Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    Not.
    
    Mark

    Oh, Not much cop then.. eh.
    
    
    Stu. (Who once had a very old 5 GT ish thing.
    

I had a quick test drive in it, and liked it.

The power comes on at much higher revs than the 5GTT, but is pretty good.

The exhaust note is more "rasping", but not too noisy.

The car feels very solid, no rattles (this car had done 5,900 miles).

The car looks wonderful, and is spacious inside.

The handling feels better with power steering (not too assisted), and a
really good ride.

What I didn't like:

for �500 more, you can have a R19 16V, about as fast, with leccy sunroof,
fuel computer (They take out the switches on the Clio, and make it an external
temperature gauge), and a bit more space. The Clio seems more "cohesive"
though.

    �<<< Note 1654.0 by NEWOA::BOSLEY "What time to go, Nah cant be..." >>>
    
    Stu,
    
    Have you checked out #1051 and #1192 ? There a lot more info there.
    
      1051  NCEIS1::CHEVAUX      25-APR-1990    24  Renault Clio
      1192  VIVIAN::M_ELLAWAY    20-AUG-1990    40  The new Renault Clio &
    						    16v engine
    > 1654   NEWOA::BOSLEY       14-JAN-1992     3  Renault Clio 16v
    
    Roy
    
    BTW Has anyone put a quote in for one of these ? I was wondering what
    they might cost on the scheme. Around the same price as a 19 16v I
    expect.
    

It's certainly not in Wolf's clothing!


Ian

    Re: 1538.336 - New spec  for clio 16v.
    
    This is the first I've heard about this (Elec sunroof as standard
    replacing to tilt only type).
    
    Whilst this is good news for most folks (including Ann!) I'm
    dissappointed.
    
    Why? Well being on the tall side these D@!M electric sunroofs rob you
    of precious headroom.  I was keen to order a Clio next year _because_
    it had a tilt sunroof similar to the one on my Fiesta. I won't know
    until I've sat in a new model to see if this is the case but it looks
    like I may have to look elsewhere. Well done Renault!
    
    I like the idea of the one touch windows though.
    
    Roy

    
    Like the 5 before it, the Clio is a fairly tall car. You'll probably
    find the electric tilt and slide is acceptable.
    
    Mark

    Thanks for the optimism Mark, I'll report back after I've checked it
    out.
    
    When I drove a 5 (GTT) with an electric tilt and slide sunroof I found
    the headroom unacceptable . The same comments apply to the 19 16v.
    
    Roy

    There's a comparison of the new Ford XR2i, Honda Civic 1.6 ESi,
    Mitsubishi Colt Gti 1800, Peugeot 205 Gti 1.9 & Renault Clio 16v in the
    latest issue of What Car (september). The Clio comes out on top overall
    by the magazine reviewers (clio - 5/5, Peugeot, Mitsubishi & Honda -
    4/5, Ford - 3/5), although the 'joe public' reviewers still put the
    Peugeot first.
    
    One thing that cought my eye, at the end of the article was the
    following paragraph :
    
    "Thoughtful detailing such as the remote central locking, the satellite
    radio controls and the outside temperature display further enhance its
    charms. 
    Now add the benefits of lower insurance and a standard-fit alarm, and
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    the Clio edges out the opposition to emerge as our favourite"
    
    I thought the alarm was a cost extra (that's what it says in my
    brochure). Does anybody know otherwise, or is this part of the new
    modifications?
    
    Andy-with-clio-on-order
     

    Andy,
    
    I don't know if an alarm is now to be standard, but I wonder if they
    were refering to the anti-theft device which, when activated, leaves
    an LED flashing on the dashboard. 
    
    Hope you like your new car. Report back with your impressions.
    
    Roy

    Hasn't the clio also got the Renault Anti Thest Protection System
    (RAPS) as standard? on the R19 16V this means by turning a key you can
    cut off the fuel supply to the engine, PRETTY SECURE!!
    
    
    Greg

Re .6

 When are you ordering your car Roy ?

 I test drove the clio 16v last saturday, like you I can only just get into the
car with the "old" manual tilt sunroof. The salesman said that he'd have no
problem getting hold of the old spec car as there are plenty around and
production of the new spec car isnt dew to start until september.

	Barrie. 

re .11

 The clio 16v comes as standard with the RAPS system. The alarm is an optional
extra.

	Barrie.

    re .12
    
    Barrie, Thanks for your interest. It won't be until later next year.
    
    Car fleet said that the Fiesta could be renewed after 2� years because
    of the high mileage I do.
    
    Real sorry to hear that the 5 went missing. It didn't turn up then ?
    
    Roy

    
    
    This RAPS system that cuts the fuel off when you turn the key sounds
    impressive. I can't imagine which manufacturer hasn't thought of
    and implemented this before!
    
    
    Re: Alarm as standard... 
    
    Errors in What Crap reviews are to be expected. 

    I reckon they will be fiitting an alarm as standard, when they put the
    'new' Renault badge on the Clio.
    
    Seems a logical step, they have an alarm and RAPS on the 16v 19
    
    Greg

A guy here in Switzerland had a fuel cut-off fitted to his Sierra when he was
in the UK - he said it cost �180.

Steve

    180 squid??? You could do it yourself for a lot cheaper than that I
    suppose.
    
    Gary.

Hi,

I'm changing my car in January. I've already tried Steve Delany's Citroen
ZX, and it was fine. I also liked the Renault 19 16V.

The really cheap option is the Clio 16V. I've had a quick test drive in it,
and I liked it. What I'd like to do is do a swap with someone over the
weekend.

Does anyone know someone in tha Basingstoke area who is willing to do a swap
for a weekend. If the Autocar & Motor review is anything to go by, I'd like
the car to have done about 9,000 miles!

My current car is a Renault 5 GT Turbo.

Mark Jeffery.

    Join the queue Mark (see 988.25).
    
    These cars are certainly not as popular as the 5GTT used to be.
    
    Everyone must have more money now as the Digital car parks seem to be
    full of 19 16v's and MR2's !
    
    Roy

    Well, I've got one on order but as yet have no delivery date. So if you
    want to drive mine at the Solent you'll have to wait like me :^)
    
    Andy
    

    re. .19 (by TASTY::JEFFERY)
    
    Mark, you say you've had a short test drive of the 16v Clio.
    
    How does it compare in performance and handling with your GTT and my
    Fieast RS Turbo (which you've driven) ?
    
    Roy

Hi,

I drove it for a short time. I'd say that the power came on later in the
revs, but was there all the same. It didn't feel as fast as either of our
cars, but I think that may be perception. Looking at the figures of the
recent review, it seems that the engine doesn't seriously get going until
around about 7000 miles or so.

In terms of handling, I'd say that the car is better than the R5GTT (There,
I've said it!) and Fiesta, and equal to the Citroen ZX and Renault 19.

The ride on the Citroen ZX, Renault 19 and Clio 16V really shows up both
the 5 and the Fiesta. The Clio felt the more "cohesive" car, and I think
looks better inside than the Fiesta, Citroen or 5.

I know two people in the Crescent have a Clio 16V. Would they like to do
a swap for the weekend some time?

Mark Jeffery.

	I have had my Clio for about a month now and have done around 2500 miles,
the engine is now (after drinking a far bit of oil) starting to loosen up and 
show what it can do. It hasn't the punch of the 5 GT turbo so gear change timing
is different. The power really comes on at about 5000 revs upwards. The handling
is superb much better then the 5 and the pre production Fiesta Rs1800 that I had
access to several months ago (Nb the production fiesta is far slower than the 
one I managed to drive..shame!!). If I get a trip down to Basingstoke I will give
you test drivees a shout.

Sean

    Thanks for the reply Sean.
    
    Look me up at Viables some time.
    
    Roy

    Got the new 16v delivered today. The new spec has an electric sunroof
    (which when open goes outside the car like on the Calibra so there's no
    hit on the head-room), alarm as standard (as well as immobiliser) and
    one touch electric window (drivers side). Mine has come with the option
    of "engine having no oil". Time to ring the garage I think (I hope this
    isn't an omen).
    
    Andy

    Well done Andy. Report back and let us know how it compares to your
    previous car.
    
    Good to hear the sunroof doesn't steal any additional headroom.
    The alarm and one touch driver's window are good features too.
    
    Roy

How did you find out the engine had no oil? Not the hard way I hope!

Dougie

    nah, false alarm - stupid user.
    
    Users eh? who needs 'em

    So you thought the little Oil dial worked while the car was in motion ?
    
    So did I ! :-)
    
    

I did too and when I asked the Renault garage they didn't know either...

    Many Renaults and Citroen's come with an Oil level dial. On some models
    this is also an Oil pressure dial - when you first turn on the ignition
    it acts as oil level, and switches to oil pressure once the engine is
    started.
    
    The dial is only useful for indicating the oil level when the engine is
    off. This is because when the engine is running a fair part of the oil
    is being pumped around the system, so the level in the sump drops and
    the dial would indicate a false level.
    
    I imagine that if you turn the engine off, and then turn the ignition
    on, without starting the engine, you would find the oil level is low, but
    rises slowly as the oil makes its way back to the sump.
    
    Andrew

    .32�    The dial is only useful for indicating the oil level when the engine is
    .32�    off. This is because when the engine is running a fair part of the oil
    
    ... unlike Porsches (at least the real ones, the 911) which show you
    the oil level in the oil catch tank permanently. But these are real
    engines ie they have dry sump ....

    re.33  Oh! And I suppose that all of Renault's engines are fake ones!
    
    ps.  I'll take a 610 over a 911 any day.

    
    re -1:
    
    610? Is it some kind of Renault? 0-60mph with 6.0 secs? All Porsches
    go better than that!
    
    
    Hannu

    >> 610? Is it some kind of Renault? 0-60mph with 6.0 secs? All Porsches
    >> go better than that!
    
    Yeah, and my Calibra does 175 mph in all its 12 reverse gears! :^)
    
    Mark

�    >> 610? Is it some kind of Renault? 0-60mph with 6.0 secs? All Porsches
�    >> go better than that!
 
Give or take a tenth for the 968, all current porches do.

mike.

p.s. Mark, have you tried the turbo Calibra yet ?    

    I thought only Italian cars had 12 reverse gears ?
    
    PC :-<       (the old ones are still the old ones)

   >>  Yeah, and my Calibra does 175 mph in all its 12 reverse gears! :^)
   >>  Mark
    
    
    You must be a happy chap then. Way to go, man!
    
    Hannu 8-)
    
    
    

    
    No, not tried the turbo Calibra yet. Have you? I worry I might want one
    if I drive one! :^)
    
    Re .40
    
    It's handy in supermarket car parks! :^)
    
    MArk

�    610? Is it some kind of Renault? 0-60mph with 6.0 secs?
    
    Does the name 'Alpine' mean anything to you ?
    
    (they used to regularly beat 911's in rallying, too)
    
�    All Porsches go better than that!
    
    But not the old Audi coupe 924 thing.

It's not an Alpine it's a Renault A610. The GTA was an Alpine.

    Say what you want and I'll have to recheck the figures for the 610's
    V6 but if not for the exclusivity then for the fact that a 610 is
    a much more civilized car than a 911.
    
    As a matter of fact, I'd go for a R5T2 over the 911.  
    
    --Dale
    

 >>  But not the old Audi coupe 924 thing.
    
    You're right. That ain't real Porsche. 
    
    re -1:
    
    I actually like Renaults, like Clio 16 v and also that fun-to-drive
    5 Turbo.
    
    
    Hannu
    

�                     <<< Note 1654.44 by LEDS::ROBERTSON >>>

�    V6 but if not for the exclusivity then for the fact that a 610 is
�    a much more civilized car than a 911.
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What criteria would you use to arrive at this conclusion ?. I'll guess..

o Engine noise (surely that's a major reason for buying a 911 one of the
		best sounding and performing engines of the moment.)

o Ride quality (Granted. But personally I would be equally annoyed by the
		unyielding cacophony that a fibre-glass body [A610] produces,
		bumps or no.)

Basically a McLaren might be more civilized than a Williams (or v.v.) but
it's a tenuous point with which to rate one above the other. A sports car's
raison d'�tre is to be sporty, a saloon's to be civilized, and never the
twain shall meet.

Mike.

    .44�    V6 but if not for the exclusivity then for the fact that a 610 is
    .44�    a much more civilized car than a 911.
    
    I challenge that.

    
    And can you get a ski rack for a 610?

    
    As this string is the Alpine note, does anyone know who owns the '86
    GTA Turbo seen at Winnersh on Friday? I'm looking for one, & would 
    like to swap stories.
    
           
    Colin

    Are you sniffing something man?
    
    -Dave.

    
    I suspect the GTA Turbo at Winnersh belongs to Barry Gates.
    
    He was telling about his new GTA Turbo just last week.
    
    Mark

�                           -< re: .44  A610 vs 911 >-
�    Are you sniffing something man?
    
    'Tis an extremely valid comparison (but discount build quality).
    
    Especially if both sides could drop their favouritism.
    
    J.R.

    Hi Colin,
    
    Yes, its mine. I've not had it long so I haven't found its limits yet!
    Give me a ring (or send a mail) and we can chat about it.
    
    Cheers,
    Barry. 
    
    Phone 7830-1155 or mail RDGE44::ALEUC1

    I'm not saying the 911 is not a great car, but it is not
    head-and-shoulders above the 610 either.   Both cars are rear-engined,
    with swept rear axles to help with weight distribution. The 610 is 
    one of the few competitors to the 911(maybe not by sales, but by
    design).   To compare the two is quite valid and both vehicles have 
    their plus and minus characteristics.
    
    Dale

No No ! 

Chat about it in 'ere

Puh-leeeeeeease please please please plea......

    .54�                                           Both cars are rear-engined,
    .54�    with swept rear axles to help with weight distribution. 
    
    Yes, but
    
    - the 911 engine is a air-cooled, low mounted, flat-6, dry-sump
    - the Alpine engine is the water-cooled, big, heavy, PRV, V6, wet sump
    
    That makes a BIG difference in handling terms. Try both cars on a wet
    track, there won't be any comparison at all.

    The Performance figures for the A610 are:
    
    250bhp
    Top speed: 165mph
    0-60mph  : around 5 seconds.
    
    and it is cheaper than the 911.

And it gets even cheaper as the years pile on ;-)

    
    Re .59
    
    The best arguement against the Porsche (or a 1 year old one, anyway!)
    yet! :^)
    
    Mark

    yes, in a miracle of automotive engineering, the A610 gets 250 bhp out
    of a 3 litre V6 turbo.
    
    Most modern 3 litre performance engines get that without a turbo.

    re .61
    
    He's fibbing, surely
    
    :-)

    
    My workmate announced proudly that he beated Clio 16 v at traffic 
    lights with his Fiat Uno turbo.
    
    I think fast ready-steady-go:s need some skills, not just a fast
    car! 8-)
    
    Hannu

    
    I once out accelerated a Porsche 911 Turbo in a Renault 12 Estate.
    
    I suspect it had something to do with the fact that the Porsche driver
    wasn't interested in pulling away quickly.
    
    Mark

    
    re -1:
    
    Yes right, but that was just his story; he claimed another driver
    tried his best at lights. If the story is true or not, I am
    not so sure. I think Clio should be much faster.
    
    
    Hannu

   >> I think Clio should be much faster.
    
    I don't know. I guess in the traffic lights GP, the fact that you need
    to get the 16v Renault engine up to revs before it really flies might
    give the Turbo Uno the edge.
    
    Mark

The Uno turbo is easily the match for the Clio in an all out dash, and it
beats the Clio's in gear acceleration times by virtue of its turbocharger.

Mike. (who also knows the Clio is by far the better car and doesn't want
want this fact made aware to him ;-) )

    Absolutely.
    
    A turbo charged engine has lots of torque. Exactly the opposite of a 16
    valve engine. The 5GTT is a winner at this game. 

    >> The 5GTT is a winner at this game. 
    
    Unless you try and race a Marcos Mantula with a 3.9 litre V8! :^)
    
    Mark

My mate Gary ( [BELFST::FLANAGAN] who's now back at Uni' doing his fourth
year and noted regularly in 'ere by all accounts ) and I were in his 
modified (ooerrr) RS Turbo one night and we ( I navigated.....) trounced
a 3 litre Merc. May have been a 24-valve an'all.

Just thought I'd tell you that. 

    .70�    Unless you try and race a Marcos Mantula with a 3.9 litre V8! :^)
    
    You win Mark.
    
    Let's try the Venturi 260 with its 440Nm @2000rpm ...

�        Let's try the Venturi 260 with its 440Nm @2000rpm ...
     				            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^]

Hang on a [Newton] moment, what's that in old money ?

You sound like you once worked for Ford's marketing dept. They would never
give power outputs in horses and pounds feet, 'cause they were both
lamentably low ;-).

    .73�Hang on a [Newton] moment, what's that in old money ?
    
    It's 42kgm (kilogram.metre) which is approximately 440Nm (Newton.metre)
    or 44daNm (decaNewton.metre).

    .73�You sound like you once worked for Ford's marketing dept. They would never
    
    Almost true. I once worked for DEC's marketing dept.

    
    Well, my things got a turbo, and 250 bhp, but it couldn't pull the skin
    off a rice pud at the lights. Hopefully when the guarantee runs out in
    5 months time, and I fit one of those chips, things might improve.
    
    Nothing below 3500 rpm, then WHAM!

    Nope, not kidding. Any standard 24v 3 litre these days is giving
    200hp. The extra 50hp comes cause it's got a Porsche or Merc or BMW
    badge.
    
    I think the absolute winner would have to be the 348 or the NSX, but
    the M5 would certainly be up there.

��    Nope, not kidding. Any standard 24v 3 litre these days is giving
��    200hp. 
��    ^^^^^

Talk about moving the goalposts !  check out .61 again readers....

��    The extra 50hp comes cause it's got a Porsche or Merc or BMW badge.

I know of no 3 litre engine made by the above that produces 250bhp (granted
that the 968 comes close)

��    I think the absolute winner would have to be the 348 or the NSX, but
						       ^^^
Are we still talking 3 litres here or......  

�    the M5 would certainly be up there.
         ^^
.......is it now 3.8

Mike.

>>    The extra 50hp comes cause it's got a Porsche or Merc or BMW badge.
    
>     I know of no 3 litre engine made by the above that produces 250bhp 
      (granted that the 968 comes close)
    
      How about the new BMW M3 ?
    
      280bhp and if I remember right it is 2.5 litre 24 valve
      (not over 3 litres anyway) !!!
    
      How much gives the new 3 litre V8 used on new 530i and 730i ?
    
    
      Juha
    

��      How about the new BMW M3 ?

Och, I can never win an argument :-(
Congrats Juha, 286bhp from 2990cc. Sticky bun on its way...

BTW, the 3 litre V8 engine in the 730i puts out 218bhp (maybe torque was
the objective ?)

Interestingly enough, the 4 litre V8 puts out 280bhp - less than the M3...

Mike.

Please move this to another topic!

Mark (interested in Clio 16V notes)

    Further to Mark's suggestion can you take the discussion about high
    performance cars to note 1946 (A610 vs 911).
    
    Thanks
    
    Roy (mod)

    The local Renault dealer has brought in one unit of the 16V Clio to
    test the market.  But they are struggling to find space to fit the
    air cond compressor.
    
    The car is not available for test drives probably because of the air
    cond problem.

    I have just had a Clio 16v on appraisal from Renault UK for 3 days
    and thought some of you might be interested in my thoughts and 
    how it compares to my existing car which is a Fiesta RS Turbo.

    Ironically, I particularly wanted to try one with the latest spec with
    an electric sunroof but was supplied with one with the old spec pop-up
    type. Well beggars can't be choosers as they say but I wanted to see
    if I could live with the restricted headroom that comes along with the
    leccy roof. 

    First impressions were that the clutch felt very heavy and that the 
    outside air-temp display was glaring at me all the time (less of a
    problem at night as the display can be dimmed).

    Performance was better than I expected. Obviously I missed the low down
    acceleration that the turbo gives me but above 4000 revs it really
    flies and sounds superb unlike the Fiesta which is very harsh at high
    revs. 

    The equipment levels were very high. Some of the standard features
    that I liked include remote central locking which activates alarm,
    seperate imobiliser lock in the glove box, electric windows (one touch
    on driver's side), elec/heated door mirrors, outside air temp display
    and best of all - remote volume control for the stereo.

    It has no less than 3 oil gauges - level, temp and pressure. The
    instruments were a little aukward but ok when you get used to them.

    The door pillar is quite wide and consequently its difficult to see
    anything over your right shoulder. This lack of vision could be cured
    by fitting a blind-spot mirror.

    The seat was comfortable but seriously lacking in height. Even with the 
    headrest at its highest position it only reached the top of my neck
    (OK so I'm taller than most). Its a coincidence that Graham has made
    similar observations in #1966.0.

    Would I go for one ? I would like to but the headrest issue is very
    important to me and this one thing would prevent me going for it.

    I would like a change from the Fiesta but as I'd like to stay with 
    the Recaro seats it looks like the RS 1800 is on the cards. Now wheres
    Ford's number...

    Roy

    ROy,
    
    Hmm, I've had a 5 Turbo, and I'm now on a 19 16v, both my clutches have
    felt heavy. Perhaps it's some kind of design feature.
    
    Greg

�    Hmm, I've had a 5 Turbo, and I'm now on a 19 16v, both my clutches have
�    felt heavy. Perhaps it's some kind of design feature.
    
    Like poor design of cable routing on right-hand drive conversions ?
    
    J.R.

    
    I think some clutches that can handle much power feel always heavy.
    
    
    Hannu

    
    Re.87
    
    Obviously very experienced ... :-)

    
    Eh Mod!
    
    Was that called for?
    
    BTW, it's Colin Kennedy using Sallys account here ....

Hi,

About 3 months ago, I rang the driver of a Clio 16V in
the Crescent to try and arrange a car swap, and he wouldn't
let me! Anyway, I recently noticed that the car was in
the car park for a while, and it turned out, that he has
been made redundant!

So, I borrowed the Clio for a test drive, with the
intention of saying that the car was too small, and
ordering a Chamade 16V.

Anyway, I've fallen in love with the car, and even though
it is too small, I think I'll take it over for 3 months,
and then go for a Chamade when I need the space.

The car is really well made, goes very well, with a smooth
free revving engine, with reasonable torque, beautiful handling,
and any other superlatives you can think of!

Mark.

    Accoring to todays Autocar & Rumour, Renault are going to introduce two 
    new Clio models (in March I think).
    
    One will be the new top-of-the-range Clio Williams, a 150bhp version of
    the 16v with special transfers etc, and the other will be a 8v
    injection version , the RSi, which will have the same bodywork as the
    16v , but without the bonnet bulge. The RSi is introduced to compete
    with the like of the Peugeot 106Xsi, Fiesta XR2i etc.
    
    Andy
    

    I've jut spoken to a Renault dealer about the forth coming Clio
    Williams. What a wicked little motor this will be. 150bhp 2 litre 16v
    engine.
    
    It will be available in September (not july/august as mentioned in
    A&M).
    
    The price will be about the same as the standard 16v but it won't have
    many electric goodies in it (to cut don't weight and keep the price
    down). It won't come with a sunroof or remote radio controls. It will
    have the seats from the 19 16v which give better support for taller
    drivers and will be colour coordinated 'electric' blue with distinctive
    gold alloys.
    
    The list price will not be available until the car is so its not
    possible to submit a quote yet.
    
    If you want one of these beasties I suggest you make friends with a
    Renault dealer as only 300 are coming into this country and will be the
    car to have.
    
    "What car do you drive ?"
    
    "Oh, a Williams Renault!"   (Well a Renault Williams would be more accurate)
    
    Royston

    Is there anyone out there who has driven both the Clio 16V and the Clio
    RSi? I really would like to know if the 16V is worth the extra cash
    (about 100.000 BFr here in Belgium). 
    
    A local Renault dealer actually told me the RSi has more low end grunt
    and therefore is the easier car to drive. He also told me you could
    easily get 16V horsepower on an RSi by fitting a new chip in the
    injection/ignition black box and by fitting an aftermarket exhaust.
    
    Any opinions on all this?

    I haven't driven any of these 2 cars myself. Friends that I usually
    trust tell me that you want to avoid the 16V. Either pickup the
    Williams or the RSi. On the torque topic, they also confirm that the
    RSi has more muscle than the 16V below 4k rpm. The Williams has a 2litr
    engine which also means more flexibility.
    
    The 16V was a good base for building race cars (Rally GrA and GrN) but
    not really designed to be used without preparation.

    
    Has anyone driven a Clio Williams 1 or 2 as I'd be interested here
    what one goes like.
    
    
    ..Simon