Conference hbahba::cam_sports

      Shouldn't be to hard as long as they don't choke like other teams
    from the central.
    
      Tim

	Tim,

	One thing about choking on the old chicken bone...

	At least the one choking was invited to the table to eat!

	Bill

    
    	If I was going to choke....I wouldn't have gone in the first place.
    
    	The writting was on the wall!
    
    	WOOF!
    

    
    >>     <<< Note 61.0 by LUDWIG::WHITEHAIR "CaVs will win it all!" >>>
    >>                     -< CLEVELAND BROWNS 'DAWGS' >-

    
    >>	QUOTE FROM ART MODEL:  We have gone long enough...3 years...
    
    >>	The Browns will not miss the playoffs this year!
    
    >>	The Browns will win a division title within 3 years!
    
    >>	The Browns will get the home field advantage throughout the
    >>playoffs within 3 years!
    
    
    >>				OR
    
    >>	"I will sell the team and move out of town."
    
    
    Well, HAL, at least ya only got to wait three years before you get a
    REAL owner who may not meddle, eh???
    
    ANd only 7-100 years to get the 'Spots in the Super Bowl.
    
    JaKe
    

    

    
    If Art would ever leave the team, I would not be very happy.  I happen
    to think Art is one of the better owners in this league.  We have
    always put out a good team, even their worst of teams arn't that bad.
    Now, lets look at the owners of the Pats......on second thought....no,
    lets not.
    
    	An interesting stat - Even though the Browns have not made the
    playoffs in their last three years, they still lead the entire NFL
    with post season appearences.  And to beat that, they have been in
    the league less years than the teams that are tied with them...ie -
    Giants and Rams.
    
    	Art has vowed to be *VERY* active in this years free agency.  Look
    for the Browns to pick up some offensive linemen.
    
    	The Browns will also be looking at who will get the ball in the 
    backfield.....Vardell or Hoard.
    
    	The Browns will go with Bernie Kosar no matter what.  He *is*
    expected to have a full recovery from the surgery.
    
    	Art has expressed a *major* concern for BB to do something about
    the offense this year...expect it to get done!  It has been listed
    as his top priority this year.
    
    	I'll post the artical about the state of the Browns next week.
    
    
    	WOOF!
    

>    	An interesting stat - Even though the Browns have not made the
>    playoffs in their last three years, they still lead the entire NFL
>    with post season appearences.  And to beat that, they have been in
>    the league less years than the teams that are tied with them...ie -
>    Giants and Rams.
    
Probably the best statement one could make in light of this is

	Yeah, but what have you done for me lately......


8^)

    
    	Word comming out of New York is that the Browns will sign
    
    		Reggie White.....
    
    
    	Good move Cleveland!
    
    		
    	Go Dawgs!
    
    		WOOF!
    

    Hahahahahah. Yea Right. He wants to go to a winner. Not another
    pretender. *:^)
                

    
    	In front of more than 50 reporters, six television cameras and a
    live radio audience Dec. 30, Art Modell held one of his most
    entertaining and informative "State of the Browns" press conferences. 
    And at the same time, gave Coach Bill Belichick a ringing endorsement
    and gave himself an ultimatum.
    	Modell spoke and fielded questions strongly and cadidly for close
    to an hour.  The conference focused on four topics:
    	1.  He expects the team to win at least a division title and
    homefield advantage in the playoffs before Head Coach Bill Belichick's
    contract expires after the 1995 season, and if it doesn't happen, he
    pledged he will give up control of the Browns.
    	"I'll make this statement.  I'm putting myself on the spot by
    saying this, but I'm so positive of Bill Belichick's future here and
    that of the Cleveland Browns' organization, that if we don't get the 
    job done by the end of his contract, I will get out of football and
    leave Cleveland.  I'm so positive he's going to do it I'm not going to
    be looking for new excuses.
    	"He's the last head coach I hired.  I will not hire another head
    coach.  That's how positive, how comfortable I am.  If you know him as
    well as I do, and I know he's not the easiest guy to get to know.  I
    mean, he's no Don Rickles, let's face it."
    	The "Don Rickles" remark referred to Belichick's reputation as
    stoic and taciturn.
    	Modell was asked if the Browns had to reach the Super Bowl to meet
    his goal.
    	"I avoided saying that because I could see a headline, 'Modell:
    Super Bowl 1998 or Bust.'  All I can say is I expect this franchise to
    be an elite NFL franchise this city will be proud of.  I don't want to
    put a label on what success means.  We all know what success is, but I
    have my own designs and ambitions.  But if I can't get the job done
    with Bill, I gave you the alternative.
    	"I will say it'll take more than a wild-card spot to make me happy. 
    My first goal is to get back into the playoffs with homefield
    advantage.  That's how you get ahead in this business."
    
    
    
    	WOOF!!

    
    	2.  Modell's convinced more than ever Belichick is the coach to
    lead the Browns to a championship.
    	"I interviewed Bill Belichick in February 1991 and before I hired
    him I had an awfully good feeling I'd hired the right man.  A year
    later we were 6-10, and I was supremely confident I had found the right
    man.  A year later, at 7-9, I'm absolutely positive, beyond any measure
    of doubt, I have a winning coach who's going to bring the Browns back
    to where (they belong), and very soon, too.
    	"I've seen the man operate under adverse conditions.  I've seen the
    man bounce off the mat after one disastrous loss after another that
    took the heart out of the organization, especially after the (Dec. 27)
    Oilers game.  I feel very, very good about the future.  I'm more
    optimistic about the Cleveland Browns today than I've been in a long,
    long time.
    	"Bill has an absolute passion for winning.  He shares my passion
    for winning.  He shares the core players on this team's feeling for
    winning.
    
    
    
    	WOOF!!!

    
    	3.  Modell said the offense and offensive corrdinator situation was
    the top priority for the off-season:
    	"We have started the process of evaluating the entire organization,
    like we do every year.  Our offense, the scheme, the design,
    coordination - call it what you want - will be given top priority.  I
    have my own personal views, which I haven't even shared with Bill, and
    I owe him the courtesy of sharing it with him first."
    	Modell inferred Bilichick should delegate more of the offensive
    load.
    	"Bill didn't come in charge of the offense," Modell said.  "He came 
    in charge of the whole team.  If there's a deficiency there, we'll
    correct it, we'll cure it.  I didn't hire him as an offensive
    coordinator.  In fact, I don't believe in that.  The great head coaches
    delegated authority and stayed in their supervisory position.
    	"He wasn't hired as an offensive coordinator.  Let me suffice to
    say, we will have a more organized approach to the offensive side of
    the ball in some form, some fashion, in 1993."
    	Modell was asked what his reaction would be if Belichick doesn't
    want an offensive coordinator or tries to keep the present offensive
    scheme as is.
    	"I would want him to explain to me why we don't need somebody," 
    Modell said.  "It would be a hard sale."
    	One of the first moves Belichick has made reguarding the offense is
    to hire a new line coach.  Hal Hunter will not be back with the Browns
    and it is expected a coach will be hired who has more run-blocking
    expertise.
    
    
    
    	WOOF!
    

    
    	4.  Modell vowed to make relations between the team and media
    better.  This is significant because there's been an increasingly
    widened gap between the Browns and local media in recent years.
    	"I want to offer a New Year's resolution and apologize to members
    of the media for any things we did to offend you last year.  I want to
    pledge that a new slate will begin in 1993 and, in a reciprocal way, I
    would hope you would clean the slate, and I accept your apologies.  My
    intent is to change some of our rules regarding our media relations. 
    Hopefully, I have some ideas that'll make your job easier in covering
    us and in making us more accessible without interfering with the
    progress we want to make."
    	Modell indicated he thinks Belichick will give more direct answers
    to reporters' questions in the future.
    	"You people (reporters) are entitled to forthrightness and candor. 
    He might not tell you everything, but he should try to make your job
    easier."
    
    
    
    	WOOF!

awfully big of Art to accept their apologies......

mike_who_thinks_this_State of the "Art"_belongs in note 27....

;^)

Let's see.

 	6-10, 7-9.....


At that rate, it'll be another three years before you can begin to
think about a division title, and four or five before you can start
to think about homefield......


8^)

    
    	Hearing Art and hoping what he says, he does, really pumps you up.
    I *do* expect to see the Browns in the playoffs this comming year.  
    3 years is long enough!  
    
    	
    	WOOF!
    

    
    	The great Ozzie Newsome has been promoted to Assistant Offensive
    Coach yesterday.  Its truely great that the Browns have kept Ozzie
    with the team.  I haven't heard if the Browns have signed an offensive
    coordinator yet but with the title of Assistant Coach, one can only 
    think there is/will be one.
    
    
    
    	WOOF!

    
    	In the paper I just read....Ozzie Newsome....Assistant (to the head
    coach) of the offense.  Could this actually be the move Art really
    wanted???  I don't know.  Not sure how Ozzie will change the offensive
    scheme of things.  Just hope he does.  Would be nice to see him
    succeed!
    
    
    		WOOF!

      So just what does this mean Hal?  Does this mean he is the offensive
    coordinator or just another coach?   Assistant (to the head coach) of
    the offense means nothing to me unless I'm just missing something here.
    
      REgardless,  does this mean that they will win the division this
    year?
    
      Tim

    
    	Tim,
    		If you read the prior notes on the State of the Art.....
    Art said that there would be a change in the way the Browns run their
    offense.  Last year, Bill B. ran the show on offense.  Now, they have
    made Ozzie his assistant for the offense.  What that means or how much
    of a role Ozzie will play in the design of the offense is still a 
    question in my mind.  Sure, Ozzie knows receivers....but....does he
    know quarterbacks and runningbacks?  Art said he wanted changes.....
    
    		I'm sure there will be more to hear on this deal...
    
    	WOOF!
    

    I just heard that Bernice has been promoted to assistant coach of
    urinal scrubbers after the game at Clevescum's Municipal Sewage dump,
    er Staduium.  He says it will keep his throwing/scrub brush arm in
    terrific shape.
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Yea, Right....and your the one who has that job at Squibburg Rust
    Bucket.
    
    
    		Grrrrrrr!
    

    Nah, don't do it anymore, Hal, had enuf of it during my 4 years in the
    Air Farce, though.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Kind of funny you should mention the Air Force...while I was in basic
    training...I think the first day.  The TI was handing out duties for
    everyone and he asks.....Is there anyone here who bowls?  Boy, I
    thought this was great...I love to bowl...I'll get on his good side...
    So, I raised my hand along with one other guy.  The TI says...good, you
    two get to clean the toilet bowls....every morning.  Needless to say,
    I don't volenteer for anything anymore.
    
    
    	WOOF!

    
    	The Browns have hired the head coach from Maine.  I don't know much
    about this new Browns coach.....does anyone in here know something
    about the Maine football team?  The head coach was hired as the Browns
    offensive line coach.  Does Maine have a good running attack?  Thats
    what I would guess.  Living up to Art's objective by getting offensive
    help.
    
    
    	WOOF! (wag, wag, wag)
    

>    Living up to Art's objective by getting offensive
>    help.
    

You have to be very careful getting offensive help.  The paying customers
might not like to be offended.....


8^)

      I also saw in the paper yesterday that the browns hired an offensive
    assistant.  I thought that was Ozzie's job?  More coaches must mean
    more wins?
    
      Tim

    
    In recent Maine - Northeastern games, Maine put up a decent air attack.
    Then again Northeastern had no pass defense (they did have a passive
    defense though)
    
    I wasn't impressed though.
    
    Marc

    I cain see it now, in a couple of months we'll hear that line about the
    'Spots having 12,286 assistant coaches and being a shoe-in to win the
    AFC Central this year.
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    
    	Come on guys.....The way I look at it is.....the Browns know they
    have a problem with the offense no scoring enough points and the lack
    of a *real* running attack/blocking scheme.  So, the Browns have begun
    to address the problem.  This guy from Maine seems like a nobody but,
    I'll bet his team improved offensively durring his term there.  
    	Evidently this other guy the Browns got as offensive assistant is
    the assistant to Ozzie.
    	At least the Browns arn't just sitting around doing nothing.  Like
    other teams I know.....ie: Squeelers.
    
    
    	WOOF!

      3 offensive assistants sounds like the need for some right guard;^)
    
      What your saying by stating that you bet the offense gets better with
    this guy from Maine is that it can't be any worse?
    
      Tim

    I don't know how long the coach from Maine was there, but lately
    Maine's offense has been a good one.  Their QB Mike Buck is holding
    the clipboard somewhere in the NFL (New Orleans maybe?).  Could it be
    the end of Bernie.  College coach trades for his college QB??? 8*)
    
    Jimbo   

    
    >>	At least the Browns arn't just sitting around doing nothing.  Like
    >>other teams I know.....ie: Squeelers.
    
    HAL, the STEELERS went thru a complete change of coaching staff one
    short year ago, and the change in the team was glaring, having fone
    from 7-9 the year before to 11-5 this past year.  Changes in the
    coaching staff aren't necessary at this point.  The team is now working
    on getting the players that fit into the team plans, and unlike the
    final years of the Noll era, they're adapting the offensive and
    defensive schemes to fit the players they have, not trying to get the
    players to change to fit the systems.
    
    Next season will be a major test because the STEELERS have to play a
    division winners type schedule.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    	No word out of the Browns headquarters reguarding the Regie White
    deal.........Still think they are in the hunt.  Can't see Regie going
    to the Jets.
    
    	
    	WOOF!
    

    >>     <<< Note 61.33 by JUNCO::WHITEHAIR "Mark Price = 3 pt ace!" >>>
    >>                    -< should hear something soon. >-

    
    >>	No word out of the Browns headquarters reguarding the Regie White
    >>deal.........Still think they are in the hunt.  Can't see Regie going
    >>to the Jets.
    
    The Steelers haven't gotten into the Reggie Sweepstakes, but Why would
    Reggie even consider Clevescum???  I mean, Philly, as far as cities
    goes nowadays, sucks bigtime, so why would he want to move to
    Clevescum, the world's only inhabitated raw sewage dump?????  Maybe
    they ate the 'Spots cain fergit about signing Testicleverde and sign
    Brister away from the STEELERS and finally have somebody who'll out do
    Bernice.
    
    JaKe
    (8^)*
    

    >>  Testicleverde
    
    Green filberts?!  :-)

        Another Miahami QB on the browns squad,  and no Hal?
    
      Must be on vacation!
    
      Tim

    
    	Yes, thats right Tim,
    		
    		Testiverdi has signed a one year contract with an option
    	year.  
    		I think this is great!  Venny will work well with the 
    	Browns.  We all know how injury prone Bernie is....  The word
    	out of camp is that there is no question that Bernie is the 
    	starter and he has been told so by BB.  Venny has no quarms about
    	it either.  He knows he will get some playing time.  
    		Good move by the Browns!
    
    
    		WOOF!

>    		Testiverdi has signed a one year contract with an option


Hal, if he's gonna be your new QB, learn how to spell his name.

TestAverdE......  (which probably means green head in italian.....)


'Saw


PS  Now Cleveland has TWO loser QBs.....8^)

�    	No word out of the Browns headquarters reguarding the Regie White
�    deal.........Still think they are in the hunt.  Can't see Regie going
�    to the Jets.
    
    Reggie has stated he wants to play for a winner.  Given that I can't
    imagine him ending up in either New Jersey or Ohio.

|�    	No word out of the Browns headquarters reguarding the Regie White
|�    deal.........Still think they are in the hunt.  Can't see Regie going
|�    to the Jets.
|    
|    Reggie has stated he wants to play for a winner.  Given that I can't
|    imagine him ending up in either New Jersey or Ohio.

Reggie White's agent was on WFAN yesterday, and he gave the "short list".

Cleveland was not on it.  Neither were the NY Giants.


'Saw

    Reggie didn't say he wants to play for a current winner. I thought he
    said he wanted to go somewhere with a commitment to win...
    

>    Reggie didn't say he wants to play for a current winner. I thought he
>    said he wanted to go somewhere with a commitment to win...


Reggie's waitin' on God to tell him where to play (as if God ain't
busy enough down there in Waco, right?)

So, then Reggie's wanting to go to some place where he can do some
inner city work, and he wants to go to a winner, and he wants this
and he wants that.


If I were Reggie, I'd pick where I want to play, and then let
God guide me to where the inner city work is.  I mean, God's busy, 
he ain't got time to be looking at Tourism Guides for the NFL cities.

By the time Reggie's done with picking the city, then God should have
stuff wrapped up in Waco, and he can probably squeeze Reggie in 
between lunch with the Dali Lama, and working on Boznia.


That's my cut at it......


'Saw    

    	What if God's busy and doesn't tell Reggie who to play for before
    the draft?
    
    				/Don

>    	What if God's busy and doesn't tell Reggie who to play for before
>    the draft?
    
My guess would be that Reggie would have to make his own choice.


It's kind of like in the last blizzard we had.  I was waiting for my
regular plow guy to come and plow my driveway.   At 5pm Sunday afternoon
the plow guy called and said "all my trucks are out of order -- transmissions
are burned out -- you'll have to make other arrangements".

Here, I'd been waiting for the plow guy (God) to come and plow me (pick
the city I'm gonna play in) and then he was unable to.  So I had
to make other arrangements (Reggie will have to take a chance, grab
his cojones, and pick a place).


hth,
'Saw

    
    >>		I think this is great!  Venny will work well with the 
    
    >>	starter and he has been told so by BB.  Venny has no quarms about
    
    Uh, Er, EARTH TO HAL!!!!!   It's V I N N Y, not Venny.  And the lasted
    name is TesticleVerdi.
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    
    	The Browns sign Hessian Jones from the Vikes...
    
    	A little help for the receivers....
    
    
    
    	WOOF!
    

>    	The Browns sign Hessian Jones from the Vikes...
    

Hessian?  What a name.  The guy must be a terror on the field!    

    Hassan, I tink.

    
    The Hessian is coming, The Hessian is coming!

    The anticipation of the annual "HAL" prediction is killing me.
    
    When we gonna get it, Hal???
    
    JaKe
    
    
    

    uh JaKe why the anticipation; it'll be the same as every year. 
    
    The Crazy Met
    

I'll beat him to the punch:

WOOF, WOOF  OOOOWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOO

    
    	Can someone please tell me the Browns record in AFC championship
    	games against the Broncos.  Thanks......
    
    Claybone

Hey, I read in USA Today that the Browns have more kickoff tees than any other
team in the NFL!  This poves they will win it all!  Goes with all them
coaches and weight equipment.   I heard a rumour that they are 3 wet towells
away from replacing the Bengals as the team with most towells!

WOOOOOOOFFFFFFFF

JD_as_Hal

    Kevin Mack retired yesterday.  Who's their RB?  Vardell and Metcalf?

      They don't have a RB;^)
    
      Why did Mack retire anyway?  Did he coke it up again?
    
      Hal oh Hal, where are thow?
    
      Tim

    
    	I also was very surprised about Kevin Mack retireing....didn't
    really expect it.  I guess it was a very emotional speech.  Wish I
    could have seen it.
    
    	About those Browns.............Yes, YES, this is their year!
    	The Browns will make the playoffs this year.  
    
    	Improvement throughout the team.....great free agency signings!
    
    	QB- Bernie is in great health!  Picked up Testiverde who will be
    	a great backup.  Pillcox is still there too.
    
    	RB- Tommy Vardell, Leroy Hoard and Eric Metcalf.  I think Baldwin 
    	is still around too.  Both Leroy and Eric signed big 3 year
        contracts and are actually happy to be in training camp early.
    
    	WR- Look for lawyer Tillman to be the big man this year along with
    	Hassan Jones, Mark Carrier and Michael Jackson.  This area is the
    	most improved.  Forgot about Patric Rowe.
    
    	OL- Another area which has been greatly improved this year.  They
    	say, in Cleveland, that when the Browns got rid of ... ... dam, I
    	can't remember his name right now, but anyway, when they got rid of
    	this guy, the OL line improved three fold.  Says alot for the depth
    	last year...anyway, with the 1st round signing and some big
        pickups in free agency, Bernie will be protected!
    
    
    			Can you believe it....
    
    
    			I said....
    
    
    			BERNIE WILL BE PROTECTED!!!!!
    
    
    	I will update you on the defense in the next couple of days......
    
    
    
    		Mike Johnson signed a one year contract with the Browns
    	and is VERY happy!  So are the Browns!
    
    
    
    	WOOF! WOOF!
    
    	
    		THIS WILL BE THE BEST TEAM IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS
    
    	
    	GO DAWGS!

Yea, Vardell, Hoard Tillman Jones, all names that would strike fear 
into my heart if I were a defensive player...

=Bob=

    
    >>			BERNIE WILL BE PROTECTED!!!!!
    
    What, somebody give hime a case of Trojans?????
    
    
    JaKe
    

      Hal, You woulda loved the interview with Bernie.  He almost broke
    down in tears!!!
    
      Here is an excuse for the browns stinking (if they still do):
    
     Mack retired and everyone was to emotionally distraught to play to
    their full potential.
    
      Your Welcome,
    
      Tim

    Hey, did Michael Dean Perry return today or is he still moping about
    something Belichick said to him after practice the other day?
    
    
    What, did Belichick tell him he could only have 11 helpings at the team
    dinner that night??
    
    JaKe
    

    
    	The deal with Perry.......he doesn't like the defensive scheme of
    things......he want to be able to do what he wants on the line......
    go after the quarterback.  but, Bill wants him to stay put.  This has
    been a problem since the two have played together.  This is Perry's 
    final year on his contract and he has been getting fined $4,000 a day
    for not showing up.  Will he resign with the Browns for next year.....
    doubtfull.
    
    		WOOF!
    

    
    	preseason game #1 vs Washington...
    
    	If this game showed anything at all, it was the Browns weakness....
    
    			the secondary!
    
    
    	Bernie looked lost.....
    	Vinnie looked good.....
    	Touchdown Tommy got two touchdowns and looked good.....
    	defensive line looked good.....
    	offensive line looked better.....
    	special teams.....SUCKED!
    
    
    		WOOF!

    41-12!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!a BLOW-OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    REK

    
    	No, No, No..........a freebee.
    
    
    	WOOF!	

    Oh Hal.....
    
    Any woids o' wisdom regarding tomorrow night's Patriot - Dawg game?
    
    I remain,
    seeing if dawgbones will get lodged?
    Kev
    

		                      ____/\
                                     /-    |
                            /-------/      |
	                    \/\/\/\/|      \
                                    /            
                            /\^^^^^^
                            \_______________

             
	Yes Kev,
    		Don't bet on the Pats!  You will see a mainly Brown fan
    	attendance.  Should be interesting....
    
    
    		WOOF!

    nice graphics.......
    

    
    It's a picture of Hal's last date.
    
    brews

    dammit brews, I just blew my lunch on my screen!
    
    ;^)
    
    

		                      ____/\
                                     /-    |
                            /-------/      |
	                    \/\/\/\/|      \
                                    /            
                            /\^^^^^^
                            \_______________

             
	Browns take preseason game #2 from the Pats.....12-9.
    
    	Good running game by the Browns.
    
    	Excelent defensive line!
    
    	Better Safety coverage.
    
    	Bernie looked better.
    
    	Vinnie looked no better than Bernie.
    
    	Metcalf was great!
    
    	Score should have beaten the Pats by more but because of the 
    	offensive problem, getting the ball in the endzone...the score
    	was close.  The Browns dominated much of the game.
    
    	WOOF!

sounds like that game was one of the most boring games in NFL
history.

The Crazy Met

		                      ____/\
                                     /-    |
                            /-------/      |
	                    \/\/\/\/|      \
                            Pats    /            
                            /\^^^^^^      @#&*@~
                            \_______________

             
    
    	Your right Crazy.....very borring.....not much exciting happened.
    
    	The guys I had over the house did cheer when Bernie got sacked...
    	to them, that was excitement.  To me, its nothing new.  Ya get
    	used to it.  Then again...when your watching 3 and 4 and 5th string
    	players....what do you really expect?
    
    
    	WOOF!

    
    >>	used to it.  Then again...when your watching 3 and 4 and 5th string
    >>	players....what do you really expect?
    
    Sheeeeeeeeeiiit,
    
    Up ther in  Clevescum, all season long all they get to watch playing
    fer the Brown(spot)s(tm) are 3rd, 4th, and 5th string players, compared
    to everybody else's team!
    
    (8^0
    
    JaKe
    

    After the game the Pats and Browns swapped players.  The Browns got a
    linebacker in exchange for a nose tackle.

		                      ____/\
                                     /-    |
                            /-------/      |
	                    \/\/\/\/|      \
                   >>>>>>>>>>Jake   /                      ____
                            /\^^^^^^      Fake>>>>>>>>    /    \
                            \_______________              |JAKE|  PEEEYOU!
                                                          \____/
             

    Jake, we will see who gets the last laugh this year.....I hear that the
    squeelers can't figure out who to start at QB.....O'Donald or the     
    Cleveland cast off.......4th stringer...this year....

	Some absorootry mind boggling graphics there, Hal!  I like it 
	better when you just enter words that don't make any sense.



	billl

       billl,  are you telling us you don't know what arf arf means?:~))

 >>      billl,  are you telling us you don't know what arf arf means?:~))

	sure that's the sound of an ankle-biting, annoying resemblance
	of a dog.  Now WOOF WOOF, that's an entirly different story.
	But then again, I don't want to get REK all cranked up again.


	billl

		                      ____/\
                                     /-    |
                            /-------/      |
	                    \/\/\/\/|      \
                      Bengals>>>>>>>/            
                            /\^^^^^^     >>>>>>>pussy cats
                            \_______________

    
    	The Dawgs did it!  Game one is a win!  Awsome Defense!
    
    	Bernie did a good job and should have had better stats if it wasn't
    	for a couple of dropped passes...big ones too.
    
    	Touchdown Tommy got his first Pro TD.  A one yard run at the end of
    	the first half.  He looked good!  Something like 69 yards on the
    	day.
    
    	Michael Jackson changed his name to Dyson and got 1 TD for the day.
    
    	The DAWG defense scored 6 sacks, 2 INT's and one fumble recovery
    	for a BIG TD.  Only allowed 52 yards rushing on the day...most
    	comming in the 1st quarter.  This defense is just totally down
    	right GREAT!  
    
    	Don't be surprised to see the Browns beat the 49ers on Monday.
             

    		WOOF!

>>    	Touchdown Tommy got his first Pro TD.  A one yard run at the end of
>>    	the first half.  He looked good!  Something like 69 yards on the
>>    	day.

	Don't know who "Touchdown Tommy" is, but the guy who scored the one
	yard TD at the end of the half was Vardell, who, according to my paper,
	gained 2 yards on 2 carries.  Another HALism????


	billl

    
    >>	The DAWG defense scored 6 sacks, 2 INT's and one fumble recovery
    >>	for a BIG TD.  Only allowed 52 yards rushing on the day...most
    >>	comming in the 1st quarter.  This defense is just totally down
    >>	right GREAT!  
    
    Yeah, sure HAL, right.  Lessee how they do nexted week .vs. the 49ers,
    then you might change yer tune.
    
    That was the Lowly Bungholes the Brown(spot)s(tm) played this week, not
    a REAL contender, or even a decent football team.
    
    The STEELERS lost Sunday, but the defense rated about a B.  The offense
    again rated about a D+.  They gave the 49ers excellent field position
    too damned myuch in the firsted half, and dug themselves a hole they
    couldn't get out of.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    RE.84
    
    What paper do you get, the sports edition of "My WEEKLY READER"????

    Vardell had 60 yards on 16 carries.
    
    JaKe
    

Amazing 

Cleveland       1-0
Pittsburgh      0-1 "Clemson refs"
Houston         0-1
Cinncinatti     0-1

 Jake, TOMZAK is to BLAM!!!!!!!!!!!<

    re-.1
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    
    Funniest note in here in a long time.
    
    'Spots win their first, then go 5-10 the rest fo the season.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    >>	Michael Jackson changed his name to Dyson and got 1 TD for the day.
    
    Why, is he afraid that the kid accusing the OTHER Michael Jackson will
    realize he's got the wrong one and finger him???
    
    Or does he want his name to sound like his role model, Mike TYSON????
    
    
    Inquiring mindless and all that sh_t
    
    JaKe
    

On a serious note, why did he change his name to Dyson?


'Saw

    "In tribute to his dad" is what I heard...
    

    SOunds like a load of BS to me, with the recent developments of the
    one-gloved wonder.
    
    JaKe
    

>    "In tribute to his dad" is what I heard...

I can understand that.....

'Saw
    

      Is Hal in the Iceman's account?
    
       Tim

    
    	Michael was mandated by the NFL to change his number or face
    $10,000.00 a game fine so he changed his number from #1 to 81.
    
    	Evidently Michael's mom and dad were not married when michael
    was born.  They were married shortly thereafter but Michael never
    had his name changed.  He changed his name for his dad.  To make
    him proud of him.  
    
    	ICEMAN.....definately an imposter!  
    
    	I will now make a prediction.........The Browns will make it to
    the playoffs with either a 9-7 wild card birth or a 10-6 Central
    Division Title.   Why???  the H-factor!
    
    	Clay Mathews received a standing ovation when the names of the 
    defensive players were announced at the beginning of the game Sunday.
    
    	Once again...I just have to say it...Great Defense last Sunday!
    
    	1st and goal from the one...and...the Dawgs...stop the Bengals
    on four straight plays!  Outstanding!  We all went crazy!
    
    	Another great moment....4th and one from the one with 18 seconds
    left on the clock before half.  Bring in the big men.........Tommy
    Vardel...Touchdown!  All this infront of the DAWG POUND.
    
    
    	WOOF!

>    	Michael was mandated by the NFL to change his number or face
>    $10,000.00 a game fine so he changed his number from #1 to 81.

Did he come into the league after they imposed that number rule?

I thought if you had a number that was "out of position" before that
rule, it got "grandfathered"....


    
>    	Clay Mathews received a standing ovation when the names of the 
>    defensive players were announced at the beginning of the game Sunday.

Clay Mathews is COOL.



Did Pepper play at all?  Or did he sit out because he hasn't learned the
system yet?



'Saw

    >> Did Pepper play at all?
    
    Naw, she's still scouring Hotlanta for her one true ACC_Chris, then
    she'll play......
    
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    missin dan'l too
    Kev
    

    
    	Pepper Johnson played on special teams only.  He will more than
    likely play on defense this week against the 49ers.  He will only
    improve an already great front 7!
    
    	The word in Cleveland is that Keven Mack wants to come back and
    play for the Browns.  Art and the Browns arn't sure what they are going
    to do.  
    
    	WOOF!

      Mack to come back and play again,  after that tearful goodbye he had
    with the "boys".....  Did this guy already coke up his $$$ or what?
    Maybe thats why he quit in the 1st place.
    
      Tim

    
    	To be honest, I feel that keven Mack should stay retired and
    Touchdown Tommy do the work.  Just think, if Vardell would have played
    more last year, he would have been just that much better this year.
    I say let TT have the job.  Its not just that either....if the Browns
    pick Mack back up...they have to drop an up and comming rb like
    Baldwin.  I say no!  Keven did a great job when in his prime and I'll
    give him credit for that...but this retire/unretire crap has got to
    stop...not only in the NFL but in the NBA as well.
    
    	WOOF!
    
    	DAWGS TO EAT UP THE FOURTY-NINERS AT THE DAWG POUND!

    
    As one of 600 Bay Area Brown Backers I hope the Browns beat the 
    niners bad. People here have chased me around the office wanting a
    piece of my wallet. I also want to see the niners bandwagon unload.

    
    	Hey dude.....Bay Area Brown Backers....???
    
    	I'm going to be in San Jose, not this weekend but the two weekends
    thereafter.  Are the Backers going down to LA for the game against the
    Raiders???  Please let me know.  I was thinking of pickig up a plane
    from SF for the game on Sunday.  Or, where do the backers meet for the 
    games?  I'll need directions or a phone number to call.
                                              
    		Thanks in advance!
    
    			Hal

    
    Hey Ron!  (It's Ron, isn't it?)  ;^)
    
    Yabbut if ya try to call Hal, please remember to dial real S L O W !
    
    (It makes it easier for him to deal with reality)
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    a former terrorist of da valley myself!
    Kev
    

    -1,
    Do the Brownies still meet at "Four's" Bar near North Station?
    They did a few years back.
    
    
    MikeL
    

>    Do the Brownies still meet at "Four's" Bar near North Station?
>    They did a few years back.
    
I thought Brownies were too young to drink.      


Oh, oh, you mean the Back Bay Brown's fans!


'Saw

    
    re.105
    
    The Bay Area Brown Backer are going to Seattle this year not L.A.
    (who would want to go to L.A. on purpose anyway???) The viewing
    site I go to is San Jose Live , this is a sports bar in the Downtown
    area. The Bay Area Backers get there own section and the number  is
    408-291-2222. You coming out for training vacation or other????
    
    
    Send mail for more info
    
    Ron

    I thought Fours was now Bills territory...
    

    LAtest trade rumor:
    
    
    Gronowski to IBM fer 2 power cords and a broken down keypunch.
    
    
    JaKe
    
    

Kevin Mack will be rejoining the Browns. He's expected to rejoin the 53
man roster by the end of the month. No announcement was made about when
he might be on the active roster.

TTom

    re.113
    
    I guess they need somebody to put down the white lines at Clevescum
    Dump...er Municipal Stadium.....er, sorry, Mack's famous fer taking UP
    white lines.  I got cornfused.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    >><<< Note 61.115 by ROCK::GRONOWSKI "the dream is always the same..." >>>

    
    >>re: .112
    
    >>Trade rumor is false, IBM could not offer enough cash.
    
    Translation:  they wouldn't go above $10.
    
    JaKe
    

      San Jose Live?  Watch out for them fruit (preserves) shots Hal.
    Mixing those with Scotch on the rocks is deadly.  Be sure you ask the
    waitress if her finger is clean!  Do one of them shots and you'll know
    why I said that.
    
      Tim

    
     Now I know why I almost didn't come back this year...
    
     
    
    	The
    
    	Groaner
    
    	Is
    
    	Bothersome
    
    
    BG

    
    	Well guys, I won't be in tomorrow to brag about my Cleveland
    Browns.
    
    	I just want to let you all know.  I'll be in CA for the next 
    2.5 weeks and won't be returning till Oct 4th.
    
    	Later
    
    
    	Go DAWGS!!!
    
    
    	WOOF!

    This year is already starting to look like 86, 87, and 89, isn't it
    Paul? Even with Danny Boy and Schottenheimer gone, the principals are
    the same. Maybe with Wade in, the Broncs can win an extra one.
    
    FWIW
    
    Murph

    Brown(spot)s(tm) .vs. 49ers tonite in the Mistake by the Lake,
    Clevescum, the world's only inhabitated raw sewage dump.  Playing on
    the painted green surface of the CLevescum Municipal Sludge Dump.
    
    Bernice will unveil a new brown/orange pair of Pumps, with a nice
    chiffon playing skirt, and strapless top.
    
    Gawd I love working second shift.
    
    BTW, have the Dorks in the Pig Pound at the one end zone planned by
    bringing batteries, coolers wif snow balls saved from last winter, etc.
    for when the 49ers are entering the end zone for the 45th time in the
    game???
    
    JaKe
    

    Browns up 20-13 at the half...
    

    
    A fun game to watch, that's for sure...
    
    I'm still worried about the secondary, though.  The O-line has
    improved, but still looked shaky as well.  I would have liked to
    have seen more of the running game, as well...
    
    On the other hand, the performance of the special teams was a very
    pleasant surprise, and I liked the look of the D-line.
    
    All in all, the Browns are about where I expected them to be - in line
    for a playoff berth, but with enough holes left to prevent serious
    contention for a Super Bowl victory.
    
    Joe

      The Browns still need OL help.  Bernie was hit at least 15-20 times
    after throwing the ball.
    
      The MNF dweebs did make a funny, and that was when Kosar "ran" (used
    loosely) due to presure, and they started commenting on who he looked
    like when he was galloping around,  and the last persons name escapes
    me right now,  but I know it was a womens name.   Thought of JaKe,
    wondering just what he would say in here about that comment,  but JaKe,
    I guess you won't get to since you were working;-(
    
      I was rollin' anyway.  Got a strange look from the wife...
    
    
      Tim

    Ok what's going on here, someone told me Michael Jackson scored a TD
    last night, is that true ? and if so I thought he was Michael Dyson
    now, did he change his name, change it back, whats the story.  Couldnt
    they afford to print him a new shirt :-)
    
    Thanks in advance..
    								MaB

    
    
         Michael Jackson has changed his name back again to Michael Jackson
    because of the "overwhelming" amount of mail he has received saying
    that the kids really look up to him as MJ.
    
    
    Chappy

>    
>         Michael Jackson has changed his name back again to Michael Jackson
>    because of the "overwhelming" amount of mail he has received saying
>    that the kids really look up to him as MJ.
    

That's funny.  8^)

>                          -< prone????  Kneeling???? >-
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

He plays for the Browns, he doesn't work for DEC, (oh, uh, er, excuse me,
Digital.....)


'Saw
    

    Can someone give me Metcalf's stats from last night, rushing/Receptions
    and return Yrds.. Thanks in advance.. (paperless, NO MNF Stats for
    metcalf)
    
    							MaB

Metcalf had 12 rushes for 71 yards, caught 4 passes for 23 yards. That's
from the USA Today. I can't tell - and didn't watch all - if'n Metcalf
returned any kicks.

TTom

    
    >>Ok what's going on here, someone told me Michael Jackson scored a TD
    >>last night, is that true ? and if so I thought he was Michael Dyson
    
    Ok, Michael Jackson the Brown(spot) scored a TD lasted night, Michael
    Jackson the gloved one may have scored a young Moscovite lasted night,
    and Mike Tyson is rumored to have scored in prison lasted night with
    Bubba.
    
    Schnorttt Schittt Schleppps
    
    JaKe
    

    JaKe,
    
    do we get a triple woe next week??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    re.136
    I sure as hell hope not, but the way the offense is looking, this game
    could go 5 qtrs and end up 0-0, given the Bungholes scoring power.
    
    I gots to hope fer the defense to score a few this coming week.
    
    (8^(
    
    JaKe
    

Isn't there a leash law around here?  ;^)

I hate to admit it, but the Dawgs be fun to watch this year.  Touchdown
Tommy Vardells run was a thing of beauty.  Plus the winning TD was a real
gut call that was pulled off flawlessly.  

I cain't believe I'm saying nice things about Cleveland!

zamboni

    That was a great Football game ... With Metcalf coming to life in the
    4th qtr. and Vinny Testaverde replacing Kosar, just a great finish.
    
     

    I watched most of that darned game and didn't know the DAWGS won till
    just now...
    
    Boy, am I bummed.
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    
    Hal is out here in San Jose I think, if he calls I will give has access
    to the net.

    
    Thanks for the favor.  8^(

    
    
    No problem just tryin to help.
    

    Bernice sucked, bernice broke a heel on his new high heels, and went
    and left the other pair at the hotel, so they put Vinny Testicleverdy
    in, he shows Clevescum what a REAL QB is, not this wuss Kosar, and
    leads them to a win.
    
    Sucks, truly sucks,
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Gronowski and Hal watch day 1. (Hal might still be in CA)

The Crazy Met

    
    Had to happen sometime...
    
    After two straight "big games", the Colts take advantage of the
    Browns' weak areas (particularly the OL) and walk away with the
    win.  Kosar again has problems given no time to pass, and
    Testaverde's additional mobility isn't enough to pull off the
    win.
    
    Hopefully the OL will take advantage of the off week to work out
    the kinks.
    
    At least the Oilers and Bengals lost...
    
    Joe

    
    
    Hey
    
    
    
                 woof!
    
    
    
    
             Chappy (for Hal and Paul)

    I told Hal to call me if he wanted access to the net, he hasn't done it
    yet. He must be enjoying our fall weather out here, gonna be 90 today.
    
    	
    Ron

    Bernice should find a new supplier fer tham high heels, that's two
    games in a row wif a broken heel and having to be benched after the
    first half because of it.
    
    JaKe
    

    Vinny Greenballs weren't much better

    Iceman, what's the deal with the form feeds?  Enquiring minds and all
    that...
    
    Jimbo

    Jimbo I'm with ya.  I kinda want to read what Hal has to say about the
    Browns, but his form feeds are making me hit the next unread button.
    
    John "D cowboys" R.

			          ____/\
                                 /-    |
                        /-------/      |
	                \/\/\/\/|      \
                                /            
                        /\^^^^^^
			\_______________
---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    	Sorry there Ron, but, I forgot your phone number.  At any rate,
    	I did make it to San Jose Live for both of the games.  
    
    	The Raider game was great...the Colt game...well.....
    
    	It was kind of funny after the Raiders lost....all us dawg fans
    	just went crazy...like a bunch of kids...running around barking!
    
    	The Browns still kind of scare me though...I'd like to see some
    	real offense at the beginning of the game.  
    
    	I really think the Colts were kind of lucky in that game too.  The
    	officiating stank!!!  The Browns didn't look up for the game
    	either.  The Colts seem to have the Browns number.  
    
    	A week off should help the Browns in their upcomming battle with
    	Miami!  I look for the Browns to squeek out a victory next Sunday.
    
    	How about the defense beating up on QB's???  What a defense!!!
    
    
    	WOOF!

    Thanks for writing a note that we can read.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

>   	It was kind of funny after the Raiders lost....all us dawg fans
>    	just went crazy...like a bunch of kids...running around barking!


	Hal, I;ve never seen a bunch of kids running around barking - where
did you grow up - Romulus and Remus territory?  :^)

	Jim M.

    Browns lose...
    
    Time to go back and report more Kimball results...

    
    
    
    WOOF!!!!!!!!
    
    
    15-1
    
    
    
    NOT!!!!!!!!
    
    CHAPPY

    HALwatch Day 1!!!!
    
    GROANERwatch day 1!!!
    
    Brown(spot)s(tm) lose, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, now 3-2 and tied fer
    the lead in the AFC Central wif the STEELERS.  Showdown in 2 weeks.
    
    STEELERS on the way up, 'Spots on the way down.
    
    Lessee, what's the predickshun now fer the Clevescum teem, Groaner,
    5-11, 7-9?????
    
    HAHAHAHA
    
    JaKe
    

The thing I'm finding a little humorous is that the $27 Million Dollar
Man is now on the the bench.

Testaverde (Green Head?) is gonna lead them to the promised land....
Yeah, right....


Be interesting to see what happens....


'Saw

    I think that should be green balls, 'saw.
    
    And we should all be thankful that while the Browns went on their minor
    win streak, Hal was out of town.  We should give them a coulple day
    leeway just on that.
    
    brews

>
>    I think that should be green balls, 'saw.
>    

For some reason I thought testa was Italian for "head", but I'm probably
wrong.....


'Saw

Hal and Groaner watch: Day 2.

The Crazy Met

      REplacing Bernie when he went something like 15 for 19 and 3 sacks?
    
      Sacking is his OL and immobility.  Tessti didn't do any better.
    
      The head coach is doing the old jints don't know which qb to play
    routine....
    
      I love it!
    
      Tim

    He was 15 for 19 but under 100 yards... What's the point if it's around
    5 yards per attempt?

      re-1
    
      Doesn't that boil down to play calling, no time to throw and bad pass
    routes?  I'm assuming that Bernnie don't call his own plays.  Testie
    won't help.
    
      Not that it matters, 'cause I'm no spot fan, but typically you don't
    bench a high % passer.
    
      Tim

    I though I heard somewhere where  Bernice was calling his own plays
    this year.  Oh well, won't be calling anything but fer a pizza on
    Sunday, huh??
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Word in Cleveland is that Kosar called his own plays weeks 1 & 2, and
    then Bellichek insisted upon taking over from week 3-present, with
    the possible exception of the first drive vs. Miami.
    
    Whatever hopes the first two weeks provided have been crushed.  The
    Browns need an offensive coordinator desperately, but Bellichek
    doesn't seem willing to admit this.  With Vinny at the wheels, I
    think we're about to see the Bengals first win of the year... B^P
    
    Joe

Hal and Groaner watch day 3.

The Crazy Met

    
    Cleveland has all those coaches and no OC?  What do them guys do there?
    
    brews

      re-1
    
      The same as alot of big company managers,  nothing!

    
 >> <<< Note 61.173 by LAGUNA::MAY_BR "Ain't no cure for the overseed blues" >>>

    
 >>   Cleveland has all those coaches and no OC?  What do them guys do there?
    
    Lessee, they gots some of the following coaches, and these are just a
    few:
    
    Head coach--the one with the dirty knees
    Line coach--lines all players up after a bad game for their spanking
    Back coach--rubs the players backs and spews soothing words after they
    		lose
    Special teams coach--lines up the team to get warm-up games against
    		special teams like the cleveland home for the Criminally
    		infirmed, and the Cleveland School for the Brain Dead.
    Position Coach--his job is to make sure the players jock straps are in
    		the proper position, and their cup is installed(Bernice
    		applied for this position and wanted to be a "player-coach" 
    		but was turned down.
    
    And the list goes on and on.
    
    
    
    JaKe
    
    
    
    
    

Hal and Groaner watch day 4. And Groaner was in ::baseball at around 22:30
lasted night.

The Crazy Met

    Hal and Groaner watch day 5.  Talk about fair weather fans.
    
    Team goes south, GROANER distappears and Hal is not to be found on the
    face of the earth, either.
    
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
    
    What hypocrites.
    
    (8^)
    
    JaKe
    

    Hal and Groaner watch day 6.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Hal and Groaner watch, one full WEEK.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    re-.1
    
    Oh, the Mistakes by the Lake won yesterday, so they'll be in here in
    full force today, gushing like all hell, and no mention will be made of
    their mysterious abscences fer the lasted week.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Yuck.  All yesterday's win against Cincy did was to show just how bad
    a team the Bengals are...
    
    The Browns don't have a chance against Pittsburgh with Vinny at the
    helm - which seems inevitable.  B^(
    
    Joe

wow JaKe, you were in here almost as early as Karen.

The Crazy Met

    
    Woof
    
    
    Where are dem guys???

    yeah, but you were in ::baseball that week and always seem
    to show up when the Browns win.
    
    The Crazy met
    

     TCM,  he said entered a note.  They/him do RON when things go bad.
    
      HtH,
    
      Tim

    re: .187
    
    I know exactly what he said.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    re.185
    
    Trying the old reverse KoD trick, eh Groaner??
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    >>  What reverse KoD trick? 
    
    
       You know, where you put your head between your legs and 
    kiss your a$$ goodbye.
    
    

    
    Well, Sunday's game was yet another example of how on any given Sunday
    Eric Metcalf can beat any team.  If he just did it more than once per
    year, he'd really be worth something.
    
    Other than Metcalf, the only good news for the Browns was that
    Testaverde had a good day.  Even with Metcalf providing his heroics,
    a normal performance by Testaverde would have killed the Browns.
    
    A victory is a victory, I guess...
    
    Joe

�    Other than Metcalf, the only good news for the Browns was that
�    Testaverde had a good day.  
    
    I didn't see the game, but heard that Bernie came on in the 4th
    quarter.  Did Vinny get hurt?

easy Mac, he didn't throw any inties. Any game Vinny doesn't throw an
inty is a plus. Just like BBJ.....

not like the Steelers to loose it on Special Teams.....

;^)

    Mac, TEsticleVerde got sandwiched between Reggie Barnes and Kevin
    Greene and got his shoulder hurted.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Testaverde's out 2-4 weeks with a seperated shoulder.
    
    Joe

    
    As a browns fan I think this is good. BRING BACK KOSAR

    
    Word now is that Testaverde is out for the season.  You know, if
    Bellichek will give Kosar some leeway to call his own plays rather
    than this constant "Metcalf up the Middle" junk, the Browns might
    actually have a chance of doing something interesting this year.
    
    Joe

    The Testaverde sandwich that Barnes and Greene made was one mean
    collision, that's fer sure.
    
    Couldn'ta happened to a pukier team, IMHO.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Well that sandwich may have helped the Browns, I'd much rather have him
    at Q.B. Now if we could just get an O-line.   

    Testy is out for the year with a separated shoulder.....
    
    REK

     Ah yes...  We'll get to view Bernice in his new dress
    for the rest of the season.  I'll ventrue to predict that 
    Bernice only lasts another 2 games at which point the Clowns
    will begin their annual trip to the cellar of the AFC Central.
    Only to meet the happless Donks at the bottom heep for the season
    
    BG
    

    
    	WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF
    
    
    	Yes, I'm back!!!
    
    	Boy, you guys are bad.......beating me up when I'm not even here!
    
    	I've been in CA for the last two weeks which is the reason I
    haven't been in this note........do you really think I would miss
    beating up on Jake the Fake???  No way!
    
    	The Browns are back in 1st and in the drivers seat again!  Sure
    wish I could have been at that game.  They must have gone crazy!  The
    Squeelers suck worms.  HaHaHaHaHa!  
    
    	Glad to see Vinnie go down.  I would much rather have Bernie in
    control.  Bill B. better get his act together!  Doesn't look like he
    gets along with many of his players.  How much will Art take???  If
    the Browns make to the playoffs this year...he take it all.  If they
    don't......don't be surprised at what might happen.  This is Bernie's
    team.  Bill blew it in the game against Miami......to bitch at Bernie
    after the TD pass just because Bernie changed the play.  Bill, chill
    out!  This is the big problem in Cleveland....Bill wants to call the 
    play and doesn't want Bernie to change it.  Let Bernie do his thing.
    
    	The Browns aquired Brad Gobal...QB as backup.  Browns let David
    Brandon go.....  another one bites the dust....he didn't along with
    Bill either.  Don't expect Brandon to be out of work long.
    
    	Hey Jake.........better get used to 2nd place...maybe even 3rd.
    The Browns are on a roll.  Consider yourself lucky that O'Donell got
    out of the pound.....alive!
    
    	In every game the Browns have played except last weeks....the Dawgs
    have torn apart the opposing QB's.  Not a nice thing to know before
    Cleveland comes to town.
    
    	Next up.....DENVER.....may Eitherway's fate be the same as the 
    others.  
    
    	GO DAWGS!
    
    		WOOF!

    The dogs have done ok, but dont count houston out just yet, they should
    win there next 2 so come Nov 21 Cleveland and Houston will be playing
    for the lead in the division (Im assuming Denver beats cleveland :-) ).
    So a houston wins puts Houston and Clevelnad at 6-4 with the Tie Break
    going to houston, where will Pittsburg be, theyll be at Denver hoping
    to move to 6-4.  This is the most wide open division right now, and Id
    say Cleve/Hou/Pitt all have a shot, Im going to guess cinncy is out of
    the hunt for the aft cent :-).  This was definatly a hugh win for
    cleveland, a win with 2 Punt returns for TD's is almost no exsistent
    in the nfl, but cleveland pulled one off here, and its going to keep
    them right in the hunt.  
    
    Id say cleveland is more of a threat now that the QB controversy is
    over, this will give kosar more time to think about the game and less
    time worrying about when he's going to get pulled.  If anything Detroit
    should have tought the league that you cant swith your qb's around
    every week and expect to win.
    
    Funny I was out on vacation one week when the bulls lost a few games
    and I was absoulutly chastised and I didnt even have a term available
    to me :-)
    								MaB

    Come December, Clevescum will fade off into oblivion, having brought
    Brian Sipe out of retirement because their O-line won't protect QB's
    anymore.
    
    Hal, see me offline about a p_name wager.
    
    JaKe
    

      Hal,  Are you sure its the spots defense that is causing QB's to go
    down, or just the painted sand?
    
      Marino went down because 6" of sand gave way when he was trying to
    plant his foot to throw the ball.
    
      I think  the NFL should fine modell or clevlend until they put in
    real grass or the fake crap.  At least the injury rate wouldn't be so
    high.
    
      Speaking of high,  I saw a commercial with Joe Thiesman sitting in
    the pound with some that was a lune wif a dog bone in his mouth.  Does
    this portray Clevland fans in general?
    
      This will be close game with clevland losing.  The spots won't have a
    good enough running game to keep up.
    
      Tim

    
    	Out of all the games this year, O'Donnel was the only QB to come
    out with no injury.  Marino's injury may have been caused because of
    the newly layed grass over the infield.  Next year there won't be a
    problem with the Indians getting their own stadium.  The grass should
    take over the summer with no problem.  Model plans on bringing in the 
    stands along the sidelines for next year.  I'm sure there will be lots
    of improvement over the next few years since the Indians won't be
    there.
    	Now, reguarding the pound:  Everyone wishes they could be a *real*
    Dawg!  USA Today rates the Crush and Rush #3 in the AFC.  Surely the
    stats will be better after this weeks game.  Denver can't run!
    	This should be a good game Sunday.  My only problem will be that I
    will be on the plane again durring the game.  I stop off in Denver
    before getting to San Jose.  I'll be wearing my Browns coat when I get
    off the plane!  
    	The way I see it ... The Browns will mix it up on offense and break
    it open with the pass.  2nd half will be all run for the Browns.  The
    Broncos will just pass, pass, pass.  Hopefully there will be enough
    pressure on Eitherway to make him make mistakes.
    	The Browns will win this one in the end on a Matt Stover field goal
    and an Eitherway interception.
    
    	The DAWGS will be out in force!  The stadium will be sold out!
    Over 80,000 fans will go crazy!  Look for Leroy Hoard to have a big
    game.
    
    	WOOF!
    

      The Browns will have to pass.  Denver has a great rush defense,  but
    their pass defense sucks.  Of course they are going against a mediocre
    spot OL,  so they may get another few sacks this weekend.
    
      You sure are spending alot of DEC $$$ there Hal (-)
    
      Tim

    They take sewage sludge, pump it into the stadium in Clevescum, paint
    the crap green and call it turf.
    
    Then, ya take 80,000 "fans" who bring and eat and throw dog bones, fill
    up the stadium with them, and the cumulative IQ of the stadium goes
    DOWN by 42 points.
    
    The whole city of Clevescum has been overcome by the noxious fumes of
    their industry.  The rivers there are nearly flammable, as the Cuyahoga
    river was some year back when it caught fire, and anybody who moves
    away from there should be first commended for their brains in making
    the decision, and then quaranteened fer about 25 years until the
    toxicity flushes out of them.
    
    JaKe
    

JaKe tell us how you REALLY feel.

The Crazy Met

so when do those kiddies start pulling on your beard??

Since 1971 the bronco's have only lost twice in the city of Cleveland municipal
Stadium. The last loss was in 1989 and we won't talk about the browns officials 
changing the directions to hinder a feild goal attempt. 

I think the Browns have a strong Defense this year, nothing stronger than the 
Raiders, Chargers, Cheifs. The Running attack is much inproved in the last
3 weeks with Rob Bernstine (bear) coming along very well. 

Only 1 suggestion to any cleveland fan .....


DON'T LET ELWAY GET THE BALL WITH 2 MINUTES LEFT IN THE GAME WITH A CHANCE TO 
WIN.

    
    Hal
    
    Give me a call while you are out here . I will get you on the net so 
    you can yank chains after the Browns beat the doinks.
    
    Ron

    re: .212
    
    If Hal had any guts - ha! - he would call and note now that the Browns
    were massacred by the Broncos. 
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    Well the offer is still open , god that game inhaled. To add to the
    insult they pre-empted the game here on the left coast to put on the
    patriots......ouch.

      Groaner/Hal day watch 1?

    ESPN is reporting that Kosar has been waived.

      Just heard on the RA-dio that Kosar was just cut.  Any confirmations? 
    Tampa, faiders, lams, KC, and cinnci are a few teams needing a QB.  I
    give the faids the nod, they like has beens (-)
    
      Tim

      Notes banging........re-last 2
    

    I don't git it.  Who's gonna play QB now?

maybe they'll take after boxing and just select some guy from 
the stands.

The Crazy Met

This is quite a surprise, especially based on what I saw on HBO's NFL
program on Saturday and all the hype about how they both had contract
extensions.  Unless this is a cruel MrT-type hoax...


Much as I like Bill Belichick I'll say this:  he's an ASS for doing this.
Belichick ain't no offensive guy and it sounds like his ego got hurt
because Bernie was checking off too much at the line.

As usual, the Browns look like a bunch o' buffoons.....if this is true
and not a MrT-type "innocent collij prank"


'Saw

>>As usual, the Browns look like a bunch o' buffoons.....if this is true
>>and not a MrT-type "innocent collij prank"

Article 7311 of clari.sports.football:
From: [email protected] (UPI)
Subject: Browns release Kosar
Copyright: 1993 by UPI, R
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 13:43:47 EST
Location: ohio
ACategory: sports
Codes: ysfpuxx., &sfpuoh., //ns--s/, tnrb...., ns--s
Note: urgent
Lines: 7

	CLEVELAND (UPI) -- Cleveland Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar has been
released by the Browns.
	In a terse statement, the Browns announced Monday that Kosar, who
recently signed a multi-million dollar contract, had been released.
	Kosar was in his ninth year with the Browns, but differences with
coach Bill Belichick about the offense apparently led to the Browns'
action.

What will happen with Bernie?  Will Marty Schottenheimer try to sign
him as insurance against an ailing Joe Montana?

Jerry

>What will happen with Bernie? 
  
  I suspect a lot of teams would like to sign him. In fact I wouldn't 
  even mind it if the Steeler's dumped that stiff, Tomzak and got Bernice
  to wear Black n Gold. But he'll probably want way to much money and I think
  he's good enough to play first string for a lot of teams.

  I predict Bernice will end up in Tampa Bay.

	Keith

  
>>  I suspect a lot of teams would like to sign him. In fact I wouldn't 
>>  even mind it if the Steeler's dumped that stiff, Tomzak and got Bernice
>>  to wear Black n Gold. But he'll probably want way to much money and I think
>>  he's good enough to play first string for a lot of teams.


	Keith,  you need your mouth rinsed with a warm Iron City for talk 
	like that!  "Bernice in Black and Gold"...perish the thought.

	Next you are going to tell me that Mean Joe Greene is coaching
	on a team other than the Steelers.


	billl

Okay, it ain't a prank.

WOW....   

Yeah, he'll probably end up in Tampa Bay.  


This move will haunt Cleveland.....

 
I'll bet WFAN is buzzing over this......


'Saw

    Bernice is gone from Clevescum?????
    
    Belichick mudta had something put in his coffee!!
    
    Will HAL ever return to this note now that his HERO is gonzo????
    
    The Brown(spot)s(tm) are now going to go into a tailspin towards the
    bottom of the AFC Central.  An just in time!!!!
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    
    JaKe
    

    
    What about Hal?  I'm genuinely concerned about our friend's mental
    state right about now...  ;-)
    
    glenn
    

this wouldn't have happened if art modell was still alive.
what a #%$*&@ bummer
dr.a

Hal is in California this week. thankfully Northern California or he
might go to Malibu and burn himself and everything thats left :-)

Was Kosar's contract guaranteed? partially guaranteed??

The Crazy Met

>this wouldn't have happened if art modell was still alive.

huh??

The Crazy Met

    
>>this wouldn't have happened if art modell was still alive.
    
    Uh, Art IS alive.  Maybe Art was having second thoughts about paying
    Bernice all that donero, and Bernice only performing as an average
    individual.  Maybe he found out Bernice was spending too much of the
    money for new "wardrobe" items at Frederick's of Hollywood.  Maybe he
    didn't like the fack that Bernice's game "heels" were 4" longer than
    they should have been thus hampering Bernice's ability to evade
    passrushers, and to get a stable stance when setting up to throw.
    
    JaKe
    

>> >this wouldn't have happened if art modell was still alive.

>> huh??

  Well, it's true that his heart is still tickin. But a lot of us medical 
  experts here in SPORTS, think he's brain dead.

  Billl, yer right. I'll have to plead temporary insanity. But if'n I get 
  my mouth washed out with an Iron, could it at least be cold.

	Keith

    Yabut I'm serious.  Who IS gonna play QB the rest of the sesaon for da
    Browns?

	Now Bernie can complete his merchandising of a new Fall/Winter line of
dresses for Wards. His main competition is the Jaclyn Smith collection for 
K-Mart. A spokesman for the Smith group was very comcerned over the possibilites
of Bernies new line of "Sack" dresses with matching FauPumps.

 Cadzilla2

    
    >>Yabut I'm serious.  Who IS gonna play QB the rest of the sesaon for da
    >>Browns?
    
    Are the rumors true that seen at the Mistake by the Lake fer tryouts
    were Brian Sipe and Mark Malone?????  cliff Stoudt is rumored to have a
    plane ticket to clevescum, too!!
    
    (8^)
    
    JaKe
    

    
>>this wouldn't have happened if art modell was still alive.
>
> huh??
    
    I took this as a ripoff of Charlie Finley's (or was it Bill Lee's?) 
    famous line of "this wouldn't have happened if Bowie Kuhn were still 
    alive..."  Get with it, TCM...
    
    glenn
    

    BTW - the radio reports here say the contract was *NOT* guaranteed.

    
    Re .227 (paraphrased)
    
  > The Browns are now going to go into a tailspin towards the bottom of
  > the AFC Central.
    
    Agreed.  Why they would release Kosar is beyond me; Bellichek
    apparently believes that it's easier to stick a square peg in a
    round hole than to find a square hole...
    
    The Browns' QBs are Todd Philcox and Brad Goebel.
    
    Someone's going to get a good QB cheap out of this...
    
    Joe
    

    
    
    Todd Philcox.....man o the hour

re: .240

how do you figure that someone will get a good, chepa QBout of this??

The Crazy Met

    
    Re .240
    
    Kosar is a good QB; not top-drawer, but his strengths make him a good
    match for many teams.  And he's not going to cost any players or draft
    picks, only money; even then, I don't think he'll command so much as
    to be problematic for most teams.
    
    BTW, I believe that his _current_ contract is guarenteed, only the
    extension he signed earlier this year is not.
    
    Joe

so if his current deal is guaranteed then can any team sign him for this
season at the minimum - similar to baseball - and the Browns pick up
the rest? anyone know how this works??

The Crazy Met

	Bernie "Cement Shoes" Kosar proved this year that he doesn't have
it anymore, not that he had much anyways. Didn't Vinny "Even Tampa doesn't
want me" Testaverde replace Bernice in two games with the Browns behind?
Bringing them back in the 4th quarter to victory. Who was quarterbacking
when Metcalf ran back 2 punts for td's against the Squeelers? I think it
was Vinny. Point I'm trying to make is that the Browns record is overrated.
they are currently 5-3 and could have lost the 3 games I mentioned and be
2-6. The Browns offense is not producing leaving there defence on the field
too much.

Ron

I don't think football has rules like in baseball TCM because most of the
contracts are NOT guarenteed. My guess is that any team can sigh him for
whatever and he still gets the $$ from Cleveland until his current deal 
is through...

I don't think he'll end up in Tampa because Erickson is doing a pretty decent
job at QB this season and they aren't platyoff bound. I'd say he has a better
chance of landing in any of Chicago, Miami, Minny, New Orleans, Philly, or even
Washington. Teams that think they can win it all this year or next. 

I'd lay good money on him heading back to Florida or New Orleans...but he'd get
crushed against the turf in NO and be out with a concussion faster than you can
say Wade Wilson....

I'm sure the switchboard is lighting up in the mistake by the lake....

Metz

re: .245

their/there/they're alert

The Crazy Met

    >>>Yabut I'm serious.  Who IS gonna play QB the rest of the sesaon for da
    >>>Browns?
    
    Millen, Hobson, Erickson, Flutie?  

�    BTW - the radio reports here say the contract was *NOT* guaranteed.
    
    NFL contracts rarely are.

    
>>�    BTW - the radio reports here say the contract was *NOT* guaranteed.
    
>>    NFL contracts rarely are.
    
    But, with the advent of free agency in the NFL, guaranteed contracts
    are being given out more and more.
    
    JaKe
    

    Heard Bernice on the radio during MNF tonight.  Said he's really
    dissappointed that he was released and says Belichick has a lot of
    moral problems right now on the 'Spots.  He said the "diminished
    skills" and "not throwing well anymore" arguments are a crock of dung.
    
    then Greg Gumbel said something about Belichick will be there fer a
    while because he just got a contract extension, to which Bernice
    replied, "yeah, but so did I."
    
    Bernice went on to say that the thing that makes him feel the worst is
    the fack that he
    
    Just got a whole new set of evening gowns in Brown and Orange, with
    matching pumps.  He said the special orange and brown strapless
    designer gown cost him over $2000, and he's pissed and may sit in the
    Dawg pound nexted home game and throw the brown and orange high heels
    at the 'Spots.
    
    JaKe
    

    > moral problems
    
    JaKe does that mean that his players are sleeping around or somethin'
    ????
    
    :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    Re .245
    
  > Bernie "Cement Shoes" Kosar proved this year that he doesn't have
  > it anymore, not that he had much anyways.
    
    About the only thing Kosar hasn't done well this year, that he has in
    the past, was to hit the long bombs.  He seemed a bit off on those, and
    that might be a real decline in skill.  But he still hit the short-to-
    medium range passes, still reads defenses very well, and still avoids
    intereceptions.
    
  > Didn't Vinny "Even Tampa doesn't
  > want me" Testaverde replace Bernice in two games with the Browns behind?
    
    Yes - in Oakland, where he managed a comeback in spite of a so-so
    performance, and in Indianapolis, where he made a winable game
    unwinable.
    
  > Point I'm trying to make is that the Browns record is overrated.
  > they are currently 5-3 and could have lost the 3 games I mentioned and be
  > 2-6. The Browns offense is not producing leaving there defence on the field
  > too much.
    
    Absolutely - and it has been since the second week of the season.  The
    first two weeks, when Kosar was given much more leeway to call his own
    plays, the Browns offense was a bit better.  Not great, by any stretch -
    the OL still isn't good enough to claim that with anyone at QB - but
    decent, at least.
    
    I'd guess a 2-6 second half right now... B^(
    
    Joe

    Hal and Groaner watch... Day 2...
    
    REK

I too agree that with Bernie at the helm, checking off when needed, the
Browns offense was better.  Bellichick doesn't know offense.  He's a defensive
wizard, but he needs an offensive coordinator.  

He made an issue of Bernie checking off, and then released him.  Poor move.


'Saw

    I can recall a few years back while traveling thru Ohio on the way to
    Michigan (or back) listening to Browns play an important game,
    possibly a playoff game(Jets?) and Bernie engineering and last ditch
    comeback drive to salvage a win (I won't say of Elwayian proportions).
    
    He certainly showed a lot of guts that day.
    
    But he's no Otto Graham

	Interesting stat they had lasted night. To sorta backup the
diminishing skills theory. In Bernie's last 16 starts the Browns are 5-11.
One of those wins is when he was replaced by Testaverde. Two more of those
wins were against Cincinati. I would guess that 16 starts brings you back
to the '91 season. Maybe a change will be good for him, I guess quite a few
teams have already contacted his agent. Todd Philcox will be the starting
QB for the Browns. ESPN also reported that the Browns might be signing
Tom Tupa later this week.

Ron

    One of the locals interviewed a guy from WWWE this morning and he said
    that Kosar was changing the plays in the huddle during Sunday's loss. 
    You can get away with audiblizing, but he was outright changing them in
    the huddle and they still weren't getting anything done.
    
    Mike

    
    Re .258
    
    Interesting... the word out of Cleveland is that the final drive was
    when Kosar was changing the plays.  Supposedly Kosar and Jackson drew
    out the play that went for a touchdown in the dirt.  Don't know if
    there's anything to this or not...
    
    I think it's clear that Kosar's abilities and Bellichek's offensive
    ideas don't work together.  Seems clear to me that the best solution
    would have been to tailor the offensive plan to Kosar's strengths, but
    Bellichek doesn't seem willing to do that, which isn't going to win
    games.  B^(
    
    Joe

>    I think it's clear that Kosar's abilities and Bellichek's offensive
>    ideas don't work together.  Seems clear to me that the best solution
>    would have been to tailor the offensive plan to Kosar's strengths, but
>    Bellichek doesn't seem willing to do that, which isn't going to win
>    games.  B^(
    

Bellichik doesn't know offense.  He's great on defense.  The Giants
proved that in 1986.   

He should have an offensive coordinator there, but for some reason (ego?)
doesn't want one.

'Saw

I thing the no Montana Chiefs will make a offer for a single season for Bernie 
to come home under Marty Shotenhiney. 

      It looks like the Broncos helped this decision!! (-).  Bernie can't
    beat them.
    
      Tim

    The really funny part of this releasing of Bernice thang is who the
    'Spots signed yesterday to take Bernice's spot
    
    
    TOMMY TUPA!!!!
    
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    
    Look out bottm of the AFC Central, the 'Spots are going to be falling
    in fast.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Rumor has Kosar going to the Cowboys...
    
    Joe

    Rumor confirmed.  Dallas has picked up Kosar.  I think this is a great
    move on JJ's part as Dallas has a tremendous offensive line that will
    provide protection to an immobile QB like Kosar.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

this life-long browns fan hopes they get thrashed by
the seahawks and everybody else they face (even the steelers, JaKe)
until bellicheck gets fired.

and please don't let bernie land in dallas...cannot root for j.johnson.

lotsa browns paraphrenalia for sale, cheap
dr.a

    Here in Pittsburgh, we're only 2-1/2 hours from Clevescum, and when the
    wind is right(or should that be "wrong") we can smell it.
    
    One of the people in the office here lives about halfway between here
    and the Mistake on the Lake.  He was listening to the sports talk shows
    the past couple of days and said that the 'Spots fans are bitching
    bigtime about Belichick and the Clevescum mgmt.  Many have said they
    will not go to anymore 'spots games, and are planning on switching
    their team allegiance to, get this, the STEELERS.
    
    Glad to see they're finally thinking of following a REAL team.
    
    JaKe
    
    

    
  >>  Here in Pittsburgh, we're only 2-1/2 hours from Clevescum
    
      Gee, there's another big selling point for Pittsburgh.    
    
    

detroit would be a better choice to switch allegience to, 
but they got the right idea, JaKe.
boycott the bastids 'til modell and bellicheck get gone.
dr.a

The funniest thing to me is the way Pittsburgh and Cleveland folks go
at it about how shitty the other city is.

From what I've seen of both cities, they've come a long way and neither
are as bad as say, Bridgeport CT.


Now, getting back to the Browns fiasco, I think that Bellichick is wrong,
dead wrong, and was reacting more out of some Napoleonic complex "I'm
the coach, I'm the coach", than out of any brainpower.

Anybody knows that you build an offense around your assets, and lets face
it, Kosar was an asset to the Browns.  Yeah, he wasn't mobile, and he
threw funny, but he was the least intercepted QB ever.   

Bellichick didn't know enough offense to build an offense around anything
and he was too proud to get an offensive coordinator.....


And I used to like him too....  This move was dumb.


'Saw

    I wonder if he'll start against Phoenix this week since Aikman is hurt.

    What ever happen to Hugh Millan, the old Pats QB?
    
    REK

    Hugh Millan was a big dissapointment in training camp this year.  He's
    listed as 3rd string on the depth chart behind number 2 Jason Garret.
    
    I suspect he will be cut before the weekend.
    
     - Bob Roper

    
    A friend of mine is a Steeler fan (still owes me a case of Becks from
    the first game)said he would start a rumor that Bubby Brister was
    coming to Cleveland.He Was also gonna bring his mum. 

I'm kind of hesitant to put this in here, but I suppose it could be
true.

In one of the Internet news group, someone is saying that ESPN has
learned that the Browns has signed Ray Handly as assistant head
coach, and that he will provide consultation or something like that
to Belicheck for the offense.  There was also something about him
being involved in improving player relations.

Yeah, I know.  It sounds like BS, but this is kind of a BSy conference,
so I thought I'd put it in here.

Jerry

Jerry --

Save that one for April.......8^)

>>           <<< Note 61.276 by CAM3::WAY "You can't polish a turd" >>>

>>Save that one for April.......8^)

April?  Who's April?

Jerry

P.S.  I had a feeling that a Giant's fan might reply to this.;-)

>    and the Mistake on the Lake.  He was listening to the sports talk shows
>    the past couple of days and said that the 'Spots fans are bitching
>    bigtime about Belichick and the Clevescum mgmt.  Many have said they
>    will not go to anymore 'spots games, and are planning on switching
>    their team allegiance to, get this, the STEELERS.

  Where's Hal when you really need him ? I'll be sittin at the edge of my
  terminal waitin fer Hal's reply to this gem.

	Keith    

    
 >> Where's Hal when you really need him ? I'll be sittin at the edge of my
 >> terminal waitin fer Hal's reply to this gem.
    
    Nah, the HALWatch will reach 300 before he gets in here, or about the
    time the 'Spots hire 59 more assistant coaches next summer in
    preparation for another "fine" season.
    
    JaKe
    

The sad part is that inept coaching will cost the browns what
COULD have been a fine season.

This move with Kosar will blow any chance the browns had.....


hahahahaha.......


'Saw


PS April who?  Why Miss April of course.......

    Boy you guys have short memories.  Hal is out on the West Coast and
    away from a terminal.

      Ok Hal is covered,  but Groaner isn't!
    
      Have the Browns ever beat the Broncos?  Tweeking question for Iceman.
    
      Tim

Well, it certainly seems that Bill Belichick blew it bigtime in Brownsland.

I mean, when you lose to the Seahawks, 22-5 something is seriously wrong.

Without a doubt this will rank as one of the all-time stupid decisions
in SPORTS.  And the saddest part for Browns fans was that, no matter what,
the Browns were in first place, with a promising future for the rest of
the season.   If I were them, I'd be looking to find another team to
root for now....

The funniest part is that Modell backed this thing up.  I mean, he
tacetly approved letting Bernie go.   That's pretty wild....


Man, I'm glad I'm not a Browns fan......


'Saw

�The funniest part is that Modell backed this thing up.  I mean, he
�tacetly approved letting Bernie go.   
    
    It sure saved him a bundle of money.

  HALwatch day ....

   Could someone help me out ? I've forgotten how many days it's been.

	Keith

    
 >> HALwatch day ....

 >>  Could someone help me out ? I've forgotten how many days it's been.

    I think it cain almost be "HALWatch Week ?" as opposed to "day".
    
    JaKe
    
    

Hal's like on vacation or something out in Northern California....FYI.


'Saw

    Yeah, but we are now in HALWatch week 3, cause he was lasted in here on
    the 3rd of Nov.
    
    JaKe
    

Yeah, but vacations and stuff don't count, and all that crap happened while
he was on vacation.....

He told us (or someone did) that he was going to be away.....


'saw

    I thunk it were on business on the left coast.
    
    JaKe
    

  With HAL being a true Sportaholic and Dog Pounder, one would expect him
  to call off his vacation n book an emergency flight back to the
  Mistake by the Lake. And then get his butt into this notes file where he 
  belongs. This last week and a half has been an incredible time for
  Browns fans, considering the Bernice affair and the fact that some of them 
  are jumpin ship and startin to wear Black n Gold.

	Keith

    Hal is in a part of the West Coast where if he were manly 
    enough to take his lumps he could EASILY get access to the net.
    
    The Crazy Met
    
    ps to Kev: It is not really 1:05AM. Where I am it is 2:05PM. If
    you see me noting at 2PM (time stamp that is) then
    it means stuff over here ain't goin' well.
    
    

       <<< SWECSC::DISK$PELLE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]AMERICAN_FOOTBALL.NOTE;4 >>>
                   -< American Football all over the world. >-
================================================================================
Note 358.27               Cleveland Browns (1993-1994)                  27 of 32
PFSVAX::JACOB "Ho, Ho, Freakin' Ho!!!"               14 lines  16-NOV-1993 00:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    >>Kosar didn't throw many TDs but doesn't he have a real low int. rate?
    >>(it was Modell who canned him,wasn't it?)
    
    One of the lowest INT rates of all time.
    
    Everything I've read was that it was Bellichick that started the ax
    swinging, cause he didn't like Kosar's will to check off plays at the
    line, which he does frequently, and well, because he reads defenses so
    well.  Bill B. and he didn't see eye to eye on the matter and Bill B.
    initiated the release.  Dumb move, if'n ya ask me.
    
    JaKe
    
    

    re.294
    
    Now who the hell's been in my account?????
    
    
    Santa_JaKe
    

    	My guess is that Bellichick made a deal with Modell that if he
    scrapped Bernie he would get the 'Spots in the playoffs.  My other guess
    is that Bill will be looking for employment at the end of the season.
    
    				/Don

Bill B. committed one of the biggest errors in judgement of all time.

Further, he let personal feelings get in the way of putting a winning
football team on the field.   

Bottom line, he blew it.....

I guess all that new equipment, and a staff of coaches for coaches can't
make up for one bonehead move by the head man....


'Saw

i hope they gave belicheck his well-deserved game ball
sunday in seattle

dr.a

>i hope they gave belicheck his well-deserved game ball
>sunday in seattle
>
>dr.a

yeah....really.....

    Got a phone call today at home from our ol' SPROTSter, --dan'l.
    
    He said "hi" to alla younzes.
    
    He wanted me to pass on a message to Groaner(whose out there, but
    ashamed to show his face now that the 'Spots are in a free fall) and
    HAL.
    
    From --dan'l:
    
    "ain't it nice to see that the Browns have conceded that the Steelers
    are the better team by throwing in the towel at the halfway point of
    the season, when the teams were tied at 5-3.  Even NPR, the ultra
    liberal yuppy station ran a feature saying how bad the Browns have
    always been to their players, and what a bonehead move releasing Kosar
    was.  they also said that it was thru mistreatment that the Browns
    'forced' Jim Brown into retirement.  Jim Brown was quoted as saying
    that he asked the Browns to allow him to report 2 weeks late to summer
    training camp so that he could finish a movie he was working on, and
    the Browns refused, so Jim retired.  Nice to see that the Cleveland
    Browns are keeping with tradition and treating the players like sh_t."
    
    Amen
    
    Santa_JaKe
    

    HALwatch, Month1 , week 4, day 5
    
    JaKe
    

Boy, could the Browns suck any worse than they do right now?

Does Bellichick feel like the ULTIMATE A**HOLE?

Can the Dog Pound hurl those batteries far enough to hit him at the bench?



The saga continues....

�Does Bellichick feel like the ULTIMATE A**HOLE?
    
    Didn't Bellichick recently say (after the firing of Bernie and the
    Browns losing their next 3 games) that this team is headed in the right
    direction?
    
    Maybe these Giants coaches are overrated.

|�Does Bellichick feel like the ULTIMATE A**HOLE?
|    
|    Didn't Bellichick recently say (after the firing of Bernie and the
|    Browns losing their next 3 games) that this team is headed in the right
|    direction?


Don't think so.  I don't know for sure.

    
|    Maybe these Giants coaches are overrated.

Hardly. 

If you tried to play wing, would you be successful?

Bellichick should've swallowed his pride, hired an o-coordinator who
knew something about offense, and let the guy handle it.  He should not
have let his personal feelings interfere with his coaching.


'Saw

 
    The guys covering the Pats game for NBC quoted Bellichik as saying that
   Browns were moving in the right direction. They joked that if they were
   coaching they'd prefer to be moving in a winning direction. Marty Schott-
   enheimer's gotta be belly laughing every times he reads the sports page.

    
    	Hello All........
    
    	Well, I guess I should comment on the resent goings on with the
    Browns.....
    
    	Yes, I'm pissed!  I too believe Bill B. made a huge mistake.  I
    also can't put all the blame on him either.  I'd have to say that
    Art Model is just as much to blame.  I was very surprised by the
    release of Bernie.  Yes, he was my man!  Through thick and thin, I
    would support him.  In my mind, he was one of the best quarterbacks
    the Browns have ever had.  At least in my time.  He was the only
    hope the Browns had of reaching the playoffs this year.  Yes, he
    couldn't run around the pocket like many other quarterbacks but he
    knew where his receivers were and he knew where the defenders were.
    So, if he was sacked, there was no one open.  At least I wouldn't 
    go through a game seeing 3 or 4 INT's and saying at the end of the 
    game...."the quarterback lost the game for us".  Now, thats all I
    can say.  I don't have much faith in Philcox.  I don't have much faith 
    in Testiverdi either.  Sure they may have one good game or two, but
    for the most part....the games they play in will be poor ones.
    
    	My faith in the Browns organization have dwindled much over the 
    last few weeks and I've been doing alot of looking back.  I've looked
    back to when Ernest Byner was traded and when Webster Slaughter and 
    Regie Langhorn were let go or not pursued.  Very depressing!  A once
    great team has been tourn apart.  Why?  Because Art Model wants to
    make Bill B. happy?  What about the fans?  I'm actually very surprised
    that Clay Mathews is still on this team.  Also, I'm surprised that
    Michael Dean Perry is still on this team.  I honestly don't expect them
    to be there next year.
    
    	Right now I agree with the rest of Cleveland......Bill must go!  I
    also think that Art must go too.  It would be better for the Browns to
    have new management, new ownership and new coaching.  Instead of
    getting better, this team seems to be going in the wrong direction.  I
    mean, how many years are left in Testaverdi.  Not many.  Is Pilcox the
    next Browns QB of the future?  I think not.  Where is this team going?
    As Jake said........the bottom.  And to think that this all started
    with the team tied in first place.  And to think that one of the
    brightest QB's in the league was just released...for nothing...but ego.
    
    	I've thrown in the towel for this year.  I'll even be surprised if
    the Browns win another game this year.  The whole team is in dissarray.
    Bill has taken a tight team and torn it into shreads.  Is there
    something going on behind the sciens?  Maybe.  Does Art want to move
    out of Cleveland?  Maybe he will try and get a new team to own in the
    next expansion.  Hopefully he will and with the new team...take the
    coach with him.  At first I thought Bill would be good for the Browns.
    But, the guy don't know how to get along with anyone....he can't get
    along with the press and he can't get along with any of the players.
    
    	I'm still a Browns fan though and though.  I'm not going to throw
    out my Cleveland stuff.  I support them through the tough times, but
    when the tough times are caused by the owner and coach....I have a 
    tough time.  Very depressing indeed.  Hopefully the Browns will be able
    to bounce back next year....I'm sure it won't happen this year.  This
    team has gone through too much and won't recover.  
    
    
    	BILL MUST GO    BILL MUST GO    BILL MUST GO    BILL MUST GO
    
    
    	I will not however turn into a Dallas fan.  However, I will remain
    a Bernie Kosar fan.  I don't honestly think he will be with Dallas next
    year but I hope he gets his superbowl ring this year.  It would be only
    fitting.  It would be more fitting to see Troy go down and see Bernie
    lead the Cowboys to the superbowl.  IN YOUR FACE BILL!
    
    	THE DAWGS HAVE BEEN LET LOOSE.....BUT THEY WILL BE BACK.....

Nice note Hal.


After reading your note I know EXACTLY what you feel, because it's what
I felt after the Whalers traded Ronnie Francis to Pittsburgh.

I think it was Terry Bradshaw on the pre-game show last week who showed
a shot of Bellichick and said that perhaps his coaching skills had diminished.


The only thing I can't say is that I hope Bernie gets his ring.  As a
Giants fan, I can't say that.....8^)


'Saw

      Bernie doesn't deserve a ring,  he hasn't ever been to the SB or has
    shows that he deserves to go. Riding on the back of the cowpokes he may
    get a ring,  but not deserved...
    
      Tim

    re: .307
    
    sort of like JaKe feels about the Bucs after they let Bonds go?? :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

�|    Didn't Bellichick recently say (after the firing of Bernie and the
�|    Browns losing their next 3 games) that this team is headed in the right
�|    direction?
�
�
�Don't think so.  I don't know for sure.
    
    It was something I heard during one of the football games on Thursday
    or Sunday.
    
�He should not
�have let his personal feelings interfere with his coaching.
    
    Sounds alot like another ex-Giant coach I know.

    OK, who got into HAL's account and entered .306???????????
    
    (8^)
    
    >>next Browns QB of the future?  I think not.  Where is this team going?
    >>As Jake said........the bottom.  And to think that this all started
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Is this scary or what, HAL agreeing with something I said???
    
    (8^)
    
    Actually, although I ragged on him a lot, Bernice was a lot better than
    the contingency that rolled thru PGH in the post Bradshaw years, ya
    know Cliff Stoudt, Mark Malone, David Woodley, Bubby Brister...probably
    better than all them combined
    
    
    Plus, he wore nicer skirts.
    
    JaKe
    

>    
>    Sounds alot like another ex-Giant coach I know.
>


Okay, so what have any of the Patriot's coaches ever done?  

Ray Berry was a great receiver, lousy coach.  The last guy was a nice
guy, lousy coach.    Rod Rust was in there somewhere too, wasn't he?
Giants fans saw how good he was.....


'Saw

    The last guy was a great college coach.  Mebbe no one coulda been a 
    good PATRIOTS coach.  (Especially spending half the time trying not
    to die)
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

Yabut the problems with the Patriots were not always the coaches.  The front
office has generally consisted of people who couldn't put the air in a football.

�Ray Berry was a great receiver, lousy coach.  
    
    That lousy coach took them to a Super Bowl and a few other playoff
    games.
    
�The last guy was a nice
�guy, lousy coach.    
    
    He had a better record than Parcells has now with the Pats, and he did
    it without a franchise QB.

>    
>    That lousy coach took them to a Super Bowl and a few other playoff
>    games.


Yep, and one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) Super Bowl defeats of 
all time.
    
    
>    He had a better record than Parcells has now with the Pats, and he did
>    it without a franchise QB.

Who would you rather have?

�Yep, and one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) Super Bowl defeats of 
�all time.
    
    Sorry, but the current Giants coach hold the record for the biggest SB
    defeat of all time.  It wasn't Ray's coaching that got him run out of
    town.  It was his poor interviews.
    
�Who would you rather have?
    
    I'm willing to give Parcells a little more time.  If MacPherson had the
    personnel control Parcells allegedly has I think Mac would have been
    just fine.  Parcells is going to have to have a good draft and some
    good free agent signings to be able overcome the loss of Fryar and the
    playing of Secules.

 overcome the loss of Fryar???? hahahahaaa Stop it Mac you're killing me...

 mike

Okay Mac, we can handle the Red Sox apologist role, the one liner wet-blanket
role, even the facist moderator role, but being an apologist for the Patriots
is a bit much.  Granted the team is now going in the right direction, but their
history is one of miserable falture, largely due to moronic management, foolish
coaching, and terrible evaluation of talent.  With a team like this it is 
rediculous to defend the past.  All you can do is hope that they eliminate the
past faltures and build for the future.

=Bob=

    No Pats apologist here, =bob=.  Just saying that some of the previous
    Pats' coaches were scapegoats and that Parcells has made some very
    questionable personnel decisions.
    
    I apologize to the Browns fans for the tangent, but I think the
    question of whether or not these ex-Giant coaches are all they are
    cracked up to be just has to be asked.

The only ex-Giant coach (except for Ray The Boob Handley who's fallen off
the face of the Earth) that is screwing anything up is Bill Belichick.

He took a good team, with a winning record, and managed to destroy the
morale, and turn it into a loser.

Parcells is doing okay in New England -- giving that it must be a total
rebuilding year anyway, and not unlike his first year in New York.

Tom What's his name up at BC has had a successful season.

So, for the most part, ex-Giant coaches are doing quite well.

Fryar is old, and is only a role player in Miami - so I agree with Mike
Childs......


'Saw

�Fryar is old, and is only a role player in Miami - so I agree with Mike
�Childs......
    
    Two Giants fans agreeing about a personnel decision made by Bill
    Parcells.  The only thing more earthshaking would be Chris Knorr
    entering a note praising Dean Smith.

    Even given the low expectations, I'd have to rate Parcells' performance
    as average at best this season.  But let's not get carried away with
    these comparisons with a couple of amateurs like Ray Berry and Dick 
    MacPherson.  Even given the low talent level that he's got to work with 
    for now and the fact that the critical mistakes have continued during
    the learning process, at least there's been some consistency of effort 
    from week to week under Parcells.  You didn't have that with Berry's 
    detached laissez-faire attitude or MacPherson's rah-rah collegiate 
    approach, a couple of guys out on the absolute extremes of emotionalism...
    
    Granted, right now these guys are hell to watch and were much more
    interesting in some other seasons under these other coaches, and granted 
    I don't have to sit through the boring games as the more devoted fans do, 
    but even still, despite what he may being saying now about winning
    always being the goal (sure it is-- you always try as hard as you can with 
    the hand you're building for the future), Parcells was not hired to "make 
    things interesting" in the short term.  So he dumped Irving Fryar for 
    nothing, who might have made the difference between a 2-14 season and a 
    4-12 season (and although it shouldn't be the goal, the loss of a premium 
    draft pick).  Big deal; when the Pats start winning in 2-3 years Fryar 
    will be a distant memory.  To tell you the truth, the Pats are blowing 
    all these games but the output from some of the guys who I thought were 
    complete stiffs has been surprising.  Especially on defense...
    
    glenn
    

    Parcells made a vow that he would not keep anyone who didn't want to
   be here. Irving didn't want to be here. So long, Irving. Like Glenn says,
   it's a short term loss. And a small one at that. Parcells isn't a complete
   moron, he got as much for Fryar as he could. If that wasn't much well,
   so be it. Apparently some Pats fans think Fryar was a bigger commodity 
   than the entire NFL did. By the time this team is really ready to contend 
   Fryar will be too old to help them anyways.

    I take it Fryar is up on the wall next to Boggs in the Brydie Hall of
    Fame.

 Normally you'd think that Mac, except that I'm not enamoured with Parcells
 like Saw is. Saw, still goes goo goo everytime he tells the Parcells/Burt
 story....

 ;^)

 I think it just a case here of two guys with 20-20 vision that see Fryar
 for what he real is, a waste of skin. When you think of what he has done
 with the physical gifts he was blessed with it's a shame. Did he ever hold 
 on to a game winner in his life during a final drive? 

 mike

    
    	Letters from around the US...
    
    	Dear BN/I,
    
    	Whether you are or are not a Bernie Kosar fan is not important. 
    What just happened to the team stinks!  They have written off any hopes
    of the playoffs, let alone the division title.  I've been a dedicated
    Browns fan for 35 years.  I've seen them lose badly and win barely. 
    This is the final straw - give away your starting quarterback with no
    backup in sight!
    	The problem is (Belichick) knows defense but not offense.  Someone
    should call Lindy Infante!  I don't call going from a 6-10 record to
    7-9 a turnaround.  Try going 2-14 to Super Bowl champions.
    	I'm very happy for Bernie.  He will finally get a Super Bowl ring. 
    Now he can come back to Cleveland and show the Browns what the ring
    looks like.
    
    	Placerville, Calif.

    
    	Dear BN/I,
    
    	I've been a Browns fan since I was seven, almost 31 years.  I've
    seen good and bad times, but I've never seen anything like the last
    bunch of years.  The team was one of the best in the league with
    offensive coordinator Lindy Infante.  Then it started to go bad.  Marty
    Schottenheimer ruined the team with terrible drafting and the spiteful
    trade of Earnest Byner.
    	Bill Belichick comes in and ruins the receiving corps by losing
    Webster Slaughter, Reggie Langhorne and Brian Brennan.  Two of them are
    stars for other teams.  The team is only now bouncing back from that
    escapade when all of a sudden Bernie Kosar is released at a time when
    the team has no one to replace him. 
    	Is it me or does it seem like the Browns brain trust keeps cutting
    off their noses.  I suppose next they'll be getting rid of Eric
    Metcalf, Mike Johnson and Michael Dean Perry.  I can't help but ask,
    "What the hell is going on?"
    
    	
    		Seekonk, Mass
    
    
    
    		WOOF!
    

Thing was, I HATED Parcells when he first came to New York.  That first
season we were ready to ship him out the door.

Then he changed my mind.

Fryar was spent.  What Parcells got for him shows what the rest of the
league thought of him too.


The Browns are toast this season, and probably next also....


'Saw


PS  MikeyC, you gots to admit that Burt story is a GREAT story....

    
    	Dear BN/I,
    
    	I looked up the work "totalitarian" in the dictionary.  There I
    found a picture of Bill Belichick.
    
    
    		Herndon, Va.
    
    
    
    		WOOF! WOOF!

    
    	Dear BN/I,
    
    	It will be very amusing to see all of Bill Belichick's critics
    elbow each other out of the way to get on line to kiss his butt when
    the Browns make the playoffs and eventually win the Super Bowl.
    	When was the last time we were in first place at midseason?  What
    can you morons possibly be thinking about?
    
    
    		Manchester, N.H.
    
    
    	He said morons...

    Who is BN/I?

�Fryar was spent.  
    
    Yeah, he's just taking up bench space in Miami these days, isn't he.
    
�What Parcells got for him shows what the rest of the
�league thought of him too.
    
    What it shows is that the rest of the league wasn't stupid enough to
    give up much for a guy the coach would have probably cut anyway.

>    Who is BN/I?


My guess is a Browns fan publication, somewhat akin to TGN (The Giants
Newsweekly).

'Saw

|�Fryar was spent.  
|    
|    Yeah, he's just taking up bench space in Miami these days, isn't he.

He's not burning up the league if that's what you mean.  The games I've
seen Miami play he hasn't caught too many -- just the one big one
against that Pats.

That was probably a sympathy pass....8^)

    
|�What Parcells got for him shows what the rest of the
|�league thought of him too.
|    
|    What it shows is that the rest of the league wasn't stupid enough to
|    give up much for a guy the coach would have probably cut anyway.

Man, if the Pats had some GOOD players that Parcells got rid of, I could
see wanting to whine about it.   Parcells is the best thing that could
have happened to that franchise and all you do is whine about it.

Hey, maybe you can get Ray Berry back.  The Giants fans would take
Parcells back in a heartbeat.


'Saw

  I've watched a few Miami games and Irving *has* been effective for them.
 He's had a few catches like the one against us and seems more sure-handed 
 down there than he ever did for us. He's Miami's big play guy. Good for 
 them. It still boils down to the guy wanting out of NE and him being ~30 
 years old. We got just about all we were going to get for him.

	Yeah he's gotten more sure handed with the 'phins.  I wonder if
	he's still sure handed with the knifes his wife used to throw at
	him.


	billl

    Man you guys have short memories.

I saw Fryar against the JETS, he caught like 7 balls for 113 and TD, I think 
but with 5 minutes left in game they were trailing he dropped 2 down and outs
a TD in the endzone that hit him????? you guessed it right in the hands...

he's never ever been or going to be consistent just a flash of brillance
here and there...for all his excess baggage he ain't worth it....

 mike

    
    BN/I is ..... The Browns News/Illustrated
    
    	Last but not least...
    
    	Dear BN/I,
    
    	However pathetic the performance against the Broncos was, the
    decision to release Bernie Kosar at this point of the season is hard to
    defend as rational.  It makes no sense from a football perspective, as
    the Browns currently have no other proven quarterback.  It makes no
    sense from a financial perspective, as the Browns are obligated to pay
    Kosar almost $6 million this year whether he plays here or not. 
    Modell's highest-paid player is now a backup for the Cowboys.
    	Most importantly, whether or not Bernie could still have
    contributed to the team, it makes no sense from an ethical perspective
    to unceremoniously dump one of the greatest players ever to grace the
    ranks of this franchise.  It is especially puzzling when one considers
    the respect and courtesies the Browns have extended to other
    distinguished veterans, most recently Ozzie Newsome and Kevin Mack. 
    The immediate effect of this action will be to shatter morale.  In the
    long run the waiving of Kosar will damage fan support more than any
    possible outcome this year, even the loss of every remaining game in
    the season.
    	I have been a Browns fan all my life and have continued to follow
    the team closely in the years since I left Cleveland.  I could not
    imagine a less fitting end to the career of a player who'd exhibited a
    team loyalty unmatched in modern sport history.  Anyone deserves better
    treatment than that.  Bernie deserved much better.  I'll probably watch
    the game next week, but I don't think it will be with the same
    involvement.  I would wager that a significant number of Browns fan
    feel the same way.
    
    	
    			St. Louis, Mo.
    
    	I did and I did.
    
    Grrrrrrrrr!
    

    	Dear BN/I,
    
    	I want to personally thank Bellichik for getting rid of that
    girly-mon, no-talent of a quarterback Bernie Kosar.  With that Albatross
    removed I look forward to the Browns making and going deep into the NFL
    playoffs.  Good job Bill!
    
    				Vinnie Testeverde

    ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooOOOOLWARD Slasher.
    
    
    JaKe
    

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 The defense wins this game with 9 QB sacks.  Neither QB for Cleveland
    was effective.  There was one play that Vinnie called an audiable.
    The pass was intercepted.  I wonder if he will be released now???
    After looking at the standings, Cleveland really doesn't look too
    bad.  It is still possible for the Browns to win the division.
    The Browns are only one game back of Houston if they win next week.
    If the Browns win the last game of the season against the Squeelers
    and the Squeelers beat the Oilers, it will be a 3 way tie for the 
    division.  Who would win?
    
    
    		Browns 17	Saints 13
    
    
    	WOOF!

    
    >>The Browns are only one game back of Houston if they win next week.
                                                   ^^
    >>If the Browns win the last game of the season against the Squeelers
      ^^
    
    Ya, and IF a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass every time he
    jumps.
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

Somebody tell HAL that real Browns fans aren't anymore.

dr.a

	                            ____/\
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                          /\^^^^^^
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
                    
    	Once again the Browns find a way to lose!  Vinny throws an INT
    	at their own 40 and gives the Oilers a shot at the big winning
    	field goal.  I can't seen how the Browns will make the playoffs
    	now.  It is truely over now.  Only bragging rights remain.  
    	Browns still have a chance to win the last three but will a 9-7
    	record be enough...I doubt it.  
    
    	Stover misses two field goals in this game....46 and 56.
    
    	On a fourth down attemp in Oiler teritory, the Browns go for it.
    	Vinny tosses the ball back to Hoard...Hoard looks up and sees a
    	wide open Kitchen....the pass....about 8 yards over his head...a
    	sure TD....down the tubes.
    
    	Kevin Mack is back.  Didn't look too bad either!  4 rushes for 17
    	yards.  
    
    	Forth down and two with 45 seconds left, the Oilers to punt.....
    	Mike Johnson gets called for offsides.......game over!
    
    
    		Woof!

    
    'course, the season really ended when the Browns decided to release
    Kosar.
    
    Will 6-10 be enough to get Bellichek fired after a 5-2 start?  One
    can only hope...
    
    Joe

    The Dawgs have 2 gimme games (or should) VS New England and the
    Rams so it could come down to the final game VS Pittsburg (and who
    would have the better head to head and division record etc).  I
    have to look at the schedule realiticaly and I dont see the jets
    making the playoffs (anymore), they have Dallas, Buffalo and Houston.
    So if Miami, Houston and KC win the Division you have Buffalo as a WC
    and then 2 of the following (Jets, Den, Rai and Cleve, sd has an out
    side shot as well).  Rai and Den play in the last week and each could
    lose 1 other so 9-7 could make the playoffs (anything less and your
    out thats for damn sure).  So Tie Breakers could come into play.
    The Jets have the worst shot in a tie becuase they lost to Den and
    the Rai, but I could get intresting.
    
    (I think 10-5 will take all the WC spots this year, too bad your not
    in the mighty NFC).
    
    								Mab

  >> The Dawgs have 2 gimme games (or should) VS New England and the
    
     New England is a "gimme" game? I'd think that 80% of the teams in the
     league would disagree with you and one of those teams is Cleveland.
     It's been said ad nauseum but the Pats have played everyone tough
     and now with a win finally under their belt they should play with
     confidence next week. It would be nice if the offense could gener-
     ate more than one touchdown on a *good* day but the defense will
     keep them in with anybody - a fact of which we've already seen 
     ample evidence. Cleveland will have to do alot more than just show 
     up.

    
    
         Well the Raiders are at 8-5 they should beat TB. Probably lose at
    GB (gonna be cold)!!!. Than the Denver game in LA. That game will
    decide if the Raiders go. CLeveland will probably get knocked off by
    the Steelers. If Pitt loses tonight they are gonna need alot of help
    from other sources.The Jets are done as are the Chargers.
    
       What helps the Raiders is they own tie breakers over Buffalo, NyJets
    and Denver. It's gonna be interesting.
    
    
    Chappy

    
    	The Pats have no chance in Cleveland!
    
    	Its in the book already!
    
    		Really, look back at the games the Browns have lost this
    	year....even without Bernie, they gave games away.  At an
        unbelievable rate.  Even yesterday.  
    
    	Look for a blowout in Cleveland.  The Crush and Rush will take care
    	of the Patsies!
    
    
    		WOOF!

    Sheesh, The 'Spots lose and HAL is in here at 8:25 the nexted morning,
    I'm impressed HAL, you finally ready to accept and root for the team a
    lot of CLevescumers' are turning to until Belichick goes, namely the
    STEELERS????
    
    JaKe
    

�    		Really, look back at the games the Browns have lost this
�    	year....even without Bernie, they gave games away.  At an
�        unbelievable rate.  Even yesterday.  
    
    And this makes you confident of a Browns win?

With the Rams running game they aren't a pushover either. The passing game
sucks but Bettis gained over 200 yards yesterday and ground Chuck is in full
gear...

I'd  give Cleveland the edge over NE because the game is in Clevelend. If they
were playing in NE then it would be a pick um...

NE won't be able to score vs. Clevelands defense...throw in some crappy weather
and you've got the amking of a 3-0  game...

Metz

On the other hand, the Cleveland Symphony Orchestra, long touted as one
of the best, and lately herald the top orchestra in the US, is celebrating
their 75th Anniversary this year.

There was a piece on CBS Sunday Morning about them, and about how times
had changed since the dictatorial George Szell was on the podium.
I've always been willing to pick up anything by the Cleveland Symphony.
They're usually damn good.


So, Hal, take heart.  The football team might be stinking up the grounds,
but the CSO is champeenship quality.....


'Saw

    The CSO renditions of the classics seem a little dry to me.
    
    Isn't this the team that was to go 15-1?

>
>    The CSO renditions of the classics seem a little dry to me.
>    

My first choice has always been Berlin with Von Karajan......

    
    >>Isn't this the team that was to go 15-1?
    
    That was Groaner flapping about that record, and we ALL KNOW that's
    he's too scared to show his face in here anymore, what with the 'SPots
    going from contenders to pretenders to also rans.
    
    He'll be in here nexted year spouting off until the lose 2 games, then
    he'll dissappear faster that a Twinkie in front of William Perry.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    >My first choice has always been Berlin with Von Karajan......
    
    especially for Beethoven.  I prefer the Prague Chamber Orchestra for
    Mozart.

      Classical in the spots file.  I'm getting sleepy....Next you will be
    talking basball(-)
    
      Tim

    
    As previously mentioned, the DAWG defense is too good for the Pats.
    What do you think Bleedso will do when the Crush and Rush are in his
    face the whole game?  Down baby down!  6 sacks not unlikely.  The
    Browns defense is there, its the offense that has the problems.  And
    even though they have problems, they can still score above 10 points
    a game.  Eric Metcalf will have a carrier day against those patsies.
    
    
    	WOOF!
    

Hal,
Does 'MMS still rule?

Are local folks supporting the Browns anymore?
As a transplanted fan, I hope they go 1-8 under Belicheck and
force Modell to fire him before he sells the team.

Go Patriots!
dr.a

�force Modell to fire him before he sells the team.
    
    Modell has been denying that he has any intention of selling the
    Browns.

    
    	Even if Modell were to sell the team.....at least Cleveland
    wouldn't have to worry about the team moving from Ohio!  Unlike
    what looks to be happening here in N.E..
    
    	

    
    	Oh yea, I heard last night that ole Art may be looking to Joe Gibbs
    	as the new coach.....
    

Actually, in the broadcast booth (NBC?), Gibbs seems a lot
more personable than he ever did on the Redskins' sideline.
He even smiles and jokes - something I never saw before.
He coaches a boring style of football very successfully, though.

dr.a

    	I'll take the Pats and 5 for a P-Name bet Hal.  Or do you think
    this team that will sack Bledsoe 6 times isn't capable of covering a 5
    point spread?
    
    				/Don

    
    	Ha!  Lookit Roachy tryin' to get points for a mainly p-name
    	bet.  C'mon Slashah, grow some!  
    
    Claybone

    	Hey Claybone, Las Vegas lives for suckers like you.
    
    				/Don

    The Browns just off my memory seem to have played very well against the
    Pat's including upset(s) of some of the mid 80s teams.  But if this
    game is at NE then an even bet should be no problem Don but if at
    Cleveland you do need some points, maybe 3.
    
    I always have respected the browns because their fans are so dedicated
    and I met one of the linebackers in '68 at Quantico - played '68-77,
    someone help me on what his name was - may have been #62
    
    It'll come to me - had a big interception on one of the monday nite
    games about 72-73.

    
    	re...breen,  must have had the last name Johnson, I bet.  Who
    knows, wasn't Clay around back then???
    
    	re...robichaud, really, do you have to have points?  Don't you
    think your team will win outright?  
    
    
    	WOOF!

    Yeah, he whines and kicks and screams and holds his breath if he
    doesn't get points...
    

    
    	Nice try Roachy.  P-name bets ain't made in Vegas!  Be a
    	main!  We're not talkin' 'bout your grocery money here.  :*)
    
    Claybone

      Points are for people that can sucker someone in because they don't
    have the confidence in his own team.
    
      Tim

  All you Donks fans are jumping on my main man Slasher for wanting points
 because you've found them to be completely useless when making Super Bowl
 bets. Hahahaha!

    
    	What's this?  Now Slashah goes runnin' to his big brother
    	Tommy for some help?  :*)  Nice slam though.....you know how
    	it is with the truth.
    
    	Doesn't change a thing.  /Don has no faith in HIS team and
    	wants points.  Sissy.  :*)
    
    Claybone

	RE: A FEW BACK   

    At least the Donk fans got to make a few SB bets!!


  Cadzilla2

 

  >> At least the Donk fans got to make a few SB bets!!

     Let's just hope that the Donks fans in here didn't bet anything
     more than coffee money.
 
    

�    	Doesn't change a thing.  /Don has no faith in HIS team and
�    	wants points.  Sissy.  :*)
    
    I think it's Hal that has no faith in his team if he's not willing to
    give up the points.  Afterall, we know the game is being played in the
    Pound, that the Browns have more coaches than the Pats, and the Browns
    will sack Bledsoe 6 times (even though the Pats OL has only allowed 22
    sacks in 13 games).

    Like I said, see Lionsmanis.  He won't do it.  I buckled under because
    although I lost the battle, the Lions won the war and deep down /Don
    knows I was right and he was wrong...
    

    Points are there for a reason, anyone who bets on an underdog without
    taking the points is a fool.  I love last weeks line, Cinncy +5, NE
    score's and you figure no way will there be a tie :-)
    
    Dont bet without the points, he knows what he's doing, I'll take most
    favorites in a bet without the points too, boy now thats taken a chance
    talk about being a girly mon, give him the pts, be a real man....
    
    								mab

    >> and the Browns will sack Bledsoe 6 times (even though the Pats 
    >> OL has only allowed 22 sacks in 13 games).
    
       And the Pats haven't allowed any sacks in at least the last two games.

    
     Right on, M_Air.

    
    	All these Patsie fans coming to /Don's defense.  Tsk, tsk.
    	I guess they are all testosterone deficient too....
    
    	Be a main Roachy!  No points!  
    
    Claybone

	                            ____/\
                                   /-    |
                          /-------/      |
	                  \/\/\/\/|      \
                 Pats +5>>>>>>>   /            
                          /\^^^^^^    Browns win by 17>>>>>>>>>
			  \_______________
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    			I'll take that bet!
    
    
    
    
    			WOOF!

    1 real man out of the whole dog pound, congrats !!!!
    
    I guess these are the same folks that would have taken cinncy
    straight up VS San Fran :-), I would have taken anyone's action
    on that game :-).
    
    The spread is there to make it even, I cant count how many times the
    spread turns out in a tie, the people know what there doing, they
    win win in a tie.  I just dont think being a Sucker has anything to
    do with testostarone...  Dont get sucker'd into a sucker's bet, take
    the pts, if any other Dawgs fan's have any faith they'll give the
    pts...
    
    								mab

    	AttaBoy Hal.  Glad to see you back your team, unlike others in
    here...  
    
    				/Don

    
    Hal,  you planning to attend tomorrow night at the OPP?
    

    Cain't wait to see HAL with the p_name of Slasher's choice.
    
    JaKe
    

    
     This baby was pretty much over last week when M_Air pronounced it
    a gimme game for Cleveland. His KOD is even more lethal than mine.

    TTom, what's the over/under on the HalWatch?

      He's probably in Californ I A......or so the excuse for not replying
    will be..
    
      Tim

    
    
        Well he was in the FFL conference bragging about his Fantasy team 
    "The Dawgs" so he hasn't got any excuse.
    
    
    
    Chap

Did you see the look on Vinny's face when he threw that final interception?

Priceless.....


'Saw


PS  Where's all those Pats fans who were complaining about Parcells.
    Heck, with a little bit o' luck, he'll do better his first year at
    NE than in his first year at NY......

    I thought I read in here were the Browns were supposed to go 15 and 1......
    
    
    Wot happened?

>    
>    Wot happened?
>

I think all that great equipment that they had that would get them 15-1 
must've broken or something....

Or maybe they didn't have enough coaches.....

    
    	Congrats on your unmainly p-name wager win Roachy!  Kinda like
    	whoopin' your po frail ole granny in arm wrasslin!
    
    Claybone

    
    Re .401
    
  > Or maybe they didn't have enough coaches.....
    
    One too many, actually - name of Bellichek...
    
    Joe

    	I'll get you in the playoffs Claybone (if the Donkeys make it) and
    I won't be skeert to give points!
    
    				/Don

      Only way the donks won't make the playoffs is if they lose to the
    'bucs thised weekend.  And if that happens,  they don't deserve to go, 
    even if they beat the faiders the week after.
    
      Tim

    
    	Oh?  The Patsies are gonna play the Donks in the 'offs?
    	What year?
    
    Claybone

 >> Where's all those Pats fans who were complaining about Parcells.
 >> Heck, with a little bit o' luck, he'll do better his first year at
 >> NE than in his first year at NY......
    
    "All those Patriot fans"? How many are "All those"? One? Two? Good
    game yesterday. Nice to see them make the one or two plays that en-
    abled them to win that they haven't been making all season. What I
    don't understand is all of the griping about Bellichick. Vinnie looks
    like a *HUGE* improvement over Bernie. Better arm, better mobility,
    almost as experienced. Bernie had ample opportunity to get that team
    to the promised land when he had all of his skills and he couldn't 
    do it. To think that he could with his skills fading fast is just a
    pipe dream. 

>    "All those Patriot fans"? How many are "All those"? One? Two? Good
>    game yesterday. Nice to see them make the one or two plays that en-


All those, modified by the words "who were complaining".  Even if it
was only one, it could still be an "all those"....


I don't know what I enjoyed more -- seeing New England win, or Cleveland
lose.

But hey, folks, that logo has GOT to go......

    
  >  What I don't understand is all of the griping about Bellichick.
  >  Vinnie looks like a *HUGE* improvement over Bernie. Better arm,
  >  better mobility, almost as experienced. Bernie had ample opportunity
  >  to get that team to the promised land when he had all of his skills
  >  and he couldn't do it. To think that he could with his skills fading
  >  fast is just a pipe dream.
    
    The griping about Bellichek centers around the fact that in spite of
    having little offensive experience he, in mid season, waived the
    Browns best available quarterback (Kosar) because Kosar's skills
    didn't fit Bellichek's offense.  OK, a lot of it stems from Kosar's
    hero status in Cleveland as well, to be honest, but that doesn't
    diminish the meaning of the former.
    
    To say that Testaverde is a significantly better quarterback than
    Kosar is quite a stretch.  Testaverde does have a better arm, and
    better mobility, true.  "Experience" doesn't score points, so we'll
    ignore that.  Kosar is more accurate and reads defenses better.
    I'd take Kosar, but I could see someone preferring Testaverde.
    Be interesting to see the offensive pts/quarter divided between
    the two - I suspect they are about even, which would suggest that
    Kosar (who makes fewer mistakes) would be the better choice.
    
    All of which suggests, perhaps, benching Kosar to play Testaverde. 
    This happened, and while benching Kosar didn't make most Browns fans
    happy, there were few calls for Bellichek's head on a platter.
    When Testaverde went down, and Kosar was released, so that _Todd
    Philcox_ could start, that's when the problem started.  The team
    has since dropped from 5-3 to 6-8.  If you're a fan of the team,
    who are you going to blame?
    
    And while the Browns never got to the Super Bowl w/ Kosar, it's
    hardly his fault.  I'm not convinced he could _lead_ the Browns to
    the Super Bowl now, but I think he would have been a whole lot more
    likely to _guide_ them there than Testaverde.
    
    Joe                                           

    
    	It's not Bernie's fault they never went to the Super Bowl.
    	It's John Elway's and Ernest Byner's!  :*)  Or was that
    	Kevin Mack.  I fergit.....
    
    Claybone

    Parcells finally benched his kicker and got a new one.  If he had done
    that earlier in the season we might have been lookin' at a few more Ws.

>
>    Parcells finally benched his kicker and got a new one.  If he had done
>    that earlier in the season we might have been lookin' at a few more Ws.
>

He had to wait till a good one was available....8^)

      Kosar's experience vs Testies?  Hasn't Binny been in the NFL for 6-7
    years?  How much experience does he need?  Kosar has only 1-2 years
    more than Binny....
    
    
     Tim

    
    	Well guys, I was in here first thing this morning and wrote a
    lenthy note only to have it go into the land of nowhere...network path
    lost....depressing.  However, I'm not going to say a whole lot here.
    
    	I think the officiating stank yesterday.  Two catches that were
    called good but were both out of bounds.  Then the fumble in the last
    two minutes that wasn't called.  Long shot for the Browns but yet a
    shot.
    
    	Vinny stank!  Lose a game because of INT's...didn't I say something
    about this before?  I can't stand it!  
    
    	The Browns gave the Pats this game.  A fumble at the 10 and an INT
    in the endzone.  What was Vinny looking at???  Stupid!  Yea, Bills
    right.  NOT!
    
    	When will Bill be dumped???
    
    	Merry X-mas Pats!
    
    
    	GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

    	Tell ya what Hal, it being Christmas and all and you being a main
    and all by betting the line and not trying to sandbag me, you can lose
    the P-Name after Wednesday.
    
    				/Don

    
    	Gee thanks Don.....since I'm not going to be here after today....
    that sounds like a good deal.  I won't be back till next year.
    
    I wanted to note one other thing about the game Sunday...only 42,000
    fans showed up for the game.  Does that tell you something?
    
    		Woof!

    
    >>I wanted to note one other thing about the game Sunday...only 42,000
    >>fans showed up for the game.  Does that tell you something?
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    That the cumulative IQ of the stadium was only 38 Sunday.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    	The Cleveland Browns actually hired an offensive coordinator.
    	The running back coach has been promoted.
    
    	Hmmmm, I wonder why?
    
    	WOOF!

      Bernie to come back? (-)

    
    	Word out of Cleveland is that the Browns are trying to work a deal
    	that will give them the #1 rated QB in the nation in this years
    	comming draft.  Who will it be?
    
    
    	WOOF!

    
    Only if Bill went back to the Giants....

Belichick in Cleveland, Pardee in Washington, Handley in NY.....

All prime examples of the Peter Principle in action.

Pardee in Washington?? Pettibohn in Washington, Pardee in Houston.

The Crazy Met

Right.

I get them mixed up all the time....8^)

I thought that Pardee did coach the Skins at one time.

Jerry

>                           -< Pardee at Washington? >-
>
>I thought that Pardee did coach the Skins at one time.

I thought he might have played for them, but now I'm thinking it was
the Rams.

Pettibone played for them (db?) didn't he?


I KNEW I shoulda stayed away from the brown acid.....


'Saw

'bout the only thing good about sunday's game...

    Ah believes Pardee did coach the Skins at one point. He definitely
    played for the Rams. And Eliot from Harvard just tol' me that the
    brown acid told him that Pettibone played mostly for the Bears, no??
    
    MikeL
    

    
    	I thought it was great that Bernie got to get a snap off in the 
    	game.  His name will go down in history.....
    
    		RUSHING - KOSAR 1 Attemp for (-1) yard
    
    	Someone said he probably got some extra cash for the snap.
    
    	I was really surprised that Bernie didn't get a shot at QB in the
    	second half seeing how bad Troy was.  Probably have to thank 
    	Washington for that.
    
    
    	WOOF!
    

>    	I was really surprised that Bernie didn't get a shot at QB in the
>    	second half seeing how bad Troy was.  Probably have to thank 
>    	Washington for that.
    
You truly are joking, right, Hal?    

>>            <<< Note 61.430 by SUBPAC::WHITEHAIR "BILL MUST GO!" >>>
>>                       -< Leave Cleve and get the ring. >-

>>    	I was really surprised that Bernie didn't get a shot at QB in the
>>    	second half seeing how bad Troy was.  Probably have to thank 
>>    	Washington for that.
    
I let the first remark that Hal made about "how bad Aikman looked" go.
But the guy just keeps coming back for more.

So, in Hal's honor, I would like to introduce a new term.  I'll TM
it later.  From now on, when Hal displays such leaps of illogic as
demonstrated here, I will refer to it as a 



	Halapropism

Thank you,

Jerry

Rollin' Jerry!

yeah, you've got me rolling.....

TM that baby.....

    
    
    	Yabbut don't forget,
    
    
    
    hth
    
    
    
    	Hal_tried_Hard
    
    
    ;^)
    
    

    Ankle-biting Bernie wishes he was half the QB Aikman is.
    
    Hize (not a cowgirl fan)

    
    	You still have to give Bernie some credit though.  He did win a
    	couple of games durring the season for Dallas and also played
    	a big part in the win against the 49ers.
    
    	The big question is where will he go this next year?????
    
    	Let me throw a couple of teams up...
    
    		Cleveland
    		Houston
    		Jets
    		Miami (If Marino don't come back)
    		KC  (no way with Marty there)
                New Orleans
    		Rams
    		Bears
    		
    	are there any others?  Maybe we should have a contest.
    
    
    
    	WOOF!
    

re: Jets,Oilers - not if he wants to start.

The Crazy Met

�    	You still have to give Bernie some credit though.  He did win a
�    	couple of games durring the season for Dallas and also played
�    	a big part in the win against the 49ers.
    
    With Emmitt Smith in the backfield, even you would have looked good at
    QB, Hal.

    not to mention the 'Boys offensive line.

    Bernie - what I heard was Bears, Chargers, Bucs.
    
    I think Saints should give it a shot. Could be a quality QB away from
    trying to go to the SB.
    
    Murph
    

    Hal, don't be surprised if Bernie ends up in Washington with Norv
    Turner.  They apparently have talked about that possibility.
    
    - Rope

> I think Saints should give it a shot. Could be a quality QB away from
> trying to go to the SB.

then why would they want Bernie? Here is a guy who always came up short
in a championship game. I mean come on, Elway the chokester was the QB
that beat 'em.

The Crazy Met

>>  <<< Note 61.444 by METSNY::francus "Reeves, Slasher & girly-mon football" >>>

>>then why would they want Bernie? Here is a guy who always came up short
>>in a championship game. I mean come on, Elway the chokester was the QB
>>that beat 'em.

Aren't you being a bit unfair to Bernie on this?  As I recall, Denver
won one game with "the drive".  If anyone choked, it was the Browns'
defense.  The other game was lost on a fumble inside the 5 yard line.
That doesn't sound like a choke job on Bernie's part.  He had them
in position to win late in the game.

Jerry

    
    	Thanks Jerry!
    
    
    	GRRRRRRRRR

Hey Hal,
Are the Browns' faithful still hollerin' for Belichek's head
or has the ardour cooled?
Is Modell still committed to that idjit?
And did they really hire an offensive coordinator?

dr.a

    Why would Bernie want the 'aints?  Hail as long as Mora is there,
    this team will continue to underachieve, no matter who the QB
    is.
    
    MikeL
    

    
    	Yes, the Browns promoted the runningbacks coach to that of
    offensive coordinator.  Ozzie is still the receivers coach and talk is
    that Kevin Mack may be hired in the offseason to be the runningback
    coach.
    	Talk in Cleveland has calmed down a little.  Bill says the team has
    gotten better no mater what happened the last 3/4ths of last season.
    Art is committed to Bill all the way.  Both say the Browns will make
    the playoffs next year.
    	Browns Newspaper has all the stats with and without Bernie.
    
    	WOOF!
    

    
    >>	Talk in Cleveland has calmed down a little.  Bill says the team has
    >>gotten better no mater what happened the last 3/4ths of last season.
    
    I cain see if it was only 1/4 of the season that they faltered, but
    didn't they go something like 2-8 or 3-7 over the lasted 10 games???? 
    that's bad, in anybody's(except Pats fans) book.
    
    >>Art is committed to Bill all the way.  Both say the Browns will make
    >>the playoffs next year.
    
    Now there's reason to go bet the mortgage on the 'Spots, eh???? 
    "Specially with Bill and Art's track records so far.  What happens
    nexted year, is Bill going to cut the whole defensive line if they
    don't put out fer a game or three????
    
    BTW, the STEELERS signed some coach from the 'SPots to coach their
    defensive line nexted year, any scoop on this guy(cain't even remember
    his name.)
    
    JaKe
    

    Bumped into an old college friend two weeks ago.  She is the
    daughter of Gary Tranquil - who had been the Browns quarterback
    coach.
    
    He just recently quit to take a job at VA Tech.  The story 
    I got was that several coaches were now quietly leaving cuz they
    don't exactly get along with Bellicek (sp?). 
    
    Just what I heard,
    Pat

    Hmmmmm, I wonder why???
    
    
    		Woof!
    

    
    	Since I did so well on predicting the Basketball winners...
    
    
    		I predict that the CLEVELAND BROWNS will make it to 
    			the playoffs this year.
    
    
    	WOOF!

    
    	Browns sign Tom Tupa as quarterback.  Anyone got any stats on this
    	guy?  Where did he come from?
    
    	
    
    	Woof!

    
    	I'm surprised at you Hal.  He's an Ohio State grad...
    
    Claybone

    He was drafted by the Cardinals and only played here a couple seasons.

    
    He's a lousy backup, at least he provewd that when Timmmy Rosenbach
    went down.  Of course, with all the coaches the Browns have, he'll
    surely improve.
    
    boC

    He's a QB AND a punter...
    

    > He's a QB AND a punter...
    
    i.e., Danny White with a lot less talent.

    
    FWIW, he was signed to be a punter, not a qb (except in emergencies).
    
    Joe

    
    	Interesting...signed to be a punter...???  Looks like they are 
    trying to keep the Ohio faithfull rooting for the team.  Tupa...
    Ohio State....Yea, I remember....I think.  I seem to remember him
    playing in a bowl game.....a bad one.  I really don't thimk passing
    will be the name of the game in Cleveland this year.  I look for the 
    Browns to run...run...run....and evidently punt.
    
    	Grrrrrrrr
    

	Sure he wasn't on the team last year?  The paper I read said the
	Browns 're-signed' him.


	billl

    
    Re .462
    
    He was the emergency backup QB for the last few games last year.
    
    Joe

    Heard he's from a very rich family.  They make some sort of food
    storage containers.  Tupaware, I think it's called.
    
    Lee

    
    	Bernie Kosar is now a Miami backup...

     Yea, he wanna be there when JJ takes over the head coaching job and
    Dan retires.  :-)

    just read in the paper that Ernest "fumble the ball" Byner has just
    signed with my Browns.  Why?????!!!!!!

      Because the Browns don't have a good RB?  Maybe he will FUMBLE
    against Denver again this year.  The dawgs come to pile it hi this
    year.
    
      Tim

    
    	Yes, the Browns have signed Byner, they are also looking to sign
    the Washington QB as backup.  The Browns are expected to make the
    playoffs this year with the recent signings.  Carl Banks will be a 
    Brown soon.  Mike Johnson has signed with detroit.  Pepper Johnson and
    Jerry Ball are still unsigned free agents.  Langman and Alexander will
    surely improve the team this year.
    
    
    	WOOF

>    	Yes, the Browns have signed Byner, 

A stiff.


>they are also looking to sign the Washington QB as backup.  


Another stiff.



>The Browns are expected to make the
>    playoffs this year with the recent signings.  

Surely you jest.



>Carl Banks will be a  Brown soon.  

A doubly big stiff.  Washed up.


>    surely improve the team this year.
    
Ought to take this one to open mike night.....


'Saw

    
>>The Browns are expected to make the
>>    playoffs this year with the recent signings.  
    
    And last year, and the year before that, and the year before that, with
    all the assistants they had, and....you get the picture.
    
    HAL, talk to us about it in January.
    
    JaKe
    

Just heard: Rypien has signed with the Browns to backup Vinnie. That's
along way from Super Bowl MVP, $3M salary, etc.

Maybe the Browns are planning on Vinnie not getting it done and they
wanted another chance at losing...

TTom

|Just heard: Rypien has signed with the Browns to backup Vinnie. That's
|along way from Super Bowl MVP, $3M salary, etc.
|
|Maybe the Browns are planning on Vinnie not getting it done and they
|wanted another chance at losing...



If these two guys were testicles, you'd never make a baby with them.....

    Hal:
    
     I'm a lowly "Browns" fan in Bronco land.  It has been hard to hold my
    head up and chear for them at times.  But,  I always hang there.  I
    feel the Browns had a alot of EGO talent, and BB had to act fast to get
    rid of his biggest ego; that being Bernie.  Bernie was holding the team
    down with his constant whining.  I can't make a prediction for this
    year except that I feel a 9-7 record will win the Central Div.
    
    Hang in there Hal.
    Maybe "just" Maybe
    We will win a few games and make the playoffs.
    I pray that the butheads that note in to knock the Browns "Eat" alot of
    crow this year.
    
    DO IT DAWGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     

    re-1
    
      You and Hal won't get along.  You dogged Bernie his hero (-).
    
    
      Tim

Ha!

That was a classic.

Yeah, Hal and Bernie are buddies....  (Or was that RCASO and Tony Eason?)


'Saw

    
    Re .474
    
>    I feel the Browns had a alot of EGO talent, and BB had to act fast to get
>    rid of his biggest ego; that being Bernie.  Bernie was holding the team
>    down with his constant whining.
    
    Huh?  Bernie isn't a great quarterback; at this point in his career
    he could probably still start, but will make an excellent backup IMHO.
    But Bernie as the biggest ego on the Browns?  Certainly not when
    compared to Belichek, or Perry, or Ball, or...
    
    Joe

    
    
    
    	Did I hear a report that Mark Rypian signed with the Browns???
    
    JimH
    

    
    	What other kind of Browns fan is there other than "lowly"?
    
    Claybone

>    	What other kind of Browns fan is there other than "lowly"?
    
Lead me not into temptation......

    RE: 61.479
    
    Well; I can understand your statement.  The Browns have really sucked
    recently.  But when I say "lowly" it is only implying that the team I
    chose to support some 30 years ago cant seem to make it over the hump,
    my frustration is apparent.  Living in Colorado hasnt made being a 
    Browns fan any easier for obvious reason ie: F__k the Broncos!!!
    All "true" Browns fans have the mindset that if your not a Browns fan
    you just dont know football!!
    

    
    >>All "true" Browns fans have the mindset that if your not a Browns fan
    >>you just dont know football!!
    
    And all REAL football fans KNOW that if you're a Brown(spot)s(tm) fan,
    you just DON'T know football.
    
    JaKe
    

>>                <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
>>                                  -< SPORTS >-
>>================================================================================
>>Note 61.481                 CLEVELAND BROWNS 'DAWGS'                  481 of 482
                                               ^^^^^^
    
    Hey Hal, 
    
    Why don't they change this to something more fitting, like maybe
    
    "Rabid Chihuahuas"...ya know, cause they make a lot of noise, can't
    hurt a flea, and piss all over the place when you scare them.  yep,
    sounds like the Brown(spot)s(tm) and their inhabitants of the pig pound
    to me!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    
    re .481.
    
    	Hey, I can understand why you feel that way about the Broncos.
    	And, I love it.
    
    Claybone

    Would somebody tell me what is wrong with the Indians, thay have lost 9
    of 10 and 4 in a row.  I would like intelligent responses, not smart
    as* ones.
    

I, for one, find .485 offensive on the grounds that the noter is trying
to stifle a joke.

TTom

>    Would somebody tell me what is wrong with the Indians, thay have lost 9
>    of 10 and 4 in a row.  I would like intelligent responses, not smart
>    as* ones.


In 9 out of 10 games and 4 in a row, they've scored less runs than their
opponents.

Places to check:

		a) shitty pitching
		b) shitty hitting
		c) shitty fielding


Remember to post your findings here for all of our mutual edification....


'Saw
    

>		a) shitty pitching
>		b) shitty hitting
>		c) shitty fielding

This reminds me of "Good Morning Vietnam" when Robin Williams is doing
the weather and keeps referring to it as "shitty".

TTom

    
    'Saw's smartass response pretty much nailed it (actually, I don't know
    if the defense has been all that bad or not, but it has slipped since
    around the time Vizquel got hurt).  The Indians' pitching is near the
    bottom of the league, which should surprise absolutely no one
    (shockingly, that spring training-touted miraculous Jack Morris
    comeback proved to be a fraud), but unexpectedly amidst the juiced-ball
    theories that have raised everybody's boats, the Indians' offense has
    been taking on water so far.  I don't expect the mediocre offensive
    production to continue, though.
    
    glenn
    

>    'Saw's smartass response pretty much nailed it (actually, I don't know
>    if the defense has been all that bad or not, but it has slipped since

Was not smartass.....8^)

I just gave a very *succinct* reason why they're doing so shitty....8^)

�Remember to post your findings here for all of our mutual edification....
    
    What my esteemed co-moderator actually meant was please post your
    findings in the Indians topic.  This topic is to discuss the Browns.

|�Remember to post your findings here for all of our mutual edification....
|    
|    What my esteemed co-moderator actually meant was please post your
|    findings in the Indians topic.  This topic is to discuss the Browns.

No, don't tell me what I meant.

Browns, Indians, Crunch (what a lame champeenship 8^)), they're all
the same and interchangable....


Let me give you a hint..... (high Torr values!)


'Saw

    ooops,,  I forgot.   sorry bout that...

      Well theres one Clevland fan that admits they were wrong.
    
    
      The draft has happened and no Hal predictions?
    
      Tim

    I was somewhat pleased with the draft.  I think the Browns defense will
    be strong.  The offense will suck once again ie; no running game, no
    offensive line.  Metcalf will be the only offensive productivity.  The
    only hope the offense has is to concentrate on the running game, which
    would open up the passing game.  I forsee a 8-8 season. and a wild card
    spot.

    
    
    >>Would somebody tell me what is wrong with the Indians, thay have lost 9
    >>of 10 and 4 in a row.
    
    They woke up and fell out of the tree they been living in so far.
    
    JaKe
    

    	How many assistant coaches do the Indians have?  That's the
    key to a successful season.
    
    				/Don

    Now wait a minute I was reprimanded for noting a Indians topic in the
    Browns note file.   Where is the moderater on this one?!
    But the Indians lost again.  Pitching could'nt throw a fit!!!!

    
    	Did anybody else find it somewhat amusing that a Browns fan
    	asked for an intelligent response (like they would understand
    	it if somebody entered it)?  :*)
    
    Claybone

    Hey! Claybone"Head":
     
         I requested intelligent responses in hopes the Anti-Browns folks
    could excercise there already dead brains, I knew you folks could'nt
    reply.  You sir only proved my thoery.
    
                                         Thank you for being stupid!!!!!

      Alright!! Spots/Broncos fan rivalry has started, and no Hal!
    
      Tim

    re: 502
    
    Bronco fans eat horse turds and Elway nuggets!!!
    
    Where is Hal?! I need help here!!!!
    

>    Bronco fans eat horse turds and Elway nuggets!!!

Hey, you're doin fine.

TTom

>         I requested intelligent responses in hopes the Anti-Browns folks
>    could excercise there already dead brains, I knew you folks could'nt
>    reply.  You sir only proved my thoery.
    
>                                         Thank you for being stupid!!!!!


	So, you requested replies from people you knew "could'nt" reply.
	Hmmmm....  

	I guess I must be stupid cuz I can't follow the logic behind
	your "thoery".  

Claybone

    So what my right brain is quicker than my left brain,  thus the letters
    were transposed.  My point remains the same.  Accidental spelling of
    theory is not a topic builder.  Your inept ability to use your head for
    something other than a paper weight is.  It sure is windy in Colorado
    Springs today.  I think it is because "Denver" SUCKS!!!!!!!

      If the Broncos suck,  then how come they own the Browns?  I think the
    Browns have beaten the Broncos once in the last 10 tries.
    
      Tim

    re: 507
    
    2 shay!!  The actual number is 2 wins, which admittedly is dismal and
    basis for my hatred toward the donkeys.  Sometimes it seems
    they(brocos) have a lepricon stuck up thier ass.  But we know the
    Broncos will at least two games against the raiders.  We have thier
    number.  Strange game football!     Where is HAL!!!!!!!!!!?????????

    RE: 508
    
    CORRECTIONS:
    
    (broncos instead of brocos)
    I meant to say lose two games against the Raiders.
    
    thank you
    

      Try 3.  The last 3x the Broncos went to the loser bowl,  they beat
    the Brownies to get there.
    
    
      And now your a faider fan?
    
      Tim

    Not another how many Super Bowl discussion...
    

    Does anyone know where HAL is???  Would like his opinion on this years
    draft and free agent signings thus far!!!!!
    

>
>    Does anyone know where HAL is???  Would like his opinion on this years
>    draft and free agent signings thus far!!!!!
>    

Let me save you some time.  

Dig back through some old notes, and find Hal's opinion on previous
draft and free agent signings.  Substitute this years names.  Put a current
time-stamp on it.   Then you'll have Hal's opinion on this year's draft
and free agent signings.

Follow it up with one of Hal's patented notes that says that the Browns
will go 13-3 or 14-2 and you'll pretty much know everything that Hal
has to say on the subject....


hth,
'Saw

    
    	Watch out 'Saw.  He'll ask for a reply from you (previously
    	knowing you can't reply) and then call YOU stupid.
    
    Claybone

>    
>    	Watch out 'Saw.  He'll ask for a reply from you (previously
>    	knowing you can't reply) and then call YOU stupid.
    
Yabbut Claybone, just the phrase "Browns fan" makes it all so clear....


'Saw

    re:514
    
    Grow up Clay"bonehead"!!!!!
    

|   Grow up Clay"bonehead"!!!!!
 
Uhh, has anyone seen this guy and HAL in the same place...

    
      SPORTS needs more folks like Van Meter. This trend towards 
     thoughtful discussion, a lack of flame wars and proper spelling
     and punctuation would cause several of our long since departed
     SPORTSnoters to spin in their electronic graves. I haven't used 
     my SPORTSnotes decoder ring in over six months.

>                           -< Boys in a mans world >-
>
>    re:514
>    
>    Grow up Clay"bonehead"!!!!!

Hey, them's fighting words.

Nobody disses my friend Claybone!


'Saw
    

	re 517

  We were never allowed to go to place like Cleveland. Now I see why!!


 Cadzilla2

  I did get sent to a GE site there once during days as HDA Man, longest weekend
in recorded history. 

    re: 518
    
    Thank you!  I'am happy I could entertain you!  
    
    Still looking for HAL!!
    
    This is the Browns note file.  So, GO DAWGS!!!!
    
    

    Any time a Clevescum team goes into a slide, ala the Injuns
    performance(or lack thereof lasted week), HAL distappears.
    
    Clevescum SUCKS!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    Tommy, RCASO wasn't a Browns fan was he?

    
    	I guess he showed me.
    
    Claybone

    Poor HAL!!!!
    
    Injuns win three in a row and y'all still pick on 'em.
    
    tisk tisk...
    
    

    re: 520
    
    One must understand Cleveland in order to have a good time there.
    
    The first rule of thumb is that a NERD could'nt possibly have a good
    time in Cleveland.  Too blue collar..   If a Nerd such as yourself 
    visits Cleveland with the attitude that it sucks, then it is no wonder
    you could'nt get laid......
    
    Next time you visit beautiful Cleveland try kissing a little as*,
    such as mine.......
    

    
    	Ha!  Jake, I think your "set hidden" record is in serious
    	trouble.
    
    Claybone

    
    >>Next time you visit beautiful Cleveland try kissing a little as*,
    >>such as mine.......
    
    
    That's the problems with you Clevescumites, too many guys wanting to
    kiss each others butts!!!!
    
    I spent a week there one night!!!!
    
    Never again!!
    
    JaKe
    

    re:528
    
    Golly Jake:
    
    I only meant that when you visit Cleveland again and you ask me nicely
    that I would give you a couple of phone numbers to help you have a good
    time.  Might even arrange going to a Browns or Indians game while your
    there.  BOY! touchy touchy!
    
    GOSH this is fun!
    
    Where the HELL is HAL!!!
    

    
    >>Where the HELL is HAL!!!
    
    Realigning his satelite dish to see Bernice's every move this year!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    I hate to disappoint a fellow Browns fan, but I really feel Bernie was
    and is grossly over-rated.  First; thinking back to the receivers he
    had to throw to, they were great! ie: Slaughter, Langhorne, and
    Brennan.  All Bernie had to do was to get the ball in the general
    direction and these guys would come down with it, that is if it wasnt
    knocked down at the line of scrimmage.  I'am more upset about the loss of
    the receivers than I'am the loss of Bernie.  I wish I knew how many
    passes Bernie had knocked down at the line of scrimmage, it has to be
    a NFL record.  A true Browns fan would recognize that Bernie had a
    staff that made him look good.  I was convinced for awhile.  I saw the
    light, I feel Bill B. will get the job done.   We will be in the
    playoffs this year!!
    
    Go DAWGS!!!   WOOF!!!   WOOF!!!
    

    re.531
    Good QB's and good receivers go hand in hand.
    
    No qb becomes GREAT without better than average receivers, and visa
    versa.
    
    Take the STEELERS last year(please)...O'Donnell had a good year, but
    would've had a GREAT year had the receivers not been dropping passes at
    almost the same rate at which they caught them.
    
    But, I think yer right, BERNICE SUCKS!!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    
    	Enough is enough!!!!!
    
    	Why blame Bernie for the teams failure the last few years???  There
    	was obviously many other problems with the team.  For one, how can
    	anyone throw a pass with the defense comming at you like they had
    	an invitation?  For two, as was said earlier, receivers, the only
    	one the Browns have had is Jackson and he had a problem holding 
    	onto the ball when he first joined the club.  Then there was the
    	running game problem, can't blame the running backs, what happened
    	to the blocking???  Then last but not least, there was the play
    	calling.  This is the reason Bernie got the boot, he was fed up
    	with the play calls and deceided to call his own...not at the line,
    	but in the huddle....Remember???  
    
    	BB has had his problems but I will have to say he has made some 
    	good draft choices over the years with the exception of Ed King.
    	Lots better drafter than Marty could have ever thought of being!
    
    	This years draft.....I think I already wrote a note on this....
    	in one word....OUTSTANDING!  I think they lucked out with the 
    	cornerback they got and then to get the widereceiver at the end
    	of the first round.  
    
    	I read an artical about JJ of Dallas screwing up a trade with Alvin
    	Harper for the Browns #9 pick.  It worked out better for the
    	Browns!
    
    	The Browns also picked up one great guy through free agency this 
    	year....can't remember his name though, it was a tight end...a
    	blocking tight end!  We really needed that!!!  Look for a lots
    	better running game with it in turn opening up the passing game.
    	
    	The defense will surely be improved but with the loss of Mike
    	Johnson one can only hope the youngsters on the team can pick up
    	the slack.  From what I see of the Browns defense, the other guys
    	on the team could surely fill in nicely.  The Browns also picked
    	up two other cornerbacks in free agency.  Do you think the Browns
    	had a problem last year covering receivers???  You bet!  Not this
    	year though.  Lets just hope the Browns can sign Jerry Ball, who
    	really wants to play for the DAWGS.  Also lets hope that Pepper
    	Johnson signs.  If the Browns do sign these guys, there will be 
    	no question they will make the playoffs this year.
    
    	The Oilers have surely taken a turn for the worse and the Bengles
    	have gotten better but not good enough to contend.  The Squeelers
    	will be the only problem.  I think the Browns have to win the 
    	division to make the playoffs this year.  I don't believe they can
    	get a wild card spot...I would be surprised.  
    
    	Nice to have another Browns fan in this note.  But HEY!!!!  DON'T
    	BLAME BERNIE!!!	 He sent me another birthday card this year!
    
    	I'll have to bring in my latest BNI and tell you whats being said
    	in the Rock n Roll capital of the world.
    
    		LIVE BABY LIVE
    
    
    	Go DAWGS!!!
    
    		WOOF!	WOOF!	WOOF!
    
    

 that couldn't have been Hal, he actually said something nice about the
 Steelers........

 ;^)

Oh, thank God HAL's back...

re 526:

  Well I've been called a lot of things but never a NERD!!. Anytime I spend two
night looking for action and the hotel has the only place around, I consider the
place to be a dump. I came from Ford in Detroit before going to GE in Cleveland
and had a better time. The funniest thing about it, was their claim as the Rock
n Roll capitol of the world. What a joke!!!   If you and Hal are representative
of the Cleveland culture, I see were it gets it;s fame.


 Cadzilla2

    re:536
    
    Thank You!!!
    
    Yes!! Cleveland is the Rock -n- Roll capital of the World!  Has been
    for a while now.  Declared, voted on and a Hall of fame built there.
    I don't see the humor in this "fact".  I tell you what is funny, is the
    fact you came from Detroit and thought Cleveland was a dump.  If GOD
    was going to give the world and enema, Detroit is where HE would stick
    the hose.    
    
    The Browns "are" number #1
    Indians and Reds in World Series
    Cavs back Alive in 95....
    
    Thank you for your Support!!!!
    

You guys ought to clean up the imagery just a little bit....

�    Yes!! Cleveland is the Rock -n- Roll capital of the World!  Has been
�    for a while now.  Declared, voted on and a Hall of fame built there.
    
    Built there?  They haven't even broken ground on it yet.

	Well I must still say the week I spent in Detroit/Deerfield Village MI.
was better then the weekend I was stuck in Cleveland. I would not consider
either my favorite or the worst spots that DEC has seen fit to send me to in
support of our products in my 20+ years of Field work. 


 Cadzilla2

    HAL:
    
    It is sure a relief to findly here from you.  I have been pretty beat
    up by the non-Browns noters out there.  They are either knocking the
    Browns or correcting my spelling.  I have a picture in my mind on what
    these gentlemen look like and it is not pretty.  I dont know how you
    have endured their abuse over the years.  But, I guess when someone is
    right as we are in our opinion and choice of sports teams make it a
    little more bearable.  I think you'll be happy to pass out the dishes
    of crow for these buttheads to eat.   I will supply the crying towels.
    
    Browns knock at Super Bowl Door in 94!
    
    GO DAWGS!!!!!!!!!!
    

    
    All we need is fer BigGame to re-appear in the Donks file and we'd
    have two peas in a pod. 
    
    Guns a blazin'
    
    MikeL
    
    
    
    

 speakin' of Gamey, did anyone catch the commerical of Elway flingin' that
 football with the tail on it? Straightest passes he's ever thrown. I'll
 bet he's petitionin' the league right now to switch to it.....

 mike 

re .541:

	I never thought I'd see the day, but it's back and alive:

	RCASO II



arghhhh........
'Saw


PS  Cleveland might make it as far as the Welcome Mat of the Super Bowl

>    Browns or correcting my spelling.  I have a picture in my mind on what
>    these gentlemen look like and it is not pretty.  I dont know how you

	Pretty small picture eh?

	Now, you're the guy who said his right brain was faster than
	his left brain, right?  So, you have two.  I vote that you
	give one of yours to Hal so that you'll both have 1 whole
	brain.  It would be very magnanimous on your part and all
	of ::sports would appreciate it.

Claybone    

There really are literate, intelligent Browns fans in the world.  I think I've
met all three of them.

=Bob=

    re-vanmeter
    
      1)  Just because the R&R Hall of Fame may be built there doesn't make
    it the R&R capital.  We have the Rodeo Hall Of Fame here in Colorado
    Spring,  but we certainly don't consider Colorado Springs the Rodeo
    Capital.
    
      2)  I hope I'm not pretty to you!!
    
      3)  Don't you have a name?
    
    
      Tim

>	Now, you're the guy who said his right brain was faster than
>	his left brain, right?  So, you have two.  I vote that you
>	give one of yours to Hal so that you'll both have 1 whole
>	brain.  It would be very magnanimous on your part and all
>	of ::sports would appreciate it.

Claybone, that's CLASSIC......


'Saw

    re:547
    
    OK!  For the sake of argument.  You tell me then, where! is the R&R
    capital.  You are arguing that it is not Cleveland.  Prove me wrong! or
    shut up!!!!!
    
    Thank you for your support!!!!!!
    
    
    Jeff
    

    I appreciate the slap at Elway!  The Browns will send him straight to
    hell this year......!
    
    
    GO DAWGS!!!!!  WOOF!!!!   WOOF!!!!
    
    Jeff
    

    WHAT IS A BROWN?????????
    
    A BENGAL is a Tiger
    And a fast plane is a JET
    A COWBOY comes from Texas
    And a RAIDER is tough, I bet,
    
    A VIKING is from the frigid north
    SEAHAWKS live by the sea
    All are names of football teams
    Just like they ought to be,
    
    I don't know if it's true
    But I think I've heard a theory
    That Cleveland named it's football team
    After the color of Lake Erie,
    
    BROWN does not describe
    A big, strong athletic man
    It's what's inside the diaper
    of a baby STEELER fan,
    
    The guy who named this football team
    Must be a Cleveland Clown
    Who else would think to call
    A football warrior a BROWN
    
    If I'd been born in Cleveland
    And there my life was spent
    I'd find another team to cheer
    From pure embarassment,
    
    I, myself, have always loved
    The STEELERS "Black and Gold"
    i did when I was very young
    And will when I am old,
    
    Does the BROWN name come from BROWNIES
    The girl scouts we know of sorts
    Or is the name derived
    From the skidmarks in their shorts???
    
    Can anybody tell me
    WHAT THE HELL IS A BROWN???????????????/
    

Well since the roots of Rock started in the south, I can't see how Cleveland
can be the capitol. Memphis comes much closer, with Elvis, Jerry Lee and Chuck
Berry among others coming from that general area. 

  Cadzilla2

    They're trying to find some non-toxic land up there to build it on. 
    But in no way is Clevescum the TRUE CAPITAL, hail, they just offered
    more donero to the developers of the R&R HoF.
    
    JaKe
    

    re: 548
    
    Hey!  Pretty good! Clay"bonehead" youre improving.  Your folks would be
    proud.  With a little practice you may someday advance out of idiot
    status.  The first step of course would be to repent of your sins and
    become a BROWNS fan!.  You would then see the World in a better light
    and you would learn three(3) valuble life lessons; Patience, Humility
    and the ability too crap from empty headed idiots with out blinking
    an eye.......
    
    
    jeff
    

    Oh, cripes sakes, 2 HAL's, our worst nightmare!!!!!!!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    
    >>status.  The first step of course would be to repent of your sins and
    >>become a BROWNS fan!.  You would then see the World in a better light
    >>and you would learn three(3) valuble life lessons; Patience, Humility
    >>and the ability too crap from empty headed idiots with out blinking
    >>an eye.......
    
    You forgot one valuable lesson you have to learn in Clevescum, dealing
    with toxic waste as an everyday occurence, seeing as Clevescum is the
    world's only inhabitated toxic waste/raw sewage dump.
    
    Go back in yer hole, sewer rat!!!
    
    JaKe
    

>Well since the roots of Rock started in the south, I can't see how Cleveland
>can be the capitol. Memphis comes much closer, with Elvis, Jerry Lee and Chuck
>Berry among others coming from that general area. 

Can't forget the likes of Carl Perkins either.....

    
    	OK.  <Shazam!>  I'm a Browns fan.  Now I'm at idiot status!
    	Please give me mega doses of humility.  I need it because 
    	we've been humiliated so badly by the Broncos.
    
    Stupid

>    
>    	OK.  <Shazam!>  I'm a Browns fan.  Now I'm at idiot status!
>    	Please give me mega doses of humility.  I need it because 
>    	we've been humiliated so badly by the Broncos.
>    
>    Stupid

Snap out of it Claybone!

Man, idiocy is catching....  I mean, I hate the Broncos, but the Browns,
man, the Browns... whoa... how low can you go.....


'Saw

    Detriot (tm) >> Cleveland:
    
    Detriot: No place for wimps
    Cleveland: No place for humans...
    

>    Cleveland: No place for humans...


The Land of Cleves.  If it was the Land of Cleavage, I could get into
that.  Unfortunately no one around here ever heard of a cleve....


'Saw    

    
    Re: Browns
    
    FWIW, I think they had a decent draft.  However, Vinnie & Rypien aren't
    going to lead a team anywhere.  Best case, the defense (particularly
    the secondary) gels, and the Browns make the playoffs.  I still
    want to see Belichek fired, even if that happens.
    
    Re: R&R Hall of Fame
    
    The key claim for Cleveland, at least that I'm aware of, is that
    a DJ (Bill F-something), working in Cleveland at the time, coined
    the phrase Rock and Roll.  There have been some groups to come
    out of Cleveland, but not many of any note (Raspberries come to
    mind).
    
    BTW, I believe they have broken ground.
    
    Re: Cleveland Jokes
    
    Watching a bit of Mr. Baseball last night, I had the chance to see
    yet another derogatory reference to Cleveland.  Has a negative
    impression of the city become so ingrained into American culture
    that no amount of change (and IMHO it's clear that the city has
    improved in recent years) will change public opinion?
    
    Joe (probably about to regret opening his mouth during this string...)

    RE: 551
    
    Wow! Jake, I am speechless, I dont know what to say.  Your poem was
    heart felt.  It is a work of art.  I am honored to have been able to
    read it.  Tell me!  You are really a BROWNS fan arent ya!  I mean after
    all you are named after a DAWG!.  I even heard a song about ya! FEED
    JAKE!  Good tune.  But all kidding aside,  Great! poem.
    
    jeff
    

re: .562

You see - a literate Browns fan.  In ::SPROTS no less.

    
    
    >>Re: Browns
    
    >>FWIW, I think they had a decent draft.
    
    Now if yer talking Newcastle Brown (Ale), that's a good draft.  I'd be
    suspicious of any brew coming from Clevescum as it'd probably be
    Cuyahoga River water, and that stuff is flammable.
    
    >>The key claim for Cleveland, at least that I'm aware of, is that
    >>a DJ (Bill F-something), working in Cleveland at the time, coined
    >>the phrase Rock and Roll.  There have been some groups to come
    >>out of Cleveland, but not many of any note (Raspberries come to
    >>mind).
    
    The Michael Stanley Band was another short lived not too great band
    from Clevescum.
    
    >>BTW, I believe they have broken ground.
    
    More accurately, "broken sludge" fer Clevescum...and the wimmens(term
    used loosely) are continuing to break wind.
    
    >>Re: Cleveland Jokes
    
    Clevescum IS a joke.
    
    JaKe
    
    

    
    >>read it.  Tell me!  You are really a BROWNS fan arent ya!  I mean after
    >>all you are named after a DAWG!.  I even heard a song about ya! FEED
    >>JAKE!  Good tune.  But all kidding aside,  Great! poem.
    
    Nope not a Brown(spot)s(tm) fan at all, and the name similarity with
    the song is just a co-ink-eee-dink.
    
    Although, when I see a map of OHIO, I do squat and crap on Clevescum.
    
    Re the poem, unfortunately, I din't compose it, just passed it on.
    
    JaKe
    

    I'll interperate an old Cleveland word into the Scots mother tongue:
    
    	Browns  =  Sad act
    
    What more can I say except have a little sympathy for us Miami fans
    having the highest paid failure QB as a back-up this season.
    
    Davie.

�    Now if yer talking Newcastle Brown (Ale), that's a good draft.  I'd be
�    suspicious of any brew coming from Clevescum as it'd probably be
�    Cuyahoga River water, and that stuff is flammable.
    
    That's pretty funny coming from an Iron City man.

    Weel, Iv'e been paitiently waiting backin the backgrround here for
    sumone to say sumthing that sumone cain underdaind that makes sume
    sense about the CLEVLEAND BROWNS, but so far so one has said sumthing
    so I geuss I will.
    Bilichik has asseemlbed a team that nexted year can easily content for
    the AFC titel.  Belechik may not have a greet personality, but he
    cain't be expected to deal wif the press aprioctially and remain treu
    to his players.  Bilechek knows one is greeater than the other.  For
    Beleichik to cowtow to the press would be worng and Bellichek nows
    right frum worng.
    Brigning in Tistenventre to run the offense WEORKED!!!  It will
    agian!!!!  Browns defense is worked, too!!!  Offsne plus
    defnse==CHAPIONSHIONPS!!!!  SO AFC ISS OURS NEXTRED SEEASON!!!!
    
    YOU NOW WOH I AM
    

    
    Re .565
    
>    The Michael Stanley Band was another short lived not too great band
>    from Clevescum.
    
    Didn't think they had enough national noteriety to name, or I would
    have.
    
    Joe

    You heard it here first.  hearyee!  hearyee! hearyee!
    
    BROWNS -N- GIANTS in Super Bowl!!!
    
    BROWNS win it all in a blow out!!!
    
    Boys its a given bet the ranch!!!!
    
    No sense playing the season, may as well go straight to the Super
    Bowl....
    
    
    Jeff