Conference vmszoo::rc

    
    About your comment:
    
        Interesting thing: The recommended glue type is medium thickness
        CA rather than thin CA. Anyone got comment on this ??

    The thin stuff won't gap-fill for you.  To use the thin stuff, you've
    got to have the two surfaces to be glued mate perfectly.  The medium
    stuff, I've heard, is supposed to make up the difference.
    
    I prefer white glue for internal joints, epoxy when necessary, and
    Ambroid on external joints.  Only use I've found for the thin CA
    stuff is to turn wood into rock in a few areas (like where the switch
    wire comes out of the fuselage)...
    
    Any others care to comment?

    
    
    	You mean they still make white glue,epoxy and Ambroid? Well
    what the hell, we still make RL02's........:-)
    
    						Tom
    
    
    Use the mediam CA. I like Superjet.

    
    Just keep CA away from any balsa you need to sand later!
    
    Bill
    

>    Intruction boolket not as detailed as the Great Planes kit I did
>    but I'll manage. One nice touch: They give a cutting pattern for
>    covering the plane. Apprently will need only 2 rolls. (I bought
>    3 roll of Black baron cub yellow..)

Do your self a favor and use all 3 rolls.  Be liberal on the wing tip
panels and in other areas and use the extra length for grabbing with your
hand.  It will make it much easier to stretch over curves.

>    Interesting thing: The recommended glue type is medium thickness
>    CA rather than thin CA. Anyone got comment on this ??

For every joint that ends up looking nice and tight use thin CA.
I use nearly all thin CA for the hole plane - it's much faster.  If you
use medium be sure to get a bottle of kicker to keep your building speed up.


              _!_      
Bye        ----O----   
Kay R. Fisher / \     

================================================================================

        Re:< Note 384.5 by K::FISHER "Battery, Mags, & Gas Off!" >

                I use this CA  and  Zap-A-Gap,  kicker  and epoxy.  Epoxy
        where  strength  and vibration requires  the  strongest  possible
        joint and for filling wide gaps such as when joining wing halves.
        I use thin CA whereever there is  a  good fit and Zap-A-Gap where
        the fit is less than perfect.  I  have  found that CAREFUL use of
        accellerator greatly improved the ability of Zap to fill  and gap
        strongly.  The danger is that kicker generated a lot  of heat and
        can damage both the CA and the surface being glued.   In very few
        cases I have actually taken advantage of the heat.
        
        Anker

    I've never used kicker..(I can the heads shaking already.) 
    
    My question is: Is there a difference in th bond if CA is allowed
    to cure normally as oppesed to when it is given "help"
    
    md

Well, I must say that I am impressed that you folks can build an
ENTIRE airplane with thin CYA.  My joints fit pretty good, but
all I get is well-soaked wood with no bonding. Thin Zap is pretty
good, I have had some success with the stuff, but Satellite
City's thin stuff is impossible.  Back in Silicon Valley I used
to enjoy seeing Zap curl smoke when it kicked off fast.  Up here
in the dry Rockies I have to use kicker, whether I use thick or
thin or fit the joints or not.  The only thing I can bond without
kicker up here is my fingers!  Sure cures picking one's nose
while building....

As to you folks who disparage the use of Ambroid and white glue
-- I say Nanny Nanny; I like to use  different adhesives,
including different setting time epoxies, celluloise, white glue,
and CYAs.  Just depends on the application.  

I recently saw an Eagle 63 built by a local cowboy (literally)
with white glue.  The covering was put on with an iron.  But he
taught himself to fly with it -- when I saw it it was in Phlyin'
Phil's shop getting repairs.  Seems that he was flying it and
lost sight of it behind the barn!

    got a real neat piece of info from my instructor. He was over this
    week end looking over the kit & giving me pointer. He suggests the
    use of baking soda (Yup, you read right..Just watch out for the
    missus when yuo raid the pantry) to fill the gaps. WOrk great as
    a filler and will act as a kicker for ZAPAGAP.
    
    He also suggested I install a push-pull system for the rudder. That
    should e peice of cake. Doing the same so the elavator woul require
    more sugery. We'll see..
    
    md
   

    Also, (seen in some "hints" pages of some magazine) why pay for
    Zap kicker??
    
    You can mix baking soda and water and put it in a spray bottle.
    Then use just like any other kicker.  I image that if you use a
    kicker (I don't), it would really save some money...
    
    Cheers,
    jeff
    

    I've now completed the outlines for the tail fin & rudder.
    I', keeping the trusses & sanding for later (when its time to add
    attach to fuse).
    
    Started on the fuse. Hey guys, this mother is B*I*G. I've got all
    the part out of the die. The fuse is solid 1/8th plywood throughout.
    I'm impressed ! I hope it turns out as tough as one would be led
    to believe (Ply is tougher than balsa, right ?)
    
    md

    Well, the fuse has been boxed & partially glued. Every thing cam
    out right on the money. Spent 2 hours making sure everything
    was lined up OK. Using tape as suggested in the instructions helps
    greatly. BTW, plywood is a bitch to glue compared to balsa.
    
    If all goes well, I'll be working on the wing by week end. 
    
    
    md

    lemmee see, where was I. Started on fuse.
    
    For my money, plywood fuses are for the birds. This particular instance
    is a bitch to get glued. (but them again I'm verrry fussy).
    
    I've got the fuse glued from the tail to the back od the cabin.
    
    The kits sez to use rubber bands & tapes to bring pieces together.
    The bands are ok, They will get the fuse boxed easily.. Forget the
    tape (you're supposed to use it to bring the pieces together so
    they can be glued properly). Get yourself some C-clamps of appropriate 
    size instead. They offer better control and are easier to use.
    
    For glue, you need the medium thickness CA. WOrks great when all
    the parts are adjusted right. I still prefer balsa as a material.
    Plywood does drink up as fast and therefore the bond take longer
    to take. Kicker is almost a requirement here.
    
    For what its worth, the fit of the part is OK, (ie not exceptional).
    It gets the job done as everything is lined up just right per the
    plan. The Great Planes I did had a very tight fit and left almost
    no gaps.
    
    There is going to be a lot of filling to be done before covering
    on this one.
    
    TTFN
    
    md
    

    well, the fuse is all done.  started on the wings.. Right wing is
    almost done. But i've hist a snag: after i put the top sheetting
    on the leading edge, i discovered I now have a banana shaped wing
    about a 1/4 inch rise from center to outer rib (tip not on yet).
    
    Now can aynone give me a clue or two on how to get myself out of
    this mess without having to dismantle my handywork. At the moment,
    the only thing I can think of is to soak the LE sheeting and apply
    weights to the wing to straighten it out...
    
    md
    

    Marc,
    
    How th' heck did that happen?  You "did" have the framework pinned
    down to a flat work-surface, didn't you?? 
    
    At any rate, what you surmise is likely the only way you might
    straighten things out.  Dampen the entire framework [not just the
    lead edge sheeting], then pin or weight the structure down to a
    flat surface with about a 1/8" shim under the lead edge half-way
    out the wing-panel.  (The purpose for shimming a bow in the opposite 
    direction is to allow for the built-in stresses which will try to
    pull the structure back to its original [up-bowed] shape.)  Leave
    wing pinned/weighted down for a coupla' days to be sure it has
    thoroughly dried.  When unpinned/weighted, the wing should be straight
    or exhibit a slight opposite bow [this is fine].
    
    Immediately apply the bottom sheeting as, given enough time, the
    wing will try to return to the original shape.  This works about
    60% of the time...if it doesn't work for you, try it again with
    a 1/4" shim under the lead edge.  If still unsuccessful, you have
    two choices:  get out the debonder and start disassembling the struc-
    ture or leave it alone and deliberately build in a similar amount
    of bow in the other wing.  1/4" over that long a span would be barely
    discernable and flight characteristics would not be affected at
    all.
    
    Adios and g'luck, amigo,	Al

    pinned downed ??? nope (ya ya i know - not very clever !!) I needed
    to access the front of the wing to glue the LE top sheeting properly
    to the LE so I turned the wing around facing me and did i my shtick.
    
    I did waht the book said to do which wat to wet the sheeting so
    that it would bend more easily.
    
    The whole structure you say ? Ribs and all ?? This sounds like I
    better put the whoole wing in the shower :-). 
    
    Now this banana of mine might not be all the bad as I have to build
    dihedral into the wing when I join both panel.
    
    I pride myself in building straight. This a blow to my pride !!
    
    arumph..
    
    md

    MARC,
    
    Yeah, I hear ya' about the "matter of personal pride" stuff.  I'm
    the same way...verrry particular [sometimes almost too much so]
    about cleanliness and trueness of construction.
    
    No, don't put the wing in the shower, bathtub ar swimming pool...
    the "key" word here is "dampen," not soak the structure.  Actually,
    "steam" is the BEST way to accomplish this and you just might be
    able to straighten things by hand, holding the wing over a steaming
    tea-kettle [or equivalent] and flexing the wing opposite the existing
    bow.  (Work carefully and don't break anything.)  The hot moisture
    tends to loosen glue joints slightly at the same time it makes the
    wood more [temporarily] flexible.
    
    If this fails, go back to my original suggestion using a spray bottle
    to "dampen" the structure sufficiently to pin/weight it down with
    and opposite bow.
    
    Adios,	Al

        Re:< Note 384.20 by GHANI::CASEYA "THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8)" >

                I use  ammonia in water to prebend sheeting before gluing
        it on.   I  don't go out and purchase ammonia, but use the window
        cleaner that I have  in  the  field box for removing oil gue - it
        contains a small quantity of  ammonia.    An  added bonus it that
        it's in a spray bottle thats  just  the  ticket for dampening and
        not soaking.
        
        Anker

    Ammonia is a go.. I'll pick some up at the store.
    
    I plan to spray the LE sheating top & bottom, inside & out with
    the stuff, then lay winf on flat surface with a 3/32 " shim in the
    middle of the span to work out the curve.
    
    md

    Marc,
    
    Sounds like a good plan...let us know how it works out.  BTW, keep
    an eye peeled toward the trailing-edge while all of this is going
    on...don't let it get out of whack while the lead-edge is being
    straightened.
    
    Re: .-1, Anker,
    
    Is the concentration of ammonia in the window cleaner adequate to
    enhance the shaping of the balsa sheet or is the moisture doing
    the most of the job?  I'd have thought the concentration of ammonia
    would be too slight to have much effect but, maybe, a little is
    sufficient to the task.  It'd sure be more convenient, not to mention
    smelling a lot better.
    
    Adios,	Al

        Re:< Note 384.23 by GHANI::CASEYA "THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8)" >

        Al,
        
                I haven't  tried  anything else, so I wouldn't be able to
        tell, but it  works real well and I don't have to soak it so that
        it comes out the  other  side.   You have to be real careful with
        concentrated ammonia, it will eat into you just like concentrated
        acids. What concentration do you use anyway?
        
        Anker

    Anker,
    
    I've been using it full strength right out of the bottle with no
    ill effects to either airframe or my persona.  Understand, I'm talking
    plain, garden variety, household ammonia here, not the highly potent
    industrial stuff.
    
    I just pour it out into a bowl and use a cellulose sponge to apply
    it to the outer surface [only] of the sheeting.  BTW, another little
    trick comes from the Andrews Aeromaster kits of yore; for sheeting
    the upper nose area, the instructions recommended coating the inside
    of the sheeting with a thin film of cellulose glue (Ambroid, Duco,
    Testors, etc.) then [when dry] dampening the "outside of the sheeting
    with water [ammonia'd work even better].  The shrinkage of the
    cellulose glue on the inside, combined with the swelling of the dampened
    outside surface, tends to pull the sheeting into the desired curvature,
    almost automatically.  Works like a champ but may be superfluous
    if yer' using ammonia which does a bang-up job all by itself.
    
    Adios,	Al.

    Al & Anker,
    	I have used the window cleaner trick and it does work great.
    I sheeted the nose of the Aeronca with 1/8th and had no problems.
    Also the entire 85 1/2" wing is sheeted, and the spray was fantastic.
    
    Dan
    

    well I used water only as a first try. (could not get to store for
    ammonia). I wetted outside of sheeting at leading edge, put shim
    in the middle and weigned everything down at all 4 corners.
    
    Looked at this morning: straight as an arrow !! Its back under weigths
    (without shim) until I come home tonite .

    Marc,
    
    Great!  Do you still have bottom lead-edge sheeting to apply?  If
    so, get it on as soon as yer' positive the wing's dry to prevent
    it returning to the original bow.
    
    Adios,	Al

    actually, on this kit, the construction procedure calls for the
    bottom LE sheeting to be glued first. Then the top LE sheeting is
    applied (add water to curl downward. After all was said & done, I
    had an almost completed wing (missing only the tip & TE top sheeting)
    that looked like a banana. 
    
    So, I wet the outside of both top & bottom LE sheeting and applied
    weight. Tonite I plan to put on wingtip, TE sheeting & sheer webs
    and go one to other wing.
    
    I hope the bow won't come back. It does, well its ammonia time !!
    
    md
    

    Marc,
    
    Keep the wing pinned/weighted down absolutely flat while you install
    the remaining sheeting and shear-webbing and it should stay straight 
    for you. If not, things are gonna' get more difficult as the wing
    gets more permanently "set" the more structure is added.
    
    Adios,	Al

    Aye, aye, cptn, sir!!

    Started on the left wing tonite after a break to catch with piles
    of mags (Analog & scientific american). 
    
    So i get the parts out of the box to do an inventory ant lay everything
    out in proper order..Now I find one of the LE sheeting parts is
    missing. Now I *KNOW* it was there the last time I checked the kit.
    
    So I start looking around. Then by hunch, I decided to look in th
    playroom, next door to the workshop. Ya see, i've been give the
    scrap wood to my son to play with (he has is own set up in there
    and it keeps him out of my hair ans out of danger from all the stuff
    in the workshop. I've trained him not to touch any tool or jar or
    tube wahtsoever).  weell, would you know it, i found a couple of
    pieces that looked like they where parts from the sheeting.
    
    but I couldn't find the rest of them. Look around again, look in
    other rooms downstair. Give up and go upstairs mumbling & slightly
    peeved.. mention to wife that i think my gloriuod offdpring has
    used his initiative again and got parts of wood he should not have
    touch (I gave 1 piece, then 2 piece, then n more pices, so he used
    inference and decided to get piece n+1...got nicest piece too !!
    but I can't find all the parts...She sez:"Oh but your daughter dearest
    (3 year old halion) came up with a couple of pieces just before supper
    (I was fishing around in my files and she came down too) and I broke
    them up and put the them in the trash !!!! So I fish under the supper
    and come up with the rest of the evidence....
    
    AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHH......
    
   Giva-moi a break pls !!!
    
    IN the mean time, the other parts ar being pinned to the plan as
    to prevent a recurrence of the banana.
    
    md
    

	Nice to see it's all going smoothly Marc.......

	bob    

    go walk the yellow line on the M1 loking for peanuts!!
    
    md

    well, the left wing is almost done. The only left to glue the sheeting
    on the LE & TE. Still need to hit the hobby shop about replacing
    the sheeting my son played with. Also ran out of glue. (i've got
    2 oz of ZAP-A-GAP into the plane so far). 
    
    BTw, speeaking of glue, I bought the bottle of thin HOT STUFF.
    The glue is ok. the bottle is terrible. It always plugs up. It's
    not likely I/m going to buy on other bottle from these guys soon
    
    
    md
    
    hey bob, you find the peanuts yet? (I guess not, he's been awful
    quiet lately)
    
    

	Hya Marc. 


	I'm still trying to figure out how to loke.......
        
	I've been on nights, it's difficult to type with my eyes
	closed.. Then I'm on a course this week... 

    use a flashlight !

    well, things have slow lately, what with te Olympics & helping the
    wife finish scrapping paint off here project. Anyway, got the wing
    done and both pieces together. started an TE tips and aileron control
    rods. Got everything done just right. Now just need to fill gaps,
    sand some and fit ailerons and we can cover !!!
    
    
    Ah!!! fat chance. As I sat back & looked over the handy work.(The
    aileron control was real slick, I notices the servo end of the rod
    was sticking out the top of the wing.. 
    
    Arumph. I've done it again. The rod are install inside out. Gonna
    have to rip the stuff apart and fix this mess. Ok world, why me??
    
    md

    The wing is finally ready for covering. I'm now working on putting
    the finishing touches to the fuse.  I also ordered a new radio:
    An other EXPERT 7. Tried to get a flight pack. AH - fat chance.
    Indy RC quoted me $142 (a complete system is $164), Mutchlers only
    sells complete systems. Tried POLK's and they sell "a la carte"
    and it works out to about $130. I guess i'll keep the old TX until
    I get my glider set up. MY wife is going to kill me !!!
    
    Ok, I need some input about what to do with my engine. It's a HP
    .40 rear intake, side exhaust. Booklet sez this sucker develops
    1.20 HP @ 18k rpm with muffler. recomended prop is a 10X6
    Now the plans say the recommended engine size is from .40 to .60
    
    I don't have a muffler for the engine. It has been suggested that
    I get a PITTS style muffler. Does anyone know where I can get such
    a device for this size engine? 
    
    The other thing that crossed my mind was to get a muffler/pipe.
    I would be able to get a a bit more juice out the the engine.
    
    ANyone got any comments/suggestions.
    
    md

    Marc,
    
    Slimline, Mac's and others make Pitts style mufflers but I have
    to make an observation; sounds to me like you haven't exactly chosen
    the _ideal_ engine for the Cub.
    
    You certainly don't want the J-3 cruising around with the engine
    screaming @ 15Krpm, even if the spped/power seems right.  The engine
    you describe sounds an awful lot like a racing engine to me, not
    something to power a slow, elegantly graceful ol' high winger.  You'd
    need to slow it down with a larger prop and, if this _is_ athorough-
    bred racing engine, chances are fair to good it's gonna' balk at
    being slowed from it's optimum RPM.
    
    Were I you, I'd hastily substitute a nice friendly, plain vanilla
    .60 for the racing .40.  It's _much_ better suited to the application,
    will be much easier to operate/handle and won't mind at all blubbering
    around with a 12-13" prop.

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    I tried a slimline pitts muffler on my Supertigre 61 and it was
    LOUD.  I won't fly with it any more.  It should not be called a
    muffler, but an exhaust down deflector.  If anyone knows of a good
    pitts style muffler, let me know.  I just sent for info from Davis
    Diesel on their new quiet mufflers.
    
    Charlie
    

    re .-1: Indy RC told me Saturday that they did indeed have PITTs style 
    muffler for .60 engines.  Giv'em a call & see


    
  md

    re .40,
    
    Yup, this is indeed a racing type engine. book also sez if you get
    a couple of parts (card & head button), you're set for F1 pylon racing!!
    
    Now, I had in mind of getting a higher pitch prop, maybe a bigger
    one too (say 11X7) and a good muffler to give a more realistic
    sound and keep the noise bearable. I thnk I've more than enough
    power to get me started. A pipe/muffler (MACS sells those) would
    be added later to get more power if necessary for aerobatics.
    
    I also gave some thought to trying to trade the engine (worth $100+)
    for a FOX .50 or .60. 
    
    
    md
    

	re.39
    
>    ANyone got any comments/suggestions.
    
  

	Send it to me.......

    ok.. I need  some help/advice to get the that fuel tank, muffler
    and throttle pushrod squared away. Its the only thing left to do
    before I get this sucker in the air.
    
    The HP40 is a rear intake engine so i've had to improvise.
    
    The throttle pushrod comes backs on the LHS of the fuse. Fine so
    far. I want to insert the fuel tank and keep the bottom level with
    the carb. Now that means that the pushrod is in the way. 
    
    What will happen if the tank is fitted lower than the carb ? 
    
    The other problem I have is the muffler. I got this J-TEC in-cowl
    muffler. I have to install a pressure fitting for the tank and run
    the tubing back to the tank.
    
    Is there anyone who would be willing to spend a bit of time looking
    this over and let me know whether i'm headed for disaster city or
    what i'm doing is going to be ok. 
    
    send me mail or call me at dtn 297-7524 or at home 617-278-7524
    
    tx,
    
    
    md

    Marc,
    
    I told ya' not ta' use that thar' racin' engine!  :B^)
    
    If you mount the tank low, the engine will try to run lean all the
    time...too high and it'll run rich.  The only way to overcome this
    _FACT_ is to use (ARRRRRRRGH!!!) a pump to assure a steady fuel flow.
    
    Muffler pressure will help (and should be used) but won't substitute
    for an improperly located tank.    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    the problem  is not  with the fact is a racing engine as much as
    its a rear intake engine that's cowled-in.
    
    Anyway, got a call from my instrucotr last night (been running about
    the countryside for the apst few weeks). He told me to make sure
    the the centreline of the  tank be lined up with the centreline
    of the carb. He also suggested that I install a support plate under
    the tank to ensure it stay put properly.
    
    The needle valve will be extended by using a spring. The throttle
    pushrod will be shifted toward the fuse side to clear the tank and
    line it up with the servo.
    
    The muffler will screwed in place and a pressur fitting installed.
    
    If all goes well, I should be all done this weekend..
    
    md

    Finally.. !!! Its all done and ready to fly..
    
    Took it to the club picnic Sunday for a check-out and possible maiden
    flight (beeing realsitic, I didn't expect it to occur).
    
    Get there, unload plane and put it together. Go to put on prop using
    new spinner and promplty stripped threads. Turns out I was sold
    the wrong thing. This is really a bummer 'cause I actually took
    the motor with to the shop just to make sure I got the right one.
    
    The bummer turned into a double bummer when I realized that I had
    left the prop nut supplied with the engine at home..So, hop in the
    car, drive to 45mins and I'm all set to go..
    
    Check out the plane. One aileron was a bit high and the stablizer
    has a slight twist in it. The rudder was off also. Do adjustments.
    (Stab will have to wait for heat gun..).
    
    Noticed an interesting thing about the rudder servo: Through rudder
    full right and it comes back dead center. Though it full left and
    is comes back a little off (1/8").. ANyone got a clue why ?? and
    how I can fix this ? ( I think it may have to do with the deadband
    of either the servo or the receiver ).
    
    Ok, so onwards to setup the engine (never been run).. Through the
    starter on it and it fires up. One thing about rear intake engine
    is that you can't prime then by putting you fing on the carb.
    A real bitch.. Things are going to be even more interesting when
    I get the cowl. Then you see nothing !!
    
    The show ended shortly therafter when we discover the throttle barrel
    was jamming. Now I had to extend the throttle arm 3/4" so that the
    pushrod would straight back alongside the fuel tank.
    
    The way I figure it, I'm going to make sure the mixture needle
    are backed out and the idel stop is set right. The close the throttle
    and adjust the High speed needle so that the barrel rotates freely
    from 3 turns to 5 turns ( 5 turn is the recommended set up to
    starting engine. I figure it will be turned in about 2 turns to
    lean it ut properly.) Then adjust the low speed mixture. (The
    instructions don't say how to back out sofr setup so I'm going to
    work on a 3 turn (+/- 1) setup.
    
    After all the is done and the barrel turns smoothly, I should have
    no problem with the servo moving things.. Because of the extension,
    I have to make sure this is the case otherwise the arm just bends
    and goes nowhere..
    
    
    Anyone got any comments on whether I'm headed in the right direction?
    
    tx,

    md

    Marc,
    
    If yer' rudder hinges/linkage/pushrod is free and smooth, the problem
    likely resides in the servo.  This is not uncommon, I see it all
    the time.  The ol' Yeller Peril's ailerons are like that.  Amazingly,
    the effect in the air is almost unnoticeable...ya' just fly the
    airplane, giving it what it needs and yer' unaware that anything's
    not returning to neutral.  This, of course, applies to minor incidents
    only; severe cases should most definitely be tracked down and
    corrected.
    
    "Fraid I can't offer you much advice on the engine as I've never
    owned a rear-intake engine (and probably never will for many of
    the reasons/problems you mention).  I should think, however, that
    carb setup should be very similar to front-intake engines....at
    least, that's how I'd approach it 'til it was proven otherwise.    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    
    How much slop is there when you lightly push the rudder back and
    forth?  If there's too much backlash in the linkages you might
    end up with flutter problems, otherwise I concur with Al that
    it shouldn't be noticable in flight.
    
    The only other advice I could give is that most of the problems you
    had could have been found in the shop - I have had the same problem
    with new planes, bringing them to the field when they weren't ready.
    I have gotten into the habit of putting it all together (including
    prop, spinner, EVERYTHING) as if I was going to start it up and
    fly.  Then go through pre-flight check, checking all control
    movements (including throttle).  You probably didn't need anyone
    to tell you this after your experience, but it's easy to say "I
    can take care of that at the field" and then you get there and find
    out you're missing something - aggravating!!!  Good luck on your
    maiden voyage!
    
    Bill
    

>    The only other advice I could give is that most of the problems you
>    had could have been found in the shop - I have had the same problem
>    with new planes, bringing them to the field when they weren't ready.
...
Along those same lines - I have always taken each new plane out to the
back yard for "TAXI PRACTICE".  Even to the point of very fast "it's getting
light" taxies.  Also I have three check lists taped to my flight box.
As best I can recall them here at work they look like the following:

1.  The night before check list
    	This is things like
	Charge the Tx Battery
	Charge the Rx Battery
	Charge the Ni-Starter
	Charge the On-Board Ignition
	Fill the Fuel Tank 
	etc.

2.  The Pack the car check list
    	This is things like
	Radio(s)
	Plane(s)
	Wing(s)
	Wing Struts (I added this after I totaled my Jeep)
	High Start
	Gloves
	Cotton
	Sun Tan Oil
	Lawn Chairs
	Hat
	Camera (In case this is the last flight of something)
	Hammer
	Snacks
	Flight Box
	etc.

3.  The before launch check list
    	This is things like
	Range Check
	Check control surfaces for proper direction
	fill fuel tank
	etc.

Now I admit by bad habit I don't use the last check list.
BUT - I use the first two religiously.
I still forget things but when I do I usually remember to add them
to my check lists.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    re .-1: There is no slop in the linkage that I can tell. Push on
    the rudder and the servo turns. I put in braided wire and supported
    them at every former all the way back.
    
    I did check everything I could, include the throttle movement. Was
    fine at home. Aileron setup Looked fine to me. The twisted stab
    is something I did no know what to look for (now I know !!).
    
    I wasn't really expecting to be able to fly.. The intent was to
    get a second opinion on the plane and try out the engine. If things
    went really well, then fly.
    
    I problems with the throttle arm and carb set-up last year on my
    PT-20. This year, its the same..Arrumph... I spent at least 3 evenings
    just on that hoping to get better results.
    
    If all goes well, I'll re deady for another at the fly-in this
    Saturday.
    
    md

    Re: .51, Kay,
    
    Checklist-1 (night before) says fill fuel tank then checklist-3
    also says fill fuel tank;  is this to top off tank and replace fuel
    spilled in car during transport of plane with a full tank??  ;B^}
    
    Checklist-2, among other things, contains a "hammer."  This is used
    for making precision repairs and adjustments, I assume.  ;B^}  ;B^}
    
    Seriously, checklists are the greatest thing since pull-tabs made
    church-keys obsolete (I'd wager there are some out there who don't
    know what a church-key is).  I absolutely couldn't function without
    checklists, I've become so dependent upon them.  However, as you
    pointed out, all the checklists in the world are useless if you
    don't use them.  I have checklists in a sub-directory of my VAX-account
    for various modeling events I attend, customised to travelling
    distance, contest or fun-fly, etc., etc.  They save my life when
    I travel 500 or more miles to a meet and _know_ I have everything
    I need with me.
    
    Re: .50, Bill,
    
    I agree totally!  I hate nothing worse than going to the field to
    build my airplane; _that's_ what I have a workshop for!  Fact is,
    I refuse to even _go_ to the field unless I'm assured that everything
    is ready and all I'll have to do while there is _fly_!  I continue
    to see, however, guys who come out to the field, spend all day
    "building" their aircraft and _never_do_ get a flight in.  Tsk, tsk,
    tsk!!!  My watchword is "do yer' homework at home and _fly_ when
    you go to the 'flying" field."

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

I know - I noticed all the smiles behind your remarks.

>    Checklist-1 (night before) says fill fuel tank then checklist-3
>    also says fill fuel tank;  is this to top off tank and replace fuel
>    spilled in car during transport of plane with a full tank??  ;B^}

1st one fills the one gallon tank in my flight box.
2nd one fills the 8 oz tank in the plane.
    
>    Checklist-2, among other things, contains a "hammer."  This is used
>    for making precision repairs and adjustments, I assume.  ;B^}  ;B^}

Originally that was for beating the high start stake into the ground.
Seems that I don't need it in the summer tho.  Also last time I was at
Tom's fun fly I broke the hammer trying to pry the stake out of the ground.

I notice you didn't criticize my SNACKS.  In your case that would be
Colorado Cool Aid :-)

Hey - I better start my next years Phoenix check list now.  Believe it or not
I am just starting fiberglassing of the Super Aeromaster so I hope to get
at the Berliner-Joyce soon.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

    Part of your rudder problem is normal deadband in the servo.  All
    servos have some of this to prevent high draw on the battery trying
    to constantly center the servo.  One way to reduce this effect is
    to change the mechanical advantage in the controls.  Move your clevis
    to the hole on the horn that is farthest from the rudder and move
    out on the servo arm on the other end.  This reduces the effect
    of any slop in your linkages becauce a given movement in your control
    cable produces less rudder deflection.  I do this on all of my
    controls.  If I need more control throw, I move to a longer servo
    arm rather than moving the clevis in on the horn.  I have had good
    luck doing this.  Also, some radios have dual rates which let you
    reduce the servo throws that you get for full stick deflection.
    I don't like using this to set my controls up because this amplifies
    servo deadband.  I like to use the maximum servo throws possible
    and I adjust the control gains mechanically rather than turning
    down the dual rates.  The trim controls get very sensitive if you
    run with reduced servo travel.  They move the servos a given amount
    independent of where the rates are set.
    
    Hope this helps
    
    CHarlie
    

    One final suggestion on the deadband of the rudder. You mentioned
    that the control rod was supported, but did you securely glue the
    outer casing to the former? I had the exact same problem this weekend
    and found that the outer nyrod was shifting just a tad. When I glued
    it back in place the problem went away.
    
    Dave
    

    rods are glued at every support.  I managed to addjust the rudder
    by doing exaclty what .-2 suggested.
    
    As far as the carb binding is concerned, it was due to a burr on
    the edge of the slot used for the idel stop screw. I filed it down
    and it turns smooth as silk.
    
    I've even run the engined for about 30mins. The throttle response
    is very good across the whole range. I guess I'm ready to give it
    a try this week end.
    
    md 

    well, I went out this weekend for an other attempt for a maiden
    flight.. 
    
    Weather looked ok at home but when i got to the field, I found that
    the wind was really blowing.. So fine, I'll run the engine through
    an other tank and get final set-up advice from some of th guys there.
    
    
    well, the carb jammed again...I was working on adjusting the hi
    end rpm and throttle response...the analysis of the problem seems
    to indicate that there yet an other burr in the carb housing or
    body and that it becoms noticeble when the engine really get hot.
    (coincident with hi rpm). The throttle runs ok (ie no binding from
    idle to mid-range or when slowly moved down and up and down the
    range. run the engine fulll blast for an extended period and the
    sucker jams.
    
    so its back to the shop and a further check of the carb..
    
    rats !!
    
    md

    Marc,
    
    I was having similar problems with the 7D carb on my O.S. .61 FSR/ABC.
    In fact, I nearly lost the ol' Yeller Peril on account of it when
    the throttle stuck at a setting too fast to land but to slow to
    fly (but that's another story).
    
    Like you, I suspected something wrong with the carb-barrel and
    disassembled the carb several times, each time polishing things
    'til, ultimately, I found that the mere weight of the throttle arm
    would cause the barrel to rotate...now _that's_ smooth!
    
    However, the problem persisted; evertime I'd fire up and the engine'd
    get warm, the throttle'd stiffen and eventually jam.  Then, I
    accidentally discovered what was wrong: I found that I'd been over-
    tightening the clinch nut which retains the carb and this caused
    enough distortion (when hot) that the barrel became jammed in the
    carb-body. 
    
    It may not be the same problem in yer' case but it sounds similar
    enough that you might want to check it out.  Since the above
    experience, I just barely snug the clinch-nut and secure it with
    a drop of ZAP-LOK, Loctite or equivalent.  Lemme' know if this solves
    yer' difugelty.   

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    re .-1 & clinch nut: I think you lost me here. is the the screw
    that keep the carb attached to the engine ? Now I have this one
    small screw that was tightened down pretty good but its on on an
    other section of the carb: The carb is a like a cross:
    
    
                         |   |
                      ___|   |___
           <--to engine                   <-- air intake
                      ---|   |---
                       * |   |
                       ^   ^
                       |   | carb barrel goes here
                       |
                       screw goes here
    
    Is this what you are refering too ?  if so, and if this works out
    to be the source of the problem, well I'll be dipped in S**T !!
    
    BTW: The carb barrel is steel and the carb housing is aluminiun
    
    md

    Marc,
    
    As I recall, yer' running a rear-intake engine so I'm not sure exactly
    how the carb is mounted but yer' sketch is pretty close to what
    I'm referring to.
    
    On the O.S. (and many other brands of front-intake engines) there's
    a stud running through a cast housing just ahead of the crankcase
    cutout which accepts the carb.  The carb is inserted into the cutout
    and aligned, then the nut on the end of this stud (clinch-nut) is
    tightened to retain the carb in position.  I got in trouble by _over_
    tightening this nut to the extent that it distorted the aluminum
    carb-body (when hot) enough to bind/jam the bronze barrel...and,
    it didn't take much tightening to cause this.
    
    Try loosening the nut clear up, then tighten it just barely snug 
    enough to retain the carb and maintain its adjustment, then secure
    the nut with a drop of ZAP-LOC or equivalent and run.  This may
    solve yer' whole problem for you.  Good Luck!   

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    I took the carb apart again last night. Same problem as before.
    (burr along aloong outside edge of throttle stop screw guide). I
    also noted that the screw itself was showing signs of wear. finally
    the inside ig the carb body is also marred where the barrel rotates.
    
    I'm starting to wonder whether the throttle barrel isn't bending
    like a hot-dog in in hot water causing all this grief..
    
    Anyone got a number for the HP US distributor. Otherwise, I', calling
    the factorey in austrai about this one..
    
    md

    Clarence Lee's engine clinic column in the JAN 1988 issue of RCM
    apprenlty list the address of a US distributor. Does anyone ahve
    a copy handy and possibly post it here..
    
    tx
    
    md

    the carb got fixed again last night... I looked at the barrel with
    a magnifying glass and discover this rib right along the edge of
    the stop scrw slot.. I thnk I missed it on the first pass 'cause
    I could see no file marks. I'm not impressed with the steel use
    for the barrel. It's very soft. 
    
    
    Anyway, I also lapped the barrle using talcum powder.. It now tunrs
    even better that before. I also heated the carb to check for binding.
    Looks Ok. 
    
    Now, all I need to do is check it out one more time in the plane.
    
    BTW, this engine can almost rate as an antique: It's known as the
    HP Silver Star.. One of the better engines in its time (late '70s)
    The info I got indicates I have a pylaon racing carb rather the
    the RC carb (the difference is in the number of parts. The PR carb
    only has 4 parts. The RC version has 6 )
    
    md

    I ran the engine last night. no problem with throttle response.
    
    What I did was to run the engine full blast for a couple of mintues
    to warm it up real good then push the stick up & down repeatedly.
    did the same thing at mid range and finally at low rpm. No problem..
    whatsoever..
    
    tonite i dismantle the carb to check it. If all goes well, I get
    to fly the sucker this weekend..
    
    md

    well, I finally did it.. Got a new carb. this one has a SS barrel
    and a spring insert. I also modified the pushrod attachment to be
    a pushrod with a J bend and sna[ link instead on using a extension.
    That way, I will not induce torsion.
    
    I got some help for CHArlie Nelson to adjust the idle mixture and
    he gave the maiden flight. 
    
    The plane flies like charm. a little tail heavy but otherwise very
    predictable. Only needs something like 1/3 throttle to fly properly.
    At full power, the sucker will _MOVE_. I think the guy the though
    a .40 was the right size was being a bit pessimistic. Ad to think
    the kit sez you can build a clipped wing version and stuff a .60
    in the nose.
    
    Anyway, I'm pleased and relieved.  I now plan to get back to flying
    lessons.
    
    will keep you posted on progress.
    
    md

    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Went with instructor last night. Had a ball. This plane is real
    easy to fly and very predictable. when put into a given attitude,
    it stay there. Being big & slow, its reacts in a way that leave
    lots of room for error and experimentation. I recommend it highly
    as trainer.
    
    After almost a year without touching the stick, I found I hadn't lost
    what I had learned. I was pretty nervous though. I don't want to
    lose this one. 
    
    I found I now have a mental picture (as inside my head) of the sticks
    and what they do to the plane. its almost like fly-by-wire. Neat!!
    
    Oh yeah, for those who would plan to build this plane, forget the
    landing gear decorations: They will pop off everytime the landing
    is anything but greased. 

    The engine is real easy to start. I did not have to touch anything.
    Just fill, prime, plug in, flip and awya we go !!
    

    This is story of the month time:
    
    A week ago friday, I took off for a week's vacation. The nigth
    previous,I have gone out and flown again. great fun. even tried
    plying with the rudder. Got a kick out of seeing the tail whip about.
    
    Anyway, mid week come home to my parent's house with call waiting
    from neighbour.. Something about water in the basement....Naaaaaaaahh,
    can'be . Hous is highest in the area and if I get flooed, this is
    major disaster for whole region.
    
    Anyway, call back.. Sure enough, 6" of water in basement due to
    busrt HOT water hose from clothes washer. Firemen are on the scene
    pummping the water out. Heat is apparently something else...
    (BTW, basement is fully finished... We have a right mess here folks.
    Water ran for some 18 hrs and consumed 1/4 tank of oil in the process)
    
    The washer is on first floor, right above workshop.. YUK..
    
    OK, so cut vacation short. call insurence company and drive back.
    
    At the scene of the crime, note that the water drilled a hole through
    the wallboad and flushed water directly onto the plane which was
    also sitting on the floor. WIng has been steamed real good. TYhe
    flght box also got hit
    
    Radio is being sent back to World Engines for service. Amazingly,
    It was still working. The engine is corroded real bad, probably a 
    write-off. (The amount of corrosion is just amazing. All my tools 
    also are shot).The airframe is salvageable.

    
    Hopefully, back in the air in a couple of weeks.. 
    
    
    md

    
    RE: .-1  - OUCH, that one musta hurt.  All I can say is that I went
    	       through a similar week back in January :
    
    		1. My father-in-law has a heart attack, we drop everything and
		   rush to New Hampshire.
    		2. A few days later he's recovering pretty good, the wife
    		   stays up there and I return home with the kids.
    		3. Arrive home to find that the heating system in basement
  		   is leaking, wall-to-wall carpeting is wet.
    		4. Pull up carpeting, dry it out, fix plumbing leak
    		   (after draining entire heating system).
    		5. 2 year old son steps on piece of glass, miserable
    		   next day or two.
    		6. Wife comes home next day, does load of laundry. 
  		   Washer drain disconnected from when I drained the
    		   heating system.  Washer empties two cycles onto
    		   just-dried-out carpeting (~1 inch of soapy water).
		7. While cleaning up mess I bump the table carrying my
    		   CAP-21 project, it falls and punches a 2-inch hole
    		   in the uncovered balsa wing.
		8. father-in-law was going to help babysit the kids
    		   when we took our ski trip to Chamonix, France.  Trip
    		   cancelled.

    Feel any better yet?  Well let me also say that after this bad time
    my luck got really good - almost like I had paid my dues.  We found
    a buyer for our house (had been on market for 6 months) and found
    our perfect home, both at the same time.  Lots of other good things
    have been happening too.  Hopefully the same will happen to you.

    Bill
    
    P.S. Thanks for the reminder to shut off the washer supply before
    going off on vacation - ours is on the second floor!  I've heard
    of several similar accidents.

    Arrumph.. ran into a spot of trouble repairing the water damage.
    
    I've decided to strip the covering off areas most likely to have
    been affected by water. first the wing: removed from the tip to
    the 2nd outboard rib at both ends (couldn't remember which end was
    sitting in the water !). Dry as a bone. Good.
    
    Now the fuse.. This one I new I had something to wory about 'cause
    the stab felt soggy. So remove all covering from tailplane and fuse
    up to back of cabin.  Rudder and stabd ideed still water logged.
    Just wait to dry out. Make sure it doesn't warp. 
    
    The fuse is an other story: I have the ugly brown stuff (mold? mildew)
    growing from F7 to the tail tip. The fuse is also soggy. So I'm
    letting things dry out and I plan to get something from the H/W
    store to treat this junk..
    
    ANyone got any suggestions/ideas ??
    
    tx,
    
    md
    

    Marc,
    
    Try some liquid chlorine bleach; it will kill most any kind of 
    mold/mildew there is.  It may be the chlorine that does it (that's
    what you use to control algae in a swimming pool) or the bleach
    itself...I don't know but it sure works like a champ on the crud
    that forms in the grout of a shower stall; just spray on and wait.
    In a few moments, SHAZAM! it's gone!  

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    yeah, good idea.. I'll dig a spray bottle and go at tonite.. will
    report tomorow on the results.
    
    tx..
    
    md

    got some q-tips & clorox out and swabbed away for about an hour
    last.. The wood is back to looking like wood. Tx, Al, for the tip.
    
    Stab & rudder dried OK. No warping..
    
 
    now to sand & recover.. 
    
    Engine is on order. Should be here in a couple of days. 
    
    World Engine got the RC stuff Monday.. With luck, I'm back in the
    ait in 10 days..
    
    md

    Marc,
    
    Hey great!  Glad the Clorox worked and that I could be of help.
    I can appreciate how maddening this repair must be for you as it was 
    so unnecessary (and totally unrelated to flying).  
    
    BTW, what engine are you gonna' be putting back in the bird?  Hope
    yer' going for something a little more plain-vanilla/friendly than
    the rear-rotor [almost] racing mill you had before.  :B^) 

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    
    	Neat!  I've got the same problem on my Eagle.  All the wood
    is moldy due to "float flyin'".  I'll have to try the Clorox treat-
    ment and give my results.
    
    	What a notesfile...........
    
    
    Ken
    

    re .77 & engine... The insurance is paying for the replacement.
    So I got a HP40R GOLD CUP. Its basically the same thing except its
    now black anodized. 
    
    Why? Well, first of all, I've got the engine mount drilled and fuel tank
    set up for it. I also have the cowling hacked up for the cylinder
    head and muffler. And I just wnat to fly the thing. I really don't
    want to put more work into it (get a new set engine mounts, re locate
    the fuel tank tubes, relocate the throttle pushrod, debug the new
    set-up, etc..)...
    
    Besides, this engine is pretty neat and it keeps the plane real
    quiet (only need 1/3 to 1/2 throttle to fly the sucker). Also plane
    flies for almost 20 mins...
    
    BTW, World engines tells me they expect to have something for in
    about a week.
    
    md

    the wing is all set.. now for the fuse & tail feathers. No sign
    of engine yet..
    
    md

    Engine showed up yesterday. Except for the fact the its all black
    but the head which is gold, the external appearance is identical
    to the Silver Star (that the one I have..).
    
    Also got a HP muffler (comes with internal baffles) and spinner.
    
    The spec say this little beauty is 10% more powerful than the 
    Silver Star.. (Al's eyes just rolled over). Also ways a little
    bit more (this will allow me to shed some of the lead in the nose).
    operating range is from 3.5k to 20k RPM.
    
    Now to get RC box back and a roll of Coverite and I'm back in business.
    
    md
    
    
    
    

    the RC stuff made it back last nite.. UPS showed at the door minutes
    after I opened WE letter telling me they were charging $90
    for the privilege of fixing the servos.. the rest was fine..
    
    The bad news was that they shipped COD and wanted CASH (or money
    order). No plastic, no check..  UPS is coming back tonite.
    
    I plan to burn the midnite oil to get everything back together
    for Sunday.. Tha wasy the CUB can be a backup for the f16 in case
    it fizzles..
    
    md

    well it's all back together..worket 'til 2 on friday & til 1 on
    saturday. Brought the plane to the F16 maiden flght meet but elected
    to stay on the ground. The wind really gusted up after we got there
    and I didn't want to take a chance turn it into toothpicks. I worked
    some on the engine to break-it in..Continued after I got home. All
    I need to do is the final adjustment on the idle and I should be
    ready to fly again.. 
    
    BTW, that engine really pulls. And nice looking too..
    
    I'll probably be out sometime this week. I need to get some serious
    flying done so that I can get to the point where I can fly solo..
    
    md

    Went out last night to try out the CUb after the rebuild form the
    dunk.. Way out of trim but work OK.. All set for tomorow's fun fly..
    
    md