Conference terri::cars_uk

Background

	My previous car was a Renault 5 GT Turbo, so an essential 
	requirement for the replacement car was for it to be fast (in 
	acceleration more so than top-speed), but also different.

	I fancied a convertible, especially after the last few summers, 
	but there are not too many decent ones around, the new Escort 
	looking positively ugly, the Astra not being the 16-valve and the 
	MX-5 being a rip-off price.

	To cut a long story short, i went for the MR2 GT T-Bar, ordered 
	it just before Christmas and took delivery 15-Mar-1991. It was 
	nice to get the car so quickly (garages were quoting 6 months 
	minimum), but i lost out on the price at �2470 per year - it has 
	now dropped by about �300.

	Most ot the comparisons below are to the R5, and any figures are 
	from the Autocar and Motor roadtest.

Running in

	This was to be a 600 mile report, but i just couldn't wait to put 
	the miles on, and am now nearly 1400 into the car.
	
	You are supposed to keep the car below 62MPH during running in, 
	but i stuck to keeping it between 2000RPM and 4000RPM which seems 
	a far more sensible technique (you can do 90MPH at 4000RPM!), and 
	don't brake hard for the first 200 miles.
	
	To be perfectly honest, now that the car is fully run-in, i still 
	down take it much above 4000RPM because you just don't need to.

Handling and Ride

	The car is very smooth and quiet to drive, much softer than the 
	R5, almost to the point of being sloppy. It is a completely 
	different ride, and to get the most out of the car you have to 
	_drive_ smoothly as well - it gets upset when you attempt jerky 
	mid-corner corrections. This took a bit of getting used to - you 
	have to set the car up for a bend much earlier than the R5 so 
	that it has settled down properly before any excessive forces 
	take effect. This is probably why the car got such a bad 
	reputation in the early days - throw it into a bend in an 
	unstable condition and it could easily get out of control - and 
	no, i have not got anywhere near this limit yet.

	The steering makes this harder to correct, as it is very low 
	geared and you need quite a lot of armwork when rapidly changing 
	direction. It is nice and light though, making the car relaxing 
	to drive.

	It does have excellent grip though, and being rear-wheel drive 
	with the engine almost over the wheels means that you can put the 
	power down quite safely.

	Being a couple of feet longer than the R5, you notice the ducking 
	of the car more during heavy braking, but is still feels firm and 
	solid. According to the Autocar road test it stops from 30MPH (in 
	neutral) in 29ft - so much for the highway code figures hey!
	
	No ABS, and i don't even think that it is an option.

Performance

	It just doesn't feel fast, until you look at the speedo! There is 
	none of that lovely turbo boost that the R5 had - i really miss 
	that, but when you appreciate that the car is much higher geared 
	(eg 100MPH in 3rd) and has 1500RPM extra to play with, you 
	realise why it gives such good acceleration figures without all 
	the drama (0-60MPH 6.7 secs, 0-100MPH 18.8 secs).

	I am still trying to get used to coming up to cars too fast when 
	planning a swift overtake. With the R5 you positioned behind the 
	target car, waited for the safe overtaking opportunity, pulled 
	out and overtook, with the MR2 you seem to be coming up behind 
	the target car at overtaking speed in the first place - you do 
	have to look much further ahead.

	Mid-range acceleration is good, eg 30MPH to 70MPH through the 
	gears in 6.5 secs, 50MPH to 70MPH in 4.6 secs, but again, it 
	doesn't _feel_ fast.

	Top speed i haven't tried yet (we are taking serious ticking off 
	by the boys in blue here if you get caught), but Autocar got a 
	true mean of 137MPH (with a best of 139MPH) so i wouldn't be at 
	all surprised to see 150MPH on the optimistic speedo one day!

	Economy - i haven't calculated the figures yet, but the govenment 
	says urban 28.2mpg, 56MPH 47.9mpg and the technically illegal 
	75MPH at 37.7mpg, on unleaded fuel.

Interior

	Fantastic!

	The T-Bar has soft leather seats as standard, and the drivers 
	seat has slide fore-and aft, back-tilt, seat-tilt, adjustable 
	lumbar support, adjustable side-back support, up-down and 
	forward-back head restraint, and with the tiltable steering you 
	would find it hard not to fit in this car like a hand in a glove 
	(once you got all the adjustments correct!).

	The dashboard is well designed and wraps slightly around the 
	driver. Most controls are easy to use - righthand stalk for 
	indicators/lights, lefthand stalk for wipers. I don't like the 
	horn button though, below centre on the steering wheel, because 
	you can never be exactly sure where to hit during a turn, so 
	pipping at sleepy drivers in mid-roundabout is awkward.

	I am amazed at the amount of storage space in the car. There is 
	room behind the seats for 2 large briefcases, there is a lockable 
	storage compartment behind the drivers seat (where i keep my 
	first aid kit and disposable camera for emergencies). There is a 
	large cubby hole behind and between the seats, ideal for 
	cassettes etc, a glove box and a nik-nak compartment beside the 
	steering wheel, plus door pockets and a map pocket behind the 
	passenger seat.

	One very nice little feature is that when you open the drivers 
	door, a green circle illuminates around the ignition key hole, so 
	you can find where to stick your key even in the dark.

	The stereo is excellent. Having 7 speakers in a 2 seater sounds 
	like overkill, but when you hear it, it sounds beautiful. Its got 
	traffic-flash monitoring (i haven't got a clue how this works), 
	built in sound contours for rock, jazz, classical etc, metal 
	tape, Dolby, (paper bag on your head) the whole business. I 
	wouldn't bother with a CD with a tuner-cassette as good at this!

	The lighting controls have a few niggles though. There is no 
	actual warning light (except for the dashboard lighting up) to 
	say that you have side or headlamps on, and neither is there one 
	for the front fog lamps. As the fog lamp switched are hidden down 
	on the righthand side it would be all too easy to leave you front 
	fogs blazing. Main beam and rear fogs have (by law) got warning 
	lights. When you flash the headlamps during the day, with no 
	other lights on, they politely pop-up, flash, and pop-back-down. 
	Unfortunately if you are driving with your side-lights on, they 
	don't retract due to the control logic, so the only was to put 
	them away is to turn all lights off for a couple of seconds. 
	Another bad design feature is that with the ignition turned off, 
	it is still possible to turn the headkights on, so some inconsiderate 
	b****rd could potentially flatten your battery if you park with 
	the roof open. There is a lights-on warning buzzer to stop you 
	doing this yourself accidentally though!

	Ventilation is good, with little buttons to press rather then 
	levers to pull, and air can be re-circulated for when you are 
	stuck in traffic behind a smelly lorry!

	The car comes with an alarm as standard, though it isn't a 
	"plinker". It doesn't use ultrasonics so you can leave the roof 
	open in the summer, and once set off it disables the ignition 
	completely until a correct entry is performed (i.e. with a key).

	Windows, mirrors and doorlocks are all power operated, and the 
	driver can lock the passenger window if required.

	Overall, the interior, in particular the dashboard, is better 
	than the BMW 325i that i had 3 years ago, both on design and 
	quality - and that is saying something.

Exterior

	It has *got* to be just about the best looking car on the road, 
	and black has just got to be the best colour (despite the 
	frequent washing that is required). The car is quite compact and 
	low from the outside, but looks solid and well made. Forget the 
	photographs, just see one close up in real life - gorgeous!

	All hoods (boot, bonnet, engine and fuel-cap) are remote control 
	from within the car, although the remote for the boot can be 
	disabled with the key to prevent passenger compartment entry from 
	emptying your boot as well!

	The boot is quite large, about 17" by 15" by 52", although the 
	access restricts items to a little less in total dimension.

	The bonnet storage is also quite large, but i only use it for 
	things that i don't often use - warning triangle, umbrella, roof 
	sun-screens etc.

	The T-Bar roof is tinted glass and has removeable interior 
	sun-screens. It is easily removed and replaced in seconds by 
	pressing a safety catch and pulling a lever, and is stored behind 
	the seats in supplied bags. It is a little tricky stowing for the 
	first few times, but you soon get the hang of it.

	The weather hasn't really been open-air temperature, but with the 
	roof removed, the side windows up and the heater on low, it is 
	very comfortable to drive, and not having the frame around the 
	window means that it feels as good as fully open, even with the 
	windows shut.

	The tyres are 195/60 VR14 front and 205/60 VR14 rear and are 
	uni-directional, so there is no way you can rotate them either 
	front to rear or left to right. The spare is a space-saver, good 
	enough to get you to the nearest garage - just hope they have the 
	correct size and side of tyre.

Engine

	Can't say a lot about this because i won't be getting to involved 
	in it (one of the few advantages left in having a company car). 
	It is a 2 litre, 16 valve, dohc with electronic ignition and fuel 
	injection and generates 158bhp @6600RPM and 140lb/ft @4800RPM.

	Some may consider it a little noisy, it does sit only a few 
	inches behind your ears, but i like it. It give a throaty roar 
	and if you get fed up with it, just turn the stereo up a little!

Summary

	If the car scheme ends in the next couple of years, i will buy 
	this car!

	You have all the comfort you require, open air in the summer and 
	yet hard-top warmth in the winter. You have all the gadgets you 
	require, making it a doddle to use and a pleasure to drive. You 
	have all the performance you require, and yet last Sunday i was 
	quite happy cruising along at 20MPH on empty country roads with 
	the roof open, the stereo on low and just relaxing.

	Is it really worth �10 per working day? ... It is worth every 
	penny!

mb

    
    How do you lock the boot to stop passenger-area entry allowing entry
    to the boot ??????.
                       Dougie_who_hasn`t_had_time_to_read_the_manual.
    
    
    p.s. Didn`t know there was a map-pocket behind the seat either...!!

    To open the boot, you either insert the key and turn clockwise or pull
    the remote lever beside the drivers seat (you know this!).
    
    If you turn the key anti-clockwise in the lock, it disables the remote
    lever, and the boot can only be opened by using the key (by turning it
    a bit more clockwise than normal).
    
    mb

    How close is the cost of an MR2 GT T-Bar to the 19,250 quid tax penalty ?
    
    -Dave.
    

    The standard MR2 GT T-Bar is just over �18,000 pre-VAT increase, so
    there should be plenty of margin to play with if you want to add a CD
    player or other simple options.
    
    I also think that the price that the tax man cares about is the price
    that the lease company actually pay at the time, and not the on the
    road price. These prices are usually discounted, thus leaving even more
    margin.
    
    mb

    �think that the price that the tax man cares about is the price
    �that the lease company actually pay at the time, and not the on the
    �road price. 
    
    This is much debated. I'm pretty sure the tax man is interested in the
    full ON THE ROAD LIST PRICE INCLUDING ALL EXTRAS.
    
    - Roy

    
    Sure is the full on-the-road price, and is the price at the time of
    delivery, not what the Lease Co pays.....
    
    
    Nev.

    Nevertheless,
    
    You are still safe with the GT T-Bar (unless you start adding Air
    Conditioning and the like!).
    
    mb

     
     What are the differences between the new MR2-GT and the new Celica, other 
     than �1K and the Celica having 2 more seats and the engine at the wrong 
     end?
     
     I recently was driven in a friend's new Celica and was suitably impressed 
     by the finish of the car.  Might even be able to afford one in 5 years!
     
     Yours interestedly, 
     Robert.

    Off the top of my head, the standard Celica has power steering,
    headlamp washers, 2 more seats (baby seat size!), the same engine,
    no front foglamps, no T-Bar roof, no leather-seats, a bigger boot,
    205 tyres both rear AND front, no pop-up headlamps ...
    
    Thats all i can think of now.
    
    The Celica does offer more, and was actually cheaper on the lease
    scheme than the MR2 GT T-Bar even though list price is more.
    
    I still chose the MR2 though!
    
    mb

    Thanks for the replies:-
    
    The Toyota garage opposite DECpark quoted me a list price of �18,412.74
    for the MR2 GT T-Bar (�17,073 for the straight GT).  They also
    mentioned a charge of �500 for delivery.  Does the taxman take this
    �500 into account or is it just the list price plus extras ?
    
    Anyway, the garage seemed to think that there would be another price
    rise before August which would take the price over �19,250 !!!  I
    couldn't believe this, so I got onto Toyota GB and spoke with their
    marketing department.  They said that it was *very* unlikely that
    there would be another price rise before September.  In fact
    September is the time when the 1992 model will be released with
    a certain price hike !!
    
    So the message is, "get your T-Bar orders in NOW, unless you like paying
    tax !!".
    
    -Dave.

>>    205 tyres both rear AND front, no pop-up headlamps ...

they have got pop-up lamps


...art

    art,
    
    oops, you are right, the Celica has pop-ups, though i can't understand
    the need for headlamp washers in that case!
    
    Oh, and the MR2 comes with a "Security alarm system" as standard but
    the Celica gets ABS.
    
    mb

    
    I think the real difference between the two Toyotas has more to do
    with character than components.  A mid engined sports car is bound
    to feel different to a front engined, front wheel drive, coupe. If
    you appreciate that difference, you may prefer the MR2. If you don't,
    go for the Celica...
    
    Bill.

    � If you appreciate that difference, you may prefer the MR2. If you don't,
    � go for the Celica...
    
    Or of course, you may prefer the front engined car's greater
    practicality and carrying capacity (not to mention the lack of noise!)
    
    Mark
    
    PS FWIW, I hated the Celica's vague feel, but I liked the MR2.

    One other difference
    
    		The MR2 is one of the best looking cars on the road
    
    		The Celica is the worst...
    
    A bit of a shame when the old Celica was a very well proportioned
    beast, still I s'pose thats progress for you :-)
    
    								G.P

    
    Re .16
    
    Here, here.
    
    Mark

    
    I suspect I'll grow to like the new Celica's shape. Eventually.
    
    That said, the new MR2 is attractive, but I still prefer the
    older model. Anyone know where I can get a supercharged old
    style MR2?
    
    Bill.

    
    Re .18
    
    Try the US Airbases (well local papers from the surrounding areas).
    
    Failing that talk to a car broker if you want a RHD model from Japan.
    
    Mark

    
    Have you noticed that when you drive the car with the roof off when
    it`s lashing down with rain,water drips off the windscreen surround
    onto the leccy windows/mirrors controls?Bit of a design fault eh 8*)
    8*)
       Doogz.

�                   -< If u go fast enough u don`t get wet. >-
    
    No matter how fast I go in my Jeep, the water runs down the back
    of the 'dashboard'.  Design fault - or plain old age ?
    
    J.R.

When It rains, I wear:

			In the summer; swimming costume
			In the winter; lots of waterproofs

in the landrover

That was a major gripe of the MR2 that I borrowed. At any speed, I used to get
water come in through the drivers window, if I used the washer.

    Tried closing it, Mark?........ ;^)

    What's the point of the MR2 having a burglar alarm that's deactivated
    by the door key ???  All the cars I've had nicked had the lock barrel
    removed.....so wouldn't that turn the MR2's alarm off at the same time?
    
    -Dave.
    

    Shhhhh!
    
    I am not going to try destructive testing on this one. I am guessing
    that the lock is a little more complex than a simple barrel mechanism.
    
    mb

    
     I assumed that the standard alarm was just a wee basic alarm,fitted
    to deter people from leaning in thru an open roof and manually 
    opening the door.If I wished a fancy alarm I can fit one but for now
    I can leave the car sitting in a relatively safe area with the roof
    off,windows down.I think it`s a good thing.

    Hello all,
    
    I've been reading your notes and comments with great interest re: the
    MR2 ...reason ... I've just ordered one. 
    
    About five weeks ago I was the "proud ?" owner of an Escort RS Turbo,
    then someone came along about 3:00am in the morning and changed all
    that. The boys in blue found it in a field in Ashford Kent, on its roof
    and burnt out ... it was a good car and I'm sorry it ended its short
    life in such an undignified way ( I know, some might say different !! ).
    
    I've had my eye on these MR2's since they first came out, change the
    badge on the front and your looking at a very expensive Italian sports
    car I thought. My next thought was .... I wont one !! My second thought
    was, how much ??
    
    In loosing my RS enabled me to go "shopping" in a serious way, so I
    booked a test drive of an MR2 GT T-Bar at my local Toy' dealer at
    Sandhurst. Dry roads, blue sky, Vrooooooom ! I was very impressed.
    The salesman red-lined it in just about every gear except reverse. His
    comment was "goes alright doesn't it" !!  It took my stomach 5 minutes
    to catch up with the rest of me, and I thought my RS accellerated well ! 
    
    He then jumped out and invited me to do likewise ... I didn't red-line
    it, but I gave it a fair amount of right welly, enough to realise I must
    have been driving around in my RS with the handbrake on all the time !!
    
    "I want one" instantly turned into "I'm getting one", the next thing
    was, how much on the car scheme ?? Unfortunately, the T-Bar was just
    too much, which is a great shame cos' I did like the feeling of sitting
    in the front seat of a Tornado jet fighter !! Next best, the GT, same
    engine, sun-roof, cloth seats, but most importantly for me, about �450
    cheaper ( I've got a sizeable mortgage to deal with and you can't have 
    everything !! ). The one I've just ordered is going to cost �2082 
    ( remember, my RS was only �909 ). I've ordered it in Red, my RS was 
    White and spent most weekends washing it, I understand Black can be even 
    worst and as for metalic Blue .. it just doesn't look right to me, maybe 
    I'm wrong ( I bet somebody out there will probably tell me so, each to 
    our own so they say ).
    
    I've requested delivery for 1st August, so it's down to crossing the
    days off the calendar ... roll-on.
    
    A couple of questions you experts might be able to enlighten me on ..
    
    The Alarm ... apart from cutting the ignition/fuel ?? does it make any
    suitable noises like, "BEEP BEEP BEEP" if someone opens the doors etc,
    uninvited so to speak ??  Secondly, I've heard some rumbles about the 
    rear end passing the front end with much gusto, if you take your foot 
    off the go pedal on tight-ish bends ( in the wet ) ... is it really that 
    bad ?? I wouldn't have thought so looking at the car and experiencing
    its grip in the dry, but what do I know.
    
    I look forward to your replies ( sensible ones only please ) and will
    update you on future events as they happen, until then ....
    
    Cheers,
    
    Ray.
    
            

    You made the right choice!
    
    Shame about not getting the T-bar though, my quote was �2470, but when
    the car came through it was only �2110, just a tad more than what you
    are/will-be paying.
    
    The standard alarm is pretty basic, it just sounds a horn rather than
    one of those electronic warbler type sirens. It doesn't bleep when you
    enable the alarm, so you don't p*ss the neighbours off when you get
    home in the early hours.
    
    Handling is good, there is an amazing amount of grip and once you get
    used to cornering "slow in, fast out" there is no problem with swapping
    ends. It actually encourages you to drive more smoothly, rather than
    chucking the car into corners, hot-hatch style.
    
    The best thing is that you don't have to drive fast, it looks fast
    standing still!
    
    mb

    The MR2 is a great car, but give me the Astra 16V engine any day.  The
    Toyota engine just doesn't seem to have the same pulling power...or
    perhaps it's the gearing.
    
    The convex wing mirrors are the biggest problem (to me!)....... Oh for flat
    glass.......
    
    But, it's a fun car - no mistake.
    
    -Dave.
    

    I borrowed a Calibra the other weekend ('cos you can't fit a patio
    table in an MR2) which has the same engine as the Astra 16V (?).
    
    I must admit that i was impressed by the amount of torque, it pulls
    strongly from well below 1000rpm, and i never really had to take the
    engine above 2000rpm while pottering around town.
    
    Aside from the nice engine though, nothing else compared!
    
    ;-)
    
    mb

    
    � Aside from the nice engine though, nothing else compared!
    
    True, you could fit the MR2's passenger and luggage space in the boot
    of the Calibra! :^)
    
    Mark

  >  I borrowed a Calibra the other weekend ('cos you can't fit a patio
  >  table in an MR2)
    
    Martin,
    
    I'm interested in your comments about this, as I'm seriously thinking
    of getting one myself.
    
    Was it the entire set from Texas, that was on special offer at �39.99?
    If so, was it worth the money?
    
    Ian.
    

>    Was it the entire set from Texas, that was on special offer at �39.99?
>    If so, was it worth the money?
    
    You spotted it!
    
    A Calibra, 4 seat pads, parasol and tablecloth for only �39.99
    (i.e. no VAT increase).
    
    If you wait 'til the autumn the price usually drops though!!!
    
    mb

    Did you not have an MR2 (old style) some time ago? How did it compare
    with the new one?
    
    Impressions of the cars handling depend very much on what car you are
    used to driving. Coming from the R5GTt i found it very hard to get used
    to the softer and less responsive feel of the MR2, but now after 3
    months my driving style has changed sufficiently to enjoy the new car
    just as much as the old, but in a different way.
    
    In response to a few of your points ...
    
>Handling/Steering:
>	The MR2 has good handling but suffers from a lack of feel in the 
>controls
    
    I agree that the low gearing on the steering spoils the feel, and also
    makes quick corrections (in the case of oversteer) difficult.
    
>	In the wet the novice to mid engined driving will have to be very
>careful as the back will pop out very quickly without a great deal of warning.	
    
    I still consider myself very much a novice to mid-engined driving, so i
    try to drive well within the car's (and my) limits. Even so, yesterday
    evening coming back from Reading across country in the pouring rain, i
    found myself taking long corners at high speed without feeling that the
    car was going to swap ends. It was only at VERY high speeds that the
    car started to feel as if it was balanced in the middle, and liable to
    start hanging out the back end, but we are talking speeds considerably
    higher than the speed limit and in the wet.
    
    The MR2 has far better handling than my BMW 325i, which felt as though
    you were on a knife-edge at the limit, with NO return from the far
    side.
    
>	Power steering on mid engined road car is ridiculous
    
    The MR2 definitely DOES NOT HAVE power steering!!!!!
    
>	The car was quite quick off the mark but not brilliant, as shown by the
>published acceleration times.
    
    	The car does not _feel_ fast, but it _is_ quicker than the R5GTt and
    the BMW 325i (old model). Is 6.7 seconds to 60mph too slow?
    
    
    	Of course the MR2 has its faults. The Calibra has a better engine,
    the R5GGt has better sideways seat support, the Ferrari F40 is faster,
    a Luton van has more luggage capacity (in fact a Wartberg has more
    luggage capacity!). Even so, i like it. What other cars are you
    considering instead of the MR2?
    
    Martin (me! biased?) Bell

    
    Er, just as a matter of interest, a Marcos has more luggage capacity!
    :^)
    
    Mark

    
    Fast Lane has the MR2 GT listed as 7.6 (Toyota figures) for 0-60 which 
    is slower than Autocar's 0-60 for the R5 GTT (7.2). Max. speed is
    listed as 137 mph (again a Toyota claim).
    
    I can personally vouch for the fact that anything which does 0-60 in 
    over 7 seconds would seem slow to the 23! 
    
    Mark

    T-BAR has all options, even has the new Toyota logo on the steering
    wheel.

	Just because I'm in a picky, awkward mood lately, I would
	like to point out, and not for the first time in this 
	conference, that MR2s are rear engined cars.

	-John

    
    In a similarly contrary mood, I'd like to point out that you're
    wrong - by the generally accepted definitions of mid and rear,
    and normal disclaimers applying, etc etc...
    
    Bill.

	If you wish to remain a disciple of marketing hype so be it.

	As for the MR2 GT, nice car, shame about the price.

	-John

    so John, how do you determine if a car is Mid engine or rear engine ?

    Mid engine = Engine in front of the rear axle
    Rear engine = Engine behind the rear axle (e.g Porsche 911,Alpine GTA).
    
    Grant

�    Mid engine = Engine in front of the rear axle
�    Rear engine = Engine behind the rear axle (e.g Porsche 911,Alpine GTA).
    
    So what is it if the engine is ABOVE or in line with the rear axle ?
    
    J.R.

A Mini going backwards ...

�A Mini going backwards ...

    Car magazine, in it's 'The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly' section, makes
    the following comments about the MR2-GT
    
    For: Amazing Value, stunning body.
    
    Against: Disappointingly flawed chassis
    
    Sum-up: So nearly brilliant.
    
    
    How does this 'disappointingly flawed chassis' manifest itself ?
    
    -Dave ?
    

>>    How does this 'disappointingly flawed chassis' manifest itself ?


it does remarkably accurate impressions of spin dryers!


(sorry Bill :-)


...art

    
    re -1.
    
    I don't think Bill would mind that last comment, assuming he's still
    got his old shape MR2.
    
    re -2.
    
    If you cast your mind back  a year when the MR2 came out, CAR ran a
    test and adorned their front cover with 5 pictures showing a NEW MR2  
    failing to take a corner succesfully.  They decided that the handling
    was not up to the older models.
    
    
    
    Nigel

    
    The new MR2 is, for want of a better word, a bit soggy. The
    combination of steering, which is slightly too slow, and suspension
    thats prone to diagonal pitching makes it less responsive and
    coherent than the old model.
    
    I've still got my old shape MR2, coming up to 80,000 miles now.
    Can't see me changing it when its still going so well. Following
    a 2.7 litre 911 in France, the MR2 was almost as quick (and rarer
    to boot!); then in Italy, a friend declared it as much fun as the
    Alfa Romeo SZ for tackling Stelvio.
    
    Bill.

    
    I don't know where you went in Italy Bill, but when in a restaurant in
    Monte Cassino (south of Rome), all the restaurant staff piled out to
    get a closer look whilst i was trying to order !  Then it was questions
    about how much.  They seemed disappointed at 25 million Lira.
    
    Done 37,000 miles so far.  I see a few more under the belt before i let
    it go.
    
    
    Nigel

    I would agree with Bill that the new MR2 is a little "soggy" in its
    handling, by sports car standards, but i wouldn't go as far as to say
    "flawed".
    
    The pictures in the cars mags last summer showed MR2's spinning all
    over the place - but you can spin just about any vehicle (even track
    laying vehicles) if you try hard enough. When the MR2 does start to
    slip, you have to be quick to catch it - but you shouldn't
    intentionally be drifting cars around corners on public roads anyway!
    
    Just to put things in perspective, i test drove the new Lotus Elan SE
    last week, and i would describe it's handling as "sloppy" when compared
    with the MR2 - due probably to the power steering.
    
    If the article worries you, get a test drive - and if you like it you
    can then wait the 6-8 months for delivery!!!!
    
    mb - stuck with his MR2 for 3 years - oh what a shame ;-)

    
    I seem to remember a Top Gear report which had Tiff Needell driving
    both the MR2 and Elan around a steering pan where the Elan just
    continued to grip while the MR2 span away.
    
    He prefered the 'excitement' of the MR2, but not everyone can drive
    like Tiff Needell (although looking around on the road, you'd believe
    they think they can! :^)).
    
    Mark

    Re: .58
    
> be desirable to have characteristics which frighten the driver and allow
    
    I frighten myself on straight bits of roads, never mind bends!!!!!
    
    mb

    <    If the article worries you, get a test drive - and if you like it you
    < can then wait the 6-8 months for delivery!!!!
    
    It doesn't really worry me.  I was just interested as to the basis of
    this 'flaw'.  I've had my T-bar for almost 3 months now and think it's
    a great car.  BTW - delivery was 2-3 weeks !!!
    
    -Dave.
    

    The new MR2 gets a good write up in the August 1991 edition of Motor
    Sport.  Talking about the handling flaws they said...
    
        "We found no such defect in the Toyota during road, track or
         grass track use, the latter allowing us to balance the car in
         long power slides with one hand.  While we respect those who
         have found fault with the model's track manners, we did not
         find anything other than a rather uninspired understeer in
         a series of of skid pad tests which only emphasised appalling
         driving habits......."
    
         "We tried quite a lot of tricks to unstick the back and it simply
          did not happen, though we know of one very experienced 
          journalist who did find the MR2 slewing unexpectedly away from
          him at Donington. 'I just decelerated on the way into the first
          (Redgate) corner, and it was gone so fast it surprised me', said
          the seasoned observer candidly."
    
    Another interesteing comment was:-
    
         "Our MR2 GT provided less absolute driving excitement over twisty
          sections than a Peugeot 205/309 GTI, which seems a slight
          betrayal of its mid-engine layout."
    
    -Dave.
    
     

    October (or is it November ?) CAR magazine has a back-to-back test and
    mentions that the new models have different tyres than last year, which
    seems to have "cured" the handling "problem".
    
    BTW.  Any one who is a regular noter in here or UK_DIGITAL will have
    seen my notes about the new car scheme and "How it cost me money"
    because my Escort 1.6S got canned.  Well this seems an appropriate
    topic to admit that the week before last  took delivery of a new Solar
    Red *MR2 GT* Think I'll now crawl under the desk to avoid all the
    "flak" sure to come my way :-) 
      
    				   The reasoning goes something like this
    - Cancelling my cheap car meant I couldn't move house this year so I
    decided to treat myself, also I found I could (just about) afford to
    run my GPX750 after all (see GOOFOF::MOTORCYCLES).  I have also decided
    to try to get my 1975 VW bug back on the road (see AIRCOOLED conf) for
    those occasions when I need 4 seats. If anyone in Warrington with a
    large estate/van gets the offer of the loan of an MR2 for the weekend
    some time next year you'll know I've decided to move house after all !!
    
    
    Stevie (Very broke - but happy)

    
    Hi Guys,
    
    
     Well I've had a MR2 for about 1 year and I would agree with most of
    what has been said in the NOTES. But have you tried changing the tires.
    If not its worth a shot!!
    
    The CRAP that TOYOTA Uk shod their "Sports Cars" with is a load of
    C**P.
    
    Give a set of Yokos a try and 
    
    	" Loose that quick slide"
    and " White Lining"
    and " fast rear end break"
    
    and enjoy
    
    	"controlled slide"
    	"no whiting"
    	"and cleaner underware!!!"
    
    

Mike,

	did you have Continental or Bridgestone tyres fitted previously?

In a recent test done in Performance Car, the RE71s came out top!


mb

p.s.

Surely you must use narrow tyres for "white lining", i reckon that they
are only about 4 inches wide on most roads, or am i missing something like
where the switch is to turn the paint on?????

>>Surely you must use narrow tyres for "white lining", i reckon that they
    
    If you have a de Lorean, it follows the white lines and sniffs them up !
    
    J.R.

    RE .64
         You may well be missing something. cars rarely suffer from the
    effects of white lining, but motorcycles are a different subject. The
    effects of white lining are usually that the tyres slide side ways
    across the white line, thus loosing friction, thus causing unwanted
    loss of intended line. In a car all four corners are castored so the
    vehicle stays relatively stable, but try it on a 1000cc superbike that
    plants 138bhp through 3sq inches of rubber and you find that the front
    wheel slides to the left and the rear wheel spins and slides to the
    right. Looks impressive but feels awful.
    The cause: thermoplastic road dressing has different frictional
    properties than the standard tarmacadam/concrete and tyres find it
    quite difficult to grip add water and the problem triples..... 
    
    Alan..                                                        

>>         You may well be missing something. cars rarely suffer from the
>>    effects of white lining, but motorcycles are a different subject. The
    
    I can see your point, but beg to differ.
    
    Cars do suffer from 'white lining' problems, but obviously not to
    anywhere near the same degree that motorbikes (either the more
    powerful versions, or lesser models) will definitely suffer.
    
    
    The problem arises on cars that have low-profile tyres, especially when
    of noticeable width.  The car will then be quite happy to try and
    tram-line along any surface imperfections (tar or white lines), or to
    follow the camber of the road even when the driver doesn't really want to.
    
    J.R.

>>
    quite difficult to grip add water and the problem triples..... 
>>
    At this mornings temperatures the problem more than triples....
    
    Elaine 

    
    And those bl**dy yellow lines they put on motorway exits increasingly
    close together. Cars with big tyres spend most of their time with no
    grip, I find!
    
    Mark

    
    Mine died last night on the way home,just driving along when the engine
    just conked out.Little "engine" sign lit-up on dash board which
    according to the hand-book means "Take car to nearest Toyota dealer"
    which is quite difficult if the car is completely dead on the hard
    shoulder of the M8.Had the car towed to the nearest service station 
    and had a quick look.Found the 40A fuse for the AMU(Which I assume is
    some sort of engine management system) had blown.Swapped this for the
    heater circuit 40A but car still wouldn`t run.
    Towed car home and had Toyota dealer pick it up this morning(Which
    meant I had to borrow the wife`s car to get to work this morning.....
    ....The dreaded Astra from Hell!!!!).Phoned him up there and apparently
    the "Ignitor unit"(Take it that is the ignition coil in the real world)
    was totally full of water.
    Weather,although frosty,has been quite dry recently so only thing I can
    think of is that MR2`s electrics slowly fill up with water.Has anyone
    else had this experience?.Apparently they don`t hold the replacement
    part as stock so it`ll have to be brought up from England over-night,
    hopefully to be fitted tomorrow.
    Suppose the Astra is better than walking(JUST!)
                                                   Dougie.

    I like the shape of the MR2 GT , except for the rear spoiler . The
    basic MR2 , without spoiler , looks a lot better. 
    
    Is there much difference in the specification of the MR2 and the MR2 GT.
    
    Anyone driven both models?
    
    

Yup,

GT has a more powerful engine (still 2litres), the other has a CAT.

GT has front fog-lamps and spoiler, tuther hasn't

There are probably a few other minor differences (like price!)

mb

        <<< Note 1410.73 by SEDSWS::BOND "Open the pod-bay doors HAL" >>>
    
>>    I like the shape of the MR2 GT , except for the rear spoiler . The
>>  basic MR2 , without spoiler , looks a lot better. 
    
    Well that's your opinion (and you're perfectly entitled of course),
    however yours is the first comment I've heard/seen that favours the
    base model, in fact I've never SEEN a base model on the road. 
    Personally, I think it's one of the most "integrated" add-on spoilers
    about, I particularily like the way it follows the line of the car when
    seen in side elevation.
    
    But then again, I'm biased.  :-)
    
    
    .Stevie.   (Red MR2 GT, Red Kawasaki GPX750, Vomit-green Beetle 1300)
    

    
    Well here's vote No 2 for the base model. think it looks much better
    than the spoilerd version , without its a bit 348'ish which is
    proberbly what they wanted to emulate in the first place. I've actually
    thought about buying one of these, the only thing putting me offhas
    been the interior which on the ones I've seen tend to be very (IMHO)
    tacky, and really let down what looks like a very nice motor.
    
    Garry, ( Blue Raleigh, white trollies and brown stripe !! )
    

    Just for the heck of it
    
    My wife and I both reeally like ther new MR-2 with a spoiler, but hate
    it without!
    
    Just goes to show really, if everyone had the same preferences life
    would be dull!
    
    Greg 

    for your info :
    
    Current Belgian and Danish MR2 GT prices are available in note 1188.157
    Interesting stuff for people who want to import such one can be found
    in 1188.132 - 1188.*
    
    rgds,
    
    Hartwig (still driving an old-shape MR2)
    
    

    Thanks Hartwig.
    
    My need is not pressing, nor am I looking for an MR2. However, I'll
    meet you one lunch time; I'm in Keiberg II.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    Hi,
    
    I'm very interested in purchasing a new-style 
    MR2 at the end of its DEC-lease.
    
    Does anyone know of one becoming available in 
    the next three months or so? 
    
    Please mail me, David Blackmore @REO. 
    DTN 7781 1173 
    
    Many thanks ...

    As they've only been out about a year, it's unlikely that one'll be
    available for another 2 years!
    
    Richard

    Anybody notice that you can't open the sun roof at 
    100 mph ??. 


    GaryW.

             <<< Note 1410.82 by KERNEL::WITHALLG "Gary Withall" >>>
                                 -< 92 MR2GT >-
>>    Anybody notice that you can't open the sun roof at 
>>   100 mph ??. 
>>    GaryW.
    
    
    Is this a serious note ?  Wouldn't it be too noisy ? (not that any
    of us would drive above 70 anyway :-) ).
    
    Do you mean that this is due to air pressure, or what ?
    Personally, given the MR2's susceptibility to cross-winds, I don't think
    I'd take a hand off the wheel to operate the sunroof at 100+, if I ever
    drove at that speed, which of course I don't :-) (Honestly, officer).
    
    Stevie.

    
    re <<< Note 1410.83 by WARNUT::RICE "A human resource" >>>
    
    >Is this a serious note ?  Wouldn't it be too noisy ? 
    
    nope, even with the roof off on the T-BAR version you can still hear
    the radio playing whilst doing 100 MPH (though you do have to turn it
    up pretty LOUD!!!!!!!!)
    
    POL.  :-)

    Hi,
    
    I just stumbled on this note while looking for the latest word on F1
    for next year. I have a 91 MR2 with about 58K miles on it! I still
    think it's a great car. Mine has a 130 HP engine which is plenty fast
    for me. In the States Toyota sells to models 130 HP non-turbo and the
    200 HP turbo. I drove a turbo model with K&N air cleaner and HKS
    exhaust system (220+ HP). 
    
    No that was a quick car. You have to be VERY careful in the rain, with
    it, or else it will break away so fast you'll think you are in a F14 in
    a flat spin (remember the movie Top Gun).
    
    One sad note though...I hear that the MR2 will have one more yesr left
    and then Toyota will drop the model 8-(
    
    								-mike-

Re: .84 T-Bar version

Oh come on now, you may be able to hear the stereo, but i bet that
you can't _open_ the T-Bar when doing 100mph ;-)

mb

    
    <<< Note 1410.86 by BRUMMY::MARTIN::BELL >>>
    
    >Oh come on now, you may be able to hear the stereo, but I bet that
    >you can't _open_ the T-Bar when doing 100mph ;-)
    
    I'd hate to try it
    
    I'd have visions of it doing a Michael Schummacher rear wing in Hungary
    :-)))))))))))))
    
    POL.

   Re sun roof at 100 +..


    Yup I am serious.  I actually thought that the lock had jammed
    or something. Then when slowing to 85 ish -  whoosh up it goes.

    
    Reading the comments on the radios- 

    I have trouble hearing mine with all the windows closed and the 
    roof shut. Full volume is reasonably loud but no where near what
    I would call TOO LOUD. I do not get to a distortion point and 
     0 - 95% volume is real naff.


    Another thing with the stereo that someone may be able to help
    with is this...

    I have a portable car CD player - a SONY CAR DISKMAN. To get
    this to work you place an audio output (?) tape into the tape 
    deck and press play.  The trouble is that the tape must play in
    one direction for the CD to work. The player in the MR2 plays
    both directions and you can't appear to stop it flipping from 
    side to side and then ejecting the tape ?????????????.


    Advice welcome.

    Im resigned to changing the stereo for another that I have.


    GaryW

I am surprised that you think that the radio isn't as loud as you would
like. Sure it ain't MotorHead strength, but you must remember that the
internal volume (spacial, not sound) of the car isn't very big, so you
will not get the same effect as you would in a bigger car. Do you have
the seven or eight speaker model?

On my (1� year old) GT-T-Bar, i rarely need to set the volume above
12 O'clock, although above 140mph with the roof off, it does fail to
drown out the wind even at max volume.

mb

>    I have a portable car CD player - a SONY CAR DISKMAN. To get
>    this to work you place an audio output (?) tape into the tape 
>    deck and press play.  The trouble is that the tape must play in
>    one direction for the CD to work. The player in the MR2 plays
>    both directions and you can't appear to stop it flipping from 
>    side to side and then ejecting the tape ?????????????.


Is it a Philips ?


If so, I was given the following instructions from one of their technicians at 
the NEC car show...I too had this problem.

Put a normal cassette into the player, switch to CASS 1   remove normal 
cassette from player.   Insert dummy cassette into player, it should now 
accept it, hook up your Sony to all the wires etc. - enjoy !

Worked for me !


I am now less annoyed with my Philips RDS radio/cassette than I was...

    .89
    
    Buy a better stereo? Extra Amp? Must be able to fit something like a 
    boom-tube behind the seats, maybe an 8".
    
    
    					Lewis.

    GT- 
    
     burst radiator after 20,000.
    
     Hacking up the m6 from Basingstoke, pulled into the hotel after 3.5
    hours and off she went all over the floor accompanied by a loud
    screaming noise. 
    
    
     Poor girl should have gone before we left.
    

re.92:

The M6 now goes to Basingstoke?

Dave ;-)

    No, from, even the M6 doesn't want to go TO basingstoke.
    
    Richard
    
    

    Were you driving hard prior to your stop ?
    
    I try and do the last mile or two slower (maybe about 50, keeping the
    revs to about 1500) prior to a stop after a bit of high speed driveing
    (ie 80-90mph). Lets the engine calm down and the turbo cool a bit.

    Excuse my ignorance but I didn't think the MR2 GT had a turbo ? I
    thought it was just a 2.0i 16v ?
    
    -tony (wouldn't be the first time I was wrong)

�             <<< Note 1410.96 by NEWOA::DALLISON "Iraqnaphobia" >>>

�    Excuse my ignorance but I didn't think the MR2 GT had a turbo ? I
�    thought it was just a 2.0i 16v ?
    
    I think Mr. Carson was refering to his Supra Turbo. Mind you, I
    wouldn't call 80-90mph, high speed in a Supra. Just ticking over
    surely? 8^).

    PCH.

    Sorry, i forgot to mention it was a Supra. 
    Yes, 90mph is about 2900rpm in top gear for me.

    
    I know its childish but the evening shift on a Friday can be a real
    drag so I'll do it anyway ...
    
    100 replies !!!!!!

    re .99
    errr... corection, that should have said 80mph.

    This time - not on the M6 towards WARRINGTON - 
    
    from Basingstoke - 
    
    
      Kerbside front brake stuck permanently on. . NO i have not hit the
    kerb at any time either :-). Apparently it is a problem that the Lexus 
    suffers from as well. And while Im on the subject I now have a 12"
    scratch on the rear drivers quarter.
    
    
    It has not been a happy time for me and my mr2. 
    
    One pleasant thing that I have to say though is what a wonderful garage
    Wadham Kennings in Woking really is. It is a real pleasure going into
    there and not only do they remember my full name but the registration
    aswell.  This is my first Toyota, if this type of service continues it
    won't be my last.

    
    Well, now I guess I should be looking at a replacement vehicle. One of
    the cars I'm considering is an MR2 GT T bar.
    
    I'm a big guy (6.2, broad) and I wondered if any other big guys in here 
    drove MR2's. Do you experience problems climbing in and out of the thing or 
    have you noticed any back/neck complaints ? I expect to do about 25-30k 
    miles a year made up mainly with lots of short runs (15 miles +/-) ie, 
    lots of climbing in and out. Maybe I'm worrying without reason but I
    thought it would be worth asking.
    
    -Tony

Tony,

	the T-Bar will be better, because it gives slightly more
headroom than the sun-roofed versions. Even so, 6'2" may be a little
tight - i am 5'10" and with the seat upright my head touches the top.
I usually have the seat tilted back, but then it depends on the relative
length of your arms and legs as to whether you can position the seat
in a comfortable position. All i can suggest is you find someone with
a T-Bar and see if you can fit inside! The seats have a width adjustment,
so hopefully they can be set to suit your broadness.

No back problems so far, and getting in an out surprisingly easy,
especially when compared with, say, a Lotus Esprit.

If you do lots of miles on motorways then you _may_ find the car a little
noisy, as the engine is only inches away, but that depends on what you
are used to. I don't mind, and if your 15 miles +/- are on "fun" roads
then you will really enjoy the car.

Cheers,

mb

    
    A friend of mine is 6.5,and v.large and he seems to fit in one.
    
    
    
    
    
    	It's amazing what the human body will endure just for an image!
    
    Andy
    

    Thanks for the help guys, going to try and get a test drive soon.
    
    -Tony

    I test drove an MR2 GT last week at DECpark during the Toyota demo day.
    I found it very cramped for my 6'3" frame; reminded me of the days that
    I drove a Mini. My head was right up against the roof and the steering
    wheel and pedals felt uncomfortably close; any long distance driving
    would have resulted in cramp. Not a car for anyone over 6 foot (let alone
     6'5"). Other than that the car handled well but was a bit noisy.

    
    I've submitted a quote for one so fingers crossed. If I decide to go
    for it what sort of delivery time can I expect ?

    
    
    Burnt out XR2i  
    
      			=   MR2 GT.
    
    
    
    I'll except a cheque for what seems a job well done.
    
    
    		Nudge,Wink.
    
    	Andy     ;-)

    
    Andy, sod off!!! ;^)
    
    Well, after visiting Bracknell Toyota Octogan on Saturday my mind is made 
    up. Going for a GT T-bar with metalic Aqua-Marine paint (sort of metalic 
    dark green, looks gorgeous; not one of these light hairdressers colours!). 
    Just waiting for my quote to come through to see if I can afford the 
    Toyota CD player too.
    
    Anybody have any ideas as to how much the CD player would sting me for ?
    
    -Tony

    re .110
    
    Good luck with your new MR2 GT T-Bar. I have the same car (130 HP US
    version) with the same aqua-marine colour here in New Hampshire... I'm
    sure you'll like it.
    
    								-mike-

    
    Tony,
    
    	Don't bother with CD.
    
    
    
    
    
    				Get a Wheel clamp,Alarm,Rotweiler.
    
    Andy..
    

    
    Bit late for feedback,  but Im 6-1 and find my MR 2 Gt no problem at
    all. A mate of mine is a Body Builder.  5-9 and 15st - he finds his
    really comfortable and he has had speakers built in behind the seats
    whih cuts down the room.
    
    
    I like mine. and its Aqua Marine also.
    
    Gary

    How come I know *TWO* people who now have or are about to orderthis
    dang hairdresser/stylist car!
    
    Tone... it's beneath you (but you used to have a Charvel, so that might
    explain it)
    
    Gary... If you drive the above pram like you drove Kevin Banks Belmont
    that night in Hemel Hempstead.... you deserve something, I just can't
    place what!
    
    Bob

    
    Bonzo, get back to yer Audi ;^)

    On a different topic.
    
    My tyres are nearly due for replacing again; when it was new it had
    205/60 VR14 *BRIDGESTONES* on the back wheels but when I replaced them
    last time the ATS garage told me that Hertz probably wouldn't allow
    Bridgestones again because of the wear rate etc, so they fitted
    Michelin MXV's (ATS is a Michelin subsidiary).  This time I went to ATS
    again to get more tyres, there is still 3mm left but the handling has
    really "gone off" - not that I'm blaming my spin the other month on
    that you understand, however Hertz wouldn't authorize new tyres until I
    get down to 2mm (legal limit is 1.6mm).  Conversation between me and
    the Hertz "controller" then went something like this:-
    
    Hertz: Sorry we can't authorize replacement until 2mm reached.
    Me: But the handling is rubbish.
    Hertz: What speed are you driving at when the handling is rubbish ?
    Me: Er.... "Normal" speeds ! Anyway the ones on it have lasted a lot
    longer that the original Bridgestones.
    Hertz: What are they ?
    Me: Michelin MXV's.
    Hertz: You're NOT ALLOWED Michelins, we have had a technical bulletin
    from Toyota, under NO circumstances are we allowed to fit anything
    other than Bridgestones . In this case we'll let you change them straight 
    away.
    
    
    So, there you have it - Original equipment tyres are not only allowed,
    but in the case of Bridgestones on MR2's, are MANDATORY.  So as far as
    Hertz leased MR2's with Bridgestones are concerned all the arguments
    I've seen in CARS_UK about permitted tyres are settled.  Don't know how
    this will affect anybody else, I mean the Hertz man told me to only
    expect about 10,000 out of Bridgestones, so PHH people are knackered to
    start with. I'm also unclear what happens to newer MR2's (15" wheels)
    with Yokohama's ?
    
    Steve. (happy to get rid of the MXV's)

    < Note 1410.116 by WARNUT::RICE "A Watch company with a Burgundy Logo"
    
    I spoke to Toyota about tyre replacements and they stated that the MR2
    should only be fitted with Bridgestones. This was passed onto Hertz.
    Another colleague spoke to Toyota and they suggested that the tyres are
    only good for about 9000-10000 miles. Toyota have been in touch with
    Hertz over this, so Hertz should be aware of this.
    
    POL (who averages 10500 miles per set of rear tyres)

    I think that's what I was saying  :-)  Of course, if you are THE person
    responsibe for causing Toyota to make Hertz aware then I am in your
    debt.  Whatabout the poor sods with PHH cars though ?
    
    The "problem" was caused last time by ATS trying to flog tyres made by
    their parent company, Michelin.  They didn't even check what should be
    fitted (apparently) they just told me straight out that Bridgestones
    wouldn't be allowed, of course at that time I didn't realise how
    susceptible MR2's were to tyre design, in fact I think Toyota are only
    now just getting it right as current MR2's run 15" rims with
    Yokohama's.
    
    Stevie.

    
    
    Bob,
    
       Im much improved now .
    
    
    Anyway I thought my handling was exceptional; given the conditions.
    
    Gary

    
    Its done. My order is in for a GT T bar. No extras other than Metallic 
    paint (Aqua-Marine) and a VSL alarm.
    
    -Tony

 Hi Tony,

 Just read about your quote submission, don't be surprised if you get a
 mail back from fleet that the car is already on the preferred list ,ie, 
 the MR2 quoted on the list is actually a GT-T-BAR!
 I have thus submitted a quote (which I should receive this week) including
 the option of a single play CD system (not the multi - its tight for space
 in the boot as it is!!). I will enter the quote as soon as I get notification.

 Regards,

 Stewart Piesley @HHL 

    
    Hi Stewart,
    
    Already sussed that one mate, I've ordered it from the basket list 8^)
    
    -Tony

 Hi Tony,

 I was going to do the same thing, but a colleague put a quote in for the 
 Nissan 200SX (Which is on the preferred list '47' price 1824 pounds) with
 options of - Multi Cd player,metallic paint and electric sunroof. The quote
 he got was 1840 pounds!!!!. Therefore I thought I would try a quote with
 an option first - I will keep you posted.

 regards,

 Stewart.

    Arrgghhh.. I hope for my sake that you're wrong this time 8^)

 Hi,

 Just got the quote for MR2 T-BAR with single play CD:

 
Subject: Your Quotation :- TOYOTA MR2 T-BAR 2.0 COUPE
Driver Price    : �1854
Lease term      : 36  months / 36,000  miles
Quote number    : 015501 Date requested : 28 MAY 93 Quote expires on 03 JUL 93
Extras          : As requested.

 It was worth getting the quote don't you think??

 Stew.

A lot of dosh for a car that's gettiong as common as
Cavaliers in Digital car parks!!!!


	Ian

  ..so you are saying a driver cost of 2100 pounds on the preferred
  list for a  CAVALIER 2000 GSi 4DR  is cheap??
  At least the MR2 has a unique shape, I can't tell the difference
  between the 1.8L and the GSI cavalier!

  Stew.

No, I was just making a comment about the number of MR2
drivers at Digital - or is it DEC?


	Ian

    
    There are many many Porches on the road, but it doesn't stop people 
    wanting to buy them. 
    
    -Tony

Re 1410.126


		:-)



	Ian

    
    
     Ian, 
    
          at least I was the first to get the Aqua Marine colour.

     Oh yes - nice Calibra. ;-)
    
    
    Gary

but what are all these MR2 drivers going to do in April next year when they find
out how much the tax man is going to clobber them? 8-[

GSi2000 - 2100 quid 

	typical car fleet, they haven't made them for some time now ..........

	as for not being able to tell the difference between a 1.8L and a GSi,
I'd visit your optician SOON.

AC

    
    Charming !
    
    Julie.
    

    
    Sick?
    
    BTW I have mailed him off-line

    
    Bwahahahahaha!!
    
    Of course thats the difference between people with MR2's and people
    without (me included in the "with" 'coz I'm waiting for my errr...."Muff 
    magnet" as he puts it).
    
    People *with* MR2's *can* afford them ;^)
    
    -Tony (talking out of my botty?)

    <<< Note 1410.136 by NSDC::KENNEDY_C "Going places ...." >>>
    
    
     BTW I have mailed him off-line ??
    
    
     So, 
    
       you never actually said anything other than you do OK  in your
    old Bedford ?. What was the point of mailing me offline ?
    
    Gary

    I've set .134 hidden and mailed Gary about.
    
    Some folks may find it offensive.
    
    Royston

    
    Note .134 deleted, due to some who found it distasteful, and others who 
    have had sense of humour bypass ops.  :-)
    
    
    Regs.
                                             
    Gary

    
    Fortunately, we don't all have the same sense of distasteful humour !
    
    Julie.
    

    I thought it was funny so I guess that makes me a freak too.
    
    -Tony

Well Gazza, 

I found the note extremely offensive and totally misleading. I drove an MR2 
last night and had a very uneventful journey home.


Ian

    I found it hilarious Gary, and there was you worrying that >>I<< upset
    people!!
    
    Phil Gill.

	To say  1410.134  was distasteful  and shocking is an 
	understatement.

	Gary you should be ashamed of yourself.
  	


 	I Mean :  "...not only do we have smart cars we also 
	have a lot of wimmin"
                     =======                                            

	What if my Male 6ft 5" other half finds out about my 
	sordid secret life !!???  :-)
	
	Sandie (aka Alexandra, most definitely female !) ..../

	PS:Out of interest, does the term  'Willie Magnet' 
	exist as a  concept then  ? ;-)

Mod,

please delete the last reply. I find the quoted statement in the last 
sentence very offensive.

Ian

 

....I think its a complete Phallacy...

Stew.

	I missed it, can someone tell me the joke please?


	Heather

>>	I missed it, can someone tell me the joke please?
    
  Well it all started with .134 which claimed that the MR2 was the best car for
  picking up 'wimmin', apparently by exerting magnetic attraction on a certain
  part of their anatomy.  The phrase used to describe this unusual phenomenon 
  was deemed to be possibly offensive, and consequently the reply got hidden.

  .145 seems to be by a wommin MR2 driver who asks whether the logically
  complementary concept of phallic attraction also exists, though as she admits 
  to having a 6� foot "other half" the question may be rhetorical.

  Does that help?

  ~sam.

    8^)

    So are we saying that MR2 drivers are complete dicks, then?
    
    Laurie.

    
    
    Thats another way to put it I'spose Laurie.
    
    
    Re-  Sandie -  yes - it would probably attract mine - but then thats no 
    recommendation !!!!.
    
    Ian Fischer -   say no more - say no more ;-)
    
    Gary                              

    re .150 Are you any relation to Viz's Mr Logic?
    
    Phil Gill.

    >>  re .150 Are you any relation to Viz's Mr Logic?
    
    	We do have something in common.
    
    	~sam

    
    Got my delivery date through; 5th July 1993.
    
    T minus 19 days encounting (slobber slobber, drool drool).
    
    -Tony 

    
    
    
    I ordered mine on Monday, just before the recent car scheme
    annoucements and am eagerly awaiting a 'order confirmation' memo from
    car fleet!!! 
    
    I took the GT T-bar straight from the preferred list, as I heard the
    various rumors flying around and decided I had better order it asap. 
    
    
    Graham
    
    
    P.S. Anyone want to buy a Renault 5GT Turbo?
    

  Same here , just got my confirmation message for my 'yummy yummy'
  MR2 T-BAR with single play CD - which is quite a few squidleys less than
  the preferred list price!!

  Stewart.

  P.S - Graham how may clutch cables and turbo fans have you replaced??!!

 Just got my delivery date. its the 1ST September - YUK! At least there
 will hopefully be a bit of the summer left. 
 BTW its says in the mail that this an anticipated delivery date, and 
 it might be sooner? is this true is there a chance or am I just being
 hopeful??

 Stewart.

    re -.1
    
    Generally speaking you can ignore the mail. The garage will contact you
    when they want to deliver, so it could be alot sooner/later. I had the
    garage contact me before I got the mail message which turned up a
    couple of days later.
    
    Dave.
    

    
    re .158
    
    
    I have only been through one clutch cable, Wheelers of Newbury have now
    fitted an uprated one (if there is such a thing??), which seems to have
    lasted. I've had no trouble with the rest of the engine, turbo included
    and mine has been uprated. 
    
    
    Graham

    
    1st September ? Ouch! Could have been worse though...
    
    ...could have been *my* car that was delivered that late 8^)

  
 ...it will take two months to transfer your CD collection to tape!!...

 Happy tapeing,

 Stewart.

    
    re: CD collection to tape 
    
       Why ? I ordered a cd player in mine.
    
       Just found out my delivery date is incorrect and it's not the 5th of
       July 8^( 
    
       Its the 30th June. Next Wednesday. Ahem.......
    
       -Tony

 Am i mistaken but you ordered off the preferred list - Re: 1410.122??
 Therefore how come you have a CD option with it??

 -Stewart

    
    Nope, I changed my order. See note 1538.689.
    
    5 days to go.

  OK OK...I'm just turning a kind of lettuce green with envy!!

  Givus a verdict when u get it, especially concerning the CD player.
  BTW - How does the VSL alarm differ from the standard one??

  ~Stew~

    
    Its a remote control movement sensor jobbie. 
    
    I think there's a topic in here about VSL alarms. Any pointers anyone ?
    
    -Tony

    
    Yeah!
    
    
    	Turn it on and you might keep your Toyota longer than the Fiesta!
    
    
    
    Andy     ;-)

    8^P

 Have I missed something here ~ in joke? or has my I.Q regressed?

 ~stew~

    I think we're ratholing the MR2 note.

    Well, took delivery of my MR2 GT T-bar today.
    
    Slurp drool drool.
    
    Got it this morning, done 200 miles already, this is a NICE car!
    
    
    -Tony

Tony,

200 miles on the clock when you received it. I would complain...


Simon (do I really need to put a smiley here?)

have you pulled any wimmin in it yet? I'd have thought
with 200 miles on the clock, that'd be about 5.


	Ian

    re .176
    
    Not this notes thread again!
    
    ;^)

    
    
    And I never even prompted him.
    
    
    
    Ian your sick.
    
    
    Gary

    
    Well, had mine for 5 days now and clocked up about 900 miles in it.
    
    Performance : Very quick once the revs hit about 3.75k rpm but
      	 	  until then there is a noticable drag. Might be because
       	          the thing is still a wee baby & still needs some time to
    		  loosen up a little. My old car was geared differently and
       		  the power seemed to be a little more evenly distributed 
    		  through the rev range, but the MR2's seems to be saved 
    		  for the end climax of 4k+. Top speed ? Haven't got a
    		  clue...I haven't exceeded 90mph as I'm still getting used 
    		  to the handling characteristics.
    Handling :    Amazing. Having previously driven a standard 1.6i front
      		  engined, front wheel drive this was a REAL difference. At
    		  first it just didn't feel 'right' going into the corners, 
    		  it felt sloppy and unsafe but *I* eventually loosened up 
    		  (as opposed to the car) and started to trust it a little 
    		  more and the thing hasn't let me down yet (and I've taken 
    		  some bends at bloody silly speeds). Still getting used to
    		  it though. Obviously with the weight distribution (55% at
    		  rear, 45% at front) you have to think about a corner
    		  first; you can't just throw the thing into it and expect it 
    		  to come out smelling of roses but with a little thought and
     		  taking the right line the results are great fun.
    
    Comfort :	  Exellent seat support, all facilities are practicle and
    		  well within arms reach.
    
    Stereo :      Wicked 8^) Even with the T top off.
    
    
      -Tony

    Is this where we start the argument about "running-in"?
    
    Laurie.

    Got fer it.

    
    
    Just had a delivery date of the 9th August for mine, hopefully this means
    I should get the new L reg.
    
    
    Graham

    
    Well, 1400 miles later and its getting smoother, much smoother.

re .-1 (Yawn!)

Any ideas when the MR 2 will get a facelift, or be replaced?
It's getting on for 4 years old now. Most japanese cars are
replaced or facelifted every 4 years. 




	Ian

    
    The current MR2 is the new MR2. The 'improvements' are the wheels,
    colours, steering, pas etc... 
    
    -Tony

    I heard a rumour that Toyota were going to cease production of the
    MR2 within the next couple of years.
    
    -Dave.
    

    RE:-2
    
    
    Tony,
    How do you manage to fit any girls/women in your MR2 if you have
    to take your hairdressing gear around with you?    ;-)
    
    
    Andy.Haircut!  Haircut!

    Its easy, they just form a queue outside ;^)

 Hi peeps,

 Have a new date of 4th Aug!!!, will this mean I will have an 'L' 
 reg??
 
 Stew @HHL

    �4th Aug!!!, will this mean I will have an 'L' reg
    
    I would expect so. Normally the lease cars are registered on the day
    before or same day as they are delivered.
    
    Royston

    
    
     My Mr2 span on frosty roads this morning. The road was straight and I
    was doing an honest 30. I was actually in Jays close nr Viables and
    span just outside ITT's.
    
    I could feel it trying to go all down the road. Anybody else
    experienced their Mr going awol. ?.
    
    
    
    Gary

    Gary,
    
    	Yes, I have a 91 MR2 over here in the States.....and you have to be 
    	VERY careful when driving in the winter! It's very easy to wrap the 
    	car around a tree..as did Car and Driver magazine during their
    	winter driving of the car...
    
    								-mike-

    Hee hee hee....
    Join the club  :-)
    
    Last year -
    Mine spun at 45 after a roundabout - I always put it down to the
    non-oem tyres (they were Michelin MXV instead of Bridgestones).
    It definitely couldn't be driver error, no not me, never been known :-)
    
    I just remembered  - I spun it 3 weeks ago in a blizzard as well, this
    time it was due to not realising how quick the Bridgestones wear out.
    40 mph - gentle bend and downhill slope, last in a line of
    *front-wheel-drive* cars noticed a BIG red sign which said REDUCE SPEED
    NOW, ooh-err, changed down from 4th to 3rd, gently let up the clutch,
    complete loss of control, 180 degree spin, backwards down the road. 
    Ended up across the road before a blind bend, stalled and wearing my
    best pair  of brown trousers.  Fortunately the oncoming traffic was
    only light and must have been going slow as I got it started and drove
    2 miles back in the direction I came from before I was able to find a
    junction to turn around.
    
    Where was this - the Derbyshire Peak District, not far from Blue-John
    mines on the road that goes from Chesterfield and joins the A6 near
    Buxton.
    
    Stevie.

    
    MR2 is off the road with front break caliper problems. 2nd time around
    for this fault. Toyota cannot supply parts and can't confirm part eta.
    Fault is found on J reg only (apparently)
    
    For two weeks Iv'e been in a Mondeo and I feel seasick all the time.
    
     Gary

    I seems unfair that you have to continue paying the extra on the lease
    cost of your Mr 2 (not to mention being taxed on it) when it is off the
    road for a long period when they will only replace it with a standard
    hire car.
    
    Royston

    
    
    Royston,
    
           that was my comment to the nice man at Hertz. This was a Digital
    requirement from Hertz...
    
    I did ask them to swap the loan and now Im getting a Calibra this PM.
    
    
    
    Better than the Mondeo, even if I do have to lie down in it...
    
    Gary

>    Better than the Mondeo, even if I do have to lie down in it...


Gazza,

If this is what you get up to in the back of Calibras it's
a good job you didn't borrow mine after all.

Ian

    
    I had an H reg MR2 which consumed 2 sets of front calipers, not to
    mention the warped rear disks. Obviously you have a similar driving
    style ;-)
    
    Mike
              

    
    Mike,
    
     its a design fault.
    
    
     I blame my father and his history of drug abuse !.
    
    
    Gary

    
    
    Had the caliper replaced on my K reg '92 MR2 last month so the problem
    is probably not just confined to the J reg models.
    
    Anyone noticed how the wheels crumble before your eyes at the slightest
    whiff of road salt ?  
    
                          
    Graham Warnes