Conference hbahba::cam_sports

Had a bit of sad news this morning.


Every year the radio station I listen to on the ride in does their global
Super Bowl Picks.   They have several people all over the world that
they call each year to find their out who they like to win the Super Bowl.

This has been going on for the last five years anyway.

Well, when Smith & Barber called England this morning, to talk to
Jim Gibson, the Public Relations Director of a Toilet Company, and probably
the favorite "World Wide Super Bowl Correspondant", they found out the
unfortunate news that Jim died of a heart attack last May.

Somehow, the Super Bowl picks just didn't seem the same this morning....


RIP Jim.....


'Saw

Los Angelese Lakers

slasher, Care to place your p-name at stake ?

The Crazy Met

    <<< Note 89.2 by DUGROS::ROSS
    
    >>> Los Angelese Lakers
    
    Whoaaa, the final score only showed a 15-point loss to the Nets !
    They were only down by 29 at the half. Sheesh ! 
    
    RIP, indeed.
     
    - acp

    
    R.I.P  
    
    Andre' the Giant - 7'5", 530 lbs, former wrestling guy while visiting
    France to attend his daddy's funeral of a heart attack.
    
    

    
    RIO=Rest in Oversizedcasket?

Not Sports related per se, but on this date in 1959, Buddy Holly, 
The Big Bopper, and Richie Valens were killed in the plane crash in Iowa.

"The Day the Music Died"



'Saw

Arthur Ashe died of pneumonia at 3:16 pm Saturday afternoon.

The sports world has lost one very classy gentleman, and the world has
lost one very genuine human being.


RIP Arthur.


'Saw

    	I turned on the tube to hear Jesse Jackson talking about
    	"a candle being snuffed out," or something like that. I,
    	of course, had no idea. But when Donald Dell came on, in
    	tears, I knew it had to be Arthur Ashe.
    
    	I can't forget '75 and Wimbledon.
    
    	One class act.
    
    	Scott

    The tribute yesterday on SportsCenter was really moving.  Robin Roberts
    and Frank Deford were in tears.  Really sorry that in the efforts I
    made, I never got to meet him in person.
    
    Heard his biggest thrill wasn't winning Wimbledon or the US Open, but
    hearing that Mandela was released and that he was the first American
    Mandela wanted to meet when he came to the US.  I think that summed
    him up as well as anything.
    

	Ashe transcended not only his sport, but sports.  He used his 
celebrity to champion causes he believed were right (not necessarily de 
jour or profitable), and to help those less fortunate.  He didn't use his 
fame to cash in on a buck like so many today do.  The world will certainly 
miss him.

				/Don

    One of the finest Christian athletes in all of sports.  

   >> One of the finest Christian athletes in all of sports.  
    
      Oh, never mind.

�   >> One of the finest Christian athletes in all of sports.  
    
�      Oh, never mind.

Thanks Tommy, you saved me too.

Tommy, right after .14 was posted Ihad a reply all set to go and decided
to wait a day before replying. Thanks for replying so eloquently.

The Crazy Met

    Ok, I'll take the bait...
    
    I don't think the word Christian needs to be there... the rest of the
    sentence stands on its own.  As I don't think black, Virginian or
    American are necessary...
    

>    Ok, I'll take the bait...
>    
>    I don't think the word Christian needs to be there... the rest of the
>    sentence stands on its own.  As I don't think black, Virginian or
>    American are necessary...


Along those lines, I'll steal something from Will which says it
best:


	He was a man, take him for all and all.
	We shall not look upon his like again.



'Saw    

eloquent: adj. 1. Fluent and persuasive in discourse 2. Movingly
expressive.

In the context of response 1. is not a bad fit.

Anyways any reasonable response to stuff like .14 is nice; if that
makes me too easy to please so be it.

The Crazy Met

    It's also not necessary to ignore aspects that made his character
    great.

>    It's also not necessary to ignore aspects that made his character
>    great.

Wouldn't those same aspects have been there if he was a Jew, a Hindu,
a Buddhist, a Muslim, or any of a host of other religions I've forgotten
to mention?


'Saw

    Even if they allowed their people to exercise their competitive natures
    and athleticism, I would still doubt it.
    
    Arthur Ashe was definitely a one-of-a-kind with strong personal values.

Either I totally misunderstood .25 or the response I am thinking of would
surely be hidden.

The Crazy Met

    Hey TCM, do you have a JPEG viewer?  I have a team photo of the new
    Mets for ya.

I have a jpeg to gif converter and have a gif viewer. You can send me a
pointer.

The Crazy Met

    
    	If being eloquent is a lot like rugby, 
    
    
    
    
    	is "going over my head" a lot like Farley?
    
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    yer official dumpster inspector
    Kev
    

Subject: Arthur Ashe Career Highlights
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 93 17:02:40 PST
    
	Born: July 10, 1943 in Richmond, Virginia
	Residence: New York, New York
	Family: Wife, Jeanne; Daughter, Camera Elizabeth (married 1977)
	Pro Career: 1965-1979
	Career Titles: 33 (singles), 18 (doubles)
	Died: February 6, 1993 of AIDS-related pneumonia
    
	1968: U.S. Open singles champion
	1970: Australian Open singles champion; 1977 doubles champion (w/Tony
        Roche)
	1971: French Open doubles champion (w/Marty Riessen)
	1975: Wimbledon singles champion
    
	Played 10 years on the U.S. Davis Cup team (1963, 1965, 1966, 1967,
        1968, 1969, 1970, 1975, 1977, 1978); compiled 28-6 career mark (singles
        & doubles)
	Was Davis Cup-winning team member five times: (1963, 1968, 1969,
        1970, 1978)
	Captained Davis Cup team from 1981-85, winning 13 of 16 ties. Led U.S. 
        to Cup titles in 1981-82
	Served as second president of ATP in 1974
	Was top-ranked American in 1968 & 1975
	Ranked a career-high No. 2 on ATP computer on May 10, 1976. Earned
        $1,584,909 in career prize money
	All-American at UCLA; NCAA singles ad doubles champion in 1965
    
    	Commentator, ABC Sports and HBO Sports
	Board of Directors, Aetna Life & Casualty Co.
	Co-founder of the National Junior Tennis League
    

Subject: Arthur Ashe Family Statement
Date: 8 Feb 93 01:09:30 GMT
    
     "Today, the tennis and sports world mourns the death of Arthur Ashe.
Arthur died yesterday at 3:13 p.m. in the New York Hospital of pneumonia
and AIDS complications."
	
     "Arthur was so special because of his quiet courage and
selflessness, which made a lasting impact on those he touched," said
Donald Dell, Arthur's attorney and friend of 25 years. "Arthur set an
example and standard of personal conduct for all of us who loved him to
try to emulate in our lives. The world will never experience another
sportsman like Arthur Ashe."
	
     Ashe's wife, Jeannie, announced today that Arthur will lie in state
at the Capitol in Richmond, Va., on Tuesday, February 9, from 5 to 9 p.m.
	
     Funeral services will be held on Wednesday, February 10, at 1 p.m. at
the Arthur Ashe Youth Center in Richmond, and he will be buried there at
the Woodland Cemetary. There will be a Memorial Service on Friday,
February 12 in New York.
	
     "Arthur was the ultimate competitor in tennis and in life," said
Jeanne Ashe. "He fought hard on the last days of his life and even
though he lost his battle, as in his tennis days, it was always how he
played the game. He will be greatly missed by Camera and me and by our
entire family."
	
     The Ashe family asks that in lieu of flowers, contributions be sent
to the Arthur Ashe Foundation for the Defeat of AIDS, c/o 100 Park
Avenue, New York City.
    

    
    Anyone know if he was on the Aetna board before or after he contracted
    AIDS?  It must have made for some interesting board meetings, as
    insurance companies are trying to determine how to handle AIDS from a
    risk standpoint.

>    Anyone know if he was on the Aetna board before or after he contracted
>    AIDS?  It must have made for some interesting board meetings, as
>    insurance companies are trying to determine how to handle AIDS from a
>    risk standpoint.


I believe he was on before, and that last report on the news that I 
heard said that he voted NOT to extend coverage to people with AIDS,
knowing the economic impact it would have.

I'm sure there's more to the story that I don't have the information
for to add here....


'Saw

         To my dear friends,

         Yesterday afternoon my son Greg was killed in a freak sno-tube
         accident.  He was with me at the time.

         Since I've shared many happy moments with you about Greg's soccer,
         Little League and Cub Scouts activities (particularly the Pine
         Wood Derby), I want to share with you the following:

         The wake will be held at the:

                         Robert C. Roney Funeral Home
                         152 Worcester Street
                         N. Grafton
                         508-839-4491

              The funeral home is located just south of the intersection
         of Rte. 122 and 140. At this point, both roads merge and pass
         under the Mass Turnpike.

              Visiting Hours are Tuesday 2-4PM
                                         6-9PM

         Greg's funeral will be held on Wednesday at 11:00AM at

                        St.Mary's Catholic Church
                        17 Waterville Street
                        No. Grafton
                        508-839-3993
              (Waterville Street is commonly known as Rte. 30 and it
         intersects 140.)
         Burial will be directly across the street from the church.
    
         I understand that there will be an obituary in Monday's Worcester
         Telegram and Gazette.


         Carol and I have made the request that anyone wanting to remember
         Greg do so through a donation to "Make A Wish".  We think this is
         the legitimate organization for little kids.

         As I've considered you to be members of my "extended family",
         please do not consider youselves to be "unwelcome" - you are
         welcome to come.

         sorry but I don't feel like "remaining" right now
         Kev

    permission granted to forward

	If anyone would like a ride from the Merrimack, NH area Tuesday
	send me mail.  I can fit at least seven in my van.

	Bill

I think it might be appropriate if we met someplace first and went
as a group.

Is there any place near there that might be suitable?  Or should we
just try to hitch up in the parking lot of the Funeral Home?

Any ideas?


'Saw

The consensus seems to be that we meet at the Other Place Pub, and 
carpool down to the funeral home.

From what I understand the funeral home is on Rt 140, about four miles
south of 290.

All we have to do is pick a time to meet at the OPP, and that's up to 
folks.   I don't plan on leaving here LATER than 5pm, which puts me at
the OPP at about 6pm, I guess.


Let's pick a time....

'Saw

Okay, here it is officially.

We will be meeting at the Other Place Pub on Rt 140 in Boylston.  The
time to meet will be between 5:45 - 6pm.

We will carpool down to the Funeral Home, which is basically a straight-shot
down 140, and might take us 10-15 minutes (about 8 miles).  

Afterwards, I know that I will be stopping in the OPP for something to
drink, and anyone is welcome to join me.


If you have any questions, please let me know.....


'Saw

    I just now read this notice, and I am truly sorry to hear of the
    accident, Kev.
    
    Please accept my deepest condolenses for you and your family.
    
    Lee

    I have not been SPORTS since last week.  Imagine my shock and sadness
    when the second note I read was from Kev.
    
    Nothing I can say will lessen your grief Kev, but please accept
    my heartfelt condolences.  May God give you and your family the
    strength to carry on.
    
    NAZZ

Kev,

I also just saw your note. 

As a father, I know that the words "I'm sorry" do little to aid 
you in your pain and grief. I wish you the strength to carry on 
and hope that the joy of remembering the years that you were 
blessed with your son can help you through.

My heartfelt sympathy.

daryll

    Daryll... thank you for saying what I feel... I have a young son and I
    can not describe what I can feel if I lost him. Kevin, I know the joy
    and happiness that you have felt. Now I feel the sorrow... The missing
    in your life... When I look at my son I will remember the thoughts,
    the fun, the hard times that you went through with your son...
    Your son lives in some of us.... Thank you for sharing your thoughts,
    your experiences, you feelings with us... 

    Rick, Donna, and Jesse King...

In a somewhat non-sports related obit (save for all the music we discuss
in the JN note)

	Toy Caldwell, guitarist, vocalist and founding member of
	the Marshall Tucker Band, died yesterday at his home in
	South Carolina.  He was 45.

	He had been suffering from Bronchitis and Pneumonia.


If I remember correctly, his brother Tommy was killed in a jeep accident
back in the late 70s, when someone cut him off and he was thrown from
the jeep.

Last night, on WPLR's "Blues Fix At Six" they did a tribute to Toy,
doing a version of Marshall Tucker's cover of "Every Day I Have the Blues"


RIP Toy,


'Saw

Toy Caldwell, lead singer from the Marshall Tucker Band died last 
Friday.

daryll

>Toy Caldwell, lead singer from the Marshall Tucker Band died last 
>Friday.
>
>daryll


See .46  8^)

    pssst...Daryll, check out .46.
    
    Mark.

I'm not 100% positive about this, because I can't get confirmation,
but I believe Lou Sabin, former coach of the Buffalo Bills has died.
The dates were 1906-1993.

Again, I might be wrong, because my sources have only provided sketchy
details.....


'Saw

    
>>but I believe Lou Sabin, former coach of the Buffalo Bills has died.
>>The dates were 1906-1993.
    
    Sheez, I didn't know he coached them fer that long!!!  (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

                      
>>but I believe Lou Sabin, former coach of the Buffalo Bills has died.
>>The dates were 1906-1993.
    
  >  Sheez, I didn't know he coached them fer that long!!!  (8^)*
    
    Seriously, though, if that's the correct birthdate, I don't think we're
    talking about Lou Saban.  I don't think he's 87 years old.
    
    glenn
    

>    Seriously, though, if that's the correct birthdate, I don't think we're
>    talking about Lou Saban.  I don't think he's 87 years old.
    
I remember a report done on him a few years ago on a news show or something,
and he was actually quite old at the time.   The other thing I seem to
remember was back when he was coaching the Bills he was up there in years,
comparitively.

I'll bet I'm right -- I just wish I had more definitive info.....


'Saw    

    Lou Saban was the Patriots first coach in 1960, before he went to the
    Buffalo Bills, no?  I thought he was in his early 40's then (1960).
    Mebbe 70 somefin might be right.
    
    MikeL
    

>    Lou Saban was the Patriots first coach in 1960, before he went to the
>    Buffalo Bills, no?  I thought he was in his early 40's then (1960).
>    Mebbe 70 somefin might be right.
    
Hey, I could be wrong.  Wouldn't be the firsted time....

Kind of reminds me of the time that I told this dweeb in our high school
chemistry class that if you stuck the forceps into the electrical outlet
you'd see this big electrical arc shoot out.  I warned him to do it quick.

I thought it would be funny.  I was wrong.


It was downright hilarious.


This guy sticks the forceps into the outlet, and no circuit breakers blew
or anything.  He's standing there with his hand on those forceps, going
"ahhhh...."  "ahhhhhhhhhhhh...."  "AHHHHHHHHHHH", and gettin' ready to
start doing the jitterbug when the teacher came along and whapped his
hand off them forceps.

They took him down to the nurse -- he couldn't really talk straight.

They almost had to take me and my friends down, because we had almost
herniated ourselves laughing so hard......


'Saw    

    
>>Kind of reminds me of the time that I told this dweeb in our high school
>>chemistry class that if you stuck the forceps into the electrical outlet
>>you'd see this big electrical arc shoot out.  I warned him to do it quick.
    
    Cruel, Saw, cruel.  You probably talked someone into putting a bullet
    into the furnace in metal shop class too, huh????  
    
    JaKe
    

    You may very well be right, 'Saw.  Saban is not a young man.  I do know
    that he was coaching major college football at Miami in the late '70s
    (Schnellenberger gets most of the credit but Saban started the
    program's revival; he was the guy who recruited Jim Kelly), and I think
    he was still coaching at some Podunk U as late as a year or two ago.
    'Course coaching college football at that age in this intense era may 
    have been what accelerated George Allen's demise, too...
    
    glenn
    

Uh, Albert Sabin died yesterday. He gave the world the polio 
vaccine. I couldn't find Lou's obit anywhere.

You sure you got the right guy?

daryll

>You sure you got the right guy?

Nope, I don't.

Like I said, my sources gave me sketchy information, couldn't provide me
with much to begin with.

I didn't have a way to corroborate but decided to run the story on the
off-chance that I was right, and would have scooped everyone.

So, now I have to print a retraction:


		Okay, in yesterday's story, I f***ed up.


Okay, now that that is retracted, I'd rate my performance yesterday
somewhere above a misspelling in a small town newspaper, and somewhere
below rigging a pickup truck to explode so I'd have a story.......


[isfh]
'Saw

    Well 'Saw,
    Ya haven't answered the real question..... How old is Lou Saban and
    how much longer can he expect to live now that you've given him
    the Hebron KOD??
    
    MikeL
    

    
    Sounds like you may have been victim to a_innocent college prank, 'Saw.
    That's what you get for listening to Lynyrd Skynyrd albums backwards...
    
    ;-)
    
    glenn
    

>    Sounds like you may have been victim to a_innocent college prank, 'Saw.
>    That's what you get for listening to Lynyrd Skynyrd albums backwards...
    

Well, Glenn, you know how it is with sources.  Sometimes they're really 
good, sometimes they are questionable.   Considering the source didn't
know much about sports, and i had to jump to some conclusions puts
me just as much to BLAM.


As to the Hebron KOD, who knows.  We could always start the Lou Saban
watch.....


'aw    

    
    Glenn, 
    
    I know Sen. Joe McCarthy is dead.  He's been dead for many years.  Ask
    'saw when he was borned, though.
    
    brews

>    I know Sen. Joe McCarthy is dead.  He's been dead for many years.  Ask
>    'saw when he was borned, though.
    
1908.

He died in 1957, which was the year before I was born.....

 �     McCarthy is dead.  He's been dead for many years.  Ask

Paul McCartney is not dead - that was another prank...

    
    'saw said he died in '57.  What gives?  Now you're gonna tell me Lou
    Saban ain't dead either.
    
    brews

I burried Lou

�Title:  McCarthy and Bergen were a big hit in the Senate...
 
Let's not start that "Murphy Brown" thang again... 

    
>>Uh, Albert Sabin died yesterday. He gave the world the polio 
>>vaccine.                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^^^^^
    
    Shouldn't ol' Jonas Salk be mentioned in that statement somewhere???
    
    JaKe
    

 <<< Note 89.72 by PFSVAX::JACOB "I234567890123456789012345678901234567890" >>>
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Running a little keyboard diag there Jake?

    I probably shouldn't attempt to enter this from memory and if I am
    badly wrong I will drink shaeffer for my sin...
    
    There were two vaccines for polio and Sabin's came out first.  Salk's
    however became the vaccine of choice.  The race to be first with a
    polio vaccine was akin to Lindbergh trying to get to Paris ahead of
    ???? and the rest (can't remember ? - daughter worked for DEC).
    
    Anyway the two vaccines work differently and in a nutshell Jonas Salk,
    who is truly admirable as far as I have ever heard, his vaccine was the
    politically correct.
    
    So that is why Al dies and we confuse him with someone really important
    like Lou - 
    
    And since this is R.I.P. wasn't Len Bias just about the best basketball
    player ACC ever produced - Michael only played two years remember.  I
    mention Len after seeing Rogers for first time and he is no Bias, more
    an Antoine Carr which is no insult.

>>      <<< Note 89.73 by CAMONE::WAY "Are you ready for the real McCoy?" >>>

>> <<< Note 89.72 by PFSVAX::JACOB "I234567890123456789012345678901234567890" >>>
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>>Running a little keyboard diag there Jake?

    Nah, just sizing up the p_name space fer the new p_name I'm putting on
    order.
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    
    

>> There were two vaccines for polio and Sabin's came out first.  Salk's
>>  however became the vaccine of choice.  The race to be first with a
>>  polio vaccine was akin to Lindbergh trying to get to Paris ahead of
>>  ???? and the rest (can't remember ? - daughter worked for DEC).

From the obit in today's Boston Globe (about Sabin's vaccine):

	....Because it was dispensed on a sugar cube, it rapidly replaced
	an injected killed-virus vaccine developed seven years earlier
	by Jonas Salk. Not only was it easier to take and administer,
	it provided linger protection"

    Yo Mssr Corrigan,
    To digress, Is  You related to Wrong Way Corrigan?
    
    Anyhoo, yo' last sentence said "linger" and I'm sure you meant "longer"
    In this case, could mean the same, n'est-ce-pas?
    
    Re. JaKe' P_name
    Nah, JaKe must be PO'd about somethin'.... You know, count to ten if
    you're mad... Well JaKey got to 9 then went to 0, Either he cain't
    count or must be a "C" main.  8^)
    
    MikeL
    

    
    >>you're mad... Well JaKey got to 9 then went to 0, Either he cain't
    >>count or must be a "C" main.  8^)
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Damn right, a "C" man, and a "T & A" man, too!!!!!!
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    I am so glad I have linger protection.  I think everyone should be
    protected from linger.

    
    Jake's happy as long as they're breathing.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

�Uh, Albert Sabin died yesterday. He gave the world the polio 
�vaccine. I couldn't find Lou's obit anywhere.

That must have been one might big vaccine.

j.

    
    Steve Olin    1965-1993
    Tim Crews     1961-1993

I heard on the news this morning that reigning Winston Cup Champ
Alan Kulwicki was killed in a plane crash as he headed into Bristol
Tennessee for this week's race.

Alan drove the Hooter's Ford Thunderbird, #7.

Last season, he won the closest ever Winston Cup Championship, beating
Bill Elliot by 10 points, finishing second to Elliot in the last
race of the season, but winning the Winston Cup Championship by virtue
of having led one more lap in the race than Elliot.


RIP #7,


'Saw

    Yeah, heard about this this morning when I flipped on SportsCenter and
    they ended it with still photos of his career.  Bummer, a guy who
    decides to own his car and do things his way, does well, and this
    stuff happens... sigh...
    
    Was looking forward to trying to get a Kulwicki/Hooters shirt in
    Baltimore in June too...
    
    
    -Walt
    

>    Was looking forward to trying to get a Kulwicki/Hooters shirt in
>    Baltimore in June too...

A collector's item if you can get it.


The thing that always impressed me about Kulwicki was best illustrated
by what happened at Atlanta a couple weeks back.

Dick Trickle wiped Alan out, plowing into the back end of his car.  
When they interviewed Kulwicki in the pits, he said "I'm okay, just a bit
of bad luck.  I hope no one else was hurt."

I liked that.


'Saw    

LIVEWIRE 
                               Worldwide News                      LIVE WIRE

            Digital announces plans to relocate headquarters to MSO 
            and transfer operations from the Mill to other sites 

  Digital today announced plans to relocate the company's headquarters from 
  the Mill to another site in Maynard and transfer operations located at the 
  Mill to other Digital locations.  The relocation process will begin late 
  this summer and extend over the next two years.

  In a series of meetings, over 2,100 Mill employees were told that the 
  decision is part of a comprehensive real estate strategy and came about as 
  a result of Digital's continuing analysis of the company's space 
  requirements and efforts to consolidate activities into more efficient and 
  cost-effective facilities.  Most of the employees and operations now located 
  in the Mill will be relocated to other Digital-owned eastern Massachusetts 
  buildings.

 More   --> 
)0lqwqwqwqwqwqwqkTMqqrrsssrrqq 
xdxixgxixtxaxlxWorldwide News                      LIVE WIRE
mqvqvqvqvqvqvqjqqppoooppqq 

   The Mill, cont'd 

  The company's world headquarters will remain in the town of Maynard, but 
  move to MSO2 on Powdermill Road, a building that was opened in 1991.  "We 
  considered the strong symbolism of the Mill as the location where the 
  company began 35 years ago and the impact that our decision would have on 
  the community," said Bob Palmer, president and CEO.  "Our decision was 
  difficult, but in light of the information we studied about cost of 
  operation, functionality and location, we had no alternative but to begin 
  phasing out operations in the complex and consolidating them among our 
  other properties."

  Bob has appointed a Mill Program Manager, Nancy Salustro.  He has also 
  asked a committee of senior managers to help her work with town, state and 
  federal government officials, and outside developers to create plans for a  
  reuse of the complex that will produce the maximum social and economic value.

 More   --> 
)0lqwqwqwqwqwqwqkTMqqrrsssrrqq 
xdxixgxixtxaxlxWorldwide News                      LIVE WIRE
mqvqvqvqvqvqvqjqqppoooppqq 

   The Mill, cont'd 

  Decisions about where to locate other activities from the Mill will be made 
  by analyzing where they best fit with related groups at other sites and the 
  effect the moves will have on enhancing Digital's ability to be customer-
  focused.

  Senior managers explained how Digital's real estate strategy has resulted 
  in more efficient, cost-effective facilities management, first by moving out 
  of leased facilities into Digital-owned buildings.  The second tier of study 
  is an analysis of future space needs and criteria for determining 
  consolidation into the most efficient facilities.  The Mill contains 
  approximately 1.1 million square feet of space and includes corporate 
  executive and administrative offices, laboratories and manufacturing 
  operations.  Efforts to date have resulted in the reduction 8.7 million 
  square feet of space and an annual savings of $219 million.

 More   --> 
)0lqwqwqwqwqwqwqkTMqqrrsssrrqq 
xdxixgxixtxaxlxWorldwide News                      LIVE WIRE
mqvqvqvqvqvqvqjqqppoooppqq 

   The Mill, cont'd 

  The original Mill structure was built in 1847 by Amory Maynard and William 
  Knight, principals of the Assabet Mills.  Reorganized in 1862 as the Assabet 
  Manufacturing Company, it supplied woolen cloth, blankets and flannels to 
  the Union Army during the Civil War.  In 1957, Digital began operations in 
  8600 square feet of rented space in The Mill.  As the company grew, it 
  occupied greater portions of the available space until the total site was 
  purchased by Digital in 1974.
  To return to the previous menu, press  PF3 


    Jim Valvano has passed sway this morning the the Duke University
    hosital due to cancer....
    
    REK  :-(

    Not unexpected, but still a major big-time bummer.
    
    :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris

As someone who is not a big basketball fan, Valvano's commentary etc 
always made the game more interesting to me.

And then I heard of his attitude in his fight against cancer, and I was
even more impressed.

This is a sad day indeed.....


'Saw

Path: pa.dec.com!decwrl!uunet!looking!clarinews
From: [email protected] (UPI)
Subject: Valvano dead from cancer
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 9:45:26 PDT
Location: virginia
ACategory: sports
Slugword: valvano-obit
Priority: major
Format: regular
 
	RALEIGH, N.C. (UPI) -- Jim Valvano, an exuberant, upbeat, master
motivator who guided the 1983 North Carolina State basketball team to
one of the greatest upsets in NCAA tournament history, died Wednesday of
cancer. He was 47.
	Valvano, who coached at N.C. State for 10 seasons before taking a job
as an analyst for ESPN, died at 10:30 a.m. EDT, said Richard Merritt of
the Medical Center. He offered no further details.
	Valvano is survived by his wife, Pam, and three daughters.
	Valvano had been waging a high-profile battle against cancer for a
year, completing assignments for ESPN and ABC-TV even though in recent
months he often needed assistance getting to and from his seat at the
announcer's table. Valvano said the jobs had been his salvation in the
desperate moments.
	He is most remembered, though, for guiding the Wolfpack, a huge
underdog, to the NCAA championship in 1983. In the championship game at
Albuquerque, N.M., the Wolfpack used a slow-down offense and sagging
zone defense to upset No. 1 Houston, 54-52, on Lorenzo Charles' lay-in
at the buzzer.
	Television cameras focused on an ecstatic Valvano dashing frantically
around the court in search of someone to hug.
	On Feb. 21, N.C. State conducted an emotional 10th anniversary
celebration of its 1983 NCAA title, and Valvano's appearance capped the
ceremony.
	Valvano didn't show the customary swagger that was a fixture whenever
his Wolfpack players took the court, or whenever he put in an appearance
throughout North Carolina or the nation.
	``Today, I fight a different battle,'' Valvano said. ``You see, I
have trouble walking, and I have trouble standing for a long period of
time. Cancer has taken away a lot of my physical abilities.
	``What cancer cannot touch is my mind, my heart and my soul.''
	The situation began to unravel for Valvano at N.C. State in January
1989 with the release of a book titled ``Personal Fouls -- The Broken
Promises and Shattered Dreams of Big Money Basketball at Jim Valvano's
North Carolina State.''
	The book portrayed the N.C. State basketball program as one totally
out of control under Valvano.
	The claims led to an investigation by the state of North Carolina,
which found no evidence to support the book's claims. The NCAA, however,
found plenty wrong.
	Eight rules violations landed the school on NCAA probation for two
years after it was revealed that players had sold sneakers and
complimentary game tickets.
	Furthermore, a former Wolpack player, Charles Shackleford, admitted
he had accepted $65,000 from an agent and a New Jersey businessman to
shave points.
	The scandal forced Valvano to resign in April 1990, but in true
Valvano style, the coach made light of the situation with a joke: ``I
have a very important problem to solve immediately,'' Valvano said the
day after announcing his resignation. ``I've got a terrible slice off
the (golf) tee. I'm going to start working on that Monday.''
	He was first diagnosed with cancer in June 1992. Doctors told him he
had one year to live. It was metastatic adenocarcinoma, which physicians
described as incurable. The cancer originates in glandular tissue and
spreads to the rest of the body.
	Valvano received treatment every two weeks at Duke Medical Center.
Every six weeks he took a heavy dose of chemotherapy.
	Valvano in February 1993 said the memories of that 1983 championship
season carried him through his illness. It was the ``Survive and
Advance'' slogan that went along with N.C. State that season.
	``I have hope that maybe things can get better for me,'' he said. ``I
have faith in God and in my fellow man that things might get better for
me.
	``That team taught me that persistence, the idea of never, ever
quitting,'' Valvano said, his voice rising to the occasion. ``Don't ever
quit.''
	In December 1992, Valvano told Sports Illustrated about the fear he
carries with him everywhere he goes, the nightmares that wake him in the
middle of the night, the unremitting despair he had to continuously
battle.
	Often, after games in Reynolds Coliseum in Raleigh, N.C., Valvano and
his staff would repair to the basketball office, not to view tape the
way many coaches do, but to eat pizza, drink beer and relax.
	Valvano never could go home and sleep after a game, so he sat with
the staff and any friends who might happen by, and exchanged yarns.
During those sessions, he often doubted himself the way the most
brilliant people often do.
	He told The Washington Post he respected what John Wooden and Dean
Smith had done, but was not intimidated by Smith's long shadow the way
many other Atlantic Coast Conference did.
	The February celebration honoring North Carolina State's 1983
national championship team triggered a torrent of emotions.
	Make them laugh: ``I'm at a loss for words,'' Valvano said after
receiving a rousing ovation from the 12,400 Wolfpack fans. ``You know
that's not true.'' Laughs fill the Reynolds Coliseum.
	With his wife, Pam, at his side, Valvano hugged each player from the
1983 championship team. After an introduction from N.C. State football
Coach Dick Sheridan, Valvano took center court and began to hum the
Wolfpack fight song.
	Make them cry: ``What cancer cannot touch is my mind, my heart and my
soul. It can't touch those things.''
	Make them think: ``I love the 1983 team. That team taught me
persistence, the idea of never, ever quitting,'' Valvano said. ``Don't
ever quit.
	``In this life, you must dream. And then you must try to live that
dream. I am very lucky, my life has been a dream.''
	Valvano left a few messages for the students as well. Basically, he
said the next time you see your parents or your brothers or sisters,
give them a hug. Tell them you love them.
	And the students had a message for him displayed on bumper stickers
throughout the Raleigh area: ``Jimmy V. Don't Give Up.''
	Valvano made a touching appearance at ESPN's ESPY awards ceremonies
the first week of March. Dick Vitale had to help Valvano to the podium,
and when he completed a moving speech, Valvano had to be escorted back
to his seat by Vitale and Duke Coach Mike Krzyzewski, who accompanied
him to New York.
	``Time is very precious to me,'' Valvano said. ``I don't know how
much I have left.''
	There were few dry eyes in the place. Tears streamed down Joe
Theismann's face. Then, to make the occasion even more moving, they sang
``Wind Beneath My Wings.'' The camera cut to Valvano, singing along...`
''You never knew that you're my hero...``
	The Queens, N.Y., native, a former Rutgers basketball star, was named
as the first member of the inaugural class of inductees in the Rutgers
Basketball Hall of Fame. Valvano was to be honored by Rutgers April 15
at the season-ending banquet for the men's basketball team.
	He graduated from Rutgers with an English degree in 1967, then
coached the Rutgers freshman team for two seasons. He coached Johns
Hopkins from 1969-70, served as an assistant at Connecticut from 1970-
72, then took over the Bucknell program from 1972-75. After a successful
stint at Iona from 1975-80, he assumed the reins at N.C. State in 1980.

    Also passing away on April 28 was Ben Schwartzwalder,who coached
    Syracuse to its only national championship in 1961 and was the coach
    during most of SU's glory period in the 50's and 60's.
    
    Jimmy V's death has really hit me hard and made me realize once again
    how precious every day is. What a terrible loss for the world.

Wonderful editorial cartoon in the Hartford Courant, by Bob Englehardt.


It consisted of two frames:

	Frame 1 was Jimmy V dressed in a sweater, holding a clipboard
	with a whistle around his next.   The caption was "Survive..."
	
	Frame 2 was Jimmy V dressed the same way, with wings and halo
	and flying upwards through the clouds.  The captions read
	"and Advance"


RIP Jimmy V,


'Saw

    
    Makes you look at priorities when you see an exuberant life like Jimmy
    V's snuffed out by cancer... Sad times.
    
    I saw that note on Scwartzwalder.. didn't he coach Ernie Davis, Jim
    Nance, and Jim Brown?/
    
    MikeL
    
    P.S.
    'Saw,  any word on Lou Saban yet?
    

>    'Saw,  any word on Lou Saban yet?

Still alive and kickin', like a Timex that took a lickin'......

    

                          
>>    'Saw,  any word on Lou Saban yet?
>
> Still alive and kickin', like a Timex that took a lickin'......
    
    Haven't we put the poor Saban family through enough already?
    
    One very positive thing coming at the end of Jim Valvano's life was
    that through his position as a television celebrity the public got a
    good look at the type of person he was.  As I read in a column in the
    paper yesterday and which I had kind of forgotten, ABC's decision to
    hire Valvano coming off the NC State scandals was heavily criticized,
    by just about every one.  I think I was probably amongst that bunch.  
    But in a very short time (even before the cancer), Valvano was able to 
    shed that stigma.  He went out on top, in just about every way...
    
    glenn
    

    Sorry to hear about Ben S. - didn't see that one in the paper.  He
    coached SU for quite a while, up until the early-mid 70's, right?
    
    Joe

      He also coached Floyd Little.

    Between 1955 and 1967 Ben had the following runners: Jim Borwn,Ernie
    Davis,Jim Nance,Floyd Little and Larry Csonka. Only USC and perhaps
    Auburn can match that  group over such a short period.
    
    One of his colleagues said noone every called Schwartzwalder anything
    but Coach.

Schwartwalder can also be remebered for being lambasted for his blood-and-guts 
approach to teh game in football player turned hippie Dave Meghassy's (sp)  
early 70's book "Out of Their League".  Meghassy whined aobut the "football 
establishement", and how they are corrupt, etc, etc.  He was a linebacker 
and special teams guy at Syracuse and in the NFL with St. Louis.

=Bob=

     
    NFL veteran Dave Waymer dead at 34
    
    From the AP (reprinted w/o permission), Charlotte, N.C.
    
    "Traces of cocaine were found in the blood and urine of Los Angeles
    Raiders defensive back Dave Waymer, although a medical examiner said
    the cause of his death Friday had not yet been determined.
    
    An artery supplying Waymer's heart was narrowed, said Dr. Patrick
    Lantz, Forsyth County. N.C. medical examiner. Heart muscle tissue
    will be examined under a microscope and there will be additional
    tests to determine the amount of cocaine in Waymer's system.
    
    "Dave is gone," said Greg Campbell, Waymer's agent in Los Angeles.
    "He woke up this morning and he had his baby boy on his lap and he
    just collapsed. His wife called 911, but just before the paramedics
    arrived he was dead of an apparent heart attack."
    
    Waymer, who played at Notre Dame, was a second-round draft choice of
    the Saints in 1980 and played with New Orleans for 10 years. He had
    48 career interceptions, including a team-leading 7 in 1990 for the
    49ers."
    
    Another sad case ...
    
    - acp

    RIP "CHEERS", finally.  Been suffering horribly fer the last few years.
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Billy Conn, a local boxing legend here, died Saturday morning.  He wqas
    75.
    
    Conn's claim to fame was his Heavyweight title fight on June 18, 1941,
    against Joe Louis.  Conn had outpointed Louis thru the first 12 rounds
    of the fight.  In the 13th round, COnn abandoned his stand-up boxing
    style and tried for a knockout, much againt the advice of his manager,
    Johnny Ray.  Conn was knocked out with just 2 seconds left in the 13th
    round.
    
    He held the light-heavyweight title from July 13, 1939 until June 5,
    1940, before giving up the title to join the heavyweight ranks to
    challenge Louis.
    
    JaKe
    

    Mize's overall records were directly impacted by wwII but he was
    selected to HOF, probably from recommendations of peers.
    
    Also, Tupolo legend bj mccallister circa 1965.  possible career as
    pitcher cut shot by trajic bridge accident rumored to be suicide.
    
    Also worthy of note but i'm going to bed was Beaver Mather's 45th bd.
    
    As for local sports sonics victory was a dead cert anyway but 7th is up
    for grabs.
    
    chose bball over hockey ot - 'saw did I blow it?
    
    and managed to catch a little of old french march music on Stieger /
    Napoleon waterloo until Rumpole (below par) came along.

    It's been reported that Drazen Petrovic died in a car accident today in
    Germany.
    

>    It's been reported that Drazen Petrovic died in a car accident today in
>    Germany.


I heard that on WFAN last night around midnight on my way home.  They said
the report was unconfirmed, but then this morning I heard it was true....


'Saw    

    Yep, lost control on the autoban in wet weather and met a
    tractor-trailer... Will anything good ever happened to the Nets?
    
    REK

    Oh yeah, my P_N.. I was walking down some cement stairs in Key West
    and they gave way. class 4 sprain (a cast for a month) 
    and ligament damage.... What a way to end vacation... Lasted 2 days
    in Paradise staring at the ceiling....
    
    REK

>    Oh yeah, my P_N.. I was walking down some cement stairs in Key West
>    and they gave way. class 4 sprain (a cast for a month) 
>    and ligament damage.... What a way to end vacation... Lasted 2 days
>    in Paradise staring at the ceiling....
    
Sounds like you need to lose some weight there REK  8^)


Seriously, that sucks.  Ankles are touchy joints too, worse than knees 
sometimes.


Let us know how it goes.....

    
    Yabbut I suppose it's better than having yer eyes poked out and needing
    a seeyin aye dawg, yes?
    
    I remain,
    wondering if I should donate Digger to REK's family?
    Kev
    

    
      Roy Campanella died yesterday of a heart attack. He was 71 years old.
    
      A three-time NL MVP, Campy played in 5 World Series. He had a 10-year
      career cut short by an auto accident that left him paralyzed in 1958.
          
      A quintessential Brooklyn Dodger, and Hall of Famer.
    
      We loved you Roy, go in peace.
    
      - acp

    "You gotta have a lot of little boy in you to play this game." -- Campy

I'm putting this in here today for Campy, because part of this is 
voice-over for video of him in his wheelchair......

The metaphor is pretty obvious...


'Saw

-------------------------------------------------------------------------



		Game Called
            by Grantland Rice

	Game called.
	Across the field of play the dusk is come,
	the hour is late, the fight is done 
	and lost or won the player files out through the gate.
	The tumult dies, the cheer is hushed,
	The stands are bare, the park is still,
	But through the night there shines the light
	of home beyond the silent hill.

	Game called.
	Where in the golden light the bugle rolled the reveille
	The shadows creep where night falls deep
	And Taps has called the end of play.
	The game is done, the score is in,	
	The final cheer and jeer have passed,
	But in the night, beyond the fight,
	The player finds his rest at last.

	Game called.
	Upon the field of life the darkness gathers far and wide.
	The dream is done, the score is spun
	That stands forever in the guide.
	Nor victory, nor yet defeat
	is chalked against the player's name,
	But down the roll, the final scroll,
	shows only how he played the game.
	

    And Campy played it the way Jackie Robinson played it.
    
    I was always saddened by the tragedies in his life.  
    
    Lee

    
    	Rest in peace Spanky.............
    
    Claybone
    

    
    	Maybe I oughta clarify .114 a little.  Spanky from the "Our
    	Gang" shows died.  He was 64.
    
    Claybone

    Fred Gwynne died this morning of pancreatic cancer...
    

>    Fred Gwynne died this morning of pancreatic cancer...


Say it ain't so!


8^(    

    Da Judge from "My Cousin Vinny", gonzo.
    
    JaKe
    

    re: Munster - also Officer Muldoon, right??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    Don Drysdale, dead at 56 from an apparent heart attack ...
    
    Hall of Famer, what a year he had in 1962 (Cy Young). Not to mention
    1968 and the streak, with 6 consecutive shutouts !
    
    We'll miss 'ya, Big D ...
    
    2 'Bums in the same week, sad times ...
    
    - acp

>    
>    2 'Bums in the same week, sad times ...
>    


My dad and I were discussing this, and we decided that Campy must've
said "Get Drysdale, we need pitchin' up here".....


8^(

'Saw

>>    2 'Bums in the same week, sad times ...
>>    
>
> My dad and I were discussing this, and we decided that Campy must've
> said "Get Drysdale, we need pitchin' up here".....
    
    And indeed the tragedies and tribulations of "The Boys of Summer"
    continue.  Roger Kahn's book was a mournful retrospective of both the
    great Brooklyn Dodger teams and the personalities themselves, and by
    the early 70s or shortly thereafter many had already died young: Gil 
    Hodges, Jackie Robinson, Billy Cox, Carl Furillo, not even mentioning the
    other misfortunes like Campanella's.  Technically speaking Drysdale was
    not of that bunch from the Boys of Summer as he came along a few years 
    later, but he did play in Brooklyn for a short while and Campanella did 
    catch him.
    
    glenn
     

Sigh, they're all gone now.

Joe DeRita died over the weekend at the Actors Home in Cal.

Joe was the last surviving member of the Stooges.

He starred in most of the Stooges movies.

He died of pneumonia.

He would've been 85 this month.

daryll

>Joe was the last surviving member of the Stooges.
>
>He starred in most of the Stooges movies.

If I remember correctly he was the second Curly, right?

Their movies were mostly in the 50s (I think).....


Too bad....8^(

    Yeah, the real Curly died of a stroke in the late 40s or early 50s.
    
    Too bad, cause the only real Stooges were the original three.  Brother
    (of Moe and Curly) Shemp was O.K., but not the same.
    
    By the time Curly Joe came into the picture, the trio was pretty weak.
    
    (Watch the Stooges Cartoon show to prove it, not "nyuk" but "yuk")

    Did anyone see the footage of Vin Sculley announcing the death of
    broadcast partner Drysdale before the Dodgers' game? Riveting.
    
    Drysdale was part of an old breed of pitcher who fought for the inside
    part of the plate. Terrible irony for him and Campy to die in the same
    week.

    	I always figured Drysdale would be one of those guys that would
    live until he was 90.
    
    				/Don

My favorite line was when Drysdale was talking about when the 
manager gave him the order to intentionally walk a batter.

"I'd just hit him, why waste 4 pitches?"

daryll

    DD, the story as I heard it was the the manager called time and walked
    to the mound, Drysdale was told to put the runner on first and pitch
    to the next batter. Don D nailed him with the first pitch. When Don D
    was asked by the manager why he didn't walk him like he was told, Don D
    said" You didn't tell me to walk him, you told me to put him on...."
    
    REk

    
>>If I remember correctly he was the second Curly, right?
    
    he were the one they called "Curly Joe".
    
    Schnortt Schitt SChlepps
    
    JaKe
    

    It goes like thisa___
    
    Shemp
    Curly
    Shemp(agin)
    Joe
    Curley Joe
    
    Wooowooowoooowooo
    MikeL
    

Drysdale first pitched for the Dodgers in 1956. He played with most
of the "Boys of Summer". Boys of Summer generally referred to the 1955
Dodgers who had Brooklyn's only WS victory.

The Crazy Met

    Kahn in the book mentions that he took the job of covering the Dodgers
    for the 52,53 seasons and the first half of the book details the two
    campaigns focusing mainly on the individuals who played those two
    seasons, but jumping back and forth to events that occurred from 47-56.
    
    I had gotten interested in those dodgers from a book written by George
    Sisler who worked for the dodgers in an around 1950.  Sisler had
    nominated the 1950 dodgers, losers to the whiz kids of granny hamner,
    pudding-head jones and son Dave he of the homerun that pushed philly
    past brooklyn at the end, as 3rd best all time team which I thought
    had a little arrogance.  But he also had profiles of the various
    players.
    
    One thought I have is that they should have kept Robinson at first and
    not had him in such a key postion as 2nd base.  I'm sure a hodges for
    shoendienst trade could have been worked out.  I subscibed to the
    theory that, in order, 2b,ss,cf,catcher have to be defensive
    priorities.  The non pennant winning teams of 48,50,51 had jackie at 2b
    whereas 47,52,53 had him at 1b or 3b.  49 would disprove this theory.
    
    But, I have no doubt that Robinson deserves to be considered one of the
    greatest to ever play.  And Hornsby, another great player, also should
    probably have been shifted out of 2b and over to 3rd or first.
    
    bill

    Pardon my typical conspiratorial attitude, by this whole Drysdale
    found_in_a_hotel_dead_of_a_heart_attack business just don't sound 
    right to me.

    I had a high school acquaintance (not really a friend cause I didn't like 
    him much, but all my high school buds liked him, so I hung wif him at
    times) who was the grandson of Happy Chandler who died a few weeks back.

    The papers read accidental death.  (The Lexington KY paper also boasted
    of twenty professional athletes named as "honorary pall bearer")

    We later found out he blew his brains out in front of an old girlfriend
    (as the story goes) to spite her recent engagement, in his fathers
    condo.  (I don't know if this is the entire truth, but the guys who
    told me had worked for Chans father, president of Ceasers Palace in
    Tahoe)

    His whole family is really interesting, his dad is mentioned in a
    pretty good book called "The Bluegrass Conspiracy"...

    But I digress...

    Anyway, this explanation about Drysdale smacks of the same type of
    washdown...

                                                      
    Pardon my typical conspiratorial attitude
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    I guess.  I'm not sure how any of this business about how a local kid's
    death might have gotten covered up applies to Don Drysdale and the 
    Dodgers, unless you believe that long arm of Happy Chandler, a decent 
    man who as baseball commissioner gave the approval to allow Jackie
    Robinson play, even in death extends once again not only outside of
    Kentucky but across international boundaries to the Montreal coroner's 
    office.  But it was an entertaining story...  ;-)
    
    Hey Bill, you gonna tell us you saw Rogers Hornsby play too now? ;-) 
    Good observation about the defensive abilities of these two, though, 
    that's not commonly known.  Jackie was not a great middle infielder...
    
    glenn
    

    If I had a history of heart problems like Don Drysdale I'm not so sure
    I'd be setting the dead bolt on my hotel room door.  (The media
    reported that the hotel had to cut through it to get in the next day.)
    
    Awfully suspicious.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I guess ACCrisp doesn;t travel a whole lot. It sort of becomes second
    nature to close the dead bolt when you go to sleep. Drysdale had a
    history of heart trouble and no history, at least in the last decade,
    of alchohol or drugs; sounds like a heart attack is a reasonable
    explanation.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    I used to travel plenty and always used the dead bolt.  But then again,
    my ticker's fine, at least as far as I know.
    
    I ain't sayin' the media engaged in yet another coverup.  It's possible
    they didn't, but it's amazing to me that in our supposedly free press
    there's oh-so-many-things that just cain't be said.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    > I ain't sayin' the media engaged in yet another coverup.  It's possible
    > they didn't, but it's amazing to me that in our supposedly free press
    > there's oh-so-many-things that just cain't be said.
    
    Oh, I get it.  The media has no reason to believe that there's even a
    shred of truth to any of your ludicrous hypothesizing, but without a
    single piece of evidence in hand they're not doing their job in just 
    throwing out the "possibility" anyway.  I mean, what the hell, the
    guy's dead anyway, right?  Of course the next time one of these guys
    goes of the wall and writes something you don't agree with on a much
    less serious issue, Media Critic #1 ACChris springs into action...
    
    glenn
    

    > without a single shred of proof
    
    That's pure conjecture on your part Waugamain.  The only thing we know
    is what we've been told (i.e. spoon-fed).  
    
    Until I read a satisfactory answer to the question of why a guy with a
    bad ticker dead bolts his hotel room door, I'll be suspicious, and I
    ain't heard that issue addressed in anything I've read.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

               
>    Until I read a satisfactory answer to the question of why a guy with a
>    bad ticker dead bolts his hotel room door, I'll be suspicious, and I
>    ain't heard that issue addressed in anything I've read.
    
    You won't get an answer because this point that you've raised over the
    innocent use of a deadbolt at night in a big-city hotel has only raised 
    suspicions in *your* mind.  If Drysdale has such a massive (and yes,
    unexpected) heart attack that he can't even get to the phone and hit "0", 
    what does it matter whether his door is locked or not?  Ten hours later, 
    dead is still dead...
    
    glenn
     

    re: .144
    
    Not a bad step of logic glenn (i.e. cain't hit "0", so unbolting dead
    bolt is immaterial) but the fact remains that the he *did* deadbolt his
    door.  Also the "fact" that he didn't dial "0" is a theory and not an
    established fact.  (i.e. if there was foul play involved his phone call
    could've been intercepted or perhaps ignored by_a paid-off hotel
    operator.
    
    
    - SherlockHolmes Chris

	How about the same reason I dead bolt my door, I want the
	security it gives.  Maybe he thought there was a bigger threat
	of someone breaking into the room than of him having a heart
	attack while in the room.

    re: .-1
    
    Possibly.  Possibly.  But factor in Drysdale's mysterious logic with
    the death of virtually the entire cast of The Boys Of Summer and it
    just seems awfully coincidental.  Remember too that the only two (2)
    guys left (Reese and Snyder) have both had health problems.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Chris is right.  I can't believe the guy even left the hospital after
    he was diagnosed with a bum ticker.

    Yo Chrisped, go see JFK and give us you opinion...
    
    REK

    re: JFK
    
    Conspiracy.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Chris -

Preacher Roe is 77 - oldest living member of the "Boys of Summer".

You know, I was wondering if the fine print on them security locks on da
hotel doors say "If you gots a heart condition, don't lock da door..."

JD

    Irregardless of whether foul play was involved in the Drysdale Death
    (based on known facts it cannot, at this time, be called a Homicide
    IMHO) I think we've *all* learned a valuable lesson:
    
    Before dead-bolting your hotel room door at night (when alone) weigh
    the possibly of dying from a heart attack 'cause the EMT's couldn't
    break thru against the chances that somebody will break in and kill you.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

I thought that the hotels could open the dead bolt in case of emergency?  At least
with some security locks, they do have pass keys.  Depends on the type Drysdale had

Latest news says Drysdale was seen near the Hindenberg....

JD

    Chris, you must have arms longer than Satch Sanders, the way you're
    reaching.
    
    Time to hit the "Nexted Unbelievable" key.
    
    Lee

    	Daughter just called to tell me Davey Allison died of injuries
    	suffered yesterday when he crashed his helicopter at
    	Talladega.
    
    	Man, the NASCAR people have sure had a bad year.
    
    	Scott

    
    Damn.  That's three Allisons gone now, I believe.  Davey, his brother, 
    and father Bobby's brother.  You ain't kidding it's been a bad year.
    Davey Allison almost won the race up here in NH this past weekend, and
    then you turn around and he's gone...
    
    glenn
    

    Davey Allison died this morning...
    

    Shepherd won, Allison was third...

    Allison had just gotton his helicopter license a couple of days ago.
    Seems his tail  section caught a fence and crashed.
    
    REK

Article: 1870
From: [email protected] (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.motor,clari.news.interest.people,clari.news.bulletin
Subject: Davey Allison dies after copter crash
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 7:54:49 PDT
 
	BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (UPI) -- Davey Allison, a 19-victory NASCAR driver
from an Alabama family that has seen its share of winning and tragedy,
died Tuesday of a massive head injury from a helicopter crash at the
Talledega Speedway.
	David Smitherman, spokesman for Carraway Methodist Medical Center,
said Allison was pronounced dead at 7:15 a.m. CDT by Dr. Evan Zeiger, a
neurosurgeon who was Allison's attending physician at the hospital.
	``The cause of death was a massive head injury, and he was never able
to regain consiousness once he arrived,'' Smitherman said. ``In the
Allison family spirit of giving, the family has requested that his
organs be donated so that others may live.''
	Allison is survived by his wife, Liz, daughter Krista Marie, 3, and
son Robert Grey, who will turn 2 on July 30; and sisters Carrie Smith
and Bonnie Farr.
	It was the second fatal aerial crash this year involving a top NASCAR
driver. Alan Kulwicki, the 1992 Winston Cup champion, was killed April 1
in a plane crash in Tennessee.
	Allison was taken to the medical center after the crash Monday
suffering from a closed head injury, lung damage and a broken pelvis. A
family spokesman said he underwent surgery to remove fluid build-up in
the skull.
	Ironicially, Allison had recently purchased the Hughes 369 helicopter
and had just been cleared to fly it on Sunday. Allison and former short
track stock car racer Red Farmer were flying to Talladega Superspeedway
on Monday to watch former Winston Cup driver Neil Bonnett test a car for
an apparent comeback to NASCAR racing.
	``Neil Bonnett was in the garage working on his car, he heard Davey
come in and heard the crash,'' said Robert Yates, Allison's team owner.
``The tail hit the fence and it (the helicopter) violently flipped and
turned upside down.''
	Allison and Farmer were brought to the Birmingham hospital shortly
before 5 p.m. EDT Monday. On Tuesday Farmer remained in the intensive
care unit at Carraway, listed in critical but stable condition and was
alert and responsive. He suffered a broken clavicle and broken rib.
	Allison was a member of Alabama's famed racing family that has
experienced the ultimate highs and lows of racing. Allison's brother
Clifford was killed at age 27 last August during practice at the
Michigan International Speedway.
	His father, Bobby Allison, suffered a head injury in a career-ending
crash at Pocona in 1988, the year he won the Daytona 500 for the third
time. Davey Allison also crashed at Pocono on July 19, 1992, and was
lucky to escape with a broken right wrist and separated shoulder after
his car flipped 10 times. 
	Davey's uncle, Donnie Allison, suffered a serious head injury when he
crashed at Charlotte Motor Speedway in the 1981 World 600.
	Allison finished third in a race in New Hampshire Sunday and is
seventh in money winnings this year with $513,585. He won the Pontiac
Excitement 400 at Richmond, Va., March 7.
	Allison entered the year with 18 NASCAR Winston Cup victories. He won
the Daytona 500 in 1992, following in the footsteps of his father.

Article: 14760
From: [email protected] (BRUCE MARTIN)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.top
Subject: Tragedy strikes racing's Allisons again
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 19:28:53 PDT
 
	CHARLOTTE, N.C. (UPI) -- For the second time in less than one year,
the Allison family of NASCAR Winston Cup racing has been struck with
tragedy.
	And for the second time in less than four months, the sport of stock
car racing is reeling after a catastrophe has struck one of its
brightest stars.
	The reaction to Monday's helicopter crash at Talladega Superspeedway
that left Davey Allison in very critical condition in a coma with closed
head injuries, lung damage and a broken pelvis was met with disbelief
from current and former drivers of the stock car circuit.
	Allison, 32, was piloting a helicopter with former racer and family
friend Red Farmer when it crashed at the 2.66-mile superspeedway located
in east-central Alabama. The two were flying to the speedway to watch
family friend Neil Bonnett, a former NASCAR Winston Cup driver, test a
race car at the high-banked facility.
	On April 1, defending NASCAR Winston Cup champion Alan Kulwicki was
killed when the private plane he was a passenger in crashed near
Bristol, Tenn.
	The Allison family has tasted tragedy before. After Bobby Allison
became the oldest driver ever to win a Daytona 500 in 1988, his career
ended in a crash at Pocono International Raceway in June of that year.
Allison suffered severe head injuries from the crash, and has made
tremendous progress since that time, serving as a NASCAR Winston Cup
team owner.
	Davey Allison suffered a broken right wrist and separated shoulder
when his Ford Thunderbird rolled 10 times in a crash at Pocono on July
19, 1992. One week later, Allison started the DieHard 500 at Talladega
Superspeedway.
	Allison's younger brother, Clifford, was killed Aug. 13, 1992 after
crashing at Michigan International Speedway in practice for a NASCAR
Busch Grand National race.
	Davey's uncle, Donnie Allison, also suffered a serious head injury
when he crashed at Charlotte Motor Speedway in the 1981 World 600.
	``I'm hoping to hear better tomorrow,'' Ford driver Mark Martin said.
``Everybody is praying tonight. Miracles do happen -- medical and
otherwise.
	``He may wake up tomorrow and be fine. That is what we are praying
for.''
	Cale Yarborough is a former three-time Winston Cup champion and
winner of 83 races in his long career. He often feuded with Davey's dad,
Bobby, when the two were competing in long and storied racing careers.
Yarborough, a current team owner, feels a great deal of sorrow at the
shocking news of the latest tragedy to strike the Allison family.
	``It's a terrible situtation,'' Yarborough said. ``It seems like when
it rains, it pours. I feel so sorry for the Allison family, but I would
feel sorry for anyone that had this happen to them. I feel sorry for the
Allison family because they have had such a tough time, lately. My heart
really goes out to them.
	``We grew up in the racing business -- Bobby, Donnie and I. I've known
the Allison kids their whole lives. Even though we had some fierce
competition and good racing, we are still good friends and it really
hits home.''
	Buddy Baker, a former NASCAR Winston Cup driver, expressed shock over
the irony of the head injury to Allison.
	``We're all in shock,'' Baker said. ``Donnie Allison had a head
injury, Bobby Allison had a head injury that ended his career, Clifford
Allison died of a head injury and now Davey.
	``Davey is a friend of people. I remember him when he was a kid
sitting in the infield. We traveled together and did some races together
in the Midwest. I was in the airplane with him and he was a good pilot.
	``It just doesn't seem right.''
	When Donnie Allison heard the news of the latest adversity to strike
his family, it was more than he could take.
	``I'm doing about as well as can be expected,'' Donnie said. ``I
talked to Bobby a while ago and Bobby is taking it about as well as
could be expected. We're not speculating right now and I don't know what
to expect.
	``I'm sitting here on pins and needles. Everytime the phone rings, I
jump.''
--
This, and all articles in this news hierarchy are Copyright 1993 by the wire 
service or information provider and licensed to Clarinet Communications 
Corp.  for distribution.  Except for free samples, only paid subscribers 
may access these articles.  Any unauthorized access, reproduction or 
transmission is strictly prohibited.  We will reward the first provider of 
information that helps us stop violators of this copyright.  Send reports 
to [email protected].  (Note that while we do like to know about people
who do the odd reposting to USENET without permission, rewards are not
always provided for reports on such postings, since they're usually obvious.)

    
    I wanna know how Jack Ruby locked the deadbolt after he left Drysdale's
    room.  
    
    Did you know that Davey Allison, Stevie Ray Vaughn, and Vick Morrow
    were all seen on the gravelly road at noon today?
    
    brews
    

Brews,

what about Elvis??

The Crazy Met

      Elvis lives with Bigfoot.  Don't youze guys keep up on this stuff?
    
      Actually,  having Davey in there so soon is in poor taste!!  May a
    fly be in your soup!
    
      Tim

    
    
    re poor taste:
    
    As the arbiter of good taste, I asked JD if it was OK to add Deavey to
    the list.   He OK'd it and Jake 2nd it.
    
    
    Brews

    JaKe seems to be on vacation, he hasn't been around in notes or via
    email all week.
    
    Come up with something better, Brews.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

I was never contacted by Brews.  I haven't even heard a Davey Allison joke yet!

JD

> I haven't even heard a Davey Allison joke yet!

A sure sign that JaKe is away.

The Crazy Met

    
    JD, you shoulda known I was joking when I said that you were the
    arbiter of good taste.  We're gonna have to work on this sarcasm thing
    before you leave us and go off into the big world by yourself.  8^)
    
    Is Mac moving stuff around again?  I'm rereading stuff.
    
    brews

Brews~

I know that.  And yeah, Mac is moving around stuff....

JD

I'm shocked to see gambling going on in here (re: Mac moving notes)

The Crazy Met

    
    
         I got a Davey Allison Joke but I was waiting for Jake to get back
    to run it by him first. :-)
    
    
    Chappy

    
    I thought I heard that the organist for the Boston Garden died.  Was
    his name <mumble> Kiley?
    
    Kev
    

    I never heard him talk, so I don't know if he's called Mumble.  I
    thought his name was John.  But, then again, I never saw his take a
    leak, either.
    
    Lee

    "Mumble" - Sounds like a character from either Dick Tracy or Batman.

    Jeez...  WHen you guys decide to run into the idiot_extreme zone,
    you really fly!   ;-)

    S.I., (and from what I had heard after Don_D's death) was that he had
    some MINOR heart issues that were believed to have been treated, and
    he was believed to be in great condition.

    I just wondered if there wasn't some cush given as to the details of
    his death...

�    Jeez...  WHen you guys decide to run into the idiot_extreme zone,
�    you really fly!   ;-)
    
    Hey, leave us out of this.  The conspiracy theory was strictly from
    ACChris.

    
>>> I haven't even heard a Davey Allison joke yet!

>>A sure sign that JaKe is away.

>>The Crazy Met
    
    Hey, I resemble that remark!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

Just a couple of corrections:


	1. Rusty Wallace won the race at Loudon, Mark Martin was
	   second, and Davey Allison was third.

	2. Davey Allison had his helicopter license for almost a 
	   year, but had only had the helicopter for a couple of
	   weeks, and had only been cleared to fly that particular
	   one for a few days.



'Saw

	       o o   	       o o 
	      o * o           o * o
               o o             o o
                        >
                         >
			  >
                           >
                       >>>>>>

            \                      /
             \                    /
              \                  /
               \                /
                \______________/

Kev -

Congrats!

JD

Kev

Not bad for an old fart - congrats!

=Bob=

    Yeah, I used a discarded one-eyed trouser snake I found in the dumpster
    
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    beeming
    Kev
    

    
    
          CONGRATS KEV :-)
    
    
             Mines due the 25th of Jan. and yours???
    
    
    Chappy
    
             

      Congrats!   Have fun!!  I'm all done with 3 of my own.
    
      Tim

congrats!

Man, that's all I can say, and you know when the 'Saw is at a loss for
words.......


congrats!

'Saw

    This don't belong in the RIP note... congrats man...
    

    re-1
    
      Have you ever had kids?  Sometimes they drive ya to it, if ya know
    what I mean;-)
    
      Tim

yeah Kev!! Great news!!

The Crazy Met

when is the kid due??

>                 -< Well thats two REAL MEN of SPROTS... :-) >-

            <<< Note 89.192 by FRETZ::HEISER "light without heat" >>>
              -< when you have more than 4 children, let me know >-

		Or when you have three at once..


		Kevin

    
    
         This is my fourth Mr Heiser....:-)
    
    
    So there!!!!!

    
    Congrats and Chappy!  Who are the fathers?  8^)
    
    brews

    
    
          I don't know but I wish they would start babysitting. :-)
    
    
    Chappy

    Of a four year old who has outgrown tugging at the pant leg, I say
    congrats and keep them coming.
    
    Said 4yr old, Phil, has a Michael Jordan hoop that he likes to dunk on
    and an abiding interest in Winston cup series cars.
    
    And tb wasn't wrong about Montross, ACC and I both overrated him and he
    was eaten up by Webber.  Snif came out a winner and your gloating,
    Chris has to be grudgingly put up with only to make the next inevitable
    tarheel disaster all the sweeter
    
    big-east bill

      4 kids?   So you live next to the local nut house eh?
    
      As to the fathers babysitting,  child support payments would work
    better;^)
    
      Tim

    Congrats Kev, and congrats to yer wifee, too.  
    
    Guess she took something serious that you was pokin' in fun.
    
    (8^)
    
    JaKe
    

Why am I thinking that this crew is sports is probably gonna be throwing
the firsted ever baby shower for man sometime within the next nine months?????

    Too late, 'Saw.  Someone threw a baby shower for a man up here at NIO
    last year.  A fellow engineer, Mark Langevin, had one for him.  Lots of
    fun taking cheap shots at him.
    
    There should be more of these for expecting Pops.  It's a good time to
    rag on someone in fun.
    
    Lee

    
    A shower????
    
    Sheesh, youze guys are too kind.....
    
    Cain we make a deal that nobody brings a bar o' soap though?
    
    I remain,
    waiting for the pickles and ice cream requests
    Kev
    

    
    >>I remain,
    >>waiting for the pickles and ice cream requests
    >>Kev
    
    When my oldest kid was born, it wasn't pickles and ice cream fer Mrs.
    JaKe, it was Dairy Queen Peanut Buster Parfaits.  Being we had to both
    go, I'd end up having one too.  We both put 40 pounds on, and she lost
    most of it in the delivery room, whilst I'm still carrying mine around
    and around and around.
    
    JaKe
    

    I thought it was Cheeze Whiz...
    

    re-.1
    
    You wouldn't be one of those who believe that anybody who has LESS
    children than you aren't a "complete" family, or don't have the same
    problems you do or cain't understand where you're coming from as far as
    your own kids, now would you Mike???
    
    
    Inquiring mindless and all that barf
    
    JaKe
    
    p.s. Kev, get used to barfing, cause once that morning sickness hits,
    it'll be worse each morning than a roomfull of drunks hurling lasted
    night's pizza.
    
    JaKe
    

    Geez JaKe thanks for being so forthright. Actually not all woman
    have morning sickness when pregnant. My sister-in-law was one of the
    lucky ones.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Mrs. JaKe had NONE with the firsted two kids, but with Nathan, she had
    morning sickness 23 hrs 59 minutes a day for 8-1/2 months.
    
    Tweren't a pretty sight, if'n ya know whut I mean.
    
    JaKe
    

>    You wouldn't be one of those who believe that anybody who has LESS
>    children than you aren't a "complete" family, or don't have the same
>    problems you do or cain't understand where you're coming from as far as
>    your own kids, now would you Mike???
    
    Not at all Jake.  Actually, 1 of the 2 fathers-to-be in here said them
    2 are the real men in here (in jest of course) since they're wives are
    expecting.  That's why I entered my jab since my quiver is more than
    full.

    Morning sickness can get worse, My wife spent was brought to the
    hospitol 4 different times for Dehydration, she could keep nothing
    down (litteraly) from month 2-9, it was a very difficult time.
    
    								MaB

    
    So far (KOW=knock on wood) there's been no projectile stuff.
    
    When she was carrying Greg, she never had the MS either.  I guess I
    picked a good breeder!
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    a decent breeder myself (or was it the new postman?)
    Kev
    

>    I remain,
>    a decent breeder myself (or was it the new postman?)
>    Kev


Dan'l wasn't visiting was he?    

Parenting, Volume 3                        EASYNET_CONFERENCES #1063

File Name: DLOACT::PARENTING_V3
DNS Name:  EASYNOTE.CONFS.PERSONAL.PARENTING

Title:  Parenting
Notice: READ 1.27 BEFORE WRITING

Moderator: CSC32::DUBOIS
Created: 30-MAY-1990 15:48              Revised: 15-APR-1992 12:05
Topic Notes:    1361                    Total Entries:   23841

    

    
    Well folks, it looks like we successfully sucked MtM into this little
    "tangents-R-us" (tm?)!
    
    The rabbit died, so it seemed (to me anyway) appropriate to use the
    R.I.P note.  Then we did our usual thang of not sticking to the title.
    
    HOWEVER, I wonder if there has ever been a case where a mod moved his
    OWN not to the right title?????????????
    
    Doesn't -.1 belong in the "Related Notesfile"?????????
    
    I say "STRING HIM UP!!!!!  LET"S HAVE A TRIAL!!!!!!
    
    I remain,
    ready to call Hawk and have him admininister a good pee-pee whacking!
    Kev
    

> "tangents-R-us" (tm?)!

yeah I better tm the sucker.

The Crazy Met

>     I say "STRING HIM UP!!!!!  LET"S HAVE A TRIAL!!!!!!


Forget the trial.

The Crazy Met

Once again we have sad news in this topic.  It's being covered pretty 
well in our Celtics topic, but I just wanted to pop this in here:



For Reggie:


	To an Athlete Dying Young
	-------------------------
	
	The time you won your town the race
	We chaired you through the market-place;
	Man and boy stood cheering by,
	And home we brought you shoulder-high.

	To-day, the road all runners come,
	Shoulder-high we bring you home,
	And set you at your threshold down,
	Townsman of a stiller town.

	Smart lad, to slip betimes away,
	From fields where glory does not stay
	And early though the laurel grows
	It withers quicker than the rose.

	Eyes the shady night has shut
	Cannot see the record cut,
	And silence sounds no worse than cheers
	After earth has stopped the ears.

	Now you will not swell the rout
	Of lads that wore their honors out,
	Runners whom renown outran
	And the name died before the man.

	So set, before its echoes fade,
	The fleet foot on the sill of shade,
	And hold to the low lintel up
	The still-defended challenge-cup.

	And round that early-laurelled head
	Will flock to gaze the strengthless dead,
	And find unwithered on its curls
	The garland briefer than a girl's.

			-- A. E. Housman (1859-1936)

More info...
    
    
Article 7597 of clari.news.urgent:
Xref: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com clari.news.law.investigation:2831 clari.sports.basketball:9435 clari.local.illinois:10174 clari.news.interest.people:10532 clari.news.urgent:7597
Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!uunet!looking!clarinews
From: [email protected] (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.news.law.investigation,clari.sports.basketball,clari.local.illinois,clari.news.interest.people,clari.news.urgent
Subject: Michael Jordan's father shot to death
Keywords: legal investigations, legal, basketball, men's professional,
	people, human interest
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 93 7:10:20 PDT
Location: illinois, north carolina
ACategory: usa
Slugword: us-jordandad-1stldwritethru
Priority: urgent
Format: breaking
ANPA: Wc: 325/329; Id: z2499; Sel: xxnli; Adate: 8-13-N/A
Approved: [email protected]
Codes: &nlibxx., &skpbil., &nhpbnc., tncn....
Note: (complete writethru -- Michael Jordan's father shot to death)
Lines: 32

	FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. (UPI) -- Cumberland County authorities Friday
confirmed the badly decomposed body of James Jordan, the father of
Chicago Bulls star Michael Jordan, was found in a creek in
Bennettsville, S.C.
	``The body was confirmed to be that of Mr. Jordan early this morning.
'' Cumberland County Sheriff Morris Bedsole said.
	The badly decomposed body was found Aug. 3 -- the same day the elder
Jordan's car was found stripped and abandoned in a wooded area near
Fayetteville, N.C.
	Authorities used dental records to identify the badly decomposed body
that had been listed as a ``John Doe'' since it was found 10 days
earlier.
	Authorities said Jordan, 57, had been shot and his body dumped in the
creek in a rural area.
	Jordan disappeared July 22 while on his way to Charlotte, N.C., after
attending a friend's funeral Wilmington, N.C. Jordan lives in Charlotte
with his wife.
	``July 22, he left Charlotte going to Wilmington to go to a funeral,''
Sheriff Morris Bedsole said. ``We found he went to the funeral.''
	The family filed a missing person report Thursday and the FBI was
called into the case because the case crossed state lines. Authorities
said the Jordan periodically would leave without telling his family
where he was going, but it usually was only for a couple days at a time.
	They hadn't felt the need to report Mr. Jordan missing,`` Union Count
Sheriff Frank McGuirt said.
	Jordan's $45,000 red Lexus 400 had been stripped and vandalized and
was found hidden in a wooded area, Bedsole said.
	Bedsole said the car actually was found a week ago but was not linked
to Jordan until Thursday. The car's license plate was missing.
	``Tests were conducted to determine the presence of blood in the car.
The area of the car shows no evidence of a struggle,'' Capt. Art Binder
said.


    

On this day, Elvis Presley *AND* Babe Ruth died, though not in the same
year.

Makes you wonder if'n anyone ever saw them together.

TTom

    He played pretty well once Bono got hurt lasted night...
    

		Hey!!!! Did somebody mention that Mattingly
		has only hit .200 since August 20th????

    
    	The first man to pole vault over 17 feet, John Pennel, died
    at the age of 53 yesterday of cancer.
    
    
    R.I.P. John
    
    Kev
    

    
    At home yesterday in a Chicagoan suburb, at the age of 10 years;
    
    
    
    
    
    
    	Spud McKenzie - the famous "Bud Lite" original party animal who,
    for those who didn't know, was not a he-dawg but a she-dawg.
    
    
    
    I remain,
    wondering if they'd accept Digger_the_Goat_Dawg as a replacement?
    Kev
    

    Damned mutt died from a kidney infection.  Probably got it when
    somebody left her in the house, forgot to put down fresh newspapers,
    went out drinking and met someone and slept over/on them.  Damned dog
    is home having to go wee-wee(Bud Light causes this) and holding it and
    holding it and holding it, finally took a squirt behind the couch, but
    the infection was already started.
    
    Anybody fer a dog burger???
    
    JaKe
    

      Just to think that the girls they used in those commercials played
    2nd fiddle to a dog, an ugly dog at that!

Article: 14544
From: [email protected] (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.misc,clari.local.massachusetts
Subject: Noted sports attorney Bob Woolf dies
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 12:27:28 PST
 
	BOSTON (UPI) -- Noted sports attorney Bob Woolf died Monday night at
his home. A spokesman at Woolf's office said the attorney and veteran
agent died in his sleep. He was 65.
	Woolf represented a number of top athletes in the Boston area,
including former Celtics stars John Havlicek and Larry Bird, former Red
Sox star Carl Yastrzemski and former Boston College star Doug Flutie as
well as former Notre Dame star Rocket Ismail.
	There was no announcement regarding the cause of death.

    
    	Alton Grizzard.  Former QB for Navy died at age 24.  He was
    	shot by a fellow officer (allegedly).  Some kind of a love
    	triangle...
    
    Claybone

    Love triangle?? I heard he was one of two Navy officers shot and
    killed.
    
    Alton Grizzard, Navy QB, 1987-1990.
    
    MikeL
    

Hank Gathers cousin, Joseph Marable, died after collapsing while playing
basketball. The coroner's report stated that death was because of natural
causes but did not state the exact cause of death.

TTom

    
    		EX-Navy quarterback and track star killed:
    
    	Alton Grizzard, a former star quarterback for Navy and a former
    female Navy track star were shot to death Wednesday.  The gunman then
    shot himself to death.
    
    	Authorities said the killings took place at the U.S. Naval 
    Amphibious Base at Coronado, Califorinia.  The unidentified gunman, a 
    fellow officer, shot Grizzard, 24, and Kerry O'Neill, 21, at 1:45 a.m.
    PST, said a spokesman for the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD.
    
    	The shootings happened in O'Neill's room at the base bachelor
    officers quarters, which houses men and women.  Coronado police Lt.
    Bill Abel said there were no signs of a struggle or break-in.  He said
    investigators believe the gunman had a relationship with O'Neill and
    the two had argued Tuesday night.
                                     

�    	Alton Grizzard, a former star quarterback for Navy and a former
�    female Navy track star were shot to death Wednesday.  
    
    Wow!  Navy had a female track star as a QB?  How come I never heard of
    this before?

    
    	I noticed that little sentence structure problem too.  I 
    	entered the article as it appeared in my newspaper.
    
    Claybone

What a difference a comma can make, eh?

�What a difference a comma can make, eh?

Or do you mean:

What, a difference a comma can make, eh?

|�What a difference a comma can make, eh?
|
|Or do you mean:
|
|What, a difference a comma can make, eh?

No, I definitely, for real, meant, that is, to say:

	What a difference a comma can make, eh?

    Montana dental floss tycoon, Frank Zappa, of prostate cancer.  He was
    52.

The world lost a musical innovator, an outspoken opponent of censorship,
and an all around nice guy.  (I know, I had a friend who knew him)....

RIP Frank......


'Saw

    :^(

    My favorite song was dyna-MO-hum. 
    Best album cover/idea was Sheik-yer-booty. It helped me survive disco.
    We'll miss ya Frank. Rest in peace.

 I had the pleasure of seeing Frank twice. He came through Boston with a
 30 piece band and was awesome. Came back 6 months later with a 5 piece
 band and just jammed those licks. even better than the awesome first
 show....no doubt he'll be missed...

 mike

    
    
    Yabbut he had a (ahem) "different perspective" on giving kids names.
    To whit - Dzweebil (or something like that) and Moon Unit.
    
    hth,
    I remain,
    forgetting what the name of his band was though....
    Kev
    

  The Mothers Of Invention

Dweezil
Moon Unit
Ahmet (after Ertegon, the record producer)

dr.a

Never heard a Zappa tune that I liked but He'll be missed for his outspoken
stances against censorship and making fun of the people that wanted to enshrine
Tipper Gore and take her ideas to the extreme.

Metz

    You mean Tipper is a conservative-fundamentalist?  Must make for some
    interesting evenings when the Gores and Clintons get together.

I loved his quote that the music of Richard Wagner caused more deaths
than heavy metal.   He went on to say that we don't label Wagner's music
with a big "M", as being suitable for megalomaniacs...

I had a friend that sat next to Zappa for a flight from NY to LA.  My buddy
was also a musician (a professional drummer) and he was convinced that
Zappa was a genius.   I think he was too.

Musically, he was out there, but if you give a good listen, and if you
know anything at all about modern music, you can see where a lot of
Zappa's influences are.  He pushed the envelope, most definitely, and
will be missed.....


'Saw

Anybody wanna feel old?  

It was fifteen (15) years ago today that John Lennon was killed.

�Title:  Er, I thoughtb he died in 1980, no?
 
Hmm, I just heard on the radion that it was the 15th aniversary of his death. 
Maybe they were wrong - it was WBCN and Mark Parenteau no less.

=Bob=

    I remember watching the Pats and the Fish on MNF when I first heard the
    news.  And it was in the early '80s because I was a newlywed when he
    was shot.

    re. Anniversary
    
    Defintely the 13th.  December 8, 1980.
    
    - Bob

�    I remember watching the Pats and the Fish on MNF when I first heard the
�    news.  
    
    Yabbut you always seem to get the news late anyway.

    I thought is was '78, too.  I thought I remembered being in High School
    when it happened, and grad-i-ated in Spring of '80...
    
    Oh well, the ole memory is running low on disk space...

    When John died, several songs off his new album "Double Fantasy" were
    doing quite well on the charts.  "Double Fantasy" was released in the
    Fall of 1980.
    
    Think I'll go home tonight and play some old tunes...
    
    - Rope

    Nope it was '80.. freshman year at dear ol' RPI...
    

    Definitely 1980 - Sophmore year of college.
    
    I remember the news coming through at about midnight-1AM, going to
    sleep waking
    the next morning and hearing the news again and then it finally sank
    in.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Yeah, I thought it was more around 1980, too....twas playing pool and
    drinking and womanizin' in a local bar when the news came on and you
    coulda heerd a pin drop in the place fer a while.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    
        So what you guys are saying it was 80?

Absolutely 1980.  Girlfriend (now wife) had just moved in.
First (and maybe last) MNF game she ever watched.

dr.a

    Chappy,
    
    Your genius continues to amaze me :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    I heard WBCN's Mark Parenteau say this was the 13th anniversary of
    Lennon's death.

Parenteau also claims to have not yet reached his 30th birthday.

dr.a

    1980?  I was in Jr. High then and don't really remember him.
    
    
    Gin

    I don't listen to BCN.
    
    Mark_for_Hawk

>    I don't listen to BCN.
    
>    Mark_for_Hawk


	Atleast were talkin' about BCN in the right note.....

 mike

    
    
         Thanks TCW that means alot coming from you!
    
    
    
    
    Chappy

Bradley J??? Isn't he Scotty Wainwright aka Mark P.'s boyfriend??? I'm pretty
sure that's how he got his start....

I'd rather have silence than an INFINITY radio station...

mike

    Format: regular
    ANPA: Wc: 106/98; Id: z3472; Src: upi; Sel: xxsfp; Adate: 12-14-N/A;  
    Ver: 0/1;
    V: update
    Approved: [email protected]
    Codes: &sfprxx., &nbtrxx., &nhtrtx., xxxxxxxx
    Lines: 10
    
    	HOUSTON (UPI) -- Authorities say Houston Oilers defensive lineman Jeff
    Alm apparently shot and killed himself early Tuesday after the car he
    was driving crashed, killing a passenger.
    	KHOU-TV reported that an unidentified male passenger was thrown
    from
    Alm's vehicle when it crashed on a freeway entrance ramp west of
    downtown Houston at about 1:45 a.m.
    	The station reported that police believe Alm became distraught over
    the accident and what had happened to his companion.
    	Alm, 25, was a four-year NFL veteran from Notre Dame.
    

    
    RIP Don Earle at age 64... TV voice of the Broons during their
    halcyon days; Orr &Co.
    
    MikeL
    

      Does this make #3?

    Nah,
    
    Don was a sick main fer the last couple and it was expected.
    
    MikeL
    

    I don't know, but a fairly famous horse trainer was kicked in the head
    by a loose horse at Santa Anita the day after the Oiler died.  Last I
    heard he was hemorrhaging and it was doubtful he'd make it.

    DeWayne Lukas' son.  /Don probably knows...
    

    I think the trainer that got kicked was Wayne Lukas' son.
    
    Not sure though,
    Mike

    Harry Nilsson, dead at 52.
    
    JaKe
    

    GoodBye to the Space_Man.

    Heard about Nilsson via Comic Relief...

    David Stone, former software VP at DEC at 51 from cancer.
    
    Mark.

    The PA announcer from the Red Sox.
    
    Now mumum mumble mumble Red Sox, drone drone drone drone.
    
    Won't be the same.
    
    Murph

    Sherm Feller..........
    
    REK

    Part of charm of sox and something shared by very old and very young
    
    

    RIP Bud Wilkinson, father of the 47-game win streak, but more
    importantly the gentleman coach's ideal... 
    
    glenn
    

    
    Neil Bonnett, NASCAR driver, of massive head injuries, at Daytona ...
    
    - acp

I forgot to put this in all week, but the guy who played Otis the drunk
on Andy Griffith's show died late last week.


'Saw

    Heard it was one of Opie's teenage sons nailed him in a drive by
    shooting!!!
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    	I heard that Floyd the barber killed him in an argument over
    aunt Bea.
    
    				/Don

    
    >> <<< Note 89.296 by DZIGN::ROBICHAUD "TonyaHarding-TrailerParkSkank" >>>

    >>	I heard that Floyd the barber killed him in an argument over
    >>aunt Bea.
    
    Nah, she's been daid fer about two years, unless they got her
    "preserved" over in the cooler at the butcher shop and they was arguing
    over who's week it is to check her internal temperature.
    
    JaKe
    

    HAHAHAHA glenn.. mebbe Schowalter's takin' the bus with him..
    
    MikeL
    

    RIP Arnold Cream, Aka Jersey Joe Walcott, former heavyweight boxing
    champ. Walcott defeated Ezzard Charles in 1951 to take a title that
    had eluded him when he lost twice in close matches with Joe Louis in
    the late 1940's.
    
    MikeL
    

RIP.

	Died while filming a movie in Mexico? today.

	Details sketchy, but it's being reported by publicist..

	zamboni

    BTW - he was only 43 and probably the world's most lovable Cub fan. 
    Pretty successful despite his taste in baseball teams.

    Bigger trhan Bill Murray?
    

    I don't know, but he's another success story with no taste in baseball
    teams.  Do you realize Cubs' fans have never seen their team play a
    World Series game on TV?

    Murray and Candy both own or have owned minor-league baseball teams.
    They are (er, were) both legit fans...
    
    What's with this obsession over only being a fan of PC-approved sports
    franchises, Heiser?  You know that Diamondback entourage ain't going to
    be winning a damn thing until about the year 2005, at the earliest, right?
    
    glenn
    

    He died of a heart attack.  Probably from all the cholesterol in that
    "big 96er" he ate.
    
    JaKe
    

>     -< Please validate team allegiances at FRETZ::HEISER; thank you...  >-
    
    glad to see you come clean, Glen.

>    Murray and Candy both own or have owned minor-league baseball teams.
>    They are (er, were) both legit fans...
    
    I didn't say they weren't legit.  I said their taste in MLB teams
    stank!
    
>    What's with this obsession over only being a fan of PC-approved sports
>    franchises, Heiser?  
    
    I didn't know I had one, but thanks for pointing it out.
    
    >You know that Diamondback entourage ain't going to
>    be winning a damn thing until about the year 2005, at the earliest, right?
    
    Well an 8 year drought is certainly more welcome than an 45+ year one
    (which was the last time that stanky cheese team was in the WS).

    A man is dead and all you can do is bust on his baseball team!  ;-)
    Jest funnin' you, MikeH...
    
    glenn
    

    well if you ask my co-workers, I was bustin' on them yesterday too. 
    And the day before that...
    
    On the other hand, the ChiSox are rumored to be unhappy in FL and may
    move their spring training here.  Then it would be a Chicago-lovers
    paradise.
    
    BBRRrr!
    Mike

     >>  I thought he died in New Mexico?
    
    	Nope, wasn't here.

|
|     >>  I thought he died in New Mexico?
|    
|    	Nope, wasn't here.
|

Article in Saturday's paper had in on location in Mexico -- the name
Durango keeps popping up in my memory....

He was 43.


'Saw

    Durango Colorado and Durango Mexico. It was in Durango Mexico where
    Candy died in his sleep.

  >> Durango Colorado and Durango Mexico. It was in Durango Mexico where
  >> Candy died in his sleep.

     It was a Durango 99 that Alex and his Droogs took on their ill-fated
     crime spree.
    

      Louis Billups (ex-Bengal) died in a car accident.
    
      Tj

Children's author Richard Scarry died this morning.

I'm only aware of one title that he wrote ("Are You My Mother"), but
I've seen lots of his books.

With Dr. Suess gone and Richard Scarry, it might be time for the Chainsaw
to start writing children's books....


'Saw

�Children's author Richard Scarry died this morning.
�
�I'm only aware of one title that he wrote ("Are You My Mother"), but
�I've seen lots of his books.
    
    Unless he did it under a penname, I don't think he wrote that one.  The
    name Eastman rings a bell as the author.  Scarry's books had animal
    characters like Lowly Worm, and a pig and cat detective team.  There
    was always alot of stuff going on on the pages.
    
�With Dr. Suess gone and Richard Scarry, it might be time for the Chainsaw
�to start writing children's books....
    
    As a concerned parent, nothing personal, but don't give up the day
    job...

What a bummer...

PD Eastman wrote "Are You My Mother", not Scarry.

Scarry wrote a number of parables, which are nothing short of wonderful 
for older kids and adults.  Titles that come to mind are:

	"Where the Sidewalk Ends"
	"A Light in the Attic"
	"The Missing Piece"

Since my kids aren't old enough for these stories yet, my memory of them is 
fuzzy, but I remember them being poignant, touching, and funny.

RIP

=Bob=

Oh, okay, so I screwed up.  My heart was in the right place.


'Saw

	Check out his "Best Ever" vidoes.  My kids love them.

	Kevin

>Scarry wrote a number of parables, which are nothing short of wonderful 
>for older kids and adults.  Titles that come to mind are:

>        "Where the Sidewalk Ends"
>        "A Light in the Attic"
>        "The Missing Piece"

Sorry Bob, but you're talking about Shel Silverstein there.  My favorite 
Silverstein book is "The Loving Tree".

Many of Richard Scarry's books were entitled "The Best xxxxxxx Ever".

Clay

re .322

Shooot - yer right.

Sorry.

    
    
    	My 2 year old daughter loves Richard Scarry's Word book. Its about
    1000 pages and 50 lbs of rodents and assorted woodland critters eating
    breakfast, going to school, and playing. Gawd it is a frightening
    sight, when she's comes dragging the book behind her at bedtime. All
    the basketball games have already reached halftime before the book is
    finished!!!!
    
    JimH :-)
    

Heard on the radio a while ago that George Peppard died.

He was on the TV series "The A Team" and also in the movie
"Breakfast at Tiffany's", among other things.

He had pneumonia I think....


'Saw

>> He had pneumonia I think....


  this is how most AIDS' victims go out. Not that I want to start rumors
 or anyhting I just felt I'd be World News Weekly to it........

 ;^)

    I wondered the same thing Mike...
    

>  this is how most AIDS' victims go out. Not that I want to start rumors
> or anyhting I just felt I'd be World News Weekly to it........

     I saw him in a so-so made-for-tv movie recently and he had a pretty
     good size plate-stacker on 'em...not to mention the 9.50 x 17.5
     truck tire for a wasteline. I doubt it was aids. If it was, he went
     real fast.

     Tracy? Nelson played his daughter in the movie.

     Neal

    Sounds like it was more due to the fact that he was a chain smoker for
    a long time...
    

>    Sounds like it was more due to the fact that he was a chain smoker for

Man, it's a bitch to smoke them chains.  Do you have any idea what
molten metal does to your bronchial tubes?


If George had been a real man, he woulda just blown up.  I hope, at
least, that he was punching Death in the throat all the way.....


'Saw    

    Pepard had lung cancer.... He had surgery in Philadelphia about six
    months ago to remove a huge tumor....
    
    Dennis Faust
    

>
>    Pepard had lung cancer.... He had surgery in Philadelphia about six
>    months ago to remove a huge tumor....
>    


Cool, then according to the Dennis Leary theory of macho, he went out
in a manly kind of way.....


'Saw    

    George Peppard is dead.  He didn't fall on his head...
    

|    George Peppard is dead.  He didn't fall on his head...


Classic....    

Article: 8566
From: [email protected] (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football,clari.local.louisiana
Subject: Saints GM Finks Dead At 66
Date: Mon, 9 May 94 8:50:41 PDT
 
	NEW ORLEANS (AP) -- Jim Finks, the New Orleans Saints' president
and general manager who nearly became NFL commissioner in 1989, has
died of lung cancer. He was 66.
	Finks, who learned two weeks ago that he had an advanced case of
the disease, died Sunday night at his home, Saints spokesman Rusty
Kasmiersky said.
	A front office dealmaker for the Bears and Vikings as well as
the Saints, Finks also had success in baseball, helping the Chicago
Cubs win the National League East title in 1984 -- their first
division title since 1945.
	Five years ago, he was the choice of a six-man selection
committee to become commissioner of the NFL, a league he had served
for 40 years as a player, coach and manager.
	However, he was able to get only 18 of 21 votes from the owners.
The job, given up by Pete Rozelle, eventually went to current
commissioner Paul Tagliabue, who made Finks chairman of the
league's competition committee -- the body that recommends rules
changes.
	Tagliabue called Finks a great contributor to football.
	``Jim Finks had a vision for the game that stood the test of
time,'' Tagliabue said in a statement. ``... He contributed
enormously to sports and also to the communities in which he
lived.''
	Miami Dolphins coach Don Shula lauded Finks for his work on the
competition committee.
	``He worked hard to make the game safer and more enjoyable for
both players and spectators, and everything he did for the league
he carried out with dignity and class,'' Shula said.
	Finks, a heavy smoker, battled lung cancer since April 1993.
Doctors diagnosed an advanced case of the disease when he went to
the hospital after the NFL draft.
	After undergoing chemotherapy in 1993, he was unable to return
to work. Saints owner Tom Benson retained him as a consultant but
did not replace him as president and general manager.
	Finks is credited with turning the Saints from perennial losers
to playoff contenders.
	When he joined the Saints in January 1986, the team had gone 19
years without a winning season and was best known for its fans
wearing paper bags over their heads and calling themselves the
``Aints'' during the 1-15 season in 1980.
	In Finks' first season, the Saints finished 7-9 for fourth place
in the NFC West -- the team's only losing record after his arrival.
	The next year, the Saints went 12-3, the team's first-ever
winning season and the second best in the NFL, and went to their
first-ever playoff game.
	By 1991, the 25th anniversary of the franchise, New Orleans won
the conference with an 11-5 mark.
	Despite the winning records, Finks came under fire when the
Saints failed to win a single playoff game in four tries.
	A tough negotiator who opposed free agency and fought the rush
to huge salaries, Finks angered some fans when he let three popular
players get away in 1993 -- All-Pro linebacker Pat Swilling in a
trade to Detroit, fullback Craig Heyward to Chicago via free agency
and quarterback Bobby Hebert, who signed with Atlanta after being
cut by New Orleans.
	Finks, a native of Salem, Ill., entered the NFL as a rookie with
the Pittsburgh Steelers in 1949.
	He played his first three seasons as a defensive back, then
moved to quarterback when the Steelers switched from the single
wing to the T-formation. Finks also played professional baseball in
1949 and 1950.
	He made the Pro Bowl in 1952, and in the preseason of 1955 beat
out Johnny Unitas to keep the quarterback job with the Steelers.
``I threw 26 interceptions that season and retired,'' Finks joked.
``And Johnny Unitas was never heard from again.''
	In 1956, Finks joined Calgary of the CFL as a scout and moved up
to general manager the next season. He helped Calgary to the Grey
Cup, the CFL equivalent of the Super Bowl, then moved to Minnesota
in 1964.
	He hired Bud Grant in 1967, and the Vikings went on to dominate
the NFC Central, advancing to the Super Bowl twice in Finks' stay,
1969 and 1973.
	He assumed additional duties of executive vice-president in
1969. In his last four seasons at Minnesota, the Vikings won 47
games.
	Finks joined the Chicago Bears' front office two days before the
regular season in 1974, restoring a leaderless team that had
faltered since its championship in 1963.
	Before his departure in 1983, Finks constructed one of the NFL's
most dominating teams. He acquired 19 of the 22 starters for a
Bears' team that compiled a 15-1 record in 1985 and crushed New
England 46-10 in Super Bowl XX.
	Finks is survived by his wife Maxine and four sons, Jim, David,
Dan and Tom. Funeral arrangements were incomplete.

Article: 1974
From: [email protected] (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.local.sfbay,clari.sports.football.college
Subject: Stanford Player-Coach-AD Dead
Date: Mon, 9 May 94 17:30:20 PDT
 
	STANFORD, Calif. (AP) -- Chuck Taylor, who participated in the
Rose Bowl first as a Stanford football player and later as coach
and athletic director, has died at age 74.
	Taylor, who had been battling cancer, died Saturday at Stanford
University Hospital.
	As an offensive lineman, Taylor earned three letters at Stanford
from 1940-42 and was a unanimous All-America selection in '42. He
played in the 1941 Rose Bowl in which Stanford beat Nebraska 21-13.
	After graduating, Taylor spent three years in the Navy and
played pro football for the Miami Seahawks before returning to
Stanford in 1948 as coach of the freshman team.
	Taylor had a brief stint as an assistant for the San Francisco
49ers, then came back to Stanford in 1951 as coach. Under Taylor,
Stanford was 40-29-2 in seven seasons and went to the Rose Bowl in
his first year. With a loss to Illinois in the bowl game, Stanford
finished the '51 season with a 9-2 record and was ranked seventh in
the nation.
	As athletic director from 1963-71, Taylor oversaw Stanford
athletics during the coaching tenure of John Ralston, who led the
school to consecutive Rose Bowl victories in 1971 and 1972.
	A service is scheduled May 20 at the university.
	He is survived by his wife, Margaret, and children Susan and
Doug.

	I'd be suprised if this is the Chuck Taylor of Converse All Star
	fame.  Since this guy was involved in football and the CAS was/is
	a basketball shoe.


	billl

    This was the Chuck Taylor of Converse All Star fame...Atlanta Journal
    Constitution.
    
    I remember working three weeks delivering papers to get me a pair after
    my mom said we couldn't afford them.  Still remember swishing and
    squealing back down the court in the old gymnasium.
    
    TS: 

    I guess I change my footwear for the rest of the week...
    

	Those are faux CAS, Walt.  Everyone knows the only REAL CAS are the
	black hightops.


	billl

|	Those are faux CAS, Walt.  Everyone knows the only REAL CAS are the
|	black hightops.

I still got a pair of vintage 1973 white Chuck hi-tops.  Also had to save 
my pennies to buy them - they were outrageously priced.  I think they were $13.

>|
>|	Those are faux CAS, Walt.  Everyone knows the only REAL CAS are the
>|	black hightops.
>
>I still got a pair of vintage 1973 white Chuck hi-tops.  Also had to save 
>my pennies to buy them - they were outrageously priced.  I think they were $13.

I had a black pair and a red pair circa the same time.  Unfortunately, they
are long gone, as I just plain wore them out.

It's strange to wear canvas hi-tops now -- the newer hi-tops of today
give so much more ankle support...


'Saw

|It's strange to wear canvas hi-tops now -- the newer hi-tops of today
|give so much more ankle support...

The new hi-tops feel like boots to me.  I opt for mid-tops in my rare sjourn
onto the basketball court.

	Paid for my first set of Converse All Stars, never called them Chucks,
	with money from the paper route in the mid 60's.  I think I remember
	paying $12 for them.  My folks went through the roof when they found
	out how much I paid.  I bought them from the junior high basketball 
	coach.  I think he was suplementing his income kinda in the same
	style as Snuffy.  The only colors then were black or white.


	billl

    
        Used to get factory second Chuck Taylor's at Webbers in Hudson
       for $7 a pair. I think that at one time or another I had every
       color they ever made.

    Chuck Taylors are going for around $50 in the UK these days.

>        Used to get factory second Chuck Taylor's at Webbers in Hudson
>       for $7 a pair. I think that at one time or another I had every
>       color they ever made.


I seem to remember paying like $12 -- which really was outrageous for
a pair of regular sneakers back then.  If I remember right, a pair of
running shoes back then that cost $40 were definitely top of the line....


'SAw

|>        Used to get factory second Chuck Taylor's at Webbers in Hudson
|>       for $7 a pair. I think that at one time or another I had every
|>       color they ever made.

There was a factory outlet store in Medford back then, and they had Chucks 
(actually we called them "CONS") for $7.  

I remember when ProKeds came out, and Pete Maravich wore them.  They mounted 
the only real threat to Cons at the time.  I personally liked the ProKeds 
better, but the Cons were cooler.

I also remember when the firsted leather Cons came out (mid 70s).  I was 
certain that I had never seen anything cooler in my life...

=Bob=

We got one of those sports super stores near us. Low cut Chuck's go for
$22. Just got me a new pair for the summer time.

TTom

    They were called Cons here in Joisey ,too. I loved the Black kind that
    the Celts of the late 60's wore.

    I've still got a pair in my closet, and I've got an article from the
    Globe about 'em from about five years ago hangin' in my office.
    
    NAZZ

    I've got a pair of black ones too.  I got them in a pinch out in CA
    for $30...

    
    I remember my first pair of white Converse All Stars.  Had to buy them
    myself.  $13.  Before that, all my Mom ever got me were the $4 Bob
    Cousy low cuts with the green bottoms at Zayres.
    
    brews

    I used to do Webster's in Hudson all the time too.

    Sneakers originally were black.  When white came out it took some
    getting used to then everyone wore white and black was gauche.
    
    Then the Celtics started wearing basic black and bc eagles under cousy
    wore black too.

    I had PF Flyers at the time...
    

    re.354
    
    when I was young I wore the Bob Cousy low cuts also. especially when
    you had 4 growing boys in my family...
    
                      stig

    
    	Walt, did they make you run faster and jump higher?
    
    Claybone

    Yeah... and the didn't have dopey dots on the back like those Keds
    tail-lights did...

Yea, until I started bucking up my own money for sneakers, I was stuck in Sears
Jeepers.  In fact most of my clothes from my childhood came form Sears.  With
years of therapy, I have overcome this, however.  I just get this litte twitch
every time I enter a Sears store.

I think I'll have to wear my Cons to work tomorrow, in tribute to the late Mr.
Taylor...

=Bob=

>    Yeah... and the didn't have dopey dots on the back like those Keds
>    tail-lights did...

I saw where the land of our esrtwhile buddy, MrT, Minnesota has banned
the shoes with lights. At least the ones that use mercury.

TTom

     Speaking a_sneakers...whatever happened to Red Ball Jets?

     Neal

    	I used to wear Keds.
    
    	Scott

      May this smelly sneaker topic RIP?

Yep, broke out the Cons thised morning.  Wearing them at work is my tribute to 
ol' Chuck Taylor...

    Yea, they really go well with that chartreuse leisure suit yer
    wearing there =Bob=. Doesn't match your multi-colored afro tho....
    
    MikeL
    

	=Bob=, with that chartreuse leisure suit you really are a 90's
	kinda fashion trend setter.



	billl

| Title:  Is it double breasted?

It's not, but I am...

| Title:  what size?  more than a mouthful?  ;^)
 
A gentleman doesn't divulge such information... 

    
    
    who is/was Chuck Taylor?
    
    

	>>who is/was Chuck Taylor?

	Check back through several replies in this topic for your answer.



	billl

      A wide reciever for the Redskins?
    
      Lets take =Bob= fishin' and use him as bait (-).  chartruse has
    always been bary bary good to me...
    
      Tim 

|
|	>>who is/was Chuck Taylor?
|
|	Check back through several replies in this topic for your answer.
|


Bill is only replying like this because he doesn't remember what
that reply said....8^)

    I've got the red hi-tops on today...
    

|     Lets take =Bob= fishin' and use him as bait (-).  chartruse has
|    always been bary bary good to me...
 
Yea, I could do that.  I could be really good at that. In fact I could be a real
master baiter...

=Bob=

>>  Bill is only replying like this because he doesn't remember what
>>  that reply said....8^)

	That doesn't make me bad, does it?


	billl

>        <<< Note 89.380 by MKFSA::LONG "HB Jessica!  Sweet sixteen!" >>>
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As Butt-head would say "I'm *THERE* dude..."


Been waitin' on this.....8^)


Tell her I said Happy Birthday.....


'Saw

    I figured that would come out after a while...
    

>>  As Butt-head would say "I'm *THERE* dude..."
	
	Sure, you come to her party, but come up with some lame excuse 
	for not showing up at mine.  Probably didn't even tell anyone
	else in here about it either, like you were supposed to.


	billl

|
|>>  As Butt-head would say "I'm *THERE* dude..."
|	
|	Sure, you come to her party, but come up with some lame excuse 
|	for not showing up at mine.  Probably didn't even tell anyone
|	else in here about it either, like you were supposed to.
|

I wasn't supposed to tell anyone else in here about it.....

If I'd have not already had plans, I'd have been at yer party.....8^)

    You didn't invite us to your birthday party?

    nice guy billl

I get this call, like two days before the event that says "okay, there's
this party..."

I'd had plans for that night already for two weeks (well, a week and a half)
so I couldn't go.

But I *did* follow up on the other thing that was axed of me.....Most of
which you all know....


'Saw

�	Sure, you come to her party, but come up with some lame excuse 
�	for not showing up at mine.  Probably didn't even tell anyone
�	else in here about it either, like you were supposed to.
    
    'Saw has rapidly surpassed /Don in the lame excuse department.
    
    There was a party for you, billlll?  If Idaknown, Idabeendere.

    And we thought we were your pals...
    

Hrrumpfff.

Jeff Needle was probably there, too...

	Take it up with 'Saw and his accomplis.  I didn't know anything 
	about it until I walked into the house.


	billl

No one said anything to me about inviting anyone else.

All I was supposed to do was to make everyone send him mail.....

As to me not showing, well, with my schedule these days I need more than
two days notice....8^)


'Saw

    Verlon Biggs,51 of leukemia. He was a fine defnesive end for the Super
    Bowl champion Jets. Leter played for Washington.

King Gaskins at 36 (?) - drowning victim.

King Gaskins was the one of the best high school basketball players I've ever 
seen.  He was at Catholic Memorial High School in the early 70s, where he led 
them to a couple of state crowns.  I'll never forget when CM played my alma 
mater, North Quincy in the Tech Tourney.  Gaskins totally dominated the game,
and NQ didn't stand a chance.

After high school, he played for the first Boston Shootout team, known as the 
"Boston Six", the best group ever to come out of the area.  I remember Bobby 
Carrington, and King, I'm sure NAZZ can tell us the rest.

Gaskins went to Holy Cross, but soon got himself into trouble.  He was arrested
for B&E, and other charges, and ended up kind of down and out.  In recent years
he straghtened himself out, and was spend his time helping inner city kids.

He was at some kind of an outing with some camp councelors when he drowned.

    
     Ron Lee was another member of the (local) legendary Boston Six.
    He went on to star at Oregon and travelled around the NBA for awhile.
    The Boston Six kicked butt on all-star teams from every other city in 
    the country. Those cats pretty much *made* the Boston Shootout.

|    Ron Lee was another member of the (local) legendary Boston Six.

That's right. Ronnie and his brother, Russ (UMass I think), both did some time 
on NBA pine.

That was an incredible group.

    	I think King Gaskins was a little older than that Bob.  His
    team played my alma mater (Saint Bernard's) in my junior year and
    he was a freshman then.  He was quite the player.
    
    				  /Don

    
    Slashah,
    
    	Are we talking B.C. or A.D. here?
    
    Claybone

    
    
    
    	Gaskins was 40 years old. He graduated from C.M. in 72. I had the
    please of seeing Gaskins & C.M. torment my Malden Catholic team twice
    a season! :-)
    
    JimH
    

Yea, 40 is about right - he was three years older than me...

    Did he and Ron Perry ever play on the saem HC team?
    
    

|   Did he and Ron Perry ever play on the saem HC team?
 
As I recall, they missed each other by a year.  Gaskins had already fallen out
with the law when Perry arrived.

Ronnie Perry was probably second only to Gaskins in high-school hype.  Perry 
of course, was helped by his dad, considered by most as teh best athelete in
Holy Cross hsitory.

=Bob= 

    Ronnie Perry is 36.
    
    I played baseball against this teams in Little League, Babe Ruth and
    Legion.  He graduated from HC in '80.
    
    Mark.

�    Slashah,
    
�    	Are we talking B.C. or A.D. here?
    
�    Claybone

	Hey Claybone, actually my junior year was B.B.C. (Before Broncos 
Choked).

				  /Don

    
    	<insert sound of Claybone runnin' off like a kicked puppy>

	O.J. Simpson's ex-wife along with a friend of hers (boyfriend?).
	Killed in California.  OJ is being questioned.  Not as a suspect
	as I understand, but he may have been a witness or some such.

	Kevin

I heard this morning that OJ is indeed a suspect.  They found a bloody glove in 
his home which matched the one found at the crime site.

Maybe I've seen too many TV mysteries, but these circumstances seem too easy. 
Why would he bring the bloody glove home?  Could there be somebody framing him?

    Before this turns into another Chucky Stuart soap opera, let's wait for
    the facts to emerge.
    
    Mark.

    Could be being framed by an ex-Noter with time on his hands.
    
    Revenge for certain comments made about the Irish?
    
    Next on Hard Copy....

     coulda been framed by anybody since it was well publisized that he
    threatened to kill his wifed awhile back. Either sombody jumped on that 
    info and framed O.J. or.....well,  like the noter said, better wait
    till the facks are known.

Were the dead folks found in a hotel room locked from the inside?

    
    It was Colonel Mustard, and he used a knife.
    

    Didn't he also fly to Chicago, check and and then two hours later, out
    of a hotel?  Sounds strange.
    
    I hope OJ isn't that dumb.  I really like him.
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    Watched the Chicago news last night to get the skinny on that quitter
    Sandberg and was amazed to discover that O.J. had pushed this huge 
    story to the 2nd page!  
    
    Yes, O.J. flew into Chicago yesterday for a Hertz golf tournament. 
    While at his hotel he was informed of the deaths and immediately 
    caught a flight back to California.  Meanwhile the police spent over 
    *2 hours* in the Juice's hotel room, removinv several "hotel owned" 
    objects.
    
    BTW, does anyone know that OJ's first wife (they were divorced after
    his daughter drowned) died in an automobile accident that the police
    had termed, ah-hem, ... "suspicious"?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I nominate .414 as the worst reply in Sprots
    
    Nice goin.
    
    Lee

>    I nominate .414 as the worst reply in Sprots
>   
>   Nice goin.
    
Hey Lee,

At least he didn't mention that OJ's hotel room was locked....


I still think Leary did it was settin' the Juice up.....

    
    
       BTW.
    
         No O.J. is not from ATHOL! :-)
    
    
    Chap

     
       I give Ryne Sandberg alot of credit. He was/is one of the top
    three second baseman EVER. He also showed alot of patience by staying
    with such a SORRY team for as long as he did. He would have two hand-
    fuls of World Series rings to his credit if he wasn't playing "little
    league" ball with the Cubs.
    
                                  -TWINSWIN-

Not looking good for the Juice, unfortunately.....

    Ed was Boston schoolboy sports and a more respected and well like
    individual I've never met.  I was at Boston Tech teaching French in
    1967 when all the excitement of the tech tourney win for bt occurred, a
    first for boston schools.
    
    Ed was a big man physically but unusually humble for someone like that
    and reached to everyone.

    
    My buddy here in Atlanta, Shawn Ricks, was on that Tech Tourney team
    under Coach Grant.  Starting 5: Mike Curley (C) , Ollie Wise (F), John
    Bell (F), George Smith (G), & Shawn Ricks (G).  He truly respected
    coach Grant...
    
    TS:

    Ironically I think I remember shawn.  See if he remembers a certain
    left-handed guard on the faculty team from our game with the varsity.
    
    we were supposed to play the hockey team as varsity was considered to
    strong but Ed started bring in his varsity when we took a big lead.
    
    Curley is the father of the bc curleys, soon to be the nba curley.

One of the few highlights of the Rookie Mets season, or
was he a lowlight?  Marv Thornberry passed away from 
cancer.  Marv was also seen in the Miller Lite commercials
asking something to the effect of "I don't know why they asked
me to do this?"

zamboni

Mods:  Could we change this topic name from "R.I.P" to "R.I.P."?
(Three periods)

     Nit: Marv Throneberry...of the Amazing '62 Mets. He was 60.
     		 ^^^^

     I always those Miller Lite commercials when the 'TASTES GREAT!' guys
     started duking it up with the 'LESS FILLING!' guys , and he'd say...

     "I knew this was a bad ideer"

     Wasn't it Marv, who Casey Stengel said, was the only player he knew,
     who lost a ground ball in the sun?

     Neal
     

    It was mentioned in the obit that Marv had a brother Faye but not that
    Faye was a good player, mainly for washington though he was signed by
    redsox.  those two team traded a lot in early 50s.
    
    And Joe Pepitone lost a throw from Clete Boyer (3b) in the sun ('63 world
    series) that clinched the yankees doom.  This was in 4th game against
    Koufax and Whitey Ford was trying to stem the sweep.  Mantle hit a
    homerun batting right handed (best righthanded batter in history,
    probably).  Whitey scuffed,spit,shined and oiled to no avail and lost
    what seemed to be the only clutch game ever (for him).
    
    bilthe

Oh, say it ain't so......


I remember a friend of mine who was a dyed-in-the-wool 1962 Original Mets
fan and he used to talk about Marv all the time.   


RIP Marv, we'll miss you!


'Saw


PS  If I get around to it I'll change the title, but quite honestly worrying
    about the extra period seems a little anal....8^)

    
    
    	Yabbut I know a lot of wimmin folks who get real real
    worried when there's a missing period!
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    Kev_for_JaKe!
    

Trivia: Marvin Eugene Throneberry
        -      -      -

	The only players who's initials spelled his team's name.

	Rest in Peace...

    
    
    	I have tears in my eyes as I make this request.
    
    If anyone has a copy of the Lowell Sun, I'd appreciate getting a fax.
    
    dtn 297-2105 (fax #)
    
    please call me @ 297-4148 and let me know
    
    thanks
    Kev
    

    Make a copy for me Kev?
    

    
    If I get one, sure.
    
    
    Nazz lives in Dracut, just north of Lowell.  Any out of towners are
    welcome to stay at my house - just drop me a line.
    
    Kev
    

    
    Fellow ::Sports Friends,
    
    I'm sorry I was cryptic.  It is with tremendous saddness and pain that
    I report that Steve Nazarro's 11 year old daughter, Andrea,  was hit 
    and killed by a car while delivering newpapers last night.  
    
    I don't have any other information but I do have Nazz's address if
    anyone wants to send their condolences.
    
    My prayers are for him and his family.  I know what they're going
    through and I'm feeling his pain.
    
    Kev
    

  Bummer. Condolences to Nazz.

  :*({
  George

I'm doing my best to keep up with the situation.  As soon as the people in my
(an Nazz's) group have details, they are going to pass it along to me.  Mike
Childs has already sent a donation, if anyone would like to put together a 
group donation to the charity the family chooses, I'll coordinate it.

Also, I live very close to Dracut, so I offer the same deal on accomdations.

If anyone who wasn't on distribution for my original mail message of this 
morning would like to be kept up to date, send me mail.

Kev, if you get any information (from the Lowell Sun) before I do, let us know.

=Bob=

RE   <<< Note 89.435 by CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH "You gotta put down the duckie..." >>>

>Mike
>Childs has already sent a donation, if anyone would like to put together a 
>group donation to the charity the family chooses, I'll coordinate it.

  Sounds like a good idea. If you can set up a special DCU account and tell us
the number, we can just transfer money into the account. We could send flowers
or it could go to charity if they prefer. 

  George

I'd like to offer my condolences.  I'll try my darndest to make it up there
whereever/whenever....

I'm not real good at this sort of thing, and words are pretty meaningless
anyways at a time like this.......


'Saw

    <permission to post has been granted>
    
    Kev
    
    
From:	CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH "Bob - TAY2; dtn 227-3983  25-Jul-1994 0956" 25-JUL-1994 09:58:49.43
To:	@nazz
CC:	
Subj:	Andrea Nazzaro's wake/funeral

Morning

I have further information on the services for Steve Nazzaro's daughter.  The
wake will be tonight (Monday), 2-4 PM and 7-9 PM at Ouellette-McKenna funeral
Home in Lowell.  The funeral will be tomorrow (Tuesday) at 10 AM at St.
Michael's Church in Lowell.

Several of us have already discussed attending tonight's service.  The best
strategy seems to be that we meet at the Ground Round in Chelmsford at 6:45, and
head over to the funeral home.  Let me know if you are going to come, so we
won't leave without you.

The Ground Round is easy to find, on Rt. 110 in Chelmsford.  These sets of
directions are from ::SPORTS, and seem to work.

	If you are coming from the North, head south on Route 3, and take the
	Rte. 110 - Chelmsford exit - it's before you get to 495 interchange.
	Take a right at the bottom of the exit ramp - you will go by a
	Cinema on your left, the Chelmsford Mall on your left, and
	the Ground Round is on your left a little further up...


    From rt. 495

    From the north, get off the 4/110 -Chelmsford exit (first exit after
    Rt.3)  Make a left, it will be on your right.

    From the south, get off the 110-Chelmsford exit, bear right, will be
    on your right.
  
If anyone would like directions directly to the funeral home, send mail.

Bob

Kev,

If it's okay, could you possibly post Nazz's address.

Some of us who can't attend would probably like to send sympathy cards.....


'Saw

    
    I'd rather not do that but I'll provide it to anyone who asks.
    
    Kev
    

>    
>    I'd rather not do that but I'll provide it to anyone who asks.
>    
>    Kev

Cool.  I received it from another noter.  I'm all set....


'Saw
    

We learned at the wake last night that the Nazzaro family is asking for
donations to Andrea's school for to-be-determined program in her honor.  As
George suggested, I have set up an account in DCU (it's a sub-account to my
account) for people to send donations to.  If you do not have a DCU account, you
can still go to any DCU and ask that cash or a check be deposited to the
account.  If this is still not feasible, you may send me a donation through
interoffice mail.  Whatever way you do it, send me a note saying that you 
contributed, so we can keep track.

Let's get this done this week.  I will take the money and make the donation
early next week.

Any questions, let me know.

=Bob=

		DCU Account Number:  205309
		Sub-Account Number:  8 (important to specify this)

		Interoffice Address: TAY2-1/H15
		Outside Address:     Digital Equipment Corporation
				     153 Taylor Street
				     Mail Stop TAY2-1/H15
				     Littleton, MA 01460-1407


				

I just got back from the funeral (couldn't make it to the wake). Didn't
get a chance to talk with Steve but he was trying to hold up as best
he could. Chris seemed to be in much worse shape. The church was completely
full.

The Crazy Met

    Hello ::Sprots fans, and you too Crisper!  I'm just stopping into
    the office for a few minutes, but I wanted to thank all of the
    wonderful noters for their incredible support you've shown me and
    the rest of my family over the past few days.  It has been a great
    source of comfort to once again match those ugly faces to the names
    I debate in the NOTES files.  And while we may disagree on many topics,
    one thing we all agree upon is that it sure stinks that my precious
    daughter only lived 9 1/2 years.  But they were 9 1/2 fun, active,
    joyous years, and for that I will always be grateful.
    
    Thanks once again for your many kindnesses.  Although my life will never
    be "normal" again, I do in some way look forward to coming back in here
    in a couple of weeks to explain the salary cap, and tout UMass' certain
    Final Four appearance in 1995.  
    
    Talk to you all soon.
    
    NAZZ
    

    Nazz, you are a GIANT among men.
    
    Mark.

James Wilfred "Bill" Orwig died at age 87 Saturday after a 2 year battle
with cancer.

Orwig was the A.D. for Indiana who hired Bob Knight as men's basketball
coach.

TTom

    
    Nev Chandler, longtime Browns & Indians radio announcer, died last
    night, ending his battle with cancer.  He was 47.
    
    Joe

    
    	R.I.P. Napoleon McCallum's(sp?) pro football career.
    
    Claybone

    	Claybone,
    
    	What happened last night to make you say this about McCallum?
    
    	I missed the second half of the game.
    
    	Scott

>    	What happened last night to make you say this about McCallum?
    
He severely (it appeared) dislocated his left knee and was taken off in
a stretcher.

Dan Dierdorf (who's almost palatable to me by now) talked about the severe
pain that accompanies that injury, along with a unique noise.   Frank and Al
talked about how they were glad that they didn't pick up the noise on their
mikes.

To his credit, Ken Norton realized that McCallum was injured and didn't move
until they could get McCallum away from him.....


'Saw

    
    
    Joe Theisman like knee injury.
    
    It looked bad!!!!
    
    
    Chappy

    Theismann broke his leg..
    

>   <<< Note 89.454 by HANNAH::ASHE "Bow down before the one you serve..." >>>
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


What if she's not into doggie style?

    Can I respond without getting set hidden?
    

>
>   Can I respond without getting set hidden?
>   


Well, you can always send me mail....8^)

	Vitas Gueralitis (sp?) dead of an apparent heart attack someplace
	in England.  He was 40 years old.

	Kevin

Gerulaitis died in his sleep while staying with friends in Southampton,
NY.

Almost immediately the speculation about drugs began. Vitas had gone
through substance abuse, freely admitted that he was liked a little toot,
and was implicated - but not charged - in a cocaine distibution
conspiracy.

TTom

	Funny, I heard Southampton and thought of England.  Guess you can tell
	that I'm west of the Mississippi.

	Kevin

Vitas passed away from Carbon Monoxide poisoning.  There was apparently a 
improperly functioning propane heater in the room he was in.

My question is, who needs heat this time of year?

zamboni

>
>My question is, who needs heat this time of year?
>


Sunday night was VERY cool outside, and I wore a jacket.  I had the
heater on in the car on the way home.

Depending on how much time you spend in warmer climates, you might want
something to take the chill off -- and a propane heater in a guest cottage
by the shore (Southampton is at the shore I'm pretty sure) where the air
is cooler would make sense.....


'Saw

    Was his door locked?  Where's ACConspiracy?
    
    brews

>    Was his door locked?  Where's ACConspiracy?
    
Already First Alert and another company have had their stock go up, because
they make CO2 detectors.

Last year in Suffield CT they had three deaths in a home because of CO2.
They were burning a fire in the fireplace and the house was so tight
there wasn't good enough circulation.   For weeks afterwards you couldn't
buy a CO2 detector.

Same thing is going to happen now.....

    	Saw,
    
    	It's CO. CO2 is carbon dioxide.
    
    	Yeah, we're starting to see a lot of pictures of people in
    	commercials. "They all died from a colorless, odorless, tasteless,
    	etc., gas. Blah, blah, blah."
    
    	Scott

>    
>    	It's CO. CO2 is carbon dioxide.
>    

Yeah, I should have known better.  It is definitely CO and my high school
chem teacher would shoot me for that mistake.

Every once in a while we'd get folks like that when I was in the FD.  Scary
stuff, because administering O2 doesn't seem to touch them, and they are
like cherry red....


'Saw

'Saw, I suppose this is another of my cultural deficits.  What does
your current p-name mean?  In other words, what is D'Esopo's?  (If
it were just a funeral parlor, it wouldn't be a gag, right?)

Steve

>
>'Saw, I suppose this is another of my cultural deficits.  What does
>your current p-name mean?  In other words, what is D'Esopo's?  (If
>it were just a funeral parlor, it wouldn't be a gag, right?)
>


It's kind of a long story.

D'Esopos is a funeral home in Wethersfield, CT.

In August, my unit of the State Militia got activated for our yearly week of
training and we had to spend a week at Camp Weicker,  in Niantic CT, learning
all kinds of National Guard stuff (like which end of the gun you point, and
which end goes on your shoulder, how to swab down a latrine, orientation on the
UH-1B helicopter etc etc etc).

Anyway, one of the guys in the unit is this big guy (I mean huge and hulking, 
say around 275-280).  His name is Handschumacher, Robert F. and when the guy
sleeps, he sleeps on his back, all hulked up, with his hands on his
chest.  Snoring.

My buddy Tommy Donza says one morning a while after we did Reveille, 
"Jesus, that Handschumacher looks like he models caskets for D'Esopo's."

Well, for the rest of the week that kind of became one of our jokes.


'Saw

 >    It's CO. CO2 is carbon dioxide.            
    
 >   Yeah, we're starting to see
 >   a lot of pictures of people in        commercials. "They all died from
 >   a colorless, odorless, tasteless,        etc., gas. Blah, blah, blah."    
    
    Then why don't they put that smellyt stuff in it like they do in
    natural gas so's you can smell it.  I think it's a big conspiracy wif
    First Alert and Clintoon as the culprits.
    
    brews, filling in for ACConspiracy

    	Brews,
    
    	Well, ya see, natural gas is something that you purchase
    	from the gas company, so they can make it stink before it
    	gets to your house. CO, on the other hand, is not something
    	you purchase. It's just produced as a byproduct of some other
    	process. So, no way to make it stink or visible, etc.
    
    	Scott

>    	Well, ya see, natural gas is something that you purchase
>    	from the gas company, so they can make it stink before it
>    	gets to your house. CO, on the other hand, is not something
>    	you purchase. It's just produced as a byproduct of some other
>    	process. So, no way to make it stink or visible, etc.
    
I used to do a lot of work with liquid propane, and one entire summer
I had that smell "in my nose".  Man, it's enough to make you yewk all
over the place sometimes.


I must be a pretty sophisticated system, because I put a smell in my
own natural gas.....8^)


'Saw-For-Jake

  >        Brews,            
  >
  >  Well, ya see, natural gas is something that
  >  you purchase        from the gas company, so they can make it stink
  >  before it        gets to your house. CO, on the other hand, is not
  >  something        you purchase. It's just produced as a byproduct of
  >  some other        process. So, no way to make it stink or visible, etc.    
    
    That's a pretty lame excuse if'n you ask me.  Sorta like saying Don
    Drysdale locked his hotel door cause EVERYBODY does.  It's all a
    conspiracy, I'm tellin' ya, and you're being fooled.  Follow the
    money!!
    
    brews for ACConspiracy

Waiting for the obligitory JaKe note about hot dogs, beans, nachos 
and beer...

    
>> <<< Note 89.474 by SCOONE::MCCULLOUGH "Hakuna Matata - means no worries..." >>>

>>Waiting for the obligitory JaKe note about hot dogs, beans, nachos 
>>and beer...
    
    Sorry =bob=, I ain't gonna oblige ya on that right now.  I'm home wif
    the flu, and just the thought of food sends me to the porcelain GOD
    right now.
    
    (8^(*
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    I'll take the under. Say 1:30, Liverwurst and onions on rye!
    
    
    Chap

    All the smart money is on 'three eggs over easy with a side of extra
    greasy sausage.'  Just make sure the whites of the eggs are still
    partially liquified.
    
    
    billl

    Okay guys, I'm getting the hell outta here if'n younzes won't quit it
    wif the food shit.  
    
    Headed to Hurl
    
    JaKe
    

Sardine sandwich, with mayo and meunster cheese.....


YUM.....

    Avacado and cranberry sauce, extra raisins.
    
    Mark.

    Is it too early to put the McCall vs. McNeely fight in this topic? Ol'
    Peter is likely to take a beating on this one.
    
    

Only just seeing this stuff today (out of town, as usual) and my mouth
is watering seriously.

JaKe, I hope all this solicitous attention didn't set your recovery
back too many weeks.

Steve

Steve, you should have figured out by now that there is nothing that can
cure what ails JaKe.

HtH

The Crazy met

    
>>JaKe, I hope all this solicitous attention didn't set your recovery
>>back too many weeks.
    
    What's an extra hurl or two when yer hurling every 20 minutes,
    anyways???
    
    I'm back to my normal ornary self.
    
    JaKe
    

    Fred Lebow died yesterday of cancer.  He founded the NYC marathon.
    

Frank McGuire died last night of complications after a stroke. McGuire
was 80.

McGuire coached at St. John's, whom he lead to the NCAA finals, No
Carolina, where he coached to Tar Heels to the championship in 57 beating
Wilt Chamberlain in tripe OT, and South Carolina, where he is still the
career leader in wins.

McGuire came to Tobacco Road and along with his arch-enemy from NC State,
Everett Case, help found the ACC. His specialty was recruiting heavily in
his native NY City. After winning it all with the Heels, McGuire stunned
the league by going to South Carolina. It wasn't too long before the
'Cocks pulled out of the ACC which started the beginning of the end of
national prominence for their program.

Of course, we can all thank McGuire for inflicting us with Dean, 
a_assitant to McGuire, who then became head coach.

TTom

A lot of WFAN's afternoon program yesterday was centered around 
interviews with former players of McGuire.....

Interesting stuff.....

Reuters is reporting that Raul Julia, age 54, has died from complications from
the stroke he suffered two weeks ago.  Julia is a veteran actor best known for
his roles in the "Kiss of the Spiker Woman" and the "Addams Family".

Wowsa!

zamboni

>                              -< RIP Raul Julia >-
>
>Reuters is reporting that Raul Julia, age 54, has died from complications from
>the stroke he suffered two weeks ago.  Julia is a veteran actor best known for
>his roles in the "Kiss of the Spiker Woman" and the "Addams Family".


Oh no, that's terrible.  I always liked his stuff.

But, if so, he's the third.  Martha Raye, Burt Lancaster and now Raul....


8^(

    
    
    
    Channel 4 Sports reported last night that the young man who was
    given the game ball from the BC vs ND football victory has succumbed to
    intestinal cancer. Chris Sullivan, aged 10.
    
    

I said goodbye to one of my closest friends on Wednesday afternoon.  He'd
gotten older, and as he had, his hips had started to go, so that getting
up and down was getting to be more of an effort.  He also had some urinary
tract problems -- nothing major yet, but the promise of worse to come loomed
large.

All I had ever received from him was fierce loyalty, unconditional love, and
enough mischief to keep it all funny.  What I got from him, I gave back
in return.

For years, he was there every day when I came home, happy to see me, ready
to play, and once in a great while he'd be soaked through to the skin because
for some strange reason, he loved laying out in the rain.

The fire siren, from the firehouse a quarter mile up the road, was the call
of the pack, and every fire an occasion to run to the top of the highest hill,
throw back his head, and howl, instinct and primal nature dictating what
was to be said.

On the coldest, windiest nights, I always had to be careful when getting
out of bed, because he'd be on the floor, right up close.  On warm summer
nights, it wasn't unusual to get up and find him breaking the "not on the
sofa" rule, curled up at the end where I always sat.


Friendship sometimes demands the very best one can give, under the most
adverse of circumstances.  This was no different.  Making the decision, and
carrying through, was one of the most difficult things I ever had to do.

I had the option of waiting outside until the vet was through, but I knew
that I couldn't do that.  So I went in, and held him, held him as he looked
at me that last time, held him as his body went limp, held him till I heard
the vet say quietly, "He's gone."  

For so long he was a part of me.  For so long we were a team.  Now there's
just an emptiness, an imcompleteness.  I know I did the right thing for
him, but the expectation of a greeting when I return home, or the thought
to save the bones from a meal, or simply the urge to take a walk and
watch him chase some small game will die hard and slowly for me.


I am lucky to have had such a friend.......

    Saw, my retriever is getting on in age.  I don't look forward to the
    day when we have to put her down.
    
    Condolences.
    
    Mark.

Condolences, 'Saw.  I had to do that many years ago to a mutt who had
broken her back chasing cars.  I can still see her eyes.

Steve

    
    
    
          Sorry Saw,
    
    
          From someone who also has 2 dogs and love them like they were
    my kids.
    
    
    Chappy

    Nothing eases the sorrow like getting a new pup just like it's
    predecessor.

>    Nothing eases the sorrow like getting a new pup just like it's
>    predecessor.

You're the second person who's told me that, but unfortunately in this
case, I can't.

After the first of the year I'll be moving, and this time, for a whole bunch
of reasons, I'm looking into renting an apartment, as opposed to a whole
house.

Also, wolf hybrids are cool -- Rakkie was the most loyal dog I've ever
known.  From the time I brought him home (4 weeks old) until Wednesday,
I know that he would have given his life for me in a heartbeat, and the
intuitive companionship he gave was wonderful -- he always sensed my moods.

But, hybrids are a lot of work, and aren't "easy" in almost any sense.
Wonderful, but a lot of work and responsibility.


I've decided that the sorrow is good -- the depth of it measures just
how much he meant to me, and that perhaps it is something I should feel
in the grand cycle of life.

I've also decided that if/when I do get another (and I know someday I will,
even if I have a cat or two in between) it'll be a joint project (ie
family dog) because that way I won't have to be the sole person to make
such a difficult decision......


Thanks for all the good words, everyone.  It helped me a lot just to
write it out here.....


'Saw

    Saw,  the eyes welled up reading this story.
    
    I had a black lab when I was in HS.  He had a tedency to chase the
    horses at the stables next door, until one decided to give him a horseshoe
    to the head.  Since that day 20 years ago, I have not had another dog.
    
    Sorry for your loss pal :-(
    
    RTG

Sawmain,

Cats is good, too. Usually, they tell you what to do, not vice versa. 

But I think, in your case, you may still be trainable. ;-).

There's that great Far Side cartoon. It has two frames. The first is what
you say and what dogs hear. The balloon from the dog is blank except for
a couple of "spots". The second fame was what you say and what cats hear.
The balloon is completely blank.

TTom

    CATS DROOL, DOGS RULE!

I have one cat that does indeed drool. I've had several dogs that
slobbered, too, though.

Mostly, cats do what the hail they want to. Sorta like gravity: don't
care what you think about it.

TTom

I don't mind cats.  But it really depends on what kind of cat.

My girlfriend Kim prefers dogs, but right now she's got three cats.

One is this massive, 17 pound, all muscle black male, who won't come near
me.  He hates EVERYONE but her.

The female is a short haired tabby, and she's friendly enough.

But the other male is a grey tiger, and he's just like a dog.  I walk
in the house and wherever he's at he comes running to say hello to me.

I've already been told I can "borrow" him when I move....8^)


And yes, TTom, you're right.  Judging from my mom's cat, he has her 
perfectly trained....8^)


I like all kinds of animals.  Hell, if I had the room, I'd have horses
too!

  Cats are easy for living in the City. You don't have to walk them and you can
go away and leave them for a couple or three days at a time with no problem. 

  Also if you are going away for longer it's easier to get a neighbor to take
care of cats since they only have to feed them once a day and never have to
bother with materials generated by the tail section.

  And while it's true you can't train them, I could never really think of
anything that I'd want them to do. Heck, even dogs can't cook or clean and a
machine answers the phone.

  George

Back home on the farm, we had some cows, some goats, some geese, a couple
of peacocks, horses, a mule, couple of dogs and about 5 cats at any given
time. All the cats and dogs ran in a pack.

The funny ones were the goats who were convinced that they belonged in the
upper class with the dogs and cats, i.e., they thought they should be
able to come inside like the real "people".

TTom

    We too have cats, 2 to be exact.....But as Steve Martin once said "can
    you trust them?"
    
    One cat is a 17lb blob.  This cat is soo huge, it caint even clean its
    own butt.  The things we have to do for our cats.
    
    The other cat is a younger skinny long haired.  This guy is a spazoid
    though.
    
    Both cats get along with each other, but when they play fight, the fat
    guy gets real loud!!  They also seem to want to start playing at about
    1:00 a.m., and the whole house sounds of squealing, and pattering feet
    up an down the stairs.  If these guys had claws, it would be intersting
    to see if the playing would cease.
    
    BUT, definitely easier to care for then a bowser!
    
    RTG

>I like all kinds of animals.  Hell, if I had the room, I'd have horses too!
    
    one of the first purchases I had to promise my youngest daughter once
    we build our home in the mountains.

    Condolences, Sawmain.
    
    JaKe
    

	My condolences, 'saw.  We had to have a 15-year old Irish setter
	put to sleep just two years ago.  She was just a couple of years
	old when I met my wife (who was her dog, originally).  Before we
	moved to Georgia, she would go out at 3 a.m. and help me shovel
	our driveway in Maine, so that I could get to work.  I'd get a
	shovel full of snow, and throw it up into the bank.  She run over
	and then throw herself up in the air so that she could get a belly
	full.  It was awfully hard to have her put to sleep, but her time
	had come; she could barely move around with hip displacia, and was
	nearly blind.  She was having a difficult time with her breathing as
	well.

               <<< Note 89.504 by HBAHBA::HAAS "dingle lingo" >>>
                           -< better'n most people >-

>  The funny ones were the goats who were convinced that they belonged in the
>  upper class with the dogs and cats, i.e., they thought they should be
>  able to come inside like the real "people".
>
>  TTom

	I knew an old woman in Maine who did keep her goats inside with her,
	believe it or not.  The house was rather smelly (especially the "family"
	room where the goats stayed, but it didn't seem to bother them (the
	woman or the goats) one bit.

	Rick Rollins

    I have a wolf hybrid and her puppy.  They are very intelligent and
    sensitive dogs.  They do like that couch don't they.
    
    Smithsonian had an article in October on them and since of course all
    the letters in response.  About the same basic level of agreement as in
    this note except with the right owner they are great.
    
    Sorry for your loss except it got you back writing again in here.

>    I have a wolf hybrid and her puppy.  They are very intelligent and
>    sensitive dogs.  They do like that couch don't they.

Yeah, they definitely do.  I think it's because it smelled like me,
where I sat all the time.

    
>    Sorry for your loss except it got you back writing again in here.

Thanks Bill.

Yeah, I didn't feel much like writing while I was involved in making that
decision.


It's been over the weekend now, and I'm getting used to being the lone wolf
at this point.  I've awakened in the middle of the night, wondering
what was wrong, and then I'd realize I didn't hear him breathing next
to the bed.  I've pulled back in the yard and seen the dog house and
run, and then had to realize that he wouldn't be greeting me when I got
in the door.

Old habits die hard, I guess.....



re the 17 lb cat:

	My girlfriend's black cat weighs 17 pounds, but the vet says
	(and you can see) that he's all muscle.  He had never come near
	me at all (I think her ex used to try to abuse him, so he doesn't
	like men), but Saturday night he did.  He must be getting used
	to me....

	He's HUGE, and if I was another cat, I wouldn't wanna meet this
	guy in a dark alley.....


'Saw

    I have no use for pets in general, and I partricularly hate cats.
    
    NAZZ

    PErsonally, I LOVE CATS!!!!
    
    
    DEEP FRIED!!!!!!
    
    
    
    THEY TASTE JUST LIKE CHICKEN!!!
    
    
    WHY AM I shouting???
    
    JaKe
    

    My 17lb cat is anything but muscle.  This cat is sooo fat, her gut
    almost drags on the floor.  Definite case for an early heart attack. 
    But, damn, if she isn't the friendliest cat.  Everytime I sit in my
    recliner to watch tv, she jumps up and lays on the arm of the chair. 
    She especially loves my 8 year old.  Melissa can call her at any time,
    and she will be there.  The cat won't do that for anyone else, not even
    at dinner time.
    
    RTG

re pets:

	I guess it's like basketball -- some folks like 'em, some don't.

	I've always had a way with animals.  I probably should have been
	a vet, since they respond pretty well to me.  I guess being named
	Francis didn't hurt either.

	But I've always had a spot in my heart for them, especially dogs
	and cats, but I remember as a kid I longed for a pet racoon.

	
	I like dogs mostly, and cats on a case by case basis.  The cats
	I like tend to be more like dogs -- they come up to you, are 
	friendly, and want you to be friendly back.


	This is really the first time in my life I haven't had a pet.
	There's an emptiness there that's palpable.  

RE   <<< Note 89.511 by TNPUBS::NAZZARO "We're #5 Baby; that's not too bad!" >>>

>    I have no use for pets in general, and I partricularly hate cats.
>    
>    NAZZ

  I was talking to pets in general and I was surprised to learn that they all
hate NAZZ as much as he hates them.

  Turns out that most pets are B.C. fans because of their admiration for Eagles
and to an animal none of them had any clue as to what a Minuteman was, so
in general they had no use for NAZZ.

  George

    >Turns out that most pets are B.C. fans because of their admiration for
    >Eagles and 
    
    We got four cats from the Humane Society about 6 months ago.  Within 4
    days we were down to two cats.  We think it may have been an eagle that
    grabbed one, and the coyotes the other.  We're a bit more careful now,
    and still have the original two.
    
    brews  

    Have them watch out for my car - I got notches on my bumper for how
    many cats I've nailed!  I like squirrels and chipmunks though, probably
    from watching all those Disney cartoons as a kid.  So I try to avoid
    them on the road.
    
    NAZZ

  Actually I believe that they taste ok. 

  A group of scientists from Amsterdam was the 1st group to ever reach the
South Pole. They beat the British group by a few weeks. According to the movie
on PBS they went by dog sled and part of their plan involved eating half of
their dogs about mid trip when half their supplies had been expended.

  However they wouldn't eat the dog's liver. The saying went something like,
"never try to digest what a dog couldn't digest". 

  As for cats, in some parts of the world they are quite common as food. Heck,
to some big cats, people make good eat'en. 

  I guess when it comes down to it, the world is made up of two things, rocks
and food. 

  George 

    In the Far East, dog meat is considered a delicacy, hence the cook
    book:
    
    
    101 Ways to Wok Your Dog
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    re 518
    
      Amendsen of Norway was the first to reach the South Pole. 
    Scott's American team was in route to the pole at the time it was
    reached by the Norwegian team.

 I hope your working second shift Cadzilla. Otherwise why haven't you we
 heard your comments on the Cowboys this week?????????

 ;^)

    
    
    You must have missed it. I gave on on Saturday after the game.
    
    Too many mistakes. maybe this will wake them up before they start the
    playoffs.

    
    Hey Cad, what does the NFL think of Troy-boy thised week?
    
    brews

    
    
    	Brews
    
    
       I'll tell you tommorow after I pull the stats! Be my guess he's
    still #2 behind Young.
    

    
    Pat Haggerty, a NFL offical for 28 years passed away monday in Denver. 
    He had been battling prostate and bone cancer, but died of pneumonia.

    
    Well Cad, where's da numbers?

    
    
    Re-1  
    
       Aikman drops to #3 this week, Farve's 40-3 game with the Bear's put
    him #2 this week.

    
    So, convince someone, anyone, that Brett Favre is the 2nd best qb in
    the NFL.  I mean, the NFL says he is...
    
    brews

|   So, convince someone, anyone, that Brett Favre is the 2nd best qb in
|   the NFL.  I mean, the NFL says he is...

Even as a Packer fan, you can't convince me.

    FFL wise he's probably number 3 in the league as a QB.  I totally
    forgot about him in my earlier pro bowl note.  He should
    have been named over both Moon and Aikman.
    
    Jimbo

    How'd we end up in thisd topic anyway?

A couple of notables:

Ed DeBartolo, Sr., former owner and father of current owner (Jr.) of the
49ers. Complications due to pneumonia at 85.

Phil Bengston, who followed Lombardi at Green Bay. After a long illness
at 81.

TTom

    
>>Ed DeBartolo, Sr., former owner and father of current owner (Jr.) of the
>>49ers. Complications due to pneumonia at 85.
    
    Also former owner, and current (until yesterday) silent partner in the
    Pittsburgh Penguins.
    
    JaKe
    

> and current (until yesterday) silent partner

Now he is a real silent partner.

The Crazy Met

    One of the better pitchers not in the HoF.  I believe the Yankees got
    him from Cleveland and he was aboard by 49.  May have been a victim of
    housecleaning following loss of 54 pennant.
    
    Didn't see any obits but one of his famous moments came on the last out
    of his no-hitter vs the Sox with one T.Samuel Williams at bat.  Ted hit
    a foul fly which Berra dropped.  Allie winked at Lawrence Peter and
    threw the 3rd strike by Ted (who always did say Allie was about the
    best he faced along with Newhauser).
    
    Reynolds only had about 10 or 11 seasons.  Back then good pitchers were
    not as scarce and any slippage in form meant demotion to K.C. or trade
    to N.L (Raschi, Reynolds partner in crime in the 5 straight World
    Series wins went there and threw Hank A's first homerun ball).
    
    The third member of the trio was Ed Lopat.  Also on the staff was a
    young lefthander who Casey saved for the right spots (never at Fenway)
    who did eclipse the three and make the Hall.

    
       Former Middleweight king Carlos Monzon died in a one
      car accident in Argentina. Monzon defended the middle-
      weight title a record 14 times before he retired in 1977.

    Tommy, was Monzon the guy convicted of killing his girlfriend a ways
    back?
    
    If so, why wasn't he in jail?
    
    Mark.

    He was returning to jail from a furlough when he was kilt.
    
    JaKe

    
    Ron Luciano (sp). - former Major League Umpire was found dead. He was
    57 years old.
    
    Former Crew chief when asked about Luciano said, he was never a great
    umpire. Maybe there was a hidden agenda with this guy. Luciano was not
    well liked because of his style and comments about umpiring in general.

Just heard that this was a suicide.

The police are saying that Luciano died of self-inflicted CO poisoning.

TTom

    
    	Bob Chandler, ex- Bill's player and friend of O.J. Simpson died
    this past week. What was the cause of death?

Nat Holman died Sunday at age 98.

Holman holds a record that caint be beat: he won the NIT and the NCAA the
same year. His City College of New York team achieved this feat after the
49-50 season. 

The nexted season, some of those same players were arrested for tanking
games in a point shaving scandal. Holman refused to comment or testify,
a position he maintained to his death.

ESPN reports that at one point, Holman played professional basketball
while still coaching. 

TTom

    I know this isn't sports related, but that never seemed to 
    slow any of down....
    
    The booming bass voice of the original Temptations, Melvin (mumble),
    passed away.  Growing up I had a very big Motown influence and this
    guy was one of the best at giving you that reverberating deeeeep
    voice.  Much the same as Barry White.
    
    
    billl

    Last name was Franklin - he was only 52.
    
    NAZZ

    RIP
    March 19 Addie Morris, 57, an apparent suicide (no details given)
    in her Shirley MA home.  Addie was mother of Joe, Jamie, and two other
    pretty good football players.
    
    March 20 John W. Minton aka "Big John Studd" in Fairfax VA of
    bone marrow cancer.
    

>    March 19 Addie Morris, 57, an apparent suicide (no details given)
>    in her Shirley MA home.  Addie was mother of Joe, Jamie, and two other
>    pretty good football players.

Do you know if their father is still alive ?  Those boys are still
pretty young to be without parents.

I wonder if Big John Studd got bone marrow cancer from juicin'.....

|| Title:  Husband Earl is my town postmaster

|Do you know if their father is still alive ?  Those boys are still
|pretty young to be without parents.

Groton, MA (where Dr.A lives) is a small town, but even *they* need a living
postmaster (I think).

>Groton, MA (where Dr.A lives) is a small town, but even *they* need a living


Groton CT > Groton MA

8^)

    >Groton CT > Groton MA
    
    Groton has taken over the old Wang golf course as the town municipal
    course and has pretty good rates for townees.
    
    Can Groton ct match that?

>    Groton has taken over the old Wang golf course as the town municipal
>    course and has pretty good rates for townees.
>    
>    Can Groton ct match that?

In a sense yes.  The golf course on the sub base is a bitch (if you slice
or hook you're f___ed) and the town course is pretty good.

Of course, the town holds some sentimental value too, for our family....


'Saw

>    Groton has taken over the old Wang golf course as the town municipal
>    course and has pretty good rates for townees.
>    
>    Can Groton ct match that?

Wicked hills on that course.  A few friends and I used to do hill runs starting
at the practice green, and looping around the outskirts of the course.  Quite a
workout.  Golfers didn't like it much though.

    
    It's a wimpy golfr who doesn't like the challenge of a moving target!
    
    brews

    Yeah.  Anyone can put the ball in the cup. (Some just take longer.)
    It takes a true skill to be able to play the wind, lead the runner
    just the right amount, then plunk him right on the bean.
    
    
    
    billl

|    It takes a true skill to be able to play the wind, lead the runner
|    just the right amount, then plunk him right on the bean.

How true.  I ain't been plunked yet, and I'm not all that fast!

>
>How true.  I ain't been plunked yet, and I'm not all that fast!
>

You gotta watch out for them Marine golfers -- one shot, one kill......

|You gotta watch out for them Marine golfers -- one shot, one kill......

Hmm.  The Marine Corps Marathon goes by a military golf course on Haynes Point
(I think that's in Virginia).  I haven't heard of any casualties yet...

>
>Hmm.  The Marine Corps Marathon goes by a military golf course on Haynes Point
>(I think that's in Virginia).  I haven't heard of any casualties yet...
>

That's cause they order all the GOOD golfers out on manuevers that day
I guess....8^)

    >You gotta watch out for them Marine golfers -- one shot, one kill......
    
    
    Been bonen up on that Marine Corps tradition to please the FiL eh 'Saw
    
    Some tips
    
    	Bow the head whenever you mention the name Chesty Puller
    
    	If you mention Chosin, try to combine a <sigh> and "damn"
    
    	Bring up Lee Trevino's name.  Like the millions of Bostonians who
    all saw Ted's last at bat live, all Marines who served in the 50s
    played golf with Lee, won money off him and had tacos in his backyard.
    
    	Learn the words to "When the warships come back to Manila..."

>    
>    Been bonen up on that Marine Corps tradition to please the FiL eh 'Saw
>    
>    Some tips
>    
>    	Bow the head whenever you mention the name Chesty Puller

I've found it helps if you also say "A moment of silence please...."

    
>    	If you mention Chosin, try to combine a <sigh> and "damn"

I don't mention it.  He saw some hard action in Korea and there's areas
that I know I best leave alone -- like with my dad, I don't ask questions
or pry.

    
>    	Bring up Lee Trevino's name.  Like the millions of Bostonians who
>    all saw Ted's last at bat live, all Marines who served in the 50s
>    played golf with Lee, won money off him and had tacos in his backyard.

That's cool.

Along the way I've also learned that Master Gunnery Sgt Lou Diamond Jr is
another "moment of silence please" Marine names....


Now, the ones on the Naval side, from the Silent Service, that I learned
at my daddy's knee are

	Dudley "Mush" Morton (amosp) -- Captain of the USS Wahoo

and 
	Howard Gilmore (amosp) -- Captain of the USS Growler, first US 
	submariner to win the CMH, for yelling "Take her down" as he lay 
	wounded on the bridge, unable to make it back to the hatch.


I just keep studying and studying.....


'Saw

    
>Wicked hills on that course.  A few friends and I used to do hill runs starting
>at the practice green, and looping around the outskirts of the course.  Quite a
>workout.  Golfers didn't like it much though.
    
    	=bob=
    
    		I run on golf courses all the time without any problems.
    You've got to stop picking up them little white balls and throwing them
    back to the goofers!!!
    
    JimH
    
    

    What's all this have to do with the R.I.P.topic???
    
    
    JaKe(fer Tommy)
    

The Grateful Dead are in town, in fack, right across the street.

To welcome all the Haids, they've set up drug checks on all the
interstates. Just keep on going and don't pull off at the exit.

TTom

From Fred Imus:

Q: What did one Deadhaid say to the other when he ran out of drugs?

A: Gawd this music s*cks!

You mean they play music at those events? ;-).

I've seen a couple of times back when they let you party.

TTom

    You ever see one of those runners after getting beaned by a 3
    iron,Jake?

    Nope.
    
    JaKe
    

|    You ever see one of those runners after getting beaned by a 3
|    iron,Jake?


Uhh, don't get any ideas guys...

    Ok, nexted get together I come to, we have =bob= run back and forth
    across the parking lot whilst we try to pummel him wif shots offa 3
    irons.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    	Use a 1-iron. Keep your shots low and you'll stand a better
    chance of hitting =bob=!!!
    
    

    Hey, if someone has apple treea, and we hit apples instead of golf
    balls, =bob= will last much longer, giving us more practice, and adding
    a whole new dimension to the phrase, "bobbing for apples."
    
    JaKe
    

    
    A one-iron is a good idea. It's not like we'll ever use the club or
    care if =bob='s head dents it.
    
    brews