Conference 7.286::digital

    You took the words right out of my mouth Jack. Thanks for expressing
    some of what "exactly" needs to be said in these tough times. Tobin
    Corp. is really sleazy AND! dis-honest.

    Opps, sorry "AL". where did I get the name Jack? hmmm.
    

    For that tiny fraction of the Corporation not located in E. Mass. and
    S. New Hampshire (U.S.A.), this string of notes is discussing the bad
    food at the GMA regional company picnic. 
    
    Obviously, if you have complaints about the food or any other aspect of
    your own regional company picnic, you should start a brand new topic,
    one per picnic, one per year. Nobody from GMA will mind plowing through
    them all :-)

           Yeah, they changed the set-up this year, where the food is far
           away from where it's cooked.  I guess they never heard of JIT.
           
           Steve
           
           PS- But the bees seemed to like it!

    I simply cannot believe that they give you-all turkeys and canobie lake
    outings when the Field gets absolutely nothing and with the state of
    the company, it is a complete waste of money ...
    
    When I worked out of the Boston office I went to canobie and it wasn't
    even worth it.

    Tobin is Tobin, we (those of us that have been going for yrs and yrs )
    know what we're going to get.. well, NOT THIS YEAR...
    
    This year - I thought it was just me.. I've been with DEC for over
    18 yrs, and this is the first time I thought someone else must have
    done the food... it was awful.... the table arrangement left much to be
    desired IMHO also.
    
    I'm surprised we're still having Canobie Lake as a benefit with the way
    the state of the company is.  If it's not here next year, I will
    miss it.
    
    Marie
    
    

    	Yeah, we really are spoiled here in the Northeast where the bennies
    just keep on comin'! Canobie Lake, turkeys, discount movie tickets...
    What's next? Sky's the limit.

    Maybe someone should start a note about Tobin Vending service.

    It used to be that we went to the Tobin (Digital) cafeteria to
    save money.  Now, I think people go to McDonalds to save money.

    :-)

    
    Is it possible that Digital has a contract with Canobie Lake for so
    many years, and that it can't be broken?  Or that it's one of those
    things that makes sense tax-wise?  If not, I think it's a waste too,
    even though I like such niceties in principle.
    
    I didn't go, but I've heard about how bad the food and hornets were.
    
    CQ

  How far away is the food serving area from the cooking area now? Did anyone
get an upset stomach from eating the Tobin's food there?
  I agree that the outing doesn't make sense in the current state of the com-
pany.

    Two members of my family had an upset stomach and had to stop by the
    road to get rid of it. But we blamed it on one of the crazy rides that
    they went on. So why were there so many bees this year?

    The bees (yellowjackets, actually) were a product of nature and not
    under Tobin's control.  I wish I could say the same for the food.  The
    only things that weren't cold were the beans and the coffee.  This is
    the first year that I've gone that I bought food from the Canobie park
    concessions.  I think if this picinic were to be continued, they should
    consider giving people coupons to spend on the food concessions.  It
    would very likely be cheaper, given the waste of all the unpalatable
    food I saw thrown in the barrels.
    

    	We went to Canobie Lake Park yesterday fully expecting to die
    of food poisoning and/or be attacked by killer hornets.  When we got
    there and finally worked up the courage to go eat lunch, we were
    surprized to have one of the more pleasant eating experiences we
    have had there in a while.

    	The hornets are bad everywhere this year (due in large part to
    Hurricane Bob), but they seemed to congregate around the soda fountains
    and didn't seem too interested in either the food tents or the people.

    	As for the Tobin cuisine, I had no complaints with anything other
    than the corn (which was overcooked and cold).  Other than that, I was
    quite fulfilled.  I was even treated to a double-burger by an elderly
    Tobin employee who must have thought I looked hungry (much to the
    chagrin of a pregnant friend of mine who always seems to be given
    much smaller portions due to her petite size even though she is
    currently ravenous)!

   	On a related note, we had quite a lively discussion at our
    lunch table, where we discussed many of the things which get discussed
    in this notesfile (various memos, VPs leaving, the ongoing RIFs (oops,
    I mean "TSFO"s), etc., and were cautious to look around whenever
    mentioning any juicy rumors (to make sure none of the subjects of
    our conversation were within hearing distance).  After we got up
    and got ready to return to the rides, I suddenly realized that we
    had been sitting directly behind Bob Glorioso!

    				   -davo

p.s.	Ironically, Bob Glorioso didn't even come up in the conversation,
    	and if he had, it would probably have been in glowing terms
    	as he is one of the few VP's who ever showed enough interest
   	in the work I was doing to stop and talk to me about it (he'll
    	be missed).

We went yesterday, and are still grateful Digital does this, and proud
to be an employee of a company where other employees still care enough
to do this.

Before I was married and a parent, I felt that there should be an
alternative for single folks without kids. I still do. But now that I'm
in a position to appreciate it more, I'm happy to be able to say thanks
to the folks who work so hard to make it happen, Tobin people included.

See you all again next year, Mitsubishi willing :-).

    I would think the cost for renting Canobie for a day is cheap
    considering the time of year and the number of people that attend.

    Tobins however should be put to pasture. Unless you like stale bread
    rolls, uncooked hotdogs, overcooked corn, or rock hard burgers
    you couldn't help but be disappointed in the food.

    The ice cream was good and the beans were edible. Couldn't get
    close enough to the soda fountains for a full cup thanks to the bees
    (although there were fewer this year than last).
    
    All in all we had fun. Next year I'll pack a lunch.
    
    At least the bees weren't as aggressive as last year.
    
    Doug.

    
    Went to Canobie yesterday.  Weather was great, food okay, bees
    atrocious.  Kids had fun and that's the most important thing...
    
    
    Marc

           {EXTRACTED FROM VTX DELTA, 24-JUL-1991}


Employee Appreciation Events

During economic times like the one we are currently in, Digital continues to
examine many avenues in our effort to be more profitable.  Many of you have
written to Delta over time to express concern for expenditures in the Employee
Appreciation area.  Some think we need to do more and some think we need to do
less!  We have again examined our position on special appreciation events like
Canobie Lake and the distribution of Turkeys.  These events take a considerable
time to prepare and decisions must be made well in advance of any such event.

Our Executive Committee strongly supports our continued efforts to recognize
and appreciate our employees efforts during these stressful times.  They
continue to support these two events taking place.  Our need to say thank you
to each employee is even more evident today, than it has ever been in our past.
Appreciation events such as these allow us to take a moment and reflect on
each persons contributions to Digital.  Therefore, we will hold our Canobie
Lake Park event and we will distribute turkeys.

    We seem to go over the same discussion on the food each year.
    
    Tobins donates the food and labor in return for us using them during
    the year.  Its the same stuff they feed us during the year, same
    quality.  So if your compl;aining [and I'm not saying your wrong], you
    probably aren't one of their customers to begin with, so your getting
    an 'extra' bonus.  you can elect to take it, or eat at one of the 
    other places in the park as you did eat out at other places then the
    DEC cafe during the year.
    

    My family and I had a nice time on Saturday, 28 Sept. However, my son,
    a 7-year-old highly-accurate and quite strong baseball thrower, thought
    that he'd give the pitching speed  game a try. This is the booth where
    you get to throw 3 baseballs at a canvas target of a cather, and radar
    displays your throwing speed. If you guess the speed of your third
    pitch, you win some useless prize. Well, my little fireballer went to
    work after I payed my $1. He threw at 33 MPH, then at 34 MPH. Next, his
    guess was that he'd throw at 34 MPH. He rears back, fires, and hits 34
    MPH! Well, he still lost, because the sign says "Correctly guess your
    third pitch speed AND pitch a strike and you are a winner." Well, he
    missed hitting the catcher, so he DID NOT win after all. WHat a drag,
    that kid was bummed. The event operator (must have been a whole 14
    years old!) would not budge from his position. My kid lost, period. 
    
    The moral of this story? Read between the signs.
    
    Mike Taylor

    I started this note not to put down the outing i think it's great for
    the family to spend time with other digital family we work with.
    My problem was with the food....as i read the other notes people have
    sent in i see not every one was as disappointed as myself but the 
    majority were and thats what this is all about if the majority of
    people that went feel that the food was sub par we should do something
    about it ..if i would have been paying for this out of my pocket i
    know i would have asked for a REFUND... Someone wrote and stated that
    the food and labor was donated by Tobin..NOT A CHANCE OK...beleave me
    Digital pay very well for what we DON'T EAT....There must be someone
    out there who knows who to contact..
    
    LET THIS BE THE LAST TIME WE LET TOBIN WIN......
    
    
                                                      Al

Here is the OFFICIAL word of this employee....

I want to say THANKS and I am glad the E.C. has made the decision that they
have. All I can say is, that I will continue to take advantage of the gesture
of a day of fun and enjoyment, cold food or hot served by Tobin's or some
other caterer.
If this makes me selfish, so be it. 

    
    Dear Ken,
    
    Went to the outing yestarday. Thanks for a great time. Heard all the
    complaining about the food. Yes, the corn could have been a little
    crunchier, but as to the cold hamburgers, you and I know how hard it
    it is to throw a cook-out at the end of September and keep all the
    food warm. Straighten out Tobin's act? We have more interesting windmills
    at which to tilt our lances!
    
    Bottom line -- we opened the place up and closed it down, the kids
    slept all the way home with full stomachs and smiles on their grubby
    faces, and then talked about it until I forced them into bed. Maybe
    some cold night this winter, when I'm working late and don't get home
    in time to say goodnight, they'll remember a fun outing on a autumn
    day, or a warm turkey dinner, and think "All in all, not too shabby..."
    
    Thanks again.
    
    Wild
    

    I REALLY APPRECIATE THE CANOBIE LAKE OUTINGS!  Cold corn, hard burgers
    ... it doesn't matter to us!  They still taste great to us and they
    don't cost us anything!  Folks, there are people that volunteer to help
    with all that stuff out of the goodness of their hearts and the desire
    to do the right thing!  Let's not aim our sarcasm at these folks!  They
    deserve our respect and appreciation!  
    
    Steve (looking forward to Canobie Lake!)

    I'm with .24 and .25. Of all the years that we've been going last year
    they had decent tasting and hot food it was great.  So the food was
    terrible... we took the kids for the enjoyment of the park not for 
    the food.  I think they just need to put the arrangement back to how it
    was in years past, near the grill so it won't be as cold as it was
    this weekend.  
    
    And as for the majority of people complaining, I saw a lot more people
    at the park on Saturday than the few notes I've seen here so I don't
    think the majority are complaining.  As some have said, it's Tobin's we
    should know what to expect!  Bring your own lunch next year or stand
    in line at a concession stand but don't let the food be the focuss
    of your day of rides and entertainment with the family.

    SO, if Tobin's are so bad, why not let canteen Corp, who do ZKO (and
    possibly other facilities) cafeteria. Much as we complain at ZKO, they
    seem to be far better than Tobins, and are closer...
    
    If that doesnt work, can we get the army cooks from Ft Devens. Even
    Army chow has got to be an improvement. 
    
    q
    

    As a field employee, we do not receive the benefit of this outing
    for our familys, or the turkey. There use to be a fund for a holiday
    party that now has also gone away. I guess my message is at least
    your family gets something.Given  the state of the company, I do
    not expect anything, but to hear the tone of this note, I get
    angry that we expect so much, other than our pay.

    I'm with .24 & .25.  If Canobie was billed as a *restaurant*, then we'd
    (clearly) have something to complain about.  But it's billed as an
    amusement park, my family & kids look forward to it, and clearly a
    "good time was had by all".  As an amusement park, I think Canobie
    lived up to its expectations, and I for one am thankful that such a
    perk is still allowed in these economic times.  If I'm shopping for a
    new car, I *don't* go to the local appliance store to complain about
    the lack of decent car selections there.
    
    Jon

    for all those who are annoyed with the *food* and whatever else.
    I have the perfect solution.
    
    NEXT YEAR; STAY HOME!
    
    That will leave more space for those of us who appreciate any 
    thing like this that really isn't mandated but done as an act of
    appreciation. I've been around here most of the time since '68.
    
    My kids are grown. My wife and I love the day of rest and all the
    memories my kids have of "DEC day at Canobie lake".
    
    To those grumpers; When you are invited out to friends house for a
    meal, do you also ask for a doggy bag or ask for change?
    
    
    In appreciation,
    Mike

>                     <<< Note 1612.29 by GRANPA::TDAVIS >>>
>    Given  the state of the company, I do
>    not expect anything, but to hear the tone of this note, I get
>    angry that we expect so much, other than our pay.

I read this note string as concern that the Company (DEC) isn't getting what
it (presumably) pays for on our behalf, not that the complainers were
whining for their own sake.
If your mother spends good money on a birthday present for you, and it 
breaks, is your first thought that your mother is a cheapskate or that 
she got ripped off?

- tom]

I hate to ask a dumb question but what outing are you guys taking about?  I have
been working in Stow for about a year now and didn't even know we were having 
one.  

I thought company picnics were on hold because of the cost.  

I went to a outdoor function that I paided to get in a couple of weekends ago.  
I also paid for the cold food.  The choice was clear, I didn't buy anymore 
food but I still had a good time.  O'well thats my 2 cents.


Regards


Bob

    Bob,
      If you're in OGO, then your Canobie Lake outing is Oct. 12, ticket
    distribution is probably today and tomorrow. You should have received
    your ticket request forms with your check a week or so ago.
    
    Debbie
    

	re: all

	While I agree that the food was pretty bad, I have gone every
	year and enjoyed myself.  I appreciate that the company puts
	this on for us New Englanders.  I am surprised that something
	is not done for employees elsewhere in the country.  It doesn't
	quite seem fair.  

	What makes me mad... I'm really surprised no-one has mentioned
	this... is the employees who take advantage of this outing to
	bring people they are not entitled to bring.  I was asked by
	SEVERAL people in my group for my tickets if I did not go because
	they wanted to bring their brother and his family, or their
	neighbor or friends.  This is not fair at all!  Digital pays
	for this outing for their EMPLOYEES and families!  It costs
	money!  I expect that at least 5% of the people who went to
	Canobie should not have been there.  People are losing their
	jobs and people in other parts of the country are not able to
	go to Canobie Lake and DIGITAL is subsidizing this outing for
	non-entitled people!  Not to mention the long lines for the
	rides.....

	I know that it says that tickets and badges must be presented
	to enter but I didn't show my badge.  I wonder how much money
	DEC would save on this outing if they just checked badges!

	Karen

    -1
    
    Karen,
    
    Other parts of the country have had outings in the past....but the
    very abuse you mentioned, i.e. people bringing others who are not
    members of their immediate family is exactly what cost the Atlanta
    area the type of annual outing it has enjoyed in years past.
    
    I did not attend the company picnic last year....it was held at a
    water park that I had visited many times.  No one asked me for my
    ticket (or the guest ticket I was entitled to).....from what I
    understand people showed up with 3 times the number of folks who
    were actually family members, i.e. friends of their children etc.
    Because this water park had based their fee on one estimate of people and
    3 times that many showed up, they charged Digital for the extra
    head count (as well they should); the extra people would have
    been charged an entrance fee if they had driven there on any other day.
    Apparently the money that was needed to pay for the abuse last year
    all but wiped out any chances for a similar outing this year.  A small
    event was held right here on the grounds at ALF.
    
    Some folks grumbled this year, but why pick on the organizers.  I 
    still can't figure out why it was so difficult to get a handle on
    the situation last year.....personnel profiles should be able to
    provide a fairly clear estimate of actual employees and their families.
    
    Karen
    

    Re .35

    My wife and I did not go to Canobie Lake this year.  It was one of
    the few times we have missed it in over 20 years.  I did not give
    our tickets to anyone else, but if it had been possible I probably 
    would have done so.

    How would Digital save money by our not being there?  Would they
    have saved some cooked hamburgers or corn-on-the-cob for the following
    weekend?  Maybe they saved a couple of dollars on ice cream bars
    that we didn't eat.  Probably hiring additional people to check
    everyone's Digital badges, and the number of their 'guests' would
    have cost a lot more than the amount that DEC would have saved, and
    the irritation caused by people having to wait in line while their
    children were being counted, would be incredible.

    On the other hand, if I *had* been able to give my ticket to someone
    else, it would have given me a lot of pleasure and satisfaction to
    know that [for example] some co-worker's child was able to have a 
    better time as a result of being able to bring a friend.  It would
    have made me feel the same as I have on occasion when I contributed
    our Christmas turkey to a charity.

    I feel badly that people are losing their jobs.  I think a good case
    could be made for discontinuing the Canobie Lake outings -- at least
    until Digital's profitability returns to normal; but I don't see
    any connection with a few people sharing tickets for Canobie, and
    others losing their jobs.  I see a lot of waste going on at Digital
    every day, in areas where nobody seems to care.  That does make 
    me mad.

    IMHO,
     Chuck

    
    	Doesn't Digital pay acording to how many empolyees request tickets?
    If I'm intitled to 5 tickets and request that many doesn't DEC pay for
    that many wether I go or not.  If this is so then it would be a waste 
    not to give them to somebody that wants to go if for some reason I
    can't.
    
    Joe

    	Well I got the tickets for our outing and my Name and badge was
    written on each ticket. I was supprised to find the tickets this way
    but it didn't bother me. others were a different story... lot's of 
    complaints like " If I want to give my ticket to someone else, why
    shouldn't I be able to" or "What am I going to do when my Grandson
    gives a ticket with someone elses name on it?". 
    
    Mike

    re: a few back
    
    My understanding is that DEC pays a flat fee to Canobie lake for 
    this event. The food and labor are donated by Tobin's. If fewer people
    show up there is no rebate. If more attend there is no surcharge. 

I fail to understand why Canobie would even care if more people than
expected showed up. It would be totally to their favor if more did
show up. The park is open til 5pm period, therefore, no more of an
expense is incurred. However, the park does have some of it's own
booths open, i.e. games of chance, food, etc, etc. It would be
to the parks advantage to have a large of a crowd as possible attend.
The losers are the employees and their family as the more people 
attend the less rides on the attractions they get.

- George

    It is my understanding that Tobin get 10 percent over there food and
    labor cost so the more your throw away the more they get payed....
    also who verifies how much food tobin says we ate??????

    I cannot verify this as fact as I was told this by someone who has
    attended several Canobie Lake outings.  He has seen some of the 
    people who live in the area climb over the back fence to take
    advantage of a free day of rides and food.  
    
    IMHO
    
    If Digital does pay for the food, then it would be normal procedure
    to put the contract out for bid.  If Tobin comes in with the lowest
    bid, they would be hired.  It would be nice if companies stopped
    this practice and hired vendors based on quality, not price.
    
    Linda
    

    
    	I would think that Digital pays a flat rate for the day, seeing as
    	the entire place is reserved *only* for DEC employees. Whether 20
    	people or 20,000 people go, it's not as if Canobie could have
    	squeezed a few more paying patrons in. The place is Digital's for
    	the day, so I'm sure 'we' pay a flat rate for the place that day.
    
    	I went. But if I didn't go, I'd rather have someone else's children
    	able to enjoy it instead of having this event 'go to waste' when it is 
    	already paid for. I'm more concerned about the number of people who
    	do not go... if everyone stays home, why bother running the thing
    	and reserving the entire place just for a handful of interested people?
    
    	-Erik

    As a big amusement park fan, I look forward to Canobie Lake every year.
    But I have a BIG problem. I love going with a crowd, and the majority
    of my friends don't work at my site. So, for the past several years,
    I've been one of those abusers who borrows people's tickets from other
    sites and gets a big group together. There have never been more
    non-DECies than DEC'ies, we just don't feel like waiting 'til October
    to go.
    
    This year, my date was October, the first time since I've started that
    we had such a late date. So I obtained tickets from a couple in another
    plant, and planned to go with friends in September. It rained...
    
    I'm going on my appointed day.
    
    I don't think of myself as an abuser. I don't take more than my
    allotted number of tickets, DEC wide. I just don't always go on the day
    I'm supposed to... or some of my friends don't. Its not like we go
    twice that year. It surprises me that DEC doesn't consider the fact
    that many of us make strong connections to people other sites, and make
    provisions for us to swap tickets, instead of penalizing us and giving
    us a day in October. After all, we're a networking company, right? 
              

    At one time it was possible to request a different date than the one
    assigned to your site. I did it myself once. Personnel arranged with 
    one of the assigned sites to obtain some tickets for you. I suspect the
    logistics became so complicated that the "your site day or the
    alternate day" policy was enacted. 
    
    That isn't always great, either. Was it three years ago that a number 
    of the days were rained out? The last day was so crowded people could 
    barely move around the park, and Tobin ran out of food. People were
    getting a greasy, cold hamburger on their plates without a bun. Yech!!
    
    Linda   

    My children love to go to Canobie Lake.  But we now go only during the
    summer.  Both of my children requested that I NOT get tickets to the
    outing for the past several years. Why?  Because it was too crowded.
    I refuse to give my tickets to others because it is causes some of
    the overcrowding and frankly, they're not entitled to them.  They are
    entitled to self and guest or spouse, children and guest -- period.
    
    Besides, this is supposed to be a FAMILY outing.  My idea of a family
    outing is parents spending time with their children rather than
    children spending time with their friends.
    
    Judy

    Does anyone know what happened this past Saturday, 10/12?  It was my
    alternate date, and upon arrival at the park there was a sign
    "Postponed until Sunday" with no other explanation.  I was pretty
    disappointed, although VERY glad I did not have a carload of children,
    like so many of the other arrivals.  It was a nice foliage tour driving
    up there, but that's not exactly why I went.
    
    
    							Fred

    It was announced here about mid-afternoon on Friday that it was
    postponed because of predicted bad weather for Saturday.  Actually the
    weather here was not as bad as predicted, but I don't know about
    Canobie Lake; there were some heavy rainstorms south and east of here
    (HLO), so there may have been some in that area as well.  Plus some of
    the rides cannot be operated in high winds, which we had all day.  You
    were supposed to listen to some Am radio station (I think) for info if
    the weather looked iffy.
    
    /Charlotte

    I heard announcements on WBZ radio that the "Digital family outing for
    Saturday was postponed until Sunday". I heard them several times
    between 9:00am and noon.

While I made it on our site's regular day,
our site personnel sent out email on Friday indicating that the alternate
date was postponed. (Good work, Debbie.) (She also sent out mail detailing
who was eligible for tickets, when they were being distributed.) Perhaps we just
have better personnel than other sites.

On other years, when the weather was uncertain, I've called Canobie. I don't 
have the number, but you can get it from long-distance information, or local
information, if you live in NH. The call is a lot cheaper than the gas.

    Thanks for the info, folks.  Funny, I've been going for 8 years now
    and wasn't aware of the "procedure".  It might be nice if it was
    printed on the tickets.
    
    Of course, the fact that THE WEATHER WAS FINE only adds insult to
    injury.  I've been there in the rain, and gotten a little soggy but had
    a fine time.  Live and learn, I guess.
    
    
    							Fred
    

    Yeah, we were informed of the day change also. The problem was that for
    a number of Wage class 2's, the info came out 5 minutes after they went
    home. Some showed up and found that the park was closed. I was some
    angry, when I saw what the actual weather was like on Saturday. I ended
    up disappointing the children because our travel arraingments could not
    be set up for Sunday. (Sat. was the only possible day for us). I ended
    up venting this anger through judicious use of my rake and I now have
    some extremely chatised leaves. :-) I am disappointed by the way this
    was hadled. Bad enough that our site missed it's regularly scheduled
    day because it was on our EOQ work Saturday and now this has to happen.
    
    Phil

The "procedures" for determining cancellations, and reschedules are printed
in the (this year) green folder.  They have been every year I have gone that
I read the thing.

    	I don't want to start a debate on whether or not the company should
    hold this outing. I'm only curious, giving the current financial
    climate, if the Canobie Lake outing is still "on" this year. One of my
    kids asked me, and I hadn't heard anything...And, yes, I know I can
    take them any time and just pay myself.

I don't know for sure, but a memo from Personnel included their calendar,
and it included Canobie. I guess its on this year.

Here's from a memo from personnel I received this morning:

       Digital's family outings will be held again at Canobie Lake Park in
       Salem, New Hampshire.  The Southern New Hampshire site dates are as
       follows:

       Sunday - September 20                 Saturday - October 10
       ---------------------                 ---------------------
              NIO                             DDD        DOO
              NUO                             DSG        GSF
              TTB                             MKO        NQO
              ZKO

And I thought Westford (DSG) was in Mass....

    I just  recieved  a forwarded memo that came from our site Canobie Lake
    cordinator  stating that  this  years  outing  has  been  cancelled  by
    Corporate and it's be posted in Livewire today.
    
    Has anyone been able to get into livewire?
    
    our vtx server has been unavailable for a while now.
    
    CLaude

    
    I just checked livewire and saw nothing re: canobie

    If so, why did I get my coupon for tickets yesterday???
    
    -sandy
    

    			Look what I just got!!!!!
    
    
From:	WECARE::LAPERLE "Terri, OSAG Personnel, 381-0683  21-Aug-1992 1123" 21-AUG-1992 11:20:36.68
To:	@MGRSUPV.DIS,@SEC.DIS
CC:	LAPERLE
Subj:	UPDATE - Canobie Lake

*********  PLEASE DISTRIBUTE TO ALL EMPLOYEES 


Please note that Bob Palmer has cancelled Canobie Lake ... notices will be on 
VTX from him later today.

During these difficult times, I think we can all understand the rationale
behind this decision.

Terri

    

<posted with permission/other forwardings deleted>
    
    From:	KALAH::TAYLOR       20-AUG-1992 16:31:23.75
To:	DONVAN::WRIGHT
CC:	
Subj:	for IM

From:	WECARE::WECARE::GRAVELLE "Lee - Personnel Manager - 381-0607  20-Aug-1992 1531" 20-AUG-1992 15:35:08.99
To:	@COTTER,@GEOGRAPHY,@PSA
CC:	LEE
Subj:	CANOBIE LAKE OUTING CANCELLED


FYI only -
           
We've just received word that as of 4:00 p.m. yesterday, Bob Palmer
has cancelled the Canobie Lake outing for DEC employee's this year.

My understanding is that there will be a message from Palmer in VTX
on Friday, 8/21 announcing the decision - Terrie McInnis, EAC focal point 
for the ZKO Site Cluster, will also receive an E-Mail copy for distribution 
throughout the site.

    What comes to my mind about the cancellation is that this was the one
    "reward" where one didn't have to have an excellent sales record to
    enjoy!!!
    
    There goes my Circle of Excellence!
    
    -sandy
    

    turkeys, too??
    
    I agree with incentive lost.  Sales wouldn't be able to sell if it
    wasn't for the rest of us putting it all together and making it all
    work.
    
    My budget is tight and my kids really look forward to that and No, DEC
    doesn't owe my kids anything.
    
    I'm hoping it's some TFSOer's idea of a joke to spread that around.
    Then again, if not- we'll survive.  Hell, just cancel the food and keep
    the rides!
    
    Reg.

         My kids will also be very disappointed. Heck I'd have been willing
    to pay say $5.00-$10.00 a head at the gate for the privlege of a
    company day..
    
            Bob

    AS of about one minute ago, there was nothing on LIVEWIRE or
    the VTX about cancellation of Canobi Lake Park this year. I
    remember a conversation on this about a year ago, however,
    which amounts to Digital pays for this event well in advance,
    and contracts with Canobi Lake Park for all of those weekends
    after Labor Day when the Park Officially closes. My understanding
    is that in the past it's been booked for 'years' in advance.
    This was done, to avoid NOT being able to get the dates because
    other firms etc. would be looking at taking them. Now, this doesn't
    mean that it hasn't been, or won't be cancelled. What it does mean
    is that like WANG's Hawaii vacation for Top Achievers, going on 
    even as we speak today (and WANG just filed Chap. 11) it may be
    something that is so far in the works that cancelling would be 
    a moot point financially. 
    
       In these times it would make sense to cut costs on just about
    everything, including such things as the outing. Frankly, year
    after year everyone is advised to get only tickets for themselves
    and their family, which is why we always see parents with 18 kids
    etc. arriving at the Park. Last year, I recall a large van pulling
    up beside us at the park, with two adults and about 8 kids involved,
    some of whom asked their Aunt what time they had to meet back! So,
    it's expensive, and abused, and I think we all know of folks who
    do that sort of thing. I'd much prefer to see folks keep their
    jobs versus riding the rollercoaster one last time on Digital,
    or getting their Turkey for that matter. However, I'm not sure
    cutting those out would make any difference in the long run.
    
    Just a couple pennies worth
    
       J
    

    To quote a person who's name escapes me at the moment, but it was a 
politician if I recall....

    "A few million here, a few million there, and pretty soon your talking 
real money!"

    The speaker was refering to spending it rather than saving it, but the 
idea is the same.....

    		Vic

       The late Everett Dirckson said that.
                               Denny

    And Senator Dirkson referred to "a billion here and a billion there..."
    				       ^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^
    
    But it still seems very suitable to our company's situation.
    
    K.

    RE:Last 2...

    Thanks for the corrections.....millions, billions, hey it does add up 
to real money!  8^)

    	Vic

    Oh no.... does this mean what I think it does???
    
    
    Canobie Lake has been TSFO'ed????

    
    RE: a few back - said it's worth $5 or $10 bucks to have an outing
    
    	If you like the idea of a group outing with your kids, why don't
    you do it anyway?  Would you only go if DEC fed you?  Or only if they
    bought you a ticket?  Do you receive ANY other benefits?  Like getting
    together with your group?  Like seeing each other's kids/spouses that
    are just pictures on desks?  Etc.
    
    	DEC is not our Mother!  If you want to go, just do it anyway!  It's
    unlikely that Canobie could rebook anyway.  BTW, aren't these Company
    days after their regular closing?  You better call.
    
    JN, Seattle (formerly Marlboro)
     

[headers removed]
-----------------Forwarded item dated 21-AUG-1992 14:20:23.47-----------------


Subj:	OUTINGS CANCELLATION ANNOUNCEMENT                                      1

From:	NAME: John Sims                     
	FUNC: Strategic Resources             
	TEL: 223-7243                         <SIMS.JOHN AT A1 at CORA @ CORE>
To:	See Below
CC:	See Below


      **********************************************************

              THIS MEMO IS FROM THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE

      **********************************************************



We are reviewing our business plans and objectives as part of our work 
to return Digital to profitable growth.  One of our major goals in 
these reviews is a significant reduction of our discretionary expenses.

Those reviews continue, however, we have made a decision to cancel all 
Company paid employee outings worldwide, effective immediately, 
(i.e., employee days at Canobie Lake Park in the U.S. and the employee 
Summer Picnic in Geneva or other similar activity).     

We recognize that these outings have been one of the traditional 
ways the Company has celebrated and shown appreciation for the 
efforts of all employees.  Dedication and hard work are more 
appreciated and more necessary than ever.  The challenge is to 
find alternative ways to show appreciation that are tied to 
the success of our Company.  We are committed to meeting that 
challenge.

Over the next several months, we will identify and communicate 
other expense reduction decisions in all aspects of our business.  
Your support and participation in helping us to identify and 
implement expense control opportunities is critical to Digital's 
long term viability, particularly in the area of activities that 
do not directly enhance our efforts to improve the way we conduct 
our business.   

Please disseminate this memo throughout your organizations.

Thank you for your support and commitment.



------------ End forwarded message

Worldwide News                      LIVE WIRE

                      Employee outings cancelled worldwide

  Digital's Executive Committee has issued a memo regarding the cancellation 
  of employee outings worldwide in light of current business conditions.  
  Following is the text of the memo.

              -------------------------------------------------

  We are reviewing our business plans and objectives as part of our work to 
  return Digital to profitable growth.  One of our major goals in these 
  reviews is a significant reduction of our discretionary expenses.

  Those reviews continue, however we have made a decision to cancel all 
  company paid employee outings worldwide, effective immediately (i.e., 
  employee days at Canobie Lake Park in the U.S. and the employee Summer 
  Picnic in Geneva or other similar activity).     

  We recognize that these outings have been one of the traditional ways the 
  company has celebrated and shown appreciation for the efforts of all 
  employees.  Dedication and hard work are more appreciated and more necessary
  than ever.  The challenge is to find alternative ways to show appreciation 
  that are tied to the success of our company.  We are committed to meeting 
  that challenge.

  Over the next several months, we will identify and communicate other expense
  reduction decisions in all aspects of our business.  Your support and 
  participation in helping us to identify and implement expense control 
  opportunities is critical to Digital's long term viability, particularly in 
  the area of activities that do not directly enhance our efforts to improve 
  the way we conduct our business.   

  Please disseminate this memo throughout your organizations.

  Thank you for your support and commitment.

    With this  coming  rather  late,  I wonder how this will affect Canobie
    Lake, can't imaging  that  they have had a record year with the weather
    that New England has had this  summer  (rain  and  below normal temps).
    I'm sure they must of been looking  forward  to  the annual income they
    recieved from DEC to operate.
    
    Claude
    
    PS Does this mean that those sites served  by  Tobins  will  be  having
    Hamburger/Hot Dogs etc. specials in the coming months?  ;^)

	I've gone maybe half of the years I've worked at Digital, and frankly,
	I'm not upset at this cancellation, especially if it helps us 
	to be more competitive. What does anger me a little though, is the
	apparent inconsistency in the decision to cancel the events a scant
	few weeks before they were to be held, and the statement quoted below,
	which we was given about this time last year:

	from 1612.19:

>           {EXTRACTED FROM VTX DELTA, 24-JUL-1991}
>
>
>Employee Appreciation Events
>
>	.
>	.
>	.
>We have again examined our position on special appreciation events like
>Canobie Lake and the distribution of Turkeys.  These events take a considerable
>time to prepare and decisions must be made well in advance of any such event.
>	.
>	.
>	.

	It would appear that these decisions don't need to be made
	well in advance of the events after all. Were we lied to before,
	were the DELTA people misinformed, or did the lead time change? 
	Or am I missing something?

					Tom_K

	I suspect that these decisions do need to be made well in advance 
	of the events to be done right. In other words to get out with no
	cost. However, if you are willing to pay something for nothing more
	then not paying as much you can make it later. I suspect that this 
	year someone without an emotional stake in the event happening decided
	that we should take the penalty of losing what ever money we had to
	put down up front rather than spend a lot more on actually holding the
	event.

			Alfred

    Does anybody remember 1982?  We were celebrating the 25th anniversary
    of the Company with a special Canobie Lake outing, cakes in the shape
    of the Mill clocktower, etc.  Only trouble was that business was bad
    right then and the mood wasn't for celebrating.  They didn't cancel
    that year, but lots of people groused that it was an unnecessary
    expense.
    
    I think they did the right thing.  Maybe business will get better in
    time to save the turkeys.  (not from the turkey's viewpoint)

    Surely (by the wording) they mean only outings which do not reflect 
    "appreciation that [is] tied to the success of our company."
    
    I would think that COE (Excellence), DEC100, etc. will go on as
    planned, as would any other "contribution recognition" related event.
    
    ???

	This still rubs me the wrong way. Nickel and dime stuff like this
    does little to affect the bottom line of the company. However, it
    *does* demotivate people. We're being asked to work harder with fewer
    people to turn the company around. Meanwhile, we're going to cancel any
    small pats on the back...but trust us, we're going to figure out a way
    to reward people down the road. Yeah...right...
        If it had been me, what I would have done was send out a memo that
    stated that because of the tough times, they had to take a hard look at
    such things as Canobie Lake...and strongly considered cancelling them.
    HOWEVER, as a thank-you to the remaining employees and to help foster
    the team spirit and show appreciation for the hard work, they decided to
    go ahead with the outings as planned.
	Suddenly, we'd all be saying to ourselves, wow! What a nice thing for
    them to do...forgetting that it was the same ol' Canobie Lake outing nobody
    is really thrilled about. I guess if we're really so hard-up for money that
    even this presents a problem, it might be turkey hotdogs this year afterall
    instead of turkeys (when a friend of mine who left DEC and went to Sun was
    recently bragging to me on the phone about his $5k Christmas bonus last
    year, I said, "Hey, but you didn't get a turkey."

    Anything that gets people out of the door....Right?

>	when a friend of mine who left DEC and went to Sun was
>	recently bragging to me on the phone about his $5k Christmas bonus last
>	year, I said, "Hey, but you didn't get a turkey."

	Er, how much profit did SUN make last year?

	Rewards based on contributions to the company's success do seem
	the way to go, Rather than a annual company event that really 
	has no relation to effort. For example, award or incentive programs
	for sales, and "release events" to reward engineering groups upon
	completion of projects. That leaves out some groups that don't
	have event based milestones, but I am sure that folks who work
	in those types of groups would have no trouble with determining
	and suggesting equivalent displays of appreciation.

					Tom_K

    Perhaps the suggestion for those interested in going - organize; isn't
    a bad idea.  I guess the folks in the field must have known for some
    time there wasn't going to be a company "sponsored" picnic this year,
    so our Employee Activities Committee made special arrangements with
    a popular water park (or was it Six Flags) for special discounted
    rates for DEC employees.  So, those families who enjoy these types
    of outings and getting togethers with fellow employees were at least
    able to get together.  Sure, they had to pay some money; but the price
    for the ticket negotiated by the EAC was *considerably* less than any
    individual family would have to pay if they just decided to go on
    their own.
    
    BTW, Canobie Lake wasn't the only place where some employees took
    advantage of the free outing and brought folks who were not members
    of their immediate families (or in some case, not related at all).
    I'm single and haven't attended one of these functions in years; the
    last year DEC sponsored an event the caterers ran out of food because
    some people brought more guests than they should have.  If any fellow
    employee had asked me for my tickets so they could bring extra guests
    I would have given them up, but no one asked.  Apparently the site
    of the function was told to anticipate XXX people; so the early
    arrivers gobbled up the food and some DEC employees who arrived late
    found the cupboard bare and wound up purchasing all their food.  <---
    considering some of the old notes and comments on Tobins, at least
    field people got to eat a little better :-)  But there were a few
    instances where Mom and Pop hadn't anticipated having to feed their
    kids (none of these parks are cheap on food prices) so the day wound
    up quickly.......the kids rode the rides, but then had to go home to
    eat :-(
    
    

.66>    I agree with incentive lost.  Sales wouldn't be able to sell if it
.66>    wasn't for the rest of us putting it all together and making it all
.66>    work.

Have you ever been involved with The Customer or participated in a sale???
Have you ever tried to get answers out of a group external to yours or 
"seamlessly" integrated our products?

I'm usually a voyeur of this conference, but, as my blood was getting ready 
to boil out of my veins, from reading some of the ideas for "fixing" DEC's
current situation as well as the insular thinking that seems to predominate
within Engineering, I felt compelled...

First of all, I've been with Digital for over 11 years now, almost 9 years of 
which were spent in a Manufacturing Process Engineering group in Acton and 
Tewksbury, Massachusetts, involved with most of the new products coming
out of what used to be known as Mid-Range Systems, so I'm not a neophyte when 
it comes to the internal workings of Digital.  I decided I wanted to see how 
the other side of the business (read: the Field) operated, and I made the move 
to a Sales Office in Research Triangle Park (North Carolina) as a Sales Support 
person, supporting ULTRIX systems, and manufacturing companies, (CAD/CAM/CAE,
FDC, MRPII, etc.), amongst varied accounts in the Carolinas Account Group.  
The move was due, in part, to seeing the handwriting on the wall a few years 
back, in terms of the longevity of a career in Manufacturing ("rightsizing" 
was just beginning), and the other was to broaden my outlook on how our 
products are used by "real" people.

To say the least, I've had some interesting experiences - some good, some bad -
but I'm glad I did it.  The Sales folks have earned my respect, especially
in trying to sell products that our customers don't want or need, but that our 
own engineers think are the greatest thing since sliced bread!  Trust me, it
doesn't all work together as advertised, and trying to get someone in Eng'g.
Mfg. or even Mktg. to take accountability is like pulling teeth!  My 
experiences in the Field, to date,  has lent credence to my belief that the 
GMA really *is* Ivory Tower - it's a tough market out there (I'm starting to 
sound a little like Rodney Dangerfield).  And, yes, I used to think the same 
thing - "These guys have expense accounts, cars, car phones, etc. - what a 
cushy life!"  But, then, I also used to think that those in ZKO who were lucky
enough to have a *real* cafeteria and a Wellness Centre had it better off than
me.  Guess it'll always be the Have vs. the Have-nots...

I'm donning my flame-retardant coveralls now...  I'm going back in to my
trench...

>	Rewards based on contributions to the company's success do seem
>	the way to go, Rather than a annual company event that really 
>	has no relation to effort. 

I don't agree.  There are events that are designed to reward a subset of
your employees for their efforts (or, better, for their "results").
Other events are for human camaraderie. Canobie Lake was the latter.

What really bothers me is that I would have shelled out 5 or 10 bucks (maybe
even $15) each for tickets to go to a Company Day at Canobie Lake Park, but
going by myself (even with my family) is not the same.  The real pleasure
for me was bumping into old friends, some of whom I only see from
year-to-year at the Park.  Who cares what their last Performance Rating
was - it was a day to mingle, eat, and watch the kids have fun.  And I
DID like the food!

I wish that they had done something other than outright cancellation.  They
could have, for example, given each employee one "free" ticket, with, say,
a 10 dollar charge for each additional one.  Heck, even when my child
goes on a school trip, they often ask for a "donation" to pay for museum
admission. This would have solved the eight-nieces-and-nephews-in-a-van
problem, too.

Gee, we might even have been able to MAKE money on the event!  And had fun
at the same time.

When the Company Picnic gets cancelled, ya gotta worry bigtime.

-steve-

    Re - .82

	I agree.

	To decide not to hold this event so close to when it would normally
    be held is strictly a "knee-jerk" reaction without any thought to the
    source of the stimulus causing the knee to jerk!

	This company outing is/was a family day - a reward, of sorts, for doing
    my best for the company (hey, it's the only 'reward' the company gave me
    this year).  My family has gone to, and looked forward to, this outing for
    each of the 11+ years I've worked for the company.  It was a 'nice' touch
    - something done by the company for which it should be proud.  It was a
    symbol that the company "cared" about the person it asked to work for them.
    It made it easier to feel part of the comapny, the family - rather then
    a me/them atmosphere.


	But a "nickle and dime" mentality seems to have taken over, very much
    "penny wise and pound foolish."  What the hey, many in this company seem to 
    be operating this way lately ... (oops, it slipped).

	Cynicism aside, cancel the next one .. an announcement which said:
	
	   "We regret to inform you that this will be probably the last
	   family outing at (where ever) sponsored by Digital.  Blah,
	   blah, etc., etc.  We hope to resume similar functions in the
	   future when we get things are turned around (or words to that
	   effect.)"

     would be much easier to accept and deal with.  We know, in advance, what
     is coming and what is not.

     In a way it almost seems that DEC (the parent) has just decided to 'punish'
     the employee (the child) for something (profitablity) the "parent" is most
     responsible for (i.e, product planning, overseeing development costs and
     schedules, marketing, etc.)

     It is ironic, however, that this decision has no effect on my family this
     year.  If all goes according to current plans, I'll be TSFO'd by then 
     (gee there's that profitability thing again!).

.84>	Rewards based on contributions to the company's success do seem
.84>	the way to go, Rather than a annual company event that really 
.84>	has no relation to effort.

I'm afraid I don't agree, either.  Canobie was intended to say "thank you
for being an employee, we're glad you're here".  It was important that it
NOT be related to "contributions to the company's success".

In fact, the latter kind of thinking is fraught with a major difficulty:
how "contributions to the company's success" shall be measured, and by whom.
Some areas aren't very glamorous (say, PDP-11 engineering, Tom?), but
keeping old customers happy might be an important contribution...

Or what about someone who gives a genuine 200% effort, but who happens to
be in a project which COSTS the company a major bundle because of poor
planning?

Sorry.  We don't fix the current problems by some new scheme for rewards
and disincentives at the workerbee level.  The problem isn't at the
workerbee level.  (Says Bill, who readily admits to not being even the
brightest or most productive workerbee he knows.)  What we have to hear
if ANYONE is going to believe in better times coming is not Canobie
cancellations, or even continuing layoffs, but a strategy.  Bob Palmer's
first major statement of direction for us should have been a major
opportunity;  it'll be a shame if he's squandered that on a cheap-looking
short-range tactic.

As far as Canobie itself goes, I don't go myself.  Perhaps Canobie WAS
a benefit whose expense should properly be saved in these times.  (I
probably feel that way.)  Even then, Digital could have handled it without
looking so uncaring.  They could have paid NOTHING, but merely encouraged
Canobie management to offer a "Digital Day", with whatever discounts
they could swallow.  Then families could still be together, for a price,
Digital could have woven a nice message around cost-savings-but-still-
caring, and Canobie would have had SOME Digital business.

       I've never gone to Canobie Lake, and it's not likely that I ever
       would go.
       
       But I'm sorry that it has been dropped because the people hurt by
       this are the everyday Joes and Janes who work for the company and
       their kids whose tales of having fun and going on rides and eating
       too much amusement-park food were day-after topics in every
       office.  The people hurt by this are, for the most part, the least
       powerful and the least politically influential in the company. 
       And that's too bad.
       
       Within the next few week (before September 10th, I have heard),
       the company has to decide whether or not to continue its
       sponsorship of the Seniors pro golf tournament in 1993. Now,
       unlike Canobie Lake, I have taken adavntage of the free employee
       tickets in the past couple of years.  I don't know how much the
       tournament costs the company;  I do know that the tournament is an
       opportunity for some of the company's biggest wigs to schmooze
       with the pro golfers, particularly during the pro-am tournament.
       
       Will the Digital Seniors Classic and its perks be continued in
       1993?
       
       --Mr Topaz
       
       --Mr Topaz

    I, like many, am disappointed by the loss of this event.  My family
    avidly looked forward to and thoroughly enjoyed the day at Canobie Lake.
    
    I also believe it was the right decision.  Proceeding with this event, 
    would be akin to "Nero fiddling while Rome burned".
    
    The text of the Sims memo is not clear if this decision is for FY93
    or permanently.  A permanent cancellation would be a mistake, I think,
    indicative of a structural change to our system of values.  One noter
    indicated Palmer would be issuing something on this cancellation.  If
    he does, I hope he is more definitive on the scope of the cancellation.
    
    There were a couple of references to "nickel and dime mentality" in
    this latest series of replies.  When the cost of Canobie is compared
    to our restructuring loses or even our recent operating loses, Canobie
    is indeed dwarfed, as are most of our costs when considered on an
    individual basis.  However, if we limit ourselves to the MEGA-costsaving
    opportunities, we will miss a mountain of small and medium opportunities 
    which collectively add up to big bucks.
    
    Given the season, likening the struggle we find ourselves in to a
    baseball game;  the champion is not the team with the most home runs,
    but the team which consistently hits the singles and doubles.  I think
    we just hit a double.  It's up to the next batter to bring us home.
    

    I fail to see the difference between cancelling Canobie and cancelling
    (or more accurately, NOT cancelling) COE.  COE is for far fewer people,
    but I'm sure at much greater overall expense to the company.  I've
    always viewed Canobie at a big "thank you" to my wife & son for the
    disrupted evenings/weekends to accomplish Digital business, the
    "leaving at noon Sunday for a Monday morning meeting", etc.
    
    This is indeed a big incentive-burner.  I'm sure I (and many others)
    helped to get many COE winners to their big uncancelled expensive
    hoopla, yet this cancellation in effect negates those contributions, as
    if those COE winners would have won anyway without our help, which I
    don't believe is true at all.
    
    I really don't mind putting in an occasional weekend, giving up some
    evenings to pursue Digital business, because it's the right thing to
    do, especially in these economic times.  But the Canobie cancellation
    takes away the "corporate thanks" to both me & my family for the team
    efforts expended on closing business.  And even at a normal 40
    hours/week (don't remember the last week I worked that few hours), most
    large projects are a team effort, from the strict 40-hrs/week person to
    the 80+ hrs/week workaholic.
    
    Maybe the turkeys will be bigger this year to compensate.  (Caught
    right next to the flying pigs farm...)
    
    Jon

    Here's a point I'm surprised I haven't seen raised yet in this
    topic:  Wang has been taking a bit of public-opinion heat for
    having a bunch of its sales types living it up in Hawaii at the
    same time that they filed Chapter 11.  None of the logical
    explanations ("It was already paid for"  "It's a regular part of
    the total compensation package"  "It's a reward for a job well
    done") washed in the court of public opinion.  Right or wrong,
    the average folks' opinion of this was that it was a pretty
    crass thing to do.
    
    This might have been why Palmer made the decision he did, when he
    did.  The memo came out the day after the Wang story broke, and
    I'm sure the desire to avoid adverse publicity was a large part of
    the decision...
    
    --jim
    

RE: .93

>    Here's a point I'm surprised I haven't seen raised yet in this
>    topic:  Wang has been taking a bit of public-opinion heat for
>    having a bunch of its sales types living it up in Hawaii at the
>    same time that they filed Chapter 11.  None of the logical
>    explanations ("It was already paid for"  "It's a regular part of
>    the total compensation package"  "It's a reward for a job well
>    done") washed in the court of public opinion.  Right or wrong,
>    the average folks' opinion of this was that it was a pretty
>    crass thing to do.
    
I think exactly the opposite.  If there are sales folks at Wang who are
making their budgets and exceeding expectations then Wang should be
sending them to Hawaii.  It would be the final nail in Wang's coffin if
they start shafting those people are are delivering the goods.

    What about those of us in the field who *don't* get Canobie Lake and
    *don't* get a turkey ?
    
    I've been with DEC 5 years, have never gotten a turkey, and have never
    had the opportunity to go to Canobie Lake.  I'm curious as to how DEC
    justifies the apparent expense for Canobie Lake for the "few" people in
    the Northeast...
    
    Let's tighten our belts during the rough times and be thankful we have
    jobs...  Maybe they'll send those of us in the Southern Area to Six
    Flags/Disney World next year as "our" Canobie Lake...)
    
    Todd

    I just got the ticket distribution form to fill out to pick up the
    tickets for the outing; our is (oooops was) scheduled for Sunday
    9/20.  Guess I'll just hold it as another DEC collector's item from
    these times.
    
    Mark
    
    

    RE: .90
    
    I agree Mr_Topaz.
    
    I have gone to Canobie Park about 10 times with my family. All of us
    look forward to the event, and frankly, with the number of children I
    have and the fact that I'm an engineer, I can't really afford to
    go otherwise.
    
    I will be watching to see if the other events ,like the Digital Golf
    Series is cancelled too....
    
    Only with Olsen retiring would this event have been cancelled.
    
    Marc H.

    re .82---a tbought that crossed my mind!  With all the layoffs, there
    would be less people to enjoy Canobie anyway - couldn't thay have just
    cancelled a few of the dates, not the whole pie????

	Don, I take your point, but it isn't totally an apples to
	apples comparison. While our big wigs may do some shmoozing
	with the pros, I understand that it is also a major opportunity 
	for our customers to shmooze as well.

	Don't know how many customers attend Canobie Lake.

	Of course, I'd rather that our customers bought Digital because
	our products were good, than because we gave them an opportunity
	to shmooze.

					Tom_K

    I do not think anybody has mentioned the kids.  Some children have been
    told already that they were going to Canobie Lake Park, and some of
    these kids are too young to understand why mommy or daddy is breaking
    her or his promise.
    
    I'm sure those parents will be rushing to get to Canobie on their own
    before the park closes for the season, but many of them won't make it.
    Digital invited those children, and employees.  I have a written
    invitation.  Digital is breaking its promise.
    
    It's not the first time.
    
    
    				-- edp

    .86> The Sales folks have earned my respect...
    .86> And, yes, I used to think the same thing...what a cushy life
    .86> Have you ever been involved with The Customer....???
    
    .66> Sales wouldn't be able to sell if it wasn't for the rest of us...
    
    I have been strictly read in this conference...but I have to say I am
    with .66 here  I do work directly with the customer all the time in the 
    repair center.  We have customers getting mad at us as a result of not
    understanding what they have been sold.  It seems to me and others i 
    work with that Sales does anything to get the sale...the rest of us
    have to put up with the customer sat issues when they tell us "well, 
    sales told me, promised me, assured me, etc..."  We have dealt with 
    Sales people who want us to give away the store rather than lose a 
    good customer who they have led to believe would be pampered with or 
    without buying the correct service from us.
    
    I do not believe that Sales alone makes us work, I wish alot of them 
    didn't...we'd all probably pull together more if that were the case.
    It saddens me that this one reward we get is taken away when so much 
    else is done for salespeople, among others.
    

>>>    I do not think anybody has mentioned the kids.  Some children have been
>>>    told already that they were going to Canobie Lake Park, and some of
>>>    these kids are too young to understand why mommy or daddy is breaking
>>>    her or his promise.

They're also too young to understand what it means when mommy or daddy gets
laid off.

Canobie Lake is a trivial thing, compared to the long-term survival of the
company. I assume (I hope) that Palmer is trying to get everyone's attention
that this is a new company. We may be seeing a few more of these moves, some of
which we'll like and some of which we won't.

I'd rather the company continue as a long-time player than maintain its folksy
traditions.

Vicki Meagher

Re: .101

I would suggest that you gain the proper qualifications, and take a job in Sales.

Bob

    Question...

    What is the dollar value per employee of the annual Canobie Lake 
    outing and the Thanksgiving Turkey?

    
    Opinion...

    Either EVERYONE should get these benefits or NO ONE should. 

    ONE COMPANY! New England AND the field. 

    Equity should not be based on your zip code.

    
    --- Paul

    RE: .103 
    
    It seems to me either Sales doesn't bother to learn the programs it is
    selling OR doesn't care how it gets the sales that bring in their
    rewards.
    		Either way...I don't want those "proper qualifications"
	
    *** of course we don't hear from the satisfied customers...I will grant
    	you that...so change the above to some of Sales
    					  ====
    
                                              

    To me, I would much rather be in the position of working and being able
    to spend my money and bring my family to Canobie rather than be given a
    package and having to do the same. 
    
    I remember reading many notes after last years Canobie weekends where 
    people did nothing but complain about the food.  Don't depend on a
    company for these types of benefits in these economic times. 
    
    Be greatful that you have a job!

    I have a good friend who has worked at Sanders for more than 25 years. 
    They have their outings at Whalom Park.  However, according to my
    friend, there have been many years when Sanders did not have an outing. 
    Apparently, the outing was based on whether or not the company was
    earning money that year.  Makes sense to me.
    
    Hey, these are tough times.  Canobie Lake, IMHO, is one of those things
    which should be discretionary based on our ability to fund the
    "reward."  This does not seem to be one of those years.
    
    Did Sims' memo say this was a permanent cancellation?  Nope.  It was
    carefully worded to avoid either making it permanent or implying that
    the event would be held in future years.  Digi-speak perhaps.  But
    let's get real.  People are losing their jobs even as we speak.  Should
    those of us fortunate enough to remain be "partying" at Canobie Lake. 
    Not in my opinion.
    
    Chet

re: .86

>  The Sales folks have earned my respect, especially
>in trying to sell products that our customers don't want or need,


	No wonder we're in so much trouble.


	Heather

    
    
    Does this single a change in the DEC philosophy regarding family?
    
    Understanding the necessity for such moves notwithstanding, how 
    will the powers at be explain such occurances as the infamous $1000.
    bar bill that was included in a DEC employee's expense voucher?  
    (This incident was included in (I believe) in Wall Street Journal or
    New York Times last winter as part of article on $13 millon dollars
    in questionable expenses that DEC was attempted to track down.)
    
    If the glory of days gone was shared, then the pain of now must also
    be shared.  
    
    Ahem!
    

The first problem is that Digital is losing money, hand over fist.

The bigger problem is that Digital doesn't know how to STOP losing money.

They do, however, know how to nickel and dime.

When you're overwhelmed, you do what you know how to do, even when you know
it doesn't make much of a difference.

re .100:

>    I do not think anybody has mentioned the kids.  Some children have been
>    told already that they were going to Canobie Lake Park, and some of
>    these kids are too young to understand why mommy or daddy is breaking
>    her or his promise.

There's nary a peep about the cancellation in PARENTING.

    Re: .111
    Parenting is not the correct place.
    
    Marc H.

    RE: Canobie Lake
    
    IMO - a correct decision, given the current economic situation in the
    company.
    
    RE: get a job in Sales
    
    Yeah, remind me to tell you about an engineer friend of mine in another
    company who tried REAL hard to get a DEC sales person to sell him
    equipment for a project he was designing.  Only after the project was
    in jeopardy of slipping his schedule did he finally contact H-P, who
    were only too happy to send a salesman out to see what he needed.  That
    was 12 years ago, and to this day that engineer will not consider
    buying anything from DEC.
    
    IMO - many DEC sales people have a LOT to learn about selling.
    
    ... Bob
    

The following is from VTX DELTA, dated 24-Jul:


 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+TM                                     DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY
 |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|           YOU MAKE A DIFFERENCE!      
 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Employee Appreciation Events 

During economic times like the one we are currently in, Digital continues to 
examine many avenues in our effort to be more profitable.  Many of you have 
written to Delta over time to express concern for expenditures in the Employee
Appreciation area.  Some think we need to do more and some think we need to do
less!  We have again examined our position on special appreciation events like
Canobie Lake and the distribution of Turkeys.  These events take a considerable
time to prepare and decisions must be made well in advance of any such event.

Our Executive Committee strongly supports our continued efforts to recognize 
and appreciate our employees efforts during these stressful times.  They 
continue to support these two events taking place.  Our need to say thank you 
to each employee is even more evident today, than it has ever been in our past.
Appreciation events such as these allow us to take a moment and reflect on 
each persons contributions to Digital.  Therefore, we will hold our Canobie 
Lake Park event and we will distribute turkeys.

    For those who decide to take their kids to Canobie on their own, I
    noticed last night that Purity Supreme has coupons good for $4 off the
    admission price, good until 4 September.  At least I think it was 4
    September.
    

    	My main objection to this cancellation is that this was the only
    "family"-oriented event the company offered. For a company that talks a
    lot about being family-oriented and speaks highly of family values, it
    really does little to back it up.
    	My kids are very disappointed, but I don't disagree with the
    numerous comments about equity for all employees, etc., and I
    understand *why* it was done...although I bet they didn't save a heck
    of a lot of money by cancelling it at this late date.

    
    I'll vote 1992 as "Family Value" year, just like all the Republican
    and Democrate campaign we seen so far.
    
    So why DEC need to be different from two party's agenda ?
    
    Michael..  

    re .114
    
    We in the DELTA program apologize for any confusion.  The statement
    that we have on Canobie Lake and Turkeys is in fact a year old and has
    not been updated.  We assumed, along with everyone else that when the
    announcements started being made that it was "business" as usual.
    
    We are removing the statement today and will replace it with the
    Executive Committee posting.
    
    We are trying to find out about turkeys and will post what we find out.
    
    Sorry for the inconsistency.

    
    
    Dear Mr. Olsen,
    
    	Won't they even wait until your corporate corpse is cold in your 
    desk chair before they dismember your company?
    
    	Thank you for my outings at Canobie Lake; I have no children but 
    for one afternoon I could feel like one in the wonderful company of my
    peers and their childern.  
    
    	I also want to thank you for the turkeys over the years; besides 
    providing a wealth of material for jokes (!) my family has greatly 
    appreciated the fine dinner they have made.
    
	Good bye Mr. Olsen, this company will be the poorer for your
    passing.
    
    

    Re .106:
    
    > Be greatful that you have a job!
    
    Why?  Digital employs me because it makes a profit from me, not because
    it is doing me a favor.  More and more, Digital tells employees that it
    does not care about us as people.  This is just a business arrangement
    to Digital; there's nothing for me to be grateful for.  If anything,
    Digital should be grateful to us; it is the profits of OUR labor that
    Digital's stockholders are receiving a share of.
    
    > To me, I would much rather be in the position of working and being able
    > to spend my money and bring my family to Canobie rather than be given a
    > package and having to do the same. 

    Would you rather be in the position of working and going to Canobie or
    of being laid off because the decision to cancel Canobie reduced morale
    even further and resulted in more losses and more layoffs?
    
    
    				-- edp

    Re .121
    
>    Why?  Digital employs me because it makes a profit from me, not because
>    it is doing me a favor.  More and more, Digital tells employees that it
>    does not care about us as people.  This is just a business arrangement
>    to Digital; there's nothing for me to be grateful for.  If anything,
>    Digital should be grateful to us; it is the profits of OUR labor that
>    Digital's stockholders are receiving a share of.
    
    Excuse me but...
    
    
     I find your response to be totally offensive. I would love to respond
    to every word of your last response but I don't think the MOD's would
    leave my response here for very long. In fact, I'm wary of the
    longevity of this *very* diluted response.
    
     If I am not mistaken, the point .106 seems to me means "be thankful
    you have a job as opposed to being unemployed". It DOES NOT mean you
    should be kissing somebody's feet.
    
     Think of the hundereds of millions of people who tonight, went to bed 
    hungry, that's assuming they even have a bed. There are millions of 
    people like this in the US who, right this very second are only dreaming
    of finding a job so they can buy food for their kids or make sure they 
    have clothes to keep themselves warm.
    
     If you can not think about those less fortunate and be thankful for
    just one minute then I suggest that you rethink your idea of who
    needs a re-education on caring for people.
    
     DEC is obviously going through a very difficult time right now but
    DEC is not some entity of uncontrolled dark and evil forces. DEC is 
    made of people like you and I and based on your last response I for 
    one am thankful that you are not in control of my fate.
    
    
    Glenn

    Sorry .122
    
    DEC is in the control of Bob Palmer, who is the proxy of the
    shareholders and Wall Street. It is not in 'our' control (assuming you
    aren't one of Bob's minions...
    
    And wake up and smell the coffee - your great efforts or technological
    prowess don't mean diddly squat if your management decide that your 
    existence is not maximising the shareholders profits (often possibly
    erroneously as the pressures of cost cutting have hidden side-effects)
    I suggest you r enquire after the fate of a team I had the pleasure of
    wokring with, and who engineered the first mail filtering product for
    ALL-IN-1, not too mention who designed the first version of ALL-IN-1.
         
    They got it in the neck...
    
     Winton

    Re .122:
    
    > If I am not mistaken, the point .106 seems to me means "be thankful
    > you have a job as opposed to being unemployed".
    
    I understood the point, and I disagree with it.  Who should I be
    thankful to?  Not Digital; Digital is not doing me a favor, and it is
    not because of Digital that I have a job.  I have a job because I am a
    good engineer -- the cause of my employment stems from MY skills, not
    from Digital's generosity.
    
    Digital ought to get it straight who should be thankful here.  I can
    find a new employer more easily than Digital can find a new engineer
    with my skills.  I am doing Digital a favor by working for the company,
    and it ought to demonstrate its gratefulness for that.  A day at
    Canobie is a mere pittance compared to the income we produce for the
    company.
    
    > Think of the hundereds of millions of people who tonight, . . .
    >
    > If you can not think about those less fortunate and be thankful . . .
    
    You are missing my point.  I did not say we should not be "thankful" in
    general, as in thankful to the random chances that produced the skills
    I have.  I am saying we need not be grateful to DIGITAL -- it is not
    because of any generosity by Digital that we are employed.  Digital
    employs us just for business reasons, not because it is doing us a
    favor.  So there's nothing to be grateful for.
    
    
    				-- edp

    We do not need to be grateful to Digital -- but likewise Digital does
    not need to be grateful to us -- Digital *pays* us; gratitude is not
    necessary.  This is strictly an economic deal.
    
>    Digital ought to get it straight who should be thankful here.  I can
>    find a new employer more easily than Digital can find a new engineer
>    with my skills.  I am doing Digital a favor by working for the company,
    
    Then, perhaps you shouldn't continue to do Digital such a favor, if
    that is the way you view it.  Each of us is responsible for our own
    career; there is no big-daddy DEC who is responsible.  Likewise, none
    of us are indispensable to DEC.
    
    Nancy

    Re .122 
    
    Well said!! In my opinion,  the author of .121 will have no trouble 
    getting a job elsewhere.  Great confidence and the world owes that
    person something as well as their kids an outing at Canobie.

    	Well, I think this is the crux of the matter. Digital used to seem
    more like a family than a business. The company treated employees like
    family members. No matter how bad things got, they'd stick by us and
    keep striving to be better. The employees didn't look at Digital as a
    business either.
    	This is what has changed. In attempting to turn the company around,
    it's becoming more and more just a business, focusing on the profit and
    loss statement. No more pats on the back and squeezing every penny out
    of the business and its employees (like benefit cuts, although that's
    not what they're called, but when you take home less money every week,
    you get the idea). This may work, but it is a major cultural change and
    will obviously piss off a lot of people in the process. It's also a
    risky, dangerous game (that Wang played and lost). Alienate and
    demotivate enough employees, and everything grinds to a halt.
    	The people at the top need to understand how it looks from the
    bottom...friends being laid off...perhaps your job is next...Being
    asked to do more, work harder, take home less, rewards disappearing,
    etc. If they really want to turn this company around, they'll need to
    motivate the workforce...somehow...and it doesn't have to be financial
    reward. They can't expect loyalty to do it anymore. That was the old
    Digital "family" and not the new Digital "business." Loyalty won't cut
    it anymore. If they squeeze too hard, everyone will leave.

    One problem is that the Digital "family" has been subject to 
    some serious inbreeding for the last few years.  It's sad when
    all marketing propaganda is taken at face value (VAX 9000, etc.)
    without question, and self-centered attitudes are the norm.
    
    The only solution to correct for these mutated generations is 
    eradication of undesirable elements and infusion of new blood.  
    
    In any way possible.
    

Re: .113

Based on a single experience with Digital Sales, told to you second hand
13 years ago, all Digital Sales people are incompetent?

Sorry... that's a bit of a stretch for me.

Bob

Re: .121:

Right on.

Re: .122, and others,

While I'm sensitive to the points you make, I still cannot avoid the issue
that Digital did not hire me to do me a favor.  I cannot thank someone
unless they do something worthy of thanks.  Digital hired me to achieve
their own ends (that is, out of their own selfish interests), and I
accepted the job to achieve my own ends (that is, out of my own selfish
interests).  No thanks has come from Digital to me, and no thanks is
required of me by Digital.  I give them work, they give me money, and it's
abundantly clear that this is all Digital wants from the relationship.

I will also note that virtually every time I've heard the phrase "You
should be thankful for...", it has been offered as an excuse to someone who
is suffering some significant pain.  That doesn't help the pain.  In fact,
all it does is tell the person "You have no right to hurt".

Ok, so a few of us screwed up here.  I, at one time, harbored this illusion
that Digital really gave a sh*t about me.  I was wrong.  So what?  The
major source of the pain was my own unrealistic expectations, and getting
over those expectations meant the same thing as getting over the pain.

I can thank my lucky stars that I'm employed, or I can thank my school
teachers, or my parents, or myself (for having the skills).  I can thank
the economy (back when I was hired), and thank my bosses for keeping me
when I wasn't producing (of course, the reasons that I wasn't producing
were intimately tied with Digitals apparent indifference).

I cannot find any reason to thank Digital for any of these things. 
Digital's just a player, looking to serve its own ends, just as I am.

    RE: .129
    
    You've got your facts mixed up Bob.  This incident wasn't told to me
    second hand, nor did I ever say or imply that.  I was at the time
    working at the company, on the project I mentioned, working very
    closely with the engineer involved ... that's about as first-hand as
    you can get.
    
    Second, I NEVER said "all Digital Sales people are incompetent" ... YOU
    said that.  I said "IMO - many Digital Sales people have a LOT to learn
    about selling".  Obviously, some Digital Sales people have a LOT to
    learn about interpreting what they read too.
    
    However, consider this ... due to an inept sales experience, this
    company lost out on the sale of perhaps 300-400 PDP-11's over the
    lifetime of the product my friend designed.  We also lost our
    foothold on future generations of the product, which now use Sun
    workstations.  And we've lost the potential to sell our products to
    whatever other company this particular engineer designs process control
    products for.  That adds up to a lot of $$$ over the years.  And the
    same attitude that caused the problem 12 years ago in this particular
    case still exists today.
    
    Do you care about fixing the problem?  Or simply making excuses for how
    far you have to "stretch" in order to admit to yourself that it exists?
    The answer to that question will go a long way to determining whether
    or not this company is going to pull it's own fat out of the fire in
    the coming years.
    
    ... Bob
    

    re: many previous...
    
    "Digital" does not have feelings.
    
    Co-workers do.
    Managers do.
    I imagine the CEO does.
    
    Many co-workers have often appreciated something I did professionally,
    or something I developed, or time spent helping them learn something.
    They let me know that!
    
    Some managers have appreciated me, verbally, or through a raise.
    
    I'm too far removed from Ken or Bob for their appreciation or lack of
    appreciation to be evident.
    
    If some co-workers and some managers appreciate me, I feel
    appreciated by "Digital".  How else could I feel appreciated by
    "Digital" in a company of >100,000 people?

    again, IMO Cancellation of the Outing is the 'right' thing to do
    given the state of the company and what it is trying to grapple with.
    
    In following this note, I see Sales saying they aren't rewarded while
    Manufacturing is, Manufacturing says they aren't while Engineering is,
    Engineering says Sales is and they aren't. That smacks of a rathole
    that is endless. Without Engineering we develop no products to 
    manufacture. Without Manufacturing we develop no products to sell.
    With no Manufacturing our Sales force has to learn how to move 
    stoves, refridgerators and autos. We all need each other in order to
    keep the Corporation going and afloat.  
    
    It also shows the "Turf" issues which Bob Palmer spoke of in his 
    recent DVN. We, (READ ALL OF DIGITAL) own turning the company around.
    Cancelling the outing hurts to be sure. Many people looked forward
    to it. Downsizing hurts as well. There are ample notes in this
    conference which covers that though. However, when we speak of 
    Stockholders and accountability to them, I get the feeling that
    people view the Stockholders as the great "They" and "Them". Alot
    of Stockholders are "US" meaning Digital Employees who buy and own
    stock in the company. 
    
    My personal philosophy/belief systems around what do I owe Digital 
    and what does Digital owe me boils out to a series of expectations.
    Digital EXPECTS my best efforts in trying to make the company
    succeed. I EXPECT Digital's best efforts in the same vein. If I am
    expected to do my best by the Corporation, then the expectation in
    reverse is that the Corporation will do its best by me. 
    
    What I DO NOT expect Digital to do, is concern itself with what I do
    on my own time, so long as I do not bring discredit to the corporation
    in so doing. Last friday evening, for example, I took my 13 year old
    to Fenway Park to a Sox game. Now I walked up to the ticket window
    and purchased the Grandstand seats for 10.00. The same price I'd
    pay if I bought them through Employee activities. No one at the window
    asked to see my badge. So, I do not need Digital to go to Fenway
    Park, what a revelation! Why, I bet I can go to Canobie Lake Park
    and get in, without showing my badge! Heck I'm willing to wager I
    can pick up a Holiday Turkey at any supermarket without having a
    coupon OR my badge. Digital doesn't owe me those things, nor do I
    expect them to.
    
    Grateful for a job? I have absolutely no reservations about saying
    you bet your life I am. Do I feel Digital is perfection personified?
    Absolutely not, nor will it ever be, but I feel better about working
    for Digital right now then I would if I were sitting in the Lowell
    Wang building.  
    
    Lastly, I do realize how much everyone looked forward to the outing
    for whatever personal reasons they may've had. It is unfortunate that
    it was cancelled, however, it was. The largest complaint people have
    had in the past is a lack of communications, and let's give a nickles
    worth of credit to Management team up above. They cancelled it, they
    gave the reasons why, expressed regrets and have committed to finding
    other, perhaps even more suitable or appropriate means of showing 
    gratitude and rewards.
    
    Please read all of the above as simply my own personal opinions.
    
    -J-
    

RE: .130

I agree with Dave.

Digital owes me only one thing in return for the work I produce.
My check. Anything beyond this, I thank Digital for and is a benny.

John I.

	Digital owes me a number of things in return 
	for the work I do: Salary, pension, health insurance, vacation, etc.

	They owe me these things because that is what we have agreed to.

	If Digital wants to change what they offer me in return for my
	work, they do so because it is in Digital's best interest to do so,
	and often, because it is in our mutual interest.

	And if I don't like what they are offering, I am free to seek
	my best price elsewhere. 

	But Digital does owe me what they've promised me, nothing more,
	nothing less.

					Tom_K

    
    
    I thought of the outting more for my wife and children than for me.
    One way to repay the kids for the times I've worked late and couldn't
    be with them.  Or for the business trip when I've missed a school
    function.
    So I'll take some of that cold green stuff I earn each week and buy
    them tickets to canobie this year since *I* already promised that we'd
    be going [silly fool].  Of course there won't be any Digital banners,
    but I can remind them on each ride that they can be thankful that Daddy
    has a job so he could buy the tickets. 
    I did kinda enjoy meeting families of others I work with while at the
    park.
    
    I wish Digital good luck.  I also wish that Digital didn't loose their
    creative people.  A creative person might have saved this year's
    outting by collecting $5 or $10 bucks each person at the gate and still
    have held the event.  I'd have paid.  Next time I may have to go to
    that school function instead of working that night.  And the only news
    sight of Digital will be what the kids read in the press.
    ed

    Why not suggest that others from DEC who want to go to Canobie Lake
    try to all go on the same date?  No need to lose the fun and
    friendship!
    

    .124 > I am doing Digital a favor by working for the company, and it 
    .124 > ought to demonstrate its gratefulness for that.  A day at
    .124 > Canobie is a mere pittance compared to the income we produce for the
    .124 > company.				  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
           ^^^^^^^
    Let's see, a $1.8 billion loss in FY92 comes out to an average loss of
    about $18,000 per employee.  Given the profitability of the Ultrix
    business, it would be hard to argue that you, Eric,  did the opposite
    of that.  Should you and other employees each offer to stockholders the
    equivalent of $18,000 in free Canobie rides, so that everything comes
    out even?

    the replies to this topic are beginning to stink.  How about some
    constructiveness?

    Mark,
    
    Tell us what makes you feel that the corporation is trusting you,
    encouraging you and rewarding you, such that your loyalty to the
    corporation goes beyond your stipulated salary and benefits?
    
    Tell us what you believe the plan is to restore Digital to profitable
    growth?

    re: Last quarter's performance:
    $18,000 loss per employee *is* rather dismal sounding.  Look at in terms
    of seconds worked in the quarter (1.8m/(62 days*8hrs/day*3600sec/hr))
    and it comes out to just $1000 per second; a much lower number.  ;-)
    

>       <<< Note 1612.137 by LJOHUB::NSMITH "rises up with eagle wings" >>>
>                           -< What a nice idea...! >-

>    Why not suggest that others from DEC who want to go to Canobie Lake
>    try to all go on the same date?  No need to lose the fun and
>    friendship!
 
There are places like Canonbie Lake in the UK, but the company here has
never put on a free trip there for employees, never mind a regular event.

in the UK, we have to _PAY_ to go to such places. Maybe you folks from
New England could try doing this and see how you get on, rather than
expecting a free ride from the company.

What about keeping Canonbie lake as an employee day, but asking people to 
pay?

I wouldn't mind a free day at a fun park, but I'd rather have a job.

Craig

>     <<< Note 1612.140 by SDSVAX::SWEENEY "Patrick Sweeney in New York" >>>
>                        -< Take the first step for us >-

>    Tell us what you believe the plan is to restore Digital to profitable
>    growth?

Implement the "small company" mentality in the organisation. It's amazing
to see small companies which have _no_ personnel department for instance, little
or no beaurocacy, paper shufflers, empire builders or lack of direction.
They're fast moving, motivated, have strategy and direction and don't 
seem to be run by Civil Servants.

If DEC could operate like a small company, then maybe things would be a bit
better.

Even notesfiles, which have great potential for changing this company
for the good, are really not touching their full potential due to:
- Notes not being developed fully, compare Lotus Notes for instance
- Notes not being recongised as an offical channel for doing anything
- Management pretending notes doesn't exist, or is a nasty problem 
	which might go away if they bury their heads in the sand.
- Topics being ratholed and people talking about frivolities,
	and trivial side issues.

	Craig

    I wouldn't mind paying my share of the cost to have a day out
    with colleages and their children.  But at this late date, it is
    going to be hard to explain why i continue to work for someone
    who can't plan ahead...mwr

    Re: Replies to my reply.
    
     Ya know, I just wrote a 77 line reply responding to all those neat
    little comments you all made. I entered it, then deleted it after
    it occured to me that either (a) those making the replies are too
    emotional to carry on a constructive discussion and/or (b) you all are
    attempting to provoke me into a defensive situation that simply raises
    your own sense of self worth.
    
     I'm sure those truly interested in Canobie Lake topic don't want this
    note "rat holed" so I won't perpetuate the ego_building_trips...
    
     I also hate to see Canobie Lake go but life goes on...
    
    
    Glenn

    Re .145
    	Actually Glenn, I read it and thought it was a fine note.  It
    didn't seem defensive to me.

    Jim Morton

	One of the things which annoyed me when I first came to Digital 
and met the culture shock, was the attitude of a number of employees who 
complained about conditions and the amount of workspace they had and the 
state of the canteen etc.... I was even told "Once you're in Digital you 
have a job for life - you practically have to commit fraud or arson to 
be chucked out"

	In the past I have worked in freezing cold portacabins, with a 
kettle.  OK my choice, but if you want to start complaining that Digital 
OWES you something just look at how much you get and don't even consider.

	You are employed to do a job.  You agree to do it and receive an 
agreed remuneration and benefits package in return.  You have a right to 
expect a certain level of good working conditins as laid down by the 
legislation of the country you work for.

	I know Digital keeps me because they want my skills.  I have no 
illusions but that I will go if they no longer need those skills no 
matter how brilliant I may be.  Hard luck to me for being in the wrong 
place at the wrong time, but while I am here, I owe Digital what I 
promised to deliver and they owe me what they promised.  Nothing more or 
less.  OK Digital sometimes gives me an added benefit - Marks & 
Spencer's vouchers at Christmas, I sometimes get in early and give 
Digital an extra hour or so a day.... Don't start telling me I have to 
do that extra hour EVERY day because I sometimes chose to!!!

	Cathy

    re: Beyond pay
    
    Interesting to contrast the arguments that neither Digital nor its
    employees owe each other anything beyond direct economic obligations
    with the articles I read in various business publications about really
    successful, dynamic companies - which do everything they can to engage
    the loyalty of their employees beyond "mere pay".  They also attempt
    to make sure that at least some of the rewards of loyalty and
    enthusiastic (as opposed to dutiful) participation flow back to their
    employees.
    
    /Butch

    re -.1 
    
      The point is that many people believed (in good faith), that there
    was a 'Special relationship' in DEC - that we weren't mere wage slaves,
    but part of a familiy that shared in the rewards - typified by 100%
    reinvestment of profits.
    
    Now that has changed, and the reaction has been one of two things :-
                                                                       
    a) We are now wage slaves, and the Special relationship is no more,
       and that its look after number one time.
                                                                       
    b) That we should still honour our part of the special relationship,
       even if Digital is chucked in its half, because we 'owe' it to the
       Company (because we are lucky to have a job), or sometimes with 
       a more calculating position, that working your butt off, will ensure 
       your personal survival (through the survival of DEC).
                                                                       
    Both are reasonable moral positions to take - I'll leave it for you to
    decide which is preferable /intelligent.
    
    
    Winton 

    Re .138:
    
    > Let's see, a $1.8 billion loss in FY92 comes out to an average loss of
    > about $18,000 per employee.
    
    First, most of the "loss" was a "restructuring charge" -- money that is
    going to go to the employees who are being laid off.  That's not money
    the rest of us have cost the corporation.  And that's real cute;
    laid-off non-productive employees get several months' pay, but retained
    productive employees get a canceled invitation worth less than $20. 
    Wow, this company's values really make sense.
    
    Second, it is employees who produce revenue.  Digital clearly could not
    operate without employees.  If the company is not making a profit from
    our revenue, it is because Digital is not using what we produce to full
    advantage.
    
    > Given the profitability of the Ultrix business, it would be hard to
    > argue that you, Eric,  did the opposite of that.
    
    No, it would not be hard at all.  There are two Ultrix groups.  The
    former UEG group accumulated an enormous backlog of problem reports for
    the Berkeley-derived Ultrix and is now working on Ultrix/OSF.  The
    former RSX group has taken over the Berkeley-derived Ultrix and has
    reduced the backlog substantially.  (Prior to that, the RSX group had
    reduced its SPRs to zero and kept them there.)
    
    
    				-- edp

    We all know that DEC is in crisis mode.  If we had personal financial
    crises that were proportionally equivalent to the one DEC is in,
    wouldn't most of us choose to cut out the non-essentials for a while?
    
    Even if it were painful for family members, wouldn't most readers put
    long-term financial survival ahead of short-term pleasures if they were
    the decision-maker?
    
    I will support almost anything that can help this company grow and
    prosper again.  Bob Palmer is probably going to have to make a lot more
    unpopular decisions before he manages to turn the company around.  It
    would be easy to criticize some of the ones I don't like, but I don't
    have all the data he has.  I'm glad I'm not sitting in his chair, and I
    don't think I'm more qualified for the job than he is, so I'm willing
    to try to live with what he decides.
    
    If I had kids, this is a decision that I wouldn't *like*, but that I would
    *support*.

re .148

>	really successful, dynamic companies - which do everything they can 
>	to engage the loyalty of their employees beyond "mere pay".  They 
>	also attempt to make sure that at least some of the rewards of 
>	loyalty and enthusiastic (as opposed to dutiful) participation flow 
>	back to their employees.

	Note that this is a feedback loop:

	    +--> Loyal employees --> Profitable business --+
            |                                              |
	    +---Money to reward employees for loyalty <----+


	We've hit a discontinuity that has broken this loop. I fear it will
	be (is being) replaced with the following feedback system:


	    +--> Disheartened employees --> Unprofitable business --+
            |                                                       |
	    +---Less money to reward employees <--------------------+


	One of the biggest challenges for Bob Palmer is to ensure that
	the lower cycle is not established, and to see that the former
	cycle is restored.

					Tom_K

    Re .136:
    
    > A creative person might have saved this year's outting by collecting
    > $5 or $10 bucks each person at the gate and still have held the event.
    
    I called Canobie Lake Park on Friday, when it was still a rumor.  I
    spoke to one person who transferred me to the group sales department
    who transferred me to somebody else who suggested that I wait until the
    rumor was confirmed and call back when I had "permission" to go ahead.
    
    I called again yesterday.  Nobody was available from the group sales
    department, so I left my name and number.  They have not called back.
    
    Apparently Canobie Lake Park is not interested in making up any of the
    hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue they have lost.
    
    
    				-- edp

         I too am sorry to see Canobie cancelled, but given our last
    quarter I understand that this company needs to be run very
    differently. 
         All change is painful and this is a big change for this company.
    If you read the string of notes the pain of this cancellation seems to
    be felt for different reasons by different people. For me its felt for
    the children of the employees who look foward to going to Canobie for a
    day of fun. I can't honestly say I looked foward to going to Canobie
    and the only time I have ever attended is when I was required to work
    the gate. 
    
         I don't really want to get into a contest with folks in here about
    how bad big brother Digital is to its employees. Overall, I like
    working here and I do feel I owe the company, not for having a job or
    because of the "added benefits" (and there are a lot), but because of
    the fact that I do work here - I am loyal to the place I choose 
    to work at and the people I choose to work for.
    
         My feeling is that we haven't saved the company by cancelling
    Canobie, but I am sure that wasn't the objective. My feeling is that
    this move is a perception thing. Cuts need to be made everywhere and
    this is just another area that could be cut (remember it wasn't just
    Canobie it is outings world wide). I don't think any of know the actual
    dollar figure that could be placed on outings world wide, but seeing
    what takes place in the U.S. alone I could guess that the savings are
    significant. For folks who think this is not a perception thing, or that
    with a 2 billion dollar loss we don't need a perception thing to make
    folks realize the situation Digital is in - go back and read this string
    of notes. Many of our fellow workers still don't realize. The notes that
    prompted me to write this were "Digital does nothing for us and it
    isn't a family company any more" and "we must really be in trouble if
    we are cancelling Canobie".
    
        As far as what Digital "owes" its employees? How many of the
    following fall under that category? How many of the following and how much 
    of the following should have gone before Canobie?
    
                          * Your Salary
                          * Medical assistance
                          * Dental assistance
                          * STD
                          * LTD
                          * Basic Life Ins.
                          * Paid Holidays
                          * Vacation 
                          * Adoption Benefit
                          * Child Care Resource and Referal
                          * EAP
                          * Health Services
                          * Purchase Program
                          * Credit Union
                          * Metpay
                          * Educational Assistance
                          * Matching Gift Program
                          * U.S. Savings Bonds
                          * Opt Out Choice (medical)
                          * Tax exempt reimbursment accounts 
                          * Optional Life
                          * SAVE
                          * Pension
                          * Stock
                          * Retiree Benefits
                          * Student Loan program
                          * Relocation
                          * Ongoing Employee Activities events  
    
         I'm sure others could list more "benefits" provided by the company
    (both required and not). I know most sites "do their own thing" in the
    area of seminars and employee activities and some sites do more than
    others. I understand people being upset, I understand people feeling
    sorry, but I don't understand people who choose to work for a company
    that look to bash any and all decisions just for the sake of bashing.
    I'm one who feels that the company gives more than it owes to employees
    and employees owe it to themselfs to take advantage of the programs in
    place to make themselfs more useful and marketable both internal and
    external to Digital. 
        
                               John

    I've been with DEC for 5 years and I guess that I didn't know just how
    much we have been missing here in fly-over land (Minneapolis, MN). We
    have never been given annual:
     
     1. Trips to some place like Lake Canobie.
     2. Turkeys at holiday time.
     3. Gift vouchers for Marks and Spencer's (Whatever that is!).
    
    Are these bennies that are only given to certain geographys for some
    reason that is not clear to me?  Will someone please explain to me why
    this policy of distributing perks has not been instituted company-wide.
    I can certainly understand why this program has been cut back or
    eliminated. I just wish that I would have had the opportunity to enjoy
    them when times were good along with the rest of you.
    
    Virgil

>    Are these bennies that are only given to certain geographys for some
>    reason that is not clear to me?  Will someone please explain to me why
>    this policy of distributing perks has not been instituted company-wide.

    YES, I WOULD LIKE AN ANSWER TO THIS AS WELL!!!!!!

    What do you want to bet that this topic will be totally ignored
    by our self centered "New England" brothers?

    --- Paul

    re .155/.156 Canobie is an event that most employees in the U.S.
    northeast can take part in. The others I'm not sure about. 
    Does your group/site do anything in the area of employee appreciation
    events? I know most sites/regions do one thing or another. If we could
    get an idea of all the events that take place maybe we could get an
    idea of what "cancelling outings worldwide" really means. 
    
    A couple of things I forgot on my list in .154 were awards dinners,
    award gifts and anniversary certificates (thanks to the folks who sent
    me mail to remind me I forgot those).

    also re: .155 and .156
    
    I'm in New England.  I'm not going to ignore you.  I don't know the answer.
    
    I always assumed that other geographies had equivalent activities to
    Canobie, since no folks from other parts of the country had "days" at
    Canobie.
    
    I always assumed that other geographies got turkeys or the equivalent.
    
    Apparently from reading this conference over the last couple of years,
    that isn't the case.
    
    I'm sorry you haven't or hadn't been getting what we here in New
    England get.  
    
    For what it's worth, I went to Canobie once in the previous 12 years
    I've worked with the company.  I turned over all but 2 or 3 of the
    turkeys to charity.  I won't miss these awards either way.  Even as a
    purely symbolic gesture, cancelling Canobie and discontinuing turkeys
    (if that in fact happens) was to me the right thing to do.
    
    John

    
    re: -.155
    
    you didn't miss much........Canobie Lake is at best a third rate
    amusment park (only one semi-decent short roller coaster).  I'm
    an amusment park fan and slightly picky.  8^)
    
    
    The turkeys are fine, but I always preferred to buy smoked turkey
    for the Holidays, anyway.
    
    When I worked in Maynard I always wondered if EVERYONE was getting
    turkeys or just NEw England.  Now I know they weren't.  Also  
    a good portion of those turkeys ended up donated to needy families by 
    marking the card and turning it in so it was half charity in an odd sort 
    of way.  Not that it makes it more 'equtable' to the rest of the
    company.
    
    I'm suprised knowone mentioned the New England Helicopter service.  No
    charge to employees or customers travelling on business.  Sort of a
    benny, when you consider how many companies have their OWN helicopter
    fleet complete with airport terminal, pilots, helipads, etc.....Surely
    the van services cost less at $30 bucks a ride than a Belljet from
    Maynard to Logan at 1500 feet with three passengers aboard??
    

    
    I'm not trying to rub salt into a wound, but Albuquerque, had it's
    Family Day at Cliff's Amusement Park, we also had our Employee
    Appreciation Day and luncheon for the employees who SERPed out of 
    Digital, we didn't get our usual gifts (towel, tote bag, etc). 
    Maybe we are different companies.....

    Here in Dallas, we tend to have some sort of Summer and Winter
    activity.  In the summer it usually is Six Flags.  In the winter it is
    usually some sort of theme dinner/party.

    The one thing that has always bothered me is knowing that 10's of
    thousands of people in New England got into their events free while our
    several hundred people always had to pay $10 or $15/person for ours.

    Bob

�      <<< Note 1612.156 by GLDOA::PENFROY "Just Do It or Just Say No?" >>>
�    What do you want to bet that this topic will be totally ignored
�    by our self centered "New England" brothers?

	That is a needlessly cruel and cutting remark that I will not ignore.

	Just because your local management has not seen fit to do something
	nice for you, don't begrudge us that fact that ours has.  What does 
	falsely labeling us "self centered" gain you? 

	You lose the bet.			--Mike

    
    I have to echo Virgil's sentiments. I work in Metro Detroit, and I have
    never received a turkey, or gift vouchers,. There have been a couple of
    outings, but I can't recall (since I did not attend) whether or not
    Digital paid for them.         
    
    Although my group has been told that we are not going to be impacted by
    the cuts, the pressure is definitley on to over-produce, and generate
    revenue for the company. I am of the previously-mentioned mindset that
    Digital "owes" me the salary that I earn for the job that I do. Nothing
    more, nothing less, the rest of the "warm fuzzies" are not owed but
    have been around so long as to be expected.....
    
    John

>	That is a needlessly cruel and cutting remark that I will not ignore.
>
>	Just because your local management has not seen fit to do something
>	nice for you, don't begrudge us that fact that ours has.  What does 
>	falsely labeling us "self centered" gain you? 

    Sorry you took it so hard. One thing I have learned about Notes, if you
    want a topic to gain visibility, you have to be somewhat
    confrontational. 

    So, I lost the bet but gained the desired result.

    --- Paul

�      <<< Note 1612.164 by GLDOA::PENFROY "Just Do It or Just Say No?" >>>
�    Sorry you took it so hard. One thing I have learned about Notes, if you
�    want a topic to gain visibility, you have to be somewhat
�    confrontational. 

	Bull.

�    So, I lost the bet but gained the desired result.

	Oh, I see, insulting _me_ gains the attention of _your_ management.

	Eye-yi-yi.		--Mike

    Re .151:
    
    > Even if it were painful for family members, wouldn't most readers put
    > long-term financial survival ahead of short-term pleasures if they were
    > the decision-maker?

    Digital is not a human being.  It does not experience "pleasures".  I
    have pointed out elsewhere how Digital ignores the long-term effects of
    its short-term decisions.  An employee outing at Canobie is a
    short-term cost with a long-term payoff -- morale.  By paying for
    employee outings at Canobie, Digital is not buying itself "pleasures";
    it is investing in its employees.  By failing to invest in us, Digital
    tells us it does not think we are worthwhile or will produce anything
    to return their investment.
    
    But even if we do use your analogy, a person going through bankruptcy
    is not expected to live a life entirely devoid of pleasures.  Certainly
    they are allowed more than .1% of their income for entertainment.
    
    
    				-- edp

    And to GLDOA::PENFROY, you got our attention.  So what?  What if
    anything do you expect us to do about it?
    
    As I said, I rarely partake in these pleasures.  I don't really care
    that they're gone.  I don't have the power to do anything about it. 
    Most of us reading the conference don't either.
    
    My attitude is complain to someone who cares.
    
    John

    Patrick,
    
    I guess we don't share the same values.  I read notes from lots of
    people that seem (in my opinion) to be equating their worth to the job
    that they do and the compensation that they receive from the Company. 
    I don't.  As a result, when the Company changes their compensation, I
    don't react like others, "Digital ... does not think we are
    worthwhile".  Boo, hoo.
    
    I didn't take this job because it paid the most.  I honestly felt that
    DEC was the best opportunity for me to learn new stuff in the computer
    industry.  That was twelve years ago, and DEC had recently introduced
    the VAX.  Today, we are poised to introduce Alpha.  There's plenty to
    do, and this time I'm on the team that's gonna do it.
    
    You are too.

>    And to GLDOA::PENFROY, you got our attention.  So what?  What if
>    anything do you expect us to do about it?

    I don't expect you to do anything about it. I was simply trying to raise
    awareness of the fact that there are INEQUITIES in benefits between
    corporate and the field. That's all.

    It's annoying to sit out here in the field and listen to people cry-baby 
    about the loss of a benefit (Canobie Lake, etc) that we never had the
    opportunity to enjoy.

    --- Paul

I suppose a lot of it comes down to a few questions:

1. Is Digital interested in good employee morale right now?  Perhaps not, 
because it's one way to trim with workforce without so many of those pesky
restructuring charges.  And, quite valid at that.  Or, it could be interested
in morale.  I don't know.

2. Can you buy morale?  I don't know. 

3. Can Digital afford morale?  In the long term, it'd have to, but as usual,
we are talking about the short term here.

4. Is more morale "bought" by having this outing, or by cancelling it?  Clearly,
there are strong points to be made on both sides.  Either buy a relatively
cheap warm fuzzy for a bunch of people, or do a public display of cutting 
waste.  Both will rub a subset of people the right way.

One thing's for certain, though, and that's whether or not morale can be
bought, it can most certainly be squandered.

    RE: .154  by JSANTOS
    
    >As far as what Digital "owes" its employees? How many of the following
    >fall under that category? How many of the following and how much  of
    >the following should have gone before Canobie?
    
    Some of what you described as benefits have little to do with
    Digital's compensation to us as workers.  Let's take a look at the
    list, shall we?
    
[relatively unchanged]    * Your Salary
[costs us more]           * Medical assistance
[costs us more]           * Dental assistance
[costs us more]           * STD
[costs us more]		  * LTD
[costs us more]           * Basic Life Ins.
[whoopee!]                * Paid Holidays
[TWO weeks?!]             * Vacation 
[of limited use]          * Adoption Benefit
[of limited use]          * Child Care Resource and Referal
[I bet they're busy]      * EAP
[gone from some sites]    * Health Services
[won't even take a call]  * Purchase Program
[separate, remember?]     * Credit Union
[this a benefit?]         * Metpay
                          * Educational Assistance
[I appreciate this a lot] * Matching Gift Program
[not a benefit at all]    * U.S. Savings Bonds
                          * Opt Out Choice (medical)
                          * Tax exempt reimbursment accounts 
[DEC pays $ on this?]     * Optional Life
                          * SAVE
[if you're vested]        * Pension
[wish now I'd sold]       * Stock
[different from pension?] * Retiree Benefits
[educational assistance?] * Student Loan program
[fat chance]              * Relocation
[paid for by EAC sales]   * Ongoing Employee Activities events  
    

In other words, between the increases in "employee contributions to the benefits
package", inflation, and the 15-18 month pay raise cycle that (the lucky?) 
people are on, many of us have been seeing a steady, albeit slight, reduction
in our compensation over the last few years.  Your mileage may vary, and will
vary considerably if you have a company car, I s'pose.

re .154

>	I can't honestly say I looked foward to going to Canobie
>	and the only time I have ever attended is when I was required to work
>	the gate. 

	I seem to recall being told that those working at CLP were
	volunteers. Was this really not the case?

					Tom_K

So which results in higher morale, Canobie Lake or the cancellation of
Canobie Lake?  People outside MA/NH probably like the idea of the
cancellation since it brings them closer to equity with MA/NH folks.
A lot of people in MA/NH like the idea of cutting back on a frill.
Cancelling Canobie Lake has been a very popular DELTA suggestion,
and I doubt if it's the people outside of MA/NH who were making it
(most had probably never heard of it).

    re. 171  All that I described fall under our compensation plan at DEC.
    
    Are you going to finish your note and compare every bullet to what
    other companies are doing? That note was in response to notes that said
    
    you took Canobie away and that was the last thing the company offered
    us as employees. But, what the heck lets look at them again and please
    remember we are talking company wide.
    
    * Your Salary (relatively unchanged) - To who? You? How much do you
    think the company gave in increases over the past year? Millions?
    
    * Medical assistance
    * Dental assistance (costs us more) - who is us? If the company has to
      pay in the area of $600 million per year by 1995 how much of that
      $600 million should be passed on to the employee? Do you think
      medical and dental costs have gone down?
    * STD - costs you nothing
    * LTD - if you get the 50% coverage its totally company paid
    * Basic Life Ins - no charge
    * Optional Life Ins - costs are the same and you can sign up for it
      (during an open enrollment) with no limitations.
    * Paid Holidays - no change
    * Vacation (2 weeks) - I've been here 14 years I get 4 weeks - how long
      have you been here?  
    * Adoption Benefit (of limited use) - maybe to you. Do you know if this
      benefit costs more than Canobie?
    * Child Care resource (of limited use) - see previous 
    * EAP (i'll bet they are busy) - So, if they are busy it means bringing
    more people on to cover, therefore the company has an additional expense.
    * Health Services (gone from some sites) - some sites still have them.
    * Purchase Program (won't even take a call) - If you know that for sure
    do something about it.
    * Credit Union (separate, remember) - Thats right, and being a seperate
    company Digital offers them space to allow a benefit to employees.
    * Metpay (thats a benefit?) see credit union
    * Matching Gifts (I appreciate this one a lot) - Did you mis-write????
    * US Savings Bonds (not a benefit at all) - Oh really? You can elect to
    purchase through payroll deductions so I would guess that Digital is
    picking up administration costs.
    * Optional Life (DEC pays money on this?) - You may purchase at group
    rates, also see US Savings Bonds.
    * Pension (if your vested?) Are you vested? "Most" employees are.
    * Retiree Benefits (different from Pension?) - Yes.
    * Student Loan Program (different from educational assistance?) - Yes.
    * Relocation (fat chance) - I suggest you count the jobs on VTX that
    have this benefit.
    * Ongoing Employee Activities events (paid for by EAC sales) Guess
    again. I would guess that EAC sales cover about 1/100th of this
    expense. 
           You didn't comment on the biggies (Educational assistance, SAVE,
    Opt Out, Tax exempt accounts).
    
         I really didn't want to get into a contest here. If you take
    advantage of what is offered thats fine. If you don't want to take
    advantage thats fine too. If all these things we mentioned have little
    or no value to you why the heck do you have a problem with the
    cancellation of Canobie?

    re. 173 Outing workers were volunteers outing managers were not.
    I was an outing manager.  

    
    	Hey all you people in the field:  Canobie Lake is really a small,
    almost dumpy place.  Far from anything you might have had in your mind
    (don't _even_ say that Dis* word).  It started to pick up a little the
    last few years but it definitely doesn't deserve a big sign on the
    freeway.
    
    	So what's the deal??  For most people this WAS the company picnic! 
    The company hired Tobin to cater a neat picnic (and probably more
    expensive than the park).  We sat around talking and chewing sweet corn
    while the monsters went on the rides.  It was like your family reunion. 
    The _idea_ that we can't have a company picnic seems more upsetting
    than all the discussion about benefits or any savings.  
    
    	What if your family stopped having reunions (maybe they already did)?  
    People would probably be upset for a while then get on with their lives - 
    but they also wouldn't get in touch as often.  They would feel less 
    connected as a part of a larger group.  And soon there would be no real 
    discussion about whether or not to have one since they no longer felt like
    'family'. 
    
    	Could happen to a company too, couldn't it?
    JN

��    * Credit Union (separate, remember) - Thats right, and being a seperate
��    company Digital offers them space to allow a benefit to employees.

    If you could refrain from describing the credit union as a
    benefit, I'd appreciate it.

    The DCU is staffed by rude, incompetent people offering an
    uncompetative product.  If digital wanted to better utilize
    the space, they could allow local banks to bid a banking
    service package for employees, in exchange for the privelege
    of using digital space.  This would not be without precedent,
    as there is a branch of Barclay's bank in REO.

    As far as I can tell, the DCU exists to provide customers for
    the employee assistance program.  At least that's what I feel
    like after visting them.  Perhaps digital could offer site
    dogs for kicking?

    If I get any more benefits like the DCU, I'll be checking out
    the long term disability insurance.

    ...and now back to canobie lake, which as far as I can tell
    infuriates both the people who don't go, and the people who
    do.   Or, maybe they do like the food, and they're just
    teasin'!

    	- Lee Lindquist

    Well, you certainly can't please some of the people any of the time.
    
    Lee, I see the DCU as a benefit ... one I make frequent use of.  I've
    never experienced the rude, incompetent people you speak of.  Quite 
    the opposite ... I'd rather do business there than with some of the 
    local banks in the area.  I don't know where you work, but I've done
    business with DCU branches in Marlboro, Shrewsbury, and Littleton, and
    never run into the kind of problems you seem to have with them.
    
    As for Canobie Lake, the company can't win no matter what they do.
    If they kept the program, people would complain about how the company
    spends money on programs like this while people lose their jobs.  Since
    they cancelled it, well, people always need something to complain
    about.  So Lee, let's say they did keep it.  Would you be willing to
    volunteer to be TFSO'ed, along with a few other folks, to pay for it? 
    I'll bet not.  You can't have it both ways.  We need to find ways to
    cut discretionary spending, and this is one of the more sensible
    decisions I've seen recently in that regard (IMO, of course).
    
    John Santos, you neglected to mention another benefit which, in my
    experience, is unique to Digital ... namely these Notes conferences,
    where people can spend company time and resources whining and moaning
    about how unfair the company is treating them.
    
    Seems like the same old story here ... everybody knows the company's in
    trouble, but everybody wants someone else to 'fess up to owning the
    problem.  Sure, cut programs ... just make sure they don't affect ME.
    That's the kind of horse-hockey mentality that got us to this point. 
    Nearly everyone in this company knew we were heading for economic
    problems 3 or 4 years ago, but nobody wanted to be the one to make the
    changes required to prevent it from happening.  Now we all have to bite
    the bullet, and no matter what the company does, somebody's not going
    to like it.
    
    Personally, I think the employees who are angered by the decision to
    cut this program are in a minority in the company, and that this is one
    of the better ways to cut spending without affecting people's ability
    to pay their bills and feed their families.  Instead of moaning about
    it, I think people should encourage the company to take more steps like
    this one, that'll mean a small sacrifice for a segment of the company
    rather than a large sacrifice for selected individuals.
    
    ... Bob

    re.178 It seems my experience and yours are very different. 
    > Perhaps Digital could offer site dogs for kicking.
    Isn't that what Personnel is here for?
    
    > If I get any more benefits like the DCU, I'll be checking out the
    > long term disability insurance.
      Why the heck would the DCU bother you so much? Just avoid it if 
      you feel that way. Like most benefits, its there if you want it.
    
    > ...and now back to Canobie Lake, which as far as I can tell
    > infuriates both the people who don't go, and the people who do
     I think you were being sarcastic, but I think your right on with this
    one.
           So, I guess your answer to my question is that you would
    get rid of the Credit Unions before Canobie. You might be out voted
    on this one...                                  

    re: .169
    
    Thank you for raising our awareness about the inequities.  There are
    inequities everywhere.  Whoever said life was fair?
    
    John

>    Thank you for raising our awareness about the inequities.  There are
>    inequities everywhere.  Whoever said life was fair?

    Gee John, you're right! Life is not fair. I'm sorry for bringing up the
    issue of inequities at DEC. Silly me. I should have just ignored the
    whole situation. Will you forgive me?

    --- Paul

re .178

	Lee, I see from ELF that you are in ZKO. I've never experienced
	the ZKO DEFCU staff to be anything but polite and professional.
	And that includes my experience during a "disagreement" regarding
	the last Board election. Speaking of which, the DEFCU now has 
	a completely new Board of Directors, and is making steady improvement.
	If you left a few years ago in disgust (and few would blame you),
	take another look. Not perfect, but getting better.

re .180


>	Just avoid it if you feel that way. Like most benefits, its there 
>	if you want it.

	Wrong. A benefit that one doesn't use is no benefit. Those who
	design our compensation and benefits package need to learn this.

					Tom_K

    re.183 All benefits are not used by everyone, but this does not negate
           the fact that they are still "benefits" offered by the company.
        
           Given your last statement about people that design benefits,
           what benefits, IYO, should be done away with?
        

    Hey folks - the topic under discussion here was/is the cancellation
    of the Canobie Lake outing, not a general benefits discussion which
    it's developing into. A considerable number of responses have indicated
    that some would've been willing to pay some sort of payment to continue
    the event. Perhaps in the need to make a decision surrounding whether
    to cancel or not, that option wasn't looked into. Someone mentioned
    that cancelling was a topic in DELTA IDEAS that seemed to be being
    well received. Again, I think some credit should be given to the
    fact that it was cancelled, and communications around the reasoning
    was sent out. This is far better than "WE CANCELLED IT PERIOD".
    Granted this particular Employee activity was New England area
    folks who went to it. I also see where Geneva's outing was also
    cancelled in the announcement, and in some responses I've seen
    where other sites (Texas and Colorado I believe) had somewhat
    similar events, although employees paid towards them versus the
    Canobie Lake function which did not involve Employee's paying
    for entrance to the park or the Tobin's food.
    
    Like some others have far more eloquently stated though, I see some
    of the remarks and comments which are not called for, serve no 
    constructive purpose, and in some cases are totally inappropriate.
    While they may 'increase awareness' they also tend to increase
    reciprocal responses of a like nature.
    
    Just another two cents worth
    
    	-J-
    

re .183

	Thanks for asking.

	What I'd like to see has been suggested before:

	Digital says "This year we are giving you $xxx worth of benefits.
	Pick $xxx worth of benefits from the following list:"

		Plan A Health insurance $xxxx
		Plan b Health insurance $yyyy
		LTD                     $zzzz
		$aaa in Life insurance  $bbbb
				.
				.
				.

	That way, people pick what they can use. Maybe the company saves money
	because the company doesn't have to pay for stuff that few people
	use.

						Tom_K

    Your welcome. My guess is it wouldn't be that simple. If we have 100
    people taking advantage of a benefit and it costs the company $100 - if
    one person droped the benefit my guess is that the company wouldn't
    save $1. because the cost of each program is based on the group not on 
    the individual.  
    

    RE: .175  by JSANTOS
    
    >* Your Salary (relatively unchanged) - To who? You? 
    
    Obviously, seeing as how I haven't bothered to go and look everybody
    else's up in VTX, mine's the only one I know about, but I get a sense
    that a lot of people have not seen their salary increase much in the
    past few years.  Oh, they're probably amongst the deadwood we're getting
    rid of, right?  And the new hires we're picking up to replace them will
    be even cheaper.
    
    >* Vacation (2 weeks) - I've been here 14 years I get 4 weeks - how long
    >  have you been here?  
    
    You're in personnel and you can't figure that out?
    
    >* Matching Gifts (I appreciate this one a lot) - Did you mis-write????
    
    No.  What do you take me for, a complete whiner?
    
    >* Pension (if your vested?) Are you vested? "Most" employees are.
    
    See vacation time above.  By the way, if somebody gets canned two weeks
    short of the five year mark, are they vested?
    
    >If all these things we mentioned have little or no value to you why the
    >heck do you have a problem with the cancellation of Canobie?
    
    I did not say that "all" of them had little or no value, nor have I
    ventured, at any time, in this or any other conference, an opinion as
    to the importance of Canobie Lake Park as an employee benefit.
    
    What I am saying is the value of the compensation offered by Digital
    has been eroding in recent years.  I'm not saying it's no better than
    Burger Kringe or Junkin Donuts.
    

While I agree with .185 that it's unfortunate that this is becoming a
discussion of benefits in general, I'd like to get in one last lick
(it *is* sort of Canobie-Lake-related).

re .175:

>    * Adoption Benefit (of limited use) - maybe to you. Do you know if this
>      benefit costs more than Canobie?

OK, how much does the Adoption Benefit cost DEC?  How much did Canobie Lake
cost?  How much is it costing us to cancel it?  Will it cost us anything
next year (assuming it's not going to be held then)?  If this information's
not available to employees, why not?

	I know it isn't simple, but I believe that some other companies
	manage to do it. 

	BTW: John, I appreciate your participation here. I'm hope it doesn't
	come across as if I'm trying to beat you up.  You've conducted 
	yourself quite professionally in some quite difficult discussions,
	and while I don't always agree with you, I appreciate your point of
	view.

				Tom_K

    re.190 Thanks. I for one think notes are very important to be aware
    of. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in this company that hold
    the power to make sudden positive impacts with valid points in here that are
    either read only or don't even bother to participate. I have learned
    through notes (reading, writing and prompting others to write) that
    notes is probibly the most valid communication tool we have at DEC.
    How do I know this to be fact? Before I give any presentations (medical
    benefits, LTD and others) I always check notes to find out what type of
    questions I will be asked. More often than not the questions I'm asked
    come out of here.
    
    re. 189 I don't know the answers to your questions I simply asked the
    question to make folks realize that every benefit, no matter how much
    you or I use them, cost the company money and are very much appreciated
    by the people who have/will use them. BTW, I've asked the same
    questions you asked to people who *know* those answers and that
    information wasn't available to me either. Why not? I don't know. 
             
    

	I promised my kids we would go whether DEC cancelled or not.
	Does anyone know how late in the Fall the park typically 
	stays open to the general public. OR does anyone have a
	phone number handy that one could call to find out?

				Thanks,

					Lew

	By the way my kids don't consider Canobie Lake a second class
	experience at all; to them its totally WONDERFUL!! It doesn't 
	matter to them how the experience compares to any other park.
	They just TOTALLY enjoy what they have got available. Neat!

    FYI, Canobie Lake Park *normally* is open to the general public thru 
    Labor Day (9/7) only! In fact, their 1993 literature (and discount
    coupons available thru various local merchants) attest to this date.
    The reason for this relatively early 'closing' was due to the fact that
    Digital booked the park for every weekend thru mid-late October. A
    major win for CLP because they got guaranteed income thru the early fall, 
    rain or shine. 
    
    On such short notice, I don't know if CLP will open for general
    admission in lieu of the DEC outing. If they've already been paid $xxx
    for the DEC reservations, they may find it more profitable to stay
    closed and layoff the seasonal employees a few weeks early.
    
    If anyone knows for certain what their plans are, please post them
    here. 
    
    Regards,

��          <<< Note 1612.179 by CUPTAY::BAILEY "Season of the Winch" >>>
��                   -< maybe the dark is from your eyes ... >-

��    about.  So Lee, let's say they did keep it.  Would you be willing to
��    volunteer to be TFSO'ed, along with a few other folks, to pay for it? 
��    I'll bet not.  You can't have it both ways.  We need to find ways to
��    cut discretionary spending, and this is one of the more sensible
��    decisions I've seen recently in that regard (IMO, of course).

    Excuse me Mr. Winch, but I didn't mean to offer an opinion
    on the canobie lake outing.  

    Someone rocked my dcu-as-a-benefit hobby horse, and I
    couldn't resist the temptation to jump on.

    However, a benefit of the cancellation will be the lack of notes
    in this file complaining about:
    	1) How bad the food was / how long the food lines were.
    	2) How long the ride lines were.
    	3) How cold it was / why wasn't it earlier in the season.
    	4) Why can't I take my grandchildren.
    	5) Why do I see people drive up with 10+ "children"
    	6) Why don't parents control their rude children.

    If, as rumor has it, (EMPHASIS ON RUMOR) that we had to pay for the
    park - cancellation clause in contract - couldn't we open the park to
    employees - no food!  I'm sure that volunteers could be found to check
    badges.  Might keep everyone happy.
    
    P.S.    I have not gone for several years so I have no "self-interest".

    RE: 194
    It looks like number 7 could be Number of People complaining
    about other benefits not covered in the Canobie Lake Park
    note.
    

    >> Excuse me Mr. Winch, but I didn't mean to offer an opinion
    >> on the canobie lake outing.  
    
    Oh?  Then what's this (from your reply in .178)?
    
    >> ...and now back to canobie lake, which as far as I can tell
    >> infuriates both the people who don't go, and the people who
    >> do.   Or, maybe they do like the food, and they're just
    >> teasin'!
    
    As to the validity of this comment, I suspect the cancellation of the
    Canobie Lake outing only infuriates the people who want things to get
    better around here, but only if the solution means that somebody ELSE
    has to make the sacrifices.  IMO - there are more important problems
    that affect our viability as a company that we could/should be spending
    our energy resolving.
    
    >> Someone rocked my dcu-as-a-benefit hobby horse, and I
    >> couldn't resist the temptation to jump on.
    
    OK, so it's no benefit to you.  It is to me, and to a lot of folks
    who choose to make use of it.  By all means, stay on your hobby horse. 
    But please don't expect us all to get on there with you.
    
    And of course, you do know my name isn't Mr. Winch, but I suppose
    you're just teasin'!
    
    ... Bob
    

    When I called Canobie Lake Park last night, they said they were open
    through 13 September 1992.  Hours are 12:00 noon through 10:00 PM,
    every day of the week.
    
    I'm planning on taking my kids next week, but I've been doing that on
    my own for the past few years anyway.  [I've only been a Digital
    employee for seven months!]
    
    -- Kenny House

    	What's all this talk about DEC doing outings?  I thought we were
    	a valuing differences company?
    
    	Oh, sorry.
    
    	Wrong note.

    >>What's all this talk about DEC doing outings?  I thought we were
    >>a valuing differences company?
    >>
    >>Oh, Sorry.
    >>
    >>Wrong note.
    
    Wrong conference too :-)   But it gave me a much needed laugh at the
    end of today.
    
    "jackin' the house", Bob
    

    It seems like most is putting down the Canobie outing, personally I
    thaught it was wonderful (the food??? &'p). Seeing many people that I
    have worked with in the past made it even more fun, to catch up with
    old freinds etc. And going on the rides made one forget about being an
    adult for a day. Even though it cost the company a lotof money, it will
    be missed. Maybe when the company is in better shape someday they will
    bring it back.

    Just a friendly warning.........Canobie can close at ANY time after
    Sept. 7th!!!!  THEY ARE MAKING NO PROMISES!!!
    
    My sister works in the food service main office and they have been warned
    that the actual closing date for the Park will be based on 
    attendance this weekend!!!!!!  
    
    If you have ANY plans to get to the Park this year....try to go this
    weekend (if your trying to avoid crowds - go at night - my family 
    went last night 6:00-10:00 and it was great - lines were VERY short
    my husband and my sister went on the cork-screw roller coaster 3 TIMES)
    
    

    How much for last nite ???
    
    Thanks
    pasco
    

    I think it is $8.00 for 6:00-10:00pm.......I really didn't pay
    attention, We had free passes (an added bonus from my sister)
    
    

    Well, I took off yesterday afternoon to take my family to Canobie Lake
    Park.  We were there from about 1:30 until 8:50 PM, had a great time,
    spent a bit under $100 for the four of us ($51 entrance fee, at $14 for
    three people over four feet tall, plus $9 for the shorty;  the rest for
    lunch, snack, dinner;  no souvenirs, no quarters for games), we were
    all tired and happy when we left (I suspended my usual case of
    "grumpies" for the day).
    
    I asked about dates, and was told that they were open daily through
    Labor Day weekend, and then the next two weekends.  This differs from
    what I was told, and reported a few replies back, that they were to
    open daily through the 14th.  Since it seems that they are somewhat
    up-in-the-air about dates, it would be prudent to call before going.
    
    -- Kenny House

    If your  going to take the family etc.  to Canobie, do yourself a favor
    stop by the  Macdonald's  on  rt 28 and pick up some $3 off coupon's to
    save yourself some $'s.
    
    Claude

    I have a stack of those coupons on my desk.....Unfortunately, they
    expire Sept 4th!!!
    
    If anybody would like some????? 

    I heard that because the outing was cancelled after June 1 that the
    invoice from Canobie must be paid in full -- $243,000.00.  And
    that Tobin is charging $75,000.00 due to such a late cancellation.
    
    Comments?
    
    Tom
    

	If this is true, (remember, you "heard" it) then one wonders
	what, outside of the minimal cost of passing out the tickets,
	saving to the company resulted from the decision to cancel.

					Tom_K

    
    Perception is everything
    
    (almost) Agassi :^)

    Remember that the announcement of WANG's trip to Maui was made
    one day before the Canobie cancellation? I can't help but think that
    the negative press received by the WANG outing (while they were about
    to announce bankruptcy proceedings) might have been the impetus for
    canceling Canobie Lake activities one day later. Could just be a
    coincidence of course.
    
    I for one was perfectly happy to see the thing canceled - assuming that
    there was some cost savings involved - I'd question the validity of the
    prior note about having to pay for it anyway, unless those payments are
    cancellation charges LESS than what it would have cost in full.

    DEC actually paid all that to rent the Park and the Tobins food??? And
    now they can not get thier money back? How is the company saving money?
    That is a lot of clams! UGH! I can see cancelling it if they did not
    spend the money inthe first place but everything was all set and the
    moeny was spent.

>>          <<< Note 1612.208 by BEEMER::LAVOIE "Tom Lavoie 293-5705" >>>
>>                      -< No time to read all .207 notes. >-
>>
>>    I heard that because the outing was cancelled after June 1 that the
>>    invoice from Canobie must be paid in full -- $243,000.00.  And
>>    that Tobin is charging $75,000.00 due to such a late cancellation.
>>    
>>    Comments?

I was told a couple of years ago, by a personnel type, that Digital
figured a average of $90 per employee for these outings. This accounts
for family sizes. If you assume that there are potentially 30,000
New England employees to plan for, that is over $2.5 million in expense.

Sounds like cancellation fee to me, and a corporate savings.

John I.    

    re: along the lines of "But... but... we didn't save any money!"
    
    You don't understand...
    
    This wasn't done to save money.
    
    This was done to show us "who's boss" now.
    
    They seemed to be going out of their way to make
    this quite clear in the original announcement; at
    least that's the impression I was left with.
    
    Chris

Some of you are jumping to conclusions based on rumours.  (Not a big problem,
I do it all the time!)   8^)

The problem is when you don't recognize that fact.

Bob

    Gee they keep the Golf Classic though ;')

    Sure sends the "right" type of message...eh?
    
    Marc H.

    
    A lot could be done to end this confusion...
    
    	How about an official statement as to whether the money figures
    stated in here are the total fee or the cancellation charges (ie - did
    we save money on THIS years outing or not). 
    
    But I doubt we will ever see that kind of announcement!!
    
    
    ed

How many times has the DIGITAL Canobie outing been shown on National TV ?

    re -1
    
    Your point?
    

    In all fairness to the Digital Classic.... This is a MAJOR marketing
    event for the company. It gives us major national notoriety. This is
    much better than the PBS marketing idea....
    
    Keep the classic..... Put Canobie on hold (hopefully) for better times. 
    I do agree though, if money has already been spent..., at least keep
    the dates open.... and maybe offer the outing with stipulation that the
    employee pays their own way.... If there were enough participation,
    maybe Digital would get their deposit money back.????
    
    Tobin could still provide the goodies.... Having the employee pay as
    they go, at cafateria prices (or lower)... Maybe if Tobin makes enough
    from this, they will also release the deposit, back to Digital.
    
    Just a thought.
    

    RE: Keeping the Digital Classic -
    	(Set mode SARCASM)
    	Let's get real here. If we cancel the Digital Classic
        we won't have photo's of V.P.'s handing over the 
        obligatory oversized check for $75,000.00 to some 
    	underpaid professional golfer. Plus how would we ever
    	peddle all those Hats and Tee-shirts that say DIGITAL
    	SENIORS CLASSIC on them? Not to mention that we wouldn't
    	have these photo's for the back page of the DTW? Now
    	what was that about trimming expenses?    
    (Set SARCASM OFF)
    
    -  J  -
    
    
            

    
    OK, 200+ notes later 
    
    What if we spent as much effort analyzing lost sales and missed
    opportunities, would they go away too?
    
    Unfortunately, we analyze the trivial and just run away from the big
    business failures and learn nothing from them, dooming ourselves to
    repeat them over and over and ...
    
    This must change
    JN

	Digital Seniors Classic

	  o Air time on ESPN for 4 days
	  o DIGITAL commercials throughout
	  o DIGITAL mentioned several times throughout by announcers
	  o DIGITAL signs at every tee, scoreboard, and each group
	  o A very affluent audience with a high probability of 
	    interest in DIGITAL products
	  o Charity 
	  o Tax write-offs
	  o Product booths featuring new PC's and Alpha

	Companies such as Cadillac and IBM are involved in virtually
	every Senior and PGA Tournament.  Why we didn't go after the
	scoreboard contract is beyond me.  It's shown several times
	an hour 4 days of more than 40 weeks each year!!

	Virtually every golf tournament other than the Majors are
	sponsered by large corporations.  It's terrific that we're
	finally on TV!!

	Why don't people see this for the marketing opportunity
	it is?  I remember the beautiful 2 page Digital ad for
	America's Cup and how it was DEC equipment on board.

	Hopefully there will be many more of these to come.  

	Tom

    RE.224 - all fairly good points, can't argue much with them from
    one perspective. However, the topic under discussion was not whether
    the Digital Classic was a good marketing resource but rather the
    cancellation of an employee event, which perhaps might just as
    well tie into cancelling other events. As far as Television 
    commercials goes, Digital could buy time as do other major 
    companies as just as well. As with the Canobie Lake Park
    cancellation (which I personally support) I guess it's all
    a matter of personal opinion in the end as far as how you feel
    about it. 
    
    _ J _
    
    	P.S. ESPN is not received in all areas, I'd hope that the
    	     coverage was not simply Eastern U.S. but that it was
    	     cross country....othewise someone from say the West
    	     Coast might wonder why Digital isn't sponsoring similar
    	     events out that way ala' Canobie Lake Park.

           RE: .214
               
>   You don't understand...
    
>   This wasn't done to save money.
    
>   This was done to show us "who's boss" now.
    

           I tend to agree with Chris.  Things won't be the same at DEC
           anymore.  Last year we were told it wasn't cancelled 'cause it
           was a way of employee appreciation.  THIS year, things are
           definitely different.  And, why wasn't it cancelled in before
           the "deadline"?  If they just wanted to same some $ on it,
           there's many ways to cut back the waste (ie- meal tickets,
           proof of family members, not to mention people taking cartons
           of ice cream bars on the last days).  It's a shame we go to
           the extremes, instead of some happy meduim.
           
           Steve

    I think if everyone paid 5-10 a head it would have been worth it to
    keep the outing. Many employees would understand that times are tough.
    We could have kept the outing if someone figured out something like
    this. I am sure many employees would pay to give themselves and
    espeially their kids a day of fun and for us to see our freinds and
    co-workers.