Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    Somewhere in this notes conference Mark, is a suggested calendar
    for WSC. Brands was back as was Spa and a few other venues. It 
    looked really provisional though. More a JMB wet dream than a
    reality.
    
    Is it true that Jaguar will lose Silk Cut sponsorship? It seems
    very likely since the buggercrats at the EEC will soon not allow
    tobacco sponsorship on TV, but it'll be tough finding new sponsors
    in the current economic climate.
    
    The Jaguar sponsorship deal in 1989 was �15m, with �1m coming
    from Jaguar cars and the rest from Silk Cut and Castrol.    

    Will Nissan not return next year? 
   
    A euro-series of both manufacturers and privateers with just a 
    'limited fuel'/weight formula would be attractive to me. In the
    old C1/C2 mould. Much better than the current farce anyway.

    Richard.

    
            <<< MARVIN::DISK$TOOLS:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CARS_UK.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -< CARS_UK conference >-
================================================================================
Note 1387.89           1991 World Sports Cars Championship             89 of 122
NEWOA::SAXBY "Aye. When I were a lad...."            24 lines  30-AUG-1991 08:50
                        -< Spa and Brands back for 92? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    A proposed 1992 calendar is in this  week's MN.
    
    It is :-
    
    Eastern Creek (AUS)	22/3/92
    Suzuka (J) 12/4/92
    Monza (I) 26/4/92
    Silverstone (GB) 10/5/92
    Jarama (E) 24/5/92
    Le Mans (F) 25/6/92
    Brands Hatch (GB) 26/7/92
    Nurburgring (D) 23/8/92
    Spa (B) 3/9/92
    Mugello (I) 27/9/92
    ??? (MEX) 18/10/92
    Autopolis (J) 1/11/92
    
    It'll be interesting to see which races are on the final calendar.
    
    If it stays as shown, next season could be expensive! :^)
    
    Mark
    
    

    
    That was the very provisional calendar...:^)
    
    I've just been sent the 'likely' calendar as released by FISA a couple
    of weeks ago...It'll follow.
    
    Mark

    World Sports Car Championships, 1992
    
    The provisional calendar for the 1992 championships have been announced
    by FISA:

    29/03 .... Suzuka, Japan                  19/07 .... France (vtba)
    26/04 .... Jarama, Spain                  23/08 .... Nurburgring, Germany
    10/05 .... Monza, Italy                   20/09 .... Mugello, Italy
    24/05 .... Silverstone, Great Britain     18/10 .... Mexico City
    20-21/06 .... Le Mans 24-hrs, France      01/11 .... Autopolis, Japan
    
    Thanks to Ken Merrick for digging this out for me.
    
    Mark

    
    No Spa, no Brands, no comment.

    
    Porsche have been secretly (ish) testing a 962C with Walter R�hrl.
    
    Apparently they took great care to keep the engine covered to keep
    away prying eyes.
    
    Could Porsche be planning to return to Group C with their failed F1
    engine? Or maybe they're just testing the engine for future F1 use,
    or maybe it's a new road car engine....
    
    Who knows. But one thing is certain Porsche belong in Sportscar racing.
    It'd be good to see them back.
    
    Mark

You folks really think that Mercedes is ready for F1 ? Their engine seems to be
a failure, their drivers, although showing promise, very inexperienced, and
their skills at team management still to be seen. Would they really be happy
buying into someone else's chassis ?

Dave.

    
    In the turbo era, Mercedes proved to be the best team, the best
    car and the best engine. I think even now they'd make a whole
    lot of teams look amateur in comparison.
    
    Since this coming year will again be a rag tag and bobtail season,
    Mercedes might decide to move into F1 now if that's there eventual
    destination. Then they can get some experience whilst building a
    whole new car and engine for the 1993 season.

    However, as they have spent a good deal of time and money ensuring
    drives for Schumacher and Wendlinger next season it doesn't seem
    likely to me that Mercedes will participate in F1 next year. I think
    it more likely that they will enter one car in the WSC for Schlesser
    and Mass. This would allow them to compete at Le Mans with more than 
    one car under whatever rules (turbo/na) are eventually decided and
    keep down the cost of the season. 
    
    If they do this, I would expect them to do some reliability work
    on the engine (Japan showed it now has enough power) and some work
    on the 291 tub, but concentrate most of their efforts on building a
    new F1 car for 1993. This would also mean that they could make a
    decision during next year on wether they needed to build a whole
    new 3.5 engine or wether the current 3.5 could be improved enough
    to be competitive in F1.
     
    Richard.
    
    

    
    I can't see Mercedes racing in F1 in 1992, but they could easily spend
    a year testing and preparing for a season in 1993.
    
    They won't use their Group C engine in F1 (it's completely wrong),
    hence the possible link with Ilmor. As for them not using someone
    else's chassis, that's exactly what they've been doing all through
    their Group C programme. Unlike Porsche, they seem to understand their
    limitations.
    
    I'm not sure F1 is the showcase that a company like Jaguar or Mercedes
    will really benefit from, but Mercedes certainly seem to be determined
    to travel that road.
    
    Mark

    
    
    Mr moderator..please resubmit .6 as a new topic..I used reply instead
    or write...apologies.
    
    
    Tom

    Re. reply instead of write
    
    I think the command should be :
    
    	MOD NOTE 1584.6/note=1587.0
    
    	(or perhaps    /note=L)
    
    and should work if issued by the originator of the note,
    or by a moderator (with priv enabled).
    
    J.R.

    The WSCC has been canned but Le Mans will contine.
    
    This was caused by Merc. pulling out so Jag had ``no competition'' so
    they pulled out etc.

    
    What'll race at Le Mans? Does anyone else know anything more?
    
    Is this just posturing, or is it for real? Will the Euro championship
    go ahead? Where do Peugeot fit in the scheme of things? 
    
    More news needed!
    
    Mark

    
    Re .16
    
    Is that a seriously proposal or just Autosport rumour mongering?
    
    Maybe the old fuel economy cars will be back at Le Mans?
    
    Looks like MGB and Balls-up-estre got their wish in the end.
    
    Mark

    Disbanding the WSC is the best news I've heard in ages. Hopefully we
    can now get back to the serious business of 1000km racing. Now
    thats what sportscars are all about IMHO !!

    This news is close to the end of the world but if what Autosport print
    is to be believed then a forseeable result. Le Mans with Touring
    cars???? a real championship with real cars really racing that is
    nothing to do with Fisa.
    
    
    	I hope something get sorted soon , What will I do about the beer
    trip to france in june.....
    
    
    
    

    
    Touring cars at Le Mans, eh?
    
    Thrilling stuff! Cars which'll top 150 mph on the straight :^(
    
    Maybe Le Mans will stand apart and continue to be a Sportscar race?
    Maybe the dinosaurs (you remember those unpopular cars where Jaguar,
    Mercedes, Lancia, Porsche, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda and sundry minor makes
    all took part) will return. My contempt for the FISA authorities knows
    no bounds, but maybe something can be salvaged from this disaster.
    
    I don't believe that a touring car race at Le Mans will be the
    long-term saviour of the classic event.
    
    Mark

    I think this has been said before, From what I read in autosport last
    week nothing short of the second coming was going to satisfy the likes
    of Mercedes and Jaguar. Well what about returning to something that
    keep the constructors happy the spectators at the trackside and an
    intrest in the series, 1000 kms and the group c1 and c2 formula.
    Without execption all the teams have a car that will drop straight into
    the class. Not, I'm sure, what the teams want, but what will teams like
    Joest, Kremer, Brun, Euro racing etc etc do, all go to IMSA????? The
    3.5 atmo jobbies won't sell, they won't really do the job in Imsa, they
    must just be expensive white elephants. On the other hand who will buy
    all the 962's that are sitting in mothballs. The cost of developing a
    3.5 car is by far more money than teams  other than big names like jag
    etc will not be able to raise. With the state of affairs in sportscar
    racing who in their right mind will pump in the money that is required
    to put a team on the road, what benifit would a sponsor get out of a
    championship that has no real following from the spectators, television
    or real intrest from manufactures. 
    
    
    As for Le Mans, I would expect some sort of a race , touring cars
    ??????? who knows, but baring in mind people like Aston Martin only
    came back for that 1 race and the esteem that a win at Le Mans is held.
    Apart from the rantings and ravings of a complete moron which have
    depressed the grid, when was the last time that there was not a very
    healthy and full grid and in point of fact, can anyone remember the
    last time Le Mans had trouble filling a 56 car grid?????? I would think
    that most people , manufactures, sponsors, spectators would see a win a 
    Le Mans as more value than some half baked championship that stood for 
    diddly squat.  

    I've always thought that this stupid 'bodied-F1' championship had no
    reason to be. General public did not like it either.
    
    Le Mans and other 24h or 1000km races will either continue or reappear
    I hope.

Maybe we can get rid of the "Balestre chicanes" on the back straight at Le Mans
while we're at it.

--PSW

    
    It looks as if there will be a return to the 1990 regs (Turbos, V12,
    Rotaries, 3.5 litres, etc, etc) and there will not be a championship as
    such, but a 'series' of races. The duration of these races will be left
    to the organisers' discretion, but 500-1000km races are thought likely.
    
    The privateer teams seem quite pleased about the outcome, but Mercedes,
    Jaguar and Peugeot (also Spice) seem pretty unhappy about the end of 
    the WSC. Hopefully this sensible set of rules will be allowed to
    continue, but that will remain to be seen. Another side effect of this
    'series' may be that the obscure races will disappear to be replaced 
    by races in countries where people enjoy watching sportscar racing.
    
    This news was gleaned from Motoring News.
    
    Mark

    Was that Jag win shown on ScreenSport yesterday really live, or
    just a recording of a live race ??? (I didn't manage to hear what
    was going on due to the antics of the two youngsters !!!)

    seeing as you say it was on screensport the answer is obvious . No!!!
    
    I missed what ever it was but the last round of wsc was October 27th.
    Anyhow the last jag win was sometime ago so it must have been well old.
    
    Garry

re.26:

The Jags did win a race in Japan about a week ago.

/Dave.

    That was the one, Japan. Either that or most of the oriental population
    was in the crowd :-)

    
    That was the final round of the Japanese Sportscar Championship, and it
    wasn't live.
    
    The giveaway was the fact that although the cars were Silk Cut purple
    the sponsorship was all (err, can't remember the name)...The same
    sponsor as the GREEN Jaguar at Le Mans. :^)
    
    Mark

    The sponsor of the japanese Jaguar at Le Mans was SUNTEC. sighs of ' Oh
    yeh , I remember'.
    
    
    Garry

    Now for something serious.
    
    
    	last night , god knows why, I looked at the motorsport page on
    Ceefax, There was a page on sportscars! There is a meeting, can't
    remember if its this week or next, to try to sort the mess that is left
    out. It appears the manufactures are not near happy about the situation
    and have desided to do something about it. I believe that peugoet are
    the driving force behind it with , all the other manufactures that
    raced this year and many private teams also saying they will turn up.
    The meeting is in paris.  Lets hope that something sensible will come
    out of the meeting. I have a feeling that it will be a much toned down
    championship , if there is going to be a championship, of 500 and 1000K
    races. I can't see Fisa being really serious about sportscars if they
    thought a F1 car with a full body work could ever last 24hrs, It would
    be some damed fine engine that lasted 24hrs.
    
    
    Garry

    Several bits:
    
    - the negative vote on the 1992 WSCC by the workgroup still needs
      endorsement by FISA (and FIA of course). That will (or will not) happen
      at next meeting on 5th Dec.
    
    - Jaguar (Walkinshaw) and Mercedes (Neerpasch) are obviously playing
      games. They were (still are ?) behind the current rules. But they're
      obviously interested in F1 also. 
    
    - In case the WSCC is cancelled and replaced by whatever type of racing
      people want to setup they will both have spare cars for sale (both TWR
      and SAUBER have plenty of chassis that are there waiting)
    
    - Needless to say, Porsche teams (Brun, Kremer, LLoyd, etc), Spice,
      Mazda, Nissan, etc ... also have plenty of equipment available.
    
    - Only PEUGEOT and TOYOTA have firmly confirmed their participation in
      the 1992 WSCC, but only if the N/A 3.5 ltr engines are to be used.

    
    	Anyone know what happended in this big conflab Friday ?
    
    
    	Is there a championship , if so what sort.
    
    
    
    	I did read in autosport last week that Jean Todd was dead keen that
    whatever happened is should be 3.5 litre only and that was all he was
    looking at racing.  Can't he see that  it is since Fisa started to 
    piddle about with F1 MK II that its all went down the tubes,and a less
    expensive championship with longer races is what is needed to boost the
    grids.
    
    Garry
    . 

Wasn't Jean Toldt head of the Puegeot team that ran the 205 turbo 16 in
group B rallying? I seem to recall the formula got pulled out from under them
that time as well at short to no notice, and they withdrew from the sport.
I'd hate to loose the Peugeot group C team..... lovely looking cars, and a
team that is beginning to get its act togeather.

Toldt must be wondering what he has to do to avoid FISA pulling the rug out
from under him!

From reading last weeks Autosport, and hearing about the handling of the
meeting where group C was canned, it brought back fond memories of the 
antics of the dreaded Jean Marie...  Mosley may oppose him in elections,
but he still seams to be a FISA burocrat at heart. 

At least Balastre always faced the press, rather than leaving by the window!!!

Terry

>>that time as well at short to no notice, and they withdrew from the sport.
    
    You're certainly right about Jean Todt getting 'stuffed' before.
    
    They didn't exactly withdraw from the sport when Group B was banned.
    They had nothing suitable for Group A (and still don't) so decided to
    play around with the supercar and entered the rally-raid events with
    it.  Of course, it was later re-bodied to become a 405, but it was
    still the same vehicle underneath.
    
    The success of the Group B car certainly helped in the company's
    recovery.  As for Paris-Dakar winning, that is largely ignored in
    the UK, but I gather it is widely covered in France.  So, in these
    two cases, competition success performed its aim of gaining publicity
    for the car.  I don't see how Group C, or F1, will have such an obvious
    effect on publicising a company's products, since the race vehicles are
    clearly not related to the salesroom choices.  Then again, Honda will
    have us believe that their little shopping car models are closely
    related to the Formula 1 beasties that use their engines !   ;-)
    
    J.R.

    John,
    
    The 405 was actually quite different in detail to the 205. The 205,
    as you say, started life as  a Group B rally car (maybe THE Group B
    rally car), but the 405 took all Peugeot's experience of 'raids' and
    rolled it into one car. The Citroen ZX Rallye IS very much a rebodied
    405, although there are further improvements in there.
    
    Mark

>>    The 405 was actually quite different in detail to the 205. The 205,
    
    Yes, I didn't mean they were actually 'the same', but that the
    rally-raid vehicles were derived from the Group B machine.
    
    Obvious change was increased wheelbase, for stability and to allow for
    large enough fuel (and water?) tanks to be fitted.  The engine was
    detuned somewhat.  Gearing would obviously be different, suspension
    changed to cope with greater stress and longevity. and on and on...
    
    If you've read Ari Vatanen's autobiography, he expresses a lot of faith
    and gratitude in the Peugeot team.  Also mentions that when testing for
    Paris-Dakar, he was performing long-jumps of something like 75 metres 
    in the car !   That figure could be wrong (blame my memory), but
    whatever it was, it was most certainly impressive.  Another point,
    when still recovering from his near-fatal accident, Peugeot went to
    the trouble of rigging up some form of automatic clutch on a 205T16
    to allow him to get back to driving it before his leg was fully fit.
    
    
    Peugeot certainly managed to put together a competent rally (and
    rally-raid) team and vehicle.  As for Group C, I don't follow it,
    so couldn't know if they did so well in that form of motorsport.
    
    J.R.
    
    PS They also did extremely well at Pikes Peak

I can't think of any reason why Peugeot couldn't have produced a very good
Group A car if they'd wanted to.

    
    Depends how hard they want to try.
    
    Only Ford have succeeded, thus far, of the BIG manufacturers in 
    producing a 'decent' Group A rally car. Toyota are big, but really
    have taken a low(ish) volume model and rallified it, FIAT group use
    the small Lancia concern to build a decent rally car.
    
    It'll be interesting to see if the Calibra/Cavalier model is
    competitive since it will be only the second top flight (aimed at it
    anyway) mass-produced (based) rally car.
    
    It would appear that taking a basic family hatch/saloon and bolting
    in 4WD and a Turbo is NOT all that is required to make a decent Group
    A car. Obviously Peugeot/Citroen don't possess such a model.
    
    Mark

    
    Group A also requires that a turbo is standard on the productyion
    car if one is to be used in Group A? If so , PSA are not in the
    running....

    
    True. It's all down to developing a model that suits the regs.
    
    I think Pug claimed at the time that it would cost many times more
    to develop a Group A rally car than the Group B car.
    
    Mark

    
    Well, it looks like this note could be the 'maybe the WSCC 1992 after
    all' note fairly soon. 
    
    Latest report (gleaned from MN) is that a 3.5 litre (only) formula will
    go ahead as the new WSCC. Up to 25 cars are forecast for all world
    championship rounds (only Merc having dropped out), while others are 
    expected to contest the FIA Euro cup.
    
    Le Mans will be exclusively 3.5 litre (Oh yeah?) and there are rumours
    that an engine change DURING the race will be allowed (Can't you just
    see it - Here comes the leading Jaguar in for a change of driver, pads 
    and engine!). Maybe SKY will be showing the WSCC on the comedy channel
    next season!
    
    Mark

    I have just come back from town having got my weekly shot of autosport.
    Sure look promissing but nothing more that that.
    
    
    The teams met in paris last Friday at Peugeot with Jean Todt. The out
    come was an entry of 26 or more cars but there were no firm guarentees
    that those who said they would  field cars will when it counts. The
    general motion of the meeting was armed with the entry list ( still to
    be ratified) to go to the Fisa with a proposal to reinstate the
    championship as as advertised for 1992, 3.5 litre only. The vote went
    12 for 3.5 only and 7 for a turbo atmo mix as per this year. The only
    real variation from the norm ,baring in mind that cars like the
    Jag, peugeot and any of the other expensive sprint cars, would probably
    blow up long before the end of the 24 hours at Le mans , that teams
    should be allowed to change the engine once during the race. The rest
    remains a 3.5 litre class of 500kms duration.
    
    JMB has as a matter of course poked his bit nose in again and claimed
    that the meeting was illegal as the sportscar commision has been
    disolved. I suppose that he'll send the heavy mob out and slap a fine
    on those team managers who turned up for attending a deflamatory and
    illegal meeting. 
    
    
    
    The provional entry is as follows , that is assuming that Fisa
    reinstate the championship on December 5.
    
    
     . Peugeot   	2x factory cars
     . Jaguar    	2x factory cars and/or 2 private entries
     . Toyota    	2x factory cars
     . Mazda	 	2x factory cars
     . Euro racing      2x lolas
     . BRM 		2 cars
     . Brun		2 cars
     . Mussato	        2 cars ( 3.5 Lancia LC2's ???????)
     . RM motorsport    2 spices
     . Kremer           1 car
     . ALD	  	1 car
     . Konrad		1 car
     . Citra sport      1 car
     . Allard           ( four customer cars)
    
    	In addition the the following were promised for the FIA cup.
    
     . ROC 		1 car
     . Chamberlain	1 spice
     . Euro Racing 	1 customer car
     . Spice		3 further privateers
     
    
    	That totals 32 cars entered with a possible further 2 jaguars if
    that entry turns out to be 2 factory and 2 customer.
    
    Garry

    Musatto are supposed to be building a new 3.5 litre car for next
    season, although there may be (I guess) some Lancia bits in there
    somewhere.
    
    Mark

    For me the problem is not lack of entrants (after all, the great races
    of the past only involved 2 manufacturers Ferrari-Ford, Ferrari-Maserati,
    Jaguar-Mercedes, ...) but lack of spectators.
    
    The 1991 races were run in front of a few hundred/thousand mostly
    non-paying spectators.
    
    Who cares about 430km races ? The big crowds go to Le Mans 24h,
    Nurburgring 1000km (the real one), Daytona 24h, Brands 1000km, ...
    
    What Todt is doing is just trying to please the "bean counters" who
    have supplied large sums of money.
    
    Spectators are not considered at all. I thought Mosley and friends had
    made a sound reflection when they proposed to cancel a totally
    unsuccesfull championship (in terms of spectators).
    
    When are we going to see the long awaited return of the endurance
    championship ?

    sorry chaps I miss lead you all a bit with the entry yesterday. The
    illegal meeting was the one on the 11th where the championship was
    cancelled . Does that mean that the championship is not
    cancelled???????
    
    
    
    	puzzled of basingstoke
    

    
    Let me be the first to cheer the arrival of the 1992 calendar and
    some sssshh...
    
    1000km races....
    
    But before I get carried away just let me shout 
    
            "WOT NO SPA" and "WOT NO BRANDS"
    

    April 
    05           Autopolis           Japan             500k
    26           Monza               Italy            1000k

    May
    10           Silverstone         Great Britain     500k
    24           Jarama              Spain             500k
    
    June
    21/22        Le Mans             France            24hrs
    
    July
    19           Donnington          Great Britain    1000k
    
    August
    02           Nurburgring         Germany          1000k
    30           Suzuka              Japan            1000k
    
    September
    13           Mexico City         Mexico           1000k
    
    October 
    04           Jerez               Spain            1000k
    
    
    Totals:  10 Races : 1 * 24 hrs,   6 * 1000kms,  3 * 500kms

    
    For this calendar to become official, 20 cars must be declared before
    31st January 1992.
    
    

    
    Yo! And 2 races in Britain (which will mean I don't need to go to
    Silverstone again! :^)).
    
    Pity about Spa and Brands though. I guess even the Sportscar drivers
    wimp out at the thought of driving on a REAL circuit these days! :^(
    
    Mark

I like what I see, but have pugeot and toyota signed up for this? Last I heard
their position was NO 1000km races. They say their cars aren't designed for
it and they wanted to stick with 500km?

Or perhaps this is truely the middle way, start the year with mainly 500km
races, then LeMans, then on to 1000km races, giving these teams tome to 
migrate their cars to the requirements of the new race distance.

Any word yet on what rules they have invented to try to get a few of the 
3.5 litre cars accross the line at LeMans? Are they still proposing the 
2 engine rule?

Terry

    
    According to VTX, Peugeot, Mazda and Toyota are the only teams
    confirmed for the WSCC next year. However, there appear to be a number
    of teams committed to running next year. Jaguar (in works or private
    form - Ecuire Ecosse?), BRM, Euroracing (2 Lolas), Musetti and a number
    of others.
    
    The championship needs 20 entrants to go ahead, but who wants to watch
    a race with 20 cars in it?
    
    Mark

Well I'm glad to hear that Pug etc have agreed to the 1000km format. I've
seen the new BRM in the current Autosport, and it looks quite good.....
Interested to see how long it takes to get a completely new V12 engine
sorted.

I also noted in Autosport that Sauber are still testing their WSC chasis,
and have even been working on a 192 model? Could it be that Sauber will go

back to running as a privateer, or perhaps that they may start supplying
coustomer teams? At this rate of supply, by the end of the 92 season there 
could be a body of 3.5 litre cars to match the existing Porche coustomer
car brigade....

Interested to see what the full reg.s for next year will turn out to be.

Terry

    
    Most people know Sauber as the team which worked with Mercedes, but 
    before that they were, indeed, a customer car builder. Does anyone 
    remember Stuck in the C7 (or was it a C6?) at Brands in the rain in
    (I think) 1983?
    
    It sounds as if Mercedes and Sauber have done a deal that will leave
    the Swiss team 'comfortable', but I can't see them sitting around doing
    nothing for long. A rumour is that they may go to F1 with Leyton House,
    but if not, I'd be suprised not to see them running something in 1993,
    if not '92.
    
    Mark

    Sauber have been around a long time. Many years back, I think the c5
    they ran a bmw engine. The C7 or 8 was the first real Merc engined
    chappie. If anyone is real dead intrested I can look it up . 
    
    Great to see that britain may get to round of the 92 championship and
    its 1000K. If anything was going to make the championship hum then
    getting back to grass roots was what was needed. If the offers of entry 
    as per a few notes back which resulted in the meeting the other week
    really come off it should be a good championship.

    
    Autocar & Motor have an editorial which says (to paraphrase)...
    
    'Capelli and Alesi's F40 has been leading Le Mans for two hours
    since the Mercedes C112 of Wendlinger and Schumacher retired after
    aerodynamics failure. Warwick put up a good fight in the XJ220 and
    Johnny Herbert still leads the small capacity class in the new Lotus
    Esprit. Prost is still going well in the Bugatti.
    
    However Capelli's biggest challenge is now looming in the form of 
    Ayrton Senna in the Mclaren BMW which is only 10 seconds behind as 
    they lap Michael Andretti in the Dodge Viper'.
    
    Now all this is very nice, but what are they on at A&M? The likes
    of Senna and Prost won't drive the super strong, super safe Group
    C cars so there's not a hope in hell of these drivers racing in 
    souped up road cars! What would really be more likely is that you'd
    get something like...
    
    'Stock-Aitken-Waterman are now leading from Elton John in their F40s,
    but Andrew Ridgley is back in the race in his, after the 27th off of
    the race. Average race speed is 65 mph and all three cars are still in 
    the race after the third hour'.
    
    It seems that nostalgia has gone beserk down at the A&M offices!.
    
    Mark

    
    �                -< Did you Le Mans on the Box last night >-
    
    Err, no, but funnily enough I did watch it (on video) last Wednesday!
    
    � 	Bring back the 917 and the 512!
    
    Well they tried that, but it seems that FISA felt that F1 cars with
    tops and 5 minute races would be more popular, and we all know how
    much FISA know about motor racing, don't we?
    
    Mark

    Well it looks like the race in on. FISA have confirmed that there will
    be a wsc championship this year, ever though there was a short fall on
    the entry to date but a fairly healthy entry into the FIA cup. The
    number of races has been cut to 8 , dropping the autopolis race only
    leaving Suzuka, however there was another article in autosport
    yesterday with Big bern saying that Suzuka have confirmed the race and
    it will probably be reinstated. The calender printed yesterday did not
    say how long the race was. I think that most will be of the shorter
    length and not all 1000k as orignally suggested. There is still 2
    rounds in the UK, one at boring old silverstone and 1 at donnington.
    STILL no Brands Hatch!!!!!!!
    
    Brun and Kremer look to be out , no sponsors and sauber have said no
    but. Mercedes have pulled out of wsc therefore no offical support to
    sauber for the engine. I thought that was how it was before Mercedes
    came in with big bucks. However they are will working on the 292 and
    expect to have it finished soon and will test it. Suggestion is that it
    may wel get tested and then make it's way to a museum after that. There
    is some talk of maybe a private sauber running , but nothing is fixed.
    
    
    On the driver front , Derek Warwick , as soon as FISA confirmed that
    the championship was on , Derek sign for pugeot.
    
    Garry 
    
     

I heard a rumour that Keke Rosberg has been seen testing Mercedes! 

But what Mercedes, Group C or what?????

- Jyri -

Re: .58

Keke was testing Group A AMG Mercedes.

- Jyri -

    Seems pointless in starting a not to put the result of Daytona 24H, so
    here we go. Did anyone notice the fantastic coverage it got on all the
    channels , normal and satallite. Not a Peep !!!!! they couldn't even
    keep Ceefax up to date. Part way through they changed the title of the
    page and left the article the same. 
    
    
    	It would seem that the Brabham Nissan , as predicted , went very
    well and lead the race for some considerable time. But after a long
    call to the pits lost the lead to the japaneese crewed Nissan
    (suzuki,haseami (?) and co). Very little of any other runner was
    reported. The only positions reported on Ceefax
    
    	1.  Nissan R91
    	2.  Jaguar XJR12
    
    	The Jaguar was some 3 laps behind the Nissan , in terms of distance
    I think ceefax said that was 3.odd miles , the race distance was only
    700'sh laps. That does not compute as far as I'm concerned, 3 laps
    behind=3.xx miles = 700'ish laps in 24hrs, what were they doing pushing
    then round? Just to add insult to injury the nissan is quoted at
    setting a higher average lap speed , a few hundreths faster than the
    previous record held by Jaguar. 
    
        What can you expect for a minority sport.
    
    
    	Garry
    	

    Final entrants list published. No sign of Allard and Citra. Does anyone
    know what happened to both ? 

    The last I read of Allard they were going strong and all was looking
    good. I think I read somewhere that they bought out someone like spice,
    so maybe they are using the spice team . Are there many spice cars
    entered???
    
    	Anyhow tomorrows thursday, I guess autosport will have a verd or
    two.
    
    
    	Garry

    .62�    so maybe they are using the spice team . Are there many spice cars
    .62�    entered???
    
    No sign of Spice either. But they went bankrupt some time ago.
    
    As you pointed out Allard was showing all signs of going strong until
    recently. 2 cars should have been entered by team Citra. The entrants  
    list shows Jag-Randall, Peugeot, BRM, etc ...
    

    The list:
    
    WSCC 92  (12 cars)
    
      Team			Car		
    -----------------------------------------------------
    - BRM Racing Motor Ltd	BRM		2 cars
    - Euro Racing		Lola-Judd       2 cars
    - Mazdaspeed		Mazda		1 car
    - PTS			Peugeot		2 cars
    - RM Motorsport		Jag		2 cars
    - TDR			Spice		1 car
    - Toyota Team Tom's		Toyota		2 cars
    
    FIA's cup   (8cars)
    
    - De Dryver Racing		Spice-Ford	1 car
    - Chamberlain Engineering	Spice-Ford	1 car
    - Geepe Argo Sport		Argo-Ford	1 car
    - GP Motorsport		Spice-Ford	1 car
    - GSR 			Gebhart-Ford	1 car
    - RM Motorsport		Jag		2 cars
    - Mussato			Mussato-Ford	1 car
    
    
    Missing: the Allards, Konrad-Lambo and ALD

    
    Allard's seem to be having some strange problems. MN states that their
    car won't be at the Racing Car show, due to 'Unexpected Problems'.
    
    Re .64
    
    Was their any chance of ALDs being in the championship? Wasn't Louis
    Descarte recently killed in an accident or something?
    
    Mark
    
    PS Sad to see no Bruns either!

So what sort of race is this shambles going to make for Le Mans this year?? The
Porches are going to be running yet again, so is anyone other than Pugeot going
to bother entering 3.5 litre cars??? I can see little real future in this WSC
formula. Any hope of the ACO striking out alone, and allowing IMSA and JSC
entries to fill the grid, and try to make sure we have more than 10 cars to
watch on Sunday morning?

Wish I had a few quid to put the Sauber team back in there.....

Terry

    I think one of the reason that wsc is they way it is this year is
    because of people like Peugeot. The suggested championship before the
    big meeting at peugeot in paris made it all sound sensible again. It
    doesn't take the brain of a genius to see that since the race lenght
    has been cut from 1000KMS and 500Kms that the intrest has waned. In
    addition since the real cost of running a sportscar team became almost
    the same as a medioca formula 1 team , the intrest has dropped. 
    
    
    Sportscar racing for a long time had the word Endurance in it, teams,
    drivers and race fans and anything to do with sportscar racing, think
    of long races and in particular Le Mans. The Big mistake was trying to
    milk a formula beyond a point that teams, sponsors etc were prepared to
    go. Look at the facts, 88/89 was the latest high point in sportscar
    racing, It was for sure the peak of technical advance with basically
    standard engines , new carbon chassis, but dinosaurs like the 962
    porsche were still a contender on some circuits. Also the support from 
    the public was still fairly good. A crowd a Brands Hatch or Silverstone 
    was in the order of 30,000, not a massif number but a reasonable crowd.
    
    Look at what happended after, The cost of entry went up 100% or more in
    the Uk , the race was barely a sprint , no one was intrested in seeing
    a 2nd class F1 race, the whole character of endurance racing had
    changed. The attendance drop make circuit owners think , 'is it really
    worth it?' If the new 3.5 formula , if it was going to be real goer ,
    would have seen more teams and more cars going 3.5 sooner. Spice were
    the pioneers of the formula, ok they already ran C2, but the point
    being that nobody elses was quick to follow. Even now it still does not
    really look too good. This years championship really sees the
    re-appearance of C1/C2 with the championship and the FIA cup.
    
    
    Where from here. Easy to say but difficult to do. The championship
    needs to be something that everyone is prepared to put the effort into
    the championship. I think 1000K's is a must , cars that will go 5 hours
    and not a screemer that blows up after 3 hours. This year it looked to
    be shaping up to that but I think the fact that some teams spent large
    sums of money on a car that really an F1 car with covered in wheels,
    But due to the investment were not keen to change.
    
    
    Le Mans, I personally think it will happen what ever, what sort a race
    , who knows. I think the french kicked up such a fuss the other year
    that they will let anyone try and stop it again.
    
    Garry

    � the championship. I think 1000K's is a must , cars that will go 5 hours
    � and not a screemer that blows up after 3 hours. This year it looked to
    
    I can't believe how out of touch with sportscar racing FISA were. I
    thought I must be the only person who liked the tactical nature of the
    1000 km race, but the flood of letters in MN and Autosport and notes in
    this conference all saying '1000km races are the soul of Group C' prove
    I was wrong. So how come FISA decided to do a complete U-turn on the 
    race format? Because they wanted to make Sportscar racing into a roofed
    F1, but there's only room for 1 F1 and sportscar racing is about a
    totally different set of aims.
    
    Let's see a return to the stock-block engine rules (I even support the 
    fuel consumption rules, so disliked by FISA) in 1994 and a gradual
    return to that formula. 
    
    How about holding a 24 hour race at Spa too? The saloon car race seems 
    to attract a crowd and a second REAL endurance race would add spice (no
    pun intended!) to the series.
    
    Fingers firmly crossed that the patient can be revived.
    
    Mark

    
    JMB definatly didn't see it , or maybe just plain ignored the tell tale
    signs of the championships dimise. I think what was done this year ,
    how ever small was a positive move. It may have been more positive if
    big names like TWR and Sauber were in as works teams and not customer
    cars. Peugeot being the only real name surviving from the 1991
    championship someone had to listen to their plea's. If Max the man
    stays in, next year may well see the 2nd half of the U turn.
    
    As for spa, what sort of level of intrest is there in the Wilhire??
    If there is a good attendance at both spa and willhire then I guess
    that WEC,WSC, WSPC call it what ever it ends up, could manage 2 24h
    events. Le Mans has such a following that I doult that would ever see a
    small crowd. Unless they manage to stop the race.
             

    As with all motorsport, I think a recurring problem is that people
    whoever they are like to change rules and formula's each and every
    year, to justify their existance.  
    
    This has certainly been the case with my prefered sport, Drag racing. 
    
    My proposal for the sportscars would be that, excluding the very
    necessary safety regulations, anything goes, the only limitations being
    the amount/type of fuel used.  I would also like the word "Endurance"
    to be brought back.  A minimum distance to be raced over 1000Km's.
    
    One of the problems with simple rules, is that every now and again a
    "clever dick" comes along and blows everybody's doors off.  Then there
    is uproar from the other competitors. The rules get altered to Outlaw
    the "Clever dick" and the cycle continues until everybody is outlawed
    and there is no racing left for people to watch.
    
    Cheers Ian....
    
    PS. I would still be crewing for a tiny dragster, but for the fact that
    at 1200cc Winning the championship wasn't our smartest move....we were
    outlawed!! 

    
    Well to compare the Willhire with Le Mans and Spa is a bit like
    comparing Formula First with Formula 1 :^).
    
    However there is one other big time 24 Hour Race (well 2 if you count
    Daytona!). The Nurburgring 24 hour race attracts all sorts of cars from
    Porsche 935s to Group N Astras. It seems to be an increasingly popular
    race with competitors and, I believe, spectators.
    
    Mark

    
    Looking through MN today makes depressing reading.
    
    Brun, Sauber, TWR and others to race in IMSA, but not Group C.
    
    Dunlop (winners of Le Mans last year) to withdraw from the WSC.
    
    500 km races (not 1000 kms) at all but Le Mans and Suzuka (1000 km).
    
    Looks like FISA have missed the boat again...
    
    Mark

So Max "I can walk on water" Moseley hasn't worked the miracles promised by
Autosport then? Maybe not being french isn't the only qualification for the
job after all. Yet again we seem to have a FISA president who is out of touch
with the real needs of motorsport..... Why is it that FISA seem to look with
distain on the "bums on seats" approach of some of the US racing organisers,
while being willing to sell their souls for a TV franchise.

I've seen plenty of sensible solutions to the WSC problems in this file of
interested amateurs, why is it so incredibly difficult for the powers that
be to do something constructive?

Very frustrating, isn't it?

Terry

    
    Possibly because FISA is staffed by disinterested professionals (That
    word being used STRICTLY to describe someone in it JUST for the
    money!).
    
    Mark

    Not wishing to stick up for FISA, god forbid, but I think I'm right in
    saying that at the teams pow wow at peugeot's hq in paris was there not
    lots of noise make by peugeot about not having long races. They
    strongly advocated shorter races. Prior to that people like twr and
    sauber were intrested, but in the longer format races.  I peugeot made
    the most noise and no other manufacture make enough noise maybe Fisa
    listened to the loudest voice, even if misguided.
    
    
    As for Max Mosley being disintrested, I think he of all the people has
    a better racing background than most , although bern has had a fairly
    active part in the past. Is it disintrest in racing or is it greed
    again. Are they just worring about lining their pockets and lost sight
    of whats happening. 
    
    
    To go back a few points , the point I was making about the willhire was
    that group c already has 2 24h race in Le Mans and Daytona. Maybe
    Daytona is an oddity but the attendance is not what you could say good.
    Could group c stand another race, would there be the intrest.
    
    
    Garry

    Well what a surprise!!, Peugeot not wanting long races that is.  When I
    was at Lemans last year one of the commentators said "Peugeot have the
    best lighting for racing at night" another then quipped "That will only
    be of any use if they can last that long"  All around me there was
    great laughter from those wearing the Radio Hats.
    
    Ian...

    
    Max Mosley has a rationality which JMB severely lacked, but his past
    connections with MGB have to make his motives seriously suspect.
    
    When I said FISA was staffed by disinterested people I was meaning
    disinterested in the wishes of the teams (current and potential) and
    of the PAYING spectator. They seem to have an unhealthy interest (as
    you said) in money...
    
    I'm sure Peugeot did kick up a lot of fuss about short races, they've
    invested a fortune in getting a  sprint race winning car and want
    something (even a castrated World Championship win) to show for it.
    However, FISA should put their foot down and say something along the
    lines of 'OK, 8 races this year, 1 24 hour, min 3 500 km and the rest
    whatever the organisers like and next year we'll be predominantly
    1000km with 1 or 2 shorter'. They should make a commitment to the
    future, not keep farting around with this bloody useless 3.5 litre
    formula of sprint races, which no-one (teams or spectators) are
    interested in. It failed, throw it away and go back to a series where
    manufacturers can use THEIR technology (not a TWR-Cosworth with Jaguar
    stickers!) and spectators who want to watch sportscars can enjoy the
    different atmosphere and approach from F1.
    
    FISA have obviously never heard the expression 'If it ain't broke don't
    fix it'!
    
    Mark
    
    PS I don't know whether Group C can really stand another 24 hour race,
    but it certainly can't stand a series of sprint races. Daytona is NOT
    (as I'm sure you know) part of the WSC (maybe it should be), but really
    sportscar racing is not part of American culture - for God's sake they
    turn left and right in the same lap!!! :^). However, it's interesting
    to see that many manufacturers see IMSA (a relative backwater series in
    NASCAR/CART terms) as a more attractive option than a WORLD
    championship. That must mean something.

    Perhaps they should simply call this years championship the "Peugeot
    Trophy", as I can't see any other reason for continuing with the
    current formula.
    

    
    Or maybe the Peugeot Vs Toyota fight?
    
    Mark

    
    I've read that Porsche are going to be allowed to race at Le Mans.
    How can this be? They have not entered the championship, nor are
    any customer teams using them.
    
    Richard.
    
    ps. I agree with Mark. They should stop farting around with 3.5
    litre formula and scrap it!
    

    As per last year, because no bugger is sodding intrested in fafing
    around with 3.5 litre screaming demons, the grid a Le Mans will be 
    a bit short. So they have called back the old faithfull porsche.
    
    
    	Don't it make yer wanna spit!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    Garry
    

    
    SUPRISE, SUPRISE!
    
    No not a Cilla Black TV special, but the news that RMM HAVEN'T got a
    sponsor to pay for their ambitious WSC programme with privateer Jags.
    
    It seems (let's be generous and try and believe it) that the Dubai
    government were to sponsor the team, but that they have changed their 
    mind. Alan Randall (RMM boss) is trying to interest an alternate
    sponsor, but it looks unlikely that he'll succeed.
    
    The loss of the Jaguars effectively means that the minimum numbers
    required to go ahead with the championship have not been reached and
    it's in the balance (again!).
    
    Hopefully this time FISA will kill it and allow a free for all 'series'
    of races to 1990 onward rules to go ahead this year, to be followed by 
    a return to something along the lines of the old Group C. There is
    still talk of a 'supercar' series, but it didn't work with Group 5 and
    I can see no reason why it should work now, although as an ADDITIONAL
    class to boost fields it doesn't seem a bad idea.
    
    Mark

Well I doubt that any of us are supprised at this, but where did the information
come from? I just read it in VNS....  Has there been an "official" FISA
reaction to the news? What hope of someone else running Jags for the season?
Any hope of TWR coming back for Le Mans only?

Any chance that we could get all the cars that took part in the Daytona 24 hour
running at Le Mans? Surely the chance of a double would draw NISMO, and mazda
have a new IMSA car.... at least these guys have a field of cars known to be
capable of competing in a 24 hour race. Let them run in a separate class and
at least we'd keep the numbers up, and get the japanese teams (the only ones 
who seem to have any money for sportscars) involved. I may be panicing, but
it is only 3.5 months to the race, and all we seem to have yet is a bunch
of spices, the 2 pugeots, the toyota, and a few other cars that have NEVER BEEN
RUN IN ANGER!!! 

Terry

    According to a friend who works at TWR in Banbury, there's little chance 
    of TWR coming back for anything this year.  As an aside, the first 220 is
    now on the production line, no's 1 and 220 have been reserved by Tom W.
    for his own personal amusement.
    
    Nev.

    It does not exactly supprise me. I did think that it was rather
    ambitious to want to enter/purchase the number of cars RM were talking
    about. Will someone like SUNTEC (Last year Le Mans private jag) pick up
    the pieces?? Back in January when RM were claiming to have a cash
    mountain ,thought to be the middle east waiting ,and some crap about
    new premisis smelt a bit fishey.
    
    How many of the other teams that have supposeedly commited to the
    championship will cry off with the news that RM Motorsport seem to be a
    faller before the first. Why oh why oh why do people not listen or take
    off the blinkers when it comes to planning championships. Can't those
    complete bafoons at FISA see that milking sportscar racing was going to
    kill it, as well , changing the format of the championship was not
    what the teams/sponsors/track owners/spectators wanted to see. They
    only was forward now, and it must be obvious as a shark bite on the
    A**E, create a championship that the majority want. The teams want
    lower budget racing, particularly endurance ( stronger less fragile
    equipment),Sponsors who want into a worthwile championship, and more
    importantly tracks that really want to hold a round. It is unfortunate
    that Max Mosley has been left with the the mess left buy a demented
    warthog. And if Peugeot get burned in the process it just too damed
    bad. They should have seen it coming, this is not the first time that
    Jean Todt jumped in with both feet when the smart money was thinking
    about getting out.  
    
    
    	On a sadder note What is going to become of Le Mans, I so far have
    done nothing. I would hate to have miss the annual 4 day visit to Le
    Mans with the 4 day bing.
    
    
    Garry

I've booked the ferry, and I'll be there anyway, but I don't think there will
be the large British contingent that we have seen in recent years if the
entry list remains as it is.....

On a more practical note, is it too late to try booking a grandstand seat, and
how much do they cost? I've been looking up there with envy for the past couple
of years, and since the girlfriend seems to prefer shopping to motor racing
it looks like I can spend her ticket money on myself.... anyone here have
experience of seating around the start-finish area, or the new pits complex?

Terry

    Oh , now there's a question. I personally will not be getting anywhere
    near a granstand this year. In previous years I have been a visitor to
    the pits grandstand ( both old and new) , I never felt there was much
    on an advantage being in the others, other than you get a seat to park
    you behind on. The new pit grandstand is a) very noisy, b) the view is
    probably worst than the other side of the road. As for Prices, I should
    be prepared for a shock. Last year I paid 85 for both the pits
    grandstand and general entry ticket . This year the Pits ticket alone
    is 85 I think and the Jaguar/Nissan/Citroen grandstand are about 90.
    Then of course there is the 37 for the general entry ticket. Those
    prices are what chequers travel quote, they are not known to be cheap.
    However for grandstand tickets I think unless you are lucky an early
    order is required.  I Personally now much prefere to go walkabout
    rather than sit in a grandstand. In the old pits stand it was magic ,
    the atmosphere was briliant,if the area was cramped, and good for
    photography. Now its a waste of time.
    
    
    Garry

    
    �37 for entrance????!?!?!?!?!?!?! (I think that's enough. :^))
    
    Either Chequers are taking the piss (along with their punters money)
    or the ticket prices have just leapt for the first time in, errr, 13
    years! (They've gone up a bit over the years, but that's about �12 quid
    dearer than last year!).
    
    Mark

    Yeh That is chequers price !!!. I looked at the grandstand prices in
    the brochure this year and made an instant decision, NO WAY!!!!!.
    
    Chequers do charge over the top for the tickets, There's no hiding
    that, and well they might. I don't want to stand up for them but they
    must have costs to cover and therefore the customer covers that. The
    actual price rise is �7 on the general entry from last year , that
    makes the extra added by chequers �5 approx to cover admin/postage and
    a bit for the coughers. I don't find that too unreasonable , If you
    think about it , who spent 12 million or whatever it was last year on a
    new stand, someone has to pay for that. I think the differance in the
    pit grandstand ticket this year to last year from chequers is �35. I
    can't believe that even chequers could get away with that kind of price
    increase if the real ticket price had not made some sort of a leap.
    
    	I could be wrong, anyone know better??
    
    Garry

That's unbelievable!!!!!

I didn't go to the British Gradn Prix last year because of the price. I looked
at what they were charging, and looked at Le Mans and couldn't reconcile the
difference. Looks like someone else spotted good value for money too.....

With prices like this, and an at best mediocre field, FISA could be out to
do more damage to Le Mans than those 2 chicanes on the straight. Why oh why
did the ACO feel they had to get into bed with FISA? With the benifit of
hindsight, what more damage could exclusion from the WSC have done over the
past 2 years when compared with what FISA have managed? Perhaps the WSC would
have crumbled earlier if it had tried to exist without Le Mans, and we'd all
be better off now.....

Terry

    
    Re .90
    
    Terry,
    
    It's very hard to find fault with your logic.
    
    The ACO have shown the way out of a sportscar cul-de-sac before, let's
    hope they can do the same again!
    
    Long live FISA (But maybe now is long enough! :^)).
    
    Mark

    My memory is to say the least foggy on this, but am I right in thinking
    that around the time of the GT40 not sure which version, that sportscar
    racing took a turn for the worst. I seem to recall that there was
    someone making silly restrictive engine rules which cause a rumpus and
    a down turn in sportscar racing. There was a few years gap before
    things really took off again when the 917 appeared. Could we be in this
    flat period again?????
    
    I agree with Le Mans, who needs FISA, who needs the WSC. For many years
    Le Mans managed to get by without anyones help , I'm sure it could do
    it now. There are enough teams, given a set of rules that are workable
    for endurance racing, that could and probably would put a car on the
    grid tomorrow. I suspect that there would be sponsors who would put
    money into a teams for Le Mans but would not be prepared to waste it on
    a futile championship , whatever status. There some french people that
    do a great deal for sportscar racing and others that just make a pigs
    ear of it. Lets hope the sensible prevail.
    
    
    Garry
    

    
    It must also be said that there are a number of British people and 
    Germans and... who do nothing for sportscar racing.
    
    Tom Walkinshaw and Peter Sauber's teams have both revived what was 
    basically a one-make championship, but the withdrawl of these teams has
    undoubtedly harmed it greatly. Equally, Balestre certainly hurt the
    WSC, but he was admirably assisted (dare I say driven) by my old mate
    Bernie (MGB) Ecclestone.
    
    The GT40 and 917 weren't far apart in terms of sportscar racing, but
    sportscar racing did suffer a slump shortly after these cars' time.
    The slump was caused by some idiot deciding that Sportscars should
    really be F1 engined two seaters owing more to F1 than to genuine
    road car engineering - Sound familiar? :^(
    
    Mark

    Absolutly, can't argue with that. Maybe what is needed is for the
    championship to fall flat on its face to make people wakeup and see
    where it is really at in sportscar racing. If TWR and Sauber were to
    have stayed in then maybe the other teams would have been more keen to
    stay. With no big names like Jaguar, Mercedes, Porsche or for that
    matter any of the japanese factories entering, it must make life
    difficult to generate intrest in the championship therefore making it
    difficult to get good sponsorship. As you say, todays situations seems
    to be a repeat performance. Still if the eurotwats get their way with
    tabaco advertising. Motorsport as a whole, including F1, may well take
    a nose dive if the tobaco companies pull out.
    
    
    	Garry

    
    Re Tobacco sponsorship.
    
    Maybe the loss of these mega-bucks will have the result of bringing
    budgets back down to a level where the manufacturers will be able to
    afford to compete off their own backs and for their own aims.
    
    Mark

    
    The IMSA race in Miami was run a few weekends ago and the NPTI Nissan 
    GTP turbo won the race.  But more noteworthy was that the Jaguar XJR-14
    was raced by Davy Jones.  It won pole and led but finished 6th after
    a couple of spins.
    
    The implications are significant though.  Many teams were quite
    unsettled by the F1 inspired 3.5l NA racer.  Though IMSA has done a good
    job of balancing the equivelancy formulas to allow diverse engine
    configurations to run competitively at different weights concerns about
    the cost of competing in IMSA in the future were rampant.  These
    concerns surely won't be diminished by news that Mercedes has requested
    paddock space at Lime Rock (metro New York).  Furthermore, Peugeot
    asked IMSA for a ruling on what modifications are needed to make their
    905 eligable to race.
    
    Thankfully IMSA GTP has been a relatively stable series.  But, what are
    the implications if Jaguar, Nissan, Mercedes, Peugeot and Toyota all
    appear on the scene with 3.5l NA engines.  Would we see the death of a
    series as the privateers are forced out?  Would the factories get tired
    of the expense and relatively low return on investment (as it is now
    IMSA has to buy time on the networks, excepting ESPN, to broadcast the
    races).
    
    So, the point of this is...
    
    Are 3.5l NA cars good in the *long term* for IMSA or not?
    
    - Nate

    
    IMSA have, in the past, managed to balance the competitiveness of
    various cars pretty well. The danger is that they'll be so enamoured
    with the idea of having lots more manufacturers in that they'll allow
    the 3.5s to dominate and that _will_ destroy the championship. The
    alternative is to weigh down the 3.5s, but that'll defeat the object of
    racing them.
    
    Personally, I hope to see the death of the 3.5s and a return to the
    much freer regs which allowed stock blocks and race engines to compete
    on, almost, equal terms.
    
    Anyone know what the news is on the WSC front? Last I heard, Monza and
    Silverstone were likely to be scrapped and A&M has a suggestion that
    cars like the XJR-15, F40, Diablo, etc may be allowed in at Le Mans (is
    that this year?).
    
    Mark

    .97�    Personally, I hope to see the death of the 3.5s and a return to the
    
    .97�    Anyone know what the news is on the WSC front? Last I heard, Monza and
    
    Latest news: today, Monday 30th, FISA was expected to finally announce
    the end of the 1992 WSCC story. Since the famous Paris meeting held by
    Peugeot, potential competitors (I could hardly find the 20 cars
    required as a minimum) kept disappearing one after another.
    
    Last week 2 teams were ready to compete: Peugeot and Toyota. Even with
    2 cars each, you can't run a championship. More important: 20 cars was
    the minumum needed for paying the COSTS of running the championship.
    
    FISA haven't done anything during the last couple of months that could
    have ruined the championship. The championship sinked by itself (many
    thanks Mr Balestre for your bright idea - the uniform 3.5 ltr engine).
    
    Now the real problem: where is LE MANS heading this year ? are there
    any cars ready to compete ? the fact that the 3.5 ltr championship is
    over means that any capacity will probably be accepted ... IMSA ?

    
    FISA are expected to announce today (Tuesday) wether or not there will 
    be a championship this year. Looks bad.
   
    Would Le Mans dates (21st Jun) clash with the existing IMSA calendar?
    
    Richard. 

    
    I don't think that Le Mans clashing with an IMSA race would be a factor
    as most of the manufacturers could raise a Le Mans team in addition to
    their IMSA teams (often, in the past, both have raced at Le Mans).
    
    Jaguar, Nissan, Mercedes(?), Mazda and sundry Porsches would all (I
    expect) turn up for Le Mans if given the chance, whilst Peugeot may go
    off and sulk or just bite the bullet and take part. Perhaps Toyota
    would risk their 3.5 litre car, or maybe dust off some Turbos.
    
    If Le Mans is opened to all-comers, expect a full field.
    
    Mark
    
    PS I don't know of any IMSA clash with Le Mans.
    

    I'm sure Le Mans clashes with something , I have a feeling it is an
    F3000 race somewhere or the other. Lets hope someone puts the final
    nail in the coffin and puts sportscar racing back to something a tad
    more relistic.
    
    Garry
    
    
    Ps I just check the calenders posted on TIGEMS::RACERS it does clash
    the the Portland INDY race. There's not a Imsa calenders so I pass on
    that. Is it likly that cart and imsa would have a race on the same
    day??
    

Re: Note 1584.99 by DOOZER::JENKINS 

>    Would Le Mans dates (21st Jun) clash with the existing IMSA calendar?

No...However, the week before Le Mans the IMSA series runs at New Orleans, 
and the week after Le Mans they're at Watkins Glen.  Sounds quite demanding, 
both physically and mechanically, not to mention logistically!

Re: Note 1584.101 by COMICS::COOMBER 
    
>    Ps I just check the calenders posted on TIGEMS::RACERS it does clash
>    the the Portland INDY race. There's not a Imsa calenders so I pass on
>    that. Is it likly that cart and imsa would have a race on the same
>    day??
 
Geoff Brabham gained some frequent-flyer miles during the Memorial Day 
weekend last year...He competed at the Indy 500 on Sunday and in the IMSA 
series at Lime Rock on Monday.

Of the 16 IndyCar events, there are IMSA events scheduled for the same 
weekend (at different sites) for 6 of them.

							Mike

    I gather that the decision about the championship has been postponed
    til today. Seems appropriate somehow!

re.103:

I think it's been postponed another week actually.

/Dave.

    Paris, Wed 1-Apr, pm   FISA have announced that the WSCC will take
    place. A list of entrants and a list of circuits have been published.
    
    1st race: Monza, 26-Apr
    
    What happens is that Peugeot (and Toyota and Mazda to a lesser extent)
    have finally accepted to support the WSCC (financially). Ecclestone has
    won. The circuits don't have to fear any sort of deficit, Pug/Toy/Maz
    will pay for it.
    
    Once the finance aspects are solved, guess what happened: RM Motors Randall
    reappears as does BRM and a number of Spices and ... and ...
    
    How serious is this announcement ? Well, Peugeot are spending their
    entire advertising budget on the WSCC, that is they are ready to pay
    for all financial deficit encountered by all race organizers.

    Looks like a potential cloud over Le Mans at the moment. Porsche have
    recommended that teams do not enter ( reported in Autosport ) . I
    suspect the content to the following paragraph is nearer the reality
    that is, teams like Joest and Kreamer are no likly to take much notice.
    There is also a suggested fuel limit of 2140 litres for the turbo cars.
    
    Also this week is a picture of the mazda MX01, Change the paint job
    from the bright renown/charge colours to the familiar purple of last 
    years silk cut jags and there is little difference between it and the
    XJR14. The article says that there are few cosmitic with the only
    obvious difference being that the node section now carries 2 head
    lights. The only real modifications being in the engine area where the
    ford HB V8 has been replaced by the Judd V10 which has been rebadged as
    Mazda. That car is due to make its debut on april 9 at suzuka in the
    JSPC.

    A recent study on Le Mans for ACO showed that they could probably find
    40-50 entries, but these would include all categories ie:
    
    	- current 3.5
    	- IMSA
    	- previous rules (n/a and turbo)
    	- ....
    
    The problem really is: publish rules and categories QUICK so that teams
    can get prepared ie ask their favorite financial support, sign drivers,
    etc ...
    
    Only 2.5 months to go ....

    
    Is the WSC supposed to be starting this weekend?
    
    Is the race being shown on satellite TV (Eurosport covered all races
    live last year - except the last one)?
    
    will this series _really_ happen?
    
    Mark

    
    I suppose the answer is to look in the tv guide for next sunday, but
    baring in mind the state of the championship thats probably too far in
    advance. Will autosport hold the answer this week.
    
    
    Garry

    
    12 cars "HOPED FOR" for Monza on Sunday!!!! What a pathetic joke....
    
    Mark

    ????????????
    
    
    I've just picked up autosport , No mention Of RM motorsport. I thought
    they came out of the woodwork. There does not appear to be anything on
    tv, no real supprise there. 
    
    There was talk of TWR wanting to enter a team for Le Mans on the back
    of RM's entry . Will they now be able to use Mazda as the chassis is
    TWR. 
    
    
      As you say what a Joke , 12 Hoped for .....
    
    
    
    Garry

    
    
    Just thought , anyone going to Monza at  the weekend. Not that I want
    to go , just curious what the ticket price is. I was think about what
    stupid price they will charge at silverstone or maybe Donnington.
    
    
    Garry

    Championship??????????????????????????????????????????
    
    
    	from what I read on ceefax last night, it must have been a real
    exciting race, I don't think. 4 cars finished, or at least that is what
    I understood it to say. And as for Dalmas rolling it 2 laps from the
    end when he was leading, what a pillock.
    
    
    
    	How they can call it a championship on that sort of showing leave
    me cold. Does'nt take much to imagine what will happen to the
    championship new year, thats assuming it lasts the year.
    
    
    
    	Garry

    
    Too true.
    
    As I read Ceefax only 3 cars finished (Dalmas was placed 2nd!).
    
    To be fair to Dalmas, apparently the car suffered total brake failure
    before he rolled it!!!!!
    
    Mark
    
    PS I wonder if they'll manage to get a double figure field at
    Silverstone? Traditionally this race is used as a test event for Le
    Mans, but most of the cars entered at Le Mans aren't allowed to race
    at Silverstone! What a farce... :^(
    

    
    Ah,  yes really shoud'nt run down Dalmas for that. How absolutly
    pathetic that he can wreck the car and still be placed. He must have still 
    been laps in front of the 3rd place car even with the laps he lost. 
    
    I can see that the crowd at silverstone is going to be massive on the
    strenght of this weekends showing. If the championship continues on
    such a high note, Donnington might even be able to restrict parking to 
    the car park in front on the museum. Thinking about it, it maybe just
    as well to take a radio , pay the few pounds to go round the museum,
    and listen to the commentary whilst walking round. By the time you've
    finished walking around enough cars will have dropped out to be able to 
    predict the result 8-).
    
    
    
    Garry
    
    
     

    
    Saw on Ceefax last night that Silverstone wanted to cut the race lenght
    from 500 to 200km on the strenght of the weekends showing. Toyota
    apparently pitched in and said NO!!! our cars are setup for 500KM not
    200.  Oh dear what a sorry state of affairs.
    
    
    Garry

    Peugeot have announced their additional drivers for Le Mans:
    
    	Karl Wendlinger
    	Eric Bernard
    
    2 more F1-class drivers 

    Will those services be required. The Pug has not exactly shown its
    strenght in the longer distances. Come to think of it will anyone
    finish.
    
    Garry

    One more F1 driver signed for Le Mans with Peugeot 905:
    
    Mark Blundell

What will be at Le Mans this year - does anyone expect the racing to be
interesting? I remember the last time - when Le Mans had a divorce from FISA -
Le Mans came up with a really imaginative formula.

Anyone knows what is happening this year - a place in my nice warm camper if
you can convinvce me to go?!

Steve

    
    Well reading what happens in Autosport, I have many mixed feelings.
    Based on the performance at Monza, 3 cars finishing, will there be any
    finishers at Le Mans. 
    
    According to Autosport , There will be 5 porsche's entered, much
    smaller than expected. I believe that Twr will be entering a team, not
    sure how they managed that. The rest will be made up of 3.5 screamers.
    
    
    Opinion, none. Until I see an entry list I don't know what to make of
    it. I'm going , its a weekend away , a good drink up , and if the
    racing boring, more drinking. And if any of the noters in this very
    fine note are there a good chin wag. If nothing else its a social
    event.
    
    
    	Garry
    
    
    	

    
    TWR are not, at present, planning on racing at Le Mans, due to the fact
    that the fuel allowance for the V12s is tighter than last year.
    
    I believe that Peugeot Spyder's and Pro-Sports 3000 cars will be
    allowed to race at Le Mans this year. I even heard a rumour suggesting
    that German Touring Cars would be allowed, but I doubt that! The
    Peugeot Spyders are about as fast as F3 cars, so will be _very_ slow
    compared with the front runners.
    
    Awaiting the entry list with interest.
    
    Mark

        Anyone know when the entry list will be published?

    Ta.

    No !!! wished I had.
    
    
    slight change of subject , away from Le Mans and back to this weekend.
    A last minute entry from Chamberlain for sundays race. They will be
    running a singlton Jaguar XJR17. The deal was put together by Georg
    Paolin who's GeePee Motorsport run a Argo. The deal is believed to be 
    for 3 years
    
    John Neilsen, has been signed for Kremer . He will be sharing a Kenwood 
    sponsored car with Manuel Reuter, the third driver is expected to be
    Kurt Thiim.
    
    Garry

    
    Did anyone else go to/watch the Silverstone race?
    
    This race used to be overflowing with entries all trying to get a test
    run before Le Mans. So what did we get this time?
    
    12 entries, only 11 starters (the BRM, unsuprisingly expiring in the
    warm up) and 5 finishers (one of those looking a bit sick).
    
    PATHETIC! Peugeot did their best to make it a race, by repeating their
    oft-used 'setting light to the car at the pitstop' trick, but Toyota 
    spoilt it by letting someone other than Geoff Lees drive one of their
    cars which resulted in instant retirement.,
    
    Mazda droned around well off the pace, whilst Euroracing spent all race
    trying to save their gearbox (well, it worked on one car!).
    
    Based on this showing, the question now is, will ANYONE finish at Le
    Mans? Which Porsches are entered?
    
    Mark
    
    PS One snippet was that Hugh Chamberlain 'hopes' there will be Jaguars
    at Le Mans (well there should've been one at Silverstone too!), but
    even if there are which top line drivers are left? What about a
    Jonathon Palmer/Derek Bell entry?

    
    RE 125.
    
    The point about the BRM saving its gearbox.
    
    I don't think it managed to finish the race with its full compliment of
    gears. I was standing at Woodcote towards the end of the race and
    watched the BRM follow the Pug round. As it exited Woodcote it would
    accelerate (in second I guess) let it hit the rev limiter then change
    up. The engine note dropped so much I guess he was changing upto at
    least fourth if not fifth.
    
    The most memorable moment of the race for me was just as the second
    round of pitstops began. I was round at Bridge where the cars appear
    over the crest of a hill and flash past at about 180-190 MPH just
    10-15 feet away from the crowd. As a consequence of the pitstop the Pug
    was exactly 1 lap down on the Toyota. As they came over the hill they
    were side by side both with feet to the floor. Warwick (whom I think was
    driving the Pug) brazened it out the longest before the quick dab on the
    brakes for the bend. Probably the only real overtaking manoeuver in the
    whole race (and that was just someone unlapping themselves!!!)
    
    As to Le Mans I believe cars will be allowed 1 engine change during the
    race, well that means that the race might actually last about 6 hours
    then at current rates of attrition!!!!!!!
    
    POL.

    There are rumours of a possible return of the "GT cars" in the WSCC in
    the "future". I think this is the right thing to do and a long awaited
    decision. I'd love to see the Jags, Porsches, F40s, Diablos ... fight
    each other for 24 hours.

    
    Slow and unsafe (compared with 'real' racing cars). Is it such a good
    idea? If they catch on as a second (or third) division (like Group 4 of 
    old) then great, but a full race F40 would not be anything like as
    cheap as a 934 was and if one manufacturer decided to take the plunge
    and make an affordable race machine the competition would fade away (as
    it did in Group 4). I can't imagine a full race Diablo being any
    cheaper to race than a Spice.
    
    What's needed is some kind of handicapping as in the GTCC and BTCC to
    stop one kind of car being all-conquering. This would also, perhaps,
    keep the costs down a bit, which, in these times, MUST be a good idea.
    
    Maybe it'll work, but I reckon FISA don't know what to do and are just
    fiddling with the series. What's really needed is to go back to the old
    rules...:^(
    
    Mark

    .128�    Slow and unsafe (compared with 'real' racing cars). Is it such a good
    .128�    idea? If they catch on as a second (or third) division (like Group 4 of 
    .128�    old) then great, but a full race F40 would not be anything like as
    .128�    cheap as a 934 was and if one manufacturer decided to take the plunge
    
    Mark, the current problem is not with the manufacturers. They can build
    cars (and they have done it for a number of years) to suit the rules
    that FISA will publish (and they keep changing them ...). 
    
    It's the general public that does not like those cars, races, rules ...
    I read that there were 8000 who showed up during the whole weekend at
    Monza (how many paying ?). What was the attendance at Silverstone ?
    
    There are, at least, 2 things people like in sports/protos racing:
    
    1. extraordinary cars (XJRxx, Sauber-Merc, 917, DBR1/300, ...)
    2. high performance GTs (Bentley 6, AM 1.5, Alfa Romeo, Talbot, ...)
    
    The 1st category is easy to fill: publish rules that will allow
    monsters to be built.
    
    The 2nd category is what has made racing. Take existing relatively high
    performance road cars and turn them into race cars. That's what
    Bentley, Aston-Martin, Jaguar, Mercedes, Alfa-Romeo, Bugatti, Talbot,
    Ferrari, Maserati, ... did with extraordinary success.
    
    'Le MANS' and all long races (24h, 12h, 6h, 1000km, ...) is a subtle
    combination of both categories so that a wide public will be interested  
    
    The current rules (F1 bis) are wrong. There is room for only one F1. I
    am pretty sure that if they allow the current high performance GT cars
    race the big crowds will come back to the tracks. 
                                                          

IMSA seems to have no problem coming up with a formula that allows several
different types of sports prototpyes (3.5l aspros, turbocharged, 6l+ aspros,
Wankel rotaries) to race each other competitively.

--PSWNEWMAIL

    Re .130
    
    Some would say that FISA didn't either (5 litre V8 Turbos, N/A V12s,
    Flat 6s, Cosworths...), but they decided that that wasn't any good and
    introduced F1 with roofs! Look where that's got us...
    
    Re .129(?)
    
    I don't disagree that road sportscars were once the stuff of sportscar
    racing, but I can't see that they (if we're talking F40/Diablo/XJR-15)
    really offer anything (other than spectacle) to sportscar racing.
    Whilst they may be fun to watch, they'll have to be attractive to the 
    competitors to really make a difference, but to do that they'll have to
    be a fair bit cheaper than a Spice (or the like). One or two extra cars
    trailing around at the back of the pack isn't going to bring the WSCC
    back to life.
    
    As for safety, no road going sportscar is built like a Group C car (ok,
    I know there're a couple based on Group C cars, but...) and I can't see 
    many top line drivers queuing up to drive unsafe cars (remember they'll
    probably be a lot quicker than the GTCC cars). The starry eyed
    nostalgia for the 50s and 60s seen in much of the press with talk of 
    Senna in a Diablo battling with Mansell in a Jaguar are lovely ideas,
    but these guys won't get out of bed for less than 8 figure sums and
    certainly aren't going to want to drive around in tuned up versions of
    their road cars.
    
    Mark
    
    PS I hope I'm wrong, though. The idea is lovely! :^)

re: .-1

Yeh, but you're missing an important point - spectator appeal...

Surely this is the factor which makes GpA so attractive. The average bloke
knows that there is no relationship between the car he drives and that which
he sees raced, but doesn't care. It is the name of the motor car *company*
which matters and which he identifies with. There is absolutely *no*
identifiation with Spice...

I would love to see a world sportscar championship race series. With the likes
of Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, Jaguar, BMW and Porsche committed to sportscars
as a customer concept, the results would be fantastic.

    
    I agree with all the points you raise in .132, but the appeal is with
    the name. My doubt is that 'supercars' would improve the quality or 
    quantity of sportscar racing.
    
    There certainly isn't much appeal in the current series, but not so
    long ago under the 'popular with the spectators' regulations we saw the
    likes of Jaguar, Mercedes, Porsche, Lancia, Ferrari, Peugeot, Toyota,
    Nissan and Mazda represented in either chassis or engine form (plus
    others). The old regulations made it easy for any manufacturer to find
    an engine which could be adapted or used. The only condition was making
    the fuel allowance (something which, whilst not popular with drivers of
    F1 cars, is _very_ applicable to road car technology).
    
    Mark
    
    PS The likes of Spice may not have a great deal of punter appeal, but
    they do have the benefit of padding a field to a semi-respectable size
    as well as providing a lot of entertaining racing...

    
    One month to departure.... paid for my ferry crossing this week.
    
    Now the only question is what am I going to be looking at? What exactly
    does a pre-sport 3000 car look like? and why is it more desirable to 
    have running than a porche 962? 
    
    Anyone else have a clue what we've signed up for this year? How many
    (if any) Jaguars are going to run? I presume that they will all be V12
    models, and that Mazda will be the only ones running the XJ14.
    
    Have you noticed that Mazda are making good use of last year's win to
    sell their new RX7? Just a pity that this year they'll be running 
    without wankel engines.....
    
    Terry
    

    
    Well a pro-sport 3000 is a bit like a baby group C car (very much like 
    an Ultima kit car, actually, in appearance), a Peugeot Spyder is like
    an F3 car with a Porsche 936 bodywork, they are not expected (at
    present) to be ANY Jaguars at Le Mans (private deals having fallen
    through) and only the Porsche 962s or the Turbo Toyotas are likely to
    last beyond  6 PM on Saturday. 
    
    Take lots of beer to fill in the quiet sessions, while all the 3.5 cars
    are in the pits having new engines and gearboxes fitted!
    
    Mark
    

    Well, we took the plunge.booked some strange ferry crossing, Portsmouth
    to Cherburg. As it turned out its not too bad. the cost is reasonable
    and taboot the normal party has grown by 1 so the cost is cheaper all
    round. 
    
    
    I only hope the race is worth seeing.
    
    
    
    Garry
    
    

    Anyone seen anything of an entry list for Le Mans Yet??????
    
    
    
    Garry

    Nope... But it won't include poor Ogawa, who was killed at Suzuka
    this weekend. Seems like a bad year for racing 8-(

    
    Well Autosport says there are 43 entries, with 9 probable no-shows.
    From a numbers perspective alone that is not going to make for a 
    great race. VTX in the past 2 days mentioned that entries had closed
    with 39 cars entered, and that Jag, Merc, and Nissan were all
    inelligable to race.... When they say Jaguar are inelligable, does
    this mean that no team can race a Jag? or that the TWR teamcannot
    enter?
    
    Nowhere Have I seen a proper list of entrants
    
    Hope someone out there can enlighten us.....
    
    Terry
    

    
    re .138.
    
    
    	Sad news, Was that in JSP or some other formula??
    
    Garry

To answer my own question, this is what FISA released as the Le Mans entry list.

38 entries of which 11 are "real" '92 3.5 litre cars, 7 are FIA cup cars,
10 are last year's formula (turbo's and the jag), and 10 are the spider
cup, french alfa, and pro-sports drafted in to fill the pack.

Word at the moment is that a number of this last catagory are having problems
putting a sponsorship package togeather. Going through the results of some
french championship races, the spiders lap within a second of F3 times, and
run in races of about 50 miles duration. To put into perspective the pro-sport
3000 offering, let me quote the race report for the Inagural race for the 
class on May 24th.. "...was won by Eugene O'Brien as the other six runners
struggled with teething troubles in their still new machines". Again they
lap within a second a lap of F3.

I get the feeling we will see a turbo car in the top 3........

1	peugeot 905b
2	peugeot 905b
31	peugeot 905b
3	euroracing lola/judd
4	euroracing lola/judd
5	Mazda MXR01
92	Mazda MXR01
7	TOMS Toyota TS010
8	TOMS Toyota TS010
33	TOMS Toyota TS010
34	SARD Toyota CV92
35 	Trust Toyota CV92
9	BRM
21	Spice ford
22	Chamberlain Spice ford
36	Chamberlain Spice ford
23 	Geepee Jaguar XJR12
38	Geepee Jaguar XJR17
27	RM Spice ford
29	Tiga ford
30	Spice ford
51	Kremer Porsche 962C-K6
52	Kremer Porsche 962C-K6
53	Prosche 962C
54	Courage Porsche
55	Courage Porsche
56	Courage Porsche
57	Peugeot WR (spider)
58	Peugeot 905 Spider
59	Norma Alfa Romeo
60	ALD Alfa Romeo
61	Debora Alfa Romeo
62	Pro-Sport 3000
63	Pro-Sport 3000
64	Pro-Sport 3000
65	Pro-Sport 3000
66	Orion 905 spider
67	Primagaz Porsche 962C

Col Euser of Eurosport is reported to be asking for towtrucks to be allowed to 
tow cars stranded out on the circuit back in under a full course yellow.
Given that an engine change is already permitted, this could well be race
for mechanics and towtruck drivers!!!!!

Damn, entries are closed.... I could have entered the golf, and had a shot
at a top 10 position :~}

Terry

    For those intrested here's the entry list . One presumes final but I
    get the idea that there could be some missing.
    
    
    1	Peugoet Talbot sport	905B	Warwick/Dalmas/Blundell
    2   Peugoet Talbot sport    905B    	Baldi/Alliot/J-p Jabouille
    31  Peugoet Talbot sport    905B    	Wendlinger/A.Ferte/Van de Poele
    3   Euro racing             Lola    	Zwolsman/Cor Euser
    4   Euro racing             Lola    	Jesus Pareja
    5   Mazdaspeed              MXR01   	Sandro sala/Yorino/Terada
    92  Mazdaspeed              MXR01   	Herbert/Wiedler/Gachot
    7   Toyota team TOM's       Ts010   	Lees/Brabham
    8   Toyota team TOM's       Ts010   	Lammers/Wallace/Fabi
    33  Toyota team TOM's       Ts010   	Sekiya/Rahanel/Acheson
    34  Kitz racing/SARD        Toyota cv92     Ratzenberger/Elgh/Irvine
    35  Trust racing            Toyota CV92     Fouche/Andskar/Johansson
    9   BRM Motorsport          BRM             Taylor/Toivonen
    21  Bernard de dryer/action spice           De Dryer/Taverna/Gini
    22  Chamberlain             spice           Lesseps/Piper/Lacobelli
    36  Chaimerlain             spice           Harada/Shimamura/Yoshikawa
    23  Geepee Jaguar           XJR12           Coyne/Paulin/'Stringdrace'
    38  Geepee Jaguar	        XJR17           Randaccio/Barerio
    27  RM Motorsport           spice           TBN
    29  Team SCI                Tiga-Ford       Smith/Veinata/Gellini
    30  TDR Limited             spice           Ikentani/Cohen-Olivar
    51  Porsche Kremer Racing   962-K6          Reuter/Neilsen/Lavaggi
    52  Porsche Kremer Racing   962-K6          Donavan/Rickett
    53  ADA Engineering         962C            D.Bell/J.Bell/Needell
    54  Courage Competition     courage c29s    Wolleck/Fabre
    55  Courage Competition     courage c29s    Brand/Robert
    56  Courage Competition     courage c29s    Lopez/Saldana
    57  Welter Racing           Peugeot spider  TBN
    58  Welter Racing           Peugeot spider  Gonin/Perrier
    59  Noel del Bello Racing   Norma-alfa      De Bello/Lecerf
    60  Team MP Racing          ALD-alfa        Touroul/Pachot
    61  Bonnet Autoracing       Debora-alfa     Bonnet/Termblay/Heuclin
    62  Martin Crass Racing     Pro-sport       Hodgett
    63  Don Farting Racing      Pro-sport       TBN
    64  Chris Taylor            Pro-sport       Ashley/Morrison/Trimmer
    65  Chris Taylor            Pro-sport       Murrels/Adams/Sheldon
    66  Bellefriod/Ren car      Peugeot-spider  De vita/Thibault
    67  Primagaz obermaier      962c            Yver/Lassig/Altenbach
    
    
    	Garry

    
    
    	In good fine tradition at Le Mans, apart from consumming large 
    	volumes of Alcohol, To relieve the bordom and of course a change of 
    	enviroment. Any body plan on meeting up at the Champagne Umbrella
    behind the pits this year.??????
    
    
    Garry 
    

Most probably c u there after all the 3.5l cars have retired and only 962's
are running round. About 22:00 :-)

I'll be dead easy to spot as I should be the only other Brit there, I mean
who else is going to bother.

Ian.

    you better re-phrase that .  There's 5 in the group I'm going with a s
    a further 10-15 from the office here. You can see that it's only the 
    drunkards going......
    
    
    
    see you there 
    
    Garry

    
    
    Any one heard anything about who has and who has not turned up for the 
    scrutineering for Le Mans. Scrutineering closes at 3pm French time ,
    Right???? 
    
    
    	Will the grid be 38 as listed or less????????????
    
    
    	Garry

    
    3 Pugs, 3 Toyotas, 2 Lolas, 6 Porsches and...
    
    14 2CVs, under the national championship regs! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    
    At lease the 2cv's would add the light entertainment while the tow
    trucks go out and pick up the fixable cars. 8-)
    
    
    	Garry
    
    
    

    
    A whole week has gone by since Le Mans and still no comment?

    >> -<Did the revelers not come home? >-
    
    	Yes - see 1640.*  (Not the Not the WSCC note!)
    
    	Ian.

It is rumored that Le Mans have told FISA that their race will not be
part of the WSC next year.  If this is true, I see it as a very positive
development.  Maybe next year's race will have a decent-sized field.

Comments?

--PSW

    				See -.2

    Well just reading through autosport, seems like the tallons are out
    again between the ACO and Fisa. As already noted the aco have indicated
    that they will not be part of the SWC next year and they will run the
    race. Max Mosley is reported to not know anything about it, as the ACO
    have not made contact. The Aco are rather peeved as this is the 2nd
    year in the period of the agreement that FISA , or more inportantly ,
    sportscar championship has not met the terms or the agreement signed in
    1990. The best bit about it all is that Max Mosley has invited the
    president of the FFSA to resolve the matter, Who is the president of
    FFSA???? Good old JMB.
    
    
    Still on the sportscar front , rule changes on the horizon. The
    currently popular 2 layer rear wing will be banned and also the hight
    and possition of the wing. This is to stop teams designing cars that
    use the lower element of the wing to form an extention to the underbody
    venturi. Tony Southgate believe that this will reduce current downforce
    by 25% . Also the size of the fuel tank is to be reduced from 100 to 80
    litres and the numbers of gears in the box is to be limited to 6.
    
    Peugoet had been muted to be coming along with 4 wheel sterring. That
    has been banned, period. There has been no action on the latest F1
    technology making its way into sportscar, Active suspension ,semi auto
    gearboxs and fly by wire devices are at the moment fair game.
    Supprisingly the Leathal fuel cocktails used in sportscar racing remain
    untouched.
    
    
    	Garry

Anyone hear the result?

Terry

    
    Alliot/Baldi - Peugeot 905
    Warwick/Dalmas - Peugeot 905 (0.5 seconds back - staged finish)
    Lees/Brabham - Toyota TS01 (35+ seconds back)
    ???/??? - Lola (+8 laps)
    ???/??? - Mazda (+13 laps) 
    
    Hoy/De Lesseps  - Chamberlain Spice (behind the Mazda) 1st in FIA Cup -
    Took the FIA Cup with 100% record this season.
    
    A very dull race, especially once Todt imposed team orders and Lammers'
    car crashed.
    
    Mark

    - BRM will not reappear this year. They will concentrate on 1993.
    
    - Allard who failed to start this year are progressing with their
      innovative car.
    
    - Peugeot have presented version 2 of the 905, which looks very much
      like the Allard from the front. It is said to solve many of the
      problems encountered with the version 1 of this year. The V2 905, like
      the Allard, are very close to the "F1 chassis with covered wheels"
      definition.

    
    I read somewhere, could have been autosport, that BRM felt that they
    probably tried to push things too far too fast. They were going to
    develope the car rather than race it. 
    
    At Le Mans it looked and sounded fantastic, but as we all know it
    spent more time in the pits than on the track. The Following weekend at
    Watkins Glen it managed a couple of laps before dying. I guess some
    things never change. With Brm's current form, or rather lack of it,
    must bring back memories to those around in the 50's when Raymond May
    first pushed a BRM out of the garage ( and pushed it back ) .
    
    
    	Garry

Each year the 24h of Spa, which do not comply with any official FISA sort of
championship, is a big event. They run the belgian PROCAR series which is some
sort of variation around the german DTM rules (with more freedom). 

The cars involved look like road going cars but they can upgrade about anything
starting with the engine, the brakes, etc ...

This year, once again, Spa attracted 100000 spectators which must be contrasted
with the 8000 (paying ?) who attended last year's WSCC round.

The results:

Last year's winning 4WD Nissan took the lead as expected but was stopped by
a fire when refuelling after a couple of hours. It was then the Schnitzer 
team BMW M3 (Van de Poele, Winkelhock, Heger) that led up to the very last
lap when a totally exhausted Van de Poele let the Bigazzi Team BMw M3 pass.

1. Soper, J-M Martin, Danner	BMW M3			Bigazzi
2. VdP, Winkelhock, Heger	BMW M3			Schnitzer
3. Joosen, Hahn, B�guin		BMW M3			Bigazzi
4. Vandalen, Cremer, Verellen	Porsche Carrera 2	Semi works team
5. Grohs, Monthey, Alzen	Porsche Carrera 2
6. Bartels, Bobach, Barth	Porsche Carrera 2
   ......

    WSCC 1000km Suzuka

    1. D. Warwick/Y Dalmas (Peugeot 905) ......... 5h 30'09"627
    2. G.Lees/J-Lammers/D. Brabham (Toyota) ...... + 1 lap
    3. M.Baldi/P. Alliot (Peugeot 905) ........... + 8 laps
    
       Championship standings: 1. Warwick     90pts
                                  Dalmas      90
                               3. Lees        47

    
    And only 5 cars finished??
    
    Warwick/Dalmas are champions + Peugeot won the constructors title.
    
    

    Noone really knows what races will happen for the rest of the season as
    several events are already cancelled or threaten to cancel. In the
    worst case this could be the end of the season.
    
    Question: why did the manufacturers (Peugeot, Toyota) pay 2.5M$ to the
    organisers (to cope for lack of spectators) ? where did the money go ?

Can you say "Bernie"?

I'm not sure if there should be a :-) after that or not...

Dave

    
    The PC version of Bernie in this conference is MGB (I'll provide
    translation by mail if anyone can't work it out - M is Money and G is 
    grabbing!).
    
    Mark

..and B is Bernie ;-)

    
    Well it looks almost certain that there will be no need to have the 
    a sister note for 1993. Last night on eurosport news there was a report
    which basiclly said 1993 would not have a WSC. The reason being cited
    as there being no new cars in 1993, Mazda have no intention of
    developing the car further and if anything there will be less entrants
    than this year. I suspect that also with the biggest race of the year
    Le Mans, not part of the championship there's not a great deal of point
    in continuing. Sad but one can only agree. This season was a Joke and
    the prospect of next year being better look very slim.
    
    
    
    Garry

    WSCC Magny-Cours
    ----------------
    
    1. Baldi/Alliot	P905
    2. Bouchut/Helary	P905
    3. Lees/Lammers	Toyota
    4. Wallace/Brabham	Toyota
    5. Warwick/Dalmas	P905
    
    Peugeot Jean Todt offered a drive in the last WSCC race to 2 young F3
    champions: JC Bouchut and E Helary.
    
    Final championship standings
    ----------------------------
    
    Drivers				Makes
    
    1.	Dalmas	98			1. Peugeot		115
    	Warwick	98			2. Tom's Toyota	         74
    3.	Alliot	64			3. Mazda		 39
       	Baldi	64			4. Chamberlain (Spice)	 34
    5.  Lees	59			5. Euroracing (Lola)	 26
    ....				6. SCI Corse (Spice)	 17