Conference napalm::musclecars

A lot :-).

I assume you're talking about the intake charge?

If so, I believe that picking up your basic engineering book at the library will
tell you what 6 psi above some ambient will get you in terms of temperature
rise, but the Roots-type blower has a reputation for pushing a few more degrees
into the equation, because of internal friction, and the way the basic design
works.

I'd bet that 160 degrees in the manifold won't be too far off, or 80-90 degrees
above ambient, at 6 psi.

Of course, the other thing about Roots blowers is that they make boost (and
therefore, torque) starting from very low RPM, so, in spite of certain
inefficiencies compared to other blower designs, they flat *work*, from a
driver's perspective.

Bruce

Thanks for the info Bruce.  I was asking the question both from an intake charge
standpoint and an engine cooling standpoint.  If this blower were to go into use
on, say, my Vega, engine cooling would be a big factor!

Thanks,
Mark

    Mark,
    Are you going to lower the compression on the engine? On my 302 I 
    am using 8:7 and have 13% overdrive to get about 7 lbs. of boost.
    This was recommended to me by a fellow who builds engines down
    on the Cape. My engine is stock except for the cam, which is an
    ole Crane Fireball. I'm sure the cast postons won't last too long
    but it will be fun while it lasts......
    
    TMW
    
    I know, I should finish the T.....right Bruce?......

No, I was planning on running my 10.5:1 compression with 6 psi of boost.  I
figure that at this altitude, cylinder pressure won't be a biggie.  I run the
engine exclusively on race gas, have forged pistons, ARP rod bolts, forged 
steel crank, and stainless valves.

If I can't cool it though, it's all a moot point.  :-(

I'd really like to do this as it's easy horsepower!

>     I know, I should finish the T.....right Bruce?......

Lemme use a line that I get from my bride every so often :-).

"It doesn't matter to me what you finish, just finish SOMETHING."  :-)

It would be great to see you out there, Jimmy.


Bruce

    Re Bruce,
    Well let's see..........We finished the Elva...twice, We finished
    the Duryea... We finished the 34 Chevy pro-street, We finished
    the 79 Trans-am,  We finished the 320i Bmw.... We finished the 
    55 Chevy Wagon 4x4 Puller..... plus numerous other projects that
    have belonged to others............   :-)
    
    TMW
    
    btw the experimental ultra-lite plane should be done by July...

    
    Jim,
    
    Did you get the mail I sent?  Let me know when you get it.
    Tom

I'll put the conclusion first:

****
Maybe I'm dreaming, but why not have a computer program that allows you to 
experiment with engine mods and see the resulting effect on the cooling system?
****


On a general question of engine cooling - Obviously, an engine gets hot because
fuel is burning.  All other things being equal (which they aren't), if two 
vehicles each got 12 miles per gallon, they'd need the same ability to dissipate
heat.   This is probably why some people can put a Chevy 350 in a Toyota Land
Cruiser, and use the stock Toyota "6 cylinder" radiator.  This isn't always
true due to block and cooling system designs, and how much heat radiates off
the block.  P.S. - does anyone know what percent of engine heat is generally
radiated off a V-8 block?

Relative to Mark's question, the addition of a supercharger we cause the engine
to burn more fuel, which could be measured in a lbs/hour method.  It also adds
heat from the pressure as well as the friction generated by the blower.

Hypothetically, couldn't you calculate the added burden on the cooling system
mathematically with these variables?  Couldn't a supercharger manufacturer say
that adding their supercharger will require 35% more cooling capacity?  (Or
do they already do this?)

Why I'm posing this question is that it seems like on custom-engined vehicles,
everyone just starts building radiators and adding cores to them until they're
'big enough'.  There _are_ a lot of variables, but I'd think you could work
equations or run things through a computer program to come up with rough
figures.  You could even enter the characteristics of a particular engine - 
such as a 400 siamesed Chevy block, which might run xx% hotter than a 350.



Thoughts?


steve

    Jim, I think that Bruce meant that you should finish something of
    YOURS! ;-) ;-) ;-)
    
    Oh yeah, add the ThunderTruck(tm) to the list of rigs that have rolled
    out of the Fantasy Factory in a MUCH different configuration than when
    they rolled in. :-)
    
    Harry
    

    re Harry...............Oh, something of mine...yeah Right!
    
    re Tom...I recieved the mail Fri. along with Steve's...neat, but they
    get too much money for some of those cars. 
    
    TMW

I hate to add a note back on the subject but, I will anyhow.  :-)  Just incase
anyone ever wants to know this type of info, I called the B&M tech line and was
told that a blower can raise engine running temps by 10-15 degrees.  

We'll, see what reality proves out to be.  I picked up the blower on Saturday. 
At only $650 for a complete, low mileage, polished blower setup, it's just too
cheap not to give it a try.  All that I need is a set of intake gaskets and a
new upper pulley for the blower.  The one that is on there now will provide
avout 8-9# of boost which is a little much for my engine with it's 10.5:1
compression.

Mark

     When you add a blower it is a real real good idea to change the cam..
    You might want to call the B & M tech line and ask them directly..  
    Without optimising the bennifit of the boost by a cam change you will
    not get anywhere near the performance increase that is possible..In
    fact if your cam is to far off you could cause some interesting head
    damage..If you need some specifics contact me off line..
    
    Jim

    
    
    		I have an '80 Corvette which I just took off the
    		the road and I going to pull the motor and was 
                considering installing a blower on it.  The last 
                reply answers one of my questions, but is what other 
                things should I do while it's apart?  I am also 
                concerned that I may have a room constriction.  How 
                much room is needed to accomidate it?  Corvettes tend
    		to generate a lot of heat anyway, will this make 
    		it much worse?
    
                Suggestions and Comments welcome!
    
    	        Thanks!
    
                

    HI,  
    	I am going to buy a Supercharger for my 94 Mustang GT but the only
    thing is I want to buy the one that will go best with my engine(302).
        I want on that will give me 100+ horses.  Does anyone have any
    suggestion on which is the best?

    This is my opinion....
    
    I wouldn't rush off and supercharge my car.
    
    I'd talk to some of the folks in here who HAVE supercharged and find
    out why they went that route.
    
    If you want 100 horsepower... I'd put an NOS kit on it.
    If you want massive power improvements, then supercharge the thing.
    
    Will you drive this every day?  Then NOS.
    Will you race this thing mainly?  Then supercharge it.
    Do you have a budget?  Then NOS.  Do you have unlimited funds?  Then
    supercharge.
    
    Do you have another car to use while this one is getting fixed?
    
    It is tough to answer a question such as yours without knowing what the
    goal is.  If you want to spend a bunch of $$$$, see that other note
    I put in about that fellow who spent $4000 to cut one second off his
    ET.  IMO: That's a waste.
    
    We need to be realistic.
    
    MadMike

    
    re: .14 -supercharge?-
    
    Well, the jury is still out on my installation of a 671 on the '57...
    
    It's a "LOT" of fun, and makes a big difference ....but I'm not sure
    it's the best thing for "just street" or "just racing".
    
    Mike is right on with the questions you need to ask yourself.
    
    I did mine for a number of reasons in no particular order:
     - it's different - for sure :^)
     - looks/profile,
     - power,
     - street driving and weekend racing
    
    NOS would have been easier, less costly, but it does not produce the
    same profile or challenges.   I might keep it on, and I might not....
    I've only  had it on the road for about a month.
                                                           
    -rb
    
    

    See, there's Rich's opinion.  I'd ask MikeC who supercharged his
    stang as well...
    
    I want a BLOWER sticking out of my hood.  I want that WHINE, and the
    ability to go power crazy (IN ADDITION TO MAKING SURE EVERYTHING ELSE
    CAN HANDLE THE INSTALLATION).  There's a dang blower... weiand.  $2500
    for the blower only.  Plan on also dealing with heat, sheet metal and
    suspension problems.
    
    This isn't what you want, nor what you're asking.
    
    B&M makes a blower for the stang.  These are IMO  a novelty.  They'll
    run you $1200+.  Don't show up unless you pop the hood (probably what
    you want) and give you a bit more power.  That's expensive power.
    THAT's why I stess NOS.  It's on/off.  Installed or removed.  $350 -
    $500.  No other mods (crank/pistons/rods/cooling
    system/heads/manifolds......
    
    It'll give you your 100+ horsepower.   Actually, 100.  Any higher and
    I'd take the engine apart to put a 4340 steel crank, rods, forged
    pistons....  whoops, there goes your budget and that's not what you're
    asking for either.
    
    MadMike

    Let me clarify .17.
    
    I am not banging on blowers.  I am dealing with 100+ horsepower, from
    whatever the mod.  If you want more than 100 horses, from EITHER NOS
    or a blower, you will probably need to completely re-do your engine.
    i.e. this deal is no longer a "bolt on" thing.  And it'll get expensive
    in a hurry.
    
    There is why I say NOS.  Cheap bolt on.
    A B&M/paxton/vortech/???? supercharger will be expensive and the power
    realization will probably be disappointing.
    
    NOW, if you wanted TORQUE for your truck to tow about 25,000 pounds of
    stuff... I'd be touting the supercharger all over the place.
    
    MadMike
    

    I understand what you are saying and I appreciate all the info and
    trying to save me money.  I want the power to be there all the time,
    and to me a supercharger is what I want and will spend the money on.
       My Mustang is my little toy and I plan on having it for awhile so I
    think(on occasion) I will do a supercharger and then later on add more
    performance parts to it.  I do have another car to drive while the
    mustang is under the knife.  I just like superchargers better I don't
    why but I do.  NOS might be better for the buck but I want instant
    power.  Today everything is expensive, so I figured that since I have
    no real life to speak of because  I work weekend nights in fabsix in
    hudson, MA I figured I would spend my time and money on the Stang.
      Keep the advice rolling I do appreciate it.
    
    Roger
    PS  do they make nitrous for my Honda XR400?? that would be cool for
    the places I ride.  I would have one screamin dirtbike until I crash
    it.

    Roger,
    
    If I were in your position, I'd go for the Powerdyne supercharger
    that Ford motorsport sells; Part number M-6066-B50. That is the
    number for the 6 psi supercharger kit. You could get a 9 psi kit,
    but I strongly beleive you should avoid that route unless you do
    all your own work on your car. A six psi kit will give you a 
    very significant boost in power (say 60-80hp), be truly street legal,
    and your car will survive without constant maintenance. A 9 psi kit
    *will* require semi-regular attention to the engine and drivetrain to
    fix, improve, and just plain massage to keep alive.
    
    The recommendation for the Powerdyne/Motorsport kit is because it is 
    quieter then all others, cooler running then all others, and the
    installation is less intrusive then Vortech, Procharger, B&M, etc.
    The Powerdyne blower uses a kevlar drive belt and ceramic bearings
    that require no lubrication. Most popular kits require tapping into
    the oiling system to lubricate the blower, then slamming a big hole
    into your oil pan for the oil return. I don't recommend this route 
    to anyone who doesn't do a lot of work on cars.
    
    I have a Procharger 14psi kit with a 3" inlet 3-core intercooler. 
    My car runs high 10's at about 125 mph. This level of performance
    required extensive engine/fuel/ignition/chassis modifications to 
    survive; even with meticulous maintenance. I generate about 10 psi
    boost in the manifold.
    
    Eric
    

    HI,
    	I just bought a 9lb powerdyne supercharger, I am having Ron
    Gregoire do my work for me, I don't know if anyone has heard of him but
    he is a pro-stock drag racer with many years of experience with engines
    and he called Fortes and fortes recomended a 6lb powerdyne but he said a
    9lb will work good but wont last as long.  I got a special package with
    a 9lb supercharger with clutch and computer chip.  It goes in the shop
    May 26 to be installled.  I should get at least 125 from this package!
    I read on the web that the 9lb kit needs Mass air induction system, is
    this true?

    A 1994 Mustang *has* a mass air induction system.

    	Thanks,  when I read the article I wasn't sure if they meant I
    needed a specific Mass air induction system.  Now the only thing that I
    have to worry about is keeping the tires on the rims, and the back from
    trying to catch the front.
    
    Thanks, Roger