Conference terri::cars_uk

    Has anybody got the route for the RAC this year? I carelessly binned my
    Autosport that had the details in it. I'm particularly interested in
    any midland stages (Notts, Staffs, etc) as that is about as far north
    as I can get in a day.
    
    ta in advance
    
    Paul

    
    Congratulations to Louise Aitken-Walker for becoming Britain's first
    World Champion rally driver.
    
    She took the title by dint of her main (only) competitor, Paola De
    Martini, not entering for the RAC Rally, which she would have had to
    win along with the Ivory Coast rally (which she didn't start in despite
    entering), to take the championship.
    
    Hopefully the next few years will see a male champion from Britain as
    well.
    
    Mark 

    Does anyone know when the 1990 rally will commence?
    
    Any dates when it will be televised?
    
    thanks,
    Rob.

 Anyone got the route, as I will be going up to see as much of the RAC as 
possible, but havent found anyhting which has the route, times etc in it.

Thanks in advance.


		 Alan
		~~~~~~

    No, I don't have route details, but see reply .0 on this topic.
    
    Offer your services, then I am sure you will be given details...
    
    Otherwise, I would expect Motoring News and Autosport to provide
    information in the week beforehand.  Possibly find a preview in
    Rally Sport or Rally Car magazines too.
    
    Besides that, how about guesses as to who will win the event,
    overall/in classes, who will be first retirement from front runners
    and so on.  At least it is a lot less predictable than F1 (well,
    depending on whether Lancia or Toyota bring factory teams).

    AUTOSPORT does include a Lombard RAC Rally Spectator Guide this week.
    
    I see that Wally Woollard will not be presenting a nightly programme,
    bl**dy Beeb don't want to spend license money I suppose...
    
    Top Gear will include a preview tonight, next week will show
    results and highlights.
    
    BBC Sportsnight results + highlights on Nov.28
    
    BBC Grandstand will show a 1-hour BHP production on Dec.1
    
    Eurosport/BSB/Screensport will of course show plenty.
    Pity I don't have cable or dish TV.
    
    Autosport News line available on 0839 123124
    33p per minute cheap rate, 44p peak rate
    NOT ON DIGITAL'S TELEPHONE BILL.
    
    
    Rally Details :-
    
    Sat.24th - Rally Show/scrutineering in Harrogate
    
    Sun.25th - Harrogate/Rudding Park/Harewood Hill/B.S.Scunthorpe/Rother
    	       Valley/Chatsworth/American Adventure (Nottingham)/Wollaton
    	       Park/Clumber Park/Harrogate
    
    Mon.26th - Harrogate/Boltby/Ingleby/Guisborough/Langdale/Dalby/Wykeham/
    	       Gale Rigg/Cropton/Harrogate
    
    Tue.27th - Harrogate/Hamsterley/Pundershaw/Broomlyinn(Kielder)/Craik/
    	       Cardrona/Elibank/Yair/Falstone/Redesdale/Newcastle(Gazzer?)
    
    Wed.28th - Newcastle/Harwood/Ogre Hill/Newcastleton/Kershope/Castle O'Er/
    	       Twiglees/Wythop/Comb/West Grizedale/East Grizedale/Harrogate
    

    
    and of course if you have access to a Teletext TV the results are
    updated every five  minutes or so... (BBC page 392 (?))
    
    /. Ian .\

    For anyone who is interested, but does not yet know the result :-
    
    Carlos Sainz (the Word Rally Champion) won in a Toyota.
    
    During the event, the lead was held by the following cars :
    
    Subaru Legacy
    Mitsubishi Galant
    Toyota Celica
    Lancia integrale
    
    There may have been others, I do not know full details.
    Certainly a few more variables in the results than in F1 races...
    
    
    BTW, Top Brit. was Colin McRae, in a Ford Cossie (4x4).

    
    And once again the Group N World Champion is Alain Oreille driving
    a 'showroom-spec' Renault 5GT Turbo. 
    
    Once again the Cosworths, Integrales, et al were left trailing in the
    wake of the Renault!
    
    Mark

�    And once again the Group N World Champion is Alain Oreille driving
�    a 'showroom-spec' Renault 5GT Turbo. 
    
    And once AGAIN the Group A World Championship Manufacturer is LANCIA
    
    As for Group N - I know they call it 'showroom-spec', but that is
    stretching the truth somewhat...
    
    Good luck to Renault anyway, they are the only manufacturer
    who really seem to compete in Group N for the World Title.
    (albeit because they do not have a car suitable for Group A)
    
    Any idea how they fared on the RAC though, I believe
    Gwyndaf Evans was leading Group N by a very significant margin
    early on (in a Cosworth).  Were Renault in the running in this event ?
    
    J.R. (still obviously biased)

    
    It just goes to show that the two best cars have won again! :^)
    
    Anyway, Renault didn't take part in the RAC as they would have needed
    to win Group N to get ANY more points (what reliability!) and, to be
    honest, the 5GTT is more of a Tarmac car than a gravel car (although
    the Ivory Coast win last year and top 3 placing this year, prove it
    has lots of reliability too). However, the competition eliminated
    itself early on the RAC and left Alain with his 3 point lead.
    
    Mark

�    It just goes to show that the two best cars have won again! :^)
    
    Unfortunately (for Lancia fans), it appears that the RAC winning
    car AND driver combination could now be the best for next year.
    
    Carlos Sainz is undoubtedly top driver (he won the championship).
    
    This year (and others before), Lancia have had the best car (or team).
    Toyota have been catching up for some time and may now have the
    best car (turbo intake restrictor seemed to harm Lancia more, as
    far as engine output is concerned).
    
    Mitsubishi are also 'up there' in Group A.
    
    Ford and Subaru are currently on their 'learning curve'.
    
    I wonder if JM-B and his crowrd are ever going to do anything
    to enforce their original ruling that Group A rally cars are
    not allowed to produce more than 300bhp.
    
    If they do, all top teams would be caught out, some more than others.
    
    The intake restrictor mentioned eariler is not enough to do this.
    
    (Note that this was originally intended for all forced-induction
     engines, but VW complained and got the G-Lader engine through
     without this handicap -
    			 but it still doesn't 'cut it' with the 'big boys')
    
    J.R.

    
    Interesting comment on Grandstand last night;  This year's RAC was the
    first year that pacenotes were allowed, most of the top drivers have
    said that this encouraged them to go faster and therefore make the
    rally more dangerous.....
    
    Nev.

�    first year that pacenotes were allowed, most of the top drivers have
�    said that this encouraged them to go faster and therefore make the
�    rally more dangerous.....
    
    It is generally agreed that pace notes will cause drivers
    to go faster - they 'know' what is or is not coming up...
    
    I did read a comment that indicated the difference between successive
    years of the Scottish Rally when pacenotes were introduced.
    
    That said that half of the stages were faster, whereas the
    other half were actually slower.  This shows that the drivers
    slowed down when they knew they were approaching a hazard,
    and that they speeded up when the way was 'clear'.
    
    Of course, pace noting at 20mph or so does not highlight many
    of the features (such as slight yumps) which become much more
    important when traversed at rally speeds.
    
    J.R.

    
    Re: 5GTT Group 'N' winners.
    
    Are there classes of Group 'N'?  Or did a front wheel drive 1400 cc
    turbo car really beat 4WD 16v Integrales over a championship?
    
    Shame Renault couldn't be bothered to take part in the RAC. Won't 
    they be fined for not turning up ? - or has J-M B not asserted his
    effluence on the rally world yet? :-)

    
    Yep, OVERALL winner of Group N.
    
    No fines for not doing rallies.
    
    Mark

    
    
    RE .14
    
    Exactly the point, Kielder is famous for being 90% 'yumps', hence the
    higher than average number of 'offs' this year.
    
    Nev.

�    Yep, OVERALL winner of Group N.
    
    Lancia do not enter Group N as a factory team.
    Most of the teams they 'support' also enter Group A,
    so yes, Renault did win overall. (Horses for courses).
    
�    No fines for not doing rallies.
    
    Although I think it is being considered that the World Championship
    be run on a 'enter every event' basis in the future (J M-B at work),
    with possible fines for non-appearance.
    
    In theory, this would increase manufacturers presence in the rally
    world.  In practice, I should think that many of the 'possible
    winners' would simply drop out and save the expense.
    
    This would also require reducing the number of events held.
    Trouble with that, it would more than likely end up as
    a 'European' Championship, as the far-off events (which are
    usually poorly supported) would then be dropped.
    
    I suppose the existing Euro Championship could be viewed as a
    'national' championship if Europe gets more integrated in the future...
    
    Last night I watched Sportsnight (taped) and Top Gear Rally Reports.
    I'll bet Pentti (and co-driver) were well shaken up after their
    accident.  At least no injuries (only to pride).
    
    Louise wasn't too happy this year, the conditions being well-suited
    to the all-wheel-drivers - who she said were ripping up the track,
    making it even harder for the following cars (a common, valid, complaint).
    
    J.R.

    
    Agreed Lancia do not enter Group N with a factory team, but it would be
    wrong to belittle Oreille's achievements, since the Renault is not a 
    factory team either (Simon Racing are only backed, much like most of 
    the top Group N teams).
    
    There is no doubt that the Renault is backed a biggish budget, but 
    there is more to winning rallies than having lots of cash. The 5 GTT
    is frequently in the top 10 times on tarmac stages due to its excellent
    handling and power to weight ratio.
    
    No doubt a full Group N factory Integrale would be faster on gravel,
    but a Group A Integrale is quite a different beast from a Group N one 
    and it is debateable whether speed and reliability could be achieved. 
    
    Mark

�    wrong to belittle Oreille's achievements, since the Renault is not a 
    
    Apologies if I appeared to be 'knocking' Renault in my
    previous notes - they have achieved a worthwhile result.
    
    5GTT is certainly an effective tarmac car.
    
    J.R.

    
    I must have heard wrong - but I thought I heard the commentator say
    that the Group N [individual?] winner was a welshman in a Cosworth...
    
    Did I hear wrong or did the Renault 5 only win as a team?
    
    /. Ian .\

    
    I suspect (although, don't know) that Gwyndaff Evans in the Works Group
    N Sierra Cosworth 4x4 may have won Group N on the RAC, but Alain
    Oreille driving a 5 GTT won the World Championship (And didn't take
    part in the RAC, which is where I came in).
    
    Mark

    Yes, Gwyndaf Evans did win Group N on the RAC (in a Cosworth).
    
    Comments on R5 GTT related to the World Championship, not the RAC.
    
    J.R.

    
    If anyone is interested in watching Group A and N cars in action, and
    are within driving distance of Bournemouth, they should be at the
    Pavillion in Bournemouth at 8 AM tomorrow to watch the start of the 
    Mazda Winter Rally. This is a round of the Mintex National Championship
    and takes in the forests around Ringwood and Wareham as well as the
    first stage through the Winter Gardens (Anyone who's ever walked
    through them will be able to imagine what a Cosworth at full throttle
    must be like on those narrow roads (well paths really!)).
    
    I'll be there. Will you?
    
    Mark  

�                              -< Rally tomorrow? >-
    
    Oh damn, I had forgotten about that...
    I have spectated there for the past couple of years.
    
    Is this one starting Friday am ?
    If so, will it carry on into Saturday ?
    
    
�    I'll be there. Will you?
    
    Would like to be - depends a bit on 'er indoors (and the day/s concerned).
    
    
�    first stage through the Winter Gardens (Anyone who's ever walked
    
    That sounds like fun !
    
    J.R.

    
    Sorry folks,
    
    It starts (and finishes) on SATURDAY! Not tomorrow. 
    
    I think you call that wishfull thinking! :^)
    
    Mark 

>>>first stage through the Winter Gardens (Anyone who's ever walked
   

 Errr, Mark, the Winter Gardens in Bournemouth is a Theatre........


Now, that _does_ sound good...you can just imagine the pace notes, can't you..

"3/100ths, 90left at Row G...
1/100th, open right into the Stalls, mind the Ice-Cream sales girl....."


I imagine they mean the _Pleasure_ Gardens.....and I'm trying to figure out 
where they'll come out onto the road, without having to use the pedestrian
subways.......

Oh, yes, after all these wild imaginings, I shall be there !!!    ;-)


Ian

    
    Oh well, for years my family have called the gardens the Winter Gardens
    (we always assumed that was where the theatre got its name). Whatever
    you want to call them, the rally will go through the Gardens which lead
    out to the pier approach area.
    
    Last year the cars came from where the old bus station used to be
    before it burnt down all those years ago and finished actually on the
    promenade. The tarmac was damp and one or two cars failed to negotiate
    the bends, leading to a bit of repair work to the metal fencing for the
    parks department!.
    
    Anyway, it should be fun.
    
    Mark

    Can anybody tell me the first 2WD car home in the 1990 Lombard RAC
    Rally ? (No I'm not entering the Top Gear Rallyquest, but I know
    a man who is !!).
    
    Am I right in thinking that it would be an Astra or Sierra, or were
    there other (e.g. private) 2WD entries ?
    
    I've only got a list of the top 10 finishers - which I think are
    all 4WD.
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    Paul.

Results of the Spanish - Catalonia Rally

A Schwarz - Toyota Celicia 6:44:42
J Kankkinen - Lancia Delta 6:46:15
F Delecour - Ford Sierra 6:46:20
J Bardolet - Ford Sierra 6:50:22

World Championship Standings (Lancia already has the Manufacturers)

Kankkunen 138
Sainz 131
Auriol 101
Biason 69
Schwarz 55

    So, it's going to be quite interesting to RAC this time when Sainz and
    Kankkunen are chasing each other and the championship...
    
    PS. Shouldn't this belong to note "Monte Carlo 1991", that's where all
    the other results for this season are...
    
    - Jyri -

>>                       -< RAC is going to be fun to see >-
    
    So Lancia are actually going to turn up this year as well.   :-)
    
    It's always been a shame that they often haven't needed to compete
    in the RAC, as the championships tend to be finalised before then.
    
    J.R.

re: .-1 yes, sorry about that, my misteak was doing a title search for rally...

I haven't found out what happened to Sainz yet.

    Sainz's Toyota's black box was broken before the second day's start. 
    They tried even to push the car to start but it didn't help. 
    
    Armin Schwartz drove excellently. This was his first won in the world
    championships. We are going to see much more this guy in the future.
    
    Kankkunen drove like mad in the non-asphalt and beat Delecours but
    couldn't reach Schwartz.
    
    BTW do you happen to know what the Finnish slang word 'kankkunen' 
    is in English?
    
    Hang-over!
    
    - Jyri -

re: .-1 He certainly doesn't drive like he has one !

Not quite as consistant as Sainz of as spectactular as Auriol (or Vartanen ;-))
on song; but the results speakfor themselves. 

    The final stages of the Spanish rally were quiteinteresting:
    
    - Schwarz was leading by approx. 3min when he did a full barrell roll.
    There were no spectators around so they putthe carback on its wheels
    again and finished the stage with a lead of 1'30 and won overall
    
    - atthe same time  Delecour was given instructions to finish the race
    and drive SLOWLY. What he did
    
    - Kankkunen driving flat out misses a corner 
    
    - Conclusion: if Delecour had continued on the same pace he would have
    won the Rally
    
    Additional comment: Delecour was not too happy about the tyres. The
    TOYOTA team (after Sainz had disappeared) gave him its own tyres so
    that Francois could resist Kankkunen ... and help Sainz defend his
    position ....

    Anyone know the dates/venues for this years Lombard?

    
    Starts Sunday. That's all I know.
    
    Should be good though as, for once, the championship outcome depends
    on the result.
    
    Good luck to Juha.
    
    Mark

    I remember hearing that we'll get BBC TV coverage twice a day.

    So, Kankkunen leads after the first day - but as history tells, that
    doesn't mean anything in the RAC. Sainz is only 8 seconds behind...
    
    
    
    Is there any more news?
    
    - Jyri -

    At 9 am today, Colin (?Chris?) McRae was still third.
    
    JK

    
    Colin it is. Going well and, apparently, with a 3 year Subaru WRC
    contract in his overall pockets. A British driver with a future, now
    there's a novelty!
    
    Has Sainz retired yet? :^)
    
    Mark (rooting for Juha).

    Is it just me, or is anyone else dissapointed in the small amount of
    time given to the coverage by BBC 2 on this event. Also the timings of
    the reports which amount to 5 mins around 7pm and 15mins around
    midnight. Whilst I'm grateful that the BBC are covering the rally it
    seems a little half hearted when you compare it with the snooker that
    is currently on. What sort of coverage is there on satellite Mark ?
    
    Roy

    
    Hello Roy,
    
    Well to be honest it's not a lot better there. All the ASTRA sports
    channels are covering it, but only with nightly reports (repeated
    throughout the day, I believe). The reports on the bird are 30 minutes
    each (I only saw Eurosport's last night, so I don't know what value
    watching more than one will have - I 'll check tonight).
    
    Last night's was quite good, but I didn't see BBC2's so I can't
    directly compare. I had hoped that Chatsworth would be on live
    yesterday, but it wasn't.
    
    Mark

>>    Is it just me, or is anyone else dissapointed in the small amount of
>>    time given to the coverage by BBC 2 on this event. Also the timings of
    
    I'm not pleased at this years coverage either.
    
    To make things worse, my video won't record at present !
    
    Last night, I saw the five-minute slot around 7pm and since that
    didn't really look like rallying, I was quite pleased to turn back
    to C4 and continue watching the programme on 'the dyslexic engineer'.
    
    If anyone didn't see it, I think that you missed out.  It was about
    Ben Bowlby, who managed to design and compete in a race car, which
    was all part of his degree course.  Having dyslexia just meant that
    he had to work all that much harder to achieve this.
    
    He ended up getting a First class Honours degree and a job at Lola.
    He came over as being very appreciative of other peoples work in
    the company, as well as extremely modest.  An all round 'good egg'.
    
    J.R.

    Damn! I missed the Ben Bowlby programme!
    
    I presume this one took over where the previous one left off?
    
    I met Ben Bowlby years ago when he was first trying to get his
    motorbike engine powered Suzuki special saloon sorted out. I commented
    on it being unusual to see a racing car with chain drive! (One for the
    trivia quiz, eh?) He was very chatty and friendly, explaining what he
    was doing, the problems he was having, etc, etc. A really nice bloke
    who deserves all the success he gets.
    
    Mark

>>    I presume this one took over where the previous one left off?
    
    I didn't see (or know of) the previous programme, so can't say.
    
>>    I met Ben Bowlby years ago when he was first trying to get his
>>    motorbike engine powered Suzuki special saloon sorted out. I commented
    
    Isn't this the vehicle which was featured in CCC not too long ago ?
    If so, I think they said 'he is someone you will hear about in future'.
    This also seemed to be the conclusion last night.  From the showing
    in that programme I would agree that he deserves any and all success
    that he may get...
    
    J.R.
    
    PS  In his first week at Lola, he was instructed to make changes to
        an F3000 so that the sidepods would be 15 inches shorter.  He was
        kind of expecting to be let in gradually, meeting staff etc.
        Instead, he had a real baptism of fire (which he handled well enough).

    
    I don't know if it was in CCC, I haven't read that in years, but 
    there probably aren't many around! :^)
    
    He basically took a course (can't remember what it was called) in
    which he designed the content himself (In his case it revolved around
    his 16 valve Vauxhall engined Clubmans sportsracer) and worked towards
    a degree. He was successful (as the programme probably explained) and
    it led to his job at Lola.
    
    The Clubmans design was sold to a consortium led by fellow special
    saloon racer, Ginger Marshall (who used to race a Reliant Kitten!)
    and it is planned to be sold to other racers as a competitor to
    the ubiqutous Mallock.
    
    Mark

    Yet another topic discussing something other than the title   :-)
    
    Back to the almost-correct subject (just a year out), I believe the TV
    stated that there would be an hourly report on Radio 5.  What frequency
    is that on ?  It seems that on-one at work gets updates, so info will
    have to come from Ceefax when I get home...  The other alternative
    would be to phone the 0898 number for results, but that's not cheap !
    
    J.R.

    After the second day Juha is 32 (or something..) secs behind Sainz.
    
    Juha says that Tuesday is most important, driving in the northern woods
    is going to show who's who.
    
    - Jyri -

    Re -2
    
    Radio 5 is on 909 medium wave (old R2) and have a sports bulletin every
    hour after the news at the "top of the hour"
    
    paul

It looks as if all three sports channels (Screensport, Eurosport and Sky Sport)
are showing a 30 minute program repeated twice a day.

I caught one of them last night for a few minutes, and it seemed on a par
with most of the rally highlights. Some good in car footage from the
Fords, including the one (can't remember which!) where his engine siezed
in the middle of a stage.

The car did a slow spin, and stopped. The co-driver did the classic on 
the radio - something along the lines of "Hello Base, we seem to have a minor
problem..."

Shame all the Fords with camers are out now, except for one.

Peter.

After the third day Sainz is appx. 2 minutes behind Juha. Carlos had some 
troubles - tried to push too hard?

If Juha can keep Carlos in his behind, he will win the championship.

All the luck for Juha today!

- Jyri -

Juha wins easily from Carlos.

Didi Auriol crash like Carlos ?

Can someone fill in the details for te 3rd day ?

    
    1. Juha Kankkunen, Lancia, Fin
    2. Kenneth Eriksson, Mitsubishi, Swe	
    3. Carlos Sainz, Toyota, Spa
    4. Timo Salonen, Mitsubishi, Fin
    5. Ari Vatanen, Subaru, Fin
    6. Francois Delecour, Ford, Fra
    7. Hannu Mikkola, Mazda, Fin
    8. Marc Duez, Toyota, Bel
    9. Bruno Saby, Lancia, Fra
    10. Louise Aitken-Walker, Ford, Sco

    Drivers' Championship 1991
    
    1. Juha Kankkunen, Lancia, Fin, 150
    2. Carlos Sainz, Toyota, Spa, 143
    3. Didier Auriol, Lancia, Fra, 101
    4. Massimo Biasion, Lancia, Ita, 69
    5. Kenneth Eriksson, Mitsubishi, Swe, 66
    6. Armin Schwarz, Ger, Toyota, 51
    7. Markku Alen, Subaru, Fin, 40
       Francois Delecour, Ford, Fra, 40
    9. Jorge Recalde, Lancia, Arg, 29
    10. Mikael Ericsson, Toyota, Swe, 27
    
    
    Constructors' Championship 1991
    
    1. Lancia, 137
    2. Toyota, 128
    3. Mitsubishi, 62
    4. Ford, 54
    5. Mazda, 44
    6. Subaru, 42
    7. Nissan, 16
    8. BMW, 6
    9. Renault, 14
    10. Daihatsu, 2
    
    
    Drivers' wins
    
    Juha Kankkunen, 5 wins: 	Safari
    				Acropolis
    				Rally of 1000 Lakes (Jyv�skyl�n Suurajot)
    				Australia
    				RAC
    
    Carlos Sainz, 5 wins:	Monte Carlo
    				Portugal
    				Corsica
    				New Zealand
    				Argentina
    
    Kenneth Eriksson, 1 win:	Swedish Rally
    
    Kenjiro Shinozuka, 1 win: 	Ivory Coast
    
    Armin Schwarz, 1 win:	Catalonia

    	Can someone explain why the Nordic drivers seem to do so well in 
    the rallying compared to say the British drivers??
    
    KEvin

    
    Well, at the risk of upsetting a lot of people, it has to be said that
    most British drivers aren't that good! The likes of Roger Clarke and
    Tony Pond may have been world class once, but are now too old (and out
    of world class competition for too long). People like Wilson and
    Llewellin (or however you spell it! :^)) seem to aim for little more
    than national domination, they seem to lack that final spark and self
    discipline to be top flight world rally drivers.
    
    Colin Mcrae showed he lacks none of the spark and the self-discipline
    MAY come with a decent WRC campaign (which I understand he has), but
    only time will tell.
    
    It's interesting to compare the up-and-coming drivers of today against
    the established stars. People like Delecour, Fiorio and De Meuvius (sp?) 
    are following the trend set by Sainz of 'latin' drivers coming to the fore.
    The 'old hands' (Mikkola, Salonen, Alen) are ALL Nordic drivers. There
    was a time when the rally teams always picked 'home' drivers (usually
    British) or Scandanavians, but these days (as in all motorsport) the
    sponsor's image is very important and so strong markets (look at the
    crowds in Spain) tend to get drivers backed (Does that make sense?).
    Sainz is an exceptional talent (making the ok Celica into a world
    beater), but no doubt many other Spanish drivers will rise to
    prominence who are no better than most British drivers. Unfortunately,
    for the Brits, there are no big sponsors interested in backing British
    drivers, so, unless a REAL talent (like Sainz) comes along British
    rally drivers will probably continue to be no more than 'excellent at
    home'.
    
    Mark
    

    There's a Top Gear "special" tonight covering the rally. All 30 mins of
    it :-)
    
    I seem to remember that Grandstand cover the rally the Saturday after
    it finishes too...
    
    Gary.

    
    Well. I saw some Screensport coverage and (other than Eurosport's
    better In-car cameras) it was definitely better than Eurosport's.
    
    I recorded Screensport's coverage last night and watched it this
    morning. The coverage was good and some amateur (pretty good) video
    was shown of Colin McRae's off and also of some other drivers going
    off at the same spot. So, if you watched Satellite you got 4 hours (on
    each of 3 channels) and there's going to be a highlights programme.
    Not bad, compared with the Beeb's attempt.
    
    Mark

Ahhh Gi'day...�

		   You ever been driven by a Scandanavian?

	It's probably got something to do with (a) national characteristics
	and (b) climate and country.

	They (the Scandinavians) have bags of forest to play in and enough
	foul weather in the year to make it interesting.  Additionally, their
	rally stars are sporting heros (as opposed to the pin-headed
	footballers we think are wonderful).

	Maybe I've had limited exposure to the Nordic races, but everyone
	I've ever met had more than a hint of balls-out madness in their
	driving.  When I joined the 200 club (Motorbike) in Germany I was 
	passed by a Swedish chap wearing only a pair of shorts and a grin.

	Dave

It takes some talent and lots of hard work to become something like Juha 
Kankkunen. He started driving car at age of seven. His father was driving
rally at national level and started to train his son in the closed, private 
roads of their farm and on the ice of nearby lakes. At age of 12 Juha was 
already faster than his father.

About Nordic maniacy; it's pure fun to drive fast in the small country roads 
here. There is so little traffic and the roads are so curvy and nice to drive
that if you are a speed enthusiast you just have to love it.

And in the winter you have to be quite good driver if you want to survive here...


- Jyri -

    Re Nordic rally drivers 
    
    As Mark pointed out, they are better than the Brits !
    
    
    As for the future, it does seem that European (more likely Latin) drivers
    are going to make more of a show.  One of the reasons for this is that
    International Rallying makes use of Pace Notes.  British rallies do not.
    
    Therefore, to become a world class driver will require experience of
    pace notes - both making the notes and driving flat out using them.
    There are only a couple of events held around Britain that allow the
    use of pace notes.  One is on the Isle of Man, another on Mull, plus
    Irish events I believe.  On the mainland, the RAC is the only event
    of any status that uses them.
    
    To make matters worse, it does seem that the faster of the British
    drivers do seem to settle for the National Championship level and
    don't generally make a big effort to move on.  Maybe it is because
    they do not want to be out-classed against the competition, but I
    wouldn't think (or hope) that is the real reason.
    
    J.R.
    
    Re. Peugeot building a Group A rally car, they plainly do not have a
    suitable model to start with.  The 309 would be about the size, but
    they don't bother using turbo engines or 4wd in their range of models,
    so they would have to start from scratch.
    
    Admittedly, if they put loadsa dosh into it, they could do so, but
    they would have absolutely no guarantee of making a winner.

    .65�    are going to make more of a show.  One of the reasons for this is that
    .65�    International Rallying makes use of Pace Notes.  British rallies do not.
    
    Do you mean that British rallies don't follow known routes ? 
    
    I'm confused.

    One more thing to confuse you:
    
    A Finn, Mrs Minna Sillankorva, won also women's World Rally Championship. 
    
    So, also the ladies here are similarly speed maniacs as men...
    
    - Jyri -

>>    Do you mean that British rallies don't follow known routes ? 
    
    Yep.  Basically, British rallies use 'secret routes'.
    
    This used to be the case with the RAC until last year, when recce's
    were used to generate pace notes.  Now the RAC is 'just another
    world championship' event, with nothing special in it's nature.
    
    Pace notes are not allowed to be used on 'normal' rallies.
    
    This is where the use of a British co-driver can pay dividends
    for a foreign driver, since there are only a certain number of
    stages used in the U.K.  The co-driver still cannot be sure of
    which way the route will be going (until he sees the arrows), but
    at least he is likely to know of any particular hazards on the route.
    
    As a result, for a British rally driver at club, or national, level,
    experience of pace notes is going to be completely lacking.
    This experience is not going to be gained in the U.K., so British
    drivers would have to compete in foreign events to get this.
    
    For whatever reasons (I am sure additional cost would be one of them),
    most top-level British drivers do not generally enter foreign events,
    so are not going to have the necessary skills to reach top class in
    World Championship events...
    
    J.R.

>>    A Finn, Mrs Minna Sillankorva, won also women's World Rally Championship. 
>>    
>>    So, also the ladies here are similarly speed maniacs as men...
    
    But what of Louise Aitken-Walker ?
    Didn't she win this last year - fast Brit indeed.
    
    She was also 'top Brit' in the RAC this year, what a shame she has
    not had the use of a competitive and reliable car.  The Ford she is
    using is not 'top of the form' in either of these subjects.
    
    J.R.
    
    PS Did anyone notice that one unfortunate driver had his 4x4 Cosworth
       stolen from outside his B+B the night before the rally ?

    
    I wonder if, with the ever increasing speed of Group A cars at WRC
    level, the lack of tarmac rallies in the UK is also a handicap to
    our drivers?
    
    They often seem to lack not the skill, but simply the pace to keep up
    with the very best of the rest. with the large number of French and 
    Italian drivers coming to the fore now, could it be that their tarmac
    experience allows them to control the car at higher speed or maybe even
    just gives them that extra bit of nerve to obtain greater speed? After
    all, we all know how you become used to a faster car after a while and
    tarmac rallying does, generally, produce higher cornering speeds.
    
    In Britain (British Isles really, at the risk of offending some of our
    Irish readership) there are only two top class tarmac rallies (Isle of 
    Man and the Irish) although there are sundry lower class ones,
    especially in Northern Ireland.
    
    Mark

>>    level, the lack of tarmac rallies in the UK is also a handicap to
    
    Yes, another point I suppose.
    
    Basically, the events available in the U.K. (or British Isles)
    do not really provide a good grounding for any aspiring driver
    who is trying to compete on an International level.
    
    Closed roads would be a big help, but require an act of parliament
    to permit this to take place.  The RAC MSA do not seem to have made
    any real efforts on this, but then again it seems a hopeless cause.
    That is not reason for them not to try though, especially as most
    rallies take place on Forestry Commission land, who repeatedly increase
    their charges yearly at rates much higher than inflation, blah, blah...
    
    That's what happens when you have a captive market (and the company
    is being considered for a privatisation sell-off too).
    
    J.R.

    .69�    But what of Louise Aitken-Walker ?
    .69�    Didn't she win this last year - fast Brit indeed.
    
    ... not to mention Pat Moss, Annie Soisbault, Claudine Trautmann, ...
    and Michele Mouton who have all been works rally drivers at some point
    (and they have won major rallies)

Being a Renault driver, I was interested in how Renault did in the
Lombard RAC Rally. Despite the generic Renault mentioned in a particular
class, the type of car wasn't described, and there was no coverage of
the car.

was it a Renault 5 Campus? or the Rally version of the Espace!!

Inquiring minds need to know!

Mark.