, unlike here in the North where they
    rust from the bottom.
    
    The Mad Weldor....Jim

    Tom, thanks for the offer, I hope you are traveling by car, as this
    thing is big, about 5 feet long and around 50 pounds, no such thing as
    lightweight back then. As far as trying to weld it, I think it would be
    more trouble than worth, I found 2 spots on the back where braces used
    to be, it seems they broke off in the past and are why the middle
    sagged and cracked. Thanks anyway Jim.
     On the lighter side, I found and purchased an Edelbrock Performer over
    the weekend, almost new, $60.00 from an 18 year old that tried to" put
    it on an ex-State Police cruiser (86) that had a computer, and it would
    not work." Whatever, I was happy :^)  Now if I can get a decent 2 day
    weekend to finish installing my swimmimg pool, maybe I can get some work
    done on the car.
                                                  John M.
    

    Well I had a somewhat productive weekend. I visited Tosy's again, and
    found a set of grill brackets, so I can repair the cracks. I also got a
    floor pan piece for the trans. hump that the shifter bolts to. The
    Torino does not use the same shifter as the Mustang, it does not bolt
    to the floor, but to a stamped steel pan that screws to the floor. Mine
    was missing when I pulled up the carpet, but I found one in a 67
    Fairlane GTA. In addition, I was able to get a trans. shifter lever,
    the one that goes on the trans, and pivots to change gears. I broke the
    other one trying to take it off. (The shop manual says " remove
    downshift lever retaining bolt, remove DS lever, remove shift lever" )
    so I removed it, and found out you were supposed to remove it from
    INSIDE! Ooops. Well I guess I get to learn about Ford automatics. 
     I also repaired the center (plastic) grill, by gluing the tabs on with 
    fiberglass resin, and sandwiching the tabs between 2 pieces of 'glass
    cloth. 
     Its going slow, but it is going.
                                                        John M.
    

    Latest update for those who are interested. I took another trip to
    Toseys last weekend and came away with a new interior. (Or an old one
    or whatever) A pair of bucket seats and the rear seat in almost perfect
    condition, 1 tear in the drivers seat was the only damage, and I have
    already fixed it. The interior is out of a Cyclone GT, and is comfort
    weave vinyl as opposed to plain vinyl in my Torino. After a little
    wheeling and dealing I got the interior for $150.00, and thanks to Tom
    Fisher and his pick up I got them home in one piece. The floor shifter
    was bolted in this weekend and the trans. is just about done also. I
    have given up on getting the beast on the road this season, there is
    simply not enough time. I figure I will do the paint and interior in
    Summer/Fall, and the mechanical work over the Winter. The interior has
    been completely stripped out of the car, and the minor rust is being
    taken care of prior to painting the floors. Does anyone know what the
    sound deadener on these cars is made of?  It weighs a ton, but then
    again so does everything else on it!
                                                    John M.
    

    
    
    John, just a word of advice from someone that has gone this route
    before, do the mechanics first. Especially if your gonna pull the
    engine.
    
    			- A.J.

    Hi, A.J.
     I have done this myself also, but the mech. work needed is fairly
    minimal, just a water pump and intake/carb replacement.  The reason why
    I am going about it this way is that I can heat the garage for the
    mech. work, but not for the paint. (I have something against spraying
    Lacquer paint and thinner around a space heater!)  As far as the engine
    coming out, I don't plan that for a couple of years when I swap the 351
    for a 429/460, if I still have the Torino. (My ultimate goal is a 69
    Mach 1, so I want the Torino looking and running well, so I can sell it
    if I find the right 'stang.) 
                                                            John M.
    

    Coming in kind of late to the "Torino Project" - my wife is the one who
    actually works for Digital, but she gave me access to this notes file
    because I'm an avid Ford/Mercury car enthusiast.
    
    Trunk mats from 70/71 are different.  70 uses a black and white plaid
    and 71 uses gray with white specs.  Auto Krafters (703) 896-5910 sells
    a large amount of parts for these cars, including trunk mats and
    weather stripping.
    
    What was left of that 70/71 Cyclone that you got the parts off of?
    I'm in the middle of my own restoration project with one of these
    vehicles and am starting a national registry for those cars.
    If you know anybody whose got one of these, send them my way or via my
    wife on node FACES::DAY.
    
    I used to have a 70 Torino GT, 351C - lost it to a head on collision,
    but have a lot of parts left.  Let me know what you are still missing.
    I'll recheck the notes file or send mail to my wife's node.
    
    Rob Day

    Hi Rob, welcome aboard.  The Cyclone at Tosy's is pretty well stripped,
    I got the seats, the rear, trans and top of the engine are gone.  The
    grill is smashed, one fender is there as is the hood, with built in
    scoop, but I think its bent. 
     As far as what I need, The car is fairly complete, I need a grill, but
    if you got in a head-on, I doubt you have that! Let me know what you
    have and I will see if I need it, you may have something I already
    have, but if you have a better one...
                                                       John M.
    

    Re-2
     Hi Rob,
     I can use the following items.
      Wheel well chrome. (as discussed on phone)
      Dual sport mirrors, with left remote.
      Rear window louvers.
      Radiator shroud and clutch fan.
      Steering wheel.
      Wiring harness from steering column to console (neutral safety switch
      harness, in particular).
      Tailpipe chrome tips. 
      Floor shifter to trans linkage.
     Thats about all I can think of for now, let me know what you have and
    we will go from there. Also, is there anywhere else I can look on the
    Cyclone for the VIN number besides the dash and door. If there is I
    will check it on my next trip. 
                                                               John M.
    

    
    John,
    
    You can usually find the VIN stamped into the core support, on the
    passenger side, next to the headlight buckets.
    
    tOM

    
    
     My interior is out of my car also, finished bead blasting the inside,
    and priming, then using restolium black paint for final coating,
    brushed on reaL THICK.  My car is a 4- door Luxury model.
    
      302 4v
      Cloth seats ( front and back )
      air conditioning
      power steering
      power brakes
      tinited windows
      chrome dual mirrors
      chrome every where including rocker panels.
      
    
      I had bought a hood from a junk yard for $50 , but it still is dented
    up a bit...right where the nose is..ouch !  The seats are good, except
    for one tear in the front...and the Major Mildew smell.
    
      The body is solid, and the engine is mint...except for the finished
    deatil work which will come this fall or winter.
    
      Are there any parts that are interchangable with this 4 dooor model,
    such as hoods, moldings, tail lights, interior door panels ???
    
      I need alot of stuff ...  Fortunately I have finished completing
    the Major Detailing on my '69 Stang  :-)   1st place trophies is reaL
    NICE...
    
    /Bob
    

    I MADE PROGRESS!!!! I actually drove the Torino today!  Of course it
    was only down the driveway and around the block and back, but its
    something.  The trans went back together OK, and the car now has a
    working Park position, which is a very good feeling. It started up
    great, after I freed up the stuck solenoid. The brakes, steering and
    suspension seem to work fine. I also gutted what was left of the
    interior and vacuumed out the floor pan, including the petrified
    Arizona mouse and nest. 
     I made a few observations while driving the car. One is it seems to be
    a fairly smooth riding car. Another is that you sit low, and can't see
    much out the back window, especially backing up. 
                                           A happy John M.
    

    I figured it was time for another update, to let everyone know that
    progress is still being made.  I just got back from a week of
    baby-duty, what I used to call Vacation, before my new daughter
    arrived. :^)  Anyway the car has been stripped of bumpers, taillights,
    side markers, chrome trim and emblems. The front and rear fender
    extensions have been pulled also. I have banged out the two dents on
    the drivers side, and will start bodywork next week. I plan on pulling
    the hood and front fenders so I can clean and detail the engine,
    engine bay and front end. Current plans are to finish the mechanical
    work and body prep over the winter and paint in spring. I have all the
    body parts I need to finish, including the front bumper, thanks to Dean
    Hawke. 
     I found two small rustouts on the floor, I could fiberglass them, but
    would rather weld. Does anyone have a portable welder, and the desire
    to help a fellow musclecar noter on some weekend?  My garage is
    equipped to run a 220 volt compressor, so I figure a welder should work
    also. I could even rent a welder if someone could show me what to do. 
    By the way, I live just north of Boston. 
     Another question. The bumpers are going to need rechroming, as is some
    door trim. Does anyone know about how much I can expect to spend on
    this?
                                                              John M.
    

    
    
     Re Chrome....Don't bother,  I called a few places for my bumpers on my
    Stang, and Torino....Proce was in the $200 range.  Buy new it is
    Cheaper, However
    
      I am going to Paint my Bumpers on my torino, many hot rod/Kustoms
    are into this, I will keep the Torino as Stock as possible, but the
    Bumpers will look better painted than Old Scuffy, dull chrome !!!
    
      My Torino project has been at a very slow halt due to Mustang shows,
    and House Reparing...and of course Time, and Definately MONEY.....
    
       I need MO MONEY to complete.  I placed all fenders back on after
    painted everything with Rustolium Black Gloss Paint !  The car was
    completedly sand blasted, and primed, however since this was done in 
    May '92...it has since began to RUST surfacely ...So Sanding will be
    required Again...SHeeeeT !
    
      My interior is stripped, I need a Carpet...it was missing when I
    bought the car...anyone have one ?  If not I am going to put just
    regular plain shag rug...Hey, I don't have too mush MONEY
                                                        ....
    
    
    
      if I had only MO MONEY !
    
    

    Re-1 
     Thanks for the info Bob. The only source of rechromed or new bumpers
    for the Torino is Auto Krafters, and they want $225 for each bumper,
    with exchange, $300 without.  I was thinking of painting the bumpers
    also, but saw a Torino with this done in a magazine, and didn't like
    it. 
     Another question. This is a long range planning question. Current
    plans are to install a big-block next winter. I was figuring on a 429
    or 460. Does anyone have any ideas on which to choose. I figure to go
    with cubic inches, and was also advised by Tom Fisher, late of the
    Royal Canadian Auditing Police 8^) to do the same. Has anyone built up
    a 429 or 460? What are the best years to look for, and what year did
    Ford start using hardened valve seats in these engines? Are there any
    years to avoid? I have seen many 460's from Lincolns for sale in the
    $200-$500 range, usually with a C6 attached, so availability and price
    seem to be no problem. How expensive are speed parts for these engines,
    and what parts should I use to wake them up? Any other advice is
    definately accepted.
                                                        John M.
    PS, where did everybody go lately?
    

    
    
     I'm here !  
    
      You can get a ThunderBird parts car with a 429 engine...that would be
    good, you may have to put heaver coils in the front, and shocks, if you
    had a Mustang pony, but the torino looks front end heavy so the 429
    should sit nice in the car !
    
      Go with the 429...worth more than the 460 block.  Paint the bumpers
    I am , and doesn't look bad, unless looking at the car in a magazine.
    
      I am going to paint my torino, Police Black, and White...with the
    Town Sheirf star on both doors....I am going to customize rather than
    go original colors...it will be cheaper !
    
    /Bob
    

    John,
    
         I have a 69 429 block with a 460 crank and rods. It uses 
    Cobra Jet rockers and guide plates with a factory Thunder Jet
    intake. There is a Holley 750 vacuum secondary carb on top. The 
    fuel lines are insulated to isolate them from the power robbing 
    heat under the hood. I have a 3:70 traction loc in the rear. Before
    I owned the car I drove it with a Cobra Jet intake and 4:11s out back
    the thing just wouldn't hook up at under 30mph. Now with the TJ intake
    ( seller est 15 less hp) and 3:70s anytime under 20 mph the hides will
    boil with judicious throttle application :-). This car makes my old 
    71 Stang with 351c feel like you'd need a calender to clock you in the
    quarter...when in reality the Stang went down the 1320 in the high 14s.
    I haven't taken the Torino down the � yet but I would estimate high 13s
    with traction.  FWIW  BTW its a very conservative looking car Blue no 
    pinstripes or emblems and hubcaps ;-). Couldn't tell ya how it would
    fair next to Bobs "Bueford T Justice" replica tho :-).
    
                 Dean

    
    John,
    
    I'm back from the North.  Generally speaking, most engines manufactured
    after 1971-2 will have hardened valve seats, though unless the car
    is frequently driven under high loads, valve recession isn't a real
    concern.  Conseqently, you'd probably be better off from a power
    perspective with an early 460.  Lincoln Mark III's had a pretty
    powerful 460 from `68-71 and I know of a few kicking around the
    junkyards.
    However, for the money a good performance rebuild will entail (figure
    on a total outlay of $2500-$3000, including all the mundane stuff that
    nickle and dimes you to DEATH) why not go with a PAW Gorilla Motor?
    It's a bored/stroked 460 displacing about 490 CID.  The long block kit
    is under $3000!  With a good intake, set of headers, and a 750 vacuum
    secondary carb, figure on 400+ HP and massive torque.
    
    Give me a call soon, looking forward to seeing the new tyke!
    
    Tom

    Re-1
     Welcome back, Tom. I wish you would stop trying to spend my money
    though! :^) I will consider the built 490, but it is a lot easier to
    slip small amounts of cash out of the Finance Ministers pocketbook,
    than $2500. Especially when you try to explain why you want to put a
    $2500 engine in a car you paid only $900 for, and it HAS an engine in
    it, but you want a BIGGER engine! At any rate, I still have plenty to
    do before I reach that point, but I might be able to get a 74 Lincoln
    MK IV with a good 460/C6/9" and a rotted body from a friend of my
    father so I figured I'd ask. Also thanks to Dean and Bob for their
    advice, and I still don't want to paint my bumpers, Bob. 
                                                        John M.
    

    Project updat, BIG changes.  I am in the process of getting a 460 :^)
    A friend at work gave my name to a friend of his who has a 75 460 out
    of a Torino and needs a 351 Windsor. It seems he races a 77 Mercury
    Comet and wants to pull the 302 and put in a 351, but wants a Windsor,
    not a Cleveland. At any rate he wants to trade a 460/C6 for my 351/C4,
    no money changing hands. I like it. He came out last week and listened
    to the 351, did a comp. check and liked it. I will go to look at the
    460 in 2 weeks, and if I like what I see/hear the swap will be made.
     I also have a line on a 9" housing that will fit the Torino. Will my
    8" axles fit a 9" unit, or do I need a complete set up. I can get the
    pumpkin from a neighbor so that is not a problem. How about the rear
    brake set up?  Also, if Tom F. is around, can you look up the PN of the
    big block frame mounts for the motor mounts to bolt onto? I figure I'll
    check the dealer for that item.
                                                         John M.
    

    
    John,
    
    Give  me a call Guy, I'm local for the next couple of MONTHS!
    Will you be enlisting the services of Fisher Trucking to get your
    nex large Block?  Let me know, I'd be happy to,
    
    Tom

    The brakes and axels are not interchangable between the 8" and the 9".
    I would get the pumpkin, see what spline count the unit is, and then 
    head for the boneyards to get the correct spline count and length
    axels.  I believe that the 9" Ford uses either 28 or 31 spline axels.
    
    If the 9" Fords are anything like the 8-3/4" Chrysler, look for axels
    out of either a station wagon or a truck.  They are (at least in the
    case of Chryco) larger in diameter and stronger.
    
    If you can't find the correct length, just get some that are too long
    and sent them to Moser.  Shipping is cheap and they will cut and
    respline the axels.
    
    Mark

    re-1
    Thanks for the axle info, I'll probably go the resize route.
     Re-2
     Tom, I'll give you a call this weekend, I am going to take a look at
    the engine next weekend, and its on the way to Mormon Hollow auto, so
    maybe we can do a road trip. 
                                                        John M.
    

    re .111
    
        Measure center to center on the leaf springs and then search
     the junk yards for a complete rear. Similiar year wagons or
     sedans with larger motors will have a 9". It's much cheaper to
     by one complete than 1 piece at a time. I wouldn't pay over
     $125 for the whole thing unless it happens to be a locker with
     the gear ratio you want. :^)
    
                   Jim L    

    Things are moving again. The 351 was pulled and taken away on Sunday,
    and the 460 was dropped off. The engine appears to be in great shape,
    the heads were already redone and the block appears to have low milage,
    no ridges at the top of the cylinders, and no carbon buildup. The
    numbers were sent to Tom Fisher, Ford Guru and big-block cheering
    section :^). So far it looks like a 71 block and 73 heads, better than
    I hoped for. The carb is junk, and the intake is a 76, but I plan on a
    Holley 800 and Weind intake anyway. The C6 is out of a 75 LTD, and also
    appears good. He even threw in the LTD driveshaft, which is beefier
    than my old one, so I will cut this down if I can't get a stock one.
    Now to find a rear end. 
                                                               John M.
    

    Gee John, my inlaws live just down the road in Revere. Next time we're
    up there visiting I'll have to slum over to Malden and check out this
    beast. ;-)
    
    Harry
    

    Re-1
     Hey Harry, I grew up in Revere, my folks still live there. I actually
    live on the Malden/Revere line. Come on over anytime.
                                                          John M.
    

    
    Hey John,
    
    Watch out for that Harry character.  Last time I went out with
    him my head was pounding for DAYS!  8^)
    Good times were had by all though...........
    
    Tom

    John, you also have to watch your "big block Ford" around Harry. He might 
    catch on that it has more torque than his injected 383 C**vy.
    
    :-)
    
    
    TMW...Jim

    re Jimmy, that's sacrelige!!! :-)
    
    Hi Tom! When ya coming out this way again?
    
    Harry
    

    
    
    
    :-)

    
    
     Well, I brought home a complete front end for my Tornio...and cost me
    $40.00  , The guy had a hood in mint condition, but I didn't buy it...
    due to lack of funds :-(
    
     Gee, Stafford was Jammed this year.
    
    
     For the Winter, I was thinking of rebuiling my 302 2v.  At the moment,
    the motor has 110K original miles, and I do not believe it was rebuilt,
    but will not know until taking apart.  Anyway's The engine is STOCK,
    but I was thinking of the following :
    
     1.  Remove Stock cam, replace with a beefer Performance Cam.
    
     2.  Remove the 302 Heads, and replace with 351 W  heads...this will
          give 50 HP  just by bolting on.
    
     3.  May need to replace stock head bolts, and get larger ones.
    
     4.  New valves, lifter..etc...
    
     5.  Undecided if I want to bore out 30 over, I know the most I can go
    is 60 over.
    
     6.  may need to replace stock carb 2v with a 4v perhaps a Holley 4v.
    
    
      Question is this  "  I for the last 3 years have been a FANATIC to
    ensure the car was Showroom stock, detailing etc...
    
      Would the car motor still be considered stock or have I modified it
    to the point that I would have to enter MOdified Mustang Classes in the 
    Future ?
    
      I figured with all the changes I would increase HP from 220 stock to
    306 Hp.  Should I pull my 302 2v oringinal motor from the Stang, and
    mopdify perhaps another 302, and put that in the car, so that if
    anything goes wrong or whatever I still have the Original Motor
    
    
    /Bob
    
    P.S.  If anyone is looking for a '69-70 March 1 Front Spoiler Original
    type plastic, let me know, I ordered one , took 4 months to arrive from
    back ordering, and decided not to use it...I will be retuning iot back
    to Mustang's Unlimited this Saturday,  Still in the box, I recieved the
    spoiler last weekend.
    
    

    John,
    
    I checked out Perogie, and they sell big block Ford motor mounts for
    your car at $175 for the set.  Good luck with your winter project!
    
    I just picked up some spare parts in the way of a 1971 Montego with
    40,000 original miles from California.  Still looking for 70/71 Torino
    convertible parts car.
    
    Keep in touch.
    
    Rob

    $175 for a set of motor mounts!  Looks like this winter project may be
    next winters project, too!
                                                        John M.
    

    That's supposed to be for the kit! - which seems to include the bolt in
    brackets for the motor mounts, the mounts, and some rear cross-members
    or something like that.  I found out that the brackets just bolt in, no
    welding required.
    
    You could use the 8 inch rear until it blows up!
    
    Will be following your progress.
    
    Rob

    Re-1
    Well that sounds a little more reasonable. For now, I plan on offering
    Tom Fisher dinner if we can look through his parts books, and if he
    will stay in town long enough! At any rate, can you send me the phone
    number and adress of the kit supplier, and I will call for information.
                                                              John M.
    

    John,
    
    Motor mounts and such available from:
    
         Perogie Enterprises
         200 Conover Road
         Hightstown, NJ  08520
         (609) 448-1684, FAX # 609-448-5671/Nights (609) 448-5690
    
    I am buying a parts car that has a 2.75:1 open 28 spline 9 inch in it
    that you might be interested in.  It will bolt right in to your car.
    
    Rob

    
    I'd advise you to stay away from perogie, unless it's
    a real last resort.  Why?  Yes they have the parts, but the
    prices are NUTS!  I needed a new dipstick and tube for my
    428 and Perogie wanted $60!!!  I found them still available
    new through Ford for under $20.
    
    John, i did look up the part numbers for the mounts, though left
    them at home.  I'm in Atlanta... oops!
    
    Tom

    This note has been awful quiet lately, so I figured I'd post a progress
    report. The Torino has been completely stripped of all sheet metal
    except the doors. No hidden rust was encountered. (Yes this really is a
    23-year-old Ford) I talked to a Torino/Fairlane expert from the
    Fairlane club about the engine swap and got some good news. The swap is
    much easier than I thought, I can use the same engine frame mounts and
    trans crossmember with any V8/Auto trans combination. All I need is a
    set of block spacers and motor mounts. A company called Crites
    Restorations has swap kits to put a 429/460 into just about any early
    60's to mid 70's Ford. The full kit for the Torino is only $88.00. This
    company is highly recommended by the club, and I recieved a parts
    listing and price list if anyone is interested. They have many parts
    for 60-70 era Fords. I will need to upgrade the radiator to a big block
    one. A radiator from a late-60's to early 70's T-Bird is a direct fit.
    And the driveshaft from a T-Bird is also a direct fit. I also learned a
    rear end out of a 68-71 Torino or Cyclone will fit. 
     Thats about all for now, I can't wait for spring.
                                                          John M.
    

    Well Project Torino just took a new turn. I just bought a '69 T-Bird
    for $475.00. The car has only 58,000 miles on it, and has been stored
    for 12 years. The body is rotted, and there is some frame rot, but the
    engine is great. And its a 429-4V, with a C6 and 9"rear end. The car
    has many parts that I can swap directly into the Torino, so it will
    definately speed up the restoration. Now, if anybody needs any '69
    T-Bird body parts (4-door), interior (perfect, black cloth) or trim,
    let me know.
                                                           John M.
    

    
    John,
    
    That's super!  The Thunderjet 429 is a true 360 HP motor.  With that
    low mileage it probably won't need much, if any, freshening.  Just bolt
    it in and go!  Need more power?  Add an aftermarket intake, Holley, and
    headers.  Cool.....
    
    Nice work,
    
    Tom

    Re-1
     More like nice luck! What I plan on doing is pulling the engine and
    cleaning/painting everything I can get at. I will probably put in a new
    high-volume oil pump while its out, and drop in a set of headers, as
    its probably impossible to do this with the engine in. The timing chain
    is new, so thats a non-issue, and there is a newer Holly carb on there
    already. The carb is a Ford specific model as it has the correct choke
    stove set up and down shift linkage, but I am not sure of the size. A
    600CFM Motorcraft (or Autolite) is supposed to be standard, but I hope
    the Holly is a 735-780CFM model. I plan on getting the T-Bird this
    weekend, so I will have more details then.
     By the way, welcome back, Tom.
                                                    John M.
    

    
    John,
    
    While the motor is apart for inspection, etc, you should send out the 
    intake, valve covers, oil pan, etc for a hot tanking and bead blasting.
    It's cheap and will ensure good paint adhesion when you detail it out.
    Also, before the motor goes back in, rebuild the front end, and detail
    out the engine compartment.  It's much easier this way, trust me on
    this.  As AJ Sanclemente can attest, working on a Big Block Ford is no
    fun in the confines of the *tight* Ford engine bay!  
    
    Man I love spending your money John....... 8^)
                                                       

    
    Yeah, Tom is right. Do whatever you can while the engine is out.
    
    	- A.J.

    OK, we got the T-Bird home Saturday (and boy was it COLD!) I have
    already run into a mystery. The previous owner replaced the stock
    600CFM Autolite carb with a Holly, but can't remember what size it is.
     It has a Ford part number on the air horn, as well as the ford
    aluminum tag on a choke screw. It also has the correct kickdown linkage
    and choke stove. All the numbers I could find are below, if anyone has
    a Holly book and can decode, let me know.
    
    Al Tag #'s                             Air Horn #'s
    D8PEFA                                D8PE-9510-FA
    A-4E81                                 LIST-8411
                                            1524
    
    Its been too cold to check out anything else, when is winter going to
    end?
                                                           John M.
    

    
    John,
    
    The part number appears to be for a '78 Ford OEM Holley carb.
    My part books won't help as they are up to '72 only.  I'll call
    my parts guy and post an answer to the carb mystery.
    
    Tom

    
    John,
    
    Just got off the phone with the parts guy at Ford.  John, this carb
    retails for $609!!!!!  It's a pretty generic application, used on
    '73-79 351's, 429's, and 460's.  The parts fiche doesn't specify 
    CFM rating.  I'll try my Holley books tonight and see if the list
    number yields some clues...
    
    Wow John, the carb alone is worth more than the price of the car!
    
    Tom

    $609 for a non electronic carb!! What is it gold plated?  Its probably
    a 600CFM carb, but I'd like to confirm that. At least it seems to work
    OK. 
                                                    John M.
    
           

Can someone tell me what engine is in the 68 Thunderbird?

Thanks,
Dave.

    
    Should be a 360 HP 429 4v.  Provided the engine is original.
    
    Tom

    Did they all come with 429's? I was told it was an oprtion, and a 390
    was standard. 
     Tom, any luck on the CFM on the Holly?
                                  John
    

    I think they were rated a 735 cfm ?
    
    JJ

    
    John,
    
    I called Holley Technical Services @ (615) 859-4924
    
    The carb is a model 4160 (metering plate, not removable jets) 600 CFM
    Original application was a `73 Ford 460 with Automatic transmission.
    
    This carb may well work with your 429 if you seek good throttle
    response at the expense of WOT horsepower.
    
    Tom

    I was figuring it was a 600. At least its better than a Motorcraft or
    Autolite. I think I'll leave it for now, and swap in a 750 when I get a
    new manifold.
                                                           John M.
    PS, Thanks Tom.
    

    Hi Everyone,
    	Well after much contemplation and checking out on availability and
    stuff I have decided to have the vacuum motor for my hideaway
    headlights rebuilt.  I called the Ford dealers and 4-5 companies in
    Hemmings and the best I could do was a used one for 100 dollars.  The
    question I have is does anyone know anyone who can replace the seals on
    one of these vacuum motors around the NH-Mass area?  I finally had to
    unhook it due to the fact that the seals were leaking so badly.  Anyway
    any suggestions would be appreciated.
    				Walter Fleury
    

    Hi,
       I have a 75 year old relative with a '68 Mercury Comet, 2 door
    hardtop, 289 Cu. In. engine and automatic.  It has 44K miles on it
    and he's the original owner.  It's kept in a garage and is covered.
    He occasionally uncovers it to take it for a short spin and to wax it.
    (His "daily driver" is a '85 Suburu with only 5K on it, so he certainly
    doesn't get out much.)
        I haven't seen the car, yet, but he is real interested in my coming
    to his house so he can show me the Merc.  If he ever decides to sell
    it, I certainly would be interested in it if the price is right.  I
    have a couple of questions about this car.
        I would like to keep it as stock as possible for possible later
    resale.  I would like to pull the 289 and save it and install a "warm"
    351W.  Is this a simple swap?  (I understand that nothing is "simple"
    but I have installed a 327 Chev in a '65 Jeep CJ5.  That was supposed
    to be simple!).  What tranny is in the car now and will it handle the
    added power or is a tranny swap also in order?  Again, I don't want to
    have to modify everything to do this and destroy it's "stock" resale
    value.  Is the rear end a 9" unit?  If not, will whatever is there hold
    up?
    Assuming it has drum front brakes, is there a "simple" disc brake swap?
    Will the original radiator handle cooling a 351?  
    
        On a "what if I go crazy note", I saw a prior entry about using a 
    T-Bird 429 with a C-6 in a Torino.  Will this also fit the Mercury
    Comet?
    
    If it helps at all, the '68 Mercury Comet has a body style very similar
    to the '68 Cyclone but without the fastback roof.
    
    Thanks,
    Wayne

    
      the car most likely has the C-4 Tranny....as far as replacing the 
    289 with the 351, You may need heavier suspension ( coils, springs,
    shocks etc )....actually I think it would be highly recomended that
    the suspension be upgraded.
    
      it would be like someone wanting to put a 390 in a pony Mustang
    that had a 4 cyl in it....if you do not beef up the front end...
    your just going to kill the car, and the performance will less
    efficient...
    
    /Bob  my 2 cents
    

    Bob, don't the 289W and 351W  (not 351 Cleveland) engines weigh within
    pounds of each other?  The blocks are basically the same size.  The
    351W heads are a little taller so they probably weigh a little more.
    I may want to upgrade the suspension even if I keep the 289 in there.
    I have read that these cars cornered like a cement truck.
    How do I tell a C-4 tranny from some other tranny?  Also, is there a
    quick way to tell a 9 " rear end?  I know basically what they look
    like.
    Thanks, Wayne 

    
    
      What does the door tag say  ....VIN #  ?  The Rear end will also
    have a tag...
    
      I can not say if the engines are the same # for #....I can look
    up the info.  If they are close, then I myself would not be
    too conserned about upgrading the suspension, I Know I would
    have to if I was going from a 289 to a 390 or 428CJ.
    
     Yes, the stangs handle like a tank....and I love my 69 stang....
    Handles very well with 275-R15 in the front and 245-R60 in the rear...
    
    /Bob
    
        Oh yeah...somewhere on the transmission will be marks which
    will tell if it's the c-4 or c-6....I guess even if the VIN says
    one thing does not mean someone has changed it out...Right !
    
    

An 8" looks much like a 9", except the bottom of the pumpkin is flatted slightly
(across 3" maybe) and the 9" is rounded around the bottom.  Look at a 78-86 
Ford Bronco, and you'll see a 9" - look at any 65-6-7 Mustang, you'll see an 8"
If the Bronco has a stepped bottom, and a visible bolted-on cover plate, you're
looking at an 8.8" rear end, which is shared with later F150s and Crown Vics.  
8" and 9" are both "third member" style rear ends, with no bolted-on rear cover
plate.

I just looked at my C4 last night, and the pan is ~10" square, there
is a circular casting on the right side that has a large letter "A" on it, and
a trans number next to it, starting with C4-, then xxxxx-xxxx-x - but I've been
told that the "c4" prefix doesn't always mean an actual C4.  If you can get 
the trans. number, a trans. shop can tell you if it's a C4.  

The door tag (deciphered) is the best place to look....  I'm betting you have 
a C4 and an 8", if it's original.   Rear anti-sway bars are supposed to be a
good start for better handling Mustangs, along with the Monte Carlo brace
between front shock towers.  I'd imagine the same is true for your car.



Steve

    I'm going down in a week or two to look at the car.  I'll write down
    everything that I can find.  I'm sure the car is totally original since
    the owner (uncle) bought it brand new.  He's 75 or 76 years old and I
    doubt he got around to "hot rodding" the car, yet. 
    
    Thanks everyone for what to look for.
    Wayne

    if it is a square pan it is definately not a C-6 trans.  Not sure of
    what the C-4 and FMX trans pans looke like but I know the C-6 is not
    Square.  
    				Walter Fleury
    

    OK, I finally have time to put my $.02 in. I am the nut putting the 429
    Thunderjet into the '70 Torino so I have been through this already.
    First of all, if the car is as original as you say, it probably should
    be left as to keep its value. But, I ignored the people who told me to
    put an original 302 in the Torino so thats all I'll say on that 8^).
     The car most likely has a C-4 trans and an 8" differential. The C-6
    was only available on Big-blocks or Hi-Po small blocks. It may have an
    FMX, but its not very likely. The 289 is a nice little engine and could
    be built up very easily if you wanted to keep the stock engine. That
    would be the easiest and cheapest route. 
     A 351 Windsor is the next step up. This is a relatively easy swap, as
    the block mounts are the same as a 289 or 302. You may need bigger
    front springs as the 351 weighs around 75 pounds more than the 289. The
    blocks are NOT the same on these, the 351 has a higher deck height, and
    is wider than the others. The heads are interchangable. The C-4 and 8"
    should be able to handle this without much trouble, and you probably do
    not need to change the radiator. The 351 was a factory option on the
    '69 Torino/Fairlane/Cyclone/Comet so parts are easily available. 
     A 351 Cleveland would be almost as easy, but was never offered in this
    body, so it may need different mounts. Probably not.
     Next up is the 390 or 428. Both of these are also factory options in
    this year, but need many changes to the car. You'll need a C-6 trans,
    9"rear end, bigger diameter, but shorter driveshaft, big-block front
    and rear springs, a BB radiator, and all the brackets that go on the
    car/engine combination. The main problem here is that these engines are
    getting a little scarce and parts are expensive. 
     Finally the 429 or 460 swap. This is possible, but not easy. The 70
    and 71's had a 429 as an option, and the engine bay was wider than the
    68-69's to accept the bigger engine (the 429 is 2" wider than a 428).
    There are install kits available, for around $175 to do this, but I
    think some cutting of the shock towers is needed. All the parts needed
    for the 390/428 swap are needed here in addition to the install kit.
     The disc brake swap is a little easier. Find a junkyard with a
    Hollander interchange book and ask them what cars interchange with the
    Comet, then find one and pull the whole brake system. I think the 68-71
    Torino and Cyclone use the same parts, and probably the Mustang and
    Cougar. The Maverick and Granada may also use these parts, but I'm not
    sure. There are also complete swap kits in the numerous Mustang
    magazines. 
     As far as how to tell a C-4 from a C-6, the C-4 has a rectangular pan,
    and the C-6 has a cutout on it, like this...
                           ________                 _________
                C-4        |      |          C-6    |_      |
                           |______|                   |_____|
    
    A 9 " diff. has a bulge on the rear of the carrier, the 8" has a
    spherical surface to the carrier.
     Hopefully this will help you get started.
                                                       John M.
    

    I think I've been convinced to keep the 289 and "warm" that up a little
    instead.  The Amherst Auto Flea Market is only 10 minutes from my
    house.  I think I'll price out an original equipment 289 four barrel
    manifold, throw a small Holly on it and convert to dual exhausts.  It
    won't make it much of a "musclecar" but I didn't intend on racing it
    or anything like that.  Does anyone know what a correct four barrel
    carb would be for this year or wasn't one offered?  Will I need to
    re-cam it with the four barrel?  The car only weighs about 3100#'s if
    that makes any difference.
    Thanks, Wayne

>    house.  I think I'll price out an original equipment 289 four barrel
>    manifold, throw a small Holly on it and convert to dual exhausts.  It
>    won't make it much of a "musclecar" but I didn't intend on racing it
>    or anything like that.  Does anyone know what a correct four barrel
>    carb would be for this year or wasn't one offered?  Will I need to
>    re-cam it with the four barrel?  The car only weighs about 3100#'s if
>    that makes any difference.

	A factory 4bbl manifold should cost ~100 or so; they are rarely any
cheaper than that.  I'm thinking of doing the same thing to my Mustang, but
will probably order the Summit racing package, that includes a Weiand dual
plan manifold, a Holley 650, an open element air cleaner, and gaskets for
$250.  That's not a bad price, and you can just shelve all the orig. parts
until resale.  According to someone in this file (MARK ;-)), an aftermarket 
manifold will substantially outperform the factory 4bbl manifold.  A 4bbl. 
(perhaps from a Mustang) isn't too hard to come by, and I don't think you need 
to recam it, unless you're looking for some extra performance.  

Steve

    I may have a 4stock 4bbl maifold up in the rafers of the FF.. If your
    interested.
    
    
    TMW...Jim
    
    For those who have haunted my upstairs in the FF..they know I have alot
    of parts that I may or may not know I have..   :-)

    Jim, if I don't use it on this car (which I don't know now if I will
    ever obtain) I might be needing the manifold for my 1965 Century
    Resorter ski boat.  It currently has a 165 HP 260 Cu. In. Ford with
    the original aluminum two barrel intake manifold which I managed to
    break off the thermostat housing bolt on.  I currently have a pair of 
    vice grips keeping it from leaking, but if I can't remove the stud and
    rethread it this fall, I'll probably have to get a new manifold. 
    260/289/302 manifolds are all the same. Right?
    How much would you be asking if I need one (possibly two)?
    Thanks, Wayne

    Wayne,
    I real flexible on prices.... (A 260.........Hummm, nice motor!)
    
    re. Alum manifold/broken stud..... Why don't you bring the manifold to
    a welder and have the borken stud removed...
    
    TMW...Jim

I have a Wiean (sp) dual plane and a Holley 650 in my garage off a 302 ford

If ya want it, give me $100.00, it's yers.

Ed Keltz

    This probably should go in the suspension topic, but I figured I'd give
    a Project Torino update at the same time. The Torino is progressing
    well, but I keep getting further into it than I wanted to originally.
    It seems it will be a full resto when I'm done. The engine bay and
    front suspension have been fully stripped of every component and is in
    the process of being sandblasted/wire wheeled. No rust has been
    uncovered in the wheel well area, just shiny metal under 23 years worth
    of paint/undercoating/crud. If you are going to restore an old car,
    Arizona is the place to buy it, this car has virtually no rust.
     The question I have is if anyone has replaced the stock suspension
    pieces with polygraphite ones. I saw Tom Fishers kit from PST and
    figure thats the way to go, but I've also heard that the poly pieces
    squeek when used in control ar applications. I am installing a much
    thicker front sway bar to replace the spaghetti thin stock one and will
    use poly bushings there, but am not sure about replacing the control
    arm bushings. Anyone have some experience with this before I order the
    kit?
                                                      John M.
    

    I've tried to locate a good book on how to identify different mid-size
    Ford and Mercury performance cars and options from the sixties and
    early seventies.  In particular, I'm very interested in
    Fairlane's, Torino's, Comet's, and Cyclone's.  Also, good parts
    catalogs.  I have the Auto Krafters catalog but it doesn't have
    pictures or go into any detail.  Any recommendations?
    One more question.  Was a '68 Mercury Cyclone a full or mid-size
    vehicle?  I called a guy who has one for sale in the Want Advertiser.
    He described to me a full size vehicle with a "huge verticle rear
    window".  I thought Cyclones were mid-size.
    Thanks, Wayne

    
    John,
    
    Your question is a valid one.  Yes, poly bushings do have a propensity 
    to squeak -- but in your case I don't think the control arms are the 
    problem.  The upper control arm bushings are not poly, or rubber, but
    steel.  On the PST kit, the lower control arm bushings are poly, but
    the uppers are steel.  The bushings that actually squeak the most are 
    the sway bar pillow blocks -- due to the torsional forces placed on
    the sway bar.  The partial solution is to ensure the bar is absolutely
    smooth, and use a water resistant lubricant between the bar and the
    bushings.
    
    Give me a call John, and we can chat.  Glad to see you making progress.
    
    Tom

    
    Oh yes, I almost forgot Wayne's question.  Your best source of
    information on the Mercury would be the factory parts manuals which
    show exploded diagrams of all major assemblies, and list the part
    numbers -- along with identifying characteristics.
    This set is available as a reprint from some of the big auto literature
    houses such as Dragich and Classic motorbooks.  
    As far as a source book for your Merc, stay far away from the
    Classic Motorbooks offerings.  They merely contain reprints of
    original articles -- and contain very little of value to the restorer.
    Another good source of data are the factory shop manuals from Ford.
    These can be had at any decent swap meet for about $50 (a five volume
    set) 
    
    Another excellent reference book is American Supercar by Roger
    Huntington.  It's very comprehensive and factual -- covering the
    American high performance car from 1900-Present.  It's an H-P books
    publication and priced under $15.  Probably the most complete and
    objective book on the subject.
    
    The knowledge you seek can also be found by going to car shows and
    politely asking owners of similar vehicles what they know.
    Most people are happy to share their knowledge.
    
    Tom 

    RE-3
     Wayne, the latest Auto Krafters catalog is a huge improvement on their
    past offerings, and is fully illustrated. I just recieved mine a few
    months ago, and they are probably the best source for these cars. As
    far as the 68 Cyclone, it was a mid size car "in its day". By todays
    standards its huge, and my Torino has a longer wheelbase than many full
    size cars of today. Thats where the confusion may be. The 68 Cyclone
    should have a large horizontal rear window, with a fastback roofline.
    These cars are rare, so it may be worth looking at.
                                                        John M.
    

In playing with antisway bars on a vehicle, I noticed that if you used the 
heavier bar, but stock rubber bushings, you got the stiffness without the impact
harshness that urethane bushings give you.  I'm sure the rubber bushings 
wouldn't last as long, but the urethane bushings combined with a stiffer bar
were just too much.  Your mileage may vary, but consider playing with the 
pieces until you get what you like.

Steve

    I see its been a while since I gave a Project Torino update, so I
    figured I'd add one, to let everyone know I'm still here. The Torino is
    progressing, I spent the last few months doing some small parts
    stripping in the basement, as its too cold to work in the garage. I
    just started spending my Christmas present ($$$) and so far have
    recieved a front end rebuild kit from PST, new front big block springs
    and gas shocks from my local speed shop, and have ordered a bunch of
    stuff from Auto Krafters, including spring perches, a battery tray,
    some engine decals and a wiring diagram. I also added a dust collector
    to my sand blasting cabinet (shop vac.). Now all I need is some warm
    weather to begin the reassembly. I will order the 429 install kit when
    the front end is complete, but it seems I can forget about headers for
    now. The only company that offers headers for the Torino with a 429 and
    power steering is Hooker, and they want $400.00! I guess the cast iron
    manifolds will have to do for now. I do have one question, I was told
    that its a good idea to weld up all the seams in the unibody of a
    Torino, especially a big block. Has anyone else heard this? The Torino
    front suspension is identical to a 71-73 Mustang, except the shock
    towers are not braced to the firewall. Would a custom brace that ties
    the 2 shock towers together, and to the firewall be needed, or is it
    stiff enough the way it is? Just wondering.
                                                     John M.
    

    I almost forgot another question. Some of the underhood parts are
    supposed to be colored "gray phosphate", including the hood hinges and
    some brackets. Does anyone know what gray phosphate looks like? Is it a
    light or dark gray, is it translucent or metallic? Is it flat or gloss,
    or in between?
                                                     John M.
    

    John, did you ask Auto Krafters if they carried the headers?  They may
    not be in the catalog.  There was mention in Hot Rod this month that
    they carry headers for a big block into a 62'Fairlane conversion but I
    didn't see those in the catalog, either.
    Wayne

    John,
    
         I added a Monte Carlo bar in addition to the factory
    export brace on my 71 Mustang don't know how much of an 
    improvment in stiffness it made as I changed sway bars and
    shocks at the same time but it didn't hurt and sure looked good.
    Do you know if the under hood dimensions are the same ?  I know 
    where there are some 71-73 Mustangs with the factory export
    brace.  BTW I have the hookers on my Torino and their tight but the
    fit is good and there are no problems...FYI they are a 2 piece unit.
    
             Dean

    Re-2
     Auto Krafters lists the headers, but not for a car with power
    steering, unlss I go with the Hookers. I figure I will eventually put
    the Hookers in, but not untill I have everything else I need for the
    car. 
    Re-1
     Dean, if you can't sell the Torino I'll buy the headers from you 8^).
    Seriously the Torino has a wider engine compartment than the Mustang,
    so I don't think the Monte Carlo bar will fit. I've never seen a
    Torino or Cyclone with bracing so maybe its not neccesary.
                                                   John M.
    

    
    Hey Gang,
    
    What's up???  I may be *thousands* of miles away, but I still pop
    in for a fix.......
    
    Hold the presses....Manuele's got money!!!  For once the guy gets
    a break from the mortgage, IROC from hell, kids, and gets to spent
    a little money on himself.. Amen....  Too bad I'm not around to
    help spend it!!
    
    Dean,  You still have the Torino??  I've been thinking a bit about
    the car.. Entertaining offers?   If so, send me mail at IAMOK::FISHER 
    
    Gotta run,
    Sydney bound in about 2 hours....
                                                                         

    Nice guy Tom. The wife said I could have the money only if you were far
    away! She has fears of another "great deal" ending up in the yard, like
    Deans Torino for instance. So, no response on what gray phosphate is? 
    Did some sandblasting over the weekend, the home made cabinet works
    great, especially after I attached a shop vac as a dust collector.
    Now to await UPS.
                                                   John
    

    John, have you checked the Eastwood catalog for the gray phosphate
    paint? If they don't have it, it probably doesn't exist! ;-)
    
    Harry
    

    Good idea Harry, I forgot all about Eastwood. I don't specifically
    remember them having it, but I will check.
                                                      John.
    

    
    Alright John,
    
    Grey phosphate has a dull, chalky look to it.  Color is 
    a medium grey..
    
    Eastwood's spray gray would probably work ok, about $4.95 per
    aerosol can.  Nice stuff.
    
    Tom
                 

    I'm not sure where I saw it but it was an article on a new product from 
    Eastwood (I think) that was like a four part process to get the look I
    think you are asking about.  There were three or for different spray
    cans required.  The last step sprayed a light "greenish"tint over the 
    other layers.  The end result looked just like the plating process that
    was used.  Maybe that is what you are looking for.  I wish I could find
    the Mag.  Probably Hot Rod.
    Wayne

    Re-1
     I saw that in both the Eastwood catalog and in Musclecar review, but
    its for cadmium plating, not gray phosphate. I don't seem to have any
    parts that need to be cadmium plated, or I would go with that, it seems
    pretty good.
                                                           John M.
    

    I need some help from anyone with a tire interchange chart. My Torino
    came with 14" tires when I bought it, but a factory option was 15 inch
    Wide Ovals. The size was F60-15, and here is the trouble. I want to put
    15" radials on the car, and have no idea what size would be close to
    stock. I've asked at several tire places and they don't have a chart
    that goes back far enough. I want to put a good sized 60-series tire on
    the car, but am limited in how big I can go by the small rear
    wheelwells, so it needs to be pretty close to stock size. Any
    suggestions?
     I may as well put in an update on the Torino while I'm here. The
    project is moving along quicker with the good weather, the engine bay
    has been sandblasted and painted with POR-15 (looks nice, too 8^) ).
    The new front suspension has been detailed and is ready to go in on the
    right side, the left still needs some work. I ordered a 1 1/4" front
    sway bar to tighten up the roll rate, and will order a 3/4" rear bar
    when I get a 9" diff to put in there. I also need rear leaf springs in
    case someone can suggest a good source for these. I'm hoping to get the
    engine pulled from the T-Bird in mid July, and put it right in the
    Torino after some detailing and a few new parts (oil pump, gaskets and
    freeze plugs) Then I can junk the T-Bird and give the patio back to my
    wife. I also picked up a set of Keystone Klassic rims with 235-70R-15
    Goodyear Eagle ST's from a friend at work, if anyone can use the tires,
    let me know there too big for me.
                                                        John M.
    

    John,
    
     Somewhere in 'buffs there's a chart mapping out the tire sizes between
    the old sizing method and the new metric sizing. I have a copy at home.
    
    Chris

    where are you and what all do you want.
    
    Ive got a '71 torino gt 351c 4bbl 9" ltd slip the rear leafs were
    changed 9 years ago and whenever its stored its jacked up with
    the leafs hanging. Rust in all the ussual places but very restorable.
    Seats good , spare tail light ...
    
    Woodstock Ontario can be purchased with the new highly undervalued
    Canuck bucks.
    
    
    Brian V                                                           
    

    RE-1
     If I brought home another project car I would have to sleep in it!
    Thanks anyway. I will try to find the chart in carbuffs, any idea
    where?
                                                           John M.
    

    Well some torino's had fold down rear seats.....
    
    
    
    ; )
    
    
    Brian V
    

    My buddy just finished his 1969 Torino GT Fastback 390-4v-C-6. 10years
    of
      labor/frustration ect..  Cruised the Mid Cape in style...
    
                                                                  Doug.

    Re-1
     That means I only have 8 years to go....Sigh.
                                                     John M.
    

never eat a black apple.

    
    RE-1
    
      You mean Never Own a Mopar.

    Well, it looks like I will have to end the Project Torino story far
    from completion. No, I am not getting rid of it, but I am saying goodbye 
    to Digital. I've decided that I can't stand all the bad news anymore and
    am accepting an offer with a company in southern New Hampshire. My last
    day at DEC is this Friday, Sept. 09. The Torino is still progressing,
    and in fact I may need to speed things up, as we are thinking of
    relocating to the Nashua/Merrimack area and the car needs to be able to
    roll at the very least. The engine bay has been cleaned and
    sandblasted, and a coat of POR-15 has been applied. I just need to
    spray the epoxy primer and semi-gloss black paint and I can start
    bolting on the front suspension. The new parts include, upper ball
    joints, lower control arms, outer tie-rod ends, coil springs, perches
    and insulators, gas shocks, brake calipers, brake master cylinder,
    power steering valve rebuild kit, front 1.125" sway bar and various
    polygraphite bushings. When everything is installed I can bolt on the
    Keystone Klassics and roll the car on to a ramp truck to move it. 
     I will miss this notesfile, and the people who made it great. If you
    ever see a bright orange '70 Torino GT with a 429 in it its probably
    mine, as I have not seen another one in Mass. since I bought this one.
     If any wants to keep in touch, my phone number is..
                                                  (617) 324-0478
    
                                                        John M.
     

    I know that nobody reads this notesfile anymore but in case somebody
    should check in, I'll ask the question.
    
    How alike are '67 Mercury Comets and '67 Ford Fairlanes?  I know of a 
    '67 Mercury Comet that has been sitting for awhile.  It would make a
    nice Cyclone clone and the price is right (maybe $100 or so).  It needs
    some serious work, though.  Like one front wheel is folded in.  The guy
    said the A-arm broke.  (I doubt the A-arm broke, probably the mounting 
    hardware, or a ball joint.)  Anyways, I also know where there is a '67
    Fairlane four door sitting in a junkyard minus the engine/tranny.  The
    rest doesn't look too bad.  From looking at the Auto Krafter's catalog,
    I would guess that most suspension/mechanical parts are interchangeable
    and some body parts like side marker lights are also common.  Even the 
    firewall insulation pad which is precut for things to stick thru is the
    same for both.  Has anybody had any experience with either of these
    vehicles?  Worst case would be that the '67 Comet has been sitting
    outside long enough that the frame could be rotted (the rear bumper did
    fall off although the guy claims it broke off when he was towing
    something) and I would need to swap in a whole frame.  With so many
    suspension parts shared, my hopes are that they used the same frame
    between lines and styles (Ford vs. Merc, two door vs. four doors).
    
    Thanks for any help offered although this file has been so dead I don't
    know that anybody will even read this.
    
    Wayne (still looking for small block Ford parts!!)

    I can't speak authoratatively re: the '67, but I had a '68 Fairlane
    with the 375/390 and a whole lot of it was interchangeable w/ the
    Mercury product.  Another car I wish I still had!
    
    	Bill

As an ex-owner of a '67 Fairlane GT, I can attest to the fact that
the major running gear was interchangable with the same year Comets.

Obviously, the softgoods and bodyparts were different, but the stuff
that matters was the same.

I know this as a fact as I had a similar 'folded' wheel and used parts off
a '67 Comet to effect repairs. Creased the oilpan (which seeped) and that, too,
came off a Merc. 390 of a few years earlier.

Now, the only thing that may be different are the suspension parts between
vehicles with and without disk brakes.

Chris

    I did notice that the catalog showed drum brake components to be
    interchangeable but disk brake components were different. In fact, they 
    didn't list any Comet disk brake stuff at all except for disk brake
    pads.
    
    Do you remember what broke to give you the folded wheel?  I can't
    believe the upper A-arm could break.  I think he must mean the upper
    ball joint or upper arm shaft let go, either of which could be replaced
    for moving purposes with a junkyard assembly.  
    
    I'm a little disappointed that the Fairlane already has been stripped
    of those things that are needed for a V-8 swap. (The Comet is a six
    and I have a 289 just looking for the right car.)
    Wayne

re: .192

The lower arm was bent during the impact. Not enough to break anything, just
cause visible damage to the wheel alignment. It was much more noticable when
driving... the left side wanted to go right, the right wanted to go straight.

I'm surprised by your findings about the brakes.  As I remember, the Fairlane
and its cousin Comet were identical except for the obvious. The base vehicles
came thru with drums at all 4 corners and the Fairlane GT came with disks. There
was a corresponding GT-like form of the Comet, called the Cyclone, no other
identifiying name additions, I believe.  That, too, came standard with disks.
What's interesting is the shop manual I had was printed for the Fairlane/Comet
line and was identical in every respect, the only difference being body and trim
components.

Chris

    Chris, was it a Ford Shop manual or other (ie: Chilton's). Maybe I'll
    pick one up.
    
    I should probably call Auto Krafters before I make any assumptions.  It
    would seem obvious that all else being the same that disk brake
    components would be interchangable also.
    
    I really would like to do a '67 Mustang fastback.  I don't suppose you
    have any experience around interchangability between Mustangs and
    Fairlane/Comets?
    
    Thanks for the help.
    Wayne

Wayne,
	Sorry for the late response... busy. The information came out of the
shop manuals which I sold with the car.  There's an interchange manual that I've
heard referred to in this conference that should tell you what components can
interchange.  I've seen the book on sale for something like $50. Maybe your
local library has a copy in the reference section.  Sorry I don't know its exact
title.  Maybe another noter knows and will post a reply.

	The Mustang/Cougar line and Fairlane/Comet didn't share body parts, the
Mustang/Cougar were shorter and narrower.  The drivetrain components were
interchangable (save for rearend housing, narrower and driveshaft, shorter).
Some elements of the frontend were interchangable, but be careful. As the weight
of the vehicle changes, the suspension parts may be of lighter construction.

Chris