Conference terri::cars_uk

    I just got rid of my 405GR 3 months ago after 43,000 miles.
    
    Good points:
    
    - road holding/suspension
    - plenty of low down torque - pulls like a train even in 5th gear
    - excellent economy - 37.5 MPG averaged over the 2-1/2 years I had the
      car
    - good long distance car - we did several 400+ mile trips with 2 large
      teenage sons + luggage
    - plenty of interior space + comfortable
    
    Bad points:
    
    - developed a really annoying rattle in the dashboard
    - short on headroom with the electric sunroof - I'm 6'1"
    
    Bottom line - I would have had another *if* the headroom problem had
    been fixed.
    
    John
    

    Can anyone make sense of the current 405 advert, where some guy
    gets to 'play in the snow' ?
    
    J.R.

	Nope, but it makes a change from flames...

	Dave

    re-2
    
    It is to advertise the road holding abilities of the 405 4x4 I would
    think.
    
    Grant

    
    Methinks its some crud to do with the suspension.
    

�    It is to advertise the road holding abilities of the 405 4x4 I would
    
    I initially assumed that, but the advert draws no attention to
    4-wheel-drive.  The bull at the start mentions something to do
    with suspension/transmission/who-knows-what.  What was it ?
    
    J.R.

At one point they show the badge - its an SRi, not either the GL4x4 or 
the Mi16x4

/. Ian .\

What ever it is advertising, it works.  You all now what to find out more.

Somebody who now whats find out more will in fact buy one.

Simon

�Somebody who now whats find out more will in fact buy one.
    
    Not in my case.
    
    But I see your point - someone finding out more
    is 'more likely' to buy one, compared to someone
    who has taken no notice at all.
    
    Further on that, I remember reading (and believing) that a large
    percentage of people buy a new car without even taking a test drive
    of that particular vehicle - let alone trying out the competition.
    
    I think this was especially true of Golf GTi owners.
    
    J.R.

>>    Further on that, I remember reading (and believing) that a large
>>    percentage of people buy a new car without even taking a test drive
>>    of that particular vehicle - let alone trying out the competition.
>>    
>>   I think this was especially true of Golf GTi owners.


well you don't really need to drive the car if you already know what the 
image/pose factor of the car is

I don't suppose many people buy cars on their ability but more on convenience
and image...


...art

�I don't suppose many people buy cars on their ability 
    
    Shame - but so true.
    
    How else would an 'average' car be top of the sales league, if
    it were not for advertising hype and the fact that most buyers
    do not think to try out the alternatives ?
    
    J.R.

    I'm now reading the ad about the 405 TCI in front of me: I quote:
    "The secret is Peugot's Integrated Chassis Design (ICD) .. it's not a
    bolt on gimmic, but a fundamental ly different approach to chassis
    design."
    
    It extols/ it's superb rear suspension, increadable front suspension,
    unbelievable bodyshell (superlative by me :-)) ..." so rigid in fact
    that our designers have refused to niclude a folding split rear seat
    because it would affect the the bodyshell, and consequentyl compromise
    handling" 
    
    In other words, it's a new marketing angle to hype how good the
    handling is!!
    
    Richard

    .12� that our designers have refused to niclude a folding split rear seat
    .12� because it would affect the the bodyshell, and consequentyl compromise
    
    Do they listen to their engineers (however brilliant they may be), or
    do they listen to their customers who buy the cars!!?

    
    Re .12 & .13
    
    Read as 'As our car is so flimsy that the seat back is structural!'
    or 'our accountants said a split seat would cut the profits too much'.
    
    Take your pick! :^)
    
    Mark
    

    Assuming you've typed that in correctly, I hope their car-building
    skills are better than their grammar and spelling skills.
    
    Laurie.

I'm a bit surprised, as the 405 has been in production now for what, 3 or
4 years, that they have only just discovered this new thingy in their
suspension.

Or is it just more marketing hype......

Peter

(whose white shirts are no whiter than 10 years ago, even with the advent
of ultra super duper washing powders.......)

    Sounds like Marketing hype to me.
    
    Grant

I've just seen a quote on the scheme for a Peugeot 405 GRDT with a "Lowering kit
for driver's seat".

Could the quote submitter (or anyone else) tell me by how much this kit lowers
the seat? When I visited the local dealer and mentioned that headroom was a
problem for me on this car, otherwise it was great, they said nothing about this
kit, although they did tell me you could order a 405 GRDT without the standard
sunroof. Can you get it for the passenger seat as well?

Any info. much appreciated.



SD

    This probably wasn't my actual quote, but I did get a lease 405 estate
    with the drivers-seat-lowered option. It is advertised as lowering the
    seat by 20-30mm depending on the exact model. That doesn't sound much,
    but it can make all the difference.
    
    I have the sunroof and I find it doesn't cause a headroom problem since
    it is so wide that I fit into the sunroof space - perhaps having a
    pointed head helps. With the inner panel always pushed back I have
    plenty of headroom (I am 6'3"). If I sported a Chancer hair-style then
    there would be trouble, but anyone who knows me will realise that that
    is the least of my problems.
    
    Dick
    
    

    I'm thinking of PXing our 1988 (E Reg) BX14E for a 1990 (G Reg) Pug 405
    GL 1.9 Estate 63,000 miles, FSH, ex-company owned and very clean
    externally (except for a the front bumper having been scraped along the
    side). All the tires are good, the engine bay very dirty (needs a good
    gunking down),

    I've looked at the maintenance history and all the stamps are there but
    I'm feeling uncomfortable at the mileage. Am I being silly at being
    over cautious? The asking cost of the vehicle is 5995 and the garage is
    offering 3200 for the BX. 
    
    Any advice from the panel re is this a good deal or a bad deal would be
    appreciated.
    
    Dave

1988, that's just over years at 12,000 average per year, ie. 36,000.

Considering I don't believe in average mileages because I've done 15,000 miles 
in 12 months in my 1000cc Mini and that's just going home every 3/4 weeks to 
Suffolk and driving too and from work, then that would put the average per year 
to 45,000 miles.

And as it was a company car probably used for at least 5,000 business miles a 
year then that would work out as:-

	60,000 miles in three'ish years.

I would'nt say it was a very high mileage but I would suggest you change the oil 
as soon as you get it as it's crank wear you've got to watch for in high mileage 
cars IMLAHO. (In My Limited And Humble Opinion)

    Just bought a 405 SRi, 3 years old, 45000 miles, service history, very
    clean, 12 month guarantee from Mr Pug.
    
    Now for the problems:
    
    In 2 months and 2500 km of local motoring (not much high-speed
    stuff), the oil level on the dipstick has gone from max to min.
    According to the Pug mechanic, it's normal for an SRi to consume
    1 litre of oil per 1000 km (!!)
    Excuse me, but my old 305 GT, which has the same basic engine 
    (1900 cc but without injection) and which has done over 100,000 miles,
    still doesn't use a drop.
    Before I start the threatening behaviour, what does the panel think
    of this "1 litre of oil per 1000 km" nonsense?
    
    A second, but less important problem, is that the engine is often jerky
    at constant throttle openings. It's as if the injection system is
    delivering the fuel in bursts. It doesn't always do it, so it's hard
    to demonstrate, but again smug Mr Pug just tells me it's normal for
    this car. Pah.
    
    Anyone else had either of these problems?
    
    Thanks,
    Andrew.
    

    .22�    According to the Pug mechanic, it's normal for an SRi to consume
    .22�    1 litre of oil per 1000 km (!!)
    
    Bull*****, 1 ltr per 5000km is OK no more. Have you had the compression
    tests done ? This is something I always ask for when buying a 2nd hand
    
    .22�    of this "1 litre of oil per 1000 km" nonsense?
    
    see above

    
>    In 2 months and 2500 km of local motoring (not much high-speed
>    stuff), the oil level on the dipstick has gone from max to min.
>    According to the Pug mechanic, it's normal for an SRi to consume
>    1 litre of oil per 1000 km (!!)

	I often find garages who say this type of thing to me, being female
	and not knowing anything about cars, I do something like:

	Say, really mr. mechanic, I find that very odd, but I understand that
	if this is the way it's designed, then its the manufacturer that has the
	problem, please put this in writing for me so I can follow it up with 
	them.

	They say, opps, before you do that, just let us have another look.

	The thing always gets fixed.

	In fact, thinking about it, I get worse than this, last time it was

	"but madam, your sunroof is designed to leak!"

	Its funny how good these mechanics are at fixing design faults.

	Heather

I have a 1988 405 SRI which I bough @ 24K, now has 50K miles.
It does drink oil, but obviously various on how you drive the car, and how many
miles the engines done. I put a litre in approx every 1K miles (not Km).

Somewhere in the 405 handbook specs. it mentions oil consumption. I think it was
1 pint every 700 miles (I haven't got the book handy).


I had a bad experience with the electrics; specifically the fuel pump & associated
relays. The car showed this by uneven revs at constant throttle over a few days.
Then the engine cut out completely. Three relays had blown, Pug garage couldn't 
find a problem. Same thing happened two weeks later. Took car to different Pug
(main) dealer, who also couldn't find problem. This cost me about #360.00 in
total parts & labour. I wrote to the first garage stating that I didn't think
they'd repaired the problem properly. Got no reply in 2 weeks, so wrote to Pug
UK restating the history. They replied promptly, saying the garage hadn't
received my mail (ha ha) & I should take the car back whenever the problem
reappeared for free tests. They also arranged with the garage to have my next
major service free of labour + free valet (worth around #150). Fortunately
(or unfortunately) the engine never had the problems again (this was Feb '91)
and I dreaded a failure on the motorway (I'd been 'lucky' and been near town
centres when the engine failed before).

The fix by the second garage, was to put a higher rating relay on the fuel pump.

The only time the engine should appear jerky is at low speed/revs in start/stop
driving. It's a known feature ;-)

    Thanks for the input.
    
>Somewhere in the 405 handbook specs. it mentions oil consumption. I think it was
>1 pint every 700 miles (I haven't got the book handy).
    
    Yes, I've just found this in the handbook. It says � litre per 1000km,
    which is more or less equivalent. Nevertheless I still find this
    excessive in a modern engine. 
    
    At 1 litre per 1000km, mine is clearly worse than it should be, but
    at least the Pug mechanic now agrees with me. His proposal now is that 
    they add some oil and see if it does it again. If it does, they will 
    take the engine apart. 
    I'm not sure if this is good news or bad news. :-( 

    .26�    Yes, I've just found this in the handbook. It says � litre per 1000km,
    .26�    which is more or less equivalent. Nevertheless I still find this
    
    Umbrella statement. They can't be sued.

    I've had several 405 SRi's, and still drive one and only once I've had
    the problem of oil consumption; that was with a brand new one. The
    problem dissappeared after 10.000 km.
    
    I'd say, get rid of your mr. Pug. 
    
    Sjaak, who tried many, *many*, MANY, *MANY* Peugeot dealers before
           finding a good one. That took me about 5 years !!

	Rather than start a new string I thought that I'd reopen this one.
	My wife and I are looking for a car to replace her current lease
	one - we're taking the money and running.  What we want is a 
	largish estate (plenty of room for two adults, two kids + junk).
	One possibility is the eponymous estate.  I've test driven it 
	and it seemed quite good.  Handling was reasonable, little body
	roll and it went reasonably well.  It was remarkably quite inside
	even at high speeds (but there again, the MG is remarkably noisy).
	Any good / bad comments on this car?   Oh and I should say that
	my wife currently drives an SRi so 0-60 in 16s is definitely out.

	Thanks

	Dave

    I'm pleased with my GRDT - goes well (when you get used to where the
    power comes in) an at 43 MPG its a lot cheaper then my Volvo 740 Estate
    was....
    
    Jc
    

My father has just changed his leased 405 for an Xantia. He was
happy to get rid of it as it had started to burn oil at 30000 miles.
When he was looking at Xantias the Citroen dealer saw his 405 and
asked whether it was burning oil. The dealer said it was a common problem.



/Paul.

Re .29
 >      Handling was reasonable...
        
	I don't think they come any better! I've never seen a magazine
	group test that put any other estate ahead on handling.

	For what it's worth, I'm exceptionally pleased with my 1.8GL
	after 3	months.

	Ian.	

    
    A mate of mine had a 405 1.9 GRi (I think it was GRi anyway, but it was
    definately 1.9i) - he did 200,000 miles in it, and got through 3 (yes
    three) engines. You'd think that might have put him off. He now drives
    a Rover 216Gti and says he'd have the 405 back tomorrow.
    I had a few drives of it and thought it was an excellent car, and the
    new one (or rather face-lifted one) is better still.
    
    Al.

	Yep, I've just bought the 405 1.9 (carb) estate, 2 years
	old and 15K miles.  It comes with a year's parts and labour
	warrenty.  Before I made an offer I took it out for an hour
	and toured up and down the M3.  I thought that it was 
	very nice.  

	Dave

 >   A mate of mine had a 405 1.9 GRi (I think it was GRi anyway, but it was
 >   definately 1.9i) - he did 200,000 miles in it, and got through 3 (yes
 >   three) engines. You'd think that might have put him off. He now drives
 >   a Rover 216Gti and says he'd have the 405 back tomorrow.

I wouldn't try to compare a 216 GTi to a 405.  They are aimed at different parts 
of the market.  If he prefers the 405 then he shouldn't have considered a car 
like the 216.

    >> Why did he go for the 216?
    
    Money was the prime consideration, he was buying 2nd hand and the Rover
    dealer gave him a good deal. He's not particularly unhappy with the
    Rover, but after 20,000 miles of the Rover, he prefers the 405 - which 
    handled better and was quieter on the Motorway. 
    The Rover build quality is superior though.
    He didn't know he preferred the 405 when he bought the 216, looks wise
    there was not much in it, performance wise the Rover is probably a bit
    quicker in a straight line.
    
    Al.

    Time to re-open this...
    
    Does anyone have any 405 brochures to hand?  I offered to give the
    internal boot dimentions to someone and now notice that all my handbook
    says for the saloon is "13.7 cubic feet".  Failing that,  anyone got
    a ruler?
    
    Jc
    

    Saloon or estate?
    
    As you've referred to the "boot", I assume saloon, and mine's an estate...
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    I did indeed mean saloon.  Mine is an estate also.
    
    Jc