Conference vmszoo::rc

        Re:< Note 494.0 by KYOA::GAROZZO >

        Bob,
        
                If your  problem  is  stuffing planes into trees the last
        thing you want  to  buy  is  an  ARF.    ARFs  are  difficult  or
        impossible to repair.  What  you  need  an instructor and a plane
        that keeps you out of trees.
        
        Anker

    I have a Flitecraft Solo which is the ARF trainer you might be 
    thinking of.I taught myself how to fly with this and needless to
    say I had my share of not quite 3-point landings!I have spun in
    out of control,flew into a 100 ft. tall tree at about the 75 ft
    mark at full tilt(bad depth perception on my part)and then fell
    to the ground,and had to shake it out of another small tree.
       In all that abuse the only things broken were the prop and the
    horizontal stab,both of which I had extra's of,so I was back in
    the air in 10 minutes.The fuse of the Solo is made out of the
    kind of plastic used in consturction hard hats(I think)and the
    wings and stabs are foam covered with plastic-sheeting.The recommended
    engine is a .35,but I have an O.S. .25 in mine and that is plenty
    of power,so a .35 should be real exciting.
    
      I personally would not have switched to planes from cars if 
    ARF's were not on the market.I have absolutly no talent at building
    wooden planes and repairing them makes me break out in a cold sweat!
    I really admire you guys out there who can make sense out of a few
    sheets of balsa and plans,and maybe someday I'll give it a try,but
    until I do,it's plastic and foam for me!
    
    						Kevin

    
    	As Kevin has indicated one weak stop on this ship is the stabs.
    They are made from a piece of foam sheet with a thin layer of plastic
    film type material on the tops and bottoms. If purchased I would
    substitute the original stabs (both vertical and horizontal) with
    a balsa stab of similar shape and size. This also includes the rudder
    and elevator. Other than that the ship appears to be rugged. Also
    something like a Box fly type of ship might be good. With a moderate
    engine and limited control throws it should be manageable for the
    beginner. Royal makes a fine one, at a reasonable price. If you
    do have building time you could opt for a semi built wood.foam
    structure.Jonny Casburne has a few trainer types that are foam winged
    covered with balsa and a wood fuse. These need about 8 hrs of final
    assembly and then covering. I still lean to the balsa or balsa foam
    ships. From a repair standpoint they do seem to be easier and less
    expensive.
    
    							Tom

    	I have a flightcraft Arrow II which gave me good service two
    years ago.  It fies ok, but it is heavy.  Plastic fuse and foam
    wing combine to make the plane overweight, but it does fly well
    in a strong wind.  I would not recommend this plane for a beginner,
    but it is a reasonable first low wing plane.  I needed all of the
    power of an OS 40FSR to get it flying in hot, humid weather.  I
    have not seen a good ARF primary trainer that I could recommend.
    The best trainer should be slow, light, and predictable, not
    indestructable.  If you have a good instructor and avoid trying
    to fly by yourself until you're ready, you should not crash often.
    Most well designed trainers will withstand the bad landing type
    of crash with minimal or no damage.
    
    Charlie
    

    My younger brother has a Cardinal and personally, I don't like it.
    As was mentioned, it is heavy and the tail section is a piece of
    caca!  He replaced the tail section soon after he got it, due to
    a nose over which bent the vertical stab.  Soon after it was nosed
    into the ground which wiped out the firewall.  He is now flying
    my Eaglet 50 (which is what I would recommend).  Balsa is much easier
    to repair than plastic.  By the way, you can order a fuse from
    Tower for around  $19.00.
    
    Ken

    I'm hoping to re-activate this discussion of ARF's because I need
    some quick advice.  Sunday, my son was flying our EZ BoxFly 40 with
    an OS .45.  He likes to fly it wide open, and coming out of a turn
    the wings tore off the body and will the two wing panels fluttered
    down, the body with the .45 wide open accelerated into a dive and
    buried itself into the ground up to the main landing gear.
    
    After this disaster, I noticed that elsewhere in these notes someone
    suggested fiberglassing the two wing panels together--in hindsight
    not a bad idea. By the way, about the only salvageable part of the
    BoxFly 40 was the spinner; body split in half, motor casing broke
    around the muffler, but the EZ spinner is in fine shape. I know
    a few months back someone was looking to buy an EZ spinner (the
    one with two screws holding on the spinner so you can use a regular
    nut for the propeller)--bids are now open for this quality spinner!
    
    Seriously, I need ideas on what to replace the BoxFly40 with.  My
    requirements are that it use a 40/45 size engine, be a high wing
    or better yet sholder wing, and have sym. wings for good wind
    penetration and beginner stunts.  While the BoxFly40 was a good
    ARF, if I now must buy a new one I'd like to try something different.
    In RCM I've seen the ads for the EZ Sportsman45 that comes in a
    shoulder wing version.  Royal has a Royal-air Shoulder wing ARF.
    Anyone have any experience with either or some better alternative?
    
    The BoxFly40 did fly well although I would not recommend it as a
    first plane. It is pretty heavy, has symmetical wings, and with
    the controls set at the recommended settings it was Very responsive.
    
      Sam
    

        Re:< Note 494.6 by RDVAX::FULLER "Sam Fuller" >

        Sam,
        
                I suggest calling up EZ to see whether they'll be willing
        to replace the plane.  If you have followed their instructions to
        the letter the plane  shouldn't  break  the  wings  in a turn.  I
        could understand a dive with a violent pullout, but not a turn.
        
        Anker

>                I suggest calling up EZ to see whether they'll be willing
>        to replace the plane.  If you have followed their instructions to
>        the letter the plane  shouldn't  break  the  wings  in a turn.  I
>        could understand a dive with a violent pullout, but not a turn.

What about several dives and violent maneuvers one day followed some hard
landings the next day followed by a turn with buffeting winds the next day?

P.S.  Don't throw the box away!

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    Try looking into the Sr FALCON by Carl Goldberg.. it should be a
    good replacement. Also consider the Anniversary Edition PIPER CUB
    (Clipped wing version) from the same company.
    
    Both are kits, so this may not be what you are looking for. But
    they do fly well.
    
    
    (I just remembered CG also make a CHIPMUNK ARF and has a new thing
    call the VECTOR. The only think you have to do to this on is cover
    it)
    
    md..

    Re:, .-1, Marc,
    
    While I agree with your statement that the Goldberg Sr. Falcon is
    a fine flier and a great basic-to-intermediate ship, I believe it
    is a little large for the .40-.45 engine range.  Were a person to
    want to build a balsa airplane (rather than an ARF) of the FAlcon
    ilk, I'd suggest/recommend the Falcon .56 for the .40-.45 engine.
    
    Also, the new Golberg Chipmunk is not an ARF and I would think is
    a bit of a handful for a fledgling, even one with some amount of
    experience.   

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    The story you told of wings floating one way and fuse diving groundward
    another sounds like a duplicate of my first flight on ARF Solo I.
    I finished rebuilding last night but my crash was not as hard on
    the fuse as yours. I filled the provided plastic spar with 1/4"
    dowel and epoxy and drilled two additional spars into the foam core.
    I thinned some epoxy with acetone and wrapped a 6" glass around
    the joint then used the junk FlightCraft provided just as a KICKER.
    No more flimsey tailfeathers to worry about. I made my own replacements
    from balsa and monocoat. This only took a few hours and seems to
    be infinitly stronger.
    
    The bottom line is - Take the time and build a good kit. I suggest
    a Sig Kadet or similar or a Carl Goldberg Eagle or a Great Planes
    PT 40. Not only will you be able to repair what breaks but it will
    fly better overall.
    
    
    

    Check out Tower Hobbies line of Scorpio ARF's...
    They're sheeted wings with traditional balsa/ply fuse's.
    Should eliminate the "plastic plane" problems.  I have never seen
    one live, so I can't speak to actual quality, but they look like
    they are OK.
    
                             |                      
   \	       	         ____|____                      /   Regards,
    \________________________O_________________________/    Frank.
    

    re .-3 & FALCON: Oooops. Sorry, I really meant the 56 (thats the
    biggest one on the lot).
    
    md

    If you get another ARF, make sure that the wing is strong enough
    to take training abuse.  Glass the center section even if the kit
    doesn't say to.  This really adds alot of strength to the wing and
    distrubutes the load over more area.  I don't know of any good ARF
    trainers.  They are generally hard to repair and heavy.  People
    are always asking me how they can get in the air quick.  I guess
    they think planes should be like cars - already mostly built.
    The most successful students at our field have learned on good
    trainers built from a kit.  The ones with ARF's have generally
    just had problems.
    
    Charlie
    

    
    	Does anyone have experience with a 60-90 low wing plane called the
    Cheetah. It is a ARF with foam wings covered with a balsa skin and
    already covered. It is fron Camden (sp?) Models and is usually
    advertised with another of their models called the Bulldog. I am
    interested in flying characteristics and quality of manufacturing.
    
    Regards,
    Bob G