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Conference vmszoo::rc

Title:Welcome To The Radio Control Conference
Notice:dir's in 11, who's who in 4, sales in 6, auctions 19
Moderator:VMSSG::FRIEDRICHS
Created:Tue Jan 13 1987
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1706
Total number of notes:27193

1039.0. "What makes a good flying site?" by ABACUS::RYDER (Alton, who practices omphaloskepsis) Tue Jun 27 1989 05:34

    I've been looking into the use of sanitary landfills (We don't call
    them "dumps" anymore.) as flying sites.  I had been a landfill
    commissioner for five years, helping to manage one, so I understand
    most of the problems, advantages, concerns, and management attitudes.
    As flying sites become harder to keep and as landfills in New England
    close out operations, this possibility interests me. 
    
    Here in the Northeast, a closed landfill is a clear field with a grass
    cover that is mowed at least once per year to keep it clear of trees
    and large shrubs.  The contours are always gentle hills, with a top
    that is rather flat from the viewpoint of an Eastern modeler.  Because
    of groundwater concerns forever and unpleasantries when they were
    actively used, landfills are not considered desirable neighbors, so
    there are rarely houses nearby.  There are always good roads providing
    access.  They are usually owned by a municipality or a consortium of
    municipalities.  In my experience, a closed landfill does not smell
    like a dump.  They are OK. 
    
    They are not perfect.  You will not normally be able to drive right up
    to the runway (too much traffic would risk erosion). They are not mowed
    more than once per year because it isn't needed just for shrub control.
    There are no comfort facilities.  They have their own "trees" ---
    methane vents that stick up as ten foot poles in a hundred foot grid.
    Like other New England sites, they will be surrounded by real trees. 
    
    The authorities will be cautious.  Insurance coverage will be important
    (mostly because of the vents).  You will have to ensure that no one
    will ever damage a layer of plastic cap buried 2 feet under the grass.
    Access may be currently forbidden (to keep bikers off the slopes).  You
    will have to "hold harmless" the authorities in case of any injury to
    yourself, others, or the site, etc. 
    
    An active landfill is apt to have closed sections, but the presence of
    staff, users, haulers, trash, and sometimes seagulls introduces some
    other concerns.  If there is interest, I can go into these concerns at
    another time. 
    
    My landfill is about half closed, half active.  The largest closed area
    is a better flying site than one of the local club sites I use and
    comparable to another.  The potential runway area is about 450 feet by
    120 feet with grassy drop-offs all around. It could be available on
    Sundays and Mondays all day and after 5 most other days (I would not
    ask to use it when other people might be there).  For the next month or
    so, there is a solid 3.5 acres of black plastic in the center,
    surrounded by some sand and acres of greenery and below the potential
    flying field; that must be a thermal generator if I ever saw one!  The
    plastic is very thick (60 mils), but I would not fly powered planes
    near it for liability and relationship reasons.  It seems made-to-order
    for gliders despite the slight possibility of penetration in a mishap.
    In another month the plastic will be covered by a protective 18 inches
    of sand.  (This particular plastic will be underneath trash; another,
    thinner layer will eventually be over the trash.) 
    
    I just got permission to fly gliders at our landfill.  The thermal
    should be fierce!  But I don't yet have my glider ready.
    
Alton, who is solving a problem that he himself doesn't have.   Dumb.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name		DateLines
1039.1Some concernsWRASSE::FRIEDRICHSNever trust a premi!Tue Jun 27 1989 09:3126
    Al and I have talked about this before....
    
    I think that the biggest problem in using a landfill as a flying site
    are the methane vents..   Given that they are laid out in a 100 ft
    grid, the runway itself can be cut 90 ft wide, leaving some high grass
    protection from the stacks.  But how many people routinely miss the
    runway??  I think that the stacks may pose a substantial risk to
    our planes, and therefore it would not generally be considered a good
    flying site.
    
    My secondary concern is, can we guarantee that we would not puncture
    the upper layer of plastic??  Probably not...  Someone with a highstart
    stake or a pole for a baloon burst could compromise that layer fairly
    easily, and even worse, not even know it so that he could tell someone
    about it and have it fixed.
    
    If we can come up with creative ways around these problems, I believe
    that Landfills are an excellent option that should be pursued...
    
    FWIW - The Southern NH RC Club approached the Nashua, NH landfill.  
    They, however, are not very far from houses, etc and turned us down as 
    they were already getting noise complaints..
    
    cheers,
    jeff
1039.2this dump is a dumpLEDS::HUGHESDave Hughes (LEDS::HUGHES) NKS1-1/E3 291-7214Tue Jun 27 1989 15:5114
    I thought about this recently and decided to check out the old Hudson
    (Mass.) dump, which is actually just over the border in Berlin. It was
    closed several years ago. The road in was chained, so I walked in and up
    to the top. 

    Unfortunately, this landfill was not closed in the way Alton described.
    It was bumpy and clumpy, odd trash sticking out all over, and it stinks.
    There wasn't a flat spot wider than 50 feet. And there were neighbors
    nearby. I can't imagine why the neighbors haven't complained and gotten
    them to clean it up. Of course, there is a town well nearby.

    Anyway, scratch that potential flying site in Hudson.

    Dave
1039.3Waiting to be cappedAUGGIE::SEGOOLWed Jun 28 1989 09:1210
    
    re -
    
    The Berlin Dump is closed but it hasn't been capped yet. Hudson
    is in the process of capping it. I'm sure it will take a while before
    they would let anyone use it for anything. Besides, as you mention,
    it is rather close to some homes.
    
    Mike
1039.4won't be soonLEDS::HUGHESDave Hughes (LEDS::HUGHES) NKS1-1/E3 291-7214Mon Jul 10 1989 11:4412
re:                      <<< Note 1039.3 by AUGGIE::SEGOOL >>>
                           -< Waiting to be capped >-

    Don't hold your breath waiting - it's been several years (over 5,
    I'm sure) since the dump was closed. With tight budgets these days
    I doubt if Hudson will do anything that isn't ordered by a court.

    If and when done, it may make a good glider site but with houses
    in sight from the top of the pile, I imagine there would be instant
    neighbor troubles for noise.

    Dave
1039.5experiment results --- black holesABACUS::RYDERperpetually the bewildered beginnerMon Aug 07 1989 13:2023
    Kevin and Kay tried their gliders over the black plastic yesterday.
    
    Results:
    
    1.	I learned a lot more about glider flying (one of my objectives).
    
    2.	A landfill is potentially a good flying site, especially if
    	that use was planned when the site was designed.  This one wasn't,
    	and it isn't.  Maybe someday, but not today with other, better
    	sites readily available.
    
    3.	A large, black plastic sheet does not necessarily imply a good
    	source of glider lift.  Perhaps because:   the wind swept the
    	air away before it could get very hot?  the wind coming over
    	the surrounding trees and hills caused downdrafts and turbulence
    	to counter the thermal rising?  Sea gulls were soaring nearby,
    	but not over the plastic.  All flights were under 5 minutes.
    
    4.	The trail of the Hi-start should be mowed, not left as unmowed
    	clover/vetch/hay/weeds.  The fishing line part of the Hi-start
    	must be strong and free of knots.  More time was spent with
    	the Hi-start than in flying --- much, much more.
1039.6Columbia TN just did it!ABACUS::RYDERperpetually the bewildered beginnerTue Jan 09 1990 06:0612
    The possibility of closing a landfill in a manner suitable for model
    flying should not be overlooked.  Yesterday's R/C Report (the February
    '90 issue) on page 3 has an editorial on the Columbia, Tenn. flying
    club's field, built on an industrial landfill.
    
    However, as I mentioned (perhaps only in passing) earlier, the planning
    should happen years before the landfill is near to closing.  Here in
    New Hampshire you must submit the closing plan in order to get a permit
    to open a landfill.               ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    ^^^^^^^
    
    The Columbia club must have been lucky to pull it off in a short time.
1039.7Dump ready for reclamationSALEM::D_TAYLORMon Jan 15 1990 13:517
    HUdson NH is planning to close and cap teh landfill.  Maybe some
    discussions could be started. ( no i dont volunteer im a town
    councellor and i think that there is conflict of interest.)
    Dave
1039.8A new field in the making??WRASSE::FRIEDRICHSGo Bruins!!Tue May 15 1990 15:2946
    (I changed the title of the note so that general flying field design
    questions could be cover in this note....)
    
    How much land does it take to make a good field??
    
    I mean, if I know of a couple of hundred of acres of wooded land, and 
    I wanted to put a flying field in the middle of it, how many acres of 
    land should I plan on clearing to allow for reasonable approaches, 
    bailout areas, pits and runway??  (What is a Great/reasonable/minimum
    size for the box below??)
    
    
    |---------------------------------------------------------------------|
    |                                                                     |
    |                                                                     |
    |                         cleared land for approaches                 |
    |                         and bailouts                                |
    |                                                                     |
    |                                                                     |
    |                                                                     |
    |                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++                   |
    |                    +                            +                   |
    |                    +   runway                   +                   |
    |                    +                            +                   |
    |                    +                            +                   |
    |                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++                   |
    |                                                                     |
    |                                                                     |
    |                           |===============|                         |
    |                           |     Pits      |                         |
    |---------------------------|---------------|-------------------------|
    
    
    (Our local Fish and Game Club (which I am a member of) has this land.
    They are thinking of developing it into a competition skeet range, 
    which would be used perhaps 6-8 weekends a year.  The rest of the time
    would be open to flying.  All we have to do is to figure out how much
    room we need, factor that into their planning, and then help them build
    the area.  Clearly, usage is going to have to be carefully spelled
    out...)
    
    
    
    Thanks,
    jeff
1039.9SA1794::TENEROWICZTWed May 16 1990 07:507
    Jeff , I can only tell you abour field. The Pit/runway area is app.
    5 acres in size. The exterior field is 1000 x 1500 long. In addition
    there is another field to our north and another to the east that
    are of similar size. I'd guess we fly app. 3000 ft side to side
    and 2000 ft out.
    
    Tom
1039.10I'm Jealous!LEDS::COHENLook! I&#039;ve changed my P.N.Thu May 17 1990 14:1018
>    Jeff , I can only tell you abour field. The Pit/runway area is app.
>    5 acres in size. The exterior field is 1000 x 1500 long. In addition
>    there is another field to our north and another to the east that
>    are of similar size. I'd guess we fly app. 3000 ft side to side
>    and 2000 ft out.
    
    
    Tom,

    I don't get it.  An Acre is 4840 Sq. Yds.  or 43560 Sq Ft.  5 Acres is
    217800 Sq. Ft..  1000 X 1500 is 1.5 Million Sq. Ft., devided by the 43560
    Sq. Ft./Acre yeilds an impressive figure of 34.4 Acres !!  Your second
    statement implies you're flying in an area of 6 MILLION Square Feet, or
    a whopping 137 Acres!

    Is this really the size of your field?  Sheeshe!!  I bet we fly out of
    less than 10 Acres at the CMRCM field in Westboro (not including all the
    area to the left of center that's not really in the pattern).
1039.11SA1794::TENEROWICZTThu May 17 1990 15:0815
    I'll go over the field again.
    
    The moved area that contains the pits, flightline and runway is
    500ft long (north to south) and app.500 wide. This sits in the middle
    of a field that is owned by LEGO that is 1500 ft long (north to
    south) and 1500 ft wide. To the north of that is a second field
    owned by the state correctional facility that is of similar size
    to the lego field. To the east is also open area that is 1500 ft
    long and runs probably 3000 up a slight hill until you come to a
    road. Most of this land to the east is farmed with small crops.
    The only restricted areas are behind the flightline and to the south
    where the Lego factory is. Other than that it's open air.
    
    
    Tom