Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    Was it running OK a few months ago, just before it was laid up?
    
    David.
    

Yes, it ran very well.  The only reason it's been sitting doing nothing is
it has a bashed wing and no headlight.  Now the insurance for that is sorted
out, its owner (my brother) decided he no longer wanted it so gave it to me,
rather than send it to a scrap yard.  I've got a replacement wing, and it needs
new tyres, but apart from that it's in good condition.
Scott.

	The probable reason it didn't start was that the petrol,
	particularly that in the carburettor had degraded through
	vapourisation. Once that's flushed through it should be OK.

	Try putting some fresh stuff in if desperate.

	-John

    You might also care to look at the fuel pump in a threatening
    manner. Other dafties : Condenser in distributor/distributor
    connections in general.
    
    I'm assuming that your main ignition circuits are demankified -
    moisture does nasty things.
    
    If all else fails push it on to the road and phone the AA ..
    
    Mike Day
    

    Will it start when bump started?
    
    I had a car once, where due to not being used, the contacts in the
    ignition were dodgey/wierd, when you turned the ignition on, without
    cranking the motor, the power reached the engine, and there was a spark
    at the points, but when the key was turned that bit extra, the starter
    worked, but the supply was cut off to the engine/coil itself.
    
    We fixed it by disconnecting the battery, and turning the key on and
    off for about � hour(any longer gets boring!) this cleaned the
    contacts.
    
    Carl.

Thanks for all these suggestions, but:
The fuel pump does work (loadsa fuel getting to the carb - I took the pipe off
and watched it spurt out)
There is no old fuel in the carb - I dismantled and cleaned it.
There is fresh fuel in the tank.
The plugs do spark when cranking the engine on the starter (I took them out and
held them against the engine block while connected (with insulated pliers :-)))

I'm at a complete loss.  I'll try it again this evening.

    Short of a complete and massive loss of compression, or breakdown of
    conduction of all leads simultaniously, I don't know then!
    
    Carl.

My old Midget suffered from this....

What it turned out to be was a duff coil, but not so duff that it didn't 
produce a spark!!

If your willing to spend out the lolly on a new coil (always a good idea on an 
A series engine) then you never know this could fix it.

If you are a little worried about this, you could either get it to Lucas service
centre just of the Basingstoke road, or get some mobile tuning guy over to look 
at it.

Steve

    
    last time this happened to me....there was "damp" on the inside of the
    distributor cap....
    
    judicious use of a paper tissue, is the only remedy needed ;-)

Speaking of Tuning can anyone recomend somewhere I can get my car turned. 

I changed my head gasket over the weekend and I think I should get it 
tuned now :-)...


	Mike.

    Total loss of compression:
    
    All the plugs out, a squirt of fresh engine oil in each bore and
    turn the engine over.
    
    Blocked jets:
    
    Take the carb apart and remove all jets and blow them thorugh with
    compressed air (foot pump will also do). Also blow the passages
    out.
    
    After a winter of standing this is the normal procedure for getting
    my bike running again.
    
    Jan
    
    

    My Rally car used to behave like this after any significant rebuild.
    
    Remedy, get a friend to tow you around in gear until it fires.
    
    Brmm, brmm

I tried again last night, but it still won't go.
Plugs are sparking very well, so no problems with damp or faulty electrics.
Compression seems okay (took out a spark plug, put thumb over opening, turned
engine by hand, held thumb in place for a couple of seconds, release thumb ->
satisfying sound of escaping air)
Carb/inlet manifold not blocked (held hand over air filter inlet while cranking
engine - lots of suck!)
I eventually sprayed WD40 into all the cylinders in case they were damp.  After
that it seemed to almost fire once, or maybe that was just the WD burning.
I put a piece of clean tissue paper in a cylinder, cranked the engine then
removed it.  It smelt of petrol, but not strongly so maybe the mixture is too
weak?  It was too cold and dark last night to fiddle with that though.
Only other thing I can think of is that there's water in the cylinders or in the
fuel.
How can I find out if this is the case?
Scott.

    
    There is one other thing that causes an apparently healthy mini to
    consistently refuse to start...
    
    Have you checked that the wire that runs from the altenator to (? coil
    maybe)  has not been chaffed.    Aparently the alternator sends extra
    volts down this wire when the starter motor is used, to assist in
    starting the engine.   Any thinning of this cable, seriously reduces
    the number of "extra volts" that can get down this wire.
    
    Chaffing is quite common against the casing of the altenator itself.
    It is also not too obvious, one has to check the wire quite closely.
    
    I had no end of starting problems the first time this happened to me,
    because I just taped it up to stop it shorting out and thought no more
    about it for a while, just couldn't start the car....I live on a hill
    though :-)

    Try the compression again ... get a gague to measure it if possible.
    After not running for six months, the rings could have rusted into the
    pistons, reducing the compression enough to stop the thing starting.

    One thing I used to try with old motorbikes that wouldn't start was to
    pour lighter fuel down the plug holes and then try. Once the engine has
    fired a few times and warmed up, the rings tend to loosen and the
    compression returns to normal.

    It basically has to be one of three things: fuel, spark or compression.
    If you have all of them, and at the right time in the right amounts,
    it WILL run ... and you can quote me on that :-)

    Mark

    
    After testing that petrol reaches the carb ie pumping some into a glass
    jar, remove the air filter and the DRIBBLE some petrol directly into
    the carb while somebody turns the motor over.
    The highly inflamable air will / should then start the motor enough
    for it to run on its own.
    Are the plugs looking wet from the petrol poured in and not burned ???
    
    	Trev.

.16>>		remove the air filter and the DRIBBLE some petrol directly into
.16>>    the carb while somebody turns the motor over.

This is THE most dangerous practice known to ancient motorists.

My advice is NEVER do it.

have you seen that starting spray (@halfords etc)...

contains petrol (+other stuff) in an aerosol can (can't remember exact details 
tho), that you spray into the carb to get the engine started

...Art.

>have you seen that starting spray (@halfords etc)...

Quick Start (other names also).. used to use it on our mower..
worked really well (without QS you could spend AGES trying to get the 
damn thing started... with a little QS.. started in no time at all)


dunow if it will help .0 tho.. I think he's past needing QS

no, it's not Quick Start... it's something else.


...Art

    
    Scott,
    
    Where is this Mini of yours to be found ?  
    
    Do you live in Reading ?

    I had this happen to my MG Metro, in my case it turned out the
    condenser had gone. 
    
    (��)Munce.

The mini's in Ascot.
If you tell me how to start it, I can bring it to Reading...

    
    the only other thing I can suggest, apart from getting someone to tow
    it around until it does start, is to go over the electrics with a volt
    meter....
    
    I doubt this problem is caused by something blocked, stuck or fuel. It's
    far more likely to be caused by either electrics or timing.
    
    Did you re-set the timing yourself ?

I have checked the electrics with a voltmeter, and unless I'm being really
stupid, there's nothing wrong with them.  I set the ignition timing (static
only, can't do it running yet!) myself.  As I've done it to countless other
cars before I'm sure I've done that right.
I think the problem is water in the fuel (or other rubbish).  I shall try
filling the float chamber with fresh stuff, and if that works I shall have to
drain all the fuel out and start again...
More news tomorrow!
Scott.

RE: 938.18

  I think that starter fluid in a can contains ether.  It's HIGHLY flammable.
It can be really dangerous when people don't head the warning that says "Spray
BEFORE attempting to start the engine" - they spray while cranking it over.  One
good backfire and ka-blooey...



RE: .0

  You had said that the petrol was fresh, but you still think that there might
be water in it.  They sell something here in the US called DRI-GAS.  It consists
mainly of alcohol. The alcohol bonds with the water and makes it *flammable*.
It should cost about 50p a bottle (that is enough for 10+ gallons of petrol).


The other thing that I would check would be your points and timing.  A spark at
the wrong time is as good as no spark at all.....

.25 and .26 collided.  Since you've already checked the timing, I guess my only
though would be that "dri-gas" stuff.  They must have it over there.  But I
can't think what it would be called.

I went into a chemist once, while on holiday, and was looking for "rubbing
alcohol" for my girlfriend to disinfect her earings.  They looked at me like I
had 2 heads.  I found out after a lengthly discussion that I was looking for
"surgical spirit".  If you find it.  I would be interested in knowing what
"dri-gas" is called in the UK.


-Al

    
    I still reckon your best bet is to tie a rope on it and lassoo a
    passing car....
    
    ;-)

    Reading the past few notes, it sounds like you have petrol, and a
    spark, but not at the same time!.  I know this sounds basic, but is the
    distributer cap on the right way round, on some bosch dizzys I know it
    is possible to squeeze the cap on 180� out!.
    Another basic one, is have you got the firing sequence right, ie are
    the HT leads plugged in right in the distributer cap?, In my
    experiance, I once wired up a 1300 Beetle, on the basis of a diagram
    from a 1200 beetle, and they were 90� out from each other!.
    
    Carl.

I had another look at things last night.  It was raining, so I didn't fancy
walking to the garage to get a can of fresh petrol.  I took some petrol from the
float chamber, put it straight into the carb, then sprayed in lots of WD40 to
get rid of any water.  I put the carb back together, and cranked the engine...

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...but only for a few seconds, until the fuel in the carb had been used up.
Assuming it isn't a blockage in the carb jet ('cos I cleaned it at the weekend)
the fuel must be 'off'.  I didn't drain it all last night (well would you in
the dark when it's raining?), but I think that's the next thing to do.  Last
night I was happy just to have found out what was wrong.

Many thanks to everyone's suggestions.  All I've got to do now is weld on a new
wing, fit a headlamp, find out why the indicators don't work, fix the horn,
adjust the brakes...
If I'm lucky it might even pass the MOT!

Scott.

    
    If the thing started, it would have continued even with duff petrol,
    unhappily, but it would have kept running...
    
    sounds more like a blockage in the connection between the pipe and the
    float chamber, if there is petrol flowing from the pipe when you
    disconnect it.
    
    Get hold of a sewing needle and start poking around :-)

    Well done,  what year is this glorious/infamous automobile?
    I seem to remember that most of the A series used SU carbs, is this
    right?
    
    Carl
    

    It should have an SU. There is a pipe carrying fuel from the float
    chamber to the carb ... this could be blocked with dried-up fuel
    deposits. If the petrol is arrinving in the float chamber, but not
    at the carb, the pipe could be blocked.

    Also, you mentioned you cleaned the jet at the weekend. How did you
    do this ??? If you removed it from the carb, then you would have
    removed the pipe with it. If this is the case, perhaps you misplaced
    the rubber sealing ring and blocked the end of the pipe.

   Mark    

It has an SU HS2 carburettor.  What I did was:
  - take carb from engine
  - take dashpot off carb
  - take piston out of carb, being careful not to bend the needle valve.
  - take lid off float chamber
  - remove fuel pipe from base of float chamber
  - remove jet and pipe from carburettor
  - clean out old fuel (it *was* a funny colour!)
  - blow through jet and tube to check not blocked.
  - reassemble carb in reverse order to above.
  - blow through fuel inlet to float chamber with piston down - nothing happens
  - blow through inlet with piston up - can blow air through
  - put oil in dashpot and check piston moves up and down freely
  - check choke and throttle linkages work correctly
  - put carb back on car.
I was a bit suspicious of the pipe from the float chamber to the jet at the
time; maybe I kinked or twisted it?  I'll check it again before draining the
fuel.  Removing the carb also gives me a chance to adjust the gearstick linkage.

This was so loose you couldn't get the car into second or fourth, as the
gearstick hit the edge of its hole in the floor (its the old-style very long
stick) before engaging gear.  The nut to tighten it is in between the engine
and bulkhead and wins my prize for Most Inaccessible Nut 1990.  Although I've
managed to tighten it just enough to get into gear, taking the carb off should
make it possible to do the job properly.

If I hadn't got the car for free I would be a bit upset by now!
Scott.

    Definetly sounds like a blocage of somekind - if the plugs don't
    get wet when you turn the engine, then obviously there is no fuel.
    
    A silly question - is the float chamber float set with the correct
    gap on the little metal strip ? 
    
    another silly question - when you re-assembled the carb, did you
    make sure the needle was centred properly ?
    
    About the pouring fuel in the carb - the way I do it is to fill
    up the little trumpet with fuel, then go and crank the engine with
    the accelerator flat down is that dangerous too ?
    
    Paul 
                                                     

   re: .34

   I would have thought that you should always be able to blow air
   through, even with the needle right down.

   Did you move the needle in the piston ??? If so, did you get the shoulder
   back in the right place ??? If so, try dropping the needle height a little
   (although I would imagine that that happens fine on choke). You did check
   that the choke was reconnected, and moves the jet down when activated ???
   I'm not implying that you are stupid :-), but you never know ...

  Mark

    ... that should be "try dropping the jet height", not "needle
    height".

    Mark

   May sound really silly but... 

   Are the inlet valves opening to let any mixture in?

    
    If it went "BBBBBRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUMMM" after being given, by
    artificial means, a float chamber full of petrol...I should think that
    the valves are working :-)

This may sound stupid, but you didn't mention it.  Did you clean the inside of
the carb with anything besides air?  With that old *varnished* fuel, some sort
of solvent would be necessary to eat through it, and eliminate all of the 
blockage.  

I've only been in an English auto parts store once, and I don't remember seeing
"Gum-Out" or any other carb solvent like that.  It contains pretty severe
chemicals that the government over there may not be fond of;  I can't think that
that sort of solvent would be at all "Environmentally Friendly".

If they do sell that sort of thing over there, I highly recomend using some of
it on the carb.  It should do wonders for all of the old fuel left in there.

-Al

    Yet another "this may sound stupid but"...
        
    Are you sure the fuel pump is really doing its job?  I've had a case,
    admittedly with a mechanical pump (minis are electric aren't they?),
    where cranking the engine did produce a reasonable-looking spout of
    fuel from the carb supply pipe (disconnected), but this was misleading
    - it wasn't actually enough to keep the engine running - though with
    hand priming of pump (to fill the float chambers) it would manage a
    half-hearted version of your BBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!! 
    
    Think the trouble was (& still is, but I'm living with it) a dodgy
    petrol reserve tank switch, meaning pump can't properly suck fuel
    through when running low (though actually a couple of gallons still
    left). Maybe it's an airlock or something. It's happened more than
    once. 
                
    I imagine a defective pump, or even a pinhole in a fuel supply pipe,
    could produce similar symptons? 

    Or what about the fuel tank venting system? Never understood what
    that's for, but could it stop the engine running if it's blocked? 
    
    Richard 

    And now for my HP impression ...

    How about if the needle in the piston were too low. With the piston
    in the lowest position, the needle would completely block the jet,
    but would be high enough up to allow air in.

    Adding petrol to the carb as you did would cause the car to start
    and run until the petrol you added ran out, then the piston would
    rise a little but the resulting mixture from the jet would be too
    weak to keep it going.

    Could be an answer ..

  Mark

Last night the car's previous owner said:
"Oh, by the way, the carb doesn't work properly..."
This was while I was standing in the kitchen holding it at an angle to see if
fuel would run from the float chamber through the jet.  Even with the piston
fully lifted, only a slow trickle came through.  I shall try and get a new pipe
to connect the float chamber to the jet.
The problem is definitely in the carb, the fuel pump is fine.
I'm taking tomorrow off to work on it, so more news next week.!
Scott

    Isn't a second hand one a better/less hassle proposition?

Spend the � on a rebuilt one.  You shouldn't have any problems for a long time.
It'd be easy to install, too.

For �15, I can get a repair kit, with new jet/pipe, etc.  This is what I shall
do, unless anyone has horror stories about such kits...
Scott

    
    the cheapest solution would be to go to a scrap yard and barter a bit
    and get one for a couple of quid of an old mini...
    
    Minis carburetors are usually quite reliable...

I put a new jet / flexible hose assembly on the carb, and the car started first
time.  In retrospect, I think the main problem was a grossly maladjusted jet, so
far too weak a mixture was getting to the engine, hence preventing it going.

Having started the car, I heard that a new exhaust was needed.  Inspection
revealed the flared end where it joins the manifold has broken.  Can I buy a
front pipe on its own?  Will places like Humphries sell them "over the counter"?

I've got the old wing off (easier than expected!), so next thing is fitting the
new and a new headlight.  I still can't work out why the interior light goes out
when I turn on the windscreen wipers...

I also had to fit a new bypass hose.  The man (woman?) who designed minis must
have had a grudge against people who were subsequently going to work on them:
it's all but impossible to get at the hose with the engine in the car, but I
think I've done it ok; I'll check when I fill up the cooling system.

Scott.

    RE: exhuast, I think you will find that complete systems for a mini are
    only �18 from qwik fit etc.

    .49�new and a new headlight.  I still can't work out why the interior light goes out
    .49�when I turn on the windscreen wipers...
    
    Ah yes, that'll be Lucas (the prince of darkness :-) again), you'll
    have to trace the wiring, and check each connection to the components.
    My wife has a mini, and for the first few months I was for EVER
    tracking down obscure electrical problems, one of the causes must be
    that "extras" are given their own in-line fuses, and not put on the
    main fuse box.
    
    .49�I also had to fit a new bypass hose.  The man (woman?) who designed minis must
    .49�have had a grudge against people who were subsequently going to work on them:
    
    Yes, agree 100%, I find the first thing to do before attempting any
    work on the engine is to remove the bonnet.
    
    Best of luck from a fellow sufferer...
    
    
    		Si

Re .49
> The man (woman?) who designed minis must have had a grudge against people
> who were subsequently going to work on them:

       Sir Alec Issigonis certainly wasn't adverse to imposing his
       prejudices on his car designs. You'll notice there's no convenient
       place to put a radio, and the seatbelt mounting points are an
       afterthought - Sir Alec hated car radios and never wore seatbelts.

       I don't think he had anything against people working on his
       engines, though. Much of the mini's appeal is in it's size, and a
       cramped engine compartment is the price you have to pay.

       Ian.

    .52�       Sir Alec Issigonis certainly wasn't adverse to imposing his
    .52�       prejudices on his car designs. You'll notice there's no convenient
    
    Didn't he also say once that the mini driving position wasn't designed
    to be comfortable, since that might lead to drivers falling asleep at
    the wheel?!
    
    			Si

    
> The man (woman?) who designed minis must have had a grudge against people
> who were subsequently going to work on them:
    
    Minis are great to work on - provided you're double jointed and have
    small hands! - Derek used to get out of all sorts of jobs (gear linkage
    replacement...etc) by saying his hands were too big!
    
    Which reminds me, when I went to buy a new gear linkage bit, the man in
    the parts shop at first refused to sell it to me because he said it
    couldn't be replaced without taking the engine out! After I showed him
    that I had already removed the old one he eventually sold me the
    replacement part - with a "you'll be back" sort of grin. I nearly did
    go back - to show him that I'd fixed it!
    
    Elaine

Elaine, As you seem to be so good at working on minis, I can very generously
offer you the chance to work on one...
Scott. ;-)

    
    Scott,
    
    Thanks very much for the offer - but I've got a dead Landrover at the
    moment which I've got to sort out! (one extreme to the other!) :-)
    
    Elaine
    
    ps I've sold my Riley Elf :-(  Even after about two years of sitting in
    a garage, all it neaded was the battry charging up and it started first
    time!
    

    
    what you lot are all forgetting about mini engines, is that the one
    that Sir Alec designed the mini with was the 850...and there is *lots*
    of space to play around with in an 850 mini...
    
    Now the bigger engines were obviously shoe-horned in...and all you need
    to work on them with is a very small, but strong pair of hands :-)

    Forgive my ignorance, but are the 850 and even 1275 blocks not the
    same size ? The things that seems to take space under the bonnet
    is dual carbs, servo and oil cooler.
    
    Try getting an even small hand under the servo...
    
    Paul

    try getting even a feeler gauge in a 1360 cooper s engine 
    comparment....!!!!

    
    RE: .58
    
    I know the engine blocks are approximately the same size, but I was
    using the term engine to mean all the paraphanalia under the bonnet...
    

The saga continues...

Yesterday, I was ready to put the new wing on.  The new wing had part of the
front valance where the indicator mounts attached to it, and that part of the
mini, although usable, wasn't in very good condition.  As I had to remove the
part-valance from either the car or wing, I hacksawed the bent one off the car.
I put the wing in place and...

It's previous owner had cut the wheel arch larger, so it didn't match the wheel
arch on the mini's quarter panel, or the other three wheel arches.  So I had
to go and buy a wing (only �15) which does fit, but I have a hacksawed hole on
the mini where the indicator goes... (insert here the sort of expletives found
in conferences with unsrupulous moderators).  The original piece was damaged
beyond repair when I sawed it off, so I've had to remove the one attached to
the boy-racer style wing and use that.  I'll then need a 4" x 2" piece to extend
this to the correct wheel arch line.  Meanwhile, it was getting dark, so I
didn't have time to weld all these bits together, and the mini must sit for
another few days without a wing.

A WORD OF CAUTION:  The "Jumbo Jax" scissor-jacks are very unstable for lifting
a car higher than a couple of inches; the mini fell off one yesterday.  I have
another, far more substantial scissor-jack which was quickly put into service!
I was trying to jack the car up high enough to get an axle stand under it; for a
mini that means jacking it up a long way!

But I think all this trouble will be worthwhile; I had to wait 1� hours for a
train this morning (they should run every twenty minutes!).

Scott.

HI there,

I felt this was the best place to put this, but feel free to move it.

My Kadett/Astra has recently not been running smoothly. I suspected
that it was not firing on all cylinders, but my mechanic said this was
not the case. He replaced the points, checked the timimg and said it should be
ok, but it was'nt much better.

Basically the problem is that it is "jumpy" on acceleration, can't seem
to smoothly pick up speed. It is at it's worst when cold.

Could it be a compression problem? fuel line?, electrics?

Any suggestions appreciated!!!

Thanks
John

    Carburettor (I shouldn't have to spell things like that first thing
    in the morning) might bear looking at. That and/or muck in fuel line.
    
    m
    

They're notorious for Camshaft wear at 30-40K, a friend's Cam collapsed, in
Switzerland, luckily he had AA cover...

Dave

I would try to clean the carb with some spray cleaner (Gum-out or STP).  I've
always found that it does wonders for cold starting, and the responsiveness of
the throttle.

If you want to check YOURSELF that the engine is running on all cylinders get a
wet sponge, or a cup with some water in it.  Start the engine and let it run for
a minute.  Drip a some water onto the exhast manifold, right next to the
cylinder that you suspect is not running.  The water will bubble (or at least
evaporate quickly) if the cyclinder is firing.  If the cyclinder isn't firing,
the water will just sit there, or soak into the *rust* on the manifold.  You
have to make sure that the engine hasn't been running too long - if that's the
case the entire manifold may be hot enough to boil the drop of water.


People I've know have said: "Take a plug wire off, see if the engine runs any
different (if it does, then the cyclinder is firing), and then put it back on
and move to the next plug wire..." That sounds simple enough, UNTIL YOU GET 
SHOCKED.  Believe me the water trick is safer.

-Al

Thanks for the help Lads!

It turned out to be some brass fitting in the distributor (?????)

Cheers

john

The mini saga continues...

The mini now sports a new wing (black) and bit-of-the-valance-where-the-
indicator-mounts (white).  Not the world's neatest welding job, but I don't
think this wing will fall off.  Ever.  A bit of filler to fill the gaps, then
I'd better spray it orange to match the rest of the car.

Most of the electric problems were due to age-loosened connections, but it will
need a new horn and flasher unit.  Is the flasher unit the small aluminium can
mounted on the bulkhead in between the wiper motor and the hole for all the
instrument wiring?  Should it rattle when shaken?

Scott.

    Sounds like the right place from memory. They do rattle a little when
    shaken, or at least the larger variety ones do (two inch long, tubular
    three connectors, bolting onto bulkhead).

    If they flashers simply don't flash, check the earthing ... this is a
    common problem with minis.

 Mark

The indicators come on, and stay on without flashing.  The flasher unit is old
type with two connections.  Doesn't sound like an earth problem to me, unless
you know something I don't?
Scott

    When I had this type of problem with my mini, it was a bad earth,
    usually at the front indicator. The lights came on, but wouldn't 
    flash. No idea how this can be, but it was always the earth between
    the indicator assy and the body. Just try linking it across to the body
    and see what happens ...

   Mark

    The indicators won'tflash unless both frontand rear bulbs are working.
    
    If the front (or rear) light assembly is not earthing, then this
    creates the same situation as a blown bulb, so flasher unit doesn't!

    These units are crude to the n'th degree!. They principally use two
    connections, one from the switch, the other too the lights.
    
    The current flowing to the lights heats up an element which bends a
    bi-metalic strip, this breaks the circuit, and as it cools re-makes it,
    which heats up and breaks it ,etc.... you see what I mean about crude!.
    
    Anyway, as mentioned in -.1(or-.2?) it needs sufficient current,
    provided by at least 2 lamps working. The third connection is often a
    change-over on the contact that drives the dash warningh light. Thus
    it's indicators / dash light / indicators / dash light / etc.
    
    You could try taking it apart, and cleaning the contacts, but is it
    worth it for a couple of quid?.
    
    Richard.
    

Current state of play with the mini:

The indicators flash when the engine's revved; the battery's a bit flat so I'll
see if they're ok when it's charged.

A lot of the connections to the fuse box are dodgey, so I'm cleaning / replacing
them as appropriate.

The new wing is on, painted and with new lights.  Just needs a final coat of
paint to match colour with the rest of the car.

Rest of car put back together.

Two new tyres and a new exhaust.  There's a leak around the manifold somewhere,
so I'll take that off and fit a new gasket.

While it's off I'll have another go at the gear linkage; whereas I can get into
them all at rest, on the move second is a hit-and-miss affair...

Scrubbed out the inside, took off the tacky "bucket" seat covers... looks almost
respectable now!!!

Hopefully it'll pass an MOT at the weekend...

Scott.

Not sure why you suggest this.  I've already done it anyway, though.  The
battery leads are fine.  I assume the engine earth strap is fine as the dynamo
is chucking out current (yeah, dynamo!  remember them??).  The only reason the
battey is now flat is because I've been continually starting the engine without
driving the car anywhere, just to check things work.  Remember that the only
legal journey I can make is to an MOT station (it currently doesn't have one),
but I will take a rather long route to give it a good run!

The manifold problem was I think the nuts; they were only just finger tight.
Unfortunately I couldn't start the engine (battery now very flat!) to check if
the leaks are sealed:  I didn't feel like push starting it alone (although it's
quite good fun!) at 9pm last night...

I think the gear linkage joints must be keyed, 'cos no matter how I adjusted
it, when I tightened it up it always went back to the same position.  I'll see
how the gear change is on a decent run, and maybe take it to bits again after
that if necessary.

One final point:  when I started it at the weekend, it seemed to only be firing
on three cylinders.  After revving it for a few seconds things settled down and
all four were firing.  I stopped the engine, and started it again: same thing,
only three cylinders (I assume so - the exhaust was going:
    <pop> <pop> <pop> <   > <pop> <pop> <pop> <   > ...)
but after revving it a bit the fourth sprang to life.  It might just be 'cos the
car's been sitting idle for so long and needs a good run to clean things out,
but does anyone have any suggestions?  All the plugs are clean, in good
condition and correctly gapped.

Scott.

>> Mini's also need a good thrash now and then

OK Derek, fancy a race??  ;-)

Scott

    You sure you know where the battery is in a mini. I recall a couple
    of women broken down, so big-he-man-me stops to help out... When
    I found out that the engine wouldn't even turn, I said : "Aha, flat
    battery...I'll give you a jump-start... I open the bonnet..., HUH?
    
    NO BATTERY !
    
    The women gently pointed out that the battery is somewhere by the
    back seat. At which point I suggested they call the AA and fled!
    
    -Shantanu

    re ;-1
    
    Had this problem once with a 850 mini. My friends first car. T'was
    a great laugh, but anyway the battery was in the boot, right down
    in the corner, and had the spare wheel 'plonked' on top. Took us
    a while to find it, and by then it was dead because he left the
    lights on (he crashed into some woods down a country lane!) - and
    to make things worse it was p****ng down with rain! Oh those were
    the days ;-) 
    
    Lewis.

Funny you should say that, it's something I keep thinking about.

I keep a coal fire going in the footwell to provide winter warmth, and want
something to put it out if things get out of hand...

But seriously, if I wanted a car fire extinguisher, it seems sensible to get one
plumbed in.  If the engine catches fire, by the time I've realised, got out, got
the bonnet open (assuming I can safely do so) and got an extinguisher out of the
boot it would probably be too late!!!!

What sort of extinguisher is best (foam, CO2, powder, halon, etc)?
Where should it be plumbed in (under bonnet, by fuel tank, etc)?
How is it activated (manually, auto (eg wax seal on spray melts in heat))?
How much do they cost?
How big need it be to cope with any fire I might get on the road (as oppoosed
to racing!)?
I won't bother for the mini, but it could be worth it in the future...

Scott.

    
    In the 23 the halon cylinder is under the front of the passenger seat,
    and there is a pipe going under the dash, in case of an electrical fire
    there, and the other outlet is under the carbs. It is manually operated
    from a large red pull switch on the dash.
    
    Costs - ours is 5kg (I think) cylinder + basic fittings about �80. You
    can get cheaper ones - but check that there is some mechanism that
    ensures that it functions at any angle.
    
    As I remember the difference in cost between the different sizes is not
    that great, so don't go for the little tiny ones. 
    
    If you're interested in seeing how the plumbing was done, come and look
    at the 23 some time!
    
    Elaine

re: .74 or something like that ...

    Could be a plug lead or the distributor cap causing it to run on
    three for a while and then four.

  Mark

Today's un-funny joke:

Q: What do you call a mini with a severely worn clutch release bearing?

A: Scott's  :-(

Last night was the first time I've run it with an exhaust on, hence the first
time it was quiet enough for the clutch to be audible.  It doesn't sound too
bad, an even rubbing noise whenever the pedal is pressed, but I'm not sure how
quickly it will deteriorate from here.

It's possible to replace the bearing with the engine / gearbox in the car, but
rather a long job.  I think I shall leave it for the time being; at least the
clutch works!

It's off for an MOT tomorrow, so fingers crossed... (I can't find anything it
should fail on, I think it will depend on what mood the tester is in!)

Scott.

    
>>      I think I shall leave it for the time being; at least the
>>   clutch works!
    
     You're not making a dig at my Landy, by any chance ? :-(
    
    Elaine

No, sorry, no thoughts of your Landy at all.  All I meant was while it still
worked I'd leave it alone.  Good luck for the weekend Elaine!
Scott

    
    I've got to get the Landy fixed this weekend, Derek wants to put the
    'body' back on the 23, and that means we have got to get the bits out of
    the back garden, through the living room, and 'through' the space in
    front of our front door, which is currently occupied by dead Landrover!
    - I've suggested he do the clutch himslef if he is so anxious to get it
    shifted, but he declined my offer...........

As readers of this conference will be aware, I have spent the last few weeks
restoring a mini.  I got the car for free from my brother, and have spent over
�130 repairing it.  I undertook this task based on the previous MOT (obtained
just prior to my brother getting the car) showing that there was nothing much
wrong with it.  More fool me.

I took it for an MOT on Saturday, and it failed.  The MOT man wrote a Booker
Prize winning MOT failure report for me, the long and short of which is that
the previous MOT must have been a complete fake.  The driver's side sill (which
is in the same condition as at the time of the previous MOT) wasn't even welded
on properly!  Not being familiar with what they check in the MOT, I hadn't
noticed this myself.  It's also easier to see when the car is on ramps at
eye level!

The driver's side floor pan needs a bit of work, and the front suspension and
drive-shafts need a couple of new bits.  Considering that the car has been off
the road for most of the time since the last MOT, these can not have
deteriorated from MOT-pass to MOT-fail condition between the two tests.

If I knew who'd done the previous MOT I'd be taking some action against them,
but my brother's lost the certificate and I can't think how else to find out.

Also, my attempts to adjust the gear linkage have failed, and it needs a new
one.  The engine runs fine, but (due most probably to low fuel level in the tank
causing the gunge to get sucked through) there is a fuel starvation problem.

I am afraid I don't really want to spend any more time on this car, as I want
to get started on the Moss as soon as possible (before I run out of summer!).

So...

MINI FOR SALE
Apart from the above listed, it's in excellent all round condition.  It has two
*brand new* tyres, two very good tyres, *brand new* exhaust, overhauled carb,
and just about everything else could be utilised as spares.  The seats are
black vinyl, and UNRIPPED!! (makes a change...).

So if anyone wants it for spares / repair, contact me to discuss price, etc.

Scott.    830 6896

     Hi,
     
     I have an '83 vintage GTI, having covered about 97k miles.  I have owned 
     the car for about 3 years and have never been impressed by the speed it 
     turns over when cold starting.
     
     An earlier Golf I had absolutely jumped into life as soon as I went for 
     the key.  This one turns over once then starts when stone cold, when 
     warm, it's pretty instant.  Don't get me wrong, it starts every time.  
     Just that I don't ever trust it.  This morning it turned over at about 
     one rev per 2 seconds, heart-stopping stuff on a cold (at -7 degrees C) 
     morning/evening!
     
     My drive to work is about 5 miles for half an hour.  10 minutes of that 
     is idling in small queues.  I also usually run with sidelights on and the 
     fresh air blower on setting 1 of 4
     
     
     The Battery is a 3 month old Bosch 45AH type (as standard spec), and I 
     have checked the voltage at the battery when off, slow running and fast 
     running.  The (Bosch) alternator usually keeps things up to 13.8 volts, 
     with main beam, heater, stereo and hazards it's down to 12.8 volts.  I am 
     told I is holding it's own as well as expected.
     
     Still, I don't trust the alternator brushes, but Volkswagen will only 
     sell a new regulator pack with the brushes attached for about �25  
     However Lucas and Autovolks have checked it on the car and said it's fine 
     (however neither here able to check the charge current).  
     
     Also my dipped lights change brightness only ever-so-slightly when 
     idling/revving, no major difference.  Also you can hear the engine note 
     change as more current is drawn by switching things on, so the alternator 
     is doing some work.
     
     
     I have cleaned the starter circuit and earth wiring 
     battery/engine/solonoid/starter connections and sprayed with copius 
     amounts of WD40 water repellant.  I have yet to check cranking voltage 
     drops at each point though.
     
     The expensive suspect is the starter motor.  Aparently I'm looking at 
     about �90 to replace and �50 to recondition the current one.
     
     At the moment this minor iritation is not enough to warrant �100 to 
     possibly fix.  I will put the battery on charge tonight to ensure it's 
     topped right up for tomorrow morning's test.
     
     Would a dodgy starter appear less dodgy if the battery is fully charged, 
     and so make the batter seem to be usually very low on charge?
     
     Any further advice would be much appreciated.
     Thanks,
     Robert.

    
    Hi Rob,
       I used to have a similar problem with an old ford. The very nice man
    from the AA told me that I needed a new battery because it started when
    fully charged, but the battery was new and the problem was a deformed
    motor shaft, with the oil thickening in the cold and the battery
    loosing charge the excessive friction of the motor gave the impression
    that the battery was flat (I'm not to sure what shape it should have
    been)..
    
      Alan.
    

    Alan,
           Batteries are usually, and correct me if I'm wrong, a sort of
    tubular shape, with a pointy bit on the top...
    
    :-) :-) :-) 

    
    Paul,
        and there I was thinking that that was a........(nah I won't say
    it.... :-) ), that the misses called a 'massager)
    
    
    , Alan
    

     Hi,
     
     Further to my note .91, it's fixed.  I would recommend this to any VW 
     owner with a similar situation.  
     
     I removed the starter motor by undoing two connections, and two securing 
     bolts.  The starter could then be methodically disassembled, a la Haynes 
     manual.
     
     The four brushes were found to be at the mimimum length, all bearings and 
     gears seemed to have hardly worn.  Not bad for 100k miles.  Guess that's 
     the advantage to Di and myself purchasing German Engineering!
     
     It was hard to obtain brushes for this Bosch Starter on a Saturday 
     morning, however I called a chap called David Hall, who advertises in the 
     Reading Yellow pages.  He provided me four brushes for �3
     
     I Gently cleaned the armature and soldered in the new brushes.  This took 
     two of us, as the metal you are soldering the thick wire to must be held 
     by a pair of pliers to act as a heat sink to protect the windings.  Not 
     for the squeemish if you are not hot with an iron.
     
     It would have been a different story if I had found anything mechanically 
     worn.  Car now starts with anger when stone cold, just like a new car 
     should.
     
     Total work time; 3 hours, total cost �3.
     Slightly cheeper than �50 or �90!
     
     David Hall's home based business reconditions starters and alternators.  
     He quoted me a price of �15+VAT when I went to collect the brushes, 
     that's the price if you take the removed starter to him and leave it.  I 
     would have taken this up if I had not done half the job myself by then, 
     and had I not required my car for a few days.
     
     Regards,
     Rob.

    My wife's Yugo 511 (1100cc) has developed an intermittant starting
    problem.
    
    The other day it wouldn't start from cold. When you turned the ignition
    on, the red lights displayed on the dashboard, but when you turned the
    key fully to crank the engine, absolutely nothing happened. There was
    no click at all. After bump starting the car it fired fine and I
    thought no more about it as I thought it was the battery that was low
    (the car had been left for several days).
    
    Since then the car has had constant use and the problem has reappeared
    today. If its not a low battery is it likely to be the starter or
    the ignition switch itself ?
    
    Any thoughts or similar experiences ?  (Apart from suggestions about
    buying a real car :-) )
    
    Thanks
    
    Roy

    
    You could try cleaning the earth straps..... 
    
    Elaine

    Agreed.  I had exactly this with my Beetle (a long time ago...).  The
    battery seemed fine except for a total no comment from the starting
    equipment.  Not even a click from the solenoid.  Cleaned the battery
    terminals and VROOOM!
    
    My 2ic had the same problem with his Granada - I told him to clean his
    terminals and it was sorted.
    
    
    Can't hurt...
    
    
    Richard
    
    

    I'll clean the battery terminals tonight and put on some peroleum jelly.
    
    I did disconnect and reconnet both terminals when I first had the
    problem and it made no difference. The bump start at that time cured
    the problem.
    
    As there was no "click" I've been advised that it could be the solenoid
    thats faulty.
    
    Roy

    	Could be either solenoid or the starter motor jammed. Next time it
    	happens, try putting the car in gear and rocking it slightly -
    	then retry.
    
    	Ian.

    I'd just put on some petroleum jelly & forget the car...

    Thanks folks for comments (except .-1 :-) ).
    
    The car was eventually started after the starter motor received a little
    bash. I guess this means that it is the solenoid thats a bit dodgy.
    
    Roy
    
    

    If you've got problems starting, eg. engine turns/cranks slowly
    [sometimes a little faster then a little slower then..] and you keep
    the key in the "start" position for say 10+ seconds trying to get it to
    start [or trying to understand the problem/cause] - could you end up
    "frying" some of the wiring? [frying == wire gets hot and starts to
    melt the plastic covering]. 
    
    I thought I read in the [why_dont_they_warn_you_that_you_have_to_
    remove_10_other_things_to_get_this_one_bolt_out] Haynes manual that you
    shouldn't crank the engine for more than 10 seconds at a time...
    
    So if you did notice say that the wiring from the top of the front
    suspension struts that's grounded to the car body near the front head
    lights starts to go a strange texture and is pretty warm [one time
    almost smoking] could this show that you've a short circuit somewhere 
    or is it as expected because you've been cranking too long or...?
    
    Basically I've replaced the battery [car's 5+ years old], cleaned up
    battery connections, the engine/body earth points that I've found
    [battery to body, battery to engine plus 2 points near headlights
    (mentioned above) for some of the "lighter" wiring]. I've also pulled
    out the starter motor stripped it down etc. and all looks okay, cleaned
    up the connections from the +ve battery terminal over to the starter
    motor etc. I also had a quick look at the alternator... Tried a
    different starter motor and 2 alternators from a breakers yard... and
    still it turns slowly... I also wondered if it was the gubbings in
    "behind" the key because I found sometimes that if you turned the key
    fully [to try and start it] and then brought the key back slightly it
    seemed to improve the speed of the starter motor/cranking/turnover and
    so start it quicker. The last couple of days I tried it full on again
    and I now pretty much getting the same results...  
    
    Once I get it started, which in the morning is normally longer than
    lunchtime/hometime start, then it's perfectly normal functioning car...
    
    I'm wondering about "jumping" the key assembly but I don't want to
    start screwing things up...
    
    Any suggestions apart from changing the driver, buying a new car,
    taking it to a garage [that's my last ditch effort 'cause it'll no
    doubt cost a lot of dosh while they prance around looking for the
    cause...]...?
    
    Dave

    It certainly sounds like an earthing problem.
    
    I would not have thought that any significant current would be intended
    to pass through the earth link you appear to describe, so it sounds
    like one of the main earth straps between battery, body and engine is
    high resistance.
    
    The one you describe as getting hot sounds a little strange.  You said
    it runs from the strut top to the body near the front panel.  I assume
    that there is also a strap from the strut top to the engine or other
    body panels.  The exact route of this one (which actually seems to be
    carrying the current) might give you a pointer to where the actual
    problem lies.
    
    In any case, I would say that your problem is more a long circuit than
    a short circuit!   Are you sure that there are no straps missing?  I
    could well imagine that there should be a strap between one of the
    starter motor bolts and the body.
    
    Incidentally, I remember working on an old Austin A40 some years back
    where the owner complained that the choke cable kept sticking.  In fact
    the earth strap was missing, and the only real path to earth during
    starting was the choke cable.  This was then effectively welded!  His
    local dealer kept swapping the cable for a new one (4 times would you
    believe) before he brought it in to us.
    
    Good luck finding your problem
    Chris
    
    
    
    

	Sounds very like a bad/missing engine to chassis strap
	as described before.

	If you have some jum leads connect one from the 
	battery ground side to the engine/starter motor and
	see what effect it has.

	-John

    .104
    
    Chris,

    Umm - as far as I can see all the straps are there - the only
    wires/straps from the top of the front suspension structs are those
    going to either side of the front panel [just beside the headlight
    assembly]. I've kept on meaning to check out the wheel housings to see
    what's around in this area... 

    Interesting you mention the clutch cable because there's been a couple
    of times when I've been driving along and I've wondered if my eyes were
    deceiving me because I thought the choke light was flickering ever so
    slightly [when the choke was being used after just starting the car].

    My main concern is that the trouble lies behind the dashboard and this
    is one area I don't fancy trying to get into.

    Anyway looks like it's back to the good old Haynes wonderful wiring
    diagram just to see where it says there's more earthing points...

    
    .105
    
    John,
    
    Not sure if I've already tried this but I'll certain give it a go just
    to make certain...
    
    Thnx guys

    Dave