Conference hbahba::cam_sports

    What was that Tommy said about Phoenicians having too much time on
    their hands?

      As long as its only time!

    We Bostonians refer to the curse of the Bambino caused by the sale of
    Ruth to the Yankees after which 75 years and no series.
    
    Now Cubs are celebrating 85 years since '08 Series occassioned by the
    famous Boner.
    
    Is their a Fred Merkle Curse?  This weeks SI recaps "Merkles Boner" or
    do all Cubs fans have that story as part of 7th grade civics.
    
    That of course would be the Tinker,Evers version.
    
    Bill

    
    > Is their a Fred Merkle Curse?  This weeks SI recaps "Merkles Boner" or
    > do all Cubs fans have that story as part of 7th grade civics.
    
    They should.  85 years since the last World Series victory and it was
    gift, beyond Bucknerian comparison.  'Course the Cubbies won legit the
    year before...
    
    glenn
    
    

    re: .5
    
    > Bucknerian compariosn
    
    And people question why Buckner is moving out of New England :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Well the Cubbies have scored a zillion runs, and lost the first two
    to the Mets...  Pitching is the Cub curse.  Hopefully the guy with
    the longest non-win streak, Anthony Young can double ginx the Cub
    curse..
    
    And against the Mets!!!!
    
    Its gonna be another long year...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

       Just wanted to say "good-bye" to one of the best second baseman
    of all time....Ryne Sandburg. He will be missed.
    
                             A Twins Fan
    

    
    Apparently he is getting ripped in Chicago for quitting.  Fans/papers
    aren't too happy.  Good thing he don't live there.
    
    brews

>       -< Ryne Sandberg: Quitter.  'Nuf said, and fergit Cooperstown... >-

Nice to see someone leave the game when they can go out on their own
terms.

Ryne will be in Cooperstown before Snuffy wins another Champeenship....

    

    Maybe he was sick of the Scrubs(tm) incompetency and wants to play for
    a winner.

    Sorry, I cainnot vote a guy in when he abandons his team when their
    down. 
    
    Very few baseball players are done in their early thirties and just
    because he's in a bad slump doesn't mean he's done or even close to it.
    
    My theory is the blonde babe sitting next to him at his press
    conference who looked so teary eyed and who he no_doubt "married up" 
    to was putting the pressure on "Rhino" to give it up cause he was doin' 
    what most ballplayers do on those long road trips.  Rather than suck it 
    up like a mainly ballplayer and mebee spat some tobaccy juice on her
    beautiful living room carpet, Sandberg [gulp] QUIT BASEBALL!  
    
    Unreal.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Is that like Mike Schmidt?  Dale Murphy?

    
    Sandberg has been in a slump for almost two years, now.  Any doubt
    about his manhood should vanish, with the fact that he's retiring to
    Phoenix, in June.  It was 99 friggin degrees IN MY POOL Monday.
    
    brews (an appropriate name for the weather here)

                         
    Wow, I guess that last title that got deleted was just too tasteless
    for even ACChris.  Will the apologies to Michael Jordan, Don Drysdale,
    and myself be next?
    
    glenn
    

Nah, I disagree.

You got out on YOUR terms, when your body tells you to and your mind tells you
it ain't fun any more.

Much as I liked Willie Mays and was happy to get a chance to see him play,
it was clear he hung on too long...  Personally, I much prefer to see a man
leave the game on HIS terms.....


'Saw

If I had $X Million in the bank, I think I'd even walk away from Digital...

>    Phoenix, in June.  It was 99 friggin degrees IN MY POOL Monday.
    
Brews!

You're NOT supposed to PEE In the pool.  Didn't you ever learn that?????

    
    >Brews!You're NOT supposed to PEE In the pool.  Didn't you ever learn
    >that?????
    
    It felt like someone did, but you'd need a big bladder to fill it up. 
    It was hot when I stuck my foot in, but I couldn't believe it when I
    looked at the thermometer.  Of course, that temp was from the top 4-6
    inches of water, and the deeper layers of water were quite a bit cooler. 
    
    Felt like a bathtup, though
    
    brews

    Could someone please post the career statistics for Ernie "Mr. Cub"
    Banks and Ryne "Mr. Chump" Sandberg?
    
    tanks,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Brews turns his pool water red.  Film at 11.

    Hey brews, 
    
    RE: you .9
    
    I'm not sure where you're getting this information.  Almost everything I've
    seen, heard  and read here is praising the guy.  Geez, the Sun-Times
    did a six page layout yesterday and is trying to make this comparable
    to Jordan's retirement.
    
    Even the fans calling have been kind.
    
    
    Spud

    Joe Morgan would be a better comparison to Sandberg than Banks...
    

    
    Re .13
    
>    Very few baseball players are done in their early thirties and just
>    because he's in a bad slump doesn't mean he's done or even close to it.
    
    Couldn't let this go without a comment...
    
    _Most_ baseball players are done by Sandberg's age (34).  And the ones
    who aren't are usually the greatest players.
    
    You know how many hitters older than 34 there are around the league?
    
    Scott Flethcher (35) - bit player, career essentially over now.
    Willie Wilson (38) - released.
    Eddie Murray (37) - a shadow of himself, but still hanging on.
    Skeeter Barner (36) - bit player.
    Alan Trammell (35) - has faded significantly.
    Lou Whitaker (36) - still a fine hitter, but platoons now.
    Tim Wallach (36) - keeps fooling teams into giving him one more 
                       chance; essentially finished about three years back.
    Dave Winfield (42) - great player in his prime; now essentially done.
    Wade Boggs (35) - still a very good hitter; doesn't look likely to
                      come near .352 again soon.
    Rickey Henderson (35) - has slipped badly this season.
    Willie McGee (35) - career now most likely over.
    Gary Redus (37) - bit player; last bit seems to have given out this
                      year.
    
    That's it, at least among players on the 40 man rosters over the
    winter.  Twelve players.  A more interesting list would be the
    players who are 34 or younger and already out of baseball; I've
    got neither the time nor inclanation to figure out that list.
    
    And of those 12, only four (Murray, Trammell, Whitaker, and Henderson)
    seem likely to be around next year.
    
    It's entirely possible that Sandberg is, in fact, through; such a drop
    off, while not the usual course, isn't really that out of the ordinary.
    
    Joe

	No Joe Morgan did not play for the Cubs, but it can be said he was the 
best to play positon #4 in a few quite a few years. Therefore who would be
better when making comparisons. The little guy from Bonham,Texas still holds the
record for most HR per his position with Sandberg finishing fourth. 


  Cadzilla2

    Even without park effects (Riverfront's not a bad hitting park, but
    nothing on the order of Wrigley Field) Joe Morgan's statistics have
    gotta surpase Sandberg's by orders of magnitude.  Morgan had more
    power, could run, and was about as good a second basemen as the game
    has seen.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I didn't know Banks played 2B... have stats comparing Sandberg to
    Fergie Jenkins?
    
    Sandberg had 9 Gold gloves and was #4 all time in homers in 12 years.
    Morgan was #1 by about 60 homers over Sandberg in 18 seasons.

    Well I was going to toast Ryno for slinking out until I read the note
    about the twelve guys in the league older than him.  

    Although, his contract for 7.2M/year (making him the highest per year
    player in the league) starts to kick in next year, I think how much I
    hate my job (the one that is 12 months long for less that a months
    interest for an entire year) and think he might be the dumbest player
    to wear a Cub jersey...

    Then, if I had so much money, that I wouldn't need another dime ever,
    would I do something I hated for even an instant?  (Not bloodly likely)

    Good luck Ryno, and thanks for the foul ball.

    I remember that game three mothers days ago, I was right behind the Cub
    on-deck circle, three rows from the field.  Best seats I ever had at
    the Wrig...  Sandberg struck out the first at bat, walked to the
    dugout.  His next at bat, he hit one out.  After rounding the bases,
    he walked back to the dugout with the same expression on his face!

    He was the ice-man.  He gave me a lot to cheer for over the past years,
    he can duck out any time he wants to!

    Chip_GSH_Bach

    
    Re .29
    
>    Even without park effects (Riverfront's not a bad hitting park, but
>    nothing on the order of Wrigley Field)
    
    Riverfront is a _great_ park for home runs, actually.  But Sandberg
    certainly did, over the course of his career, have a significantly
    better home park to hit in.
    
>    Joe Morgan's statistics have gotta surpase Sandberg's by orders of
>    magnitude.
    
    Yeah, sure.  Didn't Morgan have 2500 career home runs?  B^)
    
>    Morgan had more power, could run, and was about as good a second
>    basemen as the game has seen.
    
    Of course, Sandberg could run a bit too, and was an excellent
    defensive second basemen (whether you use the traditional
    defensive measures or defensive average).
    
    I think I'd probably rate Morgan above Sandberg, but it's not a
    terribly wide gap.  Both had HOF careers.
    
    Joe

    I'd take Morgan over Sandberg, without question, although I do think
    both were somewhat overrated defensively.  Neither had tremendous 
    range or great pivot skills, only the reliable hands and solid
    knowledge of positioning that comes with experience.  But all this is 
    pretty much beside the point.  It's pretty evident that Sandberg
    had lost his power, which was the most important part of his game.  If
    the goal is winning, and the Cubs stink and will continue to stink
    indefinitely, is Ryne Sandberg really obligated to hang around as only
    an average, replaceable ballplayer (taking into account the power
    drop-off) just to satisfy some cynical gate attendance needs of his
    employer?  I say no.  
    
    Even if perhaps he should have finished out this season, I consider 
    ACChris' labeling of Sandberg as a "quitter" who shouldn't be allowed
    in the Hall as just another one a his pathological cries for attention
    in between Dean Smith disappointments...
    
    glenn
     

    Sandberg won an MVP... 

    1985 I think...

    Sandberg probably won MVP in 1984 when the Cubs won the division.
    McGee won it in 1985.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    >>           <<< Note 109.37 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
    >>   -< Morgan won *2* MVP's. (And I'd rate him about twice as good) >-
    
    I think the above statement qualifies as a bonafide "HALopropism".
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Re .34
    
>    Neither had tremendous range or great pivot skills, only the reliable
>    hands and solid knowledge of positioning that comes with experience.
    
    That's what I thought; however, the defensive average numbers show
    Sandberg to have very good -to- excellent range.  I'm convinced that
    Sandberg wasn't overrated defensively; given that, a debate between
    Morgan and Sandberg makes sense.  (Though, as I said, I'd still take
    Morgan.  Except as an announcer...B^)
    
    Joe

    Morgan may have been the best of all time.   Sandberg could have put up
    the longevity numbers if he hung around...  oh well...
    

Morgan was the best 2nd baseman of his era (70's). 

Sandberg was the best 2nd baseman of his era (80's).

I'd rate them about even defensively, on hitting for average, power, and RBIs.

Morgan stole more bases, scored more runs, and was a much stronger team 
leader, both on the field and off.

I'd rate Morgan the best of all time at 2b, but you gotta put Sandberg in the 
top 5.

Bruce (who finally has some time to note in ::sports)

Bruce,

Are you related to Brian?  Distant cousin perhaps?


'Saw

�Are you related to Brian?  Distant cousin perhaps?

Why yes, as a matter of fact, he's my brother.

Now before you get all excited, my brother Brian is a 35 yr. old GM factory
worker up in Dayton and has never played hockey in his life.

I did talk to my dad once about Brian Leetch the hockey player ("Leetch" is an
uncommon spelling of Leech/Leach/etc.) and we did figure out that we are
related, but distantly. There is a whole splinter of the Leetch family that is
back east that we only see the elders of at family reunions. They used to talk 
about their grandson the hockey player. He was in college then (I think).

I did almost get Brian Leetch the hocky player's hotel room once. The US
Olympic team was in town and staying at the same hotel the DEC Christmas party
was at. My wife and I were getting a room since we would be both partaking in
demon alcohol. When I checked in ("the name is Leetch, L-e-e-t-c-h") there was
a flurry of activity and they began to tell me about team meetings, when the
bus leaves, etc.. 

When this was all met with a blank stare, they finally figured out there were 
two Leetch's that had reservations, Brian and Bruce and that I was the nobody.

Bruce

Yer funny Bruce.

You should have taken the room -- they wouldn't have known until you
tried to skate (if you don't skate that is)

Well, I guess the Leetch's (the Chesire, Connecticut Leetch's) phone has
been ringing off the hook.

Can't wait to talk to my friend Chris (well, my other friend Chris, not
the marathon runner) on Monday night, since he lives next door to them, to
see what's up.

It's kind of a big thing out here, because he's the first American to
win the Conn Smythe, and because he's a home town kid.


Well, tell Brian to keep on making them cars good!

8^)