| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 626.1 | MY IDEAS | SALEM::COLBY | KEN | Tue Jul 26 1988 09:21 | 17 |
|
Glenn,
As you know, I am a Schluter buff. I have had good luck with them,
and there are alot of people flying Schluter around here. I know
of a couple of people with the .60 size X-cel and there have been
some problems with them, but I think that the problems have been
mainly taken care of by now. (These were early kits.) Probably
either the Scout Junior by Schluter or the .50 X-cel would be a
good choice in that size. The .60 might be a little better in more
wind, but as you know, a little more expensive.
________
/ __|__
=========[_____\
/ __|___|__/ BREAK A BLADE,
Ken
|
| 626.2 | | SPKALI::THOMAS | | Tue Jul 26 1988 09:53 | 32 |
|
Glenn, I own Schluter's also. I have in the part owned a shuttle,
Baron 30 MX,MiniBoy,and a Baron 28. Boy a tough question.
I think that if you buy any of the top ships out today,Excell 50
or 60, Junior 50,Scout 60,Champion your going to get what you want.
I have seen the Excell fly and it is a great chopper. I have seen
the Schluter (and have flown) and they are also great. It's up to
you but any of these will do the trick. One thing I have noticed
is that if your looking for the most aerobatic chopper then I'd
lean towards the EXcell 50 of the Scout 60. I think the Scout 60
is a little more aerobatic than the excell 60. I presently own a
Junior 50 and a Scout 60 that I fly. I also plan on getting an Excell
60. My plan is for AMA contests I'll probably use the excell 60.
I'll put a scale fuse on the junior mechanics and beat the shit
out of the Scout 60 for aerobatics.
I have deliberately left out GMP. I think that at one time they
had the superior ship. They were the first one to really make a
hot ship that the american publec liked and worked well. I do
however think that the present designs from other manufacturers
have jumped into the lead.
I'd like to look at a Legend from GMP. Court is still out on that
one.
Tom
P.S. I know that yoyu say that you will get only one chopper. Time
will tell but I think that you'll end up with more than one. I do
think that a smaller chopper would get you hovering better and into
forward flight sooner and cheaper that a bigger ship.
|
| 626.3 | Echo the previous | TWOMCH::IBBETT | Born to hover | Tue Jul 26 1988 12:07 | 22 |
| Echo the 2 previous replies. For what it's worth, the Larry Jolly
column in the latest AMA mag has a review of the XCELL 50. Jolly
rates it as one of the best manufactured and best flying copters
he has seen.
Either XCELL or Schluter are good, well-known brands. The XCELL
was designed and developed by Walt Schoonard (sp?) who used to be
the USA Schluter importer. Schluter was the original copter and
the company is always making improvements to their designs. Witness
the changes from the Mini/Heli-Boy through Heli-Star, Champion and
Scouts.
I agree with Tom (after having flown for a while) that more than
1 copter is real useful. I currently fly a Schluter Heli-Boy (.60
size ship) which I am learning on -- i.e. my "beater". I plan on
building a new ship over the winter, assuming my flying improves
enough by then. Current goal is a scale fused Airwolf with Champion
mechanics and all the bells and whistles (strobes, lights, retracts,
etc). I expect to fly the hell out of the 'beater' and take more
'care' of the new one :-)
Jimi.
|
| 626.4 | More Heli Stuff | AHAB::COZZENS | | Tue Jul 26 1988 13:52 | 20 |
|
OK - It looks like I'm down to either a Scout-60, Junior-50
X-Cell-60 or Xcell-50
are the 50 size machines the same as the 60 size ones
only smaller?
Do they all have the same Aerobatic capabilities?
If they all do I'm probobly down to Size preference,
financial preference, and whatever I like the looks of.
If anyone has more info on these machines please let
me know.
Thanks a Million
Glenn
What about the BARON 30MX???
|
| 626.5 | Don't count GMP out yet! | MDSUPT::EATON | Dan Eaton | Tue Jul 26 1988 14:32 | 13 |
| Whoa!
Hold them horses! Lets not count GMP out of the picture just yet.
As a Cobra owner (two of them beast) I have to say that they still
are very competitive machines. Old hat, you say. Maybe but parts
are widely available and if you want the newest fangled stuff you
can upgrade it to a Legend or just buy a Legend to start with.
I'm not a big fan of the GMP Stork but it is a very stable helicopter
It also impresses me that GMP managed not only to come out with a
new competition machine, the Legend, but while they were at it they
made it possible to upgrade the older machines.
Dan Eaton
|
| 626.6 | HI DAN | SALEM::COLBY | KEN | Tue Jul 26 1988 15:48 | 20 |
|
Dan,
I thought your chopper up and died. We haven't heard from you
for so long. In this part of the country (where Glenn, Jimi,
Tom, and I live) there are very few GMP products. I do like the
looks of the Legend, but I think that I want to hear more about
its performance and durability before I say too much about it.
I can't say the same for the Stork. A friend has one and he has
been trying to get tail rotor blade holders for it (from a crash)
for over a month. He gave up and is now trying to get them directly
from GMP.
Lets here more from you.
________
/ __|__
=========[_____\
/ __|___|__/ BREAK A BLADE,
Ken
|
| 626.7 | Busy but still kicking. | MDSUPT::EATON | Dan Eaton | Wed Jul 27 1988 13:09 | 52 |
| Regard:626.6
Hi Ken,
> Dan,
> I thought your chopper up and died. We haven't heard from you
> for so long. In this part of the country (where Glenn, Jimi,
> Tom, and I live) there are very few GMP products. I do like the
Nope, still alive and kicking. I haven't been able to do any flying (make
that anything at all) for the last three months because of studying for my
T8 board. That was last week but they liked me so well they want an encore
performance in October. I get to relax this week and go on vactaion Saturday
for the next two weeks. Then it s back to the books.
> Lets here more from you.
Well, after vacation and before I hit the books again I promise I'll provide
an update on the following.
A. I modified my Cobra to use a Delta-3 hinge on the rotorhead per the artical
in the latest issue of RHC or International Heli or whatever its called.
I'm going to try it out while on vacation and see if it makes a difference.
B. My 1/6 Kiowa project. It actually looks like a helicopter now.
C. The results from the St. Louis Whirlybirds fun-fly coming up on August 13th
and 14th.
D. My friend Cam has built a training stand much like the one you see advertised
these days. Cam's is a good deal bigger though. I'm looking forward to trying
it out.
E. I built my own muffler this past week and I'm going to stick it on the Cobra.
/ \ /
Dan Eaton - Demented / / \
Dragonfly / #
Pilot / #
/ #
\ #
//@@@ #
/ l @## .
/ #@ .
/ .
@ / \.
_/\
/\_
l
|
| 626.8 | | SPKALI::THOMAS | | Wed Jul 27 1988 13:33 | 23 |
| Glenn,
The Excell 50 and 60 are made from the same mold. The mechanics
are identicle except for added ball bearings in the 60 and a longer
boom and main rotor blades. The Schulter is different. The swashplate
head and rolling servo arangement are the same on the Junior and
the Scout but the mainframes are different. What they did was use
the frames from the Miniboy as the basis for the Junior and incorporate
the new cyclic/collective arangement. The result being the Junior.
For the Scout the started with the Champion frames then modified
them to meet the new design and incorperated the new cyclic/collective
arangement. I think that you'll find that prices are quite different.
The Junior ca be had for 340.00 and the scout for 500.00. The 50
Excell is about 470.00 and the 60 Excell is 500.00
In my opinion the best buy for your money in 50 sized choppers these
days is the Junior.
All of the 60 sized birds are about the same price.
Glenn you understand that your question does also apply to Radios
and gyros............ But then that for a later discussion.
Tom
|
| 626.9 | More Questions | AHAB::COZZENS | | Thu Jul 28 1988 10:31 | 17 |
|
Tom,
Thanks for your input on the choppers. One more question
are the Xcell 50 and Junior about the same as far as stability
and aerobatic capability?
As far as radio equipment, I already have a Centry 7
PCM Heli radio with 501 servos. I also have a KO Gyro, a 1200
ma battery, and all the starting equipment I will need, The
only other things I will need are pitch gauges etc.
What engine do you suggest, I was thinking either
OS 50FSR-H or an Enya 50H.
Glenn
|
| 626.10 | | SPKALI::THOMAS | | Thu Jul 28 1988 11:09 | 30 |
|
As far as engine choise either of the two you highlighted are great
choises. The OS having more of a reputation being in the market
place longer. But then the new enya 50 is supposed to be a powerhouse.
If it is anything like the 60XFIII then it will be great. I'm running
an 60 XF III in my Scout 60 and love it. An observation is that
at the chopper fly in we had most on the scoots were being powered
by 60 OS long strokes and the owners had to install champion tail
boom supports to keep the tank from foaming. Now I'm talking the
60 sized scoot now not the Junior. I have been running the std.
fiberglass tube boom support that comes in the kit of the scoot
60 and have seen no foaming with the enya.
An far as the aerobatic qualities of the Excell 50 and the Junior
50 I'd have to say the the Excell 50 rolls better than the junior.
However the Hotdog flying in my club who flyes an Excell 60 has
just purchased a Junior becaume he lover how it flies. He flew
another pilots junior quite a bit earlier in the year. One advantage
to getting the Excell 50 is that you could put a 60 in it at a later
time. However you would also have to buy about 80.00 in bearings
to make it identical to the kitted Excell 60. It's a funny paradox.
Years ago chopper pilots would have killed for such an opertunity.
No matter which one you choose you will get a great chopper that
is well supported.
Tom
P.S. I'd suggest that you buy an Excell started shaft for your electric
starter. It's the best I have seen. Also save yourself some greif
and buy a Dynatron started from Sullivan.
|
| 626.11 | is this right | AHAB::COZZENS | | Thu Jul 28 1988 14:02 | 13 |
|
Tom,
I guess it looks like I'll go with the Xcell., but
are you saying the main structure of the x_cell 50 is the same
size as the Xcell 60. So longer blades, longer boom, and a 60
size engine on the 50 and I have a Xcell 60.
Why so much more money then, in fact why have
the xcell 50 at all.
Glenn
|
| 626.12 | BEARINGS COST | SALEM::COLBY | KEN | Thu Jul 28 1988 14:59 | 12 |
|
Glenn,
The reason for the much higher price for the 60 vs the 50 is the
fact that the 60 has several more bearings. I believe Tom said
that the bearing upgrade alone is about $80.
________
/ __|__
=========[_____\>
/ __|___|__/ BREAK A BLADE,
Ken
|
| 626.13 | Final Decision | SEDJAR::COZZENS | | Thu Jul 28 1988 17:14 | 11 |
|
OK - HERE'S THE FINAL DECISION!!!!!
After talking to you all and calling various places I've
decided to go with the JUNIOR 50 and an ENYA 50SSH engine.
What do you all think of my decision? Anyone know where the
cheapest is I can get it?
Glenn
|
| 626.14 | A COUPLE OF SUGGESTIONS | SALEM::COLBY | KEN | Fri Jul 29 1988 09:52 | 16 |
|
Glenn,
My experience has been that currently the lowest price can be had
at Helicopters Unlimited in Cheshire, Conn. However, if you check
the ads in RCM or some other mag that has many commercials, you
may find a better price. I usually look at 3-4 different models
to see if the general price range is less, if they don't list the
price for just what I want. You could also probably get the best
price by getting a combo chopper and engine, if you can find what
you want in an advertised combo.
________
/ __|__
=========[_____\>
/ __|___|__/ BREAK A BLADE,
Ken
|
| 626.15 | I'm back! | MDSUPT::EATON | Dan Eaton | Fri Aug 19 1988 04:55 | 132 |
| RE: 626.7
Well, I'm back sort of. Actually I got back Monday but was immediatly banished
to a customer site. It's now 2:00 AM and I'm on my second night of 24x7 (2
shifts, I've got 8 PM to 8 AM) computer babysitting. What fun! 8^)
>Well, after vacation and before I hit the books again I promise I'll provide
>an update on the following.
>A. I modified my Cobra to use a Delta-3 hinge on the rotorhead per the artical
> in the latest issue of RHC or International Heli or whatever its called.
> I'm going to try it out while on vacation and see if it makes a difference.
If it makes a difference, I can't tell. I did get a chance to talk to Robert
Gorham (sp) about it and he thinks that any positive effect would be over
shadowed by the Bell - Hiller mixing on the flybar.
>B. My 1/6 Kiowa project. It actually looks like a helicopter now.
The fuselage is almost ready for sanding. I have some more work to do on the
nose and tail cone before I sand every thing down. I have the bottom chin
windows made but the main windows are going to be interesting to make.
I've installed and glassed the runners that the mechanics sit on and the tail
drive support is in place. To maintain the scale relationship between the rotor
blades and the fuselage I need a longer main shaft. I'm going to take a look at
one of those long balencing shafts for a high point and see if I can machine it
for what I need. Current weight of the fuselage without mechanics is 2 pounds.
>C. The results from the St. Louis Whirlybirds fun-fly coming up on August 13th
and 14th.
It was pretty good. We had about thirty machines show up with their owners. High
point for me was having Robert Gorham there. He had a Legend and one of those
Futaba 1024 radios. The man is just not human! I saw him compete at the 87 Nats
but it wasn't anything like him just having fun putting on exhibition flights.
He put on a fantasic flight flying right side up and forward and then topped it
off by flying the pattern again only with the chopper upside down and flying
tail first.
I ran the Novice competition Saturday. We had seven entries but only four flew.
The events were Pad Hopper, bottel knockdown, and vertical limbo (24inches
wider than the rotor span). I enjoyed running the thing and it was made even
more enjoyable due to the fact that no one cracked up their machine.
One of the local traffic copters made an appearence about mid day. The guy who
flys it has a reputation for being a good pilot dispite the fact he's crazy. He
flew observation copters in Nam, what more can I say. He put a little airshow on
for us when he left with the Enstrom. He did a couple of stall turns, and then
left after a high speed pass over the field at about 3 feet.
I decided that I'd better put in a check flight on my copter to make sure it
survived the trip back from Michigan. Good thing I did because I found that
I couldn't hold the tail still for nothing. Everytime I'd lift off the tail
would swing counter clockwise. I tried all sorts of stuff and then asked Robert
Gorham to look at it. Turned out there was a build up of crud on the inner
surface of the swash plate bearing. I packed up and head home to get things
cleaned up.
Sunday morning rolled in and I discovered 15 minutes before I was suppose to
compete in the intermediate class that my gyro had died. I turned it off and
flew without it. The events for Intermediate were Vertical limbo (16 inches
wider that rotor span) , bottle knockdown, and Loop pickup. I aced the Limbo,
and did ok in the knockdown. The loop pickup though was just too hard without
the help of the gyro, I managed to pick up a loop but I bounced off the ground
twice in doing it for a total score of zero.
About mid-day, St. Louis Helicopter Airways brought in a Long Ranger. I got
some good pictures to help with cockpit detail on the Kiowa. They also put on a
small airshow when they left but their high speed pass was 30 feet up.
After that the Expert compettion got under way. The events were same as the
Intermidiate (limbo was eight inches greater than roter span) plus the water
torture. The water torture was to take off and pick up a three inch ring held up
by a stand. The ring was attached to a piece of twine with a bucket tied to the
end. You flew with the bucket over to a wading pool and dipped the bucket into
the pool. Now you fly the full bucket of water over to a designated place and
dump it out, drop the ring, and return to the start. That all had to be done in
five minutes max. Most succesful people did it in about four minutes. Gorham
took a whole minute! He is human though, during the ring pick up event, I saw
him miss a ring twice. 8^) He came in second by the way.
My friend Cam decided to take advantage of Robert being there and get his Hirobo
Agusta 109 first flight in. Bob was agreeable and set the copter up.
Unfortunately, when we went to start up the start cone started slipping. There
wasn't a way to get to the set screw on the cone without stripping the mechanics
out so the Agusta is still waiting to fly.
We ended up the Fun fly with the prize raffle. Robert had brought along three
GMP gyros (of course you know I was doomed not to get one!), some Vidio tapes,
and a bunch of other goodies. Other prizes worth noting were a EXCEL tool kit,
and Airtronix (sp) transmitter carrier case, and serveral fancy starters. I
ended up with a GMP base loaded antenna, GMP ball link pliers, and a half gallon
of Red Max Heli fuel.
Watching Robert pack up the Legend was interresting. The rotor blades and tail
boom go into a mailing tube. The rest of it gets broken down untill it fits in
one of those small suitcases about the size of a brief case but thicker. He said
he gets some interesting questions going thru airport security sometimes.
>D. My friend Cam has built a training stand much like the one you see
advertised these days. Cam's is a good deal bigger though. I'm looking
forward to trying it out.
Cam had it at the fun fly and I put my Cobra on it. It's better than bashing
your machine and it would give a beginner a chance to learn how to control the
copter. I didn't really care for it though. I didn't like the lack of feedback
you got with the copter on the stand.
>E. I built my own muffler this past week and I'm going to stick it on the Cobra.
The muffler works. I haven't had a chance to get exact figures on it but it
does sound quieter and doesn't seem to effect the motor.
/ \ /
Dan Eaton - Demented / / \
Dragonfly / #
Pilot / #
/ #
\ #
//@@@ #
/ l @## .
/ #@ .
/ .
@ / \.
_/\
/\_
l
|
| 626.16 | Helicopter Choice Help request | GRAPES::COZZENS | | Wed May 15 1991 15:23 | 29 |
|
I'm thinking of getting into RC Helicopters. I fly planes now,
and know that means nothing.... I've limited my choice down to the
following choppers, and would like some advice from some
experienced pilots...I want one which is very stable, for
beginning, yet will do all the tricks in the book, when I advance.
I also want to keep it small...
Here's the list... Please help out.. Pros/Cons of each.
Shuttle ZX
Concept SX
XCELL .40
I don't want to have to add anything to it...
I already have a Centry 7 PCM Heli radio - w - Gyro, and 1200 MHA
pack.
Thanks
Glenn Cozzens
Salem::cozzens
DTN 285-2679
|
| 626.17 | | SA1794::TENEROWICZT | | Wed May 15 1991 15:29 | 14 |
| Glenn,
I'd choose one that isn't on your list. The new Baron Enforcer.
It was designed by the same gentleman that designed the Concept but
after the concept was in production. Items are delt with in similar
fashions but I think better. The one's I've seem are a durable as the
concept and hover as smoothly as a concept but are as manuaverable in
flight as the shuttle.
I'd stay away from the excel 40 as it's not as durable as a
learners chopper needs to be.
Tom
|
| 626.18 | Some thoughts on Shuttle ZX & Concept SX & XCELL .40 | STOHUB::JETRGR::EATON | Dan Eaton St.Louis,MO,USA, 445-6522 | Thu May 16 1991 13:45 | 45 |
| Glenn,
Here's what I think, for what it's worth.
Shuttle ZX
I haven't flown one or seen one fly. I have heard people talk about it and
they seem to like it better than the Concept for hot dog flying.
Concept SX
I have a Concept DX. It is extremely stable and makes a great beginner's ship.
The Concept SX is tuned to be more for the hot dog flyer, a little less stable,
a bit more responsive. Things like the flybar paddles make a big difference in
the type of performance you get. Buy the Concept SX and use the heavy metal
paddles used on the Concept DX to tone it down for a beginner. Personally, I
think your better off worrying about how stable a ship is for a beginner than
how capable it is for the more advanced. It may take you weeks/months/years
before you reach the point where your not happy with the roll response on the
Concept. 8^)
XCELL .40
Nice ship from what I've seen. I don't think its as stable as the Concept but I
haven't actually got to fly one. I agree with Tom T. about it being a little
more complicated than what you want.
I think Ralph Walker ownes both a Shuttle ZX and a XCELL .40 so you might want
to send him mail and get his opinion. I think he's at least hovered a Concept
so he'd probably be able to put a better spin on this than the rest of us.
/ \ /
Dan Eaton - Demented / / \
Dragonfly / #
Pilot / #
/ #
\ #
//@@@ #
/ l @## .
/ #@ .
/ .
@ / \.
_/\
/\_
l
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| 626.19 | Kalt eh??? | GRAPES::COZZENS | | Thu May 16 1991 15:53 | 14 |
|
As far as the Kalt Enforcer... I read some articals on
it, and it said that there was a clutch problem with it.
Is that still true, or has it been fixed?
Also, I thought parts, and cost of parts were better on say a
shuttle ZX, over a Kalt. Maybe I'm not correct, where can I locally
buy Kalt Enforcer parts? I live in southern NH.
Is the Kalt as aerobatic as a ZX???
Glenn
|
| 626.20 | | SA1794::TENEROWICZT | | Thu May 16 1991 15:57 | 11 |
|
Yes, the enforcer has had clutch problems. As had the concept and
the shuttle, although the shuttles problem was with the open bearing
above the clutch. All enforcers are now being shipped with a new all
metal clutch set-up. I't quality is better than any after market
clutch I've seen to date or any 60 sized chopper I've ever seen. If
you have one of the original enforcers Hobby Dynamics will sent you the
improver all metal clutch FREE!!!
Tom
|
| 626.21 | My opinion - FWIW | BSS::WALKER | Ralph Walker CSCs dtn=592-5701 | Fri May 17 1991 20:24 | 53 |
| Like Dan, I will provide my opinion on the machines mentioned in the
previous responses. To put these comments in context I'll say my flying
skill is beginning beginer intermediate - I can hover good and get into
forward flight.
Kalt -
I don't have any experience with Kalts, a guy out here flies two of
the 20/30 size Kalt machines. Both are loaded with TSK upgrade
parts and the fly well.
Shuttle -
I own two shuttles one is a ZX and it is a great flier and was
right out of the box. The second I call my ORIGZX it is made up of
bits and pieces of a original BLUE Shuttle and bits and pieces of a
ZX that I bought from someone who destroyed it. BTW I have a OS 46
in this one and hope to see it fly this weekend. The Shuttle ZX
has taken over as the 30 Helicopter of choice with the chopper
crowd that I fly with. We have 9 ZXs flying here and skills range
from just learning to hover to very areobatic competent fliers.
Concept -
The local hobby shop has sold about 15 Concepts mostly being DX
models. Several of these guys never show up any more and we think
they it is because they cannot afford the repair cost. It appeared
to us(the Colorado fliers) the Concept was very fragile. I know
this viewpoint is not shared everywhere but that how the Concepts
are view with the crowd out here. The guys who stuck with the
hobby upgraded to SXs fairly soon. I have hovered both the DX & SX
while helping guys trimming out their ships and like the SX over
the DX.
X-CELL -
I am very partial to the X-CELL machines as my first chopper was a
X-CELL 60. I have the X-CELL 40 and it currently has a ST 34G engine
installed, so now it is a X-CELL 30. In this configuration the X-
Cell is amazing to me, I was expecting that it would not get off
the ground at this altitude. Much to my surprise it flys great and
I think it is more stable, although less powerful, than both the
Concept and Shuttle especially in the wind(which never quits here).
With the prices as they are, Shuttle ZX w/Enya 35 is $499, Concept
SX w/engine $409 + engine $110, and X-Cell 40 $360 w/engine +
$110 - $140 depending on a 30 or 40 size I think the X=Cell 40 with
a 30 engine would be a great first machine then upgrading to a 40
engine when ready to do the areobatic.
|
| 626.22 | Mind the right procedure | ZURFCC::MUELLERA | | Wed May 22 1991 11:14 | 9 |
| Hi,
please read my note under 1092.4. And afterwards buy a Concept 30 SX
and have fun. In between I wrecked a AVANTGARDE (robbe) with a
HEIM-mechanic (it was the 8. flight). Meanwhile my Concept has made
numerous flights (even minor crashes) without damage. I'me very fond of
that little machine.
regard,
Alfons
|