Conference 7.286::macintosh

In Telecom Digest today, there's an article about what happens when you
try to call 1-800-SOS-APPL and call 1-800-S0S-APPL instead.

/john

    Not all of us see Telecom Digest - could you be so kind as to summarize
    the article in, say, 25 words or fewer?

The article says that you reach an ENTIRELY different sort of line.

Except if you have a, um, problem, I'm sure the, uh, support people on the other
end would be glad to, ahem, assist you.

Paul

    
    It's a pay per minute for phone sex number...some of us have made the
    mistake innocently, other's have made the mistake cause we were told
    about it, still others have made the mistake for 15 minutes at a time.
    
    8)

    > for 15 minutes at a time
    
    Not all that quick, then, is it?  :-)

I'm not sure if this is quick or basic, but I couldn't find a more appropriate
topic.  I have a IIsi with an accelerator (68030/40Mhz with Floating Point).
It's got 9 Meg of memory, an 80 Meg disk and a 1X CD-ROM.  Despite its small
configuration, it's been adequate for my needs (mostly word processing).

Now I'm moving into other applications.  I'm going to be getting some CD-ROM
based educational software, so I need a faster CD-ROM drive.  I'm going to be
doing some stuff involving color pictures, so I need a scanner, a color printer,
and more memory and disk space.  With more disk space, I'll probably want a
better backup medium than floppies.  The only thing I've done so far is order
the scanner.

What's the most cost-effective way of doing this?  Should I get a moderately
obsolete hard disk, like a 540Meg one?  New or used?  Internal or external?
Is it worth it to get used memory from a private party rather than get new
stuff from The Chip Merchant?  Should I consider getting a SCSI case that
holds two or more drives, and install an internal HD and CD-ROM in it?
EZ135 drives with one cartridge can be had for about $120 mail order these
days.  Is this a good way to solve my backup problem and let me replace
my 80 Meg disk with a larger internal disk with relative ease (as in note 809)?

>   <<< Note 9.591 by NOTIME::SACKS "Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085" >>>
>
>What's the most cost-effective way of doing this?  

Just my recommendation....add up what you will spend for the CD, more
memory, bigger HD, etc. etc.

and then compare it to the cost of a whole new computer with
builtin CD, 16MB (and you may want more), a BIG internal HD, etc.

When I found the 180MHz PowerPC 6400 with 1.6GB HD, 16MB, 8X CD,
28.8 modem internal and too much softare...for $1199, I bought
it.  I kept my old monitor and felt it was a great upgrade!

You can find small HDs (800MB is now small) at www.onsale.com
now and then.  They used to be there every auction but now its
spotty.  Buy one and put it in a case....ANY case.  It will most likely
fit right inside your current machine since it does not require
a 1/3 height drive.  a 1.5GB SyJet (external drive) is only $500.
A 1.2GB (or so) internal HD is about $300, add 50-100 to make it external.

for memory, its hard to beat www.thechipmerchant.com
even most used memory I see advertised is higher than their price.
It has dropped so fast, people want to get their money back.
bob

    BTW, I recently bought an 16MB SIMM over at CompUSA in Nashua.
    With my Digital discount, I got it for $13 less than the price
    that the Chip Merchant was charging ($70 vs $83).  And that was 
    before you  added in the $7.50 shipping/handling charges.  
    
    				-John

I have a good reason for not upgrading to a PowerMac.  I have a Radius Pivot LC
monitor, and it doesn't pivot with PowerMacs.  I suppose I could look at more
modern 68K Macs with lots of builtin stuff, but I think I can get the hard disk,
memory, and CD-ROM for $600 or so.

>  A 1.2GB (or so) internal HD is about $300, add 50-100 to make it external.

$400 is overpriced for a 1.2 GB drive ... for the same money, you could buy a
2 GB external drive from APS (whose cases are praised elsewhere in this file).

    Re: .591
    
    As .592 suggested, seriously look at the cost of upgrade vs buing a new
    system.
    
    However, I understand the desire not to loose your monitor, so.
    
    Since you only have an 80MB disk, I would suggest just checking out the
    APS prices for an internal disk replacement and donate the 80MB disk to
    a school system (.592 is always looking for stuff for his school :-) 
    Seriously, it will cost you an extra $60 to $100 for an external case
    and you can either save the money, or buy an extra 1/2 GB of storage
    which more than offsets the lose of the 80MB disk.  APS has a 1.2GB
    internal for $249 and a 2.1GB internal for $299 (the same cost as the
    1.2GB in an external enclosure - so for the cost of an external
    enclosure you can have 800MB extra - junk the 80MB disk :-)
    
    The only reason to keep the 80MB disk is if you find you need to have a
    second boot disk (but an external removal disk would serve that purpose
    just as well - so junk the 80MB disk and get a large internal disk).
    
    I have done business with and like APS <http://www.apstech.com>
    
    The CompUSA employee discount sounds like a good deal.  but if someone
    hands you 4 30 pin SIMMs cheap take them.  If CompUSA discount doesn't
    work out, at least checkout the Chip Merchant.  I've been happy with
    them in the past.  <http://www.thechipmerchant.com>
    
    For the CD-ROM, you imply that you already have a CD-ROM.  If that is
    the case, then get an internal CD-ROM and swap it for the existing unit
    (unless you want multiple CD-ROM drives).  Swaping out the old for the
    new would save you the cost of an external enclosure.   APS has an
    internal for $172.
    
    Backup.  I like tape drives, but the least expensive I've seen for the
    Mac is $400 and the media cost $30 each (hold 4GB).  DAT drives run in
    the $700 range, but the tapes cost $8 each (holds 4GB).  The question
    is when does the cost of media cross over the initial purchase of the
    backup device.
    
    A lot of other people prefer removal disks.  You have already mentioned
    the EZ135 (and there is ZIP as well).  But if you get a 2GB internal
    disk, the cost of removal media to back it up can kill the initial
    price advantage.
    
    I would consider the Jaz or the SyJet 1+GB devices if you prefer
    removal storage.  With data compression, there is a good chance you can
    get most if not all of your 2GB disk onto one platter.  You will save
    money in the long run by not having to buy as many removal disks.
    
    Or, just get a removal 1+GB disk in the first place (ignore upgrading
    your 80MB disk and run off of the removal disk for your bulk storage
    needs).  This does make backups a bit more like fun since you don't
    have a backup device for your removable device.  So just get 2, but
    that is more expensive then 1 removable and an internal 2GB disk.  What
    fun :-)
    
    	$299	2GB internal
    	$279	CD-ROM internal
    	$599	Jaz w/3 disks (don't have a SyJet price handy :-)
        $120    four 4MB 30 pin SIMMs ($288 for 4 8MB SIMMs - Chip Merchant)
    --------
       $1297
    
    Obtaining used equipment will reduce that cost.  Skipping some of the
    items will reduce that cost (the backup device for example).
    
    Or you should consider the cost of a replacement monitor and just
    getting a new system.  Is it time and would it be the best use of your
    money.  You can also then use the IIsi as a system for the kids or
    donate it to a school (.592 is always looking for school donations :-)
    
    					Bob Harris
    

>    As .592 suggested, seriously look at the cost of upgrade vs buing a new
>    system.
>    You can also then use the IIsi as a system for the kids or
>    donate it to a school (.592 is always looking for school donations :-)

    I like it!  I'm thinking of changing my name!

    Over time I've done some of these things also...I bought my
    1X CD from a deccie who bought a machine with an internal.  I
    bought an EZ135 and love it, now also own an EZFlyer 230 (which
    can take the 135 cartridges!).  How can you live with only 80MB?
    I've got hundreds of MBs of kids software on EZ cartridges.
    the kids swap them back and forth.  I thought my old machine
    had a HUGE hard drive at 240MB....but I never did upgrade it.

    Ask around about dead Macs.  My office here at home now looks
    like a Mac graveyard.  But I've gotten many SIMMS from the
    dead Macs of friends (and they've all gone right into the
    LCs and MacPlus's at our school).  I got 8 1MB 30 pin simms
    from a friends dead MacIIcx.  A gold mine.  And he was
    throwing it away since 'the motherboard died'.

    Along the same line...I've gotten 'dead hard drives' from
    people in town...sometimes a 20MB old Apple HardDrive from a
    MacPlus, sometimes a newer one.  Rip out the old, dead Hard drive
    and put in a new internal one from APS (or elsewhere).
    ClubMac often has older SCSI hard drives for cheap.  I bought
    a dozen 200MB hard drives for $45 each for our school from
    WWW.ONSALE.COM.  they were Conner 30200's....1/3 height, pretty
    nice little drives.  You'll have to buy a SCSI cable and terminator.

    I was given a dead CD Drive and removed the CD and drilled a few holes
    and mounted a hard drive...the cables are all the same, works great.

    About upgrading your CD....in www.onsale.com I often see 3X or 4X
    internal SCSI CDs selling for about $40.  If you buy an NEC, you
    can download the driver from their Web Page (they all use the
    same driver).  There was a driver uploaded into the archives
    that claims to work on all CDs (and some discussion abuot the
    truth of that claim).  www.smalldoggy.com also often has pretty
    cheap internal CDs.  I agree....upgrade your existing one.

    But what you continue to have is a 25MH or so 68030?  maybe 50MHz?

    By 'upgrading' to the PowerPC I went from a 25MHz 68030 (LCIII)
    rated at 1/2 a Quadra 605 (the unit of measuer for Speedometer)
    to a machine rated at 5.5 times the 605.  a factor of 11.
    And it really shows when you edit or access the CD or surf the web.

    One more comment about backups...I recently backed up my 1.6GB
    hard drive...(not full yet).  I know there is backup software,
    but I just compressed my entire hard drive with Stuffit, which
    created a file 1/2 the size of my HD, and then segmented that file
    onto EZ230 Cartridges.  It took 2 cartridges plus a 30MB file
    (found room on a spare EZ135 cartridge).
    bob

>    For the CD-ROM, you imply that you already have a CD-ROM.  If that is
>    the case, then get an internal CD-ROM and swap it for the existing unit
>    (unless you want multiple CD-ROM drives).  Swaping out the old for the
>    new would save you the cost of an external enclosure.   APS has an
>    internal for $172.

Are CD-ROM drives as universally swappable as hard disks?

    Re: .598
    
>    Are CD-ROM drives as universally swappable as hard disks?
    
    In many ways they are similar to their Hard Disk cousins.  We are
    talking about SCSI based CD-ROMs here (not the IDE or EIDE PC style
    devices).
    
    The SCSI CD-ROMs have a SCSI ribbon cable connector and a 4 wire power
    plug on the back exactly like the SCSI disks.  And somewhere on the
    unit is a set of jumpers to set the SCSI address just like SCSI disks.
    
    And just like SCSI disks if you have a non-standard Apple unit, you
    need to provide a driver for it.  And there are 3rd party drivers
    available.
    
    A lot of people have hung Digital RRD CD-ROMs off of their Macs (along
    with most of the Digital SCSI disks as they could get their hands on
    them :-)
    
    And with a little patching to Retrospect you can also hang the Digital
    TLZ DAT drives off a Mac and use them for backing up your Mac (getting
    the right patch information is the trickie part - there is a note
    somewhere that covers this :-)
    
    					Bob Harris

>You can find small HDs (800MB is now small) at www.onsale.com
>now and then.

If I get one of these, won't I have to get a driver from somewhere?

>   <<< Note 9.600 by NOTIME::SACKS "Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085" >>>
>
>>You can find small HDs (800MB is now small) at www.onsale.com
>>now and then.
>
>If I get one of these, won't I have to get a driver from somewhere?

you will have to get a formatter....there has been lots of discussion
about formatters in this conf.  Some people swear by a patched version
of Apple's formatter.  The formatter writes the format, although
your disk is likely already formatted, and it creates the mac partitions
and writes the disk driver on the disk.

You may know someone who has bought a disk from APS or MacSale or some such
place and that disk likely came with a formatter.  when i bought disks
from www.onsale.com they did not come with any formatter.  ClubMac seems
to always send out the Anubis formatter.  Other places send
HardDiskToolkit PE (personal edition).

I bought HDT PE for about $50 or so..I was going to be installing all these
drives into machines at our school, so I wanted a good one.  I did not try
the patched driver.
bob

    re .601
    
    > I bought HDT PE for about $50 or so..I was going to be installing all
    > these drives into machines at our school...
    
    Technically, that is a violation of the license agreement, which states
    explicitly that you are permitted to use HDT on a single CPU only.

>      <<< Note 9.602 by SMURF::BINDER "Errabit quicquid errare potest." >>>
>
>    re .601
>    
>    > I bought HDT PE for about $50 or so..I was going to be installing all
>    > these drives into machines at our school...
>    
>    Technically, that is a violation of the license agreement, which states
>    explicitly that you are permitted to use HDT on a single CPU only.

really?
I did not install HDT on more than one machine....
I put the HDs in an external case and plug them into my machine at home
and format them all.  I can do this at my leasure any time.  Then I take
them into school  and copy the old drive to each without taking the
time to format them there.

Is it having driver on the HD that requires the license?  wow...didn't
realize that.  How about when I buy a pre-formatted drive?

    
    >> How about when I buy a pre-formatted drive?
    
    I guess the distributor already paid a fee to the editor of the
    formatter sowftare...
    
    As it is for a school and not for commercial activity, maybe you should
    call the editor of HDT and just ask for their agreement...  They might
    just send you a bunch of stickers "Drive Formatted with .... inside" ;-)
    
    	-- Olivier.
    

    Re .603
    
    Yes, it is the fact that the driver is on the "unlicensed" drive that
    is at issue.  With HDT 2.0, when you run the installer, a big window
    comes up - yellow background, black text, zebra-striped border, to
    remind you of the license limitations and giving a contact for multiple
    use queries.

    I have a Quadra 900 with 24 meg of memory.  For some time now, the
    memory panel shows that the o/s (S7.5.3) is using 17,600 K of this.  
    
    Doesn't this seem like too much?  I can't use Norton Disk Doctor on my
    400 meg disk drive--not enough memory.
    
    /Joan

Is 32-bit addressing enabled in the memory control panel? It should be.

re: .606

17.6MB does seem like a lot.
The usual cause is wanton installation of inits and extensions
and incomplete weeding out of de-installed software.
What's the partition when you restart with extensions off (shift key held
down during startup)?  The difference between normal and no-extensions
is your "optional" loads.

Do you have a startup manager like Now Utilities or Conflict Catcher
or even Apple Extension Manager that you can use to test-purge your
extensions?

- tom]

> <<< Note 9.607 by TAMARA::TAMARA::CLARK "Lee Clark,DTN:381-0422,TeamLinks" >>>
>                                 -< RE: 9.606 >-
>
>Is 32-bit addressing enabled in the memory control panel? It should be.

I believe that this is the correct answer...check this right away.
If 32 bit addressing is not enabled, the memory over 8MB (?) is
charged to the system...

try rebooting with the shift key down and see what you get....if its
still high I'ld be even surer this is it
bob

    re my question in 9.606 regarding system memory usage:
    
    32-bit addressing was not enabled in the memory control panel.  I
    turned it on and now the system uses about 7.7M of the 24M.  Thanks to all.
    
    Joan

    What is the new "DVD-ROM" I saw on the cover of one of my Mac
    magazines?  I didn't notice the term spelled out in the portion of the
    column I was reading.  
    
    Also, I've read a couple of extremely favorable articles in a couple of
    different papers about the eMate that is being marketed to the "school"
    population only.  If there is such a promising market out there in the
    adult community, why isn't Apple capitalizing on it?????
    
    Thanks...
    Lorraine  

>    What is the new "DVD-ROM" I saw on the cover of one of my Mac
>    magazines?  I didn't notice the term spelled out in the portion of the
>    column I was reading.
    
    I think - Digital Video Disk.  The idea is to have a replacement for
    VCRs the way CD-ROMs replaced the old 45 and 33 1/3 LP records in the
    music industry.  The DVD disks can hold several Gigabytes of storage
    and come in single layer single sided, double layer single sided,
    single layer double sided, and double layered doubled sided variations. 
    The multiple layers come from different optics in reading the side so
    they are able to actually double the storage on a side.
                                                  
    There is sufficient storage on a DVD-ROM to show a full length movie in
    the new High Definition TV format.
    
    But since the Computer industry got in on the game early they are also
    good for anything that a CD-ROM was good (software distribution,
    multi-media products and games, etc...), except that you can now put a
    ton of additional stuff on them (for example, I just got the game
    Obsidian which comes on 5 CD-ROMs - if DVD were common, then I could
    have gotten just one DVD and had room to spare of the disk).
    
>    Also, I've read a couple of extremely favorable articles in a couple of
>    different papers about the eMate that is being marketed to the "school"
>    population only.  If there is such a promising market out there in the
>    adult community, why isn't Apple capitalizing on it?????
    
    Does anyone else have information on eMate?
    
    
    					Bob Harris

> Does anyone else have information on eMate?

http://cgi.info.apple.com/cgi-bin/read.wais.doc.pl?
/wais/TIL/Newton/eMate!300/Apl!eMate!300!Prod!DescApple eMate 300: Product Description (2/97)

               ======================================================================

               Article Created: 18 February 1997

               TOPIC
               -----------------------------------------------------------

               This article contains the product description for the Apple eMate 300.

               DISCUSSION
               ------------------------------------------------------

               General Information
               ===================

               Designed for Education By Educators
               -----------------------------------
               The Apple eMate 300 is the first of a new class of affordable mobile
               computer that works as a companion to Mac OS- and Windows
               software-based computers in a Distributed Learning Environment (see
               back page). Developed in collaboration with educators to meet the specific
               needs of education, the eMate 300's unique industrial design is rugged
               enough to withstand the rigors of being carried, shared, and used in a
               variety of environments. The eMate 300 is easily portable for even the
               youngest students-it weighs only 4 pounds and is small enough to fit in a
               backpack. And it lets users enter data by keyboard, or with a stylus, so
               students can work the way that's best for them.

               The eMate 300 features the powerful and easy-to-use Newton operating
               system. It comes with built-in software applications that are important for
               learning-including word processing, drawing, spreadsheet, a graphing
               calculator, address book, calendar functions,and more. In addition, the
               eMate 300 can take advantage of hundreds of applications that have been
               developed for Newton 2.0, as well as applications designed specifically for
               education.

               Gives More Students Access to the Technology They Need
               ------------------------------------------------------
               While there are more computers in the classroom today than ever before,
               there are still not enough to go around. At an affordable price and with
               personalized workspace for multiple students, the eMate 300 makes
               technology accessible to a greater number of students than is possible with
               desktop computers.

               Allows Students to Learn Wherever Learning Takes Them
               -----------------------------------------------------
               The versatile functionality of the eMate 300 lets students do the majority
               of their critical learning wherever it's most appropriate-in the classroom, in
               libraries, in a lab, outdoors, or at home. With its incredibly long battery life
               and backlit screen that displays the width of a full written page, the eMate
               300 makes it possible for students to work wherever they want, for as long
               as they want.

               Easy Communication and Networking
               ---------------------------------
               Robust communications capabilities make the eMate 300 an especially
               useful tool in a Distributed Learning Environment. Students can share data
               and files they create on the eMate 300, with both Mac OS-and Windows
               software-based computers.* By doing preliminary work on the eMate 300
               and then enhancing it on a desktop computer, students can use the eMate
               300 as a perfect companion to the computers that already exist in the
               classroom or at home. The serial port, Newton InterConnect Port, and PC
               Card slot makes it easy to print, share, and backup any work done on the
               eMate 300. TCP/IP capabilities-the protocol of the Internet-give students
               access to materials on the World Wide Web, and lets them send and
               receive e-mail so they can conduct research and keep on top of lessons.
               And with built-in infrared technology, the eMate 300 lets educators and
               students "beam" their work to one another for quick, easy file sharing.

               * note: cables not included.

               What is a Distributed Learning Environment?
               -------------------------------------------
               A Distributed Learning Environment provides learning for anyone, anytime,
               anywhere. It extends the reach of learning from the classroom to the
               library, lab, home, local communi-ties, and the world. In the best
               Distributed Learning Environments, educators and students are able to
               take full advantage of a range of technology to make the extended learning
               environment more meaningful, effective, and engaging.

               Four Elements for Successful Learning
               -------------------------------------
               Apple's support of the Distributed Learning Environment concept is based
               on its commitment to four critical elements of successful learning
               experiences:
               * Information access.
               Students and teachers need convenient access to information no matter
               where it resides.

               * Communication and collaboration.
               Students and teachers need to be able to com-municate and collaborate
               with other students, colleagues, and experts, anytime, anywhere.

               * Multisensory experiences.
               Students and teachers need multimedia tools for understanding and
               expression, in addition to traditional educational methods, to help them
               communicate ideas in the way that is most appropriate to the task and
               compatible with diverse learning styles.

               * Convenient, mobile tools.
               Students and teachers need personal learning materials (pencils, books,
               calculators, etc.) that are convenient, creative, and mobile support
               tools.

               Building on schools' investments
               --------------------------------
               As learning extends from the classroom to the home, local community, and
               the world, students and educators require a range of technology tools.
               Many schools already have some of the core technology components of a
               Distributed Learning Environment.

               * Desktop computers-either Mac OS- or Windows software-based. This
               includes multimedia computers that are dedicated to letting students
               experience powerful, creative, multi-sensory learning by integrating text,
               video, sound, and graphics in their work.

               * Peripheral products-such as printers, scanners, and digital cameras.

               * Networks-which could range from a simple connection to a printer, to a
               local network of personal computers, to a connection to a server.

               * Affordable, mobile computer technologies-that function as a personal
               companion to existing desktop technologies in the classroom, school, and
               home.

               Until now, few schools have had all of the core components of a
               Distributed Learning Environ-ment because low-cost, mobile technologies
               were not available. Now, the missing technology link in supporting the
               learning process is found in the Apple eMate 300-the first in a new class
               of truly affordable, mobile computers that act as companions and
               extensions to schools' existing desktop computers.

               Giving more students access to the technology they need
               -------------------------------------------------------
               The Apple eMate 300 fulfills the vision of a Distributed Learning
               Environment. It is an affordable mobile computer that lets teachers create
               a learning environment in which students have the appropriate tools to
               gather data, access the information they need, express their thoughts,
               communicate with one another, and collaborate on solving problems.
               Designed in collaboration with leading educators all across the country, the
               eMate 300 is the perfect companion to existing technology in the
               classroom, school, or home, with capabilities that make it an excellent tool
               of discovery and productivity. It is lightweight and rugged, and comes with
               built-in applica-tions and communications capabilities that let students
               work anyplace, anytime. What's more, it's available at a price that makes
               it possible to provide more students than ever access to the technology
               they need to get their work done and acquire skills that prepare them for
               lifelong success.


               Key Features:
               The Apple eMate 300
               ===================

               Built-in applications:
               ----------------------
               * Word processor, drawing program, spreadsheet, graphing calculator,
               address book, calendar functions and more

               Power and speed:
               ----------------
               * 25-MHz ARM 710a RISC processor
               * High-speed infrared (IrDA) port for transferring data wirelessly at up to
               115 kilobits per second within 3.3 feet (1 meter)

               Memory and storage:
               -------------------
               * 3MB of RAM (1MB of DRAM and 2MB of flash memory); 8MB of ROM

               Display:
               --------
               * 480- by 320-pixel gray-scale LCD with back-lighting; displays up to 16
               shades of gray

               Sound:
               ------
               * Built-in speaker and sound input/output ports

               Expansion:
               ----------
               * PC Card slot for Type I, Type II, or Type III PC Cards (PCMCIA)
               * Slots for upgrading software, operating system, and memory
               * Serial port for connecting to printers and AppleTalk networks
               * Newton InterConnect serial port for LocalTalk and RS-232-compatible
               serial connections, modem, power input/output, sound input/output, and
               automatic docking to personal computers*

               * note: cables not included.

               Size, weight and battery:
               -------------------------
               * Dimensions: 12.0 by 11.4 by 2.1 inches (305 by 290 by 53 millimeters)
               * Weight: 4 pounds (1.8 kilograms)
               * Battery: Up to 28 hours of continuous use without recharging, depending
               on usage

               Printer support:
               ----------------
               * Works with the following Apple printers: Personal LaserWriter LS,
               Personal LaserWriter 300, and StyleWriter printers; PostScript-equipped
               LaserWriter printers
               * Works with most popular PC printers using the optional Newton Print
               Pack.

               Information about Apple Education products and services can also be
               found on the Internet at http://education.apple.com/

               Copyright 1997, Apple Computer, Inc.

               ======================================================================

               Created: 2/18/97
               Author: WFB
               Source: SSE
               Library: TECHINFO
               Article ID: TECHINFO-0020992