| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 89.1 | Close to stock is best, IMO | ESKIMO::MANUELE | | Tue May 12 1992 23:03 | 31 |
| Re-1
From what I see, it really depends what type of show you are
attending. In some shows, usually "Custom" car shows, its better to
chrome plate every bracket, nut, bolt, etc, cover the interior in
diamond-tucked naugahyde (sp), stick a fake blower through the hood,
etc etc. I prefer to keep the car fairly close to stock, with some
changes to suit me, not some crowd at a show. Musclecar Review magazine
has been talking about this topic for a few years now, the call it
"restifing". This usually means keeping the car mostly stock appearing,
but addind improvements to bring it up in performance. These include
bigger sway bars, better brakes, upgraded ignition systems, etc. They
also like to see a detailed engine compartment, but not with hose
covers, Mr Gasket scoops, Micky Thomson valve covers, etc, If you like
the looks of this, put it on, its your car, I am planning on detailing
my Torino's engine bay, and will put on a chrome air cleaner in place
of the stock HUGE air cleaner housing, but most of the rest will look
fairly stock. I prefer this look, others do not. If you are going to
add chrome, try to find the Ford Motorsports chrome kit for your year
Mustang, it was a factory option then, so it can still be stock. If I
can find a set of chrome or aluminum factory valve covers, I would grab
them in a minute.
As far as beating a Mach 1 in a car show, I find the flashiest car
usually has a big advantage, especially at the custom shows. I was at a
show in Boston a few weeks past, and there was a 71 Mach 1 with the
most detailed stock engine bay I have ever seen, every decal, part and
even assy. line paint marks were there. The car won its class over
several chrome covered, anodized aluminum bedecked mega-buck customs,
so if the right people are your judge, you can still win with stock.
just my rambling .02 worth, the caffiene has not kicked in yet :^)
John M.
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| 89.2 | Get the cobra dress up kit | DEMING::HAWKE | | Wed May 13 1992 07:09 | 23 |
| Hi Bob,
IMHO I like stock too but you can definetly dress it up
a bit and have it "stock looking". If I remember right you've
got a 302 in there. All the rags advertise the cobra dress up
kit including valve covers, and the large oval air cleaner.
I like this setup and think that while it may not have come from
the factory on your car it could have been a dealer item hence it
appears to be stock but certainly looks better than the original
painted items. The fastbacks are always a bit more popular than
the coupes and you're going to have to accept that. Its your car
and like John said set it up any way *you* like. When I had my Stang
I put on chrome valve covers and replaced the stock air cleaner with
a drop base Moroso unit. I used this air cleaner setup because I put
a one inch spacer under the carb, a stub stack on top of the carb,
and a four inch air cleaner element, while this didn't look stock
it didn't run stock either :-), and that was important to me. I kept
all the original items in case I ever wanted to return it to its
original state.
Good luck
Dean
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| 89.3 | | IAMOK::FISHER | | Wed May 13 1992 09:14 | 31 |
|
John hit the nail on the head. In a popular judging show, the
awards will (90% of the time) go to the most popular makes and models.
So, if you are stacking your coupe against an equally nice Chevelle
or Camaro, expect to lose. Most people just don't appreciate the
unique!
However, you can always enter the car in a Mustang or Ford only show
where people (and voters) are already in your camp. The downside
of single marque shows is;
1. They are boring (My wife and I attended the 1991 Cougar Nationals
and decided as much as we like Cougars, it is'nt much fun to see
*only* Cougars.
2. The judging gets *REALLY* picky, as the judges are usually experts
on the vehicles and pick your car apart.
About the dress up, Dean is also right. The Musclecar mania of the
1980's got us all thinking our cars were like Picasso paintings.
Hogwash. If you change it, just keep the old pieces. That way you can
return it to stock any ole time you want.
But, please go gently on your stang. There are lots of really tasteful
dress up parts for Fords, and my personal taste DETESTS those over
chromed, pinstriped show cars!.....
Just my opinion.
Tom
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| 89.4 | Hum ? | ESKIMO::LAMOTHE | N.E. Summer National Staff Member | Wed May 13 1992 10:55 | 46 |
|
Those are very good points !!! 8^)
I am just stuck between Stock or not, or Semi-Stock. So far what I
have done is my Engine, and Engine compartment are Stock. What I have
done in the last 2 weekends is
1. Removed front fender and re-aligned it to match the other side
Perfectly.
2. Removed the Rear End, drive shaft, and leaf Springs.
3. sanded and primed all parts : Leaf Springs, Drums, Rear End
Drive Shaft.
4. Removed my Dash Pad, seats, interior door panels, etc...
A. painted all parts with Vynyl Die to make parts look "New".
5. painted drive shaft, rear end, drums the correct Factory colors,
and re-installed.
6. Polished my Brake lines, and fuel Lines from Front to Back of the
car.
7. painted the Entire under carriage the correct Black.
8. Painted the Front Coil Springs to appear "Metalish" ( Used
Eastwood's Cast Blast 5000 )
So, with All the undercarriage detailing, Will I ruin it with adding
chrome to the Engine ?
Perhaps I should try using Mirrors at the Shows to dispay my
under carraige....Perhaps this may Help.
Darn...Seems like I worked hard to get the Car to Factory, and now I
want to do a 360 degree turn around ?!@#$%^&&
/Bob
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| 89.5 | find the correct factory frame stencils | MVDS02::READIO | A Smith & Wesson beats four aces, Tow trucks beat Chapman Locks | Wed May 13 1992 11:40 | 38 |
|
> So, with All the undercarriage detailing, Will I ruin it with addin
> chrome to the Engine ?
Yes!
> Perhaps I should try using Mirrors at the Shows to dispay my
> under carraige....Perhaps this may Help.
If you're THIS serious about it, buy an enclosed trailer.
> Darn...Seems like I worked hard to get the Car to Factory, and now I
> want to do a 360 degree turn around ?!@#$%^&&
If you want to impress the type of folks who go to Moscoffian's cruise
nights, load it up with chrome, fake stainless hoses, leaky headers, tires
that are too wide for the rims they're mounted on, chrome valve stems with
dice valve caps, shag carpet on the package tray, girly air fresheners,
chrome EVERYTHING, and put a huge teddybear on the front seat. that ought
to cover everyone's idea of what a show quality car should have.
On the other hand, if you want to win serious trophies (from knowledgeable
judges) use Motocraft or FoMoCo parts EVERYWHERE and make the car look
showroom fresh and invest in an enclosed trailer because if you don't, that
Mach-1 will beat you every time because it's a Mach-1 and your car is dusty
and has an occasional oil seepage around the sump or intake manifold
because you had the audacity to actually DRIVE the car.
BTW, 369 degrees puts you right back where you started. I think you meant
180 degrees.
Personally, I'd rather try and impress someone who knew what he was looking
at instead of someone who walked in through the front gate with her older
brother and her gum-chewing mother or some pimply faced kid with a bondo
bucket Chevelle who has a judging form because he's a "participant".
skip
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| 89.6 | Stencils..HUH ? | ESKIMO::LAMOTHE | N.E. Summer National Staff Member | Wed May 13 1992 13:41 | 12 |
|
Thanks Skip !!
What are Factory Frame Stencils ???
have you been to the Ramada ? I was going there Every Sat.
night...Must have seen me and my Car there !
/Bob
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| 89.7 | | CFSCTC::SANCLEMENTE | A Humble HEMI owner | Wed May 13 1992 13:45 | 53 |
|
> Hogwash. If you change it, just keep the old pieces. That way you can
> return it to stock any ole time you want.
Unless you sell the parts...:-)
As for shows, I learned some valuable lessons back in my youth :-).
I'm sure everyone has seen different versions of this...
One year, at the SAC show - around 1980, which is broken up by year,
ie 55-60, and then popular vote, at least back then. There was a 59 RR
Silver Wraith Conv, one of five built and one of two left hand
drives. Just out of the restoration shop where the guy had spent 13K
(thats 1980 dollars) on the paint (incredible job) and around
10K on the interior (eeeek! good thing muscle cars don't have leather).
The car looked beautiful. Sitting next to it was a 63 Buick Conv. The
two things I remember about the Buick was that it was white and the door
rubber on the passenger side was hanging out. Now, you could buy 30 of
those Buicks for what that Rolls was worth. The entire day there was
hundreds of people milling around the Rolls. At the end of the day
when they gave out the trophies, the buick got first the RR second.
Now...
1.The trophies were handed out according to popular vote.
2. You had to have a car in the show to vote.
3. Allot of the people at the show belonged to the Wachusett old car
club.
4. The guy with the Buick was treasuer or some such thing of the club.
5. People vote for there friends.
6. Such is life.
Now, I know your all thinking the guy sent his Rolls to the crusher
and went out and bought a Buick but naaaaaa he wasn't bummed. He kind
of chuckled and took his second place SAC trophy home and put with 2
zillion other trophies he probably had at home.
I guess what I'm trying to say is this: If your going to shows with the
idea of always bring home trophies or comming in first, there is no
amount of money that is going to make it a lock. So just go and have
fun.
As for modifying the cars, personally I like them stock. But I can find
ten other guys that like them modified/slightly modified etc. So again,
do what makes you happy. Trying to impress other people is the quickest
way to get bummed out cause there isn't one thing that will impress
everyone all the time.
- A.J.
Oh yeah, the above story is why I always laugh when people put
"trophy winner" in their car ads. In fact, I won't call on an
ad that has that in there, cause to me it means squat.
|
| 89.8 | | CFSCTC::SANCLEMENTE | A Humble HEMI owner | Wed May 13 1992 13:48 | 10 |
| >Personally, I'd rather try and impress someone who knew what he was looking
>at instead of someone who walked in through the front gate with her older
>brother and her gum-chewing mother or some pimply faced kid with a bondo
>bucket Chevelle who has a judging form because he's a "participant".
>skip
I couldn't have said it better.
|
| 89.9 | Resto tips | IAMOK::FISHER | | Thu May 14 1992 08:11 | 52 |
|
Hey AJ, I guess that "Subtle" dig was aimed squarely at ME!!!!
You hot ticket you... 8^)
RE Bob's Stang:
I totally agree with Skip, though it would be a shame to create a
"trailer queen" out of your Mustang. I have been helping Chris Roche
(a member of this conference) with a `67 400 Firebird Restification, and
he has taken the car down to the last nut and bolt. Literally. She's
all together now awaiting paint and the detail is tremendous. However,
we spent many a evening in the garage debating how crazy we should go
with the resto. After all this car will be street driven on special
occasions. I guess he just accepted the fact that some of his work
would be "undone" by street driving but hey, he could always redo it.
So, detail the thing out, have fun, and get to redo it a few years from
now!
Just an FYI:
The differential third member should be red oxide primer
Axle housing should be gloss black
Rear brake backing plates are gloss black
Rear drums were natural finished (I think) but low gloss black looks good
Lower control arms are satin black
Disc brake backing plates were either black or natural
Strut rods were natural
Rotor hubs were natural
Steering box was natural
Coil springs are black
Upper control arms and spring saddles are black
Drag link, inner and outer tie rod ends are natural.
Brake booster is satin black (same as engine compartment)
Hood hinges are phosphated (kind of a dull silver finish)
The engine compartment should be a low gloss black, but if you don't
have access to a compressor and spray gun, try sandblasting or
wire brushing the compartment followed by Rustoleum satin black in a
spray can. Good stuff! Durable, and *EXTREMELY* close to the factory
color. So close in fact the judges at the 91 Cougar nationals
commented on the extremely clean original engine compartment in my
Cougar!
You can use this paint on all suspension components that specify low
gloss black.
Tom
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| 89.10 | Excellent Tips ! | JUNCO::LAMOTHE | N.E. Summer National Staff Member | Thu May 14 1992 09:40 | 16 |
|
Yep,
I didn't use a red oxide Primer, but cam across some Spray bomb paint
at the far called "Classic Resto" paint, and used a FOMOCO Red paint...
it looks mint, will I loose points...Who knows ?
I did alot of work, true a shame that a driver will have to be redone
in a year or too, but Hey....I think it's worth it....
When I tell someone...Look under the car !!! And the guy's face Drops
in amazement !!!
/Bob
|
| 89.11 | | CRISTA::ROCHE | | Thu May 14 1992 10:50 | 14 |
| re .9
It's always nice when you have a friend who is willing to climb under
your car and scrape/wire wheel/brush the entire bottom side for you.
When he climbed out he looked like a coal miner with amount of crud on
him. Thanks Tom.
Tom's right, have fun, detail it as much as you want (it is YOUR car)
and don't worry about having to redo stuff at a later date. I believe
that the only way to enjoy a car is to drive it and with driving comes
the inevitable chips. Hell, living in New England allows for plenty of
detail time.
Chris
|
| 89.12 | More tips | IAMOK::FISHER | | Thu May 14 1992 12:24 | 68 |
|
Bob,
Actually your work should last MUCH longer than 1 or 2 years.
A restored car gets few miles per year, and generally is driven
only in dry, salt and sand free weather. So, aside from a little road
dust that undercarriage should stay clean with occasional touchups.
As far as detailing the engine, you can never go wrong with some
tasteful, stock looking add-ons. Cast valve covers (especially the
Cobra or Powered by Ford) look nice and were an over the counter item
from the Muscle parts program. I would keep and detail the original
air cleaner - making sure the flapper door in the snorkel operates
properly.
Other small but important details are;
CLAMPS - Band style clamps may be practical, but will loose points BIG
TIME! Mustangs unlimited sells a complete OEM style (Tower and wire
clamps) kit for your car. Cost is about $30
CLIPS - Ford uses plastic clips to fasten vacuum line and wiring harness to the
inner fender aprons and core support. Often times they fall
off, break, or discolor. Don't despair - these little things are
abundant in wrecking yards. Look for another late sixties Ford (any
model should do) and pirate the clips from it. Soak em in warm soapy
water for a few minutes and then scrub with a stiff bristle (NOT metal)
brush. Finish off with Armor All.
RADIATOR CAP - Use an OEM pressure cap, not one of those cheezy NAPA
jobs. Correctly route the overflow hose to the recovery container
HARDWARE - Over time, OEM hardware gets replaced by aftermarket nuts
and bolts, often of the wrong grade and surface finish. Look up
hardware dealers in the local yellow pages and bring hardware samples
with you. In the Southern NH area try Jesco on Route 102 in Derry.
In a pinch, Ford can supply the correct hardware, but only as a last
resort - Ford changes an arm and a leg for the small stuff!
RUBBER PARTS - Over time, rubber grommets, boots, etc dry out from heat
and ozone. Try warming them up in hot water and scrubbing lightly with
a brillo pad to remove dirt and the dead layer of old rubber. Finish
with Armor All. If really bad, replace - *ALL* of this stuff is
reproduced at very low cost.
HEADLIGHTS - Your Ford should have Autolite Sealed beams for both Hi
and Low beams. These lights have the Autolite logo embossed on them in
what looks like frosted glass. If yours are missing - no problem!
Scour the local junkyard for these lights. Have the yard test 'em for
you. I have a shelf full at home and didn't pay more than $2 apiece.
WASHER RESERVOIR - Yours may be yellowed in color. Remove it from the
car and fill with a 50/50 bleach/ warm water solution. Let stand an
hour or so, and periodically swish it around vigorously. The results
will impress you. Clean up the black rubber top with warm soapy water
and the non-metallic bristle brush. Armor All to finish.
OTHER - The Starter Solenoid usually gets grungy and loses the yellow
cadmium plating on the mounting bracket. ADAP sells a Motorcraft
replacement that is identical to the original (It's a Ford Service
part)
There should be a small rubber rain gutter bolted to the fendor apron
above the voltage regulator. Clean it up, or if it's missing find one
in the Junkyard.
Hope these tips help. Best of all they are cheap, and really make a
difference in the quality of the restoration.
Tom
|
| 89.13 | Won't be in Worcester July 4th, either | MVDS02::READIO | A Smith & Wesson beats four aces, Tow trucks beat Chapman Locks | Thu May 14 1992 12:58 | 25 |
|
> What are Factory Frame Stencils ???
They're on:
fenderwells
frames
floorpans (under the dealer-applied undercoating)
on the suspension arms
on the leaf springs
on the axle housings
on the firewall
on the valve cover(s)
they were EVERYWHERE if you looked for 'em
Also, don't forget the plastic (vinyl) or paper tags on the wiring
harnesses.
> have you been to the Ramada ? I was going there Every Sat.
> night...Must have seen me and my Car there !
Naw, too many whiners bitching about loosing to a "lesser quality" car.
|
| 89.14 | I'm not a LOSER I'm a CRUISER ! | JUNCO::LAMOTHE | N.E. Summer National Staff Member | Thu May 14 1992 13:51 | 13 |
|
The only things I need for my Engine compartment are :
Clamps, AutoLite Battery ( Most likely MotorCraft...Much Cheaper),
and that Stenciling stuff If they sell it anywhere ?
I knew 2 headlights say "FoMoCo" on them, and the other 2 are GE's.
And my Radiator cap is a Motor Craft...
/Bob
|
| 89.15 | More detail | ESKIMO::MANUELE | | Thu May 14 1992 23:00 | 18 |
| Thanks for all the detailing info, Tom, I just printed it out and will
stick it to the garage wall tomorrow. A few other points are..
-brake master cylinder is cast metal, Eastwood has a spray that will
duplicate this almost perfectly
-Pulleys are 60% gloss black, this is more shiny than Satin Black
(which is 30% gloss) but not gloss black.
-Master cylinder is cad plated, or chrome with the engine dress up
option.
-The underside of some Fords should be red oxide primer, with body
color sprayed over, thicker at the sides and almost none at the
driveshaft tunnel. I checked this out with several Torino owners, and
they confirmed it. This may not apply to Mustangs, and with the factory
undercoating applied the point is moot.
-Fan is 60% gloss black, fan clutch is natural.
-Inside of hood is body color, not black. This is a commen mistake on
non-GM cars apparently, as I have seen it on several Mustangs.
John M.
|
| 89.16 | hood inside | LUDWIG::LAMOTHE | N.E. Summer National Staff Member | Fri May 15 1992 07:34 | 8 |
|
Points will not be lost at a judged show if the Hood inside is
Black...however, anything besides black or body color will Cost point
loss.
later for now
|
| 89.17 | A large ego does not a 100 point car make | MVDS02::READIO | A Smith & Wesson beats four aces, Tow trucks beat Chapman Locks | Fri May 15 1992 13:38 | 12 |
| Points will not be lost at a judged show if the Hood inside is
> Black...however, anything besides black or body color will Cost point
> loss.
Points may not be lost at a local Elks or Rotary type show, but they'll be
definitely taken off if you show up at a Mustang show with the wrong paint
ANYWHERE on a Mustang. The number of points lost will be in proportion
to the obscurity of the part/location in question.
Now, if you show up with a Torino at a Mustang show, who cares what color
it is.
|
| 89.18 | | CFSCTC::SANCLEMENTE | A Humble HEMI owner | Fri May 15 1992 14:34 | 9 |
|
Guys, is there a definitive source for all the paint/color/marking
date stamps stuff for mustangs? What I would really like, but I
know it doesn't exist, is a restoration manual like the ones
they have for corvettes -> Its like 3 volumes and 1K pages.
thanks A.J.
|
| 89.19 | | IAMOK::FISHER | | Mon May 18 1992 08:25 | 15 |
|
AJ,
Greg Donahue has apparently written the most complete book
on this subject. Also, if Chris Roche is willing to find the article
in his ever growing Musclecar Mag Mountain (elevation 50') Musclecar
Review did a very comprehensive article on Mustang Chassis detailing
about 6 months ago. How bout it Chris?.....
Also,
John is correct with his underhood tips - Painting the underside of the
hood black is a VERY common Ford resto error.
Tom
|
| 89.20 | | CFSCTC::SANCLEMENTE | A Humble HEMI owner | Mon May 18 1992 09:12 | 15 |
|
Tom, what is the name of the Donahue book? I have the a bunch of
articles on underside detailing. Actually, now that I think of
it I probably have all the info I need, its just a question of
putting all the articles together.
But it would be nice to have it all in a single reference. I
don't know yet how carried away I'm going to get because I'm
not really interested in showing it in competition. If I thought
I was going to keep the car forever I wouldn't worry about it
at all.
- A.J.
|
| 89.21 | CAR CRAFT article | NUMERO::C_WILLIAMS | Hammer | Fri May 29 1992 10:41 | 65 |
|
From the April 1991 Camaro, er, I mean CAR CRAFT article
entitled "101 Paint Tips":
#57. "Finding the correct shade of semi-flat black for
painting the chassis can be a real chore. Most paint
shops will give you a strange look when you ask for
'semi-flat' black. Here's a formula you can use that's
a perfect match for GM black. Using enamel: 3 quarts
of mixing black and 1 quart of flatening agent. Use
PPG DTR601 quick-dry reducer. Enamal is used on frame
and suspensions pieces since it is more durable than
lacquer and will quickly wipe down for show purposes."
#75. "This is a tip for Ford fans. If you've restored
a Mustang, you probably already know that Ford primered
their rearend carriers. They used a red-oxide primer
that was very distinctive. We recently came across Ditzler's
spray can red-oxide primer and found that it was an exact
match."
#76. "Ditzler's DP-74 red-oxide primer is the key to
authenticity underneath for Ford and Mopar buffs doing
concours restorations. Both Ford and Chrysler used a red-
oxide primer coat on the undercarriages of musclecars built
in selected assembly plants. DP-74 is an exact match,
available only for spray gun use from your local auto body
and paint supplier."
#81. "Do you want the exact semi-flat black for your GM or
Ford firewall? This formula will work. Using Ditzler (PPG)
paints: 2 quarts "Mixing Black" #386 plus 1 quart of
"Universal Flattening Agent," and 1 quart "Mixing Clear"
#310. Use PPG #DDL-16 quick-dry thinner. Don't use a
slow-dry thinner. Stir the paint well; it will look very
thin due to the clear when stirring, but don't worry about
it. The color is a perfect match."
#85. "There's always more than one solution to a problem when
it comes to restoring cars. Another paint that works well
for semi-flat black engine compartments is a two-part
urethane primer that dries with a nice semi-flat appearance.
It's Ditzler's recently introduced DP-90 two-part primer."
#87. "Not everyone has professional spray equipment so here's
an alternative method of painting your engine compartment.
Krylon and VHT both offer a "Semi-Flat" black paint that is
an exact match to the original paint GM and Ford used for
their engine compartments. Both brands work well and have
the advantage that they can be touched up at any time with
perfect results."
[NOTE: This is what I use in my '67 'bird; the VHT]
#88. "If you have a Mustange Mach 1 or Boss 302, Ditzler has
a couple of colors that can help you paint your stripes and
engine compartment. These paints come pre-mixed, making it
easy. For a very flat-black and textured finish like the
hoods on '69 Mach 1's, Ditzler offers DDL 9381 acrylic lacquer.
Engine compartments, rear window louvers, and asorted other
semi-flat black parts can be painted with DDL 9423 acrylic
lacquer."
Hammer.
|
| 89.22 | I found the stuff | ATE017::ENNIS | | Tue Jun 02 1992 08:07 | 23 |
|
Back about six months ago, I put a note in somewhere asking if
anyone knew the best way to clean off Zebart Undercoating that
I have all over the engine compartment of my '67 Mercury Monterey.
This weekend while cleaning a paint brush with paint thinner, I
tried using the paint thinner on the engine compartment fender wells.
After a minute of using this stuff the undercoating started to
break down.
I now have the DIRTY task of doing all that I can.
Last evening I spent a couple of hours cleaning. The undercoating
preserved the original finish perfectly at least in the areas I
was able to do.
This is now giving me the initiative to go further. I'll be
picking up some FORD Blue Engine Enamal and other stuff to do
a bit more. At least I'll be able to open the hood now at the
cruise nites with out the embarrassment.
FYI, David
|