Conference vmszoo::rc

    Are you using Castor based fuel?.
    
    EVL-1

>    	The problem is that I can not keep the thing clean, it 
>        seems to be throwing out far to much oil mixed with a 
>        sort of black grit from the exhaust. My first thought 

Sounds like aluminum to me.
I had a similar thing happen on my OS .60 black head.
It turned out the problem was the muffler was chaffing on
the cylinder head where it was mounted.  A little high temp
silicon on the edge of the muffler before bolting it on 
made it go away.

Anyway - loose muffler is my guess.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
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    Sounds like you have 2 issues. Too much oil and black grit. The issue
    of too much oil is relative. What you see as too much oil may be there
    by design. APS has a relatively short warranty period on their engines.
    I think its 90 days. Assuming that you have leaned out the engine as
    much as is allowed, and you still have a lot of oil may be APS way to
    insure warranty past 90 days. The carb may be designed to pass that
    much oil to prevent over heating. As far as black grit... its gotta
    come from some where. I would find it hard to think you could be
    heating the oil up to such high temperature and still get that much
    oil and maintain full power, that the oil would turn to black grit. The
    oil would have to get really hot to ture black and that usually means
    the engine is running too lean ergo...low oil output. Unless the engine
    is designed to run hot which means the carb better be designed to run
    rich... ergo high oil output. 
    
    If you can eliminate all chance of metal chaffing, and you still have the
    black grit. Try changing glow plugs, hot and cool. See if it changes
    anything. My first guess on the black grit is metal chaffing somewhere.
    

    re.3 thats ASP not APS sorry...typo.
    

                My experience  is  that its aluminum and if you can't see
        an obvious source  its  internal.    If its internaql it probebly
        means that the engine  is slowly self-destructing.  Tear it apart
        and look really closely at the con-rod.
        
        Anker

    I have heard that the ASP motors are O.S. clones.  You may want to pull
    the back plate and see if the crank weight is rubbing or if the con rod
    journal is rubbing the back plate.  If it is you may be able to adjust
    the spacing between back plate and conrod journal with spacer washers
    between the prop back plate and the front bearing.  I would generally
    agree that what you are seeing is ground up aluminum.  Is there a
    possibility that you are seeing the residue from the ABC style
    construction wearing in?  
    
    Will

    
    	Thanks for the input guys,
    		there are a few good ideas out there to look at.
    		I have since found someone from the  lab at the
                local university (stirling)  to have a quick look 
    		at a sample of the oil, and give me a basic run down 
    		of what it consist's of, so I am awaiting the results
    		before I start to strip out the motor from the plane.
    
    		I will keep you informed 
    
    
    			steve .......  
    		

    
    HI,
    	still awaiting the results from the lab on the sample of oil,
    	so I decided to strip the motor down.
    	The entire inside was spotless, not a sign of rubbing or grinding 
    	anywhere. The only thing I did find to my surprise was a bit of 
    	rust (or so I thought) on the counter weight of the crank shaft 
    	so I spoke to a few chaps and found that this is quite common 
    	on this component,something to do with the engine sweating,
    	beats me, I've never heard of that one ?  anyway back to the 
    	original problem, I cant see any sort of metal wear inside.
    	
    	I rekon the results from the lab will be my best bet !!
    
    			cheers 
    				steve...
    

    You have my attention. I would be very interested to learn the results
    of the lab test. Its not very often the modeler's have access to this
    type of data.
    Thanks
    

    First of all as you will gather later I am a novice where R/C is
    concerned.As I mentioned earlier in another note I bought a Hi-Boy
    trainer with everything I need for 50 pounds.Included in the package
    was an Irvin (sp?) engine.
     At the weekend I tried to get my R/C helicopter engine started for the
    first time with no success,but thats for another note if I still have
    problems.I thought I'd try to get the Irvin engine going first as a try
    out of the equipment,but I found that the prop is fery hard to turn
    with my hand let alone the starter which hardly turns it at all.
     As I said I'm a novice,and I assume that the prop should move more
    freely,so what can I do about it if anything?
    
    Tyrone
    

    Has no one any advice to help me with my previous not?
    
    Tyrone
    

Tough to diagnose without physically seeing the engine. If the engine had 
be run previously, it could be all gunked up inside, or rusty, or damaged. 
Take the glow plug out and put some alcohol in it to loosen any deposits 
and try turning it over with the plug removed. What you need to do is figure 
out where it's binding and why. Take off the backplate and inspect it in 
there. If the engine was kept in a damp place for any significant time 
without so oil put in it, it probably has some rust in it. It might not be 
salvagable in that case. If it was crashed, thr crankshaft might be bent or 
rubbing the backplate. you need to find someone local to give it a look.

    OK I will bite.
    
    Just a few pointers. And these depend on a lot of things, age, previous
    history etc which my be unknown. Yuur local local club should also have
    some eXperts to lend a hand.
    
    Anyway...
    
    It might be tight due to lack of use and having been stored away for a
    while and all it needs is a bit of lubrication, aka oil or fuel. Some
    engines are tight at the top. Remove the plug to oil in addition to
    putting some in the carb venturi. See what happens. Removing the plug
    should ease rotation of the crankshaft. Storage of engines incorrectly
    can allow them to get into a condition as you describe and the fuel/oil
    does the trick to free 'em up.
    
    Failing this...
    
    It might be a good idea to dismantle the engine and take a look at the
    crankshaft to see if it is damaged. Start by taking off the backplate.
    Check the casing for score marks where the shaft may have rubbed it or
    a visibly damaged crankshaft. If there are bearings check there
    condition. You can do this with the crankshaft in place by checking the
    play in the shaft along its axis. If loose you might consider replacing
    the bearings. Washing the engine in a tub of old fuel can clean up any
    grit or the like that may have lodged in the bearings. This happened to
    a friend recently. The carb had been tightened to much and a very small
    bit boke off, fell into the casing, got milled in flight and got stuck
    in the bearings. The engine would not turn. Cleaning it got it running
    again.
    
    
    I am more a 4-stroke man (Oopps, no pun guys) these days so someone
    might have the same engine and add something here !
    
    Eric.
    

    re .12 
    
    
    Looks like we concur !
    
    Alt-E.

Remember, even if you need to replace the engine, the rest of the stuff 
was probably worth it. A new engine might save you a lot of fiddling and 
get you into the air sooner. That's one of the things you need to look 
into.

    Thanks for the replies guys.It seems you were right,as I was a bit fed
    up because I couldn't get my Helo or Plane engine going,I left the fuel
    in it and when I turned the prop last night it was much easier.So with
    a bit of experiment I got it to run for a while,but I think there is a
    bit of old fuel left on parts of it because the throttle was stuck
    solid until it was oiled.
     So,now to get the Helo going.Any advice or pointers on keeping my
    engine in good condition,especially as the fuselage has not been built
    yet.
    
    Tyrone
    

    It's very important to run engines dry and add after run oil.  Failure
    to do so will result in a destroyed engine in short order if you use
    any nitro in your fuel.  Methanol is hydroscopic and nitro is very
    corrosive as is methanol.  Once the ball bearings get pitted they will
    trash themselves in short order.  Taking care of an engine is the only
    way to have trouble free flying.  If the bearings start sounding rough,
    replace them immediately before they cause further engine damage.  I've
    seen engines run until the bearings fell apart and trashed the
    crankcase.  The fit between the crankshaft and the case is tight
    because it provides intake valving action below the carb.  If the
    bearings go, then the crank wears the case and this seal is destroyed
    and the case is junk.  Then you replace the bearings and the engine
    runs like junk!
    
    Charlie