Conference vmszoo::rc

    I just placed a fairly large order with Tower and I did not experience
    these problems at all.  Every plane related item I ordered was in
    stock and I had no problems ordering it.  I did try to order a couple
    of car things for a guy I work with, and they were both out of stock.
    I guess tower is not handling the surge in car business along with
    the difficulty of getting popular stuff from Japan.  In the past
    three years of ordering things from Tower, I have only had one screwed
    up order, and they promptly straightened it out for me.
    
    Charlie
    

    
    Mrs. Santa ordered me a MRC Hornet with radio, battery packs, nicads,
    charger, etc. The only thing they didn't have was the car. But I
    got it via UPS the next week.
    Just for the record, though, is there any other mail order house
    that stocks this kind of rc equipment or does Tower have the monopoly?
    
    New_to_this_game,
    
    Mike
    
   

    I've ordered from Tower since they began in the early 70's.  I've
    ordered small parts, airplane kits, RC cars, engines, and radios.
    I have never had anything lost or damaged.  I had one item on backorder
    for sometime, but can't recall what it was.  Typical shipment from
    order time is 4-5 days for me.  

For stuff from MRC (e.g. Tamiya) you can try calling them direct.  They have
told me they will sell me parts (at least) directly.

(201) 985-7800

Marty

    Like others, I've only had occasion to order aircraft related items
    but I've had nothing but the most excellent luck with Tower Hobbies;
    I've seldom [if ever] had anything back-ordered, delivery has been
    very prompt and on the one occasion where an item was defective,
    they corrected the problem quickly and to my satisfaction.
    
    I can't speak to cars, boats and related items, but I've enjoyed
    "MANY" years of more than satisfactory service from Tower.   
    
    Adios,	Al

    In the five or so years I've done business with tower I'll
    have to say it been six of one and half a dozen of the other,
    I've received as many orders on time as I have had to wait for.
    I will say this though, when the do have what I want, its
    delivered pretty quick. Another company I've used with relitivly
    good success is sheldons hobby in california.
              
                             

    At least you know where you stand on back orders when you call to
    place your order.  They always have what they say is in stock. 
    I hate it when mail order people don't tell you when something is
    out of stock until you get your partial order.  Price wise, they
    sell stuff cheaper than the local hobby dealer's cost on many popular
    items.  This really upsets the dealers especially on items like
    OS engines and Great Planes kits.
    

    Well, I found the Clod Buster in stock at McManus Hobbies in Fitchburg,
    it cost a bit more, but I had a guaranteed delivery date. 1/2 :+)
    Everything considered I'll probably get the radio from McManus, and all
    my spare parts, and new radio crystals, and additional servos, and
    bearings and shocks and new motors and parts for the phase II vehicle
    and....  I just object to the impression I get from Tower: "We are
    Tower, the biggest mail order hobby dealer around, the exclusive
    importer of Kyosho, and so powerful we don't have to care!" [Just one
    person's opinion, mind you.] 
    
    Willie

Willie - calm down.

>< Note 434.0 by SNDBOX::SMITH "William P.N. (WOOKIE::) Smith" >
>                           -< Tower stocks nothing! >-

I think your title is more than a little unfair.  January is after all
just after Christmas and I know for a fact that Tower was really busting
their chops during December trying to keep up with demand.

>
>    Anyone know of any decent mail_order places from which you can get
>    decent delivery times and straight answers to your questions?  I

I read your whole note and tho you were disappointed in the answers they
seemed to be straight answers to me.

>    called Tower Hobbies a couple of weeks ago to find out about the
>    MRC Clod Buster and was told that:
>    
>    	1)	It was $227.
    	2)	They had no other info in it.
>    	3)	They wouldn't have any info until the 15th.
>    	4)	I couldn't order one without part numbers and such.

Some other mail order firms would have taken your visa number and charged
you $227 on the spot and promised it real soon now.

>    
>    I just called them again this morning and was told that:
>    
>    	1)	The part number was (mumble)

Ah - so they did have more information on it on the 15th just as promised.

>    	2)	They won't be available until the middle of January.
>    		[When I pointed out that some would say we are in the
>    		middle of January, I was told that they consider the
>    		middle of January to be around the 20th or the 28th.]

Ever here DEC say we'll ship something in Q2 (we mean the last day of Q2).

>    	3)	The backorder list for that vehicle is already over
>    		one thousand names in length!!!!

OK - so.

>    	4)	They don't know how many they are getting, when they
>    		are coming in, when the next order is coming, how many
>    		will be in that order, or anything else.  Essentially
>    		I can be put at the end of the list and when my name
>    		comes up, they will send me one.  They have no idea
>    		what month that might be in, but it sounds like January
>    		is out and February is only a maybe.

Sounds like they are doing you a favor and warning you of a possible high
volume problem over which they have little control (tho I suspect if you got
on the list even tho you may be number 1001 that you would receive it by Early
Feb).

>    	5)	There is no such thing as a Futaba 7 channel radio
>    		for ground use, though if I bought an aircraft radio
>    		I could probably get Futaba to retune it from 72 to
>    		75 MHz for around $40.  [I thought the Futaba G series
>    		had plug-in transmitter modules????].

Tower is right.  You are right also.  If you buy the Transmitter module and
the receiver Xtal - you should have the receiver tuned to match.  If it was
a plane you should tune it.  Since it is for a car - I would just try it
because if the receiver is off a tad it would not be fatal.  Now - how do
you get the module (the easy way is to send it in for the $40 replacement
and tuning).  Futaba policy - not Tower.

>    	6)	All of the other things I was trying to order were out
>    		of stock, and there were no expected delivery dates.

We don't know what you ordered - but again they have an excellent inventory
control system and you should be glad that they are able to tell you on the
phone rather than take your money and have you wait.

>    	7)	They did have the Exacto knife blades I wanted {whoopee!}.
>    
>    Anyway, I am, to put it mildly, not too thrilled with Tower.  Are
>    there other mail order places that have stuff in stock more often
>    than Tower?  Is it possible to order stuff directly from the

No.

>    manufacturer and get better delivery times and/or exactly the product
>    you want?  I can always put on my OEM hat and call the manufacturer,
>    but will that do me any good?  Many thanks in advance for any hints

No.

>    or leads to hobby places with better stock!!!!
>    
>    Willie

If you send me $400 cash I will get you the car real soon.
My prices are a little high - but so are my promises.
Oh yes - don't forget to include 5 percent Mass tax and $10 for
shipping and handling.  All sales are final and there are no refunds
on Radio Controlled equipment because I can't control the quality of
your assembly or the skill with which you operate the car.

              _!_      
Bye        ----O----   
Kay R. Fisher / \     

================================================================================

Willie - don't flame me :-)

  Well maybe it isn't such a bad thing to have someone get what they
perceive is unsatisfactory results from a mail order hobby shop.  Like
Willie many go to the local shop and pay a little more and get what 
they want when they want it (usually anyhow).  This certainly doesn't
hurt the local shop who looses a great deal of business to these mail
order shops.  Personally I can't afford NOT to use the mail order shops,
but I want the local shop there when I need them.  If I had more money 
to spend I would use the local shops more.

  BTW - I have had very good luck with Tower, Hobby Lobby and Hobby Shack.


  Jim

	For my money, therefore mine to spend:

	I have had both good and bad experiences with quite a few
	of the mail order houses.  What is important to me, John Q.
	Customer, is that a business will stand behind their product
	and service.  I have always felt that both mail order and the
	local hobby dealer share the market in different ways.  For
	me, mail order is THE vehicle for larger orders when time is
	not important and money is.  They almost always have the lowest
	price and almost always charge something for shipping.  In
	fairness, if they do back order something because they are out
	of stock, then I expect them to do a good job of tracking the
	backorder and not to double charge ME for the handling or extra
	shipping.  I also do not expect to subsidize their cash flow by
	paying for backordered items before they are shipped.  The local
	dealer on the other hand is usually a little more expensive and,
	especially in the case of a highly specialized hobby shop,
	usually has things in stock, available for immediate change of
	hands.


	To be specific:

	I like Tower hobby, even though they no longer carry spare parts
	for the large number of HP engines that I bought from them. :-(
	I think they are the competition that makes the hobby more
	affordable to all of us.

	I like Indy R/C, because they carry MK stuff and a good selection
	of pattern items.

	I hate Sheldon's because after many large purchases, a simple
	exchange of belly mounted Rohm airs for firewall mounted Rohm
	airs, my return shipment was "lost" on their receiving dock.
	They did not cooperate with the U.S.P.S. tracing activity and
	after many phone calls and letters and in one case speaking with
	Ron, the apparent owner, they would do nothing to remedy to 
	problem.  After a year of this s***(f), I gave up, learning
	a valued lesson about insurance on return shipments.

	I think Hobby Shack is just O.K., mostly because I think that
	EZ kits are not.  They are very delicate, hard if not impossible
	to repair, and some (not all) of them fly very poorly.

	I like Tom's R/C in Chelmsford MA.  Tom is a good guy and carries
	a lot of R/C plane related items even though his valiant attempt
	to produce a non-corrosive nitro fuel resulted in a lot of very
	corroded aluminum engine parts.  He does not try to price gouge
	the less well informed that I know of.

	I am not too fond of the Hobby Center in the ?? mall Spit Brook
	and D.W. Hwy in Nashua, NH. even though I like Dave Hughes who
	works there.  They are more a craft store than a hobby store,
	at least where R/C planes are concerned and the price is never
	The Price unless you don't know any better and I hate to dicker.

	I like Red Max fuel.  Good stuff cheap and they will mix and
	match and blend fuel any way you want.  Still not sure, however,
	that I truly know what I want, but I do like a little castor in
	my fuel and I like to have a little 0% nitro on hand for after
	run clean out purposes.

	Anyone else know the good from the bad???  Is this the right note
	for that discussion?

	Ron

> Willie - calm down.
  
	Sorry, I'm calm now, it was just a very disappointing experience,
as the project I'm working on can't deal with lead times on the order of
months.

>I think your title is more than a little unfair.

	Given my sample size, admittedly small, statistics would lead one
to believe that their inventory was not what I had expected.

>seemed to be straight answers to me.
 
I guess my definition of straight answers includes: "We are out of stock
on that item, but we expect to be able to get you one by the following date."

>>    	3)	The backorder list for that vehicle is already over
>>    		one thousand names in length!!!!
>
>OK - so.

So I was just a little amazed that in one day (they were to have the
information on the 15th and I called on the 16th) they had racked up a
backorder list of over 1000 names....   The real problem was that when I
called a couple of weeks ago, the girl who I talked to gave me totally
incorrect information, as they had been selling them since before Xmas.

>>    I can always put on my OEM hat and call the manufacturer,
>>    but will that do me any good?  Many thanks in advance for any hints
>
>No.
 
Well, you were pretty much right, the girl at MRC sounded like she had never
heard of an electronics OEM.  I did manage to get a list of distributors
from her, and found that (true to form) most of the distributors wouldn't
talk to me, though one was nice enough to point me to a hobby shop that
had one in stock.  They (the hobby shop and thru them the distributor) are
going to get a lot of my business as a result.  Tower is not going to get
a lot of my business for the same reason.

>If you send me $400 cash I will get you the car real soon.
>My prices are a little high - but so are my promises.

Well, I got the vehicle for $257, a fair markup considering no other dealer,
distributor, or manufacturer had any of them, or knew when they would get
more, or how many they would get, or how I could get one right _NOW_.  Would
your promise (at a 35 percent markup over list) have gotten me the vehicle
yesterday?

>Oh yes - don't forget to include 5 percent Mass tax and $10 for
>shipping and handling.  All sales are final and there are no refunds
>on Radio Controlled equipment because I can't control the quality of
>your assembly or the skill with which you operate the car.

Don't forget 10 percent extra for UPS blue, 30 days on personal checks,
and all the rest!  That's OK, though, I can't control the quality of my
assembly either (already broke one part and non-fatally damaged another),
and the skill will have to wait till I get a radio, but any damage I'm going
to get to blame on my computer anyway.... :+)

>Willie - don't flame me :-)
 
Not flaming, it's just that I'm used to electronics hobby stuff which is
generally available on short notice, from multiple suppliers, with UPS blue
and COD only a minimal additional charge.  Chalk it all up to disappointment,
OK?

Willie

    
    
    	TRY SHELDONS HOBBY - I've had great success with them in the
    past and most of there prices are better than tower, AND you can
    easily get 2 day air service.
    

    I'D LIKE TO CAST A VOTE FOR BILL'S HOBBY BARN IN SALEM N.H.. I'VE
    FOUND HIS PRICES REAL CLOSE TO THE MAJOR MAIL ORDER PLACES. THE
    BUSINESS IT SELF IS LIKE A HOBBY TO HIM ( HIS REAL JOB IS A DESIGN
    ENGINEER I BELIVE) AND HE'S ADMITTED TO NOT WANTING TO MAKE A KILLING.
    HE'S IN IT FOR FUN AND AT THE SAME TIME HAS ALL THE TOYS HE COULD
    EVER WANT, BILLS HOBBY BARN IS LOCATED OFF OF RT,28 IN SALEN NEW
    HAMPSHIRE, ACROSS FROM THE OLD COMOS BUILDING.

>>Willie - don't flame me :-)
> 
>Not flaming, it's just that I'm used to electronics hobby stuff which is
>generally available on short notice, from multiple suppliers, with UPS blue
>and COD only a minimal additional charge.  Chalk it all up to disappointment,
>OK?
>
>Willie

Before anybody gets the wrong idea - I'm glad to see input like Willie just
did because it is far easier for us readers to hear the negative stuff about
any business thru this notes file than the official channels (The better 
business bureau).  Lord knows that the magazines never give negative reviews 
about anything.

              _!_      
Bye        ----O----   
Kay R. Fisher / \     

================================================================================

I have to agree with Willie here.

I ordered a battery pack for my BRUISER from
them back in October and they keep telling me
it will be in next week...  Every week...

I have tried to order several other parts for
the Bruiser that also have never showed up.
Ie. U-Joints, Rear Drive Shaft, Steering arm...

I have purchased all of these elsewhere,
although I have heard that they no longer make
the TAMIYA battery pack that I like.

However, I do like their catalog and use it as
a general guide of what I can buy elsewhere.

WARNING::
  I have also bought from TAMMIES HOBBIES in 
Beaverton OR.   They are TERRIBLE.  Worse than
TOWER.  
I bought a battery charger(SuperCharger) from them,
It didn't work,
I sent it back,
Three weeks later I got my package(Unopened let alone
examined) wrapped inside of another box returned to me.
I have no idea what they had in mind when they did this.
So anyway I am stuck with a broken charger.
When I called them to ask "What gives?" they said
they'd look into it and call me back. This was over
a month ago.

Have Fun and be careful,
BKOS

    I'VE HAD GREAT LUCK AND GOOD DELIVERIES WITH
    TOWER. I ORDERED A PLANE KIT HOWEVER THAT IS 
    4 WEEKS OVER DUE AND I HAVEN'T RECEIVED A BACK
    ORDER NOTIFICATION YET.... OTHER THAN THAT, I HAVE
    ONLY ONE COMPLAINT! I'VE CALLED A COUPLE TIMES TO PLACE
    AN ORDER AND THE WOMAN I DELT WITH WAS EVERYTHING 
    BUT PLEASANT! MY DAD HAD THE SAME COMPLAINT! IT WAS IF
    IT WAS A BIG INCONVENIENCE FOR HER TO TAKE MY ORDER!!
    I REALIZE THAT THE PHONES THERE MUST BE RINGING OFF THE HOOK
    ALL DAY AND THEY MUST GET TIRED OF PEOPLE ORDERING WITHOUT
    PART NUMBERS AND AGRIVATING STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT THAT'S
    THEIR JOB AND FRANKLY IT KINDA PISSED ME OFF THAT SHE WAS
    SO AGRIVATED. IT MUST BE THE SAME PERSON TOO CAUSE I RECOGNIZED
    THE VOICE. OTHER THAN THAT, TOWER HAS BEEN A GREAT PLACE TO
    SHOP FOR ALMOST EVERYTHING I'VE NEEDED.
                                    
    						TOM
    

re:

>    I REALIZE THAT THE PHONES THERE MUST BE RINGING OFF THE HOOK
>    ALL DAY AND THEY MUST GET TIRED OF PEOPLE ORDERING WITHOUT
>    PART NUMBERS AND AGRIVATING STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT THAT'S
>    THEIR JOB AND FRANKLY IT KINDA PISSED ME OFF THAT SHE WAS
    


  I recently ordered some items from their scratch and dent sale list.
Since all of these items were individually listed, the woman at Towers
had to look up each item and tell me whether anyone had bought it yet or
not.  I had her look up about 35 items (finally got 2 of the things I wanted)
and she was just as pleasant at the end as she was at the beginning.  
Towers had 3 different nubers to call:

For straightforward orders: 800-637-4989

For orders needing questions answered or product assistance: 800-637-6050

Non-toll free order line: 217-398-3636

  I would suggest using the question line when you don't have the stock
numbers. And if you do have a problem with an operator, call one of the
other lines and complain!  You/we deserve courteous treatment (at least
as much as you/we give them)!


  Jim

    WHEW!!! Willie, you sure sparked-up the notesfile, eh???? Well,
    I've used Tower alot and they usually have what I want or come thur
    shortly thereafter. Have had one return (their fault) that was no
    problem and was handled great by them.
    
    For those of you in Western MA, I've used Bill's Hobbies in E.
    Longmeadow. They seem to have a decent supply of parts (as well
    as models). Bring CASH, tho. No checks and a surcharge for CARD
    purchases. No BAD experiences there.......YET.
    
    Jon
    

    On Bill's, I've used Bill's for about 8 years, and haven't had a problem
    either.  If something isn't in stock, every attempt will be made
    to order it for you.  
    

    I FINALLY GOT MY 2 MONTH BACK ORDER FROM TOWER
    AND THEY SENT ME THE WRONG PLANE. I ORDERED A
    N.E. AERODYNAMICS SPORT-AIR 40 AND THEY SENT
    ME A TRAINER-40. I'M PISSED.... I CALLED CUSTOMER
    SERVICE AND THE GIRL SAID,"THAT HAPPENED TO 3 OTHER
    GUYS TOO"!!!!!!! THOSE SHIPPING PEOPLE MUST BE SNIFFIN
    GLUE!!
    
    	TOM

Several months ago I ordered a weight stick from Tower.  After a couple
of other orders arrived and they notified me that is was back ordered
I began to have second thoughts.  If it had been important to me I would
have called them but as it was I figured if it came fine and if it didn't
that was fine too.  Yesterday I received this post card in the mail.

DEAR TOWER HOBBIES CUSTOMER:

IT'S RECENTLY COME TO OUR ATTENTION THAT WE WILL BE 
UNABLE TO FILL AN OUTSTANDING BACKORDER FOR YOU AS WE HAD
PROMISED; WE REGRET THAT WE HAVE HAD TO CANCEL THAT
BACKORDER.

THE ITEM AND THE REASON FOR ITS CANCELLATION ARE NOTED ON
THE FRONT OF THIS CARD.  WE MAY HAVE ALSO NOTED AN
ALTERNATIVE ITEM WHICH YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER AS A 
REPLACEMENT FOR THE ONE ORIGINALLY ORDERED.

AT THIS TIME WE WISH TO OFFER OUR APOLOGIES FOR THIS
UNFORESEEABLE SITUATION.  WE'D ALSO LIKE TO OFFER THIS
POSTCARD AS AN 'INCONVENIENCE COUPON' WORTH $3.00 OFF THE
GRAND TOTAL OF YOUR NEXT MAILED-IN ORDER.  THANK YOU FOR
YOUR UNDERSTANDING.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$       SINCERELY,
$TC01                  TC01  $       TOWER HOBBIES, INC.
$$3.00 INCONVENIENCE COUPON  $       CUSTOMER SERVICE
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$       (217) 398-1100

Neat huh!

              _!_      
Bye        ----O----   
Kay R. Fisher / \     

================================================================================

    Kay,
    
    > Neat, huh?
    
    I'll say!  I know of few [if any] large hobby operations that exhibit
    that kinda' consideration for their customers.  The back-ordered
    item probably wasn't worth much more than that.
    
    BTW, what is this "weight stick?"  If it's a segmented, self adhesive
    lead bar that you break off to attain the desired ballast weight,
    I can offer a viable alternative: go to yer' local auto tire store and
    ask for a stick of mag-wheel balancing weights.  These are used
    to balance mag/aluminum wheels where clip-on weights cannot be used.
    I think they break off in 1-ounce increments and, if you clean the
    attaching surface thoroughly, they stick with a vengeance!  Just
    one caution: if yer' using them for nose-weight where fuel/exhaust
    residue can get to the weights, the oil will eventually undermine
    the adhesive so I recommend sticking the weights in place, then
    nesting them in epoxy to seal out the oil and reinforce the bond.
    
    Adios amigo,	Al  (minus 3-days and counting `til we meet)

    Al,
    	I think that the weight stick that Kay was referring to is an
    interesting way to weigh things.  It is a stick with weight markings
    on it that you hang over a table edge and slide out until it just
    balances.  Then you read the weight on the stick at the edge of
    the table.  I ordered one of these from tower and had it backordered
    as well.  I guess they became unavailable.
    
    CHarlie
    

    Nice idea!
    	
    Why don't you just _build_ one?  Out of flat aluminum or brass
    stock?  Calibration weights are easy: you can get them in most hobby
    stores that stock mad scientist chemicals.
                              
    Heck, it wouldn't be hard to write a calibration table that turns
    any yardstick into a "weight stick" :-)
    
    
    

    
    RE: .22 - I got two of those post cards!   I guess I had ordered
    them a while back and forgot about it (was one of them for you,
    Charlie?).  I though it was a nice touch.
    
    Bill

    P.S. the weight stick IS what Charlie mentioned, a simple device
    for weighing things.  Seems like a good idea, I wonder why they
    discontinued it.  I would think it would cost more to make one
    unless you had free access to calibrated weights.

    Why does Tower have to tick me off _every_ time I call?  I called
    to order a new radio package for Tycho, and was told that it was
    in stock and cost $214.  When I explained that it was supposed to
    be on sale, he said "Oh, here it is, on sale for $199."  So I ordered
    the durn thing anyway and then called the customer disservice number.
    
    Me:	Hi, I was told a couple of weeks ago that you had this radio
    on sale for $183.
    
    CDR: We are under no obligation to give you the sale price just
    because you order the radio when it's on sale.
    
    Me:  Ya, but shouldn't the sale price be $183 instead of $199, I
    was told a week or so ago that the $183 price was good thru then
    end of the month.
    
    CDR:  Well, I dunno, but the price is $199.  (We are Tower, we don't
    have to care!).
    
    Me:  Listen carefully [drop handset into cradle from 18 inches]....
                   
    They have been out of stock of the Kyosho metric hardware kits for
    all of this year so far....
    
    Willie

        Ditto! I don't like dealing with a company that runs constant
        sales, has different prices depending on the phase of the moon the
        day you order, or charges three different prices depending on
        which of three order numbers you give them for the product. They
        don't seem to be able to get much information about a product
        either; I just called about a couple sale items, and it took them
        a long time to find out nothing. They did say I could order it and
        return it if I didn't like it! What a pain.
        
        Just to make matters worse, I live in Illinois, so I have to pay
        sales tax on everything from Tower. That, plus the $5 order and
        the "don't you want the extra $1 'rush' fee" makes it impractical
        for me to order anything but large orders or big ticket items.
        Sometimes their sales are good deals; I think I got my Moto-Tool
        that way, and there are a couple items in their current flyer I
        might go for, but overall I find them more of a pain. Maybe it's
        all due to their ibm computer :-( 
        
        SIG on the other hand doesn't play games with prices, and can't be
        beat for customer service. They've spoiled me; I get upset when my
        phone order doesn't arrive in 2 days, no special handling or extra
        postage, just regular orders. When I've needed special balsa, they
        will go out and hand select what you want, for $.10/sheet! 

    I arrived home last weekend to find 2 boxes waiting for me, the
    stuff I had ordered from Tower and an order of electronics stuff
    from Digi-Key.  What a world of difference!  The Digi-Key people
    were helpful and courteous when taking my order, had no problem
    at all with UPS Blue (only charged me what it cost them), knew what
    they had and what it cost before I hung up the phone, and did thier
    usual professional job.  Any times I've had a problem with an order
    they have bent over backwards to straighten it out.  No games, no
    fuss, no special sales, just good prices and consistency.
    
    On the other hand, the radio from Tower came with S-148 servos instead
    of S-138's, came with a free (gosh, golly gee wow, a free catalog
    from Tower!) catalog and Tower-talk, an ad for a Kyosho Ultima printed
    on the bottom of the invoice, and a really aggravating letter from
    the president of Tower (half of which was a coupon for a price break
    on 6 minute epoxy).  In it he told me that "You've made the right
    first move and now it's time for us to pull out all the stops and
    treat you like a king!"  He goes on like this for a while, telling
    me how Tower has great prices, excellent service, and considers
    the customer to be "absolutely the most inportant part of Tower
    Hobbies".  He hopes I will use the epoxy coupon [non-transferrable,
    limit of one per new customer] to "really get "stuck" on Tower
    Hobbies." I sure feel like something is sticking to me....
    
    I dunno, if I were 10 years old and didn't have to pay for this
    stuff, I'd probably be thrilled, but the R/C industry is years behind
    the electronics industry.  This business of charging money for catalogs
    of stuff you can buy from them, 20 percent surcharge for UPS Blue,
    a 30 day 'grace' period for personal checks, randomly chosen prices,
    and customer disservice with a vengance is really turning me off.
    I think my next R/C vehicle is going to be custom built from
    commercially available parts from electronics and mechanical
    distributors....
    
    Willie

    Re: .28 & .29,
    
    I just have to say it; if anything aggravated _me_ as badly as Tower
    Hobbies obviously does you, I'd fix that in a _big_ hurry...I'd quit 
    doing business with them immediately!!  You know the old adage;
    "Screw me once, shame on you...screw me twice, shame on _me_!"
    
    I personally continue to be more than satisfied with the price,
    availability and customer service I've received from Tower over the 
    15+ years I've done business with them and I thought _I_ was
    very picky and hard to please in this area.  I simply refuse to
    waste my time, money and sense of humor on unsatisfactory businesses 
    but, so far, I remain happy with Tower.  

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    I have to agree with .30, I have yet to experience anything other
    than minor annoyance with Tower.  Other than being out of stock
    occasionally (although they seem to have this problem a lot with
    car parts), the only problem I had was that they sent me a Kyosho
    delta peak charger that had been used.  I called them and said that
    I had recieved a used product, but had purchased a new one, and
    that if they were in the practice of mailing used product to people
    who had paid for new, they were engaged in something dnagerously
    close to mail fraud.  They sent me a new one immediately (came in
    4 days) and UPS came by to get the used one.  I was happy.  Two
    weeks later, I got the used one from UPS, this time packed in the
    box was a computer printed form saying "technicians diagnosis: 
    No problem with Unit, charge $0.00"  and I now have two chargers.
    I really dont think that stock shortages are exclusive to Tower,
    and I can't get any more upset about Tower not having something
    than I can get upset about my local hobby shop not having something.
    Whats the problem here ?

    Sorry guys, I'm just spoiled by the electronics industry and hobbyist
    electronics places, and the entire R/C industry seems to have never
    even heard of things I take for granted, like free catalogs, shipping
    at cost, OEMs, samples, customer service, realistic prices, etc.  I'd
    go elsewhere if I thought there was an 'elsewhere' with better results,
    but there doesn't seem to be much of an option.
    
    Willie 

    Willie,
    	If you don't like Tower, I'm afraid you better stay away from
    the other hobby mail order places.  Tower is BIG and frankly, I'm
    impressed with their service.  I have never had an order take more
    than a week and they tell you on the phone what's in stock and what's
    not.  Nothing pisses me off more than places that can't tell you
    on the phone if something's in stock or not.  Tower also verifies
    the prices of all sale items on the phone.  I have had one minor
    order screw-up which they rectified immediately when I called them.
    I have had a hard time getting through on their toll free number
    at times.  Tower also supplies most of the other mail order places
    and the hobby shops since they are Great Planes.  They are the only
    OS distributer.
    
    Charlie
    

    Another Tower anecdote:
    
    I placed an order with Tower for about 10 small items.  I received
    the order 4 business days later.  I opened the box only to find
    3 items missing.  According to the invoice, they were shipped (circled
    in pen).  I called the 800 number and explained.  They filled out
    a form and told me that the customer service people would call me
    back.  By Tuesday, no call.  I called again and went through the
    same thing all over.  Same response: customer service will call
    you.  No call by the next day, so I called the customer service
    # instead.  They told me that the missing items had been shipped
    already.  I was pretty annoyed at first, but after thinking about
    it, they did after all send me the items even though their shipping
    records indicated that they had been sent.
    
    So, the moral?  I don't know.  At first I thought I got the runaround,
    but it all turned out OK.  I guess things like this are just bound
    to happen.
    
    Some random thoughts,
    
    mike
    

    I had a similar experience with items missing from a Tower shipment
    even though they were circled on the shipping reciept.  I called
    thier order # and in now more than three minutes they had checked
    with the supervisor for authorization to send me the missing items.
    I had them two days later. I have placed many orders with Tower
    and have had a problem only this once. Needless to say I was pleased
    by thier actions to correct the problem.
    
    Todd
    

    Another story to illuminate the fact that I believe Tower to be
    as good a mail-order service as we have in the hobby/sport.
    
    I called Tower in early July asking for price/availability on a
    set of Rhom-air 90-degree rotating retracts (for the Holman Hellcat
    I think I'll start building).  They said these retracts were currently
    out-of-stock (as they're a low volume item) but they'd take the
    order information and ship as soon as they were received, probably
    in early August.  This was fine as I was certainly in no hurry,
    just wanted to start accumulating the systems I'd need when
    construction commences.  So, I gave them my particulars including
    my VISA card number and proceeded to pretty much forget about it.
    
    Then, last week, a box arrives from UPS and I remember, "Oh, yeah,
    this must be the retracts I ordered from Tower."  Opening the box,
    I find the retracts _and_ a bottle of ZAP I hadn't ordered.  Looking
    at the invoice, I see that they (Tower) had adjusted the price by
    a $3.00 credit I'd forgotten I had and the ZAP was notated "No Charge,
    thank you for your patience."  I don't know about you, but I'd say
    that was pretty efficient and the ZAP was a damn nice jesture on their 
    part, reflective of the service I've always received and become 
    accustomed to from Tower.  

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    After reading all the replies, I guess I'll add my two cents.  I
    have bought from the following mail order houses:
    Tower, Hobby Lobby, Muchler's, Sheldon's, Wilshire, America's Hobby
    Center, and a couple more I can't remember.  Tower has been average,
    America's Hobby Center is the worst, and Sheldon's was the best
    for me.  Most of the time you are speaking with someone who isn't
    a modeler which doesn't help.  But remember, we are all foregoing
    our local businesses to save money(an unfortunate trend)!  The day
    will come when there will be almost no hobby shops and then we all
    will have to buy from the mail order boys!  We are saving money,
    but inevitably there will be inconveniences(ie rude, unknowledgeable
    clerks, backorders, slow delivery, mistakes, etc.).  Try when possible
    to support your local hobby shop!
    
    Regards,
    
    Jim

  I just place my first order with Omni, the supplier that is trying to 
compete with Tower.  I ordered the Goldberg anniversary edition J-3, a new
sealing iron and some Zap-a-Gap.  The Cub is on backorder but they said 
their shipment should be in today or tomorrow.  The order came to just over
$75 so I don't have to pay any shipping charges.  The gentleman that took my
order was very pleasant and helpful.  I'll let you know when my order gets
here and its condition.


   Jim



  P.S. I have never had a bad experience with Tower, but I don't mind trying
       a competitor.  Maybe it will force Tower to be that much better.

>  I just place my first order with Omni, the supplier that is trying to 
>compete with Tower.  I ordered the Goldberg anniversary edition J-3, a new
>sealing iron and some Zap-a-Gap.  The Cub is on backorder but they said 
>their shipment should be in today or tomorrow.  The order came to just over
>$75 so I don't have to pay any shipping charges.  The gentleman that took my
>order was very pleasant and helpful.  I'll let you know when my order gets
>here and its condition.
>


   Well, I arrived home Tuesday evening to find a large box from Omni models
sitting at my door.  As advertised there was no shipping charge, but there 
was also no sealing iron.  The invoice shows that the sealing iron is 
back-ordered.  I was not charged for the iron yet, only the plane and the 
Zap.
  So the delivery time seems to be competitive with Tower, especially 
considering the back-ordering of the plane at order time, and there was no
shipping charge. 
   I don't think I will hesitate to give Omni more of my business.


    Jim

    I ordered mine 3 weeks ago today, it came last Friday. I sent in the
    application from a mag along with a check. I was more than a little
    upset with the amount of time it took to get me the catalog. I mailed
    in my AMA application at the same time and got my card in only 2 weeks! 
      
    For a company that is (strictly?) in the mail order business, three
    weeks to get a catalog out would seem to provide a wealth of
    opportunities for lost business. I'd probably be more pissed but for
    the fact that I like cataloges for guides and want lists and always try
    to buy from local hobby shops if possible. 
      
    Not impressed with Tower, 
      
    Randy
    

    
    It doesn't seem that Tower is the only mail order company to
    act in this fashion. On a completetly different product, compact
    discs, it took the catalog three weeks to get from Nashua, N.H.
    to Marlboro. This same place delivers orders in about 3 days !!
    
    My experience with Tower has always been that I always receive the
    product within about a week, providing of course it's in stock.
    I guess these companies don't feel sending out catalogs is as important
    as filling orders. On the other hand I think they should give their
    paying customers highest priority.
    
    Mike

    I guess Tower does better with their orders than with catalogs which
    seems to be not in their best interest.  I ususlly phone in my order
    and have it in less than a week.  I never pay the extra for faster
    handling.  If you order something, they will send you a catalog
    with the order so that's probably the fastest way to get a catalog.
    
    Charlie
    

    Once you've placed an order you'll get catalogs and sales flyers
    forever!

    
    Well, not forever.  I went in with other people's orders too many times
    and they stopped sending me catalogs.  I think they told me that they
    stop sending catalogs if you don't place an order for 6 months.
    
    I'm always surprised to hear that people charge money for their
    catalogs.  It doesn't seem to make good business sense to me.  The
    small cost of the catalog is peanuts compared to the money they
    can make off you later.  I doubt if there are many people that have
    a catalog that have never placed an order.
    
    Anyhow, the way around paying for the catalog is to borrow someone
    else's when you make your first order, then ask Tower to send one
    with the order - that way it's free.

    Bill

>    I'm always surprised to hear that people charge money for their
>    catalogs.  It doesn't seem to make good business sense to me.  The
>    small cost of the catalog is peanuts compared to the money they
>    can make off you later.  I doubt if there are many people that have
>    a catalog that have never placed an order.

    Actually, the reason for this is (and I apologize profusely) people
    like me. I like catalogs. The more the better. They are the best way I
    have  found of learning what's available, what reasonable prices are
    and so on. I probably get 10 or so woodworking catalogs. I've only
    ordered from one or two of them. I just drool over the others. I don't
    mind paying for them because I consider them such a valuable resource.
    Most of the better companies seem to understand this and go the $n off
    your first order certificate route which makes their catalog free if
    you actually use their service. 

    Building up my stock of RC catalogs,
    Randy

My understanding is that Tower will stop sending catalogs if you
don't order for 2 years.  I placed an order with them this last
Dec. for just that reason...I like the catalog as a reference.
This was my first order in about 18 months.

Actually, Phlyin Phil, my local model junkie, has advertised that
he will equal Tower prices with 50% down.  I like that -- I
always feel disloyal to Phil when I place a Tower order.  Anyway,
this'll be my last Tower order if Phil's offer is valid.  He
helps me a lot.

Probably coulda come out ahead on my last order, actually.  The
Tower catalog listed the Sagitta 600 at $44 or so and when I
called up it had gone to $52.  Bet Phil would've given me the old
price.  Of course, what I really wanted out of the $70 Tower
order was those keen Tower stickers at $.85/sheet.  Plastered one
on my Eaglet wing and Phil nearly choked when he saw it.  I'm
confident that I won't have anymore Eaglet questions for him.

    FWIW...
    
    I received the current Tower Talk. In it was a line listing for "Top
    Quality Hobbies ARF Elec Sailplane", one line for "COV" one line for
    "UNCOV".  I called to get info, I was told it's in stock but they
    couldn't even tell me what the span was!  I called Customer Service...
    same thing.
    
    Well to make a long story short, we negotiated an agreement:
    I ordered it.  If I don't like it I may return it (unused, of course).
    Tower will refund the cost of the item, PLUS their shipping charges,
    PLUS _MY_ shipping charges to return it.  
    
    They concurred that they should have had more info available, and
    were willing to back up their short-fall.  Sounds like an OK deal.
    
    More info to follow as soon as I see what this thing really is!!
    
                             |                      
   \	       	         ____|____                      /   Regards,
    \________________________O_________________________/    Frank.
    

What is the Tower phone # to order a catalog ?

thanks

        From:

        http://www.prairienet.org/business/tower/tower.html

        Tower has moved (Web-wise) to:
        
        http://www.towerhobbies.com/
        
        1-800-637-6050 for questions or assistance
        
        1-800-637-4989 for orders if you have the stock numbers