Conference 7.286::home_work

No... but be prepared to be redirected by the moderator police!  8-)

    TRY AGWAY IN NORTHBOROUGH.
    
    

edgemere power equipment, rt 20, shrewsbury sells and services them i
think. can't really say much good or bad, i just happened to check in there
shopping for a snowblower. which i still don't have - hold the snow!

craig

>                -< I love it when I beat him to the new notes! >-
>
>No... but be prepared to be redirected by the moderator police!  8-)

Ha, Ha, not this time.  You may have beat me, but you beat me the wrong way! :^)
I'm GLAD for a new snowblower note.  Should I direct him to find what he's
looking for in the current 200+ reply snowblower note? 

Paul

..Moderator police, over and out..

    
    Edgemere in Shrewsbury and Jackson's in Marlboro are both Bolens
    dealers.
    
    CdH
    

Egads!   The moderator police are getting logical on me!  8-)   8-)

But that belongs in the topic on moderation!  8^)

    Try Village Farm in Berlin (508 838-2484). Also, Jackson's in Marlboro
    is no more, they went out of business about 4 weeks ago.

    You might give Monnick's Supply in Framingham, Mass. a call.
    They sell Bolens snowblowers.

    
    
      There's a place on route 20 near Marine USA that has several Bolens
    snowthrowers parked in front. I'd have to say that part of route 20
    is in Shrewsbury.
    
    BAL

    
    That's edgemere power equipment, mentioned in .3
    
    CdH
    

I haven't seen any notes with respect to small engines stalling out, so here
goes.

Last weekend we were able to operate our snowblower for about 30-45 minutes
when it started stalling.  I let it rest for about an hour or more, and then
got another 20 minutes of work out of it before it started stalling again.
Another half hour rest, then another 5 minutes of work before I gave up and
did the last small patch with the electric snowshovel.

Whenever the engine stalled, it would start up again easily enough, but only
run for a couple of seconds.  Closing the choke as it stalled would cause it
to catch and restart; I'd have to open the choke again in a second or two, 
after which it would give me another second or two of smooth running before
stalling again.

The first thing that comes to mind is water in the gasoline.  This seems quite
likely (we had to refill the gas tank when it ran out at the far end of the 
driveway), but I don't see why letting it sit for a while would cure it.
Vapor lock would be an obvious candidate for a car, but not for a snowblower.
Could something be overheating and ruining the fuel mixture?  Any other
ideas?

   Gary

>< Note 3703.0 by TLE::FELDMAN "Digital Designs with PDF" >
>                            -< Snowblower stalling >-

Possibly a restriction in the gas cap vent.

    
    
    Closing the choke restricts the airflow, thus richening up the
    air/fuel mixture, mine was doing basically the same thing last
    year. I suggest reajusting the carb, plus following the advice
    of Re.1
    
    
    
    Royce

    If it had been running well before this incident, don't adjust
    anything. Sounds strongly that something has slowed the flow of gas
    to the engine, or perhaps more accurate to the carburetor; once the 
    engine has had a rest, the carburetor fills slowly again, and is good 
    for a short spell and then empties. Choking would help for a very 
    short period (seconds not minutes). Check for free flow of gas from
    the tank to the carburetor, starting with the small vent hole in the 
    cap; if you are not sure of this opening, try running it with the cap
    loosened to allow a full flow of air. Barring that, look inside the
    tank at what should be a screen filter in the bottom of tank, it may
    be plugged, then check (if you have one) the glass bowl under the tank
    which should be full of gas. If it is, check the gas-line beyond the bowl
    into the carburetor, the most likely next candidate beyond a plugged
    fuel line would be a sticky float in the carburetor; check this by
    lightly rapping the side of the carb float chamber with the back end
    of a screw driver, and if that doesn't work, pull the top of the carb
    and check that the the float is free and the small valve at the gas 
    inlet point if free.
    
    If this (or these) clears the problem, spray clean the carb with a good
    carb cleaner spray (lightly), and if this (or these) don't work I will
    take your problems off you hands for $50.00 (delivered of course!)

    I'd do just as the other replies already suggested; very good checks.
    In fact, I'd rule out gas flow problems first.
    
    But, if all that fails to produce results, then...
    
    I remember having an outboard motor that behaved just like that
    too, but the problem turned out to be a bad magnito coil.  It would
    run quite a while from a dead cold engine, but when fully warmed
    up, the problem would occurr.  With the engine warmed up, it would
    start, but would stall in a few seconds.  But, would run a lot longer
    from a dead cold start, say quite a few minutes, but often longer
    than it would take to empty the gas out of the carburator's bowl.
    If the unit has a solid state ignition, could the power module be
    bad?
    

    I had that problem once.  I solve it by giving it a slug of alcohol.
    About half a "can" of dry gas.  I think condensation had gotten water
    into the gas lines.
    
    ed

    
       I had the same problem this past weekend, I adjusted the set
    screw under the carburetor while running until it would run
    smoothly without the choke out.  It has run smoothly since.
    
                 Mark

	I had the same problem this weekend also. I gave up and put it 
away for the night. But figured it had to be the gas as I had run out early 
that day and had just re-fueled with a new batch.

				...Dave

    Sounds like a classic case of vapor lock.  If the gas tank is seperate
    from the engine the carb is fed by a fuel line.  If the line is too
    close to the hot engine block you will get vapor lock.  When the hot
    engine stops for any reason (out of gas or other) heat will cause any
    gas left in the line to vaporize, the pressure will keep liquid fuel
    from reaching the carb until the line cools off.  A quick test is to
    spray a little water on the fuel line let it sit a few mins and re-try. 
    Moving the fuel an inch or two usually fixes the problem.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Joe D  (who_used_to_keep_a_spray_bottle_in_his_1953_VW)
    

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I'll try looking at the tank for possible
clogs this weekend.  The most likely possibility is that the float is
misadjusted to be too tight, since we recently had it adjusted for being too
loose (it was leaking gasoline).  It didn't occur to me that it could be
adjusted wrong, because we were obviously getting some gasoline and the leak was
fixed.

As I said in the base note, vapor lock doesn't seem reasonable for a snowblower.
Vapor locks occurs in cars with conventional diaphragm fuel pumps.  Rather
than forcing the liquid gasoline through the outlet valve, the diaphragm just
compresses and releases the vapor bubble, pumping no gas.  Vapor lock
is much less of a problem with fuel-injected engines that use a different
type of fuel pump at the gas tank.  In the case of the snowblower, the fuel
is fed by gravity into the carburetor, so I can't see how vapor lock could
be a problem.

Or is there something wrong with this reasoning?

   Gary

    Usually, dirt on the needle valve is what gums up a snowblower carb (I
    know because I cleaned my carbs insides this winter), causing the fuel
    spill (needle valve sticks and doesn't thoroughly close). The float
    itself only controls the valve, when the gas gets to some predetermined
    level, it shuts the valve. So perhaps the float height was not set
    correctly.
    
    Eric

    I've had a problem lately with fuel leaking from the carb. Could this
    be due to the float valve? I examined the float last weekend, and it
    didn't appear to be dirty... Any suggestions?
    
    Dave

    What you might have is dirt in the needle valve asmy., preventing the
    valve from completely shutting, with the result of too high a fuel
    level, and fuel spilling out of the vent. I had the same problem this
    season and had to take the bowl apart and clean the needle valve and
    its seat (BOTH must be done) with spray carb cleaner, which cured the
    problem.
    
    Eric

I've rebuilt close to 100 snowblower carbs. over the past 5 years and
speak with a bit of experience 8-). On the Techumseh, most commonly used
snowblower engine: There are three seals to deal with on the carb bowl.
The purge stem seal, the bowl gasket and the main jet seal. The purge stem
gasket is the most common failure. This seal deteriorates if gas is left
in the bowl over a long period of time. 
The other gaskets rarely fail, but I change them as part of the overhaul.
AS far as contaminated carburetors leaking, in most cases the opposite happens.
The needle valve is stuck in it's seat and stops the flow of gas to the
bowl.
If you do have a problem with carb. flooding, check the brass float. This *also*
deteriorates, leaks and sinks. As a matter of fact, I know of many repair 
shops that will routinely replace the float as part of a tuneup. 
Another common problem with fouled carbs: if you do have gas in the bowl and the
carb. is not metering (no fuel to the intake), check the small orafice in
the threaded area of the main jet assembly. Usually plugged.


Ross

re: .13

I assume that the main jet seal is somewhere at the base of the central screw 
assembly that both houses the main jet and serves to hold the bowl onto
the carb?  I never noticed a seal there when we first disassembled the bowl,
though it obviously had to be there.  Where is the purge stem seal?

Is it safe to test the carb for leakage using water (after removing it
from the engine), and assuming substantial drying time and/or a final rinse
with alcohol?  Recovering spilled gasoline seems like a dangerous approach,
for several obvious reasons (not to mention what gasoline does to one's hands).

Taking a class on small engine repair has moved up in priority for me.  Trying
to learn from the Chilton manual just doesn't cut it.

   Gary

>< Note 3703.14 by TLE::FELDMAN "Digital Designs with PDF"

The main jet seal is a washer shaped gasket that sits between the bowl and
the sholder of the jet assembly. The purge stem is the little spring loaded
rod that sticks down the bottom side of the bowl. (used to drain bowl gas for
summer storage). <- Which most people don't do and hence the need for overhauls.
What you should do is spring for the $6 carb. overhaul kit and an extra
$4 for a new brass float, then rebuild. (new seals, gaskets, float valve/seat,
main jet assembly).

Ross

    I had the exact same symptoms a couple of weeks ago.  I ended up
    replacing the spark plug and dumping vast quantities of dry-gas
    into the tank.  I think the real problem was a loose spark-plug.
    Snow-blowers vibrate rather violently, and I don't really torque
    a spark plug very much for fear of stripping the head.  This would
    explain why it ran better with the choke on.  I know this reply
    is late, but if you're still having trouble, check the plug.
    
    Steve

    I am having a problem with my snowblower.  It took numerous starts
    this morning (about a dozen) to keep it running.  Each time it would
    run for about 20 seconds and stall.  Once I finally got it to keep
    running, it was surging (high rev, low rev, high rev, low rev) over
    and over.  Playing with the choke and throttle would only cause it
    to stall.  When putting it into gear it would also stall.
    
    2 to 3 weeks ago I cleaned the plug, changed the oil, sprayed all the
    linkage with carb cleaner, sprayed cleaner down the air intake while
    running, and I had it running fine for about 20 minutes, even had it
    running in gear and the blades activated as well.
    
    I read earlier responses and will check the fuel cap tomorrow, will
    try running without a cap, will then try draining the gas in the tank
    and put in fresh gas.  If all this does not resolve the problem I am
    wondering about the procedure for adjusting the carb.  I only see
    one screw at a 45 degree angle which I believe to be the needle valve.
    I will have to remove the metal housing/cover to hopefully find an
    idle valve screw. 
    
    Can anyone tell me the procedure for carb adjustement, which screw
    first, how many turns in/out?
    
    Much thanks, Mark

    That engine screw your talking about is probably the culprit. Adjust it
    one way or the other until the engine runs smoothly. It doesn't take
    much, so go a little at a time.
    
    I have a Toro 760 (or 7something) and when that screw goes out of 
    adjustment the engine surge's just like you describe. Depending on use,
    I usually end up resetting it a couple of times throuh the winter.

    I have a problem with my Toro that I'm not sure is a problem.
    
    In heavy snow conditions, one wheel will generally loose traction and
    the blower will either bog down because both wheels arent' pulling it,
    or it will jerk to one side or the other. This happens with both
    wheels.
    
    What I found by looking it over is that there is about a half inch of
    play in the axle. Meaning it can slide from side to side about a half
    inch. When it does, it's just enough for the wheel to disengage.
    
    It doesn't "look" like there's anything missing that would allow the
    axle to move. In other words, it looks normal. If it is, it's a pain
    in the butt. But therein lies the question. Is it normal or should that
    axle NOT move the way it does.
    
    STeve

    I would not think the axle should move.  Perhaps you are missing a
    pin that holds it in place.  
    
    I don;t think that mine moves.  I'll check it tomorrow as I try to
    resolve my stalling/surging problem.
    
    Mark

    Mark,
    
      You certainly should have fresh gas in there before you worry about
    anything else. I highly doubt its the cap, but its easy to try. If you
    have an inline fuel filter, that is also something to check. But first,
    get fresh gas in there!
    
    				Kenny

    I was hoping it was just a needle valve adjustment, but no.
    
    I got it running and played with the needle valve.  Turning it inward
    would cause it to lean out and stall, turning it outward would not
    change anything.  In otherwords it would stay running but still stall
    after placed in gear.  I took the carb off (B&S 8hp Sno-Gard engine)
    with a 2 piece flo-jet carb.  Took out the needle valve and idle valve
    cleaned out the carb with carb cleaner.  There was green deposit on the
    needle valve (old gas).  The needle valve had a slight groove in it but
    a small engine mechanic said it looked ok this morning.  
    
    I will clean off the valves, re-install the carb, and replace the old
    gas with fresh gas and try again tomorrow morning.
    
    As always much thanks for all the help!  Mark (to be continued)

    
    
    Is the governor working right?  Might be a little gumed up??
    
    JD

    	This sounds very similar to the problem I'm having with my
    snowblower, although you're fortunate enough to know what the hell
    you're doing! In my case, I'm able to run it in gear initially for
    about 15-20 minutes. Then it dies. I can't restart it right away, but
    after 15-20 minutes or so, I can start it, and it will run for 5-10
    minutes before it dies again. It's glowing red inside the exhaust tube
    when it dies.
    	I suspected it was running too lean. I was told that if this was
    the case, then opening the choke slightly when it started to run rough
    (about to die) should make the engine smooth out. Well, the engine
    would die immediately when I did this. So I suspected, instead, that it
    was running too rich. I made some fine adjustments to the same needle
    valve adjustment, and it *did* appear to smooth out a little and run a
    little longer (just sitting in my driveway - not clearing snow). I
    guess tomorrow will be the big test since we're expecting a big storm.
    If I have to shovel my entire, huge driveway again as I did for this
    last smaller storm, it'll be scrap metal when I'm through with it.
    	Oh, and in case you're thinking about trying it, beating the
    snowblower with a snow shovel doesn't help either...although it made me
    feel a whole lot better.

    re .23  governor
    
    How do you tell if it is working correctly?  It is moving
    freely, and the engine will throttle up and down without any
    resistance in the linkage.  
    
    re .24
    
    I would suspect the fuel feed/lines and carb.  When it dies
    check to see if there is any gas in the carb.  Don;t know
    what type of carb you have but if there is a drain screw under
    the bowl, unscrew it.  If not you can unscrew the needle valve
    (but take note as to where it was set before hand).  If there
    is no gas in the carb, trace the line back to see where it is
    clogging.  This could also be a candidate for a plugged up gas
    cap, try loosening the cap.
    
    If there is gas in the carb, perhaps your choke should be more 
    open after the engine has warmed up.
    
    Good luck.  Mark
    

re: .24 There's a quick test you can do.  When the blower dies,
trying priming it. If all you hear is air, then fuel flow
is blocked somewhere.  I had this exact situation. Priming just
sucked in air vs fuel.

Went to the dealer, got
a $7 dollar carb. rebuilding kit and was all set to spend the
night rebuilding carb.  Turns out that power mixture  needle
was gummed up and turn it and out cleared it. Now
I have a kit safely tucked away for the next emergency.

Gim

    I installed the cleaned out carb and was attempting to drain the
    gas tank when I discovered the flow from the tank was very slow.
    
    Turns out the tank was extremely clogged, it allowed enough gas to
    run, but not with a load (thats my guess anyways).  I cleaned out
    the tank, pet-cock, replaced the filter and fuel lines. 
    
    I have yet to re-install and test, hope to do it tonite.  
    
    Thanks, Mark

    I put everything back together last nite, poured gas in the tank
    and noticed that the carb leaks gas.  I opened up the carb this
    morning and picked up a rebuild kit ($14.25).  The float was ok,
    must have been some crud on the float needle valve (I guess).
    
    Anything special to watch out for or to do in the rebuild process?
    
    I plan to replace everything that came with the kit.  I guess thats
    pretty obvious though.  Noticed more slime in the internal bowl,
    will clean everything out.
    
    I assume these gaskets just go in place without any type of gasket
    sealer, correct?
    
    Thanks, Mark

    I have another general carb question.  What prevents the gas from
    leaking out of the carb bowl when the engine is off?  Does it only
    exit the bowl when the engine is running due to suction?
    
    Thanks, Mark

    
      Yes Mark. The float keeps the fuel at a level that is below where the
    fuel could normally just 'leak out'. It is the venturi effect (which
    cause a low pressure area in a certain spot inside the carb) which
    'draws' the fuel up a tube. (Actually, there are at least two seperate
    'tubes' in any carb. More sophisticated carbs, like the ones in cars
    and on my snowmobile have several circuits, air bleeds and pressure
    compensation holes.)
    
      If the fuel drips out of an upper area of the carb, then usually it
    is because the float valve is not maintaining the fuel at the right
    level and allowing it to keep flowing into the carb till it fill it up
    to where it *can* leak out.
    
    				Kenny

    Ken, so therefore my problem could also be that the float was sitting
    to high in the bowl.  
    
    I will rebuild in the next day or so, and will also start using the
    petcock under the gas tank to run the carb dry after each use.
    
    Thanks for all the help and advice.  Hopefully I can apply some
    knowledge gained here towards the outboards this spring!  
    
    Mark

    
      Its possible, but extremely unlikely that the float was too high in
    the bowl. (I can only think of one way that could happen drastically
    enough to cause your problem - human intervention - somebody was
    messing with it)
      INFINTELY more likely is that it is stuck (or was - often the flow
    of fresh gas dissovles the gunk enough that the float 'floats' after a
    couple minutes - my snowblower did this this fall and is fine now) 
    to the bottom of the float chamber by gunk. Another normal problem is
    that you get dirt or crud on the float valve seat. There is very little
    pressure on that seat and so it doesn't take much to keep it from
    closing properly when the float pushes it.
    
      There is no need at ALL to run the carb dry after each use. You only
    have to worry if you're not going to use it for a long time.
    
    				Kenny

    
    I am convinced that all my problems began when I poured some
    carb/injector cleaner in the gas tank.  It worked good, so good that it
    removed all the sediment in the gas tank, allowed it to build up at the
    drain hole of the gas tank and clog it up.  That plus the fact that
    there was a lot of old gas crud in the carb itself.
    
    I know have a cleaned out tank, new filter, new lines, and about to
    rebuild the carb.  I noticed that the nozzle in the carb kit is
    slightly different from the old nozzle in regards to the little pin
    holes.  The old one has 3 large holes mid-point, the new one has 4
    smaller holes plus 2 even smaller holes above it, all just above
    mid-point. I called the shop this morning where I bought it and the
    technician said it "should not" make a difference.  Anyone have an
    opinion on this:
    
    old:      ||=======x===========             x = 3 pin holes
    
    new:      ||=========x===x=====             x = 4 + 2 pin holes
    
    I also noticed that the float when in place and held upside down is
    not level to the carb body all the way around.  It is closer near the
    tang, and further away at the other end.  I read that I need to bend
    the tang to make it level all around.
    
    One final question I keep forgetting to ask.  The air intake comes thru
    a long narrow box that attaches to the carb.  There is no filter.  Is
    it normal to have no air filter on a snow blower?  The way it is
    designed it would be very difficult for anything but dust to get in
    there, and I would speculate that there is no dust when operating a
    snow blower (unlike a lawn mower).
    
    Much thanks!  Mark
    

    
    > I am convinced that all my problems began when I poured some
    > carb/injector cleaner in the gas tank. 
    
    That clinches it.  I've been having the same problems and that was
    the first thing I did when I gassed up the old girl last week too.
    Unfortunately, Outdoor Power in Nashua have been unable to come
    and collect it as they're so busy.
    
    C
    

    I had problems getting my Toro 521 running this morning.  
    Finally some persuation with a hair dryer on the carb thawed/unstuck
    something.  I had not added any gas since storing it dry last year.
    Wish I'd run it a bit back in November.
    
    Started up and ran fine, except it would not run at anything but full
    choke.  Any attempt to turn back the choke would cause it to
    immediately die.   Is this normal in this severe weather, or should I
    be pulling my carb and cleaning it too??
    
    	Dave.  (haven't opened a small engine since High School shop)

    
      No Dave, its not normal. The snowblower should run fine in this
    weather and only running at full choke is not fine. It sounds like a
    clogged carb. Evidently *something* was or is in there from when you
    stored it.
    
    				Kenny

    When I took mine into the shop they told me that 90 percent of their
    work was fuel-feed problems.
    

    Done deal and working...
    
    Rebuilt the carb last nite, as it turned out the float was sitting
    perfectly parallel after installing the new float needle.  I did not
    bother to figure that one out.
    
    Installed carb this morning, no gas leaks, engine started on the first
    pull, did some minor adjustements, and she ran perfectly (with the new
    nozzle as well).
    
    Did 3 storms worth of packed snow, and I am a happy snowblower owner!
    
    Thanks for all the help, Mark
    
    Regarding the other entry and the choke.  I had to close the choke
    to start it, and then immediately open it up a little, after it warmed
    I completely opened the chole plate (no choke).

    Well, I just changed the gas in mine and cleaned up a very sooty plug
    (bad news...) and it ran as long as the choke is 1/2 shut.
    
    Then promptly went out and sucked up one of those damn free newspapers
    which was buried in the snow.  The impeller is nicely jammed up!
    
    Next job....

    Is the impeller the part that throws the snow out the chute?
    
    Speaking of augers...  Lots of body parts are lost each winter
    becuase people get to much snow packed in there (or some other
    debree) and the augers stop, and they use their HANDS to pull
    the snow/debree out of the auger.  Always use a stick like a
    broom handle to get everything out.
    
    I is my understanding that even though the engine is off, there is
    still tension in the auger, once the clog is removed the auger spins to
    relieve all the tension, and thats when people loose fingers and hands,
    etc.
    
    I have never had a clog to see an auger re-coil (my first year with
    a blower).  
    
    Mark

    
    Thanks for that timely warning - I had no idea and was ripping the
    stuff out by hand this morning.  By "impeller" I was referring to the
    fan-blade like wheel behind the auger that actually chucks the snow.
    
    C

Throbbing snow blowers and throbbing lawn mowers are a sign of inadequate 
storage preparation.

See note 245.314 in DLOACT::CARBUFFS for proper storage preparations for 
small gasoline engines.

    
    
    
    ...Oh,,Thats what must have happened to the paperboy!!!!!
    
    

>    Then promptly went out and sucked up one of those damn free newspapers
>    which was buried in the snow.  The impeller is nicely jammed up!

    If you call the phone number that is usually printed on the plastic bag
    that "those damn free newspapers" are delivered in, you can have
    delivery cancelled for your house.  I've done it successfully with
    several different distributers.

    ---Phil

    Would these plastic bags the paper comes in be Orange by chance??????
    After several phone calls requesting that they stop leaving them with
    no success, I called one night and told the lady very politely that if
    I received another one, I was going to be "waiting" for the delivery
    person the next time.
    
    Havn't received one since........

    
    The kicker is, it was ny neighbour's paper as I was doing him
    a favour by digging out his mailbox.  A double kicker in that stopping
    the engine dead seems to have written off the engine, and I'm
    out $375 for a new one.  :-(
    
    Colin
    

>    the engine dead seems to have written off the engine, and I'm
>    out $375 for a new one.  :-(

Are you sure it's not just a sheared flywheel key?  A bit of work and 
another 35 cent key and you should be back in business.

We used to go through them regularly with the rental lawnmowers (I worked 
at Taylor Rental *years* ago)

    
    I don't know - there's a fair bit of oil coming from one of the head
    bolts and it runs but blows back through the carb like heck.  The plug
    is very oily after only a few seconds.  In case there were fragments in
    the cylinder, I didn't try it for very long, although I can engage the
    transmission.  I thought the piston might have hit a valve.  It's going
    to the shop on Friday, so I'll know then.   They tell me that the
    white-painted engines are 13 years old, and I got it for $300 so I
    can't complain.
    
    C

    Dave,
    	I have the same smowblower & had the same problem. The first storm
    we got I tried to start it & tried & tried. I pushed the primer but it
    sounded like it was just sucking in air. Finally it started but like
    you said it would only run on full choke. This last storm I tried to
    start it but the same thing happened. With thoughts of having to take
    it to a shop for repair & not getting it back for weeks plus having to
    go out & shovel! No way! I was determined to fix it myself (I hoped!)
    
    I ck'd the spark plug & decided to replace it. Still nothing. While
    running I adjusted the high & low idle screws still no change. Then I
    decided to check the needle valve (I think that's what it is, just below 
    the carb) I gave it a 1/4 turn to the right then back to the beginning,
    then a 1/4 turn to the left then back to the beginning. That's it! I did
    it! Whew! With the choke wide open it started to die I turn it off & it
    purred like a kitten (a very loud kitten, though). I sprayed the inside
    of the carb with some Gumout & I was on my way. 
    
    I had done the same thing you did, left it at the end of the season. I
    didn't do any storeage prep (I usually do) I didn't test start it in
    the early fall (I usually do) & I almost paid for it, I lucked out.
    Lesson learned, I would do that again.
    
    Hope this helps,
    Alan

    RE .49  Gummed up?
    
    	Well I felt the same pressures and started taking it apart.
    After removing the "heater box" (the metal cover over the carb),
    I spotted the bowl and the needle screw sticking out from below.
    I screwed in the needle, carefully counting the turns, then pulled it
    out and cleaned the gunk off it.   
    
    Then I unscrewed the hollow shaft it was in, releasing the bowl.
    The bowl was clean, but the float seemed stuck.  I wiggled it until it
    moved freely. (I didn't have any Gumout with me, this was Saturday
    morning)  Then put it all back together.  Everything else looked too
    complicated to attack without a manual.
    
    Now that I knew where that main needle was, I found it easy to tweak it
    while running (the heater box is open on the bottom).  I just did it by
    ear as I ran the thrower.  Now it doesn't run under choke at all.
    I have to keep it wide open.
    
    I may repeat this procedure when I can get some Gumout.
    
    	Dave.

    RE:.47

>We used to go through them regularly with the rental lawnmowers (I worked 
>at Taylor Rental *years* ago)

    Skip I used to work for Taylor Rental years ago myself.  I remember
    when they advertised for the job they wanted somebody that was
    mechanically inclined.  This guys idea of mechanically inclined was putting
    gas in the mowers when they came back, when he caught me cleaning and
    regapping a plug one day he hit the roof.  Needless to say I only
    stayed there for 4 weeks and then I found this gravy job at DEC.

    Joe

Which one?  I worked at the Boston Road store  --  before they built the 
new one across the street.  We had the best of everything in that store.  
It was the only Dealer Supply owned store in the Springfield area.  the 
rest were franchises or were too far away to be able to "run over and get a 
new one" when we'd rented everything out and a customer needed something.  
Ken Konopka was the store manager then.  He left and became a Wilbraham cop 
shortly after I left.

I did a lot of heavy mechanical repairs down in the old YMCA building in 
West Springfield on...what's that street Clark's Gulf is on the corner 
of?  I think the place is senior citizen housing now.

My paycheck even came from Dealer Supply.

I left there around '69.

    Skip I worked in two of the franchises Chicopee & Holyoke (same guy).  
    It was a shame to watch this guy let things go the way he did.  I only
    worked for him for 4 weeks (2 weeks in each store) so I never saw 
    anything go out for repairs and I was never allowed to repair anything.  
    There was a growing pile of things that needed repair but gas and oil 
    was all I did.  Oh I did get to sharpen chain saws too.  Sorry for the
    rat hole.

    Joe

    So, has anyone had a chance to check out the axle on their snowblower
    yet to check for side to side play????
    
    I'll re-describe the problem. I have a Toro 726 snowblower. Each wheel
    is individually driven. There are two knobs on the control panel that
    you push in or pull out (up) to engage or disengage the wheels.
    Supposedly, this is so you can make "power turns".
    
    There is a mechanism on each side of the blower that moves in and out
    along the drive shaft (axle) and engages the wheels. What's happening
    is that there is about 1/2 inch of side to side play in the axle that
    is just enough to allow the wheel to DISengage from the mechanism.
    This causes a bouncing effect in that each wheel will alternately
    engage/disengage as the axle slides back and forth. This generally
    causes the snowblower to move forward in a side to side wabbling
    motion.
    
    I've taken everything off of the axle on the outside of the machine
    and can't see anything that is missing/worn or otherwise causing the
    shaft to move like it does.
    
    Does anyone have any idea what might be happening here?????? Is there
    something worn or broken that would cause the axle to move like that.
    
    STeve

    Steve.

    Mine has no axle play/movement.  But then I don't have 2 separate knobs
    for each wheel either.  Just one.  

    Call a place that services Toro 726 blowers and ask them if this is a
    problem than can be fixed.  Could be a common problem and some kind of
    worn bushings on the axle or something.

    My blower was making this awful metallic clanging noise.  Sounded like
    something was in the auger.  The noise was coming and going whenever
    the auger was engaged.  When the auger would be off, the noise was
    gone.  I would visually inspect the auger and see nothing in there.
    Engage the auger and clang, clang, clang.  It finally stopped.  I later
    found out my wife's keys was dropped in the driveway.  I figured they
    must have gotten in there and were finally thrown.  Ended up finding
    the keys a week later and they were not scratched up.  So, I don't
    think the clanging was from the keys.  

    Anyone have this auger clanging noise problem?  Thanks, Mark

Steve,
  I know your problem well. There are dog gears on
both sides (thro-out side and wheel side) although
they don't look worn they are probably just rounded
enough that under a load they a slipping. Another
possibility is the red collar that holds the dog gear
on the snowblower side and actually  moves along 
axle to engage the dog gears, well that red collar
could be worn either on the pivot end (up against
the engine case) or the hole that the allen screw
that screws into the dog gear is worn. What I ended
up doing is having a welding shop add some metal
to the crowns on the dog gear that is pushed onto
the wheels (by splines) I then ground them as I need-
ed to and it work fine now.

Good Luck

Kevin

re:56

Steve,

  You could also try adding washers to the outside of
the wheels as long as you  can get the cotter pins
back in place. Some times it's just the cotter pins
that are bent or worn just enough to create a little
play.

Kevin

    Kevin,
    
    	You've pretty much nailed it down. The gears "are" a little
    rounded and the constant slipping makes it worse over time.
    
    	Do the allen screws on the red collar represent any kind of
    adjustment or do they just hold everything together. I had that whole
    collar off the other night and there doesn't appear to be any slop
    anyplace. 
    
    There "is" some slop in the mechanism that pushes that collar out to
    engage the wheel. There's just a little pin that goes through the red
    collar and is held in with a cotter pin. That pin goes through a piece
    of metal that is attached to the rod you push/pull to engage/disengage
    the wheel. That whole area is a little sloppy. I suppose that could
    prevent the red collar from moving out as far as it should.
    
    Thanks for the help. It's a dynamite snow blower otherwise.
    
    Steve

Steve,

  All the allen screws do is hold the dog gear in the
center of the red collar and allow the dog gear to 
swivel slightly.  Good Luck

Kevin

    Kevin, one more question. I noticed that when I removed the dog gears,
    they wern't centered in the red collar. How critical is that and could
    that have anything to do with the slipping.
    
    Steve

Steve,
  An elongated hole is signs of wearing, the hole
should be perfectly round and only slightly larger
than the head of the allen screw.

Kevin  

re: 60
Steve,
 The holes are not exactly in the center of the collar, I
think thats the way there're designed.

Kevin

        Ran the ol' blower again this morning.  It had been a while.

    2 questions;

    It ran well, but when I shut if off it backfired.  I'm not too
    concerned as it gave me no problems while running.  Just curious
    as to what could cause this?  My method of shutting off the unit
    is to release the safety handle while having the auger engaged.
    This causes it to cut-out.  Reason I do this is that the on/off
    key does not work.  

    Other question, and I know this is real vague.  There is a
    clattering/clanging noise which comes and goes while the auger is
    engaged.  Sounds like some metal object is getting caught up in
    something.  I think the noise is coming from behind the auger under
    the housing where all the belts and stuff is located.  Can anyone
    think of anything that I should look for in this area?  It is a very
    "un-healthy" noise mechanically wise!

    Thanks, Mark

    
    The backfiring is probably over-rich mixture.  My guess is that
    the safety shut-off stops the ignition.  Turn the carb needle
    in a little.
    
    There should be a removable cover for the belts and clutch area.
    Maybe a couple of wing-headed screws or bolts.  Funny noises are
    generally warnings.  Eyeball it with everything shut off.  Work
    the clutch lever and auger engage lever and watch what happens.
    Sometimes lube is needed, and water and ice in this area will
    prevent proper operation and full engagement of the workings.
    
    Best of luck.

    
    > something.  I think the noise is coming from behind the auger under
    > the housing where all the belts and stuff is located.  Can anyone
    
    Could be a worn belt.  Mine had a similar noise which was cured
    by a new belt.
    

    Anyone know about electric starters on snowblowers.  Mine stopped
    working this morning.  I made sure that the outlet and the a.c. cord
    are functional.  I plug the cord into the little black box amd push
    the button and nothing happens.  I assume that there is a step down
    transformer and regulator in the box.  Anyone know what voltage I 
    should see at the starter?  Are there any fuses anywhere?  I'm planning
    on pulling it apart tonight - anybody else have this problem and know
    some obvious things to check for?  It's a 5 hp toro.
    
    Yeah I can pull start it but it takes about 20 pulls to get it fired up
    the first time - once warmed up it starts with one pull.
    
    Thanks,
    Dave

    
    
      The starter is probably frozen. Heat it up with a hair dryer.
     If the unit requires more than a couple off pulls, get an electronic
     ignition for it. They only cost about ten bucks and they create a
     much better spark. I installed one years ago, and have never used my
     electric starter since. I have my grandfathers 32yr old Simplicity.
    
      Good Luck
    
     BAL

    Thanks for the advice on the clanging noise.
    
    Will hopefully get to check it out this weekend and I will report
    any findings!
    
    I have yet to use my electric starter.  Took about 4 pulls this past
    storm to get it started and I have still yet to install a new plug.
    
    Good thing cause there is no electricity at the shed where the unit
    is kept.  Maybe this summer I'll run an underground line to the shed.
    
    Cheers, Mark

    Found the clanging/metal noise...
    
    Under the housing between the engine and auger are 2 belts.  The first
    belt closest to the engine turns all the time, the next belt only turns
    when the auger is engaged.  It is activated by a metal roller about
    1 3/4" in diameter.  This roller sits on a metal bracket.  The roller
    is pushed on the belt when the auger is activated.  The roller is a
    little loose and occassionally whines and sometimes spins against the
    bracked that holds it in place.  This is where all the awful noise
    is coming from.
    
    I was thinking of trying to pack some wheelbearing grease between the
    roller and the bracket, but there is nothing there to really keep the
    grease in place.
    
    Maybe the roller has a bearing in it and it needs to be replaced.
    
    Anyone been there?  Thanks, Mark

    Greetings,

    I tried to tune up my Toro last weekend but ran into a problem. I've
    read all (I think) of the relevent snow blower entries but didn't
    see a solution to my particular problem. Which is: the engine surges.

    I followed the tune up instructions in the manual: preset the power
    adjustment screw and idle mixture screw; start the engine; make
    final adjustments by first turning the power adjustment screw (with
    throttle wide open) until the engine smooths out. I can't get the
    the engine to stop surging no matter how far, or in which direction,
    I turn the power adjustment screw. With the engine running, I can
    see the governor linkage opening and closing the throttle plate.

    So far, I have:

	- ensured that there's no blockage in the fuel line

	- sprayed carb cleaner into and onto the carb

	- checked the newly installed plug

	- rapped the carb bowl in case the float was stuck

	- removed the power adjustment screw

    The plug appears to be fouled by too rich a mixture. Would this cause
    surging?

    The tip of the power adjustment screw is blunt. Should it come to a
    sharp point? It doesn't appear mushroomed (like I overtightened it),
    and it's coated with a black, shiny deposit, which doesn't come off
    with carb cleaner.

    The machine is 8 years old. I *do* drain the gas tank and run the
    card dry when I store the blower each Spring.

    Do I need a carb rebuild kit?

    Thanks for your help,

	steve

    I would do the carb rebuild kit, or just give the carb a good cleaning.  
    I've had the same problem many times after storing the snowblower for the 
    winter, so now I automatically pull off the carburator and soak it/shake 
    it around in kerosine to clean it all out.  Also be sure all jets are 
    totally clear (piano wire works great).  I don't always replace all the
    gaskets and valve pins if they look good, but it's a good idea to have
    the kit available in case you destroy something.  After doing this any
    surging, stalling, or rough running goes away (you have to be sure to
    adjust both high and low speed correctly too).
    
    Oh, and don't forget to make sure the float is set properly so the carb
    won't flood, and that it doesn't have a leak in it (making it not float
    properly). 
    
    Good luck!
    

    This morning I went to fire up the snowblower and when I gave the cord
    a pull it ran out without any resistence.  The spring worked ok, but I
    could tell the engine was not being engaged.  I pulled the pully and
    spring assembley off and looked to see how it engages the engine.  It
    appears there are two starter dogs that pop out from centrifical force
    that engage detents on the crankshaft.  When I first tried to pull them
    out they would not move.  I set them on a radiator and later the they
    came out.  Before I put this back together I was just wondering if
    anyone else had this problem.  I think it was just ice that froze the
    dogs into the starter pulley assembly.  Anyone else have any ideas?
    
     Thanks
    
    brian

The manual that came with my new engine suggests that prior to stopping the
engine, the cord is pulled a few times (it says 'ignore the noise you will
hear') to try to prevent such a problem.

Oh, and yes I have run into this problem before - usually a few good (gentle
though!) hits on the coil assembly would free things up so I would not have to
dismantle it.

When you put it back on, make sure the bolts are on tight.  I've lost a few of
those bolts over the years because of not putting them on snug enough.

bjm

    Also, if you have a heat gun or hair dryer, you can use them to get the
    mechanism thawed out without taking the assembly off the machine.  But
    the best thing is to pull it a few times before you put it away to make
    sure you knock as much of the snow and ice off as possible.
    
    Ken

Yup, had that exact problem this morning... and wound up
taking the pull-cord housing off just as you did too.

Mine has one spring-loaded "dog", also using centrifical
force to cause it to engage a flywheel or crankshaft.

I noticed it didn't seem to be very springy... so I just
sprayed some silicone lubricant, put it back together,
and now it works fine. I don't think I've ever lubed it
before, so clearly it was lacking.

Yup.  Spend a few hours out in the light snow and the starter mechanism 
gets wet.  Park the machine and the mechanism freezes. Come out a day or so 
later and it doesn't work.

Hot water will fix the problem a lot faster than a heat gun, BTW.

    	Reading all of this really makes me appreciate the fact that I'm
    able to store my machine indoors ;-)
    
    	Ray

>        Reading all of this really makes me appreciate the fact that I'm
>    able to store my machine indoors ;-)

Sometimes doesn't matter.  I've had the problem too.  Even though I
religiously clean the snow off the machine before putting it in the
garage.  The problem is the snow melts, runs into the pull chord area
and then freezes.  Unless your storage area is heated, you can still 
have the problem.

I had forgotten the note in my owners manual about pulling the chord
before shutting down.  Thanks for reminding me!!

						Mark

    Last night after drying out the pully assembly on my radiator I put it
    back together and yup that was all it was, frozen.  For such a simple
    machine these snowblowers can be a pain in the you know what.  But, in
    this snowfall, I would hate to be without it.  Time to move to florida.
    
    Brian

    For future reference, someday I will need to remove the front bearing
    on the gearbox of the snowblower.  This is the only way I will get the
    auger assembly and gearbox out of the unit.  The front bearing is
    attached to the driveshaft in the gearbox.  There is an access cover in
    the front that can be screwed off.  The bearing only has about 1/4" of
    freespace around it inside the gearbox. 
    
    My question is...  I suppose you have to use a bearing remover.  There
    is a set for sale in the Harbor Freight catalog for $13.99.  It is
    called a bushing/bearing driver set for removing and inserting bushings
    and bearings.  What I do not understand is how do you use this to
    remove a bearing as in the above snowblower gearbox?  Thanks, Mark

    re:89
    
    	Yes, my storage area is indirectly heated and never drops below
    freezing (my basement). It seems that being able to do this eliminates
    a whole host of these freezing related problems. Course, these
    mechanical beasties can get ya one way or the other ;-)
    
    	Ray

    >        Reading all of this really makes me appreciate the fact that
    >	     I'm able to store my machine indoors ;-)
    
    Reading all of these replys make be appreciate the fact that I don't
    have to use a snow blower at all *8).....  SF Bay Area Resident by
    choice...  *8p
    
    I must say though, when it did snow in my FRONT YARD  this year, I was
    very happy that it didn't stay very long (about an hour).  It did give
    my kids a chance to play in the snow and through snow balls at Daddy...
    

    Well, we in New England don't need to bolt our refrigerators to the
    wall, so lets call it even.
    
    					Steve

Lots of discussion in here about dirty tanks -- what's the best way to clean
them?  I picked up an old used Ariens with an 8HP B&S on it.  The gas tank
(about the size and shape of a shoebox) is pretty rusty inside.  I don't see a
screen when peering inside with a flashlight, and there isn't a fuel filter
in the gas line.  You can guess how its running.  I cleaned out rust out of the
gas line where it entered the carb, which stopped the carb from leaking gas.

It does have a glass bowl under the gas tank.

Also, how do I get a fuel filter into the line.  I don't suppose it's as easy as
picking up some kind of a kit...

								-- Chuck Newman

> Also, how do I get a fuel filter into the line.  I don't suppose it's as easy as
> picking up some kind of a kit...

    You should be able to splice a small generic in-line fuel filter
    into the fuel line, assuming the you have access to a few inches
    of the fuel line. 

    As for the rusty tank... It sounds like replacment might be the
    best long term solution as it will probably continue to add rust
    to the fuel and clog your fuel filter, and then it will eventually
    rust through and leak.

    Charly

    	You could remove it, shake it up and pour it out. Add more gas and
    repeat if nessecary. Another thought is to look for a plastic replacement 
    tank, then you'll never have that problem again.
    
    	As far as the filter, if it has a rubber hose running from the tank
    to the carb, you could use a small plastic in-line filter to match the
    size of the fuel line. Some even come with tapered ends to fit a
    variety of fuel line sizes.
    
    	Ray

It's a metal fuel line.  Looks kind of like automotive brake line, but the
ends are different:  it ballons out near the end like a snake that just ate,
rather than flared ends.

When I went for a rebuild kit the guy said (from looking at the fiche with the
engine's serial number) that the carb hadn't changed since 1979.

As a result, I'm not too optimistic about finding a new replacement tank.  May
have to just rig something up.

I'll probably take the carb and fuel line to Northborough Power and see if they
can help.

								-- Chuck Newman

    The tank scale is a common problem for antique tractor folks.
    Fortunately it's relatively easy to clean up. Take the tank off, empty
    the fuel, fill with water and stones, nails, chain, or whatever you
    like, and shake her up! Repeat until most of the gook is out. Sometimes
    the glop is not rust but fuel residue. A good mix of amonia gets rid
    of that pretty fast. For more caked on tanks, use a lye based mix. (I
    doubt you need that!) You may find that you have some pin holes in the
    tank when your done. There are some tank sealers on the market which
    you can slosh the tank with afterwards. Check your local napa or other
    parts stores. I doubt you'll need that though. 
    
    

To further re .-1, you can seal it up fairly easily if a replacement tank
is not easy to find.  Once you've cleaned out the large pieces of sludge and
rust with the rocks, nuts and bolts, get the tank sealer that Bill Hirsch in
NJ sells.  They advertize in Hemmings.  This is a light grey goop that you pour
in, slosh around and let dry for 24-48 hours.

There are similar sealing kits sold in motorcycle shops, but they include an
acid etch and rinsing solution.  These kits require you get the tank down to
bare metal for the sealer to work.  This works well for new tanks, but not
for rusty ones.

The stuff from Hirsch works over rust, as long as the large flakes are out.
I've sealed 3 tanks with this sealer and it works great.

Dave

I'll see if I still have my old metal tank around - no rust in there and I
don't need it any more.

bjm

Live in Northbridge, MA (south of Worcester), work in Marlborough, MA

    Look for a British Auto Company or store in your area.  The one in 
    Manchester has good tank sealing compound for $12 a quart.  Beats 
    the price you pay in MC shop.